Speaker 1: Hey, I'm good evening. Everyone. Welcome to another money space
Speaker 1: with me, carlu Agra. Of course, on our space we're
Speaker 1: talking money, the economy and finance. We want to take
Speaker 1: those topics socio economy topics, make them easier digestible so
Speaker 1: that way become a better investor and of course a
Speaker 1: better citizen. Clearly, this week we had a different topic
Speaker 1: plan that we had to sort of like talk about
Speaker 1: this topic today because I think it is the most
Speaker 1: important economic story in Nigeria today. We're talking to dango
Speaker 1: tape versus the petroleum unions. All that's if you think
Speaker 1: it's just to the unions, Because what this space is
Speaker 1: going to try to do today is you try to
Speaker 1: perhaps go back and sort of trying to give you
Speaker 1: the listener right an idea of what really is happening
Speaker 1: in the country. Ris regards to Dangota refinery as regards
Speaker 1: to the divorces that I've sort of been ahead of
Speaker 1: that refinery being you know, should we say stumbling block
Speaker 1: as it were. I think if we give a picture,
Speaker 1: a fuller or more complete picture, it equips you, the observer,
Speaker 1: the taxpayer, with more. That's a point through to reach
Speaker 1: an analysis. There's so much on Twitter. There's the Union side,
Speaker 1: there's the Dangloteris side, and they are those in the middle. Right,
Speaker 1: what I want to try to do this evening is
Speaker 1: try to show you at least what's going on. I
Speaker 1: will try to be as fair as possible, but it's
Speaker 1: gonna use that that's out there for everyone to see.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about the Dangoti side. Then we'll talk
Speaker 1: about the Union side, and the Nail side is going
Speaker 1: to be the story per se. Right, we'll try to
Speaker 1: do very balanced. Cast your mind back to last year
Speaker 1: or even before that, Dangote. Even before that, Nigeria had
Speaker 1: a refinery. The first refined nager was built by a
Speaker 1: foreign company called Shell. That's they built that refinery. Then
Speaker 1: Nigeria change the laws, nationalized oil industry and an NPC
Speaker 1: Nigeria National before it was n NC and the NPC
Speaker 1: then built four refiners in Nigeria and reportacles in worry
Speaker 1: in Kaduna. Four refineries, right, and we were all good.
Speaker 1: The refiners all broke down and were not fixed. We
Speaker 1: didn't have to import premium motor spirits, patrol and of
Speaker 1: course diesel ago when we imported at first, it was
Speaker 1: not really much of a problem because the price of
Speaker 1: crude oil was so low that the moment subsidized the import.
Speaker 1: It didn't really an effect of the budget. But when
Speaker 1: you fast forward to say the early two thousands, the
Speaker 1: impart of this subsidy i e. The subsidies. When you import,
Speaker 1: Nigeria places a rebutary price on how much it details
Speaker 1: gascline products. So for instance, Nigria can say the price
Speaker 1: of retail gasoling is going to be fifteen ira. If
Speaker 1: we were important at ten eerra, there's no subsidy. But
Speaker 1: once the price of the import exceeded fifteen era, which
Speaker 1: was driven by the price of crude oil, then of
Speaker 1: course we then have to pay a subsidy. So the
Speaker 1: price of crude oil and imports rose to sixteen er
Speaker 1: and the retail price was pegged at fifteen ra. That
Speaker 1: meant that Niger had to subsidize with ten ra, and
Speaker 1: we've been doing this for years. When you get to
Speaker 1: the two thousands, you then get tosition where the cost
Speaker 1: of the subsidy, the cost of the subsidy was now
Speaker 1: more than what Niger was spending on health and education
Speaker 1: combined combined. So something had to give. So we had
Speaker 1: to take away the subsidy. But even if you remove
Speaker 1: the subsidy, unless you refined locally to cut down those costs.
Speaker 1: You are thinking at the mercy of the international parts
Speaker 1: of crude oil and the eging rate. So Niger had
Speaker 1: issued about thirty eight refinery licenses to everyone to build
Speaker 1: a refinery. No one had. Dangote ten or fifteen years
Speaker 1: ago decided to build a petule refinery in Nigeria and
Speaker 1: it was an integral refinery, so not just to refine
Speaker 1: petroleum but also petrochemicals you reapertilize that were using gas
Speaker 1: and all that. That's a long term project and from
Speaker 1: that date he started, it's been issued. I would categoriarly
Speaker 1: state that the Central Bank of Nigeria under God and
Speaker 1: the Mephiel paid the key role in the suck of
Speaker 1: the refinery that Dangote had today by giving him forests.
Speaker 1: Back then, there was no forests to give anybody. But
Speaker 1: the Methane was like, well, I'm going to make this
Speaker 1: refinery a priority project. We're going to give you for
Speaker 1: ESTs to build this because when you build this refinery,
Speaker 1: you're going to pay us back by your exports of
Speaker 1: crude oil. Which is exactly what's happening today. So Dangote
Speaker 1: eventually got the refinery built, it was commissioned. Is the
Speaker 1: largest in Nigeria, the largest in Africa, things second largest.
Speaker 1: You look at Subahan Africa and even the snowball. I
Speaker 1: think the ones in India are larger. Apart from that,
Speaker 1: is that firing, so that refinery is working. What has
Speaker 1: the refunity done for Nigeria? You look at your naira.
Speaker 1: We've been going back and forth on Twitter over the
Speaker 1: nira valuation. The narror is getting stronger. Why is it
Speaker 1: getting stronger? There is less demand for dollars. Why is
Speaker 1: a less demand for dollars? Because there's less demand for
Speaker 1: to import the largest important nine gelgies pms. Because Dangote
Speaker 1: is importantly crude all himself refining to do PMS locally,
Speaker 1: there's less demand to import pms. Nigeria has three main imports,
Speaker 1: PMS and food. We've reduced the pms, import pms as
Speaker 1: pmis agu and all that with don go to refine it,
Speaker 1: not just have reduced it. We're exported. So the strength
Speaker 1: of your naralius to today is partially because what Dangota
Speaker 1: is doing on the export market side. Number two, we're
Speaker 1: exporting you refertilized that you look at the the with
Speaker 1: the strength of your non oil exports, there's an argument
Speaker 1: if we should tempt your rear fertilizer as non oil.
Speaker 1: But when you hear them say we've met our target
Speaker 1: with non oil, they are referring to your real fertilizers
Speaker 1: element petrochemical. So it's a dango TIS side as well
Speaker 1: that is exporting this petrochemical as also making your norm
Speaker 1: oil god. So your your NYRA is stronger because now
Speaker 1: we have a refinery locally. Your non US has gone
Speaker 1: on because I have refinery locally that does not come
Speaker 1: to specifically what has dangle you tried to do that
Speaker 1: it has a standalone refinery. If you do a refinery
Speaker 1: anywhere in the world, you simply have guys drive to
Speaker 1: your refineries and buy the goods in bulk. So you,
Speaker 1: as a fuel fuel station can say you want a truck.
Speaker 1: You don't own the truck, you own the station. A
Speaker 1: truck will come to the refinery, take gas, go to
Speaker 1: your station and keep your gas to sell. So three folks,
Speaker 1: the refinery, the gas station, and the trucker. But in
Speaker 1: nineteen all these things are all should we say, principalities
Speaker 1: and powers. The truckers are their own powers. If the
Speaker 1: truckers go on strike, your refinery is useless. The guys
Speaker 1: that sell the petrol are also their own principality because
Speaker 1: they have also can agree not to sell your refined products.
Speaker 1: So what Dango to his trick was trying to do
Speaker 1: now was I'm gonna build a refinery. After he built that,
Speaker 1: he then saw that listened. They are issued the distribution
Speaker 1: because this young guy says, hey, we wanted you to
Speaker 1: build a subsidy that the government was supposed to have
Speaker 1: paid them. About this is Dangoti's own side. About one
Speaker 1: point five trillion director says hey, I'm I going to
Speaker 1: pay that subsidy. So he then goes in and imports
Speaker 1: his own about four thousand rights to do to his
Speaker 1: own petrol. What about the guys that are owned this
Speaker 1: first stations Again, I'm talking broadly. Those guys kept on
Speaker 1: important pms even though we have a refinery in Nigeria.
Speaker 1: So if you back up, what do you see this Nigeria?
Speaker 1: This nation has said we want to conserve the foid extreena,
Speaker 1: we have want to make it and Ira go up
Speaker 1: in price. We've now built a refinery locally in Nigeria
Speaker 1: that allows us to remove PMS imports, which were the
Speaker 1: largest components of our imports come to Naira. We also
Speaker 1: supported Dangot in Dangot, we're going to sell you this
Speaker 1: crude oil in Nigeria in Naira. Why in Iraq? Because
Speaker 1: we wanted Dangote to getting that cruel in ira and
Speaker 1: of course sell locally in Naira. Why so the cost
Speaker 1: to you will come down. So I joined as to
Speaker 1: that Induga refinery is operational, the cost of every Nigerian
Speaker 1: will come down. That's number two what we dinos, So
Speaker 1: we give him four x, we give him the crewel
Speaker 1: in nira And were also invested in Dangota Refining. Where
Speaker 1: when we any Peace Wilos to take twenty percent share
Speaker 1: in Dangota Refining because was that strategic? So an Episo
Speaker 1: percent then will sell the Dangote oil in nira Then
Speaker 1: of course will also give Dangote dollars to also build
Speaker 1: a refinery. But what's the reality. An Episo could not
Speaker 1: pay twenty percent, They could only pay seven percent. Number two,
Speaker 1: Dangote is paying for the crude oil but he is
Speaker 1: pain in dollars, not just in dollars. He is paying
Speaker 1: to ten parties. So that's not buying crude oil directly.
Speaker 1: He's buying from the folks that have already put oil
Speaker 1: from Nigeria at a premium. That's number two, right, So
Speaker 1: all these costs have added back to Dangote's cost Number three.
Speaker 2: Go back.
Speaker 1: Now we're going to start Previously last year, the government's regulator,
Speaker 1: the government's regulator came out and said Dangote was sending
Speaker 1: substandard pms and diesel. This is the government's regulator, Nadian
Speaker 1: Adam belonging right. Regulator came out and said it and
Speaker 1: then had to do tests. You should at he's the
Speaker 1: years old had very very low impurities At the House
Speaker 1: of Assembly. Guys also went there as well, and the
Speaker 1: dad the exercise and had they confirmed years thanks to
Speaker 1: us selling diesel that was at the high European I
Speaker 1: think it was Euro five standards and all that fantastic.
Speaker 1: After we crossed that ladder, what happened next We had
Speaker 1: the local object as the petroleum marketers saying that they
Speaker 1: want to keep on importing pms because it was cheaper
Speaker 1: to import pms and you guys would know. The first
Speaker 1: time really we've seen Nigeria when the prices of crude
Speaker 1: of PMS has gone down was when we had the
Speaker 1: competition between Dangote and the local guys that sell PMS.
Speaker 1: So there was this competition that went on that what
Speaker 1: would do the surprise, they would reduce their prize. But
Speaker 1: what was curious to me was that the local guys
Speaker 1: were still able to get dollars to import PMS. This
Speaker 1: is national said that we want to sort of stop
Speaker 1: import and we have the refinery, but the local PMS
Speaker 1: guys were still getting dollars. Remember this is a country
Speaker 1: that stopped the imports of rice or stop selling dollars
Speaker 1: to rise important because we want to provide a subsidy
Speaker 1: to local farmers. We closed our borders right, but we
Speaker 1: suddenly changed and allowed local importers to import PMS even
Speaker 1: though we had the largest refinery in Nigeria. So number one,
Speaker 1: the regulator said his products were substandard. Number two, he
Speaker 1: was openly being competed against by ninetels that did not
Speaker 1: have a refinery. There is only one functional large scale
Speaker 1: of fine Nigia, apart from the one in with the
Speaker 1: one in Niger delta that does diesel, and that's not
Speaker 1: one in Emo state. But the largest refuney by skill
Speaker 1: is down to refinery. But you had folks without refineries
Speaker 1: being able to get dollars to import payers to the country.
Speaker 1: The same country as said we want to stop the
Speaker 1: value of the denial of falling. See ben is saying
Speaker 1: we want to stop there. The development are phoning so
Speaker 1: much that the CDM was selling dollars to BCY operators
Speaker 1: at a below market price to keep the dollar low
Speaker 1: and error up. The same nation was also giving dollars
Speaker 1: to importers of pms when we had the refinery. Then
Speaker 1: we crossed that stage and we're now in this new
Speaker 1: stage about if you have a union. We were told
Speaker 1: that if Dangote has a union and tries to truck
Speaker 1: out his product directly to the explainations, he would cost
Speaker 1: job losses, which doesn't really make enough sense because if
Speaker 1: you look if it's important trucks, there are six folks
Speaker 1: per truck. He's creating jobs right there. Immediately. There were
Speaker 1: now back to this current issue about the union, saying
Speaker 1: that workers are wanted to join a union, which is
Speaker 1: their right to join the union. You cannot stop anybody
Speaker 1: in from joining the union that the workers joined a
Speaker 1: union and then go to them fired those workers union.
Speaker 1: Hence this union has now gone nuclear, has said are
Speaker 1: going to stop the sale of cruder to Dangot, They're
Speaker 1: going to block the entrances. They're going to stop the
Speaker 1: flow of crude l to Dangle refinery. That's where we are.
Speaker 1: It's important. So I'm giving you guys the background. What
Speaker 1: I was trying to show is this, this union's issue
Speaker 1: is the latest in a series of counter narratives in
Speaker 1: the nigen economy. We have gone from we need a
Speaker 1: refinery in Nigeria to stop imports. We then't got the refinery.
Speaker 1: When we got the refinery, the government's own regulator quota
Speaker 1: refinery has substanal products. It didn't go to tell the refinery, hey,
Speaker 1: you have stoptal products, can you make it better know?
Speaker 1: It published its findings, the government's own regulator. Then we
Speaker 1: have the government selling dollars because in Nigera you cannot
Speaker 1: buy dollars from the banks unless the Central Bank say so.
Speaker 1: We sat on the nephield where if you are important,
Speaker 1: rise and forty four items to see if there will
Speaker 1: cut you off. You couldn't go trade in the bank
Speaker 1: to import rise. But now we have folks importing PMS
Speaker 1: into the country even though we have a refinery. And
Speaker 1: then pc is supposed to buy twenty percent of donatory refinery.
Speaker 1: They could not buy twenty percent. That was a loss
Speaker 1: of finances of that but they meaning had to go
Speaker 1: borrow debt. It's that twenty percent equity couldn't buy seven percent.
Speaker 1: Anyde is supposed to sell then go to crude oil
Speaker 1: in Naira. If that happened, Dinotia has complained that it's
Speaker 1: going to buy dot that is buying crude oil in
Speaker 1: Nigeria had premium pride cresses buying from a tech party supplier.
Speaker 1: These are the roadblocks the Nigeria has said the counter
Speaker 1: narratives where we want these investments in FDI, we want
Speaker 1: lower imports. But when we do get the imports, there
Speaker 1: are now being a series I don't want to say
Speaker 1: their planned, but just a ruling series of issues of
Speaker 1: this investment fifteen billion. You know, ideare you to go
Speaker 1: across the world, across the world and count on in
Speaker 1: one hand any single investment you can find that is
Speaker 1: fifteen billion, You will find one. You'll find too. How
Speaker 1: many investments across the world can you find at fifteen billion?
Speaker 1: How many? But we have one in nineteen not just
Speaker 1: done by your foreigner, but by ounce On and then
Speaker 1: we have all the issues. So I don't think my
Speaker 1: idea that I always says Dangot refinery versus petroleum billions,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's unions. I think it's the same
Speaker 1: folks that from the very start had said bad diesel
Speaker 1: or we're not I'm not going to sell you crude oil.
Speaker 1: I think it's the same spirit that is still around
Speaker 1: that have not been exercised. Why is it important to
Speaker 1: you now? Why is this space important to you? Why
Speaker 1: should you worry about what done and you knows are doing? Guys,
Speaker 1: in all sincerity, if we do not solve this issue out,
Speaker 1: then Narra is going to lose value. It's very simple.
Speaker 1: It's as clear as they If we do not sort
Speaker 1: out Dangote you know issue, then Narra is going to
Speaker 1: lose value. You will see, it's very very simple because
Speaker 1: if we cannot export non oil that Dangote is doing,
Speaker 1: that it's gonna lose value. That's number one. Number two,
Speaker 1: it sends a bad message. Naila has to not recovered
Speaker 1: from reading emptyn and charging etient exhabitant prices. Emptying was
Speaker 1: right or wrong, it's not the issue, but look at
Speaker 1: the cost we put on them. Manifeigners read that whole
Speaker 1: said listen, this is the nation that is looking more
Speaker 1: revenues than long tempo revens, a more short term and
Speaker 1: long term growth of the economy and want to paying
Speaker 1: for it to today. So let's talk about this. I know,
Speaker 1: if you guys are here, this is my own view.
Speaker 1: Feel pretty, there's agreed. Lots of folks are listening in.
Speaker 1: But I just think just to end that, if Dan
Speaker 1: Goute had come, or let's just say Warren Buffett had
Speaker 1: companied you and said, hey, Nigeria in the year he
Speaker 1: came to here next nineteen nine, I'm going to invest
Speaker 1: fifteen billion in Nigeria to build you get a refinery
Speaker 1: and everything. We're asking for twenty five he said, don't
Speaker 1: ask forty nine eighty nine. Do you think that YO
Speaker 1: would have said yes or no to mister Warren Buffett.
Speaker 1: I mean, think about it, fifteen big. It's just the refinery,
Speaker 1: not about the petrop chemical, not about the trucks. Lit
Speaker 1: You've got the Floorster.
Speaker 3: Cal Grillilan very spot on analy This is early aligned
Speaker 3: with most of your views and thanks for introduction. It's
Speaker 3: quite unportiate that this dis question that takes my head
Speaker 3: from the highest level. And yes, you know what I
Speaker 3: have compared up being good in not being good because
Speaker 3: of the precorous situation refragiating in that you are an
Speaker 3: economy and where that put is. But I just want
Speaker 3: to be give market and why they are that you are.
Speaker 3: You should stick with one eye and so first of all,
Speaker 3: you need to understand that the roughly took billows in
Speaker 3: terms for tank putting to set up time Ferray. At
Speaker 3: some point thee our company disappointed him. They couldn't fulfill
Speaker 3: their applications in terms of quity financing.
Speaker 2: And also so the politics and all that came into play.
Speaker 3: Yes, the Finery card has given the introduction, but I
Speaker 3: want as to look at the other dimensions you.
Speaker 2: Are looking at.
Speaker 3: First, Dancot is still indebted in bidners. He's doing the
Speaker 3: Chinese back some creditors. You need to understand that said,
Speaker 3: even I had to disclose that if this project was
Speaker 3: not successful, all these.
Speaker 2: Assets will be taken away from him. So you need
Speaker 2: to understand what he had to put him for this
Speaker 2: two work.
Speaker 3: Also, you have to look at the list of the
Speaker 3: Nigeria and the economic which can highlighted that is really
Speaker 3: economy to reality to most of our avoid investments for.
Speaker 2: Exchange comes from Coudo. But then I missed a change
Speaker 2: with the openings of Danko de Fera. And you know,
Speaker 2: I think the big enemy year is not paersonal pain.
Speaker 2: But that's why I came to kind of specier. I
Speaker 2: just wanted to highlight because I think it's a just tructure.
Speaker 2: I didn't really see them as the real enemy. I
Speaker 2: don't diversity because and I'll tell you why.
Speaker 3: If you look at it, the image in the global
Speaker 3: marketing has just dropped it. And that is why I
Speaker 3: think the biggest enemies are the powers. We are not
Speaker 3: talking about this free market expert and these importance these muntis,
Speaker 3: because if you look at way back at the problems
Speaker 3: placing the your state with FIST.
Speaker 2: At one point in.
Speaker 3: When the budget came to power, he had to beg
Speaker 3: Shield to take up the statrifiers or I don't at
Speaker 3: the discount. And the reason was simple because he felt
Speaker 3: that this body original orders.
Speaker 2: You know, the nationalization and inside that.
Speaker 3: But those guys give reasons and they said to the
Speaker 3: major things that I will never forget.
Speaker 2: They said, the first thing was that that your stitlifiers
Speaker 2: were small. The second thing was that this the energy
Speaker 2: complexity in the Townshill sector was full of corruption and
Speaker 2: DI didn't want to get involved. And they spoke about
Speaker 2: how the margins and the finery business is very thing.
Speaker 3: In fact, I was very critical web that Goody was
Speaker 3: about to build the city or fifty thousands, because I
Speaker 3: was like, do want big players? Because I look at
Speaker 3: is from stocks. You know, when you un invest in extor,
Speaker 3: you look at the fact that the imagines in that business,
Speaker 3: in the very business.
Speaker 2: Is not attractive.
Speaker 3: Most of the juicy comes from the Austria and the
Speaker 3: petrochemicals with which they do.
Speaker 2: It in different.
Speaker 3: With different times idea coming to Newbus again. So I
Speaker 3: felt when I was down, and so it's really very
Speaker 3: emotional for me the fact that we tend to give
Speaker 3: people on de grades when the bigger events. I feel
Speaker 3: that God is the man of the year in terms
Speaker 3: of the FTX market, I feel down goods and the man.
Speaker 2: Of the year in terms of how the danger and
Speaker 2: economy afternoon.
Speaker 3: Yes, the President brought in the fiscal reforms without substy,
Speaker 3: but if we had no refined capacity, still be dancing
Speaker 3: with playing plants.
Speaker 2: And so they invested interest. Look doubt about that.
Speaker 3: And my concern with Dan Goode is that also is
Speaker 3: playing so much with is using because.
Speaker 2: The average propolic is on the side. But my fil
Speaker 2: for Dankode is that he also has his own shortcomings too.
Speaker 2: He's not the same. Yeah, we we reusy much, you know,
Speaker 2: because that the lot of people are complaining, how can
Speaker 2: you be working? Fai are? You know?
Speaker 3: Because I've spoken too many to call their work as
Speaker 3: I try to because I work because I try to
Speaker 3: get what people have.
Speaker 2: They say, what said I want to stay said so
Speaker 2: for me to really present it to judge. So from
Speaker 2: my own judgment, I feel that nobody is perfect the
Speaker 2: adversary interests and.
Speaker 3: I think the pas the president because he has theministry
Speaker 3: and everybody. I have not seen his story econic story
Speaker 3: taking so much certain stage in the world like this
Speaker 3: Cancote issue.
Speaker 2: So I feel that before he gets out of our canoe,
Speaker 2: I feel that the president should really meet with the
Speaker 2: major stake coulder. I understand that things are going be
Speaker 2: neat because I feel that it's too slow. And before
Speaker 2: I dropped the mic, I also want us to look
Speaker 2: at the fact.
Speaker 3: That you if you look at what disappled in South
Speaker 3: Africa or was disappled in Europe, you understand that it's
Speaker 3: non players saying, lookay, which would worry about? We need
Speaker 3: to also look at that man has cheated and I
Speaker 3: miss he has taken the breakfast from many players.
Speaker 2: And if we fight the wrong person get the trouble.
Speaker 3: So I think at back in the unions, I think
Speaker 3: the unions are contain the fact that they really want.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's fair for you to understand what unions are
Speaker 2: asking for.
Speaker 3: If you look at it across the ladder, that could
Speaker 3: the employees that want to disappear in that in that industry,
Speaker 3: look about that des by the fact that there which
Speaker 3: is much higher than the an and what some of
Speaker 3: them hasting much is not out of hands.
Speaker 2: Let's be honest, you work in that sense. Giving those
Speaker 2: two require some form of vissiance, some sidti.
Speaker 3: However, you know, the issue has been these guys have
Speaker 3: been really at the neck of the Nigerian.
Speaker 2: Economy for too long. We've not seen there too.
Speaker 3: Much impute when staaterifiers are depleted, you know, belouse of
Speaker 3: the has they spend some of them are many passing
Speaker 3: this association and they not beyond the accountable. You know,
Speaker 3: we've seen how probublic they of Nigeria situation with which
Speaker 3: party is brought about energy, you know. So before I
Speaker 3: allow a lot of other people to speak, and I
Speaker 3: think for me, what we missed the difference right now
Speaker 3: is what the most powerful when you heard those because
Speaker 3: he has made this in such a way that everybody
Speaker 3: has as to him because we don't have.
Speaker 2: The federal is that we have is second according to
Speaker 2: the accum so all the stable. So for me, I think,
Speaker 2: what iss you do two things before immediate?
Speaker 3: First, uh, he needs to bring a mistakeholders. I don't
Speaker 3: think what will said with this pass is powerful for
Speaker 3: those that I think pears.
Speaker 2: Because you can't sack these people. Some of these guys
Speaker 2: working cheven share them. I think we need to be rational.
Speaker 3: Some of these guys have been vegers in the industry.
Speaker 3: But you can't play your carsive and rest.
Speaker 2: But so I support the publicly. I'm not here for
Speaker 2: people to.
Speaker 3: Be sanction and arrested or yield I also feel that
Speaker 3: has to be compromises. He has to restate because you
Speaker 3: know the US be concern the act of several times,
Speaker 3: because I read a p reports which the catastic plix
Speaker 3: in refiery and the form of maintenance away which at
Speaker 3: some point.
Speaker 2: And talk about. So that's supple that it is really.
Speaker 1: Let me great over you. Let me just say this right,
Speaker 1: every issue you have listed Dangote's workers and all that
Speaker 1: that can result in a meeting over launch. They're not
Speaker 1: talking about strategic issues like the pricing of petillium products
Speaker 1: or that there's an environmental issue. These are issues. Oh
Speaker 1: you sacked the worker for union, there's a process for that.
Speaker 1: Nijers have gone through unions before. Like you've highlighted, why
Speaker 1: is it that the Nigerian government can sit down and
Speaker 1: a strategic asset to be cut off from getting crude
Speaker 1: oil because it's going to affect the dollar, it's going
Speaker 1: to affect the economy, it's going to affect the experts
Speaker 1: on non oil. But the Nigerian government has not said
Speaker 1: a word and unions have bound to a private company
Speaker 1: have sort of if we believe in these reports, have
Speaker 1: shut it down. If you didn't answer that don't that
Speaker 1: question isn't an answer if you go back to the
Speaker 1: first point I need the first person. The first person
Speaker 1: to come out against Dangote was the regulator, the federal
Speaker 1: regulator that came out as said that product were substantid substandard.
Speaker 1: So after I have approved, if you are walking and
Speaker 1: a bed whistles and it so hits your head, the
Speaker 1: next time the bed whistoles, you bend down. So I'm
Speaker 1: just saying that perhaps this man is seeing that things
Speaker 1: are happening. You've already had given us a tread to pull. Yeah,
Speaker 1: things happening. You share the tweet around in the wear
Speaker 1: diagnota is affecting the diesel output in Europe. Dangots from
Speaker 1: Nigeria and people are losing their shirt in Europe because
Speaker 1: Dangote is working. Why allow such an asset? Then it
Speaker 1: grates over what a union said, who was not that
Speaker 1: something I can call emitting and over launch can be
Speaker 1: agreed that allow it to get to this level limited.
Speaker 3: Because physical edits are compromised. You know, I suppose with
Speaker 3: parents that have you ever had Because I look at America,
Speaker 3: for example, look at the French, look at the matter house.
Speaker 2: You see that at some point it's colalys in.
Speaker 3: Their bureaucratic processes, and that's because they have a very
Speaker 3: strong can't integers.
Speaker 2: It just you know, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm not an inteigence of examples. You know, when you
Speaker 3: look at from your economic understanding, you see that the
Speaker 3: interesting that you is very it's very tough to be
Speaker 3: successful business by nager because you are fighting powerful vested interest.
Speaker 2: It's not just no inventions.
Speaker 3: I feel that, yes we have some compromise plasm, but
Speaker 3: that's not really the major edite ticulties facially, because I'll
Speaker 3: tell you for free, when you look at the export
Speaker 3: capacity as cularly from the Dutch bas with finaries, I
Speaker 3: look at the latest data from MPs in trade.
Speaker 2: You see that DS have changed. There was the time
Speaker 2: that it was the biggest.
Speaker 3: Important for Nigeria, uh after China, and that was because
Speaker 3: of Petrue.
Speaker 2: Now you see danas is changing. On Land is not
Speaker 2: really there again.
Speaker 3: Now we look at the latest data and Spain was
Speaker 3: the major So the entire things have gone really has
Speaker 3: really changed.
Speaker 2: The namies and these players haveted interest. You know, they're
Speaker 2: not gonna come in without the fact. But the problem
Speaker 2: is that the guys vulnerable don't have the strong places them.
Speaker 2: Yet we are quite divided.
Speaker 4: So the business, the business side, the Trump is doing,
Speaker 4: we wo when he had any time he goes to
Speaker 4: the UK and then goes through a powerful countries, he
Speaker 4: takes his business class way.
Speaker 2: There's this political covering. We don't really have that inn
Speaker 2: to be honest, and you know it's it's.
Speaker 3: Coming up, yes, but we don't really have that. So
Speaker 3: there's no political cover for these big players. If could
Speaker 3: it was an American were you know what the job
Speaker 3: I've done when Google was fine?
Speaker 5: You know, so do you pay?
Speaker 2: You could see what it.
Speaker 3: Says with different times checking them necessity, I'm going to
Speaker 3: be really staries on.
Speaker 2: The wine and you know, exports and you could see.
Speaker 2: So we don't really have that. Pip players, the delights
Speaker 2: of living, delights of down with the likes of these
Speaker 2: guys are particually on their own. So it wake up
Speaker 2: within our system that there's us.
Speaker 6: See, if you really want to have the successful business economy,
Speaker 6: we also we need to have restrain the political and
Speaker 6: take the platform because.
Speaker 2: Right now we don't even know whether I would don.
Speaker 3: The saying or whether it is really sabotage because the
Speaker 3: truth of the matter is that it's sabotage and that
Speaker 3: if you hear that in pleas thats us government to
Speaker 3: take it up the very news about that. So these
Speaker 3: are things we also need to ask questions because we
Speaker 3: we also need to understand what are the podcasts are thinking?
Speaker 2: What is the secure to this time? Because all the
Speaker 2: I work we look at because of the step.
Speaker 3: Who can I readily reported it as it is by
Speaker 3: over a hundreds.
Speaker 2: Trust the sisters that it has implication on the middle
Speaker 2: class that has we can disposable.
Speaker 1: And come, okay, let's go to a raffingdo raffingdo if
Speaker 1: there's way only they don't go with pleace hanger and
Speaker 1: we're gonna call you again. Raffindo, how are you doing?
Speaker 1: We're talking about you were talking the down tap? This
Speaker 1: is the union. What's your take?
Speaker 2: Okay? Believing and believe in everyone.
Speaker 7: I think the issue here has to do with three
Speaker 7: factors are lighted and versus the appreciate the effort and
Speaker 7: the tennacity that would take bring simpler economic And I'll
Speaker 7: give you a good example. The early two thousand, Nigeria's
Speaker 7: cement sector was vitually dead and the only player there
Speaker 7: was u Circle who was later inherited by that fact
Speaker 7: because of what dependent on importation and this man came along,
Speaker 7: you know, disrupted the sector. You will prove that Nigeria
Speaker 7: having the cement deposit, Africa has no business importancity.
Speaker 8: And you could see the tenacity.
Speaker 2: It's this kind of what this.
Speaker 8: Kind of what happens.
Speaker 7: So many paganders will use against him, so many frustrations
Speaker 7: and at the end of the day, was able to
Speaker 7: try look at this tenacity that the tennasity he brought
Speaker 7: into that sector as able to make all that sector,
Speaker 7: all the players coming to receptor that due to him,
Speaker 7: Nineta has five cement companies with different parts. That is
Speaker 7: the tennacity of someone who lost a country and what
Speaker 7: he brings and now just opposed.
Speaker 2: It's your finality. We all of us here know that our.
Speaker 7: Finally the museum. I like to use the World Museum.
Speaker 7: They are more like an antiferan zone. For how many
Speaker 7: years nothing was happening? He came me, you know, did
Speaker 7: that same distructor staff just two creatures. Nobody can compare
Speaker 7: the number of Nigerian was created when Niger was important,
Speaker 7: the number of jobs now Nigeria has for Niaga producing.
Speaker 7: We cannot compare the same as we are importing fearments
Speaker 7: and all the electonium buders. Compare it with the number
Speaker 7: of jobs it will create in the long term, I would,
Speaker 7: as reading pioneer destructive start.
Speaker 5: My second issue is.
Speaker 7: Lack of standard. Nagia is the oly country in this
Speaker 7: world where we don't have standard for weekly from a
Speaker 7: simple goal, we.
Speaker 2: All a simple research from your phone, you could easily
Speaker 2: tell the amount an engineer or a senior engineers when
Speaker 2: to end in.
Speaker 7: Any extractive industry maybe telecoon or all the sectors of manufacturing.
Speaker 2: From me click off your phone, you can know the standard.
Speaker 2: Nigia does not have the standard.
Speaker 7: So I have issue with Parson trying to pin that
Speaker 7: also standards in townshion sector, whether I would like to
Speaker 7: do or not the petroleum sectors to the increase streams.
Speaker 7: You cannot expect from a player in down stream to
Speaker 7: match the salary.
Speaker 2: Of an atlay.
Speaker 1: Can you can you explain your support those that don't
Speaker 1: know what stream up? There? Are you saying that? For instance,
Speaker 1: did the you know say that maybe what the shell
Speaker 1: workers should be? What don if you finally workers you
Speaker 1: get what you're saying, Yes.
Speaker 8: That's the majority of the maguement that has always been like.
Speaker 7: That and near you know, it's not possible because when
Speaker 7: you come to the tuntry your properly, your trading or
Speaker 7: your manufacturer imagine it's very thick. You can't compare with
Speaker 7: an ushame player or a midstream player. You have to
Speaker 7: be very realistic about it. And let us know from
Speaker 7: the first around twenty nineteen, he has really an employees
Speaker 7: on n yers who are already getting multi playment even
Speaker 7: when the finality was.
Speaker 2: Not even functioning. I have a priviented information on that.
Speaker 8: So thousands of nineteen were already.
Speaker 2: Employed gamefully even when.
Speaker 8: The final was not working. How many campaiming?
Speaker 7: How many capitalists who try to taste much you can
Speaker 7: who pays who pays the worker.
Speaker 2: When the company has not even started for that, So
Speaker 2: that's finale, just be finite.
Speaker 8: Working or the payment for those workers.
Speaker 7: Because for the payment of those workers when your finale
Speaker 7: was not working, what's for me?
Speaker 9: From all that.
Speaker 2: S last?
Speaker 7: Or he's twenty two other companies last, they were all
Speaker 7: the ones posibly was getting the money to sustage the
Speaker 7: final and working capital.
Speaker 2: Now finally started.
Speaker 7: It's not even betting up to it's not being up
Speaker 7: to three years and you are having these kind of issues.
Speaker 2: It shows you that this.
Speaker 7: Aren in set of people who are not interested in
Speaker 7: nineteen groups.
Speaker 2: Let's for me loone the Manaster.
Speaker 7: People are shotting down that the final six months and
Speaker 7: nothing happen.
Speaker 2: Everybody. He has done that several times.
Speaker 7: If you know this, he did that book. They did
Speaker 7: this kind of thing in bocal Blat. It shut it
Speaker 7: down for a year. Everybody went to but the issueized
Speaker 7: because maybe it has to do with payments, the loan
Speaker 7: be payment and all that. You know how you know
Speaker 7: big and Genier is my issue now or my point now?
Speaker 7: The Nineteenan government has in roule to plee by through
Speaker 7: its agency as far as we're consigned, and that you
Speaker 7: should not be the one determining what is standard wich
Speaker 7: in any sector. That should that job should be left
Speaker 7: for the Nijan buyer statistics in Nijera Society of Engineer,
Speaker 7: the statutory engineering body which.
Speaker 2: Is and.
Speaker 1: Okay, let me take let me take you upon that.
Speaker 1: We've seen unions in the past fight for minimum wages,
Speaker 1: I mean the sports minimum wage they got that we've
Speaker 1: seen in the West where unions in GM also fight
Speaker 1: for minimal wage and they get it. So the unions,
Speaker 1: even though they are not wage regulatory bodies, I can
Speaker 1: fight for wages for workers in the private commy that
Speaker 1: that is fair enough. Like, but just want to be clear.
Speaker 1: You are saying that the wages for if you benchmark
Speaker 1: that to refineries, it's okay, But you're saying that what
Speaker 1: is asking for this workers in the refinery should be
Speaker 1: paid like the quote unquote I owes is in Nigeria.
Speaker 1: Just that's just want to be clear.
Speaker 2: That that's I used to spend point. Okay, can I
Speaker 2: interrupt and roughing the little bit please? I think he's
Speaker 2: making he's making a hell of mistake and I don't know.
Speaker 2: I know this is not enough on that parking board.
Speaker 2: I want to correct a mistake he's making place. I
Speaker 2: don't know if I should go ahead.
Speaker 1: If going ahead?
Speaker 10: Okay, First of almost we said it's not asking that
Speaker 10: that gang stuff.
Speaker 2: Should be paid the same salary grade with the IUS. No,
Speaker 2: that is not the demand. And that is one mistake
Speaker 2: he's making.
Speaker 11: And I don't I'm not sure he actually.
Speaker 1: Understand what are they asking for?
Speaker 2: What is so understand want what what? What? What?
Speaker 1: What are they asking for?
Speaker 2: After that the.
Speaker 10: Employees should join person and as a member of Pengasa,
Speaker 10: you have the right to what collective bagin agreements.
Speaker 2: Do you not negotiate with the management?
Speaker 10: And it's the collective bagain and not just about all
Speaker 10: that wayfare packages and what known as every company we of.
Speaker 2: Course what the company will be able to pay employee
Speaker 2: is not going to add to pay them as cheval and.
Speaker 1: But but Daniel in Offenders, he said they want they
Speaker 1: won't be paid. But you said, no, that's not what
Speaker 1: they want. But you just confirmed that they want to
Speaker 1: train the union who then asked them to be paid
Speaker 1: quote unquote and unquote the same thing.
Speaker 2: I don't agreements. You are not negotiating with the monument.
Speaker 10: The union at class is negotiating with management and in
Speaker 10: language what the company. Nobody said that if you an't
Speaker 10: paying the same for that, that you're going to ask
Speaker 10: to pay you what the irises are paying. No, it
Speaker 10: doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1: And that's not because I want to be very factual.
Speaker 1: What what what theses? I just don't want to be
Speaker 1: brilliance sir, how are you doing? Engineer? Welcome you know
Speaker 1: that the.
Speaker 2: Probably when I have I can't speak to that very well.
Speaker 2: That didn't what issues just.
Speaker 1: Engineer hold on, it doesn't uge in. You're speaking for
Speaker 1: the union folks now right, I know you as the
Speaker 1: union person.
Speaker 11: No no no no no no no no no no
Speaker 11: no no no no no no no no no, I'm
Speaker 11: not I'm just saying that the probably when I come home,
Speaker 11: do some introduction, you will not even know that I didn't.
Speaker 2: For this is not even about now.
Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, hold your horses, let me get to
Speaker 1: win it to just real quick to come the room
Speaker 1: down and k our come back? Will you go ahead?
Speaker 2: That was quick, gritveryone. So I feel your introduction, I
Speaker 2: tel you just what for lack of right was just
Speaker 2: until you jumbled everything.
Speaker 12: Now you just missed everything because the topic clearly say.
Speaker 13: And language you final reverses and pus.
Speaker 2: So that things first rapping. But I think someone's my
Speaker 2: kids on I'll help you with that.
Speaker 13: Thank you the first things first, cause I think I
Speaker 13: heard you say the government has not done anything yet
Speaker 13: or do you see what the unions are doing? Unions
Speaker 13: also hold as a shutdown government past that hold the
Speaker 13: government accountable.
Speaker 2: So it's not a new thing.
Speaker 14: Paste When unions are fighting for their rights, if it's
Speaker 14: against any level of government, they can they can like
Speaker 14: hold the government to ransom.
Speaker 2: So I don't think in this case is a special case.
Speaker 13: But yes, at the point, who need the government to
Speaker 13: come in. So if you can see, I've posted some
Speaker 13: things of your JumboTron because first things first, I don't
Speaker 13: think this strike it to us today.
Speaker 2: I picked the.
Speaker 13: Interest from back the ninth September post because I was
Speaker 13: already panicking from them.
Speaker 2: And what am I interested is just because I can't.
Speaker 14: Afford to face and in Nigeria, I can't afford to
Speaker 14: face like forcues.
Speaker 15: Or lack of or increase in prices with what is happening.
Speaker 2: So that's why I'm even interested in this.
Speaker 1: Okay, you know, help help us correct any wrong impression
Speaker 1: that we've had. I should know my intro has been
Speaker 1: that in effect somewhere of my interest, that Dangote is
Speaker 1: too big to feel and that whatever is happening with
Speaker 1: DANGOTEA and Union should not affect the economy of Niger,
Speaker 1: that they can still fight. You've talked about government. If
Speaker 1: you shot honestly, if you shot the Ministry of whatever
Speaker 1: down doesn't affect nature the same where you shot to
Speaker 1: be fun down, So correct any anomally, I see you
Speaker 1: Jubo Trump is corrected for us? What's going on?
Speaker 2: Go ahead?
Speaker 12: So first of all, why should it be like why
Speaker 12: should our country or why should the government have to
Speaker 12: why should they be at this point where I we
Speaker 12: will say dang should not feel?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so people come and see and it's the true
Speaker 2: ty investors. But isn't that a personal investment.
Speaker 1: When you say, when you say too big to fail,
Speaker 1: it's just a realization and acnoulnggement that if the company
Speaker 1: goes down, he carries more with him. When you see,
Speaker 1: banks are too big to feels. The banks are private enterprises,
Speaker 1: but if a bank fails, there's a run on the bank.
Speaker 1: It affects the economy those that were no business with
Speaker 1: the bank. Look at twenty two thousand and seven, we
Speaker 1: had real estate mortgage in America alone fail because banks
Speaker 1: in America were irresponsible. But that crisis got to Nigeria.
Speaker 1: It got all over the world, toxic assets. Till today
Speaker 1: we're still dealing with it. So too big to feel
Speaker 1: is an economic term to show that if you remove
Speaker 1: dangoted today. Let's remove Dangota today. What about your error.
Speaker 1: It goes to three thousand, five thousand. If you remove
Speaker 1: Dangote today, shut it down today, your narra goes to
Speaker 1: three thousand, five thousand. Then you have to will fuse back.
Speaker 1: Then you have consumption with for your GDP, would for
Speaker 1: your pack will for your import to go up. That's
Speaker 1: the too big to feel. It doesn't matter if we
Speaker 1: like him, but the private company is a bit too
Speaker 1: big to feel. That's the point we're making.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 12: That we don't want him to feel does not mean
Speaker 12: he shouldn't run that company.
Speaker 13: The refinery, that business will And I think.
Speaker 16: For Panzerson to come up now and say, okay.
Speaker 13: They're coming up and they're going to go on with
Speaker 13: their stroke or whatever, is because he.
Speaker 4: Has not I don't know.
Speaker 16: It's because what we're hearing, especially what we heard yesterday
Speaker 16: from the second what have you, it's that, yeah, even
Speaker 16: though it has been it's a large investment and what
Speaker 16: have you, don't not running it as a huge It's
Speaker 16: a business.
Speaker 2: It's a business, and this this man is not new
Speaker 2: to the business.
Speaker 15: So if for any reason, you if for any reason,
Speaker 15: because he has been called out at various stages.
Speaker 13: But it's because of this we don't want him to
Speaker 13: feel that.
Speaker 8: I still we didn't really.
Speaker 13: Look at at whatever from the regulators.
Speaker 2: To the unions, and still we didn't really sit down
Speaker 2: and look at what they do.
Speaker 1: We need I got you, so like again, guys, we
Speaker 1: need to share something. That person jubil tranting was the
Speaker 1: union's position. Please read that. We I don't want to
Speaker 1: put you on the spot by asking this question. But
Speaker 1: the same unions were in the NPS refineries. I think
Speaker 1: a union guy was on TV. Then I want to
Speaker 1: just say, well he said it was working the same
Speaker 1: unions and they're not working today. We spent about eighteen
Speaker 1: billion from trying to do turnelund maintenance on those refineries.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen an union person pickets and n NPC refinery.
Speaker 1: If I'm wrong, please correct me with well we turned
Speaker 1: these with blending plants. It's not working. Not as pig
Speaker 1: that them. The field and unions are there. So this
Speaker 1: guy has come now, he tried to buy the Geny refinery.
Speaker 1: It wasn't so to him because the unions said don't
Speaker 1: sell to him. He goes under his own refinery. Then
Speaker 1: you have not gone to his own refine to say,
Speaker 1: you're mostly a nice your nice closed down.
Speaker 2: I get you. I know.
Speaker 1: If you have a response to move to the next person,
Speaker 1: but I do take.
Speaker 13: Your last statement with you, and then I'll come back again.
Speaker 2: Give me the mic.
Speaker 16: So that that the guy you said was on TV
Speaker 16: gave call out to the n NPC.
Speaker 13: When they claimed they were because some some part of
Speaker 13: the story says part.
Speaker 2: Of blah blah blah, I don't also have the true details.
Speaker 2: But that he didn't do that doesn't mean that they
Speaker 2: shouldn't call.
Speaker 1: Then to selected, be selected, selective, but they can collapse
Speaker 1: and to the feeling is.
Speaker 15: That we want everybody to do what they should do.
Speaker 15: That we feel that this refinery is going to save economy.
Speaker 13: It shouldn't mean that we should allow it to run
Speaker 13: at the expense.
Speaker 2: Of human resources and the experens of people's health and
Speaker 2: what have you. It shouldn't.
Speaker 13: We shouldn't just I don't know, maybe I'm trying to
Speaker 13: be emotional party. I don't know if you want to,
Speaker 13: but we shouldn't just because of the economy of face issues.
Speaker 15: Realistically, he should he should operate the refinery well.
Speaker 8: That the end MPLC refinery is not gaining well.
Speaker 13: Our juniors are not calling out that does that mean
Speaker 13: that what they should not be called out to?
Speaker 2: Two runs will not make it right? Our come back.
Speaker 1: Let's get doctor b a real you doing sir.
Speaker 2: Very fine. Might have.
Speaker 17: To because most Nigerians do not even to understand the
Speaker 17: import of what we're trying to draw attentions to. In
Speaker 17: terms of said, see, I am one person that I
Speaker 17: hit and they go than go to other than go
Speaker 17: tell Finally hard you know the hardst is if you
Speaker 17: go to Susi Media, go to channels arise, you will
Speaker 17: see my position. We will not allow any manipulations, who
Speaker 17: will not allow any monopoly, will not allow anybody take
Speaker 17: us for granted the way they because this issue with
Speaker 17: Pengers and I aligned with the GOI finally one percent.
Speaker 17: He's fought less here and I want to those to
Speaker 17: one that this can we've gotten into the place in
Speaker 17: that we are with so much embraced med your creaty.
Speaker 2: We allow things to go.
Speaker 17: Service because of our military background and all the stuff
Speaker 17: before the advent of the bank and Pengers and and
Speaker 17: I want us to go back to history.
Speaker 2: It was the Middia that.
Speaker 17: Got this Pangers and all the other majors. Everybody used
Speaker 17: to have union in their own companies.
Speaker 2: Thanks God, their own union movie or union ship had that.
Speaker 17: Oh you know it was that military and they were
Speaker 17: all brought together under dispect. I'm looking and I want
Speaker 17: also understand this Client and Equal is a private business.
Speaker 2: And for everybody who understands.
Speaker 5: What relationship between employer and employee.
Speaker 2: Is, that's a relationship and relationship is documented and could
Speaker 2: to find and had employment.
Speaker 5: You know, I did not sad because I expected and
Speaker 5: don go to have taken the good to have taken
Speaker 5: precautional I measure even when they were employed. People there
Speaker 5: to study it clearly in the employment letter. We will
Speaker 5: not allow any lation in our company. And now see
Speaker 5: it is so painful, you know, we prot since this
Speaker 5: company is an a PC or Minister of Finance Incorporated or.
Speaker 2: Minister of Age or whatever. It's a private concern.
Speaker 5: And anybody who is an employee before first of all
Speaker 5: you put that application, you go through an interview process
Speaker 5: before they employ you something cap as an listed Then
Speaker 5: the employment letter is a document because.
Speaker 2: We have the coming all lest mission.
Speaker 5: We don't even want to start all these days in
Speaker 5: sety disputes between and liqual that.
Speaker 2: God refinery and the employees. They are laid down pusidio democratic.
Speaker 2: We have been post through our courts and have.
Speaker 5: Really look at CPN he capture became the governor of
Speaker 5: CBN what did he do?
Speaker 18: He saw the.
Speaker 5: Loss that was ppatriated by God in the message and
Speaker 5: some of the people within that place. See when they
Speaker 5: cleaned out spree which were going with what is better
Speaker 5: the word he took over to the mission to have
Speaker 5: cleaned up the n NBC some militiary puss that most
Speaker 5: of them caused the massive clear out over two hundred
Speaker 5: very place then left the services of the CPA. Some
Speaker 5: of them went to industry records and they've got to
Speaker 5: reprieve some of them the hard cases to anser. We
Speaker 5: are transportingly under as cases see today. And if you
Speaker 5: look at the cp and so some people will tell you,
Speaker 5: oh that Nicholas, whatever, it's not true. Where I know
Speaker 5: some of some involo guy.
Speaker 2: That we're affected, who are.
Speaker 5: My friend at the CPA, And that is what is
Speaker 5: expected if you feel a grief and as an activity
Speaker 5: as a look, they are laid down CUsing those for
Speaker 5: the dress.
Speaker 2: This is your person and the new.
Speaker 5: Pan behaving like abrows, shutting down the system, gotten down
Speaker 5: guards doing everything is.
Speaker 2: Is a relic of the era. How would you not
Speaker 2: encourage it?
Speaker 5: And I said, this again is the attitude that we
Speaker 5: carry in every day activities.
Speaker 2: I am.
Speaker 5: I was worst an employee, working more than seven bugs.
Speaker 5: I became an employer. Time my colleage begin to act,
Speaker 5: I said, there's what I learn in life, difaning for
Speaker 5: you with skills and value to add, you player.
Speaker 2: Will go to any leg when they change you. I
Speaker 2: always say it. Never can only say him job. Two
Speaker 2: years during this bank I said, yeah, I have value.
Speaker 2: Banks are patching me that way. If I don't have
Speaker 2: value to add, my employer will. He's leading me off.
Speaker 2: And that is the truth. And I always said, people say, well,
Speaker 2: good thing back. It was last like we were not
Speaker 2: allow anybody to retreat.
Speaker 5: If you have value to add to return to the
Speaker 5: employer asked me six for your hand. You will move
Speaker 5: from one level to another because you have value to add.
Speaker 2: One of the reasons why most of us behaved the
Speaker 2: way we lose. We have no value to add. Therefore
Speaker 2: we try to put ourselves like like here us live
Speaker 2: watch us.
Speaker 5: We got together to the strauble time with what advice
Speaker 5: because the billion ask a person for over eighteen years,
Speaker 5: we wasted eighteen billion dollars on the liver program on
Speaker 5: the twenty five that never worked. There was never a
Speaker 5: time no blank yeah members annually we are drawing one
Speaker 5: place in me in analysis in the monument, they were
Speaker 5: flying all over the word of conferences working there they
Speaker 5: finally that was not working. That was never a time
Speaker 5: to pink or pinkers like aspect twice everything was rented.
Speaker 5: I'm called for anyone to be sacked either or whatever
Speaker 5: for you. The virus not working there in tabooed with the.
Speaker 19: Criminals and the reglittered department of the old The finalists
Speaker 19: two roads recree after we did watched three of the
Speaker 19: aady there's some guys went on it to another working
Speaker 19: he was not working.
Speaker 2: So you know when I see people and said what
Speaker 2: a liquor?
Speaker 5: That what they do at the same time with this,
Speaker 5: if you are an employee in a liquor that go this. Finally,
Speaker 5: for whatever reason, you're not paying a way, I will
Speaker 5: have value to add for crying aloud that edge on
Speaker 5: deciding finalists all over what Nig's right intu it in.
Speaker 20: That of the war.
Speaker 5: Now, yeah, professors were expected if you did, you have
Speaker 5: excuse to have value to add.
Speaker 2: And it's not giving you got your city looks like
Speaker 2: that place. That is how it is done.
Speaker 5: Most people who in this movementality destroyed if we don't
Speaker 5: have it, people who have no value to add and
Speaker 5: the same problem we're having. The public center incomprehends me
Speaker 5: to come back to pasty. We really we kill were
Speaker 5: blond blunder just to have a part because.
Speaker 2: Value. So please, good day finally is too big to fail.
Speaker 2: I'm not finally good that good thing. But on this one,
Speaker 2: anybody that's not one.
Speaker 10: Point, we're not.
Speaker 2: I'm going to step too far.
Speaker 1: I thank you. Let me get what doctor. I appreciate
Speaker 1: the passion and ship. I think it's we want to
Speaker 1: have both sides. The point is this, and let's just
Speaker 1: get this very clear. We're going to have folks that
Speaker 1: will agree or disagree with Aliko Dangote. They will call
Speaker 1: you a monopolis. But let's not debate if Dangote is
Speaker 1: too big to feel it is. I just explain, if
Speaker 1: frinary stops today today, your dog, your daughter is going
Speaker 1: to go to about three thousand, five thousand. You have
Speaker 1: your fuel que back, you will stop the non oil
Speaker 1: export top of crash. So it's in fact it's too
Speaker 1: big to feel get hit. Please commun come in here
Speaker 1: as an engineer.
Speaker 2: Good there everyone, I've had in mind to start from
Speaker 2: the subsided itself, like where you.
Speaker 10: Just now regarding coming back, because the many who was
Speaker 10: a dang the finality is the one that's made the disappear. No, sir,
Speaker 10: Now let's start from the issue of subcity also production.
Speaker 2: My name is engineer.
Speaker 10: I'm the pature inspector myself there also worked as a
Speaker 10: latter manager from most financial institutions.
Speaker 2: So that won't be on the side.
Speaker 21: Now.
Speaker 10: The era of sub Cidy three twenty twelve, before the
Speaker 10: twenty twelfth.
Speaker 5: The PM.
Speaker 10: So many people there that at the time the EU
Speaker 10: government answer of as remained depict Later the answer of
Speaker 10: the ep K the n PMSK me and everybody was
Speaker 10: on PMS. Now, the era between the the especial of
Speaker 10: twenty two thousand and nine to twenty lear.
Speaker 2: Was governments maybe very mark for PMS price. They goad
Speaker 2: license to market to bring it in.
Speaker 10: When they bring it in, they who invoice the government. Okay,
Speaker 10: we're bringing so and surprise.
Speaker 2: Now the way it's designed to work then was they.
Speaker 10: Are over recovery and under recovery. Now, if your landing
Speaker 10: costs is less than the Sellium prize the Nigeria going
Speaker 10: to the end episode and then is asking the people
Speaker 10: us to pay for pms and polictations, then the.
Speaker 2: Government will pay back the government. If your unit cost is.
Speaker 10: Less than you have to pay back obtuly of the era,
Speaker 10: it's not always government with now if it is more
Speaker 10: than the governments, you will taking the cops the value
Speaker 10: you're bringing the differeniers and then pay you.
Speaker 2: That is supposed to work. However, that twenty so many
Speaker 2: people have beauty process.
Speaker 10: So many of our products exported outside the country. Back
Speaker 10: the drugs that responts story. Some people will bring in
Speaker 10: ten thousand metric wrong claim do do domination claims eleven
Speaker 10: thousand metric tones. So we won't bring in prudence. They
Speaker 10: will take it out and still claim subsidi for it.
Speaker 2: If you want more explanation is a Bower's book.
Speaker 10: It's when I read it did so many details about
Speaker 10: what after we went wrong?
Speaker 2: Then that's side. Then where it came in. Now that
Speaker 2: elis was face over the era. When you came in.
Speaker 2: What they did was they removed they make an MPC.
Speaker 10: Disul important of the products such that even if you
Speaker 10: can't if you order people also have license, you can't
Speaker 10: stip bringing it in.
Speaker 2: But the unfortunating day was.
Speaker 10: An MPC price is little less than the landing costs.
Speaker 10: So there's no way a new market town will bring
Speaker 10: it redogs to complete the n MPC.
Speaker 2: Price now and as the hella.
Speaker 10: We have between twenty fifteen up to Socidy is going
Speaker 10: to May twenty ninety or two thousand and three or twenty.
Speaker 1: So that's the era.
Speaker 2: Then at the point that was more love more for
Speaker 2: us again they changed it to pot for paymental delights.
Speaker 10: That is also another era now in that era of well, now,
Speaker 10: this is very port that era of NMC to fort
Speaker 10: that everybody seventy lesson ninety at that time have to
Speaker 10: rely on an PC.
Speaker 11: Or stopp life.
Speaker 10: Now we've got now if there's any destructure that happened
Speaker 10: that mad an NPC not to delive out on time,
Speaker 10: that's what that person and those go outside and drinking.
Speaker 10: It can't break even. That's why everybody now have to
Speaker 10: wait for any pc emphasis of everybody. That's what bring
Speaker 10: all those cubes of those times.
Speaker 2: But now the era of susigy is gonna find.
Speaker 10: Immediately. If you notice your wrides went to exactly what
Speaker 10: internationally then everybody started bringing in I remember my dam
Speaker 10: they didn't do ceremonial and it was there all this government.
Speaker 1: Where where are you going?
Speaker 2: No? You know you may and you you say something
Speaker 2: about that takes the wonder that let us have no.
Speaker 1: That is why I'm priving that.
Speaker 10: Regarding that one first, Now the the what is the
Speaker 10: other king? That's the main reason why they's no key,
Speaker 10: Not because of that goody overnight, not that all it
Speaker 10: has a presence. Now do go there as if for
Speaker 10: lender forty cent over doction.
Speaker 2: You can protect this.
Speaker 10: Now that will be one on one side. Now on
Speaker 10: the side of the issue now and saying, dang gooding
Speaker 10: what you are I think was discussing your time? Now
Speaker 10: what's the issue?
Speaker 2: Now? Was there in the press.
Speaker 10: Release the month they have the this starts having.
Speaker 2: Freedom to join union of their choice.
Speaker 10: Which is a constitutionally galanty to write for anybody, and
Speaker 10: that liberal law.
Speaker 2: Some of them I know most of those days.
Speaker 10: Some of them are in my situation not this why
Speaker 10: and the society apranchise will say, okay, we're going to
Speaker 10: Nika said, apposed them.
Speaker 1: Up there for you.
Speaker 10: They go on the one when the management, now see
Speaker 10: what happened, It comes up a bringing about issue of okay,
Speaker 10: you send in forms to people, are part of any union,
Speaker 10: yes or no? Then the sacking or do whatever. Now
Speaker 10: the main issue for numbers. The main issue now is
Speaker 10: spend that scene you say. They're not talking about your pride.
Speaker 10: They are months, they are paying depends re state.
Speaker 2: Decide to podcast the right of workers to join you,
Speaker 2: he said, question to rate. See the rights. It's not
Speaker 2: the gifts. Now that is on one side.
Speaker 10: Now we have so many graduate engineers and engineering.
Speaker 2: I know what it takes in Engan. We have the technicians,
Speaker 2: we have the technologies that you have the engineers themselves.
Speaker 10: Now the technologists at schools and those are the technician.
Speaker 2: Then the technologists are the engineers are people who go.
Speaker 10: To engineering school and at least practice for a minimum
Speaker 10: of four years after Now we're not obviously the engineer
Speaker 10: and engineer.
Speaker 2: Eve was satisfied.
Speaker 10: Four hundred thousand ERA by an Indian technicians regular doing
Speaker 10: exactly the same work in our country.
Speaker 2: And people are just justify this. Okay.
Speaker 1: So just to be clear, let me see if because
Speaker 1: to speak. So you've talked around that Dangote allowed the
Speaker 1: workers to join a union. But that's statement from Dango
Speaker 1: also said that you cannot force anyone. They said, yes,
Speaker 1: engineting does make that point. He said. He said the
Speaker 1: staff can join, but can force them to join. That's
Speaker 1: number one. Number two I think, don't kind of speaker
Speaker 1: here talk about it's a private company. It's a private company,
Speaker 1: the Coat of Nigeria super egos in Nigeria. How much
Speaker 1: is it paid? Okay, how much is that coach paid?
Speaker 1: How much the Nigerian coach is paid?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Engineering the oil industry is in Nigeria, it's not in Marsiat.
Speaker 1: Don't tell me. I'd like you to speak. So and
Speaker 1: in the second point, I make it that the private
Speaker 1: the CEO says he wants to pay some from Ukraine
Speaker 1: one million and he wants to pay the Nigerian guy
Speaker 1: ten thousand. So are you saying I'm just asking you,
Speaker 1: you're saying it's illegal or it's wrong or what's your point,
Speaker 1: hold on.
Speaker 10: On one hand to that something is a legal, is
Speaker 10: a logical or not leg?
Speaker 1: I would say more than that, what is wrong if
Speaker 1: if he's paying the Indians x amount and wide amount?
Speaker 1: What is the real issue? Are you saying that the
Speaker 1: doing the same job. But here's the c right, he
Speaker 1: looked at their cvs. He knows the body adding is
Speaker 1: he is the one pain. It's not you and I pain.
Speaker 1: He is the one pain.
Speaker 2: So what is your point?
Speaker 3: Answer?
Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on, donald, go ahead, answer, go ahead,
Speaker 1: just go ahead, go ahead. Then give me a take.
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you, thank you doctor something.
Speaker 10: That's when an employee joins the good thing they give him.
Speaker 1: An employee letter stated should He said should? It is should?
Speaker 2: Can let me answer this question?
Speaker 10: If you have one and you sign an agreement with
Speaker 10: the person helping you this morning, I will based I
Speaker 10: would be a state for number of years. It is
Speaker 10: that issue to court with that and even though you
Speaker 10: signed it will stand.
Speaker 2: There are issues that.
Speaker 22: In his level law, like your level level law, even
Speaker 22: national level organization, it is an in non negotiable provision.
Speaker 2: That you have right to unionize.
Speaker 1: Yeah, question, isn't my best company?
Speaker 2: They do not. It's not given it's not.
Speaker 1: But then to ask not your just thing to the
Speaker 1: hold hold I don't want to meet. Hold on, hold on,
Speaker 1: hold on, hold on, Daniel, hold on, Daniel, just hold on,
Speaker 1: just hold on, hold on the point being made it's
Speaker 1: a it's a private company. I want to hold on. Please,
Speaker 1: it's a private company. Right, is a private company. He
Speaker 1: said in a statement that he will not stop anybody
Speaker 1: from unionizing, but he also said you cannot force pool
Speaker 1: to join in. It's clear. So it's fifty fifty so
Speaker 1: but the point engineers make it up in Indians are
Speaker 1: being paid, have been paid. Why now, I guess starts
Speaker 1: to meet people. If you don't call you you speak,
Speaker 1: I'll just take you off the chat. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: allow you to be organic. But yeah, go ahead and
Speaker 1: just try to follow a book listing. That won't just
Speaker 1: get the issue. If we talk about please go ahead, building.
Speaker 2: And everybody and.
Speaker 18: Legal protection and consult for some of these other companies.
Speaker 18: And I just want to stay really clear first, these
Speaker 18: are the issues for the domination that we really like
Speaker 18: so address first of all the issue of private. Yes,
Speaker 18: we should be really this is what the loss is
Speaker 18: by various sectors in our economy. A good example is
Speaker 18: the gas sector. Now the sector fully not only constitution,
Speaker 18: not only the liberal law of the land, but also
Speaker 18: international label organizational law that has been set in places,
Speaker 18: be the public trad contum be the private welical entity
Speaker 18: or beat PPP, Drinks Virtue or the like.
Speaker 2: So first we should actually reduce that where we say, oh,
Speaker 2: Dangote is a private.
Speaker 18: Company that is wrondom the moment. We should not also
Speaker 18: forget everyone that the federal government also mistake in that
Speaker 18: final the reason why a major stakeholders in establishments going
Speaker 18: a gas sector is to put what we call it
Speaker 18: feels safe and balances and some issues relating to welfare
Speaker 18: as adults working environments. Victam and the likes not let
Speaker 18: me need them explain this special between peas. Now it
Speaker 18: is written my rights and that privilege information that we
Speaker 18: see this clearly, which is which is what the address
Speaker 18: tell us.
Speaker 20: A number one did not force, did not have rush,
Speaker 20: did not see this the close stuff of them a
Speaker 20: refiner it.
Speaker 2: To interest everyone to go on this call that they enjoined.
Speaker 2: It was two days after the joment that they were
Speaker 2: dropped before they joined.
Speaker 18: And you guys aware the managements preferred about it and
Speaker 18: kicking from the really motories and now managements will be
Speaker 18: appreciated about it. Money being are the issue because by
Speaker 18: the communities, in line with their custom for workers.
Speaker 2: Big junior, Big Senior to whatever I want to do.
Speaker 18: Now, I think something changs and on the lab and
Speaker 18: someone else indicated that probably allotting himself.
Speaker 2: More decision for this task to drink.
Speaker 18: Was really wrong move, probably is going to lead to distruction,
Speaker 18: distruction when they strike in future.
Speaker 2: Or the lab.
Speaker 18: It wasn't one that in all of his Sunday his says,
Speaker 18: how can I reason and logical in this thing? Won't
Speaker 18: make what would reach over eight hundreadful fields pas preconstruction,
Speaker 18: first construction, and two years after operation to finally decided
Speaker 18: to say, almost me beatings that are going so well,
Speaker 18: I think it's fine.
Speaker 23: We can I out to a body or we can
Speaker 23: ask for someone what is to repeatable available in that set?
Speaker 23: Because it start SI stuf association, it.
Speaker 2: Doesn't cover genius.
Speaker 18: It does not cover so we we have to be
Speaker 18: really careful when we are dressed certain teams as to
Speaker 18: what needs to be It's a perfect science. Now on
Speaker 18: the issue of ex Patrick I will say this, I
Speaker 18: spent some time in Oble States and that I think
Speaker 18: it was underbo the jannetary game.
Speaker 2: We are so one of the biggest consults in my life.
Speaker 1: I think the really really.
Speaker 18: National reconsulction that was being undod by the Kinistates Civil
Speaker 18: Engineering Company. It was then I realized first round the
Speaker 18: experience that I looked at, we somehow over glued the
Speaker 18: idea of any white man we see on side.
Speaker 1: Let's just let's just I think it a very legal point.
Speaker 1: I want to ask you, is this if they've all
Speaker 1: joined the union that you had them, it is legal legal.
Speaker 18: Where if they're able to prove, if they're able to
Speaker 18: establish that's the reason for their dismissal was as a
Speaker 18: resource of the joining association.
Speaker 2: It is marked by the conservation of a section forty
Speaker 2: the freedom are able to drink any association. It creates
Speaker 2: a discrimination.
Speaker 1: Where do they get Where did they prove that? Where
Speaker 1: do the benefit proving that?
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you mister for this good question.
Speaker 18: I think someone mentioned I think it is mister Barreau
Speaker 18: or the front mentioned. Oh, the assistant their checks in
Speaker 18: place that address issues like this. Again, we were a
Speaker 18: legal system in Nigeria doesn't not actually.
Speaker 2: Provide legal system the time.
Speaker 18: If the time, Dad, if it's still in those it
Speaker 18: is going to be different or the last the time
Speaker 18: for this matter to be to eat condred of things
Speaker 18: to be address.
Speaker 5: Trust me, Okay, let's let's.
Speaker 1: Let's do that. Let's agree to that. What about Pengerson?
Speaker 1: What is the legal before they can go and strike
Speaker 1: or to block the refine? What are the legal what
Speaker 1: they want to do? Can they just do what they want?
Speaker 1: What are the process.
Speaker 18: And order to know that strike all the label law
Speaker 18: is considered as an act of good. I read the
Speaker 18: statement that were released by the TAPS refinery said the
Speaker 18: mentioned issues of people, some contract design those now again
Speaker 18: you would strike?
Speaker 1: Ask the question a questions, ask the question. What I'm
Speaker 1: asking is that if Pengerson decides to go and strike today,
Speaker 1: what are the legal staff they have to take to
Speaker 1: go and strike.
Speaker 2: The issue?
Speaker 1: Hamidius I, you I.
Speaker 2: Have no idea. It is constituted. That's where they have
Speaker 2: the schools. I think we are.
Speaker 1: The point that making that when you bring up the
Speaker 1: legal side that the workers cannot be fired, because you
Speaker 1: know you are totally correct, you are correct, correct that
Speaker 1: no employer should fire any employee because the employee constitionally
Speaker 1: went and joinking you're right, and that has ruined the course.
Speaker 1: But then if you didn't now say she doesn't allow
Speaker 1: Pekerson to then go to an institution and brought them.
Speaker 1: So if for instance, it's to be an if an
Speaker 1: IDB sacks workers, pengers were going to shut down the
Speaker 1: n I d B. That I was also transfer money
Speaker 1: in the you know some things are too large to
Speaker 1: feel if empty and fires the worker, we share the
Speaker 1: fiber optics that.
Speaker 24: Mister reply to that, so training depends on this. Second
Speaker 24: I started that they are verious sector with different models
Speaker 24: around the set your believe we have family members friends. Second,
Speaker 24: you can't you agree with me how dangerous that sect
Speaker 24: of this intention of the working environment because it changes
Speaker 24: that they are exclused to.
Speaker 2: Now it doesn't interested by data.
Speaker 25: That's a lot of then that menial don't have the laws.
Speaker 1: But it's not more it's not it's not it's not
Speaker 1: more dangerous than the Nigerial police force and Nigal police
Speaker 1: cannot strike. And again the energy sector is what we
Speaker 1: call a national security sector. As you if we stop patrol,
Speaker 1: stop products tomorrow, this month already we are going to
Speaker 1: be panicking today. Government has said they're going to step
Speaker 1: in fragment as if they did not step in, and
Speaker 1: there were few accused from Monday panic buying the culls
Speaker 1: they didn't, you will suffer. It's a strategic sector. If
Speaker 1: we just cannot go un block that entrance.
Speaker 2: He would need let me conclue, we can't do that.
Speaker 2: Let me concute one of different one of the elements
Speaker 2: and instruments.
Speaker 18: Associations and pressure groups like the Medical Association of Ideria
Speaker 18: te U s uses our work.
Speaker 2: We have them.
Speaker 18: Please not resigning temporarily again work stations, because if you.
Speaker 26: Don't do that time over again a country climate negotiations
Speaker 26: is street. If you want, if you scrap, if you
Speaker 26: start with school, let's command this contract and conversations.
Speaker 18: It is treated slowly, it is addressed and it is
Speaker 18: spreaded so much. So important is pressure groups. When need
Speaker 18: is busy. Government on one of the one of the
Speaker 18: ways preseral and of striking the area it's going. Someone said,
Speaker 18: oh it is final, he can do whatever he like.
Speaker 2: Please this week said the Jerus.
Speaker 18: Precedents across both sectors and putitious that.
Speaker 27: Will becoming infow I have no issues with you, and
Speaker 27: you really have no issues with Well, if we are
Speaker 27: now to say and say president, one man, one man
Speaker 27: himself can decide to fight you over, three unions can
Speaker 27: decide to okay, I want to remove over.
Speaker 2: It doesn't work without any traits and travel overseas.
Speaker 1: When you say this right, when you see when the
Speaker 1: point when you when you say this right, we go
Speaker 1: back to the n n PC unions. They are also
Speaker 1: unions in n n PC. Why did they not if
Speaker 1: you say one fight, why did those unions also not
Speaker 1: use this great power you said they go to guys,
Speaker 1: look to a body that could step in, and then
Speaker 1: they went to the unions. Why didn't those unions they
Speaker 1: went to go to n n PC and make an
Speaker 1: MPC work. Why is it so selective that they got
Speaker 1: now has to have union oversight? Well, the n n
Speaker 1: PC that is there, what has you know Well it's not.
Speaker 18: Yes, yes, sorry, I'm taking a lot of time from
Speaker 18: because but let me say this is TRUC. We have
Speaker 18: n PC, We have pegs. We have pegs total exambile.
Speaker 1: And they all have does anybody you've met refinery anyone.
Speaker 2: We are talking about like and jury association.
Speaker 1: But there's no there's no refinery into time.
Speaker 2: Let me let me let me correlation does it's not
Speaker 2: actually appropriate?
Speaker 1: So reason to be with finer? What has what has
Speaker 1: pengersen done for me lately?
Speaker 2: Okay? Greg said, is the reason why people in those
Speaker 2: street cret because I don't want to go back to history.
Speaker 1: That's more. Finally, working in the idea, there is no
Speaker 1: working refining. Let me go real quick. Let's talking about.
Speaker 2: Please let me answer him. Let me answer him.
Speaker 28: First of all, people stating that telling telling brown and
Speaker 28: all of.
Speaker 2: The legs beg the n P because not mean that
Speaker 2: there's no nothing that I'm telling. The truth is many
Speaker 2: people except you have been so you don't know findngineer.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: I already mentioned finance working. Just go straight to your point.
Speaker 1: I didn't mention that your delta refinery that does I
Speaker 1: mentioned mentioned the wester hamfin in the states I mentioned.
Speaker 1: I didn't mention the small ones. I mentioned the big ones.
Speaker 2: Yes, mm hmm, let me just tell you this.
Speaker 28: It's telling and you telling you Finer, you are quality.
Speaker 28: There's fingers and really, finally have they show did you
Speaker 28: have you heard that they shot down? Finally or the
Speaker 28: able twice because this is you.
Speaker 2: Want to keep dang.
Speaker 5: Have you heard that I would that is able to
Speaker 5: tell you I brought it down that you brought that one?
Speaker 2: Who I forgotten this man? Let me just even conclude.
Speaker 28: That, yes, and I guess refiners, auto gas plants and
Speaker 28: the appeas Have you.
Speaker 2: Heard a show that you plant one day? Have you
Speaker 2: heard that you are that you're not.
Speaker 28: The idea that is really finite justice my face face,
Speaker 28: Let me seek give you under the distance.
Speaker 2: Also, when people say pasin.
Speaker 28: Chilled capacity does not determine intention, capacity does not determine intention.
Speaker 2: Your intention is your intention? You Capcity, Let me tell you.
Speaker 28: Let me tell you because I see the majority about
Speaker 28: your lawyers and bankers.
Speaker 2: I thought you expect experts in your seed for a
Speaker 2: lot of those.
Speaker 5: Give the reverence to those that are experts in your fig.
Speaker 2: And pets their opinion. See uh. The perception about Williams.
Speaker 28: Having the external influence in the company is totally room.
Speaker 2: Extend this thing in one space to them. When I
Speaker 2: finish all of them, you're kept quiet. And this is
Speaker 2: personally to you. The idea that union and the externally.
Speaker 28: Influenced within the system is totally wrong.
Speaker 2: The union has about they have then they have the junel,
Speaker 2: they have the branch, they have the chapter, and they
Speaker 2: have the units.
Speaker 28: Let me say I want to start from the level.
Speaker 2: Let me say that I don't think.
Speaker 1: I don't think we want to have on the unions.
Speaker 1: I don't think I don't space.
Speaker 2: This is your space. This is your space, and you
Speaker 2: have been. You have been sharing your ideas.
Speaker 1: Your place. You can make your commisson. But look why
Speaker 1: those true digital union go ahead, but making you take
Speaker 1: up the space that takes you up the space. I
Speaker 1: really don't care take the space. So please please please okay,
Speaker 1: let's move on, Please go ahead.
Speaker 4: My response is to.
Speaker 10: Am engineer, like you.
Speaker 1: Go ahead? Okay? Is it chickill? Please go ahead?
Speaker 2: Is it okay? Thank you? Please lend me some of
Speaker 2: this poltical count sweet.
Speaker 29: I heard that person, I said, I am mostly the
Speaker 29: one right when I look at what is happening, one
Speaker 29: look at.
Speaker 2: What's happening the environment. Find an environment today. It can
Speaker 2: reminds me of what I read in the Confessions of
Speaker 2: Economy Man.
Speaker 10: So I know, we have like someone a couple of here, right,
Speaker 10: we have twenty thousand refineries over Nigeria, or.
Speaker 2: The question is what impact have they made?
Speaker 1: And then with the economy, the language, the language that
Speaker 1: they're not swing producers. They're not swing There are many
Speaker 1: many micro refineries, motorifers across Niger, but only Dangote is
Speaker 1: a swinging producer. He can affect prices, he can affect
Speaker 1: outputs at the maximum capacity of all the Nigeria manzena
Speaker 1: PC put together. If you combine the that are refinering
Speaker 1: the one and in all of them, if you combine
Speaker 1: them together, it's not up to a quarter of Dangote
Speaker 1: is daily production. So even they produce as maximum numbers,
Speaker 1: you can't affect anything. So there's there's economics. This space
Speaker 1: is an economic discussion.
Speaker 10: Yes, we're on the same page and this is where
Speaker 10: I'm going right, We're doing in the same direction.
Speaker 2: In sy something. This is what this is my top
Speaker 2: my personal thought about this.
Speaker 10: I cannot think after the government shoes stepping and past.
Speaker 2: The law that will protect companies for ten years. This
Speaker 2: is why I think there should.
Speaker 10: Be some form of the kind of a new terminology
Speaker 10: would say for the next one hundred years.
Speaker 2: We are looking at bigger picture. Now, any company that
Speaker 2: will have x ys that is jerming.
Speaker 10: We've not seen before in Nigeria that in Nigeria or
Speaker 10: even Liphorian. I would say, you know what, I'm going
Speaker 10: to risk my capital and everything I have to set
Speaker 10: this up.
Speaker 2: We are going to protect such company for ten years against.
Speaker 10: XYZ so that they will stabilize before we will let
Speaker 10: these guys in.
Speaker 2: In the past, in history across the world, when such
Speaker 2: projects like dan Got this.
Speaker 10: Project come on in the developing country, especially.
Speaker 2: If it impacts some examer elements. I don't want to
Speaker 2: sound as if I'm being a theorist. You easy, the
Speaker 2: easiest way to kill it is to infigerate it from
Speaker 2: the inside and model it and don't go ter refiner before.
Speaker 2: No reason should be allowed to fall victim to that.
Speaker 10: So for me, Homa should step in and protect our
Speaker 10: project for ten years.
Speaker 2: Let it find his footing. The man has decided to.
Speaker 30: Bring in over four thousand trucks that would convey this
Speaker 30: much needed product to paper directly.
Speaker 2: It is not a small feat.
Speaker 10: It shows that he is serious minded to impact Majian economy.
Speaker 2: I perfectly understand how some people feel from the.
Speaker 10: Other corner, but when will weigh the pros and the.
Speaker 30: Count, we would look at the other side and say,
Speaker 30: this will have a greater.
Speaker 2: Impact when it is our life than will be kill
Speaker 2: it for Heaven's sake. That would finally should not die.
Speaker 10: We need to protect it, saying onor no pen or
Speaker 10: whatever should give them giving me a lifeline of ten years.
Speaker 2: And we should make it kind of law. That would
Speaker 2: say in the next.
Speaker 31: Because we are looking at developing a gurine economy, are
Speaker 31: looking at super tapping my Geran.
Speaker 10: Economy, you know, to solve this effects issue, to solve
Speaker 10: this issue of importation of of pms. These are two
Speaker 10: major issues that have clicked Nyderian economy for over forty years.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 10: It creating slowly, and we didn't people didn't pay attention
Speaker 10: to it because we kept thinking, oh, don't worry about
Speaker 10: it is not a big deal.
Speaker 25: It has a heat of biling belt and for some
Speaker 25: reason that they have succeeded.
Speaker 2: To get to Yea, it is I kind of feel
Speaker 2: we should cover some slacks.
Speaker 25: He developed country in America. Everything will be done.
Speaker 10: To protect Dondy, to seek him grow and stabilize before
Speaker 10: we will allow anybody to come in with the union
Speaker 10: or non unions, I mean Centrist president I'm always on
Speaker 10: living inside, but.
Speaker 2: It's in the context of Nigeria. We need to have
Speaker 2: a change your mind.
Speaker 1: We need to have a shift in.
Speaker 2: Our thought process. In the context of Nigeria.
Speaker 10: Anything that would make my Genian economy grew should be
Speaker 10: protected with lives.
Speaker 2: That's what I want.
Speaker 1: I think it's well said that you captured like the
Speaker 1: Depote and quote the centrist part. I think. I think
Speaker 1: that's the point I try to get across when I
Speaker 1: did the intro. Whether you like Dante, where is the monopolist?
Speaker 1: Whatever I name? You targe him? The refinery today is
Speaker 1: too big to fail. You have seen the imports coming in.
Speaker 1: Do you know how much you are spent to fix
Speaker 1: an NPC re find it? Eighteen billion? The Portacon refiner.
Speaker 1: We were told that when the lights the paratis to
Speaker 1: seal up, its working. Is it working today? Is not
Speaker 1: the guy the former n NPC emply is now with
Speaker 1: the ect an employment, imports, naira. Everything is because of
Speaker 1: the Dangote illuminate here. You will float as space over
Speaker 1: time bathlet over and over that there is certain non
Speaker 1: economy today. It's because of Angote. You can argue this
Speaker 1: is a factual statement non oil export. It's Dangote, Dangote,
Speaker 1: you are exporting the United States to Brazil oil reports
Speaker 1: that were important. Dangote is bringing oil important on the
Speaker 1: US and it's giving US PMS taking it back after
Speaker 1: the country aviation fuel. The same thing. The naira has
Speaker 1: gained value because our import the dollars were seeking for
Speaker 1: dollars to import has also gone down. So again it's
Speaker 1: an economic discussion. If we start to go into no
Speaker 1: one has has shown the letter that says the unions
Speaker 1: said this. Dangoti said this. We're all goward going of
Speaker 1: what we saw on Twitter, and I get that point.
Speaker 1: But Pegasian to go and shut down the largest refinery,
Speaker 1: not just in Nigera, not say in West Africa, no
Speaker 1: in Africa. I think in the whole world. There's maybe
Speaker 1: one legend and that's one in India. To think of
Speaker 1: the process that went to thanks in his mind because
Speaker 1: this issued the unionization. We are going to shut down
Speaker 1: the crude oil pipelines that are going to go to
Speaker 1: go to the Finally, just think about that for a second.
Speaker 1: Look at what the Bible said about women that have
Speaker 1: the babies. The two men who the baby was this
Speaker 1: one says my baby down stairs, my baby, and so
Speaker 1: one said, oh I killed the baby. One said, don't
Speaker 1: kill the baby. Don't want to the baby. Who is
Speaker 1: to kill the baby today? Who is gonna kill you today?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 1: Like I said, whatever issues they have, the presidency has
Speaker 1: stepped now a b with the result. Why shut down
Speaker 1: the pipelines that would have fighten Nira, cause fewer lines,
Speaker 1: cause your deeping the fall? Why go there? Why go there?
Speaker 1: Because you are a union and this is why people, Well,
Speaker 1: just get us to speak. Looky, what's your nameclog?
Speaker 10: Just give me one second, like thirty seconds before before peoples,
Speaker 10: there was something that happened in years ago.
Speaker 2: I'm sure everyone almost everybody here will remember.
Speaker 30: The HIV said that that took over the broadcasting of
Speaker 30: Champions League and Premiership from the STV in yes, from DStv.
Speaker 2: Can you remember that in HIGHDV.
Speaker 1: Right, yes?
Speaker 10: And at some point over six months it was rumored
Speaker 10: that ITV was going to lose.
Speaker 6: Their license, and we all sat back and allowed.
Speaker 2: ITV lose our license. Do you know what it meant?
Speaker 10: It meant that every morning that every household in NINETEERI
Speaker 10: appaid to d STV seventy percent of people flow to
Speaker 10: South Africa.
Speaker 2: I think we should start thinking economically in our politics,
Speaker 2: our political stakeholders. She started, he brought like they should.
Speaker 2: They should be looking out rather than looking in.
Speaker 10: If we saved the high TV, the bunch of money
Speaker 10: Nigerias we are paying to work trampiers, the Premier League
Speaker 10: would have stayed in Nigeria and created jobs in Nigeria.
Speaker 10: I knew five to ten people that lost their job
Speaker 10: stressed away because of that it TV.
Speaker 2: So we shouldn't let projects like this die for any reason.
Speaker 1: Any other country will not.
Speaker 2: They will do everything possible. They would print money to
Speaker 2: protect such thing because we're looking at the bigger picture.
Speaker 2: We're looking at the impact on the wider economy. This
Speaker 2: is not just an individual amount. So please, that is
Speaker 2: my point. Don't go to your finally should not die,
Speaker 2: Thank you, calum.
Speaker 1: Look, I want to make a contribution real quick, real
Speaker 1: walk quick.
Speaker 8: In ge I was talking about the pages uh.
Speaker 1: The fund that your audience, but your audience is bad.
Speaker 1: Yes I can ser okay.
Speaker 7: The page between the Indians and engineers, I understand yours are.
Speaker 2: Being in that process and I understand what and Indian
Speaker 2: technician using the right.
Speaker 1: Honestly doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: No one cares.
Speaker 1: When you made this, technologist don't want be carest you.
Speaker 1: Honestly you nobody cares. We don't understand what this means.
Speaker 1: So when you're talking to general public you have to
Speaker 1: speak another understand.
Speaker 7: Think I am a ter, I am an engineer, a
Speaker 7: que If you come to the technical aspect of this thing,
Speaker 7: we care not virtually. DA is difference in union perspective
Speaker 7: between Indians and N gen technician engineers less do that.
Speaker 8: But the question is it's not dangotists duty to preach
Speaker 8: that gap?
Speaker 2: What is nare society of engineers doing about nothing?
Speaker 10: They are the supposed to.
Speaker 7: Make sure that that gap is not created, not down.
Speaker 7: It's not a good job to reduce that gup Corent.
Speaker 7: It is the duty of correct like your society of
Speaker 7: engineers who are busy doing nothing because they don't create
Speaker 7: any value in this country.
Speaker 1: If they do, we will not be having this.
Speaker 2: A large amount of arcticians of future will.
Speaker 7: Come from different places to come and be taking dusement
Speaker 7: for an idea.
Speaker 2: So what we should be.
Speaker 8: Doing is to look at how strategy, whether you like
Speaker 8: it or not.
Speaker 7: Those eight hundreds engineers which are colleague, we understand what
Speaker 7: is the belessit of doubts like giving to the management.
Speaker 2: They're okay, you management media proposer.
Speaker 8: Let's run this thing for a period of time.
Speaker 2: We'll look into your various consite.
Speaker 32: Which is what he does in all his business.
Speaker 2: And you if you know that, good day. You don't.
Speaker 8: You don't come with this and gone gone approach to him.
Speaker 2: You come with with a consultative approach.
Speaker 7: Okay, the management a proposed in two years time, we
Speaker 7: look into this day and this error of there's no
Speaker 7: pep no pp. That's that's that's a very wrong you.
Speaker 7: There is no man of fact you want to conclude
Speaker 7: whether Michael Sewall or medium that pep helmet is not guaranted.
Speaker 8: So you can't tell me global a global felm like that,
Speaker 8: but it does not have people.
Speaker 2: That that's that's alone, That alone.
Speaker 8: Is is error. Because I've been to the plant, I've been.
Speaker 7: To you re finite even as if it's you're giving
Speaker 7: the helmets, so if I was giving the if this,
Speaker 7: will you not tell me that people are working there
Speaker 7: to first seven does not happen?
Speaker 1: Let's does not work all right, Lots of folks lots
Speaker 1: of folks.
Speaker 2: Come here, you are only you come on people who
Speaker 2: are inside the plans.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, gotcha, let's perfect. Let's let's get look, let's
Speaker 1: get a little bit to speak. Lookal, go ahead please
Speaker 1: l u q k I e ok look look okay,
Speaker 1: let's get oxist sense o sense Oh my god, you
Speaker 1: guys right right pronounces? Sorry sir, please go ahead, thank you,
Speaker 1: yes sir.
Speaker 5: Foremost personally, I have at least fourteen to fifty people
Speaker 5: who were affected by this issue because I.
Speaker 2: Did finish, and a boke of.
Speaker 5: My costmates were all employed by that, which was a
Speaker 5: very good move, right it kind of a lot of
Speaker 5: them were no unemployed and stuff.
Speaker 2: However, there were a lot of concerns from them. Pop
Speaker 2: was one of them. Health insurance was another one.
Speaker 5: And someone was speaking about upstream, downstream, midstream, every other stream.
Speaker 2: You cannot for one, compared saler. It's quite all right,
Speaker 2: that's true.
Speaker 5: However, the discrepancies they were speaking about between the Foeigners
Speaker 5: and Nigeria's was not just in terms of salary.
Speaker 2: Was are issues like feeding. We also had issues like
Speaker 2: indias referring to people to racist.
Speaker 5: In our own country and now this was what I said,
Speaker 5: and this was all I noticed in the hope of
Speaker 5: them way down what he saw Pengasy coming into this company.
Speaker 5: He did not want that to happen because he knew
Speaker 5: the pengas In might not just a weafare they will
Speaker 5: also have the capacity to shut down because they can
Speaker 5: go on straight. So that was not something he was
Speaker 5: willing to do. Quite other but the company itself was
Speaker 5: not willing to negotiate internally with the staff now on
Speaker 5: the issue of health insurance. They spoke about the health
Speaker 5: insurance packing not being able to cover most of the
Speaker 5: hazards or any other unitses you face if you face
Speaker 5: it inside of the facility right now, those issues could
Speaker 5: have been dealt with it in primarily within the campaigny
Speaker 5: first and there will be no reason for them to
Speaker 5: have go to Penghassen or approach any on the union
Speaker 5: because if Pergasson has the total control overtaff it means
Speaker 5: there who owed the keys to his facility and they
Speaker 5: can shut it out from outside.
Speaker 2: So you have to understand that where that good is
Speaker 2: coming from.
Speaker 5: But the company policy itself failed to adjust the issue
Speaker 5: which should not have even go to the outside to
Speaker 5: Perhasson the first way why this issue should have gotten
Speaker 5: outside to Panhassen now speaking about that as the national
Speaker 5: asset and stuff like that. Downwoaday is a national asset,
Speaker 5: which is why he is supposed to be a role
Speaker 5: model to all the smaller things about being sting.
Speaker 2: That way and.
Speaker 5: Let's say like filling stations and outblats like that. Opt
Speaker 5: today they pay for attendance fifteen twenty thousand. If there
Speaker 5: was some sort of unions that works without attendance, they
Speaker 5: will nego ships up to one hundred thousand ward fifty.
Speaker 5: We're not saying pay the bit that or pay people
Speaker 5: the war in this present economy.
Speaker 2: And also look into their webfare.
Speaker 33: Like I said, a lot of my colleagues that finished
Speaker 33: where too are graduates. It's not as if these people
Speaker 33: are technicians or finished put on battel in the class.
Speaker 2: These are people that.
Speaker 5: Have felt okay, we can work with dan vote, we
Speaker 5: can also improve the economy without know how I'm being
Speaker 5: treated like charge. So my point here in conclusion, because
Speaker 5: I don't even want to waste a lot of time.
Speaker 5: I feel like the way the HR, the way the
Speaker 5: people in charge of staff in downward the money issue
Speaker 5: was out of hand. They fail to manage the issue operly,
Speaker 5: it wouldn't have excalated to the points whereby you have
Speaker 5: to go involve bengers in bengers Indeed this spengers in did.
Speaker 2: That and whatever.
Speaker 5: Where as issue has got into this points, we hope
Speaker 5: they gets in resolution because nobody in their licenses will
Speaker 5: want to see that what they feel right and they
Speaker 5: move from pengersins really shot it out from outside God
Speaker 5: just goes on to proof where that what they would
Speaker 5: have been a fait of you being so involved in
Speaker 5: this companion. So I feel like they just have to
Speaker 5: find absorbing the whole company from playing totally doesn't really that's.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's a wonderful that's a wonderful sentiment to Josh
Speaker 1: who that's that's just responding. I think whether balanced sentiment
Speaker 1: with just shared that Dangote itself failed in it's so internal,
Speaker 1: you know, should we say it feels internally allowing the
Speaker 1: excenal parlices to come in and of course with nas
Speaker 1: and is spiral out of that. I very much like
Speaker 1: that sentimental. I think Dangote has lent. Someone sent me
Speaker 1: a DM as said they worked in Dangote they don't
Speaker 1: want to put their name, but that Dangote they does
Speaker 1: not give. He said the same thing you said, that
Speaker 1: the meal allowance, his sety five thousand for the meal
Speaker 1: and that they go to something in hospital, Hello hospital.
Speaker 1: That's what they do their hatemo, the anger center, Hello Hospital.
Speaker 1: So it shared that with me. I want them to
Speaker 1: send your information and said no, go if I send
Speaker 1: it to you, I'm sure if with myne own account.
Speaker 1: So that's what he's sort of collaging what you've said.
Speaker 1: So I think the message back to Dangote is they
Speaker 1: really have got to step up on their HR side.
Speaker 1: I think that's the message that they have to take
Speaker 1: from work last thing. If Pengerson has coming to as
Speaker 1: the pressure point to them, good on Pengerston. But Dangle
Speaker 1: has got to benchmark itself to world class standards. It's
Speaker 1: not just pay like you said there is. We shouldn't
Speaker 1: be debating that when Herald met or PP that shouldn't
Speaker 1: be a debate. That should come automatic. So if they're
Speaker 1: not doing it, they've got to do it. And I know,
Speaker 1: I think that's a very very well balanced comment that
Speaker 1: you've made. Doctor. You're only coming.
Speaker 28: Here is I need to have on this.
Speaker 34: You know we he had to say, Oh, I'm going
Speaker 34: to employed engineers, first class engineers to engineers is not
Speaker 34: looking them well as much as it's all the stuff
Speaker 34: also waiting here.
Speaker 2: And give you an example, Calum and the banking industry today,
Speaker 2: if you wanted, most bands, most banks.
Speaker 35: Are having issues with their with their flintake and all
Speaker 35: this stuff because like this, this smart guy's dead. I'm
Speaker 35: moving out of the system, sitting.
Speaker 5: Employment elsewhere, some of my home living in truce out
Speaker 5: of the Actually now banks are going out of there.
Speaker 2: If you go read them today, you would see.
Speaker 5: That they are going out of their will the vampire
Speaker 5: and make sure that those guys sit there.
Speaker 2: I think department those within the system are retained. No,
Speaker 2: I yeah this thing.
Speaker 5: And I'm not defending that good like I said, I'm
Speaker 5: not if i'd not that good day, but I can't
Speaker 5: tell it as an employer of the level and lookal
Speaker 5: that God is not dumb for the levely as we say.
Speaker 2: And I don't think ancle for whatever is that we
Speaker 2: treat shabby. If you look at most and you could
Speaker 2: have got this company most of them from I like
Speaker 2: it to Anigeria the top most except one or.
Speaker 5: Two ins Lebanies. We need to be very very careful.
Speaker 5: I am not already played for him with what I
Speaker 5: work was for as n you guys, I've already did
Speaker 5: you tell everyone of you start.
Speaker 2: Looking the groom as an employee.
Speaker 5: As an employee, I knew franks were working in different banks.
Speaker 5: That my employee asked the bad joke with me for
Speaker 5: one minute because I was always on the move.
Speaker 2: And he said him within the system, where do you guys,
Speaker 2: whether instead go to Shell? Most of the the gs
Speaker 2: and Shell are so respected. He collecting that was a
Speaker 2: true we meet you or somebody made to one. He
Speaker 2: made first class. He is not being valid for Plana.
Speaker 5: If you have the values to add and if you
Speaker 5: want again walk and just something better.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: All right, let's get a looky in doctor, look look
Speaker 1: at Elie okay, process.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, thank you?
Speaker 11: Can you hear me?
Speaker 36: I can, sir?
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah. So what I want to say is this,
Speaker 2: let's remote.
Speaker 21: I agree everything dangle, Dangle there has issues with the
Speaker 21: HR department.
Speaker 2: But we have to get into our headtack. Don't go
Speaker 2: there is our star boarding.
Speaker 33: You agree with me that rocker fella in America but
Speaker 33: when they started the rail they had they enjoyed. They
Speaker 33: enjoy lots of stuff monopoly. The enjoy lots of stuff
Speaker 33: that the government knew, but they couldn't do anything about
Speaker 33: it until other players gave it until later down the
Speaker 33: roads don't go te too two.
Speaker 1: Isn't that face?
Speaker 2: Let's not let's not let's.
Speaker 33: Not dis that dangle the true isn't that face? Yes
Speaker 33: we are going through. Yes Dangled need to step up,
Speaker 33: but we can't have it. But the way the unions
Speaker 33: are set up in that there the way they're operating
Speaker 33: that JR. If you don't play by the rose, they
Speaker 33: are got a message. Und you are supposed to be
Speaker 33: a thing that. Yes, people don't like them, company orders,
Speaker 33: don't like them, but they are not supposed to be
Speaker 33: that beast that every point in time, once you just agree,
Speaker 33: they'll find.
Speaker 2: A way to get you. It's crazy you have a union,
Speaker 2: you have outcome a union just how they're supposed to
Speaker 2: be an employer and elder supposed to.
Speaker 33: Be employees themselves that they want to shut down your
Speaker 33: whole company.
Speaker 21: From there, they will tell people that are working about
Speaker 21: the shut down the gas the light to the all states, does.
Speaker 1: That make sense, doesn't make That's where they that's where
Speaker 1: they missed its points point.
Speaker 2: You know, they have to negotiate at every point time.
Speaker 2: It's all about negotiations. We can't do that. We can't
Speaker 2: keep doing like this. It's abody that is eighty billions over.
Speaker 21: I don't have many billion the dollar dept is in
Speaker 21: and he's doing it because it's even helping the company.
Speaker 33: If that should go down today, the video scus.
Speaker 2: That will be Nigeria. It's not done. That's the fact.
Speaker 21: So no matter how you know, even where that is
Speaker 21: behaving somehow, Yes, we have to correct it. But at
Speaker 21: the same time, it's our start. Boy, we have to
Speaker 21: purpi is our right now? Dude, we have to propi.
Speaker 2: We have to correct, but we have to paper at
Speaker 2: the same time. That's the truth.
Speaker 21: I think as if we have about the choices, we
Speaker 21: don't have any eternity have got start than finality.
Speaker 2: Nobody has not.
Speaker 1: Finally, that's that's the that's the hard truth. There's no
Speaker 1: other option. That's why we say too big to fail.
Speaker 1: There's no other option unless we import I mean if
Speaker 1: you importantly, now I go to three thousand, so you
Speaker 1: can choose your poison. You can't pat your habits.
Speaker 2: When where we had somebody opening company that is.
Speaker 33: Affecting another countries economy, that refiner is affected people in Europe,
Speaker 33: is affecting the refinery, the closing refineries around the world.
Speaker 2: Because of that.
Speaker 21: That is the plots positive for the GIA. We call
Speaker 21: ourselves giant. It's not my mouth, it's by.
Speaker 2: Steps this it will get it.
Speaker 21: You will get it all the way all round. But
Speaker 21: it's something that we have to We can't talk to
Speaker 21: him with everything was gonna be fight, Everything was not.
Speaker 21: Everything was not. That is like if we look at
Speaker 21: how big down you don't look talk about it. You
Speaker 21: see some people you will blow the blog.
Speaker 1: When you think about when you think about it critically,
Speaker 1: you go to Bloomberg. You read that the the the
Speaker 1: refineries in Europe are closing down because of a refinery
Speaker 1: in Nigeria and the same group there's the same Broomberg
Speaker 1: so that that trucks have blocked that refinery. So they're like,
Speaker 1: what are we talking about here? Can anybody come to
Speaker 1: the journey invest They come to well by trucks can
Speaker 1: just go un block your refinery the same give the
Speaker 1: same FDI. So if I come out if it's almost
Speaker 1: contre tomorrow. Pengasay blocked tests but that it didn't have peppe.
Speaker 1: I get it, there's no PEP. But think about it, guys,
Speaker 1: don't think about what will say. We keep us saying
Speaker 1: we want to be independent. I get it, wanted to
Speaker 1: be dependent, but you have tied to.
Speaker 3: Them because other ses that business are not protected.
Speaker 2: As much by different convent like this.
Speaker 3: Another companies look at the market for example, how many
Speaker 3: of the tech communities.
Speaker 2: Get contract directly? You know I listened to obviously and
Speaker 2: they are merit.
Speaker 32: But the very pea is that it exposes the under
Speaker 32: laying problem in the Nigeran business world.
Speaker 2: We don't really have that convid. You can see somebody
Speaker 2: that the company more as had this.
Speaker 3: Month out playing a title just because he has direct
Speaker 3: contacts with the president and so you know, for me,
Speaker 3: I think did has been gone?
Speaker 2: I think the damage can still be controlled.
Speaker 3: The latest new issues that different governments is making most
Speaker 3: to say to I think if you go beyond that,
Speaker 3: because that has happened to me is unbeat like what
Speaker 3: mini speakers are like. The other day issue is the
Speaker 3: business primating and it's difficult for businesses.
Speaker 2: To get in that. I just imagine he went the Trump.
Speaker 3: Visit the Kata and the area of cat was introducing
Speaker 3: Dangote to Trump.
Speaker 2: I imagine what it must have been telling him.
Speaker 3: And if you look at latest of this, because I've
Speaker 3: been influing Dankotte's news.
Speaker 2: Around the world and it has really brought.
Speaker 3: In so much positivity and in the common If you
Speaker 3: ask people, they will tell you that one of the
Speaker 3: game changers is, you know, the cross oversity and.
Speaker 2: The fact that just capacity to the dollars.
Speaker 3: Has improved despite the fact that the micros is still
Speaker 3: a problem.
Speaker 36: So yes, I understand the fact that a.
Speaker 3: Lot of people have said that eight hundred the Giant
Speaker 3: workers were dismissed.
Speaker 2: We can't write that under and I feel the extreme
Speaker 2: was to move looked at. We can't like a variety.
Speaker 3: But the issue, I feel the end game is for
Speaker 3: the fair governments to ensure that there's.
Speaker 2: A system that will not make the Dankuote or the
Speaker 2: Giant interest.
Speaker 3: Indispensable because they also put the factor how would you
Speaker 3: have for refineries that can't even match he caught out
Speaker 3: dankuoties capacity as we speak. Look at what this happened
Speaker 3: to ReViral recent there's no resolution. They had to acquire
Speaker 3: import and that is a state. We found a governor
Speaker 3: and giving the deputy governorship.
Speaker 2: So we have so many problems.
Speaker 3: Call you if you look at the ones that are
Speaker 3: coming in the president. We thought that they could say
Speaker 3: that they discount I was the one saying she put
Speaker 3: into infity because many players don't want to buy it.
Speaker 3: Now you're talking about spending billions of dollars to really so.
Speaker 2: We really have problems. And I think for me that
Speaker 2: could really.
Speaker 3: Has a lot to prove because he's going to list
Speaker 3: in the coming years.
Speaker 2: He also has to pay creditors. People are not talking
Speaker 2: about that. He also got us.
Speaker 3: You know, we also need to ask why did anyplaicit difforce,
Speaker 3: you know, inequity financing.
Speaker 2: Why that's also you know, enough.
Speaker 3: For Dan Coulty to be less interested in the Marcos
Speaker 3: and the niger But I think patrols him also because.
Speaker 6: The man had said it that he didn't want to
Speaker 6: take Nigeria out of the dependency of the truth.
Speaker 1: Let's just talk. Let's talk a see. So that got
Speaker 1: into the statement that mean that I'm more liquid than
Speaker 1: him or keep their money in Monocle, right, more money
Speaker 1: in Monaco. Do you think any Nigerian that is as
Speaker 1: liquid as Dangote that has money in Monaco, do you
Speaker 1: think anyone is going to come to Nigeria and do
Speaker 1: a steal plant or whatever. Do you think they will
Speaker 1: do that because Dangote has proven so Nigeria is it's
Speaker 1: a nation of stories. Ull before off a Jakota because
Speaker 1: a Jagota field, many private guys didn't go to steel,
Speaker 1: because Tinapa field. Many Nigerians didn't go into that sort
Speaker 1: of entertainment lifestyles, shopping malls that's connected globally to airports,
Speaker 1: free trades or no. One just went straight to shop.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: This Dangote refinery thing that the government waited too long
Speaker 1: to get involved because if you go on Bloomberg, now
Speaker 1: you see the Pengasine has shut down the refinery blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. Then they did the implication that it can
Speaker 1: be shut down. That's the news. It can be shut down.
Speaker 1: So it because it has a higher risk premium today
Speaker 1: than it had yesterday, because there's no way that there's
Speaker 1: no order in this company down to the refinery. Was
Speaker 1: in any other country with me, it would never have
Speaker 1: been shut up, irrespectable.
Speaker 2: Whatever the issue that meant to face.
Speaker 1: And I'm saying irrespective of what that got, it did
Speaker 1: or it is alleged to have done, they refiningly would
Speaker 1: never have been shot down. But it's been shut down now.
Speaker 1: So in the the guys that are doing risk premium
Speaker 1: for that, I will say it can be shut down.
Speaker 1: It can be shut down. And that's going to add
Speaker 1: if he business points to your risk premium, which is sad.
Speaker 2: Can you also need to look at the fact that
Speaker 2: they also look at the.
Speaker 37: Car and you can't complain that you have some very
Speaker 37: true and I think, as I said, has to say,
Speaker 37: you know, this is new, the ref is new.
Speaker 3: They also away about interest because devices that any serus
Speaker 3: anerty provision will the interests around the world.
Speaker 2: They're pretty much are not happy with Dougulty. Look at
Speaker 2: how Dunky is taking.
Speaker 3: Marketshire from s fieries even the United States, you know,
Speaker 3: and the United States are kind of very people Dakulty,
Speaker 3: because has increased.
Speaker 2: Buying capacity.
Speaker 3: This is what the Trump was fighting for repairs that
Speaker 3: why are you buying Russians?
Speaker 2: Why are you buy a Russian world?
Speaker 1: Why can't you buy So let's let's let's let's play
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories. Let's you like to play conference theorists. America
Speaker 1: today is telling Russia, telling you e, you to leave
Speaker 1: Russia and go to other sources. Where's the only source
Speaker 1: that can go to in the world today? The aspect
Speaker 1: capacity Nigeria. Then suddenly unions go to that same Nigeri
Speaker 1: refinery and shut it down. Conflor you and I, but
Speaker 1: let's get Cyrul to help in here. Cyruls, are you doing, Cyrus?
Speaker 1: Guys gonna good? Yeah?
Speaker 31: Goo giving everyone billion conversations and a lot of speakers
Speaker 31: have said a lot of things about this that quite interesting.
Speaker 31: And first and foremost, I think I said the problem
Speaker 31: that I still with the old thing, and are the
Speaker 31: old thing is being managed the way the angle finally,
Speaker 31: communication team, probably the intern HR team, you know, the
Speaker 31: way they dispelled the message or the.
Speaker 2: The narrative and everything in between. I think a lot
Speaker 2: of things have been modeled up.
Speaker 31: Yet there's a difference between Peggerson and peg They're not
Speaker 31: the same union. And interestingly, Peggerson has no time. I
Speaker 31: pushed Aguity to join their union. You could you could
Speaker 31: first check me, they have no time. I pushed at
Speaker 31: or even that they start to join their union, because
Speaker 31: this is a very dignified you know that, you know
Speaker 31: as a rock state in different companies, Fames of Greats
Speaker 31: marketed across the country, so they deal with shell, with
Speaker 31: the handle with water smeith, you know.
Speaker 2: Linaing them and one thing.
Speaker 31: I feel like probably because tangle Ta is new to
Speaker 31: the industry and they are trying to do their thing,
Speaker 31: which I agree with them.
Speaker 1: Completely saying dignified they block this refinery, what dignify them,
Speaker 1: I'm getting, I'm.
Speaker 2: Getting, I'm getting into that this is what I did.
Speaker 2: I said that I feel like.
Speaker 31: That going into the industry, and he probably they don't
Speaker 31: really understand how the older sector uperate the other acceptor
Speaker 31: is very cool, interdependent. It's not a record that works
Speaker 31: in science. Even from the upstream to grilling disposition.
Speaker 2: You still need the pipeline. It's still in distribution, you
Speaker 2: still need in the retail.
Speaker 31: You're singing everybody in of so you cannot just say
Speaker 31: you want to do your own isolation. The reason why
Speaker 31: you paid least concerned about angle Tee, whether they wanted
Speaker 31: to dominate or they wanted to dissolve, not to let
Speaker 31: me let me go toward I need to disturb the distribution.
Speaker 2: Distribution market, which is was the reserve to people in
Speaker 2: logistic It's.
Speaker 31: A different market on its own, right, So they felt
Speaker 31: concided about it, that's okay, we want to step in
Speaker 31: and the open up.
Speaker 2: But it was not Pedestine.
Speaker 31: And the interesting thing about this was that when they
Speaker 31: fired those engineers, right and they've already made a statement
Speaker 31: that any of the employee could join the union, and
Speaker 31: the employee could be part of union, but they are
Speaker 31: going be forced to do that, or did the employee
Speaker 31: decide to go ahead with the delective of the the
Speaker 31: management and decide to join pedicine.
Speaker 2: What they forget to know is that if you're winning it,
Speaker 2: finally you need the pipelines, you need the l eenies,
Speaker 2: you need, you.
Speaker 31: Need, you need the the plan from every other stakeholder
Speaker 31: involved to ensure that you're you're finally you're quitted and
Speaker 31: tradition are stick in this in all of these all all.
Speaker 2: Of these operators. So what we have spoken would have happened.
Speaker 1: Shut it down?
Speaker 31: I don't know, absolutely not, absolutely not, but I feel
Speaker 31: like what I feel could have happened. I said the
Speaker 31: problem was that they do not and do the routing. Well,
Speaker 31: there is nothing wrong with speaking to your staff and
Speaker 31: you know, telling them, in strutting them not to join.
Speaker 2: The union, and even giving them.
Speaker 31: Incentives not to do so. It's just it's just the
Speaker 31: commercial as opposed to uting. Like I said, person has
Speaker 31: not But in any time I pushed to join your union,
Speaker 31: they've seen down, got put commissioning, commissioning, you know, and.
Speaker 2: They're not going for the first one year.
Speaker 31: They've never had one point to join their union, probably indoor,
Speaker 31: but that there's nothing in open that we know about.
Speaker 2: So these ones seem as though the the the whately.
Speaker 31: Finally is discriminating against anyone who decided to be part
Speaker 31: of union. And there's nothing wrong as an employee journey
Speaker 31: a union. You can decide today that you want to
Speaker 31: be part of if you're working.
Speaker 2: For let's say.
Speaker 31: Education institutional idea, a battle teacher union, nobody's.
Speaker 2: Going to stop you from doing that. So But and
Speaker 2: if you.
Speaker 31: Fire somebody because they journey union and it's an illegal
Speaker 31: thing to do, it is on consumer to discriminate some
Speaker 31: because they're part of a union.
Speaker 2: You can find them or you find and that's why
Speaker 2: they they will tell the final compression thing. I'm not
Speaker 2: even goody not to say that. Why to fire those people.
Speaker 31: They cannot say that because when you say that, you
Speaker 31: have an illegal issue that can put you in a
Speaker 31: lawsuits for a long time. So for me, I feel
Speaker 31: like they could have handled differently. They could have incentified
Speaker 31: their staff not to journey union in in any way
Speaker 31: then they know and to be honest, Acou, there is
Speaker 31: no way a person who wants to start protect and
Speaker 31: will you find it because the fathers have.
Speaker 2: Members in order.
Speaker 31: The financis because pipeline infanstation Nigelia, you know, a gas
Speaker 31: Plantermina plus Nigelia.
Speaker 2: The work with the work with NDLE, they work with.
Speaker 1: The work finally, Cyrus, you say this, but the fact
Speaker 1: is that the Yeah, but right now their trucks were
Speaker 1: parted blocking thegle To refinery. You say this, but they
Speaker 1: did subbortage the refinery. It's not speculation. They did subbortage.
Speaker 2: They issued state spaced that the the finance issue in.
Speaker 31: State and called back the employees that because calor with
Speaker 31: the music, because they decided to.
Speaker 2: Join the Biggerson union, that that is what they called.
Speaker 1: For under no no, no, sir, Cyrus. If they called
Speaker 1: they called for that and then they went ahead to
Speaker 1: see the gas the gas five shout to be turned
Speaker 1: up and then they block depends.
Speaker 2: To a poly couldn't involve to be blocked.
Speaker 1: Why should they say that, that's the point. Why should
Speaker 1: they say that? They cannot say that, Cyrus, they are
Speaker 1: an essential service. Essential service cannot go on strike. It
Speaker 1: doesn't matter, Cyrus. They cannot go on strike.
Speaker 2: They cannot.
Speaker 1: So are you saying that you army can say because
Speaker 1: I'm not opening scenario, I'm gonna go and strike, because
Speaker 1: because because they have they can't. Police can't go and strike.
Speaker 1: Essential services cannot go on strike. It is you can't
Speaker 1: say they can go on I must say whether they're
Speaker 1: right or wrong. I'm saying they cannot go on strike
Speaker 1: because they are essential services, they can't go and strike.
Speaker 2: But no all.
Speaker 1: For example, if they're essential, they cannot go on strike. Cyrus.
Speaker 1: Before it doesn't mean before it was right. I'm saying
Speaker 1: that the essential services cannot go on strike. That's the
Speaker 1: point I'm making.
Speaker 32: I think, and I think with the idea is that
Speaker 32: people don't understand what with is critical like for example,
Speaker 32: you don't know they don't want me.
Speaker 2: I just want to look at if you look at.
Speaker 3: The French for example, whether you protested and everything, you
Speaker 3: don't say anything about.
Speaker 32: Local because most of the one nucle energy and even
Speaker 32: riven money to work in that institute.
Speaker 1: You must be a friend.
Speaker 2: You don't allow for us to critical they are certain
Speaker 2: things is international. So the problem we have been in
Speaker 2: that system. That's what I said. We also have a
Speaker 2: pritical issue is that we not the it is critical,
Speaker 2: like I know what can be saying, but do you
Speaker 2: from your.
Speaker 32: So just double the pet issues bringing out so many
Speaker 32: of the issues.
Speaker 2: And I've always said it before that what is the
Speaker 2: advantage of visiting a business in the stock.
Speaker 3: Markets that opposes books to show that to the public
Speaker 3: and you have a private person.
Speaker 2: The advantage it was that in Lettin you don't see
Speaker 2: that gym, you don't see that in Japans that in China,
Speaker 2: China the companies idle. So the problem I have here
Speaker 2: is that you don't have that. It's not in differentized.
Speaker 2: So what I is right you can.
Speaker 31: Said about essential economic settles us to do with the
Speaker 31: government what you mentioned in.
Speaker 2: Military it's a government or if nial label comes for example,
Speaker 2: decide to go finding those two actions.
Speaker 31: They can't say that the media it will stop working,
Speaker 31: right and for example, even the healthcare of the government
Speaker 31: work not If you're talking about pipe does an anngier
Speaker 31: they can easily, but it can usually not.
Speaker 2: Show up at work the next day.
Speaker 25: If you're talking.
Speaker 2: About about.
Speaker 31: Me, if you're talking about energy plans, workers gets.
Speaker 2: Not show up at the work the next day. It's
Speaker 2: not that it's not that computated.
Speaker 1: It's not that.
Speaker 2: That would issue. I think that was excluenced. I mean
Speaker 2: take thinking trying to.
Speaker 38: Say, okay, where does that youreform or you understand over everything.
Speaker 3: All right, And so you're saying that if there's an issue,
Speaker 3: it could go and strike.
Speaker 2: If there's a course, you know what the country use you.
Speaker 38: Know, and public it is for example like the issue
Speaker 38: FASI for example, they want to counsel because the countries
Speaker 38: to they want to counsel to publicities to see.
Speaker 2: And the people are saying no, they don't want that.
Speaker 3: That's what does tell the effect of just looking off
Speaker 3: in the economy.
Speaker 2: Now they're tellingly that now because we are.
Speaker 3: In an issue, Piplane or Beatles can look where companies
Speaker 3: energy really are distributed.
Speaker 1: That this is this is an economy where where the
Speaker 1: DSS is going after Twitter because of a post made
Speaker 1: by against the president. What I'm saying is simple, if
Speaker 1: they decided to come to work, they're all falsifed with malaria.
Speaker 1: No problem, it's malaria. But if they have a meeting
Speaker 1: and at that meeting they agree that all of them
Speaker 1: will not come to work because they want to pressurize
Speaker 1: the management of a company to do something, it is illegal.
Speaker 1: It's an essential service. They cannot use their power as
Speaker 1: a union to stop an essential service, whether they are
Speaker 1: right or wrong. That's why the general law has got
Speaker 1: many steps. Before you strike, you have to give notice.
Speaker 1: There's industrial court, there's arbitration. The midst of labor has
Speaker 1: also talk to you. There are point and industrial plents
Speaker 1: also talk to you. All these steps are failed breaks
Speaker 1: that will say, before you can go on strike, the
Speaker 1: government would have been aware of it, would have tried
Speaker 1: to interfare and resolve the issue. They will do all this.
Speaker 1: You just can't wake up and say they need the allowance. Therefore,
Speaker 1: the oil pipelines, the oil Niger's oil pipelines, you know
Speaker 1: you can't put them up and put them back on immediately.
Speaker 1: You just say, let's put it off. Let's that we
Speaker 1: had that, Let's that we had a jag cutter. Still
Speaker 1: you now say, okay, off the fullness. Put the fullness
Speaker 1: off because we're going on strike.
Speaker 2: You don't do that.
Speaker 1: That's why you have the law. It clearly states the processes.
Speaker 1: You give notice, you go for AIP industrial court, beef,
Speaker 1: or you can even go on to strike. That's the
Speaker 1: reason why they have those stop gates there. It doesn't
Speaker 1: matter if you are right. It doesn't matter if you
Speaker 1: are wrong. Essential services cannot waker. I agree together and
Speaker 1: go and strike. It doesn't work that way, sir. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying whether I right or wrong. I agree with
Speaker 1: to the point that that Dangote will been clear their
Speaker 1: hl their pr folks are not competents in well. The
Speaker 1: government also has been too slow to step in and
Speaker 1: say hey stop, these things give us a bad images nationally.
Speaker 1: This is affecting our bond rating. If that Gotta goes
Speaker 1: to raise bumps tomorrow, he would pay an extra business
Speaker 1: point because these issues he will pay and who pays
Speaker 1: You and I when it comes to grease equity, we
Speaker 1: are going to pay more for than got shares because
Speaker 1: of what's happened over this weekend, whether it is Fangerson,
Speaker 1: whether it is now paying whatever I named unions call themselves.
Speaker 1: They went too far in trying to stop the operations
Speaker 1: of that refinery. They went too far. They could have
Speaker 1: done many things, but not to stop the operations of
Speaker 1: their finding it is it is beyond what they're debating,
Speaker 1: because beyond but that.
Speaker 2: Is the problem. Allow we inherited from the podcast, like I.
Speaker 1: Said, an economic discussion.
Speaker 2: We like extremism and we like this fight take. We
Speaker 2: feel that was we must use our last card, even
Speaker 2: as the slightest opportunity. I think it's an opening. It's
Speaker 2: because even look as we have example, that's the smallest
Speaker 2: way you can be said to the wean for the
Speaker 2: glass card that we call the person's head.
Speaker 1: It's a weekend. Now, this is it's a beautiful like
Speaker 1: a week a week and you're shotting down the largest
Speaker 1: refinery in ninety and maybe sometimes come forward the week
Speaker 1: let's science. Do you know what the same each.
Speaker 2: By saying I'm completely that they both side.
Speaker 10: They impose and extremities in the situation that could have
Speaker 10: been set to you know, behy closed doors I don't
Speaker 10: see any reason.
Speaker 31: Why, for example, that would tell he find and he
Speaker 31: would fire local engineers. By the way, they quick commissioning.
Speaker 31: Many of them were there because they needed to find
Speaker 31: against biggest for the first time. And and these guys
Speaker 31: are midlevel workers and some of them are people have
Speaker 31: spoken to me directly and they told me that they
Speaker 31: did not see it coming. And what the re find
Speaker 31: a statement that they believe was that they.
Speaker 2: Want to sabble toad.
Speaker 31: Then finally, I want to score to your operation, which
Speaker 31: is not not to I think these are extremities that
Speaker 31: could have been avoided and this could have been said
Speaker 31: to it. I feel like there's no in Nigeria. There's
Speaker 31: no free job. You know, there's no job. So for
Speaker 31: someone to wake up a family of two days birdmen
Speaker 31: of his was to be couped that on jobs only
Speaker 31: nine years, this are going to be absorbing the economy
Speaker 31: also have an economy unlikely.
Speaker 2: I think you said I agree with you completely that
Speaker 2: it's an extreme measure.
Speaker 31: But like I said, postally, just trying to get from
Speaker 31: the government and from that the finance to instate those
Speaker 31: guys back.
Speaker 2: And I want to believe that if it's resolved.
Speaker 31: Those engineers are, you know, state dad back to the
Speaker 31: the finances so they can have a job back.
Speaker 1: What are your first round? Yes, thank you so much, sir,
Speaker 1: your first round, pitcher, go for it. Let's just adult.
Speaker 1: Sorry trying to speak. I apologize and little I'm just
Speaker 1: do fast pitch, go for it and just make sure
Speaker 1: everyone is going.
Speaker 2: To be believe I'm list. Some pointed the network showing off.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 10: I'm actually I want so those like I sum you
Speaker 10: know the line of work I do.
Speaker 2: So I'm actually I'm naturally not going to say a
Speaker 2: whole lot of things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, personally, just I read your d I know where
Speaker 1: you're coming from my head.
Speaker 10: Yeah, so I'm definitely going to be a bit restricted
Speaker 10: in things I said, but I would never get to
Speaker 10: set the record straight.
Speaker 2: So for me.
Speaker 10: Number one, we spoke about the issue of peers shutting
Speaker 10: down the pipeline.
Speaker 2: I think it does the next three measure because if
Speaker 2: it treated, the impact is going to happen.
Speaker 36: You know that.
Speaker 39: Finally, they don't go there. If it's not something It's
Speaker 39: not like your car. You can easily just put in
Speaker 39: a key and start it off. If you ever shut
Speaker 39: it down, you might end up spending the next three
Speaker 39: months trying to start it off.
Speaker 10: You can imagine what it means like three months trying
Speaker 10: to start and the really is that the rule of
Speaker 10: complex units like a single unit. They might maybe in
Speaker 10: truth just to me just trying to ramp it off,
Speaker 10: and it works in.
Speaker 39: Sequence, like for you to start true might even be
Speaker 39: in the next three months because because the reason is
Speaker 39: that because A and B there are supposed to be
Speaker 39: least are not yet up. So those thing happens in sequences,
Speaker 39: and that is why it's more like a continuous process.
Speaker 39: So they don't even allow it to show them in
Speaker 39: the first place. So as it is like they can
Speaker 39: even run for the next thirty years without going down,
Speaker 39: so it is better for them that way, better than
Speaker 39: shocking down.
Speaker 2: So it's a very very serious it should be limited
Speaker 2: to I think the government needs me to.
Speaker 10: Weigh, but for me, I just feel that dangle they themselves,
Speaker 10: the management shouldn't shouldn't have probably allowed this issue to
Speaker 10: get to this extent state. I think it's something that
Speaker 10: maybe the management need to learn from this. Number one
Speaker 10: things they need to work on this work as well.
Speaker 2: Off. I'm sure a lot of people doesn't even know
Speaker 2: what it looks like.
Speaker 39: It's certain for me believe that at least when like
Speaker 39: two people like maybe someone like myself, I'm working and
Speaker 39: I say another person that I feel that I'm better
Speaker 39: than knowledge wise these skills the better skills. Like at
Speaker 39: the end of the day you find out that these
Speaker 39: people would your office is better than your own, your
Speaker 39: sire just being treated like a safe worth nothing, but
Speaker 39: you do the actual job dead. So what happens possibly
Speaker 39: received it because this person is an Indian recording an
Speaker 39: extra to it, you know, looking at when both of
Speaker 39: you getting out there to the field to get maybe
Speaker 39: get things done, they stand aside and I'm lo you
Speaker 39: today because you're the wand that needs how this thing works.
Speaker 39: After doing all, at the end of the day, you're paycheck,
Speaker 39: you find out that this person and I'm gonna have
Speaker 39: it mostly four times what you have thought that for
Speaker 39: plus of allowances and everything.
Speaker 2: You'll be asking yourself, am I being a slavey or something?
Speaker 10: I think that's exactly what if the on day they
Speaker 10: sublet to do what they're supposed to.
Speaker 2: I don't think any of the stuff. If you want
Speaker 2: to go join the form of linium just the basic
Speaker 2: sue today.
Speaker 10: So for me, I just feel that they it's something
Speaker 10: they need to sit down the beat, go back to
Speaker 10: the board, are ment of certain things.
Speaker 2: I don't think that you acting so much.
Speaker 10: So some of this is really all human beings. So
Speaker 10: when they look at their counterparts working in a similar
Speaker 10: environment and seeing what comes out of them and probably
Speaker 10: see how their life face, well you find out everything
Speaker 10: Christ is.
Speaker 2: The fabily they troubling needed to fit.
Speaker 10: Why they find out that somebody may be cold, and
Speaker 10: they even things that they use begin to answers.
Speaker 2: Say why am I even there?
Speaker 39: Maybe they should have lady for them just to read
Speaker 39: maybe if probably they could read alone.
Speaker 2: So it happens a lot that I wuld experienced a.
Speaker 39: Couple of products sometimes just it's such an environment. And
Speaker 39: so that it came to literally expressed and saying if
Speaker 39: you do number, why you're going to be victimized, face
Speaker 39: some sort of assumption or even sack just because.
Speaker 2: You speak of so something.
Speaker 40: Every Way, everybody's likely scared to say something, even to
Speaker 40: discuss what they're going through outside with anybody, because once
Speaker 40: you have been noted that you have the one that
Speaker 40: is in might end up.
Speaker 2: Even like what they're going to so saying that that happened.
Speaker 2: So for me, I think organizations like that they leave
Speaker 2: me to see stuff.
Speaker 39: Well, for some people might not feelings alone, but that
Speaker 39: little difference actually they might not be an okay pays
Speaker 39: just like this estandish but actually something if somebody.
Speaker 2: Maybe at the end of the day, my hands and
Speaker 2: I still have maybe little, I think you might worry less.
Speaker 2: So I don't know.
Speaker 1: They let things, but let them things honestly speaking, right,
Speaker 1: what are the expatriates doing there? I think some of
Speaker 1: the Nigerians can do. Is it like learnything but working?
Speaker 2: What are you doing there?
Speaker 1: If you can be very very honest?
Speaker 39: Okay, okay, okay, I want I want to walk there. Yeah,
Speaker 39: no longer than what I want to walk there. With
Speaker 39: the construction on the guys, my area was instrument and control.
Speaker 10: Personally, I have It's people are drinking It's nan and
Speaker 10: they are pretty dream well.
Speaker 2: I trained eight engineers there.
Speaker 39: They came in the actually university graduates without much like
Speaker 39: an experience some of us who were brought in from
Speaker 39: the fame fields.
Speaker 2: For me, I left my phone. They're actually pushing lade
Speaker 2: me an offer. I went there, so I wasn't really
Speaker 2: like the dire star. I was more like a professional
Speaker 2: coming in there. So what were you This is that
Speaker 2: opportunity see what's going on there to start.
Speaker 39: Training our state, which I know that was why they
Speaker 39: haven't badly trainees.
Speaker 2: So those graduate trainees were attached to you, so we
Speaker 2: were more like a visor. They attached to you do
Speaker 2: things from there, were trying to train. So at some
Speaker 2: point of this show was like those best pattery. Some
Speaker 2: of them coming they more.
Speaker 10: Like even like like for me in my own team,
Speaker 10: I was more like the head of the thing there.
Speaker 2: How would they spatrate everybody? Give the direction?
Speaker 10: But at some point to find out it's more like
Speaker 10: a parents. So they have their own people who bring
Speaker 10: us what are is that they.
Speaker 39: Tend to make it impossible for our guys there to
Speaker 39: lay like I'm trying trying to tell you.
Speaker 2: A practical experience.
Speaker 10: So in this very more because probably they might alclumpire
Speaker 10: you in some ways, maybe because of the hierarchy of
Speaker 10: how things works. So some of us because of maybe
Speaker 10: we have no way to lose I'm coming from.
Speaker 39: How some of us skinning there, we are not of
Speaker 39: any quit because even evening, I can work up to more.
Speaker 2: Walking and I can leave.
Speaker 1: I want to why why do they have them again?
Speaker 1: I'm asking again, are they technical? People are training? The
Speaker 1: people go today with their finders to work. Just want
Speaker 1: to just get to the personal.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, come to be fair to you, to be
Speaker 2: fair to they.
Speaker 10: Okay, some of them are actually hiding technical both at
Speaker 10: long and long. They're just more like the ground level
Speaker 10: trying equally trying to learn. The prople of them are
Speaker 10: trying to learn on the job there, so it's more
Speaker 10: like at the same part with our people. I'm half
Speaker 10: from those of managers, the managers of this, this provice
Speaker 10: of this those are one actually say, oh, these are
Speaker 10: highly skilled in level.
Speaker 2: How people are calling at the same level. But it's
Speaker 2: see most of those of those I think that some
Speaker 2: of them doesn't even know what this thing is?
Speaker 1: Where? Where?
Speaker 2: Where?
Speaker 1: Where did they?
Speaker 2: I don't know, Honestly, I don't know.
Speaker 10: Like I told you now where I was see I
Speaker 10: knew people doing among those Patrick when they can do
Speaker 10: more like before you spend two three four loans here
Speaker 10: with the becomes go their length.
Speaker 2: But initially when they confer that they don't know, can
Speaker 2: differciate it.
Speaker 10: From being they tend to learn from there, and you
Speaker 10: know that they learn, they tend to bring more people
Speaker 10: of the old.
Speaker 2: People there to learn from them.
Speaker 10: But when that starts up, we see them trying to
Speaker 10: shield our people from into trying to learn more.
Speaker 2: That's how all started happening.
Speaker 41: So it's more like, okay, you have feelings Indians, kay,
Speaker 41: once one of dosing, the tend to lend no exactly
Speaker 41: what's going on teaching you will finding out to make
Speaker 41: sure that if an Asian guy is dead, like for example,
Speaker 41: you want to create we want to do this configurution.
Speaker 10: They just make it in such a way a little
Speaker 10: bit more impossible for a guy need to follow up
Speaker 10: like you.
Speaker 1: No, No, okay, interesting, I hear you. Interesting. Thanks for
Speaker 1: much for the for.
Speaker 2: I believe will be allowed to go down for any reason.
Speaker 2: So it's some putting that.
Speaker 1: All of them can sit down and work up. Just yeah,
Speaker 1: the Minister of Finals has pleased a very very lengthy statements.
Speaker 1: Minister of Finance. Here are still the United the crude
Speaker 1: for Narra is still going on and they're also talking
Speaker 1: with the Pangasen and the Dogot team. There will be
Speaker 1: no issues with you with outage of few products. So
Speaker 1: the feral mistry of enounces on it, the pharragment is
Speaker 1: on it, so hopefully this will be resolved. If you
Speaker 1: I've gotten to this. They were a bit slow in
Speaker 1: my view to get to this, but they are on it.
Speaker 1: It's a high powered allgation. Mister budget. The fi RS
Speaker 1: chairman is also there, receives also, their NPC is there,
Speaker 1: Dangote is their AFRE exit bank is also there. So
Speaker 1: if very very high power that get committing with pengersen
Speaker 1: to resolve the issue. So that is fantastic to know.
Speaker 1: Let's get to do better, do better. Hide sir, h.
Speaker 2: I'm finding a b from you can hear me?
Speaker 1: I can, sir, I can, Okay, So.
Speaker 2: Thank you for the space.
Speaker 36: I've listened to both sides, and I've tried to understand
Speaker 36: both sides.
Speaker 2: I get the both sides.
Speaker 36: Will they have a case for their actions and good
Speaker 36: will speak against fenal stuff by your fan and those
Speaker 36: against actions taken by the unions. We can talk for
Speaker 36: hours and I feel like every side, like feel like
Speaker 36: it makes sense. So first, there's just some misconcepts, misconceptions
Speaker 36: in the conversation that I just want to first clarify
Speaker 36: for me, in my experience, child.
Speaker 2: Does not exist to.
Speaker 36: Protect the interests and stuff HI is to protect the
Speaker 36: interests of the company, whatever company, So we parentully expect
Speaker 36: HR being proactive in looking after the interests of the
Speaker 36: Dongte stuff.
Speaker 2: For the second part is.
Speaker 36: I think the speaker earlier winning I think was her
Speaker 36: name was not happy with the way he runs his refinery,
Speaker 36: and I get the last peaker also it is not
Speaker 36: happy about that. But at the end of ready, no
Speaker 36: one is supposed to work as is zero some game
Speaker 36: this refinery, like you've kept on saying, it's critical to
Speaker 36: the Enjurians, So as a zero game, there was some
Speaker 36: game when injurians are the main consideration. This if I
Speaker 36: can't stop so no one is supposed to work, you
Speaker 36: can if you think he's not running his refine, me
Speaker 36: the way you want it. And about staff packages both
Speaker 36: local and display stuff, I think this is a common
Speaker 36: thing in international businesses as well, that staff who are
Speaker 36: displaced gets a separate contract from stuff who are local.
Speaker 36: And this this I think is normal for at least
Speaker 36: for the international companies that I've worked for. This place
Speaker 36: stuff have always have a better package than than local
Speaker 36: stuff for the disparity being as high as the last
Speaker 36: speaker said, well, I feel I feel that that is
Speaker 36: something that's Yes, it underlines the need for a union.
Speaker 36: But I do know if Pengerson or an external union
Speaker 36: and this this I'm asking this as a question to
Speaker 36: you and to other speakers more morenledgeable in this field,
Speaker 36: that our internal union the physible solution in this in
Speaker 36: this thing like it could there be don't refined real
Speaker 36: workers' union where staff welfare can be discussed with HR
Speaker 36: will be representing the company.
Speaker 8: A rightful place or is or is this also like
Speaker 8: something that's that.
Speaker 2: Is not possible at this time? Then the last thing?
Speaker 36: Sorry, you can answer when I still say the last thing,
Speaker 36: because that would be my last contribution. I believe that
Speaker 36: unions should not have executive power. I don't think anybody
Speaker 36: order than sin book should have the power to shot
Speaker 36: over our pipe and slop of our electicity of nobody.
Speaker 2: And the reason why the.
Speaker 36: Executive even has that power is because there are others
Speaker 36: types of government, legislative and the judiciary.
Speaker 2: That can't check his power.
Speaker 36: There's no way that union can wake up in the
Speaker 36: morning and just see shot off the energy sector, like
Speaker 36: it doesn't make sense for me. For me, honestly, I
Speaker 36: read the last letter from Donte where it described it
Speaker 36: as a terrorist act and that's my perception of it
Speaker 36: as well. That's this is econonomic terrorism, Like how do
Speaker 36: you wake up in the morning and assume the power
Speaker 36: of the executive power to put so many people on
Speaker 36: as such distress for employee benefits come on.
Speaker 2: So that's about it for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's a lot going on that will
Speaker 1: never ever know from a space or from student by
Speaker 1: two parts of that world. But I think the issue
Speaker 1: is this right, there were issues men that go say internally,
Speaker 1: and I think the staff wanted to have a TED
Speaker 1: party with quote unquote power to come on your side. Yes,
Speaker 1: you can have your internal union board. If come the
Speaker 1: management says no, what do you do? You remember you
Speaker 1: were paid by the management, so usually you knows are
Speaker 1: TED party because they should come in and act as
Speaker 1: a false multiplier on the side of the of the
Speaker 1: employees against the employer, which is what Pengerson was on.
Speaker 1: So I don't think they were wrong in going to Pengerson.
Speaker 1: I only I feel where it really broke down was
Speaker 1: Pengerson adopting this militant approach to say we're going to
Speaker 1: shut you down. If they don't hear us, you know,
Speaker 1: they can't say they're negotiated. But once you put the objects,
Speaker 1: like a doctor telling you, hey, can you take a
Speaker 1: multivitam means if you don't take a multivitamins, I'll shoot
Speaker 1: you with a gun.
Speaker 2: What is that?
Speaker 1: The multivitamins are good for you, but you're going to
Speaker 1: shoot you with the gun. It's a different topic entirely.
Speaker 1: So they could have negotiated with that. Everything knows that
Speaker 1: they're powerful union. They like someone has said, they control pipeline,
Speaker 1: they control this, they control that. So negotiate for a
Speaker 1: put of strength and say, hey, this is what your
Speaker 1: employees have said, can you do this for them?
Speaker 42: And all that.
Speaker 1: But once you go in there, look at the language
Speaker 1: they're using. We're going to do this, We're going to
Speaker 1: do that. Then they actually go and say, hey, shut
Speaker 1: down the oil pipelines. Now what they've revealed is that
Speaker 1: it is possible to shut down the oil pipeline. That's
Speaker 1: what they've rebuilt out and into the open. So it's
Speaker 1: just the man i as we say, the manner of
Speaker 1: approach of the tanker thing that's I think is where
Speaker 1: I think it has the words what's gone. They could
Speaker 1: have come back and say, hey, call it to back,
Speaker 1: do address the ppees address all this. No, we will
Speaker 1: step back, but call them back address the issue they
Speaker 1: have raised before us. We will step back, but you
Speaker 1: go ahead and address what they have said they wanted
Speaker 1: you to address, and we are going to leave you
Speaker 1: or re find you alone for you. It's a private
Speaker 1: company that they can't just simply say because we're strategic,
Speaker 1: therefore we can do what we want. You can shut
Speaker 1: us down. That will also be bad on their part.
Speaker 1: But here that well, I think both sides have just agree.
Speaker 1: He said, there's not a big there's not a big disagreement.
Speaker 1: They're not talking environments pollution or it's not like a
Speaker 1: goody Land issue. It's a simple issue that it can
Speaker 1: sit down like they don't sit down over lunch. What
Speaker 1: is the issue? How much is ppe? PPLE cannot cost
Speaker 1: a million dollars to kick everybody in Dangote and every
Speaker 1: Dango the company. So I would go Dangote, who just
Speaker 1: send onto we put the guy here to this space
Speaker 1: that does PPE in Nigeria. A guy on this space
Speaker 1: walk class. Go up there and tell these guys give
Speaker 1: them ten kids of PPE. That's if you can bring
Speaker 1: in four thousand trucks supply every workout PPE. If you
Speaker 1: go to Amazon, they have a p what's it called,
Speaker 1: like a vending machine. You go to the vending machine,
Speaker 1: you're plug in your information. It gives you PPE on
Speaker 1: the spot. There's no issue to this, like an ATM
Speaker 1: machine in your office for their staff. So when you
Speaker 1: come in, you hit the machine. You want to glove
Speaker 1: or you want eyeglasses, you hit the machine. It is
Speaker 1: Bundy to you right there. Maybe you are here your
Speaker 1: PPE at home. That's how don't give any allowed once
Speaker 1: for any boy to go and say there's no how
Speaker 1: can they go to white heilments. Come on man, hey, Brihanim,
Speaker 1: I'm hopping around, okay for it?
Speaker 2: Brian, Yeah, yeah, I'm good, yes, right yeah.
Speaker 43: I think if if held on what I wanted to
Speaker 43: to talk on, I think, to me, you really needs
Speaker 43: a consensus. We we we have to find a way
Speaker 43: for elite to agree that this is where the country
Speaker 43: will go and these are no good areas because these
Speaker 43: are the.
Speaker 2: Things that will protect investments like this.
Speaker 43: Twenty billion dollars is not a simple amount of money
Speaker 43: to particular country.
Speaker 2: And two years to the start of the project, we're
Speaker 2: having issues like this.
Speaker 43: I believe what I've seen missing in this Pegerson And finally,
Speaker 43: older these are CEO.
Speaker 2: Management people with.
Speaker 1: Yest of experience.
Speaker 2: I told her I would.
Speaker 43: See emotional intelligence in play, you know, engagement happening, kind
Speaker 43: of regulating themselves and you know we need to discuss
Speaker 43: ABCD but we didn't fort issues.
Speaker 2: Of two hours.
Speaker 8: What do I see?
Speaker 1: I lost you.
Speaker 43: I'm growing up within the country that there are ways
Speaker 43: to solve problems, not only these.
Speaker 2: Fire And.
Speaker 43: Lastly, I think diesel finery is a big refinery. It
Speaker 43: only started two years ago. That I believe that soors
Speaker 43: have standards, but we don't expect them massive refinery like
Speaker 43: places within two.
Speaker 2: Years to be at the level of companies that.
Speaker 43: Have been in existence in that sector for.
Speaker 2: Forty sixty sixty eighty years.
Speaker 1: So possible.
Speaker 2: So I think there should have.
Speaker 44: Been some kind of I had a speaker see ten
Speaker 44: years kind of protection for such investments which will have
Speaker 44: a rebisdom to learn from their mistakes and also improve
Speaker 44: their systems and improve their standards within that period at
Speaker 44: least ten such tandars.
Speaker 2: It is good to make mistakes, learn from them and
Speaker 2: get improved them.
Speaker 43: But all I'm saying is fire and brigade this union today,
Speaker 43: this problem after tomorrow.
Speaker 2: This investment really needs to be kind of a start
Speaker 2: of Nigeria's development.
Speaker 43: We need more people to say, Okay, if this guy
Speaker 43: can do this, we can do it, and people should
Speaker 43: not be afraid to do it.
Speaker 2: But if we're doing fighting over.
Speaker 43: Multimall things and mult small issues, who else will bring.
Speaker 2: His investment to this country if we're moving like that.
Speaker 43: So I think we really need to have an a
Speaker 43: different approach to the way we do things and to
Speaker 43: really our word process.
Speaker 2: Everything is not about fight or it's our yea, you're down,
Speaker 2: round down. That's not the way life is. So we
Speaker 2: just have to improve the way we do things. So
Speaker 2: thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Appreciate your comments, sir. That was worth taking. I imagine
Speaker 1: while you've got to Brian, thank you so much. I
Speaker 1: have a dream work. I am a dream work. Please
Speaker 1: go ahead a lot daily on Lami day, all lot
Speaker 1: daily on Lammi Day.
Speaker 2: I thank you. I love that.
Speaker 1: I do you want to go ahead? The love that
Speaker 1: can go ahead, You go ahead, sir, Okay, yes, thank
Speaker 1: you very much.
Speaker 5: Okay, Now, but I will say that both Dangloe and
Speaker 5: they want the Panhassen and government are all at fault.
Speaker 2: Yes, we've not had the peaks from everybody. Everybody.
Speaker 5: This is they did not they did not fire these
Speaker 5: guys because the joint gion.
Speaker 2: Let's believe them.
Speaker 5: Right in the communities, you will find out we see
Speaker 5: the truth. Penthass is probably be fired because of.
Speaker 2: The joint the union. Let's believe that we have to
Speaker 2: prove right.
Speaker 5: And I think that the issue is we want to
Speaker 5: trust issues from Dango side. I'm from Penas because I
Speaker 5: worked in travers for like six years from twenty three
Speaker 5: two thousand two, as a very young boy two thousand
Speaker 5: and eight. Right, we found ourselves as a contract staff. Right,
Speaker 5: I was shaven several sets as contracts. Right, we send
Speaker 5: a very unfortunate contract.
Speaker 2: Right, the contact is.
Speaker 8: Play like four hundred.
Speaker 4: Well as.
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, we ended hundred.
Speaker 5: Two hundreds all the things we want, Right, we made
Speaker 5: so much progress as individuals. Then where we joined union.
Speaker 5: All your sor was that you know it's going to
Speaker 5: some money in our hands. Right, the so called leaders
Speaker 5: of those unions in our company spend time in legos
Speaker 5: at legos when because at the months spend money and
Speaker 5: all that progress.
Speaker 2: So I don't trust for this. You knows what that
Speaker 2: doesn't take away I needed right, everybody dropped the board
Speaker 2: in the governments. And I would gu say that if
Speaker 2: it was during.
Speaker 5: Barri's time, this challenge is on his own necessary he
Speaker 5: should be protected.
Speaker 2: But yes he also should be also as well. He
Speaker 2: has not done. He has not This is his first
Speaker 2: attempt oil and gas. Right, so a lot of pasily
Speaker 2: not know. Do you understand?
Speaker 5: And if I also believe that if done, God's playing well,
Speaker 5: if he had better wellfare his staff, no body will
Speaker 5: want to join union.
Speaker 2: If everything is going on well, people don't want to
Speaker 2: join union. So what is a fair wage for someone
Speaker 2: in that industry? Understand? Can't tell me that? Accuse you
Speaker 2: to in that drivers out to make three times four
Speaker 2: times anymore.
Speaker 5: Began gas truck truck drivers as specialists three times me
Speaker 5: always about to to fifty thousand.
Speaker 2: I own truck years ago.
Speaker 5: They listen those guys as at that time I can't
Speaker 5: deep a driver.
Speaker 2: I would look from our port to cany we.
Speaker 5: Know is allow us three thousand, that is, allow us
Speaker 5: to go.
Speaker 2: To came and come back. I'm talking about two years ago.
Speaker 2: If me or in the informatic.
Speaker 5: Drivers in Trump drivers within as much as four.
Speaker 2: Five hundred thousand, while you.
Speaker 5: I said any more than that we talk about I
Speaker 5: don't want I don't want to believe that in that's
Speaker 5: the fascility that issue.
Speaker 2: But we see that drivers and the drivers were keepd with.
Speaker 2: Once we see all that, then I keep it. I
Speaker 2: didn't change. So the issues, yes, we cannot shot that.
Speaker 2: We cannot say because you have done this, then everything
Speaker 2: he does is right.
Speaker 5: So everyone needs to see down and that this issue
Speaker 5: the government, this government has been so responsible. Don't don't
Speaker 5: want to this guy, I know he comes out of
Speaker 5: the truth is I don't see that it is.
Speaker 2: Government that said about that. How can the government.
Speaker 5: Official comment with that, with the products are not are
Speaker 5: not got to stand that the government official and he
Speaker 5: still has his job. How can he be fighting to
Speaker 5: get it just to get to this point?
Speaker 2: And Begger said, okay, what if that said, look he's
Speaker 2: not gonna doing. What is I gont going to do?
Speaker 5: It's got to shut down his reprival forms.
Speaker 2: What would they do?
Speaker 5: You don't You're not started at all, and you're shotting
Speaker 5: me down to shot down everything you know?
Speaker 2: Are you? Are you not going to? Is this is
Speaker 2: your really? This is your best guard? And I don't
Speaker 2: think it is necessary. I mean, the.
Speaker 5: Autist are all right, they should sit down and have
Speaker 5: a conversation.
Speaker 2: But what I know is that there is trust.
Speaker 5: Issues from all sides and the many peoples who are experienced,
Speaker 5: you shouldn't be doing this at this time. If they
Speaker 5: are really experts, were trained blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: It shouldn't be building like.
Speaker 30: You.
Speaker 2: You are route. You can't be threating people like this, right?
Speaker 5: Are they concerned about the only new level stuff or
Speaker 5: they're concerned about on the you be part of Bengas.
Speaker 1: I commonly get the sentiment. I think that there was
Speaker 1: too side. I think we're coming to a good, good
Speaker 1: conclusion and there are two sides today and I'm both
Speaker 1: are all wrong and saying they should go and seek,
Speaker 1: you know, forgiveness all day. They got a day.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, good gay.
Speaker 10: So to your first you asked the question. On the
Speaker 10: other time set, you asked, why are the Indians? Yes, patrially,
Speaker 10: but the working at the refinery. Believe, yes, I believe
Speaker 10: it's because of the influence of the Vice resident.
Speaker 2: That's the Dekmar Edwin. That's just nobody. But what is there?
Speaker 1: We know, we know he's India, but what they there
Speaker 1: like they just can't.
Speaker 10: Be there at his influence, you know, probably he needs
Speaker 10: He has people at BA in India that I want
Speaker 10: to hear a chance and things. I believe he influenced.
Speaker 10: I believe that his only influence.
Speaker 1: Okay, I got a DM. Somebody is saying that I
Speaker 1: also work in Dangote, and yes, they are Indians there,
Speaker 1: and he says that they will learn faster and are
Speaker 1: doing the job faster. That's what this guy is sending
Speaker 1: me a d M now. And I understand what you're
Speaker 1: saying that because in the VP is India and he's
Speaker 1: brought some people there, remember, and I just work trained
Speaker 1: in India. Indians also built the refinery. The Indian Us
Speaker 1: build the refinery also. We just can't say it's because
Speaker 1: he wants to bring these people.
Speaker 2: They built it.
Speaker 1: Go ahead on there.
Speaker 2: As in fact.
Speaker 1: Patrick, he was saying that yeah, maybe maybe this one's
Speaker 1: will go to Katar But I think the point that
Speaker 1: we just can simply just say the VP is Indian,
Speaker 1: so he brought Indians. Indians build the place, and you know,
Speaker 1: I forget the refinery. If you want to build a
Speaker 1: house and legos today? Who does your pop? Let's be honest,
Speaker 1: who does your pop today? Just be honest? Who does
Speaker 1: your leg?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 45: Because we all have all this like, well that's we
Speaker 45: we have that skill gaping nights for real, not the
Speaker 45: engineers that I go to the b C, but those
Speaker 45: guys I get their hands dirty.
Speaker 1: We haven't looking organizers. We don't have that skill and
Speaker 1: that skill level and night is lacking. We have pure
Speaker 1: big guys. Real, if you want to do that, shall walk?
Speaker 1: Who do you call? Do you tell me? Don't you
Speaker 1: see there? So we've left that that education to life
Speaker 1: follow and I think we're paying for it because why
Speaker 1: would they would they import Indians if Nigeria's could do
Speaker 1: the job, honestly, not honest? Do you think they really
Speaker 1: invite your mask? You know, would the only import a
Speaker 1: lot of Indians if the Nigerians were available to do
Speaker 1: this job like they they are. I don't truck drivers.
Speaker 1: They haven't imported any Indian truck driver, because then I
Speaker 1: drant truck drivers, but they don't know a drunk trucks.
Speaker 1: They will have important Indian truck drivers too, I think.
Speaker 1: But go ahead to a major point. I don't want to.
Speaker 2: So, I mean you're trying to do understand that.
Speaker 10: When he started doing the final I was so si
Speaker 10: appele about it because indeed a good development.
Speaker 2: And imagine that they go going down. Do you know
Speaker 2: what do you know what it means to to the economy.
Speaker 10: Actually you said something like that, and then even achieve
Speaker 10: in our one the brids, you will forget that achievement,
Speaker 10: the one chillion dollars a colony. If dangled they goes down,
Speaker 10: it will be will be active ato. And then he
Speaker 10: said about that would have sat before that he will.
Speaker 1: Like list is refinery, jurance.
Speaker 2: Chest, so all this will still need dangled, like you
Speaker 2: all said.
Speaker 10: So another thing is that I don't want to be
Speaker 10: biased about I understand what about the Indians baness and
Speaker 10: then this chariness.
Speaker 2: See these people are put we don't need if we
Speaker 2: need development, not okay, okay, sorry, I I these people need.
Speaker 10: Maybe if there's a way they can be trained professionally
Speaker 10: whereby they will know how to relate to the durance
Speaker 10: is I believe it's just money. Probably maybe Dangled is
Speaker 10: not getting enough information or I put it or the
Speaker 10: right information to help in the right decision. Okay, I
Speaker 10: just believe Urias work has been a need need they
Speaker 10: need they need good wealth here too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you know, you know, if just that's I know,
Speaker 1: if we can go let me use slang, you know,
Speaker 1: even Ina, we have words that we call Cora. You know, Cora,
Speaker 1: you know, so we know these things and so, but
Speaker 1: it just I don't know. I don't want to go
Speaker 1: there because it's recorded and all that. Ah, jeez, General,
Speaker 1: please go ahead, General, guys, we've got a few time
Speaker 1: to round up. I think we had a very very
Speaker 1: spretter discussion. If you've been listening, I think you've gotten
Speaker 1: the better sense of live what's going on in the
Speaker 1: whole in Braglu with within that gote and the pairs
Speaker 1: and the unions, there's a lot happened has happened. I
Speaker 1: think with the space that tried to bring all those
Speaker 1: options open, we've had a very very open space. I
Speaker 1: am a own buyers, but trying to keep my bias
Speaker 1: out of it and not allow the space to go
Speaker 1: on all ours that say is it is strategically important
Speaker 1: in sector Naguia. So with that in mind, we should
Speaker 1: run and negos to show with that in.
Speaker 42: Thank you very much, Calum. And it is one thing
Speaker 42: I'm happy about the way going to everyone as well.
Speaker 42: Sorry I didn't start that way. If there's one thing
Speaker 42: I'm happy with about this space is that new Carlo
Speaker 42: I beginning to take. Sorry, and this is more attack.
Speaker 42: You know, I followed the conversations as I saw your
Speaker 42: opinion that you expressed them. But please, I don't know,
Speaker 42: you don't understand me. But the fact is that you
Speaker 42: are beginning to see that this is the wider issue now.
Speaker 2: When they started, because I have worked in public.
Speaker 42: Sector, private sector in time junior team, and when they started.
Speaker 2: I'm really said as a liberal relations issue.
Speaker 42: Right, and the problems this this got deeper because trust,
Speaker 42: you know, trust is the currency in itself and in
Speaker 42: Nigeria there.
Speaker 2: Seems to be a lack of trust among many.
Speaker 42: Nigerians and industry players for Dangotism about Dangotists motives.
Speaker 2: So these whole thing that the leader and the run
Speaker 2: up to this whole.
Speaker 42: Situation, there was the new paying issue right, because of
Speaker 42: the trucks Dugard they had you know, acquired and was
Speaker 42: bringing in and you know, and you would agree that
Speaker 42: a lot of the Opian guys argued that Dangwade was
Speaker 42: taken over another industry even though related to his refinding,
Speaker 42: but he was kind of stepping into their own spece.
Speaker 2: So that is one issue.
Speaker 42: The other thing is that we knew capitalist captaliesn't have
Speaker 42: the excessive pun checked right.
Speaker 2: And I also agree that Dangote is very strategic to Nigeria.
Speaker 42: In fact, like I said, I had put in one
Speaker 42: of my twits, I said that Dango should be in
Speaker 42: national security assets. Their finally should be national secretary. It's
Speaker 42: not just the matter of national importance. It should be
Speaker 42: a national security that should be surveilers, that should be
Speaker 42: protection for thats for the refinery because it is very important.
Speaker 42: Footler has long time economica developments. However, unions are needed.
Speaker 2: To moderate capitalism in a way, and that's what they
Speaker 2: all do now.
Speaker 42: On the Plangerson issue, Issu if you if you're understand
Speaker 42: playing Gerson the way I think from what I've seen,
Speaker 42: these are senior staff.
Speaker 2: Most of these guys are from the oil and gas set.
Speaker 2: The winnowing manager. They are okay, resably ok right.
Speaker 5: Their leaderships may have issues, but in generality, the people
Speaker 5: are ok.
Speaker 1: They're blocking.
Speaker 2: That was excessive, that wasted. I agree that that was excessive. Right. However,
Speaker 2: right you all you should also agree.
Speaker 42: That sucking for eight hundred or other hundred staff and
Speaker 42: one swoop was also excessive.
Speaker 1: I agree, I agree two wrongs.
Speaker 2: Two wrongs don't make it right. And unfortunately, you know
Speaker 2: it drew first blood when he sacked those people. Well understand,
Speaker 2: he drew first blow where his saccident. Now, if you
Speaker 2: tie the fact that there.
Speaker 42: Is distrust for Dangote being from his ancestors before the answers,
Speaker 42: because the people feel his monopolice and all that, If
Speaker 42: you're tied the fact that there is distrust for him,
Speaker 42: you can understand why there's.
Speaker 2: A reaction to what he had, what he's trying to do.
Speaker 2: And I think that's what's happened.
Speaker 42: So they take aways because I think when this largely
Speaker 42: comes to understanding issues, take away that dang needs to
Speaker 42: look back at his PRT.
Speaker 2: And see he's doing a lot of work lately, and.
Speaker 5: I recognize that trying to show people that, look, I'm
Speaker 5: not trying to be a monopolie, because I said at
Speaker 5: that time it's really frustrating for him.
Speaker 42: There was the time the US governmental released the statement
Speaker 42: that his business.
Speaker 2: Model was Immnigard to Andreia school.
Speaker 42: If I'm not mistaken, right, So I think he's really
Speaker 42: a lot of work to show that he is not.
Speaker 2: Trying to be a monopolie.
Speaker 42: It's only afrocentric trying to you know, pioneer African developments
Speaker 42: and all that, and that is very commendable.
Speaker 2: And that is why we must all stand by him.
Speaker 42: However, in the existing they said that a rat will
Speaker 42: not go and bite the relative and eat relatives.
Speaker 2: Doctors back and then the letters deliberately going to lose
Speaker 2: their rat fire. So when we when people when they
Speaker 2: are when there.
Speaker 42: Are missteps or people feel that they are missteps, there
Speaker 42: should be structures that are sailable right to call things
Speaker 42: back to order to sort of you know, alwayshape the systems.
Speaker 46: Now, last, let me say one then if you a
Speaker 46: lot of things happen in Nigeria, a lot of the problems,
Speaker 46: you see that it boths down to our need issues
Speaker 46: as a country.
Speaker 42: These things are permitting each and every sphere of our
Speaker 42: existence our collective resistance as a country, whether in unions,
Speaker 42: health care, education, whatever it is, the failings of our
Speaker 42: government and everything is permitted.
Speaker 2: What do we need to do.
Speaker 47: We need to begin to train leadership and we need
Speaker 47: to we need to begin to train people right to
Speaker 47: mentor people like people like I come for instance, salute
Speaker 47: to you. You have a strong platform. They're very brilliant person.
Speaker 42: The idea that stell and a stellar and I follow you,
Speaker 42: and I follow you because I get a lot of value.
Speaker 43: From what you say.
Speaker 2: Right, But to whom much is given, much is expected.
Speaker 2: People follow you because they respect what you say, well.
Speaker 42: What you say also ships, thinking, ships, mentality, ships, you
Speaker 42: know a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2: So you are in any position to also mental people
Speaker 2: and you do that very well.
Speaker 42: You know, you'll teach about economics and all that, irrespectable
Speaker 42: of all the abuse and everything you get.
Speaker 2: As a little for that. So generally, like I said
Speaker 2: to conclude, we have the actually problems. Unions have leadership
Speaker 2: problems as well.
Speaker 42: However, training and mentoring over years, we can e adicate.
Speaker 42: We can you know, all the set that of the
Speaker 42: people who are given a lot missions to go out
Speaker 42: and maybe we can have a better space in general.
Speaker 1: Thank you, all right, we'll take you. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Hopping here real quick. General, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: All right, thank you mister Calu.
Speaker 9: So, I just came into correct the impression regarding worlders
Speaker 9: that you mentioned.
Speaker 2: We have a lot of wilders.
Speaker 9: We have lots of training program if you're training institut,
Speaker 9: they have general welding programmed that they trail a lot
Speaker 9: of people.
Speaker 2: That is general.
Speaker 9: One is Ninemons and there is all any welding fabrication
Speaker 9: chen the welding of fabrication. And if you go to
Speaker 9: reduce state.
Speaker 2: Aquitement state they have more than four.
Speaker 9: That I know, at least four that I know well
Speaker 9: being fabrication training program well established, so educed it there
Speaker 9: is and it's not that they are being.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they after I look for Nagilance.
Speaker 9: Even when they did the construction of beet chemical, NA
Speaker 9: generality not.
Speaker 2: Have enough stuff. But what did they picked Nagela?
Speaker 9: What they expected that the white people that they brought
Speaker 9: they were not even Indians. They brought people from France, Germany, America.
Speaker 5: And places and they packed Nagelian and within three.
Speaker 48: Months always MOSTNA generals were able to learn and be
Speaker 48: expired being able to do the job.
Speaker 9: I don't know why Indians are still there, because Nigeans
Speaker 9: are not stupid. I've been around Nigeria. I was born
Speaker 9: and raised in Nigeria, so I know Nigelans are not
Speaker 9: to put. If you put langurary, you would train and
Speaker 9: attapt first. And another thing is the payment nagera in work.
Speaker 9: I should be paid well. Nigerian worka should be respected
Speaker 9: and treated with God courtesy. And we should not say
Speaker 9: because dan Coute is doing something that an MPCI destroyed,
Speaker 9: that we should allow.
Speaker 2: Him to tell us not really treating them well.
Speaker 9: None of their industry standard international We speak about international
Speaker 9: standard in many things, but when it comes to paying
Speaker 9: like during international standard which international witch that at.
Speaker 2: Least on the we we want to drive that to
Speaker 2: the bottom part. No, Nageli must be paid well. How
Speaker 2: can an engineer working.
Speaker 48: All said and not be able to you know, not
Speaker 48: paid according to the standard and not it's not going
Speaker 48: to be able to pay a vacation even within in Africa.
Speaker 2: No, which has to reflect including safety and every other thing.
Speaker 9: So then mister Carlo might want to you know, you know,
Speaker 9: anytime you speak on a giant issue. We have to
Speaker 9: also speak on the respect for Nagerian workers, including salary
Speaker 9: and the good working condition.
Speaker 1: Thank you all right, PRETI, I love that. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for let's know that we have all these
Speaker 1: workers around and all that okly technologies. You have the floor, sir.
Speaker 1: Thank you Ramsey that clarification that you gave.
Speaker 10: Thank you for handing the micro to me. So where
Speaker 10: I want to address a couple of issues where I want.
Speaker 2: To start this.
Speaker 10: First of all, the shutting down of Dangote refinery and
Speaker 10: disconnecting of stopping the floor of their gus the gas
Speaker 10: to the refinery is illegal and it's not something that
Speaker 10: shouldn't have happened. The reason why I said so, even
Speaker 10: the PENGA sent themselves, there was no I don't see
Speaker 10: it against any evidence that they followed the procedure of
Speaker 10: the labor unions in terms of the rules of engagement
Speaker 10: of you know, trying to call dog that attention to whatever.
Speaker 10: If they want to cause attention to giving notices, you know, complaining,
Speaker 10: you know.
Speaker 2: There's their procedures before you get to strike. Strike is
Speaker 2: always the last resort.
Speaker 10: If you look at Nanjieian Medical Association as there's.
Speaker 1: The way they go.
Speaker 10: Conspect, they don't just company there strike. There's always a process.
Speaker 10: So I didn't see that process being full of this.
Speaker 10: We started hearing this whole like a week ago, a
Speaker 10: week less than a week ago. And here we are
Speaker 10: shut down, stop flow of gus. That's that's wrong now. Secondly,
Speaker 10: or the dangledet or on the dangledere side to dangle
Speaker 10: there has also we can't take some schemiscies or breaking
Speaker 10: here and now to start with, we should first of
Speaker 10: all with the from slack bang has done. Something mustive
Speaker 10: for us right from slack now, because that all of
Speaker 10: us need to access this that this is the finality
Speaker 10: is less than two years. It's two years, about two
Speaker 10: years in fact before he started, you know, functioning in
Speaker 10: terms of refining continuously. It's less than a year and half.
Speaker 10: So what we need to ask our self is that
Speaker 10: is that the finery already profitable. Yes, they are asset
Speaker 10: to be amortized. Some of your loans are amortized to
Speaker 10: be paid over a period of time.
Speaker 2: But have we tried to in the last one and
Speaker 2: half years look at the books of Tang with it.
Speaker 10: I don't know whether he has put his financial statement
Speaker 10: in public and all of that. So because if you're
Speaker 10: if you're alf of a company, you should your primary
Speaker 10: objective is let my company sor see it's my complete
Speaker 10: profitable this while I'm drawing is it?
Speaker 2: Where is it being drawn from this company? Are they
Speaker 2: in a good financial.
Speaker 10: Position for me to first form continuously join my current.
Speaker 2: Salary and non big demands for a higher salary. We
Speaker 2: all walk if you see.
Speaker 10: Let's look at the banking industry in Nigia as an example.
Speaker 10: It's unbanded industry. It's an indorstede that has so much
Speaker 10: strike that it be gave me a more for almost
Speaker 10: every other industry. Who is talking about strike in the
Speaker 10: banking industries to do or.
Speaker 2: Whether you belong to you know or you don't belong
Speaker 2: to you you know?
Speaker 10: They're about twenty four twenty five banks in Nigeria today.
Speaker 10: Who is talking about stride? It's only one bank. I
Speaker 10: don't know what I should meant mentioned their name. It's
Speaker 10: only one bank that I know that that that's that
Speaker 10: they're saf joining union, you know, and they're allowed to
Speaker 10: at the point of your employment, they will actually you
Speaker 10: want to be part of union if you want to
Speaker 10: say yes, it's often that they will put they will
Speaker 10: sign you on and the union will be the debuty
Speaker 10: every month.
Speaker 2: For their for their labies or what their union fee.
Speaker 10: Probably the bank it is over one hundred years, so
Speaker 10: they are members of PUC. It's over one hundred year
Speaker 10: plus bank about yet, so that is it so and
Speaker 10: because there because that president has been there, the bank
Speaker 10: could would no longer to copy.
Speaker 2: So they are out with even and they can.
Speaker 10: But the current new generational bank the tony lose did
Speaker 10: you move yours bank?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 10: Starting like you're there because as as a banker, you
Speaker 10: even you are so treated well, you know, if you're.
Speaker 2: Not happy with where you are, you have the next
Speaker 2: band to go to.
Speaker 10: It starts sending us around before you know you starts
Speaker 10: your interview before you know you larn the land the job.
Speaker 10: Now they're also a free tech that it's now directly
Speaker 10: you know, putting bankers you know from the commercial banks,
Speaker 10: you know, so dog they shoot.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, the the.
Speaker 10: The referral industry which is downstream, has regulator. So it's
Speaker 10: for the revelator to see how they nunderstand that that
Speaker 10: is the industry bring more finalities on board so that
Speaker 10: there will be, they will become from some sort of competition,
Speaker 10: not just for the defining business, but for evil for employees.
Speaker 10: If I know that bangle taste not doing the world,
Speaker 10: I'll go to who are finite?
Speaker 31: Our go to?
Speaker 2: What has me? Our? Go to? Our? Go to who
Speaker 2: you know?
Speaker 10: There are places so and that is what creates growth
Speaker 10: and depends.
Speaker 2: You know, employee benefits in an industry.
Speaker 10: Right, So let's for me, let's cut down with this
Speaker 10: from slack. Let's ask about how well is he doing
Speaker 10: the salaries that we are good We are demanding him
Speaker 10: to pay and he pays or does he need to borrow.
Speaker 1: Money or go and deep money?
Speaker 10: Depends in these cements his men business to sustain very finite.
Speaker 10: If you're working for a company, you need to be
Speaker 10: You need to also be compassionate. You need to make
Speaker 10: sure that we pray for that company to succeed so
Speaker 10: that some of the demands that you are making can
Speaker 10: be tradied and not just to sit down and.
Speaker 2: Be making a national demands.
Speaker 10: You don't care whether you don't care whether your company
Speaker 10: is profitable or not. All you want is just to
Speaker 10: draw the salary. So the point I'm making is less
Speaker 10: languages from slack also has a job