Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Siko's I am Dan Valley coming
at you with the certified fantabulous mister Grant Hughes the offseason,
look ahead, trained soldiers, onward, folks. We're onto the Denver
Nuggets who lost in the second round and now they
have an off season to go through. Grant, are you
ready to dive in?
Speaker 2: Let's dive in like a like a wild eyed Russell
Westbrook attempt on the rim.
Speaker 1: Hopefully we will have more makes than missus.
Speaker 3: Let's turn it right over.
Speaker 1: Okay, So I want to start with the Jokic quote
because he was right when he said afterwards, I think
a lot of people I saw a lot of Kevin
Durant trade scenarios out there, but Jokic said, we definitely
need to figure out a way to get more depth.
It seems like the teams that have longer rotations, the
longer benches are the ones winning. You look at Indiana
and OKC and Minnesota and they have been great examples
of that. I tend to agree with him. The Knicks
are really kind of the only exception right now. And
when you go to kind of look at pick your
favorite catch all and then look at the average of teammates.
Like when you look at the top twenty five stars,
there's like two or three that have average teammates in
the net negative. Nicole Jokic is one of them. But
all the teams that are kind of standing, whether it's
John Brunton, Shay Anthony Edwards, like those guys are in
the positives. So I think there's would you agree with
Jokic's over art, not even just in regard to the Nuggets,
but do you think that depth has become more of
a postseason weapon?
Speaker 2: Well, the contrarian in me wants to push back and say, like, well,
you need depth a lot less if your starting power
forward has two good hamstrings and you're starting small forward
has two good shoulders, you know.
Speaker 3: What I mean?
Speaker 2: Like, I think I work I'm working big to small
a little bit more with this problem, like of the
talent issue, because like I don't know, the Knicks aren't deep.
Speaker 3: They made it.
Speaker 2: They made it around farther than the than the Nuggets. Still,
although like the Knicks do have I mean, I like
the guys that actually do play off the next bench
a lot better than anybody that plays off of Denver's bench.
So I think He's probably right, and I guess too,
to kind of get us pivoting into like what can
the Nuggets do or what should they do? It's it's
a lot easier to get depth than it is to
like get another star or you know what I mean,
Like to solve this this talent issue at the top
end of the roster. It's not gonna be easy for
them spoiler, It's not gonna be easy for Denver to
add talent anywhere. But I think it's more manageable if
you can say, like, well, if we just hit on
this minimum guy or something and he can become a
better six seventh, eighth guy than what we've got. That's
not impossible. But you know, if you're thinking of improving
at the top of the roster, it's gonna be Michael
Porter Junior and pray, like figure, hope something comes together.
Speaker 1: Well in somebody. That's why getting depth could be harder
than pulling off a bigger move. But before we get
to that, I think we'll start with the Yokich extension.
He's eligible to sign a three year, two hundred and
twelve point five million dollar extension that would pay him
RAN seventy six million dollars in the final season, which
was be two and twenty nine, two thousand and thirty,
contrary to two thousand and thirty nine two thousand and thirty,
like I have up on the screen, he'd be thirty
four at that point. You absolutely offer it, and I
the assumption, at least that was per the reporting at ESPN.
People believe he's going to sign it. He could just
wait and sign a four year, two hundred and ninety
three point four million dollar extension next summer, in which case,
by the way, in the final year, the numbers just
it'll be less than thirty five percent of the cap,
but he'd be making eighty one point two million dollars
in the final year of that deal in his age
thirty five season that runs through twenty thirty thirty one.
What I I guess My point here is, do you
think there's a chance that he doesn't sign it? As
a way of I'm gonna preface it with this, this
is not, oh, should the Nuggets be worried that Yoga
is gonna leave. It's kind of just the opposite. If
I am Yokich. However, I know that all these players
have just been signing extensions because then you can sign
another one in two years, and that's kind of the
new way of maximizing, maximizing your earning potential. If I'm him,
I'm not signing it because they're gonna max me out
next summer at whatever deal I want anyway, no matter
what happens, and I don't he's not going to agitate.
That's not his style, it doesn't seem like. But keep
the pressure on the front office to earn continue to
earn your loyalty. By hey, we can't go into this
offseason and do things like not you'll materially change up
the let's say, the back half of our rotation. And
they've already I'm not saying David Adelman isn't the right guy,
but making him your head coach before having a front
office figurehead in place. That's weird, like, and it seems
like it's becoming more common in the NBA for some reason,
which I also don't understand.
Speaker 2: The Kings love to do it. That's that's maybe not
a good blue prince of fall. That's their favorite thing
to do is get the coach top executive cycle backwards.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I I my first thought was like I think he'll
do extension wise whatever, like whatever creates the least amount
of uncertainty or hassle or headache or controversy.
Speaker 3: So it's like that's I would.
Speaker 2: I would believe that he'll he'll just sign the extension
that's put in front of him as soon as it's
put in front of him, and it's like, cool, I
don't want to think about this anymore. That's me projecting
a personality onto someone that, like, we really don't know,
but all indications that seems from what we know right
or from what we've heard and what he's talked about,
that seems like the likely outcome.
Speaker 1: Well, the deal he's currently hon Do you remember when
they asked him about it a few years ago, where
is are you going to sign? And he was like,
oh yeah, like why not, I'll just sign it. It's
like no one asked him about it. I don't think
those times. I feel like if they did, my guess
would be he'd have the same response. I'm just saying
if I were him, I'm not trying to leave Denver,
but I'm making especially after the that the coaching upheaval
and the front office changeover and the dynamics behind the scenes.
I'm like, no, like I'm applying silent pressure to the
or you're always under pressure because you have Jokic. But
I'm not going to give them the you know, the
stability that comes to just knowing the best player alive
is going to sign whatever contract whenever you give it
to him.
Speaker 3: Can we talk about you?
Speaker 2: We started this with a quote from him, I don't
think we've talked about the well when he was asked
after the no It's were eliminated, do you think this
group can win a championship? And he's like, well, we didn't,
so we can't. Basically was his response. It's like can
everybody just speak as bluntly as he and like that's
a real win. I know maybe there's some some like
language not a language barrier, but like the the It's
you could interpret that as him saying like, could we
win a championship? Like no, we just got eliminated. Obviously
that's not possible. They don't let us back into the
tournament just because we want.
Speaker 3: You know, I don't think that was it.
Speaker 2: I just like the just complete like I don't think.
Speaker 3: Then he said something like I don't like to think about.
Speaker 2: Ifs We're just like, God, I love this guy. He's like, yeah,
we didn't win it, so we can't. Like, are you
saying like we should have tried harder and that might
have done it? Like that's that's what I just I
wanted to flag that because I've been meaning to bring
that up with you the last couple of times we're recorded.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's kind of the impact of one
year of playing with Russell Westbrook is just kind of
turned a bit just sure.
Speaker 3: It's like either it happened or it didn't, and that's it. Anyway.
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's talk about let's talk about what.
Speaker 2: The Nuggets have to kind of wrangle with this this offseason,
because it's like, like we led with, it's gonna be
hard to add talent, Like it's gonna be hard to
not lose talent, honestly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they have. They're about four point seven million
into the first Apron grant, and I project, per his
proprietary metrics, that's eleven point six million into the tax
overall to thirteen players. It does assume that Russell Westbrook
and Dario Sharz pick up their player options. Russ I
could see him if maybe they say they would bring
him back on a one plus one and then that
you know, lowers his hit to the actual team. But
like Sharks picking up that player, he would be that like,
why who's yeah, he's picking up He's.
Speaker 2: Not coming close to that money anyplace else, No, no chance.
Speaker 1: Aside from the Jokic extension, they do have Christian Brown
and Peyton Watson up for rookie scale extensions. I'd probably
want to spend a little bit of time on that
in terms of how let's spend a little bit of
time on it, grant how important is it for players,
like having the players of that caliber lockdown versus should
we just play the restricted free agency game with them,
especially given the way that the restricted free agency game
has played out in recent years, And I think we
would both. It's not a matter of well who do
you prioritize it the answers Christian Brown there, he's just
showed more. But how do you like both of them
at to say, it's just it's weird and they're both important,
but a lot of the importance, at least when it
comes to Watson, is very much theoretical or overstated, and
so like just how do you view that, Like do
you expect an extension to get on or if you're
the Nuggets, how you know how aggressive are you're going
to be in trying to lock down let's say Christian
Brown specifically.
Speaker 2: I think again, I think this will be a case
where the CBA and all the aprons and stuff are
going to change behavior, or they should change behavior, because
if I'm Denver, I'm not extending either of them. I'm
gonna just hope that restricted free agency is a powerful
enough tool that I will get a better deal. And
this is especially in the context of I think Bobby
Marks ESPN's Bobby Marks. I don't know what what the
what the question was it was asked of h but
he was discussing an extension for Christian Brown and throughout
the figure of a thirty million dollars starting salary, which
is like, yeah, I get, I mean, he's a starter
on a good team and he keeps getting better. But
like I just I'm not in a hurt and that
the CAP's going up, so thirty million isn't what thirty million.
Speaker 1: Used to be.
Speaker 2: I still am not jumping at the first chance to
pay my fourth and like seventh best players early. Given
the constraints that the Nuggets have, Like I mean, wouldn't
so Brown's cap hold next summer would be like fourteen million.
Speaker 3: I think, So you're gonna you're gonna bump that up,
so you're.
Speaker 2: Gonna have two x that, like I just I don't know,
I I and and maybe it's certainly teams will have
more money to spend next year, so the danger of
offer sheets being too high for you to match arises.
But I'm I'm now of the the posture I'm taking
if I'm running a team, especially like a contender or
something close to it, is like I'm not doing anything
before I have to with like non essential guys, Like
I think, like I'm just gonna wait restrict to free agency.
Is it does provide leverage, It does provide some negotiating power.
I think you just think you got to use that
stuff more now, more than ever, right, Like, it's just
too hard if you commit to money before you have
to for guys that are not the absolute top, top
top part of your roster.
Speaker 1: Right and even I think, so you throw out the
thirty million dollar number, and that's like seventeen under eighteen
percent of the projected salary cap in season one. But like,
if you're gonna make seventeen percent of the salary cap,
you better be close to a bankable player when it's
going to matter. And for Christian Brown, like you kind
of know what he's gonna do defensively at this point,
but the offense is still it's a wild card. Like
he ended up shooting what was it, thirty percent from
three in the playoffs, So you can't be like this
offensive I don't want to say offensive liability, but like,
you don't want to be giving someone who's not draining
threes at a high clip in the playoffs when it
matters most seventy percent of your salary cap like that
that is considered a weak point. No, he's not necessarily
someone that you could pick on or that you're going
to play off the floor, but given an alternative, And
with Peyton Watson, I don't even know what I would
give him if I was Denver if so if he
came in, it was like, yeah, I'll sign for four
and forty y'all pounce because that's a you know, sure,
but you can't. I don't even know that he's shown
enough to bet that you should go twelve percent of
the salary cap. Like or whatever twenty million dollars would be.
So that's really interesting and I just don't And you
also have to project forward as to well, knowing that
both of these guys will cost more money, do you
look at moving one of them is part of a
different deal, and it would be more likely, I would
think Peyton Watson because the fact of the matter is
is you if you could afford both of them, something
is probably gone terribly wrong to ruin their value.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, good point.
Speaker 2: I mean, Watson is fascinating because like I think, you know,
athletically and defensively, there's just a lot There is a
lot there and and so I mean, and Brown has
the durability factor, which which also matters for a Nuggets
team that's just gonna be thin.
Speaker 1: But like.
Speaker 2: Watson in particular couldn't get major consistent rotation minutes and
both of the guys that play ahead of him were hurt,
you know, like.
Speaker 3: It, so you can't you just can't.
Speaker 2: You can bank on some improvement from him, but like,
how much better does he have to get to where
like at least you would play him over and injured
Michael Porter Junior or Aaron Gord, Like there's still more
to go, So like I I think again, I don't
think you can pay Watson based on what like the
high end of what you think he'll be able to
do in a couple of years, which is how guys
very commonly used to get paid. And I think you
have to look at like, what did you do for
us when we desperately needed help in this series that's
you know, a week old uh and and they like
try to kind of pay him that way because it's like,
it's not like the Nuggets have this three to five
year runway like that. They're gonna have to be major
changes way before that.
Speaker 1: Right. Michael Porter Junior is also extension eligible. I do
not expect him to sign one. That would be surprising.
And just as a housekeeping note, if they are gonna
make moves, they can trade up to one like guaranteed
first round pick. They have some swaps to include, but
they can trade twenty thirty one or twenty thirty two.
That gets me to my question of and looking at
what Nicole Yokich said about the depth, I agree with
you in theory that's easier to acquire depth, But if
you're not like pieces that aren't costing a ton of money.
In the Nuggets case, though, you almost wonder if it's
the flip side, because the challenges they run into is
Michael Michael Porter Junior would be the collateral damage just
because the money he makes and you can't murray I
know people's thoughts on him. They might not like the contract.
He's just too integral to this team offensively, and the
dynamic with Yokich is it's generational, like just that two
man game between them. Aaron Gordon DISPENSEA, Well, you're not
doing anything with Yokisch, and so the only other person
who makes real money is Michael Porter Junior or I mean,
you could say Zeke Najy, but like that's a that
contract's underwater and that you run into the problem of one.
Michael Porter Junior's salary is so large that when you
get into matching money, another team has to one view
his contract as a net positive and then two people
willing to send you like two guys back, because if
you're making if you're getting one guy, I don't really
know what you're doing. If it was look, I think
if you could get Kevin Durant for your picks, Michael
Porter Junior and then it's Zeke Najy Dario sars And
I think you need another smaller salary and they are
to make the money work, and you need a third team, sure,
because you're getting rid of that case of four players,
but if only one of them's a rotation player, it's
a wash. But even if you even if I Phoenix said,
we'll accept Peyton Watson and Michael Porter Junior. Is the
base compensation, figure out the money the other teams. You're
getting rid of two rotation players for one and Kevin
Durant's like going to be thirty seven, So that's risky.
But now, wow, if you're saying, well, you could trade
a smaller salary to get someone here log actual minutes.
If you're the Nuggets, do you have the gall or
is it reckless to say, Zeke Nausey Dario Saritz and
we'll put a first round pick on the table just
to deepen our rotations. You're not getting you can get someone.
I guess that makes some type of money in that
because Charitch and excuse me, Zeke nause you're gonna combine
to make like over thirteen fourteen million whatever it is,
Like that's a pretty big cost when you're looking at
from the Nuggets perspective of a distant first round pick,
right to give up to get someone to fill out
what the sixth or seventh spot in your rotation at best?
Speaker 4: Yeah, have you tried.
Speaker 2: I messed around with a with specifically a Durant and
Porter Junior trade, and I'm roping in the Nets or
who you know, whoever else. It's still not easy, Like,
it's still pretty hard to make that work. I think certainly,
like the Nets need to be compensated. And it's like, okay,
so Denver is sending what to them then and the
Suns are sending what like a couple seconds?
Speaker 4: Is that enough to just kind of be the be
the helper?
Speaker 2: I would if if the offer was basically like, forget
the mechanics of it, Watson and Porter Junior and I'm
the Nuggets and I'm getting Durant back.
Speaker 3: I'm doing that in a heartbeat.
Speaker 2: I really like, I just I think you have to
and you just have to be confident that you can
find someone on the minimum that will give you ninety
percent of what Peyton Watson did, which is not a
ridiculous you know, like it's very possible, especially if you
know you're not a huge market team, but you're the Nuggets,
you can you can say, hey, all things being equal,
free agent, you get to come play with Yokich and
we will have a role for you because we were
thin and we just gave up two for one rotation players.
You know, so like that might get you somewhere. But yeah,
you normally you would be like, that's crazy. You can't
You're already thin. You can't give up your best shooter
and like the only projectible young like might get a
lot better talent you have. But I think you just
have to do that, like that's that's where they are,
Like though, that's the level of move that seems like, yeah,
I think that works like for Denver.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's funny because I actually was writing something
up out a potential construction, and I think you could
look at it as Okay, if you're the Nets, just
to they're the team that I'm just gonna involve as
the third party. If you were to send them Peyton Watson,
is that enough to get them to take on Zeke
Nauji and or dariosharch and then if your Phoenix, let's
I think the Nets would consider that yeah, and Phoenix
might not love Peyton Watson just because he's extension eligible.
But if they want Peyton Watson, that changes the mechanics.
But is Phoenix gonna accept let's say a swap in
twenty twenty six and Michael Porter Junior and then one
of Denver's first round picks? Is that like Kevin Durant
in that scenario is probably forcing his way to Denver
if that's the compensation. The other way you could concoct
it is if you were the Nets, would you just
take on Michael Porter Junior?
Speaker 2: That seems less likely to me because I mean, I
I think as if you're if this is a Durant trade,
it feels to me like the Suns are the ones
that really want him.
Speaker 3: Would that want Porter Junior? I guess you know, well, if.
Speaker 1: They just wanted to cut a bunch of money, and
so yeah, you're taking back nause and charge Peyton Watson,
let's say a swap in a first round pick, but
it would be predicated on they want to save a
ton of money and they're kind of leaning into a
like that sounds like a gap year situation, and it's oh,
did they require the rights to their own pick, which
is why it's just stretch. But even the stretch might
be like, do the Nets want to burn? There was
a thirty five whatever a million dollars of their cap space.
I'm just taking Michael Porter Junior because he's not gonna
ruin a rebuilding job, and he really stretches the floor,
and then you could kind of see, well, is there
anything more to him, like in a different type of role,
But that's a lot of It's only two years and
he's not super Bowl, But that's just a lot of
money to say, we're gonna set our cap space on
fire and we're not getting any compensation for it.
Speaker 2: I could see the Nets, uh possibly considering that if
if it seemed realistic that you could then trade Porter
down the line for positive value, which is like maybe
as an expiring in a year or something like I
don't know.
Speaker 1: Like me, do you?
Speaker 3: Number is still pretty big.
Speaker 2: He would have to stay healthy and be really productive,
and then I do think you probably could get something
else for Porter on the way out.
Speaker 3: So that's always kind of nice.
Speaker 2: You get you get something for bringing them in and
you get something for sending them out. And if you're
Brooklyn in the timelines very long. I think you can
probably think in those terms like we're thinking about the
deal after the deal with with this guy, like that's possible.
I just I just imagine that Phoenix still wants to,
you know, try to compete, but I just don't know.
Speaker 1: More of the story is it's almost easier for the
Nuggets to pull off that type of a trade just
because of the salaries they have involved rather than Yeah,
in theory, again nause and or Sharich plus assets get
but are you willing to give up the few assets
that you have to make a move that on the
grand scale that player might or probably won't crack your
closing lineup. That's tough. And so then it leaves you
with what can they do in free agency? And so
if they want to use the miniml E, they're going
to have to stay beneath the second apron. They have
about seven point one million dollars in wiggle room right
now beneath that again, projecting those options get picked up
if you want to fill out an entire roster, that
gets really tight. The other thing I would point out
is I know that it's a different it's going to
be a different front office their last two Mini em
Le signings. You've kind of seen like those can blow
up in your face or just not be anything, which
is why a lot of the teams end up not
using that, especially if they're a tax team. And so
with Denver Itz there's already the Bruce Brown stuff. He
posted about David Adaman getting hired. I don't know if
anyone's watched Bruce I'm not. This isn't even me being patronizing.
I don't if anyone's watched Bruce Brown lately. One, he
hasn't played a ton because he was in here for
a huge part of this year. Just doesn't look like
the same player. Maybe he gets some of the Jokic
magic back coming to Denver. But like I even gave
the thought of, let's say the minimal he's available to him,
are we sure? Like New Orleans just doesn't want like
another trade placeholder to where they'll be like, well, we'll
give you ten million, And Bruce Brown's not in a
position to just be like, yeah, no, I'm gonna give
up that extra five for right million dollars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there's it's it's at least you've got
something above the minimum. Although getting hard cap that the
second apron is. I mean, I don't know how much
of a difference that makes. I would like to avoid
a hard cap if I can, if I'm Denver, But like,
could you get I don't know, like Gary Trent with
that five point seven, Like I don't know, maybe maybe
not Like it's don't you know it's a raise from
what he got last year?
Speaker 1: Yeah, because Malik Beasley went off and had a really
good year in Milwaukee, I'll say last year, and then
he only gets six million dollars from the Pistons. And
so if like maybe, like but I'm sitting here saying,
like Garry Track Junior should get at least half of
the non taxpayer bid level, right, maybe I'm maybe I'm
just wrong.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah those are and is that even the kind
of player you want? I guess you can ask.
Speaker 1: What's your like when you're getting into Yeah, we know depth,
but like, what are kind of the biggest pain points
for this team they need to target?
Speaker 2: I mean, so as if the starting five is intact,
like I think, if you move porter, then like obviously
you just need more shooting like that that makes it easier.
Speaker 1: But as as it is even if you don't move, that's.
Speaker 2: The question, like do you because then you're talking about
we we are just talking about depth pieces because I
don't think there's anyone you trade for that doesn't involve
you giving up a starter where you're like, I'm gonna
play this guy over Brown, for example, like that Brown's
gonna start. The starting five is gonna be what it
is unless you trade Porter Junior. I think, right that
seems like the most likely scenario.
Speaker 3: So yeah, just you gotta have.
Speaker 2: You just have to have like more like a two
three or like a combo forward with some athleticism. Basically
I'm like kind of Watsony but like can shoot it.
Like I just all the players you would talk about,
like you can't get Like I want a Peyton Watson
who can shoot.
Speaker 4: Okay, that guy's like a forty million dollar player.
Speaker 1: You may have just described like Trey Murphy but not
at the same level of defender.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm that's a good question.
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess you'd say, Okay, let's go through
what you normally Okay, DeAndre DeAndre Jordan's their backup center, Like, Okay,
they need more depth there. It's like, well, Aaron Gordon's
gonna play backup five in the games that matter.
Speaker 1: I'm like still a little Deron Holmes pilled just the iies,
but the idea of like a floor spacing pig man
who could protect the rim, I'm like.
Speaker 2: Right, well, and he's another guy that if you're looking
to make moves, like some team might value, like the
Nets might value him, but like the salary matching, it's
he makes a little that it's hard to say, but
like that is a piece they could move unless you
think he really is gonna matter in the rotation next year.
Speaker 1: I thought, because they do, I think you could use
a backup because you don't Holmes is that's gonna be
his day facto rookie season, so you don't know how
he's gonna look. He's coming off a major injury as well,
so they do still need to get some type of
a backup big. But it's I've kind of wondered, like
does Chris Bouchet go for the minimum this year or
is Toronto gonna make him a lifer and basically and
build a statue that's what they should do.
Speaker 3: Probably what does.
Speaker 1: Dayron Sharp go for? Like those are guys that probably
should get more in the minimum, but they could be
useful names to monitor and the other need. I would
agree with all the needs you said. The one that
I think you didn't mention is just in upgrade from
the Russell Westbrook spot to where you do want a
different You want a ball handler and a decision maker
behind Jamal Mariy Nicole Jokic. You need that. I'll frame
it this way. You need that player to be less
destructive than Russell Westbrook can be. I know what he
can do at his peak, but like his nay DearS
are legitimately destructive.
Speaker 2: You you should not win or lose games because of
Russell Westbrook, given like his spot in the rotation, but
like he more than almost anybody that comes off of
a bench for a team like is capable of actually
losing you a game, which is just like the Yeah,
the highs and lows are just too far apart and
it feels dangerous.
Speaker 4: The problem is, like, can you go get a minimum?
Speaker 3: I guess I don't know.
Speaker 2: I guess you'd still call Russell point guard even though
a lot of the time he's just not in that
role because the next Thenuggets have Jokic, But like can
you get somebody for that cheap that can give you
the highs that what that Westbrook gives you.
Speaker 3: I don't think so.
Speaker 2: But you you'll, you'll just you'll have like the yeah, you'll, you'll,
you'll just sort of like I don't know if you'll
get Tighest Jones or something. It's like, well, that's gonna
be a lot steadier, but like he also might just
not be able to play in a second round series
or something like that. You know, like you you're just
making concessions no matter what.
Speaker 1: Can I give you two names that I thought of.
I was trying to think it through the lens of
could these guys potentially play in the playoffs for them
and they all into the miniml territory. I have two
names here, Chris Paul. That'd be kind of fun, right,
or to dominate the ball too much for you? His
shooting nose absurd.
Speaker 3: That's the thing.
Speaker 2: The shooting would really matter. And I think, like I
think I do like that. I like that a lot better.
Speaker 4: Than Russ just for comparison's sake.
Speaker 3: No, sure, I just talked about his highs. I thought
i'd set it up pretty well.
Speaker 1: The other name I had and this is you get into.
I mean, Chris Paul's all you get an injury risk
here too, and I feel like he'll get more than
the minimlle. But Malcolm Brogden, Yeah, yeah, he's gonna be
pretty sod after, don't you think? Yeah? I thought that too.
I was also wondering it would require them playing I
think like we're gonna play ultra huge and Aaron Gordon's
gonna be are de facto three at points. What if
he's just looking like because we know this team is
gonna be cutting costs, can you sell Al Horford on
the MINIMLI to just come ring Chase in Denver and
like alongside slash behind Nicole yo Kich Or is that
not a look that you want to because I don't
know that he checks He checks one of their needs,
which is also probably their like smallest tall, like you
have yokicch at center, so focusing on a backup center.
But if you think they could play together and you
we know they like to run size, I mean him
and Yokich and Porter at the three shore, but could
you get away with Gordon at three? Is that just overkills?
That a waste of the miniml E at that point.
Speaker 2: No, I think that's I think if the Nuggets got
Horford for the Mini mL E, we would give their
offseason and a plus and just move on.
Speaker 1: I would.
Speaker 2: I think that's yeah, you're right that it's like, well,
do you really like can he fit? Do you really
It's like, no, he solves a lot of problems, and like, okay,
so Gordon and Horford are your three four. Like those
guys can both shoot, that's fine, and they can guard
their position. That's fine, that'll work.
Speaker 1: And I have a trade pitch that I don't know
if I support it, but I just wanted to see
what you would think of it. But I didn't want
to ask you first. I saw a lot of people
like talking about what the Nuggets needed, and it was
framed through they just need like all this defensive help.
And I don't know if I'm reading too much into
the Oklahoma City Thunder series, but I came away just thinking, yeah, okay,
they could use more two way players if you But
what I was thinking two way I was they really
just need some more consistent offensive juice. And it was oh,
that was a big moment when Julian Strather went off,
but you can't count him to do that every game,
and you can't count him on defense. And so it's
not that I'm saying it needs to be offensively focused,
but I do find myself wondering if they can get
more dynamic on the offensive end more than I'm wondering
like we kind of saw it they were able to
lock in defensively.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the defense is it can be and
was good enough.
Speaker 3: You know, like what the.
Speaker 2: Difference in that series if if you want to really
just cherry pick stuff like, is the Nuggets needed a
guy like Strawther or they needed st Author to do
what he did twice instead of just once in that
series and maybe the Nuggets just win it. So like
that's kind of a low bar. The other thing too,
we haven't really given a lot of, uh, I don't know,
consideration to the idea of organic improvement, So like could
the Strawthers and Pickets and Tyson's and Holmes I guess,
uh yeah, Holmes, I keep I We've talked about Dayron
Sharp and Dayron Holmes and so now I'm just going
to confuse him for the rest of the time.
Speaker 3: But we're talking about Holmes. Could there be.
Speaker 2: If you're whoever ends up running the Nuggets. Could you
imagine that person coming in and saying, like, I actually
think the four or five young guys we have might
just be good enough to get a little better and
then we don't have the same issues anymore. Or are
we just kind of foreclosing on that now?
Speaker 1: Are you hiring Jaellen Pickets? Uncle?
Speaker 2: It's really more strawther I think, and then the homes
the unknown of Holmes. But like that is a I
mean teams think that way sometimes when the options all
suck for like importing talent, you just say like, oh,
we kind of like our we like our developmental guys,
Like one or two of them's gonna pop?
Speaker 3: Is there anybody is straw the gonna pop?
Speaker 2: Do you think that's a possibility or is it? Denver
is never gonna give him the chance, and that's been
the problem.
Speaker 3: I don't lean that way, but uh, you know that
happens sometimes.
Speaker 1: He seems to us so having someone who I do
try to like read and listen to a lot of
nugget centric stuff, it seems like he's someone who's more
intriguing to us from the ten thousand foot view than
people who are like more intimately covering them. But there's
just something about the way that he can get off
shots where it's team needs that.
Speaker 2: The type of players were suggesting, maybe they go out
and look for if you're just talking scouting reports kind
of sound a lot like what Strawther is supposed to be,
you know, like it's always dangerous. You're right, I think
we are just like, well, he's this old and he
can do these things, because that was his pre draft
scouting report. He's barely played, but if you watch him
every day and you're not in, I'm just gonna believe you,
you know, you know what I mean, Like I'm gonna
believe the night to night Nuggets fans that are like,
he ain't it, I'll believe them.
Speaker 4: Over my opinion, would you who says no.
Speaker 1: To this trade? Peyton Watson the Nuggets first round picked
if they could trade, and then you're using the Sharch
and Nase Nausey money, so you're not gonna get hard
capped as part of this deal. If that's any you know,
if that does it for.
Speaker 2: You for Kobe White, I think Denver should do that.
So I guess I guess I'm saying the bulls say no,
but would you, I don't know if they would.
Speaker 1: So you're getting it'd be Watson in the pick is
the primary compensation. I don't know if that's enough for
Kobe White. He's going to be an expiring contract. If
it's not, does like including a swap move the needle
of that offer at all? Is then that overkill? From
Denver's perspective.
Speaker 2: That's like everything they can You know, that's almost everything
right if you use the first that the twenty thirty
one or thirty two is going out and the twenty six,
So why is that the one that it was, say
twenty six and that's going out and.
Speaker 1: The twenty six swap? Denver even sort of like the
bulls trying to win the press conference, like, oh, look
at what we got that we're never gonna use.
Speaker 3: That is that's a good point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe I don't I mean White, because White would
be we've we've you could talk me into Kobe White
virtually anywhere you know like that that that that feels
like the through line so far of any Kobe White discussions.
But I would do that from Denver.
Speaker 1: You even just knowing we're gonna run into a Megget.
He has to be paid. Brown has to be paid.
You're you're kind of we know that things are gonna
change between now and the twenty six offseason, but now
we're looking at it going so things are gonna change,
and we just burned all of our best.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's where they're at though, Like they're
they're a step short of like Milwaukee, you know, like
a year behind Milwaukee, because Milwaukee won it, what was
it one year before the Nuggets did, And now that
the Bucks I can't do anything and the Nuggets can
do like a thing, and then next time they won't
be able to do anything. I think that's just if
you're gonna try to keep this a contender, you're just like,
those are those are your choices? Like they're all bad,
They're they're all asset depleting.
Speaker 1: But I would say what's more appealing is I did
come out of that Thunder series thinking, Okay, the Nuggets
were closer to being a title team this year than
I thought. Yeah, because there just came a point, like
right around the time that they fire Michael Malone, where
it seemed as if, no, like they're so far away
and maybe they should consider like do you look at
moving from wmal Murray to Orlando and just seeing what
you could get to that. I don't think they need
to head down that path. And so for me, from
my perspective, I'm saying, you don't want to do anything
stupid just for the sake of doing it. But they
are good enough to say, you know what, like, yeah,
we're gonna roll this dice and go with the Kobe
White type trade. That would be look, we solved it
Kobe White and then sign Al Horford with the minimlle
how many variations of trade for Derek White sign Al
Horford are we gonna throw out this off season? And
that's the perfect offseason.
Speaker 4: Every contender will be included in that conversation.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I want to be in front of this
with Nuggets fans because we've gotten it from other fan
bases after Derek White trade talks. You cannot get Derek
White for expiring salary in one first round pick. That
is not something that is gonna I'm not even trying
to be condescending or like dunk on anyone. That is
just a lot of scenarios I've seen thrown out there.
It's just not gonna happen. So the Nuggets cannot trade
for Derek White.
Speaker 4: It's not happening, doesn't seem does not seem likely.
Speaker 2: I would just say last thing is like you have
Jokic in his prime, and you have a couple other
very expensive players. If you're if you're not like really
thinking about mortgaging everything you have for one or two
more shots, like you're kind of going about it wrong
because you're guess you will Denver, You're never everyone who's
listening to this in your lifetime, the Nuggets will never
have a.
Speaker 3: Player better than Jokic like that.
Speaker 1: This is it.
Speaker 2: This is the pinnacle of the Nuggets experience for the
next however many decades.
Speaker 3: So like you gotta this is and it's.
Speaker 2: Even different than like, oh, the Warriors owe it to
Steph who's thirty six. It's like, no, there's an argument
to be made that you you kind of need to
think about the next little while, Like Yokic is younger
than that and better than Steph right now.
Speaker 4: So it's I just you have to go for it.
That's all there is to it.
Speaker 1: And to be fair, our argument to the Warriors was
you go for it with Steph, So if we're going
to say that about the thirty six, thirty seven year old,
right Curry, you do it with a thirty year old
Jokich very quickly. Is there any scenario, just because I
think some people will suggest this, I would assume mostly
not Nuggets fans, there's no way that you trade Jamal
Murray and get better, right. I was even trying to
think of, like, I think Orlando might give you Jallen
Suggs and a pick and like Tristan da Silva or something,
but like, are you better defensively? I guess sure, but
I just can't find that. If you were trying to
target cost cutting and draft equity, yes you could do.
I think you could do a lot of things with
Jamal Murray, but I think it will be suggested nationally
at some point of not being suggested already, and I
just don't view that as I don't even necessarily view
trade Michael Porter Junior as the move. I think the
move the outlaid with Kobe White, where it's can you
make some type of a trade with those smaller contracts,
include an asset and then use your mini mL E
you hope to expand your rotation by two players which
would have made a world of difference in this postseason.
Speaker 2: Maybe, Yeah, I don't think. I don't think you can
get better trading Murray. I don't think while acknowledging he
did kind of show again that he can hit a
playoff level that's just way above his career and regular
season level, Like that's just the thing we should expect now.
Speaker 3: But like, I don't.
Speaker 2: That's not to say that his contract is viewed as
any as like, well, that's just that's right for what
he for what he is as a player. So like you,
it's maybe it's as simple as saying, like he's just
worth more to Denver than he could possibly be to
any other team, and so that's why you can't get
positive value for him.
Speaker 1: Do you have anything else on me? He's Nuggets or
are you ready to take us out of here?
Speaker 2: I will just say I'm ecstatic for when they get
Kobe White and Al Horford.
Speaker 3: That would be a lot of fun. Sorry to all
the other.
Speaker 1: Teams that we're gonna send the same exact two players.
Speaker 3: Yeah right.
Speaker 4: Thanks everybody for listening, for watching, Make sure you're rate
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Speaker 4: Gave this comment, Tell your friends, tell your enemies, shops Frank.
Speaker 1: Making apologies JAREDI
Speaker 2: Mm hmm