WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.960 --> 00:00:03.799 Now we're joined right now with doctor Noel Sharky. We 2 00:00:03.799 --> 00:00:05.440 were concerned that we might not be able to get him. 3 00:00:05.480 --> 00:00:08.880 He is traveling the globe trying to wake people up 4 00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:13.640 to the dangers and the abuses of robotics technology. He's 5 00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:17.480 actually a professor of artificial intelligence and robotics, and he 6 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:20.199 has now after he had kind of an epiphany. 7 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:21.559 We're going to let him tell you about it. I 8 00:00:21.640 --> 00:00:22.640 won't try to describe it. 9 00:00:22.879 --> 00:00:26.480 His core research interest is now in the ethical applications 10 00:00:26.519 --> 00:00:28.519 of robotics and artificial intelligence. 11 00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:30.280 Doctor Sharky, can you hear me? 12 00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:32.600 I can hear you? Very cleared you David? 13 00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:33.600 Great? Great? 14 00:00:33.640 --> 00:00:37.960 So you found a wi fi in that monastery. 15 00:00:37.320 --> 00:00:39.799 Yes, that's great, that's great. 16 00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:42.840 Tell us a little bit about your epiphany when you 17 00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:45.520 went from you were working in robotics. You are very 18 00:00:45.560 --> 00:00:48.439 much interested in the technology of it, but like so 19 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:51.799 many of us who work in engineering or technology, you 20 00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:54.479 didn't realize exactly some of the dark ways that was 21 00:00:54.520 --> 00:00:55.119 being used. 22 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:59.719 No, I didn't. I had my head in the bio thing, 23 00:00:59.799 --> 00:01:04.239 just almost my research. And I was at a press 24 00:01:04.280 --> 00:01:10.319 conference in London about a government report on talking about robots, 25 00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:13.519 worrying about housing benefits for robots of the future. It 26 00:01:13.560 --> 00:01:15.359 was kind of a nutty report and it was the 27 00:01:15.400 --> 00:01:18.519 first report our government had put out about robotics. And 28 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:22.079 at the press conference some journalists said to me, well, 29 00:01:22.159 --> 00:01:23.280 can you tell. 30 00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:25.519 Us a little bit about military robots, And. 31 00:01:25.480 --> 00:01:28.239 Of course I knew nothing about it, apart from a 32 00:01:28.239 --> 00:01:31.319 little bit about bomb disposal because I'm from Northern Ireland 33 00:01:31.359 --> 00:01:32.120 and we know. 34 00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:33.439 About bomb disposal. 35 00:01:34.599 --> 00:01:36.840 So I thought I'd go off for the evening and 36 00:01:36.920 --> 00:01:38.640 just have a quick look at the internet, you know, 37 00:01:38.680 --> 00:01:42.640 an hour or so sort I answer questions. Seven months later, 38 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:46.239 I finished that little look at the internet, having read, 39 00:01:46.359 --> 00:01:49.319 you know, through all the US plans from two thousand 40 00:01:49.359 --> 00:01:51.879 and one right up to the present at the time, 41 00:01:51.879 --> 00:01:55.280 which was five years six years of plans for all 42 00:01:55.319 --> 00:01:57.920 the US forces, the road maps, and they were all 43 00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:03.359 talking about the application of atonnels robots for killing people. 44 00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:06.040 And I just thought this is ridiculous. The way they 45 00:02:06.040 --> 00:02:08.759 were talking about it. It was like science fiction. They 46 00:02:08.800 --> 00:02:12.159 didn't seem to have an idea about the limitations. And 47 00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:15.120 so I wrote an article for the Guardian newspaper in 48 00:02:15.159 --> 00:02:18.639 the UK then two thousand and seven, and it started 49 00:02:18.680 --> 00:02:22.159 there and it's been a whirlwind since. 50 00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:24.879 I find it very alarming because I look at every 51 00:02:24.879 --> 00:02:29.680 week we see some kind of new robotic technology. They're 52 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:32.560 spinning it in the media as saying that these are 53 00:02:32.599 --> 00:02:36.039 the Pentagon's rescue robots. I don't think that darp is 54 00:02:36.039 --> 00:02:39.599 really funding rescue operations. I don't think the Pentagon's really 55 00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:42.560 funding that. If anybody thinks that after looking at the 56 00:02:42.599 --> 00:02:45.599 way they're using drones to assassinate people all over the world, 57 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:48.039 they need to have their head examined. That's some of 58 00:02:48.080 --> 00:02:51.800 the most obvious propaganda I've ever seen. The media should 59 00:02:51.800 --> 00:02:54.400 be ashamed of itself for putting out these killer robots, 60 00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:57.439 these potential, these robotic projects that are being put out 61 00:02:57.479 --> 00:03:02.719 by the Defense Advanced Research Projects DARPA. DARPA has a 62 00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:07.599 research budget that is higher than they've. 63 00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:09.000 Got for the entire budget of North Korea. 64 00:03:09.039 --> 00:03:11.199 We're supposed to be concerned about North Korea, yet North 65 00:03:11.240 --> 00:03:14.800 Korea's entire economy is about the same size as the 66 00:03:14.919 --> 00:03:18.840 DARPER research budget, and DARPER is constantly this seems to 67 00:03:18.840 --> 00:03:19.960 be their primary focus. 68 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:23.439 Well, darker aren't accountable, so their thing, and that's a 69 00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:27.879 good research agenda. Their agenda is you just keep funding 70 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:28.840 everything that's. 71 00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:29.919 Emn slightly crazy. 72 00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:33.000 And as long as one of them comes up and 73 00:03:33.039 --> 00:03:35.719 that is, you know, comes up trumps, then you're okay. 74 00:03:35.919 --> 00:03:39.159 But I was laughing there because one of the reports 75 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:39.960 I read from. 76 00:03:39.840 --> 00:03:42.240 DARPA about these humanoid robots that are going. 77 00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:46.360 To they're going to carry wrenches, and they talk about 78 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:48.960 them going ahead of the forces. Well, why would you 79 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:51.039 have a pile of humanoid robots going ahead of the 80 00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:55.159 forces with wrenches unto people's water pipes? 81 00:03:57.560 --> 00:03:58.560 Fakes the broken tanks. 82 00:03:58.639 --> 00:04:01.319 Yeah, here's the headline, but three hundred and thirty pound 83 00:04:01.400 --> 00:04:04.120 robot may one day save your life. That's talking about 84 00:04:04.120 --> 00:04:07.199 the Atlas robot. And this troubling thing is is that 85 00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:09.759 when the Atlas robot came out, I looked at it. 86 00:04:09.800 --> 00:04:11.439 I thought it was very frightening, the way that this 87 00:04:11.479 --> 00:04:13.560 thing is able to move around, and the fact that 88 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:17.160 it has these two long arms that essentially look like cylinders, 89 00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:19.680 where I could imagine them being guns of some sort. 90 00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:22.480 And Ray Kurzweild comes out and says, that's great. Now 91 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:24.879 all he needs is a brain so he can act autonomously. 92 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:29.759 Oh god, yeah, that's I think you're right that I 93 00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:32.800 can and see the cylinders are going to become machine guns. 94 00:04:32.920 --> 00:04:35.560 I would say, you know, it's no doubt about that 95 00:04:35.639 --> 00:04:38.040 at all. Maybe not for a while, but that's the 96 00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:40.800 that would be the general plan. I would think, yes, 97 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:43.920 would Why would dark would be spending money and rescuing 98 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:46.920 people when when the the business rescue? 99 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:50.680 Ever? Yeah, and then we have these articles that are 100 00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:52.120 coming out and this is about a year ago. This 101 00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:54.879 is from Wired's Dangeroum. It says the Pentagon doesn't trust 102 00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:57.720 its own robots. They say that there's a cloud of 103 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:01.079 distrust and misunderstanding hovering over robot. So the Pengon already 104 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:04.360 has so they're looking at this and they're evaluating this, 105 00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:06.199 and they don't really like it. So we've got to 106 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:09.560 conduct a media campaign to change the public's mind, to 107 00:05:09.639 --> 00:05:12.959 change the military's mind. You're pushing back in the opposite direction. 108 00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:16.079 And we understand that the military industrial complex wants this 109 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:18.920 very badly. They see this as a brand new profit center. 110 00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:23.279 I'm very, very concerned about the lack of accountability that 111 00:05:23.399 --> 00:05:25.240 is going to happen with these killer robots. 112 00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:26.000 Can you address that? 113 00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:29.720 Yes, I mean you're right about the profit I mean 114 00:05:29.839 --> 00:05:31.160 just in terms of the drone. 115 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:33.000 So what we know about already. 116 00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:35.639 I mean, Israel mid four point eight billion in the 117 00:05:35.720 --> 00:05:40.000 last five years profit on those, and this competition is 118 00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:42.519 so stiff. So the idea is that you've got all 119 00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:45.959 the drones, how do you compete in that big market. 120 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:48.879 And the way you compete is let's add autonomy to it. 121 00:05:48.959 --> 00:05:51.879 Let's make them work on their own, and then we 122 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:54.399 can make a lot more money. And what we're trying 123 00:05:54.399 --> 00:05:56.560 to do is we're trying to preemptively ban them. That 124 00:05:56.639 --> 00:05:59.519 means ban them before they get out and before this 125 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:02.800 too much investment, because once billions of dollars have been 126 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:03.800 spent on it. 127 00:06:03.560 --> 00:06:08.079 It's going to be very difficult. Yes, we're making very 128 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:10.279 good head the un Actually. 129 00:06:10.360 --> 00:06:12.639 Well that's good. I'm glad that you're going around and 130 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:15.600 you're addressing the press, you're dressing government, you're pointing out 131 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:17.480 to them where this could head. 132 00:06:17.639 --> 00:06:18.199 I see this. 133 00:06:18.279 --> 00:06:20.079 You know, you know, when we're talking about nuclear war, 134 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:23.120 if some government presses the button and launches a bunch 135 00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:26.759 of nuclear weapons on someone, there's going to be literally 136 00:06:26.839 --> 00:06:29.079 hell to pay for that. There's going to be accountability 137 00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:31.360 for that. But if they take a bunch of killer robots, 138 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:33.360 as we've already seen with drones. We've seen how they 139 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:35.360 can go in with drones. They can destroy a village 140 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:38.160 and there's no accountability. Nobody is held responsible for that. 141 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:41.959 And it'll even be easier for them once these robots 142 00:06:42.040 --> 00:06:46.240 have self autonomy. They can basically say that they've got 143 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:49.360 plausible deniability. They can say, well, the software went wrong 144 00:06:49.399 --> 00:06:51.600 on it, or it was a hardware bugget. It wasn't me, 145 00:06:51.759 --> 00:06:54.079 it wasn't the president, it wasn't the general, it wasn't 146 00:06:54.079 --> 00:06:57.199 the lieutenant. It was just these this crazy technology, So 147 00:06:57.240 --> 00:07:00.639 we'll fix it. Meanwhile, they've killed a lot of and 148 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:03.480 I can see them using this domestically as well as abroad. 149 00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:06.279 So if you think that this is something historically governments 150 00:07:06.279 --> 00:07:08.120 have killed more of their own people than they've killed 151 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:10.759 in other countries, it's called demicides. So if you think 152 00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:12.959 this is something that is simply going to be used 153 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:15.120 against these people on the other side of the world 154 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:17.279 that you don't like, you need to wake up about 155 00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:18.959 that as well. 156 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:19.720 I think to really do. 157 00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:22.720 And the thing is that what will the United States 158 00:07:22.759 --> 00:07:25.360 and the high technicians like the UK. They have a 159 00:07:25.399 --> 00:07:29.319 problem understanding that this stuff will proliferate and everyone will. 160 00:07:29.120 --> 00:07:31.759 Have it and then what are we doing yes to 161 00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:32.759 be And that's my. 162 00:07:32.759 --> 00:07:36.040 Biggest worry is this idea that we'll keep ahead of 163 00:07:36.079 --> 00:07:38.519 the technology will be the ones who'll use it without 164 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:40.680 thinking at all that everybody else is going to have it, 165 00:07:40.759 --> 00:07:43.480 and they will all interact together, and then it's going 166 00:07:43.519 --> 00:07:44.480 to be a real mess. 167 00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:48.480 We've already seen countries like Iran setting up their own drones. 168 00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:51.160 They're not that technologically advanced. It didn't take them that 169 00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:53.199 long to get drones. It's not going to take them 170 00:07:53.240 --> 00:07:55.839 long to get robots. This is something and what we're 171 00:07:55.839 --> 00:07:57.959 concerned about here. I have to say, doctor Sharky, we 172 00:07:58.040 --> 00:08:00.639 have a little bit different. Situation in the US is 173 00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:03.639 unique in the sense that now we have this massive 174 00:08:04.120 --> 00:08:07.120 program of bringing home weapons that have been used in 175 00:08:07.160 --> 00:08:11.439 Iraq and putting them in police departments here in America. 176 00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:15.279 And we're already concerned about the fact that humans themselves 177 00:08:15.680 --> 00:08:18.240 are not being held accountable for their actions when they 178 00:08:18.519 --> 00:08:21.959 fire on a child with a toy gun. What's going 179 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:23.560 to happen when a robot does that? Do you think 180 00:08:23.600 --> 00:08:25.240 there's going to be the accountability for that? 181 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:28.720 Do you really think the United States police will start 182 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:33.200 I mean, they certainly talk about arming robots with tasers. 183 00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:36.679 Mm hmmm, that would start for it. But tasers are 184 00:08:36.759 --> 00:08:37.480 kind of deadly. 185 00:08:37.879 --> 00:08:40.200 I mean, one hundred and fifty people died in the 186 00:08:40.279 --> 00:08:43.200 US within a period of two years taser. So if 187 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:46.799 you start arming robots with tasers, then I think it's 188 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:47.960 only a short step. 189 00:08:47.720 --> 00:08:49.399 To arming them with weapons really. 190 00:08:49.679 --> 00:08:54.360 Yes lethal, and they're very horrible non quote unquote non 191 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:56.200 lethal weapons, very horrible ones. 192 00:08:56.200 --> 00:08:57.200 It's not just tasers. 193 00:08:57.240 --> 00:08:59.399 They have all kinds of things that they can beam 194 00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:01.320 at you to make you sake, to blind you, that 195 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:03.240 sort of thing we just had you talked about how 196 00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:06.039 they kill people. We've got a teenager right here just 197 00:09:06.080 --> 00:09:08.360 south of Austin that was tasered by a cop and 198 00:09:08.399 --> 00:09:11.039 a school who was standing there standing around a fight 199 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:12.799 and didn't get out of the way in time. The 200 00:09:12.840 --> 00:09:15.559 cop tasered him, fell down and cracked his head. He's 201 00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:17.480 now in a coma. They believe he may die. That 202 00:09:17.559 --> 00:09:19.840 happens all the time with tasers. So when you talk 203 00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:22.559 about non lethal force, you talk about shooting people with 204 00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:25.919 rubber bullets, you talk about using these gases on people. 205 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:29.799 That's not something that we're looking forward to seeing happen 206 00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:30.919 in terms of crowd control. 207 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:33.080 That can be very very oppressive. 208 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:37.600 Yes, but you don't have to worry too much because 209 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:38.679 it went to stop it. 210 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:41.519 Good. Good. So tell us about your campaign. 211 00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:45.159 Tell us you're going around and you're talking to different governments. 212 00:09:45.159 --> 00:09:48.559 I guess you're having public speeches where you're trying to 213 00:09:48.600 --> 00:09:49.360 inform the public. 214 00:09:49.399 --> 00:09:50.960 How is your press coverage. 215 00:09:51.519 --> 00:09:53.240 Well, press coverage has been very good. 216 00:09:53.519 --> 00:09:57.639 But we had a breakthrough recently at the United Nations. 217 00:09:57.440 --> 00:09:58.879 There's a committee of. 218 00:09:58.840 --> 00:10:03.399 The United Nations called the CCW, and that's the place 219 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:07.440 where poisonous gas has got banned, biological weapons, it's got 220 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:11.240 banned chemical weapons, so that's the place for prohibiting new weapons. 221 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:13.320 And we spoke. 222 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:16.480 To the French have just taken up the presidency, and 223 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:19.240 we spoke to the French ambassador. Then we spoke to 224 00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:23.360 the US delegation and they've agreed with this that they 225 00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:26.240 would put this forward as a mandate for discussion in 226 00:10:26.279 --> 00:10:31.799 the UN. And last Friday, Friday, two weeks ago, they 227 00:10:31.799 --> 00:10:34.960 had a one hundred and seventeen nations from the CCW 228 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:38.440 met and one of those nations could be to it. 229 00:10:38.759 --> 00:10:40.600 Russia over there, China were there. 230 00:10:40.720 --> 00:10:44.240 There was a massive, massive, discussion and they accepted the mandate. 231 00:10:44.519 --> 00:10:47.759 So next year the CCW committee are setting up an 232 00:10:47.840 --> 00:10:50.600 expert workshop to take this on board and discuss it. 233 00:10:51.159 --> 00:10:52.200 Well, that's that's great. 234 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:56.600 And your campaign is stop Killer Robots dot org. They 235 00:10:56.600 --> 00:10:59.440 can learn about that on the internet wwws Stop Killer 236 00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:03.120 Robots do. It's a campaign to stop killer robots. Now 237 00:11:03.159 --> 00:11:04.879 you've taken this to the UN, You've taken it to 238 00:11:04.919 --> 00:11:07.559 other countries. I'm a little bit more skeptical of the 239 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:10.279 UN and these other countries. Hopefully they will ban this, 240 00:11:10.360 --> 00:11:14.159 and hopefully these other countries won't secretly develop this on 241 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:16.000 their own worry that they're going to have some kind 242 00:11:16.039 --> 00:11:18.960 of a robot gap or something like that, like they've 243 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:22.080 had weapons defensively do it because the're afraid the other 244 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:24.840 guy might do it. My big concern and I think 245 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:27.399 your campaign will be very effective at this as well, 246 00:11:27.639 --> 00:11:31.279 and that is to address the engineers and the scientists, 247 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:34.679 to try to get them to understand because that, I 248 00:11:34.759 --> 00:11:35.240 believe is. 249 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:36.360 Where we really need to go. 250 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:39.519 As long as there's an engineer or a scientist who 251 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:42.960 will develop this kind of stuff for pay, who doesn't 252 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:45.399 look at the ethics of their work, you're going to 253 00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:48.600 find some kind of a politician or a dictator somewhere 254 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:50.960 who will do it, who will use those people, who 255 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:52.919 will pay them large amounts of money, and who will 256 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:54.799 break any treaty that comes up, won't you. 257 00:11:56.159 --> 00:12:00.120 Well, the problem is it's mainly the US because they're 258 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:03.279 more cautious in Europe. In the US, it's very difficult 259 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:06.279 to not get funded by the military. Yes, most of 260 00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:09.840 the robotic slabs are run by the military or funded 261 00:12:09.879 --> 00:12:13.000 by the military, and the people aren't necessarily making weapons 262 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:15.240 and things. But when you're funded by the military, it 263 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:16.480 stops you speaking up. 264 00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:19.159 Yes, yes, it stops you sitting. 265 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:21.159 Up against it. I mean we had there was a 266 00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:23.039 there's hope, I mean there was there was. 267 00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:27.240 There's a professional magazine in the US called The Engineer, 268 00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:31.320 and they ran a poll of the readers asking how 269 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:33.960 many people would go for a complete ban or how 270 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:36.240 many people would just go for trying to make the 271 00:12:36.279 --> 00:12:39.919 weapons more perfect over time. Only three percent of the 272 00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:42.759 readership said they would make the weapons go more perfect 273 00:12:42.799 --> 00:12:46.320 over time, and sixty seventy three percent said there should 274 00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:47.559 be a total ban. 275 00:12:47.960 --> 00:12:51.039 So we're consciousness of it. 276 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:56.240 That's very hopeful because so many times we'll talk to directly, Alex, 277 00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:59.720 We'll talk to soldiers and policemen over the radio and say, 278 00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:03.399 understand that the kind of society that you allowed happen. 279 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:05.639 If you allow and are part of this kind of 280 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:08.759 abuse that we see happening in the streets, that's going 281 00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:10.960 to be the society that you live. That could be 282 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:13.360 your family that is brought under that. And historically we've 283 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:14.759 seen that always does happen. 284 00:13:15.080 --> 00:13:15.799 It doesn't. 285 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:18.240 It can't be contained and only limited to people who 286 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:20.240 don't work for the government. But we need to have 287 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:23.399 that kind of awareness with engineers. And as you pointed out, 288 00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:26.360 it's very difficult in America to get a job if 289 00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:29.960 you're an engineer that doesn't involve the military industrial complex. 290 00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:32.120 I know when I got out it took me a 291 00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:34.159 while to find a job where I wasn't working for 292 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:34.840 the military. 293 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:36.399 That was my degree initially. 294 00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:39.840 So I understand that, and it's good that people will 295 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:42.759 privately say that, And I think I really applaud you 296 00:13:42.799 --> 00:13:45.559 for what you're doing because getting the information out there. 297 00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:49.080 People don't even believe that this could happen. In so 298 00:13:49.159 --> 00:13:51.440 many cases, they don't believe that the technology is there. 299 00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:55.080 They think it's just the science fiction fantasy of the terminator, 300 00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:58.279 and we've been criticized for that here that we're talking 301 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:01.919 about some wild thing, talk about the absolute talk about 302 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:05.159 how the technology is approaching rapidly. 303 00:14:06.120 --> 00:14:08.879 Well, we've had forty four nations at the UN and 304 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:09.799 I speak. 305 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:10.399 Up with concern. 306 00:14:10.919 --> 00:14:14.519 So people better believe in now it's not science fiction 307 00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:18.240 anymore when you have major countries that the US, Germany, 308 00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:22.759 Pakistan even you know, all speaking up against killer robots 309 00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:26.360 or about them. So it's definitely on course to happen. 310 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:28.799 There's no question of that unless we stop it. But 311 00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:31.080 you have to be very worried in the US as 312 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:35.879 well about your privacy. I mean, you've got the NSA. 313 00:14:35.960 --> 00:14:39.080 They're really doing a lot of nasty things surveying people. 314 00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:41.200 But you're starting to get a lot of drones, and 315 00:14:41.240 --> 00:14:44.879 once the drone has become autonomous, not even arms, they 316 00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:49.080 can be everywhere. They're getting very small. And what worries 317 00:14:49.159 --> 00:14:52.480 me is is not the current government you have, but 318 00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:55.840 these are legacy systems. So what does the next government 319 00:14:55.879 --> 00:14:58.559 do with them? What does the next government do with them? 320 00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:01.200 Because they just inherit them direct and if you ever 321 00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:04.840 want to create an authoritarian regime, you're going to have 322 00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:06.759 the right tools to do it, and that is a 323 00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:08.480 great concern to me as well. 324 00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:09.919 Military stuff. 325 00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:11.320 You hit the nail on the head. 326 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:13.679 What we're building in the United States right now is 327 00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:17.159 a perfect infrastructure for tyranny. And whether our current leadership 328 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:20.000 uses it or it's the next door second administration down, 329 00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:21.879 that's what we're concerned. 330 00:15:21.559 --> 00:15:22.559 About, Doctor Sharky. 331 00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:23.960 What I would like for you to talk about in 332 00:15:23.960 --> 00:15:27.480 this segment is the state of the art in robotics. 333 00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:31.679 People don't understand how imminent this problem is, how rapidly 334 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:33.080 it's coming upon us. 335 00:15:33.080 --> 00:15:34.200 Could you address that. 336 00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:35.720 Yes, certainly. 337 00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:38.679 Well, we've got lots of armed robots the on the 338 00:15:38.679 --> 00:15:40.840 grind and in the air as you know, that are 339 00:15:40.840 --> 00:15:43.840 remote controlled. But what's happening now is a very rapid 340 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:45.840 development of platforms that will. 341 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:46.759 Carry the weapons. 342 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:51.080 The more we talk in the campaign about banning these 343 00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:54.200 weapons systems, the more we're driving them underground. 344 00:15:54.200 --> 00:15:56.240 It seems there's less talk about it now. 345 00:15:56.600 --> 00:15:59.600 But for instance, in the United States, you've got three 346 00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:00.559 device as I'd like. 347 00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:01.919 To mention to you. 348 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:05.279 One is called the X forty seven B and that 349 00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:08.200 can land on there. It's a fighter jet, a combat 350 00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:12.600 unmanned combat aircraft fast subsominic just beneath the speed of sound. 351 00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:14.080 It can land on an. 352 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:17.759 Aircraft carrier, it can take off from an air car carrier, 353 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:21.039 and it's going to be used in the Pacific. It's 354 00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:23.519 got ten times the range of one of your F 355 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:27.200 thirty five fighter jets, so that's really productive for them. 356 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:29.720 And it's just been tested two weeks ago in very 357 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:33.240 windy conditions and that's working very well. That will be 358 00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:36.519 weaponized and used, so it's like a super drone, but 359 00:16:36.600 --> 00:16:39.039 you don't need people involved at all and controlling it. 360 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:43.600 You've also got a prototype system called the Crusher and 361 00:16:43.639 --> 00:16:45.960 that's developed by Carnegie Mellon and DARPA. 362 00:16:46.039 --> 00:16:46.320 Again. 363 00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:49.080 Of course, the Crush there's a seven and a half 364 00:16:49.159 --> 00:16:52.159 ton truck and you can see it. If anybody wants 365 00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:56.000 to go on YouTube and just to crusher CMU, they 366 00:16:56.039 --> 00:16:58.639 will find it and they'll see it crushing cadillacs and 367 00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:01.399 it's got a big gun up there top of it. Now, 368 00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:03.639 the other device that you're making in the United States 369 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:09.119 is on the HTV two program again DARPA, and they've 370 00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:12.680 got an aircraft called a Fault and the idea is 371 00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:15.519 to be able to get an unmanned combat aircraft anywhere 372 00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:19.200 on the planet within that one hour window. So this 373 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:22.000 thing has been tested at thirteen thousand miles an hour, 374 00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:24.119 so that's just the United States. 375 00:17:24.359 --> 00:17:25.480 In the UK we have. 376 00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:29.359 The Tyrannus, which is actually supersonic, so that's even faster. 377 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:35.200 That's an intracontinental unmanned combat aircraft. Fully autonomous means that 378 00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:38.440 there's no human controlling it, and that's been tested in 379 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:41.240 Australia just in the last couple of months, so these 380 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:42.720 are progressing very quickly. 381 00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:45.519 The Chinese have the Invisible Swords as the. 382 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:48.839 Engine, and that's being designed and built for air to 383 00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:52.400 air combat, again no human controlling it. 384 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:57.200 The Russians have the SCAT. The Israelis are using. 385 00:17:56.440 --> 00:17:58.960 One called the Guardian, and at the beginning when they've 386 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:01.279 built developed at the top talk a lot about it 387 00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:04.079 being fully autonomous to do roots and to fire on 388 00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:07.240 people at the borders between Palestine and Israel. 389 00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:10.319 But now I spoke to it and it was really. 390 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:13.119 Colleague the other day who was very excited because I 391 00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:15.119 have had an early picture off it with guns on it, 392 00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:17.640 and now that they can't find any pictures off them 393 00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:20.720 with guns, so I'm afraid we're driving these people underground 394 00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:22.519 a bit, but they're still doing it well. 395 00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:25.440 You know, we can understand very quickly the implications of 396 00:18:25.480 --> 00:18:28.680 something like the Crusher that's going to crush vehicles domestically, 397 00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:32.440 but even when it comes to these supersonic jet transports 398 00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:35.640 that are taking off from aircraft carriers, that are unmanned 399 00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:39.359 aerial vehicles that are remotely controlled, that has a lot 400 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:41.400 of danger in the sense that that's going to make 401 00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:46.160