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Speaker 2: All right, we are back again with a brand new
episode of Worse or Better. Filling in once again for
my second favorite irishwoman is one of my favorite people
from Detroit one Adam. Don't call him Gabe kid.
Speaker 3: Thank you for that. Yeah, I don't claim mister Gabe
is one of my kN No.
Speaker 2: Nor should you, but thank you again for filling in
so we could get another episode of this podcast out,
because again, if you had not been able to join me,
it would have been me alone, which I would actually probably
listened back to deleted, and then there just be no episode,
which would be even worse probably.
Speaker 3: And luckily for you. I don't have much of a life.
I'm old, I've been married for pretty much a full lifetime,
and my kids are growing out of the house and
so I just sit around thinking about wrestling and lifting
weights and play softball once in a while. So I
got a lot of time on my hands.
Speaker 2: I also have a lot of time in my hands,
which is why I have this gig to begin with.
So let's see, last week, you and I were chatting
about just basically the last year in wrestling and whether
or not we're doing worse or better. We talked about AW,
we talked about WB, and at one point we briefly
were mentioning the four Pillars of AW and we thought, hey,
that might not be a bad, worser better episode, And
hopefully we were right, because that episode is this episode
right now. Right now, you're listening to that episode. It's
very exciting. Just to update people. By the way, I
still have not mowed my lawn and it has gotten insane.
I'm losing dogs out there. It's up to my knees
and it just keeps raining every day. So I keep
putting it off. And the problem didn't go away by
ignoring it, like Adam had told me it would very
just I apologize.
Speaker 3: See I ignored mine, and we've been so hot in
a drought. Mine's just burnt. So it doesn't need to
be cut lucky bastard and you're burnt ground. No, I
live in a jungle now, which is fine, But we're
not here to talk about jungles mowing the lawn.
Speaker 2: We're here to talk about wrestling, in particular the AEW
four pillars, Adam, in your opinion, how would you describe
what the four pillars even are in wrestling or in
AW specifically. I know it originated in all Japan there
was some sort of four pillars of heaven I think
with what they called it, I assutin that's where this
came from.
Speaker 4: But the AAW version, of course, was kind of coined
by MJF in the middle of a random promo in
twenty twenty one, but it's kind of been accepted as
cannon since then.
Speaker 2: But like, what do you consider to be like a
pillar in a young wrestling.
Speaker 3: Company, which is the situation we're kind of right talking
about to me When at the inception of AW, what
I would consider to be who would be eligible to
be a pillar would have been an unestablished performer that
was young and you felt like had something that was
going to help to take your company to the next
level as they matured. That's that's what I in my
head when I hear pillar and wrestling, So like when
they started, it wouldn't have been a Moxley or a Jericho,
a Kenny, the Bucks or Cody. Those were your most
established named people at the start of your company, and
I meant from the jump who they chose as their pillars,
I can get I could get down with two of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, hey, half ain't bad, but yeah, so
I and I kind of agree with your definition of
what I would consider a pillar, like I would want
it to be like a homegrown talent that could I
mean basically, the definition of an actual pillar is to
help hold things up right, So somebody who's gonna help
booie your company in the future and could be like
a big homegrown star that had wasn't our established. So
you're right, I wouldn't count Moxley, the Bucks, Omega any
of those people because they've made their name outwhere, even
though I mean all of those people I think have
been an AAW longer than they wrestled, like Moxley has
like past his Dean Ambrose time in AAW.
Speaker 3: I think yeah, for main Roster, I think you're right
because his main roster room was what twenty fourteen two
when he left the company in like twenty eighteen, twenty.
Speaker 2: Nineteen, yeah, so it was like four or five years.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's been with AW since the beginning.
Speaker 3: Has done some good work and good worship.
Speaker 2: Some good like his style, some questionable work, some good promos,
some weird promos. He's run the gamut, he really has.
But that's Moxley and he's not eligible to be a pillar.
So who are our pillars? I think most people, especially
AW fans, know exactly who the pillars are.
Speaker 3: But I'm gonna run out saw yep, yep.
Speaker 2: So they are Darby Allen, Sammy Guivara, jungle Jack Perry
a jungle boy at the time when he was a pillar,
and of course Maxwell, Jacob Friedman MJF. Now these are
all another thing. This isn't We didn't specify this as
an important part of it. But they are all very young.
Seven years ago, they were all in their mid to
early twenties. MJF was like twenty two when he joined.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was very young, very young, like John Evans young.
Speaker 2: Right, So I mean I think we can just kind
of go through these kind of talk about what they've accomplished,
how they're doing as a pillar, and I guess the
show is worse or better. So we're going to determine
whether or not the pillars, either individually or as a group,
are doing better or worse now than you know in
twenty nineteen when we first started this crazy thing. We're
just gonna start with Darby Allen so we can get
some of the vitriol out of you.
Speaker 3: Start.
Speaker 2: So say what she went about Darby Allen. He is
currently a former world champion, So yes, he is, based
on that metric, very successful pillar at him.
Speaker 3: I mean he's also TNT champion what two or three times?
Speaker 2: Yes? Yes, and he had a.
Speaker 3: Team champion once, was sing correct?
Speaker 2: Correct?
Speaker 3: So I'll say this from a booking standpoint, he's been
booked very well as a pillar of their company. If
it was my company, he wouldn't work there. But that's me.
I just don't I think he's a negative. I know
I'm going to get flag from that from people, but
I think that he's a throwback to an era of
people doing dumb shit that has long term ramification on
their overall health and longevity in life. And the fact
that he can continue to still do some of the
dumb things he does while he can watch Nick Foley
barely be able to walk down a ramp to interview
somebody in the ring. I mean, but here's the thing.
People love him. He's got appealed to other people.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 3: I'm in the minority, you know. And he'd be fine
as this little mid card, you know, little engine that
could I could get along. Would the minute they start
trying to push him as a world champion, you lost me.
If I know, if I know that I, as a
fifty year old man, can kick your champion's ass. You
don't have a champion, and I can kick Darby Allen's ass.
Speaker 2: I absolutely believe that. I mean to be fair. The
podcast listeners can't see you, but oh you do his clients.
It's pretty obvious what happened there. I think Darby and
I would have a pretty good fight. He would probably
wear me down just by.
Speaker 3: Running around like a crazy That would be the one
thing that he'd have going for him. If it went
more than about forty five seconds, I'm going to be
sucking for wind. So he's got that. I'm gonna be
going for a quick knockout. I'm not built for I'm
not built to go the distance?
Speaker 1: Did you know that you can enjoy commercial free versions
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I hear you saying that you feel like
you're in the minority of this and in a AEW
centric like around AW fans, you probably are AW fans.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Derby.
Speaker 2: There's a lot to like about Derby. He's young, he
loves wrestling, and he loves the company. I mean, that's
a good thing. He's a very loyal guy for that.
And the crazy bumps, like you said, that's going to
come back, and that's not a good look at times
for AEW, but people do appreciate him like doing whatever.
Like we've said this before, like a regular Derby match
will have like five bumps in it. That would be
like the worst bump of most people's career. Yeah, which, again,
whether that's a good or a bad thing, you've used
my different on that. You and I are actually not
that far on Derby though, because I was, I was
also not behind his World Championship run. I ended up
enjoying it. I thought it was well done, but it
was never like super believable.
Speaker 3: Right, And I didn't watch it as you you know this, right,
And I said it in on the post show the
day one, and I go that I will not watch
or comment or be on another post show as long
as he's the champion. And I stayed away until he
lost and then I was back. So I'm nothing if
I'm not a man of my word. And you know
I was against a championship run for him when they
did it. The timing to me was not right. Ten
years from now, you want to give him the Sammy Zaane,
You're getting towards the tail end of your career. If
it doesn't happen now, it's probably never going to happen.
The timing with the Darby one just made no sense
whatsoever from a just where they were going with all
the main storylines going into all In, it just didn't
make any sense. And just it felt forced to shoe
and hot shot and that as another And I thought
that we'll get to MGF in a minute. He is
the biggest star in your company. And I didn't understand
cutting his legs out from underneath him to just give
it back to him a month later, and then just
to have him lose it again to Kenny. Just from
a booking standpoint, you have just have MGF lose the
title to Kenny when he lost it to Darby, if
that's what you wanted to do, and then give yourself
plenty of time to build that story with Kenny and Osprey.
But that's you know, that was my biggest complaint, and
I just I just have a hard time, and I
know it makes me sound like an asshole, but I
just have a really hard time with him. And then
we'll talk about another guy here in a minute. If
you weigh under one hundred and sixty pounds, I can't
believe you as a heavyweight champion. I just can't, so
to me automatically disqualification from that, and it disqualifies you
as you wouldn't be a pillar in my company. That's me.
But if we got to say worse or better how
he's done since the inception, you gotta say it's better.
Speaker 2: Not only like you said, the booking obviously makes them
look better, but I think he has improved like when
he first started, like he couldn't cut a promo or
he's very good, too good promo at this point. Yeah,
which I wouldn't have guessed, especially at his inception. But
I'm still with you if I were booking, obviously, I'm
not if it was my Company, T and T Championship,
International Champion, whatever, all the thirty random belts. Those are
all fine, but I think world titles should be like
a little special. And I agree with you about the timing,
because even though we say he's doing better now than
he was an exception, he's been a successful pillar in
that way. What is he actually doing right now? Boiler,
You and I are recording this instead of watching Redemption
at this very moment, But what was Darby doing on
that pay per view anything? I mean, he's I guess,
feuding with Kevin Knight, but Kevin Knight is in the
world title match and Darby is right just hanging around,
And I mean he lost to Kevin on Wednesday.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sure he'll make an appearance with a flamethrower something.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, we have left out the dumb weapons and
stuff that he's also introduced.
Speaker 3: And one other thing, yeah, and one other thing I
don't like if you want to be a pillar for
a company. To me, he's loyal, but you also have
to be dependable. And I feel like he was never
hotter than he was leading into towards all in last year,
and everybody thought that he was going to be the
one to take out Mox and it was more important
for him to go to do Mount Everest than it
was and totally undid the story they were telling. And
then the kind of then hangman moved in and took
over the story. But the original story was that it
was Darby trying to go after the death writers. And
then he was like, Hey, I'm glad you put me
in this top of the card storyline, but you know,
I need to go do something dangerous in my personal
life just because I you know, I need an adrenaline rush, kid,
So I gotta go. I'll see you in three months.
And yeah, he turned me off to him too.
Speaker 2: That was that's ill advised. It's odd to think about
Darby about being like unreliable. You'd assume it is because
he's constantly get injured, but no, he's been pretty durable
despite the bumps.
Speaker 3: But no, yeah, yeah, but he's missed time for the
concussion that he had in the Kevin Knight match Corrupt.
Then he get concussed really bad in the.
Speaker 2: It was something he had from the content of class
I guess.
Speaker 3: And then when he got hit by the bus when
he was jerking around in New York or whatever it was,
and he got in had to miss a little bit
of time with like a foot injury or something.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, but you would assume that he's constantly out
injured when really the most significant portion and important time
for him to be around he missed because he went
to climbing.
Speaker 3: Up well, you know, so you know they say about
babies though, is that like their bones aren't fully developed
and they're more so compliable. So maybe it's just he
hasn't hit puberty yet and when he becomes a full
real man then he'll, uh, he'll get.
Speaker 2: More, he'll start feeling these Well, we got that to
look forward to. But that's Darby. I think we've determined
that he is, against all odds, he is. He's a
better and he's in at least some way helped the
company some. So he's been a successful piller. To go.
Kind of the other end of that, let's talk about
Sammy Guivara, the Spanish god, who is a Spanish I guess,
so his accomplishments are not world champion. It is several
T and T title reigns. That's true. Good for that
and good for a good match. I mean, he can
go out there and have a banger. That's why they
hang it out in r O H.
Speaker 3: So held a bunch of titles in r O H.
Tag titles, six man titles. You know. Yeah, if there's
one thing we can say about a W they have titles.
Speaker 2: They do. They're like RBS, except for the have the
titles instead of the meats. Right, they're actually lacking in
meat in general, I would say, but they got the titles.
And I mean there was a time when you I
understand why they had him kind of singled out as
a pillar. He was young, he had kind of a cocky,
arrogant kind of charisma about him, and it seemed like
he could like really rise up the ranks and make
a difference. And then I mean, like anybody that's aligned
with Jericho, does that happen.
Speaker 3: Well, And I don't think you can blame Jericho for Sammy.
Speaker 2: Well not for Sammy. You can blame Jericho for a while,
but you're right, Sammy was probably beyond his control.
Speaker 3: It's you know, at the beginning, I knew nothing of
Samy Guavara before I watched the very first match on
the very first nine. I've never heard of them, and
I was like, well, this is interesting. You must think
pretty highly of this guy because the very first match,
the first thing you've seen on their television was him
versus Cody, right, and you know, and then they align
them immediately with Chris Jericho.
Speaker 2: Which is a good sign, especially with.
Speaker 3: Any of the other Pillars. So I'm like, to me,
he's the second most talented pillar.
Speaker 2: I can see that. Yeah, like in the ring.
Speaker 3: Athletically, yeah, he's got the look, but but he's got
a two cent brain.
Speaker 2: He is also maybe he might be tied for first
and dumbit. I mean, when you look at some of
the stuff Darby does, he's not high on the brain.
Speaker 3: Scan Darby's Darby's dumbness only hurts Derby, That's true. Sammy's
dumbness hurts He's done a lot of dumb shit that's
hurt not only hurt the people he's wrestling, but his
could have hurt the company as a whole. Like the whole.
You go out and you're proposed to your girlfriend and
then you break up with her and start diddling one
of your coworkers and you know the he almost killed
Matt Hardy like twice, didn't he Yeah, him really bad
two times.
Speaker 2: That was I blame on those and I blame a
w doctors for that.
Speaker 3: They're not if I was having a medical event, don't
let any other doctors touch me.
Speaker 2: You know, if Zach were here, he would remind you
that Doc Sampson saved Jerry the King Lahler's life.
Speaker 3: Yep. And I also seen a drunk guy save somebody
by giving him CPR once. Sometimes shit just happens. You
get lucky.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've never saved anybody's life or killed anybody though,
so at least I'm a neutral figure. Yeah, but yeah, Sammy,
like he looks like he was gonna do some stuff,
and he, like I said, you always seem like I
had like personality, especially as a heel. And then they
tried to turn him babyface, and you know what, he
could not do cut a promo or express even a
drop of charisma as a babyface. He embarrassed.
Speaker 3: There's some people that you just look at their face
and they're made to be a heel in the business,
and he's that guy. He has that just that cocky, swarmy,
just you know face that you want to slap. So
he's made like when he first came out, before you
started hearing about you know, having problems with them Drade,
and he's having problems with this person and that person
and just some of the dumb like I didn't think
he would have in a world title area right now,
But I thought, okay, he's still young. He gets in
the gym a little bit, grows into his body a
little bit more. Then you could see him building towards that.
I thought that there was a chance that, you know,
because you go ten years into his aw career, he's
still only in his probably early thirties. He is thirty
three now, so he was twenty six right when they launched.
So in a perfect world, if he would have been
on the right trajectory honing his craft, honing his body
and being a good citizen backstage, you could see where,
you know, okay, as some of these other guys start
to age out that helped you establish get your name
on the map, you know, the Jerichos start to age
out and go away, that you could see him getting
into that where you could say, he's in your top
six or seven male single stars and he just Samy
killed Sammy's career, but he can't blame anybody else but himself.
Speaker 5: Hey, everyone, Greg Parks. Here, you've probably heard me hosting
Wrestling Night in America after pay per views and also
co hosting the Tuesday Flagship with Wade Keller. I also
host a VIP exclusive podcast every week called Greg Parks
Out Loud. In this podcast, I delve into a single
topic for around twenty minutes, perfect length for one of
your daily commutes or while walking the dog. A couple
of my recent episodes included a look at TNA as
they moved to AMC and WWE, and aw injuries for
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Speaker 2: Yeah, Sammy screwed Sammy, but he's worse. He's definitely in
a worse situation. He is a in ROH, which is
automatically worse. But also he's in the news right now
for having because he removed aw from his bios. So's
there's rumors that he's looking for a release.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: I think they said his wife is getting her release.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she requested it, and Tony, I guess during the
media call the other day, said yeah, she asked for
The timelines are a little different. She's saying she asked
for it like a month or so ago. Tony is
saying it was only in the last two weeks. Originally
he said he told her no, but now that she's
going to be getting her release eminently is kind of
the way he made a sound. So I'll say this
probably not Sammy wants again, has giving himself negative attention.
Like I don't know if I'm wwe do I want
to take the chance to make an investment in this guy. Now.
The one thing we know about them, you come in
and you start doing the things that you're they'll cut
you right away because they just don't care.
Speaker 2: They'll they'll cut you. They're not lacking for talent. They
don't have to put up with that crap.
Speaker 3: No, and even they just if you aren't gonna get
on board with the way things are done there, they
will get rid of you. You're playing and simple right,
wrong or indifferent, they will. So he needs to be
Where's he gonna go? TNA, honestly, like that's probably the
best fit.
Speaker 2: TNA is probably a good fit. He could be definitely
hold down the X division and TNA. He wouldn could
use him, would be good in TNA and tn A
would benefit from having him.
Speaker 3: That is probably better and I think it would benefit
and I think that it would be a good place
for his wife as well. To hone, she's not ready
for prime time wrestling. I'm sorry, she's she's he's not
very good.
Speaker 2: She has the look and nothing.
Speaker 3: Else, nothing else. So but no, I wish him the best.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, best case. And I see why seven years
ago they looked at Sam and thought this is worth
investing it and looked into Yeah, like I get why
they I saw it too, But I think we have
to agree. He is in a worse situation ever.
Speaker 3: All good looking kid, athletic, you know, just he's missing
the intangibles that aren't the end ring or the physical part.
It's the between the ears is what's killing him. And
you know, I hope for his sake because I you know,
I give Darby a hard time, but good for him.
I'm glad that he's having a successful career and that
the guy that runs the company he works for loves
and trusts him that much. And the fan base loved him,
so I can't take that away from him. I don't
have to like him, but I can respect the grind.
So I do respect the grind, Whereas with standing it's
like I don't. I can't even spect anything he's done
because all he's done has made himself a spectacle, and
not in a good way.
Speaker 2: Well, you want to talk about somebody causing issues backstage?
That can move us right on to the next pillar.
We're talking jungle Jack Perry, previously the Jungle Boy, I
guess he's a man now Jack Perry, I mean another
and the title holder. He had the national title briefly,
he's been tag titles, he's had titles, he's had world
title matches, that he lost so arguably though he is
probably of all the pillars, like well MJF doesn't interesting stuff.
But old Jack may have had the biggest actual effect
on AEW as a company just by some things that
happened backstage with a guy who works for a different company.
Speaker 3: Now, yeah, I would say that that was one of
the biggest negatives to AW. I look back between that
at the first all in and what happened to brawl out,
and you take those two things away, and Punk's still there.
What does AEW look like right now? And I I
firmly believe that they would be they wouldn't be passed WWE,
but I think that gap would be a lot tighter.
I think the public perception after all that went down
hurt that company more than what actually happened. I think
it was the perception of that it was the inmates
were running the asylum. Tony had no control over his
people or his roster. I still believe that. I think
he's doing a better job now. But you know the
Jack Perry thing, and you know, I'm not absolving punk.
Punk is the forty. Punk is the forty at the time,
five year old man. Don't let the punk kid bait you,
because that's all he did. He let him bait him,
and he took the bait because he couldn't had no
self control, and he got himself fired. But I think
that Jack Perry should have got a pink slip right
along with him.
Speaker 2: I could see that. I mean, we give Jack credit
for causing that, but like he was like just a
small piece of the entire puzzle that caused that problem.
A lot of it was leadership. It was the young bucks,
it was the third Sheets. It was Punk being the
most immature forty five year old on the planet that
his skinned man made that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was also Jack being a young dumb punk.
Speaker 3: I mean, right, But it never gets to the Jack
Perry part. If Tony is a boss right after Hang
Mang goes into business for himself and the promo and
the ring leading up to their match, and if he
goes takes the bull by the horns and say, Punk
didn't tell me to fire anybody. You know, I don't
know where you're getting your information. Everything this happened with
Cole Punk. Anything this hap in this company has been
one hundred percent. My decision is the owner of this company.
You need to pipe down. He didn't do anything wrong.
You get him in a room before, but he let
it fester. Yes, yes he did, and you know him
let the other people did what they did. They have
to have self control. But it never gets to that
point if Tony's a boss.
Speaker 2: Correct and like you said, he has been better about
that kind of stuff since then, maybe he learned a lesson,
but you know that we can re litigate that all day.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm it's been beaten to death and I
get it, and it's just you know, but from a
Jack Perry standpoint, he's another one that you like. If
you slot him in the right spot, I can get
down with like him as in your company is you
know do he's another guy to me, he'll he should
never be considered for a world championship because he's just
not believable and that I can't believe him beating a
hangman Paige, who's you know, probably sixty pounds heavier than him.
That's the one thing I guess where I could be
a little bit off is that it's not a very
big man company. Well, sure, most of your top talent
are two twenty five or under, so I mean it's
but I mean even at that him and Darby are
just so much smaller. Still, it's just it's hard to
for me the believability of it. And I don't and
I don't think his at least with Sammy, he has uh,
he has that the move set and the high like
Jack Perry, like isn't even like doesn't really do anything
all that exciting when he's wrestling.
Speaker 2: Right, he is very much a right in the middle
lane of AAW.
Speaker 3: Like.
Speaker 2: He's good, like he would be like one of the
better workers in like w w MA and roster. Sure,
but in AAW he's just another guy that does a
lot of the same as everybody else, Like, oh, you
do a reverse hurricane run, Yeah, so does the rest
of the roster, right, And he's good at that, But
he's he has yet to figure out promos really.
Speaker 3: Ever.
Speaker 2: Every once in a while, i'll cut one that's not embarrassing,
but half the time he's got a knife, he's stabbing stuff.
He's not believable. He has great hair. I'll give him that.
He's got great hair. He had a famous father, very
helpful things. Apparently. It's a shame, it's a shame he
didn't get some acting chops from the old Man because
maybe they Yeah, But I mean I think, and I'm
with you, I wouldn't put him in the world title,
but I think like competing for the TNT title half
of a tag team champion fine, perfectly fine, especially if
the other one is a big person that happens to
be a dinosaur. I think that works absolutely fine. But
I mean, even when he was the escapegoat character that
a lot of people apparently thought was going to be
really good, it was just him driving around in an
old bus and being weird. Yeah, yeah, a lot of
that was not great.
Speaker 3: No, And he was part of maybe what could have
been a great angle that the absolutely screwed up within
three days of the angle when they attack Tony, you
can do that, right, And I was like really really like,
I was like, Okay, where's this going. I was like
intrigued until I've seen tiny Tony sitting in the war
room at the draft with the stupid neck brace on.
But in the bitch of it was it wasn't he
wasn't selling it. It was like he was just he
was smiling like hey, check it out, look at look
was like looking, I'm cool, man, I own a Wrestling
Company look at and I'm just like, Yep, you totally
lost it. You totally blew that angle.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, even if you remove that ridiculousness from it.
They also it went nowhere because reputedly behind the scenes,
Tony didn't want people to somehow think that he wasn't
still running the show, so they basically blew up the
entire story and that was one of those things that
could have been or like you said, it was shocking,
and like I said, you can only have Tony Kahan
be attacked for the first time once once. If you
do it again, it's going to be a reach read
and nobody should be looking forward to it because how
badly you did this once, you really only get one
shot at it, and they gifted it was The.
Speaker 3: Attack was great. What happened on screen the night it
happened a plus everything they did afterward, you know, and
I talked about it on the last episode a little
bit is I said, that's what aw has missed from
their inception, is that one storyline that catches absolute fire,
that brings eyeballs that could They've had two that I
thought could have been it, and they screwed them both up.
One is that. The other was the inception of the
Death Writers.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that started out also very okay. That started
out with Moxley putting a plastic bag over Brian Anderson's
that I didn't like that either, But theoretically the overarching
idea of Moxley wanting to like take over the company,
like rebuild his own image. That would have been interesting,
and then it wasn't. And then it also just kept
going even though it wasn't and.
Speaker 3: It's still going to this day.
Speaker 2: It's going right now on paper.
Speaker 3: Don't know what, and I still don't know what their
purpose really is. Was is going to be? Are the faces?
Are the heels are.
Speaker 2: They're just They're just that they are worse. Yeah, because
I mean again, he seemed like he started out with
like like he could improve and he's really almost exactly
the same wrestler in the same spot as he was.
Speaker 3: The coolest thing he did was when he made made
his t n T belt that time. That was kind
of cool.
Speaker 2: He melted it down.
Speaker 3: I thought that was cool.
Speaker 2: That was interesting, and then I mean that wasn't even
a bad tn T tower And I guess but they
didn't do much with it though. He's just kind of
back to where he was, except for he's jungle Jack.
Perry's did a jungle Boy, So I guess that's an improvement.
But I would say as far as being a pillar,
he isn't that well and.
Speaker 3: It seems like maybe he's now, you know, the did
the vignettes for him resigning, you know, that he resigned
his contract that he's going to stay. That's so maybe, like, finally,
do you feel like, Okay, you've learned your lesson from
all of your things you did. You've been a you know,
a good citizen, you've been a good soldier for for
the company, you kept your nose clean, and maybe now
maybe this is going to be his the resurgence of
his career. So I mean, maybe, again, I'm not rooting
against them. You know, hopefully they're going to get behind him.
They'll get some good creative with him, and and he
can be a more positive influence on on the product.
Speaker 2: That would be ideal. And I mean he has stated
in a Collision promo, so you didn't see it, neither
anybody else, but he is gunning for the world title.
That is his stated goal. So good when you got
people talking about that. But you want to talk about
people gunning for world titles, let's talk about the fourth Piller.
I don't think it's any spoiler to say this is
the best of before we are, of course talking about
Maxwell Jacob Friedman m j f yep.
Speaker 3: I said it last week. He's my favorite all around
performer in the business right now. I think that there
isn't one thing that he doesn't do as well or
better than anybody else in the world, and he's damn
entertaining when he does it. So absolutely me, he's the
here's where I'm gonna say, he's I think at this
point now he's just falified as a pillar.
Speaker 2: Though, well, he's a three time world champion and a
huge star in his own right at this point, so
I would agree with you. He's no longer a pillar.
He's established. Yeah. He the pillars need to be holding
him up now because he is a statue of a
golden god, and the pillars hold him up and he
holds the title and it's glorious and beautiful.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So m Jeff Great Talker, super underrated in the ring,
even though everybody knows he's very good in the ring,
like so good in fact, can you think of any
what don't you? Can you name something you don't like
about MJF in his current incarnation other than them taking
the title off of him and his kind of random
knee injury.
Speaker 3: No, because the one thing that I could have complained
about him up until this latest run would have been
the sometimes he went a little too far, like low
hanging fruit kind of stuff and got a little too silly.
He's cleaned a lot of that up in this run.
And he's just to me. When he's on the screen
and he has a microphone in his hand, I want
to hear what he has to say.
Speaker 2: Good. And he looks good, he wrestles good, he's he's,
he's he's.
Speaker 3: The epitome of if I was starting a company and
I was going to use the pillar thing, which I'm
not a huge fan of, but I get it. I mean,
you're establishing your company, so I get it. I'll let
a slide. But he did everything. He improved. He's improved
in the ring. He's improved his look. He's got his
nutrition and his ipplements and everything else dialed in. He
looks the part, and he's talked about it in interviews.
Is he's like, if I want it, he wants to
look believable. He wants when he has when he's in
it for people look and go. That guy can kick
somebody's ass. And you know, just a little background. I started.
My love for wrestling started the first thing I ever
seen was Roddy Piper smacking Superfly Jimmy Snooka upside the
head with a coconut and Roddy Piper is who made
me fall in love with wrestling. So when during the
Rock and Wrestling Connection, I wanted him to beat Hogan.
I was never a hawk of maniac. Every time he wrestled,
I want I'm like, he should be the champion. He's
the coolest dude. You guys got like you know and yeah,
I mean if you're having a pillar like he did
everything that that's what you want your pillar. You want
your pillar to be here and you want them to
elevate and get to the top, and then you want
the next crop coming behind, like you said, to hold up.
It should be like a machine. You're just constantly churning
him and he is everything. I don't think if you
would have asked Tony in twenty nineteen when they were
getting ready to kick this thing off going into the
first double double or nothing, because that was the very
first televised AW event, correct, was the pay per view
double or nothing?
Speaker 2: Technically aw yeah, because they didn't count.
Speaker 3: Because Alan was roa to independent or whatever it was.
If I don't even think if you would have asked
him seven years ago that he could have even predicted
that MJF would be as good as what he became
as quickly as he did.
Speaker 2: Well, No, I'm a huge MJFF fan. I liked MJFF
from the get go because he was always a good talker.
Even though he had some you know, things I would
quibble with, he was always good. But even I wouldn't
have said, oh, yeah, in seven years, he's gonna be
a three time world champion before he turns thirty. I
don't think anybody would have got he would have guessed that.
I guarantee he knew that was gonna but I think
most people would assume that that's very unlikely. Uh, and
he has, even though there have been missed aff good
Lord Adam Cole and MJF almost killed a e W.
I swear it almost ended the whole company. It ended
the company for me for a couple of months, like
I could watch that product. Oh but yeah, I mean
just for funzies, I mean we can. I think we
both agree. MJF is in a better position. I think
better a hand. Just for fun, Do you want to
go ahead and rank the four of them? My number
one is MJF. I don't know about you. I assume
Darby is your number one.
Speaker 3: Josh thought we were friends, buddy.
Speaker 2: Oh no, you were saying how much you respected him
and you love Sting and he was associated with Darby.
Speaker 3: Sting was overrated.
Speaker 2: That'll get Wady to listen to the episode every time.
Speaker 3: Every time he goes on a tirade about Sing. I
just feel so vindicated when I'm sitting on my couch
listening and walk and I'm like, yep, yep, I'm like,
take that, Barber, take that.
Speaker 2: I'd like Sting. I'm a Steing fan, but I also
appreciate how much I know it needles that and.
Speaker 3: I like full transparency. His sitting in the rafters run
was awesome. I loved every bit of it. I didn't
want to miss one Monday Night dro because I wanted
to see if Steing was gonna come down from the
rafters and go after the nWo every single week. I
want to. But somebody said it on the poster the
other day. The reason that that went so well is
because he never had to talk and he never had
to wrestle.
Speaker 2: Right, Steing was at his best when he wasn't talking
or wrestling. You know, the two most important parts of
being a wrestler.
Speaker 3: Right, So, but I would agree with you. I think
we're both in agreement. Mjf's number one.
Speaker 2: Easy, number one, Yeah for me. A number two Now
it gets complicated. I would put Darby at number two,
not just because he's the world champion, but just because
I think he's accomplished the most and been like the
most important out of the other three if you don't
count important away.
Speaker 3: Yep, and people are going to be surprised, the people
that know me, I agree. I would have to put
Darby's number two.
Speaker 2: No, I know you, and I'm alfo surprised. I didn't
think I made that good. Have a case for it,
but I mean you're to.
Speaker 3: Take my personal and I have to take my personal
feelings for just looking at it from an accomplishment standpoint,
I can't take it away from him. I don't have
to like it to be able to recognize what he's accomplished.
So I can think it's stupid. But they did it,
and you know what, people loved it. All I keep
hearing is people talking about how great it was only
four weeks. But those four weeks, you know, the matches
were great, and he you know, they told a great story.
Because you knew he just wasn't going to be able
to keep it up because of the beatings he was taking.
And you know, so that's sure loved it. So you
know what, I didn't like it. But guess what, maybe
I'm wrong.
Speaker 2: Well I wouldn't score that far. Opinions opinion. You don't
like it, you don't like it, Like I don't like lobster,
But all I ever hear about is how good it is.
So I don't know, but everybody that I see that
eats lobster, they're really just using an excuse to eat
liquid butter. That's what's happening, the same reason people like popcorn.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's the difference between me and most people
is like, if I just wanted some melted butter, I'm
the guy. I'll just drink some melted butter.
Speaker 2: That's me.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So on Tuesday nights, the conversation doesn't stop when nxtnds,
it's just getting started. I'm Nate Lindberg, and alongside my
co host Kelly Wells, we bring you PWT Talks NXT.
We go live on the PW Torch YouTube channel about
fifteen minutes after the show to break down matches storylines
and surprises, and we take your questions and comments from
the live chat miss us Live. But you still want
to be part of the show, send your thoughts to
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at pw torch dot com.
Speaker 2: Howe, we're talking about lobster. Oh yes, so we got
MGFT number one, Darby number two, surprisely, but part of
that because the other two guys, so number three, I
gotta put Jungle Jack Perry because he's still on TV,
he's not in R and he has some accomplishments and
has I think improved some a little bit.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I know this doesn't make for a very entertaining
podcast when we were green on everything, but I would say, yes,
Jack Perry would be number three and at least poor
Sammy bringing up the rear right.
Speaker 2: Which again, if I was supposed to rank season where
I thought they were going to be in twenty nineteen,
I would still have MGF number one, but I would
have Sammy number two.
Speaker 3: I think, oh yeah, yeah, at the at the inception, absolutely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I probably would have done like then Darby and
then Jungle Boy. That probably would have been in order
I put them in it.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I agree get drunk. So it has changed
since the beginning of how we would have ranked them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, wrestling is it's a crapshoot sometimes, man, you can't
see how things are going to go. But there is
also a more objective way to figure out which of
these people are better more than our opinion. These four
were involved in a four way title match in twenty
twenty three at Double or Nothing, Adam, do you recall
who came out on top of that match?
Speaker 3: I do believe it was m j F.
Speaker 2: Maxwell Jacob Friedman is correct because the other three were
not on mjfs level. That level, of course, being the
level of the devil as they say, that's the one.
So yeah, I think we have cannon proof the MJF
is the best of the four.
Speaker 3: Yep, yeah, I don't think. I don't think that if
you pulled all the w fans anybody would disagree with that.
You might get a few that would say that Darby
might be ahead of them just because they're wrong.
Speaker 2: But I mean it's I mean, Darby and MJF are
very different people. I can see how some types of
people would lean more towards Darby.
Speaker 3: You know what funny though, is they're probably the most
intertwined of the pillars. They have the most history with
each other, they do.
Speaker 2: You know, MJF hadlock takeover Darby. They've that's been going
on since well before AW even existed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I mean that's I mean, so you got
that going for you, and you know, maybe that'll be
another thing that Shills were. As much as I like
and respect and love MJF, he obviously has a lot
of love and respect for Darby because you don't right
the ship that you've done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, MJF has enough stroke that if he didn't want
Darby to have his little run, I'm sure he could
have prevented.
Speaker 3: It, especially at his expense. Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there is that. So I do remember, even
like during that four way match, like MJF and Mike,
these guys aren't. That was like not a great main event.
I remember thinking because the other three were like just
not I know, I said it joking. The second they
were literally not on this level though that was a
lower level of pay per view match, even though it
was the Pillars.
Speaker 3: Right, well, and you think that, you know, I know,
if I was one of the other three eyes, and
if you you have to be objective when you're in
any athletic endeavor, like I know, like me, I grew
up playing baseball and softball. I still play, you know,
and when i'm a'm playing now, and especially as an
older guy playing with guys way younger than I am,
like I can look back and go, Okay, you're losing
a stuff. You need to work a little harder to
make up the difference because these guys are nipping at
your heels, you know. That's so I would hope that
when you if I was one of those other three
guys and I went back, and I'd hope he watched
the match back and could go, yeah, I'm not I'm
not where that guy's at, and so what do I
need to do to get there? If that's where If
you really love the craft and you love the game
and you want to take yourself to the next level,
and I think that that's I'll give it to Darby,
as much as I don't like him, Darby's a totally
different performer today than he was when that matchup.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was like three years ago, and then he
has improved a lot and he's been a world champion.
So those are there are four pillars. And again those
were literally just people that MJF mentioned during a promo.
At some point it kind of took a the lifestone.
I think Tony Khan commented on him before he said, yes,
those are four of our pillars. But he also, in
Tony Khan fashion, did not actually respond to the question,
pretty much said the whole company as a pillars. Kind
of where he landed, I'm sure, but that does bring
up kind of interesting idea. I mean, those were the
four that MJF kind of named off, and as we've
kind of noted, some of those were good picks, especially
at the time, and some have born out to p
not as great. But there are other options. Because MGF
gave that promo in twenty twenty one, so I mean,
there are other options for who could have been considered
a pillar. I think a big one. I think you
and I would probably agree that Hangman Adam Page could
have been referred to as a pillar. Yeah, he was
now he is a couple of years older than all
four of these guys, but only a little bit. And
he's still was base a homegrown ae w tellent and
call this Hangman right now, Hangman is currently thirty five,
so he is.
Speaker 3: So pretty young in wrestling years though.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's not working a crazy grueling schedule or anything,
so yeah, he's got plenty of time ahead of this.
Why it's insane that he can't challenge for the world title,
that's a different story. Yeah, but yeah, I think Hangman
would have been a better Pillar. I think he was
more established than the other four, like as far as
wrestling levels, but I think he would have been kind
of home run, surefire, possible pillar.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean I didn't even go with it. It was
just so odd. I could have.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you could have maybe like said that, you
can't really call him he wasn't You can't really say
he was homegrown because he really was established in New
Japan and Roa, and they were both of much bigger
companies at the time, you know, before uh Tony you know,
completely pillared their business. But uh, you know I would
have at the beginning, I would have me personally, Hangman
would have been a pillar, So I would have taken
one of either Jungle Boy or uh Darby out for him.
And then I have another name that didn't age well,
but at the beginning of the company would have been
a pillar and it was brought up by mister uh
Chick magnet Punk would have been Britt Baker.
Speaker 2: Yes, I have that on my list over here. Yeah,
he just used that as a dig at MJ after
a promo, But that was a valid point, no, especially
in a women's division that needed something anything. Britt was
like the pillar holding up the women's division for a
couple of years there.
Speaker 3: As much as I don't didn't care for the bleeding,
that was it. That match with thunder Rosa where she
got the bed bad, where she was bleeding so bad.
Oh yeah, but you know, not my cup of tea.
But I mean that skyrocketed. She was one of the
bigger stars on their television from that point moving forward
for a long time before her true backstage personality I
think came out and people just didn't want to work
with her anything.
Speaker 2: Yes, technically she is still on the roster. She could
be debuting at Redemption right now. Adam and you and
I will till tomorrow.
Speaker 3: Right, we won't, so, you know. And I think that
she also wasn't one that she rested on her laurels,
and she did not put the work in to improve
her in ring. As better competitors came into that women's division,
as they started to build out that roster, she started
to really fall down the ladder because she was standing
still and they were all blown past her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, uh, Stephie and I did an episode
on the aw's women's division. That's exactly what he said,
is like basically the pass her by. She didn't improve.
There were times when it seemed like she was getting
worse in the ring as Yeah, and she never had
a great superkick, but she's like missing and watch it.
It's like, oh man, now she's still had the solid personality,
she had a good look and all that. So, and
don't forget she was a dentist. That was a very
important part. They mentioned that every time she came out.
Apparently she's still a dentist. At least she has something
to fall back on because she is not wrestling.
Speaker 3: What I would do with her if I didn't think
that she could keep up in the ring, But she
can talk I'd make her a manager.
Speaker 2: She'd be a great manager. Also, ae w they do
managers be perfectly logical. She could lead in great.
Speaker 3: Such and not a valet like how Additionally, I think
she could be a traditional wrestling manager and it is
so unique because she is a woman, right and she
can take her to be trailed and it would be trailblazing.
I think she.
Speaker 2: Could be like a female don Kalen. I would watch
that right as the personality.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd be one hundred percent down with that. I
don't want to watch Rustle, but I'll listen to her talk.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I kind of thought that's what they were doing.
Do you remember when we didn't know who the devil
was in the MJF Adam Cole saga, there were rumors
that it could be Britt and she would be managing
Adam or whoever, and that I remember thinking that would
actually be interesting, very uninteresting, because it was just Adam Cole.
It was. Yeah, it's truly bad.
Speaker 1: Just a reminder. You can reach us at Wade Keller
Post Show at gmail dot com if you're interested in
contributing to the Flagship or Wade Keller Post Show at
gmail dot com. If you're interested in submitting a question
or a topic or even a rant on the Wade
Keller Pro Wrestling post shows.
Speaker 2: A couple other people that came to mind for me
as pillars. I thought of Orange Cassidy, not at not
in twenty nineteen. Again, this was shortly after, but he
during his initial run with the at the time Atlantic
title able whatever that trash title was. But when he
was defending that day and day out, that was good.
Speaker 3: That was a great run.
Speaker 2: I got a lot of respect for him during that.
And then I looked at his age. He is forty
two right now, so even seven years ago he was
mid late thirties.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's hard to be a pillar to me. You'd
have to be under thirty at the inception of the
company to probably have been a pillar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's mean. It's also why even when they brought
Ricky Starkson, I was kind of a fan, but he
was actually already kind of on the older side at
that point. Here's somebody I thought was going to be
a big deal that I hadn't heard of before I started.
I went to fighter Fest, one of their early pay
per views before they had Dynamite, and they were like
they had a book. They had t shirts for like
five people. I'm like, well, these five people are going
to be the important people. They had John Moxley, how
about a John Moxley tar shirt? Or still how did
I wear it? Had Kiddie Omega and a Young Bucks shirt.
I think they had a Britt Baker shirt. At that point.
They had a shirt for Kip Sabian. I'm like this guy,
this Kip saying I don't understand, Like, are you gonna
say something nice about Kip Saviian.
Speaker 3: I like Kip Savian too, winning first, like, and he
had a good look and he was good in the ring,
and it just never happened. He was different, he looked
different at a different look, different style than everybody else. Yeah,
but it just didn't click. Yeah, and then cardboard boxing
or the bag on his bead, like like I was,
I was entertained by it. I'm like I wanted to
see where it was going, Like, what's going on with this?
You know?
Speaker 2: Yeah? They were doing something there and then god, last scene,
he was hanging out with Nick Wayne and mother Wayne,
and I mean Nick is back now and Kipp is, uh,
well you know what, Kip goes home to Penelope for tonight.
I think his wrestling career has still been fruitful in
that way.
Speaker 3: He's win in life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's only thirty four right now though, so yeah,
something could still happen. He's still good as far as
I know. And the last one I kind of thought
of was a Scorpio Sky who was one of the
first tag champions, and it looked like they were gonna
do some single stuff with him, and then nope, and
then injury and they bring him back and then not clicking,
and then he disappears.
Speaker 3: A couple of interviews you think he's coming back, and
then he disappears again.
Speaker 2: He was on Collision last night. Yeah, he was in
a six man tag with Dante and Matt Sidell. They lost,
So it gives you an idea where that's at. They
lost on Collition. They were a jobber to the Lethal Twist,
if that gives you an idea. They're not even jobbers.
The stars their jobbersh talent like big.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I think I think you and I in an agreement,
like maybe maybe you can have six pillars? You got
you add If you had six, I would say easy,
ad hangman ad Britt, you got it. I don't say
who had swap out. I feel like I would swap
Hangman for Jack Perry though. That sounds right, That sounds right.
So who would your pillars be today? That is a
fair question. Here's the thing. When I was thinking over
possible pillars for today, I couldn't come up with a
lot of young men. I thought of several women. I'm like, well,
they're young, like my world came to mind. I'm like,
she good up and comer, and I don't know how
you are on spoilers. I haven't been watching Redemption, but
I did see that she won her match against Chietah
and is new TV a champion, So good for her.
Congratulation with her.
Speaker 3: Yes, I was very nervous after she lost to Mercedes
that she was just gonna disappear, get exiled the ROH,
to never be seen until they needed somebody for.
Speaker 2: Like a tournament, right like Athenas.
Speaker 3: I'm glad that they did something with her because I
think she's got something. She's got a look. I think
he has some charisma.
Speaker 2: Decent in the ring, and she is very young. She's
twenty three, so plenty of time to improve.
Speaker 3: Guy's the woman if she works at it.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, So if I want to fit some men into
my pillage, I feel like Kevin Knight is one, but
he's also of him. He is twenty nine. He's a
little older than I thought. Here's one I'm one hundred
percent sure. I won't even waffle a little bit. Kyle Fletcher,
he's absolutely my main pillar and he's only twenty seven.
Speaker 3: He'd be my one A too, and my one B
would be Takeushta.
Speaker 2: Takeshta is a great one b Taqushta thirty one.
Speaker 3: But oh he's older than I thought.
Speaker 2: But yeah, he's That's what I also thought saying my
first two like Fletcher and Takesha, which is the same
thing we said last week. We were thinking about elevating
young talent like Fletcher and Takesta because they're so damn good.
But Takesha is good enough, and he's I mean, he's
not even in his prime and he's already so good though.
So yeah, as far as like really young talent, Nick
Wayne twenty one, Hook is twenty seven now and it
still has not accomplished anything. Blake Christian, who I mentioned
a minute ago, Vanilla Baby, Yeah, he's twenty eight. He's
I thought, I thought he was one of those real
young talents. I'm like, oh, he's twenty two, he'll be
pretty good a couple of years. No, he has twenty eight.
He's gonna be thirty in a couple of years. Yeah,
and probably still a ro oh. I know you don't
want to hear this. Yuda and Garcia are twenty nine
twenty seven perspectively. Not good enough to pills though, right, yeah.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, they're not good enough to serve
me coffee.
Speaker 2: I feel like there was a period of time when
they could have done something with Garcia. Yeah, he is
good in the range.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they just he should have been the one that went.
Where I think they went wrong is the whole thing
was when Regal was still there and they were doing
the Blackpool Combat Club. I thought that Garcia would have
fit better with his feud that he had with Daniel
Brien or Brian Danielson. Why they went DA instead, and
then like he just he did every time they start
to get a little momentum behind Garcia, they would allow
him to do something that just totally took you out
of it, like the dance and BS and like.
Speaker 2: Right because he's like and then he I mentioned this earlier,
he joined Jericho, wore Jericho's leather pants, and yes danced. Yeah, bad, bad,
bad look, bad stuff damage. Probably be Andrea Paris this.
Speaker 3: Point, probably without a long long vacation.
Speaker 2: Yes, so my pillars were going to be my world.
Kevin Knight, Kyle Fletcher, and I wanted to say, I
really struggled with a fourth. Takeshta, I think is the best,
even though he is slightly over thirty and partially works
for New Japan. It's hard to have a pillar that
has a dual contract. Also, right, that's not a good
look either against them.
Speaker 3: For whatever amount of time when he's doing the g
ones or he's.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, and that's not that's not a knock
on Takeshta. That's a Tony problem, a similar one though
again you're don't watch a collision. But Persephone has been
on there a lot recently, and I like filod Yeah,
she's good, she wrestles good, she's got a good look,
she's got some personality, and she's only twenty four, but again,
macan Bain is twenty eight and impressive tag team champion,
looks good, bigger than everybody else. Yeah, I think she's
got if they if they do something, she's just gonna
waste a weaig in the tag division for four years
or whatever. Then who knows. I don't say wrestler Julia
Hart who like five years ago, people like man Julia Hart.
She is so young, she's gonna be very talented in
five years. FYI, she has not improved much. She's still
only twenty four. She could still improve, but you know
what she needs. She needs to be an r O
H or she needs like NXT. I bet if she
went through NXT, she would come out the other end.
I don't know, way better, way better. Yeah, now you
know who you can almost include as a pillow. In fact,
if you're gonna take Takeshta at thirty one is a
viable pillar, Tony Storm is thirty.
Speaker 3: I was gonna ask Tony was the problem that I
won't say Tony's that she's the same as MJF. She's
surpassed what a pillar would be. She's really the top
of your division because she's multiple time champion. Now she's
done all there is to do in their women's division,
and she may be when she's on screen one of
the just it's a train wreck that you want to
watch like I mean that, I mean, then the best
possible way is it's just like you have no idea
what her unhinged ass is gonna say, and it's you know,
she entertaining, and you know, I know I give Zach
a hard time, but she's probably from an all around standpoint,
the promos, the things that she does, character the entering work.
She's probably the second best women's wrestler in North America
right now. I say, Eo Skuy's number one.
Speaker 2: That's fair. It's hard to argue this guy obviously. Oh uh.
Speaking of train wrecks, I considered Tekla briefly, but she's
in a similar boat. She's actually older than Tony. She's
thirty three and already world champion. She's I would have.
Speaker 3: Thought she was forty three and retired from the poles,
past her prime stripper.
Speaker 2: To me, yes, it's far. I can tell. That's what
she's looked like the entire time. So she's start looking
like arn Anderson. Arn Anderson's looked forty years old since
he was nineteen, right like Tomasso Champa only recently turned forty,
but I've assumed he was fifty for the last twenty years.
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Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 2: Another one I considered was Willow. But Willow is thirty two,
and again we're not watching redemption. Willow might be world
champion right now.
Speaker 3: It's possible likely he's going to be. Yes, Yeah, I
think that's the direction they're going.
Speaker 2: Very likely. So I mean I lifted off a bunch.
I can kind probably guess yours. But what would you say?
You're four current aw pillars. I mean again, we're working
towards the future.
Speaker 3: Really hard, you know, for being such a young company,
the lack young talent in a lot of ways. I
hate to say that. Flucker obviously obviously right, no Ques,
I still give it to Taka, just because even though
he's a little bit older, his career is a little younger.
Even though he's a little older, especially to the North
American market, and he hasn't been overly utilized either.
Speaker 2: He hasn't been fine down or anything. He has a
lot of awkward trajectory ahead of him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I go those two. I'd probably go Megan Baine.
Speaker 2: I can see that sky blue. I hear you.
Speaker 3: If I'm gonna take one of the spooky stiffer, she
has more talent than what Julia Hart does. I think,
you know what I don't think she's great, but I
think she's at least working at it. She's trying to
get better.
Speaker 2: She is. It's always sexist for me to think this,
but every like when sky Blue is dating Kyle Fletcher,
I'm like, well, surely she's he's helping trader. She'll be
good in a little while, right, I always assume like
when people are dating, like, yeah, they should be getting better.
That's exactly the point why I know that's not actually true.
I don't. I know my perception is wrong. That is
the exact case against.
Speaker 3: I imagine Brian Danielson, like I'm sure they have a
ring at their house, and I can imagine him going,
her going, come on, can you come out and train?
And him just going yeah, and he just goes out
there and he's just like every day, every day we
come out here, and every day I show you something,
and every day you just don't fucking get it and
like and just be like I just this is almost
like I could see because he's so into wrestling, like
him going, if it wasn't for the kids, I divorce
your ass. I could just imagine him just being like
what did I do? Just you know, but yeah, And
I'm having a hard time picking a fourth. I'll you
know what, Kevin Knight. I'll go with Kevin Knights.
Speaker 2: He's well, he could be world title champion right now. Adam,
we wouldn't know. God, I would have got a notification
of that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we would have. We would have heard.
Speaker 2: We would have heard, right, Zach blown up discord.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I'm even trying to think of, like, like
it is there a young tag team that you could
say is a pillar? And the closest thing I could
think of is the guns, but they're never really they're
more of a joke. I think there's some talent there,
but I know Weight was high on him that they're
good bumping heel team be a pillar. That's now like, yeah,
I can't. I can't really think of a legitimate fourth.
And like I said, it's just I think that for
being such a young company, they lack young up and
coming talent at the moment, and it's.
Speaker 2: Very have so many people in like their mid thirties
that's like almost the whole roster. Like Jay White's only
thirty three, but he's already like setting stone as whatever
the hell they're doing with him.
Speaker 3: I think that if I was Jay White as soon
as I could. If my contract was up in WWE
had some interest in me, I would have some conversations
with him of where do you think where do you
see me fitting in with your company. I think he
would definitely be a guy that would starting on an XT,
even though it probably be insulting to him. I don't
think he needs it, but I think he would send
him there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he would like rule n XT like
Adam Cold when he was there. It'd be like that
kind of thing.
Speaker 3: And I would go I followed him. I'd go to WWE.
I try to if I could stay healthy and have
a really good, like three year run there and then come.
Speaker 2: Back established and as a top guy immediately not playing
with Jews Robinson and Yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Think he well, I think he would be a lot
better off of like Bull Club's dead guys. That whole
concepts fucking dead. So let's just everybody go our separate.
Speaker 2: Ways and literally to night on the pay per view,
there's a they had like a two person chain match
between Old Bullet Club and Old Bullet Club, the Dogs
and the Bank Bank Gang. They're both Bullet Club cast
off basically, right, Yeah, Like what are they doing.
Speaker 3: Like who gives a ship? Like that was cool twelve
years ago?
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, who gives a shit? Is right?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: You know who I left off? Who might be a
good pillar. Now we're going very young. But Brodie Lee Junior,
if they corral him correctly, I mean, do you.
Speaker 3: Think he's got it?
Speaker 2: He does. I've seen clips of him. He's not. He's good.
I mean it's it's not as believable as say Darby
in the Ring, but he's is like actually fourteen, so
that makes sense.
Speaker 3: I think he's actually has a good chance that he's
gonna fill out. If you look at how big his
dad was and his mom is a you know, she
ain't a twig, no, and she's not fat either, But
I mean he's you know, she's thirty, you know, And
I think that he's got a good base there to
work off of. I you know, he's probably yeah, he
could well. I mean, ship that gave Nick Wayne a
contract before when he was the like sixteen, did they
go to an independent show and go as soon as
you turn eighteen, you're blah blah blah blah blah. And
he's got a lot of talent. I just hate his face.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's an effected it's a very Sam and Govar face.
And he was also very ugly.
Speaker 3: I think he's very ugly too, and ugly people bother me.
Speaker 2: And yet you and I are pretty good friends. So
I mean, let's just say what I think you're handsome. Yes,
that is again, this is an audio medium you can
lie to the people. I appreciate that, even.
Speaker 3: What you didn't even see. Like the other night when
you were co hosting the SmackDown Show and I called in,
did you see what my caption said at the bottom,
I said Josh's best friend?
Speaker 2: I did. I saw that, and mardin like, Adam is
not my best friend. I'm like, actually, no, I don't
really have any friends. He might be a best friend
for real, and then crafton meet and hang out with
Josh smack Down post show. Yes, I did notice and
appreciate that. Out of it, you're good people. All right. Well,
before we round this all the way out, let's not
leave WWE out of the criticism, I mean conversation. Okay,
So let's say starting, Let's say ww is a new
company they're starting right now, but they have the exact
same roster they have right now. Let's leave an XT
out of it, because that's a whole other can of worms.
Speaker 3: Right, So we're called the main roster.
Speaker 2: Only main roster WWE as of July twenty seventh, twenty
twenty six. What are you thinking if you were building
four pillars oba, oh right, and that one's right there
hitting in the face.
Speaker 3: Ye yep, no, he he. He has a lot of
the same issues that I have with Jungle Boy and Derby.
The thing he has going for him is he's tall, yep,
and I think that he can fill up. He reminds
me body wise a lot of young Randy Orton before
where he started to fill out, like pre evolution, like
when he was doing the whole where he kept breaking
his shoulder and doing the Randy ort and health update
thing like. So i'd say, javaon Howl's dragon off.
Speaker 2: Drags you know what's funny? And I looked it up
at some point, Draggon off. It's like thirty something. I
looked it up. Date of Bert. Why am I typing
date of birth instead of birthday? God damn it. Come on,
man was born in nineteen ninety three. Why are you
not telling me how old he is? Make me do math? Okay,
who I didn't want to get.
Speaker 3: The probably too old to be a pillar, I.
Speaker 2: Would say, but he was a pillar of the SmackDown
US title scene all of last year.
Speaker 3: And he was so good. Some of those matches were
so so good.
Speaker 2: It was the only good thing on those three hour
shows for a while.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I might get some flag for this,
but uh say it. Trick isn't there yet for me.
He's right now, he's an entrance in a song. He
has a lot of work to do there, and and
he's probably under thirty still, is he not?
Speaker 2: That would have made sense, And in my hand, I'm like, no,
I think Trick is older. No, Trick is thirty two.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's so. Melo is probably older too.
Speaker 2: I think Mellow is like a year young, he's thirty one,
or he's in that range. I mean, Oba and Javon
are too obvious starting points. I mean that would I
have to say, just for the record, those would be
my two Oba obviously it's number one. No questions asked.
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Speaker 3: I trying to think in the women's division.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what if it was if it was
a couple of years ago, it's Ria Ripley, that's the answer.
Speaker 3: But yeah, right now, to be right, same thing with
Ba is older than people think.
Speaker 2: She's mid thirties, yes, she's older than h Again, a
couple of years ago, I think Montenne would have been
a good choice, but uh yeah, not at this point.
Speaker 3: No, uh And I think they have more young talent,
but I don't see anybody after Oba and Javon where
I'm like, those are surefire future main inventors.
Speaker 2: Right Like I I've what Lyra has been doing recently.
Speaker 3: I was going to bring up Lyra and I was
actually going to bring up there's something about Fallon Henley.
Speaker 2: That I like. Valon Henley has several things I like,
although how much has to do with wrestling and stuff.
I do prefer out of the three, I think she
is the best in that group, and.
Speaker 3: Even being pushed really hard right now.
Speaker 2: They are she is half her women's tag team champion.
Good for her, and jac is out there every week
and over performing what I would have guessed for her.
Speaker 3: So yeah, no, I'm not gonna say it. I'm not
gonna say it. I'm gonna be I'm gonna be nice.
Speaker 2: She is more talented, she's always over. When I remember
when I heard she was women's champion, I'm like, oh,
NXT has gone down the ship her. But she is
genuinely she's always improving.
Speaker 3: Actually, so when she was in her original group with
Dolan and Mandy Rose, she was a distant third and
neck group, right, and then if you look at it now,
the other two are gone. She's the centerpiece of her
own group on the main roster that's getting multiple segments
a show.
Speaker 2: I mean, the biggest reactions for Heels on the show
mostly How old is JC That's a fair question. I
want to say thirty ish, But because I have the
Internet and the ability to make sentences last way longer
than they should, I can just look it up. She
is Why am I keep typing birthday? Born in nineteen
ninety six? So she is thirty this year?
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I can see her at least in her
I can see her holding It feels like it's easier
for the women to rise up and get kind of
like a Fluke title win. So I would be surprised
if she's a world change roster.
Speaker 3: The way loss of them to you know, to you're
not competing against as many competitors, and.
Speaker 2: Oh here's one I have not. I have not. Nothing
they have done with her has been promise scene since
she quote unquote debuted on the roster, but Blake Monroe,
if she was still on the AW roster, she would
have been easily one of my pillars based just on
the performance with Tony.
Speaker 3: I did not watch her run. How much now of
her was Tony?
Speaker 2: Yeah that's a fair question. Yeah she's only twenty seven,
But you're right, I didn't watch her NXT run. Maybe
it was good. I didn't hear any about it either though.
And then what she's been doing on SmackDown is fine,
I guess, but it's not anything.
Speaker 3: It's no, I mean, she hasn't even had a match yet.
Speaker 2: No, she's just randomly attacking people.
Speaker 3: In the backstage and being a mean girl, right, which
she is good at that.
Speaker 2: I mean, she's.
Speaker 3: So I mean, I guess. I guess if we were
going to pick another female to be a pillar like
I feel, I have to say Tiffany Stratton.
Speaker 2: And I don't want to say that, well, I should
take a page out of your book with Darby. Just
because I find Tiffany Stratton very grading and not that good,
does it mean that she isn't generally appreciated and doesn't
have a certain assets that would have made her a
superstar like fifteen years ago?
Speaker 3: And I'm with you because I'm not a huge fan,
but from I'm just looking at worthy have her positioned
in the company as she's that next crop coming up
behind the rheas the Charlotte's, the Bianca's, like, she's that
next tier down looking to kind of she's tasted a
little bit of that top. And you know you're not
gonna say it's Jade. Jade's too old. I think could
be considered a pillar.
Speaker 2: Too old and still somehow green, and you would want
to say, like Stephanie Vaker, but she's thirty three and
also disappeared after Julia. I don't know what they're doing
with Julia. I like Julia, but they apparently do not.
What about Oh, you know, Keana has outperform In fact,
when they appeared, when they appeared, Julia and Keana like
for a while, Keana was like the star of that group.
I don't think that was what they were going for either. No.
Speaker 3: I think that's why they broke him up, is because
I think they'd think they have something there to push
them on their own. And I think they've been disappointed
in Julia.
Speaker 2: I think that's accurate. Oh, they've also not given her
much of a chance to succeed, but also language bear,
there's lots of look into that. Keana is only twenty
nine though, but I mean Keana, say what you want
about her. She did eat a clean pen on Friday
from Chelsea Green, who generally never wins anything.
Speaker 3: So but Chelsea Green is a national presure and yeah,
she gets the most out of the least all the time.
She reminds me very much of where Sammy was before
he got so hot with the bloodlines, Like where everything
they gave him, he made the bus out of it.
Even when it was crap, he still made it entertaining.
And that's how I feel about Chelsea. She makes me laugh,
she makes me She's a much better entering performer than
what they allow her to show. Absolutely because for her
to have that match that she had in Luke Underground with.
Speaker 2: Her, yeah that's a crazy match, Like you can't just
be a person and do that.
Speaker 3: You can wrestle if you can do that match, And
you know, I wish he would let her, but she's
leaned into her character has always been from when she
was in TNA, a little bit goofy, more of a
comedy act, you know. So it's like it's her wheelhouse.
It's what she enjoys. And she seems very happy when
you hear her talk and interviews and stuff, like she's
living her dream. So I mean good for her. Yeah,
she's happy. Oh, rock setting there, that is the correct answer.
Speaker 2: Thank you for making it the Rocks. I she is
still super young and already very very good at what
she does.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think her her talking ability, like her
like the acting part of it has improved, leaves and
bombs already just and she was an n XT like
she's improved constantly from from the jump. And yeah, I
think that's that's my fourth pillar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Roxanne absolutely, gosh, well, I feel like I should
have different ones, but I think obviously oh ba Jevon
is correct. And then that you talked to me right
into Roxanne and nawd he forgot who your third one was?
They must well again we were struggling for those anything
after well, let's just say I found Yeah, you think
you did, say Falent and Palent does have something going
forward to She's also young, the most talented.
Speaker 3: Good look a good look.
Speaker 2: I can't say enough about that.
Speaker 3: Terrible, not not terrible on the mic, she's uh I've
watched a couple of clips of her on uh Tody's podcast.
Very well spoken, likable. When you hear talk you kind
of probably want to root for.
Speaker 2: So that stuff matters f y. I I watched After
Collision last night. They did like the uh uh kind
of road to redemption, things like yeah, appreciate they always do,
and they like had like a sit down interview with
like Willow and she is just cutting like the best
promo of Willow's career and nobody is gonna see it.
But she was so likable, vulnerable, intelligent, not talking down
in surpy. It was exactly what her promo should be
but never are It was so mad, becam like, why
couldn't this have just been the promo leading to the match?
Speaker 3: And you know that I'm a I love Willow, I'm
a big Willow fan, but there is something. It's like
she kind of started to get popular and I think
she leaned. She thought the reason people liked her was
the bubbliness, so she turned that up to like a fourteen.
Speaker 2: But in reality I like her in spite of that.
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean yeah, I like her. Look, I liked
that she you know, she's good in the ring.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but then the more she she started to talk
too much. Yeah, and I've been accused of that in
my life, that I talked too much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've actually never gotten that. Let me just leave
a chunk of silence to punctuate my point there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think that that, I think that would
be a pretty decent four pillars. And I don't know
what's coming up the pipe from NXT.
Speaker 2: I mean, well, I don't watch either, but I know
Tony D's on top. People who watch nic T NXT
have seemed to like him. And I know Mike Santana,
who might be getting a new name, also just debuted
there and I thought he. I liked him when he
was with a W And I didn't watch TNA obviously,
but I thought he did really well for himself there
as well.
Speaker 3: Forty yeah right, well.
Speaker 2: X T has been getting forty year olds like Naraku
formerly evil is like also right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't yeah, I'm just I can't think of
because they just don't. Oh what about dominic dom?
Speaker 2: Thank you? When you started to say somebody, I said,
go ahead and say it. I thought you were gonna
say dom. I think dom is right. Dom is like
just now thirty years maybe twenty nine. Still, he's very
young and already like the best. He's so good.
Speaker 3: Everybody loves to I just wish you'd actually use them
a little bit more in the ring. He hasn't wrestled
a ton in the last six months.
Speaker 2: Excuse me. He has a marquee match at SummerSlam. Adam,
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna look at Dan Holsen
and he I lose to Dan Hillson at Summer Se.
Speaker 3: I have a big He's gonna lose, which is mal practice.
As much as I both companies can't book worthy right now, Sue.
Speaker 8: Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
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PW boom dot com. Once again, that's pw boom dot com.
Speaker 2: It Honestly, I'm gonna I do need to amend my
pillars though. It's roxanm Perez, dominic Oba and Jabo that.
Speaker 3: Is, and I'll goggle the same and take failing out
put domin I think that that's a pretty good four pillars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good I mean, yeah, that's good for
the future. That would be good for WWE. Those are
four people that if they became free agents, I would say, aw,
sign them right now, don't just take them, steal them,
tamper with some contracts, Tony, grow some balls. Man, what's
Heven doing?
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's only tampering with the people from his partners.
Speaker 2: Right well, Adam, I think we have talked about the
four pillars ad nauseum. But I think let's just let's
just wrap the show up. I guess a group, we
can do a worship better as a group, the four
Pillars of ae W twenty nineteen versus as they are
now as a group. You think they're doing worse or better.
I guess not even than they were. Obviously as a group,
doing better just because they've improved so much. It's in
But are they doing worse or better than you would
have projected?
Speaker 3: For those four nineteen I think two of them.
Speaker 2: Because Sammy's dragging the whole group.
Speaker 3: Down, right, Sammy and Jungle Boy, it's like they've both
been disappointments. But then Darby has been way more than
what I would ever thought, and then JF has been
what we all thought he would be. He's the prodigy
that actually didn't miss because a lot of time you
have these up and coming can't miss, can't miss in
all sports, and then they miss all the time, didn't miss,
you know, and so you know, I'll say better, but slightly,
And that's only because MJF is really pulling the rest
of the three of them.
Speaker 2: Up and Darby, right, I'd say darbyby outperforming and MJF
is also doing better than I would have guessed, even
though I guess he would do great.
Speaker 3: So right, like you said, to be a three time
champion already before thirty, it is pretty impressive.
Speaker 2: Right, and then like he's never not around the title anyway,
Like whenever he comes back, I'm curious, what do you
think they're doing with him at all? In the rumor
is that he they moved the Omega matchup so he'd
have time to rest his knees, so he'd be ready
for whatever they're doing all in. And I'm only asking
you because I thought about it, and I came up.
Speaker 3: With nothing, the only thing I could think of. But
it doesn't make sense because they're both heels and would
be Swerved. Because what's Swerve doing right now?
Speaker 2: Well, Tony Kahan said, somebody asked him about where Sweve
has been, what he's been up to at the press thing,
and he said, ask me again after Redemption. So it's
possible Swerve came back and had a huge effect on
Redemption just twenty minutes ago. And of course you and
I already know although it's only twelve thirty that show
is probably not over yet. That's probably still going.
Speaker 3: No, it'll be right. It will shoot then just about
the time I got to get up to go to work.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, another reason I'm glad I didn't order it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, me too. I'd much rather be sitting here talking
to you than watching that. It'sn't a strong card for
me to to spend my money on.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, if they would have, if it had
been free, i'd be watching it. It's just I'm with you.
It just didn't warrant my fifty dollars, especially knowing I've
already like committed mentally to paying fifty dollars for all
end next month.
Speaker 3: So right, yeah, I'll be getting all in for sure.
I don't know. That was one of the few times
I'm gonna buy them, because I would definitely have a
fear of missing out that I'm going to miss something
if I don't see it. Where I knew that I
wouldn't miss anything tonight.
Speaker 2: No, No, I've seen clips. He can basically watch the
entire show. He just follow aw on Facebook. They show
like thirty clips from each match. You can kind of right,
it's together, but instead I'm talking with you, which is
cheaper and arguably better.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely more entertaining. I know I find your art
panter more entertaining than watching a you know, random fourteen matches.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't need to see the dogs, the
Bangman Gang, and I love j White. I would be clear,
I'm saying nothing.
Speaker 3: I know you do. I know you love them, and
they just they have not done him well at all.
Speaker 2: It hurt Josh's heart over there. You all right? Yeah,
so we did the worship better thing we have landed.
That's the gimmicks. So the gimmick's done, so the show
basically also done. I should add that if you're listening
to this show and it kept got keen interrupted by commercials,
I don't know about anybody else, but it feels like
they the dude wipes people tapped in. I got a
dude Wipes commercial on a podcast the other day and
I just had bad aid WW flashbacks. I didn't like
it at all. But if you want to go VIP
to avoid those unnecessary things, you can do that at
pw torch dot com Slash go Dash VIP. That's how
you do that. Adam and I are both VIP members.
We don't listen to commercials for losers.
Speaker 3: And hidden.
Speaker 2: What would you say is your favorite VIP specific show?
Speaker 3: My favorite VIP specific show would be worse or better
with Josh and Stephanie.
Speaker 2: Now, to be clear, I just said people can listen
to this show free. It's not I would call it
VIP specific. It's the fix me too, That's the reason
I signed up for VIP.
Speaker 3: It's the fix. I mean Tad.
Speaker 2: Stephanie's answer to Tad's so good, and I.
Speaker 3: Love the how him and Wade play off each other.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you get a different, arguably better version of
weight if you can even imagine such a thing on
the effects. Yeah, I love the fixed version of weight.
It's a meter, I guess in a good way.
Speaker 3: I love that show and I love everything with Rich
and Wade as wowk Yeah, very good. Both those shows
are Those two shows alone are one hundred percent worth
the cost of being a VIP.
Speaker 2: Member and also not listening to this show with commercials
also nice perk. Also the website, the back issue if
you're a fan of wrestling history, back issues have got
it all. We're doing worship better you can. You can
go back to twenty nineteen and see what people were
saying about Aw's young roster at the time. A lot
of interesting stuff back there. But it's a great resource
to have when we're doing when Stephanie are doing a
worship better from like twenty years ago when I was
not watching. Actually I was watching three years ago, fourteen
years ago, when I wasn't watching whenever that chunk was.
But yeah, I'm struggling to wrap up the show here,
but I would like to thank Adam again for stepping
in to fill Stephanie's tiny shoes. I assume tiny shoes.
She seems like a girl with little feet.
Speaker 3: While yeah, I really appreciate you asking me to come
on again, and I have a great time every time
I get to get on here with you. So I
just want to thank everybody that listens. Like Josh said,
go vip. It's a great community and the chance to
post shows everything Wade does a great job of, you know,
giving good, unbiased analysis of the sport we love, and
you know, just keep listening and support it. Give this
podcast a like or a five star or whatever on
Apple or Spotify and all that stuff when you listen,
and thank you again.
Speaker 2: Josh for having me on anytime. And then we'll be
back with a new episode next week. Hopefully we will
get Stephanie back and we can get to our aw
pay per episode. Otherwise I might Adam is like my
my blanket when I don't want to do a podcast
alone and I don't want that. You don't want that,
nobody wants that. So hopefully we'll get stuffed back next week.
Otherwise he'll probably be Adam again, even though he doesn't
know it yet.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Luckily for me, I don't have much of a life,
so I'm always available.
Speaker 2: That's great. And on that note, I'm gonna say everybody,
get a life, Go have a life, have a good night,
have a good day, enjoy wrestling. You should be listening
to this on Monday, So watch Raw tonight or don't
watch it, but watch the post show anyway. You get
more out of the post show than the actual show
half the time. Anyways, all right, this is we're really
dragging this out. On the plus side, I can cut
all this out, but I'm not gonna. So everybody have
a great night and I will talk to everybody next
week on worship Better Pete, good night, everybody. There We go.
Speaker 1: Your time is valuable. Go VIP and listen to our
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