Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, this is Christina and Carmen, and this is
another episode of a Booky tell Us, the podcast for
all things spooky, true crime, hunter Places, but also sometimes
book Club. Yes, it's a book Club episode. Book Club,
book Club, book Club and yeah Bochica, it's our Bochika
book Club episode. I well, we'll get into it, well
into it. And as we say in every book Club episode,
the way they go, we start off with a little summarye.
We say who we thought we would cast, who we
would cast in a movie of this book. I don't
know if you have any for this book. You know,
it only comes to mind when I feel strongly about
a book. Okay, okay, yeah, same, I didn't think of anybody. Yeah, yeah,
So yeah we do that, not that summary, that's just
the back of the book. We do sometimes the cast,
and then we just get into a very long recap
of the book, and then at the end we do
the discussion questions and then a rating. So I will
have time steps. But basically that summary, that's the only
spoiler free and it's just from the book.
Speaker 2: The back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the back of the book. So and the
recap is a recap of the book. Yeah, thoughts and
started in. But we also get into our thoughts, questions,
discussion questions exactly, and that is how the book club
episodes go. If you want to quote join the book club,
it's not really joining. It's like you get the questions
when you send them out, and you can answer them
if you want, and then you get the notification of
what book we're reading next. That way, you finish it
by the time we finish it, and then you can
send us your thoughts or comments answers to the questions
if you want.
Speaker 2: And we love getting We do love getting them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I will say the only times we get a
lot of answers is usually when it's Isbarcia. Yeah, but
yeah that did get answers too though, yeah yeah, yeah,
So yeah, that's how these work. One day, maybe you know,
we'll try and do a live recording episode like online live.
That would be fun, yeah, and where people can actually discuss.
But again I stuck at like, I don't know how
to live straight. I can only do a podcast and
TikTok and one weakness, it is my one weakness. I
don't know how to do that. I don't know how
to where so I guess like people do it on zoom,
but you gotta pay for that, and yeah, I don't know.
That's the other weakness, you know. Yeah, so yeah, all
right the summary?
Speaker 2: Are you ready?
Speaker 1: I am, Okay, let's do this. So this book Club
episode is about Bochica by Carolina Flores Cerchiaro And here
goes the summary. In nineteen twenty three, Soacha Columbia La Casona,
an upland mansion approached above the legendary Santo. The Tekendama
Waterfall was once home to Antonia and her family, who
settle in despite their constant nightmares and the house's malevolent spirit.
The tragedy strikes when Antonia's mother takes a faddle fall
into Xanto, and her father, consumed by grief, attempts to
burn the house down, with Antonia st inside. Three years later,
haunted by disturbing dreams and cryptic journal entries from her
late mother, Antonia is drawn back to her childhood home
when it is converted into a luxurious hotel. As Antonia
confronts her fragmented memories and the dark history of the estate,
she wrestles with unsettling questions she can no longer ignore.
Was her mother's death by her own hands or was
it by someone else's. In a riveting quest for answers,
Antonia must navigate the shadows of La Casna as she
unearthed its darkest secret in this delicately told story of
how the past always finds us and how people can
be haunted just as surely as places can. Yes, thank
you for reading that. And I for one was very
excited for this book because it's takes place in a
place we have covered on the podcast. Yeah, that's one
reason we picked it. Yeah, it was pre Carmen. It
was just me and MJ back then. It was all
the way back in episode fifty three. It's titled Thickened
on My Falls and the Joelma Building a Whelma Building.
So yeah, if anyone wants to listen to the story
behind this haunted place, that episode is there. And yeah,
that's why I was very excited to check this book out.
And honestly, the setting is everything, yeah in this book.
So let's get and this is now recap moment. This
is a spoiler's galore. We're recapping the book. So or sorry,
No you didn't cast.
Speaker 2: Anyone, right, No, I didn't. I didn't know you neither, right.
Speaker 1: Now no, no one comes to mind. I'm sorry, just
blank faces.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: So, so we started off with Antonia teaching a class
of girls in the all girls Catholic school, and she's
talking about exorcisms for some reason, and I guess it
was part of the curriculum because yeah, straight up talking
about it. I remember learning about this in Catechism. Then
that would have caught my eye. Well, yeah, this is
Catholic school, so it's deeper than just Catechism, right, I
guess they really get into everything. Yeah, possessions included, possessions included.
And so you know, in the middle of this lecture,
I guess she starts thinking to herself, while these girls
are all doomed to a shitty life, yeah, because they
are girls in a Catholic school in its nineteen thirties.
Our girl, Antonia is a feminist. Yes, diehard feminists to
a fault and opskin. Well, maybe one can say she's
ahead of her time for sure, Yeah, because this is
the nineteen thirties, not you know, present time. Feminists have
always been around. No, no, no, that's true, that is
very true. But but she felt like not yet, oh
the whole No, okay, we'll get into it. The whole
book didn't feel like it was in nineteen thirties to me.
I'm sorry it didn't. It could have been said today
and I wouldn't have known the difference. So yeah, anyway,
so yeah, right after bat, she's like, man, these girls
are all doomed to a shitty fucking life.
Speaker 2: Poor them. Oooh hoo.
Speaker 1: And then one girl asks, mister Roubiano, how do we know?
How do we know when someone is possessed by the
The girl can't even finish the sentence, but by the devil,
And I was like, oh, you, poor girl, you can't
even say the devil.
Speaker 2: You fucking lose her.
Speaker 1: No, dumb bitch was a little word.
Speaker 2: She didn't actually say that, No.
Speaker 1: I'm exaggerating, but she is like, she can't even finish
the sentence because she's so afraid. So then Antonia gives
them the classic exorcism signs, but not before telling them
that most possessions are not real, which is true.
Speaker 2: It is true. She's right about that. She's right.
Speaker 1: They have to be medically ruled out. Those are Vatican rules.
And the girl asks again, like, but how do we know?
And she gives them more classic signs streaking, groaning, uttering,
disconnected or strange pattern of speech, having answers to questions
that they couldn't possibly know the answer to, and then
her mind draws off again.
Speaker 2: She does that a lot.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry she does.
Speaker 2: No, no, but yeah, like she really does, she really does.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So her mind trails to a time her dad
was apparently bound to a chair in a dark room
with Latin chants from a bad Juan. There's nuns around,
and there's like blood flowing flowing from.
Speaker 2: Her dad's eyes.
Speaker 1: I'm completely maulud about this, okay, because then my next
is like, this is never addressed again, not really, no
question mark. I yeah, I don't think so so that
we don't really know what is going on. I think
the only way that it's addressed is that she often
talks about how horrible her dad was grieving, how he felt,
how he wasn't himself anymore. So maybe but yeah, yeah, yeah,
so yeah, unless I just faced out and then her
dad went through an exorcism, but yeah, I don't recall
it being thoroughly addressed again, So I want to know
how long these girls were left waiting for answers While
she is in her head thinking about all this, like
how much time has passed? She's just there blankly staring
off at the distance.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or does time stop? And then.
Speaker 1: So eventually she returns to the rest of the signs
like a person being terrified of religious things like water,
the cross. And then she's interrupted not by her own
thoughts this time, but by La Madres Superior, Madre Asuncion,
and she walks in with her menacing footsteps, and she
dismisses everything. Antonia just told the girls, like, no, don't
listen to her, she's just an atheist. I don't think
she actually says that out loud, but I don't remember
why she said, Oh yeah, she just dismisses it, like, oh,
these things are very real, like don't listen to miss Rubiano.
And so we learned that Madre Asuncion's presence creates tension, anxiety,
and maybe even fear in Antonia, which dates back to
when she was a student at the same school she's
now teaching at, and then madresunzions the class. One of
the most common causes of being possessed is that one
has turned to the devil or to the occult, and
when they try to escape the demonic world. That's when
they get attacked and possessed and then they're killed, which
is like, yeah, that's an insane thing to say to
a group of girls. I mean, yeah, yeah, why can't
you just go with what Antonia I said, which would
have been the correct thing, but nothing like putting godly
fear into these youths exactly. And so Antonia remains fiedma
and she tells Madesuncion that she just wants the girls
to gain some perspective, because it's the nineteen thirties, for
fuck's sake.
Speaker 2: Not thout eighteen hundreds anymore.
Speaker 1: Then Madrea is like, no, go home, okay, go home.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Done.
Speaker 1: Before this, though, Antonia has again deep in her thoughts,
remembering that Madaresluncion almost beat one of her class I
mean it's said death.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah this I thought another visited, but it was her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was Madresoncion who beat another one of her
classmens when she was when okay, yeah, yet another thing
that's just like thrown in there and you're like okay,
yeah wow, like I mean I guess, yeah, we learned
Maddestenion sucks.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Madescion then also tells her something about how Antonia
is going around hiding behind the facade of skepticism, but
that she needs to remember what happened to her mother.
And then we vaguely learned something happened to her mom. Yeah,
and then Madison tells Antonia that she choosing not to
believe doesn't make evil disappear. It just leaves her weak,
unprepared and defenseless. And she says all that in front
of the girls, which is like, okay, like at least
pull her into office hours. I thought that they were
in her office at this point, but I guess not.
Oh you know what, maybe I think they were maybe
because and maybe that's when she told me solders to
go home. Yeah, it's in her Okay, this might be
in her office. Then wow, okay, not bad.
Speaker 2: I tried. I tried my best year wrong.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then we suddenly and abruptly go to the past.
In this well, I were run on Kendles. So it
was like my weirdest font. But it tells sized I
have like this dyslexic font. What I used the dyslexia
font because.
Speaker 2: It's fun to read.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw someone someone said that this font would
help you pay more attention if you have like ADHD.
It was like five, like two years ago that I
found it no problem reading. Well, I lose my spot
a lot. But it has like certain parts that are bold,
and then it's like, oh to like make you pay attention. Yeah,
like the the bottom part of the letters are like bold,
and then it's like this funny little font.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, yeah, uh.
Speaker 1: The part you're talking about that is I like I
tele size. It's uh, it's.
Speaker 2: The letter from her mom, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Then we go to the italicized version and it's like
it's the past. It's dated eight August nineteen twenty one.
It's a journal entry. It's clearly not Antonia's POV anymore,
but we don't know who it is yet.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The letters talking about how beautiful faults or is and
how much that the person writing this needed to own
this land, how secluded the places they finally feel at
home here, and then the journal entry mentions Ricardo said
something something like the workers are going to get this
all cleaned up. And so at that point when Ricardo's mentioned,
we were like, okay, that's probably her mom. Yeah, and
so that's who's writing the journal entry. And then Estella.
Her mom asks herself if Antonia will appreciate this place
as much as her gothic books, Like this just seems
so random, like, oh, she's gonna like this better than
her little, stupid books.
Speaker 2: It just seems running to me.
Speaker 1: But you know, and maybe she was really I guess
she was really obsessed with the books, so she was. Yeah,
she was all like, because this place is so much
better than her stupid gothic books. Basically is what she's saying,
and one day it will all be hers, which contains
a deeper meaning by the end of the book, But
this point in the book, we don't know how deep
this really is. Completely forgot about that when I read
later on right now it just seems like a mom
wanting to pass on her material belongings to a child. Yeah,
And then we're back in the nineteen thirties with Antonia.
She's walking to her house from her school job because
she was forced to leave an hour early, and she's
sneaking to herself as she's walking, how it wouldn't be
so bad to be fired, because after all, her former
childhood home is being turned into Colma's first selexury hotel.
And I'm like, Okay, that doesn't like flow together. I'm sorry, Like.
Speaker 2: Maybe what would relate to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like, oh, maybe it wouldn't be so bad
to be fired because my former home is.
Speaker 2: Like it's like, okay, there should have been something I
don't know, maybe.
Speaker 1: Like yes and yes and what does this mean for
you specifically, like can you live there?
Speaker 2: Or what? Right? Right?
Speaker 1: But I guess if she got fire, she would be
away from all of it. I don't know, I don't know,
I don't know, but yeah, we learned here that her
former childhood home is being turned into Columbia's first luxury hotel.
This hotel is had to have a ballroom, sixteen rooms, murals,
gold everywhere, crystal chandeliers, electricity telephones, three restaurants, a cellar,
and a balcony facing the five hundred foot waterfall. It
sounds really nice, it sounds beautiful. And then she's like,
the house was bugly and I fucking hated in. It
was the worst place ever, which we will hear again
and again and again how ugly the house was and
how it was the worst place ever. Stinky, it always
had a funky musty smell. Do it's tink it's dunk. Yes,
so we're gonna hear that again and again. She also
thinks about the depression her dad has been fighting since
her mom died four years ago in the house. Then
suddenly she thinks about the demonic possession and that the
girls in her class have no idea what real possession
looks like because I look like her dad grieving, which, yeah,
I could see that. I could see that making sense.
I still don't enjoy the way it was written, though.
It was very clunky writing. It wasn't smooth like you
said earlier. One thought didn't connect to the other. It
was just like saying it to say it because we
need to know it, instead of yes, I don't know,
just delivering it more. Yeah, creatively, I don't know, right, Yeah, exactly, Okay.
And so as she's walking, she feels like she's being
followed and watched, and then she hears the sound of
someone rushing towards her, like when someone walks fast, I guess.
She looks up and she sees a dark silhouette with
red eyes across the street, and she's like, I have
seen these eyes, but I don't remember where her house
where else, I don't know the street sounds too quiet,
and she's like, is this a dream?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: It's not real? And she's deep in her thoughts and
she's like, it couldn't be. She says it's out loud,
and then Emmi goes like, what the fuck are you
talking about?
Speaker 2: She does that a lot too, Yeah, she does. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He's like, Senorita, what the fuck? No, He's like, are
you okay? Are you okay?
Speaker 2: Which are you dumb?
Speaker 1: And then she's like, with there's someone at the door.
Is my dad outside? He's like, no, no, one's outside.
The weather sucks right now.
Speaker 2: Who in there goddamn mind would.
Speaker 1: Be outside right now? And that's basically what he sayss
but nicer, and then he asks her, very seriously, how
do you do it?
Speaker 2: All? Work? Take care of your father?
Speaker 1: This house, the business, what business? I'm not sure? The
other house there's a business, he said, the business question
mark or I put the question mark in my back.
Speaker 2: I don't know what business.
Speaker 1: I don't remember how business being mentioned. And this's the
business of the house being rented as a hotel. Maybe,
But then he also says the other house, which is
the hotel, So I don't know, but yeah, I don't know.
What business it would be, and he's like, you're doing
too much. She's like, I don't have a choice, and
he's like, there's always a choice, which I guess it
seems like an unnatural conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Also like Carmela
does a lot. She's there like lifelong made and so likes.
Speaker 2: Carmela be free.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's the one doing the most here.
Speaker 2: I don't know wants to be there, No, she does.
Speaker 1: She wants to be there, But I'm saying, I'm saying
that Antonia isn't doing it by herself.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Carmela does a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she has a superwoman Caramela by her side. So yeah. Anyway,
she finally goes inside the house. She thinks about how
whatever she saw left her all disarrayed, and how it
all started a year before her mom died and she
would wake up screaming, shrieking for help in the middle
of the night. Her parents would come and Carmela would
rush to her too, and they would then dismiss her fears,
all in their own ways, like oh, it's gonna be okay,
or it was nothing, aren't real, Yeah, all in their
own ways, but doing that, which, yeah, I get it. Again,
I would do the same thing. But no matter what
they said or her mom said, those supposed dreams did
not get better. And she thought that being away from
the former house, her former home, would make it all okay,
make it go away, but what she saw today proved
that that was not the case. And she has some
of her mama's journals, just the few that she was
able to get before the house was burned by her father,
and so she wants to find the rest of the
journal entries so she could get real answers like what
was she seeing and why did her mom die? And
that's basically exactly what the book says.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like.
Speaker 1: I always think I I don't recognize bad writing and
that I love everything I read.
Speaker 2: But that's not true.
Speaker 1: And this, like we said earlier, it was very clunky
written over explained, yeah, very what is that thing? It
was very telling instead of showing yes, I like to
be shown, Yeah, I don't mind, and.
Speaker 2: Dined you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So she's deep in her thoughts again, Carmela walks up
to her and tells her that her dad is ready
for the grand opening. Uh, and Antonia doesn't want it
to go because the deep depression that has engulfed him
since his wife died.
Speaker 2: That's another thing.
Speaker 1: She goes back and forth from my mom Estella and
his wife, and then I'm like, pick one.
Speaker 2: It took me a second to real.
Speaker 1: One because I keep forgetting yes, you forgetting with ye.
And then I was like, wait, is Carmela Stella? Oh no, sorry,
two different people my bad. And there's not even that
many characters in this book, but it's because of this,
Like she'll start thinking and she's like, oh, and then
his wife and then it's like, Okay, you could just
had my mom because you're thinking.
Speaker 2: You're the one thinking right now. Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: You're not maybe about your dad and your mom in
relation to each other. You're thinking of your mom in
relation to you. So why would you be It's like
if I was talking about my mom and then I'd
be like, instead of saying my mom, I'd be like
my dad's ex wife.
Speaker 2: Non exactly story, like.
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, I'm going to visit my dad's ex wife today.
What my mom?
Speaker 2: Your mom? I'm a mommy? Yeah.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that was I think one of my bigger
issues with the book. And I know, like Hey, I
can't write a book, That's why I'm not an author.
Speaker 2: But I read.
Speaker 1: I can't write for shit either. No, I can't write
for shit either, but but we do read. Yeah, but
you know, people I think. I mean, I I don't
usually even really listen to reviews.
Speaker 2: I'll just read whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think that it's fair. That's how it's written.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, I agree, And at the premise it had potential,
and it has potential, like you know, it picked up.
Speaker 2: For me towards the end too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it wasn't like a horrible read, just like
the first half. Yes, and I think, you know, if
she comes down with work in the future, I think
I will check it out because I would imagine that
she improved from this one based on like critiques. Yeah,
so I would for sure check it out. Like the
setting was cool, We'll get into all that. Yeah, and
we're recapping right now. I'm already trying to talk about that. Yeah,
X give me to the end, Like, okay, so, yeah,
his wife died and she thinks that being away from
the house is the answer. And Caramela tells Antonia that
he her dad will never forget the house. So you know,
we learn a little bit about her dad, check out
about having been a super successful architect and that he
built the mansion on Elsalto that was his ultimate project
for his wife. Her mom, and she continues to think
about how this is a terrible idea returning to the
house because I also that wasn't like said right away,
Like some of the things that I should have been
said weren't said, and then other things were over explained. Yeah,
so she thinks this is a terrible idea for them
to go to the ground opening of the former house
turned into hotel, and she's like, we need to forget
everything that happened in the house. We cannot return to it.
And her father holds all these good memories from the house,
while she was like, it was a terrible place. I
have not a single good memory from it. Befair she
was being haunted there, no, of course, although honestly, I
kind of wish that we would have like gotten povs
from her punting in the house. I think that would
have meant more. I think I would have understood how
haunting it was, because right now I'm like, all right, fine,
like you were scared in the house, Like yeah, so
you know, we learned about her first memory of the house,
and that is the only happy memory of the house.
They were sitting by the fireplace together and he's like,
this is our place, Nona. Sorry, I don't know why
I said it, like that, this is our place. Nona
and her parents have a bunch of gifts for her,
like all these fancy gothic books, and she's thinking all
this while Karmela is like waiting for a response. It
doesn't take her that long to think of these things.
Speaker 2: You know what.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm on the one thinking like it would take
me for ever to think these things, so there would
be a long awkward pause, but maybe not for her.
Maybe she's beef things, you know. So Carmela interrupts these
thoughts and tells her that her father's going to that
opening with or without her, And then her dad comes
out like he was summoned or something, and he's like, yeah,
I'm going, I'm going to that party. He's like, your
mom would have wanted us to go, and she's like, no, you.
Speaker 2: Don't know that.
Speaker 1: You'll never know that because she's dead, which is like
I was married to her, I think I would know. No, No,
he would never know she's dead. She's said she's ever
coming back. She's not, but she's not true, not making
fun of and no, I'm not just saying what she
would say. She says this a lot. She says variations
of this a lot. No.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: This goes on for a while, this back and forth
of like, no, you don't know, Oh I do know,
No you don't know, Oh I do know.
Speaker 2: A while.
Speaker 1: Eventually she agrees to go as long as Carmela goes.
And why are you dragging Carmela into this? She didn't
want to go either. She never gets a break. Yeah,
that's why I'm saying, doesn't when we get a day off. Ever, No, no,
And then there's another journal entry, and in this one
is Stella. Her mom is talking about how the house
lacks warmth despite its beauty, and that Antonia has locked
herself in her room and has been I'm increasingly lonely
in a hostile and that she doesn't understand why she
doesn't like the waterfall, and she's worried for Antonia. And
she ends the entry with saying that there's been increasing
visitors to the house, but it doesn't worry her because
she's a protector of this Latin now and so yeah,
that's that journal entry. We learned that Antonia is just
not having a good time there back in the nineteen thirties.
Now with Antonia, she's in the car with her dad, Carmela,
and Emiro the driver, and again she's thinking about how
horrible the house was and what it must look like
now with Dounia Perida's extravagant taste. And at first, I'm like,
why would it matter what her taste is if Leon
was the one who bought the house because Leone is
her son?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did it is?
Speaker 1: So does she buy it or he bought it for
I don't know, but she's the one who's apparently choosing
what the house looks like even though her son bought it. Yeah, which, okay, fine,
I guess you know. It was just kind of like
confusing at first because we didn't know exactly the situ
that we will learn at the end.
Speaker 2: Of the book.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Leone is Ricardo's bestie who bought or rented
the hotel. Guess they're renting it, they didn't buy it
something like that, right, Yeah, right, I think, Yeah, I
do love this line as she's like reminiscing about the
house and she says, quote, what a nice dist guy's
it had on It appeared innocent, defenseless, welcoming. Even that
was a fun line. I didn't enjoy that line. I
think the description of the house and the house as
almost like a life thing. That's partly what makes it
like Gothic, right. But it's like one of my favorite
parts of the book. And that's what I was saying
at the beginning. The setting us everything for this book,
and I think that if you go into it, not
we'll we'll get into it. We'll get into it at
the end. My dad recapping, we're recapping, Okay. So this
goes on for quite a bit about her thoughts on
the house and how she's nervous or scared to set
in house, set foot in the house again because she's
pushed these memories deep inside her and she doesn't really
remember a ton except not liking the house. Uh.
Speaker 2: They finally get to the hotel and right away.
Speaker 1: Carna is like, oh, the smell has gotten worse, but
they just don't notice it. Yeah, I'm like okay, And
once again she's deep in her thoughts thinking about how
her papa tried to burn the house down the night
her also, Okay, we don't get a clear picture of
how the house then last night on the house, how
that happened. But I get I understand Antonia doesn't have
her full memories. Yeah, and we don't get a clear
picture of the house. We get these tiny little snippets
and it's like, maybe like one third into it or
something that you realize she doesn't have all her memories
that she has a hard time remembering, like it's not
right away, so it's right and like you're like, what
the hell? Yeah, I think I don't actually have to
remember how soon. It's not right away, But she meant
she is like, I don't remember everything from you know that.
I think maybe, yeah, so we she is deeper thoughts
thinking about how her papa had tried to burn the
house down the night her mom died and her and
Carmela were still inside, and so you know, we learned
that little piece of it, and we get these little
snippets that night that her mom died.
Speaker 2: And then.
Speaker 1: Oh that's why she said, because I was like, why
is she thinking about this right now as they're entering
the party? Is what I'm wondering Half the time, I'm
like why is she bringing this up right now? But okay,
so she stopped Padre Juan and that's why she's thinking
about because is the one who did the exorcism. Yes, yes,
and that was the last time she stop Padre Juan
her father's exorcism. But again that's like all that's that's
the last we hear about that exorcism. And so now
she's out of her thoughts. She greets Pather Juan and
Don Pereira. Dona Pereira seems to be a decade younger
than when she last saw her.
Speaker 2: It's little weird.
Speaker 1: Which they mentioned quite a bit too, like it was
suspicious already. Really yeah, my bells were ringing, like okay,
why did she look younger?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so then Antonia tells padre Juan how surprised she
used to see him at a party, and he's like, well,
I'm here to bless the place, and then right away
Dona Peeda steps in and he's like.
Speaker 2: That's one of my closest friends. He'll always be welcome.
Speaker 1: Hereto, and I'm like all right, like calm down, calm down,
Like why are you coming with coming out Antonia with
this energy? Yeah, coming out it was weird. And then
Antonia's dad, Ricado, thanks Donia Peda for the invite. Antonia,
I know this fuck already, and then she she sees
a cutie across the room. Donia Perea introduces this cut
as Alexandro Sole, a reporter sent from Lanota to cover
this opening, the grand opening, and then Regardo was like, oh, Alejo,
what a pleasure, and Antonia's like, Alejo, why the fuck
do you know him? Like she's like so perplexed by this,
and I'm like, why are you so like perplexed by this?
Like your parents, I know, people you don't remember, especially
with your memory issues, Like she faces like a everything
is like a dramatic thought to her, but you know what,
nothing is that We're like, yeah, the more I think
about it, that's also part of the Gothic uh horror genre.
Or her not knowing and not trusting those around her. No,
her being like frantic and anxious, oh oh yeah yeah,
because you're right a little too worried about why her
dad knows him. Yeah. Ricardo tells her Handro that he
thought he was working at rad and then that name
suddenly brings back memories for Antonia. She remembers that her
mom collected the magazine and that that magazine fed her
fascination with Tekanama Falls, a fascination that killed her, and
we never reach into that thought. How did the magazine
do this? I don't think that comes up again. I
don't think so, but I guess just from like thinking
about it right now, it's like she read about it's
like a paranormal type magazine, and so we got her
more into that.
Speaker 2: I guess. I don't know, but we.
Speaker 1: Learned by the end of the book it's not even
the case. She was all she was destined to be
obsessed with this place. Yeah, it was written in the stars.
So at some point she gots out of her head
again and she tells son Peda that she can hardly
tell it was ever a house. And then she's thinking
to herself like, oh, I still see like our stuff here,
or like I can still see how it was a house,
right like. She's going on about this, and then Lona
Peda interrupts her thoughts again and she's like, well, that's
because it's no longer a house, silly, And she thinks
she's stay that yeah, it's a hotel. Yeah, and so yeah,
they walk around the hotel, the smell is apparently worse.
Donia Perreira asks Antonia what she thinks of the inscience,
and Antonia ignores the question because she's once again remembering
the past, something she will do.
Speaker 2: A lot more. She's always in her head that one.
Speaker 1: I'm just dying out like like people, I'm just picturing
people waiting for her to answer, and as someone who
like misses people because I'm like thinking about other things.
Speaker 2: Like I get it.
Speaker 1: But oh my god, this is why I would be
the worst character. He said, Hey yourself, I'm just kidding. Yeah, no, no,
I would be the worst because I'd be like what
But then in the middle of in the middle of
someone responding, I realize that I know what they said,
and then I answer while they're talking now while they're talking,
or I don't hear what they said, and I just
smile and nod and I never asked what they say
that again yeah, and like mm hmm yeah anyway, so yeah,
she ignores the yahid ask question, and she starts remembering
about how her mom looked at the waterfall every morning,
and how she would talk about how the place held
so much power, and I think it sounds so cool. Oh,
I honestly believe that it sounds very cool, although it
is very haunted according to legend and the people who've
been there. But yeah, this place holds so much power
and meaning to the Muiscap people. And then others came
to corrupt this sacred land. And she would talk about Bochica,
the heroin of the Muiscap people, and how they would
go to Tekanama Falls to worship her, thanking them, thanking
her for giving them life. And see, I feel like
that could have been written in a way where you
hear the story as she's telling it, but instead you're
hearing it like if I'm telling it to you, you
know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: So Antonia would be like, oh my gosh, she was
a woman, and then Estella would be like, she's whatever
you need her to be.
Speaker 2: But it's like, okay, she's a woman. Just say that.
Speaker 1: Since says she's like, she is whatever you need her
to be. And I guess it depends who you ask history.
After all, it's written by men. And then you think
it's gonna be over there, but she continues, but I
believe we can rewrite it. Nothing is ever set in
stone and it's like, Okay, yeah, I mean what you're
saying is right, but just say yeah, she's a goddess,
she's a woman, fuck.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: And then Antonia continues to think about how she cherished
these stories blah blah blah. And then somehow this ends
in her saying, God, Malla, what's her heroine? And I'm like, well, yeah,
she's the She's the queen. She is the person who
does everything for he. She keeps the family together and running. Yeah,
and we're back in the party now, out of her
head in the party. When she steps in the ballroom,
she feels unsettled, like she's being watched and like scratching
our her neck, which ooh, probably the scariest.
Speaker 2: Part in the book, honestly. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Suddenly the party's gone, replaced by the scent of fresh blood.
Goosebumps spread through her. Fear strikes her, immobilizing her, and
then there's these human like creatures covered in mud. She's
by the waterfall. Suddenly bloony fingers wrap around her neck
from behind. She feels pain, but bam, she's back on
the party. She runs back to the lobby, but then
ends up upstairs in a room with a bunch of
books and stuff, and it turns out this is most
of her mom's stuff. She grabs one of the books,
opens it, immediately recognizes it as her mom's handwriting. And
where we arrive at another journal entry, this one from
the twenty one of December in nineteen thirty one, and
in this one, Estella is talking about how she saw
a pair of red eyes staring back at her in
the dark, and somehow she had been locked in her
safe space, her sanctuary, her that room that was hers,
and that.
Speaker 2: She didn't feel safe.
Speaker 1: And then it ends the journal entry and now we're back,
you know, in the present with Antonia, and it's cut
off with the words Estella saying like that she needed
to run, I'm not going to die tonight. I think
it's like the last part of that journal entry. And
Antonia she reads this her, you know, her hands are shaking.
She wonders if there could be more hidden pages in
the house. But she returns to the party and there
were hundreds of questions running through her mind and she
felt like everyone was judging her and looking at her.
They probably were right, or maybe she's just exaggerating. I
feel like she's an exaggerator. Well, I think that she's
like a pariah in the town for her dad because
of what happened in all the drama that was involved. Yeah,
be plus her mom died. Her mom is dead, which
we hear going back. And then suddenly she's thinking about
how she dreamed of seeing Europe and instead she's stuck
taking care of her dad after this hotel deal or whatever,
and she's being haunted by her past and all the
what ifs. And then she finds and Carmela is like, bela,
where the hell have you been Locaton?
Speaker 2: The hell you been Loca.
Speaker 1: Exactly like that a direct quote from the book. And
she's like, we were supposed to look after your dad
and you disappeared for half an hour.
Speaker 2: Everything I get is on my shoulders. I'm doing my
fucking job.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And Antonette came back looking like aha mess, that's
why people were staring at her, honestly, yeah, not because
of everything else. And then Antonia tells her she was
dancing and enjoying herself, and Karamela doesn't believe it. She
looks like fucking ship. She lots scared as fuck eyes
like this, like when you sweating panting. Yeah, the color
had gone from her face. Yeah, Bali, then shit, yes, yes,
and then Garmeta tells her that she missed Donata's five
minute toast, which was an agonizing nightmare, and that doesn't.
Speaker 2: Seem that long.
Speaker 1: I'll rather be for real haunted. No, yeah, I'd rather
fallen off the waterfahone. So Garmela asks if she's enjoying
the party because she was just dancing, and then Antonia,
like a fucking weirdo, is likeugh, no, how can I
be enjoying myself? And everyone is scrutinizing me and telling
me I'm sorry for your last and it's like, well, bitch,
you just told Goarmeda you were dancing. I'm so tired
I can with her.
Speaker 2: She is the drama.
Speaker 1: She is the problem, yeah, because it's like if you
told me you were just dancing and then I'm like,
oh yeah, and then this happened, but yeah, so you're
having a good time, right, and then you're like.
Speaker 2: No, I'm always dead. She's dead.
Speaker 1: She's dead.
Speaker 2: Going back, and then everyone is asking me how I'm doing,
and then they're sorry for my loss and it's been.
Speaker 1: Three fucking years, right, and so then my response would
have been like, oh, you just said you were dancing.
But then Carmela says, the same people telling her this.
Now we're calling her Mama Bluca after she died. Yeah, okay,
old people aren't two faced, no. Yeah, And this rumor, yeah,
began because people started believing that El Castillochica was haunted,
which yeah, it was. It's always been haunted. Yeah, since
the since the time for the realization.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then Antonio was like, I never cared what people
said about my mom, but now she's full of questions,
and you know what, she'll have all these thoughts to herself,
and she she'll repeat her thoughts to like out loud,
to yeah, so we hear whatever, Yeah, yeah, like why
and how she diing?
Speaker 2: What really happened? Again? We have are we heard this?
Speaker 1: We're gonna hear it again and again and again.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So she tells Kama she needs to see the waterfall again,
and then she has a flashback to the night her
mom died. That something had distracted her from her parents
momentarily before her mom jumped, and she only knew that
she jumped because her dad says she jumped something that
she did not believe at all, and then her dad
would be like, you can't know that. She wouldn't jump.
She jumped like she did jump.
Speaker 2: And then Antonio would be like.
Speaker 1: No, she's suspicious of her dad. Yeah, but sorry, we
in short, she's suspicious of her dad. But we go
on for a few pages of this back and forth. Yeah,
and he's like, no one pushed her, And then she's like, push,
I never mentioned a push.
Speaker 2: Did you push her? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And this happens again like in the later on. Yeah,
it's just like how do you get from A to B? Yeah,
she's like going from A to Z without thinks king
of other things in between, especially because she read the
journal entry about her mom having been locked.
Speaker 2: In the room, but her mom writes something not.
Speaker 1: Locked me in the book, like or in my sanctuary
or whatever in my room she says something, but she
immediately jumps on her dad having done this. Then she's bob.
She's brought back to the present because Caramela is like hello, hello,
mm hmmm, yes I'm here, So she's like sorry. Carmela
is like, hey, we don't need to go to the waterfall.
Actually we need to go look for your dad, Like
we said we were going to watch him and I'm
doing it by myself. Yeah, and again, I need to
know how long people are there waiting for her to
like finish before they're like hey, but no, Antonia ignores
Carmela because she ignores everyone in this book.
Speaker 2: It's insane.
Speaker 1: So yeah, she just does whatever the what she wants.
She ignores Carmela and heads to the balcony, but she's
interrupted by the Muiska mural that had been painted by Estella,
her mom.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's a mural of.
Speaker 1: The waterfall and it's showing the Muiska men that are
being swallowed by the mist. But then they rise up
as one of the largest birds, the condor, a type
of vulture that lives in the Andes. And this is
the legend and we talked about it in our episode
of fifty three or fifty four. This is a depiction
of the legend of the Muiska people who chose to
die and escape colonization in this way because it was
better than colonization. Until they believe that they would jump
down the waterfall into freedom and once they jumped, they
would become birds. Butchka, the goddess would turn them into birds,
and it was like returning home, and it's because Bochica
had already saved them once from death at that waterfall.
The legend is that there was this giant flood and
the goddess made this patch of land that they could
all stand in while everything was being flooded. And now
the waterfall was there, and that piece of land is
what is still there from saving them, and they didn't
drown because she saved them. So she saved them once.
If they jump off this again, she's gonna save them again.
It's a beautiful legend. Yeah, sad and beautiful. And that's
what she was suspected by the painting of the depiction
of this legend. And so she's looking at this painting
and she's like, okay, we Chica, well you didn't give
my mom wings. Instead, she's dead.
Speaker 2: She's dead. She they were coming back, but she didn't
save her. Yeah. Well you know what I get. I get.
I think you people do this with God too. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course she's gonna do it. I just it's this,
like the tenth time we hear this sentence.
Speaker 2: That's why we're like low.
Speaker 1: KEI like maybe even her, because man, she's a little insufferable.
Speaker 2: She is the problem, she's the drama. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then like you would think that was enough
to convey that she is upset, but Chica or like, okay,
if you were a goddess, why is my mom dead? Right?
Like that was enough, but no, then she says, why
didn't Butchika save my mom if she was a devoted
worshiper And it's like, okay, that was kind of already said,
but then it's see what you're saying. Yeah, and then
she goes on to talk about how her mom was
such a devoted mom before they moved to the Casna,
and then she became more and more obsessed with the house,
and Dounia Preia encouraged this obsession, and that in the
year before her mom died, she hardly came out of
her room because she was so busy with the obsession
of the house, and she had mood swings.
Speaker 2: She would feel better.
Speaker 1: When they were away from the house for days at
a time, but then when they were back, she would
immediately return to being obsessed with the falls and the house.
And yeah, I mean at first you're like why, but
by the end, dude, this is very clear.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then Carmela's like Hello, are you listening to me?
And she wasn't because she never is. She's always ignoring
her and ignoring everyone. Yeah, and so Carmela is like,
stop running away from me like that, because I'm old
and I can't chase you anymore. Antonio tell Carmela that
she has to see the waterfalls again, and then they go.
When they're there, she wants again, thinks of her mom
the night her mom jumped deep her thoughts until Carmela
is like, all right, let's go. We've left your father
long enough. And then Antonia tells Carmela that she doesn't
think her mom phil or that anyone pushed her. But
she's like, well, if my dad was so close, why
didn't he stop her? And now they're back to the party.
Suddenly her dad is her number one suspect. When it's like, okay,
you just told Caramela you didn't they anyone pushed her?
And then she sees her dad and she's like, yeah,
he pushed her.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: She wonders if his love was so intoxicated that he
could have killed her, And I was like, why are
you wondering that? How did you arrive here? Take a
few steps back? She jumped into conclusions like her mom
jumped into a sound No she did, No, she did,
but that was crazy to say, I'm not thinking straight.
I'm sorry, I've been through it today.
Speaker 2: Okay she has.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so then I'm then I go to the bar
and asked for the strongest drink that the guy has.
The bartender and he's like, are you becoming of a
woman in this time? She should have never asked for this?
Speaker 2: How dare she? So He's like, are you alone?
Speaker 1: A senorita like yourself should never be drinking alone. It's
not recommended. And she's like, okay, well I'm not a
signorita bitch, I'm a basically, And yeah, of course that
anchored her.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Alejandro then walks up to her and they talk for
a bit. He's like to him, she's so rude. I'm like,
wach whatever, I guess she's been through it. That night
she was kind of like, looky haunted, So I probably
would have been rude to not gonna lie. Yeah, yeah,
you're right, I'm okay with this now. At first I'm like,
you gage, you know what a man? But no, now
I understand.
Speaker 2: Thank you for.
Speaker 1: Bring me back calling me in calling you in thank you,
you're welcome, and so yeah, he wants to interview her
and she doesn't want to. Obviously, he's like insisting and
she's like, go start it reeling. You should know that
when she leaves and she's standing in the courtyard and
she's like, we need to leave. But then she's like,
you know what, I'm not scared of your house leaving yet.
Then she sees a dead to hit a snake and
its moments really freaked out. But then she's like brought
back because she hears doing Yareida Cathleen at something with
Padaraquan mm hmm, and then doing Preda walks up to her,
tells her, your dad looks so much better since your mom,
and then Anthonia interrupts that and it's like, so she
killed herself, you know what? Like she she's kind of
funny in that way that people are like skirting around
her mom throwing herself into you know what. I mean,
she's not she's not, she's sure to be. She doesn't
have to be polite, she doesn't have to be a
woman about this, like yeah, yeah, and also she's not
sure exactly what happened either, but she's like tired of people.
Speaker 2: It's pity.
Speaker 1: And so she's all like, oh, you mean says she
killed herself, which.
Speaker 2: Is kind of funny.
Speaker 1: Yeah it is, but you know what, now that we're
talking here, I'm like, god, wait, wait, my fan, sometimes
you have to talk things through, you know what. Yeah,
and don never forgive me.
Speaker 2: I kind of get it.
Speaker 1: I kind of get it now. And then yeah, I
was like, well, it was a hard time for him.
She seemed fine that day. And then Antonia was like,
wait a minute, you saw.
Speaker 2: Her that day?
Speaker 1: What? And yeah, that is actually a relevation, that revelation
that I understand her reaction to, unlike her, like, why
do you know what A handle like this one I understand, Like, yeah,
this one is true?
Speaker 2: Like what excuse me?
Speaker 1: What? What her reaction is valid here? Yeah, And so
she's frazzled by this revelation and she tells that she
needs to leave. She excuses herself, and then she feels
like someone is following her. She's like hello, and then
she hears a loud.
Speaker 2: Leave mm hmmm.
Speaker 1: And she's scared, but she's not ready to face her
dad yet because she still thinks her dad pushed her
mom for no reason.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So she goes upstairs and set back to the party,
and she's in the same room that she had been
in before. She finds another journal, but this one is
in Chichiba, the language of the Muiska people, and it's
in her own handwriting, and she's like, wait a minute,
I don't, I don't. I didn't learn this, and that's trippy.
Things are getting weird and and you're she's like what,
And then you're like what. Both of us were like
what what? Yeah, And she quickly folds the paper and
puts in her pocket and then goes back to the party.
She and I were both wondering how long the party
had been going on. I was just gonna say, to
this party, feel like it lasted forever. I was like, damn,
we've already for real, it's been it's been that way, yeah, way.
And then she runs into her done and it's like,
all right, we need to go. We doesn't want to
because he never listens to her, just like she never
listens to anyone.
Speaker 2: That's where she gets it from.
Speaker 1: And then instead of thinking that's where I get her from,
she's like, and he never listened to my mom.
Speaker 2: Then she wonders again, saying things like that, That's how
I hurt them, That's how I heard them, and the
movie playing in my head A Little Face you never
listened to, Bro.
Speaker 1: And then Carmela is like, listen to Antonia and he's
like no. She begs him again, telling him that the house,
this place changes him and he's like.
Speaker 2: No, I'm staying.
Speaker 1: And she's that and then suddenly, like the tenth time,
she's like, we need to go and he's like no.
Speaker 2: She's like, well, well, I know mom was murdered. I
don't know where her dad musn't been like what where's
this coming from? Yeah.
Speaker 1: He was like you're chasing shadows and you're acting just
like your mom. And then he repeats that he's not leaving,
and then the argument's over. She's like fine, and then
she hears something say leave, leave, leave, but scary. That
wasn't scary, and then she's in her thoughts again. She
remembers the night that her mom died and when her
body was found, and Haldoya Parida made her look at
her mom's body, telling her she needed to do that
for closure, and I'm like okay, like yeah, paida fucking
where was it Ricarathold doing all this, like why wasn't
he like, let her do this in her own time?
Speaker 2: Like kill you know? Where do we seeing? I was like,
look at your mom, look at her body, look at
her look away, you need to look.
Speaker 1: And then suddenly, as she's thinking about this, she walks
into a dead body on the fourth floor. And I'm
not sure if I'm just like dumb or this part
wasn't super clear to me, Like, no, the dead body
is real.
Speaker 2: This is the one that they no, no, no.
Speaker 1: Her flashback and her fighting the body seems so intertwined
that I couldn't tell if it was still a flashback.
But that might just me be a me problem, honestly,
I think, so, okay, that's right, Tom. I've even read
it again when I was doing these notes, and I
was like, I don't really, it wasn't clear enough to me.
I thought she was still in the past and it
was her mom's body that she stumbles upon. But no,
it's a fresh body, fresh dead body, and so anyway,
she's back in the president. She sees the dead body,
and then her dad is also with the dead body,
and she thinks something's wrong with her dad. But and
then she realizes that this dead man is the mayor's
chief of staff, Carlos Lopez, and then she feels the
corpse grab her hand and say it begins again, and
she's like no, no, no, no, no to herself, and
then Alexandro is like, Antonia, the five oz is on
their way. They're gonna get your poppy. We need to
get him out of here, and she's like in shock,
still ignoring him.
Speaker 2: Again. She ignores a lot of people, but she's a
shock here. No, no, no, this time she's in shock.
This sameon Salad. He's like, this guy is dead. Antonia, awake.
We need to get out of here. Your puppy was
the only witness. It's not gonna look good. We need
to move him.
Speaker 1: And she continues to ignore him, and then she's like no,
I need to know what happened. And her dad's not
talking either, and then Leon gets there so fast with
the police and they take.
Speaker 2: Away her dad. She hears the word murder, murderer.
Speaker 1: Sorry, murderer again and again in her mind and I
think it's out louder. They gets turned in her mind
and then she's like, oh, yeah, my dad did it,
and I'm like, damn, girl, give him the benefit of
the doubt and she follows behind us a popo is
taking him away, and then Carmela when everyone at the
party sees them walking down the stairs and him being
taken away. If there wasn't rumors about them before, and
there was, they're even worse now exactly. Kamina was like
what happened? And Antonia ignores her again and then she
just repeats it begins again, and Karla has been like
what the fuck? Alejandro tells her that she needs to
go now, like go be with your dad, don't trust anyone,
And for some reason, all she can think of was
this in this moment, is that he still wants to
interview her. And I'm like, she's he's telling you to
leave and with your dad, and You're like, he wants
an interview, that's all he wants from me, his story.
I'm like, how did you get there?
Speaker 2: Again? Girl? Jump into the conclusions? Cat.
Speaker 1: It takes her three hours to get to the prison
and Bogata. She wants to see her dad, but the
police is like, nope, he can only see his lawyer.
And Leon was already there because he left with them.
He accompanied them when he was first arrested, and then
Leon tells Antonia he's going to take care of it,
and that her dad would not want her to see
him like this, and that a Signorita does not belong there,
which of course makes her so angry.
Speaker 2: She cannot hear this word.
Speaker 1: You cannot tell her anything mm hmm, because she's going
to be like no, and she's right though, she she
should be allowed to see her dad, like please. There's
a bunch of back and forth. She's finally able to
see her dad and the first thing he tells her
is I didn't kill that man. It was the house,
but she doesn't want to hear it. And then he's like,
we made a mistake. We should have never gone back there.
That hotel shouldn't even exist. The whole place used to
be burned down or there will be more deaths. We
should have never rented it out. We were never meant
to be there. And he's like, I should have listened
to you, and Antonia is like, oh no, no, I
should have listened to her. Yeah, he says I should
have listened to her, and Antonia is like, who, old man,
what are you talking about?
Speaker 2: Who is her?
Speaker 1: I feel like she she should yessed it was his Yeah,
I'm like, she should have known it was her mom. Yeah,
he's also going to be talking about right, That's what
I thought. But no. So then she demands the truth
from him, and he again blames the house and she's like,
what happened to my mom the night she passed away?
And then he was like she was sick, She felt
like she had no choice and she had to jump.
And then she's so over his hit. She's like, stop,
it told me the truth.
Speaker 2: You pushed her.
Speaker 1: And he's like no, He's like, goddamn it, God. And
then he tells her that he and Alejandro found the
chief of staff dead and she's like, wait, he was
with you. He didn't tell me anything, which, yeah, that
would be like, okay, why didn't he say anything? And
so it turns out that they had agreed to meet
on the fourth floor for an interview and they heard
voices and whispers behind a locked door. They knocked, and
when they were about to leave, they heard someone scream.
They split up to find another way. Actually she didn't
know this yet, but they had split up when the
scream happened to find another way into the room, and
in those five minutes is when the guy was found dead.
So Alejandro is not an actual witness because he had
walked away for those five minutes, and he says he
doesn't her dad.
Speaker 2: Now we're back here.
Speaker 1: Her dad doesn't remember anything after they heard the scream.
He just remembers waking up in her arms covered in blood.
But she's still not convinced. And then then we see
her at work the next day, the same day. I'm
not sure, honestly, it has to be the next day.
They work up party. No, no, no. The next day,
after she's at the jail, she goes to see him
in jail. She goes to jail right after leaving the party. Oh, okay,
so this is the next day.
Speaker 2: Ye got it.
Speaker 1: Okay, She's at work the next day, she's apologizing to
Madre for not meeting her weekly schedule, and Madre is like, well,
your dad was just arrested, And somehow Antonia is surprised
that she already knows. And I'm like, he was arrested
at the party to be the grand opening the hotel
Actuary Hotel. Yeah, like, how can this be surprising to you?
Plus bothered? Whatever was there, pa Juan? Yeah, And I
would assume just because he's a bather and she's a madre.
Speaker 2: They would know each other.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So she promises to go back to her regular
schedule next week and to make up all the missing work,
and madre A is like, actually stay home, and Antonia
is again shocked for some reason, and I'm like, I
think it's reasonable that she would expect you not to
come to work during all this.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: One, this is in the nineteen thirties. This is a
Catholic institution. Your dad was just arrested, whether he's guilty
or not.
Speaker 2: And she's like, well he's not guilty.
Speaker 1: And she's like okay, but the parents like, ye're concerned
and it makes sense to me, but it doesn't make
sense to Antonia. Yeah, she shook even though she was
dreaming about getting fired.
Speaker 2: It's you wanted, Like who do you want?
Speaker 1: Then that you wanted this right, so then mad because
Antonia is like basically like arguing so much. She's like, fine,
you can stay as long as you get your shit together,
get a good lawyer, and don't talk to the press,
and Antonia agrees. When she walks out of the school,
alone is there and offers her a ride home. She's like,
why are you really here? And he proposes to her
that they declare her dad mentally ill. What she doesn't
want to do because she doesn't think he's guilty, but
then she does, I don't know anyway. She goes back
and forth like she she's questioning yeah, and he's like, no,
but this is our only option because a mental institution
is safer than prison. She asks again if he thinks
her dad is guilty, and he dodges the answer like
a professional truly. He also tells her that Alejandro and
her dad were had been together, but they separated five
minutes before the guy died, and that's when everything happened,
and so or they found the guy dead, and so
he Alejandro is not a viable witness to her dad
being not guilty, And based on that, she's like, Okay,
my dad's innocent because he couldn't have done that much
damage to that body. He didn't have that time physical ability.
Speaker 2: To do that.
Speaker 1: No, because that guy was mingled, which yeah, final, at
least finally she arrived to this conclusion, A reasonable conclusion, yes, finally,
a factual conclusion, yeah, based in reality. And Leana is like,
it's our only option, think about it, but she yeah,
she doesn't want to understandable. Once she's back home, she
tells Caramela that she thinks Lane is hiding something, and
she calls Alexandro. He gave her his phone number when
they all this took place. Yeah, and so you know
he answers. So he tells her he will help her
in exchange for her story, and she agrees, and then
he reveals that he thinks they walked into some sort
of blood ritual, which I mean, yeah, maybe because the
guy was pretty messed up. And so then they make
a plan to return to the hotel because Antonia feels
like the answer is late in the journal entries from
her mom like this is somehow all connected and they're
in luck because that same night is the Blukas party, even.
Speaker 2: Though there was just a fucking death at the hotel.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but even she doesn't give a fuck, so I
will add, Okay, So I don't know, maybe it was
different because this was an elite circles, but how many
people were celebrating Halloween and Latin America. Oh yeah, I
was wondering about that too, because I know for a
fact that and In it wasn't celebrated. It's only recent. Yeah,
and then even when our own mother was a child
in Mexico, it was not celebrated at all.
Speaker 2: I don't think.
Speaker 1: I think in Mexico probably in the last what fifteen years,
maybe twenty nacts is my guest. I remember when we
were reading a Silver Nitrate. I forgot her the main
character's name, but she complains about or Monterra complained about
it started to see Halloween and Christmas decorations, yes.
Speaker 2: And that shit.
Speaker 1: And I think, isn't that said in the nineties or eighties, yes, nineties, yeah, yeah,
and that was Mexico. Yeah, gonna be us further further.
But I also understand that elite people were very wanting
to be very trune with very American American trends.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So that's why I'm giving it the benefit of the
down because I'm like, oh, yeah, that would make sense.
So if and this was only on a people, elite people,
so maybe it was a thing, because they even mentioned
Halloween by name, and I'm like, I don't know, but maybe.
And so they make a plan to go in disguise,
and at some point during all this, Carmela or after
she hins up, Carmela knocks in Antonia's room and asks
if she has seen Donia Perea's necklace because it was
uh it had like us Oh sorry, pfore this Antonia
was asleep and she had an okay, moving on for them.
Carmela knocks, she's always having nightmares. Also, yes, yeah, she
just assumes she's having a nightmare.
Speaker 2: One of the two.
Speaker 1: Those are her two stages, uh a sleeper dependent thoughts.
So Garmela knox and asks Antonia if she has seen
Dona Pareta's necklace because it was of a svetiva and
this is an evil entity that Bochika is supposed to
protect them from. And so when Carmela mentions the spetiva,
Antonia has a memory of her mom. So I know,
I can't forget in who Estella was because here she's
like and then I thought of Estella And why would
you say that if you're would you be in the
first name basis with your mom? Yeah, so she has
a memory of her mom. Her mom will selling her
that a svetiva can't come into their house or into
their family, that they're evil and they only come and
called upon, they need to be summoned, and only bad
people summon bad things. And she's like, why, Mom, why,
And then her mom tells her those who summon svetivas
think that it can do. Sevedia can give them joy,
good fortune, anything they wanted, but there's a price that pays.
This I thought of like making a deal with the
demon basically, like all those stories.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: And then Antonia realizes that Donia Perea did indeed have
a svetiva necklace. And then Karamela is like, well it
suits her because she's fucking evil. She's a buck a
bitch basically. And then Antonia asks Caramela to go see
her dad in jail because her and Alejandro are leaving.
And then Caramela is like, oh, speaking of Alejandro, so
good to see him after all these years. By the way,
you knew each other as kids until Alejandro's mom died.
And then she realizes or I don't even think she
remembers this her by herself yet either. She says Carmela
they have a plan to get her dad released, but
doesn't want to tell her. No, it's like theeless, you know,
the better type of situation. And then Carmela leaves the
room and Antonia stays here wondering if Tunjos the little
objects that made Caramela even bring up the vediva necklace
if douncos hold more than just power, because yeah, she
was holding one when Carala walked in and the guy
said that. And then there's another general entry. Basically her
mom is Madrina if Antonia has light in the darkness,
which just Lisa Antonia more confused. She's like, what do
you mean lay in the darkness? And she starts to
believe she was the one who brought or summoned the svetiva,
and she remembers the red eyes that have haunted her
forever now and again recently, and then there's a four
hour drive. They are at Ensanto de Tekedama and now
they're Lena and Manuelospina disguise in disguise, and while in
the party, you know, she's looking around. There's more descriptions,
but she's looking around and she sees a woman holding
a baby like doll. But then suddenly the eyes the
doll's eyes turn red, and then everything smells weird, and
she shears like.
Speaker 2: Oh, welcome home.
Speaker 1: Thing in her ear again ooh, and then she's like, oh, no,
I don't know that was. She's all frazzled. She thinks
of her mom's journals and how the journals said that
Antonia was losing control of herself. She's all frazzled, and
Alejandro steps away because she's like, girls, you.
Speaker 2: Need a drink.
Speaker 1: And then while they're they're like waiting, or she's waiting
for Alejandro, a woman is like, oh, Antonia, Hi, I
haven't seen it so long. Yeah, She's like, I don't
know who Antonia is, and she doesn't recognize the woman either,
so we don't never find out who this is.
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. It's almost as if this didn't need
to be in there. The cover was almost blown.
Speaker 1: I feel that we should know that their cover is
in danger anyway. Yeah, you know whatever, that's just me.
They talking for her. At some point she tells them
she can't give them her story because she doesn't remember
much at all. And I believe this is where we
really really realize she only has pieces of her memories
of her time in the house. And then she shows
him the note that's rat in Cheechba, which he can read,
and he tells her that it's an ancient prayer like
a summons, and then she asks how much he knows
about Spetibas, and he's like, well, they take hold of
a place or torment one person. They haunt you at
all times. You're not even safe from them when you're asleep. Uh.
And then she's like, oh my god, I summoned a spetiba,
which honestly is one of her more reasonable conclusions to
jump to. Yeah, and as they're talking, a woman randomly
recognizes Alejandro, and to get out of this woman talking
to him, he just pulls Antonia in for a kiss,
and Dona Perda happened to be around, but she didn't
see them when all this took place, and she's like,
oh my god, why did you kiss me?
Speaker 2: Fuck and whatever?
Speaker 1: They talk about stuff, blah blah blah blah blah. She
tells him that they have to get the rest of
the journal entries, that's where the answers are, which I
thought she had already told them about whatever. At some point,
they're dancing together, and then suddenly the room changes and
she sees the creature with a bloody scythe and blood everywhere,
and she lets out a little scream. Suddenly she's by
herself and she's running, and then Alejandro is there again,
and he's like, are you okay? Where are you going,
and she's like, I saw a thing and he didn't
see it. And she remembers that she used to see
things like that all the time in the house, and
she's deeper thoughts again, and then Alejandro is like, hey, hey,
earth to Antonia, and he tells her that Dona Perea
left the ballroom and that the plan or his plan
is on. He pulls out a knife from his pocket,
which is carved in moistcat carvings, and he's like, oh, yeah,
this is a copycat version of the murder weapon. By
the way, I took a picture and then I made
a duplicate and then there. I still I'm not sure
what his plan was with that. He does explain his plan, Yeah,
something about placing it somewhere they would pretend that this
is the murder work some ship.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So they're walking to the courtyard and then they see
a dozen people dressed in black with black candles around
them and black pointy hoods. Oh yeah, cold cold, and
they're chanting, of course, and I was like, oh, we
have a cold baby. Were you suspecting this that there
was going to be a cool Yeah? No, I was
just like either, it was a nice surprise yeah, I
like that it was just going to be a normal hunting. Oh,
but yeah, the cold brought in interest that we really needed.
So and so they're watching there was taking pictures. I'm
guessing I don't remember, but yeah he was. He has
to be right because they have evidence later. So yeah,
they see Don Pira of all people, chanting something in
Chiapa and the only word that Antonia recognizes is vetiva.
And then they see then swinging the blade which.
Speaker 2: Cut through someone's neck. Oh, she like beheaded someone.
Speaker 1: Then they watched the colt leave and they realized that
they were the ones who murdered that man, not her dad,
and now this cult is framing her dad. She wants
to go to the police, but he's like, no, we
need to stick to the plan. Then hear a scream
and they rush back inside, but everything looks normal and
Dona Pieda is not in the ballroom, but then they
see her with Badri Juan and she tells that they
need to leave before they're recognized by one of them,
and they go to her old room on the fourth floor,
and they just kill time in her old room because
they want Dona Peda to be gone from the party.
So they can sneak back down to look through the
mom's stuff to find more journal injuries, and so in
her room she finds her old dollhouse. She's looking through it,
she finds another journal entry. In this one, her mom
wrote that the gatherings are getting out of control and
there's a sense of distrust now and something about the
sh sheep escaping with the fox, and first she's like
too confused about this, and then she eventually realizes that
it's doing Pareda is the fox, but it takes her
a little too long to get there, and then at
some point they fall asleep, I don't know. The phone
rings and it's Carmela who tells her Leon stop by
looking for her and that she has a feeling Loan
is going to the hotel now because she wasn't at
her house. Antonia wasn't at our house, and Caramela wants
them to leave so that they're not found by Leon,
but she Antonio's Carmela, Nope, we can't leave, and she
hangs up and whatever she wants, very much like her
father earlier when he's like, I can't leave yet. Then
they make their way to the room with her mom
stuff on the way there. She hears people calling her,
but she keeps on walking, and then suddenly Alejandro is
nowhere near her. She tries to run, and she hears
her name three times, like no, no, no, no, no no,
and she's like, was that my mom's voice? And she's
like no, and then she's back in reality. Alejandro's shaking
her and asking her, hey, what happened. And then this
is a little bit of back and forth where she's
there and she's not there, and so she finally comes
to and they're taking the elevator down to her mom's sanctuary.
Speaker 2: Down there, it's basically untouched. It was left the same.
Speaker 1: They see tunkos, those little figures, and then Alexandra's like, well,
these aren't just figures. They have ritualistic purposes. And then
he tells her that he's not sure. He wasn't sure before,
but he is now after seeing these figures, and he
tells her, your mom was the leader of a cult
called Lasika's Debochica. They considered themselves protectors of Alisalto, and
it was their duty to protect it from those who corrupted,
who wanted to corrupt the land. And this place you
call your mom sanctuary was where they met, and his
own mom was a member of this cult before she
passed away, and that before her mom took over as
leader of the cult, it was led by her Antonia's
grandmother and Donia perieda together. But then when her grandmother
passed away, her mom was voided as the cult leader
instead of Donia Parida because she's younger, and her having
become the leader of the cult is the whole reason
her father built the mansion here in the first place,
and that Antonia herself is supposed to be next in line.
And Antonia is like, I don't want anything to do
with this place.
Speaker 2: I hated living here. It was a nightmare.
Speaker 1: And yeah, then they're grabbing books. She finds another entry
which makes her emotional. It says something about her I
didn't write this down.
Speaker 2: I don't know why. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: And then they find a picture of all the women
in the cult and all of them are dead except Dona.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: And then there's another deral entry, and in this one,
Estella wrote about losing all of her at my lass
and that she needs to figure out how to stop
it before it comes for her.
Speaker 2: She asks but Chica for help.
Speaker 1: In that journal entry, and Antonia realizes that the it
that her mom is referring to is the Vettiva summoned
by Don Pear, and that that's what pushed your mom,
the vettiva, and it also killed the rest of the
Chica and her and Lejandra decided they need to go
find evidence of this, and they head for the water
which is known as the La Mortos. I guess that's
where they put all the people they kill. I don't know,
I don't know.
Speaker 2: And as they're walking, she hears her name again, No Nona, Nona, Nona,
We'll come home, and.
Speaker 1: She tries to run again and Alejandro stops her and
she's like, something's here with us watching and he's like okay,
scared and they keep going and then suddenly Alejandro is
the one in the trans not for her. Well now
you know what it feels like, and she's begging him
to wake up, and she hears Nona, Nona, Nona again
and it's the Sveetiba.
Speaker 2: This part was actually like kind of creepy. It was.
Speaker 1: It's moving closer until it snatches her hand with this
clammy skin and it tells her that it's there for her,
and she's like no, no, don't get away, and then
it's pitch black. She wakes up and sees her mom,
I don't know where, and her mom tells her that
she Antonia has no idea what it means to be
together again, but that she can't stay. You know that
typical trope of like so when someone's like in the
middle of dying in a hospital and then the person
they see is like, you can't see you. You have
to choose if you're gonna stay or leave.
Speaker 2: But I want you to leave.
Speaker 1: You can't stay here. It's not your time yet that
Antonia again not listening. It's like, well, I'm not leaving
until you tell me what happened, But no, I get
it her. This is her chance to learn from her
own mom what was happening. So her mom told her
that evil played the land and that she was a
fool to think that she could protect it, and that
by the end, it felt so powerful for her to
be the leader of this culte that it was like intoxicating,
like she she had been overtaken by the power and
the power yeah instead of worrying about just protecting the land.
And then that Dounia Peda summoned the Svetiva and then
by then, by then it was too late, not even
Bochica could help them save them, and that she was
so happy when her and her dad got away, but
then they returned and she's like, what are you guys
doing here? But apparently this was Dona Verda's duane, that
she messed with Herta, messed with her dad's mind and
forced him.
Speaker 2: To reach into the house, and that she.
Speaker 1: Estella thought the only way to get rid of the
spativa was to die, but it didn't work, and then
Antonia's like, well, how can we get rid of it?
And it still I was like you can't. Only the
person who's somebody can get rid of it. And then
they tell each other goodbye, and Antonie comes to and
then she shakes Alejandro, begging him to wake up. He's
not waking up, and then he finally does, and then
he asked what happened and she's like, it was Salto
and Santo did all this. We need to get this
hotel shut down or people are going to keep dying.
And then they drag themselves to a house that's not
too far from Mensalto. A woman named Rosalia opens the door.
This is kind of where I was like, really all right,
but he had this This was his plan, because his
plan was to find evidence for his journalism or whatever,
for the story about the rich people being in the cult.
Speaker 2: That's right. He had been found. He knew there was
a cult, and he was already in.
Speaker 1: Communication with Rosalia about this, so she was like expecting them.
Speaker 2: You're right, you're right.
Speaker 1: She's another reporter. And Alexandra tells Antonia like, hey, we
can trust her. And then from there anton Carmela and
she's like, hey, we're okay. And while she's on the phone,
Alexandro updates Rosalia, who then agrees to report all of
this and drive them to the city, and then they
get back to Antonia's place. He stays here with Antonia
and he's like, don't worry, Rosalia, We'll make sure this
story gets out. I'm not leaving you alone ever again.
And then they kiss again, but this time like consensually. Yeah,
like they're both consenting.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: They walk inside the house and Mela's like, wow, you
guys look like shit, Well like you look like hell,
that's what she says, actually, uh, and then she's like
what happened?
Speaker 2: Tell me everything?
Speaker 1: And then she tells him alone seems scared when he
I'm looking for Antonia and they tell her everything. Later
a Metal drives them to like I said that the
newspaper that is gonna report this story and they're gonna
meet there with Rosalia. She gives back the pictures that
I Handro gave her and they realized that Pada Juan
is in the picture, so he's another member of the school.
And then Rosalia is like, yeah, we're really seeing a
special edition at the paper this very afternoon.
Speaker 2: This is going to be a big story.
Speaker 1: Then a Handro was like, all right, let's go to
the police, Antonia, you need to go see your dad.
But Antonia again doesn't listen, and she's like nope, I'm
going with you to the police. And then they're at
the police station and the police doesn't they don't want
to like listen, and then she threatens to go to
the press. But I'm like, okay, but the press is
already getting the story.
Speaker 2: I don't know what that that like. I don't know.
Speaker 1: The press already has a story to me in my
hand but whatever isn't Yeah, but she tells the police
like let me see my dad or I'm going to
the press. Oh, but maybe going to the press about
them not letting her see her dad. Okay, maybe, yeah,
I think that's what she meant. And then they signed
to Carlo's release and they're like okay, but he still
has to go to trial. And then police and detectives
head to the hotel and they went to her dad.
She understands that he was innocent. They tell him it
was all Dogna Pareida's doing and that everyone was in
her cold, including her son, like she just has a
lot of power in this town. And then they're back
at her house and she's looking through this book called
Evil in the Times of Buchika, which is very convenient
to have, and she's looking for clues and she is
reading this book and she sees like something handwritten in
someone else's hand ready, not her own, not her mom's.
She assumes is paida because the sentence sas the house
must stand, like this will only work if the house
is still there, and so she's like, well, I need
to destroy the house. The house else cannot stand anymore,
is what she realizes. And for some reason, she then
goes back to the Catholic school and she tells off madrequids.
Oh this is just her, her badass feminist journey journey.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: And then it's been a few days, her dad is free.
Now Dona Peda is on the run, but they haven't
found her. Then she gets a call from Lucia, Leon's wife,
who begs them for help because Leon has that been
himself since all this went down. And then she calls
it Lejandro and they go see Leon together, who's looking rough.
He's gaunt and emitiated. How do you say that word?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: And they ponder why he's in its condition, but they
imagine that it has to do with don Pieda and
just has that is happening? Leon is like, it's mother,
it's mother, and he doesn't know where she is, neither
does Lucia, and they're like, let's use the situation to
lure her back. And I'm not entirely sure how this takes,
how this happens. Lucia goes to make a phone call
to someone. I don't I wasn't paying attention anymore.
Speaker 2: Lucian.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Lucia makes a phone call, did you call Donia
Peda to come?
Speaker 2: But they don't know where Lona Pareda is. I thought that,
so she was calling. I don't know she's calling someone
to say Loan is not doing good. I think she's
calling Panina.
Speaker 1: But but they don't know where Loa Parida is. Isn't
that what she shows up though she does show up.
Speaker 2: Maybe it is, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe it is, yeah, because yeah, they're going to use
the situation to lure her back, and then bam, there
she is back some hours past whatever. And then there's
back and forth between them, and Tonia is like, yeah,
we know you killed all of La and all those
people at and then Dona is like, okay, and I
didn't do anything to Leon. It's the fetiva that's taking
hold of him because he's a weakling man her own son, ma'am,
that's your son. That's crazy. And then she's like and
if it hadn't been for you're meddling kids, everything would
have gone according to plan. And then the police get
there and Diana Pada is like shocked, and I'm like, really, Dona, data,
I don't think they were gonna like, yeah, have you arrested?
Speaker 2: I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 1: And yeah, she's like if it wasn't for you and
your dog or whatever.
Speaker 2: Like Scooby Doo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got that, okay, And then we have a
journal entry, and this time it's stated in nineteen thirty
six and it's Antonia who wrote it. She returned to
Octle to burn down the hotel and finally get rid
of the Svetiva and let the.
Speaker 2: Land just be the end. All right, we made it
to the end. I felt like I was never gonna
get there. Yeah, I well, yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Guess before get into the questions, is there anything you
want to say about the booker? We get into the questions. No,
let's answer the question, all right.
Speaker 2: Question one?
Speaker 1: Oh, before I add we sent these questions out and
then I made a story like it's only one. I
have like thoughts if they read this book, But most
of the replies I got were people waiting for the
episode to see if they should read it. I don't
know what people will decide after this.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, how did the setting and atmosphere the book affect
the mood and tone of the story. Did it create
a sense of danger, mystery, dread or unease?
Speaker 2: And I will say that yes, the.
Speaker 1: Atmosphere and the description of the house, the waterfall, it
was very moody. Yeah, very Gothic and it did definitely
set the tone, you know, to be like a dreadful feeling,
especially when she's actually being haunted. Right, But I like
the Yeah, the setting, atmosphere, descriptions.
Speaker 2: I agree.
Speaker 1: Like I said earlier, the setting was really everything holding
me together during this read. Yeah, yeah, it made me
want to visit the place too. I already wanted to
visit the place, but yes, yeah, I agree, And yeah,
the setting was everything. It is what gave the book
a sense of the moments, The moments of dread and
uneys that existed existed because of the house. So yeah, Okay,
the next one, how did the author generate suspense intentions? Wait,
let me say I guess before. These are generic book
club discussion questions. I could not think of my own
this time. How did the author generate suspense intention throughout
the book? How did they initially draw you in? What
techniques they used to keep you hooked and on edge?
I feel that it was again the house. The descriptions
of the house is really what drew me in. Again,
it is what created the tension, like those moments being
there and then like her remembering her past. I do
wish we we got to know what those moments in
the past that scared her so much because instead of
like really feeling it, it was more like and then
when I was a kid in that house, I saw
red eyes and my mom told me that though it
wasn't real, but it was. Yeah, I would do the same.
Speaker 2: And I also say that the.
Speaker 1: Little moments of the hauntings reiled me back in when
I was starting to you know, be like, oh my gosh,
shut up already about her class mostly and then you know,
yet when she would like when she was at the
party and then all of a sudden dragged out of
the party, like mentally, it seemed, and then she you
know whatever, she was haunted when she saw the glowing eyes,
when she saw the vitia, things like that, when they
were at the party, uh oh, when they were when
they went off to the waterfall, and then Leandro was.
Speaker 2: In a trance.
Speaker 1: Like those scenes of the scary moments kept me can
be hooked. And also the twist with the cult, yeah,
same same. What did you think of Antonia? Did she
make any decisions that you didn't agree with? Okay, at first,
I was like, I can't stand her. You were the
biggest hater I was the biggest hater. But then after
going through the recap discussing right now here irl with you,
I was like, you know what, No, I understand her more,
and I am a little more okay with her, because, yeah,
you know what, she was being haunted. Her mom didn't
die that long ago. Yeah, and already she because of
her trauma, is an anxious person, and yeah, she's gonna
overtheek things. Did I need to know that all the
things she was overthinking? No, I honestly didn't. We could
have used the less thinking, less thoughts of hers, but
she wasn't like horrible. Oh No, At first I thought
she was horrible, but I understand now, I understand her more,
and I'm like, you know what, No, she was who
she needed to be, and I personally don't. I can't
get behind her suddenly blaming her dad. Yeah, that was
something that I didn't agree with her because it's like
she was very hit and miss with it. And then
when she all of a sudden came to that conclusion,
it just seemed like out of nowhere. Yes, yes, So
that was the biggest thing. I didn't agree with her
on everything else. I'm like, no, it made sense even
though I got on my nervous at first. Yeah, were
you satisfied with the book's outcome or did you have
any questions or doubts left unanswered? It just kind of
felt like the ending is just like there because something
needed to happen, like it needed to be ended, and
that's like, all right, here you go.
Speaker 2: I guess they this journalist.
Speaker 1: Who I don't know where is here because she believes
adahndro On is going to help him. She's gonna believe
this news, and everybody just believed this news. Anda suddenly
agrees to come back for her weak leing of a
son that she apparently doesn't like, doesn't even like writing,
and she's going to come back for that, and everyone's
going to be ready to arrest her on the spot.
Speaker 2: So that was a little too I don't know, wrapped
up in a tidy bow. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then at the same time, though there was still
I'm like, all right, well, I I feel like I
would have wanted, like you said, to get more about
her being haunted as a child in that house, and
I would have wanted to get a little bit more
about the lore of uh Bochica, the Muiskas like I
feel like we got pieces here and there, like whenever
she was talking recollecting her conversations with her mom. But
I don't know, I think we could have had a
little bit more of that. Mm hmm. Yeah, I feel
like we could have done without all the Catholic school
madduncon suddenly beat my classmate to death almost scenes like
I don't know, yeah, at first I thought it was
gonna be like a religious trauma thing right when I
mentioned But then it doesn't seem connected to everything else,
because then I'm like that I thought, maybe, okay, well,
maybe you can kind of like learn about like, oh, well,
how did she.
Speaker 2: Handle the.
Speaker 1: Her mom being like obsessed and believing in the Muiskas
and their mythology and beliefs, and then how did she
like uh african't think of the world. How does she
mesh that with like her Catholic upbringing, But it's not
really brought up as a pointed yeah yeah. And then
also to me, like, I I think it's there so
that we get a real understanding of her feminism and
how it doesn't fall in line with the church. But
all the Senorita stuff that comes later does that for
us anyway? That's what I was necessary. Now, Like I
don't think it was necessary. Yeah, I just don't feel
that we needed in that at all. Yeah, And honestly
it would have been better without any of that it's not.
I think so too, because I started to get into
it once she was at the hotel, like yeah, and
then when she went back for the party, Yeah, yeah,
I almost wish it just took place all in the
full there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like they're arriving for the party and then she's.
Speaker 1: Like, I didn't even want to come, Like my dad,
Like I don't know why he suddenly wanted to come,
Like it could have just started with them arriving at
the party. I think so too, because yeah, she could
have gone like she did in her head and into
her memories with her mom.
Speaker 2: Then Yeah. Yeah, I honestly don't think we needed to
be out of that, yes at all.
Speaker 1: Also one more thought, because we haven't really talked about it,
but I was really into the description of all the
food that gott oh and that would bring her and
would prepare for her, especially the pairing of the hot
chocolate with the gesso, and what it seemed it was
like beat out there, like a different kind of bread.
I'm not even sure I pictured it as but that's
because of my Mexican centric Yes, but I want to
taste that.
Speaker 2: I want to eat that.
Speaker 1: Because I love cheese. You do love especially because I
think they said it was especially frescos as Mexicans eat.
I'm assuming our father started calling her. Oh yeah, I
forgot about that because I was obsessed. I would put
it on everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and then you would get all bloated.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think I cured myself of I don't
know if it works like that, but I don't have
any problems with cheese anymore.
Speaker 2: And as a kid I did.
Speaker 1: I can eat fresco, but I can't just depend well.
Speaker 2: I can eat as us just fine now.
Speaker 1: And but that back then, back then, I used to
get so blowd I remember we would be sitting there
and be like, I look pregnant.
Speaker 2: Our mom would force me to eat them. What are
they called?
Speaker 1: I don't remember dates, but I don't remember what they're called.
Speaker 2: It in Spanish.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because supposedly helped. I don't know, but yeahs. But
I couldn't stop eating because of what.
Speaker 2: It was worth it. I didn't join it. I was
like salivating I'm salamating rain, like you know what, I'm
gonna go get my gas, you know, not chocolate. Guess
what's going bun.
Speaker 1: Honestly, it sounds good because of the whole sweet savory thing. Okay, yeah, yeah,
because yeah, I mean I love like, you know what,
savory cheese, sweet savory cheese.
Speaker 2: I bought this cheese. I love charcouter. Also, what is
that TikTok? We saw? It's yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, I like making sure hi and about this
cheese that had cranber in it, and it was delicious
with the meat and the cracker and that sweet savory thing.
I delicious you yeah, yeah, okay, anyway, what did you
rate this book?
Speaker 2: I don't remember. Let me check.
Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you when I readed it while you're checking.
I actually don't remember what I put in storyograph. But
right now, personally I think a three out of five,
where I think that if you go into it knowing
that the writing is a little clunky and it's.
Speaker 2: M maybe her first book, I think it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think going and not expecting Mexican Gothic or
the da. If you think about it as its own piece,
you know the writing is not going to be amazingly done.
It has room for it's a quick read, it's a
short book, and so the the setting of the Waterfall,
I think, to me makes it like if you're interested
in something that takes place outside of Mexico, outside of
the US. It in Columbia, so if you're looking for that,
and it's just like it has its little spooky moments,
but it's not super scary. So I think if you
want something like that that's like a quick read, the
setting is phenomenal, it's not that scary, but also you
have to know that it's the writing is kind of clunky,
going to annoying those things, then yeah, I do recommend it. However,
if you absolutely can't stand the type of character that
we describe that Antonia is, or like the clunkiness, then
I don't recommend it. But to me, I don't regret
as much as I complained to Karmen about it, and
I have a complaint throughout this episode, I don't regret
reading it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think there was a lot of.
Speaker 1: Enjoyable aspects in the book. It just wasn't like a
love five out of five kind of book. Yeah, meant
that happened sometimes I don't, like you said, I don't
regret regret reading it. I would still recommend it, especially
for like someone who's looking like you said, for something
in Latin America that's you know, not commonly, not as
commonly written about somewhere like Mexico. We got local legend,
local myths, beautiful descriptions of a waterfall, and gothic setting.
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I read it three point twenty five. Oh wow,
you're reading was higher than mine. I think you were
complaining a lot more than me.
Speaker 2: I was. I was, but you read it.
Speaker 1: No, you started first, but I finished it first, and
I remember I was like sending you screen so long. Yeah,
but you know what I think, I think in my
head right now, I put it up to three because
I think I had it. Oh you did and previously,
but talking through Antonia, and like I said earlier, like
I am okay with her now as a character, and
so I think that's why I was like, okay, three three,
Like yeah, like we said, it's I cause you know,
like one out of five, it's like, oh no, I
absolutely wouldn't recommend it. But yeah, like we said, if
you're looking for those things and you're okay with knowing
like it's not gonna be elegant, but some parts will.
Speaker 2: It's just not gonna be all elegant. I do recommend it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, overall again, I don't regret reading it
three out of five for me. Yeah, you rated three
point twenty five. Well, wow, I lowered it then, and
then I had it higher.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: I thought i'd put like two point seventy five. Okay, okay,
well then three point twenty five. Well, let make sure
that's not my review instead of years, No, it could
be no, yeah, three point twenty five. It says year,
it's yours. Okay, all right, well that's yeah, that's what
I read it in. Well, we are moving on to
our next buck, which I already finished.
Speaker 2: Insane. I'm I'm like eighty percent through. I loved it again.
Speaker 1: Though we're obsessed with Silviaia. We like, you can't say
anything wrong.
Speaker 2: Anything about her. Anything she writes.
Speaker 1: I read, Yeah, and anything she writes is a five
out of five automatically. I don't care what anyone says.
That's always going to be faut of five out of
five for both of us. I think I have some
I have rated less, but oh most of the time
it is five out of five. Yeah, which one's Silver Nitry?
I think I already like rated at like three point
seventy five. Oh, I love Silver Nightrain.
Speaker 2: Anyway.
Speaker 1: Yes, so the Wwitching by Sylvia Moreno Garcia is our
next book, and I want to say, this is how
you tackle journal entries, differ and timelines beautifully. Oh yeah,
oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. So yeah, I'm
very excited for that one. I mean again, I already
am halfway through it. It's going to be in Pasco, Washington.
Speaker 2: Is that near you? No, sounds like three.
Speaker 1: Hours, but I considered that's kind of fun going.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought about it. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, Yes, that is our next book. We will
send out the email notifying everyone it is our next book,
and other than that, let us know your thoughts on
Bochica or we being too harsh on it.
Speaker 2: I don't think we were that.
Speaker 1: Bad, especially complained. I think we're being generous. You know what. Actually,
now that you mentioned that, I wanted to read some
of the low star reviews just to see when you're
read it right now, we thought about them. Yeah, okay, sure.
The average rating on StoryGraph for Bochka is three point
sixty average. Okay, okay, this is a one star.
Speaker 2: Let me see. Oh is it translated? No, no, never mind.
Speaker 1: The review says this story takes place on a plot
of land considered sacred to an indigenous Columbian culture, the Muiska,
the titular I hate that word titular. Pochka is a
Musican religious figure, but I don't recall a single indigenous character,
just a group of white women who appropriate their beliefs
the storyline. And we know these are elite, rich women,
so I think we can assume they are probably white Colombians.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, those storyline had the potential to explore important themes
of colonization, religious paralysm, and cultural appropriation, but never comes
close to touching any of that. I also wish i'd
read it in the original original Spanish, because while it
takes place in the nineteen thirties, a lot of the
dialogue it seems anachronistic to modern I'm not sure if
that was an issue of translation. Overall, this was a
fast paced, quick read horror in which all conflicts are
all resolved in the end. Even I felt almost a
little too cleanly wrapped up. And then they were like
edited to add JK. Just realized it was originally ready English,
so I can't even blame them dialogue translation. And then
there's another one that that was funny because they comment
on this super modern word that the main character uses for.
Speaker 2: Antonia.
Speaker 1: Antonia uses and I can't find it because I don't
even remember reading that word. Okay, this one star one
says a lot of vibes, very little plot. The plot
we did get was boring, and honestly, Mexican Gothic was
just a better version of this story. The idea was there,
but the execution was not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very.
Speaker 1: Bluntly put, but yeah, I agree with the idea being there,
but the execution not. Here's the other one that I
wanted to mention, and this one is a two point
seventy five try to say this book was a bit
of a disappointment. I'm absolutely feminist, but it's a pet
peeve of mine when authors show a feminist character by
just outright having them state the misogyny they experience like
they're explaining feminism one oh one. Maybe it's great for
people who really relate to female rage, but this way
of expressing it is not for me. I definitely appreciate
seeing more Latina authors out there blending their cultural especially
indigenous beliefs, into ideologies into a classic and ideologies into
a classic genre like gossip core. But the quality of
this book just isn't super great as a period piece.
Speaker 2: I feel the dialogue feels very modern.
Speaker 1: Parentheses she clapped back, hello, and I don't remember reading that.
Speaker 2: She cloud back. I don't remember reading that either.
Speaker 1: And sometimes characters say things that make no sense in
the context, which I think that was accurate.
Speaker 2: I think we did stress that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, somebody else mentioned the cloud back thing.
An there's two point seventy five uh huh, and I
do not remember reading that. That's the thing you get
when you're reading well, say, for example, who is literally
like a PhD historian, Like you're gonna feel like you're
there when she's writing, and even CB Mono Garcia deeply
deeply researches her books where you feel like they're taking
place in the time they say they are. Nothing feels
out of place. And that was another like, like I
was saying this, you could change the year to now
and it wouldn't make that much of a difference. Yeah,
you might as well have put it more modern, I think.
Speaker 2: Right, you could have like it could have been fiction.
Speaker 1: The history could have been fiction where because the hotel
was bought and created around that time, and you could
have just changed and you're already like this is a
fiction book. You could have just been like, oh, suddenly
someone built this in twenty twenty five, yeah, or like
twenty fourteen, like even have been a little more believable.
So yeah, I understand those complaints. Yeah, I think we're
we're being a little generous just because we're also latinas
and we yeah, and we were familiar with the Hunted
Place already. Yeah, and so yeah, that's like that's why
we said, if you're go into it knowing and not
expecting too much, yeah, it's And I did go into
it like that, not expecting much because I had seen
somebody else make a TikTok. I had a video about it,
and I said to you and they're like, this is
very met and I was like, Okay, let me lower
my expectations.
Speaker 2: But you shouldn't have to do, you know, right right?
So yeah, no, I agree, I do agree.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, yeah, okay, Well we announced our next book.
We already started reading it, which is rare whenever we
would do these book club I already finished it. Yeah
I know you or had to finished it, but I'm
still written.
Speaker 2: Befair. I went on vacation.
Speaker 1: You went on a reading retreat. Well no, but I
read them on my vacation when oh, that's on your
other vacation. Yeah yeah, yeah, all right, well yeah, give
us your thoughts on the book if you read it,
even if you readly like five months from now, I
still want to know we think about it same and yeah.
Other than that, today is oh sorry. Reminder November first,
twenty twenty five, you can catch us in Yakama, Washington
at our event, The Kukui is going to get you
a bilingual, Ish, cultural, rooted paranoramble night of storytelling, sustos
and spirits, blending spooky stories, folklore, audience interaction and immerse
activities to waken your spooky side. And we're going to
be there. And then also Jonathan Perez from Latinos Against
Spooky Shit what a fun you know account honestly a
fun creator. And there's also going to be in a
spooky mercado local Tarot oracle card readers and it's November
first starts at seven pm, doors open at six thirty.
Tickets are already on sale. Links in the show notes. Again,
it is in Yakama, and yeah, we're very excited to
be there and we can wait to see whoever shows up.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be fun. So yeah.
Speaker 1: Other than that, Staybookie and we'll get to everyone next time.
By as book Tells is hosted by Christina and Carmen,
produced and edited by Christina, researched by Christina Carmen and
with the help of Don shout out with Don. If
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