1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,520 Speaker 1: I want you to close your eyes for a second. 2 00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:03,839 Picture of the moon. It's just hanging there in the 3 00:00:03,919 --> 00:00:08,080 night sky. You know, silver serene, the same moon humans 4 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,480 have looked at for thousands of years. Now, imagine a 5 00:00:11,519 --> 00:00:15,320 flash of light on its surface and then this massive, 6 00:00:15,839 --> 00:00:20,280 silent mushroom cloud just blooming across the craters. 7 00:00:20,839 --> 00:00:24,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a terrifying image. It feels like the opening 8 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,679 scene of some dystopian sci fi movie. 9 00:00:26,719 --> 00:00:29,079 Speaker 1: It does, right. But here's the thing. It wasn't a 10 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:31,679 movie script. It was a budget item. It was a 11 00:00:31,679 --> 00:00:34,240 real plan on a real desk in the Pentagon. 12 00:00:34,399 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 2: It actually was. 13 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:39,119 Speaker 1: Or how about this one. Imagine a robot, a tactical 14 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,520 machine of war, trundling across a battlefield. It doesn't run 15 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,439 on gas, it doesn't plug into a wall. It fuels 16 00:00:45,439 --> 00:00:47,920 itself well by eating. 17 00:00:47,719 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 2: The biomass engine. That one always gives me the cruise. 18 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: We see it eats plants. But in a war zone, 19 00:00:52,399 --> 00:00:54,000 organic matter is a pretty loose term. 20 00:00:54,119 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 2: It certainly is a very loose term. 21 00:00:56,159 --> 00:00:58,119 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. I am your host, and today 22 00:00:58,479 --> 00:00:59,719 my brain is already hurting. 23 00:01:00,039 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 2: I'm here to try to make some sense of the headache. 24 00:01:02,399 --> 00:01:03,280 Or at least sharing it. 25 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: We are doing something a little different today. Usually we 26 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:08,040 take one topic and sort of swim around the edges. 27 00:01:08,799 --> 00:01:11,799 Today we are pulling at the loose threads of the 28 00:01:11,799 --> 00:01:14,959 world's most secretive organization. We are looking at the Pentagon. 29 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,719 And when you pull these threads, what unravels is honestly, 30 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:19,640 it's just insane. 31 00:01:19,799 --> 00:01:22,439 Speaker 2: It really is. We're looking at a massive collection of 32 00:01:22,799 --> 00:01:27,000 you know, declassified documents, historical reports, project files, and what 33 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,280 we're finding isn't just dry military strategy. 34 00:01:29,879 --> 00:01:32,239 Speaker 1: No, not at all. We are finding bat bombs, we 35 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,319 are finding psychic spies, we are finding false flag operations 36 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,439 that would make a conspiracy theorist blush. So welcome to 37 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:41,239 thrilling Threads. 38 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:43,359 Speaker 2: Glad to be here, and you're absolutely right. The sheer 39 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,680 volume of weird in these files is staggering. 40 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: We have fifty count them, fifty insane secrets to get through. 41 00:01:50,159 --> 00:01:51,879 And the question I want to ask right at the 42 00:01:51,879 --> 00:01:54,480 top is what happens when you give a group of 43 00:01:54,519 --> 00:01:58,799 people like unlimited money, zero oversight, and a level of 44 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,879 paranoia that borders on clinical psychosis. 45 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:03,959 Speaker 2: You get the history of the US Department of Defense. 46 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:08,479 Speaker 1: Apparently exactly, we are just reading history today, we're kind 47 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:12,560 of auditing the sanity of the military industrial complex. 48 00:02:12,199 --> 00:02:13,439 Speaker 2: Which is a tall order. 49 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 1: So let's start at the beginning. Ground zero. The building itself, 50 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:19,080 the Pentagon. 51 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 2: The very symbol of American military power. 52 00:02:21,759 --> 00:02:23,439 Speaker 1: You see it in movies, you see it on the news. 53 00:02:23,479 --> 00:02:26,319 It looks like this eternal fortress, like it's been there 54 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:28,360 since the dawn of time and will be there until 55 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,680 the sun explodes. But looking at the origin story, it 56 00:02:31,759 --> 00:02:34,280 seems like it was just slapped together in a panic. 57 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 2: Panic might be the strong word, but rush is definitely accurate. 58 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,159 You have to understand the context. It's the early nineteen forties. 59 00:02:41,759 --> 00:02:45,319 Hitler is marching across Europe. The War Department in Washington, 60 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,919 DC is frankly a mess. Miss how they're scattered across 61 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,759 seventeen different buildings. They have people working in temporary shacks 62 00:02:52,759 --> 00:02:56,039 on the National Mall. It was completely inefficient and you know, 63 00:02:56,319 --> 00:02:58,039 dangerous from a security standpoint. 64 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: So they needed a home base, central nervous system. Enter 65 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,199 bring your general Brehon B. Somerville. Right. 66 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 2: Somerville was a man who, from all accounts, did not 67 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:09,639 like the word no, and he really didn't like the 68 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,680 word weight. He wanted a massive complex to house the 69 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,039 entire brain of the US military, and the story goes 70 00:03:16,319 --> 00:03:19,120 he essentially sketched the idea out over a weekend, a 71 00:03:19,199 --> 00:03:23,039 weekend for the penticast basic concept. Yeah, that's how fast 72 00:03:23,039 --> 00:03:23,439 he moved. 73 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: And the timeline is just it's spooky. I know we 74 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,479 don't do neurology here, but when did they actually break 75 00:03:28,479 --> 00:03:29,039 ground on it? 76 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 2: September eleventh, nineteen forty one. 77 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,599 Speaker 1: September eleventh, exactly sixty years to the day before the 78 00:03:34,599 --> 00:03:35,439 building was attacked. 79 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:37,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, it sends a shiver down your spine. It's an 80 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:39,439 unbelievable coincidence. 81 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:39,759 Speaker 1: Wow. 82 00:03:40,199 --> 00:03:42,639 Speaker 2: But back in nineteen forty one, nobody was thinking about 83 00:03:42,639 --> 00:03:45,039 two thousand and one. They were thinking about budget approvals. 84 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,280 And this brings us to the first major secret about 85 00:03:48,319 --> 00:03:51,479 the building itself. It is built on a lie. A lie, 86 00:03:51,599 --> 00:03:55,159 what kind of lie, A massive bureaucratic lie. See, Congress 87 00:03:55,159 --> 00:03:58,400 didn't want to pay for a fortress. The prevailing thought was, Okay, 88 00:03:58,439 --> 00:04:00,759 we need this for the war, but once we the Nazis, 89 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:02,520 the military will shrink back down. 90 00:04:02,759 --> 00:04:05,199 Speaker 1: So it was a wartime expense exactly. 91 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 2: So Somerville and the planners pitched the Pentagon as a 92 00:04:08,639 --> 00:04:10,479 temporary structure temporary. 93 00:04:10,719 --> 00:04:13,879 Speaker 1: They poured forty three thousand tons of steel into a 94 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:14,919 temporary building. 95 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,399 Speaker 2: That was the sales pitch. They literally argued that after 96 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,079 World War Two the building would be converted, maybe it 97 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:25,680 would become a massive records warehouse, maybe a hospital, maybe 98 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,120 just office space for the Veterans administration. 99 00:04:28,639 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: That is the ultimate foot in the door technique. Honey, 100 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:33,120 let's just buy the ferrari. 101 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,519 Speaker 2: We could use it as a grocery Keetter later precisely, 102 00:04:35,519 --> 00:04:39,319 don't worry about the cost. It's multipurpose. And because they 103 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,560 were rushing, because they were selling this temporary lie, they 104 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,319 weren't exactly careful about where they put it. They didn't 105 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:47,399 choose an empty field. 106 00:04:47,639 --> 00:04:49,399 Speaker 1: No, I was looking at the maps in the file. 107 00:04:49,639 --> 00:04:52,800 This wasn't a swamp. This was a place called East Arlington, 108 00:04:53,319 --> 00:04:56,879 and it had neighborhoods with these incredible names, Queen City 109 00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:59,360 and the one that sticks at Hell's Bottom. 110 00:04:59,399 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 2: Hell's Bottom gets a lot of attention, and you can 111 00:05:01,519 --> 00:05:05,959 see why the name implies it was this dangerous, sleazy slum, 112 00:05:06,399 --> 00:05:09,439 and the government certainly used that narrative to justify it. 113 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 1: But that wasn't the reality. 114 00:05:10,879 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 2: Not really. If you look at the records, These were 115 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:17,199 thriving communities. They were populated largely by the descendants of 116 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:18,079 freed slaves. 117 00:05:18,399 --> 00:05:20,639 Speaker 1: Right it says here one hundred and fifty families were 118 00:05:20,639 --> 00:05:25,839 living there. There were churches, pawn shops, homes, a whole community. 119 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,439 Speaker 2: A whole community. And because the War Department needed its 120 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,839 temporary office building right now, they just used eminent domain 121 00:05:31,959 --> 00:05:32,839 to wipe it all away. 122 00:05:33,199 --> 00:05:36,759 Speaker 1: So they displaced an entire historic black community for a 123 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,160 building they claimed they might not even keep. 124 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,759 Speaker 2: That's the tragic irony of its origin and the construction itself. 125 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,160 Oh wow. It was managed by a man named Leslie Groves. 126 00:05:46,639 --> 00:05:48,160 Lieutenant General Lisley Groves. 127 00:05:48,199 --> 00:05:50,199 Speaker 1: Why do I know that name? That name is so familiar. 128 00:05:50,439 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 2: You know him because right after he finished building the Pentagon, 129 00:05:53,879 --> 00:05:55,959 he was put in charge of the Manhattan. 130 00:05:55,439 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: Project, the atomic bomb guy, of course. 131 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 2: The very same. So you have the same man overseeing 132 00:06:00,079 --> 00:06:03,240 the construction of the military's brain and then immediately moving 133 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,639 on to build the military's ultimate fist. 134 00:06:06,319 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 1: That's quite a resume. 135 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 2: And interestingly, Groves later joked that building the Pentagon was 136 00:06:11,079 --> 00:06:13,600 actually more stressful for him than building the bomb. 137 00:06:13,879 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: I can almost believe it. The stats in here are 138 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,720 just mind boggling. Six hundred and eighty thousand tons of 139 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:24,439 sand and gravel. They had fourteen thousand tradesmen working around 140 00:06:24,439 --> 00:06:24,800 the clock. 141 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,079 Speaker 2: They built the largest office building in the world in 142 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,879 just sixteen months. It was a mobilization of industry that 143 00:06:30,959 --> 00:06:32,920 really rivaled the war effort itself. 144 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: But here we are, over eighty years later, the temporary 145 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,399 building is still standing, and apparently it's still a black 146 00:06:39,439 --> 00:06:42,160 hole for money. I was reading the audit section of 147 00:06:42,199 --> 00:06:44,319 these files and I actually laughed out loud, not a 148 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,160 happy laugh of this is painful laugh. 149 00:06:46,319 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 2: The financial black hole of the DoD. It's legendary. 150 00:06:49,759 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: The file says that between twenty seventeen and twenty twenty four, 151 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,480 the Department of Defense confirmed fraud totaling ten point eight 152 00:06:56,639 --> 00:06:57,519 billion dollars. 153 00:06:57,639 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 2: That is billion with a B. It's a number so 154 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:01,279 big it's hard to even comprehend. 155 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 1: It's an incomprehensible amount of money. If you lost ten 156 00:07:03,759 --> 00:07:07,240 pointy billion dollars, you could fund NASA for half a year, 157 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,519 you could end homelessness in major cities. And the Pentagon 158 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:12,120 just lost it to fraud. 159 00:07:12,199 --> 00:07:14,519 Speaker 2: Well, it's a mix of things. It's bad actors for sure, 160 00:07:14,879 --> 00:07:17,759 but it's also just terrible accounting and a system so 161 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,720 complex and so vast that nobody actually knows where every 162 00:07:20,759 --> 00:07:21,639 single dollar goes. 163 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:27,199 Speaker 1: And sometimes it's not even fraud, it's just catastrophic stupidity. 164 00:07:27,199 --> 00:07:29,959 Oh yeah, we have to talk about the camouflage. This 165 00:07:30,079 --> 00:07:33,120 is my absolute favorite example of just having money to burn. 166 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 2: The Afghan National Army uniform scandal a classic. 167 00:07:37,879 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: So set the scene for us. 168 00:07:39,879 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 2: We are in Afghanistan, right, So the landscape of Afghanistan 169 00:07:43,759 --> 00:07:47,199 is varied, but a huge portion of the fighting happens 170 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:53,399 in desert, rocky terrain. We're talking browns, tans, beige with 171 00:07:53,519 --> 00:07:56,639 tones exactly. So in twenty seventeen it comes out that 172 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:00,000 the Pentagon spent twenty eight million dollars designing and manufacture 173 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,360 during camouflage uniforms for the Afghan Army, and the pattern 174 00:08:03,399 --> 00:08:06,439 they chose was a lush, dark forest. 175 00:08:06,079 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: Green, forest green for the desert. 176 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 2: It was a pattern designed for a dense woodland environment, 177 00:08:11,639 --> 00:08:14,399 like you know, a temperate forest in North America or Europe. 178 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:16,759 Speaker 1: So essentially, we spend twenty eight million dollars to turn 179 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,560 our allies into glowing green targets against the sand. 180 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,639 Speaker 2: Effectively, yes, it provided negative concealment. It actually made them 181 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:23,399 easier to see. 182 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:25,879 Speaker 1: Why was there a scientific study? Did they test it? 183 00:08:25,959 --> 00:08:26,680 What was the logic? 184 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 2: There was no logic. That's the best part. The report 185 00:08:30,279 --> 00:08:33,120 found that the Afghan Minister of Defense at the time 186 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,679 was looking through a catalog, saw the forest green pattern 187 00:08:36,759 --> 00:08:38,840 and just liked it. He thought it looked cool. 188 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,639 Speaker 1: Marshall, you're kidding. He picked it like he was picking 189 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:42,399 out wallpaper. 190 00:08:42,519 --> 00:08:45,799 Speaker 2: And apparently nobody at the Pentagon said, sir, that's for 191 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,120 a forest and you're in a sandbox. They just signed 192 00:08:49,159 --> 00:08:49,559 the check. 193 00:08:49,759 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: Unbelievable. 194 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 2: There was a great quote from the Special Inspector General 195 00:08:53,519 --> 00:08:57,360 involved in the report. He asked, and I'm paraphrasing, what 196 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,759 if the Minister of Defense liked pink, would we have 197 00:08:59,799 --> 00:09:01,360 seen sent them pink uniforms. 198 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: That's a valid question. It really highlights that while the 199 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:08,000 Pentagon is a place of high strategy and very serious people, 200 00:09:08,759 --> 00:09:12,279 it is also a massive bureaucracy. And like any bureaucracy, 201 00:09:12,279 --> 00:09:14,960 if the paperwork assigned, common sense sometimes just goes. 202 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 2: Right out the window, and twenty eight million dollars goes 203 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:17,519 with it. 204 00:09:17,639 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: Speaking of things going out the window, let's move to 205 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,600 thread too. If the building was built on Hell's bottom. 206 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:25,840 Some of the ideas that came out of it seemed 207 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,600 like they were conceived in a fever dream. I call 208 00:09:28,639 --> 00:09:30,720 this the Looney Tunes era of warfare. 209 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,639 Speaker 2: The Animals and Nature files. This is where you see 210 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,600 the desperation of World War two driving people to try 211 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:38,000 literally anything. 212 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: I mentioned this in the intro project X Ray the 213 00:09:40,879 --> 00:09:43,639 Bat Bombs. I need you to walk me through the 214 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:47,600 logic here. How does a dentist actist yea, convince the 215 00:09:47,639 --> 00:09:50,080 President of the United States to weaponize bats. 216 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 2: It's a great story, Doctor Little Adams. He was a dentist, 217 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,200 but he was also an amateur inventor and crucially a 218 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:57,720 friend of Eleanor Roosevelt. 219 00:09:57,799 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: Ah the connection, that's the key. 220 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,399 Speaker 2: He was on vacation at Carlsbad Caverns in New Mexico, 221 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:07,000 beautiful place, stunning, and he's watching these millions of Mexican 222 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,679 free tailed bats fly out of the cave at dusk. 223 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:11,759 It's like a river of bats in the sky. And 224 00:10:11,799 --> 00:10:14,720 this is right after Pearl Harbor. The country is angry, 225 00:10:14,919 --> 00:10:18,399 looking for payback, and Adams has this thought. Bats can 226 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:22,080 carry things, Bats seek darkness to hide and Japanese cities 227 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,279 are largely made of wood and paper, So. 228 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: He does the math bat plus bomb equals fire exactly. 229 00:10:28,799 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 2: He drafted a proposal. He argued that if you released 230 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,879 thousands of bats, each carrying a tiny time delayed and 231 00:10:37,039 --> 00:10:41,039 sendiary bomb, they would scatter over a Japanese city. They 232 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,320 would fly into the attics, the eaves, the bamboo walls 233 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,320 to hide from the daylight, and then the timers go 234 00:10:46,399 --> 00:10:50,759 off and suddenly you have thousands of fires starting simultaneously 235 00:10:50,759 --> 00:10:54,720 from inside the structures. The fire department would be overwhelmed instantly, 236 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,240 the whole city burns. 237 00:10:55,919 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: Down diabolically clever I have to make in theory. 238 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 2: In theory, it's brilliant. Because he had that connection to 239 00:11:01,519 --> 00:11:05,399 the roosevelts. The plan actually got greenlit. The Marine Corps 240 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,000 was assigned to test it. They designed these little canisters 241 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,120 to hold the bats. They figured out how to cool 242 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,759 the bats down so they would hibernate during transport. 243 00:11:13,879 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: So they're dropping sleeping bats, right. 244 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,559 Speaker 2: They dropped from a plane in this canister. It opens 245 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:20,960 and they wake up as they fall, deploy their wings 246 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:22,919 and fly off to find a place to roost. 247 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,399 Speaker 1: So what happened? Why didn't we win the war with 248 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:26,399 an army of bats. 249 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 2: Well, they did a live fire test, or maybe a 250 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:32,279 live bat test, at the Carl's Bad Army Airfield. They 251 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,799 armed the bats, they released them. But bats are wild animals. 252 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:37,399 They don't follow military orders. 253 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: They didn't go to the mock Japanese village they built. 254 00:11:40,039 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 2: Some did, but a lot of them just looked for 255 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,120 the nearest dark, warm place to hide, which happened to 256 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,679 be under the fuel tanks of the base, under the barracks, 257 00:11:48,799 --> 00:11:52,360 inside the hangar, under the general's car. Oh no, the 258 00:11:52,399 --> 00:11:55,639 bats roosted, the timers went off, and they incinerated the 259 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,480 air force base. They burned down the very facility that 260 00:11:58,559 --> 00:11:59,159 was testing them. 261 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: Talk about friendly fire. Yeah, so they proved it worked, 262 00:12:02,279 --> 00:12:03,200 just on the wrong target. 263 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:09,519 Speaker 2: It was uncontrollable, and eventually the Manhattan Project, the atomic bomb, 264 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:14,080 was nearing completion. The military decided that one big, reliable 265 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:18,200 bomb was better than a million, tiny, furry, unpredictable arsonists. 266 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,080 So Project X RAY was shelved. 267 00:12:21,279 --> 00:12:24,039 Speaker 1: It is just wild that nuclear annihilation was the sane 268 00:12:24,039 --> 00:12:26,679 alternative in that scenario. Yeah, but they didn't just try 269 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:29,759 to weaponize the sky. They tried to weaponize the ocean itself. 270 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,799 Project Seal the Tsunami bomb right. 271 00:12:32,879 --> 00:12:35,519 Speaker 2: This was a joint operation with New Zealand in nineteen 272 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,799 forty four, and the logic was simple, If a natural 273 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,360 tsunami can wipe out a coast, can we artificially create one. 274 00:12:42,759 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: They wanted to play Poseidon pretty much. 275 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 2: They detonated massive amounts of explosives underwater just off the coast, 276 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,000 trying to trigger a tidal wave. They thought if they 277 00:12:52,039 --> 00:12:53,919 could just get the rhythm right, if they could blast 278 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,679 the water in a specific sequence, they could generate a 279 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,840 thirty foot wave to wash away coastal defenses or e 280 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:01,200 than entire cities. 281 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: But physics had a different opinion. 282 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,279 Speaker 2: Physics said no, a very firm no. It turns out 283 00:13:06,399 --> 00:13:08,759 the energy required to move that much of the ocean 284 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:13,159 is exponentially higher than conventional explosives can provide. Even later 285 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,840 calculations showed that detonating a nuclear bomb underwater wouldn't create 286 00:13:16,879 --> 00:13:19,759 a city destroying wave. It would just create a very 287 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,000 radioactive splash and a lot of dead fish. 288 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: So much for that. I appreciate the ambition, though, let's 289 00:13:25,159 --> 00:13:28,200 just invent a tidal wave. But my favorite animal project 290 00:13:28,279 --> 00:13:31,080 has to be the pigeon guided bomb because this involves 291 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:33,840 BF Skinner, the famous behavioral psychologist. 292 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:38,759 Speaker 2: Yes, this is before microchips, before GPS. Guidance systems in 293 00:13:38,799 --> 00:13:41,879 the forties were terrible. If you dropped a bomb from 294 00:13:41,919 --> 00:13:43,639 a high altitude, you were lucky if it hit the 295 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:47,480 right neighborhood. Skinner said, you know, it has a great eyesight, 296 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,960 great reflexes, and can be trained with positive reinforcement. 297 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: Pigeons, so describe the interface for me. The pigeon isn't 298 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,639 flying the plane with a tiny joystick, right, not. 299 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 2: A joystick, a touch screen, well more of a a 300 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:01,159 pex screen. 301 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:01,639 Speaker 1: I love it. 302 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 2: The pigeon is strapped into a custom harness. Inside the 303 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,120 missile's nose cone. There is a lens that projects an 304 00:14:08,159 --> 00:14:10,960 image of the ground, say a battleship, onto a small 305 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,240 screen in front of the bird. The pigeon has been 306 00:14:13,279 --> 00:14:15,519 trained to peck at the image of the ship to 307 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:16,440 get a food. 308 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: Pellet, so it sees the ship. It pecks the ship simple. 309 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 2: Enough, and the screen is conductive. The pecking mechanically operates 310 00:14:23,039 --> 00:14:25,480 the fins. If the image of the ship moves to 311 00:14:25,519 --> 00:14:27,600 the left of the screen, the pigeon pecks to the 312 00:14:27,679 --> 00:14:30,320 left and the missile turns left to recenter it. They 313 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,559 actually had a system with three pigeons for. 314 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: Redundancy, democracy and guidance systems. 315 00:14:35,159 --> 00:14:38,039 Speaker 2: Two out of three pigeons vote to turn left. Its 316 00:14:38,159 --> 00:14:38,919 majority rule. 317 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: Did it? Did it work? 318 00:14:40,799 --> 00:14:44,519 Speaker 2: It worked brilliantly in simulations. The pigeons were incredibly accurate. 319 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,799 They were unjammable, they didn't need batteries. They were practically 320 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,000 fool proof. But the military brass just couldn't get past 321 00:14:52,039 --> 00:14:55,600 the giggle factor. They couldn't seriously field a weapon system 322 00:14:55,639 --> 00:14:57,120 that relied on bird seed. 323 00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: That's a shame. It would have changed the phrase bird 324 00:15:00,159 --> 00:15:04,600 brain forever. But let's jump to the modern day. Because 325 00:15:04,639 --> 00:15:07,960 the animal inspiration hasn't stopped, it's just become robotic. 326 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 2: We have to talk about the etr robot AH, the 327 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,320 energetically autonomous tactical robot. 328 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:15,919 Speaker 1: This feels like the prequel to the Matrix of the Terminator. 329 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:17,559 This is how the machines take over. 330 00:15:17,639 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 2: Well, the concept addresses a real problem supply lines. A 331 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,879 tank needs gas, a truck needs diesel. If you are 332 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,399 deep in enemy territory, refueling is one of the most 333 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,440 dangerous things you can do. So DARPA funded a robot 334 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:32,600 that could forge for its own fuel. It has a 335 00:15:32,639 --> 00:15:33,480 buyer mass. 336 00:15:33,279 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: Engine, meaning it burns organic matter to generate electricity. 337 00:15:36,559 --> 00:15:40,799 Speaker 2: Exactly sticks leaves, grass, wood chips. It has a robotic 338 00:15:40,879 --> 00:15:43,519 arm that grabs vegetation, shoves it into a combustion chamber, 339 00:15:43,559 --> 00:15:45,080 and just keeps going indefinitely. 340 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,519 Speaker 1: But the Internet immediately pointed out the flaw in the 341 00:15:48,559 --> 00:15:53,759 pr Organic matter includes well everything dead bodies, right if 342 00:15:53,759 --> 00:15:56,879 this thing is roaming a battlefield and there are casualties 343 00:15:57,159 --> 00:15:58,399 human or animal. 344 00:15:58,159 --> 00:16:01,519 Speaker 2: The creators issued a very antic press release insisting the 345 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,840 robot as a strict vegetarian. They swore they had programmed 346 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,639 it to recognize and distinguished plant matter from animal matter. 347 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,120 But just the image, the idea of a military robot 348 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:14,919 eating to survive it triggers a primal fear in us. 349 00:16:15,159 --> 00:16:18,879 Speaker 1: It's the industrialization of predation. We don't like it. Nice robot, here, 350 00:16:19,039 --> 00:16:20,639 have a salad, Please don't eat my leg. 351 00:16:20,799 --> 00:16:23,559 Speaker 2: It creates a psychological barrier that is just very hard 352 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,879 to overcome, even if it is perfectly harmless. 353 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: Let's move away from the flesh eating robots and look 354 00:16:28,399 --> 00:16:31,519 up way up thread number three, the nuclear obsession. 355 00:16:31,919 --> 00:16:35,039 Speaker 2: If the animal ideas were about creativity. The nuclear ideas 356 00:16:35,039 --> 00:16:38,919 were about brute force and insecurity. 357 00:16:38,399 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: Specifically the insecurity of the Cold War Project A one 358 00:16:41,759 --> 00:16:43,720 nineteen the plan to nuke the Moon. 359 00:16:44,159 --> 00:16:47,679 Speaker 2: Context is absolutely key here. It's the late fifties. The 360 00:16:47,759 --> 00:16:50,960 Soviets have just launched Sputnik. They're winning the space race. 361 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,639 The American public is terrified. They look up at the 362 00:16:53,759 --> 00:16:56,360 night sky and think the Russians are up there looking 363 00:16:56,399 --> 00:16:59,399 down on us. The US government felt they needed a 364 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,639 gesture that it was impossible to ignore a show of force, So. 365 00:17:03,639 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: They didn't want to land on the Moon. They wanted 366 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:06,519 to attack it. 367 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,319 Speaker 2: The plan was to launch a nuclear warhead to the 368 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,000 terminator line of the Moon, that's the border between the 369 00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:16,279 light side and the dark side. Upon detonation, the massive 370 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,000 dust cloud would be illuminated by the sun. It would 371 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,160 be a huge glowing spectacle, visible to everyone on Earth 372 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:23,000 with the naked eye. 373 00:17:23,039 --> 00:17:25,400 Speaker 1: It was a cosmic billboard, a piece of graffiti on 374 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,240 the Moon that said, look what we can do. 375 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,519 Speaker 2: That's a perfect way to put it. It had zero 376 00:17:29,559 --> 00:17:32,920 scientific value. It was purely psychological warfare. We can touch 377 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:33,839 the Moon and we can. 378 00:17:33,759 --> 00:17:35,880 Speaker 1: Destroy it, so why didn't they do it? 379 00:17:36,039 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 2: Cooler heads prevailed, someone finally did the math on the 380 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:43,279 potential pr fallout. Imagine if the rocket failed on launch 381 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,640 and crashed back to Earth, You've just nuked your own country. 382 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,559 Or what if it succeeds, You've just desecrated the celestial 383 00:17:50,599 --> 00:17:53,640 body that all of humanity shares. You'd instantly become the 384 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,720 villains of the Solar System. They decided that a human 385 00:17:56,799 --> 00:18:00,799 landing the Apollo program was a much better symbol of superiority. 386 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: Oh goodness for that, But they didn't stop trying to 387 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:05,960 find uses for nukes. Project Ryan is the one that 388 00:18:06,039 --> 00:18:08,559 really breaks my brain. This wasn't a weapon. It was 389 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:10,039 an engine. 390 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,799 Speaker 2: Nuclear pulse propulsion, and this is real physics. The idea 391 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,640 is to build a massive spaceship with a giant steel 392 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,440 pusher plate on the back. You then eject a small 393 00:18:18,519 --> 00:18:21,240 nuclear bomb out the back, detonate it, and the blast 394 00:18:21,279 --> 00:18:23,480 wave hits the plate and pushes the ship forward. 395 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,880 Speaker 1: You are literally surfing on a continuous series of nuclear explosion. 396 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 2: Boom push, boom, push, over and over. It sounds insane, 397 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,720 like something whilely Coyote would draw up, but the physics 398 00:18:32,759 --> 00:18:35,359 is sound and it is incredibly efficient. It would have 399 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,200 allowed us to build massive ships battleship size and get 400 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,759 them to Mars in weeks or Saturn in months. 401 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 1: We could have been a solar system spanning civilization by 402 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:44,200 the nineteen eighties. 403 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 2: It's very likely, yes, But the downside is the fallout. 404 00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:52,000 Every single launch from Earth would release massive amounts of 405 00:18:52,079 --> 00:18:55,440 radiation into the atmosphere. The Nuclear Test Ban Treaty of 406 00:18:55,480 --> 00:19:00,000 nineteen sixty three, which banned atmospheric testing, effectively killed the project. 407 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,000 We chose clean air over fast space travel. 408 00:19:03,759 --> 00:19:05,799 Speaker 1: A fair trade, I suppose, yeah. But if they could 409 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,200 put nukes in space, they certainly tried to hide them 410 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,359 under the ice. Project ice Worm. 411 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,279 Speaker 2: This is a story of incredible engineering hubris versus the 412 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,960 unstoppable reality of nature. In the late fifties, the US 413 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,240 built a secret base under the Greenland ice sheet. It 414 00:19:21,279 --> 00:19:22,279 was called Camp. 415 00:19:22,039 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: Sentry, and the cover story was polar research, right, and. 416 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 2: They did do some legitimate research. They drilled the first 417 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,400 ice cores that helped us understand ancient climates. But the 418 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,839 real top secret mission was Project ice Worm. The plan 419 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,359 was to dig twenty five hundred miles of tunnels under 420 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,079 the ice to house six hundred nuclear missiles, a. 421 00:19:40,039 --> 00:19:42,400 Speaker 1: Mobile launch site hidden into the glare of the Arctic, 422 00:19:42,519 --> 00:19:45,640 red on the Soviet storstep. It's strategically brilliant. 423 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,880 Speaker 2: It was. They built the city, They had a movie theater, 424 00:19:49,079 --> 00:19:52,519 a chapel, a portable nuclear reactor for power. It was 425 00:19:52,559 --> 00:19:56,759 an absolute marvel of engineering. But they forgot one very 426 00:19:56,799 --> 00:19:58,880 important thing. What's that glacier's move? 427 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: Ah, the ice isn't static, not at all. 428 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 2: It flows. It's like a very very slow river. The 429 00:20:05,759 --> 00:20:09,759 tunnel started warping and de forming almost immediately. Walls crushed 430 00:20:09,759 --> 00:20:12,559 in the ceiling of the reactor room began to lower. 431 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,200 The glacier was slowly but surely eating the base. 432 00:20:15,559 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 1: They were fighting geology, and geology always wins. 433 00:20:18,279 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 2: It does. They had to abandon it in nineteen sixty six. 434 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:25,119 And here's the lingering horror story. When they left, they 435 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,440 assumed the continuous snowfall would bury the base forever. But 436 00:20:28,559 --> 00:20:31,480 with climate change, the ice sheet is melting. There is 437 00:20:31,519 --> 00:20:34,319 a very real fear that the toxic waste, the sewage, 438 00:20:34,319 --> 00:20:36,720 and the radioactive coolant from the reactor left behind at 439 00:20:36,759 --> 00:20:39,640 Camp Sentry could be exposed in the next few decades. 440 00:20:39,839 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 1: So the secrets are literally sawing out. Exactly before we 441 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,240 leave the nuclear topic, we have to talk about fog bank. 442 00:20:45,599 --> 00:20:47,480 That sounds like a mystery novel, the Case of the 443 00:20:47,519 --> 00:20:48,359 Lost fog Bank. 444 00:20:48,519 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 2: This is less about explosions and more about institutional memory loss, 445 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,000 which can be just as scary. Fog Bank is a 446 00:20:55,039 --> 00:20:57,680 code name for a material. We don't know exactly what 447 00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:59,960 it is. It's classified some kind of aerogel or fun 448 00:21:00,559 --> 00:21:03,039 but it is a critical component for the W seventy 449 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,039 six warhead. It's the interstage material that channels the X 450 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,680 rays from the primary fission explosion to trigger the secondary 451 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:10,480 fuson explosion. 452 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 1: So without fog bank, the nuke is a dud. A 453 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,920 thermonuclear bomb doesn't go thermal correct. 454 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,319 Speaker 2: The US stopped making this material in the eighties. They 455 00:21:17,319 --> 00:21:20,440 closed the facility. The scientists who knew the process retired 456 00:21:20,519 --> 00:21:23,640 or passed away. The notes were well they were archived. 457 00:21:24,279 --> 00:21:26,599 Fast forward to the two thousands, the Navy needs to 458 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,599 refurbish these warheads and extend their life. They go to 459 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,440 the archives to find the recipe for fog bank and 460 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,200 they couldn't make it work. They had literally forgotten how 461 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,640 to manufacture this critical, top secret material. They had the 462 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,680 chemical formula, but there was some art to the process 463 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:46,200 a specific temperature, a certain humidity, a particular mixing speed 464 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:47,279 that wasn't written down. 465 00:21:47,519 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: It's like your grandma's cookie recipe where she just says, 466 00:21:50,039 --> 00:21:52,480 add a pinch of love. But here, if you miss 467 00:21:52,559 --> 00:21:54,880 the pinch, the nuclear deterrent fails. 468 00:21:55,039 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 2: It's a perfect analogy. They had to spend millions of 469 00:21:58,519 --> 00:22:01,960 dollars in years of research to reverse engineer their own invention. 470 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,200 It's a terrifying reminder that knowledge is fragile. Even classified 471 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,519 top secret knowledge can just fade away if you don't 472 00:22:08,559 --> 00:22:09,519 actively maintain it. 473 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,799 Speaker 1: That's wild. Let's move to a thread that is less 474 00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:17,960 about science and more about well obsession, specifically the Pentagon's 475 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,039 obsession with one man Del Castro. 476 00:22:21,279 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 2: Ah Cuba, the Operation Mongoose era. This is where the 477 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,559 lines between military strategy and a fratthouse prank war get 478 00:22:28,599 --> 00:22:29,720 incredibly blurry. 479 00:22:29,839 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: The man in charge was Brigadier General Edward Lansdale. We 480 00:22:33,519 --> 00:22:35,359 have to give his background because it explains everything. He 481 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:36,880 was a psychological warfare gas He was a. 482 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 2: Legend in that field. In the Philippines fighting the Huck rebellion. 483 00:22:40,519 --> 00:22:43,039 He staged fake vampire attacks. 484 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, what fake vampire attacks? 485 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,839 Speaker 2: I'm serious. He knew the local gorillas were superstitious about 486 00:22:48,839 --> 00:22:51,920 a creature in their folklore called in a swan, a 487 00:22:52,039 --> 00:22:56,079 sort of vampire like creature. So Lansdale's men would snatch 488 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,119 a rebel patrolman from the rear of his patrol, punch 489 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,680 two holes in a drain all the blood from his body, 490 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,240 and leave him on the trail for his comrades to 491 00:23:05,279 --> 00:23:07,839 find in the morning. My god, the rebels would find 492 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,960 the body, think the swine is hunting us, and flee 493 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,119 the area in terror. 494 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 1: That is horrifyingly creative. So they put this guy in 495 00:23:15,519 --> 00:23:17,400 charge of getting rid of Castro, and he. 496 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,519 Speaker 2: Brought that same creative energy to the job. The ideas 497 00:23:20,519 --> 00:23:22,039 they generated were just wild. 498 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,599 Speaker 1: Let's run through a few of them. Operation Free Ride. 499 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,039 Speaker 2: The concept was simple, drop thousands of one way airline 500 00:23:28,079 --> 00:23:31,640 tickets to Mexico or Venezuela over Cuban cities. The goal 501 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,000 was to induce a massive brain drain. Here's your free 502 00:23:35,039 --> 00:23:38,000 ticket out. They thought, if all the doctors, engineers and 503 00:23:38,039 --> 00:23:40,359 professionals left the country would collapse on its own. 504 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: Okay, and what about Operation full Up. 505 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,079 Speaker 2: That one was biological warfare, but against engines. They wanted 506 00:23:46,079 --> 00:23:49,359 to sneak agents into Cuba to spike the fuel supplies 507 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,079 with a biological agent that would eat the gasoline or 508 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,000 you know, clog the engines of trucks and tanks, and then. 509 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,759 Speaker 1: They blame the Soviets for sending bad gas exactly. 510 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,759 Speaker 2: The goal was to make Castro distrust his allies. 511 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,559 Speaker 1: So chaos though, my absolute favorite is the pettiness of 512 00:24:04,599 --> 00:24:05,920 the fat Castro plan. 513 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 2: This is Lansdale at his peak. The proposal was to 514 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,599 fake photographs of Fidel Castro. In these photos, he would 515 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,039 look obese, sitting in a lavish room, surrounded by beautiful 516 00:24:16,039 --> 00:24:18,759 women and just mountains of fancy food. 517 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: The idea being to make the starving Cuban population jealous. 518 00:24:23,079 --> 00:24:25,440 Look at El Camante feasting while you starve. 519 00:24:25,599 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 2: But just think about it for one second. Castro was 520 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,319 on television constantly. He gave these four hour speeches. The 521 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,079 Cuban people knew exactly what he looked like. The moment 522 00:24:34,079 --> 00:24:36,720 he stepped on a podium looking normal, the entire operation 523 00:24:36,759 --> 00:24:38,680 would be exposed as a clumsy lie. 524 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: It's just cartoonish. Yeah, But we have to stop laughing 525 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,480 for a minute because this thread takes a very very 526 00:24:43,559 --> 00:24:46,119 dark turn. Operation Northwoods. 527 00:24:46,559 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 2: Yes, this is where the Looney Tunes aspect completely vanishes. 528 00:24:50,759 --> 00:24:54,960 Northwoods is one of the most disturbing documents ever declassified 529 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:55,960 by the US government. 530 00:24:56,079 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: This wasn't about pranks. This is about false flags. 531 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 2: A false flag operation is when you attack yourself and 532 00:25:01,799 --> 00:25:05,400 blame the enemy to justify going to war. In nineteen 533 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,720 sixty two, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the highest ranking 534 00:25:08,759 --> 00:25:12,920 military officers in America, all signed off on a formal proposal. 535 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: What was in the plan? 536 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,319 Speaker 2: It was a menu of options. They proposed sinking boats 537 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,039 filled with Cuban refugees on their way to Florida and 538 00:25:21,079 --> 00:25:25,960 blaming Castro. They proposed hijacking American planes. They proposed blowing 539 00:25:26,039 --> 00:25:28,640 up a US ship in Guantanamo Bay, a remember the 540 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,440 main incident. They proposed orchestrating a terror campaign with bombs 541 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:33,799 in Miami and Washington, d. 542 00:25:33,799 --> 00:25:35,759 Speaker 1: C killing American citizens. 543 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 2: Killing their own people, and then planting false evidence to 544 00:25:38,279 --> 00:25:41,119 prove Castor and Cuba did it. They wanted an invasion 545 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,200 of Cuba so badly that they were willing to manufacture 546 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,200 a national tragedy to get the American public to support it. 547 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:47,839 Speaker 1: Stopped it. 548 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,279 Speaker 2: President John F. Kennedy, the plan went all the way 549 00:25:51,319 --> 00:25:54,079 to his desk, and he rejected it flat out. He 550 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,319 effectively removed Lansdale from the Cuba project shortly after. But 551 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,240 the fact that it made it that far, that men 552 00:26:01,319 --> 00:26:04,200 with stars on their shoulders thought this was a viable, acceptable, 553 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,000 option is genuinely terrifying. 554 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:12,519 Speaker 1: It validates every conspiracy theorist's worst nightmare. Would the government 555 00:26:12,599 --> 00:26:15,319 hurt its own people to start a war in nineteen 556 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,599 sixty two? The answer from the top of the Pentagon 557 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:18,599 was yes, we'd like to. 558 00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:21,279 Speaker 2: It's the ultimate breach of trust between a government and 559 00:26:21,319 --> 00:26:21,799 its people. 560 00:26:21,839 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 1: Okay, let's pivot to something slightly less heavy, but equally weird, 561 00:26:26,079 --> 00:26:30,400 the world of spies, the occult, and maybe even aliens. 562 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,079 Speaker 2: The X file section of the archives. 563 00:26:32,319 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 1: Let's start with what might be the grossest spy mission ever, 564 00:26:35,519 --> 00:26:36,559 Operation Tamrisk. 565 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 2: Spycraft is usually depicted as you know, tuxedos and martinis. 566 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,880 Operation Tamrisk was about dumpsters and dysentery. 567 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,759 Speaker 1: This was a joint effort US UK French intelligence. What 568 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:46,880 exactly were they doing? 569 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 2: They were following Soviet military maneuvers in East Germany and 570 00:26:50,039 --> 00:26:53,400 they discovered a key vulnerability. Soviet troops were not issued 571 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:54,079 toilet paper. 572 00:26:54,319 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 1: A critical supply chain failure for sure. 573 00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,400 Speaker 2: A major one. So what do soldiers do? They used 574 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,480 whatever paper they had on hand, letters from home, coating sheets, 575 00:27:04,559 --> 00:27:08,880 secret documents, training manuals, and because the plumbing in the 576 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,519 barracks was terrible, they wouldn't flush this paper. They threw 577 00:27:12,519 --> 00:27:13,519 it in trash bins. 578 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,319 Speaker 1: I see where this is going, and I don't like it. 579 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,559 Speaker 2: Our spies would wait for the Soviet units to leave 580 00:27:20,559 --> 00:27:23,359 on maneuvers. Then they would literally jump into the dumpsters. 581 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,960 They were digging through use toilet paper. 582 00:27:25,759 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: All defined secrets, and they found them. 583 00:27:28,319 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 2: They recovered codes, troop movements, reports on low morale. It 584 00:27:32,519 --> 00:27:36,079 was an intelligence gold mine wrapped in filth. But the 585 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,920 files mentioned in even darker detail. They weren't just looking 586 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:39,400 for paper. 587 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: What else were they looking for? 588 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 2: They were looking for biological sample like severed limbs. Yes, 589 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,680 they found amputated limbs and heavily bandaged bloody waste from 590 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,559 the base infirmris. They analyzed it to see if the 591 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,079 Soviets were testing chemical weapons on their own troops. They 592 00:27:54,079 --> 00:27:56,480 were looking for traces of nerve agents in the blood 593 00:27:56,519 --> 00:27:58,079 and tissue found in the trash. 594 00:27:58,279 --> 00:28:01,839 Speaker 1: That is a grim, grim job. I'm a spy. Oh 595 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,680 did you drive an aston Martin? No, I dig through 596 00:28:04,759 --> 00:28:06,920 radioactive medical ways for used codebooks. 597 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,519 Speaker 2: Not quite the glamorous life portrayed in the movies. 598 00:28:10,559 --> 00:28:13,319 Speaker 1: From the physical world to the metaphysical, we have the 599 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,720 psychic spies, the gateway process. 600 00:28:17,079 --> 00:28:20,079 Speaker 2: This was the Cold War's desperate attempt to find an edge. 601 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,680 If we can't get a spy into the room physically, 602 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,359 can we send their mind? The Army, Intelligence and the 603 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,240 CIA spent millions trying to train soldiers in remote viewing. 604 00:28:29,079 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: Astral projection, basically sitting in a room in Maryland and 605 00:28:32,519 --> 00:28:34,440 seeing a secret bunker in Siberia. 606 00:28:34,559 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 2: That was the goal. They wrote these very detailed, very 607 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,200 scientific sounding manuals on how to use audio frequencies to 608 00:28:41,279 --> 00:28:43,880 sink the hemispheres of the brain to escape space time. 609 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,680 They explored reincarnation. They treated it like a legitimate science, 610 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:48,359 as did it work? 611 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:49,839 Speaker 1: Did they find any secret bunkers? 612 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,759 Speaker 2: They produced thousands of pages of drawings and reports. I 613 00:28:53,799 --> 00:28:56,519 see a red building, I see a crane. But when 614 00:28:56,519 --> 00:28:59,559 they check the results against actual satellite photos, the accuracy 615 00:28:59,759 --> 00:29:03,920 was statistically no better than random guessing. You can't build 616 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:04,960 a war strategy on a. 617 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,559 Speaker 1: Vibe, it would seem not. And speaking of things in 618 00:29:07,599 --> 00:29:12,039 the sky UFOs, we have to talk about the Area 619 00:29:12,119 --> 00:29:12,920 fifty one twist. 620 00:29:13,079 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 2: Everyone knows Area fifty one. It's the mecca of UFO 621 00:29:16,279 --> 00:29:19,200 conspiracy theories. But what a lot of recent reports and 622 00:29:19,279 --> 00:29:23,400 earlier declassifications suggest is that the Air Force loved the 623 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,039 alien rumors. They cultivated them. 624 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:26,839 Speaker 1: They encouraged them. 625 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 2: Why think about it, it's the sixties, seventies, eighties. You 626 00:29:30,279 --> 00:29:33,279 are testing the U two spyplane or the SR seventy 627 00:29:33,319 --> 00:29:36,680 one Blackbird or the F one to seventeen stealth fighter. 628 00:29:37,319 --> 00:29:40,920 These aircraft look weird. They are bizarre shapes. They're matte 629 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,319 black triangles or shiny silver discs that fly at impossible 630 00:29:44,359 --> 00:29:47,240 speeds and altitudes. If a civilian sees one, you don't 631 00:29:47,279 --> 00:29:51,359 want them guessing that's a top secret high altitude reconnaissance aircraft. 632 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,359 Speaker 1: You want them guessing martians. 633 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 2: Exactly because if the Soviets here, some Americans think they 634 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,640 saw aliens, they laugh. If the Soviets here, the Americans 635 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:01,960 have a t angular jet that is invisible to radar, 636 00:30:02,039 --> 00:30:04,920 they panic and start building counters. So the Air Force 637 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,920 quietly fed the UFO mythology. It was the perfect cover 638 00:30:08,039 --> 00:30:09,960 story for real secret technology. 639 00:30:10,079 --> 00:30:12,039 Speaker 1: Please keep talking about the Little Green Man, just don't 640 00:30:12,039 --> 00:30:13,200 look at the fuselage. 641 00:30:13,279 --> 00:30:15,359 Speaker 2: It went so far that they actually used it as 642 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,759 a hazing ritual for new guys. There's this story that 643 00:30:18,839 --> 00:30:20,759 was finally declassified about Yankee Blue. 644 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 1: This is just me. 645 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 2: It's terrible. Senior officers Area fifty one would take a 646 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,880 new recruit, bring them into a secure room and tell them, son, 647 00:30:29,359 --> 00:30:32,599 you have been selected for the Yankee Blue program. They'd 648 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,319 show them fake dossier's, fake photos all about a captured 649 00:30:36,359 --> 00:30:39,240 alien that was supposedly kept on base. They'd make the 650 00:30:39,319 --> 00:30:41,960 kids sweat thinking he was about to meet et, just 651 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:43,839 for a laugh, just for a laugh, to see how 652 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,240 they'd react. It went on for decades. It was finally 653 00:30:46,279 --> 00:30:49,680 banned in twenty twenty three because it was considered, you know, 654 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,240 unprofessional to gas light your subordinates about the existence of 655 00:30:53,279 --> 00:30:54,599 extraterrestrial life. 656 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: I would imagine it was bad for morale when they 657 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:57,720 found out it was all a. 658 00:30:57,799 --> 00:30:59,119 Speaker 2: Joke, probably a relief. 659 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: Honestly, think it's some fun with the weird stuff. Yeah, 660 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,000 but we have to address the thread that really hurts 661 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,880 to read. Thread six War crimes and unethical experiments. 662 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is where the lack of oversight stops being 663 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,720 funny or quirky and starts being tragic. 664 00:31:14,039 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 1: We all know about Operation paper Clip recruiting Nazi scientists 665 00:31:17,799 --> 00:31:20,960 like Werner von Braun to build our rockets. 666 00:31:20,599 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 2: And space program, and that was a clear moral calculation. 667 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,400 The US government decided that winning the space race and 668 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,039 beating the Soviets was worth forgiving men who used slave 669 00:31:29,119 --> 00:31:32,440 labor from concentration camps to build V two rockets that 670 00:31:32,519 --> 00:31:35,920 bombed London, a whitewashed history for utility. 671 00:31:36,519 --> 00:31:38,519 Speaker 1: But what about what they did to their own soldiers? 672 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:40,039 Edgewood Arsenal. 673 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,119 Speaker 2: This was a facility in Maryland from the nineteen fifties 674 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,640 to the nineteen seventies. They used six seven hundred American 675 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,480 soldiers as human guinea pigs. 676 00:31:48,519 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: What were they testing on them? 677 00:31:49,759 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 2: Everything you can imagine, chemical weapons like mustard gas and 678 00:31:52,799 --> 00:31:57,839 saren nerve agent VX had a whole range of hallucinogens 679 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,279 and psychoactive drugs like LSD and BZ, which was a 680 00:32:01,319 --> 00:32:02,519 super hallucinogen. 681 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: Did soldiers consent to this? 682 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,079 Speaker 2: They signed forms, but the forms were incredibly vague. They 683 00:32:07,119 --> 00:32:09,799 were told they were helping test equipment or doing medical research. 684 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,000 They were never told we are going to dose you 685 00:32:12,039 --> 00:32:14,559 with a powerful incapacitating agent and leave you in a 686 00:32:14,559 --> 00:32:16,359 padded room for three days to see if you go 687 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:17,480 permanently insane. 688 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,519 Speaker 1: And many of these men suffered from severe health problems 689 00:32:20,559 --> 00:32:21,559 for the rest of their lives. 690 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:26,039 Speaker 2: Cancer's psychological trauma, you name it, and the government denied 691 00:32:26,039 --> 00:32:29,279 it for decades. It's a fundamental betrayal of the uniform. 692 00:32:29,359 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: And then there's Operation C Spray. This is the one 693 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,200 that makes me look at the fog in San Francisco differently. 694 00:32:34,279 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 2: In nineteen fifty, the Navy wanted to know how vulnerable 695 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:43,200 is a major US city to a biological attack, so 696 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,000 they decided to simulate one. They took a Navy ship, 697 00:32:46,079 --> 00:32:48,200 parked it just off the coast of San Francisco, and 698 00:32:48,319 --> 00:32:52,680 used giant hoses to spray a bacteria called Sarutia marsessens 699 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:53,319 into the air. 700 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,119 Speaker 1: They just blanketed the city with bacteria their days. 701 00:32:57,519 --> 00:33:01,039 Speaker 2: The city's famous fog carried it everywhere. They had monitors 702 00:33:01,039 --> 00:33:03,000 set up all over the Bay Area, and the bacteria 703 00:33:03,079 --> 00:33:06,559 reached every single neighborhood. They proved that a terror attack 704 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,000 like that would be incredibly effective. 705 00:33:08,559 --> 00:33:10,359 Speaker 1: But they claimed that bacteria was harmless. 706 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,079 Speaker 2: They thought it was harmless at the time. It turns 707 00:33:13,119 --> 00:33:17,000 out it wasn't. It's an opportunistic pathogen, meaning it can 708 00:33:17,039 --> 00:33:19,680 cause infections in people who are already sick or have 709 00:33:19,759 --> 00:33:23,359 weakened immune systems. Dozens of people went to the hospital 710 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,920 with rare pneumonia and urinary tract infections. One man, Edward Nevin, 711 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,279 died from a severe heart infection caused by that specific bacteria. 712 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: So the government killed a citizen in a secret test 713 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,720 and didn't tell anyone for nearly thirty years. 714 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 2: The family only found out when the files were to 715 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,039 classified in the late seventies. They sued in the eighties 716 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,279 they lost. The court ruled the government was immune because 717 00:33:45,279 --> 00:33:47,640 they were making high level policy decisions. 718 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:52,559 Speaker 1: That is absolutely chilling. And finally, in this section, Vietnam atrocities, 719 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,920 specifically the manipulation of intelligence the Gulf of Tonkin incident. 720 00:33:57,079 --> 00:33:59,599 Speaker 2: This is the event that served as the legal justification 721 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,359 for them massive escalation of the Vietnam War. We were 722 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,960 all told that North Vietnamese torpedo birts launched two unprovoked 723 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,119 attacks on US destroyers. 724 00:34:07,559 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 1: But the declassified files show back. 725 00:34:10,039 --> 00:34:13,280 Speaker 2: The files and even signals intelligence that was kept secret 726 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,480 for decades show a different story. The first attack likely happened, 727 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,159 though it was provoked. But the second attack, the one 728 00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:23,880 that caused the massive escalation and the congressional resolution, was 729 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:28,079 almost certainly phantom radar images. It was nervous sunnerm and 730 00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:31,320 misinterpreting the sound of their own propellers in rough seas. 731 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,199 But the intelligence officers at the Pentagon and the NSA 732 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,679 cherry picked the data. They ignored the report saying maybe 733 00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:40,480 it's nothing, and pushed only the reports saying we are 734 00:34:40,519 --> 00:34:41,639 definitely under attack. 735 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 1: They shaped the truth to fit the policy they already. 736 00:34:44,119 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 2: Wanted, and fifty eight thousand Americans and millions of Vietnamese, 737 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,440 Leotians and Cambodians died as a result of that escalation. 738 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: It's a heavy reminder that military intelligence isn't just a 739 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,840 collection of facts, its interpretation, and that interpretation can be manipulated. 740 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:00,760 Speaker 2: Or fabricated entirely. 741 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,039 Speaker 1: Okay, let's take a breath. That was the heavy stuff. 742 00:35:04,079 --> 00:35:06,000 We need to end on something that captures the sheer, 743 00:35:06,119 --> 00:35:10,440 unadulterated absurdity of military conflict. The action movie files. 744 00:35:10,679 --> 00:35:13,079 Speaker 2: These are the stories where reality feels like it was 745 00:35:13,119 --> 00:35:15,079 scripted by a Hollywood. 746 00:35:14,679 --> 00:35:18,199 Speaker 1: Let's start with the Battle of Los Angeles nineteen forty two, the. 747 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,360 Speaker 2: Night Los Angeles went to war with well with nothing. 748 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,760 Speaker 1: Tensions were incredibly high. Just a few months after Pearl Harbor. 749 00:35:24,559 --> 00:35:28,519 Speaker 2: Ai Hi, the West coast was convinced a Japanese invasion 750 00:35:28,599 --> 00:35:32,000 was imminent. So one night, a radar operator sees a blip, 751 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,599 then someone reports seeing a flare. Then the air raid 752 00:35:35,679 --> 00:35:39,400 sirens go off, the searchlights sweep the sky, and then 753 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,079 the anti aircraft guns all around the city open up. 754 00:35:42,159 --> 00:35:43,199 Speaker 1: How much did they fire? 755 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 2: Over fourteen hundred artillery shells into the sky over a 756 00:35:46,519 --> 00:35:50,000 populated city. The sky was just exploding for over an hour. 757 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,159 Shrapnel was raining down on homes and streets. People were terrified. 758 00:35:54,199 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 1: And what were they shooting at? 759 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 2: Smoke a weather balloon that got loose nerves. We still 760 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,559 don't know for sure, but we know what it wasn't 761 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,440 Japanese planes. There were none, but the casualties were real. 762 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,280 Five civilians died that night from car crashes during the 763 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,880 blackout or heart attacks from the stress. They fought a 764 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,400 massive kinetic battle against their own anxiety. 765 00:36:13,519 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: Wow, then there's the battle for inter Castle. This one 766 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:18,880 absolutely needs to be a movie. 767 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 2: It's the final days of WWII in Europe. A medieval 768 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,960 castle in Austria is being used by the SS to 769 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,960 hold high value French prisoners. We're talking former prime ministers, 770 00:36:30,039 --> 00:36:33,800 top general's political figures. The local SS division is ordered 771 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,360 to execute them all before the war officially ends. 772 00:36:36,559 --> 00:36:38,679 Speaker 1: And who defends them This is. 773 00:36:38,639 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 2: The crazy part. A handful of American soldiers, the French 774 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,679 prisoners themselves who decide to fight, and a unit of 775 00:36:45,679 --> 00:36:49,400 the Wehrmacht, the regular German Army. So Germans and Americans 776 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,320 fighting side by side, fighting side by side against the FANATICALESS. 777 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,360 It's believed to be the only time it happened in 778 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,119 the entire war. They held the castle together until American 779 00:36:57,159 --> 00:37:00,880 reinforcements arrived. It just breaks that clean arrative of US 780 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,519 versus them. In that moment, it was sanity versus madness. 781 00:37:04,599 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: That's incredible. And we have to talk about Operation Constant 782 00:37:07,039 --> 00:37:10,639 Peg Top Gun, but with real Soviet planes. 783 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,320 Speaker 2: This was a deeply held secret for a very long time. 784 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,760 Through various means, defections, back channel deals, the US managed 785 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:22,159 to steal, buy or otherwise acquire real Soviet meg fighter jets. 786 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,039 They brought them to a secret base in the Nevada Desert. 787 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 1: So our pilots could practice against the real thing. 788 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 2: It changed everything for American fighter pilots. Before this, a 789 00:37:30,519 --> 00:37:33,440 pilot only saw a MiG in a grainy photo or 790 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,239 a manual. Now he's up in the air. He looks 791 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,920 over his shoulder and there is a real Russian jet 792 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,800 on his tail. He learns how it turns, how it accelerates, 793 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,679 what its weaknesses are. They devistified the enemy, No. 794 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,239 Speaker 1: Your enemy taken to its most literal conclusion. 795 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 2: It's credited with saving countless lives and later conflicts. 796 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 1: Which brings us to our finale. The most overkilled story 797 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,679 in the entire stack of files, Operation Paul Bunyan. 798 00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,039 Speaker 2: This is the ultimate example of disproportionate response of I 799 00:38:00,039 --> 00:38:01,719 don't mess with the United States. 800 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,679 Speaker 1: Okay. Set the scene. It was nineteen seventy six. The 801 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,400 Korean DMZ the most heavily fortified border on Earth, and in. 802 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,320 Speaker 2: The middle of it there's a large poplar tree. It's 803 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,360 partially blocking the line of sight between a UN checkpoint 804 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,440 and the North Korean side. Just a tree. 805 00:38:16,519 --> 00:38:19,719 Speaker 1: Two American officers Captain oars A Boniface and Lieutenant Mark 806 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:21,840 Barrett go out with a work party to trim a 807 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:22,880 few branches. 808 00:38:23,119 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 2: Standard maintenance, but a group of North Korean soldiers intervene. 809 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,159 An argument breaks out. It escalates, and the North Koreans 810 00:38:30,199 --> 00:38:32,800 grabbed the axes from the work party and Bunny are 811 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,239 brutally murdered the two American. 812 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 1: Officers over trimming a tree. 813 00:38:36,519 --> 00:38:40,480 Speaker 2: It was a shocking brutal provocation. The US response had 814 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,000 to be strong, but they didn't just bomb them. They 815 00:38:43,039 --> 00:38:44,960 decided to finish the job. They were going to cut 816 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:45,519 down that. 817 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,519 Speaker 1: Tree, but they didn't just send a gardener this time, 818 00:38:47,559 --> 00:38:48,000 I tak no. 819 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 2: They launched Operation Paul Bunyan. Three days later, a convoy 820 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,239 approaches the tree. But this convoy consists of twenty three 821 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,159 US and South Korean vehicles, eight hundred soldiers armed to 822 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,440 the teething special forces with chainsaws. 823 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 1: And the backup. That's not all, is it. 824 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,400 Speaker 2: Not even close? Overhead, they had twenty utility helicopters and 825 00:39:07,599 --> 00:39:12,159 seven Cobra attack helicopter circling behind them. B fifty two 826 00:39:12,199 --> 00:39:15,920 bombers from Guam, capable of carrying nuclear weapons, were flying 827 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,719 patterns F four phantoms and F one eleven's were in 828 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,719 the air and off the coast. The aircraft carrier USS 829 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,440 Midway moved its entire battle group into position. 830 00:39:24,519 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 1: They brought an aircraft carrier to a landscaping job. 831 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,760 Speaker 2: They brought enough firepower to level the entire country of 832 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,239 North Korea and focused all of it on protecting a 833 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:36,440 team of engineers cutting down one tree. The engineers got out, 834 00:39:36,559 --> 00:39:39,440 started their chainsaws, and cut the tree down in forty 835 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,840 two minutes. The North Korean soldiers stood there, watched in 836 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,480 stunned silence, and did absolutely nothing. They were terrified. 837 00:39:46,679 --> 00:39:50,119 Speaker 1: It's the definition of speak softly and carry a big stick, 838 00:39:51,199 --> 00:39:53,599 or in this case, a nuclear capable stick. 839 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,679 Speaker 2: It was effective deterrence. The message was you killed two 840 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,559 of us over a branch, we will bring the apocalypse 841 00:39:59,599 --> 00:40:01,679 to your door step, just to finish the pruning. 842 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,079 Speaker 1: So we've covered fifty secrets. We've gone from bat bombs 843 00:40:05,119 --> 00:40:08,239 to moon nukes, from fat shaming Castro to chopping down 844 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,000 trees with an aircraft carrier. When you look at this 845 00:40:11,079 --> 00:40:13,519 stack of files as a whole, what is the big 846 00:40:13,559 --> 00:40:14,800 takeaway for me? 847 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,320 Speaker 2: It's a story of duality. On one hand, you have 848 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,599 absolute brilliance, the daring, the engineering feats, like the SR 849 00:40:20,639 --> 00:40:23,599 seventy one Blackbird or the cleverness of the Navajo coat talkers. 850 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,239 But on the other hand, you have the staggering stupidity 851 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,920 of the green camouflage. You have the moral void of 852 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,039 the biological testing on your own citizens. 853 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 1: It's like the Pentagon is a massive amplifier. It amplifies 854 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,280 human genius, and it amplifies human incompetence and all our 855 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:40,960 worst impulses. 856 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,639 Speaker 2: And it amplifies fear. That's the real through line for me. 857 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,039 The moonnuke, the psychic spies, the false flags, they all 858 00:40:47,079 --> 00:40:49,800 came from a place of deep paranoid fear that we 859 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,119 were falling behind, that the enemy was about to get us. 860 00:40:52,199 --> 00:40:55,159 Speaker 1: And paranoia with an unlimited checkbook is a very dangerous thing. 861 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,239 Speaker 2: And remember we're only reading these files because they were 862 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,440 declassified some after fifty years. But these are the ones 863 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:02,280 they let us see. 864 00:41:02,639 --> 00:41:05,079 Speaker 1: That's the question that nags at me. If these are 865 00:41:05,119 --> 00:41:07,320 the secrets they are now willing to admit to, right 866 00:41:07,559 --> 00:41:09,519 what are the secrets they're still keeping in the dark 867 00:41:09,639 --> 00:41:12,639 right now? What is the bat bomb or the Operation 868 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:14,280 Northwoods of this year? 869 00:41:14,599 --> 00:41:16,800 Speaker 2: That is the question and we probably won't know the 870 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,320 answer for another fifty years, and by then it might 871 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:20,159 be too late to ask. 872 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,119 Speaker 1: On that cheerful note, I want to turn it over 873 00:41:22,159 --> 00:41:24,639 to you or listeners. Which of these threads did you 874 00:41:24,679 --> 00:41:27,400 find the most justifiable? Maybe you think nuking the moon 875 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,559 was a solid plan to show strength, And which one 876 00:41:30,639 --> 00:41:34,320 terrified you the most? Was it the EATR robot, the 877 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:35,159 false flags. 878 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:39,199 Speaker 2: I'm genuinely curious if anyone out there will defend the 879 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,719 green camouflage. I want to hear that argument. 880 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,440 Speaker 1: If you do, please let us know why in the comments. 881 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,000 We really want to hear your take. This has been thrilling, Dreads. 882 00:41:47,039 --> 00:41:49,039 Thanks for unraveling the madness with us. 883 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:50,159 Speaker 2: Stay curious.