Speaker 1: With Laurent's segele End from London and Gerard Reed from Berlin.
Speaker 2: This is redefining.
Speaker 3: Energy today on reallyferring energy job. We're going to Texas,
Speaker 3: we sure are.
Speaker 2: It is definitely how would I describe it, Well, it's
Speaker 2: definitely the capital of energy in the Western world. That's
Speaker 2: why I describe it as And I don't get all
Speaker 2: forms of energy.
Speaker 3: Right, but first of the world.
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Speaker 5: More flexible, you show you name it, it's there, and
Speaker 5: then add to that all whole part of AI companies
Speaker 5: and yeah, they're at the forefront of everything to do
Speaker 5: with innovation and energy, right, so we need to talk
Speaker 5: about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and what's absolutely crazy is the coass of honorables
Speaker 3: because if you look five years ago and I'm talking
Speaker 3: in gigawatt wind solar batteries. Okay, so five years ago
Speaker 3: we're twenty five five and one. Two years ago thirty five,
Speaker 3: twenty and five, and now we've got forty gig of Win,
Speaker 3: forty gig of SOLA, and twenty GIGAF batteries. Absolutely mind blows,
Speaker 3: its mind blowing.
Speaker 4: You're absolutely right, absolutely, So it's we have to look
Speaker 4: at Texas, right.
Speaker 3: So we're bringing in a Texas girl on the show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we sure are. We're bringing in a Rushi Shama Frank.
Speaker 4: She really is a strategy builder and I would say
Speaker 4: mentor to AI and energy companies. She's highly knowledgeable and
Speaker 4: has been in the space for quite a while, and
Speaker 4: so it's great to have her on.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: I think she was formally with if I remember Crackly, she
Speaker 4: was more formily with Tesla as well.
Speaker 2: Brittiant.
Speaker 3: Look, she's a lot of fun and of course, something
Speaker 3: I'm doing my lawn. So sometimes I'm trying to be
Speaker 3: the smartass and I pull out a lot of statistic
Speaker 3: just before the interview, and of course I I cut
Speaker 3: the wrong stuts. So at some point I said the
Speaker 3: load factor of the ccigts in Texas is thirty two percent.
Speaker 3: That is not true. It's plain wrong. It's blame it
Speaker 3: on TJIPT because the road factor is forty five percent.
Speaker 3: Yeah okay, yeah, yeah yeah, So I draw a lot
Speaker 3: of conclusion based on the wrong STATISTICKS.
Speaker 2: The should putting your hand up and admitting your mistake.
Speaker 3: That's good. Yeah, okay, let's bring Aarushi on the show.
Speaker 3: Exactly A Rushie. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thrilled to be here, Rushie.
Speaker 6: Maybe I could just kick off with just if I
Speaker 6: look from the outside and I look at US energy policy.
Speaker 6: For me, it's all about it's trial drill, right, But
Speaker 6: if I look at Texas, it seems to be much
Speaker 6: more intelligent and that's cheap.
Speaker 2: Bybe cheap, every energy just has to be cheap. Is
Speaker 2: that a fair way of sort of looking at Texas?
Speaker 1: Yes, I think it is s dierrard with the caveat
Speaker 1: that when you say energy is cheap, you need to
Speaker 1: factor in the infrastructure cost, what it takes to deliver
Speaker 1: the energy, and the energy itself on the cheap power side.
Speaker 1: You know, I I'm really fascinating is that I can
Speaker 1: have a great conversation with somebody who wants to come
Speaker 1: to Texas because of cheap industrial power, and they know
Speaker 1: that in a given winter season, the cost of power itself,
Speaker 1: the commodity cost of energy, kill A what hours is
Speaker 1: like six cents in Texas, it's about eight cents Nationally,
Speaker 1: it's like fifteen fourteen in California, seven to eight in
Speaker 1: New York. So there's this idea that, oh, it's just
Speaker 1: this standalone price that's like a cost edge. But the
Speaker 1: big things that I really want to get into with
Speaker 1: you guys is what is the delivery cost stuff? And
Speaker 1: like the funky cool stuff about the Texas market that
Speaker 1: enables that cost Because I KILLO what cost hour is
Speaker 1: not in a vacuum. It is definitely cheaper power than
Speaker 1: everywhere in the US. And that's attractive for all sorts
Speaker 1: of reasons.
Speaker 3: Oh she I like to take a step back. Sure,
Speaker 3: and it's cheap power now, but you know it was
Speaker 3: not always the case. And if I look back twenty
Speaker 3: years ago, which I mean, you're young, so maybe for
Speaker 3: you it's his story, but for us as memory, twenty
Speaker 3: years ago, the average price of power in Texas was
Speaker 3: sixty two dollars make it what hour. If we inflate it,
Speaker 3: that would be one hundred dollar and make it what
Speaker 3: our today. Okay, yeah, and of course today it's twenty seven,
Speaker 3: so the price is four times less than inflation criteria.
Speaker 3: And number one and by the way, if you look
Speaker 3: at pgm, PGM was cheaper than Texas twenty years ago
Speaker 3: and now it's more expensive. But if you look at
Speaker 3: the growth, the growth of power, it's phenomenal. Because overall
Speaker 3: in the US demand has been flat. But if you
Speaker 3: concentrate on Texas twenty years ago, it was three hundred
Speaker 3: hour and now it's four hundred and seventy and you
Speaker 3: know it's expected to continue to grow. So this is
Speaker 3: the only place in America where there's been a growth
Speaker 3: of demand and we're talking more than fifty percent in
Speaker 3: twenty years. We'll go in the detail of why and
Speaker 3: where new sources or you know, conservative that's all when
Speaker 3: i'm find But for me, that's the characteristic of Texas.
Speaker 3: It has been an area of incredible growth load and
Speaker 3: an area where the prices are much much cheaper than
Speaker 3: they used to be.
Speaker 1: Prices are cheaper and also all around, on top of that,
Speaker 1: the avoidance of infrastructure cost on your power bill, meaning
Speaker 1: what you pay for demand for the commercial and industrial
Speaker 1: class is much cheaper. There's no other market in the
Speaker 1: country where an industrial customer can curtail or run on
Speaker 1: site chen or use demand response assets where they can
Speaker 1: cut their annual transmission bill by twenty five to forty percent.
Speaker 1: And your overall power bill annualized over a year is
Speaker 1: set by your peak demand, and the way that the
Speaker 1: transmission system is built is set by the states or
Speaker 1: the grid's peak demand. So today in Texas, the peak
Speaker 1: demand that eighty plus gig number for today expected to double, right,
Speaker 1: just crazy, But that gets set by residential load, not
Speaker 1: by industrial load. Meanwhile, the residential customers in Texas pay
Speaker 1: coincident peak prices when they pay their power bill. However,
Speaker 1: the commercial and industrial folks get to benefit from a
Speaker 1: four coincident peak regime and therefore a transmission cost. If
Speaker 1: you can curtail the right for summer hours, essentially you
Speaker 1: can dodge most of the transmission charges, which is millions
Speaker 1: of dollars a year. There's other cool stuff too about
Speaker 1: Texas that makes it such a unique and fascinating market
Speaker 1: to enable what you're calling this growth in power consumption,
Speaker 1: and on the other side of it, the obvious economies
Speaker 1: of scale, All of that kind of like stems down
Speaker 1: into these key constructs.
Speaker 3: That grows fifty percent, which today make Texas consume more
Speaker 3: power than fronts despite having only half of the population.
Speaker 3: If you look at what has been the source of
Speaker 3: this additional general ration, it has been with solar and
Speaker 3: now of course batteries, and that is more than ninety
Speaker 3: percent of the additional load came from vulnerable And yes
Speaker 3: there's more gas production, but it's almost compensated by the
Speaker 3: diminishing of coal and nuclearized by a large flat. So
Speaker 3: really what that means is that Texas has become a
Speaker 3: vulnerable power state, And of course I understand that the
Speaker 3: Pacifical lobby is not very happy about that, especially considering
Speaker 3: the fact that if you look at the load factors
Speaker 3: of CCGTIS twenty years ago was forty five percent and
Speaker 3: last year it was only thirty two percent. So yeah,
Speaker 3: so they're not making any money. So of course they
Speaker 3: wanted to prevent them continue their growth, and of course
Speaker 3: it failed at the legislature, which is an excellent news.
Speaker 3: So is the future going to continue a bit like this?
Speaker 3: Like with a crazy amount of vulnerable or do you
Speaker 3: think gas can come back? What's your take on that?
Speaker 1: My soul will extend saying similar things about data centers
Speaker 1: and loads as well, is that we need to stop
Speaker 1: pretending and enforcing the narrative as technologists. We need to
Speaker 1: stop enforcing the narrative that in resource planning, meaning power planning,
Speaker 1: supply planning, markets should be modeled and forecasted and evaluated
Speaker 1: as equilibrams. We have to have tools for this process
Speaker 1: at solve for hourly demand and supply balancing, and we
Speaker 1: can't use tools that don't assume the volatility that is
Speaker 1: inherent in the system and don't value flexibility. You know, Lauren,
Speaker 1: I'm saying that because it is equally hard right now
Speaker 1: that investment is difficult. Equivalently, I think now in new
Speaker 1: gas as it is in new batteries, because the models
Speaker 1: are set up to solve for William straight and that's
Speaker 1: not what the market is in today. There's so many
Speaker 1: factors and interconnection, timing, supply of the turbines, timing for
Speaker 1: green field development, attainment versus non attainment, for environmental permitting.
Speaker 1: There's just like all of this over indexing, and it's
Speaker 1: just kind of bonkers.
Speaker 2: Wind and solar.
Speaker 1: The megawat hour base case for l COE for wind
Speaker 1: and solar is still like sixty bucks to megawatt hour
Speaker 1: for solar and like forty five for wind, and combined
Speaker 1: cycle is one hundred and thirty three bucks a megawatt hour.
Speaker 1: At the moment, that's nuts. I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: what's going on there? I mean, you know, the obvious
Speaker 1: answer I think there that one of the non market
Speaker 1: solves more for regulatory solve for more gas in Texas
Speaker 1: is the behind the meter co location benefit of CCGT
Speaker 1: with data center load a large load as they call it,
Speaker 1: seventy five megawatts or bigger. So going back to wind
Speaker 1: and solar, you know, the motivation for wind and solar
Speaker 1: anywhere is typically project finance and PPA with some part
Speaker 1: of the risk of what the plant can earn over
Speaker 1: its lifetime in a market construct. In Texas, we have
Speaker 1: an engine in this energy market that every five minutes,
Speaker 1: using secured economic dispatch as a tool, solves for transmission constraints.
Speaker 1: And then we also have this connect and managed ie.
Speaker 1: Every new developer of every new project isn't paying a
Speaker 1: carefully tooled cost causation contribution to building the transmission grid.
Speaker 1: And between those two things, what you get is a
Speaker 1: way for wind and solar to come onto the system
Speaker 1: and optimize the risk of curtailment, meaning how much they
Speaker 1: can make in the markets against ppa risk, which of
Speaker 1: course you can secure by actually having contracts in place
Speaker 1: to sell off the value of your portfolio. And that
Speaker 1: portfolio is more of the greenness of the portfolio than
Speaker 1: it is the windplant itself or the solar plant itself.
Speaker 1: Between those two things, I don't think cheap capital is
Speaker 1: lining up for anything other than renewables.
Speaker 6: Ruschi just again outside inview as this is as Europeans looking,
Speaker 6: and we look at Texas and it sort of reminds
Speaker 6: us of home. And what I mean by that is
Speaker 6: you've got a liberalized mark, You've separated the retailer from
Speaker 6: the grid from the generator, and you've also got this
Speaker 6: power market there that again is very similar to Europe.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 6: Can you talk a little bit about that, just so
Speaker 6: that listeners understand what the text is what makes the
Speaker 6: Texas market very special in the US.
Speaker 1: Yes, Texas in most of the state is under one
Speaker 1: grid operator, and that's very different than the rest of
Speaker 1: the country. So there's one entity that's over all of
Speaker 1: the poles and wires and power plants, and so there's
Speaker 1: the singularity inside which you as a consumer of power,
Speaker 1: you have the choice to choose where your power comes from,
Speaker 1: as in who you're buying it from, and that also
Speaker 1: means you have a lot more creativity in deciding as
Speaker 1: a consumer what kind of power you want. Do you
Speaker 1: want green power, do you not care? Do you just
Speaker 1: want the cheapest power? Do you have solar in a
Speaker 1: battery on your roof? When you want to be in
Speaker 1: a very special plan. Test the electric is an example
Speaker 1: of that kind of plan. And that's so different from
Speaker 1: the rest of the country because in the rest of
Speaker 1: the country, we really have one or two default choices
Speaker 1: for where to go get your power. And that's reflected
Speaker 1: on the other side too, for the folks who are
Speaker 1: building the power plants. To your point, the liberalized nature
Speaker 1: of Texas means that you can just choose to go
Speaker 1: in or coup. You can go inside that space and
Speaker 1: basically just choose to cite the plant wherever you want
Speaker 1: to put it. Yeah, there's always going to be admin
Speaker 1: and other things you have to do, and you've got
Speaker 1: to work with the local landowners and all those things.
Speaker 1: But it really is the pick your bet and then
Speaker 1: go and fulfill it, which is absolutely not how the
Speaker 1: rest of the country works, where you have very large
Speaker 1: utilities or maybe even very small utilities that essentially have
Speaker 1: Fiat authority around what you can do to cite your
Speaker 1: plant and bring it to the market, and Fiat authority
Speaker 1: on the other side too, which is as a consumer,
Speaker 1: who I can get my power from?
Speaker 6: Can I also sort of add to that Again, this
Speaker 6: is a perception is that in Texas you just seem
Speaker 6: to get things done much quicker than everywhere else, Right,
Speaker 6: is that the case?
Speaker 1: It is the getting things done quicker piece for both
Speaker 1: consumers and power plants is super interesting. For consumers if I,
Speaker 1: you know, you and I are on on like some
Speaker 1: power company plan that says, oh, you know, our bill
Speaker 1: is twelve kilowatts or whatever, and we're going to pay
Speaker 1: whatever we're going to pay for it, and we're not
Speaker 1: happy with our power usage versus how we're getting built
Speaker 1: under that plan everywhere else in the country retard. It
Speaker 1: can take either I can to move off of it,
Speaker 1: or it can take months of hassle for me to
Speaker 1: actually get reassigned if I am in a place that
Speaker 1: has some choice to find a new provider, and it's
Speaker 1: so much work and there's so much transition cost where
Speaker 1: the customer it's just not worth it. You know. In Texas,
Speaker 1: they're back end systems between the folks that run the
Speaker 1: big grid and the people in their homes who have
Speaker 1: their little electric meter on their house. Is so easy,
Speaker 1: the system is so well integrated. But I can switch tomorrow,
Speaker 1: I can switch within the hour, in a day. This
Speaker 1: is switchability where consumers can just decide, Nope, I'm not
Speaker 1: into this anymore. I will cancel my contract. And yes
Speaker 1: there may be penalties around early cancelation. Whatever I want
Speaker 1: to do my own thing. That is is completely unique.
Speaker 1: There's this really cool R Street publication on grading choice
Speaker 1: that came out our Street Institute in Washington, and they
Speaker 1: gave Texas an A minus on the report card and
Speaker 1: that's the best in the state. And after that, there's
Speaker 1: nothing else that has an A in the country. Ah.
Speaker 3: She When you're at Tesla, you've been instrumental in developing
Speaker 3: the old VPP and battery universe. Okay, Tesla probably is
Speaker 3: the most known name, but the growth of the battery
Speaker 3: in Texas in the past three or four years has
Speaker 3: been nothing but exceptionally so. Probably it's also in the
Speaker 3: aftermath of Yuri and the fact that nothing that was
Speaker 3: supposed to work worked. How do you see the incredible
Speaker 3: growth in the batteries and vvps we've seen in Texas
Speaker 3: compared to everywhere.
Speaker 1: Else with batteries. It's interesting. I think a battery is
Speaker 1: like a water cooler. The water cooler can be as
Speaker 1: big as you need for a party, but how fast
Speaker 1: you drain your water cooler depends on how many guests
Speaker 1: arrive at the party. When we think about batteries, there's
Speaker 1: this presumption in the rest of the US that, Okay,
Speaker 1: if this battery shows up, this water cooler shows up
Speaker 1: at my party, I'm going to end up draining it
Speaker 1: very very quickly. And in Texas, with a way that
Speaker 1: the economics of the market work, we actually drain that
Speaker 1: water cooler as if one guest is arriving every thirteen hours,
Speaker 1: meaning that the incremental value of sending power into the
Speaker 1: market to help solve four constraints in this very tight
Speaker 1: transparent energy market means that batteries, you can forecast the
Speaker 1: value of batteries to be a lot more of what
Speaker 1: batteries are good at, which is solving problems quickly. There's
Speaker 1: another side to that, Laurent, that is the opposite of
Speaker 1: solving problems quickly, and that is like the resiliency piece
Speaker 1: which you mentioned with winter storm ury, and that is
Speaker 1: on the residential side. People want batteries as economic security,
Speaker 1: as personal security, outage protection, and so for them, the
Speaker 1: way that I've seen the market for residential batteries evolve
Speaker 1: is not the version you see on the big grid.
Speaker 1: It's not the put systems that we know we can
Speaker 1: stretch out and earn a lot of money by fixing
Speaker 1: the markets problems in these quick intervals of time. It's
Speaker 1: the opposite problem. It's we want the battery in our
Speaker 1: house for resiliency. So that's why batteries on residential homes
Speaker 1: in Texas are getting bigger, and also people are getting
Speaker 1: smarter in how they use that battery in their choice
Speaker 1: world where you can choose which type of power provider
Speaker 1: you have to be able to optimize your battery, and
Speaker 1: when there is a power outage risk, your ability to
Speaker 1: conserve and habit insurance policy in your home is super important.
Speaker 1: You know Tesla's vision for VPP in Texas that I
Speaker 1: worked on implementation for from the work Tesla did first
Speaker 1: on VPP in Australia Australia BPP, then went California VPP next,
Speaker 1: and then Texas last.
Speaker 6: If I look really what text has done incredibly well.
Speaker 6: It's been able to obviously attract new industry to the
Speaker 6: state and also provide the energy that that those businesses need.
Speaker 6: And this is especially the case I see in the
Speaker 6: whole area of data centers. So I'd love to hear
Speaker 6: you're told in around data centers and AI and you
Speaker 6: know how you see that going forward.
Speaker 1: We're talking a lot today about what makes Texas different
Speaker 1: than the rest of the country. Another major feature of
Speaker 1: Texas is a place to put your data center. Is
Speaker 1: that it is far easier for you to put your
Speaker 1: generator or your insurance policy for your data center next
Speaker 1: door on the same plot of land with the same
Speaker 1: common connection to the big grid and another markets. In
Speaker 1: the US that's a lot harder because of how we
Speaker 1: actually pay for access to the grid between the consumer
Speaker 1: side and the power plant side. This word, by the way,
Speaker 1: is co location, which is pretty intuitive. Co location in
Speaker 1: Europe has been the result of countries like Ireland making
Speaker 1: a mandate I your grid, making a push to ensure
Speaker 1: that co location occurs. We're at a point at which
Speaker 1: new data centers can't show up without this co location existing.
Speaker 1: Across the rest of the US. We're in these strange,
Speaker 1: lightly litigious policy circles where everyone's trying to decide, like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: if the power plant and the data center are connect
Speaker 1: to each other, who's paying for what? How do we
Speaker 1: pay for it? And there's this incrementality that I talked
Speaker 1: about the beginning. In Texas, everyone is paying like when
Speaker 1: you get a stamp at the post office, you pay
Speaker 1: thirty two cents, just like the next guy behind you
Speaker 1: pay thirty two cents for that one stamp. That's how
Speaker 1: transmission or grid cost allocation works in Texas. And that
Speaker 1: complexity that we're simplifying here is like the thing that
Speaker 1: makes Texas so good for AI loads, And it's because
Speaker 1: there's the simplicity translates to the world of putting big
Speaker 1: power plants next two loads, and it'd being an easier
Speaker 1: time to get onto the grid without getting stuck in
Speaker 1: what you're hearing about in the news, which is that
Speaker 1: it takes like five years, seven years, ten years to
Speaker 1: get these big systems online and the rest of the country.
Speaker 3: Oh she As we come towards the end of this conversation,
Speaker 3: and of course team we took for hours. But a
Speaker 3: very simple question for you, which is pretty much what
Speaker 3: a lot of eye in Fasticto investors are asking us,
Speaker 3: is look, we see peakload going from saying ninety gigawat,
Speaker 3: which is already phenomenal, to one hundred and forty gigawatts
Speaker 3: in the convenios. Are you confident that the economics and
Speaker 3: the model will allow that blood growth in Texas?
Speaker 1: No, of course not, Laurent. If we have that kind
Speaker 1: of load growth where we assume that all of that
Speaker 1: load will be a firm meaning a twenty four to
Speaker 1: seven contributor to peak demand, we don't have any months
Speaker 1: left in the year for our power plants to take means,
Speaker 1: and if we can't maintain our power plants because in
Speaker 1: the year you're planning for consumption at peak for so
Speaker 1: many more days, for so much longer. At such a
Speaker 1: higher level, if you think about it like a mechanic
Speaker 1: with a toolbox, that person's job is to look at
Speaker 1: what's inside the toolbox and make sure that there are
Speaker 1: enough tools in there to fix all the problems that
Speaker 1: are coming. So the number of tools you have to
Speaker 1: go and make sure your power plant fleetworks are constrained,
Speaker 1: but the number of tools need to have to maintain
Speaker 1: the system to do its job as being reliable and
Speaker 1: there being enough power plant generation available to serve all
Speaker 1: of this peak load. You talked about URI, and in URI,
Speaker 1: one of the things that came out of that is weatherization,
Speaker 1: meaning making power plants more weather resilient, which means you
Speaker 1: have to go out and maintain them. So this kind
Speaker 1: of adulterated load growth forecast or peak demand is like
Speaker 1: the direct opposite of what policymakers told Texas power Plans
Speaker 1: to do, which is be even more conservative with their
Speaker 1: maintenance of the power fleet. And mind you, the power
Speaker 1: fleet that needs the most support to have enough headroom
Speaker 1: on the system to go and do all their maintenance
Speaker 1: is gas Plans. So I think that there's no way
Speaker 1: we get to a world in five ten years where
Speaker 1: we're looking at everything as peak demand contribution flexibility for
Speaker 1: both load and flexibility for the power plants making sure
Speaker 1: they can use the big grid and those non peak,
Speaker 1: non constrained windows is massively important because it solves this problem.
Speaker 3: When I was she thank you so much for coming
Speaker 3: on the show. There's clearly something happening in Texas and
Speaker 3: you're on top of it. Also, we want to sell
Speaker 3: you to do live in because remarkable and much more
Speaker 3: granular expert of what's going on there. So thank you
Speaker 3: very much.
Speaker 1: I'm delighted to be here. Thank you, path, thank you
Speaker 1: very much.
Speaker 3: Look, it's absolutely phenomenon. And what I think people don't
Speaker 3: realize is that also the all regulation works better. The
Speaker 3: regulators they regulate less, but they're smarter. And recently I've
Speaker 3: been looking even into stuff like demand response. Well, you
Speaker 3: know what, the demand response program in Texas is better
Speaker 3: than California and other states. So those people are just
Speaker 3: good when it comes to energally take good.
Speaker 2: Which is probably the reason why they basically from an
Speaker 2: energy point of view, stay independent or e rest of
Speaker 2: the United States, Right, I mean that's the reality. Ever,
Speaker 2: they've got low cost energy, and they can build things
Speaker 2: really quickly, and they can be really innovative.
Speaker 4: And then you look at the rest of the US
Speaker 4: and they've got federal regulators and just called local regulators
Speaker 4: and bureaucracy everywhere.
Speaker 2: The Texans just cult through it all.
Speaker 3: Right, there's a lot of places around the world which
Speaker 3: are blessed with a lot of resources, but it's not
Speaker 3: because you have resources. Yeah, I mean, look, I remember
Speaker 3: this a great quote from quite some time ago, and
Speaker 3: they asked the CEO of Excellent, what's the best company
Speaker 3: to manage? And you say, oh, yeah, the best companies
Speaker 3: in the world are well managed oil companies. And then
Speaker 3: he said, and then the second one will poorly manage
Speaker 3: oil companies. It's not because you're endowed these resources that
Speaker 3: you're not going to squander them. And the Texans have
Speaker 3: been extremely good at managing innovation. So I said to
Speaker 3: all regulators in the world, I know you like to
Speaker 3: write a lot of paper. I know you love to
Speaker 3: write six hundred pages regulation, but sometimes sometimes go to
Speaker 3: Texas and see what is going on and see.
Speaker 2: What works common sense and economics, that's what works.
Speaker 3: Okay, job, It was a great conversation with Thank Arushi
Speaker 3: and talk to you next week.
Speaker 2: Looking forward to it.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Redefining Energy.
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