WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.960 --> 00:00:05.919 Hello everybody, ladies, gentlemen, brothers, sisters, comrades, friends. Alexander von 2 00:00:05.960 --> 00:00:11.039 Sternberg here giving you another episode, another special interview episode 3 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:15.039 of History Impossible. You have no doubt seen who is 4 00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:18.440 featured on this episode, but I just want to say 5 00:00:18.600 --> 00:00:22.320 I am very happy to be joined this time with 6 00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:28.160 the celebrated journalist and fellow history podcaster Eli Lake, who 7 00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:30.480 I believe his main stint right now is at the 8 00:00:30.480 --> 00:00:32.600 Free Press, but he's written for all sorts of different 9 00:00:32.600 --> 00:00:36.200 publications over the years. He's been a correspondent in places 10 00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:40.119 as far flung and dangerous as Iraq during the Iraq War. 11 00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:42.679 We talk a little bit about that, actually, at least 12 00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:45.719 he references it. But yeah, I decided to have him 13 00:00:45.719 --> 00:00:51.759 on because he is a very very accomplished, very good podcaster. 14 00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:55.240 He is on that short list of podcasts other history 15 00:00:55.280 --> 00:00:58.520 podcasts that I listen to with his show Breaking History 16 00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:02.560 associated with the Free Press, And honestly, I've been, like 17 00:01:02.600 --> 00:01:04.599 I said, I've been listening to his show for a while. 18 00:01:04.680 --> 00:01:08.719 But what caught my ear was a recent re release 19 00:01:08.920 --> 00:01:12.879 of a two parter he did, I believe last year, 20 00:01:13.480 --> 00:01:16.560 where he talked about the birth of modern Iran and 21 00:01:16.599 --> 00:01:18.879 it was re released in light of all the chaos 22 00:01:18.920 --> 00:01:23.599 and tumult going on over there what appears, or at 23 00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:26.680 least appeared for a while to be quite possibly a 24 00:01:26.680 --> 00:01:31.439 second Iranian Revolution. Regardless, he did a great job with 25 00:01:31.599 --> 00:01:36.120 his podcast talking about how things got to the point 26 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:38.760 where there was a revolution in nineteen seventy nine and 27 00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:41.280 how it all fell apart, at least for those who 28 00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:44.879 were not on the side of the theocratic thugs under 29 00:01:44.879 --> 00:01:48.000 the I tol Komeni. And in the midst of that 30 00:01:48.680 --> 00:01:52.200 story that he told, he talked about the Red Green Alliance, 31 00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:56.120 which I thought paired very nicely with my recent special 32 00:01:56.120 --> 00:02:01.439 episode about the Brown Green or Green Brown Alliance, because honestly, 33 00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:04.159 there really doesn't seem to be a shortage of alliances 34 00:02:04.159 --> 00:02:08.759 of conveniences when it comes to Western political radicals suddenly 35 00:02:09.319 --> 00:02:14.439 deciding they're in love with Islam or Islamism. Even so, Yeah, 36 00:02:14.439 --> 00:02:16.960 we talked about that and it was a lot of 37 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:19.759 fun and it was all too brief. Hopefully we'll be 38 00:02:19.759 --> 00:02:23.120 able to do it again sometime. But anyway, that's what 39 00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:25.840 I have for you guys on tap today. I want 40 00:02:25.879 --> 00:02:28.960 to thank everybody who supports this show over on Patreon 41 00:02:29.159 --> 00:02:34.479 or sub stack, including my stalwart companions and friends John 42 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:37.360 Andre Saither and Mike Mayleban who continued to support me 43 00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:39.680 through all of this. I appreciate it to no end. 44 00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:43.520 If you guys want to support History Impossible, head over 45 00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:46.319 to Patreon dot com, slash History Impossible, or to just 46 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:50.560 history impossible dot com and become a paid subscriber there. 47 00:02:50.599 --> 00:02:51.000 Today. 48 00:02:51.759 --> 00:02:54.039 I appreciate all the help I can get. We're on 49 00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:59.360 the final stretch of grad school for me, so you 50 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:01.000 know the dead It's going to have to get paid 51 00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:02.919 at some point soon, so it will really help me 52 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:05.759 out here. And I'm actually really excited to share with 53 00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:07.960 all of you what I'm working on for this final 54 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:11.479 semester of research that I'm doing, not including of course, 55 00:03:11.560 --> 00:03:14.240 my thesis. It's a lot of fun. It was actually 56 00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:17.280 going to be a substack piece, but then I became 57 00:03:17.319 --> 00:03:20.240 obsessed and I realized there's a lot there. So we'll 58 00:03:20.280 --> 00:03:26.400 be getting a proper deep dive, properly cited analysis of 59 00:03:26.479 --> 00:03:27.879 what I'm looking at. And I'm not going to say 60 00:03:27.879 --> 00:03:32.080 anything else, but anyway, without further ado, let's get into 61 00:03:32.120 --> 00:03:34.240 some impossible history with Eli Lake. 62 00:03:36.159 --> 00:03:37.759 Let me to tell you what you would have seen 63 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:40.599 and heard, if we'll not be pleasant listening, if you 64 00:03:40.599 --> 00:03:42.439 were at lunch, or if you have no appetite now 65 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:43.879 it is a good time to switch author. 66 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:53.199 Radio, an ancestor mine maintained. If you eliminate the impossible, 67 00:03:53.400 --> 00:04:01.919 whatever remains, however improbable, you don't know. I don't know 68 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:07.879 without an impious I wish I could say tonight that 69 00:04:07.960 --> 00:04:12.080 a lasting peace is inside. I don't feel the aloughing dream. 70 00:04:12.199 --> 00:04:13.240 I feel a lot in. 71 00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:14.199 Night wore. 72 00:04:18.360 --> 00:04:22.480 On. If we share fresshure to guilt, if we share 73 00:04:22.519 --> 00:04:23.399 for assure to guill. 74 00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:27.879 Some say the world will end empire, some stay a night. 75 00:04:28.519 --> 00:04:30.759 From what I've tasted of desire. 76 00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:32.120 I hold of those of favor fire. 77 00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:35.560 But if it had to perish twice, I think I 78 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:38.959 know enough of hate to say that the destruction nights 79 00:04:39.160 --> 00:04:49.879 is also great and would suffice. This is history and possible, 80 00:04:54.560 --> 00:04:58.360 all right. I'm here with the accomplished and awesome writer 81 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:03.040 and reporter for various publications, including The Daily but Daily Beasts, 82 00:05:03.079 --> 00:05:06.720 excuse Me, Newsweek, Bloomberg, and now the Free Press, Eli 83 00:05:06.839 --> 00:05:10.160 Lake and for our purposes. He is the host of 84 00:05:10.199 --> 00:05:13.800 the Breaking History podcast, one of the few podcasts I 85 00:05:13.879 --> 00:05:17.079 am able to listen to at this point in my wheelhouse, 86 00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:20.759 and I I really love it, and thank you again 87 00:05:20.959 --> 00:05:23.199 for joining me, Eli, I really appreciate it. 88 00:05:24.319 --> 00:05:26.000 My pleasure, Alex, thanks for having me. 89 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:29.240 Yeah, so let's just talk a little bit, just do 90 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:31.319 a little bit of a in case somehow people don't 91 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:36.000 know breaking history if memory serves. The genesis for breaking 92 00:05:36.079 --> 00:05:42.040 history was actually your previous podcast, The re Education. Yeah yeah, 93 00:05:42.079 --> 00:05:44.240 and you did get into history and politics, you know, 94 00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:48.120 relatively often there too. I actually remember, I don't think 95 00:05:48.120 --> 00:05:49.439 it was the first one I listened to, because I 96 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:51.319 definitely was listening to you a little bit before that. 97 00:05:51.399 --> 00:05:59.759 But your your epic on the Church Commission was oh yeah, yeah, 98 00:05:59.800 --> 00:06:01.759 I honestly want to go back and re listen to 99 00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:04.279 it because there's just so much there. I mean, honestly, 100 00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:07.759 mid twentieth century history does seem to be somewhat your wheelhouse. 101 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:09.879 So and that really well. 102 00:06:10.040 --> 00:06:13.680 Yeah, I like that. But I have to say I 103 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:18.920 did one on the mccabees and for the re Education, 104 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:21.319 which I really enjoyed. I did a one on the 105 00:06:21.399 --> 00:06:26.279 Roman Republic for they honestly feed what was kind of 106 00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:30.920 a it was a pro to breaking history. So you're right, 107 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:34.360 I do tend to focus on twentieth century, but I'm 108 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:36.560 interested in other stuff. We did one on the Opium War, 109 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:42.040 which is nineteenth century, and I've got some things planned 110 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:45.560 for twenty twenty six where we're definitely going to be 111 00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:47.959 in the twentieth century for the first mini season of 112 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:50.360 Breaking History, which will be out in May, which is 113 00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:52.160 we're going to do a different format now, so we'll 114 00:06:52.199 --> 00:06:54.560 do kind of a deep dive with five or six 115 00:06:54.600 --> 00:07:01.000 episodes on a singular topic. But you know, I just 116 00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:03.399 like history, and what I like to say is I'm 117 00:07:03.399 --> 00:07:06.000 not an historian. I have a lot of respect for 118 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:11.240 the good ones, but like Dan Carlin says on Hardcore History, 119 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:14.480 which is like one of my inspirations, and same here. 120 00:07:15.199 --> 00:07:17.279 Love Dan Carlin, but what he says is, you know, 121 00:07:17.399 --> 00:07:19.680 I'm not an historian, but I read the best and 122 00:07:19.720 --> 00:07:21.959 I try to do that. And like Carlin, I'm a 123 00:07:22.040 --> 00:07:25.040 journalist and I take a journalist approach to history. So 124 00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:27.720 I have skills as a journalist and I'm a writer. 125 00:07:28.199 --> 00:07:30.480 I think I'm a pretty good storyteller, and what I 126 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:33.160 like to do is kind of take those skills and 127 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:37.240 use them and apply the skepticism that I've learned, you know, 128 00:07:39.319 --> 00:07:42.920 of a in my very long career as a journalist. 129 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:44.680 I'm now fifty three and I've been doing it since 130 00:07:44.680 --> 00:07:47.560 I was I guess in college, so that's you know, 131 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:52.160 more than thirty years and applying it to like history 132 00:07:52.199 --> 00:07:54.439 but not one of the things I don't want to 133 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:57.360 do is like the and that's the story of or 134 00:07:57.399 --> 00:07:59.800 isn't this interesting? Or like you know, I like to 135 00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:02.279 so what history, what breaking history is trying to do? 136 00:08:02.839 --> 00:08:05.360 And I think we accomplished it in most of more episodes. 137 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:06.839 And when when we're at our best is we like 138 00:08:06.879 --> 00:08:11.000 to say, Okay, this is something that is bedeviling us 139 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:13.040 right now, that's kind of in the news, and here's 140 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:15.079 the context of that. This is where it goes back. 141 00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:19.000 So you know, I don't know, like to give some 142 00:08:19.079 --> 00:08:23.160 examples from last year, you know, when we when it 143 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:25.279 looked like it was pretty clear a mom Donnie was 144 00:08:25.319 --> 00:08:28.079 going to be the first socialist mayor or real socialist, 145 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:30.920 I mean, I should say David Dinkins was technically a 146 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:33.480 member of the DSA, but he ran as a Democrat. 147 00:08:34.360 --> 00:08:36.480 I did a story kind of the history of the 148 00:08:36.519 --> 00:08:39.759 Democratic Socialist of America and actually the episode was the 149 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:44.240 history of socialism in America, and we spent a lot 150 00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:46.879 of time looking at Michael Harrington, and that was very 151 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:50.639 satisfying because it was like a way of understanding, you know, Okay, 152 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:52.559 who is this guy who is about to be the 153 00:08:52.559 --> 00:08:53.240 mayor of New York. 154 00:08:53.480 --> 00:08:56.879 Yeah, we get these highs and lows with the Democratic 155 00:08:56.919 --> 00:08:58.960 Socialists too, and a lot. I mean, if I remember right, 156 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:03.519 one of the founders of the party has really come 157 00:09:03.559 --> 00:09:07.000 out hard against the direction it's been going in am 158 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:08.480 I remembering that correctly. 159 00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:10.480 Yeah, that is correct. Maurice Issermon, who is the biographer 160 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:13.679 Michael Michael Harrington's basically the founder of the party, Okay. 161 00:09:13.720 --> 00:09:15.679 And Maurice Userman, who was one of his you know, 162 00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:21.559 protegees and also his biographer, left the dsay after October 163 00:09:21.559 --> 00:09:26.519 seventh because the Democratic Socialism of America could not bring 164 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:30.759 themselves to condemn a pug rum. 165 00:09:30.919 --> 00:09:32.960 Which we'll be getting into in a little bit, I think. 166 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:35.600 But yeah, by the way, just as we're finding now, 167 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:37.519 I mean, I think you have to sort of distinguish 168 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:42.120 between the tanky left and the you know, feel good left, 169 00:09:42.840 --> 00:09:44.879 and I think that there's that you're seeing. The tanky 170 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:47.399 left has nothing to say about the massacres in Iran. 171 00:09:47.440 --> 00:09:52.120 In fact, no, their worst, the worst tankies in the 172 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:57.720 in the Western Left, like Max Blumenthal, are just regurgitating, 173 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:03.000 vomiting up the lies and propaganda of the regime itself 174 00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:07.440 justifying this. I don't want to like, you know, we 175 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:11.080 don't really have numbers. We have estimates, but some estimates 176 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:15.200 are higher than thirty thousand in literally two days. That 177 00:10:15.320 --> 00:10:21.000 is kind of a number. Now, Yeah, I mean I can't. 178 00:10:21.039 --> 00:10:22.360 I don't know what to do. I mean, listen, I 179 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:24.200 don't need to know the numbers. I know, I know 180 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:26.919 I have enough credible reports of what they're doing. They're 181 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:30.360 literally going into the hospitals and killing the wounded. They're 182 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:32.759 charging the families for the bodies of their loved ones, 183 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:36.639 and they're having them sort through un marked body bags 184 00:10:36.679 --> 00:10:39.480 to find the corpses of their family members. Is absolutely 185 00:10:39.559 --> 00:10:45.519 disgusting and not to put not to say it too graphically, Alex, 186 00:10:45.559 --> 00:10:50.080 but I mean Kamenee and his henchmen deserve to be 187 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:54.759 hanging from the same crane they use to execute dissonance. Yeah, 188 00:10:55.120 --> 00:10:58.519 that would be an appropriate end to that, to those monsters, 189 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:00.240 to those demons. 190 00:11:00.440 --> 00:11:03.360 Yeah, I yeah, And that's the thing I mean I 191 00:11:03.399 --> 00:11:05.080 did want to talk I mean, because you know, part 192 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:06.679 of what I wanted to talk to you about was 193 00:11:06.759 --> 00:11:11.240 related to this. You know, when I say ongoing issue 194 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:14.039 with Iran, I mean ongoing since nineteen seventy nine. But 195 00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:16.480 I mean it's especially when talking about the stuff that's 196 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:18.840 been happening in the last month or so. It's just 197 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:21.600 we don't there's no way to make that a conversation 198 00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:23.799 about that evergreen in a way except to just say, 199 00:11:23.879 --> 00:11:27.200 as of now, which is right now, it's January thirtieth, 200 00:11:27.240 --> 00:11:31.039 there are, as you say, tens of thousands of dead people. 201 00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:33.360 We don't even know the extent of what's going on, 202 00:11:33.799 --> 00:11:36.120 you know, there yet, but as you say, you have 203 00:11:36.159 --> 00:11:38.080 a very good idea of the character of it and 204 00:11:38.279 --> 00:11:42.200 the general scale of it, which is yeah, so but yeah, 205 00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:44.200 I you know, I was thinking about this, and I 206 00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:46.960 made a note about this, and we are kind of 207 00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:50.240 talking about the contemporary moment. What do you make of 208 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:56.559 this sudden recent ish turn of democratic politicians, including Mom Donnie, 209 00:11:56.879 --> 00:12:00.919 but also AOC and everybody just seeming to very quickly 210 00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:05.559 coalesced around this condemnation of anti Semitism that they couldn't 211 00:12:05.559 --> 00:12:07.559 really seem to bring themselves to do for the past 212 00:12:07.559 --> 00:12:09.960 two years or so that I mean that is it 213 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:11.960 just mid term syndrome. I mean, that's kind of what 214 00:12:12.039 --> 00:12:15.879 I first assumed. But it did feel very coordinated in 215 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:20.000 a way which I hesitate to use that words. It 216 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:23.559 feels conspiratorial. But it just was so sudden and seemingly 217 00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:24.120 out of nowhere. 218 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:29.279 Notice all first of all, that that I appreciate that 219 00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:30.879 what you did there is the opposite of what a 220 00:12:30.919 --> 00:12:35.639 conspiracy theorist would do, which is to say something looks amiss. 221 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:40.440 When you see so many Democratic politicians who were uh 222 00:12:40.879 --> 00:12:46.679 not critical of the sort of I don't know whatever 223 00:12:46.759 --> 00:12:50.799 the leftist route, the leftist uh you know. 224 00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:52.919 The Red Green Alliance will be getting to in a 225 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:53.480 little bit. 226 00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:57.320 Yeah, right, And and then now they sort of are saying, 227 00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:00.519 wait a second, you guys are have have i'd saying 228 00:13:00.519 --> 00:13:04.159 you love hamas and queens? What Now? Some of that 229 00:13:04.279 --> 00:13:08.960 is just like a kind of like it's politicians, especially 230 00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:12.279 members of the House, but anyone who has to stand 231 00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:15.120 for an election has to in some way have their 232 00:13:15.159 --> 00:13:18.960 finger and be aware of the shifts in popular opinions. 233 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:21.919 So they may be reflecting that it's the gouse of 234 00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:25.759 war is not in the news every day. The image 235 00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:27.720 that you know, TikTok is now under I guess a 236 00:13:27.799 --> 00:13:30.159 kind of different We'll see if it's a different algorithm, 237 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:33.840 but it's a different ownership. At least in America, there 238 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:37.440 are certain factors that you know, people who are seeking 239 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:40.320 political careers where they have to appeal to voters are saying, well, 240 00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:43.799 wait a second, maybe this isn't cost free. Yet at 241 00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:49.120 the same time, there is still a pretty like that, 242 00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:51.399 you know, I take what you said. But then there's 243 00:13:51.399 --> 00:13:54.759 this activist base which is you know, taking over the 244 00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:59.399 institutions and Democratics party and also in you know, the 245 00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:03.840 state local governments of very blue areas of the country, 246 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:09.960 and they're imposing purity tests on lots of politicians, so 247 00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:12.240 they're not stopping. And it's it reminds me a little 248 00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:15.080 bit of the trans thing where, you know, we saw 249 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:20.360 after the twenty twenty four election, Seth Moulton of Massachusetts 250 00:14:20.919 --> 00:14:23.000 right come out and say. 251 00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:26.840 You know what, I he took the seventy position. 252 00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:30.600 Yeah, maybe biological men shouldn't be competing in women's sports, 253 00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:34.279 even if they say they're girl. He was killed for that. 254 00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:36.559 He's they were going to primary him, they were going 255 00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:40.720 to go after him. And what Moulton did is something 256 00:14:40.759 --> 00:14:44.039 that Rocanna also did. He did was he said, okay, 257 00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:48.240 I'm he didn't quite back away from his trans position, 258 00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:51.559 but then he said he now is the guy who's like, 259 00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:54.879 I want to take a red scent from APAC. I 260 00:14:54.879 --> 00:14:56.879 have mixed feelings on APAC at this point, which is 261 00:14:56.879 --> 00:14:59.960 a separate issue, but that was clearly a soop to 262 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:03.519 the same crowd. Now, my view of it is is 263 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:07.240 that there's something else. There's a third factor here in 264 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:10.159 addition to all of them, and that is that Gaza 265 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:17.240 between twenty twenty three and twenty and probably I would say, 266 00:15:17.320 --> 00:15:21.279 you know, yeah, when twenty twenty five after the ceasefire, 267 00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:24.039 you had two years where that was the insta cause, 268 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:28.480 that was the Omnibus, the Omni cause, the instacause, right, 269 00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:34.559 and now the Omni cause is ice in our cities now, 270 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:39.159 you know like it? And that means and the difference 271 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:41.879 between an Omni cause and then like a plank of 272 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:45.559 my progressive agenda. Because we're human beings. And if you 273 00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:48.320 are on the left, you can say, well, I hate Israel, 274 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:53.120 I hate the Ice, I like the trans open borders 275 00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:55.720 and these are my issues. But the thing about an 276 00:15:55.720 --> 00:16:00.960 omni cause is that it's an emergency. It's a crisis. 277 00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:04.519 And if you are talking about anything other than the crisis, 278 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:06.440 but that I love that phrase. You see it on 279 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:10.600 social media now all the time. Don't stop talking about Gaza, 280 00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:13.279 or don't stop talking about Iran, which I agree, don't 281 00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:15.639 stop talking about it r on. But that's the point 282 00:16:15.639 --> 00:16:18.120 of that, is that, like, there's no room to talk 283 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:22.399 about climate change when there is a so called genocide 284 00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:26.759 in Gaza, and there's no room to talk about Gaza 285 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:33.639 when Gestapo Trump forces are in our cities. And so 286 00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:36.799 that's the thing, is that if it's it's not just 287 00:16:36.840 --> 00:16:38.480 that this is an issue that we agree on in 288 00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:41.519 this part of our agenda and you can you can 289 00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:44.440 read it in our convention or whatever. No, this is 290 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:46.200 the only thing that we can talk about. And that's 291 00:16:46.279 --> 00:16:49.519 the that's the kind of problem now we see and 292 00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:52.080 and in every single one of these cases, obviously it's 293 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:55.720 more complicated, Obviously it's more nuanced. Obviously it's a very 294 00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:58.600 slanted view of things. I mean, it's still is amazing 295 00:16:58.600 --> 00:17:00.320 to me. And it's the power of that horrible video 296 00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:03.480 of George Floyd in twenty twenty. Yeah, but that was 297 00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:09.400 then taken to mean that every police department in the 298 00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:15.319 country was hunting black men. There that is that's a lie. 299 00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:19.119 That's just not statistically speaking, it doesn't even register. 300 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:21.720 Not even statistic It's been it's Roland Fryar, the. 301 00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:23.440 Harvard Economy Roll and Friary. 302 00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:25.200 You can look at all of these things and you 303 00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:26.799 can go through it and you can say, wait a second, 304 00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:30.279 that's just not true, and you can still think what 305 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:32.640 happened to George Floyd was horrible, which it was. 306 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:35.319 I think like ninety eight percent of people probably agree. 307 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:38.480 Yeah, right, So, but what I'm saying is that, like 308 00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:40.960 oftentimes with the instant, with the with the omni cause, 309 00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:45.559 what happens is that because you kind of get people 310 00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:51.559 who get into crisis inflation and therefore distort a problem 311 00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:56.000 way out of proportion, the kinds of policies that they 312 00:17:56.119 --> 00:18:01.000 end up sort of supporting to address this crisis end 313 00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:05.240 up being deeply unpopular. Girls. I mean, the crisis that 314 00:18:05.319 --> 00:18:11.119 created the transgender youth moral panic was the idea that 315 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:15.599 if you did not provide what they would call healthcare 316 00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:20.000 to an eleven year old, that it was unclear about 317 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:23.240 what their gender identity was. Then they would commit suicide. 318 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:30.640 So you were condemning that adolescent to you know, misery depression, 319 00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:33.960 they would kill themselves. There was no evidence really for that. 320 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:37.039 In fact, there's probably more evidence that people who get 321 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:40.559 surgery or take hormones or so forth sometimes end up 322 00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:44.519 being much sadder and more depressed, and sometimes that won't 323 00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:46.039 be the reason why they take their own lives. But 324 00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:49.519 there was no real data to back that up. But 325 00:18:49.640 --> 00:18:52.119 it was enough. That was a statistic that was a 326 00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:55.279 kind of so called a fake fact that was then 327 00:18:55.440 --> 00:19:00.000 used to justify a series of wildly unpopular, ridiculous probably 328 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:05.920 similar with George Floyd, the idea that any political party 329 00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:11.599 would indulge, let alone endorse, defund the police. That's insane, 330 00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:16.519 That's an insane thing to do. And I went so much. 331 00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:18.279 Well, I just want to say, I don't want to 332 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:19.880 give too much credit to it, but I don't think 333 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:22.480 we can underrate the effect of the pandemic. I think 334 00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:26.079 that pandemics tend to have a deranging quality to them 335 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:29.319 that gets underappreciated, especially throughout history, and I think that 336 00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:33.119 that helped accelerate such things. But at the same time. 337 00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:35.319 But it was also it's also a social media thing. 338 00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:37.799 It's like a right exactly exactly. 339 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:39.599 In the eure of social media, where we candense every 340 00:19:39.799 --> 00:19:44.079 thought an argument to two hundred and forty four characters. Right, 341 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:46.200 that's another part of it. 342 00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:49.799 Can we kind of extend this because I like what 343 00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:52.920 you're saying here, because I do think it's very apt 344 00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:56.920 in like talking about how people create omni causes, especially 345 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:00.359 it's been kind of a feature of American left of 346 00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:04.400 center politics for I mean, I'm just gonna just say 347 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:06.400 ten years, last ten years or so, but I mean 348 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:09.440 it's probably been longer than that, at least at a 349 00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:13.359 cultural level. But it does kind of seem like that 350 00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:16.680 that fever is taken hold on the American right to 351 00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:20.279 a certain degree too, when it comes to things like 352 00:20:20.359 --> 00:20:24.720 ice rates, like that's becoming a very unpopular thing that's 353 00:20:24.759 --> 00:20:27.440 been going on, Except when you start to break it down, 354 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:29.720 it's like the original sort of claim was we're going 355 00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:31.200 to go after the worst of the worst. That's like 356 00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:34.359 an eighty five ninety percent approval for something like that. 357 00:20:34.759 --> 00:20:37.599 But then you get to like, you know, snashing up 358 00:20:37.640 --> 00:20:40.119 a five year old you know, no one wants to 359 00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:42.960 see that you get this, you see the people getting killed, 360 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:46.000 And I should tell you my hometown is Minneapolis, actually, 361 00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:48.079 so I mean, I know exactly where all this stuff 362 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:52.400 has been going down, and no one, especially anyone back there. 363 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:56.839 But no one really except for the most performative types 364 00:20:56.880 --> 00:20:59.680 on X that I've seen, seem to really like what 365 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:02.559 they're scene there. So I'm just wondering if this, like 366 00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:05.039 maybe we can call it, I like you call it 367 00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:12.960 uh inflation, Yeah, crisis inflation. Crisis inflation, right, omni cause 368 00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:17.799 uh formation That seems to be kind of a feature 369 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:22.799 of I guess we could call it radical politics these days, 370 00:21:23.240 --> 00:21:26.799 or maybe performative politics radical than usual. 371 00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:29.799 And again it becomes I think it's a little different 372 00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:35.480 because it's like radical politics and the cheap because real 373 00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:39.000 radicals there's a certain kind of revolutionary discipline that a 374 00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:42.400 real radical would have that none of these people do. 375 00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:44.079 A lot of it is performative, a lot of it 376 00:21:44.119 --> 00:21:46.440 is like, you know, it's the black box, it's the 377 00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:50.960 black square in your social media profile, it's the it's 378 00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:53.599 the uh you know in this house sign on your 379 00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:59.640 lawn orgies right or on the right, it's it's you know, 380 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.519 like going along with ice or whatever the I mean 381 00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:07.200 in this case, it was a classic matter of you 382 00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:10.759 can't keep lying when you have video evidence. Yeah, and 383 00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:15.759 you can't call everybody a domestic terrorist and that it 384 00:22:15.799 --> 00:22:18.279 was just it's just I mean, like the behavior of 385 00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:26.680 Christinome and Stephen Miller is just abominable and embarrassing. And 386 00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:31.319 you know, if I am not a I don't I'm 387 00:22:31.319 --> 00:22:33.519 not a strident like never Trumper. In fact, I've I've 388 00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:36.279 written things about how I've written a lot about the 389 00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:39.039 law fair against Trump and how Unfarah was and Russia Gate. 390 00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:43.279 And but at the same time, this is an administration that 391 00:22:43.400 --> 00:22:47.759 has like no problem just lying. I mean like it 392 00:22:47.799 --> 00:22:50.160 was a lie. I mean, renee Good is a domestic terrorist. 393 00:22:50.160 --> 00:22:54.599 That's insane and it's uh and and and I think 394 00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:57.960 it caught up with them because the video so clearly 395 00:22:58.039 --> 00:23:00.599 showed that it wasn't that. And like know you can 396 00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:03.799 have I'm I have a somewhat nance nuanced view of 397 00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:07.680 Alex pretty at this point, which is like, uh, he 398 00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:12.400 seemed to have been an activist for sure, and uh, 399 00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:17.279 some of his tactics were designed, as many activists do, 400 00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:22.240 to provoke confrontation with law enforcement. But that's not a crime, 401 00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:25.559