Speaker 1: Now one of your pudding. I got a string going
Speaker 1: on here, something just because my dog. Something killed your dog,
Speaker 1: my dog. We're flying through the or over the tree.
Speaker 1: I don't know how it did it, Okay, damn, I'm
Speaker 1: really confused. All I saw was my dog coming over
Speaker 1: the fence and he was dead. And once you hit
Speaker 1: the ground like, I didn't see any cars. All I
Speaker 1: saw was my dog coming over the fence. What are
Speaker 1: you putting? We got some wonder or something crawling around
Speaker 1: out here? Did you see what it was?
Speaker 2: Or was it was?
Speaker 1: Standing enough? I'm out here looking through the window now
Speaker 1: and I don't see anything. I don't want to go outside.
Speaker 1: Jesus quice you better Hello, hit the boddy out here.
Speaker 1: What quent on out there? I thought of a bit
Speaker 1: just about second foot nine? I don't know. Easy announce there, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm booking right.
Speaker 3: Hey, all right, folks on to welcome our guest to
Speaker 3: the show. It is Seth from Connecticut. Welcome to the
Speaker 3: show man.
Speaker 2: How do you Riyan?
Speaker 3: Nice to meet you you too, man, I've been looking
Speaker 3: forward to this conversation. I appreciate you reaching out, I
Speaker 3: appreciate you listening to the show. So let's get it
Speaker 3: right into it. UT's talk about this bigfoot thing. What
Speaker 3: in the world got you interested in the subject to
Speaker 3: begin with?
Speaker 4: Oh, man, I've.
Speaker 2: Been interested in bigfoot as long as my memory goes back.
Speaker 2: I was always interested in NeSSI and the Abominable Snowman
Speaker 2: and stuff growing up. Growing up in the eighties, I
Speaker 2: saw enough scary movies was Bigfoot in him. What really
Speaker 2: got me started is my dad got me a book
Speaker 2: about Albert Austman at his encounter and being kidnapped, and
Speaker 2: that just blew my mind, because up until then I
Speaker 2: really only thought of abominable Snowman, not really so much
Speaker 2: bigfoot in the backyard kind of scenarios here. That encounter
Speaker 2: just blew line and got me on it, and I've
Speaker 2: really never put it down since then. And that was
Speaker 2: probably ten eleven years old. I'm forty two now, still going.
Speaker 3: It's a lifelong obsession for most of us. I think
Speaker 3: let's talk a little bit about the Albert Osman thing.
Speaker 3: We're going to get into. You've had some experiences with
Speaker 3: some weird stuff. I know your dad had an experience
Speaker 3: with a sasquatch. We'll get to that. But let's talk
Speaker 3: a little bit about this Albert Osman thing. That is
Speaker 3: one of the most fascinating accounts that I think I
Speaker 3: have personally ever read. And I've done entire episodes on
Speaker 3: this show and some of the other podcasts that I
Speaker 3: host about that particular story because it is one of
Speaker 3: the most fascinating, in my opinion, bigfoot stories that's ever
Speaker 3: been told. I think it was back in nineteen twenty four,
Speaker 3: so it's around the same time that the Ape Canyon
Speaker 3: event happened. The thing about Albert Osman's story was I
Speaker 3: have never outside of I think there's one story that
Speaker 3: I've covered in history back in the day. I don't
Speaker 3: remember when it was a lady that had said she
Speaker 3: was kidnapped or somebody saw her being kidnapped by a bigfoot.
Speaker 3: But Albert Osman's story is very unique in a lot
Speaker 3: of ways. But for somebody to be accosted and kidnapped
Speaker 3: by one of these creatures and then spend this much
Speaker 3: time with them and then have to escape and then
Speaker 3: come back to tell the story, it is one of
Speaker 3: the most fascinating accounts I've ever heard. So let's talk
Speaker 3: a little bit about what fascinated you about it when
Speaker 3: you were introduced to it. What was your initial thoughts
Speaker 3: about the story when you read it, and then once
Speaker 3: you reread it and got into it over and over,
Speaker 3: and then you got into the subject a little more.
Speaker 3: Comparing it to some of the other things that people
Speaker 3: have talked about as far as their experiences, what did
Speaker 3: that say to you about his experience? Do you believe
Speaker 3: that experience? Do you think it was possibly partly true?
Speaker 3: Tell me any and everything you want to talk about.
Speaker 3: As far as the Albert Osman story.
Speaker 2: He stuck to his story for so many years and
Speaker 2: he was still saying the exact same story up on
Speaker 2: his deathbed. I really see what he had to gain
Speaker 2: from lying about a story for that many years. And
Speaker 2: then that some of the details he talked about trying
Speaker 2: to remember the story, but like the younger bigfoots scooting
Speaker 2: around their butts while they were playing, he would just
Speaker 2: come up with that as a hoax. That doesn't make
Speaker 2: any sense to me. That's like something you had to
Speaker 2: have seen somewhere at least.
Speaker 4: And then just the.
Speaker 2: Interactions with the family, like the mother seemed upset with
Speaker 2: the father for bringing him and all that the father bigfoot,
Speaker 2: then the children's interest in his belongings. There's a lot
Speaker 2: of details there and what food they were bringing him
Speaker 2: to try to eat, but he didn't want to eat.
Speaker 2: It was some kind of like liking or something they
Speaker 2: were eating.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I tell you, I've tried to put myself in
Speaker 3: his position over the years. Imagine waking up in a
Speaker 3: potato sack, basically being carried by a seven to eight
Speaker 3: foot tall God knows how much this thing weighed, creature
Speaker 3: that's literally carrying you through the woods. It has absolutely
Speaker 3: blown my mind. And he had a weapon of some
Speaker 3: sort in the bag with him. I believe that he
Speaker 3: couldn't reach it because of the way that he was
Speaker 3: positioned in the bag and this thing was carrying him.
Speaker 3: It is just one of the most fascinating things. And
Speaker 3: I've seen his actual interview. You can search it on
Speaker 3: Google and find it on the internet, and I think
Speaker 3: there's a full YouTube channel with his entire account as
Speaker 3: he told it. And you watch this guy and it's
Speaker 3: clear that in my opinion, and I've interviewed a lot
Speaker 3: of people, it appears to me that he's sincere about
Speaker 3: this encounter. That's what happened, the way that he remembers
Speaker 3: it happening, is the way that he's sharing it. And
Speaker 3: I think the one thing that stood out to me
Speaker 3: was that he waited quite a while. And some people
Speaker 3: have talked about that this happened in nineteen twenty four,
Speaker 3: and I think he waited a decade or two before
Speaker 3: he actually come out and told anybody about the story.
Speaker 3: And some people have pointed to that and said, why
Speaker 3: did this guy wait so long to tell his story.
Speaker 3: I think that's something that happens a lot. I was
Speaker 3: working on the show today and I was working on
Speaker 3: putting together some of the narrations that I do over
Speaker 3: on Backwoods Bigfoot Stories, one of the other podcasts that
Speaker 3: I host, and I was narrating some stories, and these
Speaker 3: are people that their encounter happens in nineteen fifty two
Speaker 3: in some cases, and they wait until they're in their
Speaker 3: eighties to email people like me in twenty twenty six
Speaker 3: and say, hey, this happened to me, and you're the
Speaker 3: only person I've ever told about it. So that's one
Speaker 3: of those things that has stuck out to me over
Speaker 3: the years that has really made me go towards believing
Speaker 3: that story. Because initially, when I heard the Albert Osman
Speaker 3: story and when I heard Ape Canyon. I thought they
Speaker 3: were two very hard to believe stories. I don't know
Speaker 3: any other way to put it other than saying they
Speaker 3: were hard to believe.
Speaker 4: But the guys in Abe.
Speaker 3: Canyon immediately came down the mountain and then went straight to
Speaker 3: a bar and started telling people. That's how their story
Speaker 3: got out. They didn't go and start talking to the
Speaker 3: news people. They were telling people at the bar while
Speaker 3: they were drinking some whiskey. That's how their story got spilled.
Speaker 3: I don't remember exactly how Albert Osman eventually told his story,
Speaker 3: but it was very different in that way, because these
Speaker 3: guys came down, they were scared. This has just happened,
Speaker 3: and then the story gets out. And obviously, people like
Speaker 3: Mark Marcell, Cliff Barrackman, plenty of people have been out
Speaker 3: to that site and have actually proven that there was
Speaker 3: a cabin there, and there's a lot of things. I
Speaker 3: did an entire chapter on that particular story in my
Speaker 3: first book, and Mark Marcell sent me some of the
Speaker 3: photos from some of his recent excavations out in the
Speaker 3: site where Ape Canyon took place. So there is a
Speaker 3: physical history there. They found the mind, they found the
Speaker 3: remnants of the cabin. But poor Albert really didn't have
Speaker 3: anything as far as physical evidence. He just had his story.
Speaker 3: But it has certainly again, if it happened in nineteen
Speaker 3: twenty four and we're sitting here in February of twenty
Speaker 3: twenty six talking about it, it has definitely been one
Speaker 3: of the most prolific encounter stories that has ever happened
Speaker 3: as far as Bigfoot is concerned, in my opinion. But
Speaker 3: let's talk about something a little closer to home. When
Speaker 3: you reached out with the email, you mentioned that your
Speaker 3: dad had an experience that you wanted to share with us.
Speaker 3: So let's go back to that. Take us back to
Speaker 3: where your dad was, what was he doing, and what
Speaker 3: happened to him.
Speaker 2: Sure this would have been back in Central Texas in
Speaker 2: the early eighties, a couple of years before I was born.
Speaker 2: My dad and mom were married at the time, and
Speaker 2: at the time, my dad did a lot of skinning
Speaker 2: for extra cash, and he did a lot of coon hunting.
Speaker 2: He was out there after dark, probably close to midnight,
Speaker 2: with my mother and a couple of coon dogs and
Speaker 2: a little twenty two mag rifle, and he had already
Speaker 2: bagged a couple of coons and he was just making
Speaker 2: the rounds on the property. It was a Mills County
Speaker 2: if it makes a difference. He spotted a turkey roosted
Speaker 2: up in a tree, and so he figured, I'm going
Speaker 2: to get me a turkey tonight too, So he shot
Speaker 2: this turkey. And then after he cracked that shot off,
Speaker 2: as he's described it to me over and over growing up,
Speaker 2: it sounded just like the MGM lion roared. He said,
Speaker 2: I felt it. It felt like I was at a
Speaker 2: concert and said, it just few like the MGN line
Speaker 2: was in the room with you and it roared at you.
Speaker 2: My mom said, what was that? And he said, I
Speaker 2: don't know. I think it was a cowballing because he
Speaker 2: didn't want to have her freak out because they were
Speaker 2: like a mile out in the woods from the truck
Speaker 2: with just like a little flashlight and a twenty two
Speaker 2: mag and he said, so he gathered his stuff up,
Speaker 2: and he said the dogs, which were good coon dogs
Speaker 2: as he said, stuck to them like glue and didn't
Speaker 2: wander off at all. And then he said they made
Speaker 2: their way back to the truck, and then when they
Speaker 2: got back to the truck, he said, I don't know
Speaker 2: what that was, but it wasn't a cowballing. My whole life,
Speaker 2: he's always told me it was a mountain lion. He
Speaker 2: just assumed it was a mountain lion. When I got
Speaker 2: to be like an adult, I told him dead mountain
Speaker 2: lions don't roar.
Speaker 4: They go rah at you. It's like a high pitch.
Speaker 4: They don't roar like the MGM lion.
Speaker 2: So I always figured it was either Bigfoot or maybe
Speaker 2: a dog man who knows, or an African lion walking
Speaker 2: around out there, and any of those is a pretty
Speaker 2: scary situation, I would.
Speaker 3: Think out in the woods of the twenty two mag
Speaker 3: So many coon hunters have stories about these things. I've
Speaker 3: only covered a couple of them on this show and
Speaker 3: some of the other podcasts because I think there's so
Speaker 3: much that goes on. I was having this conversation with
Speaker 3: somebody earlier today about some of these encounters that happened
Speaker 3: to people. I had a conversation with a guy that
Speaker 3: I was interviewing just a few days ago who had
Speaker 3: something happened in his childhood, and it took him until
Speaker 3: he was in his early forties to really connect it
Speaker 3: to the subject because he didn't have the words to
Speaker 3: describe it. Back then, Bigfoot wasn't on his radar, Sasquatch
Speaker 3: wasn't a thing for him. But he's gotten into the
Speaker 3: subject over the years, and now he has done enough
Speaker 3: research and listened to enough podcast like this one and
Speaker 3: to other shows, and watched enough documentaries to say, wait
Speaker 3: a minute, that thing that happened to me when I
Speaker 3: was ten years old doesn't make sense. The other known
Speaker 3: animals in that area don't make those kind of noises,
Speaker 3: Other known animals don't act that way. This guy that
Speaker 3: I interviewed a couple of days ago, I said to him,
Speaker 3: do you think what you saw? Because he described to
Speaker 3: me seeing a very small monkey and it was white
Speaker 3: when he was a kid, and it came down the
Speaker 3: tree headfirst, and he's basically standing there staring at this thing,
Speaker 3: and they're looking at each other. And I think he
Speaker 3: was in Missouri or Michigan or somewhere. Monkeys aren't native
Speaker 3: to the area that he was in at the time
Speaker 3: he was a kid. But he would never say that
Speaker 3: it was a potential baby or juvenile sasquatch. And I
Speaker 3: certainly was not trying to put words in his mouth,
Speaker 3: but I said, when you go through the motions. When
Speaker 3: you start checking the boxes, if it wasn't a mountain lion,
Speaker 3: if it wasn't a bird, if it wasn't a known animal,
Speaker 3: if it wasn't an owl, then when you check off
Speaker 3: all of those boxes of things that it wasn't and
Speaker 3: you're left with only one one thing that it could
Speaker 3: possibly be, then I'm going to play Devil's advocate here
Speaker 3: and say Occam's razor is leaning in the direction of
Speaker 3: that it was probably a sasquatch experience that he had
Speaker 3: of a baby or juvenile sasquatch. And I pointed to
Speaker 3: the fact that I've interviewed other people like Kathy's Strain
Speaker 3: and Bob Strain and people that have been out in
Speaker 3: Area X that have seen these baby or juvenile sasquatches
Speaker 3: that are the size of chimps. They're three to four
Speaker 3: feet tall, and they're swinging through the trees like chimpanzees.
Speaker 3: And as far as I know, in the area of
Speaker 3: Texas and Oklahoma and any of the places that Area
Speaker 3: X would be, those things aren't native there. And if
Speaker 3: your dad has been a coon hunter all his life
Speaker 3: and he's out in the woods and he's hearing this
Speaker 3: strange MGM lion scream or roar. When you start checking
Speaker 3: the boxes of things that it isn't, you're left with
Speaker 3: only one option. Has your dad, through any of your conversations,
Speaker 3: has he ever arrived at the fact that he might
Speaker 3: have had a sasquatch experience or does he still chalk
Speaker 3: it up to the fact that I'm going to say
Speaker 3: it was a big cat and I'm going to move forward.
Speaker 4: He does believe that's what it is.
Speaker 2: At this point, I did forget to mention that he
Speaker 2: it seemed like they were being circled and not so
Speaker 2: much paced out, but something was definitely circling them and
Speaker 2: checking them out all the way to the truck, which
Speaker 2: the dogs were.
Speaker 4: Right on top of them freaked out.
Speaker 2: But other than that, it was just the roar and
Speaker 2: then just a feeling of we did probably need to
Speaker 2: get out of here kind of scenario.
Speaker 3: That's the other thing that has always fascinated me. I
Speaker 3: have talked to people through the years. I've done probably
Speaker 3: a thousand plus interviews at this point. One of the
Speaker 3: early interviews that I did was a gentleman I can't
Speaker 3: remember his name, but he was from Louisiana and it
Speaker 3: was out late at night. They might have been coon hunting,
Speaker 3: I don't know. But he had dogs with him, and
Speaker 3: one of these dogs ran into this area where they
Speaker 3: were having activity, and whatever was in there, I'm going
Speaker 3: to whatever kicked the dog up, killed it and threw
Speaker 3: it over their head and it landed thirty forty feet
Speaker 3: behind them. There's a lot of things in the woods
Speaker 3: that can kill a dog.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 3: We've lost a dog here on our property several years back.
Speaker 3: I still don't know what killed the dog. It was
Speaker 3: probably a big cat. It might have been a coyote.
Speaker 3: But there are very few things on this earth that
Speaker 3: can pick a dog the size of this dog up
Speaker 3: and throw it thirty or forty feet over their heads
Speaker 3: out of the woods. And I think his name was Tyler,
Speaker 3: if I remember correctly. I'm sorry. I have a horrible
Speaker 3: memory when it comes to that stuff. But I said
Speaker 3: to Tyler, I said, are you pretty sure? And he
Speaker 3: was pretty sure it was a sasquatch because of his
Speaker 3: experiences that he had had before, and the research that
Speaker 3: he had done, and the vocalizations and the other things
Speaker 3: that was going on. But that's the other thing about
Speaker 3: this subject that has always fascinated me is people with
Speaker 3: dogs and having encounters. The dogs will usually tell the
Speaker 3: tale for you, and stay.
Speaker 6: Tuned for more sasquatch out to see. We'll be right
Speaker 6: back after these messages.
Speaker 3: If you have coon dogs, I've coon hunted when I
Speaker 3: was a kid, so I know our coon dogs were
Speaker 3: the most gentle dogs. They were the most loving dogs
Speaker 3: in the world, but when it came to a coon,
Speaker 3: they were absolutely ravitous. They were some of the most
Speaker 3: aggressive dogs that I have ever seen when it comes
Speaker 3: to what they were trained to do, which was to
Speaker 3: chase and tree a coon so that we could go
Speaker 3: retrieve said coon. And I know some people. We never
Speaker 3: did this. We always shot the coons out of the tree.
Speaker 3: But I know some people will go up and they'll
Speaker 3: poke the tree and they'll poke the coon and get
Speaker 3: it out of the tree so the dog can fight
Speaker 3: the coon. We never did that because I think it's
Speaker 3: dangerous and I don't necessarily think that's the most humane thing.
Speaker 3: But these dogs, by and large, are not afraid of
Speaker 3: much as the point and when if you have your
Speaker 3: dad who's clearly a trained hunter, who's been out with
Speaker 3: these dogs multiple times, that's what they live to do
Speaker 3: when they're having that kind of reaction, when they're literally
Speaker 3: glued to him and your mom, that just doesn't make
Speaker 3: sense to me. So the totality of the circumstances is
Speaker 3: what it's always about for me, is that if these
Speaker 3: dogs are acting outside their character and you've got some
Speaker 3: unknown vocalization going on, at some point, I think you
Speaker 3: crossed the threshold of whether you believe in these things
Speaker 3: or not. Something weird's going on here, and it's possibly
Speaker 3: an interaction with one of these creatures. I know you
Speaker 3: haven't had an interaction with the Sasquatch per se, but
Speaker 3: I know you've had some strange experiences. So would you
Speaker 3: mind telling us about your own personal strange experiences?
Speaker 4: Sure love to. So this would have been in their
Speaker 4: early nineties.
Speaker 2: I was probably twelve thirteen years old at my parents
Speaker 2: house in Central Texas. It was after dark. Me and
Speaker 2: my dad were outside doing redneck stuff. He wanted to
Speaker 2: see if this twenty two rifle he had would go
Speaker 2: all the way through this fifty gallon drum redneck stuff,
Speaker 2: and so we were out there shooting this barrel with
Speaker 2: this twenty two rifle, and then we walked over to
Speaker 2: the rifle and my dad had stuck his upper body
Speaker 2: up into the barrel with the flashlight, looking around, and
Speaker 2: I was doing like the normal young kid shit, just
Speaker 2: looking around, not paying attention, had the rifle in my hand.
Speaker 2: Some movement caught my eye and I looked off towards
Speaker 2: Nabindi at the south from my parents' house.
Speaker 4: My parents' property was the flyover zone.
Speaker 2: There was a National Guard armory that was a few
Speaker 2: miles as the crow flies back behind us, so we
Speaker 2: would see like see when thirties and helicopters and stuff
Speaker 2: always going over.
Speaker 4: This was not that there was no sound.
Speaker 2: It was, for lack of better description, like a huge
Speaker 2: red orbit looked like the sun right before it goes
Speaker 2: below the horizon, just a bright, fiery red was casting
Speaker 2: a little bit of a light on the ground, but
Speaker 2: not a lot to illuminate the.
Speaker 4: Area, just enough that you could notice.
Speaker 2: It period to be about one hundred yards away, about
Speaker 2: the size of like a basketball. It wasn't huge, but
Speaker 2: it looked about the size of the sun like on
Speaker 2: the horizon, and it just floated over the tree line
Speaker 2: there at the edge of the property. And I stood there,
Speaker 2: dumbfounded and watched the whole thing, and never even thought
Speaker 2: to say, Dad, what.
Speaker 4: The hell is that?
Speaker 2: I was just like shocked and just staring at this thing.
Speaker 2: I didn't mention it for a few years. I finally
Speaker 2: mentioned it to him and he was like, I can't
Speaker 2: believe you didn't say, look at that, what's that?
Speaker 4: Because he would have got a kick under that for sure.
Speaker 3: Isn't that the strangest thing. I've talked to so many
Speaker 3: people that have had weird experiences, whether it be related
Speaker 3: to a bigfoot, whether it be related to UFOs orbs,
Speaker 3: strange things. It's so fascinating to me because we have
Speaker 3: this picture in our mind of what we would do
Speaker 3: if we were in that situation. It's like the Monday
Speaker 3: morning quarterback thing, right. If I were in that situation,
Speaker 3: I would have charged into the woods, or if I
Speaker 3: were in that situation and saw that, I would have said, hey,
Speaker 3: look at that. It's different for everybody, and it's always
Speaker 3: interesting to me when you have those kind of experiences
Speaker 3: and you choose not to draw attention to it, you
Speaker 3: say nothing. I've talked to people that have had wild
Speaker 3: bigfoot experiences where things were thrown at them, they're running
Speaker 3: out of the woods, they're trying their best to make
Speaker 3: it off the trail, head back into the vehicle, and
Speaker 3: they escape the area, and then they drive for an
Speaker 3: hour and don't talk about it. Some of them never
Speaker 3: talk about it for the rest of their lives. There's
Speaker 3: this other weird I call it a phenomenon in and
Speaker 3: of itself, where people have these bigfoot experiences or Sasquatch experiences,
Speaker 3: where they have something very traumatic. They hear a weird vocalization,
Speaker 3: they see something outside the camp, they hear something walking around.
Speaker 3: Sometimes they even see the creature physically, and then they
Speaker 3: go back into the tent and they fall asleep. And
Speaker 3: I've had people postulate to me saying, I think it
Speaker 3: might have been they used infrasound on me, or they
Speaker 3: use some sort of ability that they have to make
Speaker 3: me calm down and make me sleepy. But it is
Speaker 3: one of those through lines that I have documented so
Speaker 3: many times in the we're seven hundred plus episodes of
Speaker 3: the show at this point. There's that through line that
Speaker 3: seems to run through a lot of these encounters where
Speaker 3: people they don't talk about what they saw, they don't
Speaker 3: point it out to the people that are standing a
Speaker 3: foot away from them, or even if they do when
Speaker 3: they experience it together, they get in the car or
Speaker 3: the truck or whatever, and then they don't talk about
Speaker 3: it and they never bring it up again. That is
Speaker 3: one of the most fascinating parts of this for me,
Speaker 3: because every experience I've ever had, I've always talked about
Speaker 3: with people. I guess I'm a little bit different in
Speaker 3: that I've never really cared a lot about what people
Speaker 3: think about me, So I know there's a part of
Speaker 3: that goes into it that I don't want people to
Speaker 3: think I'm crazy. I don't want people to think I'm
Speaker 3: seeing things, and I guess I went through that myself.
Speaker 3: With being in law enforcement for sixteen years. I didn't
Speaker 3: talk about any of those experiences, at least publicly for
Speaker 3: that amount of time because I had to protect my
Speaker 3: reputation as a police officer. Even though I was in
Speaker 3: a big city like the city of Atlanta, they still
Speaker 3: monitored your Facebook. Trust me. I prosecuted a ton of
Speaker 3: DUI cases. For some reason. DUI attorneys seemed to be
Speaker 3: the most voracious attorneys that I've ever went up against.
Speaker 3: If they had found on my Facebook page that I
Speaker 3: was talking about Bigfoot or my UFO experiences back then,
Speaker 3: I would have been crucified in court and it wouldn't
Speaker 3: have mattered if any of it really meant anything about
Speaker 3: my mental stability as a police officer or what happened
Speaker 3: that particular night. None of that really matters. It's all
Speaker 3: about perception, and that goes out the window immediately when
Speaker 3: you're talking about this stuff. So I guess in some
Speaker 3: way I can relate to that because I didn't talk
Speaker 3: about it for so many years, But that was directly
Speaker 3: related to my career and my ability to pay my
Speaker 3: bills and take care of my family. It's weirder for
Speaker 3: me when it's between a family member. I have a
Speaker 3: good friend that I interviewed, I don't know, a couple
Speaker 3: of months ago. I guess it was late last year
Speaker 3: when I was out at the Ozark Mountain Bigfoot Conference.
Speaker 3: No a boss came on and she and her son
Speaker 3: experienced a bigfoot encounter where they saw a creature and
Speaker 3: they didn't talk about it forever. It took them months
Speaker 3: and months to talk about the experience. And I asked
Speaker 3: her and she didn't have an answer for it. She said,
Speaker 3: I really can't tell you why we didn't talk about it.
Speaker 3: But that is such a through line for so many
Speaker 3: of these experiences. When people see or experience something with
Speaker 3: somebody they care about that they're very close to, and
Speaker 3: they don't have that conversation and that follow up about Hey,
Speaker 3: you remember last week when we saw that weird shit
Speaker 3: in the woods. They just don't talk about it. And
Speaker 3: I know I'm putting you on the spot here and
Speaker 3: it's completely subjective. I'm not asking you to psychoanalyzing of this,
Speaker 3: But what do you think have you considered that when
Speaker 3: you're listening to podcast or even looking into the subject
Speaker 3: on your own, have you seen that in some of
Speaker 3: the experiences that that have been documented. What do you
Speaker 3: think Do you have an opinion on why that is,
Speaker 3: why people just don't talk about it, Why you didn't
Speaker 3: tell your dad, hey, look over there.
Speaker 2: It's definitely come up quite a few times, and I've,
Speaker 2: like you said, wondered I would probably give this in
Speaker 2: that situation, But normally I would have told my dad, hey.
Speaker 4: Look at that.
Speaker 2: And I've seen what I assumed for UFOs, But that
Speaker 2: was probably the easiestly the strangest thing I've ever seen
Speaker 2: in my life, at least as a kid, and I
Speaker 2: was dumbfounded.
Speaker 4: I get it. As far as the not talking about
Speaker 4: it for years, I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's just a weird stress response when it comes down
Speaker 2: to people like camping out and hearing something walking around
Speaker 2: and sniffling around their campsite and then they're all freaked
Speaker 2: down and scared and they go to sleep. I don't
Speaker 2: think I would react like that, so I don't know
Speaker 2: if that's more of a woo factor or what.
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 2: I'd be locking and loading and just sitting there and
Speaker 2: hoping nothing happened. But I'd be interested in hell and
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie. I'd be thinking, oh, this could
Speaker 2: be the time I see a big foot. But I
Speaker 2: wouldn't curl up and go to sleep. That to be
Speaker 2: just asking for problems. Yeah, it's really weird.
Speaker 3: I think it was episode three or four of the
Speaker 3: show that I interviewed a gentleman who had so many
Speaker 3: experiences with these creatures, and he talked about that multiple
Speaker 3: times where he would have experiences with them. He was
Speaker 3: sitting on his front porch and he thought that they
Speaker 3: were using infrasound or some way that they were quote
Speaker 3: unquote zapping him to make him tired for whatever reason,
Speaker 3: and that guy way beyond what I was comfortable talking about,
Speaker 3: especially back then. I'm a little more comfortable going in
Speaker 3: that direction now, even though I'm a flesh and blood guy.
Speaker 3: When it comes to these creatures, it is very difficult
Speaker 3: to explain away some of these other weirder or stranger
Speaker 3: or you mentioned the woo or high strangeness kind of
Speaker 3: experiences that people have with these things. Let me ask
Speaker 3: you this, as far as you looking into the subject
Speaker 3: and being and interested in it as a kid and
Speaker 3: now looking at it as an adult and a professional obviously,
Speaker 3: and you're looking at it through this lens of critical thinking,
Speaker 3: where are you on the subject as a whole? Are
Speaker 3: you more of a flesh and blood person? Do you
Speaker 3: think it's possible that there may be more to these creatures?
Speaker 3: And I'm not necessarily talking about them coming through portals
Speaker 3: or being dropped off by aliens to use the bathroom
Speaker 3: while the aliens fly around and entertain us, and then
Speaker 3: they come back and pick these things up later. But
Speaker 3: where are you on the totality of what you think
Speaker 3: these things are as far as flesh and blood versus
Speaker 3: the high strangess? Or do you think there's possibly that
Speaker 3: they're a combination of both.
Speaker 2: I do hold my opinion obviously that I believe in
Speaker 2: is some form of a relic commanoid kind of leftover.
Speaker 2: They've just spent thousands and thousands of years. They're not
Speaker 2: millions of years avoiding us, because we've probably just killed
Speaker 2: them on side.
Speaker 4: Anytime we ever saw them.
Speaker 2: I tend to believe they're just bleshing blood, but just
Speaker 2: like highly evolved for their natural surroundings and what they're
Speaker 2: trying to accomplish in life, and just by living their life,
Speaker 2: they're highly evolved.
Speaker 4: They're just surviving. I am open to the.
Speaker 2: Possibility of the paranormal end at the woo factor, because
Speaker 2: there are a lot of encounters out there that I
Speaker 2: can't explain by you. Just some monkey in the woods
Speaker 2: walking around, have people that shoot them and they pop
Speaker 2: into a burst of light and then disappear. One of
Speaker 2: my favorite is the finding the trackways and they just disappear.
Speaker 2: Did they just back up and then veer off somewhere
Speaker 2: else or they jump fifty feet away. It's hard for
Speaker 2: me to rationalize how you're just chomping along and then
Speaker 2: there's nothing to climb up and you just disappear.
Speaker 4: Did you get picked up or did you disappear? What happened?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Man, it is tough for me when I have those
Speaker 3: experiences and I've talked to people that I trust implicitly,
Speaker 3: and that is a very small group of people. Honestly,
Speaker 3: I am very sin Unfortunately, because of so many years
Speaker 3: in law enforcement. I have always been skeptical of people
Speaker 3: in general. But I have become cynical in a lot
Speaker 3: of ways over the years, and I've tried to move
Speaker 3: as far away from that as I can, but it
Speaker 3: is honestly part of my DNA in some cases, and
Speaker 3: when people talk about those kind of things, it is
Speaker 3: very difficult not to be cynical and say, yeah, that
Speaker 3: just doesn't make sense to me. But let me ask
Speaker 3: you this, And I don't even know the answer to
Speaker 3: this question, so I guess there'll be a two part
Speaker 3: question for you. I guess the first part of the
Speaker 3: question would be do you believe these creatures exist? And
Speaker 3: I think I know the answer to that, but I'll
Speaker 3: let you answer that in your own way. And I
Speaker 3: guess the follow up to that would be, and it's
Speaker 3: obviously completely subjective, but if you believe that these creatures exist,
Speaker 3: what would you say to and there are people that
Speaker 3: are skeptical that listen to this show, what would you
Speaker 3: say to the skeptics that say, there's absolutely no way
Speaker 3: that these creatures exist. If they did, they would be
Speaker 3: known by science. We would have one in a museum somewhere,
Speaker 3: we would have had one on the slab that we
Speaker 3: could study. There would be scientific research being done. But
Speaker 3: that's not happened. So there's no way that these things
Speaker 3: could be real. So again, I'll just circle back and
Speaker 3: recap first and foremost. Do you think these things absolutely exist?
Speaker 3: And if that's the case, what would you say to
Speaker 3: the skeptics that are listening that say there's absolutely no
Speaker 3: way that is the case. That's absolute bullshit. I do
Speaker 3: believe they exist.
Speaker 2: Case in point, I was talking to someone the other
Speaker 2: day about bigfoot at work here. Everybody at work knows
Speaker 2: I'm into bigfoot, so it's not like it's gonna affect
Speaker 2: be professionally, but everybody knows. I got to have the
Speaker 2: nickname sometimes set Squatch. But I was showing that coworker
Speaker 2: of my bfro field map app just all the dots,
Speaker 2: and I said, I believe. So it just doesn't really
Speaker 2: do much for me. I like looking at the encounters,
Speaker 2: but you're telling me every one of those dots is
Speaker 2: someone lying or a mistaken identity.
Speaker 4: There's like thousands of dots on there from.
Speaker 2: The last twenty twenty five years, not to mention the
Speaker 2: last like seventy five or one hundred years, whenever they
Speaker 2: started recording the information. But you can't tell me every
Speaker 2: single one of those is a hoax or mistaken identity,
Speaker 2: or just someone have nothing else to do on the
Speaker 2: Saturday night and they come up with a Bigfoot encounter story.
Speaker 4: It doesn't make sense to me. That doesn't compute.
Speaker 3: I'm right there with you, man.
Speaker 4: I have always.
Speaker 3: Been skeptical about the existence of bigfoot up until the
Speaker 3: summer of twenty twenty four when I had my own
Speaker 3: experiences and I was standing ten feet away from one
Speaker 3: of these creatures. That's literally what it took for me
Speaker 3: to say, Okay, they exist, They're real. So I get
Speaker 3: the skepticism. I think I am still very skeptical of people.
Speaker 3: I've said it so many times. After I had my
Speaker 3: own encounters, I am no longer skeptical about bigfoot, but
Speaker 3: I am still very skeptical about people in general, and
Speaker 3: the evidence they present and the things that they tell
Speaker 3: us as far as their encounters. I think there is
Speaker 3: a healthy skepticism that can be applied to the subject,
Speaker 3: and I think without it, we're probably doomed if we're
Speaker 3: not at least skeptical of the people that bring us
Speaker 3: whatever they're bringing, because that's how hoaxers operate. That's how
Speaker 3: these people that are in the community, in my opinion,
Speaker 3: some of the biggest toddstanding Mike Patterson from Sasquatch, Ontario,
Speaker 3: some of the other people that have perpetrated some of
Speaker 3: these major hoaxes and continue to do so. I think
Speaker 3: you have to be skeptical about them. I am no
Speaker 3: longer skeptical about Bigfoot, but I get people who are
Speaker 3: because it took me having that experience myself and seeing
Speaker 3: these creatures with my own eyes for me to say, Okay,
Speaker 3: this is a real thing. These things are real, and stay.
Speaker 6: Tuned for more Sasquatch hot to see we'll be right
Speaker 6: back after these messages. And I think it was a
Speaker 6: way for me to at least when I first got
Speaker 6: into the subject, I was very much about getting these
Speaker 6: things discovered. I wanted them scientifically discovered. I want science involved.
Speaker 6: I wanted them to be a recognized species. But I
Speaker 6: tell you, over the last probably three years or so,
Speaker 6: and particularly after twenty twenty four, when I had my encounters,
Speaker 6: once I answered that question for myself, I really started
Speaker 6: to back off of the discovery because I am so afraid,
Speaker 6: honestly that if we as human beings get involved with
Speaker 6: these creatures and they are discovered, and we start pushing
Speaker 6: the envelope. And again I've said it recently on other podcasts,
Speaker 6: I think we've done great things with preserving endangered species.
Speaker 6: We have brought endangered species back from the brink of extinction.
Speaker 6: So humans do good things, but we do a lot
Speaker 6: of bad shit as well. So I am really in
Speaker 6: the category now of once I had my experiences and
Speaker 6: I know these things are real. For myself, selfishly, I
Speaker 6: have backed off the discovery and I'm less about evidence.
Speaker 6: I don't really give a shit about a picture.
Speaker 4: I don't care.
Speaker 3: About a video. I love audio and I love footprint evidence.
Speaker 3: If you have a cast, if you have pictures of footprints,
Speaker 3: or you have some cool audio of vocalizations, I'm all
Speaker 3: about it. But with AI and all the things that
Speaker 3: are out there now. I don't even know what's real anymore.
Speaker 3: I don't know if Donald Trump's riding around in a
Speaker 3: low rider somewhere listening to rap music with Kim Jong Lung.
Speaker 3: You can create anything with AI at this point, right, So,
Speaker 3: I don't believe that. I don't really care about the
Speaker 3: evidence anymore. But let me ask you this. I guess
Speaker 3: this would be the final question for you. Where are
Speaker 3: you on that spectrum, your interest in the subject, your
Speaker 3: research into the subject. Are you four these things being
Speaker 3: discovered or are you concerned like myself, that if we
Speaker 3: get involved as humans, we may do more harm than good.
Speaker 4: I'm definitely a believer.
Speaker 2: I would like to be a knower, but no, I
Speaker 2: tend to agree with you.
Speaker 4: I do believe it.
Speaker 2: If they've been around as long as we've had encounters
Speaker 2: of them, they probably are doing reasonably okay by themselves,
Speaker 2: and that I think the more we get involved, the
Speaker 2: more it's gonna be worse for them. Again, I would
Speaker 2: like it to be proven, because you know that we
Speaker 2: can protect them. Hopefully that a lot of people wouldn't
Speaker 2: think we were all full of shit and crazy for
Speaker 2: believing in a nine foot doll monkey running around the woods.
Speaker 4: But then I mean that, honestly, a lot of people
Speaker 4: couldn't deal with that.
Speaker 2: I'd scare the shit into so many people something like
Speaker 2: that running around the woods, and nine times out of
Speaker 2: ten you're gonna be fine. It's just that one time
Speaker 2: where you don't react appropriately that something might happen, which
Speaker 2: is Mike you nervous.
Speaker 3: Very true, And that's something that people have pointed out
Speaker 3: to me over the years that plenty of people ask
Speaker 3: me a ton about conspiracy theories. What the government knows,
Speaker 3: what they don't know, why they would keep that secret
Speaker 3: from the people. And I've said that over the years,
Speaker 3: I have made the comment. I think I've said it
Speaker 3: probably a thousand times. At this point, you would be
Speaker 3: surprised what the government doesn't know. I worked for a
Speaker 3: huge metropolitan police department in the city of Atlanta, and
Speaker 3: you would be baffled to know the shit that we
Speaker 3: didn't know on a daily basis that we should have known.
Speaker 3: As a major metropolitan police department with two thousand officers
Speaker 3: that are trying to protect people during the Final Four
Speaker 3: or the Olympics, or whatever the case may be, you'd
Speaker 3: be surprised what the government doesn't know, so I find
Speaker 3: it very difficult to believe that there's some vast, massive
Speaker 3: government conspiracy. But I've been writing. I actually finished the
Speaker 3: book late last year and I've got it out to
Speaker 3: the publishers now. The Sheriff of Bigfoot Country is a
Speaker 3: book that I wrote last year, and it's partly about
Speaker 3: my experiences, but it's mostly a fictionalized story about a
Speaker 3: major cover up within the government. And it was really
Speaker 3: cool and really fun for me to explore that through
Speaker 3: a fictional book, because I've never really bought into that
Speaker 3: whole conspiracy theory thing. But the more I wrote about
Speaker 3: it fictionally, the more some of the shit that I
Speaker 3: was writing made sense that it's probably happening to people.
Speaker 3: So I think there might be more of a cover
Speaker 3: up than I'm willing at least to admit at this point.
Speaker 4: But I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think it's something that i've really I've went back
Speaker 3: and forth on even saying that I'm not for discovery.
Speaker 3: Part of the reasons that you just mentioned, I would
Speaker 3: like these things to be protected, if they need protection,
Speaker 3: because my thing has always been there's always this one
Speaker 3: percent in the back of my mind that just scratches
Speaker 3: at me and says, what if they are endangered? Because
Speaker 3: I truly believe that there's a lot less of these
Speaker 3: creatures than people think. That has changed for me over
Speaker 3: the last few years. I used to think there was
Speaker 3: a lot more than they are. But the more I've
Speaker 3: talked to people that have been in the subject for
Speaker 3: so many decades and really looking into this, they're digging
Speaker 3: way deeper than I ever have that have said to me,
Speaker 3: there's probably five thousand across the lower forty eight totally,
Speaker 3: and if that's the case, they're definitely endangered. So there
Speaker 3: is a part of me that wonders and worries that
Speaker 3: if we don't push for discovery, if they're not discovered
Speaker 3: and they are on the verge of extinction, maybe there's
Speaker 3: only two thousand, maybe there's only one thousand. If that's
Speaker 3: the case, there is a part of me that I
Speaker 3: would be disingenuous if I didn't share and say there
Speaker 3: is that part of me that says, man, I hope
Speaker 3: that's not the case, because I think we could probably
Speaker 3: do something to save them if they are at that point.
Speaker 3: But then the rest of me says, I have seen
Speaker 3: humanity at its worst, and it really concerns me that
Speaker 3: if we get involved, we're just gonna make it even
Speaker 3: worse for them. If they are what I think they are,
Speaker 3: which is something very close to us, I think they're
Speaker 3: very intelligent. I think it's best that we leave them alone.
Speaker 3: That's where I'm at as we sit on February ninth,
Speaker 3: twenty twenty six. That's where I feel. I may change
Speaker 3: that next week. That's one of the things that has
Speaker 3: gotten me in trouble on this show so many times
Speaker 3: with certain people. As new information comes in, I change
Speaker 3: my feelings, I change my beliefs, I changed my hypothesis,
Speaker 3: I changed my theory on these things. But that's where
Speaker 3: I am sitting right now is I think we just
Speaker 3: need to leave them alone. And I've said this recently.
Speaker 3: I think I was a guest on another couple of
Speaker 3: podcasts recently where I said I've even gotten to the
Speaker 3: point where I feel bad about going out into the
Speaker 3: woods and looking for them, because if they are what
Speaker 3: I think they are, it's got to be stressful. Imagine
Speaker 3: you get off of your shift, you come home from work,
Speaker 3: and there's five people sending in your living room, screaming
Speaker 3: and hollering and beating on the wall. Is that going
Speaker 3: to piss you off? Is it going to bother you?
Speaker 3: Of course it is. That's basically what we're doing to them.
Speaker 3: If you go out in the woods and you're screaming
Speaker 3: and yelling and you're beating on trees and you're doing
Speaker 3: whatever you're doing as far as your research. I know
Speaker 3: not everybody researches the same way, but by and large,
Speaker 3: that's what most people do that I've been out with.
Speaker 4: That's how they.
Speaker 3: Research quote unquote research. And we're going in their living
Speaker 3: rooms and we're beating on trees and we're screaming, and
Speaker 3: we're yelling, and we're building fires, and we're camping and
Speaker 3: doing all these things. I'll be honest with you, I
Speaker 3: don't want people on my forty acres camping and beating
Speaker 3: on trees and screaming and yelling. I certainly don't want
Speaker 3: anybody in my living room doing the same thing. That's
Speaker 3: what I feel like we're doing to them. So I'm
Speaker 3: pulling back a little bit on some of the things
Speaker 3: that I've done. I don't do as many tree knocks,
Speaker 3: I don't do as many yells and vocalizations. It sticks
Speaker 3: out to me because when I was up with Todd standing.
Speaker 3: I went out with him in October of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3: I do this weird kind of pant hoot thing. If
Speaker 3: you've ever heard chimpanzees do their pant hoot. I was
Speaker 3: doing that in Todd's research area, and Todd got nervous.
Speaker 3: He was like, I'm not sure we should be doing that,
Speaker 3: and I don't know what they're gonna think about that,
Speaker 3: like he had never heard anybody do that kind of
Speaker 3: aggressive vocalization. And I don't do that anymore. I used
Speaker 3: to do that on my property a lot, but I
Speaker 3: don't do it anymore, just simply because now that I
Speaker 3: know they're real, I don't need to, if that makes
Speaker 3: any sense. And I get why people still go out
Speaker 3: and do those things. You even mentioned it earlier. You
Speaker 3: want to be a knower, and I totally get it.
Speaker 3: I don't begrudge people trying to go out and get
Speaker 3: their experience. So by no means am I saying don't
Speaker 3: go out and research. I want people to get off
Speaker 3: the couch. I want them to go out in the woods.
Speaker 3: I want them to have those experiences, and I want
Speaker 3: them to be safe about it. I'm just saying personally,
Speaker 3: for me, I've taken a step back because I don't
Speaker 3: want to be the person who is being disrespectful, if
Speaker 3: that makes sense. I want to have more experiences selfishly.
Speaker 3: I know it's ego, and I know it's selfish for
Speaker 3: me to want to go out and have more experiences,
Speaker 3: and I get it from other people. I just think
Speaker 3: we should be doing it in as a responsible way
Speaker 3: as we possibly can.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, absolutely, a point I was talking about
Speaker 2: when we were talking about some of those experiences. I
Speaker 2: always felt about like seventy five to eighty percent of experiences,
Speaker 2: the big food just want you to get the hell
Speaker 2: out of the area. Like you said, if someone walked
Speaker 2: into my house, I'd be a little upset too. People
Speaker 2: with the subject of the post is I almost was
Speaker 2: killed by a big foot or I barely escaped with
Speaker 2: my life. I'm thinking, if it wanted you dead, it
Speaker 2: would have had you dead to.
Speaker 4: Rights pretty quick.
Speaker 2: You stumbling through the woods in the dark, crying and
Speaker 2: fishing yourself isn't going to say he's from getting killed
Speaker 2: if it wanted you to be dead.
Speaker 4: So I'm thinking it just like, get out of here,
Speaker 4: we'll come back.
Speaker 2: I always have to chuckle when I read those and
Speaker 2: hear people they're terrifying account.
Speaker 4: I was like, it would be scary, don't get me wrong,
Speaker 4: but I think it just wanted you out of the area.
Speaker 3: Very good point, my friend, Well, Seth, I appreciate you
Speaker 3: coming on and sharing your experiences and having the conversation. Man,
Speaker 3: I've had a blast talking to you.
Speaker 4: I enjoyed it a lot.
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