WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Oh hey, it's that sticky quarter hiding under your floor mat,

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<v Speaker 1>just waiting for you to get desperate enough to use

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<v Speaker 1>it at a parking meter. Ali ward back with a

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<v Speaker 1>coronasde This is the third installment of coronavirus episodes. The

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<v Speaker 1>first one was with virologist doctor Shannon Bennett from cal Academy,

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<v Speaker 1>and then we had an isolation era March thirty. First

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<v Speaker 1>episode called All Washed, Hands on Deck with doctor Michael

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<v Speaker 1>Wells about testing resources, what we can all do to help,

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<v Speaker 1>and also how to practice self care during a really

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<v Speaker 1>tough time. So it's been two months and things are

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<v Speaker 1>starting to slowly reopen in the US and we all

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<v Speaker 1>have a lot of questions. So I hopped on the

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<v Speaker 1>horn with past guests doctor Mike Natter. He is a

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<v Speaker 1>physician in New York City who you know from the

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<v Speaker 1>Diabetology episodes. He has been on the front lines in

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<v Speaker 1>emergency and ICU units and gives us an account of

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<v Speaker 1>the disease prognoses what to expect next. I also chatted

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<v Speaker 1>with doctor Shannon be a virologist extraordinaire, to talk about

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<v Speaker 1>how the virus behaves and how we should behave because

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<v Speaker 1>that's a big part of it. But before we get

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<v Speaker 1>to them quickly, just a few thanks to everyone on

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<v Speaker 1>patreon dot com slash ologies for submitting questions for this

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<v Speaker 1>episode this is all your questions, and for supporting for

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<v Speaker 1>as little as a buck a month. Thank you to

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<v Speaker 1>everyone sending these episodes around via word of mouth and

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<v Speaker 1>social media and subscribing and rating and of course reviewing.

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<v Speaker 1>Your reviews have kept me company during a lonely time,

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<v Speaker 1>and as proof, I read a fresh one that someone

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<v Speaker 1>left each week. This one is from history Kid, who

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<v Speaker 1>says that this podcast makes learning about topics I've never

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<v Speaker 1>even heard of so interesting and enjoyable. I have to

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<v Speaker 1>confess her intro and the shows the music always make

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<v Speaker 1>this fifty five year old man cry with joyful anticipation.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you History Kid for letting me creep your weeps,

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<v Speaker 1>and everyone who left reviews this week for serious Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>let's get to the interviews with doctors Natter and Bennett.

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<v Speaker 1>You'll learn about her immunity and vaccine progress, what it's

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<v Speaker 1>been like on the front line, if the virus will mutate,

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<v Speaker 1>if it's seasonal, what ppe we should be wearing, if

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<v Speaker 1>picnics in the park are a good idea and when

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<v Speaker 1>you can hug people again, are handshakes canceled? You will

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<v Speaker 1>find out it starts off tough, explaining the importance of

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<v Speaker 1>having flattened the curve, and by the end you will

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<v Speaker 1>have a clearer picture of the future. So get comfy

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<v Speaker 1>and listen up and then bang on a saucepan and

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<v Speaker 1>applaud into the dusk were physician doctor Mike Natter and

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<v Speaker 1>virologist doctor Shannon Bennett.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, my goal is to not cry in the thirty

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<v Speaker 2>minute chat that we have.

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<v Speaker 1>Please don't feel like you have to stick to that.

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<v Speaker 2>Can I tell you I've been ugly crying like I

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<v Speaker 2>feel like what I imagine a very very pregnant woman

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<v Speaker 2>with like lots of hormones flowing through.

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<v Speaker 1>So you heard doctor Macnatter in the Diabetology episode, and

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<v Speaker 1>you may recall that he is a super sweet, super

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<v Speaker 1>empathetic dude, and he works in a family of three

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<v Speaker 1>hospitals in Manhattan, and he has seen things not on

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<v Speaker 1>the news, not explained via press conference, but firsthand, so

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<v Speaker 1>he knows the real shit. Can you explain to me

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit of what it's been like since early March. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>mid late March.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a lot. There's a lot of volume. We

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<v Speaker 2>had to basically kind of just to give you some scale,

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<v Speaker 2>just to like, and it's always tough because like when

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<v Speaker 2>you're in the hospital, like you see the trees, you

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<v Speaker 2>don't see the forests, so you don't necessarily know what

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<v Speaker 2>everyone else's experience is. So I can really only speak

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<v Speaker 2>to that I was seeing a lot of trees, a

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<v Speaker 2>lot more trees than is typical for this patch of forest,

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<v Speaker 2>So just to give you some scale. The hospital and

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<v Speaker 2>internal medicine works like this. If you come to the

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<v Speaker 2>emergency room, they try and gets you better so that

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<v Speaker 2>you don't have to be admitted if you are sick

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<v Speaker 2>enough to need admission, which unfortunately many of the folks

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<v Speaker 2>that have like really bad COVID do need because their

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<v Speaker 2>oxygenation is so low. If they are sick but not

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<v Speaker 2>too sick, they go to what's called the general floor.

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<v Speaker 2>We call it the floor, or like some people call

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<v Speaker 2>it the ward, the wards. The general medicine floor is

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<v Speaker 2>kind of like you're sick enough to be admitted, but

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<v Speaker 2>you're not on death's door by any means. And then

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<v Speaker 2>if you get sicker, then you go to what we

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<v Speaker 2>call the unit, which is short for the ICU. There's

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<v Speaker 2>different flavors of ICU, but in general they're just all

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<v Speaker 2>acute critical care. On average, there will be in one

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<v Speaker 2>ice you let's say there's maybe thirty forty beds, there

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<v Speaker 2>will be maybe on my particular team, ten to twenty patients,

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<v Speaker 2>of which maybe five to seven of them are intubated

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<v Speaker 2>and very very very sick. The entire ICU, plus a

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<v Speaker 2>million other floors that we had to kind of make

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<v Speaker 2>shift into ICUs, were being overrun with the patients. There

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<v Speaker 2>was hundreds, literally at the peak at this particular hospital,

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<v Speaker 2>I think close to two hundred intubated ventilated ventilator you know,

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<v Speaker 2>necessitating patients. And it was really, really really bad. So

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<v Speaker 2>that was bad, And that was at one particular hospital,

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<v Speaker 2>and then I went to I rotate between another one,

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<v Speaker 2>and the other hospital up the street, which has a

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<v Speaker 2>lot more resources, was even more overrun than that hospital.

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<v Speaker 2>But we had people from surgery, from plastic surgery, from pediatrics,

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<v Speaker 2>from psychiatry, from neurology who we just needed to kind

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<v Speaker 2>of help us essentially with the volume, and so it

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<v Speaker 2>was like an on flought of volume patients.

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<v Speaker 1>What was life like in New York at that time.

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<v Speaker 1>Because you're born in New York, you've lived most of

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<v Speaker 1>your life in New York. What's it like going from

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<v Speaker 1>the hospital is back home every day knowing that that's

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<v Speaker 1>kind of an epicenter in America.

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<v Speaker 2>It's scary. I mean, I think, you know, New Yorkers

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<v Speaker 2>are pretty rough and pretty and nothing really affects anyone

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<v Speaker 2>and everyone kind of no matter what's going on in

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<v Speaker 2>the world, everyone seems to kind of be able to

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<v Speaker 2>do their thing no matter what, and there was this

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<v Speaker 2>clear sense of kind of unity and camaraderie. You know.

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<v Speaker 2>The only other time that I've lived through that felt

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<v Speaker 2>even remotely close, but for very different reasons, I think

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<v Speaker 2>was nine to eleven, and to some degree a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit post Superstorm Sandy. But it just was different, Like

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<v Speaker 2>it's a very different vibe. It's so eerie and very

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<v Speaker 2>uncomfortable and jarring for me to see the streets as

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<v Speaker 2>empty as they are, because that's something that's like a

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<v Speaker 2>constant of New York. The lights are on, people are

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<v Speaker 2>moving around, things are going on, no matter how crazy

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<v Speaker 2>the world gets, and the fact that that's not the

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<v Speaker 2>case was also i think extremely noticeable and jarring. MM hmm.

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<v Speaker 1>How are doctors looking at the curve for New York?

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<v Speaker 1>Where is it at Now we're in that beginning of May.

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<v Speaker 2>It's looking a lot better. I mean, it's all. What

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<v Speaker 2>I would say is thanks to you good leadership from

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<v Speaker 2>Cuomo and some degree to Blasio, because it's the idea

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<v Speaker 2>of shutting things down to limit the spread, and we

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<v Speaker 2>are seeing a massive flattening of the curve for that reason.

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<v Speaker 2>Hospital of mission rates are significantly down. Death rates are

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<v Speaker 2>coming down each day. There still are packed ICUs and

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<v Speaker 2>there's still lots and lots of very, very sick, sick patients,

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<v Speaker 2>but we're able to manage them because the volumes have

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<v Speaker 2>started to settle down. It's almost indefinitely thanks to the

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<v Speaker 2>social distancing and the lockdown and the kind of shelter

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<v Speaker 2>and place orders that have been issued by the governor.

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<v Speaker 1>So a few patrons had questions about symptoms of COVID

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<v Speaker 1>NINETEENVID nineteen is the disease caused by SARS COVID two,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a new type of coronavirus. Coronaviruses are a

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<v Speaker 1>type of virus named for the crown or corona of

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<v Speaker 1>structures on its cell surface that help it bust into ourselves.

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<v Speaker 1>So A recent Center for Evidence Based Medicine article stated

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<v Speaker 1>that between five and eighty percent of people testing positive

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<v Speaker 1>for COVID nineteen may be asymptomatic. Between five and eighty percent. What,

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<v Speaker 1>that's a big range, so we don't totally know how

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<v Speaker 1>many people have it, but experts pretty much settled on

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<v Speaker 1>fifty percent are a symptomatic. Patron Lisa Moore asked about

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<v Speaker 1>neurological symptoms, and in one small Chinese study of two

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<v Speaker 1>hundred and fourteen people hospitalized with COVID nineteen, more than

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<v Speaker 1>a third of them had neurological symptoms like headaches and

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<v Speaker 1>changes in smell and taste, nerve pain tingling in the

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<v Speaker 1>extremities and kind of wooziness and dizziness, and other observed

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<v Speaker 1>neurological effects of COVID nineteen are short term memory loss,

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<v Speaker 1>difficulty concentrating, so it can affect you neurologically. Patron Toby

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<v Speaker 1>Chrisnik asked if there's going to be a second wave,

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<v Speaker 1>will there be new and unknown symptoms? They say, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>already hearing about corona tose, so yes. Other observed symptoms

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<v Speaker 1>of this coronavirus have been coronatose, which are lesions on

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<v Speaker 1>the toes, diarrhea, and perhaps even something called Kawasaki disease,

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<v Speaker 1>which has been seen in some children. It presents a

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<v Speaker 1>little like toxic shock syndrome, with a high fever lasting

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<v Speaker 1>several days, and abdominal pain, vomiting, a bright red or

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<v Speaker 1>what's called a strawberry tongue, and peeling rashes on the

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<v Speaker 1>feet and hands and groin. Other complications of COVID nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>we did not necessarily know much about a few months

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<v Speaker 1>ago are blood clots and stroke, inflamed heart tissue, lung scarring,

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<v Speaker 1>and even issues with male fertility. I know you're like,

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<v Speaker 1>what the fuck are all these symptoms? Why are you

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<v Speaker 1>bumming me out? Dad? Well, there's a chance that you

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<v Speaker 1>or someone you love might have symptoms without realizing it

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<v Speaker 1>is the RONA, So I'm here to tell you now.

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<v Speaker 1>The tough part is that this is a novel virus.

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<v Speaker 1>We've only known about our a few months, so every

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<v Speaker 1>day we get more information. So every day yesterday's information

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<v Speaker 1>might be a little more wrong. But the good news

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<v Speaker 1>is that people are working around the clock on it.

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<v Speaker 1>Doctor Natter explains, that's a good question.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think I think, just speaking generally, a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of the fear around this is that we don't

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<v Speaker 2>know things. Yeah, we don't understand why some people who

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<v Speaker 2>get coronavirus have a sniffle and then they get better,

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<v Speaker 2>or they have a few fevers and they get better,

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<v Speaker 2>and then the same individual with whose I mean, I

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<v Speaker 2>saw very young patients with no cool morbid or past

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<v Speaker 2>medical history who have died, and many others who are

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<v Speaker 2>on dialysis and ECMO machines and emodialysis and ventilators and

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<v Speaker 2>all these things. That doesn't make sense, and so that

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<v Speaker 2>fear is felt really amongst the pop general population, but

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<v Speaker 2>amongst healthcare workers. I think we like to intellectualize as

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<v Speaker 2>a defense mechanism, but you can't intellectualize when you don't

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<v Speaker 2>know and when you see what you're seeing.

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<v Speaker 1>So worldwide, as of this recording, two hundred and eighty

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<v Speaker 1>five thousand, nine hundred and seventy one people are reported

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<v Speaker 1>casualties of the virus, over eighty thousand in the US alone.

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<v Speaker 1>So how is it still spreading any surprises? Myrologist at

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<v Speaker 1>the California Academy of Sciences, doctor Shannon Bennett, explains, Well.

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<v Speaker 3>It's really fascinating. I would say that it's definitely by

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<v Speaker 3>and large behaving as we would have expected the kind

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<v Speaker 3>of the way, which was this sort of steep exponential

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<v Speaker 3>growth rate early on that then flattening and leveling off.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm talking about leveling off in terms of the

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<v Speaker 3>number of daily new cases and the number of daily

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<v Speaker 3>new deaths. In both cases. The one the death's legs

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<v Speaker 3>behind the new cases. But they start to ramp up,

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<v Speaker 3>then they level off such that the number of daily

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<v Speaker 3>new cases is almost the same day over day, maybe

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<v Speaker 3>over a sliding two week a two week window, and

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<v Speaker 3>then it starts to drop down the other side of

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<v Speaker 3>the waves. So here in California we're a big surfing culture.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's just like surfing a wave, you know, you

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<v Speaker 3>go up, flatten, and then down the other side. And

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<v Speaker 3>I do apologize making light of this. This is very serious,

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<v Speaker 3>but it is an effective analogy I think to indicate

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<v Speaker 3>that that, just like an energetic wave in water, then

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<v Speaker 3>the number of cases out there, because any individual case

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<v Speaker 3>is infecting a certain number of other individual cases, and

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<v Speaker 3>that numbers can be pretty high. At the beginning of

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<v Speaker 3>the epidemic, the doubling time was on the order of

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<v Speaker 3>a few days, and then it sort of spread out

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<v Speaker 3>as we flatten the curve, and so that metric represents

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<v Speaker 3>the energy of the virus to push out and push

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<v Speaker 3>through a population, just the way that the energy in

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<v Speaker 3>a wave that we surf behaves. And so the energy

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<v Speaker 3>of that course of infection is becoming dampened as the

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<v Speaker 3>number of daily new cases starts to level off, and

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<v Speaker 3>then that gets reflected in the reduction in the number

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<v Speaker 3>of daily new cases day over day until it's close

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<v Speaker 3>to zero. And that's the bleeding out of the energy

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<v Speaker 3>of that wave as well as that force of infection.

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<v Speaker 3>And so that's the way it's rolled in most countries,

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<v Speaker 3>including our country here in the US. At state by state,

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<v Speaker 3>maybe the intensity, the height of the peak of the

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<v Speaker 3>wave might be a little different. It was certainly the

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<v Speaker 3>highest in New York. And the timing of that wave

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<v Speaker 3>is jittered, so some states hit their exponential growth sooner,

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<v Speaker 3>others have hit it later and to a much lesser extent.

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<v Speaker 3>And what's interesting to me is looking at different states

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<v Speaker 3>or even different countries. Although the form of the wave

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<v Speaker 3>largely plays out the same with some exceptions, we can

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<v Speaker 3>really see how country and states have implemented different policies

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<v Speaker 3>and that kind of plays out on the epidemiologic landscape.

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<v Speaker 3>Like you can really see the difference. You can see

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<v Speaker 3>how different states, for example, really managed to keep that

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<v Speaker 3>curve very low, very flat and delayed start and in

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<v Speaker 3>very quick time have seen it decrease.

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<v Speaker 1>So you're seeing policies have like a direct mathematical effect

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<v Speaker 1>on that curve. Yes, most definitely. Patron Joanna Gebhard asked,

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<v Speaker 1>do we know what the mortality rate is yet? And

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<v Speaker 1>I awkwardly ask doctor Datter how much higher were the

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<v Speaker 1>mortality rates of your patients than you're used to dealing

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<v Speaker 1>with and how.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you passively massively.

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<v Speaker 1>How did you deal with that?

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<v Speaker 2>Not? Well, yeah, yeah, well it's hard. It's really hard.

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<v Speaker 2>While in the hospital. Surprisingly, I think you have like

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<v Speaker 2>a purpose and you have tasks and you're able to,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, kind of get your head down and do

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<v Speaker 2>your work and feel like you're doing something of substance,

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<v Speaker 2>But then coming home is very difficult.

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<v Speaker 1>Do healthcare workers, is there anything any plans in the

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<v Speaker 1>works for how to deal with that emotionally psychologically for

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<v Speaker 1>healthcare workers.

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's a lot of talk. I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>very well understood and known that there's a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>his traumas being kind of dealt with. And I think

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<v Speaker 2>we know that, and I think a lot of our

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<v Speaker 2>colleagues in psychiatry have been really great and they've been

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<v Speaker 2>helping us out, and they're offering us a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>like WebEx therapy sessions and debriefings and having like kind

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<v Speaker 2>of group meetings and stuff, which is great, I think

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<v Speaker 2>for me at least, and I think for most of

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<v Speaker 2>my colleagues, like right now, we're okay. I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>more what's going to happen kind of days, weeks, months,

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<v Speaker 2>and likely years from now that's going to be interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>And I also, like I worry a lot about it,

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<v Speaker 2>Like I have colleagues who've graduated a few months early

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<v Speaker 2>from medical school so they could come join the ranks

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<v Speaker 2>with us. And I think it's so traumatic to be

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<v Speaker 2>an intern to begin with, when you start, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>when you're your first days as a doctor, it's very

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<v Speaker 2>stressful and difficult. And then having to deal with this

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<v Speaker 2>whole pandemic as your first kind of soare into medicine,

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<v Speaker 2>I think is you know, could potentially sow some seeds

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<v Speaker 2>of trauma.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, how about how about actual PPE? How how well

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<v Speaker 1>protected are you all? Now?

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<v Speaker 2>We're good. I feel as though I don't think I've

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<v Speaker 2>ever been without, you know, having actual PP. My institution

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<v Speaker 2>has been pretty good. There's three hospitals in my institution,

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<v Speaker 2>and one is a public hospital of New York, which

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<v Speaker 2>is obviously like less fund than others, but the amount

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<v Speaker 2>of donations and people coming out has been just like phenomenal,

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<v Speaker 2>the people pouring in either actual money to get PP

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<v Speaker 2>or actual PP, and then obviously food. There's like signs

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<v Speaker 2>and chalk on the street, there's everything you can imagine,

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<v Speaker 2>free scrubs and all this stuff. So we're being very

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<v Speaker 2>much showered and pampered, which is great, and it feels

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<v Speaker 2>kind of I feel kind of shitty in that, like

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<v Speaker 2>there is such a need for food, like in the country,

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<v Speaker 2>and there's like a lot of food banks that are

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<v Speaker 2>going dry, and we literally are just in an dated

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<v Speaker 2>with food, like really really good food. And I always

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<v Speaker 2>feel so bad when I'm like, you know, there's some

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<v Speaker 2>of this food really needs to be diverted to some

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<v Speaker 2>of these these other places that need it.

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<v Speaker 1>At Doctor Natter's Behest, we made a donation to Food

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<v Speaker 1>Bank for New York City in his name. So that's

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<v Speaker 1>twenty five hundred more meals will be made possible in

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<v Speaker 1>the New York area by him mentioning that to us.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for the heads up, doctor Natter. Now, if up

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<v Speaker 1>to eighty percent of folks with it are asymptomatic, how

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<v Speaker 1>many people have or have been infected with SARS kobe too?

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<v Speaker 1>Doctor Bennett says, what we see is probably the tip

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<v Speaker 1>of an infection iceberg. Do doctors have any idea because

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<v Speaker 1>testing is just so like rare testing in the general population,

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<v Speaker 1>do we have any idea what the mortality rate of

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<v Speaker 1>this is.

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<v Speaker 2>We have a sense, but I think, like you you

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<v Speaker 2>you tapped onto the way we you know, calculate rates

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<v Speaker 2>is that you need to have a numerator and a

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<v Speaker 2>denominator to figure out all of this, and right, the

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<v Speaker 2>denominator is based on if you've tested someone. I think

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<v Speaker 2>we've caught up a little bit in terms of testing.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of miscommunication and kind of guidelines that

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<v Speaker 2>were shifting in terms of who should get tested, when

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<v Speaker 2>they should get tested. Oftentimes to not overload the er,

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<v Speaker 2>we would tell people if you have symptoms, but you're

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<v Speaker 2>not short of breath or you're not becoming hypoxic to

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<v Speaker 2>really not come in, because we have people that would

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<v Speaker 2>overrun the ED to get tested when they weren't sick

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<v Speaker 2>enough to necessarily need to be admitted, and then they

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<v Speaker 2>were basically either exposing themselves in the ED or creating

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<v Speaker 2>more volume for the emergency UMAN physicians that they couldn't handle.

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<v Speaker 1>This week, the President of the United States, and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>just going to quote this in a very neutral informational way,

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<v Speaker 1>said quote, by doing all of this testing, we make

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<v Speaker 1>ourselves look bad because the case numbers go up. Oh wow,

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<v Speaker 1>So there is that information now. I checked in with

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<v Speaker 1>doctor Michael Wells, who we spoke with for the All Washed,

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<v Speaker 1>Hands on Deck episode in late March, and I got

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<v Speaker 1>an update from him just today on his database of

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<v Speaker 1>scientists willing to help with the testing, and he said, quote,

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<v Speaker 1>the database has now exceeded ninety three hundred scientists from

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<v Speaker 1>all fifty states side note, yes, Wyoming, you did it,

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<v Speaker 1>also DC, Guam and Puerto Rico. And he now has

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<v Speaker 1>a large team of coordinators, many of whom found out

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<v Speaker 1>about the database through ologies, which is awesome to hear.

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<v Speaker 1>A way to go, y'all, He says, scientists from our

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<v Speaker 1>database are helping process tests in Los Angeles, DC and Michigan.

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<v Speaker 1>We even had a few visit SpaceX in Los Angeles

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<v Speaker 1>to help with some of their COVID nineteen efforts, and

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<v Speaker 1>we are spending a majority of our time actively seeking

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<v Speaker 1>additional volunteer opportunities across the country. They have a new

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<v Speaker 1>website so people can keep updated on their activities, and

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<v Speaker 1>I will put a link to those in the show notes.

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<v Speaker 1>Many of you patrons asked about testing, such as Rachel

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<v Speaker 1>Weiss and Ira Gray and Sophia Dill asked what is

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<v Speaker 1>happening with testing and when will we have testing widely available? Sophia,

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<v Speaker 1>I appreciate your triple and Tara bang on that question.

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<v Speaker 3>We really need to broaden the testing and the kind

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<v Speaker 3>of testing that's happening, you know, it's really we're we're

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<v Speaker 3>starting to test here in San Francisco. Anybody with symptoms

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<v Speaker 3>associated with somebody with any symptoms can get a free test.

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<v Speaker 3>This is a PCR based test, so it's a test

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<v Speaker 3>that looks for the direct presence of the virus. So

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<v Speaker 3>it's no point, you know, running off to get tested

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<v Speaker 3>if you have the virus or you thought you had

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<v Speaker 3>the virus three weeks ago. It's really just measuring the

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<v Speaker 3>direct presence of virus at the moment that the test

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<v Speaker 3>that the sample is drawn, so it has a very

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<v Speaker 3>short applicability.

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<v Speaker 1>Megan McLean asked about the depth that they plumb into

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<v Speaker 1>your nasshole, asking quote, why does the test swab have

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<v Speaker 1>to go so far up into your noggin to get results?

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<v Speaker 1>And that six inch splunking. I looked it up. It's

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<v Speaker 1>hitting the back of the naso pharynx, which is where

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<v Speaker 1>your sinuses meet the back of your throat, kind of

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<v Speaker 1>like a taint. But for your mouth knows will you

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<v Speaker 1>have to do this twice? If this thing you take

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<v Speaker 1>Many of you, including Eric Astairs, Russa Holtzmann, Anna Okrazinski, Maddox,

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<v Speaker 1>Cameron Stewart, Stephanie enkl, Anna Thompson, Don Swart, and Kevin

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<v Speaker 1>Lay wanted to know about strains and mutations now. A

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<v Speaker 1>paper came out just in late April by the Los

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<v Speaker 1>Alamos National Lab that noted the G strain of the

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<v Speaker 1>virus is more prevalent in Europe and on the East

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<v Speaker 1>coast of the US, and speculated that it's a more

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<v Speaker 1>of uralin form, but that paper has not yet been

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<v Speaker 1>peer reviewed, and many other scientists say there's pretty much

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<v Speaker 1>only one strain. Coronaviruses apparently mutate at one tenth of

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<v Speaker 1>the rate as influenza, and that G strain may have

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<v Speaker 1>just by chance become more prevalent. It might just be

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<v Speaker 1>a lucky virus with good odds and not necessarily more

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<v Speaker 1>dangerous or more infectious. So jury is still very much

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<v Speaker 1>out on that. Now, if you've had COVID nineteen, are

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<v Speaker 1>you immune if it mutates?

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<v Speaker 2>Even if you do have immunity, when does it start

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<v Speaker 2>to wane? So are you going to be immune for

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<v Speaker 2>a couple of weeks, a couple of months, a couple

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<v Speaker 2>of years forever, We don't know. And then is this

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<v Speaker 2>virus possibly able to mutate? And if it mutates, then

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<v Speaker 2>maybe your immunity is not going to be useful. And

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<v Speaker 2>the best example of that is the flu. So the

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<v Speaker 2>flu is a virus, and you have to get a

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<v Speaker 2>flu vaccine every year because there's something called antigenic drift

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<v Speaker 2>and antigenic shift, and what that means is that their

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<v Speaker 2>DNA is very susceptible to mutation, and so you get

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<v Speaker 2>these tiny little mutations and that's just enough for it

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<v Speaker 2>to basically kind of evade the antibodies from the previous season.

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<v Speaker 2>That's not a coronavirus, So maybe it's not the same mechanism.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, but no one knows. Now. That being said,

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<v Speaker 2>if you have antibodies and you get tested positive for

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<v Speaker 2>these antibodies, that should not mean that you're less vigilant

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<v Speaker 2>about how you go about your life. It might give

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<v Speaker 2>you a little bit of mental solace, which is good.

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<v Speaker 2>But you should still wear your mask, you should still

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<v Speaker 2>be careful, you should still wash your hands. It's just

419
00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:57.000
<v Speaker 2>still socially distant when you can all of those things

420
00:23:57.000 --> 00:23:59.240
<v Speaker 2>still apply. The other thing I want to say is

421
00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:01.599
<v Speaker 2>that the antibody tests, and this is actually very interesting.

422
00:24:01.640 --> 00:24:06.400
<v Speaker 2>So we were so behind on the diagnostic PCR test

423
00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:08.160
<v Speaker 2>that basically do you have COVID or do you not

424
00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:12.319
<v Speaker 2>have COVID tests? And that was in part because the

425
00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:15.640
<v Speaker 2>FDA was so heavily regulating how those tests got rolled out,

426
00:24:16.519 --> 00:24:19.200
<v Speaker 2>which is what their job is. But in this pandemic

427
00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:22.680
<v Speaker 2>they really kind of put lay the book down and

428
00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:27.759
<v Speaker 2>said like, no, you can't you you know, Medical Academic

429
00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:30.599
<v Speaker 2>Center X can't make your own diagnostic test, even though

430
00:24:30.599 --> 00:24:32.200
<v Speaker 2>you have a lab and you have their utilities to

431
00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:34.480
<v Speaker 2>do so, because we need to regulate it. And that

432
00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:36.960
<v Speaker 2>was part of the reason why it took so long

433
00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:40.640
<v Speaker 2>to get a wider diagnostic test out there. They went

434
00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:42.880
<v Speaker 2>so far on the other end of the spectrum with

435
00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:45.400
<v Speaker 2>the antibody test, and they went to the free markets

436
00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:47.680
<v Speaker 2>that have at it. Do it as much as quickly

437
00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:50.759
<v Speaker 2>and as many as you can. And what that spawned

438
00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:55.680
<v Speaker 2>was a very large spectrum of reliable antibody tests. And

439
00:24:55.720 --> 00:24:59.960
<v Speaker 2>so the same antibody tests from a different manufacturer made

440
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:02.960
<v Speaker 2>not give you the same reliable tests, meaning you can

441
00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:05.839
<v Speaker 2>get false positives, false negatives, and you can imagine what

442
00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:07.920
<v Speaker 2>that would mean if you get a false positive saying

443
00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:11.359
<v Speaker 2>yes you have antibodies, yeah, and people that maybe get

444
00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:13.119
<v Speaker 2>a little less vigilant, and then you're gonna have a

445
00:25:13.160 --> 00:25:13.799
<v Speaker 2>lot of problems.

446
00:25:14.119 --> 00:25:17.079
<v Speaker 1>So a bunch of patrons like Crystal Mendoza, Oda, Helene Chatz,

447
00:25:17.319 --> 00:25:20.319
<v Speaker 1>Michelle Neir, Gwen, Kelly Mariese, the Holsman, and first time

448
00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:23.799
<v Speaker 1>question asker John C. Faludi wanted to know about antibody

449
00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:25.759
<v Speaker 1>tests and errors in testing.

450
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:28.799
<v Speaker 3>Antibody tests have to be validated to show that they're

451
00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:32.799
<v Speaker 3>sensitive enough to pick it up and specific enough to

452
00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:39.839
<v Speaker 3>distinguish between this stars Cove two virus versus other related viruses,

453
00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:44.880
<v Speaker 3>and a lot of those validation tests are still ongoing.

454
00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:49.160
<v Speaker 3>It's very very very much a work in progress, and

455
00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:51.759
<v Speaker 3>in many cases, if those tests are being done by

456
00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:56.880
<v Speaker 3>commercial labs, there's not always full transparency into the rates

457
00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:00.559
<v Speaker 3>of false positive or false negative results. Know, there's no

458
00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:04.680
<v Speaker 3>point getting a blood sample drawn for a PCR test

459
00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:07.200
<v Speaker 3>because it turns out that the virus is mostly in

460
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:13.200
<v Speaker 3>your your mucus membranes, in your nasofringial passage and lungs.

461
00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:16.559
<v Speaker 3>But an antibody test is actually going to want to

462
00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:19.480
<v Speaker 3>look for the antibodies in your blood stream because it's

463
00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:21.519
<v Speaker 3>not you don't build up a lot of antibodies in

464
00:26:21.559 --> 00:26:24.000
<v Speaker 3>your nasofringial and by the way, that you don't build

465
00:26:24.039 --> 00:26:27.640
<v Speaker 3>up antibodies until at least ten maybe fifteen days when

466
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:34.079
<v Speaker 3>you start after the virus is cleared, so it's really

467
00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:37.480
<v Speaker 3>challenging or in some cases after the symptoms start. So

468
00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:40.279
<v Speaker 3>it's a when you take the sample and what kind

469
00:26:40.359 --> 00:26:43.240
<v Speaker 3>of test and from which tissue type it's taken from,

470
00:26:43.880 --> 00:26:48.200
<v Speaker 3>and how how much virus you had in your system

471
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:52.160
<v Speaker 3>are all important variables that can change the outcome of

472
00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:54.359
<v Speaker 3>the test in an artifactual way.

473
00:26:54.920 --> 00:26:57.440
<v Speaker 1>So can you get it twice? Now? A study out

474
00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:01.039
<v Speaker 1>of South Korea thought maybe yes, and then they realized

475
00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:04.440
<v Speaker 1>that their tests were so good, so sensitive that they

476
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:08.400
<v Speaker 1>were just detecting old fragments of the first infection. So

477
00:27:08.519 --> 00:27:12.200
<v Speaker 1>that is good news now. Patrons Jen Anathys, Jessica Jansen,

478
00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:16.200
<v Speaker 1>Carolyn Wolfram, Patti Bergman, Jenny Hoover, Ellen Skelton, Mike Munakowski,

479
00:27:16.400 --> 00:27:18.319
<v Speaker 1>and Zoe Buckley wanted to know, can we get it

480
00:27:18.359 --> 00:27:19.599
<v Speaker 1>like a double whammy.

481
00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:23.599
<v Speaker 3>If you had it in January and now you're exposed again.

482
00:27:23.799 --> 00:27:27.799
<v Speaker 3>We don't think so. Almost all evidence indicates that you

483
00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:32.799
<v Speaker 3>cannot get it again, because you do develop immunity, some

484
00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:38.400
<v Speaker 3>degree of protective immunity. What we don't know is how

485
00:27:38.519 --> 00:27:43.160
<v Speaker 3>long that protective immunity lasts. So you know, it might

486
00:27:43.240 --> 00:27:48.079
<v Speaker 3>be that either the virus evolves away from what your

487
00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:51.920
<v Speaker 3>immune system has trained on, or it might be that

488
00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:55.119
<v Speaker 3>your own immune response is maybe not that effective. When

489
00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:58.200
<v Speaker 3>you get a virus deep into your lungs, there's a

490
00:27:58.319 --> 00:28:02.359
<v Speaker 3>really amazing blood viral interactions so that you can develop

491
00:28:02.359 --> 00:28:05.680
<v Speaker 3>a really strong immune response to viruses that infect you

492
00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:09.200
<v Speaker 3>at that sort of intimate level. But the viruses we

493
00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:13.039
<v Speaker 3>get in our nasophryngial passages, the common colds, we never

494
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:17.480
<v Speaker 3>really develop anything but very transient immunity because we don't

495
00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:21.880
<v Speaker 3>there's no opportunity to really have that nice viral blood

496
00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:24.960
<v Speaker 3>bath interaction to really develop the strong immune.

497
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:26.839
<v Speaker 2>Response let the blood that begin.

498
00:28:27.400 --> 00:28:30.759
<v Speaker 3>So with common colds, we only ever get transient immunity,

499
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:34.839
<v Speaker 3>and then the next season, next year, we can get

500
00:28:34.839 --> 00:28:37.599
<v Speaker 3>the same cold, and so it goes over and over again,

501
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:41.279
<v Speaker 3>year over year. So the big question is will we

502
00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:46.680
<v Speaker 3>develop protective immunity to severe disease to viral pneumonia, but

503
00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:49.279
<v Speaker 3>will this virus then sort of kick up a new

504
00:28:49.720 --> 00:28:52.720
<v Speaker 3>quasi existence as sort of a common cold like virus

505
00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:56.880
<v Speaker 3>where we never really develop a protective immunity to, but

506
00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:01.079
<v Speaker 3>only transient immunity to more upper respiratory type virus.

507
00:29:01.160 --> 00:29:02.720
<v Speaker 1>I asked doctor Natter about that too.

508
00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:05.640
<v Speaker 2>So it's a very good question. The truth is, we

509
00:29:05.759 --> 00:29:10.559
<v Speaker 2>don't know the answer yet, but we think that if

510
00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:12.480
<v Speaker 2>you look at just like what we know in science

511
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:17.079
<v Speaker 2>medical science typically speaking, when your immune system gets introduced

512
00:29:17.160 --> 00:29:20.680
<v Speaker 2>to an antigen or a foreign invader like a virus

513
00:29:20.799 --> 00:29:24.039
<v Speaker 2>or a bacterium or something along those lines. Your immune system.

514
00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:27.119
<v Speaker 2>One path of your immune system is to make antibodies

515
00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:30.519
<v Speaker 2>in order to fight that off. Your body then has

516
00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:33.680
<v Speaker 2>things called memory cells or plasma cells that then essentially

517
00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:36.920
<v Speaker 2>turn into these factories of that specific antibody, and they

518
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:39.640
<v Speaker 2>just crank them out, and that's how you develop an immunity.

519
00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:43.200
<v Speaker 1>Marisa Holsman and Emma Fury wanted to know about herd immunity,

520
00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:45.960
<v Speaker 1>and in patron Wayne Hovey's words, how does this herd

521
00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:48.079
<v Speaker 1>immunity thing work? So, as long as I had a

522
00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:51.119
<v Speaker 1>smart virologist on the line, I asked this stupid question

523
00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:52.319
<v Speaker 1>for all of us.

524
00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:53.720
<v Speaker 2>No such thing.

525
00:29:55.480 --> 00:29:58.160
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I don't quite understand. And we all come out

526
00:29:58.240 --> 00:30:01.440
<v Speaker 1>of isolation. How are we not going to just keep

527
00:30:01.519 --> 00:30:02.079
<v Speaker 1>spreading it?

528
00:30:02.119 --> 00:30:02.359
<v Speaker 2>Again?

529
00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:05.279
<v Speaker 1>From an epidemiological standpoint, what is going to happen in

530
00:30:05.319 --> 00:30:07.680
<v Speaker 1>a couple of months when we're all out and about

531
00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:08.480
<v Speaker 1>like we used to be?

532
00:30:08.839 --> 00:30:12.559
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean this is this is a really important concept.

533
00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:18.640
<v Speaker 3>It relates back to this concept of herd immunity, and

534
00:30:18.759 --> 00:30:23.319
<v Speaker 3>it's it's recognizing that there's a certain proportion of people

535
00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:26.319
<v Speaker 3>that we may interact with in our in our populations

536
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:29.680
<v Speaker 3>that might have had the virus and be immune, so

537
00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:35.359
<v Speaker 3>they're no longer susceptible. So what we assume is that

538
00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:38.559
<v Speaker 3>that you know, when the epidemic wave starts to drop,

539
00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:43.640
<v Speaker 3>two things are happening. For whatever reason, policy wise or

540
00:30:44.079 --> 00:30:48.359
<v Speaker 3>or not. The energy in the wave has bled out

541
00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:51.960
<v Speaker 3>because you know, there aren't as many infected spreading the

542
00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:55.920
<v Speaker 3>virus to as many susceptibles, and so we can we

543
00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:59.880
<v Speaker 3>can impact that wave by reducing the number of infected,

544
00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:04.680
<v Speaker 3>which you know, we isolate people and their opportunity to

545
00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:09.240
<v Speaker 3>impact susceptibles, to interact with susceptibles. So we're reducing those buckets.

546
00:31:09.240 --> 00:31:12.880
<v Speaker 3>But when we all go back out and we've seen

547
00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:17.599
<v Speaker 3>this in China, you know, why didn't the virus flare

548
00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:23.400
<v Speaker 3>back up to pre peak of the wave levels? And

549
00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:27.559
<v Speaker 3>so it's you know, we presume that the virus is

550
00:31:27.640 --> 00:31:32.759
<v Speaker 3>basically run out of susceptibles that a certain number of

551
00:31:32.839 --> 00:31:37.119
<v Speaker 3>infecteds might run into. So there's like, you know, how

552
00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:41.119
<v Speaker 3>many infecteds are circulating, how many susceptibles might they run into?

553
00:31:41.319 --> 00:31:44.680
<v Speaker 3>So are there hotspots of transmission? For example, are there

554
00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:47.680
<v Speaker 3>these sort of key sectors in the public domain where

555
00:31:47.720 --> 00:31:52.160
<v Speaker 3>people would more likely exchange virus. And that's why people

556
00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:55.960
<v Speaker 3>are thinking about different scenarios when we all go back

557
00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:59.319
<v Speaker 3>out there, you know, maybe we'll be we'll be getting

558
00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:02.200
<v Speaker 3>back up there slowly where we may try to put

559
00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:07.640
<v Speaker 3>in place some social distancing mechanisms or you know, trickle

560
00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:10.519
<v Speaker 3>back in so that we can keep that contact right

561
00:32:10.599 --> 00:32:16.240
<v Speaker 3>between infecteds and susceptibles lo all the while we try

562
00:32:16.279 --> 00:32:20.240
<v Speaker 3>to understand the base herd immunity, like how many people

563
00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:24.000
<v Speaker 3>truly were impacted and might be immune, So those susceptibles

564
00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:26.119
<v Speaker 3>would be sort of taken out of the equation because

565
00:32:26.119 --> 00:32:31.400
<v Speaker 3>they're not susceptible, they're immune. So, you know, we're looking

566
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:34.240
<v Speaker 3>empirically at kind of the way things are rolling in

567
00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:36.400
<v Speaker 3>other countries that have seen the end of the wave

568
00:32:36.440 --> 00:32:40.079
<v Speaker 3>and have opened back up. They haven't experienced a resurgence,

569
00:32:40.119 --> 00:32:41.160
<v Speaker 3>but they're doing a.

570
00:32:41.079 --> 00:32:42.720
<v Speaker 1>Lot of things.

571
00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:46.880
<v Speaker 3>They had a wave, they definitely have some herd immunity,

572
00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:51.799
<v Speaker 3>but they're also coupling that with social distancing measures.

573
00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:54.160
<v Speaker 1>What if you have had it and want to put

574
00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:56.519
<v Speaker 1>your body fluids to good use. Well, according to the

575
00:32:56.519 --> 00:32:59.960
<v Speaker 1>Red Cross, people who have fully recovered from COVID nineteen

576
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:02.960
<v Speaker 1>have antibodies in their plasma that can attack the virus,

577
00:33:03.079 --> 00:33:06.920
<v Speaker 1>and this convalescent plasma is being evaluated as a treatment

578
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:10.880
<v Speaker 1>for patients with serious or immediately life threatening COVID infections,

579
00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:15.920
<v Speaker 1>so it's called convalescent plasma. Patrons Gwen Kelly, Anakin, Jeniak,

580
00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:18.680
<v Speaker 1>and Marissa Holsman wanted to know about it. Is there

581
00:33:18.839 --> 00:33:24.359
<v Speaker 1>a way to donate like plasma if you do have antibodies?

582
00:33:24.200 --> 00:33:25.680
<v Speaker 1>Does that even work?

583
00:33:26.440 --> 00:33:28.799
<v Speaker 2>So it's a good question. Yes, there's plenty of ways

584
00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:31.079
<v Speaker 2>you can do that. I think you have to reach

585
00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:33.720
<v Speaker 2>out to your local kind of hospital, your local academic

586
00:33:33.720 --> 00:33:35.559
<v Speaker 2>hospital to find out how they're doing it and where

587
00:33:35.599 --> 00:33:37.960
<v Speaker 2>to go. I know that in New York for sure,

588
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:41.640
<v Speaker 2>Mount Sinai and NY you are doing that. But the

589
00:33:41.720 --> 00:33:43.599
<v Speaker 2>way that works is actually very interesting. So it's not

590
00:33:43.880 --> 00:33:47.359
<v Speaker 2>a blood donation as much as it is a plasma donation,

591
00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:50.880
<v Speaker 2>or rather transfusion. And the difference between blood and plasma.

592
00:33:51.359 --> 00:33:53.519
<v Speaker 2>Plasma makes up part of the blood. So the blood

593
00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:55.519
<v Speaker 2>is a bunch of cells, it's got white cells and

594
00:33:55.680 --> 00:33:58.799
<v Speaker 2>red cells and a bunch of other stuff, but also

595
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:01.359
<v Speaker 2>has plasma. Plasma's kind of like gatorade portion if you

596
00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:02.599
<v Speaker 2>took out all the rest of the stuff. You get

597
00:34:02.599 --> 00:34:05.000
<v Speaker 2>this kind of like yellowee fluid. It's kind of all

598
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:07.079
<v Speaker 2>the electrolytes and all the good stuff. But in addition

599
00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:11.000
<v Speaker 2>to having all that, it has your antibodies. So if

600
00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:17.599
<v Speaker 2>you had coronavirus, you got better, you got tested for antibodies,

601
00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:20.079
<v Speaker 2>and you're positive and you're healthy and you're able to

602
00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:22.719
<v Speaker 2>donate blood, then you might be someone that could donate

603
00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:26.320
<v Speaker 2>your plasma. They then they do what's called the centrifu,

604
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:28.239
<v Speaker 2>so they kind of spin it really fast to separate

605
00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:30.719
<v Speaker 2>the plasma from the blood, and they take that plasma

606
00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:33.400
<v Speaker 2>and they can then give it to someone who's very,

607
00:34:33.480 --> 00:34:38.159
<v Speaker 2>very sick who has COVID at that time, theoretically giving

608
00:34:38.199 --> 00:34:41.239
<v Speaker 2>them the actual antibodies, so that the body hasn't made

609
00:34:41.280 --> 00:34:43.159
<v Speaker 2>the antibodies yet you're giving it to them, they get better.

610
00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:46.440
<v Speaker 2>We think this might help. Back in the day, they

611
00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:48.760
<v Speaker 2>would do this and there was some evidence for it.

612
00:34:49.159 --> 00:34:51.920
<v Speaker 2>We're still testing it, so we still don't have the

613
00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:54.679
<v Speaker 2>hard evidence, the hard data to say it will. The

614
00:34:54.760 --> 00:34:57.400
<v Speaker 2>science suggests that it should. Same idea with if you

615
00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:00.039
<v Speaker 2>have tested positive for antibodies, then the science says you

616
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:03.440
<v Speaker 2>should have some immunity. We think but until we have

617
00:35:03.519 --> 00:35:05.840
<v Speaker 2>the numbers and the objective data, you can't say for sure.

618
00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:09.159
<v Speaker 1>And what about the effects on our hearts and by hearts,

619
00:35:09.159 --> 00:35:12.760
<v Speaker 1>I mean brains. I just think that there's more of

620
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:18.400
<v Speaker 1>a psychological impact that we maybe won't understand until you know,

621
00:35:18.440 --> 00:35:20.440
<v Speaker 1>you touched on PTSD. But yeah, I think that there

622
00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:25.400
<v Speaker 1>is a certain kind of psychological trauma of being scared

623
00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:29.519
<v Speaker 1>of this invisible thing that could kill you, or if

624
00:35:29.559 --> 00:35:32.920
<v Speaker 1>you go into the store to go buy soup, that

625
00:35:33.039 --> 00:35:35.559
<v Speaker 1>you could end up killing seven people by doing it.

626
00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:38.239
<v Speaker 1>You know, you would never I would never handle a

627
00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:42.320
<v Speaker 1>live firearm, much less just start shooting into an open crowd.

628
00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:45.639
<v Speaker 1>So it's kind of like, you know, that level of

629
00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:48.119
<v Speaker 1>fear I think is probably pretty exhausting for people.

630
00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:51.079
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, and I think for better for words, I

631
00:35:51.079 --> 00:35:54.440
<v Speaker 2>think people are like becoming less vigilant and anxious, and

632
00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:56.599
<v Speaker 2>so that's good in some ways, I think for mentality,

633
00:35:56.840 --> 00:35:59.480
<v Speaker 2>but I think it's also dangerous because as people are

634
00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:02.559
<v Speaker 2>letting up, obviously there's going to be a lot more

635
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:05.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, potential for outbreaks and so on.

636
00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:08.800
<v Speaker 1>So, as we mentioned in the first Virology episode, one

637
00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:12.239
<v Speaker 1>of the reasons COVID nineteen spreads so effectively. Is that

638
00:36:12.679 --> 00:36:17.079
<v Speaker 1>unlike SARS one, it's transmissible even when you don't have symptoms,

639
00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:19.639
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of people don't have symptoms. Now, a

640
00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:23.000
<v Speaker 1>bunch of patrons like Katya Nizzick, Gwen Kelly and A Thompson,

641
00:36:23.079 --> 00:36:27.480
<v Speaker 1>Jennifer Lowe, Yano Wiznuski, Gillian Klug and Atalie, Jamie Pickles

642
00:36:27.519 --> 00:36:30.760
<v Speaker 1>and Marissa Laws wanted to know what we've learned about

643
00:36:30.760 --> 00:36:35.360
<v Speaker 1>how it's transmitted, like how far can our juicy, infectious

644
00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:38.719
<v Speaker 1>droplets travel and why is it important to wear masks?

645
00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:40.920
<v Speaker 1>And why is social distancing so important?

646
00:36:41.199 --> 00:36:44.960
<v Speaker 3>You know, Originally we you know, we were kind of assuming,

647
00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:46.519
<v Speaker 3>or a lot of people were assuming. You know this,

648
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:50.719
<v Speaker 3>the pathology of this virus is viral pneumonia. So we

649
00:36:51.199 --> 00:36:54.039
<v Speaker 3>recognized that it was binding to cells in the respiratory

650
00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:58.039
<v Speaker 3>tract at a large scale in the lower respiratory tract,

651
00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:04.440
<v Speaker 3>and then you know, transmitting through viral pneumonia like symptoms

652
00:37:04.760 --> 00:37:07.599
<v Speaker 3>causing disease like viral p amumonia. And those symptoms were

653
00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:12.480
<v Speaker 3>like these explosive coughs and sneezes, and so that's bringing

654
00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:15.880
<v Speaker 3>droplets from deep into deep, you know, deep within your

655
00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:19.440
<v Speaker 3>lungs up and out and spreading the virus. So what

656
00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:24.719
<v Speaker 3>we've learned since is that this virus also pretty efficiently

657
00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:30.079
<v Speaker 3>infects the upper nasopharyngeal passages and tissues. So you know,

658
00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:35.199
<v Speaker 3>it is infecting those mucous membranes in your nasal passages,

659
00:37:35.239 --> 00:37:37.960
<v Speaker 3>for example, even before it gets into your lungs and

660
00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:42.639
<v Speaker 3>can potentially infect your lung tissue. And that means that, wow,

661
00:37:42.679 --> 00:37:48.280
<v Speaker 3>that that possibly suggests that you know, maybe the virus

662
00:37:48.360 --> 00:37:53.320
<v Speaker 3>could pretty efficiently transmit through the products from our upper

663
00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:57.400
<v Speaker 3>nato feryngial passage, like you know, maybe if you clear

664
00:37:57.440 --> 00:37:59.679
<v Speaker 3>your throat, or you just have a tickle like a

665
00:37:59.800 --> 00:38:03.639
<v Speaker 3>light cough, or maybe you're breathing very heavily from exercising.

666
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:07.079
<v Speaker 3>And so you'll notice there was a change in policy.

667
00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:11.719
<v Speaker 3>Like two sources of information came together. One that from

668
00:38:11.760 --> 00:38:18.159
<v Speaker 3>the population level perspective, all the estimates of how transmissible

669
00:38:18.199 --> 00:38:21.840
<v Speaker 3>this virus was was pretty high, suggesting that you know,

670
00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:26.880
<v Speaker 3>it's maybe not just people with severe disease products that

671
00:38:26.920 --> 00:38:30.360
<v Speaker 3>are you know, spreading the virus, but rather than maybe

672
00:38:30.440 --> 00:38:34.480
<v Speaker 3>more people could spread it asymptomatically through breath or light

673
00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:38.920
<v Speaker 3>coughs or tickles. And then there was also some laboratory

674
00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:42.679
<v Speaker 3>data that showed, especially in hospital settings, when we use

675
00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:47.360
<v Speaker 3>equipment like ventilators, we can nebulize the virus into tiny

676
00:38:47.480 --> 00:38:50.119
<v Speaker 3>the tiniest tiniest droplets, and these are like a millionth

677
00:38:50.119 --> 00:38:54.239
<v Speaker 3>of a meter so point point one microns. Uh, they

678
00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:57.079
<v Speaker 3>can the virus can float in the air for up

679
00:38:57.079 --> 00:39:00.360
<v Speaker 3>to three hours through the tiniest of droplets. Now, when

680
00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:04.119
<v Speaker 3>we cough or sneeze, there's a very very small fraction

681
00:39:04.199 --> 00:39:07.239
<v Speaker 3>of droplets that are that tiny, so most of the

682
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:10.239
<v Speaker 3>droplets will fall down. They're bigger, they fall out of

683
00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:13.880
<v Speaker 3>the air at that six foot level. But because there

684
00:39:14.119 --> 00:39:17.239
<v Speaker 3>could be a very very small fraction of the tiniest

685
00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:20.400
<v Speaker 3>of Chinese particles that could have the virus, that's really

686
00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:23.519
<v Speaker 3>why we started. Why you could see policy changed to

687
00:39:23.679 --> 00:39:27.960
<v Speaker 3>have masks, even cloth homemade mask be worn as a

688
00:39:28.079 --> 00:39:30.079
<v Speaker 3>general protective measure.

689
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:34.039
<v Speaker 1>A lot of you asked about masks, like Casey Wright says, masks,

690
00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:37.159
<v Speaker 1>what's the real scoop on them? Jessica krag Yvon Bustos,

691
00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:40.760
<v Speaker 1>Don Swartz, Edgar, Velita Ellen Silva, Syracule, Debra n and

692
00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:44.000
<v Speaker 1>Kathleen Ma wanted to know what masks are the best

693
00:39:44.039 --> 00:39:45.960
<v Speaker 1>to be wearing Now, Doctor Bennett told me she wears

694
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:49.599
<v Speaker 1>a homemade triple layer, high quality, high thread count cotton

695
00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:53.840
<v Speaker 1>fabric mask. It's fitted around her nose with bendable wires

696
00:39:54.199 --> 00:39:57.519
<v Speaker 1>and it's two layers of that high thread count cotton

697
00:39:57.760 --> 00:40:00.719
<v Speaker 1>with a layer of pantyhose. And now searchers think a

698
00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:04.800
<v Speaker 1>strip of pantyhose nylon stocking can also be tied over

699
00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:07.679
<v Speaker 1>a fabric mask to help seal the gaps between your

700
00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:10.559
<v Speaker 1>face and the mask. Mind the gaps. Let's say you're

701
00:40:10.599 --> 00:40:13.519
<v Speaker 1>just using a flappy cowboy bandana, it's better to at

702
00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:16.599
<v Speaker 1>least tuck it into your shirt. Now, Doctor Natter wears

703
00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:19.599
<v Speaker 1>a respirator used for spray painting, and that filters out

704
00:40:19.639 --> 00:40:22.440
<v Speaker 1>he says, about ninety nine percent of particulates, and it

705
00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:25.599
<v Speaker 1>has changeable filters. What about if you're going running or biking,

706
00:40:25.960 --> 00:40:26.559
<v Speaker 1>wear a mask.

707
00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:31.400
<v Speaker 3>So a mask is protecting both you from shedding virus.

708
00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:35.039
<v Speaker 3>And remember up to you know, there's a huge variability

709
00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:41.239
<v Speaker 3>in asymptomatic rates people that are undetected symptoms. Right, so

710
00:40:41.480 --> 00:40:44.400
<v Speaker 3>it ranges from I think thirty to eighty five percent,

711
00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:47.360
<v Speaker 3>with an average of fifty percent, So you might be infected.

712
00:40:48.119 --> 00:40:53.159
<v Speaker 3>So a mask protects you from shedding virus, not completely,

713
00:40:53.239 --> 00:40:57.000
<v Speaker 3>but it blocks big droplets, for example, and it also

714
00:40:57.119 --> 00:41:02.639
<v Speaker 3>may protect you from sucking in a virus infected droplets.

715
00:41:02.679 --> 00:41:05.920
<v Speaker 3>So if you're working out, you're going to be breathing

716
00:41:05.920 --> 00:41:08.880
<v Speaker 3>more heavily, You're going to be breathing out more heavily and.

717
00:41:09.079 --> 00:41:09.960
<v Speaker 1>In more heavily.

718
00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:14.639
<v Speaker 3>But but you know, it's actually really hard to wear

719
00:41:14.719 --> 00:41:18.559
<v Speaker 3>a triple or mask and work out. So I am

720
00:41:18.639 --> 00:41:21.920
<v Speaker 3>trying whenever I can to wear a mask. But then

721
00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:24.280
<v Speaker 3>as I'm beating along on my hike to the words

722
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:25.760
<v Speaker 3>at the top of the hill, I might have to

723
00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:27.840
<v Speaker 3>like whip it off and take a big deep breath

724
00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:29.960
<v Speaker 3>and try to get air, and then I try to

725
00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:32.960
<v Speaker 3>put it back on. But you know, the places I'm

726
00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:36.719
<v Speaker 3>sheltering in place and I'm staying local, and I'm walking

727
00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:40.559
<v Speaker 3>up the trails in my neighborhood, and there are a

728
00:41:40.639 --> 00:41:44.119
<v Speaker 3>lot of people out there. So unless I wait until

729
00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:47.119
<v Speaker 3>very late in the evening, which I'm now doing to

730
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:50.599
<v Speaker 3>sort of not run into people, I hesitate to exercise

731
00:41:50.679 --> 00:41:54.320
<v Speaker 3>without a mask because I just there's so many people

732
00:41:54.360 --> 00:41:57.239
<v Speaker 3>you can pass, and you can try to socially distance

733
00:41:57.280 --> 00:42:00.679
<v Speaker 3>yourself by moving across the street that it it's really.

734
00:42:00.519 --> 00:42:02.960
<v Speaker 1>Challenging, So that makes sense.

735
00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:05.199
<v Speaker 3>I would recommend wearing a mask all the time.

736
00:42:05.599 --> 00:42:08.199
<v Speaker 1>Listener Caitlin Mills wanted to know if this will go

737
00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:11.719
<v Speaker 1>away in the summer, how cyclical will COVID nineteen be.

738
00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:17.320
<v Speaker 3>So in a lot of seasonal viruses, you know they're

739
00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:21.280
<v Speaker 3>seasonal because humans in the temperate zone are gathering together

740
00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:25.679
<v Speaker 3>in classrooms or in inside spaces where the air is

741
00:42:25.719 --> 00:42:29.800
<v Speaker 3>recirculated and it's you know, cool and dry, and they're

742
00:42:29.840 --> 00:42:34.280
<v Speaker 3>crowded up. And so it's probably in many cases host

743
00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:39.239
<v Speaker 3>behavior that's driving seasonality in many viral pathogens. But this

744
00:42:39.320 --> 00:42:42.000
<v Speaker 3>is a big question that remains to be seen whether

745
00:42:42.280 --> 00:42:46.880
<v Speaker 3>this virus needs that seasonality boost of a clustered up

746
00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:50.880
<v Speaker 3>humans to kick it back into circulation in the fall.

747
00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:54.280
<v Speaker 3>The biggest risk is when you have touched something that

748
00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:56.480
<v Speaker 3>has virus on it and then you touch it to

749
00:42:56.920 --> 00:43:01.480
<v Speaker 3>your mouth or nose. You might imagine like let's say

750
00:43:01.519 --> 00:43:04.239
<v Speaker 3>you get you buy a box of cheerios and you

751
00:43:04.280 --> 00:43:06.719
<v Speaker 3>bring it in the house. If you put it away,

752
00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:09.199
<v Speaker 3>and let's say, maybe it has we call them viral

753
00:43:09.239 --> 00:43:13.719
<v Speaker 3>full mtes. When you know somebody deposited a virus particle

754
00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:15.960
<v Speaker 3>on the surface of something. It's called a full mte.

755
00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:17.880
<v Speaker 3>So let's say there might have been a couple of

756
00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:20.320
<v Speaker 3>full mites on the box and you put it in

757
00:43:20.360 --> 00:43:23.760
<v Speaker 3>the cupboard. So long as you wash your hands before

758
00:43:23.800 --> 00:43:27.719
<v Speaker 3>you prepare food, and you wash your hands before you eat,

759
00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:30.840
<v Speaker 3>you're going to put in a barrier in between you

760
00:43:31.159 --> 00:43:35.559
<v Speaker 3>and those foemtes and your your mouth or nose. That

761
00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:40.519
<v Speaker 3>said there, there definitely you want to reduce the You

762
00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:44.320
<v Speaker 3>want to put barriers up at every opportunity, right and

763
00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:46.480
<v Speaker 3>and there have been some studies. There was a lab

764
00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:49.280
<v Speaker 3>study that you know, this is new new information. We

765
00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:51.400
<v Speaker 3>didn't know this at the beginning. We were just inferring

766
00:43:51.480 --> 00:43:54.239
<v Speaker 3>how long viruses last on surfaces from what we knew

767
00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:59.840
<v Speaker 3>about other viruses. And we know this viruses it's encapsulated

768
00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:04.360
<v Speaker 3>in an envelope, a lipid layer, two membrane layer of lipids,

769
00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:07.519
<v Speaker 3>and so it's actually a delicate virus because soap can

770
00:44:07.559 --> 00:44:11.880
<v Speaker 3>break that outer layer up and make that virus basically dissolve.

771
00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:14.760
<v Speaker 3>And so that's why people are saying, wash your hands

772
00:44:14.800 --> 00:44:18.519
<v Speaker 3>with soap. You can wash surfaces with soap, like you know,

773
00:44:18.559 --> 00:44:22.239
<v Speaker 3>I'm washing my fruits and my vegetables very well, maybe

774
00:44:22.360 --> 00:44:24.559
<v Speaker 3>well soap okay. So then there was a study that

775
00:44:24.679 --> 00:44:27.920
<v Speaker 3>showed that asked the question, if you don't wash with

776
00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:34.239
<v Speaker 3>soap or sanol or isopropanol or some disinfectant, how long

777
00:44:34.280 --> 00:44:36.320
<v Speaker 3>would the virus last on a surface.

778
00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:40.000
<v Speaker 1>Doctor Bennett cited a recent study that seeded SARS COB

779
00:44:40.119 --> 00:44:44.480
<v Speaker 1>two on different materials including cardboard and stainless steel, copper, plastic,

780
00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:47.599
<v Speaker 1>and researchers found that on plastic and stainless steel it

781
00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:50.559
<v Speaker 1>could live up to seventy two hours. Now, some types

782
00:44:50.599 --> 00:44:54.199
<v Speaker 1>of coronavirus leave only a few minutes on cardboard and paper,

783
00:44:54.440 --> 00:44:57.199
<v Speaker 1>while others can live for days. We're just not sure.

784
00:44:57.360 --> 00:45:00.559
<v Speaker 3>So in some cases I'm just like getting hum throwing

785
00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:02.639
<v Speaker 3>my mail in a bin. I'm not gonna check it

786
00:45:02.679 --> 00:45:05.480
<v Speaker 3>in three days. I'm not in a big rush, right. So,

787
00:45:06.039 --> 00:45:08.599
<v Speaker 3>in theory, the virus doesn't stick around that long on

788
00:45:08.679 --> 00:45:11.679
<v Speaker 3>surfaces because it's kind of delicate, up to so many

789
00:45:11.679 --> 00:45:14.639
<v Speaker 3>two hours, and it can be killed by a lot

790
00:45:14.679 --> 00:45:18.960
<v Speaker 3>of different kinds of surface disinfectants, including something as simple

791
00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:22.840
<v Speaker 3>as just soap and water. And furthermore, if you don't

792
00:45:22.880 --> 00:45:26.039
<v Speaker 3>want to be bothered washing every piece of groceries. Just

793
00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:29.679
<v Speaker 3>make sure you wash your hands before you prepare food

794
00:45:29.679 --> 00:45:31.800
<v Speaker 3>and before you eat, and don't touch your eyes, nose,

795
00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:33.800
<v Speaker 3>the mouth before washing your hands.

796
00:45:33.880 --> 00:45:37.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what about when you're in the grocery store? Devra

797
00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:39.119
<v Speaker 1>Lats has a great question. If I'm wearing a mask

798
00:45:39.159 --> 00:45:41.079
<v Speaker 1>and gloves, for instance, in the grocery store, is it

799
00:45:41.159 --> 00:45:43.159
<v Speaker 1>safe to be less than six feet away from other

800
00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:45.559
<v Speaker 1>people who are also wearing masks and gloves or should

801
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:47.920
<v Speaker 1>I wait until the aisle is empty and then grab

802
00:45:47.960 --> 00:45:48.320
<v Speaker 1>the butter.

803
00:45:48.599 --> 00:45:51.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? No, it's a good question. So you know, in

804
00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:54.480
<v Speaker 2>a perfect world you remain six feet away from everyone,

805
00:45:54.559 --> 00:45:58.320
<v Speaker 2>But okay, your risk is much more mitigated when you

806
00:45:58.360 --> 00:46:01.280
<v Speaker 2>take the precautions of you know where a mask and

807
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:03.800
<v Speaker 2>the other person wearing a mask. But you shouldn't feel

808
00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:06.599
<v Speaker 2>like you have your invisible cloak of you know, immunity

809
00:46:06.639 --> 00:46:08.519
<v Speaker 2>on that you can kind of walk up it to

810
00:46:08.519 --> 00:46:10.199
<v Speaker 2>anyone when you have a mask on. And I would

811
00:46:10.239 --> 00:46:14.320
<v Speaker 2>like to make a point about gloves. It's impossible, like

812
00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:17.760
<v Speaker 2>in your everyday life, like it's impossible to properly wear

813
00:46:17.800 --> 00:46:20.639
<v Speaker 2>masks and gloves. And I will say this also, these

814
00:46:20.679 --> 00:46:24.360
<v Speaker 2>masks and gloves medically are designed to be single use,

815
00:46:24.559 --> 00:46:27.079
<v Speaker 2>so like you're meant to wear them into a patient room,

816
00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:30.159
<v Speaker 2>have your patient contact, and then what we call doff

817
00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:32.519
<v Speaker 2>the ppe and like take off the gloves and the

818
00:46:32.559 --> 00:46:35.159
<v Speaker 2>mask and they shouldn't be used ever again because they're contaminated.

819
00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:37.360
<v Speaker 2>But in terms of gloves, my point about gloves is

820
00:46:37.360 --> 00:46:40.480
<v Speaker 2>that people wearing gloves like the same kind of risk

821
00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:42.360
<v Speaker 2>is there even if you're not wearing gloves, Meaning if

822
00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:44.719
<v Speaker 2>you take the gloves and touch your face, then you've

823
00:46:44.760 --> 00:46:47.639
<v Speaker 2>done nothing. The gloves have done nothing for you, and

824
00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:50.239
<v Speaker 2>any surface that that glove were to touch, if that

825
00:46:50.719 --> 00:46:53.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, were contaminated, then the gloves are contaminating. And

826
00:46:53.400 --> 00:46:55.480
<v Speaker 2>so what I always say, especially to my parents who

827
00:46:55.480 --> 00:46:59.280
<v Speaker 2>wear the gloves, is pretend wear the gloves, but pretend

828
00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:02.360
<v Speaker 2>that the gloves are not on, and wash your hands

829
00:47:02.400 --> 00:47:04.519
<v Speaker 2>the same as you would, meaning you can put purel

830
00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:08.760
<v Speaker 2>on the gloves. And so I try to kind of

831
00:47:08.920 --> 00:47:11.400
<v Speaker 2>indoctrinate them to wash their hands even if they have

832
00:47:11.440 --> 00:47:12.440
<v Speaker 2>gloves on. Kind of thing.

833
00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:16.039
<v Speaker 1>Okay. Patron Greg Wallach chimed in and said, amen, on

834
00:47:16.119 --> 00:47:19.360
<v Speaker 1>the glove question. Do people even understand how gloves actually work?

835
00:47:19.440 --> 00:47:21.400
<v Speaker 1>He says, I saw a woman eating a donut with

836
00:47:21.480 --> 00:47:24.840
<v Speaker 1>her gloved hand. She's keeping herself from getting sticky fingers.

837
00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:27.480
<v Speaker 1>I guess, and researchers do report that one percent of

838
00:47:27.519 --> 00:47:31.320
<v Speaker 1>those eating donuts get sticky fingers afterward. I am researchers. Actually,

839
00:47:31.400 --> 00:47:34.440
<v Speaker 1>what are scientists busy studying right now? Let's get into it. So,

840
00:47:34.519 --> 00:47:37.599
<v Speaker 1>both doctor Natter and doctor Bennett mentioned that the cytokine

841
00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:40.679
<v Speaker 1>storms that cause organ shut down, those tend to be

842
00:47:40.760 --> 00:47:45.360
<v Speaker 1>less severe in younger patients than older patients, and comorbidities

843
00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:49.000
<v Speaker 1>like lung disease, obesity, and heart disease can contribute to

844
00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:53.239
<v Speaker 1>less optimistic prognosis, and those are less common in kits. Now,

845
00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:56.519
<v Speaker 1>hospitals are starting to prone patients. This is a practice

846
00:47:56.519 --> 00:48:01.000
<v Speaker 1>that doctor Natter's colleagues affectionately refer to as Tommy, because

847
00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:04.360
<v Speaker 1>laying on your stomach with an oxygen mask gives the

848
00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:06.800
<v Speaker 1>lungs more space and has been shown to be a

849
00:48:06.880 --> 00:48:10.800
<v Speaker 1>promising option over intubation. Now, other research is being done

850
00:48:10.880 --> 00:48:11.559
<v Speaker 1>with medication.

851
00:48:12.119 --> 00:48:15.440
<v Speaker 2>The amount of studies that are currently ongoing, the amount

852
00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:17.840
<v Speaker 2>of publications that are coming out. A lot of my

853
00:48:17.880 --> 00:48:21.760
<v Speaker 2>colleagues at my institution are like brilliant, and there's a

854
00:48:21.800 --> 00:48:23.760
<v Speaker 2>lot of interesting theories. A lot of stuff that's going on,

855
00:48:23.880 --> 00:48:26.360
<v Speaker 2>and I think we are going to have nailed down

856
00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:31.360
<v Speaker 2>very soon good kind of guidelines and treatments for one

857
00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:33.440
<v Speaker 2>to do what you know, none of this, we don't

858
00:48:33.480 --> 00:48:35.760
<v Speaker 2>have treatments like the remdesivir now.

859
00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:39.760
<v Speaker 1>Remdesivir side note, is an anti viral drug that, according

860
00:48:39.800 --> 00:48:42.800
<v Speaker 1>to a paper published April twenty ninth in the journal Lancet,

861
00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:45.920
<v Speaker 1>has been shown to reduce hospital stays by about four days,

862
00:48:46.039 --> 00:48:49.400
<v Speaker 1>but it hasn't been shown to reduce the risk of death. Still,

863
00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:52.159
<v Speaker 1>it's in huge demand and some hospitals can't even get

864
00:48:52.159 --> 00:48:54.480
<v Speaker 1>their hands on it. Doctor Natter explains.

865
00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:57.000
<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of talk about remdesivir, which is a

866
00:48:57.000 --> 00:48:59.559
<v Speaker 2>great drug, but it's not a cure and it's not

867
00:48:59.679 --> 00:49:06.400
<v Speaker 2>going to necessarily reverse course as much as we hope. Unfortunately,

868
00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:08.440
<v Speaker 2>the other drugs that we're getting a lot of hype

869
00:49:08.440 --> 00:49:12.000
<v Speaker 2>as well that I've seen anecdotally or doing nothing, the

870
00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:15.679
<v Speaker 2>hydroxy corequin and the zithromycin and zinc. But I will

871
00:49:15.719 --> 00:49:18.840
<v Speaker 2>say I am curious to know if those drugs were

872
00:49:18.880 --> 00:49:22.760
<v Speaker 2>started very early on in the course before someone was hospitalized,

873
00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:24.880
<v Speaker 2>if that would have any effect, because I think once

874
00:49:24.920 --> 00:49:28.880
<v Speaker 2>someone gets hospitalized, what we're seeing is less of the

875
00:49:28.960 --> 00:49:32.199
<v Speaker 2>vireemia and more of the immune destruction and like a

876
00:49:32.239 --> 00:49:37.079
<v Speaker 2>cytokind storm. And I think that's part of why a

877
00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:39.639
<v Speaker 2>lot of these antiviral treatments, if they're not started upfront,

878
00:49:39.679 --> 00:49:41.400
<v Speaker 2>are not going to have as much of an impact.

879
00:49:41.440 --> 00:49:44.000
<v Speaker 2>That's totally my guess, my theory. I don't know if

880
00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:44.440
<v Speaker 2>it's true.

881
00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:48.079
<v Speaker 1>I mean it's I was talking to the virologists right

882
00:49:48.119 --> 00:49:49.960
<v Speaker 1>before this, and she was talking about all of the

883
00:49:50.599 --> 00:49:53.079
<v Speaker 1>different publications you can look at and what people are

884
00:49:53.119 --> 00:49:55.599
<v Speaker 1>working on, and how inspiring that is that there's a

885
00:49:55.599 --> 00:49:59.760
<v Speaker 1>lot of people kind of behind the scenes just working

886
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:01.320
<v Speaker 1>on it. It's very diligently.

887
00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:03.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh, it's amazing. It's amazing. And not only behind the scenes,

888
00:50:03.840 --> 00:50:07.599
<v Speaker 2>Like there are a lot of physician physician scientists who

889
00:50:07.760 --> 00:50:09.920
<v Speaker 2>will literally like work with me on you know, like

890
00:50:09.920 --> 00:50:12.079
<v Speaker 2>one of my tennings will be there and we'll be there,

891
00:50:12.199 --> 00:50:13.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, on our twelve hours or whatever, and then

892
00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:16.719
<v Speaker 2>they'll go home and they'll like basically like type up

893
00:50:16.719 --> 00:50:18.079
<v Speaker 2>all this stuff and do all this research and like

894
00:50:18.079 --> 00:50:19.880
<v Speaker 2>publish and you know, the next day it's like in

895
00:50:19.960 --> 00:50:21.840
<v Speaker 2>jama and I'm like Jesus like, do you not sleep

896
00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:22.559
<v Speaker 2>like any doing?

897
00:50:23.639 --> 00:50:25.280
<v Speaker 1>This is what doctor Bennett had said.

898
00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:28.039
<v Speaker 3>One thing I do for Jolly's is I go on

899
00:50:28.119 --> 00:50:33.199
<v Speaker 3>to the WHO website. They actually have a registry of

900
00:50:33.320 --> 00:50:37.960
<v Speaker 3>all clinical trials worldwide. You have to register a clinical

901
00:50:38.039 --> 00:50:40.920
<v Speaker 3>trial for any of these things, whether it's an anti

902
00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:44.480
<v Speaker 3>viral or a vaccine, or a test or even an

903
00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:48.679
<v Speaker 3>epidemiologic toolkit that you want to develop. You take it

904
00:50:48.719 --> 00:50:51.119
<v Speaker 3>into these clinical trials and you have to register them

905
00:50:51.119 --> 00:50:55.320
<v Speaker 3>with WHOW and then the NIH that's our own US

906
00:50:55.480 --> 00:50:59.679
<v Speaker 3>National Institutes of Health also has a Registry of Clinical

907
00:50:59.719 --> 00:51:03.800
<v Speaker 3>Trial and you would be amazed at how many clinical

908
00:51:03.840 --> 00:51:08.320
<v Speaker 3>trials are in progress. And for me, it gives me

909
00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:11.599
<v Speaker 3>a great deal of hope. There are hundreds and hundreds

910
00:51:11.639 --> 00:51:16.119
<v Speaker 3>of antibody tests, vaccines and therapies that are currently being

911
00:51:16.199 --> 00:51:20.440
<v Speaker 3>tested and examined, and at a minimum, many of these

912
00:51:20.480 --> 00:51:24.199
<v Speaker 3>can be used for emergency use, at least the anti

913
00:51:24.679 --> 00:51:25.480
<v Speaker 3>the therapies.

914
00:51:25.760 --> 00:51:29.280
<v Speaker 1>Speaking of vaccines, in Amanda Mueller's words, what is causing

915
00:51:29.320 --> 00:51:32.920
<v Speaker 1>the hold up? Kathleen Carlson, Eileen Prince, will Plia Law,

916
00:51:33.079 --> 00:51:36.480
<v Speaker 1>Caitlin Mills, don Ewaald, Betsy Shephard, Adam Drake, Gwen Kelly,

917
00:51:36.559 --> 00:51:43.519
<v Speaker 1>and Sultan Sazi all echoed our universal impatience. And then

918
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:48.480
<v Speaker 1>what about vaccines? Are they taking doctors design to be like, hey,

919
00:51:48.800 --> 00:51:51.159
<v Speaker 1>it's going to be to September or are they like, hey,

920
00:51:51.400 --> 00:51:52.960
<v Speaker 1>it's going to be never.

921
00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:58.000
<v Speaker 2>I've heard nothing that the general public has heard hasn't

922
00:51:58.039 --> 00:52:00.800
<v Speaker 2>heard about vaccines. I do think we are going to

923
00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:06.159
<v Speaker 2>see a vaccine significantly faster than we would normally. Normally

924
00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:10.360
<v Speaker 2>a vaccine takes about four years. Ou ou Yeah, I

925
00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:13.079
<v Speaker 2>think we're going to see a vaccine way sooner than that.

926
00:52:13.119 --> 00:52:15.119
<v Speaker 2>And that's partially for a couple of reasons. For one,

927
00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:20.400
<v Speaker 2>everyone is in the world is affected by this virus,

928
00:52:20.440 --> 00:52:23.280
<v Speaker 2>and so there is a huge impetus to get this done.

929
00:52:23.920 --> 00:52:26.360
<v Speaker 2>But the other thing is a lot of folks have

930
00:52:26.440 --> 00:52:31.480
<v Speaker 2>been working on vaccines for similar things, like mers, like ebola,

931
00:52:31.800 --> 00:52:34.360
<v Speaker 2>like other viruses, and so some folks had a headstart.

932
00:52:34.400 --> 00:52:37.719
<v Speaker 2>I think, particularly in England, they seem like they're doing

933
00:52:37.760 --> 00:52:40.000
<v Speaker 2>really well. The other thing is, even if you're able

934
00:52:40.039 --> 00:52:45.599
<v Speaker 2>to get the right concoction for a vaccine, you obviously

935
00:52:45.639 --> 00:52:47.960
<v Speaker 2>need to test efficacy, but you need to test safety first.

936
00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:50.920
<v Speaker 2>But then outside of that, you have to manufacture it.

937
00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:56.119
<v Speaker 2>So on average, like a normal vaccine, the infrastructure is

938
00:52:56.159 --> 00:52:59.920
<v Speaker 2>set up to maybe make I don't know, five ten

939
00:53:00.159 --> 00:53:03.960
<v Speaker 2>million doses you know, we need on the order of

940
00:53:04.079 --> 00:53:06.159
<v Speaker 2>three hundred million in the United States. If it's a

941
00:53:06.199 --> 00:53:08.320
<v Speaker 2>single dose vaccine, it might be a double dose in

942
00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:13.199
<v Speaker 2>six hundred million doses of this. So the infrastructure, you know,

943
00:53:13.760 --> 00:53:15.880
<v Speaker 2>and I think doctor Fauci already started saying this, but

944
00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:18.159
<v Speaker 2>like you need to start working on that now before

945
00:53:18.199 --> 00:53:20.559
<v Speaker 2>you have the vaccine, and you need to kind of

946
00:53:20.639 --> 00:53:24.639
<v Speaker 2>convert different factories that could potentially, you know, manufacture the

947
00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:27.639
<v Speaker 2>vaccine before the vaccine's even ready to be manufactured.

948
00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:30.760
<v Speaker 1>So a vaccine side note is a weakened form of

949
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:33.519
<v Speaker 1>the virus injected into the bloodstream so that your immune

950
00:53:33.559 --> 00:53:36.480
<v Speaker 1>system can sus it out and make a good defense

951
00:53:36.639 --> 00:53:39.039
<v Speaker 1>army against it. For more on this, you can listen

952
00:53:39.079 --> 00:53:42.480
<v Speaker 1>to the Epidemiology episode with guests the doctor's erin of

953
00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:44.880
<v Speaker 1>this podcast will kill You Now. In terms of a

954
00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:48.239
<v Speaker 1>SARS covy two vaccine, doctor Bennett.

955
00:53:47.880 --> 00:53:50.440
<v Speaker 3>Says, and in fact, some of the vaccine candidates that

956
00:53:50.440 --> 00:53:54.880
<v Speaker 3>are being explored are the stars one of vaccine candidates

957
00:53:54.880 --> 00:53:58.039
<v Speaker 3>that were just kind of left and never developed and

958
00:53:58.079 --> 00:54:00.039
<v Speaker 3>so it's gotten us a head start. We have a

959
00:54:00.039 --> 00:54:04.480
<v Speaker 3>a good head start on vaccine candidates borrowed from other

960
00:54:04.599 --> 00:54:09.079
<v Speaker 3>similar related viruses. There are clinical trials happening right now

961
00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:12.880
<v Speaker 3>with many vaccine candidates, and that definitely means that it's

962
00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:15.119
<v Speaker 3>much going to be much shorter than four years out

963
00:54:15.159 --> 00:54:18.199
<v Speaker 3>and I would definitely put it definitely on the twelve

964
00:54:18.280 --> 00:54:19.480
<v Speaker 3>to eighteen month track.

965
00:54:20.840 --> 00:54:23.320
<v Speaker 1>So that's great. So we'll get back to your questions

966
00:54:23.360 --> 00:54:25.360
<v Speaker 1>in just a second, but quick note on donations for

967
00:54:25.400 --> 00:54:27.280
<v Speaker 1>this episode. They were made to the Food Bank for

968
00:54:27.320 --> 00:54:29.719
<v Speaker 1>New York City in doctor mac natter's name. We also

969
00:54:29.840 --> 00:54:32.159
<v Speaker 1>made a donation to the California Academy of Sciences in

970
00:54:32.199 --> 00:54:35.119
<v Speaker 1>honor of doctor Shannon Bennett, who does such amazing work there.

971
00:54:35.360 --> 00:54:38.320
<v Speaker 1>Also this episode, we are shouting out another great podcast

972
00:54:38.360 --> 00:54:41.719
<v Speaker 1>with tons of coronavirus info science versus with the wonderful

973
00:54:41.880 --> 00:54:44.440
<v Speaker 1>Wendy Zuckerman. So take a listen to that for some

974
00:54:44.480 --> 00:54:49.559
<v Speaker 1>great coverage. Okay, back to your questions. So many people

975
00:54:49.760 --> 00:54:55.119
<v Speaker 1>want to know Kendall Burnell, Emily Dilger, Madeline Duncle, Tamara Oliver,

976
00:54:55.519 --> 00:54:59.119
<v Speaker 1>first time question asker, Kate Strelhow and Michelle Harvey Jamie

977
00:54:59.119 --> 00:55:03.400
<v Speaker 1>Thornlan and in Dave Miller's words, are we absolutely nuts

978
00:55:03.880 --> 00:55:07.280
<v Speaker 1>to have even partial reopening? Are we opening up too soon?

979
00:55:07.960 --> 00:55:10.400
<v Speaker 2>Oh? Man, this is crazy. I imagine what it's like

980
00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:12.679
<v Speaker 2>to be like like a governor Cuomo or like some

981
00:55:12.760 --> 00:55:15.280
<v Speaker 2>of these folks like that, like no one knows, No

982
00:55:15.320 --> 00:55:20.599
<v Speaker 2>one knows. I am worried because I do think that

983
00:55:21.639 --> 00:55:30.000
<v Speaker 2>opening up inevitably will create more potential infection. I think

984
00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:32.880
<v Speaker 2>if you just look at the like, the reason that

985
00:55:32.920 --> 00:55:35.559
<v Speaker 2>the infection rates are down isn't because we've conquered this

986
00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:38.599
<v Speaker 2>illness and COVID somehow like went away, Like it's still

987
00:55:38.840 --> 00:55:44.159
<v Speaker 2>very much there. So if you, you know, allow you know,

988
00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:47.440
<v Speaker 2>a city of six million to densely populate the subways

989
00:55:47.440 --> 00:55:50.320
<v Speaker 2>all over again, like I don't care how many gloves

990
00:55:50.360 --> 00:55:52.000
<v Speaker 2>and maths you have on like, there's going to be

991
00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:56.000
<v Speaker 2>more transmission of this disease. But it's it's this balance

992
00:55:56.159 --> 00:55:58.880
<v Speaker 2>of you know, how much longer can you keep people

993
00:55:58.880 --> 00:56:01.159
<v Speaker 2>all locked down? And I think it might be this

994
00:56:01.280 --> 00:56:04.559
<v Speaker 2>slow dance where you take a few steps out slowly

995
00:56:05.280 --> 00:56:08.119
<v Speaker 2>and you you know, you track how many infections are,

996
00:56:08.159 --> 00:56:10.039
<v Speaker 2>you track the admission rate, you track the I few

997
00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:13.159
<v Speaker 2>admissions you track the death rate. The death rate will

998
00:56:13.159 --> 00:56:15.360
<v Speaker 2>obviously lag behind by a couple of weeks, but you

999
00:56:15.440 --> 00:56:17.639
<v Speaker 2>track everything you can, and you test as much as

1000
00:56:17.679 --> 00:56:20.639
<v Speaker 2>you can, and then you may have to kind of

1001
00:56:20.960 --> 00:56:23.280
<v Speaker 2>go a couple steps back and wait a little bit,

1002
00:56:23.360 --> 00:56:25.760
<v Speaker 2>and you know, as to not overwhelm the healthcare system

1003
00:56:25.760 --> 00:56:28.440
<v Speaker 2>and as to keep infections as low as possible. I

1004
00:56:28.480 --> 00:56:31.719
<v Speaker 2>don't think it's wrong to try, but I think it

1005
00:56:31.719 --> 00:56:34.280
<v Speaker 2>has to be done very responsibly and very very slowly,

1006
00:56:34.400 --> 00:56:37.280
<v Speaker 2>and with a lot a lot of vigilance and testing

1007
00:56:37.679 --> 00:56:39.960
<v Speaker 2>and everyone buying in in terms of trying to keep

1008
00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:42.239
<v Speaker 2>their distance, in terms of trying to you know, not

1009
00:56:43.239 --> 00:56:44.760
<v Speaker 2>spit anyone else's face.

1010
00:56:45.039 --> 00:56:47.440
<v Speaker 1>Right, avoid that for now.

1011
00:56:47.679 --> 00:56:48.719
<v Speaker 2>It's not recommended.

1012
00:56:49.880 --> 00:56:52.800
<v Speaker 1>Let's get philosophical and ethical about it.

1013
00:56:52.840 --> 00:56:55.159
<v Speaker 2>But I think, you know, guvnor Cuomo, I think says

1014
00:56:55.159 --> 00:56:57.320
<v Speaker 2>it really well, and he's like you're at you're essentially

1015
00:56:57.360 --> 00:56:59.800
<v Speaker 2>asking when you when you have to open things back up,

1016
00:57:01.079 --> 00:57:03.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, how much is a human life worth? Is

1017
00:57:03.440 --> 00:57:06.639
<v Speaker 2>the way he sees it. And you know, to him,

1018
00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:08.840
<v Speaker 2>when you open up, you're going to people are gonna die.

1019
00:57:08.920 --> 00:57:10.960
<v Speaker 2>And so he, I think is doing a good job

1020
00:57:10.960 --> 00:57:13.880
<v Speaker 2>and trying to find resources for people to not have

1021
00:57:13.960 --> 00:57:16.360
<v Speaker 2>to go back to work, you know, you know, give

1022
00:57:17.119 --> 00:57:19.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, something to these individuals so that they can

1023
00:57:19.880 --> 00:57:21.599
<v Speaker 2>have food and they can you know, not worry about

1024
00:57:21.639 --> 00:57:23.480
<v Speaker 2>getting evicted and all these things. And there's only so

1025
00:57:23.559 --> 00:57:26.280
<v Speaker 2>much that can be done. Yeah, but don I don't

1026
00:57:26.320 --> 00:57:28.239
<v Speaker 2>know who knows, who knows.

1027
00:57:28.840 --> 00:57:32.519
<v Speaker 1>How do you feel when you see people in Central

1028
00:57:32.559 --> 00:57:34.000
<v Speaker 1>Park just picnicking?

1029
00:57:34.639 --> 00:57:38.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I mean listen, if you can be six feet

1030
00:57:38.159 --> 00:57:42.440
<v Speaker 2>away from everyone else, great, are you actually six ft

1031
00:57:42.440 --> 00:57:45.000
<v Speaker 2>away from Probably not? And I think this past weekend

1032
00:57:45.039 --> 00:57:48.719
<v Speaker 2>I was talking to my friends about it, and it's it.

1033
00:57:48.719 --> 00:57:52.119
<v Speaker 2>It worries me a little bit. I think it's a

1034
00:57:52.119 --> 00:57:55.920
<v Speaker 2>harbinger for the inevitable second wave that's going to come

1035
00:57:56.119 --> 00:57:59.320
<v Speaker 2>after things start opening up, because I think as things

1036
00:57:59.320 --> 00:58:00.719
<v Speaker 2>start open up, they are going to get less and

1037
00:58:00.800 --> 00:58:04.039
<v Speaker 2>less vigilant really and more and more kind of flagrant about,

1038
00:58:04.159 --> 00:58:06.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, giving up this whole social distancing and stuff.

1039
00:58:06.760 --> 00:58:10.000
<v Speaker 2>I am worried and I do, unfortunately, think that there

1040
00:58:10.079 --> 00:58:12.880
<v Speaker 2>will be another wave, and I just hope that it's

1041
00:58:12.920 --> 00:58:14.159
<v Speaker 2>nowhere near as bad as what it was.

1042
00:58:14.960 --> 00:58:18.199
<v Speaker 1>Right. This next question is from patron Anti Se who

1043
00:58:18.280 --> 00:58:22.719
<v Speaker 1>tapped into our collective consciousness and inquired, simply, so, how

1044
00:58:22.760 --> 00:58:25.719
<v Speaker 1>fucked are we? I asked doctor Bennett, what we can

1045
00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:26.719
<v Speaker 1>expect next?

1046
00:58:27.239 --> 00:58:30.639
<v Speaker 3>Spring is in the air. We're all getting a little excited,

1047
00:58:31.119 --> 00:58:36.480
<v Speaker 3>and we miss each other physically, obsensual, everybody's observing that

1048
00:58:36.800 --> 00:58:40.440
<v Speaker 3>the curves are flattening. I would definitely say that it's

1049
00:58:40.480 --> 00:58:43.400
<v Speaker 3>definitely too soon to bunch up and we need to

1050
00:58:43.400 --> 00:58:47.239
<v Speaker 3>stay the course. And so I do cringe when I

1051
00:58:47.280 --> 00:58:50.320
<v Speaker 3>see people that are clearly not in family groups sort

1052
00:58:50.360 --> 00:58:55.039
<v Speaker 3>of throwing caution to the wind and bunching up. I

1053
00:58:56.760 --> 00:59:01.360
<v Speaker 3>understand it, but it definitely is too soon and we

1054
00:59:01.400 --> 00:59:04.000
<v Speaker 3>need to not do it. We're not ready. We will

1055
00:59:04.039 --> 00:59:06.280
<v Speaker 3>be ready. There is light at the end of the tunnel,

1056
00:59:06.280 --> 00:59:08.960
<v Speaker 3>but we shouldn't sort of be racing for the end

1057
00:59:09.000 --> 00:59:10.119
<v Speaker 3>of the tunnel just yet.

1058
00:59:10.360 --> 00:59:13.679
<v Speaker 1>Speaking of missing each other physically, Star and Shannon Patterson

1059
00:59:13.679 --> 00:59:15.880
<v Speaker 1>wonders know when they can see their parents and their

1060
00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:20.119
<v Speaker 1>family again. Marissa Laws asked should we cancel handshakes forever?

1061
00:59:20.599 --> 00:59:23.000
<v Speaker 1>And Tracy Michael wondered will we ever be able to

1062
00:59:23.079 --> 00:59:26.280
<v Speaker 1>hug freely again? I really miss hugs, they say.

1063
00:59:26.360 --> 00:59:28.719
<v Speaker 3>I would trade out a handshake any day for a hug,

1064
00:59:28.800 --> 00:59:31.440
<v Speaker 3>Like I don't think we need handshakees. But I miss

1065
00:59:31.480 --> 00:59:33.800
<v Speaker 3>hugs too, And my mom lives in Canada and I

1066
00:59:34.480 --> 00:59:36.239
<v Speaker 3>you know, she was supposed to come down and visit

1067
00:59:36.360 --> 00:59:39.079
<v Speaker 3>for my daughter's birthday and we couldn't make it happen

1068
00:59:39.119 --> 00:59:43.360
<v Speaker 3>and we miss our family. I myself struggle with this

1069
00:59:43.480 --> 00:59:51.320
<v Speaker 3>question is when is it okay to hug? It's about risk, right,

1070
00:59:51.400 --> 00:59:54.800
<v Speaker 3>It's about thinking about the risk of the person you're

1071
00:59:54.840 --> 00:59:57.679
<v Speaker 3>hugging to getting a virus from you. And so if

1072
00:59:57.679 --> 01:00:01.159
<v Speaker 3>that is an older person or an older that's not

1073
01:00:01.320 --> 01:00:06.199
<v Speaker 3>in your immediate family circle, then you may be bringing

1074
01:00:06.760 --> 01:00:09.639
<v Speaker 3>a virus to a vulnerable person. So that that's one

1075
01:00:09.679 --> 01:00:12.599
<v Speaker 3>thing for sure, But you know, everybody needs to be

1076
01:00:12.639 --> 01:00:15.559
<v Speaker 3>empowered to sort of assess their own risk, right, So

1077
01:00:16.519 --> 01:00:19.360
<v Speaker 3>it might be that you know, if the loved ones

1078
01:00:20.119 --> 01:00:24.199
<v Speaker 3>that you that are in your family are themselves isolated

1079
01:00:24.239 --> 01:00:28.000
<v Speaker 3>and they have a very very tiny contact sphere, and

1080
01:00:28.079 --> 01:00:31.280
<v Speaker 3>you yourself has you know, have been really strict about

1081
01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:35.239
<v Speaker 3>containing your contact sphere, then you know, at some point,

1082
01:00:35.239 --> 01:00:37.480
<v Speaker 3>as we lift shelter in place and we can start

1083
01:00:37.480 --> 01:00:40.320
<v Speaker 3>to interact physically with each other or move to each other,

1084
01:00:40.400 --> 01:00:42.800
<v Speaker 3>then there's there's probably going to be a way for

1085
01:00:42.840 --> 01:00:45.880
<v Speaker 3>you to mitigate risk to your older loved ones that

1086
01:00:45.960 --> 01:00:50.880
<v Speaker 3>you can share hugs. But maybe the proper and official

1087
01:00:50.960 --> 01:00:53.840
<v Speaker 3>answer because that's kind of my metric as a person,

1088
01:00:53.960 --> 01:00:57.559
<v Speaker 3>But but the official answer really is that unless and

1089
01:00:57.679 --> 01:01:03.679
<v Speaker 3>until we know what you know, how many people are immune,

1090
01:01:03.800 --> 01:01:06.960
<v Speaker 3>and what the true size of the iceberg of this

1091
01:01:07.119 --> 01:01:10.599
<v Speaker 3>coronavirus population really is, because right now we just see

1092
01:01:10.599 --> 01:01:13.480
<v Speaker 3>the tip of the iceberg through the limited testing. But

1093
01:01:13.559 --> 01:01:16.719
<v Speaker 3>once we really understand how you know, how widespread it

1094
01:01:16.760 --> 01:01:19.840
<v Speaker 3>is and how many people are immune, and then once

1095
01:01:19.880 --> 01:01:23.840
<v Speaker 3>we build up our toolkit for responding to the infections

1096
01:01:23.920 --> 01:01:29.880
<v Speaker 3>by like really really strategic contact tracing and social distancing,

1097
01:01:31.719 --> 01:01:36.199
<v Speaker 3>and then we also have our toolkit to have therapeutics

1098
01:01:36.199 --> 01:01:38.239
<v Speaker 3>and vaccines. I mean all of those things sort of

1099
01:01:38.280 --> 01:01:41.280
<v Speaker 3>would we would want to come bring them all together

1100
01:01:41.639 --> 01:01:45.840
<v Speaker 3>to make risk zero, right or near zero for a hug,

1101
01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:48.320
<v Speaker 3>But many of us live with a little bit of

1102
01:01:48.400 --> 01:01:49.199
<v Speaker 3>risk every day.

1103
01:01:50.599 --> 01:01:51.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1104
01:01:51.559 --> 01:01:54.320
<v Speaker 1>Doctor Natter mentions the mental health effects as well.

1105
01:01:54.559 --> 01:01:58.039
<v Speaker 2>This is a really really stressful time. It's very emotional.

1106
01:01:58.400 --> 01:02:01.079
<v Speaker 2>People are losing their jobs. People don't have the same

1107
01:02:01.159 --> 01:02:03.480
<v Speaker 2>kind of outlets, they don't have the same social you know,

1108
01:02:04.440 --> 01:02:08.159
<v Speaker 2>support because physically they can't it's hard, it's very scary,

1109
01:02:08.199 --> 01:02:10.480
<v Speaker 2>and so I think it's important to recognize what your

1110
01:02:10.480 --> 01:02:13.920
<v Speaker 2>triggers are. It's important to find things that are safe

1111
01:02:13.920 --> 01:02:16.639
<v Speaker 2>to do during this time. But doing them. It seems

1112
01:02:16.679 --> 01:02:18.920
<v Speaker 2>like people are really liking the baking of bread right now,

1113
01:02:21.079 --> 01:02:22.960
<v Speaker 2>But you know, finding something that's going to kind of

1114
01:02:23.039 --> 01:02:25.760
<v Speaker 2>center you and keep you saying and recognizing that, like,

1115
01:02:25.880 --> 01:02:30.280
<v Speaker 2>this is a really scary, really shitty situation, but I'm

1116
01:02:30.320 --> 01:02:36.000
<v Speaker 2>seeing a lot of amazing generosity and charity and just

1117
01:02:36.039 --> 01:02:40.280
<v Speaker 2>like humanity through all this, which is one of the

1118
01:02:40.599 --> 01:02:43.639
<v Speaker 2>more beautiful things. And like the appreciation that we're seeing

1119
01:02:43.679 --> 01:02:46.559
<v Speaker 2>and feeling from you know, us the healthcare workers is

1120
01:02:46.639 --> 01:02:49.760
<v Speaker 2>like tremendous. And I was thinking about how said I'm

1121
01:02:49.800 --> 01:02:52.559
<v Speaker 2>going to be because right now, every night at seven pm,

1122
01:02:52.960 --> 01:02:56.480
<v Speaker 2>everyone comes out collapse and the firefighters come over. And

1123
01:02:56.760 --> 01:02:58.480
<v Speaker 2>I was thinking, I'm going to be so sad when

1124
01:02:58.519 --> 01:03:00.519
<v Speaker 2>this ends, because it hasn't ended. It's been going on

1125
01:03:00.639 --> 01:03:02.920
<v Speaker 2>for months now, and I was like, the day this stops,

1126
01:03:02.920 --> 01:03:04.599
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna be really bummed out. And I'm like, maybe

1127
01:03:04.760 --> 01:03:07.519
<v Speaker 2>like something like this, I not necessarily like having everyone

1128
01:03:07.559 --> 01:03:09.840
<v Speaker 2>come out and cheer for us, but something along the

1129
01:03:09.880 --> 01:03:14.760
<v Speaker 2>lines of appreciating each other hopefully gets you know, salvaged

1130
01:03:14.800 --> 01:03:17.639
<v Speaker 2>and stays with us. I think it will, at least

1131
01:03:17.639 --> 01:03:19.840
<v Speaker 2>on some level. I think it will, and I'm I'm

1132
01:03:19.880 --> 01:03:21.519
<v Speaker 2>hopeful that this is all going to come to an

1133
01:03:21.639 --> 01:03:23.760
<v Speaker 2>end at some point. I don't think it's going to

1134
01:03:23.840 --> 01:03:26.920
<v Speaker 2>go back to the same normal that we had. I

1135
01:03:26.920 --> 01:03:30.079
<v Speaker 2>think there's going to be a new normal, unfortunately. And

1136
01:03:30.159 --> 01:03:32.199
<v Speaker 2>I think it's kind of like, you know, living through

1137
01:03:32.280 --> 01:03:34.880
<v Speaker 2>nine to eleven. I never had to, you know, take

1138
01:03:34.880 --> 01:03:36.760
<v Speaker 2>my shoes off before getting an airplane, and now that's

1139
01:03:36.840 --> 01:03:39.559
<v Speaker 2>kind of routine, you know. So I think there will

1140
01:03:39.559 --> 01:03:42.480
<v Speaker 2>be things that are different but that we will very

1141
01:03:42.559 --> 01:03:45.320
<v Speaker 2>much adapt to, and that will be, you know, in

1142
01:03:45.440 --> 01:03:47.519
<v Speaker 2>everyone's best interest in terms of public health.

1143
01:03:48.320 --> 01:03:52.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm glad that the banging on pots of pants

1144
01:03:52.480 --> 01:03:54.239
<v Speaker 1>doesn't annoy you as a healthcare worker.

1145
01:03:54.320 --> 01:03:56.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, I love it. Why wouldn't you annoy me?

1146
01:03:56.519 --> 01:03:58.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. Maybe you're trying to sleep. And I

1147
01:03:58.000 --> 01:03:59.480
<v Speaker 1>think I wonder if there's a nurse out there who's like,

1148
01:03:59.480 --> 01:04:00.159
<v Speaker 1>shuit the fuck.

1149
01:04:01.920 --> 01:04:03.760
<v Speaker 2>That would actually make a great comic. I should do.

1150
01:04:04.960 --> 01:04:07.159
<v Speaker 2>My mom, who's like the most adorable woman ever. My

1151
01:04:07.199 --> 01:04:08.960
<v Speaker 2>dad took a video of her on her terrors, like

1152
01:04:08.960 --> 01:04:09.960
<v Speaker 2>with her little pot and pan.

1153
01:04:12.039 --> 01:04:14.199
<v Speaker 1>I look this up and his mom Ellen Natter is

1154
01:04:14.239 --> 01:04:18.920
<v Speaker 1>an adorable, diminutive blonde woman with stylish horn room glasses.

1155
01:04:19.119 --> 01:04:22.360
<v Speaker 1>She's hipper than me. She's on her midtown Manhattan balcony

1156
01:04:22.400 --> 01:04:25.480
<v Speaker 1>smacking a saucepan toward the sky. An appreciation of healthcare

1157
01:04:25.519 --> 01:04:28.760
<v Speaker 1>workers and hospital staff who every day are putting their

1158
01:04:28.800 --> 01:04:31.239
<v Speaker 1>lives on the line, like her son, I don't know

1159
01:04:31.239 --> 01:04:33.360
<v Speaker 1>how you guys do it. You're amazing. Is there anything

1160
01:04:33.400 --> 01:04:37.480
<v Speaker 1>any anything you would want people to do or take

1161
01:04:37.519 --> 01:04:40.840
<v Speaker 1>away from this or continue doing or not do anything

1162
01:04:40.880 --> 01:04:43.480
<v Speaker 1>that the rest of us who are just sitting around

1163
01:04:43.480 --> 01:04:45.559
<v Speaker 1>making sour dough can do it for y'all.

1164
01:04:45.960 --> 01:04:48.000
<v Speaker 2>No, keep making sour dough. I think it's you know.

1165
01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:50.239
<v Speaker 2>I think we feel it, like the healthcare workers, at

1166
01:04:50.320 --> 01:04:51.960
<v Speaker 2>least I can speak for myself and my college. We

1167
01:04:52.000 --> 01:04:54.159
<v Speaker 2>feel the love, we feel the appreciation, and we really

1168
01:04:54.159 --> 01:04:58.599
<v Speaker 2>appreciate it. I think, please just follow. I mean, I

1169
01:04:58.599 --> 01:05:02.199
<v Speaker 2>imagine the majority of your listenership are people that are

1170
01:05:02.599 --> 01:05:05.280
<v Speaker 2>very socially conscious, so they're probably already doing this anyway,

1171
01:05:05.320 --> 01:05:09.079
<v Speaker 2>but just follow the guidelines that are given. I recognize

1172
01:05:09.159 --> 01:05:12.079
<v Speaker 2>and get frustrated myself when they seem to change minute

1173
01:05:12.079 --> 01:05:14.320
<v Speaker 2>to minute and they seem to sometimes not make any sense.

1174
01:05:14.360 --> 01:05:16.519
<v Speaker 2>But if we don't do it all together, then a

1175
01:05:16.519 --> 01:05:19.199
<v Speaker 2>lot of it's not going to work. And so socially

1176
01:05:19.199 --> 01:05:22.760
<v Speaker 2>distancing I think is very key. Wearing masks if you

1177
01:05:23.280 --> 01:05:25.039
<v Speaker 2>know your local government tells you too, I think is

1178
01:05:25.119 --> 01:05:28.320
<v Speaker 2>very helpful. But just being kind to each other and

1179
01:05:28.400 --> 01:05:31.400
<v Speaker 2>just making sure that you know, we get through this together.

1180
01:05:31.679 --> 01:05:33.840
<v Speaker 2>I should also say, I think it's important to recognize

1181
01:05:33.840 --> 01:05:36.119
<v Speaker 2>that your neighbors may be elderly and alone, it might

1182
01:05:36.119 --> 01:05:38.360
<v Speaker 2>need some help, and you know, picking up some groceries

1183
01:05:38.360 --> 01:05:40.840
<v Speaker 2>for them, and just just kind of being a good human.

1184
01:05:40.920 --> 01:05:42.679
<v Speaker 2>I think now more than ever, is really.

1185
01:05:42.559 --> 01:05:47.000
<v Speaker 1>Important check in on each other and such. Yeah, yeah,

1186
01:05:47.199 --> 01:05:50.760
<v Speaker 1>that's good. Doctor Bennett says that in person relationships are

1187
01:05:50.880 --> 01:05:53.719
<v Speaker 1>important and maybe we're all realizing that a little more.

1188
01:05:53.719 --> 01:05:53.920
<v Speaker 2>Now.

1189
01:05:54.199 --> 01:05:55.840
<v Speaker 3>What do we mean to each other all of a sudden,

1190
01:05:55.840 --> 01:05:57.480
<v Speaker 3>I think we mean a lot more to each other

1191
01:05:57.800 --> 01:05:58.440
<v Speaker 3>than we thought.

1192
01:05:58.880 --> 01:06:01.039
<v Speaker 1>So let's not take our friend for granted. Check in

1193
01:06:01.079 --> 01:06:02.880
<v Speaker 1>with each other, even if it's just to send a

1194
01:06:02.920 --> 01:06:06.000
<v Speaker 1>picture of a flower or an apricot that looks like

1195
01:06:06.039 --> 01:06:07.760
<v Speaker 1>a butt. We need those moments.

1196
01:06:07.960 --> 01:06:10.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and how much we all need other people, whether

1197
01:06:10.679 --> 01:06:15.599
<v Speaker 3>we're in the US, or whether we're a Republican or

1198
01:06:15.639 --> 01:06:18.639
<v Speaker 3>a Democrat, or whether or you know, we're a Muslim

1199
01:06:18.840 --> 01:06:22.880
<v Speaker 3>or Jewish or living in China. I mean, we all

1200
01:06:22.920 --> 01:06:23.639
<v Speaker 3>need other people.

1201
01:06:24.119 --> 01:06:26.599
<v Speaker 1>So call up old friends or new ones and ask

1202
01:06:26.639 --> 01:06:30.079
<v Speaker 1>them stupid questions, because no question is stupid, and we'll

1203
01:06:30.079 --> 01:06:31.039
<v Speaker 1>get through this together.

1204
01:06:31.119 --> 01:06:31.199
<v Speaker 2>No.

1205
01:06:31.320 --> 01:06:33.400
<v Speaker 1>You can follow doctor Shannon Bennett and doctor Mike Natter

1206
01:06:33.679 --> 01:06:35.559
<v Speaker 1>at the links in the show notes, and I'll also

1207
01:06:35.599 --> 01:06:38.119
<v Speaker 1>put a link there to aliward dot com slash ologies

1208
01:06:38.159 --> 01:06:40.840
<v Speaker 1>slash virology too, so you can get more links to

1209
01:06:40.880 --> 01:06:44.159
<v Speaker 1>the study sided and the Science Versus podcast. We mentioned

1210
01:06:44.559 --> 01:06:49.280
<v Speaker 1>the organizations receiving donations, database for scientists and more. We

1211
01:06:49.320 --> 01:06:52.159
<v Speaker 1>are at ologies on Twitter and Facebook. I'm at ali

1212
01:06:52.199 --> 01:06:55.000
<v Speaker 1>word with one L on both. Thank you Shannon Feltis

1213
01:06:55.000 --> 01:06:57.360
<v Speaker 1>and Bonnie Dutch of the comedy podcast Do You Are That?

1214
01:06:57.480 --> 01:07:00.119
<v Speaker 1>For handling merch. Thank you Aaron Talbert for admitting the

1215
01:07:00.119 --> 01:07:04.079
<v Speaker 1>Facebook group, Caleb Patten for Bleeping episodes, and Emily White

1216
01:07:04.079 --> 01:07:07.320
<v Speaker 1>for handling the ology's transcription efforts. Thank you to everyone

1217
01:07:07.360 --> 01:07:10.679
<v Speaker 1>who works on those transcribing them. The Bleeped episodes and

1218
01:07:10.719 --> 01:07:13.079
<v Speaker 1>the full transcripts are available for free on my site

1219
01:07:13.119 --> 01:07:15.880
<v Speaker 1>at alliwar dot com slash Ology Stash extras link in

1220
01:07:15.920 --> 01:07:18.360
<v Speaker 1>the show notes. Thank you to Noel Dilworth for helping

1221
01:07:18.440 --> 01:07:20.880
<v Speaker 1>me with scheduling and getting all these interviews all lined up.

1222
01:07:21.079 --> 01:07:23.480
<v Speaker 1>Thank you to Jared Sleeper of mind Jam Media for

1223
01:07:23.559 --> 01:07:26.800
<v Speaker 1>assistant editing, and of course the Jewel in our Corona,

1224
01:07:26.840 --> 01:07:29.280
<v Speaker 1>Steven Ray Morris of the podcast that per Cast and

1225
01:07:29.280 --> 01:07:32.239
<v Speaker 1>See Jurassic Rite for editing these altogether and making sure

1226
01:07:32.280 --> 01:07:34.440
<v Speaker 1>that they go up on time. Nick Thorburn wrote and

1227
01:07:34.480 --> 01:07:36.400
<v Speaker 1>performed the theme music. And if you make it through

1228
01:07:36.400 --> 01:07:39.320
<v Speaker 1>the credits without bailing, I tell you a secret. And today,

1229
01:07:39.639 --> 01:07:42.320
<v Speaker 1>like an hour ago, I made a caesadilla with some

1230
01:07:42.440 --> 01:07:45.239
<v Speaker 1>corn tortillas that I noticed how to sell by date

1231
01:07:45.280 --> 01:07:48.199
<v Speaker 1>of April second, it's over a month ago. But they

1232
01:07:48.239 --> 01:07:50.559
<v Speaker 1>weren't moldy, and I was like, I'm gonna eat them anyway.

1233
01:07:50.559 --> 01:07:52.000
<v Speaker 1>And then I went to get some cheese and we

1234
01:07:52.039 --> 01:07:54.719
<v Speaker 1>had some jalapeno cheddar and it was moldy, but I

1235
01:07:54.800 --> 01:07:56.360
<v Speaker 1>just cut the mold off and I ate the good

1236
01:07:56.360 --> 01:07:59.440
<v Speaker 1>parts with the expired tortillas. Now it's been an hour,

1237
01:07:59.559 --> 01:08:02.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm still alive. I'm just at the part of quarantine

1238
01:08:02.320 --> 01:08:05.480
<v Speaker 1>where I eat garbage like a raccoon. Also, I made

1239
01:08:05.480 --> 01:08:07.719
<v Speaker 1>a Caesadia for Jarrett too, but I didn't tell him

1240
01:08:07.719 --> 01:08:10.159
<v Speaker 1>about the mold. I cut off the cheese or the tortillas.

1241
01:08:10.519 --> 01:08:13.039
<v Speaker 1>And since he helps me edit, he saw this in

1242
01:08:13.119 --> 01:08:15.679
<v Speaker 1>my notes, has my secret and I was like, are

1243
01:08:15.679 --> 01:08:18.640
<v Speaker 1>you mad? He was like, no, just cut the mold

1244
01:08:18.680 --> 01:08:21.039
<v Speaker 1>off the cheese, eat it anyway, so everyone does. I

1245
01:08:21.079 --> 01:08:36.840
<v Speaker 1>was like, okay, bye bye. Pacodermatology, hobbiology, hydo zoology, lithology, technology, meteorology, pedatology, nathology, zereology, elology,