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<v Speaker 1>Have you ever stumbled upon something and felt like, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know, like it was whispering a secret, maybe an

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<v Speaker 1>old journal up in the attic, or a weird symbol

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<v Speaker 1>carved on some furniture at a flea market. Yea, even

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<v Speaker 1>like a cryptic message on a tombstone.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, that feeling that urged to figure it out. It

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<v Speaker 2>taps into something really fundamental, doesn't it our drive to understand,

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<v Speaker 2>to solve puzzles. It's just satisfying.

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<v Speaker 1>It really is seeking patterns, finding meaning where others just

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<v Speaker 1>see well junk.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe exactly, And that's exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>What we're diving into today, the world of code breaking.

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<v Speaker 1>It's fascinating stuff. Is this whole deep dive actually came

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<v Speaker 1>from one of you, a listener who's really intrigued by

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<v Speaker 1>hidden messages just like us. Ah, excellent, And our main

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<v Speaker 1>guide for this is going to be the book Code Breaking,

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<v Speaker 1>A Practical Guide by Ilonka Dunnin and Close schmah.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, that's a great choice, really accessible dun In and Schmid.

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<v Speaker 2>They know their stuff, but they make it engaging, not

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<v Speaker 2>too dry.

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<v Speaker 1>Totally agree. I'm here, you know, always curious about intriguing subjects.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm here happy to delve into the history and

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<v Speaker 2>the actual practice of encryption. It's a field I find

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<v Speaker 2>endlessly fascinating.

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<v Speaker 1>Great, so between us, hopefully we can unravel some of

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<v Speaker 1>this for you. Let's give it a shot now. Our

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<v Speaker 1>goal today. Look, we're not going to turn you into

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<v Speaker 1>a master code breaker in what the next.

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<v Speaker 2>Hour slight juckle, probably.

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<v Speaker 1>Not no, but we want to give you a really

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<v Speaker 1>solid grasp of the basic ideas. You know, what a codes?

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<v Speaker 1>What are ciphers? Look at different types?

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<v Speaker 2>You share some really cool stories, success stories, failures sometimes too,

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<v Speaker 2>just to give you a real taste of it exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>We want you to walk away appreciating the cleverness involved

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<v Speaker 1>both in making the codes and breaking them.

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<v Speaker 2>And maybe just maybe inspire you to try a simple

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<v Speaker 2>puzzle yourself. It can be quite addictive, definitely, and.

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<v Speaker 1>We should mention the authors again, Elanka Dunn and Cheese,

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<v Speaker 1>known for working on huge unsolved codes like cryptos.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, the CIA sculpture one.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah and she pops up in Dan Brown's the Last Symbol.

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<v Speaker 1>And Klaus Schmah He's written loads, very respective and apparently

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<v Speaker 1>quite entertaining in his presentations.

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<v Speaker 2>They're a good team for this kind of practical guide

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<v Speaker 2>deep knowledge, but they make it approachable.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's get started. Then, At its most basic level,

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<v Speaker 1>what is encryption? Why do we even bother hiding messages?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, fundamentally, it's about secrecy, concealing the meaning of a

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<v Speaker 2>message so only the intended recipient can actually understand it.

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<v Speaker 1>Privacy security exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Keeping information safe from prying eyes, whether that's military secrets,

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<v Speaker 2>diplomatic messages, or you know, just a private note.

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<v Speaker 1>Got it now. The book draws a distinction right away

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<v Speaker 1>between two main things, cipher's and codes. What's the difference there.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, that's a key distinction. So think of it like this.

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<v Speaker 2>Ciphers generally work on the letters of a message. You're

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<v Speaker 2>substituting or rearranging individual letters according.

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<v Speaker 1>To some rule, okay, letter by letter, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Whereas codes they work on whole words or phrases. You

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<v Speaker 2>have a pre agreed list like a dictionary, where specific

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<v Speaker 2>words or phrases are replaced by a symbol or another.

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<v Speaker 1>Word, like a secret dictionary.

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<v Speaker 2>Almost exactly. And the book uses the analogy that codebooks

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<v Speaker 2>can get really huge and unwieldy. If you want to

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<v Speaker 2>cover lots of words, I.

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<v Speaker 1>Can imagine you'd need a massive book for every possible

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<v Speaker 1>thing you might want.

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<v Speaker 2>To say precisely, Cipher's because they work on the letters.

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<v Speaker 2>The building blocks are often more flexible, more compact. You

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<v Speaker 2>just need the method.

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<v Speaker 1>The key makes sense, and the book mainly focuses on

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<v Speaker 1>Cypher's right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, for the most part. Codes and related systems like

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<v Speaker 2>nomenclators come up later, but the bulk is on cipher techniques.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so Cipher's it is mostly. Now, imagine you find

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<v Speaker 1>this jumbled mess of letters. Where do you even start?

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<v Speaker 1>What's the first thing a codebreaker does well.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the absolute fundamental techniques, and the book introduces

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<v Speaker 2>it early is frequency analysis.

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<v Speaker 1>Ah, I've heard of that.

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<v Speaker 2>Counting letters basically, yes, you literally count how many times

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<v Speaker 2>each different letter or symbol appears in the ciphertext the

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<v Speaker 2>encrypted message.

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<v Speaker 1>Why what does that tell you?

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<v Speaker 2>Because languages have characteristic frequencies. In English, for example, E

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<v Speaker 2>is by far the most common letter, then TAOI, N,

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<v Speaker 2>and so on. So the idea is, even when the

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<v Speaker 2>letters are scrambled or substituted, those underlying frequencies might still

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<v Speaker 2>show through in the ciphertext. If one symbol appears way

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<v Speaker 2>more often than others, it might be the encrypted E exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>It's an educated guess a starting point. The book gives

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<v Speaker 2>an example ciphertext to show just this. You look for

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<v Speaker 2>patterns and apparent chaos.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so frequency analysis is your foot in the door

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<v Speaker 1>looking for that disguised E.

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<v Speaker 2>Makes sense, It's a cornerstone. Doesn't always work, especially with

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<v Speaker 2>more complex ciphers, but for many classical ones it's vital.

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<v Speaker 1>Right now, the book dies into a whole bunch of

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<v Speaker 1>different cipher types. This is where it gets really interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's start with substitution ciphers. What's the basic idea.

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<v Speaker 2>Substitution is pretty much what it sounds like. You substitute

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<v Speaker 2>each letter in your original message the plaintext, with a

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<v Speaker 2>different letter or symbol based on a fixed system.

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<v Speaker 1>And the simplest version is just swapping one letter for

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<v Speaker 1>another consistently, like every A becomes a Q, every B

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<v Speaker 1>becomes an X.

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<v Speaker 2>Precisely, that's a simple substitution cipher, or sometimes called a

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<v Speaker 2>mono alphabetic cipher one to one mapping. The book mentions

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<v Speaker 2>a fun example from Klaus's blog Oh Yeah, a challenge

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<v Speaker 2>cipher from twenty fifteen. Someone cracked it really quickly using

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<v Speaker 2>frequency analysis and figuring out The keyword used to create

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<v Speaker 2>the substitution alphabet was Gordon Young.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, so the keyword determine the whole swap. M cool.

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<v Speaker 1>What about the Caesar cipher. That's the famous one, right

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<v Speaker 1>you and I've heard of that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. The Caesar cipher is a type of simple substitution,

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<v Speaker 2>but a very specific one. You just shift every letter

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<v Speaker 2>a fixed number of places down the alphabet, like three places.

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<v Speaker 1>So A becomes dB becomes.

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<v Speaker 2>E exactly, wrap around at the end, so x becomes a,

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<v Speaker 2>hy becomes b, z becomes c if it's a shift

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<v Speaker 2>of three. Super simple. The book mentions Herbert Yardley, an

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<v Speaker 2>early US codebreaker, use it for his first ciphergram.

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<v Speaker 1>Huh. Even the pros started.

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<v Speaker 2>Simple, they did. And there's that funny newspaper example do Lo,

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<v Speaker 2>which decrypts with a shift, but the result is still

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<v Speaker 2>partly gibberish.

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<v Speaker 1>Right April third, if you work here, it doesn't always

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<v Speaker 1>pay perfect sense exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And the mug the inscription that decrypts to National Security Agency.

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<v Speaker 1>With the typo. That's brilliant. Even spies make.

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<v Speaker 2>Typos, apparently, so shows it happened.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so simple substitution Caesar shifts, but they can get trickier. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>What about homophonic ciphers. It sounds complicated.

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<v Speaker 2>They are a step up. Homophonic means same sound, but

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<v Speaker 2>here it means multiple Ciphertext symbols can stand for the

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<v Speaker 2>same plaintext letter.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait, so E might be represented by a seven, or

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<v Speaker 1>a percent or.

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<v Speaker 2>A k precisely. Especially for common letters like E or T,

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<v Speaker 2>you give them multiple substitutes. The goal is to flatten

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<v Speaker 2>out those telltale frequency counts we just talked about.

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<v Speaker 1>Ah, so it makes frequency analysis much harder, much harder.

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<v Speaker 2>If E can be five different things, Just counting symbols

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't tell you as much.

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<v Speaker 1>So how do you break those? Well?

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<v Speaker 2>Today computers are the best bet, using techniques like hill climbing,

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<v Speaker 2>basically trying small changes to a possible key and seeing

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<v Speaker 2>if the output looks more like English.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, computer power, but manually.

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<v Speaker 2>The book gives a geocaching example. If you have spaces

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<v Speaker 2>between words, that helps enormously. You can still do some

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<v Speaker 2>frequency counts on the symbols. Guess short words like at

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<v Speaker 2>or the he, look for common pairs like thh. It's

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<v Speaker 2>painstaking work.

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<v Speaker 1>Geocaching makes sense they'd use tricky codes, okay. Another one

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<v Speaker 1>that sounds weird.

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<v Speaker 2>The pig pen cipher chuckles slightly. Yeah, the name's descriptive.

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<v Speaker 2>It's geometric cipher. You use grids like a tic tac

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<v Speaker 2>toe board, maybe with dots in some sections. Each letter

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<v Speaker 2>is replaced by the shape of the pen or grids

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<v Speaker 2>segment it sits in.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so shapes instead of letters, right.

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<v Speaker 2>The book shows that tombstone from seventeen ninety six. It

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<v Speaker 2>uses pigpen and reads dia. Another typo should be deck.

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<v Speaker 1>They were having trouble with spelling back then. Even in code.

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<v Speaker 2>Seems like it. And there's the pirate Olivier Lavaser's cryptogram

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<v Speaker 2>from the seventeen thirties. Many think of his pig pen

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<v Speaker 2>possibly cracked using frequency analysis on the symbols.

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<v Speaker 1>Pirate treasure maps with geometric codes. Yeah, fantastic. Okay. Playfair

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<v Speaker 1>cipher sounds more serious.

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<v Speaker 2>It is. Playfair is a step up again. It's a

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<v Speaker 2>digraph cipher, meaning it encrypts letters in pairs, not one

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<v Speaker 2>by one. It uses a five x five grid, usually

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<v Speaker 2>filled with a keyword first than the rest of the alphabet,

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<v Speaker 2>combining I and J. Then there are rules based on

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<v Speaker 2>whether the pair of letters are in the same row,

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<v Speaker 2>same column or form a rectangle in the grid.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, Okay, that sounds much more involved rules and a

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<v Speaker 1>grid based.

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<v Speaker 2>On a keyword, it is much harder to break than

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<v Speaker 2>simple substitution. The book mentions Robert Thelis's nineteen forty eight cryptogram.

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<v Speaker 2>Modern breaks often involve computers trying lots of potential keywords

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<v Speaker 2>to generate the grid. The book gives an example using

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<v Speaker 2>black and beauty as keywords in the analysis.

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<v Speaker 1>So computers crunching keywords, got it? And general digraph substitution

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<v Speaker 1>is at just any pair for pair swap.

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<v Speaker 2>Pretty much Playfair has its specific rid rules. General digraph

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<v Speaker 2>substitution just means swapping pairs of letters for other pairs,

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<v Speaker 2>but without those specific Playfair constraints, potentially many more possibilities.

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<v Speaker 2>Klaus apparently set a challenge on his blog with one

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<v Speaker 2>of those.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So substitution covers a lot, from simple shifts to

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<v Speaker 1>complex paired letters. But the book also talks about transposition ciphers.

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<v Speaker 1>How are they different?

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<v Speaker 2>Totally different approach. Substitution changes what the letters are. Transposition

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<v Speaker 2>just changes.

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<v Speaker 1>Their order, like shuffling a deck of cards.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly all the original letters are still there, just jumbled

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<v Speaker 2>up according to a specific secret rule or pattern.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's like a complex anagram. The book mentions complete

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<v Speaker 1>columnar transposition. How's that work?

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<v Speaker 2>Right? You take your message, write it out in a grid,

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<v Speaker 2>say row by row. The number of columns is usually

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<v Speaker 2>based on the length of a keyword. Okay, then you

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<v Speaker 2>read the letters out column by column to get the ciphertext.

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<v Speaker 2>But here's the key The order you read the columns

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<v Speaker 2>in depends on the alphabetical order of the letters in

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<v Speaker 2>your keyword.

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<v Speaker 1>Ah, so the keyword tells you the shuffled column order. Clever.

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<v Speaker 1>The book uses Swiss cheesecake as an example.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. With the keyword table, it lays it out clearly.

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<v Speaker 2>A is the first letter and table. So you read

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<v Speaker 2>the A column first, then the B column and so on.

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<v Speaker 1>Got it? And incomplete Columner transposition is that just when

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<v Speaker 1>the grid isn't.

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<v Speaker 2>Full exactly, if your message length doesn't perfectly divide by

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<v Speaker 2>the keyword length, the last row won't be full. The

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<v Speaker 2>book mentions an IRA cryptogram one hundred and thirteen letters.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a prime number.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh right, so it can't make a need rectangle except

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<v Speaker 1>one by one thirteen or one thirteen by one.

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<v Speaker 2>Correct. Which makes it trickier. Breaking these sometimes involves multiple anagramming,

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<v Speaker 2>basically trying to rearrange the columns computationally until fragments of

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<v Speaker 2>words start appearing.

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<v Speaker 1>Prime numbers, making life difficult for code breakers. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>then there's double column to transposition. Do it twice pretty much?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, You transpose it once with one keyword, then you

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<v Speaker 2>take that jumbled text and transpose it again with a

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<v Speaker 2>second keyword. Makes it much much harder. About the book

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<v Speaker 2>mentions Marzie's report on ciphers using keywords from an Italian poem.

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<v Speaker 2>They were tough nuts to crack until Arman Krauss figured

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<v Speaker 2>something out.

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<v Speaker 1>What was that?

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<v Speaker 2>He realized the first and last blocks of letters in

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<v Speaker 2>the messages weren't part of the main text, but were

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<v Speaker 2>like indicators metadata. Once you remove those, the double transposition

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<v Speaker 2>underneath became solvable.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow. Sometimes the clue isn't even in the main message. Fascinating. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>one more transposition type. The turning grill sounds very physical.

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<v Speaker 2>It is. It uses a stencil like a piece of

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<v Speaker 2>card stock with holes cut in it. That's the grill.

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<v Speaker 2>You lay it over a grid, write letters through the holes,

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<v Speaker 2>then you turn the grill. Usually ninety degrees, write more

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<v Speaker 2>letters in the newly exposed spots. Repeat for four.

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<v Speaker 1>Turns, so the grill reveals different spots with each turn exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Then the cipher text is just reading the whole grid

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<v Speaker 2>filled with letters. The book has a Christmas card example,

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<v Speaker 2>and there's a great historical case in eighteenth century German.

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<v Speaker 2>One solved manually because the person writing the message was

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<v Speaker 2>a bit sloppy didn't place the letters precisely in the openings.

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<v Speaker 1>Huh. Human error strikes again even with gadgets. Okay, substitution

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<v Speaker 1>changes letters, transposition shovels them. What about poly alphabetic ciphers?

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<v Speaker 2>Poly alphabetic this is where things get significantly more secure

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<v Speaker 2>classically speeding. Instead of one substitution alphabet, you use multiple.

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<v Speaker 1>Alphabets a multiple alphabets.

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<v Speaker 2>Usually controlled by a qword. Each letter of the keyword

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<v Speaker 2>tells you which substitution alphabet to use for the corresponding

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<v Speaker 2>letter of the plaintext. So the same plaintext letter, say E,

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<v Speaker 2>could be encrypted to X one time and then K

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<v Speaker 2>the next time it appears, depending on the keyword letter.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so that really messes up frequency analysis.

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<v Speaker 2>Right absolutely, because E doesn't always encrypted the same thing.

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<v Speaker 2>The most famous poly alphabetic cipher is the Visienner cipher.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait, I heard of that one too.

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<v Speaker 2>The book explains the basics. Ngth really depends on the

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<v Speaker 2>keyword length. Longer more random keywords make it much stronger,

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<v Speaker 2>and the ultimate version is the one time pad. If

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<v Speaker 2>your keyword is truly random, never repeats, and is as

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<v Speaker 2>long as the message itself, theoretically unbreakable the gold standard.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow and cryptos. The first two parts use these polyalphabetic types.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, K one and K two. The solved sections

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<v Speaker 2>of the cryptos sculpture were polyolphabetic. K one use the

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<v Speaker 2>keyword cryptos. K two use abscissa real world high profile

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<v Speaker 2>examples cryptos.

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<v Speaker 1>Again, that thing is everywhere in code breaking. Okay, we've

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<v Speaker 1>hit cipher's hard letters letters, letters, but you mentioned codes earlier.

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<v Speaker 1>Working on words and nomenclators. What are they?

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<v Speaker 2>Nomenclators were historically super important. Think of them as a

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<v Speaker 2>hybrid system. Hybrid how so they combined a codebook part

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<v Speaker 2>lists of common or important words, names, maybe places with

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<v Speaker 2>their secret code symbols, with a cipher part.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh so code for common stuff, cipher for everything.

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<v Speaker 2>Else exactly, Maybe a simple substitution alphabet to spell out

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<v Speaker 2>unusual words or names not in the code list, or

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<v Speaker 2>just to add another layer. Before maybe the nineteenth century,

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<v Speaker 2>if you found a secret diplomatic message, chances were high

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<v Speaker 2>it was a nomenclator.

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<v Speaker 1>The standard for a long time. Then why did they

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<v Speaker 1>fall out of favor?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, partly because more complex mathematical ciphers became better understood,

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<v Speaker 2>and then, especially with cipher machines like Enigma machines could

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<v Speaker 2>handle complex polyophabetic stuff way faster and more securely. Right

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<v Speaker 2>technology advanced, plus nomenclators had weaknesses. If someone captured the codebook,

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<v Speaker 2>you were sunk. Or if codebreakers found a crib a

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<v Speaker 2>known piece of plaintext within the message that could help

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<v Speaker 2>unravel it. Or sometimes they were just poorly designed. Any

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<v Speaker 2>famous examples, The book mentions the one used by Mary,

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<v Speaker 2>Queen of Scott's in the sixteenth century. Thomas Philippus is

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<v Speaker 2>thought to have broken it, likely using some frequency analysis

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<v Speaker 2>on the cipher parts and recognizing patterns in the coded way.

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<v Speaker 1>History turning on a broken code. Okay, and dictionary codes

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<v Speaker 1>and book ciphers are they related?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's specific types of codes that use well. Book

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<v Speaker 2>says the key Dictionary codes use a specific dictionary. The

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<v Speaker 2>code might be like page one, twenty three, word five.

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<v Speaker 1>You need the exact same dictionary edition.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely crucial. MI eight, a US code breaking unit, broke

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<v Speaker 2>one by figuring out which dictionary was being used. Book

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<v Speaker 2>ciphers are similar, but often point to individual letters within

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<v Speaker 2>a specific book, like page fifty, line ten, letter three.

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<v Speaker 1>Again, gotta find the book.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly, Stephen Machis. Finding Nicholas Trist's Key Book to the

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<v Speaker 2>British Nation was a huge breakthrough, and that Hindu conspiracy

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<v Speaker 2>code cracked when a blog reader tracked down the right

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<v Speaker 2>Noah Webster eighteen fifty seven dictionary. Amazing detective work.

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<v Speaker 1>Incredible finding the right book in a million Okay, So

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<v Speaker 1>that covers a lot of the classical ground. But things

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<v Speaker 1>didn't stop there. What about beyond classical methods. Machines come first.

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<v Speaker 2>Enigma Enigma is the big one.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Electro mechanical machines like Enigma were a massive leap the

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<v Speaker 2>use rotors wires creating an incredibly complex, constantly changing polyolphabetic

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<v Speaker 2>cipher for every single letter.

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<v Speaker 1>The WWII German.

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<v Speaker 2>Machine famously used by them, Yes, okay, and breaking it

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<v Speaker 2>was a monumental effort. The polls did crucial early work

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<v Speaker 2>than the French British at Bletchley Park touring and his team.

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<v Speaker 1>The Imitation game story a.

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<v Speaker 2>Big part of it. Yes, and Elizabeth Friedman and the

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<v Speaker 2>US also worked on Enigma variants. The book mentions recent

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<v Speaker 2>successes too, like the M four project breaking original Navy

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<v Speaker 2>messages and ongoing work on others.

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<v Speaker 1>Just amazing the sheer brain power involved. What about encrypting voice?

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<v Speaker 2>That sounds different, very different technical challenge, especially early on

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<v Speaker 2>with analog signals. Early voice scramblers weren't always that secure.

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<v Speaker 1>So how did they manage well?

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<v Speaker 2>One method the book touches on is code talking using

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<v Speaker 2>obscure languages.

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<v Speaker 1>Like the Navajo code talkers exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>The most famous example using the Navajo language as the

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<v Speaker 2>basis for a code that Japanese couldn't break in WWII.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a human form of encryption, incredibly effective.

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<v Speaker 1>Using language itself as the lock. Brilliant. And lastly here

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<v Speaker 1>staganography hiding the message itself right.

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<v Speaker 2>Staganography isn't about making the message unreadable, It's about hiding

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that there even is a secret message.

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<v Speaker 1>How invisible ink.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a classic example. Yeah, sympathetic ink right between the lines,

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<v Speaker 2>but it can be more subtle. The book mentions Elonka

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<v Speaker 2>Dunnan finding a hidden message on the Friedman's tombstone, on.

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<v Speaker 1>Their tombstone, William and Elizabeth Friedman.

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<v Speaker 2>The codebreakers, the very same, a fitting secret tribute and

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<v Speaker 2>way back. Trithemiis's Staganographia book from the fifteen hundreds looked

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<v Speaker 2>like magic but actually contained hidden text revealed centuries later

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<v Speaker 2>by frequency analysis.

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<v Speaker 1>Hiding in plain sight. So machines voice hidden messages. But

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<v Speaker 1>computers must have changed everything again.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, oh, completely. The role of computers is immense techniques

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<v Speaker 2>like hill climbing simulated a kneeling. These are out rhythms

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<v Speaker 2>where the computer makes guesses, evaluates how good the result

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<v Speaker 2>looks like, how much it resembles English, adjusts and tries again,

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<v Speaker 2>thousands millions of times a second, So tasks.

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<v Speaker 1>That were impossible manually become.

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<v Speaker 2>Feasible, absolutely breaking complex classical ciphers like homophonic visionnaire, columber transposition,

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<v Speaker 2>even making inroads into things like the Zodiac killer ciphers.

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<v Speaker 2>Computers when in revolutionary they do the heavy.

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<v Speaker 1>Lifting, the ultimate code breaking tool. Now. Yeah, but even

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<v Speaker 1>with computers, some things remain mysteries. The book mentions unsolved mysteries,

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<v Speaker 1>cryptos K four has to be top of the list.

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<v Speaker 2>Still unsolved. Yes, K four, the last part of the

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<v Speaker 2>crypto sculpture remains stubbornly unbroken, despite clees from the sculptor himself.

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<v Speaker 2>It's probably the most famous active puzzle. The book mentions

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<v Speaker 2>others the Beal ciphers supposedly leading to buried treasure, the

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<v Speaker 2>Somerton Man cryptogram found in Australia, the Action Line cryptogram.

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<v Speaker 2>Puzzles that continue to baffle and intrigue.

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<v Speaker 1>It's kind of cool that some secrets hold out, isn't

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<v Speaker 1>It shows it's not just computation exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>It still takes insight, maybe luck the right approach. There's

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<v Speaker 2>still an art to it alongside the science.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, this has been absolutely fascinating. Let's try and wrap up.

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<v Speaker 1>We've gone from simple letter swaps to enigma machines and

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<v Speaker 1>computer analysis. What are the big takeaways for someone listening.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think understanding the why encryption is for secrecy

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<v Speaker 2>and what the difference between cipher's letters and codes words.

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<v Speaker 2>We've seen how methods evolved getting more.

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<v Speaker 1>Complex, substitution transposition, polyalphabetic.

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<v Speaker 2>Right and then the counter effort cryptanalysis using tools like

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<v Speaker 2>frequency analysis, pattern finding, and now massive computing power. It's

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<v Speaker 2>really a story of ingenuity on both sides logic, language, maths,

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<v Speaker 2>and for.

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<v Speaker 1>Me, the aha moment is just seeing how even really

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<v Speaker 1>complex looking jumbles can have an underlying logic that, with

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<v Speaker 1>persistence and the right technique, secrets can be unlocked. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a testament to human cleverness, really.

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<v Speaker 2>It absolutely is. And understanding these older methods it's not

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<v Speaker 2>just history. It helps appreciate modern crypto, the stuff protecting

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00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:06.480
<v Speaker 2>our emails and bank details. The principles often build on

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<v Speaker 2>these foundations.

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00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:10.839
<v Speaker 1>So if someone's interest is really spark by this, where

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<v Speaker 1>should they go next? What resources does the book suggest?

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00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:17.720
<v Speaker 2>Oh plenty along ast Crypto's site, Klauschmez, cipher Brain blog,

404
00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:22.559
<v Speaker 2>great Reads, the American Cryptogram Association for Puzzles. Mystery Twister

405
00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:25.400
<v Speaker 2>is an online platform lots of places to learn more

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<v Speaker 2>or even try solving some yourself.

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<v Speaker 1>Great suggestions. Start simple, Maybe try a caesar or a

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<v Speaker 1>simple substitution from a puzzle book.

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<v Speaker 2>Definitely get a feel for it.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, fantastic. So as we finish this deep dive, maybe

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<v Speaker 1>a final thought for everyone in our world so full

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<v Speaker 1>of digital encryption algorithms, we barely understand. What can we

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<v Speaker 1>still learn from these old school, hands on methods.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a great question to ponder.

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<v Speaker 1>And maybe are there still secrets hidden in plain sight,

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<v Speaker 1>not necessarily encrypted, but just overlooked patterns, hidden meanings in

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<v Speaker 1>the area every day world, waiting for someone to notice.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's very possible. The human element, the intuition,

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<v Speaker 2>the observation, the aha moment that was so crucial in

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<v Speaker 2>historical code breaking, maybe it's still just as important for

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<v Speaker 2>uncovering all kinds of secrets, not just coded ones. Perhaps

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<v Speaker 2>the biggest secrets aren't always locked behind digital walls.
