Speaker 1: Hey, good morning sports card fans, and welcome back to
Hobby Hotline on four Collectors. My name is Dan.
Speaker 2: I have a channel.
Speaker 1: You probably have heard of it if you're watching four Collectors,
and I am joined by the esteemed Alex Tressler. Alex,
so great to see you again, man, I haven't seen
you since the Philly Show when you were back in
the old engine room doing all that media stuff. How
are you, sir this morning. I'm doing great. This is
like a weekend off from me.
Speaker 2: I've been on the road, going everywhere and enjoying, enjoying
my retired life. Right, I'm retired military, but I'm doing
so much other stuff. But no, it's great to be
back on and you know, talk about some subjects that
are all over the news, you know, in the hobby.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fun because we uh, when we were doing
the you know, the backstage planning for this the last
couple of days, just like topics were flying all over
the place. Yeah, it's been it's been a little while. Then,
if you can see on the screen there, our rundown
doesn't even include like two other things we're going to
talk about. So since we do have a lot to
talk about, there are just the two of us, and
as viewers of this channel might know, I do like
to talk and fortunately Alex so do you, which is great. Hey, perfect,
So we uh, we do not have a third today.
I should explain that we did have a third, but
that third had some issues to come up in the
last couple of days. Uh, and so we figured Alex
and I could talk our way through it. Plus we
have so many topics and uh and we have always
had an active chat. So let me just say good
morning to the chat. Good morning, Andrew, how are you,
Craig's Card's Good morning, yank me card? Steve, how are
you from Tucson, Arizona. I hope that's any other two sons? Laura,
how are you? Laura wait in Northeast Ohio? Typical cloud,
Northeast oh I was just in Northeast Ohio, Strongsville a
month ago. Good morning, Peter B. How are you, Sarah
Stuke as always sport the sports card Shop. I'm not
sure I know you. Philly Joe, Good morning baseball card curmudgeon.
Of course, Hodge is fifty five. Thank you for the like.
Doctor Larry Gitlin, how are you, sir? Good to see you.
In here, Phil neicro Fan, I Billy, I saw your
video and I got I got a little little mention there,
so thank you for that. This is Ruben Snyder CoV
Confluence sports Cards. Good morning sir. That is v V
Cards California. I don't know you, but good morning. Uh
Steven's Dom how are you? And Rick osbun okay and
Chrissy how are you? There we go, Benny Cough don't
don't talk down my my my friend Benny Koff. He's
eligible for the Hall of Fame now. So anyway, so Alex,
first topic. This was all over the news, the sports
card news, because I don't know. It started out as
an unlikely story and then it became it just blew
up when this guy appeared on CNBC. His name is
Ryan Cohen. I believe he's the CEO of game Stop
and the story is about game Stop making a play
to acquire eBay, which the first time I heard it,
I was like, what, eBay's like eight times the size
of you. So let me just play the clip and
then we'll come back and I'd like to hear your
your thoughts on this. Okay, We're going to play a
clip from the famous interview.
Speaker 3: Ryan, you mentioned that, you know, game Stops in a
tough business. I mean, revenues are down like forty percent
in the last four years or something like that. eBay
has been a public company for a couple of decades.
Where's the evidence that you kind of know how to
grow a mature consumer?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I mean, didn't you guys call for game stops demise
multiple times? Is that what you're saying, Well, look at
our financial performance. Is it better than you guys anticipated,
because you guys said it was going to be doing really,
really poorly and it's actually doing okay.
Speaker 2: Populations are whoop's doing very very but doing okay.
Speaker 1: I mean the joke I put this out there a
bunch of times, I kept saying that he reminded me
of the character named Gavin Belson on Silicon Valley and
just saying ridiculous things and thinking he's sounding really smart
and just like this attitude. It's it's almost like, I
don't know how to describe it. But anyway, I've talked enough, Alex,
tell us your thoughts on this.
Speaker 2: Well, first off is just think down the road, like
the movie about Game Stop, Like, well, they've gone through
you know through possibly you know, getting rid of everything
because of the whole you know, everyone pumping up their
their stock. Remember when that happened, you know a few
years back and everything and uh to now to that
to this, like it's it's been a roller coaster ride
for him again. Everyone jumps to conclusions real quick and
they think that it's going to happen. They're going to
buy it. I mean they just said they're interested in
putting themselves out there, so I think it will happened. No,
I think, like again, I honestly believe eBay is just
too big. All right, It's just it's just monstrous. But
you know, him coming on and act in that way,
just I don't think it helps his case at all.
But if if it were to happen, you know, like
that'd be it'd be interesting, Like would we be seeing
how would the dynamic of e baby changing to you know,
doing more stuff inside their shops and everything. It's really
hard to really fathom, like what can come out from Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's one of those things where I just realized our
uh those that rundown is from last week. I see that,
all right, Well let's take that off. I thought I
thought uh, I thought our buddy John had given me
a given me a whole running start here. M hm yeah,
good good, good comparison to Silicon Valley. Great show. Of course,
Silicon Valley was I think it was on for like
four or five seasons, and it was, you know, pure satire,
but the satire hit pretty well most of the time.
And you know, this Gavin Belson guy was based on
I guess the one of the CEOs. I can't remember
which one, but it was like right on, so anyway
that beings may you know, the first time I heard it,
I was like, yeah, how are you gonna how are
you gonna acquire a company? And then he started talking
about how he was going to try to get like,
you know, financing together, and it just didn't seem at
all realistic. And then somebody said something about how he
gets some sort of big bonus if if game Stop
gets like a bump in their stock or something, and
this kind of play would bump up both stocks or
you know. It was it seemed to be some sort
of manipulative thing. And then he ends he has enough
juice to get on a CNBC, so, you know whatever.
As soon as I saw that interview. I'm like, this,
this is not a serious thing. People should not take it. Yeah,
it would be like it would be like TAG trying
to buy collectors, which brings us to our next topic,
which is Tag in twenty twenty one fashion putting a
pause on submissions. I was hoping that we would have
a guest on the show that could speak about this
from an inside position, But I don't have much to
say on this except that I'm not sure you know
how you can function as a company if you're putting
pauses a submission in a situation like this. I mean,
I could understand during COVID when multiple companies. This doesn't
really make much sense to me. Do you have any
thoughts on this, Alex?
Speaker 2: My thought is like, as a company, you would think
that's grading and stuff would have so many parameters in place,
Like what if we do get a surge? What if
you know, everyone stops grading with everyone else? How are
we going to handle this?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: How is that not already in place? Was it already
in place that we're gonna stop everything so we can
catch up? Tag. I've always I honestly have has always
have always liked their custom and I like the slabs,
I do, you know, but but I always said from
the longest part that their customness was made at the
national their custom aspect.
Speaker 1: I love.
Speaker 2: I love how they can make custom cards. I this
was at the West Coast Card Show. They do it
specifically for you know, different card shows and stuff. I
feel like they should just stick with that, honestly, Like
I I got at the West Coast Card Show, I
got undone with my my mom's dog. Gave it to
her as a gift because they put it in a package.
They put in the package for you to open up
right and for her birthday, so it was pretty cool,
but it did. I'm wondering if you know, the people
not wanting to grade with p s A, you know,
SGC being all of a sudden, you know, their time
frames are growing and everything else is I'm wondering if
now people are just trying to find these other avenues.
I know, like some of the other companies that are
grading more TCG and stuff, like they're getting the influx
of this stuff because PSA prices so keeping the I'm
and of course they're they're if you're gonna pay the money,
they'll tell take it all day, right, they're gonna take
take the big you know, big stuff in, but all
the small stuff that's actually pushing it, pushing the timeline
back is what's really holding it up. And now they're stopping.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so I mean I feel like that's that's
the bread and butter, is the is the lower and stuff.
I am. I'm an SGC guy, and my most recent
submission came in in March after three month wait, was
something you know, never heard of before with SGC and
my current submission, it's out there. It's been you know,
received like two weeks ago. So I'm just sitting and waiting,
probably saying three months from now, I'll get it, you know,
the end of July or whatever. But you know, the
reality of grading is that the landscape is not optimal
for collectors. Companies are struggling to keep up with the
numbers and a lot of this, you know, TCG is
really where it's all at. So a lot of these
companies are you know, being pushed by that.
Speaker 2: I just realized that, you know, going through this, I
put in an order at the Philly Show in December,
a fifty card order with PSA, and it is now
finally an assembly again this was a bulk order, right,
and you know, I knew it was going to take
some time. It was on track for completion and May
twenty first when I turned it in in December. Yeah,
luckily I don't need it back fast and everything. But
it just turned from grading to assembly, so hey, get
that bay and they get that bill sometimes soon it
was fifty cards.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's Stuke's point here is that, you know, everything
in perspective, three months with with SGC is certainly better
than six months with PSA.
Speaker 2: And then look look at that right after it, VV
said eight and thirty one percent increase in Yeah, well
the company has seen something like that, just thinking a
whole you know, landscape of everything different, you know, ventures
and stuff like that. Have ever seen that time that's
like a uh, these food influencers going and going to
a restaurant that has no one in there, they haven't
had anyone in a in months, and all of a
sudden they'd be like, this place is incredible, and next
thing you know, they're they're you know, have a line
out the door for freaking you know, weeks months and
everything just like, oh my god, what do we do now?
We don't even have the staff to cover this.
Speaker 1: So well, you know, it's interesting because TAG doesn't do
any anything but earlier than like nineteen eighty nine or something,
and so they don't do any any sports or anything
in in you know what could be called vintage vintage,
but uh, I guess it's all modern and TCG. And
I mean I'd like to see the numbers. To eight
hund thirty one percent seems a little seems a little off.
I don't know.
Speaker 2: Well, you only have one person submitting one card. If
you down then get eight hundred and thirty one. I
meant that's a big increase. But Chris, you do have
a point, you know, still keep my card, draw, keep
him how you want, like Michael, a good bit of
my collection.
Speaker 1: Draw. I bought this card at the Stanford show about
what last weekend or two weeks ago, and it's a
beautiful card from the nineteen forties and normally a year
or two ago I would have I would have sent
this off to SGC. And now I'm just putting in
a mag a penny sleever one touch what they used
to find that you find so it looks beautiful, I
don't I don't need it to be greater. I know
what it is. I don't really need it to be great.
I'm not selling it, so you know there's something to
be said for that. Thank you, Chris. So our next
topic took took off a little bit. Let me just
show the the instagram that kind of started, at least
for me, what it's all about. And I should say
from the very beginning that this is not a Jeff
Wilson story. It's not an indictment of Jeff Wilson at all,
because he went to a card show. And the story
is he went to a card show and he does,
you know, he films a lot of his deals, and
he made a deal with a guy who works for
a card shop in Jacksonville, Florida. And the guy is
a registered sex office and you know, he's just for
people who don't know if you're a registered sex offender.
That information is available publicly, easily with a couple of
clicks on the Internet. So what happens is this cardboard life,
which is you know, can be somewhat controversial at times
and a little flippant at times, but you know does
have positions in the hobby and takes the position and
this is a reasonable position, that's somebody like Jeff Wilson
who has the opportunity to make a statement here, and
the statement is, you know, the card shows have to
be better at policing. Who gets a table at a
card show part, particularly a card show like this the
one he was at where there was a lot of
Pokemon and a lot of children. And anytime you are
responsible for the security of children, you have to be
certain that you're putting them in a safe space. And
so to have a registered sex offender at a table
dealing with children and or you know, adults, even adults
in a situation like this is just unacceptable. And I
believe it was a front row card show. I'm not
sure about that. Front row card show is something we're
going to talk about later on when we talk about franchising.
But my position is that you can do this if
you run a card show, you can ask for you
can vet the people who you're renting tables to very easily.
There's a card show that it's up in Mount Kisco,
New York. I signed up for it. I've done I
think three or four shows there setting up a table
small show. But to get a table there I had
to fill out an application, I had to give a
photo of my driver's license, and I am one hundred
percent uh in favor of that being every card show
should do something like that to be able to ensure
that when you have children walking into a public space
like that, that these that they that they're protected against
the potential for bad things to happen to them. And
if you were renting a table to a registered sex offender,
you are not serving the community any in any way,
shape or form. So you know, there's there's a lot
of discussions on the perimeter of this issue, but that's
the gist of it from my vantage point. And I
would like to know your your approach to this. I know,
Alex you work card shows all over the country, so
I think you have a bit of an inside knowledge
as to, uh, you know, how the vetting takes back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so everyone has to realize, like the post that
this Cardboard Life put out there, like originally more it
was it was satire against them that turned into something
really honestly, you know, up the light and I'm just
going to turn into good. Right. You know that that
picture that he made, you know, saying that he you know,
the unexpectedly made a deal with the sex matter. That's fake,
like he created that. That's not what the video was
on Jeff Wilson's page. It was part of the deals
that he did at It was at the front Road
Card show I believe in Atlanta and uh and it
just spread. It spread to you know, my good friend
Ryan Knowles from Like Fatherlike Son, Cards and Breaks. They
he made a video on it, to to to cards.
They made a video and it's just spreading, you know,
the words getting out there, and I think more promoters
are starting to pick up agree with with everything, like
the vetting aspect. If there's the availability to do it
and it needs to happen, I mean, it could happen
at the smallest show only has twenty tables, Like it
only takes a few Like you're saying the application with
the driver's license stuff, and the individuals that are probably
going to kick back from it, understand they probably might
have a pass. Now. I My aspect was it is
it's like when you're saying background check, just make sure
everyone was staying, like you're trying to do the safety
of your patrons that are coming into the show and
the other individuals that are actually at the show. Because
I know there's a lot of vendors that come with
their family. They're setting up and their kids are running
around while they're vending, you know, so you can't say
that it's under the same aspect. So just making sure
you know upfront, Hey, this is what we're we're doing
a background check for. We're gonna make sure you're not
on the list everything else and stuff like that. If
you're gonna look for other stuff, then look for other stuff.
But this is like the safety of kids at the
actual card shows. So I know it's gonna it's hard.
It's hard because the flip side is it's like, what
about everyone that's walking through the honest you can never
give anyone the benefit the doubt. I'm the person I'm
always been a type of person. Like listen some of
these card shows, Like one of the card shows I'm
gonna be at in June in North Carolina, the state
says as mandates that you cannot if you're a registered
sex offender, you cannot be in public places where there's children,
like that is a state law. So you would think
if someone does not want to get arrested or you know,
go against this stuff, they're staying away because they've they
they understood that. But in the mindset of you know,
some of these you know, sick individuals, they're not going
to care. They're going to find a way around it stuff.
And I know someone said earlier in the chat, they're like, well,
using fake names and everything else, and it's a different
person coming. And again that's the due diligence of the
of the promoter. If you sign up with your ID
card and this is the person coming, they better be
the person walking up and picking up the badges and
everything else, and like that.
Speaker 1: Well, the show that I referenced is also one of
those shows that says, no, no substitutions, you cannot bring in,
you cannot put your name and everything on the application.
And then you know, Joe Schmos shows up at the
table and I think that's application. Were things about that
application with the with the driver's license, and I found
this out last night discussing this with somebody. Some states
have the registered sex offender has it on their license,
so that makes it easy. That makes it really really easy.
The other thing is there's a certain deterrent effect to it.
If you are somebody who knows you have a background
maybe not even regis sex offend, but you have a
background that you don't want people to look into. If
there's an application process with a driver's license, suddenly you're like, oh, wait,
maybe I shouldn't do that. The other thing is this,
It is really really easy to do a background check
with the registered sex offender because it's on the internet.
You can go, you can google in whatever state you're in.
I googled the other day New York State registered sex Offender.
First thing that comes up, you click on it, it's
the website for it. And the first thing that it
is in there is a name search, and you say, well,
what if he's named Joe Smith. But this also the
date of birth, So if you're getting a driver's license,
you can distinguish this Joe Smith who was born in
you know, nineteen seventy five or whatever. And so you're
you're able to do that search. And if you've got
a show with like fifty vendors, let's say you're right
out a list fifty people and you put it in,
it takes you maybe in an hour, and that hour
could save something terrible from happening. And to me, that's
the kind of vetting that you have to do in
this scenario, I should say that if you have a
show and you have a registered sex offender at a
table and something happens, you are on the hook liability wise.
And I could say that because I'm an attorney, I
know this. If you do not do your diligence and
you do not VET and something terrible happened, you're on
the hook for that. And so, you know, I think
it's a you have to do that for the safety
of the kids, for the safety of the show, and
you know, for your own liability. You know, I was
a little League coach for ten years. My sons are
grown up now, but when they were you know, eight, nine, ten,
all the way up to like fourteen, I was a
coach and every year the little League had had an
application process, and the application was a full you know,
you had to not only fill out an application, but
you had to have references, driver's license, all that stuff.
And if the little League can do it as well,
they should because they know the situation that if the
Little League can do it and they're dealing with kids,
then card shows should do it because they're also dealing
with kids, and it's it's the least you can do.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think, I think, I think you know,
promoters can do some other stuff too, honestly, you know,
to help preempt it by all these promoters make flyers, right,
make flyers for the shows and everything else, you know.
I use I'll use the analogy of like breaks home security.
What do we do We put the little signs or
stickers on your on your house and saying, hey, this
this area is secured by you know this home security.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Wellah, what you know some of these, some of these promoters,
and I believe it's probably gonna get there, you know,
if they are, you know, doing these checks and stuff.
Haven't I little stamp up in the corner of your
of your of your promo, of your actual flyers saying hey,
this show is a family friendly safe by checking our
vendors or something else like that, right, you know, that
little stamp of approval type of things saying that hey
we are you know like this. And I've always gotten
with a lot of promoters and being fully transparent shows,
I've gotten shows to start putting there. You know, say
they say three hundred tables, but I'm like, okay, get
a breakdown of how many TCG and how many sports
are there right because you have so many people driving
hours to come and all of a sudden it's eighty
five percent TGG and there's a sports persons waste your time.
So putting that transparency on your flyers and the stuff
that's out on social media that's out there today, I
think would be help. It's it's it's part. It's it's
helping with that or setting up in these areas that
the states, the laws of the maybe the arenas or
the wherever they're at have you know, hey, no registered
tex Sex mentors can come in here and everything us
like that. So you know that, I know it's never
gonna deter, it's never gonna fix the whole thing. But
it's the start that that that counts. That you know,
the we're getting the word out there, people are actually discussing,
and that's the start of something great. And love the
fact that all the individuals out there from this cardboard
life to like probably like some to to to do
cards to Jeff Wilson coming back on and talking about
it himself right and everything. You know, it's great that
you know, those those bigger avenues are saying stuff and
I love seeing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and you know Dan the Cardban also did
a video on it, and yes, Shot Stukes has a
point here which I think is kind of like the
old school if if you know something, say something is
kind of one of those things. And you know, when
we do the trade nights, you know, Four Countries has
done trade nights at twice at Strongsville and once at
the National of Vintage Trade Night. We we reserve the
tables and we know everybody who has the tables, like
we literally know them personally. So you know, in that sense,
if you're at a smaller card show, you know that
you know you know certain certain extent like the people
you're dealing with. And you know, when I set up
in shows, I set up on Staten Island, uh recently lately.
And the guy who runs a show, Mattie Steven is
a former police officer, so he's got access the security
that he brings in, and you know, you have to
have security at these shows. All the security that he
brings in are his you know, former cop friends or
or current cop friends, and they come in and they
know and it's a community based show, so they know
who who the people are that are coming in a
lot of kids at this show, and I think that
you know, somebody like that is you know, taking the
safe route and making it a situation where the kids
can come in there and the and the families can
come in there and feel safe. So you know, that's important.
It's not just necessarily what you're finding in some you know,
background search, it's also information that you're getting from the community.
Speaker 2: And I know we're going to get to the point of,
you know, we're going to talk about you know, his franchising,
you know, shows and stuff. It's hard in this topic,
harder for them because they're not local. A lot of
these shows are going around the country hitting up you know,
these big cities and stuff, and they don't personally know
a lot of these vendors that are that are showing up,
so it's it's harder on that. But the community aspect,
which you know, going to a local card show and
everything else, it's always been the community and enjoying your time,
you know, at these small shows, and it's just the
regional shows and then the ones like the national and
everything else are just a different element. But every day
type of show is probably one hundred tables or less
type of show that's out there and there's hundreds thousands
that are happening every weekend.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you got it. I mean you got to
know who you're dealing with. And to a certain extent,
a lot of these guys, like like you said, the
community based guys do those Those the people I like
to deal with, the ones that know what they're doing,
because if they know what they're doing when it comes
to things like safety, they know what they're doing when
it comes to all the other things like promoting the
show and making sure that the information gets out there
and you know, doing all the little behind the scenes
things that you know that if you're a dealer there
you want the guy to have done.
Speaker 2: But so in the end, you know, I want to
wrap up my stuff. Is like, I think it's great
that the words out there, people are talking about it.
It's just like, let's we still haven't heard from many
of like the big promoters from the big, big, big shows,
right and everything. Let's hear something from a you know
show coming out, you know, saying hey, we want.
Speaker 1: To do this, you know, ye front Row you know,
if this happened in a front Row card show, then
front Row has to say something and you know he's
out there. He's a forward facing guy who does a
lot of social media. I've seen him at least twice
on Jeremy Lee's show, and you know, maybe somebody needs
to give him a nudge and say, hey, make a
statement here. Maybe he's lawyers of telling him don't make
a statement.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll reach out. I'll reach out to Ray Schulte
since he's in partnered with with front Row Now and
everything and he's always in the forefront with with on
media and stuff like that, and see see what he
has to say about it.
Speaker 1: Well, this would a good transition into our next topic,
which is the growth of these card show franchises. And
I could say from my recent experience, I went up
to Connecticut two weeks ago, was it last week and
two weeks I don't know time in my head. It's
something called the Northeast Card Expo Northeast Sports Card Expo,
and they had a show in Stanford, Connecticut, which is
only like an hour from me, but most of their
shows are in massachutt They have a show in Portland,
Maine coming up. They have Quincy, Massachusetts, Marlborough, Massachusetts. They're
coming back to Stanford so they're doing franchising that sort
of northeast New England kind of region, and I thought
it was extraordinarily well run. The guys knew what they
were doing. The one issue was WiFi, but that's something else.
But you know, the tables were run, it was well communicated,
it was well promoted, it was laid out well. I mean,
I think there is an advantage to having a franchise
who who knows what they're doing, doing multiple shows in
multiple towns. And the other one is the Dallas Card
Show I guess about a month ago. Yeah, it was
a month ago. In fact, it was a month ago.
This weekend the Dallas Card Show New Jersey took place.
And I admit that coming up, you know, leading up
to that event, I was cynical. I was like, what
Dallas Card Show for New Jersey. They're at a place
the Expo, the I don't know, the Central Jersey Expo whatever,
and forget what town was in, you know, I put
it in the GPS and forget where I am. And
it was good. It was again a well run show,
very crowded, very organized. Nothing but good things to say
about both of those shows. And I found it kind
of interesting that my last two shows after Strongsville, which
is also a franchise show where franchise shows, and that
seems to me to be something that we're going to
be doing more often, franchise show Strongsville being that the
Toronto Expo guys, the guys that now do the Expo
in Toronto, Montreal, Winnipeg, Minton, they run Strongsville and they
actually have a new show coming up which is in
what you call it Nova Scotia. They're doing a expo
out in far eastern Canada out in Nova Scotia, which
is just announced for July. So, you know, I feel
like card show franchises at this point kind of a
good thing, except if you're a mom and pop and
maybe not so what you're again, you're in this business,
so tell us your your your thoughts on this.
Speaker 2: So when I first saw Dallas card Show branching out,
so I believe they did one in Cincinnati last year.
They've done some others that have been not Dallas, and
they've named Dallas card Show wherever they're at, you know,
so they did Jersey the first time. They're hitting these
markets where I mean, they have all these individuals coming
in they have the data, they have all this information,
all these individuals coming into the show. First off, every
other month. I've always said the Dallas Card Show is
oversaturated because it's every other month. Now it's every month
because in between every other month in Dallas, they're all
over there around the country. So literally, this this business
that that that they have, if they're they're focusing in on,
is they're going to be doing it pretty much year round,
close to because you know there's those months that they're not.
But uh, it's it's building the brand. They've done the
years of building Dallas Card Show, you know, down there,
and now they're they're taking it on the road. And
of course, you know, brand name goes a long way
with any of this stuff. And so as soon as
they see Jersey Dallas Card Show, you get some of
the same vendors that's set up in Dallas. It's like, oh,
we're bringing the same thing here. My problem with it now,
it could be, it's gonna be, it could be the
best show and everything else. My problem is is you're
not gonna have the same stuff in Dallas that you're
going to have in Jersey or Cincinnati or wherever they're
setting it. Up because these shows, these are considered regional shows.
I've always told everyone this, this is supposed to be
for that region. It's realistically not supposed to be for
people to fly into. It's not for just people if
you're a few hours away. It's supposed to drive. There's
only pretty much like one show that you should fly into,
and that's the National Right and and and everything else.
It's supposed to be for that region. Like so coming up,
coming up in July is a prime example. So the
Dallas Card Show, I believe it's this weekend or next week.
This week, next weekend is next weekend in Dallas. Two
months from now, it's in July. The same weekend is
the West Coast Card Show in Fanatics FIST all three
of them the same weekend. And you're not you're not
messing with the people walking through the door, because again
it's the region. What you're messing with now is the vendors.
The same vendors that usually set up at Dallas set
up in West Coast are probably gonna go to Fanatics
FST because of the FOMO. So I understand on a
business aspect of these promoters doing this because like it's
turning into their business. A lot of these promoters don't
do this full time like the smaller community ones. Right,
they're they're you know, they have other jobs and they're
doing it. These guys have probably started there and now
they're advanced to the Okay, I don't have another job.
This is what I'm doing full time now, So why
not do it around the country with our brand name
every month?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean if they take into account that, you know,
the regional aspect of it, and they invite regional you know,
people who are in the region or in the area
to set up at the shows, that's a positive thing
to me. And I went, like I said, I went
to Stanford and went to the Central Jersey Edison that's
where it was Edison. And at both of those shows,
I saw people who were who I knew to be
local dealers who had decided to get involved in this,
and they had good things to say. So again, I
don't I don't see how. I don't see the negativity
except for if they start pushing out you know, smaller,
but you're setting up at very big locations. These are big,
big shows. These are four hundred and fifty five hundred
or more table shows, which you just don't have, like
Mom and Pop don't have that kind of jewice to
set something up like that.
Speaker 2: You get the turf wars, right, you get the people saying, hey,
you know, having the show here and stuff. And I've
honestly my type of aspect is if I'm at a
card show, and especially the smaller ones that are community based, like,
I'm probably not gonna be there all day. So if
there's another show within driving distance in that same day,
guess what I'm all. I'm all for it. The collector walk.
Wanting to walk a couple of shit.
Speaker 1: There is a point that Suke makes here about the
autograph local autograph providers, which which do you know. I've
experienced that too. But one thing I should say, and
this this wasn't negative that I that I had forgotten about.
I went to the Guard that the Garfield Show is Garfield,
New Jersey is a show that is primarily vintage and
it's I think every other Sunday in like a community center,
one hundred and fifty two hundred tables. It's been there,
the same dealers, same you know, same people running the show.
It's one of those sort of old school shows. That's
been around for decades, and I've been to Garfield twice.
The first time I was there was I don't know,
January or something, and it was packed and it was
good and I got some stuff, and you know, it's
a good experience. I went back again the day after
I had gone to the Central Jersey show in Edison,
the Dallas Card Show in New Jersey and Edison and
Garfield was empty, empty of dealers and people. It was
like maybe ten empty tables and there was hardly anybody there.
And the dealers were like, yeah, we're here, as we
are every every time the show is on on Sunday,
but we know where the other people are, and they
were at this giant show in Edison, which I should
say was packed. And also it's hard to park, and
you know, everybody who is into sports cards in that
area of the country was there instead of at the Garfield,
So that I mean, it's not necessarily taking over the show,
but also but taking the people, I think, which could
be a negative, negative situation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's because you know, it's because these big, these
big franchises coming in, they're not looking at the local community.
They might look at like the bigger bigger shows, but
these ones that are been a staple like in that area, right,
that's every Sunday and everything else, Like they're not caring
about that. That's not the community. That's where like you're
saying the negative aspect of not caring about the community,
and it's not knowing the community around there. I mean,
I I've been up to Jersey a few times and
and it was just like, hey, let's look real quick,
there's a show every weekend somewhere within driving distance in
that And I believe that's why they did. They did
their due diligence, and that's why they're not They're not
going to you know, middle of nowhere, you know, Iowa
or something else like that or whatever. So I say
that when literally, what one of the one of the
bigger shows in the countries in the middle of nowhere
in amish Land And uh, what's that one that b
Sports does with car Collector too, Juana? That one one
in the middle of nowhere you got to drive to
get to it. There's like one Applebee's right outside that
place in hours of right afterwards. So but it's it's
I hope they don't push it too much. Like I've
always said the Dallas Card Show is every other month.
Understand you're going people don't You're not trying to fly
into there. It's because look at the population around Dallas.
There's millions of people in that city, and that show
can thrive every other month because you have that many
people there.
Speaker 1: So and you know, well, you know we we both
are Philly Show attendees. I've been to I don't know
everyone except for maybe one or two since two twenty twenty,
so you know, I've been to a lot of them
three times a year, which I think is the perfect
amount of time, three times a year. And I'm really
looking forward to September. I should say, Alex, you should
come to the YouTube get together. We do it. We're
now doing it every Saturday of the Philly Show at
the Hilton Gardenian and the last three I've been to
last three and they've all been really solid. So I'll
send you so yes, send.
Speaker 2: Me the invite because remember I got it. I'm just
since I do the media for the Philly Show. I'm
there in the trade night in the beginning, right right
after the show, so I might make a fastively late
appearance right and everything. So I'm gladly, gladly. I love
the meetups. I love the community has always been the
forefront of everything right and stuff like that. So no,
I mean when I'm at the I'm at the National,
I'm getting pulled every which way. Hey, come to this,
come to this meetup, come to this, and everything else.
I'm like, I need the movie Multiplicity and just clone
me eight different ways so then I can, you know,
be everywhere at once. But I love it.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 2: That's an old school reference there.
Speaker 1: It's uh, yeah, it's been fun. It's I should give
a shout out to Ray from Philly and Cardboard Coach
Neil who have put these together and CIA Auctions share
Me and his team have done the sponsorship of it
and given us some really good food and pizza and wings,
and you know, it's been. It's been. It started out
with like nine or eleven people and then it got
up to like the last one was over fifty people.
Speaker 2: So that's awesome. That's people. But like you're saying with
the Philly Show, how it's the Philly Shows three times
a year and it's spaced out pretty well, and it's
because they do kind of they don't partner, but they
are with CSA. How they broke it up saying, hey,
we're not going to step on your toes. Step in mind,
because it's the signings, the autograf guests that are at
these shows and everything else like that. So I mean
it's pretty If you look at the landscape for the
Philly Show though, it's like they have there's a gap
in between, like the last one and then the very
next one. It's like it's it's always a good gaps,
which helps, I think in the long run.
Speaker 1: So oh absolutely, I'm just worried about how many people
are going to be there in September.
Speaker 2: I mean it's it's always you have, you have the
National happening, and then people take a break and then
they're back at it. So it's that just a long
enough break in August, then you have Labor Day and
then boom the Philly Show. So that's true.
Speaker 1: Sorry, So I guess the last topic we talked about.
I think we got through everything we got to except
for we were going to talk about fanatics uhle license,
which I should I should say when we brought this up,
I'm like, I don't really know anything about it. I
don't really know about this and then and then I
got a mailing I'm sure you know Sus. Sus who
used to work for Tops and now works for a
CGC I believe it, has a really excellent mailing list
called card Chat. She does card Chat on her Twitter account,
but she also has I guess, not a mailing list,
a newsletter. So I was lucky. SUS's newsletter came out
this week and it described exactly why this is really
an important story. So I'm like, oh, thank you. I
didn't have to do any more research on it. So
has partnered with Panini for I I guess so long
fifty years or something. Yeah, Panini started doing soccer based
stickers in like nineteen seventy, and anybody who is in
the football or soccer culture has collected Panini stickers or
Panini cards going all the way back to like, you know,
people who I nineteen seventy. That was when I was
a very least but like so there are generations, particularly
in Europe, of people who associate FIFA cards or FIFA
collectible with Panini, and so this is like their bread
and butter. And you know, they got the basketball license
and they lost that and they had the I guess
they had football for a while. They lost that and
Panini has has you know, some tangential licenses these days,
but this is their bread and butter, and to lose
this license means I think that Panini is pretty much
going to be Yeah, I get that, right, I.
Speaker 2: Believe I believe you did. You know, everyone forgets that,
you know, Panini official right not the US is from Italy,
so that's why, you know, bringing in the aspect of
the soccer world for a long period of time, you know,
deprived from that. I can't believe they really didn't get racing,
you know, a long time ago f one. You know
how big it is over in Europe. But uh, some
of the biggest I mean, I believe soccer cards from
you know, old school are the stickers, like the slab ones,
the rookies of certain you know, famous soccer players and
stuff like that are are from them. So make start
making I think I think that you know, the topic
that everyone really is focusing on on this is you know,
the monopoly, right the how how is fanatics top being
able to control the rights of everything? And are there
any I mean, being a lawyer, are there any laws
out there that you know, justify this not being able
to happen and having you know, multiple licenses with multiple
companies and stuff. He's that people focus on that and
then the good side of it, everyone's just like, Oh,
we're gonna see World Cup debut patches down the road,
and everyone's just like, Oh, they're gonna be They're gonna
be worn during this World Cup. I'm like, people, make
sure you read that their fine print. They don't take
it over until thirty twenty thirty one. There'll be another
World Cup before they take it over, So we'll have
two World Cups with those patches. We're turning into upper
deck with their with their hockey stuff and having like
multiple years in one product for rookies. So again, what
that's five years from now? There's so much can happen
in five years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, think about five years ago. Five years ago in
the hobby is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like what happens if you know something you know,
knock on wood really happens and then fanatics is gone
like that, that doesn't the deals no longer there, right,
you know, So innovations there with tops and the one
thing I love about Tops having like all the license
the fact that hopefully they all sink synchronized being a
modern type of person and everything is just like if
you have TOPS crime in one product, it needs to
look the same and all the same number, the same
everything one. It should be easier on them because they
only have to make one like design. But when I
was at the TOPS industry conference, you know, a month ago,
they were talking about some of these products are going
to be across all the different sports and everything else.
So it's very interesting that right before the World Cup
that this gets announced for something that happens five years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't. I'm not an anti trust lawyer,
although I took anti trust in law school and did
very well on it, but that was a long long
time ago. That being said, I can't imagine that that
fanatics is really like going to continue to get away
with it. And at some point, you know, somebody in government,
probably not in the next two and a half years,
but somebody in like a real government will say this
is the story, this cannot happen. This is pretty much
a monopulate monopoly and a illegal restraint on trade, and
it will be one of those things where at some
point they may get broken up. And what that happened
in the next five years. Hey, you never know. I mean,
stranger things have happened.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: When I was a kid, there was one type of
phone and there was one phone company, and then you know,
as a teenager, they broke it all up into all
different kinds of phone companies and now you have Now
you have competition. That's why it's supposed to be do
you do Sprint, do you do Verizon? Do you do
whatever company? It's cricket and all this other stuff like,
that's competition. That's good for the consumer. Yeah, hobby that
everybody has to buy products from the same company, I
don't think. So it's like, you know, it's like the
same thing with grating.
Speaker 2: I feel like I feel like Fanatics and Tops they're
big enough companies where they had to have done the
lawyer aspect of making sure this isn't going against it.
I would imagine right now, that's kind of what I'd
be like, Hey, by the way, we're going to take
over this, are we still good on the legal aspect?
Legal team over there, we good, Just you know, quote everything,
I'm gonna make sure we're good, you know, on this aspect.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know, I don't know, Alex, it's
more like how much of this can we get away with?
And how how how how far are we going to
push the envelope on this?
Speaker 2: But you know, going to the whole concept. You know,
people are all talking to w n B A and
the chat and everything. What is Panini's booth gonna look
like this year at the National right? Like who are
they going to have there? Now understand they are pushing
out unlicensed basketball products there would be pushing out they
still push out unlicensed other stuff. But uh, I mean,
all these laws are happening. I mean there's a I mean,
what is that the nfl PA is doing as a
law lawsuit against leap now for using for using. We
didn't even you know, have that as one of our
topics because it came up late in the in the week.
But uh, you know, all this stuff, I mean, for
the longest time, I've always talked about and the fact
of I mean, no one else can get these people.
But Leaf is just loading up all their products with
with all these players and everything else with with with
ease and like how are they able to do this?
Which I mean again a lot of people I'm a
collector and I'm going to collect what I like, I
do like a lot of leaf stuff.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I actually hope I have a Charlie Sheen wild thing
auto up here. You know, I have an Alan Richardson
from Blue Mountain State, you know auto like different nis
stuff or whatever. And I think there's an avenue for
all of it. But I would I would hope the
Fanatics legal team has already kind of looked ahead and said, Okay,
we're gonna be fine.
Speaker 1: Uh, we're going to disagree on this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you're you're more that realm, you know
that stuff more than I do, and everything. That's just
me being a person I am.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's it's at some point and and
thank you Orlando for I think that's kind of the
point here, is that you know, they're going to take
it as far as they can take it, and maybe
is Fanatics going to try to acquire Upper Deck? Is
that something that could happen? You know, I mean, is
that the next is that the next domino that's gonna fall?
And if that happens, you know, suddenly you're you're talking
about you know, that's that's they They own the entire
industry at that point, and then that really.
Speaker 2: Well, I I mean I've always said that that collectors
Fanatics should, I honestly believe, should scoop it all up,
scoop everything up and just have a you know, overhead
parroting company and then have subsidiaries of here's Panini's, here's
upper Deck, here's this, here's Tops or whatever, and they're
making their own stuff underneath the blanket of one, so
you still have the other stuff there. So we get
all the licenses across all this, all the different products,
everything right, And and then it's like, are people upset
that you're going to be losing this from Panini? Or
they upset that, you know, Fanatics and Tops is the
only one that's gonna be making it. There's so many
different angles that people get upset about one. We know
we'll never make everyone.
Speaker 1: Well I hope so, but uh everybody.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: The cynical side is that everybody has a price tag.
Every company has a price tag. Yeah, and yeah, they
would be a boutique company.
Speaker 2: I mean able as you know. The very next one
is one of recent true and I'm pretty sure it's
eventually going to get that way. Fanatics has already started
having signed jerseys and pucks and underwrap stuff, that mystery stuff.
So I imagine it's going to eventually get that route.
But if I'm not mistaken, I believe there was a
number that was a long time ago on the table
for fanatics to buy Panini or at least the rights
in the US for the products and stuff.
Speaker 1: And oh yeah, yeah yeah, I remember that a few
weeks a few years ago.
Speaker 2: And that number was just not big enough, which kudos
to Panini for not doing that.
Speaker 1: Well, maybe they can get Ryan Cohen from Game Stop
to come in and negotiate the deal.
Speaker 2: Like we got it. We got a guy for you
right here. Come on, let's let's see what we can
do here. Because in the in the end, you know,
I think I think TOPS is just like, hey, we
want the name National Treasures, we want the name you
know this, we want you know, I mean, we found
they found that the one thing that no one knew
about is that hoops actually follows the product. Hoops follows
the NBA license, not the brand. So that's why Tops
is able to make Tops hoops is because it follows
whoever has the license. When that information came out, that
surprised everyone. I didn't know it. That was pretty cool.
Cool to know.
Speaker 1: Is that so so unbelievably, Alex, we have covered all
of those all those topics that were listed, We covered
him in under fifty four minutes.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, that oh good.
Speaker 1: I think that if the chat over there has anything
to say, uh, any question to ask, if you have
any issues you want to talk about, we got we
got another six minutes.
Speaker 2: What do you got coming up in chat? What do
you got coming up? What do you got coming up?
Speaker 1: Over the next few months, I am working a card
show in New Jersey next Sunday. It's called Exit one
seventeen card show. I've never done it before. I'm sort
of branching out after that. I'm not sure when. Well,
I'm going away. My family and I are taking a vacation,
and then my wife and I are married thirty five
years on June second, so we're going to where we
did our honeymoon thirty five years ago. And that's kind
of exciting. But then I am not attending the National
Oh yeah, but I will be going to obviously, I'm
gonna go to the Philly show. I'm stay over and
do the whole, the whole what weekend? Uh, and then
planning to go to Shriners in November in the Boston area.
And I'm also open to the possibility of going to
the Toronto Expo in November, which I'm looking into. So
we'll see what happened.
Speaker 2: I am supposed to be I'm supposed to be going
to that message.
Speaker 1: Awesome for a first time I've heard that there is
vintage there. I'm pretty much solely vintage guy. But you know,
it's going to be social event for me also, uh,
my Canadian friends and some of my US friends who
are going to be up there. So uh, that's like
my rest of the year pretty much. How about yourself?
Where are you going next?
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm I'm about to go on a crazy run.
It's just I'm so excited for us. So, uh, next
weekend' being Baltimore, there's a Baltimore card show. You know
that Bailey, who does a showdown in Nova near the
DC area, has got to show up there at u
NBC one at their call to see him a three
hundred table show. It's a it's a bigger show. Alfred Morris,
the running back, is actually coming and signing and he
loves being around the fans. He loves he loves cards
and stuff, so it's pretty cool. After that, it's more
all day, I get away, I go home for family
time for the weekend, for Memorial Day, I don't do
anything enjoying that and then go right I'm June. I'm
just all over. Starting with North Carolina the Collector's Jam
with sports Wax Promotions, James incredible. I argue that he
is one of the best. I've been so many different shows,
one of the best promoters in the country by market
sports Wax Promotions in Concord, North Carolina their Collectors Jam.
It is a six hundred plus table show he actually
has He doesn't usually have athletes come, but he has
Allen iverson coming doing a signing and uh and then uh,
Mike Wilder from Wilderside of Sports is actually bringing some natives,
some a couple Uh Carolina Panthers are now coming. They
just announced it today and I think Duke's new quarterback
is coming and doing a signing, so you know they're
hitting that at you know that the approach of you know,
the people around that area, which is pretty nice. But
James as a promoter is just he's just next level.
I love love him. And I'll always support him. After that,
it is the Nashville Show before then, you know they
do I'm going to go to that. I'm in the
works to possibly do something during the World Cup up
in the Jersey area when it's there, and uh fourth
of July of course getting away for forth July, I
don't do anything. And then right after that is the
All Star Game, so I might be on behalf of
the National maybe going for the All Star Game and
doing some stuff before Fanatics Fest and then the National
like back to back to back. It's just everywhere, and
then you're doing.
Speaker 1: Fanatics Fest that weekend when they have three major shows
in this country they do.
Speaker 2: You know, they have Dallas and they have the West
Coast Card Show. And again it's it's not the foot
traffic it's gonna be that's really affecting one. It's the
vendors wanting to be in all these events. I I
been to both Fanatics Fest before. I'm a sports nut,
you know, I know it's more than just a card show.
It's everything else. Right, Well, I do get a little
bit extra access being you know, I do content creation,
so I'll be able to do some fun stuff there.
I competed in the Fantas Games last year, came in
forty third out of one hundred fans and the athletes.
So I'm still very proud of that. So so, you know,
then goes into from that is the very next weekend
after the National, I'm in Myrtle Beach, Like I don't
take a break Myrtle Beach. Then we have it's a
slow month until Labor Day and then.
Speaker 1: We're going to Myrtle Beach the weekend before the National.
So we'll clean out the you know, the the house
that we're in that you're probably gonna be all sustained. Yeah,
so so, but we rent a whole house for the family,
So I'm not sure talking.
Speaker 2: About the talking about the expo, Johnny from Mint Inc.
We talked. We've we've known each other for a long time.
He actually wants me to come up ahead of the
Expo and we might do a tour of Canada of
all his shops across Canada leading up.
Speaker 1: So that's content, that's content gold.
Speaker 2: That I'm like, I would love. I'm like, John, you
take me along on the ride, let's do it, like
because he loves going out to the other side of Canada.
And seeing everything and work our way back across because
mintink Is you know, that is the premiere you know,
hobby shop in Canada.
Speaker 1: So yeah, well I'm I'm I'm setting up at shows
these days. I'm working, like I said, show in Jersey
next weekend, I'm gonna do uh when I get back.
I'm doing the Brooklyn show on June sixth, uh, and
then I'm probably gonna be doing the Staten Island show
in July. And so I'm doing like like maybe once
a month, setting up at shows, mostly vintage baseball, A
lot of set builder stuff, a lot of boxes filled
with stuff. I'm organizing all the time. So it's an
hour uh before.
Speaker 2: It's right here, so I can't actually picks up technically
a vantage card at the last show that.
Speaker 1: This oh geez wow wow is the so damn it
is the nineteen for those only listening in nineteen sixty three,
Mickey Mantle in a BBG seven. Uh. And I only
see green on the bottom there. I don't see any white.
Speaker 2: Which is yeah, it has a little bit there at
the bottom. The centering is pretty decent, you know. It
is a little bit on the right side, a little heavy,
but the back of the card also just looks.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the back of the card is freaking centered
crazy too nice.
Speaker 2: So it was one of the one of the recent pickup.
I meant to have it over here knowing you you're
a hosting I really forgot.
Speaker 1: So well that's a good way to good way to
wrap it up. As always. Wonderful to see you, Alex.
Like I said, I'll probably see you face to face
in Philly again in September. Looking forward to that and
I'll get you and uh and send you a message
about the get together if you can make it. But
it's been a nice talking about a lot of a
lot of subjects, a lot going on the hobby right now,
some of them, you know, a lot of industry stuff,
some collector stuff, but obviously some important stuff too when
it comes to show safety, particularly when it comes to kids.
And I think that your your message is right. However
it started to get out. Now that it's out, it's
something that people have to be paying more so check
Thanks again, guys, Thank you, Orlando, Thank you card curmudgeon.
Oh yeah, yeah, there you go. You gotta congress and
sweet and an awesome card. Awesome, So we're gonna wrap
it up, Alex, take care, chat take care. See you guys.
Hobby Hotline every Saturday at eleven am. I'm not sure
when I'm hosting again in June at some point, but
we'll see you guys, see you soon.
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to this episode of Hobby Hotline.
Just want to remind everyone we are a live show
every Saturday morning, eleven am eastern eight am Pacific on
the four Collectors channel on YouTube.
Speaker 3: That's the number four, the word Collector's channel on YouTube.
Speaker 1: We hope to see many of you live on a
future Saturday.
Speaker 2: We have a great interactive chat room and we always
provide a link for anyone that wants to come on
the show and chop it up with us. So that's
a reminder. Every Saturday, eleven am eastern eight am Pacific,
only four Collectors channel on YouTube. Hope to see you
on the show.