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Speaker 4: shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that
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Speaker 4: Every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking
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Speaker 4: your host, journalist and author Dan Zufanski.
Speaker 5: Good evening, This is your host for the program True Murder,
Speaker 5: The most shocking killers in true crime history and the
Speaker 5: authors that have written about them, with your host Dan
Speaker 5: Sepansky Ford. For Darlene Roberts, a quiet drive home from
Speaker 5: work turned out to be the end of the road
Speaker 5: when a stranded motorist flagged her down. As soon as
Speaker 5: she stopped, Darling was forcibly dragged from her car and
Speaker 5: viciously thrown to the ground, bound with cords and tightly gagged.
Speaker 5: A second attacker stepped into the scene, a woman in
Speaker 5: a hood and a mask. In the ensuing struggle, the
Speaker 5: woman's mouth slipped off, revealing the face of Darling's husband,
Speaker 5: Darling's Husband's ex wife, Barbara Ann Roberts. Darling broke away
Speaker 5: from her broke away, running for her life. The couple
Speaker 5: pursued her across the field until they found her hiding
Speaker 5: in the grass, a shotgun was aimed in fired point blank. Later,
Speaker 5: Darling was found floating in a pond. Who fired the
Speaker 5: fatal shot the bitter ex wife or her lover, an
Speaker 5: accompliced millionaire neurosurgeon, doctor Robert Schiss, the third only one
Speaker 5: of them be convicted in this disturbing, twisted tale of lovers, cheaters,
Speaker 5: and killers in a small Alivama town. The book is
Speaker 5: Blood Ambush with my special guest Sheila Johnson. Thank you
Speaker 5: very much for Greening's interview and welcome back to the program.
Speaker 5: Sheila Johnson very much, well, thank you. Now, first off,
Speaker 5: how did you come to be involved in writing a
Speaker 5: book about this murder case in particular? And why did
Speaker 5: you want to write about this case in particular?
Speaker 6: Well, the case happened in the county where I live,
Speaker 6: and at the time I was looking at another book
Speaker 6: and I was pretty much settled doing that one. But
Speaker 6: then this thing started to unfold and it just kept
Speaker 6: getting more and more twisted and intertwined, and so many
Speaker 6: things didn't add up, and it just it got to
Speaker 6: be in a situation where I had to write this book,
Speaker 6: you know, I had to.
Speaker 5: Now, first off, who was Darlene Roberts. So if you
Speaker 5: give us a little bit about her character and we're
Speaker 5: and also the setting of this is in Cherokee County, Alabama,
Speaker 5: So give us a little bit of a sort of
Speaker 5: a geographical idea of where this is in relation to
Speaker 5: say other nearby bigger cities and neighboring states and Alabama itself.
Speaker 6: Well, we're about the same distance here in Cherokee County
Speaker 6: from Atlanta as we are from Birmingham, or as we
Speaker 6: are from Chattanooga, Tennessee. We're sort of in a triangle here.
Speaker 6: And this is a very rural area, but strangely enough,
Speaker 6: it's also a resort area because there's a there's a
Speaker 6: huge lake here, and there's all mannered recreation and boating, fishing, camping,
Speaker 6: water sports. There's you know, very big in this part
Speaker 6: of the Southeast. So it makes for a sort of
Speaker 6: a strange mix having some old time farm communities and
Speaker 6: then this resort that's come up since the TBA built
Speaker 6: a damn and created this huge lake, and it's there
Speaker 6: are a lot of what we could call unsolved mysteries
Speaker 6: in this area that I was speaking to someone today
Speaker 6: about how many other cases there are here that have
Speaker 6: just had been equally bizarre but have never been solved,
Speaker 6: so that may be all manner of books lurking around
Speaker 6: here in the future. And Darlene you wanted to know
Speaker 6: about Darlene Ross, Okay, Darlene was extremely well liked. She
Speaker 6: was a really attractive lady. And she worked at a
Speaker 6: big paper mill over in Rome, Georgia, which is just
Speaker 6: across the county line in the state line here from
Speaker 6: this county. And while she was working there, she met
Speaker 6: this really handsome fellow that you could only refer to
Speaker 6: as a lady's man. His name was Vernon Roberts, and
Speaker 6: he was in the process of divorcing his wife. They
Speaker 6: had been talking back and forth about separating and divorcing
Speaker 6: for some time, and Darlene fell hard for this guy,
Speaker 6: and they were married after Vernon got his divorce from
Speaker 6: Barbara Anne Roberts, his ex wife, and they were evidently
Speaker 6: quite happy. And Darlene was on her way home from
Speaker 6: work one night and next thing, you know, like you
Speaker 6: were saying, she was pulled over, dragged out of the car,
Speaker 6: and she had no clue why what was going on
Speaker 6: until she recognized Barbara and poor Darlene, you know, a
Speaker 6: lot of people were it fought here, but she was
Speaker 6: certainly not one of them. She was, you know, totally
Speaker 6: innocent victim.
Speaker 5: Well, let's go back a little bit here to Barbara
Speaker 5: and Roberts. The obviously we talked to her and she's
Speaker 5: the perpetrator here, but let's talk about Barbara and Roberts
Speaker 5: and the kind of relationship she had with Vernon Roberts
Speaker 5: before Darlene came into the picture. What was that situation, like,
Speaker 5: how did Barbara and Roberts meet Vernon? Tell us a
Speaker 5: little bit about that and the split tell us give
Speaker 5: us a little bit of that backgrap.
Speaker 6: Well, okay, Barbara and Vernon met in Texas, which is
Speaker 6: where they were both from originally, and Vernon had just
Speaker 6: divorced his first wife and he was stuck without a
Speaker 6: vehicle or place to live, no money, couldn't pay his
Speaker 6: child support. And Barbara kind of stepped in and befriended him,
Speaker 6: and she fell hard for him, just like evidently so
Speaker 6: many others have. And then they were married, and they
Speaker 6: were married for quite a few years, and I think
Speaker 6: things were okay at first, and then they started sort
Speaker 6: of on a downhill slide when Barbara started becoming more
Speaker 6: depressed and neurotic than you know, she had ever been previously.
Speaker 6: She had been having trouble since her young adulthood was depression,
Speaker 6: and it is it got worse. The situation with Vernon
Speaker 6: got worse, and when he got transferred over to the
Speaker 6: Rome Georgia plant where he was working, when he met Darlene,
Speaker 6: then from that point on they went downhill fast. Barbara's
Speaker 6: middle condition deteriorated quite a bit, and Vernon was increasingly dissatisfied.
Speaker 6: And I think the majority of it hinged on her
Speaker 6: depression worsening like it did, and she sought quite a
Speaker 6: bit of help for it at the time.
Speaker 5: So was there, like it happens in a lot of times,
Speaker 5: was there an obvious overlap where his wife was depressed
Speaker 5: and created tension in the relationship and then his transfer
Speaker 5: to Rome Georgia and meeting Darlene, there was there a
Speaker 5: big overlap of it, didn't just you know, was there
Speaker 5: an overlap in a couple of years where there was
Speaker 5: a relationship developing with Darlene or his disatisfaction with Barbara,
Speaker 5: and tell us about that overlap that usually happens in relationships,
Speaker 5: And if.
Speaker 6: There was one thing I think there was some overlap
Speaker 6: here in this one, not as much as there might
Speaker 6: possibly have been. But I believe that he did begin
Speaker 6: seeing Darlene a little prematurely, she'll we say, and I
Speaker 6: think that contributed to Barbara's worse than meddle condition, also
Speaker 6: because she could sense something coming on. But I don't
Speaker 6: think there was a as nearly as large an overlap
Speaker 6: as there is in many cases like that.
Speaker 5: Now you talked about that she was diagnosed with clinical depression,
Speaker 5: was that the only psychiatric psychological evaluation that she had
Speaker 5: in designation that she had was just depression. You said
Speaker 5: that happened in her early years, but during her relationship
Speaker 5: with Vernon. She's an adult, so it was not the
Speaker 5: only diagnosis that she did have.
Speaker 6: Officially, well, she had quite a few different problems. I
Speaker 6: think they all stem from the depression primarily. But she
Speaker 6: for some reason her self esteem was not as high
Speaker 6: as it should have been, and I think that was
Speaker 6: rooted in a lot of the depression, and it was
Speaker 6: the cause of a lot of it. And she was
Speaker 6: lonely when she moved here. She was away from her
Speaker 6: family and from other people that she knew, and she
Speaker 6: didn't really have any friends, and that contributed to things.
Speaker 6: And by the time she started checking herself into clinics
Speaker 6: and psychiatric facilities, what she did, many times, her diagnosis
Speaker 6: would just jump all over the place, depending on what
Speaker 6: page of the book she was on that day. You know,
Speaker 6: she sometimes would present with just almost suicidal depression, and
Speaker 6: other times Vernon would report to him that he was
Speaker 6: afraid for his safety and things of that nature. Of course,
Speaker 6: I think part of that was just to perhaps cause
Speaker 6: her more problems than she was already having. And it
Speaker 6: was real varying situation from one incident to the next.
Speaker 6: On one occasion, she checked herself in to the clinic
Speaker 6: because Vernon had insisted that she have her real elderly
Speaker 6: dog put down, and he said that he was going
Speaker 6: on a business trip and it better be gone by
Speaker 6: the time he got home. And she was so upset
Speaker 6: by that that her doctor went with her to the
Speaker 6: vets office to have the dog put to sleep, and
Speaker 6: then went with her to check herself in. So it
Speaker 6: was it was a sad situation. I think she was
Speaker 6: manipulated and and probably things were a lot worse for
Speaker 6: than they would have been otherwise.
Speaker 5: What was her early life like growing up? Uh uh?
Speaker 5: In your research, W, what were her parents like we did?
Speaker 4: Did?
Speaker 5: Did she lead a a somewhat normal life? W tell
Speaker 5: us a little bit about that life.
Speaker 6: She lived a very normal life. She was the middle
Speaker 6: child of I think about seven and they had a
Speaker 6: very good, solid upbringing, good parents. The parents bagged education
Speaker 6: and just went to great links to make sure that
Speaker 6: all their children did the best they possibly could. They
Speaker 6: were a very religious family, and she did lots of
Speaker 6: things growing up with their her brothers and sisters, and
Speaker 6: they were fairly close. And she couldn't have had a
Speaker 6: more normal ideal utbring no trauma that I ever could
Speaker 6: find anywhere, but you know, nothing of that sort that
Speaker 6: normally causes things of this sort to get worse. But
Speaker 6: I don't think she could have really had a nicer family.
Speaker 6: They're taking this really hard, you know, by the way.
Speaker 6: The whole thing is really disturbing to them.
Speaker 5: Sure, Now, when did she get the I don't want
Speaker 5: to jump ahead, but just just so I kind of
Speaker 5: know here and our audience knows, is when did she
Speaker 5: get the more serious bipolar designation by the doctors, which
Speaker 5: was previously known as schizophrenic. So when did she when
Speaker 5: was she diagnosed with this bipolar disease.
Speaker 6: That started happening. Well, like I was telling you, around
Speaker 6: the time that she started checking herself into the clinics
Speaker 6: while she and Vernon were talking about divorce or separation.
Speaker 6: She began kind of creeping over in that direction at
Speaker 6: that time, and she began to get worse as time passed.
Speaker 6: She would sort of stalk Darlene, and then when she
Speaker 6: and Vernon started dating, she'd go sneaking up to the
Speaker 6: house disguised in the dark and spy on them. And
Speaker 6: I think she put a smoke bomb in the furnace
Speaker 6: vand at Darlene's apartment on one occasion, and just things
Speaker 6: of that nature. She started doing all these things too.
Speaker 6: I don't know if she was trying to irritate them
Speaker 6: or if she just was trying to feed some need
Speaker 6: that she had to find out what they were up to.
Speaker 5: In your research, did you find that she wanted Vernon
Speaker 5: back in her life or she wanted to be back
Speaker 5: in Vernon's life? And how did she view Darlene in
Speaker 5: terms of being the source of the problem in the
Speaker 5: first place, did she who did she direct her anger towards?
Speaker 5: More so Vernon or Darlene.
Speaker 6: Well, I think she wanted Vernon back. She never has
Speaker 6: just directly come out and told me so, because of
Speaker 6: some of the things he did, you know, following the murder.
Speaker 6: But I think before that incident she would have taken
Speaker 6: him back in a heartbeat. However, by that time, she
Speaker 6: already had a very wealthy, well to do boyfriend and
Speaker 6: had had for a while in the doctor. And I
Speaker 6: don't think she blamed Darlene for their breakup because it
Speaker 6: started so much, you know, it was previous to Darlene
Speaker 6: coming on the scene, and I don't think she blamed
Speaker 6: her for that, but she was somewhat jealous, and I
Speaker 6: think there was a lot of rivalry and then just
Speaker 6: finally there was some outright anger when all these pranks
Speaker 6: started taking place on her art and Darlene's both.
Speaker 5: Well, you mentioned you've alluded about to the doctor, doctor Robert,
Speaker 5: and am I pronouncing this wrong? Let me know it's
Speaker 5: it's it's Schiss.
Speaker 6: Well, actually it's She's, She's, She's. He was very adamant
Speaker 6: when he was in jail up here with all the
Speaker 6: law enforcement people about how his name was supposed to
Speaker 6: be pronounced, and he would correct everybody in a heartbeat,
Speaker 6: because evidently schiss in one of the Germanic languages is
Speaker 6: I think it's a word for human excrement.
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Speaker 6: Okay, we always wanted it pronounced she and made a
Speaker 6: great point of it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would imagine. Yeah, okay, So now who is
Speaker 5: who is this doctor Robert Sheh and what was their
Speaker 5: relationship characterized by? And I just wanted to know too
Speaker 5: that to let the audience know when we're describing these people,
Speaker 5: tell us really what the you know, if there's an
Speaker 5: age difference between this doctor Robert Sheesh and Barbara Ann
Speaker 5: and then Darlene and then Vernon, and then what is
Speaker 5: the dynamic in terms of looks? I think all people
Speaker 5: are always interested in that. What does Darlene look like?
Speaker 5: What's the age difference between her and Barbara? What does
Speaker 5: Barbara look like? And what's the age difference between her
Speaker 5: and doctor Robert Sheesh and give us a little bit
Speaker 5: of that picture.
Speaker 6: Okay, Darlene is very attractive person. She was a really
Speaker 6: attractive lady. She had, you know, nice small build, and
Speaker 6: she was blond and Vernon was brown eyed, handsome man,
Speaker 6: you know, tall, dark and handsome. They were very attractive couple.
Speaker 6: And the age difference there, Darlene was a little bit
Speaker 6: younger than Vernon. Now Barbara was about the same age
Speaker 6: as Vernon, and Barbara is a Barbara is literally a chameleon.
Speaker 6: There are pictures in the book that will show that
Speaker 6: pretty well. The cover shot is one of her. It
Speaker 6: was her mugshot when she was arrested. But and she
Speaker 6: looked pretty plain and haggard and worn in that and
Speaker 6: a little bit on the stocky side when she was arrested.
Speaker 6: But I have had passport photos over and some just
Speaker 6: really glamour shot pictures over from previous years, and she
Speaker 6: can just look astounding when you know, certain times her
Speaker 6: family has told me that they never knew when she'd
Speaker 6: come home to visit what she was going to look
Speaker 6: like when she got there, because she would change, you know,
Speaker 6: so much from one time to the next. The last
Speaker 6: time I saw her in person, she was thin and
Speaker 6: frail and looked like she was having some hair loss
Speaker 6: or her hair was getting brittle, which, by the way,
Speaker 6: I've come to notice happens a lot of the time
Speaker 6: when people are incarcerated, both men and women. I've had
Speaker 6: that happen to two of my people in my books
Speaker 6: so far. And the doctor is maybe a couple of
Speaker 6: years older than Barbara, but not much. And he's tall,
Speaker 6: big built, her curly gray hair, and he's a brilliant
Speaker 6: man and it shows on his face.
Speaker 5: Okay, Now, what where did they Where did Barbara add
Speaker 5: and the good doctor meet under what's circle status? And
Speaker 5: then how did they proceed from there?
Speaker 6: Well? After the divorce, Barbara was working in some of
Speaker 6: the hospitals and clinics. She was trained radiologist, and she
Speaker 6: did mimography and several other things. She's a brilliant person too,
Speaker 6: as far as that goes. And she had been well educated,
Speaker 6: and she was working in some of the hospitals and
Speaker 6: clinics where the doctor also worked. And they met on
Speaker 6: the internet, and then they got together after they met
Speaker 6: a very short time. I think it was a place
Speaker 6: called kiss dot com where they struck up an acquaintance
Speaker 6: and then after they met, they started getting together and
Speaker 6: Barbara I did had they had a serious automobile accident
Speaker 6: after they had been together a short time, and that
Speaker 6: changed the dynamic of everything for both of them because
Speaker 6: prior to that, the doctor had been a practicing neurosurgeon
Speaker 6: who was one of the best anywhere, who was regarded
Speaker 6: as one of the top men in the country really,
Speaker 6: and once they had this automobile accident, he could not
Speaker 6: practice medicine anymore except just on a consulting basis, because
Speaker 6: he had tremors, and you don't want a guy with
Speaker 6: tremors operating, you know, on your brain. And Barbara also
Speaker 6: suffered enough injuries that she qualified for disability from that point.
Speaker 6: She was injured and could not use her arms as
Speaker 6: well that she had nerve damage in her arms, which
Speaker 6: brings the whole situation around to could she or could
Speaker 6: she not hold up a shotgun and fire it. That's
Speaker 6: one of the key points in the whole case right there,
Speaker 6: right And I personally don't believe that she did it.
Speaker 6: I have never believed she was guilty of firing those
Speaker 6: three fatal point blank shots, and I don't think I
Speaker 6: ever will believe it.
Speaker 5: Okay, let's just go back just a bit here, because
Speaker 5: you see, you you talk about extensively in the book
Speaker 5: about really the effects the trauma on both of them.
Speaker 5: Uh Am, I am I correct in thinking that Barbara
Speaker 5: Ann also was traumatized by the injury itself as well
Speaker 5: by the numerous injuries, and then her conditions, uh psychologically
Speaker 5: were greatly exasperated, as acerbated, I should say. And so
Speaker 5: give us the damage that that seemed to be psychological
Speaker 5: after this, and and also what happened psychologically to the
Speaker 5: doctor because he now couldn't he couldn't be the surgeon
Speaker 5: that he was, and he had these other injuries. So
Speaker 5: tell us a little bit about that follow up to
Speaker 5: that car crash.
Speaker 6: Well, the doctor was devastated because he was no longer
Speaker 6: able to practice, and I think that had an extremely
Speaker 6: depressing effect on him. And I think he had some
Speaker 6: anger problems already, which that just naturally made that much worse.
Speaker 6: And both of them I think got a little too
Speaker 6: free with their pain prescriptions. And he of course could
Speaker 6: write prescriptions for her, and wrote quite a few for
Speaker 6: her for all manner of different things. And she was
Speaker 6: depressed because she couldn't work anymore. And they were both
Speaker 6: in a lot of pain for several months because of
Speaker 6: the nerve damage. Barbara had some neck problems, the doctor
Speaker 6: had I think a broken eye socket, and they both
Speaker 6: had leg damage and Barbara had eternal injuries. It was
Speaker 6: a long term recovery from that accident, and in that
Speaker 6: time they both pretty much lost everything that they enjoyed doing,
Speaker 6: and they were left with not a whole lot to
Speaker 6: do but take pills and think the doctor drank quite
Speaker 6: a bit too, and that made both of their emotional
Speaker 6: conditions a lot worse I think than they would have
Speaker 6: been had the accident not happened. The murder probably would
Speaker 6: never have happened either.
Speaker 5: Right now, where does this two thousand and four memorial
Speaker 5: do weekend? This bizarre incident with police. Tell us a
Speaker 5: little bit about that and where that fits into this.
Speaker 6: Well, they were on their way, I think they were
Speaker 6: headed back home from a trip to Atlanta, and they
Speaker 6: were stopped on the highway, and I think they were
Speaker 6: stopped to change drivers. They never would say exactly why
Speaker 6: they stopped, but an off Deedy Highway patrolman drove by
Speaker 6: and saw the doctor grabbing Barbara by the like the
Speaker 6: back waistband of the pants and shake it her, and
Speaker 6: he thought something might be going on, so he stopped
Speaker 6: to check them out, and they were both drinking, they
Speaker 6: were both taking pills, and they both just went wild.
Speaker 6: Barbara was all flipped out, and the doctor got furious
Speaker 6: and started screaming and threatening the patrolman and demanding to
Speaker 6: see his badge number and demanding that he called the police.
Speaker 6: And he tried to explain to him that he was
Speaker 6: a police and the doctor was having none of that,
Speaker 6: and they had to physically restrain both of them, separate them,
Speaker 6: and the doctor kept trying to cause problems, and it
Speaker 6: just it turned into a really big situation where they
Speaker 6: both got arrested and both went to jail.
Speaker 5: And then how long after that do we have that
Speaker 5: faithful day? And I want you to describe an outline,
Speaker 5: well outline that faithful day previous to the incident that
Speaker 5: we talked about before, and then go back into describing
Speaker 5: exactly because as the detail of what really happens that
Speaker 5: night is incredible and very important later to the trials,
Speaker 5: it's very strange turn of events. So please do that
Speaker 5: for us outline that faithful day, but also tell us
Speaker 5: how long is it after this bizarre incident with police
Speaker 5: that we're now set with this very very bizarre murder event.
Speaker 6: It was a year or two at least, because they
Speaker 6: had a lot of time to steal about this. And
Speaker 6: in the meantime, Barbara started having an affair with Vernon,
Speaker 6: the ex husband. Uh, yes, she would. She would call
Speaker 6: in many times a week. He would call her telling
Speaker 6: her that he loved her and all sorts of things
Speaker 6: like that, just all sweet and friendly and nice. And
Speaker 6: I think that he was stoking his ego, just just
Speaker 6: showing himself that he could get her any time he
Speaker 6: wanted to. And so that started. That went on for
Speaker 6: about three months, and then the doctor found out about
Speaker 6: it when Barbara felt bad and confess to him that
Speaker 6: she had been coming over and sleeping with Vernon.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah.
Speaker 6: Then the doctor got mad and he decided that the
Speaker 6: thing for him to do would be to do something
Speaker 6: to Darlene, like scare or assault her in some way
Speaker 6: to get back at Vernon. So that's when the plan
Speaker 6: started to come over here and kidnapp whatever. I don't
Speaker 6: think they actually planned all the way up through to
Speaker 6: a murder until it got out of hand, and it happened,
Speaker 6: But they stole some highway road signs, road blocked, you know,
Speaker 6: detour of things like that over in Georgia, brought him
Speaker 6: over here into Alabama and blocked the road that Darlene
Speaker 6: was going to be coming home on, just in case
Speaker 6: she tried to take another route. They wanted to be
Speaker 6: sure that she stayed on the route that they were
Speaker 6: familiar with, on the dirt road that led up to
Speaker 6: their house. Then they stopped. They came equipped with all
Speaker 6: manner of things to tie her up with and stuff
Speaker 6: to disguise Barbara so that Darlene wouldn't know who she was.
Speaker 6: They came over and proceeded to stop on the side
Speaker 6: of the road and raised the hood on the truck,
Speaker 6: and Darlene stopped to see if she could help. All
Speaker 6: she could see was the doctor Bob, and she didn't
Speaker 6: know him, so she stopped to see if she could help.
Speaker 6: And that's when he yanked her out of the car.
Speaker 6: And Barbara got out and she saw what was going on,
Speaker 6: and Darlene did and knew what kind of trouble she
Speaker 6: was in. Now Darling was able to break free from them,
Speaker 6: and well, he didn't have her tied tightly as he
Speaker 6: thought he did, because he was drinking at the time
Speaker 6: this happened, and extremely you know, hyped up, and he
Speaker 6: didn't have her tied all that well. So she managed
Speaker 6: to get free from him and started running down through
Speaker 6: the pasture around the fence. And they were just happened
Speaker 6: at a pasture of the farm pond by the way
Speaker 6: out in the way out in the country. And she
Speaker 6: ran around the outside edge of the pasture, inside the fence,
Speaker 6: but you know, trying to get away from around the outside,
Speaker 6: and then she ran down towards the little farm pond
Speaker 6: that was down in a little depressed area in the center,
Speaker 6: and Barbara was chasing her. According to the statement that
Speaker 6: she gave the police, she was running after her, and
Speaker 6: she claimed that Bob jumped in Darlene's vehicle and drove
Speaker 6: down and picked Barbara up, and then they went on
Speaker 6: down in the vehicle to the pond. And at that
Speaker 6: point that's that's where the shooting supposedly took place to
Speaker 6: I think that Barbara had probably fired a couple of
Speaker 6: shots from the shotgun at a distance before she started
Speaker 6: chasing Darlene. But I don't believe she could have hit
Speaker 6: her for anything. There may have been a little scattered
Speaker 6: buck shot, but that's not where the fatal shooting took place.
Speaker 6: And when they got to the pond, Barbara was all upset.
Speaker 6: After the shots were fired that killed Darlene was she
Speaker 6: was hiding the pond and they shot her and her
Speaker 6: body was floating in the pond. And Barbara's glasses got broken. Now,
Speaker 6: the prosecutors always claimed that the glasses were broken when
Speaker 6: the shotgun backfired, not backfired, but you know, the recoil
Speaker 6: from it hit her in the face. I think that
Speaker 6: it went the way Barbera said, and the glasses were
Speaker 6: broken when the doctor who was holding the shotgun after
Speaker 6: I believe he used it himself and did the final shots,
Speaker 6: he turned around and hit her in the face with
Speaker 6: the gun stock and broke her glasses. And then they
Speaker 6: loaded up in the truck. They went off and left
Speaker 6: the vehicle of Darlens sitting down there in the pasture,
Speaker 6: sort of hidden in behind some little bushes, and they
Speaker 6: went back to the truck and took off. Well, they
Speaker 6: were seen. Their truck was seen there by any number
Speaker 6: of local people who always noticed a strange vehicle in
Speaker 6: the area. They had people that were passing by that
Speaker 6: stopped and looked, and after they had left their and
Speaker 6: saw Darlen's car sitting down there and reported that. And
Speaker 6: in the meantime, some other people on up the road
Speaker 6: were seeing Doc and Barbara stopped on the side of
Speaker 6: the road fighting and saw him pick her up and
Speaker 6: throw her back into the truck and take off again.
Speaker 6: So this this thing just got wilder? Is it progressed?
Speaker 5: Well, let's go back to this murder scene here, because
Speaker 5: to me it doesn't make any sense really, or it
Speaker 5: makes little sense. First, they now, where do you get this?
Speaker 5: Where where did you get the factual part that you
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Speaker 5: Was there? Where did that evidence come from? That they
Speaker 5: come from Barbara and herself? Because or did he come
Speaker 5: from the doctor?
Speaker 6: Well, that's the thing about how things turned out the
Speaker 6: way they did. For Barbara. The doctor he never once
Speaker 6: made one single statement of any kind to anybody. He
Speaker 6: never said a word. And poor Barbara, on the other hand,
Speaker 6: just made statements. Every time she'd get anybody that would
Speaker 6: listen to her. She told everything. And she said that
Speaker 6: they had planned to come over, and she thought all
Speaker 6: they were going to do was scared Darlene. But they
Speaker 6: had planned the route. There was a map that was
Speaker 6: marked with the route that was found in the doctor's apartment.
Speaker 6: They found the packaging from his shotgun. They found receipts
Speaker 6: from a gun club where he taken lessons on how
Speaker 6: to use it, fire it. They just found all manner
Speaker 6: of evidence that the thing was premeditated. They found the
Speaker 6: same materials that they had taken along to tie her
Speaker 6: up with. They had more of that in the apartment,
Speaker 6: the green plastic film and some cotton gauze, and a
Speaker 6: lot of that was found. Barbara's story to people was
Speaker 6: that she had had a skating accident trying to learn
Speaker 6: how to inline skate, and they had gone to the
Speaker 6: sporting goods store and bought two pairs of inline skates
Speaker 6: that were still in their box and never had been used.
Speaker 6: And there was just all kinds of evidence. When they
Speaker 6: got into the apartment, they found more than enough.
Speaker 5: Now there is a certain dynamic here as well that
Speaker 5: this doctor Robert, he's got a lot of money and
Speaker 5: there was just a part of the story is that
Speaker 5: there was and I want you to explain how this
Speaker 5: happens because this is sort of unusual too. Person and
Speaker 5: accused of murder. Two people accused the murder out on bail,
Speaker 5: but then their veil their bail was revoked. You know,
Speaker 5: why would that be? And you can tell us why.
Speaker 5: You know, it is quite unusual why that bail was revoked.
Speaker 5: But then how Barbara Ann thought she might have some
Speaker 5: money for decent representation and then she had no money whatsoever.
Speaker 5: And and in your estimation, does this make this quite
Speaker 5: a bit of a different story with the ability of
Speaker 5: him being able to afford a really really good lawyer
Speaker 5: and all of a sudden, she's indigen and can't afford
Speaker 5: any lawyer.
Speaker 6: Really, there there's reasons for all that. There certainly is.
Speaker 6: They were charged, but they didn't indict them until the
Speaker 6: grand jury met, you know, several months after the event.
Speaker 6: So they were released on very high bond, which he
Speaker 6: was able to pay for both of them. He covered
Speaker 6: both their bond, and then, against all their lawyer's advice,
Speaker 6: they went back to together and continued living together until the
Speaker 6: grand jury over here indicted both of them and they
Speaker 6: were both rearrested, but their bond was revoked and that
Speaker 6: they were rearrested, and Barbara never really had any resources
Speaker 6: of her own. The doctor was, you know, pretty much
Speaker 6: paying her way for everything, sure, and I feel that
Speaker 6: she probably had been promised a lot if she would
Speaker 6: not testify and keep her mouth shut, and she just,
Speaker 6: you know, she didn't testify, but she sure didn't keep
Speaker 6: her mouth shut either, because she just gave statement after statement,
Speaker 6: and each one would be just a little more incriminating
Speaker 6: than the last one. And she provided enough information that
Speaker 6: I think the doctor's family pulled the plug on her resources.
Speaker 6: And then she had to She had hired an attorney
Speaker 6: originally over in Georgia, and he had got a helper
Speaker 6: lie up here. The attorney that she ended up with
Speaker 6: here in Cherokee County was going to originally help this man,
Speaker 6: and then he dropped out of the situation when it
Speaker 6: became a capital murder case. He didn't feel that he
Speaker 6: was qualified to handle one in Alabama, and so she
Speaker 6: fired him and just kept the one that she had
Speaker 6: here in this county.
Speaker 5: But it makes a lot of sense too. If he
Speaker 5: was paying for her representation and he had he were
Speaker 5: to give her the same not the same lawyer, but
Speaker 5: if they were not the share lawyers, but give her
Speaker 5: a really good lawyer, that lawyer's logical thing to do
Speaker 5: is to put the blame on him, so he would
Speaker 5: be essentially financing and not in his best interest. A
Speaker 5: lawyer would would be hurting him. So yeah, that makes
Speaker 5: a lot of sense. And whatever agreement they had, she
Speaker 5: did open her mouth, so he did the smart thing
Speaker 5: by keeping his mouth shut.
Speaker 6: Well, that was really the only thing he could have done,
Speaker 6: and by doing that he essentially got himself out of
Speaker 6: jail in about three years for that because he ended
Speaker 6: up at first he was going to cop the insanity plea,
Speaker 6: which has never really been that successful in this state.
Speaker 6: And then his lawyer persuaded him to take a deal,
Speaker 6: and he got offered the deal of a lifetime. He
Speaker 6: got charged with kidnapping and pled guilty to that, and
Speaker 6: I think he ended up serving about three years counting
Speaker 6: his time served waiting for the trial that didn't happen.
Speaker 5: Why could you said, there was a truckload of evidence that,
Speaker 5: you know, a lot of it's circumstantial, but certainly maybe
Speaker 5: enough evidence to take to a jury. Why could they
Speaker 5: Why did they have to make a plea agreement with
Speaker 5: them and give them such a you know, a good
Speaker 5: deal basically just for kidnapping. It couldn't prove anything beyond kidnapping.
Speaker 6: They couldn't prove anything because the only evidence they had
Speaker 6: that could have really tied him in to being something
Speaker 6: besides just an accessory was Barbara. And she told so
Speaker 6: many different versions, so many different times, and never would
Speaker 6: testify in court against him. She literally dug herself into
Speaker 6: a very deep hole and allowed him to get out
Speaker 6: of it pretty much because she had criminated herself to
Speaker 6: the point that they had no option but to charge
Speaker 6: her with capital murder.
Speaker 5: Now you say, that Barbara Anne claimed to me. This
Speaker 5: doesn't make logical sense to me, but she claimed that
Speaker 5: he was going to sexually assault her as well as
Speaker 5: revenge for Vernon having sex with Barbara.
Speaker 6: Now, he had mentioned that, I think in a fit
Speaker 6: of anger that he ought to do that. But she
Speaker 6: thought they were only coming over to kidnap her and
Speaker 6: scare her. Pretty well, I think is how they put it.
Speaker 6: He said, I bet that scared the hell out of
Speaker 6: her after she was lighting the pond shot in the
Speaker 6: head point blank.
Speaker 5: But I don't understand why Barbara, and what was her
Speaker 5: explanation for wanting to do this. I mean, yeah, we
Speaker 5: just wanted to scare her and we wanted to kidnap her.
Speaker 5: Why would she be a participant in this the mix
Speaker 5: I think very crazy.
Speaker 6: I think she was going to do it to make
Speaker 6: up to the doctor for having slept with Vernon. Wow,
Speaker 6: I think I think that was her logic. Her logic
Speaker 6: at that time was nothing like it is now. She's
Speaker 6: an entirely different person. Said, she's in prison in a
Speaker 6: controlled environment, her medication is adjusted right, and you know
Speaker 6: she's she's just totally changed. But at that time I
Speaker 6: think her somewhat skewed reasoning was that if she helped
Speaker 6: him scare Darlene and get back at Vernon, then maybe
Speaker 6: he wouldn't be as mad at her for having slept
Speaker 6: at Vernon because she was totally dependent on him then
Speaker 6: for support and you know, a place to live and
Speaker 6: everything was he was literally taken care.
Speaker 5: Of her, right so she did whatever. So he must
Speaker 5: have been on you know, I mean, they were drinking
Speaker 5: and they're doing pills, and they're living with each other,
Speaker 5: so he must have been on almost the same crazy
Speaker 5: kind of plain as her in terms of being out
Speaker 5: of character and pretty wild.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't think he would have been like that
Speaker 6: had the accident not happened, because prior to that, I think,
Speaker 6: you know, he was, like I said, a very renowned
Speaker 6: neurosurgeon and he had nothing crossing him. There was nothing
Speaker 6: in life that was not in his control and that
Speaker 6: was not going his way, and nobody ever said no
Speaker 6: to him. And then all of a sudden, you know,
Speaker 6: everything fell apart from him. I think that accounts for
Speaker 6: a lot of his rage and the condition that he
Speaker 6: got himself into mentally.
Speaker 5: Now, I want to get this further. The audience as well, though,
Speaker 5: that that Barbara Ann wore a surgical mask. She put
Speaker 5: a hood on to disguise her identity because obviously Darling
Speaker 5: would know who she was, and then that that would
Speaker 5: foil any kind of plans that they had to ambush
Speaker 5: her by virtue of the fake car accident or fake
Speaker 5: need of help on the road. Now, at some point
Speaker 5: Barbara Ann's mask comes off. When was that? And then
Speaker 5: when was that the exact moment as far as you
Speaker 5: could find out, And then why did they despite her
Speaker 5: running away? Why do you think they killed her? It
Speaker 5: wasn't Darlene, I mean, part of it wasn't Barbara d
Speaker 5: Why do you think he killed her? If their original
Speaker 5: idea was just a kidnap?
Speaker 6: Well, she Darlene first saw that that was Barbara after
Speaker 6: the doctor had her out of the car and was
Speaker 6: tying her up. Barbara got out and came out with
Speaker 6: a shotgun, and her mask slipped down and Darlene could
Speaker 6: see her face. And that's when she started really fighting
Speaker 6: back and trying to get away, and did manage to
Speaker 6: break free and run And I think I think that
Speaker 6: when she ran that Barbara fired I think about two
Speaker 6: shots at a distance, and did maybe get her peppered
Speaker 6: with buckshot just a little bit in the back as
Speaker 6: she was running. But then Barbara started chasing her, and
Speaker 6: the doctor followed the log. He was excited because he
Speaker 6: already saw that the gun had come out and been used,
Speaker 6: and I believe he saw disaster come in his way
Speaker 6: if they were caught, and he knew that Darlene knew
Speaker 6: who they were. And I think whenever he caught up
Speaker 6: with the two of them and they were down at
Speaker 6: the pond, I think he did the final shooting because
Speaker 6: for one thing, he was all hyped up with adrenaline,
Speaker 6: and for another thing, I don't think he wanted to
Speaker 6: be identified, and he realized at some point that he
Speaker 6: was going to be in even worse trouble than he
Speaker 6: already was in if they went ahead and she got
Speaker 6: away and identified them. After it had gone as far
Speaker 6: as it had.
Speaker 5: Now you when we went back a little bit, that
Speaker 5: they left all kinds of evidence. And so the trail
Speaker 5: leads to these people quite easily. Give us a little
Speaker 5: bit on how quickly or how easily they were arrested
Speaker 5: or found out. They said it was a couple of witnesses.
Speaker 5: And then there are some other witnesses too that they
Speaker 5: speak to. So, but first tell us how the police
Speaker 5: finally arrest these people, how quickly that happens, and then
Speaker 5: we can talk about what Barbara Ann says to police.
Speaker 6: Well, it happened really quickly, all things considered, because of
Speaker 6: those broken glasses. When she got hit in the face
Speaker 6: with the butt of the gun, whether by her firing
Speaker 6: it or by the doctor hitting her with it to
Speaker 6: get her back in control, which I think is what
Speaker 6: happened at that point. She kept half the glasses some
Speaker 6: way and the other half fell down in the grass,
Speaker 6: and they were found, and the prescription was taken and
Speaker 6: read and traced back to Barbara from the place where
Speaker 6: she had gotten her prescription and over in Georgia Pearl vision.
Speaker 6: And then when they started checking on her and who
Speaker 6: she was, they found out that she was of Vernon's
Speaker 6: ex wife, and that rang a big bell, and she
Speaker 6: had gone to Texas to her mother's funeral. Her poor mother,
Speaker 6: by the way, had literally dropped dead when she had
Speaker 6: heard that Darlene had been murdered because of her fear
Speaker 6: that Barbara was involved some way. Wow, And so they
Speaker 6: went to Texas for her mother's funeral. And while they
Speaker 6: were out there, they talked to several you know, the
Speaker 6: family about different things that raised suspicion, Like one of
Speaker 6: them that was in law enforcement asked him about fingerprint
Speaker 6: technology and the rifling of the shotgun barrel that had
Speaker 6: been fired, and gunshot tracing an identification in several things.
Speaker 6: And and the investigators found out where Barbara was. They
Speaker 6: called and spoke to one of her brothers who told
Speaker 6: him that he thought that they might have been involved
Speaker 6: in the murder, and told them that they were fixing
Speaker 6: to come back to Atlanta, and when they were going
Speaker 6: to get back to the airport, what flight they'd been on,
Speaker 6: and they were waiting for them, and arrested them right
Speaker 6: off the airplane.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 6: It all stepped back to the glasses right.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 5: They were both arrested, but under arrest, and you've already
Speaker 5: spoken that he didn't want to say anything. Anyone make
Speaker 5: any statement without a lawyer. They warned her as per customary,
Speaker 5: they said, you don't have to talk to us, but
Speaker 5: Barbara and talked. So what did she first what did
Speaker 5: she first say to police when she was first arrested, Well.
Speaker 6: At first, she denied knowing anything about it, and then
Speaker 6: she said, well, well she knew what had happened, but
Speaker 6: she didn't have anything to do with it. And then
Speaker 6: she kept on admitting a little more as every few minutes,
Speaker 6: and then it ended up, well, yes I was there,
Speaker 6: but I didn't do anything. And by this time, you know,
Speaker 6: she had started breaking down and telling so many different
Speaker 6: versions and refused to wait to talk to a lawyer.
Speaker 6: She had called a lawyer before they landed in Atlanta
Speaker 6: because they suspected they might need one, and she wouldn't
Speaker 6: wait for him.
Speaker 5: She just she was a good lawyer too, Yeah, very
Speaker 5: good lawyer.
Speaker 6: And the deal was she was supposed to wait and
Speaker 6: not make any statements until he was present. But by
Speaker 6: the time she finally connected up with him, she had
Speaker 6: made three long, lengthy statements and would summon the investigators
Speaker 6: to come and talk to her more. She she wanted
Speaker 6: to talk, and she talked and talked.
Speaker 5: And talked, so she kept sinking further into the hole
Speaker 5: that she was creating for herself. But I found it
Speaker 5: fascinating that you've you've captured the actual dialogue from those
Speaker 5: meetings with police, and she does sound like a liar.
Speaker 5: She saw everything that's come out of her mouth, sounds
Speaker 5: convoluted and lies and rounding circles and avoiding certain things.
Speaker 5: But eventually she keeps talking like you say, and eventually
Speaker 5: some stuff comes out by virtue of just time. Isn't
Speaker 5: that correctly?
Speaker 6: Exactly exactly? And the most information that I got on
Speaker 6: the biggest interview that is pretty much verbatim in the book,
Speaker 6: I got that off a videotape, so I got to
Speaker 6: actually see her body language at the time she was
Speaker 6: doing these things, and hear her different the tones of
Speaker 6: her voice as she would make these different statements, and
Speaker 6: she was just repeating herself and rattling and bouncing off
Speaker 6: the walls and fidgeting in her chair. And I've never
Speaker 6: seen any more disorganized thing than that. And the poor
Speaker 6: gentleman that was talking to her ended up just pretty
Speaker 6: much sitting there and letting her just go. He didn't
Speaker 6: have to ask questions. She just pretty much cut loose
Speaker 6: and volunteered everything. And he was a very courtly, polite
Speaker 6: type of person, and he could not have been any
Speaker 6: nicer or you know, I guess you could use the
Speaker 6: term gentler with talking to her than he did. But
Speaker 6: he just literally didn't have to do anything. She volunteered
Speaker 6: enough information to just make a good attorney fall over
Speaker 6: with a seizure, and she just kept on volunteering it.
Speaker 6: The poor thing. I I can't help but feel a
Speaker 6: little bit sorry for her because of that, because she
Speaker 6: had absolutely no clue what she was doing to herself.
Speaker 5: Now, when Barbara Anne was incarcerated, also she with her
Speaker 5: pension for talking and wanting to talk. She also talked
Speaker 5: to one inmate in particular that ended up going to authorities. Tanya.
Speaker 5: I don't have her last name here, Regulado. That's it.
Speaker 5: Please tell us a little bit about this is another
Speaker 5: fascinating twist to this story.
Speaker 6: Well, Miss Tanya, as it turns out, has a record
Speaker 6: from here to Texas. I mean, she has had a long,
Speaker 6: lengthy record, and she got it in for Barbara when
Speaker 6: they were in jail together. She didn't like Barbara and
Speaker 6: they were pretty much arch enemies during the time that
Speaker 6: they were both up here in the Cherokee County jail together.
Speaker 6: And it's very doubtful to me that Barbara said the
Speaker 6: things that Tanya claimed she did. She may have said
Speaker 6: some of the things, but I believe that Tanya got
Speaker 6: in there and made some of it up just purely
Speaker 6: despite Barbara. She had nothing to gain. She wasn't offered
Speaker 6: any kind of deals because she'd already been sentenced at
Speaker 6: the time and was just waiting to be transferred. But
Speaker 6: I have had on good authority from several of the
Speaker 6: law enforcement officials that Tanya was just a highly unreliable
Speaker 6: source of information. But again, she was all ahead.
Speaker 5: Well, but the police wanted to use I mean the
Speaker 5: police and the district attorney wanted to use her. So
Speaker 5: there must have been some corroborating evidence to some of
Speaker 5: the things that she said she claimed, because there was
Speaker 5: three different conversations, and there was some things that were
Speaker 5: not so relevant. I would say about say about the
Speaker 5: videotape that apparently Barbara had said to her that doctor
Speaker 5: she should found a videotape of Vernon and her having sex. Well,
Speaker 5: who cares about that. But the thing that she said
Speaker 5: was the damaging thing was that Barbara had admitted to
Speaker 5: her that she had actually shot Darlene in the back
Speaker 5: of the head and in the back. So how valuable
Speaker 5: was that testimony? And you're already telling us that you
Speaker 5: didn't really believe it, But tell us why it was
Speaker 5: believed at least by the district attorney. And how was
Speaker 5: it taken at court at trial?
Speaker 6: Well, I think Tanya had enough information from Barbara and
Speaker 6: probably from hearing the other inmates talking about it, that
Speaker 6: she was able to take some of the things that
Speaker 6: Barbara said and maybe expand on them a good bit, okay,
Speaker 6: And there was enough truth in it to make it convinced.
Speaker 6: And it's all they had to use, really of that
Speaker 6: sort of testimony and other than what Barbara had said
Speaker 6: at such great length. And I think that they used
Speaker 6: it because there was so much information in there that
Speaker 6: was close to the truth. Some of the things that
Speaker 6: she said just didn't quite ring true to me. But
Speaker 6: I suppose it was just a situation of her being
Speaker 6: the only inmate that came forward with anything right that
Speaker 6: I saw in the files when I was going through things,
Speaker 6: that there was some information that I couldn't use because
Speaker 6: it wasn't it was hearsay. There was a third party
Speaker 6: that said that her experience in the jail with Barbara
Speaker 6: and Regulatto had been that Barbara that they hated each other.
Speaker 6: Glado had made the statement that she would say to
Speaker 6: it that Barbara got the death penalty, and so that
Speaker 6: was something that couldn't be used in court. Therefore I
Speaker 6: didn't include it in the book, but I'll let you
Speaker 6: and the listeners know about it, just so you'll know
Speaker 6: one of the reasons I doubted the woman's statements.
Speaker 5: Right, well, you do talk about and inmate, you know,
Speaker 5: saying that they did hate each other, you know, so
Speaker 5: that there was there there was some motive for someone lying,
Speaker 5: that's for sure. It never really has explained why they
Speaker 5: hated each other so much, but definitely Barbara was I
Speaker 5: guess some people wouldn't understand or be sympathetic to somebody
Speaker 5: that has certain conditions and psychiatric problems, and who knows
Speaker 5: the dynamics of personalities in the prison. Now at trial itself,
Speaker 5: did Barbara take the stand? And how did what was
Speaker 5: the trial based on you alluded to before that it
Speaker 5: came down to did she have the strength basically from
Speaker 5: the injuries to be able to use that shotgun? I
Speaker 5: ask you as well, he had significant injuries too, and
Speaker 5: then so not that long a year or two later
Speaker 5: after these injuries, was there any question about whether he
Speaker 5: had the strength to be able to do that? And
Speaker 5: how did that? How did how did they get to
Speaker 5: the to the decision one way or another that who
Speaker 5: shot the final shots, the ones that killed Darling and Roberts.
Speaker 6: Well, the decision was made to charge Barbara because they
Speaker 6: had everything in the world to charge her with, including
Speaker 6: her own, you know, more or less confession, right, and
Speaker 6: she left them with no choice other than to charge
Speaker 6: her with capital murder. And she refused to take any
Speaker 6: sort of play bargain. She was offered deils literally right
Speaker 6: up to the last minute, and refused them. All of
Speaker 6: her attorney begging her to and to take the plea
Speaker 6: and the DA's office practically begged her to take it
Speaker 6: to They didn't want her to get the death penalty,
Speaker 6: not really, because I don't think they believed that she
Speaker 6: was as responsible as the jury evidently came to fill.
Speaker 6: But they didn't have any choice in the matter. She
Speaker 6: left them with absolutely no choice, and the judge had
Speaker 6: no choice in sentence in because with the capital murder
Speaker 6: conviction by the jury, the only two sentence and options
Speaker 6: were either a death penalty or life without parole.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 6: And I don't know Barbara just you know, she dug
Speaker 6: herself into that position and then refused to help herself
Speaker 6: at all.
Speaker 5: Why did she decline the flea bargain? What was her
Speaker 5: rustionale for that?
Speaker 6: Well? Never really could figure that one out. Her attorney
Speaker 6: told me here just a few days ago, we were
Speaker 6: talking about that and he said, you know, on the
Speaker 6: last day, right before we went into the courtroom, they
Speaker 6: came up and made one last offer, and he said,
Speaker 6: I thought she was going to take it, and then
Speaker 6: he said this, It's like an expression came over her face,
Speaker 6: just like a veil fell down or something, and she said, no, wow,
Speaker 6: And I can't understand it. That's one of those things
Speaker 6: that we're never going to really know. But I have
Speaker 6: a strong suspicion that the doctor had made some promises
Speaker 6: to her that if she didn't talk and didn't incriminate him,
Speaker 6: that he would take care of her in some way,
Speaker 6: and that didn't happen. Whatever he promised her, he did
Speaker 6: not come through with.
Speaker 5: Now he like you say, he did just a few
Speaker 5: years in prison, she went through her appeal processes. Did
Speaker 5: she have any successful there appeals at all, it'd be
Speaker 5: all done with now.
Speaker 6: She has not yet, but she's got still quite a
Speaker 6: ways to go. And the process, the appeal process here
Speaker 6: in Alabama's is fairly lengthy and it can take a
Speaker 6: long time and a lot of various court appearances. Now,
Speaker 6: I think she's been up here either two or three
Speaker 6: times for short court appearances, but so far she's not
Speaker 6: had any luck. But I feel like she might possibly
Speaker 6: be able to at some point.
Speaker 5: But really, all she's really looking as a reduction of
Speaker 5: the death penalty to life without parole.
Speaker 6: Well, she got that the judge overrode the jurish recommendation
Speaker 6: of the dancing and sinister to the life without parole.
Speaker 6: But I think the only thing she could hope to
Speaker 6: gain would be the possibility of parole way down the
Speaker 6: line somewhere. It would be years, years in the offing.
Speaker 6: Even if she won the appeal. Now, if she wanted
Speaker 6: a new trial, that things might be very different, and
Speaker 6: she is working on that, but that's not made any
Speaker 6: progress up until this point, and her appeals have not
Speaker 6: worked up until this point. But I have a feeling
Speaker 6: that they may in the future. It may be many
Speaker 6: years in coming, but I think eventually something will shake
Speaker 6: loose on this. She may just finally decide to talk
Speaker 6: and tell whatever it is that she has been quiet
Speaker 6: about all this time.
Speaker 5: Right. Well, it's you know, it's an amazing story that
Speaker 5: you've captured in great, great detail and very exciting read
Speaker 5: to take us through this whole journey basically from this
Speaker 5: crazy behavior and the fascinating trial. Usually trials are a
Speaker 5: foregone conclusion, especially death fun only ones, but this one
Speaker 5: had enough you really didn't know what was going to happen. Actually,
Speaker 5: So that's you know, it's a great book, and I
Speaker 5: want to thank you for coming on the program and
Speaker 5: talking about it today.
Speaker 6: Well, I certainly do appreciate it. I could I could
Speaker 6: go on for a long time about this one and
Speaker 6: not cover all the points that came up.
Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely, Yes, what are you working on right now?
Speaker 5: You have a new book in the works.
Speaker 6: You were talking a well, well, I'm looking at a
Speaker 6: couple of things. We had one case where a gentleman
Speaker 6: clubbed his girlfriend with a steel pipe and put her
Speaker 6: in the truck of the car and drove her around
Speaker 6: for several hours and then took her out and stabbed
Speaker 6: her about one hundred and fifty times. Wow, I'm looking
Speaker 6: at that one, of course, see he has pled guilty,
Speaker 6: But the story in that one is not so much
Speaker 6: the murder as the officer that was the first one
Speaker 6: to respond when the killer's mother called nine to one one.
Speaker 6: This young guy, real, really nice young kid that I've
Speaker 6: known for years since he was a young pup. It
Speaker 6: was his fifth day on the job and he was
Speaker 6: the first officer on the scene of the first murders
Speaker 6: in the county.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I always being involved in something as well, I
Speaker 5: always wonder most about the officer that has to see.
Speaker 5: You know, there's grizzly scenes and then there's even more
Speaker 5: spectacular spectacles presented. But you know, one hundred and fifty
Speaker 5: stab wounds is and it's pretty good. Yeah, Like you say,
Speaker 5: five days in, it's like, wow, welcome to Welcome to
Speaker 5: the toughest job in the world for sure.
Speaker 6: Yeah. And this is a This is a really When
Speaker 6: he was a young teenager, he was a very innocent,
Speaker 6: white eyed, just most hoplesome kid in the world. And
Speaker 6: I know he'd never been exposed to anything like that before.
Speaker 6: And I'm anxious to talk to him and see just
Speaker 6: exactly how that affected him. And the other case that
Speaker 6: I'm looking at is a young lady that poisoned her
Speaker 6: stepfather with propofol, which was used in my Jackson's okay,
Speaker 6: and she has been indicted by the grand jury for
Speaker 6: capital murder, so that's going to be a big trial.
Speaker 6: So I'll be attending that one.
Speaker 5: Sure sounds good. Don't think you get your hands full,
Speaker 5: for sure. A couple of good, great books and the
Speaker 5: works keep it for a while. Absolutely well, killers keep
Speaker 5: you busy, right, they'll do it. Yeah, yeah, Well. I
Speaker 5: want to thank you very much Sheila for coming on
Speaker 5: the program with your great book Blush, Blood Ambush, Lovers, Liars, Killers,
Speaker 5: great stuff. Thank you very much for appearing on the program.
Speaker 5: And I wish you the best of luck with his book.
Speaker 5: But I'm sure it's going to sell like hotcakes.
Speaker 6: So oh, thank you so much. You have a good evening, okay,
Speaker 6: and same to you and all the listeners.
Speaker 5: Thank you, good night, good night. Even listening to the
Speaker 5: program True Murder, the most shocking killers in true crime
Speaker 5: history and the authors that are written about them, with
Speaker 5: my special guest Shila Johnson and the book Blood Ambush,
Speaker 5: have yourself a good evening. This is Dan Zupsky. Good Night,