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True Murder with 33 00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:47.079 your host, journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 34 00:01:57.040 --> 00:01:59.680 Good evening, This is your host for the program True Murder, 35 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:03.120 The most shocking killers in true crime history and the 36 00:02:03.159 --> 00:02:05.239 authors that have written about them, with your host Dan 37 00:02:05.319 --> 00:02:10.319 Sepansky Ford. For Darlene Roberts, a quiet drive home from 38 00:02:10.319 --> 00:02:12.039 work turned out to be the end of the road 39 00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:15.639 when a stranded motorist flagged her down. As soon as 40 00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:18.800 she stopped, Darling was forcibly dragged from her car and 41 00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:22.360 viciously thrown to the ground, bound with cords and tightly gagged. 42 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:25.439 A second attacker stepped into the scene, a woman in 43 00:02:25.479 --> 00:02:28.039 a hood and a mask. In the ensuing struggle, the 44 00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:31.319 woman's mouth slipped off, revealing the face of Darling's husband, 45 00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:36.960 Darling's Husband's ex wife, Barbara Ann Roberts. Darling broke away 46 00:02:36.960 --> 00:02:41.520 from her broke away, running for her life. The couple 47 00:02:41.560 --> 00:02:44.039 pursued her across the field until they found her hiding 48 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:47.960 in the grass, a shotgun was aimed in fired point blank. Later, 49 00:02:48.039 --> 00:02:50.960 Darling was found floating in a pond. Who fired the 50 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:54.680 fatal shot the bitter ex wife or her lover, an 51 00:02:54.680 --> 00:02:59.719 accompliced millionaire neurosurgeon, doctor Robert Schiss, the third only one 52 00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:03.919 of them be convicted in this disturbing, twisted tale of lovers, cheaters, 53 00:03:03.919 --> 00:03:07.919 and killers in a small Alivama town. The book is 54 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:12.319 Blood Ambush with my special guest Sheila Johnson. Thank you 55 00:03:12.439 --> 00:03:15.280 very much for Greening's interview and welcome back to the program. 56 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:21.159 Sheila Johnson very much, well, thank you. Now, first off, 57 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:24.680 how did you come to be involved in writing a 58 00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:28.520 book about this murder case in particular? And why did 59 00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:30.800 you want to write about this case in particular? 60 00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:35.639 Well, the case happened in the county where I live, 61 00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:39.400 and at the time I was looking at another book 62 00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:43.039 and I was pretty much settled doing that one. But 63 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:45.680 then this thing started to unfold and it just kept 64 00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:51.199 getting more and more twisted and intertwined, and so many 65 00:03:51.240 --> 00:03:54.439 things didn't add up, and it just it got to 66 00:03:54.520 --> 00:03:57.120 be in a situation where I had to write this book, 67 00:03:58.400 --> 00:03:59.759 you know, I had to. 68 00:04:01.960 --> 00:04:04.639 Now, first off, who was Darlene Roberts. So if you 69 00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:07.199 give us a little bit about her character and we're 70 00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:11.080 and also the setting of this is in Cherokee County, Alabama, 71 00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:13.000 So give us a little bit of a sort of 72 00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:15.840 a geographical idea of where this is in relation to 73 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:22.040 say other nearby bigger cities and neighboring states and Alabama itself. 74 00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:26.480 Well, we're about the same distance here in Cherokee County 75 00:04:27.079 --> 00:04:30.560 from Atlanta as we are from Birmingham, or as we 76 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:34.199 are from Chattanooga, Tennessee. We're sort of in a triangle here. 77 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:39.120 And this is a very rural area, but strangely enough, 78 00:04:39.160 --> 00:04:42.079 it's also a resort area because there's a there's a 79 00:04:42.199 --> 00:04:48.720 huge lake here, and there's all mannered recreation and boating, fishing, camping, 80 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:53.879 water sports. There's you know, very big in this part 81 00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:57.079 of the Southeast. So it makes for a sort of 82 00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:03.360 a strange mix having some old time farm communities and 83 00:05:03.560 --> 00:05:06.560 then this resort that's come up since the TBA built 84 00:05:06.560 --> 00:05:13.519 a damn and created this huge lake, and it's there 85 00:05:13.560 --> 00:05:16.839 are a lot of what we could call unsolved mysteries 86 00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:19.639 in this area that I was speaking to someone today 87 00:05:19.639 --> 00:05:22.480 about how many other cases there are here that have 88 00:05:22.600 --> 00:05:26.639 just had been equally bizarre but have never been solved, 89 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:29.560 so that may be all manner of books lurking around 90 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:35.360 here in the future. And Darlene you wanted to know 91 00:05:35.399 --> 00:05:41.279 about Darlene Ross, Okay, Darlene was extremely well liked. She 92 00:05:41.439 --> 00:05:45.319 was a really attractive lady. And she worked at a 93 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:49.199 big paper mill over in Rome, Georgia, which is just 94 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:52.439 across the county line in the state line here from 95 00:05:52.439 --> 00:05:56.480 this county. And while she was working there, she met 96 00:05:56.519 --> 00:06:01.000 this really handsome fellow that you could only refer to 97 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:04.120 as a lady's man. His name was Vernon Roberts, and 98 00:06:04.160 --> 00:06:07.920 he was in the process of divorcing his wife. They 99 00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:11.040 had been talking back and forth about separating and divorcing 100 00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:15.000 for some time, and Darlene fell hard for this guy, 101 00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:18.879 and they were married after Vernon got his divorce from 102 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:26.639 Barbara Anne Roberts, his ex wife, and they were evidently 103 00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:31.560 quite happy. And Darlene was on her way home from 104 00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:35.279 work one night and next thing, you know, like you 105 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:38.560 were saying, she was pulled over, dragged out of the car, 106 00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:41.199 and she had no clue why what was going on 107 00:06:41.319 --> 00:06:47.040 until she recognized Barbara and poor Darlene, you know, a 108 00:06:47.079 --> 00:06:48.920 lot of people were it fought here, but she was 109 00:06:48.959 --> 00:06:51.639 certainly not one of them. She was, you know, totally 110 00:06:51.639 --> 00:06:53.879 innocent victim. 111 00:06:54.079 --> 00:06:57.279 Well, let's go back a little bit here to Barbara 112 00:06:57.319 --> 00:07:01.439 and Roberts. The obviously we talked to her and she's 113 00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:05.680 the perpetrator here, but let's talk about Barbara and Roberts 114 00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:09.040 and the kind of relationship she had with Vernon Roberts 115 00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:13.319 before Darlene came into the picture. What was that situation, like, 116 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:17.160 how did Barbara and Roberts meet Vernon? Tell us a 117 00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:19.639 little bit about that and the split tell us give 118 00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:21.079 us a little bit of that backgrap. 119 00:07:21.959 --> 00:07:24.680 Well, okay, Barbara and Vernon met in Texas, which is 120 00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:28.800 where they were both from originally, and Vernon had just 121 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:34.560 divorced his first wife and he was stuck without a 122 00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:37.759 vehicle or place to live, no money, couldn't pay his 123 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:41.680 child support. And Barbara kind of stepped in and befriended him, 124 00:07:41.720 --> 00:07:45.079 and she fell hard for him, just like evidently so 125 00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:49.319 many others have. And then they were married, and they 126 00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:52.439 were married for quite a few years, and I think 127 00:07:52.519 --> 00:07:56.360 things were okay at first, and then they started sort 128 00:07:56.399 --> 00:08:00.279 of on a downhill slide when Barbara started becoming more 129 00:08:00.279 --> 00:08:04.519 depressed and neurotic than you know, she had ever been previously. 130 00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:09.040 She had been having trouble since her young adulthood was depression, 131 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:12.600 and it is it got worse. The situation with Vernon 132 00:08:12.680 --> 00:08:15.680 got worse, and when he got transferred over to the 133 00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:20.560 Rome Georgia plant where he was working, when he met Darlene, 134 00:08:21.480 --> 00:08:25.240 then from that point on they went downhill fast. Barbara's 135 00:08:25.319 --> 00:08:32.039 middle condition deteriorated quite a bit, and Vernon was increasingly dissatisfied. 136 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.519 And I think the majority of it hinged on her 137 00:08:37.559 --> 00:08:42.519 depression worsening like it did, and she sought quite a 138 00:08:42.519 --> 00:08:43.960 bit of help for it at the time. 139 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:49.000 So was there, like it happens in a lot of times, 140 00:08:49.840 --> 00:08:54.480 was there an obvious overlap where his wife was depressed 141 00:08:54.519 --> 00:08:58.519 and created tension in the relationship and then his transfer 142 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:03.759 to Rome Georgia and meeting Darlene, there was there a 143 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:08.000 big overlap of it, didn't just you know, was there 144 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:09.960 an overlap in a couple of years where there was 145 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:15.240 a relationship developing with Darlene or his disatisfaction with Barbara, 146 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:19.279 and tell us about that overlap that usually happens in relationships, 147 00:09:19.279 --> 00:09:19.600 And if. 148 00:09:19.480 --> 00:09:22.120 There was one thing I think there was some overlap 149 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:26.000 here in this one, not as much as there might 150 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:30.279 possibly have been. But I believe that he did begin 151 00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:37.799 seeing Darlene a little prematurely, she'll we say, and I 152 00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:41.840 think that contributed to Barbara's worse than meddle condition, also 153 00:09:42.039 --> 00:09:46.120 because she could sense something coming on. But I don't 154 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:49.120 think there was a as nearly as large an overlap 155 00:09:49.159 --> 00:09:50.960 as there is in many cases like that. 156 00:09:52.519 --> 00:09:56.879 Now you talked about that she was diagnosed with clinical depression, 157 00:09:57.480 --> 00:10:03.000 was that the only psychiatric psychological evaluation that she had 158 00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:05.720 in designation that she had was just depression. You said 159 00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:08.799 that happened in her early years, but during her relationship 160 00:10:08.840 --> 00:10:13.360 with Vernon. She's an adult, so it was not the 161 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:15.039 only diagnosis that she did have. 162 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:19.639 Officially, well, she had quite a few different problems. I 163 00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:25.200 think they all stem from the depression primarily. But she 164 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:29.879 for some reason her self esteem was not as high 165 00:10:29.879 --> 00:10:33.519 as it should have been, and I think that was 166 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:35.519 rooted in a lot of the depression, and it was 167 00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:38.720 the cause of a lot of it. And she was 168 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:42.320 lonely when she moved here. She was away from her 169 00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:44.399 family and from other people that she knew, and she 170 00:10:44.399 --> 00:10:48.039 didn't really have any friends, and that contributed to things. 171 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:53.639 And by the time she started checking herself into clinics 172 00:10:53.679 --> 00:11:01.399 and psychiatric facilities, what she did, many times, her diagnosis 173 00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:03.600 would just jump all over the place, depending on what 174 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:05.919 page of the book she was on that day. You know, 175 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:12.480 she sometimes would present with just almost suicidal depression, and 176 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:16.159 other times Vernon would report to him that he was 177 00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:19.120 afraid for his safety and things of that nature. Of course, 178 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:22.840 I think part of that was just to perhaps cause 179 00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:27.000 her more problems than she was already having. And it 180 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:32.039 was real varying situation from one incident to the next. 181 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:37.519 On one occasion, she checked herself in to the clinic 182 00:11:37.639 --> 00:11:42.519 because Vernon had insisted that she have her real elderly 183 00:11:42.600 --> 00:11:45.919 dog put down, and he said that he was going 184 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:48.799 on a business trip and it better be gone by 185 00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:51.919 the time he got home. And she was so upset 186 00:11:51.960 --> 00:11:56.600 by that that her doctor went with her to the 187 00:11:56.879 --> 00:12:00.559 vets office to have the dog put to sleep, and 188 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:04.720 then went with her to check herself in. So it 189 00:12:04.759 --> 00:12:07.320 was it was a sad situation. I think she was 190 00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:13.039 manipulated and and probably things were a lot worse for 191 00:12:13.159 --> 00:12:14.519 than they would have been otherwise. 192 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:20.039 What was her early life like growing up? Uh uh? 193 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:22.720 In your research, W, what were her parents like we did? 194 00:12:22.720 --> 00:12:22.799 Did? 195 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:25.960 Did she lead a a somewhat normal life? W tell 196 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:27.039 us a little bit about that life. 197 00:12:27.080 --> 00:12:29.480 She lived a very normal life. She was the middle 198 00:12:29.559 --> 00:12:33.879 child of I think about seven and they had a 199 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:40.519 very good, solid upbringing, good parents. The parents bagged education 200 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:43.879 and just went to great links to make sure that 201 00:12:44.600 --> 00:12:48.000 all their children did the best they possibly could. They 202 00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:51.480 were a very religious family, and she did lots of 203 00:12:51.559 --> 00:12:54.720 things growing up with their her brothers and sisters, and 204 00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:58.440 they were fairly close. And she couldn't have had a 205 00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:03.919 more normal ideal utbring no trauma that I ever could 206 00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:08.080 find anywhere, but you know, nothing of that sort that 207 00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:11.840 normally causes things of this sort to get worse. But 208 00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:15.879 I don't think she could have really had a nicer family. 209 00:13:17.120 --> 00:13:19.759 They're taking this really hard, you know, by the way. 210 00:13:19.799 --> 00:13:22.080 The whole thing is really disturbing to them. 211 00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:25.519 Sure, Now, when did she get the I don't want 212 00:13:25.519 --> 00:13:28.320 to jump ahead, but just just so I kind of 213 00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:31.600 know here and our audience knows, is when did she 214 00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:39.600 get the more serious bipolar designation by the doctors, which 215 00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:43.559 was previously known as schizophrenic. So when did she when 216 00:13:43.639 --> 00:13:47.240 was she diagnosed with this bipolar disease. 217 00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:51.080 That started happening. Well, like I was telling you, around 218 00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:54.440 the time that she started checking herself into the clinics 219 00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:58.639 while she and Vernon were talking about divorce or separation. 220 00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:03.399 She began kind of creeping over in that direction at 221 00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:08.720 that time, and she began to get worse as time passed. 222 00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:13.879 She would sort of stalk Darlene, and then when she 223 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:17.159 and Vernon started dating, she'd go sneaking up to the 224 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:20.559 house disguised in the dark and spy on them. And 225 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:23.919 I think she put a smoke bomb in the furnace 226 00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:28.120 vand at Darlene's apartment on one occasion, and just things 227 00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:31.519 of that nature. She started doing all these things too. 228 00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:35.000 I don't know if she was trying to irritate them 229 00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:38.080 or if she just was trying to feed some need 230 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:40.159 that she had to find out what they were up to. 231 00:14:42.279 --> 00:14:45.679 In your research, did you find that she wanted Vernon 232 00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:47.399 back in her life or she wanted to be back 233 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:51.080 in Vernon's life? And how did she view Darlene in 234 00:14:51.159 --> 00:14:55.759 terms of being the source of the problem in the 235 00:14:55.759 --> 00:15:00.879 first place, did she who did she direct her anger towards? 236 00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:04.360 More so Vernon or Darlene. 237 00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:10.919 Well, I think she wanted Vernon back. She never has 238 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:15.320 just directly come out and told me so, because of 239 00:15:15.799 --> 00:15:18.279 some of the things he did, you know, following the murder. 240 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:22.120 But I think before that incident she would have taken 241 00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:25.080 him back in a heartbeat. However, by that time, she 242 00:15:25.159 --> 00:15:29.440 already had a very wealthy, well to do boyfriend and 243 00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:33.000 had had for a while in the doctor. And I 244 00:15:33.799 --> 00:15:37.639 don't think she blamed Darlene for their breakup because it 245 00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:42.080 started so much, you know, it was previous to Darlene 246 00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:45.879 coming on the scene, and I don't think she blamed 247 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:51.039 her for that, but she was somewhat jealous, and I 248 00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:55.279 think there was a lot of rivalry and then just 249 00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:58.360 finally there was some outright anger when all these pranks 250 00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:01.240 started taking place on her art and Darlene's both. 251 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:07.200 Well, you mentioned you've alluded about to the doctor, doctor Robert, 252 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:09.879 and am I pronouncing this wrong? Let me know it's 253 00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:10.639 it's it's Schiss. 254 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:16.679 Well, actually it's She's, She's, She's. He was very adamant 255 00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:19.159 when he was in jail up here with all the 256 00:16:19.240 --> 00:16:21.879 law enforcement people about how his name was supposed to 257 00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:25.679 be pronounced, and he would correct everybody in a heartbeat, 258 00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:31.559 because evidently schiss in one of the Germanic languages is 259 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:35.000 I think it's a word for human excrement. 260 00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:39.879 Okay, Round two, Name something that's not boring. 261 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:44.320 Laundry, book club, computer solitaire. 262 00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:51.279 Huh oh, sorry, we were looking for Chumbuck Casino to chumba. 263 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:53.960 That's right, Chumbuck Casino dot com as over one hundred 264 00:16:54.039 --> 00:16:56.480 casino style games joined today and the play for free 265 00:16:56.519 --> 00:17:05.680 for your chance to redeem some serious prizes dot com. 266 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:10.039 Okay, we always wanted it pronounced she and made a 267 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:11.119 great point of it. 268 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:15.279 Yeah, I would imagine. Yeah, okay, So now who is 269 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:19.160 who is this doctor Robert Sheh and what was their 270 00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:22.920 relationship characterized by? And I just wanted to know too 271 00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:27.079 that to let the audience know when we're describing these people, 272 00:17:27.559 --> 00:17:30.920 tell us really what the you know, if there's an 273 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:35.039 age difference between this doctor Robert Sheesh and Barbara Ann 274 00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:38.839 and then Darlene and then Vernon, and then what is 275 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:41.359 the dynamic in terms of looks? I think all people 276 00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:44.000 are always interested in that. What does Darlene look like? 277 00:17:44.119 --> 00:17:46.920 What's the age difference between her and Barbara? What does 278 00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:49.519 Barbara look like? And what's the age difference between her 279 00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:52.559 and doctor Robert Sheesh and give us a little bit 280 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:53.160 of that picture. 281 00:17:53.559 --> 00:17:58.000 Okay, Darlene is very attractive person. She was a really 282 00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:04.759 attractive lady. She had, you know, nice small build, and 283 00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:10.720 she was blond and Vernon was brown eyed, handsome man, 284 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:15.000 you know, tall, dark and handsome. They were very attractive couple. 285 00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:20.119 And the age difference there, Darlene was a little bit 286 00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:24.559 younger than Vernon. Now Barbara was about the same age 287 00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:29.000 as Vernon, and Barbara is a Barbara is literally a chameleon. 288 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:33.240 There are pictures in the book that will show that 289 00:18:33.319 --> 00:18:36.799 pretty well. The cover shot is one of her. It 290 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:40.559 was her mugshot when she was arrested. But and she 291 00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:46.160 looked pretty plain and haggard and worn in that and 292 00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:49.359 a little bit on the stocky side when she was arrested. 293 00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:54.799 But I have had passport photos over and some just 294 00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:59.279 really glamour shot pictures over from previous years, and she 295 00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:03.160 can just look astounding when you know, certain times her 296 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:06.279 family has told me that they never knew when she'd 297 00:19:06.319 --> 00:19:08.240 come home to visit what she was going to look 298 00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:11.559 like when she got there, because she would change, you know, 299 00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:14.279 so much from one time to the next. The last 300 00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:16.599 time I saw her in person, she was thin and 301 00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:21.240 frail and looked like she was having some hair loss 302 00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:24.880 or her hair was getting brittle, which, by the way, 303 00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:27.160 I've come to notice happens a lot of the time 304 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:30.599 when people are incarcerated, both men and women. I've had 305 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:33.279 that happen to two of my people in my books 306 00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:38.200 so far. And the doctor is maybe a couple of 307 00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:42.960 years older than Barbara, but not much. And he's tall, 308 00:19:43.640 --> 00:19:48.680 big built, her curly gray hair, and he's a brilliant 309 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:50.240 man and it shows on his face. 310 00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:56.640 Okay, Now, what where did they Where did Barbara add 311 00:19:56.759 --> 00:20:00.799 and the good doctor meet under what's circle status? And 312 00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:03.079 then how did they proceed from there? 313 00:20:05.079 --> 00:20:08.799 Well? After the divorce, Barbara was working in some of 314 00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:14.319 the hospitals and clinics. She was trained radiologist, and she 315 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:18.960 did mimography and several other things. She's a brilliant person too, 316 00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:21.640 as far as that goes. And she had been well educated, 317 00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:24.279 and she was working in some of the hospitals and 318 00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:29.480 clinics where the doctor also worked. And they met on 319 00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:33.079 the internet, and then they got together after they met 320 00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:36.880 a very short time. I think it was a place 321 00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:39.960 called kiss dot com where they struck up an acquaintance 322 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:46.799 and then after they met, they started getting together and 323 00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:53.400 Barbara I did had they had a serious automobile accident 324 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:57.240 after they had been together a short time, and that 325 00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:01.559 changed the dynamic of everything for both of them because 326 00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:05.559 prior to that, the doctor had been a practicing neurosurgeon 327 00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:09.160 who was one of the best anywhere, who was regarded 328 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:11.559 as one of the top men in the country really, 329 00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:15.359 and once they had this automobile accident, he could not 330 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:20.079 practice medicine anymore except just on a consulting basis, because 331 00:21:20.079 --> 00:21:22.559 he had tremors, and you don't want a guy with 332 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:28.240 tremors operating, you know, on your brain. And Barbara also 333 00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:33.000 suffered enough injuries that she qualified for disability from that point. 334 00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:38.640 She was injured and could not use her arms as 335 00:21:38.680 --> 00:21:41.759 well that she had nerve damage in her arms, which 336 00:21:42.559 --> 00:21:46.319 brings the whole situation around to could she or could 337 00:21:46.359 --> 00:21:50.519 she not hold up a shotgun and fire it. That's 338 00:21:50.519 --> 00:21:54.079 one of the key points in the whole case right there, 339 00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:57.720 right And I personally don't believe that she did it. 340 00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:01.880 I have never believed she was guilty of firing those 341 00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:05.599 three fatal point blank shots, and I don't think I 342 00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:06.640 ever will believe it. 343 00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:11.599 Okay, let's just go back just a bit here, because 344 00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:14.920 you see, you you talk about extensively in the book 345 00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:18.440 about really the effects the trauma on both of them. 346 00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:23.839 Uh Am, I am I correct in thinking that Barbara 347 00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:27.640 Ann also was traumatized by the injury itself as well 348 00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:33.000 by the numerous injuries, and then her conditions, uh psychologically 349 00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:39.640 were greatly exasperated, as acerbated, I should say. And so 350 00:22:39.759 --> 00:22:43.160 give us the damage that that seemed to be psychological 351 00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:47.720 after this, and and also what happened psychologically to the 352 00:22:47.799 --> 00:22:51.119 doctor because he now couldn't he couldn't be the surgeon 353 00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:53.880 that he was, and he had these other injuries. So 354 00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:55.799 tell us a little bit about that follow up to 355 00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:58.799 that car crash. 356 00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:03.599 Well, the doctor was devastated because he was no longer 357 00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:06.119 able to practice, and I think that had an extremely 358 00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:10.440 depressing effect on him. And I think he had some 359 00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:16.839 anger problems already, which that just naturally made that much worse. 360 00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:21.759 And both of them I think got a little too 361 00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:26.000 free with their pain prescriptions. And he of course could 362 00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:28.559 write prescriptions for her, and wrote quite a few for 363 00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:32.960 her for all manner of different things. And she was 364 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:37.000 depressed because she couldn't work anymore. And they were both 365 00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:39.559 in a lot of pain for several months because of 366 00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:43.759 the nerve damage. Barbara had some neck problems, the doctor 367 00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:49.799 had I think a broken eye socket, and they both 368 00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:54.960 had leg damage and Barbara had eternal injuries. It was 369 00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:59.039 a long term recovery from that accident, and in that 370 00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:05.000 time they both pretty much lost everything that they enjoyed doing, 371 00:24:05.319 --> 00:24:07.400 and they were left with not a whole lot to 372 00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:11.680 do but take pills and think the doctor drank quite 373 00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:18.319 a bit too, and that made both of their emotional 374 00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:22.200 conditions a lot worse I think than they would have 375 00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:25.400 been had the accident not happened. The murder probably would 376 00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:26.519 never have happened either. 377 00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:34.319 Right now, where does this two thousand and four memorial 378 00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:38.039 do weekend? This bizarre incident with police. Tell us a 379 00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:39.920 little bit about that and where that fits into this. 380 00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:45.880 Well, they were on their way, I think they were 381 00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:50.319 headed back home from a trip to Atlanta, and they 382 00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:53.319 were stopped on the highway, and I think they were 383 00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:58.079 stopped to change drivers. They never would say exactly why 384 00:24:58.119 --> 00:25:03.759 they stopped, but an off Deedy Highway patrolman drove by 385 00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:08.599 and saw the doctor grabbing Barbara by the like the 386 00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:12.400 back waistband of the pants and shake it her, and 387 00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:14.920 he thought something might be going on, so he stopped 388 00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:20.400 to check them out, and they were both drinking, they 389 00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:25.400 were both taking pills, and they both just went wild. 390 00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:29.440 Barbara was all flipped out, and the doctor got furious 391 00:25:29.480 --> 00:25:34.119 and started screaming and threatening the patrolman and demanding to 392 00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:37.720 see his badge number and demanding that he called the police. 393 00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:39.400 And he tried to explain to him that he was 394 00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:42.319 a police and the doctor was having none of that, 395 00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:48.039 and they had to physically restrain both of them, separate them, 396 00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:54.480 and the doctor kept trying to cause problems, and it 397 00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:57.519 just it turned into a really big situation where they 398 00:25:57.599 --> 00:25:59.599 both got arrested and both went to jail. 399 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:06.839 And then how long after that do we have that 400 00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:10.079 faithful day? And I want you to describe an outline, 401 00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:14.000