WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.520 Golf Smarter number three hundred and seventy five, published on 2 00:00:03.600 --> 00:00:08.000 March nineteen, twenty thirteen, and on today's score Zone short 3 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:11.759 game Academy, The Wedge Guy addresses a listener's question about 4 00:00:11.800 --> 00:00:15.759 adjusting the lie angle of your wedges just like the pros. 5 00:00:15.960 --> 00:00:21.000 Welcome to Golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain 6 00:00:21.079 --> 00:00:24.640 insight and advice from the best instructors. Featured on the 7 00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:30.679 Golf Smarter podcast Great Golf Instruction Never gets Old. Our 8 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:35.560 interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations 9 00:00:35.719 --> 00:00:39.280 like this that are no longer available in any podcast app. 10 00:00:39.640 --> 00:00:41.920 I love the image that you just painted of filling 11 00:00:41.960 --> 00:00:45.719 the cup with water, and when it overflows, what direction 12 00:00:45.880 --> 00:00:48.200 is it going to flow? Yeah, that's really helpful, But 13 00:00:48.240 --> 00:00:50.240 it's going to be away from the cup. 14 00:00:50.479 --> 00:00:52.159 Going to be down the paull line. So there's no 15 00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:55.640 necessarily any guarantee that the direction water would flow below 16 00:00:55.679 --> 00:00:57.640 the hole is the same direction that water would flow 17 00:00:57.640 --> 00:01:00.159 into the hole. That's the hardest one to get right, yus. 18 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:02.600 The green is perfectly flat and tilted, which again is 19 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:05.120 not the real world. That's the only time the direction 20 00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:07.319 flowing in would be the same as the direction flowing out. 21 00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:11.840 Because the whole isn't necessarily placed on a flat surface, 22 00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:15.319 the direction in could be slightly offset from the direction out. 23 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:18.000 That's much more common than not. So that's why it 24 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:19.920 has some limitations. Is it only gives us the fall 25 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:23.040 line directly below the hole. It doesn't necessarily represent the 26 00:01:23.079 --> 00:01:25.079 fall line above the hole. We can make a decent 27 00:01:25.200 --> 00:01:28.120 estimation based on that, but won't necessarily be as accurate 28 00:01:28.159 --> 00:01:29.120 as we would prefer. 29 00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:37.319 That same point. Putt it from the instructor's perspective with 30 00:01:37.560 --> 00:01:38.280 John Braham. 31 00:01:38.599 --> 00:01:43.840 This is Golf Smarter, sharing tips and insights from golfers 32 00:01:43.879 --> 00:01:47.400 and golf professionals to help blower your score. It's worked 33 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:49.120 for your host, Fred Green. 34 00:01:49.560 --> 00:01:51.560 Welcome to the Golf Smarter Podcast. John. 35 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:55.239 Hello, Fred, how you been very good? Thanks? 36 00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:56.680 How the lesson's coming? 37 00:01:58.560 --> 00:01:58.680 Well? 38 00:01:58.680 --> 00:02:00.840 If I don't usually do too much in the winter time, 39 00:02:01.120 --> 00:02:04.719 most of my lesson businesses through travel, so I'll travel 40 00:02:05.560 --> 00:02:09.599 between two and four weekends a month, just especially springtime 41 00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:10.840 is starting to pick up quite a bit now. 42 00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:15.280 Yeah, And to just clarify for the audience, John is 43 00:02:15.319 --> 00:02:18.879 not speaking with me and sword fighting at the same time. 44 00:02:19.319 --> 00:02:21.520 His dog is actually we talked about this. His dog 45 00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:27.719 is walking around the room, is with you know, with 46 00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:32.360 his nails on the tile. So John. A few episodes back, 47 00:02:32.439 --> 00:02:36.199 we talked to Mark Sweeney about the aime Point golfing 48 00:02:36.280 --> 00:02:41.560 system putting system that he developed, and it was to me, 49 00:02:41.599 --> 00:02:43.960 it's a fascinating story of a guy with an idea 50 00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:46.879 and how he developed it and turned it into something 51 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:49.719 very useful and brought it on to teachers all over 52 00:02:49.719 --> 00:02:55.280 the world. And you have embraced Aimepoint. 53 00:02:56.280 --> 00:02:57.080 Certainly. Yeah. 54 00:02:57.520 --> 00:02:59.240 As a matter of fact, I think you told me 55 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:03.280 that you're not even giving normal golf lessons anymore. You're 56 00:03:03.319 --> 00:03:04.840 just doing aim Point exclusively. 57 00:03:05.360 --> 00:03:09.599 Yeah, almost exclusively. I'll teach very little full swing. It's 58 00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:12.639 getting less and less and less over the years, and 59 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:14.199 it's nearly nothing now. 60 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:18.560 And from your perspective, and this is why I was 61 00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:21.039 so excited to have you on the show, because you know, 62 00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:24.879 there's so many different theories on putting. But as a 63 00:03:24.919 --> 00:03:29.280 certified instructor of I'm assuming you're a PGA certified instructor 64 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:32.800 as well. Yeah, So, as a PGA certified instructor and 65 00:03:32.840 --> 00:03:36.080 as an aim Point certified instructor, what is it about 66 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:39.919 aim Point that you love, and why should we embrace it? 67 00:03:40.599 --> 00:03:43.400 The reason that I love it is because I can 68 00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:46.000 prove it. I can prove it right on the putting 69 00:03:46.039 --> 00:03:49.759 green while I'm teaching it that here's the scenario, here's 70 00:03:49.759 --> 00:03:53.319 the hole, here's the ball, here's the surface. We can 71 00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:54.960 do a read. We can get it right, we can 72 00:03:55.000 --> 00:03:57.680 get it wrong. Whichever the answer is, I can go 73 00:03:57.719 --> 00:03:59.800 out and figure out why I got it right or 74 00:03:59.800 --> 00:04:01.680 why I got it wrong and measure it and prove it. 75 00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:03.120 That's why I got involved. 76 00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:06.639 So it's all about being able to quantify. 77 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:08.240 Everything exactly correct. 78 00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:13.439 All right, move on? I mean I want details. I 79 00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:19.079 want to know again from from your perspective, what it 80 00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:21.439 is that you teach. And you know, I'd like to 81 00:04:21.879 --> 00:04:25.040 just open the floor here and let you go. And 82 00:04:26.399 --> 00:04:28.720 you know, obviously it's not visual, but if you can 83 00:04:28.759 --> 00:04:32.439 walk us through the elements of it and why we 84 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:33.680 should fall in love with us too? 85 00:04:34.319 --> 00:04:37.439 Sure? I mean, first we start off with explaining to 86 00:04:37.480 --> 00:04:40.000 people what actually causes the ball to break? What are 87 00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:46.759 the actual true variables involved? And there's basically three and 88 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:49.759 those three are how steep is the ground between the 89 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:52.720 ball and the hole? Let the balls rolling across? What 90 00:04:52.879 --> 00:04:55.439 direction is the ball rolling across the ground? We use 91 00:04:55.480 --> 00:04:58.439 the term angle what angles across in the ground. And 92 00:04:58.480 --> 00:05:00.560 then the third one is how long is it doing 93 00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:03.439 it for? So if I can figure out what those 94 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:08.720 three things are, how steep, what angle, and for how long? 95 00:05:09.560 --> 00:05:13.199 Based on those things, physics and science says we can 96 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:16.079 predict the ball should do this. Now, certainly we can't 97 00:05:16.120 --> 00:05:19.120 control if it hits a ball mark or hits a spike, marray, 98 00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:20.800 whatever the case we be, and things of that nature. 99 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:23.759 The green' is not a perfect surface, but we have 100 00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:27.079 between thirty and forty seconds to make the best estimate 101 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:29.160 that we can make. And if you know what the 102 00:05:29.240 --> 00:05:32.920 variables are, how to find them and measure them, we 103 00:05:32.959 --> 00:05:35.920 can do that very very quickly and be done sometimes 104 00:05:35.959 --> 00:05:38.639 almost before we actually get to our ball from the fairway. 105 00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:40.560 We can start doing this process from one hundreds of 106 00:05:40.600 --> 00:05:43.360 yards away, and then we just get there. We kind 107 00:05:43.360 --> 00:05:45.959 of refine our answer based on what we know that 108 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:49.600 we're looking for, so it's a very specific process of 109 00:05:49.639 --> 00:05:53.120 things that we're looking for. The time element is mainly 110 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:56.800 broken down into our distance from the hole and the 111 00:05:56.839 --> 00:05:59.920 speed of the green. There's other things involved in that, 112 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:02.959 like grain and wind things of that nature, which are 113 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:05.240 much harder to quantify because they tend out to be 114 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:09.439 very consistent, you know, winds coming in and out. So 115 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:11.759 the main things that we deal with again are how 116 00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:15.439 steep one angle? Then you could say, you know, how 117 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:18.319 fast is the green and then how far away? So 118 00:06:18.360 --> 00:06:20.600 that's what was Once we figure those things out, we 119 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:23.160 have a piece of paper that we look at saying okay, 120 00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:28.079 based on these inputs, the answer should be X, and 121 00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:30.000 we go from there and try to hit it with 122 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:33.519 the assumption that our skills are going to hit the 123 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:36.000 ball that delivers it between six and twelve inches past 124 00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:38.279 the hole. That's one of the assumptions that we kind 125 00:06:38.279 --> 00:06:39.680 of build in is that every part we're going to 126 00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:42.959 try and hit at the same distance relative to where 127 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:47.000 we are and where the hole is. So it's working 128 00:06:47.040 --> 00:06:52.160 on you know, the actual skill the feels involved of 129 00:06:52.199 --> 00:06:55.639 determining what those variables are. So that's the art part 130 00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:57.680 that's still there that's never changed. We look at it, 131 00:06:57.720 --> 00:06:59.480 we feel that we do all those things trying to 132 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:02.759 figure out what those pieces are. Then the science piece 133 00:07:02.920 --> 00:07:06.360 is okay, based on our skill and our feel we 134 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:09.319 come up with this answer, and then we now we 135 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:13.160 have the harder of the two parts, in my opinion, 136 00:07:13.160 --> 00:07:15.839 which is actually hitting it there at the cruck speed, 137 00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:19.600 aiming it there, things of that nature. So you know 138 00:07:19.639 --> 00:07:21.600 all of those variables. I can go in and I 139 00:07:21.639 --> 00:07:24.959 can measure while I'm practicing and say, okay, I thought 140 00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:26.720 the ground was this steep and it was this deep. 141 00:07:26.759 --> 00:07:28.600 I thought I was coming from this direction, I was 142 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:31.040 coming from that direction. I thought I was eight feet 143 00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:33.759 away when I was ten feet away. Whatever the situation is, 144 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:37.680 I can do something to measure it, to find out 145 00:07:37.879 --> 00:07:41.839 how well I've practiced said versus how well I determined 146 00:07:41.839 --> 00:07:44.680 it in the real world, and continually work on these 147 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:47.120 skills that I can quantify, and like you said, it's 148 00:07:47.560 --> 00:07:50.399 quantifying feel is a great way to explain what we're 149 00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:52.800 trying to do. Saying okay, we need to figure out 150 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:54.240 what these things are. We're going to put an actual 151 00:07:54.319 --> 00:07:57.040 number on them. Not just well it's a little downhill 152 00:07:57.079 --> 00:07:59.040 and it goes a little to the right. We want 153 00:07:59.079 --> 00:08:01.680 to know exactly how much downhill it is, how steep 154 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:03.879 the ground is, that it's going down, all of those things, 155 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:07.959 and based on the accuracy of our skills determines the 156 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:10.480 accuracy of our read instead of just having it being 157 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:13.959 a kind of a memory device, which is what normal 158 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:15.720 green reading is. In my opinion, at least the way 159 00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:18.240 I was taught it is you look at the ground, 160 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:20.839 look at the ball at the hole, maybe go to 161 00:08:20.920 --> 00:08:22.680 the other side, maybe you throw the bucket of water 162 00:08:22.680 --> 00:08:25.399 around the green, whatever the situation may be, and then 163 00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:28.079 I use that information and try to apply it in 164 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:31.600 the future when I run across it again. Well, the 165 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:37.080 problem with that is that those only include the variables 166 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:40.519 of the ground itself. For example, if I had, you know, 167 00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:43.440 let's say, a ten foot pot across the slope on 168 00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:45.759 two different days, I can have it roll across the 169 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:51.000 exact same ground and break completely different amounts because of 170 00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:52.679 either the speed of the green or how hard I 171 00:08:52.759 --> 00:08:54.200 hit it, or whatever the case may be. There's some 172 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:57.720 other element in there besides just the ground itself that's 173 00:08:57.759 --> 00:08:59.840 going to help me to predict what it's going to do. 174 00:09:00.039 --> 00:09:02.159 If I only play the same course all the time, 175 00:09:02.799 --> 00:09:05.080 or at least a course that has the same speed 176 00:09:05.080 --> 00:09:07.399 of the green all the time, I can get very 177 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:10.360 good at applying what I see now to the future. 178 00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:12.840 As soon as I go to a new course or 179 00:09:12.879 --> 00:09:15.320 come to my course on like the invitational or remember 180 00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:17.519 guest day, and the greens are faster than normal or 181 00:09:17.559 --> 00:09:20.120 slower than normal, whatever the case may be. I have 182 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:22.679 no way now to predict what the curve will be 183 00:09:23.159 --> 00:09:26.840 based on all of my experience because they no longer 184 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:30.360 apply to the same situation. So I will constantly struggle 185 00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:33.440 trying to figure out, why does this ground look exactly 186 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:35.320 what I'm used to, what the ball is doing something different. 187 00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:38.840 So we're trying to teach people to kind of get 188 00:09:38.840 --> 00:09:41.799 out of that kind of, you know, the endless loop 189 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:44.480 of you know, apply to the current what I saw 190 00:09:44.519 --> 00:09:46.399 in the past, instead of saying, okay, here's what the 191 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:50.240 actual variables are. Let's figure out what they are and 192 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:52.240 then just apply them to the situation that I have. 193 00:09:53.600 --> 00:09:55.399 It's just a very different process of doing it. And 194 00:09:55.679 --> 00:09:59.519 it's very similar to you know, the change from you know, 195 00:09:59.720 --> 00:10:02.120 SI seven years ago or in every full shot was 196 00:10:02.159 --> 00:10:05.120 an eye based event. I look at the green here 197 00:10:05.159 --> 00:10:07.639 I am, I predict about how far away I am, 198 00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:11.200 and I choose a club based on that visual appearance, 199 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:13.840 and through time I start to build a relationship between 200 00:10:13.879 --> 00:10:15.759 what I see in my distance and what the club 201 00:10:15.759 --> 00:10:19.279 that equals, and I'm sure at some point in time 202 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:23.759 when yardage markers and lasers became more prevalent, the golfers 203 00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:25.600 that had learned the skill of doing it by sight 204 00:10:25.679 --> 00:10:29.000 were very reluctant to switch because they had invested all 205 00:10:29.039 --> 00:10:31.399 of this time and this energy and the skill in 206 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:37.519 learning that visual event. But nowadays nobody plays golf that way. 207 00:10:38.279 --> 00:10:40.440 All of the players that play for a living are 208 00:10:40.480 --> 00:10:42.960 mapping the course out in advance or shooting lasers, aregating 209 00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:45.759 as much detailed information as they can get to help 210 00:10:45.799 --> 00:10:48.519 them make that one choice. It's that same idea that's 211 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:51.360 that we're bringing to the green that instead of it 212 00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:55.799 being just a strictly visual event, it's an area that 213 00:10:55.960 --> 00:10:58.240 can be measured and can be quantified and can be 214 00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:01.440 learned as a skill. And then we apply science to 215 00:11:01.480 --> 00:11:02.039 an answer. 216 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:06.519 I am way too twenty first century centric, because when 217 00:11:06.519 --> 00:11:08.519 you said an ibased event, I thought you were talking 218 00:11:08.519 --> 00:11:13.200 about a new product from Apple. I was like, what, 219 00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:24.000 oh I E y E oh got it? How many 220 00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:30.440 other dare I call it a system? Aim point, we'll 221 00:11:30.440 --> 00:11:32.519 call ampoint a system at this point? How many other 222 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:39.000 systems have you experienced, studied, and taught before you concluded 223 00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:41.200 that aim Point was it. 224 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:46.000 When I started with aim Point, I wasn't aware of 225 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:50.200 any other system that proposed to do what Mark was doing. 226 00:11:51.039 --> 00:11:52.600 In fact, I mean, you don't know me from a 227 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:55.240 hill of beans. But when I first heard about it, 228 00:11:56.039 --> 00:11:59.320 I specifically got in contact with Mark to try and 229 00:11:59.320 --> 00:12:02.120 figure out what was wrong with it. There's no more 230 00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:06.720 skeptical person than myself in filtering information as it comes in. 231 00:12:08.200 --> 00:12:10.360 I have four kids, and I, especially in the wintertime, 232 00:12:10.360 --> 00:12:12.240 I spend a lot of time at home researching and 233 00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:16.039 doing stuff online trying to gather info. And so when 234 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:18.159 I had heard about this, I'm like, oh, this is interesting. 235 00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:20.080 No one's ever tried to say they could do this. 236 00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:21.840 I want to get a hold of this guy and 237 00:12:21.879 --> 00:12:24.080 figure out what's wrong with it. Well, how can I 238 00:12:24.120 --> 00:12:26.879 break this thing so it doesn't actually actually work? And 239 00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:29.799 when we got together, you know, he was able to 240 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:33.279 measure and quantify the things that he was doing, so 241 00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:36.720 I couldn't really argue with him, so I got involved. Now, 242 00:12:36.759 --> 00:12:39.919 since then, I believe there are two other systems that 243 00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:43.720 are at least maybe even more than that, maybe three 244 00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:46.000 that are kind of working off the same idea of 245 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:48.480 at least trying to predict what the ball will do. 246 00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:52.000 But I have not had any personal experience with either 247 00:12:52.039 --> 00:12:56.120 of those other systems, aside from just what I've read 248 00:12:56.159 --> 00:12:58.639 online or heard from others. But I've never been to 249 00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:01.879 another class another system to see exactly what they do. 250 00:13:01.879 --> 00:13:03.279 Do you know what the other systems are? 251 00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:07.000 I don't know the name of one. Jeff Manham's got 252 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:09.279 one some kind of wheel, but I don't know if 253 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:12.240 he's got a name for it. There's a new one 254 00:13:12.279 --> 00:13:16.519 out that is that the vector one. No, that's a 255 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:19.480 different one. That's a different one. And there's another one 256 00:13:19.480 --> 00:13:24.679 that a guy who used to do yardage books for 257 00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:28.720 the tour I think his name is and and he's 258 00:13:29.320 --> 00:13:31.360 just within the last couple of weeks or so, he's 259 00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:36.039 he's used all the topography information that he's gathered on 260 00:13:36.120 --> 00:13:39.039 tour to generate an app to say, Okay, well if 261 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:41.679 the holes here and the balls here, the balls should 262 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:44.399 break like so. But it's right on the phone. It 263 00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:46.240 would be completely illegal, but. 264 00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:50.039 That's not gonna stop us exactly. 265 00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:52.159 So, So those are the only the only other ones 266 00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:57.200 that I'm aware of that attempt to try and quantify 267 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:00.720 break based on location is what we're doing. 268 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:03.159 It's not John Grund. I know that John Grund did 269 00:14:03.159 --> 00:14:06.320 the yardage the sprinkler heads, but not the yardage guides. 270 00:14:06.519 --> 00:14:08.000 No, yeah, I think it's I think it's And I 271 00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:09.679 know his last name is Straca. I'm just not sure 272 00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:12.919 if his first name is John but s t R 273 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:15.159 A c k A. I think Straca. 274 00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:18.840 Yeah, I've seen that before too. And Jeff Mangum has 275 00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:23.240 uh has been a regular on Golf Smarter for years. 276 00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:28.399 And he's quite detail oriented. 277 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:29.000 No doubt. 278 00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:32.360 And if you ever looked at his website, oh I've been. 279 00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:36.120 I've engaged with Jeff many times and uh and and 280 00:14:36.840 --> 00:14:39.720 detailed is a great way to describe Jeff's responses. 281 00:14:40.919 --> 00:14:46.279 I won't say obsessive. I'll just say detailed, detailed. Yes, yeah, Jeff, 282 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:49.120 you're so entertaining. All right, Well, anyway we're gonna we're 283 00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:52.080 gonna get into I hope you you allow me to 284 00:14:52.120 --> 00:14:55.960 get into specifics about the elements of aim point and 285 00:14:55.960 --> 00:14:59.559 what what we can learn from you without obviously getting 286 00:14:59.559 --> 00:15:01.200 a clinic. This is about as close as we're going 287 00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:04.519 to get right now. But you do give you know, 288 00:15:04.600 --> 00:15:07.519 you were here in northern California just recently doing clinics 289 00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:10.600 all over the country, all over the world, all the time. 290 00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:13.480 Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I was just at the Metal Club 291 00:15:13.639 --> 00:15:16.200 up in Fairfax just last weekend. I'll be at the 292 00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:19.399 I'll be in Phoenix this weekend and then a few 293 00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:22.000 days for the LPGA event and oh great, very pretty 294 00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:24.240 much every weekend from now until almost the fourth of yourly. 295 00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:26.360 It's gonna be a busy spring. Great. 296 00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:29.039 Well, I apologize for missing, and I was out of town. 297 00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:31.240 I would have loved to have come up to the Meadal. 298 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:32.639 Club and yeah, it would have been great. 299 00:15:32.919 --> 00:15:35.559 Yeah, it would have been fun. Ever since I talked 300 00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:38.120 to Mark, I've been fascinated by this without having to 301 00:15:38.120 --> 00:15:43.639 get the lesson. I wanted to get one, but I've been, 302 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:47.759 you know, looking at greens lately. Mentioned recently. I live 303 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:52.360 right off of a private golf course, so I get 304 00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:54.679 to walk around the greens when people aren't around and 305 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:58.879 look at it and trying to identify slope and which 306 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:02.120 is the fall, which is the line? That is, if 307 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:04.000 we just drop the ball right here, it's just going 308 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:06.559 to not break at all. It's just going to go 309 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:11.000 dead straight right. Explain to me how we can do 310 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:13.679 that on a green without dropping a ball. I mean, 311 00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:17.000 let's let's go through the various steps on what it 312 00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:18.879 requires and how we learn how to do that. 313 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:24.159 Well, there's a multiple of ways. I'm sure Jeff has 314 00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:28.120 shared some we you know, we we there's only you know, 315 00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:34.720 a few ideas that actually, you know, hold true to 316 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:37.200 at least what we're trying to do. I mean, when 317 00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:39.200 when we're teaching it, especially to someone who's had a 318 00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:43.840 little bit of experience. Again, we'll start as from any 319 00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:47.320 distance away where they can see the ball and the 320 00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:50.399 surface and the flag, they can see those things. We 321 00:16:50.440 --> 00:16:53.240 start trying to identify the fall line from hundreds and 322 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:56.679 hundreds of yards away, generally speaking in terms of a 323 00:16:57.080 --> 00:17:01.720 general slope direction. Sometimes that's easier to see from a 324 00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:04.799 distance relative to the high and low points that kind 325 00:17:04.839 --> 00:17:08.240 of surround the surface itself. So we've actually had tournaments 326 00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:10.599 where we do all of the green reading from off 327 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:12.240 the green just to see how well we can do, 328 00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:15.039 and then once you get there you kind of refine it. 329 00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:18.640 But so when you're on the green, you know, it 330 00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:20.640 can still be a site event for sure, trying to 331 00:17:20.680 --> 00:17:26.799 figure out, you know, relative to you know, where the 332 00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:28.599 hole is and where the ball is and if we're 333 00:17:28.599 --> 00:17:32.000 assuming that we're crossing a single, single surface, we'll start 334 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:34.599 with the easiest one first. You know, the surface between 335 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:36.559 the ball and the hole is consistent. It's the same 336 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:41.200 direction and the same amount throughout. Now, certainly that doesn't 337 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:44.960 happen on all pots, but for the easiest of ones, 338 00:17:46.039 --> 00:17:48.559 we'll kind of start there. But it's trying to figure out, 339 00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:50.920 you know, in that area between the ball and the hole, 340 00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:53.279 what direction is the ground going. As you mentioned, what 341 00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:56.960 direction is the fall line. You know, I've used pictures 342 00:17:56.960 --> 00:17:59.799 of taking a hose and stuffing it in the hole 343 00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:02.480 and filling it up with water, and you know, figuring 344 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:05.920 out where the water would come out. You know, we've 345 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:10.559 we've talked about walking a circular shape around the hole 346 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:14.599 and then based on how you feel changes of elevation, 347 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:18.839 you can feel where the fall line will be. You know, 348 00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:21.359 if you're kind of walking half of a circle at 349 00:18:21.400 --> 00:18:23.079 some point you'll be walking down the other part to 350 00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:26.759 be walking up where that change is will be where 351 00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:29.839 the fall line is. You know, another way that we 352 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:32.480 do it is strictly just by sight, you know, just 353 00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:34.240 by looking at the hole, trying to figure out what's 354 00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:37.359 the high and low part on the whole. We also 355 00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:41.880 do it by in terms of just general all overall balance. 356 00:18:42.680 --> 00:18:46.440 You know, the body is designed to keep us upright 357 00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:50.000 and vertical so that we don't fall over, and based 358 00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:52.640 on just the way that we're standing on the surface, 359 00:18:53.240 --> 00:18:56.160 our body will make some adjustment to that, and in 360 00:18:56.279 --> 00:18:59.359 certain directions that we're going to be facing, we'll get 361 00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:03.920 a a sensation of balance that, Okay, this is facing 362 00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:05.519 up the hill and this is facing down the hill 363 00:19:05.559 --> 00:19:08.759 straight where if I was facing across the hill, I'd 364 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:10.440 have one foot lower than the other. You can kind 365 00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:14.000 of visualize that. So trying to figure out a balance 366 00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:17.240 relationship within our own body as to where the fall 367 00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:19.880 line would be based on how we're actually just standing 368 00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:22.160 on the ground would be one of the last ways 369 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:22.680 that we do it. 370 00:19:23.799 --> 00:19:27.640 When you're circling the hole trying to and I loved 371 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:30.799 when Mark talked about how you can if you close 372 00:19:30.839 --> 00:19:35.799 your eyes, you can kind of feel where the slope 373 00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:38.880 of the green and how it's changing while you're walking 374 00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:42.119 around it. But are you walking around it from two 375 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:45.440 feet away, five feet, ten feet? What is the optimum 376 00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:47.720 distance that you're circling the hole that you can feel 377 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:48.880 where the fall line. 378 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:52.400 Is it really varies. I mean, in a perfect world, 379 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:55.519 if the green was perfectly flat and tilted, you would 380 00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:57.480 do it at whatever distance your ball was away. It 381 00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:00.079 wouldn't matter because it would all be the same. In 382 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:02.039 the real world of greens, the fall line is not 383 00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:05.799 a nice, straight, continuous line. So we try to figure 384 00:20:05.799 --> 00:20:08.319 out the fall line that's between our ball and the hole, 385 00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:12.359 so that the walking one we don't use because generally 386 00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:14.240 you have to do it in a manner that's too 387 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:17.200 far away from where the ball is, So you know, 388 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:19.680 it's kind of taught to do it below where the 389 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:21.599 hole is. Well, if the ball is not near below 390 00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:24.519 where the hole is, the fall line could completely change 391 00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:27.920 somewhere else relative to the fall line that's below the hole, 392 00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:32.240 so we don't really use that. We try to figure 393 00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:34.079 out the fall line that's between the ball and the hole, 394 00:20:34.119 --> 00:20:35.759 that the fall line the balls are actually going to 395 00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:39.839 roll across as precisely as we can by doing more 396 00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:42.039 of that balance feel between the ball and the hole. 397 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:51.480 I love the image that you painted of I always 398 00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:55.480 thought about, you know which way is and people like that, 399 00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:58.200 how which way is the slope right on a green? 400 00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:00.000 And people always say, oh, well it goes to the mountain, 401 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:02.119