Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And wouldn't there be maybe a supernatural technology associated
Speaker 2: with that epod if it's anything like the urim and
Speaker 2: thumbum that the priests used to go into the presence
Speaker 2: of of God. There's there seemed to be some sort
Speaker 2: of a reason that they had twelve different types of stones,
Speaker 2: and you know, there seemed to be like like something
Speaker 2: magical about it, uh or or maybe not magical, but
Speaker 2: something some sort of a technology there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, because you know, the consensus is, you know,
Speaker 3: nobody really knows what the the umine and thummim exactly were.
Speaker 3: Some people believed that it was because it talks about
Speaker 3: it was under the ephod, So was this you know,
Speaker 3: stones that were connected to the epod breastplate, but just
Speaker 3: on the inside. Some people think that these were you know,
Speaker 3: divining stones, divination stones like ruins, and they were in
Speaker 3: a bag on a cord underneath the e fod. Because
Speaker 3: then when you get to King Saul and David and
Speaker 3: all these kings, many times before they go make a
Speaker 3: decision to go to war or some kind of major decision,
Speaker 3: they all say they wanted to uh consult the Umim
Speaker 3: and Thummim and it's pretty cool when you when you
Speaker 3: dive into that. I did an episode with Ryan Peterson
Speaker 3: called Powerful Stones, and we talked about that and broke
Speaker 3: that down, and he was saying that some people believe
Speaker 3: that it was these divination stones that you pulled out
Speaker 3: and you asked a question, and like they were like
Speaker 3: one was colored black, one was colored white, these two stones.
Speaker 3: He said, so if the black one rolled out, you know,
Speaker 3: it could have been a no, like the.
Speaker 4: Magic eight ball, you know.
Speaker 3: And he threw out all these different theories he said,
Speaker 3: but one I think is really cool.
Speaker 4: He said, some people believe that.
Speaker 3: These stones lit up on the chest kind of like
Speaker 3: Simon says, and there was initials and Hebrew letters on
Speaker 3: these tablets and that when they would you know, ask
Speaker 3: the questions and do all the rituals and stuff, that
Speaker 3: these stones on this breastplate would actually light up.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's that's the new one for me. It's like
Speaker 1: crystals in the Bible.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 3: And once again a lot of people get hung up
Speaker 3: be like that's new age that stuff that they have
Speaker 3: all same thing with astrology and astronomy. Once again, it
Speaker 3: goes back to Paul. We traded the truth for a
Speaker 3: lie and worship the created things instead of the creator. God,
Speaker 3: you know, gives permission and instructions on how to use
Speaker 3: these breastplates in these stones to communicate with him. You know,
Speaker 3: he gives you all these plans. It's from medicinal purposes
Speaker 3: to for your benefit. Your brain has receptors to receive
Speaker 3: a lot of these chemicals and all these different things.
Speaker 3: And it says, I, you know, put the moon and
Speaker 3: the stars in the furnament for signs and for seasons.
Speaker 3: You're supposed to look up there. He put them up
Speaker 3: there for a reason, for signs and seasons. But it's
Speaker 3: mankind once again, of the heart, the intentions. We perverted it,
Speaker 3: and we worshiped these stars and heavenly bodies like they
Speaker 3: were gods. We worshiped these crystals and stones like they
Speaker 3: were God. We got so infused with Pharmachiah that we
Speaker 3: worshiped the plants and the minerals. We traded the truth
Speaker 3: for a lie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it all gets kind of twisted and perverted
Speaker 2: once it gets into human hands. But even back to
Speaker 2: astronomy and astrology, that's a part of the story of
Speaker 2: the birth of Jesus. You know, the three wise men.
Speaker 2: We're using the heavens to map out their journey. And
Speaker 2: even in that story too, you've got King Herod, who
Speaker 2: I was looking at something recently and I found out
Speaker 2: that King Herod was actually an Edomite, and we see
Speaker 2: how he wanted to kill baby Jesus. He wanted to
Speaker 2: find the child and kill it. And I see that too,
Speaker 2: maybe as being a continuation of this seed war.
Speaker 3: M Yeah, because like I said, you had these garments,
Speaker 3: and this was the birth right you keep hearing about,
Speaker 3: you know, the birthright, the birthright, That's what this was.
Speaker 3: And when you go to the Book of jash Er,
Speaker 3: you follow that and it gets passed to the eldest son.
Speaker 4: Enoch had it.
Speaker 3: He went to Methuselah. From Methusla went to Noah. From Noah,
Speaker 3: it went over the Great flood, and it says that
Speaker 3: in Ham's going out, hams toole the garments and they
Speaker 3: wind up with Nimrod. And then it says that Esau,
Speaker 3: who also was a mighty hunter of the field, that
Speaker 3: was the same title that Nimrod had. So this was
Speaker 3: a battle of the ego. Here you had two men
Speaker 3: that were both claimed to be the mighty hunter of
Speaker 3: the field. And I've told people on shows before, it's
Speaker 3: like the Highlander. You know, there can only be one baby.
Speaker 3: And it said in the Book of Jeshure that Nimrod
Speaker 3: looked upon Esau with the envy and hatred all of
Speaker 3: his days, and that he went out into the field
Speaker 3: to hunt this sasquatch guy. And I tell him it's
Speaker 3: kind of like a gaston and beauty and the beast.
Speaker 3: You know, he was the mighty hunter, and he went
Speaker 3: after this beast of a man and wanted his head
Speaker 3: on his walld for the bragging rights. But Esau kills
Speaker 3: him and two of his gible rem men. Same word
Speaker 3: used to describe the Nephilum giants, and Nimrod himself was
Speaker 3: described as a giant. And according to the Book of Jasher,
Speaker 3: that's how he became a gibb or ring. Because in
Speaker 3: Genesis says that Nimrod became a gibble ring. The Book
Speaker 3: of Jasher equates that to him getting these garments and
Speaker 3: putting them on.
Speaker 2: Might that be a fourth, I don't know, a fourth
Speaker 2: iteration of the serpent seed, where you've got Caine, Esau, Nephilim,
Speaker 2: and then you've got this guy in Nimrod who becomes
Speaker 2: serpent seed.
Speaker 1: Does that track with you?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, And that's the thing too, is it's the
Speaker 3: battle of the seeds and the battle of the birthright.
Speaker 3: Because think about it and I kind of jumped around.
Speaker 3: I'll backtrack just a little bit for those that's not
Speaker 3: listened to me on another show. It's my theory that
Speaker 3: at the Fall in the garden it says that God
Speaker 3: uh covers their nakedness, you know, with with with according
Speaker 3: to what translation you read or how you you know,
Speaker 3: what denomination he was raised in, but made garments of skins. Well,
Speaker 3: when you go to the Hebrew, it says that God
Speaker 3: he'll bished their nakedness with a connon it and he'll
Speaker 3: bish is you know, covering of the nakedness. And then
Speaker 3: when you get to connone it. Most often that word
Speaker 3: is translated as tunic, but some English translations just changed
Speaker 3: it to skins.
Speaker 4: And so. But when you go through.
Speaker 3: God's instructions to the priests and to Moses on how
Speaker 3: to create these priestly garments, it uses that exact same verbage.
Speaker 3: It says that the ephod that they made in their
Speaker 3: wilderness wanderings were to was a connonet and it was
Speaker 3: used to heal bish their nakedness. So it's drawing and
Speaker 3: pointing back with what scholars like to call the law
Speaker 3: first mentioned. When the word is used or a phrase
Speaker 3: is used first, it sets the standard, and when they
Speaker 3: use it again, they're pointing back to that first time
Speaker 3: that it was used. And all rabbis point their beginnings
Speaker 3: to Adam. The rabbinic tradition is is that Adam was
Speaker 3: the first king and priest of all creation. And remember
Speaker 3: it is equal. Twenty eight said that Satan was perfect
Speaker 3: in all his ways. In the garden, every precious stone
Speaker 3: was is covering. He defiled his sanctuary. So in the
Speaker 3: book I lay out the theory that when Satan was
Speaker 3: cast out, his priestly position was taken from him, and
Speaker 3: his garments, something he wore with pride, was ripped away
Speaker 3: from him and given to humanity, given to Adam. And
Speaker 3: that's how Adam become the first priest and king of
Speaker 3: all creation. And that was the birthright, the priesthood, the authority,
Speaker 3: symbol of kingship. So of course Satan wants these back,
Speaker 3: and if he's got a seed, he's going to do
Speaker 3: everything he can to try to get his sons to
Speaker 3: get this birthright and those garments back into the family.
Speaker 4: And that's why I say.
Speaker 3: That give him a lot of good motivation to flip
Speaker 3: the two seeds in the wound to make Esau come
Speaker 3: out first. Because he was the eldest, he'd be first
Speaker 3: in line to get the garments. And then when he
Speaker 3: kills Nimrod, it says that he steals the garment's back
Speaker 3: and then runs back home. And here's where you get
Speaker 3: that ties into the Book of Genesis, the trading of
Speaker 3: the birthright. That never made sense because it says he
Speaker 3: just fought three giants, killed them all and killed King Neimrod,
Speaker 3: probably sustained some life threatening injuries, and he just killed
Speaker 3: the king. He's on the run man. So he runs
Speaker 3: in home, probably bleeding out, got some life threatening injuries,
Speaker 3: and he's asking his brother, you know, sew me up,
Speaker 3: bandage my wounds, give me something to eat, hide me.
Speaker 3: I'm desperate, I'm in trouble. And he just told the
Speaker 3: birth right the garments, and Jacob seizes the opportunity. He's like, yeah, sure,
Speaker 3: trading your birthright. And then that's why he said, fine,
Speaker 3: take it. What use is a birthright to me when
Speaker 3: I'm dead. Now, that makes a lot more sense than
Speaker 3: just he come in from the field exhausted and traded
Speaker 3: his birthright.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and he was I should note too, I've
Speaker 2: always read it like this. I got the sense that
Speaker 2: he was extremely famished. He was very hungry because he
Speaker 2: had been in a battle. Essentially, he was fighting these
Speaker 2: giants and that took it out of him, and he
Speaker 2: probably sustained injuries too as well. And I've always had
Speaker 2: this thought, and this might just be my imagination, but
Speaker 2: I always had this thought that back then, the Earth's
Speaker 2: atmosphere was different, and you know, plants were, maybe bigger,
Speaker 2: things were possibly just different. I always thought that maybe
Speaker 2: ancient man healed differently than we do.
Speaker 1: Maybe they needed to eat.
Speaker 2: And then they could heal from their wounds on a
Speaker 2: level that.
Speaker 1: We can't today.
Speaker 2: Maybe it took them two hours to heal something that
Speaker 2: might take us a couple of days. And he had
Speaker 2: to get that food in him though, to jump start
Speaker 2: that process. Now that's just conjecture, But regardless of the
Speaker 2: healing part and the wounds part, he was battling these
Speaker 2: guys and that did take it out of him.
Speaker 1: He needed to eat.
Speaker 2: So that bowl of stew probably looked probably looked like
Speaker 2: his lifeline in that.
Speaker 4: Moment, and you could very well be right.
Speaker 3: And how I looked at it was just kind of
Speaker 3: like a like an allegory, you know, like it was
Speaker 3: the soup. Yeah, it might have been a literal soup,
Speaker 3: but it was like, no, hide me, protect me, give
Speaker 3: me nourishment, you know. But there is one cool thing
Speaker 3: I read in a book. I can't remember the name
Speaker 3: of it now, but it was I think it was
Speaker 3: doctor Laura Sanger's book on the Federal Reserve, but she
Speaker 3: was talking about Esau. She had a chapter or two
Speaker 3: in there, and she said that this red lentonel stew
Speaker 3: was a cool part in the Jewish heritage because at
Speaker 3: the beginning of that story in Genesis, it says that
Speaker 3: at this time Abraham had died, but Esau went out
Speaker 3: into the field to hunt, and then Jacob was preparing
Speaker 3: this red stew and then came home and trade the birthright.
Speaker 3: But there was all kinds of Jewish tradition of making
Speaker 3: this red lentiny stew as like a death ritual for
Speaker 3: the morning of a lost relative or an elder. So
Speaker 3: it was like the way she painted it was that
Speaker 3: where Jacob was a man of the house, you know,
Speaker 3: he stayed indoors and was more about reading the text
Speaker 3: and learning and being around his mother, learning how to
Speaker 3: cook and the traditions and all this kind of stuff,
Speaker 3: where Esau was just a wild carnal man, a manly
Speaker 3: man that when Abraham had passed away, the family was
Speaker 3: in mourning, but Esau was like, ay, I'm gonna go hunt.
Speaker 3: So it painted Jacob in this light even more favorably,
Speaker 3: that he was mourning the death of his grandfather and
Speaker 3: doing these ritualistic riots and preparing this red stew because
Speaker 3: that was what was expected of him. It was a
Speaker 3: respectful and thing that he was supposed to do culturally.
Speaker 3: And then when Esau come back home, beat probably beat
Speaker 3: the crap and cut all the pieces and starve them
Speaker 3: to death seeing this stew, and Jacob was saving it
Speaker 3: for his mourning father because that was part of the tradition,
Speaker 3: and Esau was like, now.
Speaker 4: The hell with that, give it to me. I need it.
Speaker 3: So once again it was painting Esau in a non
Speaker 3: favorable light.
Speaker 2: I wonder too, if it's another example of real life
Speaker 2: stuff kind of lining up with the Bible. I see
Speaker 2: it happen a lot with archaeological sites, but also with
Speaker 2: if these were red lentils. You know, that is a
Speaker 2: food type that's been used in that region for thousands
Speaker 2: of years, and they specifically red lentils because they keep
Speaker 2: longer than rice. It's just it would have been a
Speaker 2: perfect food for the ancients to have around and use
Speaker 2: because it goes, it will fill up a stew, it'll
Speaker 2: give your you know, if you have a soup, it'll
Speaker 2: give your soup more texture, and it goes well with everything.
Speaker 2: You could eat it with eggs, you can eat it
Speaker 2: with meat, and it stores for long periods of time,
Speaker 2: specifically red lentil. So I always wondered if that was
Speaker 2: what they're talking about in that story, like specifically red
Speaker 2: lentil's just because it's been used.
Speaker 1: For so long. There's all kinds of cool, little.
Speaker 3: Little fun context.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3: And what I was getting to I backed up and
Speaker 3: went down a bunny trail and got lost there. But uh,
Speaker 3: you mentioned, you know, the Edomites and the different you know,
Speaker 3: seed lines and stuff. I was getting to that, and
Speaker 3: then I remember that I didn't give the backstory of
Speaker 3: the garment, so I had to give that context. But
Speaker 3: once this happens, it's kind of like he verbally agrees
Speaker 3: with his brother, but it's kind of like in the
Speaker 3: back of his mind he was desperate and he was like, ah,
Speaker 3: there is no witnesses. If I make it through this,
Speaker 3: I'm not giving you the birth right.
Speaker 4: Huh.
Speaker 3: But then at the the death of Isaac, when Isaac
Speaker 3: was getting close to his last few days he thought
Speaker 3: his life was slipping away that he went blind. Once again,
Speaker 3: we see that this is not hyperbole like you had mentioned.
Speaker 3: You know, oh, maybe his arms were Harry, or maybe
Speaker 3: it was. This was just poetic language. They have to
Speaker 3: kill a goat, which is, you know, Harry, greasy and coarse,
Speaker 3: and wrap up Jacob in this fur to fool his
Speaker 3: blind father he was, so he was literally that Harry
Speaker 3: and then steals the blessing. So this was kind of
Speaker 3: like the lawyer's office signing the paperwork. The deal is done.
Speaker 3: So when Esau comes in and realize he's been been
Speaker 3: basically screwed out of his birthright and he's blessing both,
Speaker 3: he becomes angry and says he's going to kill his brother,
Speaker 3: so his mother sends him away but here's where he
Speaker 3: goes into like full rebellion, and he takes two wives
Speaker 3: from the Canaanites and they are whoreite in hebites. And
Speaker 3: you know, if you listen to Gary Wayne or take
Speaker 3: a deep dive into the genealogies there, those were known
Speaker 3: Nephilim giant tribes. So here you have this Harry quote
Speaker 3: unquote man marrying and interbreeding with Nephilim giant clans, you
Speaker 3: have a really high probability of throwing some strange looking pups.
Speaker 3: And Esau's nephew, his son was Eliphaz eliphas also took
Speaker 3: a who giant tests and produced this guy named Amelek,
Speaker 3: who an entire tribe of Nephilim giants was named after,
Speaker 3: called the Amalakites, and that name in Hebrew means blood liquors.
Speaker 3: And this is the first tribe that God's people have
Speaker 3: encounters with in their wilderness wanderings. And they're described like
Speaker 3: ghosts are in the very least like in modern terms
Speaker 3: like militia type warfare. They hid in the woods, like
Speaker 3: in the shadows, and the old men and women that
Speaker 3: were stragglers in the back of the pack, they just
Speaker 3: run in and take them out and get out of
Speaker 3: there before they knew what happened, just picking them off.
Speaker 3: And they finally come to a head and have a battle,
Speaker 3: but it takes the supernatural will of God and the
Speaker 3: Moses's staff. Moses has to go up on the hill,
Speaker 3: and it says that the Amalekites were winning the war,
Speaker 3: but when Moses went up there and held up his staff,
Speaker 3: then Israel could overcome them. So it was like some
Speaker 3: sorcery was going on behind the scenes between their magicians
Speaker 3: and Moses. And there's where you get all your rules,
Speaker 3: and you don't get rules and regulations unless those rules
Speaker 3: regulations are already being broken. And it says, no longer
Speaker 3: will you use sacrifice to hore you go demons. No
Speaker 3: longer will you pass your children through the fire.
Speaker 4: No longer will.
Speaker 3: You seek necromancers and sorcerers. And the Book of Isaiah
Speaker 3: talks about the hairy wild harry wildlings or.
Speaker 4: Something like that.
Speaker 3: But when you go into the septuagen in the original languages,
Speaker 3: they're talking about satyrs, fonds, half goat, half men. So yeah,
Speaker 3: so here I think this is telling God's people were
Speaker 3: seeing these people, and these people were practicing those acts.
Speaker 3: They were practicing passing children through the fire, they were
Speaker 3: practicing necromancy and sorcery. They were drinking the blood and
Speaker 3: doing all these things, and they were imitating them and
Speaker 3: copying them. And that's why God come and said, don't
Speaker 3: do this, don't do that. And Rashi, it was a
Speaker 3: medieval rabbi that had done a lot of work on
Speaker 3: the the Midrash and the targums, wrote his own commentaries
Speaker 3: and stuff. He said that when God said, you know,
Speaker 3: go into the land and go it devout to destruction
Speaker 3: these Nefhlin giant clans, it says, kill every man, woman,
Speaker 3: and child, and even animal.
Speaker 4: Was because they these people.
Speaker 3: Were known sorcerers and they were shape shifters, that they
Speaker 3: would shape shift into animals to avoid capture and death.
Speaker 2: Wow, you know that the goat demon thing that really
Speaker 2: stood out to me. I've got this version that I
Speaker 2: read from earlier, is a new revised standard version, and
Speaker 2: in this version it says multiple times it talks about
Speaker 2: the goat demons in the Old Testament, And there's that
Speaker 2: one I'm blinking on.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was Deuteronomy.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to remember what what book it was.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, when they when they.
Speaker 2: Talk about sacrifice, they say in this version, it says
Speaker 2: something onlines of send a goat out into the wilderness
Speaker 2: for Azazel, but they capitalize it capital a Azazel as
Speaker 2: if it's being sent out there to an entity.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But and and and it seems like.
Speaker 2: Azazel is kind of maybe connected to the goat demons
Speaker 2: in some sort of way. I'm I'm not really sure
Speaker 2: about that, but I want to say that there was
Speaker 2: a want a passage in there where it seemed like
Speaker 2: the two were mentioned very closely to each other. Azazel,
Speaker 2: I think is just probably a follen angel who was
Speaker 2: trapped in that region potentially.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but Mizzel, But yeah, and I think too was
Speaker 3: you have Esau this, this hairy man created an entire
Speaker 3: tribe and nation of people by breeding with these giants.
Speaker 3: So they had these you know, some of them might
Speaker 3: have been giants, some of them been average heights, but
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 4: All of them were covered in hair.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they probably wore you know, helmets or hats
Speaker 3: with horns just to try maybe make themselves even look
Speaker 3: even more intimidating. And they were sacrificing children, drinking the
Speaker 3: blood of their enemies and doing necromancy and sorcery, and
Speaker 3: people had legends that they were shape shifters hiding out
Speaker 3: in the woods and picking them off, you know, and
Speaker 3: all this stuff. So it's like, I believe that's who
Speaker 3: they were talking about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're getting a dose of folklore and encryptids
Speaker 2: in that story.
Speaker 1: It's fascinating.
Speaker 2: And I think too, I mean Esau and maybe his descendants.
Speaker 2: I do think that he would have looked like something
Speaker 2: if we follow the text, he would have looked like Chewbacca,
Speaker 2: maybe with like a human face, but he would have
Speaker 2: been that Harry, it seems like, and there seems to
Speaker 2: be something connecting. There seems to be some sort of
Speaker 2: a marker here, because I think too with isn't the
Speaker 2: mark of Cain? Isn't part of that where he becomes
Speaker 2: Harry as well?
Speaker 3: Yeah, when you go through the the the oral traditions
Speaker 3: of the Jewish people and then you get into the midrash,
Speaker 3: that's what they say in that guy.
Speaker 4: I mentioned earlier that medieval.
Speaker 3: Rabbi Rashi talks about that too, and he was saying
Speaker 3: that Cain's cursing was that he was covered in hair
Speaker 3: and he was given a horn, and that's why he
Speaker 3: was so freaked out about being killed because number one,
Speaker 3: he looked like this Harry beast and the people the
Speaker 3: day six p people that were already out there was
Speaker 3: going to hunt him down and kill him, or that
Speaker 3: beasts of the field would see him as a predator
Speaker 3: and probably get tore apart by wild animals. So he
Speaker 3: was in his mind he was screwed on both ends.
Speaker 3: He was just terrified. But what's really cool is when
Speaker 3: you go through the Midrash and that guy Rashi is
Speaker 3: that in Genesis you have this story of Limec and
Speaker 3: it says that one day he just comes in and
Speaker 3: he says, if Kine was cursed time seven, I'll be
Speaker 3: cursed seventy times seven. I just killed a man and
Speaker 3: in my anger struck down a youth. Well, according to Midrash,
Speaker 3: was that Limeck was going blind in his older age,
Speaker 3: and that his youngest son would go hunting with him
Speaker 3: and aid him help him track the animal, point his
Speaker 3: bow for him, and they see this big Harry beast
Speaker 3: out in the woods, and his son squares up his
Speaker 3: bow for his dad and tells him to shoot, and
Speaker 3: they dropped it the beast and when they walk up,
Speaker 3: they realize that it's Cain, and in his anger, Lamette
Speaker 3: kills his son for the mistake, and Rochie says that
Speaker 3: it's his belief that people misunderstood the cursing, that it
Speaker 3: wasn't saying that whoever kills Kane will be cursed time seven.
Speaker 3: That God was saying that Able's blood would be revenged
Speaker 3: in the seventh generation. It was a prophecy and when
Speaker 3: you count down, limec was the seventh.
Speaker 2: Ah, yeah, you don't hear that. That take on that
Speaker 2: curse very much. That's that makes sense, makes all the sense.
Speaker 3: And my thing is too, is I mean, like any
Speaker 3: good investigator, you go to the source. If you have
Speaker 3: a police officer and you're the police officer and show
Speaker 3: up to a call and there's two guys standing in
Speaker 3: front of a store that just got robbed, and one
Speaker 3: of the other cops tell you, hey, the you know,
Speaker 3: do your interview. The one on the left was here
Speaker 3: and seeing it all happen, and the one on the
Speaker 3: right was four blocks down. But he heard from his sister, sisters, sisters,
Speaker 3: brother the story, who do you want to talk to?
Speaker 3: You want to talk to the guy that was there,
Speaker 3: and So that's how I look at these ancient legends
Speaker 3: and these other non biblical writings, because they were from
Speaker 3: that time. It was their culture, it was their stories.
Speaker 3: I'm going to take their word over a twenty first
Speaker 3: century scholar or preacher that's you know, reading it with
Speaker 3: their contextual eyes. I want to get to the source
Speaker 3: if I can.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, you know, you see too in the ancient world.
Speaker 2: You see serpent iconography throughout the ancient world. It's it's
Speaker 2: all throughout just about everywhere, especially South America, you see
Speaker 2: it a lot. And I was wondering, of course, we
Speaker 2: have serpent mound here in Ohio as well, and there
Speaker 2: are other serpent mounds here in the US that people
Speaker 2: don't know about. Like there's a guy I follow that
Speaker 2: goes through and digs up old accounts of giants and
Speaker 2: he posts them, and he was he found an old
Speaker 2: article that referenced seven or eight serpent mounds in addition
Speaker 2: to the one in Ohio. And I know I've seen
Speaker 2: one in India Indiana as well. There's one in Indiana
Speaker 2: that people don't know about. I've seen the pictures of it,
Speaker 2: and I'm just wondering, do you think that that somehow
Speaker 2: fits into this.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, And I think it kind of revolves around
Speaker 3: into even the the d MT, the ayahuasca, the mushrooms,
Speaker 3: because you know, in the Book of Enoch, it says
Speaker 3: that one of the things that they taught humanity was
Speaker 3: the cutting of roots. And I tell people it's kind
Speaker 3: of like at the Fall, it's kind of like we
Speaker 3: had our If you look at your brain is like
Speaker 3: a radio, like an old school radio with the dial.
Speaker 3: It's a it's a receiver. In your eyes are the
Speaker 3: the thing you used to see, but it's tuned to
Speaker 3: this certain channel in your brain that transcribes it and
Speaker 3: tells you what you're seeing. It's like in the garden
Speaker 3: we walked amongst the sons of God and God himself.
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, if you want to relate that
Speaker 3: to dimensions, it's like we were like in a fifth, sixth,
Speaker 3: eighth dimension and at the Fall, it's like that wire
Speaker 3: was cutting, our radio channel was turned and these fallen angels.
Speaker 3: To communicate with these people was through these plants and
Speaker 3: the cutting of these roots, this pharmachia, and they tied
Speaker 3: it to us. That way we could take these things
Speaker 3: and go up an extra dimension. Or two and tune
Speaker 3: that receptor so we could see and communicate with them,
Speaker 3: and that's what they wanted. And without fail, when you
Speaker 3: go through Rick strassman studies where he was hooking up
Speaker 3: ivs and dripping pure DMT to people and doing all
Speaker 3: those studies. Darby in his book The Cosmic Serpent, without fail,
Speaker 3: all these people that take these mind altering drugs and
Speaker 3: go into this other realm, they mess with that frequency
Speaker 3: without fail, every single one sees what they describe as
Speaker 3: a cosmic serpent, this huge serpent with glowing scales and
Speaker 3: sparkled and it's a shining one. And like you said,
Speaker 3: you have this serpentine iconography everywhere, and scripture describes him
Speaker 3: as that ancient twisting serpent. So it's like kuld he shapeshift.
Speaker 3: Was this just an allegory an epithet? I mean, we
Speaker 3: don't know, but we do know that there was an
Speaker 3: obvious correlation to the serpent and him. Some people even
Speaker 3: talk about, you know, like serpentine looking humanoids. It's just
Speaker 3: that's one of those things that we will speculate forever
Speaker 3: and probably never figure out till the end. But it's
Speaker 3: definitely interesting to look into it.
Speaker 4: And postulate.
Speaker 1: The DMT.
Speaker 2: Aspect that you brought. That's that's an interesting point there.
Speaker 2: There's a guy who I'm thinking about bringing on to
Speaker 2: the show. I talked to him for about an hour
Speaker 2: and a half on the phone a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 2: and he was telling me about his experiences with DMT,
Speaker 2: which were extensive. It wasn't just a couple of times
Speaker 2: like he's gone. He's done it a lot. And he
Speaker 2: was telling me about it, and what was happening to
Speaker 2: him was and He's told me flat out, He's like,
Speaker 2: when you take this, you.
Speaker 1: Go into another dimension.
Speaker 2: And I was like, yeah, that's what I That's what
Speaker 2: I thought. I was like that, that's been my suspicion.
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, it seems that way. And I asked him,
Speaker 2: I'm like, what makes you say that, and he's like, well,
Speaker 2: he got to a point there where every time I
Speaker 2: took it, I was talking to the same entity, and
Speaker 2: I was picking up where the conversation left off from
Speaker 2: the previous trip. And he's like, the entity told me
Speaker 2: her name and everything. And I'm probably just not gonna
Speaker 2: go too far or into this because I'll just let
Speaker 2: him tell it because it's his story, but that was
Speaker 2: enough for me right there and then, and then he
Speaker 2: went on to further describe this situation, but they were
Speaker 2: carrying on a conversation almost like if your phone call
Speaker 2: got interrupted and you'd call the person back, and yeah, yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 2: So I think that that was an ancient form, not
Speaker 2: even ancient, I guess it's just been around now for
Speaker 2: all time. It's a form of making contact with these
Speaker 2: entities in this in this other realm. And it's crazy
Speaker 2: because a week after I had that conversation with him,
Speaker 2: he told me the name of this entity that he
Speaker 2: was talking to.
Speaker 1: And a week.
Speaker 2: After that, I was going through and I was looking
Speaker 2: into some old uh the origins of the Nazis and
Speaker 2: all that. There's a book that the Nazis were very
Speaker 2: heavily into called the Aura Linda, and it deals with
Speaker 2: a group of people in the islands of northern Germany
Speaker 2: who have their still to this day. They have their
Speaker 2: own language and their own culture there, and in this
Speaker 2: book they are the people of this entity.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So, I don't know if I'm doing a good job
Speaker 2: of explaining. I'm trying not to say the name of
Speaker 2: this this entity, but if that makes sense, but they
Speaker 2: they're called Phrisians.
Speaker 1: These people that, yeah, and the.
Speaker 2: Nazis kind of found a tribute their their descendants to
Speaker 2: another one of these Atlantean Ariyan type of bloodlines.
Speaker 1: But they answer to one.
Speaker 2: Specific entity, and that entity's name is the name of
Speaker 2: the entity that this guy I was talking to in
Speaker 2: this DMT trip, and I thought that was crazy. It's like,
Speaker 2: maybe this is just one of those beings that people
Speaker 2: throughout time have contacted. And by the way, I am
Speaker 2: not recommending people do this.
Speaker 1: I'm just just.
Speaker 2: I don't you know, I don't promote it, but I
Speaker 2: don't deny it either.
Speaker 1: That's where I'm at.
Speaker 3: Like that song you reference at the beginning of the show,
Speaker 3: Pleased to Meet you, hope you can guess my name exactly.
Speaker 2: That's it, I mean, that's that's That's what we're dealing
Speaker 2: with here.
Speaker 1: And I've got I got really.
Speaker 2: Into the UFO thing for a while. I went down
Speaker 2: that rabbit hole, which I'm not dogmatic on that, by
Speaker 2: the way.
Speaker 1: I just it was just something I was interested in.
Speaker 1: But what I've found is that they're that entity.
Speaker 2: Ishtar also known as Aphrodite and Anna. She's been around
Speaker 2: meddling in human for a very long time, and she's
Speaker 2: showing up in this modern day UFO movement as well.
Speaker 2: In my research, she kept coming up again and again
Speaker 2: and again for me. So I do think that it's
Speaker 2: like sympathy for the devil, where throughout the ages you
Speaker 2: have a group of these entities that are meddling in
Speaker 2: human affairs, and it probably.
Speaker 3: They're either the falling angels from Genesis six or the
Speaker 3: rebellious sons of God from Deuteronomy thirty two. And there's
Speaker 3: and they're added to the book is we have no
Speaker 3: reason to believe that their free will had ended, and
Speaker 3: we don't still continually have angels filing and rebelling.
Speaker 2: Well, that's the best part about getting into this stuff
Speaker 2: more heavily for me and looking for answers. It's like
Speaker 2: I'm finding answers for this stuff. Like everything I just
Speaker 2: said about this guy's DMT trip and these people, these
Speaker 2: this civilization that answered to this one entity and and
Speaker 2: and it is started that sounds like crazy talk, but
Speaker 2: there's answers for that here if you want them.
Speaker 3: And all these ancient cultures too. They they had skull colts,
Speaker 3: and they had ancestor worship and veneration of their of
Speaker 3: their ancestors, and it was even something that that God's
Speaker 3: people done. You know, if you look into Abraham when
Speaker 3: he hadn't had a child yet, he was talking to Liaisar,
Speaker 3: his cup bearer, and he said, who will who will
Speaker 3: bear my cup? Liaisar, my servant, I am without an air.
Speaker 4: He was talking.
Speaker 3: About the ancient rituals of veneration and ancestor worship. They
Speaker 3: believed that the eldest son was known as the cup bearer,
Speaker 3: and they had a kishim and they would put these
Speaker 3: terifim or a little model uh into their people, a
Speaker 3: little model people like action figures basically in our modern vernacular,
Speaker 3: and bury them under the house at the table, and
Speaker 3: they would have a tube running up to the table,
Speaker 3: and like there was a certain time of the year
Speaker 3: where they would say the name of their ancestors and
Speaker 3: pour wine down this tube and offer food to it.
Speaker 3: Because they believed that kind of like the Hispanic people
Speaker 3: with the dead of the dead, they put up pictures,
Speaker 3: they light candles, they present you know, if I was
Speaker 3: dead and loved Jack Daniels and Rama noodle soups, somebody
Speaker 3: would hold my picture out, light candles and put Jack
Speaker 3: Daniels and Rama noodle and leave it out for me
Speaker 3: because I needed that to sustain myself in the afterlife.
Speaker 3: And if nobody done that, your soul just got obliterated
Speaker 3: and went into the abyss the ultimate second death. And
Speaker 3: that's what they believed back then, and that's what Abraham
Speaker 3: was alluding to. He was like, you know, who's going
Speaker 3: to be my cupbearer, Who's going to be the one
Speaker 3: to save my name and to offer these drink offerings
Speaker 3: and stuff. I have no eldest son. And the berserkers,
Speaker 3: you know, up there, they would do these necromantic rituals
Speaker 3: and call on their dead ancestors warrior spirits to inhabit them.
Speaker 3: That's what the berserkers were and said they were possessed.
Speaker 3: They were wild men that they would get stabbed and
Speaker 3: gutted and keep fighting. And because they were ultimately possessed
Speaker 3: by demons, by these Nephelum giant tribes ye, the disembodied
Speaker 3: spirits of the nephilemb And I think that's just something
Speaker 3: we see throughout culture. They think they're doing dead ancestor worship,
Speaker 3: and they're really venerating and worshiping these disembodied spirits with
Speaker 3: the Neffi lem and a lot of people now are
Speaker 3: talking about seeing ghosts and seeing Grandma at.
Speaker 4: The edge of the bed d That ain't Grandma.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think so either.
Speaker 1: I don't think so either. I think there's a there's.
Speaker 2: A lot more to apparitions that people see, and even
Speaker 2: even some of these aliens, uh, that might not actually
Speaker 2: be an alien. It could be something taking on the
Speaker 2: form of what we perceive to be an alien. There's
Speaker 2: I think that this this intelligence takes on the form
Speaker 2: of like a trickster sometimes like a astro theological trickster.
Speaker 2: It's it's been around a lot.
Speaker 3: Whatever we want to see, yeah, whatever, we're going to
Speaker 3: better accept them as I hain't gonna say I I
Speaker 3: need to use the bathroom.
Speaker 4: Just really quick.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll pause it.
Speaker 4: What sixteen ounce?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know that'll do it to you.
Speaker 2: I I always bring a tea, a couple of tea
Speaker 2: in with me and like a gatorade, and sometimes I
Speaker 2: drink too much of it and I'm sitting here doing
Speaker 2: the dance in my chair. Yes, yes, it does. I
Speaker 2: wanted to show you something real quick. This is something
Speaker 2: that la Marzouli posted recently it's just a wild.
Speaker 1: Picture because.
Speaker 2: He said this post was things that he's seen in
Speaker 2: his travels. So I'm going to try to figure out
Speaker 2: where this was. I'd say it belongs to Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it definitely South America.
Speaker 1: I'd say it belongs to the ancient world.
Speaker 2: But it's also got these little faces in here that
Speaker 2: look like emojis. That's what stuck out to me the
Speaker 2: most about this. And it's got this it's got this
Speaker 2: serpent iconography.
Speaker 4: Yeah all over it. Yet the double headed eagle.
Speaker 3: You got like the staff of a Sclepius, that staff
Speaker 3: with the serpent's twisting up it like a DNA strand almost.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the long four time, so I you know, just.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's got these on the left side there on
Speaker 2: this well, there's two staffs.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: On the left side, it's got something that looks like
Speaker 2: a spirit like maybe it's a cat, but it's a
Speaker 2: very strength.
Speaker 4: It's South America. It's probably a jaguar.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2: So so what did you say just second, did you
Speaker 2: say double double headed eagle?
Speaker 1: Did that mean something to you?
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a lot of.
Speaker 3: Symbolic stuff that you see like in the Mystery Schools
Speaker 3: and the Freemasons, which I don't have in front of me,
Speaker 3: but I have a copy of Morals and Dogma Albert Pike,
Speaker 3: and on the front of it that's what it is.
Speaker 3: It's a double headed eagle looking east and west and
Speaker 3: it's basically, uh, the Nordous Ovseclorum new world order that
Speaker 3: that expands as far as east to the west. And
Speaker 3: the head looks both directions and spreads its wings, so
Speaker 3: you know, it's basically saying that it's all knowing, all
Speaker 3: sing and very vast.
Speaker 2: This this kind of reminds me of it has d
Speaker 2: MT trip vibes as well. Oh yeah, this looks like
Speaker 2: maybe a shaman or maybe how a shaman would be
Speaker 2: perceived after you take something psychedelic.
Speaker 4: M h.
Speaker 3: And it's the marrying of opposites too, because one thing
Speaker 3: with the shamanism and stuff don there in South America,
Speaker 3: the the what's the word I'm looking for, Jaguar is
Speaker 3: basically symbolistic for earth the ground.
Speaker 4: Because he is like the.
Speaker 3: Top predator and top thing that they seen that was
Speaker 3: on the ground. And then that thing up there I
Speaker 3: called an eagle. If that's South America. It's probably a
Speaker 3: condor that was their big religious symbol and venerated bird,
Speaker 3: so like a double headed condor, So that's like the
Speaker 3: top predator of the sky. So each hand, in one
Speaker 3: hand he's holding the symbol for earth in the ground,
Speaker 3: and then the other hand is the sky. So it's
Speaker 3: the marrying of opposites of the yin and yang, basically
Speaker 3: the combining of of heaven and Earth.
Speaker 1: Wow, incredible, I'm glad I showed this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I certainly would.
Speaker 1: Picked up on all that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And the only thing I have is because I've
Speaker 3: done a lot of like reading on it. Brian Forrester,
Speaker 3: he's written a lot of good books, and he lives
Speaker 3: he's lived there for the past, like, you know, twenty
Speaker 3: thirty years. He's really submerged in the culture and stuff.
Speaker 3: He talks about a lot of this stuff in his books.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's on my list of he's somebody I want
Speaker 2: to have on. A previous guest was talking about him
Speaker 2: as well, And you know, that's that's funny because my
Speaker 2: previous guest was on here talking about the trip to
Speaker 2: his expeditions in Peru and there's just all sorts of
Speaker 2: civilizations down there, that we don't know anything about. There's
Speaker 2: there's sites down there that haven't even been touched. This
Speaker 2: guy finding unknown ancient cities and temples all throughout northern
Speaker 2: Peru on that, on that on the coastline. Actually not
Speaker 2: most of this is not far too far inland. And
Speaker 2: there was one that he looked at, and I went
Speaker 2: and checked out some of the local legends there and
Speaker 2: they have their legends traced back to a guy who
Speaker 2: came on a boat who started the civilization from the
Speaker 2: Acoca well in addition to Arakotia.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's not that's that's my thing. It's like
Speaker 2: there's a many verkocha like.
Speaker 4: Uh Kwatsi kettle.
Speaker 3: But both of them guys were said to have come
Speaker 3: out of the water riding uh coming from the east
Speaker 3: and riding how they worded a boat without paddles, and
Speaker 3: that it was a bed of serpents.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh, I wanted to ask you, uh one other thing
Speaker 2: today as we're kind of winding down here. Did you
Speaker 2: I've heard you mentioned on a podcast I think something
Speaker 2: about having a Nephel lance m or or you knew
Speaker 2: somebody who has one.
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, Chief Joseph Riverwin Uh, I loved him
Speaker 3: and uh yeah, yeah, I had him on the show
Speaker 3: and uh he he. I first discovered him through La
Speaker 3: mar Zuli and he's been featured in a lot of
Speaker 3: LA's films and he is a you know, a Native
Speaker 3: American chief and has lots of history and and stories
Speaker 3: about the giants and his people battling these giants and
Speaker 3: stuff and the stone skin giants, and you know, he.
Speaker 4: He's really uh up to.
Speaker 3: Date with all the legends and the history of his
Speaker 3: people and stuff and also other nations.
Speaker 4: And he's really active.
Speaker 3: He's always like he's like an emissary for his tribe
Speaker 3: and goes to represent them in Washington and goes to Israel,
Speaker 3: and he's just really you know, like politically and socially active.
Speaker 3: But on one of LA's documentaries, he went to a
Speaker 3: conference and I think it might've been in Ohio or something,
Speaker 3: but it was a Mounds conference and it was like
Speaker 3: him and Fritz Zimmerman, Dizdar and all these different people
Speaker 3: in chief Joseph went, but there was some guy that
Speaker 3: was just in the the seating. There was just you know,
Speaker 3: he wouldn'tess a speaker or nothing like that. He was
Speaker 3: just a normal guy coming to watch, and while on
Speaker 3: one of the breaks, went to the vendors tables where
Speaker 3: everybody sits and stuff and you know, talks and sells
Speaker 3: their merchant and stuff, and brings this big long thing
Speaker 3: look like a pool stick, wrapped up in his cloth
Speaker 3: and tells La he found this in Michigan next to
Speaker 3: those comperminds, so those ancient comperminds, and he wanted to
Speaker 3: show it to him that he thought it was like
Speaker 3: an ancient bronze sword. And he rolls it out man,
Speaker 3: and it's just like twenty four twenty five pound bronze
Speaker 3: sword looking thing, and they're like, oh my god. You know,
Speaker 3: this thing's so big and huge and this is crazy.
Speaker 3: And Joseph seen it and said that he knew right away.
Speaker 3: He said it wasn't a sword. He said, this was
Speaker 3: a spearhead. He said, because it had the long shaft
Speaker 3: and it had the tapered down and then come back
Speaker 3: out again to where you could lash the road around it.
Speaker 3: And for you know, this thing was I'm just guessing
Speaker 3: off top of my head. I held in my hands.
Speaker 3: It's probably about four four and a half foot long
Speaker 3: and weighed like twenty two to twenty six pounds. I mean,
Speaker 3: this thing was huge and it's heavy, and so it
Speaker 3: was lashed onto like an eight foot.
Speaker 4: Long or more pole. Wow.
Speaker 3: And so he was like, yeah, this is a spear,
Speaker 3: and he says, and it's huge. This would have to
Speaker 3: be wielded by like a fourteen fifteen foot man.
Speaker 4: And he said, and.
Speaker 3: It matches the description of the ones that the stone
Speaker 3: skinned giants used. He said, because in our native traditions
Speaker 3: that these spears were so big and so long that
Speaker 3: they could impale like three braves on this lance. They
Speaker 3: would stab one and skewer them and then keep running
Speaker 3: and keep stabbing. They could get like three people on
Speaker 3: one of these things. And it also matched the description
Speaker 3: of the guy that come to La Marzouli and another
Speaker 3: one that went to Steve Quell, this afghandy giant that
Speaker 3: they found in Kandahar. It said that he had this huge,
Speaker 3: long spear and that he was impaling the soldiers with it.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I found out that he lives like fifteen
Speaker 3: minutes down the road from me, and he agreed to
Speaker 3: meet me in person. So we sit down in person,
Speaker 3: and I brought my cameras and did an interview and
Speaker 3: he brought that spear. So I got to hold this
Speaker 3: thing and get pictures with it and stuff. It was awesome.
Speaker 1: And how big was it? Again?
Speaker 3: The spear it was probably like four or four and
Speaker 3: a half foot long and weighed like, you know, twenty
Speaker 3: two to twenty six pounds. And then you know it
Speaker 3: was attached to like an eight foot long pole.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know when it was used.
Speaker 2: So the okay, so the spirit itself, the spearhead was
Speaker 2: a couple yeah feet.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was like four and a half foot long.
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: And he found that in Michigan.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he said that he was out there hiking in
Speaker 3: those ancient Michigan mines and was just out on a
Speaker 3: hike and he said he saw it laying the ground,
Speaker 3: he said, and like it was maybe like a foot
Speaker 3: of it or something might have been kind of partially buried.
Speaker 3: But he saw the that tapered end just kind of
Speaker 3: hanging out, kind of slanted out of the rocks, and
Speaker 3: said he just walked over and just picked it right up.
Speaker 3: That Joseph's had it sent off. He had to cut
Speaker 3: a piece of it off, he said. I hated to
Speaker 3: do it, he said, but I wanted the analys stunt
Speaker 3: on it, and he had it tested and had the
Speaker 3: purity of the copper tested, had the origins of where
Speaker 3: it come from. Uh, they believe it come from like
Speaker 3: the Middle East or something like that. But he had
Speaker 3: just got back that report and he brought that. He
Speaker 3: read off that report and talked about how old it
Speaker 3: was and everything. In that interview, it was it was
Speaker 3: pretty cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's remarkable that that certainly points to people
Speaker 2: from the Middle East coming over here, possibly traveling up
Speaker 2: the Mississippi in boats and mining copper. Of course, they
Speaker 2: may have been doing more than that.
Speaker 1: There seems to be Uh.
Speaker 2: I think they may have established some civilizations over here too.
Speaker 2: Somebody did I think, you know, yeah, there's that. Well,
Speaker 2: we don't have to go into all this today, but
Speaker 2: Michigan's are very It's just those that whole the Great
Speaker 2: Lakes region is just.
Speaker 1: Fascinating to me.
Speaker 2: I mean, the Wabanzi stone that they found that was
Speaker 2: once up in Chicago. It's in a private collection now,
Speaker 2: but it was at the mouth of one of the
Speaker 2: rivers there in Chicago, where it looks like that they
Speaker 2: were making a stop and doing a sacrifice for safe passage.
Speaker 2: On top of this stone and then getting back in
Speaker 2: their boat and embarking on their journey home. Just little
Speaker 2: things like that. And you know, I think some of
Speaker 2: these cities.
Speaker 3: The patrick Lyff, that big Patrick Cliff they found of
Speaker 3: a Phoenician style ship.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And what's cool is like the copper from that area
Speaker 3: is the purest copper in the world. It's like ninety
Speaker 3: eight point eight percent pure there, and it's the only
Speaker 3: place in the world that they found that pure copper.
Speaker 3: But they are finding this same purity mark copper in Europe,
Speaker 3: in the Middle East, in Africa, India, everywhere. Because the
Speaker 3: Phoenicians and these ancient people were sailing over here and
Speaker 3: back then the water levels were higher. They would just
Speaker 3: come in through Maine, go straight into the Great Lakes
Speaker 3: and start minding the hell out of it. And then
Speaker 3: that they just entered the Mississippi and went on down
Speaker 3: and I think that's how they ended up in South
Speaker 3: America and Mexico and all that. And they were just
Speaker 3: traveling the world and dealing in this uh, and that's
Speaker 3: why you had this Bronze Age explosion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one of the things that I'm most excited
Speaker 2: about is looking more into the history of the Americas,
Speaker 2: specifically North America.
Speaker 1: I think we're only going to.
Speaker 2: Continue to find out more interesting untold little stories and
Speaker 2: artifacts and everything else relics.
Speaker 1: There's there's just.
Speaker 2: This untold story of the lands here, like the ground.
Speaker 2: I'm in Tennessee, Like, I don't know. I think you're probably,
Speaker 2: judging by your accent, you're not far from.
Speaker 4: Me from East Tennessee.
Speaker 3: I'm in the Yeah, I'm right on the border in
Speaker 3: North Carolina and West Virginia.
Speaker 2: Right on, right on, So we're both The ground beneath
Speaker 2: our feet is just loaded with an untold story, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean I think that this copper mind, that's.
Speaker 1: A big piece of the story.
Speaker 4: I do.
Speaker 1: I think there's way more to it.
Speaker 2: I mean, the legends here in Tennessee are incredible. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: a whole that's a whole other podcast.
Speaker 3: Heywood, have you ever read into his stuff?
Speaker 1: Heywood?
Speaker 2: Not?
Speaker 1: What is I knew?
Speaker 4: He go ahead?
Speaker 1: What does he do?
Speaker 3: He was like an ancient you know, historian or not ancient,
Speaker 3: but he was a long time ago. But he was
Speaker 3: from Tennessee, and he was into history and archaeology, and
Speaker 3: he was really into the mountains and the giants and
Speaker 3: stuff and all these works in Tennessee. He's definitely uh
Speaker 3: worth looking into. And if I'm not mistaken, I think
Speaker 3: he even talks about little people.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's what I was about, that little.
Speaker 3: People living amongst the giants and kind of like this culture.
Speaker 2: I think maybe I have come across his name there too,
Speaker 2: because when you said, Heywood, I thought about little people,
Speaker 2: because I've got a whole sack of stuff on the
Speaker 2: little people I got to go through.
Speaker 1: They were there's a mask.
Speaker 2: There was a mass graveyard of little people found in
Speaker 2: White County, Tennessee, and I think some of those remains
Speaker 2: ended up in Knoxville under lock and key at a
Speaker 2: museum or a university there. I have to look back
Speaker 2: through the documents, but I think somebody Rick Osmond, Indiana.
Speaker 2: Rick was on and he was telling me about a
Speaker 2: guy who snuck in there and found these little people's
Speaker 2: bodies still.
Speaker 1: In the I guess it was a museum. I don't remember,
Speaker 1: some sort of a.
Speaker 2: Vault where they got locked away, and and it just
Speaker 2: kind of verified this story. But there's also all this
Speaker 2: documentation about these little people, and it's in the legends,
Speaker 2: it's in the Cherokee legends like crazy man, like where
Speaker 2: you're I don't know if it's right where you're at,
Speaker 2: But East Tennessee, that little Tennessee River that comes out
Speaker 2: of Tellico Lake that goes on up into the mountains there,
Speaker 2: that was loaded with Cherokee cities. There was just I've
Speaker 2: got a whole list of them. There's a seven or
Speaker 2: eight Cherokee cities that were along that river there. When
Speaker 2: they put the dam in in the late seventies, they
Speaker 2: flooded the whole thing.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and they reported the was it The Smithsonian
Speaker 3: had sent some people down there and they were finding
Speaker 3: the remains of what they thought was Egyptian pyramids and temples,
Speaker 3: and then they told them, I, well, we're still going
Speaker 3: to build this dam and flood this valley, so you
Speaker 3: got two weeks to dig and find what you can.
Speaker 3: Then they flooded it.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and yeah, that that whole that whole Teleco
Speaker 2: Lake region is something I'm going to be looking more
Speaker 2: into as soon as I get the chance to do it,
Speaker 2: because I've been researching all their stuff right now. But
Speaker 2: it's on my list and it's fascinating because I looked
Speaker 2: into it enough to find some names of some chiefs
Speaker 2: and some prominent Cherokee people who uh there there's existing
Speaker 2: documentation on and a lot of these guys were uh
Speaker 2: were known to be diplomatic and civilized, and they had
Speaker 2: a system of writing.
Speaker 1: They were taking records cherokeeer.
Speaker 2: So there's documentation and there's all these stories about how
Speaker 2: they they were friends with a lot of European people too.
Speaker 2: They actually it whenever conflict and war would break out,
Speaker 2: some of these Cherokee guys would come in and save
Speaker 2: the skin of their European friends.
Speaker 1: They would they would help them out.
Speaker 2: It's just a whole convoluted history that we're not told about.
Speaker 2: It's literally been buried underwater. And I was reading the
Speaker 2: other day too, just to.
Speaker 1: Tie us in with the little people.
Speaker 2: Well, got a hold of a new book that goes
Speaker 2: into Cherokee legends, and I found that there was a
Speaker 2: tribe somewhere close to where Ashville is today, right there
Speaker 2: off that French Broad River.
Speaker 4: It was a.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. There was a tribe there that had
Speaker 1: a legend of it was.
Speaker 2: A time of war and a time of trouble, and
Speaker 2: they said that the little people came to them and
Speaker 2: offered to help them out, and they said, the little
Speaker 2: people told them, you have to if you want to
Speaker 2: come with us, you have to fast for seven days
Speaker 2: and then you can enter into our kingdom, essentially so,
Speaker 2: and some of the Cherokee people apparently took them up
Speaker 2: on that did the fast, and where they went was
Speaker 2: they went over to Pilot Mountain in North Carolina and
Speaker 2: apparently entered the earth through maybe a portal or something
Speaker 2: in Pilot Mountain, and they lived inside of this mountain
Speaker 2: with these little people. It's fascinating stuff. Now.
Speaker 3: Was Joseph his wife is Cherokee, really, and in that
Speaker 3: interview she talks about some of their legends, and she
Speaker 3: was saying that she thought, and Joseph was in agreeance
Speaker 3: with her, that the Cherokee was one of the lost
Speaker 3: tribes of Israel. And she laid out all kinds of
Speaker 3: cool correlations. And even like their the name, the Cherokee
Speaker 3: name of their creator is Yahweh, and like all their
Speaker 3: old songs and stuff from their original tongue, it's it's
Speaker 3: like an ancient form of Hebrew. And said to how
Speaker 3: they discovered that they went to Israel on some kind
Speaker 3: of diplomatic thing, like with the nations and that they
Speaker 3: were singing some of their native Cherokee songs and that
Speaker 3: there was a messianic Jew there that actually they got
Speaker 3: done singing. Was like, oh, that was so beautiful, and
Speaker 3: you were talking about God and this and that. But
Speaker 3: there was some stuff I couldn't pick up. So was
Speaker 3: you like saying your language and throwing some Hebrew in there?
Speaker 3: And they were like, no, this is this is our language.
Speaker 3: And he was like, well, your name is exactly how
Speaker 3: you know we say you know yahweh and started talking
Speaker 3: about all the correlations with the language and stuff.
Speaker 4: It was pretty cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 2: I've not heard that story before, but it doesn't shock me.
Speaker 1: I've come I'm gonna read I wrote it down here.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be listening to that with Chief Joseph river Wind.
Speaker 3: It's called The Talking Leaves. Okay, it's the name of
Speaker 3: the episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, there was some stuff I came across too.
Speaker 2: It's been a while, but uh, montalk point up there,
Speaker 2: the very tip of Long Island is a very interesting place. Uh.
Speaker 2: It's come up in some of my Nazi uh research
Speaker 2: as well, because I think some of the paper clip
Speaker 2: Nazi's got stationed there at at Montalk there was an
Speaker 2: old base there.
Speaker 1: I'm trying. Yeah, I think it's called Montalk Point.
Speaker 2: But anyway, before all that, there used to be a
Speaker 2: stone out there, some sort of an edifice that apparently
Speaker 2: had Hebrew language etch etchings. And of course that's long gone,
Speaker 2: and you know how this stuff does, it just disappears
Speaker 2: anything that the.
Speaker 3: One it's like a a rounded.
Speaker 4: Rectangle stone.
Speaker 3: It had like a priest or something in the center
Speaker 3: that had all that riding around the edge.
Speaker 1: Maybe I never remember reading.
Speaker 3: Something about that that it was like a I don't
Speaker 3: know if it was a picture or an artist rendition,
Speaker 3: but they were saying that it was a stone they
Speaker 3: found and it had this ancient form of Hebrew and
Speaker 3: that it was basically the Ten Commandments around the edge
Speaker 3: that they had found somewhere here in North America.
Speaker 2: It may have been an obelisk like stone. I think
Speaker 2: if I remember that correctly. There's a couple of these
Speaker 2: stones out there there that that that go missing. There
Speaker 2: was one that was found in West Virginia that had
Speaker 2: Iberian Phoenician on it.
Speaker 3: H Yeah, an Iberian what it called Punic up there.
Speaker 3: America's stone Hinge they found what they called the Bell Stone,
Speaker 3: and that a lot of the solar alignments they have
Speaker 3: lined up with Bell taine, like like like B A
Speaker 3: A L.
Speaker 4: Yeah. And then this stone.
Speaker 3: Barry Fell from Harvard University went up there and studied
Speaker 3: this stone they found, and that it was like a
Speaker 3: form of Iberian punic and like ancient Phoenician writing, and
Speaker 3: on there it said, uh, two bail of the Canaanites
Speaker 3: in whom we make dedication. So it's shown you, you know,
Speaker 3: like the the people that built America's Stone Hinge were
Speaker 3: bail worshiping Phoenicie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it ties right.
Speaker 2: It ties into this conversation we had today as well,
Speaker 2: because I think that the Nephilum kind of got into
Speaker 2: some of those groups, like the Canaanites and the Phoenicians.
Speaker 3: They were, that's who they were.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think that when when Josh and Caleb and the
Speaker 3: boys went in there to clean house and retake the
Speaker 3: Holy Land, the smart ones jumped on their ships and
Speaker 3: got the hell out of there. They even found a
Speaker 3: standing pillar. I can't remember exactly where it's at. It's
Speaker 3: out there in the Mediterranean somewhere. I think it's at
Speaker 3: the tip of Africa. But there was ancient Phoenician riding
Speaker 3: and it said, we the Phoenicians lay claim to this
Speaker 3: land because of Joshua with the Great Robber, who ran
Speaker 3: us out of our lands.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's yeah, it's crazy that that that story keeps
Speaker 2: popping up for me too, this this idea that these
Speaker 2: people were were driven out of the Holy Land, out
Speaker 2: of the Middle East, just uh, they went all over
Speaker 2: And like I'll touch on this too probably when I
Speaker 2: when I when I do your show, I'll wait, I wait,
Speaker 2: I'll wait to touch on it. Then that way we can.
Speaker 2: I can, I can hit it with my hardest punch,
Speaker 2: but I will say those.
Speaker 3: That don't know, we're doing this all over again tomorrow night,
Speaker 3: get my show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2: You know it's funny you said Barry Fell. I think
Speaker 2: that's the guy who snuck into this archive, this museum
Speaker 2: and found these little little people's skeletons. I'm pretty sure
Speaker 2: that's the same guy.
Speaker 4: He probably was. He was like the first Maverick.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's legendary.
Speaker 3: Where's it at right here?
Speaker 1: You know it's wild too. It's like.
Speaker 2: Here in Tennessee, you've got all these these references to
Speaker 2: Greece as well America. But did he write that, yeap,
Speaker 2: Barry Pail, Okay, okay, cool.
Speaker 1: I got to get that book.
Speaker 3: Man, nice America BC. And see he's drawing all these
Speaker 3: travel routes. Yeah, from the Middle East in Africa straight
Speaker 3: into the Americas.
Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna get that book. That's that looks awesome.
Speaker 2: But even like there's there's all this other there's like Greek,
Speaker 2: there's Greek influence over here too that I found specifically
Speaker 2: in Tennessee. You've got in White County, Tennessee, where those
Speaker 2: little people were found.
Speaker 1: The center of that county.
Speaker 2: Is a place called Sparta, and you've got Athens. And
Speaker 2: then you've got here in Nashville. You've got a forty
Speaker 2: eight foot statue of Athena in a in a parking
Speaker 2: on It's like, what, there's this whole untold, untold history here.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I've not heard a.
Speaker 2: Good reason for that for that statue of Athena to
Speaker 2: be here either. They say they put it in there
Speaker 2: in the late eighteen hundreds for the Centennial Expo, which
Speaker 2: is like this World's Fair event that ran for like
Speaker 2: a couple of months, and I know, you.
Speaker 4: Know type thing yeah.
Speaker 2: But it just seems like it's older. And it seems
Speaker 2: it seems like even if they did put that statue
Speaker 2: of Athena in in the eighteen hundreds, it seems like
Speaker 2: they did it for a purpose, as if to say, uh, yeah,
Speaker 2: we're we're in Nashville. We're the place, you know where
Speaker 2: all this old Greek stuff was found old Greek, old
Speaker 2: Greek vases and and all kinds of stuff here. I've
Speaker 2: got an old article that talks about a stark being
Speaker 2: found under in a tunnel under Nashville. So there was
Speaker 2: some sort of an ancient civilization.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I believe in you know, the well they call
Speaker 3: it diffusionism. A lot of people want to say it's
Speaker 3: you know, the ancient people were isolationists that they formed
Speaker 3: their little groups and they were too afraid to get
Speaker 3: out and venture. But look at just people like me
Speaker 3: and you. Yeah, there's people that want to just stick
Speaker 3: to the sixty six book Cannon and believe what their
Speaker 3: pastor tells them. Then there's people like us, man that
Speaker 3: we know there's more out there and we go looking
Speaker 3: for it, and a lot a lot of people are
Speaker 3: built that way. And they were like, I know, everybody
Speaker 3: says the earth is flat and I'm going to fall
Speaker 3: off the edge, but I think I want to find
Speaker 3: out for myself. And those are the ones that discovered
Speaker 3: this whole new world and gold and copper, and and
Speaker 3: those are the ones that become the wealthiest people in
Speaker 3: the world because they were brave enough in adventure enough
Speaker 3: to go out and explore this place. And those people
Speaker 3: are not confined to one people group or one nation.
Speaker 3: I mean, you have people like that and every people group,
Speaker 3: every nation, every time. And those people were traveling the world,
Speaker 3: and that's why you have pyramids throughout the world. That's
Speaker 3: why you have snake imagery throughout the world, why you
Speaker 3: found all.
Speaker 4: This Egyptian stuff out in.
Speaker 3: The Grand Canyon, and that's why the mythos and a
Speaker 3: lot of places are so similar, just different caveats and
Speaker 3: details added because there was people traveling the world and
Speaker 3: sharing their ideas and traditions with other people, and their
Speaker 3: gods came with them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well said, well said. That's a good place to
Speaker 2: end it. That's a good sum up of everything. I
Speaker 2: couldn't have said it better myself. Man, this has been great.
Speaker 2: I've been looking forward to this interview. It didn't disappoint.
Speaker 2: It was a lot of fun. I knew it was
Speaker 2: to be great.
Speaker 1: I mean, i've heard you before.
Speaker 2: I know that you do your homework and that you
Speaker 2: you approach research with a very serious tone.
Speaker 1: I mean you look for answers, That's what I mean by.
Speaker 2: That, and you find them, so I you know, and
Speaker 2: I can definitely appreciate that. And thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2: Tell everybody where they can find you.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, man, and Tim, thank you. I definitely enjoyed
Speaker 3: this conversation because that's what I love.
Speaker 4: I love conversations.
Speaker 3: I love coming on with somebody that's just as passionate
Speaker 3: about history and these things like I am. Because nobody
Speaker 3: has it all figured out. We all have pieces to
Speaker 3: the puzzle. So you know, we might not agree one
Speaker 3: hundred percent with most people, but you still have to
Speaker 3: have dialogue with those people because they might have that
Speaker 3: one missing piece that you need to get your full picture.
Speaker 3: So having this talk and this is a changing of
Speaker 3: puzzle pieces, and I love it.
Speaker 4: So I love having these conversations. And you've.
Speaker 3: Actually taught me some things to night and got me
Speaker 3: wanting to scratch and look into some other stuff. So
Speaker 3: I appreciate that but yeah, guys, if you like this,
Speaker 3: you know conversation we had, I'm doing them every single week.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 3: We released on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, anywhere you can consume content.
Speaker 3: The shows drop Monday at eight pm Eastern Standard time.
Speaker 3: On Monday, we always have a live premiere and a
Speaker 3: live chat. We have the same group of people come
Speaker 3: hang out and we just talk with each other and
Speaker 3: have a really good fellowship.
Speaker 4: And I've kind of.
Speaker 3: Coined the show the Hero's Journey and kind of base
Speaker 3: it off, you know Plato and the allegory of the cave,
Speaker 3: and that's what that you know, that lit up sign
Speaker 3: and my logo is it's the guy standing in there
Speaker 3: behind the flame looking at the shadows on the wall.
Speaker 3: And uh so I asked people, are you ready to
Speaker 3: leave the cave? You know, we have to take this
Speaker 3: hero's journey. You got to go into the unknown, you
Speaker 3: have to slay the dragon, you have to rescue the damsel.
Speaker 3: But you come out on the other end as a hero,
Speaker 3: and you have this boon, this prize of great wealth,
Speaker 3: which is the knowledge in which Jesus says, my people
Speaker 3: suffer from lack of But then your journey's not over
Speaker 3: with you come back to civilization. You share that prize
Speaker 3: of great wealth with others around you, and then you
Speaker 3: start that hero's journey for them. You become the wise
Speaker 3: old man pert that gives the prize of great wealth
Speaker 3: to someone else starting their hero's journey.
Speaker 4: And I just want.
Speaker 3: To get a bunch of people together because I'm on
Speaker 3: the hero's journey too, and we need to lock arms
Speaker 3: and get as many people with us to go and
Speaker 3: have our backs and more eyes you have on something,
Speaker 3: the better off you're going to be at finding your
Speaker 3: puzzle pieces. So come on over hang out with us
Speaker 3: man on the Hero's Journey Prometheus Lens Podcast. All social
Speaker 3: media is all content. Just search us up and you
Speaker 3: should be able to find us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, excellent.
Speaker 2: I'll be leaving a link to Justin's show directly below
Speaker 2: in the description.
Speaker 1: Go check out what he has to offer.
Speaker 2: You won't be disappointed and as always, break the mold,
Speaker 2: conquer the realm, and thanks for listening. Stand Start the Nestons,
Speaker 2: the star Bug style, the Style STI Style. Stand Start