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All right, let's talk some ball. I need someone who
noseball to tell me what's going on with BYU basketball.
A man that is six foot nine, two hundred and
thirty pounds of solid muscle at a Provo High school
and he's the head coach for the Provo High school
basketball team that just won Stateless. Welcome at former bucket
getter himself, Chris Collinsworth, Number forty one on the court,
number one in our hearts today, Chris, how are you
good man? How you doing doing fantastic? Congrats on the
state championship. How does it feel to win another state
title on that floor? Now? As a coach?
Speaker 1: It's awesome. Man. My mind feel better as a coach
than it did as a player.
Speaker 3: That's pretty crazy. The vicarious accomplishments, right, I mean, obviously
you're you're accomplising as a coach, but you're you're you're
you're coaching these guys. You're not playing the game. How
is it? How is it possible that it could be
more satisfying, more exciting to coach a championship rather than
to play for and win a championship.
Speaker 4: I don't know, man, that's a good question. I honestly
didn't even know if I would like coaching, So the
fact that I do as much as I do.
Speaker 1: The one is crazy. But no, it's all about the.
Speaker 4: Guys, Like we have really really good players really good
group of just humans that we get to be around
every day, and there's something special about being able to
put them in positions to succeed and watching it happen.
And you know, I was able to experience state championships
as a player, and so being able to instill them
with the same belief and you know, put things into
play for them and have it come into fruition is
I don't know, it's really surreal.
Speaker 1: That's I've just been telling people. It's crazy.
Speaker 3: So what's the equivalent in this coaching championship achievement to
the twenty seven points you had in the state title
game right in two thousand and seven and you became
the gate Rade Utah Boys Basketball Player of the Year
with that performance. Did you do anything coaching wise that
that parallels the twenty seven points that you put up
in that state title.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's it's really different.
Speaker 4: Like when you're a player, you just you you prepare,
you go out, you play, you do your best, and
the chips kind of you know, it happens. Coaching is
similar in that way, but you're I always tell people, like,
once the game starts, like your goal is just not
to pull a Chris Weber and get two technicals to
interfere with the game like you did.
Speaker 1: You did all your prep work before.
Speaker 4: You're just trying to keep guys confident, trying to keep guys,
you know, put them in the right place and succeed.
Speaker 1: But a lot of that happens.
Speaker 4: Before the game, so when you get into the game,
it's just you trust your guys to go out there
and and play confident and play loose and have you
have fun, like enjoy the game. And and then you know,
we were talking about inputs, like you do everything in
your power that everything you can control, and then the
outcome is the outcome. As a player, like you feel
that more. I feel like like it's like you're out there.
You got to make the shots. So you got to
make the you know, the defensive play, you got to
get the redown. You actually have to sweat and be
in shape. As a coach, I can know, drink him
out and do right before the game, even during the game,
and it doesn't affect the outcome. So I don't know,
it's it's crazy. It's definitely different. It's really fun. It's
fun to compete again because you're definitely competing like you're
out there, You're you're competing your game, you're game planning,
you're trying to put like I said, guys in the
right spot. But I don't know, it's hard to explain.
It's it's different, but it's it's really fun. It's addicting.
Like my poor wife, she probably had no.
Speaker 1: Idea that her husband was going to be a high
school basketball coach. But here we are.
Speaker 3: It's so fun. I mean, you're more than that. You're
an entrepreneur. You do a lot of things. Obviously you've
been able to free up enough time to coach and
and dev into something that you had you know, yeah,
I fear that you that you may not even like it.
Obviously you've fallen in love with the game through coaching again,
which is which is pretty cool to fall back in
love with an activity that that you know, that that
had given you so much and also kind of probably
been a little bit of trial and tribulation with with
some injuries. If everyone you know, not everyone knows your
your path, your trajectory to b Yu and and it
was it was short. It was too short, right with
how much talent you had coming into Brigham and so
to fall back in love with the game. Has that
been a special thing for you?
Speaker 4: It's you know, that is something my wife talks about
a lot. It's been very full circle and it's it
has given basketball a lot of meaning again where there
was definitely, you know, times even years where you're kind
of like, what was the point? Yeah, Like, you know,
what was the point of putting in all that work,
all the time, all that effort.
Speaker 1: It's obviously there was a.
Speaker 4: Ton of benefit, even even with the ending sooner than
I would have liked it too. Like I tell people,
I do tell you all the time when they want
to feel like sorry for me and my guys, how
did I get to play you know, high school basketball
at a high level. The fact I even got to
play for a D one team, even for a minute,
is more than most people can say and like, and
I do, I do, like, I am very grateful for that.
But you know, in saying that, there's times I was like, man,
what what was the point of like going through all that,
having the talent, having the ability, and then having it
end as quickly as it did, and now being able
to coach and take those experiences and being able to
help you know, my guys like it feels way more meaningful,
and so it does feel full circle. And yeah, I
feel very blessed, honestly to be able to have an
experience where I get to love basketball again and I
probably even love it more now than than I did,
especially at the end of my college career where I
was there's just hard, like here's surgery again. Have fun,
and so yeah, super blessed to be able to rekindle
that and to be back at it.
Speaker 3: You take your own experience right to you. You employ
that experience in teaching and mentorship. But I imagine there's
a few principles, a few schemes, a few things drills
that you took from Coach Craig Drury. Give me a
shout out and how impactful he was for you.
Speaker 1: Oh, I mean Coach Dury. When they asked me to
coach three years ago.
Speaker 4: He was someone I talked to immediately and he told
me like, look, if you do it, I'll coach you.
And I was like, well that's the only way I'm
doing I've never before, so you know, with Coach Drury,
and then I have a really good, really good assistance. Actually,
every one of my assistants, two of them played at
BYU and then the rest.
Speaker 1: Of them they all played at PROVO and so they're
very ingrained in the coach Duri culture.
Speaker 4: And that's been a really, really big part of our program,
is just instilling the belief.
Speaker 1: In our guys that they can win.
Speaker 4: Like probi I had won seventeen state titles most of
the state before this year. The one we won this
year was number eighteen. And we talked about that all
the time with our guys, and because when we played
for Coach Druiy, that was the expectation and there wasn't
a day an open gym or a practice that went
by that there wasn't like to talk about how we are,
you know, practicing and playing to be the best, and you.
Speaker 1: Have to believe that you can compete at that level
if you're ever if you're ever going to do that.
Speaker 4: And so from day one that was like, you know,
told guys like, hey, like I'm here to we're here
to win a state championship and if you don't believe that,
let's let us help you believe that.
Speaker 1: And so we brought in.
Speaker 4: You know, not only did we bring in coach Stue
to talk to the guys, we brought in you know,
Mark Durant, Tom Homo, Santiago's Ty Wesley, Mkelly Wesley, all
these people who have who went to Provo, A lot
of them went to BYU, but have who experienced a
ton of success in basketball and and in life and
help them come back and tell these guys like, hey,
like we were great, you can be great too.
Speaker 1: And but that culture for us was with coach Drury,
and coach would tell you it.
Speaker 4: Was with coach Jim Spencer before him, and he won.
He wanted several titles at Provo before coach Durie. And
so yeah, like the drills and everything, we run same defense.
Speaker 1: The jury ran the Jim Spencer.
Speaker 4: R And obviously it gets tweaked because the basketball has changed.
But the biggest takeaway from those from those coaches has
been really like the mindset and how to coach the
mindset and the and the belief that you can be
good and you if you put in the work, you
deserve to be good. And that's one of our mantras
this year is cash the check. Like you write yourself
a check every time you put in the work and
work hard, but you've got to cash it by going
out and putting your best effort and hopefully getting out
an outcome, which is winning the game or winning region
and then winning state. And so it was really fun
at the end of that last game to go say, hey,
we actually you know, you guys wrote this check all summer,
all spring, summer, fall season long.
Speaker 1: Now you get to cash it. So yeah, I learned
a lot.
Speaker 4: From from coach Durie and all hit the players that
played for him that were willing to come back and
talk with us and help him steal that mindset and
that belief.
Speaker 3: Chris Collinsworth, former b YU bucket getter, a big man, uh,
former gig Raide Player of the Year in the great
state of you talking and talking to some ball with
his celebrating his state championship and his accomplishment as a coach.
It is keeping up with the cougar segment. Chris, you've
been on the show before. Give us an update. I
know you're coaching, Okay, you're you're doing great things. Uh.
Most importantly though, how's the fam? How's the other job
that's keeping you up late at night as you operate
your businesses et cetera.
Speaker 1: Family is great. Family is really good.
Speaker 4: I couldn't be doing everything I'm doing with that an
awesome life and awesome kids and works really good.
Speaker 1: Been in a sports.
Speaker 4: Licensing business with with Jimmer actually for about five years
and it's been fun.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: It's we've had a good.
Speaker 4: Year and n I l and that whole market.
Speaker 1: We did it kind of incognito for several years.
Speaker 4: And so it's been fun to have it become, you know,
the main gig if you will.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, life's good. Can't complain love.
Speaker 3: That, man, And uh, what do you think about this? Uh?
This bub League basketball team? Chris? Have you been over
watching any of the games? What's going on with them? Coops?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I watch, I watch. It's tricky, man. Injuries. Injuries
obviously play a big part of it. It's that always
makes things really hard.
Speaker 4: I remember, even as the player getting hurt, like feeling
terrible for the coaching staff and the team and being
like they had.
Speaker 1: This whole his whole roster was.
Speaker 4: Assembled with me and mind game plans plays base line
out of bounds, sideline out of bounds, defensive schemes like
so when you lose a guy and two guys and
three guys and four guys, like all the planning and
prep that you know, Coach Young and the staff will put.
Speaker 1: In like they got to change, didn't change on the fly,
So that's that's not fun. I don't envy them at all.
Speaker 4: From that perspective, and I think they're obviously handling it
well and then losing is not fun. And to echo
what you know Coach Young said after last game is
he's just trying to get his guys to have confidence
and believe again. And I think, I honestly think that's
a huge part of this. Like I was just looking
at the box score we had. We had several dudes
who played over ten minutes last night.
Speaker 1: They didn't even shoot the ball once. And I'm not
saying they had shots, they turned down shots, but there's.
Speaker 4: Clearly a belief issue amongst other things. And I agree
with Coach Young, it's like this thing in the season
right now, like the most important thing is getting some
guys to go out and truly believe that they.
Speaker 1: Can win and give it their all. And you can
see that's missing.
Speaker 4: Like you watch a game and the efforts low, which
makes things like the fundamentals look like they're not. Their
confidence is low, which again makes you know, very things
that look very simple or should be very simple, they
also look hard or look look like we don't know
what we're doing. And so how do you get that
back in you know, a short period of time before
Texas Tech and into the Big twelve tournament. I don't know,
and I'm grateful I'm not being tasked.
Speaker 1: To figure that out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, belief is interesting, man, obviously, like preparation,
uh is is a key oponent, key component too to
having that confidence right. But when you when you're on
kind of like a negative spiral, it's hard to kind
of pull yourself out from that, and especially I think
the dynamics of of playing alongside stars. You know, you
want to fill your role right, Like talk to Kyle
a lot about this. Like, you know, Kyle ear Lyon
in his career, he's a rebounder defender and you know,
didn't get many opportunities to get shots up and he's
found his role right eventually, though, like you, you got
to be able to step up and make shots when
when when blitzes come and and ultimately double teams come
and they got to kick it to you, et cetera.
And and I don't I don't know you know where
you know where the confidence is. I think Alexi's gained
some confidence with more minutes. He's definitely shut. He's got
a pure stroke. Hadeem looked a little bit out of
sorts in his first start, but he has been a
bit of an energizer bunny in the past with rebounding
and defense. Maybe that was the the lights were too bright.
You know where do you turn right now? You know,
aj and and Rob typically can get buckets, but they
they've been really forced recently. They're not coming easy whatsoever.
It is really forced, and it is it is like
just arduous to watch these guys try to score some
time with the physicality of the Big twelve, They're contested
shots every single time. Nothing's coming easy offensively.
Speaker 1: Yeah, everything looks sticky, everything looks forced.
Speaker 4: Its hard, like you said, and you know, to echo
like with Kyle what you're saying about Kyle, it's true,
like he did a really good job, you know, his
freshman year coming in and filling a role, and sophomore
year's role expanded and then obviously junior and senior year.
Speaker 1: And that's a lot of us credit to.
Speaker 4: Like Coach Rose and coach Rice, coach Lacombe, coach nash
If coach Wardenberg, shout out to all those guys. But
we I feel like we knew who we were as
a team. There was an identity in place with that.
Coach Rose did a good job, Like we knew what
we wanted to do, so it was easier to like
know what your input into that system was. And like
you look at these really good teams, you know the Gonzagas,
Houston teams, even like Arizona teams that have.
Speaker 1: Been good and have been good for a long time.
Speaker 4: Like they can get guys and plug and played because
the team's identity and the expectation for the team, it
doesn't change game to game. It doesn't even change like
year to you a Houston, you know exactly who Houston's
going to be. And so when guys do get thrown
out there, like they know what they're the expectation is
for them, they know the role they're filling. And I
feel like right now we're missing that with this team,
Like I don't think we know who we are going
to be game to game, even half to half, and
so I think it's hard for a guy to come
in on limited minutes and know what their expectation actually is. Like,
if you're Houston on defense, you're blissing a ball screen.
If you're the guy that's on the backside, you know
how you got to rotate, you know what the efforts
expected to do that, and you can go and fill
that side of the ball really, really, like easily, because
everyone on the team is expected to do and it
is expected to do a certain way. And yeah, when
you watch like it feels like we're missing some of that.
Speaker 1: And so it is.
Speaker 4: Harder for role players to come in and magnify their
role because I think they're guessing, like, you know, okay,
aj is going to shoot it, but what does that
mean for me? And then defensively, it's like what is
my role defensively?
Speaker 1: Like? And again you lose Ritchie and.
Speaker 4: I think that that problem is magnified for sure. But yeah,
this kind of leaning back into the Kyle on Coach Rose, Like,
Kyle did a really good.
Speaker 1: Job of.
Speaker 4: Stepping in every year, and his role obviously got bigger,
went from being a true freshman starter to the best
player on the team. But we always knew what was
expected and we had that style of play. Like the
truth is, we committed to by U for that style
of play, and when we were when I was getting recruited,
like all the coaches that were recruiting me, like I
was looking at you know, did I want to go
play for Tony Bennett at Virginia and play a pack
line defense and to slow it down offense? Or did
I want to play for Coach Rose and play like
a faster, you know, a much faster offense, get into transitions,
get more shots up type of scheme.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, that's.
Speaker 4: My take kind of on our team right now is
I don't feel like we know who we are and
so it's harder for guys to step in and step up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you hope they can find the identity. They can
they can circle back and and find something. And in
what are the silver linings right now? Right when you've
lost so many games, you have the ceiling the potential
of Iowa State. Do you just go back and you
watch highlights just like to let's watch it all, like, look, guys,
we're a good basketball team. Let's watch ourselves like you
know what I mean, Like, how do you instill confidence
once again and instill you know, that swagger when you're
so down Frauden right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker 4: I mean I was watching Wisconsin highlights earlier in the season,
obviously a very different team, but it did give me
confidence and who we can be, and so I think
there is a lot of that I think you're watching,
Like I think the film session today is not what
it was probably two weeks ago, and you're not probably
not hashing over Obviously you need to talk about where
we can improve, because there's a lot we can improve on.
But the perspective is like, you guys are D one players.
They're getting paid like you're really really good. Let's help
you figure that out.
Speaker 1: And I even think the.
Speaker 4: Expectation internally of like, hey, you know, we're a top
five team in the country, Like, I think you have
to coach to that differently and relieve yourself of a
lot of that pressure.
Speaker 1: And I think even coach young like he has an opportunity.
Speaker 4: To have some freedom and creativity on both sides of
the ball to try to figure out what's working.
Speaker 1: And you can see that happening in these games.
Speaker 4: But hopefully even that like helps bring some confidence where
it's like, hey, we can be dangerous because nothing is
really expected of us right now. So let's try some
different things and just do it with maximum effort. And
that would be the one thing that I would coach
really hard, is like if you're gonna be on the floor,
like you gotta freaking give it everything you have inside
this framework and let's see what happens.
Speaker 3: Yeah, effort makes up for a lot of things last night, though,
Like as a as a former player, as a basketball
state champion coach, Man, you've been around the game for
a long time. I know it giveth and it taketh
away so many lessons, learn, so much experience, right are
you Are you most frustrated with like like just poor
lazy passing at the top of the key? Are you
more frustrated when you're watching like if the ball getting
sticky offensively and maybe bad or four shots? Or do
you get more frustrated with like just wide open like
uncontested shots, bad defense? Like where where do you find
you get most frustrated as a player and like a
coach watching basketball last night? Specifically?
Speaker 4: Yeah, for me, it's it's usually I get frustrated around
like effort, around the.
Speaker 1: Basic like basketball.
Speaker 4: You can make basketball really complicated, but at its core,
like basketball is a simple sport and a big part
of that is like bringing maximum effort inside your role.
And so like the two things are frustrating. You're like
ones like do these guys know their role like when
they go out there? And I think they do. And
then too it's like, then why aren't they giving it
everything they have? You know with those limited those limited
minutes and for some of them who are now getting
much more expanded minutes, it's like you've got to bring
it like you're you're in the Big twelve.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that like to them mentally they aren't.
Speaker 4: This is where the confidence things come in, Like they
might be giving their full effort, but they're just not confidence.
It doesn't look like it like it's hard. It's hard
to look like Houston with their effort if you don't
have the.
Speaker 1: Confidence that Houston has. And so that's where I.
Speaker 4: Think what Coach Young said yesterday it was just so true,
like they've got to get confident.
Speaker 1: If they can, they can figure out how to get confident.
Speaker 4: In a couple of days, I think that what we
perceive as effort will look like it's higher. But yeah,
that would be the thing that that is The thing
that frustrates me is like, let's let's go out there,
do your job and do it with maxim effort and
let's see, let's see what happens.
Speaker 1: But when guys are nonchalant like I was. I loved
Mark Durrant's X.
Speaker 4: Posts recently about just the defensive breakdowns, just the very
basic I love how I didn't trying to blast anyone.
He wasn't trying to know call people out, but as
fans like, as we watched that, like he gave some
really good insight onto.
Speaker 1: Just some very basic stuff.
Speaker 4: You know, switching, we have Rob Wright going underscreens four
feet off the three point line and we're wondering why guys.
Speaker 1: Are getting wide open shots.
Speaker 4: You know, we have simple cross simple cross screens there.
I guess it's flex action that's just happening, and we
don't know if we're switching or not switching. And a
lot of that it starts with communication, and communication is
a form of effort.
Speaker 1: And it's like if two dudes can't talk to each other,
they are not giving effort.
Speaker 4: We're not going to handle that screen right, And that's
where it's like, are we switching? Those screens are we
not switching those screens, like what is what's the expectation
and the role for the guys out there?
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's that's where for me a lot of
the frustration comes. It's just like the very stuff that
should should. I know, it's not basic.
Speaker 4: Like again, like I'm not trying to like blast anyone
because when you're out there like it being this goes
back to the difference of being a coach and being
a player.
Speaker 1: Right, Like you're.
Speaker 4: Being a coach, it's easy to like why do you
handle that cross screen right where it's a player, It's
like there's a thousand things going on, and so yeah,
I would just like to like leave a game. So
like we gave everything, like our input into the game
was at a maximum level, and then if the output
is we lost.
Speaker 1: I can deal with that.
Speaker 4: But if our input into that game doesn't it feels wrong,
which it has, it's like, no wonder we lost. And
that's that's where I get like a sour taste in
my mouth.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like Okay, let me ask you this because this
is a schematic thing. I think kind of a schematic
based question and like kind of a reality of a
situation like Bai's defense. It's not good, right, especially for
it's going against some of the best teams in the country, Like,
you know, these are really good, these are really talented teams.
So it's like it's exacerbated, right because it's just bad
defense then turns into like horrible defensees you're going against
some really good teams. Is it Is it more simplistic?
Is it better to like go forward and try to
rep out these actions that you're getting in a like
man de man defense, right, and work on your communication
with like a little bit of time here leading up
to Big twelve tournament and the NCAA tournament, you're just
trying to wrap it out and work on communication and
practice and maybe through walkthroughs and all those things. Or
is it better just to like simplify and be like, hey,
we're just running zone. We're gonna switch up between a
one through one and a two three, conserve energy and
hope that we can just outshoot out, outscore teams on
the other side of the ball, which we're we're honestly
pretty good at. We've been really good, we've been elite
at scoring. Give me your thoughts on that.
Speaker 4: No, that's a fantastic question then a good coaching philosophy.
Speaker 1: Question as well. And my take on that is, I
would this goes.
Speaker 4: Into Houston, Like Houston a long time ago picked what
they were going to be really good at on the
defensive side of the ball, and they don't adjust they do,
they're going to be better at They're going to be
better at what they do than you are scouting, scouting
and adjusting based on what they do.
Speaker 1: Right. And I was watching one of.
Speaker 4: Their games earlier in the year and they were they
were up one against Auburn I believe it was, and
they were still trapping ball screens, leaving leaving guys can
test it up one And I was like, holy cow,
Like that feels that feels like the wrong time to
do that. But guess what they got to stop and
they won the game.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that was a.
Speaker 4: Test to me because that's like our philosophy, like we run,
we run one defense in the end, we have like
a little bit of adjustments out of it based on
like scenarios and situations, but like we want to be
really really good at us And so that's something that
I would love to see, boy you do is get
an identity and get really good at it and how
do you do that in a couple of days.
Speaker 1: I don't know, So to answer your.
Speaker 4: Question directly, I would I would like to see them
clean up up some of the fundamentals and lean into them,
versus being like we're just gonna, you know, throw it
all away and sit back in a two three. But hey,
I mean, if they are going to sit back into
two three, let's be good at it. Let's just let's
let's just clean that up or go Syracuse.
Speaker 1: And get really good at a one three one like,
and again, it's hard. It's really hard being a coach.
Speaker 4: I I hate I hate talking about what other coaches
are doing well or wrong because it feels like I
know how hard it is, and so like, hopefully none
of this is taken as.
Speaker 1: Like criticism towards like the current staff, but.
Speaker 4: It's like, I don't, I don't know the answer. It's
it's hard, But I do think like if guys can
get confident and maybe we simplify some things and they
can go out and give maximum effort, those like we
could have.
Speaker 1: Hopefully hopefully a different result.
Speaker 4: But yeah, it all comes back to guys gotta be confident,
play hard, Like I know, that's the most like fifth
grade level thing you could say, but it's just true.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I agree with you there wholeheartedly. And like, look,
there's only the guys in that locker room, and only
the coaches know, you know all the details. Right, So
when Hadembu gets the start, there's a reason, there's rhyme
and reason for that. But why didn't he get a
start until that time? Well we may have seen the
reason why because he just he's more of an energizer
guy coming off the bench. It just fits better. And
he just in the starting role just he seemed a
little bit lost out there. Why didn't Alexi Costick maybe
get more pt or leon in the season and build
confidence so he could be a shooter and a score
and space the floor, like you know, if that would
have happened in Xlray letter, maybe he have more confidence now.
But you know, Richie, Richie was getting a lot of minutes.
Other guy, Cannard Davis was the guy that was supposed
to be three and D and bem what mag was
last year and like and he wasn't necessarily he didn't,
he didn't. It didn't pan out. He was like almost anyway,
he was almost a forty percent shooter from three point
line last. Anyway, Chris, I've learned something from you. I
always appreciate talking ball with you. Glad you're doing well.
Congratulations on the state championship. And uh, I always appreciate
our time to get the man. Thanks for hopping on today, Bro,
And let's get you into a suit over at Odeon Men'swear. Bro,
you're gonna need a new game day suit. Are you
a suit guy for game day?
Speaker 1: I'm not. Ah, you couldn't catch me dead coaching in
a suit.
Speaker 3: But Bro, I'm telling you, Okay, okay, make a deal
with me. Okay, if you go on, I'm gonna get
you an Odeon Men's Worth suit. It's a sports performance suit.
It's fantastic. I'm gonna get you one of these. I'm
gonna get you hooked up with the CEO. You're gonna
be so comfortable in this thing you may want to
wear it for a game time. All I'm saying is
I'm just.
Speaker 1: Saying sounds good. I'll take it.
Speaker 3: Let's go, buddy, I'll get you do all. I appreciate you, man,
Thanks so much, Chris. All right, guys, we're gonna go
to break we'll have Will Farron on