WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.600 --> 00:00:23.160 Thanks easing, Welcome to podcasts UFO and Martin willis your 2 00:00:23.160 --> 00:00:27.559 host tonight's live show. It's a real treat for myself 3 00:00:27.600 --> 00:00:30.000 and hopefully all of you out there, because we're going 4 00:00:30.039 --> 00:00:33.000 to be joined by the uf the legendary UFO researchers, 5 00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:36.320 Jaques Vala. He's going to be discussing his latest book, 6 00:00:36.840 --> 00:00:41.960 Forbidden Science seven and it's basically Jacques's final volume of 7 00:00:42.039 --> 00:00:46.159 personal journals covering the extraordinary period between twenty twenty and 8 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:49.200 twenty twenty five. And we did have COVID during that 9 00:00:49.320 --> 00:00:54.479 time as well, so when this also discusses when the 10 00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:59.840 UFO topic moved to the congressional hearings, government discussion, but 11 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:04.359 it's still a very complex, perplex issue. We're going to 12 00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:07.640 be talking about all that, and I feel fortunate to 13 00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:09.760 say this is the fourth interview that I've had with 14 00:01:09.799 --> 00:01:12.799 Shock over the past fifteen years. I feel he's a 15 00:01:12.879 --> 00:01:18.239 fine and highly respected, groundbreaking person in this topic and 16 00:01:18.280 --> 00:01:22.760 he's helped move the needle for decades, and I hope 17 00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:25.040 that a lot of people out there have read some 18 00:01:25.159 --> 00:01:28.640 of his books. There's some amazing books that he's written 19 00:01:28.799 --> 00:01:31.359 over the years, and we're going to be talking about 20 00:01:31.400 --> 00:01:34.760 his reflections on that too as we go along here today. 21 00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:37.439 So next week, just a couple of things. Next Tuesday 22 00:01:37.439 --> 00:01:40.959 at eight pm Eastern, my guest will be Scott Geerin. 23 00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:43.599 He's the author of Hiding in Plain Sight. It's a 24 00:01:43.599 --> 00:01:48.239 book about unidentified phenomenon in our atmosphere with lots of pictures. 25 00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:51.439 As I mentioned last week, Scott as someone who fell 26 00:01:51.879 --> 00:01:55.200 three thousand feet when his parachute was basically ruined as 27 00:01:55.200 --> 00:01:58.239 canopy was ruined, and hit the ground at one hundred 28 00:01:58.280 --> 00:02:00.799 miles an hour and lived to talk about amazing person. 29 00:02:01.359 --> 00:02:04.719 So next Thursday, I will be at the Moufon Symposium, 30 00:02:04.959 --> 00:02:07.200 but I'll still have our regular Thursday show at a 31 00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:11.199 pm Eastern, and I'll be joined by x the excellent 32 00:02:11.360 --> 00:02:15.599 Australian UFO researcher Grant Levic. That's a pre recorded show, 33 00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:18.840 had to pre record because of the time difference. So 34 00:02:19.080 --> 00:02:22.000 if you are attending the MoveOn Symposium, please come over 35 00:02:22.039 --> 00:02:22.560 and say hello. 36 00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:24.159 I'll be all over the place. 37 00:02:24.199 --> 00:02:27.000 I'll be running a panel and different things there behind 38 00:02:27.039 --> 00:02:29.319 the scenes, but you can reach out to me at 39 00:02:29.319 --> 00:02:34.479 my contact information pod Martinette PODCASTUFO dot com. I'm really 40 00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:37.479 excited to meet Alex Dietrich and a number of other people. 41 00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:39.759 Classfond from Sweden. It's going to be there. 42 00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:42.560 I've been talking to him for years, so I'm excited 43 00:02:42.599 --> 00:02:44.879 to see him as well. Be sure to check out 44 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:50.360 PODCASTUFO dot com for this week's really amazing blog. Another 45 00:02:50.400 --> 00:02:55.199 one by UFO history buff Charles Lear been five years 46 00:02:55.199 --> 00:02:58.240 now he's been writing for us. This one's titled in 47 00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:02.479 nineteen sixty four UFO Humanoid Report, and that happened on 48 00:03:02.599 --> 00:03:06.840 April twenty fourth, nineteen sixty four with a New York farmer, 49 00:03:06.919 --> 00:03:10.439 Gary Wilcox, and it had the egg shaped craft just 50 00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:14.319 like Ronnie's and morrisaw the same year, four foot tall humanoids, 51 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:18.240 same thing, but he did claim that they claimed that 52 00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:21.919 they were from Mars, which I think is pretty interesting. 53 00:03:22.479 --> 00:03:24.400 All right, so it's time to bring our guests in. 54 00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:27.479 Welcome to the show, Jacques. So good to have you here. 55 00:03:28.400 --> 00:03:32.439 Thank you for inviting me. Indeed, this is a unique time. 56 00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:37.240 You mentioned we've done this show before, but this is 57 00:03:37.280 --> 00:03:42.000 the first time we do it. As the subject becomes official, 58 00:03:42.639 --> 00:03:49.000 it's officially recognized that the phenomenon is real, so it's new. 59 00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:50.280 It's a new era. 60 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:55.520 Yes, I know, you've seen all these years that you've 61 00:03:55.560 --> 00:03:59.759 done research, You've seen all the seemingly steps forward and 62 00:03:59.800 --> 00:04:00.840 then steps back. 63 00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:03.080 A lot of people weren't around. 64 00:04:02.840 --> 00:04:05.560 That watch the show, listen to the show that saw 65 00:04:05.560 --> 00:04:09.960 things as recently as the roswell slides and things like that, 66 00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:12.280 things the goof ops that are made along the way 67 00:04:12.319 --> 00:04:14.879 that has people pointing fingers, don't listen to us type 68 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:17.480 of thing. And now it seems like things are more 69 00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:20.639 serious than ever. And so I know we're going to 70 00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:22.800 be talking about your book, but also I want to 71 00:04:22.839 --> 00:04:25.519 ask you questions about all your journey along the way. 72 00:04:25.959 --> 00:04:28.680 But so did I read somewhere where it was nineteen 73 00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:31.519 fifty seven or is that when you had your encounter 74 00:04:31.800 --> 00:04:32.639 that you had. 75 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:39.000 It was earlier than that. It was about nineteen fifty 76 00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:43.399 five or so, in close to Perris. I wouldn't call 77 00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:47.920 it an encounter because the object was maybe hol for 78 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:53.560 Kiddle Miller away in the sky. But this was very clear. 79 00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:56.480 This was in the middle of the afternoon, the blue sky. 80 00:04:57.399 --> 00:05:00.040 I was with Letty mother, who had seen it f 81 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:05.360 This was during the summer holiday and she was just 82 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:09.720 working in the garden and I joined her. There was 83 00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:14.120 an object in the sky, which I can only describe 84 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:18.680 as a as an oval or disk scene on the 85 00:05:18.839 --> 00:05:24.160 side with a small dome on top, clear dome. It 86 00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:32.839 was very dispaintingous. Guy was not moving and it lasted 87 00:05:32.879 --> 00:05:36.759 a number of minutes. I think I don't have a 88 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:42.720 clear memory of what I did afterwards. I probably went 89 00:05:42.759 --> 00:05:46.560 back into her house to try to get my father's attention, 90 00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:52.120 was working on something inside. The next day I spoke 91 00:05:52.199 --> 00:05:56.120 to a friend of mine from home from the school, 92 00:05:56.879 --> 00:06:00.240 and he had seen it from his house, which which 93 00:06:00.279 --> 00:06:05.680 was about another half kilmet up the hill from us, 94 00:06:06.120 --> 00:06:09.639 and he had binoculars and he looked at it. He 95 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:12.879 had time to go get his binoculars, and I got 96 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:17.519 him to draw it, and what he drew was essentially 97 00:06:17.639 --> 00:06:20.639 what I had seen, three witnesses at the same time. 98 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:26.079 Perfect weather, blue sky, middle of summer. What can go wrong? 99 00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:29.600 What can go wrong? Is nobody had any idea what 100 00:06:29.639 --> 00:06:36.279 it was. My father, who had a long military experience 101 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:40.240 he was a judge, but he had been in the war, 102 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:47.079 said there are new aircraft types being tested and being deployed. 103 00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:52.000 Those were the early days of the jet aircraft of 104 00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:55.800 all kinds. Then he said, maybe this is a type 105 00:06:55.920 --> 00:07:00.519 of a new type of aircraft. So I took that advice. 106 00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:07.439 We never reported it, and I wasn't really very interesting. 107 00:07:08.199 --> 00:07:11.839 I followed the subject, it was in the prence, but 108 00:07:12.199 --> 00:07:15.759 I wasn't thinking of doing any kind of research about 109 00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:20.040 it until my first job a few years later when 110 00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:24.519 I graduated from the Sorbonne and my first job was 111 00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:30.240 at Parish Observatory and we were getting letters from the public, 112 00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:35.199 and being an official organization, we had to respond to 113 00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:38.800 the public, and so occasionally I would call these people 114 00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:42.240 on the phone to really understand what he had seen, 115 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:47.240 and that convinced me that there were in fact usos 116 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:51.480 and it restarted my home interest in it. And then 117 00:07:51.959 --> 00:07:56.920 being within the French government, I had access to some 118 00:07:57.079 --> 00:08:02.519 of the military reports from before from the fourties in 119 00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:07.079 the early fifties, and also the Kilt reports from within 120 00:08:07.160 --> 00:08:13.480 the astronomical community, which will not published. So that's when 121 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:19.399 I selled to compile in a catalog just to do 122 00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:23.839 elementary statistics, and over the years that has grown up 123 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:28.839 into a very upset of catalogs, actually a data warehouse 124 00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:34.480 that is being studied right now by different people. 125 00:08:36.200 --> 00:08:39.799 Nice, wow, I've you just look at your bookcase is 126 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:43.600 very intriguing. That's and when I was there, it was 127 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:46.279 just amazed at how many books you have, what a 128 00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:49.559 collection and a very interesting and the books you've written 129 00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:54.120 Passport to Magonia, it's just that's like a legendary book 130 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:58.320 at this point. But I'm going to just try to 131 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:00.840 throw you a few different questions, maybe no one's ever 132 00:09:00.919 --> 00:09:04.840 asked you before. If you could go back to writing that, 133 00:09:05.080 --> 00:09:11.159 would you change anything? Or if you have the knowledge 134 00:09:11.159 --> 00:09:15.120 that you have today and you could go back and 135 00:09:15.320 --> 00:09:18.120 change something in that book, would you change anything in 136 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:21.679 that in Passport? 137 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:26.080 In fact, I've been working for many years where they 138 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:32.679 are remarkable research in Spain is English mers, but he 139 00:09:33.080 --> 00:09:37.759 works in Spain named Chris Obek. And oh yes, I've 140 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:44.480 published a collection of cases from eight scholed Wonders in 141 00:09:44.559 --> 00:09:48.200 the Sky and it was published in England and in 142 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:54.159 the US and translated into several languages, especially German and French. 143 00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:58.759 And that catalog is a number of cases from all 144 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:04.000 of the history. Yes, I've gone back into those were 145 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:09.879 not just legends. There were observations that for one reason 146 00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:14.240 or another, socially or in terms of the breach of 147 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:21.200 religious traditions, people could not really talk about the reality 148 00:10:21.279 --> 00:10:24.720 of way it's what they had seen, and it became 149 00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:29.440 a fairy tale. It became a story that the children remembered. 150 00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:35.600 And when you look back at the archives and the correspondence, 151 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:38.759 which thanks to the web, we can now do a 152 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:43.360 lot better. And we continued to find those original documents 153 00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:49.919 that match those sightings, and that includes spheres, yellow shares 154 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:54.480 or white spares of up to three feet in diameter 155 00:10:55.279 --> 00:11:01.279 going through the countryside, not in connection with name or anything. 156 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:06.159 So those I'm not a normal physical phenomena that we know, 157 00:11:06.960 --> 00:11:10.159 but they match what people are reporting today and this 158 00:11:10.279 --> 00:11:15.080 goes back to the fifteenth or sixteenth century, okay in Europe. 159 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:17.519 And then we had Yeah, that's right. 160 00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:20.360 I was lucky enough to have Chris on and I 161 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:25.080 really fascinated about anything historical anyway, and so that that 162 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:27.399 was a really nice show to have him on it. 163 00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:32.200 I was involved in some type of chat with. 164 00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:34.519 All the information coming in all the time, and boy, 165 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:37.039 there's a lot of research, a lot of people really 166 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:39.639 doing a lot of heavy duty research on the early 167 00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:40.600 documents and things. 168 00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:42.840 It was very nice. Yeah. 169 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:48.960 Network that included people in Russia. He still do of course, 170 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:53.159 people in Spain and France and Latin American. So so 171 00:11:53.639 --> 00:11:59.240 we had a network of about fifteen active researchers and 172 00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:02.679 it took us full ten years to write that book. 173 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:06.480 Wow, wow, I believe it. Oh, by the way, here's 174 00:12:06.519 --> 00:12:09.000 your book. Thank you for sending it along. Thank you 175 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:10.399 and very nice. 176 00:12:10.639 --> 00:12:13.720 And one of the things I think of is, I 177 00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:17.399 know that in this book there's mentions of consciousness and 178 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:18.440 the connection there. 179 00:12:18.519 --> 00:12:20.159 And I recently, just a. 180 00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:22.960 Couple of days ago, two days ago, I had a 181 00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:26.559 gentleman on and he came up with a you know 182 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:30.600 how everyone just has different ideas, and it's really worth 183 00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:33.519 listening to these different ideas of what the phenomenon may be, 184 00:12:33.799 --> 00:12:38.240 I believe, And he had something that I had never 185 00:12:38.279 --> 00:12:42.159 heard before. And he's a philosopher, but he said something 186 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:45.320 along the lines where it could be like an energy 187 00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:50.240 that's always been here, that presents itself and then goes 188 00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:51.519 away type of thing. 189 00:12:51.559 --> 00:12:54.360 And I thought that was a novel idea. 190 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:57.720 I hadn't heard that one previous because I'm always trying 191 00:12:57.720 --> 00:13:00.519 to understand the consciousness connection type of thing. 192 00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:04.759 So what your thoughts are on that. 193 00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:09.000 There is an energy? Of course, that's what we see 194 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:15.240 it manifesting as light in the electromegating spectrum, so that's 195 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:18.720 an energy. It's also an energy in the sense that 196 00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:25.240 it leaves traces in the grow. He must mean something 197 00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:30.879 at a different level of an energy, like what we 198 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:37.200 call the life energy, which we don't really define very clearly, 199 00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:43.840 but it's what animates us. Then of course it's a 200 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:50.080 mix of different functions it in that sense. Does he 201 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:53.759 mean we're conscious energy or just a physical energy? But 202 00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:56.559 physical energy, we have a lot of it around. 203 00:13:58.519 --> 00:13:59.720 I believe what he said. 204 00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:02.720 I'd be glad to send you more of what's his 205 00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:05.600 ideas were. And the one thing that I really liked 206 00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:08.600 about him he says, I'm probably wrong, but I like 207 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:11.000 when people talk that way instead of this is the 208 00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:14.080 way it is. But basically that it was. It's kind 209 00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:18.120 of something that's always been here, that has a high intelligence, 210 00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:23.159 that can manifest and come into our spectrum for a moment, 211 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:26.120 and then he thinks that some of the phenomena may 212 00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:27.919 be something along those lines. 213 00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:31.360 Well, there is a lot of science fiction for the 214 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:36.159 last fifty years or more about that of there is 215 00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:39.600 a book called The Black Cloud. But if you were 216 00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:45.639 a black cloud of ionized matter, ionized energy, and drifting 217 00:14:45.879 --> 00:14:49.159 through space, and you will need to look like a 218 00:14:49.279 --> 00:14:54.200 folksmagen who would stop you there is The book was 219 00:14:54.200 --> 00:15:00.480 written by a prominent English astronomer as science fiction, saying, 220 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:03.679 if you have a lot of energy, you can manifest 221 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:07.919 in any form you want. The problem with usos is 222 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:11.960 when they leave traces, we can measure they leave and 223 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:17.879 as I've looked a lot at energy related to different cases, 224 00:15:17.960 --> 00:15:21.600 and so has doctor Heinex, so have many of our 225 00:15:21.639 --> 00:15:25.559 colleagues in the field, because that's what you can measure. 226 00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:30.360 We have we have instruments that measure energy, they especially 227 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:35.039 light energy, and then we can measure pressure on the ground, 228 00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:38.919 and then we can measure what energy it takes to, 229 00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:43.720 for example, kill a planet that might be an about 230 00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:47.960 when we know the dimensions, and in many cases we do. 231 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:52.080 Now we've made a lot of progress over fifty years, 232 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:57.159 both in methodology and in actual data. So that's a 233 00:15:57.320 --> 00:16:01.320 body of research that we're passing on to the next 234 00:16:01.399 --> 00:16:06.600 generation and I'm delighted to see that. So my role 235 00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:10.200 in the future, that's why I called this book final 236 00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:13.120 with God. I see my role in the future as 237 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:18.440 being a resource to the new researchers coming into a 238 00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:24.200 field well, hopefully with some basis in science or research 239 00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:30.120 or engineering where they can, they don't have to redo 240 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:34.559 the road that we traveled in a long further now 241 00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:39.879 seventy years and fortunate to see this day when things 242 00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:44.600 have become open. I've been asked to rejoin the scientific 243 00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:50.360 board of the French Space Committee the CNEES, which is 244 00:16:50.840 --> 00:16:54.360 a space agency in France, or we'll be spending more 245 00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:59.240 time in Europe working with my colleagues there. 246 00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:01.759 Nice, very nice. 247 00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:04.960 Now there are some long time listeners here that a 248 00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:07.599 few of them have posted questions, so I'm just going 249 00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:09.480 to put them up. We can get to them now 250 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:13.880 and then through throughout this So do abduction scenarios reflect 251 00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:18.440 the phenomenon's deceptive nature or the limits of human perception? 252 00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:20.599 Translating the truly anomalous? 253 00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:27.400 The problem with abductions, and of course I've followed that. 254 00:17:28.279 --> 00:17:32.440 I think it's from the beginning until the Very and 255 00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:38.279 Bowley Hill case, I wasn't and I'm not a psychologist, 256 00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:42.720 I'm not a psychiatrist so on, but I consulted with them. 257 00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:48.400 Then the conclusion was that this seemed just completely out 258 00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:53.039 of the range of things people as dreams, people have 259 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:57.319 dreams that people get up in the middle of the night, 260 00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:00.279 still sleeping, and so on, and they may put sieve 261 00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:03.720 things that are about of their dream. All of that 262 00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:09.599 is known. There are nightmarees that can continue to have 263 00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:14.039 an influence during the day that will be very strange, 264 00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:19.680 and those are known in the psychology literature in psychiatry. 265 00:18:20.200 --> 00:18:25.119 But what was described the turning point for me was 266 00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:30.759 better about the Hill because the book was excellent. They 267 00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:35.440 were credible witnesses, and I had a chance to meet 268 00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:40.680 with them at length several times, and I had a 269 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:45.200 chance to talk to the psychiatrists who had done the 270 00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:52.720 regression separate regression. So the problem is a lot of 271 00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:56.640 people have been doing hypnosis who should not have been 272 00:18:56.720 --> 00:19:02.119 doing hypnosis because it's not the best way to help 273 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:06.880 these people. I've had letters from people who are hypnotized 274 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:10.640 many times by some of the euthologists who are not 275 00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:17.400 licensed in any way to practice hypnosis. And hypnosis is 276 00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:23.160 both the medical and the psychological condition that's not completely 277 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:30.920 understood by medicine or by psychology. And work with others 278 00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:34.559 it and it can be used. It's admissible in California 279 00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:41.279 in court under certain very strict conditions, and professional conditions. 280 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:44.200 Those are not the conditions that we read in the 281 00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:47.640 US or bost somebody says, you are now under my 282 00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:56.119 control and tell me how manys Okay, that is absolutely wrong. 283 00:19:56.759 --> 00:20:01.319 And the problem is that what people have gone through 284 00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:06.480 that you cannot re hypnotize them professionally. Then I have 285 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:10.640 letters from people who are outsited in some of those 286 00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:15.160 books saying the author only took the pobbles could be 287 00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:18.640 interoperating as aliens, but there were a lot of other things, 288 00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:21.799 and he doesn't want to talk about these other things, 289 00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:24.960 and they came out under hypnosis and he doesn't talk 290 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:28.279 about it, and send me to a doctor who does 291 00:20:28.359 --> 00:20:32.680 hypnosis professionally, and I have to answer, I can't do 292 00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:38.720 that because the first hypnosis froze some conditions. And if 293 00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:43.279 you are rehypnotized, you're going to go back to particular 294 00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:49.160 wrong hypnosis. So people should not be hypnotized. They should 295 00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:55.720 they certainly can talk to a professional psychologist or professional psychiatrist, 296 00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:03.039 asking them what are the techniques that could help them, 297 00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:07.480 depending on their condition, some of them all terrified. Now 298 00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:12.680 way is that you can you can treat that without traumatized, 299 00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:16.960 without adding to the trauma. And then then you may 300 00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:21.119 want to use they may want to use hypnosis in 301 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:26.319 certain cases. Now I've looked into about so many cases 302 00:21:26.359 --> 00:21:31.640 of abduction. I've convinced myself that these people had a 303 00:21:31.640 --> 00:21:36.200 an experience that is real to them, and that I 304 00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:37.640 cannot explain. 305 00:21:39.160 --> 00:21:45.519 Part of the citing I had in nineteen fifty five, 306 00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:52.359 I don't remember consciously, and I've struggled with that. 307 00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:56.359 I've never written very much about it, but now I 308 00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:59.480 think I can. I should go back to it and 309 00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:06.079 confessed that because at the end of that observation I 310 00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:09.680 don't remember what I did. I don't remember it clearly, 311 00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:14.960 So I took that as a sort of methodology test. 312 00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:20.559 Then I went to two hypnotists. The first one was 313 00:22:20.599 --> 00:22:26.680 a professor of psychiatry at UCLA, doctor Price Williams, who 314 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:32.079 was a very distinguished writer and psychiatrist. He hypnotized me 315 00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:38.960 and I was immediately paralyzed on the lips and during 316 00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:42.279 the induction. He saw that when he brought me out 317 00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:45.880 and he said, maybe we'll do it again another time, 318 00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:49.759 but I don't want to continue under those conditions. Those 319 00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:52.799 are the things where the apertures just keep going. And 320 00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:57.599 the same cases where somebody was who was really close 321 00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:02.160 with heart attack after that, and uphologists ran away and 322 00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:06.279 not the patient there. Now, there are those horror stories 323 00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:10.359 in the field, so when the skeptics refused to look 324 00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:13.640 at them, they may have an argument that we need 325 00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:18.519 to engage. The second time was recently a couple of 326 00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:23.680 years ago here in San Francisco, with again the licensed 327 00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:30.279 hypnotest who is able to testify in court and professionally, 328 00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:36.240 and we did three sessions and I got deeper into 329 00:23:36.759 --> 00:23:42.599 the trance, but when it came time to essentially recreate 330 00:23:42.680 --> 00:23:47.640 the conditions of the sighting, it became very confusing and 331 00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:50.599 we really didn't get anything, and he had to bring 332 00:23:50.680 --> 00:23:56.519 me out. That's part of one type of experiences that 333 00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:59.000 I had. There is no question there was the US 334 00:23:59.079 --> 00:24:03.480 or there What role did it play in motivating me 335 00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:08.599 to look into this way I did? I don't know. 336 00:24:08.759 --> 00:24:12.880 I've met other people who were in serial situations. Doctor 337 00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:17.359 Nolan at Stanford has made no mystery that as a 338 00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:22.319 child he had experiences, not so much of he has 339 00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:26.880 not talked as far as I know, about a similar condition, 340 00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:31.480 but it's talked about objects in the sky and confusing 341 00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:39.480 situations with actual short beings around him. When when you 342 00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:44.880 can open up, open up the confidence well with people, 343 00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:49.839 will you you find you've discovered those But it's a 344 00:24:49.880 --> 00:24:53.119 long whin they answer. That's a complex question. It takes, 345 00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:54.960 it takes a complete answer. 346 00:24:55.640 --> 00:25:00.039 I also agree with the part about the when you 347 00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:04.000 talk about hypnotism and someone leads someone say like you 348 00:25:04.039 --> 00:25:07.000 said about the aliens instead of letting them talk like 349 00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:11.319 how many aliens were there, and that's considered leading. 350 00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:13.960 You'll planting. You'll planting an idea. 351 00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:19.799 And the thing that really happens with memory, I'm sure 352 00:25:19.839 --> 00:25:23.359 you know this is whenever you're remembering something, you're rebuilding 353 00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:27.240 what you thought about last time. And so that's how 354 00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:30.160 that works in hypnotizing. If someone was hypnotized and. 355 00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:32.240 Then remember this, they'll remember it again. 356 00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:35.640 So yeah, that is a if it's not done right 357 00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:37.640 in the beginning, you can't really undo it. 358 00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:38.960 That's what it sounds like. 359 00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:43.680 And there are other ways of helping elish people, other 360 00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:49.559 techniques like you can induce and deepen without saying you 361 00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:51.039 are a go medicaltrol. 362 00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:54.279 What tell me about the shape of the object, which 363 00:25:54.319 --> 00:25:58.119 is a brutal, irreversible way to do it, which is. 364 00:25:58.160 --> 00:26:02.480 Worth So this is just an unusual question that I 365 00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:07.279 thought of. If the phenomenon functions partly as a control 366 00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:12.680 system that adapts to human beliefs and expectations, like it 367 00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:18.160 possibly could have over the many centuries, would the current 368 00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:21.559 disclosure movement itself be changing the phenomenon. 369 00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:32.480 Sure, it already has because in Washington, the people testifying 370 00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:36.880 before Congress and right I have the courage to come 371 00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:42.000 up and speak about what they have experienced. But most 372 00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:47.599 of them come from a military or intelligence environment that's 373 00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:55.680 very structured, very disciplined, and somewhat narrow. So I to me, 374 00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:59.920 most of the observations that are in my books come 375 00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:04.720 from a farmer in the field, or somebody driving on 376 00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:08.599 the road, or a child playing in the field. Those 377 00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:13.359 are not classified. Those are not And I respect the 378 00:27:13.480 --> 00:27:17.839 people who say yes, But the miniature cases are better 379 00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:22.720 because there is an instrument. The instrument is calibrated very well. 380 00:27:23.079 --> 00:27:26.680 If it's an aircraft, you know exactly where you were, 381 00:27:26.920 --> 00:27:30.200 and you know your speed, you know conditions. It's all. 382 00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:33.400 You have a new wax above you, and you have 383 00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:37.680 people a radar on the ground below you. Everybody knows 384 00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:41.160 what happens, and you know the time exactly. You can 385 00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:45.680 measure it. Yes, but you are in something that's moving 386 00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:49.599 very fast. You can only see through the windows you 387 00:27:49.720 --> 00:27:54.279 have that are designed for essentially for combat, and your 388 00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:58.359 instruments are designed for combat. They are not designed as 389 00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:04.160 scientific instruments to measure the environment. To me with farmer 390 00:28:04.279 --> 00:28:09.200 in the field, this is I'll take both. I sell 391 00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:14.200 the I'm fascinated with what the professional pilots have reported. 392 00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:21.000 We just compiled a new catalog of pilot cases with 393 00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:26.599 people in France that covers the twentieth century from nineteen 394 00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:31.039 hundred two thousand. That is twice the size of the 395 00:28:31.079 --> 00:28:35.880 catalog that the project in Las Vegas, the Classified Project, 396 00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:40.279 a PASS project, or the ass or SUP project. They 397 00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:46.200 published the results of their statistics about pilot scientings. We 398 00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:50.559 just finished the catalog that's twice that size. So we're 399 00:28:50.559 --> 00:28:58.119 going to write an unclassified scientific paper comparing their results, 400 00:28:59.359 --> 00:29:03.880 which were authorized for this closure, with the new results, 401 00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:09.000