Speaker 1: Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bulbo.
Speaker 2: These guys are your favorites, so like to subscribe and rade.
Speaker 1: It, lip Star, shoot and.
Speaker 2: Range.
Speaker 3: Just on a listening watching limb always keep its watching.
Speaker 4: And now your hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Boogle Fay.
Speaker 2: Hey bobes. What's happening to man?
Speaker 5: Oh? Not much, just sitting in the dark room with
Speaker 5: dark sunglasses on. Why because all my headsets are not
Speaker 5: working and the only thing I could find was this
Speaker 5: old pair of bows sunglasses that have little speakers next
Speaker 5: to come out next to you, like external speakers that
Speaker 5: come out right next to your ears, and the speakers
Speaker 5: work given with the sunglasses are just they're too small
Speaker 5: and too dark, so I never really wear them.
Speaker 2: Oh, any chance you can take a selfie of that
Speaker 2: and send it to us, Yeah, i'd love to see that.
Speaker 2: We post on the members section or something. Then again,
Speaker 2: you also said you're in a dark room, so don't
Speaker 2: send us like a it's not dark, it's still daylight.
Speaker 5: I was just really storming out, really dark.
Speaker 2: I didn't want a picture that was just a you know, darkness,
Speaker 2: So I'd love to see that. Though that sounds like
Speaker 2: a lot of fun.
Speaker 3: That would have been a good gag. You could have
Speaker 3: just sent like a jet black square and said like, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's it, that's what you asked for.
Speaker 2: I don't know about you, but I look better in
Speaker 2: the dark.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, I received some good news from one of our
Speaker 3: beloved listeners yesterday. What's up if you guys recall we
Speaker 3: did a topical episode a while back and the Playing
Speaker 3: with the Boys video came up again and I'd said,
Speaker 3: you know what, somebody needs to go and edit that
Speaker 3: Wikipedia entry to reflect that that Bobo was in that video.
Speaker 3: And so one of our good members, Neil, who we've
Speaker 3: chatted with before, he said an email yesterday to the
Speaker 3: podcast and said, just figured ou'd pay the positivity forward.
Speaker 3: So I went to the link and in the music
Speaker 3: video section of the Wikipedia entry for Playing with the Boys,
Speaker 3: that says actors James Bobo Fey, best known for the
Speaker 3: Animal Planet television series Finding Bigfoot and the podcast Bigfoot
Speaker 3: and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo, co presented by Cliff
Speaker 3: Barrickman and produced by Matt Pruitt, stars in this music video. Nice.
Speaker 3: So thanks to Bobo and thanks to Neil. Now Cliff
Speaker 3: and I are forever instantiated in a bit of the
Speaker 3: Logins legacy.
Speaker 2: Kenny Loggins is a big tent and there's plenty of
Speaker 2: room for everyone here.
Speaker 5: That's funny. If Nils listening, as I say, if Nil's listening,
Speaker 5: give you a little so I turns blue on.
Speaker 2: There.
Speaker 4: You know you can click a little thing, says the vows, Yeah,
Speaker 4: under our names like he linked to the Finding Bigfoot
Speaker 4: wiki entry and then to the podcast website, to Cliff's
Speaker 4: website and to my website.
Speaker 3: So you got to get a web side up so
Speaker 3: it can click to somewhere.
Speaker 5: Oh it is how it works, yes, sir, Okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, generally, but link's got to go somewhere, right, So.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much Neil for doing that. That gave
Speaker 3: me a big chuckle. Greatly appreciate that. And say hello
Speaker 3: to your mom for us too, because she's also an
Speaker 3: avid listener, so we greatly appreciate that. I expected my
Speaker 3: life will change tremendously now that I'm part of the
Speaker 3: Logins family, and.
Speaker 2: I just love you know, non criminal gorilla mischief, Absolutely
Speaker 2: love it. So thank you so much. That's amazing, amazing.
Speaker 5: Thanks.
Speaker 2: Where's this picture, Bobs? I haven't seen it yet.
Speaker 3: See when Bobo was talking about having his Roger Patterson
Speaker 3: first editions in his safe, I thought he was joking.
Speaker 3: But I do see a safe, and I think that's
Speaker 3: where they are.
Speaker 5: That's exactly where they are.
Speaker 2: It's true, it's true. I've seen him. Bobo has quite
Speaker 2: the book collection. It may not be as large of
Speaker 2: a collection as some other folks in the big book community,
Speaker 2: but his, you know, the books that he has far
Speaker 2: make up for it.
Speaker 5: And I got that one. I got a couple of
Speaker 5: books that not many people have got, like that Chinese one.
Speaker 5: The guy said, the no non Chinese, how the Chinese one,
Speaker 5: because Danny Perez was pretty pretty jealous of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we picked that up in Shinozha right when we're
Speaker 2: over there. Or did you get it somewhere else?
Speaker 5: No, there, got it from that profession. We talked to
Speaker 5: you about that.
Speaker 2: I love the picture. Okay, I just got the picture.
Speaker 2: It looks amazing, Bob. It's just like, that's how I
Speaker 2: always want to remember you.
Speaker 5: Nice.
Speaker 2: Well, I had some other stuff this week happened that
Speaker 2: was kind of kind of fun. I got, you know,
Speaker 2: Toby Johnson. Oh yeah, yeah, but good friend, good guy,
Speaker 2: I've done it for a long time, you know, I
Speaker 2: go way back, he kind of. He's guy that pointed
Speaker 2: me towards the London tracks back in the days. So God,
Speaker 2: I must have met him in two thousand and eight
Speaker 2: or twenty ten or something. I don't know when, a
Speaker 2: long time ago. He lives up in the Olympic Peninsula now,
Speaker 2: But I like the guy a lot. We've been good
Speaker 2: friends for a long time, despite our differing beliefs on sasquatches.
Speaker 2: But he texted me this past week and he brought
Speaker 2: up something that well, he basically said, Cliff, look at
Speaker 2: this or whatever, you have any thoughts on it? And
Speaker 2: go what is this? And it was a YouTube link
Speaker 2: and I, what is this?
Speaker 5: Man?
Speaker 2: I don't like watching bigfoot YouTube stuff. So I clicked
Speaker 2: it and it turns out it's his page. I didn't
Speaker 2: know he had a YouTube channel, but he does, and
Speaker 2: I'm gonna plug it. In fact, I'll put the same
Speaker 2: link in the map prudo, but at the same link
Speaker 2: in the show notes below. His channel is called Olympic
Speaker 2: Strange Days, Bigfoot Paranormal Everything's on the table sort of thing.
Speaker 2: As near as I can figure, this is the only
Speaker 2: no I've seen two of his videos, but as they're
Speaker 2: both happy to do with this one topic here, so
Speaker 2: I clicked on it and basically he had access to
Speaker 2: this video that he said he's been sitting on for
Speaker 2: five years. And I said, oh, this thing again, right,
Speaker 2: because several years ago, and I don't remember what year
Speaker 2: it was, but Toby came up to me and at
Speaker 2: squatch Fest I think it was, and he goes, Cliff,
Speaker 2: look at this video I have And I go, oh, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I know that videos. It's not a real bigfoot.
Speaker 3: He goes, what do you mean?
Speaker 2: And I told him a little bit about it and
Speaker 2: stuff and told him what I knew about it, and
Speaker 2: it kind of surfaced again and he was thinking, Now,
Speaker 2: I don't think maybe he didn't believe me at first,
Speaker 2: or maybe it just kind of forgot or whatever. But
Speaker 2: I told him the origins of it, which we'll get
Speaker 2: into in a minute, and now he started asking other people.
Speaker 2: He has quite a few other individuals. Again, if you
Speaker 2: watch the video, he can tell you from his perspective
Speaker 2: what he went through to get to the bottom of this.
Speaker 2: And he sent me a link to one of his
Speaker 2: videos on his Olympic Strange Days YouTube channel, and I'm
Speaker 2: looking at the text right now when he wrote feedback,
Speaker 2: who hoaxed this? And then well, it wasn't really a hoax.
Speaker 2: That's not really the right word for it. So but
Speaker 2: I think it's so odd how things just cycle back through.
Speaker 2: And basically the video is a thermal video. It appears
Speaker 2: to show a sasquatch walking through the woods being chased
Speaker 2: by either a drone or a helicopter. It was actually
Speaker 2: a helicopter. I know the backstory of this. I've seen
Speaker 2: photographs and all that stuff, but it's basically a thermal
Speaker 2: video of a purported sasquatch taken from a helicopter. And
Speaker 2: I guess, and again, watch Toby's video. He'll tell you
Speaker 2: his version of it, like how he got it and
Speaker 2: what he was told about it. So my details, since
Speaker 2: I've not watched the whole video of Toby's video, I've
Speaker 2: just watched the important parts and stuff, I might be
Speaker 2: a little off, but basically, somebody tried to give this
Speaker 2: to him, saying that it was a release or leaked
Speaker 2: military video or something like that taken in the nineties.
Speaker 2: I believe of a sasquatch and secret and all this
Speaker 2: sort of stuff, and it wasn't at all. It wasn't
Speaker 2: at all. I know where this video came from. So
Speaker 2: I guess probably that's the best story to tell right now,
Speaker 2: is that this video crossed my desk in twenty fourteen,
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, somewhere in there, Chad Hammel, the field producer
Speaker 2: for Finding Bigfoot, supervising field producer, he's basically in charge
Speaker 2: of the show out in the field. He texted this
Speaker 2: to me because he got it. And this is probably
Speaker 2: at the end of twenty fourteen, early twenty fifteen, somewhere
Speaker 2: in there. He got it from Fleer, from Fleer itself,
Speaker 2: and Fleer was clearing out there. You might remember this,
Speaker 2: Bobo as I tell more about it. Yeah, yeah, So
Speaker 2: Fleer was cleaning out their closets at the corporate headquarters
Speaker 2: there in Wilsonville, the local corporate headquarters, and they came
Speaker 2: across a VHS tape that said Bigfoot on him, That's
Speaker 2: all I said. So they popped it in and sure enough,
Speaker 2: it just seemed to show a sasquatch wandering around. They
Speaker 2: had no idea where it was, where it was coming from,
Speaker 2: or anything like that, and so they they played it
Speaker 2: on a TV screen and then they videotaped the screen
Speaker 2: while they're watching it for the first second or third
Speaker 2: time or something like that, you know, they're watching it
Speaker 2: for the p and then they texted that the Chad
Speaker 2: Hamil and said, hey, you know what any think about this?
Speaker 2: And Chad texted it to me saying, clips you know
Speaker 2: anything about this? And I go, no, I've never seen
Speaker 2: that before. It's really interesting. Maybe we should do an
Speaker 2: episode on it or something. And he said, yeah, maybe
Speaker 2: we should, And but we didn't have We didn't know
Speaker 2: where it was coming from. We just knew Flear found
Speaker 2: it and stuff, and no, that's interesting enough story, that's
Speaker 2: mystery and everything. So we're kind of gearing up to
Speaker 2: do one of the mount Hood episodes on this particular
Speaker 2: piece of footage. So you know, when we shot Finding Bigfoot,
Speaker 2: we would shoot you know what, three to five episodes,
Speaker 2: and then we'd come home for a couple of weeks
Speaker 2: and like two weeks and go back on the road
Speaker 2: shoot three to five more episodes. We'd be gone for
Speaker 2: like five six weeks at a time, get home, we
Speaker 2: can have two weeks, go back on the road for
Speaker 2: five or six weeks at a time, and you know,
Speaker 2: Rinse Wash repeat for a long time. And the run
Speaker 2: we were filming before we were planning to do this
Speaker 2: particular Mount Hood Mystery thermal video that Fleer discovered. We
Speaker 2: were shooting the main episode and I was hanging out
Speaker 2: with Lauren Coleman. I was with Lauren and his museum
Speaker 2: and just kind of shooting the poop and talking about
Speaker 2: things that are going on and whatever. And I said, Lauren,
Speaker 2: check out this video that we have that we're going
Speaker 2: to be doing something on mounta Hood we don't know
Speaker 2: anything about. We just thought it would be fun to
Speaker 2: do and kind of one of the pieces of the
Speaker 2: puzzle here. And I showed it to Laura and he goes,
Speaker 2: looks familiar. So well, I don't remember where. I can't
Speaker 2: quite remember where I've seen that before, but I know
Speaker 2: I've seen that somewhere. I said, oh, that's interesting if
Speaker 2: you if you remember, I'd love to hear about it. Cool.
Speaker 2: And then like that day or a couple of days later,
Speaker 2: I get an email from Lauren saying, Cliff I remembered
Speaker 2: where it was. It was from Unsolved Mysteries episode in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four that Peter Burn was part of, and
Speaker 2: I go, no kidding, no kidding, And which is great
Speaker 2: because you know, we almost included that as one of
Speaker 2: the things we're looking into in our Finding Big Fit episode.
Speaker 5: I was going, there's no way that can't be real.
Speaker 5: Like I was like that, like that's that's so good,
Speaker 5: Like I thought I was. I thought I was for
Speaker 5: sure real.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it looked pretty good. I mean now looking at
Speaker 2: it now, you can there's some telltale things. You can
Speaker 2: tell it's a suit. Short arms, well yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: But the thing that really jumps out to me that
Speaker 2: shows us a suit is you know, again we're looking
Speaker 2: at heat right because from a limagu or you're not
Speaker 2: looking at an actual thing. And by the way, you
Speaker 2: can see this video in Toby's YouTube thing. We're not
Speaker 2: going to post it or anything like that because we
Speaker 2: don't own it, but Toby did it and he's cool
Speaker 2: with that, so you can see it on Toby's deal.
Speaker 2: But basically, where the suit rests upon the human inside
Speaker 2: of it is the warmest part of the suit. So
Speaker 2: you can see the top part of the shoulders are
Speaker 2: much warmer than most of the rest of the body.
Speaker 2: You know, and as the animal or the guy in
Speaker 2: the suit is walking around, it gets warmer and warmer,
Speaker 2: and that it exaggerates it more. You can basically see
Speaker 2: where the human is in contact with the suit more
Speaker 2: than the parts it's not. And that's one of the
Speaker 2: dead giveaways of a person in a suit when you're
Speaker 2: looking at them in thermal imaging.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: So anyway, we had to change things around real fast
Speaker 2: and fill a hole in the episode that we kind
Speaker 2: of plugged in this particular piece of footage and stuff,
Speaker 2: and there you go. So that is the source of
Speaker 2: that video. And I told that to Toby a couple
Speaker 2: of years ago, but I guess he forgot or I
Speaker 2: was looking for more evidence of it or something, or
Speaker 2: you know. And again, just like I tell you guys
Speaker 2: all the time, you don't believe me, fact check me,
Speaker 2: please do. I tell you the truth as I remember it.
Speaker 2: But I'm incorrect sometimes everybody is no big deal. But
Speaker 2: I'll always tell you my version of the truth. And
Speaker 2: maybe I'm in correct sometimes, but maybe that's what Toby assumed.
Speaker 2: I was just incorrect. So anyway, the sinks surfaced again
Speaker 2: this past week and I said, well, who hoaxed this?
Speaker 2: He asked, and I go, well, it's not a hoaxince
Speaker 2: from nineties, and you know, I followed up, by the way,
Speaker 2: not with Peter, but with Larry Lund at the time,
Speaker 2: back in twenty fifteen. I forwarded it to Larry Lund
Speaker 2: and he goes, oh, yeah, yeah, I was there on
Speaker 2: that shoot. And then next time I was hanging out
Speaker 2: with Larry, because Larry and I get together a couple
Speaker 2: times a year and just hang out. And he pulled
Speaker 2: out photographs from that very shoot and it was shot
Speaker 2: on the east side of Mountain Hood and he had
Speaker 2: the pictures of the guy in the suit with the
Speaker 2: head off of it, you know, like taking a break
Speaker 2: and getting some air. He had pictures of the helicopter
Speaker 2: and the whole nine.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: It was clearly that episode Unsolved Mysteries. Whatever season it was,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I know it's on Amazon Prime though,
Speaker 2: if you do want to pull it up. Amazon Prime
Speaker 2: has it. That's where I pulled it up. So anyway,
Speaker 2: he was saying, hey, can you get any more information
Speaker 2: on it? And I said, well, it's a TV show.
Speaker 5: It was Unsolved Mysteries.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it goes. How come I can't find
Speaker 2: the footage online and stuff? And I said, I don't know,
Speaker 2: but that's what it was. And so what I did
Speaker 2: is I pulled up the episode and kind of rewatched it.
Speaker 2: It turns out that that footage is not actually in
Speaker 2: the episode, which is part of the mystery of it,
Speaker 2: or was the mystery of it? They and you know
Speaker 2: what it is is. You know, Bobie, you'll appreciate this
Speaker 2: probably more than most of our listeners would because you've
Speaker 2: been associated so closely with television for so long. Is
Speaker 2: that chasing a bigfoot around with the helicopter really didn't
Speaker 2: fit the storyline that they set up. The story that
Speaker 2: they set up because they were doing Peter Burns Bigfoot
Speaker 2: research project, and Peter was basically saying, look at me,
Speaker 2: I've got a helicopter in advanced thermal imaging technology. And
Speaker 2: this is in ninety four, by the way, so terms
Speaker 2: were practically unheard of at the time. This was high,
Speaker 2: high level stuff in ninety four. You know, you can
Speaker 2: look at the quality of the footage and say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's pretty good quality therm right there, and for ninety
Speaker 2: four it's outrageous. You know, that was a very expensive
Speaker 2: unit back in the day. And Peter was basically saying, yeah,
Speaker 2: look at the tech I have in case you want
Speaker 2: to give my nonprofit more money and stuff, and like,
Speaker 2: look what we can do. And that's what that was
Speaker 2: the hook of this particular segment. You know, Peter Burns
Speaker 2: Bigfoot research project, which was based out in Parkdale on
Speaker 2: the east side of Mount Hood and the story of
Speaker 2: the episode. When you watch the episode of Unsolved Mysteries, it's, yeah,
Speaker 2: we're here with this cracked team of bigfoot nerds and
Speaker 2: whatever else, and they're doing a run through, a practice
Speaker 2: run chasing a fugitive because chasing a fugitive will give
Speaker 2: us more practice on chasing a real bigfoot when that
Speaker 2: time comes. So apparently they filmed both them, and you
Speaker 2: can see the footage of the guy running through the
Speaker 2: trees and everything. But in the footage you'll see on
Speaker 2: Toby's page there, it's actually a guy in a bigfoot suit. Now,
Speaker 2: the thing is, you can see the GPS coordinates in
Speaker 2: both pieces of footage, see the date stamp, and you
Speaker 2: can see the time stamp on both pieces of footage.
Speaker 2: The GPS coordinates are almost identical, the date is obviously
Speaker 2: the same, and the time stamp itself. I think the
Speaker 2: Bigfoot stuff was like five minutes later, three to eight
Speaker 2: minutes later, somewhere there, you know. So it was shot
Speaker 2: right after the dude running through the woods for practice,
Speaker 2: because you aren't going to put a helicopter down and
Speaker 2: then put it back up. You're just going to make
Speaker 2: a guy run because helicopters are too expensive for that
Speaker 2: sort of thing. So they filmed the dude running through
Speaker 2: which is the actual footage that they used in the episode,
Speaker 2: and then they filmed the Bigfoot stuff which they never
Speaker 2: used in the episode, which is you know, makes sense
Speaker 2: to me because and I'm sure Bobo too, because we're
Speaker 2: you know, we did TV for so long, a lot
Speaker 2: of the stuff ends up on the cutting room floor,
Speaker 2: so to speak. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond
Speaker 2: with Cliff and Bogo. Will be right back after these messages.
Speaker 2: So three to six months doesn't seem like a long
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Speaker 2: we've been looking for sasquatches for decades and decades and decades.
Speaker 2: But when you think about what can happen in three
Speaker 2: to six months, like, what would you do in three
Speaker 2: to six months? I'm gonna give me six months, go
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Speaker 2: So I got to show all this stuff to Toby,
Speaker 2: and he happened to be driving through town. So he's
Speaker 2: at the museum and I pulled up the you know,
Speaker 2: the Unsolved Mysteries episode. Then I put the footage, the
Speaker 2: version I have, I had it for years and years
Speaker 2: and years, and my hard drive right next to it,
Speaker 2: and I pointed out the GPS, I pointed out the
Speaker 2: Times stuff, and I pointed out this and that, and
Speaker 2: there you go. And so one more misidentification of a
Speaker 2: piece of footage, I guess has been put to bed.
Speaker 2: And by the way, the reason I'm bringing this up
Speaker 2: is not only because it's Bigfoot related and finding Bigfoot related,
Speaker 2: and you know, it's not really a hoax because it
Speaker 2: was a recreation filmed for a TV show, right, so
Speaker 2: they didn't intend for it to be a hoax. But
Speaker 2: since Toby posted this like last week, you know, this
Speaker 2: past week, I should say, what is it today? Wednesday?
Speaker 2: I think Toby was in the town on Sunday or so.
Speaker 2: I don't know. This last week he started posting all this.
Speaker 2: It's already crossed my desk twice on social media, on
Speaker 2: emails and stuff, people saying, look at this cliff. Is
Speaker 2: it real? That's military blah blah blah, is it out?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, is this real? Cliff? So people are
Speaker 2: now repurposing this footage that was filmed as a recreation
Speaker 2: and saying that it is a military thing or somebody
Speaker 2: filmed this or has been leaked or whatever. And and
Speaker 2: I'll tell you now that is hoaxing. The footage itself
Speaker 2: is not a hoax because it was never intended for
Speaker 2: it to be a hoax. But people who are out
Speaker 2: there saying that it's real and this is the backstory
Speaker 2: and all this other stuff that could very well cross
Speaker 2: that line, that fuzzy line into hoaxing. So be careful
Speaker 2: what you believe out there. And I'm sure that this
Speaker 2: is not going to be the end of this particular
Speaker 2: piece of footage. It will continue to resurface. Now that
Speaker 2: it has been put out in the public realm, people
Speaker 2: are going to grab it, and you know, as people
Speaker 2: ebb and flow through the Bigfoot community, over the next
Speaker 2: five or eight years, we will continue to see this
Speaker 2: particular piece of footage. But let it be known that
Speaker 2: it is not real. And you know, I mean I
Speaker 2: Bubba and I both saw it and we thought, oh,
Speaker 2: that looks amazing, but it is not real. It was
Speaker 2: It's not truly a hoax until someone purports it to
Speaker 2: be from something that it is not and they know
Speaker 2: better then that's hoaxing. But anyway, you know, one of
Speaker 2: the cool things about this is that in Toby's video
Speaker 2: that you can watch that because it'll be in the
Speaker 2: show notes, he offers this really cool carved bigfoot head
Speaker 2: as a prize for whoever can can solve this mystery,
Speaker 2: and he gave it to me. I didn't. I told him, dude,
Speaker 2: you didn't have to do that. I mean, he's a
Speaker 2: chainsaw carver now as part of his living. You don't
Speaker 2: have to do that. Man, we're friends, and you know,
Speaker 2: I just tell you. I just I'm glad the truth
Speaker 2: is out there. But he said, no, no, no, this is cool.
Speaker 2: I'm excited about it. And you know, I told everybody
Speaker 2: I would do it, and I want to do it.
Speaker 2: So I accepted it as a donation to the North
Speaker 2: American big Foot Center. So now I have two, actually
Speaker 2: have three pieces of art from Toby Johnson in the museum,
Speaker 2: and I couldn't be happier about it. And it was
Speaker 2: nice to hang out with Toby again because I just
Speaker 2: loved the guys had a lot of fun. So we'll
Speaker 2: be posting some of this stuff to uh probably do
Speaker 2: the members. I'm guessing right through it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the easiest place to host all that stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'll send you a couple of pictures of
Speaker 2: the head and stuff like that, and I'll send that
Speaker 2: to you right now, Matt, and there you go. So
Speaker 2: that's kind of some of the big news that was
Speaker 2: happening in this past week in my life. At least
Speaker 2: I want a cool bigfoot head. There will be a
Speaker 2: picture of it on the for the members, of course.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I got to get to the bottom of
Speaker 2: another mystery like any like any good hardy boy would
Speaker 2: well done.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I saw that video. I got, I got, I
Speaker 5: got like several texts and emails going like, dude, if
Speaker 5: you've seen this as this is insane. I was like,
Speaker 5: that's mystery solved already, like over ten years ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's kind of It was funny to see
Speaker 2: it again. It's like, well, of course that's going to
Speaker 2: come around again. And so I thought it'd be a
Speaker 2: good idea to talk it, spend a little time on
Speaker 2: our podcast here getting out to a lot of people's
Speaker 2: ears that if you see this, don't believe it, don't
Speaker 2: get all excited about it, and diffuse the misinformation. This
Speaker 2: has been put to bed thanks to Lauren Coleman. Straight out.
Speaker 2: Thank you to Lauren Coleman because he recognized it. I
Speaker 2: did not when I first saw it. It didn't sound
Speaker 2: like you did either, Bob. So like, Lauren saved us
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways, because not only would that
Speaker 2: have been an embarrassment, but then again, at the same time,
Speaker 2: you know, that footage was never actually aired, which is
Speaker 2: part of the reason it didn't look familiar, But it
Speaker 2: looked familiar enough because of the other stuff chasing the
Speaker 2: dude through the forest that Lauren clued in on it.
Speaker 2: So it hats off to Lauren for putting the pieces
Speaker 2: together for us. And like, imagine the embarrassment of finding
Speaker 2: Bigfoot doing that and then finding out that another television
Speaker 2: production actually owned that footage, you know, and then finding
Speaker 2: Bigfoot put it out. That'd be hilarious. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 3: The same old videos and pictures resurface every year because
Speaker 3: the turnover rate in Sasquatchree is so high that there's
Speaker 3: always like a bevy of brand new people who haven't
Speaker 3: been exposed to this stuff. And what people do, like
Speaker 3: in this case, is they're like, oh, I received this.
Speaker 3: It was a leak from you know, they changed the backstory.
Speaker 3: You remember that picture of a I think it was
Speaker 3: a melanistic leopard. I think it was from Africa, although
Speaker 3: it might have been a melanistic jaguar in South America.
Speaker 3: Either way, it was taken in like an enclosed environment.
Speaker 3: But it's been around for like twenty five years on
Speaker 3: the internet, and everyone's like, oh, yeah, my cousin got
Speaker 3: this in his backyard in Texas, Georgia, Tennessee, Arizona, Arkansas.
Speaker 3: You know, it doesn't matter where. People just find those
Speaker 3: pictures reposted and act like, you know, they're the ones
Speaker 3: who uncovered it, and there's a whole new group of
Speaker 3: people to go, oh.
Speaker 2: My god, this is amazing.
Speaker 3: This guy took this in his backyard, or you know,
Speaker 3: Toby received leaked intel from the military, or whatever the
Speaker 3: case may be. You know, yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Again, a lot of this on YouTube and the internet
Speaker 2: and social media and stuff. I don't pay too much
Speaker 2: attention to any of that stuff. But Toby was given
Speaker 2: me was speaking in such a way that led me
Speaker 2: to believe that there's a fair number of people that
Speaker 2: think this is real footage. Out there, you know, so
Speaker 2: it'll be interesting to see who goes to the mat
Speaker 2: for to say that this is real, and you know,
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. But not that I'll ever
Speaker 2: hear about it or care necessarily, But I just think
Speaker 2: it's so funny that people would stick to their opinion.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm assuming, maybe I'm hopefully I'll be just
Speaker 2: wrong about this, but I would expect some people to
Speaker 2: stick to their opinion instead of the facts, because their
Speaker 2: opinion to them are facts.
Speaker 3: There were people who sent that or even in the past,
Speaker 3: things like that, and you know, they'll take it pretty
Speaker 3: hard when you deflate them, and then they'll say things like,
Speaker 3: oh God, but I wish it was real, And we
Speaker 3: have a saying here in the South, and I'll clean
Speaker 3: it up for the air. But you know, you can
Speaker 3: wish in one hand and poop in the other and
Speaker 3: wait and see which one fills up first.
Speaker 5: I love that saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, there was one a guy sent me a
Speaker 3: couple of years ago. That was the two thousand and
Speaker 3: eight Rick Dyer Matt Whitten Bigfoot Body in the Freezer hoax.
Speaker 3: That someone sit a guy who calls himself a sasquatch
Speaker 3: researcher sent me that pictures like, oh my god, have
Speaker 3: you seen this? And I was like, dude, really.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, things like that surface all the time all
Speaker 2: the I've seen some footprints like that as well. And
Speaker 2: then every once in a while something really throws a
Speaker 2: curveball at me where it's something I recognize, but a
Speaker 2: different version of it that isn't put out there as
Speaker 2: a hoax but just mistaken identity. I think I meant
Speaker 2: maybe mentioned this couple maybe a couple months ago, like
Speaker 2: two or three months ago. Yeah, I must have, because
Speaker 2: Meldrum sent me a photograph of a footprint in the
Speaker 2: ground from that. He said it was from sixty eight
Speaker 2: or sixty nine or something. I think it was sixty eight,
Speaker 2: and it was it was clearly a Patterson Gimlin footprint,
Speaker 2: you know, And I say, oh, this might be the
Speaker 2: first evidence of that animal being tracked after the film,
Speaker 2: you know. But it turns out that it was another
Speaker 2: photograph from when Jim McLaren went there, not Jim McLaren.
Speaker 2: Lyle Laberty. Yeah, Lyle Laberty went there, so somebody else
Speaker 2: on his crew took a picture, or maybe Lyle Laborty
Speaker 2: took another one that i'd never been published, but it
Speaker 2: was literally one of those same footprints in the ground
Speaker 2: that Lyle Laberty photographed, but a different angle at it
Speaker 2: that I'd never seen before. So there's stuff out there
Speaker 2: that every once in a while surfaces, and this has
Speaker 2: bad information on it, because that was whoever sent it
Speaker 2: to Meldrum said that Forrest Service took it, and I
Speaker 2: think it was I think he claimed that he took it,
Speaker 2: or one of somebody in his family or something, but
Speaker 2: it was in sixty eight and that was incorrect, and
Speaker 2: I think Meldrum went back and said, actually, this isn't
Speaker 2: sixty eight, it was sixty seven, and the guy kind of like, well,
Speaker 2: I'm not sure that's accurate, but it clearly was. You
Speaker 2: could see the same rocks in the picture, and it
Speaker 2: was clearly a Patty footprint.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So there's all sorts of different iterations of that sort
Speaker 2: of phenomenon, like the same things being recycled for the
Speaker 2: public in various ways, with various backstories, some nefarious like
Speaker 2: straight up made up, some just repeated from somebody else
Speaker 2: who made it up, and then some just erroneous.
Speaker 3: I see it a lot with some of the new
Speaker 3: content creators too, because they're always looking for new things
Speaker 3: to post or talk about, so they'll resurrect old things
Speaker 3: that they don't realize our hoaxes and put it out
Speaker 3: to their audience like hey, what do you guys think
Speaker 3: of this? Where it's like, hey, if you had looked
Speaker 3: into that for five seconds, you would have had the
Speaker 3: correct thoughts about it.
Speaker 2: But oh well, yeah, well, social media really is about
Speaker 2: the quick and easy, you know, I mean, you can.
Speaker 2: I love that. I saw something years ago when I
Speaker 2: paid more attention to it. It was some sort of
Speaker 2: inflammatory headline on an article that, if you read it,
Speaker 2: points out that nobody reads articles but gets all beat
Speaker 2: out of shape at headlines. And it was great because
Speaker 2: you look at the comments and they just they fed
Speaker 2: right into it. They totally fell for the joke dash
Speaker 2: trap that they that was set for them, and it
Speaker 2: was absolutely hilarious. I just loved it. But you know again,
Speaker 2: social media is for the quick and easy. Frankly, it's
Speaker 2: for the lazy in my opinion, Like you like, if
Speaker 2: you don't you don't want to know something, go on
Speaker 2: social media. They'll tell you all about what you don't
Speaker 2: want to know.
Speaker 3: I think that's why we don't really post much short
Speaker 3: form content because we're not for that attention span. You know,
Speaker 3: I'm not interested in appealing to that sort of attention span.
Speaker 3: Things that are really complex and rich. You can't just
Speaker 3: flatten it into some like two dimensional three second long,
Speaker 3: five second long presentation. Like no, if you if you
Speaker 3: want to hear what this is about, you might have
Speaker 3: to listen for an hour, but then you'll fully understand it.
Speaker 3: But no, you can't just condense it to some short
Speaker 3: form thing. I think people are creating a lot of
Speaker 3: short form stuff, so you see it everywhere. But most
Speaker 3: people when they get on those apps like YouTube or
Speaker 3: podcast like, they want to hear in depth discussions or
Speaker 3: analyzes or explorations of the subjects that they're interested in.
Speaker 3: They don't just want to scroll through reels and clips
Speaker 3: all day. They want to dig in. I mean, we've
Speaker 3: been running for six years and have tens of thousands
Speaker 3: of subscribers on the audio platform, so of which I'm
Speaker 3: exceedingly extremely grateful. So I think that's a testament to that. Like, No,
Speaker 3: I don't think everybody just wants you know, quick clips thankfully.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, let's hope I'm glad. I'm glad that that
Speaker 2: seems to be true. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and
Speaker 2: Beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right back after
Speaker 2: these messages. Well you know enough about that. I mean,
Speaker 2: I think that was an important thing to go over
Speaker 2: because people will be seeing this footage out there and
Speaker 2: now you know, now you know, and you can help
Speaker 2: stop the spread of misinformation, you know, from people who
Speaker 2: say that they know where this came from and whatever else.
Speaker 2: And somebody's gonna say Cliff is full of it. I'm
Speaker 2: not full of anything, man, except for facts. At this one.
Speaker 2: You can we can prove this one. So don't don't
Speaker 2: let anybody who's poopoing this. I've got no dog in
Speaker 2: this fight. Sure I want a cool carving, but that's
Speaker 2: the end of it. But anyway, well, this is actually
Speaker 2: a topical episode and for the last half hours, so
Speaker 2: we're going to dive into a couple of these topics
Speaker 2: and get through as many as we can, and then
Speaker 2: we'll run off and do a members episode with a
Speaker 2: couple of those things in it. But for now, let's
Speaker 2: start with this one article here.
Speaker 5: Where is it?
Speaker 2: Let me pull it up? Okay, this one is Manga
Speaker 2: Bay is the name of the publication and the article's
Speaker 2: title is camera traps capture first glimpse of genetically distinct
Speaker 2: chimps in Southwestern Nigeria. And to summarize this pretty much, basically,
Speaker 2: there's a very very genetically distinct species of chimpanzee that
Speaker 2: is out there in Nigeria in its place called what
Speaker 2: is it key or E C E S. I think
Speaker 2: it is.
Speaker 5: As cool as the only indigenous grassroots conservation organization in
Speaker 5: all of Nigeria. And they're the ones that got the footage.
Speaker 5: That's a good score for them.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 2: You want to know where the habits of been animal,
Speaker 2: you talk to a local person. Yeah, yeah, but this
Speaker 2: particular article is cool and it's very hopeful because they
Speaker 2: had not gotten pictures of these things, and they were
Speaker 2: going around telling the local people saying, hey, we have
Speaker 2: to change our ways because these this rare species of
Speaker 2: chimp is out here. But they had not captured any
Speaker 2: video of them. They had not captured any photographs of them.
Speaker 2: They're just saying, I think they're here. And then the
Speaker 2: local people were not willing to stop their habits because
Speaker 2: they weren't so sure. And I think That's one of
Speaker 2: the one of the big takeaways from this article is
Speaker 2: that I think, I guess one of the things that
Speaker 2: like that there's a lot of land use for you know,
Speaker 2: like marijuana cultivation in this particular area.
Speaker 5: Yeah, surprised to see that. I was like, what in
Speaker 5: Nigeria there's a weed growing region, had no idea.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and of course we'd growing I just a plant
Speaker 2: and everything, but a lot of the chemicals that are
Speaker 2: used in it are really damaging into the environment, you know,
Speaker 2: I guess a lot of the fertilizers in particular or whatever,
Speaker 2: and it's a very nutrient hungry plant, I guess. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: they were kind of screwing up a lot of land
Speaker 2: and taking a lot of the habitat from these chimpanzees
Speaker 2: for marijuana and other things as well. They're just damaging
Speaker 2: the environment. But now that they got a picture of
Speaker 2: one of these things, the local people are saying, oh okay,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, now we're with you. Now we can help out.
Speaker 2: Now that we know that what's up, we're happy to
Speaker 2: do some stuff and change our ways a little bit
Speaker 2: to help these chimpanzees because it is a very endangered species.
Speaker 2: Chimpanzee or a type of chimpanzee or sub subspecies. I
Speaker 2: guess they estimate there's about twenty five of these things
Speaker 2: living in an area of about eight thousand acres. Now
Speaker 2: eight thousand acres sounds like a lot, and it is,
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, But I didn't know how much
Speaker 2: it was, so did little math. It's twelve point five
Speaker 2: square miles, you know, so something about three and a
Speaker 2: half miles on a side, like a square that big.
Speaker 2: Twenty five chimpanzees are living in that big or small
Speaker 2: of an area, which I think is a big takeaway
Speaker 2: as well, because you think with that limited of a range,
Speaker 2: people would be seeing these things more often.
Speaker 5: Right Yeah, I think the bush meat hunters is the
Speaker 5: biggest problem for those guys there, because that's a smaller
Speaker 5: to be a bush meat hunter.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, in twenty five you know, twenty five animals
Speaker 2: wouldn't get you very far if that's what you lived on,
Speaker 2: right yeah, But pretty cool, Pretty cool, And you know,
Speaker 2: a lot of the comment in this article is about
Speaker 2: how the habitat is just really damaged in a lot
Speaker 2: of ways. Here's a quote. The forest was badly degraded,
Speaker 2: and the chimps were mostly found along the forest by
Speaker 2: the river, which makes a lot of sense because that's
Speaker 2: where the richest habitat is going to be. That's where
Speaker 2: most of the food is going to be. Food, water cover,
Speaker 2: that's what all the animals need. But even then, these
Speaker 2: things were not seen very often, and a lot of
Speaker 2: the people who lived there didn't even think there were
Speaker 2: any in there. And now that's all changed with a
Speaker 2: couple of good photographs. And what could that mean for sasquatch?
Speaker 2: Kind of the same thing, I think, kind of the
Speaker 2: same thing. If Warehouser shared a picture that they got,
Speaker 2: or somebody like you or me, or somebody got a
Speaker 2: game camera picture across the road from Warehouser Land, maybe
Speaker 2: that would change something. It would certainly not make Warehouser
Speaker 2: very happy, I'm sure, because they don't want to change anything. Warehouser,
Speaker 2: of course, is a big logging company out here in
Speaker 2: the Pacific Northwest. I don't know if there are.
Speaker 1: The nationwide matt you have them in the South. I'm
Speaker 1: not certain if Warehouser is in the Southeast. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've seen that name a lot, but there's other big
Speaker 1: timber companies like you know, obviously in Georgia. You've got
Speaker 1: a lot of Georgia Pacific land and then ray and
Speaker 1: Eer is another big one.
Speaker 3: But you know, I've seen Warehouser a lot, but I
Speaker 3: couldn't tell you from memory, like which states I've seen
Speaker 3: that and if it was just in the Northwest or not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I kind of have to wonder, like if there
Speaker 2: were a couple there were a couple really good pieces
Speaker 2: of footage or pictures or something, and people, even if
Speaker 2: it wasn't a proven species yet sasquatches weren't exactly academically accepted.
Speaker 2: What that might do to the land use folks, you know,
Speaker 2: would they change their ways at all? Because that's one
Speaker 2: of my great hopes about the discovery of the sasquatch,
Speaker 2: the academic acceptance, the recognition of the sasquatch, is that
Speaker 2: it's ironically it would leave humans with an opportunity to
Speaker 2: leave a smaller footprint on the environment. I like to
Speaker 2: play on words. I like the idea and I also
Speaker 2: like the outcome if that's true. But I don't know,
Speaker 2: if you know, our profit driven society would do that.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was trying to see and here if they specified,
Speaker 3: like how many cameras were used in the study, you know,
Speaker 3: the distribution of those cameras, because there's certainly lessons to
Speaker 3: be learned here. I mean, we'd be so lucky as
Speaker 3: to be able to focus on an area of that
Speaker 3: size that had as many as twenty five individuals in it.
Speaker 3: I think twelve square miles eight thousand acres might be
Speaker 3: like one quarter of one individual's range, you know, at
Speaker 3: least in certain forests in North America. So it's still
Speaker 3: a difficult proposition. But it would be interesting to know
Speaker 3: how many cameras they use, like and of how many cameras,
Speaker 3: how many captured this individual or individuals, how long the
Speaker 3: cameras were deployed before they got results. I think there'd
Speaker 3: probably be a lot to learn from that. I just
Speaker 3: don't see that in this particular article.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be a useful data, that's for sure,
Speaker 2: to kind of compare notes there. Yeah, because I don't,
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm I personally don't really I'm not seeing
Speaker 2: that sasquatch habit like a range is really really big,
Speaker 2: you know, at least for the female young pairs. And
Speaker 2: and again I don't have a lot of data. I've
Speaker 2: got three areas and I've barely scratched the surface of
Speaker 2: either one. But you know, I think eight miles on
Speaker 2: the side, so sixty five square miles or something like that,
Speaker 2: or sixty four square miles or maybe less, maybe more.
Speaker 2: One hundred square miles is probably reasonable for a little
Speaker 2: family group. I don't really know. I don't really know,
Speaker 2: but it would be interesting to compare notes like that.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, no, it was a fascinating article though. It was
Speaker 3: very cool to see that. I think you had sent
Speaker 3: that one in, but you both might have. There's a
Speaker 3: lot of times when you will both send in an
Speaker 3: article that you stumble across, and so I just you know,
Speaker 3: when i'm compiling them, grab one of the links, because
Speaker 3: every once in a while there will be a duplicate.
Speaker 3: It might be two different media outlets covering the same
Speaker 3: finding or the same news item or something like that.
Speaker 3: But it was interesting. I think it'd be a lot
Speaker 3: to learn from that. But I'm always interested in that
Speaker 3: technical side, like what kind of cameras were they using,
Speaker 3: how many? How well hidden were they? Were they just
Speaker 3: strapped the trees, they use other methods of hiding them?
Speaker 3: Were they out there for days or weeks or months
Speaker 3: before they captured these images, you know.
Speaker 2: You know when I was talking to years ago, I
Speaker 2: did I did Lauren Coleman's conference, you know, the his
Speaker 2: museum thing out there in the east, the northeast somewhere,
Speaker 2: and doctor Annaacaris was on the gig with us, and
Speaker 2: so I got to know her a little bit, and
Speaker 2: she had a lot of early interesting things to say,
Speaker 2: of course, but one of the things that she mentioned
Speaker 2: is that well, whatever you guys are doing, it's not working,
Speaker 2: so try other things. And some of the things one
Speaker 2: of the things that I remember she said was like
Speaker 2: she literally said, throw a rock and wherever it lands,
Speaker 2: put a camera there. It's like wow really, so yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: just it's a way to do random sampling in a way,
Speaker 2: So do that. It's like, no, kidding, unbelievable. Yeah. So
Speaker 2: I'd like to love to have a chance to pick
Speaker 2: her brain again, since she has so much field time
Speaker 2: in Sumatra studying that other little thing that she says,
Speaker 2: he's ad nocturnal primate that she's studying out there. So yeah, anyway,
Speaker 2: a lot of different ways to approach the game camera thing.
Speaker 2: It'd be really interesting to find out what these folks
Speaker 2: were doing.
Speaker 3: When I spoke with Gareth Patterson the first time that
Speaker 3: I interviewed him. He made it really because he made
Speaker 3: an observation in the book that I brought up that
Speaker 3: I wanted to dive into, and it was really interesting.
Speaker 3: His takeaway was that basically, you know, as someone who's
Speaker 3: pursued animals in the wild, especially like rare, elusive animals,
Speaker 3: he said, sometimes I think that our presuppositions, whether conscious
Speaker 3: or unconscious, or explicit or implicit, are actually taking us
Speaker 3: further away from where they're most likely to be encountered
Speaker 3: than we think. And he had said, like when he
Speaker 3: first started pursuing the elephants there and the Nisne forests,
Speaker 3: you know, he would find tracks and he would find dung,
Speaker 3: and you know, he was constantly revisiting these places, but
Speaker 3: he couldn't he couldn't have a sighting. He was trying
Speaker 3: to lay eyes on him. I think maybe once or
Speaker 3: twice he had caught, you know, a glimpse of like
Speaker 3: a patch of gray skin through the brush as one
Speaker 3: got away from him. And then he just said, you know,
Speaker 3: one day, randomly, his girlfriend and him were going to
Speaker 3: go walk the dog, and she was like, why don't
Speaker 3: we just go walk them up in the forest instead
Speaker 3: of you know, around the neighborhood or whatever the case was.
Speaker 3: And so they drove up there and got out. We're
Speaker 3: walking the dog down the road at time that he
Speaker 3: wouldn't usually be out there and in a place he
Speaker 3: wouldn't usually go looking, and he watched a mother and
Speaker 3: a calf. They watched it through binoculars out in the
Speaker 3: open for like an hour. And he had said, you know,
Speaker 3: I was looking for elephants when I had the old
Speaker 3: tongue siding. And when I started looking for the old tongue,
Speaker 3: I started seeing the leopards. And then I'd start looking
Speaker 3: for the leopards and I'd run into the elephants. And
Speaker 3: so there is that sense of like you can't find
Speaker 3: something when you're looking for it. But you know, he
Speaker 3: didn't have that sort of like supernatural metaphysical take on
Speaker 3: it as much as he said, you know, sometimes I
Speaker 3: just think that we make all these decisions based on
Speaker 3: our assumptions and they're just wrong. And you know, if
Speaker 3: you if you practice something that's more random, your odds
Speaker 3: actually go up. Like instead of planning for days and weeks,
Speaker 3: like I'm going to go to this spot and stake
Speaker 3: out this area and this that, So there could be
Speaker 3: something to that with camera placement or who knows what
Speaker 3: else too.
Speaker 2: I think it's an interesting I think that's a really
Speaker 2: good take on things, and it kind of mirrors the
Speaker 2: experience of long term witnesses, you know, the people who
Speaker 2: live out in the woods and occasionally have sasquatches around.
Speaker 2: It's when they break their own habits that they actually
Speaker 2: see these things.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: I was having a conversation with with someone who listens
Speaker 2: to the podcast about a good ways to do it,
Speaker 2: and this person was kept suggesting go to the same place,
Speaker 2: the same time and whatever, every single every single week,
Speaker 2: the same things every single week, and that way it
Speaker 2: adds like a baseline, a scientific rigidity, I guess, you know,
Speaker 2: like a method that other people can follow and stuff.
Speaker 2: And I'm thinking that I don't know if that. I mean, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: sure that would be good. But all you're gonna what
Speaker 2: you're gonna get, maybe not all you're gonna get, but
Speaker 2: what you're mostly going to get are the animals who
Speaker 2: have their habits that happen to the coincide with yours,
Speaker 2: and certainly sasquatches have these habits, but I'm not so
Speaker 2: sure they're as predictable as mine, you know, So I
Speaker 2: don't know. I think that the best Bigfoot stuff comes
Speaker 2: from being at the wrong place when nobody expected it,
Speaker 2: you know. I really think that, so, yeah, because I
Speaker 2: mean after going to the spot now for four years
Speaker 2: or something, there's not a lot of patterns developing.
Speaker 5: Well, it's just like Paul Freeman with he saw that
Speaker 5: one and filled that one because he went there in
Speaker 5: the morning, because he went out of his he wasn't
Speaker 5: on his normal pattern. He went like an off time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he went later. He went flowers later than normal
Speaker 2: on that particular day, and maybe the sasquatches were getting
Speaker 2: used to it. I don't know. I don't know. It's
Speaker 2: hard to say. I do think that randomness and luck
Speaker 2: are something that really come into play in Bigfoot, at
Speaker 2: least for sure. That's just that's my feeling on it
Speaker 2: at least. But again, data would be nice, but there's
Speaker 2: not enough data to really compare much with right now.
Speaker 2: So I just try once a week. I don't always
Speaker 2: go on the same day, and I don't even go
Speaker 2: to I try to go to the same two places
Speaker 2: every single week, and then if I have time I
Speaker 2: go somewhere else too, or if I go back for
Speaker 2: a second day, I go somewhere else. That sort of
Speaker 2: thing that's been helping a little bit, but again not
Speaker 2: as much as I'd like. I haven't put my eyes
Speaker 2: on one yet, So we'll see. Stay tuned for more
Speaker 2: Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2: After these messages.
Speaker 5: We all say this one from Nature dot com. I'm
Speaker 5: home or just adapted to step desert climate extremes one
Speaker 5: million years ago? About how they they assumed that they were,
Speaker 5: you know, in really narrow specific spots that you know,
Speaker 5: like like a little ecological niche that they didn't habit,
Speaker 5: but they were much more like the almost they thought, like,
Speaker 5: we knew homebos savings went all over the world, but
Speaker 5: we didn't know that Homo erectus was able to adapt
Speaker 5: to different extremes of climate as much as as much
Speaker 5: as they were. They don't know from this this paper
Speaker 5: they're talking about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, when you look at the article, the
Speaker 2: places that they lived make a lot of sense because
Speaker 2: that would be the places where the most food is
Speaker 2: and the most variety, like the fluvial landscapes where the
Speaker 2: you know, the rivers are flowing out of the mountains
Speaker 2: or whatever into the desert the environment. Actually, I learned
Speaker 2: what fluvial stuff was when I visited Death Valley, because
Speaker 2: that's where you can see that kind of thing. It's
Speaker 2: basically a river coming out of the high lands and
Speaker 2: then spreading out widely like a fan across the flattered desert,
Speaker 2: usually desert like environments. That's what fluvial landscapes are. And
Speaker 2: of course that's that's where the water is. That's where
Speaker 2: flooding is going to be. So it's gonna be a
Speaker 2: lot of interesting to be washing down from the woods,
Speaker 2: from the hills. There's that's where a lot of the
Speaker 2: animals are going to be hanging out. And and at
Speaker 2: least and I remember in Death Valley, I went to
Speaker 2: the wonderful museum they have there. That's where most of
Speaker 2: the human artifacts also came from, which makes a lot
Speaker 2: of sense because Homo erectus almost sapiens. They're gonna there's
Speaker 2: a lot of overlapping niche there. There's a lot of
Speaker 2: overlapping needs and just preferences really, so, uh, the fact
Speaker 2: that Homo erectus is doing this, it just again hats
Speaker 2: off to Homo erectus because they are they were. I
Speaker 2: think that they're kind of the champions.
Speaker 5: Man.
Speaker 2: They are the as far as I know at least,
Speaker 2: I could be incorrect, and if I am, please tell me.
Speaker 2: But I think that they're the probably the most successful
Speaker 2: hominin species. I mean, they they they were around for
Speaker 2: a long long time, way longer than we are, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean, because we've been around for about three hundred
Speaker 2: thousand years I think is the number that the people
Speaker 2: are thinking at this point, and that might change and
Speaker 2: we might have been around longer. We'll see about three
Speaker 2: hundred thousand years for Homo sapiens. But I mean Homo
Speaker 2: erectus was around for millions, right, like at least a
Speaker 2: million or.
Speaker 5: Two two million years there you go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's that's that's like seven times longer than
Speaker 2: we've been around.
Speaker 5: Yeah, two million years, that's that's that's incredibly long. I mean,
Speaker 5: we're not going to I doubt we're going to reach
Speaker 5: that record.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't think so either. Yeah, but again
Speaker 2: it goes back to adaptability. These things were smart enough
Speaker 2: to adapt to their environment. Of course, they had tools,
Speaker 2: they had fire, they had all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: But they were adaptable to the changing environments. You know,
Speaker 2: there was a climate change during that time that affected them.
Speaker 2: They adapted to different biomes in different source of habitats
Speaker 2: and different food resources, and they spread out all throughout Asia,
Speaker 2: in Africa and Asia, but they were very successful. I'm
Speaker 2: kind of surprised they didn't make it to North America
Speaker 2: at some point. I guess maybe the land Bridge wasn't
Speaker 2: around when they're when they're in their heyday. I don't
Speaker 2: really know. But really astonishing the species in many many ways.
Speaker 2: And remember this is one of my favorites, just because
Speaker 2: the type specimen, the holotype, the first one ever discovered
Speaker 2: that told us that these things existed at all, came
Speaker 2: from Southeast Asia. But yet we found out later that
Speaker 2: they're older versions in Africa. So it really really neat
Speaker 2: species to study and we can learn a lot from.
Speaker 2: So they weren't specialized. I don't think they Probably groups
Speaker 2: of them were, like cultures of them were, but they weren't.
Speaker 2: They clearly as a species itself, they didn't. It didn't
Speaker 2: rely on one thing like pandas rely on bamboo or
Speaker 2: something like that. They didn't rely on one thing which
Speaker 2: enabled them to be so successful and spread over such
Speaker 2: a huge area. And I would argue that sasquatches and
Speaker 2: their ilk are the same way. They're smart enough, they're
Speaker 2: to get outside their their niche niches. They're not dependent
Speaker 2: on one particular kind of food or plant that if
Speaker 2: that food or plant went extinct or couldn't find it,
Speaker 2: they'd all die. Sasquatches liked home like homeorect this have
Speaker 2: ecological flexibility essentially, is what it comes down to. And
Speaker 2: that's what allowed them, allows them to be so successful.
Speaker 2: And whether the sasquat or the Yawi or the yarin
Speaker 2: in China or anywhere else in the world, you know,
Speaker 2: that kind of thing, if those are sasquatches or not,
Speaker 2: it shows that hominins are smart enough not to be paint,
Speaker 2: not to paint themselves in an ecological corner. You know.
Speaker 3: It's a very good at niche switching. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, you gotta wonder if if like some other hominins,
Speaker 2: you know, and what we what little we know about
Speaker 2: them when we're looking at the you know, what trace
Speaker 2: evidence we have these other hominins. Maybe it's like you know,
Speaker 2: toothwear or tools that are found in association with them.
Speaker 2: You got to wonder if this specialization that might be
Speaker 2: perceived by we humans looking at whatever little evidence we
Speaker 2: have right now, if actually the specialization just this is
Speaker 2: more of an incomplete look at the archaeological evidence than
Speaker 2: true ecological limits. I suspect that Hominin's, being as smart
Speaker 2: as we are, probably were much more flexible I think
Speaker 2: than many maybe current day paleoanthropologists give them a credit for.
Speaker 2: And the ones that were not flexible had the shortest
Speaker 2: evolutionary existence before their particular branch, you know, bit the dust.
Speaker 3: That's the advantage of generalists is, you know, generalized omnivores,
Speaker 3: which at least with Gigantipithecus, we know that they had
Speaker 3: a very broad, diverse diet, even though they weren't necessarily omnivorous,
Speaker 3: or at least we don't have the evidence of omnivary,
Speaker 3: but within like an herbivorous diet, very very broad, massive
Speaker 3: array of food stuff. So they certainly weren't the bamboo
Speaker 3: specialists that they were once thought to be. That's the
Speaker 3: advantage that generalists like that have is that you know,
Speaker 3: they have the ability to occupy multiple different environments and
Speaker 3: do adapt and to be flexible, not only have dietary flexibility,
Speaker 3: but to also be able to inhabit these different environments.
Speaker 3: So it was fascinating to read this particular article about
Speaker 3: Homo erectus for sure, and think about what clearly has
Speaker 3: to be the most flexible species that's ever existed, being
Speaker 3: Homo sapiens and all the niche switching that we do constantly,
Speaker 3: not only across evolutionary time, but in modern day as well.
Speaker 3: So I think there are a lot of implications for
Speaker 3: the sasquatch and other mystery apes like you mentioned.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and you know, it makes me wonder since
Speaker 2: home Erectus was so amazingly successful, I've heard that they
Speaker 2: are around very very recently. I think that most of
Speaker 2: the most of the stuff you're going to find online
Speaker 2: indicates they went I don't even I don't know when
Speaker 2: they went extinct.
Speaker 5: They said one hundred and twenty thousand years ago.
Speaker 2: It's pretty recent, man. And certainly if that's if that
Speaker 2: number is what is generally thought to be true, that
Speaker 2: certainly wasn't the last home erectus. You got to wonder
Speaker 2: if any of these mystery apes around the world, you know,
Speaker 2: these sasquatch like critters and various corners of the globe,
Speaker 2: if any of them are relic homo erectus in some
Speaker 2: sort of way, I mean, Neanderthals and Dennis Opens, those
Speaker 2: might be the almisty or who knows what's going on
Speaker 2: over there, right, But maybe they're homo erectus. I mean,
Speaker 2: you just don't know. Because these things are around for
Speaker 2: a long long time. What could cause something that's so
Speaker 2: adaptable and so smart and all that to go extinct?
Speaker 2: But then again, you know, like they're not apparently these
Speaker 2: whatever these things are in Eastern Europe and all that stuff,
Speaker 2: they're not using fire, So it seems kind of weird
Speaker 2: that they would let they would not be using fires
Speaker 2: still if they were still around, and I think home
Speaker 2: Erectus had fire, right, I'm pretty sure it did. Seems
Speaker 2: like that's an awfully useful adaptation to just get rid of.
Speaker 5: If you're on the run, though, if you're on the lamb,
Speaker 5: like you know, like an escape beer, you know, prisoner war, whatever,
Speaker 5: you don't light fires because i'd say, you get found.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, maybe it's a conscious decision. But or they
Speaker 2: and they just lost the technology, is what you're suggesting,
Speaker 2: because of their clandestine lifestyle.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think I think that that could have that
Speaker 5: could account for if that's if these things are then
Speaker 5: like if they do try to be something that we
Speaker 5: know in the record, that fossil record that had the
Speaker 5: ability to use fire, then I mean, I know of
Speaker 5: people swear they still the Bigfoot still use fire, but
Speaker 5: I don't think they do that's the reality at all,
Speaker 5: But it could be. I mean it could have been,
Speaker 5: like you know, if if every time they had a
Speaker 5: fire they had guys with spears showing up, they might
Speaker 5: quit doing that.
Speaker 2: I guess it's true. Yeah, I did a quick search.
Speaker 2: I got one hundred and eight to hundred and seventeen
Speaker 2: thousand years ago for home erectus. So it's a blink
Speaker 2: of an eye. Man, it's a blink of an eye.
Speaker 2: And those are certainly are not the last home erectus
Speaker 2: that survived.
Speaker 5: So no, yeah, I was a fire one or so small.
Speaker 5: How long is erectors around? For two million years? And
Speaker 5: how much how much do you think you could you
Speaker 5: can even fill up a bedroom with the amount of
Speaker 5: bones you have of erectus I have imagine, I mean,
Speaker 5: I know we have a lot of like more so
Speaker 5: than I think any other ancient species of hominin.
Speaker 3: But I think they have more Naliti than any of
Speaker 3: the species. And that's just mostly all from the Rising
Speaker 3: Star Cave because they were preserved down there.
Speaker 5: So so yeah, so in two million years, we don't
Speaker 5: know really that much about I mean, they got more
Speaker 5: of Nalidi and that's I mean that would fill up
Speaker 5: what not even not even like a closet. It would
Speaker 5: take to hold like a toad probably like you know,
Speaker 5: like a storage toat could hold.
Speaker 3: It all, probably like a truck bed or something for Naldi.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that they're around for what four hundred thousand years
Speaker 5: of Nalidi.
Speaker 3: I don't know how long they were around for.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think that the Nalidi isn't is
Speaker 2: a Naliti just known from that one site.
Speaker 3: Yes, but there's many, many individuals.
Speaker 2: Well still, you got to wonder, like what what what
Speaker 2: kind of forces would drive home erectos if they were
Speaker 2: so darn good at doing what they do, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it looks like with Naliti there are one five
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty bones representing seven hundred and thirty seven
Speaker 3: different skeletal elements and at least fifteen different individuals, So
Speaker 3: I'm trying to see what the case is with Erectus.
Speaker 2: Hats off to home Erectus.
Speaker 3: He's a real stand up guy, nice, excellent as a
Speaker 3: dad joke Cliff could be proud of I am proud
Speaker 3: of you.
Speaker 2: It's my boy.
Speaker 5: That's more like your dirty uncle joke.
Speaker 2: Clif the dad bobo's the dirty uncle.
Speaker 3: Well, there's a couple of other articles, and we did
Speaker 3: get some a few additional questions from the Honorary Pigeons
Speaker 3: over there on Patreon, So I don't know whenever you
Speaker 3: guys feel like hopping over to that side of the
Speaker 3: conversation to dig into some other things, but one of
Speaker 3: which was submitted by a member, and occasionally listeners do
Speaker 3: submit articles. But yeah, I would definitely encourage more of you.
Speaker 3: If you come across something that you think is rather squatchy,
Speaker 3: even if it's not directly squatch related, but you think
Speaker 3: it's relevant, please send it in because you know, we're
Speaker 3: always accumulating these, and it'd be great to see more
Speaker 3: of those come in from listeners for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know what occurred to me, and it
Speaker 2: says we're kind of closing down shop here and moving
Speaker 2: over to the member section, and of course if you
Speaker 2: want to be a member, hit that link and do
Speaker 2: all that stuff, because you get these episodes with zero
Speaker 2: commercials in them at all, and you also get a
Speaker 2: bunch of extra stuff like pictures and links and all
Speaker 2: this other stuff. You get a picture of Bobo wearing
Speaker 2: sunglasses and ear like all that kind of stuff, all
Speaker 2: the fun stuff that you hear is talking about. It's
Speaker 2: only for the members. But you know what occurred to
Speaker 2: me is we're still selling T shirts and hoodies. We
Speaker 2: never talk about that. We never ever talk about that,
Speaker 2: and it might be a good thing because how fun
Speaker 2: is it to see these things out in public at conferences.
Speaker 2: So I'd like to push that just for a second,
Speaker 2: if you don't mind, go to sasquatchprints dot com and
Speaker 2: hit the link that says Bigfoot and Beyond and you
Speaker 2: can buy Bigfoot and Beyond like merchandise and stuff. You know.
Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't make us a lot of money
Speaker 2: or anything. That's mostly fun. I think we make like
Speaker 2: like two or three bucks a shirt. It's not a
Speaker 2: really big money thing for us. You've really got to
Speaker 2: understand that the joy of it is seeing these things
Speaker 2: at conferences, and so check this out. I've got a
Speaker 2: bunch of conferences coming up. I'm going to be in
Speaker 2: mountain Hood here second week I think in April. I'm
Speaker 2: going to be in Esta's Park in Colorado. A week
Speaker 2: or two after that, I'm going to be to the
Speaker 2: Ohio conference first weekend in May. I'm doing Charlie Raymond's
Speaker 2: conference out in Kentucky the last weekend. I've got a
Speaker 2: lot of stuff coming up. If you come to the
Speaker 2: table and you're wearing a Bigfoot and Beyond shirt or
Speaker 2: hoodie or something like that, I'll give you a free sticker.
Speaker 2: So if you want to do that, feel free to
Speaker 2: come up and say, hey, look at me. Remember you're
Speaker 2: gonna give me a sticker, right, and I will. I'll
Speaker 2: give you a free sticker. So come on up to
Speaker 2: the table. We're in the merch, and you know, eat
Speaker 2: a free sticker. I just think it's fun to see
Speaker 2: these things. We'll take a picture together, we'll put on
Speaker 2: the member section. It'll be fun. So go to sasquatchprints
Speaker 2: dot com and get your Bigfoot Beyond merch.
Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, I love seeing those. Yeah.
Speaker 6: We have forgotten to mention that for a while I
Speaker 6: always put the link in the show notes of every episode,
Speaker 6: but I've forgotten to mention it. And then when I
Speaker 6: was with you at the NABC in January, Brandon and
Speaker 6: another artist friend of his were there and they were
Speaker 6: designing a new shirt right then and there for one
Speaker 6: of my suggestions. So hopefully that thing's ready to roll out,
Speaker 6: because they had did a pretty cool design when I
Speaker 6: was there.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, kind can reach out to him and spur
Speaker 2: him on a little bit. See what's going on with that?
Speaker 2: So yeah, sasquashprints dot com. Hit that link, buy a
Speaker 2: shirt if you feel like it, and come up and
Speaker 2: see me. You'll get a free sticker. So that's kind
Speaker 2: of fun, all.
Speaker 5: Right, I guess that. Bigfoot and Beyond thanks for joining us,
Speaker 5: all right, folks, Well until next week. We'll see you then,
Speaker 5: But until then, y'all keep it squatchy.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
Speaker 2: If you liked what you heard, please rate and review
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