WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:06.919 You're listening to KFI A M six forty on demand. Brett, 2 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:08.279 Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. 3 00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:09.919 Hello Jesus, how are you? 4 00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:11.199 I am well, Brett? How are you? 5 00:00:11.800 --> 00:00:12.000 Oh? 6 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:12.640 I'm pretty good? 7 00:00:12.839 --> 00:00:15.240 Okay, good here, and you're very chipper for this time 8 00:00:15.279 --> 00:00:16.320 of day. 9 00:00:16.359 --> 00:00:17.440 Well, I work nice. 10 00:00:17.719 --> 00:00:21.399 Oh excellent. So you're coming, you're coming down, ending your day? 11 00:00:21.399 --> 00:00:23.079 Coming down? Yeah? 12 00:00:23.239 --> 00:00:24.000 How can I help you? 13 00:00:24.519 --> 00:00:24.879 All right? 14 00:00:24.879 --> 00:00:27.839 Well, I have a would you consider the God of 15 00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:28.800 the Bible good? 16 00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:32.439 Well? Yes, well I'm kind of partial to that. I 17 00:00:32.920 --> 00:00:34.920 assume you would have thought that I'd answer that it 18 00:00:34.960 --> 00:00:37.600 would be weird for this show. Yes. 19 00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:41.359 The question is when an atheist will point to something 20 00:00:41.399 --> 00:00:43.439 in the Bible and say that that is a sign 21 00:00:43.479 --> 00:00:47.320 of God's immorality, that is a sign of God being evil. Yes, 22 00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:49.960 then they will say that you simply cannot judge God. 23 00:00:50.840 --> 00:00:53.840 But by saying that God is good, you are also 24 00:00:53.960 --> 00:00:56.320 making a judgment absolutely. 25 00:00:56.000 --> 00:01:00.039 Judging absolutely, and that would be that would be a 26 00:00:59.880 --> 00:01:03.399 fallacy for the Christian to put themselves in that kind 27 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:07.799 of argumentation. It's it's it's not the proper way to 28 00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:08.319 look at it. 29 00:01:09.120 --> 00:01:11.439 Then, how then, how can you tell that God is good? 30 00:01:11.879 --> 00:01:14.640 Okay? Well, there's a couple of things going on here. First, uh, 31 00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:18.200 When whenever you are in a situation like this, defining 32 00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:22.879 your terms is important. So defining what judgment is is 33 00:01:22.920 --> 00:01:25.599 important because there is a difference between judgment. You're the 34 00:01:25.640 --> 00:01:28.519 same way, Brett, You're exactly the same way. If I 35 00:01:28.560 --> 00:01:29.959 came up to you and I said I don't like 36 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:31.959 the way you did X, Y and Z, you'd say, oh, 37 00:01:32.040 --> 00:01:33.359 you know what, I don't want you to judge me. 38 00:01:33.439 --> 00:01:34.760 But if I came up to you and said, wow, 39 00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:36.680 that was really great that what you did, Brett, you 40 00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:39.239 wouldn't go, I don't want you to judge me. So 41 00:01:39.480 --> 00:01:43.400 it's it's it's important to understand what judgment means in 42 00:01:43.439 --> 00:01:48.319 that context. When scripture talks about uh, well, scripture, when 43 00:01:48.319 --> 00:01:51.799 it talks about thou shalt not judge, lest ye be judged, 44 00:01:52.159 --> 00:01:56.439 it's talking about thinking that you're better than somebody, or 45 00:01:56.480 --> 00:01:59.599 being condescending in a way that you aren't looking or 46 00:01:59.640 --> 00:02:01.760 taking account the things that you do in life. You're 47 00:02:01.799 --> 00:02:05.599 merely looking outwardly constantly at what everyone else does. It's 48 00:02:05.599 --> 00:02:09.639 not about justice. Of course, you're to judge. Christians should judge, 49 00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:10.759 everyone should judge. 50 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:13.479 I'm not saying that judgment is wrong. I'm saying, if 51 00:02:13.479 --> 00:02:16.199 you're telling the atheists that they cannot judge judge God bad, 52 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:18.080 then you can also not call him good. 53 00:02:18.240 --> 00:02:20.439 Yes, which brings me to my second point. So that 54 00:02:20.560 --> 00:02:24.759 was just about defining the term about judgment what judgment is. Secondly, 55 00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:27.639 there's a qualifier that's missing in that statement from the 56 00:02:27.719 --> 00:02:29.560 Christian which is why I have a problem with it, 57 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:31.879 and that is that there are certain things that you 58 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:36.159 can't judge God above God. Going back to my definition 59 00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:39.599 about being outside of the judgment, So if you're constantly 60 00:02:39.639 --> 00:02:43.719 judging others and not looking at yourself, there's a problem, 61 00:02:43.719 --> 00:02:47.520 a problem. No, I'm saying with let's let's take it. 62 00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:49.800 It's not a personal thing. That we're looking at the 63 00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:54.879 greater theological or philosophical ramifications of that statement. So in 64 00:02:54.919 --> 00:02:59.879 this case, somebody is saying you can't judge God is 65 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:04.759 not actually actually correct. That's that's not correct. You can't 66 00:03:05.159 --> 00:03:09.120 oversee judgment upon God. Man is not high enough. 67 00:03:09.560 --> 00:03:10.960 You can't actually enforce. 68 00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:13.919 That judgment exactly. So really what you're doing is you 69 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:17.400 can make observations about God and you can see those 70 00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:20.960 things in God, but you can't judge God's decisions. So 71 00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:24.280 that's what the statement needs. It needs more qualifiers to 72 00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:27.680 understand what kind of judgment you're doing. You can't sit 73 00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:31.280 in judgment of God. So for God to. 74 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:33.800 Actually exist, yes, then you could not. He would have 75 00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:36.039 all the powers, so you could not actually say. You 76 00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:38.039 could say that he was wrong all you wanted, but 77 00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:39.120 it wouldn't matter. 78 00:03:39.039 --> 00:03:43.960 Exactly because God, God, by definition, is a transcendent, So if. 79 00:03:43.800 --> 00:03:47.199 It trans in that respect, doesn't, well, that's. 80 00:03:47.319 --> 00:03:49.360 It's you know, a little anthropomorphic on your part if 81 00:03:49.400 --> 00:03:51.599 you want to apply those human attributes and you want 82 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:53.800 to say, well, that seems this way to you, but 83 00:03:54.520 --> 00:03:56.599 really you're still have to pull it down to a 84 00:03:56.680 --> 00:03:58.960 human element. A mob boss is just a human who 85 00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:01.719 thinks he's better than a human. God is better than 86 00:04:01.719 --> 00:04:05.000 a human, so over you. 87 00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:07.639 You cannot. They are just doing whatever they feel like. Yeah, 88 00:04:07.639 --> 00:04:09.199 but there's no choice in the matter. 89 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:11.599 No, but there's a righteousness to it. A mob boss 90 00:04:11.639 --> 00:04:16.920 has their own wants. Well, because God is justice. There's 91 00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:19.120 a difference. Now you're trying to parse the fact that 92 00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:21.040 there are human beings that abuse that. 93 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:24.319 God is justice. I'm sorry, what makes you think that 94 00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:25.240 God is justice? 95 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:27.279 Well, the show is that Jesus Christ show we'd come 96 00:04:27.319 --> 00:04:32.879 from the generic Judeo Christian priests. You got to give 97 00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:35.879 me that one, a little bit, pardon, you got to 98 00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:38.360 give me that one. I mean, the show pretty much 99 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:41.319 lays it out in the in the name there, it's 100 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:44.639 right there for everyone to see. I'm going to come from. 101 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:47.160 I'm going to tell you that there are things not 102 00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:50.399 only in scripture, but outside of scripture that point to 103 00:04:50.439 --> 00:04:52.399 the justice and the love of God. As a matter 104 00:04:52.439 --> 00:04:55.040 of fact, Brett, you telling me that there are things 105 00:04:55.079 --> 00:04:58.000 that are good or bad in this world comes from where? 106 00:04:59.199 --> 00:05:00.959 Why do you judge what's good or bad? Why do 107 00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:03.000 you why do you say something's good or something's bad 108 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:03.480 in life? 109 00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:03.839 For you? 110 00:05:03.959 --> 00:05:06.319 Things that are harmful and things that you're beneficial. 111 00:05:07.160 --> 00:05:10.319 No no, no, no, no, no no, that's that's hedonism. You 112 00:05:10.319 --> 00:05:12.839 don't believe that because they're who no, no, no. 113 00:05:12.759 --> 00:05:16.639 Not he not hedonism. If I slam my hand, this 114 00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:18.759 idea that we can only judge things wrong because there's 115 00:05:18.759 --> 00:05:22.000 some kind of ultimate standard we're judging against is silly. Okay, 116 00:05:22.439 --> 00:05:25.040 you tell me my hand in a car door that hurts, okay, 117 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:27.160 But I'm not seeing some kind of ultimate standard of 118 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:27.720 non hurt. 119 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:31.120 Okay, So everything that hurts is bad. 120 00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:35.560 Depending on how depending on how it goes. 121 00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:41.720 Is everything is everything that causes pain bad? Is everything 122 00:05:41.720 --> 00:05:45.360 that causes pleasure good? Okay? So that's a that's a 123 00:05:45.399 --> 00:05:46.839 lousy standard. Wouldn't you say? 124 00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:48.399 I did not say that, sir? 125 00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:51.079 Okay? So is pleasure good? 126 00:05:52.279 --> 00:05:54.279 Pleasure can be good, It can be good. 127 00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:57.680 So when does pleasure become So when does pleasure become bad? 128 00:05:58.480 --> 00:05:59.920 When it becomes harmful to you? 129 00:06:00.199 --> 00:06:01.360 And what is harm there? 130 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:04.160 If you just sit there having pleasure all day long? 131 00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:08.079 And what is harm if you just sit there with 132 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:10.720 just pleasure all day long and start to ignore things 133 00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:13.240 that you need, start to ignore things that are more 134 00:06:13.319 --> 00:06:14.399 beneficial towards you? 135 00:06:14.600 --> 00:06:17.360 Says who says who? 136 00:06:19.839 --> 00:06:22.079 Well says reality says reality? 137 00:06:22.120 --> 00:06:25.399 And what context says who? What do you? You're you're 138 00:06:25.519 --> 00:06:28.360 using circular reasoning as you go back and say, well, 139 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:31.240 if it's pleasure but only pleasure sometimes. 140 00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:33.040 Sir, if you sit there shooting up on drugs all 141 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:35.920 day long, you will feel pleasure, but at the same 142 00:06:35.959 --> 00:06:38.120 time you're doing psysical damage to your body. 143 00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:40.480 What if you what if you shoot up? What if 144 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:43.519 you shoot up only partial during the day, so maybe 145 00:06:43.600 --> 00:06:44.639 six hours. 146 00:06:45.839 --> 00:06:48.160 And you're still doing damage to your body. That's sort 147 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:48.920 of your decision. 148 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:51.759 What kind of damage. Now, if you cut open a person, 149 00:06:52.199 --> 00:06:53.600 does that cause damage to them? 150 00:06:55.759 --> 00:06:58.399 Technically yes, it depends on what your what your point is. 151 00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:01.040 That's That's what I'm saying, is that you keep adding 152 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:04.199 a qualifier to it. So there is no standard for 153 00:07:04.279 --> 00:07:06.519 what is good or bad. You have to keep judging 154 00:07:06.600 --> 00:07:08.720 whether it's good or bad based on what you think 155 00:07:08.759 --> 00:07:12.120 is good or bad, or pleasurable or harmful. There is 156 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:16.399 no universal what is pleasurable or harmful unless you're the 157 00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:20.160 one that's You kind of keep saying, well, I deem 158 00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:24.839 this pleasurable, I deem this harmful. But who does that society? 159 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:27.639 We get together into society ourselves, gotcha. 160 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:31.600 It's so it's the society that decides what's good and bad. 161 00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:34.600 Societies generally do yes, okay. 162 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:38.360 Are there societies that do things that are bad? 163 00:07:38.759 --> 00:07:39.120 Yes? 164 00:07:39.319 --> 00:07:44.360 Okay? Then who judges that society. 165 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:44.120 The people in that society. 166 00:07:45.079 --> 00:07:48.360 No, because they're the ones doing it bad. They didn't, 167 00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:54.319 you know, not see Germany didn't self regulate, okay, and 168 00:07:54.399 --> 00:07:57.839 that so that society, that society did not self regulate 169 00:07:57.839 --> 00:07:59.040 who regulated. 170 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:01.519 Them, Your society of the world. 171 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:04.000 I see. So as long as the world sees it 172 00:08:04.120 --> 00:08:05.360 as okay, then it's okay. 173 00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:08.920 I cannot give you an ultimate stand. 174 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:11.399 No you can't. That's the point, Brett. That's what I 175 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:13.879 want you to say. You're obviously not stupid, so I 176 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:16.319 want you to see that all you do is push 177 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:20.600 it upon another chain link, another chain link, because this 178 00:08:20.839 --> 00:08:24.360 infinite regression of maybe this, maybe that, and maybe this, 179 00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:29.000 and that's not how it works. Eventually, you have to 180 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:32.679 get to a place outside of that society to make 181 00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:36.879 that judgment. A can in a standard measuring rod, because 182 00:08:36.919 --> 00:08:38.639 you can't just say an inch is an inch as 183 00:08:38.679 --> 00:08:42.919 an inch. Somebody has to agree on that, and it 184 00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:48.000 has to be outside of the inch. The measurement tool 185 00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:53.840 can't be the ultimate measuring tool because it's temporal. It's 186 00:08:53.879 --> 00:08:58.519 not it's not infinite, and that's what you're looking for. 187 00:08:59.320 --> 00:09:02.080 That's what you need. That is what defines it. And 188 00:09:02.120 --> 00:09:04.759 we could have been here all day, Brett, and you 189 00:09:04.799 --> 00:09:06.799 would have had to come up with one more reason. 190 00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:15.720 Whereas the theist doesn't. It stops at God, God alone, 191 00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:25.679 the transcendent lawgiver, who is always in the law Wannie, 192 00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:27.080 Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. 193 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:29.200 Good morning, Jesus. 194 00:09:29.240 --> 00:09:30.039 I'll have a question. 195 00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:31.879 I have a question for you. 196 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:32.480 Okay. 197 00:09:32.600 --> 00:09:36.480 I read a book called The Appointment with You Always, 198 00:09:36.639 --> 00:09:40.080 and it was talking about the established and it's meant 199 00:09:40.120 --> 00:09:45.639 that the established the establish originally was established on the 200 00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:49.799 moon cycles, and that the reason that it was changed 201 00:09:50.039 --> 00:09:52.000 was because it commercially. 202 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:55.159 Applies, because of because of what commercial it. 203 00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:58.919 Applies, that the merchant wanted to establish a certain. 204 00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:03.039 Day like this say, oh, gotcha, Okay, Well, no, that's false. 205 00:10:03.080 --> 00:10:06.879 Now your phone's a little muddy there, so I'm gonna 206 00:10:06.879 --> 00:10:09.080 put you on hold because it's kind of hard to understand, 207 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:13.320 and I'm guessing that the listeners having a hard time understanding. 208 00:10:13.559 --> 00:10:16.000 So essentially, you're asking about the Sabbath and that the 209 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:21.240 Sabbath was changed. No, the Sabbath was established in Genesis, 210 00:10:21.279 --> 00:10:23.879 chapter two, verse two, and it says by the seventh 211 00:10:23.960 --> 00:10:28.639 day God completed his work with which his hands had done, 212 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:32.600 and he rested on the seventh day from all of 213 00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:36.519 his work which he had done. There's the first sign 214 00:10:36.559 --> 00:10:41.519 of the Sabbath. Sabbath is the Hebrew word shabbat, by 215 00:10:41.559 --> 00:10:46.879 the word for Sabbath and the Greek word sabatan. They 216 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:50.039 both mean to rest from labor. That's what it means. 217 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:53.600 So that's where it comes from. And you find it 218 00:10:53.639 --> 00:10:57.960 also in the Ten Commandments. You see it in Exodus 219 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:04.120 twenty eight through. But a lot of people get the 220 00:11:04.159 --> 00:11:11.480 too confused between the Sabbath, which is Saturday, and they 221 00:11:11.559 --> 00:11:17.440 get that confused with the Christian day of rest after 222 00:11:17.480 --> 00:11:21.120 the Resurrection, which is Sunday. Okay, it's it's referred to 223 00:11:21.159 --> 00:11:25.039 as the Lord's Day. So the Sabbath is still on Saturday. 224 00:11:25.159 --> 00:11:28.600 The Lord's Day is on Sunday. The majority of Christians 225 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:31.720 practice their faith and rest and go to church and 226 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:36.279 all that on Sunday, the Lord's Day, not Sabbath. Now 227 00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:39.679 we're there there changes in calendars and and things like 228 00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:43.320 that throughout the years. Yes, but the Sabbath is still 229 00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:47.159 considered the last day of the week. It's not a 230 00:11:47.200 --> 00:11:51.480 particular uh, it's not a particular day per se. It's 231 00:11:51.519 --> 00:11:53.919 the last day of the week. And that's you know, 232 00:11:53.960 --> 00:11:57.879 that's important because people get caught up in in the 233 00:11:57.919 --> 00:12:01.080 Sabbath and start almost worshiping it, Like is this if 234 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:03.200 the Sabbath is the thing to worship and if you 235 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:05.480 remember when I was asked about the Sabbath in scripture, 236 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:08.720 I said that Sabbath was made for man, not man 237 00:12:08.759 --> 00:12:15.279 for the Sabbath. And also look up Colossians chapter two, 238 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:19.080 verse sixteen. Therefore, let no one act as your judge 239 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:21.799 in regard to the food or drink, or in respect 240 00:12:21.799 --> 00:12:24.240 to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day. 241 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:27.799 Meaning don't be judged by those that say that you 242 00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:30.039 have to worship this way, or you have to worship 243 00:12:30.039 --> 00:12:32.759 on that day, or any of those things. The important 244 00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:36.919 part of the Sabbath is that you stop that there's 245 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:41.559 one day that you stop, you rest, you communion with God. 246 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:43.399 You should be doing that throughout the week as well, 247 00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:48.799 but have that specific time to set that apart, to 248 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:51.720 do that and make it important in your life, Lonnie, 249 00:12:51.759 --> 00:12:55.519 that's the key. That is what's most important. Don't get 250 00:12:55.559 --> 00:12:59.559 lost in just the strict tradition of things, because sometimes 251 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:04.679 traditions start becoming idols. People start worshiping those traditions rather 252 00:13:04.799 --> 00:13:08.519 than the word of God. And really it's about you 253 00:13:08.600 --> 00:13:11.360 taking that time. You having the time of rest, you 254 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:15.840 having time with God, and stopping from working. That's the 255 00:13:15.879 --> 00:13:18.480 most important thing. To have that time away from work, 256 00:13:18.519 --> 00:13:25.960 that downtime. Vincent, Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. 257 00:13:27.240 --> 00:13:32.399 Oho, Jesus Hi Hi. My question is in regard to 258 00:13:32.519 --> 00:13:38.679 the whole conference of God. Okay, my banks are Christian pastors, 259 00:13:38.679 --> 00:13:41.080 and so I've been raised with the Christian religion my 260 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:47.120 whole life. I don't necessarily agree with most applications to it. 261 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:50.679 I think a lot of the teaching that you brought 262 00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:54.600 I agree with, but when it comes to the institution 263 00:13:54.759 --> 00:13:57.159 of the church itself, I have a lot of disagreements 264 00:13:57.200 --> 00:13:57.919 with their approach. 265 00:13:58.240 --> 00:13:58.559 Okay. 266 00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:02.799 The question that I have regarding God is if God 267 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:11.039 is you see of love and forgiveness and understanding and compassion. A, 268 00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:16.360 why is that not reflected in the Christian religion? And 269 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:20.440 b why why would there be such things as how 270 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:25.840 or even sins? For that matter? If God was you 271 00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:28.159 know of forgiveness and understanding. 272 00:14:29.080 --> 00:14:32.840 Okay, Well you asked kind of four questions in there, 273 00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:34.639 so let's get to as many of them as we can, 274 00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:37.840 and keep in mind that it's very difficult. As you're 275 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:42.480 a PK and PK's pastors. Kids often have a difficult 276 00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:47.279 time because reconciling between seeing their parents as humans, and 277 00:14:47.320 --> 00:14:50.679 then the words that I have to be taught as well. 278 00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:56.240 If you imagine Vincent, the it's been said by a 279 00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:59.799 chief of police that the judicial system of the United 280 00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:02.799 s States is perfect save for one problem, and that 281 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:04.679 is that it has to be run by human beings. 282 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:07.799 That is exactly the same problem with the church. You're 283 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:12.320 dealing with perfection, but yet those that are preaching or 284 00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:17.360 teaching it are imperfect. However, your concept or your definition 285 00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:21.120 is what's at the root of your concern. It's how 286 00:15:21.159 --> 00:15:23.639 you define these things is what you have a problem with. 287 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:29.159 You have love, forgiveness, Hell, it's the way you define 288 00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:32.360 them that causes the problem, not having them in themselves, 289 00:15:32.799 --> 00:15:38.799 because forgiveness is different than reconciliation, and love isn't just 290 00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:43.000 ignoring the stupid things people do and giving them a hug, 291 00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:45.399 which is what most people think when they think of love. 292 00:15:45.440 --> 00:15:47.799 They go, oh, love is just kind of ignoring all 293 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:51.000 the bad stuff and just being nice to them. That's 294 00:15:51.399 --> 00:15:55.879 not love at all. And so really, your understanding of 295 00:15:55.919 --> 00:16:00.679 those things plays a big part. Hell, for instance, Vincent, 296 00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:05.320 what what kind of music do you hate that you 297 00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:06.320 just can't stand? 298 00:16:06.919 --> 00:16:08.000 I'll the country Western? 299 00:16:08.120 --> 00:16:12.480 Okay, you know, What the funny thing is is that 300 00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:14.759 I asked this question on occasion, and that's one of 301 00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:18.600 the top two. So let's say country western. You don't 302 00:16:18.679 --> 00:16:22.000 like country western, so you don't want to listen to 303 00:16:22.039 --> 00:16:25.360 it for a half hour, do you? You don't want 304 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:26.879 to listen to it for a full day? 305 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:28.159 Do you right? 306 00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:30.240 You wouldn't want to be forced to listen to it 307 00:16:30.279 --> 00:16:33.879 for a year, would you right? Okay, So if I 308 00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:37.559 forced you to listen to country music for an eternity, 309 00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:43.200 that would be hell because you don't want to it. 310 00:16:43.399 --> 00:16:45.559 You don't want it, you want no part of it, 311 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:49.720 and therefore, why would you want to experience it forever? Heaven? 312 00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:54.360 All heaven is and I say all because some people 313 00:16:54.519 --> 00:16:56.879 like to whittle it down as if this is a negative. 314 00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:03.919 All heaven is communion and worship eternally with the Father. 315 00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:08.039 If you don't want to love Him and serve him 316 00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:12.839 for seventy eighty ninety measly years on earth, God will 317 00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:16.440 not force you to do that for eternity. So he 318 00:17:16.519 --> 00:17:22.000 allows you and send you to allows you to make 319 00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:25.079 a choice here on earth to not be with Him 320 00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:29.240 for eternity, and it's called hell to not be with 321 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:36.079 But eternity from God. And the thing that people don't 322 00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:40.240 get wrap their heads around, Vincent, is that you think 323 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:43.359 you don't want God. And this isn't you, particularly the 324 00:17:43.720 --> 00:17:48.160 Greater You think they don't want God. Yet they don't 325 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:50.119 know that God even works in their life even if 326 00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:53.720 they reject Him. On Earth, God is still sustaining this planet. 327 00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:57.480 They so they are getting all the benefits of God 328 00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:00.880 even if they don't know it, or at least part 329 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:04.279 of those benefits, and in hell they won't have any 330 00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:07.920 of them. It's like the petulant child going, you know what, 331 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:09.839 I hate my parents. I just want to move, and 332 00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:13.599 then realizing now they're on the streets, there's no roof 333 00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:15.920 over their head, there's no one guiding them, there's no 334 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:18.160 one giving them love. And now they understand the power 335 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:21.599 of it, but can't go back because the decision is 336 00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:25.519 so respected by God that humans have the ability to 337 00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:28.319 make that decision, that it is a final and eternal 338 00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:31.880 decision at the point of death. So that's what hell 339 00:18:32.119 --> 00:18:38.839 is is somebody truly experiencing for eternity the eternal decision 340 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:41.759 they made. That's it. It's a respect factor. It's not 341 00:18:42.039 --> 00:18:45.960 an unloving or an unjust God. It's a very loving 342 00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:49.759 and very just God who says I respect you, I 343 00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:53.400 love you. Love can only exist by mutual respect. Love 344 00:18:53.440 --> 00:18:56.359 can only exist if I give you a choice not 345 00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:01.960 to love, because forced love is rape. Forcing somebody to 346 00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:05.720 give themselves to you, to physically give themselves to you, 347 00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:09.240 to be a part of your life, to give what 348 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:14.599 you want of a situation is wrong and it's evil, 349 00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:18.640 and God can't and won't do it. He allows humans 350 00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:26.279 to make the conscious, educated choice to reject him for 351 00:19:26.359 --> 00:19:32.799 all of eternity. But it's like rejecting water. When you're 352 00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:35.279 in a desert, you're going to know how much you 353 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:37.400 need water. And all these people that you come across 354 00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:39.960 in life that go, oh, I don't drink water because 355 00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:45.200 I hate the taste, Well, your body needs it. And 356 00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:48.000 it's not till you really understand that you're getting water 357 00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:51.240 in jews, or you're getting water even in SODA's, you're 358 00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:53.559 getting water little bits here and there, that your body 359 00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:56.200 stays hydrated, that you're still getting that water, just like 360 00:19:56.200 --> 00:19:59.559 you're still being sustained even if you're an atheist on Earth. 361 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:01.960 But when you're in Hell, it's like being in the 362 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:07.160 desert without water there you realize the necessity of it 363 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:11.119 in the consequence of that decision in a more real way, 364 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:15.759 and that's not lacking love in any way, shape or form. 365 00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:18.799 Well, Jesus, I don't disagree with you on any point, 366 00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:23.599 especially in terms of understanding that there's no way around 367 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:27.240 God's involvement on this earth and with every sentient being 368 00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:32.759 that inhabits this earth. But with God's design, like you said, 369 00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:36.880 also comes choice. And what I have a hard time 370 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:45.039 understanding is that choice. You know, it's very cut and 371 00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:48.960 dry when it comes to biblical principles. You know, if 372 00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:51.519 you don't follow this, if you don't follow that, you're 373 00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:55.759 going to go to hell. And I don't necessarily agree 374 00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:57.799 with that. I think there are a lot of really 375 00:20:57.839 --> 00:20:59.519 really good people on this earth. 376 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:02.000 Wha wha, wha wha whoa good? What does that mean? 377 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:07.680 By what? By what standard? Is somebody good? By your standard? 378 00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:12.640 How could you even say that somebody is good vincent? 379 00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:13.119 By who? 380 00:21:13.480 --> 00:21:16.559 Is that a cultural statement that the culture says that 381 00:21:16.599 --> 00:21:19.759 they're good or the populace says they're good. 382 00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:27.000 Who This isn't a sociological viewpoint. I think that inherently. 383 00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:31.440 Can be good or by what standard, biblical standard, thou 384 00:21:31.599 --> 00:21:34.640 thou shalt not murder, thou shalt not lie, that shall 385 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:38.640 not commit adultery? By what standard do you say someone's good? 386 00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:46.319 Hmmm, well it couldn't be only biblical, although a lot 387 00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:49.799 of those biblical principles are very sound. You know, of course, 388 00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:52.039 you shouldn't kill people, and you shouldn't. 389 00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:55.799 Do you think society should decide what good, what's good 390 00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:56.400 and what's bad? 391 00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:01.400 Not necessarily, because society is soluble. 392 00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:04.920 Yes, So where do you get the standard of good? 393 00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:06.559 Is that just the things that you like? 394 00:22:08.680 --> 00:22:11.519 No, not necessarily, because it's not even taste. I think 395 00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:12.559 that humans. 396 00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:17.160 Inherently know what's and where does that inherent knowledge come from? 397 00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:22.160 It's okay, so why is it? This is what gets 398 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:26.440 me at Vincent. You will sit there reasonably, and I 399 00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:28.519 love that you're even bringing these things up and that 400 00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:32.319 you're questioning it. That's a good thing. Some churches may 401 00:22:32.359 --> 00:22:34.119