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<v Speaker 1>It's nice side with Dan Ray. I'm WBZ Constance Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, today was a really good day on the stock market,

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<v Speaker 2>as I think all of you know, and there were

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<v Speaker 2>a number of factors that I think caused this stock

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<v Speaker 2>market to have a good day, and one of them

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<v Speaker 2>was the decision last night to at least pause the

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<v Speaker 2>long shoreman strike. The International Long Showman's Association. It's confusing,

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<v Speaker 2>and I've tried to read as much as I could

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<v Speaker 2>about it in advance of tonight's interview. But we have

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<v Speaker 2>with us a labor expert. His name is Vinnie Vernuccio.

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<v Speaker 2>He's the president and co founder of the Institute for

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<v Speaker 2>the American Worker. I'm so glad, Vinnie that there's an

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<v Speaker 2>Institute for the American Worker, because I've done nothing in

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<v Speaker 2>my life except work. How are you.

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<v Speaker 3>Tonight, I'm the same, I'm doing pretty well. Thank you

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<v Speaker 3>for having me on, Dan.

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<v Speaker 2>You're very welcome. So let's talk about this strike. I

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<v Speaker 2>picked up bits and pieces, tried to read as much

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<v Speaker 2>as I could. So we have the East Coast, Gulf

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<v Speaker 2>Coast ISLA, the International Long Showman's Association, and there's a

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<v Speaker 2>West Coast Long Showman's Association. So let's get real basic here.

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<v Speaker 2>Why do we have two long showmen's associations on each coast.

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<v Speaker 2>I would think that the union would be smart to

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<v Speaker 2>have joined together.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean that's one of the problems, and the

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<v Speaker 3>fact that they monopolize the entire coast. Remember, unions are

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<v Speaker 3>given an exemption from anti trust, so they can have

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<v Speaker 3>a monopoly. And that is right. The forty five about

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<v Speaker 3>roughly forty five thousand member Longshoreman Union essentially has a

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<v Speaker 3>monopoly on the entire East Coast. So when they go

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<v Speaker 3>on strike, which they did at the end of September,

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<v Speaker 3>they literally can just shut down anything coming into those parts.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's where you know, there's a lot of paddock

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<v Speaker 3>of what was going to happen. Yeah, we heard rumors

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<v Speaker 3>of the perishable foods were to be taken out, but

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<v Speaker 3>you know it is a real issue.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I heard that people that was run just like

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<v Speaker 2>in the days of COVID, there was a run on

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<v Speaker 2>toilet paper at various supermarkets around the country. And I

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<v Speaker 2>guess ninety of toilet paper in America is produced domestically

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<v Speaker 2>and the other ten percent of produced in Canada. It's

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<v Speaker 2>produced in Canada or Mexico which meant the last thing

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<v Speaker 2>you need to I think, you know, you know, hoard

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<v Speaker 2>is told maybe other things you want to hoard, but

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<v Speaker 2>the long showman would not be involved into other So

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<v Speaker 2>is the group on the West Coast they negotiate a

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<v Speaker 2>separate contract? Is that? Is it the same?

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<v Speaker 3>Did they negotiated a separate contract in the last couple

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<v Speaker 3>of years. It's actually a little bit less than the

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<v Speaker 3>tentative And do you want to stress the term tentative

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<v Speaker 3>deal reached between the ports and the East Coast Longshoreman

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<v Speaker 3>and that deal is set to to expire on January fifteenth. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>so we will see what happens.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, what I'm saying is I don't see this

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<v Speaker 2>strike is over. I think it has been suspended.

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<v Speaker 3>Is suspended is exactly the right is exactly the right word.

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<v Speaker 3>What they've done is they've come to a tentative deal

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<v Speaker 3>on wages. But when the union went out on strike,

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<v Speaker 3>the sports we're offering about fifty percent the union one

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<v Speaker 3>is seventy seven percent increase over the next six years.

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<v Speaker 3>They just compromised and they said that they'll agree to

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<v Speaker 3>sixty two percent wage increase over the next six years.

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<v Speaker 3>Now there's a couple really big sticking points.

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<v Speaker 2>Still.

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<v Speaker 4>One of the.

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<v Speaker 3>Chief ones among them is automation, because the union is

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<v Speaker 3>worried that it'll cost jobs. But once again, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>US ports ranked pretty low compare it to others around

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<v Speaker 3>the country. We're we're pretty bottom of the barrel when

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<v Speaker 3>it comes to efficiency.

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<v Speaker 2>So AI point, Vinny, you said around the country. I

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<v Speaker 2>assume you mean around the world.

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<v Speaker 3>Excuse me, around the world. Excuse me.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So so let me come back. Let's get back

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<v Speaker 2>to the numbers for a second. It's it's in effect

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<v Speaker 2>the same union East Coast, West Coast, but they negotiate

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<v Speaker 2>separate contracts. Is that all right?

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<v Speaker 3>We are just we are just talking about the East

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<v Speaker 3>Coast longshoremen.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, oh no, no, no, I know that. No, no, no,

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<v Speaker 2>I know that. But what I'm saying is, uh this

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<v Speaker 2>for me, whenever I dive into something, I go all fundamental.

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<v Speaker 2>So beer with me. So the people who are in

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<v Speaker 2>the union in the East Coast of the long Showman

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<v Speaker 2>and the long showmen of the West Coast, are they

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<v Speaker 2>in the same union or is it two separate unions

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<v Speaker 2>that represent two separate geographical there's commonality.

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<v Speaker 3>I think what you want to look at is the

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<v Speaker 3>collective bargaining agreement and those are two different collective bargaining agreement.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I get that. I get that. So you have

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<v Speaker 2>East Coast folks have been without us. Their collective bargaining

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<v Speaker 2>agreement is expired, are about to expire. You said, I

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<v Speaker 2>think the West Coast did a deal a couple of

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<v Speaker 2>years ago. Right, that's cross Okay, So what happens is,

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<v Speaker 2>obviously the East Coast wants to get a better deal

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<v Speaker 2>than the West Coast. It's almost like when police and

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<v Speaker 2>firefighters negotiate with the city New York, Chicago of Boston.

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<v Speaker 2>Firefighters get their contract whatever it is, and the police said, well,

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<v Speaker 2>we want to get at least as much as the

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<v Speaker 2>firefighters and maybe more because our guys are out there,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, duck and bullets. And then the firefighters come

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<v Speaker 2>back and say, but yeah, but we're climbing ladders in

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<v Speaker 2>the middle of winter at a fire. So they sort

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<v Speaker 2>of kind of work off each other, which is fine, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>give me an idea. And again you're my expert. So

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<v Speaker 2>if I'm asking you questions to which there are no answers,

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<v Speaker 2>I apologize. I just I'm not I'm trying to understand this.

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<v Speaker 2>What does a long shoreman here in Boston make? Roughly?

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<v Speaker 2>Is it based on seniority or if we're doing the

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<v Speaker 2>same job, I make the same money, do you know?

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<v Speaker 3>So I don't have the exact figures for Boston, but

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<v Speaker 3>I do have some of the figures that the Woman Mission,

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<v Speaker 3>especially you know, a little south in your neighbor. And

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<v Speaker 3>you know I don't want to get into a Red

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<v Speaker 3>Sox Yankees rivalry here.

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, no, no, no, absolutely no, no no. Why

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<v Speaker 2>do you look? The cost of living might be more

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<v Speaker 2>in New York than it is in Boston, which might

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<v Speaker 2>be more than it is somewhere up up the coast

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<v Speaker 2>or down the coast. So give me, give me a

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<v Speaker 2>rough idea about what a long shoreman makes on the

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<v Speaker 2>East Coast. Just give me a rod.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, most are making most are making six figures, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>you see you see more than half, according to this

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<v Speaker 3>Waterfront Commission, made one hundred and fifty thousand or more. Uh,

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<v Speaker 3>you saw about twenty percent making a quarter million or more.

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<v Speaker 3>You see, you know, you know some of them making

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<v Speaker 3>four hundred and fifty thousand and half a million. That

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<v Speaker 3>would be president wow. Yeah, yeah. The well between sorry,

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<v Speaker 3>go ahead.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll get to him in a second. What I'm saying

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<v Speaker 2>is the guys who are men and of the women

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<v Speaker 2>who are making a lot, they're working a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>overtime I assume.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, they're saying they worked about, yeah, one hundred hours

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<v Speaker 3>a week. Now. There's also other provisions in there, such

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<v Speaker 3>as something called container royalties, which you know, there's been

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of documentation that you know, a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>the longshoremen are doing you know, no show or little

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<v Speaker 3>show jobs because of the collective barg agreement. And once again,

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<v Speaker 3>that was a compromise in lieu of you know, having

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<v Speaker 3>a little bit more automation. So those are called container royalties.

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<v Speaker 3>So you know, one hundred hours may not be you know,

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<v Speaker 3>one hundred hours is actually on the job working.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, fair enough. My guest is an expert, uh and

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<v Speaker 2>he's the president basically, he's a labor expert, president and

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<v Speaker 2>co founder of the Institute for the American Worker. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>stunned that the salaries are that high, and I'm stunned

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<v Speaker 2>at the fact that it sounds like the median salary is,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, about one hundred and fifty k. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>that's that's a that's a pretty good job most people would.

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<v Speaker 2>Now if we have a we're going to get into

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<v Speaker 2>the raise that's being contemplated. You mentioned it was like

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<v Speaker 2>sixty two percent or whatever you you're going to If

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<v Speaker 2>you're making one hundred and fifty, that's going to be

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<v Speaker 2>fifteen thousand the first year seventeen thousand, the next year nineteenth.

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<v Speaker 2>You're going to all of a sudden, that's going to

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<v Speaker 2>raise that number. We'll get to all of that. If

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<v Speaker 2>any of you have questions about this this strike, which

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<v Speaker 2>again now is suspended, feel free to join the conversation.

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<v Speaker 2>Six one seven, two five for ten thirty six one

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<v Speaker 2>seven nine ten thirty. As I've often said, there's no

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<v Speaker 2>dumb question. The only dumb questions are the ones that

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<v Speaker 2>you're afraid to ask. It sounds to me like this

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<v Speaker 2>is a very well compensated job. I'm sure that there's

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<v Speaker 2>a history to it. I'm sure that these have been

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<v Speaker 2>a hard won collective bargaining agreements that have been built

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<v Speaker 2>up over time. I do when we get back, I

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<v Speaker 2>want to find out what the head of the union makes,

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<v Speaker 2>because I've seen some pictures an aerial shot of his home.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's out in Los Angeles. It's a pretty nice,

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<v Speaker 2>nice place, at least from the year. We'll talk with

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<v Speaker 2>my guest Vinnie Vernuccio right after the break here on Nightside.

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<v Speaker 1>Now back to Dan Ray Mine from the window World

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<v Speaker 1>night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>My guest is labor expert Vinnie Vernuccio, president and co

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<v Speaker 2>founder of the Institute of the American Worker. Okay, you

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<v Speaker 2>mentioned the president of the long Shoreman's Union, Harold Daggett.

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<v Speaker 2>Is he both coast in West coast?

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<v Speaker 3>He is East coast? Yeah, he is making and I

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<v Speaker 3>know we were talking salary, and you know he lives

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<v Speaker 3>in New Jersey. You know, he does have a nice home.

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<v Speaker 3>He does have a nice boat, and he's clearing between

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<v Speaker 3>the national union and the and a president emeritus status

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<v Speaker 3>of a local union bout nine just under nine hundred

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<v Speaker 3>thousand a year.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I see. His salary is seven twenty eight with

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<v Speaker 2>the Longshoreman's Union and he has a pension of one

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<v Speaker 2>seventy three. He owns a seventy six foot yacht. I

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<v Speaker 2>haven't gotten a yacht yet. I assume Vinnie, you probably

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<v Speaker 2>don't have a seventy six foot yacht.

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<v Speaker 3>I hope I would love a seventy six foot yacht.

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<v Speaker 3>If you can hook me up with, you know, a

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<v Speaker 3>job like that, I'd be very grateful. So I can

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<v Speaker 3>afford a seventy six foot yacht.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, obviously the dudes must be pretty substantial to

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<v Speaker 2>pay this gentleman that amount of money. So any union

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<v Speaker 2>head is looking to get the best deal for the union.

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<v Speaker 2>That's understandable. But let's if you're telling me the average

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<v Speaker 2>long showman on the East Coast and there are forty

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<v Speaker 2>five thousand of them are making a buck and a

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<v Speaker 2>half one hundred and fifty thousand dollars, and that the

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<v Speaker 2>tentative agreement, which may eventually be the final agreement, is

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<v Speaker 2>sixty percent sixty two percent. I think you said over

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<v Speaker 2>six years. Correct me if I'm wrong here. But if

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<v Speaker 2>you're making one fifty and you get a ten percent

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<v Speaker 2>increase in the first year, now you're making what one's

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<v Speaker 2>sixty five? And now if you get.

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<v Speaker 3>Out, if you break it down, yeah, good, go ahead, No, no,

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<v Speaker 3>go ahead, I think I remember if this is all

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<v Speaker 3>about the overtime, but if you break it down hourly,

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<v Speaker 3>it's about thirty nine right now, and then going up

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<v Speaker 3>basically about four dollars an hour for the next six years.

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<v Speaker 3>But you know, with the overtime of one hundred hour weeks,

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<v Speaker 3>that's when those numbers really start to add up.

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<v Speaker 2>Right. But even one of sayings, even for the for

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<v Speaker 2>the average worker, it's going to be a tremendous increase.

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<v Speaker 2>I work in a business here. I don't think we've

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<v Speaker 2>seen a contract like that, at least in my career,

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<v Speaker 2>which goes back a long, long way. What that means,

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<v Speaker 2>obviously is that this is great for the for the

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<v Speaker 2>forty five thousand member Long Showman Union, but it's going

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<v Speaker 2>to certainly add to inflation dramatically because all of these

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<v Speaker 2>businesses are going to pass those cross along. Correct.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean, here's the thing, you know. You know

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<v Speaker 3>we're talking about salaries. You know, if they deserve it,

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<v Speaker 3>they deserve it. A they're working hard, they're working hard.

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<v Speaker 3>The problem is that the law is skewed so that

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<v Speaker 3>you know that that the long Shortman for the East Coast,

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<v Speaker 3>they have monopoly on the entire East Coast. That's granted

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<v Speaker 3>to him by law. There's other things in the law. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>there's other things in the law that you know, do

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<v Speaker 3>provide some safeguards, you know. Unfortunately, the President did not

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<v Speaker 3>exercise his ability and really didn't show his leadership and

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<v Speaker 3>that he frankly didn't believe in the law. This has

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<v Speaker 3>been called the Taft Hartley Act, which would allow the

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<v Speaker 3>president to come in at the starting to drag out

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<v Speaker 3>and say all right, no, you guys got to cool

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<v Speaker 3>off for about eighty days and come back to work

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<v Speaker 3>while we figure this out. You know, Biden said he

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<v Speaker 3>wasn't going to do.

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<v Speaker 2>That, so he didn't impose He didn't impose Taft Haartly,

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<v Speaker 2>but he did get the equivalent of Taft Hartly because

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<v Speaker 2>they are they have suspended the work shoppage or the strike,

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<v Speaker 2>whatever you want to call it, until January fifteenth, So

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<v Speaker 2>Biden would say. President Biden would say, hey, I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>have to invoke Taft Haartly, but I got in effect

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<v Speaker 2>Taft Hartley, right or wrong.

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<v Speaker 3>That's right, and we'll see what happens in January.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, of course. Yeah. Well, the way I look at

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<v Speaker 2>it is that this would have annored to the detriment

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<v Speaker 2>of the incumbent White House because if all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 2>by mid October, now things on store shelves were disappearing

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<v Speaker 2>not because of hoarding, but because they were not being resupplied.

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<v Speaker 2>Prices would would have gone up. So is there a

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<v Speaker 2>political decision involved in this by any party? And I

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<v Speaker 2>assumed that the White House probably job owned this a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit by saying they would not invoke TAFT Hartly,

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<v Speaker 2>I assumed that put pressure on the owners of the

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<v Speaker 2>companies to come to a deal or at least a tenant.

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<v Speaker 2>How do I read that wrong?

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<v Speaker 3>No, you're reading it right. And it wasn't just putting uh,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, pressure by not invoking TAFT. Partly, they were

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<v Speaker 3>definitely putting pressure on the owners to raise those wages.

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<v Speaker 3>And we'll see what happen. Especially, I mean, the real

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<v Speaker 3>forty issue here is the automation, which has not been

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<v Speaker 3>resolved yet. That's another reason why you excuse my misspeak

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<v Speaker 3>before that the US ports are lagging behind much of

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<v Speaker 3>the rest of the world, and that's in very large

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<v Speaker 3>part due to these collective bargaining bits. I mean, one

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<v Speaker 3>of the main impetuses behind the strike was, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>the the gates and I'm not talking about you know,

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<v Speaker 3>some shipping term or crate or anything o. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>literally gate opening, automation, pressing a button to open a

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<v Speaker 3>gate as opposed to doing that manually. So that's one

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<v Speaker 3>of the main things that the logshart men are are

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<v Speaker 3>flighting against it. They're using examples such as well, look

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<v Speaker 3>at easy paths and the total operators that are put

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<v Speaker 3>out of work. I mean, I don't know, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, driving up there. I know easy pass at

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<v Speaker 3>least for me, has you know, helped a lot. It

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<v Speaker 3>helps reduce congestion, it helps reduce pollution, and I say

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<v Speaker 3>it's a good thing. And frankly, it's created job, especially

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<v Speaker 3>the administrative jobs, get people out of non climate controlled

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<v Speaker 3>toll booths. But unfortunately they.

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<v Speaker 2>Let me jump in on this, and I happen to

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<v Speaker 2>agree with you totally. I'm not a huge fan of automation.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm one of those guys who in the when I

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<v Speaker 2>go to the grocery store, I make it very clear

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want to go through the self checkout line

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<v Speaker 2>because I want to save the jobs of the people

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<v Speaker 2>who are working the cash registers. Now you may say

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<v Speaker 2>that I'm kind of old fashioned, but those folks are making,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, fifteen bucks an hour, and they're gonna if

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<v Speaker 2>everybody had plus. When I do the self checkout. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't get a break in the price. I'm sitting there

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<v Speaker 2>and if I make a mistake that you know, it's

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<v Speaker 2>like I'm doing the job of a cashier. And it's

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<v Speaker 2>like if I go buy a Christmas tree and buy

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<v Speaker 2>a tall Christmas tree, I don't want to have to

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<v Speaker 2>carry the Christmas tree to my car. You know, I

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<v Speaker 2>would assume that part of the serve. You know what

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<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to say. I mean, you know, if I

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<v Speaker 2>buy a washing machine at home depot or a refrigerator,

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<v Speaker 2>I do someone don't want someone to give me a

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<v Speaker 2>dolly and say, well, here's your refrigerator, take it out

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<v Speaker 2>of the car. I mean, you know, if you get

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<v Speaker 2>my drift. But if you're saying that we got to

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<v Speaker 2>keep a guy on for one hundred thousand dollars, who

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<v Speaker 2>every time a truck comes up, he pushes a button

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<v Speaker 2>as opposed to automating it. Look, everybody knows you're going

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<v Speaker 2>to a parking garage these days. You if you have

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<v Speaker 2>a garage passion, you tap the screen and the gate

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<v Speaker 2>opens up. That's the way it works. There's no not

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<v Speaker 2>someone there. It can be frustrating for people if you're

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<v Speaker 2>at a garage that one of the machines malfunctions on

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<v Speaker 2>and nobody can back up, and you're trying to get

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<v Speaker 2>home at ten o'clock after a player or show. But

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<v Speaker 2>what is your sense will happen on January fifteenth? Do

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<v Speaker 2>you think that an enough blood has been shed here

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<v Speaker 2>and enough words have been spoken that they will come

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<v Speaker 2>to an agreement, or do you think we might be

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<v Speaker 2>right back on January fifteenth where we were yesterday on

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<v Speaker 2>August third, on October third?

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I hope they have an agreement. I hope

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<v Speaker 3>that it happens well before January fifteenth, that we're not

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<v Speaker 3>coming down to the wire here that we don't see

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<v Speaker 3>the strike, we don't see empty shelves. And remember, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>especially now with the hurricane, and you had Senator Tim

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<v Speaker 3>Scott saying, you guys can't go on strike, but they

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<v Speaker 3>did anyway because of the relief. Thankfully that's suspended. But

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<v Speaker 3>as far as January fifteenth, you know, I hope it

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't happen. I don't know if the election in November

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<v Speaker 3>is going to affect that one way or the other,

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<v Speaker 3>but you know, the hope is that they do come

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<v Speaker 3>to an agreement, they come into an agreement that helps

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<v Speaker 3>the long shoreman but also allows for port efficiency and

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<v Speaker 3>you know, we can you know, make sure that you

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<v Speaker 3>know this type of monopoly that is given to long

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<v Speaker 3>shoreman doesn't cripple the economy like it has the ability

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<v Speaker 3>to do.

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<v Speaker 2>Right now, Last question, and we got to go to

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<v Speaker 2>a newscast and we'll take some phone calls on the

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<v Speaker 2>other side. Last question, you talked about how there's more

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<v Speaker 2>automation imports. I assume you mentioned in Europe and other

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<v Speaker 2>parts of the world. What other than let's say some

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<v Speaker 2>guy sitting there pressing a button so the gate opens.

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<v Speaker 2>He's in a guardhouse, hopefully nice and warm with some

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<v Speaker 2>you know, work a time with footwarmers or something like that.

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<v Speaker 2>What sort of automation are they fighting against. I assume

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<v Speaker 2>that when these huge vehicles come off, they're not being

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<v Speaker 2>lifted up by the long shoreman that's coming off. With

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<v Speaker 2>the cranes. I assume there's somebody who's operating a crane.

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<v Speaker 2>They would eliminate those crane operators and have that done robotically.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that what they're talking about?

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I'm not an expert in exactly how the

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<v Speaker 3>ports operate, but I will tell you that there has

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<v Speaker 3>been studies like RODERDAE, for instance, is one of the

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<v Speaker 3>most automated forms in the country, and you know, there's

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<v Speaker 3>been studies showing that that actually did not significantly affect

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<v Speaker 3>increased job losses. There was a study out of California,

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<v Speaker 3>Berkeley specifically, that showed that when Los Angeles adopted some automation,

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<v Speaker 3>paid hours for the union members actually grew by over

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<v Speaker 3>eleven percent. And I mean you can even look to

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<v Speaker 3>other industries Kaiser Permanente, when they switched from paper to

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<v Speaker 3>digital medical records, they retrained the staff, the people that

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<v Speaker 3>were the truckers that were carrying those records, the librarians,

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<v Speaker 3>and you really did not see many job losses because

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<v Speaker 3>of the retrading and reassign it. So when you're talking

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<v Speaker 3>about automation, yeah, it could be scary. It's changed. Change

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<v Speaker 3>is scary, but it's not like a lot of people

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<v Speaker 3>are going out on the street because of it. It's

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<v Speaker 3>changing roles and increasing efficiency.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, My guest is Vinny Vernuccio, president and co

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<v Speaker 2>founder of the Institute for the American Worker. We'll get

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<v Speaker 2>some phone calls. Feel free to join the conversation if

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<v Speaker 2>you have a strong thought on this. Either way, you're welcome.

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<v Speaker 2>If you want to ask a question, you're welcome. It's

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<v Speaker 2>one of the It is a huge issue, in my opinion,

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<v Speaker 2>a huge issue because I like a lot of strikes.

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<v Speaker 2>If there's a teacher's union strike in a city, if

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<v Speaker 2>you don't live in that city, it's probably not going

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<v Speaker 2>to affect you a whole lot. It's going to have

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<v Speaker 2>a tremendous impact on the people who live in that

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<v Speaker 2>city and who have children in the school system. But

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<v Speaker 2>a strike by longshoreman would affect each and every one

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<v Speaker 2>of us. A prolonged strike by long shoreman would really

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<v Speaker 2>impact a lot of us, virtually everybody in some form

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<v Speaker 2>of fashion. That's why this issue is so important. If

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<v Speaker 2>you'd like to join the conversation and ask my guest

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<v Speaker 2>a question or or pose an argument, we can do

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<v Speaker 2>it politely, as we always do. One night Side six

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<v Speaker 2>one seven, two, five, four ten thirty six seven, one,

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<v Speaker 2>ten thirty will get you on and we'll take a

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<v Speaker 2>quick break for the news and be back right after this.

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<v Speaker 2>My name is Dan Ray.

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<v Speaker 1>You're on n Side with Dan Ray on w BZ,

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<v Speaker 1>Boston's news radio.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you, Nicole, And that's an interesting side story here.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to ask Vernuccio about the Boston hotel strike,

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<v Speaker 2>but that would have quite an impact here in Boston, Vinnie.

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<v Speaker 2>I was just reading today that Harold Daggett, who's the

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<v Speaker 2>head of the union, that has been head of the union,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess for quite a while, has always had good

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<v Speaker 2>relations with Joe Biden, President Biden, and as a matter

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<v Speaker 2>of fact, endorsed Biden in twenty twenty uh and said some,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, fairly tough things about Donald Trump. He he

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<v Speaker 2>said positive things about Joe Biden, but then he he's

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<v Speaker 2>a parent on he met with Trump, and he has

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<v Speaker 2>he has he's he kind of plays both both sides

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<v Speaker 2>of the political aisle here, so he's he sounds like

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<v Speaker 2>he's functioning in the best interests of his membership. That's

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<v Speaker 2>very that's very very for certain, very effective union leader,

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<v Speaker 2>if I might, if I if I read this correctly.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, it sounds like you know, Sean O'Brien with the

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<v Speaker 3>Teamsters that you know obviously met what trum spoke at

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<v Speaker 3>the Republican National Convention. You know, the only problem there,

418
00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:28.440
<v Speaker 3>and you know, I guess, well, you know, back away

419
00:23:28.440 --> 00:23:30.440
<v Speaker 3>from the long strum and talk about, you know, unions

420
00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:34.319
<v Speaker 3>and union leadership in general, is that you know, despite

421
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:37.319
<v Speaker 3>some lip service and you know, to their credit actually

422
00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:41.359
<v Speaker 3>reaching out, uh, you know, they do have views that

423
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:43.319
<v Speaker 3>are opposite to a lot of their members. And you know,

424
00:23:43.359 --> 00:23:47.680
<v Speaker 3>looking specifically at the Teamsters, you see that almost sixty

425
00:23:47.720 --> 00:23:53.400
<v Speaker 3>percent of surveyed Teamster members support the pre support President Trump.

426
00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:58.920
<v Speaker 3>And you know, you see the former president over overpolling

427
00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:02.079
<v Speaker 3>and doing much better than typical Republicans with union members

428
00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:06.519
<v Speaker 3>across the country, except that the union leadership still doubles

429
00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:10.359
<v Speaker 3>down and they usually go for Democrats. And you saw

430
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:13.200
<v Speaker 3>that with a non endorsement with the Teamsters, where they

431
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:16.839
<v Speaker 3>had this you know, crazy double standard where it was, well,

432
00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:20.480
<v Speaker 3>you know Vice President Harris did not get a majority

433
00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:23.720
<v Speaker 3>of the votes, so we can endorse her, but President,

434
00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:26.680
<v Speaker 3>former President Trump did not get universal support, so we

435
00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:28.039
<v Speaker 3>can't endorse him.

436
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:32.839
<v Speaker 2>No, I get that. And also today the International Association

437
00:24:32.920 --> 00:24:36.480
<v Speaker 2>of Firefighters, which has always been a go to union

438
00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:40.640
<v Speaker 2>for the Democratic presidential nominee, they took the same position

439
00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:43.839
<v Speaker 2>as the Teamsters and that they would not issue an endorsement. Now,

440
00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:49.759
<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty, the Long Showman and specifically the head

441
00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:54.519
<v Speaker 2>of the union. This fellow named Daggett endorsed President Biden.

442
00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:58.359
<v Speaker 2>They have a long standing I guess friendship and relationship,

443
00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:06.880
<v Speaker 2>but now he's apparently well. For example, the ISLA endorsed,

444
00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:10.160
<v Speaker 2>according to This Week magazine, Biden's campaign for the White House.

445
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:14.359
<v Speaker 2>This is in twenty twenty, and the quote said Daggett said,

446
00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:17.079
<v Speaker 2>Joe Biden's friendship and support of the ISLEA goes back

447
00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:20.319
<v Speaker 2>decades from his time as a US Senator from Delaware.

448
00:25:21.079 --> 00:25:24.319
<v Speaker 2>Daggett added that the Democrat was quote the best candidate

449
00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:27.039
<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty to defeat Donald Trump in return honored

450
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:30.680
<v Speaker 2>dignity and prosperity to the United States of America. Subsequently

451
00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:34.000
<v Speaker 2>that he's met with Trump and apparently they have an

452
00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:37.119
<v Speaker 2>interesting relationship. Let's grab a phone call here, see we

453
00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:38.759
<v Speaker 2>get the phone line started a little bit. Let me

454
00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:41.799
<v Speaker 2>go to Jim in New York. H Jim, welcome your

455
00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:44.480
<v Speaker 2>first this hour with Vinnie Ernuccio, a labor expert co

456
00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:46.720
<v Speaker 2>founder of the Institute for the American Worker.

457
00:25:46.759 --> 00:25:50.440
<v Speaker 4>Go right ahead, Jim, Hey guys, thanks, Yeah. I just

458
00:25:50.480 --> 00:25:52.880
<v Speaker 4>had a couple of comments. Number one, I mean I

459
00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:55.279
<v Speaker 4>used to be a union member down in New York City.

460
00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:57.200
<v Speaker 4>I live in upstate New York for like the last

461
00:25:57.240 --> 00:26:01.359
<v Speaker 4>thirty seven years, and we had a thing in the

462
00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:06.200
<v Speaker 4>Operating Engineers Construction Union Local I was in that regarded

463
00:26:06.279 --> 00:26:11.240
<v Speaker 4>reducing force. I do HVAC, and automation was already a

464
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:13.680
<v Speaker 4>big thing then and I still do it, and it's

465
00:26:13.799 --> 00:26:17.680
<v Speaker 4>just gone on steroids on that now where the union

466
00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:21.680
<v Speaker 4>had to acknowledge that, you know, you're not going to

467
00:26:21.799 --> 00:26:26.680
<v Speaker 4>have like the nineteen forties stuff where guys had to

468
00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:31.240
<v Speaker 4>make adjustments manually in real time due to shifting loads.

469
00:26:31.240 --> 00:26:34.880
<v Speaker 4>This could all be all automated, and it was. And

470
00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:37.559
<v Speaker 4>you know, you can run a build a high rise

471
00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:42.559
<v Speaker 4>building in Manhattan now on half the crew. Like when

472
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:44.279
<v Speaker 4>I was down there, you'd have an eight man crew

473
00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:46.720
<v Speaker 4>and say a forty five story building. That building can

474
00:26:46.759 --> 00:26:49.640
<v Speaker 4>be run on five or four guys now. So I

475
00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:55.079
<v Speaker 4>don't see how this union can resist that juggernaut, you know,

476
00:26:55.839 --> 00:26:58.519
<v Speaker 4>I mean, you're almost like a Luddite, like, you know,

477
00:26:59.240 --> 00:27:02.000
<v Speaker 4>you're not going to like understand that, you know. I

478
00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:04.440
<v Speaker 4>mean it's almost like you know, when the automobile supplic

479
00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:08.680
<v Speaker 4>you know, surpassed or supplanted the horse, you know, I

480
00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:11.000
<v Speaker 4>mean if it's all over the world, which is what

481
00:27:11.079 --> 00:27:15.079
<v Speaker 4>I'm hearing from you guys, and I've read it elsewhere Europe,

482
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:20.920
<v Speaker 4>you know, all over Asia, the West coast of North America.

483
00:27:21.039 --> 00:27:23.400
<v Speaker 4>I just think it's a matter of time before they

484
00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:26.720
<v Speaker 4>have to accede and say, hey, you know, we gotta

485
00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:29.200
<v Speaker 4>step in line with that. What do you think.

486
00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:31.920
<v Speaker 2>Let's let me get Vinnie's reaction, and then I have

487
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:36.200
<v Speaker 2>a comment that I want to make. Go ahead, Vinnie. Sure.

488
00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:38.599
<v Speaker 3>I mean, you know, you see the rest of the

489
00:27:38.599 --> 00:27:41.920
<v Speaker 3>world automating. You see the efficiencies, but you also see that,

490
00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:45.000
<v Speaker 3>you know, there's a lot of people being retrained, so

491
00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:47.160
<v Speaker 3>you know it may not be as stark as far

492
00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:49.839
<v Speaker 3>as the job losses go. And I you know, talked

493
00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:52.680
<v Speaker 3>about a couple of those studies that you know came

494
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:55.200
<v Speaker 3>out of I read those. You know, the AP just

495
00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:58.559
<v Speaker 3>sided those and you know between the University of California

496
00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:00.759
<v Speaker 3>and then some of the other or was the Kaiser

497
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:05.279
<v Speaker 3>Permanente example. But yeah, I mean, you know, you're going

498
00:28:05.319 --> 00:28:07.240
<v Speaker 3>to get to the point where you can't have people

499
00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:11.960
<v Speaker 3>with clipboards, you know, checking off containers. Things are going

500
00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:14.319
<v Speaker 3>to modernize, and you know.

501
00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:19.039
<v Speaker 4>That easy pass and I mean, you know the mass Pike.

502
00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:21.599
<v Speaker 4>I mean, I go over to Eastern mass in New

503
00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:26.200
<v Speaker 4>Hampshire main every year, and we were annoyed over here,

504
00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:28.480
<v Speaker 4>like when's the New York State Thruway going to get

505
00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:30.920
<v Speaker 4>in line with the Mass Pike because you guys had

506
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:34.359
<v Speaker 4>easy pass ahead of us. And then finally they did,

507
00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:39.039
<v Speaker 4>but it was fought because you know, look, I'm not like,

508
00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:42.839
<v Speaker 4>you know, downgrading people, but I mean, you know, we

509
00:28:42.920 --> 00:28:46.559
<v Speaker 4>can't be collecting nickels and quarters at toll boots anymore.

510
00:28:46.599 --> 00:28:50.720
<v Speaker 4>It makes no sense. And they finally did automate the

511
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:56.039
<v Speaker 4>entire New York State Thruway, so, you know, several years

512
00:28:56.039 --> 00:28:58.359
<v Speaker 4>after the mass Pike. So I see that coming. You know,

513
00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:00.960
<v Speaker 4>with this, you know, it's like West host East Coast.

514
00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:04.240
<v Speaker 4>You guys are gonna maybe you'll get the contract you

515
00:29:04.279 --> 00:29:06.720
<v Speaker 4>want and maybe you'll delay it. But I don't see

516
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:11.839
<v Speaker 4>it as inevitable, or I see it as inevitable that's

517
00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:13.680
<v Speaker 4>gonna happen at some point in the future.

518
00:29:13.720 --> 00:29:16.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay, here's my question. Let me jump in here, and again,

519
00:29:16.079 --> 00:29:18.160
<v Speaker 2>Vinnie knows more about this than I do, and you

520
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:20.480
<v Speaker 2>very well may know more about this than I do,

521
00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:26.480
<v Speaker 2>but I believe and I've just learned this from conversations

522
00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:30.039
<v Speaker 2>with friends of mine, that it's a lot easier to

523
00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:33.559
<v Speaker 2>become a long shoreman to get into the union. If

524
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:35.400
<v Speaker 2>your daddy or uncle was a long shoreman.

525
00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:39.319
<v Speaker 4>Well, that's how I got into the operating engineers or

526
00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:41.160
<v Speaker 4>in the early eighties because of my post.

527
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:45.759
<v Speaker 2>So no, no, no. So the point that I'm trying

528
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:49.920
<v Speaker 2>to make is that unlike let us say, the teachers' unions,

529
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:54.559
<v Speaker 2>which are very strong in Massachusetts, and the teachers' unions

530
00:29:54.599 --> 00:29:58.079
<v Speaker 2>are sort of fighting for themselves, we have the school

531
00:29:58.119 --> 00:30:01.759
<v Speaker 2>population is decreasing just because the birth rate is decreasing.

532
00:30:01.880 --> 00:30:05.200
<v Speaker 2>Its decreasing, but they want to maintain the jobs. The

533
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:09.160
<v Speaker 2>long shoremen probably are interested in maintaining the jobs so

534
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:13.720
<v Speaker 2>that their progeny can come on and clear.

535
00:30:13.559 --> 00:30:15.279
<v Speaker 4>It these jobs.

536
00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:17.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So my point is does that make it? Does

537
00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:21.359
<v Speaker 2>that make it? Here's my question. Agreeing to the to

538
00:30:21.400 --> 00:30:27.160
<v Speaker 2>the premise, does that make it more difficult for the

539
00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:29.880
<v Speaker 2>the owners, the operators, whatever you want to call them,

540
00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:33.720
<v Speaker 2>to convince this union to do something that is inevitable,

541
00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:38.880
<v Speaker 2>maybe because it affects not just them in the short term,

542
00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:42.079
<v Speaker 2>but it affects their kids and their grand their grandsons

543
00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:46.039
<v Speaker 2>or granddaughters now as well maybe and their grandchildren going forward.

544
00:30:46.160 --> 00:30:50.079
<v Speaker 2>They look at this long shoreman's position in some cases

545
00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:51.880
<v Speaker 2>as a family business.

546
00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:55.240
<v Speaker 4>Well that's true. I mean, or is Anny gonna jump in?

547
00:30:55.319 --> 00:30:58.680
<v Speaker 2>But why don't you answer first and then we'll get

548
00:30:58.720 --> 00:30:59.559
<v Speaker 2>Vinnie go ahead?

549
00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:03.119
<v Speaker 4>Okay. I remember it was very nepotistic forty five years

550
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:06.079
<v Speaker 4>ago when I got in like they you know, some

551
00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:08.680
<v Speaker 4>of these unions, and they were mobbed up then. I

552
00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:11.480
<v Speaker 4>don't know that the long shoremen and are now, but

553
00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:13.279
<v Speaker 4>I you know, I'm thinking back on the water.

554
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:15.799
<v Speaker 2>If it was a period. There was a period. As

555
00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:17.400
<v Speaker 2>a matter of fact, Yes, yes.

556
00:31:17.240 --> 00:31:20.119
<v Speaker 4>Yes, yes, we were mobbed up and it was like,

557
00:31:20.200 --> 00:31:22.200
<v Speaker 4>you know, I remember one guy wanted to get into

558
00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:24.279
<v Speaker 4>another union. They said you got to have three dead

559
00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:27.400
<v Speaker 4>relatives to get in here. You know, it's just like ridiculous.

560
00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:32.240
<v Speaker 4>And I think that's faded away, but I but back then, yes,

561
00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:35.599
<v Speaker 4>you know, you used to have to have a hook.

562
00:31:35.839 --> 00:31:36.759
<v Speaker 4>They called it a hook.

563
00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:40.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so let me get let me get Vinnie in here. Vinnie.

564
00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:45.119
<v Speaker 2>I'm just raising this issue because there's more at stake

565
00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:49.079
<v Speaker 2>for these current the current union members. They're not only

566
00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:51.960
<v Speaker 2>about thinking about their salary this year, their salary next year,

567
00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:54.200
<v Speaker 2>the salary five or ten years from now, but they're

568
00:31:54.200 --> 00:31:57.519
<v Speaker 2>thinking about their kids' salaries. Yeah, thirty five, forty years

569
00:31:57.559 --> 00:31:57.920
<v Speaker 2>from now.

570
00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:01.839
<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean the main issue here is that there's

571
00:32:02.200 --> 00:32:04.839
<v Speaker 3>zero competition because, like you said, you know, you've got

572
00:32:05.160 --> 00:32:07.680
<v Speaker 3>the West Coast longshoreman, you've got the East Coast long showmen.

573
00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:10.000
<v Speaker 3>They've got the monopoly. So really, if you want to

574
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:12.079
<v Speaker 3>get into this country, I mean, the less we're going

575
00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:15.000
<v Speaker 3>to start shipping everything to Mexico and then driving it

576
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:18.240
<v Speaker 3>up there or taking a rail up there. There really

577
00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:22.039
<v Speaker 3>is no other choice. So, you know, aside from the

578
00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:24.240
<v Speaker 3>family ties or the nepotism or the things that we're

579
00:32:24.279 --> 00:32:26.799
<v Speaker 3>talking about, you know, when you look at the way

580
00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:31.279
<v Speaker 3>it's structured and the problems that the law allows it

581
00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:34.480
<v Speaker 3>to have, and the fact that they're under this specific

582
00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:37.599
<v Speaker 3>law versus let's say, a law that applies to the

583
00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:39.839
<v Speaker 3>railroads and airlines, which you know we could talk about

584
00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:43.039
<v Speaker 3>that have different provisions to prevent these type of strikes.

585
00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:46.480
<v Speaker 3>You know, that really is the problem. So you know, yes,

586
00:32:46.599 --> 00:32:49.119
<v Speaker 3>you could look, you know, is there family relationships, are

587
00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:52.200
<v Speaker 3>they're looking to hand down the jobs to you know,

588
00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:55.559
<v Speaker 3>the next generation things like that, but you know, stepping

589
00:32:55.599 --> 00:32:58.400
<v Speaker 3>back and what can actually be done. That's when you

590
00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:01.200
<v Speaker 3>look at all, Right, well, maybe we should reassess this monopoly,

591
00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:04.359
<v Speaker 3>or maybe we should reassess well, the longshoreman h you know,

592
00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:08.240
<v Speaker 3>should be considered the same as let's say those hotel workers,

593
00:33:08.359 --> 00:33:10.759
<v Speaker 3>or because of the stranglehold that they can put on

594
00:33:10.839 --> 00:33:13.880
<v Speaker 3>the economy, they should be considered like the railroad or

595
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:17.119
<v Speaker 3>the airlines, which are in a special law called the

596
00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:21.359
<v Speaker 3>Railway Act specifically, so they can't put a chokehold on

597
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:22.160
<v Speaker 3>the economy.

598
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:24.720
<v Speaker 2>Right, you have to you have to find the will

599
00:33:24.759 --> 00:33:26.799
<v Speaker 2>in Congress to change the law. And I don't think

600
00:33:26.839 --> 00:33:29.119
<v Speaker 2>you're going to find that will in Congress at this

601
00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:34.480
<v Speaker 2>point anyway. Gentlemen, heyk King with us here, Vinnie Bernuccio,

602
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:36.759
<v Speaker 2>and I want to thank Jim in New York. Jim,

603
00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:38.559
<v Speaker 2>have you called me for Is this your first time calling?

604
00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:41.480
<v Speaker 4>The last time I talked was three years ago, But

605
00:33:41.559 --> 00:33:43.160
<v Speaker 4>I should call more frequently.

606
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:46.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'd appreciate it because you're a great caller.

607
00:33:46.119 --> 00:33:48.079
<v Speaker 4>Thank you so much, Thank you, Dan, thank you Vinny.

608
00:33:48.200 --> 00:33:50.839
<v Speaker 2>Okay, welcome, thanks for listening to us up in New York.

609
00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:56.880
<v Speaker 2>Over in New York, six four thirty, six thirty. I

610
00:33:56.920 --> 00:33:59.640
<v Speaker 2>got wide open lines here. I think it's a fascinating topic.

611
00:34:00.319 --> 00:34:04.480
<v Speaker 2>Is a labor expert, co founder of the Institute for

612
00:34:04.519 --> 00:34:08.960
<v Speaker 2>the American Worker, Vinnie Ernuccio. Let's keep at it. If

613
00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:10.519
<v Speaker 2>you've got a question, you want to make a comment.

614
00:34:10.599 --> 00:34:13.519
<v Speaker 2>I was hoping here from some long shoremen during this

615
00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:16.000
<v Speaker 2>segment tonight. You're more than welcome to call. We're going

616
00:34:16.039 --> 00:34:18.400
<v Speaker 2>to wrap it at ten o'clock. We got about ten

617
00:34:18.440 --> 00:34:20.440
<v Speaker 2>more minutes left. Feel free to take advantage of it.

618
00:34:20.440 --> 00:34:24.960
<v Speaker 2>We are going to talk about the impact of Hurricane Helene.

619
00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:29.920
<v Speaker 2>We have Massachusetts what's called the Massachusetts Task Force one,

620
00:34:30.119 --> 00:34:33.519
<v Speaker 2>an urban search and rescue team in North Carolina tonight,

621
00:34:33.599 --> 00:34:35.559
<v Speaker 2>and we're going to talk to a member of that

622
00:34:35.880 --> 00:34:39.119
<v Speaker 2>group during next hour. And I'm also going to raise

623
00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:43.440
<v Speaker 2>some questions about does this give you some pause to

624
00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:45.519
<v Speaker 2>decide whether or not you might move to that part

625
00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:46.960
<v Speaker 2>of the country. We get to all of that, but

626
00:34:47.079 --> 00:34:49.239
<v Speaker 2>let's continue to talk about the long Showman's Union. Now.

627
00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:51.519
<v Speaker 2>I know if they had gone on strike and people

628
00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:54.719
<v Speaker 2>had found that they couldn't get something at the stores

629
00:34:54.760 --> 00:34:56.639
<v Speaker 2>that they want, the phone lines would be lit up.

630
00:34:57.039 --> 00:34:59.840
<v Speaker 2>Feel free. You got the numbers coming back on Nightside.

631
00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:03.360
<v Speaker 1>Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World

632
00:35:03.480 --> 00:35:06.559
<v Speaker 1>night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.

633
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:10.880
<v Speaker 2>My guess is Vinnie Bernuccio. He's the president of the

634
00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:14.000
<v Speaker 2>Institute for the American Worker. Vinnie just getting away from

635
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:17.760
<v Speaker 2>the longshoreman impass for the moment. Just a quick question,

636
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:22.000
<v Speaker 2>why is it do you think that unions seem to

637
00:35:22.039 --> 00:35:26.039
<v Speaker 2>be losing, if not control over their membership, at least

638
00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:29.679
<v Speaker 2>losing the direction of their membership. I mean, there was

639
00:35:29.719 --> 00:35:33.800
<v Speaker 2>a time when I was your age, and I'm a

640
00:35:33.800 --> 00:35:36.079
<v Speaker 2>lot older than you are, when you could count that

641
00:35:36.199 --> 00:35:40.000
<v Speaker 2>a union endorsement really had an impact and you knew

642
00:35:40.039 --> 00:35:43.880
<v Speaker 2>that the union leadership was speaking in concert with the

643
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:47.079
<v Speaker 2>union membership. That seems to me to be less so.

644
00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:51.280
<v Speaker 2>And certainly Donald Trump has made some inroads into the

645
00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:56.280
<v Speaker 2>union base. Witnessed the non endorsements from the IAAF, the

646
00:35:56.320 --> 00:35:59.519
<v Speaker 2>International Association of Firefighters as well as the Teamsters Union

647
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:04.800
<v Speaker 2>that some other Republicans like Ronny McCain George Bush weren't

648
00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:06.840
<v Speaker 2>able to make. What's going on?

649
00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:10.840
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I mean, I do think that the union leadership

650
00:36:11.039 --> 00:36:13.159
<v Speaker 3>is out of touch with their membership, and you know,

651
00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:16.679
<v Speaker 3>nothing says that more than you know, the recent Teamsters

652
00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:20.039
<v Speaker 3>example of the non endorsement, yet the you know, almost

653
00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:24.760
<v Speaker 3>sixty percent of the membership that supported Donald Trump. You know,

654
00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:27.440
<v Speaker 3>you're also seeing it just when it comes to politics.

655
00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:30.480
<v Speaker 3>You know, typically a third to forty percent of union

656
00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:34.079
<v Speaker 3>households typically vote Republican. Yet the vast majority you know,

657
00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:37.920
<v Speaker 3>eighty ninety plus percent of union endorsements and union political

658
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:41.960
<v Speaker 3>money usually goes to Democrats. So there's a political problem there.

659
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:44.239
<v Speaker 3>But you know, as far as unions in general, even

660
00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:48.239
<v Speaker 3>getting away from politics, and I do think the longshoremen

661
00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:52.800
<v Speaker 3>with their push against automation kind of encapsulates this, is

662
00:36:52.840 --> 00:36:56.840
<v Speaker 3>that unions really are in this industrial revolution one size

663
00:36:56.840 --> 00:37:02.880
<v Speaker 3>fits all adversarial mentality, and the collective bargting business model

664
00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:06.280
<v Speaker 3>is based in the you know, essentially the nineteen thirties

665
00:37:06.280 --> 00:37:10.599
<v Speaker 3>with unskilled workers working in factories. That doesn't translate into

666
00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:13.360
<v Speaker 3>today's modern workforce. You know. In fact, they wrote a

667
00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:17.000
<v Speaker 3>study for the Backetaw Center about how unions can improve

668
00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:21.239
<v Speaker 3>and become like professional service organizations, being unions for the

669
00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:26.760
<v Speaker 3>twenty first century, embracing voluntary unionism, embracing things like merit pay.

670
00:37:26.840 --> 00:37:28.519
<v Speaker 3>So not the only way to get ahead is by

671
00:37:28.519 --> 00:37:33.480
<v Speaker 3>logging another year on the job and embracing flexibility. Unfortunately,

672
00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:37.519
<v Speaker 3>that just hasn't happened. I think that's another reason why

673
00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:41.119
<v Speaker 3>unions just simply aren't. Their membership is not keeping up

674
00:37:41.360 --> 00:37:43.559
<v Speaker 3>with the rest of the economy because they're selling a

675
00:37:43.599 --> 00:37:47.199
<v Speaker 3>product that is outdated and that most modern workers don't want.

676
00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:50.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, the only point I will make here is that

677
00:37:50.360 --> 00:37:55.119
<v Speaker 2>if the International Longshoreman's Association does get this contract sixty

678
00:37:55.159 --> 00:37:58.360
<v Speaker 2>two percent of whatever it is over six years, they're

679
00:37:58.360 --> 00:38:01.400
<v Speaker 2>going to be way ahead of the rest of the

680
00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:05.159
<v Speaker 2>other than maybe NFL and NBA players. They're going to

681
00:38:05.199 --> 00:38:10.559
<v Speaker 2>be on a percentage basis highly compensated. So this union,

682
00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:15.800
<v Speaker 2>and it obviously has some carveouts for it and some exemptions,

683
00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:20.880
<v Speaker 2>some anti trust exemptions, which is very favorable to the union.

684
00:38:21.320 --> 00:38:25.719
<v Speaker 2>Anti trust exemptions in sports back in the nineteen forties

685
00:38:25.719 --> 00:38:29.960
<v Speaker 2>and fifties was favorable to the owners, not to the athletes.

686
00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:33.199
<v Speaker 2>This is now, in my opinion, just the opposite that

687
00:38:33.280 --> 00:38:37.679
<v Speaker 2>the anti trust provision is beneficial to the workers and

688
00:38:38.039 --> 00:38:41.280
<v Speaker 2>maybe tilts the bargaining table a little bit more in

689
00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:42.239
<v Speaker 2>favor of the workers.

690
00:38:42.440 --> 00:38:48.480
<v Speaker 3>Fair analysis or no, it is the only issue is

691
00:38:48.519 --> 00:38:50.760
<v Speaker 3>you know, we're not talking about, you know, the unions

692
00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:53.440
<v Speaker 3>getting monopoly over the workforce at a faculty, which you

693
00:38:53.480 --> 00:38:56.800
<v Speaker 3>know we can debate about. You know, we're talking about

694
00:38:56.840 --> 00:39:01.719
<v Speaker 3>the union having a monopoly on everything coming into the

695
00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:04.599
<v Speaker 3>country on the East coast or in the Gulf. So

696
00:39:05.719 --> 00:39:07.960
<v Speaker 3>you know there's a much orguration here.

697
00:39:08.679 --> 00:39:10.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. But again, whether or not you're ever going to

698
00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:15.800
<v Speaker 2>get Congress to allow competing companies inside these ports, well,

699
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:17.679
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it's going to happen in my lifetime.

700
00:39:17.719 --> 00:39:19.960
<v Speaker 2>Maybe it will happen in your lifetime, Vina, thank you

701
00:39:19.960 --> 00:39:24.679
<v Speaker 2>for joining us tonight. Vincent Vernuccio, the president and co

702
00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:28.599
<v Speaker 2>founder of the Institute for the American Worker. Interesting topic

703
00:39:28.639 --> 00:39:31.320
<v Speaker 2>for me. I'm fascinated by this. I know our audience

704
00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:33.599
<v Speaker 2>was listening, but I think you answered their questions and

705
00:39:34.039 --> 00:39:35.920
<v Speaker 2>we'd like to keep in touch with you. You're a great guest.

706
00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:36.440
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, sir.

707
00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:38.480
<v Speaker 3>Hey, thanks for having me on.

708
00:39:39.079 --> 00:39:41.599
<v Speaker 2>And by the way, you can put this up on

709
00:39:41.639 --> 00:39:44.400
<v Speaker 2>your website. All you have to do sometime tomorrow is

710
00:39:44.440 --> 00:39:47.199
<v Speaker 2>go to Nightside on demand dot com and you can

711
00:39:47.199 --> 00:39:51.679
<v Speaker 2>pull that down from our podcast page, which Rob will

712
00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:53.880
<v Speaker 2>be happy to give you that information if you want

713
00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:57.400
<v Speaker 2>to hold on and you can circulate it amongst the

714
00:39:57.719 --> 00:40:01.000
<v Speaker 2>supporters of your organizations. So stay there and Rob will

715
00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:03.360
<v Speaker 2>give you the information more quickly. When we get back,

716
00:40:03.760 --> 00:40:07.159
<v Speaker 2>we're going to talk about this incredible hurricane. More than

717
00:40:07.159 --> 00:40:10.920
<v Speaker 2>two hundred and twenty people at this point are confirmed dead,

718
00:40:11.079 --> 00:40:13.159
<v Speaker 2>and that number still is going to rise in the

719
00:40:13.159 --> 00:40:15.760
<v Speaker 2>next few weeks. We'll be talking with a member of

720
00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:18.800
<v Speaker 2>the Massachusetts Task Force one, an urban search and rescue

721
00:40:18.840 --> 00:40:21.519
<v Speaker 2>team on the ground in North Carolina. After the ten

722
00:40:21.559 --> 00:40:22.239
<v Speaker 2>o'clock news