Speaker 1: At a book.
Speaker 2: If you'd like to be able to listen to the
show without ads and have full access to bonus content,
that's an option. To find out how, please go to
Dogmanencounters dot com forward slash podcast. Tonight's guest was featured
on episode six thirteen because of all the details he
had to share about his encounter. Though we weren't out
of time and didn't have time for me to ask
all the questions I had for him, So with that
in mind, asked him if you'd be interested in coming
back to do a Q and A, and luckily he
agreed to do that. Thanks again so much for coming back, Josh,
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Hey, no problem, Victim, glad to be here once again.
Speaker 2: Well, that's great having you back, Josh. For we missed
episode six thirteen. Please give us a fly over the
details of that encounter. Bring them up to speed.
Speaker 1: Sure. Well, it was the opening day of rifle season
in Michigan and I had went up to my camp
and I had walked out to go to my deer
blind before it was even light out, and I had
a few noises on the way there. It's in a
cedar swamp and all that but nothing major. I got
there waited for it to get light out pretty quick.
I would say, I noticed there was a dough there,
and I'm just looking down a lane and the rest
is all swamp and trees, cedar trees. You can't really
see in there, and so I'm looking at that, and
almost immediately I'm hearing what I think is a buck
walking to the lane, because they're in rut this time
of year. Well, that went on for quite some time,
and I don't think what came out made those footsteps,
but out of nowhere a massive looking wolf. I mean,
it looked pretty similar just to a regular wolf, but
I mean more like the size of a horse. And
it's not that far away, and it stepped out in
front of that dough. I immediately thought that was a
dog man type creature, just because of the size. And
I will say that I have listened to these shows
and stuff, and that's kind of what gave me that
knowledge and stuff of these creatures. Anyway. But so that
thing just stood there for a little bit and it
went off, and I sat there and thought about it.
I began to calm down of it because it didn't
seem like some evil creature and I don't think it was.
But I wasn't ready to walk out yet either, and
I just had to gather my thoughts. I've never seen
anything like that. Well, it was shortly after that I
noticed that either the same deer or another deer was there.
I think it was the same one. And beside that,
but more towards me, this black creature kind of I
guess it stood up. I'm not too sure. To me,
it looked like it just formed up really quick, and
it was all black. And this, immediately to me was
a dog man. See the pointed ears. It faced away
from me pretty quickly, and I could see the muscles
on its back, shoulder, stuff like that. It walked away
from me and made a swatting motion at the dough.
I could see its long claws. I don't think it
actually hit the dough, but I don't know where that
dough went from there. And then basically it will It
turned around, looked at me once and then back, and
then kept walking and it jumped high up into a tree.
And then it went and pounced off of that onto
a limb that was overhanging the lane, and it appeared
to just lay down on its belly and grasp that
limb like hug it with its arms and its back legs.
And now, no matter what I did with my scope,
I mean I couldn't see where its head was. I
can just see there's a ball there, you know. And yeah,
it was shortly after that. I watched that for a
good while decided to walk out or there. It was
terrifying to walk out. I did hear something following me.
I stopped. It got to be too much. I stopped
and yelled at it. I got my rifle off safety,
and you know, just told it, please don't step out
or any of that. Just stop. I'm leaving. If you
step out in front of me, I might show because
I'm on the verge of panic and running and oh
just thinking about it. But you know, I did make
it stopped, and I did make it back to the camp.
And that pretty much would sum up a short version
of what happened without too many details, really.
Speaker 2: And then went together to make for one heck of a
long morning for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah it really did. And I don't know if I
said before, but after I got back to camp, my
dad shot at ear so here I got to go
right back in the woods. But I mean a different
section of the woods and with my dad. But yeah,
so it was all a rough warning doing all that.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure it was. And after your dad shot
that one, at least you're with him, like you said,
you weren't alone, So that's better than your past situation.
I'm not calling you a liar, not by a long shot, Josh,
but that does sting put. When that giant wolf walked
out in front of it just doesn't make sense to
me at all. Deer just don't act that way when something.
Speaker 1: Like that happens.
Speaker 2: Do you have any thoughts on why it acted the
way it did that I missed?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do have a few, and I mean, like
I did say, you know, after that big wolf left,
It's not like I seen that dough right away. I
was kind of lost in the thought or whatever. But
at some point I noticed, not that I really seen movement,
but I'm looking through my scope and thinking, and I
see it there or what looks like a dough maybe
the same one. I'm thinking just because of the way
it looks, and I did. I was really trying to
look like, okay, am I you know, is that actually
a dough or like, cause so many things can look
like deer down that lane with all the mess, but
it wasn't moving. But here's my thoughts on that. Now,
when all this is happening, I did mention that I
felt those vibrations in the blind and in my feet
and maybe even like up to my knees a little bit.
So I guess my thoughts on the situation, even though
it does seem crazy. But when I heard walking up
that I thought was a buck coming for that dough,
I don't think was that first big wolf creature. Now
that I've thought about it, I think it was possibly
that black creature, dogged man like creature but walking on
two feet, and the other creature maybe or whatever it was,
I think something basically used infra sound, is what I'm
trying to say, and it maybe also hit that dough.
Is really the only time I seen that don't move
is when it was out there. We both heard movement
and it turned its head. Now, I guess that's a
theory I've come to because I've heard other stories about
this happening to deer and they're just frozen still. Now.
I don't even know if they could see that huge
like wolf creature that could have been possibly a spirit.
I'm not sure, Vic, my thoughts are all jumbled on
all of it. Now. The last thing I'll say, is
there a chance when I noticed that dough again and
it wasn't moving. Am I one hundred percent positive that
there was a dough there? I'm pretty sure, but not
one hundred percent because of what's going on in my
mind and fairly shortly there's that black creature. But I
do think it was there. That's really all I can
say about that.
Speaker 2: If that dog, mean, was there long before you ever
thought it was, that definitely would make sense. If it
hit that dough with infrasound, that would cause it to freeze,
or it could cause it to freeze like that. So
that's a really good explanation. Again, we don't know for
sure that was what happened, but that would definitely explain it.
Speaker 1: Right I and I never want to say anything in definites,
you know, I'm open to was that like an infrasound
weapon that hit me and it's making me see funny things?
I mean, that sounds a little bit crazy, but I'm
open to anything.
Speaker 2: I don't know what happened, well, infrasound can make you
do that so that's another good explanation. If you've had
a dog mean encounter, I would like to speak with
me about it, whether in private or on the show,
please go to dogmanthencounters dot com and submit a report
just out of curiosity, Josh, why do you hunt from
a blind on the ground instead of a tree stand?
Speaker 1: Well, for a couple reasons. When my dad and grandpa
built the camp in I believe it was ninety one,
might have been nineteen ninety, but either way that my
dad built that blind out there and he cut those lanes,
you got to imagine this thick, really thick cedar swamp.
I mean, there's nowhere you could walk in there. You'd
have to cut a whole big section if you wanted
to get up in a tree and be able to
bow hunt or shoot a rifle from there. But mainly
it's just because that's the blind, and that's what was
put there and was there for me to hunt as
I got older, you know, And I mean that is
the main reason. You know, my dad cut those lanes
years ago, put the blind there, and that's just where
me and my little brother grew up hunting. And I've
never really hunted anywhere else my whole life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes really good sense too. Yeah, it's much
easier to clear lanes on the ground a ground level
then to have to climb up and trim branches above
ground level. So yeah, like I said, that makes really
good sense. It sounds to me like that path you
had to walk down to get to your blind was
pretty darn claustrophobic. How much shoulder room would you say
you have on either side of you as you're walking
down that path between the dense brush on either side.
Speaker 1: You know, maybe five six feet. I mean you could
say this like I could carry my rifle sideways if
I needed to, but you would never walk shoulder to shoulder.
If me and my dad or brother going down there,
it'd always be one after the other because it is
very thin, and there's so many ups and downs and stumps,
and you know, it's nearly impossible to get a four
wheeler back there. So I've never measured it, but it is.
That's all there is is that little lane to get there.
And yeah, it's it's not too wide.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say it wasn't. Yeah, that sounds like it's
pretty tight to me. And if anyone has never been
in a cedar forest or a cedar swamp. The needles
at cedar trees drop. That makes it really easy to
walk around without making too much noise if you don't
want to make noise. So that right there makes it
even more intense to be in that situation. I feel
for you, I really do. When you got to the
blind that morning, how long did you have to wait
before sun up?
Speaker 1: Let's see, well I was. I did get there a
little later then I wanted to, but it was still dark.
But after letting my eyes adjust, you know, maybe after
five minutes, five ten minutes, it's starting to get light,
and then it's slowly getting light from there. Because I
want to say, I left to go to the blind
around five forty five am, and then if I'm getting there,
let's say between like six and six ten am. I mean,
just to guess, a person could look up, you know
what time the sun's coming up in Michigan that time
of year. But I might be a little off, but
I do know as I got there settled, it slowly
seems like it's already starting to get light after a little.
Speaker 2: Bit, so you didn't have to wait all that long. Then, Yeah,
that's good Thank goodness for that, considering what you experienced.
Not all that long after that, when you made it
to the blind, you heard movement around you. You said,
how close do that movement seem to be to you?
And exactly how long would you say it was that
that movement started after you sat down in the blind.
Speaker 1: Actually, when I sat down in the blind, I was
already hearing movement in the woods, which to me just
was maybe there's bucks chasing does around right now, you know,
which this isn't not normally the case. I mean, sometimes
there might be deer there as it gets light out.
I'm normally not hearing movement like this, So I'm thinking
a buck is chasing a dough or like I've seen
them do, like trotting after one, and they're not really
caring about their footsteps and stuff. So I'm hearing that.
And then I'm also hearing heavier thudding what I think
are footsteps, I'm not too sure. And then it all,
you know, it all happened really quick. I'm listening to
all this thinking about it. Then I noticed this doze there.
I didn't see it walk out, which is pretty normal.
There's plenty of times down that lane. Or you know,
you'll check one lane, look back and you just kind
of notice up there one walked out and now it's
standing still. So I, you know, didn't see it right away,
but so that happened. And as soon as I look
at this door through the scope, she's paying attention. I've
seen her move her head because these footsteps did kind
of stop and go, but not a whole lot. And
then you know, pretty quick me and her both here
when are somewhat like deer like footsteps. But she cocked
her head that way, moved a hear maybe, and just
kind of stayed like that. And now I'm just setting
up the shot for a buck to come. But i'd
say ten twelve, fifteen minutes. Maybe I'm hearing that thing
walking around and I keep thinking it's okay, it's right there,
it's going to come out onto the lane, and it wouldn't.
So I don't know if it was coming up to
the lane and you know, moving around deciding what it's
going to do, and then that bigger wolf like creature
stepped out on all fours. I mean, we're not talking
long probably all together. I don't know, under an hour
though for sure. Forty five minutes. Then when I see
the dough. We're talking very maximum twenty minutes until the
first creature appears.
Speaker 2: When I heard you give us that playbop play on
hearing those footsteps moving around you on last week's show,
I had a hard time telling if that shook you
up or if you weren't bothered by it, considering the
fact that, like you said, it could have easily been
a buck. Did hearing that movement shake you up? Or
did you take it all in stride.
Speaker 1: If I'm being totally honest, it's both. Like I'm putting
that stuff in the back of my mind, pushing it away.
But yes, I am thinking it, and yes, like I said,
once I heard them thudding footsteps, I'm just trying to Okay,
don't worry about that, this is probably just a buck coming.
I got it ready, I got the safety off. I'm
really pushing it down. I'm staying aware, and that is
in my mind. But you know, it's it became harder
and harder, and I guess in other situations that's what
I try to do too. If I'm getting scared about
something is just no, no, you know, push it away.
But once certain things happen, happened. You just can't you know,
when that wall stepped out, I mean I didn't know
what to do with that, and that close and but yeah,
I had these thoughts basically right away because I'm not
normally hearing this kind of movement all over like that.
So it was a little of both.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. Were those subjects that you heard
moving around you in a circular way or were they
moving randomly?
Speaker 1: Well, I didn't ever here, I'm like circle the blind,
I don't think. But for the most part, let's see,
I would I would have been facing east. I mean,
they're all coming from like the same patch of woods,
like to the right of this lane. I'm looking down
all the which is my land, like, so there shouldn't
no other hunter or nothing like that. And both of
the creatures came out basically, well, one stepped out from
the right side of the lane, and then the other
one seemed like it was there, maybe laying down on
the edge of the right side of the lane. But yeah,
pretty much in it. You know, sounds do bounce around
in the woods, so it's hard when you hear a
gunshot to pinpoint exactly. But to me, everything was coming
from that same patch of woods basically to my like
three o'clock position.
Speaker 2: From me, it sure seems to me like you evaluate
things when things happened to you. Sounds to me like
you really slow down, take your time and evaluate things
instead of just overreacting right off the bat. Is that accurate?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is one, because I'm hunting, so I'm paying
attention to every little thing. You know, my Dad's always
taught me this, and a lot of it really does
come from him. I know he'd be doing the same thing.
He'd be pushing all that those noises further away from
his mind, though he'd really want to get the buck.
I mean, and like I did, but in a way,
it was more important for me to get a nice buck,
and then you know, my dad would be happy. I'd
be happy. I'm just trying to do what I'm there
to do. But I am like that because I do
think about these things, and I don't know, maybe from
growing up in what me and my mom considered a
haunted house at least for a while, It's just it
is a little hard for me to, you know, go
through those woods. I'm not going to do it now,
but at the time, in the dark and yeah, I'm
really listening and paying attention, and I do. I've always
taught myself not to panic. That's the last thing I
want to do is panic, because then I have control
of nothing. So yeah, I do.
Speaker 2: That's always a good quality to have, especially in the woods.
You told us about that strange metallic sound you heard.
What more can you tell us about that?
Speaker 1: Well, it was just once, and it didn't seem like
it was that far it was. Now, I can't remember
how early on I heard that, Like i'd have to
maybe I have it in my notes. I don't have here,
but I'm not sure, for instance, if that occurred after
the first wolf creature or before, but I might want
to say before. But either way, it was real quick.
And you know, I've heard about these type of sounds
and other accounts of either it sounds like a door
shutting in the middle of nowhere or kind of metallic sound.
What I can say for sure it was not a
car on this road. There's no way a car could
even get on this road without me knowing. It's so quiet.
It wasn't a four wheeler. It's you know, it was
just a quick like as if something took its fist
and hit it, not super hard, but hit like a
some type of a piece of aluminum and just created
like that metallic and then sound and little echo. It
was just that once. And you know, I know people
think portal opening and stuff like that, and I did
have that thought, but not saying I believe that or
know that. It's just from watching all these shows. So
it happened, and then I was quickly distracted with more
footstep sounds and stuff.
Speaker 2: When you hear something really strange like that, any guess
is as good as another. All we can do is
guess is to what that was. So it's not like
you get any further ahead by trying to do that.
After we recorded last week's show, you realized that you
had mistated something. Please expand on that for us.
Speaker 1: Oh, I just was thinking about, you know, the lane
that goes from the gravel road to the blind I
hunt in. I guess isn't really as far, not quite
as far in as I was thinking, because I know
the lane in that same direction on the other side
of the blind goes quite a ways too, so I
would say, well, I know the way too. The blind
is longer, probably longer than that lane. Anyway, I think now,
I think probably the blinds. You know, gosh, no more
than between two and three hundred yards, because that lane
looks like it goes quite a ways, and I know
it has to go right to the end of our property.
So I just wanted to say that. I don't want
to say the lane to the blinds three hundred yards
in and then this lane that keeps going is another
three hundred yards when really it should only be four
hundred and forty yards total. So, and the only other
thing is the way I was facing. I may have
said the wrong direction, but I'm facing eastward when I'm
looking at the dough in these creatures, and I just
wanted to, you know, let that be known that I
thought about it and misjudge some yards, most likely because
these are all just me guessing the Amoni yards.
Speaker 2: Of course, Well, thanks for interest in setting a street
on that. But yeah, we're not going to hold that
against you. I do worse than that all the time, right,
I hope not. Oh no, I do trust me on that.
Did you have any other weapons with you that morning
besides your rifle?
Speaker 1: No, just my thirty out six bolt action rifle. I
don't even think I had no I didn't have a knife.
Speaker 2: No, not that that would have made much of a
big deal or brought you any more comfort, Because if
that rifle didn't get the job done, very few handguns
are going to be all that useful. So what's the point.
Did you ever happen to notice a mean on that
black dog man?
Speaker 1: No, if there was one that was small or unnoticeable
because of how black he was, I mean, he was
so black, But I can't say that I did notice
a mean.
Speaker 2: No, how about a tail.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty confident he didn't have a tail or. It
was extremely short or tucked up underneath them. He didn't
have no long tail. I'm pretty confident about that. But
if he had one, yeah, I think it was short
or he had to tuck somehow. I think I would
have noticed that tail sticking out to the side or
down or something. If you know, if he had one.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you had so many thoughts going through
your head at the time. I can't fault you for
not noticing those things or annoying. For sure, if it
did have a tail or, if it did have a mean, Also,
the fact it was so dark, the dog meat was
so black. Now I'm kind of fuzzy on the lighting situation.
How long was it after sun up that you saw it?
Was it full sun up by the time he came along,
or was the sun still in the process of coming up.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it was up. I mean it was up
decent enough. It's always a little darker in those woods.
But yeah, I mean I could see. So it's not
like trying to think here about the time even I'm
not sure, but I had enough light to see him
and well down that lane, and I had my scope,
so I wasn't you know, It's not like he was
blacker than the black outside, Like there was light lighting
up the branches, the leaves and all that. So I
had good you know, I could see good.
Speaker 2: Well, that can be a good thing, and that can
be a bad thing. Sometimes it's not a good thing
to be able to see one of these guys all that. Well,
So yeah, it's kind of a toss up. It sounds
to me like you got a pretty look at his claws.
How do you describe their shape? You know?
Speaker 1: Nothing? Well, okay, here's what he did and when I
seen them, because when he's just walking, I'm not really
seeing them. But when he took his arm back and
then swung it around with what seemed like quite a
bit of force. But he stopped, or he didn't stop.
But before he put his arm back in the normal position,
I could see, because I'm looking through a scope that
I've powered up a little, I could see like where
his palm was, and that his fingers were longer, and
he had those claws and they you know, all I
could really notice in that time is that the separation
of claw from fingertip they look to come to a point.
I couldn't tell if they were extremely curved or a little.
The most I really can say is that they looked
like they came to a point kind of and they
were pretty long. You know. You want to expect like
these long claws on like these skinny fingers, I guess,
and they certainly weren't like a regular dog's claws. You know.
They were skinny and long and kind of like the fingers.
But you could tell where the claws started and ended.
But you know, that's just kind of a snapshot in
my mind. But I had the thought when he did that, like, yep,
there's there's them claws and skinny fingers. Because I'm like
really trying to make sure, like, like, what is this
am I just you know, I'm kind of blinking my
eyes a little, but no, I've seen that.
Speaker 2: Well, it's only natural you would do that and pay
attention to them. You're trying to assess him as being
a threat, so you're trying to evaluate how dangerous he
might have been. That's one of the first things you're
going to look at would be his claws. So that
makes sense. You saw him from behind, and you also
saw him from the side. How much of a forward
hunch did he seem to have.
Speaker 1: Though, Well, when he first stood up, it wasn't overly exaggerated, really,
But I guess now that I think about him when
he's walking away, Yeah, I guess, because when he did
start walking away, I could still see them pointy ears.
But he had to have his head or the placement
of his head I'm not sure slightly hunched, but it's
mainly like his head that was kind of forward. Maybe it,
you know, his shoulders a bit, but just not as
much as maybe I've heard sometimes. But he had these
back muscles that I quickly while he's walking away, I noticed.
So that's at the point I started trembling a bit.
Speaker 2: Well, I bet you did. And please clarify. You said
his head might have been set forward.
Speaker 1: Yeah, almost, hmmm. I guess maybe, like if a person
was walking away, he'd be able to see their neck
in their head. Now, when this thing was walking away,
I can't see his neck, but I probably And he's
so black, it's so hard, but you know, I maybe
could see the top of his head and his ears
like coming up above his shoulders. Yeah, and even when
he was to the side for a second, I just
really couldn't tell you, but I do believe he was
had a little bit of a hunch in some way.
It's just so hard to pick out details when you're
something's that black. Even in the daylight. I mean that
light didn't seem to with him at least it didn't
seem to matter too much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pretty common with these guys. How tall would
you see his ears were? And did they seem to
be more on top of his head on the sides.
Speaker 1: Well, they were. They seem to be up top. Whether
he's keeping them pricked that way, I don't know, but
they were probably Let me see it with my fingers, maybe,
you know, maybe a good four four and a half
to five inches. It's hard to see when he's down
there and I'm looking through the scope and up, you know,
but for the size of his head, and yeah, his
ears were on kind of on top and pretty pointed.
I didn't see no tuughs at the top or nothing.
But they weren't overly crazy compared to his head size.
But the weird thing would be that how up top
they are and just point it up like that, come
to that perfect like point. Yeah, maybe four to five inches.
Speaker 2: Man, that's still pretty tall. Was his head in proportion
size wise to his body or out of proportion?
Speaker 1: I would say close, but a little maybe out of proportion.
And you know, just because of his muscles, you know,
his body looks like a man's body with these muscles
and stuff. And I didn't really see it from the front,
but from the back, how would I say that? I
guess it seemed okay since he had like kind of
wide shoulders and the muscles and stuff. But like if
he didn't, then his hot body was just like a
regular dog. Well, then his head would not look right,
you know, proportionately wise, at least, No.
Speaker 2: I definitely wouldn't.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: How good of a look did you get? At his legs.
Speaker 1: Not as good as his body and stuff, because that's
mainly what I'm focused on. His legs. You know, to me,
they were and I've thought about this. To me, they
were like canine legs. But and that's what I've said
to myself. But when I've went back and really truly
thought about it, do I know that for sure? So
I'm trying to picture when he jumped and stuff. That's
just what how I remember it, at least, But I'm
not sure of that, you know, I can't. I can say,
like his calfs, at least the tops of them seem
to have some muscle. But yeah, I truly didn't observe
those that much.
Speaker 2: Well, like I told you before, you deserve a lot
of credit for all the details you did notice, So
hats off to you. You said you're looking at him
through a scope, and with that in mind, did he
happen to notice anything about his genitals?
Speaker 1: Nope, nothing there at all. I mean there could have
been there, but I just didn't notice or anything like that.
Speaker 2: Oh that's all right, and a biggie there he saw
him do some pretty extraordinary things. But I'm still not
sure about how you feel about all this. Do you
think that that means he was a spiritual being or
do you think he might have been flesh and blood
and just had some special abilities.
Speaker 1: I want to lean towards he was flesh and blood
and had some special abilities, But you don't want the
way I didn't notice nothing there before he was there.
It was kind of like just a black shadow formed
up into a dog man. But that could just be
because I'm looking at the deer and I notice it,
even though it's kind of in the frame of my scope. Anyway,
it seems they just do things like this anyway. But
with everything he did, you know, I do have to
just wonder, like, is that was that just a spirit?
Was it a spiritual creature? But when he turned to
look at me, I mean, I don't know. At the
same time, I feel like I could have shot him.
I mean, he was there the whole time until I left.
So yeah, it's it's hard to say, and it does
bother me. It wouldn't bother me as much if I
could say, well, that was just a spirit and that's
why it did that. You know, if a physical thing
can do that, that's a lot more perplexing, I guess,
And scary, oh.
Speaker 2: No doubt, and not knowing the worst part it definitely
is this could go one of two ways. I'm not
sure which way this goes with you, but it's got
to be awfully tense to sit there and know that
this strange creature is right there, this creature that's so frightening.
It's just right there. I'm looking at it. But also,
on the other hand, after you got back to camp,
your dad shot that deer, you had to head back
into the woods with them, which circumstance had you more
frightened because after you went out there with your dad,
you were with him, you weren't alone, but you had
seen what one of these things could do, and you
had that much more time to think about this old
dog man situation, which situation had you more fearful.
Speaker 1: While I was one hundred percent more fearful of getting
older than woods by myself while I'm looking at this thing,
because I didn't have no way to contact anybody, But
after staring at it for that long, when it kind
of formed itself into a ball, and I even there
was a split second where I thought, like, of, like,
what would happen if I shot that? Like is it's
still just a spirit. But anyway, yeah, it bothered me
enough to where I got to get out of this
little tiny blind and I just got to get out
of these woods. But to be honest, the thing with
my dad is too, like one of my biggest things
that's always been in my mind and part of my
life is I don't ever want to let him down.
And now he just shot a nice buck. I mean,
so I'm I mean, whether it kills me or not,
I'm going out there to help him. He can't get
this by hisself, you know, he can't do it by hisself.
And at least I'm with him and he's got a rifle.
And we're also behind the camp now, you know. And
I did tell him what happened, so he at this point,
so he knew, and you know, we're going in there
quiet and looking around and stuff and yeah, I just nothing,
you know, nothing of know what happened. I pardon of
me wanted him to see it, not right there and then,
but just so he knows like that it's there and
believes me. But yeah, that was nothing behind the camp
with my dad compared to what I just went through.
Because at this point with my dad doing all this
work when I'm on like an adrenaline dump, and plus
the physical work I did just getting out of that
swamp and back to the camp. I mean, I'm almost
like on the verge of passing out by the time
we're on our way out of there. So it was rough.
But yeah, that's my thoughts on that.
Speaker 2: Well, you still have a lot of sand, because most
people never would have headed back into the woods even
if they weren't alone. So the fact that you did,
especially for the reasons you laid out, that tells me
you definitely do have a lot of sand. As your
encounter with him was playing out, did the thought that
he might not have been alone ever cross your mind?
Speaker 1: You know what? It? Actually? It should have. It should
have for me, But no, it didn't. I was solely
focused on him, I guess, and maybe did because at
one point I heard something like to my right, and
that actually caused me to look away and look back
real quick. But he was still there, so I was
aware there was maybe other things going on. You know.
The whole thing too with it is that he didn't
First of all, I knew what he was the second
I seen him, Like, there's nothing else it could be
in my mind, and it's because of you know, listening
to shows like this, and he walked away from me.
He didn't vocalize, He did do some crazy acrobatics that
I don't know what I thought of that it blew
my mind. But I've heard of that too.
Speaker 2: And just.
Speaker 1: Walking out of there was scary, very much so, and
I was, you know, on the verge of panic and running.
But I think because of all them things that he
didn't start walking towards me, you know, and vocalizing or
anything like that, and just being prepared. And I've been
hunting my whole life. I think people got to understand too,
all them things come into play.
Speaker 2: Oh sure, yeah they do. Thank goodness, you're able to
draw upon enough experiences where you're able to handle that
experience as well as you did. Some people would have
made a lot of mistakes that might have put them
in danger. Thank goodness you didn't do that. Now I
can wrap my head around everything you've said about that
experience except one thing, Josh, and that is after having
that encounter, why didn't you leave? Was that because your
dad had brought you to that camp and he wouldn't
take you home, or for some other reason.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, that's part of it. And you know
it's he makes such a big deal of it. You know,
it's once a year and hunting, and I understand that,
and it's almost like, well, not just as scared, but
like I would feel so bad and just if I
let him down. And I know, you know, anything that's
going to mess up hunting like is a big deal.
So I just I was. I made it in my
mind like I'm okay with staying here for this moment
or this night. I'll take it day by day. But
nighttime was hard. But you know, I wasn't going back
out in them woods, not over there or really any woods.
But if I seen a deer from the camp, I
would shoot it maybe. But yeah, I mean it's been
like that my whole life. Like I've never said no
to my dad once. I've never raised my voice to him,
So it's kind of all that. And I did end
up leaving anyway, and you know, now he wants me
to go back there every day is texting me, but
I haven't.
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, that's just too much weight on a
young back. I'm glad you haven't gone back. Your encounter
happened ten days ago. On a scale from one to ten,
how would you read how traumatized you are now by
that experience?
Speaker 1: Well, with that happening wherein when it did, and the
fact that it caused, you know, an argument between me
and my dad or really mainly him yelling at me,
and even though he apologized the next morning and he
was drinking and you know, but I mean it was
it was all it's all revolved around this, you know,
and it's just yeah, like those two things combined and now, well,
yeah there's trauma there to some degree, Like I'm not happy,
you know. It ain't like, oh I finally seen one
of these things, Like no, I didn't want to ever
see one of these, Like I had an interest or
maybe I still do, I don't know, but if anything,
one day, liked to maybe see a bigfoot, like while
I'm driving across the road. But it's just too much
and what it caused, and it's like every day it's
these two things that happened, they're just in my mind,
and yeah, it's ruining things for me for sure. I'm
not sure that.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's not good though, Well.
Speaker 2: It's all so fresh, you've had time and I'm thinking
it is going to get a lot better. And as
far as your dad goes, I'm pretty disappointed in him.
If you won thing, if you didn't know what a
dog man was before this all happened, but he knew
what one was. And with that said, he definitely didn't
make this as easy for you to deal with as
he could have. You made this a lot more difficult
in a lot of ways. And yeah, for that, I'm
pretty disappointed in him. But oh well, you'll have that sometimes.
Have you had any trouble with nightmares due to that experience?
Speaker 1: Ah my? Yeah, just one the day it happened after
my dad's deer. We're all done with that and everything.
I don't know, it's just exhausted, and I laid on
the couch and fell asleep, and I imagine he was
right there, you know, five feet away from me at
the table. We said at the whole time. But I
don't know. I got my nightmare was. I don't really know.
I can't remember now, but I thought I had woke up,
but really this is me dreaming. I went up to
my dad and I was like yelling for him because
I knew something was wrong, and like he wasn't answering,
and then like I woke up. I don't even know
if this is real. Then I'm back and having this nightmare,
and I woke up again and he told me like, no,
you never got out of that, and came and talked
to me. So I don't know about that. But when
I actually did wake up, he said I was screaming
dah Dad like a lot, and repeatedly. And I don't
normally ever yell in my sleep that I know of
or people have told me, so I'm not sure. I can't.
I know at the time, I just can't remember what
was going on in the dream. The only part I
do remember is dreaming walking to my dad in the
camp and screaming his name. You're trying to get to him.
Speaker 2: People do a lot of things after a dog me
in the encounter they normally don't do, so that's entirely possible.
You just might have done that. What did your dad
tell you about his encounter? Sounds like you might have
seen one.
Speaker 1: That was I think two years ago. We stayed up
there for the summer pretty much because he was off
of work, and I mean we'd run, you know, to
town and stuff. But Anyway, it was a night I
decided to sleep home, which god, I'd been at camp
like slept there every night pretty consistently, and this night, yeah,
I slept home. My daughter came over and stuff. But anyway,
I think it was between like seven and ten at night.
He texted me and he said, like literally his words are,
I think I'd just seen a dog man, which we had, like,
you know, in recent times, talked about these things because
he didn't used to believe in none of it, but
he had heard like a dog man's story from his
boss or something, I think, and then I don't know,
he decided that they're interdimensional. And ever since he decided
or heard that, he thought, yeah, they are real. But anyway,
that was all before now. He texted me that and
told me where it was behind the camp, and I
know the exact area. I went there the next day
and there's really like there was like six foot tall
just grass and weeds in this area. And it was
at night, but we do have a floodlight that lights
up the whole backyard and even into the edge of
the woods a little, and you know, he's sitting at
the table watching out this big bay window we have
like always, and he seemed something moving through there and
he said he thought like coyotder welf for a second
and then he thought, well, no, it's too tall, And yeah,
he said it. I asked him. I was like, did
it look like it was on two legs, like where
you could just see the head and part of the
body or something, And he said yeah, and he said
something around its face seemed messed up, like it looked
like it had like a maybe a raccoon in its
mouth or something, which made sense because he had been
shooting some raccoons behind camp because there was just a
million of them, not literally, but I mean there was
a lot of them, so he was thinning them out
a little. And I said, well, maybe it, you know,
grabbed one of the raccoons that you know, that you
shot and didn't realize you got because normally we'd go
get them and chuck them somewhere else. But yeah, I
mean he didn't. It was just you know, it was
walking through there. That's what he thought he's seeing. I guess,
not a good look, but was really tall grass. It'd
have to be tall to him to see it above that,
So I'm just not sure, you.
Speaker 2: Know, do you think I'm reading him wrong. Some people
just have a hard time getting their feelings across. With
that in mind, it makes it really easy to misread them.
But as far as your dad goes, it seems to
me like he's not that concerned about your ability to
come to terms with the encounter. Like I said, am
I reading him wrong somehow?
Speaker 1: Well? Yeah, I mean, I you know, I love my
dad and stuff. He was just drinking too much that night.
But I mean his thing with this kind of stuff
is like he always acts like if he's seen one
or in the woods, whether it be a sasquash dog man, whatever,
he acts like he wouldn't be afraid and he'd shoot
it if he had to, but he wouldn't unless he
had to. And you know he so, and then it's
right during hunting season, you know, And and I kept,
i you know, kept bringing it up, and I even
felt I brought it up and he didn't like it
because he was about to go in the woods. I
mean that's what he told me, like, stop talking about
that now I'm going out there, you know. And I
was like, Oh, I didn't think you were afraid of
these things really, But yeah, like I don't want to
be too harsh to my dad. You know, he just
that day, you know, get friends stop by kind of
early and they were drinking and they left, and the
day I left, I mean so you know, I mean
he did apologize the next morning and all that, but
he just doesn't He just didn't understand, you know, like
how much does he really believe in these things? And yeah,
if he does, he doesn't understand. I've tried to tell him.
I was like most people who've seen these things, like
at least their face and everything aren't like like traumatized,
you know, and that part I don't think he gets.
I mean that probably have to happen to him for hisself,
and like with mine, you know, it only turned around
now one time to look at me, and I knew
about this, so I kind of looked away when I
did that. I just don't want anyone to get it wrong,
Like if that thing came towards me or I've seen
his face too long, I mean, that would have probably
been it. I want to know them what to do,
But yeah, I don't want to be too hard to
my dad. Really, you know, it's just he don't understand.
I guess that's all.
Speaker 2: And it does sound to me like he has a
hard time expressing himself when it comes to things like this.
Hats off to him. He apologized to you the next morning. Yeah,
good man for doing that. This is also fresh now, Josh.
But down the road, how much of an effect do
you think that encounters can have on interest in Honey.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm more of a fisherman anyway. So yeah,
I've thought about that. I don't know if I care to, really,
I don't. I don't really have no interest ever in
going back out to that blind you know, and and
so hard because at the same time, I don't want
to let my dad down. But there used to be
you know, more people, my grandpa and my brothers, and
you know, like if I'm not there now it's just him,
and I hate picturing that. But yeah, be I don't
know what I'm gonna do. I'd be fine not you know, hunting,
at least not there. I'll probably always still get my
dear tag just in case or you know, stuff like that. Yeah,
I don't know. I probably don't. I don't think I'll
be going back out in them woods anytime soon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's understandable. You talked about this in Part one.
You said that for the longest time you've wanted to
see a sasquatch. Now that you've had that dog man encounter, though,
would you still like to see a sasquatch? Are you
good now?
Speaker 1: No? I'm good. I mean I think them things are
there too, from what I've seen and heard, and but
I don't, you know, they seem to just like maybe
make a noise to let me know I'm there, or
that's what I'm hoping. I don't know, but I went
back and forth on that for so long. Do I
want to see one of these sasquatch? No, at most
crossing a road, And now I really don't even care.
But you know, people get traumatized for them too. What
I want when walking up to my car, like where
I am right now and I see it's face. No,
it's all about when you see that face. I know
it is, like that's a huge thing. People always talk
about the face in both of these things. But if
I had to pick one over the other, I would
pick the sasquatch. But that could be just as bad,
you know. I don't know. But nope, I don't want
to see nothing. I really don't.
Speaker 2: I can understand, I really do. Speaking of the whole
Sasquatch activity thing, that's what you did say the first
time we spoke that there was some activity report to
death at Camp well More. Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was that summer. I stayed up there trying
to think. Here. A lot of little things happened, like
spread out like I heard at night. I heard a
couple like whoop noises when I had the window open,
and then a couple like knocks, and my dad was
there for that. And me and my dad were outside
one day and we heard something and then a tree
fell like not that far behind camp in the woods,
and then there was like a shriek over to our
right and me and both my dad heard that. I
remember him looking at me and he said, he's never
heard a tree fall around there. I mean ever, not
that it couldn't happen, but you know, it was during
the day. There wasn't any wind or nothing. And then
let's see, I know there was a couple other kind
of bigger things that happened. But my dad came in
and got me one day he was outside, I guess
he was looking down the road and he told me,
He's like, I don't know, Josh, there's either like a
black bear down there, or maybe a really big guy
with black clothes on, or you know. He didn't know.
So I went out there with the binoculars, and like,
way down the road I seen what looked like a
huge black bear, like in the ditch, like maybe coming
onto the road, and it wasn't sure, and I think
I handed on to him, and then when he handed
them back to me. I don't know how or why,
but all of a sudden, I put the binoculars up
and on the right side of the road walking our way,
like I just seen a face, and I just put
them down immediately because I thought it looks like I'm
staring at someone and wanted to think that, you know.
And I don't know how or how it got that close,
or if it was a person, I don't know. But
we went inside and we watched out the window because
whoever and whatever it is, it has to go by
the camp. So we just watched the road by the camp.
Basically it never went by, or we thought, you know,
it hasn't gone by yet, but realistically it would take
quite a bit of time. But I went out there anyway,
And I looked to my right where we seen this
thing and possibly that person. I didn't see nothing. And
I looked to my left, and like, I don't know,
fifty sixty seventy yards down there, there's what looks like
a huge person walking away. And I don't have the
binoculars this time, but they're just all black. And I'm
not thinking sasquatch or anything like that either, not even
a little. So I can't figure out why this person,
like clearly if it's a person, they got like black
snow pants on and like a big black poofy jacket
and have their hood up, and I can't see any
separation in clothing. So I just went to get my dad,
which is just real quick, you know, like the roads
right there, the camps right there. He came back out.
I'd say it took maybe ten to no more in
fifteen seconds, for sure, But either way, that thing or
person has a lot more road to walk, and they
somehow got by our camp by I guess, going through
the woods and around, but I don't know how they
could do that in that amount of time than it was.
But me and my dad went back out there, and
now there's nothing. You know, you can just see for
ever until the gravel road hits the next road. So
that was really weird. And on the way out, we're
walking back out there with my dad and he says, well,
maybe it was like, you know, like a sasquatch, or
he just said the word sasquatch and it clicked in
my head, and I'm like, oh my god, maybe that's
why I couldn't see, you know, no separation and clothing
or nothing. And but then you know, we go to
look and yeah, it wasn't there, So it had to
have gone in the woods. I know that. Or if
it was a sasquatch, they can just move so fast
and do what they do. So my dad always said
that that was a sasquatch because it couldn't get from
point e point A to point B in that amount
of time like a person couldn't do it. They absolutely couldn't,
not without going past their camp. So I don't really
know about that one, but I mean, all these little
things happening that are sasquatch related, noises and knocks and whoops,
tree pushed over possibly, and then that leads me to
believe that was possibly a sasquatch.
Speaker 2: Sure sounds to me like there's a strong possibility it was.
And it's funny you mentioned that encounter, that experience, because
I had an encounter that was pretty similar to that. Now.
I don't know for sure that it was a sasquatch
that I saw anymore than you do. But if you
want to listen to what happened to me, if you
go to Sawdust Beast and Sawdust Dispelled sst instead of
a single less but Sawdust Beast, if you look for
my name Vic Kundiff, you can catch that interview where
I talk about what happened that day. But having said
all that, Josh, it's about time for us to get
out of here. But before we do, doifney clothes and
comments you want to put.
Speaker 1: Out there for us? Yeah, sure, I guess. Once again,
I just really want to say that. You know, some
people might not believe me because I said I been
watching these shows for years and my interest and certain things,
you know, and I just want everyone to know I'm
just telling the truth about what I've seen. I don't
know if somehow something made me see those things and
they weren't real, if they were spirits, anything, And I'm
open to suggestions, but you know, I'm just telling my
story and that's how it happened. And yeah, I guess
I guess that's about that's about it. And yeah, Vic,
I'll definitely go check out that show you mentioned there too,
So yeah.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll post a link
for that show that I did in the description for
tonight's show. Had to make it really easy for you
to find it and anyone else who wants to listen
to it. But having said all that, thanks Against so
much for coming on for this part too, for the
Q and A. I really appreciate you coming back, and
always remember if you ever need help, I'll be there
for you. All you need to do is just let
me know and I'll be there.
Speaker 1: Thanks Vick, I appreciate it, and yeah, anytime, I'm glad
to be here.
Speaker 2: Well, that's great to have you. Thanks Against so much
for your time, Josh, and have a great night.