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<v Speaker 4>Whome to the Family vdW group noper dost necessary if

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<v Speaker 5>You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking

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<v Speaker 5>killers in true crime history and the authors that have

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<v Speaker 5>written about them. Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK. Every

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<v Speaker 5>week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and

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<v Speaker 5>infamous killers in true crime history True Murder with Your

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<v Speaker 5>Host journalist and author Dan Zufanski.

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<v Speaker 6>Good Evening. Multi millionaire Stephen Beer Junior fell hard for

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<v Speaker 6>Celeste Martini Martinez, a shapely Blowe waitress who served him

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<v Speaker 6>as nightly cocktail at the local country club, as well

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<v Speaker 6>as sexual favors. In nineteen ninety five, the seven year

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<v Speaker 6>old widow Beard married the thirty two year old mother

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<v Speaker 6>of twin teenagers and gave her homes, cars, and more

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<v Speaker 6>jewelry and designer clothes than she could ever wear. But

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<v Speaker 6>it wasn't enough for Celeste. Claiming she was depressed, she

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<v Speaker 6>checked into a psychiatric facility where she met fellow patient

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<v Speaker 6>Tracy Tarlton, a prominent bookstore manager. Celeste seduced Tracy, convincing

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<v Speaker 6>her that the only way they could be together would

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<v Speaker 6>be to kill Steve, claiming in the wee hours of

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<v Speaker 6>an October morning, Steve awoke to a shotgun blast to

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<v Speaker 6>his gut. Tracy was arrested, but refused to implicate Celeste

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<v Speaker 6>until she learned the truth about her lover. In as

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<v Speaker 6>sordid trial sensationalized even more by the antics of fame,

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<v Speaker 6>Texas Defense attorney Dick to gain. The depths of Celeste's

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<v Speaker 6>lies were revealed in a Tale of Lust, Betrayal and Regret.

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<v Speaker 6>The book that we're profiling this evening is The Fortune

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<v Speaker 6>Hunter with my special guest journalist and author, Susie Spencer.

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<v Speaker 6>Welcome back to the program, and thank you for agreeing

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<v Speaker 6>to this interview. Susie Spencer.

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<v Speaker 7>Thank you for having me again.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, thank you very much. It hasn't been that long,

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<v Speaker 6>but it's was my great pleasure to have you on

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<v Speaker 6>just a while ago. And here we are again with

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<v Speaker 6>another wild tale. So let's talk a little bit about

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<v Speaker 6>because there's so much information jam packed in over four

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<v Speaker 6>hundred pages in this book, and very deservedly too. There's

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<v Speaker 6>no padding whatsoever, just crazy stuff. Let's start a little

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<v Speaker 6>bit with Celeste with her original maiden name, and because

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<v Speaker 6>she goes through a succession of marriages, so just to

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<v Speaker 6>start to describe Celeste and her character, let's just talk

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<v Speaker 6>about her first marriages. Let's start at that point in

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<v Speaker 6>her life and talk about the characteristics that mar her

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<v Speaker 6>relationships and then are characterized in her relationships right from

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<v Speaker 6>the very beginning.

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<v Speaker 7>Well, Celeste has always had a rocky start in life.

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<v Speaker 7>She was adopted by a mother and father who could

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<v Speaker 7>not have kids, but adopted four overall, and they were not,

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<v Speaker 7>shall we say, the most emotionally stable people in the world.

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<v Speaker 7>People would tell me that her father was an alcoholic

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<v Speaker 7>and drug addict who then became very religious, changed his

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<v Speaker 7>name Jedediah, and wanted to become a university professor, whereas

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<v Speaker 7>he had been a Volkswagen car mechanic. Her mother was, Oh,

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<v Speaker 7>let's face it, she was crazy. I mean, is Lee crazy.

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<v Speaker 7>She was put in psych words several times. At one

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<v Speaker 7>point she tried to believe stab a friend. I know

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<v Speaker 7>that she was beating up a friend, and the friend

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<v Speaker 7>and her family kicked her out. And then Celeste went

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<v Speaker 7>and stripped off her clothes and went banging on not Celeste.

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<v Speaker 7>Celest's mother went, you know, stripped off her clothes and

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<v Speaker 7>went banging on doors. And so this was kind of

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<v Speaker 7>the life where Celeste grew up. She claims that her

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<v Speaker 7>father molested her from starting at age four up until

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<v Speaker 7>about twelve. She then claims that her eldest adopted brother,

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<v Speaker 7>Cole Johnson, molested her. She claims that her first husband,

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<v Speaker 7>Craig Bratcher, who she married at seventeen when she was pregnant,

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<v Speaker 7>that he raped her and abused her. Then she had

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<v Speaker 7>her twins, who are very predominant in the book. And

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<v Speaker 7>then she and Craig divorced. Then let's see, I start

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<v Speaker 7>getting her marriages mixed up, as she married a military

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<v Speaker 7>guy after that, and somewhere in there between the military

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<v Speaker 7>guy and the divorce from Craig, she says that Craig

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<v Speaker 7>raped her again and that she gave that child up

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<v Speaker 7>for adoption, which she did, truly did give a child

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<v Speaker 7>up for adoption. Then when she was with this Harold

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<v Speaker 7>wolf who was the I believe the number two husband

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<v Speaker 7>who was in the military, there are claims that she

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<v Speaker 7>went into another psychiatric facility or a psychiatric facility. There's

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<v Speaker 7>also hints that her mother had her like incarcerated when

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<v Speaker 7>she was in high school. At this point, Celeste was

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<v Speaker 7>getting known for sleeping with anyone and everyone who could

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<v Speaker 7>give her money and get her out of trouble. Because

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<v Speaker 7>when she married Harold Wolfe, she was living in Arizona

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<v Speaker 7>and she got in deep trouble with the law there

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<v Speaker 7>for insurance frauds, stealing from people, and developed a little

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<v Speaker 7>record there. She claims that she dated an attorney who

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<v Speaker 7>bought her new breast. Then she split with him when

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<v Speaker 7>she found out he was going to having an affair

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<v Speaker 7>with someone else, and she picked up in a bar

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<v Speaker 7>Jimmy Martinez, who I believe was her third husband. And

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<v Speaker 7>one day she was working in a restaurant and the

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<v Speaker 7>lid on an ice machine fell on her breast, and

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<v Speaker 7>then they sued the icemaker and the restaurant where she

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<v Speaker 7>worked because she supposedly had injured her implants. Now this

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<v Speaker 7>is sort of important because Slith had a thing about

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<v Speaker 7>her breast and they seemed to come up a lot

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<v Speaker 7>in the story. So even though her implants were fine,

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<v Speaker 7>she had one of them removed. So that then apparently

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<v Speaker 7>she had one saline and one gel implant, you know, silicon.

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<v Speaker 7>But then and so that the lawsuit was that because

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<v Speaker 7>of this, her husband, Jimmy Martinez, was deprived of her love,

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<v Speaker 7>shall we put it politely. They eventually moved to Texas

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<v Speaker 7>and she was working in a at the Austin Country

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<v Speaker 7>Club as a cocktail waitress or waitress. At this point,

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<v Speaker 7>she only had her daughter. Of her two twin daughters

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<v Speaker 7>that she'd had earlier, she only had Christina with her

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<v Speaker 7>because her other daughter, Jennifer, had stayed with Craig Bratcher

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<v Speaker 7>and she wanted Ennerfer back. Supposedly, and so allegedly Jimmy

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<v Speaker 7>was mistreating Christina, and Celeste wanted out of there, And

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<v Speaker 7>there happened to be a lonely, obese, alcoholic, seemingly alcoholic,

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<v Speaker 7>multi millionaire whose wife was dying from cancer, who frequented

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<v Speaker 7>the country club every night, and who befriended so she

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<v Speaker 7>when his wife died two weeks later, they started dating,

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<v Speaker 7>and that multimillionaire was Steve Beard. At this point, ce

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<v Speaker 7>is Celeste Martinez on her third marriage. She leaves Jimmy

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<v Speaker 7>Martinez to get together with Steve, and Steve gets both

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<v Speaker 7>of her children back. He gives her when they marry,

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<v Speaker 7>like a year, year and a half later, he gives

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<v Speaker 7>her a half million dollars and that's immediately gone. And

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<v Speaker 7>then a few years later he gives her enough half

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<v Speaker 7>million dollars that's immediately gone. Bottom line is, it doesn't

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<v Speaker 7>matter how much money he gives her, it's never enough.

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<v Speaker 7>So she wants the money bad, so she conspires. Am

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<v Speaker 7>I going too far?

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<v Speaker 6>Let's talk a little bit about the daughters as well,

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<v Speaker 6>because we have the real, you know, just a relationship

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<v Speaker 6>here because we're talking about Steve Beard and Big Daddy

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<v Speaker 6>and how is it that he that he comes to

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<v Speaker 6>his fortune, And really we didn't talk about his character

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<v Speaker 6>that much. He's an obese guy. He's sixty nine years

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<v Speaker 6>of age. She is less than half his age at

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<v Speaker 6>thirty or thirty two years of age, and like we're

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<v Speaker 6>talking about a three hundred pound guy. But we didn't

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<v Speaker 6>talk about bout the sort of the gruff character he is,

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<v Speaker 6>but the very very successful entertainment mogul that he ends

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<v Speaker 6>up being and respected guy in his field. So let's

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<v Speaker 6>talk a little bit more about Big Daddy and then

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<v Speaker 6>we'll talk about again as you mentioned that he gets

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<v Speaker 6>the other Jennifer to come into the home and Christine

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<v Speaker 6>and then we see this relationship early on this new dynamic,

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<v Speaker 6>and so we'll talk about that. So tell us a

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<v Speaker 6>little bit about Big Daddy, how he came to the

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<v Speaker 6>money that he does have, and we'll talk about the

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<v Speaker 6>family dynamic that.

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<v Speaker 7>When I think about Steve or Big Daddy, I think

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<v Speaker 7>about his daughter, Becky Beard, who I spent a lot

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<v Speaker 7>of time with and got to know. And Becky always

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<v Speaker 7>told me that Steve would have really liked me. And

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<v Speaker 7>I think of Becky as a reflection of Steve, because

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<v Speaker 7>she was a hard worker, and Steve was a hard worker.

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<v Speaker 7>He was a self made multi millionaire who traveled all

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<v Speaker 7>over the country and the radio business and the advertising business,

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<v Speaker 7>working like a dog, raising three kids, had a devoted wife.

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<v Speaker 7>This was all primarily in Dallas, Texas, and he just

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<v Speaker 7>moved up the ranks and radio and advertising till that

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<v Speaker 7>he was like the number two guy I think at

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<v Speaker 7>Blair Advertising. And then he decided that he wanted to

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<v Speaker 7>own a TV station and he moved to Austin, and

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<v Speaker 7>like say, he was already well respected in the world

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<v Speaker 7>of radio and advertising and opened up an independent station

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<v Speaker 7>that eventually became a Fox affiliate. But Fox was going

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<v Speaker 7>to yank the affiliation and they wanted to be a

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<v Speaker 7>CBS affiliate now again. Steve gruff, big guy, hard talking.

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<v Speaker 7>I mean, he could be a tad on the racist side,

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<v Speaker 7>he could be a tad on the the I don't know, harsh.

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<v Speaker 7>He was a hard talking guy. When he wanted something,

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<v Speaker 7>he went after it, and he did not, you know,

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<v Speaker 7>temper his language for anyone. But yet people loved him

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<v Speaker 7>because he worked so hard and he was so loyal

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<v Speaker 7>to the people that you know that were in his group,

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<v Speaker 7>and he was funny, and he was lively. He wanted

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<v Speaker 7>to live life to the ultimate and so you know,

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<v Speaker 7>he was he was kind of lost and devastated when

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<v Speaker 7>the TV station, like I said it was, they were

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<v Speaker 7>trying to become a CBS affiliate since they were losing

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<v Speaker 7>their Fox affiliation. And the CBS folks said, We're not

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<v Speaker 7>gonna do this to you. You have to sell your

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<v Speaker 7>station to this other company. Otherwise you're just add on

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<v Speaker 7>your own. So he reluctantly sold the station and got

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<v Speaker 7>millions and millions of dollars on this and that's where

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00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:18.480
<v Speaker 7>he became the multi millionaire guy, you know, who had

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00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:21.919
<v Speaker 7>time on his hands and started delving into real estate.

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<v Speaker 7>But the bottom line is the people who knew him

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<v Speaker 7>cherished him because he was so loyal and such a

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<v Speaker 7>hard worker, and I believe, from what I understand, very

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<v Speaker 7>honest in his business dealings.

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<v Speaker 6>Now, this guy larger than life. What we say we

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<v Speaker 6>talked about introducing the dynamic that went on, and also,

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<v Speaker 6>which is very important, that these young girls have boyfriends

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<v Speaker 6>Christopher Deuce and Justin Grimm. So let's first talk about

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<v Speaker 6>even before this, because we skip over the the marriage

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<v Speaker 6>and some of the bizarre stuff that goes on, and

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<v Speaker 6>more importantly, the difference for Becky because you say, well,

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<v Speaker 6>just as just a few weeks later after Steven's wife dies,

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<v Speaker 6>but also Becky's mother. So yeah, you talk about the

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00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:22.759
<v Speaker 6>surprise that Becky has in terms of the new housekeeper.

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<v Speaker 6>So tell us that little story, which is very demonstrative.

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<v Speaker 7>Oh gosh, yeah, it's poor Becky. She was obviously the

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<v Speaker 7>closest of the children. His eldest son, Steve, lived in Chicago.

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<v Speaker 7>His youngest son, Paul, was in the navy. Becky was

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<v Speaker 7>in Dallas, so she stayed more in touch with him,

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00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:52.559
<v Speaker 7>and so her mother died in October. Like I say,

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<v Speaker 7>two weeks later, Steve moves in with this woman, you know,

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00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:01.080
<v Speaker 7>and or moves in a woman. He dates her and

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00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:06.440
<v Speaker 7>starts moving her in, and Becky talking to her dad

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00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:09.000
<v Speaker 7>and she says, he says, oh, I'm going to hire

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<v Speaker 7>a housekeeper, And she thinks it's going to be some nice,

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00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:17.000
<v Speaker 7>elderly person. And she never expected to be a thirty

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00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:23.440
<v Speaker 7>something year old blonde bombshell, and she's just totally stunned.

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00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:25.759
<v Speaker 7>In fact, all of his friends are stunned, like what

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00:17:25.799 --> 00:17:29.759
<v Speaker 7>are you doing? And his friends are saying, what are

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00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:31.799
<v Speaker 7>you doing? And he said, hey, man, I don't want

250
00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:34.000
<v Speaker 7>anyone to think I'm gay, and they go, well, no

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00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:38.640
<v Speaker 7>one's going to thank you that. And when they ask

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00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:42.160
<v Speaker 7>why she was moving in, he would say, also, well

253
00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:46.400
<v Speaker 7>she's great at sex, and he and his wife hadn't

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00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:52.160
<v Speaker 7>been having sex for years. And so then the next thing,

255
00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:56.279
<v Speaker 7>you know, the Becky calls a few months later and

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00:17:56.400 --> 00:17:59.359
<v Speaker 7>this young girl answers the phone and Becky's like, who

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00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:02.079
<v Speaker 7>is this and she goes, well, this is Christina and

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00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:05.480
<v Speaker 7>she's like, well, who are you? And Celestie's on the

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00:18:05.480 --> 00:18:08.440
<v Speaker 7>phone and starts screaming at Becky, why are you? You know,

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00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:13.240
<v Speaker 7>yelling and questioning my daughter. And ever since Celeste came

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00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:17.240
<v Speaker 7>into her life, that's what would happened to Becky when

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00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:19.759
<v Speaker 7>she would talk to her dad. It always seemed to

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00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:22.160
<v Speaker 7>be like some big shocker coming up.

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<v Speaker 4>You know.

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<v Speaker 7>It's it's like he almost had this secret life and

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<v Speaker 7>she just he didn't come out ever and never say

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00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:34.480
<v Speaker 7>this is what's going on. It's just imagine because he

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<v Speaker 7>knew she wouldn't approve because she loved as all kids

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00:18:38.599 --> 00:18:42.759
<v Speaker 7>loved her mother, well I say all kids, Celestier didn't

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00:18:43.160 --> 00:18:43.799
<v Speaker 7>love her mother.

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<v Speaker 6>What was exactly was Big Daddy's health? What was the

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<v Speaker 6>some of the ailments he had other than being overweight.

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<v Speaker 6>He's a big man, so, but what were specifically how

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<v Speaker 6>how sick was this guy or how she was this guy.

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<v Speaker 7>When he met Celeste. Okay, he couldn't necessarily function sexually,

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00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:10.960
<v Speaker 7>he had asthma, he had to have a sleep apnea machine.

277
00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:15.279
<v Speaker 7>But in truth, he wasn't a man who got sick.

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00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:19.680
<v Speaker 7>He was you know, he was hid, blow and gun,

279
00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:22.640
<v Speaker 7>so to speak. You know, he was other than a

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00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:26.079
<v Speaker 7>few little ailments that were all under control, he was

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00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:30.160
<v Speaker 7>fine until he met Celeste. And then after he as

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00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:33.839
<v Speaker 7>Celeste move in, he started going to the hospital constantly

283
00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:41.480
<v Speaker 7>being rushed there, starflighted, you know, ambulance rides whatever, constantly

284
00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:42.480
<v Speaker 7>going to the hospital.

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00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:47.960
<v Speaker 6>And what was the dynamic with the two daughters and

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00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:52.359
<v Speaker 6>Big Daddy and Celeste? What was characterized Not to give

287
00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:55.119
<v Speaker 6>too much away too early here, but what was that

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00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:59.960
<v Speaker 6>dynamic like for everybody? According to we'll say the girl,

289
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:05.000
<v Speaker 6>their their perspective, What was it like this new experience

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00:20:05.079 --> 00:20:05.400
<v Speaker 6>for them?

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00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:10.240
<v Speaker 7>Well, Allegedly, Christina when she first met him couldn't stand

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00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:14.039
<v Speaker 7>him because he was this old, old, you know, obese guy,

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00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:18.559
<v Speaker 7>and she didn't want her mother with him. Allegedly, she

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00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:26.319
<v Speaker 7>grew to love him. Jennifer when she met him, and

295
00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:30.200
<v Speaker 7>she she did not really meet him until her father

296
00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:35.200
<v Speaker 7>committed suicide and she was just brought home, you know

297
00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:39.240
<v Speaker 7>when I say brought home, brought to Austin, and they

298
00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:43.079
<v Speaker 7>didn't like each other at first. I got the feeling

299
00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:51.079
<v Speaker 7>that Jennifer and Steve began or you know, developed a relationship.

300
00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:56.839
<v Speaker 7>What the truth is about Christina and Steve, I'm not sure.

301
00:20:57.160 --> 00:20:59.799
<v Speaker 7>And court she portrayed it is that they grew close

302
00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:04.119
<v Speaker 7>and that she was he was her dad because he

303
00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:10.000
<v Speaker 7>wanted to adopt them, and his attorney and other people

304
00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:12.920
<v Speaker 7>advised him not to because this was when they were

305
00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:15.359
<v Speaker 7>about fifteen. They were saying, look, they're going to turn

306
00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:19.160
<v Speaker 7>eighteen soon. Don't do that. And then he changed his

307
00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:24.359
<v Speaker 7>will and he said, I'm adopting them, and even if

308
00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:27.319
<v Speaker 7>the adoption is not completed by the time I die,

309
00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:31.599
<v Speaker 7>they're still supposed to be treated as my children. And

310
00:21:31.759 --> 00:21:36.119
<v Speaker 7>he totally embraced them and loved them and wanted to

311
00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:40.359
<v Speaker 7>be there for him. Even Becky grew to love them,

312
00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:44.160
<v Speaker 7>and that after Steve died and she got to know

313
00:21:44.200 --> 00:21:48.240
<v Speaker 7>the children, the twins. I don't know how it ended up,

314
00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:53.000
<v Speaker 7>but at one point she made the twins some of

315
00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:54.599
<v Speaker 7>the beneficiaries of her.

316
00:21:54.599 --> 00:22:01.839
<v Speaker 6>Will you tell the story of Steve Beard being admitted

317
00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:06.559
<v Speaker 6>into the hospital and at the same time as he's

318
00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:10.000
<v Speaker 6>rushed to emergency with something I guess you know, life threatening,

319
00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:13.960
<v Speaker 6>his wife is picking out her own birthday president. So

320
00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:15.960
<v Speaker 6>tell us the story of the car lot.

321
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:23.519
<v Speaker 7>Well, what is said to have happened is that Celeste

322
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:25.279
<v Speaker 7>would want to go out and party and do her

323
00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:31.160
<v Speaker 7>own thing. So Steve loved to drink cheap vodka, and

324
00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:34.400
<v Speaker 7>she would switch out his vodka with Everclear, which has

325
00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:37.319
<v Speaker 7>a higher proof, to knock him out. And then on

326
00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:40.480
<v Speaker 7>top of that, she would you know, slip him sleeping

327
00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:43.240
<v Speaker 7>pills so that he would then pass out and she

328
00:22:43.279 --> 00:22:46.480
<v Speaker 7>could go out and do what she wanted. One night

329
00:22:46.599 --> 00:22:47.680
<v Speaker 7>he passed.

330
00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:51.160
<v Speaker 4>Out Lucky Land Casino, asking people, what's the weirdest place

331
00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:52.480
<v Speaker 4>you've gotten Lucky.

332
00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:55.200
<v Speaker 8>Lucky in line at the Delhi I guess a hide

333
00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:56.440
<v Speaker 8>my dentist's office.

334
00:22:56.680 --> 00:22:59.359
<v Speaker 4>More than once actually do I have to say yes,

335
00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:02.359
<v Speaker 4>you do the car before my kid's PTA meeting?

336
00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:03.319
<v Speaker 3>Really? Yes?

337
00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:06.000
<v Speaker 4>Excuse me? What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky?

338
00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:07.200
<v Speaker 8>I never win?

339
00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:09.160
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340
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341
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<v Speaker 5>Has anyone seen the bride and groom?

347
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348
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<v Speaker 3>We were getting lucky in the limo and we lost

349
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350
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352
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356
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<v Speaker 7>Details, and they would find them all over the place

357
00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:54.079
<v Speaker 7>in the house, usually after he hit wet his pants

358
00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:58.519
<v Speaker 7>or something, and they just kept maneuvering around the house

359
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:03.759
<v Speaker 7>I think callie the emergency EMS or anything, even though

360
00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:10.759
<v Speaker 7>he was passed out. And so the next day, after

361
00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:12.599
<v Speaker 7>they put him to bed again, I think at like

362
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:14.960
<v Speaker 7>five o'clock in the morning, when he was found wandering

363
00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:18.160
<v Speaker 7>around in the house, she got up and said, let's

364
00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:22.400
<v Speaker 7>go buy me a Cadillac for my birthday. So they

365
00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:24.599
<v Speaker 7>went and picked out a Cadillac. She and the girls

366
00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:30.359
<v Speaker 7>came home. Steve was still passed out. So after buying

367
00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:33.240
<v Speaker 7>the Cadillac, and we're talking many many hours since you know,

368
00:24:33.319 --> 00:24:37.279
<v Speaker 7>he had gotten so ill, they called EMS got him

369
00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:41.480
<v Speaker 7>rushed to the hospital. She and the kids stood in

370
00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:44.880
<v Speaker 7>front of the Cadillac to kind of hide it so

371
00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:47.559
<v Speaker 7>that Steve wouldn't see it through his blurry eyes as

372
00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:52.039
<v Speaker 7>he was hauled out of the house. And then he

373
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:55.119
<v Speaker 7>got to the emergency room. He was already by then

374
00:24:55.240 --> 00:24:58.799
<v Speaker 7>coming out of the stupor and was doing okay and

375
00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:02.640
<v Speaker 7>stee so listed. Now I can't come pick him up

376
00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:05.039
<v Speaker 7>right now, I've got things to do. So she made

377
00:25:05.079 --> 00:25:07.400
<v Speaker 7>him wait a few hours, and then I believe she

378
00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:10.039
<v Speaker 7>went and picked him up in the Cadillac and said, oh,

379
00:25:10.119 --> 00:25:13.720
<v Speaker 7>by the way, you need to send a check to

380
00:25:13.799 --> 00:25:17.279
<v Speaker 7>the car dealership because I haven't paid for this, And

381
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:20.599
<v Speaker 7>she drove the Cadillac for a few weeks and decided

382
00:25:20.799 --> 00:25:23.880
<v Speaker 7>she didn't like it after all and gave it to

383
00:25:23.960 --> 00:25:28.400
<v Speaker 7>her daughters, who then proceeded to get so many speeding

384
00:25:28.440 --> 00:25:30.920
<v Speaker 7>tickets that Steve took the Cadillac away from them too,

385
00:25:32.759 --> 00:25:34.799
<v Speaker 7>But that was of the list.

386
00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:40.480
<v Speaker 6>Now included with this behavior, this successive behavior, and again

387
00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:47.079
<v Speaker 6>this very spoiled brat entitled behavior that she's exhibiting. She's

388
00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:51.720
<v Speaker 6>depressed as well. So tell us about how she becomes

389
00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:56.759
<v Speaker 6>to be in institutionalized and where she meets Tracy Charlton.

390
00:25:56.799 --> 00:26:00.839
<v Speaker 6>But how does it come that she is going into

391
00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:02.960
<v Speaker 6>a hospital of what are the conditions?

392
00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:08.960
<v Speaker 7>Well, there are like numerous explanations of this. One is

393
00:26:09.799 --> 00:26:13.680
<v Speaker 7>that she and Steve were fighting over money, and this

394
00:26:13.720 --> 00:26:16.640
<v Speaker 7>is the generally accepted one that they present in court

395
00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:20.119
<v Speaker 7>because he would realize how much money she was going

396
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:23.119
<v Speaker 7>through and said, you've got to stop this, and she

397
00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:27.200
<v Speaker 7>got upset and you know, threatened to kill herself. So

398
00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:32.119
<v Speaker 7>she was initutionalized. Another theory is that and this is

399
00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:37.119
<v Speaker 7>the one that Celess says, her mother and stepfather had

400
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:41.319
<v Speaker 7>moved to Texas and we're living I think in one

401
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:46.599
<v Speaker 7>of the Beard houses and seeing her mother brought back

402
00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:50.039
<v Speaker 7>all the bad memories of her childhood of being molested

403
00:26:50.079 --> 00:26:54.400
<v Speaker 7>and being raped, and that's what made her suicidal and

404
00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:58.400
<v Speaker 7>sent her to the hospital. So what the reality is

405
00:26:58.759 --> 00:27:01.279
<v Speaker 7>or if it was both? And there's also another a

406
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:04.400
<v Speaker 7>third reason that I am sorry that is just flipped

407
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:11.200
<v Speaker 7>out of my brain. But you know, the general consistency

408
00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:15.599
<v Speaker 7>consensus is that they were fighting over money and thee

409
00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:20.400
<v Speaker 7>last whenever she was arguing with Steve over money would

410
00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:23.559
<v Speaker 7>always this was a pattern in her life, say oh

411
00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:28.960
<v Speaker 7>I'm depressed and fake suicide or attempted suicide and then

412
00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:31.680
<v Speaker 7>go into a mental health facility where then he was

413
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:34.599
<v Speaker 7>would turn around and you know, be loving and caring

414
00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:39.039
<v Speaker 7>and trying to take care of his wife.

415
00:27:39.400 --> 00:27:42.119
<v Speaker 6>So she had a history of this, yes, as at

416
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:47.119
<v Speaker 6>least a threatening and yes, some people taking that threat seriously.

417
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:52.000
<v Speaker 6>So tell us about the occurrence of when she is

418
00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:57.759
<v Speaker 6>institutionalized and she meets Tracy Tarleton. Tell us about those circumstances.

419
00:27:58.599 --> 00:28:03.440
<v Speaker 7>Well. Tracy Charleton was a manager of book People Bookstore

420
00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:08.039
<v Speaker 7>in Austin, which is considered the largest most important independent

421
00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:11.960
<v Speaker 7>bookstore in Texas. It's a very high profile job, pretty

422
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:15.319
<v Speaker 7>powerful in the world of books. It's where you know,

423
00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:18.960
<v Speaker 7>if you're a number one New York Times bestseller or

424
00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:22.319
<v Speaker 7>a star like you know, that's where you go and

425
00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:26.480
<v Speaker 7>do your book signings. That's where Jimmy Carter does his signings,

426
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:30.880
<v Speaker 7>where Hillary Clinton does her signings. And because of this,

427
00:28:32.599 --> 00:28:37.200
<v Speaker 7>Tracy was always dealing with celebrity and was on c

428
00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:42.720
<v Speaker 7>Span a lot talking about books and authors. And she

429
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:46.400
<v Speaker 7>was also bipolar and an alcoholic and a drug addict.

430
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:51.759
<v Speaker 7>And she lost it and went to Saint David's Pavilion,

431
00:28:52.119 --> 00:28:55.519
<v Speaker 7>which is a psychiatric facility here in town, and that

432
00:28:55.759 --> 00:29:01.599
<v Speaker 7>is also where celest was institutionalized after her suicide attempt,

433
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:06.480
<v Speaker 7>and they became friends. As Celeste tells it, when you're

434
00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:09.519
<v Speaker 7>in a place like that, you have no family around,

435
00:29:09.559 --> 00:29:12.839
<v Speaker 7>you don't know anyone, so you tried to bond with someone.

436
00:29:13.480 --> 00:29:16.720
<v Speaker 7>And according to Celeste, it was her daughter Christina who

437
00:29:17.319 --> 00:29:20.599
<v Speaker 7>saw Tracy Charlton looked at her and just felt so

438
00:29:20.839 --> 00:29:24.160
<v Speaker 7>sorry for this woman who just looked totally, you know,

439
00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:28.599
<v Speaker 7>spaced out and depressed and at this point drugged out

440
00:29:28.640 --> 00:29:33.160
<v Speaker 7>on psychiatric meds, and encouraged her mother to befriend her

441
00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:36.920
<v Speaker 7>and so they became friends there in the psychiatric facility.

442
00:29:39.480 --> 00:29:44.079
<v Speaker 6>Was there any history, because I I know this answer,

443
00:29:44.119 --> 00:29:46.680
<v Speaker 6>but was there any history that you saw that there

444
00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:52.799
<v Speaker 6>was any blatant or bisexuality or any history of Celeste

445
00:29:52.839 --> 00:29:57.440
<v Speaker 6>with other women? And then tell us, you know, we

446
00:29:57.480 --> 00:30:00.000
<v Speaker 6>talked about the blonde bombshell that was thirty two years old,

447
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:05.480
<v Speaker 6>the breast implants. So tell us what was Tracy Tarlton's appearance,

448
00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:07.319
<v Speaker 6>just for a visual.

449
00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:11.480
<v Speaker 7>The Tracy's about five to seven, a little on the

450
00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:17.559
<v Speaker 7>chunky side. She she's a tomboy, always has been.

451
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:18.759
<v Speaker 8>Uh.

452
00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:20.880
<v Speaker 7>I refer to her as sort of carrying her, carrying

453
00:30:20.920 --> 00:30:25.000
<v Speaker 7>herself like a linebacker a lot of times with dress

454
00:30:25.119 --> 00:30:30.759
<v Speaker 7>and you know, plaid shirts and dot Martin's Uh wore glasses.

455
00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:35.880
<v Speaker 7>Had a wonderful smile though. But she she is the

456
00:30:35.920 --> 00:30:38.240
<v Speaker 7>type that and I hate to be this cliche, but

457
00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:40.319
<v Speaker 7>if she's walking down the street, you would not be

458
00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:44.720
<v Speaker 7>surprised that she was a lesbian. Whereas Celeste is usually

459
00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:49.960
<v Speaker 7>decked out in gold jewelry, an updo, painted fingernails, uh,

460
00:30:50.119 --> 00:30:54.319
<v Speaker 7>Saint John clothes, you know, or chanel or something. You know,

461
00:30:54.400 --> 00:30:57.680
<v Speaker 7>she's gonna have the gold jewelry all over her, and

462
00:30:57.680 --> 00:31:01.319
<v Speaker 7>and Tracy's just trouncing down the street being a you know,

463
00:31:01.559 --> 00:31:07.599
<v Speaker 7>normal human being. And were you hinting about whether Celeste

464
00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:09.559
<v Speaker 7>had ever been bisexual or whatever?

465
00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:15.839
<v Speaker 6>Well, just about that. It's not something that's very evident,

466
00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:19.079
<v Speaker 6>you know, from people that would just encounter or meet her.

467
00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:22.559
<v Speaker 6>So what did you find? And and uh, yeah, what

468
00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:23.119
<v Speaker 6>did you find?

469
00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:26.480
<v Speaker 7>Well, I mean, I I there is no way that

470
00:31:26.599 --> 00:31:30.440
<v Speaker 7>I believe Celeste Martinez, or Celeste Johnson or Celeste Beard

471
00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:33.920
<v Speaker 7>bless Bratcher, There's no way I believe that she had

472
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:36.519
<v Speaker 7>that Tracy Tarlton was the first person she had ever

473
00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:40.039
<v Speaker 7>had lesbian sex with. Now, whether it was to like

474
00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:43.359
<v Speaker 7>flirt with someone, you know, with hey I'll kiss this girl,

475
00:31:43.480 --> 00:31:46.720
<v Speaker 7>to turn on these other guys or whatever, you know.

476
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:49.319
<v Speaker 7>But but she would claim that she had never had

477
00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:52.039
<v Speaker 7>lesbian sex, and she may even say that to this day.

478
00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:59.200
<v Speaker 7>But according to Tracy, Celeste was flirting with her and

479
00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:02.440
<v Speaker 7>sexually attract the tour from you know, the moment they met.

480
00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:04.279
<v Speaker 7>It's St. David's pavilion.

481
00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:10.279
<v Speaker 6>You write in the book that the people that were

482
00:32:10.359 --> 00:32:15.039
<v Speaker 6>monitoring them in Saint David's they were reports of them

483
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:22.000
<v Speaker 6>in inappropriate behavior and they were criticized for that a

484
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:24.119
<v Speaker 6>couple of times. So those were in the reports, weren't they.

485
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:28.000
<v Speaker 7>That may have been more like when they went to Timberlawn,

486
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:31.400
<v Speaker 7>And I may be mistaken on that also, but they

487
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:35.720
<v Speaker 7>eventually went to another psychiatric facility up in Dallas where

488
00:32:35.720 --> 00:32:40.079
<v Speaker 7>they were roommates, and they got caught and compromising positions

489
00:32:40.119 --> 00:32:44.240
<v Speaker 7>several times. And yes it was, it was written up,

490
00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:47.880
<v Speaker 7>but Celeste would always you know, deny it that and say, oh,

491
00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:51.480
<v Speaker 7>Tracy's after me. I'm happily married. No, no, no, you know,

492
00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:55.599
<v Speaker 7>I don't want this. But yet they were meeting in

493
00:32:55.680 --> 00:33:00.160
<v Speaker 7>hotel rooms, like while Celeste was still in there and

494
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:04.160
<v Speaker 7>Tracy was out patient, and then when Tracy got out,

495
00:33:04.279 --> 00:33:07.000
<v Speaker 7>I mean when Celeste got out and Tracy was still

496
00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:10.839
<v Speaker 7>doing outpatient up there. When I say up there in Dallas,

497
00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:14.960
<v Speaker 7>I mean every time I drive through Waco, Texas, I

498
00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:20.519
<v Speaker 7>look at the Lakita Hotel or motel that's right next

499
00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:23.079
<v Speaker 7>to Baylor University, and I always have to point out

500
00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:26.119
<v Speaker 7>that's where Celeste and Tracy would meet, you know, on

501
00:33:26.240 --> 00:33:29.079
<v Speaker 7>weekends when they were supposed to be in Dallas at

502
00:33:29.119 --> 00:33:32.000
<v Speaker 7>timber Lawn or in Austin or something, and they were

503
00:33:32.039 --> 00:33:36.440
<v Speaker 7>hooking up there right by Baylor University, which is you know,

504
00:33:36.839 --> 00:33:39.160
<v Speaker 7>then it's my schools where I went to college, but

505
00:33:39.319 --> 00:33:42.240
<v Speaker 7>it's also a Southern Baptist university, So I always get

506
00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:43.359
<v Speaker 7>kind of a giggle out of that.

507
00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:50.000
<v Speaker 6>Right now, with Tracy Charlton, she's got this high pressure job,

508
00:33:50.240 --> 00:33:54.640
<v Speaker 6>she's responsible for a lot of people, and she has

509
00:33:54.680 --> 00:33:58.279
<v Speaker 6>a certain character. What was she prone to in terms

510
00:33:58.359 --> 00:34:03.799
<v Speaker 6>of was there any indication of any violent behavior on

511
00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:07.599
<v Speaker 6>her part at any point in the management of this bookstore?

512
00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:11.480
<v Speaker 7>A You know, I used to have a lot of

513
00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:15.880
<v Speaker 7>friends who work there, and they would talk about Tracy

514
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:19.800
<v Speaker 7>blowing up. You know that she would she had a

515
00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:23.440
<v Speaker 7>hair trigger temper and she would just flip out on people.

516
00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:28.760
<v Speaker 7>But I also know that Tracy was incredible at her job,

517
00:34:29.639 --> 00:34:33.880
<v Speaker 7>just from my experience as a writer an author who

518
00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:39.440
<v Speaker 7>you know, has done book signings there. I Tracy was

519
00:34:39.440 --> 00:34:44.599
<v Speaker 7>one of the best managers that they've ever had. And so, yes,

520
00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:49.400
<v Speaker 7>she got difficult where she couldn't necessarily do her job

521
00:34:49.480 --> 00:34:53.639
<v Speaker 7>because she was flipping out on people. And then once

522
00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:56.880
<v Speaker 7>she was hospitalized and tried to come back and Celeste

523
00:34:56.960 --> 00:35:01.679
<v Speaker 7>was in her life, she would be, you know, drugged out,

524
00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:05.800
<v Speaker 7>on psychiatric meds, so that she was like one of

525
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:09.400
<v Speaker 7>the first times that the book People's staff met Celeste

526
00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:13.159
<v Speaker 7>was when they she and Tracy came in together, and

527
00:35:13.280 --> 00:35:16.079
<v Speaker 7>some of the book people employees thought Celeste was her

528
00:35:16.159 --> 00:35:20.039
<v Speaker 7>handler or something, because Tracy was slurring her words so

529
00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:25.000
<v Speaker 7>and glazed over, and they try, you know, immediately began

530
00:35:25.159 --> 00:35:29.840
<v Speaker 7>to rush her upstairs to the offices so that she

531
00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:34.360
<v Speaker 7>wouldn't scare away customers. But then she, you know, eventually

532
00:35:34.360 --> 00:35:39.599
<v Speaker 7>got functional at her job again, until things got worse

533
00:35:39.639 --> 00:35:42.480
<v Speaker 7>and worse and worse, you know, after Steve was shot.

534
00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:49.119
<v Speaker 6>Let's talk about just before we talk about the shooting itself,

535
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:53.960
<v Speaker 6>let's talk about briefly Justin Grimm and Krista reduced, just

536
00:35:54.760 --> 00:35:58.440
<v Speaker 6>because it's very important that these people are around very

537
00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:00.440
<v Speaker 6>often in the home. So tell us where one of

538
00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:03.719
<v Speaker 6>the boyfriends, I think it's Justin, I'm not correct, is

539
00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:07.199
<v Speaker 6>more prone to be there all the time. We're regularly

540
00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:10.320
<v Speaker 6>staying over at the house before we talk about why

541
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:13.159
<v Speaker 6>that's important. So talk about Christopher Duce and Justin Grimm.

542
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:19.840
<v Speaker 7>Well, Jennifer and Christina each had a boyfriend. Jennifer at

543
00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:23.800
<v Speaker 7>that point was dating Christopher Doci, who was a very,

544
00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:27.920
<v Speaker 7>very very wealthy young man. And when I'm saying young man,

545
00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:33.079
<v Speaker 7>I'm talking we're talking like eighteen nineteen year olds. Christopher

546
00:36:33.079 --> 00:36:34.880
<v Speaker 7>may have been a little bit older where he was,

547
00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:38.800
<v Speaker 7>maybe twenty twenty one or something. But Christopher was a

548
00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:42.760
<v Speaker 7>kid who had everything you could ever dream like. He

549
00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:47.320
<v Speaker 7>would talk about five hundred thousand being a small amount

550
00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:52.000
<v Speaker 7>of money, and he was around quite a bit. And

551
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:55.480
<v Speaker 7>he and Steve he got along. They loved each other

552
00:36:56.480 --> 00:37:00.000
<v Speaker 7>and respected each other. And then there was Justin Grimm,

553
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:05.280
<v Speaker 7>who was Christina's boyfriend, a tall, slim, dark haired guy

554
00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:10.800
<v Speaker 7>that I basically consider a nerd. He had big dreams,

555
00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:13.639
<v Speaker 7>but I'm not sure he had the brain power to

556
00:37:13.719 --> 00:37:19.519
<v Speaker 7>accomplish everything. But he was, and that's probably an overstatement

557
00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:23.880
<v Speaker 7>on my part, but he had sort of a high

558
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:29.559
<v Speaker 7>tech mind. He was considered the codemeister and that I've

559
00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:32.119
<v Speaker 7>got your code, I know your code. That he knew

560
00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:36.159
<v Speaker 7>the codes to everybody, and a lot of people considered

561
00:37:36.519 --> 00:37:42.000
<v Speaker 7>that after Steve died, that Justin controlled the kids and Celeste,

562
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:44.920
<v Speaker 7>that he was considered himself the man of the house

563
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:50.960
<v Speaker 7>and he was there often. They were basically Christina and

564
00:37:51.159 --> 00:37:57.159
<v Speaker 7>Justin were inseparable, and Celeste would kind of comes and goes.

565
00:37:57.400 --> 00:38:00.599
<v Speaker 7>Her notes indicated that she really liked Justin, but now

566
00:38:00.679 --> 00:38:04.239
<v Speaker 7>she refers to him in horrible terms and how she

567
00:38:04.280 --> 00:38:06.679
<v Speaker 7>couldn't stand him in what a horrible person he is,

568
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:11.519
<v Speaker 7>but she leaned on him to take care of things

569
00:38:11.559 --> 00:38:15.840
<v Speaker 7>and he was kind of the responsible person. When she

570
00:38:16.199 --> 00:38:22.519
<v Speaker 7>celested through a graduation party for the twins, Jennifer was

571
00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:26.239
<v Speaker 7>there partying with her boyfriend and they were getting drunk.

572
00:38:26.960 --> 00:38:30.360
<v Speaker 7>Justin and Christina weren't at the party because they were

573
00:38:30.440 --> 00:38:34.159
<v Speaker 7>running shuttle service for you know, being the sober drivers

574
00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:38.880
<v Speaker 7>for everyone. So he took on a lot of responsibility

575
00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:39.800
<v Speaker 7>in the family.

576
00:38:42.519 --> 00:38:46.199
<v Speaker 6>So let's talk about the day in question, what everybody

577
00:38:46.280 --> 00:38:48.679
<v Speaker 6>was doing, and what happens.

578
00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:54.440
<v Speaker 7>What happened when Steve was shot with a shotgun blast

579
00:38:54.519 --> 00:39:01.280
<v Speaker 7>to his belly. They were Steve and to Lest on

580
00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:07.400
<v Speaker 7>October second, nineteen ninety nine or thereabouts, were supposed to

581
00:39:07.719 --> 00:39:10.800
<v Speaker 7>leave on a long trip for Europe, I think a

582
00:39:10.840 --> 00:39:15.199
<v Speaker 7>three week trip to Europe, and the night before or

583
00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:19.559
<v Speaker 7>a few nights before, she wasn't packing, and Justin said,

584
00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:22.239
<v Speaker 7>Lest why aren't you packing? Do you need some help?

585
00:39:23.880 --> 00:39:28.920
<v Speaker 7>And she just wouldn't do it, and she also made

586
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:34.000
<v Speaker 7>sure that that night, or October first, which was a

587
00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:40.480
<v Speaker 7>Friday night, she insisted that Jennifer and Jennifer's boyfriend and

588
00:39:40.639 --> 00:39:45.000
<v Speaker 7>their friend Amy Cozart all went out to the Lake

589
00:39:45.079 --> 00:39:49.639
<v Speaker 7>House and took Steve's dog, Meghan with them, and Megan

590
00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:55.199
<v Speaker 7>never left Steve's side and Justin often spent the night

591
00:39:55.960 --> 00:40:00.920
<v Speaker 7>at the Beard House, and that night she said Justin

592
00:40:01.239 --> 00:40:05.760
<v Speaker 7>couldn't spend the night and Christina had to be home

593
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:12.360
<v Speaker 7>by midnight that day. Earlier in the day, she met

594
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:16.079
<v Speaker 7>with Tracy because they were planning for Tracy to kill

595
00:40:16.119 --> 00:40:20.880
<v Speaker 7>Steve on the early the wee hours of October second.

596
00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:25.760
<v Speaker 7>So Tracy came over to the house and they did

597
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:29.280
<v Speaker 7>a walk through with Celeste saying this is where I

598
00:40:29.320 --> 00:40:31.519
<v Speaker 7>want you to enter, this is what I want you

599
00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:36.960
<v Speaker 7>to do, and let her through the entire thing. Then

600
00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:40.400
<v Speaker 7>later on in the day, Celeste changed it up and said, no,

601
00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:42.119
<v Speaker 7>we're not going to do it this way. We're going

602
00:40:42.199 --> 00:40:46.280
<v Speaker 7>to do it another way. Tracy was very very nervous

603
00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:51.920
<v Speaker 7>about that. So the kids went out and when I

604
00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:54.880
<v Speaker 7>say the kids, I'm talking Christina, her boyfriend and their friend,

605
00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:57.920
<v Speaker 7>Damy Cozart, and the dog went out to the lake

606
00:40:57.960 --> 00:41:04.039
<v Speaker 7>house at some point. The time is debatable, but around

607
00:41:04.119 --> 00:41:08.519
<v Speaker 7>ten eleven thirty somewhere like that, Celeste went out to

608
00:41:08.559 --> 00:41:15.000
<v Speaker 7>the lake house, eventually got back home and got to

609
00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:18.719
<v Speaker 7>you know, said hi to Christina. Again, that's debatable. Some

610
00:41:18.760 --> 00:41:23.400
<v Speaker 7>stories say that Christina and Celeste saw each other that night.

611
00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:26.320
<v Speaker 7>Anothers say no, they didn't until after Steve was shot.

612
00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:31.039
<v Speaker 7>But the bottom line is that Christina and Celeste were

613
00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:36.159
<v Speaker 7>there in Christina's wing of the house, Steve was over

614
00:41:36.199 --> 00:41:42.239
<v Speaker 7>in another wing, and about two three in the morning

615
00:41:43.280 --> 00:41:46.760
<v Speaker 7>they were awakened by flashing lights and the police in

616
00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:52.519
<v Speaker 7>the house. Because Steve had been blasted in the stomach.

617
00:41:52.679 --> 00:41:55.679
<v Speaker 7>He didn't know how, He just know that. His phrase was,

618
00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:59.280
<v Speaker 7>my gut jumped out of my stomach. And when he

619
00:41:59.360 --> 00:42:03.599
<v Speaker 7>called nine, and the nine to one to one operator was,

620
00:42:03.880 --> 00:42:06.599
<v Speaker 7>you know, legitimately saying what are you talking about? What

621
00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:09.239
<v Speaker 7>are you talking about? How could that happen? He says,

622
00:42:09.320 --> 00:42:11.920
<v Speaker 7>I don't know. I just woke up and my guts

623
00:42:11.960 --> 00:42:15.760
<v Speaker 7>were out of my stomach. And the bottom line is

624
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:21.639
<v Speaker 7>that in the middle of the night, Tracy had put

625
00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:25.760
<v Speaker 7>plastic over her car seats and in the floorboard, got

626
00:42:25.880 --> 00:42:29.880
<v Speaker 7>dressed got her shotgun that had her name etched in it,

627
00:42:31.480 --> 00:42:35.440
<v Speaker 7>come over to the house, backed in quietly. I remember

628
00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:39.760
<v Speaker 7>her talking about how the gravel crunched under her tires

629
00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:41.920
<v Speaker 7>and how when she got out of the door, out

630
00:42:41.920 --> 00:42:44.480
<v Speaker 7>of the car, she just closed the door with a

631
00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:48.280
<v Speaker 7>slight click, tried not to make any noise, sneaked in

632
00:42:48.320 --> 00:42:53.199
<v Speaker 7>around the house, walked in, held her dun face, you know,

633
00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:56.719
<v Speaker 7>at Steve's stomach, and she had told Celiste, if I

634
00:42:56.760 --> 00:42:59.039
<v Speaker 7>shoot him in the stomach, he's not going to die.

635
00:42:59.159 --> 00:43:02.199
<v Speaker 7>And Celis said, oh yes, oh yes, And she said

636
00:43:02.199 --> 00:43:05.079
<v Speaker 7>what about the shotgun shell, because she used a shotgun,

637
00:43:06.119 --> 00:43:08.440
<v Speaker 7>and Celeste said, don't worry, you know, pick it up,

638
00:43:08.480 --> 00:43:10.880
<v Speaker 7>and if you don't, I'll pick it up. And she

639
00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:13.880
<v Speaker 7>blasted Steve out of this in the stomach, couldn't find

640
00:43:13.880 --> 00:43:20.000
<v Speaker 7>the shotgun shell, and got out of there and ends up.

641
00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:23.840
<v Speaker 7>Celeste didn't go to the room, didn't pick up the

642
00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:28.559
<v Speaker 7>shotgun shell, but the police found it and the next day,

643
00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:30.639
<v Speaker 7>or I say I say the next day. It was

644
00:43:30.679 --> 00:43:34.679
<v Speaker 7>actually a few hours later. Tracy was you know, picked

645
00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:39.039
<v Speaker 7>up for questioning with her shotgun and taken in and

646
00:43:39.960 --> 00:43:41.199
<v Speaker 7>was soon arrested.

647
00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:47.239
<v Speaker 6>How did the police arrive at that conclusion so quickly

648
00:43:48.039 --> 00:43:50.280
<v Speaker 6>with just that shotgun shell. Well how did they get

649
00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:52.400
<v Speaker 6>to Tracy Tarlton that idea so quickly?

650
00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:57.320
<v Speaker 7>Well, when they went to the hospital after, you know,

651
00:43:57.400 --> 00:44:01.039
<v Speaker 7>Steve was airlifted to the hospital and all the kids

652
00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:04.960
<v Speaker 7>went there. The kids out at the lake house got

653
00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:08.360
<v Speaker 7>a phone call, get here, you know, Steve's been shot.

654
00:44:09.199 --> 00:44:14.599
<v Speaker 7>They all gather, supposedly felicious, don't mention Tracy Tarlton to anyone,

655
00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:19.679
<v Speaker 7>but the cops are sitting there. He's sitting on the

656
00:44:19.719 --> 00:44:22.559
<v Speaker 7>floor trying to get the kids relaxed and talk to

657
00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:25.960
<v Speaker 7>them and just saying, you know, hey, come on, tell

658
00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:28.239
<v Speaker 7>me what happened. And they're like, well, we don't know

659
00:44:28.239 --> 00:44:30.360
<v Speaker 7>who this could have done. And he's said, come on,

660
00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:31.440
<v Speaker 7>this is not a strain.

661
00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:35.039
<v Speaker 4>Lucky Land Casino asking people, what's the weirdest place you've

662
00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:35.760
<v Speaker 4>gotten lucky?

663
00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:38.679
<v Speaker 8>Lucky in line at the Delhi I guess I hid

664
00:44:38.719 --> 00:44:40.920
<v Speaker 8>in my dentist's office more than months.

665
00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:42.559
<v Speaker 1>Actually, do I have to say?

666
00:44:42.760 --> 00:44:42.960
<v Speaker 3>Yes?

667
00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:46.920
<v Speaker 4>You do in the car before my kid's pta meeting. Really, yes,

668
00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:49.599
<v Speaker 4>excuse me? What's the weirdest place you've gotten Lucky?

669
00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:50.920
<v Speaker 8>I never went in?

670
00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:53.039
<v Speaker 4>Tell well, there you have it, you could get lucky

671
00:44:53.079 --> 00:44:56.239
<v Speaker 4>anywhere playing at lucky Landsloughts dot com play for free

672
00:44:56.320 --> 00:44:59.000
<v Speaker 4>right now? Are you feeling lucky? Noe' just necessary voye

673
00:44:59.159 --> 00:45:00.000
<v Speaker 4>can my long eighteen plus?

674
00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:02.719
<v Speaker 7>You're kind of thing.

675
00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:03.119
<v Speaker 3>You know?

676
00:45:03.239 --> 00:45:06.960
<v Speaker 7>Who did This's somebody you know who would have done this.

677
00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:10.960
<v Speaker 7>And one of the boys said that crazy Tracy Charleton,

678
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:16.239
<v Speaker 7>And they're like, who's Tracy Charleton? And they start filling

679
00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:22.400
<v Speaker 7>him in, and so eventually they go And when I

680
00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:25.719
<v Speaker 7>say she was arrested immediately, it really wasn't. But she

681
00:45:25.880 --> 00:45:28.719
<v Speaker 7>was brought in for questioning that day because they went

682
00:45:28.760 --> 00:45:31.760
<v Speaker 7>and did some checks on Tracy saw that she had

683
00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:35.880
<v Speaker 7>been arrested previously for drunk driving and everything. So they

684
00:45:35.960 --> 00:45:38.159
<v Speaker 7>went over to the house and asked if she had

685
00:45:38.199 --> 00:45:42.639
<v Speaker 7>a shotgun. She said yes, reluctantly, she gave it to them.

686
00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:46.000
<v Speaker 7>They took her in, took the shotgun in and it

687
00:45:46.079 --> 00:45:49.880
<v Speaker 7>was Tracy's, you know, tested for ballistics and it matched

688
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:54.719
<v Speaker 7>the shotgun shell at the crime and all along Tracy

689
00:45:54.800 --> 00:45:56.159
<v Speaker 7>denied that she had done this.

690
00:45:59.480 --> 00:46:04.800
<v Speaker 6>Now did the two daughters know about the relationship that

691
00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:08.360
<v Speaker 6>Tracy had with their mother and what kind of evidence

692
00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:11.159
<v Speaker 6>gave them that kind of idea. They did get that

693
00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:12.920
<v Speaker 6>idea well.

694
00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:17.920
<v Speaker 7>Christina says that she saw her mother and Celeste kissing

695
00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:25.639
<v Speaker 7>on several occasions, and they would talk about that. Celeste

696
00:46:25.639 --> 00:46:29.519
<v Speaker 7>would spend the night over there sometimes, and I think

697
00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:32.280
<v Speaker 7>there was a part of them that wanted to deny it,

698
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:35.599
<v Speaker 7>and then there was a part of them that knew it,

699
00:46:37.480 --> 00:46:43.280
<v Speaker 7>and so yeah, they knew. I don't think they went

700
00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:46.639
<v Speaker 7>around announcing it, but it was something that was kind

701
00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:51.760
<v Speaker 7>of hard to deny because Tracy was obviously in love

702
00:46:51.800 --> 00:46:58.400
<v Speaker 7>with Celeste, and Celeste obviously encouraged it. One of the

703
00:46:58.480 --> 00:47:02.159
<v Speaker 7>things that the talks about is what they call the

704
00:47:02.239 --> 00:47:07.159
<v Speaker 7>Fashion Victims Party, which was a party Tracy threw for

705
00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:11.760
<v Speaker 7>her you know, coworkers at book People, and it was

706
00:47:11.800 --> 00:47:15.280
<v Speaker 7>out at the Beard Lake House, and celest was the

707
00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:17.519
<v Speaker 7>one who came up with the idea and the theme

708
00:47:17.599 --> 00:47:22.519
<v Speaker 7>for the party and the food. And there were pictures

709
00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:28.199
<v Speaker 7>of Tracy and Celeste, you know, sitting in each other's lap.

710
00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:32.559
<v Speaker 7>There were people talked about how they acted like a couple.

711
00:47:32.639 --> 00:47:36.320
<v Speaker 7>They were holding hands, they kissed, the couple talked about

712
00:47:36.679 --> 00:47:39.760
<v Speaker 7>walking in on Tracy and Celeste and they were in

713
00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:42.840
<v Speaker 7>a middle of a passionate kiss and it embarrassed the

714
00:47:42.880 --> 00:47:45.719
<v Speaker 7>people who walked in on them. So there was there

715
00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:49.000
<v Speaker 7>was just evidence all over the place, even though Celeste

716
00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:51.719
<v Speaker 7>constantly denies that they were ever lovers.

717
00:47:54.639 --> 00:47:58.360
<v Speaker 6>So let's talk about the shooting itself and his hospital

718
00:47:58.400 --> 00:48:02.599
<v Speaker 6>and Steve's hospitalization. Let's talk about that incident itself.

719
00:48:05.360 --> 00:48:08.679
<v Speaker 7>Well, he was, like I say, rushed to the hospital.

720
00:48:09.760 --> 00:48:12.559
<v Speaker 7>He had like a fifty to fifty chance of living.

721
00:48:13.840 --> 00:48:17.239
<v Speaker 7>Steve told his friends that the doctor said the reason

722
00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:19.960
<v Speaker 7>he lived was because he had he was so fat.

723
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:23.079
<v Speaker 7>There was so much patting that you know, it took

724
00:48:23.119 --> 00:48:26.480
<v Speaker 7>a while for everything to get to him. And this

725
00:48:26.760 --> 00:48:31.000
<v Speaker 7>just shows what a fighter he was. That he survived

726
00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:35.199
<v Speaker 7>like six seven surgeries, I believe, and a long time

727
00:48:35.239 --> 00:48:38.880
<v Speaker 7>in the hospital and he wanted to be around his

728
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:41.920
<v Speaker 7>friends and talk to him, and Celeste would not let anyone,

729
00:48:41.960 --> 00:48:46.199
<v Speaker 7>including the police, talk to him. And he was in

730
00:48:46.239 --> 00:48:50.599
<v Speaker 7>the hospital from let's see October, November and December and

731
00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:55.159
<v Speaker 7>a little bit of January, and then he was finally

732
00:48:55.599 --> 00:49:02.639
<v Speaker 7>released to come home, and Celeste made sure that his

733
00:49:02.840 --> 00:49:05.440
<v Speaker 7>time at home was very brief. He was only there

734
00:49:05.480 --> 00:49:07.519
<v Speaker 7>for two or three days before he was back in

735
00:49:07.559 --> 00:49:12.800
<v Speaker 7>the hospital and died. That's the real formation of it.

736
00:49:14.239 --> 00:49:15.840
<v Speaker 6>Yes, that was quick.

737
00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:19.440
<v Speaker 7>We uh, you can drag it out.

738
00:49:19.480 --> 00:49:21.719
<v Speaker 6>I want to talk about is the I wanted to

739
00:49:21.719 --> 00:49:24.320
<v Speaker 6>ask this question, and I'm sure the audience would would

740
00:49:24.360 --> 00:49:28.960
<v Speaker 6>ask this as well. Was he familiar with Tracy Tarleton

741
00:49:29.159 --> 00:49:32.239
<v Speaker 6>and the relationship that she had with his wife? And

742
00:49:32.280 --> 00:49:34.679
<v Speaker 6>did he or did he know of Tracy at all?

743
00:49:35.559 --> 00:49:39.559
<v Speaker 6>And then let's talk about you mentioned it that Celeste

744
00:49:39.719 --> 00:49:43.039
<v Speaker 6>stopped everybody from communicating with her husband, including the police.

745
00:49:43.760 --> 00:49:47.480
<v Speaker 6>So what was the police again their their attempt to

746
00:49:47.519 --> 00:49:50.199
<v Speaker 6>be able to question him about Tracy Tarleton.

747
00:49:51.159 --> 00:49:53.000
<v Speaker 7>Well, well, let me go back to the first part

748
00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:58.440
<v Speaker 7>of the question. First, Steve did know about Tracy. He

749
00:49:58.519 --> 00:50:03.239
<v Speaker 7>just didn't know that they were lovers. He had invited

750
00:50:03.280 --> 00:50:09.079
<v Speaker 7>her to the high school graduation for the kids. He

751
00:50:09.559 --> 00:50:12.679
<v Speaker 7>had thanked Tracy at points, saying thank you for being

752
00:50:12.719 --> 00:50:15.679
<v Speaker 7>such a good friend to my wife. But then he

753
00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:19.360
<v Speaker 7>also had suspicions because Trey is celest I think would

754
00:50:19.360 --> 00:50:22.880
<v Speaker 7>showing cards where Tracy would write how much she loves

755
00:50:22.880 --> 00:50:26.360
<v Speaker 7>Celeste and Steve like, what are you a lesbian? And

756
00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:31.159
<v Speaker 7>she says, no, Tracy is. But you know it's nothing,

757
00:50:31.440 --> 00:50:36.199
<v Speaker 7>and you know, supposedly he saw one of the kisses

758
00:50:36.280 --> 00:50:38.960
<v Speaker 7>and said get out of the house, don't ever come back.

759
00:50:39.039 --> 00:50:42.639
<v Speaker 7>But other people deny that. But yes, he was. He

760
00:50:42.719 --> 00:50:45.679
<v Speaker 7>knew Tracy was in her life, he knew she was

761
00:50:45.679 --> 00:50:50.320
<v Speaker 7>a lesbian. He was concerned about the relationship. I don't

762
00:50:50.360 --> 00:50:53.039
<v Speaker 7>know that he knew how far it was. But yet

763
00:50:53.079 --> 00:50:57.360
<v Speaker 7>he also paid the bills where he saw that Celeste

764
00:50:57.400 --> 00:51:00.320
<v Speaker 7>was racking up big bills at some of the gay

765
00:51:00.320 --> 00:51:07.639
<v Speaker 7>bars in town. He wondered about why Celeste would say

766
00:51:07.760 --> 00:51:11.400
<v Speaker 7>she was one place when she wasn't there, so he

767
00:51:11.519 --> 00:51:13.400
<v Speaker 7>kind of And the other thing to know is that

768
00:51:13.480 --> 00:51:16.440
<v Speaker 7>while Tracey, I mean Celeste was having an affair with Tracy,

769
00:51:17.039 --> 00:51:22.519
<v Speaker 7>she was also having an affair with her ex husband

770
00:51:22.599 --> 00:51:25.840
<v Speaker 7>Jimmy Martinez. Which now that makes me remember the third

771
00:51:25.880 --> 00:51:28.760
<v Speaker 7>reason that some people say that she went into the

772
00:51:28.800 --> 00:51:33.519
<v Speaker 7>mental health facility in February of nineteen ninety nine, not

773
00:51:33.559 --> 00:51:40.360
<v Speaker 7>only the fights about money, but because Steve supposedly found

774
00:51:40.360 --> 00:51:45.639
<v Speaker 7>out about that time about her affair with Jimmy Martinez. Reputedly,

775
00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:50.119
<v Speaker 7>Celeste would have sex with Jimmy Martinez and Tracy Charlton

776
00:51:50.199 --> 00:51:56.239
<v Speaker 7>on the same day. So but as far as the police,

777
00:51:56.480 --> 00:52:00.559
<v Speaker 7>they went there to question him on the day of

778
00:52:00.599 --> 00:52:04.920
<v Speaker 7>the shooting, and when they said, you know, Tracy Charlton,

779
00:52:05.519 --> 00:52:10.039
<v Speaker 7>they said that Steve's fifth clenched and he tried to

780
00:52:10.079 --> 00:52:12.679
<v Speaker 7>say something, but he had a tube down his throat.

781
00:52:13.039 --> 00:52:17.519
<v Speaker 7>But it was obvious something was going on, but you know,

782
00:52:18.400 --> 00:52:20.760
<v Speaker 7>Celeste would always kick him out of the room. And

783
00:52:20.800 --> 00:52:22.840
<v Speaker 7>then when they tried to come back and talk to

784
00:52:22.880 --> 00:52:26.159
<v Speaker 7>Steve again, there was a sign up that said no

785
00:52:26.199 --> 00:52:29.400
<v Speaker 7>one is allowed him to talk to Steve Beard, including

786
00:52:29.480 --> 00:52:34.360
<v Speaker 7>the police. And one of the things that the complaints

787
00:52:34.400 --> 00:52:38.760
<v Speaker 7>that the prosecutors had was that they believed that the

788
00:52:38.800 --> 00:52:42.000
<v Speaker 7>police did not pursue this hard in us that they

789
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:44.960
<v Speaker 7>should have, you know, worked harder to get Steve in there.

790
00:52:44.559 --> 00:52:48.280
<v Speaker 7>And supposedly Steve wanted to talk to the police, but

791
00:52:48.480 --> 00:52:49.679
<v Speaker 7>Celeste prevented it.

792
00:52:51.639 --> 00:52:54.840
<v Speaker 6>Now, in terms of his behavior at that time, Steve

793
00:52:55.679 --> 00:52:59.639
<v Speaker 6>did he have any idea suspicion about his own wife

794
00:52:59.679 --> 00:53:02.159
<v Speaker 6>and the possibility she may be involved and as a

795
00:53:02.199 --> 00:53:05.519
<v Speaker 6>result he had a certain type of behavior or did

796
00:53:05.559 --> 00:53:09.280
<v Speaker 6>he think it might be Tracy or what was his

797
00:53:09.320 --> 00:53:13.440
<v Speaker 6>behavior and how did he treat it Celest as a result,

798
00:53:13.960 --> 00:53:14.360
<v Speaker 6>I mean, he.

799
00:53:14.800 --> 00:53:17.880
<v Speaker 7>Believed that it was Tracy because you know, she was

800
00:53:17.920 --> 00:53:20.440
<v Speaker 7>pulled in so quickly, and like a month later it

801
00:53:20.480 --> 00:53:25.880
<v Speaker 7>came out in the newspaper and Steve's friends all immediately

802
00:53:25.920 --> 00:53:30.119
<v Speaker 7>thought Celeste was involved, and they would even call the police,

803
00:53:30.519 --> 00:53:32.360
<v Speaker 7>you know, and say, hey, check into her, and the

804
00:53:32.360 --> 00:53:37.519
<v Speaker 7>police wouldn't return their phone calls. And Steve he totally

805
00:53:37.559 --> 00:53:42.480
<v Speaker 7>accepted that Tracy was behind it and Celeste. It's like

806
00:53:42.559 --> 00:53:45.320
<v Speaker 7>it would come and go that he would sometimes feel

807
00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:47.360
<v Speaker 7>like yeah, yeah, and then go, no, no, no, that's

808
00:53:47.360 --> 00:53:49.880
<v Speaker 7>not my wife. My wife would never do that. But

809
00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:54.280
<v Speaker 7>Becky thought this. The detectives told Becky to try to

810
00:53:54.320 --> 00:53:57.679
<v Speaker 7>get their dad to talk about it, to record their conversations.

811
00:53:58.360 --> 00:54:03.960
<v Speaker 7>So everyone seem to know that Celeste had done it,

812
00:54:06.039 --> 00:54:10.800
<v Speaker 7>and Steve would convince himself that she hadn't, but nobody

813
00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:16.320
<v Speaker 7>had absolute proof that she had done it, because the

814
00:54:16.320 --> 00:54:19.199
<v Speaker 7>only real absolute proof would come through Tracy Carlton.

815
00:54:20.760 --> 00:54:24.119
<v Speaker 6>Right now, Tracy Charlton is rounded up. It takes a

816
00:54:24.159 --> 00:54:28.199
<v Speaker 6>little while, but she's arrested and charged. So we will

817
00:54:28.199 --> 00:54:31.480
<v Speaker 6>fast forward to about a year later. And if I'm

818
00:54:31.599 --> 00:54:35.039
<v Speaker 6>mispronouncing this gentleman's name, the police now are Rick Whines,

819
00:54:35.480 --> 00:54:42.719
<v Speaker 6>and we're talking about Bill Menge and we're talking about ghost, right,

820
00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:45.719
<v Speaker 6>And so we're talking about the investigation right now and

821
00:54:46.599 --> 00:54:51.840
<v Speaker 6>the result of having Tracy Tarlton incostody awaiting trial, and

822
00:54:51.880 --> 00:54:54.760
<v Speaker 6>that results will fast forward to a year later and

823
00:54:54.840 --> 00:54:58.000
<v Speaker 6>what happens with Tracy Charlton and what happens with the

824
00:54:58.039 --> 00:55:03.760
<v Speaker 6>development of this case and c Beard.

825
00:55:04.159 --> 00:55:07.519
<v Speaker 7>Well, Tracy was not going to turn on Celeste and

826
00:55:07.559 --> 00:55:10.280
<v Speaker 7>she was not going to admit her involvement in this.

827
00:55:11.480 --> 00:55:15.159
<v Speaker 7>Tracy's father was a prominent attorney in Fort Worth, her brother,

828
00:55:15.440 --> 00:55:19.000
<v Speaker 7>at least one of her brothers, was an attorney, so

829
00:55:19.039 --> 00:55:23.199
<v Speaker 7>she knew things. You know, She's not a dumb person.

830
00:55:23.519 --> 00:55:25.599
<v Speaker 7>I mean, she did a stupid thing, but she is

831
00:55:25.599 --> 00:55:29.599
<v Speaker 7>not stupid. In fact, she is brilliant. And she was

832
00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:35.800
<v Speaker 7>not going to turn on Celeste until one day she

833
00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:39.039
<v Speaker 7>opens up the newspaper and Tracy's sitting in jail at

834
00:55:39.039 --> 00:55:44.679
<v Speaker 7>this point and sees that within six months, actually less

835
00:55:44.679 --> 00:55:50.800
<v Speaker 7>than six months are after Steve's death, Celeste had gotten

836
00:55:50.840 --> 00:55:56.239
<v Speaker 7>married again to a bartender in Austin's downtown sixth Street

837
00:55:56.280 --> 00:56:01.719
<v Speaker 7>bar district. And with that it hit Tracy that she

838
00:56:01.920 --> 00:56:07.239
<v Speaker 7>had been used. And so it took months to happen,

839
00:56:07.519 --> 00:56:12.280
<v Speaker 7>but she eventually struck a deal with the DA's office

840
00:56:12.800 --> 00:56:18.119
<v Speaker 7>that if she would, you know, give truthful testimony against Celeste,

841
00:56:18.639 --> 00:56:20.639
<v Speaker 7>that she would get a lighter sentence.

842
00:56:23.039 --> 00:56:26.920
<v Speaker 6>Now, were the police and investigators using that information to

843
00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:30.599
<v Speaker 6>their advantage, sort of leveraging that information to be able

844
00:56:30.639 --> 00:56:34.360
<v Speaker 6>to because they had a very good idea that Celeste

845
00:56:34.400 --> 00:56:39.039
<v Speaker 6>was involved with that was from their initiative, and use

846
00:56:39.119 --> 00:56:43.280
<v Speaker 6>that information to finally break a Tracy Charlton.

847
00:56:43.840 --> 00:56:47.400
<v Speaker 7>Well, actually it was after stieve you know, he was

848
00:56:47.400 --> 00:56:51.280
<v Speaker 7>shot in October of ninety nine. He died in January

849
00:56:51.360 --> 00:56:56.199
<v Speaker 7>of two thousand and the day of the funeral, Becky

850
00:56:56.239 --> 00:56:59.079
<v Speaker 7>Beard and her brother went to the cops, I mean

851
00:56:59.119 --> 00:57:01.840
<v Speaker 7>to the DA's and talked to him and said, Celeste

852
00:57:01.880 --> 00:57:04.519
<v Speaker 7>did it. Here's proof, here's proof, and Bill Man is

853
00:57:04.559 --> 00:57:08.639
<v Speaker 7>still saying, no, this is not proof. Constantly. Bill Man

854
00:57:08.880 --> 00:57:12.800
<v Speaker 7>just said no, this isn't proof. Then, and I believe

855
00:57:12.840 --> 00:57:16.519
<v Speaker 7>it was April of two thousand, the twins and their

856
00:57:16.559 --> 00:57:22.119
<v Speaker 7>boyfriends came to a Bill Maninge and said, look, we

857
00:57:22.280 --> 00:57:30.400
<v Speaker 7>have all this information, and they had tons of photographs, cards, checks,

858
00:57:30.599 --> 00:57:37.079
<v Speaker 7>financial records and everything that implicated Celeste. But Bill Mainge

859
00:57:37.360 --> 00:57:40.679
<v Speaker 7>still didn't quite feel like he had a case in

860
00:57:40.719 --> 00:57:44.960
<v Speaker 7>the meantime, another huge case had happened where a cop

861
00:57:45.079 --> 00:57:48.079
<v Speaker 7>was shot, and so he was focused on that and

862
00:57:48.119 --> 00:57:54.079
<v Speaker 7>it dragged things out. But after Celeste got married, Tracy's

863
00:57:54.599 --> 00:57:58.800
<v Speaker 7>attorneys kept coming to Bill Manage, the prosecutor, and saying,

864
00:57:59.400 --> 00:58:01.960
<v Speaker 7>we can give you Celeste, we can give you Celeste.

865
00:58:02.039 --> 00:58:05.239
<v Speaker 7>And he kept saying, I don't care, I don't care.

866
00:58:05.920 --> 00:58:08.639
<v Speaker 7>You know I'm not interested. You know, I'm not going

867
00:58:08.719 --> 00:58:12.320
<v Speaker 7>to do a deal. And eventually he did do a

868
00:58:12.360 --> 00:58:16.719
<v Speaker 7>deal and Tracy took a lie detect her test, which

869
00:58:17.039 --> 00:58:20.400
<v Speaker 7>proved that she was telling the truth. She then Bill

870
00:58:20.519 --> 00:58:24.360
<v Speaker 7>Manage left the DA's office. A new proseccutor was brought in,

871
00:58:24.480 --> 00:58:28.559
<v Speaker 7>Alison Wetzel, which is good because Tracy did not like Manage,

872
00:58:28.760 --> 00:58:33.360
<v Speaker 7>and she and Wetzel got along really well, and they

873
00:58:33.559 --> 00:58:39.920
<v Speaker 7>just built a fabulous case against celest and where they

874
00:58:40.079 --> 00:58:46.400
<v Speaker 7>not only had Tracy's testimony, they had both of the

875
00:58:46.480 --> 00:58:51.199
<v Speaker 7>twins testified against their mother, the boyfriends testified against her,

876
00:58:51.679 --> 00:58:56.480
<v Speaker 7>their friend Amy Cozart testified against her. In fact, there

877
00:58:56.559 --> 00:59:02.760
<v Speaker 7>was really not a case that to gear and put on. Yeah,

878
00:59:02.840 --> 00:59:05.599
<v Speaker 7>well he was who was Celeste Beard's defense attorney?

879
00:59:06.599 --> 00:59:10.800
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, we talked about that because it Originally Celeste was

880
00:59:10.840 --> 00:59:13.599
<v Speaker 6>given an eight million dollar bail and we get the

881
00:59:14.920 --> 00:59:18.400
<v Speaker 6>to say the least the colorful gearon comes in and

882
00:59:18.480 --> 00:59:21.519
<v Speaker 6>knocks that down the five hundred thousand dollars. But you

883
00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:25.840
<v Speaker 6>talk about the antics of de Geuron, and that's an

884
00:59:26.000 --> 00:59:30.559
<v Speaker 6>amply a way of describing his as courtroom behavior and

885
00:59:30.679 --> 00:59:33.559
<v Speaker 6>outside the courtroom behavior. So tell us a little bit

886
00:59:33.599 --> 00:59:37.320
<v Speaker 6>about what Dick Jigurin does and his strategy with this.

887
00:59:38.800 --> 00:59:42.440
<v Speaker 7>Oh gee, I'm not sure what his strategy was. And

888
00:59:42.480 --> 00:59:45.880
<v Speaker 7>that's how weak his case was. And I think he

889
00:59:46.000 --> 00:59:52.920
<v Speaker 7>knew that because the only thing that he had that

890
00:59:53.039 --> 00:59:57.079
<v Speaker 7>I could see was the stuff that didn't make it

891
00:59:57.119 --> 01:00:01.599
<v Speaker 7>into the courtroom, and that was bad. Back when in

892
01:00:01.760 --> 01:00:08.119
<v Speaker 7>the summer of two thousand, the kids, the twins tried

893
01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:11.880
<v Speaker 7>to I guess you would say, sue a Celeste, and

894
01:00:11.960 --> 01:00:15.599
<v Speaker 7>they gave all this testimony because they wanted their freedom

895
01:00:15.639 --> 01:00:19.079
<v Speaker 7>from her. They were terrified of her, and things that

896
01:00:19.159 --> 01:00:24.760
<v Speaker 7>they testified to their testimony kind of changed over the years,

897
01:00:24.800 --> 01:00:29.239
<v Speaker 7>and he was which would make the children's testimony not

898
01:00:29.480 --> 01:00:32.719
<v Speaker 7>as strong, but he could not get that into the courtroom,

899
01:00:33.440 --> 01:00:40.039
<v Speaker 7>so he just I don't know, Dick got really upset

900
01:00:40.079 --> 01:00:42.239
<v Speaker 7>with me about the book and told me I put

901
01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:45.480
<v Speaker 7>the things in there that I shouldn't have. And I've

902
01:00:45.480 --> 01:00:47.800
<v Speaker 7>always guessed that one of the things is that Dick

903
01:00:47.920 --> 01:00:50.400
<v Speaker 7>has some tells, you know, like when you're playing poker

904
01:00:50.440 --> 01:00:54.519
<v Speaker 7>and you have tells. I noticed that he has tells.

905
01:00:55.400 --> 01:00:59.599
<v Speaker 7>And when he's upset and scared and stressed, his face

906
01:00:59.639 --> 01:01:03.480
<v Speaker 7>turns red and he gets really angry, and his face

907
01:01:03.559 --> 01:01:10.000
<v Speaker 7>turned red a lot of times. And he could not

908
01:01:12.239 --> 01:01:18.159
<v Speaker 7>get particularly Christopher Docy, Jennifer's boyfriend. I remember his testimony

909
01:01:18.280 --> 01:01:24.119
<v Speaker 7>so well because well and also Amy Cozart, Dick would

910
01:01:24.159 --> 01:01:29.320
<v Speaker 7>try to get them shaken up, you know, and twist

911
01:01:29.400 --> 01:01:34.800
<v Speaker 7>up their testimony, and they would not budge. You would

912
01:01:34.800 --> 01:01:37.400
<v Speaker 7>have thought that they were the courtroom pros and he

913
01:01:37.519 --> 01:01:41.519
<v Speaker 7>was the amateur, because it was like they controlled him

914
01:01:41.679 --> 01:01:44.840
<v Speaker 7>instead of vice versa. And I find this so interesting

915
01:01:44.880 --> 01:01:47.840
<v Speaker 7>because you know, he handles Robert Durst, who you know

916
01:01:48.119 --> 01:01:51.400
<v Speaker 7>is coming up eventually sometime, I guess, on trial for

917
01:01:51.480 --> 01:01:55.400
<v Speaker 7>a murder out in la and Robert Durst is the

918
01:01:55.480 --> 01:01:58.480
<v Speaker 7>real estate mogul from New York who has always been

919
01:01:58.519 --> 01:02:02.599
<v Speaker 7>suspected of killing his wife in New York and then

920
01:02:03.000 --> 01:02:06.679
<v Speaker 7>he did kill a guy in Galveston, Texas, and Garon

921
01:02:06.719 --> 01:02:10.480
<v Speaker 7>got him got free. So we were all expecting, you know,

922
01:02:10.559 --> 01:02:16.480
<v Speaker 7>that maybe this would happen, and Dick was just he

923
01:02:16.480 --> 01:02:20.360
<v Speaker 7>he couldn't do any he could not accomplish anything. Of course,

924
01:02:20.400 --> 01:02:23.519
<v Speaker 7>it didn't help that he has a client who is

925
01:02:23.519 --> 01:02:31.159
<v Speaker 7>probably lying to him constantly, and so it was this

926
01:02:31.239 --> 01:02:33.320
<v Speaker 7>is one time where I got, I say, and I

927
01:02:33.360 --> 01:02:35.119
<v Speaker 7>hate to say this, but you got to read the

928
01:02:35.119 --> 01:02:39.440
<v Speaker 7>book because to watch Garon in action, and I really

929
01:02:39.760 --> 01:02:43.920
<v Speaker 7>wanted to focus because he is such a ICoD in

930
01:02:43.960 --> 01:02:47.719
<v Speaker 7>the world of law, and to see him this where

931
01:02:48.360 --> 01:02:53.199
<v Speaker 7>two young attorneys from Austin, Texas just whipped the pants

932
01:02:53.239 --> 01:02:57.079
<v Speaker 7>off of him, you know, because he would bring up

933
01:02:57.119 --> 01:03:00.840
<v Speaker 7>things that in Austin, Texas, which has alleged Lee a liberal,

934
01:03:01.239 --> 01:03:06.400
<v Speaker 7>you know image. He would do things like this horrible

935
01:03:06.559 --> 01:03:08.960
<v Speaker 7>lesbian and everything, and he would forget that there were

936
01:03:08.960 --> 01:03:13.840
<v Speaker 7>gay people on the jury. He would talk about insanity

937
01:03:13.960 --> 01:03:16.199
<v Speaker 7>and stuff, but he would forget that there were people

938
01:03:16.559 --> 01:03:19.920
<v Speaker 7>on the jury who had, you know, had mental health issues.

939
01:03:20.360 --> 01:03:24.639
<v Speaker 7>He would harp on the fact that they were smoking

940
01:03:24.760 --> 01:03:28.840
<v Speaker 7>pot well weed is very common in Austin. It's like

941
01:03:28.920 --> 01:03:32.880
<v Speaker 7>he forgot his audience. And yet Degaron grew up in Austin.

942
01:03:34.480 --> 01:03:38.599
<v Speaker 7>It was just it's it's like he thought, this is

943
01:03:38.639 --> 01:03:43.679
<v Speaker 7>my personal opinion, he thought he was doing a trial

944
01:03:43.960 --> 01:03:49.760
<v Speaker 7>in the much more conservative Houston, Texas rather than in Austin,

945
01:03:51.239 --> 01:03:54.480
<v Speaker 7>and it's it's like he had no concept of the

946
01:03:54.559 --> 01:03:59.880
<v Speaker 7>audience he was going to or the strength of Tracy Charleton,

947
01:04:01.000 --> 01:04:06.400
<v Speaker 7>Christopher Doci, Amy coz Art, Alison Wetzel, and Gary Cobb,

948
01:04:06.559 --> 01:04:10.920
<v Speaker 7>the other prosecutor on the case, who were just absolutely amazing.

949
01:04:14.239 --> 01:04:17.800
<v Speaker 6>What do you point out as the again, they were

950
01:04:17.800 --> 01:04:21.559
<v Speaker 6>young attorneys with against this veteran, but it looked like

951
01:04:21.599 --> 01:04:24.320
<v Speaker 6>the veteran just showed up and put in his time

952
01:04:25.159 --> 01:04:28.360
<v Speaker 6>as opposed to these other people. Was it the preparation

953
01:04:29.079 --> 01:04:32.119
<v Speaker 6>of these because it looked like in the beginning that

954
01:04:32.519 --> 01:04:36.320
<v Speaker 6>a lot of this testimony, like you say that the

955
01:04:36.440 --> 01:04:42.159
<v Speaker 6>daughters had stories that changed, and the boyfriends were very

956
01:04:42.199 --> 01:04:46.239
<v Speaker 6>solid in this. But what do you attribute this? You

957
01:04:46.320 --> 01:04:52.639
<v Speaker 6>talked about the brilliant strategy that the prosecutors had, but

958
01:04:52.719 --> 01:04:56.320
<v Speaker 6>what was it? Was it the preparation of those witnesses.

959
01:04:56.960 --> 01:05:02.199
<v Speaker 7>The preparation of Alison we and Gary Cobb. Of the witnesses,

960
01:05:02.960 --> 01:05:05.800
<v Speaker 7>Dick de Garin will tell you he and his staff

961
01:05:05.880 --> 01:05:10.000
<v Speaker 7>worked like a dog on this. But like I say,

962
01:05:10.119 --> 01:05:15.360
<v Speaker 7>he constantly offended the jurors. One of the things that

963
01:05:15.760 --> 01:05:20.239
<v Speaker 7>he did that would make for great TV is at

964
01:05:20.239 --> 01:05:27.159
<v Speaker 7>the very end and closing arguments, climbed up on the

965
01:05:27.199 --> 01:05:32.519
<v Speaker 7>defense table, put a pillow on his stomach to represent

966
01:05:32.639 --> 01:05:36.960
<v Speaker 7>a fat Steve Beard and pulled a sheet over it

967
01:05:37.360 --> 01:05:42.880
<v Speaker 7>and talked about how then you know, Tracy shot him

968
01:05:43.159 --> 01:05:46.960
<v Speaker 7>in the gut, and it was just I'm sure he

969
01:05:47.039 --> 01:05:50.679
<v Speaker 7>thought this was a dramatic, wonderful recreation, but it was

970
01:05:50.920 --> 01:05:57.920
<v Speaker 7>just laughable and offensive. Yes, And then in closing arguments,

971
01:05:58.360 --> 01:06:01.400
<v Speaker 7>when he was arguing, you know, the guilty not the

972
01:06:02.400 --> 01:06:09.960
<v Speaker 7>punishment phase, he just downright insulted the jurors over and

973
01:06:10.079 --> 01:06:12.840
<v Speaker 7>over and told them how stupid they were basically for

974
01:06:12.960 --> 01:06:16.280
<v Speaker 7>coming to this. And you could just see the jurors

975
01:06:16.280 --> 01:06:19.159
<v Speaker 7>getting angry or and angrier, and from what I if

976
01:06:19.159 --> 01:06:24.280
<v Speaker 7>I remember correctly, when they broke to deliberate, they had

977
01:06:24.280 --> 01:06:27.840
<v Speaker 7>to spend a great deal of time calming down, you know,

978
01:06:27.920 --> 01:06:31.960
<v Speaker 7>getting over their anger at Dick Degaron. It's like he

979
01:06:32.280 --> 01:06:38.719
<v Speaker 7>just misread everything and why, I.

980
01:06:38.639 --> 01:06:43.719
<v Speaker 6>Don't know, what was the demeanor of Celeste Johnson by

981
01:06:43.760 --> 01:06:48.079
<v Speaker 6>this point, and we didn't talk about her husband, Cole Johnson,

982
01:06:48.880 --> 01:06:52.679
<v Speaker 6>that she had married right after, you know, she became

983
01:06:52.719 --> 01:06:55.920
<v Speaker 6>a widow and then shortly after. But what was what

984
01:06:56.400 --> 01:06:59.920
<v Speaker 6>is his story and is he supportive of his wife?

985
01:07:00.199 --> 01:07:01.880
<v Speaker 6>Tell us a little bit about Cole Johnson.

986
01:07:02.519 --> 01:07:05.400
<v Speaker 7>Well, Cole Johnson, you know, again you have to look

987
01:07:05.440 --> 01:07:09.159
<v Speaker 7>at she was married to this fat, rich old man

988
01:07:10.119 --> 01:07:16.320
<v Speaker 7>who was gruff and everything. And Cole Johnson was a handsome, tall,

989
01:07:16.719 --> 01:07:21.320
<v Speaker 7>somewhat slim, you know, young guy around fortieth or so,

990
01:07:22.559 --> 01:07:26.679
<v Speaker 7>and so the comparison of the looks whoe. But when

991
01:07:26.760 --> 01:07:30.039
<v Speaker 7>you you know, he was in a way a drifter

992
01:07:30.320 --> 01:07:34.840
<v Speaker 7>kind of guy that went around tending barns, playing music

993
01:07:35.119 --> 01:07:40.480
<v Speaker 7>and laying women. But he, you know, he sees Celeste

994
01:07:40.599 --> 01:07:44.880
<v Speaker 7>and she's a wealthy widow, and he hooks onto her,

995
01:07:45.639 --> 01:07:49.960
<v Speaker 7>and he stayed loyal to her through the entire trial

996
01:07:50.119 --> 01:07:53.280
<v Speaker 7>and for a while thereafter. And now when I ask

997
01:07:53.400 --> 01:07:57.559
<v Speaker 7>people about him, they they will just say he kind

998
01:07:57.559 --> 01:08:01.400
<v Speaker 7>of disappeared, that's all they'll say. You know, he's not

999
01:08:01.519 --> 01:08:07.960
<v Speaker 7>around anymore. But throughout the trial he was there every day.

1000
01:08:08.199 --> 01:08:13.480
<v Speaker 7>He was supportive. She would he would write poetry to her,

1001
01:08:13.800 --> 01:08:17.800
<v Speaker 7>song lyrics. He would say, I will. He got up

1002
01:08:17.800 --> 01:08:21.039
<v Speaker 7>in court and say, I will work two jobs to

1003
01:08:21.560 --> 01:08:23.920
<v Speaker 7>you know, because we're going to fight this and prove

1004
01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:26.479
<v Speaker 7>that she is innocent. There is nothing that proves that

1005
01:08:26.520 --> 01:08:29.680
<v Speaker 7>she is guilty. And when he's saying that, he will,

1006
01:08:30.520 --> 01:08:33.640
<v Speaker 7>you know, you work two jobs. Well, at that point

1007
01:08:33.720 --> 01:08:37.800
<v Speaker 7>he didn't have any jobs. You know, he was going

1008
01:08:37.880 --> 01:08:42.239
<v Speaker 7>to put on his Armani suit to court and friends said, hey,

1009
01:08:42.279 --> 01:08:44.760
<v Speaker 7>don't do that. You know, we're trying to go for

1010
01:08:44.840 --> 01:08:47.600
<v Speaker 7>a low bell. You can't go in with an Armani suit.

1011
01:08:48.479 --> 01:08:50.920
<v Speaker 7>And I found him to be a nice, pleasant guy,

1012
01:08:51.520 --> 01:08:57.199
<v Speaker 7>but you know, he's not going to be a society

1013
01:08:57.239 --> 01:09:01.920
<v Speaker 7>guy that's you know, going to be respected in the

1014
01:09:01.960 --> 01:09:04.359
<v Speaker 7>country club, even though he might be in there with Celeste.

1015
01:09:04.399 --> 01:09:07.000
<v Speaker 7>He's not going to be respected like Steve Beard.

1016
01:09:08.319 --> 01:09:16.199
<v Speaker 6>Right now, obviously, the outcome is she's imprisoned. And of

1017
01:09:16.199 --> 01:09:20.640
<v Speaker 6>course what's a big feature is the interview. So don't

1018
01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:23.840
<v Speaker 6>give everything away, but tell us about the conditions under

1019
01:09:23.840 --> 01:09:26.960
<v Speaker 6>which you were able to interview Celeste.

1020
01:09:27.840 --> 01:09:32.479
<v Speaker 7>Well, we had to fight for interviews in the past.

1021
01:09:33.359 --> 01:09:35.720
<v Speaker 7>We could and I say we I'm talking about true

1022
01:09:35.800 --> 01:09:39.960
<v Speaker 7>crime writers in general. We could go into the prisons

1023
01:09:40.479 --> 01:09:44.359
<v Speaker 7>and do interviews and then say, oh, you can only

1024
01:09:44.399 --> 01:09:47.159
<v Speaker 7>have an hour, that's what we say officially, but just

1025
01:09:47.199 --> 01:09:49.600
<v Speaker 7>take as long as you want. And when I did

1026
01:09:49.680 --> 01:09:53.680
<v Speaker 7>my first true crime book, Wasted, I was put a

1027
01:09:53.720 --> 01:09:56.720
<v Speaker 7>loan in the room with the killer, who was allegedly

1028
01:09:56.760 --> 01:09:59.960
<v Speaker 7>a hip man for the Mexican mafia. We sat literally

1029
01:10:00.279 --> 01:10:04.399
<v Speaker 7>knee to me. I took a tattoo tour of his body,

1030
01:10:04.560 --> 01:10:08.239
<v Speaker 7>and we were together for I think four hours approximately.

1031
01:10:09.800 --> 01:10:13.359
<v Speaker 7>By the time Celeste and Tracy were in prison, a

1032
01:10:13.439 --> 01:10:16.760
<v Speaker 7>new regime so to speak, had come in and taken over,

1033
01:10:16.960 --> 01:10:20.079
<v Speaker 7>and they considered true crime writers not journalists, and we

1034
01:10:20.079 --> 01:10:23.520
<v Speaker 7>were not allowed to do interviews. We fought for this.

1035
01:10:23.800 --> 01:10:26.319
<v Speaker 7>We got where we could do interviews, but like say

1036
01:10:26.319 --> 01:10:31.079
<v Speaker 7>in the past, Nita knee, now we were literally timed

1037
01:10:31.399 --> 01:10:35.239
<v Speaker 7>down to the second and we had somebody sitting there

1038
01:10:36.079 --> 01:10:42.600
<v Speaker 7>observing her the whole time, and so and one of

1039
01:10:42.640 --> 01:10:46.720
<v Speaker 7>the things though that worked out good, is because when

1040
01:10:46.880 --> 01:10:52.560
<v Speaker 7>I'm interviewing Celeste and I always wondered, how could this happen?

1041
01:10:52.760 --> 01:10:55.520
<v Speaker 7>How could this crime really? How could people have been

1042
01:10:55.640 --> 01:10:59.239
<v Speaker 7>sucked into her? And then when I sat across firm

1043
01:10:59.279 --> 01:11:04.039
<v Speaker 7>or for an hour or I understood she's a blast

1044
01:11:04.560 --> 01:11:09.520
<v Speaker 7>she's charming, she's funny. I had a great time with her.

1045
01:11:10.560 --> 01:11:12.920
<v Speaker 7>I didn't really want to leave because we were laughing.

1046
01:11:13.000 --> 01:11:15.720
<v Speaker 7>And then I got I get it. I get it now.

1047
01:11:16.800 --> 01:11:19.520
<v Speaker 7>But as we were being ushered out, she's being let

1048
01:11:19.560 --> 01:11:21.880
<v Speaker 7>out one way, I'm being let out the other. And

1049
01:11:21.920 --> 01:11:26.000
<v Speaker 7>we haven't finished our interview, and I'm shouting her questions

1050
01:11:26.439 --> 01:11:31.199
<v Speaker 7>and I'm like, well, what about the walkthrough? You know,

1051
01:11:31.319 --> 01:11:34.800
<v Speaker 7>why did Tracy do this or something? You know? And

1052
01:11:35.880 --> 01:11:40.039
<v Speaker 7>Celeste at this point, because she's being rushed out, she

1053
01:11:40.319 --> 01:11:44.439
<v Speaker 7>doesn't really realize. I think what she's saying to me,

1054
01:11:46.640 --> 01:11:49.119
<v Speaker 7>and do I dare tell you this? You know what

1055
01:11:49.199 --> 01:11:53.039
<v Speaker 7>she did say? And actually it's like I've got to

1056
01:11:53.159 --> 01:11:57.920
<v Speaker 7>look it up because uh, I'm trying. I want to

1057
01:11:57.960 --> 01:12:02.560
<v Speaker 7>get it correct. Oh gosh, And now I can't see it.

1058
01:12:03.600 --> 01:12:08.560
<v Speaker 7>But basically, oh I can't find it in the book.

1059
01:12:08.640 --> 01:12:09.079
<v Speaker 5>Oh rat.

1060
01:12:10.520 --> 01:12:15.479
<v Speaker 7>But she basically when I left, not realizing it, she

1061
01:12:15.640 --> 01:12:21.000
<v Speaker 7>confessed to me because she said something to the effect

1062
01:12:21.279 --> 01:12:22.960
<v Speaker 7>and I wish I could look and find this and

1063
01:12:22.960 --> 01:12:25.039
<v Speaker 7>then look it up and tell it to you. Specifically

1064
01:12:25.800 --> 01:12:30.760
<v Speaker 7>that Tracy wouldn't have screwed up if she hadn't have

1065
01:12:30.800 --> 01:12:33.560
<v Speaker 7>been mad at ceclast and if she had remembered the

1066
01:12:33.640 --> 01:12:37.399
<v Speaker 7>walk through, because remember how I said they did a

1067
01:12:37.479 --> 01:12:41.880
<v Speaker 7>walk through the day before and so let yeah, and

1068
01:12:42.000 --> 01:12:46.000
<v Speaker 7>Celeste basically admitted that there had been a walk through,

1069
01:12:46.720 --> 01:12:49.079
<v Speaker 7>and then she caught herself and said, oh, if there

1070
01:12:49.119 --> 01:12:53.680
<v Speaker 7>had been one, And I'm like, dang, I got it.

1071
01:12:53.880 --> 01:12:56.760
<v Speaker 7>You know, to me, that was like a confession.

1072
01:12:58.439 --> 01:13:01.680
<v Speaker 6>Well sure, I mean there's a lot of cases where

1073
01:13:02.279 --> 01:13:05.720
<v Speaker 6>despite all the evidence, despite the appeals, despite twenty five years,

1074
01:13:05.760 --> 01:13:11.079
<v Speaker 6>they're still professing their innocence. That's their ploy, right, that's right, simple.

1075
01:13:11.600 --> 01:13:15.520
<v Speaker 6>There's no benefit to confessing for those people like her

1076
01:13:16.560 --> 01:13:19.560
<v Speaker 6>that have been lying and conning right from the very beginning.

1077
01:13:20.399 --> 01:13:22.600
<v Speaker 7>And there are a lot of people who give me

1078
01:13:22.640 --> 01:13:26.199
<v Speaker 7>a hard time about my respect for Tracy Charlton because

1079
01:13:26.239 --> 01:13:28.640
<v Speaker 7>they say, how could you respect someone who tried to

1080
01:13:28.760 --> 01:13:34.079
<v Speaker 7>kill someone? And it's because of interviewing so many killers

1081
01:13:34.359 --> 01:13:38.039
<v Speaker 7>who always deny what they did. And I respect Tracy

1082
01:13:38.119 --> 01:13:41.640
<v Speaker 7>because she admits what she did and takes full responsibility

1083
01:13:41.680 --> 01:13:43.239
<v Speaker 7>for the actions.

1084
01:13:45.279 --> 01:13:48.319
<v Speaker 6>What was her You talked about the charm that exuded

1085
01:13:48.399 --> 01:13:54.760
<v Speaker 6>from from Celeste. What was when you spoke with Tracy?

1086
01:13:54.800 --> 01:13:55.600
<v Speaker 6>What did she say?

1087
01:13:56.520 --> 01:14:01.159
<v Speaker 7>Well, see, Tracy and I have a little a mutual history,

1088
01:14:01.199 --> 01:14:04.600
<v Speaker 7>and that we went to the same summer camp, and

1089
01:14:04.920 --> 01:14:07.199
<v Speaker 7>that we know a lot of the same people. In fact,

1090
01:14:07.239 --> 01:14:11.199
<v Speaker 7>one of my friends was a mentor to her, and

1091
01:14:12.239 --> 01:14:19.239
<v Speaker 7>she when God can't believe I'm telling this. When I

1092
01:14:19.319 --> 01:14:24.119
<v Speaker 7>first met Tracy, which was right after the trial, and

1093
01:14:24.880 --> 01:14:29.560
<v Speaker 7>we were all exhausted and stressed out, and I walked

1094
01:14:29.600 --> 01:14:33.640
<v Speaker 7>into the meeting with Tracy singing one of our camp songs,

1095
01:14:34.359 --> 01:14:40.720
<v Speaker 7>and she was furious. I learned this later from other people,

1096
01:14:41.119 --> 01:14:46.119
<v Speaker 7>because she thought I was being disrespectful to Steve. What

1097
01:14:46.199 --> 01:14:52.439
<v Speaker 7>Tracy did not know was that almost every night after court,

1098
01:14:53.560 --> 01:14:56.159
<v Speaker 7>Becky Beard and I were going out to dinner together,

1099
01:14:57.239 --> 01:15:00.760
<v Speaker 7>and Becky and I formed a bond where we were

1100
01:15:01.000 --> 01:15:04.159
<v Speaker 7>each other's support through the trial, because I know it

1101
01:15:04.199 --> 01:15:09.159
<v Speaker 7>sounds ridiculous, but these trials are emotionally wearing on the

1102
01:15:09.279 --> 01:15:13.560
<v Speaker 7>riders too. So Becky and I would go out at night,

1103
01:15:14.000 --> 01:15:17.760
<v Speaker 7>would have steaks or whatever, and we would talk and

1104
01:15:17.800 --> 01:15:22.079
<v Speaker 7>we would laugh a lot, would do black humor. We

1105
01:15:22.119 --> 01:15:26.680
<v Speaker 7>would also cry, particularly Becky would cry. So she didn't

1106
01:15:26.720 --> 01:15:31.079
<v Speaker 7>know that Becky and I had established this bond of

1107
01:15:31.239 --> 01:15:35.720
<v Speaker 7>laughter and tears, and that Becky wouldn't have objected to

1108
01:15:35.760 --> 01:15:39.640
<v Speaker 7>this fact. She probably would have been laughing. And so

1109
01:15:42.159 --> 01:15:45.439
<v Speaker 7>Tracy always didn't feel like I was respectful for the

1110
01:15:45.920 --> 01:15:49.199
<v Speaker 7>enough and got this. So even though I interviewed her

1111
01:15:49.239 --> 01:15:54.000
<v Speaker 7>twice and she was very giving to me as far

1112
01:15:54.039 --> 01:15:59.640
<v Speaker 7>as information, we did not create a particular bond. Does

1113
01:15:59.680 --> 01:16:00.439
<v Speaker 7>that make sense?

1114
01:16:01.399 --> 01:16:06.479
<v Speaker 6>Sure? But I ready to go ahead, go ahead.

1115
01:16:07.239 --> 01:16:10.079
<v Speaker 7>Well, I was just saying, I just know her through

1116
01:16:10.279 --> 01:16:13.920
<v Speaker 7>our summer camp together. We did not know each other

1117
01:16:14.000 --> 01:16:15.960
<v Speaker 7>at camp, but we knew so many people. I know

1118
01:16:16.039 --> 01:16:19.840
<v Speaker 7>our personality from book people. Because she does not remember this,

1119
01:16:20.000 --> 01:16:22.119
<v Speaker 7>but she helped me a lot with my first book.

1120
01:16:22.479 --> 01:16:30.039
<v Speaker 7>I'm selling it at book people. So I know I

1121
01:16:30.079 --> 01:16:33.640
<v Speaker 7>feel and this shouldn't be this way because I'm a journalist.

1122
01:16:33.680 --> 01:16:36.520
<v Speaker 7>I shouldn't have this. But I do feel a loyalty

1123
01:16:36.600 --> 01:16:39.880
<v Speaker 7>and respect for Tracy because I know how smart she is,

1124
01:16:40.000 --> 01:16:43.039
<v Speaker 7>I know how caring she is. I know what kind

1125
01:16:43.039 --> 01:16:45.760
<v Speaker 7>of family she came from and how screwed up it was,

1126
01:16:46.159 --> 01:16:49.560
<v Speaker 7>and how she says, don't blame this on my family,

1127
01:16:49.600 --> 01:16:53.319
<v Speaker 7>don't blame this on my youth, you know my growing up.

1128
01:16:53.760 --> 01:16:57.239
<v Speaker 7>Don't blame this on my mental illness. I did this.

1129
01:16:57.239 --> 01:17:00.960
<v Speaker 7>This is my fault, and I admire that.

1130
01:17:02.880 --> 01:17:05.880
<v Speaker 6>She was diagnosed as bipolar, as you write in the book,

1131
01:17:06.479 --> 01:17:11.520
<v Speaker 6>and the deal was twenty years, so there is a

1132
01:17:12.279 --> 01:17:14.199
<v Speaker 6>she will be released someday and.

1133
01:17:14.279 --> 01:17:15.079
<v Speaker 7>She's already out.

1134
01:17:15.920 --> 01:17:24.319
<v Speaker 6>She's out, Yeah, she's out. Wow. Now, what was interesting

1135
01:17:24.319 --> 01:17:29.399
<v Speaker 6>in the book too, is that Celeste by that time,

1136
01:17:29.479 --> 01:17:35.840
<v Speaker 6>Celeste Johnson was incarcerated and so used to being spoiled

1137
01:17:35.880 --> 01:17:38.119
<v Speaker 6>and pampered that she had a real tough time. And

1138
01:17:38.199 --> 01:17:40.920
<v Speaker 6>it's not you don't write it as humor, but I

1139
01:17:41.039 --> 01:17:44.039
<v Speaker 6>found it really, you know, I could just it was

1140
01:17:44.119 --> 01:17:50.239
<v Speaker 6>very vivid in her requests and her her complaints while

1141
01:17:50.279 --> 01:17:51.840
<v Speaker 6>she was in prison. Maybe it does tell us a

1142
01:17:51.880 --> 01:17:56.239
<v Speaker 6>little bit about how she fared in prison.

1143
01:17:56.800 --> 01:17:59.920
<v Speaker 7>Now, this was primarily when she was in jail here

1144
01:18:00.119 --> 01:18:05.680
<v Speaker 7>in Austin, and it was she couldn't get over that

1145
01:18:05.760 --> 01:18:08.920
<v Speaker 7>she wasn't the diva at the country club. You know.

1146
01:18:09.039 --> 01:18:13.640
<v Speaker 7>She would complain about how the shampoo in prison was

1147
01:18:13.760 --> 01:18:16.960
<v Speaker 7>bad and that it was making her hair braak and

1148
01:18:17.000 --> 01:18:21.399
<v Speaker 7>frizzy and fall out, and she wanted her sixty seventy

1149
01:18:21.479 --> 01:18:25.760
<v Speaker 7>dollars hair shampoo and stuff. She would complain that she

1150
01:18:25.880 --> 01:18:29.199
<v Speaker 7>wasn't getting her medications on time, and that she wasn't

1151
01:18:29.239 --> 01:18:32.800
<v Speaker 7>seeing a doctor, and she kept saying this, you know,

1152
01:18:32.960 --> 01:18:35.960
<v Speaker 7>I have health insurance, why can't I see a doctor.

1153
01:18:36.880 --> 01:18:42.239
<v Speaker 7>She complained that they weren't giving her her books, that

1154
01:18:42.319 --> 01:18:46.119
<v Speaker 7>she wanted her books to read, and the Garran sent

1155
01:18:46.199 --> 01:18:48.479
<v Speaker 7>a letter saying why can't she have her books?

1156
01:18:48.520 --> 01:18:49.439
<v Speaker 6>And the the.

1157
01:18:51.119 --> 01:18:54.439
<v Speaker 7>You know, officers at the jail would say, hey, she's

1158
01:18:54.439 --> 01:18:56.920
<v Speaker 7>not telling you the whole story. We only allow I

1159
01:18:56.960 --> 01:18:59.159
<v Speaker 7>can't remember. It was two or three books and she

1160
01:18:59.319 --> 01:19:03.239
<v Speaker 7>has six. And what was also amazing what she loved

1161
01:19:03.279 --> 01:19:06.880
<v Speaker 7>to read is true crime and that's one of the

1162
01:19:06.920 --> 01:19:11.079
<v Speaker 7>things that she would tell Tracy, like when Tracy said,

1163
01:19:11.119 --> 01:19:12.920
<v Speaker 7>it's not going to kill him if I shoot him

1164
01:19:12.960 --> 01:19:15.319
<v Speaker 7>in the gut, and Celeste said, oh, yes, I know

1165
01:19:15.439 --> 01:19:18.319
<v Speaker 7>these things. I read all these true crimes and mystery novels.

1166
01:19:18.359 --> 01:19:21.600
<v Speaker 7>I know what I'm doing, you know.

1167
01:19:22.680 --> 01:19:27.199
<v Speaker 6>Yeah. What was the what was the dynamic between Tracy

1168
01:19:27.439 --> 01:19:31.920
<v Speaker 6>at trial, the demeanor of Celeste at trial and that

1169
01:19:32.399 --> 01:19:36.920
<v Speaker 6>faithful event when Tracy is testifying against Celeste. What's what

1170
01:19:36.960 --> 01:19:37.680
<v Speaker 6>was that dynamic?

1171
01:19:37.840 --> 01:19:43.600
<v Speaker 7>Like at court, celest would usually glare at someone when

1172
01:19:43.640 --> 01:19:47.239
<v Speaker 7>they you know, thinking that she could intimidate them, and

1173
01:19:47.319 --> 01:19:50.319
<v Speaker 7>the people usually wouldn't look at her. But what I

1174
01:19:50.439 --> 01:19:53.840
<v Speaker 7>found most interesting is at the very beginning of the trial,

1175
01:19:54.520 --> 01:20:00.399
<v Speaker 7>Celeste was this demure girl who would sit there all

1176
01:20:00.479 --> 01:20:04.399
<v Speaker 7>prim and proper in her twin sets. And as the

1177
01:20:04.520 --> 01:20:13.600
<v Speaker 7>trial went on, that demure, proper demeanor would leave and

1178
01:20:13.640 --> 01:20:20.119
<v Speaker 7>she would constantly whisper and talk and roll her eyes,

1179
01:20:20.840 --> 01:20:22.920
<v Speaker 7>which she got in trouble with the judge for doing,

1180
01:20:23.039 --> 01:20:26.079
<v Speaker 7>like I say, glare at people. And then when there

1181
01:20:26.079 --> 01:20:30.720
<v Speaker 7>were breaks, she would be over there laughing with her

1182
01:20:32.720 --> 01:20:39.439
<v Speaker 7>defense team. At one point they were talking about Celeste

1183
01:20:39.479 --> 01:20:44.840
<v Speaker 7>wrapping a house and I'm sorry, I can't remember the

1184
01:20:44.880 --> 01:20:48.640
<v Speaker 7>exact joke, but I think it was that they were

1185
01:20:48.640 --> 01:20:54.399
<v Speaker 7>wrapping Jimmy Martinez's house and that Celeste was angry and

1186
01:20:54.479 --> 01:20:56.159
<v Speaker 7>you don't have to correct me if I'm wrong, and

1187
01:20:56.640 --> 01:20:59.680
<v Speaker 7>she urinated on his lawn or something like that.

1188
01:21:00.640 --> 01:21:02.279
<v Speaker 6>Yes, yeah, And.

1189
01:21:03.159 --> 01:21:10.439
<v Speaker 7>That testimony was on her fortieth birthday, and she laughed

1190
01:21:10.600 --> 01:21:13.960
<v Speaker 7>and loved that and said that that was her birthday present.

1191
01:21:14.079 --> 01:21:18.600
<v Speaker 7>Was hearing that testimony. Yeah, her life is on the line,

1192
01:21:19.560 --> 01:21:24.399
<v Speaker 7>and she's like giggling about people testifying that this grown

1193
01:21:24.520 --> 01:21:27.399
<v Speaker 7>woman is urinating on her ex husband's lawn.

1194
01:21:27.920 --> 01:21:36.520
<v Speaker 6>Come on, Yes, interesting What was it like for the

1195
01:21:36.640 --> 01:21:42.479
<v Speaker 6>daughters at this, because you know, I mean, there's no

1196
01:21:42.479 --> 01:21:44.800
<v Speaker 6>no win situation for these people at all.

1197
01:21:48.039 --> 01:21:54.199
<v Speaker 7>The daughters they were totally stressed by this, you know,

1198
01:21:54.399 --> 01:21:57.760
<v Speaker 7>in court, refusing to look at their mom and everything.

1199
01:21:59.000 --> 01:22:05.720
<v Speaker 7>But they have a sense of humor and so they

1200
01:22:05.800 --> 01:22:09.920
<v Speaker 7>could sort of turn it on and off that they

1201
01:22:09.960 --> 01:22:14.920
<v Speaker 7>can be laughing and joking one minute and then serious

1202
01:22:15.000 --> 01:22:19.880
<v Speaker 7>the next. I believe when they when the jury was

1203
01:22:19.920 --> 01:22:24.560
<v Speaker 7>deliberating and they were you know, shuttled away in victim

1204
01:22:24.640 --> 01:22:28.960
<v Speaker 7>services or the DA's office, I believe they were making

1205
01:22:29.079 --> 01:22:35.319
<v Speaker 7>jokes about Celeste getting the electric chair, you know, and

1206
01:22:35.359 --> 01:22:43.000
<v Speaker 7>watching her fry. So it's I don't they get really

1207
01:22:43.119 --> 01:22:46.520
<v Speaker 7>upset if anyone says they're like Celeste, But they you know,

1208
01:22:46.600 --> 01:22:49.319
<v Speaker 7>they are their mom's daughters, and it doesn't mean that

1209
01:22:49.399 --> 01:22:53.960
<v Speaker 7>they're completely like Celeste, but they do have that ability

1210
01:22:54.399 --> 01:22:59.840
<v Speaker 7>to laugh and see weirdness in tragic situation.

1211
01:23:03.039 --> 01:23:06.359
<v Speaker 6>What was the media's take on this? Did they were

1212
01:23:06.399 --> 01:23:08.840
<v Speaker 6>you guys sort of in line or where did they

1213
01:23:08.880 --> 01:23:12.119
<v Speaker 6>go with this? I know they love beautiful people and

1214
01:23:12.239 --> 01:23:18.840
<v Speaker 6>rich people, and then talk of lesbian sexual affairs and

1215
01:23:19.319 --> 01:23:22.479
<v Speaker 6>somebody commissioning somebody else to murder. They must love that.

1216
01:23:22.560 --> 01:23:24.800
<v Speaker 6>So tell us what the media response was and what

1217
01:23:24.840 --> 01:23:26.319
<v Speaker 6>their sort of take was on it.

1218
01:23:27.039 --> 01:23:30.319
<v Speaker 7>Well, the local media when this first happened pretty much

1219
01:23:30.359 --> 01:23:33.800
<v Speaker 7>stayed away from it. There's a scene in the book

1220
01:23:33.800 --> 01:23:37.279
<v Speaker 7>where I have a lot of the people in Austin

1221
01:23:37.319 --> 01:23:40.319
<v Speaker 7>who were friends with Steve sitting there at Gossipine and

1222
01:23:40.359 --> 01:23:44.000
<v Speaker 7>the local grocery store, going what's going on? Why isn't this,

1223
01:23:44.399 --> 01:23:47.399
<v Speaker 7>you know, being you know, on the news, And all

1224
01:23:47.399 --> 01:23:51.199
<v Speaker 7>they could figure out was why wasn't Steve. You know,

1225
01:23:51.439 --> 01:23:55.520
<v Speaker 7>it must be because Steve didn't want this, because he

1226
01:23:55.600 --> 01:23:59.840
<v Speaker 7>knew everybody in the media, being in radio. And then

1227
01:24:00.760 --> 01:24:04.920
<v Speaker 7>right afterwards, one of the local radio shows though on

1228
01:24:04.960 --> 01:24:08.319
<v Speaker 7>a country western station, where is there you know, kind

1229
01:24:08.359 --> 01:24:12.079
<v Speaker 7>of the I won't say Howard Stern of country music,

1230
01:24:12.159 --> 01:24:19.000
<v Speaker 7>but they're rather irreverent group, and Celeste called in to

1231
01:24:19.039 --> 01:24:22.800
<v Speaker 7>their radio show and saying, oh, everybody's making this totally trashy.

1232
01:24:23.520 --> 01:24:27.239
<v Speaker 7>And they're being very respectful Celeste and saying, you know,

1233
01:24:27.319 --> 01:24:30.199
<v Speaker 7>our prayers are with you, and you know, and then

1234
01:24:30.239 --> 01:24:34.560
<v Speaker 7>they hang up and then they're like going, holy cow.

1235
01:24:35.520 --> 01:24:39.199
<v Speaker 7>And so I think the media, the local media was

1236
01:24:39.319 --> 01:24:42.840
<v Speaker 7>rather respectful. It was all the whispering that's going on,

1237
01:24:44.279 --> 01:24:47.680
<v Speaker 7>and the grocery store aisles at the country club and

1238
01:24:47.720 --> 01:24:49.880
<v Speaker 7>that kind of stuff. Now, if you're talking about the

1239
01:24:50.039 --> 01:24:53.520
<v Speaker 7>national media, yeah, they ate it up. You know court

1240
01:24:53.560 --> 01:24:57.359
<v Speaker 7>TV was here back when court TV existed. ABC News

1241
01:24:57.520 --> 01:25:02.159
<v Speaker 7>was following, the CBS News was following, so you know

1242
01:25:03.079 --> 01:25:05.199
<v Speaker 7>it did attract a bit of media.

1243
01:25:06.680 --> 01:25:11.920
<v Speaker 6>Absolutely. Well, it's a fascinating tale. I want to thank

1244
01:25:11.960 --> 01:25:14.479
<v Speaker 6>you for coming on and talking about The Fortune Hunter.

1245
01:25:15.920 --> 01:25:18.520
<v Speaker 6>For those that might want to look further into some

1246
01:25:18.560 --> 01:25:21.199
<v Speaker 6>of the other books you. You mentioned the book Wasted,

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01:25:21.279 --> 01:25:24.560
<v Speaker 6>and we talked about Breaking Point with about Andrea Yates.

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01:25:25.199 --> 01:25:28.680
<v Speaker 6>Tell us where they might be able to contact you

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01:25:28.720 --> 01:25:31.319
<v Speaker 6>through Facebook or you have a website find out a

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01:25:31.319 --> 01:25:32.239
<v Speaker 6>lot more of your work.

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01:25:32.920 --> 01:25:36.079
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, on my website Susie Spencer dot com and that's

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01:25:36.079 --> 01:25:39.119
<v Speaker 7>spelled s uz y so that people get it correctly

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01:25:39.119 --> 01:25:43.359
<v Speaker 7>and find it. I'm I'm on you know, my website.

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01:25:43.399 --> 01:25:46.239
<v Speaker 7>You can email me through there. I'm on Facebook. I

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01:25:46.319 --> 01:25:50.239
<v Speaker 7>believe that Susie Spencer dot author something on Facebook. You

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01:25:50.279 --> 01:25:53.880
<v Speaker 7>can email me through there. I'm on Twitter at Spencer

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01:25:54.079 --> 01:25:57.840
<v Speaker 7>writer w R I T E R and you can

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01:25:57.840 --> 01:26:02.159
<v Speaker 7>contact me there. So I'm easy to reach. Just don't

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01:26:02.159 --> 01:26:03.359
<v Speaker 7>come at you with a shotgun.

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01:26:06.279 --> 01:26:08.479
<v Speaker 6>Yes, absolutely, because it could kill you.

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<v Speaker 7>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 6>Absolutely. Thank you very much Susie for coming on and

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01:26:13.239 --> 01:26:16.199
<v Speaker 6>talking about that, and I know we'll be talking again

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01:26:16.239 --> 01:26:18.520
<v Speaker 6>in the near future. So thank you very much, and

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01:26:18.760 --> 01:26:19.600
<v Speaker 6>have a great evening

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<v Speaker 7>You too, Thank you, good night, good night.
