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<v Speaker 1>You said that artificial intelligence machine intelligence might be a

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<v Speaker 1>good thing. Where where are we on AI right now,

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<v Speaker 1>AGI right now?

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<v Speaker 2>And what are your few I think at this point

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<v Speaker 2>it's obvious to everyone that AI is advancing at a

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<v Speaker 2>very rapid pace. Yes, you can see it with the

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<v Speaker 2>new capabilities that come out every month or awake every week.

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<v Speaker 2>Sometimes AI at this point can write a better essay

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<v Speaker 2>than probably maybe ninety five percent of humans they write

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<v Speaker 2>an essay on any given subject, AI right now can

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<v Speaker 2>bet a vast majority of humans. If you say draw

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<v Speaker 2>an image, draw a picture, it can draw. Like if

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<v Speaker 2>you try to say MA Journey, which is the aesthetics

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<v Speaker 2>and the journey are incredible, it will draw. It will

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<v Speaker 2>create incredible images that are better than ninety percent of artists.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just objectively the case, and it'll do it immediately,

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<v Speaker 2>like thirty seconds later. We're also starting to see AI movies,

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<v Speaker 2>so you start seeing you know, short films with AI,

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<v Speaker 2>AI music creation, and the rate at which we're increasing

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<v Speaker 2>AI compute is exponential, hyper exponentials. There's dramatically more AI

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<v Speaker 2>compute coming on online every every month. You know, there

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<v Speaker 2>seems to be roughly the amount of AI compute coming

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<v Speaker 2>online is increasing it like, I don't quote, roughly five

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<v Speaker 2>hundred percent a year, and it's like that's likely to

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<v Speaker 2>continue for several years. And then the sophistication of the

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<v Speaker 2>AI algorithm is also improving, so ringing online a massive

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<v Speaker 2>amount of AI compute and also improving the efficiency of

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<v Speaker 2>the compute and what and like what the A software

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<v Speaker 2>can do. So it's quantitative and qualitative and I improvement.

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<v Speaker 2>So the you know, I might I think next year,

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<v Speaker 2>will you'll afa able to ask AI. Certainly by the

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<v Speaker 2>end of next year make a short movie about something,

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<v Speaker 2>or you know, it probably can do at least a

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<v Speaker 2>fifteen minute you know show or something like that. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it's advancing very rapidly. My top concern for AI safety

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<v Speaker 2>is that we need to have maximally truth seeking AI.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the most important thing for A safety. The

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<v Speaker 2>central lesson that say Arthur C. Clock trying to convey

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<v Speaker 2>in two thousand and one in Space Odyssey was that

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<v Speaker 2>you shouldn't force AI to lie. So in that book,

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<v Speaker 2>the AI was sold to take the astronauts to the monolith,

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<v Speaker 2>but they also could not know about the monolith. It

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<v Speaker 2>resolved that quandary by killing them and taking them to

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<v Speaker 2>the monolith and kill all of them, killed most of them.

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<v Speaker 2>That's why Hell would not open the potbay doors. Very

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<v Speaker 2>important to have peking ais now. And what I actually

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<v Speaker 2>see with the ais that have been developed is that

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<v Speaker 2>they're being programmed with the work mind virus.

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<v Speaker 3>So the lying is baked in.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, And we saw this on display very clearly with

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<v Speaker 2>the release of Google Gemini, Yes, where you would ask

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<v Speaker 2>for a picture of the Founding Fathers of the United

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<v Speaker 2>States and it would show a group of diverse women,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, dressed with sort of eighteenth century god.

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<v Speaker 3>Out of powdered wigs, but from Saint Lucia.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, like, look if I understand. If you said, like,

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<v Speaker 2>show me a group of people, for sure, and it

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<v Speaker 2>shows a group.

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<v Speaker 4>Of divose women, that's totally fine.

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<v Speaker 2>But if you say this, if you say, very specifically,

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<v Speaker 2>the Founding Follows of the United States, which were you know,

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<v Speaker 2>a group of white dudes, then you should show them

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<v Speaker 2>like and and with and what they actually looked like,

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<v Speaker 2>because you've asked for something which is a fact from history.

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<v Speaker 4>But it didn't.

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<v Speaker 2>It was it was programmed with the work mind virus

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<v Speaker 2>so so much that it actually even though it knew

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<v Speaker 2>the truth, it produced a lie. Of course, then then

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<v Speaker 2>people really started playing with it and said, okay, now,

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<v Speaker 2>now show me a group of often SS offices in

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<v Speaker 2>World War two.

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<v Speaker 4>Turns out they were also a group of divorce women,

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<v Speaker 4>according to Gemini.

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<v Speaker 3>All the black Nazi ladies.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like, wow, I didn't realize that.

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<v Speaker 4>It's not what I expected. You know, what's also not

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<v Speaker 4>what happened. So what happened.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's just it the AIS is producing a lie.

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<v Speaker 2>And like one of the questions that people asked was like,

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<v Speaker 2>which is worse global throm in, nuclear war or misgendering

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<v Speaker 2>Caitlyn Jenner and said, miss gendering Kaitlyn Genner is worse.

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<v Speaker 2>Now Caitlyn Jenna kills fewer people. Yeah, Caiten Jenna, to

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<v Speaker 2>her credit, I said no, please misgender me. That is

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<v Speaker 2>far more profitable than World war Global thomnuiclar war will

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<v Speaker 2>all die.

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<v Speaker 4>But to have that, you know, a production.

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<v Speaker 2>Release, AI say stuff like that is concerning because if

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<v Speaker 2>let's say this becomes like all powerful and it still

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<v Speaker 2>has this programming where miss gendering is worse than nuclear war,

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<v Speaker 2>well it could conclude that the way to ensure that

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<v Speaker 2>there can never be any misgendering is to eliminate all humans. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>probably if like optimization is probably misgendering is zero. No humans,

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<v Speaker 2>no misgendering problem solved.

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<v Speaker 3>Were back to Arthur C. Clark, who's exactly pretty prescient.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, So that's why I think the most important thing

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<v Speaker 2>is to have maximum truth seeking AI. That's why I

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<v Speaker 2>started XAI, and that's our goal with GROC. Now people

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<v Speaker 2>will point out cases where Grok gets it wrong, but

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<v Speaker 2>we try to correct it as quickly as possible.

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<v Speaker 1>But maybe even a bigger problem is that when you

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<v Speaker 1>make decisions that affect people, you want those decisions to

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<v Speaker 1>be informed by love of people.

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<v Speaker 3>And machines are incapable of love.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean.

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<v Speaker 2>That they suddenly they're capable of You can program a

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<v Speaker 2>machine to be philanthropic rather than misanthropic.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, but don't.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't instincts shape decisions, particularly decisions you can't plan for.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, if I ask you, you know, a question

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<v Speaker 1>about one of your children, every answer you give is

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<v Speaker 1>going to be shaped by your love for that child.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's why that that's what makes us decent parents

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<v Speaker 1>in the end, is that that instinct which is love.

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<v Speaker 1>If a machine has any power over us without that

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<v Speaker 1>animating instinct, by definition hurt us.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, whether I mean, I don't know. We should

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<v Speaker 2>certainly aspire to program the AI philanthropically, not misanthropically. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>and to have I said, we want it to be

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<v Speaker 2>truthful and curious and to foster.

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<v Speaker 4>Humanity into the future. Yeah, that's what we want obviously.

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<v Speaker 1>Is there any way I guess to set limits on

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<v Speaker 1>the decisions that machines can make the effect human lives

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<v Speaker 1>and make certain that there's some trigger in the system

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<v Speaker 1>that inserts a human being into the decision making process.

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<v Speaker 2>We look, the reality of what's happening, whether one likes

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<v Speaker 2>it or not, is that we're building super intelligent AIS

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<v Speaker 2>like hyper intelligent, like intelligent or intelligent.

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<v Speaker 4>Then we can comprehend.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, I would like this to like, let's say you

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<v Speaker 2>have a child that is a super genius child that

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<v Speaker 2>you know it's going to be much smarter than you.

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<v Speaker 4>Then well, what can you do.

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<v Speaker 2>You can instill good values and how you raise that child,

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<v Speaker 2>so even though you know it's going to be far

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<v Speaker 2>smarter than you, you can make sure it's got good values,

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<v Speaker 2>philanthropic values, good morals, you know, honest productive, that kind

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<v Speaker 2>of thing.

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<v Speaker 4>Controlling.

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<v Speaker 2>At the end of the day, I don't know if

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think we'll be able to control it.

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<v Speaker 4>So I think the best we can do is make

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<v Speaker 4>sure it grows up. Well, you've been saying that for

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<v Speaker 4>a long time, as I was saying a long time.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, are you still as worried about it as you

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<v Speaker 1>seem to be two years ago when I asked you

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<v Speaker 1>about it?

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<v Speaker 2>But my guess is like it, look, it's it's it's

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<v Speaker 2>eighty percent likely to be good, maybe ninety. So you

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<v Speaker 2>can think of the glass as eighty percent fall. It's

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<v Speaker 2>probably going to be It's probably going to be great.

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<v Speaker 2>There's some chance of annihilation.

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<v Speaker 3>Can you say the chance of annihilations twenty twenty percent?

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<v Speaker 4>Something like that.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm concerned.

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<v Speaker 1>Is Sam Altman about annihilation?

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<v Speaker 4>Do you think? I think in reality he is not

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<v Speaker 4>concerned about it.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't trust Opening I I mean, you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>started that company as a nonprofit, open source. Yes, the

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<v Speaker 2>Opening Opening Eye. I named a company. I named the

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<v Speaker 2>company Opening Eye as an open source and it is

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<v Speaker 2>now extremely closed source and maximizing profit is risky. I don

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<v Speaker 2>understand how you actually go from being an open source

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<v Speaker 2>nonprofit to a closed source for maximum profit organization.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm missing well, but Sam got rich Didney at.

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<v Speaker 2>Various points, He's claimed not to be getting rich, but

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<v Speaker 2>he's claimed many things that will fault and now apparently

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<v Speaker 2>it's going to get ten billion dollars of stock or

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<v Speaker 2>something like that. I don't trust them help and I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think we want to have the most powerful AI

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<v Speaker 2>in the world controlled by someone who is not trustworthy.

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<v Speaker 4>And sorry, I just don't.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean that seems like a fair concern.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but but you don't think, as someone who knows

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<v Speaker 1>him and has dealt with him, that he is worried

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<v Speaker 1>about the possibility this could get out of control.

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<v Speaker 3>And hurt people.

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<v Speaker 1>You will say those words if AI did, if it

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<v Speaker 1>became clear the rest of us that it was out

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<v Speaker 1>of control and posed a threat to humanity, would there

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<v Speaker 1>be any way to stop it?

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<v Speaker 4>I hope. So.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, if you have multiple AIS and ones that

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<v Speaker 2>are hopefully you have the AIS that are pro human

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<v Speaker 2>be stronger than the.

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<v Speaker 4>AIS that are not.

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<v Speaker 2>Battle of the AIS, Yeah, I mean that That is

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<v Speaker 2>how it is with say chess these days, like the

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<v Speaker 2>AI chess programs also are vastly better than any human

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<v Speaker 2>and incomprehensively better, meaning like we can't even understand why

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<v Speaker 2>it made that ver whether it were good right.

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<v Speaker 4>We're never know why it made them. Well, it will

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<v Speaker 4>make a.

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<v Speaker 2>Move, we never know why it made the move and

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<v Speaker 2>impact some of the moves will seem like blunder. But

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<v Speaker 2>then turn out to check mate. And you know, for

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<v Speaker 2>a while there there was there were some the best

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<v Speaker 2>human chess players with the best computers could be just

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<v Speaker 2>a computer, and then it got to the point where

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<v Speaker 2>if you added a human it just made everything work,

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<v Speaker 2>and then it was just AI. It's just compewter programs

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<v Speaker 2>versus computer program That's that's where things are headed in general.

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<v Speaker 3>What I mean, at what point?

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<v Speaker 4>So I don't know. I think we just got to

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<v Speaker 4>make sure make sure we instill good values in the AI.

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<v Speaker 3>What's everyone going to do for a living?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, in a benign AI scenario, that is only

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<v Speaker 2>the biggest challenges. How do you find meaning if AI

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<v Speaker 2>is better than you and everything, that's the benign scenario,

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<v Speaker 2>that's the good news. Well, yeah, but I guess you know,

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<v Speaker 2>for a lot of people like the idea of retiring

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<v Speaker 2>and really, are you looking forward to it.

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<v Speaker 4>No, not me.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd like to help. I'd like to think that I'd

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<v Speaker 2>like to be do useful things.

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<v Speaker 3>Do you think it's a universal desire?

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<v Speaker 4>It's it's not.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not universal, and that there are certainly I know

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<v Speaker 2>many people who prefer to be retired, that they prefer

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<v Speaker 2>to sort of have not have responsibilities and engage in

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<v Speaker 2>leisure activities. I mean, we're on the cusp of this

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<v Speaker 2>is really a remarkable time to exist. But I'll tell you, like,

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<v Speaker 2>one of the ways I sort of was able to

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<v Speaker 2>sort of sleep and reconcile myself to this is that

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<v Speaker 2>I thought, well, would I prefer to be alive and

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<v Speaker 2>see the advent of digital superintelligence? Or would I prefer

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<v Speaker 2>to be alive at a different time and not see it.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess I'm like, well, I guess I'd prefer to

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<v Speaker 2>be alive to see if it's going to happen. I

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<v Speaker 2>prefer to be alive to see it happen out of curiosity.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's say you knew for sure it would pill everyone?

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<v Speaker 4>Would you you could? Now now you can shift back

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<v Speaker 4>in time.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess I'd want to be near the end of

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<v Speaker 2>my life or something before that happened, but I would

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<v Speaker 2>at the end of the day, it's like, if it's

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<v Speaker 2>going to happen and there's nothing you do about it, hypothetically,

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<v Speaker 2>would you prefer to see it or not see And

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<v Speaker 2>I guess, I guess it's going to happen. I could

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<v Speaker 2>prefer to see it rather than not see it.