Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles.
In this episode, we're going to pick up where we
left off with the Sarah Ransom deposition, So let's get
right back to it. Menager. Did you see any articles
about Virginia Roberts Ransom? Yes? Menager? Which articles did you
see about Virginia Roberts Ransom? I can't remember. It was
quite some time ago, Menager. What do you recall about it? Ransom?
She came forward, and I was It was a few
years ago that she came forward, and her story was
exactly the same as mine. I can't remember specifically what
article I read, but every single article I did read
during the duration of that time, she experienced the same
thing I did, So it was more or less the
same context, and it's the same story in all articles, really, Menager.
So you were reading these articles over the course of
a period of ten years, you think Ransom. Yeah, I
didn't pay much attention to it because I've spent the
last ten years trying to get over that experience, and
I've been frightened to come forward. Menager. And when you
read the articles, you noticed that there were details that
you thought were similar to your experience mcaulay objection, Ransom.
There were details that were exactly the same as what
I had experienced. Manager. Do you know whether anyone else
had brought lawsuits against mister Epstein? Ransom? No, Menager, did
you save any of these articles that you read? Ransom? Sorry?
Can you repeat that? Menager? Did you save any of
the articles that you read? Ransom? No? Menager? Where did
you grow up? Ransom? I grew up in South Africa.
I then finished school in Scotland. Manager, When did you
move to Scotland? How old were you Ransom? I was fourteen? Manager.
Did your family move to Scotland or just you? Ransom?
Just myself? Menager? Are you a South African citizen? Ransom? Yes? Manager.
Do you have a South African passport? Ransom? Well, yeah,
it was stolen. I'm reapplying for a new one. I
have to renew my South African passport. It was stolen
South Africa for you. Manager, So when did you get
that South African passport? Ransom? I can't remember. I've had
a South African passport my whole life. So Manager, and
when was it stolen? Ransom? I think it was twenty fourteen,
twenty fifteen, Menager. So you were born in South Africa,
you're a South African citizen, and you had a South
African passport your whole life. Have I got that right? Ransom?
Uh huh? Menager? Yes or no? Mister gergis objection to form.
You can answer Sarah Ransom, yeah, Manager. Did you also
have a British passport? Ransom? Yes? Manager. How did that
come about? Ransom? My mom's side of the family is British. Menager.
And when did you get a British passport? Ransom? I
think when I was about five, Menager. Do you have
dual citizenship Ransom, yes, Manager. And do you travel using
both passports? Ransom, It's really complicated. I only use my
South African passport when I enter into South Africa, so
that's the only time I use my South African passport.
Then other than that, I use my British passport for
all other transportation because South Africa you need like a visa.
It's really complicated. So I'm lucky I've got my British passport. Manager.
It's easier to travel on a British passport than a
South African passport, Ransom, Yeah, a lot easier, a lot easier. Menager,
All right. Did you have any other siblings growing up? Ransom? Yes, Menager?
How many? Ransom? I've got one real older brother, and
then I've got a half younger brother and a half
younger sister. Menager. Did you all grow up in the
same home? Ransom? No, Menager. Who did you grow up
with in the same home with? I don't need their name,
but just the people you just described, mister gergis objection
you can answer. Ransom. I grew up with my mom
and my stepdad and my brother and was just entering
boarding school. And then I live with my aunty and
uncle in Scotland. Manager and cousins Ransom, Yeah, and cousins
one cousin Manager. And how long did you attend school
in Scotland? Ransom? About three years? Manager. Did you graduate? Ransom?
I did? Manager. Is that the equivalent of our high school? Ransom? Yeah,
it is. Manager. Did you go to college? Ransom? I
went to university to study psychology and sociology. Manager. Where
did you go Ransom, Queen Margaret University in Edinburgh. Manager.
Did you graduate? Ransom? No? I did not. Manager. Did
you go to that college immediately after graduating from high school? Ransom? No. Manager.
When did you go to that college, Ransom two thousand
and four. Manager. And how long did you stay at
Queen Margaret College Ransom a year and a half. Manager.
Why did you leave college? Ransom? I chose the wrong course.
I didn't. I didn't really agree with what I was
being taught in sociology, so I quit. Manager. During the
time you were in college, did you work Ransom? Yes? Manager.
Where did you work? Ransom? I was a waitress at
a bar. Manager anything else? Ransom no Manager. Have you
ever been married? Ransom, No Manager. Have you ever been engaged? Ransom? Yes,
manager to whom redacted? Manager? Your current partner? Ransom, yes, manager?
Anyone else? Ransom, yes, I have manager. Who else have
you been engaged to? McCauley objection, gergis objection, Ransom, I
don't really see the relevance in that, McCauley. Who else
have you been engaged to? Ransom? Redacted? Manager? Was he
listed in your passport? Ransom? Yes? Manager? Anyone else? Ransom
listed on my passport? Sorry? Manager. Have you been engaged
to anyone else? Ransom? Oh, sorry, I've got a really
bad train. No, No, I haven't. Manager. During what period
of time were you engaged to or adacted Ransom? I
can't remember. Manager. Was it before two thousand and six
or after Ransom? After Menager? How long after Ransom? Three years? Manager?
Did you know mister redacted during two thousand and six Ransom?
It's redacted? Sorry, vaguely, vaguely we lost touch? Manager. When
did you lose contact Ransom in two thousand and six? Manager?
And when did you re establish contact Ransom two thousand
and eight? Manager? Do you go buy any other names Ransom? No? Menager?
Do you go by redacted online? Ransom? I don't think so.
I don't know menager on Twitter Ransom. I don't have
any social media platforms, so I can't remember, Menager. Have
you ever gone by redacted all one word on Twitter? Ransom?
I can't remember, Menager. Do you have any tattoos Ransom? Yes? Manager?
Where Ransom? One here indicating one on her arm and
I have one two three four? Where is the second one? Ransom?
I've got four? Menager? All right, just tell me where
they are Ransom. One is on my arm, one is
on my right hip, one is on my upper bikini line,
and one is on my right inner thigh. And I've
got one on my left side on my ribcage. Manager. Okay,
have you had them for a long time? Ransom, I've
had hang on two I have had for a long time. Manager.
Which ones are they? Ransom? The scorpion on my right
hip and my LEO symbol on my bikini line. Manager.
Have you ever obtained a college degree? Ransom? No? Menager,
have you ever gone back to college? Ransom? I have
tried to. I wanted to. Manager. When did you do that? Ransom?
When I moved to New York? Manager in two thousand
and six, Ransom? Correct? Manager, any other time? Ransom? Well? Recent?
I mean I'm going back to university next year, so
I'm currently relooking at colleges. I'm going back to do
my psychology degree. Manager where Ransom, I haven't decided yet
because I'm looking for an open degree. Well, sorry, home learning,
so I haven't found somewhere yet. But I'm currently going Well,
my aim is to go back to university and get qualified. Manager.
Between two thousand and six and today, have you applied
to any other colleges? Ransom? No? Oh, yes, sorry? Sorry?
Can you repeat the question? Sorry, Manager, he can read
it back, So the question gets read back and Ransom.
Answer is yes and yes. Manager. Okay, when did you
apply to colleges between two thousand and six and today? Ransom?
It was two thousand and six. Manager, is that fit? Ransom,
that's correct. Manager anywhere else? Ransom, no manager. Other than
working as a waitress at a bar during college in
two thousand and four, two thousand and five. What other
employment have you had? Ransom? I have worked in hospitality.
I've worked in super yachting. Those wealthy people that have
super yachts, I used to work for them. I have
done modeling and I can't remember any to this. Menager interrupts.
Did you have a modeling agent? Ransom? I did in
Scotland menager in college Ransom, yep, that's correct. Menager any
other time Ransom, no Menager. And what type of modeling
was that? Ransom? Just commercial menager? Print Ransom yep, Menager,
runway Ransom, yep, manager TV or ads Ransom, no menager
and all in Scotland Ransom, no Menager. Where else did
you model Ransom? New York? Menager? Anywhere else? Ransom, no menager?
London Ransom, Oh yeah, I did, Sorry, I did do modeling.
A bit of modeling in London. Menager. All right, when
did you do modeling in New York? Ransom? During when
I first arrived in New York in two thousand and six, Menager?
How much money did you make as a model, mister
gergis objection? Ransom, I can't remember, Manager. When did you
work in super yachting? Ransom? I can't remember about twenty eleven, Yeah,
about twenty eleven, Maxwell. And when did you work in hospitality? Ransom.
I've worked in hospitality my whole life. I have worked
in i' mean in hospitality. I've either done bar work, waitressing,
super yachting, Yeah, Manager, so on and off? Ransom, Yeah,
on and off Manager. And since you were an adult, Ransom.
And since I was an adult, I worked in corporate
jobs as well, Menager. Where did you work in corporate America? Ransom?
In South Africa? Menager? And just so I understand, you
lived in Scotland from the ages of fourteen to twenty two, Ransom,
that's correct, Menager. And then where did you move Ransom
to New York? Menager? And how long did you live
in New York? Ransom? About seven eight months, Menager? And
where did you move Ransom back to London? Manager, And
how long did you live in London? Ransom? Well, I
lived in the UK because I moved around a few times,
so I didn't just specifically live in London, but I
was in the UK about twenty twelve, Menager. And then
where did you move Ransom? I then went into the
super yachting industry, so I didn't. I lived on a
boat in Italy and south of France. Manager. Did you
work for a company? Ransom? I worked for a private
owner Menager on one yacht, Ransom on multiple yachts Menager?
And what was your job Ransom stewardess, stewardess. And then
I was a deccand manager with wine Ransom? Sorry, Menager,
what's a decand Ransom? A dechand McAuley de eck Ransom? Sorry, Menager,
Oh Dechand, I thought you were decanting wine. It's a
pretty good job, Menager. Who is the owner of the
ship Ransom? I'm not allowed to specify, Menager. Do you
have a confidentiality agreement? Ransom? I did sign a confidentiality
agreement when I started my employment. Manager And how long
were you employed in super yachting? Ransom? Two and a
half years Menager? Okay, and what did you do after that?
I moved back to Cape Town? All right, folks, So
we're gonna wrap up this part here and in the
next episode we'll pick up where we left off. All
of the information that goes with this episode can be
found in the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome
back to the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna
pick up where we left off with the Sarah Ransom deposition.
In the last episode, we left off with Sarah saying
that she moved back to Cape Town. Right back at
it with Menager asking questions once again. Question, okay, and
who did you live with when you move back to
Cape Town? Ransom myself? Manager? And how long did you
live there? Ransom? Four years? Manager? And you when did
you move after that? Ransom? December? Yeah, it was December
twenty fifteen. Sorry, it was December twenty fifteen. Manager. And
where did you move Ransom? I moved from Kaytown to London? Manager?
And how long did you live there? Ransom? Three months? Manager?
And then where did you move Ransom? Barcelona? Manager? So
in March twenty sixteen, Ransom, Sorry, no, just hang on, sorry,
I moved to Barcelona around June June last year, Manager,
twenty sixteen June Ransom, Yeah, Manager, you moved to Barcelona? Ransom, yeah. Manager.
When you came to the US you said that was
in two thousand and six, Ransom, correct? Manager? And who
did you come with? Ransom myself? Manager? And who paid
for the plane ticket? Ransom myself? Health manager. Why did
you come Ransom? I wanted to advance my career? Manager?
What year? Ransom? I wanted to go to FIT University? Manager.
Did you have a student visa when you came in
two thousand and six? Ransom no Menager. Had you applied
to FIT when you came to New York in two
thousand and six? Ransom, no manager. Did you have a
job when you came here in two thousand and six? Ransom,
No manager. Where did you stay when you got here
in two thousand and six? Ransom the Upper east Side
manager with whom Ransom it was just a housemate, house manager.
What was the person's name, Ransom redacted? Manager? How do
you spell redacted? Ransom? Redacted? Manager? And what's the last
name of redacted? Ransom? I can't remember? Manager, male or female?
Ransom male? Manager? How old Ransom? I think he was
in his forties. Manager, And how did you meet redacted?
I met redacted Javilla, I met him when? Why can't
I remember? I think, yeah, I was looking for an
apartment when I got here, so it was just like
we just kind of met on the Upper east Side,
and yeah, I said, I was looking for somewhere to stay. Manager.
Did you pay rent? Ransom? Yes? Manager. How much did
you pay Ransom? I can't remember, Menager. One thousand dollars
Gurgis objection. Ransom. I think it was less than that. Manager.
Did you have your own bedroom? Ransom? No? Manager was
redacted the only other occupant? Ransom? There was another guy. Manager.
Did you share a bed with anyone at that house? Ransom?
With redacted? Manager? Were you in a relationship with redacted? Ransom? No, Menager,
you slept in a bed with redacted in the apartment
on the Upper east Side, Ransom, that's correct, Menager. What
was the address of that apartment, Ransom? I can't remember. Manager.
Do you have any way of reaching redact? Did now? Ransom? No? No,
I don't Menager. Do you know approximately where in New
York it was besides the Upper east Side? Ransom? I
just remember it being the Upper east Side. I can't
remember the exact location, Menager, any of the cross streets. Ransom.
I went there the other day, and it looks it
looks familiar. I can't. I can't remember specifically, Menager. You
went to the apartment the other day, Ransom. No, I
didn't go to the apartment the other day. I went
to the Upper east Side yesterday the other day. Sorry,
but I can't remember where the apartment was, no, Menager.
Was it a walk up or a doorman or elevator
kind of building? Ransom? It was an elevator building. Manager.
Was there a doorman? Ransom? No manager? What floor were
you on? Ransom? I can't remember, Menager, And you don't
remember how you met redacted? Mister Gergis objection, Ransom. I
met loads of people during that time. I can't specifically
remember how I met every individual. Menager. And in the
same house there was redacted and another guy, Ransom. That's correct.
McAuley Objection mistakes to that. She's interrupted by Menager. Do
you remember the other guy's name? Ransom? I can't remember, Menager.
How long did you live with redacted and the other
guy Ransom? For a I think it was a couple
of months until I moved, Menager, And where did you move?
Answer to Jeffrey Epstein's apartment? Menager, What was the address
to that? Ransom? I think it was two thousand, sorry,
two five East. It was midtown somewhere. Menager. I'm sorry, what, Ransom.
It was sort of midtown. I'm not familiar with New
York because I haven't been here and I don't live here.
It was kind of midtown his apartment, Menager. Okay, Ransom,
if I recall, yeah, Menager, so it's two five East something, Ransom,
It's it's East something. It was the same It was
the same apartment building that redacted lived in, because we
lived in the same building. Manager. Did you live in
the same apartment? Ransom? No, Menager. Did you have your
own apartment? Ransom? Yes? Menager. How big was the apartment? Ransom?
It was massive, Menager. How many bedrooms did it have? Ransom?
I can't remember. I can't remember. I can't and she
gets cut off by Menager. Two or seven? Ransom. I
just I remember just the like the living room, and
it was very spacious. Menager. Can you draw a picture
of the layout of it? Ransom, I wouldn't remember the
layout there was I remember, like a pale blue decor. Menager.
And no one else lived there with you? Ransom? No, Menager?
And you don't know how many bedrooms Ransom, I can't
remember how many bedrooms there were? Menager. Was there a doorman? Ransom? Oh,
I can't remember, Manager. Was it a walk up or elevator? Ransom? Elevator? Menager?
What floor were you on? Ransom, I can't remember, Menager.
Approximately when did you move into this apartment? Ransom? It
was not long after I moved in with redacted, about
two months, I think about two months, I think roughly, Menager.
So you lived with redacted for about two months and
then you moved into this other apartment, Ransom, that's correct, Menager.
And how much were you paying for this new apartment? Ransom, Oh,
it was Jeffrey's. I didn't pay a single thing, Menager.
And who else lived in the apartment building? Answer? Quite
a gosh, a few, actually, I recall redacted. So they're
talking about the building on East sixty first Street here,
and this is a building that Epstein owned with his
brother Mark, and where a lot of these traffic girls
had apartments. So just for a little clarification, Menager, do
you know redacted's last name? Ransom? I can't remember her
last name or redacted's last name. Meninger, Okay, who else? Ransom?
There were a few other girls. I can't remember their names. Meninger,
none of them, Ransom, No, it was a long time ago, Menager.
What did they look like? These other women that you
can't remember? Ransom, I can't remember. There were so many,
There were so many girls, a constant influx of girls. Menainger.
How many McCauley objection, Ransom, I can't remember, Menager. Fifty
Gurgis objection, Ransom. I can't remember Menainger one hundred Gurgis objection, Ransom,
I can't remember, Menager. Can you say if it was
more than a thousand or less? Gurgis objection, Ransom. I
can't remember, Menager. You can't remember if it was more
than a thousand? Ransom. I can't remember. Gurgis objection. Macauley objection.
This is harassing Gurgis a injection. We're crossing a line here, Menager. Okay,
I'm asking if she can remember if it was more
than a thousand or less McCauley. But you haven't defined it.
You're not saying where in the apartment in general, when
she met Jeffrey, I mean to this, Menager cuts her off.
I'm asking her. She said there were so many women
that there were an influx in the apartment, and I'm
asking how many McAuley. She didn't say in the apartment.
Go back and look at the testimony, Ransom in the
apartment building, Menager, right in the building. How many females
did you meet in the building? Gurgis objection, Ransom. I
can't remember, Menager. And can you say it was more
or less than one thousand? Gurgis objection, Ransom, It was
less than a thousand girls, Menager. Was it less than
one hundred? Ransom? Yes, it was less than one hundred, Menager?
Was it less than fifty ransom? I can't remember, Menager?
Apart from or dacted. Can you name any other one
of the females that you met in the apartment building?
Gurgis objection, Ransom. I can't remember, Menager. Can you describe
any of them? Gurgis objection, Ransom. I can't remember, Menager.
Did you do any employment while you were here in
the US in the fall of two thousand and six?
Gurgis objection, Ransom, I did freelance modeling manager. Who did
you do that for? Ransom? Various photographers? Menager? Do you
still have the photograph still? Ransom? No? Menager. Do you
have a portfolio? Ransom? I used to have one. Manager.
Do you currently have a portfolio? Ms McCauley objection, asked
an answered, Ransom. Yeah, I got a couple. Manager. Where
are they Ransom at home? Menager in Barcelona? Ransom, that's correct, Menager.
Are they on a computer? Ransom? No. Manager. When you
came to the US in the fall of two thousand
and six, was there a limit on how long you
could stay here? Mister Gergis objection, Ransom, Yes, there was, Menager.
What was that? Ransom? It was a three month tourist
visa manager. Were you permitted to be employed while you
were here on a tourist visa? Gurgis objection. Hold on
a second here, Menager. I don't know what kind of
visa she was on. I'm just asking the question, Gurgis.
I don't know why her visa status is relevant or
why we're going to get into things that redacted might
be interested in. So I'm not going to have her
sit here and testify about whether she was complying with
immigration law or not. Menager, is she taking the Fifth Amendment? Gurgis,
I'm just not sure that you need to ask the question, Menager. Well,
I did ask a question. I want to know if
she was permitted on the type of visa she came
in on the fall of two thousand and six to
engage and paid work. Gurgis, Okay, now that I hear
the question, you can answer it if you know the answer. Ransom, No, Menager, no,
you were not permitted to do paid work, correct Ransom.
That's correct. Manager, you did paid employment while you were
here on the tourist visa, correct Ransom. I wouldn't quite say.
I mean, I kind of. I wasn't that great at it,
so I didn't make a lot of money doing modeling.
I was too fat, apparently, so I wouldn't say I
milked the bank there, Ransom, milk the bank with my
modeling career. Then sarcastically, she adds, amazing modeling career. Manager,
So you came over in order to further your education.
I think you testified to earlier. Correct Ransom. That's correct. Manager.
So while you were here during those three months, was
it three months, you said at first on the tourist
visa correct, Ransom, Yeah, Manager, When you were here those
first three months, what did you do to further your education? Ransom?
I started looking at universities or colleges, researching what was
the right one for me to go to. By that stage,
i've I've always been interested in the fashion industry, designing, clothes, designing,
and New York was, well, this is the place to
be for it. So yeah, I did quite a lot
of research on which university, what kind of people there were,
and etc. Etc. So, Manager, how were you supporting yourself
while you were living in New York during the three
month period after you initially arrived, Ransom, I had some savings. Manager,
was your family providing you any money? Ransom? No, Manager,
Apart from your savings, was there any other source of income?
During October or so of two thousand and six, Ransom
I did the occasional I guess job where I was
called to entertain or spend time with people, but that
was about it. Manager, What does that mean? Ransom? Well,
I don't really like to use the word per se
because you guys kind of in your legal minds have
it in a box of what you think it is.
But like once or twice, I was paid to spend
dinner with a gentleman during that time, Menager. And how
did you meet that gentleman Ransom? It was through an agency. Manager.
What was the name of that agency? Ransom? I can't remember, Menager.
Do you know where it was located? Ransom? No? Menager.
Do you know how much you were paid to spend
dinner with the gentleman Ransom? It depends on how long
the dinner was? Four? Menager? And what was the most
that you recall making for spending dinner with a gentleman
Ransom fifteen hundred? Manager. Did you engage in any sexual
relations with the gentleman Ransom? One? Yeah, once or twice,
but it was on my own accord. It was after
that time period had finished, Menager? What time period? Ransom?
My appointment, my dinner with them? Menager? Okay, Ransom, he
just happened to be really good looking. Gergis, it's been
about an hour. Maybe we can take five minutes, Menager. Sure,
So we're going to wrap up right here too, and
in the next episode we'll pick up where we left off.
The information that goes with this episode can be found
in the description box