Speaker 1: And I just turned around and I call ass out
Speaker 1: of there.
Speaker 2: I was done.
Speaker 1: I wasn't deal with them.
Speaker 3: The hypocrisy of the cult is one of the things
Speaker 3: that turned me.
Speaker 2: Away the quickest.
Speaker 3: When I turned my head lights on, it turned and
Speaker 3: looked at us. And one of the things I remember
Speaker 3: the most, where the eyes were glowing red.
Speaker 1: I see an orb of light.
Speaker 3: It is just circling these steps like it is waiting
Speaker 3: for me.
Speaker 1: And he begins to tell them that he saw UFO.
Speaker 1: They're basically like, what are you talking about.
Speaker 3: That's seven foot up on a tree, peeking around it,
Speaker 3: and that's where I saw.
Speaker 2: The top of the muzzle, noose and the eyes. As
Speaker 2: soon as I made eye contact with this thing.
Speaker 3: It don't like death. Welcome back, Cult listeners. This is
Speaker 3: Brandon with Tenfoil Tells bringing you another episode on this one.
Speaker 3: Today we're going to look into the red grid mark phenomena.
Speaker 3: If you're not familiar with that, it is a bunch
Speaker 3: of little red markings that come up to make some
Speaker 3: interesting patterns and shapes that people have been finding on
Speaker 3: their bodies. Today's episode is actually two episodes that I
Speaker 3: combined together from two different people that have had interviews
Speaker 3: with me. One is a researcher who has been studying
Speaker 3: the dream aspect to it, and the other one is
Speaker 3: an actual experiencer and he was one of the first
Speaker 3: interviews I'd ever conducted. Four ten foil Tells. It's definitely
Speaker 3: an interesting topic, one of the things that kind of
Speaker 3: got me interested in this whole podcasting thing and the
Speaker 3: phenomena in general. So I'm really looking forward for you
Speaker 3: guys to check it out. And if you're a fan
Speaker 3: of ten foil Tals, make sure to follow ten foil
Speaker 3: Tells wherever you listen to Cult of Conspiracy, So either
Speaker 3: on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, whichever program you're using to listen
Speaker 3: to podcast at, make sure to follow me there. I
Speaker 3: have been doing a new show with my friend ed
Speaker 3: Corilla every Thursday night live at nine pm Eastern Standard
Speaker 3: Time on YouTube called Seam Sus. We talk about all
Speaker 3: the weird conspiracies and things going on in the world
Speaker 3: and current events. If you're a fan of stuff like that,
Speaker 3: you may check out the tenfoil Tel's YouTube page. Again,
Speaker 3: that's every Thursday night at nine pm Eastern Standard time.
Speaker 3: You can also find seam Sus wherever you listen to
Speaker 3: podcast at just look for seam Sus and you can
Speaker 3: like and subscribe there too. You can also follow me
Speaker 3: around on social media Facebook and Instagram. There is an
Speaker 3: x as well, also a TikTok. I am currently finishing
Speaker 3: up my documentary, The Missisinobal Triangle. It should be available
Speaker 3: on certain platforms here in the near future. I will
Speaker 3: make sure to let everyone know that's interested in all
Speaker 3: the weird phenomena that goes on around here in my
Speaker 3: local area when that becomes a But on that note,
Speaker 3: we're going to jump into the conversations that I had
Speaker 3: with these fellas and I really hope you guys enjoy it.
Speaker 3: I like to take the time today welcome my guests
Speaker 3: to the show justin thanks for coming on here and
Speaker 3: talking with me about this. It's definitely something that I've
Speaker 3: just kind of stumbled across and find very interesting and
Speaker 3: figured started digging into it.
Speaker 1: Well. Thanks for having me on Red Gridmark phenomenon is
Speaker 1: definitely very interesting, especially if you're just being exposed to it,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure you have a lot of questions about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of stuff like that I've been
Speaker 3: just kind of going through and looking into and now
Speaker 3: some of the stuff that I've seen almost looks like, well,
Speaker 3: maybe someone late on something of this and that. But
Speaker 3: when I've gotten it further looking into certain ones, it's like,
Speaker 3: all right, I can't explain how like a child has
Speaker 3: this on their head under their hairline, is like, and
Speaker 3: I really hope the parent wouldn't be putting something on
Speaker 3: there to make this happen. I was like, but when
Speaker 3: you start messing with kids, that's where I'm like, all right,
Speaker 3: kind of are the parents doing something really going on?
Speaker 3: It's like, are you really crossing that line?
Speaker 1: Those are really good examples, especially like the forehead marks,
Speaker 1: because it's pretty easy to tell if your child like
Speaker 1: hit the trampoline head first, and obviously they weren't sitting
Speaker 1: on a bench with holes in it on their forehead,
Speaker 1: So it becomes really unexplainable. When you see cases like that,
Speaker 1: or some of the really complex marks that are the
Speaker 1: large circles with intricate patterns in them, it becomes really
Speaker 1: hard to explain. But you're right, that's a common critical
Speaker 1: analysis of them as well. Did you sit on a bench?
Speaker 1: What fabrics do you have? But once you kind of
Speaker 1: dig deeper into this phenomenon, you realize that it's remarkably consistent,
Speaker 1: and it displays an intelligence, especially for people to get
Speaker 1: the patterns on repeat, like myself, and you can start
Speaker 1: to predict when you're going to get them, which is
Speaker 1: really strange. And another interesting thing about the phenomenon is
Speaker 1: how many people get the exact same marks. So one
Speaker 1: of the most common ones you'll see is women, mostly women,
Speaker 1: frequently get a mark on their left wrist. So if
Speaker 1: you go through the group and you take a look,
Speaker 1: you'll see dozens and dozens of people reporting the exact
Speaker 1: same mark on their left wrist and they don't know
Speaker 1: how it got there.
Speaker 3: Now, is there something that I know? Like the question
Speaker 3: would be, well, they're wearing something that would cause us
Speaker 3: or they have like a reaction. But again, if you
Speaker 3: actually look into this, the patterns are all the same
Speaker 3: on certain things, and it's like, well, I it's a reaction.
Speaker 3: That's strange that everyone would be having the exact same
Speaker 3: reaction in the exact same pattern style. You think it
Speaker 3: would be a little bit different than what everyone else
Speaker 3: is having.
Speaker 1: Yes, And there's definitely pressure marks that you can replicate,
Speaker 1: usually with great force against like a grid advent or
Speaker 1: something like that. You can definitely do it. But the
Speaker 1: thing about the red grid marks is a lot of
Speaker 1: the times they're kind of just like that where they're
Speaker 1: below the surface of the skin, so there's no irritation
Speaker 1: on top, there's no pain. There's really no symptoms that
Speaker 1: go along with the red grid marks, except for some
Speaker 1: of the things we found, like strange dreams some people
Speaker 1: report having. I've never had them. But what's weird about
Speaker 1: the strange dreams is everybody will report that the subject
Speaker 1: of the dream has something to do with a strange visitor.
Speaker 1: So it might be an object, a relative that has
Speaker 1: passed on, but it's always like some sort of visitor.
Speaker 1: But back to the topic of it being in the skin.
Speaker 1: That is really interesting when you see it, like you said,
Speaker 1: on somebody's face, right, these pressure marks, how do they
Speaker 1: get there on people's faces? And then why do they
Speaker 1: happen repetitively in these same exact areas.
Speaker 3: I've looked into some stuff a little bit about it,
Speaker 3: and i just browse them through like the photo, some
Speaker 3: people's comments, and I've googled some stuff, which that really
Speaker 3: doesn't help matters because there's a lot of hair brain
Speaker 3: theories about people doing this for attention. I'm just like,
Speaker 3: I don't see why people will do it when I
Speaker 3: go back to the whole things with kids, like why
Speaker 3: would someone press something against their child's face?
Speaker 1: Okay, so yeah, it's so obscure that to do it
Speaker 1: for attention is not really a valid argument because you're
Speaker 1: going to post it on what our group and get
Speaker 1: two likes. It just doesn't make any sense. Plus, you're
Speaker 1: part of a waterfall of people with the exact same stuff,
Speaker 1: so it's not like you're really standing out at all.
Speaker 1: Let me tell you my story with the redgrid marks
Speaker 1: and how I came to such a conclusion that it
Speaker 1: needed to really have more eyes on it. So I
Speaker 1: believe it was twenty fourteen or twenty fifteen. I was
Speaker 1: at my friend's house and she said, what is on
Speaker 1: your neck? And I had on my left shoulder going
Speaker 1: all the way over the trap muscle and kind of
Speaker 1: down my back in a grady, and I had these large,
Speaker 1: probably half inch red dots and they were going up
Speaker 1: my neck, totally observable to anybody looking at me, and
Speaker 1: they seemed to have just suddenly showed up. So my
Speaker 1: friend said, what the heck is that? And I said,
Speaker 1: I have no idea. I don't know where it came
Speaker 1: from or what happened. So that was the first time
Speaker 1: I ever got the marks, and I googled them, and
Speaker 1: at that time there were maybe a handful of pictures
Speaker 1: of other people's red grid marks, which is what I
Speaker 1: stumbled upon. And there wasn't really anything, no communities, nothing
Speaker 1: on the internet about it at that time, just a
Speaker 1: sort of strange four or five cases. So as the
Speaker 1: years went on, I kept getting them, and my girlfriend
Speaker 1: would notice them on my back, and they moved from
Speaker 1: my shoulder and became consistent on my back, and I've
Speaker 1: had really undeniable patterns, like I had dots running all
Speaker 1: the way down my spine, which and they were very
Speaker 1: very dark, So it's not something that I slept on
Speaker 1: or sat on a bench. But I started to get
Speaker 1: a couple of times a year, and I started to
Speaker 1: notice that I got them on the last Saturday in May,
Speaker 1: so right as the last Saturday in May, it would occur.
Speaker 1: It didn't matter what time I would go to sleep,
Speaker 1: or if I would try to record it or whatever,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't get anything. But when I would go to sleep,
Speaker 1: I would get a mark on my back, so it
Speaker 1: would be I remember back then it was like hexagons
Speaker 1: or just patches of the red grid marks on the
Speaker 1: top left of my back or the lower right, or
Speaker 1: sometimes both. And this became so consistent that I knew
Speaker 1: exactly when I was going to get the marks. Even
Speaker 1: if you look up in the group some of my posts,
Speaker 1: I'll say, hey, it's this time of year again, We're
Speaker 1: going to see if it shows up, And of course
Speaker 1: a lot of the time it does, even though recently
Speaker 1: it stopped and the pattern changed, which is interesting. But
Speaker 1: for years I was able to predict when it would
Speaker 1: show up. And then I started to find other people
Speaker 1: in the group since I started it, and people started
Speaker 1: to snowball in that had the same things happening to them.
Speaker 1: They would get it either once a month in the
Speaker 1: exact same spots or in similar spots, or they would
Speaker 1: get it consistently, and they would never be able to
Speaker 1: predict when it was happening, but they would know they
Speaker 1: would get it again. So that's been my journey so
Speaker 1: far with it, besides just starting the group and kind
Speaker 1: of collecting massive amounts of data to see what's going on.
Speaker 1: But from my point of view, it's ex I mean,
Speaker 1: it may not be supernatural, right, but it's definitely a
Speaker 1: phenomenon that's happening. And it's unrelated to material objects in
Speaker 1: my opinion, because my habits are exactly the same. I'll
Speaker 1: go someplace new, I'll go on a vacation, I'll still
Speaker 1: get the marks. They'll be extremely present and like down
Speaker 1: my spine, even if I'm going to the beach. So
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like it's trying to be secretive. But
Speaker 1: it's also displaying really strong characteristics of intelligent timing, which
Speaker 1: is the most baffling thing, or intelligent placement, like on
Speaker 1: the left wrist over and over again.
Speaker 3: Have you ever had anyone like professional like doctor wise,
Speaker 3: like a dermatologist or anything look into it.
Speaker 1: No, it's hard to it's hard to jump to a
Speaker 1: doctor as soon as it happens. They also fade usually
Speaker 1: in two to three days. But there have been probably
Speaker 1: about a dozen or two dozen people in the group
Speaker 1: so far that have shown doctors, and it's always inconclusive.
Speaker 1: They don't know what it is, and so they can't
Speaker 1: usually rule on it if they have no idea what
Speaker 1: it is, but they always say, you know, come back
Speaker 1: if it gets worse, not sure what it is. One
Speaker 1: of them even joked one time and put aliens as
Speaker 1: a diagnosis. But yeah, yeah, great sense of humor there
Speaker 1: from that doctor. But that seems to be the general
Speaker 1: consensus is nobody really knows what it is, but it's
Speaker 1: not a problem because it never produces pain, scratchiness, swelling,
Speaker 1: anything like that.
Speaker 3: It's funny you mentioned the alien thing, because that's kind
Speaker 3: of what I keep coming back to, and that's how
Speaker 3: I've actually discovered it because I was in an alien
Speaker 3: abduction group and then somehow people have posted that and
Speaker 3: related that to their abduction. I was like, h so
Speaker 3: I started looking at that's how I come across the group.
Speaker 3: I was like, well, maybe there is more to this.
Speaker 1: So it's hard to rationalize that it's not some sort
Speaker 1: of advanced technology because it's obviously an artificial design, like
Speaker 1: you would see that humans would make, like a grid
Speaker 1: or a lattice, or they display a really good complexity,
Speaker 1: sometimes being in a circle a complete circle, or a
Speaker 1: line a straight line. So that's typically not something you
Speaker 1: would accidentally have happened to you. An articulated complex design
Speaker 1: perfectly pressed into you a thigh or something like that.
Speaker 1: But if I had to hypothesize, I've spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time thinking about this and looking at, you know,
Speaker 1: the effects, but I would think that it's some sort
Speaker 1: of long range radiation based or laser or some sort
Speaker 1: of technology that's radiation based. And I'm guessing, but I
Speaker 1: think that it's some sort of like communicative device. Whether
Speaker 1: it's taking data from the cells that it's interacting with
Speaker 1: or altering data, I don't know, but it seems like
Speaker 1: it would be a long range biopsy device if I
Speaker 1: had to guess. But hey, prove me wrong. That's what
Speaker 1: I'm always saying in the group. I would love to
Speaker 1: hear contrasting hypothesis is, but it's for me that's kind
Speaker 1: of the box that it sits in.
Speaker 3: I actually have an interview coming out on Tuesday in
Speaker 3: the next upcoming episode, and it's with a doctor from
Speaker 3: Greece and he's actually been looking into like, what do
Speaker 3: you to describe as alien im plants. People have been
Speaker 3: sending him stuff that they found in their bodies that
Speaker 3: are strange and I actually mentioned this to him about
Speaker 3: these red grid patterns, and he said he's seen some
Speaker 3: stuff about it too, And I'm bringing up his message
Speaker 3: right now to say what his hypothesis is. He said
Speaker 3: that his theory is there like a leftover burn from
Speaker 3: lying on a sterile tables, keeping self clean by use
Speaker 3: some sort of energy. If one part of your body
Speaker 3: presses too much on an area or stays that way,
Speaker 3: it too can get like a small burn pattern.
Speaker 1: But that's just I've heard that hypp for I think
Speaker 1: he's got to get he's got to roll up his
Speaker 1: sleeves and get into the phenomenon to see that it's
Speaker 1: definitely long range based. I have a survey that I
Speaker 1: put together. It's about sixty questions popular questions try to
Speaker 1: dispel some notions or urban legends kind of that we're
Speaker 1: floating around the group. So I got about one hundred
Speaker 1: and sixty two hundred people to take it over the
Speaker 1: last two years. And the data is really cool because
Speaker 1: some of the stuff that it shows is almost half,
Speaker 1: well a little bit less than half of the marks
Speaker 1: are probably happening during the daytime, which means that there's
Speaker 1: no break in time, there's no missing time, there's no
Speaker 1: there does doesn't seem to be any surface Like I'm
Speaker 1: pretty well familiar with aduction phenomenon right, missing time, seeing UFOs, visitations,
Speaker 1: strange dreams, stuff like that. And I think the only
Speaker 1: box that checks is strange dreams because they appeared during
Speaker 1: the daytime or while people are awake, not rarely, but
Speaker 1: enough for us to get a picture of what it
Speaker 1: looks like. So one woman reported that she was driving
Speaker 1: down the road at night and her left hand you
Speaker 1: get this left hand again, started intensely burning and then
Speaker 1: just stopped and she was like, what in the world.
Speaker 1: And she was driving at night, so she couldn't really
Speaker 1: see anything, but she pulled over when she got to
Speaker 1: the next shopping center gas station and turned on the lights,
Speaker 1: and she had the left wrist red gridmark on her hand.
Speaker 1: So there's also been a video of one showing up
Speaker 1: and that was really interesting because you could clearly see
Speaker 1: she didn't report burning, but you could see raised lines,
Speaker 1: like straight lines that formed in the skin. And believe
Speaker 1: it or not, this is in the exact same place
Speaker 1: on the left hand, the left wrist, and those straight
Speaker 1: lines like almost like veins in rows, lifted up out
Speaker 1: of her skin just a little bit like it was swelling,
Speaker 1: and then when it went back down she had the
Speaker 1: red grid mark pattern on her left wrist, So that
Speaker 1: to me shows me that I don't think it's an
Speaker 1: abduction related phenomenon. But you know, if extraterrestrials are interested
Speaker 1: in stuff like implants, and they're interested in biometric data,
Speaker 1: and this may be another way of obtaining it, who knows.
Speaker 3: I've kind of looked at it from is it something
Speaker 3: that we're doing to ourselves without realizing it? And possibly
Speaker 3: my thing is you keep mentioning a left wrist. Has
Speaker 3: anyone ever asked or looked into if these people have,
Speaker 3: like say, like an Apple Watch or any sort of
Speaker 3: digital device around like for this marks show up. Sometimes
Speaker 3: I'm thinking maybe like it's an electronic even they claim
Speaker 3: some of these films can put off like the heat
Speaker 3: from a phone or something, but I don't see how
Speaker 3: it would be a grid pattern or something like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we usually just let people self report.
Speaker 1: There doesn't seem to be like a prevalence of people
Speaker 1: that do wear anything and then get the mark. Most
Speaker 1: of people are like, well, I don't wear anything on
Speaker 1: that wrist, But don't let me dissuade you into thinking
Speaker 1: that the left wrist mark is the average, because it's
Speaker 1: not the data from our survey shows that overwhelmingly the
Speaker 1: average red grid mark happens in June most of the time,
Speaker 1: and it's on the upper or lower back, so that's
Speaker 1: where most of them are happening, probably like fifty to
Speaker 1: sixty percent of them. And the left grid mark or
Speaker 1: the left wrist one just I find really fascinating because
Speaker 1: it's a clear evidence that they use the exact same
Speaker 1: spot over and over again. And it's not like it's
Speaker 1: just randomly somewhere on the left wrist. It's kind of
Speaker 1: on the right side of the left wrist, extending up
Speaker 1: towards the index finger. And I'm sure you've seen the
Speaker 1: pictures in the group, but that's its exact placement. And
Speaker 1: you get so many people that get this mark, it's
Speaker 1: almost like a priority item for them to get it
Speaker 1: in that exact spot.
Speaker 3: I was looking into something and again this is happening
Speaker 3: to go through Google or whatever else, and someone was
Speaker 3: saying it's like a fungo bacterial thing. Someone said like
Speaker 3: ring worm. I was like, I've had ringworm when I
Speaker 3: was younger. It didn't look anything like this.
Speaker 1: No, it's I've seen there's a Mayo clinic thread where
Speaker 1: people have been discussing it for years and kind of
Speaker 1: going around in the circular arguments that are initially dispelled
Speaker 1: in our group, which is why the group is so fun.
Speaker 1: You can just throw those away. We all know it happens.
Speaker 1: And one of them in there is referencing this inflammation
Speaker 1: from a caterpillar that only exists in certain parts of
Speaker 1: the world. But again, it's like, yeah, that's nowhere near
Speaker 1: me or any of these people that are spread out
Speaker 1: all across the world, So it can't possibly be that
Speaker 1: happening over and over and over again. It's just no
Speaker 1: matter what, I haven't seen a good explanation for it yet,
Speaker 1: because no matter what explanation you have for it, you
Speaker 1: can rotate and get a different element. But what about
Speaker 1: the intelligent timing every year That doesn't explain the caterpillar
Speaker 1: hypothesis or you know, pressure from a bench or something
Speaker 1: doesn't explain the intelligent timing or the consistent placements. So
Speaker 1: I think whatever it is really doesn't want to be
Speaker 1: identified at all. And I think it makes me think
Speaker 1: because of the consistent timing and the complex shapes, that
Speaker 1: there's some purpose behind it. It's not accidental or fungal
Speaker 1: but that comes out of looking at probably thousands of
Speaker 1: cases at this point. Now, here's another interesting thing that
Speaker 1: just occurred to me that shows me that it's not
Speaker 1: an accident. So at times you can clearly see the
Speaker 1: shape of the mark, and you can clearly see that
Speaker 1: it was incompletely applied. So you'll have a circle, right
Speaker 1: is the intention of the mark with a dot pattern
Speaker 1: in the middle, and you'll see that they got the
Speaker 1: angle wrong or something, and so you only get half
Speaker 1: of the circle. And what they'll do if that happens
Speaker 1: is they reapply it and then you get the full circle.
Speaker 1: So to me, it shows that there can be error
Speaker 1: in application, which means that there is an intended application
Speaker 1: of this mark. If it was spreading from a fungal phenomenon,
Speaker 1: it wouldn't have to reapply itself twice and then shift
Speaker 1: over a little bit so it got the complete mark.
Speaker 1: It's definitely, no matter what way you look at it,
Speaker 1: artificial in origin in my opinion.
Speaker 3: And if it's reapplying itself, as shows there's some sort
Speaker 3: of intelligence behind it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and intention it has to be correctly applied.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's weird very much.
Speaker 1: So never gets any more normal with red goridmark. It's
Speaker 1: just a hole that keeps getting getting dug up without
Speaker 1: anything being found. Like, uh, oak Island.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I looked a little bit into Oak Island years
Speaker 3: and years and years ago. Then the TV show came
Speaker 3: out and I think it's I tried to watch that show,
Speaker 3: but I don't watch it anymore.
Speaker 1: But I had fun watching a couple of seasons, and
Speaker 1: then I was like this, this isn't going anywhere. If
Speaker 1: they find something, I'll read about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's kind of how I am like this time,
Speaker 3: Like it's I don't find it as entertaining that did
Speaker 3: like the first two seasons. But yeah, as far as
Speaker 3: the pattern stuff goes, like I can't wrap my brain
Speaker 3: around it because I know some people are, oh, they've
Speaker 3: set across from a drain and the pressure from the
Speaker 3: suction from the drain caused I was like, well, people
Speaker 3: would know if they were against a drain. And I
Speaker 3: still go back to like the little kid's faces and
Speaker 3: stuff like who would do that to their kid? Who's
Speaker 3: gonna put their kid on against a drain? You know,
Speaker 3: like that's I mean.
Speaker 1: Even if it is, even if there are people that
Speaker 1: either fake it or mistake it it's less than one percent.
Speaker 1: Most of the people in that group are only there
Speaker 1: because they're concerned about it, and they said, what the
Speaker 1: heck is this? And they start googling, and then they
Speaker 1: find resources for red grid mark and then they joined
Speaker 1: the group. So that's usually the pipeline by which it
Speaker 1: happens if somebody is genuinely interested, and they typically don't
Speaker 1: find the phenomenon unless they're having to google red grid
Speaker 1: marks on skin or something like that.
Speaker 3: Strangely enough, and it's not a grid pattern, but my
Speaker 3: daughter came home from school and this was on Friday,
Speaker 3: and she lifted her arm up and she's got like
Speaker 3: this big red, scrapish looking mark on her left upper
Speaker 3: arm up by her arm. And my wife's like, what
Speaker 3: did you do? She's like, what she's like on your
Speaker 3: bottle of your arm. She didn't even know it was there,
Speaker 3: and we got looking at it. I took a picture.
Speaker 3: I was like, it's not a grid pattery they have like,
Speaker 3: but that's very strange that she has no idea what
Speaker 3: it is and it looks like it's scraped and like
Speaker 3: her skid's like peeled on some of the stuff, and
Speaker 3: she has no idea what it's from. I was like, well,
Speaker 3: did you do something to school? She's like, no, I.
Speaker 1: Don't know luctually, because yeah, if you think it's an
Speaker 1: abrasion or something, you think you'd remember it from, you know,
Speaker 1: getting hurt or something.
Speaker 3: We'd like to do something to school anything. She's like, no,
Speaker 3: it looks like almost like a rope burn It's like,
Speaker 3: but it's long. It's like four or five inches long
Speaker 3: and about maybe two inches wide. Like it's a scrape
Speaker 3: right down towards her armbit like her she had her
Speaker 3: arm against something is scraped it, but she doesn't remember
Speaker 3: anything about it, Like it looks like it would hurt.
Speaker 1: I had a similar marking I was. I'm an occultist also,
Speaker 1: and I have been for fifteen years. Not that that's
Speaker 1: a regular thing with red gridmark people some of them are,
Speaker 1: but just a normal distribution and of new age people.
Speaker 1: But I'm heavily into evocation and working with goalletic demons
Speaker 1: and stuff, and I find them very pleasant, you know,
Speaker 1: not really anything worth being afraid of, as long as
Speaker 1: you're respectful, and I have a friendly demeanor about you.
Speaker 1: But anyways, I was working with one one time and
Speaker 1: I had a pleasant interaction with it. I had some
Speaker 1: good phenomenon happen. But when I left the shed and
Speaker 1: my temple shed set up and I went back insaiw It,
Speaker 1: I took off my shirt to get in the shower
Speaker 1: and I had like three long claw marks down my
Speaker 1: back and it was inflamed, like beneath the skin. But
Speaker 1: it didn't hurt and I didn't ram into anything and
Speaker 1: drag it all up my back. So I've definitely seen
Speaker 1: those marks before, and they're pretty interesting how they just
Speaker 1: randomly appear in very specific shapes. Maybe some sort of
Speaker 1: spirit interaction phenomenon.
Speaker 3: This gets a little off topic from the Red Grid,
Speaker 3: but I I do have something to bring up about
Speaker 3: this because he's mentioned the three scratch marks. We moved
Speaker 3: into our home a little over two years ago. In
Speaker 3: the first week that we were here, I felt like
Speaker 3: there was just something off, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 3: And it had been about two weeks afterwards. My wife
Speaker 3: and I laid in bed and our daughter, she was
Speaker 3: only about twenty months old at the time, was in
Speaker 3: the room across from us. So we have a baby
Speaker 3: monitor up and the blind in the house or the
Speaker 3: old pull down blinds like they roll up well it unrolled,
Speaker 3: is relaying. They're like, it just shot up real quick
Speaker 3: by itself, scared the crap out of us, and where
Speaker 3: he just kind of laughed it off. And then about
Speaker 3: five minutes later, through the baby monitor, we hear the
Speaker 3: word mine, like am I n E like mine?
Speaker 1: I don't like that.
Speaker 3: It was a man's voice, so we instantly went and
Speaker 3: got her out of the room. Well, she stayed in
Speaker 3: bed with us, and we just kind of kept her
Speaker 3: in our room for the next couple of days. But
Speaker 3: I got home from work and my wife was changing
Speaker 3: our daughter's clothes and across her back were very wide
Speaker 3: three scratch marks. And I don't piss around when it
Speaker 3: comes to my kids. So I went through the house
Speaker 3: and bretoned it whatever it was, basically call it a
Speaker 3: pussy for messing with a child. Basically said if you're
Speaker 3: going to do anything, come after me, leave my family alone,
Speaker 3: this and that, and honestly we've never had an issue
Speaker 3: since then.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you vanished it.
Speaker 3: I don't mess around when it comes to my children
Speaker 3: or my family in general. But like, I didn't want
Speaker 3: that happening in it, and I don't know what it was.
Speaker 3: Never had any issues before, but when you mentioned the
Speaker 3: three marks, like those three marks, it hadn't been done
Speaker 3: by either me or someone else with big hands because
Speaker 3: they were so far apart space that it's like the
Speaker 3: kids couldn't have done it, as she couldn't do it herself,
Speaker 3: she's a baby. But they were something that I wasn't
Speaker 3: about to mess with. So, yeah, you mentioned that I
Speaker 3: got a little off topic, but I felt.
Speaker 1: Like bringing that up, that's okay. I think We've got
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that we could talk about. I've
Speaker 1: got a similar story like that, but it's just the
Speaker 1: opposite where I had a invisible being rock my child
Speaker 1: to sleep and absolutely scared the mess out of my
Speaker 1: girlfriend at the time because there was genuine paranormal activity
Speaker 1: going on for the baby's benefit in the room. I'll
Speaker 1: have to tell you about that sometime.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So any more stories like that you got, we
Speaker 3: can always come back for another episode.
Speaker 1: Sounds like a plan.
Speaker 3: I want to keep this one more or less focused
Speaker 3: from the red grid. But when you brought that up,
Speaker 3: I just thought I'd something I wanted to share just
Speaker 3: while I was thinking about it. So, but as far
Speaker 3: as the patterns and stuff go, like again, I think
Speaker 3: there's something very real about this. But when I've mentioned
Speaker 3: to other people that, I was like, I'm going to
Speaker 3: look into this stuff, and they're like, the hell are
Speaker 3: you talking about? I was like, well, if you look
Speaker 3: into it, and they're like, what looks like they touched
Speaker 3: something or they got burnt by something, I was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: but it's strange to me that, Okay, say this is
Speaker 3: a man made pattern and they pressed up against it,
Speaker 3: how will they not realize that? They were like, you
Speaker 3: don't really know what you lean up against? Well, you know,
Speaker 3: burne your skin.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Once you become familiar with the phenomenon, it becomes
Speaker 1: easily dismissable the idea that a physical thing is leaving
Speaker 1: it on you, because why would you be the last
Speaker 1: weekend in May you're pressing up against something in the
Speaker 1: same place you pressed up against in the last three years,
Speaker 1: and then you're gonna do it every two weeks after that.
Speaker 1: It just doesn't make any sense, especially the reapplied marks
Speaker 1: as well. If you and on the face right, because
Speaker 1: on the face is the most obvious one. You would
Speaker 1: think people that get it on their faces or on
Speaker 1: their foreheads would remember pushing their head for a prolonged
Speaker 1: amount of time into a gritted surface. It's just in
Speaker 1: the group, we don't really allow the discussion of that,
Speaker 1: and people are kind of critical of that sometimes, but
Speaker 1: usually it's because they have no experience at all with goodmark.
Speaker 1: And if you're somebody that gets them constantly or your
Speaker 1: kid is constantly getting them, you know that it's not
Speaker 1: from the betting that they're sitting on or sitting on
Speaker 1: gritted or dotted benches and chairs. We just know already
Speaker 1: in our life experiences, and so we come together in
Speaker 1: that group to move forward from there, not dealing with
Speaker 1: those same arguments over and over again. But you'll get
Speaker 1: that anytime. And I think that's why a lot of
Speaker 1: people dismiss it outright without taking a look at the
Speaker 1: sixteen thousand people that it's happening to in the red
Speaker 1: Gridmark group.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if there's that many people that are experiencing it.
Speaker 3: And this is what I go back to. What I
Speaker 3: think for all the stuff that I do stories on
Speaker 3: or let people talk about, is all these people have
Speaker 3: very similar story worries when it comes to their abduction. Now,
Speaker 3: some are completely different than others, and you're just kind
Speaker 3: of like, Okay, but even like the Sasquatch side and
Speaker 3: stuff that there's so much consistency, like to what people
Speaker 3: are seeing and saying like, I don't know what people
Speaker 3: are seeing. I haven't seen it myself, so it's just
Speaker 3: kind of be taking people's word for it. But I
Speaker 3: do believe that they believe what they're seeing is true.
Speaker 3: It's true to them. So when it comes to this thing,
Speaker 3: if there's sixteen thousand people in a group, it's really
Speaker 3: hard to think there's that many people just trying to
Speaker 3: do this for something like you said, attention for what
Speaker 3: purpose a couple of.
Speaker 1: Years, or misunderstanding something that's happened that everybody all throughout history.
Speaker 1: You know, it's, oh, this is just new and novel,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's uh, it's definitely not a made up phenomenon.
Speaker 1: It's very real. And that's the most interesting thing about
Speaker 1: it because I think a lot of it comes from
Speaker 1: the idea that, oh, well, you know, it's it's supernatural.
Speaker 1: It's very mysterious, so it has to be paranormal or something.
Speaker 1: But even if it is just a regular medical condition
Speaker 1: that's unexplained, it's still a valid medical condition. You've got
Speaker 1: thousands of people that this is happening to and it
Speaker 1: only started, in my opinion, recently. It's I think within
Speaker 1: the last decade or two. As it only really started.
Speaker 1: You would think there would be a lot of capturing
Speaker 1: of it if it had been consistently happening, but maybe
Speaker 1: people just didn't report it. But it definitely seems to
Speaker 1: have been increasing in volume every year over the last
Speaker 1: wall since I've had it, definitely so decade.
Speaker 3: And that's kind of where I was going back to
Speaker 3: with the whole electronic thing, since within the last decades
Speaker 3: cell phones have become a lot more everyone has one.
Speaker 3: Like I'm not going to go on the whole five
Speaker 3: G conspiracy because clearly it's something for someone else to
Speaker 3: root around with. But I've always wondered, like, we have
Speaker 3: all these signals, we have all the electronics we don't know,
Speaker 3: like these lithium batteries, or they put out some sort
Speaker 3: of a sonic signal that's causing some sort of like
Speaker 3: reaction of people's skins. Like I know people have gotten
Speaker 3: burnt from my cell phone being in their pocket, like
Speaker 3: the phone battery melted or whatever. I was like, clearly
Speaker 3: this is not happening, because again, you got stuff on
Speaker 3: the foreheads, you got stuff on your back, You're not
Speaker 3: gonna have your phone on your back, so you can't
Speaker 3: really go that route. But I was just thinking out loud,
Speaker 3: like maybe it does have something to do with the
Speaker 3: technology we're using.
Speaker 1: It might be it's it's kind of matched in volume,
Speaker 1: like more and more people are getting it. So I
Speaker 1: could definitely see how you would look at, you know,
Speaker 1: the increase in three to five G and say, hmm,
Speaker 1: well it's increasing in volume at the same time that
Speaker 1: this phenomenon is increasing in volume, And it's definitely a correlation.
Speaker 1: But I don't think they're related because again, the aspects
Speaker 1: of intelligent timing, and we know what people with radiation
Speaker 1: burns look like, so it can't just be a radiation burst,
Speaker 1: and we don't ever see people like around sher Nobyl
Speaker 1: when a lot of people were afflicted very fast. We
Speaker 1: never saw any dots or grids. So if it is something,
Speaker 1: it's got to be a complex interaction that we just
Speaker 1: have no idea about, or some sort of weaponization of
Speaker 1: things that are radiation based. So I could see that
Speaker 1: more probably than I could see it being an accident,
Speaker 1: because I don't think it's an accident.
Speaker 3: Just in your opinion, what do you think is causing
Speaker 3: these or do you not have like your own opinion
Speaker 3: of what it is.
Speaker 1: I would refer back to what I said earlier when
Speaker 1: I just said that it's some sort of long range
Speaker 1: radiation or maybe laser based, probably biopsy device. That would
Speaker 1: be my guess. But it would be dishonest for me
Speaker 1: to try to say that I have the answers, because
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody has the actual information about where
Speaker 1: it comes from. However, there are many people who try
Speaker 1: to explain it away with either supernatural deductions or psychic
Speaker 1: deductions or conspiracy theories, and I just can't buy that
Speaker 1: because I've got so much evidence of the phenomenon happening.
Speaker 1: I don't feel like the solution is going to be
Speaker 1: a psychic cancer. But I'm happy to be wrong.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Again, I don't think anyone really has a definitive answer.
Speaker 3: I agree to that, but it's definitely something that is happening. Well, yeah,
Speaker 3: there's no way just to write it off like, oh,
Speaker 3: the people are just doing it themselves, or they're brushing
Speaker 3: against stuff. Like I'm looking around out here in my
Speaker 3: garage and I see grid patterns on a lot of things,
Speaker 3: like right in front of my face as a grid
Speaker 3: pattern on my like the pop filter on my microphone. Now,
Speaker 3: if I was to sit here and press my face
Speaker 3: against it really forcibly, for like five minutes, I'm sure
Speaker 3: i'd have a grid pattern. But to these people that
Speaker 3: have no idea where they come from, you would know
Speaker 3: if you're pressing your face up against something like this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not only that, I think to replicate the red
Speaker 1: grid mark, and for people who haven't seen it, this
Speaker 1: will give you a better impression of what it looks like.
Speaker 1: You'd have to cut off blood flow to the skin
Speaker 1: so that you end up with like a little blood
Speaker 1: bruise in those dots shapes. So I think somebody tried
Speaker 1: to do it in the group, and it took them
Speaker 1: like forty five minutes of hard pressing against a metal
Speaker 1: dotted surface to get something that was lightly similar to
Speaker 1: red grid mark. But you're right, like, nobody's gonna violently
Speaker 1: press themselves into a grated bench for forty five minutes
Speaker 1: and be like, well, that's so strange. I've got a
Speaker 1: dotted red mark in the exact same place I was
Speaker 1: violently leaning against the bench. You just would remember. And
Speaker 1: then the face ones.
Speaker 3: Of course, that's that's the most bizarre to me, is
Speaker 3: like the face things. I can understand if you're leaning
Speaker 3: against something and you don't realize that and maybe it
Speaker 3: does press against your back or something that you're not
Speaker 3: thinking about. But the face, there's no way of not
Speaker 3: knowing your faces up again something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of an example of the exceptions prove
Speaker 1: the rule, because like when I went to this vacation
Speaker 1: place in Destin, Florida, and my first night there, I
Speaker 1: had a very strong line of dots, just single dots
Speaker 1: in a line. There was no grid, it was just
Speaker 1: a line, and it was just to the left of
Speaker 1: my spine going all the way down. So the idea
Speaker 1: that maybe I slept on something wrong is just silly.
Speaker 1: It matches my spine and goes all the way down
Speaker 1: my back. I mean obviously with that little pressure points,
Speaker 1: it would have been painful and I was in a
Speaker 1: bad I mean, there's nothing in there that's going to
Speaker 1: cause that. So the exceptions really help you see that
Speaker 1: it's not something material if it's on your face, if
Speaker 1: it's in a strange pattern like right down in your
Speaker 1: spine or a hugely complex pattern, like a seven sided
Speaker 1: star within a circle that's on your leg. Obviously you
Speaker 1: would have something that matches that. And ninety nine percent
Speaker 1: of the time that's just not the case.
Speaker 3: I said, looking at some of the patterns that I've
Speaker 3: seen on things, they're definitely not just like random. Some right,
Speaker 3: some are, but a lot of them there's like they're
Speaker 3: all like this, not the same, but like the same
Speaker 3: space scene between each other, like they're all equal distance
Speaker 3: as apart. They make a design, it's almost like again
Speaker 3: it's intentional. It has intelligence because it's not just some
Speaker 3: random splotches here and there, like there's some sort of
Speaker 3: intelligence behind it because it had to make it artificially,
Speaker 3: make this design.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the design seemed to be important. I don't know why,
Speaker 1: but you know, you see a lot of unclear designs
Speaker 1: where it's just like a group of dots in the
Speaker 1: same places over and over again. But then you do
Speaker 1: see these rare cases, and I think two of them
Speaker 1: on the legs and one would just got posted where
Speaker 1: it was on the guy's back, but you can see
Speaker 1: the entire design and it's clearly complex, like the seven
Speaker 1: sided star inside of a circle, with more dots going
Speaker 1: around a quarter of it. That's just a bizarre pattern.
Speaker 1: In general, you would have to try to replicate that
Speaker 1: and it would hurt.
Speaker 3: This is another one of those things I kind of
Speaker 3: come across and I I'm throwing my own little tinfoil
Speaker 3: hat on here, thinking of tying things together. But now
Speaker 3: there's been some pretty intricate crop circles. Yeah, some of
Speaker 3: these crop circles have some of the patterns that I'm
Speaker 3: not going to say they're the exact same patterns that
Speaker 3: people are gidding, but they are similar.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I've seen that too, especially that seven sided star one.
Speaker 1: I've seen that same. Like, I literally have seen the
Speaker 1: same structure in a crop circle photo and I think
Speaker 1: I had posted it in that thread too. It was
Speaker 1: definitely the same design, but that one, of course was
Speaker 1: composed of dots. It was different. But it's just interesting
Speaker 1: to think, you know, you get the big picture of
Speaker 1: what this tool looks like when you get those marks
Speaker 1: like that, and we do see similarities other places of
Speaker 1: extraterrestrial phenomenon, it's hard to ascribe it to anything other
Speaker 1: than extraterrestrial because of the high level of technology that
Speaker 1: would be needed to make a mark. Like that on
Speaker 1: somebody over a long distance.
Speaker 3: Yeah. That was the other thing I was thinking too,
Speaker 3: is like if they're trying to communicate and make these circles,
Speaker 3: which I don't know, if that's what they're communicating about.
Speaker 3: We don't. No one really knows. It's all just guessing
Speaker 3: at this point. But if they're doing it out in
Speaker 3: fields and stuff like that, maybe this is just their
Speaker 3: next step of trying to get our attention. Maybe I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're not noticing the ones in the field. We'll
Speaker 1: just zap them. They can't ignore that.
Speaker 3: The sad part is a lot of people are like,
Speaker 3: when I brought this up again, like this seems most
Speaker 3: people don't know what I'm talking about. So, like I said,
Speaker 3: that's kind of why I want to do this episode,
Speaker 3: is because I kind of want to bring more light
Speaker 3: to it. Even though I'm not some huge podcaster with
Speaker 3: like millions of followers or anything like that little low
Speaker 3: key guy here, But I think this is definitely something
Speaker 3: that needs more attention brought to it because it is
Speaker 3: one of those phenomenons that's like, clearly there's something true
Speaker 3: behind it, something's really happening. So for people to instantly
Speaker 3: just write it off as kind of stupid in my opinion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. I mean it's such a like I
Speaker 1: grew up and I was very interested in extraterrestrials and stuff,
Speaker 1: and you'd always be like, oh, I wish there was
Speaker 1: a scrap of evidence to go along with that case.
Speaker 1: You know, if there was radiation on the ground, like
Speaker 1: you know, where saucers have landed, sometimes there will be
Speaker 1: radiation that affects the gross of trees and stuff, and
Speaker 1: that's such a valuable nugget of information. And then I
Speaker 1: feel incredibly privileged to be involved in this phenomenon that
Speaker 1: just has an overwhelming amount of evidence that something genuinely
Speaker 1: mysterious is going on. And we're kind of a low
Speaker 1: key phenomenon too, So it's always a pleasure to reach
Speaker 1: out and try to explain, you know, my journey with
Speaker 1: seeing this e al from three or four pictures on
Speaker 1: the internet to sixteen hundred people that don't know what's
Speaker 1: going on. But it's growing surely, slowly but surely. We
Speaker 1: just made a discussion and Speculation group because the rules
Speaker 1: in the group are a little too restrictive for a
Speaker 1: lot of people's tastes. They want to speculate, and so
Speaker 1: we just made a sister group so that people could
Speaker 1: kind of join in on the public discussion of what
Speaker 1: this is, because we've got enough evidence now to where
Speaker 1: it's clearly a bona fide mysterious phenomenon. We've even got
Speaker 1: data coming out of the survey which you should take
Speaker 1: a look at in the file section of the group.
Speaker 1: A lot of fun, but no matter what, it's always
Speaker 1: it always comes back to this is just something so
Speaker 1: bizarre in its origin that none of us can fathom
Speaker 1: what it is. None of us can come up with
Speaker 1: any experiments to truly replicate the marks, and it's baffling
Speaker 1: all the time. It never gets any better, It always
Speaker 1: gets more mysterious, even though you collect more and more data.
Speaker 3: Has anyone that you're aware of ever checked the area
Speaker 3: where they have the bars to see if there's like
Speaker 3: any sort of trace radiation from those marks or.
Speaker 1: Yes, there was somebody that had a Geiger counter and
Speaker 1: that checked their marks and there was nothing. And I
Speaker 1: want to say that there was a few other like
Speaker 1: two other people that did that too, enough for me
Speaker 1: to go, okay, well it's not radioactive and any higher
Speaker 1: amounts that you would get from background radiation. So if
Speaker 1: it is radioactive, then it's not any more than the
Speaker 1: surrounding background radiation, which would be a problem if it
Speaker 1: was right, because if it was constantly blasting it with
Speaker 1: radioactive gusts, you'd probably develop a medical condition, I would think,
Speaker 1: which is something you do see sometimes in like abduction
Speaker 1: cases and stuff like that. But it doesn't seem to
Speaker 1: be that way. There doesn't seem to be medical conditions
Speaker 1: coming from this phenomenon, and in fact, never happened to me.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm in good health, but a lot of
Speaker 1: people have reported that they would. Not a lot, but
Speaker 1: a couple of people have reported that they would get
Speaker 1: marks on their knee and their knee would spontaneously start healing,
Speaker 1: or that they got marks during times of intense illness,
Speaker 1: like when they got COVID they would get the marks.
Speaker 1: So I thought that was interesting. Who knows, right, if
Speaker 1: it's just a correlation or something directly related, But I
Speaker 1: get the feeling that they are interested in collecting data
Speaker 1: off of unique situations and conditions and how it relates
Speaker 1: to our biology. Probably, but that's just a complete hypothesis
Speaker 1: by anything.
Speaker 3: I was just thinking about something and has anyone ever
Speaker 3: looked into the blood types of each person that's encountered.
Speaker 1: This excellent question. Yeah, so on our survey, we took
Speaker 1: a we asked them what is their blood type? And
Speaker 1: there's no correlation whatsoever. It's it's a completely normal distribution.
Speaker 3: Okay. I was just thinking about that for a second.
Speaker 3: I was like, I wonder if this all ties into
Speaker 3: they're all having a certain type of blood type. But
Speaker 3: I guess that rolls that one out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was on the minds of everybody before I
Speaker 1: made that survey, and I said, let's see, let's let's
Speaker 1: check it out if we all I don't have RH negative,
Speaker 1: but that was a popular theory for a while. We
Speaker 1: all have RH negative blood types.
Speaker 3: No, I honestly couldn't even tell you what mine is.
Speaker 1: Mine is A or O. I don't I'm not sure
Speaker 1: exactly what it is.
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure mine's B, but not one hundred percent positive.
Speaker 1: So but yeah, I've got a lot of questions like
Speaker 1: that in the red grid mark survey, and then I've
Speaker 1: got questions to see how many people are experiencing something
Speaker 1: that's not redgrid marks, such as what symptoms are you
Speaker 1: having with the marks such as pain, inflammation, itchiness. So
Speaker 1: I know about how many people are experiencing something that's
Speaker 1: not red grid mark, because red grid mark never has
Speaker 1: any symptoms associated with it.
Speaker 3: Ever.
Speaker 1: It's always just beneath the skin, like a radiation burn,
Speaker 1: but with no symptoms.
Speaker 3: But whether it being beneath the skin, if you run
Speaker 3: your hand across, so you don't feel like any raised
Speaker 3: skin or any irritation or anything like that.
Speaker 1: Not at all. It's just like a blood blister, like
Speaker 1: you know, if you pinch your skin and you get
Speaker 1: some blood pooling beneath the surface of the skin. It's
Speaker 1: real bright. It's like that, but it's organized of course
Speaker 1: into dots and grids. But when they first show up,
Speaker 1: I mean it's just like I'm sure we've all inched
Speaker 1: ourselves really hard and gotten that bright red mark beneath
Speaker 1: the surface of the skin with no swelling. When they
Speaker 1: start off, they can be really dark red, I mean,
Speaker 1: very prominent to where obviously something has happened, and then
Speaker 1: in about two to three days, just like a sunburn
Speaker 1: or something, it would clear up. And you know, interesting
Speaker 1: story here, maybe somebody can get something from this. But
Speaker 1: I got a red grid mark just the summer, and
Speaker 1: I was going to the beach every day, and I
Speaker 1: was trying to get my tan on because I was
Speaker 1: just trying to live more naturally and get more light.
Speaker 1: And I work right by the beach, so this was
Speaker 1: really fun. I went out to the beach, I knew
Speaker 1: I had a red grid mark, and I still was
Speaker 1: spending about forty minutes in the sun each day getting
Speaker 1: my tan on right, And as I got a little
Speaker 1: bit sunburnt, the mark stayed around for about a week
Speaker 1: and a half. So because there was so much damage
Speaker 1: to the area, it couldn't feel that fast, and so
Speaker 1: I ended up preserving the mark for a little longer
Speaker 1: than I would have by getting a white sunburn. I
Speaker 1: thought that was kind of interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's at least something to think about on that one.
Speaker 3: So has anyone else reported anything, like if they've been
Speaker 3: out to get a sunburn, But that area itself does
Speaker 3: not change, like like it in between, Like the pattern
Speaker 3: does that stay the same? Like no one's had any
Speaker 3: discoloration between their patterns, like where the dots are or anything,
Speaker 3: or is it all No one ever really looked into that.
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of like a tattoo, like you
Speaker 1: get that specific burn and that layer of skin, and
Speaker 1: of course it starts the healing process or blood pools
Speaker 1: to it or something you know, just like a normal
Speaker 1: like a radiation burn or a sunburn, and and anything
Speaker 1: that happens after that affects the whole skin. So if
Speaker 1: you were to get a sunburn, it doesn't do anything
Speaker 1: different than normal. It'll just sunburn the whole skin. But
Speaker 1: it's close to wherever you get a sunburn at, like
Speaker 1: that initial irritation, or maybe where you a tattoo would
Speaker 1: come to rest in your skin. It's somewhere beneath the
Speaker 1: surface of the skin.
Speaker 3: Has anyone seen what layer of the skin that it's
Speaker 3: usually on, So I think there's six or seven layers
Speaker 3: of skin. I think has anyone had anyone look into that.
Speaker 1: No, we'd have to get a dermatologist to look at
Speaker 1: it right as it happens. But maybe with the sunburning
Speaker 1: solution we can get a little bit extra time and
Speaker 1: get somebody to a dermatologist. But we'll just have to see.
Speaker 1: But it's hard to predict a lot of people don't
Speaker 1: know when it's going to show up, which is the
Speaker 1: hard part about getting to a dermatologist. And then following
Speaker 1: that if it even take you seriously and look at it.
Speaker 1: But no, I would imagine it's I don't know wherever
Speaker 1: the sunburn happens, because it kind of to me looks
Speaker 1: like a radiation burn. Like that's the easiest way to
Speaker 1: describe it is if you've got a radiation burn through
Speaker 1: a metal panel with dots in it, that's kind of
Speaker 1: exactly what you would have with red gridmark. But you
Speaker 1: don't get any serious symptoms like you know, pain, itching, swelling,
Speaker 1: none of that. It's perfectly calibrated.
Speaker 3: Reported any like nause or headache or anything with it either.
Speaker 1: Very rarely but not enough to be anything other than normal.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just I'm just trying to think what it
Speaker 3: could be, or what the size would be, or what
Speaker 3: even how does it choose who it's choosing, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean? Like, there's got to be some sort
Speaker 3: of way of them choosing with who they're choosing. If
Speaker 3: it is intelligent, like why this person? Why you? Why that?
Speaker 3: Or something like, there's got to be something to correlate
Speaker 3: with it. But if it's all just random and it's
Speaker 3: just strange that everything's just.
Speaker 1: Random, they it does seem random. But you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's almost too normal, right. Everything about this distribution is
Speaker 1: completely normal, completely average. So it seems like, you know,
Speaker 1: they if I had to guess, I'd say they're doing
Speaker 1: data collection and they want a wide and varied amount
Speaker 1: of data as far as you know, people with medical conditions,
Speaker 1: people that are extremely healthy, or people with these genetic
Speaker 1: components and people without these genetic components or whatever. I
Speaker 1: would think that if it's a biopsy device, that they're
Speaker 1: either manipulating DNA or extracting data about the physiology based
Speaker 1: on what comes back on the device. When I was
Speaker 1: investigating red gridmark phenomenon, I had posted it in a
Speaker 1: couple of places online and I had one guy who
Speaker 1: worked with lasers, and he said, it's really interesting because
Speaker 1: it looks like a holographic diffraction of a laser, so
Speaker 1: it would create grid patterns if you difract a laser
Speaker 1: or holographic patterns. And he said there was recently some
Speaker 1: research published where a lab had created a UV ray
Speaker 1: that could penetrate a specific layer of the skin based
Speaker 1: on how it was calibrated, and it could burn that
Speaker 1: and the theoretical application of this technology could be bringing
Speaker 1: back data on specific levels of the skin after damaging
Speaker 1: them with the laser, and you could return data somehow
Speaker 1: using that, And I posted that in the group and
Speaker 1: that kind of shaped my opinion about My guess on
Speaker 1: the mark is that if we are kind of flirting
Speaker 1: with this technology and it's not really possible yet, you know,
Speaker 1: if there's a one hundred or two hundred year difference
Speaker 1: in technology, then you of course could biopsy sells with that,
Speaker 1: I'm sure, And that's kind of looks like what we're
Speaker 1: seeing here in my opinion, if.
Speaker 3: It is something that man is doing themselves. It would
Speaker 3: also make sense to me that if it is some
Speaker 3: top secret research that they're doing for some sort of
Speaker 3: weaponized stuff. Of course we won't know about it because
Speaker 3: whatever the militaries are doing, they don't it's never opened
Speaker 3: to the public of whatever they're tested out or whatever
Speaker 3: they're doing.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 3: I don't know what they'd be using it for unless
Speaker 3: I get it it would be something like to weaponize whatever.
Speaker 3: But it's strange to go down that rabbit hole thinking
Speaker 3: the government's doing this to us, Like, at the end
Speaker 3: of the day, no one really knows what's causing it, so.
Speaker 1: Be somebody's doing it, and they've got advanced technology. But
Speaker 1: it's not like FTL drives or alien spacecraft. It's it's
Speaker 1: slightly more advanced than what we have now, but maybe
Speaker 1: a lot more. We don't know because we don't have
Speaker 1: access to the technology. All we see is the imprints
Speaker 1: that the tool leaves. We only see the tool marks,
Speaker 1: but never the tool.
Speaker 3: And then just not even knowing what it's like, what
Speaker 3: it's even doing is the most concerning thing that I
Speaker 3: would have about it. As far as to discover this
Speaker 3: on me, I was like, Okay, why me? And I
Speaker 3: feel like it hasn't done anything to me, But again,
Speaker 3: what does it really doan?
Speaker 1: Yeah, what the intention here? Are they just collecting data
Speaker 1: or are they altering things? Which would be problematic of course,
Speaker 1: but we don't know. Yeah, but it doesn't seem like
Speaker 1: anybody develops conditions after receiving the marks. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: such a short time, you know, I couldn't prove that,
Speaker 1: but my health is not soured after I started getting them,
Speaker 1: and I've been getting them for probably eight years now,
Speaker 1: eight or nine years.
Speaker 3: When was the last time you had one?
Speaker 1: Just this summer from that sunburn story? But the schedule.
Speaker 1: This was what was interesting. The schedule had changed, it
Speaker 1: had moved later in the summer, so I can no
Speaker 1: longer predict when I'm going to get the marks. The
Speaker 1: Saturdays in May and then following every two weeks. That
Speaker 1: doesn't happen anymore. It took a break. I didn't get
Speaker 1: a single one for a year, and the other moderator
Speaker 1: of the Redgood Mark group had the same thing happened
Speaker 1: to her. So we must have been on the same
Speaker 1: visitation schedule because we didn't get marks for almost a year,
Speaker 1: and then in the summer of the following year the
Speaker 1: mark started again and I would get them probably once
Speaker 1: every three weeks, but I couldn't establish any pattern. They
Speaker 1: were coming on random days and during the week. So
Speaker 1: I have one year's worth of data, but I don't
Speaker 1: have anything to compare it to. So the last one
Speaker 1: I got, I believe, was in the middle of August,
Speaker 1: so they started really late in the beginning of July,
Speaker 1: and I had that one in late August, and that
Speaker 1: was the last one I got.
Speaker 3: Now with yours, are they just randomly throughout your body?
Speaker 3: They all still somewhat staying up on your back area
Speaker 3: up you shoulder.
Speaker 1: They've all been on my back for years. The original
Speaker 1: one I got on my shoulder was huge, and that
Speaker 1: was the only one I ever got there. Everyone I
Speaker 1: got after that was on my back, And it's usually
Speaker 1: spine centric, so I'll get like I had a hexagon
Speaker 1: coming off of the middle of my spine. One time
Speaker 1: I had the line, But most of the time, most
Speaker 1: of the marks are on the top left of my
Speaker 1: back or on the bottom right, and sometimes I'll get
Speaker 1: them in both spots at once, but they love those
Speaker 1: spots more than others almost like that's their consistency.
Speaker 3: Now, if it's around your spine, obviously that's connext to
Speaker 3: your nervous system and everything else through there, Like that's
Speaker 3: the main part of your body. So if it's there
Speaker 3: for a reason, like if they're looking for something, that
Speaker 3: would be an area like obviously besides your head and
Speaker 3: your brain, that would be your spine is the other
Speaker 3: major function for movements and everything else. I'm wondering if
Speaker 3: that has anything to do with it. But other people
Speaker 3: have had them in just random spots, like he's at
Speaker 3: the wrist or random spot forehead, Like there's no real
Speaker 3: rhyme or reason where these are showing up at So
Speaker 3: it's again with me trying to rationalize it. It's just
Speaker 3: I can't my head around the purpose.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like, uh, the survivor's bias, right, Like
Speaker 1: the planes that would return, we would see all these
Speaker 1: bullet holes in these planes, but those were the ones
Speaker 1: that came back, So there's no sense in armoring the
Speaker 1: places that the planes that returned have been shot in.
Speaker 1: So we don't see them in like the back of
Speaker 1: your knee, or we don't see them in between your toes,
Speaker 1: and we don't see them in places that are exceptionally
Speaker 1: grooved like your ears. I think that like the application
Speaker 1: marks with the thighs and the back where they've printed
Speaker 1: it multiple times, they want a large planar surface as
Speaker 1: much as possible to reduce the amount of error that
Speaker 1: could happen with the mark, So they would never put
Speaker 1: it on something like the back of the knee where
Speaker 1: it's got too many angles going on it. Just whatever
Speaker 1: data they're looking for out of burning the skin, they're
Speaker 1: not going to get it on a big curved surface
Speaker 1: like that. It's got to be something relatively flat, and
Speaker 1: you'll see this a lot. But take for example, the
Speaker 1: solid marks right, you can see the whole thing, and
Speaker 1: and it's usually on a pretty plane arm place like
Speaker 1: the thigh or the back, but you get a lot
Speaker 1: of them, like the one I got on my shoulder.
Speaker 1: As it moved down my back, it faded out over
Speaker 1: the curve and caused a gradient. And you'll see that
Speaker 1: a lot, like if you'll get one on your wrist.
Speaker 1: As the wrist starts to curve off to the right,
Speaker 1: you get a gradient. Again, So it's almost it's not
Speaker 1: this way, but you could imagine it this way, like
Speaker 1: a flat piece of metal is stuck against the skin,
Speaker 1: and then the radiation shown through it. You would get
Speaker 1: that same curvature off the side of your arm or
Speaker 1: on the curve of your back if you had a
Speaker 1: metal plate pressed into your shoulder. But we know that's
Speaker 1: not happening. But that's a great way to visualize it
Speaker 1: and is pretty accurate as far as anticipating the marking
Speaker 1: that gets left behind.
Speaker 3: Now, if this is a higher intelligence, an extraterrestrial, I
Speaker 3: find it strange. Obviously, if they're able to come here
Speaker 3: and travel through space, they clearly have to be more
Speaker 3: advanced than we are. And this it's kind of on
Speaker 3: top of a little off topic. But I struggle trying
Speaker 3: to comprehend that if they're able to travel trillions of
Speaker 3: miles and they get here and somehow they crash to me, like,
Speaker 3: how the hell did you travel trillions of miles and
Speaker 3: you get here and you crash out in a desert
Speaker 3: Like That's doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
Speaker 3: And with this pattern, like if they're worried about having
Speaker 3: Oh they screwed something up, so they got to redo
Speaker 3: it in the same area because the first one didn't take.
Speaker 3: It's like, if you're that far advanced, you can do this,
Speaker 3: you shouldn't have mistakes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it shouldn't be like, oh, well, you know, Z
Speaker 1: is the new guy on shift, and when he first
Speaker 1: did that, he didn't land at the first time. If
Speaker 1: you're from an extraterrestrial spacecraft that can travel across the
Speaker 1: known universe into five physics, you would think you would
Speaker 1: have maybe a computer that would just make sure you
Speaker 1: got it right the first time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I was just thinking about. I was like,
Speaker 3: if they're able to travel and do all this, how
Speaker 3: are they not getting it right on the first try?
Speaker 3: And how are they getting here? And all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: they just crash their ship out in the middle of nowhere,
Speaker 3: and just like, oops, he's a new guy leaving Bee.
Speaker 1: Maybe mistakes they're universal. You know, it's my first research expedition.
Speaker 1: I rushed through the manual back on the home world,
Speaker 1: and now I'm skittering into the desert.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I was always when they talk about
Speaker 3: the whole roswell thing and this and that, which maybe
Speaker 3: something really did crash out there. I have no idea,
Speaker 3: but it's like I struggle with thinking, like, well, you
Speaker 3: managed to get here in the first place, but then
Speaker 3: you aren't able to manage to land in the middle
Speaker 3: of nowhere.
Speaker 1: I agree. I mean, somebody from another world had to
Speaker 1: mess up royally. I mean, so bad if everybody's so
Speaker 1: concerned about the secrecy and not being seen by the
Speaker 1: humans and this guy just rams this thing right into
Speaker 1: the middle of the desert on somebody's farm. I mean,
Speaker 1: can you imagine the.
Speaker 3: Show Intergalactic shame?
Speaker 1: Oh man, his family is super disappointed and they got
Speaker 1: to grieve just a just a terrible job assignment. Who knows,
Speaker 1: who knows what they're like. Maybe they're individual. It's just
Speaker 1: like we are, and sometimes you know, we hire people
Speaker 1: into a position that it probably shouldn't be powering h
Speaker 1: or using powered lifting equipment.
Speaker 3: I think that's sometimes Bailey. But uh yeah, like the
Speaker 3: whole pattern thing that it's just hard to wrap your
Speaker 3: head around it because I don't know else to describe
Speaker 3: it to people. Obviously they can look it up if
Speaker 3: they're listening, but there's really no way for someone to
Speaker 3: just make it up, like.
Speaker 1: Especially in these high numbers, I mean thousands of people
Speaker 1: and more every week with predictable marks.
Speaker 3: No, I've seen some stuff to where I've been like, well,
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily know about that, Like there's only been
Speaker 3: like a couple splotches here or there, like that could
Speaker 3: be anything. I'm more or less like it. When it's
Speaker 3: the intricate patterns, those are the ones that are really
Speaker 3: hard to write off because it's like if I only
Speaker 3: had like a couple of dots, well, right, maybe I've
Speaker 3: had a couple dots. I can't I don't know. I
Speaker 3: wouldn't really think much of it. But if I woke
Speaker 3: up and I have a big pattern on my back
Speaker 3: or something looks very intricate, intelligent, like not just random,
Speaker 3: it would be like, okay, well then there's something too.
Speaker 3: And that's what really has caught my attention the most
Speaker 3: is the designs on some of them, like you said,
Speaker 3: with the seven point at star and like stuff like that.
Speaker 3: To me, it's like, okay, well, this could have been
Speaker 3: someone I guess could have done it, but again, for
Speaker 3: what purpose. There's no Oh look at me, I got
Speaker 3: attention on a Facebook group.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, the ward is completely minimal to go
Speaker 1: through such a massive amount of either pressure, pain or deliberation.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And some of them, yeah, clearly like the kids too.
Speaker 1: You know, kids with a big old dot across their forehead,
Speaker 1: red gridmark across their forehead. It's if the pinners.
Speaker 3: Are doing that, CPS need to come after them. That's
Speaker 3: the way I say, if you're really doing that your
Speaker 3: kid for like, why are you torturing your child just
Speaker 3: to get attention? Like it's stupid.
Speaker 1: But even though I mean, what what do you like
Speaker 1: to get a dot impression on the forehead, You've got
Speaker 1: to have something that is shaped like your forehead too.
Speaker 1: It's not enough to just stick your forehead on there,
Speaker 1: because some of them will go around the side of
Speaker 1: the head or they'll be under the chin, which is
Speaker 1: another really unexplainable one. Right, that's a really hard angle
Speaker 1: to get. So it's but it's real. At this point,
Speaker 1: there's thousands of people. The real question is how many
Speaker 1: people is it happening to that have no idea that
Speaker 1: it's happening to them, because we might just be seeing
Speaker 1: the outliers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I don't ever look at my back, So
Speaker 3: if I ever have something on my back, it's not
Speaker 3: like I get out of the shower and exam in
Speaker 3: my back every day or anything like that. I'm just
Speaker 3: I get out of dr up, I get dressed. I
Speaker 3: don't ever think about looking at something in an area
Speaker 3: where I can't see. I've got tattoos on my back
Speaker 3: that I couldn't tell you the last time I seen
Speaker 3: them because I don't ever think about it. They're back there,
Speaker 3: but I don't don't even know. I got another one
Speaker 3: this past summer. My wife and I got something and
Speaker 3: we have one tattoo that matches for our daughter, and
Speaker 3: the guy's like, well, what shoulder do you want to
Speaker 3: I was like, whichever shoulder that one tattoo is not on,
Speaker 3: because I couldn't even tell you what shoulder it's on it.
Speaker 3: This freakes I forgot because I don't ever see it.
Speaker 3: So if I was to have a random marking back there,
Speaker 3: I would never know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you only got basically two days to see it,
Speaker 1: so if you're not checking it every day, you're not
Speaker 1: gonna catch it. And I think that's the point of
Speaker 1: putting them on the back, like they it's like a
Speaker 1: lazy sort of secrecy. If you just put it on
Speaker 1: the back, you won't see it. But they don't think
Speaker 1: about stuff like I'm gonna have my shirt off all
Speaker 1: day at the beach. Everybody's gonna see this thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but definitely when they hit the face and the wrist,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's no two ways about it. Everybody's gonna
Speaker 1: ask and you're just gonna have to say, I have
Speaker 1: no idea.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the face thing, to me, that's the one that's
Speaker 3: like there's really no way of getting around that one. Like, hey,
Speaker 3: you got something around on your forehead, Yep, what was
Speaker 3: that from? I couldn't tell you. And then they're just
Speaker 3: gonna look at you like you're crazy.
Speaker 1: Yep. That's that's what a lot of people with red
Speaker 1: goridmark have to deal with all the time. My family
Speaker 1: and my girlfriend would see it all the time, and
Speaker 1: I even I've shown my coworkers at one point, I mean,
Speaker 1: I get the red good mark. I'm not lying here,
Speaker 1: it is check it out and they're like, that is
Speaker 1: actually very very strange and unexplainable. So once you realize,
Speaker 1: once you get in the phenomenon, you know that it's
Speaker 1: happening to you. Like, not everybody gets a lot of them,
Speaker 1: but I would say maybe like a quarter a quarter
Speaker 1: of us do get them constantly all the time, multiple
Speaker 1: times a year, but probably no more than like eight
Speaker 1: times a year. So you're always anticipating when's the next
Speaker 1: one gonna come, and it just becomes a party of life.
Speaker 1: Definitely at this point, it definitely has for me. It's
Speaker 1: such a wonderful mystery to experience, and I feel I
Speaker 1: feel very gifted for even getting to see this really bizarre, strange,
Speaker 1: artificial phenomenon. But I do enjoy it definitely.
Speaker 3: Now, if anyone wants to try and reach out to
Speaker 3: you to contact the group or anything, you want to
Speaker 3: tell them where they can go to try and help
Speaker 3: spread the word on this.
Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, if you just go on Facebook, you can
Speaker 1: join either one of the groups, there's a private group
Speaker 1: and a public group and they're both called Red Gridmark Phenomenon.
Speaker 1: One is called Experiencers and Researchers, and obviously that's private.
Speaker 1: You have to answer a couple of questions to get
Speaker 1: in because people are posting their bodies and there's experience
Speaker 1: with Red Gridmark. And then the Discussion and Speculation group
Speaker 1: that we just opened up recently is open to everybody,
Speaker 1: so you can feel free to post about the subject
Speaker 1: in there without any restrictions besides basics. But Experiencers and
Speaker 1: Researchers is where the real data has happened so far,
Speaker 1: and it really shines as far as showing how real
Speaker 1: a phenomenon this is and how interesting it is.
Speaker 3: Definitely, well, I think this is going to wrap it
Speaker 3: up for tonight, and like I said, I'll definitely get
Speaker 3: back with you because the occult stuff is definitely something
Speaker 3: I would like to talk about in the future episode.
Speaker 3: But I do appreciate you coming out and talking with me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've I enjoyed our conversation. I look forward to
Speaker 1: our future ones. I think we have a lot of
Speaker 1: stories yet to share, in a lot of topics to
Speaker 1: get into.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely but again I appreciate it, and hopefully this
Speaker 3: is a discussion that others will listen to and start
Speaker 3: researching for themselves. And who knows, maybe they've encountered it
Speaker 3: and haven't even realized that yet.
Speaker 1: So maybe snow we'll see if they haven't. He read
Speaker 1: goodmark phenomenon, they know where to find us now, lots
Speaker 1: of good to look into.
Speaker 3: All right, Well, thanks Justin and I'll be in touch.
Speaker 1: All right, talk to you later, Brandon.
Speaker 3: Yep, thank you, see it. I like to take this
Speaker 3: time to day to welcome my guest, Dan Daniel. Thanks
Speaker 3: for coming on talking with me.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3: So what exactly is it that you do for the
Speaker 3: listeners out there to give them a little bit of
Speaker 3: an idea of what you're researching in. How we've gotten
Speaker 3: contact with each other and the field your studies are in.
Speaker 2: Sure? Thank you. Yeah. So we got connected on the
Speaker 2: Red gridmark Phenomenon Researchers and Experiencers group that's on Facebook.
Speaker 2: It's a great group for people who experience the red
Speaker 2: gridmark phenomenon to share photos of this anomalous and geometric
Speaker 2: body mark. I got interested in researching that phenomenon primarily
Speaker 2: because it seemed to me associated with ET contact dreams,
Speaker 2: but also because the experiencers were not as freaked out
Speaker 2: about these marks as other body mark experiences are. So
Speaker 2: I was really fascinated with that. My field of study
Speaker 2: and my focus of research is in ET contact and dreams.
Speaker 2: Nowadays we use the term non human intelligence rather than
Speaker 2: ET to keep the hypotheses open from just these space
Speaker 2: travelers too. They might be something else, maybe angels, maybe fairies,
Speaker 2: maybe ourselves in another dimension, that sort of thing. And
Speaker 2: I work with people directly through dreamwork and hypnosis services.
Speaker 2: So I've been focused on that for about three years
Speaker 2: straight now, working with people with missing time. And I'm
Speaker 2: in a PhD program and instant integral Noetics Sciences, which
Speaker 2: is sort of like a update to parapsychology, and my
Speaker 2: research focus there is ET contact and dreams. So thanks
Speaker 2: for having me to talk about these fascinating phenomenon.
Speaker 3: Now I need to thank me. I'm grateful to have
Speaker 3: you on here. That's a lot of topics that I
Speaker 3: try to go down for episodes and everything, So any
Speaker 3: type of information that I can bring out there for
Speaker 3: the audience, I definitely appreciate that. Great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I do a lot of research with the
Speaker 2: red gridmark groups. There's two ways I do research with them,
Speaker 2: and I'll talk about this topic first and foremost as
Speaker 2: the focus here just because we connected there on the group.
Speaker 2: And the way I work with the REG grid mark
Speaker 2: group is I'm conducting a survey about dreams in association
Speaker 2: with the red gridmark phenomena. Justin, the moderator of the group,
Speaker 2: spoke a bit about the survey he ran in your podcast,
Speaker 2: and that survey covered about one hundred and thirty or
Speaker 2: one hundred and forty experiencers of the REG gridmark phenomena,
Speaker 2: and it described its appearance, how it shows up on
Speaker 2: the body, what happens, and so we know that there
Speaker 2: are patterns to the red grid mark, and for your
Speaker 2: listeners who are unfamiliar with that, I'd recommend checking out
Speaker 2: Justin Sanderson's interview with you. But I'll go briefly into
Speaker 2: what it is. It's it's a mark that appears on
Speaker 2: people's bodies in mysterious ways, and it's highly geometric. It's
Speaker 2: basically a grid of red dots that show up in
Speaker 2: mysterious ways, and these dots appear to be like radiation
Speaker 2: burns or burst capillaries under the skin. Generally there is
Speaker 2: a discernible pattern that may be applied multiple times to
Speaker 2: the skin it looks like and people generally find them
Speaker 2: upon waking or they don't remember how these appear, but
Speaker 2: there are some experiencers who report seeing them appear there
Speaker 2: in daytime. And it's there's a lot of contradictory or
Speaker 2: paradoxical characteristics of the phenomena. What those characteristics are. It
Speaker 2: is associated with entity visitation, either through a direct association
Speaker 2: with alien abduction or through strange kind of remembered or
Speaker 2: even just not necessarily remembered but intuitive dreamlike experiences of
Speaker 2: entity encounters. And these include spirits, spirit guides, ghosts, ancestors, etes,
Speaker 2: and you know others. Let's say, and that the prevalence
Speaker 2: of people reporting these strange dreams and entity encounters appears
Speaker 2: to be more prevalent in this community of experiences than
Speaker 2: in the normal population or in other similar types of phenomena.
Speaker 2: So that's why I was really interested in it. And
Speaker 2: it's a very regular phenomenon. Thousands of people experience it.
Speaker 2: People have gone to dermatologists. I worked with a Harvard
Speaker 2: trained plastic surgeon who experienced the mark during a brain
Speaker 2: tumor surgery and had a team of doctors look at
Speaker 2: it and they couldn't figure it out. So there's a
Speaker 2: lot of jury associated here. So I conduct a survey
Speaker 2: that that's still underway. I'll probably it'll probably run for
Speaker 2: a few more months, and then I'll summarize the data
Speaker 2: and produce a report. The other way I work with
Speaker 2: people there's is through dreamwork and hypnosis. I've worked with
Speaker 2: red grid mark experiencers. We've gone through a regression hypnosis
Speaker 2: to understand what happens. I have a lot of thought
Speaker 2: and research around what regression hypnosis is and can do,
Speaker 2: and that's a topic we can dive into a bit later,
Speaker 2: and that that brings forward some really meaningful information for
Speaker 2: the experiencers that may or may not necessarily be relevant
Speaker 2: to the whole community. For example, gray aliens show up
Speaker 2: in some of them, sometimes as spirits, and that sense
Speaker 2: of identification of who's doing the mark is meaningful to
Speaker 2: the experiencer, but as a community it may or may
Speaker 2: not be applicable, primarily because there may be multiple types
Speaker 2: of agents working on the other side producing this mark.
Speaker 2: The final domain of work I do with the red
Speaker 2: grid mark phenomenon is geometric analysis. So I use Euclidean
Speaker 2: constructive geometry. This is based on ruler and compass. This
Speaker 2: is sort of like elementary geometry circles and lines and squares,
Speaker 2: and I use that type of geometry to analyze the
Speaker 2: marks and to basically count the number of dots to
Speaker 2: say this is a hexagonal grid or a square grid.
Speaker 2: And I use that process to discern or make meaning
Speaker 2: of the mark in whatever way I can. So I
Speaker 2: can say it's placed next to this birthmark in a
Speaker 2: sacred geometric proportion. I can say it's a hexagonal grid.
Speaker 2: I can say that the mark itself is composed or
Speaker 2: must have been applied in specific ways so that I
Speaker 2: can start discerning what is how the mark is manifesting,
Speaker 2: and what we can know about it. And it turns
Speaker 2: out there's a lot we can know about the mark
Speaker 2: itself just from looking at how it appears on the body,
Speaker 2: and primarily that insight. The insight that I have is
Speaker 2: that it must be an intelligent mark maker that has
Speaker 2: some level of empathy with us in our theory of mind.
Speaker 2: They know we are looking at it, they are aware
Speaker 2: of our intelligence and how we perceive it, and there
Speaker 2: working with us to have some level of communication. This
Speaker 2: is the This is the conclusion I'm coming to, is
Speaker 2: that the market itself is, in addition to all it
Speaker 2: could be, is some form of geometric communication from these
Speaker 2: entities to us. And that might involve communication of meaning
Speaker 2: across multiple phases of consciousness, the waking and dreaming phases.
Speaker 2: It might involve some other mode of communication. So those
Speaker 2: three ways are how I work with a group.
Speaker 3: Now, you've never actually had experiences with your own, have you?
Speaker 2: So I have had an experience. I've had anomalist body
Speaker 2: marks in association with the red gridmark phenomenon.
Speaker 3: Group.
Speaker 2: It is not red gridmark. My kid. Recently, my twelve
Speaker 2: year old son had what appeared to be the reg
Speaker 2: grid mark phenomena on his face. But we did research
Speaker 2: and we found out that he had pressed his face
Speaker 2: against a hexagonal dotted grid metal shelf thing that had
Speaker 2: was on casters these wheels so he would roll it
Speaker 2: around the floor and sort of just play with it
Speaker 2: with our cobbler, and had ended up pushing his face
Speaker 2: into this grid thing. So I had about a day
Speaker 2: of going, oh my god, my son's being marked by
Speaker 2: the red grid mark. What does this mean? So we
Speaker 2: looked around and I had that experience of finding a
Speaker 2: prosaic explanation for this and go, oh okay. He just
Speaker 2: pressed the space into it in this really weird way.
Speaker 2: He was sort of wrestling with this shelf experience. So
Speaker 2: that was a recent experience. The anomalist body mark in
Speaker 2: association with the red grid mark is a rose. I
Speaker 2: believe because I did a CE five style invitation. So
Speaker 2: I started when I worked with a ridmark for about
Speaker 2: a year or so, and then I realized that I
Speaker 2: personally was not afraid of the mark makers, that I
Speaker 2: was discerning a sense of communication and even humor in
Speaker 2: the marks themselves and beauty creativity. And I started seeing
Speaker 2: qualities of mind these marks that appear to be perhaps
Speaker 2: human or perhaps human like, and so I realized that
Speaker 2: perhaps they might respond to a CE five style invitation.
Speaker 2: For those who don't know what CE five is, it
Speaker 2: was a method of human initiated contact experience popularized by
Speaker 2: doctor Stephen Greer and his documentaries like Gotten Acknowledged or
Speaker 2: Close Encounters of the Fifth Kind. These are really just
Speaker 2: it's a meditation. You use the power of my mind
Speaker 2: to set an intention and say, hey, I'm willing to
Speaker 2: have an experience of contact with these entities. You set
Speaker 2: up certain guide rails, obviously, so you don't open the
Speaker 2: door to all source of entities. But in particular, I said, hey,
Speaker 2: red grid mark makers, I believe you're humorous, I believe
Speaker 2: you're kind. I don't believe you're harmful. You're allowed to
Speaker 2: mark my body, you know. So I offered that invitation.
Speaker 2: In About four months later, I experienced an anomalous geometric
Speaker 2: body mark I first identified as red gridmark, but immediately
Speaker 2: afterwards said no, no, no, this is absolutely not red
Speaker 2: grid mark. But it is geometric. So I have a
Speaker 2: little bit of a sense as to what it's like
Speaker 2: to be marked with a geometric mark, but it is
Speaker 2: definitely not red gridmark.
Speaker 3: How often do you think people are actually marked and
Speaker 3: they just run a ware.
Speaker 2: That's a really good question. I see my personal experience
Speaker 2: when I when I've looked into this, I mean my
Speaker 2: personal experience. I was marked on the body. I was
Speaker 2: definitely aware of that, and I perceived the mark, and
Speaker 2: I said, hey, this is GMT. This is intelligent. This
Speaker 2: is the result of some sort of interaction. It is
Speaker 2: not an accident. It's not bed bugs, it's not these
Speaker 2: other things. But I was unable to substantiate or even
Speaker 2: remember what happened. I was like, everyone I talked to
Speaker 2: will say, hey, that kind of that's like bed bugs
Speaker 2: or something. I don't know. And there's a thing that
Speaker 2: happens with the conscious mind when we don't have a
Speaker 2: rational explanation, we want to shut down and not just
Speaker 2: even open up to it. So even though I experienced
Speaker 2: the body mark, even though clearly to one part of
Speaker 2: my mind it was geometric and meaningful, the other part
Speaker 2: of my mind said, no, I'll just forget about it.
Speaker 2: And so I've had experiences all of my life with
Speaker 2: these things, but I've forgotten a lot about those experiences
Speaker 2: just because I don't have a means to make sense
Speaker 2: of them from this perspective. So in there's something called
Speaker 2: state specific memory, and this is the mechanism that causes
Speaker 2: us to remember things based on smells. Right, So there's
Speaker 2: a specific state associated with those things, like a smell
Speaker 2: of a childhood home. If you smell something unique from
Speaker 2: there that reminds you of that place, you have much
Speaker 2: more access to memory associated with that smell. And so
Speaker 2: in the same way you know waking life. We don't
Speaker 2: have a lot of memory of these encounters, but if
Speaker 2: we start to encounter things that remind us of it,
Speaker 2: the state specific memories start coming back. This is a
Speaker 2: long way to get to the answer of probably a
Speaker 2: lot more than we expect. People are receiving these marks.
Speaker 2: A lot of times we just understand that, hey, maybe
Speaker 2: a bed but bit or insect or hit against something.
Speaker 2: A lot of people do respond to my work because
Speaker 2: I've been posting the geometric analysis. I say, hey, there's
Speaker 2: meaning here, there's strong geommetry. It seems communicative. You can
Speaker 2: discern this meaning yourself by applying geometry to it. They go, okay,
Speaker 2: so there's something about that that gives people to respond
Speaker 2: to me, and they say, I've had these all my life.
Speaker 2: Here's some photos like I just didn't talk about it.
Speaker 2: So I personally believe that there are at least dozens
Speaker 2: of similar body marks to what I received. And I
Speaker 2: believe I've discovered this phenomenon in so far that I've
Speaker 2: connected the dots of this type of characteristic mark, just
Speaker 2: like justin opened up the space of the red grid mark.
Speaker 2: Researcher and Experiencer Group and there's thousands of people that
Speaker 2: are now responding, so we really just need to open
Speaker 2: up and say, hey, this is a thing that's happening.
Speaker 2: It's meaningful. We can't deduce a lot about it quite yet.
Speaker 2: We don't know what's happening. This is not self harm,
Speaker 2: this is not bed bugs. This is something anomaloust and meaningful.
Speaker 2: And if we were to do that as a mainstream culture,
Speaker 2: I would suspect that somewhere in the range of one
Speaker 2: to five percent of people would have experienced something like that.
Speaker 2: And that's just a broad gass, so it would be
Speaker 2: not common but not rare.
Speaker 3: Actually, it was emailed by someone I just brought it
Speaker 3: up here apparently during my interview we mentioned it was
Speaker 3: a recent phenomenon, and they said they were experiencing back
Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy two through nineteen seventy eight, okay, and
Speaker 3: they said back then obviously didn't have cameras like we
Speaker 3: do with phones and stuff today, so they weren't able
Speaker 3: just to pop out a camera and take a photo.
Speaker 3: But yep, and then I've been I have to go
Speaker 3: back and find the other one. But someone also reached
Speaker 3: out right after the episode it aired with justin and
Speaker 3: they said what people are experiences is stick. My I'm like,
Speaker 3: that's not really the same thing, because I thought stigmata
Speaker 3: like you bleed, there's like holes and it's more like
Speaker 3: from the crucifixion of Christ. So I don't really think
Speaker 3: that's the same as the red grid marks. Red grid
Speaker 3: mark you don't have blood or anything like that. They're
Speaker 3: literally just with these markings on your body that you
Speaker 3: don't necessarily feel or anything like that.
Speaker 2: That's right, yeah, in the so the body mark phenomenon
Speaker 2: has been with us as long as like history, right,
Speaker 2: you talk about stigmata, that's the thing that's happened that
Speaker 2: was generally kicked off after Saint Francis, and there's very
Speaker 2: interesting paintings of him being shot with a beam of
Speaker 2: light from you know, like Jesus in something that looks
Speaker 2: like a spacecraft, right, like a Sarah seraph, which is
Speaker 2: a sacred is it's depicted as a sacred geometric form
Speaker 2: with like in the face of Christ shooting a beam
Speaker 2: of light at him and then he gets the stigmata.
Speaker 2: It happens. Stigmata has happened since then, and then before
Speaker 2: then there was there are accounts of body marks in
Speaker 2: association with fairies and witches generally is where there's a
Speaker 2: lot of a lot more documentation that goes back hundreds
Speaker 2: of years. And the question for me is if these
Speaker 2: are the same phenomena are different. If they're the same phenomena,
Speaker 2: something's happening within the physical body that is almost psychosomatic,
Speaker 2: and it's responding to a spiritual template or religious templates.
Speaker 2: So because the stigmatic experiencers are religious and use the
Speaker 2: iconography of Christ on the cross, they receive the holes,
Speaker 2: holes in the hand, or wrists that are bloody. But
Speaker 2: if the experiencers are more technologically oriented, like modern people,
Speaker 2: they might receive a template of interaction that's based on
Speaker 2: uh technological motifs like hybridization or medical experimentation. And a
Speaker 2: hypothesis could be put forward that the non human intelligences
Speaker 2: have a kind of quality of formlessness, but when they
Speaker 2: interact with humans in historical time, they need forms, and
Speaker 2: those forms are in part determined by our the contents
Speaker 2: of our imagination. And this this type of hypothesis has
Speaker 2: been put forward by the famous research researcher Jacques Bealat
Speaker 2: when he observed the the long history of fairy law
Speaker 2: in its correspondence with abduction law and seeing that there
Speaker 2: are you know, similar experienced this happening when in the
Speaker 2: distant past and we just said, hey, these are fairies
Speaker 2: and angels. The sense of having the from the seventies
Speaker 2: is interesting. I believe that may be one of the
Speaker 2: earliest cases that people have discussed. There's one photograph of
Speaker 2: the red gridmark in the sixties, but that was definitely
Speaker 2: not red gridmark because it was a burn that someone
Speaker 2: was hospitalized for in association with viewing a UFO. It
Speaker 2: was sort of like understood to be an exhaust fume,
Speaker 2: and that's called the Falcon Lake incident, and I believe
Speaker 2: that was in the sixties, So I would I'd love
Speaker 2: to follow up with that that about the red gridmark specifically.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the email says us from nineteen seventy two to
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy eight, and then they included a post that
Speaker 3: they put on a Facebook group. So since it's out
Speaker 3: on a Facebook group, I'll go ahead and read that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it said a recent post from the Scratches appearing on
Speaker 3: a person in the night. My memory is something that
Speaker 3: used to happen to me many years ago when I
Speaker 3: was in my teens in early twenties, weird dot patterns
Speaker 3: that would randomly appear in the upper left quadrant of
Speaker 3: my back. No, it wasn't acne, It wasn't a rash.
Speaker 3: The dots were a very precise in pattern. It didn't niche,
Speaker 3: burn or hurt. The pattern was just there. No, I
Speaker 3: wasn't sitting in my back against a chair that had
Speaker 3: similar patterns. My dad was a science was My dad
Speaker 3: was mister science, and he tried every rational explanation to
Speaker 3: come up and came up empty. It happened at college,
Speaker 3: and it happened at home. Mom took me to a dermatologist.
Speaker 3: He was mystified. At some point it just stopped happening.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure when has anybody had any experiences like
Speaker 3: this or thoughts. So that was the post that they
Speaker 3: had made on this group. But the like I said,
Speaker 3: the person themselves actually emailed me after they found the episode,
Speaker 3: and this was back in June. But they said, that's
Speaker 3: back in nineteen seventy two through nineteen seventy eight and
Speaker 3: then it just kind of quit happening.
Speaker 2: Interesting, Yeah, that experience is very typical of red grid
Speaker 2: mark precise grids no, pain, doesn't burn, doesn't itch. There's
Speaker 2: a mystery that's present, but there's not necessarily the quality
Speaker 2: of paranoia or fear that is typically associated with the
Speaker 2: abduction marks, at least when I've done my research into
Speaker 2: other body marks, there's you know, scratch marks or other
Speaker 2: things like that, or dots, that sort of thing, and
Speaker 2: people sometimes are much more freaked out by this. There's
Speaker 2: sort of a sense of quiet mystery that's sort of perturbing,
Speaker 2: but not necessarily like damaging or paranoia or something like that.
Speaker 2: Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no problem. I've gotten a lot of emails actually
Speaker 3: and comments and stuff from people. Someone actually tried to
Speaker 3: get a hold of my wife to get a hold
Speaker 3: of me because they found my thing on Facebook, and
Speaker 3: I wasn't responding to their messages because it goes automatically
Speaker 3: to your you're not a friend with the person that
Speaker 3: goes to like a junk folder or something. Yep. So
Speaker 3: they were messaging my wife to try and get hold
Speaker 3: of me because they discover this on their spouse, and
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm not an expert or anything about it.
Speaker 3: Like I literally had a guy on that experienced it
Speaker 3: and he has this group or whatever. But all these
Speaker 3: people kind of reach out to me over this red gridmark,
Speaker 3: and the more I've tried to dig into it, I've
Speaker 3: actually went on different search engines. I've went to some
Speaker 3: that like Duck Duck Go that aren't necessarily like monitored
Speaker 3: by Google or whatever, and I still come up empty,
Speaker 3: finding very little info about the REDI gridmark promise. I
Speaker 3: still think it's something that's really low on the radar.
Speaker 2: It is surprisingly low on the radar, I am. I'm
Speaker 2: actually actually shocks. It took me a while to realize
Speaker 2: just how low on the radar it is, you know,
Speaker 2: because there's there's there's like two thousand people now in
Speaker 2: the group. There's hundreds of photographs. Actually, Experiential Dreaming dot
Speaker 2: Com did a dossier they made they they did in
Speaker 2: depth interviews and photographs with three to four hundred experiencers,
Speaker 2: probably about ten years ago now, there were three researchers
Speaker 2: that were really into dreaming and the connection between redgridmark
Speaker 2: and dreaming, and they interviewed all these people, took photographs,
Speaker 2: did a lot of research, put it up on a website.
Speaker 2: They charged about ten dollars for the research. And that's
Speaker 2: the only other research that I see associated with red
Speaker 2: gridmark phenomena. I I'm a PhD student, so I'm interested
Speaker 2: in research. I want to do research. I've been talking
Speaker 2: to people about this, and you know, I presented a
Speaker 2: little bit on this phenomenon in the International Association of
Speaker 2: the Study of Dreams conference this summer, and I had
Speaker 2: a few people, a few professional scientists, you know, come
Speaker 2: up to me afterwards and say, hey, that your talk
Speaker 2: was interesting. I'd love to help out. But that's as
Speaker 2: far as it's gotten so far. I believe with kind
Speaker 2: of academic or scientific based research. I've been telling people
Speaker 2: about it. Justin's been talking to people about it. It
Speaker 2: seems so fascinating. I mean a number of experiencers go
Speaker 2: to doctors and say, what is this and they don't
Speaker 2: They can't explain it, and it seems so obviously intelligently designed.
Speaker 2: So I think a lot of what happens is researchers
Speaker 2: either go this is clearly people sitting on benches, This
Speaker 2: is clearly a backpack mesh pushed into people's backs. However,
Speaker 2: if you actually look at the thousands of photographs we
Speaker 2: have that it's clear that those explanations can account for
Speaker 2: probably a majority of the phenomena, but there's a minority
Speaker 2: that demonstrate Immed's creativity. And I would say, actually artistry
Speaker 2: and technical skill and application that you cannot explain any
Speaker 2: other way than intentional geometric communication. Let's say there's a
Speaker 2: reason why it's coming together, and it may use different
Speaker 2: elements like the template. The grid pattern itself may actually
Speaker 2: be that long range biopsy device that Justin talks about.
Speaker 2: But to my eyes, how it's applied me is it
Speaker 2: has specific meaning. And I am thinking about the circular
Speaker 2: red grid marks actually because they're composed of sort of
Speaker 2: pie slices of what appears to be the same template
Speaker 2: applied over and over again for a very specific reason,
Speaker 2: which is the construction of these these circles out of
Speaker 2: these different bits of the grid or something like that.
Speaker 2: The circles themselves are quizzical, they have beautiful patterns in them.
Speaker 2: There's you know, like a quarter of the circumference will
Speaker 2: have these big, bigger dots for some reason, there's specific
Speaker 2: numbers associated with it. And if I look into the geometry,
Speaker 2: sacred geometry, meaningful constants, meaningful relationships just fall out of it.
Speaker 2: So and I've looked through a lot of other types
Speaker 2: of body marks. I've analyzed things that appear to be
Speaker 2: the grid mark but aren't. So there is a heightened
Speaker 2: degree of communication here, And so I think what ends
Speaker 2: up happening with these scientists they go they either say hey,
Speaker 2: is it? These people don't know what sitting on grid
Speaker 2: benches does to people, and so all of the red
Speaker 2: grid mark experiencers are diluted in thinking there's a mysterious explanation,
Speaker 2: or they into it that it's an intelligent phenomena that
Speaker 2: we can't explain that demonstrates advanced technology, and nobody's ready
Speaker 2: to handle that. Like that's a really hard thing to
Speaker 2: engage funders of research. It's really hard to put your
Speaker 2: reputation on the line to say, hey, I think this
Speaker 2: is an artifact of advanced technology of non human intelligence,
Speaker 2: and to even put forward that hypothesis as a professional researcher,
Speaker 2: as an academic or scientist is risky. And so I
Speaker 2: think that's in part why there's not more of a
Speaker 2: presence or a focus on this.
Speaker 3: I think that's a very big reason too. Just look
Speaker 3: at the landscape we have right now with these UAP
Speaker 3: hearings and everything that's went on in the last few months.
Speaker 3: And I would have never thought ten years ago that
Speaker 3: Congress would have ever openly talked about something like that,
Speaker 3: and here it was in the last two or three years.
Speaker 3: Now they've had hearings about it and discussions about it.
Speaker 3: I feel like this is a phenomenon that needs to
Speaker 3: be brought up. Obviously, it's not that we are aware
Speaker 3: of affecting people in the sense of harming them, but
Speaker 3: at the same time, it's something strange that literally is
Speaker 3: going on, and no one seems to know about it.
Speaker 3: I know on the Mayo Clinic there is like twenty
Speaker 3: something different pages of people asking about these marks, and
Speaker 3: they never got a single response from them. Yep, it's
Speaker 3: like they just ignore it, like no one wants to
Speaker 3: look into it. It's clearly someone's experiencing these things and
Speaker 3: dermatologists don't know what they are. Other doctors and stuff
Speaker 3: look at and have no idea what they are. But
Speaker 3: then it just gets swept under the road that they
Speaker 3: don't want to discuss if anyone wants to research, and
Speaker 3: no one wants to be the first ones that blow
Speaker 3: the lid off this thing.
Speaker 2: That's right, and that's why I'm approaching it from the
Speaker 2: That's why I have the dream study angle going, because
Speaker 2: dreams are weird already. You know, dreams are weird enough
Speaker 2: already for the mainstream that we can study. We go, okay,
Speaker 2: there's a phenomena here. Let's just look at the dreams
Speaker 2: and say what the contents of the dreams are. If
Speaker 2: there's any patterns, I think that will be a step
Speaker 2: forward in terms of actually publishing on this. And so
Speaker 2: in the research I'm doing, I'm just collecting dreams. I'm
Speaker 2: going to interview some experiencers, and I'll put together pretty
Speaker 2: standard dream studies research on this topic. Say these are
Speaker 2: the dreams of these experiencers. As an aside, we get
Speaker 2: to describe the actual phenomena that's happening. And my hope
Speaker 2: is that I can get that paper peer reviewed, which
Speaker 2: should be relatively easy enough because we're doing standard dream
Speaker 2: studies kind of what did you dream about? I'm using
Speaker 2: a very standard method of asking people about their dreams,
Speaker 2: and then hopefully as an aside, we'll get the phenomenon
Speaker 2: characteristics published and that could be a step forward for
Speaker 2: other researchers to cite this paper. Say let's actually look
Speaker 2: into not the dreams. But the physical aspect of this phenomenon, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's fascinating to me. I get riled up a little
Speaker 2: bit about this because it's clearly communicative, it's clearly geometrically meaningful.
Speaker 2: There's clear connections with entities. Whether or not they're angels
Speaker 2: or aliens or secret humans we still have to figure out.
Speaker 2: But there's enough data in the geometry and the application
Speaker 2: that we could literally build a model of the how
Speaker 2: it's being made. Right, we could, we could slow, we could,
Speaker 2: we could build a model of how it's applied. In
Speaker 2: the theory that we have is that it is applied
Speaker 2: as light shined through templates or I use the metaphor
Speaker 2: of a dark room. So there's a light source, it
Speaker 2: goes through a photonegative and goes onto photosensitive paper. The
Speaker 2: photosensive sensitive paper would be analogous to the skin. The
Speaker 2: darkroom light is analogous to whatever source of light they have,
Speaker 2: and the the photograph the negative is something similar to
Speaker 2: the grid pattern that they're using to make the marks.
Speaker 2: There's another couple elements associated with this model, and that
Speaker 2: would be opaque sheets of paper. Basically, so in dark
Speaker 2: room photography you might isolate specific elements of the photograph
Speaker 2: to expose them, or it's called dodge and burn basically,
Speaker 2: so you add more light to areas and you prevent
Speaker 2: light from hitting some areas of the photo paper in
Speaker 2: order to make the contrast the way you want, and
Speaker 2: you use those pieces of paper between the film and
Speaker 2: the negative to do that control. And we see that
Speaker 2: actually happening. I see that happening in the geometry of
Speaker 2: the marks. When you look into it. They're clearly they
Speaker 2: have something like a dark room projector and they're shining
Speaker 2: it onto the skin, and they do multiple applications, and
Speaker 2: those things become very apparent, and there's certain deviations from
Speaker 2: the euclidian construction the design, so you can start to
Speaker 2: see the accidental effects of physical bodies, like having light
Speaker 2: shined to the curved bodies or people moving. That's another
Speaker 2: thing you can see. And so there's enough deviations from
Speaker 2: those patterns in regular, meaningful ways that we can start
Speaker 2: to use those sort of how these dots get expanded
Speaker 2: as they land on the contours of the body, and
Speaker 2: how they're applied multiple times to start to go how
Speaker 2: could this actually happen with this metaphor of a darkroom
Speaker 2: projector film and photo paper, and we could actually start
Speaker 2: to go, Okay, we could reproduce some of the designs
Speaker 2: that they're using as the fundamental templates that they're applying
Speaker 2: to the red grid mark, and that would be fascinating
Speaker 2: to me, and that that requires that would that would
Speaker 2: that's implied by the geometry that we're seeing as something
Speaker 2: we could do. We have there's one case of a
Speaker 2: photograph of something that seems like someone someone took a
Speaker 2: photograph of their kid that received the mark, which was
Speaker 2: an interesting hexagonal grid pattern. But there's a triangle of
Speaker 2: light that you can see in the photograph and something
Speaker 2: in that triangle of light, and so there it seems
Speaker 2: to be something like an inter dimensional machine or something
Speaker 2: like that. But to actually build a physical model of
Speaker 2: it would move us forward into understanding what is even possible,
Speaker 2: How is it even possible that these are technically applied.
Speaker 2: That seems it seems like so obvious to me to
Speaker 2: be the next step something we need to do as
Speaker 2: people who are researching this mark as humans. Really, this
Speaker 2: is a mystery that deserves investigation because touses of people
Speaker 2: are experiencing it and it's so mysterious and exhibit such
Speaker 2: qualities that it has to be advanced technology. There's no
Speaker 2: other rational explanation that is being applied through intelligent design,
Speaker 2: and it opens up so many questions like who are
Speaker 2: these people making the marks? Why are they doing that,
Speaker 2: Why are they doing it in such a way that
Speaker 2: we could build a model of their device to do that,
Speaker 2: And that sort of feels like they are leading us
Speaker 2: towards technological development. That's one of the deductions I have
Speaker 2: is this, if we investigate this, we will then have
Speaker 2: the technology that is necessary to produce such marks. And
Speaker 2: it doesn't seem like it's that far away from actually
Speaker 2: understanding it would require a research grant, it requires some scientists,
Speaker 2: right like we need we need it, just it requires
Speaker 2: hours of time to collect the data, collate it. Even
Speaker 2: from the Red grid Mark Phenomenon group, there's tremendous amount
Speaker 2: of data, but it's not structured in a way that
Speaker 2: could be analyzed easily, so we have to go through
Speaker 2: certain processes and just nobody's doing it. No one's offered,
Speaker 2: no one's offered me funding to do it. There's no
Speaker 2: grants out there to study anominalist body marks that I
Speaker 2: know of, so I wish that were something that we
Speaker 2: could do as a people, and that science were more
Speaker 2: open to that. I do see actually science moving in
Speaker 2: that direction, and the UAP hearings to be kind of
Speaker 2: a watershed threshold moment, because what's the testimony of the
Speaker 2: uf A whistleblower right is really received heard? And if
Speaker 2: anything comes out of that from Congress that confirms the
Speaker 2: presence of non human and intelligence and UAPs in our world,
Speaker 2: and the reality of these things are confirmed by the government,
Speaker 2: then that opens the door for mainstream funding organizations, science
Speaker 2: and academia to start asking the questions what about the biologics,
Speaker 2: what about the pilots, what about the intelligences? Where before
Speaker 2: it was just sort of ridiculous to ask us questions.
Speaker 2: So it's a very exciting time and I'm looking forward
Speaker 2: in the next five years to see where this goes.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: Has anyone done I don't know if it's in that.
Speaker 3: I think there's like seventy three pages of the survey,
Speaker 3: and I've flipped through it. I don't remember everything about it.
Speaker 3: Does it ever determined what layer of the skin these
Speaker 3: marks were on? Did anyone ever figure that out?
Speaker 1: Not?
Speaker 2: To my knowledge, no, I remember justin talking about how
Speaker 2: it being somewhere at the layer of tattoo or sunburn,
Speaker 2: but there's there's not been any any the investigation regarding that.
Speaker 1: Is.
Speaker 2: That's actually one of the characteristics that I used to
Speaker 2: determine if a photograph is a red gridmark phenomenon or not. Right, So,
Speaker 2: if there's a puncture, it's not red gridmark. If there's
Speaker 2: a scratch, it's not red grid mark. If it's below
Speaker 2: the first layer of the skin or the skin isn't damaged,
Speaker 2: then it is, which provides clues as to what and
Speaker 2: how it's happening. What those clues say, it's hard to say.
Speaker 2: Sounds like you have an intuition about that. I would
Speaker 2: be interested in hearing.
Speaker 3: Well, I was just thinking, like, and you just mentioned tattoos.
Speaker 3: I know people when they get tattoos removed. I've seen
Speaker 3: it being done. They use like this laser and it
Speaker 3: kind of like burns. But again, even if it was
Speaker 3: a laser, it burns the actual skin. This is not
Speaker 3: leaving a burn, so and you don't feel it. So
Speaker 3: even with like a sunburn, you would still somewhat feel
Speaker 3: the discomfort of a sunburn. So I don't know That's
Speaker 3: why I was curious about what layer of skin it's on,
Speaker 3: because if it's below a certain layer and it just
Speaker 3: shows up, there's got to be some sort of means
Speaker 3: of Ford to appear. And if it's like you were saying,
Speaker 3: almost like a dark room type scenario, it would almost
Speaker 3: be like almost I would say, heat or to an extent,
Speaker 3: like a laser. Somehow they would be getting under the
Speaker 3: skin without damaging the skin. And I don't understand. That's
Speaker 3: where I'm trying to wrap my head around, like what
Speaker 3: could cause something like that without actually damaging the skin,
Speaker 3: Because even with people with tattoos, you feel the tattoo,
Speaker 3: and if you're getting it removed by a laser, you
Speaker 3: fill that too. So I don't know how you would
Speaker 3: be able to get something underneath someone's skin without actually
Speaker 3: feeling it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's one. There's one precedent we have from science
Speaker 2: that can help us understand at least that this is possible.
Speaker 2: And I believe Stanford researchers did something with chimatics, so
Speaker 2: that's using sound waves to produce patterns, and we typically
Speaker 2: see this in a they call it a Clodney plate experiment,
Speaker 2: whereas a metal of sheet of metal, you pour sand
Speaker 2: on it, and you get the metal sheet of metal
Speaker 2: to vibrate according to a frequency. The sand jumps into
Speaker 2: lines basically or patterns that are determined by the constructive
Speaker 2: interference of the sound waves. So this is like if
Speaker 2: you have a singing bowl or a wineglass full of water,
Speaker 2: you vibrate that you can see these ripples on the
Speaker 2: surface of the water. The same thing happens with the
Speaker 2: sand on the metal plate that's the Clodney plate. And
Speaker 2: so you can produce highly complex patterns through the introduction
Speaker 2: of multiple frequencies of sound that emulate Actually some of
Speaker 2: the patterns were seeing. So the Stanford research applied it
Speaker 2: to I believe, heart cells that were kind of harvested
Speaker 2: from people somehow I get, I don't know how, and
Speaker 2: they put them on plates and they could demonstrate that
Speaker 2: they could move these human body cells into these regular
Speaker 2: patterns that appeared. I mean, there were certain there were
Speaker 2: hexagonal grids of dots, right, and that's classic red grid
Speaker 2: mark phenomenon that that's a proof of concept as to
Speaker 2: how that's possible. Although the red grid mark phenomena, in
Speaker 2: addition to having like hexagonal grids of dots, they have
Speaker 2: the inverse pattern where they shodow diamonds in diamonds of
Speaker 2: the negative space instead of the dots on the positive
Speaker 2: kind of grid marks. So there's an inversion thing happening,
Speaker 2: which would sort of be a complication to applying that
Speaker 2: that chimatics example, to the red grid mark. That's that's
Speaker 2: a clue, even though we're using sound instead of light
Speaker 2: in this case.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the vibrations and everything everyone else around frequencies and
Speaker 3: vibrations and all that within our world. I've often wondered
Speaker 3: if maybe it is somehow related to like vibration, but
Speaker 3: like with a sunburn. And again I'm I'm no expert
Speaker 3: or scientist or anything like that. I'm just a guy.
Speaker 3: But isn't it a sunburn? Kind of it's not like
Speaker 3: broken blood vessels. But isn't it kind of like the
Speaker 3: chemicals release from a thinning layer of like your the
Speaker 3: vessel walls. I don't know what the technical term is,
Speaker 3: it causes a sunburn?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I don't know. You'll have to That sounds
Speaker 2: about right to me, but I'm not I don't I
Speaker 2: don't have that information.
Speaker 3: Well, I just wondering, like if it's something like if
Speaker 3: the sun was able to weaken like your blood vessels,
Speaker 3: like the walls of the blood vessels or whatever, and
Speaker 3: that's what causes the redness. I wonder if whatever's happened,
Speaker 3: if the'se like you said, with a vibration or something,
Speaker 3: I wonder if that's what's weakening the walls to make
Speaker 3: these little patterns. Yep. So I try and think and
Speaker 3: sound intelligent, but I'm a nobody. I don't know anything.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 2: I think it's important actually to follow the intuition. So
Speaker 2: this is one of the insights I would like to
Speaker 2: put forward, and my research is putting forward, is that
Speaker 2: everyone has universal access to an intuition that gives them
Speaker 2: the power to gain insight regarding these interactions we have
Speaker 2: with aliens or non human intelligences. And they also every
Speaker 2: single human has the capacity to mediate those encounters and
Speaker 2: relationships with the non human intelligences or aliens or whatever.
Speaker 2: They have the capacity to mediate those relationships or negotiate
Speaker 2: those relationships for their own benefit and the collective benefit
Speaker 2: of humanity. The reason why I say that is because
Speaker 2: of the precedent of dream shamanism. So this is a
Speaker 2: type of culture. Dreams amount of cultures universally see that
Speaker 2: every single person can engage with these kind of dreamlike domains.
Speaker 2: And so in primitive cultures, the alien story or the
Speaker 2: angel story or the fairy story may have been lumped
Speaker 2: together in something like a dream. And they honor these
Speaker 2: dream experiences as real but also as dream like. And
Speaker 2: they also see that by talking about them just like
Speaker 2: we're doing here and now, and by applying intention to
Speaker 2: them through ritual expression, they can gain insight, gain knowledge.
Speaker 2: And we have proof from these dream shamanic cultures that
Speaker 2: the knowledge that they gain may be scientifically advanced to
Speaker 2: such a degree that they can't know it, or may
Speaker 2: be precognitive so that it can take action like avoiding
Speaker 2: a title wave or something like that for collective benefit.
Speaker 2: So it's a universal quality that is being expressed through
Speaker 2: through primarily intuitive and creative modes of thinking. That our
Speaker 2: Western mainstream culture, because of our focus on the objective,
Speaker 2: repeatable kind of experiments and this highly tech technical jargon,
Speaker 2: we go, oh oh, all that all that intuition is meaningless, Right,
Speaker 2: you have to be an expert to understand this. Actually,
Speaker 2: I say, if we look to dream shamanic cultures as
Speaker 2: healthy examples of relating to these different domains. They do
Speaker 2: so it through universal intuition, and everyone's equally empowered to
Speaker 2: relate to that, and it's not just the experts. So
Speaker 2: that's that's something that's very important to bring up. And
Speaker 2: we touched in on this when we were like, oh, like,
Speaker 2: I'm not like, I'm not an expert on sunburns. You're
Speaker 2: not either, but you're touching into an intuition that is
Speaker 2: likely meaningful and should we follow, that will likely lead
Speaker 2: to at least person meaningful discoveries that are well likely
Speaker 2: I mean, have significance to the group. So I just
Speaker 2: wanted to call that out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I just I try and look at things
Speaker 3: like in a rational sense to try and explain stuff,
Speaker 3: Like you'd said, like people sit on these grid patterns
Speaker 3: from a bench or something like that, that can explain
Speaker 3: a lot of it. But ye, I've seen photos on
Speaker 3: top of a little girl's head and spots under like
Speaker 3: a on a wrist or whatever. There's nothing that you
Speaker 3: could lean that would make those patterns and then they'd
Speaker 3: be there for several days. To me, that's a lot
Speaker 3: of pressure, it seems like, and who would do that
Speaker 3: to their kid just to take a photo. That doesn't
Speaker 3: that doesn't add up when I see the kids involved,
Speaker 3: whether like I could see like the intricate patterns. Someone
Speaker 3: set on something and did it and said, oh look
Speaker 3: what I have. Okay, Well, what's the point of that too? Like, wow,
Speaker 3: you got like a couple of people talking about it
Speaker 3: on the internet. Cool. I mean, it doesn't really, I
Speaker 3: don't see the need of why someone would fake this.
Speaker 3: It doesn't. You're not going to become famous for it,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely, And especially in the context of the lack
Speaker 2: of recognition from mainstream culture, like we were talking about,
Speaker 2: there's it's almost uncanny how researchers are ignoring this topic, right,
Speaker 2: like no one's going to care, right, be like why
Speaker 2: is this mark happening? Uh? You know, in my case
Speaker 2: with with my son, right, he he we try to
Speaker 2: figure it out together and he he stuck his his
Speaker 2: other cheek on the thing of his own accord. It
Speaker 2: wasn't actually you know, it was for him. It was
Speaker 2: a couple of seconds, uh, pressing into it.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: It didn't look painful for him, and he we wanted
Speaker 2: photographs of that afterwards, and it showed up almost exactly
Speaker 2: like the mark. It was. It was really strange for me.
Speaker 2: I tried doing it myself and my skin didn't respond
Speaker 2: the same way as his. For me personally, the response
Speaker 2: of the association with dreams and the mystery and perplexity
Speaker 2: that people have can't be faked.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: So it's like if the kid has this mark and
Speaker 2: they're like, I had this weird dream of this giant
Speaker 2: reptile and a tube coming down and we were in
Speaker 2: a bust without without walls, right, Like those are qualities
Speaker 2: and characteristics that are up dreams like the like the
Speaker 2: vehicle without walls, tubes and strange entities.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: That combination is seen across the like people reporting dreams
Speaker 2: in different channels associated with these marks. It's really hard
Speaker 2: to fake that level of like what does this even mean?
Speaker 2: Like why is this here? And that that connection with
Speaker 2: uh something that feels discernible with the dreams is very
Speaker 2: in firing to me. And that's one of the things
Speaker 2: I'm hoping to elucidate or discover is the patterns of
Speaker 2: what these entity encounters in dreams might signify to us
Speaker 2: as a group.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the lucid dreaming I've heard about, like people I've
Speaker 3: seen it in the group or whatever, and I've seen
Speaker 3: other people talk about it that when they have these things,
Speaker 3: they have like very strange dreams lucid dreaming. And I
Speaker 3: don't know if they experienced it the night that they
Speaker 3: woke up the next morning, or if they've had it
Speaker 3: well since they've had the mark. I don't really know
Speaker 3: how that plays out.
Speaker 2: But.
Speaker 3: I have heard of a lot of people saying they've
Speaker 3: had like really strange dreams, they've had these marks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that happens. I believe there's actually a spectrum of experience,
Speaker 2: So I think there's a function related to people's normal
Speaker 2: dream recall frequency. So that's a term dream scientists use
Speaker 2: to say, hey, how often do you normally remember a dream?
Speaker 2: So if your dream recall frequency is low, you may
Speaker 2: not actually remember remember the dreams associated with the mark
Speaker 2: or the experiences associated with the mark. And one of
Speaker 2: the distinctions I always look forward is dream scientists do
Speaker 2: not define dreams as nocturnal hallucinations anymore. Right, So the
Speaker 2: dreams I hadists say, hey, you can have dream experiences
Speaker 2: while in waking stage. This is a type of conscious
Speaker 2: experience or experience in consciousness. So you can have dreams
Speaker 2: from waking, like day dreams or hypnagogia. So that's this
Speaker 2: phase between sleeping and waking or in the traditional kind
Speaker 2: of conventional understanding of dreams. So I say, actually, as
Speaker 2: possible to have a dream while driving and seeing the
Speaker 2: mark happen, and even though you're driving in in the
Speaker 2: waking phase, you're still having a dreamlike experience. It's unfold.
Speaker 2: So that's another kind of complexity to the inquiry. But
Speaker 2: the sense of people remembering their dreams or not, there
Speaker 2: are high dream recall people, people who remember their dreams
Speaker 2: more frequently. And this is the experience I have with
Speaker 2: working with a lot of the people who respond to me,
Speaker 2: especially asking for the geometric analysis. They say, I go, okay,
Speaker 2: this is a great mark. Did you have any dreams?
Speaker 2: Because they're like, I have so many strange streams all
Speaker 2: the time. Yeah, probably I had strange streams around this mark.
Speaker 2: But my life is full of strange streams, and that's
Speaker 2: that's one of the common responses I get. So, this
Speaker 2: this sense of people remembering strange streams in association with
Speaker 2: the mark, I believe is you know, if they remember
Speaker 2: the strange streams in the association with the mark. They're
Speaker 2: sort of like in between active dreamers and people who
Speaker 2: don't actually remember their dreams frequently, so they they remember
Speaker 2: these ones because they're additionally strange. And then people remember
Speaker 2: their dreams all the time, they have a hard time
Speaker 2: actually pinning down what dream happened the night of the
Speaker 2: mark because they've had a week full of like angel
Speaker 2: visitation dreams or light dreams or these these heightened strange dreams.
Speaker 3: So weirdly enough, and I'm not a BS or anything
Speaker 3: like that, but I vaguely remember a dream last night
Speaker 3: about alien stuff, but I don't remember if I was
Speaker 3: watching it or what. I don't like, I vaguely remember dreams.
Speaker 3: I'm not like elucid dreamer, but I don't know because
Speaker 3: I knew we were going to have this talk today
Speaker 3: or whatever. But I just remember part of my dream
Speaker 3: there was something to do with like aliens in the background,
Speaker 3: and that was all. It was, like, I don't know,
Speaker 3: had nothing to do with the dream. I don't evenmember
Speaker 3: what the dream was even about, but I just remember
Speaker 3: vaguely that that was mentioned somewhere in my dream. There
Speaker 3: was something going on in the background about aliens.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's really interesting. That's very similar to a
Speaker 2: lot of the dreams I have when I do dream
Speaker 2: work or hypnosis with people. These are meaningful events, these
Speaker 2: kind of encounters with people who have experiences in dreams
Speaker 2: and things like that. So I experienced dreams in association
Speaker 2: with my clients who come to me their dream people
Speaker 2: or whatever their spirit GUIDs. They sometimes talk to me
Speaker 2: and their dreams. I don't have a full consciousness as
Speaker 2: to what those mean necessarily, and a lot of my
Speaker 2: experienced dreams, like the dream I had the night I
Speaker 2: received the anomalist geometric body mark that I call a
Speaker 2: dawson a line phenomenon dial d al. I had a
Speaker 2: series of dreams where these aliens or non human intelligences
Speaker 2: were sort of just there in the dream space, and
Speaker 2: I didn't have a lot of visibility as to what
Speaker 2: was going on. And I came back from the dream
Speaker 2: and I said, hey, this my dreaming self as I
Speaker 2: returned to my waking self had specific intuitions within it,
Speaker 2: and I was convinced this was a lucid dream. I
Speaker 2: was like, this is a lucid dream. I interacted with
Speaker 2: that deities, but actually all I remember is a dream
Speaker 2: that's very similar to what you described, that something happening
Speaker 2: and there's aliens in the background, and there's not a
Speaker 2: lot of content to sink your teeth into. But I
Speaker 2: had those convictions upon entering into waking, So I think
Speaker 2: a lot of these interactions are happening below the surface
Speaker 2: of consciousness and they don't really need to have a
Speaker 2: full on conscious interaction with us. The other thing I
Speaker 2: would say about your dream experience, and this is one
Speaker 2: of the stranger things I've experienced working with people's dreams,
Speaker 2: is they can be we both personally or personally meaningful
Speaker 2: and trans personally meaningful. So rather than saying is this
Speaker 2: is this dream of aliens real or just a dream?
Speaker 2: I say is this personally significant and trans personally significant?
Speaker 2: Because oftentimes we don't have a way to objectively measure
Speaker 2: these things or have repeatable experiences. But the distinction between
Speaker 2: personally significant meaning it's just just related to meet my subconscious,
Speaker 2: my desires, whatever, or is it trans personally significant meaning
Speaker 2: does it go beyond the personal psyche? Is this in
Speaker 2: the realm of collective unconscious? Is this in the realm
Speaker 2: of spirit that has the capacity to impact our objective world?
Speaker 2: But is primarily psycho spiritual, and so in that way,
Speaker 2: these dreams that are personally sort of insignificant man actually
Speaker 2: be trans personally significant in a way we don't understand yet.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like I said, with mine, I I vaguely remember.
Speaker 3: I think I was talking to like my daughter or
Speaker 3: something like that. I think like a TV in the
Speaker 3: background had like alien. I don't know. Like like I said,
Speaker 3: I don't. I didn't take it as anything significant. I
Speaker 3: just I vaguely remember bits and pieces of my dreams
Speaker 3: of for whatever reason why I will go up to
Speaker 3: that that's the one bit of a dream that I remember.
Speaker 2: Yep, interestingly, Like I didn't, I didn't remember my dreams
Speaker 2: from last night. But my wife talked. My wife is
Speaker 2: now a source of dream passages. She she'll have dreams
Speaker 2: about aliens or UFOs and tell me about them and like, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: this is actually personally meaningful to me. She's like, I
Speaker 2: don't know what this means, Like, oh, okay, this makes
Speaker 2: sense in the context of what I'm doing today in
Speaker 2: terms of talking to people. So there's a lot of ways,
Speaker 2: a lot of ways they can talk to us. Other
Speaker 2: thing that I found interesting in working with so many
Speaker 2: dreams is sometimes the dreams are meaningless in this moment,
Speaker 2: like wes like, what does this even mean? Why am
Speaker 2: I having this? And then weeks later, months later, years later,
Speaker 2: you'll discover their precognitive or you discover their specific meaning there.
Speaker 2: So that's another reason to pay attention to dreams and
Speaker 2: to record them is you never know what ends up happening,
Speaker 2: and you never know what in retrospect is meaningful. And
Speaker 2: so that's one of the advice I would give to
Speaker 2: people is to just pay attention more. And as you
Speaker 2: pay attention more to the dreams and their correspondence with
Speaker 2: waking life, they start to talk more to you because
Speaker 2: they know you're paying attention to them.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I always try and remember my dreams if I do,
Speaker 3: and like I said, I I'm not one that remembers
Speaker 3: too much, but sometimes I remember some goofy things and
Speaker 3: laugh about it the next day the help of the
Speaker 3: extent of where I go with my dream patterns. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you mentioned dial That's something that I know you've been
Speaker 3: looking into as well, if you want to dive into that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the dial body mark I received on the
Speaker 2: summer soul sye, not this summer, but the summer before
Speaker 2: and I personally associated with the red grid mark in
Speaker 2: that CE five style invitation, I gave explicit permission. I
Speaker 2: recorded it to the mark makers according to the principle
Speaker 2: of not harm for the benefit of humanity and a
Speaker 2: number of other guide rails that put on that experience.
Speaker 2: But I recorded this invitation, and then months later I
Speaker 2: had a series of three dreams that I felt like
Speaker 2: were visitation dreams, and they had certain qualities that were
Speaker 2: different than my normal dreams, generally a sense of luminous darkness,
Speaker 2: a sense of no that their entities here, but I
Speaker 2: can't see anything. It's not like it's not like a
Speaker 2: normal dream where there's visual content. It's just just black.
Speaker 2: But I know everything about it. I know there's people there.
Speaker 2: I can gain information. If you ask me what color
Speaker 2: of robes these people were wearing, I might be able
Speaker 2: to tell you or something like that. But in the
Speaker 2: experience itself, it's just darkness. And I had a series
Speaker 2: of these three dreams, and on the last one I
Speaker 2: remember coming back from the space and being in the
Speaker 2: presence of an entity I would call a guide and
Speaker 2: coming back through what I would term to be something
Speaker 2: like a hypnogogic image tree, so that's in between waking
Speaker 2: and sleeping. The way I perceived it was an endless
Speaker 2: series of gray hallways with many doors, and I walked
Speaker 2: through that, and I walked through one of the doorways
Speaker 2: back into my here and now. And my intuition said,
Speaker 2: you had an extremely lucid dream. You will not remember
Speaker 2: this whatsoever. Do not remember This's not important to remember this.
Speaker 2: So I didn't record that dream, and I forgot about
Speaker 2: it until I went into the sauna. I looked down
Speaker 2: on my leg. I saw seven dots, very regular, very
Speaker 2: small formation, and it's just had this whole intuition of
Speaker 2: meaning I remember the dream. I at the same time
Speaker 2: I was remembering that, I said, this is red gridmark,
Speaker 2: and I was like, no, this is not red gridmark.
Speaker 2: The dots look different. So I videoed it, I photoed it,
Speaker 2: I recorded my feelings around it. I knew there was
Speaker 2: some sort of geometric messaging in there, but I was
Speaker 2: unable to discern what that was. And it's sort of
Speaker 2: like how do you make sense of it? Like how
Speaker 2: do you figure out is there geometry?
Speaker 1: And here.
Speaker 2: You know, I hadn't done geometry in a while, so
Speaker 2: I didn't. I was at I was at a loss
Speaker 2: as to what to do with it. So after photographing it,
Speaker 2: I just moved on with my life until the winter solstice.
Speaker 2: Same sort of dream stuff happened, these luminous dark spaces,
Speaker 2: and then being came to me again. Dream characters guides whatever.
Speaker 2: They said you want to They said, we've been observing you.
Speaker 2: You you're working towards the betterment of humanity. You're you're
Speaker 2: you're working in service to others. We know you want
Speaker 2: to change how the world is. If you work with us,
Speaker 2: we'll help you. We we shape reality. Just follow our instructions.
Speaker 2: And then at the time I thought, okay, well I
Speaker 2: have to meditate more. I was engaged in a variety
Speaker 2: of practices and I thought, okay, I'll do these sort
Speaker 2: of magical practices. Actually is what I think thought they
Speaker 2: were asking me to do. But as an aside, the
Speaker 2: next day, I looked at sacred geometry videos on YouTube.
Speaker 2: Went to bed the next day and they said, hey,
Speaker 2: you know, you did exactly what we asked. You learned
Speaker 2: about sacred geometry, like this is a first for us.
Speaker 2: Good job, we're building rapport. You're understanding now over the
Speaker 2: next few weeks, do exactly what we say, right, don't
Speaker 2: add your own spin to it like you normally do.
Speaker 2: Do exactly like we said, like you did before, which
Speaker 2: was just you watched these sacred geometry videos. You took
Speaker 2: the action we wanted. Just keep doing that. And so
Speaker 2: I learned how to focus on what they wanted or
Speaker 2: the interactions there, and I was guided through this experience
Speaker 2: of building learning how mendalas work analyzing crop circles. They
Speaker 2: had me analyze dozens of red gridmark phenomena. This is
Speaker 2: where that experience is where I gained a lot of
Speaker 2: insight around the technical nature of the application of the mark.
Speaker 2: That's where I became convinced we can build a model
Speaker 2: here of the technology. And then they had me analyze
Speaker 2: geometric patterns in UAP documentation, so that's UFO's flying information
Speaker 2: or UFOs pulsating in specific patterns, and how to discern
Speaker 2: those messages. They had me do ruler and compass geometry
Speaker 2: on top of that to gain meaning from it. And
Speaker 2: then after all of that, it was probably twenty days
Speaker 2: of very obsessive work, they said, now you're ready to
Speaker 2: do your body mark. Get other photos. Start analyzing it,
Speaker 2: try to build a ruler and compass construction of this.
Speaker 2: If you do that, then you notice a mathematical object.
Speaker 2: So if I can build a mathematical a geometric object
Speaker 2: using only the ruler and compass, and it's the same format, shape,
Speaker 2: and size of the actual mark, then I can know
Speaker 2: that that body mark is actually a mathematical geometric object
Speaker 2: that's communicated through the physical means of my skin, but
Speaker 2: is actually something else than just an artifact of technology.
Speaker 2: It's actually a math communication. So they had me do that,
Speaker 2: and I built a really I would say, a naive
Speaker 2: and primitive math construction. I went left to right with
Speaker 2: his dots, and I said, this dot is equal to
Speaker 2: that dot, and the interval between them has a very
Speaker 2: specific proportion to the interval of the whole formation, And
Speaker 2: the smaller dots on the right are in golden ratio
Speaker 2: proportion to the other dots, which means that's a signifier
Speaker 2: that whoever made the mark understands beauty and mathematics. And
Speaker 2: I built that construction. I applied it a congruence tess mean,
Speaker 2: I took photos of the mark, and I took the
Speaker 2: ruler and compass construction and it overlaid them on top
Speaker 2: of each other, and it was a perfect fit. And
Speaker 2: I go, this is it. This is a math communication.
Speaker 2: From that moment on, I've been offering services of geometric
Speaker 2: analysis to body mark experiences, generally for free. I ask
Speaker 2: for a donation just because it takes time. People pay
Speaker 2: me or not. And I offer this and people like
Speaker 2: that because they go, oh, my body mark actually is geometric.
Speaker 2: These are its principles, These are the characteristics of the geometry,
Speaker 2: and it helps people understand that yes, this is indeed
Speaker 2: intelligent communication in some way, shape or form. So it
Speaker 2: adds a lot a dimension of meaning to it. So
Speaker 2: that was my experience with the body mark itself. After
Speaker 2: discerning the geometry within the body mark, I said, hey,
Speaker 2: this has got to happen to somebody else. I have
Speaker 2: to figure out if other people have experienced it. And
Speaker 2: I immediately found ah, two other experiencers that had similar dreams,
Speaker 2: that had similar geometry, that had the similar qualities that
Speaker 2: I have it. And so at that point I said,
Speaker 2: this is a phenomenon. Let's let's let's make an acronym
Speaker 2: dots in the line, because that's what I was calling it.
Speaker 2: So that's the dial mark, and then since then I've
Speaker 2: I've analyzed about a dozen marks from people very similar phenomenon.
Speaker 2: Sometimes they're sometimes they're clear marks, but puncture puncture wounds.
Speaker 2: Sometimes they are big formations, sometimes they're small formations, but
Speaker 2: they always have a sort of linear quality. There's always dots,
Speaker 2: there's always puncture wounds. There's sometimes association with entity dreams.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: Frequently it's tall grays, and again it's associated not with
Speaker 2: a sense of harm necessarily. There was one experiencer who
Speaker 2: reported a sense of scratching. I associated a memory of
Speaker 2: the feeling of a tattoo with these, but this experiences
Speaker 2: that it hurt, It felt like a puncture wound. But
Speaker 2: they also attributed miraculous healing of their leg to the marking,
Speaker 2: and they said, maybe that's why it was painful, because
Speaker 2: there was a miraculous healing of the nerves in the leg.
Speaker 2: Itself good with it. So I've been looking into this
Speaker 2: mark primarily because I've experienced it. I believe it's a
Speaker 2: phenomena and that is meaningful associated with dream like encounters
Speaker 2: with non human intelligence. I believe it is mathematical communication,
Speaker 2: and I believe it is actually associated with UAP sightings.
Speaker 2: The reason why I say this is the geometry associated
Speaker 2: with the Doston A line. So if you map that
Speaker 2: geometry and you draw that like circles on a line,
Speaker 2: you can do the same thing with the photographs of
Speaker 2: the Phoenix lights. And I cover this all in in
Speaker 2: my book Missing Time Found by the way, But the
Speaker 2: Phoenix lights are orbs of light that are in a
Speaker 2: geometric formation that you can generally draw a line through,
Speaker 2: and they generally have the same proportions in geometric themes
Speaker 2: as Dowson A line. So there's a geometric connection between
Speaker 2: these body mark phenomena and these geometric orb phenomena that
Speaker 2: everyone has seen. I mean, that case is very famous,
Speaker 2: so I believe there's a connection there. I'm sort of
Speaker 2: collecting data and trying to figure out what this actually
Speaker 2: is and how to work with this in a deeper way.
Speaker 2: So I know I said a lot to that. I'm
Speaker 2: curious about where you'd like to go next with this
Speaker 2: this topic.
Speaker 3: When you did the geometry, I know they say that
Speaker 3: math is the universal language. Can you is it possible
Speaker 3: to decipher what they're actually saying by using like the
Speaker 3: the designs and everything. Is there a way that it
Speaker 3: could be done, like calculated into figuring out what these
Speaker 3: patterns are actually supposed to mean, if they mean anything.
Speaker 2: That is a very loaded question. I love this topic.
Speaker 2: It's a very loaded question. And we'll take a step
Speaker 2: back and talk about how math is the universal language
Speaker 2: and how it can encode meaning. One of the so
Speaker 2: we have this notion in common culture that math is
Speaker 2: the universal language that may be used to communicate with ets,
Speaker 2: and generally SETI, or the movie Contact with Jodie Foster
Speaker 2: Carl Sagan kind of exemplifies these ideas. SETI is the
Speaker 2: search for extraterrestrial intelligence. They use radio telescopes to look
Speaker 2: for messages and sometimes send messages using math. The question
Speaker 2: is what type of math is universal? And one of
Speaker 2: the things that I've been paying attention.
Speaker 1: To is.
Speaker 2: This quality of expert versus not expert. So we touched
Speaker 2: in on this earlier right. So to understand most of
Speaker 2: the messaging that the SETI researchers put out, you have
Speaker 2: to be an expert in math, You have to be
Speaker 2: an expert in science, in these particularly highly objective forms
Speaker 2: of science and math that have a lot of assumptions
Speaker 2: built into them, and generally is right. So we have
Speaker 2: this notion that maybe a message might be a pulsation.
Speaker 2: The contact movie shows like repeated prime numbers, and inside
Speaker 2: of that wave is a lot of data that then
Speaker 2: becomes characters like glyphs or whatever, that then can be
Speaker 2: translated into mathematical or linguistic communications. That is an abstract
Speaker 2: understanding of math as the universal language. This is something
Speaker 2: I'm positing or hypothesizing. I'm gathering research in terms of
Speaker 2: mathematical education and the history of math to support these claims.
Speaker 2: But I say that when we think about encoding meaning
Speaker 2: in math, that is an abstraction that requires experts. But
Speaker 2: the universal way of working with math is generally geometry.
Speaker 2: And so we're thinking about objects in space. Everyone knows
Speaker 2: what a line is, a dot is, a circle is,
Speaker 2: and these seem to emerge out of the base level
Speaker 2: of our consciousness. How we perceive space and time is
Speaker 2: some way intimately tied with the nature of geometry, and
Speaker 2: that's like Euclidian geometry. So that's very basic. The way
Speaker 2: we make meaning from that is twofold one is we
Speaker 2: can just look at the geometry, and anyone can do
Speaker 2: that in discern feelings, ascetic values so there's beauty associated
Speaker 2: with the geometry, feelings associated with it. The things you
Speaker 2: think about it are actually a communication and are actually
Speaker 2: one dimension of meaning of this math as a universal language.
Speaker 2: So anyone, the non expert who's never done geometry can
Speaker 2: look at the dotsin a lined body mark or red
Speaker 2: grid mark and go, oh okay, there's meaning coming off
Speaker 2: of it. And that comes through primarily your intuition, like
Speaker 2: we were talking about, Translating that intuition into an objective
Speaker 2: statement requires sophistication and abstraction, but that base level of
Speaker 2: direct apprehension of the direct intuition you experienced while looking
Speaker 2: at this geometry is a communication that I would argue
Speaker 2: is as meaningful as the encoded message. And there's two
Speaker 2: precedents I used to substantiate that claim. What is Carl
Speaker 2: Jung's work with mandalas an active imagination, and the other
Speaker 2: is the Tibetan Buddhist practice of using mandalas as a
Speaker 2: domain for essentially telepathic encounters with divinity. Right, So they
Speaker 2: have these mandalas, there's a Buddha inside of it or
Speaker 2: a spirit. You meditate on that, and then that Buddha
Speaker 2: or spirit sort of tea you things, and it happens
Speaker 2: in a very imaginative or intuitive way. But that's actually
Speaker 2: something that religion has been based on. So we have
Speaker 2: these two examples that actual geometry can lead to direct
Speaker 2: mind to mind interaction with beings that at least exists
Speaker 2: in the collective unconscious, that exists outside of your personal unconscious.
Speaker 2: So at that level, you do right now can look
Speaker 2: at the dots in the line or redgrid mark and
Speaker 2: maybe imagine work with a little bit of the geometry
Speaker 2: to relate it back to the circle. That's the really
Speaker 2: what I'm doing with applying this geometry. If it's related
Speaker 2: to this circle, then it's related to a mandala. If
Speaker 2: it's related to a mandala, then you can have an
Speaker 2: imaginative and intuitive interaction with something that is is communicative
Speaker 2: and real at least that collective unconscious level one side
Speaker 2: of it. The next step is actually figuring out do
Speaker 2: these things in code, meaning in terms of messages, in
Speaker 2: terms of math or not. And so there's there's two
Speaker 2: things I would respond to. What is the docent line
Speaker 2: and these UAP geometries actually do seem to communicate mathematical insights,
Speaker 2: and so I would put forward the work of Jimmy Blanchett,
Speaker 2: who works with radio communications and receives UAP manifestations that
Speaker 2: kind of instruct him on geometry. He or on the
Speaker 2: mathematical nature of the universe, and that there's actually communications
Speaker 2: coming through about the nature of mathematics through the geometry
Speaker 2: that I'm seeing. He's analyzing his geometry using math, using number,
Speaker 2: and I'm doing it through geometry, and we're syncretistically collaborating.
Speaker 2: So I believe he's actually receiving the same types of
Speaker 2: communications I am through the dots in a line. He's
Speaker 2: seeing it through UFO videos. But we're saying the same
Speaker 2: things in different mathematical languages. So there's this whole body
Speaker 2: of math that's coming through that has to do with
Speaker 2: how the universe works, and it has to do with
Speaker 2: the mathematical nature of the universe, And for his messaging,
Speaker 2: it's bringing all of our mathematical and physical constants into
Speaker 2: a geometric en harmonic system where everything makes sense. It's like,
Speaker 2: why is a mile five thousand feet or whatever? And
Speaker 2: if you if you start getting the right units, you
Speaker 2: start to see that things are implied by the geometry
Speaker 2: of the universe in a very regular way that isn't
Speaker 2: elucidated by the strange physical constants that we have now
Speaker 2: in terms of our unit system. So that's what he's getting.
Speaker 2: I also have the hypothesis and I'm working with that
Speaker 2: now to see about encoded meaning. So that's like binary
Speaker 2: code or other codes in these phenomena. That's one of
Speaker 2: the hypotheses I have looking into. After applying them ruler
Speaker 2: and compass geometry to the UAPs and the dosonal line,
Speaker 2: I notice these very strange deviations from geometric pattern. So
Speaker 2: I can apply the same geometric pattern to multiple photos
Speaker 2: of UAPs and dosonal line and the same framework will
Speaker 2: touch each of the dots on dotsonal line in different
Speaker 2: ways or UAPs, and the dots will be directly above
Speaker 2: or directly below, or directly left or right, or one
Speaker 2: or two dots away from these places of geometric oherence,
Speaker 2: which signifies to me a sense of deviation from a form,
Speaker 2: which then says, hey, this is a one or a
Speaker 2: zero in binary. To me, I think it's actually that
Speaker 2: something like binary code, but with multiple not just binary.
Speaker 2: It's something like hexadecimal or something like that. Again, this
Speaker 2: takes time to research. I've looked through maybe a dozen
Speaker 2: examples of this geometry, I've discerned there is a pattern.
Speaker 2: I need probably ten times more data to even discern
Speaker 2: what that pattern or how that encoding system works. So,
Speaker 2: once again a long answer to a very simple question.
Speaker 3: I was just thinking, like, and I don't know the
Speaker 3: year I know I was back. I believe in the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 3: It was over in England. It was one of the
Speaker 3: US bases or whatever is when they chase this UFO
Speaker 3: through the woods, supposedly, and they claimed when they got
Speaker 3: to the craft, there's a bunch of patterns and like
Speaker 3: stuff that they could see when they did, and the
Speaker 3: guy to brighten them out. I believe he was one
Speaker 3: of the military guys. And it's like you said, it's
Speaker 3: almost like binary code, and there's a bunch of marketings
Speaker 3: and stuff all over. They almost said like high hybrid
Speaker 3: glysts or whatever type designs on this craft. Because they
Speaker 3: were it was small, they were able to touch it.
Speaker 3: I've heard different variations of this story. And the last
Speaker 3: I knew they had these binary codes and they were
Speaker 3: trying to crack whatever the code was for what they
Speaker 3: had saw when they touched this thing. And this was
Speaker 3: again back in the eighties. So I thought it was
Speaker 3: weird that if it was using numbers and like a
Speaker 3: binary type system, maybe this is something to do that
Speaker 3: like what people are having now, like you're trying to
Speaker 3: figure out, like with geometry and everything else, maybe there's
Speaker 3: a certain had her into all this that interconnects it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that I believe that encounter was the rendellsham like
Speaker 2: Forrest encounter. Someone did. They had experience with the UFO,
Speaker 2: They dissey glyphs, and then one of the experiencers kind
Speaker 2: of says they went into trance and then wrote ones
Speaker 2: and zeros and forgot about it for about a decade
Speaker 2: or whatever, and then had some scientists decoded this these
Speaker 2: ones and zeros into a message that had geographic locations
Speaker 2: in them. And again Jimmy Blanchet's been looking into that
Speaker 2: that message and been using the geographic placements to he's
Speaker 2: actually seeing the same geometries he's seeing in the UAPs,
Speaker 2: which are highly similar to the geometries and geometric messaging.
Speaker 2: I'm saying he's seeing that in the placement of these
Speaker 2: geographical locations. When he uses the nautical mile as the unit.
Speaker 2: The nautical mile is not like a kilometer. It's not
Speaker 2: like like our imperial mile we have in the States.
Speaker 2: It's based on spherical geometry. It is based on division
Speaker 2: of the sphere into degrees, and so there's a high
Speaker 2: degree of like geometry in it. So when you apply
Speaker 2: those you you start to see these patterns emerge. And
Speaker 2: you apply that to the same to the geographic placements
Speaker 2: in the Rendelsham message, that's what he's seeing, so that
Speaker 2: it is a it is a big pattern I often
Speaker 2: think about. I mean, I personally got into this experience
Speaker 2: with the prejudice against binary or encoded messages. I said,
Speaker 2: there's Personally I thought, you know, there can't be I mean,
Speaker 2: it's just so strange to think that eats wuld communicate,
Speaker 2: or non human and intelligences would communicate through binary that
Speaker 2: we could then interpret. And I became convinced it was
Speaker 2: the direct mind of mind communication through the mandala type,
Speaker 2: through this kind of beautiful geometry. Like you have an
Speaker 2: experience looking at the geometry. It's an artistic, spiritual experience,
Speaker 2: like responding to it, it's emotional, it changes you. But
Speaker 2: there's no real encoded message in there. But I'm actually
Speaker 2: now seeing that et Nhi Communications oftentimes have as many
Speaker 2: dimensions of meaning as you can pack in there. I
Speaker 2: mean meaning that they're fractal, they're efficient in their communications.
Speaker 2: So why wouldn't a communication be personally meaningful, transpersonally meaningful,
Speaker 2: meaningful at rod geometry, and meaningful in terms of it's
Speaker 2: encoded message. The message I would put forward that I'm
Speaker 2: working with in terms of my mission here is that
Speaker 2: you can start with the dimension of meaning that makes
Speaker 2: sense to you, right, We don't need to decode these
Speaker 2: messages to start working with and making sense of it.
Speaker 2: Often these times there's messages have a quality of mystery
Speaker 2: to them that feel like they'll never be solved. But
Speaker 2: the experience I have is working, even with the emotional
Speaker 2: response to some of the messages, even contemplating how strange
Speaker 2: it is, just exposing oneself to these anomalousts experiences is
Speaker 2: meaningful and just as meaningful as perhaps decoding a message.
Speaker 3: I think with this topic in general, I think, to
Speaker 3: be honest, like, it's hard to fathom how everyone is
Speaker 3: having these and like you we talked earlier, a lot
Speaker 3: of people might not even notice there's a reason for it.
Speaker 3: And the fact that again I go back to no
Speaker 3: one's even really actively mainstream wise talking about this. There
Speaker 3: has to be an intelligence behind it. If you can
Speaker 3: rule out some of the patterns from someone leaning on something,
Speaker 3: for every one of those that are ruled out, there's
Speaker 3: still some that you can't explain, and there's some sort
Speaker 3: of physical intelligence behind it. But the designs and the
Speaker 3: patterns and everything else, and even now you're with your
Speaker 3: geometry and everything, I don't know how to get anything
Speaker 3: rolling for as people in the mainstream to take this seriously.
Speaker 3: I've mentioned it before on another episode with it. It
Speaker 3: was a doing a podcast with a bigger podcast, and
Speaker 3: I brought that up. They'd never heard of it before,
Speaker 3: and they looked into it while we were on the episode,
Speaker 3: and I expected then to eventually like do their own
Speaker 3: episode on and they never have. So it's like even
Speaker 3: other podcasters, I only know of one other podcast that
Speaker 3: I've been talking to recently that have actually even had
Speaker 3: an episode, whether they actually interviewed justin before I ever did. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and we've talked about maybe working together and doing a
Speaker 3: updated podcast for that too, just to try and bring
Speaker 3: more attention to it. But at the same time, there's
Speaker 3: not a whole lot of new information to put out there,
Speaker 3: because there's just not a whole lot, Like you're one
Speaker 3: of the first people that I know is actually researching
Speaker 3: into the whole phenomena.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's self frustrating to me because I'm convinced,
Speaker 2: right we can we can analyze, especially the red grid mark.
Speaker 2: We could deduce how many different technical intelligences and how
Speaker 2: many different designers of those marks there are. I mean,
Speaker 2: there are clear kind of flourishes that you associate with artistry, right, Like,
Speaker 2: there's clearly technical applications. There's some people on the other
Speaker 2: side making the mark that are good at it and
Speaker 2: some people that are bad at it, and you know,
Speaker 2: you can see who they're interacting with, and it's the
Speaker 2: same guys making the same type of mark here as
Speaker 2: over there, basically, and to have that level of capacity
Speaker 2: and insight into this strange phenomena that will clearly lead
Speaker 2: us to some level of inter dimensional advanced technology, Like
Speaker 2: that's the conclusion you, like I have to come to.
Speaker 2: Why we're not studying this and why we're still just
Speaker 2: talking about whether or not UAPs are real or whether
Speaker 2: or not this phenomena are real is very frustrating to me.
Speaker 2: But it's something that we have to be patient with.
Speaker 2: And I think a lot about this too, about the
Speaker 2: response of the mainstream about how everyone might really be
Speaker 2: having these experiences. I put forward in my book Missing
Speaker 2: Time found that all of these experiences, the primary precedent
Speaker 2: for et A Nhi contact is a dream experience, actually,
Speaker 2: And the reason why I talk about this, and I'm
Speaker 2: talking about this now is that I believe that the
Speaker 2: way we treat dreams is the way we're treating et
Speaker 2: nhi contact, and that we in the West and especially
Speaker 2: Western science, for the last only three hundred years, have
Speaker 2: had a strong bias against dreams as being real or meaningful.
Speaker 2: We say, no, no, no, they're they're just fantasies of
Speaker 2: the mind that are meaningless, and if they are meaningful,
Speaker 2: there's simply wish fulfillment, like Freud says, and we don't
Speaker 2: have as a culture. We've been sort of trained away
Speaker 2: and working with our dreams, and we've been trained away
Speaker 2: from the awareness that we are each powerful beings in
Speaker 2: the dream world with the capacity to both navigate and
Speaker 2: negotiate our collective fortune through this sort of mediating relationships
Speaker 2: with non human intelligences. In traditional dreaming, cultures. The non
Speaker 2: human intelligences include the wisdom of the Earth, include the
Speaker 2: wisdom of the ancestors, include you know, like the voice
Speaker 2: of the forest, and the voice of the forest will
Speaker 2: tell you where to find food, where to avoid danger,
Speaker 2: that sort of thing. And they also talk to non
Speaker 2: human intelligence is like we might imagine aliens and things
Speaker 2: like that. So we in the Western science we don't
Speaker 2: even know how to relate to our closest neighbors, like
Speaker 2: the wisdom of the forest and mother Earth, that sort
Speaker 2: of thing through the dream So how could we even
Speaker 2: imagine working with something so exotic as these phenomena, And
Speaker 2: yet it seems that these things are real and want
Speaker 2: us to communicate. That's the conclusion I have with the
Speaker 2: body mark phenomena. They're inviting us and they're saying, hey,
Speaker 2: don't forget to work with us, don't forget to work
Speaker 2: with these dreamlike ways of knowing, and they're reinviting us
Speaker 2: to that conversation. That's in part why I think there's.
Speaker 4: So much mystery associated with like the cryptids or the UAPs,
Speaker 4: is there's a hook in there to draw us and
Speaker 4: to expand us from this very limited worldview to one where.
Speaker 2: We see ourselves as equal participants in this unfolding relationship
Speaker 2: between humanity and the non human intelligences, and I think
Speaker 2: we feel disempowered. I think we feel alienated in those
Speaker 2: experiences because we've not been trained. We're not even aware
Speaker 2: that the these things are possible, primarily because of Western
Speaker 2: the history of Western science and really diving deep into
Speaker 2: the objective material reality around us.
Speaker 3: You'd mentioned the UAPs and cryptids and the dimensions and everything.
Speaker 3: That's the route that I've actually doved down into recently
Speaker 3: a lot because completely off topic, but when I've interviewed
Speaker 3: other people have had these experiences or whatever with what
Speaker 3: they believe to be cryptids or even with extraterrestrials. I'm
Speaker 3: not even one hundred percent sure that the extraterrestrials are
Speaker 3: actually from space anymore. I think that they're more interdimensional.
Speaker 3: And that's how I feel with a lot of these
Speaker 3: encounters with what people believe or some sort of cryptids
Speaker 3: or whatever, and I think it could all go back
Speaker 3: into the same type of entity in itself flake even
Speaker 3: with the spirit realm. I think there's something on the
Speaker 3: other side that we bleed into. I know people see
Speaker 3: shadow people what if that's just another person, but they're
Speaker 3: just on that different spectrum than what we are. They're
Speaker 3: on that other realm and they're bleeding into our world.
Speaker 3: Same thing, well, I could say with the ghosts, same
Speaker 3: thing with these people. Say they bigfoot, then all of
Speaker 3: a sudden it just disappears in these lights in the skies,
Speaker 3: and it almost to me sounds like it's not so
Speaker 3: much from outer space. It's more or less from a
Speaker 3: different dimension that we just can't see into, and we
Speaker 3: just see bits and pieces when they interact with us.
Speaker 2: Yes, I would tend to agree with that, the notion
Speaker 2: that these beings have flowing through space from different planets
Speaker 2: to interact with us, does it? I mean Jacques Valet
Speaker 2: in his books like Dimension or Passports to Mogonia, really
Speaker 2: ask the question like, how can it be that space
Speaker 2: travelers can fly light years and mess up a surgery
Speaker 2: so bad that you know they leave marks on the body.
Speaker 2: As a hypnotist, I often think about this because most
Speaker 2: of the time people say missing time or the fact
Speaker 2: that we don't remember these experiences is caused by either
Speaker 2: alien mind control or they're traumatic events that we're repressing.
Speaker 2: If it's alien mind control, Like, if the aliens are
Speaker 2: actually controlling our mind, why can I as a hypnotist,
Speaker 2: you know, in the twenty first century, Like we're still
Speaker 2: using cars and fossil fuels. We still don't know exactly
Speaker 2: how the brain works, Like, how can I counteract these
Speaker 2: the advanced technology of alien mind control? And my conclusion is,
Speaker 2: if it were the case that I was working with
Speaker 2: alien mind control from such advanced civilizations, I would not
Speaker 2: be able to support experiencers to remember their experiences. I
Speaker 2: put forward the notion that we don't remember these experiences
Speaker 2: for the same exact reason we don't remember our rem
Speaker 2: dreaming every night. And I say that because REM dreams
Speaker 2: have fantastic beings, impossible physics, and things like that. Likewise,
Speaker 2: REM dream is associated with sleep paralysis. Alien abduction is
Speaker 2: associated with sleep paralysis. Most of the UFO sightings are
Speaker 2: seen around those times too, So something is happening in
Speaker 2: terms of the bleedover of dimensions in association with the
Speaker 2: dreaming mind. That's what I would hypothesize here. Interestingly, this
Speaker 2: whole notion of are they physically real in the way
Speaker 2: they appear or is there a deeper reality there? People
Speaker 2: have had this conversation for centuries, almost millennia. I have
Speaker 2: the earliest example of this kind of question I found
Speaker 2: in talk in the Neoplatonic philosophy, so that's late antiquity,
Speaker 2: that's like three to five hundred eighty. People were talking
Speaker 2: about god visitations, so like that the ancient Greek gods,
Speaker 2: particularly the goddess Sclepius, who is described as a shape
Speaker 2: shifting reptilian being who lives in the sky. Right, some
Speaker 2: people were like, Oh, this shape shifting reptilian visited me
Speaker 2: in my dream space and it felt really real. And
Speaker 2: other people were like, well, we think that that might
Speaker 2: be the case, but we also think that this may
Speaker 2: be a representation of a formless consciousness, and you're just
Speaker 2: applying the forms of Greek philosophy or Greek mythology to
Speaker 2: this formless damon or angelic being, and it might be
Speaker 2: something else. And so there has been this dialogue around
Speaker 2: whether the forms we have perceived of these non human
Speaker 2: intelligences are actually that or are they simply just rejections
Speaker 2: or kind of cloaks that these formless beings where when
Speaker 2: they visit us. And my conclusion, I don't have a conclusion,
Speaker 2: but sort of both is how I interact with it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't. I don't really have an opinion one
Speaker 3: way or the other on certain topics because I've seen
Speaker 3: stuff I can't explain it. I know other people see
Speaker 3: things they can't explain it. I've actually interviewed someone last year.
Speaker 3: I've reached out to them again, and you'd mentioned something
Speaker 3: earlier about when you had your dreams, and they were
Speaker 3: he was he believes to be have been abducted and
Speaker 3: they were showing him things as well. And he's also
Speaker 3: a doctor. He's from Greece, and he actually has had
Speaker 3: people send him stuff that they found in their body,
Speaker 3: like implants or whatever. And he was able to confirm
Speaker 3: that the material from this crashed little orb they found,
Speaker 3: he had some of it sent to him, and then
Speaker 3: the patterns to this that was actually in someone's foot,
Speaker 3: I believe it was. It's basically intelligently made, like it's
Speaker 3: almost like the same type of materials, and it was
Speaker 3: like the first conclusive things from that he could prove
Speaker 3: that these implants were they had like these little It's
Speaker 3: been over a year since I've talked to him, but
Speaker 3: it's they had these under a microscope or everything had
Speaker 3: like these little channels and everything almost like your blood
Speaker 3: flow system, like your arteries and everything else in this little,
Speaker 3: tiny microscopic thing. And to me, it seems like it's
Speaker 3: highly intelligently made. Now what it is, I couldn't tell you.
Speaker 3: He listed what the materials were in everything. But I've
Speaker 3: actually reached out to him a little bit ago to
Speaker 3: see if there's been any updates, because I said it's
Speaker 3: been over a year. I'm curious to see if he's
Speaker 3: found anything else or if anyone else has ever sent
Speaker 3: him anything based off of the interview that we had,
Speaker 3: because that's the other thing, like I talked to him before,
Speaker 3: I've ever even heard of what the grid gridmark pattern
Speaker 3: was or a red Grimmark fanana phenomenon. And now if
Speaker 3: there's different entities that are implanting different types of materials
Speaker 3: into people, then there's other ones that are putting these
Speaker 3: patterns on people. Again, it goes back to that age
Speaker 3: old question of why are they doing it? I know
Speaker 3: you don't have an answer. I no one really does.
Speaker 3: But it's just weird that there's certain different aspects of
Speaker 3: people are experiencing.
Speaker 2: Yes, just listen to that podcast actually, and was going
Speaker 2: to reach out to him later today as well. Not
Speaker 2: because of like implant experience. I'm always interested in that.
Speaker 2: I've never experienced anything like that, never seen anything, but
Speaker 2: because of his connect the connecting of the implants elements,
Speaker 2: like the profile of elements or whatever with stuff that
Speaker 2: that's from a UAP. And I see that the geometric
Speaker 2: themes that I've discerned in the dots and the line
Speaker 2: body mark being literally exactly the same geometries of the
Speaker 2: phoenix lights indicates to me that there is a strong connection, right,
Speaker 2: It's not it's not like there are lights in the sky, uh,
Speaker 2: and these are alien vessels or something like that. There's
Speaker 2: some sort of intimate connection with our bodies and these craft.
Speaker 2: And that's sort of what it sounds like when they
Speaker 2: are intelligently designing like these craft that have the same
Speaker 2: material here. I mean, I've heard similar things around, like
Speaker 2: channels within advanced materials being indicatory of UAP materials, that
Speaker 2: sort of thing. So that what he found very much
Speaker 2: aligns with the other whisperings I hear about reverse engineer
Speaker 2: technology or like the reverse engineering insights that have emerged.
Speaker 2: So we can actually based on the connection between these
Speaker 2: experiences and dreams. I would say, we do have the
Speaker 2: capacity to understand why, at least in one dimension of meaning. So,
Speaker 2: like I said, there's many dimensions of meaning, subjective and objective,
Speaker 2: personal and trans personal. We can look to the history
Speaker 2: of mathematics and philosophy right and we can see there
Speaker 2: has been interactions with mathematicians, political people with entities that
Speaker 2: may be similar to the entities we're talking about through
Speaker 2: dreams or dream like experiences that are similar to the
Speaker 2: experiences we're talking about throughout history, and they generally bring
Speaker 2: creative insights regarding science, math, philosophy, technology. Socrates is the
Speaker 2: father of Western philosophy basically, and he had psychedelic experiences
Speaker 2: in which he talked to a non human intelligence, would
Speaker 2: tell them things the same thing what they cart, where
Speaker 2: we get a lot of our understanding of like the
Speaker 2: scientific method and also how we think about geometry.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: He actually was inspired by a series of three dreams,
Speaker 2: and there is there's this constant history of interaction between
Speaker 2: math and science and these ron human intelligences that we think, oh, whatever,
Speaker 2: the scientists are just going to sleep and having dreams
Speaker 2: and imagining that they're talking to entities like Tesla is
Speaker 2: a great example. Or actually we could take their take
Speaker 2: them at their word, and go, hey, they have these encounters,
Speaker 2: and these encounters seem to be moving forward science and culture,
Speaker 2: and that's one of the reasons. That's that's not a
Speaker 2: satisfying reason as to why they're interacting with us, but
Speaker 2: that's one of the deductions we can make, I believe
Speaker 2: looking at this phenomenon in general.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, we're getting close to that two hour mark,
Speaker 3: so I don't know if there's any other things you
Speaker 3: want to jump into before we try and wrap this
Speaker 3: one up. I know we talked a bit about a
Speaker 3: little bit of everything, but I know you do. You
Speaker 3: have your own website and everything, so if you want
Speaker 3: to talk a little bit about.
Speaker 2: It, yeah, I'll talk about how people can connect with me,
Speaker 2: and my research again is sort of I work with
Speaker 2: a variety of different people. It's experiencers, it's experiences of
Speaker 2: missing time, ety contact, strange dreams, psychic phenomena. We do
Speaker 2: dream work in hypnosis. The hypnosis I offer is in
Speaker 2: alignment with my theories that hypnosis is actually shamanic dream work.
Speaker 2: So I'll talk a lot about that, about how regression
Speaker 2: hypnosis is a means of knowledge, but it is not
Speaker 2: a means of objective knowledge nor a means of historic testimony.
Speaker 2: So this resolves a bit of the controversies around regression hypnosis,
Speaker 2: particularly that emerged in the nineties called the memory wars,
Speaker 2: a controversy or false memories. So we say, hey, it's
Speaker 2: a dream like experience. You can understand the alse of this.
Speaker 2: These experiences like dreams, and that's how I work with people.
Speaker 2: I offer all of my work by donation, so that's
Speaker 2: like after the fact for the sessions people don't nate
Speaker 2: for it. I have all of the material website that's
Speaker 2: d SETI dot org d s e t i dot
Speaker 2: org that stands for the Dream Search or Study of
Speaker 2: Extraterrestrial Intelligence. I've got a couple of books on Amazon
Speaker 2: you can get there to through the website, and most
Speaker 2: recently put out a lot of three case studies about
Speaker 2: redgridmark phenomena and several case studies about the Dawson line phenomena,
Speaker 2: the UAP studies. That's in my book Missing Time Found.
Speaker 2: Don't worry, It's just a dream again, available on my
Speaker 2: website or Amazon via the links on the website. So
Speaker 2: that's the best way to get in contact with me.
Speaker 2: If you're interested in geometric analysis of the body marks,
Speaker 2: I would really appreciate. I love working with that. That's
Speaker 2: one of the things that the other side had told
Speaker 2: me to do is offer this as a service someone
Speaker 2: has a mark. Is in part my responsibility to offer
Speaker 2: the service of geometric analysis. I say, hey, this is
Speaker 2: the geometry I see, this is I don't see. Geometry
Speaker 2: is not a definitive response. It's a step in an
Speaker 2: inquiry that the experiencer has, but it provides some understanding
Speaker 2: or some ways to sync the teeth in. So those
Speaker 2: are the best way. That's the best way to get
Speaker 2: in contact with me is through DSETI dot org.
Speaker 3: I'll make sure I include that the show notes for
Speaker 3: anyone out there listening that wants to get in contact
Speaker 3: with Daniel. But I do want to say this has
Speaker 3: been a very enlightening conversation. I hope everyone listening has
Speaker 3: enjoyed this, because I believe this is definitely a topic
Speaker 3: that needs to be more upfront and out there for
Speaker 3: people to research and look into. And as we've said
Speaker 3: up several times, mainstream media does not tend to look
Speaker 3: at it and needed to do the scientist for some reason.
Speaker 3: But hopefully with more episodes and more dealings with it
Speaker 3: and more people coming forward, it'll eventually help blow the
Speaker 3: lid off. But till then we'll just keep chugging along.
Speaker 2: I guess yep, that's how it works. Well, thank you
Speaker 2: for having me and it's been a pleasure to talk
Speaker 2: to you, and I appreciate this space you're holding for
Speaker 2: experiencers to share their stories. That was one of the
Speaker 2: things that really impressed me about your podcast is your
Speaker 2: quality of listening and your lack of judgment as so
Speaker 2: whether or not these things are real. I think that
Speaker 2: is actually the perspective we need to bring to this
Speaker 2: subject matters. These are meaningful, these are impactful, let's just listen.
Speaker 2: So thank you for bringing that presence to the.
Speaker 3: World and not a problem. I always said, I'm just
Speaker 3: here to give a platform for everyone else to share
Speaker 3: their experiences, so that's why I do it.
Speaker 2: Wonderful.
Speaker 3: Well again, Daniel, I definitely appreciate you coming on here
Speaker 3: today and talking with me. It's been my pleasure.
Speaker 2: Thank you. Mitcha.
Speaker 3: You have a good one. You Chip If you would
Speaker 3: like to be a guest on tenfoil Tels, remember to
Speaker 3: send an email the Tenfoil Tells Podcast to gmail dot com,
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