Speaker 1: Gordon Monson will stop by sometimes we're in studio, but
Speaker 1: Craig is traveling.
Speaker 2: The Jazz are on the road for a while.
Speaker 1: Now we're gonna bring in Chris Camaraddi, but the TV
Speaker 1: voice of the Utah Jazz Craig Bowler Jack on a Thursday.
Speaker 2: Bowler, Happy Thursday, sir, how are we doing?
Speaker 3: Hey, I'm doing good. I just got to Portland and
Speaker 3: no rain, so that that's a happy that's a happy
Speaker 3: Thursday for me.
Speaker 2: Oh that's good. That's good at this time.
Speaker 1: And you're in Portland, you're gonna experience the rain for sure,
Speaker 1: all right, Bowler. Look, man, uh, it's just it's tough watching,
Speaker 1: you know, watch and tough. Tough it is it is
Speaker 1: and we all know the deal. And I will say
Speaker 1: this Oklahoma City is scary good even without Chet.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's a good team. And what they do.
Speaker 1: They get a lot of attention for, you know, SGA
Speaker 1: and their offense, and deservedly so. They're a nasty ball,
Speaker 1: howking defensive team. So let's just start in a vacuum.
Speaker 1: Nineteen turnovers in the first half, which tied an NBA
Speaker 1: record twenty nine, leading a forty five point it's Jazz
Speaker 1: fall to OKC NBA Cup group play.
Speaker 2: What'd you see from your front row seat?
Speaker 3: Well, I saw a team Oklahoma City Spence let's start there.
Speaker 3: Who could be a title contender in my opinion, which
Speaker 3: when Chet gets back healthy. I've never seen a defense
Speaker 3: that swarms and just constantly works as one unit. I mean,
Speaker 3: swing it from one side to the other, run it
Speaker 3: down the paint, force a shot out. The Jazz again
Speaker 3: don't have the experience to handle that type of pressure
Speaker 3: on a nightly basis, and it's been an issue all
Speaker 3: season long. This one was out of sight in the
Speaker 3: sense of steel steel Steel eighteen In all, it's the
Speaker 3: most steals I believe, or ties the steals, most steals
Speaker 3: this season in the NBA.
Speaker 4: It was rough.
Speaker 3: You know, Will Hardy continues to try to find a
Speaker 3: positive or two out of things as this team continues
Speaker 3: to grow. But you know, it gets to the point
Speaker 3: spend where you just kind of sit back and just
Speaker 3: go wow, you know what will be the turning point?
Speaker 3: What will to take And maybe that's another player or
Speaker 3: two down the road, but right now, the experience you
Speaker 3: get from my chair is you I think the concern
Speaker 3: for Will would be not to get demoralized. That is,
Speaker 3: I think that's a correct phrase or one word to
Speaker 3: use in a game like that that it totally stunts
Speaker 3: your ability to grow and move forward. So, you know,
Speaker 3: we're in Portland, they've struggled. You know, it's a whole
Speaker 3: new life without Dame as they continue to make those adjustments.
Speaker 3: So I look on the schedule where to go like
Speaker 3: Sacramento as well. Do the Jazz want to win? I
Speaker 3: think one win on occasion obviously helps boost morale and
Speaker 3: get you back in the gym with a more positive attitude.
Speaker 3: But we all know what you know the situation is,
Speaker 3: and that is to let the young guys play at
Speaker 3: the bulk of the minutes and that's where we're going.
Speaker 3: And it's tough. It is tough to sit there and
Speaker 3: see some great moments and then just that six minute
Speaker 3: span or so that just absolutely derails what the Jazz
Speaker 3: are trying to do.
Speaker 1: So prior to the team taking off for the road
Speaker 1: trip and you guys will have a home game, it
Speaker 1: was announced prior to the announcement that Phoenix will be
Speaker 1: in town next Friday, you guys are going to be
Speaker 1: on the road until Saturday, December the twenty eighth, when
Speaker 1: Philly rolls into town and then you're going back on
Speaker 1: the road for New York, Miami, Orlando, So it is
Speaker 1: a lot of time away from home. And Will talked
Speaker 1: about the opportunity to come together as a group on
Speaker 1: these trips, and you're on the trips with the team,
Speaker 1: how did they seem? Man, getting your head kicked in
Speaker 1: like this, night in and night out has to take
Speaker 1: its toll.
Speaker 3: It does, And I think there's a huge learning curve
Speaker 3: that's happening right now and what it takes to play
Speaker 3: a shake Guilt's Alexander and even brought into a wall
Speaker 3: of Lougan's Dort an undrafted player bind you who's made
Speaker 3: a living in the league being a defensive just you know,
Speaker 3: wall and understanding what it takes to play at this
Speaker 3: high level n after night. I think they're getting a
Speaker 3: huge taste of that right now. And Spence Aday of
Speaker 3: the road, Yeah, I'm in the lobby and guys are
Speaker 3: walking through and heading up to the room and probably
Speaker 3: thinking about some late lunch around town. They'll practice with
Speaker 3: a shoot around in the morning and then play the
Speaker 3: Blazers tomorrow. But I still since they get it. Keante's driven.
Speaker 3: I take Colin Sexton is driven, as you know Walker
Speaker 3: Kesser has. You know, I think bodied up a little
Speaker 3: bit this year also mentally as well, physically and mentally,
Speaker 3: which was a must in his third season. But a
Speaker 3: long way to go, you know, a long way to go,
Speaker 3: and that's my biggest concern as we roll into game forty.
Speaker 3: In game fifty, the you know, have you stripped these
Speaker 3: guys of confidence that they definitely have to have moving
Speaker 3: forward in their pro career, And I think Will's trying
Speaker 3: to balance that with positivity. In his postgame comments, you know,
Speaker 3: I thought he did a great job of explaining himself.
Speaker 3: And I made the call that Colin had run it
Speaker 3: to the rack and scored against the Lakers, But yet
Speaker 3: I didn't hear it or even my eyes are going
Speaker 3: to the you know, going to the rim. Will was
Speaker 3: at about at half court and made the call, the
Speaker 3: timeout call. But you know, I think he at least
Speaker 3: goes to the microphone, and you know, he admits when
Speaker 3: he's right and also admits when he's wrong, and also
Speaker 3: in the sense of you know, talking to Colin. You know,
Speaker 3: that's one thing I've noticed about Will he talks to you,
Speaker 3: and I think he talks truths and that's what the
Speaker 3: players need to hear right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, just I want to continue on
Speaker 1: this theme, Greg, because you know, to start the year,
Speaker 1: Danny Justin anybody who took a mic, including Will said,
Speaker 1: it's development, it's young players. We need to see what
Speaker 1: sort of hand we've been dealt. I'm paraphrasing obviously, and
Speaker 1: of course that has been the deal. You know, they
Speaker 1: are playing the young players, and they are playing these
Speaker 1: young players through difficult moments when they're making clear errors
Speaker 1: and mistakes where if you're playing for something maybe a
Speaker 1: little bit more serious this year, you take them out
Speaker 1: of the game to maybe play a vet give you
Speaker 1: a better chance to win.
Speaker 2: But there has to be, Craig, a very fine line.
Speaker 1: Between wanting them to learn what it's like to play
Speaker 1: with the varsity, as Gordy Chaser would say, but not
Speaker 1: allowing this consistent losing to seep into their psyche and
Speaker 1: the risk of them learning. You know, habits, they lead
Speaker 1: to losing and winning. They're both habits. They're both things
Speaker 1: that are created with day to day you know, good habits, right,
Speaker 1: And ultimately I'm not saying that bad habits, but tell
Speaker 1: me from your vantage point, your thoughts on the fine
Speaker 1: line between learning lessons and allowing losing to seep into
Speaker 1: your culture.
Speaker 3: Man Spence Bingo, it's a razor thin. It's probably the
Speaker 3: biggest conversation had behind closed doors with Utah Jazz management.
Speaker 3: I think the balance is all on Will to make
Speaker 3: sure that they stay positive. It's hard. There's there are
Speaker 3: moments he tries to I think highlight to say this
Speaker 3: really went well, and he's always told me, look, well,
Speaker 3: what the problem is. Great teams can handle two minutes
Speaker 3: where they may see a seven to eight oero run happen,
Speaker 3: but then they're able to put things back on track.
Speaker 3: The Jazz are in the six minute category or even beyond,
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, what was a five or
Speaker 3: six point lead allows is allowed to be taken away
Speaker 3: and then down fifteen. So the runs are fifteen, two,
Speaker 3: seventeen four, sometimes twenty to four, twenty to six, And
Speaker 3: I look into players eyes as they run across by
Speaker 3: the table, and you know, I think they are in
Speaker 3: kind of this shock mode of like, damn, things were
Speaker 3: going well, what happened? And that's where Will has to
Speaker 3: step in and explain that good teams start to up
Speaker 3: their defense, they'll doub you. They'll they'll trick you into
Speaker 3: thinking you're good, or they'll go to your weak hand
Speaker 3: and make you turn the ball over. And so if
Speaker 3: that's the process of learning, so be it right. But
Speaker 3: I'm with you on the psychological part of it, and
Speaker 3: that may be the biggest challenge for Will this year
Speaker 3: is to still be able to say, hey, here are
Speaker 3: some positives that we're moving forward. But also when you
Speaker 3: take a win, enjoy it and understand why you want
Speaker 3: and you know, there's have been a lot of wins
Speaker 3: and you know they're in line. I try to just keep,
Speaker 3: you know, pumping the wheels a little bit and try
Speaker 3: to look at things. But in reality, what you see
Speaker 3: is what I see, and their struggles. They don't handle
Speaker 3: ball pressure and that's something and they don't, you know,
Speaker 3: really understand the need to play both into the floor
Speaker 3: and be a defensive minded player as well. The box
Speaker 3: score means nothing right now. And I think that's probably
Speaker 3: one of the biggest conversations he has with these young guys.
Speaker 2: Craig.
Speaker 1: They have really bad defensive habits. They just do and
Speaker 1: you know I can't spend it any other way because
Speaker 1: we have smart basketball fans here and I'm watching against
Speaker 1: o case, and yes, turnovers lead to runouts, but you
Speaker 1: have to try to get back, and then you have
Speaker 1: to track your man like there are so many what
Speaker 1: I call pick six is just a steal and a
Speaker 1: bucket or a dunk on the other end, and then
Speaker 1: there are a ton of missed rotations where players are
Speaker 1: getting wide open looks and that look I know that
Speaker 1: everybody loves well, and he's had his option picked up
Speaker 1: for both year four and year five.
Speaker 2: I know they're riding with them, but.
Speaker 1: There has to be some sort of conversation about improving
Speaker 1: defensive habits, whether that's personnel or coaching or a little
Speaker 1: bit of both. We're thirtieth last year in defensive efficiency
Speaker 1: and they're thirtieth again this year. There's no defensive metric
Speaker 1: where they excel. There actually are a few offensive metrics
Speaker 1: where they're acceptable, none elites, but there's nothing on defense
Speaker 1: that they do well.
Speaker 2: Why do you think that is? I guess is a
Speaker 2: long way of me asking.
Speaker 3: You that, well, you know, I think you have to
Speaker 3: just look down and see, you know, our Danny and
Speaker 3: Justin Zanik and Will have said, this is a difficult
Speaker 3: league to make and to stick. And you know what,
Speaker 3: the data points are being collected fence as we speak,
Speaker 3: and they'll have to make some tough decisions on right guy, yes,
Speaker 3: wrong guy no, and move forward. I mean that's just
Speaker 3: kind of the way this whole thing happens. Are all
Speaker 3: the right pieces here, No, are more pieces coming in, absolutely,
Speaker 3: but at what speed? And fans want that to be
Speaker 3: accelerated at a very quick pace. And you know what
Speaker 3: Will does too. Look, his career is going to be
Speaker 3: I had to say, you know, judged on success, but
Speaker 3: you know everyone wants to win now. And for him
Speaker 3: to have an the options picked up through his fifth
Speaker 3: year is a wonderful thing for him. But I guarantee
Speaker 3: you he doesn't just like sitting here getting you know,
Speaker 3: beaten every night. He's a talented guy with some good ideas,
Speaker 3: some great ideas learned well with pop a vision San Antonio.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, are the pieces right? And
Speaker 3: that's where Danny and Justin have to do that evaluation
Speaker 3: with Will's help to say, yes, he works in the system,
Speaker 3: No he doesn't. He can't play both ends of the
Speaker 3: floor and those are going on as we speak, and
Speaker 3: that's about as clear as I know. It's frustrating, it's disappointing.
Speaker 3: Fans have been really incredible at the arena so far
Speaker 3: this season, and you know, I plauged them as they
Speaker 3: watched some of these young guys make mistakes and grow.
Speaker 3: And you know, Kyante's got most of the pressure on him. Spence,
Speaker 3: I think he would agree. It's a tough position to
Speaker 3: really selling in this league because you have so much responsibility.
Speaker 3: How much time do you let a player grow into
Speaker 3: that Walker is making himself known more and he looks healthier,
Speaker 3: and he looks more mentally fit. As the rem protector
Speaker 3: in marketing is always a target now because there's really
Speaker 3: not a second option, and so market is getting double
Speaker 3: team friple team to time and his shot production and
Speaker 3: just point productions down. So you know, it's it's a
Speaker 3: tough time. And I still like what you just said
Speaker 3: to me was the fine line of the mental side
Speaker 3: of making sure are you setting the right trends of
Speaker 3: winning and developing and how do you balance that? And
Speaker 3: I think we're going to find out more, obviously in
Speaker 3: the next twenty games, on what direction they want to go.
Speaker 1: So I mentioned some of the offensive metrics that at
Speaker 1: least are somewhat positive. They're playing quickly, they're tenth in pace,
Speaker 1: and they're number two in offensive rebound percentage. You know,
Speaker 1: that's not a great great stat because it does mean
Speaker 1: you're missing a lot of shots, but it also means
Speaker 1: you're getting some offensive boards. They're the worst team in
Speaker 1: the league in turnover percentage. They're the worst team in
Speaker 1: the league and giving up points off those turnovers. But
Speaker 1: the rebound percentage has to directly tie to Walker in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, and I do want to give
Speaker 1: him a lot of credit because if there's an a
Speaker 1: plus early season story, it is Walker. Okay, he's played
Speaker 1: himself into the conversation, and I'll say back into the conversation.
Speaker 1: I was never out on him, but it was so
Speaker 1: fun to watch him evolve as a rookie and so
Speaker 1: disappointing to watch him flatten out as a sophomore. That now,
Speaker 1: in year three, to see him recapture what we were
Speaker 1: all excited about and even build on it, I think
Speaker 1: is such a positive. Nearly three blocks a game, eleven boards,
Speaker 1: eleven points. I'd like to see the free throw percentage
Speaker 1: up a little bit, and he's only shooting a couple
Speaker 1: of free throws a game. I wouldn't mind to see
Speaker 1: that up a little bit myself, but I don't want
Speaker 1: to be completely overtly negative when there's a real clear
Speaker 1: positive from your seat.
Speaker 2: What have you seen with this evolution so far? From
Speaker 2: Walker Kessler?
Speaker 3: Your numbers are more spot on Spence last year. The
Speaker 3: early injury really just negated anything he accomplished his rookie season.
Speaker 3: I think he lost a lot of confidence. He was
Speaker 3: a bench looker, as you know, Will talked a lot
Speaker 3: about don't look at me, go play. You don't need
Speaker 3: my You know, I don't need to tell you yes
Speaker 3: or no. You did well. And you know that's another
Speaker 3: thing about being young. You don't want to make a mistake.
Speaker 3: And I think the Jazz make the mistakes in those
Speaker 3: those panic moments that occur, which only makes the situation
Speaker 3: worse and you forget to get back on defense, or
Speaker 3: you look at the bench and say, oh, it's my fault. Well,
Speaker 3: by that time your man has left you and is
Speaker 3: twenty feet down the court and ready to run to
Speaker 3: the rack, and you've left your man, you know, on
Speaker 3: an Island back there defensively, so that's part of the problem.
Speaker 3: But for Walker, I think John Collins is another positive
Speaker 3: this year in my opinion, just because he's another tenacious
Speaker 3: rebounder and has helped the Jazz the offense and defensive
Speaker 3: side quite a bit. But getting back to Walker, I'm
Speaker 3: proud of him. This was a could be a make
Speaker 3: or break year for him. I know it's only in
Speaker 3: his third season. A lot of teams need bigs, but
Speaker 3: I'm just girl glad that he finally found some toughness.
Speaker 3: I think he's a tougher guy in the paint. He's
Speaker 3: learned to keep the ball above his head. He can finish.
Speaker 3: I select to like you said, at one point he
Speaker 3: hit four out of five free throws and everybody you
Speaker 3: know was like, you know, cheering, like hey man, maybe
Speaker 3: he's getting into a groove. But I don't know why.
Speaker 3: A lot of bigs have problems in the line, Spence,
Speaker 3: but it's it's true, and a lot of us just
Speaker 3: practice and the mental side of belief go up and
Speaker 3: you know, don't think about it, go aheap and take
Speaker 3: the shot. But little by little, Walker Kesser has matured
Speaker 3: and I think physically, he feels much better about himself.
Speaker 1: You know, you reference John and for listeners that don't know,
Speaker 1: this is very incredible. And look, it's only you know,
Speaker 1: sixteen seventeen eighteen games played as of now. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, we'll see how long this lasts and hopefully
Speaker 1: he can stay healthy. John's played in twenty games. He's
Speaker 1: only missed one game so far. He's a fifty forty
Speaker 1: ninety guy.
Speaker 3: This year.
Speaker 2: He's shooting fifty three.
Speaker 1: Percent from the floor, forty percent from three, and then
Speaker 1: ninety one point two percent from the line, and he's
Speaker 1: taking three threes a game. This is not forty percent
Speaker 1: on like one or two attempts. And I am a
Speaker 1: well known, not huge John Collins guy. I guess is
Speaker 1: how I'll put that. And I didn't think it looked
Speaker 1: great last year. And look, if they're playing him to
Speaker 1: showcase him, all good because he's got a player option
Speaker 1: for twenty seven mil next year, so he's fine wherever
Speaker 1: he is. Do you think this is a scenario where
Speaker 1: they're kind of allowing John to get some usage and
Speaker 1: get some minutes to maybe move on from him, or
Speaker 1: do you think because he's what is he twenty six.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like he's thirty four or do
Speaker 1: you think, no.
Speaker 3: He's you know, he and Colin Sexton both are still
Speaker 3: in that in that area of where they could be
Speaker 3: used in this jazz lineup. And you know, is it money,
Speaker 3: is it youth? Is it a combination? Does he not fit?
Speaker 3: But I'll tell you what, John's been a pro. I've
Speaker 3: talked to him several times at Big T and you
Speaker 3: know what he's all in. I mean, I don't if
Speaker 3: he's blowing smoke. He does a great job at it.
Speaker 3: But I'm looking at his performance on the floor, Spence,
Speaker 3: and you're seeing what I'm seeing. The guy's busting his tail.
Speaker 3: He's much more comfortable with Will as his coach and
Speaker 3: understands the system better and understands what he has to do.
Speaker 3: He's had to play a couple three different positions at times,
Speaker 3: you know, five, four and three. That's the way it's happened.
Speaker 3: Philipowski's injury not you know, put him back into more
Speaker 3: of a centerpiece. They've used Michael Potter, They've used v
Speaker 3: a little bit, you know, like like Will told us,
Speaker 3: we're one injury or two injuries away from playing a
Speaker 3: lot of veterans to fill those minutes, and Jac's out now,
Speaker 3: so that gives Sins of Bos some time. So this
Speaker 3: is a constant, revolving door. But I think John's been
Speaker 3: the most consistent of any Jazz player. I said it
Speaker 3: on the air the other night with in the pregame show.
Speaker 3: I just think if you look at the numbers and
Speaker 3: the production, and the way he's hand handle himself and
Speaker 3: the way he's mentored these younger guys, I'd put him
Speaker 3: as the early twenty five game nearly twenty five game
Speaker 3: MVP for the Jazz And that's probably something and no
Speaker 3: disrespect to John, that Danny or Justin would want to happen.
Speaker 3: But I think the mentoring is but the way he's played,
Speaker 3: he has busted his till and if they do put
Speaker 3: him on the market, it only highlights him to receive
Speaker 3: something even higher than just a John Collins or a
Speaker 3: player or maybe a higher draft pick, which is what
Speaker 3: Danny and Justin seemed to continue to want to stockpile John. Yeah,
Speaker 3: probably doing himself a favorite expense, but he's also doing
Speaker 3: the Jazz a favorite as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, John Collins fifty forty ninety is not a sentence
Speaker 1: I thought I'd be saying this this year, So a
Speaker 1: lot of credit to him for sure. All right, last thing,
Speaker 1: I'll set you loose on this, and unfortunately, I do
Speaker 1: want to ask you about Keante and I just am
Speaker 1: starting to wonder whether or not he is miscast, whether
Speaker 1: or not it's a square peg, round hole sit you.
Speaker 1: He just turns it over way too much. The shot
Speaker 1: selection stuff I'm not a huge fan of. I'm not
Speaker 1: willing to dismiss or annoint a twenty twenty one year
Speaker 1: old player, but he is the He's the young guy
Speaker 1: that is getting the most opportunities with the combination of
Speaker 1: his rookie year minutes and now soft year minutes as well,
Speaker 1: and we just haven't seen improvement, Craig, I mean, that's
Speaker 1: just how it is. I wonder how you're kind of
Speaker 1: digesting the first part of the season for Keyante George.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would think inconsistency is the first word that
Speaker 3: comes to mind. I think knowing him and talking to
Speaker 3: Will a lot about him is that he coaches him
Speaker 3: very hard, okay, And what that tells me is that
Speaker 3: when you have to coach somebody that hard, is that
Speaker 3: there may be you know, do you get what I'm
Speaker 3: trying to tell you to do now. To his to
Speaker 3: his credit, you know, you know, he's a two who's
Speaker 3: trying to be a one in this in this very
Speaker 3: difficult league, and there's only a few elite point guards,
Speaker 3: and those are the ones that leave teams to multiple titles,
Speaker 3: or multiple playoff runs, or win conference titles, and it's
Speaker 3: difficult to do. I think the Jazz see something in him, obviously,
Speaker 3: and they're not willing to throw the towel in. But
Speaker 3: you are correct, and the numbers prove that there is
Speaker 3: a panic. There is still the uncertainty of I'm doing
Speaker 3: the right thing. When does that settle down? If ever?
Speaker 3: I don't know, but I think what they're going to do,
Speaker 3: going back to when you heard the same thing I
Speaker 3: did with Danny and Justin as all these data points
Speaker 3: and the way that the metrics are all set up
Speaker 3: now in the league, they're going to find those numbers
Speaker 3: and decide one way or the other if they're going
Speaker 3: the right way or the wrong way. The turnovers are
Speaker 3: a big issue, and it starts those ten two runs
Speaker 3: that the opponents take. And he still has to be
Speaker 3: able to handle backcourt pressure. You've noticed in the early
Speaker 3: part of the season, a lot of teams decided on
Speaker 3: the inbound after I made bucket, they come back and
Speaker 3: put two guys on him and try to get him
Speaker 3: on an a count or let him, you know, or
Speaker 3: have a turnover. You know that he's been able to
Speaker 3: handle that a little bit better. But look, they know
Speaker 3: the weaknesses of the Jazz and teams are trying to
Speaker 3: exploit that, and they're they're roughing up lowry marketing because
Speaker 3: there's not another guy that really at the moment can
Speaker 3: be a consistent score and they've had good looks, right Spence,
Speaker 3: But the bottom line is can you make those shots?
Speaker 3: I mean, this whole conversation is about Keyante market and
Speaker 3: you know, the growth of Kiante, the growth of Walker.
Speaker 3: What do you do with jac and John and what
Speaker 3: do you what do you do with sins of baw
Speaker 3: and is Isaiah call you're getting enough for reps?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 3: So it's it's it's intriguing just to be a part
Speaker 3: of it and watch the pieces being moved around and
Speaker 3: the injury to Taylor Hendrix we haven't talked about real
Speaker 3: quick and now you got to go yes, but that
Speaker 3: may that may have set the whole game plan back
Speaker 3: because Taylor spoke yesterday and I'm glad to see in
Speaker 3: recovery is in his second year, but cut way short
Speaker 3: and that really threw probably John Collins into the mix
Speaker 3: even more so. And you got to see Philipowski before
Speaker 3: he had his ankle and leg injury. And maybe you know,
Speaker 3: the second round pick at thirty two, You know what,
Speaker 3: that may be the best pick of all just in
Speaker 3: the sense of the potential that he you know, has,
Speaker 3: and the and the NBA body that he has, and
Speaker 3: it seems to be the IQ of the Duke basketball
Speaker 3: program allows you to understand the NBA game better. But
Speaker 3: injuries always always impacts the team spence, and that injury
Speaker 3: by uh from by Taylor Hendrix may have really turned
Speaker 3: the Jazz a little bit sideways. I don't the expectations
Speaker 3: for his growth this year was big. He worked hard
Speaker 3: in the off season. He looked, you know, stronger, physical,
Speaker 3: more mentally prepared to play in the riggers of the NBA.
Speaker 3: But man, I hate to see him sideline and will
Speaker 3: and you know you may not see him back until
Speaker 3: the of next year. You know, twenty twenty five is
Speaker 3: coming up, and you may not see him until January
Speaker 3: at twenty six, so we'll have to wait and see.
Speaker 3: But I think that's a big, a big storyline that
Speaker 3: will be followed. Is this, you know, continued growth process
Speaker 3: of the Jazz continue.
Speaker 2: No doubt.
Speaker 1: All right, Butler, thanks for the time, travel safe, have
Speaker 1: a great call, and hopefully we get you back in
Speaker 1: the studio soon.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, next week, I think we'll do it.
Speaker 1: Love it, love it, Thank you, Sir, Craig Bowlerjack TV
Speaker 1: Voice off the Utah Jazz. The Jazz are in action
Speaker 1: against the Blazers. Jazz have seven of eight on the road,
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Speaker 1: Gordon Monson is gonna be live in studio, do a
Speaker 1: lot of college football at Pordo. Chris Cambronni stops by,
Speaker 1: latest on Utah's offensive coordinator search, do a little sports
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Speaker 1: I bet you can see this coming on the Spotify
Speaker 1: on a wrap. For me this year, it's like we've
Speaker 1: switched roles. It's like bizarro world, little uh Zach Bryan.
Speaker 1: Zach Bryan was one of my top five this year.
Speaker 6: That's fair. That's fair changing. And I like the country angle.
Speaker 6: I'm not a big Zach Brian guys particularly, but I
Speaker 6: like that you're expanding your horizon.
Speaker 2: Is that because you're a big Dave Portner guy. No,
Speaker 2: aren't they beefing.
Speaker 6: They are beefing, but it's I mean, it's there. I
Speaker 6: guess it's ancillary. Zach Brian's not how do I put this?
Speaker 6: He's a country singer who isn't a country guy, and
Speaker 6: he also also also is not reportedly a very great guy. Listen,
Speaker 6: I know people who know folks in the country industry,
Speaker 6: so some things will leave off air.
Speaker 2: You're being a country music gaykeeper a little bit.
Speaker 6: That's fine, but not really I think if you're into
Speaker 6: the music, all on board, come along. But also, you
Speaker 6: know there's some off the stage stuff too.
Speaker 2: All right, all right, off stage stuff with Zach Bryan.
Speaker 1: I'm unfamiliar with Gordon monson Thursday afternoon, Gordo, Are you
Speaker 1: a Spotify guy?
Speaker 2: Do you use Spotify?
Speaker 4: No? Not really, I don't, but everybody else my family does.
Speaker 4: But I am something of a country music expert. So
Speaker 4: if you have questions about that, I'm new to it.
Speaker 4: But boy, I'm telling you I'm having to cram down
Speaker 4: my throat quickly.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's uh. Lisa and the girls all love country music.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, they do. And I'm married a rock and roller,
Speaker 4: but I don't know what happened to her, but she's
Speaker 4: gone country on man. I guess I just you know,
Speaker 4: one of the nice little battles I gotta I gotta overcome.
Speaker 1: I think you can overcome that one based off the
Speaker 1: quality of your your your wife's life. Okay, I think
Speaker 1: I think that's something that you can deal with.
Speaker 2: Just fine. Is that fair?
Speaker 4: Yeah? And the quality of the poor quality of my
Speaker 4: choices and music, as you know, for many years of
Speaker 4: deal with what I like. But one thing we do
Speaker 4: have in common is our affection for rap music. As
Speaker 4: you know I as a former rapper myself, I uh,
Speaker 4: I uh, not very good at it. I'll say it
Speaker 4: that way.
Speaker 1: If only we had that sound of MC godfather back
Speaker 1: in the day doing a little Biggie, one of the
Speaker 1: best radio memories I have. Man, if only we had
Speaker 1: that sound somewhere. But all right, Gordo, let's let's start
Speaker 1: with Okay, So from I'll just unpack my take on
Speaker 1: this and then give you the space. I feel like
Speaker 1: if Kyle was going to retire, we would know. I
Speaker 1: feel like if he was done, there would be an announcement.
Speaker 1: And because there has not been an announcement, like, look,
Speaker 1: he's a coach under contract. You don't need a press
Speaker 1: conference to say I'm coming back. We know that he's
Speaker 1: under contract. My take on it is because there's been
Speaker 1: space between the end of the season and today with silence,
Speaker 1: he's coming back.
Speaker 2: What do you think?
Speaker 4: So that's pretty good logic there. I think. I just
Speaker 4: don't know yet. I don't know because in my conversations
Speaker 4: with people around Kyle who I trust that the way
Speaker 4: the season ended had nothing to do with it whether
Speaker 4: he was going to stay or go, because as you
Speaker 4: and I have talked about this before, he's based it
Speaker 4: more on what he feels inside, what he thinks is
Speaker 4: most important. But what's interesting is that you heard that
Speaker 4: press conference about a week or so ago when he
Speaker 4: said he would base it on what was best for
Speaker 4: the program, not what was best for him, which I
Speaker 4: thought was sort of a weird claim considering what he's
Speaker 4: already contributed to the program through the years. But if
Speaker 4: it is what's best for the program, then go ahead
Speaker 4: and make it clear to everyone what they're going to do,
Speaker 4: because there are big decisions that the program is facing
Speaker 4: right now. It's kind of a critical point in time,
Speaker 4: and so wouldn't it be in the best interest of
Speaker 4: the program for him to come right out and say
Speaker 4: what his intention is so that it's clear to everybody.
Speaker 4: And maybe he's doing that privately, I don't know, but
Speaker 4: publicly people are asking these questions and they don't know.
Speaker 4: And when you're trying to hire an offensive coordinator and
Speaker 4: you're trying to get your program back in a good
Speaker 4: place after what was a disappointing year, make it clear, man,
Speaker 4: That's what I would say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And to your point, I have to surmise that
Speaker 1: those in the know that are in the need to
Speaker 1: know room are probably people that have already been informed
Speaker 1: of his intention.
Speaker 2: That's just a guess of mine.
Speaker 1: I do agree with you, though, you know, make it
Speaker 1: publicly known, and even if it's the most Kyle thing
Speaker 1: of all time where it's just like, oh yeah, coming back,
Speaker 1: just say it. I don't view the man as a wishy,
Speaker 1: washy emotional decision maker. He's always struck me as a
Speaker 1: very pragmatic thinker. And my guess is, you know, if
Speaker 1: he was going to go, he would have just told
Speaker 1: people and then moved on to the next phase of
Speaker 1: his life. But as we sit here with no offensive
Speaker 1: coordinator hire just yet, do you feel like maybe the
Speaker 1: ambiguity surrounding Kyle is one of the reasons why they
Speaker 1: haven't been able to hone in on who they want
Speaker 1: to hire.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I think that's a reasonable suspicion, Spence, And
Speaker 4: I mean, they're losing out on guys they want, and
Speaker 4: I think that that would contribute to it. And that
Speaker 4: goes back to what I said before. It would be
Speaker 4: in the best interest in the program for him to
Speaker 4: make it clear because of it is unclear then that's
Speaker 4: not helping in this process. You know. On the one hand,
Speaker 4: you have Kyle Whittingham, a grizzled veteran coach who hasn't
Speaker 4: always been the easiest coach for offensive coordinators to operate under.
Speaker 4: There have been good years offensively for the Utes, there
Speaker 4: have been bad years offensively for the Utes, and there
Speaker 4: have been sort of a vague years where it was
Speaker 4: somewhere in between. But Kyle, you know, I mean, remember
Speaker 4: all that he had the revolving door what was it,
Speaker 4: ten coordinators in ten years or something. I'm not sure
Speaker 4: that he has the best reputation among promising young candidates
Speaker 4: because of what's happened in the past. On the other hand,
Speaker 4: you have a coach in waiting, Morgan Scally, a respected
Speaker 4: defensive coach, but who has never been a high level
Speaker 4: college coach, and so an offensive coordinator wouldn't know exactly
Speaker 4: how that's going to play out. How is he supposed
Speaker 4: to know it? He's never seen it. Now Morgan might
Speaker 4: be saying to him, Okay, look, this is what my
Speaker 4: philosophy's going to be, the kind of offense I want.
Speaker 4: But until you're actually on the field in the action,
Speaker 4: the heat of the moment, the pressure is on who
Speaker 4: knows what he might favor, and so it's kind of here,
Speaker 4: the utes are in the middle of this and if
Speaker 4: they if a decision hasn't been made, then how is
Speaker 4: a candidate for offensive coordinator supposed to navigate those waters?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a fair point.
Speaker 1: And as of now, according to reports, Utah has tried
Speaker 1: to hire Ben Rbuckle, who signed a contract with Oklahoma
Speaker 1: and Mac Leftwich. Mac Leftwich, according to several reports, was
Speaker 1: in saw Lake yesterday but elected to stay in Texas
Speaker 1: decide a contract with Texas Tech. Now we're hearing rumors
Speaker 1: maybe Jason Beck potentially is on the list the offensive
Speaker 1: coordinator for UNLV. Of course, they're playing tomorrow night, so
Speaker 1: Brennan Marion is their offensive cor to their quarterbacks. Coach,
Speaker 1: I wonder, Gordon, when we actually hear the announcement, what
Speaker 1: will you be looking for to indicate whether or not
Speaker 1: this is a Kyle Whittingham hire or maybe an out
Speaker 1: of the box, you know, maybe Morgan Scalley's looking to uh,
Speaker 1: you know, approach his tenure offensively a little bit different
Speaker 1: than coach Witt has.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's a good that's a good point sense.
Speaker 4: I think that on the one hand, Kyle has always
Speaker 4: he's never wanted his defense to be put in bad
Speaker 4: positions that he even this season, has talked about that,
Speaker 4: and and that's been an emphasis of his Now Morgan
Speaker 4: Scaley is a disciple of Kyle Whittingham, But does the
Speaker 4: does the eight corn fall far from the tree? If
Speaker 4: I'm Morgan Scalley, I want an innovative offensive coordinator who's
Speaker 4: going to take pressure off my defense by staying on
Speaker 4: the field, by controlling the ball, and by putting points
Speaker 4: on a board. Because without that, and you got pressure
Speaker 4: on your defense either way. And so why not go
Speaker 4: ahead and get I'm not talking about necessarily some you know,
Speaker 4: some pass happy nut who's just going to chuck the
Speaker 4: ball all over the field, but at least get some
Speaker 4: sort of new fangled approach which will move the football
Speaker 4: and score points. And that hasn't necessarily been the case
Speaker 4: or the priority as far as all things considered under
Speaker 4: Kyle Whittingham. So if they do hire sort of this
Speaker 4: new guy who's going to do something dramatic, maybe that
Speaker 4: would be a hint that it will be Mortgage Scaley.
Speaker 4: But we're all kind of guessing at this point.
Speaker 1: All right, So I am of the opinion that based
Speaker 1: off of preseason expectations, you combine preseason expectations with the
Speaker 1: results of the season, this is the worst Utah football
Speaker 1: season under coach Wait, and I actually think he would admit.
Speaker 2: That and say it out loud.
Speaker 1: How confident are you that this season was a blip
Speaker 1: on the radar moment in time as opposed to who
Speaker 1: Utah football is now?
Speaker 4: I think, well, there are arguments to be made both ways.
Speaker 4: As far as look, the track record is clear that
Speaker 4: Kyle Wallingham, if he's going to stay, he's a great coach,
Speaker 4: and he wins his program, wins. Utah football deserves its
Speaker 4: newfound reputational relatively over the past decade or so as being,
Speaker 4: you know, a prominent program that does things the right way,
Speaker 4: or a lot of things anyway, They're not perfect. I
Speaker 4: think he would admit that. But that does a lot
Speaker 4: of things right. But I'm telling you, they have to
Speaker 4: have a quarterback. They have to have a quarterback. You
Speaker 4: can't get buy any more spence in the college game
Speaker 4: without that particular position being stellar by being stellar, and
Speaker 4: Kyle has talked about that. He said that himself and
Speaker 4: so you know, I think Morgan Skelly would agree with that.
Speaker 4: And so will they get that guy? Can they get
Speaker 4: that guy with the reputation the program has. I don't know.
Speaker 4: I don't know, but they better know and they better
Speaker 4: get that solved. If they do get that salved, then
Speaker 4: I would be bullish on the Utes or a whole
Speaker 4: lot of other programs. The culture is there. What's the
Speaker 4: nil situation? Will they be able to pay the guys
Speaker 4: they need to really make it work? This last year,
Speaker 4: as you said, was so shocking that it does make
Speaker 4: you wonder can this thing be turned again? Will it
Speaker 4: be Utah football as we have known it? Or is
Speaker 4: this the beginning of a demise. I don't know how
Speaker 4: we would know that completely at this point. We have
Speaker 4: to wait.
Speaker 1: See, these things are fleeting. I mean, dynasties don't last.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it was a dynasty. You have to
Speaker 1: win multiple championships to create a dynasty. But it has
Speaker 1: been kind of a golden era of Utah foot and
Speaker 1: all that can be had can be lost. There's your
Speaker 1: lesson for the day, kid, So things can change. One
Speaker 1: more thing here, Gordon, and look, this is clearly not
Speaker 1: going to happen.
Speaker 4: Can I interrupt with one thing? What you just said there, Spencer,
Speaker 4: minds me. Remember how Jerry Sloan used to He used
Speaker 4: to legitimately be afraid he would never win another game, right,
Speaker 4: He thought it was so slippery that he didn't know
Speaker 4: whether he would ever win another game. And if a
Speaker 4: guy like Jerry Sloan, who thought the way he did,
Speaker 4: who coached the way he did, was afraid of losing
Speaker 4: to that degree, it tells you exactly what you just
Speaker 4: said is absolutely correct, that it is fleeting. It is tricky.
Speaker 4: Nothing can be assumed for sure.
Speaker 1: And I want to move over here because I feel
Speaker 1: like I might either just be taking crazy pills or
Speaker 1: there's just no possibility that this would happen. But according
Speaker 1: to the data that we have, Brian Johnson makes about
Speaker 1: six hundred and seventy thousand dollars, which is a very
Speaker 1: nice living. We'd all love to make that amount of money.
Speaker 1: It's like Gordon mottson money back at the old station.
Speaker 1: But ultimately Brian has a really good thing going because
Speaker 1: Jayden Daniels is awesome. Brian's the assistant head coach and
Speaker 1: the passing game coordinator for the Washington Commanders, but coach
Speaker 1: lot I believe was close to two million bucks. So
Speaker 1: no matter how comfortable your situation is, you wouldn't mind
Speaker 1: quadruper quadrupling your salary. And by Brian's owned admission and
Speaker 1: Kyle's own admission, back in twenty twelve when he was
Speaker 1: the OC here, he just wasn't ready for it. But
Speaker 1: my goodness, talk about experience since then, both at the
Speaker 1: college and pro level. It just seems like that's an
Speaker 1: avenue that is at least worth exploring. But a lot
Speaker 1: of guys, once they taste that charter, you know, the
Speaker 1: charter food on the NFL side of things, they don't
Speaker 1: want to give up their pro football, cushy life. But
Speaker 1: give me your thoughts on the potential of Brian Johnson
Speaker 1: offensive coordinator for Utah football.
Speaker 4: I was a proponent of Brian Johnson being an offensive
Speaker 4: coordinator back when they hired him the first time, and
Speaker 4: that turned out to be probably a mistake. He wasn't
Speaker 4: quite ready yet. But Spence, you will remember him, remember
Speaker 4: we used to talk with it. He's an impressive person.
Speaker 4: He carries himself well, he knows his football. You saw
Speaker 4: what he did with the utes when he was the
Speaker 4: guy in control out on the field, and so what
Speaker 4: I think that's a good idea. Yes, I would think
Speaker 4: that's a very good idea, especially with a reputation on
Speaker 4: the whole that he's built in the NFL. He has
Speaker 4: coached some terrific quarterbacks and run some pretty good offenses.
Speaker 1: All right, quick, BYU thought, you know, it's funny. You
Speaker 1: can actually make the argument that both Utah and BYU
Speaker 1: blew it right. So Utah preseason favorite Big twelve obviously
Speaker 1: that didn't go well, didn't work out. BYU puts themselves
Speaker 1: right in the mix as the favorite. After a nine
Speaker 1: to zero start, they stumble losing two of three down
Speaker 1: the and it looks like it's the Alamo Bowl again.
Speaker 1: And I'm cheering for an Alamo Bowl BYU Colorado. I
Speaker 1: think that would be a really fun game to watch.
Speaker 1: You have two really strong brands. Deon brings a lot
Speaker 1: of eyes. So it's a decent payout for the BYU
Speaker 1: athletic department and a lot of eyes on your program.
Speaker 1: But what are your thoughts on the way the season ended?
Speaker 1: And BYU, with everything in front of them, could not
Speaker 1: get the help they needed. And now instead of the
Speaker 1: CFP and the Big Twelve Championship. It looks like it's
Speaker 1: the alimobole.
Speaker 4: I don't know how it's how anyone can characterize it,
Speaker 4: characterize it any different than disappointment to see the way
Speaker 4: BYU lost those games where they did not bring their
Speaker 4: a game. They did not they didn't look prepared at
Speaker 4: various times in the game to be able to handle
Speaker 4: that after the way they had put the ball up
Speaker 4: on the tee with nine straight wins, and then to
Speaker 4: stumble the way they did. I don't know how, and
Speaker 4: I don't think this is being overly cripped. I think
Speaker 4: it's looking at it for what it is. You judge
Speaker 4: a team based on what it's accomplished, right, and when
Speaker 4: they won their first nine games, you say, okay, I
Speaker 4: see what this team can do. Now go out and
Speaker 4: do it. And to lose a game against Kansas on
Speaker 4: your home field the way the Cougars did in that
Speaker 4: game and with the mistakes that they made, that's got
Speaker 4: to be disappointing to anybody who is really paying attention
Speaker 4: to the program, let alone fans who root for it.
Speaker 4: And then what happened against Arizona State again more mistakes
Speaker 4: getting in the way. And the funny thing about it is,
Speaker 4: check me if I'm wrong on this fense. If the
Speaker 4: Ute had beaten Iowa State, then that would have cleared
Speaker 4: made the path clear for BYU to get into the
Speaker 4: championship game. Am I getting that right?
Speaker 2: That is correct?
Speaker 4: And you lose that game. It's like, I can see
Speaker 4: you fans going, well, it would have been great to
Speaker 4: win that game, but maybe it wasn't so bad after all.
Speaker 4: But disappointment for BYU after a great start. And I
Speaker 4: was really surprised that Klanie Sataki that he was as
Speaker 4: upbeat as he was after those defeats, because it seems
Speaker 4: to me like he should have been heartbroken and kind
Speaker 4: of pissed off too, and he came out all buoyant
Speaker 4: and whatnot. And I like Kilani you and I know
Speaker 4: him well and he's a bright guy, smart guy. But
Speaker 4: I don't know what message was being sent there. It
Speaker 4: seemed like it should have been some degree of anger
Speaker 4: and a whole heaping of disappointment as far as the Utes.
Speaker 4: I mean, that thing just blew apart. And I'm as
Speaker 4: guilty as anyone you are too. We both predicted a
Speaker 4: great season for Utah, and I've been watching football forer
Speaker 4: where longer than I really want to admit right now,
Speaker 4: and I still look back and I mean, I understand
Speaker 4: what happened to the team, and I can see why
Speaker 4: it's all apart, but I'm still I mean, Utah's too
Speaker 4: good of a football program to have what happened to
Speaker 4: it happened.
Speaker 1: All right, Gerido, last thing before I say you loose,
Speaker 1: and I'm glad you wrote on this. So Kevin Young
Speaker 1: and the BYU basketball program went back east for a
Speaker 1: non con game at Providence and they got smoked and
Speaker 1: they've lost two of three.
Speaker 2: So Young team's going to take some time to Joe.
Speaker 1: That really wasn't the main story because once again a
Speaker 1: group of fans at a sporting event decided to launch
Speaker 1: into the chant that we've heard before, which is f
Speaker 1: the Mormons over and over and over. And look, I
Speaker 1: don't really exist in the space of what Aboutism's very much.
Speaker 1: I'm not here for the whole like, well, what if
Speaker 1: it was the Jews or what like in a vacuum
Speaker 1: as far as what this chant has kind of done,
Speaker 1: as far as the damage to folks that you and
Speaker 1: I know in this community, that certainly are members and
Speaker 1: active members of the LDS Faith. I just don't know
Speaker 1: why it feels like it's more acceptable for an f
Speaker 1: the Mormons, chance that we hear often not just basketball,
Speaker 1: but football too, And I don't know why it seems
Speaker 1: to be so societally acceptable to knock on a group
Speaker 1: of people that, from my vantage point, most of whom
Speaker 1: are very kind, hardworking, community orientated people. I know there
Speaker 1: are plenty of people that have issues with the faith.
Speaker 1: That's not a time, that's not a conversation. That is
Speaker 1: for this time and for this platform. But unpack what
Speaker 1: you wrote and your thoughts on yet another chant aimed
Speaker 1: at members of the LDS faith.
Speaker 2: F the Mormons.
Speaker 1: The BYU basketball experience to Providence, Yeah.
Speaker 4: Pretty remarkable. And look, as I wrote, I have great
Speaker 4: respect for the LDS Faith. I'm a part of that.
Speaker 4: I do have some questions, and I bring those questions
Speaker 4: up well in the regular in public settings. So you know,
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm not sitting here being defensive or having
Speaker 4: some sort of persecution complex. This is totally out of
Speaker 4: line and it's a cheap shot, and I just I
Speaker 4: don't understand why people do that. I mean, I could
Speaker 4: get a little political on this, and then it gets
Speaker 4: real sort of contradictory. But we're living in a place
Speaker 4: now that seems like a blessing has been given to
Speaker 4: be able to describe other people in detegrating terms. I'll
Speaker 4: say it that way, and people can read into that
Speaker 4: comment whatever they want or blame whoever they want. But
Speaker 4: for a crowd to be chanting, that is ridiculous. And
Speaker 4: I talked to a guy I had in a column
Speaker 4: who was at the game with his ten year old daughter,
Speaker 4: and he just said it was very uncomfortable for them.
Speaker 4: And he said, look, I'm not a prude. He said,
Speaker 4: I wouldn't even mind it if they said F BYU,
Speaker 4: but f the Mormons and really all of them, the
Speaker 4: entire religion. And I get it. It's a conservative faith
Speaker 4: that take some positions that some people don't like, and
Speaker 4: they feel as though they're somewhat disrespected by some of
Speaker 4: those positions. I understand that we can disagree, though, without
Speaker 4: chanting F the so and so, especially a religion that
Speaker 4: and just like in my calm, the father the president
Speaker 4: of Providence College, he said, look, this is totally out
Speaker 4: of line. We're going to address it on campus. This
Speaker 4: is not a reflection of what we peach here, and
Speaker 4: I think the students there should listen to what the
Speaker 4: preschool president says.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well said. All right, my friend, appreciate the time.
Speaker 1: Hopefully we can get you back in studio coming up
Speaker 1: next week.
Speaker 2: Have a great week.
Speaker 4: An all right, Cordo, all right, you too. Spent's good
Speaker 4: talking with you.