Speaker 1: Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 2: It beats listening to nothing.
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, Being Frank, where the only way to
Speaker 3: be is Frank.
Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to Being Frank, where the only
Speaker 1: way to be is Frank. I'm your host, Frank Lebono,
Speaker 1: and I'd like to thank you for joining us on
Speaker 1: what we like to call the Intelligent Conversation Podcast, where
Speaker 1: no conversation is out of bounds. In all points of
Speaker 1: view are welcome. We record life to tape. I always
Speaker 1: give you the date so we have some context and relevance.
Speaker 1: It is the twenty sixth of February twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: President Trump and his administration have issued a dizzy number
Speaker 1: of executive orders and policy changes. In my opinion, the
Speaker 1: great majority of them are indefensible and inefficient at best,
Speaker 1: deplorable at worst. Among those in the last a category
Speaker 1: is mister Trump's new policy on Ukraine. Simply put, his
Speaker 1: statements and behavior have indicated that he has chosen the
Speaker 1: real dictator putin over not only Ukraine itself, but our
Speaker 1: European allies as well. His policy of appeasing a madman
Speaker 1: reeks of the feeble attempt to halt Adolf Hitler that
Speaker 1: led to the carnage of World War Two, and perhaps
Speaker 1: the most egregious example of this is the shocking vote
Speaker 1: on the recent UN resolution condemning Russia's illegal invasion of
Speaker 1: Ukraine when the US sided not only with Russia but
Speaker 1: other Paria states like North Korea and Sudan. When reviewed
Speaker 1: in the context of our history and traditions, it's downright disturbing.
Speaker 1: But that's relatively easy for me to say. I'm safely
Speaker 1: removed from the people it affects the most, the Ukrainians,
Speaker 1: but we have the great pleasure to welcome back to
Speaker 1: being Frank, someone who has been with them from the
Speaker 1: very beginning of the conflict. He is a former CBS
Speaker 1: News colleague and has reported on some of the most
Speaker 1: important stories of our generation from every corner of the globe.
Speaker 1: I call him our intrepid reporter because that's exactly what
Speaker 1: he is, mister Phil Hittner. Phil, thank you again for
Speaker 1: taking the time. I'm sure it's very busy to say
Speaker 1: the least.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it's the three year anniversary. Aside from all
Speaker 3: the rest of it. Monday was the three year anniversary
Speaker 3: at the beginning of the full scale invasion so the
Speaker 3: pref Corps has returned and at least momentarily, and there's
Speaker 3: some renewed interest in the story. Hopefully that will lasts
Speaker 3: longer than some previous periods of time during the war.
Speaker 3: And then it doesn't help that the President of the
Speaker 3: United States is running in an extortion ring when it
Speaker 3: comes to Ukraine's natural resources.
Speaker 1: Have and I have these all of these are points
Speaker 1: we want to touch on. I have a of course,
Speaker 1: my little list, but first and I always want to
Speaker 1: start out, how are you?
Speaker 3: Where are you?
Speaker 1: Would you set the stage for us a little bit
Speaker 1: and and then and then we'll go from there.
Speaker 3: I'm in my Kyev apartment, which is about a ten
Speaker 3: minute walk to a studio that were we rent here
Speaker 3: where we do a weekly roughly hour long interview show
Speaker 3: called on the Edge, which is out on YouTube and
Speaker 3: now is going to be on substack as well. You know,
Speaker 3: we uh, we get some quiet nights, but more often
Speaker 3: than not we'll get at least one or two air
Speaker 3: alarm alert and more often than not we we also
Speaker 3: will get air defense being shot into the sky, you know,
Speaker 3: it's floss in the sky. Sadly, sometimes missiles get through,
Speaker 3: drones get through or even if they are intercepted, the
Speaker 3: parts will fall on the city. So it's kind of
Speaker 3: a lottery. Uh, And you know, we still take casualties
Speaker 3: pretty much every day, and Jeff and then you know,
Speaker 3: and then some of the other cities around the country
Speaker 3: are are far worse as well, especially the closer you
Speaker 3: get to the battle lines. Harki gets hit every day,
Speaker 3: you know, Kirsan gets hit every day, lots of Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's you know, still a very active war zone, even
Speaker 3: though even when you're not on the front line. They
Speaker 3: tried to stick out the electrical grid. That was their
Speaker 3: primary objective, and they don't seem to have done that.
Speaker 3: We've maintained pretty much maintained electricity and heating and we're
Speaker 3: you know, getting into we're headed towards the spring. So
Speaker 3: it looks like we made it through, which is which
Speaker 3: is a good thing. But just I guess on a
Speaker 3: final notice as to the situation here in the city,
Speaker 3: there's growing concern that they won't have air defense because
Speaker 3: of the possibility of America with drawing and support. And
Speaker 3: one of the primary systems we have here is the
Speaker 3: Patriot system, and there's a lot of concern here that
Speaker 3: they'll run out of AMMO and if that happens, then
Speaker 3: they won't be able to intercept those almost nightly attacks
Speaker 3: by drones or missiles, which means a lot more sadly,
Speaker 3: a lot more people to get to die unless this
Speaker 3: thing is concluded.
Speaker 1: That was one of the questions I have on my
Speaker 1: list my list, and we can. I want to develop
Speaker 1: it a little bit further to what role Europe if
Speaker 1: they may pick up the slack at a minute or two.
Speaker 1: But you mentioned something I think it's timely to get
Speaker 1: to now. It's the third anniversary of the invasion, just
Speaker 1: within a few days of our tapic two point question. First,
Speaker 1: did you expect in those early days for it to
Speaker 1: last this long? And then part two? What has really
Speaker 1: changed since then?
Speaker 3: I hoped that it wouldn't last this long. I thought
Speaker 3: it was distinctly possible. There was a period of time
Speaker 3: when I thought the wind was at the well. I
Speaker 3: didn't just think that the wind was at the Ukrainians back.
Speaker 3: They had a lot of momentum. They regained they regained
Speaker 3: control of Harky, they could regain control of Kirshan, even
Speaker 3: though you know they continue to fight over them. And
Speaker 3: I was hoping that you know, it would be about
Speaker 3: an eighteen months or maybe a two year war. Then
Speaker 3: what happened, unfortunately, was that the Biden administration, apparently hearing escalation,
Speaker 3: had some really unfortunate limitations on what they could do
Speaker 3: with some of the weaponry we were sending them, and
Speaker 3: we were giving them enough weaponry to control the battle space,
Speaker 3: but they weren't. They didn't have enough longer range artillery
Speaker 3: to strike into logistics, command and control. And more importantly
Speaker 3: than anything else, the Russians off the front lines were
Speaker 3: building defenses in anticipation of the Ukrainian offensive, and they
Speaker 3: were unimpeded because the Ukrainians couldn't shoot at them because
Speaker 3: the Biden administration in particular, although there are other European nations,
Speaker 3: the Germans in particular, who were very very afraid of
Speaker 3: escalation in retrospect, overly cautious, I.
Speaker 1: Was just going to say, rightly so, you believe overly so.
Speaker 3: Then when the Ukrainians launched an offensive to try and
Speaker 3: push well basically to try and push to the sea, uh,
Speaker 3: they weren't able to make the progress that they had
Speaker 3: hoped or that they had kind of been hyped up,
Speaker 3: not internally within Ukraine. But there were a lot of
Speaker 3: voices in the West saying, you know, they're gonna they're
Speaker 3: gonna really look at what they did in Hart even
Speaker 3: here so on Uh this is they're they're gonna just
Speaker 3: crush it. Uh. And they ran into a wall, They
Speaker 3: ran into a lot of defenses that the Reference were
Speaker 3: allowed to build again because the Ukrainians were uh limited
Speaker 3: in what they could do. And then that and then
Speaker 3: that reverberated into a lot of difficulty within the Ukraine
Speaker 3: in armed forces. It is said to have contributed greatly
Speaker 3: to a change in the command here, swapping out the
Speaker 3: commanding General Zuluzhni for the current commanding General Sushi. So
Speaker 3: they had the advantage at the beginning the first year
Speaker 3: to whatever, fifteen some on whatever. They had a long
Speaker 3: period of advantages and the potential was there for them
Speaker 3: to really push out on the Spring offensive. I guess
Speaker 3: it would have been two thousand and four twenty four, yeah, remember,
Speaker 3: and that was a real big blow for people to
Speaker 3: give support to Ukraine because it blunt that momentum. So
Speaker 3: those were the kind of major periods of the war,
Speaker 3: and then we fall into a long extended period of yeah.
Speaker 1: That was gonna be. My question is it has it
Speaker 1: become a war of attrition almost World War One, a
Speaker 1: kind of a trench warfare where they're just lobbing at
Speaker 1: one and nobody's going anywhere. Really would you?
Speaker 3: Well, no, because it's similar, but it's different in the
Speaker 3: sense that it is not a static line. Out east.
Speaker 3: The Russians are gaining territory, but they're gaining it extremely
Speaker 3: slow because and I've been out there and I commented
Speaker 3: on this many times before, the Ukrainians are not fools.
Speaker 3: They were expected they were you know, they have been
Speaker 3: building defenses not for three years, but for a decade
Speaker 3: out in the Dabas, and I've been to those areas
Speaker 3: that territory and it's just defensive line after defensive line
Speaker 3: after defensive line, and they keep falling back. So it's
Speaker 3: it's not strictly speaking static. The Ukrainians are losing territory
Speaker 3: slowly but steadily, but that plays into their game plan.
Speaker 3: They they they anticipated that They're what they're doing is
Speaker 3: they're holding Moscow back and they're making them pay for
Speaker 3: every single inch. I mean, they're the Russians are going
Speaker 3: to cross the one million man casualty mark. Probably in
Speaker 3: the next month or two. Wow, they will have lost
Speaker 3: a million men in this war. Because Ukraine's defense is
Speaker 3: so just it's yeah, it's yeah, and it's and it's
Speaker 3: it's it's a mix between the the the groundworks, the
Speaker 3: battle works, the engineering that was done, that has been done,
Speaker 3: and then you include also going into urban centers, and
Speaker 3: also the the resistance and the will power in the
Speaker 3: training and the ferocity of the Ukrainian soldiers.
Speaker 1: The mindset lives, yes, and the mindset you know here
Speaker 1: Phil there be a few reports and it leads to
Speaker 1: a question. You know, Trump has made these incredibly inflammatory statements,
Speaker 1: calling Zelensky the dictator, which is bs people know that
Speaker 1: yet that's here. They talked about the effect of morale,
Speaker 1: that fighting spirit that it can have, especially with a
Speaker 1: fighting force that's been added for so long. It's been
Speaker 1: three hard years. Now what kind of effect do statements
Speaker 1: like that have on the people in Kieva and Ukraine?
Speaker 3: Does it? Does it give them? Yeah? Some of the soldiers,
Speaker 3: some of the soldiers in the Ukrainian Armed Forces have
Speaker 3: been out there for ten years, you know, so it's
Speaker 3: an existential threat. As I said, it's an existential threat
Speaker 3: in c them. Russia wants to destroy Ukraine as an idea,
Speaker 3: as an identity, and so it's and they know their
Speaker 3: enemy better than anybody, and they know what Moscow's intent is.
Speaker 3: What is an imperial war trying to regain their most
Speaker 3: important foundational colony, and this is colonization. It is the
Speaker 3: whole idea that Moscow has is to deny that there
Speaker 3: is such a thing as Ukraine. So they of course
Speaker 3: they're going to fight because it's everything, and it's not
Speaker 3: just their loved ones at home, it's countless generations stretching
Speaker 3: off into the future, and they know it. So I
Speaker 3: was never I was not surprised. Apparently the Kremlin was surprised,
Speaker 3: but I was never surprised that they would put up
Speaker 3: a defense like this, because you know, they don't want
Speaker 3: to live like Russia. Russia has a very different culture,
Speaker 3: even though they like to pretend they don't. Ukrainians are
Speaker 3: pretty dead set that they are different, a different people.
Speaker 3: So when well, you know, the thing is, when Donald
Speaker 3: Trump says these things, it's offensive, it's it's depressing. Ukrainians
Speaker 3: are sad to see what they thought to genuinely be
Speaker 3: the beacon on the hell that they would be that,
Speaker 3: you know, it's America that they aspired to be part of,
Speaker 3: and they saw it as a partnership. And then to
Speaker 3: see the betrayal and to see the President of the
Speaker 3: United States parrotying almost word for word Kremlin talking points
Speaker 3: in Vladimir Putin's speeches, you know, they're they're very grateful
Speaker 3: for the aid that has already been given and they'll
Speaker 3: never they're not going to forget that anytime soon. But
Speaker 3: this is a massive betrayal and they know it. And
Speaker 3: the if there is an upside, it's a curious thing
Speaker 3: about Ukrainians. And I don't think it's just Ukrainians. I
Speaker 3: think I think there's there's something in Slavic identity. I mean,
Speaker 3: you take the take the Serbs and there, and they
Speaker 3: still revere a battle that they lost badly to the
Speaker 3: Turks back in like the fifteenth century, and they celebrate it.
Speaker 3: There's there's something about, you know, like not even if
Speaker 3: we are defeated, if we go down swinging, then we
Speaker 3: have honor and it's something that informs us in our
Speaker 3: historical identity and our cultural identity.
Speaker 1: They're not Americans to forgive me and I try to
Speaker 1: be trade or whatever, but right now with what we're
Speaker 1: talking about, that's like wow, it's.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it should be. It's I mean, maybe
Speaker 3: it's something that we need to be an America, need
Speaker 3: to be reminded of. And maybe it's the Ukrainians who
Speaker 3: will do it. I mean we could. We should all
Speaker 3: be inspired by the resilience of uk And not only that,
Speaker 3: but why they're fighting. They're fighting for the same values
Speaker 3: that our founding fathers fought against King George. It's just
Speaker 3: unfortunately their imperial master is right next door, as opposed
Speaker 3: to an ocean away, but they're still fighting to the ideals.
Speaker 3: And what upset what I think more than insulting Zelenski,
Speaker 3: there was.
Speaker 4: Also this this thing of the of the no elections
Speaker 4: uh uh narrative that Donald Trump put forward, disparaging Ukraine
Speaker 4: as not being a democracy and nothing could be further
Speaker 4: from the truce.
Speaker 3: And that they were insulted on behalf of their president.
Speaker 3: They were proud that their president stood up not only
Speaker 3: against Vladimir Putin but now is standing up to Donald Trump.
Speaker 3: That gives them a certain amount of pride. The anger,
Speaker 3: the resentment I think comes from this accusation that they're
Speaker 3: not a democracy. It's an insult to every single Ukrainian
Speaker 3: the we're living under martial law here. We were living
Speaker 3: under martial law because we're at war, because we were
Speaker 3: in Vain, and you don't under the Ukraine. And it
Speaker 3: also just shows up a blatant disregard to find out
Speaker 3: the facts of what it is you're talking about. It
Speaker 3: is illegal under the Ukrainian constitution to hold an election
Speaker 3: in periods of martial law. Law was voted on by
Speaker 3: the parliament legally, it was all done above board. They
Speaker 3: gathered to I have an episode with a member of
Speaker 3: the parliament who was there on the day when they voted,
Speaker 3: and it's an incredibly moving story of them desperately trying
Speaker 3: to get a quorum together so that their vote would
Speaker 3: be valid. All the while the bombs were falling on
Speaker 3: the city of Kiev, and nobody knew whether or not
Speaker 3: tanks would be rolling down the main street here headed
Speaker 3: to the Parliament building. Obviously that would be a place
Speaker 3: that they'd want to secure. So she tells the story
Speaker 3: of trying to get enough people in there to get
Speaker 3: a quorum. They were able to do it, but the
Speaker 3: guards at the building said we'll give you ten minutes
Speaker 3: because we don't know if this building has been targeted
Speaker 3: or not, and at any moment we could get a
Speaker 3: missile to you know here, And she tells the story
Speaker 3: and it is incredibly emotional that they are that they first,
Speaker 3: first of all, they put forward the plan of martial law.
Speaker 3: Then they say to one another, during this period of
Speaker 3: martial law, we're not going to infight. And then they
Speaker 3: vote on the law. They vote on the installation of
Speaker 3: martial law, and as they are doing it, they are
Speaker 3: singing the Ukrainian anthem and they're weakened power and it's
Speaker 3: it's you know, they did it diploma. They did it democratically.
Speaker 3: That was a legal vote taken by the parliament to
Speaker 3: install martial law. And again under the constitution, you can't
Speaker 3: hold it's illegal. Now they could gather and they could
Speaker 3: amend the law if they wanted to. They don't want to.
Speaker 3: They've got more important things to be doing. So the
Speaker 3: statement that Donald Trump came out with just this week
Speaker 3: about how it's not they were within the last week
Speaker 3: that it's not a democracy, that Zelenski is a legitimate
Speaker 3: because he hasn't been voted in that I think offended
Speaker 3: them greater than the insults to Zelenski. Looks, lots of
Speaker 3: people understand that Donald Trump hates Zelensky, that there's a
Speaker 3: he's a that Donald Trump is a pretty petty guy
Speaker 3: and he plays favorites and he doesn't like Zolensky, and
Speaker 3: they're not happy about it. But the kind of as
Speaker 3: I say, I think pride in the fact that Telenski's
Speaker 3: standing up to both Putin and Trump. But again that
Speaker 3: that the narrative that there this place isn't the democracy
Speaker 3: is pretty offensive. No.
Speaker 1: I talked and actually, as we were taping today, was
Speaker 1: watching a little CNN in the background, and it was
Speaker 1: an update, and you mentioned the whole thing about Ukraine's
Speaker 1: mineral wealth. Let me as you get into it and
Speaker 1: let me play the devil's advocate, if you will, at
Speaker 1: the same time by saying, first of all, this the
Speaker 1: d is that the US under Trump will continue to
Speaker 1: support if Ukraine's turns over, if you will sells the
Speaker 1: mineral rights for their vast and very lucrative mineral deposits. Okay,
Speaker 1: here again playing the devil's advocate, Donald Trump says, well,
Speaker 1: we've spent millions and billions of dollars in Ukraine. What's
Speaker 1: wrong with recouping some of that through a quote unquote
Speaker 1: business transaction. Your thoughts Ukraine's thoughts on that. I have
Speaker 1: my own afterwards, but let's get yours first, please, they're
Speaker 1: more important than mine.
Speaker 3: Well, I think there's a depending on what the finer
Speaker 3: details of the agreement are. I think actually it'll be
Speaker 3: welcomed here because everybody's exhausted and they just want the
Speaker 3: word to end. It's also worth noting that this wasn't
Speaker 3: Trump's idea. This was a Lindsay's ideas. Lency's floated this
Speaker 3: idea before Trump. But what happened subsequently is that Trump
Speaker 3: then came back with a deal that was I mean,
Speaker 3: it was outrageous. It was, you know, we get all
Speaker 3: of your minerals in perpetuity sort of thing, and we
Speaker 3: also get this, and we also get that. And you know,
Speaker 3: Zelensi said, well, no, that's I was proposing making a
Speaker 3: deal so that you would you would invest, and that
Speaker 3: would strengthen our alliance. That would strengthen it, and of
Speaker 3: course we would give you favorable status and you would
Speaker 3: get to you would get you know, a very favorable
Speaker 3: deal when it comes to extraction, and of course if
Speaker 3: you wanted to work it out that that was the
Speaker 3: exchange for continued military support or financial support, then we
Speaker 3: can discuss all these things. Trump comes back with this
Speaker 3: thing that is just like we basically get your country,
Speaker 3: and the one thing that Trump and I and further
Speaker 3: actually than just Trump, but DC as a whole, and
Speaker 3: so Brussels, I would argue as well, they need to
Speaker 3: understand something about this country that I really don't think
Speaker 3: they do, and that is that in twenty fourteen, when
Speaker 3: they had the mind on uprising here in the Capitol,
Speaker 3: the so called Revolution of dignity, something I've been coming
Speaker 3: here for twenty five years, so I was coming here
Speaker 3: before the mind on something fundamentally changed in the character
Speaker 3: of the nation, the Ukrainian nation, and that is they said,
Speaker 3: We're not going to be a colony anymore. We are
Speaker 3: done with being colonized. We're going to blaze our own path,
Speaker 3: we have our own identity. For centuries this country has
Speaker 3: been used as a pawn in a chess game by
Speaker 3: larger power players, and we're not doing that anymore. We're
Speaker 3: happy to have alliances, we're happy to have friends, but
Speaker 3: We're not just going to swap Moscow for DC or
Speaker 3: Brussels or London or whatever. And you've seen them do
Speaker 3: this repeatedly that we've seen them do this where they
Speaker 3: take on board, you know, pressures or you know, kind
Speaker 3: of instructions or what have you from the West, and
Speaker 3: they say, well, we'll take that on board, but we're
Speaker 3: the ones who are going to make the decision, and
Speaker 3: so we better you know, Dunal jump better recognize that
Speaker 3: past and actually the rest of you know, the rest
Speaker 3: of the Western world in DC, the diplomatic core and
Speaker 3: d C Apprussels I better recognized that as well.
Speaker 1: But they're there if I might fail to jump in
Speaker 1: because I think it's a good point and I had
Speaker 1: it in one of my questions. And it's relative to
Speaker 1: what JDVA Vice President JD Vance when he was in
Speaker 1: Europe and in Germany and made that incredible speech which
Speaker 1: made it very clear that the United States was not
Speaker 1: going to play much of a role, if any, so
Speaker 1: that Europe would have to be able to pick up
Speaker 1: the slack. Are they willing to do that?
Speaker 3: Can they do that?
Speaker 1: Should they do that? Your your thoughts? I think it's
Speaker 1: relative to the conversation where I have right.
Speaker 3: Now, Yeah, I think they can. They're going to have
Speaker 3: to step it up real fast. I saw that the
Speaker 3: Prime Minister of Denmark had a really moving speech here
Speaker 3: at a I think they were twelve or thirteen heads
Speaker 3: of state came here to mark the three year anniversary,
Speaker 3: and the Prime Minister of Denmark made this very impassioned
Speaker 3: speech in which she said, we can do this, but
Speaker 3: we have to start now today, not in a month,
Speaker 3: not in two months. We need to start switching to
Speaker 3: a war economy because Ukraine is the shield that is
Speaker 3: defending liberal democracy in Western Europe. And it's one hundred
Speaker 3: percent true. The Russians will not stop with Ukraine. That
Speaker 3: is I'm sure of that. And I don't mean to
Speaker 3: say that they're going to have tanks rolling down the
Speaker 3: Charles Lys or you know whatever, you know, planes fly
Speaker 3: dropping bombs on London. But what they will do is
Speaker 3: they will have undue influence because that threat will then
Speaker 3: be there, and the threat will be there without the
Speaker 3: aid and assistance of the United States. It's a completely
Speaker 3: new geopolitical landscape and that's down to Donald Trump and
Speaker 3: Vladimir Putin, and it's disturbing because it's almost as it's
Speaker 3: exactly what they want. Jade Vance and Donald Trump and
Speaker 3: those in the maggot camp who are critical of our
Speaker 3: alliances with the European Union or with NATO are really
Speaker 3: not looking beyond the tip of their nose. They don't
Speaker 3: understand that actually, a prosperous, unified, safe Europe is an
Speaker 3: extremely good ally and an extremely good trading partner for US.
Speaker 3: You know, there's negotiators that happen, and every country pursues
Speaker 3: its own interests, but we trade very well with Europe,
Speaker 3: and Europe with US. I know some people have squabbles,
Speaker 3: but at the end of the day, a unified Europe,
Speaker 3: free and democratic is a better trading partner and ally
Speaker 3: than one that is fractured. And that's what the Kremlin
Speaker 3: is trying to do. Now take that one step further,
Speaker 3: and the Transatlantic alliance is equally something that provides enormous
Speaker 3: benefit that can't be quantified. And it's not just about
Speaker 3: dollars and cents. It's about relationships. It's about order, it's
Speaker 3: about the rule of law, it's about common cause, it's
Speaker 3: about common belief in democracy. All of these things should
Speaker 3: be bolstered and should bring us together. And yet it
Speaker 3: seems that Maga and Trump and Dance as an extension
Speaker 3: of that, must for example, as an extension of that,
Speaker 3: are really more interested in breaking apart alliances than they
Speaker 3: are in maintaining them. And that is exactly, I mean,
Speaker 3: exactly what the Kremlin wants. And it gives me really
Speaker 3: serious anxiety that we are we have been played, and
Speaker 3: that we are in the middle of a psychological information
Speaker 3: war and a game, well not a game, because it's
Speaker 3: a war. People are dying, a conflict between the West
Speaker 3: and the Kremlin that we don't even know is happening
Speaker 3: most of us, and we're losing, in my opinion, my estimation,
Speaker 3: that war. The Ukrainians will are fighting this war as
Speaker 3: best they can and they're not losing. They're they're seeding territory,
Speaker 3: but they're making as a discuss, they're making a recipe
Speaker 3: for every but what is happening on the global stage
Speaker 3: in what is a war, Make no mistake about it.
Speaker 3: The Kremlin things that were with us, and they are
Speaker 3: acting accordingly, and we are getting our backsides handed to us.
Speaker 1: A great way to segue into my next question too,
Speaker 1: and we had discussed it in one of our previous
Speaker 1: programs the separation between the Russian government and the Russian people,
Speaker 1: and at that point that it was very difficult to
Speaker 1: separate the two. After all, the Russian soldiers were supporting Putin, etc.
Speaker 1: So at some point you can't separate the two. I'm
Speaker 1: afraid we're starting to see a very similar situation here
Speaker 1: in the United States, where there are many it's fractured.
Speaker 1: You were here briefly and we actually met a few
Speaker 1: months back, but the state of the country now, the
Speaker 1: incredible amount of division here where there are people who
Speaker 1: continue to support Ukraine, while at the same time, our
Speaker 1: elected government does not. Can Ukrainians and should they separate
Speaker 1: the two things that the American government is doing one
Speaker 1: thing and often even though there was an election without
Speaker 1: the direct and we've seen it happening over and over
Speaker 1: again without the direct approval of Congress and the people.
Speaker 1: So can I guess the ultimate question is do Ukrainians
Speaker 1: see that and see the struggle that's coming happening even
Speaker 1: internally here within the United States?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 3: Some do, Uh, that's fraying. Some have outright abandoned America
Speaker 3: and have said you you, you've betrayed us. You didn't
Speaker 3: hold good to your promises that you made. There. I
Speaker 3: have not a lot of anger, but there is. They're
Speaker 3: they're just they're deeply disappointed. They do feel betrayed. A
Speaker 3: lot of people do recognize that it's Donald Trump and
Speaker 3: the Maga movement and that that's not all of America. Uh,
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's going to keep going. Some
Speaker 3: Ukrainians are even savvy enough, and this is I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't encounter this a lot, but I do encounter
Speaker 3: it where they say, look, we we get it, we
Speaker 3: have we we were under attack by Moscow in our
Speaker 3: body politic They manipulated our politics, they manipulated they created
Speaker 3: tensions within civil society so that we were at each
Speaker 3: other's throats. And they did that by design. And we
Speaker 3: see that in America and that I'm heartened that Ukrainians
Speaker 3: are expressing that. But I just we more Americans recognize
Speaker 3: the fact that Moscow is inside our body politics, inside
Speaker 3: our societies, inside all of it. They are. They're pulling strings,
Speaker 3: they're stoking fires, they are causing division. They cannot beat
Speaker 3: us on the battlefield, so they know that if they
Speaker 3: can beat us in breaking us off from our partners
Speaker 3: and allies and friends, but also turn American against American.
Speaker 3: That that is in their interest, and they're extremely good
Speaker 3: at it. They know all the fault lines, and many
Speaker 3: Ukrainians recognize that what they did here to divide and
Speaker 3: conquer is clearly what's happening in the United States right now.
Speaker 1: Perfect again, perfect setup, Phil, if you will to we're
Speaker 1: going to take a little break, but I want to
Speaker 1: tease one of the one of the ways, and it's
Speaker 1: it's right out of the if you will, the fascist
Speaker 1: textbook one oh one. Control the message, control the media, okay,
Speaker 1: and we see that happening here in the United States
Speaker 1: with the AP and now the White House choosing which reporters.
Speaker 1: Obviously those who favor the White House will now be
Speaker 1: allowed the prime seats. Anyway, we'll talk about that. I
Speaker 1: certainly need your opinion as a journalist, as a freeman,
Speaker 1: as an American and Englishman, and now an adopted Ukrainian
Speaker 1: as well. So we're going to talk about that in
Speaker 1: the future for Phil Ititner take a quick break, but
Speaker 1: we'll be right back after these brief commercial messages. This
Speaker 1: is being Frank. I'm your host, Frank Lobono. This is
Speaker 1: truly intelligent conversation. Much more to come. Don't go anywhere,
Speaker 1: We'll be right back.
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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Being Frank, the Intelligent Conversation podcast. Thanks
Speaker 1: for sticking with us. I'm your host, Frank Lebono. Our
Speaker 1: engineer is the mailman, mister Neil Richter. Our very special
Speaker 1: guests coming to us live from keV, Ukraine is mister
Speaker 1: Phil Dner. You know, we bring our audience a fresh
Speaker 1: topic just about every week and stream from Hudson River Radio,
Speaker 1: which is located and beautiful and truly historic Stony Point,
Speaker 1: New York. But remember you can catch Being Frank anywhere
Speaker 1: you get your favorite podcasts, and because every Being Frank
Speaker 1: is archived, you can listen to any of our programs
Speaker 1: anytime you like. Find the link to Being Frank on
Speaker 1: the Hudson River Radio Facebook page. We're at our website
Speaker 1: Hudson riverado dot com. Just click and you're there. Let's
Speaker 1: continue our very intelligent conversation with Phil Ittner. As I mentioned,
Speaker 1: he has done us the huge favor of coming to
Speaker 1: us alive from Keev, Ukraine as he has in the past,
Speaker 1: as he has from the very beginning, Phil, I want
Speaker 1: to continue our conversation as fellow journalists too and talking
Speaker 1: about the importance of a free press, because we know
Speaker 1: that who controls the message controls the masses. It's always
Speaker 1: been that way. As a matter of fact, if I
Speaker 1: can paraphrase Thomas Jefferson, he said, if I had a
Speaker 1: choice between no government and no free press, I would
Speaker 1: choose no government. That's how important a free press is.
Speaker 1: And yet stories are, and we know he has sued
Speaker 1: CBS an incredible amount of money billions of dollars for
Speaker 1: quote unquote editing interview, which is ridiculous. They can't see us,
Speaker 1: but you're shaking your head as a mind. Anyone in
Speaker 1: this business knows. That's how it's done and everything that
Speaker 1: can always check it out on my blog, which is
Speaker 1: talk Frank. Forgive the Frank constant referrals, but anyway, it's marketing.
Speaker 1: But all that being said, a free press is absolutely essential.
Speaker 1: So let's get to Phil. It or your thoughts is
Speaker 1: a long time journalist who's put his life on the
Speaker 1: line to tell people the truth.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, it's it's of course, it's incredibly distressing
Speaker 3: that the White House is treating the Press Court, the
Speaker 3: White House Press Corps that way. The administration is treating
Speaker 3: the White House Press Corps that way, you know, excluding
Speaker 3: AP because it won't ben the knee and say the
Speaker 3: Gulf of America is. I mean, that's just absolutely unacceptable.
Speaker 3: The there's so much to talk about when we talk
Speaker 3: about the press because it's been so vilified, and there
Speaker 3: have been some there have been some on side mistakes
Speaker 3: of our own within the media as well. And one
Speaker 3: of the big things is the fact that, you know,
Speaker 3: so many of them are owned by corporate interests. You know,
Speaker 3: there's the old story of you know, executive producer of
Speaker 3: Walter Cronkite CBS News, Walter Kronkite tells it comes in
Speaker 3: late one day, very unusual for him, and he explains
Speaker 3: that he's late because he's been up at corporate and
Speaker 3: it's turned out that sixty minutes is you know, for
Speaker 3: the first time in CBS News, is history has returned
Speaker 3: to profit Because here's to you full are obviously under
Speaker 3: fair usage. It was that was part of how you
Speaker 3: got your license was that you agreed to do a
Speaker 3: certain amount of political programming that and news, and that
Speaker 3: would be seen as your civic duty that would allow
Speaker 3: you to get your license. Because in the United States,
Speaker 3: the airwaves are owned by the people. It's legislated by
Speaker 3: the government, but it's owned by it's it's something owned
Speaker 3: by the people anyhow, you know. And so the point
Speaker 3: is the guy comes in and says sixty minutes to
Speaker 3: make money. Now they're going to want money from news
Speaker 3: all the time, and you get more and more corporatization,
Speaker 3: you give more profit being the motivation for what they
Speaker 3: do with their news agenda, and like where they deploy,
Speaker 3: where they expend money. It's not cheap to go to wars,
Speaker 3: but it's necessary because we need to learn what's happening
Speaker 3: in the you know, globally. So it's not like the
Speaker 3: news business hasn't had a responsibility as well. But this
Speaker 3: constant erosion by the administration of there is there is
Speaker 3: also not only that, but there is no truth. Everybody
Speaker 3: lies unless it's our message. That's incredibly dangerous to an
Speaker 3: informed Electorate's it's very very difficult. I'm you know, here
Speaker 3: in Ukraine, for example, I talk about how expensive it
Speaker 3: is to cover news. The press Corps is left. They
Speaker 3: only return this week to mark the third year anniversary.
Speaker 3: But it's really expensive to maintain a presence here for
Speaker 3: a major news outlet, because you got overhead, you've got insurance,
Speaker 3: you got you know, you got to take care of
Speaker 3: your people. It's not cheap unless you build infrastructure here, Whereas,
Speaker 3: for example, in Israel, they have bureaus, they have cars,
Speaker 3: they have fixtures, they have so for them to cover
Speaker 3: that conflict, they have the overhead, but they haven't built
Speaker 3: any infrastructure here. And I have to say, and I'll
Speaker 3: classifack to you, Frank, but I have to say, and
Speaker 3: I'm unabasked about this, and I'm afraid, you know, I'm
Speaker 3: sorry if I insult some of our former colleagues. But
Speaker 3: the Press Corps has done a miserable job of covering
Speaker 3: this war and explaining it to the American people. And
Speaker 3: why this is so important it is it has been
Speaker 3: a dismal, a dismal performance by the international Press Corps,
Speaker 3: and in particularly the American and the English speaking press Corps.
Speaker 3: The Brits are a little bit better because it's closely
Speaker 3: to home. But the American Press Corps has absolutely abandoned
Speaker 3: this place and has done nothing good, nothing effective in
Speaker 3: explaining why this should matter to your every day you know,
Speaker 3: everyday American, your average Americans should care about what's happening
Speaker 3: in Ukraine for the moral outrage that's happening in here
Speaker 3: and the suffering and the empathy that we should all
Speaker 3: have for Ukrainians, but also it's in our past interest.
Speaker 3: Russia as a resurgent power is a threat to everyone
Speaker 3: on this planet. Okay, the system of governance that they
Speaker 3: want to install and to push and promote and would
Speaker 3: like to see on the entire continent, it is a
Speaker 3: system of government that cares little about the individual citizen,
Speaker 3: cares nothing about their voice unless they're rich and powerful,
Speaker 3: and certainly doesn't want a free press. And we don't
Speaker 3: want to see that on the European continent because ultimately,
Speaker 3: one way or another, it will get back to us
Speaker 3: as well. So all of that is basically to say
Speaker 3: the press needs to do a better job here, and
Speaker 3: we should be concerned about the state of our press,
Speaker 3: both in terms of what's happening in the White House,
Speaker 3: but also in terms of the fact that in so
Speaker 3: many news organizations, the bottom line, the profit margin is
Speaker 3: the priority, not informing the public. It should not fall
Speaker 3: to podcasters and you know little you know, people who
Speaker 3: care about what's happening here to deliver the news. There
Speaker 3: should be yes, right exactly. I mean, I'm here to
Speaker 3: do it. But I shouldn't just be me yes, you know,
Speaker 3: or people of my elk. I'm not the only one here.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to put on airs, but you know
Speaker 3: it are. I'm just very disappointed in our press corper,
Speaker 3: extremely disappointed at press Corper.
Speaker 1: Points well made, well taken. I want to make just
Speaker 1: one more point on the subject before we move on
Speaker 1: to close and hear more about your programming. I want
Speaker 1: you to let people know where you can be seen
Speaker 1: and heard talking about it, but the channels that people
Speaker 1: can literally get to you. Just one more point. And
Speaker 1: we mentioned sixty minutes in the fact that makes money.
Speaker 1: You know, I work for CBS also, and it was
Speaker 1: you know when you talked about often, well, CBA, sixty
Speaker 1: minutes is getting this the best cameraman, the best cameras, etc.
Speaker 1: And they always looked at you and said, because they
Speaker 1: make money, and money talks so you know, with that said,
Speaker 1: but in fairness, especially recently, and we talked a little
Speaker 1: bit about it before we came on the air, and
Speaker 1: I have to say with the Evening News in general
Speaker 1: and their new format with the two host format and
Speaker 1: sixty minutes, has really maintained their integrity overall, especially recently
Speaker 1: with very critical reports of the current administration in JD Vance, etc.
Speaker 1: Scott Pelly's report on Elon Musk to the point where
Speaker 1: the administration is suing them and CBS is not bending. Indeed,
Speaker 1: they are sticking to their journalistic integrity. So you know,
Speaker 1: I thought it was kind of important to make a
Speaker 1: statement and get your feeling that. As I said, you know,
Speaker 1: the reality is and you mentioned it's expensive. You know,
Speaker 1: I made decent money as a photographer, you know, and
Speaker 1: that was never our primary focus. But people are paid,
Speaker 1: they have to travel, you have to feed them, you
Speaker 1: have to house them. So it's not cheap. So that's
Speaker 1: part of the reality. Just talk to that for a
Speaker 1: few minutes.
Speaker 3: Well, you have to house them, you have to feed
Speaker 3: them and all the rest of it, but you also
Speaker 3: have to when they come into places like this, keep
Speaker 3: them safe. So you need you need, you need uh.
Speaker 3: You know, armored cars which are not cheap, you need
Speaker 3: to buy or maintain. You need to have body armor,
Speaker 3: and you know, you need to hire security officials who
Speaker 3: can give you guidance, and God forbid you get hurt.
Speaker 3: You need to have insurance for your you know, the
Speaker 3: people I'm sadly, you know, CBS lost Paul Douglas and
Speaker 3: James Brolind and you raw and sadly, and they will
Speaker 3: never be forgotten. I will remember them for the rest
Speaker 3: of my life. That's their sacrifice that they made to
Speaker 3: try and bring to the American public the information about
Speaker 3: the Iraq War. They you know, their family had to
Speaker 3: be compensated, and rightfully so you know, it's there's expense
Speaker 3: upon expense upon expense, but the benefit of maintaining a
Speaker 3: healthy press court far outweighs any kind of cost analysis.
Speaker 3: I firmly believe. I don't know if the corporations, I
Speaker 3: don't know if Black Rock things that way, but I
Speaker 3: certainly do. And it was one of the great honors
Speaker 3: of my life to work for the house that Murrow built,
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, there was a time, there was
Speaker 3: always a sense of time, whether it was Edward R.
Speaker 3: Murrow or whether it was Don Hewitt, the creator of
Speaker 3: sixty minutes, whether it was Walter Cronkite or Dan Rather,
Speaker 3: these were these There was an a spree de corps
Speaker 3: at CBS, and I don't think that's gone. I know,
Speaker 3: I'm still in contact with people over at CBS. Is
Speaker 3: I'm sure you are, Frank. There are deep, deep, deep, deep,
Speaker 3: deep concerns about the way things are going. But we
Speaker 3: have got to find a way back to having professional journalists,
Speaker 3: not podcasters with no you know, there's a place for podcasting.
Speaker 3: There's a place for individual freelancers who you know, these
Speaker 3: young guys who grab their iPads, you know, their iPhone
Speaker 3: and they run off to a riot or a fire,
Speaker 3: and they serve a role as well. And certainly media
Speaker 3: and news media will change inevitably because the landscape has changed.
Speaker 3: What we absolutely must do and we cannot allow the
Speaker 3: powers that be, whether that is the Trump administration, any
Speaker 3: other White House administration, or in fact our law enforcement
Speaker 3: or are various other elected officials all up and down
Speaker 3: the line, we cannot let them continue. We you know, unquestioned,
Speaker 3: there has to be professional journalists who are trained, are
Speaker 3: who take their vocation seriously and the responsibility of that
Speaker 3: vocation seriously, and I know it's out there, but I
Speaker 3: also know it's under intense pressure and intense threat. And
Speaker 3: we as consumers of news, should be out there constantly
Speaker 3: supporting people who are doing the best they can given
Speaker 3: the circumstances. And not only that, but you know, being
Speaker 3: vocal about that support. We can't lose the fourth Estate,
Speaker 3: or we will our democracy will accelerate in its collapse.
Speaker 3: And I say that because I am deeply concerned about
Speaker 3: her democracy and the fourth of State is a big
Speaker 3: part of that.
Speaker 1: If I might be frank here punt intented, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure you feel the same way. But it pisses me
Speaker 1: off when people start saying, oh, in the fake news
Speaker 1: and said, yeah, yeah, I've risked my life many times
Speaker 1: as they know you have just to lie to you
Speaker 1: the insanity of that, you know, in the eye, and
Speaker 1: say where were you when this was happening. I was
Speaker 1: at nine to eleven, or I was in the middle
Speaker 1: of Hurricane Katrina or whatever, where were you?
Speaker 3: So just the fact that the fact that Paul and
Speaker 3: James died because of an ied planted by Committ wounds
Speaker 3: for the rest of our life sadly. Yeah, and that
Speaker 3: they did that so that they could lie to you.
Speaker 3: Is it is not only nonsensical, it's deeply insulting. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and it fends me greatly. But as we kind of
Speaker 3: roll off, you know, round things up. I mean, you know,
Speaker 3: I will say that there are those out here doing
Speaker 3: the best they can, but it shouldn't be us kind
Speaker 3: of self starters doing it. But I do. I you
Speaker 3: can't see it to the video, but I have a
Speaker 3: studio here in keV that we have that we have soundproof,
Speaker 3: We've got good uh uh uh equipment, cameras and uh
Speaker 3: and video are in microphones. We get good guests. Every week,
Speaker 3: we put out a show eight pm local. I think
Speaker 3: that is uh ten am Pacific in the United States,
Speaker 3: so I guess that would be noon Eastern. I guess
Speaker 3: regardless of eight pm local. We put on a show
Speaker 3: called On the Edge. You can find it on YouTube,
Speaker 3: uh and now on substack. And we're building our own website.
Speaker 3: But I think if you just looked on the Edge,
Speaker 3: Philip Ner, one Alan Philip, two teas and Ner. We
Speaker 3: do it weekly reliably, and we sit down for about
Speaker 3: an hour and we try and get either Ukrainian voices
Speaker 3: here in town or remotely, or we get people who
Speaker 3: have a unique perspective on the conflict, or other people
Speaker 3: who are resisting Moscow's aggression, and we would like to
Speaker 3: build our audience, not for self gratification, but because this
Speaker 3: goes to the idea of journalists as a vocation. This
Speaker 3: is really important, guys. What's happening here is incredibly important,
Speaker 3: and it's not something where you parachute in for the
Speaker 3: three year anniversary. You have to live here and do
Speaker 3: it day in, day out, talking to people, getting a
Speaker 3: sense of things, and then sitting down and trying to
Speaker 3: relate as best you can to an audience. So I
Speaker 3: don't want to grow on the edge for myself. I
Speaker 3: want to grow it because the audience needs to know
Speaker 3: this information and the voice of the true voice of
Speaker 3: Ukraine and those who know about Ukraine need to be amplified.
Speaker 1: You also have a public Facebook page so that people
Speaker 1: do look in and and it's also are you post
Speaker 1: I regularly like your posts and watch your stuff through Facebook.
Speaker 1: So there are a lot of different ways that people
Speaker 1: can find Phill inner and just quickly phil personally. The future.
Speaker 1: I know you're sticking it out. But let us know.
Speaker 3: What, well, yeah, God willing, and you know health and uh,
Speaker 3: you know, a healthy mind and body. I'm here until
Speaker 3: the end. This is too important. So where is it
Speaker 3: gonna go? I don't know. This This the how the
Speaker 3: Trump administration deals with Ukraine. I don't think we've seen.
Speaker 3: I don't think I don't think we've seen the true
Speaker 3: plan yet. And I'm deeply concerned because I do again
Speaker 3: think that the President of the United States has been
Speaker 3: compromised by the Russian Federation and by Vladimir Putin. And
Speaker 3: he may he may do it a good turn here
Speaker 3: or a good turn there, but ultimately he is beholden
Speaker 3: and compromised by Moscow. And that's not good for Kiev.
Speaker 3: But Ukraine will resist no matter what. They will inevitably
Speaker 3: win this war because Russia doesn't have the capacity to
Speaker 3: do what it needs to do militarily, and that is
Speaker 3: to overthrow the government in Kiev and take control of
Speaker 3: the Black Sea by taking Odessa, neither of which they
Speaker 3: have the military capacity to do. But it's gonna be
Speaker 3: a rough, rough year, and I don't know how many
Speaker 3: more years it'll be. And ultimately I don't care if
Speaker 3: Donald Trump does find some way to negotiate a acceptable
Speaker 3: ceasefire to the Ukrainians, that would be great. I'd love
Speaker 3: to go home and do documentaries about Yosemite. But short
Speaker 3: of that, him here to the end because it's too important.
Speaker 3: But it's going to be a really difficult year with
Speaker 3: America turning its back on Ukraine.
Speaker 1: You know, I hate to spring this on you because
Speaker 1: we only have a few minutes, but you mentioned a term,
Speaker 1: and I don't think we talked about it in any
Speaker 1: d tail but if you could, I think it's important,
Speaker 1: and you mentioned it before we came on the air.
Speaker 1: We have a Manchurian candidate in the White House. If
Speaker 1: you would in just a few minutes, and again I
Speaker 1: apologize to I give you more.
Speaker 3: Okay, but people would Lauren Bell start going off when
Speaker 3: when I know that people get very very anxious about
Speaker 3: this topic. Because there's been an information warfare campaign that's
Speaker 3: been extremely productive on the side of the Trump administration,
Speaker 3: the Trump Camp and the Kremlin. They've done an excellent
Speaker 3: job of diminishing the very real threat and damage that
Speaker 3: they're currently doing. I don't say this lightly, and I
Speaker 3: will in order to to not get to outrages and
Speaker 3: people start thinking I'm a conspiracy theorist. The mask is off,
Speaker 3: regardless of what you think about how deep this connection
Speaker 3: and this this compromat or compromise that Trump, that prudent
Speaker 3: might have on Trump. The mask is off already because
Speaker 3: what his actions are enough to show us that Donald
Speaker 3: Trump regurgitates word for word Kremlin talking points, and that
Speaker 3: means Ukrainian soldiers the vote in the UN that denied,
Speaker 3: you know, putting the blame on Russia where it deserves
Speaker 3: to be. It's amazing to see America voting alongside you know,
Speaker 3: Belarus and the DPRK and of course the Kremlin as
Speaker 3: as inflammatory as it is. I've studied the Russians for
Speaker 3: nearly thirty years. I am I am confident in saying
Speaker 3: that we the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump,
Speaker 3: is compromised by the Kremlin, and that should be unacceptable
Speaker 3: for every single American because Moscow has only ill intent
Speaker 3: towards a America. That's not hyperbole.
Speaker 1: Bill Atnaer. As always, we appreciate your candor, your honesty,
Speaker 1: your intelligent conversation, and I mean this, I'm proud to
Speaker 1: call you friends and colleague. I hope to have you back.
Speaker 1: And I keep saying this, but hope springs eternal to
Speaker 1: come back with good news. At some point. The tide
Speaker 1: of the war has turned in favor of Ukraine, and
Speaker 1: so many Americans feel that way. Phil. I want you
Speaker 1: to know that, and I want the Ukrainian people to
Speaker 1: know that as well.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much, and do tune in on the
Speaker 3: Edge every Sunday.
Speaker 1: I absolutely I'll be there, you know. Of course, we
Speaker 1: offer a special thanks to our listeners who take a
Speaker 1: time to give us a voice in their lives. And
Speaker 1: you know, our engineer is the mailman, mister Neil Richter.
Speaker 1: He keeps us going every week. You can also check
Speaker 1: us out on the Hudson River Radio Facebook page. Remember
Speaker 1: Hudson Riverradio dot com. You can just click on our
Speaker 1: little icon and you're there and you can listen to
Speaker 1: us anytime anywhere you like. You know, before we go,
Speaker 1: I always give you a couple of little things, a
Speaker 1: quote that I think is appropriate, and then some original music.
Speaker 1: First the quote and one of my favorites. He's just
Speaker 1: brilliant and this is the true quote from Benjamin Franklin.
Speaker 1: Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a
Speaker 1: little temporary safety. Deserve neither liberty nor safety. Well that's
Speaker 1: kind of right on. Now for closing music, I want
Speaker 1: to give a little preface my dear friends and guest
Speaker 1: on Being Frank. Jeannie Brice And has finally accomplished her
Speaker 1: laver of love the release of her late husband's album
Speaker 1: sing You, a brand new song. He gives me great
Speaker 1: pleasure to present Coleman Millet and life goes on. Check
Speaker 1: out the whole album. It's fantastic for our engineer mister
Speaker 1: Neil Richter and our guest mister Phil Ettner. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Frank Lebono, and we hope to see you on the
Speaker 1: next Being Frank. We're the only way to be is Frank.
Speaker 6: Thanks everybody.
Speaker 7: Listen close and you can hear soulful whisper in your ears,
Speaker 7: soul bad singing, not b seeing you when the moon
Speaker 7: and stars begin to shine. Life goes on, but not
Speaker 7: without the joy of at a song, and I can
Speaker 7: still hear her sing to you and me.
Speaker 1: From the corner a.
Speaker 3: Rough your ride.
Speaker 7: Do you see the little one so sweet.
Speaker 8: Waiting there so patiently for the one who made or
Speaker 8: life complet? Time goes by, we can learn a sing
Speaker 8: a love by life goes on, but not without the
Speaker 8: joy at a song, and I can still hear her sing,
Speaker 8: do you and Me? Time goes by, We can learn
Speaker 8: sing by life goes on without the joy et a.
Speaker 9: Song, and I can still hear her sing, singing with
Speaker 9: the angel Lease, I can still hear her sing, She
Speaker 9: went
Speaker 2: Me Hudson River Radio dot Com MHM