WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.880 --> 00:00:03.000 Hudson River Radio dot com. 2 00:00:03.319 --> 00:00:04.599 It beats listening to nothing. 3 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:10.400 Oh my goodness, Being Frank, where the only way to 4 00:00:10.439 --> 00:00:11.960 be is Frank. 5 00:00:13.839 --> 00:00:17.039 Hello everyone, and welcome to Being Frank, where the only 6 00:00:17.079 --> 00:00:20.839 way to be is Frank. I'm your host, Frank Lebono, 7 00:00:20.920 --> 00:00:22.960 and I'd like to thank you for joining us on 8 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:27.399 what we like to call the Intelligent Conversation Podcast, where 9 00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:30.320 no conversation is out of bounds. In all points of 10 00:00:30.399 --> 00:00:34.000 view are welcome. We record life to tape. I always 11 00:00:34.039 --> 00:00:37.200 give you the date so we have some context and relevance. 12 00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:41.399 It is the twenty sixth of February twenty twenty five. 13 00:00:42.439 --> 00:00:46.520 President Trump and his administration have issued a dizzy number 14 00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:51.320 of executive orders and policy changes. In my opinion, the 15 00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:56.280 great majority of them are indefensible and inefficient at best, 16 00:00:56.560 --> 00:01:00.840 deplorable at worst. Among those in the last a category 17 00:01:01.320 --> 00:01:05.359 is mister Trump's new policy on Ukraine. Simply put, his 18 00:01:05.439 --> 00:01:08.760 statements and behavior have indicated that he has chosen the 19 00:01:08.840 --> 00:01:13.519 real dictator putin over not only Ukraine itself, but our 20 00:01:13.560 --> 00:01:18.120 European allies as well. His policy of appeasing a madman 21 00:01:18.519 --> 00:01:21.879 reeks of the feeble attempt to halt Adolf Hitler that 22 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:25.280 led to the carnage of World War Two, and perhaps 23 00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:28.640 the most egregious example of this is the shocking vote 24 00:01:28.680 --> 00:01:33.120 on the recent UN resolution condemning Russia's illegal invasion of 25 00:01:33.239 --> 00:01:36.799 Ukraine when the US sided not only with Russia but 26 00:01:36.920 --> 00:01:41.480 other Paria states like North Korea and Sudan. When reviewed 27 00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:45.760 in the context of our history and traditions, it's downright disturbing. 28 00:01:46.599 --> 00:01:49.200 But that's relatively easy for me to say. I'm safely 29 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:52.280 removed from the people it affects the most, the Ukrainians, 30 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:55.239 but we have the great pleasure to welcome back to 31 00:01:55.319 --> 00:01:58.239 being Frank, someone who has been with them from the 32 00:01:58.359 --> 00:02:01.719 very beginning of the conflict. He is a former CBS 33 00:02:01.719 --> 00:02:04.239 News colleague and has reported on some of the most 34 00:02:04.319 --> 00:02:08.400 important stories of our generation from every corner of the globe. 35 00:02:08.759 --> 00:02:12.680 I call him our intrepid reporter because that's exactly what 36 00:02:12.800 --> 00:02:15.680 he is, mister Phil Hittner. Phil, thank you again for 37 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:19.520 taking the time. I'm sure it's very busy to say 38 00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:19.960 the least. 39 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:24.400 Well, yeah, it's the three year anniversary. Aside from all 40 00:02:24.439 --> 00:02:26.919 the rest of it. Monday was the three year anniversary 41 00:02:26.919 --> 00:02:31.120 at the beginning of the full scale invasion so the 42 00:02:31.199 --> 00:02:36.000 pref Corps has returned and at least momentarily, and there's 43 00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:41.039 some renewed interest in the story. Hopefully that will lasts 44 00:02:41.159 --> 00:02:45.520 longer than some previous periods of time during the war. 45 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:52.039 And then it doesn't help that the President of the 46 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:55.759 United States is running in an extortion ring when it 47 00:02:55.800 --> 00:02:59.520 comes to Ukraine's natural resources. 48 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:03.159 Have and I have these all of these are points 49 00:03:03.199 --> 00:03:05.280 we want to touch on. I have a of course, 50 00:03:05.319 --> 00:03:07.400 my little list, but first and I always want to 51 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:08.719 start out, how are you? 52 00:03:08.840 --> 00:03:09.360 Where are you? 53 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:11.719 Would you set the stage for us a little bit 54 00:03:11.759 --> 00:03:13.439 and and then and then we'll go from there. 55 00:03:14.639 --> 00:03:18.080 I'm in my Kyev apartment, which is about a ten 56 00:03:18.120 --> 00:03:23.159 minute walk to a studio that were we rent here 57 00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:28.919 where we do a weekly roughly hour long interview show 58 00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:34.000 called on the Edge, which is out on YouTube and 59 00:03:34.039 --> 00:03:39.199 now is going to be on substack as well. You know, 60 00:03:39.319 --> 00:03:46.240 we uh, we get some quiet nights, but more often 61 00:03:46.280 --> 00:03:49.280 than not we'll get at least one or two air 62 00:03:49.319 --> 00:03:54.479 alarm alert and more often than not we we also 63 00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:59.759 will get air defense being shot into the sky, you know, 64 00:03:59.800 --> 00:04:04.639 it's floss in the sky. Sadly, sometimes missiles get through, 65 00:04:04.759 --> 00:04:08.240 drones get through or even if they are intercepted, the 66 00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:11.840 parts will fall on the city. So it's kind of 67 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:16.120 a lottery. Uh, And you know, we still take casualties 68 00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:20.639 pretty much every day, and Jeff and then you know, 69 00:04:20.759 --> 00:04:23.199 and then some of the other cities around the country 70 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:26.160 are are far worse as well, especially the closer you 71 00:04:26.199 --> 00:04:29.240 get to the battle lines. Harki gets hit every day, 72 00:04:30.759 --> 00:04:36.519 you know, Kirsan gets hit every day, lots of Yeah, 73 00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:39.839 it's you know, still a very active war zone, even 74 00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:43.040 though even when you're not on the front line. They 75 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:45.360 tried to stick out the electrical grid. That was their 76 00:04:45.399 --> 00:04:49.279 primary objective, and they don't seem to have done that. 77 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:54.759 We've maintained pretty much maintained electricity and heating and we're 78 00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:59.639 you know, getting into we're headed towards the spring. So 79 00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:02.600 it looks like we made it through, which is which 80 00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:06.800 is a good thing. But just I guess on a 81 00:05:06.879 --> 00:05:09.680 final notice as to the situation here in the city, 82 00:05:09.720 --> 00:05:13.839 there's growing concern that they won't have air defense because 83 00:05:14.959 --> 00:05:19.120 of the possibility of America with drawing and support. And 84 00:05:19.279 --> 00:05:22.399 one of the primary systems we have here is the 85 00:05:22.399 --> 00:05:26.360 Patriot system, and there's a lot of concern here that 86 00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:29.920 they'll run out of AMMO and if that happens, then 87 00:05:30.079 --> 00:05:34.160 they won't be able to intercept those almost nightly attacks 88 00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:38.199 by drones or missiles, which means a lot more sadly, 89 00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:41.199 a lot more people to get to die unless this 90 00:05:41.240 --> 00:05:42.600 thing is concluded. 91 00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:44.600 That was one of the questions I have on my 92 00:05:44.920 --> 00:05:47.319 list my list, and we can. I want to develop 93 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:49.879 it a little bit further to what role Europe if 94 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:51.720 they may pick up the slack at a minute or two. 95 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:54.480 But you mentioned something I think it's timely to get 96 00:05:54.519 --> 00:05:57.639 to now. It's the third anniversary of the invasion, just 97 00:05:57.720 --> 00:06:02.920 within a few days of our tapic two point question. First, 98 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:05.560 did you expect in those early days for it to 99 00:06:05.639 --> 00:06:09.560 last this long? And then part two? What has really 100 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:10.680 changed since then? 101 00:06:13.199 --> 00:06:16.000 I hoped that it wouldn't last this long. I thought 102 00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:20.399 it was distinctly possible. There was a period of time 103 00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:23.079 when I thought the wind was at the well. I 104 00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:25.800 didn't just think that the wind was at the Ukrainians back. 105 00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:31.879 They had a lot of momentum. They regained they regained 106 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:37.040 control of Harky, they could regain control of Kirshan, even 107 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:42.040 though you know they continue to fight over them. And 108 00:06:42.120 --> 00:06:45.319 I was hoping that you know, it would be about 109 00:06:45.319 --> 00:06:50.399 an eighteen months or maybe a two year war. Then 110 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:58.360 what happened, unfortunately, was that the Biden administration, apparently hearing escalation, 111 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:07.319 had some really unfortunate limitations on what they could do 112 00:07:07.399 --> 00:07:09.600 with some of the weaponry we were sending them, and 113 00:07:09.639 --> 00:07:14.959 we were giving them enough weaponry to control the battle space, 114 00:07:15.079 --> 00:07:19.319 but they weren't. They didn't have enough longer range artillery 115 00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:25.480 to strike into logistics, command and control. And more importantly 116 00:07:25.519 --> 00:07:29.920 than anything else, the Russians off the front lines were 117 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:38.920 building defenses in anticipation of the Ukrainian offensive, and they 118 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:42.759 were unimpeded because the Ukrainians couldn't shoot at them because 119 00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:48.279 the Biden administration in particular, although there are other European nations, 120 00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:52.120 the Germans in particular, who were very very afraid of 121 00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:57.680 escalation in retrospect, overly cautious, I. 122 00:07:57.480 --> 00:08:04.480 Was just going to say, rightly so, you believe overly so. 123 00:08:01.399 --> 00:08:08.920 Then when the Ukrainians launched an offensive to try and 124 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:15.639 push well basically to try and push to the sea, uh, 125 00:08:15.680 --> 00:08:18.360 they weren't able to make the progress that they had 126 00:08:18.439 --> 00:08:22.720 hoped or that they had kind of been hyped up, 127 00:08:23.839 --> 00:08:27.160 not internally within Ukraine. But there were a lot of 128 00:08:27.240 --> 00:08:31.600 voices in the West saying, you know, they're gonna they're 129 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:33.639 gonna really look at what they did in Hart even 130 00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:37.000 here so on Uh this is they're they're gonna just 131 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:41.200 crush it. Uh. And they ran into a wall, They 132 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:45.720 ran into a lot of defenses that the Reference were 133 00:08:45.720 --> 00:08:51.679 allowed to build again because the Ukrainians were uh limited 134 00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:54.600 in what they could do. And then that and then 135 00:08:54.600 --> 00:09:00.000 that reverberated into a lot of difficulty within the Ukraine 136 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:04.879 in armed forces. It is said to have contributed greatly 137 00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:08.440 to a change in the command here, swapping out the 138 00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:21.639 commanding General Zuluzhni for the current commanding General Sushi. So 139 00:09:23.919 --> 00:09:27.399 they had the advantage at the beginning the first year 140 00:09:27.559 --> 00:09:32.600 to whatever, fifteen some on whatever. They had a long 141 00:09:32.679 --> 00:09:36.480 period of advantages and the potential was there for them 142 00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:41.720 to really push out on the Spring offensive. I guess 143 00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:49.639 it would have been two thousand and four twenty four, yeah, remember, 144 00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:55.879 and that was a real big blow for people to 145 00:09:55.879 --> 00:10:01.720 give support to Ukraine because it blunt that momentum. So 146 00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:04.879 those were the kind of major periods of the war, 147 00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:08.360 and then we fall into a long extended period of yeah. 148 00:10:08.399 --> 00:10:10.279 That was gonna be. My question is it has it 149 00:10:10.360 --> 00:10:14.519 become a war of attrition almost World War One, a 150 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:17.600 kind of a trench warfare where they're just lobbing at 151 00:10:17.600 --> 00:10:20.639 one and nobody's going anywhere. Really would you? 152 00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:27.600 Well, no, because it's similar, but it's different in the 153 00:10:27.639 --> 00:10:33.399 sense that it is not a static line. Out east. 154 00:10:33.559 --> 00:10:38.559 The Russians are gaining territory, but they're gaining it extremely 155 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:46.679 slow because and I've been out there and I commented 156 00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:51.879 on this many times before, the Ukrainians are not fools. 157 00:10:51.960 --> 00:10:55.480 They were expected they were you know, they have been 158 00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:59.440 building defenses not for three years, but for a decade 159 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:03.279 out in the Dabas, and I've been to those areas 160 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:07.799 that territory and it's just defensive line after defensive line 161 00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:12.120 after defensive line, and they keep falling back. So it's 162 00:11:12.159 --> 00:11:19.360 it's not strictly speaking static. The Ukrainians are losing territory 163 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:24.720 slowly but steadily, but that plays into their game plan. 164 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:29.559 They they they anticipated that They're what they're doing is 165 00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:34.879 they're holding Moscow back and they're making them pay for 166 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:38.879 every single inch. I mean, they're the Russians are going 167 00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:42.720 to cross the one million man casualty mark. Probably in 168 00:11:42.759 --> 00:11:46.039 the next month or two. Wow, they will have lost 169 00:11:46.120 --> 00:11:50.600 a million men in this war. Because Ukraine's defense is 170 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:59.320 so just it's yeah, it's yeah, and it's and it's 171 00:11:59.639 --> 00:12:03.679 it's it's a mix between the the the groundworks, the 172 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:08.000 battle works, the engineering that was done, that has been done, 173 00:12:08.039 --> 00:12:12.639 and then you include also going into urban centers, and 174 00:12:12.799 --> 00:12:16.320 also the the resistance and the will power in the 175 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:19.240 training and the ferocity of the Ukrainian soldiers. 176 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:24.080 The mindset lives, yes, and the mindset you know here 177 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:27.440 Phil there be a few reports and it leads to 178 00:12:27.639 --> 00:12:31.240 a question. You know, Trump has made these incredibly inflammatory statements, 179 00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:35.639 calling Zelensky the dictator, which is bs people know that 180 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:41.240 yet that's here. They talked about the effect of morale, 181 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:46.080 that fighting spirit that it can have, especially with a 182 00:12:46.120 --> 00:12:48.600 fighting force that's been added for so long. It's been 183 00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:52.559 three hard years. Now what kind of effect do statements 184 00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:59.080 like that have on the people in Kieva and Ukraine? 185 00:12:57.679 --> 00:13:02.159 Does it? Does it give them? Yeah? Some of the soldiers, 186 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:04.159 some of the soldiers in the Ukrainian Armed Forces have 187 00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:08.799 been out there for ten years, you know, so it's 188 00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:11.759 an existential threat. As I said, it's an existential threat 189 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:16.519 in c them. Russia wants to destroy Ukraine as an idea, 190 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:20.000 as an identity, and so it's and they know their 191 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:24.759 enemy better than anybody, and they know what Moscow's intent is. 192 00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:30.159 What is an imperial war trying to regain their most 193 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:39.240 important foundational colony, and this is colonization. It is the 194 00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:43.360 whole idea that Moscow has is to deny that there 195 00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:46.919 is such a thing as Ukraine. So they of course 196 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:50.080 they're going to fight because it's everything, and it's not 197 00:13:50.279 --> 00:13:54.559 just their loved ones at home, it's countless generations stretching 198 00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:58.360 off into the future, and they know it. So I 199 00:13:58.519 --> 00:14:02.320 was never I was not surprised. Apparently the Kremlin was surprised, 200 00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:04.200 but I was never surprised that they would put up 201 00:14:04.279 --> 00:14:07.080 a defense like this, because you know, they don't want 202 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:10.159 to live like Russia. Russia has a very different culture, 203 00:14:10.200 --> 00:14:15.000 even though they like to pretend they don't. Ukrainians are 204 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:18.840 pretty dead set that they are different, a different people. 205 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:25.840 So when well, you know, the thing is, when Donald 206 00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:37.440 Trump says these things, it's offensive, it's it's depressing. Ukrainians 207 00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:42.720 are sad to see what they thought to genuinely be 208 00:14:42.919 --> 00:14:48.720 the beacon on the hell that they would be that, 209 00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:53.759 you know, it's America that they aspired to be part of, 210 00:14:53.799 --> 00:14:56.440 and they saw it as a partnership. And then to 211 00:14:56.480 --> 00:15:01.840 see the betrayal and to see the President of the 212 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:07.080 United States parrotying almost word for word Kremlin talking points 213 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:14.080 in Vladimir Putin's speeches, you know, they're they're very grateful 214 00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:16.159 for the aid that has already been given and they'll 215 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:20.159 never they're not going to forget that anytime soon. But 216 00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:25.279 this is a massive betrayal and they know it. And 217 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:31.519 the if there is an upside, it's a curious thing 218 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:34.240 about Ukrainians. And I don't think it's just Ukrainians. I 219 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:38.279 think I think there's there's something in Slavic identity. I mean, 220 00:15:38.279 --> 00:15:41.039 you take the take the Serbs and there, and they 221 00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:44.399 still revere a battle that they lost badly to the 222 00:15:44.440 --> 00:15:48.360 Turks back in like the fifteenth century, and they celebrate it. 223 00:15:48.519 --> 00:15:53.200 There's there's something about, you know, like not even if 224 00:15:53.200 --> 00:15:58.200 we are defeated, if we go down swinging, then we 225 00:15:58.279 --> 00:16:03.000 have honor and it's something that informs us in our 226 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:05.320 historical identity and our cultural identity. 227 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:08.720 They're not Americans to forgive me and I try to 228 00:16:08.759 --> 00:16:12.399 be trade or whatever, but right now with what we're 229 00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:15.600 talking about, that's like wow, it's. 230 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:19.960 Yeah, I mean it should be. It's I mean, maybe 231 00:16:19.960 --> 00:16:22.080 it's something that we need to be an America, need 232 00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:24.519 to be reminded of. And maybe it's the Ukrainians who 233 00:16:24.519 --> 00:16:28.919 will do it. I mean we could. We should all 234 00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:33.919 be inspired by the resilience of uk And not only that, 235 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:37.559 but why they're fighting. They're fighting for the same values 236 00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:41.080 that our founding fathers fought against King George. It's just 237 00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:46.200 unfortunately their imperial master is right next door, as opposed 238 00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:49.559 to an ocean away, but they're still fighting to the ideals. 239 00:16:49.639 --> 00:16:54.080 And what upset what I think more than insulting Zelenski, 240 00:16:54.159 --> 00:16:54.519 there was. 241 00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:58.559 Also this this thing of the of the no elections 242 00:16:58.840 --> 00:17:05.279 uh uh narrative that Donald Trump put forward, disparaging Ukraine 243 00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:09.000 as not being a democracy and nothing could be further 244 00:17:09.039 --> 00:17:09.799 from the truce. 245 00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:13.319 And that they were insulted on behalf of their president. 246 00:17:13.640 --> 00:17:16.720 They were proud that their president stood up not only 247 00:17:16.759 --> 00:17:21.240 against Vladimir Putin but now is standing up to Donald Trump. 248 00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:26.319 That gives them a certain amount of pride. The anger, 249 00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:30.000 the resentment I think comes from this accusation that they're 250 00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:34.000 not a democracy. It's an insult to every single Ukrainian 251 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:36.680 the we're living under martial law here. We were living 252 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:39.759 under martial law because we're at war, because we were 253 00:17:39.799 --> 00:17:45.200 in Vain, and you don't under the Ukraine. And it 254 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:49.680 also just shows up a blatant disregard to find out 255 00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:52.079 the facts of what it is you're talking about. It 256 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:57.319 is illegal under the Ukrainian constitution to hold an election 257 00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:02.720 in periods of martial law. Law was voted on by 258 00:18:02.839 --> 00:18:07.839 the parliament legally, it was all done above board. They 259 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:11.920 gathered to I have an episode with a member of 260 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:16.319 the parliament who was there on the day when they voted, 261 00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:21.640 and it's an incredibly moving story of them desperately trying 262 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:26.559 to get a quorum together so that their vote would 263 00:18:26.599 --> 00:18:31.119 be valid. All the while the bombs were falling on 264 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:34.240 the city of Kiev, and nobody knew whether or not 265 00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:37.720 tanks would be rolling down the main street here headed 266 00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:41.039 to the Parliament building. Obviously that would be a place 267 00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:44.599 that they'd want to secure. So she tells the story 268 00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:46.839 of trying to get enough people in there to get 269 00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:50.200 a quorum. They were able to do it, but the 270 00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:53.559 guards at the building said we'll give you ten minutes 271 00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:55.920 because we don't know if this building has been targeted 272 00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:58.799 or not, and at any moment we could get a 273 00:18:58.839 --> 00:19:04.319 missile to you know here, And she tells the story 274 00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:08.960 and it is incredibly emotional that they are that they first, 275 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:12.519 first of all, they put forward the plan of martial law. 276 00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:16.079 Then they say to one another, during this period of 277 00:19:16.119 --> 00:19:19.680 martial law, we're not going to infight. And then they 278 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:22.640 vote on the law. They vote on the installation of 279 00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:25.480 martial law, and as they are doing it, they are 280 00:19:25.559 --> 00:19:31.680 singing the Ukrainian anthem and they're weakened power and it's 281 00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:35.640 it's you know, they did it diploma. They did it democratically. 282 00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:39.640 That was a legal vote taken by the parliament to 283 00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:44.240 install martial law. And again under the constitution, you can't 284 00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:47.359 hold it's illegal. Now they could gather and they could 285 00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:50.799 amend the law if they wanted to. They don't want to. 286 00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:54.799 They've got more important things to be doing. So the 287 00:19:55.640 --> 00:19:58.319 statement that Donald Trump came out with just this week 288 00:19:58.359 --> 00:20:00.960 about how it's not they were within the last week 289 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:06.039 that it's not a democracy, that Zelenski is a legitimate 290 00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:09.880 because he hasn't been voted in that I think offended 291 00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:14.440 them greater than the insults to Zelenski. Looks, lots of 292 00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:19.000 people understand that Donald Trump hates Zelensky, that there's a 293 00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:22.160 he's a that Donald Trump is a pretty petty guy 294 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:26.279 and he plays favorites and he doesn't like Zolensky, and 295 00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:28.400 they're not happy about it. But the kind of as 296 00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:30.440 I say, I think pride in the fact that Telenski's 297 00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:34.319 standing up to both Putin and Trump. But again that 298 00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:38.039 that the narrative that there this place isn't the democracy 299 00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:40.359 is pretty offensive. No. 300 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:44.200 I talked and actually, as we were taping today, was 301 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:46.240 watching a little CNN in the background, and it was 302 00:20:46.279 --> 00:20:49.440 an update, and you mentioned the whole thing about Ukraine's 303 00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:53.440 mineral wealth. Let me as you get into it and 304 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:56.000 let me play the devil's advocate, if you will, at 305 00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:59.720 the same time by saying, first of all, this the 306 00:20:59.799 --> 00:21:03.119 d is that the US under Trump will continue to 307 00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:10.079 support if Ukraine's turns over, if you will sells the 308 00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:16.519 mineral rights for their vast and very lucrative mineral deposits. Okay, 309 00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:20.960 here again playing the devil's advocate, Donald Trump says, well, 310 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:25.480 we've spent millions and billions of dollars in Ukraine. What's 311 00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:29.039 wrong with recouping some of that through a quote unquote 312 00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:33.480 business transaction. Your thoughts Ukraine's thoughts on that. I have 313 00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:37.720 my own afterwards, but let's get yours first, please, they're 314 00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:39.880 more important than mine. 315 00:21:40.279 --> 00:21:43.599 Well, I think there's a depending on what the finer 316 00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:46.359 details of the agreement are. I think actually it'll be 317 00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:49.319 welcomed here because everybody's exhausted and they just want the 318 00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:52.880 word to end. It's also worth noting that this wasn't 319 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:56.519 Trump's idea. This was a Lindsay's ideas. Lency's floated this 320 00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:01.519 idea before Trump. But what happened subsequently is that Trump 321 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:06.240 then came back with a deal that was I mean, 322 00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:09.200 it was outrageous. It was, you know, we get all 323 00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:15.039 of your minerals in perpetuity sort of thing, and we 324 00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:19.519 also get this, and we also get that. And you know, 325 00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:22.640 Zelensi said, well, no, that's I was proposing making a 326 00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:25.599 deal so that you would you would invest, and that 327 00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:28.240 would strengthen our alliance. That would strengthen it, and of 328 00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:31.440 course we would give you favorable status and you would 329 00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:36.200 get to you would get you know, a very favorable 330 00:22:36.279 --> 00:22:38.680 deal when it comes to extraction, and of course if 331 00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:40.559 you wanted to work it out that that was the 332 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:46.279 exchange for continued military support or financial support, then we 333 00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:49.079 can discuss all these things. Trump comes back with this 334 00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:51.960 thing that is just like we basically get your country, 335 00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:56.319 and the one thing that Trump and I and further 336 00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:59.680 actually than just Trump, but DC as a whole, and 337 00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:03.119 so Brussels, I would argue as well, they need to 338 00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:06.160 understand something about this country that I really don't think 339 00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:09.680 they do, and that is that in twenty fourteen, when 340 00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:13.480 they had the mind on uprising here in the Capitol, 341 00:23:13.880 --> 00:23:17.960 the so called Revolution of dignity, something I've been coming 342 00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:19.880 here for twenty five years, so I was coming here 343 00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:24.599 before the mind on something fundamentally changed in the character 344 00:23:24.839 --> 00:23:29.000 of the nation, the Ukrainian nation, and that is they said, 345 00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:32.559 We're not going to be a colony anymore. We are 346 00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:36.880 done with being colonized. We're going to blaze our own path, 347 00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:41.759 we have our own identity. For centuries this country has 348 00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:44.799 been used as a pawn in a chess game by 349 00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:50.000 larger power players, and we're not doing that anymore. We're 350 00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:52.559 happy to have alliances, we're happy to have friends, but 351 00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:55.119 We're not just going to swap Moscow for DC or 352 00:23:55.160 --> 00:23:58.960 Brussels or London or whatever. And you've seen them do 353 00:23:59.079 --> 00:24:02.480 this repeatedly that we've seen them do this where they 354 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:07.440 take on board, you know, pressures or you know, kind 355 00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:10.839 of instructions or what have you from the West, and 356 00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:12.920 they say, well, we'll take that on board, but we're 357 00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:15.240 the ones who are going to make the decision, and 358 00:24:15.319 --> 00:24:17.880 so we better you know, Dunal jump better recognize that 359 00:24:17.960 --> 00:24:20.960 past and actually the rest of you know, the rest 360 00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:23.160 of the Western world in DC, the diplomatic core and 361 00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:27.400 d C Apprussels I better recognized that as well. 362 00:24:29.079 --> 00:24:32.599 But they're there if I might fail to jump in 363 00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:34.279 because I think it's a good point and I had 364 00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:37.640 it in one of my questions. And it's relative to 365 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:40.799 what JDVA Vice President JD Vance when he was in 366 00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:43.680 Europe and in Germany and made that incredible speech which 367 00:24:43.720 --> 00:24:46.359 made it very clear that the United States was not 368 00:24:46.440 --> 00:24:49.680 going to play much of a role, if any, so 369 00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:52.160 that Europe would have to be able to pick up 370 00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:54.480 the slack. Are they willing to do that? 371 00:24:54.759 --> 00:24:55.480 Can they do that? 372 00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:58.279 Should they do that? Your your thoughts? I think it's 373 00:24:58.359 --> 00:25:00.480 relative to the conversation where I have right. 374 00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:03.720 Now, Yeah, I think they can. They're going to have 375 00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:06.440 to step it up real fast. I saw that the 376 00:25:06.519 --> 00:25:11.599 Prime Minister of Denmark had a really moving speech here 377 00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:15.640 at a I think they were twelve or thirteen heads 378 00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:19.720 of state came here to mark the three year anniversary, 379 00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:23.359 and the Prime Minister of Denmark made this very impassioned 380 00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:26.480 speech in which she said, we can do this, but 381 00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:29.480 we have to start now today, not in a month, 382 00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:32.359 not in two months. We need to start switching to 383 00:25:32.440 --> 00:25:36.839 a war economy because Ukraine is the shield that is 384 00:25:36.920 --> 00:25:41.599 defending liberal democracy in Western Europe. And it's one hundred 385 00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:46.160 percent true. The Russians will not stop with Ukraine. That 386 00:25:47.319 --> 00:25:52.400 is I'm sure of that. And I don't mean to 387 00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:55.160 say that they're going to have tanks rolling down the 388 00:25:55.240 --> 00:25:59.880 Charles Lys or you know whatever, you know, planes fly 389 00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:04.039 dropping bombs on London. But what they will do is 390 00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:07.200 they will have undue influence because that threat will then 391 00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:10.240 be there, and the threat will be there without the 392 00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:14.960 aid and assistance of the United States. It's a completely 393 00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:19.400 new geopolitical landscape and that's down to Donald Trump and 394 00:26:19.480 --> 00:26:24.880 Vladimir Putin, and it's disturbing because it's almost as it's 395 00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:28.240 exactly what they want. Jade Vance and Donald Trump and 396 00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:32.799 those in the maggot camp who are critical of our 397 00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:38.759 alliances with the European Union or with NATO are really 398 00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:44.359 not looking beyond the tip of their nose. They don't 399 00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:53.680 understand that actually, a prosperous, unified, safe Europe is an 400 00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:58.400 extremely good ally and an extremely good trading partner for US. 401 00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:02.599