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Terms and conditions apply See website for. 25 00:01:01.799 --> 00:01:02.039 Look. 26 00:01:12.439 --> 00:01:15.879 You are now listening to True Murder, The most Shocking 27 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:19.000 Killers in True Crime History and the authors that have 28 00:01:19.079 --> 00:01:26.359 written about them Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every 29 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:30.079 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 30 00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:34.719 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 31 00:01:35.079 --> 00:01:37.560 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 32 00:01:47.319 --> 00:01:49.760 Good evening. This is your host Dan Zupanski for the 33 00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:52.560 program True Murder, The most shocking Killers in True crime 34 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:59.040 History and the authors that have written about them. On 35 00:01:59.079 --> 00:02:04.719 October twenty nine, nineteen ninety seven, hooker Andrea Slick Hendrix's beaten, 36 00:02:04.879 --> 00:02:08.919 naked body was discovered in a roadside ditch near Stuartsville, Indiana, 37 00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:12.280 with no leeds for police to follow. The case eventually 38 00:02:12.280 --> 00:02:15.560 went cold, but it wouldn't stay that way. In two 39 00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:19.400 thousand and three, sadistic sexual predator Joseph W. Brown claimed 40 00:02:19.400 --> 00:02:22.599 to have strangled Hendrix with his favorite murder weapon, a 41 00:02:22.639 --> 00:02:28.360 shoe lace from a woman's size eight shoe. Ginger Gasaway 42 00:02:28.439 --> 00:02:31.840 fifty three met Brown at a gambler's anonymous meeting. She 43 00:02:31.879 --> 00:02:33.719 didn't know that when she took up with him, she 44 00:02:33.800 --> 00:02:37.319 was gambling with her life. On August thirtieth, two thousand, 45 00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:40.919 Brown murdered Gasway and scattered her body parts across three 46 00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:44.280 Indiana counties. For this grisly crime, he would be sentenced 47 00:02:44.280 --> 00:02:47.120 to life in prison without parole, but it wouldn't be 48 00:02:47.159 --> 00:02:51.199 his first time behind bars. In nineteen seventy seven, Brown 49 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:53.520 had been sentenced to life in prison for kidnapping an 50 00:02:53.599 --> 00:02:57.039 arm robbery. In nineteen ninety five, he was released despite 51 00:02:57.080 --> 00:02:59.599 the fact that he'd beaten a fellow inmate nearly to death. 52 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:02.879 Brown later confessed that during the next five years, he 53 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:06.240 indulged in a Seventh State rampage of torture and murder. 54 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:11.039 His victims female hitchhikers and prostitutes. Now doing time in 55 00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:16.439 Walbash Valley Correctional Correction Center, Brown maintains that he'd murdered 56 00:03:16.479 --> 00:03:20.479 no less than thirteen other women. The book that we're 57 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:23.800 profiling this evening is Blood Trail, with my special guest, 58 00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:27.560 Rick Reid. Thank you very much for agreeing to this 59 00:03:27.639 --> 00:03:29.639 interview and welcome to True Murder. 60 00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:32.520 Rick Reid, thank you for having me. 61 00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:35.800 Thank you very much, and congratulations on this book. It 62 00:03:35.879 --> 00:03:40.159 was written a few years ago, but still an amazing 63 00:03:40.199 --> 00:03:44.879 story and a great book, great really great read. Now, 64 00:03:44.919 --> 00:03:47.919 first off, let's give our audience a little bit of 65 00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:51.520 the background. How you came to be such an integral 66 00:03:51.560 --> 00:03:54.599 part of this book. Like I had mentioned in our 67 00:03:54.639 --> 00:03:57.919 earlier conversations, there is seems to be a trend towards 68 00:03:57.919 --> 00:04:02.800 a lot of true crime authors partnering with homicide detectives 69 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:08.520 police officers to get the invaluable information that needed necessary 70 00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:11.919 to write the book even more effectively than they would 71 00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:16.600 normally write the book. So tell our audience who you are, 72 00:04:16.759 --> 00:04:21.680 what your background is, and before we start taking some 73 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:24.720 questions here asking some questions about the book specifically. 74 00:04:26.279 --> 00:04:31.680 Okay, I've or I was a police officer since nineteen eighty. 75 00:04:32.279 --> 00:04:35.639 I was on the Vanderberg County Sheriff's Department here in Evansville, 76 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:38.480 Indiana for six years, and then I went on to 77 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:41.759 Evansville City Police and was on there for twenty years 78 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:45.439 before I retired and went into teaching. It was during 79 00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:49.000 that time on the Evansville Police Department that this case 80 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:54.639 came up. So my background basically, I had six years 81 00:04:54.639 --> 00:04:58.600 on the county police as a deputy and went into 82 00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:02.720 law enforcement and immediately within just a couple of months, 83 00:05:02.839 --> 00:05:05.319 coming on the police department. I went in through the 84 00:05:05.560 --> 00:05:09.199 detective's office, so I was in detectives for about seventeen 85 00:05:09.319 --> 00:05:13.279 years and ended up with my last three years being 86 00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:17.399 in internal affairs. The most hated position on the police department. 87 00:05:18.439 --> 00:05:19.160 Why is that. 88 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:25.439 Internal affairs have to investigate their own So it's really 89 00:05:25.480 --> 00:05:27.480 a tough position to be put in where you have 90 00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:35.079 to investigate other police officers for suspected or complaints of wrongdoing. 91 00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:38.959 And the position that it puts you in basically is 92 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:43.160 on the outside of everything, where the other officers don't 93 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:45.800 like you. The chief of police doesn't really like you 94 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:49.399 because every time they have run across you, there's a problem. 95 00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:51.319 So it's kind of like being a black cloud. 96 00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:58.560 Okay, Now, this story when we're talking about Ginger Gasaway 97 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:02.680 and you start the book, we're talking about Ginger, but 98 00:06:03.879 --> 00:06:07.160 what was your position as in the police department at 99 00:06:07.199 --> 00:06:12.040 the time that you were investigating or the disappearance of 100 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:14.399 Ginger gas Away? But that's not originally what you started with, 101 00:06:14.439 --> 00:06:17.399 but the bad checks of Joe Brown. What year was 102 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:19.839 that and where was that and what was your position 103 00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:21.000 within the police department? 104 00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:22.199 Right? 105 00:06:22.319 --> 00:06:28.639 This basically all started for me around two thousand when 106 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:32.800 Joe Brown came to my attention as somebody that was 107 00:06:32.839 --> 00:06:35.839 writing a lot of bad checks, doing what we called 108 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:41.360 kiding with checks between banks that were no good And 109 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:44.399 at the time I had moved from violent crime section 110 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:48.399 to white collar crime. We called it the buncle fraud unit, 111 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:51.920 and I was working primarily with the banks and with 112 00:06:52.079 --> 00:06:56.399 that type of crime, paper crimes, So that's what I 113 00:06:56.480 --> 00:06:59.439 was doing. It seemed like for some reason in that position, though, 114 00:06:59.800 --> 00:07:02.399 I ended up working four or five other homicides while 115 00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:06.000 I was in the white collar crime unit. Also, the 116 00:07:06.279 --> 00:07:09.920 one thing kind of led to another. Money sometimes breeds violence, 117 00:07:10.920 --> 00:07:14.000 so in this case, I was looking at Joe Brown 118 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:18.199 for several months prior to this incident occurring, because he 119 00:07:18.639 --> 00:07:24.360 had opened several bank accounts and was kiting bad checks 120 00:07:24.439 --> 00:07:27.120 from bank to bank to bank and was in about 121 00:07:27.160 --> 00:07:31.079 fifty thousand dollars to the banks. At the time, we 122 00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:35.519 have such a large number of those type cases coming 123 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:39.040 in that every detective that worked in the white collar 124 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:42.000 unit might be carrying a caseload of eighty to one 125 00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:45.920 hundred cases at a time, so you couldn't really focus 126 00:07:45.959 --> 00:07:49.439 your attention on one person and go after them unless 127 00:07:49.480 --> 00:07:54.439 something merited that kind of attention. In his case, Labor 128 00:07:54.519 --> 00:07:57.560 day was coming up and he was hitting the bank's 129 00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:00.360 pretty heavy, and I had put an alert out to 130 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:03.439 all the banks asking that anybody that had any contact 131 00:08:03.439 --> 00:08:06.240 with Joe Brown to let me know because I was 132 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:08.920 going to go ahead and arrest him on several bad 133 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:13.439 check charges that I had. But the surprise was that 134 00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:15.120 when I got a call from one of the banks, 135 00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:18.560 it was an old national bank here in town. They 136 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:20.639 said he had been there, but he'd been there several 137 00:08:20.680 --> 00:08:24.720 hours earlier, and they hesitated to call me, But when 138 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:26.639 they did, they told me the check that he was 139 00:08:26.680 --> 00:08:29.959 trying to pass was a large check written on the 140 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:33.120 account of Ginger gas Away off of a fifth third bank. 141 00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:37.360 So it got me interested to try to find out 142 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:40.000 what he was doing with one of Ginger Gasaway's checks 143 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:43.559 that wasn't one that he had normally used. I didn't 144 00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:45.679 know he had any connection to her. I thought it 145 00:08:45.720 --> 00:08:50.000 was probably stolen, it was such a large amount. And 146 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:53.039 the whole case then began because I tried to find 147 00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:56.559 Ginger gas Away to confirm that she hadn't written him 148 00:08:56.600 --> 00:08:58.000 that check so I could arrest him. 149 00:08:59.080 --> 00:09:02.279 Now at the time time when you have an arrest 150 00:09:02.320 --> 00:09:05.080 warrant for Joe Brown. You're looking for Joe Brown? What 151 00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:08.679 was in your discovery? What did you discover was the 152 00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:09.960 background of Joe Brown. 153 00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:15.159 Okay, basically, what we found about him all came about 154 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:20.720 later after we knew that Ginger was missing and something 155 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:25.919 was horribly wrong in her situation. But we didn't really 156 00:09:25.960 --> 00:09:29.440 know at first that he and Ginger had any kind 157 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:32.639 of connection other than that check. But what I did 158 00:09:32.679 --> 00:09:36.600 find out I went to the bank that issued her checks, 159 00:09:36.759 --> 00:09:39.480 the Fifth Third Bank, and was able to talk to them, 160 00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:43.559 and they said that he had stolen checks from her 161 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:47.200 once before, and that she had opened an account for him, 162 00:09:47.759 --> 00:09:51.200 Joe Brown Masonry. He had his own little company, and 163 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:53.759 she had set him up. And the bank was able 164 00:09:53.799 --> 00:09:56.000 to tell me that she had actually cashed in her 165 00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:59.759 four oh one K from a job that she had 166 00:09:59.799 --> 00:10:03.679 had previously and took about fifty thousand dollars to open 167 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:07.279 an account for him, and that those were the bad checks. 168 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:08.960 That he was right and he had cleaned that account 169 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:12.200 out and was writing bad checks to other banks. So 170 00:10:12.399 --> 00:10:16.039 now I had the connection between Joe and Ginger. I 171 00:10:16.120 --> 00:10:19.399 knew that she had been supplying him with money that 172 00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:23.080 he had stolen from her in the past, and so 173 00:10:23.159 --> 00:10:24.759 I had a real good reason to go and look 174 00:10:24.840 --> 00:10:27.039 for her to get her to go ahead and file 175 00:10:27.159 --> 00:10:30.240 a formal charge against him for this check that he 176 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:34.080 tried to pass. We had him on film doing it. Unfortunately, 177 00:10:34.200 --> 00:10:36.919 when he saw the bank looking at him funny, he 178 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:39.960 grabbed the check and his ID card and fled the bank. 179 00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:43.759 So we didn't have the check itself, so we needed 180 00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:46.639 to find her and get information from her to be 181 00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:49.440 able to proceed the way it worked pretty much here 182 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:53.159 in Evansville, and I'm not sure about other agencies. If 183 00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:57.039 you have an old case that's say over two or 184 00:10:57.080 --> 00:10:59.000 three days old, and you want to make an arrest 185 00:10:59.039 --> 00:11:00.960 on it, you have to get a an arrest warrant 186 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:05.120 issued first. If you have something that's current within say 187 00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:09.080 thirty six to seventy two hours. If it's that current, 188 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:12.440 you can make an on side arrest, which is a 189 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:16.080 warrantless arrest. And that's what I was wanting to go for, 190 00:11:16.279 --> 00:11:18.000 was to just be able to arrest him and not 191 00:11:18.080 --> 00:11:22.120 have to go to the prosecutor's office and get papers 192 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:24.559 drawn up and go to a judge and get a 193 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:26.000 warrant to arrest him on some of. 194 00:11:25.919 --> 00:11:26.799 The old charges. 195 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:29.480 We thought we would be able to wrap that up 196 00:11:29.679 --> 00:11:31.440 very quickly, and it didn't turn out that way. 197 00:11:32.519 --> 00:11:34.919 Now, what I thought interesting too is some of the 198 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:40.120 talking about this specific law here, that this is a 199 00:11:40.159 --> 00:11:42.360 certain class of felony, and I'll get you to explain 200 00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:45.080 to our audience what the class of felony is. But 201 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:49.399 also that what I had asked is that kind of 202 00:11:49.960 --> 00:11:53.240 what criminal background did you were you already aware of 203 00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:56.919 or were you already aware of about Joe Brown? And 204 00:11:56.960 --> 00:11:59.879 then what were you aware of in terms of likely 205 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:05.000 would in terms of sentence that this man would receive 206 00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:10.279 if he were actually convicted of these frauds, these bad checks. 207 00:12:10.639 --> 00:12:14.320 Okay, what we had done when this all happened, it 208 00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:20.080 happened so fast. We left our office in contact basically 209 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:24.759 with everybody trying to locate Ginger, trying to locate Joe, 210 00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:27.840 and we really didn't know a whole lot about any 211 00:12:27.879 --> 00:12:31.080 other background on him other than that he was writing 212 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:33.919 bad checks. So at that time I hadn't done much 213 00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:37.200 of a background check on him as far as old 214 00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:40.200 charges or what we would call the Triple I. Its 215 00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:44.320 an interstate index that shows you felony charges that a 216 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:47.399 person has all over the United States. I hadn't gone 217 00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:50.360 to that link yet because I had so many cases 218 00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:53.480 that I was working. Joe was way down the line. 219 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:57.039 He was way down my list until the day that 220 00:12:57.120 --> 00:13:00.519 he showed up at Old National Bank, so I really 221 00:13:00.519 --> 00:13:02.879 didn't have much of a background on him other than 222 00:13:02.919 --> 00:13:05.679 that I knew if we didn't arrest him, he was 223 00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:08.519 going to continue to write bad checks to the banks, 224 00:13:08.519 --> 00:13:11.480 and then when we came back to work after Labor Day, 225 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:15.320 we'd have one hundred thousand dollars loss or more. So 226 00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:17.799 we decided to go after him on that. We didn't 227 00:13:17.799 --> 00:13:22.879 really find out about his criminal background until probably the 228 00:13:22.919 --> 00:13:26.720 next day, and that's when I started really delving into 229 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:29.279 his background to find out what kind of person he was. 230 00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:34.000 And the reason for that was because Ginger Gasaway was 231 00:13:34.039 --> 00:13:37.200 missing and we weren't able to find her, and the 232 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:41.759 circumstances around her not being present in her apartment or 233 00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:45.440 in town began to look suspicious, but it took a 234 00:13:45.480 --> 00:13:47.879 while for that to develop. It took a couple of 235 00:13:47.960 --> 00:13:51.440 days before that really developed because the things we learned 236 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:55.919 about her and about Joe, even the family thought that 237 00:13:55.960 --> 00:14:02.159 she might possibly be off with him gambling someplace, So 238 00:14:02.200 --> 00:14:04.399 the fact that he had tried to cash a bad 239 00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:07.559 check lost a little bit of its appeal if she 240 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:10.720 was maybe in this with him. So we didn't really 241 00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:13.600 know what we were dealing with at that point, but 242 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:17.240 after we couldn't locate her for a while, then it 243 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:22.039 started looking more suspicious. The only real troubling background we 244 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:24.200 had on him, but it didn't come to light right away, 245 00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:28.399 was that Joe had beaten her up at one other time, 246 00:14:29.159 --> 00:14:32.679 and he beat her very severely, and it was over 247 00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:37.960 him taking money from her, and she had decided press 248 00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:40.600 charges and then changed her mind, And it was more 249 00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:44.720 or less a domestic violence case at that point, where 250 00:14:44.759 --> 00:14:49.000 he was ordered to do not a community service, but 251 00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:53.480 go to domestic violence classes. Anger management, they called it, 252 00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:56.759 and Joe failed to do that. He didn't go to 253 00:14:56.799 --> 00:15:00.559 anger management. The warrant that was issued for him was 254 00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:03.960 very minor and all it said was, you know that 255 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:07.000 he had to appear before a judge to explain why 256 00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:10.720 he didn't go to anchor management class. So what would 257 00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:13.559 happened if we'd arrested him on that he would appear 258 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:15.759 in front of a judge and go, I'm sorry your honor, 259 00:15:15.799 --> 00:15:18.159 I'll go tomorrow, and they would have let him go, 260 00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:21.559 so that it really wasn't enough to hold him on. 261 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:22.159 I didn't think. 262 00:15:23.720 --> 00:15:28.080 Now, you were trying to find out the location of 263 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:30.919 Ginger Gasaway, so you can ask her what the details 264 00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:35.440 and circumstances were regarding this check. It looks like it 265 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:38.279 doesn't look good, but you don't know very much information. 266 00:15:38.679 --> 00:15:43.200 But in this process you find out gradually the character 267 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:46.440 of Ginger gas Away and a little bit of her background. 268 00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:50.720 Tell us about Ginger Gasaway what you found initially she 269 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:53.360 was fifty three years old. But tell us what you 270 00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:57.799 found out from friends, relatives, coworkers. What did you What 271 00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:02.279 was the picture that was being drawn about the character 272 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:04.000 of Ginger Gasaway. 273 00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:10.320 Yeah, what we found out during the investigation led us 274 00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:13.840 to believe that she was somebody that was fairly easily led. 275 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:20.159 She was lonely. She was in rather an unhappy marriage. 276 00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:25.200 Her and her husband had been having some issues, but 277 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:29.559 it was mostly family type issues where he had a 278 00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:32.720 little bit of a drinking problem, she had a gambling problem, 279 00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:35.799 and so they weren't getting along real well. And that 280 00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:39.480 was when Joe came into her life. She met him 281 00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:42.879 at a gambler's anonymous meeting, and that was really one 282 00:16:42.919 --> 00:16:46.360 of the first things we found out about her. She 283 00:16:47.159 --> 00:16:50.039 felt sorry for him. He told her that he had 284 00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:53.480 a past, criminal past and that he was trying to 285 00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:56.399 overcome it and he was living in a shelter and 286 00:16:56.480 --> 00:17:01.399 he needed help. And he pretty much indicated us too, 287 00:17:01.480 --> 00:17:05.680 that he had charmed his way into her life, convinced 288 00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:07.680 her that he needed help and that she was the 289 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:10.079 one that could do it for him. He kind of 290 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:14.319 looked at her as a older mother type figure, but 291 00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:19.279 he was romantically inclined towards her also, and then he 292 00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:24.160 more or less took over her life. He started getting 293 00:17:24.200 --> 00:17:26.960 into her bank accounts, he moved in with her, and 294 00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:29.000 he moved in with her while she was still married 295 00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:31.359 to her husband. She had allowed him to come in 296 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:35.440 the house while her husband had just had open heart surgery, 297 00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:38.960 so Joe. We found out from a husband that Joe 298 00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:42.119 had been threatening the husband that if he didn't stay 299 00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:44.480 out of the way, he'd take care of him, and 300 00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:48.759 the husband said, I was in no physical condition to 301 00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:51.400 hardly even talk to the guy, much less get in 302 00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:55.119 a fight with him. So the husband ended up having 303 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:57.680 to go into town and get a restraining order to 304 00:17:57.680 --> 00:17:58.559 have Joe moved. 305 00:17:59.160 --> 00:17:59.319 Well. 306 00:17:59.319 --> 00:18:03.160 When Joe was ordered out by the Sheriff's department and 307 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:07.039 told to move, then Ginger told her husband, well, if 308 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:09.599 you're making him leave, I'm going with him. So she 309 00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:12.920 left with Joe and file for divorce from her husband, 310 00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:15.640 and her and Joe moved in together. It was kind 311 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:18.039 of poor judgments all around. She felt like she had 312 00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:22.799 a kinship with him because they both had gambling problems 313 00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:27.359 and she was unhappy, and Joe made her happy, at 314 00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:29.200 least for a while. He was the kind of person 315 00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:34.680 typical of a serial killer, where he can maintain a relationship. 316 00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:37.720 He can be very charming like Ted Bundy or someone 317 00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:41.680 be very charming for short periods of time, but eventually 318 00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:45.759 that face kind of fades away and they become who 319 00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:50.559 they really are. They act out. They're very dominating, controlling, violent, 320 00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:54.640 and he showed her that side one time too often. 321 00:18:56.079 --> 00:19:00.480 She continued, though, to work and pay the bills, continued 322 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:03.319 to gamble and spend her money and steal from her 323 00:19:04.599 --> 00:19:07.079 She was At one time we knew she was holding 324 00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:12.440 two jobs, one at TJ Max here in Evansville as 325 00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:15.880 a forklift operator, and then her second job was working 326 00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:20.240 out at the regional airport, and so she was bringing 327 00:19:20.279 --> 00:19:23.279 in two paychecks and working a lot, and Joe was 328 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:27.880 spending all of his time gambling. I really felt sorry 329 00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:32.680 for her that she was unable to detach him. She 330 00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:35.279 tried several times to throw him out and would get 331 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:38.000 him out of the house, maybe even have to call 332 00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:41.680 the police, and he would leave, but he would stalk 333 00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:46.400 and harass and write letters and promise, cry all these 334 00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:49.680 type things to get his way insinuate back into her 335 00:19:49.720 --> 00:19:54.599 life again. And with the domestic violence type situation, eventually 336 00:19:54.759 --> 00:19:57.279 it's easier to give in than it is to continue 337 00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:00.200 fighting them. And that's what she did. She would just 338 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:03.000 give in and let him come back, and then eventually 339 00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:05.000 it would be so bad she would have to kick 340 00:20:05.079 --> 00:20:05.640 him out again. 341 00:20:07.720 --> 00:20:12.079 Now let's go back for our audience to the background 342 00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:18.000 the early life of Joe Brown, his troubled childhood. Tell 343 00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:21.839 us how and where Joe Brown grew up and under 344 00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:26.519 what conditions. What type of person was Joe Brown as 345 00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:29.119 a child and a young young adult. 346 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:36.880 Okay, Joe, in some ways, if you looked at his childhood, 347 00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:39.839 it wasn't much different than anyone else. He had two brothers. 348 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:44.559 He had two sisters. His dad was a bricklayer. Mother 349 00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:49.440 was just a housewife that sometimes took in sewing, did 350 00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:53.400 things like that. We were told that the mother had 351 00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:58.480 a drinking problem and prescription medication problem, and that the 352 00:20:58.519 --> 00:21:02.559 father had an extremely violent temper, and some of the 353 00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:09.079 stories that we heard from witnesses and family members. We're 354 00:21:09.160 --> 00:21:09.720 not very. 355 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:14.480 Step into the world of power, loyalty and luck. I'm 356 00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:17.519 gonna make him an offer he can't refuse. With family 357 00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:21.960 canoli's and spins mean everything. Now you want to get 358 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:26.119 mixed up in the family business. Introducing the Godfather at 359 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:29.759 Champa Casino dot com. 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That's Chumbuck Casino dot com 378 00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:12.559 and lived at Chamberlain for necessary detail where everybody lost 379 00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:13.680 in the terms conditions eighteen pluss. 380 00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:17.000 We're pleasant about the way Joe was raised, but he 381 00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:19.640 wasn't the only one in that family, and always had 382 00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:22.319 to look at that aspect of it that he wasn't 383 00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:26.720 the only one that was being treated bad an angry 384 00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:30.359 father or a drunken mother. But he turned out the 385 00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:33.680 way he did, and that's often the case in serial killers. 386 00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:36.079 There could be two brothers and one of them be 387 00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:41.319 a serial killer, not both. So he was raised pretty rough. 388 00:22:41.559 --> 00:22:45.119 When he was eight or nine years old, he was 389 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:48.759 being molested by a neighbor boy that was I think 390 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:51.319 around age twelve that was coming to the house, and 391 00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:55.039 Joe had gone to his mother and complained and told 392 00:22:55.079 --> 00:22:56.880 her that this guy was coming to the house doing 393 00:22:56.920 --> 00:23:00.000 things to him, and instead of his mother protecting him, 394 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:03.359 and this is the story from Joe, instead of the 395 00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:07.759 mother protecting him, she told his father about what was 396 00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:14.400 going on, and his father just erupted basically accused him 397 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:19.680 of being homosexual and beating for that. So Joe said 398 00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:21.680 he never forgave his mother for that, that he went 399 00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:23.559 to her for help and instead he got a beating 400 00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:28.880 and the abuse continued. Then, you know, the neighbor continued 401 00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:31.599