Speaker 1: Welcome to the KTPF Reload Show. In case you're wondering
what the Reload Show is about if you haven't heard
previous shows, these are the interviews that were conducted by
a good friends of mine, Steven Sue Tagget in the
days of the KTPF radio show. They're on radio show
around for just over four years, broadcasting every week for
over the three hours. I joined them in the last
eighteen months of the show's run, but eventually the guys
felt they've just about had enough. It was a monumental
effort to keep broadcasting every week for three hours. It
was a wonderful show, but unfortunately they are longer involved
and the shows have just sort of sat in the archives.
So I thought it would be nice to bring them
back to life and bringing you the interviews that the
guy has conducted over those four years and include some
of the most interesting people within the world of the
paranormal and some not so well but nevertheless still very interesting.
We even have one or two rather unusual shows, including
a live salance and other things along those lines. Anyway,
hopefully you enjoy tonight's show, and this is the KTPF
for Reload Show.
Speaker 2: Enjoy This program deals with themes of an adult nature
and is intended for a mature audience.
Speaker 3: You're in the right place, online, on the web and
on air all over the world talk radio.
Speaker 1: You hear us, We hear you.
Speaker 4: Gooda and ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to another edition
of the KTPF Community Talk Show, Live from Manchester.
Speaker 1: In.
Speaker 4: My name is Suzanne Steve in Essex, and we are
here keeping the paranormal friendly each and every Sunday. So
put up a chair and relax with us while we
bring you a show full of the supernatural, the paranormal
and others nge phenomena. Right, so, what's on tonight's show?
Andrew Collins. Collins is a renowned research researcher and author.
As a teenager, he became a UFO investigator and in
nineteen seventy seven he investigated the first ever missing time
abduction case reboarded in the UK, and that investigation changed
his life. He became a journalist with the magazine Strange
Phenomena and openly sought to sort the help of psychics
in an attempt to better understand the relationship between UFOs,
prehistoric sites, Earth energies and the human mind. He wrote
The Black Alchemist in nineteen eighty eight.
Speaker 5: Did you say, Andy, Oh, yeah, right, Okay. I don't
know why, but it wasn't there, which is a real
encounter of terrifying true events. The Nightmare began and Collins
and a friend, Bernard G visited a secluded churchyard on
the Sussex Downs of southern East England as part of
a psychic quest. They are looking for an ancient Egyptian treasure,
a golden staff known as the Stave of Nizzar, brought
to England at the time of the Crusades. Yet instead
of finding a long lost Egyptian relic, they uncover a
stone spearhead inscribed with magical symbols. Through further investigation, they
discover it has been concealed as part of a dark
occult ritual by a character they dub the Black Alchemist.
As a science and history writer, he has authored a
variety of books that challenge the way we perceive the past,
including his latest book gobecle Tepe, Genesis of the Gods,
The Temple of the World, and The Discovery of Eden,
which we will talk also talk about later on tonight.
Speaker 4: Hello, Hello, you're right there. Andrew. Can I call you
Andrew so I don't get you mixed up with Andy? Yes,
of course, call me what you like, Okay, late for dinner?
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: First of all, I just want to say thank you
for giving us your time. Okay. Now, first of all,
I need to find out a little bit about yourself.
How did you first become involved in the paranormal.
Speaker 6: Well, I didn't sort of get involved. I mean I
was interested in it right from a young age. I mean,
I you know, I thought all the kids in the
street were interested in the paranormal, interested in ghosts, in UFOs,
in into dreams, astro projection, dream interpretation. And I was
getting books out by people like Sigmund Freud and others
at the age of about ten or eleven, trying to understand,
you know, the mechanics of the universe basically, and you know,
who we were, where we came from, how we connect
with everything. And I thought everybody else was interested in
this as well. And it wasn't until I got to
high school really that I realized that I was on
my own, and that, you know, I had one or
two close mates that shared these interests, but otherwise, you
know that I was you know, out there and doing
my own thing, and that was that. And then for
years the whole thing was put to one side as
I sort of went through adolescents. And it wasn't really
until I got to work at the age of sixteen
that I started to read dozens of pulp paperbacks, mostly
on UFOs and ancient astronauts, and this greatly changed into
the paranormal and witchcraft and the occol and I started
to investigate the subject alongside my work with UFO cases,
which at first I thought was a clear cut case of,
you know, of alien spacecraft coming down here from another
planet and interacting with us and then going.
Speaker 3: Back to wherever they came from.
Speaker 6: But I realized eventually that this wasn't the case at all,
and that most of the absolute close encounters, you know,
the genuine sightings or experiences, were generally done by people
who had psychic abilities and also seemed to have various
physiological and psychological traits in common with each other. And
also I began to realize that people that experienced UFOs
also had a high incidence of poltergeist cases in connection
with them. And at the same time I met for
the first time a colleague and friend by the name
of Graham Phillips who was working on the other side.
He was working mostly with the Society Psychical Research, looking
into poltergeist cases, and he had become baffled by the
fact that many witnesses of poltergeist also would see balls
of light, both inside their homes and outside in the
environment around them, and he wondered what the possible link
could be between the two. So we pulled our resources
together and came up with something called the psygenic theory.
And this was the fact that there are certain people
that are prone to all types of paranormal phenomena, including
close encounters with UFOs and the witnesses of balls of light,
and that somehow this is to do with their genetic background,
their different traits that they share in common with each other,
possibly even connected with ancestry, you know, where their roots
might be. And this was something we developed and we
published originally in a magazine called Strange Phenomena, and this
was right at the end of the nineteen seventies. And
what this did was to put out the idea that
we wanted to work with psychics and that if they
had strange dreams or visions, that they could log them
with us, particularly if they were prophetic and related to
future events, and we would say, yes, this person you
know had this dream and they logged it with us,
and this built this allowed us to build up this
this link with people that you know that experienced this
type of phenomena. But what gradually happened is that we
started to see patterns forming that people would start often
having the same type of a vision at the same time,
you know, I mean, possibly in different parts of the country.
And on one particular occasion, people started to say that
we at this magazine strange phenomena had some kind of
destiny and that you know, it wasn't by chance that
we were doing this magazine. And then some people close
to us, psychic people close to us connected with the magazine,
started seeing this small green jewel, which we started referring
to us as the green Stone, and felt that this
was a historical object connected with, amongst other people, the
Knights Templar and the gunpowder plotters and the Rosicrucians of
the early seventeenth century, and that somehow it had been
concealed in the landscape around Worcestershire. I mean, I won't
going to how we work that out. But so we
started doing some historical research into the homes of the
gunpowder plotters looking for clues, and we felt we'd found
a possible location called the Knight's Poll, which is very
near Woocester, And we were just about to leave there
and one of the psychics that was coming up with
this information about the Green Stone, guy by the name
of Alan Beard, wrang us up and said, you know,
weren't spoke to him for a few days, and we said.
He said, I think you found the right place, but
you're going to find a sword first, and the sword
will lead you to this stone. So this was news
to us. I mean, some of the clues seemed to
relate to King Arthur and the knights at around table.
But anyway, we went out to this place and eventually
we started to dismantle part of a dry stone walling
that was acting as the foundations of a footbridge, and
we came across this this this was right on the
edge of the water, and you know, all we could
do was just take these blocks of stone and just
drop them into the water. As we were dismantling virtually
this bridge, and we came across this cavity inside which
was this short sword that was covered in this type
of resin, and we got it back to our home,
which at that time was in Wolverhampton, and found that
there was an inscription on the blade that read mio
Nia for Mary e O n I A force forelled
f O r Mary's spelled m A r y e,
which was, you know, very Elizabethan in style, and we
didn't really understand that. We thought that the Mary possibly
could relate to Mary, Queen of Scott's who'd been bit
of a rallying point for the gunpowder plotters before her
death in fifteen eighty seven. But anyway, catalog story as shult,
we continued the quest and eventually found this greenstone inside
this brass casket which was of seventeenth century origin, not
far away from where we found the sword, and yeah,
this really kickstarted everything, both for me and for Graham Phillips.
We both went on to become historical writers and much
of the work that we do is actually inspired by
a lot of what happened as far back as nineteen
seventy nine, and even today. All of my books really
are inspired by some kind of dream or vision which
either myself or one of my colleagues may have experienced,
and that drives me to look for new answers, to
review our understanding of the past, you know, our origins basically,
and that's, you know, how I came to be a
writer and an author. And obviously since then I've done
about fifteen books. So that's how it all started.
Speaker 4: Well, we've got plenty of questions for you, Andrew, so
I hope you're okay for time, And basically I just
want to ask you've written books on psychic questions. For
those of that don't know about psychic questions, can you
tell us what it actually is and how you first
discovered the idea?
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, to be honest, it really followed on
from the story that I've just given you, the finding
of the Sword and the Stone, because for a couple
of years we did nothing with the story at all,
taking us into the early nineteen eighties, and then finally
I did a booklet called The Sword and the Stone,
you know, obviously after the objects that were found, and
this came out I think in nineteen eighty two or three,
and then Grab Phillips writing with another guy called Martin Keatman,
Rokees their version of the story, which was called Greenstone.
And there was obviously an awful lot of debate within
the subject of the paranormal about these stories that we
were writing about. And I think that my defense of
this subject and the idea that you could use the
mind to find hidden artifacts, and that this wasn't something
that we've made up on the spur of the moment.
That this has been going on for hundreds of years
in Europe, but also it was found within classical times,
you know, sort of heroes having visions of the gods
and going to find their armor or their swords, and
even within Tibetan Buddhism, the idea that certain types of
monks known as turtans treasure finders, would have these visions
of artifacts, and they would put together a train of
you know, sherpas and animals and things, and they would
go on for hundreds of miles to a certain spot
and know that they would either be able to dig
and find an artifact, which they called it a turma,
which is basically a hidden treasure, or they could actually
pull them out of thin air, you know, out of fire,
out of water, or even you know, yank the hand
it into the air and just pull artifacts out of nowhere,
and they genuinely believe that they could do this. And
there are many many testimonies, you know, that have come
out of Tibet, both anciently and more modern, which seemed
to suggest that.
Speaker 3: That this so called Urma tradition is real.
Speaker 6: And there are so many parallels between that and what
we call psychic questing. The psychic questing is essentially using
psychic information towards some kind of goal, whether that be
the finding of a hidden artifact, the solving of some
kind of historical enigma, or the uncovering perhaps of a
landscape mystery perhaps you know, some sort of landscape geometry,
or finding of a previously unknown you know, stone circle
or ancient site. And the way that I use it today,
which is I work with my psychic friends to investigate
the mysteries of the past. You know, they will have visions,
dreams that may go back as far as what they
can tell thirty thousand years, possibly forty thousand years, and
see activities that were going on in different parts of
the world that help us to better understand some of
the archaeological evidence. Now, of course, none of this can
be actually used as evidence of what the ancients.
Speaker 3: Were up to.
Speaker 6: But for me, it gives me an idea of which
direction my investigations should go. What areas of the world
I should be looking at, what time periods, what links
between different cultures. And although you won't see a lot
of that in my books, they're all based on sound
historical research, readers, you know, need to be aware that
somewhere in the background was some dream of vision that
helped push me in that direction in the first place.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, Now, on the subject of one of your books,
The Black Alchemist, can you briefly outline the story for us?
Speaker 6: Well, this began in nineteen eighty five and I was
working with arguably one of the most talented psychics I've
ever had the privilege to know, and his name was Bernard.
He lived in Essex, and I met him, I think
in nineteen eighty three or eighty four originally, and we
were both working on the same village, which was Danbury
in Essex, a medieval place associated with the family of
the Saint Clair's or the Sinclair's, who were up to
their next mystical mischief, connected with Rendless Chateau connected with
Roslin Chapel in Scotland, and we were both investigating that
and one particular day he wrote to me and he said,
I had a very strange dream last night about Danbury
Church and about a funeral that had gone on there
in connection with one of the Sinclair Knights. And he
outlined this dream and it was so vivid with you,
complete with the hereldic devices of some of the figures
that were there, that it allowed me to piece together
exactly who was buried where in Danbury Church during the
thirteenth century. And we started working together on a number
of what we call psychic quests, and in nineteen eighty
five he started to pick up information about this Egyptian
treasure which he felt had been brought across to Britain
at the time of the Crusades, possibly via France. It
gone to somebody in France and from France it had
come across to Britain, and that it was a staff,
a ceremonial staff, possibly with a It was either gold
or gold covered, and it had a serpent or snake
curling around it with its head over the top. I
mean it looked like something you know that you might
find in Tuton Carmoun's too, and the feeling was that
it did date back to you know, maybe the age
of Teuton, Carmuhn or whatever. But it had been it
had been confiscated from a Muslim, you know, at the
time of the Fall of Jerusalem, which was about ten
ninety eight if I remember rightly, and you know, it
had been brought back, as you know, bounty booty, whatever
term it it is, to this country and was around somewhere,
and he started picking up information about some sites in
East Sussex, in particular the area around the long Man
of Wilmington, which is a very famous geoglyph on the
landscape there of a figure holding two vertical poles. And
we went down to the area and we were drawn
to this small, tiny, tiny church, a place called Lullington,
where we felt that we were going to get clues
relating to this object, which was being referred to as
the Stave of Nasea. Nazia was a caliph in Egypt
just before the time of the First Crusade, and it
would seem that the object had been in his possession,
hence its name, and so we were looking for clues
there and Bernard almost immediately we got there, said there's
something not right about this place. He said, I feel that,
in his words, black magic has gone on here. And
I thought, well, well, that's got nothing to do with
what we're here for. Just ignore it sort of thing.
Speaker 3: But he sat.
Speaker 6: Down, and as I explored trying to look for some clue,
he kept focusing on a clump of old foundations, just
a tiny block of stone in the middle of the churchyard,
and felt that drawn towards it, and started scraping around
in the soil at the base of it, and found
this spearhead made of stone. It was natural, but on
it were a large number of occult symbols which we
didn't recognize at that time, and finding this object made
him very ill. I mean, we went away from the
side of it. We stopped he was sick. He was sick,
and we you know, we stopped off at Wilmington Priory,
within sight of the long Man of Wilmington. And you know,
I felt that clearly our questifying the statement my ear
was over and that you know, we couldn't go on.
Speaker 3: So we went home.
Speaker 6: And what happened after this was that Bernard started to
pick up information about the character the person that had
left this stone spearhead in the churchyard at Luntington. He
saw his house, he saw some of the rituals that
he was doing. He saw that he was quite clearly
into alchemy, and not just any old alchemy, alchemy that
went back to the very foundations of alchemy in Greco
Roman times, probably fourth about third fourth century a d.
And that this guy was dangerous. He was not only
to himself, but that he was messing around with sights
and energies that could be dangerous not only for himself
but others. And we started to investigate some of these
sites and found evidence of activity. But the disturbing fact
was I seemed to be getting closer and closer towards
my own well now both both our own home county
of Essex, and they started taking place in Essex. And
what became clear is the person who we started to
dub the Black Alchemist, was looking for us. He knew
that somebody was interfering with his work and was now
looking for us, possibly to try and to stop ours,
but also perhaps that he saw us in some way
as playing some fatalistic role in his own practice of
trying to achieve some kind of warped immortality, and what
followed was a series of what I call cat' and
mouse confrontations, where this guy's trying to get to us,
and we're trying to put a stop to his activities,
particularly the activities around our own area of Midt to
southeast Essex. And what coincided with all of this was
the hurricane of nineteen eighty seven, and it seemed as
if the Black Alchemist was using this as some kind
of what we call distillation magic. In other words, he
was drawing the energies, the power from this terrible natural
disaster to you know, to utilize in his own warped
magical activities. So you know, it just got worse from there, really,
and everything that happened is outlined in a book that
I wrote following this, more to just to get the
story out into the public's I called The Black Alchemist,
which started off really as a diary report, but the
more I wrote it up, the more, you know, the
more stylized the book, and I then rewrote the beginning
of it again. But it's an absolute one percent accurate
account of the events that took place between nineteen eighty
five and nineteen eighty eight, which is where the book ends,
but to be honest, even then it didn't end. We
continued to follow up the activities of the Black Alchemists
for at least about three years afterwards, and eventually Bernard
just said, I've had enough. I don't care what this
person is doing. I do not want to follow up
this anymore because it's going to affect me, he said,
I don't. You know, Initially it was okay finding a
few artifacts, but you know, when it's quite clear that
the next thing that's happened is the guy is probably
going to turn up.
Speaker 3: On your front doorstep. And he had a wife and
two children. Sadly it's no longer with us.
Speaker 6: He died about five years ago, but he realized that,
you know, that we've gone too far and that you know, we,
you know, leave the matter alone.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 6: The feeling from other psychics is that the Black Alchemist
doesn't exist anymore, that he's dead, But the strong feeling
is that that somebody is continuing with his legacy, possibly
people in his family, you know, maybe the next generation,
and that myself and my colleague Richard Wold have been
down to Sussex within the last couple of years and
and material has come out suggesting that you know, things
are still going on, and that you know, the whole
thing could be triggered off again at any time. So
it's still something that's active, but it's something that I
wouldn't encourage anybody that thinks they want to go out
and try and investigate this to do. I really wouldn't.
It is quite dangerous. I mean, by all means read
the story in The Black Alchemist. Obviously you know it's
out there, it's available, you know, from all the normal sources.
Speaker 3: And you know it's a great story. But it is
a dangerous thing.
Speaker 6: And it didn't just mess up Bernard but also me
because at one particular point we received via this letter
that was actually left at the site, in this black
envelope with a whole lot of other weird bits and pieces,
wanted to a death to both myself and Bernard, giving
us just nine nights to live. And you can, as
you can imagine, that next nine nights was quite a
stressful period, and although I didn't realize it at the time,
I suffered massively from stress headaches for several months over
this period. And when I looked back to my first
diary entry that said, you know, first, yeah, stress had
ached today, they got that death threat and I'd never
even linked it. So in other words, this affected me
probably a lot more than I was willing to.
Speaker 3: Admit at the time. Yeah, And I.
Speaker 6: Was looking at it more from a journalistic point of view,
because at the time I was working for a newspaper,
The Lee Times in southeast Essex, and you know, I thought, oh,
this is a great story.
Speaker 3: But it was obviously affected me a.
Speaker 6: Lot more than perhaps, as I said, I was prepared
to me at the time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, what do you sorry one question. Do you think
the alchemist Black Alchemist worked alone?
Speaker 3: Initially?
Speaker 6: Yes, but what became clear is that he was working
with a female because the artifacts initially were seeming left
by one person. There were certain symbols letters on them
that were clearly written in a male hand. And then
in Danbridge Churchyard just after the hurricane in nineteen eighty seven,
we found this dagger, this black ebony dagger with this
grinning ape as a handle stuck into a blooded heart,
and there was writing along the blade of this knife,
which was very clearly a different hand. And unanimously everybody
that saw it, and you know that the actual inscription
is included in The Black Alchemist book.
Speaker 3: It's clearly written in a female writing. It's completely different.
Speaker 6: And I think at that point we realized that he
was working with a woman, and that he probably had
a small group with him as well, possibly five or
six people. And this worried us slightly because this wasn't
now just one deranged man that we were dealing with.
Speaker 3: This was a whole group of people.
Speaker 6: All of them that seemed to have, you know, some
kind of grudge now towards Bernard and myself. And this
is one of the reasons why I wanted to get
the book out, because I thought, if I put this
out into the public domain, you know, just maybe the
whole thing will stop, or that other people be able
to start finding out more information about them, and they'll
go underground and.
Speaker 3: This will be the end of it.
Speaker 6: And yeah, I mean, certainly things did die down eventually,
but it's one of these things which he's still out there,
it's still happening. We didn't get any absolute conclusions. I
bet I rounded off the story as best as I
could in the original version of The Black Alchemist that
came out at the end of nineteen eighty eight, and
I changed that ending for the new version, a remastered
edition of the book that came out earlier on this year. Yeah,
just because you know, I think I brought it out
too soon, so I rendered it off, you know, better
this time. I think it makes for a better read
for the readership. But you know, as I said, accurate
as far as all of the diary reports and memories
are concerned of exactly what happened at that time.
Speaker 3: And there were various other.
Speaker 6: People involved, you know, that that that had experiences, visions,
dreams connected with the Black Alchemist that matched exactly what
Bernard also saw. So you know, this isn't just one man,
you know, coming out with stuff. There was a number
of people involved here.
Speaker 4: Okay, good question.
Speaker 2: Hi Andrew, Hi, do you still have the artifact you've found.
Speaker 3: It?
Speaker 5: As?
Speaker 2: Did there any energy connected to them?
Speaker 3: Not so much now, But I mean it's like anything.
Speaker 6: I mean, obviously objects are charged, and obviously they were
charged at the time of their their creation, and they
were probably doused in in holy water and you know,
things like this at the time and they lose that charge.
But because they've still got magical symbols on them.
Speaker 3: You know, if you put enough focus on them.
Speaker 6: If you started to do you know, meditations and rituals
with them, you would charge them up again and you
would in many ways open up a portal to the
Black Alchemist once more, or whoever is you know, perpetuating
his legacy at least, And you know, to be honest,
myself and my colleague riche Wald have rich Wald have
actually done this because when I knew I was going
to be rewriting the book, I mean a couple of
years ago, we went down to Lullington again and the
long Man of Wilmington and Wilmington Priory and we actually
took the original spear shell spearhead with all the manables
down and put it and put it back in the
ground at Zach spot that it was found and I
had Richard rediscover it, and I was filming it at
the time because I wanted to do a promo video.
And by the way, that promo video is done now
and it's linked in theory I think to my website
Andrew Collins dot com.
Speaker 3: It's not then.
Speaker 6: I should link it now, but it could be found
by just going onto YouTube and just putting Black Alchemist
Andrew Collins and anyway, so you know this was just
for promotional reasons. But what was so strange is that
the day that we were down there, a day which
started off in beautiful weather, which is quite clear from
the footage that we took, suddenly took a turn. And
even by the time that we moved from Lullington to
our next port of call, which was Lullington Sorry, Wilmington Church,
now it was you know, false four or five gales
and by the time we ended the day, it was
the gales were just so violent that just could hardly
stand on effect. And this was in the middle of summer,
around Midsummer. And so you know, we and as Richard
and I were sitting in a car on the top
of the South Downs trying to link with this, Richard
started picking up some quite incredible material about the Black
Alchemist and what he had originally been up to at
Lullington and at the band of Wilmington. And this is
stuff which, you know, if we want there to be
followed up at some point in the future. But all
of this is in the book, by the way, the
new remastered issue. I mean, I've got like a section
right at the end which is called I can't know
what it's called. Now, but it's like I've done it
as a final chapter and it's Richard and I going
back to the area and you know, all of everything
kicking off again.
Speaker 3: Basically, did you.
Speaker 2: Ever find out what list what the significance was of
the state of Nazia?
Speaker 6: Yes, I mean in the original book, I don't really
come back to it, simply because it really sort of
paled into insignificance with regard to the whole Black Alchemist story.
But what I've done for the new remastered version is
to bring in the material that Bernard did pick up
after this time and what I actually did to check
it out relating to the state of Nasia. And I
mean this included, for instance, me going to France a
place called god I can't remember at the moment, but
this castle somewhere in France and going into this this
unround shaft which possibly had been created by the Nazis
in the Second World War tunneling underneath this castle, this castle,
which was actually picked up by by by Bernard had
felt they'd done this tunneling. I didn't actually confirm it
until I got to the spot. And this was many
years before the internet, and I was actually going through
this tunnel and it started to collapse. I was sort
of walking through it and stuff started falling from the ceiling,
and you know that the sense was is that somewhere
down the end of this was a fragment of the
state of Nasea, because what Bernard had picked up is
that eventually, in about the fourteenth century, the owners of
it at that time, who were the I think, was
that the de Warren family, who were the els I
think of Surrey, heard the object in a possession and
they cut it up.
Speaker 3: Not knowing it it's its value.
Speaker 6: They'd actually split it into four pieces, which were then
you know, used as as as you know, sort of
what's the right word collateral or whatever with within the family,
and that one of the pieces, he felt actually ended
up in the hands of a French monarch, a French
monarch uh and he, you know, he picked up the
name of this particular monarch, and I was able to
check the listing of sacred relics that were said to
have been in the ownership of this king, and one
of them was a piece of the rod of Moses.
And as they're saying, be some indication that this Stavid
Nazir was seen by some people as the original Rod
of Moses. I thought this has to be it. So
we did actually find that the Stave of Nazir existed,
but we never obviously found a piece. One of the
pieces was said to eventually have been buried beneath the
altar at Wilmington Church, obviously very close to Lullington where
the whole Black Alchemist thing kicked off in nineteen eighty five.
And what Richard and I found out only when we
went back down there two years ago is that there
is supposed to have been a tunnel from that very
position to the Wilmington Priory next door, and I reckon,
there's a good chance that that piece of that Staven
Nazir is inside that tunnel even to this day.
Speaker 3: So I mean, that's yeah.
Speaker 6: So in other words, I updated and put all of
this into the new version of The Black Alchemists. You know,
it's not totally relevant to the story, but people continually
asked me, They said, well, what happened.
Speaker 3: To the Stave of Nazia.
Speaker 6: You know, you talk about it that the early part
of the book, and you never returned to it. So
you know, I've rectified that.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: Could it be that it was he was actually using
the power from the staff to do what it wanted
to do.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I mean because it would have been a
par I mean there.
Speaker 6: Was a reason if sorry, I mean, there was a
reason why we were looking for the stave and Nazera
in the first place. And the psychic information from Bernard
had suggested that it wasn't so much the physical object itself.
It was some kind of spirit essence which was serpentine
in nature, that was contained within it, that had been
passed down almost through some kind of priestly line right
the way from a very early prehistoric period, perhaps even
going back to ten twelve thousand BC.
Speaker 3: Relating to this.
Speaker 6: Underground structure which Bernard had started picking up existed in
the area of the Sphinx and the Great Pyramid. Now,
followers of Eggar Case the America's Sleeping Psychic referred to
this as the whole of records, some kind of secret
chamber that or you know, secret caves or something that
exists beneath the plateau of Geezer. But Bernard and I
started referring to them very specifically as the crystal chambers,
because we believe that there were certain artifacts that were
contained within them, one of which was this quite large
crystal that was seen as like a point of first creation,
like a bend benstone, an original enphiloss or naval stone.
And we've felt that if we found a piece of
the state of Nazia, we could take that essence and
that would help us to explore what we call the
Crystal Chambers. And so when I actually went to France,
because I didn't actually get a piece of it, but
I got very close to it, I did a ritual
within this this collapsing tunnel to try and draw the
essence from the fragment into an object, which I brought
with me for that purpose and brought that back and
rich and Bernard and I used this in our exploration
of the Crystal Chambers. But I think what's important here
is that some of the listeners might say, well, isn't
this all a bit airy fairy and a bit you know, fantasy,
like you know, a bit dungeons and dragons. Well, I
think that what's important to know is that the inspiration
that this gave me enabled me to rediscover Gezer's Lost
Cave world.
Speaker 3: In two thousand and eight.
Speaker 6: And you know, it was a story all the way
around the world, you know, CNN, NBC, everything that my
rediscovery with my colleague Nigel Skinner Simpson of Gezer's Lost
Cave System in two thousand and eight. So, in other words,
that's how far you can take psychic information.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, Well, one more quick question before we move
on to the other subject. Do you know the name
of the black our alchemist? And if you did, would
you use it? As there's power in a name.
Speaker 6: I don't have his given name, but I do have,
and I'm not going to reveal it, but I do
have a name that he used, which we've confirmed and
we're following that up. And there was a reason why
he used that name. It was because he believed that
he was descended from, you know, a particular family who
he believed had magical you know, links with folk magic
that went back a very long way, possibly in connections
with alchemy, and that he adopted this name for use
here and there. But this is work which you know,
which we can continue to work in on and you know,
may well see the light of day eventually. I really
hope it does, because I don't want it to die
with me basically.
Speaker 4: Okay, just before we move on, do you think there's
any link between the Black Alchemists and clapp and Woods.
Speaker 3: Well, clapp and Woods is a very mysterious.
Speaker 6: Place in West I mean, most of the Black Alchemist's
activities were centered around the South Downs or Sussex Downs,
around the Long Man of Wilmington.
Speaker 3: But if you go west from.
Speaker 6: There along the A one two seven, in the area
obviously where the very tragic plane crash took place at
Shoreham within the past few weeks, you eventually come to
the area of Clapham and this is a very mysterious
wood which since the nineteen seventies and possibly even earlier,
has been the center of a lot of paranormal phenomena,
everything from UFOs to horses being spooked, dogs being spooked,
some mysterious deaths of individuals in that area, app strange atmosphere,
possible occult activity going on there.
Speaker 3: I mean, all this seems to be, you know, pretty realistic.
Speaker 6: But at the end of the nineteen seventies, beginning the
nineteen eighties, some local investigates began to believe that a
group known as the Friends of Hikkarti were operating out
of Clapham Wood. Now, the reason why they believed This
was an alleged meeting between one of the investigators and
one of the members of this group actually Crossroads within
the Woods, which some people doubt actually took place.
Speaker 3: But you know, it's a personal experience that's claimed.
Speaker 6: And other strange letters that were received by the other researcher,
whose name was Toy Newton, and they wrote a book
eventually called The Demonic Connection, and this appeared I think
in nineteen eighty seven for the first time, now quite
separate to this. Bernard and even before the book was
published started to pick up on this place called Clapham
and he says, I feel that there's a link between
the Black Alchemist and this place called Clapham. But his
words to me were, get a very bad feeling about
this place.
Speaker 3: Leave it alone. It's not directly linked with anything we're doing.
Speaker 6: I wouldn't I wouldn't rush off, because you know, I
don't think it's going to be particularly relevant to what
we're doing.
Speaker 3: But eventually.
Speaker 6: I did investigate Clapham Wood in connection with the Black Alchemists,
and not so much to do with him, but possibly
the woman who was associated with him, who we started
referring to as the Black Sorceress of Arundel, and we
weren't taking the titles very seriously at this point obviously BSA,
and because we felt that there was a link between
her and the town of Arundel, which I still believe today.
And we're actually given a name for her, which was
Rachel Goodison. This was the name that we were given
for the accomplice, and it's a name which doesn't really
check out, and no psychic information is ever one hundred percent,
so I've never really been able to confirm whether somebody
of that name fits the bill. But I do believe
that there are links between her and the castle at Arundel,
which is something which for legal reasons I won't even
go any further with and and I and I do
genuinely believe that that is is real, but that that's
about as far as as we need to go on
that matter.
Speaker 5: Up.
Speaker 4: Okay, we have had Charles on the show before, Charles.
Speaker 6: Walker, so of course, well, I mean, obviously Charles, you know,
is the person that claimed that the meeting, and I mean,
you know, I've met Charles, I've heard his version of
the story, and you know, he's believable. But that the
problem is that he's claiming something so incredible that a
lot of people don't believe it, and that skepticism has
tainted completely people's views on the so called Friends of
Karti to the degree that a lot of people now
in the occult world don't believe that they even existed
in the first place. Now, I don't know whether they
did or they didn't, but what I'm pretty certain of
is that something weird was going on at Clapham Woods,
and that I do think that the woman associated with
the Black Alchemist was visiting that place and doing stuff.
Whether it's linked with the Friends of Katia or now
looking back in twenty fifteen.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: Okay, just quickly, Mazie wants to know, are you doing
any talks or lectures anywhere soon? He could listen to
you all night.
Speaker 6: Well, not on this particular subject, because I mean, most
of my work today it relates to the ancient mysteries
the origins of civilization, and myself and my colleague Hugh
Newman put on an annual conference known as Origins in London.
It takes place in November this year, on November seventh.
It's in my Land, and our keynote speaker is Graham Hancock,
whose brand new book, Magicians of the Gods is published
within a week or so. And this is basically rewriting
our knowledge relating to the origins of civilization as early
as ten eleven thousand BC.
Speaker 3: And he's a keynote speaker.
Speaker 6: Tickets are on sale now, many many other speakers, including myself,
and you know many others including Linn Picnic and Clive Prince,
the authors of the Templar Revelation which influenced the Da
Vinci Code. And you know, anybody that's interested in anything
we're talking about here should go on to Andrewcollins dot
com my website because it's all up there somewhere.
Speaker 4: Now I want to go over to talk about Go
Beckley Tepe as I say, yeah, we had very quite
a few questions for you, Andrew, so I hope you're
okay with the timing. What is Go Beccley Tape?
Speaker 6: Well, Go Beckley Tepe is arguably the most exciting archaeological
discovery in the last twenty years because what you have
here is what might be described as monumental architecture megalithic
monumental architecture, consisting of a series of stone circles with
T shaped tops to them that are carved, that have
reliefs on them of animals and humans and other abstract
are even you know, symbols, what would you call them,
idio like glyphs and idiograms, very much like the Mayan
you know, sort of.
Speaker 3: Hieroglyphic system.
Speaker 6: And you have these at this huge enclosure which dwarfs
stonehengeine size on this mountaintop in southeast Turkey, discovered as
recently as nineteen ninety four, and the date on this
is nine thousand, five hundred BC. And this is what
Graham Hancock, who I was with when he first visited
the site just a couple of years ago, describes as
the smoking gun of a lot of civilization. But I
mean I was onto this site as early as two thousand.
I first visited there in two thousand and four, and
it followed on from work which I had detailed in
a book called from the Ashes of Angels that came
out as early as nineteen ninety six, where I said
that angels as described under the name Watchers in the
Book of Enoch, actually a memory of this elite group
of Shamans who occupied the area of southeast Turkey or
Anatolia as early as ten thousand BC and kickstarted civilization
in what was known as the Garden of Eden or
the cradle of Civilization, and that you know, you would
find evidence of this lost culture there.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 6: As I was writing these words in nineteen ninety five,
that's when the spade of the archaeologist was hitting the
ground at go Beckley Tape for the first time. And
nobody really knew about Gobecley Tape until about two thousand,
which is when I first heard about it. There was
an article published in a German magazine and I just thought,
oh my god, this is this is the mother lie,
this is this is what I've been talking about. This
is the evidence of this loss civilization in this area.
So I was on the case right from the word go.
And luckily I was privileged to be out there in
two thousand and four given a lecture on from the
Ashes of Angels, and I said, look, you know, as
part of my deal to come out there, you know,
I need to see some of these sights. And they said, yeah,
no problem. Will give you a vehicle, we'll give you
a driver, we'll give you a translator for a week.
So I was able to drive around visiting these places,
including the Beckley Tape, which at the time was still
being uncovered, and there was nobody there when we went there.
There wasn't there was nobody even guarding the site. The
only people that we saw the whole time we were
there was the local farmer and his son, who were
the people that had been trying to tell the local
museum at shan Lufer that there was you know, pieces
of cut and dressed stone with carving on being found,
you know, as they were plowing that the local fields,
you know, on the edge of this mountain ridge. And
nobody had taken any notice until this German archaeologist came
along by the name of Professor Klaus Schmidt in nineteen
ninety four, and he recognized the importance of the site
and immediately began excavations there the following year, and very
gradually over the next five ten years they at least
part of the site. I mean still even today they've
only uncovered about a tenth of the whole you know site,
which is beneath this artificial mound or tepe, you know,
hence the term Quebecley Tepe. But when I first went
there in two thousand and four. I looked at it
and I thought, this looks virtually alien. I mean that
the style of the stone carvings, the manner that this
megalithic architecture was built, just said that the mindset of
these people who existed in nine five hundred BC is
so different to our own that we've almost got to
throw everything away and start again.
Speaker 4: Do you think what's the main use for Gebecy people?
What do you think was the main use for Quebecley
tear painted people? There?
Speaker 6: Well, it was okay, the two main functions. One is
an absolute total interaction with the other world. I think
if you wanted to use two words to describe what
it is that the reader that the listeners might understand,
it's almost like a stargate, if you like. There are
two huge, great T shaped pillars monoliths in the center
of each of the closures that are clearly like gateways portals,
and I think that you stood between those face towards
the north, where in two of the largest enclosures you
face towards this flat faced stone with a big hole
in front of you. Yeah, like a holed stone, which
we refer to as a soul hole. These holes are
the holes that sharman would use to access the other
world whilst in an altered state out of consciousness, perhaps
using halluciner germs or some other means of entering a
shifted state of reality, and they would project their mind
through this and literally go to the stars. They would
climb the mountain the Milky Way and enter the area
of the constellation of sickness, the celestial Swan, but also
the Cross and so called Northern Cross, which is at
the top of something known as the Dark Rift or
the Great Rift, which is the split in the Milky Way,
and where that split begins is the stars of Signals,
and this has universally been seen as the point of
entry and exit to the sky world for probably at
least seventeen to eighteen thousand years, and Quebec Tepe seems
to be focused on that. But it's that's what you
can achieve by being there and being inside these conclosed
But I don't think that that necessarily was its primary function.
I think that the function was to allow the shaman
to enter the other world and then somehow counter the
activities of what might be referred to as tricksters, supernatural
tricksters who were seen to be able to tuget what's
known as the cosmic tree or the cosmic axis and
disturb it in such a way as to cause cataclysms
on Earth, because shortly before Gebecley Tape was constructed, there'd
been a terrible cataclysm in the world, probably caused by
a comet impact around ten nine hundred BC, and that
this destabilized everything. I mean, probably as much as seventy
five percent of the human population were killed, and it
left the whole world in a state of what visionary
writer Barbarahan Cloe refers to as catastrophobia, you know, in
other words, the fear that cataclysm is about to occur again. So,
in other words, every time that a comet appears in
the sky, everybody ducks and hides, you know, yeah, and
that it may well be. And this is what I
argue in my latest book, which is called Quebecy Tape,
Genesis of the Gods, that what Quebecley Tape was constructed
for was to enable the Shamans to enter the other
world to deal with the supernatural tricksters that were seen
in the form of generally either foxes or wolves, and
to deal with them, and so they could come back
from their other worldly journeys and say to the people, Yeah, problem,
there's not going to be a cataclysm. You can all
sleep tight until the next comet comes along. I think
that's exactly what they were constructed for. And some of
the relief imagery at Quebec Tepe clearly suggests that it
represents comets, and I think this is this was what
was going on. In other words, our ancestors felt the
need to supersize their religious shrines and buildings after this cataclysm,
and this is when the first monumental architecture was created,
not just in southeast Turkey, but almost certainly in other
parts of the world, possibly in Java, Indonesia this place Gonumbardang,
and possibly even in England a stone hedge. Most people
don't realize that there's evidence of a proto stone hedge
that goes back to eight thousand BC, and there are
other places around the world that have been put forward
as being.
Speaker 3: Constructed around the same time frame.
Speaker 6: Everywhere from the Sphynx at Geeza by the side of
the Great Pyramid to an arca huge complex in Bolivia
have been suggested to having been built in this time frame,
and I think that this is when monument tecture began
and Quebecley Tape is your smoking gun. This is your
absolute example, because we have carbon fourteen dating that cannot
be disputed, contextual dating of stone tools that are found
at the site that tell us very firmly that the
earliest structures there were created around nine to nine thy
five hundred BC. So that's the area where I am
at the moment. But you know, we're still working with
the psychics on all of this. You know, I mean,
you won't see this in those books, but you know,
I'm happy to hear from people if they feel they've
got a psychic insight into any of these places that
we talk about.
Speaker 3: You know, I want to know. I want to hear
from them. And you do.
Speaker 4: Trips over there, don't you you do?
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, yeah, I mean, if if if you want
to go to Quebec to Tape, or you want to
go to Egypt next year, or you want to go
to Northern India, Laddock Toll, the Tibetan monasteries, talk to
us on Andrew Collins dot com. You know, all of
these tours will be going up in the next week
or so. I mean, some of them already up there
come on to us, and and you know, because all
of these are inspired by the psychic word, every single
one of them. I mean this, this tour too to
northern India, to the area of Laddock, which is in
the Kashmir area known as Little Tibet, where you've got
all these proper Tibetan monasteries still operating today. All of
this was inspired by by psychic visions that I had
in two thousand and four, you know, and that inspires
me to create tours at these places to do some
live questing.
Speaker 3: Whilst we're out there.
Speaker 4: We was asking about republishing any of your other books
in containing psychic question.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I mean I did that by myself.
Speaker 6: I think That's what I'm trying to say is but
doing it yourself is great, yeah, you know, because you can,
you know, you can master it to your absolute perfection,
which is what I did with the with the remastered
version of The Black Alchemist. But having said that, the
only way that books sell is through promotion, Yeah, constant promotion.
And it's something that you know, between you and I.
At the moment, I've got several other projects the tours
the conference in November. Two books I'm trying to do
at the moment, a new one and a rewrite of
an old.
Speaker 3: Book, Michael Gateway to Atlantis.
Speaker 6: So you know, if you haven't got the absolute time
to promote a book, it's probably best to try and
get a publisher to do it, because you know they
can use their gusto to promote the book and you
can leave it in their hands and they'll do all
the work. And that that is probably what I'm going
to do with the Seventh Sword, I think, yeah, right.
Speaker 2: Okay, and go back to go blackly Teppe. It was
obviously used for some sort of religious purposes, whether it
be sham or any other. Was there any and has
there been any burial grounds found?
Speaker 3: Not at Quebec Tepe. No.
Speaker 6: The only thing they have found is within What would
happen is that after a certain period of time, maybe
let's say one hundred years or something, each of the
enclosures was, in our terms, decommission and some of the
stones were removed and the whole thing was just covered over.
They just filled it in with earth and debris and
stone chippings and whatever, and either built another enclosure to
the side of it, or eventually as the mound got
bigger and bigger on top of the earth, and very
gradually they formed like this layer cake of structures that
were getting smaller and smaller as they were getting younger
and younger in age, until you created this artificial mount
which has a depth of about forty five feet. It's
about fifteen mens whatever that is in feet, I'm not
gonna work it out now anyway. And you've got different
layers of these these temple structures within them, and the
same thing happens in the amongst the Maya, various other
Mexican or meso American civilizations. You build on top of
other things, and this is what's happened. And you will
hear out there people saying that Quebecley Tape was deliberately
buried in some kind of hurry, and that's crap. It was.
It was it would create that the mound was created
very gradually over a period of fifteen hundred years, and
then eventually, for whatever reason, the people decided that they'd
had enough and they just covered the rest of it over,
you know, in other words, whatever was.
Speaker 3: Left and just left and went away. And that's what
happened really, so do the answer the question?
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you?
Speaker 4: Right, Okay, well, I've got plenty of questions for you,
but I'm afraid everyone out of time, so we'll have
to get you back on again sometime later on in
the future, so if that's okay with you, of course, okay,
but again, just tell everyone where they can find out
more about your website and everything.
Speaker 6: Well, the site that you know has everything is Andrewcollins
dot com. You know, just type that in and you
know all my books, tours, loads of articles about Quebecty, Tepei,
you know that the Great Pyramids, that the caves at Giza,
they're all there. And if you want any of my books,
I sell signed copies of all my books which you
can get via the website, or if you want to
just get an e book or a straightforward version, should
go on to.
Speaker 3: Amazon and then and then they are basically all the time.
Speaker 4: Okay, thanks again Andrew for giving us your time. It's
it's been brilliant talking to you, very fascinating subjects and
I wish all the best of them up with all
your adventures, and as I say, it would be godad
to get you back on the show. Again sometime and
talk more about this.
Speaker 3: That would be my pleasure. And thank you for having me.
Speaker 4: No problem, Andrew, I hope your cold gets better soon.
Speaker 3: Thank you. I'm breaking tramp