1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,919 Speaker 1: Welcome back. We uh, we need to take a breath 2 00:00:02,919 --> 00:00:04,960 before we start today, because what we are about to 3 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:11,919 walk through is well, it's suffocating, it really is. It's dense. Yeah, 4 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:14,240 and frankly, it's the kind of story that just changes 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:15,279 how you look at the world. 6 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:17,519 Speaker 2: It's absolutely one of those moments where the curtain gets 7 00:00:17,519 --> 00:00:20,039 pulled back and you know, instead of seeing the Wizard 8 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,879 of Oz, you see this rusted grinding machine that's been 9 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:25,480 just chewing people up. 10 00:00:25,399 --> 00:00:28,879 Speaker 1: For decades exactly. We are talking, of course, about the 11 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,640 massive data dump that just happened, the twenty twenty sixth 12 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,240 Department of Justice release of the Epstein files, a huge 13 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,320 rulesse and I want to be clear right up front, 14 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,880 Welcome to thrilling threads. Yeah, we aren't calling this a 15 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,840 deep dive in the traditional sense because well, that implies 16 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,039 we're just looking at one topic. This is not one topic. 17 00:00:48,119 --> 00:00:49,200 This is a spider web. 18 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,399 Speaker 2: That's the perfect visual for it. It is a web. 19 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:53,960 You pull on one string, say a name you recognize 20 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,200 from the news, and suddenly you realize it's tethered to 21 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,119 the White House. You pull another and it's all noted 22 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,280 up with the Vatican. You pull a third and suddenly 23 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:03,439 the entire British monarchy starts to shake. 24 00:01:03,479 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: It's all connected, and that is our mission today. We 25 00:01:07,519 --> 00:01:09,719 aren't just going to rattle off a list of names 26 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:10,760 like some tabloid. 27 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,239 Speaker 2: Anyone can do that, Yeah, that's the easy way out. 28 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:15,239 Speaker 1: We're going to pull on the loose ends of this 29 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,560 document dump and we're talking millions of pages here and 30 00:01:18,599 --> 00:01:22,120 see what unravels. And I have to warn you the listener, 31 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,120 the vibe today is going to be heavy. 32 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 2: It is. 33 00:01:26,079 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 1: We're going to see things that are shocking, things that 34 00:01:27,719 --> 00:01:32,040 are incredibly complex, and honestly, some things that are just absurd. 35 00:01:32,239 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 2: Absurd, is right. I mean, there are moments in these 36 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,799 files that read like a bad airport thriller. You've got 37 00:01:36,799 --> 00:01:41,439 international spy plots, secret codes about leather outfits, geopolitical maneuvering. 38 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,640 But and this is so crucial, we can never lose 39 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,079 sight of the fact that underneath all that absurdity there 40 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,879 is a very real, very dark, human cost. 41 00:01:50,239 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: Right There are victims at the very center of this, 42 00:01:53,439 --> 00:01:57,200 real people who've been waiting for this release for years, 43 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,480 just hoping for some kind of closure, and as we're 44 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:04,959 about to see, getting something very very different. So let's 45 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:06,640 lay up the map. What are the main threads we're 46 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:07,319 pulling on today? 47 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 2: We have a lot. We're going to start with the 48 00:02:10,479 --> 00:02:14,639 absolute clash between the US Attorney General and survivors, which 49 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,120 happened right on the floor of Congress. Okay, then we're 50 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,400 looking at these high ranking officials, I mean, people who 51 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:24,159 are currently running the US economy, who have been caught 52 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:28,199 in these massive lies, these flip flops about when they 53 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,520 actually cut ties with Epstein. 54 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,159 Speaker 1: And we've got that thread that honestly sounds fake, but 55 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,120 it's not involving Steve Bannon trying to use Epstein to 56 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:36,919 take down the Pope. 57 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 2: I still can't get over that one. And then there's 58 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,280 the Hollywood fallout which is now threatening the twenty twenty 59 00:02:41,319 --> 00:02:41,879 eight Olympic. 60 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 1: And in a really weird twist, we have the one 61 00:02:44,759 --> 00:02:48,199 major podcaster who actually just used common sense and said, no, 62 00:02:49,159 --> 00:02:50,080 it's a lot to get through. 63 00:02:50,159 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 2: It is a lot. 64 00:02:50,719 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: So let's start with the event that really kicked this 65 00:02:53,039 --> 00:02:57,759 all off, the hearing February eleventh, twenty twenty six, the 66 00:02:57,759 --> 00:02:59,080 House Judiciary Committee. 67 00:02:59,159 --> 00:03:01,639 Speaker 2: This was the moment, you know, the rubberm at the road. 68 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,000 You have US Attorney General Pam BONDI sitting in the 69 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:08,479 hot seat, and usually these oversight hearings are let's be honest, 70 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,439 they're procedural, they're boring. It's all about budgets and statutes. Yeah, 71 00:03:12,479 --> 00:03:13,719 this was a brawl. 72 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 1: It was and it wasn't just a brawl between politicians. 73 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,080 It felt like a brawl between the you know, the 74 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,080 theatrics of Washington and the actual reality of the victims. 75 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,680 Let's set the scene a little. Okay, Yeah, the DOJ 76 00:03:25,039 --> 00:03:28,879 releasing these files. But the controversy isn't just that they 77 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,400 released them, it's how they released them. 78 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 2: Correct. The core issue here, and this is what Representative 79 00:03:34,719 --> 00:03:38,280 Jamie Raskin was just hammering on, is the redaction process. 80 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: The black ink. 81 00:03:39,199 --> 00:03:41,919 Speaker 2: The black ink. The DJ used a very very heavy 82 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,280 hand to black out the names of uncharged co conspirators 83 00:03:45,639 --> 00:03:48,719 to quote protect their privacy and reputations. 84 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: Okay, I can sort of see the legal argument there. 85 00:03:51,159 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 2: Maybe maybe, but in a twist that is just it's 86 00:03:56,039 --> 00:04:00,520 baffled every legal expert I've read. They failed to properly 87 00:04:00,599 --> 00:04:03,560 redact the identifying details of some of the victims. 88 00:04:03,719 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: Wait, what so they protected the powerful people but exposing 89 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:07,400 the victims. 90 00:04:07,439 --> 00:04:08,639 Speaker 2: That's exactly what happened. 91 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,199 Speaker 1: Which is completely backward right. The entire point of the 92 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:13,479 system is supposed to be to protect the vulnerable and 93 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,879 expose the powerful. Here we're seeing the powerful being shielded 94 00:04:17,879 --> 00:04:21,319 by black ink, while the victims are essentially getting docksed 95 00:04:21,399 --> 00:04:22,720 by their own government exactly. 96 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 2: And that's the question Raskin was pressing Bondie on. He 97 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,279 was asking, essentially, what is the logic here, Why is 98 00:04:28,319 --> 00:04:31,399 the reputation of a billionaire more valuable than the privacy 99 00:04:31,399 --> 00:04:32,639 and safety of a survivor? 100 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: And how did Attorney General Bondi handle that pressure Because 101 00:04:37,199 --> 00:04:41,360 looking at the transcript, she didn't exactly take the high road. 102 00:04:41,519 --> 00:04:43,439 Speaker 2: No, she called it getting in the gutter. That was 103 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,079 her phrase. She refused to engage with the premise of 104 00:04:46,079 --> 00:04:46,879 the question. 105 00:04:46,639 --> 00:04:48,319 Speaker 1: At all, so she just dodged it. 106 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,199 Speaker 2: Dodged it, and then attacked Raskin personally. She called him 107 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,879 a washed up loser lawyer in a congressional hearing on 108 00:04:53,959 --> 00:04:55,680 the record for everyone to hear. 109 00:04:56,079 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: I mean, we've seen standard slip over the years, but 110 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:00,959 that feels like a new love. Oh, It's like c 111 00:05:01,079 --> 00:05:03,720 Span suddenly turned into a really bad reality show fight 112 00:05:05,399 --> 00:05:07,920 Sea Snap. As the internet is calling it. Yeah, But 113 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,160 here is why that matters so much. It's a distraction, 114 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:11,920 isn't it. 115 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 2: It's a classic deflection tactic. It's page one of the playbook. 116 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,240 If you're talking about the insult, you aren't talking about 117 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:22,319 the policy. By calling him a name, she ensured the 118 00:05:22,319 --> 00:05:26,480 headline the next day would be Bondi Slam's raskin not 119 00:05:27,079 --> 00:05:31,120 DOJ failed to protect victim's identities. It just sucks all 120 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:32,319 the oxygen out of the room. 121 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: But there were people in that room who didn't let 122 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:37,839 the oxygen get sucked out. The survivors were there. 123 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,879 Speaker 2: They were and this, for me, this was the most 124 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,399 devastating moment of the entire week. Amidst all this political 125 00:05:43,439 --> 00:05:46,319 shouting and the name calling, the survivors who were present 126 00:05:46,319 --> 00:05:48,839 in the gallery were asked a question. Right They were 127 00:05:48,879 --> 00:05:51,000 asked to raise their hands if they had been unable 128 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,879 to meet with the Department of Justice about their cases. 129 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,639 Speaker 1: Just to get a meeting, not to get justice, not 130 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:00,160 to get a settlement, just to be heard. 131 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 2: The question was essentially, has the DOJ even listened to you? 132 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,040 And the visual description of this moment is just haunting. 133 00:06:07,439 --> 00:06:11,079 The room goes completely quiet and one by one, hands 134 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,839 start going up. Oh many, every single one, every survivor 135 00:06:14,879 --> 00:06:16,000 in that room raised their hand. 136 00:06:16,199 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: That just stops you in your tracks. Yeah, you have 137 00:06:18,639 --> 00:06:21,279 the Attorney General of the United States sitting ten feet 138 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:25,160 away arguing about her own reputation in political theater, while 139 00:06:25,199 --> 00:06:28,759 the actual victims are signaling that the institution has completely 140 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:29,959 utterly ghosted them. 141 00:06:30,319 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 2: It creates this massive, unbridgable disconnect. Bondi dismissed the questioning 142 00:06:35,879 --> 00:06:39,480 as theatrics, but the real theatrics were coming from her 143 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:44,720 from the podium. The reality, the grim, ignored, silent reality, 144 00:06:44,759 --> 00:06:47,040 was sitting right behind her with their hands in the air. 145 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:47,439 Speaker 1: Wow. 146 00:06:47,759 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 2: It really highlights that for the Justice Department, this release 147 00:06:50,319 --> 00:06:52,720 might just be a box checking exercise. You know, Okay, 148 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:54,759 we release the files, We're done. But for the people 149 00:06:54,759 --> 00:06:57,399 in that room, it's an ongoing wound that the system 150 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:58,879 just refuses to treat. 151 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:03,319 Speaker 1: It's bureaucracy over humanity, clean and simple, and speaking of 152 00:07:03,319 --> 00:07:08,759 people trying to hide behind bureaucracy and faulty timelines, let's 153 00:07:08,759 --> 00:07:12,480 move to the next thread, because the political contradictions coming 154 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:14,360 out of the White House and the Cabinet right now 155 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:15,360 are just staggering. 156 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:17,319 Speaker 2: This is where we get into what I'm calling the 157 00:07:17,399 --> 00:07:18,560 memory lapse files. 158 00:07:18,839 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: Memory lapse is being very, very generous. We're talking about 159 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,959 straight up lies. Let's start with Howard Lutnik, the current 160 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:26,480 US Secretary of Commerce. 161 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 2: Right, So, Lupnik is a massive figure. He's the guy 162 00:07:29,759 --> 00:07:33,839 dealing with tariffs, trade wars, the entire US economy. He's 163 00:07:33,839 --> 00:07:36,879 supposed to be a pillar of stability, right. A serious guy, 164 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,120 a very serious guy. And for years his story regarding 165 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,120 Epstein was ironclad. He had a line and he stuck 166 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:45,120 to it. He said, I was his neighbor in New York. 167 00:07:45,279 --> 00:07:47,439 We knew each other. But in two thousand and five, 168 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,839 when the police first raided his house in Palm Beach, 169 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,720 I cut him off, done, never spoke to him again. 170 00:07:52,759 --> 00:07:54,959 Speaker 1: Two thousand and five. That's the safe date, isn't it. 171 00:07:55,199 --> 00:07:57,120 That's the date that allows you to say I knew 172 00:07:57,199 --> 00:07:58,800 him before he was a convicted monster. 173 00:07:59,319 --> 00:08:02,839 Speaker 2: Exactly. It's the Ie was fooled, just like everyone else defense. 174 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:07,600 It's clean. But these new files, they absolutely torched that timeline. 175 00:08:07,639 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: What did he finally admit to. 176 00:08:09,639 --> 00:08:12,759 Speaker 2: In a hearing on February tenth, twenty twenty six, So 177 00:08:12,879 --> 00:08:15,920 just the day before that, Bondie hearing Lutnik was under oath, 178 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,120 and he admitted that he didn't stop seeing Epstein in 179 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,120 two thousand and five. He admitted to a meeting in 180 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:21,920 twenty eleven. 181 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:23,199 Speaker 1: Okay, so that's already a lie. 182 00:08:23,279 --> 00:08:26,639 Speaker 2: It's already a lie. And then, most damningly, he admitted 183 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,560 to having lunch on Epstein's private island in December twenty twelve. 184 00:08:30,639 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: Twenty twelve, let's just pause on that. That's seven years 185 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,279 after the first investigation. That is four full years after 186 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,919 Epstein actually went to jail and registered as a sex offender. 187 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 2: Yes, Lutnik, the future Secretary of Commerce went to the 188 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,399 private island of a registered sex offender for lunch. And 189 00:08:46,399 --> 00:08:47,120 he wasn't alone. 190 00:08:47,639 --> 00:08:49,799 Speaker 1: This is the part that really creeps me out. He 191 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,120 didn't just go for some secret business meeting in a 192 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:54,039 dark room. He brought his family. 193 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 2: He brought his family, and he was there with another 194 00:08:56,159 --> 00:08:57,879 couple who also brought their children. 195 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: I just pause on that for a second. The future 196 00:09:00,519 --> 00:09:03,240 Secretary of Commerce, you know this man is a predator, 197 00:09:03,799 --> 00:09:06,159 you know he has been convicted, you know he is 198 00:09:06,159 --> 00:09:11,279 a registered sex offender, and you take your children to 199 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:13,519 his private island for a social lunch. 200 00:09:13,639 --> 00:09:14,399 Speaker 2: What does that say. 201 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,039 Speaker 1: What does that say about the normalization of this behavior 202 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:18,320 or the calculation. 203 00:09:18,639 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 2: It says that in these circles, the crime didn't matter, 204 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,519 the conviction didn't matter, Epstein was still useful, or he 205 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:28,240 was still socially viable. It completely destroys the I didn't 206 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,159 know defense. You don't take your kids to a monster's 207 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:33,759 lair unless you don't think he's a monster, or unless 208 00:09:33,759 --> 00:09:36,799 you think you're so powerful that you're just untouchable. 209 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: Or unless you think his power his connections are more 210 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:41,720 important than his documented crimes against children. 211 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 2: Precisely, and Lutnik isn't the only one caught in this 212 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,120 everyone new web. We absolutely have to talk about the 213 00:09:48,159 --> 00:09:51,480 former president Jahlan Trump. This thread is fascinating because it 214 00:09:51,519 --> 00:09:54,960 comes from a really specific document. It's a twenty nineteen 215 00:09:55,399 --> 00:09:59,000 FBI summary of an interview with a man named Michael Ryder. 216 00:09:59,159 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: And who's he. 217 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 2: The writer was the police chief of Palm Beach back 218 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:04,960 in two thousand and six, right when the first investigation 219 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:06,039 was really heating up. 220 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: So this is an archival document that just got declassified and. 221 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 2: Released right And according to Chief Raider's recollection to the FBI, 222 00:10:13,799 --> 00:10:16,120 he got a phone call from Donald Trump. In July 223 00:10:16,279 --> 00:10:19,559 of two thousand and six, Trump apparently called to congratulate 224 00:10:19,639 --> 00:10:22,200 him or thank him for investigating Epstein. 225 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,159 Speaker 1: Okay, so on the surface, that sounds like Trump is 226 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,519 the good guy here. He's cheering on the police. 227 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 2: It does, but you have to parse the language he 228 00:10:29,879 --> 00:10:33,679 allegedly use. Writer claims. Trump said, and this is a quote. 229 00:10:33,879 --> 00:10:36,600 Everyone has known. He's been doing this. And he called 230 00:10:36,639 --> 00:10:38,200 Gislaine Maxwell evil. 231 00:10:38,799 --> 00:10:39,879 Speaker 1: Everyone has known. 232 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,399 Speaker 2: That's the phrase that just sticks with you because. 233 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,519 Speaker 1: That completely contradicts the public narrative we've been fed for 234 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,960 twenty years. The narrative has always been we were shocked, 235 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,399 We had no idea, he was just a kirky financier. 236 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,399 But here is Donald Trump in two thousand and six 237 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,679 telling the police chief, yeah, we all knew. 238 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 2: It implies it was an open secret. It wasn't a mystery, 239 00:11:00,159 --> 00:11:03,960 just a feature of the Palm Beach social scene. And 240 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,159 there's another detail in that call that's really telling. Trump 241 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,080 allegedly told the chief that he personally walked out of 242 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,480 Epstein's club, or maybe kicked Extein out of his club. 243 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:16,440 The story shifts a bit because he saw a teenagers present. 244 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,519 Speaker 1: So his defense is I saw kids, So I left. 245 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 2: Right now, we have to add the big caveat that. 246 00:11:22,159 --> 00:11:25,879 The Djane notes, this is chief writer's recollection. There isn't 247 00:11:25,879 --> 00:11:28,200 a tape of this call. It's one man's memory of 248 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,559 a phone conversation from almost twenty years ago. 249 00:11:30,799 --> 00:11:35,279 Speaker 1: Sure it's uncorroborated, but it aligns perfectly with the Lutnik revelation, 250 00:11:35,399 --> 00:11:38,639 doesn't It paints this picture of a world where knowing 251 00:11:38,799 --> 00:11:41,519 wasn't a deal breaker, It was just a data point. Yes, 252 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,200 Trump knew, so he claims he stayed away, but he 253 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,279 didn't go to the press, he didn't warn anyone. Lutnik knew, 254 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:48,799 but he went back for lunch with his kids. 255 00:11:48,879 --> 00:11:51,759 Speaker 2: That's the real tragedy here. Everyone knew is not a defense. 256 00:11:51,799 --> 00:11:54,639 It's an indictment of an entire class of people. If 257 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,399 everyone knew, then why was this machinery allowed to keep 258 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,279 running until twenty nineteen? Why did it take another whole 259 00:12:00,279 --> 00:12:02,120 decade for him to finally be stopped? 260 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: Because he was useful, He was a utility. And that 261 00:12:05,759 --> 00:12:09,720 brings us to the weirdest, darkest, most unexpected thread in 262 00:12:09,759 --> 00:12:13,480 this whole tapestry. We have to talk about the geopolitical plot. 263 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 2: The Steve Bannon thread. I'm still wrapping my head around 264 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:16,559 this one. 265 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:18,879 Speaker 1: I have to admit, when I first saw Steve Bannon 266 00:12:18,919 --> 00:12:21,559 and the Pope in the same paragraph in our notes, 267 00:12:21,919 --> 00:12:24,559 I thought it was a typo or he always loucination. 268 00:12:24,879 --> 00:12:27,399 Speaker 2: It sounds like a game of mad libs, right, Steve 269 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,759 Bannon uses sex trafficker to fight the Pope. But it's real. 270 00:12:30,879 --> 00:12:32,519 These are messages from twenty nineteen. 271 00:12:32,639 --> 00:12:35,519 Speaker 1: Twenty nineteen, so this is right before the end for Epstein. 272 00:12:35,799 --> 00:12:38,200 He's trying to cling to any power he has left. 273 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,279 Speaker 2: Yes, and Bannon isn't emailing Epstein to ask for money. 274 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,799 He's not asking for an introduction to a girl. He's 275 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,279 treating Epstein like he's an intelligence asset. 276 00:12:46,519 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 1: Explain the goal here, What was Bannon actually trying to do. 277 00:12:49,519 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 2: Bannon views Pope Francis as an enemy, a political enemy. 278 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,360 He sees the Pope as a geopolitical force that opposes 279 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,559 his brand of right wing nationalism. In his messages, he 280 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:05,159 calls the Pope ideological opposition. So Bannon hatched this plan 281 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,440 to undermine the Pope's authority. 282 00:13:07,039 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: And the plan involved a book. 283 00:13:08,639 --> 00:13:11,399 Speaker 2: Yes, a very specific book called in the closet of 284 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,440 the Vatican. It's a French expose that alleges massive hypocrisy 285 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:19,480 within the Catholic Church, specifically that a huge percentage of 286 00:13:19,519 --> 00:13:23,639 the clergy are gay men living secret lives. Okay, Bannon 287 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,120 wanted to weaponize this book. He wanted to use the 288 00:13:26,159 --> 00:13:29,120 information in it to basically start a civil war inside 289 00:13:29,159 --> 00:13:31,000 the church and take down the pope. 290 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,519 Speaker 1: And he thought Jeffrey Epstein was the man to help 291 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:34,519 him do that. 292 00:13:34,519 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 2: That's the terrifying part, isn't it? Why Epstein? Why go 293 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:41,720 to a disgraced, convicted financier for this? It suggests that 294 00:13:41,759 --> 00:13:44,120 Bannon viewed Epstein not just as a creep, but as 295 00:13:44,159 --> 00:13:47,279 a master of secrets. He must have thought, who knows 296 00:13:47,279 --> 00:13:50,159 more about blackmail than Jeffrey Epstein? Who knows more about 297 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,960 hiding in plain sight? Who knows more about compromising powerful men? 298 00:13:54,159 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: He viewed Epstein's entire criminal enterprise as a resume exactly. 299 00:13:58,039 --> 00:14:00,759 Speaker 2: He saw the skills that Epstein used to traffic and 300 00:14:00,799 --> 00:14:03,279 abuse women and thought, you know what, those are transferable 301 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,559 skills for geopolitical warfare. He wanted to use Epstein as 302 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:08,799 a utility player in a coup against the Vatican. 303 00:14:08,919 --> 00:14:12,279 Speaker 1: It's just it's beyond belief. Did Epstein agree to this? 304 00:14:12,519 --> 00:14:13,360 Did he respond? 305 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 2: The file suggests he didn't respond directly to the specific pitch. 306 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,919 Speaker 1: It's unclear why, which is almost funny. I mean, was 307 00:14:19,919 --> 00:14:22,159 it too crazy even for Jeffrey Epstein. 308 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:23,759 Speaker 2: Or maybe he was just a little too busy trying 309 00:14:23,759 --> 00:14:26,200 to stay out of federal prison at that point. But 310 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,360 it fundamentally changes how we have to look at Epstein. 311 00:14:29,559 --> 00:14:32,200 We can't just see him as a predator, as horrifying 312 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,080 as that is. We have to see him as a node, 313 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,919 a central point where intelligence, blackmail, finance, and raw power 314 00:14:40,279 --> 00:14:41,200 all intersected. 315 00:14:41,519 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: And Bannon saw that node and just tried to plug 316 00:14:44,799 --> 00:14:45,200 right into it. 317 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,559 Speaker 2: He tried to harness it for his own ideological war. 318 00:14:47,759 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: It's chilling. It elevates the whole scandal from a crime 319 00:14:51,679 --> 00:14:56,480 story to this global conspiracy thriller. And speaking of global 320 00:14:56,519 --> 00:14:59,759 brands and massive fallouts, let's pivot to a thread that 321 00:14:59,799 --> 00:15:04,080 is hitting the culture right now. I'm talking about Hollywood. 322 00:15:03,399 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 2: The Casey Wasserman thread. This is a big one. 323 00:15:05,759 --> 00:15:08,039 Speaker 1: For those who don't know the name. Casey Wasserman is, 324 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,840 or I guess was, the king of Hollywood agents. He's 325 00:15:10,879 --> 00:15:13,720 the grandson of the legendary Lou Wasserman. He ran a 326 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:17,039 massive talent agency and crucially he is the chairman of 327 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,440 the twenty twenty eight Los Angeles Olympics. 328 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,399 Speaker 2: A huge, huge figure. But these files have absolutely moved 329 00:15:23,399 --> 00:15:26,320 his reputation. He's been forced to sell his talent agency, 330 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:28,879 and the reason is found in a series of emails 331 00:15:28,919 --> 00:15:30,399 from way back in two thousand. 332 00:15:30,159 --> 00:15:32,559 Speaker 1: And three, emails with Gislaine Maxwell. 333 00:15:32,799 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 2: Yes, and these aren't vague emails about scheduling a lunch. 334 00:15:35,879 --> 00:15:39,440 These are explicit. You have Wasserman writing to Maxwell about 335 00:15:39,679 --> 00:15:44,240 tight leather outfits and then Maxwell replying offering massages that 336 00:15:44,279 --> 00:15:47,639 can drive a man wild. It's sordid stuff. 337 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: Okay, let's play the skeptic for a second, just to 338 00:15:49,759 --> 00:15:53,480 be fair. Washerman's defense is this was two thousand and three. 339 00:15:53,679 --> 00:15:56,360 I was a young guy. I was flirting. This was 340 00:15:56,399 --> 00:15:58,519 long before I knew they were running a trafficking ring. 341 00:15:58,879 --> 00:16:01,120 And besides, I also fl on Epstein's plan in two 342 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,279 thousand and two for humanitarian trip link to the Clinton Foundation. 343 00:16:04,679 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 2: The humanitarian trip defense, it's a classic. We've heard it 344 00:16:07,639 --> 00:16:10,200 a lot, but here is why that defense isn't working 345 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,799 for him this time. It's not about the law anymore. 346 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,039 It's about the market, and the market decided his defense was. 347 00:16:16,039 --> 00:16:17,879 Speaker 1: Garbage because the clients walked. 348 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,519 Speaker 2: The clients fled, and look at who fled. This is 349 00:16:20,519 --> 00:16:22,919 the important part of the story. We're talking about chapul Ron. 350 00:16:23,039 --> 00:16:25,759 Speaker 1: Who is arguably the biggest pop star on the planet 351 00:16:25,799 --> 00:16:26,200 right now. 352 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 2: Exactly. We're talking about soccer legend Abby Wambach, the singer 353 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,080 Orville Peck Bethany Cosentino from the band Best Coast. 354 00:16:34,279 --> 00:16:37,039 Speaker 1: So Chavlarone is a massive pop star. Orville Peck is 355 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,639 a queer country icon. Abby Wamback is a feminist hero. 356 00:16:41,279 --> 00:16:43,639 These are not just random celebrities exactly. 357 00:16:43,679 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 2: These are artists whose entire brands are built on authenticity, 358 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,600 on safety, on progressive values. They cannot be represented by 359 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,279 a man who was trading leather fetish emails with a 360 00:16:53,759 --> 00:16:57,360 child sex trafficker. It destroys their brand. So they walked, 361 00:16:57,559 --> 00:17:01,159 And because the talent walked, the agency collapsed. Wasserman had 362 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:02,840 no choice but to sell. 363 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,400 Speaker 1: But here is the massive contradiction that I just cannot 364 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,480 wrap my head around. He lost his private business. He 365 00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:11,480 is toxic to chapal Roone and her entire audience. But 366 00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:14,279 he is still running the Olympics. 367 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,319 Speaker 2: That is the tension we are living in right now. 368 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,880 The Olympics is a massive, slow moving corporate bureaucracy. It's 369 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,079 sponsored by Visa, Coca Cola Delta. They don't move as 370 00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:25,519 fast as a pop stars management team. But think about 371 00:17:25,519 --> 00:17:26,799 the position this puts them in. 372 00:17:27,039 --> 00:17:30,519 Speaker 1: Right, If you're the CEO of Visa, do you want 373 00:17:30,599 --> 00:17:33,359 Casey Wasserman standing on the podium next to the gold 374 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,119 medalist in gymnastics in twenty twenty eight? 375 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 2: Do you want the public face of your massive global 376 00:17:39,039 --> 00:17:42,680 event to be a guy who has tight leather emails 377 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,359 and the public record for every journalist to see. It's 378 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:47,119 a ticking time bomb. 379 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: It really shows the selective nature of cancel culture, doesn't it. Yeah, 380 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,720 you can lose your clients and your agency instantly, but 381 00:17:53,839 --> 00:17:57,559 that institutional old guard power that grips on much tighter. 382 00:17:57,839 --> 00:17:59,000 It's harder to dislodge. 383 00:17:59,039 --> 00:18:00,759 Speaker 2: I think we are going to see more movement on 384 00:18:00,799 --> 00:18:02,559 that though. I just don't see how he survives this 385 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,559 until twenty twenty eight. No way, The pressure will continue 386 00:18:05,599 --> 00:18:08,359 to build, The sponsors will quietly make a phone call, 387 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,359 and one day he'll announce he stepping down for personal reasons. 388 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:13,079 That's how these things usually go. 389 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:17,079 Speaker 1: Personal reasons, the great euphemism for we finally got caught 390 00:18:17,279 --> 00:18:20,039 exactly now. If the Olympics are global, this next thread 391 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,279 is literally the infrastructure of the globe itself. We are 392 00:18:23,279 --> 00:18:25,599 going to the Middle East and we are going deep 393 00:18:25,599 --> 00:18:26,680 into the shipping industry. 394 00:18:26,839 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 2: The Sultan of Dubai thread, Sultan Ahmed Binsulayem. This is 395 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,200 a name most people won't know, but he's incredibly powerful. 396 00:18:34,279 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 1: This guy was the chairman and CEO of DP World. 397 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,759 If you aren't a logistics nerd, tell us why DEP 398 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:40,880 World matters so much. 399 00:18:41,079 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 2: Depworld runs the ports. They run the massive container terminals 400 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,039 where all the ships land. They control the flow of 401 00:18:47,079 --> 00:18:49,559 goods for a huge chunk of the planet. If you 402 00:18:49,559 --> 00:18:52,000 control the ports, you control the global economy. 403 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 1: And Epstein he knew this guy knew him. 404 00:18:55,599 --> 00:18:58,759 Speaker 2: Epstein claimed in emails that he was basically in charge 405 00:18:58,759 --> 00:18:59,240 of the port. 406 00:18:59,319 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: Wait. Jeff f're Epstein, a finance here from New York, 407 00:19:02,279 --> 00:19:04,920 claimed he was in charge of DP World's global ports. 408 00:19:05,079 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 2: That's what he told people, and the emails back up 409 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,960 a very very close relationship. They show a connection going 410 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,319 back to at least two thousand and seven, the Sultan 411 00:19:13,519 --> 00:19:15,759 was described in Epstein's own notes as one of his 412 00:19:15,839 --> 00:19:19,839 most trusted friends. Ooh, and in another email, Epstein wrote 413 00:19:19,839 --> 00:19:21,759 that the Sultan was the only person he had ever 414 00:19:21,799 --> 00:19:23,200 met who was as crazy as me. 415 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 1: As crazy as me. That is absolutely terrifying. When Jeffrey 416 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,440 Epstein calls you crazy, that is not a compliment. That's 417 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:30,839 a five alarm diagnosis. 418 00:19:31,079 --> 00:19:33,519 Speaker 2: It is and it gets so much darker. In a 419 00:19:33,559 --> 00:19:36,160 two thousand and nine email that was released, Epstein wrote 420 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,680 to the Sultan and said he loved the torture video. 421 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: Love the torture video. Do we know what video that is? 422 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,640 Speaker 2: We don't. The files don't elaborate. It could be anything 423 00:19:45,799 --> 00:19:48,559 from a movie clip to something far, far worse. We 424 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,200 just don't know. But just let those words sink in. 425 00:19:51,799 --> 00:19:53,640 You have the man running the world's ports and the 426 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,960 world's most notorious traffickers bonding over a torture video. 427 00:19:57,279 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: It makes you question the security the entire global supply chain. 428 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,359 If Epstein had hooks that deep into the Sultan, what 429 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,160 could he ask for? Could he move things through ports 430 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,559 without inspection? Could he move people? 431 00:20:08,839 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 2: That's the terrifying implication. It moves the conversation from sexual abuse, 432 00:20:12,759 --> 00:20:17,000 which is horrific enough to a full blown national security nightmare. 433 00:20:17,519 --> 00:20:20,400 If Epstein had leverage over the chairman of DP world, 434 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,799 he had a secret backdoor into global trade. 435 00:20:24,039 --> 00:20:26,319 Speaker 1: It's just staggering. And he didn't just have back doors 436 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,640 into trade. It seems he had backdoors into the British monarchy. 437 00:20:30,079 --> 00:20:31,240 We have to talk about Prince. 438 00:20:31,079 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 2: Andrew again, the royal thread. 439 00:20:33,279 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: Now. 440 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 2: Look, we've known Andrew was involved for years. The photo 441 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,279 of him with Virginia Gruffrey is iconic in the worst 442 00:20:39,319 --> 00:20:42,640 possible way. But these new files at a completely new 443 00:20:42,839 --> 00:20:44,759 and frankly treasonist demension. 444 00:20:44,839 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 1: It's not just about the partying anymore, is it. It's 445 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:47,759 about state secrets. 446 00:20:48,039 --> 00:20:52,279 Speaker 2: The timeline here is absolutely critical. It's November thirty, twenty ten. 447 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,839 Prince Andrew is serving as the UK's Special Representative for 448 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,559 International Trade and Investment. He's a trade envoy. 449 00:20:59,319 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: So he's in a f official government role. He has 450 00:21:01,279 --> 00:21:02,119 security clearance. 451 00:21:02,279 --> 00:21:05,599 Speaker 2: Yes, he receives official government reports on his trade visits 452 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:10,440 to Vietnam, Singapore and China. These documents contain sensitive economic 453 00:21:10,519 --> 00:21:14,200 data UK trade strategies, potentially confidential discussions he had with 454 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,960 foreign leaders. This is classified information? 455 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 1: And what does he do with these state secrets? 456 00:21:19,039 --> 00:21:22,839 Speaker 2: The email timestamps show that literally five minutes after receiving them, 457 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:27,559 five minutes, he forwards the entire email chain to Jeffrey Epstone. 458 00:21:27,799 --> 00:21:32,039 Speaker 1: Why why on Earth does Jeffrey Epstein, a disgraced American financier, 459 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,720 need top level UK trade secrets regarding China. 460 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 2: That is the billion dollar question that King Charles and 461 00:21:39,039 --> 00:21:42,440 Prince William are probably screaming at the palace walls right now. 462 00:21:42,599 --> 00:21:46,359 Was Epstein acting at some kind of shadow advisor? Was 463 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,559 Andrew asking for financial advice or and this is the 464 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,839 really scary part, was Andrew paying a debt? Was he 465 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,440 feeding Epstein information that Epstein could then monetize or trade? 466 00:21:56,519 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: Information is currency in that world. If Epstein knows what 467 00:21:59,759 --> 00:22:02,400 the u UK is planning in China before the market does, 468 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,400 he can make millions, or he can trade that information 469 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,000 to another government, to another corporation. 470 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 2: Exactly. It's just Andrew wasn't just a friend who partied 471 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,480 with him. He was a source. He was an asset. 472 00:22:12,559 --> 00:22:16,319 He was a leaking faucet of state secrets flowing directly 473 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:17,960 into Jeffrey Epstein's hard drive. 474 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,599 Speaker 1: And what has the royal family's reaction been to this 475 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:21,400 new revelation. 476 00:22:21,599 --> 00:22:24,839 Speaker 2: It's been panicmassed as dignity. King Charles put out a 477 00:22:24,839 --> 00:22:28,119 statement saying he'd support any and all police inquiries, which 478 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,599 is huge. That's him basically saying I'm not protecting him anymore. 479 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:32,400 The shield is. 480 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,039 Speaker 1: Down right, He's on his own. 481 00:22:34,319 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 2: And William and Kate issued a very careful statement that 482 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,480 focused entirely on the victims. They are distancing themselves from 483 00:22:41,519 --> 00:22:42,480 Andrew at light speed. 484 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,039 Speaker 1: They know the ship is sinking and they are cutting 485 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:45,640 the anchor. 486 00:22:45,759 --> 00:22:47,839 Speaker 2: Andrew is the anchor. There's no doubt about it. 487 00:22:48,319 --> 00:22:51,599 Speaker 1: So we've been waiting through just absolute muck for the 488 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,799 last hour. We have lies from the Commerce secretary, we 489 00:22:54,839 --> 00:22:58,640 have open secrets from a former president, we have bizarre 490 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,119 plots against the Pope, trade secrets being leaked by a prince. 491 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,480 It really feels like everyone is dirty, everyone is compromised. 492 00:23:05,519 --> 00:23:08,759 Speaker 2: It does feel that way. It's an overwhelming feeling of corruption. 493 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:13,279 Speaker 1: But then we find one single thread that gives me 494 00:23:13,319 --> 00:23:15,359 a tiny bit of hope, or at least it gave 495 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:15,839 me a laugh. 496 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 2: The Joe Rogan thread. 497 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 1: Yes, of all the people in his entire saga to 498 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,319 emerge as the voice of moral clarity. It's Joe Rogan. 499 00:23:23,599 --> 00:23:26,400 Speaker 2: It's a great story and it's so simple. It's September 500 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,759 twenty seventeen. Epstein is still out there. He's out of jail. 501 00:23:29,839 --> 00:23:32,000 He's trying to rehabilitate his image and get back into 502 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:33,160 the mainstream. 503 00:23:32,799 --> 00:23:36,279 Speaker 1: Right the I'm a Scientist Now tour exactly. 504 00:23:36,839 --> 00:23:40,279 Speaker 2: He emails Lawrence Kraus, a physicist who had been on 505 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:44,759 Rogan show, and Epstein has seen Kraus on the Joe. 506 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: Rogan experience, and Epstein wants in. 507 00:23:46,519 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 2: He wants in. He writes in the email that he 508 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:53,039 finds Rogan funny and asks Kraus for an introduction. He 509 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:54,720 wants a meeting. 510 00:23:55,079 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 1: Just imagine that meeting for a second, Jeffrey Epstein and 511 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,519 Joe Rogan in the studio. It's the most bases our thought. 512 00:24:00,799 --> 00:24:02,079 But what did Rogan do? 513 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 2: He shut it down instantlymediately, Let me think about it immediately. 514 00:24:07,559 --> 00:24:09,759 And Rogan's quote on this, when he was asked about 515 00:24:09,759 --> 00:24:11,920 it later, is just perfect. He said, I was like, 516 00:24:12,039 --> 00:24:13,000 are you high? 517 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,519 Speaker 1: Are you high? I can literally hear him saying it. 518 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 2: He said he did what. Apparently the British monarchy and 519 00:24:18,519 --> 00:24:20,920 the entire US cabinet couldn't figure out how to do. 520 00:24:21,319 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 1: He googled him, He googled him, He. 521 00:24:23,039 --> 00:24:27,039 Speaker 2: Googled Jeffrey Epstein, saw the conviction, saw the stories about 522 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,559 underage girls, and said, no way, it's not even a possibility. 523 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: This is why I love this thread so much. It 524 00:24:32,279 --> 00:24:36,160 completely destroys the oh he was complicated, excuse it destroys 525 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,759 the he was a powerful financier. You had to take 526 00:24:38,799 --> 00:24:39,440 a meeting with him. 527 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:40,599 Speaker 2: Excuse demolishes it. 528 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,559 Speaker 1: Joe Rogan, a guy who talks about aliens and cage 529 00:24:43,559 --> 00:24:46,680 fighting for a living, looked at the publicly available facts 530 00:24:47,079 --> 00:24:50,519 and applied basic kindergarten level common sense. 531 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 2: It proves that association was a choice. It wasn't gravity. 532 00:24:54,279 --> 00:24:56,599 You didn't just fall into Epstein's orbit. You chose to 533 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,039 walk into it, and you walked into it because you 534 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:04,880 wanted something from him, money, access, power, something. Rogan didn't 535 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,160 need Epstein's money or his connections, so he saw him 536 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,319 for exactly what he was, a creepy criminal. 537 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: It's a simple purity test that the world's elites failed miserably. 538 00:25:15,799 --> 00:25:17,880 So let's try to wrap this up. We've pulled on 539 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,440 all these threads, We've looked at the machinery. What is 540 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,640 the big picture here? What does it all add up. 541 00:25:22,519 --> 00:25:24,799 Speaker 2: To, the big picture is that this wasn't just a 542 00:25:24,799 --> 00:25:28,720 sex ring. That's almost too simple. It was an alternative economy. 543 00:25:28,839 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 1: Explain what you mean by that. 544 00:25:30,039 --> 00:25:32,799 Speaker 2: Think about what we've just discussed. We have UK trade 545 00:25:32,839 --> 00:25:36,119 secrets being used as currency. We have introductions to try 546 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,920 and take down the pope being plotted. We have access 547 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,680 to global shipping ports being leveraged. We have Olympic reputations 548 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,039 being made and broken. Epstein created a marketplace outside of 549 00:25:46,039 --> 00:25:47,000 the normal one, and. 550 00:25:47,039 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: The currency in that marketplace. 551 00:25:48,519 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 2: The currency was blackmail. The currency was compromising photos. The 552 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,200 currency was those tight leather emails that could be held 553 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,480 over your head twenty years later. The currency was the 554 00:25:59,559 --> 00:26:03,640 shared knowledge that everyone knows but nobody says anything out loud. 555 00:26:03,839 --> 00:26:06,279 It was a market built on secrets and shame. 556 00:26:06,599 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: And the victims they. 557 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 2: Were the collateral damage. They were the raw material that 558 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,880 fueled this entire engine. That's why that moment in the 559 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,200 hearing was so powerful. When those women raise their hands, 560 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,279 they were trying to break the machine. They were standing 561 00:26:19,319 --> 00:26:22,200 up and saying, we are not currency, we are not collateral. 562 00:26:22,279 --> 00:26:23,039 We are people. 563 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: It brings us right back to that Trump quote, doesn't 564 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,160 it Everyone has known. 565 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 2: That's the haunting phrase of this whole story. 566 00:26:29,759 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 1: Everyone knew, And that leads to the question we really 567 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,240 want to leave you with today. We live in an 568 00:26:35,319 --> 00:26:38,440 age of information overload. We have the files now, we 569 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,799 have the documents. We know who lied, we know who 570 00:26:40,799 --> 00:26:42,000 went to the island. 571 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 2: We have the receipts. There's no more hiding. 572 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:48,559 Speaker 1: So do we as a society accept everyone knew as 573 00:26:48,599 --> 00:26:51,599 an excuse? Do we accept it was a different time 574 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,200 from the people who are still running our economy in 575 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,759 our Olympics, or do we finally recognize that everyone knew 576 00:26:57,839 --> 00:27:00,400 isn't an excuse at all. It's an admission of guilt. 577 00:27:00,759 --> 00:27:03,519 Speaker 2: Because, as Joe Rogan improved with a simple Google search, 578 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,559 if you knew, you could have just said no exactly. 579 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 1: Complicity is a choice. Silence is a choice, and right 580 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,559 now we all need to decide if we're going to 581 00:27:12,599 --> 00:27:15,160 accept their excuses or if we're going to demand real, 582 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:16,799 meaningful accountability. 583 00:27:17,039 --> 00:27:18,759 Speaker 2: The threads are all there now, we just have to 584 00:27:18,839 --> 00:27:19,680 keep pulling on them. 585 00:27:20,079 --> 00:27:23,319 Speaker 1: We want to know what you think. Is everyone new 586 00:27:23,599 --> 00:27:26,559 a defense or is it a confession. Drop a comment 587 00:27:26,559 --> 00:27:28,079 below let us know where you stand on this. 588 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 2: And keep your eyes open for the next thread. 589 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,599 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us on thrilling threads. We'll see you 590 00:27:32,599 --> 00:27:33,000 next time.