1
00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:09,759
Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Sikos. Per the screen, I am

2
00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,039
a certified fantabulous grand Views and I am joined by

3
00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:17,879
my shit stain of a co host, Dan Favali. We're

4
00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,399
here for our sophomore. We haven't done a stock report

5
00:00:21,399 --> 00:00:23,120
on sophomore this year. We did some rookie stuff and

6
00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,039
they're always gonna come up with awards. There's no award

7
00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:27,920
for a sophomore, which I'd be open to there being

8
00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,079
like Sophomore of the Year award. By the way, Dan,

9
00:00:30,839 --> 00:00:32,719
but we're just here where the stock report will give

10
00:00:32,719 --> 00:00:36,119
our verdicts stock up, stock down. But first and foremost

11
00:00:36,119 --> 00:00:38,640
the most important question, and you don't get asked. You

12
00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,479
don't get asked this nearly enough to open the show, Dan,

13
00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:42,960
how are you doing? Well?

14
00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:47,159
Speaker 2: Here's the problem. I feel like you've really overstepped because

15
00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,359
it's my job if I'm Dan today, which the handle

16
00:00:51,119 --> 00:00:52,960
at the bottom of the screen says, I am to

17
00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,960
ask you how you're doing, and then it's on. It's

18
00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,320
in coming on you to try to come up with

19
00:00:58,439 --> 00:01:04,400
something interesting or pithy or vampy so that you, meaning me,

20
00:01:05,079 --> 00:01:07,959
who's you can like do whatever I need to do

21
00:01:08,079 --> 00:01:11,120
to prep the next section of the pod. So how's

22
00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:11,519
it feel?

23
00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:16,000
Speaker 1: How's what feel being asked how you're doing? So here's

24
00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:17,159
how I'm doing. Now, I have to give you the

25
00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,640
anecdote that that you would normally give me. I have.

26
00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,519
I have a gym complaint. Let's open up. Let's open

27
00:01:23,599 --> 00:01:26,200
up with this I have. I'm all for people going

28
00:01:26,239 --> 00:01:29,040
to the gym. I love being at the gym, and

29
00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,200
I understand like when you go to a commercial gym,

30
00:01:31,239 --> 00:01:33,959
you have to you know, be swift with right. I

31
00:01:34,079 --> 00:01:35,640
have to change my plan. You can't get married to

32
00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,159
a machine unless you're gonna go at like psychotic times

33
00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,560
like four in the morning. I don't like when people

34
00:01:41,599 --> 00:01:44,400
come up to me when it's busy, and I'm always

35
00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,359
very nice and I'll let people work in, but like

36
00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,200
if I'm mid rep in my set, like that's probably

37
00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,640
not the time to ask if you can use my machine,

38
00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,280
Like when I'm in the middle of pushing and like

39
00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,799
I'm not lifting it's me so I'm not like you know,

40
00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,959
benching or like using machine benching like three hundred plus pounds,

41
00:02:01,239 --> 00:02:03,120
but like the amount of times where it's like people

42
00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,480
have come up and like I'm in the middle like

43
00:02:05,599 --> 00:02:07,719
a set and they're like tapping me on the shoulder

44
00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,240
and my headphones are in to just a tiny complaint,

45
00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,719
I'm all again, there's the whole I know people get

46
00:02:13,719 --> 00:02:17,439
frustrated around January, New Year, New Me, influx of enrollees,

47
00:02:17,479 --> 00:02:20,479
but it's become just I just don't get it.

48
00:02:20,719 --> 00:02:23,039
Speaker 2: That feels like a pretty basic etiquette thing, Like even

49
00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,280
if you're not if it's your first day on January

50
00:02:26,319 --> 00:02:29,560
second or whatever, it feels like you should just know

51
00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,280
not to like take thirty more seconds and wait for

52
00:02:32,319 --> 00:02:34,560
the person. I mean, like this is that's a valid

53
00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:35,680
complaint that you're making.

54
00:02:36,039 --> 00:02:37,800
Speaker 1: And it's also the reason I'm okay saying it is

55
00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,400
because the people who are doing it look exactly like

56
00:02:40,479 --> 00:02:42,360
you expect them to look like they're not the first

57
00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,240
time people at the gym, because I think those people

58
00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,840
are probably for the most part, more they're gonna overthink

59
00:02:47,879 --> 00:02:51,960
things and like give it more forethought than people who

60
00:02:52,039 --> 00:02:54,439
just assume that their worked out their lift is more

61
00:02:54,439 --> 00:02:57,439
important than yours because of whatever goal they might have

62
00:02:57,599 --> 00:02:59,759
in mind. So take make of that what you will.

63
00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,319
With these people, for generally speaking, look and are wearing

64
00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,479
exactly what you would expect them to look and war.

65
00:03:06,439 --> 00:03:09,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean I feel like you're being bullied and

66
00:03:10,199 --> 00:03:11,800
you should lodge a complaint.

67
00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,479
Speaker 1: I I'm gonna go to the gym desk and tattletown everything.

68
00:03:14,599 --> 00:03:16,719
He can't. They came up in osmad set and they

69
00:03:16,759 --> 00:03:18,400
were just like they were like, are you done yet?

70
00:03:20,439 --> 00:03:21,199
How are you doing?

71
00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,199
Speaker 2: I'm doing great? Uh. The weather finally, like I don't

72
00:03:24,199 --> 00:03:28,000
really have an anecdote. I enjoyed yours. The weather's good

73
00:03:28,039 --> 00:03:30,159
now like the sun has been out, We're gonna get

74
00:03:30,159 --> 00:03:35,199
some seventy degree days. Spring training has started, which is

75
00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:39,360
always like it coincides with the weather. Uh, and that

76
00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,639
just like my mood get. I don't think I have

77
00:03:41,719 --> 00:03:44,840
seasonal effective disorder, but like when the sun starts to

78
00:03:44,879 --> 00:03:47,560
finally come out, like towards the end of February, I

79
00:03:47,599 --> 00:03:50,000
really do like get a spike in mood that kind

80
00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,800
of persists like through August. So I like, I don't know.

81
00:03:53,879 --> 00:03:58,439
I think I'm an undiagnosed seasonal effective disorder sufferer that

82
00:03:58,599 --> 00:03:59,560
is really on the.

83
00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,039
Speaker 1: Upswing right now, Which is funny because I have a

84
00:04:02,039 --> 00:04:04,000
scouting report of you as a co host in my

85
00:04:04,159 --> 00:04:08,479
Google spreadsheet. It's like Grant Excellent podcast with late February

86
00:04:08,479 --> 00:04:09,360
through early August.

87
00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, we all have our heart and cold months. You

88
00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:14,199
just gotta find You got to catch me at the

89
00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:14,680
right time.

90
00:04:14,879 --> 00:04:16,879
Speaker 1: I should have known the weather was turning when you

91
00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,480
logged on. It didn't look absolutely miserable to be here.

92
00:04:21,079 --> 00:04:23,279
Speaker 2: Natural light coming through the window behind me. That's a

93
00:04:23,399 --> 00:04:26,319
huge That's hasn't been the case for like months.

94
00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,720
Speaker 1: I love it. The rookie stock report though, excuse me,

95
00:04:29,759 --> 00:04:33,199
the sophomore stock report though, grant any, Like, how do

96
00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,600
you evaluate sophomores, like when you're looking at, oh am

97
00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,519
I investing more stock in them? Or like our stock

98
00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:41,399
up stock down? Like what is your approach when the

99
00:04:41,439 --> 00:04:45,160
baseline is just that one year of basketball we've seen.

100
00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:49,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely found myself trying a little harder because

101
00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,439
with rookies, if we're you know, how do they look

102
00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,279
three months into their careers or whatever, we almost just

103
00:04:55,319 --> 00:04:57,920
stop ourselves and say, like it's too early to decide

104
00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,399
almost anything. And I wanted to to do it differently

105
00:05:01,439 --> 00:05:03,480
with sophomores because we have a full year and now,

106
00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,600
you know, over half of a second. And I still

107
00:05:06,639 --> 00:05:09,480
caught myself like just being way too declarative, like, oh

108
00:05:09,519 --> 00:05:12,040
this guy's never gonna do X or because this guy

109
00:05:12,079 --> 00:05:14,800
can't do why right now? His ceiling is here, Like

110
00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,120
I definitely still fall into that. So I think the

111
00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,519
thing to remember here for listeners and really talking to

112
00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,079
ourselves is that it's still some of these guys are

113
00:05:25,079 --> 00:05:29,279
like twenty some just turn twenty one. It's still possible

114
00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:31,879
that they surprise us with growth trajectories that are just

115
00:05:31,959 --> 00:05:37,279
like not even remotely foreseeable right now. At the same time,

116
00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:39,759
I think we do need to like flag some stuff

117
00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:42,360
if there are certain deficiencies or certain like things guys

118
00:05:42,399 --> 00:05:45,160
are excelling at. But I'm gonna try really hard to

119
00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,319
keep in mind that this is still less than two

120
00:05:47,399 --> 00:05:49,920
years of experience and we can't like shut the door

121
00:05:49,959 --> 00:05:52,480
on certain things, even though I know I'm gonna slip

122
00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:52,879
into that.

123
00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:54,519
Speaker 1: And it also it tends to be more of a

124
00:05:54,759 --> 00:05:56,480
because the way we're gonna structure this is there's like

125
00:05:56,519 --> 00:05:58,480
a handful of sophomores that we just really wanted to

126
00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,360
zero going on, and then we'll go through like other

127
00:06:00,759 --> 00:06:02,560
briefer ones. But it tends to be on the ones

128
00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:04,199
that you're focusing on for the most part. If he's

129
00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,720
like more of a positive exercise. And this is also

130
00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,519
for me. It's you know how Brian Windhors calls it

131
00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:11,959
that first Max, the fun Max. These are like the

132
00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,680
fun evaluations because I feel like for rookie and sophomores,

133
00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,720
you have the license to just really focus on the

134
00:06:17,759 --> 00:06:19,879
eye test or like the vibes or what you actually

135
00:06:19,879 --> 00:06:22,040
think rather than you know, like he's only shooting thirty

136
00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,040
nine percent on floaters, but I still believe in it,

137
00:06:24,319 --> 00:06:25,759
And you can't really do that with someone who's been

138
00:06:25,759 --> 00:06:27,040
in the league for like four or five.

139
00:06:26,959 --> 00:06:29,759
Speaker 2: Years totally, you're still you're still talking about It's just

140
00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,160
like draft evaluations, where it's like you get numbers here

141
00:06:33,199 --> 00:06:34,920
and you get eye tests there, and you can just

142
00:06:34,959 --> 00:06:37,240
get away with caring about the eye test more the

143
00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:38,120
younger player is.

144
00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,800
Speaker 1: We begin with probably the worst sophomore of this class,

145
00:06:41,879 --> 00:06:44,879
Victor women Yama. He will not be playing again this season,

146
00:06:44,879 --> 00:06:48,360
though that's a bummer because of deep vein thrombosis in

147
00:06:48,399 --> 00:06:51,639
his right shoulder, which, just to echo the Spurs believe

148
00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:53,519
that this is a one off thing, and you know,

149
00:06:53,639 --> 00:06:57,000
here's hoping, Uh, I don't. I don't have anything to

150
00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:58,680
add about his defense, so like I don't want to

151
00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,120
spend a ton of time, but he's like equal parts

152
00:07:01,199 --> 00:07:05,079
just disruptor, the terrent runaway Defensive Player of the Year.

153
00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,399
I will say before kind of get into what I've

154
00:07:07,439 --> 00:07:09,959
noticed on offense from him this year, did you kind

155
00:07:09,959 --> 00:07:12,720
of see Grant in the aftermath of now we know

156
00:07:12,759 --> 00:07:14,439
he's not gonna be eligible to win Defensive Player of

157
00:07:14,439 --> 00:07:17,480
the Year, there was some pretzel twisting or just questionable

158
00:07:17,519 --> 00:07:20,439
framing of he never deserved to win it, like this

159
00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,639
is just the media pushing. Look at where the Spurs

160
00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,680
rank defensively in points loud per possession. I'm just like,

161
00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,800
I don't know how you watch what like or the

162
00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,040
watch Victor women Yama and think he's only his blocks.

163
00:07:32,959 --> 00:07:39,360
Speaker 2: On the Yeah, you know, he's absolutely if what if

164
00:07:39,399 --> 00:07:41,480
he were what if he were only his blocks? Even

165
00:07:41,519 --> 00:07:43,639
then he's still better at that than anybody, And it's

166
00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,040
not like they're empty because you can cite all the

167
00:07:46,079 --> 00:07:49,279
other stats of like feel will, percentage defense at the rim.

168
00:07:49,639 --> 00:07:51,560
The thing that gets tricky, I think, and maybe this

169
00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,480
is where that pushback came from, is like, unless you're

170
00:07:54,519 --> 00:07:58,439
really watching every possession, you don't get the sense of

171
00:07:58,879 --> 00:08:01,959
like just how much he he deters like how many

172
00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,519
reconsiderations he forces, Like how many types of shots just

173
00:08:06,319 --> 00:08:09,079
are no longer like allowed to take place just because

174
00:08:09,079 --> 00:08:12,360
he's there, Like that's there's probably some catch all thing

175
00:08:12,399 --> 00:08:16,439
that's gonna that covers that somewhere. But like, I really

176
00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,040
do think you're not this is man. It's order to

177
00:08:20,079 --> 00:08:22,079
take like a minute into this for to get real

178
00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,279
high and mighty, but like you're just not paying attention.

179
00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,120
If if you think he's just his blocks, like that's

180
00:08:28,199 --> 00:08:29,519
that's pretty straightforward.

181
00:08:29,879 --> 00:08:32,080
Speaker 1: That's a hot take. Yeah, but I agree with it.

182
00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,559
The offense, I think he's made a lot of strides there,

183
00:08:35,759 --> 00:08:37,519
and I think if you you dig into something like

184
00:08:37,639 --> 00:08:40,039
the fact that he increased his rim finishing from seventy

185
00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,360
percent to seventy six percent is just stupid. I mean,

186
00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,279
he's seven four, seven three whatever, seven eight at this

187
00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,879
point whatever, same height as Big Bird. I think, right,

188
00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:52,919
he's seven eight. That is just it's incredible. I'd liked

189
00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,320
you look at his pull up efficiency that is actually

190
00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,360
down from last year, but he's increased his efficiency on

191
00:08:58,399 --> 00:09:01,519
above the break threes and range shots in general. So

192
00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:03,879
when you're just looking at all jumpers last year, his

193
00:09:03,919 --> 00:09:07,080
effective field goal percentage which for anyone who might not know,

194
00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,039
that measures two and three point efficiency together. So his

195
00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,639
effective field goal percentage on all jumpers last year as

196
00:09:12,639 --> 00:09:15,720
a rookie forty three point three. As a sophomore, that's

197
00:09:15,759 --> 00:09:18,159
up the forty nine point two. So that's kind of

198
00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,000
just a pretty big increase. And I think some people

199
00:09:21,039 --> 00:09:25,159
will always have a problem with his shot selection or

200
00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,279
the fact that maybe he's not operating in the interior more.

201
00:09:28,919 --> 00:09:30,960
I don't. I think that this is someone who, for

202
00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:32,559
the most part, is just like a seven and a

203
00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,559
half foot wing basically. But to that end I mentioned

204
00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:38,799
the rim finishing has gotten better. I think the screening

205
00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,279
from him has gotten better. And it's not like maybe

206
00:09:41,279 --> 00:09:44,279
there is Esthetically it doesn't look like there's this exponential

207
00:09:44,279 --> 00:09:46,559
increase in strength, but the fact that he's able to

208
00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:48,879
do that when his frame is not really like kind

209
00:09:48,879 --> 00:09:51,000
of the separation he can create or not being afraid

210
00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,639
to connect on these screens. I think that's gotten better

211
00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:57,720
from him. And I honestly think maybe where I feel

212
00:09:59,039 --> 00:10:01,639
where he's shown the most improvement, and I'm curious if

213
00:10:01,639 --> 00:10:05,559
you agree, is just the quality of his passes, And

214
00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:07,159
I don't that might be the game that I feel

215
00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:08,960
like the part of his game that flies under the

216
00:10:09,039 --> 00:10:12,799
radar the most, he is more poised in traffic, He's

217
00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,639
more deliberate when he's getting ball screens and coming around them.

218
00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:17,960
It feels like it doesn't feel like I would argue

219
00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,960
that he definitely does have better circular vision of the

220
00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,200
entire floor when he's in the middle of it or

221
00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,559
when he's at a standstill than he did last year.

222
00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:30,120
Just a lot more smarter live dribble passes. Feels like

223
00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:34,159
maybe he's not trying the like the more bombastic ones,

224
00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,080
which is fine, but like he can still throw those.

225
00:10:36,519 --> 00:10:40,000
The turnovers are down, the turnover percentages down, he can

226
00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,000
still sort of dribble just like or spin right into

227
00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,000
the help, and that's how he'll get a lot of

228
00:10:45,039 --> 00:10:48,679
his turnovers. I think that could potentially always be a

229
00:10:48,759 --> 00:10:51,879
quote unquote issue for him, just because I've compared it

230
00:10:51,919 --> 00:10:54,879
to this. He is so tall, it's like me or

231
00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,240
you trying to dribble a tennis ball. So it's like

232
00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,320
it's just like, so the size of the ball might

233
00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,240
be offer him, but then just the distance that needs

234
00:11:01,279 --> 00:11:04,360
to travel from the floor to his let's say, his waist,

235
00:11:04,799 --> 00:11:07,200
it's just like it's so ridiculous that there's always maybe

236
00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:10,039
gonna be some turnover issues there. But I think ultimately

237
00:11:10,759 --> 00:11:14,639
the fact that he feels more well rounded offensively is

238
00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:18,159
like a really big deal and there is I'll close here.

239
00:11:18,399 --> 00:11:21,480
He is just worth any sort of adjective that you

240
00:11:21,519 --> 00:11:24,360
think is too hyperbolic for Victor Womenyama and his future

241
00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,480
is just not do.

242
00:11:26,399 --> 00:11:29,799
Speaker 2: You think so? Part of the appeal of Chris Paul

243
00:11:29,879 --> 00:11:32,080
being there this year was that, well, okay, whom Mignon

244
00:11:32,279 --> 00:11:35,759
is gonna get, however many spoon fed lobs or like

245
00:11:35,799 --> 00:11:39,240
things will just be simpler for him. This is to me, like,

246
00:11:39,279 --> 00:11:42,960
would you agree that among the many you know, bummers

247
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,440
of not seeing him down the stretch of this year

248
00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,279
is like, well, what does he look like with the

249
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,159
point guard like fox? That isn't just the like every

250
00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,960
single walk it up like run the play like like

251
00:11:56,039 --> 00:11:58,200
that that is you know, more of it cuts off

252
00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,120
the ball, like really played off the bonus and some

253
00:12:00,159 --> 00:12:02,679
of their best sets like really kind of empowered the

254
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,759
big to be more of a facilitator. Like do you

255
00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,159
think that ultimately when bin Yama is gonna be that tight?

256
00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:11,519
Like you can't. I guess you can't be everything, but

257
00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:13,879
it looks like he's definitely just the floor stretcher that's

258
00:12:13,879 --> 00:12:16,480
gonna mess defenses up because he's gonna shoot ten threes

259
00:12:16,519 --> 00:12:18,919
a game or whatever and have to be guarded by

260
00:12:18,919 --> 00:12:22,120
a big But do you see enough of the passing

261
00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:26,120
development you're talking about to envision him as like someone

262
00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,360
that's getting it at the elbow and is like, you know,

263
00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,879
dumping it down or like having guards run off of him,

264
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,559
or or like playing that kind of role too. Because

265
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,279
the height there, we see jokicch use it to his advantage.

266
00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,440
Do you just you have passing angles that other guys

267
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,120
don't just because you're over the top of everything. Do

268
00:12:41,159 --> 00:12:43,159
you think that might be part of his game based

269
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:43,679
on this year?

270
00:12:45,279 --> 00:12:46,600
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's ever gonna to me. I

271
00:12:46,639 --> 00:12:48,320
don't know if it's gonna be a huge part. I

272
00:12:48,399 --> 00:12:51,600
wonder if if he was surrounded by maybe better spacing

273
00:12:51,639 --> 00:12:53,679
in general, would that be something that they kind of

274
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,519
featured him more of. I guess he's capable of doing it.

275
00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,360
Would you worry though about we're gonna use him kind

276
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,679
of like Yokic and he's not built like Jokic to

277
00:13:01,759 --> 00:13:04,559
have like that same let's say strength level or girth

278
00:13:04,639 --> 00:13:06,399
or whatever. Is that something you even want to see

279
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,039
him doing in like high volume?

280
00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think probably not as like a first choice.

281
00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,879
I think your first choice is you do just treat

282
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,039
him like a wing that sort of always is guarded

283
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,360
by a mismatch because you put a conventional big on

284
00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,039
him and in space. I think that's a tough ask

285
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,120
as he gets, you know, quicker and stronger, but like

286
00:13:25,159 --> 00:13:29,399
you really I think you really could station him closer

287
00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:33,159
to the basket and like maybe it's a I guess

288
00:13:33,159 --> 00:13:35,799
that's all just to say that, like we saw one

289
00:13:35,919 --> 00:13:38,559
new dimension of like, Okay, I'm pretty sure he can

290
00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,519
just be a high volume three point threat. That's but

291
00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,879
I don't feel like that's like, oh, that's definitely what

292
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,559
he's going to be offensively going forward. I think like

293
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,519
that can be it, but I still think what he

294
00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,360
showed this year, I agree the passing vision is like

295
00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:57,559
it's legit. It might just be something where depending on

296
00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,799
the matchup, he can be the most devas dating spacer

297
00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,639
or the most devastating elbow hub or the most like

298
00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,240
you name it. I think the options have only broadened.

299
00:14:06,279 --> 00:14:09,120
I think as as as he's you know, I guess

300
00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:10,360
concluded his second.

301
00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,679
Speaker 1: Year what would be interesting there too? And I was

302
00:14:12,759 --> 00:14:15,240
just looking his like he does rate better in the

303
00:14:15,279 --> 00:14:17,240
post this year than he did last year, but it's

304
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,679
just still not like a monster part of his game.

305
00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:21,519
And he's, by the way, the big thing. And I

306
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:23,440
like because I focus on the jump shot stuff, like

307
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:27,360
his self created shot making efficiency is just way higher

308
00:14:27,399 --> 00:14:29,879
than it was last year too. But you know what's

309
00:14:29,879 --> 00:14:32,159
interesting is could you envision him being and like this

310
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:34,399
might be a better when you're looking at the body

311
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,519
type comp of how we saw porzingis more so like

312
00:14:37,519 --> 00:14:39,559
sometimes in Boston but a lot of the times in Washington,

313
00:14:39,639 --> 00:14:41,879
Like maybe he's not. I think he's a better passer

314
00:14:41,879 --> 00:14:43,519
than prezingis, so he could do that, but like you're

315
00:14:43,519 --> 00:14:46,159
stationing him higher up where maybe it's less physical, and

316
00:14:46,279 --> 00:14:48,639
like if he's just someone who could catch it turn

317
00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,000
around and like just I mean he can definitely shoot

318
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,240
over anybody that might if you're looking for more it's

319
00:14:54,279 --> 00:14:56,440
not even traditional stuff, but if you're looking for more

320
00:14:56,519 --> 00:14:59,559
just kind of those block ish touches, that might be

321
00:14:59,559 --> 00:15:01,159
a way to the figure to use him there.

322
00:15:01,399 --> 00:15:03,759
Speaker 2: And I think like two things that I believe will

323
00:15:03,799 --> 00:15:06,679
come for him. Are like Porzingis actually Porzingis is lean

324
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,200
but like he's got a strong base, like he's harder

325
00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,039
to move. And the other thing is his foul drawing

326
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,320
craft for a big guy is like way up there,

327
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,440
because that that's one of the keys to Porzingis's you know,

328
00:15:17,519 --> 00:15:20,679
mismatched domination. Is he just like the second he feels

329
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,399
the hand on the arm, he rips through and goes

330
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,519
up and he's he's drawing free throws on like what

331
00:15:24,559 --> 00:15:28,159
would be thirteen foot shot attempts. Like Wemby can absolutely

332
00:15:28,519 --> 00:15:30,960
add both of those things. So yeah, I can see

333
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:32,440
if you don't want him to get beat up. The

334
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,080
one the one thing I don't want really for him

335
00:15:35,159 --> 00:15:37,440
is like you're dumping it into him on the block,

336
00:15:37,519 --> 00:15:39,639
Like that's the least interesting way to use him.

337
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,759
Speaker 1: And do you could you mentioned free throws? Does it

338
00:15:42,799 --> 00:15:45,120
worry you at all? That like he's just not generating

339
00:15:45,159 --> 00:15:47,399
a ton for someone his size. Where his free throw

340
00:15:47,559 --> 00:15:50,519
excuse me, his free throw a temporrate has actually dropped precipitously. Yeah,

341
00:15:50,639 --> 00:15:55,440
compared to last year. I don't, I I don't I

342
00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,320
don't want to say I don't care, like that's something

343
00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,000
that but I if he's drawing a ton of foul,

344
00:16:00,399 --> 00:16:01,879
you would want it to be like kind of in

345
00:16:01,919 --> 00:16:04,360
the vein of Kevin Durant or the way that Porzingis

346
00:16:04,399 --> 00:16:07,080
would do it, rather than post ops are like these

347
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,840
bull Dozing draws. Or he's banging into everybody.

348
00:16:10,519 --> 00:16:13,440
Speaker 2: Well and he too, like normally you would encourage every

349
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:17,200
player to like seek contact, but he has such unique

350
00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:21,440
physical advantages that like he can actually you could justify

351
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,639
telling him avoid it, but like use your quickness and

352
00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,519
use your length to just get angles that no one

353
00:16:27,559 --> 00:16:29,600
can cover, as opposed to like, well if you just

354
00:16:29,679 --> 00:16:32,360
bang into somebody, are you really like leveraging any of

355
00:16:32,399 --> 00:16:34,799
the things that you're great at? I don't know. Eventually maybe,

356
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,279
but right now I think I'm not bothered at all

357
00:16:37,279 --> 00:16:39,720
by the free throw stuff. He makes his free throws.

358
00:16:39,799 --> 00:16:41,519
That's something he's really good at.

359
00:16:41,519 --> 00:16:43,919
Speaker 1: That. All Right, So I have a really tough question

360
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:45,799
for you here. Sure, I'm just going to take a

361
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,440
deep breath before I ask it. Stock up or stock

362
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,000
down for Victor wibbin Yama.

363
00:16:50,399 --> 00:16:52,799
Speaker 2: This will be controversial. I'm gonna say stock up. I

364
00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:54,519
think I think he's looking pretty good.

365
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,960
Speaker 1: Same here dude, would you is there any justification from

366
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,639
high saying stock down because is it? Oh? Is this

367
00:17:01,679 --> 00:17:04,160
someone who's always going to be dealing with something? And

368
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,359
I would I don't want to answer my own question,

369
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,400
but the fact that it's this, not that the blood

370
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,440
clot is better, but it wasn't oh sore left knee

371
00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,160
or something is I don't really think that you, at

372
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:19,400
least right now, you can't lend like you can't assign

373
00:17:19,519 --> 00:17:22,279
value to him missing the rest of this season with

374
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,440
the deep vein thrombocious in his shoulder.

375
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,039
Speaker 2: No, it'd be like the same thing as saying like

376
00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:29,720
because Brandon Ingram had it once, Oh, we're really you know,

377
00:17:29,759 --> 00:17:32,039
Brandingham has had other injuries. It's like it just isn't

378
00:17:32,079 --> 00:17:34,599
the same. Like if he'd had like a foot sprain,

379
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,640
like anything with the feet or the knees or the back,

380
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:38,640
that's a problem.

381
00:17:38,759 --> 00:17:39,519
Speaker 1: But he hasn't.

382
00:17:39,559 --> 00:17:41,720
Speaker 2: Like he played seventy one games last year, he was

383
00:17:41,759 --> 00:17:44,519
really durable this year. I got no concerns on that front.

384
00:17:44,519 --> 00:17:46,200
Speaker 1: And he was caught. He didn't I did it. Actually,

385
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:47,519
I guess it did look like he was hitting a

386
00:17:47,559 --> 00:17:49,240
wally into the All Star break. But now we know

387
00:17:49,279 --> 00:17:51,680
why rightly, thirty three minutes per game. That was the

388
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:53,559
other thing, Well, is he ever gonna let him? When?

389
00:17:53,599 --> 00:17:55,359
Is he gonna play thirty plus this year?

390
00:17:55,480 --> 00:18:00,920
Speaker 2: That's what he did? Now this is your guy. Yeah,

391
00:18:01,319 --> 00:18:05,880
I mean, I love so we have to I think

392
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,720
we have to just address like it's been fifteen games

393
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,240
this year. So the small sample thing applies to everything

394
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:16,240
we'll say about Ched Holmgren. I think the even knowing that,

395
00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,599
the way I would frame it is like, if you

396
00:18:18,839 --> 00:18:22,160
just went down the list of Okay, what would we

397
00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,240
like to see from this guy in his asterisk sophomore

398
00:18:26,279 --> 00:18:29,680
season because he did miss a full is full which

399
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,200
should have been his rookie year, and I guess what

400
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:33,680
you might say is like, the top thing we'd like

401
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,599
to see is availability, and we have not gotten that.

402
00:18:35,759 --> 00:18:37,319
So that's two out of three years that have been

403
00:18:37,319 --> 00:18:41,519
compromised by injury. That's that's a concern. Obviously. I don't

404
00:18:41,559 --> 00:18:43,079
really know what to do with that other than to

405
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,400
just say that's a thing, and I guess you priced

406
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,400
that in, but beyond that, you'd say, well, all right,

407
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,240
so on this team in particular and going forward, love

408
00:18:52,279 --> 00:18:55,480
to see increased stretch like that is just where he's

409
00:18:55,519 --> 00:18:58,759
going to be most effective as as like an offensive

410
00:18:58,759 --> 00:19:02,680
component three point percentages up from thirty seven to thirty

411
00:19:02,759 --> 00:19:05,000
nine percent. You'd say, well, I'd like to see a

412
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,640
little more rebounding, especially on the Thunder team. Rebound rates up,

413
00:19:07,839 --> 00:19:10,759
block rates up, like all a fewer minutes per game,

414
00:19:10,799 --> 00:19:13,720
free throw rate up, like he's doing it again fifteen games,

415
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,480
so like a shitty three game stretch could change all that.

416
00:19:16,559 --> 00:19:18,759
But just based on what we've got so far, I

417
00:19:18,799 --> 00:19:22,720
think he's basically just checking all the boxes of what

418
00:19:22,759 --> 00:19:25,160
you would have hoped statistically and from like a role

419
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:30,680
perspective to see. So I just think, like the question is,

420
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,119
and we're gonna address it on Friday. It's really hard

421
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,839
for me to I want you to appreciate what this

422
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,319
means me saying it is like deciding between who's more

423
00:19:40,319 --> 00:19:42,559
important to the Thunder's big picture plans? Is it him

424
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,079
or is it Jalen Williams. And like, I think Jalen

425
00:19:45,079 --> 00:19:49,359
Williams is great, but check did you know that should

426
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,079
we talk about Jayleen Williams for like a good like

427
00:19:51,079 --> 00:19:53,440
a tight half hour. Would you want to just like

428
00:19:53,599 --> 00:19:56,480
set a baseline?

429
00:19:57,039 --> 00:19:57,240
Speaker 1: Yeah?

430
00:19:57,319 --> 00:19:58,880
Speaker 2: No, I don't. I don't really know what else to

431
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,920
add because the small samples stuff really compromises it. But

432
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,839
I think Holmgren has picked up where he left off

433
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:06,640
last year, where he was like one of the five

434
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,279
best defensive players in the league and just showed the

435
00:20:09,279 --> 00:20:13,079
potential to be this hugely valuable offensive like kind of

436
00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:17,480
secondary option with Again, like we talked about this over

437
00:20:17,519 --> 00:20:21,079
the offseason, Like he added a lot more off the

438
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,480
dribble stuff during over the course of last season. We've

439
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,279
seen some of it this year. I just think he's

440
00:20:28,319 --> 00:20:30,160
he's right on track for what you would have wanted

441
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,319
if you're an optimistic Thunder fan. I don't I don't

442
00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:34,839
really have I don't know what the negatives are other

443
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,000
than the obvious of like, ah, man, I just can

444
00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:38,119
he please stay on the.

445
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,720
Speaker 1: Floor, Which that's a big deal when we're talking about

446
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:43,839
like two of three years of there being struggles there.

447
00:20:44,279 --> 00:20:46,480
I'm this isn't me calling you out, but I found

448
00:20:46,519 --> 00:20:48,759
what you said interesting. We worked on a project together

449
00:20:48,799 --> 00:20:51,880
for bleacher Report, and when I was reading what you

450
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,720
had written. When I was reading what you had written, yeah,

451
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,680
you kind of just I almost say you casually threw

452
00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:59,400
it in there. But you said chet Holgren is already

453
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,480
a better defense than Rudy Gobert. Yeah, can you get

454
00:21:02,519 --> 00:21:03,960
into that a little bit more well?

455
00:21:04,079 --> 00:21:07,039
Speaker 2: So, I think the block rate stuff and the rim

456
00:21:07,079 --> 00:21:09,720
defense stuff. I think again we're dealing with small samples.

457
00:21:09,759 --> 00:21:13,839
Like it's close enough that you can say, like, yeah,

458
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,759
all right in terms of rim protection. Sure, if you're

459
00:21:16,759 --> 00:21:19,559
talking about mobility, like I think you got to give

460
00:21:19,559 --> 00:21:21,759
that to Chet too, just talking and you're not really

461
00:21:21,799 --> 00:21:24,200
asking either of them to defend on the perimeter a ton.

462
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,119
You got to conceive that Chet is just more mobile

463
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,680
still at this stage. And then if it's like I

464
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,680
think you was making that argument in terms of just

465
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:35,559
like who's a better player flat out, and it's like, well,

466
00:21:35,559 --> 00:21:37,319
if you're going to talk about offense, then we're not.

467
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,680
We're done with the conversation, right, Chet has like real

468
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,279
offensive dimensions. But I do think you know some of

469
00:21:42,319 --> 00:21:47,279
the advanced metch like DPM. Again, that's small samples. Chet's

470
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,240
right there at or above Rudy. I don't have the

471
00:21:49,319 --> 00:21:51,920
numbers in front of me, but I think you can

472
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,720
make that case pretty comfortably. Probably wasn't true last year,

473
00:21:54,759 --> 00:21:57,519
although I think the numbers might have been closer last

474
00:21:57,599 --> 00:22:00,160
year than you'd want to admit if you're a if

475
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,079
you're big on Gobert. But yeah, I think given the

476
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,960
age difference, given the mobility difference, given the fairly negligible

477
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,640
rim protection stuff like I think chet right now, I

478
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:12,519
would put it this way, if he had played enough

479
00:22:12,559 --> 00:22:15,240
to qualify, it's hard for me to imagine we wouldn't

480
00:22:15,279 --> 00:22:17,119
have him right smack in the middle of like the

481
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,759
mobile Jaron Jackson, you know who's dpoy Actually, now that

482
00:22:20,799 --> 00:22:23,160
Wemby's out, he might even be the guy I picked first.

483
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,440
Speaker 1: Well, he would have won if Wemby got in, because

484
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,200
just the thunder have an all time great defense and

485
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,519
if he had qualified it just it would have gone right.

486
00:22:30,599 --> 00:22:32,160
I don't even I think that's how voters would have

487
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,519
looked at it, do you. I just don't not that

488
00:22:34,559 --> 00:22:36,200
I don't know what to make of his offense. I

489
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,759
want to make that clear. What is the thing that

490
00:22:38,799 --> 00:22:41,160
needs to happen more? If he's like because I find

491
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,519
myself the drive rate is about the same compared to

492
00:22:44,599 --> 00:22:47,000
last year. The three point attempt like the number of

493
00:22:47,039 --> 00:22:49,359
three point attempts permitt it. I think it's actually lower

494
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,240
than last year, about the same as last year. I'm

495
00:22:52,279 --> 00:22:54,880
still trying to figure out like what his calling card

496
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:56,720
is going to be on the offensive, which I think

497
00:22:56,759 --> 00:22:58,559
is mission critical if you're trying to view him as

498
00:22:58,839 --> 00:23:01,000
let's not even say a hub because I don't envision

499
00:23:01,599 --> 00:23:04,079
Oklahoma City really ever using him like in the let's

500
00:23:04,079 --> 00:23:06,240
go in a half cor let's throw the ball downloaded chet,

501
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:07,880
but just more so that if he's going to be

502
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,079
a secondary driver of offense, I think the thing for

503
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,079
me is one I like to see him take threes

504
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:14,480
and more volume, Yes I would, But I think the

505
00:23:14,519 --> 00:23:17,319
bigger thing for me is maybe the drive rate is fine,

506
00:23:17,319 --> 00:23:18,880
but like can we see a little bit more passing

507
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:20,319
out of those situations.

508
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,119
Speaker 2: I think it's a combo of those two. I think

509
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:23,960
the three point stuff is like, yeah, we want more

510
00:23:24,039 --> 00:23:28,319
volume from everybody and him included, but like he is

511
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,720
already someone that like you're getting yelled at if you

512
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,319
let him alone on the perimeter, Like that's as you know,

513
00:23:35,599 --> 00:23:37,960
the defense is like they're paying attention to him in

514
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,519
ways that it's like, okay, that's in terms of like

515
00:23:40,599 --> 00:23:43,039
what that means for our offense as a whole, Like

516
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,279
he's doing that at a level that's like Okay, he's

517
00:23:46,319 --> 00:23:48,720
a problem. We can't ignore him. We actually have to

518
00:23:48,759 --> 00:23:51,680
really devote resources to not losing track of him. It

519
00:23:51,759 --> 00:23:55,880
has to be just continued facility putting the ball on

520
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,559
the floor because he's going to be closed out on

521
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:00,920
hard because it's often going to be big guys running

522
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,799
at him, beating that first guy and then not having

523
00:24:03,839 --> 00:24:06,000
a higher turnover rate than assist rate, which he does

524
00:24:06,039 --> 00:24:07,799
have right now, he's turning it over more than he's

525
00:24:07,799 --> 00:24:10,200
getting assists, So like he doesn't need to be diming

526
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,680
everybody up. But it needs to be two dribbles to

527
00:24:12,759 --> 00:24:15,640
draw foul, two dribbles swing to the other corner like

528
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,079
that kind of stuff. That that type of feel on

529
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,079
the ball needs to be better, which again I think,

530
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:27,920
like he's played fewer than ninety career games. Yeah you

531
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,319
know that. I think if you're you talk all the

532
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,680
time about or you hear all the time about like

533
00:24:32,799 --> 00:24:36,640
just seeing pictures, like seeing seeing the same situation enough

534
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,680
times to where it just becomes rope, like how you

535
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,359
handle it. They're not asking him to make like advance reads.

536
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,920
It's like, you know, beat the guy on the close out,

537
00:24:44,039 --> 00:24:46,359
make one quick decision. I do think he's going to

538
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,640
be good at that, but right now he just actually

539
00:24:48,759 --> 00:24:48,960
is not.

540
00:24:49,799 --> 00:24:52,640
Speaker 1: He's done a lot better this season at drawing such

541
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,720
a small sample size, but he's he has like a

542
00:24:54,799 --> 00:24:59,000
higher percentage of his fouls being drawn are shooting foul percentages.

543
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,480
And yet I still I don't know any like he's

544
00:25:01,519 --> 00:25:04,039
been fouled on drives. I don't necessarily trust him. Who

545
00:25:04,039 --> 00:25:06,359
would you trust more right now? Finishing through contact him

546
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:07,000
or Evan Mobley?

547
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 2: Oh mobiley, Like yeah, not close.

548
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 1: I'm still kind of waiting for him to make that

549
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:16,119
like kind of but uh yeah, there's no The only

550
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,039
thing with him would be availability is like if you're

551
00:25:18,079 --> 00:25:19,799
really gonna harp on something like yeaid.

552
00:25:19,559 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 2: I'd still go stock up, just because I think I

553
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:26,920
think we've seen enough like holding steady and incremental improvement

554
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,720
at some of the some of the like secondary things.

555
00:25:31,079 --> 00:25:34,400
I'm I'm I think the fact that like he just

556
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,079
took a nasty fall, like what do you want you know,

557
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,079
and like he fell right on his hip like that,

558
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,519
maybe that doesn't bust everybody's hip like it did for him,

559
00:25:42,519 --> 00:25:45,680
but it's like it's not like he had another foot injury.

560
00:25:46,079 --> 00:25:50,680
So I'm I'm dismissing. I'm not dismissing discounting the durability

561
00:25:50,799 --> 00:25:52,559
A little concern is just like a little bit.

562
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 1: I'm tempted to go stock neutrol just to say that,

563
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,960
but I he's shown so much over the past season

564
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,480
and change just as like an actual player, I'm gonna

565
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,759
go stock up as well for him. Next up on

566
00:26:03,799 --> 00:26:08,640
our board is Scoot Henderson, which he's fascinating grant in

567
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,960
the sense that if you just look at the numbers

568
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,920
compared to like the counting stats per Lesu, there's not

569
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,240
a ton of difference here. If you watch Scoot and like, yeah,

570
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,160
you could split up the season where he goes on

571
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,279
that heater and it looks great. But I think the

572
00:26:21,319 --> 00:26:24,480
best way when you watch him, everything just feels better.

573
00:26:25,079 --> 00:26:27,720
And they were playing, Oh man, what was the game?

574
00:26:27,759 --> 00:26:29,119
It was? It was the game that they lost to

575
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,720
the Lakers, and they come out of it. It's the

576
00:26:31,759 --> 00:26:34,039
first game out of the All Star break. Pretty much

577
00:26:34,079 --> 00:26:37,279
everybody looks awful, with the exception like Donovan Klingen came

578
00:26:37,319 --> 00:26:40,359
to play that game, but Scoot started like oh of

579
00:26:40,799 --> 00:26:42,960
six or oh of seven or something, and I'm watching

580
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,759
him the entire time, like Wow, this guy's gonna be

581
00:26:45,759 --> 00:26:48,000
really good. And I think that's the mark of just like, oh,

582
00:26:48,039 --> 00:26:49,599
this is how much better it looks is he is

583
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,160
missing shots, but they were shots he should have taken.

584
00:26:52,519 --> 00:26:56,119
He wasn't forcing it. His control and poise when he's

585
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,079
on the ball is just way better. And then yes,

586
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,279
the counting staff, you could break it up into a

587
00:27:01,319 --> 00:27:03,400
season and you could find that, okay, like there's sort

588
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,119
of the material changes. But you look at just his scoring.

589
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,359
He was in the eighth percentile of self created scoring

590
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,119
efficiency last year. He's in the sixty fifth. Now, that's

591
00:27:13,279 --> 00:27:16,519
pretty big jump. His rim finishing still touch and go.

592
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:17,880
I think a lot of it kind of has to

593
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,559
do with just takeoff points and angles, but his rim

594
00:27:20,599 --> 00:27:23,799
percentage is still ten points higher than it was last year.

595
00:27:24,319 --> 00:27:26,920
He's more dangerous, like trying to get to that floater,

596
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,680
and you look at this is a big one, like

597
00:27:29,799 --> 00:27:32,839
just on jumpers. His effective field goal percentage as a

598
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,640
rookie forty three point one. That's up to forty nine

599
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,480
point eight this year. And you can even just look at, okay,

600
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,319
the three point percentage is higher. You trust him to

601
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,200
knock down a touch and shoot three. Now I think

602
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,200
his command over the game has gotten way better. On

603
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,319
the ball, I think he's not like I think you

604
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,559
could if you want a hem in haw is the

605
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,279
quality of the passes where it needs to be if

606
00:27:51,279 --> 00:27:53,799
you want a floor general. I think that he's eventually

607
00:27:53,799 --> 00:27:55,200
going to get there. But when you kind of look

608
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,599
at what he's doing in the lane, the patience he

609
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,160
has when he's like going up against traffic just to

610
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,160
handle the decision making, everything feels even though even I

611
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,720
think his turnover percentage might be up, everything just feels.

612
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,759
The fundamentals look, they feel, and they are better. And

613
00:28:11,799 --> 00:28:14,079
so as someone that you need to trust to be

614
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,119
able to hit jumpers whether he's on or off the ball,

615
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,519
or just get into the lane and make things happen,

616
00:28:18,799 --> 00:28:21,599
and maybe you're not necessarily trusting it at the most

617
00:28:21,599 --> 00:28:24,119
deliberate pace where it's like, okay, let's slow things down

618
00:28:24,599 --> 00:28:26,279
in the half court and set him a ball screen,

619
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,720
like there could still be some iffness there. He's gotten

620
00:28:28,759 --> 00:28:31,839
better there too, like especially as a playmaker to me.

621
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,279
And so this is I mean, one, he is working

622
00:28:35,279 --> 00:28:37,759
off an incredibly low baseline from last year, and I

623
00:28:37,799 --> 00:28:41,079
think that helps his stock. But I think if you objectively,

624
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,359
just look at this season. He has had one of

625
00:28:43,359 --> 00:28:47,319
the more encouraging just sophomore campaigns in a vacuum, not

626
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,319
even looking at oh scooged, look at what he was

627
00:28:49,359 --> 00:28:50,599
last year compared to this year.

628
00:28:50,799 --> 00:28:53,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, like for the exact reason you said

629
00:28:53,839 --> 00:28:56,400
his stock is up, just because it was it was

630
00:28:56,559 --> 00:28:59,359
pretty bottomed out as far as you know a player

631
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,519
with his kind of like draft pedigree and profile could

632
00:29:02,599 --> 00:29:06,559
could get. Do you think, like, let's say he had

633
00:29:06,599 --> 00:29:11,440
played at exactly this level in his rookie season, do

634
00:29:11,519 --> 00:29:14,359
you think that would have registered as a disappointment still,

635
00:29:14,599 --> 00:29:17,200
like relative to where he was drafted and what people

636
00:29:17,359 --> 00:29:19,559
what we thought about him, Like if you could time

637
00:29:19,599 --> 00:29:22,200
travel back and he did this as a rookie, so

638
00:29:22,759 --> 00:29:27,960
twelve five and three, like, yeah, fifty five true shooting,

639
00:29:28,039 --> 00:29:30,160
Like that's still not going to you know, blow you away?

640
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,000
Are you how are you feeling about this if it

641
00:29:33,039 --> 00:29:35,960
were his rookie season relative to expectations, Like, you.

642
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,839
Speaker 1: Know, I hope I would be nuanced enough to feel

643
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:40,519
really good about it, because when you look at what

644
00:29:40,599 --> 00:29:42,759
his role has been for the most most part with

645
00:29:42,799 --> 00:29:45,400
the Portland trail Blazers. But I don't I think people

646
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,039
still would have looked at it as a disappointment just

647
00:29:48,039 --> 00:29:50,039
because of where he was drafted. What I mean, we

648
00:29:50,119 --> 00:29:51,880
said some pretty inflammatory things.

649
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,039
Speaker 2: About for sure he was drafted. I think though I

650
00:29:55,279 --> 00:29:58,640
was just saying, I think, like he the difference the

651
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,839
numbers probably wouldn't have cut it. But I think and

652
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,480
whether that's fair or not, whatever, but I do think,

653
00:30:03,519 --> 00:30:08,079
as you pointed out, just you've seen validation of like

654
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,519
oh that was some real quick burst, like man, he

655
00:30:10,559 --> 00:30:13,480
looks strong, or like, oh that was so the suddenness

656
00:30:13,519 --> 00:30:15,759
was there, and like the shots that should be taken

657
00:30:15,839 --> 00:30:20,119
or be you would have last year if again, if

658
00:30:20,119 --> 00:30:22,359
he had done this last year, you would have been

659
00:30:22,359 --> 00:30:24,640
able to say, like I still kind of I see it,

660
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,559
like I get it. I understand why everybody was so

661
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,160
high on him. Where in his actual rookie season, like

662
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,759
those were really few and far between. Forget the numbers,

663
00:30:33,799 --> 00:30:37,440
just like the instances where you could you could understand

664
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,119
the vision of what a lot of people were saying

665
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:39,640
he could be.

666
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,279
Speaker 1: And he kind of showed hints of this, like towards

667
00:30:42,279 --> 00:30:43,680
the end of last year. But like when you're just

668
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,920
looking at some of the things of okay, like thirty

669
00:30:46,039 --> 00:30:48,319
nine point three percent on a pretty good volume of

670
00:30:48,359 --> 00:30:50,799
catch and shoot threes. That's a big deal. The thing

671
00:30:50,839 --> 00:30:52,880
that I think I've struggled with the most, I really

672
00:30:53,319 --> 00:30:56,279
I believe in him as a foundational passer, and I

673
00:30:56,279 --> 00:30:57,759
think when you kind of mentioned like you saw the

674
00:30:57,759 --> 00:31:00,240
blow by speeds, but now I've been most impressed, like

675
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,240
like he might have that and maybe he could use

676
00:31:02,279 --> 00:31:04,599
it even more. But there's also just like the word

677
00:31:04,599 --> 00:31:07,519
I use was like words patients and ployees. I've seen

678
00:31:07,519 --> 00:31:10,000
more of that. Like the game feels like its slowed

679
00:31:10,039 --> 00:31:11,559
down for him, and so he doesn't feel the need

680
00:31:11,599 --> 00:31:14,599
to operate at a constant like am and Thompson operates

681
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,079
at eleven out of ten because that's just what he

682
00:31:17,119 --> 00:31:19,960
should do, Like, doesn't need to do that now, and

683
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,440
like his game wasn't necessarily wired. If I had to

684
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,119
point to an area of concern, I don't know. I'm

685
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,640
intending to default to. The Blazers just aren't built for

686
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,880
him to be better. The finishing around the basket is

687
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,160
really really bad still, and I think a lot of it,

688
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,200
like I said, takeoff points and angles, but I do

689
00:31:38,039 --> 00:31:42,920
like important spacing is nowhere near pristine. I mean his

690
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,000
his rim shot quality, and again I don't know how

691
00:31:45,079 --> 00:31:47,279
much to assign to him where he's in the fourth

692
00:31:47,359 --> 00:31:52,039
percentile of rim shot quality versus the third percentile last year.

693
00:31:52,359 --> 00:31:54,559
But like when you're looking at the personnel around him,

694
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,200
the Blazers have very how many players on the Blazers,

695
00:31:58,279 --> 00:32:00,559
let's flame with this way a way the ball are

696
00:32:00,559 --> 00:32:02,039
considered an above average threat.

697
00:32:02,519 --> 00:32:06,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean what Simon's like, that's it. Yeah, it's

698
00:32:06,119 --> 00:32:08,119
hard to be hard pressed sharp.

699
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,119
Speaker 1: It's not obvious, it's not grant anymore. It's not to

700
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,480
Monti Kamar, even when he's hitting his threes, and so

701
00:32:12,519 --> 00:32:15,200
I really do think that makes his job more difficult.

702
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,160
I think look some of the lineups they've played him in.

703
00:32:17,279 --> 00:32:20,480
I think you could argue like that they've exacerbated that problem.

704
00:32:20,519 --> 00:32:22,200
So I'm willing to give it more time. But when

705
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:23,880
you're kind of looking at how he might react to

706
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,559
contact or he shies away from it, where that's like

707
00:32:26,599 --> 00:32:28,319
where the takeoff stuff was weird, where it's like he's

708
00:32:28,319 --> 00:32:31,359
trying to avoid the contact, it does give me pause.

709
00:32:31,599 --> 00:32:33,559
But for right now, I think I still chalk it

710
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,079
up to like the Blazer's offense, a lot of the

711
00:32:36,079 --> 00:32:37,839
time in the half court, Like that's just not really

712
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,599
built for anyone who's not a capslocked megastar to create

713
00:32:41,799 --> 00:32:46,400
high percentage opportunities at the basket. Yeah, I'm going stock

714
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,799
up here, and I mean if you're going stock down,

715
00:32:49,319 --> 00:32:51,759
not you specifically, if anyone's going stock down on scooed,

716
00:32:51,759 --> 00:32:54,119
I would I mean this without a hint of irony.

717
00:32:54,359 --> 00:32:57,480
I would love to see the justification. But that who

718
00:32:57,519 --> 00:32:58,079
you got next?

719
00:32:58,079 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 2: Grant got another blazer, another our of our, of you,

720
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:06,359
yours and my blazers. Uh. Timani Kamara, so uh, first

721
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,400
of all, like his have you seen his shot chart?

722
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,759
Just like it's one of the funniest shot charts. He

723
00:33:14,799 --> 00:33:17,440
should have come into the league and immediately been like

724
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,640
time traveled back to the twenty like eighteen rockets, where

725
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,519
it's like you only shoot layups and you only shoot

726
00:33:24,559 --> 00:33:27,160
threes and you guard five positions. Like that's just what

727
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,559
this guy is actually.

728
00:33:29,839 --> 00:33:31,839
Speaker 1: I don't know if you saw, well, I haven't told you.

729
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,799
Multiple sources tell me that Tomani Kamara's shot chart acts

730
00:33:34,839 --> 00:33:37,839
as cialis for Daryl Morey at this very moment.

731
00:33:38,079 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 2: So that's a much more succinct way to put with

732
00:33:40,519 --> 00:33:42,000
the point I was trying to make thank you.

733
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: Uh.

734
00:33:42,799 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 2: I think he's just now one of the premier three

735
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:46,480
and D guys in the league. We were like racking

736
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:47,839
our brains over like who are the three and D

737
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:49,920
guys A couple of pods ago, and it's like, yeah,

738
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,519
it's him. It's it's heavier on it's it's lighter on

739
00:33:52,559 --> 00:33:56,400
the three than the deep part. But like he's he's

740
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,519
a fine three point shooter that I think maybe is

741
00:33:59,559 --> 00:34:01,640
another year or so away from this of being like

742
00:34:01,759 --> 00:34:05,519
really seriously guarded. Isn't doing anything else with the ball,

743
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,119
So he really is a true like kind of one

744
00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:11,440
thing offensive type of player. But the one thing he

745
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,360
does is make threes at a decent of clip to

746
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,840
where he can be out there. You know, you'd need

747
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:20,320
real creators. Portland has those. So that's fine. Defensively though,

748
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:25,440
just like he guards everything and that has earned him

749
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,719
the most minutes and most starts of any sophomore. So

750
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,719
like he's that's not just it's not like Portland doesn't

751
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,440
have guys like they can play it. They're they're sneaky deep.

752
00:34:34,519 --> 00:34:37,199
So he's earning all that with like elite role player

753
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,960
type stuff. His matchup time is like illustrative of just

754
00:34:41,039 --> 00:34:44,119
like we'll throw him on anybody. So in order he

755
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:47,199
has spent the most time guarding Devin Booker one and

756
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:52,079
in descending order SGA, James Harden, Anthony Edwards, Dame Fred

757
00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:57,559
van Vliet, Jokic. Sure well, why not Luca Halliburton, Kevin Durant.

758
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,599
Just like who you got, like whoever's whoever is a

759
00:35:00,599 --> 00:35:03,480
threatening scorer, that's who he's gonna guard, and he's gonna

760
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,599
do very well. And I think like he's an extra.

761
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,519
The way I would sum it up is he is

762
00:35:09,559 --> 00:35:14,360
an extremely limited but extremely useful like NBA starter, I think.

763
00:35:14,519 --> 00:35:19,960
And that's I mean, he hinted at being this as

764
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,639
a as a rookie, but like there aren't a whole

765
00:35:23,639 --> 00:35:26,159
lot of guys we're going to talk about. Maybe as

766
00:35:26,199 --> 00:35:28,400
I'm looking down the list, I don't think anybody else

767
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,000
will say, like that guy is a plus starter right

768
00:35:31,039 --> 00:35:33,760
now that could be on on the floor in a

769
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,199
conference finals, like in a fifth man role, Like that's

770
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,119
that's a big deal. So I mean, I feel like

771
00:35:40,119 --> 00:35:42,440
I'm telegraphing where are my stock report's gonna be?

772
00:35:43,079 --> 00:35:45,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I'm horny for Kamar as well. And

773
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,559
I would probably say it might even be a little

774
00:35:47,599 --> 00:35:49,599
bit higher on him offensively than you because I just

775
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,840
comes back to again what the Blazers are doing. But

776
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:53,159
like some of the stuff he's been able to do,

777
00:35:53,199 --> 00:35:54,800
I don't think there's not gonna be a ton of

778
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,079
directionality to them, but like he can have those open

779
00:35:57,079 --> 00:35:59,119
space drives and he's done a better job of passing

780
00:35:59,119 --> 00:36:01,000
out of some of them this year. It feels like,

781
00:36:01,039 --> 00:36:03,239
but like it's not gonna be I'm trying to think

782
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,840
of his offensive Arsenal's like closer to Dorian Finney Smith

783
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,800
than like og Anobi, like where you're not gonna Sae

784
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,920
like ojannaily trying and break guys down off the dribble

785
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:13,840
and some spins, it doesn't always end well. So you

786
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,559
could argue that Kamara playing within himself and the fact

787
00:36:16,559 --> 00:36:19,719
that just he's okay, like you will see him be

788
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:21,559
in different spots on offense, but the fact that he's okay,

789
00:36:21,599 --> 00:36:23,679
like floating out to the corner, lifting up from the corner,

790
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,119
like that's a big deal. Like some players don't, especially

791
00:36:26,159 --> 00:36:28,159
this young, they don't want to do that, especially when

792
00:36:28,159 --> 00:36:30,119
they're trying to get paid. Because he's on that so

793
00:36:30,159 --> 00:36:32,960
they have him dirt cheap next year, and then they

794
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:34,559
have the team option the following year. We'll see if

795
00:36:34,599 --> 00:36:36,800
they decline it and like you know, play the restricted

796
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,800
free agency game. But I just he's so good, like

797
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,280
this is gonna be I don't think he's going to

798
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,280
be a star, Like that would kind of surprise me.

799
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,639
But like when you mentioned an og An Andobi type,

800
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,039
could you see a scenario where he has that type

801
00:36:50,079 --> 00:36:53,800
of just value and reputation around the league or do

802
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:55,719
you think that Ogi was viewed as someone who had

803
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:57,880
significantly more ball skills and that was kind of part

804
00:36:57,880 --> 00:36:58,760
of his mistique.

805
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's weird because like no one would say og

806
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,360
was like like I always feel like his offensive game

807
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,599
was like good enough to where you like you're talking

808
00:37:08,639 --> 00:37:11,760
about like he could attack, he could he could physically

809
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,360
overpower guys, and you know, he could get you. I

810
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,079
think he probably shot a slightly higher volume of threes

811
00:37:17,119 --> 00:37:19,559
and definitely has had some much more efficient three point

812
00:37:19,559 --> 00:37:22,039
shooting seasons. Kamars at just one undred thirty seven percent

813
00:37:22,079 --> 00:37:24,199
this year, So like that's plenty good enough for what

814
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,679
he brings defensively. I think og if he could get

815
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:32,079
to an anenobe level like that's that's probably about the ceiling.

816
00:37:32,159 --> 00:37:34,559
I think the other thing to just you know, throw

817
00:37:34,599 --> 00:37:36,360
a little cold water on it's like he's gonna be

818
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,559
twenty five before the like at you know, in May.

819
00:37:39,639 --> 00:37:43,239
I think, so this is like, you know, he is

820
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,440
a player whose athleticism matters, and so like he he

821
00:37:46,639 --> 00:37:50,239
I think, you know, he's in his prime today like

822
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,599
this is. It's not not saying he can't stay here

823
00:37:52,639 --> 00:37:54,519
for like three, four or five more years, but like

824
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,639
I'm not sure I see a ton of upside and

825
00:37:57,639 --> 00:37:59,360
and if it did come, I think it would be

826
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:04,320
as you alluded to, like just a little more versatility offensively,

827
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,760
like being a little more threatening attacking with the ball.

828
00:38:08,639 --> 00:38:11,480
But like just again the very limited things that he's

829
00:38:11,519 --> 00:38:13,920
asked to do, he's great at. So I just yeah,

830
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,119
he fits and also find the team he doesn't fit on,

831
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:18,599
like the team doesn't exist.

832
00:38:19,079 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 1: And by the way, if he's adding versatility, it's not

833
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,360
common on the defensive end. It has to be what

834
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,960
else does he's supposed to do defensively? And by the way,

835
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,519
that there's some value in that where Okay, let's say

836
00:38:28,519 --> 00:38:30,760
his athleticism wanes, like the fact that he spent so

837
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,119
much time on like these bigger dudes where it's well, well,

838
00:38:33,199 --> 00:38:35,199
just go to faniokicchen like a bunch of fours. If

839
00:38:35,199 --> 00:38:37,320
he's not able to keep up with the smaller point

840
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,360
of attack guys moving forward, So stock up for me?

841
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,159
Speaker 2: What about you, big time? Yeah, stuck up.

842
00:38:42,199 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: This next player is mine. I'm In Thompson, another guy

843
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,280
we love around these parts of like I said, really

844
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,880
positive exercise that we're going through right now. I don't

845
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,360
this is just kind of another case where and if

846
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,519
you have anything to add, like the defense is just

847
00:38:54,599 --> 00:38:57,920
he's a defensive monster. I don't like he's a disruptor.

848
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,239
I think he has the potential to well, I don't think.

849
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:03,639
I think a lot of people like to gravitate towards

850
00:39:03,639 --> 00:39:05,639
the players who will either guard up or just kind

851
00:39:05,639 --> 00:39:08,880
of like absolutely just shut down one player. If we're

852
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,119
ever looking at, oh, can a perimeter guy win defensive

853
00:39:11,119 --> 00:39:13,239
Player of the Year. I don't know if he fits

854
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,000
that archetype, but if if someone who's not a five

855
00:39:16,079 --> 00:39:17,679
is gonna win Defensive Player of the Year in the

856
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,119
near future, I would have Amen Thompson on the shortlist

857
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,440
of players who would be eligible before, like he has everything,

858
00:39:22,519 --> 00:39:25,639
just the instincts to playmaking, and there's just like you

859
00:39:25,679 --> 00:39:28,440
can't beat him, Like he's just so explosive, you just

860
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:29,159
can't beat him.

861
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:33,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like I'm trying to think who used to

862
00:39:33,079 --> 00:39:36,559
have this? You would see it from like guys like

863
00:39:36,639 --> 00:39:38,960
Chris Dunn or Dennis Smith, where it's like it's just

864
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,239
all you want as a ball handlers, like get this

865
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,000
guy away from me. And Thompson is that guy right now,

866
00:39:44,039 --> 00:39:47,400
except he's way bigger and longer and more athletic and

867
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,719
like even more, he's got to be like the most

868
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:54,039
predatory defender just because he really just attacks guys and

869
00:39:54,119 --> 00:39:56,719
just I can't imagine a player less fun to be

870
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:58,960
defended by than him. But the offense is really what

871
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:00,719
we got to talk about, right in terms of like

872
00:40:01,079 --> 00:40:03,079
ceiling and growth and that kind of thing.

873
00:40:03,559 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 1: And I think I'm still trying to figure out what

874
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,599
his ceiling is. But when you watch him this year,

875
00:40:08,679 --> 00:40:10,559
and I now I've know I've said this a few times,

876
00:40:11,199 --> 00:40:13,519
a lot of players who have his skill set or

877
00:40:13,559 --> 00:40:16,280
let's say limitations right now, like you want to get

878
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,920
them ahead of steam when they're catching the ball, and

879
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,559
he does get that when he's operating in transition or

880
00:40:21,559 --> 00:40:24,840
even in the half court, but his dead stop speed

881
00:40:25,519 --> 00:40:28,599
is insane. Just like this is like he it doesn't

882
00:40:28,599 --> 00:40:31,159
matter how far. If you you watch some of the

883
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,679
Rockets games and it's like, okay, he catches the ball

884
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,599
and then defense are just sagging off him because it's

885
00:40:36,599 --> 00:40:38,039
all right, he's not a threat as a shooter. But

886
00:40:38,079 --> 00:40:40,280
like that'll be able to stop the drive, No, won't,

887
00:40:40,599 --> 00:40:43,199
Like it just won't. Like it's you could station that

888
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:44,880
person all the way back at the basket and he

889
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,719
will still somehow beat them to the rim. And I

890
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,360
think if you go back and watch like last year's

891
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,440
drives versus this year's, it does feel like there's sort

892
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,639
of a more unpredictability, like changes in I won't say

893
00:40:56,679 --> 00:40:59,760
pay so much as direction that's a big deal because

894
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,199
it's like, all right, this doesn't need to be someone

895
00:41:01,199 --> 00:41:04,559
who's attacking from like like a forty five angle or

896
00:41:04,559 --> 00:41:06,320
just from above the like No, like he will get

897
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,840
to where he wants to go by like he will spin.

898
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,320
The footwork this year has been incredible, like his I

899
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,320
don't I feel like it's illegal, like to have his

900
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,679
type of euro step where it's just like it's almost teleportation,

901
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,159
but it feels so much more like explosive than that.

902
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,679
And that's a like there's no notes there, Like I

903
00:41:24,679 --> 00:41:26,800
think that's that's just a huge part of his game

904
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,840
and it makes up for some of his limitations. I

905
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,079
think the other thing, too, is because he's able to

906
00:41:32,119 --> 00:41:33,960
operate from those dead stops. He's now in the eighty

907
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,599
six percentile of self created shot making efficiency. That's up

908
00:41:37,679 --> 00:41:39,760
from fifty seventh last year. Like that's a pret he

909
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,760
was above average technically last year in a somewhat smaller role.

910
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,840
I think the thing I've been most impressed with, and

911
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,639
we did see this last season, both you and I

912
00:41:49,679 --> 00:41:52,400
believe had questions about, well will it work with Shang

913
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,000
guon or some of these other offensive setups. I haven't

914
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,159
looked at the recent numbers, like for the season, those

915
00:41:58,159 --> 00:42:01,400
lineups with Shang gun are working because Amen Thompson is

916
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,159
just always like he maybe not always, but he's willing

917
00:42:04,199 --> 00:42:06,280
to always move, Like there's whether he's gonna be in

918
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:07,719
the baseline or he's gonna be in the dunker spot,

919
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:09,800
or he's gonna, you know, come an attack from forty

920
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,000
five degrees in Like he is always moving you could

921
00:42:12,119 --> 00:42:14,159
use him, He'd like, you're not doing this in a

922
00:42:14,199 --> 00:42:15,960
shit ton of high volume, but if you really want to,

923
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,320
he has the strength, he kind of has the size,

924
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,079
and we've seen him like he set some good screens

925
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,920
this year up. And I think what also helps, by

926
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:24,559
the way, just to give Shangun to hat tip, is

927
00:42:24,559 --> 00:42:26,480
just like he is someone who's willing to set ball

928
00:42:26,519 --> 00:42:28,679
screens that like feel way higher up on the floor

929
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,400
than a lot of other bigs, And so I think

930
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,440
that's also helped the Rockets out in certain instances. But

931
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,199
Amen Thoms's ability to just move without the ball, read

932
00:42:35,199 --> 00:42:37,880
the game without the ball, it allows him to fit

933
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,400
with basically almost anyone. I would say the questions I have,

934
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,000
there's the jump shot, and I think, look, the mid

935
00:42:46,079 --> 00:42:49,719
range percentage is up. He's went from thirty seven percent

936
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,920
last year from mid range to forty two percent this year.

937
00:42:52,039 --> 00:42:54,679
He's shooting about fifty two percent on floaters, up from

938
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,840
forty eight percent last year. And he is shooting thirty

939
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,719
five percent on threes from the corners, but percent above

940
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,760
the break. None of it, like the floater, is a modest,

941
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,159
like medium sized part of his game. None of it's

942
00:43:06,199 --> 00:43:08,800
super high end, and I think what's gonna be really

943
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:12,800
key for him is can one of those become like

944
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,800
whether it's hitting shots from the corners or whether it's

945
00:43:16,159 --> 00:43:19,280
hitting you know, off of drives, off of like driving kicks.

946
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,480
Can he hit those above the break threes? Or can

947
00:43:21,519 --> 00:43:23,360
the floater just be an even more dangerous part of

948
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,199
his game where Okay, you're gonna play off me, I'm

949
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:26,920
not necessarily gonna go buy you like I'm gonna flip

950
00:43:27,039 --> 00:43:30,000
up this floater a little bit more. I don't know

951
00:43:30,039 --> 00:43:31,960
where that's gonna end up. The efficiency on floaters is

952
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,280
certainly encouraging, as is the change in direction with his handle.

953
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:37,079
I think that's going to be a swing part of

954
00:43:37,079 --> 00:43:38,800
his game. And the final thing just that I've noticed

955
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,920
before throwing it to you, I find the playmaking interesting.

956
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,679
He'll do serious damage against scrambling defenses, whether it's in

957
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:49,119
transition or they're reacting to him when he's operating from

958
00:43:49,119 --> 00:43:52,519
that dead stop. I still think that he's probably a

959
00:43:52,559 --> 00:43:54,960
little bit too dependent if you're gonna work in more

960
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,360
deliberate situations, if he has to back down someone or

961
00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,679
wait off the catch, he kind of needs to let

962
00:43:59,679 --> 00:44:03,559
things develop around him at the same time, we have

963
00:44:03,559 --> 00:44:08,280
seen him throw some like truly obscene, live drible passes.

964
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,760
And I think that if the Rockets eventually assemble more

965
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,800
shooters around him, or as his own offensive jump shooting

966
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:18,679
opens up, like those sort of avenues of playmaking are

967
00:44:18,679 --> 00:44:21,599
going to be even more available to him. But I don't,

968
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,000
I don't necessarily know how to feel about him as

969
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:25,960
a playmaker just.

970
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 2: Yet, so that you're you're reading my mind, because I

971
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:33,800
think we have to look at the like the theory

972
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,320
of him as like, okay, should he be a guy

973
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,199
that's in the corner, like he's had most of his

974
00:44:38,199 --> 00:44:40,079
success in the dunker spot for like a lot of

975
00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:42,119
his career so far. But if we put him in

976
00:44:42,119 --> 00:44:45,039
the corner and and okay, because he can make shots

977
00:44:45,039 --> 00:44:48,239
from there, are we foreclosing on the possibility like this

978
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,960
guy might just be the Rockets point guard going forward,

979
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,000
Like you know that was part of the package that

980
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,199
you know was maybe I don't know if you could

981
00:44:56,199 --> 00:44:57,480
see it easily, but it was in there when you

982
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:00,079
were discussing him as a prospect, and so like I

983
00:45:00,639 --> 00:45:02,559
think it was a couple of weeks ago, I was

984
00:45:02,559 --> 00:45:05,920
listening to Ben Taylor and in fairness he was comparing.

985
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,239
He was drawing the comparison between someone like Lebron or

986
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:13,039
Luca or Jokic who manipulates the defense and is like

987
00:45:13,119 --> 00:45:17,639
doing stuff before the pass that indicates, like I understand

988
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,079
what I need to do to these nine other pieces

989
00:45:20,119 --> 00:45:23,440
to maximize this possession. And he contrasted that with someone

990
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,679
with Thompson specifically saying, like he doesn't do that at all,

991
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:29,000
and now that's he's it's in his second year. We

992
00:45:29,159 --> 00:45:32,559
may not be a point guard, but if you so,

993
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,760
it's just I think those two things, like his pretty basic.

994
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,079
I'm not I'm not disagreeing at all with some of

995
00:45:39,119 --> 00:45:40,840
the passes that he throws on the move, like he

996
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:45,960
does see things, but pretty basic understanding of like or

997
00:45:46,039 --> 00:45:49,039
rudimentary maybe is the better word of, like how to

998
00:45:49,079 --> 00:45:51,719
manipulate the other players on the floor when he has

999
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,920
the ball to like create opportunities. And then with the

1000
00:45:54,920 --> 00:46:00,360
shooting limitation. So it's like which of those basic don't know,

1001
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,039
which of those do you think is most likely to

1002
00:46:03,159 --> 00:46:07,480
kind of develop? And then that has to inform like

1003
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:11,119
which role he ultimately plays for the Rockets, right, because

1004
00:46:11,159 --> 00:46:15,159
like he can't be the point guard or the primary initiator.

1005
00:46:15,199 --> 00:46:18,039
I don't think, well, it's hard to do it either

1006
00:46:18,039 --> 00:46:20,039
way if you can't shoot, or but you really can't

1007
00:46:20,079 --> 00:46:22,519
do it if if you're sort of like I can

1008
00:46:22,559 --> 00:46:25,880
make the one pass, but I can't you know, bend

1009
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:27,920
the defense or move this guy here or there or

1010
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,599
set things up. You can't be the point guard. And

1011
00:46:30,679 --> 00:46:32,920
like if you can't make threes from anywhere but the corners,

1012
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,440
Like I don't really know what that means for you

1013
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:37,760
as like a wing, you know, like, so which of

1014
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:41,000
those do you do? You have more confidence in him,

1015
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,480
you know, not being deficient.

1016
00:46:43,039 --> 00:46:46,079
Speaker 1: In I I'll frame it this way, I have more

1017
00:46:46,159 --> 00:46:49,559
confidence in him showing more layers and levels as a

1018
00:46:49,599 --> 00:46:52,239
scorer than I do a passer because I don't know

1019
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,280
if it's not that you need to play offense this way,

1020
00:46:55,639 --> 00:46:57,400
but it's like look at kind of Jamran where we

1021
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,119
kind of know what like his first step speed can be,

1022
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,119
but like you would trust him to run your actual

1023
00:47:03,159 --> 00:47:05,079
offense in the half court. He has his own limitations,

1024
00:47:05,119 --> 00:47:07,639
of course, but I just don't see that type of

1025
00:47:08,559 --> 00:47:12,280
methodicality from I'm and Thompson just yet E or two though.

1026
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:13,880
And it's also by the way, it's not a role

1027
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:15,360
that they've asked him to play in a shit ton

1028
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,159
of volume, because their offense is like, it's not that

1029
00:47:18,199 --> 00:47:20,559
it's by committee, but it has it's so many of

1030
00:47:20,559 --> 00:47:23,840
these other different options. But they have doubled his pick

1031
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,159
and roll ball handling volume from last year, and again

1032
00:47:26,199 --> 00:47:28,880
not like a folkrum of his game at the moment.

1033
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:31,519
And then just the returns are just been eh and

1034
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:33,519
I don't know some of it again, like when you

1035
00:47:33,559 --> 00:47:35,159
look at some of the draw like the turnovers on

1036
00:47:35,199 --> 00:47:37,440
his drives, when he's trying to kick out to players,

1037
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,719
whether it's behind him like off to his side. I

1038
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:41,239
think you can argue that if the Rockets had like

1039
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:44,440
more threatening shooters around him, like those passes will become easier,

1040
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,920
but that's not really I don't think that's because if

1041
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:49,880
you told me, Okay, the Rockets shooters have a ton

1042
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:53,079
of it's four out, like four above averagehooters around him, Okay,

1043
00:47:53,079 --> 00:47:54,519
the play making will get better. But I don't think

1044
00:47:54,519 --> 00:47:56,599
that's what you're asking either. Where it's yeah, you want

1045
00:47:56,679 --> 00:47:58,840
him to be the floor general as of right now,

1046
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,320
I don't necessarily be see him being that type of player.

1047
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I feel like me asking that is

1048
00:48:05,679 --> 00:48:07,639
a little unfair because I think I think he's gonna

1049
00:48:07,639 --> 00:48:09,320
be a really good player. He is a good, really

1050
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:11,679
good player. I think he's gonna be an even better player,

1051
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:13,880
like even if he continues to be like a sub

1052
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,760
thirty percent three point shooter and never develops as a passer,

1053
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,480
just because he'll get better at the stuff he's already

1054
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,280
good at, and he's already good at enough different things that,

1055
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,199
like like the gravity thing, like he has no gravity

1056
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:29,360
off the ball, but because he moves, defenses cannot let

1057
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,440
him like take a hand off or come off a

1058
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,880
screen with any kind of advantage or any kind of

1059
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,880
space because he's just gonna athletically overwhelm you and make

1060
00:48:37,159 --> 00:48:41,199
make that space like devastating. So like he does, he's

1061
00:48:41,199 --> 00:48:43,280
not someone you get to ignore. It's like we're not

1062
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,480
talking like a Tony Allen type thing where he's just

1063
00:48:45,519 --> 00:48:48,159
standing in the corner. So I think there are ways

1064
00:48:48,199 --> 00:48:51,199
for him to leverage what he's great at to be

1065
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,480
like a more dynamic offensive player than he even is

1066
00:48:53,559 --> 00:48:57,199
right now, but like to get rich to be like

1067
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:00,199
the guy like offensively, I think one of the one

1068
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,679
of the two things we're not sure about probably needs

1069
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,599
to happen for like talking like all star stuff. Otherwise

1070
00:49:05,599 --> 00:49:07,440
he's gonna be a good He's a good starter today

1071
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,960
and that'll continue. But the ceiling is really interesting because

1072
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:13,719
it could take he could reach it and in like

1073
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:17,360
ways that you know several different types of players ultimately,

1074
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:19,079
Like I don't that's the other I don't know what

1075
00:49:19,159 --> 00:49:21,960
kind offensive player ultimately he's gonna be, wouldn't.

1076
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: This isn't a perfect analog, So I don't know that

1077
00:49:24,079 --> 00:49:27,320
I'll ever see him the way that Yannis operates offensively.

1078
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:29,719
But I might have said this after the second season

1079
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,639
of Yannis his career. Yeah, everything felt so abrupt from him,

1080
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:35,960
but he's turned into just a more deliberate score and like, no,

1081
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:38,280
do you trust the mid range jumper all the time?

1082
00:49:38,679 --> 00:49:41,280
Like he just has all these different counters offensively, and

1083
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:43,480
you would trust him as a secondary playmaker. Now, one

1084
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:45,880
of the bucks bigger issue was they want someone aside

1085
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:47,800
from Dame to be more of a primary guy. So

1086
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:50,280
maybe maybe it's similar in the sense of, Okay, if

1087
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:54,360
he becomes Yiannis as a playmaker, there's absolutely nothing wrong

1088
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:54,639
with that.

1089
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think too, Like he's not as cerebral

1090
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,400
but like from a like a by composition's standpoint, and

1091
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:05,480
like there's like a Jimmy Butler type offensive game where

1092
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:07,639
it's like he's not hunting threes, He's just gonna get

1093
00:50:07,679 --> 00:50:10,440
to his spot and be have good feet and be strong.

1094
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,199
Like there's no reason Thompson can't be someone that's getting

1095
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:14,920
to the line like eight nine times a game. Like

1096
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:16,320
that kind of thing could come too.

1097
00:50:17,039 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, his free throw tenth rate is up this year

1098
00:50:19,119 --> 00:50:21,199
as well. I'd be curious he does. See. I don't

1099
00:50:21,199 --> 00:50:23,559
know if it's just not he's so fast, but like

1100
00:50:24,079 --> 00:50:26,039
he's not the best at finishing through, Like he's had

1101
00:50:26,039 --> 00:50:27,559
some really tough finishes. But I think part of that

1102
00:50:27,639 --> 00:50:29,519
is when he's trying to finish through contact, it's like

1103
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,079
increasing the distance between him and the hoop, and like

1104
00:50:32,079 --> 00:50:34,719
we just know his limitations there. But I do think

1105
00:50:35,199 --> 00:50:38,159
just the progression as even a floater shot maker, like

1106
00:50:38,199 --> 00:50:40,840
that percentage climbing, it's a good harbinger if you have

1107
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:43,719
any concerns about about him there. So I'm I'm stock

1108
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:44,400
up on him.

1109
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:46,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, that's big time stuck up for sure.

1110
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:48,159
Speaker 1: Who you got Grant? Oh? Wow?

1111
00:50:48,199 --> 00:50:50,760
Speaker 2: Who is this guy? We got? We got pods. We

1112
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:54,199
got Brandon Pajemski, man of several seasons already in this year.

1113
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:58,159
So I think the first thing that I feel most

1114
00:50:58,199 --> 00:51:01,400
confident about is that like he's not he's just not

1115
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:03,159
a star. He's not going to be a star. I

1116
00:51:03,199 --> 00:51:06,800
think he can be a decent starter, maybe a little

1117
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:11,440
better than that who looks great when surrounded by other

1118
00:51:11,599 --> 00:51:15,400
smart players, because like he does have real limitations. The

1119
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,639
shooting is just like if you had to just boil

1120
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:20,039
down the like, how good can Pajemski be? It's like,

1121
00:51:20,079 --> 00:51:23,199
is he going to make a league average percentage from three?

1122
00:51:23,519 --> 00:51:26,320
Like that's that's kind of just it, because do you

1123
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:27,440
just provide.

1124
00:51:27,599 --> 00:51:30,079
Speaker 1: Have him recover from what was an abdominal injury each

1125
00:51:30,119 --> 00:51:31,320
time and then he'll come back.

1126
00:51:31,199 --> 00:51:33,280
Speaker 2: And something like that. Yeah, so that's the thing. So

1127
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:35,599
he's had three months under thirty percent from three this

1128
00:51:35,679 --> 00:51:38,440
year and two months over forty, So like, which which

1129
00:51:38,519 --> 00:51:41,760
is it? I think he's second one obviously, sure of course,

1130
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,480
And like the I think if if that's your position,

1131
00:51:45,639 --> 00:51:48,119
you can point to he's making seventy five percent of

1132
00:51:48,119 --> 00:51:50,840
his free throws this year, which is much better than

1133
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:52,840
last year and much better than early this season. When

1134
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:56,559
it was like, how is it possible that a guard

1135
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,159
is in the sixties or the seas in the fifties.

1136
00:51:59,159 --> 00:52:02,119
For me, like that can be sustainable. So the shooting

1137
00:52:02,159 --> 00:52:05,559
is the swing skill. I think like we've got enough

1138
00:52:05,599 --> 00:52:07,920
of a sample of the plus minus stuff and the

1139
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:11,199
defensive estimated plus Like he's a ninety first percentile guy

1140
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:15,039
in DPM. That's that's just like playmaking, knows for the

1141
00:52:15,039 --> 00:52:17,760
ball stuff like takes a million charges, tends to be

1142
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,559
in the right spot, gambles like fairly selectively, and is

1143
00:52:21,639 --> 00:52:25,159
successful at it. The defensive rebounding, he's an awesome rebounder

1144
00:52:25,199 --> 00:52:27,960
for a guard's It's really just a continuation of last year.

1145
00:52:28,679 --> 00:52:32,800
The difference being we saw what it looks like when oh,

1146
00:52:33,039 --> 00:52:35,920
like the ball's not going in and he can't score

1147
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:38,800
at all, and he looks on athletic like he's a

1148
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,039
real He's been a real Peaks and Valleys player this year.

1149
00:52:41,079 --> 00:52:44,800
I think the difference, the difference lately is just that

1150
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:48,239
like the Warriors have another smart offensive player in Jimmy Butler,

1151
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:50,920
and that has everybody cutting harder, and Jimsy's good at that,

1152
00:52:51,599 --> 00:52:54,920
and just he makes more sense when he can just

1153
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,280
be like a supplementary piece that does a bunch of

1154
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:01,440
smart shit and like plays hard. I like, I don't

1155
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,559
know what more, Maybe you tell me, like, do you

1156
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:06,920
do you think that's like a too limiting of an

1157
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:08,960
assessment for him, where it's like he's a high end

1158
00:53:09,039 --> 00:53:12,000
roll guy and I'm not sure the ceiling goes much

1159
00:53:12,119 --> 00:53:15,039
above that. No, I'd be with you, And I was

1160
00:53:15,079 --> 00:53:18,199
probably I said some pretty inflammatory things after last year

1161
00:53:18,199 --> 00:53:21,079
because I looked at the separation and just the percentage

1162
00:53:21,079 --> 00:53:22,880
of what he was doing on his step back jumpers,

1163
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:25,760
and I was everyone's so concerned about the lack of

1164
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:28,119
athleticism or what's he gonna do going downhill or Kenny

1165
00:53:28,159 --> 00:53:30,760
hit jumpers. I'm like, we just have evidence here those

1166
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:32,920
percentages of plummeted. And I think the more you watch him,

1167
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:35,000
you kind of understand, all right, if he's gonna be

1168
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,360
limited from the perimeter and that when it comes to

1169
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:40,599
shock creation and then I don't know, I know he

1170
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:42,719
guards at the point of attack a ton, but like.

1171
00:53:42,679 --> 00:53:45,599
Speaker 1: Do you consider him that level? He's a very smart defender,

1172
00:53:45,599 --> 00:53:47,800
but is he that level of a defender? And if

1173
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:49,800
he's not, then what is he.

1174
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:53,840
Speaker 2: That's the thing, like he's I don't think anyone would

1175
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,960
confuse him with like a shutdown type of defender. I think,

1176
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,719
like just he's not he's listed at six or five.

1177
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:02,119
I don't see sixty five when when when you watch,

1178
00:54:02,159 --> 00:54:04,400
he doesn't play six y five except as a rebounder.

1179
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:09,480
I think I think he's smart off the ball. He

1180
00:54:09,559 --> 00:54:11,920
does a lot of smart things, like getting in position

1181
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,280
for charges. He definitely reads the floor really well and

1182
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,079
like that goes a long way defensively. But I don't

1183
00:54:17,079 --> 00:54:21,039
see a scenario where you're ever consistently putting him on

1184
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:24,039
a guy that you need to like stop. I think

1185
00:54:24,079 --> 00:54:26,000
I think he can be part of a very good defense.

1186
00:54:26,039 --> 00:54:27,679
I think there's no question about that. I don't know

1187
00:54:27,679 --> 00:54:30,199
if he's going to be someone that's like the reason

1188
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:33,159
the defense is good, you know, on his own. So

1189
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,400
like I think it's just it's a lot of the

1190
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,960
same stuff. Like you know, when he looks worse on offense,

1191
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:43,039
it's when he's trying to create a shot and he

1192
00:54:43,079 --> 00:54:46,440
gets to twelve feet and gets like stuck because he's

1193
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:49,039
not long enough to finish over people, and he goes

1194
00:54:49,519 --> 00:54:51,519
he's got like creative footwork and he gets off a

1195
00:54:51,559 --> 00:54:53,320
lot of weird shots that like he kind of doesn't

1196
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:56,480
have any business getting off. It's similar on defense, where

1197
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:59,760
it's like he'll do the right things, but at some point,

1198
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:03,119
I I think the athletic and size limitations make it

1199
00:55:03,199 --> 00:55:07,280
so that he can't I think, be a consistent like

1200
00:55:07,519 --> 00:55:10,280
shut down, you know, clamps on type of guy. Maybe

1201
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:13,679
against like certain matchups you can you can see him

1202
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:15,079
do that, but I don't think consistently.

1203
00:55:16,199 --> 00:55:19,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd probably be stocked neutral on him at this

1204
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,679
I'm not down based off how he started the season,

1205
00:55:22,679 --> 00:55:24,320
but I was so confident in him being able to

1206
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:26,320
be like more of a perimeter shot maker. Yeah, and

1207
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,599
maybe the past two months has been the harbinger of

1208
00:55:29,599 --> 00:55:33,679
what's to come. But I just don't like, what is

1209
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:35,599
it who would be a comp not in terms of

1210
00:55:35,599 --> 00:55:37,320
play style as a player, but use role player. I'm

1211
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:39,800
talking about just in terms of value, like what would

1212
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:42,199
be a comp of what this and like look for

1213
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:46,079
where you drafted him, He'll he'll outperformed his draft regardless.

1214
00:55:46,519 --> 00:55:52,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think like so like on the low end,

1215
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:54,679
I guess even though this guy is a useful player,

1216
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:57,719
like it's kind of there's some TJ. McConnell like plays

1217
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,239
at a fast paced like is not a super He's

1218
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,840
a more threatening shooter than McConnell for sure, but like

1219
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:04,920
is getting into the lane and trying to make stuff happen,

1220
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:07,280
and is an irritant on defense and does smart things.

1221
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:10,880
That's a low end, like I if you go higher end,

1222
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:13,599
it's like, I don't know who that it's. He's not

1223
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,800
an on ball like dragicic type. Just to use another

1224
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:21,400
like white lefty uh or like because Dragic could really

1225
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,079
play point guard and right was a high volume, like

1226
00:56:24,199 --> 00:56:27,000
dangerous three point shooter, but he has had a bunch

1227
00:56:27,039 --> 00:56:30,239
of craft like similar craftiness. It's a hard comp I

1228
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:32,679
would say, I'm also stock neutral just to jump it

1229
00:56:33,039 --> 00:56:34,639
because he was he was fifth in Rookie of the

1230
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:38,239
Year voting last year, and like he's somewhere in that range.

1231
00:56:38,679 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 1: Sorts last year too, by the way, that that's egregious, correct,

1232
00:56:41,559 --> 00:56:44,079
what'd you say he got all defense votes last year?

1233
00:56:44,119 --> 00:56:46,119
Speaker 2: But I don't remember that. I think, Well, if you

1234
00:56:46,199 --> 00:56:48,119
leave the league in charges by ten miles, I guess

1235
00:56:48,119 --> 00:56:49,280
that sways some people.

1236
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 1: But what do you think about this comp The rim

1237
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:54,760
pressure is not like it's not even close to the

1238
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:57,800
same with the rim finishing and maybe I'm just focused

1239
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,000
on the fact that they're so like he's a click

1240
00:57:00,039 --> 00:57:00,760
dick type players.

1241
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:05,079
Speaker 2: But Josh Hart, that's interesting. I like the rebounding is

1242
00:57:05,159 --> 00:57:06,400
kind of on the nose.

1243
00:57:07,519 --> 00:57:10,559
Speaker 1: Good enough on defense, but not excellent on defense.

1244
00:57:11,119 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the defensive impact is more because of like

1245
00:57:14,639 --> 00:57:18,400
energy level and like competitiveness than oh he's just like

1246
00:57:18,559 --> 00:57:21,840
so physically gifted or or you know that kind of Yeah,

1247
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:24,440
that's an interesting one. And you could even the three

1248
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:27,400
point shooting like coming and going, I think is a

1249
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:30,000
real is a good through line for that too. Yeah.

1250
00:57:30,039 --> 00:57:33,960
Maybe Heart plays bigger though that would be the biggest

1251
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:38,599
difference is other than rebounding. Pajemski profile Like offensively, Pajemski

1252
00:57:38,639 --> 00:57:42,400
plays like he's six feet you know, like that that's

1253
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,639
a big difference there. Heart is finishing into contact and

1254
00:57:45,679 --> 00:57:48,880
like it's just one of the best transition finishers around,

1255
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:50,719
like that kind of thing. He plays bigger, But yeah,

1256
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:52,760
like that's that's a better comp than any of mine.

1257
00:57:53,039 --> 00:57:54,039
That's that's interesting.

1258
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:56,039
Speaker 1: So are you stock up or stocked out of him?

1259
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:59,360
Speaker 2: And I think it's neutral. I think like the plus

1260
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:01,800
minus stuff like is what it is, and eventually we

1261
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:03,440
won't be able to ignore it. Like he is kind

1262
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:07,159
of a winning player, but like he's a complimentary winning player,

1263
00:58:07,199 --> 00:58:09,320
I think, which is what we knew last year.

1264
00:58:09,679 --> 00:58:12,679
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for Friday for more on maybe Brandon Projimski.

1265
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,000
I have nice little discussion going on there. I am

1266
00:58:15,119 --> 00:58:19,119
up with my final deep dive rookie. A rookie, excuse me,

1267
00:58:19,159 --> 00:58:22,760
sophomore remain smitten with Asar Thompson. So I mean I

1268
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:24,920
could spoil it and just say I'm stock up for him.

1269
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:27,159
I think it took a little while for him to,

1270
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,000
if you want to say, get going. He came back

1271
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:32,639
from the blood clot, wasn't available to start the season. Uh,

1272
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:36,559
we'll get into limitations, I think. And we're gonna just

1273
00:58:36,679 --> 00:58:38,280
compare the two because they're twins.

1274
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say, I'm an idiot. Can you

1275
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,400
just tell me the differences? So that's what I'd like

1276
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:43,679
to know.

1277
00:58:44,119 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 1: I will I won't just say that because I want

1278
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:49,000
to give Ssar Thompson some credit. And I think, Look,

1279
00:58:49,079 --> 00:58:51,000
they're being used in different ways. I think one of

1280
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:53,960
the I think in terms of floor awareness and as

1281
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:57,400
a passer, I like Asar Thompson a lot better than

1282
00:58:57,639 --> 00:58:59,320
men Thompson there, and when you look at a sar

1283
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:01,760
Thompson just kind of operating if you're gonna get like

1284
00:59:02,039 --> 00:59:03,800
they're not even gonna give him a ton of ball

1285
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:06,840
screens necessarily, but like he will more methodically break down

1286
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:10,360
defenses in the half court. Now, there's only so much

1287
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:12,519
like that means when you don't I think right now

1288
00:59:12,559 --> 00:59:14,960
he's even more limited. When you look at the floater percentages,

1289
00:59:15,199 --> 00:59:17,719
they're a smaller part of his game. He's shooting worse

1290
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:20,559
from three than I'm men Thompson. But what I've really

1291
00:59:20,679 --> 00:59:23,519
liked seeing the Pistons doing, and it feels like anecdotally

1292
00:59:23,559 --> 00:59:26,519
there's been an increase of like Kay cunninghamy when he's

1293
00:59:26,519 --> 00:59:27,760
on the floor is not always gonna bring up the

1294
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:30,000
ball like Asar Thompson will do it. And I think

1295
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:33,599
that's created a lot of opportunities to unlock his playmaking,

1296
00:59:33,719 --> 00:59:36,239
give kid breaks, give him an ability to showcase what

1297
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:38,760
he's able to do off the ball. I think just

1298
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:43,119
Asar Thompson's awareness of the surroundings is huge in the

1299
00:59:43,119 --> 00:59:45,159
half court and that extends to by the way, this

1300
00:59:45,239 --> 00:59:48,239
is something that am Men Thompson's also good at. This

1301
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:51,360
extends toone he's off the ball as well, Asar knows

1302
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:53,719
how to use, like utilize the dunker spot. I think

1303
00:59:53,719 --> 00:59:55,719
what he's done a really good job of because when

1304
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:59,400
you look at Alprinshangun and maybe where the players are

1305
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:02,719
setting their primary screens like as Shang Gun or Jalen

1306
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:04,960
Duran or even just where their station, a lot of

1307
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:08,679
the time, Shang Guon to me objectively, gives Amn Thompson

1308
01:00:08,719 --> 01:00:12,079
more room to work with. Jalen Duran does not like.

1309
01:00:12,079 --> 01:00:13,760
And that's just the type of play because if he's

1310
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:15,679
not going to be involved in the screening action, even

1311
01:00:15,679 --> 01:00:17,400
if he is, how high are you going to have

1312
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:19,639
him come out? And so I think Usar Thompson's had

1313
01:00:19,679 --> 01:00:21,840
to work within I think you can make the case

1314
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:24,760
that maybe there's better shooters around him in certain lineups,

1315
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:28,360
but he's had to work off of a tougher situation.

1316
01:00:28,519 --> 01:00:31,039
Big I would say, like because Shang Goun's just better

1317
01:00:31,039 --> 01:00:33,599
than Duran Duran on offense hot take there I know.

1318
01:00:34,239 --> 01:00:36,480
So I appreciate like his floor navigation when he's away

1319
01:00:36,519 --> 01:00:38,360
from the ball, but the passing to me is like

1320
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:39,840
a big deal. I don't know if he's ever we

1321
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:42,599
mentioned this with Aman Thompson. They have the same limitations

1322
01:00:42,599 --> 01:00:44,880
in the sense of, all right, if you want them

1323
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:46,320
to just run a pick and roll or if you want

1324
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:47,679
to give them a ball and have them just run

1325
01:00:47,719 --> 01:00:52,280
the offense. Conventionally, that's not something that he's necessarily fully

1326
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:54,480
equipped to do. But I will say I think he's

1327
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:57,159
a lot better at it than Aman Thompson is right now,

1328
01:00:57,159 --> 01:01:01,199
because I'm and Thompson feels as a playmaker more reliant

1329
01:01:01,239 --> 01:01:04,079
on his speed than Asar Thompson does at this point,

1330
01:01:04,199 --> 01:01:07,679
And I honestly the other thing too. And this would

1331
01:01:07,719 --> 01:01:10,920
come down to a difference between them. Who do you

1332
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:14,679
feel about better defensively, like as the one on one

1333
01:01:14,719 --> 01:01:15,320
type of guy.

1334
01:01:16,119 --> 01:01:19,840
Speaker 2: So I think I have to say this, this is

1335
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:23,039
the problem. I would say, amen. But the question I

1336
01:01:23,079 --> 01:01:24,840
was gonna ask you is like, if you just had

1337
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:27,280
both of them playing like the same minutes in role,

1338
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:29,360
I don't know if I would. I think it would

1339
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:31,440
be like, Oh, it's a wash, because like to say

1340
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:34,440
that Asar is anything less than like a terrifying defender

1341
01:01:34,519 --> 01:01:35,000
is wrong.

1342
01:01:36,039 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 1: No, Okay, he is. He's like he has some of

1343
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:40,280
the playmaking aspect, but I feel like he also kind

1344
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:42,800
of has more of the and I think a sar,

1345
01:01:43,079 --> 01:01:45,719
excuse me, Amen is kind of more disruptive and if

1346
01:01:45,719 --> 01:01:48,039
you're gonna look at, oh, look at what someone is

1347
01:01:48,079 --> 01:01:51,320
doing as breaking up these plays, or maybe we get

1348
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:53,400
to a point where the counting stats might, like those

1349
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:56,920
counting defensive stats will favor Amen heavily. But if you're

1350
01:01:56,960 --> 01:02:00,280
just asking me, like who is more likely to be

1351
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:02,440
the type of defender where I don't know if this

1352
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:04,880
is the player that popularized it. Maybe it's just like

1353
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:07,159
my first recalling it back in what was the twenty

1354
01:02:07,239 --> 01:02:10,559
eleven where it was Kawhi Leonard is gonna be on

1355
01:02:10,639 --> 01:02:13,320
you and like we're you're our best offensive player or score,

1356
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:15,119
We're not gonna involve you in the offense because we

1357
01:02:15,119 --> 01:02:17,639
don't want Kawhi Leonard in Like it feels that Asar

1358
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:19,440
Thompson to me is more of that type of a

1359
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:22,199
defender than Amen Thompson would be. Maybe that's splitting hairs,

1360
01:02:22,199 --> 01:02:24,559
Maybe it's wrong. Again, there are fewer than one hundred

1361
01:02:24,559 --> 01:02:27,960
games into their careers, so we will see the questions

1362
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:30,800
with him. And again I love the changes in pace

1363
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:34,400
on the ball from him as well. He's up on

1364
01:02:34,519 --> 01:02:36,639
floaters this year, but there's still only forty four point

1365
01:02:36,679 --> 01:02:39,039
four percent versus twenty nine point four percent last year

1366
01:02:39,079 --> 01:02:42,519
three of seventeen on corner threes, which is eighteen percent.

1367
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:45,920
I don't like. I think that's going to be the

1368
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:48,719
swing skill for him? Is just like is he gonna

1369
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:51,440
have one of those? And I think in his case,

1370
01:02:52,039 --> 01:02:55,159
and maybe this changes as the complexion of the rockets changes,

1371
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:57,280
but in his case it might be more important. Yet

1372
01:02:57,280 --> 01:02:59,239
he's great at working in from the baseline I mentioned

1373
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:02,719
the dunker spots. He also deserves credit because he's shooting

1374
01:03:02,719 --> 01:03:05,320
sixty percent on two's with Durren on the floor and

1375
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:08,239
without Durren on the floor. And so that's like the

1376
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:09,920
fact that you could play him with Calan Duran. We've

1377
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,480
seen something is with Ron Holland as well, Like that matters.

1378
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:14,760
Does it feel like it's gonna be more important for

1379
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:18,480
him than Ahman Thompson to be like more of an

1380
01:03:18,519 --> 01:03:21,400
off ball jump shooter or like because Kate cutting Samage

1381
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:22,559
is there in Detroit?

1382
01:03:23,159 --> 01:03:25,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think so that's the thing is like

1383
01:03:26,199 --> 01:03:28,880
they're what they're being asked to do is very different.

1384
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:31,400
Since we since I personally can't stop just comparing the

1385
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:35,400
two like I would, I think I'd feel differently if

1386
01:03:35,719 --> 01:03:38,760
in Detroit Asar was on the ball as much as

1387
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:41,000
Ahman was, and then I'd be like, well he could.

1388
01:03:41,079 --> 01:03:43,639
You know, it's not it's not like necessity that it

1389
01:03:43,719 --> 01:03:46,199
becomes a league average three point shooter, the same way

1390
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:48,480
it is with with Amen, because oh, there's another way

1391
01:03:48,519 --> 01:03:52,639
for him to be a real plus offensively. But Kate

1392
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:55,039
is the guy and so that's been the thing in

1393
01:03:55,079 --> 01:03:57,800
Detroit forever is just how do we play off of him?

1394
01:03:57,840 --> 01:03:59,400
And so he's just gonna have to be a shooter.

1395
01:04:00,559 --> 01:04:02,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think that would be something to consider.

1396
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:05,320
But again, the complexion of the Rockets could change if

1397
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:08,079
they make a consolidation trade or something over the summer.

1398
01:04:08,199 --> 01:04:10,440
The other thing he like we already mentioned, like the

1399
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:12,360
off ball movement is going to be there. Is there

1400
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:14,159
anything else that either stands out or is like a

1401
01:04:14,199 --> 01:04:18,119
concerning part for you? And like what do you I

1402
01:04:18,119 --> 01:04:20,599
guess what do you see? We talked about like the

1403
01:04:20,599 --> 01:04:22,599
long term vision for omentops, Like what is the long

1404
01:04:22,679 --> 01:04:23,679
term vision for him?

1405
01:04:24,079 --> 01:04:31,920
Speaker 2: Then I think it's I guess it's clearer because just

1406
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:34,519
to reiterate, like, I don't think there's a scenario where

1407
01:04:34,599 --> 01:04:37,360
a star is like a high usage on the ball

1408
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:40,679
playmaker because that you know, seat's taken like that's that's

1409
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:44,559
Kate Cunningham. So I think the difference is I don't

1410
01:04:44,599 --> 01:04:46,599
know that there's a huge difference in skill set. Honestly,

1411
01:04:46,599 --> 01:04:50,480
I have a huge, really hard time like picking out like, oh,

1412
01:04:50,559 --> 01:04:54,079
definitely this is different between the two of them. I

1413
01:04:54,119 --> 01:04:57,519
think the differences will just become apparent in like, well,

1414
01:04:57,519 --> 01:04:59,800
a star is gonna be asked to handle like slightly

1415
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:02,599
more specific things I think, and can he do that?

1416
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:05,880
So and in a way that's a little disappointing because

1417
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:08,480
it is gonna limit him, I think a little bit.

1418
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:11,639
Do you feel like I've always had this feeling, well,

1419
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:14,440
more so last year like Thompson.

1420
01:05:14,239 --> 01:05:18,199
Speaker 1: Seems like wish Thompson, thank you.

1421
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:20,760
Speaker 2: So I'm looking at Asar Thompson on the screens, so

1422
01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:22,719
like obviously he knows what I'm talking about. A SAR

1423
01:05:23,599 --> 01:05:27,079
feels to me more like if things don't work out

1424
01:05:27,119 --> 01:05:29,079
on offense, I'm kind of cool with him. He's my

1425
01:05:29,119 --> 01:05:32,000
power forward or you know, like whereas I guess we

1426
01:05:32,039 --> 01:05:34,079
should say that about Amen too, because he's done all

1427
01:05:34,079 --> 01:05:36,199
the dunker spot stuff and he rebounds really well and

1428
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:39,039
he's strong. But for some reason I view a sar

1429
01:05:39,159 --> 01:05:43,920
as like that fallback feels more comfortable to me, maybe

1430
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,400
because he had better shot blocking numbers I think specifically

1431
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:48,719
last year. Do you have that sense or is it

1432
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:50,599
more they're just both either wings or guards?

1433
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:55,719
Speaker 1: No, so I think, ah, how do you think the opposite? No,

1434
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:58,000
I don't think. I don't think the opposite. I guess

1435
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:00,880
I would feel about the same if like the jumper's

1436
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:02,000
not gonna pain out for the two of them. But

1437
01:06:02,039 --> 01:06:07,079
I do think that if you remove the thermonuclear athleticism

1438
01:06:07,079 --> 01:06:10,280
from their games, I find what Asar Thompson does so

1439
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:14,519
far slightly more cerebral, where it's if you had to

1440
01:06:14,559 --> 01:06:17,119
have him set screens more evidence than he does now,

1441
01:06:17,159 --> 01:06:19,199
I would trust him more out of that. And I think,

1442
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:21,559
just because I mentioned the top of this, just the

1443
01:06:21,599 --> 01:06:23,480
way we've seen and this might be a reps thing

1444
01:06:23,559 --> 01:06:26,480
or the way that they're using him thing like they've slowed,

1445
01:06:26,519 --> 01:06:28,199
they've had to slow things down when he has the

1446
01:06:28,199 --> 01:06:30,880
ball in his hands offensively, and so like we've kind

1447
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:34,039
of seen more pathways for him as a passer there.

1448
01:06:34,199 --> 01:06:36,199
I would feel if you if you took away that

1449
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:40,960
just detonative athleticism. I feel better about Assar Thompson as

1450
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:41,400
the player.

1451
01:06:43,199 --> 01:06:45,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's fair. I think that's I think

1452
01:06:45,599 --> 01:06:47,800
that's kind of I'm saying the same thing in a

1453
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:50,840
different way. So is the stock up or stock down?

1454
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:54,199
Because like I mean, had a weirdly knock him down?

1455
01:06:54,599 --> 01:06:57,039
Speaker 1: Just is it because like the offensive efficiency hasn't climbed

1456
01:06:57,079 --> 01:06:58,159
in the way that it has.

1457
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:00,320
Speaker 2: For No, just because that's the premise.

1458
01:07:01,599 --> 01:07:04,400
Speaker 1: I thought you were actually considering. I'm I'm stuck up.

1459
01:07:04,559 --> 01:07:07,599
I think as a score, here's an interesting question. As

1460
01:07:07,599 --> 01:07:10,719
a score, we both definitely have more questions about a

1461
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:12,760
SAR than a'm men Like that's.

1462
01:07:12,519 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right. I But other than that,

1463
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:17,519
like he's stuck up for me, Like all his per

1464
01:07:17,599 --> 01:07:21,280
thirty six is are significantly improved. He's like he would

1465
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:23,519
basically just be leading the league in steels if he

1466
01:07:23,599 --> 01:07:26,519
were playing, you know, thirty six minutes and get into

1467
01:07:26,519 --> 01:07:29,039
the line a little more. Everything is ticking up, even

1468
01:07:29,199 --> 01:07:31,760
it's modest, but you know he's up over twenty percent

1469
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:34,920
from three. That's that's better than eighteen percent. Like he

1470
01:07:35,119 --> 01:07:38,159
just the questions largely though, are the same gonna make

1471
01:07:38,199 --> 01:07:40,960
shots or you're gonna be an on ball guy and

1472
01:07:41,119 --> 01:07:43,840
we'll just that that determines how good or great these

1473
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:44,519
two can both be.

1474
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:47,039
Speaker 1: Is there some I way off there when I said

1475
01:07:47,079 --> 01:07:50,639
at the beginning where it does feel like Amen Thompson

1476
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:54,360
is more disruptive. But you even look at Asar Thompson

1477
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:56,760
and you're like the what is his his block rate

1478
01:07:56,840 --> 01:07:59,000
is higher this show? Oh no, it's lower than it

1479
01:07:59,079 --> 01:08:01,239
was last year. Maybe that's what I why I'm like,

1480
01:08:01,599 --> 01:08:03,079
put like a steel rate. He's almost at a four

1481
01:08:03,079 --> 01:08:05,880
percent steel rate this year. Is that? Is that just

1482
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:09,440
completely but like insane that I'm saying that? Or is

1483
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:12,079
it like is it's it's a feel thing watching them?

1484
01:08:12,079 --> 01:08:14,800
And maybe it's because if it like Asar Thompson spending

1485
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:17,760
more time guarding the ball, well.

1486
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:21,000
Speaker 2: I I still can't get out of my head, like

1487
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:23,520
what was it? Maybe I think it was an early

1488
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:27,800
season game against Minnesota where a'men just like if it

1489
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:30,319
was Edwards or if it was Conley or whoever was

1490
01:08:30,319 --> 01:08:33,199
a lot of colmly where he just like my vision

1491
01:08:33,199 --> 01:08:35,119
of Amen is like if you're a one or a

1492
01:08:35,119 --> 01:08:37,680
two and you see him matched up across from you,

1493
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:40,439
it's just like a nightmare. Whereas a star I feel

1494
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:42,479
like is more someone that's out there on like the

1495
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:45,640
Tatum type guys that like those size players. Maybe the

1496
01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:48,039
matchup data totally puts the lie to this, but I

1497
01:08:48,079 --> 01:08:51,880
think of them defensively a little differently. Where a'men is like,

1498
01:08:52,239 --> 01:08:54,760
has no right to be as quick and predatory as

1499
01:08:54,800 --> 01:08:56,920
he is for his size, and so he's just like

1500
01:08:57,039 --> 01:09:01,760
terrible against terrible, like he's a terror against smaller guards,

1501
01:09:02,039 --> 01:09:03,840
whereas a star is just like you put him on

1502
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:06,560
a wing and it's clamps like little. I don't know

1503
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:08,199
why I think that, but that's just how I view

1504
01:09:08,279 --> 01:09:09,600
slight differences defensively.

1505
01:09:10,399 --> 01:09:12,520
Speaker 1: Stock up for both of them, though, So congratulations to

1506
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:14,640
the tops and twins, who are separate people just by

1507
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:18,439
grant deciding that they're just one human being. We're gonna

1508
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:20,079
enter the more of the quick hitter portion of this

1509
01:09:20,119 --> 01:09:22,640
to run through some guys with our impressions of and

1510
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:24,439
next up and oh no, wait, this is our final

1511
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:26,239
deep dive you have? How can I forget about Black

1512
01:09:26,279 --> 01:09:27,319
Cool Bali, our guy.

1513
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:30,199
Speaker 2: Well, unfortunately, there's a good reason you might have forgotten

1514
01:09:30,199 --> 01:09:31,840
about him is he's been quite a bit worse this

1515
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:36,039
year in a couple of important ways. The shooting has

1516
01:09:36,119 --> 01:09:40,640
regressed significantly. He has been worse from two and notably

1517
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:42,920
worse from three. He's twenty eight percent from three this

1518
01:09:43,039 --> 01:09:47,159
year and the volumes higher marginally, but he was thirty

1519
01:09:47,199 --> 01:09:50,560
five percent last year, which was with that his athleticism

1520
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:52,880
and potential was like, Okay, this is a guy. He

1521
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:55,159
still could be that guy. This is age twenty season.

1522
01:09:55,199 --> 01:09:57,319
He's younger than a lot of the players we've talked about,

1523
01:09:57,680 --> 01:10:01,279
and he's in a situation that, like, you know, playing

1524
01:10:01,279 --> 01:10:04,560
for Washington, if you're drawing any far reaching conclusions about

1525
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:07,800
almost anybody, like good luck, because the environment is just

1526
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:11,239
not conducive to like major development other than the fact

1527
01:10:11,239 --> 01:10:13,279
that you can have a really big role before you're

1528
01:10:13,319 --> 01:10:17,079
ready for it. I think it sort of offsets the

1529
01:10:17,079 --> 01:10:23,319
shooting stuff that there is. Partly it's just Washington trying

1530
01:10:23,359 --> 01:10:25,439
to do this, I think, but there has been like

1531
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:30,359
pretty legitimate like playmaking growth, which i you know, his

1532
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:33,119
assist rate has almost doubled eight to fifteen percent, and

1533
01:10:33,159 --> 01:10:36,279
the turnovers of state about steady the time of possession.

1534
01:10:36,319 --> 01:10:37,920
This is this is where it's like, well, is it

1535
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:40,880
because he should be doing this or because Washington has to?

1536
01:10:41,239 --> 01:10:43,680
He's also kind of doubled his time of possession per

1537
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:45,720
game in terms of just like minutes on the ball.

1538
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:47,880
He's playing six more minutes a game this year, So

1539
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:50,279
it's not quite like a straight always two to one

1540
01:10:50,279 --> 01:10:53,680
did it, but like it's been a significant role shift

1541
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:59,920
for him. So like, ultimately, I don't know if we

1542
01:11:00,279 --> 01:11:03,920
or the Wizards should see him as someone that really

1543
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:07,359
will be on the ball a lot. I think where

1544
01:11:07,399 --> 01:11:09,720
I land though, is that it is a positive that

1545
01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:13,840
at this early juncture of his career, Coolbally is like

1546
01:11:14,359 --> 01:11:18,319
at least sort of like testing the bounds of like

1547
01:11:18,399 --> 01:11:20,720
what can I be as an on ball guy? Because

1548
01:11:21,079 --> 01:11:23,279
the best version of him is he is a do

1549
01:11:23,399 --> 01:11:27,119
it all, you know, first option big wing, Like that's

1550
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:29,159
that's if you could draw it up, that's like his

1551
01:11:29,279 --> 01:11:33,119
hundredth percentile outcome. That's that's absolutely ideal. It's optimal. So

1552
01:11:33,239 --> 01:11:37,640
I'm encouraged that Washington seems to be viewing it that

1553
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:40,520
way too, And it's not like, well, let's specialize him

1554
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:42,720
somehow or let's let him only stick to what he's

1555
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:45,239
good at, which at this point is like how do

1556
01:11:45,279 --> 01:11:48,680
you even determine that? So like if you're just looking

1557
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:52,720
like pure numbers. I think maybe you're discouraged. The scoring

1558
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:54,720
average is up, but he's playing more, is shooting more,

1559
01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:57,680
he's just making lower percentages, so it's like counting stat

1560
01:11:57,680 --> 01:12:01,359
stuff that can be you know, miss leading. I think

1561
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:05,239
the thing that I'm holding out hope with and like

1562
01:12:05,279 --> 01:12:08,359
I am encouraged by is just the role has changed

1563
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:11,319
enough to where I think the vision of the best

1564
01:12:11,439 --> 01:12:15,199
version of him is still there, and it's it's a

1565
01:12:15,239 --> 01:12:17,479
little easier to see it because you know, three and

1566
01:12:17,479 --> 01:12:20,279
a half assists a game this year that doesn't seem

1567
01:12:20,319 --> 01:12:23,000
like a lot. But doubling your assist percentage year over year,

1568
01:12:23,359 --> 01:12:27,119
not turning it over more. I think you can definitely

1569
01:12:27,239 --> 01:12:30,680
view that as like there's something here that feels like

1570
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:34,960
star quality years from now. But it's again, he's twenty,

1571
01:12:35,039 --> 01:12:37,800
Like I don't, how do you know? We we've like

1572
01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:40,560
sort of fetishized like this guy looks like someone who

1573
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:43,000
can do everything as a rookie, and he was billed

1574
01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:46,800
as like super raw. Have you based on this year

1575
01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:49,279
changed like that basic analysis?

1576
01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:52,039
Speaker 1: No, I think I've been happy with you mentioned the

1577
01:12:52,039 --> 01:12:54,960
possession time. I didn't realize like how big that it jumps.

1578
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:56,039
But I think when you watch me, you can tell

1579
01:12:56,079 --> 01:12:58,000
they're on the ball more. He's driving more, and so

1580
01:12:58,119 --> 01:13:01,000
to get that sample size and if you decide, okay, hey,

1581
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:03,680
it needs to be lowered or stay here, tapered off whatever.

1582
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:06,720
At the same time, like you already kind of mentioned

1583
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:10,159
the playmaking reason he's made a lot better than last year,

1584
01:13:10,239 --> 01:13:12,560
the fact that the finishing at the rim has not

1585
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:15,000
only held up but gotten a lot better too. I

1586
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:16,720
think that's a big deal for him. And so even

1587
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:18,960
if there's I want to call it the worst case scenario,

1588
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:21,479
but maybe more of a modest outcome for him on

1589
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:23,880
the offensive end, like him being able to do that.

1590
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:25,880
I think he is someone who I would like to

1591
01:13:25,880 --> 01:13:28,119
see set more screens. I know someone of his size

1592
01:13:28,159 --> 01:13:31,399
is not particularly used in that ILK, but because of

1593
01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:33,920
the way that he's like, he can finish through contact,

1594
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:35,800
and so I might like to see him, especially when

1595
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:38,119
you're playing with Alex Sar, who can be a floor

1596
01:13:38,159 --> 01:13:40,640
spacing big and maybe you don't want him screening all

1597
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:42,520
the time. I would love to see more of that,

1598
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:44,079
and maybe we could just as like they get a

1599
01:13:44,079 --> 01:13:45,760
better feel for who he is and the roster around

1600
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:49,199
him becomes more cemented. I guess I would frame it

1601
01:13:49,199 --> 01:13:50,960
this way. I might be a little bit lower on

1602
01:13:51,039 --> 01:13:54,079
him offensively, just because after two years, if you don't

1603
01:13:54,079 --> 01:13:56,439
think he's gonna be an efficient on the ball score

1604
01:13:56,479 --> 01:13:58,880
so it's okay, do you think he's gonna be a

1605
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:02,039
Jimmy Butler or George just on the level of that player.

1606
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:05,319
It feels like we're getting further and further away from that, hope.

1607
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:08,199
But I feel better about him overall because I think

1608
01:14:08,199 --> 01:14:09,840
there are different ways you can use him on offense

1609
01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:12,359
and as the playmaking jump that we both mentioned. And

1610
01:14:12,399 --> 01:14:14,479
then you haven't said this yet because I don't think

1611
01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:17,760
we need to. He had an incredibly difficult defensive role

1612
01:14:18,079 --> 01:14:20,880
last year. It has gotten harder this year and he

1613
01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:21,760
has gotten better.

1614
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:24,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so the defense is like I don't I'm

1615
01:14:24,319 --> 01:14:26,680
not concerned about the defense at all, Like that that's

1616
01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:27,159
still there.

1617
01:14:27,359 --> 01:14:29,560
Speaker 1: So I think when you package that together, it makes

1618
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:32,840
the offensive and uncertainty. At this point, would you say

1619
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:37,479
it's more excus more intriguing than alarming, Like, it's way

1620
01:14:37,479 --> 01:14:40,079
more intriguing than alarming when he could be on offense right.

1621
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:42,479
Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, because the shooting regression was like, all right,

1622
01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:45,479
that's you would have probably guessed that he wouldn't be

1623
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:49,319
as efficient as a shooter. And like, I think ultimately too,

1624
01:14:49,399 --> 01:14:53,159
I've said ultimately like five times that it's so hard

1625
01:14:53,239 --> 01:14:56,319
to divorce like what he has improved at or regressed

1626
01:14:56,319 --> 01:15:00,640
that from the situation like this team is Washington team

1627
01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:04,119
is so young and so uninterested in winning games to

1628
01:15:04,199 --> 01:15:06,239
where like who's to say that if you didn't put

1629
01:15:06,279 --> 01:15:08,760
like two good shooters around him, he might have more

1630
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:11,119
space to operate in the assist rate would be even higher,

1631
01:15:11,119 --> 01:15:13,399
and he would be shooting thirty four percent from three

1632
01:15:13,439 --> 01:15:16,840
just because you know, like we can say this about

1633
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:19,520
every bad team, but the Wizards are like so bad

1634
01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:23,199
that it really you can't pretend it doesn't affect like

1635
01:15:23,359 --> 01:15:25,199
what he's able to do on the floor. So like,

1636
01:15:25,199 --> 01:15:27,960
if anything, maybe the fact that he's made any growth

1637
01:15:27,960 --> 01:15:29,960
at all is like, well, we should view that as

1638
01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:32,439
like a three x improvement just because of the context.

1639
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:34,760
Speaker 1: And I kind of wonder, I mean, he's had some

1640
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:37,560
good talent, like when you're looking at Jordan Poole, when

1641
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:39,800
you're looking at Malcolm Brogden, and he did have Tye

1642
01:15:39,800 --> 01:15:41,880
shoones last year's like well, well, the quality of his off

1643
01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:43,800
ball shots go because you look at okay sub thirty

1644
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:46,119
two percent on catch and shoot threes, because that's sort

1645
01:15:46,159 --> 01:15:48,159
of the that's the low hang. If you want to

1646
01:15:48,199 --> 01:15:51,039
feel good about Black Colabara being a potential future All Star,

1647
01:15:51,399 --> 01:15:54,479
it's this exact player you're watching right now, basically, But

1648
01:15:54,560 --> 01:15:57,359
can he shoot thirty six thirty seven percent on what

1649
01:15:57,439 --> 01:16:01,119
is mostly a diet of okay catching shoot wide open threes?

1650
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:05,000
And when you watch his jumper at least it's not

1651
01:16:05,039 --> 01:16:06,920
all like this guy's a hopeless shooter. And I guess

1652
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:09,199
it's easier because we have a proof of concept to

1653
01:16:09,199 --> 01:16:12,520
some extent from last year, maybe boils done, Like does

1654
01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:14,920
his offensive role need to be streamlined a little bit,

1655
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:17,800
not to say like marginalized, but when he goes into

1656
01:16:18,279 --> 01:16:20,479
it either needs to be marginalized or is it just

1657
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:23,560
does he need better players getting him the ball to

1658
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:27,199
where it's okay? As bub Carrington grows as an example,

1659
01:16:27,279 --> 01:16:29,680
or maybe as they get another type of playmaker in there,

1660
01:16:30,119 --> 01:16:31,960
is that going to make his job even easier.

1661
01:16:32,039 --> 01:16:33,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why I think it is kind of a

1662
01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:38,039
philosophical thing, and I skew towards I think it's just

1663
01:16:38,079 --> 01:16:40,159
better that he's being like sort of forced to do

1664
01:16:40,239 --> 01:16:42,359
on ball stuff. Oh, I agree, you know what I mean,

1665
01:16:42,439 --> 01:16:46,439
like he yeah, But I think you're right, Like if

1666
01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:50,800
the Wizards just I don't know, limited him in so

1667
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:53,479
far as that's possible, when he is clearly just you know,

1668
01:16:53,560 --> 01:16:56,239
one of the best, most accomplished players on a team,

1669
01:16:56,560 --> 01:16:59,920
like you could see better. You might have more incur

1670
01:17:00,079 --> 01:17:02,359
ridging numbers in a lot of ways. But I think

1671
01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:04,960
you've got to you need to view his age twenty

1672
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:07,520
season as like, how is how is this helping his

1673
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:10,199
age twenty four season? Like I think I think so

1674
01:17:10,279 --> 01:17:12,039
in that sense, I think the Wizards are doing it right,

1675
01:17:12,079 --> 01:17:14,279
even though it makes it feel like he's gotten worse

1676
01:17:14,319 --> 01:17:15,800
in a lot of regards.

1677
01:17:15,479 --> 01:17:17,640
Speaker 1: Where I do I think where I think that they

1678
01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:19,359
might be getting it wrong. But again, I don't know

1679
01:17:19,359 --> 01:17:22,039
if this comes down to a personnel issue. Is if

1680
01:17:22,239 --> 01:17:24,960
just going back to Victor Webenyam former teammates and they're

1681
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:27,439
they're not the same type of player. I think this

1682
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:30,239
burs have done a great job of we know what

1683
01:17:30,359 --> 01:17:32,520
he can do away from the ball and on from

1684
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:34,800
the ball both, and he's a central part of what

1685
01:17:34,840 --> 01:17:37,359
they're doing. But like some of that stuff helped, like

1686
01:17:37,399 --> 01:17:39,560
they bring in Chris Paul this year. I don't know

1687
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:42,119
if the Wizards have yet given black Coolaba that opportunity

1688
01:17:42,119 --> 01:17:44,279
because the low hanging fruit feels like, why isn't he

1689
01:17:44,319 --> 01:17:46,039
cutting more? Why isn't he just moving a when he

1690
01:17:46,079 --> 01:17:48,239
doesn't have the ball more. I mentioned the screening thing

1691
01:17:48,279 --> 01:17:49,720
we've seen like some of it, but not a ton,

1692
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:51,800
and it was something I noticed, or I think that

1693
01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:54,800
I noticed during his rookie season, so I want, like

1694
01:17:54,880 --> 01:17:56,800
to see more of that. And I just keep coming

1695
01:17:56,840 --> 01:17:59,199
back to, yeah, they're the on ball reps, like the

1696
01:17:59,239 --> 01:18:01,800
celt the frumps. Those are important and I'm glad they're

1697
01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:03,720
giving them to him, But I'm like, well, why aren't

1698
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:06,119
we trying miss stuff? And it comes back to do

1699
01:18:06,159 --> 01:18:08,159
you think that they even have the personnel to do that? Though?

1700
01:18:08,319 --> 01:18:10,680
Speaker 2: I guess maybe the way of asking you, yeah, maybe

1701
01:18:10,760 --> 01:18:14,600
you can only like I don't know, like road test

1702
01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:17,039
a couple things at once, and like they could have

1703
01:18:17,119 --> 01:18:19,479
chosen to, yes, what you're gonna set ten screens of

1704
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:22,000
game or something, and let's see what happened, Like maybe

1705
01:18:22,039 --> 01:18:23,840
you just can't you just have the bandwidth for that,

1706
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:26,039
because you're also trying to develop Alex sar and you're

1707
01:18:26,039 --> 01:18:27,960
trying to see what bub Carrington can do, and you got,

1708
01:18:28,199 --> 01:18:29,960
you know, a bunch of other priorities. I think it's

1709
01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:33,439
hard to do all that at once. I'm encouraged by

1710
01:18:33,439 --> 01:18:35,640
the choice that they made that, like they went with

1711
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:38,560
the time on the ball stuff. But yeah, I mean

1712
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:40,319
it's a credit to a cool BALI that like, yeah,

1713
01:18:40,359 --> 01:18:43,520
you could imagine them deciding instead that it was better

1714
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:45,800
to try these other three things, right, because he probably

1715
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:48,039
could do those things. Like that's maybe that's where we

1716
01:18:48,119 --> 01:18:51,640
leave it is. I think I think I'm I think

1717
01:18:51,640 --> 01:18:56,359
I have to go stock down, But I think part

1718
01:18:56,359 --> 01:18:58,479
of the reason it's down is because he's being asked

1719
01:18:58,520 --> 01:19:00,920
to try stuff that might ultimately raise his stock, like

1720
01:19:00,960 --> 01:19:03,159
on a five year timeline. Does that make sense?

1721
01:19:03,359 --> 01:19:05,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'll go stock neutral for the same reason

1722
01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:07,640
because I think that the number if you wanted to

1723
01:19:07,680 --> 01:19:09,920
have someone who was being used in a different way

1724
01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:12,560
on offense, like you might just have a more efficient player.

1725
01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:15,079
But like the fact that I still feel the fact

1726
01:19:15,079 --> 01:19:17,760
that they feel like they should be giving him this exploration.

1727
01:19:17,840 --> 01:19:21,359
Then coupled with not only wasn't their defensive regression off

1728
01:19:21,399 --> 01:19:24,840
of last year but there was like active defensive improvement

1729
01:19:24,920 --> 01:19:27,359
in a tougher role, Like that's big, so I'll go

1730
01:19:27,399 --> 01:19:29,600
stock neutral And that's more so I was. We were

1731
01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:31,600
both so high on block cool bold to begin with

1732
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:33,520
that for me to have felt a lot better, he

1733
01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:35,760
would have to be shooting, like, oh, look, he's like

1734
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:38,119
on self created threes, he' shooting like thirty six percent

1735
01:19:38,239 --> 01:19:41,600
or something. Just not now because I lied before. We

1736
01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:44,439
are entering the quick hitter portion of the podcast. So

1737
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:47,439
going through some stock up stock down for these sophomores,

1738
01:19:48,439 --> 01:19:51,880
Grant Jars Walker stock up stock down, I.

1739
01:19:51,960 --> 01:19:56,159
Speaker 2: Think it's down overall, Like I don't we weren't super

1740
01:19:56,239 --> 01:19:58,199
high on him last year. I think he's got like

1741
01:19:58,399 --> 01:20:01,439
for me is like maximum confusion, maximum intrigue. I still

1742
01:20:01,479 --> 01:20:05,680
think it's like he I don't know. He played incredibly

1743
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:07,800
well against the Calves the other night, made a bunch

1744
01:20:07,840 --> 01:20:10,000
of dumb mistakes at the same time, Like is he

1745
01:20:10,039 --> 01:20:12,520
a playmaker? Is he the good off ball defender who

1746
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:14,680
was supposed to be in the draft. He's thirty seven

1747
01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:17,159
thirty eight percent as a three point shooter, Like okay,

1748
01:20:17,199 --> 01:20:21,039
so what's why aren't we playing him more? Like I

1749
01:20:20,399 --> 01:20:22,840
I he's getting squeezed now because you got to play

1750
01:20:22,840 --> 01:20:24,720
aeron Nee Smith and that moves Mather into the bench,

1751
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:27,960
And like, I just I guess it's down because if

1752
01:20:28,000 --> 01:20:30,760
he were that great he we wouldn't be having to

1753
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:33,439
figure out ways to get him on the floor. But

1754
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:35,840
I remain intrigued. I just I don't know what a

1755
01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:37,000
Jarris Walker is.

1756
01:20:37,640 --> 01:20:39,880
Speaker 1: I and that would encapsulate what I'm gonna say, which

1757
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:43,119
is also stock down. And I think one of the

1758
01:20:43,159 --> 01:20:46,600
bigger disconnects is based off what he was builed coming

1759
01:20:46,600 --> 01:20:49,680
out of college. I feel better about him as a

1760
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:51,920
plug and play offensive player, which was my big one

1761
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:54,479
of my bigger concerns for him, than I do about

1762
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:58,079
like him becoming someone that can positively impact the defense

1763
01:20:58,079 --> 01:21:00,239
outside of okay, maybe we'll have some counting stats, but

1764
01:21:00,279 --> 01:21:02,079
he feels too all over the place at that. But

1765
01:21:02,079 --> 01:21:04,119
then I also he hasn't gotten a ton of reps,

1766
01:21:04,159 --> 01:21:07,119
like relative to where he was drafted in India right.

1767
01:21:07,119 --> 01:21:10,600
Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, I think the stock down puts a lot

1768
01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:14,840
of faith in the Pacers like correctly evaluating what he

1769
01:21:14,880 --> 01:21:16,680
can and can't do, which I think is a reasonable

1770
01:21:16,720 --> 01:21:19,640
position to take, like cause if if he were I

1771
01:21:19,680 --> 01:21:23,079
don't feel like he's being unjustly like marginalized. I think

1772
01:21:23,079 --> 01:21:26,279
it's because like he has real deficiencies and makes mistakes

1773
01:21:26,279 --> 01:21:27,359
and that kind of thing.

1774
01:21:27,319 --> 01:21:29,479
Speaker 1: And they're just like you could say there's a discrepancy

1775
01:21:29,520 --> 01:21:32,159
in timeline, but like they still rely on Benedic Mathren.

1776
01:21:32,199 --> 01:21:33,600
And I don't know how much him having the extra

1777
01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:36,560
year matters, but I think you could argue that, well,

1778
01:21:36,560 --> 01:21:38,600
I guess you have top it and Siakham and Turner.

1779
01:21:39,359 --> 01:21:42,680
You couldn't you argue though, that in theory, shouldn't as

1780
01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:45,520
a player type, shouldn't Jariss Walker be more important Indiana

1781
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:46,680
than Benic Mathrene or no?

1782
01:21:47,079 --> 01:21:49,239
Speaker 2: Yes, And that's why the fact that he's not playing

1783
01:21:49,319 --> 01:21:52,479
is like a pretty gnarly omen like because he should

1784
01:21:52,479 --> 01:21:54,399
be like they they could use him. I just don't

1785
01:21:54,399 --> 01:21:55,840
think they view him as helpful yet.

1786
01:21:57,079 --> 01:21:59,439
Speaker 1: Next up, great Dick Grant stock ups not.

1787
01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:02,479
Speaker 2: Down, it's down. I think I'm at the point now

1788
01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:06,439
where I feel like he so coming into the I've

1789
01:22:06,439 --> 01:22:09,560
almost circled back to like pre draft stuff because we

1790
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:11,359
doubt we had a dalliance with like, oh my god,

1791
01:22:11,399 --> 01:22:14,079
he's a playmaker. His assistant turnovers like one to one

1792
01:22:14,199 --> 01:22:17,439
this year, like that hasn't manifested after summer league stuff.

1793
01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:19,239
I kind of think he needs to be like a

1794
01:22:19,279 --> 01:22:22,439
forty three point shooter to have a positive impact because

1795
01:22:22,479 --> 01:22:24,880
the defense, he's getting targeted on defense all the time.

1796
01:22:26,199 --> 01:22:29,680
He It's just I just I just like, I don't

1797
01:22:29,680 --> 01:22:32,520
know what else he does well enough other than potentially

1798
01:22:32,560 --> 01:22:36,920
be a great shooter to like really be helpful. So

1799
01:22:37,319 --> 01:22:39,720
I'm I'm down. I'm down on Grady Dick. I think

1800
01:22:39,760 --> 01:22:43,199
I think like if the playmaking had been more real

1801
01:22:43,279 --> 01:22:45,439
or sustainable, I feel differently because the defense I just

1802
01:22:45,439 --> 01:22:46,880
don't think is going to be good enough either.

1803
01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:50,479
Speaker 1: I'm stock neutral on him. I think the defense, if

1804
01:22:50,520 --> 01:22:52,600
you're looking for someone I guess to target like in

1805
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:55,479
specific action, sure, I think he's shown more as like

1806
01:22:55,560 --> 01:22:56,840
kind of a helper and if he's going to be

1807
01:22:56,880 --> 01:22:59,960
able to make some certain like plays around the basket.

1808
01:23:00,479 --> 01:23:02,840
So I'm not as like a super low on his defense.

1809
01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:04,279
I don't expect him to be a good defender. I'm

1810
01:23:04,319 --> 01:23:07,000
not as low on the defensive outcome. I'd be very

1811
01:23:07,039 --> 01:23:09,039
curious to kind of just see, like the Raptors are

1812
01:23:09,039 --> 01:23:10,880
another team where's I would love to see what we've

1813
01:23:10,880 --> 01:23:13,079
seen him do on the ball. What happens if he

1814
01:23:13,119 --> 01:23:14,880
has better spacing to do it with, And so I

1815
01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:17,520
feel better about his on ball decision making than I

1816
01:23:17,520 --> 01:23:19,720
would have last year. And I think we'll eventually get

1817
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:21,520
to the point where they're shooting is just fine. But

1818
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:24,640
from that initial high this year, remember when we did,

1819
01:23:24,680 --> 01:23:27,439
I think we recorded an entire segment on him, like

1820
01:23:27,479 --> 01:23:29,239
they found like someone kind of more of a diamond

1821
01:23:29,239 --> 01:23:30,880
in the rough who can work on the ball in

1822
01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:34,159
addition to be a sniper away from it. I don't

1823
01:23:34,159 --> 01:23:35,560
feel that highly of him.

1824
01:23:35,640 --> 01:23:38,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and maybe that's our fault is like really, we

1825
01:23:38,640 --> 01:23:40,359
drink a little bit of the kool aid early of

1826
01:23:40,399 --> 01:23:42,239
Summer League, and earlier this year we did.

1827
01:23:42,239 --> 01:23:44,279
Speaker 1: But you mentioned this about pajem Ski and this is

1828
01:23:44,319 --> 01:23:46,880
more about the players around him. But like great Dix

1829
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:49,159
kind of lived through like eight different seasons when you're

1830
01:23:49,199 --> 01:23:50,920
looking at the available personnel.

1831
01:23:50,479 --> 01:23:52,319
Speaker 2: Around him, that's true. Yeah.

1832
01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:57,159
Speaker 1: Next up we have Cason Wallace. I could spend so

1833
01:23:57,319 --> 01:23:59,039
much We won't, but I could spend.

1834
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:03,359
Speaker 2: So much time ask you the is he again? It's early,

1835
01:24:04,359 --> 01:24:06,840
This is the wrong kind of question to ask. Is

1836
01:24:06,880 --> 01:24:12,159
he gonna be more than a good defender who makes

1837
01:24:12,159 --> 01:24:13,439
Stan still threes.

1838
01:24:15,880 --> 01:24:18,279
Speaker 1: Probably, I just don't see them asking him to do

1839
01:24:18,439 --> 01:24:21,520
that when you have can do that? Do you think no,

1840
01:24:21,680 --> 01:24:24,359
he can't. I think like there's a lot of it.

1841
01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:26,359
There might be more to what he can do. I

1842
01:24:26,359 --> 01:24:30,359
think we saw more from him, like even probably because Okay,

1843
01:24:30,399 --> 01:24:33,079
Alex Caruso is not there at that point. I know

1844
01:24:33,079 --> 01:24:35,479
Alex Russo was banged up, uh for a good chunk

1845
01:24:35,520 --> 01:24:37,880
of this season. Like we kind of saw a little

1846
01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:39,920
bit more from him, it felt like as a driver

1847
01:24:40,319 --> 01:24:42,880
last year, and that we're not getting the same sample

1848
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:44,520
size on where it feels like he's more likely to

1849
01:24:44,560 --> 01:24:47,880
be kind of displaced away and used in quote unquote

1850
01:24:47,880 --> 01:24:50,640
as a spacer. And I feel he's not hitting It's

1851
01:24:50,680 --> 01:24:52,279
like he's been a little bit better lately, I believe,

1852
01:24:52,319 --> 01:24:54,560
but he's not like hitting his threes at the same

1853
01:24:54,600 --> 01:24:58,199
clip compared to last year either. So it's it's tough,

1854
01:24:58,199 --> 01:25:00,439
But I don't think I haven't seen anything that makes

1855
01:25:00,439 --> 01:25:03,159
me think he's gonna be more dynamic on offense. And

1856
01:25:03,159 --> 01:25:05,119
I think it will get only harder for him to

1857
01:25:05,159 --> 01:25:08,239
even have the opportunity to showcase that if he's in

1858
01:25:08,279 --> 01:25:11,880
Oklahoma City, just because Nicola topic is eventually going to play,

1859
01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:13,520
and that's someone that they probably view is going to

1860
01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:14,399
do more on the ball.

1861
01:25:14,880 --> 01:25:18,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think like if he could, if Wallace could,

1862
01:25:19,319 --> 01:25:21,479
if he were two inches taller or like played like

1863
01:25:21,520 --> 01:25:24,279
a six six sixty seven guy as opposed to he's

1864
01:25:24,319 --> 01:25:27,720
a shooting guard really like size wise, and like I

1865
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:31,199
think my evaluation of him would be different because like

1866
01:25:31,359 --> 01:25:34,960
he just if you're gonna be his size and he

1867
01:25:35,039 --> 01:25:37,199
takes three point one, three is a game two point

1868
01:25:37,199 --> 01:25:39,039
seven or catch and shoot. So he's just like he

1869
01:25:39,159 --> 01:25:42,000
is doing nothing as an off the dribble shooter. That's

1870
01:25:42,079 --> 01:25:44,720
that's partly just the team. Like I like, that's just

1871
01:25:45,039 --> 01:25:47,840
what those are the breaks when you have Shay and Jada,

1872
01:25:47,960 --> 01:25:50,199
and like, you're just not going to be an on

1873
01:25:50,279 --> 01:25:53,840
ball type of guy. I just think like if he

1874
01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:56,800
were a little bigger, then then you're just a three

1875
01:25:56,840 --> 01:25:59,079
and D player, Because I do think he's somewhere in

1876
01:25:59,119 --> 01:26:01,279
between the forty two percent in the thirty three percent

1877
01:26:01,319 --> 01:26:03,199
of his last two years. I think like he's he's

1878
01:26:03,239 --> 01:26:05,800
thirty seven ish or whatever, and he has been better,

1879
01:26:06,119 --> 01:26:08,039
way better than that from the corners in the past.

1880
01:26:08,520 --> 01:26:11,039
But at his size, you gotta have a little bit

1881
01:26:11,119 --> 01:26:14,479
on ball type of stuff. Otherwise you're you're just not

1882
01:26:14,600 --> 01:26:16,279
gonna really be hugely impactful.

1883
01:26:16,399 --> 01:26:20,239
Speaker 1: He's he's actually a more frequent driver this year, So

1884
01:26:20,279 --> 01:26:22,720
I was wrong about that. Maybe the Alex Alex Caruso's

1885
01:26:22,720 --> 01:26:25,279
absence maybe bumped up that volume a little bit. Could

1886
01:26:25,319 --> 01:26:30,000
you see him being maybe a like a Malcolm Brogden type.

1887
01:26:30,079 --> 01:26:31,960
I know he was more dynamic at his best, but

1888
01:26:32,319 --> 01:26:34,199
he'll do a lot of his playmaking out of the drives.

1889
01:26:34,199 --> 01:26:35,680
And that's where something where I think Casey Willis has

1890
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:36,960
at least shown them that he can do that.

1891
01:26:37,359 --> 01:26:39,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think maybe, Like so he's I got the drives,

1892
01:26:39,960 --> 01:26:42,520
so four point one drives up from two point three,

1893
01:26:43,039 --> 01:26:45,479
but he's playing seven more minutes a game, so it

1894
01:26:45,520 --> 01:26:48,079
gets an increase, but I don't know how substantial it is.

1895
01:26:48,119 --> 01:26:51,039
And his free throw attempts are down despite playing more.

1896
01:26:51,079 --> 01:26:53,920
Speaker 1: So like how great on drives is up? Though?

1897
01:26:54,119 --> 01:26:57,279
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, like he So that's the thing is

1898
01:26:57,279 --> 01:26:59,239
like he doesn't seem like he's gonna be a finisher,

1899
01:26:59,399 --> 01:27:02,039
but he can be someone that's driving and maybe springing

1900
01:27:02,079 --> 01:27:04,279
the ball out that that's a possibility. That's that's probably

1901
01:27:04,319 --> 01:27:07,920
the growth area, right is Like he develops another year

1902
01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:09,880
of a reputation as being a great three point shooter.

1903
01:27:10,000 --> 01:27:11,800
Defenses react to him that way, and he can drive

1904
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:13,920
and find guys. I think maybe that's like how he

1905
01:27:14,239 --> 01:27:15,800
adds a little marginal value.

1906
01:27:16,119 --> 01:27:18,000
Speaker 1: Now would that make you? Does that mean your stock

1907
01:27:18,079 --> 01:27:20,199
down on him or you stock neutral based on where

1908
01:27:20,199 --> 01:27:21,199
we were with him last year.

1909
01:27:21,239 --> 01:27:23,199
Speaker 2: I think I'd go stock neutral because I kind of

1910
01:27:23,199 --> 01:27:25,800
felt last year that he's a limited three and D

1911
01:27:25,920 --> 01:27:26,560
type guy.

1912
01:27:27,039 --> 01:27:30,399
Speaker 1: And forty on three since January first, and so, like

1913
01:27:30,399 --> 01:27:32,600
you said, it's probably somewhere between the forty two percent

1914
01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:34,319
last year and the thirty three percent this year. I

1915
01:27:34,359 --> 01:27:36,600
don't if he is a forty percent three point shooter.

1916
01:27:36,640 --> 01:27:39,000
I think it'll be sort of the of the Alex

1917
01:27:39,039 --> 01:27:41,199
Caruso mould last year, where it's all right, well, it's

1918
01:27:41,199 --> 01:27:43,039
not coming on like an insane volume.

1919
01:27:43,159 --> 01:27:44,399
Speaker 2: Right Yeah. I agree.

1920
01:27:45,159 --> 01:27:49,159
Speaker 1: Our next player, Kiante George, this is I'm gonna start here.

1921
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:52,840
My stock is down because my stock was too high

1922
01:27:53,119 --> 01:27:55,960
last year. Like I was smitten. I think if I

1923
01:27:56,000 --> 01:28:00,439
asked you, what do you feel best about for his

1924
01:28:00,520 --> 01:28:02,319
game right now? What would be the answer.

1925
01:28:04,039 --> 01:28:08,079
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess it's like his potential to be

1926
01:28:08,159 --> 01:28:11,319
in off the dribble three point shooter that you can't

1927
01:28:11,359 --> 01:28:14,199
go under screens on. Maybe like that's a niche thing,

1928
01:28:14,239 --> 01:28:16,680
but I feel like that's of the options. I like

1929
01:28:16,720 --> 01:28:17,279
that the best.

1930
01:28:18,399 --> 01:28:20,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would probably say like I feel the best

1931
01:28:20,359 --> 01:28:23,680
about his passing because wasn't the question of him coming

1932
01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:24,840
out like Alwy is he going to be able to

1933
01:28:24,840 --> 01:28:27,159
be that type of playmaker? And I think as the

1934
01:28:27,239 --> 01:28:29,600
jazz get better, you can envision it a little bit

1935
01:28:29,680 --> 01:28:31,479
more like just the live dribble things that he does.

1936
01:28:31,479 --> 01:28:33,359
They're not always good decisions. They want to make that clear.

1937
01:28:33,399 --> 01:28:35,560
I think some people just say, like I say a Collier,

1938
01:28:35,640 --> 01:28:37,199
like that's going to be the guy. And it might

1939
01:28:37,239 --> 01:28:40,760
even be I was Canta Georgia third guard type of playmaker.

1940
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:43,840
And if that's a question we're asking, I have to

1941
01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:45,760
go stop them because I was prepared to say, like,

1942
01:28:45,840 --> 01:28:49,199
oh this is SOMEONEO like run your primary Rofen. I

1943
01:28:49,279 --> 01:28:53,119
will still say the aesthetics of his game, like in

1944
01:28:53,159 --> 01:28:54,840
terms of getting to his spots or getting off those

1945
01:28:54,840 --> 01:28:58,319
off the dribble jumpers, the efficiency just doesn't align with it.

1946
01:28:58,560 --> 01:29:02,479
But it doesn't like it looks like it looks so.

1947
01:29:02,479 --> 01:29:05,279
Speaker 2: Much better that it be like when he takes a

1948
01:29:05,319 --> 01:29:07,520
three off the dribble, it looks like that's what he's

1949
01:29:07,520 --> 01:29:10,119
supposed to be doing. You're like, yes, as if you

1950
01:29:10,199 --> 01:29:12,239
didn't know any of the percentages and you just walked

1951
01:29:12,239 --> 01:29:13,720
in the gym and saw him shoot that shot, I'd

1952
01:29:13,720 --> 01:29:15,560
be like, yeah, of course he should. Like that's that.

1953
01:29:15,760 --> 01:29:17,880
That checks out. But the numbers just aren't there.

1954
01:29:18,680 --> 01:29:20,840
Speaker 1: No, they're not. So I'm stocked down on him. What

1955
01:29:20,880 --> 01:29:21,439
did you go with?

1956
01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:24,119
Speaker 2: I think I'm down, although I will go back and

1957
01:29:24,239 --> 01:29:26,319
site we talked. Whenever we talked about him last I

1958
01:29:26,359 --> 01:29:29,159
had this ridiculous list of guys that had played as

1959
01:29:29,239 --> 01:29:30,960
much as he had and shot as much as he

1960
01:29:31,039 --> 01:29:33,399
had over his first two years and been as inefficient

1961
01:29:33,439 --> 01:29:35,439
as he's been. And there's a lot of all stars

1962
01:29:35,439 --> 01:29:38,439
on that list, So like, you know, the ceiling might

1963
01:29:38,479 --> 01:29:41,000
still be there. But again, I like you was probably

1964
01:29:41,800 --> 01:29:43,359
too high on him last year, so we got to

1965
01:29:43,399 --> 01:29:44,880
go down the This.

1966
01:29:44,880 --> 01:29:46,680
Speaker 1: Probably shouldn't be the thing I'm focusing on. But like,

1967
01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:49,279
he's just still sub thirty nine percent on the pull

1968
01:29:49,319 --> 01:29:51,479
up two pointers, and like those the shots that I

1969
01:29:51,520 --> 01:29:54,039
watched him take, and I'm like, no, like those those

1970
01:29:54,119 --> 01:29:55,920
like when he he takes it. I think they're gonna

1971
01:29:55,960 --> 01:29:57,840
go in Like those were even shots, maybe more so

1972
01:29:57,920 --> 01:30:00,720
than the off the dribble threes, and he's taking more

1973
01:30:00,720 --> 01:30:04,279
of the author dribble threes. So yes, stock down. Not

1974
01:30:04,359 --> 01:30:06,199
completely out on him though, which I don't think we're

1975
01:30:06,239 --> 01:30:09,600
completely out on anybody that we've been discussing. Brandon Miller

1976
01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:13,000
right risk injury, so he's not playing again this season.

1977
01:30:13,039 --> 01:30:16,600
Limited sample size, I.

1978
01:30:16,520 --> 01:30:20,399
Speaker 2: Think, well, yeah, so a couple of different years because

1979
01:30:20,399 --> 01:30:22,199
one kind of had one had a lot of LaMelo,

1980
01:30:22,239 --> 01:30:25,640
and one really didn't. The thing that jumped out to

1981
01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:29,319
me is that he actually was a positive defender this

1982
01:30:29,439 --> 01:30:32,000
year and made a massive leap. Some of that's got

1983
01:30:32,000 --> 01:30:34,520
to be context, but like he was an eighth percentile

1984
01:30:34,720 --> 01:30:37,640
defensive estimated plus minus as a rookie to sixty second

1985
01:30:37,840 --> 01:30:40,359
as a sophomore. Now Charlotte has been kind of a

1986
01:30:40,399 --> 01:30:43,399
mess all year, But like, I don't really have a

1987
01:30:43,439 --> 01:30:47,800
lot of questions about Miller being at the very least

1988
01:30:47,800 --> 01:30:51,000
a dangerous, high volume three point shooter that develops into

1989
01:30:51,039 --> 01:30:54,319
someone who can also you know, punish smaller like DeAndre

1990
01:30:54,399 --> 01:30:57,279
Hunter's style, like punished smaller matchups getting to you know,

1991
01:30:57,359 --> 01:31:00,039
easy two's type of thing. So the fact that the

1992
01:31:00,039 --> 01:31:04,239
defense is coming along, I mean, again smallest sample because

1993
01:31:04,239 --> 01:31:07,039
he didn't he missed more than half the year. That's

1994
01:31:07,039 --> 01:31:10,119
pretty encouraging to me. So where are you on him

1995
01:31:10,119 --> 01:31:11,960
on either of the either offense or defense.

1996
01:31:12,720 --> 01:31:15,479
Speaker 1: So defense, my I'm stock neutral because I thought he

1997
01:31:15,479 --> 01:31:18,239
was a really good defender last year too, and just

1998
01:31:18,279 --> 01:31:20,000
as someone who can play I mean, I know, what

1999
01:31:20,079 --> 01:31:22,039
is he six', nine but like the plays that he

2000
01:31:22,079 --> 01:31:23,720
can make around the basket as, well and then you

2001
01:31:23,720 --> 01:31:25,880
look at his ball denial and his ability to like

2002
01:31:25,920 --> 01:31:29,079
guard up and down the positional. Spectrum i'm just stock

2003
01:31:29,159 --> 01:31:31,880
neutral BECAUSE i don't have questions about his. Defense AND

2004
01:31:31,960 --> 01:31:34,640
i will say that compared to what we thought about

2005
01:31:34,680 --> 01:31:38,800
him coming out of, COLLEGE i am higher on his offense. Overall,

2006
01:31:38,960 --> 01:31:41,039
yeah BUT i don't, know like what is the wheelhouse

2007
01:31:41,079 --> 01:31:43,479
outside Of, okay he's going to shoot a high volume

2008
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:45,880
of catch and shoot. Threes AND i find myself last

2009
01:31:45,920 --> 01:31:48,359
year maybe because there was so like they needed to,

2010
01:31:48,479 --> 01:31:50,840
experiment so my baseline was so. Low it was all,

2011
01:31:50,880 --> 01:31:52,640
right look at this self created shots he's making when

2012
01:31:52,680 --> 01:31:53,800
he gets to his spots in the middle of the.

2013
01:31:53,800 --> 01:31:55,760
Floor look at kind of the things he was doing

2014
01:31:56,079 --> 01:31:58,720
as a. PASSER i just wonder, Like, okay well can

2015
01:31:58,760 --> 01:32:01,439
that be scaled? Up AND i don't think we got.

2016
01:32:01,479 --> 01:32:03,560
IT i, mean the sample size was so low this,

2017
01:32:03,680 --> 01:32:05,920
year SO i think it would be unfair to him

2018
01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:08,079
to go stock. Down but this is someone WHO i

2019
01:32:08,159 --> 01:32:10,479
was hoping, That, okay if you're going to play more

2020
01:32:10,479 --> 01:32:13,079
time With, LaMelo will your rim pressure go? Up it.

2021
01:32:13,079 --> 01:32:14,800
Didn't they didn't really have a moving off the ball

2022
01:32:14,840 --> 01:32:17,000
a ton. Either are we going to see someone who

2023
01:32:17,039 --> 01:32:20,920
can draw an appreciable number more of shooting fouls when

2024
01:32:20,920 --> 01:32:23,960
he's on the. Ball he has, Not so, again you

2025
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:25,560
can kind of look at the beginning of next year

2026
01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:29,359
will be an extension of his sophomore. Season i'm stock neutral,

2027
01:32:29,359 --> 01:32:31,239
though BECAUSE i THINK i would have confidently said at

2028
01:32:31,239 --> 01:32:33,119
the end of last year this is an ALL nba caliber.

2029
01:32:33,279 --> 01:32:36,720
PROSPECT i still believe, that but, YOU i think it'd

2030
01:32:36,720 --> 01:32:38,279
be an easier to sell me, on, oh, well this

2031
01:32:38,319 --> 01:32:41,319
is really more All star quality than ALL nba. Quality.

2032
01:32:41,439 --> 01:32:44,079
Speaker 2: YEAH i think The LaMelo of it all is complicating

2033
01:32:44,119 --> 01:32:47,319
things because Like miller's, assists the turnovers like four to

2034
01:32:47,359 --> 01:32:49,640
three this, year which is just like that's so it's, like,

2035
01:32:49,680 --> 01:32:52,560
WELL i then he can't and it was similarly bad last.

2036
01:32:52,640 --> 01:32:54,960
Year but it's like he's. Not as long As LaMelo is,

2037
01:32:55,000 --> 01:32:57,119
there he's not gonna be asked to be anything more

2038
01:32:57,159 --> 01:32:59,640
than a secondary facilitator Because LaMelo is gonna be on

2039
01:32:59,640 --> 01:33:02,319
the ball ton and the fact that, he you, know

2040
01:33:02,600 --> 01:33:04,399
he took a lot of threes last Year miller, did

2041
01:33:04,439 --> 01:33:06,079
and he took even more this, year to the point

2042
01:33:06,079 --> 01:33:08,920
that more than half his shots have been. THREES i

2043
01:33:08,960 --> 01:33:14,039
hope that he doesn't get pigeonholed as as like being

2044
01:33:14,199 --> 01:33:17,840
primarily just a catch and shoot, guy BECAUSE I i

2045
01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:20,359
do think So i'll go stock neutral for similar. Reasons

2046
01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:24,880
BUT i am a Little i'm a little concerned, that

2047
01:33:24,960 --> 01:33:27,039
like the context of the team is making it hard

2048
01:33:27,039 --> 01:33:30,039
to know whether he's, like you, know really being used

2049
01:33:30,119 --> 01:33:31,600
right or has a lot of chance for.

2050
01:33:31,800 --> 01:33:34,399
Speaker 1: Upside so maybe this might be the best way to

2051
01:33:34,399 --> 01:33:36,119
put it is that last YEAR i would have been

2052
01:33:36,119 --> 01:33:38,439
confident That, okay independent Of, LaMelo when you're looking, For,

2053
01:33:38,479 --> 01:33:40,920
okay who's the guy that will drive the offense Without

2054
01:33:41,000 --> 01:33:44,239
LaMelo on the, FLOOR i felt better about it being

2055
01:33:44,359 --> 01:33:48,039
him latier than this. SEASON i agree with, that And

2056
01:33:49,159 --> 01:33:50,960
i've seen some of this that because Of LaMelo AND

2057
01:33:50,960 --> 01:33:52,680
i think mort has even alluded to this when he's

2058
01:33:52,680 --> 01:33:55,920
been on the. Podcast LaMelo ball is not infringing Upon

2059
01:33:56,000 --> 01:33:58,680
Brandon miller's development or anyone else's and Like Brandon miller's

2060
01:33:58,680 --> 01:34:02,239
efficiency this year is nice day With LaMelo on Versus LaMelo,

2061
01:34:02,319 --> 01:34:04,840
off and so that this isn't at more, SPECIFICALLY i

2062
01:34:04,920 --> 01:34:08,560
Just i'm exhausted by the narrative surrounding like Just LaMelo.

2063
01:34:08,600 --> 01:34:10,680
Ball there's real issues to quibble. ABOUT i just feel

2064
01:34:10,680 --> 01:34:13,720
like we focus on the wrong things. Collectively who do

2065
01:34:13,760 --> 01:34:16,840
we have, Next grant Oh?

2066
01:34:16,880 --> 01:34:19,359
Speaker 2: Man things have changed for this, Guy Derek lively in

2067
01:34:19,359 --> 01:34:23,760
the SECOND i, mean how many, centers you, know young

2068
01:34:23,840 --> 01:34:26,359
centers were we hire on after last? Year, like not,

2069
01:34:27,399 --> 01:34:32,760
personally not a whole. LOT i think like, unfortunately our

2070
01:34:32,800 --> 01:34:35,600
evaluation of him has to depend on like somebody else,

2071
01:34:35,760 --> 01:34:38,880
basically because like what is he Without, luca without that

2072
01:34:38,960 --> 01:34:41,600
type of? Facilitator you, KNOW i, DON'T i don't, know we.

2073
01:34:41,640 --> 01:34:43,359
Haven't we haven't seen it because he was hurt When

2074
01:34:43,439 --> 01:34:43,880
luca got.

2075
01:34:43,880 --> 01:34:46,920
Speaker 1: TRADED i will SAY i think he was just as,

2076
01:34:46,960 --> 01:34:49,720
good if not, better, Defensively and we made a big

2077
01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:52,640
deal WHEN i remember we were doing last year Our Rookie,

2078
01:34:52,640 --> 01:34:54,760
awards or maybe it was A rookie stock. Report his

2079
01:34:54,840 --> 01:34:57,840
floor navigation away from the, ball even independent of having those,

2080
01:34:57,840 --> 01:35:01,199
screens that stuff is all. THERE i just don't. Know

2081
01:35:01,319 --> 01:35:03,000
i'll be stock neutral on. Him So i'm not gonna

2082
01:35:03,000 --> 01:35:04,399
say we haven't seen him play with That luka. Yet

2083
01:35:04,399 --> 01:35:05,920
SO i can't sit here and say he was so

2084
01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:08,760
dependent On, Luca like his trajectory is. Fucked AND i,

2085
01:35:08,760 --> 01:35:11,039
think by the, way the defensive trajectory is just still

2086
01:35:11,079 --> 01:35:13,000
like this is you had him on an all defense

2087
01:35:13,039 --> 01:35:15,920
team during our First Quarter, awards like that is STILL

2088
01:35:16,199 --> 01:35:18,239
i don't know if he's Defensive player of The year,

2089
01:35:18,520 --> 01:35:20,680
material but like the fact that he could be one

2090
01:35:20,680 --> 01:35:24,319
of the ten most valuable, defenders if that's, trajectory that's.

2091
01:35:24,359 --> 01:35:26,439
Huge i'll go stock. Neutral we haven't seen the. Sample

2092
01:35:26,479 --> 01:35:28,479
we haven't seen a large enough samples eyes in, general

2093
01:35:28,520 --> 01:35:31,119
but we have absolutely zero sample size of what does

2094
01:35:31,159 --> 01:35:32,840
he look like on a team that just doesn't Have

2095
01:35:33,279 --> 01:35:33,880
doncic at.

2096
01:35:33,880 --> 01:35:37,439
Speaker 2: All, YEAH i think you have to go. NEUTRAL i

2097
01:35:37,880 --> 01:35:40,279
LIKE i have NO i, mean we saw it like

2098
01:35:40,319 --> 01:35:43,399
he was the defensive anchor on a finals, Team so Like,

2099
01:35:43,640 --> 01:35:46,920
okay the box, Checked, like that's that's. It he's gonna

2100
01:35:47,079 --> 01:35:49,560
there's no reason That luca being there or not being

2101
01:35:49,600 --> 01:35:52,680
there will affect. THAT i just. Now the question next

2102
01:35:52,760 --> 01:35:54,239
year THAT i Think i'll be focused on is, like

2103
01:35:54,479 --> 01:35:56,840
can he Do is he a lob catcher and when

2104
01:35:56,840 --> 01:35:59,359
the lobs aren't, there he's got no offensive? Value or

2105
01:35:59,399 --> 01:36:01,479
can he become like a great? Screener can he become

2106
01:36:01,680 --> 01:36:04,520
like are there other? Ways is there like A Jared

2107
01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:07,960
jackson flip push shot arsenal that he can work on

2108
01:36:08,000 --> 01:36:09,640
like that kind of? Thing but, yeah it's gonna be

2109
01:36:09,680 --> 01:36:10,920
neutral for now because there's too much.

2110
01:36:11,000 --> 01:36:13,359
Speaker 1: Unknown, YEAH i mean The Anthony davis of it all,

2111
01:36:13,359 --> 01:36:14,920
too is, like, well what does he look like working with?

2112
01:36:15,000 --> 01:36:17,399
Babe arguably you could say two bigs With Anthony davis AND.

2113
01:36:17,439 --> 01:36:18,399
Pj washington on the.

2114
01:36:18,439 --> 01:36:20,279
Speaker 2: Floor yeah, RIGHT i will.

2115
01:36:20,079 --> 01:36:22,399
Speaker 1: Say BECAUSE i mentioned the floor navigation, BEFORE i am

2116
01:36:22,439 --> 01:36:24,439
confident that they could figure out how to make it.

2117
01:36:24,439 --> 01:36:26,640
Work BUT i don't, like is this a? Team will

2118
01:36:26,680 --> 01:36:28,800
they creative and run dual big pick and rolls Like

2119
01:36:28,920 --> 01:36:30,920
Anthony davids like WITH i don't, KNOW i don't, know

2120
01:36:31,000 --> 01:36:33,600
but we'll have to, say, uh super quick hitter portion

2121
01:36:33,640 --> 01:36:37,479
of the Podcast Julian strather with The Denver. NUGGETS i,

2122
01:36:37,479 --> 01:36:40,720
DON'T i mean to be, fair can you really go

2123
01:36:40,880 --> 01:36:42,520
stock down when he's actually playing?

2124
01:36:42,560 --> 01:36:47,720
Speaker 2: NOW i mean you, could because we've seen. MORE i

2125
01:36:47,800 --> 01:36:50,760
just don't HE'S i used it on The Grady Dick,

2126
01:36:51,039 --> 01:36:53,079
analysis but, LIKE i just think he needs to be an,

2127
01:36:53,079 --> 01:36:57,039
elite elite shooter to, matter and he's like been good,

2128
01:36:57,119 --> 01:36:59,800
enough but there's like nothing in the advanced metrics to recommend.

2129
01:36:59,880 --> 01:37:03,039
Him he's like a deeply damaging overall player by LIKE

2130
01:37:03,079 --> 01:37:06,640
epm and a lot of the other. CATCHALLS i just don't.

2131
01:37:06,680 --> 01:37:09,439
KNOW i don't know what he does that's gonna be

2132
01:37:09,920 --> 01:37:13,239
super helpful or justify him playing big minutes on a

2133
01:37:13,239 --> 01:37:16,000
team that has actually other options unless he's shooting forty,

2134
01:37:16,000 --> 01:37:18,159
Percent like, right That's that's kind of Where i'm. AT

2135
01:37:18,199 --> 01:37:19,840
i don't know if that's any different than last, year.

2136
01:37:19,720 --> 01:37:22,399
Speaker 1: THOUGH i feel a little bit stock up on him

2137
01:37:22,439 --> 01:37:24,520
BECAUSE i have, questions like the volume of shooting is

2138
01:37:24,520 --> 01:37:26,079
gonna be, There we'll go in. It what is he

2139
01:37:26,119 --> 01:37:29,039
at thirty six percent from three Since january? First will

2140
01:37:29,079 --> 01:37:30,800
that go? In but there's been a little, bit there's

2141
01:37:30,840 --> 01:37:32,479
been a few more layers to his game where it's

2142
01:37:32,520 --> 01:37:35,079
like as a driver That i've been a little bit

2143
01:37:35,119 --> 01:37:37,520
more intrigued, by is someone like moving away off the.

2144
01:37:37,560 --> 01:37:39,560
BALL i thought he's been a little bit better and

2145
01:37:39,600 --> 01:37:42,800
so like, That i'm gonna go slightly stock up even

2146
01:37:42,800 --> 01:37:46,039
like kind of handling THE nba physicality in certain. Instances

2147
01:37:46,119 --> 01:37:47,760
i'm gonna go a slight stock. Up but that's not

2148
01:37:47,800 --> 01:37:48,439
an easy one for.

2149
01:37:48,520 --> 01:37:51,079
Speaker 2: ME i, MEAN i guess he is actually making more

2150
01:37:51,079 --> 01:37:53,319
shots and playing more Like i'll go stock, Up BUT

2151
01:37:53,399 --> 01:37:55,720
i guess you said it at the. Start it's just

2152
01:37:55,800 --> 01:37:57,159
like it was so bad last.

2153
01:37:57,239 --> 01:38:00,119
Speaker 1: Year where was there to Go Ben sheppard grew and

2154
01:38:00,199 --> 01:38:02,560
stock up or stock? Dam what is a how?

2155
01:38:02,600 --> 01:38:04,800
Speaker 2: Come for the two pacers we've talked, ABOUT i have to,

2156
01:38:04,800 --> 01:38:07,000
say like what is a what is A Jaris? Walker

2157
01:38:07,000 --> 01:38:11,239
what is A Ben? SHEPHARD i think like kind of

2158
01:38:11,239 --> 01:38:14,359
a who, home like slightly above league average three point

2159
01:38:14,359 --> 01:38:18,520
shooter THAT i think his his defense is the carrying

2160
01:38:18,560 --> 01:38:20,960
skill and he can be like an eighth, guy which

2161
01:38:21,000 --> 01:38:23,359
is sort of what he, is uh when The pacers

2162
01:38:23,399 --> 01:38:26,119
are a. WHOLE i kind of felt that way last,

2163
01:38:26,159 --> 01:38:27,720
Year So i'm leaning neutral on.

2164
01:38:27,800 --> 01:38:32,079
Speaker 1: Him, Yeah i'm stock way. Up OKAY i as a

2165
01:38:32,079 --> 01:38:34,840
defender like the types of assignments he shouldered in his,

2166
01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:37,600
minutes huge and a better three point shooter THAN i

2167
01:38:37,640 --> 01:38:39,319
would have. Expected and we talked about. HIM i think

2168
01:38:39,359 --> 01:38:41,479
was coming out Of Summer, league like the defense of

2169
01:38:41,560 --> 01:38:43,600
grit and that being able to translate and the fact

2170
01:38:43,600 --> 01:38:46,720
that it has against LIKE i would, say outside assignment's,

2171
01:38:46,800 --> 01:38:49,279
point especially when The pacers were really banged up on the.

2172
01:38:49,319 --> 01:38:51,279
Perimeter remember they were dealing with injuries To naismith And

2173
01:38:51,319 --> 01:38:53,800
nemhard at one. Point if you, think and you said,

2174
01:38:53,800 --> 01:38:55,479
it if you think he's gonna be a slightly above

2175
01:38:55,520 --> 01:38:58,680
average like three point shooter relative of the, league my

2176
01:38:58,720 --> 01:39:00,239
stock is got his way up for him, HIM i

2177
01:39:00,319 --> 01:39:04,720
mean the mustache to marry him for, THAT i.

2178
01:39:04,560 --> 01:39:06,720
Speaker 2: Was just gonna, SAY i think it's the mustache that's

2179
01:39:06,800 --> 01:39:09,680
like throwing. Me It's. God we said this exact same.

2180
01:39:09,720 --> 01:39:15,039
Time actruly dubious with THE i don't trust. HIM i

2181
01:39:15,079 --> 01:39:15,520
don't trust.

2182
01:39:15,600 --> 01:39:18,279
Speaker 1: Him who we got coming up here?

2183
01:39:18,319 --> 01:39:22,039
Speaker 2: Next Man hi May hawk as what was He he

2184
01:39:22,199 --> 01:39:24,880
was like top sixth and rookie of the year and

2185
01:39:24,960 --> 01:39:27,680
like top ten and six man last year and found

2186
01:39:27,760 --> 01:39:29,479
himself out of the rotation for a. CHUNK i think

2187
01:39:29,479 --> 01:39:35,000
The jovic injury should get him more. Chances broken, record

2188
01:39:35,119 --> 01:39:38,279
it's the shooting under thirty percent from three this. Year

2189
01:39:38,279 --> 01:39:40,239
it was only like thirty two last. YEAR i think

2190
01:39:41,520 --> 01:39:44,439
that's offset by like he has he's, though he's playing

2191
01:39:44,479 --> 01:39:47,199
less free throw rates, up more rebounds assistant steals per.

2192
01:39:47,199 --> 01:39:49,600
Minute so that's illustrative of, like you, know he came

2193
01:39:49,640 --> 01:39:51,840
in billed as like he's going to do everything on

2194
01:39:51,880 --> 01:39:55,039
the margins to help you. Win so he's delivered on,

2195
01:39:55,159 --> 01:39:59,119
that but it's just the shooting looks like a real.

2196
01:39:59,239 --> 01:40:01,319
Problem think he's been better of. LATE i don't have

2197
01:40:01,359 --> 01:40:04,000
the splits in front of, me but if he again

2198
01:40:04,399 --> 01:40:06,159
we keep coming back to this now because we're talking

2199
01:40:06,199 --> 01:40:08,359
about role, players he needs to be close to the

2200
01:40:08,399 --> 01:40:11,479
league average as a three point. SHOOTER i, think or you,

2201
01:40:11,479 --> 01:40:14,119
know at least in the like low, thirties like thirty,

2202
01:40:14,159 --> 01:40:16,439
one thirty, two thirty. THREE a real.

2203
01:40:16,279 --> 01:40:18,520
Speaker 1: Volume, though because he had thirty four point two percent

2204
01:40:18,560 --> 01:40:21,319
Since january, first but it's two attempts per game and

2205
01:40:21,359 --> 01:40:21,600
that's just.

2206
01:40:21,600 --> 01:40:24,399
Speaker 2: Not, yeah, yeah, NO i THINK i think he just

2207
01:40:25,359 --> 01:40:27,960
the do it all. Game you, know one of the

2208
01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:30,159
components of do it all needs to be make like

2209
01:40:30,199 --> 01:40:32,520
a decent number of shots to where the defense cares about.

2210
01:40:32,520 --> 01:40:35,359
Speaker 1: YOU i ALSO i have more questions of him about

2211
01:40:35,359 --> 01:40:38,039
overall is plug and play offensively THAN i did, before,

2212
01:40:38,279 --> 01:40:40,199
Right and that was like sort of The so it's

2213
01:40:40,239 --> 01:40:42,159
like even independent of the three point, shooting if you

2214
01:40:42,159 --> 01:40:44,199
need him to have the ball in his hands or

2215
01:40:44,199 --> 01:40:48,079
he has to punish a mismatch in the, post like, What,

2216
01:40:48,279 --> 01:40:50,279
okay there's value in, that but like is he a

2217
01:40:50,319 --> 01:40:52,239
good enough defender to say, like, oh we need to do?

2218
01:40:52,279 --> 01:40:54,520
This and he's how old is he? Now so he's

2219
01:40:54,520 --> 01:40:56,239
at like what would be the upside of? This so

2220
01:40:56,239 --> 01:40:58,920
he's twenty, four this is age twenty four? Season what

2221
01:40:59,039 --> 01:41:01,439
are We what type of upside are you tapping into?

2222
01:41:01,479 --> 01:41:03,920
There i'm stocked. Down could still be a very good.

2223
01:41:03,920 --> 01:41:06,600
Player but we were pretty, adamant or at LEAST i

2224
01:41:06,640 --> 01:41:08,439
was pretty, adamant like when we were about all like oh,

2225
01:41:08,479 --> 01:41:10,199
no like this someone's gonna be really. Good he's gonna

2226
01:41:10,199 --> 01:41:11,840
be like connective at both ends of the, floor and

2227
01:41:11,840 --> 01:41:14,479
he's gonna contribute at a high level to a. Winner And

2228
01:41:14,560 --> 01:41:17,560
i've kind of like that script for, Me i'm questioning,

2229
01:41:17,640 --> 01:41:19,680
everything almost EVERYTHING i thought about him last.

2230
01:41:19,720 --> 01:41:21,920
Speaker 2: Year, YEAH i mean you count on him not getting

2231
01:41:21,960 --> 01:41:23,840
a whole lot better because of the, Age like that's

2232
01:41:23,840 --> 01:41:26,079
what the draft. Profile oh he's gonna help you win,

2233
01:41:26,119 --> 01:41:28,000
now but like this is what he. Is you don't

2234
01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:30,279
count on that guy getting worse as a, sophomore which

2235
01:41:30,319 --> 01:41:32,239
is what's. Happened so you got it's got to be stocked.

2236
01:41:32,239 --> 01:41:35,119
Speaker 1: Down do you give him any grace because of what

2237
01:41:35,279 --> 01:41:38,720
happened to? Me like for the first, well have a little,

2238
01:41:38,720 --> 01:41:40,840
bit SO i think he could get back to last

2239
01:41:40,920 --> 01:41:44,199
year's shooting and then maybe you're talking about Another yeah

2240
01:41:44,199 --> 01:41:46,399
he's back in, like oh he's a really good six seventh,

2241
01:41:46,439 --> 01:41:48,760
guy but that's where we were last, year so he's

2242
01:41:48,800 --> 01:41:50,800
and he's below that at the. MOMENT i don't think

2243
01:41:50,840 --> 01:41:53,039
he can be better than he was as a, rookie

2244
01:41:53,079 --> 01:41:55,199
like in a significant. Way, look the fact That i'm

2245
01:41:55,199 --> 01:41:57,319
wondering If haywood High smith is more valuable to The

2246
01:41:57,319 --> 01:42:01,039
heat at this, POINT i feel like slightly. Problematic So

2247
01:42:01,479 --> 01:42:03,720
i'll go stock down here for it. Though and it

2248
01:42:03,920 --> 01:42:05,680
was real snubs that you think that we should have

2249
01:42:05,760 --> 01:42:07,199
been been talking.

2250
01:42:06,960 --> 01:42:11,000
Speaker 2: About Anthony black stock down because he can't. Shoot but

2251
01:42:11,039 --> 01:42:12,920
we kind of maybe stock neutral because we knew that.

2252
01:42:13,000 --> 01:42:14,840
Already that's about.

2253
01:42:14,880 --> 01:42:17,800
Speaker 1: It, YEAH i mean you don't feel any guilt for

2254
01:42:17,840 --> 01:42:19,079
not talking About geese anto us.

2255
01:42:19,039 --> 01:42:21,840
Speaker 2: A little bit or oh we've got another hour, Forty

2256
01:42:22,239 --> 01:42:22,520
sure you.

2257
01:42:22,640 --> 01:42:26,880
Speaker 1: Go speaking of stock, up the Gees antos podcast begins right.

2258
01:42:26,880 --> 01:42:30,239
Now are you ready out of? Here?

2259
01:42:30,399 --> 01:42:34,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks that's gonna do. It, remember as, always rate,

2260
01:42:34,119 --> 01:42:36,239
review subscribe wherever you're listening to. This if you're watching

2261
01:42:36,239 --> 01:42:39,119
it on, YouTube leave us a. Comment let us know

2262
01:42:39,159 --> 01:42:41,199
what you think About Ben shepherd's mustache and how it

2263
01:42:41,199 --> 01:42:43,760
affects his stock. Report did we weigh it too heavily

2264
01:42:44,039 --> 01:42:48,079
not heavily? Enough who's to? Say join our discord links for.

2265
01:42:48,119 --> 01:42:51,079
That in YouTube and podcast, description we were kicking around

2266
01:42:51,760 --> 01:42:54,920
some guest player, stuff maybe making some return in some.

2267
01:42:54,960 --> 01:42:57,159
Form that would be a great place to keep her

2268
01:42:57,159 --> 01:43:01,479
breast of. That what? Else, YEAH i think that's gonna do.

2269
01:43:01,520 --> 01:43:03,640
It closed with shouts Of FRANKLIN. A. Kine apologies To

2270
01:43:03,720 --> 01:43:04,239
Jared allen