Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Deep Blue Sea the Podcast. I
Speaker 1: am Mark. I'm pretty sure Carter is happy that Scoggins
Speaker 1: is dead halfmer.
Speaker 2: And I am Jay keyboard throw in his face, CLU,
Speaker 2: welcome you your board DPC the podcast. On this show,
Speaker 2: we've been to the entire Deep Blue Sea trilogy, scene
Speaker 2: by scene, and we're going again with allny wonderful guests.
Speaker 2: And this is deep You see one, chapter twenty four.
Speaker 2: What happens in Deep See one, chapter twenty four. Let's
Speaker 2: have a listen. In the flooded wet lab, Carter and
Speaker 2: Scoggin swim down. Carter throws an errant keyboard at Scoggins.
Speaker 2: They haul a large piece of equipment out of the
Speaker 2: way of the access pat h Scoggins turns a couple
Speaker 2: of levers and gives Carter a thumbs up. Carter applies
Speaker 2: with the okay symbol, then points up to the ceiling
Speaker 2: of the room for looking concerned at something behind Scoggins.
Speaker 2: The shark appears and wipes Scoggins out, smashing him into
Speaker 2: the sparking axis panel and destroying his body, leaving only
Speaker 2: a pair of legs. While still kicking, Carter swims to
Speaker 2: a small air pocket and takes a breath. He dies
Speaker 2: back down and heads for a doory, desperately setting the
Speaker 2: handle as the shot nashes got to get the door
Speaker 2: open and pulls out into the previously dry corridor, leaving
Speaker 2: the shot behind him. That was deep see one, chapter
Speaker 2: twenty four. Not a lot of dialogue in that chapter
Speaker 2: has made me describing it as you will get more
Speaker 2: of in the episode. We need a guest to help
Speaker 2: us talk about it. Mark, who's joining us today?
Speaker 1: Okay? So joining us an entertainment attorney, a novelist, a
Speaker 1: college professor, a journalist, a professional splunker, a documentary filmmaker,
Speaker 1: and a fellow fellow Georgia Bays film critic. It's Jonathan Hickman.
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 3: Thanks, thanks, that's quite a mouthful. I appreciate you. You know, altogether,
Speaker 3: what I do is one actual full time job if
Speaker 3: you combine everything to together, you know.
Speaker 1: And I threw in professional splunker in there because I
Speaker 1: just it just felt right. And I feel like you've
Speaker 1: at least explored a couple of caves in your life.
Speaker 3: I have. I have, absolutely, Yeah. I try to stay
Speaker 3: out of them as much as possible. I'll tell you
Speaker 3: that movie The Rescue You Never Never want to go
Speaker 3: into a Cave?
Speaker 1: Was that the one that made into Thirteen Lives?
Speaker 3: He did when he did Thirteen Live that the original
Speaker 3: of the Rescue documentary was I think more more harrowing
Speaker 3: than than the Ron Howard film. Although the Ron Howard
Speaker 3: film was fine, it was fine, we.
Speaker 1: Stay out of the Descent.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I was at Sundance when that one dropped. Man,
Speaker 3: that was something. And it's too bad that director has
Speaker 3: never made a great movie since.
Speaker 1: He kicked it off with Dog Soldiers The Descent and
Speaker 1: I was like, this guy, this is my favorite human ever.
Speaker 1: And then he made dooms Day, and I like, I like,
Speaker 1: I love Doomsday. But then I watch it, I'm like,
Speaker 1: but then I like a week goes mon, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I love Doomsday, and then I'll watch it again. I'll
Speaker 1: be like, so I have a very odd relationship with.
Speaker 3: It's a very derivative. Yeah, you know, post apocalyptic kind
Speaker 3: of thing that uh, you know, probably did pretty well
Speaker 3: in the video market at the time because of the
Speaker 3: movie poster or the movie box as you you know
Speaker 3: that that you know that that was all that they
Speaker 3: needed to sell it. And is Vinnie is Vinnie Jones
Speaker 3: in that one. Who's in that one?
Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's the.
Speaker 2: It's the cinema.
Speaker 4: That's the only one.
Speaker 1: Wo I know. And then what the main crawler from
Speaker 1: the Descent is in it? Okay, and the kid Monarch
Speaker 1: of the Glen.
Speaker 3: As well, Glenn Malcolm McDowell. That's right, you know.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Yeah, Adrian Lesta and you were saying
Speaker 1: that the that that movie Doomsday, you pick it up
Speaker 1: because of the cover. This is really random, but I
Speaker 1: feel like Predator Badlands is one of those movies like that.
Speaker 1: You Jay hasn't seen it yet, but like, I feel
Speaker 1: like it felt like one of those movies where you
Speaker 1: would be a Blockbuster or the equivalent and see the
Speaker 1: box and go I'm gonna watch that and then just
Speaker 1: fall in love with it Predator.
Speaker 3: I don't know if it works that way anymore, Yea,
Speaker 3: but yeah, I mean I I felt like it. Obviously,
Speaker 3: now you're just doom scrolling across whatever platform you're on,
Speaker 3: and all the movie boxes are deceptive. Uh. You know,
Speaker 3: back in back in the eighties when I worked in
Speaker 3: a video store, the movie boxes really sold the movie
Speaker 3: and there was no rules, you know, there was a
Speaker 3: movie called Rotor, for example, which was a knockoff of
Speaker 3: RoboCop okay, and so I thought, oh, this is going
Speaker 3: to be great. And I was the assistant manager there,
Speaker 3: so I got to watch every movie when it came in,
Speaker 3: pop it in and it was awful, awful, awful, And
Speaker 3: you know, people ask you, though, is this worth renting?
Speaker 3: And you got to be honest with them, Well, I
Speaker 3: don't know. I mean, it just depends on what you
Speaker 3: really want that evening. You know, if you want schlock,
Speaker 3: then probably it is. But you know, I think Predator
Speaker 3: bad Lands is terrific. I mean I was so taken
Speaker 3: with it. I gave it an eight, which is part
Speaker 3: of it has to do with the fact that it
Speaker 3: is a franchise extension unit that does the crossover, right.
Speaker 3: I mean, we've had six Predator films, right, and you know,
Speaker 3: we had two spin offs and they were awful because
Speaker 3: those two things tried to meld Alien and Predator together
Speaker 3: so ineffectively. It was just dim witted awfulness, and you.
Speaker 1: Know, and it was very dim to look at the
Speaker 1: lighting was it was.
Speaker 3: It was well, it was really little budget. Both those
Speaker 3: films didn't have a budget. But what is it? What's
Speaker 3: the new director that's directed Tractor Tracting? You know, he
Speaker 3: got proper budgets for those, and the movies look great
Speaker 3: and and the narratives actually are coherent, you know, so
Speaker 3: I like that. You're right.
Speaker 1: Guess what happens when you give Renny Harlan, Dan Trachtenberg
Speaker 1: directors enough money Russell McKay, Yeah, like enough money to
Speaker 1: make a creature feature and like, do it right? You
Speaker 1: hired talented people, and guess what you get this? You
Speaker 1: get deep Rising, you get Ben Wheat.
Speaker 3: Oh I'm sorry, Ben whe Oh.
Speaker 1: No, he had two hundred million for that one. Ye
Speaker 1: oh yeah, you know prawl for twelve million, like give
Speaker 1: him forty, Like, well, what do you do is forty?
Speaker 3: He was the guy who did Predators at tal Oh.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: You know, the Predators isn't bad. I mean, the actual
Speaker 3: six Predator films are not bad. There's not a real
Speaker 3: bad film. Even though I saw Predators Predator too in
Speaker 3: the theater in Macon, Georgia when I was in college there,
Speaker 3: and I was underwhelmed, you know, But now that I
Speaker 3: look back at it, I thought, well, it's actually not
Speaker 3: a terrible movie.
Speaker 1: You know what what sucks about it's very sweaty, sweaty
Speaker 1: Glover's the best. That final fight is incredible and it
Speaker 1: is good. It's like, but the problem is you come
Speaker 1: after Alien Predator a new like just and you're not
Speaker 1: a Jurassic Park and you're good but not as good.
Speaker 1: People are like, yeah, it sucks. No, it's like it's
Speaker 1: it's good, it's just not Predator, Like you can't you
Speaker 1: can't do Predator again, Like you're not. We're not going
Speaker 1: to match that. Like what they had there, they didn't
Speaker 1: even know what they were making. They had a weird
Speaker 1: alien suit. They went to a place with no foliage,
Speaker 1: like that production was messed up, Like they all came
Speaker 1: out of the jungle with a good movie. So it
Speaker 1: like they're not going to recreate that.
Speaker 2: It's what we see with DVC when people said, oh,
Speaker 2: you know it's no Jewels, Yes, sure of course it's not.
Speaker 1: Well that's what is yeah, like what is Jaws?
Speaker 3: Jaws is not a movie about a shark, so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just yeah, people have said that though, like it's
Speaker 1: no Jaws, Like yeah, but what is what is? What
Speaker 1: is good?
Speaker 3: As?
Speaker 1: What is?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: But I digress.
Speaker 3: So my wife and I were very fortunate. We went
Speaker 3: to Chattanooga and stayed in the Chattanooga Chuo Choo Hotel
Speaker 3: in one of their little uh cars there, which is
Speaker 3: really nice. They've redone them. And then we went to
Speaker 3: see Jaws at their their museum there. They have a
Speaker 3: they have a big aquarium and they have like an
Speaker 3: excellent old school Imax, you know Imax where it's really steep,
Speaker 3: and they showed us I'm sure it's Limax, but they
Speaker 3: showed us Jaws on their Imax screen and it was
Speaker 3: just amazing. It was an amazing night. I had this
Speaker 3: big steak, I got a couple of whiskeys, wind saw Jaws.
Speaker 3: It was wonderful. But that's not a movie about a
Speaker 3: shark about something. It does have a shark in the
Speaker 3: shark's character.
Speaker 1: This is a prison break movie with shark like it's
Speaker 1: basically not shocking redemption or anything. Yeah, deep Blue c
Speaker 1: but it's it's it's a it's a prison escape film
Speaker 1: with sharks trying to get out. And I love that
Speaker 1: and and also too, I want you to shut out.
Speaker 1: I've known I've known Jonathan. I've known you since maybe
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, twenty Yeah, you're one of my first
Speaker 1: critic friends, I think when I started going to the
Speaker 1: film so I appreciate that. And I wrote a blurb
Speaker 1: for you for The Newman Newton Times.
Speaker 3: Harold several quotes in the piece we did piece let
Speaker 3: me find It. I had it pulled up about five
Speaker 3: shark movies. That's right, you recommended five movies. Blue Water,
Speaker 3: White Death, Jaws, Deep Bluesy of course, Mega Shark Versus
Speaker 3: Giant Octopus, and the Shallows. Those were your top five,
Speaker 3: at least a list. I don't know if they were
Speaker 3: a top five, but they were a list. And we
Speaker 3: were talking about Ben Wheatley's Meg two and the failure
Speaker 3: that it was. And we had a writer who had
Speaker 3: written for I believe the Asylum. He wrote. His name
Speaker 3: was h Perry Wharton and I can't I don't know
Speaker 3: where he is. I only talked to him through Twitter
Speaker 3: and he's not on X or Twitter anymore. But he
Speaker 3: wrote Two Headed Shark Attack, and he wrote Shark Week,
Speaker 3: and he wrote a couple other shark films. I believe
Speaker 3: there are Asylum pictures, got it.
Speaker 1: I wish I would have been.
Speaker 3: Sharks and Sweden, Yeah, that.
Speaker 1: Sharkson Sweden, Venice. Yeah, I made him a fake movie
Speaker 1: with Dolph Lungren that has become real in my head.
Speaker 1: But yeah, Sharks and Venice was Stephen Baldwin. That's one
Speaker 1: about that.
Speaker 3: I don't know about Baldwin, but I think it would
Speaker 3: be good to have Dolph in it. Did you see
Speaker 3: Showdown at the Grand? Whatever at the Grand with Lungren?
Speaker 3: And uh, who's the other actor? The guy from he
Speaker 3: was the first Gosh. But anyway, it's a good showdown
Speaker 3: at the Grand. I think it's called Oh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you told me about that?
Speaker 3: I really good question. I mean it's really good. It's
Speaker 3: not it's not awesome action, but it's really practical action effects.
Speaker 3: And Dolph is great in that. He plays an action
Speaker 3: hero who who is an actor? Of course? Who is
Speaker 3: who's in these movies? And then the Grand is attacked
Speaker 3: and they have to he has to spring into action
Speaker 3: as an action hero.
Speaker 1: Well, so it's a showdown at the Grand.
Speaker 3: I just have yeah, wait, Terrence Howard's yeah, it's he's
Speaker 3: the star of it. And then and then Dolph is
Speaker 3: his co.
Speaker 1: Star long hair Dolph.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he looks great in it. I mean it's
Speaker 3: a really solid picture. I wouldn't call it awesome, but
Speaker 3: it's solid.
Speaker 1: I mean, on the context, it's probably a really awesome
Speaker 1: direct to streaming film. I think there are Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I like that. So John back in ninety nine, Yeah, like,
Speaker 1: what's your history with d Blue Seat?
Speaker 3: I saw it in the theater. Yeah, I saw in
Speaker 3: the theater. Yeah, I was taken with it. I was
Speaker 3: writing at that time for a website called iansiders dot com,
Speaker 3: so I probably went to a press screening of it,
Speaker 3: but I cannot remember exactly if I did. And Deep
Speaker 3: Lucy was a was a surprise. It was a pleasant surprise. Uh.
Speaker 3: Saffron Burroughs was a lovely five foot eleven inch star
Speaker 3: who was great, and there was that amazing scene where
Speaker 3: Samuel Jackson uh gets it and uh, you know, and
Speaker 3: everyone liked Thomas Jane, so you know it was it
Speaker 3: was a really solid cast. Michael Rapaport before people hated
Speaker 3: him and you.
Speaker 4: Know he doesn't make it.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, Hello cool J. That's right,
Speaker 3: not ice Cube, Hello cool J.
Speaker 1: For a ninety nine cast to have like Saffron Burros
Speaker 1: stellan Scars guard, Thomas Jane was like a Terrence Malick,
Speaker 1: Paul Paul W. Paul Yeah, Pta, not Paul w you
Speaker 1: could have been him, right, but Pta guy.
Speaker 3: I mean it was Booie Knights.
Speaker 1: Bringing an ll cool j. It's off of like Halloween
Speaker 1: h two Woe and just he had a it's a
Speaker 1: really interesting Jacqueline Mackenzie is an Australian actor, like just
Speaker 1: bringing in Tony Soprano's sister. It was just a very Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was an interesting once adult cast right like it
Speaker 1: wasn't you know. I think at the time, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of team stuff. You know, Dawson's Creek, She's all
Speaker 1: that scream like. I think a lot of horror films
Speaker 1: are really skewing towards the teen audience, and the teen
Speaker 1: shows were blowing up, like Varsity Blue and ninety nine
Speaker 1: had a big teen presence. But then there's this very
Speaker 1: r rated just like Creature Feature by Rennie Harlan was
Speaker 1: Samuel Jackson and it kind of I don't know. I
Speaker 1: was working in a theater when it came out, and
Speaker 1: it absolutely blew me away because it's just one of
Speaker 1: my favorite movies. I just remember everyone cheering and clapping,
Speaker 1: but I think everyone was cheering and clapping because there's
Speaker 1: no expectations, like because Rennie Harlan wasn't hot, like he
Speaker 1: was coming off of Long Kiss, good Night Rules, but
Speaker 1: it didn't do too well. Cut Rhode Island kind of
Speaker 1: helped bankrupt a studio and was considered to be an
Speaker 1: all time flop. And so you have this Renny Harlan,
Speaker 1: you have a giant Shark movie. They didn't go too
Speaker 1: hard on the on the marketing of it from what
Speaker 1: I remember, and I think people are just expecting something cheesy,
Speaker 1: but then it's actually just really good and so I
Speaker 1: love that. I don't know if you had that like
Speaker 1: that feeling or like if that.
Speaker 3: Hit you, well, you know, I was reviewed. I'd been
Speaker 3: reviewing movies for about two years then, and our website
Speaker 3: was pretty po popular. It is no more Ian Sider's.
Speaker 3: Eventually the domain was sold, but it was like mister
Speaker 3: Showbiz or any of these upstart entertainment websites that were
Speaker 3: news related that just couldn't figure out how to monetize
Speaker 3: the content. And all of the eyeballs we were getting,
Speaker 3: you know, it was really popular, and we would get
Speaker 3: invites to screenings, we would go to festivals, do an
Speaker 3: occasional junket, and I didn't do a junket for Deep Lucy.
Speaker 3: I did later on at Sundance interview Saffron Burrows for
Speaker 3: a movie she did with Robert Redford's daughter. It was
Speaker 3: called The Guitar. It was a nice drama, very very
Speaker 3: finely made, and Burrows is every bit of five eleven. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I remember she told my producer, because I was on
Speaker 3: a TV show. She goes, Oh, I just want to
Speaker 3: take Jonathan and put him in my pocket and take
Speaker 3: him with me. And I was like, oh geez, I
Speaker 3: remember my producer would would say that every now and
Speaker 3: then you realize you just need to be foldable and
Speaker 3: somebody can put it, put you in their pocket and
Speaker 3: take you away with them. It's like, oh wow, well
Speaker 3: that's that's a I think that's a compliment.
Speaker 1: Give me a minute, let me figure that out. Just
Speaker 1: yeah exactly.
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm like, what you know? So? But you know,
Speaker 3: I think I think that the movie, uh is like
Speaker 3: all shark movies. It taps into our fear of what's
Speaker 3: down there, what's underneath us? You know. I guess the
Speaker 3: continents float on the water. I don't know, but uh,
Speaker 3: you know, the whole idea that you go out in
Speaker 3: this recent movie Dangerous Animals. The whole idea of their animals,
Speaker 3: they have instincts, and their instincts are to feed on
Speaker 3: whatever is available, whether it's a man or something else.
Speaker 3: And so you know, when you see any shark movie,
Speaker 3: like a Deep Blue Sy, you instantly have that chill
Speaker 3: up your spine. The unique thing about Deep Blue Cy
Speaker 3: is that these are sharks that can swim backwards. These
Speaker 3: are sharks that are smart. Conceivably they have been given
Speaker 3: whatever it is that they're they're studying, and that adds
Speaker 3: another layer of ferocity and fear. And I think that
Speaker 3: was a unique thing. I hadn't seen that before. Had
Speaker 3: there been a movie that had made sharks smart. I
Speaker 3: don't ever remember a shark swimming backwards.
Speaker 2: No, that's definitely unique to this one making sharks smart.
Speaker 1: I Revenge the Shark had a psychic link and set traps.
Speaker 4: But it.
Speaker 3: To be forgotten.
Speaker 2: Shark attacking the same year and had a similar scientists
Speaker 2: experimenting on shocks to try and cure a different, different disease.
Speaker 3: And that was that was an asylum release.
Speaker 4: I it was.
Speaker 2: It was it was straight to straight to TV, but
Speaker 2: it came out like a month before Deeps. It just
Speaker 2: happened to just one of those things. They came out
Speaker 2: at the same time. But I think in terms of
Speaker 2: big streamen so this was the only one. The first ones.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, Asylum, they had a habit of releasing
Speaker 3: a picture, uh in advance of a similar picture, and
Speaker 3: they ended up getting in trouble with their Hobbits film
Speaker 3: and they had to they had to do so. I
Speaker 3: don't even know if that was ever released, but they
Speaker 3: got sued over that one. But you know, generally, their
Speaker 3: shark movies stand on their own. I mean, as I
Speaker 3: understand it, one of the Asylum shark movies really laid
Speaker 3: the groundwork for what became Shark Nato and those other films.
Speaker 1: Make sure it was because it was the trailer and
Speaker 1: it got over a million views on AOL or Yahoo
Speaker 1: before all. That was big and it had the shark
Speaker 1: jumping out of the air and taking out the airplane
Speaker 1: and that became just a massive thing. That was big,
Speaker 1: and that that trailer blew up and got it like
Speaker 1: all the news covered it because it's like, oh, this
Speaker 1: trailer you gotta watch on AOL or Yahoo and it
Speaker 1: just exploded.
Speaker 3: Just think if they had Sora or one of the
Speaker 3: Ais to actually create a shark jumping out of the
Speaker 3: water to get on to grab if they had had
Speaker 3: proper effects back then. You know, I'm not an advocate
Speaker 3: of the Ais taking out all of our gifted artisans.
Speaker 3: But the one thing when I watched the clip of
Speaker 3: Deep Blue cy with Rapaport getting it, the one thing
Speaker 3: I can say is that the effects do look a
Speaker 3: little dated at this point.
Speaker 2: I'd say that's the CGI shots not great. Whenever there's
Speaker 2: a lot of practical sharks in the film, and we
Speaker 2: love gorgeous and we always highlight when there's practical practical
Speaker 2: sharks because they look great still, but yeah, the CGI
Speaker 2: is the one thing that, Yeah, it's the one negative
Speaker 2: we ever throw at the film.
Speaker 1: There's a couple of things I've noticed about this chapter
Speaker 1: that we I don't think we've ever talked about Jay
Speaker 1: they didn't have to move everything to turn those knobs.
Speaker 1: Have we talked about that before?
Speaker 4: We haven't.
Speaker 2: We talked before about how Carter gets Scuggins down to
Speaker 2: help and then Carter kind.
Speaker 4: Of does all of the work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, which because because Scuggin's lesson, he's trying he's
Speaker 2: he's pulling something underwater without like leavering his legs against anything,
Speaker 2: so he is doing nothing. Just if you, if you
Speaker 2: have like a deep pool and a heavy bit of equipment,
Speaker 2: throw it in there, try and pull it.
Speaker 4: Just try and just try and pull it.
Speaker 1: Just it's not.
Speaker 4: Gonna move, it's not gonna it's not gonna do anything.
Speaker 2: Whereas Carter has got his back and his legs against
Speaker 2: something else and he's pushing.
Speaker 4: So Carter's doing everything. But you're right, he doesn't need
Speaker 4: to move it.
Speaker 2: He can Scoggins can easily access those switches two knobs.
Speaker 1: And also, you know what I love too, is like
Speaker 1: the shark, the shark has two options to kill people,
Speaker 1: either Scoggins or Carter, and the shark chooses Scoggins because
Speaker 1: it's the right idea. But I I kind of love
Speaker 1: that the shark just plays Carter so hard in this
Speaker 1: scene to open up that door, and it's done it
Speaker 1: twice to him to get him to open doors, and
Speaker 1: Carter never gets it. But I guess you wouldn't understand
Speaker 1: that a super smart shark is hurting you to flood
Speaker 1: a facility. But I love that the shark.
Speaker 3: Just missing.
Speaker 2: My theory is to why Skogan's dies is it's revenge
Speaker 2: for Preacher. I think Preacher in the previous scene has
Speaker 2: killed one of the other sharks. We have to we
Speaker 2: have to assume off screen Preacher and the other the
Speaker 2: other members of the crew have just met up, so
Speaker 2: they've discussed it, and Preacher has been like, hey, I
Speaker 2: got one of those sharks in the kitchen. The other
Speaker 2: sharks looked through a window or something, did the whole
Speaker 2: liperting thing that they can do. And we're like, wait,
Speaker 2: this guy killed my dad or the shock killed and
Speaker 2: then they see Preacher and Scuggins have that little hug
Speaker 2: and they're like, Preacher kiss for Scuggins.
Speaker 4: Scoggin's days are numbered.
Speaker 3: And so you guys believe that not only are the
Speaker 3: sharks smarter than your average you know, great white swimming
Speaker 3: killing eating beast, but that they actually have a form
Speaker 3: of communication that allows them to coordinate their efforts. Is
Speaker 3: a selective.
Speaker 4: Kills yeah, because this is the whole plan.
Speaker 1: When Saffron is attack later, that shark's waiting for her
Speaker 1: in that room and it waits till she gets to
Speaker 1: the locker and opens up the thing to get the
Speaker 1: research that they want to destroy and then it attacks.
Speaker 1: It's just waiting, it's sitting there. So these sharks had
Speaker 1: to check. They just they had to talk. And then
Speaker 1: the other sharks. It's a coordinated attack to take out
Speaker 1: all the cameras. So the sharks take out all the
Speaker 1: cameras together.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, this is this is.
Speaker 1: Some next level. This is like the brain serum they
Speaker 1: got was like limitless juice that Bradley Cooper got in limitless.
Speaker 1: And then they're they're planning this time. They're so smart.
Speaker 1: They take out the cameras. They you know, you know,
Speaker 1: so they want to kill Scoggins. But also if they
Speaker 1: killed Carter, I don't think Scoggins would think to open
Speaker 1: that other door. I think Scoggins would just die.
Speaker 4: It just gives up Apley and just kind of waits, yeah,
Speaker 4: and then.
Speaker 1: The shark would just be like the shark would probably
Speaker 1: grab him by his foot and drag him and circles
Speaker 1: until and then let him go by the door. So's
Speaker 1: like open this he is Michael. So the Shark's like,
Speaker 1: come Onscoggins, come on, wrap report, open the door. And
Speaker 1: I don't think Scoggins would I think he knows that
Speaker 1: Carter knows it's smart enough to go somewhere else, and
Speaker 1: he plays that against him.
Speaker 3: I don't know the extent of Rapaport's cancelation and basis
Speaker 3: for it, but uh, but I think he's gotten a
Speaker 3: bad rap. I always liked him. I I like him
Speaker 3: in almost every.
Speaker 1: Movie you metro. You know what was the one?
Speaker 3: What was the one he did with Spike Lee?
Speaker 1: Did he do?
Speaker 3: Did he Was it Jungle Fever or one of those?
Speaker 3: I can't remember. I bamboozled, That's probably it. But I
Speaker 3: wonder if what they did was in the sequels that
Speaker 3: they didn't understand in the sequels to Deep Blue, see
Speaker 3: the depth of the intellect that these sharks were given.
Speaker 3: And the movies got more and more dim witted, didn't
Speaker 3: they make? They made what two sequels or more?
Speaker 1: Two?
Speaker 4: They made?
Speaker 2: They made two. I'm going to disagree and get more
Speaker 2: dim witted because three is actually very good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, three good reputation. I saw two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was to his fun. I really did. When
Speaker 1: we started the show, John Than, I was like, I
Speaker 1: am never talking about De Blue C. Two. And then
Speaker 1: I watched it again and then we covered it week
Speaker 1: by week, and I just fell in love with it
Speaker 1: because it's it's crazy. There's characters called doctor Misty Calhoun.
Speaker 1: There's a guy called Trent Slater Trent. There's there's baby,
Speaker 1: there's joy swims, There's there's like many munchy things that
Speaker 1: bite people in half. It's it's one of the silliest.
Speaker 1: Michael Beach is taking limitless juice from bull sharks so
Speaker 1: he can he wants to get He wants to prevent
Speaker 1: an AI robot apocalypse by making bull sharks smarter.
Speaker 4: Ye direct connection.
Speaker 3: Well, that's that's such a labored, a labored, convoluted perversion
Speaker 3: of what we what what we have in Deep Blue
Speaker 3: c which is essentially a Shark Chase film. Okay, that
Speaker 3: is sort of the context. Is the idea that that
Speaker 3: a billionaire has decided he's going to make shark smarter
Speaker 3: to be Alzheimer's. Isn't that really what this is about?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean yeah, So Saffron Burrows wants to do it.
Speaker 1: She works for Kaimera, who Ronnie Cox is in this
Speaker 1: movie and has no lines. He was originally supposed to
Speaker 1: be the leader, but then they hired Sam Jackson last
Speaker 1: minute and then gave took away all Ronnie Cox's lines,
Speaker 1: this is what we're guessing, and he gave it all
Speaker 1: to Samuel Jackson. So that's why Ronnie Cox says nothing.
Speaker 3: And I think DoD bless Ronnie Cox. Ro Copp will
Speaker 3: always I.
Speaker 1: Was supposed to do a Rotten Tomatoes is Wrong podcast
Speaker 1: ups about dbouf c, but I got pushed for Saffron Burrows.
Speaker 1: Makes sense. She's a much bigger grap, much better grap.
Speaker 1: I was like to Mark, I'm so sorry. I'm like, YO,
Speaker 1: talk to her, but I had a question. So I
Speaker 1: was like, what's up with saf Like what's up with
Speaker 1: Ronnie Cox? And She's like, oh, the dialogue got changed.
Speaker 1: Feel like a lot of people had scenes because Samuel
Speaker 1: Jackson got switched in it. But yeah, like they want
Speaker 1: to cure Alzheimer's, which has been done in Rise of
Speaker 1: the Planet of the Apes. They kind of mimic that,
Speaker 1: and then True Classic World is pretty much deep like
Speaker 1: Deep Blue Sea is Jurassic Park, and then Jurassic World
Speaker 1: is Deep Blue Sea, which I kind of love. But they, yeah,
Speaker 1: they want secure Alzheimer's. They explain it really well, then
Speaker 1: things go wrong and listen it's and then they just
Speaker 1: want to escape and they explain the entire escape to
Speaker 1: you with maps. You know where you're at. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it's proof though that simple is not always easy, you know.
Speaker 1: You think about Predator, they're running from an alien gott
Speaker 1: to get to the chopper alien. They have a thing
Speaker 1: on board Aliens. They got to get to a certain
Speaker 1: place before it explodes. You you, there's so many ways
Speaker 1: to like go wrong with creature features, and it's muddling
Speaker 1: the plot. I think Deep Blue Ce excels because it's
Speaker 1: so easy to understand. There's no secondary antagonists. We've talked
Speaker 1: about this a lot. Saffron isn't bad. No one else
Speaker 1: turns bad. It's just the sharks and they're not even
Speaker 1: that bad.
Speaker 3: Like Thomas Jane and Saffron. Saffron sacrificing herself. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: so you know, it's interesting you should talk about. One
Speaker 3: of the problems with the remake of The Running Man
Speaker 3: is that they try to they follow the original book
Speaker 3: very very clearly, but it's so convoluted because the narrative
Speaker 3: keeps shifting and you get new characters and so forth
Speaker 3: that don't make a whole lot of sense. The original
Speaker 3: Running Man is very simple. It is a chase narrative,
Speaker 3: much like Deep Lucy becomes a chase narrative through the
Speaker 3: corridors of this facility, in and out of the water.
Speaker 3: You know, you're hoping that the helicopter will arrive, and
Speaker 3: when it does, it doesn't save you. So there's all this,
Speaker 3: you know, there's all this. The chase narrative never gets old.
Speaker 3: And if done right, and you have to keep the
Speaker 3: tension on, if you stop and you divert to some
Speaker 3: other thing, then you kill the momentum of the narrative,
Speaker 3: which in the Running Man sequel they do clearly. I mean,
Speaker 3: the whole thing just drives to a w It's just
Speaker 3: more than once. And in Deep Blue c they have
Speaker 3: a goal. They're trying to survive and they're moving from
Speaker 3: place to place. It's a contained bit of horror thriller,
Speaker 3: which even though it's a large facility, it's still contained
Speaker 3: within that facility. Even though the ocean is vast, it
Speaker 3: shrinks the ocean down to this one little place. And
Speaker 3: that's that's genius, because that knows what it is and
Speaker 3: knows what it needs to do.
Speaker 1: Now you're one hundred percent correct. And while you were
Speaker 1: talking about that, you know, I was thinking about the
Speaker 1: New Running Man where every new character. You're right, it
Speaker 1: does stop stop stop, stop stop, cut up into parts
Speaker 1: also Thirty Days a Night. It's a movie that I
Speaker 1: think is beautiful to look at, and it starts strong
Speaker 1: and ends really well, but the middle grinds to a
Speaker 1: halt because they're just sitting in a like a they
Speaker 1: just sit there and then they kind of around for
Speaker 1: a couple of days and then it kills all the momentum.
Speaker 1: So right, as much as I adore the movie and
Speaker 1: I think it looks gorgeous and I bought it and
Speaker 1: I've covered it on the movie Sill the Flicks podcast,
Speaker 1: it does grind to a halt. So it's like, but
Speaker 1: what I.
Speaker 3: Guess love that I'm trying to take the producer. I
Speaker 3: spent some time with the producer of that film on
Speaker 3: a movie called Hard Candy, I think the one. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and because I did the Q and A when they
Speaker 3: all came to Atlanta, and that was with Elliott Page, right, yeah,
Speaker 3: Ellen Page at the time Elliott now of course, and
Speaker 3: the difference was stark, the contained bit of tension that
Speaker 3: they were able to generate in that Hard Candy. They
Speaker 3: sort of left it in a bigger narrative with the
Speaker 3: night film, the vampire film. So you know, I get
Speaker 3: exactly what you're saying. And that's the thing. Pacing is everything.
Speaker 3: And the one thing about Deep Blue c is that,
Speaker 3: even though they have different scenes, as you guys have
Speaker 3: broken it down, the pace is constantly ratcheting up. There's
Speaker 3: constant tension, and you can excuse bad special effects, even
Speaker 3: bad visuals, as long as you still have have the
Speaker 3: human tension and the quest for survival. And that's what
Speaker 3: they're doing. And you see it in the scene you
Speaker 3: have here. Because the scary part isn't Rapaport getting cut into.
Speaker 3: The scary part is when Carter looks over was it
Speaker 3: Hodges is his name?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 3: The scoggins Scoggin's shoulder, and that shark is coming at him.
Speaker 3: You know, that's that's the aha jump scare a moment
Speaker 3: if there is a jump scare, but that is where
Speaker 3: the chill goes down your spine. Once he gets bit
Speaker 3: in half, it's just oh, well, that's you know, okay.
Speaker 3: And then the little foot thing. You know, I guess
Speaker 3: this muscle there's muscle memory, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, last time we talked about this, I did try
Speaker 2: and work out whether it's as possible or not. And
Speaker 2: I found out that in frogs, if you put salt
Speaker 2: on a dead frog's legs, they will twitch. And that's
Speaker 2: so Scoggin's his path frog.
Speaker 4: That was what I was the hypothesis Frankenstein.
Speaker 3: Have you seen Amo del Toro's Frankenstein, You know all
Speaker 3: that stuff where he's reanimating old body parts using electricity.
Speaker 3: I obviously that's a that's the thing of fantasy. But
Speaker 3: you know, uh, I mean, if you've ever I mean,
Speaker 3: if you've ever gone frog gigging all of that, you
Speaker 3: certainly know how that is. But anyway, he's.
Speaker 1: A frog man in the water. And also he just
Speaker 1: hit a bunch of electricity, so yeah, salt electrical currents.
Speaker 2: I think I don't think people give this this kill
Speaker 2: enough credit because whenever we talk about the deaths and
Speaker 2: DBC talk about Sam Jackson getting killed, Stephen Sky's God
Speaker 2: is one of our favorites because it's I've drawn out.
Speaker 2: Janis on the Ladders is so horrific. Skugin's death is brutal.
Speaker 2: That does show absolutely destroys him. It doesn't eat pretty much,
Speaker 2: but it shreds every bit of him.
Speaker 3: About practical well, it is a combination of practical effects.
Speaker 3: I assume I assume that a dummy body that they
Speaker 3: are using there, or do you think it's all c
Speaker 3: g I? Do you think it's all Do you.
Speaker 1: Think it had to be c g I because they
Speaker 1: couldn't get any real blood into the water because it
Speaker 1: would have they would have had to have drained the
Speaker 1: tanks and that's there was a water water shortage.
Speaker 3: Okay, well, then the blood is the blood is uh
Speaker 3: is c g I? But is the body parts of
Speaker 3: him c g I? Because I thought that looked pretty convinsing.
Speaker 1: Oh that looked great, Yeah, commentary multiple times. I don't
Speaker 1: remember that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just looking at it now and it looks
Speaker 2: hard to tell. Some bits are definitely c g I,
Speaker 2: some bits could be.
Speaker 3: Look, did you guys ever? I listened to How Did
Speaker 3: This Get Made? Podcasts recently and they did a thing
Speaker 3: on John Carpenter's Gohoes of Bars and they talked about
Speaker 3: how Pam Greer they didn't build a fake Pam Greer
Speaker 3: head to put on a pike. They actually they made
Speaker 3: they made her. They put her on a pike somehow,
Speaker 3: but it was really uncomfortable. And yet the rest of
Speaker 3: the heads were made for the scene. They weren't real bodies, so, uh,
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know, maybe that's maybe maybe that's Rapaport.
Speaker 3: And then they c gied him in two. I maybe
Speaker 3: that's Rapaport doing the kick, you.
Speaker 4: Know, maybe maybe doubtful.
Speaker 1: But I finally noticed something too when they start this scene,
Speaker 1: I think Scoggins gives a thumbs up and then Carter
Speaker 1: gives an okay symbol, and then Carter gives an okay
Speaker 1: symbol with his hands. But then I noticed that Skaggin's
Speaker 1: does a wink. They went back three times in that
Speaker 1: little scene, and I kind of loved it. Did you
Speaker 1: see Scoggin's wink?
Speaker 4: I haven't. I haven't seen the wink.
Speaker 1: I kind of wanted Carter to come back with like
Speaker 1: a hang ten. And then they just keep going for
Speaker 1: like five minutes under the water with different hand motions.
Speaker 3: So this movie is is from a different time where
Speaker 3: actors would do things like get in the water with
Speaker 3: equipment and stuff that they might not actually do today.
Speaker 3: And so as an entertainment attorney, I'm a production legal attorney,
Speaker 3: it would surprise me. I don't even know how we
Speaker 3: would draft in agreement. We've done some films for I
Speaker 3: think we did one in one for two B where
Speaker 3: people got in the water. But water is something where
Speaker 3: the insurance is really really high. If you put actors
Speaker 3: in water, that's something that's really big. So you can
Speaker 3: imagine that while the budget of this one, what was
Speaker 3: the budget oft dep Lucy.
Speaker 1: It's sixty million to eighty million.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, so they had good money back then,
Speaker 3: certainly in those terms, but I can imagine the insurance
Speaker 3: premium was pretty high for this because of the all
Speaker 3: the water stuff. And did they film it in a
Speaker 3: big tank? It was what kind of tanks?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then sunk them in. It's like they built
Speaker 1: us at on top and then they lowered it into
Speaker 1: the tank.
Speaker 3: Understood. So the actors were actually getting down in with
Speaker 3: the sets in the water, sometimes being underwater. That's really
Speaker 3: I mean, that's a that's a liability nightmare. And the
Speaker 3: contracts were probably very intricate from that kind of thing.
Speaker 2: I can imagine the scene where they go to the
Speaker 2: helicopter and back with Jim on the on the gurney.
Speaker 2: The waves they were real waves, they were throwing at
Speaker 2: the coast and they hit them accidentally he took out
Speaker 2: a bunch of the casts, like, oh, they kept in
Speaker 2: the film that takes where they were get knocked over.
Speaker 2: They weren't supposed to do, but they kept it in
Speaker 2: Radny Hallens a math man.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, totally. Now now it's Renny Harlan making movies
Speaker 3: in in China.
Speaker 1: So he did that from twenty eight fifteen to twenty
Speaker 1: sixteen something like that. He made. Uh, then he went
Speaker 1: to the Emirates made a movie, correct, and then he
Speaker 1: went to Bulgaria to make The Three Strangers Bulgaria.
Speaker 4: I think it was Bulgaria.
Speaker 1: To make the Three Strangers movies.
Speaker 3: He did chatted with Rennie Harlan.
Speaker 1: No, no, we tried, but he did brick layering Greece.
Speaker 1: So he's all over the world making movies.
Speaker 3: Well, if I if I ever do a deal with
Speaker 3: Rennie Harlan, I'll be sure to drop you to get
Speaker 3: get his people. I don't ever deal with the actual person,
Speaker 3: but maybe his attorney or representative to try to get
Speaker 3: with it, because because I think Rennie Harlan ought to
Speaker 3: be on your podcast.
Speaker 4: We agree, but he's very busy. It was Slovakia.
Speaker 3: Good for him. I mean, that's great.
Speaker 1: I mean we've we never we never started this with that,
Speaker 1: like we thought maybe it'd be cool, but we're never
Speaker 1: bothered by it. We're just gonna keep going. There's no
Speaker 1: like entitlement or anything, but like like, yeah, we need
Speaker 1: to talk chat to him. If not, we're just gonna
Speaker 1: keep going.
Speaker 3: I think it would be well have you reached out
Speaker 3: to LL's people. I mean, he would be cool to
Speaker 3: have on here.
Speaker 4: It'll be cool to have on.
Speaker 1: We're not very ambitious with this show. We're just happy
Speaker 1: to Jay and I just like chatting.
Speaker 3: And maybe you can get Michael Rappaport.
Speaker 4: We probably could, but I don't. He seems the most guessable.
Speaker 3: Now he does have his own podcast. I think he
Speaker 3: has his own podcast.
Speaker 4: It's pretty popular, and he's on this year soon as well.
Speaker 3: Right right, So, so one connection one thing that you
Speaker 3: that you mentioned about Titanic, and you were talking about
Speaker 3: how their their plan in Deep Blue c was sort
Speaker 3: of mapped out for the viewer. It's always good Titanic
Speaker 3: did this too, to explain. I remember Roger Ebert talking
Speaker 3: about Titanic and how brilliant it was that in just
Speaker 3: a few minutes it was able to show us in
Speaker 3: the beginning how the boat broke in half and how
Speaker 3: it sank. Okay, because then later on in the movie
Speaker 3: you see the boat break in half and it seek right,
Speaker 3: you also kind of understand with all of the different
Speaker 3: modern I guess at that time views of the boat
Speaker 3: on the bottom of the ocean, with the little subs
Speaker 3: and stuff. You understood what it would take for them
Speaker 3: to go from this part of the boat to another
Speaker 3: part of the boat to escape all of that. So
Speaker 3: you have that right. Well, what I think is great
Speaker 3: about a movie like Deep Lucy, and of course I'm
Speaker 3: a fan of Titanic, is the idea that the audience
Speaker 3: has context. They understand that it's all contained within and
Speaker 3: deeply Cy this one place. So when they go under
Speaker 3: the water and they are trying to access this panel
Speaker 3: or whatever they're doing in the scene that we're talking about,
Speaker 3: there's some internal logic to it, right, You're not rolling
Speaker 3: your eyes and going, oh my god, why, because how
Speaker 3: many horror films involve someone walking Oh the movie where
Speaker 3: they say, oh, well, we're all gonna have to split
Speaker 3: up now, right, Yeah, I mean no, don't split up.
Speaker 1: LLLL calls her out for that too. When Saffron goes
Speaker 1: on her own. He's like, are you really going off
Speaker 1: on your own?
Speaker 4: Exactly?
Speaker 1: And you know it's funny when they go down to
Speaker 1: turn the pumps on, they don't need eight people, like,
Speaker 1: they just need two. So that makes sense for them
Speaker 1: to split up.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: I love this movie.
Speaker 2: And like they say, you two just stay here, and
Speaker 2: preachers like sure, I'm just gonna hang out here, and
Speaker 2: Susan's like, but where like film, horror films tend to
Speaker 2: split up so they can cut between two groups of people.
Speaker 4: They can have like actionally here actually here.
Speaker 2: Deeps is great because it starts out that way organically,
Speaker 2: like preachers in the kitchen, everyone else is doing the test.
Speaker 2: That makes sense, it's just kind of narratively it works.
Speaker 3: So my wife's a film producer and she made a
Speaker 3: horror movie called Rave Party Massacre for like no money,
Speaker 3: and it's available on all the platforms.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 3: The one thing that she wanted to do with her
Speaker 3: film is she wanted to have people coming apart for
Speaker 3: a reason and then coming back together again. So she
Speaker 3: separated them logically in her film and then brought them
Speaker 3: together sort of randomly and then all together. Because we
Speaker 3: thought that the movie had to have some kind of
Speaker 3: internal logic to it, you know, because when a movie
Speaker 3: makes you go, oh god, you know, why would you
Speaker 3: do that, that's when you lose your audience, you know.
Speaker 3: And the Running Man sequel certainly does that, you know.
Speaker 3: I mean, it makes you moan at times. I don't
Speaker 3: think I moaned hardly at all watching Deep Blue.
Speaker 1: C It's not a moaner. It's a crowd please.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And okay, I saw the thumbs up in this,
Speaker 1: and before we get on, I would love to talk
Speaker 1: more about the entertainment law and like how you would
Speaker 1: get this made, because I think that's fast. I'm teaching
Speaker 1: a producing class right now in my college. I teach
Speaker 1: at and there's a thumbs up. So here's what I
Speaker 1: want you guys to do. I went through an incredible
Speaker 1: amount of thumbs ups, and I have just I don't
Speaker 1: know how to find the top three. But I'm gonna
Speaker 1: ask you guys something. This one's not one of the
Speaker 1: top all time, but I'm gonna give you three scenes
Speaker 1: and I want you to start bench or drop them,
Speaker 1: so basically rank them one, two, three, but I like
Speaker 1: staying start bench drop so and Terminator two Judgment Day,
Speaker 1: another Cameron film, a Chase film, very simple to follow,
Speaker 1: when the T eight hundred gives a thumbs up while
Speaker 1: going into the lava.
Speaker 4: Right sure, yeah.
Speaker 1: And then in a Clockwork Orange at the end when
Speaker 1: Alex is in the cast with this thumb up in
Speaker 1: the air and everyone's cheering. I think that's just one
Speaker 1: of the greatest thumbs up ever in cinema.
Speaker 3: No question.
Speaker 1: And then I have so many good ones. Okay, the
Speaker 1: one in Oh, there's a good one roun all the Bronx.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with the Rock nineteen ninety seven, when
Speaker 1: Sean Connery is walking down a tunnel and then he
Speaker 1: just stops and he puts his thumb up, and then
Speaker 1: he puts it down and walks away. It's just a
Speaker 1: great Connery thumbs up. So start bench drop the thumbs
Speaker 1: up from Terminator two, the thumbs up from the Rock,
Speaker 1: and the thumbs up from a clockwork Orange.
Speaker 3: I would drop the Rock. One for me would be
Speaker 3: Terminator too, because it's my generation and it also hit
Speaker 3: me sentimentally. And then third Clockwork Orange is a strange
Speaker 3: bitter beast. Depending on which version in the UK, it
Speaker 3: was a video nasty wasn't it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, so you know, I mean, I don't know
Speaker 5: if people actually associate that particular moment with a clockwork orange.
Speaker 3: I think there are so many other moments that overshadow
Speaker 3: that moment. So I would definitely say that number one
Speaker 3: would have to be. And that's the one that I
Speaker 3: would think of any time I think of a thumbs up,
Speaker 3: I would think of Terminator two. Terminator two was just
Speaker 3: so transcendent in almost every way. I couldn't believe that
Speaker 3: they had taken Terminator, which was arguably one of the
Speaker 3: coolest films ever made simple simple, It was so cool.
Speaker 3: I mean, you put that and Highlander together in a
Speaker 3: double feature and you're you're you have a great boys night, right,
Speaker 3: and and then all of a sudden, now Termineer two
Speaker 3: is something more, It's something bigger, and it's what was
Speaker 3: promised in the end of Terminator. So, uh, the whole
Speaker 3: idea that you now can make the killer and they
Speaker 3: did this in Predator bad Lands too. You make a
Speaker 3: Predator of the hero, a sentimental hero with that, and uh,
Speaker 3: I think that's the magic of good writing and great cinema, Right.
Speaker 1: Jay, how would you rank those three?
Speaker 2: I have to keep tea too at the top as well,
Speaker 2: just like that's the iconic I'm the same thing with
Speaker 2: thumbs up. That's the thumbs up I think of. I
Speaker 2: used to run a movie site, the Lamb, and my
Speaker 2: final post, my last the last image I did in
Speaker 2: the post was the thumbs up going to the lava.
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm leaving this job now and hanging
Speaker 2: on somebody else. I'm sinking into the lava goodbye. I'd
Speaker 2: have to drop a clockwork orange just because I don't
Speaker 2: remember that image. I've seen the film a couple of times,
Speaker 2: but it's not it's that's not I agree with with
Speaker 2: with what John said. It's not when you think of
Speaker 2: a clock orange, that's not the image you think. You
Speaker 2: think about the four guys going down the tunnel. You
Speaker 2: think you think about so much more depraved things going.
Speaker 4: On in that film.
Speaker 3: Well, you always you always think about when you think
Speaker 3: of Clockwork Orange. Obviously the rape scene with the giant
Speaker 3: penis the uh this the scene where he's being reprogrammed
Speaker 3: with his eyes pride open, and then of course the drugs.
Speaker 1: So you know, okay, so it's Terminator two is the best, right, Jay.
Speaker 2: And I do and I really like I like the
Speaker 2: Rock quite a lot, I do. I can picture the
Speaker 2: Connery thumbs up in the tunnel. That has stuck with
Speaker 2: me as well, So I'm fine benching that. But I
Speaker 2: do like that one. So no disrespect to Crtle Orange.
Speaker 2: It is just not not one of my films.
Speaker 3: Was that, Simon West Michael?
Speaker 4: That was.
Speaker 1: Okay? Now, since Terminator two is better, tell me if
Speaker 1: these are better, if we could improve our list. So
Speaker 1: it's not. No, it's not a character. But Buddy Christ
Speaker 1: with the thumbs up? Is that more iconic than the Terminator?
Speaker 4: Sure?
Speaker 1: Still on top?
Speaker 3: Yeah? T two is still on top. I I just
Speaker 3: reviewed and watched uh the four k of of The
Speaker 3: Redo of Dogma, and what struck me about that film
Speaker 3: is how witty it really was and how insightful. I
Speaker 3: don't know what happened to Kevin Smith, you know, I
Speaker 3: interviewed him unfortunately about Jersey Girl, and that was sort
Speaker 3: of just such a disappointment. And I think that I
Speaker 3: think that that again, people are not associating the thumbs
Speaker 3: up with that film. If anything, the end bit uh,
Speaker 3: with with all the violence is really something I think
Speaker 3: people remember that.
Speaker 1: You guys are so smart Okay, what about this Jackie
Speaker 1: Chan's thumbs up from Romo and the Bronx during the
Speaker 1: Blooper reel that like that people use as a gift.
Speaker 1: Is that probably not? Okay? What about Chuck Norris Dodgeball?
Speaker 1: Chuck Norris's thumbs up from Dodgeball.
Speaker 3: You know, if you had to Chuck Norris gave a
Speaker 3: thumbs up from Dodgeball, I would not have remember it
Speaker 3: did It's what I love. Oh my gosh, you've never seen.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, you have to go you guys have
Speaker 3: to go back through Chuck Norris's.
Speaker 4: Uh, it's just me.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, lone Wolf McQuaid. It's great.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do a speed around real quick because we
Speaker 1: got to get you out of here. So we have
Speaker 1: the Wayne's World thumbs up where he goes excellent, cuts in.
Speaker 3: On, right on. Okay, that that's that's how that would
Speaker 3: be my number two.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I look for like some lady thumbs up,
Speaker 1: but Emma Stone gives some good ones from Easy Age.
Speaker 1: She kind of puts her whole shoulder into it. But
Speaker 1: I don't know if that that stands in here. But
Speaker 1: then we have the Gladiator thumbs up.
Speaker 2: Oh sorry, Yeah, I'm easy, not iconic, but it's good.
Speaker 2: Gladiator will have been on my list as well. I
Speaker 2: do feel like and when Skulkins does the thumbs up,
Speaker 2: is the shock like just is he acknowledging the shock
Speaker 2: and the shock read that, I was like, yeah, thumbs up,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna kill this guy.
Speaker 4: He's telling me to do it, Come.
Speaker 3: On and get him. What is the old saying? I
Speaker 3: don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster.
Speaker 1: Than you than uh?
Speaker 3: And then let's see top admit about Emma Stone. I mean,
Speaker 3: Emma Stone has an iconic well not iconic. She has
Speaker 3: a wonderful scene in Pogonia where she goes, yeah you know,
Speaker 3: I mean she didn't do it thumbs up, but you know,
Speaker 3: give props to Stone.
Speaker 1: You know, she's yeah, she does this thing where she
Speaker 1: kind of punches her shoulders and then puts her hands
Speaker 1: up like it's like a full body thumbs up. So like,
Speaker 1: I really like her form in that.
Speaker 3: I like I like her in everything. She's always in
Speaker 3: good form.
Speaker 1: She's great.
Speaker 4: I agree.
Speaker 1: Now let's see we have the top gun thumbs up.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: What about in Asontera when he when he does the
Speaker 1: point and then the.
Speaker 3: Thumb that's a modification. They call that a permutation. That
Speaker 3: thumbs up.
Speaker 4: You know, I like it. I don't remember it, but
Speaker 4: I like it.
Speaker 3: No, I totally remember it. I wouldn't have thought of
Speaker 3: it until you mentioned it.
Speaker 1: And he also has one where he says a bunch
Speaker 1: of zits on his face, he's under cover, and he
Speaker 1: does a thumbs up a lot of thumbs up. And
Speaker 1: we have mad Nactury Road, the iconic quick thumbs up
Speaker 1: from Tom Hardy where he kind of goes, when you
Speaker 1: can be grudgingly goes, good job does that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's not breaking the top three.
Speaker 1: There's the Johnny Utah point break thumbs up where he's
Speaker 1: in the rain and he's like, yeah, and I I've
Speaker 1: used that gift so many gifts, so many gifts whatever
Speaker 1: it's called, thousands of times. I don't think that one
Speaker 1: people aren't biting on that. And then the Batman Forever
Speaker 1: when Kilmer does the quick thumbs up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think people even remember that forever, all.
Speaker 4: Right, I don't. Yeah, So I mean.
Speaker 1: T two wins, I think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, two wings. But Wayne's world is making a bit.
Speaker 3: For a right well. And then after that it's got
Speaker 3: to be Gladiators because it's narratively purposeful, you know, I mean,
Speaker 3: it has actual narrative importance, you know. You know.
Speaker 1: I was kind of disappointed because and Happy Gillmore. I
Speaker 1: could have sworn that he looks at somebody and gives
Speaker 1: him a thumbs up and then goes, you should play
Speaker 1: in the tournament, right, But he does such a short
Speaker 1: thumbs up. He kind of just does like a t
Speaker 1: like just a tea kettle motion, like he's just sort
Speaker 1: of like holding it and then does that. But but
Speaker 1: it's not a real thumbs up. It's like a fake out.
Speaker 1: But if he would have started with the thumb up
Speaker 1: and then turned it down and made the farty noise,
Speaker 1: I'd put that time.
Speaker 2: I think renee Zoa could do the same thing in
Speaker 2: Chicago when like mcketty's trying to really center on the routine,
Speaker 2: that's what do you think of that?
Speaker 4: And she's she's the Rospberry. I think my wife was
Speaker 4: watching Chicago a lot recently.
Speaker 3: Netflix screened Jay Kelly for us last night, and Sandler is, uh,
Speaker 3: he's all right in it. I mean, he's pretty good
Speaker 3: in the movie. The movie is I I wasn't a
Speaker 3: big fan of it, but Sandler was good this serious side,
Speaker 3: no jokes.
Speaker 1: One of my biggest posts ever. He said, if he
Speaker 1: didn't get nominated for an Oscar for Uncut Gems, he
Speaker 1: would make the worst movie ever made. So I created
Speaker 1: the worst world, worst Adam Sandler movie ever based on
Speaker 1: his bad movies.
Speaker 4: And it got about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it had over like seventy five thousand up votes
Speaker 1: on Reddick, got shared all over the internet, and then
Speaker 1: he heard about it, and but it's still not made.
Speaker 1: I was hoping to get like a story by.
Speaker 3: No, wait a minute, So the worst movie ever made
Speaker 3: is not the ridiculous sixth.
Speaker 1: I came up with a movie called Jack Dup where
Speaker 1: he's a personal he's a shoe salesman who's married to him.
Speaker 1: His his wife is himself and she's a personal trainer
Speaker 1: and they go to Costa Rica for a wedding. And
Speaker 1: in Costa Rica, the President played by Terry Cruz is
Speaker 1: kidnapped by terrorists led by a jet skiing Rob Schneider,
Speaker 1: who's playing a completely different ethnicity in the role. And
Speaker 1: then it's up to it's up to the Sandler Sandlers
Speaker 1: to save the president from a Rob Schneider terrorist and
Speaker 1: there's a jet ski chase in a lazy river.
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, what was the movie where he
Speaker 3: played his sister Jack, Jack and Jill, So you know
Speaker 3: that's that's totally I could see that. I could totally see.
Speaker 1: That it got it was big. It was just millions
Speaker 1: of views and that was probably and it got me
Speaker 1: a job for four years, so that was.
Speaker 3: Cool that whatever works, right, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: But uh well, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2: We need we need to talk sho films. Sorry sorry,
Speaker 2: I don't know if mars Osti is or not. But
Speaker 2: if not, on the spot, what would you say, we're
Speaker 2: combining a spreadsheet, what are your top four shark movies
Speaker 2: or movies with sharks in them?
Speaker 1: If you profess Ja typically does the bookings, and he's
Speaker 1: much more organized than I am. Jonathan's like, hey, are
Speaker 1: we recording today? Like what time? I'm like, I got
Speaker 1: your right.
Speaker 3: So obviously Jaws, okay, possibly Jaws two, also the Shallows,
Speaker 3: Deep Blue c it would be on there.
Speaker 1: Mmm, so the top four and is that the order Jaws,
Speaker 1: Jaws to the Shallows and Deep Blue CE or we'll give.
Speaker 3: You more of an I would say, I would say
Speaker 3: the Shallows would be above Uh. Well see I have
Speaker 3: actually kind of like Jaws to me too. Yeah, but
Speaker 3: I I don't know if I rank it above the Shallows.
Speaker 3: It's really that's a really effective film. It's just and
Speaker 3: it it really launched a career of a fine director,
Speaker 3: you know. So I would say the Shallows would be
Speaker 3: above it. Deeply. C would be on that list. I
Speaker 3: haven't given it much thought, guys, I'm so sorry. I
Speaker 3: will where we go just hit me with an email
Speaker 3: and then to remind me because I'm going to jump
Speaker 3: back into some contract work here after this, but uh,
Speaker 3: you know, I'll have a think on it, as they
Speaker 3: say in in England. Right on.
Speaker 4: All right, Well, so thank you for joining U. John.
Speaker 2: Do you have anything you want to plug or promote?
Speaker 2: Where can where can the listeners find you?
Speaker 3: I have a well, I can be found at Times
Speaker 3: Hair Old Times, dash Herald dot com. Under reviews you
Speaker 3: go to Arts and Entertainment or Arts and Community and
Speaker 3: then it's reviews. All of my content on that website
Speaker 3: is free. They make that a sort of a lost
Speaker 3: leader for to generate traffic, and there should be maybe
Speaker 3: ten years of reviews there. I don't know if it's
Speaker 3: quite that many. I review two to three films a
Speaker 3: week occasionally do an interview. So that's where you could
Speaker 3: find me on X I'm at film Fix, so if
Speaker 3: you need to see my reviews, you can go there
Speaker 3: and click and there they are. I also write for
Speaker 3: another little read South Atlanta monthly called The Paper, that's
Speaker 3: what they call it, and it's on the streets every week.
Speaker 3: I do a streaming piece for that. But you know
Speaker 3: what happened was COVID swallowed up a lot of the
Speaker 3: prints that just you know, all the monthlies just sort
Speaker 3: of went away. It was real sad. So yeah, that's me.
Speaker 3: And then if anyone needs film production law representation, my
Speaker 3: website is film Production Law dot com and that's where
Speaker 3: you can you can find me and call me up,
Speaker 3: talk to my assistant who's my wife, Maggie, and we
Speaker 3: can set up a meeting.
Speaker 1: Love it well, Thank you so much for joining.
Speaker 3: Us, Actually, thank you you.
Speaker 4: Have anything you want to plug now movie Sounds of Flicks.
Speaker 1: We got a lot of good stuff coming up in December,
Speaker 1: and I'm really jazz for our water episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah, excellently, sir, and yeah, Lifettersfilm dot Com is my site.
Speaker 4: A couple of new reviews coming up over there, and.
Speaker 2: I've just reviewed A Mother's Embrace over at Blueprint review
Speaker 2: dot com because I thought it was going to be
Speaker 2: an aquatic film.
Speaker 4: Yes, it's like it's built as it's during a flood.
Speaker 4: It's a Brazilian film, I believe.
Speaker 2: It's set in nineteen ninety six with it during like
Speaker 2: a heavy rain in Rio de Janeiro, with like firefighters
Speaker 2: that go into a nursing home to try and save
Speaker 2: it during a flood, and the lead character is haunted
Speaker 2: by visions of tentacles and all.
Speaker 4: This is great, and it was. It was quite disappointing.
Speaker 2: We will not be covering it on the show, but
Speaker 2: I've review a bit for blue Preview dot com. Seeing
Speaker 2: gary that over there to cut it k reviewed. Next
Speaker 2: week we'll be Beast of War to about new films.
Speaker 2: That's a new Shark movie that we've already talked about.
Speaker 2: We're going to cover it next week, so come back
Speaker 2: next week for that. But as for Deep Busy one,
Speaker 2: chapter twenty four, thank you once again to our wonderful
Speaker 2: guest John Hickman.
Speaker 3: Thank you, guys.
Speaker 4: I've been Jake Lewett, Markathmeyer, and we'll deep Blue. See
Speaker 4: you next week, Sara
Speaker 3: Don't you think that he had all