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Start having the 23 00:00:55.039 --> 00:00:57.719 most fun ever at Chumbuck Casino dot. 24 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:00.000 Com, No Personesses every dvoid over every by Lost Eaters, 25 00:01:00.159 --> 00:01:00.960 A fading lay. 26 00:01:02.479 --> 00:01:04.239 Loop told. 27 00:01:12.840 --> 00:01:16.280 You are now listening to true Murder The most shocking 28 00:01:16.359 --> 00:01:19.400 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 29 00:01:19.439 --> 00:01:26.760 written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK Every 30 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:30.439 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 31 00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:34.760 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 32 00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:37.959 host journalist and author Dan Zufansky. 33 00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:53.560 Good Evening. In the Garden State Parkway Murders, True crime 34 00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:57.359 writer and attorney Christian Barth dives into the harrowing story 35 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:01.040 of the unsolved murders of Elizabeth Perry and Susan Davis, 36 00:02:02.120 --> 00:02:05.159 college friends. The two women were brutally knife to death 37 00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:08.479 and their bodies left off the parkway in the early 38 00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:14.719 hours of May thirtieth, nineteen sixty nine. Among the numerous suspects, 39 00:02:14.759 --> 00:02:19.080 Barth identifies our infamous serial killers Ted Mundy and Gerald 40 00:02:19.159 --> 00:02:22.599 Eugene Stano, who were living within an hour's drive from 41 00:02:22.599 --> 00:02:26.159 where the murder scene at the time they occurred. The 42 00:02:26.240 --> 00:02:29.080 killers also resided next to one another on Florida's death 43 00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:34.599 Row and indirectly confessed to the double homicide, a culmination 44 00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:38.000 of more than nine years of research. Bart's book is 45 00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:42.280 compiled from multiple sources, including interviews with retired New Jersey 46 00:02:42.319 --> 00:02:47.759 State Police detectives, law enforcement officials from other jurisdictions, federal agents, 47 00:02:48.039 --> 00:02:52.439 possible witnesses, victim family members, as well as information gathered 48 00:02:52.439 --> 00:02:58.400 from FBI case files, letters, journals, libraries, newspaper articles, and 49 00:02:58.599 --> 00:03:04.759 university archives. In scintillating detail, Barth presents the case, including 50 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:10.080 previously undisclosed information surrounding these brutal murders, as well as 51 00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:14.960 an examination of recent technological advances in crime scene analysis 52 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:19.520 and FBI serial killer profiling that could help identify the killer. 53 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:23.080 When all is said and done, the reader is asked 54 00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:27.919 to consider why hasn't this cold case been solved? The 55 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:30.919 book that we're featuring this evening is The Garden State 56 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:35.479 Parkway Murders. A cold case mystery with my special guest, 57 00:03:35.560 --> 00:03:39.319 attorney and author, Christian Barth. Welcome to the program, and 58 00:03:39.400 --> 00:03:42.919 thank you very much for agreeing to this interview. Christian Barth, 59 00:03:44.599 --> 00:03:45.520 thanks for having me again. 60 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:46.400 I appreciate it. 61 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:53.439 Thank you very much. An incredible case. Let's get to 62 00:03:54.319 --> 00:03:58.319 right away. Tell us a little bit about your interest 63 00:03:58.400 --> 00:04:00.840 in this case and how you came about to be 64 00:04:00.919 --> 00:04:05.080 the author, and in that tell us about your book, 65 00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:06.960 The Origins of Infamy. 66 00:04:08.400 --> 00:04:13.159 Okay, so back it goes back to a childhood memory 67 00:04:14.479 --> 00:04:17.360 back in about I'd say I was twelve thirteen, maybe 68 00:04:17.480 --> 00:04:20.360 fourteen as a boy. Even leading up to that point, 69 00:04:20.439 --> 00:04:24.639 we had always traveled to the Jersey Shore. We had 70 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:29.519 relatives down there, and we used to vacation every summer 71 00:04:29.560 --> 00:04:32.319 for about two weeks in a town called Stone Harbor, 72 00:04:32.439 --> 00:04:36.839 which is in Cape May County. To get to Stone Harbor, 73 00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:40.720 you would travel, obviously down the Garden State Parkway. On 74 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:44.439 one of these trips north on the Parkway, or in 75 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:46.639 several of these trips north, I would always, as a kid, 76 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:49.480 look out into the woods as we drive past them. 77 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:51.879 I grew up in a town called Cherry Ill, New Jersey, 78 00:04:51.879 --> 00:04:57.680 which is strictly suburban. You know, street lights, neighborhoods, things 79 00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:00.839 along those lines. There really weren't any woods, So on 80 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:03.160 these trips north, I would always look into the woods. 81 00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:06.480 And I was interrupted from one of these reveries at 82 00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:09.680 one time from my mother saint my father who was 83 00:05:09.800 --> 00:05:12.319 driving I was in the backseat. She said they never 84 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:15.240 found out who killed those girls? Did they? And it 85 00:05:15.279 --> 00:05:18.319 was just fascinating to me. Perhaps he was the mention 86 00:05:18.519 --> 00:05:21.560 of this case and the conjunction of me looking outside 87 00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:24.519 at the woods, and my bears perked up, and I said, 88 00:05:24.519 --> 00:05:28.720 what case? And I'd learned the briefest of details. And 89 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:31.759 I remember my father saying, yeah, for a while, they 90 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:35.639 had a trailer in the woods, because the killer always 91 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:38.199 returned to the scene of the crime. Now that part 92 00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:40.800 of it being in the woods wasn't an accurate recollection 93 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:43.839 of it, But nevertheless, that memory just stayed with me 94 00:05:43.959 --> 00:05:49.360 for a few minutes. I buried my subconscious until nineteen 95 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:52.879 ninety three, when I had read on the front page 96 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:56.720 of the Philadelphia Inquire a story by writer Larry Kelly 97 00:05:56.759 --> 00:06:00.879 that Ted Bundy had been in the area and his biographer, 98 00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:07.680 a guy named mister Larson, had in fact written The 99 00:06:07.759 --> 00:06:11.560 Deliberate Stranger, which became the movie starring Mark Harmon. He 100 00:06:11.920 --> 00:06:15.000 was of the opinion that Ted Bundy was in the 101 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:19.120 area at the time and had in fact confessed to 102 00:06:19.160 --> 00:06:22.600 the murders, based upon several marks he had made to 103 00:06:22.680 --> 00:06:25.800 a psychologist named Art Norman in nineteen eighty six while 104 00:06:25.800 --> 00:06:30.079 on death row, and later on even his execution, excuse 105 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:34.319 me to doctor Dorothy Lewis. So when about year two, 106 00:06:35.079 --> 00:06:37.240 two thousand and one, I had gotten in my mind 107 00:06:37.279 --> 00:06:40.639 to become a writer and had taken a class in 108 00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:46.560 at Rutgers University and a short story was a requirement, 109 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:48.839 and I didn't have an idea, and for some reason, 110 00:06:48.920 --> 00:06:50.560 it just came into my head. Wow, that was an 111 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:54.160 interesting story. So I fictionalized the story into a short 112 00:06:54.199 --> 00:06:56.759 story that was published soon thereafter. I think it was 113 00:06:56.839 --> 00:07:01.199 called A Smiling Knife, and it was a loosely based 114 00:07:01.240 --> 00:07:04.120 interpretation of the story. And from there I said, well, 115 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:05.920 you know what, I'm really into this fiction writing. I 116 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:10.879 was really really discovering it, and writers that influenced me, 117 00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:14.600 like William Styron and guys like that. I just decided 118 00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:18.680 to write a book fictionalizing that the Parkway murders told 119 00:07:18.759 --> 00:07:23.319 him entirely from Ted Bundy's perspective for beginning of Death 120 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:27.199 Row and then going back to his time in Seattle. Obviously, 121 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:31.120 all this taking place in nineteen sixty nine leading up 122 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:34.120 to the murders. You know, he was Bundy was in 123 00:07:34.199 --> 00:07:36.759 New York City. He had lived in Philadelphia in the 124 00:07:36.759 --> 00:07:41.600 spring of sixty nine, staying with an aunt. So I 125 00:07:41.639 --> 00:07:45.920 really coalesced all these these this research that I did 126 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:48.279 into a book called The Argues. Event from me, I 127 00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:52.560 went to New York City to the Public Library, when 128 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:55.720 the archives just got a real feel for you know, 129 00:07:55.839 --> 00:08:02.199 the pornography and those things that Bundy attributed attributed as influences, 130 00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:05.360 you know, is his motive to kill I believe he 131 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:08.399 called it, you know, the entity that was formed in 132 00:08:08.480 --> 00:08:13.360 New York City, that of course was referenced later by him, 133 00:08:13.399 --> 00:08:18.000 not only to you Ainsworth uh and Steve michaud in 134 00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:22.199 Conversations with a Killer, but at Ladder Times as well. 135 00:08:22.279 --> 00:08:25.079 So these are the in my say, Ladder Times. He 136 00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:27.560 had mentioned this to doctor Dorothy Lewis and Art Norman 137 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:31.600 been discussing, you know, after he went to New York City, 138 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:33.639 he went to the Jersey Shore. He ever mentioned the 139 00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:37.919 Jersey Shore component to Ainsworth or Michoudo, so that was fascinating, 140 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:40.759 But he did mention it to these two other psychologiess 141 00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:43.080 so that's that's how it began. And I just I 142 00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:46.120 was just fascinated by the case from that point forward, 143 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:51.519 and that's what gave rise to to the Argues of Infamy. 144 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:55.879 Now with this book, you talk about the setting is 145 00:08:55.960 --> 00:09:01.120 Ocean City. So tell us about Ocean City, and tell 146 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:06.120 us about Susan, Margaret Davis and Elizabeth Perry. 147 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:11.679 Okay, So Ocean City began its beginnings were in the 148 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:17.320 late eighteen hundreds. A trio of Methodist ministers had founded it, 149 00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:22.039 as they call it, like a seaside oasis, the very Christian, virtuous, 150 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:26.840 virtuous place. There is no drinking there. The Blue Laws 151 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:30.440 have been in effect since it's founding. There's a tabernacle there. 152 00:09:30.519 --> 00:09:34.600 It's always had a very Methodist influence. Toward the late 153 00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:39.919 nineteen sixties, the compositive started to change in a not 154 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:43.000 so great way. You had it's funny what the writers 155 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:47.159 of the Ocean City Sentinel, the newspaper down there and 156 00:09:47.240 --> 00:09:51.000 the other papers had called, quote unquote the undesirable element. 157 00:09:51.200 --> 00:09:53.399 But that that was a funny way of looking at it. 158 00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:57.440 Started to go there, and they would stay at the houses, 159 00:09:57.480 --> 00:10:01.399 the young people, the college kids, and they would leave 160 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:05.080 from there and go to the bars at Summer's Point, 161 00:10:05.559 --> 00:10:08.039 which was right across the bridge, which is sort of 162 00:10:08.039 --> 00:10:13.399 the bacchanalia of the Jersey Shore. Then you had bars 163 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:18.759 like Tony Mars Bay, shores and whatnot that were there. Actually, 164 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:21.799 Tony Marx is where I don't know if you're familiar 165 00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:24.720 with the movie. It's a cult classic Eddie and the 166 00:10:24.759 --> 00:10:27.399 Cruisers with Tom Berenger. It was filmed there before it 167 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:30.960 was torn down, so you had that real distinct difference 168 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:35.120 between the two places. So Susan and Elizabeth were both 169 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:39.840 nineteen and they had been just wanted to graduated from 170 00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:42.440 Monticello College, which is a girls school in Illinois, no 171 00:10:42.519 --> 00:10:48.480 longer there, and they were friends and they decided to 172 00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:52.759 take a trip down to the Jersey Shore and they 173 00:10:52.759 --> 00:10:55.399 wound up staying at one of the many rooming houses 174 00:10:55.399 --> 00:10:58.360 that were down there at the time, affordable rooming houses 175 00:10:58.360 --> 00:10:59.759 for kids who was staying go to the beach and 176 00:10:59.759 --> 00:11:02.360 again to go to summers Point at night. So they 177 00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:06.759 were there for three days. They stayed at a looming house. Susan, 178 00:11:06.840 --> 00:11:10.080 by the way, was from Pennsylvania, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and Elizabeth 179 00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:13.919 was from Minnesota. So they went and became president Monticella, 180 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:16.799 went to the Jersey Shore, stayed there and by all accounts, 181 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:18.600 you know, they didn't meet a lot of people. They 182 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:21.480 were sun tan and these weren't real party girls, so 183 00:11:21.519 --> 00:11:25.000 to speak, their very nice, very nice girls from very 184 00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:29.440 fine families. They had gone there, stayed for three days, 185 00:11:29.720 --> 00:11:33.279 and on the morning of May thirtieth, at about four 186 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:37.279 thirty a m. They had gotten up to leave, spoke 187 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:40.360 with their landlord and elderly gentleman named Walter Side and 188 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:44.440 told him they were leaving, and they took off. He 189 00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:47.200 saw them, you know, leaving their car. Susan was driving 190 00:11:47.399 --> 00:11:52.279 a nineteen sixty six Marina Blue Chevroy Lake convertible. They 191 00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:55.960 left there and then they were seen at the summers 192 00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:58.559 Point Diner about again a mile and a half way 193 00:11:58.679 --> 00:12:02.039 over the bridge in summers Point. Now to understand the 194 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:05.919 the thing was summers Point Diner. All these bars that 195 00:12:05.960 --> 00:12:08.279 I referenced earlier would get out at two point thirty 196 00:12:08.279 --> 00:12:11.360 in the morning. There were two all night bars as 197 00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:14.399 well that would feed into every Every kid after the 198 00:12:14.440 --> 00:12:19.519 bars closed would just stagger on over to the Summer's 199 00:12:19.559 --> 00:12:22.720 Point Diner, which is the only place open all night 200 00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:25.399 back then twenty four seven, I talked to mister McGill, 201 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:28.600 the owner of the establishment. Back then, he said, literally 202 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:32.000 there was a standing line there all day long, all 203 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:36.039 night long, with the kids going in, so that's that's 204 00:12:36.039 --> 00:12:40.679 how they wound up being in Susan and Elizabeth wound 205 00:12:40.759 --> 00:12:43.200 up getting to the point of from there, of course, 206 00:12:43.399 --> 00:12:49.720 they drove off and the murders occurred about two miles away. 207 00:12:50.440 --> 00:12:55.200 Now they are expected by Susan is expected by the parents, 208 00:12:55.519 --> 00:13:02.279 Wesley Davis and his wife Marjorie. So this you say 209 00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:06.960 that there's this is uh tell us how how long 210 00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:10.240 this this ride is supposed to be and when do 211 00:13:10.360 --> 00:13:14.399 the parents get a sense of urgency and panic and 212 00:13:14.440 --> 00:13:15.559 what do they do as a result. 213 00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:22.000 Okay, so they with respect to the parents, they were 214 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:26.840 Susan and Elizabeth were going that the plan was after 215 00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:29.240 they left the boarding house in Ocean City, that were 216 00:13:29.240 --> 00:13:32.000 going to go directly home to Susan's parents' house in 217 00:13:32.519 --> 00:13:35.759 camp Hill, Pennsylvania specifically, which is a suburb of Harrisburg, 218 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:41.200 Pennsylvania state capital, and they were supposed to join Susan's 219 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:45.639 parents for a trip down to Duke University in Durham, 220 00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:49.480 North Carolina to see Susan's older brother graduate that weekend. 221 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:55.039 So by mid morning, when the kids didn't appear at 222 00:13:55.039 --> 00:13:58.480 the house immediately, mister Davis started to be broke concerned 223 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:02.639 because it just wasn't Susan, she wasn't flighty. She always 224 00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:06.039 told them where she was going to be, And by 225 00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:08.759 about noon they still hadn't heard anything. And if the 226 00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:11.480 day went on, they grew more and more concerns they 227 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:16.480 hadn't heard anything. They began contacting friends who hadn't heard 228 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:20.279 from the two girls. They contacted Elizabeth's parents, No one 229 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:23.440 heard anything, and by the next day they started to 230 00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:27.120 get a little more panicky, and mister Davis went ahead 231 00:14:27.159 --> 00:14:32.879 and contacted a man who was then the Attorney General 232 00:14:32.919 --> 00:14:37.080 in the state of Pennsylvania, who I interviewed in the book, 233 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:40.039 and mister Sennett and mister Senaton. I'll try to do 234 00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:43.960 what I can, but at this point they were really 235 00:14:44.120 --> 00:14:48.000 just because in the late nineteen sixties and early nineteen seventies, 236 00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:53.000 missing persons reports were rather common. Kids who both basically 237 00:14:53.320 --> 00:14:55.559 would go off for a few days, and there wasn't 238 00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:58.799 really noa Laura Bell's went off. But as time went 239 00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:03.279 on Dan over that week weekend, it became very apparent 240 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:06.120 that something something had gone wrong. In fact, both both 241 00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:10.759 fathers had instinctly, instinctively something had gone wrong. So they 242 00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:15.879 wound up renting a helicopter and done a sleep over 243 00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:17.759 the woods to see if they could find any signs 244 00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:22.759 of wreckage. So that's how the Davis and mister Davis 245 00:15:23.480 --> 00:15:28.320 had some of the investigation began into their into their disappearance. 246 00:15:30.759 --> 00:15:34.360 You meanwhile, talk about two New Jersey State troopers that 247 00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:37.919 are assigned early morning patrol in the southern corner of 248 00:15:38.279 --> 00:15:43.200 Parkway on Memorial Day weekend nineteen sixty nine. This is 249 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:49.240 troopers James Dunbar. He's twenty twenty four years old, and 250 00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:57.240 later John Stare tell us about this patrol on Memorial 251 00:15:57.320 --> 00:15:57.960 Day weekend. 252 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:05.679 Okay, true, Dunbar and Trooper's Dunbar and Ster were both 253 00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:10.759 stationed out of the Avalon New Jersey State Police Barracks. 254 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:14.600 Their route was a twenty four mile loop that started there, 255 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:19.879 went down along the Parkway and back. So mister Dunbar 256 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:23.080 had gone and had the first ship earlier in the 257 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:26.639 morning and said he didn't see anything. The next person 258 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:30.159 was Trooper Ster. Trooper Ster went along and saw the 259 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:33.279 girl's car abandoned on the side of the road. Or 260 00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:34.960 what he didn't know is that their car at that 261 00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:39.159 time was actually Susan's convertible. He pulled over. It was 262 00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:43.200 near mile marker thirty one point nine on the Parkway 263 00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:45.039 mile plus thirty one point nine. He pulled over and 264 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:47.360 he didn't see anything that would suggest that there was 265 00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:55.519 any foul play. Susan's straw purse was located downstairs, I'm 266 00:16:55.559 --> 00:16:59.480 saying down downstairs in the in the car itself, there 267 00:16:59.559 --> 00:17:02.679 was no indication again that the car had skidded off 268 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:05.440 the side of the road and a mechanical breakdown. He 269 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:10.839 presumed it was abandoned. He then called in uh to both, 270 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:12.960 I guess it was because there was a Pennsylvania tag. 271 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:15.960 He called into the Pennsylvania Division of Motor Vehicles the 272 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:18.839 port of the tag number, and the person there mistakenly 273 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:22.160 relayed back that it belonged to another person, So he 274 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:25.960 presumed it was abandoned. He had no idea at the 275 00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:29.759 point at that point Dan that in fact the fathers 276 00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:33.640 you know, had there was the missing girls. So he 277 00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:37.039 went ahead and had it toad at a place called 278 00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:41.200 Blazer's garage, no longer in existence. They came along and 279 00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:45.359 they had the car towed and it remained there at 280 00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:48.839 this guy's garage Blazier's garage in Northfield not too far away, 281 00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:52.559 for three days and at this point, the parents had 282 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:55.559 done the helicopter and it was you know, in the newspapers, 283 00:17:55.599 --> 00:17:57.880 The New York Times had reported that these these two 284 00:17:57.880 --> 00:18:01.759 girls were missing. So when uh super Stir was back 285 00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:04.960 from a fishing vacation that weekend, he sees, you know, 286 00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:07.160 the teletypes of the missing persons and he puts two 287 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:09.920 and two together and that's when he says, oh, you know, 288 00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:12.400 I went over there and it was these girls and 289 00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:14.400 the fact too, it was and that's when the investigation. 290 00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:17.319 That's when the investigation began. But it was it was 291 00:18:17.480 --> 00:18:19.559 I don't want to say it was an oversight, but 292 00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:22.240 I don't know there was anything really Trooper STERI could 293 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:26.359 have done. But maybe he should have investigated into the 294 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:29.400 woods right there. But do we know that the girls 295 00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:31.240 were dead at the time that he came by. The 296 00:18:31.799 --> 00:18:35.440 corner had indicated that the times of death was about 297 00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:38.160 forty five minutes within the time they had left the diner, 298 00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:42.559 which was about six a m giver take. So he 299 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:45.759 drove by and saw the car at about eight am, 300 00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:48.319 So the crime would have taken point at that place. 301 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:52.960 But that's that's how they initially discovered Susan's car on 302 00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:54.519 the side of the road with. 303 00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:58.240 A lucky landslide, you can get lucky just about anywhere. 304 00:18:59.079 --> 00:19:02.640 It's you, Captain's. We've got clear runway and the weather's fine. 305 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:04.400 But we're just gonna circle up here a while and 306 00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:07.599 get lucky. Oh no, nothing like that. 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Literally fifteen minutes into the search, a 333 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:31.559 guy named Elwood Fonce literally stumbled across the bodies. They 334 00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:37.240 were covered in leaves. One of the women had been 335 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:41.519 found completely nude, the other was dressed except for her shoes. 336 00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:45.240 And this is where they this is this is essentially 337 00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:47.799 how they how they found the bodies, and as far 338 00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:51.240 as you know, what was found there, there was no 339 00:20:51.319 --> 00:20:55.160 evidence really that it had taken place anywhere other than there. 340 00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:57.480 In other words, with the bodies dumped, et cetera, et cetera. 341 00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:00.000 They simply found them there, and they were concealed and 342 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:02.400 obviously had been stabbed at death. 343 00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:09.519 So, in terms of motive for this crime and evidence 344 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:15.599 of robbery, what's the situation there that police find that fascinating? 345 00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:22.799 There there was no evidence of robbery. Susan's person again 346 00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:27.279 was left in the car. Elizabeth's was found nearby her 347 00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:30.920 and there were a few dollars bills in there. I 348 00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:36.799 had found again through research that Elizabeth actually had on 349 00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:43.920 her hands jewelry, some rather expensive heirlooms containing diamonds and 350 00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:48.519 so forth, and charm bracelets. So did think if the 351 00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:53.559 person's motive was robbery, why wouldn't they have taken those 352 00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:59.160 things that they weren't? They were left there. So as 353 00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:02.240 far as motive, this is difficult to discern from that 354 00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:07.160 what his motive was based upon him not taking anything 355 00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:10.079 and merely killing him, not robbing them, and basically fleeing 356 00:22:10.119 --> 00:22:11.839 the scene. 357 00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:17.559 What about the three day delay and basically being able 358 00:22:17.559 --> 00:22:19.839 to find those bodies, What did it do in terms 359 00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:26.160 of decomposition, in terms of the coroner's motive or mode 360 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:26.599 of death? 361 00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:31.880 Basically, Well, the thing was I had spoken with a 362 00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:36.680 retired detective named John Devil. John had been to the 363 00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:40.920 crime scene. He didn't have jurisdiction. Jurisdiction resided with the 364 00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:44.839 New Jersey State Police because it was found alongside the parkway, 365 00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:49.640 and John had indicated to me that there was just 366 00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:52.880 because it was a very hot weekend. It was really 367 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:57.920 an accelerated rate of decomposition with the bodies, so they 368 00:22:57.960 --> 00:23:01.640 were never able because of that to find whether or 369 00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:06.559 not either of the girls had been sexually assaulted. So 370 00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:11.079 you know that certainly that was the three day lag 371 00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:15.079 really contributed to sort of the mystery as to what 372 00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:21.079 exactly happened at the scene. So the also. 373 00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:26.640 Through their analysis investigation, they also saw that the nothing 374 00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:29.000 indicated to the vehicle then forced off the road, and 375 00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:31.359 the gas tank was three quarter full and the battery 376 00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:35.960 was charged. They hadn't pulled over due to a technical 377 00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:42.640 problem in terms of in terms of any signs of struggle, 378 00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:46.559 what did it seem like and what was their early 379 00:23:46.680 --> 00:23:49.319 hypothesis in terms of how they came to their demise 380 00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:50.480 on that roadside. 381 00:23:51.079 --> 00:23:55.000 Well, that's that's the sixty four thousand dollars question. Damn, 382 00:23:55.160 --> 00:23:57.920 we just don't know because there were no signs, I mean, 383 00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:03.200 there was the Initially police considered, well, you know, was 384 00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:05.680 it a hitchhiker that they had that pulled them over, 385 00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:11.160 you know, was the car abandoned? Obviously, the police determined 386 00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:13.319 that there was no mechanical problems that had run out 387 00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:17.359 of gas, So we really don't know what exactly caused 388 00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:20.279 them to pull over in the first place, nor do 389 00:24:20.359 --> 00:24:23.880 we know what caused this person to go ahead and 390 00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:27.000 kill them in the manner that they did at that 391 00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:31.640 time of the day. Now, sunrise, according to my research, 392 00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:35.839 was at five twenty nine am. So what you have 393 00:24:35.920 --> 00:24:39.359 to recognize is because this occurred at peak sunlight, you know, 394 00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:42.160 not peak sunlight hours, but when there was light at 395 00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:44.559 that time of the day. That sort of adds to 396 00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:47.119 the whole mystery of it. Why would a person, if 397 00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:48.880 in fact they were pulled over to the side of 398 00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:52.319 the road, why would he do this in pure daylight 399 00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:55.039 and commit this act so close to the side of 400 00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:58.240 the road with these people is presumably the guy was 401 00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:01.720