WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Between two thousand seven and two thousand nine, women began

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<v Speaker 1>disappearing from Cleveland's Mount Pleasant neighborhood. They were mothers, daughters,

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<v Speaker 1>and friends, and they were also people living in the

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<v Speaker 1>marchants of society, people whose absences unfortunately rarely made headlines. Then,

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<v Speaker 1>in October of two thousand nine, a single escape led

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<v Speaker 1>police to a house where a search quickly turned into

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<v Speaker 1>a nightmare, with gruesome secrets hidden throughout the home, revealing

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<v Speaker 1>years of violence that had unfolded behind an ordinary front door.

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<v Speaker 1>The man responsible, Anthony Sewell, had committed the most prolific

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<v Speaker 1>serial murder case in Cleveland's history, and soon he would

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<v Speaker 1>be known only as a deadly moniker. This is the

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<v Speaker 1>story of the Cleveland Strangler.

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<v Speaker 2>My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and.

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<v Speaker 1>Grim, a true crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Warning.

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<v Speaker 1>The following podcast material intended more mature audience. Listener discretion

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<v Speaker 1>is advised. If you've listened to our show for a

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<v Speaker 1>little while, you know we're hockey fans and we've been

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<v Speaker 1>following the Olympics. So I want to first of all

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<v Speaker 1>congratulate everyone for the performance in the Olympics so far

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<v Speaker 1>this year. But I primarily want to just say a

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<v Speaker 1>big shout out and congratulations to the Canadian women's hockey

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<v Speaker 1>team who got silver in the Olympics, and of course

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<v Speaker 1>the American team who got gold. There's a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>pressure on the women's Canadian team to get that gold,

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<v Speaker 1>so they looked a little disappointed on the.

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<v Speaker 2>Ice, but you should never be disappointed by getting a

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<v Speaker 2>silver and the frickin' Olympic exactly, I get it, exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, they went all that way to lose the

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<v Speaker 1>last round, so that is disappointing of course for them,

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<v Speaker 1>I understand, but they still achieved an incredible thing. So congratulations.

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<v Speaker 1>As a Canadian, I'm proud of their performance. Yeah, they

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<v Speaker 1>did amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>And congratulations to the US, yes, who won the gold.

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<v Speaker 2>Better not be like that for the men's though, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>just kidding, just kidding.

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<v Speaker 1>Regardless, we're having fun watching hockey and actually we're recording

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<v Speaker 1>this right now as Canada. The men's team is playing Finland.

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<v Speaker 1>Finland is currently up to zero, so hopefully we make

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<v Speaker 1>it to the gold medal. If not, Finland will then

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<v Speaker 1>be going to the gold medal round. But either way,

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<v Speaker 1>we're on the edge of our seats. With this whole

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<v Speaker 1>Olympic thing. And I'm not sure if you guys are too,

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<v Speaker 1>but you should definitely get into hockey. That's I recommendation.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it is cool. I mean yeah, just watching it.

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<v Speaker 2>No matter how while your country does right, it's still

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<v Speaker 2>pretty neat and it's cool that they made it.

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<v Speaker 1>There supporting your athletes. Like we've been watching curling and stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I've watched a little bit of figure skating, a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit of bob sled. I've been wanting to watch luge,

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<v Speaker 1>but I haven't got to that. Biathlon's another one I

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<v Speaker 1>saw a little bit of, but not a whole lot.

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<v Speaker 1>But still it's so cool to see.

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<v Speaker 2>Well. Yeah, and the dog that was, oh, probably my

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<v Speaker 2>favorite part of the Olympics so far.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, there's the two highlights of the Olympics as

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<v Speaker 1>far as the Internet is concerned. That's the Canadian men's

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<v Speaker 1>team on curling poking the rock and second, the dog

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<v Speaker 1>crossing a finish line over a ski race.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>The dog's name was Nasgul reportedly by the way, and.

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<v Speaker 2>It just looked like it was living its best life. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and that was freaking amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>That's amazing. But I think we should get on with

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<v Speaker 1>this case. But Canada did just score against Finland, so

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<v Speaker 1>what's two to one right now? But anyways, I digress.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's get onto this.

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<v Speaker 2>Story, shall we, Yes, let's do it.

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<v Speaker 1>So. Late October has a certain rhythm to it. Of course,

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<v Speaker 1>there are spooky things like pumpkins, candy, and maybe even

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<v Speaker 1>a scary movie or two. But the days also feel

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<v Speaker 1>shorter without anyone really noticing at first, Jackets begin to

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<v Speaker 1>come out of the closets, you know, breath hangs in

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<v Speaker 1>the air for a second longer than they did in

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<v Speaker 1>the mornings, and people move a little faster with their

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<v Speaker 1>hands tucked in their pockets for warmth. Most days even

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<v Speaker 1>pass quietly, work errands, small conversations that don't last very long.

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<v Speaker 1>Whatever it may be, one thing is certain. Life moves

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<v Speaker 1>forward in ordinary pieces, each moment small enough to forget

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<v Speaker 1>by the end of the day, and before you know it,

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<v Speaker 1>your entire surroundings have changed. You know, something like a

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<v Speaker 1>tree that was once full of leaves, and in a

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<v Speaker 1>blink of an eye you know it now is standing

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<v Speaker 1>there bare No one knows which day will matter Like this,

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<v Speaker 1>life simply moves on now. In this case, it was

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<v Speaker 1>just another week another stretch of hours where people are

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<v Speaker 1>focused on their own lives, trying to stay warm, but

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<v Speaker 1>trying to get by, and you know, not thinking too

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<v Speaker 1>far ahead. Somewhere nearby in the autumn air in this story,

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<v Speaker 1>a phone rang, someone was making a call for help,

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<v Speaker 1>and suddenly, just like that, an ordinary day isn't ordinary anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>All those small details, well, they seemed significant, and everything

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<v Speaker 1>seemed like it changed. It was in East Cleveland, Ohio,

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<v Speaker 1>in October twentieth of two thousand and nine. Someone had

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<v Speaker 1>dialed nine to one pint one and reported that a

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<v Speaker 1>woman outside a house on Imperial Avenue was laying on

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<v Speaker 1>the ground. She was injured, confused, and struggling to stay conscious.

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<v Speaker 1>They said she'd fallen or even possibly jumped, from a

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<v Speaker 1>second story window of the home. Police and paramedics were

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<v Speaker 1>quickly dispatched to the scene, and when they arrived, with

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<v Speaker 1>their flashing lights splashing across the surrounding homes, that neighborhood

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<v Speaker 1>quickly turned into a serious crime scene. The woman was

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<v Speaker 1>badly hurt, she could barely speak, and with her body

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<v Speaker 1>shaking from pain and shock, she tried to explain what

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<v Speaker 1>had just happened inside the house behind her officers moved quickly,

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<v Speaker 1>first focusing on her injuries, trying to understand whether this

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<v Speaker 1>was an accident, an assault, or something else entirely. But

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<v Speaker 1>the woman told them that she'd been inside the home

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<v Speaker 1>with a man and at some point things turned violent,

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<v Speaker 1>so she jumped from the window. She said it was

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<v Speaker 1>the only way she thought she could escape. Now, the

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<v Speaker 1>house in question behind her looked ordinary enough, white siding,

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<v Speaker 1>There's a narrow porch and a kind of aging three

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<v Speaker 1>story home that just blended in with the older buildings

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<v Speaker 1>in the neighborhood. Others were boarded up, some lived in.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, they're all packed tightly close together. Now, officers

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<v Speaker 1>had been called to this area before. Drug activity wasn't uncommon, arguments, assaults,

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<v Speaker 1>people coming and going at odd hours. It was all

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<v Speaker 1>the kind of place where things happened, and most people

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<v Speaker 1>kept moving, minding their own business. At the time, it

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<v Speaker 1>looked just like another disturbing call in a city that

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<v Speaker 1>saw way too many of these disturbing incidents. But what

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<v Speaker 1>police didn't know was that the house at one two

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<v Speaker 1>two h five Imperial Avenue had already been holding secrets

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<v Speaker 1>for years. But before we dive down that rabbit hole,

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<v Speaker 1>we first need to take a step back and talk

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<v Speaker 1>about a man named Anthony Edward Sewell. Now. Anthony was

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<v Speaker 1>born on August nineteenth, nineteen fifty nine, and he grew

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<v Speaker 1>up in East Cleveland, Ohio, and he came from a

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<v Speaker 1>large family. The household he grew up in was crowded, chaotic, and,

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<v Speaker 1>according to later accounts from some relatives, was deeply troubled too.

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<v Speaker 1>Stories from family members described an environment filled with violence

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<v Speaker 1>and abuse. As a teenager, Anthony eventually left that home

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<v Speaker 1>behind and he joined the United States Marine Corps. He

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<v Speaker 1>enlisted in January of nineteen seventy eight at eighteen years old,

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<v Speaker 1>and over the next seven years he served as an electrician,

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<v Speaker 1>completing training at Paris Island and Camp I'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>get this wrong, but I'm going to try Camp led

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<v Speaker 1>you in before being stationed at multiple bases, including assignments

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<v Speaker 1>in Japan and Okinawa too. Now, his service records showed

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<v Speaker 1>there was steady performance, There were commendments, there were deployment ribbons,

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<v Speaker 1>and a discharge in January of nineteen eighty five. After

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<v Speaker 1>leaving the military, Anthony returned to Ohio. He worked jobs

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<v Speaker 1>from here and kept a low profile blending into the

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<v Speaker 1>neighborhood that he lived in. But in nineteen eighty nine,

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<v Speaker 1>the normal life that he seemed to be living, well,

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<v Speaker 1>it all changed. That year, a young pregnant woman went

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<v Speaker 1>to Anthony's home. Now, according to court records, what began

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<v Speaker 1>as a normal visit quickly turned violent when she tried

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<v Speaker 1>to leave because Anthony, well, he refused to let her leave.

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<v Speaker 1>Prosecutors later said that he restrained her, tying her hands

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<v Speaker 1>and feet, gagging her so she couldn't call for help.

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<v Speaker 1>And now, during this assault, he choked her with enough

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<v Speaker 1>force that she later told police the feeling of her

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<v Speaker 1>body going numb, and she believed she was going to

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<v Speaker 1>die right then and there.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is a pregnant woman, correct, Holy frick? Why

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<v Speaker 2>the hell was she there? Were they friends?

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<v Speaker 1>We'll get into kind of some of the why people

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<v Speaker 1>visit his home.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, but gosh, I couldn't imagine just harming a pregnant

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<v Speaker 2>woman like that. That's next level.

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<v Speaker 1>He's a serious predator, to say the least. Yeah, so

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<v Speaker 1>people do. I'll tell you a little bit now, but

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<v Speaker 1>we'll go into deeper detail. People do visit his home.

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<v Speaker 1>He kind of lures people in with a friendly facade

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<v Speaker 1>and also drugs, alcohol, that sort of thing. So it's

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<v Speaker 1>kind of a hangout place with perks.

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<v Speaker 2>O okay, I see now.

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<v Speaker 1>Thankfully though she survived this attack, but it did lead

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<v Speaker 1>to some charges of kidnapping, rape, and attempted rape on

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<v Speaker 1>this woman.

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<v Speaker 2>Like he raped her. Correct, Holy frig yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>As I said, he's a serious predator. Okay, he's a monster.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah now. In nineteen ninety, Anthony pled guilty to attempted

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<v Speaker 1>rape and was sentenced to prison. As a result, he

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<v Speaker 1>would spend the next fifteen years behind bars, and when

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<v Speaker 1>he was released in two thousand and five, he returned

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<v Speaker 1>to Cleveland as a Tier three registered sex offender, the

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<v Speaker 1>highest tier which requires regular check ins with law enforcement.

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<v Speaker 1>So as a result, officers conducted periodic like knock and

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<v Speaker 1>talk visits to make sure that everything was good and

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<v Speaker 1>to confirm he was living where he claimed to live

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<v Speaker 1>so they can kind of keep track of him. But

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<v Speaker 1>because he wasn't on parole or probation, they didn't have

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<v Speaker 1>authority to enter his home without a warrant, so it

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<v Speaker 1>was basically just talk to the front door check ins

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<v Speaker 1>at the front door. They couldn't go beyond that.

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<v Speaker 2>Threshold, which is really nothing like anyone could just stand

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<v Speaker 2>at their front door and hide shit that's going on

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<v Speaker 2>in their house.

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<v Speaker 1>For sure, But the very least they know where he is.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the key detail. Because if he's like, oh, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>living at this address, and all of a sudden they realize,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, he's living beside a woman's shelter over by

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<v Speaker 1>an elementary school with a sex offender, that's a no no. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so they need to make sure they're at least keeping

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<v Speaker 1>track of him. Yeah scenario.

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<v Speaker 2>This case is probably going to just piss me off

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<v Speaker 2>because I'm just sitting here and being like, well, this

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<v Speaker 2>shouldn't even be an issue because we're having to like

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<v Speaker 2>monitor who's every freaking move or whatever. Just leave him

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<v Speaker 2>in jail if he's this much of like a concern

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<v Speaker 2>to society. But anyway, I digress, keep going.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel you there, don't worry now. Anthony had moved

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<v Speaker 1>into a shared apartment house. It was a three story

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<v Speaker 1>house at one two two oh five Imperial Avenue. He

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<v Speaker 1>lived in the top couple floors. It was a property

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<v Speaker 1>that was owned by his stepmother. Neighbors later described him

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<v Speaker 1>as polite, outgoing and even helpful. He talked to people

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<v Speaker 1>on his front porch. Sometimes he hosted barques and blended

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<v Speaker 1>in with everyone in the neighborhood. He worked factory jobs

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<v Speaker 1>for a while before collecting unemployment and making money selling

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<v Speaker 1>scrap metal. To most people around him, he was just

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<v Speaker 1>another man trying to get by. But while the neighborhood

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<v Speaker 1>saw someone friendly and familiar, the history behind him, the

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<v Speaker 1>violent sex offender, the prison sentence, the assault, the all

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<v Speaker 1>of it. That's what was the truth. It was a

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<v Speaker 1>facade hiding the truth. Now. The Mount Pleasant neighborhood, where

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<v Speaker 1>he lived in Cleveland's East Side, wasn't a place where

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<v Speaker 1>people stopped to ask too many questions, which have kind

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<v Speaker 1>of already alluded to. By the late two thousands, the

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<v Speaker 1>area was struggling pretty hard. Many homes were aging or abandoned,

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<v Speaker 1>jobs were scarce, and drug activity was considered part of

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<v Speaker 1>the daily life here. Crack cocaine, or crack as it's

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<v Speaker 1>typically called, move through neighborhoods openly. People drifted in and out,

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<v Speaker 1>and friends, acquaintances, strangers were all looking for places to

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<v Speaker 1>stay or away to get high. It was a kind

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<v Speaker 1>of environment. Routines were per weren't exactly predictable, and disappearances

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<v Speaker 1>didn't always trigger immediate alarms. It's a place with people

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<v Speaker 1>living on the margins of society, and often they unfortunately

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<v Speaker 1>don't get the immediate attention for their disappearances that they should. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>some women would go missing for days or weeks and

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<v Speaker 1>later return, you know, back to normal. Others bounced between

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<v Speaker 1>family members, homes, shelters, or the streets. Addictions made lives unstable,

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<v Speaker 1>and families often found themselves searching on their own when

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<v Speaker 1>someone stopped answering calls, so police would often assume that

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<v Speaker 1>this would be the case for everyone. Now, this made

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<v Speaker 1>police and residents not always trust each other. Families later

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<v Speaker 1>said that they struggled to get missing persons reports taken seriously,

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<v Speaker 1>especially when their loved ones were known to use drugs

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<v Speaker 1>or had criminal records. In many cases, officers assumed people

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<v Speaker 1>would come back when they were ready. That was a situation.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh they're not missing, they'll just come back.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. We do hear that a lot, and it is

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<v Speaker 2>sad for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>And that atmosphere created a lot of gaps, gaps where

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<v Speaker 1>people could disappear quietly. And it's a story that we've

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<v Speaker 1>discussed many times on this show. You know, that unfortunate situation,

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<v Speaker 1>and it is a problem, unfortunately, that we still struggle

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<v Speaker 1>with today in many societies in North America.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, something you know sometimes is seriously wrong and then

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<v Speaker 2>it's just not getting the attention that it needs exactly

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<v Speaker 2>and then it gets worse.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now, I did say in North America, and I

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<v Speaker 1>do think this is actually a global problem. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I digress. Now, Anthony fit comfortably into the neighborhood's rhythm.

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<v Speaker 1>He was known simply as Tone, you know, Anthony and

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<v Speaker 1>Tony Tone.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Neighbors remembered him as kind, but inside the house things

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<v Speaker 1>were different. The property was cluttered, it was dirty, filled

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<v Speaker 1>with trash, old furniture, and it was, to say the least,

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00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:50.039
<v Speaker 1>it was far from clean. There was also a heavy

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00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:53.879
<v Speaker 1>odor that drifted from the home to something neighbors actually

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00:14:53.879 --> 00:14:56.440
<v Speaker 1>complained about repeatedly, but they never knew the source. They

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00:14:56.440 --> 00:14:59.480
<v Speaker 1>never knew it was coming from his home. Now, for

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<v Speaker 1>the women struggling with addiction, Anthony's house offered something immediate.

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<v Speaker 1>There was alcohol, there was drugs, there was a place

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<v Speaker 1>to stay, maybe someone who even seemed friendly enough to trust,

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<v Speaker 1>and for some of them, that was all. It took

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<v Speaker 1>the conditions around him, you know, poverty, addiction, unstable housing,

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<v Speaker 1>and the community used to chaos. It created the perfect

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00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:28.080
<v Speaker 1>cover for him. People came and went constantly, no one

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<v Speaker 1>kept track of who was last seen where, And it

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<v Speaker 1>was in May of two thousand and seven that this

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<v Speaker 1>setting allowed for a woman named Crystal Dozier to disappear.

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<v Speaker 1>Crystal was thirty eight years old and she was a

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00:15:42.519 --> 00:15:45.399
<v Speaker 1>mother of seven. Yes, that's right, she had seven kids.

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<v Speaker 1>She was known around the neighborhood as someone who looked

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<v Speaker 1>out for others. She was described as responsible and caring,

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<v Speaker 1>the kind of person who tried to keep everyone together.

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<v Speaker 1>But like many people in Mount Pleasant, her life had

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<v Speaker 1>become very complicated by a dick, especially after she had

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00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:06.120
<v Speaker 1>endured some personal loss and a routine wasn't always predictable.

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<v Speaker 1>When she stopped showing up, her family noticed and they

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00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:13.879
<v Speaker 1>reported her missing and started searching on their own, putting

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00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:17.320
<v Speaker 1>up flyers, calling hospitals, trying to track down anyone who

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00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:20.879
<v Speaker 1>might have seen her. Now, Crystal had gone missing before

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00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:24.320
<v Speaker 1>and eventually resurfaced, which made it harder to convince others

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00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:28.039
<v Speaker 1>that something was seriously wrong this time. Now there was

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00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:31.919
<v Speaker 1>no reason to connect this to Anthony. He lived quietly

293
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<v Speaker 1>on Imperial Avenue, socializing with neighbors, keeping a low profile,

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00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:38.759
<v Speaker 1>maybe even throwing a barbecue. Women came and went from

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00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:41.639
<v Speaker 1>his house regularly, sure, often for drugs or alcohol, but

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00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:46.320
<v Speaker 1>that didn't stand out in the neighborhood. Investigators would later learn, though,

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00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:49.159
<v Speaker 1>that this was how he approached many of his victims.

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<v Speaker 1>He offered a drink, a place to relax, drugs, sometimes

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00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:59.000
<v Speaker 1>even just a conversation. The encounters started casually, with little

300
00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:01.600
<v Speaker 1>reason for anyone to feel any sort of immediate danger.

301
00:17:01.639 --> 00:17:04.680
<v Speaker 1>But what happened after they entered that house, well that

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00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:09.119
<v Speaker 1>was another story. Now. Crystal's disappearance didn't spark a major

303
00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:12.640
<v Speaker 1>investigation at the time. There were no obvious signs of violence,

304
00:17:12.920 --> 00:17:16.359
<v Speaker 1>no witnesses stepping forward, no immediate evidence pointing to a

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00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:20.119
<v Speaker 1>crime scene, without a body, without clear leads, the case

306
00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:23.559
<v Speaker 1>faded into just another missing person's report in a neighborhood

307
00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:26.920
<v Speaker 1>where people often slipped through those cracks. But inside the

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00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:31.119
<v Speaker 1>house on Imperial Avenue, though Anthony had discovered he could

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00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:35.920
<v Speaker 1>kill without ever being noticed. In two thousand and eight,

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00:17:36.039 --> 00:17:40.359
<v Speaker 1>women in the area began vanishing one after another, each disappearance,

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00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:43.640
<v Speaker 1>again slipping into the background noise of a struggling neighborhood.

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00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:48.160
<v Speaker 1>Tashana Culver disappeared next. She was a mother who spent

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00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:51.160
<v Speaker 1>years trying to rebuild stability in her life. She was

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00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:54.359
<v Speaker 1>described as generous, someone who shared food with people who

315
00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:57.640
<v Speaker 1>had less than she did. But like many others, she

316
00:17:57.720 --> 00:18:00.799
<v Speaker 1>struggled with drugs and sometimes drifted away from family for

317
00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:04.359
<v Speaker 1>stretches of time. So when she stopped coming around, people worried,

318
00:18:04.599 --> 00:18:08.240
<v Speaker 1>but there was no immediate sign of foul play. A

319
00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:12.839
<v Speaker 1>few months later, Lashonda Long vanished. She was only twenty five,

320
00:18:12.920 --> 00:18:16.039
<v Speaker 1>the youngest of the eventual victims. She was strong willed

321
00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:19.279
<v Speaker 1>and outspoken, and she was known for her attitude and energy.

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00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:24.160
<v Speaker 1>Her disappearance was the same like the others, didn't immediately

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00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:26.799
<v Speaker 1>raise any red flags beyond those closest to her.

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00:18:27.160 --> 00:18:30.799
<v Speaker 2>But also, there's three now in a fairly short period of.

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00:18:30.759 --> 00:18:35.440
<v Speaker 1>Time, exactly. But the thing is, you have authority saying, well,

326
00:18:35.480 --> 00:18:36.400
<v Speaker 1>they'll just come back.

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00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:38.960
<v Speaker 2>Well that's the hope, I guess that's the hope.

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00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:43.119
<v Speaker 1>But they have a history of leaving for weeks on

329
00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:45.680
<v Speaker 1>end and coming back. They have a history of drugs,

330
00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:49.759
<v Speaker 1>criminal behavior, so as far as the police are concerned,

331
00:18:50.119 --> 00:18:51.200
<v Speaker 1>they'll just come back.

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00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:54.319
<v Speaker 2>I mean, maybe one or two I get, but when

333
00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:56.920
<v Speaker 2>there is three, it's like, no, we got to look

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00:18:56.920 --> 00:18:57.319
<v Speaker 2>into this.

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00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:00.680
<v Speaker 1>In my thought, oh no, I'm with you hundred percent.

336
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:04.079
<v Speaker 1>I'm just trying to paint the picture for the authorities here. Yeah,

337
00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:07.039
<v Speaker 1>trust me, you're right, there's a pattern. Police need to

338
00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:10.519
<v Speaker 1>fucking do something. But to them, it's just another person

339
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:13.680
<v Speaker 1>who will be back within days. It's another person who

340
00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:17.519
<v Speaker 1>is just off doing drugs. They'll be back. It's not

341
00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:19.319
<v Speaker 1>worth tying up our time.

342
00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:23.839
<v Speaker 2>Basically they're off on a bender or something. And they exactly, yeah.

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00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:27.079
<v Speaker 1>We know, because in hindsight, there are three people who

344
00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:30.119
<v Speaker 1>are missing right now. Maybe at the time, this is

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00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:33.559
<v Speaker 1>just my speculation. Maybe at the time there's another three

346
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:35.960
<v Speaker 1>people who did return in a few days who are

347
00:19:35.960 --> 00:19:38.440
<v Speaker 1>also missing, who were just on venders.

348
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:41.920
<v Speaker 2>Well yeah, and they might not have, like you know,

349
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:44.960
<v Speaker 2>tied them together to see the pattern either.

350
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<v Speaker 1>So, and you also have to consider the fact of

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00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:50.880
<v Speaker 1>were they actually reported to police. You have families who

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00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:54.000
<v Speaker 1>might be concerned, but maybe the families thought they'd be

353
00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:56.839
<v Speaker 1>back to Maybe the families couldn't trust the police because

354
00:19:56.839 --> 00:19:59.839
<v Speaker 1>of this history so there's more than just well, there's

355
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:02.359
<v Speaker 1>three people missing. You to look into it. Yeah, don't

356
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:05.519
<v Speaker 1>get me wrong, you're right, but there's a little more

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00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:06.039
<v Speaker 1>to it than that.

358
00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:08.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, and it probably will very much. It comes out

359
00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:11.359
<v Speaker 2>clear later, you know, Like at the time it's like,

360
00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:15.880
<v Speaker 2>maybe not super alarming, but really after the fact, yes,

361
00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:17.000
<v Speaker 2>it was exactly.

362
00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:19.720
<v Speaker 1>And now these disappearances too, they're over the course of

363
00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:22.319
<v Speaker 1>the next two years, so they are being spread out

364
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<v Speaker 1>a bit as well. Next came Michelle Mason. She had

365
00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:28.079
<v Speaker 1>spent time away from Cleveland, living in New York and

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00:20:28.119 --> 00:20:31.319
<v Speaker 1>New Jersey before returning home. Her family did file a

367
00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:33.759
<v Speaker 1>missing person's report when she stopped hearing when they stopped

368
00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:36.799
<v Speaker 1>hearing from her, but progress on that was unfortunately slow.

369
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<v Speaker 1>Friends said that she had been trying to turn her

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<v Speaker 1>life around despite struggling with her addiction. By late two

371
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<v Speaker 1>thousand and eight, Tanya Carmichael also disappeared. She had once

372
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<v Speaker 1>worked as a medical secretary and bartender, earning a professional

373
00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:56.519
<v Speaker 1>license and raising children, but addiction eventually pulled her off course.

374
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<v Speaker 1>But people knew her still, and they described her as

375
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<v Speaker 1>someone who loved life and cared deeply about her family.

376
00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:05.839
<v Speaker 1>But the months just continued to pass, and so did

377
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<v Speaker 1>the disappearances. Kim Yvette Smith went missing in early two

378
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<v Speaker 1>thousand and nine, just before her forty fourth birthday. She

379
00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:18.720
<v Speaker 1>was known as artistic and caring, especially towards her disabled father,

380
00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:22.839
<v Speaker 1>whom she helped support. Nancy Cobbs vanished that spring, after

381
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<v Speaker 1>her family had spent months searching for them herselves, posting

382
00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:31.480
<v Speaker 1>flyers and checking abandoned buildings. Amelda or Amy Hunter disappeared

383
00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:34.240
<v Speaker 1>soon after her. She was a beautician, a mother, and

384
00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:38.519
<v Speaker 1>someone relatives described as a fighter than Janis Webb, remembered

385
00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:41.359
<v Speaker 1>as a family jokester. She stopped coming around, and not

386
00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:45.920
<v Speaker 1>long after that, Talasia Forston vanished, just as people close

387
00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:48.000
<v Speaker 1>to her believed she was trying to get her life

388
00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:48.559
<v Speaker 1>back together.

389
00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:51.880
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit, this is a lot of people.

390
00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:55.599
<v Speaker 1>The numbers piled up, and each woman had their own story,

391
00:21:55.640 --> 00:22:00.400
<v Speaker 1>their own family, their own history, But investigators eventually would

392
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:04.160
<v Speaker 1>later see the similarities in these disappearances. Most of them

393
00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:07.319
<v Speaker 1>were struggling with addiction. Many moved through the same streets

394
00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:09.960
<v Speaker 1>and social circles. They were women who might accept an

395
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:12.480
<v Speaker 1>invitation for a drink or drugs, or even a place

396
00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:15.359
<v Speaker 1>to stay for a while, and they were all vulnerable

397
00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:21.279
<v Speaker 1>in ways that Anthony seemed to understand. Investigators later determined

398
00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:24.960
<v Speaker 1>that Anthony luring them in and gaining their trust that's

399
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:28.160
<v Speaker 1>when he struck and he never allowed them to leave

400
00:22:28.519 --> 00:22:33.039
<v Speaker 1>his home after. So, yes, you are one hundred percent right,

401
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:36.039
<v Speaker 1>Like investigators need to be more on top of these

402
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:43.279
<v Speaker 1>missing persons reports, but unfortunately they're screening methods, if you will,

403
00:22:43.880 --> 00:22:45.480
<v Speaker 1>are flawed and imperfect.

404
00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:49.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah well, yeah, I mean we've already said after the fact,

405
00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:53.119
<v Speaker 2>it's much easier to figure the stuff out. But this

406
00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:58.599
<v Speaker 2>guy was literally in jail for fifteen years being rehabilitated.

407
00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:02.400
<v Speaker 2>Heym hm, this shit's happening, yep. Okay.

408
00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:06.319
<v Speaker 1>Now, most of these women who were going disappearing or

409
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:08.920
<v Speaker 1>disappearing or whatever, they were at the hand of Anthony.

410
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:10.960
<v Speaker 1>I want to make that clear. I'm not trying to

411
00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:15.640
<v Speaker 1>hide the storyline right now. These women were victims of Anthony.

412
00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:18.359
<v Speaker 1>Most of these women were sexually assaulted too, and they

413
00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:20.079
<v Speaker 1>were killed by strangulation.

414
00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:21.039
<v Speaker 2>Jeez.

415
00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:24.119
<v Speaker 1>The attacks happened behind closed doors. They were hidden from

416
00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:27.559
<v Speaker 1>the neighborhood. The neighborhood that remember had no idea was

417
00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:31.319
<v Speaker 1>taking place inside this home. To them, Anthony was just

418
00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:34.240
<v Speaker 1>a friendly face, someone to chat to on the front porch,

419
00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:37.200
<v Speaker 1>someone who was carrying throwing the neighborhood barbecues.

420
00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:40.640
<v Speaker 2>Jeez, yeah, he's really able to just like have these

421
00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:44.960
<v Speaker 2>two personalities per se exactly. And so the only thing

422
00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:47.319
<v Speaker 2>really that people maybe are noticing right now, or the

423
00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:49.359
<v Speaker 2>smell that his house stinks.

424
00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:51.559
<v Speaker 1>They don't even notice its house. It's his house yet.

425
00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:54.119
<v Speaker 1>Trust me, I'll get into the smell too. Don't worry,

426
00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:57.759
<v Speaker 1>okay now. As the killings continued, the way he had

427
00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:01.480
<v Speaker 1>bodies changed. Some victims were concealed inside the home in

428
00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:04.559
<v Speaker 1>rooms or in crawl spaces or behind walls. Others were

429
00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:07.160
<v Speaker 1>buried in the basement or the backyard, and as space

430
00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:09.799
<v Speaker 1>ran out, the methods became more desperate, as the house

431
00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:14.720
<v Speaker 1>itself slowly turned into a graveyard, but outside life carried

432
00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:17.799
<v Speaker 1>on with no one knowing the truth. The problem was

433
00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:21.000
<v Speaker 1>that no signs on their own looked like proof of

434
00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:26.759
<v Speaker 1>anything sinister. They existed as separate incidents, complaints, rumors, strange smells,

435
00:24:26.839 --> 00:24:30.079
<v Speaker 1>just scattered pieces that never quite formed a complete picture

436
00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:33.799
<v Speaker 1>until it was too late, And that most persistent warning

437
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:38.000
<v Speaker 1>was the odor. Neighbors had complained for years about a

438
00:24:38.119 --> 00:24:43.319
<v Speaker 1>powerful rotting smell drifting through the block. Some described it

439
00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:46.759
<v Speaker 1>as sickening, others that it reminded them of something dead.

440
00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:50.720
<v Speaker 1>The smell seemed strongest near Anthony's house, but in a

441
00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:55.559
<v Speaker 1>neighborhood filled with old buildings, vacant lots, struggling businesses, people

442
00:24:55.640 --> 00:25:00.359
<v Speaker 1>searched for more ordinary explanations. Now just next time door

443
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:04.400
<v Speaker 1>set Raise Sausage Shop, a local meat processing business, which

444
00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:08.960
<v Speaker 1>quickly became the assumed source of the smell. City inspectors

445
00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:12.160
<v Speaker 1>were called multiple times, and the owners spent large amounts

446
00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:16.680
<v Speaker 1>of money trying to correct what they believe was the problem.

447
00:25:17.079 --> 00:25:20.200
<v Speaker 1>They were, you know, replacing ventilation systems, adjusting grease traps,

448
00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:25.079
<v Speaker 1>even making sewer improvements, but nothing worked. The smell still lingered,

449
00:25:25.079 --> 00:25:28.920
<v Speaker 1>and eventually people stopped asking questions. It simply became part

450
00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:29.680
<v Speaker 1>of the neighborhood.

451
00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:32.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, this poor ray guy here, he's probably just like

452
00:25:32.440 --> 00:25:34.920
<v Speaker 2>what the fuck Like, I'm I'm not doing anything to

453
00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:38.720
<v Speaker 2>create these smells. Yeah, and just people, you know, it

454
00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:41.039
<v Speaker 2>stinks like going hard on him.

455
00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:42.680
<v Speaker 1>It's probably affecting his business.

456
00:25:42.680 --> 00:25:45.039
<v Speaker 2>Probably did. Yeah, I was just thinking that too. Yeah, well,

457
00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:46.880
<v Speaker 2>not selling as many sausages.

458
00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:49.799
<v Speaker 1>Not only that, the money he's spending on these corrections too,

459
00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:53.480
<v Speaker 1>so he's making less money and spending more dah, So

460
00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:56.240
<v Speaker 1>he in a certain sense is a victim of the

461
00:25:56.279 --> 00:25:57.000
<v Speaker 1>story as well.

462
00:25:57.079 --> 00:25:59.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, because no one with that kind of smell,

463
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:02.000
<v Speaker 2>no one's going to go in there and want to

464
00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:05.839
<v Speaker 2>like buy his product promly, right. Sure so.

465
00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:11.000
<v Speaker 1>Now Anthony himself, though, he did smell bad too, which

466
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:14.000
<v Speaker 1>is something friends and neighbors occasionally mentioned. But again there

467
00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:16.920
<v Speaker 1>were explanations that felt easier to accept. He just had

468
00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:20.720
<v Speaker 1>poor hygiene or garbage, drugs, the general condition of his house.

469
00:26:20.759 --> 00:26:24.160
<v Speaker 1>The list goes on, right, just making up excuses. At

470
00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:27.599
<v Speaker 1>the same time, there were warning signs involving law enforcement that,

471
00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:31.359
<v Speaker 1>in hindsight, seemed impossible to ignore. Now. As I mentioned,

472
00:26:31.400 --> 00:26:35.000
<v Speaker 1>because Anthony was a registered sex offender, officers regularly checked

473
00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:38.039
<v Speaker 1>in with him. He was required to report to authorities

474
00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:41.960
<v Speaker 1>every few months, and deputies sometime conducted unannounced visits to

475
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:44.960
<v Speaker 1>confirm where he was living as well at his Imperial

476
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:49.559
<v Speaker 1>Avenue address. However, this was limited. Officers had no legal

477
00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:52.400
<v Speaker 1>authority to enter his home, so the interactions were limited

478
00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:55.640
<v Speaker 1>to just the doorway, you know, brief conversations, routine paperwork,

479
00:26:56.039 --> 00:27:00.240
<v Speaker 1>nothing that would reveal what he was hiding inside. Again,

480
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:04.039
<v Speaker 1>the smell, oh well that's coming from next door. No one,

481
00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:07.440
<v Speaker 1>they're working on the ventilation or the drainage or the

482
00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:10.720
<v Speaker 1>sewer or something like that. So again, even though they're

483
00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:13.319
<v Speaker 1>standing at his front door with the smell, it's easily

484
00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:14.079
<v Speaker 1>explained away.

485
00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:18.000
<v Speaker 2>Totally. Yeah, they should honestly be able to have authority

486
00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:18.880
<v Speaker 2>to go inside.

487
00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:22.160
<v Speaker 1>Hey, but he needed to be on parole or something

488
00:27:22.359 --> 00:27:23.119
<v Speaker 1>and he wasn't.

489
00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:26.440
<v Speaker 2>I know, Like, I get that they weren't, but gosh,

490
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:29.400
<v Speaker 2>this it would make this case, for example, a lot

491
00:27:29.480 --> 00:27:32.000
<v Speaker 2>easier if they were able to just you know, wander

492
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:33.680
<v Speaker 2>through every so often as well.

493
00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:36.839
<v Speaker 1>I agree if if they should be able to enter

494
00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:39.480
<v Speaker 1>the home of a fucking sex offender, Yeah, they should

495
00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:41.960
<v Speaker 1>be able to check in. Let's see in there, you know,

496
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:44.000
<v Speaker 1>because who knows, maybe you can go to another fucking

497
00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:47.160
<v Speaker 1>town and collect a person, steal someone, and you're hiding

498
00:27:47.240 --> 00:27:49.240
<v Speaker 1>them in there. How many stories have we heard where

499
00:27:49.240 --> 00:27:52.480
<v Speaker 1>people with a sex offend or history are hiding people

500
00:27:52.519 --> 00:27:53.759
<v Speaker 1>for years in their basement?

501
00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:56.119
<v Speaker 2>For you, Yeah, like, I mean, I get they want

502
00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:58.160
<v Speaker 2>to know where they are and stuff, but really, what

503
00:27:58.599 --> 00:28:01.000
<v Speaker 2>how much are you gaining from just going to their

504
00:28:01.039 --> 00:28:03.599
<v Speaker 2>front door. I don't feel like it's much at all.

505
00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:05.759
<v Speaker 1>The checks definitely need to be deeper. You should have

506
00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:09.720
<v Speaker 1>the authority to enter their home. Opinion. Now, while these

507
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:13.920
<v Speaker 1>checks did continue, women in the area were reporting violence.

508
00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:16.839
<v Speaker 1>Now during the time when women were disappearing. In September

509
00:28:16.839 --> 00:28:19.359
<v Speaker 1>of two thousand and eight, a woman later identified as

510
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:22.759
<v Speaker 1>Vanessa Gay told police she had been attacked after going

511
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:25.720
<v Speaker 1>to a house on Imperial Avenue for drugs and alcohol.

512
00:28:26.279 --> 00:28:30.680
<v Speaker 1>She described being attacked and sexually assaulted for hours, and

513
00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:34.160
<v Speaker 1>she said she barely escaped, but when she was told

514
00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:37.000
<v Speaker 1>she needed to come to the station to file those charges,

515
00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:40.240
<v Speaker 1>while fear and distrust of the authorities kept her from

516
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:44.319
<v Speaker 1>following through, and so the case while it stalled before

517
00:28:44.319 --> 00:28:45.119
<v Speaker 1>it ever really began.

518
00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:48.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm assuming the plan there was for her not to

519
00:28:48.759 --> 00:28:52.079
<v Speaker 2>have ever escaped, though.

520
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:51.680
<v Speaker 1>It likely was.

521
00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:52.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

522
00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:55.000
<v Speaker 1>Now. Only a few months later, in December of two

523
00:28:55.039 --> 00:28:59.000
<v Speaker 1>thousand and eight, another woman, Gladys Wade, flagged down police

524
00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:01.880
<v Speaker 1>officers and said a man had tried to rape and

525
00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:07.880
<v Speaker 1>kill her. Officers as a result arrested Anthony, but he

526
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:11.640
<v Speaker 1>claimed she had attempted to rob him. Now, both of

527
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:15.079
<v Speaker 1>the individuals had injuries on them, and with conflicting accounts

528
00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:18.440
<v Speaker 1>and little physical evidence tying the story together, police released

529
00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:24.319
<v Speaker 1>both of them and no long term investigation followed up either. Again,

530
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:27.039
<v Speaker 1>this is bullshit. You have someone with a history of

531
00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:30.119
<v Speaker 1>sexual violence and she is saying that he tried to

532
00:29:30.279 --> 00:29:34.079
<v Speaker 1>rape me. Something else needs to be fucking done here.

533
00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:38.599
<v Speaker 1>Should that alone should be grounds for entering his house

534
00:29:38.680 --> 00:29:42.559
<v Speaker 1>if you need a reason. Absolutely, But nothing happened of it.

535
00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:45.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Okay, Yeah, this isn't good at all.

536
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:50.279
<v Speaker 1>There were other survivors in this story too, women who

537
00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:54.000
<v Speaker 1>escaped or left the house alive but never reported what happened.

538
00:29:54.400 --> 00:29:58.480
<v Speaker 1>Some feared retaliation, others were struggling with addiction or homelessness

539
00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:01.440
<v Speaker 1>and didn't believe they would be taken seriously. And many

540
00:30:01.480 --> 00:30:06.599
<v Speaker 1>of these crimes simply went unreported or unresolved. Each incident

541
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:11.680
<v Speaker 1>viewed alone seems small, but together they formed a pattern.

542
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:16.200
<v Speaker 1>Because nothing was getting to police. It was just going unnoticed.

543
00:30:16.359 --> 00:30:19.279
<v Speaker 1>And I don't want to downplay each incident by saying

544
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:22.720
<v Speaker 1>each incident seems small. What I'm trying to say is

545
00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:26.160
<v Speaker 1>each incident is one on its own one. You can

546
00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:30.160
<v Speaker 1>maybe explain away how police already had done you know what,

547
00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:33.319
<v Speaker 1>two different accounts of these individuals. Maybe it's just a

548
00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:37.599
<v Speaker 1>domestic dispute that's that, you know what, can't really get

549
00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:38.240
<v Speaker 1>too involved.

550
00:30:38.920 --> 00:30:40.920
<v Speaker 2>But when you look at it as a whole, it's

551
00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:42.920
<v Speaker 2>a frickin' problem exactly.

552
00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:46.960
<v Speaker 1>By two thousand and nine, the house on Imperial Avenue

553
00:30:46.960 --> 00:30:50.960
<v Speaker 1>had developed a reputation. Some people avoided it, others still

554
00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:53.799
<v Speaker 1>stop by, drawn in by the drugs alcohol in the

555
00:30:53.839 --> 00:30:57.599
<v Speaker 1>social atmosphere, Anthony projected to many, he still remained that

556
00:30:57.680 --> 00:31:00.400
<v Speaker 1>friendly neighbor, someone who sat in his steps, talked to

557
00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:04.039
<v Speaker 1>passers by, and blended into daily life. But the investigation

558
00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:07.599
<v Speaker 1>that would finally expose what was happening would not come

559
00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:10.559
<v Speaker 1>from a routine check or a long running police theory.

560
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:14.279
<v Speaker 1>It would come from another survivor and the incident that

561
00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:17.200
<v Speaker 1>finally forced authorities to look inside the house for the

562
00:31:17.240 --> 00:31:20.799
<v Speaker 1>first time. One evening in the fall of two thousand

563
00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:25.079
<v Speaker 1>and nine, a woman named Latundra Billips went to Anthony's house.

564
00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:28.000
<v Speaker 1>She knew him casually, and she later said that they

565
00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:31.200
<v Speaker 1>spent time drinking and smoking crack together, and at one point,

566
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:33.920
<v Speaker 1>according to her account, while they were doing so, his

567
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:38.759
<v Speaker 1>demeanor changed quickly without warning. He suddenly became violent, hitting

568
00:31:38.839 --> 00:31:42.920
<v Speaker 1>her and sexually assaulting her. She said that he strangled

569
00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:45.759
<v Speaker 1>her with an extension court until she lost consciousness and

570
00:31:45.799 --> 00:31:48.960
<v Speaker 1>she was convinced that she was going to die, But

571
00:31:49.039 --> 00:31:52.880
<v Speaker 1>when she woke up hours later, she realized she had

572
00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:57.240
<v Speaker 1>somehow survived and that she was still alive now. The

573
00:31:57.279 --> 00:32:01.000
<v Speaker 1>assault had left her badly injured, though she did make

574
00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:03.640
<v Speaker 1>it out, and she went to the hospital the following morning,

575
00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:07.039
<v Speaker 1>where a sexual assault nurse examiner performed a rape kit

576
00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:11.759
<v Speaker 1>and she spoke with police. She expected investigators to follow

577
00:32:11.799 --> 00:32:18.279
<v Speaker 1>up quickly, but days passed, then weeks. According to later reportings,

578
00:32:18.519 --> 00:32:22.400
<v Speaker 1>officers said they struggled to locate her, and because of

579
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:25.279
<v Speaker 1>her unstable lifestyle and addiction, it was difficult to communicate

580
00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:29.240
<v Speaker 1>and attempts to meet up with her were missed. It

581
00:32:29.319 --> 00:32:32.839
<v Speaker 1>wasn't until October twenty seventh, more than a month after

582
00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:36.599
<v Speaker 1>the attack, that her official report was finally taken and

583
00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:40.000
<v Speaker 1>detectives moved forward with it. It took some time, but

584
00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:45.480
<v Speaker 1>they were taking it seriously. Two days later, police obtained

585
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:50.160
<v Speaker 1>an arrest warrant for Anthony Sowell, but just before police

586
00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:55.720
<v Speaker 1>officers got that warrant, someone else found themselves in Anthony's path.

587
00:32:57.440 --> 00:33:00.880
<v Speaker 1>On October twentieth, a woman named Sean Morris went to

588
00:33:00.920 --> 00:33:04.480
<v Speaker 1>Anthony's home. She later said the evening started casually with

589
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:07.160
<v Speaker 1>drinks and conversation, and the next morning, when she tried

590
00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:11.400
<v Speaker 1>to leave well, Anthony attacked her. He viciously beat and

591
00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:14.519
<v Speaker 1>sexually assaulted her, then began locking the doors and the

592
00:33:14.519 --> 00:33:19.799
<v Speaker 1>windows all throughout the house. In that moment, she realized

593
00:33:19.799 --> 00:33:22.960
<v Speaker 1>she wasn't going to be allowed to leave, so in

594
00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:26.799
<v Speaker 1>a desperate attempt to survive, she saw an opening and

595
00:33:26.839 --> 00:33:29.359
<v Speaker 1>she jumped from a window on the upper floor of

596
00:33:29.359 --> 00:33:32.559
<v Speaker 1>the house, falling roughly thirty feet to the ground below.

597
00:33:33.200 --> 00:33:35.640
<v Speaker 2>Good for her, Like, you have to be pretty dang

598
00:33:35.720 --> 00:33:38.160
<v Speaker 2>scared and desperate to jump out of a window right

599
00:33:38.200 --> 00:33:42.480
<v Speaker 2>to get away from the situation that you're in pure survival, Yeah, Like,

600
00:33:42.519 --> 00:33:45.359
<v Speaker 2>because that's gonna that's probably most likely going to injure you,

601
00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:48.319
<v Speaker 2>but like it's going to save your freaking life too.

602
00:33:48.440 --> 00:33:49.160
<v Speaker 1>So yep.

603
00:33:50.279 --> 00:33:50.359
<v Speaker 2>So.

604
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:53.200
<v Speaker 1>Witnesses passing by called nine one one after seeing her

605
00:33:53.240 --> 00:33:56.279
<v Speaker 1>injured on the ground. She had suffered multiple broken bones

606
00:33:56.319 --> 00:34:01.200
<v Speaker 1>and serious trauma, and when paramedics arrived, Anthony was also there,

607
00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:05.000
<v Speaker 1>who was naked by the way for I don't know why,

608
00:34:05.319 --> 00:34:07.799
<v Speaker 1>but he reportedly tried to convince them that she was

609
00:34:07.799 --> 00:34:11.280
<v Speaker 1>his wife and that she had fallen accidentally while they

610
00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:12.239
<v Speaker 1>were having sex.

611
00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:14.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay, this game is over, buddy, Like you need to

612
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:16.880
<v Speaker 2>just shut the fuck up, and like you're caught.

613
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:21.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Sean was terrified and severely injured, and she initially

614
00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:25.280
<v Speaker 1>told police a version of events that kind of protected Anthony,

615
00:34:25.719 --> 00:34:28.239
<v Speaker 1>but later she told them that she did this because

616
00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:31.079
<v Speaker 1>even with police there, she still feared that Anthony would

617
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:34.760
<v Speaker 1>kill her even if she told the truth. Now, Anthony

618
00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:39.840
<v Speaker 1>wasn't arrested because of this incident, but it certainly helped

619
00:34:39.880 --> 00:34:44.800
<v Speaker 1>put the focus on him for investigators. When Letundra Billips

620
00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:48.280
<v Speaker 1>was assaulted, that that's when the focus was on him.

621
00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:52.360
<v Speaker 1>So they were already looking at him when this incident happened,

622
00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:55.480
<v Speaker 1>and the plan was straightforward to execute the search warrant,

623
00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:58.360
<v Speaker 1>arrest Anthony, and search the home for evidence related to

624
00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:01.639
<v Speaker 1>the assault, including the cl clothing an extension cord Latundra

625
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:04.880
<v Speaker 1>described being used to choker so on the evening of

626
00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:08.840
<v Speaker 1>October twenty ninth, two thousand and nine, two days after

627
00:35:08.920 --> 00:35:13.159
<v Speaker 1>Latundra's assault incident, and nine days after Sean Morris's assault incident,

628
00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:16.719
<v Speaker 1>police officers arrived at one two to two five Imperial

629
00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:21.639
<v Speaker 1>Avenue expecting to make a straightforward arrest. The plan was

630
00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:24.599
<v Speaker 1>for a SWAT team to enter first, secure the house,

631
00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:28.239
<v Speaker 1>and arrest Anthony if he was inside. Detectives would follow

632
00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:31.360
<v Speaker 1>behind and search for evidence connected to the assault, and

633
00:35:31.559 --> 00:35:36.239
<v Speaker 1>just before seven pm officers moved in. The house was

634
00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:39.960
<v Speaker 1>a three story structure divided by two apartments, Anthony living

635
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:43.239
<v Speaker 1>in the upstairs unit, which occupied the second and third floors.

636
00:35:44.199 --> 00:35:47.920
<v Speaker 1>As officers entered, bags were piled through the rooms, Dirty

637
00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:51.280
<v Speaker 1>clothes covered the floors, Buckets were used as makeshift toilets

638
00:35:51.320 --> 00:35:54.000
<v Speaker 1>that sat in the corner, despite a functioning bathroom being

639
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:57.719
<v Speaker 1>present in the house, and there was a smell that

640
00:35:57.840 --> 00:36:02.840
<v Speaker 1>went all throughout. Several officers later described it as overwhelming,

641
00:36:03.079 --> 00:36:06.639
<v Speaker 1>a heavy, rotting odor that grew stronger the higher they

642
00:36:06.679 --> 00:36:10.360
<v Speaker 1>climbed in the home. Even seasoned officers struggled to work

643
00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:16.559
<v Speaker 1>through it. They continued clearing rooms methodically, moving floor by floor,

644
00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:21.360
<v Speaker 1>room by room, calling out as they went, but Anthony

645
00:36:22.039 --> 00:36:26.840
<v Speaker 1>wasn't there. When officers reached the top floor, they found

646
00:36:26.840 --> 00:36:30.559
<v Speaker 1>a small room sitting with its windows covered in black

647
00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:34.320
<v Speaker 1>plastic blocking most of the light come from coming inside,

648
00:36:34.519 --> 00:36:38.320
<v Speaker 1>and the door it was locked. Believing Anthony might be

649
00:36:38.360 --> 00:36:41.679
<v Speaker 1>hiding inside this room, officers forced it open and entered

650
00:36:41.679 --> 00:36:45.440
<v Speaker 1>with weapons drawn, and at first they only saw shadows,

651
00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:48.639
<v Speaker 1>but as their eyes adjusted to the dark light and

652
00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:53.159
<v Speaker 1>flashlights swept the room, the shapes on the floor came

653
00:36:53.199 --> 00:36:58.280
<v Speaker 1>into focus. There were two bodies laying side by side,

654
00:36:58.440 --> 00:37:01.639
<v Speaker 1>partially covered in plastic and surrounded by beer cans and

655
00:37:01.719 --> 00:37:08.320
<v Speaker 1>cigarette butts. Both were badly decomposed. Officers immediately backed out

656
00:37:08.360 --> 00:37:10.679
<v Speaker 1>of the room, realizing they were no longer dealing with

657
00:37:10.719 --> 00:37:13.880
<v Speaker 1>a simple sexual assault investigation, that this house was now

658
00:37:14.119 --> 00:37:19.400
<v Speaker 1>a homicide scene. As teams began securing the area, another

659
00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:24.440
<v Speaker 1>group searched the basement and they radioed upstairs. Beneath a

660
00:37:24.480 --> 00:37:27.119
<v Speaker 1>set of stairs they had found what looked like a

661
00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:31.440
<v Speaker 1>freshly disturbed patch of dirt and a black plastic protruding

662
00:37:31.480 --> 00:37:35.400
<v Speaker 1>from it. It was clear they were going to be

663
00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:40.719
<v Speaker 1>finding multiple bodies here. Homicide detectives and crime scene technicians

664
00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:43.719
<v Speaker 1>were soon called into the home, and they arrived shortly

665
00:37:43.760 --> 00:37:47.320
<v Speaker 1>after eight pm. The house was sealed off with crime

666
00:37:47.320 --> 00:37:52.599
<v Speaker 1>scene tape as investigators began documenting every inch. The county

667
00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:55.280
<v Speaker 1>coroner's office was also called in, but the condition of

668
00:37:55.280 --> 00:38:01.480
<v Speaker 1>the bodies made immediate identification impossible. Side neighbors gathered behind

669
00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:05.480
<v Speaker 1>police lines, watching as stretchers were carried out with body bags,

670
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:09.039
<v Speaker 1>and rumors spread quickly, and many assumed that one of

671
00:38:09.079 --> 00:38:12.840
<v Speaker 1>the dead was Anthony himself, but the reality, of course,

672
00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:15.760
<v Speaker 1>was he was still missing and these were his victims.

673
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:20.400
<v Speaker 1>Inside the basement, investigators carefully removed layers of dirt beneath

674
00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:25.159
<v Speaker 1>the stairs. They uncovered another body, wrapped bound and partially buried.

675
00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:29.679
<v Speaker 1>The next morning, investigators returned with additional resources, including FBI

676
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:34.880
<v Speaker 1>kadaver dogs. The dogs immediately alerted investigators to areas that

677
00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:39.119
<v Speaker 1>hadn't yet been fully examined. On the third floor, officers

678
00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:43.039
<v Speaker 1>discovered a crawl space behind patched drywall. Outside. The dogs

679
00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:45.920
<v Speaker 1>led investigators into the backyard and another body was found

680
00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:49.320
<v Speaker 1>buried in dirt and additional remains stuffed into garbage bags.

681
00:38:50.239 --> 00:38:53.119
<v Speaker 1>Freshly disturbed soil near the steps also caught their attention,

682
00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:57.079
<v Speaker 1>and one body was found, then another. Over the following

683
00:38:57.159 --> 00:39:01.559
<v Speaker 1>hours and days, investigators continued uncover remains buried in those

684
00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:05.280
<v Speaker 1>shallow graves inside the house. They also discovered a skull

685
00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:09.920
<v Speaker 1>wrapped in paper and placed inside a bucket. What had

686
00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:12.559
<v Speaker 1>started as a search for evidence in a sexual assault

687
00:39:12.639 --> 00:39:18.079
<v Speaker 1>case had now turned into something almost unimaginable. By the

688
00:39:18.119 --> 00:39:22.800
<v Speaker 1>time investigators finished searching the property, eleven women had been

689
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:25.880
<v Speaker 1>found dead in and around the home.

690
00:39:26.360 --> 00:39:32.079
<v Speaker 2>Oh this is just nasty, right, I A can't even

691
00:39:32.199 --> 00:39:37.199
<v Speaker 2>believe someone could like live in this type of situation,

692
00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:41.280
<v Speaker 2>and grant you have friends wanting to come over into

693
00:39:41.320 --> 00:39:45.960
<v Speaker 2>this to get new victims, and just like, I don't know,

694
00:39:46.119 --> 00:39:48.360
<v Speaker 2>just the audacity that he thinks that I mean, yeah,

695
00:39:48.400 --> 00:39:50.519
<v Speaker 2>he got I was going to say the audacity that

696
00:39:50.559 --> 00:39:52.719
<v Speaker 2>he got away with all this, but he did for

697
00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:54.199
<v Speaker 2>so long he did.

698
00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:57.199
<v Speaker 1>But as far as like inviting people over and thinking,

699
00:39:57.199 --> 00:39:59.360
<v Speaker 1>how would anyone want to come in, Well, you have

700
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:02.920
<v Speaker 1>to imagine, like these victims, the type of the stage

701
00:40:02.920 --> 00:40:05.119
<v Speaker 1>in their life they're in, how desperate they are to

702
00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:08.960
<v Speaker 1>get their next books, to get someone to listen to them,

703
00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:12.760
<v Speaker 1>to get a place to stay, basic human necessities.

704
00:40:13.480 --> 00:40:18.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like you just need your like your survival needs

705
00:40:18.400 --> 00:40:21.760
<v Speaker 2>met almost in a way. Yeah, and he's probably offering

706
00:40:21.800 --> 00:40:24.920
<v Speaker 2>like the drugs maybe for free or something. So that's

707
00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:25.639
<v Speaker 2>like quite a.

708
00:40:26.039 --> 00:40:30.599
<v Speaker 1>Incentive, definitely. Now, the scale of the crime shocked the city.

709
00:40:31.039 --> 00:40:34.119
<v Speaker 1>Police quickly realized that Anthony had likely fled before they

710
00:40:34.159 --> 00:40:37.320
<v Speaker 1>could arrive with his arrest warrant. This had already become

711
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:39.920
<v Speaker 1>one of the largest homicide scenes Cleveland had ever seen,

712
00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:43.039
<v Speaker 1>and now it was turning into an active manhunt officers.

713
00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:46.280
<v Speaker 1>They quickly released a description to the public in late

714
00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:49.719
<v Speaker 1>October twenty ninth in search of him. Anthony, at the

715
00:40:49.719 --> 00:40:53.079
<v Speaker 1>time was fifty years old, about six feet tall, thin,

716
00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:58.199
<v Speaker 1>usually wearing glasses, and known throughout Mount Pleasant neighborhoods as tone.

717
00:40:58.440 --> 00:41:01.480
<v Speaker 1>Police warned residents not to approach him and offered a

718
00:41:01.519 --> 00:41:06.639
<v Speaker 1>reward for any information leading to his arrest. Officers also

719
00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:10.960
<v Speaker 1>checked abandoned buildings, alleyways, scrap yards, and homes of relatives.

720
00:41:11.039 --> 00:41:14.440
<v Speaker 1>Patrol cars flooded the neighborhood while investigators worked around the

721
00:41:14.480 --> 00:41:17.800
<v Speaker 1>clock at this house, continuing to recover bodies and evidence

722
00:41:17.800 --> 00:41:21.639
<v Speaker 1>from inside and its property. Now, as the search was

723
00:41:21.679 --> 00:41:24.559
<v Speaker 1>going on, a woman who knew Anthony casually from the

724
00:41:24.559 --> 00:41:28.599
<v Speaker 1>neighborhood reportedly spotted him at his sister's home not far

725
00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:32.320
<v Speaker 1>from Imperial Avenue. She told him that police were swarming

726
00:41:32.320 --> 00:41:34.719
<v Speaker 1>his house and that bodies had been found inside, and

727
00:41:34.760 --> 00:41:38.280
<v Speaker 1>according to later reports, Anthony appeared agitated and said words

728
00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:40.760
<v Speaker 1>to the effect of quote, it's all going to come

729
00:41:40.760 --> 00:41:44.800
<v Speaker 1>out now, end quote. He briefly agreed to return with her,

730
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:48.159
<v Speaker 1>but changed his mind before just before reaching the house,

731
00:41:48.639 --> 00:41:53.440
<v Speaker 1>and he insisted to be taken back now. When police

732
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:56.639
<v Speaker 1>learned that he had been seen alive, though, the search intensified.

733
00:41:56.880 --> 00:41:59.559
<v Speaker 1>On October thirty one, two thousand and nine, two days

734
00:41:59.559 --> 00:42:03.960
<v Speaker 1>after the first bodies were discovered, officers found Anthony walking

735
00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:07.119
<v Speaker 1>along a street roughly a mile from his home, and

736
00:42:07.159 --> 00:42:10.079
<v Speaker 1>they quickly took him into custody without incident.

737
00:42:11.079 --> 00:42:13.119
<v Speaker 2>So he really didn't go far at all.

738
00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:16.320
<v Speaker 1>He didn't. It's almost like he wasn't even trying to hide. Honestly.

739
00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:18.599
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean at that point, I think, you know,

740
00:42:18.679 --> 00:42:19.760
<v Speaker 2>you're probably done.

741
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:22.519
<v Speaker 1>I think he just didn't care. He didn't care about

742
00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:25.599
<v Speaker 1>other people, he didn't care about being arrested. He just

743
00:42:26.239 --> 00:42:28.880
<v Speaker 1>didn't care. I just did what he wanted. He had

744
00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:32.440
<v Speaker 1>an air of complete arrogance and ignorance about him.

745
00:42:32.440 --> 00:42:34.440
<v Speaker 2>To me, just a nasty human being.

746
00:42:34.679 --> 00:42:37.039
<v Speaker 1>There you go, that's a good way of putting it. Now.

747
00:42:37.119 --> 00:42:41.559
<v Speaker 1>At the station, investigators began questioning Anthony. I mean, by then,

748
00:42:41.599 --> 00:42:44.519
<v Speaker 1>detectives already knew what they were dealing with, a serial killer,

749
00:42:44.840 --> 00:42:47.360
<v Speaker 1>so the questions were more along the lines of how

750
00:42:47.400 --> 00:42:49.679
<v Speaker 1>many victims were there, or how long the murders had

751
00:42:49.719 --> 00:42:53.159
<v Speaker 1>been happening, and whether Anthony was about to talk now.

752
00:42:53.159 --> 00:42:57.679
<v Speaker 1>Early in the interviews, Anthony appeared calm, almost conversational. I

753
00:42:57.719 --> 00:43:01.159
<v Speaker 1>mean investigators wanted it that way. They started rather light,

754
00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:03.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, easy going, trying to make him feel comfortable.

755
00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:07.360
<v Speaker 1>He answered basic questions about his background, his military service,

756
00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:10.679
<v Speaker 1>and his family. At times he even seemed relaxed and

757
00:43:10.840 --> 00:43:15.400
<v Speaker 1>detached from reality. But when the questioning turned towards the

758
00:43:15.400 --> 00:43:18.480
<v Speaker 1>bodies and things started to heat up, his responses became

759
00:43:18.559 --> 00:43:22.880
<v Speaker 1>vague and inconsistent. He denied clear intent, He offered suggestions

760
00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:27.719
<v Speaker 1>about confusion and claiming he didn't remember details. At other moments,

761
00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:31.639
<v Speaker 1>he admitted to choking women and then refused to explain

762
00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:36.239
<v Speaker 1>why now. Detectives then pressed him about the number of victims,

763
00:43:36.519 --> 00:43:39.760
<v Speaker 1>and he reportedly gave uncertain answers, at one point suggesting

764
00:43:39.760 --> 00:43:42.239
<v Speaker 1>there might be ten and then changing his response again.

765
00:43:43.400 --> 00:43:46.920
<v Speaker 1>Throughout all this, investigators quickly realized they could not rely

766
00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:49.920
<v Speaker 1>on him for a complete or accurate account of events,

767
00:43:50.440 --> 00:43:53.719
<v Speaker 1>so instead they began reconstructing the timeline through physical evidence

768
00:43:53.719 --> 00:43:55.159
<v Speaker 1>and missing persons reports.

769
00:43:55.480 --> 00:43:57.679
<v Speaker 2>I just have to say really quickly and know, you're

770
00:43:57.800 --> 00:44:01.039
<v Speaker 2>fucked up up if you can't remember how many people you've.

771
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:03.360
<v Speaker 1>Murdered, Well, it's not asy. Maybe it's not that he

772
00:44:03.400 --> 00:44:05.760
<v Speaker 1>can't remember or he's not wanting to talk about it.

773
00:44:06.199 --> 00:44:07.360
<v Speaker 1>There's which one.

774
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:10.320
<v Speaker 2>Isn't I guess, because well, yeah, when you think about it,

775
00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:14.679
<v Speaker 2>serial killers lots of times they do really recall most

776
00:44:14.719 --> 00:44:17.639
<v Speaker 2>of their victims because it's like living out a fantasy

777
00:44:17.719 --> 00:44:18.960
<v Speaker 2>or whatever the hell they're doing.

778
00:44:19.079 --> 00:44:21.519
<v Speaker 1>I don't think for him it's really living out of

779
00:44:21.559 --> 00:44:24.119
<v Speaker 1>fantasy though, as I mentioned, like, I think it's he

780
00:44:24.199 --> 00:44:27.559
<v Speaker 1>just doesn't fucking care well, an air of arrogance about him.

781
00:44:27.639 --> 00:44:29.760
<v Speaker 2>It could be more the sexual assault for him too,

782
00:44:29.840 --> 00:44:31.320
<v Speaker 2>and then he just like kills them to.

783
00:44:31.280 --> 00:44:34.719
<v Speaker 1>Cover up a dispatch like they're nothing. Yeah, right, But

784
00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:38.760
<v Speaker 1>either way, whether it's he does remember and is lying

785
00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:42.480
<v Speaker 1>or he doesn't remember, either way they're not going to get.

786
00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:45.360
<v Speaker 2>A clear story from him, and either way he's fucked up.

787
00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:49.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now, during the questioning too, Anthony did what many

788
00:44:49.679 --> 00:44:53.119
<v Speaker 1>murderers do. He sometimes tried to shift blame or minimalize

789
00:44:53.159 --> 00:44:56.800
<v Speaker 1>his responsibility. He spoke about anger and arguments about the

790
00:44:56.880 --> 00:44:59.880
<v Speaker 1>women who use drugs, but he never provided a Kohi

791
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:04.239
<v Speaker 1>explanation for any of the killings. For detectives, though the

792
00:45:04.280 --> 00:45:07.559
<v Speaker 1>interviews served a different purpose than Anthony would have expected.

793
00:45:08.079 --> 00:45:11.079
<v Speaker 1>They weren't looking for a dramatic confession. The evidence side

794
00:45:11.119 --> 00:45:14.440
<v Speaker 1>the house already spoke for itself. Their goal was to

795
00:45:14.599 --> 00:45:17.679
<v Speaker 1>understand the sequence of events when the murder started, how

796
00:45:17.679 --> 00:45:19.599
<v Speaker 1>many bodies there were, how they ended up in different

797
00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:21.960
<v Speaker 1>parts of the house, whether there were more victims beyond

798
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:26.239
<v Speaker 1>the eleven already discovered. But police had also answered had

799
00:45:26.239 --> 00:45:29.199
<v Speaker 1>to find the answer for who these victims were. Because

800
00:45:29.199 --> 00:45:31.920
<v Speaker 1>of the conditions of many of the remains, identification was

801
00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:35.800
<v Speaker 1>almost impossible off the bat and very slow and difficult afterwards.

802
00:45:36.559 --> 00:45:40.000
<v Speaker 1>They relied heavily on DNA testing, dental records, and personal

803
00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:43.320
<v Speaker 1>items recovered at the scene. At the same time, Cleveland

804
00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:46.400
<v Speaker 1>police established a command center and asked family with missing

805
00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:50.320
<v Speaker 1>loved ones to come forward. For many families, that request

806
00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:56.079
<v Speaker 1>confirmed their worst fears. Relatives arrived carrying photographs, clothing, personal

807
00:45:56.119 --> 00:45:59.760
<v Speaker 1>items that might help with identification. Some had been searching

808
00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:03.199
<v Speaker 1>for you years. Others had filed missing persons reports, only

809
00:46:03.239 --> 00:46:07.760
<v Speaker 1>to feel dismissed or ignored. One by one, the names

810
00:46:07.800 --> 00:46:13.159
<v Speaker 1>began to emerge. The first identified was Tanya Carmichael, a

811
00:46:13.159 --> 00:46:15.599
<v Speaker 1>fifty year old fifty three year old mother who had

812
00:46:15.639 --> 00:46:18.800
<v Speaker 1>disappeared in late two thousand and eight. Soon after, came

813
00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:21.480
<v Speaker 1>to Nasha Culver, a thirty three year old mother remembered

814
00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:25.079
<v Speaker 1>for her kindness and generosity, and then Talaka Forston, a

815
00:46:25.119 --> 00:46:27.440
<v Speaker 1>thirty one year old mother of three who had been

816
00:46:27.440 --> 00:46:31.199
<v Speaker 1>trying to rebuild her life before she vanished. Investigators then

817
00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:34.480
<v Speaker 1>later identified Crystal Dozier, a thirty eight year old mother

818
00:46:34.519 --> 00:46:37.440
<v Speaker 1>of seven and one of the earliest victims missing since

819
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:40.679
<v Speaker 1>May of two thousand and seven. Michelle Mason, forty five,

820
00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:43.440
<v Speaker 1>was next. She had spent time away from Cleveland trying

821
00:46:43.480 --> 00:46:46.199
<v Speaker 1>to turn her life around and begun rebuilding stability before

822
00:46:46.199 --> 00:46:50.199
<v Speaker 1>disappearing in two thousand and eight. As DNA testing continued,

823
00:46:50.480 --> 00:46:54.360
<v Speaker 1>more and more names were connected and confirmed. Kim Yvette Smith,

824
00:46:54.800 --> 00:46:57.800
<v Speaker 1>forty four, who was a kind caregiver for her disabled father.

825
00:46:58.360 --> 00:47:01.880
<v Speaker 1>Nancy Cobbs forty five, a grandmother who tried to reconnect

826
00:47:01.880 --> 00:47:06.239
<v Speaker 1>with family after struggling with addiction. Amelda or Amy Hunter

827
00:47:06.559 --> 00:47:09.519
<v Speaker 1>forty seven was a beautician and an avid reader, remembered

828
00:47:09.559 --> 00:47:13.159
<v Speaker 1>as a fighter. Denise Webb forty eight described by relatives

829
00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:17.199
<v Speaker 1>as a family jokester who kept everyone laughing despite her struggles.

830
00:47:17.800 --> 00:47:20.960
<v Speaker 1>One of the most difficult identifications involved Leshon de Long,

831
00:47:21.400 --> 00:47:25.800
<v Speaker 1>only twenty five years old, the youngest victim. Authorities recovered

832
00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:28.719
<v Speaker 1>only her skull, which had been placed in a bucket

833
00:47:28.760 --> 00:47:32.480
<v Speaker 1>in the basement for her family. There would be no

834
00:47:32.599 --> 00:47:37.320
<v Speaker 1>complete body to bury. The final victim identified was Diane Turner,

835
00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:40.079
<v Speaker 1>a mother of six who had been battling addiction for

836
00:47:40.199 --> 00:47:43.280
<v Speaker 1>years and had recently been trying to stay sober. Her

837
00:47:43.280 --> 00:47:46.880
<v Speaker 1>remains were among the last confirmed, partially because of fractured

838
00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:51.559
<v Speaker 1>family connections and complications with identification process, but by the

839
00:47:51.599 --> 00:47:54.599
<v Speaker 1>time they were all identified, there were eleven women in

840
00:47:54.639 --> 00:47:57.920
<v Speaker 1>total who were named, and a clearer picture of the

841
00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:03.519
<v Speaker 1>case emerged. All of the victims were black women, most

842
00:48:03.519 --> 00:48:08.199
<v Speaker 1>were mothers. Many struggled with addictions or unstable housing. Several

843
00:48:08.239 --> 00:48:11.400
<v Speaker 1>had criminal records tied to survival crimes like drug possession

844
00:48:11.480 --> 00:48:14.519
<v Speaker 1>or sex work. Some had been reported missing, but others

845
00:48:14.559 --> 00:48:17.360
<v Speaker 1>had not either because families assumed they would return or

846
00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:21.960
<v Speaker 1>because relationships become strained over time. For investigators, identifying the

847
00:48:22.039 --> 00:48:25.679
<v Speaker 1>victims also meant revisiting old missing persons reports and seeing

848
00:48:25.760 --> 00:48:29.960
<v Speaker 1>the pattern that had been missing. Families spoke about their

849
00:48:30.039 --> 00:48:33.719
<v Speaker 1>frustrations openly. Some said they'd been going to police and

850
00:48:33.960 --> 00:48:35.800
<v Speaker 1>had only been told that their loved ones would just

851
00:48:35.800 --> 00:48:38.920
<v Speaker 1>come back whenever they're ready. Others said that they felt

852
00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:41.880
<v Speaker 1>that their cases never received serious attention because of the

853
00:48:41.880 --> 00:48:45.440
<v Speaker 1>addiction or lifestyle, which is a harsh reality still felt

854
00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:49.719
<v Speaker 1>by many in society today. Now, after months of investigation,

855
00:48:50.320 --> 00:48:54.440
<v Speaker 1>evidence processing, and victim identification, prosecutors began preparing for one

856
00:48:54.440 --> 00:48:59.119
<v Speaker 1>of the largest murder cases in Cleveland's history. Anthony Sewell

857
00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:04.280
<v Speaker 1>faced an overwhelming list of charges. Prosecutors filed eleven counts

858
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:09.159
<v Speaker 1>of aggravated murder, along with dozens of additional charges including rape, kidnapping,

859
00:49:09.159 --> 00:49:13.199
<v Speaker 1>abuses of corpse, and tampering with evidence. The sheer volume

860
00:49:13.239 --> 00:49:17.440
<v Speaker 1>of evidence, forensic reports, photographs, DNA results, witness testimony, and

861
00:49:17.480 --> 00:49:20.719
<v Speaker 1>surveillance footage even meant that the case would take a

862
00:49:20.800 --> 00:49:24.599
<v Speaker 1>long time to reach trial. Originally scheduled to begin in

863
00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:28.119
<v Speaker 1>twenty ten, the trial was delayed multiple times as both

864
00:49:28.239 --> 00:49:31.679
<v Speaker 1>sides prepared, and when the trial finally began in June

865
00:49:31.719 --> 00:49:35.400
<v Speaker 1>of twenty eleven, the focus was clear, proving that the

866
00:49:35.440 --> 00:49:38.639
<v Speaker 1>deaths of the eleven women were deliberate acts of murder

867
00:49:38.719 --> 00:49:41.559
<v Speaker 1>carried out by Anthony. The man who lived at one

868
00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:46.400
<v Speaker 1>two two five Imperial Avenue now Anthony himself initially entered

869
00:49:46.400 --> 00:49:49.719
<v Speaker 1>a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity, but

870
00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:53.840
<v Speaker 1>later withdrew that claim, changing his plea to simply not guilty.

871
00:49:54.800 --> 00:49:57.760
<v Speaker 1>Jurors were shown photographs from inside the home and heard

872
00:49:57.760 --> 00:50:00.599
<v Speaker 1>testimony from investigators who described what they had had encountered

873
00:50:00.599 --> 00:50:02.360
<v Speaker 1>when they entered the home as well. In October of

874
00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:05.840
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and nine, survivors who had escaped Anthony's attacks

875
00:50:05.840 --> 00:50:10.079
<v Speaker 1>also testified, explaining how he lured women inside with offers

876
00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:13.639
<v Speaker 1>of drugs or alcohol or you know, places to stay,

877
00:50:13.719 --> 00:50:17.239
<v Speaker 1>before then becoming violent. One of the most powerful moments

878
00:50:17.280 --> 00:50:19.639
<v Speaker 1>of the trial came when jurors were taken on a

879
00:50:19.679 --> 00:50:21.599
<v Speaker 1>walk through of the house itself.

880
00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:23.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh, that seems abnormal.

881
00:50:23.920 --> 00:50:26.480
<v Speaker 1>Though it was cleaned up, the crime scene was cleaned

882
00:50:26.480 --> 00:50:28.920
<v Speaker 1>by men, it was at least given to show the

883
00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:33.320
<v Speaker 1>space in which this all occurred Okay. Medical examiners testified

884
00:50:33.320 --> 00:50:35.760
<v Speaker 1>that most of the victims had been killed by strangulation.

885
00:50:36.079 --> 00:50:39.719
<v Speaker 1>They showed signs of ligatures or restraints, but because of

886
00:50:39.760 --> 00:50:44.000
<v Speaker 1>the decomposition, exact causes of death could not always be determined,

887
00:50:44.039 --> 00:50:48.559
<v Speaker 1>but the pattern across the victims was clear. Prosecutors argued

888
00:50:48.639 --> 00:50:51.519
<v Speaker 1>that the evidence left little room for doubt, and on

889
00:50:51.639 --> 00:50:55.800
<v Speaker 1>July twenty second, twenty eleven, after deliberation, the jury returned

890
00:50:55.800 --> 00:51:00.599
<v Speaker 1>with its verdict. Anthony Sowell was found guilty and was

891
00:51:00.639 --> 00:51:05.599
<v Speaker 1>convicted on eighty two of eighty three laid charges, including

892
00:51:05.719 --> 00:51:11.760
<v Speaker 1>all eleven counts of aggravated murder. On August twelfth, twenty eleven,

893
00:51:12.320 --> 00:51:15.639
<v Speaker 1>the judge formerly sentenced Anthony to death, placing him on

894
00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:20.000
<v Speaker 1>Ohio's death row. The verdict closed the legal side of

895
00:51:20.039 --> 00:51:22.760
<v Speaker 1>the case, but it didn't end the question surrounding what

896
00:51:22.800 --> 00:51:26.239
<v Speaker 1>had happened on Imperial Avenue. In the months and the

897
00:51:26.320 --> 00:51:30.000
<v Speaker 1>years that followed, attention turned towards the broader failures that

898
00:51:30.079 --> 00:51:33.679
<v Speaker 1>allowed the murders to continue for so long. Families of

899
00:51:33.719 --> 00:51:37.440
<v Speaker 1>the victims, community members, journalists, and advocates began asking how

900
00:51:37.719 --> 00:51:41.639
<v Speaker 1>eleven different women could disappear from the same neighborhood without

901
00:51:41.679 --> 00:51:46.000
<v Speaker 1>authorities connecting the pattern sooner. Many relatives had said that

902
00:51:46.039 --> 00:51:48.880
<v Speaker 1>they tried to report their loved ones missing and felt dismissed.

903
00:51:49.079 --> 00:51:51.039
<v Speaker 1>Some were told the women would come back when they

904
00:51:51.079 --> 00:51:53.719
<v Speaker 1>were ready, and others said that their cases never gained

905
00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:58.719
<v Speaker 1>traction because addiction and instability made disappearances seem less. Urgent

906
00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:05.400
<v Speaker 1>investigative reporting highlighted repeated warning signs that in hindsight, appeared

907
00:52:05.400 --> 00:52:09.239
<v Speaker 1>impossible to ignore. Neighbors had complained for months, even years,

908
00:52:09.239 --> 00:52:12.920
<v Speaker 1>about a foul odour near the house. Survivors had reported assaults.

909
00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:16.800
<v Speaker 1>Anthony himself was a registered sex offender Tier three, the

910
00:52:16.920 --> 00:52:21.119
<v Speaker 1>highest level, who was checked in regular with authorities. The

911
00:52:21.199 --> 00:52:25.519
<v Speaker 1>case became a painful example of how vulnerable communities can

912
00:52:25.559 --> 00:52:30.719
<v Speaker 1>fall through cracks. Now after the trial, city leaders decided

913
00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:33.440
<v Speaker 1>that the building where this all took place should not

914
00:52:33.519 --> 00:52:38.039
<v Speaker 1>remain standing, so in December of twenty eleven, demolition crews

915
00:52:38.079 --> 00:52:41.840
<v Speaker 1>tore down one two two five Imperial Avenue. The structure

916
00:52:41.880 --> 00:52:45.119
<v Speaker 1>that had once hidden so much horror was reduced to rubble.

917
00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:48.960
<v Speaker 1>Plans were soon developed for a memorial on the site,

918
00:52:49.119 --> 00:52:52.920
<v Speaker 1>and in twenty twenty one, the Garden of eleven Angels,

919
00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:57.239
<v Speaker 1>as it's called, was created to honor the victims. The

920
00:52:57.320 --> 00:53:00.199
<v Speaker 1>space was designed as a place of reflection, not for

921
00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:02.760
<v Speaker 1>the killer, but for the women of those lives who

922
00:53:02.760 --> 00:53:07.599
<v Speaker 1>had been taken. Meanwhile, Anthony's legal appeals began, but courts

923
00:53:07.639 --> 00:53:10.840
<v Speaker 1>repeatedly rejected any of them. He was housed on death

924
00:53:10.920 --> 00:53:15.840
<v Speaker 1>row in Chilikoth Correction Institution before being transferred to Franklin

925
00:53:15.920 --> 00:53:20.960
<v Speaker 1>Medical Center as his health declined. Then, on February eighth,

926
00:53:21.320 --> 00:53:24.599
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty one, Anthony Swell died in prison from a

927
00:53:24.679 --> 00:53:28.719
<v Speaker 1>terminal illness at the age of sixty one. His execution

928
00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:32.000
<v Speaker 1>would never be carried out, and his story ends there.

929
00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:38.079
<v Speaker 1>But the story that really matters, well, it doesn't. It

930
00:53:38.159 --> 00:53:40.960
<v Speaker 1>lives in the voices of survivors who escaped, in the

931
00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:44.800
<v Speaker 1>families who refused to stop searching, in the memories of

932
00:53:44.840 --> 00:53:48.400
<v Speaker 1>the victims, and in the woman who made the desperate,

933
00:53:48.639 --> 00:53:51.760
<v Speaker 1>difficult choice to jump from a window rather than stay

934
00:53:51.800 --> 00:53:56.239
<v Speaker 1>inside one more second. That moment, one person fighting to survive,

935
00:53:56.519 --> 00:53:59.719
<v Speaker 1>helped stop the killings, and it forced the world to

936
00:53:59.719 --> 00:54:03.079
<v Speaker 1>fire only look at what been hidden in plain sight

937
00:54:03.239 --> 00:54:08.400
<v Speaker 1>the entire time. And that's the story of the Cleveland Strangler.

938
00:54:10.400 --> 00:54:15.119
<v Speaker 2>Shit, gosh that one. Okay, it reminds me a lot

939
00:54:15.159 --> 00:54:20.400
<v Speaker 2>of the pict in one in a sense that we've covered.

940
00:54:20.199 --> 00:54:22.679
<v Speaker 1>Right, how he targets those who are living in like

941
00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:26.119
<v Speaker 1>the margins of society, or sex workers or people who

942
00:54:26.199 --> 00:54:28.800
<v Speaker 1>are having substance issues things like that. Yeah.

943
00:54:28.960 --> 00:54:32.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because to find yourself in that kind of situation

944
00:54:32.480 --> 00:54:35.639
<v Speaker 2>right as a human is like, it's really it would

945
00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:38.599
<v Speaker 2>like I don't I can't say for sure, but from

946
00:54:38.639 --> 00:54:42.119
<v Speaker 2>my like witnessing and stuff, it's very hard to get

947
00:54:42.119 --> 00:54:44.679
<v Speaker 2>out of that. And then you maybe have someone that

948
00:54:44.719 --> 00:54:48.679
<v Speaker 2>you think is nice and I mean, he wasn't going

949
00:54:48.719 --> 00:54:51.119
<v Speaker 2>about trying to help them because he was offering them

950
00:54:51.199 --> 00:54:54.760
<v Speaker 2>these substances and stuff. But I don't know, like you

951
00:54:54.800 --> 00:54:56.760
<v Speaker 2>go about maybe trying to trust someone and then it

952
00:54:56.920 --> 00:55:00.559
<v Speaker 2>just like completely backfires, and then people don't even really

953
00:55:00.559 --> 00:55:03.639
<v Speaker 2>pay attention to you missing because oh, like she's on

954
00:55:03.719 --> 00:55:06.159
<v Speaker 2>a bender or whatever and she'll be back. Like it's

955
00:55:06.199 --> 00:55:09.639
<v Speaker 2>just it, It just fucking tugs at your heart.

956
00:55:09.400 --> 00:55:11.519
<v Speaker 1>Strings, it does. And then not to mention, you know what,

957
00:55:11.599 --> 00:55:14.199
<v Speaker 1>the difficulty trusting police and the police saying oh yeah,

958
00:55:14.280 --> 00:55:16.800
<v Speaker 1>she'll like you say, just be back. Yeah, So it's like, Okay,

959
00:55:16.840 --> 00:55:19.840
<v Speaker 1>this person is actually missing, and they never go and

960
00:55:19.880 --> 00:55:22.280
<v Speaker 1>look for these people anyways because of these excuses. So

961
00:55:22.280 --> 00:55:25.760
<v Speaker 1>how can you trust them going forward with reporting your family?

962
00:55:25.800 --> 00:55:27.880
<v Speaker 1>They're not doing anything anyways. You might as well take

963
00:55:27.880 --> 00:55:30.039
<v Speaker 1>it into your own hands. Not only are you taking

964
00:55:30.079 --> 00:55:32.719
<v Speaker 1>it into your own hands and not creating a history

965
00:55:32.920 --> 00:55:35.480
<v Speaker 1>of looking for this person, but now you're putting yourself

966
00:55:35.519 --> 00:55:36.599
<v Speaker 1>in potential danger too.

967
00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:37.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

968
00:55:37.920 --> 00:55:42.000
<v Speaker 1>So's it's one of those situations where, yeah, like you say,

969
00:55:42.039 --> 00:55:44.880
<v Speaker 1>it tugs at your heartstrings because it should not play

970
00:55:44.920 --> 00:55:46.800
<v Speaker 1>out this way, but it does well.

971
00:55:46.840 --> 00:55:49.280
<v Speaker 2>And I for few of them, you said, you know,

972
00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:52.079
<v Speaker 2>like their families said that they were kind of, you know,

973
00:55:52.760 --> 00:55:56.400
<v Speaker 2>going along the path of potentially being good.

974
00:55:56.199 --> 00:55:59.159
<v Speaker 1>One day, right on their life thread and stuff.

975
00:55:58.840 --> 00:56:03.480
<v Speaker 2>And they make one mistake here and they're just gone.

976
00:56:03.639 --> 00:56:05.519
<v Speaker 2>Someone takes advantage of that and they're gone.

977
00:56:05.639 --> 00:56:09.039
<v Speaker 1>Well, and that one mistake could be trusting this individual, Yeah, exactly.

978
00:56:09.159 --> 00:56:11.559
<v Speaker 1>So maybe they didn't even enter the house under the

979
00:56:11.559 --> 00:56:15.159
<v Speaker 1>pretense of intoxication, drugs, alcohol, that sort of thing. Maybe

980
00:56:15.159 --> 00:56:17.199
<v Speaker 1>they just needed a place to stay to get away

981
00:56:17.239 --> 00:56:19.559
<v Speaker 1>from it all. Maybe they just needed someone who is

982
00:56:19.880 --> 00:56:22.039
<v Speaker 1>going to talk and be nice to them. Anthony was

983
00:56:22.079 --> 00:56:25.239
<v Speaker 1>known for that in the neighborhood. Maybe while they're staying there,

984
00:56:25.320 --> 00:56:28.480
<v Speaker 1>maybe that's when he reintroduced the drugs to them, and

985
00:56:28.519 --> 00:56:31.719
<v Speaker 1>then that's when he started taking advantage of them. Yeah,

986
00:56:31.760 --> 00:56:34.480
<v Speaker 1>he is, as I said earlier, one hell of a

987
00:56:34.519 --> 00:56:37.000
<v Speaker 1>fucking predator and a monster who.

988
00:56:36.800 --> 00:56:39.800
<v Speaker 2>Should never have been back out. No, And the thing

989
00:56:39.840 --> 00:56:42.239
<v Speaker 2>that really got me to was the one family they

990
00:56:42.360 --> 00:56:45.760
<v Speaker 2>just had the skull to bury. Oh I know, I

991
00:56:45.800 --> 00:56:47.840
<v Speaker 2>don't know. That one hit me hard because I couldn't

992
00:56:47.840 --> 00:56:51.360
<v Speaker 2>even imagine that kind of pain just you know, I mean,

993
00:56:51.360 --> 00:56:53.599
<v Speaker 2>you have a piece of them to bury, which I

994
00:56:53.639 --> 00:56:56.800
<v Speaker 2>guess is good, but you're like, where the fuck's the

995
00:56:56.800 --> 00:56:58.400
<v Speaker 2>rest of their body and stuff like, I don't know

996
00:56:58.480 --> 00:57:02.119
<v Speaker 2>that just knowing me, that would just I even have

997
00:57:02.159 --> 00:57:04.320
<v Speaker 2>tears in my eyes right now. That would destroy me. Yeah,

998
00:57:04.360 --> 00:57:05.199
<v Speaker 2>it would destroy me.

999
00:57:05.599 --> 00:57:09.679
<v Speaker 1>Now. I do understand there's logistical issues on the authorities side,

1000
00:57:10.320 --> 00:57:12.920
<v Speaker 1>trust me, I get it, but they still need to

1001
00:57:12.920 --> 00:57:16.639
<v Speaker 1>do more. The simple fact alone that he was a

1002
00:57:16.679 --> 00:57:19.440
<v Speaker 1>Tier three registered sex offender and they could not go

1003
00:57:19.519 --> 00:57:24.880
<v Speaker 1>into his premise while he's already having these documented accounts

1004
00:57:24.880 --> 00:57:27.360
<v Speaker 1>of potential abuse and rape and all this sort of

1005
00:57:27.360 --> 00:57:32.320
<v Speaker 1>stuff that is absurd to me. Yeah, missing persons reports,

1006
00:57:32.519 --> 00:57:35.159
<v Speaker 1>whether you whether the authorities take them seriously or not.

1007
00:57:35.400 --> 00:57:38.719
<v Speaker 1>If someone reports a person missing, that's a fucking missing

1008
00:57:38.719 --> 00:57:41.960
<v Speaker 1>person's report. If you say, okay, you know what, maybe

1009
00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:43.800
<v Speaker 1>they'll be back in a day or two. Maybe they'll

1010
00:57:43.840 --> 00:57:46.239
<v Speaker 1>be back in a week or two. Look at their history.

1011
00:57:46.440 --> 00:57:50.440
<v Speaker 1>How long have they been gone before? Maybe if their

1012
00:57:50.480 --> 00:57:53.239
<v Speaker 1>history is being gone for three or four days, document

1013
00:57:53.320 --> 00:57:56.119
<v Speaker 1>that missing person's report, check in with the family every

1014
00:57:56.159 --> 00:57:58.440
<v Speaker 1>other fucking day, and if they're still gone after a

1015
00:57:58.480 --> 00:58:00.679
<v Speaker 1>couple of days, maybe then start in best mitigating it.

1016
00:58:01.119 --> 00:58:03.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, we really have flawed systems, and we do.

1017
00:58:04.239 --> 00:58:08.079
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's hopeful that cases like this do help

1018
00:58:08.199 --> 00:58:10.800
<v Speaker 2>that those systems and make them better eventually, and I

1019
00:58:10.800 --> 00:58:13.679
<v Speaker 2>think they do, but I mean it always it takes

1020
00:58:13.719 --> 00:58:16.039
<v Speaker 2>bad shit to happen for systems to get better, which

1021
00:58:16.039 --> 00:58:18.199
<v Speaker 2>is unfortunate, but that is kind of the way it is.

1022
00:58:18.400 --> 00:58:20.880
<v Speaker 1>Hindsight's twenty twenty, And I've said this on the show before.

1023
00:58:22.239 --> 00:58:26.000
<v Speaker 1>I have a history in my career of occupational health

1024
00:58:26.039 --> 00:58:31.000
<v Speaker 1>and safety, and something we learned in that career path

1025
00:58:31.760 --> 00:58:35.320
<v Speaker 1>is regulations are written in blood because it takes someone

1026
00:58:35.360 --> 00:58:38.679
<v Speaker 1>to get injured or killed for you to look back

1027
00:58:38.679 --> 00:58:41.320
<v Speaker 1>and change it. Yeah, and it's so sad that that's

1028
00:58:41.360 --> 00:58:45.559
<v Speaker 1>the case. Yeah, but anyways, thank you guys for being here.

1029
00:58:45.719 --> 00:58:48.079
<v Speaker 1>Hopefully enjoyed this episode. You want to check out things

1030
00:58:48.079 --> 00:58:50.559
<v Speaker 1>in our description, we have things like our website, We've

1031
00:58:50.599 --> 00:58:52.880
<v Speaker 1>got merch. We've got some exclusive merch actually going to

1032
00:58:52.880 --> 00:58:55.480
<v Speaker 1>be coming out here pretty quick with our five year

1033
00:58:55.519 --> 00:58:58.119
<v Speaker 1>anniversary approaching, so make sure you keep an eye on that.

1034
00:58:58.159 --> 00:59:00.480
<v Speaker 1>We've got our social media's and everything, and as I

1035
00:59:00.519 --> 00:59:01.920
<v Speaker 1>mentioned at the very beginning of this, it should be

1036
00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:05.000
<v Speaker 1>checking out the Olympics. While we were recording this episode,

1037
00:59:05.039 --> 00:59:08.880
<v Speaker 1>Canada did win over Finland to to one, So good

1038
00:59:08.960 --> 00:59:11.719
<v Speaker 1>luck to Finland in the bronze medal game and good

1039
00:59:11.800 --> 00:59:14.320
<v Speaker 1>luck to Canada in the gold medal game. Both teams

1040
00:59:14.320 --> 00:59:15.440
<v Speaker 1>played extremely well.

1041
00:59:15.800 --> 00:59:18.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so good luck to them both. It was Yeah,

1042
00:59:18.960 --> 00:59:21.920
<v Speaker 2>it's hard watching people lose though sometimes right, just like

1043
00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:25.360
<v Speaker 2>the complete defeat on their face, I know, because they're

1044
00:59:25.400 --> 00:59:27.840
<v Speaker 2>just given it, they're all but I mean them still

1045
00:59:27.880 --> 00:59:29.719
<v Speaker 2>going to be able to win bronze is a big deal.

1046
00:59:29.800 --> 00:59:32.280
<v Speaker 1>So yeah. Still proud of the Finland team too, Proud

1047
00:59:32.280 --> 00:59:35.719
<v Speaker 1>of Canada, Proud of Finland, proud of everyone competing in

1048
00:59:34.920 --> 00:59:38.519
<v Speaker 1>the in the Olympics. There we go. I'm judging you

1049
00:59:38.519 --> 00:59:40.960
<v Speaker 1>while I'm on my couch eating chips, is what I'm saying.

1050
00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:44.039
<v Speaker 1>But anyways, thank you guys for being here. We hope

1051
00:59:44.039 --> 00:59:47.840
<v Speaker 1>to see you next time, and until then, stay wicked.
