WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.120 We have this issue I think as a people just 2 00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:06.480 of beaver amnesia, not being able to see what the 3 00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:09.480 beaver's created before us. And I would bet you know 4 00:00:10.119 --> 00:00:13.320 almost the entirety of us that are drinking water and 5 00:00:13.359 --> 00:00:16.039 flushing toilets and taking showers and all the things. Our 6 00:00:16.120 --> 00:00:19.000 water is coming from somewhere that at some point in 7 00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:21.559 its history was shaped by a beaver. 8 00:00:23.559 --> 00:00:25.480 Oh hey, it's a lady at the donut store who 9 00:00:25.519 --> 00:00:28.239 knows that you like Bear Claus ali Ward. This is ologies, 10 00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:32.799 this is beavers. Finally the beavers are here, and ushering 11 00:00:32.799 --> 00:00:36.479 them in is an absolutely delightful beaver man who is 12 00:00:36.479 --> 00:00:39.719 a field naturalist and a conservationist who does a ton 13 00:00:39.759 --> 00:00:44.079 of biological surveys and teaches wildlife tracking and beaver ecology, 14 00:00:44.399 --> 00:00:46.640 and he writes about the beaver as well. He's a 15 00:00:46.679 --> 00:00:51.399 coordinator for the National Wildlife Federation's Montana Beaver Working Group, 16 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:54.560 and he knows so much about beaver's So he spoke 17 00:00:54.600 --> 00:00:57.200 to me one morning from his chili house in the 18 00:00:57.200 --> 00:01:00.719 Swan Valley outside of Missoula, Montana. He was wearing a 19 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:03.880 coat and a hat and a warm smile, and we 20 00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:06.719 just we had the loveliest time chatting beavers as I 21 00:01:06.799 --> 00:01:08.239 knew that we would. So we're going to get to 22 00:01:08.280 --> 00:01:10.159 it in a moment. But first, thank you to all 23 00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:13.079 the patrons at patreon dot com, slash ologies who submitted 24 00:01:13.159 --> 00:01:15.920 questions for this You two can join for as little 25 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:18.480 as a dollar a month to support the show. Thanks 26 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:22.120 for everyone in ologies, merch at ologiesmerch dot com, and 27 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:24.519 to everyone who reviews the show, which helps us so 28 00:01:24.680 --> 00:01:27.599 much it costs you zero dollars. I read them all, 29 00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:31.439 such as this week's from Maximilier, who wrote, I have 30 00:01:31.519 --> 00:01:34.640 been a dedicated listener since the inception of this podcast 31 00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:38.640 in twenty seventeen, Max, seven and a half years. You're 32 00:01:38.680 --> 00:01:40.480 a real one. I like you. Thank you for that. 33 00:01:40.959 --> 00:01:43.079 Thank you to everyone who leaves reviews, and thank you 34 00:01:43.120 --> 00:01:45.439 also to sponsors of the show who make it possible 35 00:01:45.480 --> 00:01:48.280 to donate to a cause selected by the guest each week. 36 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:50.519 So one sech, do you know. 37 00:01:50.519 --> 00:01:53.280 What real power is? It's knowing you're on the same 38 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:56.319 rate for energy all day, every day with a smart 39 00:01:56.359 --> 00:01:59.159 all day plan from board Gosh Energy save up to 40 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:02.000 eight hundred and eighty. You're on dual fuel plus get 41 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:04.280 a two hundred and thirty five. You're a welcome bonus 42 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:08.479 switch today at boardgosh Energy dot I e Board Gosh Energy. 43 00:02:08.719 --> 00:02:10.280 Know your power. 44 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:12.520 Estimating annual bill at twenty six and twenty nine Your 45 00:02:12.639 --> 00:02:15.960 LEUCOSTOMERSONI thirs percentis Gantov smarsh All day electricity unit rates 46 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:18.719 in twenty nine percent of gassas sporcash energy dot E 47 00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:21.479 for full teasncs okay. 48 00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:24.960 So castrology, it's a study. Indeed, it comes from the 49 00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:29.120 root for castor, which may come from the Greek for 50 00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:32.439 he who excels. And there's this big debate about whether 51 00:02:32.919 --> 00:02:37.560 this divine Greek mythological twin named Castor who was worshiped 52 00:02:37.560 --> 00:02:41.280 as a healer, got his name from smelly beaver juice 53 00:02:41.560 --> 00:02:44.520 used as a medicine for millennia, or if it was 54 00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:47.879 the other way around. But we're here. It's now let's 55 00:02:47.879 --> 00:02:52.719 get to what patron Stratford Abbot calls swimming furry chainsaws, 56 00:02:52.759 --> 00:02:57.159 and let's talk about baby beaver's, tooth tools, lodges, dams, 57 00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:00.479 the sound of water, the slap of a tail, who 58 00:03:00.520 --> 00:03:04.719 eats beaver and why the best beaver real estate, the 59 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:08.840 plight of the beaver, hats, whiskey beaver's and folklore in 60 00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:12.240 joke books, In Your Neighborhood and in Your Dreams Forever 61 00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:37.520 with naturalist, wildlife, ecologist, tracker, and castrologist Rob Rich. Rob Rich, 62 00:03:37.800 --> 00:03:44.400 he him is great and castrology. I would this seems 63 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:46.479 like it's something that's been in the books before. Do 64 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:49.240 you beaver people call themselves castrologists? 65 00:03:49.759 --> 00:03:53.719 Generally not castrologists. There was an early book in the 66 00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:57.840 late eighteen hundreds that had that name, actually, but generally 67 00:03:57.879 --> 00:04:02.439 it's not castrology. It's are just beaver fans, beaver believers, 68 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:06.639 all the things that are associated with interest and curiosity 69 00:04:06.639 --> 00:04:07.319 about beavers. 70 00:04:07.639 --> 00:04:09.919 I love that they have the term beaver believer because 71 00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:13.719 I think not all species get a catchy name like that. 72 00:04:13.719 --> 00:04:15.479 That's kind of a classic at the moment. 73 00:04:15.879 --> 00:04:18.839 And where are you right now? Can you set the scene? 74 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:20.040 You're in Montana? 75 00:04:20.519 --> 00:04:24.879 Yeah, I'm calling from northwest Montana and I live in 76 00:04:24.920 --> 00:04:28.199 a valley called the Swan Valley, a little bit northeast 77 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:32.720 of Missoula and south of Kalispell, up against a part 78 00:04:32.720 --> 00:04:35.800 of the Rocky Mountains there and below Glacier National Park. 79 00:04:35.959 --> 00:04:37.759 This is a special valley in a lot of ways. 80 00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:41.000 It's very well watered, it has a lot of historic 81 00:04:41.079 --> 00:04:45.079 beaver activity and current, and was also shaped by glaciers 82 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:47.560 which the beavers actively followed. 83 00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:51.639 Oh, so the beavers followed the glaciers down in their 84 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:55.759 evolution to where they where there was water, the beavers went. 85 00:04:56.120 --> 00:04:56.600 In a way. 86 00:04:56.759 --> 00:04:57.000 Yeah. 87 00:04:57.160 --> 00:05:01.160 The last glaciation that covered America was about ten to 88 00:05:01.279 --> 00:05:04.000 twelve thousand years ago, I believe. Is it poked out 89 00:05:04.040 --> 00:05:07.519 a lot of depressional wetlands and carved the rivers in 90 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:11.839 certain ways that made it really conducive to complex flows, 91 00:05:11.959 --> 00:05:15.399 which beavers are actively seeking out all the time, and 92 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:18.639 so they find in glaciated regions of North America. And 93 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:21.839 so beavers and glaciers together are two of the major 94 00:05:21.839 --> 00:05:24.160 continental shapers of North America. 95 00:05:24.199 --> 00:05:27.560 And you mentioned North America. Where else in the world 96 00:05:27.639 --> 00:05:30.279 do beavers live? Are they just a North American species? 97 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:32.120 I feel like I should know this, but I feel 98 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:34.480 like maybe zoos all over the world have beavers, But 99 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:37.079 do they naturally occur in other places? 100 00:05:37.439 --> 00:05:39.720 Yeah, So that's a great question. You know, the beaver 101 00:05:39.879 --> 00:05:43.800 evolution is very complex, and we actually at one time 102 00:05:43.879 --> 00:05:48.399 had thirty three different genera of beavers, and genera like 103 00:05:48.439 --> 00:05:52.439 the genus species binomial classification, So we had thirty three 104 00:05:52.519 --> 00:05:56.800 different types of genus of beaver across the northern hemisphere 105 00:05:56.839 --> 00:05:59.639 at one time, and that is totally at this point 106 00:05:59.639 --> 00:06:04.120 when down to one genus, the genus castor and Castor 107 00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:08.199 canadensis is the North American beaver, the only one native 108 00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:12.439 to this continent, and Castor fiber is the beaver that 109 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:16.319 the Eurasian beaver, and that is over in Europe and 110 00:06:16.399 --> 00:06:17.839 parts of northern Asia as well. 111 00:06:18.279 --> 00:06:22.079 The fossil record dates back thirty three million years with 112 00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:26.560 thirty three beaver genera that's not even species, so many 113 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:27.439 beaver options. 114 00:06:27.800 --> 00:06:31.519 About thirty three million years ago, I believe, is when 115 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:35.879 the beavers really started diversifying and a lot of rodents generally, 116 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:39.680 that was a really time of rodent diversification, and so 117 00:06:40.120 --> 00:06:43.199 we had, you know, beaver's one that was kind of 118 00:06:43.240 --> 00:06:47.680 more recent times castoroidies that lived just south of the 119 00:06:47.720 --> 00:06:50.800 glacial ice sheets and whatnot, and so that was one 120 00:06:50.800 --> 00:06:52.959 that was about the size of a bear, almost like 121 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:55.040 one hundred and seventy five two hundred pounds in a 122 00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:58.839 very large beaver. We had beaver's one called Paleo castor 123 00:06:58.959 --> 00:07:03.439 that actually dug corkscrew like tunnels with its teeth into 124 00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:06.279 what we now know as the prairies of Nebraska and 125 00:07:06.360 --> 00:07:07.920 so very different lifestyle. 126 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:14.560 Huge beavers, bear sized beavers, and some that dugs spiral tunnels. 127 00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:17.079 They are gone, but they are never going to be forgotten, 128 00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:18.800 Please tell all of your friends. 129 00:07:19.079 --> 00:07:22.959 But it wasn't until they really converged on that semi 130 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:27.480 aquatic behavior and the wood cutting and dam building behaviors. 131 00:07:27.519 --> 00:07:30.199 When all three of those parts converged in the beaver, 132 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:34.600 that is what drew their evolutionary success. And that's kind 133 00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:36.199 of the one that's persisting today. 134 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:41.879 I cannot imagine a beaver so big. That's unfathomable to me, 135 00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:46.600 not unsurprising. But what about modern day beavers, let's say 136 00:07:46.600 --> 00:07:48.560 the North American ones, or I'm not sure they differ 137 00:07:48.839 --> 00:07:51.759 much with euration, But how big are they? If I 138 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:55.040 were to, let's say, just be blessed with the ability 139 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:57.439 to hold a beaver? How is it like the sack 140 00:07:57.439 --> 00:08:00.360 of potatoes? Are they smaller than we think? Can't even 141 00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:02.439 get my head around because I see them from so 142 00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:04.399 far away, if I ever get to see them. 143 00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:07.879 Yeah, good question. So there's some regional variation in that, 144 00:08:08.240 --> 00:08:11.560 but generally beavers in the North are a little bit larger, 145 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:15.519 just to have a larger body size to sustain themselves 146 00:08:15.560 --> 00:08:18.839 through the winter and have that energy capacity. But I 147 00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:22.800 would say an average size would be between forty to 148 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:26.439 fifty pounds for an adult beaver, but they can get 149 00:08:26.519 --> 00:08:29.040 up to you know, sixty to ninety pounds in some 150 00:08:29.120 --> 00:08:31.759 of those areas where they're quite large. And this is 151 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:35.080 not sack of potato size for them at all. It's 152 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:38.960 more along the side of a small dog in some ways, 153 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:42.240 maybe like a border collie, but much lower to the ground. 154 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:46.720 Obviously shorter legs, but something along those lines. When they're born, 155 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:50.360 though they're only about a pound or about the size 156 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:52.720 of a loaf of bread. Maybe you know that would 157 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:55.360 be a good comparison for a newborn beaver. It's about 158 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:55.840 a pound. 159 00:08:56.120 --> 00:08:58.039 Do you know what weighs a pound? Like a big 160 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:02.399 apple or an orange abe beaver the size of a 161 00:09:02.440 --> 00:09:05.480 piece of fruit. In fact, one rehabber site I went 162 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:09.799 to described them thuslye A healthy kit looks like a large, 163 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:14.639 fuzzy softball with a rubber like tail. They're so tiny. 164 00:09:14.840 --> 00:09:17.440 How many are in a litter. 165 00:09:17.679 --> 00:09:21.120 Generally two kits. A newborn beaver is called a kit, 166 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:23.799 and so generally two kits per litter, they can have 167 00:09:23.960 --> 00:09:28.600 up to four. Sometimes the yearlings of that same monogamous 168 00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:31.960 pair of male and female will stay on with the family, 169 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:34.720 and so you can have a combination of the two 170 00:09:34.799 --> 00:09:38.240 adults and then yearlings from the previous year, and then 171 00:09:38.360 --> 00:09:41.240 newborns all in one lodge at the same time. But 172 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:44.440 by the time they reach two years old, that's typically 173 00:09:44.519 --> 00:09:48.200 a natural dispersal time for beavers, and so the two 174 00:09:48.279 --> 00:09:52.360 year olds will leave their natal birth area and strike 175 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:55.600 out to find a new wetland that they can call 176 00:09:55.639 --> 00:09:56.080 their own. 177 00:09:56.639 --> 00:09:59.480 And they're monogamous, how long do they tend to stick 178 00:09:59.519 --> 00:10:01.159 together for It's a great question. 179 00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:03.639 Generally they stay together for the entire time. 180 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:07.600 Beavers they love love, We love them for it, although 181 00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:10.519 some North American beavers do cheat, I found out, but 182 00:10:10.600 --> 00:10:14.799 the Eurasian ones are pretty much totally loyal. But beaver's 183 00:10:14.799 --> 00:10:16.759 co parent, which is more than we can say for 184 00:10:16.879 --> 00:10:19.919 a lot of bitter couples that I see posting on TikTok. 185 00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:24.840 And very social and very territorial against other non related beavers. 186 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:28.039 They erect a lot of scent mounds. They're called or 187 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:30.879 and they can be up to over a foot wide 188 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:33.240 a foot tall, and so there are these just heaps 189 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:36.759 of dredged up vegetation and mud from the bottom of 190 00:10:36.840 --> 00:10:40.559 the pond or the wetland where they are, and then 191 00:10:40.600 --> 00:10:44.200 they can dollop all their castorium on top of that, 192 00:10:44.279 --> 00:10:47.799 which is a very unique smelling excretion from a particular 193 00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:50.480 gland in them. But they can bring that out to 194 00:10:50.759 --> 00:10:54.120 put on the castor mound or scent mound sometimes called 195 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:57.559 to kind of ward off non related beavers. 196 00:10:57.840 --> 00:11:00.440 I'm so glad that you brought up that gland because 197 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:05.240 I'm boggled by it, and I didn't know that castorium 198 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:10.440 was a product necessarily. Is it really used for things 199 00:11:10.480 --> 00:11:15.840 like artificial vanilla and strawberry and raspberry? Is there any 200 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:19.679 known history on how humans realize that these scent mounds 201 00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:24.120 and that these secretions from beavers would be delicious additives 202 00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:24.639 to things. 203 00:11:25.159 --> 00:11:28.960 Well, they definitely do have a particular scent, and it's 204 00:11:29.039 --> 00:11:32.679 not something that is out of question to smell yourself. 205 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:36.159 You can definitely find these, especially in the springtime when 206 00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:39.159 beavers are actively dispersing that, you know, at the same 207 00:11:39.159 --> 00:11:42.519 time about when new kits are born is a really 208 00:11:42.519 --> 00:11:45.440 important time to kind of mark the territory, so to speak. 209 00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:48.840 And so these scent mounds are all over the place 210 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:50.639 at that time, and it does have kind of a 211 00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:54.720 vanilla ish tint. I think it's very nice. It's probably 212 00:11:54.759 --> 00:11:57.759 dependent on the nose who's smelling it. And it does 213 00:11:57.960 --> 00:12:01.440 have a history of being used in certains, and you know, 214 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:04.279 we have used it for perfume and different things. I 215 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:09.159 believe there's schnapps in is it Germany or I believe 216 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:12.679 it's Germany that uses beaver hat and it's kind of 217 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:16.480 like a schnaps liquor that wies on that. 218 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:19.879 Okay, So I looked into this and castorium is again 219 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:23.080 not in the Anal glands, but in these different pouches 220 00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:26.679 near there, And yes, both male and female beavers make it. 221 00:12:26.759 --> 00:12:30.399 Everyone makes it, not you, but beavers do. And this unctious, 222 00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:36.000 creamy orange substance has vanilla notes and suggests the smell 223 00:12:36.039 --> 00:12:38.440 of an old leather chair and a den full of 224 00:12:38.679 --> 00:12:41.639 antique books. And I've read that's owing to all the 225 00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:44.679 trees that kind of make their way through beaver guts. 226 00:12:45.080 --> 00:12:49.120 And you can gently milk kastorium from a beaver, but 227 00:12:49.519 --> 00:12:52.200 that is seen as very rude to many beavers, so sadly, 228 00:12:52.279 --> 00:12:55.440 most of it comes from trappers who harvest the sack, 229 00:12:55.759 --> 00:12:58.960 and they sometimes let that sack dry out and mellow 230 00:12:59.039 --> 00:13:02.080 for a few years before grinding it up. Now, other 231 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:05.080 than actively seeking it out, you're not likely to find 232 00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:08.519 castorium like hiding in your foods. It's just much cheaper 233 00:13:08.559 --> 00:13:12.600 to use actual vanilla or artificial vanilla flavor a lot 234 00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:15.120 easier to harvest, so it's rare to find anything with 235 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:18.320 castorium on a shelf. Although that liquor that Rob mentioned 236 00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:22.320 it sounds extremely German in concept and its name has 237 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:26.960 umlots and it translates to beaver howl, but it's actually Swedish. 238 00:13:27.159 --> 00:13:30.559 And my dear friend Simon Yech happens to be both 239 00:13:30.559 --> 00:13:33.879 Swedish and in Sweden, and so I texted her and 240 00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:37.360 her mom at an ungodly time for me, but it 241 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:40.200 was a normal person time for Sweden, and I asked 242 00:13:40.399 --> 00:13:44.960 if this was like a common beverage and she was like, no, no, 243 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:48.000 I've never heard of that. But there's this place called 244 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:51.440 Tamworth Distillery in the US and they do offer an 245 00:13:51.639 --> 00:13:56.000 o da musk beaver gland perfumed whiskey. In case you 246 00:13:56.039 --> 00:13:58.000 need to get your hands and your tongues on that. 247 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:01.399 Why would you though, well, well, it's supposed to be tasty, 248 00:14:01.519 --> 00:14:03.919 But also for thousands of years it was used to 249 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:07.559 treat gout and fevers and headaches and other ailments. But 250 00:14:07.879 --> 00:14:13.600 the nineteen sixty nine publication Pliny's Pheromonic of Bortive Fascians 251 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:17.960 in the Journal Science says that castorium used as an 252 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:22.559 incense could provide the termination of a pregnancy. According to 253 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:26.440 the Roman naturalist Pliny, who lived in the first century 254 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:29.879 eighty what else was used back then as family planning? Well, 255 00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:33.919 your other options were looking at a viper holding a 256 00:14:34.039 --> 00:14:38.639 raven's egg, stepping over a beaver, or letting pass into 257 00:14:38.679 --> 00:14:42.639 your crotch the fumes from an ass's house, and the 258 00:14:42.679 --> 00:14:47.639 paper notes parenthetically donkey's stable. But thanks to several thousand 259 00:14:47.720 --> 00:14:50.240 years of progress, medically, one need not dance over a 260 00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:54.519 beaver or invite donkey fumes up your tunic because there 261 00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:57.840 are pharmaceuticals now. But while here in the US many 262 00:14:57.840 --> 00:15:00.519 states have rolled back access to that health care to 263 00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:05.960 precastorium in a lantern times, but anyway, rodent secretions many 264 00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:09.639 uses throughout the years, but no your birthday cake flavored 265 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:12.039 lip glass does not have beaver but in it, you're good. 266 00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:14.600 They're kind of artificially synthesized now. 267 00:15:14.840 --> 00:15:17.720 And you can smell it when you're out looking for 268 00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:20.600 beavers or if you're out in the field. Is it 269 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:25.120 something like the breeze shifts and then suddenly you can 270 00:15:25.159 --> 00:15:25.919 smell a mound. 271 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:29.600 It's not that sharp, it won't be wafting everywhere, but 272 00:15:29.679 --> 00:15:33.679 it's very concentrated and localized, and you do kind of 273 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:35.600 know when you hit it, when you're like kind of 274 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:38.840 near it yourself, but it generally takes you know, leaning 275 00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:40.639 down and just kind of getting up close to it 276 00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:42.720 and just but it's a very nice smell. It doesn't 277 00:15:42.759 --> 00:15:45.960 have anything related to scat or urine or they do 278 00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:50.080 have a very pronounced anal gland as well. Oh nice, 279 00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:53.120 but that's used for waterproofing. That's not used for the 280 00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:55.159 purposes of defending their territory. 281 00:15:55.960 --> 00:15:57.799 Do you have any idea how far away you are 282 00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:00.440 from a beaver right now? Like where you live in 283 00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:03.000 this one valley? Do you know when I cross this 284 00:16:03.159 --> 00:16:06.159 bridge into town there's a dam or a lodge there. 285 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:09.159 Are you pretty aware of where they are in your 286 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:10.360 local environment. 287 00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:13.519 Yeah, I am, and I think that's one of the 288 00:16:13.559 --> 00:16:16.919 things that I'm really passionate about is just interpreting, you know, 289 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:19.840 beaver landscapes wherever you are. I mean, so many of 290 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:23.279 us on the North American continent live in and among 291 00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:28.279 beaver wetlands without even knowing it. Sometimes we have this issue, 292 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:31.399 I think as a people, just of beaver amnesia, not 293 00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:34.200 being able to see what, you know, the beaver's created 294 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:37.679 before us. And I would bet you know, almost the 295 00:16:37.879 --> 00:16:41.120 entirety of us that are drinking water and flushing toilets 296 00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:43.440 and taking showers and all the things. Our water is 297 00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:46.440 coming from somewhere that at some point in its history 298 00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:50.360 was shaped by a beaver. And there are things, you know, 299 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:54.720 that we can still see looking at aerial photography, looking 300 00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:58.279 at you know, different ways the land drains, that land 301 00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:01.399 stacked up, and that might have been a beaver dam 302 00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:04.759 from like a couple centuries ago or something. And so 303 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:08.039 it's really neat to be able to interpret it at 304 00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:11.240 that level of history. In a contemporary sense, I love 305 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:13.880 being able to kind of know my neighbors, so to speak, 306 00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:17.519 of whose who's building, and who's active, who's you know, 307 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:20.079 it's a very much a dynamic ebb and flow cycle 308 00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:22.240 of the beaver, so fun to watch. 309 00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:25.160 And what about you? Where did you grow up and 310 00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:28.240 when did you start wanting to be involved with tracking 311 00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:31.559 beavers and learning more about them. I've only seen maybe 312 00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:36.079 one or two in my life in Montana splashing from afar, 313 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:39.119 but I know I'm fascinated with them. But when did 314 00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:39.920 it start for you? 315 00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:43.039 I didn't have like one big light bulb moment. I 316 00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:46.039 consider myself very fortunate to you know, grew up in 317 00:17:46.039 --> 00:17:49.720 a family that really supported just my natural curiosities in 318 00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:51.359 a lot of ways. And I grew up in the 319 00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:54.599 Northeast and spent a lot of time in northern New 320 00:17:54.680 --> 00:17:57.240 York and New England, you know, doing hiking and stuff, 321 00:17:57.279 --> 00:18:00.240 and beaver's were certainly part of the theme. Then I 322 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:03.160 would spend a lot of time in the woods saw beavers, 323 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:06.079 but they were just another animal at the time for me. 324 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:09.480 It wasn't anything like they were changing the world in 325 00:18:09.559 --> 00:18:11.279 the way that they do. But I think one of 326 00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:14.759 the kind of milestones for me was going to Isle 327 00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:18.039 Royal National Park after college. Is one of my first 328 00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:21.680 wildlife fieldwork gigs was I was helping out with this 329 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:26.880 wolf Moose Project. It's called Our ostensible purpose was really 330 00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:31.680 to track down the bones of moose that were killed 331 00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:34.519 by wolves the previous winter. You know, I was there 332 00:18:34.519 --> 00:18:38.039 in the summer, and I was just mind blown with 333 00:18:38.119 --> 00:18:42.400 how the beavers had changed the environment there in a 334 00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:45.799 way that was not only conducive to the moose, but 335 00:18:45.880 --> 00:18:49.319 also really important for supporting the wolves as well. You know, 336 00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:52.279 wolves are one of the leaner times for them is 337 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:55.960 in summer, and so I was just fascinated by you know, 338 00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:58.000 this is a time when the wolves have adapted to 339 00:18:58.119 --> 00:19:01.880 eat beavers as well. I really got to get a 340 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:05.279 really close look and just appreciate their keystone role as 341 00:19:05.319 --> 00:19:09.200 just how complicated and connected and all the things that 342 00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:14.440 they do for diverse animals, predators, prey and everything in between. 343 00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:18.160 And so they're a real integrator of a lot of things. 344 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:20.480 And that's one of the areas where it really lit 345 00:19:20.559 --> 00:19:20.960 up for me. 346 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:24.000 You're talking about them is something that changes the ecosystem 347 00:19:24.039 --> 00:19:26.559 and can have a lot of impact on things like 348 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:33.319 literally downstream, and humans unfortunately have kind of stepped into 349 00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:37.839 that role, not in good ways a lot, but I'm 350 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:42.599 so curious about the beaver instinct and they can have 351 00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:46.839 such huge impacts on environments, and I don't know how 352 00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:49.200 they know how to do that, because I couldn't go 353 00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:52.480 just build a boat by myself. I couldn't just go 354 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:56.200 build a house by myself. How do beavers know how 355 00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:59.480 to chop down wood, how to stack it? What exactly 356 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:02.839 are they doing with all of this instinct and how 357 00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:07.319 is it shaping the environment in their immediate way? What 358 00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:10.359 does it do for beavers to make dams and lodges? 359 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:14.119 Yeah? Thanks, you're welcome. So I think one of the 360 00:20:14.680 --> 00:20:17.759 things that is happening is that it's both a It 361 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:20.960 is an instinct, there is part of that proclivity to 362 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:24.319 do that instinctually, but it's also a learned response. They've 363 00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:28.799 shown how beavers are actively young beavers are actively learning 364 00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:31.880 with their parents and watching them and manipulating wood in 365 00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:36.000 the same way. And so building a dam is not 366 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:40.079 a necessity for a beaver that is not in itself, 367 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:41.680 is not what's necessary. 368 00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:45.200 Wait, they don't need to build dams like all of them. 369 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:48.359 I guess if you score an apartment next to a park, 370 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:51.440 you don't need to erect a swing set in the 371 00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:52.079 front yard. 372 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:56.759 Beavers are thriving on wake systems where they can have 373 00:20:56.880 --> 00:20:59.960 plenty of water. They're on rivers a lot of time 374 00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:03.000 where they can bank up in the side of the 375 00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:06.319 riverbank without any consequence, and they don't need to build 376 00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:09.960 an entire dam across a river or what not to 377 00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:14.559 have their way. But what dam building does is it 378 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:19.599 is a mechanism for you know, extending their safety from predators, 379 00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:23.920 but also increasing their access to food. And so when 380 00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:27.720 they build a dam in a stream system, it's not 381 00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:31.279 only spreading the water out across you know, the stream 382 00:21:31.319 --> 00:21:34.519 system laterally, but it's also stacking up a lot of 383 00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:38.119 weight behind that dam, and so it's sinking more water 384 00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:42.119 into exchange with the ground water system. And I think 385 00:21:42.200 --> 00:21:44.480 too often we just think of our river systems as 386 00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:47.640 one you know, upstream downstream, you know, going one way. 387 00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:50.720 And what's natural about rivers and watershed systems is that 388 00:21:50.759 --> 00:21:54.559 when they spread out as well as down so laterally 389 00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:59.880 and vertically as well. And the researcher Ellen Wool has 390 00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:02.559 just done a lot of great work showing that kind 391 00:22:02.599 --> 00:22:06.519 of hydrological complexity of beaver systems. 392 00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:11.000 So beaver's making damps not only spread the stream water 393 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:14.759 wider out, but deeper into the soils as well and 394 00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:17.519 into the groundwater. And for more you can see doctor 395 00:22:17.559 --> 00:22:21.160 wolves twenty seventeen paper in the Journal of Water Resources 396 00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:26.319 Research titled Beaver mediated Lateral Hydrologic connectivity, Fluvial carbon and 397 00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:31.119 nutrient flux and Aquatic Ecosystems Metabolism, which maybe you've already read, 398 00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:34.960 but if not, TLDR is that our beaver friends make 399 00:22:35.319 --> 00:22:39.680 complex watery environments and that those areas are good sync 400 00:22:39.799 --> 00:22:43.559 for water when the streams run low, and for carbon 401 00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:47.119