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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to mid Rats with sal from Commander Salamander, an

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<v Speaker 1>Eagle one from Eagle Speak at Seer Shore your home

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<v Speaker 1>for a discussion of national security issues and all things maritime.

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<v Speaker 1>And good day everybody. Glad to have you on board.

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<v Speaker 1>And if you're with us Live, I'd like to go

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<v Speaker 1>ahead and do the altar call to extend an invitation

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<v Speaker 1>to you to find the chat room. That's a place

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<v Speaker 1>where if you have some observations you would like to

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<v Speaker 1>share during the course of the show, or even some

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<v Speaker 1>questions you would like for us to address to our guests.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll be monitoring that for the next hour and we'll

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<v Speaker 1>be glad to bring your ideas and roll that into

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<v Speaker 1>the conversation. And also if you don't already, if you

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<v Speaker 1>have to run off and do something before the show

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<v Speaker 1>is done, or you're with us live and are you

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<v Speaker 1>just happen to me the first time you're listening to

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<v Speaker 1>mid Rats and you want to make sure not miss

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<v Speaker 1>our shows. If you go over to iTunes, Spotify, Spreaker,

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<v Speaker 1>wherever you get your podcasts, go ahead and find us

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<v Speaker 1>and subscribe. It's for free, and that way the podcast

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<v Speaker 1>will be ready for you in case you can't join

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<v Speaker 1>us live, or you just have a busy life like

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<v Speaker 1>folks have. Now today we're going to It seems like

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<v Speaker 1>an esoteric topic when we started off, but the last

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<v Speaker 1>ninety six hours especially, it's kind of broken above the

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<v Speaker 1>background noise. And depending on how closely you've been tracking

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<v Speaker 1>Navy and military selift issues, you're probably on the spectrum

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<v Speaker 1>of shocked, dismayed, or perhaps which is kind of where

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<v Speaker 1>I am. When the news came out this week that

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<v Speaker 1>the Navy will reportedly sideline seventeen vessels due demand power shortage,

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<v Speaker 1>and our friend Samula Grone see I even mention your

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<v Speaker 1>name now and then Sam he's the one that broke

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<v Speaker 1>the story, And in the last ninety six hours a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of people have picked it up. A lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people have reached out to me, and I'm sure my

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<v Speaker 1>co host and our guests as well, because these aren't

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<v Speaker 1>just ships that nobody needs. These are high demand, low

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<v Speaker 1>density assets. We're looking at a fleet oiler, a dozen

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<v Speaker 1>Spearhead class expeditionary fast transports, and two four deployed Navy

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<v Speaker 1>expeditionary sea bases. Over seven hundred impacted mariners will be

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<v Speaker 1>reassigned to other ships and the This is affecting a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of these ships. Some of them are mixed ships,

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<v Speaker 1>but they're mostly USNSIE merchant mariners. But there's also some

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<v Speaker 1>US Navy personnel that can be impacted as well. The

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<v Speaker 1>Chief of Naval Operation supposedly is calling this a quote

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<v Speaker 1>great reset. Well is it really? And that's what we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to talk about today with our returney guest doctor

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<v Speaker 1>salam Marcogliano. He is the chair Department of History, Criminal Justice,

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<v Speaker 1>and Political Science Campbell University and host of the must

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<v Speaker 1>watch YouTube channel What's going On with Shipping? Sal Welcome

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<v Speaker 1>back to mid Rats.

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<v Speaker 2>Guys. Thank you so much for having me back. I

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<v Speaker 2>know this is Mark's worst nightmare. Two sALS. It's always

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<v Speaker 2>a nightmare for him to deal with this.

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<v Speaker 1>The other Sal like we called you are originally many

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<v Speaker 1>moons ago we first had you on, and I just

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<v Speaker 1>want to emphasize for the listeners here, Unfortunately, because we

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<v Speaker 1>are audio only here on mid Rats, you are not

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<v Speaker 1>blessed with that beautiful visage that Sal has over his

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<v Speaker 1>YouTube channel. I just would everybody really needs to watch that.

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<v Speaker 1>And last time we had you on, I kind of

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<v Speaker 1>waxed your apple. But there have been a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people through the years, and I'm sure you've heard it

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<v Speaker 1>as well, sal who go, Well, it's kind of initial,

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<v Speaker 1>there's not much of an interest. Well, you have the

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<v Speaker 1>right background, the lot, right personality, and the right collection

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<v Speaker 1>of shirts that you've really accumulated the right audience over

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<v Speaker 1>there at YouTube, and I think that's helped everybody because

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<v Speaker 1>you don't play to your audience. You're covering those issues

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<v Speaker 1>that I know you've always covered and it's really increased

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<v Speaker 1>U increased the awareness out there, like a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>us have wanted for a long time. So before I

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<v Speaker 1>get into the h get into the questions, I just

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to to thank you again for doing that and

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<v Speaker 1>to congratulate you on the great success you've had over

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<v Speaker 1>at YouTube.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I appreciate that. It's very nice you to say.

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<v Speaker 2>And let's be clear, long before I started the YouTube channel,

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<v Speaker 2>you were all very nice to have me on and

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<v Speaker 2>so I owe no small amount to you guys getting

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<v Speaker 2>my name out there and getting some attention to the

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<v Speaker 2>stuff I was talking about at the time and writing about.

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<v Speaker 1>The market always seeks qualities. I was just glad to

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<v Speaker 1>we got you before you got too big for your breches.

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<v Speaker 1>But getting back back at the topic at hand, I

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<v Speaker 1>mean seventeen vessels. This is not a salami slice. This

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<v Speaker 1>isn't a slight revision one to a standing policy. This

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<v Speaker 1>is a significant move with seven hundred mariners involved. It

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<v Speaker 1>didn't happen overnight, but there was some straw that finally

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<v Speaker 1>broke the camel's back, or at least had the cno say,

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<v Speaker 1>I got to do something. What do you think happened

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<v Speaker 1>that finally reached us to this point?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this has been a long time coming. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>Sam mcgrone actually called me before he released the story

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<v Speaker 2>and we had a conversation. I had known about these

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<v Speaker 2>ships beforehand, and Sam was really shocked by the number

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<v Speaker 2>because these are you know, there's seventeen support ships, but

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<v Speaker 2>there's seventeen out of the battle for US. These are

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<v Speaker 2>counted in. About one out of five ships in the

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<v Speaker 2>US Navy have merchant mariner cruise on board USNS or

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<v Speaker 2>hybrid cruise where it's a mix of navy and civilian

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<v Speaker 2>on And you know, I could take it back a

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<v Speaker 2>long way to do this, but I'll take it back

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<v Speaker 2>to the nineteen eighties where I think this really started.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, in the nineteen eighties, there was a decision

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<v Speaker 2>being made that really started this trend to what we're

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<v Speaker 2>seeing today. You had the Cold War, the plan was

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<v Speaker 2>to go for a six hundred ship navy were coming

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<v Speaker 2>out of Vietnam and so the Navy was very focused

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<v Speaker 2>on the six hundred ship navy. And this had two impacts.

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<v Speaker 2>Number one, we saw that you know, we closed down

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<v Speaker 2>the Navy shipyards. We transitioned four of the yards to

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<v Speaker 2>just repair facilities. Weren't going to build ships in them anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>So that meant Navy ship construction was going to go

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<v Speaker 2>into commercial yards. That means that commercial ship building was

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<v Speaker 2>going to go overseas, and that's what happened. The commercial

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<v Speaker 2>ship building went over to Europe, to Korea, to Japan.

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<v Speaker 2>But the US also decided to cut back on the

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<v Speaker 2>subsidies for the international fleet. We had already seen a

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<v Speaker 2>decrease in the domestic fleet because of the interstate highway system,

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<v Speaker 2>the interstate pipeline system, so the JONZAC fleet, that coastal

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<v Speaker 2>fleet reduced. And then with the loss of construction and

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<v Speaker 2>operational differential subsidies, you don't have to build ships in

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<v Speaker 2>the US anymore more. Because you think you couldn't because

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<v Speaker 2>it was going to be too expensive, So ship operators

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<v Speaker 2>went overseas, and US Navy contracts kind of flooded into

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<v Speaker 2>the shipyards. The second element was coming out of Vietnam.

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<v Speaker 2>Because we were increasing the size of the Navy and

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<v Speaker 2>we had manpower issues in the US Navy, there was

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<v Speaker 2>a decision made to start transferring over some of the

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<v Speaker 2>auxiliaries to what was then MSTS to Military Sea Transportation Service.

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<v Speaker 2>It transitioned over to Military Sealift Command, and you see

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<v Speaker 2>the first vessel of the Teluga come over in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>seventy three, and you slowly began transitioning auxiliary vessels over

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<v Speaker 2>to what are called sivmore civilian merchant mariners. These are

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<v Speaker 2>merchant mariners in the employ of the federal government. And

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<v Speaker 2>that was the process. Then you win the Cold War.

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<v Speaker 2>And the winning of the Cold War was fantastic on

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<v Speaker 2>one hand, but terrible on another hand, because now all

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<v Speaker 2>of a sudden, you don't need that six hundred ship navy,

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<v Speaker 2>and we go down to a three hundred ship navy.

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<v Speaker 2>And that three hundred ship navy means those shipyards that

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<v Speaker 2>were counting on six hundred ships don't have them anymore,

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<v Speaker 2>and so we have loss of quality and loss of

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<v Speaker 2>construction in the shipyards. A lot of the issues we

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<v Speaker 2>see today in shipyards that you've talked about on this

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<v Speaker 2>show quite a bit can be traced to there. But

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<v Speaker 2>then at the same time you see a reduction in

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<v Speaker 2>the size of the Navy. You have issues like operational

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<v Speaker 2>tempo perse tempo, and so we need to keep ships

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<v Speaker 2>forward deployed longer, and there's a plan put afoot to

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<v Speaker 2>basically transfer all the auxiliaries over to Military Sealift Command.

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<v Speaker 2>There were studies done, and while some people think it's

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<v Speaker 2>cheaper to do it with a civilian crew than a

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<v Speaker 2>Navy crew, it's not exactly true. The thing you get

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<v Speaker 2>is you free up those Navy personnel to go on

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<v Speaker 2>combatant in warships, and most importantly MSc crews aren't impacted

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<v Speaker 2>by operatingational personal tempos. You can send them out to

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<v Speaker 2>sea and they can go out for nine, ten, fifteen months,

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't matter. You can send them out there, and as

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<v Speaker 2>long as you had a pool reservoir of merchant mariners

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<v Speaker 2>to dip in, you can. Nineteen eighties, the merchant marine

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<v Speaker 2>was four hundred and fifty ships well fast forward to

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<v Speaker 2>the modern day. Let's go to the you know, twenty tens.

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<v Speaker 2>All of a sudden, what we begin to see is

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<v Speaker 2>the diminishing of both the US Navy and the merchant Marine.

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<v Speaker 2>We go from a four hundred and fifty ship merchant

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<v Speaker 2>marine down to one hundred and eighty ship merchant marine.

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<v Speaker 2>And the process that Military Sealift Command uses to crew

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<v Speaker 2>its personnel operates under the federal guidelines. I sailed as

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<v Speaker 2>a merchant mariner for MSc, and I was amazed when

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<v Speaker 2>I came ashore and I got a job working at

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<v Speaker 2>MSc headquarters that my leave policy on the ship was

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<v Speaker 2>basically the same leaf policy I had ashore, which is

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<v Speaker 2>fine when I'm a sure you know, when I'm home

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<v Speaker 2>every night, I'm home on weekends, get my holidays off,

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<v Speaker 2>get a snow day once in a while. In DC,

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<v Speaker 2>I can do a compressed work schedule, work gnawing out

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<v Speaker 2>of ten days during two weeks. You can't do that

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<v Speaker 2>on a ship, and it just didn't work. And when

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<v Speaker 2>I first sailed with MSc in the eighties and nineties,

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<v Speaker 2>you were six months on in maybe two months off.

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<v Speaker 2>If you were lucky, you got two months off. MSc

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<v Speaker 2>went to a policy of well, we're going to do

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<v Speaker 2>four months on two months off. But the problem has

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<v Speaker 2>been the pool. They just don't have sufficient mariners to

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<v Speaker 2>do it. And what has happened is that the mariners

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<v Speaker 2>that are out there aren't doing four months, they're doing six,

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<v Speaker 2>they're doing eight months. They're not getting off in the

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<v Speaker 2>time a lotted they have And Sam quoted this in

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<v Speaker 2>his article, they have fifty five hundred mariners for forty

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<v Speaker 2>five hundred positions. That doesn't allow you to do four

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<v Speaker 2>months on two months off. To do four months on

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<v Speaker 2>two months off, you need one point five people for

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<v Speaker 2>every billet. They have one point two, and that creates it.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think the gall the thing that really has

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<v Speaker 2>been the thing that has set this off more than

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<v Speaker 2>any other issue was COVID, and COVID impacted Military Sealift

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<v Speaker 2>Command in a way most people don't understand. The commander

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<v Speaker 2>of MBSC at the time, Admiral Wetlawfer, decided to issue

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<v Speaker 2>what's called a gangway up order. It's infamous in that

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<v Speaker 2>Military Seal of Command. One day he sent out in

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<v Speaker 2>order to all the ships that the gangways are up.

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<v Speaker 2>Nobody comes on and nobody comes off. You're on the ship.

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<v Speaker 2>You're stuck on the ship. You can't get off, and

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<v Speaker 2>he held everybody on the ship. Now, some ships were

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<v Speaker 2>in dock in Norfolk and San Diego and Pearl and

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<v Speaker 2>other places, and some of the crews were you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you have apartments ashore, They go ashore every night. They

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<v Speaker 2>had their cars on the dock, and all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 2>they're stranded on the vessel. But the worst part was

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<v Speaker 2>is not just that they were stranded on the vessel,

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<v Speaker 2>but navy crews and contractors could come and go as

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<v Speaker 2>they like, and this created huge bad blood. It's one

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<v Speaker 2>of the few times I can tell you that all

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<v Speaker 2>the maritime unions got together and wrote a joint letter

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<v Speaker 2>arguing about these actions, and mariners answered with their feet.

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<v Speaker 2>They just quit. They just left. And now we're in

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<v Speaker 2>a situation where if you go to the MSc web

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<v Speaker 2>page right now, they are advertising for every position in

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<v Speaker 2>MSc short of master and chief engineer, and they are

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<v Speaker 2>throwing money at this issue. They are literally just offering

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<v Speaker 2>massive signing bonuses trying to get anybody to come to

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<v Speaker 2>see right now because they're churning through personnel and they

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<v Speaker 2>actually have a problem on the backside of this in

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<v Speaker 2>that the senior officers, the mid and senior officers, second made,

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<v Speaker 2>second assistant engineers and higher are working so much that

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<v Speaker 2>they can't get off that they're actually hitting the federal

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<v Speaker 2>cap in pay. They can't get paid anymore because they're

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<v Speaker 2>making as much as I forget what the cap is,

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<v Speaker 2>but they've hit the cap, and so now they're accruing

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<v Speaker 2>leave instead of pay, but they can't get to leave,

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<v Speaker 2>so they're kind of trapped on board. And this has

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<v Speaker 2>created a massive problem in MSc. Now we can talk

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<v Speaker 2>about what Animal Sobek is doing with the solution, but

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<v Speaker 2>I'll stop here because I just gave you a lot.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, let's let's talk about where the shortage of personnel is.

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<v Speaker 3>Where are we talking masters, the mates or are we

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<v Speaker 3>talking the able bodied seamen? Where is this shortage that

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<v Speaker 3>we really need to address by recruiting people.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, in the past you can target it. It

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<v Speaker 2>was usually the junior officers was always the issue you have,

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<v Speaker 2>But now it's across the board. I mean, you have

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<v Speaker 2>people leaving all ranks, so you know MSc is taking

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<v Speaker 2>the hiring chief mates to come on board, something I

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<v Speaker 2>had never heard of. Really too much. No one came

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<v Speaker 2>from the commercial industry at that senior of a level

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<v Speaker 2>over into MSc. But that's the kind of the dire

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00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:58.960
<v Speaker 2>straits they're in now. So I mean they're looking for

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<v Speaker 2>everybody to in and that's what's generating this big issue

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00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:08.159
<v Speaker 2>in that they need more personnel. They just don't have

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<v Speaker 2>the personnel and they're leaving. And so what Admiral Sobek

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<v Speaker 2>has decided to do is, you know, he needs more personnel.

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<v Speaker 2>But the problem is now you have created such bad blood.

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<v Speaker 2>You've created such a bad work environment. Again, this is

256
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<v Speaker 2>not Aermald Sobac animal, Soovik just inherits this, but you've

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<v Speaker 2>created a work environment where it's very hard to get

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<v Speaker 2>people to come work for MSc. And so how do

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<v Speaker 2>you increase your labor pool? And the way he's going

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<v Speaker 2>to do it is by choosing these seventeen ships, twelve

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<v Speaker 2>fast transports to expeditionary support bases, to akees. These are

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<v Speaker 2>logistics support ships that are over in the pre positioning

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<v Speaker 2>role and one fleet oiler. He's going to take those

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<v Speaker 2>crews off put them into the man power pool so

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<v Speaker 2>that now he can increase the pool for reliefs. The

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<v Speaker 2>problem is that this man power pool he's pulling those

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<v Speaker 2>ships from. A lot of those crews aren't very familiar

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<v Speaker 2>with underweight replenishment. A lot of them went over into

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<v Speaker 2>those ships because they didn't want to do underweight replenishment.

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<v Speaker 2>They liked the schedules they got with an EPF or

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<v Speaker 2>with a expeditionary support base or with the prepositioning ships.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's not exactly clear that these seven hundred crew

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<v Speaker 2>members are going to provide the relief he wants. And

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<v Speaker 2>then you've got to have this sandwich with a program

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<v Speaker 2>to bring more mariners into it. Right now, they're at

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<v Speaker 2>the lowest level they've ever been for recruiting merchant mariners

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<v Speaker 2>out of the state, and Federal School Military Sealift Command

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<v Speaker 2>has sent one of their captains over to King's Point,

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<v Speaker 2>the Federal Merchant Marine Academy, to be there on a

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<v Speaker 2>permanent basis so that he can recruit for MSSE constantly.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel sorry for Braderal Soloviec because brand reputation, once

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<v Speaker 1>it has been critically damaged, both internally and externally, it's

283
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<v Speaker 1>very difficult and it takes a long time to repair that,

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<v Speaker 1>and it takes sustained performance over the course of to

285
00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:17.720
<v Speaker 1>use one of my favorite delineations of time. It takes

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00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:20.919
<v Speaker 1>three or four PCs cycles i e. A decade plus

287
00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:24.360
<v Speaker 1>to fix this, and it's it's a hard thing because

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<v Speaker 1>when people leave a job or they leave a career

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00:16:28.519 --> 00:16:30.840
<v Speaker 1>and go to do something else, it's usually for a

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00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:33.440
<v Speaker 1>few reasons. Some are easy to fix, some or not.

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<v Speaker 1>It's pay where they found they can pay money someplace else,

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<v Speaker 1>Quality of work, quality of life. People are willing to

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<v Speaker 1>have a quality of work, quality of life if it's

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<v Speaker 1>a calling like a doctor or a sailor or a mariner.

295
00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:53.080
<v Speaker 1>But that has its limits, especially when you want things

296
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<v Speaker 1>like a family and a life, and there's also the

297
00:16:56.480 --> 00:16:59.759
<v Speaker 1>leadership in the environment. The easiest thing there to fix

298
00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:04.839
<v Speaker 1>is your pay. And you know, you mentioned something to

299
00:17:04.839 --> 00:17:09.359
<v Speaker 1>me that had me modify a question I was going

300
00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:10.759
<v Speaker 1>to ask later on, but I want to fold it

301
00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:12.359
<v Speaker 1>into this. You talked about when you went on shore

302
00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:15.799
<v Speaker 1>duty that you leave on the same on shore duty

303
00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:21.200
<v Speaker 1>is the same as it is at sea. And you know,

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00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:24.640
<v Speaker 1>we look at the seven hundred mariners put to the sideline.

305
00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:28.759
<v Speaker 1>There is no shortage of bureaucracy on both the Navy

306
00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:31.480
<v Speaker 1>and the military sea lift commands. Side of the house

307
00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:36.720
<v Speaker 1>ashore who don't deploy that are making good money, making

308
00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:44.000
<v Speaker 1>good policy, and the promising one thing and doing another.

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<v Speaker 1>It reminded me in some ways of a certain mindset

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<v Speaker 1>that I don't know how we get around it. For

311
00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:54.640
<v Speaker 1>the Litoral Combat Ship, their initial manning con ops was

312
00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:57.400
<v Speaker 1>And I bring this up all the time because it

313
00:17:57.440 --> 00:17:59.279
<v Speaker 1>makes a point that I don't think it has been addressed.

314
00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:03.200
<v Speaker 1>It was all designed around burning your people out. Literally

315
00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:05.559
<v Speaker 1>you could see up on the PowerPoint slide. Lcs can

316
00:18:05.559 --> 00:18:11.920
<v Speaker 1>deploy for four months because basically people are losing their

317
00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:15.720
<v Speaker 1>mind because they have been working so hard for so long,

318
00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:17.759
<v Speaker 1>and you're not going to be retaining people like that.

319
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<v Speaker 1>It's an objectification of your your sailors and your mariners

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<v Speaker 1>that it's like a piece of machinery. Well, I know

321
00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:27.920
<v Speaker 1>we're supposed to, you know, change the oil at two

322
00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:30.079
<v Speaker 1>thousand hours, but we're going to go to twenty five

323
00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:33.160
<v Speaker 1>hundred today and we'll accept the risk. You know, that's

324
00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:37.319
<v Speaker 1>not machinery. That's people. And I want to talk to

325
00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:39.720
<v Speaker 1>you a little bit about the human capital. These people

326
00:18:39.799 --> 00:18:43.279
<v Speaker 1>that have left and won't come back. These are people,

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00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:46.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, reals of what their sources are or what

328
00:18:46.759 --> 00:18:50.640
<v Speaker 1>their position that have invested years to decades of their

329
00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:55.799
<v Speaker 1>life and the training involved invested in putting somebody in charge,

330
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<v Speaker 1>because you don't want anybody on the bridge during underway

331
00:18:58.519 --> 00:19:03.160
<v Speaker 1>replenishment next to a nuclear eca carrier. It's extensive. When

332
00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:06.160
<v Speaker 1>you invest in these people and they leave and they

333
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<v Speaker 1>don't come back.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh it is. And you know, this is why MSc

335
00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:15.440
<v Speaker 2>uses civilian mariners and they don't contract this out because

336
00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:17.519
<v Speaker 2>there's been you know, discussions about that for a long time.

337
00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:20.079
<v Speaker 2>Well we'll just you know, contract this out. And because

338
00:19:20.119 --> 00:19:22.319
<v Speaker 2>if you look at contract mariners, those that sail with

339
00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:25.319
<v Speaker 2>the unions, they have a much better leaf policy. Me

340
00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:29.160
<v Speaker 2>by the Marine Engineers beneficial association is basically one on,

341
00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:31.480
<v Speaker 2>one off, one month on, one month off. It's a

342
00:19:31.480 --> 00:19:34.079
<v Speaker 2>little different depending on the ship, but basically it's that

343
00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:37.359
<v Speaker 2>schedule that you have and that allows you to have

344
00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:41.079
<v Speaker 2>at least the semblance of you know, normal routine. But

345
00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:44.079
<v Speaker 2>the problem is you can get anybody cycling in on that.

346
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<v Speaker 2>You know, one of the things that you wanted at

347
00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:49.920
<v Speaker 2>MSc is people who are familiar with underwear punishment, with

348
00:19:50.039 --> 00:19:55.480
<v Speaker 2>rig operations, with the operations that's unique to Military Sealift Command.

349
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<v Speaker 2>And let me be clear. You know, you talk to

350
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<v Speaker 2>the crews out of Military Sealift Command, they love the job.

351
00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:01.319
<v Speaker 2>I'm I loved it when I did it. It was

352
00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:05.200
<v Speaker 2>the best job in the world. It was great. It's

353
00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:07.559
<v Speaker 2>just if you were like me getting ready to get married,

354
00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:09.920
<v Speaker 2>you cannot tell your wife when you'd ever be home,

355
00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:12.559
<v Speaker 2>you know, because you just couldn't make a schedule because

356
00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:15.559
<v Speaker 2>at the time I was six months on, two months off,

357
00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:18.319
<v Speaker 2>but there was no way they were meeting that, and

358
00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:21.559
<v Speaker 2>it was just impossible. You know, at least Navy schedules

359
00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:23.920
<v Speaker 2>you have, you know, shore duty at some point MSc,

360
00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:26.640
<v Speaker 2>it's completely at sea the entire time. I had to

361
00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:29.680
<v Speaker 2>quit MSc and come back to work at MSc headquarters

362
00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:34.079
<v Speaker 2>and get rehired to do that. And this has been

363
00:20:34.119 --> 00:20:35.960
<v Speaker 2>the issue. And this has been, you know, again a

364
00:20:36.039 --> 00:20:39.079
<v Speaker 2>long issue. I've had debates and talked to MSc about

365
00:20:39.079 --> 00:20:42.599
<v Speaker 2>this since I left MSc in the nineties, and they

366
00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:45.559
<v Speaker 2>have been making this push. And let's be clear again,

367
00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:47.240
<v Speaker 2>there were a lot of efforts to do this, to

368
00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:50.880
<v Speaker 2>fix the lead policy, to get more personnel in there.

369
00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:54.200
<v Speaker 2>You know, this has been the bane. And I also

370
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<v Speaker 2>go back to another issue, which I think is really

371
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<v Speaker 2>really crucial here is that the MSc mariners are not

372
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<v Speaker 2>in the chain of command when it comes to MSc.

373
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<v Speaker 2>They operate the ships, but they're really not in the

374
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<v Speaker 2>chain of command. They don't have a say in how

375
00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:11.599
<v Speaker 2>policy is set in Norfolk or even at the area commands,

376
00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:15.079
<v Speaker 2>and I think that is a tragic mistake. I really do.

377
00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:17.880
<v Speaker 2>They will bring port captains ashore to help in the

378
00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:20.920
<v Speaker 2>manning and operations, but not really the policy. You know,

379
00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Admiral Sobek should have a senior master chief engineer at

380
00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:29.240
<v Speaker 2>his side as a deputy vice commander of some kind

381
00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:31.640
<v Speaker 2>to you tell them that. And if you look at

382
00:21:31.640 --> 00:21:34.839
<v Speaker 2>the five sees's that MSc has none of them sail

383
00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:37.759
<v Speaker 2>for a military sealift command. So you know, I think

384
00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:41.559
<v Speaker 2>there's a big issue with that, and the crews feel that.

385
00:21:41.799 --> 00:21:45.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you had some tragic accidents that happened here recently.

386
00:21:45.640 --> 00:21:48.079
<v Speaker 2>I mean you had a suicide on board one of

387
00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:52.119
<v Speaker 2>the akes out in Bahrain. You know, that ship had

388
00:21:52.279 --> 00:21:55.759
<v Speaker 2>the third night on board kill himself on the bridge

389
00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:58.640
<v Speaker 2>of the vessel, and then that vessel had to get

390
00:21:58.640 --> 00:22:00.839
<v Speaker 2>out the sea the next day or two because they

391
00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:03.440
<v Speaker 2>had to meet a schedule. There was no stand down,

392
00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:06.359
<v Speaker 2>there was no you know event for you know, let's

393
00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:09.079
<v Speaker 2>switch this ship out and crew, you know, the schedule

394
00:22:09.160 --> 00:22:12.920
<v Speaker 2>had to be met, and that was jarring to I

395
00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:15.960
<v Speaker 2>know members of the crew who left as a direct

396
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:20.880
<v Speaker 2>result of that. And this has caused problems in the fleet,

397
00:22:20.920 --> 00:22:24.839
<v Speaker 2>and again I don't think many in the Navy appreciate it.

398
00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:27.759
<v Speaker 2>We just saw the Royal Fleet Auxiliary crews go on

399
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:31.680
<v Speaker 2>strike because they haven't gotten a pay raise for fourteen years.

400
00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:36.119
<v Speaker 2>But they are treated immensely different than the MSc crews are.

401
00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:38.559
<v Speaker 2>They get four months on, two months off, I think

402
00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:41.359
<v Speaker 2>is their schedule, and it's a pretty rigid schedule they

403
00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:45.319
<v Speaker 2>operate by. So I think that the Navy really needs

404
00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:47.680
<v Speaker 2>to take attention to this, and I think that they

405
00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:51.200
<v Speaker 2>were trying to get this passed very quietly. I think

406
00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:53.359
<v Speaker 2>they were going to release it on Friday before Labor

407
00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:56.000
<v Speaker 2>Day and hopefully make it wouldn't make the news. But

408
00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:59.440
<v Speaker 2>it's reached a point of criticality here where they're doing

409
00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:02.079
<v Speaker 2>this on the eve of a presidential election, which I

410
00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:03.720
<v Speaker 2>don't think anybody wanted to do.

411
00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:08.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, one of the other things I see is that, uh,

412
00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:11.240
<v Speaker 3>and we've We've a number of people have talked about

413
00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:12.759
<v Speaker 3>this before, but I know you mentioned in one of

414
00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:19.200
<v Speaker 3>your one of your brilliant videos, there's no credit given

415
00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:23.960
<v Speaker 3>to the the sid mars for their time spent war zones,

416
00:23:24.039 --> 00:23:26.359
<v Speaker 3>so that they don't get any special medals, they don't

417
00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:29.160
<v Speaker 3>get any combat pay as far as I know. I mean,

418
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:32.160
<v Speaker 3>it's they're out there side by side. Obviously they're they're

419
00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:35.839
<v Speaker 3>re arming or refueling the the carrier to so the

420
00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:38.839
<v Speaker 3>aircraft can get their their fuel. And they've got all

421
00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:42.079
<v Speaker 3>those destroyers and other escorts they've got to go fuel.

422
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:44.519
<v Speaker 3>They're out there in the in the in the danger

423
00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:46.960
<v Speaker 3>zone as they used to say, they're in the Gulf War,

424
00:23:47.319 --> 00:23:49.160
<v Speaker 3>and uh, and they're not getting a whole lot out

425
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:51.400
<v Speaker 3>of that, is it. And they also don't get a

426
00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:53.519
<v Speaker 3>lot of the benefits of if they're If you park

427
00:23:53.559 --> 00:23:56.920
<v Speaker 3>an oiler next to a destroyer inport, the destroyer guys

428
00:23:56.920 --> 00:23:59.400
<v Speaker 3>can go to the exchange and go to the the

429
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:02.160
<v Speaker 3>various dogs and stuff. But I think those those civilian

430
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:04.200
<v Speaker 3>mirrors don't get to do that. They're they're not allowed

431
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:05.319
<v Speaker 3>to do a lot of that stuff.

432
00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:09.000
<v Speaker 2>No, they could do it overseas, but not in US ports.

433
00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:12.279
<v Speaker 2>And again that was another major issue during COVID that

434
00:24:12.279 --> 00:24:15.440
<v Speaker 2>that really came to the forefront. That was a problem.

435
00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:18.440
<v Speaker 2>And you know I made this point. You know, the

436
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:20.960
<v Speaker 2>ship's coming back from the from the Red Sea, the

437
00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:23.559
<v Speaker 2>Eisenhower Battle Group, which did a fantastic job. You know,

438
00:24:23.559 --> 00:24:26.079
<v Speaker 2>they got combat action ribbons. I know, combat action ribs

439
00:24:26.119 --> 00:24:28.480
<v Speaker 2>only go to Navy vessels, and the crews got that.

440
00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:30.799
<v Speaker 2>But you know what was missing was where were the

441
00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:33.920
<v Speaker 2>Merchant Marine expeditionary mets. Where was Marit? Where was MSc

442
00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:38.640
<v Speaker 2>with the awards for the cruise of Patus and Supply

443
00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:42.680
<v Speaker 2>and Kanawa and Shepherd and Amelia Earhart and the console

444
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:46.160
<v Speaker 2>tankers that were out there providing them. You know, we

445
00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:48.920
<v Speaker 2>were talking about this before the show. Supply pumped twenty

446
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:54.480
<v Speaker 2>times twenty times its capacity during its nine months deployment,

447
00:24:54.920 --> 00:24:57.000
<v Speaker 2>which you know, a normal you would see maybe three

448
00:24:57.039 --> 00:24:59.240
<v Speaker 2>to four times on a normal deployment. That gives you

449
00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:04.519
<v Speaker 2>an idea of scope and scale that these ships were performing,

450
00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:08.319
<v Speaker 2>and they're absolutely crucial to it. You know, Merchant mariners

451
00:25:08.359 --> 00:25:11.000
<v Speaker 2>on board those vessels, the masters of those ships are

452
00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:12.759
<v Speaker 2>in the Unified Command. I mean, I mean they are

453
00:25:13.640 --> 00:25:17.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, part of the carrier battlegroups. They're integrated. And

454
00:25:17.559 --> 00:25:19.279
<v Speaker 2>let's not talk about the fact, by the way, that

455
00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:23.119
<v Speaker 2>the ships are completely unarmed. I have no weapon systems

456
00:25:23.160 --> 00:25:25.920
<v Speaker 2>at all on board for defense beyond a Nixy system

457
00:25:26.279 --> 00:25:28.519
<v Speaker 2>that they need to be told to deploy it when

458
00:25:28.599 --> 00:25:32.279
<v Speaker 2>something happens. There's no sea, no sea rams, there's no

459
00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:36.519
<v Speaker 2>defense systems except for some small arms on board. This

460
00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:39.799
<v Speaker 2>is you know, a critical gap in them. And now

461
00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:42.559
<v Speaker 2>you're seeing seventeen vessels being pulled out. And when you

462
00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:47.200
<v Speaker 2>start looking at those seventeen vessels, twelve Spearhead class fast transports,

463
00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:49.559
<v Speaker 2>those have been a ship that's been trying to find

464
00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:52.359
<v Speaker 2>a mission for the you know, fifteen years they've been

465
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:54.480
<v Speaker 2>out there. Some will just say they're just a you know,

466
00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:57.839
<v Speaker 2>works program for hostile but you know they've been being

467
00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:01.400
<v Speaker 2>used more and more as time goes on. But the ESBs,

468
00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:06.160
<v Speaker 2>the Poller and the Williams, those are platforms that sinks

469
00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:08.880
<v Speaker 2>want more and more. I mean, the combatant commanders want

470
00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:11.400
<v Speaker 2>more of these ESBs. You cannot read, you know, a

471
00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:15.799
<v Speaker 2>monthly episode of a monthly magazine of proceedings without seeing

472
00:26:15.799 --> 00:26:19.920
<v Speaker 2>an article in there about ESBs, the akes, I mean, yeah,

473
00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:22.519
<v Speaker 2>they're coming out of the prepositioning fleet, but they would

474
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:25.200
<v Speaker 2>love to have them out in the replenishment fleet and

475
00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:28.079
<v Speaker 2>losing an oiler. That's crazy right now when you look

476
00:26:28.119 --> 00:26:32.480
<v Speaker 2>at how strung out our oilers are. We're running the

477
00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:37.279
<v Speaker 2>Kaiser classes into the ground. The Lewis classes have got issues.

478
00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:39.359
<v Speaker 2>We've seen three of them come out, but none of

479
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:43.359
<v Speaker 2>them have deployed yet because of issues with them and

480
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:47.359
<v Speaker 2>other issues we have percolating behind the scenes. You know,

481
00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:51.559
<v Speaker 2>the Navajo class salvage vessels are coming out late. We're

482
00:26:51.559 --> 00:26:55.359
<v Speaker 2>already plenishing. We're getting rid of salvage vessels. There's no

483
00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:57.720
<v Speaker 2>salvage vessel out in the Red Sea right now to

484
00:26:57.799 --> 00:27:00.960
<v Speaker 2>help with the issue out there. We're seeing issues in

485
00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:04.400
<v Speaker 2>the sealift fleet, where the selift fleet's over forty four

486
00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:08.200
<v Speaker 2>years old. The recapitalization is not going fast enough. We're

487
00:27:08.200 --> 00:27:10.680
<v Speaker 2>losing ships faster than we bring ships in. And then

488
00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:12.599
<v Speaker 2>we're drawing down the Army and the Marine Corps pre

489
00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:15.440
<v Speaker 2>positioning program. So I mean the amount of things that

490
00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:17.839
<v Speaker 2>are hitting the fan right now. Just to use the

491
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:20.079
<v Speaker 2>court I use on my ship My show all the time,

492
00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:21.640
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of ship happening.

493
00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:25.640
<v Speaker 1>There is and that's a great lead in where I

494
00:27:25.640 --> 00:27:28.759
<v Speaker 1>would encourage everybody look at what's going on in the world,

495
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:32.079
<v Speaker 1>and everybody loves to see they have you know, where's

496
00:27:32.119 --> 00:27:33.799
<v Speaker 1>the fleet. So you got a picture of the globe

497
00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:37.240
<v Speaker 1>and have a little dot, you know, the Abraham Lincoln's here,

498
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:41.599
<v Speaker 1>the Teevelt Roosevelt's here, the USS carneya is there. And

499
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:44.279
<v Speaker 1>most people look at that, but they don't realize. And

500
00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:47.240
<v Speaker 1>this is why I think it actually soaked in. Which

501
00:27:47.240 --> 00:27:51.039
<v Speaker 1>is why this this news is getting the attention because

502
00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:53.000
<v Speaker 1>enough people are being told this, but I don't think

503
00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:56.480
<v Speaker 1>we can say it enough. Is if you do not

504
00:27:56.759 --> 00:28:00.240
<v Speaker 1>have these the mariners and these u U s and

505
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:04.720
<v Speaker 1>S auxiliaries out there, your oiler, your your supply ships,

506
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:09.839
<v Speaker 1>you can't fight, you can't always pull into port. Or

507
00:28:09.880 --> 00:28:12.880
<v Speaker 1>if there isn't an oiler available and somebody thinks a

508
00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:15.920
<v Speaker 1>brilliant idea for you to pull into port, you open

509
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:19.160
<v Speaker 1>yourselves up to things like the USS coal. As things

510
00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:22.119
<v Speaker 1>get hotter and the world gets crazier, you want to

511
00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:27.680
<v Speaker 1>be able to supply your warships at sea, at sea

512
00:28:28.119 --> 00:28:30.799
<v Speaker 1>because you can control that, where you can't control things

513
00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:36.079
<v Speaker 1>even end quote friendly unquote ports. So I don't see

514
00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:39.400
<v Speaker 1>any indications from the South China Sea to the Black

515
00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:43.039
<v Speaker 1>Sea to the Red Sea. And boy, I think we

516
00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:46.400
<v Speaker 1>can do a whole show just on salvage ships and

517
00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:49.440
<v Speaker 1>icebreakers and what a self owned this is from a

518
00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:51.720
<v Speaker 1>strategic point of view. But I don't want to go

519
00:28:51.720 --> 00:28:57.960
<v Speaker 1>to that rabbit holecase. I'll get all excited. But where

520
00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:03.079
<v Speaker 1>are we six months, eight months down the road if

521
00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:08.039
<v Speaker 1>we keep doing these like we talked about last episodes

522
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:11.960
<v Speaker 1>on the USS side of the house, is we're back

523
00:29:12.039 --> 00:29:17.920
<v Speaker 1>to the eight nine eleven month deployments. Those don't happen

524
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:20.960
<v Speaker 1>without the auxiliaries. And now we've put seventeen to the side,

525
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:24.799
<v Speaker 1>so we have an even narrower pool at which to

526
00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:28.640
<v Speaker 1>pull from. So is this a reset or is this

527
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:33.400
<v Speaker 1>a gamble that could really have repercussions here in twelve

528
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:34.559
<v Speaker 1>or eighteen months from now.

529
00:29:35.480 --> 00:29:38.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, I am of the opinion that, you know, Admiral

530
00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:40.799
<v Speaker 2>Sobek has taken a great gamble here. And you know,

531
00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:43.960
<v Speaker 2>Sobek was the guy who took the charge on the

532
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:46.440
<v Speaker 2>pier when the Bonhamer shard caught fire. He was the

533
00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:49.279
<v Speaker 2>he was the admiral came down and basically was the

534
00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:51.160
<v Speaker 2>guy who sat there and said we're gonna start fighting

535
00:29:51.160 --> 00:29:52.680
<v Speaker 2>this fire. We're gonna put the wet stuff on the

536
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:56.720
<v Speaker 2>red stuff, and he took action. Unfortunately, he has suffered

537
00:29:56.759 --> 00:29:58.599
<v Speaker 2>for that. It's the reason why he's still a one

538
00:29:58.680 --> 00:30:01.519
<v Speaker 2>star as the command under of Military Sale Command. Remember

539
00:30:01.599 --> 00:30:03.359
<v Speaker 2>MSc used to be a three star billet back in

540
00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:06.640
<v Speaker 2>the day. Now it's been degraded down to one star billet.

541
00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:09.079
<v Speaker 2>Should be a two star billet. But we're waiting for

542
00:30:09.160 --> 00:30:12.119
<v Speaker 2>Sobek's promotion, but it's been kind of hung up with

543
00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:14.279
<v Speaker 2>the bon Armbashard. But I think he's at a moment

544
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:17.720
<v Speaker 2>here where he is showing the leadership that's needed, you know,

545
00:30:17.799 --> 00:30:20.160
<v Speaker 2>pulling those crews off. He's doing what he needs to do,

546
00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:22.279
<v Speaker 2>very similar to what we see going on with Admiral

547
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:25.680
<v Speaker 2>Fagan over in the Coastguard laying up ships because she

548
00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:29.160
<v Speaker 2>wasn't going to run ships and run him with minimum

549
00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:33.559
<v Speaker 2>cruise and throw money into into maintenance. She wanted to

550
00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:36.839
<v Speaker 2>prioritize so Sobek through fleet forces. He's doing this through

551
00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:39.400
<v Speaker 2>fleet forces. Remember he's under he's kind of dual hat

552
00:30:39.400 --> 00:30:41.640
<v Speaker 2>in Sobek. He's got Transcom over him on one side,

553
00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:44.519
<v Speaker 2>he's got us fleet forces on the other side. He's

554
00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:46.480
<v Speaker 2>working with fleet forces and saying, listen, I need to

555
00:30:46.519 --> 00:30:49.960
<v Speaker 2>pull these seventeen ships out. We need to maximize the ships,

556
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:53.279
<v Speaker 2>because even having all the oilers manned was a problem

557
00:30:53.319 --> 00:30:56.400
<v Speaker 2>because they weren't all manned. There were cases in the

558
00:30:56.440 --> 00:30:59.079
<v Speaker 2>spring of this year. I know for a fact that

559
00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:01.400
<v Speaker 2>there were no option rational oilers on the East coast

560
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:04.119
<v Speaker 2>of the United States. You actually had Arley Burke destroyers

561
00:31:04.119 --> 00:31:07.160
<v Speaker 2>having to come back into port to refuel a Craney

562
00:31:07.240 --> 00:31:10.599
<v Speaker 2>Island in Norfolk, something that does not typically happen because

563
00:31:10.599 --> 00:31:13.839
<v Speaker 2>there are no oilers available and the kaisers are in

564
00:31:13.880 --> 00:31:16.319
<v Speaker 2>such poor material condition that many of them. You've got

565
00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:18.480
<v Speaker 2>two on the East Coast, one on the Gulf Coast,

566
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:21.240
<v Speaker 2>two out in Singapore laid up in yards right now

567
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:25.079
<v Speaker 2>because it's just the maintenance is so hard. And then

568
00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:27.960
<v Speaker 2>you have crewing issues where you have ships coming back

569
00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:31.119
<v Speaker 2>in and you're pulling crews off to get crews onto

570
00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:34.119
<v Speaker 2>deploying ships so you have enough people to fly five

571
00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:37.079
<v Speaker 2>rigs at a time on an underway replenishment ship. I

572
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:40.079
<v Speaker 2>think SOBEC really is working a plan here. He's going

573
00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:43.240
<v Speaker 2>to take that pool of seven hundred mariners. He's going

574
00:31:43.279 --> 00:31:47.039
<v Speaker 2>to put them into the pot This will allow him

575
00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:51.519
<v Speaker 2>and his office to start rotating mariners and improve morale.

576
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:53.599
<v Speaker 2>That's the key thing he's got. He's got to improve morale.

577
00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:55.519
<v Speaker 2>I get I get danged by MBSC all the time

578
00:31:55.559 --> 00:31:58.519
<v Speaker 2>because I talk about this and they're saying, you're, you're, you're, you're,

579
00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:01.319
<v Speaker 2>you're highlighting the problem. It's like, I'm not highlighting the problem.

580
00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:03.880
<v Speaker 2>Everyone knows what the problem is. They got to address it,

581
00:32:03.880 --> 00:32:06.759
<v Speaker 2>and now they're addressing it. And if you can do that,

582
00:32:06.759 --> 00:32:09.279
<v Speaker 2>that's great, But there's other steps that have got to follow.

583
00:32:09.400 --> 00:32:12.279
<v Speaker 2>He's got to get a recruitment process out there to

584
00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:15.279
<v Speaker 2>bring in unlicensed from the SIU schools. He's got to

585
00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:19.079
<v Speaker 2>get licensed personnel coming out of the state maritime academies.

586
00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:22.039
<v Speaker 2>I mean, if you're not pulling a certain percentage from

587
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:24.839
<v Speaker 2>the state maritime and federal academy, that's a problem. You

588
00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:27.079
<v Speaker 2>need to address that. And then you've got to work

589
00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:29.799
<v Speaker 2>on the retention problem. And then finally you have to

590
00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:34.759
<v Speaker 2>work on increasing the policy for manpower. MSc for many

591
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:38.119
<v Speaker 2>years sat there and said we will get by II sir,

592
00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:40.720
<v Speaker 2>this is will do what we have to do, and

593
00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:43.000
<v Speaker 2>they can't do that anymore. They have got to sit

594
00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:45.599
<v Speaker 2>there and say we need the personnel to do this.

595
00:32:46.119 --> 00:32:49.920
<v Speaker 2>If you have forty five hundred billets at Military Seal

596
00:32:49.960 --> 00:32:53.359
<v Speaker 2>of Command, you should have at a minimum six seven

597
00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:55.680
<v Speaker 2>hundred and seventy five people working for you. You should have,

598
00:32:55.799 --> 00:32:58.279
<v Speaker 2>you know, at least one and a half people. Ideally

599
00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:00.279
<v Speaker 2>you should have two. You should have you know, up

600
00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:02.519
<v Speaker 2>to nine thousand. But there's no way you're going to

601
00:33:02.599 --> 00:33:05.559
<v Speaker 2>do that. And I think if they start improving the

602
00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:10.720
<v Speaker 2>work style, and they start improving the leave policy, you know,

603
00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:13.039
<v Speaker 2>they're put in starlink on the ships, they're they're making

604
00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:16.079
<v Speaker 2>things better. I think that they can start seeing it,

605
00:33:16.119 --> 00:33:19.440
<v Speaker 2>but it's going to take a concentrated effort. The problem

606
00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:21.960
<v Speaker 2>is a lot of damage has been done.

607
00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:26.279
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I was gonna I was going to to point

608
00:33:26.279 --> 00:33:29.799
<v Speaker 3>out the chain of command for MSc, which is complicated.

609
00:33:29.880 --> 00:33:36.519
<v Speaker 3>I mean transcon transcom Fleet Forces Command, US PACK Fleet

610
00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:39.359
<v Speaker 3>and the Assistant Secretary of the Mayvy for Research, Development

611
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:44.519
<v Speaker 3>and Acquisition. I can't imagine how complicated that makes life

612
00:33:44.519 --> 00:33:47.759
<v Speaker 3>for the for the poor admiral in charge of MSc.

613
00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:50.599
<v Speaker 3>But one of the things I'm looking at is, you know,

614
00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:53.319
<v Speaker 3>we have all these requirements, we have we have a

615
00:33:53.359 --> 00:33:55.839
<v Speaker 3>need for people to be an MSc, and yet we

616
00:33:56.519 --> 00:34:02.680
<v Speaker 3>mandate the same requirements that the Coast Guard puts on

617
00:34:02.759 --> 00:34:09.719
<v Speaker 3>any civilian merchants sailor. And I'm wondering if they cannot

618
00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:13.239
<v Speaker 3>get into that system and make it a little easy

619
00:34:13.239 --> 00:34:15.199
<v Speaker 3>for people to transition and say out of the active

620
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:16.719
<v Speaker 3>duty for US, if that's what they want to do

621
00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:20.800
<v Speaker 3>to become a you know, a part of the of

622
00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:24.039
<v Speaker 3>the Selifts Command. I know that the I'm sure the

623
00:34:24.039 --> 00:34:26.400
<v Speaker 3>the detailers and the people who are running the Navy

624
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:29.960
<v Speaker 3>personnel aren't really happy with that concept, but it seems

625
00:34:29.960 --> 00:34:31.360
<v Speaker 3>to me we could make it a lot easier than

626
00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:33.320
<v Speaker 3>all the hoops that they make these guys jump through

627
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:35.519
<v Speaker 3>to be able to sail with MSc.

628
00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:39.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh. I think there there are many things that could

629
00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:41.920
<v Speaker 2>be done to make it easier. Let's be clear. I mean,

630
00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:45.599
<v Speaker 2>their requirements set on merchant mariners by IMO, but the

631
00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:48.159
<v Speaker 2>US Coast Guards that's additional standards, and then sailing with

632
00:34:48.280 --> 00:34:51.239
<v Speaker 2>MSc puts a whole nother level on top of them.

633
00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:52.960
<v Speaker 2>You know, one of the things that happens when you're

634
00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:55.800
<v Speaker 2>with MSc and you know, you report into the pool

635
00:34:55.960 --> 00:34:58.119
<v Speaker 2>of mariners who are you know, you get into the pool.

636
00:34:58.239 --> 00:34:59.840
<v Speaker 2>You're the group that's going to be sent out to

637
00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:02.800
<v Speaker 2>is when you're in the pool, you have to do training. Well, well,

638
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:05.760
<v Speaker 2>you're doing that training, you're not earning leave. You know,

639
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:08.960
<v Speaker 2>you're not earning shore leave. And so there's there's crazy

640
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:12.079
<v Speaker 2>things that you're working but you're not working that needs

641
00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:16.119
<v Speaker 2>to be ironed out. They're they're still doing the old

642
00:35:16.159 --> 00:35:18.559
<v Speaker 2>school where you were based on the east or west coast,

643
00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:20.840
<v Speaker 2>and so they will only pay for you to fly

644
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:23.039
<v Speaker 2>from either the east or west coast, depending on where

645
00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:25.199
<v Speaker 2>you're hired from. So if you're living in the middle

646
00:35:25.239 --> 00:35:26.639
<v Speaker 2>of the country, you have to pay for your own

647
00:35:26.679 --> 00:35:28.400
<v Speaker 2>way to get to the east coast to fly out.

648
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:32.559
<v Speaker 2>There's crazy things that just need to be ironed out

649
00:35:32.679 --> 00:35:35.559
<v Speaker 2>and fixed. But you know, working, you know, we've talked

650
00:35:35.559 --> 00:35:37.880
<v Speaker 2>about military the mariner, but you know, the crew, the

651
00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:40.840
<v Speaker 2>graduates out of the US Marcharny Academy should be one

652
00:35:40.840 --> 00:35:43.519
<v Speaker 2>of the key pools that we're pulling out of, but

653
00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:46.159
<v Speaker 2>we're pulling less. You know, we're in single digit percentages

654
00:35:46.239 --> 00:35:48.639
<v Speaker 2>of what we're pulling out of the mariners from all

655
00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:51.519
<v Speaker 2>the state schools to go sailing. And you know, the

656
00:35:51.559 --> 00:35:54.199
<v Speaker 2>irony is MSc is throwing so much money at the

657
00:35:54.199 --> 00:35:57.079
<v Speaker 2>problem that I know of third mates coming out of

658
00:35:57.119 --> 00:36:00.119
<v Speaker 2>the state maritime schools. They go sail for MSc, they

659
00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:02.119
<v Speaker 2>have a bad experience, they can't get off for eight

660
00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:04.320
<v Speaker 2>months because they're stuck on the ship. But they've earned

661
00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:07.039
<v Speaker 2>so much money, they've paid off their student loans, and

662
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:08.760
<v Speaker 2>they don't want to go back out the sea. They're

663
00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:10.400
<v Speaker 2>fine just kind of hanging out, and they know that

664
00:36:10.519 --> 00:36:12.880
<v Speaker 2>MSc is looking for mariners, so they'll just hang out,

665
00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:15.400
<v Speaker 2>lay low, and then come back in a few months

666
00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:19.559
<v Speaker 2>and get hired again. That doesn't create a really great

667
00:36:19.599 --> 00:36:22.000
<v Speaker 2>service pool. And we haven't even talked about the fact

668
00:36:22.039 --> 00:36:25.000
<v Speaker 2>that what happens when the balloon goes up and there's

669
00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:28.440
<v Speaker 2>actually a crisis where there may be shooting, you know,

670
00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:32.400
<v Speaker 2>on the high seas, do these mariners stay? What happens

671
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:35.719
<v Speaker 2>if the crew on an MSc oiler in San Diego says,

672
00:36:35.719 --> 00:36:37.199
<v Speaker 2>you know what, I'm not going to do this. I'm

673
00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:39.000
<v Speaker 2>going to go work at a power plant. I'm going

674
00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:41.480
<v Speaker 2>to go work at Starbucks. I'm not going to do this.

675
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:46.039
<v Speaker 2>And we don't have the critical oilers and underway replenishment

676
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:48.719
<v Speaker 2>vessels that we need. This is you know, back in

677
00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:52.360
<v Speaker 2>twenty nineteen, I wrote a piece for the CNO's Histories

678
00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:55.360
<v Speaker 2>Essay contest. I got second prize because it was about logistics.

679
00:36:55.440 --> 00:36:57.920
<v Speaker 2>You never get first prize we write about logistics. But

680
00:36:58.039 --> 00:37:00.360
<v Speaker 2>I talked about the fact is, you know what if

681
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:01.559
<v Speaker 2>the you know what, if there was a war in

682
00:37:01.599 --> 00:37:04.960
<v Speaker 2>the Merchant Marine didn't come. I think that is a

683
00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:07.639
<v Speaker 2>serious issue. We need to be talking to. What is

684
00:37:07.719 --> 00:37:11.119
<v Speaker 2>Plan B if all of a sudden we don't have

685
00:37:11.239 --> 00:37:13.639
<v Speaker 2>enough crew members, if we didn't have enough oilers on

686
00:37:13.639 --> 00:37:17.039
<v Speaker 2>the East coast to handle Arley Burke destroyers on routine basis,

687
00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:19.599
<v Speaker 2>what happens when this stuff really hits the fan?

688
00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:22.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you talk about the you know, the great reset.

689
00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:25.719
<v Speaker 1>The Great Reset in many ways I think needs to

690
00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:30.840
<v Speaker 1>be the reset between the ears of policymakers and senior leaders,

691
00:37:30.920 --> 00:37:35.079
<v Speaker 1>because if you don't have what looks like to an

692
00:37:35.079 --> 00:37:40.280
<v Speaker 1>accountant as an inefficiency and a surplus during times of peace,

693
00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:45.239
<v Speaker 1>then you can't make it happen when war comes. And

694
00:37:45.400 --> 00:37:48.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, here we are in a lukewarm piece where

695
00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:51.199
<v Speaker 1>we have a lot of demands and we're at this

696
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:56.480
<v Speaker 1>step and it's I'm not sure, Well, I have my

697
00:37:56.559 --> 00:38:02.400
<v Speaker 1>suspicions as anybody's talked to budget people have, but somebody

698
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:06.760
<v Speaker 1>has managed to sell as the environment we have to

699
00:38:06.760 --> 00:38:11.119
<v Speaker 1>live in that this can be done on the cheap,

700
00:38:11.960 --> 00:38:14.960
<v Speaker 1>paying bargain basement prices you get which you pay for

701
00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:19.280
<v Speaker 1>for people, and to build it off of a view

702
00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:22.719
<v Speaker 1>of dealing with your employees that dates back to the

703
00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:26.760
<v Speaker 1>nineteen fifties, the nineteen sixties, and show me what your

704
00:38:26.760 --> 00:38:31.320
<v Speaker 1>priorities are and I could probably find out how that

705
00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:33.920
<v Speaker 1>goes with your budget. And I just did a little

706
00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:36.800
<v Speaker 1>bit of googling while while you're answering the last question,

707
00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:41.559
<v Speaker 1>and the president's twenty twenty five budget request for MARAD

708
00:38:41.559 --> 00:38:45.519
<v Speaker 1>the Maritime Administration was eight hundred and fifty nine point

709
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:48.960
<v Speaker 1>seven million, and on top of that was nine hundred

710
00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:52.280
<v Speaker 1>and seventy four million from DoD to acquire, upgrade, maintain

711
00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:55.360
<v Speaker 1>vessels and the Ready Reserve Fleet and the National Defense

712
00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:58.679
<v Speaker 1>Reserve Fleet. So if you add those two together, we

713
00:38:58.840 --> 00:39:02.320
<v Speaker 1>have what is at one point seven to one point

714
00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:08.199
<v Speaker 1>eight billion. Now, in the same budget, we spent four

715
00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:13.880
<v Speaker 1>hundred million dollars to the Jovini consultants out of Northern

716
00:39:13.960 --> 00:39:19.639
<v Speaker 1>Virginia to analyze to analyze again problem appreciation, DoD spending

717
00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:23.079
<v Speaker 1>and supply chain issues is a beautiful report with wonderful graphics.

718
00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:25.199
<v Speaker 1>I wrote about it a couple of weeks ago, splendid

719
00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:27.239
<v Speaker 1>for four hundred million. Everybody should watch it. You paid

720
00:39:27.239 --> 00:39:31.880
<v Speaker 1>for it. And we also have budgeted two point four

721
00:39:32.440 --> 00:39:37.159
<v Speaker 1>billion to Deloitte and Letouche. However, you pronounce that consultancy

722
00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:43.280
<v Speaker 1>to quote identify, build and deliver holistic solutions facing the

723
00:39:43.280 --> 00:39:48.519
<v Speaker 1>submarine workforce and industrial base unquote, which we know has issues.

724
00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:50.360
<v Speaker 1>And again going back to kind of what I mentioned

725
00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:55.719
<v Speaker 1>in the universion, we have these huge bureaucracies and mare

726
00:39:55.800 --> 00:40:00.679
<v Speaker 1>AD DoD don You know you mentioned the what was

727
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:04.079
<v Speaker 1>it five sees? None of the OCS sees are expensive.

728
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:07.480
<v Speaker 1>If you never had one on your manning document, what

729
00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:12.239
<v Speaker 1>are what are they doing? Such that in my little

730
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:16.239
<v Speaker 1>basic math, two point four billion plus four hundred million

731
00:40:16.360 --> 00:40:19.079
<v Speaker 1>is two point eight billion. We'll round it up to

732
00:40:19.119 --> 00:40:25.519
<v Speaker 1>three billion dollars, which is not quite twice, but we're

733
00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:28.760
<v Speaker 1>getting up there. More than the budget we have between

734
00:40:28.920 --> 00:40:35.000
<v Speaker 1>MARD and DoD's forces to support the ready reserve fleet.

735
00:40:35.639 --> 00:40:38.679
<v Speaker 1>The money is there to Part of the people problem

736
00:40:38.719 --> 00:40:40.719
<v Speaker 1>is we're trying to do too much with too few people,

737
00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:42.880
<v Speaker 1>so we abuse the people and the people go elsewhere

738
00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:45.599
<v Speaker 1>and we have a still smaller pool. But again going

739
00:40:45.639 --> 00:40:48.880
<v Speaker 1>back to the things I mentioned before, if money is

740
00:40:48.920 --> 00:40:52.199
<v Speaker 1>the first thing, there's money out there, it just needs

741
00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:53.920
<v Speaker 1>to be properly allocated.

742
00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:57.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, again, I think this has to do with the

743
00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:00.920
<v Speaker 2>fact that MSc is very low on the totem pole

744
00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:04.639
<v Speaker 2>when it comes to missions within it. I mean, if

745
00:41:04.679 --> 00:41:07.360
<v Speaker 2>you think about it, sobec as a one star is

746
00:41:07.400 --> 00:41:10.000
<v Speaker 2>controlling one hundred and ten ships at one time or another,

747
00:41:10.280 --> 00:41:13.239
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that makes him a larger fleet commander than

748
00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:15.880
<v Speaker 2>any of the numbered fleet commanders that there are out there.

749
00:41:16.159 --> 00:41:19.920
<v Speaker 2>And but you know he's not treated that way, and

750
00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:22.320
<v Speaker 2>none of the MSc commanders have been treated that way

751
00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:26.159
<v Speaker 2>in many ways, especially after and I know it's a

752
00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:29.480
<v Speaker 2>big point for you to Goldworder Nicholas changed everything. When

753
00:41:29.639 --> 00:41:32.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, the Navy controlled a lot more of what

754
00:41:32.199 --> 00:41:34.960
<v Speaker 2>they did than now they do, and that was a

755
00:41:34.960 --> 00:41:37.119
<v Speaker 2>big issue. And you know, if you look at the

756
00:41:37.159 --> 00:41:40.800
<v Speaker 2>way MSc was created back in nineteen forty nine, we're

757
00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:42.599
<v Speaker 2>coming up on the seventy fifth anniversary of it. On

758
00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:45.440
<v Speaker 2>October first is the big anniversary for MSc. They want

759
00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:48.239
<v Speaker 2>to celebrate this. So the great resets coming right at

760
00:41:48.280 --> 00:41:51.480
<v Speaker 2>this period of time. Their original you know trifecta. What

761
00:41:51.559 --> 00:41:54.800
<v Speaker 2>they did was sealift. They did you know, troop ships,

762
00:41:55.159 --> 00:41:57.519
<v Speaker 2>they did cargo, and they did fuel. That's what they did.

763
00:41:57.519 --> 00:41:59.840
<v Speaker 2>Those are the three things they did. And over time

764
00:41:59.840 --> 00:42:03.800
<v Speaker 2>it's morphed into this and so that now MSC's primary mission,

765
00:42:03.840 --> 00:42:07.360
<v Speaker 2>what they focus their entire time on, almost exclusively, is

766
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:11.800
<v Speaker 2>on naval support, whereas MARAD is now looking at sealift.

767
00:42:11.840 --> 00:42:13.840
<v Speaker 2>When if you look at what Marad's mission is, it's

768
00:42:13.840 --> 00:42:17.840
<v Speaker 2>supposed to be in promoting and enhancing the US merchant Marine,

769
00:42:17.880 --> 00:42:19.760
<v Speaker 2>a job I will tell you that the MERID does

770
00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:23.079
<v Speaker 2>not do very well at this time. And this comes

771
00:42:23.119 --> 00:42:25.880
<v Speaker 2>again to this whole point of sea blindness I think

772
00:42:25.880 --> 00:42:28.320
<v Speaker 2>that we have. And one of the reasons at the

773
00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:30.159
<v Speaker 2>very beginning I kind of took you through that long

774
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:34.079
<v Speaker 2>kind of history issue is because it's all intertwined, it's

775
00:42:34.119 --> 00:42:37.239
<v Speaker 2>all kind of wrapped in together, and the fact that

776
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:40.840
<v Speaker 2>we have been sea blind so much has really impacted

777
00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:43.079
<v Speaker 2>now so much so that when you look at the

778
00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:46.800
<v Speaker 2>shipbuilding programs of the twenty tens and where we are

779
00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:51.159
<v Speaker 2>today in you know, just building a frigate or trying

780
00:42:51.159 --> 00:42:54.599
<v Speaker 2>to get any platform up and running without it, you know,

781
00:42:54.760 --> 00:42:57.599
<v Speaker 2>going into massive cost overrun. CBO just came out with

782
00:42:57.639 --> 00:43:01.119
<v Speaker 2>five point one billion dollars for three coast Guard icebreakers.

783
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:04.159
<v Speaker 2>You know, this, this is all related. This is this

784
00:43:04.280 --> 00:43:06.519
<v Speaker 2>is the issue we have. It's one of the reasons

785
00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:09.719
<v Speaker 2>why in the most recent NDA you had this issue

786
00:43:09.760 --> 00:43:13.199
<v Speaker 2>for a national maritime strategy, because I think we've been

787
00:43:13.239 --> 00:43:18.519
<v Speaker 2>looking at navy strategies exclusively along with military without looking

788
00:43:18.559 --> 00:43:22.039
<v Speaker 2>at the commercial side. And you know, give me that

789
00:43:22.119 --> 00:43:23.920
<v Speaker 2>money you gave for that study, and I mean I

790
00:43:23.960 --> 00:43:25.840
<v Speaker 2>can make I can fix things right now. I mean

791
00:43:26.639 --> 00:43:28.679
<v Speaker 2>a lot of things can be fixed, you know. And

792
00:43:28.719 --> 00:43:30.840
<v Speaker 2>I think one of the big ones is leadership. Is

793
00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:35.079
<v Speaker 2>showing the leadership that number one, that MSc cares about

794
00:43:35.079 --> 00:43:37.559
<v Speaker 2>its mariners. That's what they want. You know, when that

795
00:43:37.639 --> 00:43:39.679
<v Speaker 2>ship comes back from the Red Sea, that the MSc

796
00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:42.840
<v Speaker 2>commanders on the pier, that the marid you know, administrator

797
00:43:42.880 --> 00:43:45.920
<v Speaker 2>is there, you're giving them, you know, acknowledgment, you're thanking them.

798
00:43:46.199 --> 00:43:48.559
<v Speaker 2>You're making it as big as the Secretary of the

799
00:43:48.599 --> 00:43:52.960
<v Speaker 2>Navy going on the Eisenhower and recognizing that. But more importantly,

800
00:43:53.199 --> 00:43:55.559
<v Speaker 2>you're ensuring that there's reliefs for those crews so they

801
00:43:55.559 --> 00:43:58.000
<v Speaker 2>can get off, go home and be with people, and

802
00:43:58.039 --> 00:44:01.440
<v Speaker 2>more importantly, have a life. I mean, there's quotes in

803
00:44:01.480 --> 00:44:04.679
<v Speaker 2>that story by Sam Lagron talking about the fact that

804
00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:07.360
<v Speaker 2>mariners just see you know that they all they're going

805
00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:10.159
<v Speaker 2>to get out of working for MSc is a big paycheck,

806
00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:12.239
<v Speaker 2>but they're not going to have a family life. They're

807
00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:14.440
<v Speaker 2>going to go through multiple marriages, and by the time

808
00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:17.159
<v Speaker 2>they retire, they are dead within a year or two

809
00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:19.639
<v Speaker 2>because they have nothing left to live for. It's a

810
00:44:19.679 --> 00:44:24.559
<v Speaker 2>really sad story. And you can't not help but think that, man,

811
00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:27.159
<v Speaker 2>I would quit too if I was a mariner at

812
00:44:27.159 --> 00:44:30.159
<v Speaker 2>that point. And that's going to have a detrimental effect

813
00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:33.320
<v Speaker 2>on the Navy because now twenty percent of the ships

814
00:44:33.320 --> 00:44:36.719
<v Speaker 2>in the Navy are banking on those crews.

815
00:44:37.079 --> 00:44:41.679
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I think that few people who have not been

816
00:44:41.800 --> 00:44:47.000
<v Speaker 3>a participant in the logistics force, and I will say

817
00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:51.480
<v Speaker 3>I was. I served in an AE actor in Vietnam period.

818
00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:54.840
<v Speaker 3>We deployed for eleven months, came back for four, deployed

819
00:44:54.840 --> 00:44:57.280
<v Speaker 3>for seven. We were busy, and you know, there's a demand,

820
00:44:57.920 --> 00:45:00.800
<v Speaker 3>a demand cycle for all this stuff. And if you

821
00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:03.800
<v Speaker 3>have too few ships, and we ran out of ships

822
00:45:04.039 --> 00:45:07.920
<v Speaker 3>after the Eastern Offensive back in seventy two. They were

823
00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:11.679
<v Speaker 3>bringing aes from the from the East coast because you know,

824
00:45:11.760 --> 00:45:15.400
<v Speaker 3>they knew we needed more of the logistics force there

825
00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:19.280
<v Speaker 3>then than was present when the when the North Vietnames

826
00:45:19.320 --> 00:45:23.480
<v Speaker 3>came across the border. So you know, the demand cycle

827
00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:26.360
<v Speaker 3>is what should be driving. Is that we talk about it.

828
00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:29.039
<v Speaker 3>For the carriers, we've got a problem with keeping them going,

829
00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:31.880
<v Speaker 3>and we're running. We're running the carriers into the ground.

830
00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:34.079
<v Speaker 3>We're running a lot of the destroyers into the ground,

831
00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:37.320
<v Speaker 3>and we certainly are running the combat logistics force into

832
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:40.000
<v Speaker 3>the ground. Now. As a guy who's done a few

833
00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:43.239
<v Speaker 3>on reps myself, it is it is great work. It

834
00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:45.559
<v Speaker 3>is the best ship driving you could do. And I've

835
00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:48.519
<v Speaker 3>driven destroyers to I love destroyers. You've got so much power.

836
00:45:48.519 --> 00:45:50.480
<v Speaker 3>You can't do much wrong because you can always make

837
00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:52.719
<v Speaker 3>up for it. If you've got a single screw ship

838
00:45:52.760 --> 00:45:55.239
<v Speaker 3>and you're trying to go alongside somebody, you know, then

839
00:45:55.280 --> 00:45:59.000
<v Speaker 3>there are some some white local moments, But it is

840
00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:02.199
<v Speaker 3>great fun once you're doing it. And the crews when

841
00:46:02.199 --> 00:46:05.519
<v Speaker 3>we were busy, they were really they enjoyed the UNREPP stations.

842
00:46:05.960 --> 00:46:09.000
<v Speaker 3>But you've got to sell that story, and you've got

843
00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:10.920
<v Speaker 3>to make it so that people don't think this is

844
00:46:11.159 --> 00:46:12.599
<v Speaker 3>all they're going to be. All they're going to be

845
00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:15.440
<v Speaker 3>doing for the next fifteen years is stand at the

846
00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:18.920
<v Speaker 3>same unrep station watching palettes of something go across. It's

847
00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:22.159
<v Speaker 3>got to be it's got to be something better than that.

848
00:46:22.519 --> 00:46:24.239
<v Speaker 3>And I don't you know, as we all know, money

849
00:46:24.400 --> 00:46:26.679
<v Speaker 3>is a motivator, but it's not the key motivator in

850
00:46:26.719 --> 00:46:29.039
<v Speaker 3>your life. There are so many other things that matter

851
00:46:29.119 --> 00:46:29.800
<v Speaker 3>more than money.

852
00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:34.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but you know, MSc has the opportunity. You know,

853
00:46:34.039 --> 00:46:36.840
<v Speaker 2>it's one of the few sailing organizations, for example, that

854
00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:39.760
<v Speaker 2>hire ordinary semens and wipers. These are people who have

855
00:46:39.880 --> 00:46:42.679
<v Speaker 2>literally no training, you know, minimal training coming on board.

856
00:46:43.039 --> 00:46:45.159
<v Speaker 2>They come on board and you know, one thing I

857
00:46:45.199 --> 00:46:47.360
<v Speaker 2>love about the Merchi Marine is that it's a meritocracy.

858
00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:50.239
<v Speaker 2>You can, you know, do your time in rank and

859
00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:53.360
<v Speaker 2>then you move up. And you know, I had masters,

860
00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:56.679
<v Speaker 2>you know who sailed twenty four different ships. Some of

861
00:46:56.719 --> 00:46:59.719
<v Speaker 2>them were howsepipers. They came up from the enlisted and

862
00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:04.119
<v Speaker 2>they were masters. I mean they were ship drivers, par excellent.

863
00:47:04.159 --> 00:47:07.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you could not believe what they would do

864
00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:09.880
<v Speaker 2>at a ship, and you know, that is the story

865
00:47:09.920 --> 00:47:12.480
<v Speaker 2>that MSc has to do. But again it all comes

866
00:47:12.519 --> 00:47:15.239
<v Speaker 2>to this issue where I think the Navy and MSc

867
00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:18.599
<v Speaker 2>fails in promoting their mission. You know, the job that

868
00:47:18.599 --> 00:47:21.039
<v Speaker 2>they did in the Red Sea should have been number one.

869
00:47:21.079 --> 00:47:23.920
<v Speaker 2>That should have been something that was just in your face.

870
00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:26.639
<v Speaker 2>How that doesn't get people recruiting. Hey, you can sit

871
00:47:26.679 --> 00:47:28.400
<v Speaker 2>at home and play on your video game and shoot

872
00:47:28.400 --> 00:47:30.039
<v Speaker 2>down stuff where you can come on board the Carnie

873
00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:32.480
<v Speaker 2>and actually do it. You know, that to me is

874
00:47:33.599 --> 00:47:35.679
<v Speaker 2>you know, the way you get people on and same

875
00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:38.760
<v Speaker 2>thing at MSc. It's a great opportunity. But MSc also

876
00:47:38.840 --> 00:47:41.239
<v Speaker 2>has to understand that the workforce is changing, and the

877
00:47:41.360 --> 00:47:43.199
<v Speaker 2>Navy does too. You know, I see it on a

878
00:47:43.239 --> 00:47:45.760
<v Speaker 2>college level. People are not going to stay in the

879
00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:48.199
<v Speaker 2>same job for twenty thirty years, and so you've got

880
00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:50.800
<v Speaker 2>to create jobs that you understand there's going to be

881
00:47:50.840 --> 00:47:52.519
<v Speaker 2>a short time enrollment. People are going to come in,

882
00:47:52.599 --> 00:47:54.159
<v Speaker 2>earn a lot of money and want to leave. So

883
00:47:54.199 --> 00:47:55.960
<v Speaker 2>you've got to be prepared for that, which means your

884
00:47:55.960 --> 00:47:57.960
<v Speaker 2>recruiting has got to be geared for that. Your training's

885
00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:00.320
<v Speaker 2>got to be geared for that, and we need to

886
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:03.320
<v Speaker 2>really set that up because again, one of the things

887
00:48:03.320 --> 00:48:07.159
<v Speaker 2>that is happening right now is that MSc is finding

888
00:48:07.159 --> 00:48:10.000
<v Speaker 2>itself on the short side. They're in the press, and

889
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:12.000
<v Speaker 2>they don't like being in the press. They don't like

890
00:48:12.039 --> 00:48:14.639
<v Speaker 2>this at all. They like being behind the scenes. Nobody

891
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:16.519
<v Speaker 2>in the Merchant Marine likes to talk about anything this.

892
00:48:16.679 --> 00:48:19.280
<v Speaker 2>I've learned this from three years running my program. They

893
00:48:19.280 --> 00:48:21.079
<v Speaker 2>don't like it when you talk about them because because

894
00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:23.800
<v Speaker 2>they would much rather just be behind the scenes. But

895
00:48:23.960 --> 00:48:27.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, since the global supply chain crisis, everyone's attention

896
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:30.559
<v Speaker 2>is drawn to the sea more than ever before. People

897
00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:33.480
<v Speaker 2>are interested in this, and now all of a sudden,

898
00:48:33.559 --> 00:48:36.039
<v Speaker 2>this story has hit the buttons. It's been on Fox News,

899
00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:39.519
<v Speaker 2>It's made all the rounds that you surprisingly you would

900
00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:42.679
<v Speaker 2>not expect, and that means you have to take the moment.

901
00:48:42.679 --> 00:48:44.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm a firm believer that when you make the news,

902
00:48:44.960 --> 00:48:47.079
<v Speaker 2>you have to run with it. And this should be

903
00:48:47.079 --> 00:48:50.239
<v Speaker 2>the moment that we start talking about what this reset's

904
00:48:50.239 --> 00:48:51.920
<v Speaker 2>going to do because people are paying attention.

905
00:48:53.760 --> 00:48:57.559
<v Speaker 1>I agree with you. I share your frustration because there

906
00:48:57.639 --> 00:49:00.639
<v Speaker 1>is a great story to be told and you could

907
00:49:00.639 --> 00:49:02.639
<v Speaker 1>hear it a little bit when Mark was talking about

908
00:49:03.159 --> 00:49:07.960
<v Speaker 1>his sailors in unrep uh, it's it's exciting, the sound,

909
00:49:08.159 --> 00:49:11.519
<v Speaker 1>the smells, and again, you know, we have a huge

910
00:49:11.599 --> 00:49:16.039
<v Speaker 1>public affairs bureaucracy and I'm not sure what they're they're doing,

911
00:49:16.199 --> 00:49:21.719
<v Speaker 1>but there was just no visibility. You've got more positive

912
00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:26.960
<v Speaker 1>press on showing and encouraging and putting being just a

913
00:49:26.960 --> 00:49:30.960
<v Speaker 1>plain old sailor in such a great positive light. Was

914
00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:34.679
<v Speaker 1>done on a Twitter account by the skipper of the

915
00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:38.960
<v Speaker 1>Eisenhower of childa hill over there, where a lot of

916
00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:44.960
<v Speaker 1>his content was just you know, here's m M three Schmucatelli,

917
00:49:45.320 --> 00:49:48.840
<v Speaker 1>who's we will allowed escape from the reactor compartment to

918
00:49:48.920 --> 00:49:51.840
<v Speaker 1>come up to the bridge to have a cookie. Here's

919
00:49:51.880 --> 00:49:57.039
<v Speaker 1>her background and it you know. Then there's a picture

920
00:49:57.079 --> 00:49:59.760
<v Speaker 1>that's worthy of a pulitzer that one of his people

921
00:49:59.800 --> 00:50:03.360
<v Speaker 1>put up about one of his aviation Bosn's mate covered

922
00:50:03.400 --> 00:50:06.079
<v Speaker 1>with chains. You know, that type of stuff that if

923
00:50:06.079 --> 00:50:10.519
<v Speaker 1>you're sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, twenty year old person who

924
00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:14.119
<v Speaker 1>perhaps doesn't want to go to university for whatever reason

925
00:50:14.360 --> 00:50:19.119
<v Speaker 1>and is looking for something else, and there is Unfortunately,

926
00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:22.159
<v Speaker 1>we've created things and you've brought up COVID that the

927
00:50:22.199 --> 00:50:24.840
<v Speaker 1>minute you put something out like that, there are people

928
00:50:24.840 --> 00:50:28.440
<v Speaker 1>who have other stories that they'll jump right on and share.

929
00:50:28.559 --> 00:50:32.400
<v Speaker 1>But you can't counter the narrative unless you engage in

930
00:50:32.480 --> 00:50:37.280
<v Speaker 1>the conversation before. And there's got to be somebody, some

931
00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:40.000
<v Speaker 1>mariner out there who could be the merchant marine version

932
00:50:40.159 --> 00:50:44.679
<v Speaker 1>of Childer Hill, because there are great stories out there,

933
00:50:44.719 --> 00:50:48.920
<v Speaker 1>and you talk about the changing workforce, people don't people

934
00:50:48.960 --> 00:50:52.679
<v Speaker 1>also want to be part of something. They want to

935
00:50:52.719 --> 00:50:55.960
<v Speaker 1>be involved in something that's a little greater than themselves,

936
00:50:56.000 --> 00:51:00.360
<v Speaker 1>something that's different than the normal experience of those people

937
00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:03.840
<v Speaker 1>that they grew up with. And here you can go,

938
00:51:04.159 --> 00:51:08.239
<v Speaker 1>how many years has it been since the Easter offensive? There,

939
00:51:08.400 --> 00:51:12.320
<v Speaker 1>Mark of we look at that forty two years. It's

940
00:51:12.360 --> 00:51:15.239
<v Speaker 1>been more than a week. But you could hear in

941
00:51:15.440 --> 00:51:19.239
<v Speaker 1>Mark's voice and in your head you could almost see

942
00:51:19.239 --> 00:51:22.239
<v Speaker 1>the face of his sailors and the job they were doing.

943
00:51:22.840 --> 00:51:25.920
<v Speaker 1>Because it is a great story. Sal But I just

944
00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:31.519
<v Speaker 1>why we cannot tell that story except almost by accident

945
00:51:31.960 --> 00:51:36.320
<v Speaker 1>or by individual initiative by a very small number of people.

946
00:51:37.960 --> 00:51:41.039
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. There, that's again part of the CNO's reset.

947
00:51:41.239 --> 00:51:43.559
<v Speaker 1>It's got to be within her ears and on her

948
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:45.960
<v Speaker 1>staff but there are other things that need to be

949
00:51:46.039 --> 00:51:48.599
<v Speaker 1>reset besides just seven hundred sailors coming ashore.

950
00:51:49.320 --> 00:51:50.920
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no. And when you think about that, you

951
00:51:50.920 --> 00:51:53.320
<v Speaker 2>know what Mark talked about with these friendship is a

952
00:51:53.320 --> 00:51:56.280
<v Speaker 2>great one because you know, the other issue here is

953
00:51:56.519 --> 00:51:59.679
<v Speaker 2>a fundamental one for the combatant commanders and how we

954
00:51:59.719 --> 00:52:02.800
<v Speaker 2>would wage a peer to peer conflict today because one

955
00:52:02.840 --> 00:52:05.599
<v Speaker 2>of the things we did became so dependent on MSc

956
00:52:05.679 --> 00:52:08.719
<v Speaker 2>and the civilian mariners that we decided to, you know,

957
00:52:08.840 --> 00:52:12.239
<v Speaker 2>morph together what were referred to as station you know,

958
00:52:12.280 --> 00:52:15.159
<v Speaker 2>station ships and shuttle ships. You had the station ships

959
00:52:15.159 --> 00:52:18.039
<v Speaker 2>which were usually those were the ones Mark sailed on.

960
00:52:18.400 --> 00:52:20.320
<v Speaker 2>Those are the ones with Navy crews on board. They

961
00:52:20.360 --> 00:52:24.079
<v Speaker 2>were providing the direct underway replenishment to the combatants out

962
00:52:24.119 --> 00:52:27.599
<v Speaker 2>there at Yankee Station or up in the Persian Gulf.

963
00:52:27.719 --> 00:52:29.880
<v Speaker 2>You know, that's that's what they did. And then MSc

964
00:52:29.920 --> 00:52:31.840
<v Speaker 2>would do the shuttle ships. They would run the ships

965
00:52:32.159 --> 00:52:35.320
<v Speaker 2>from the depots, from the from the ports and up there,

966
00:52:35.400 --> 00:52:37.760
<v Speaker 2>and you know, they would still do undwaar replenishment with

967
00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:40.599
<v Speaker 2>other vessels, but they weren't the primary well, you know,

968
00:52:40.639 --> 00:52:42.880
<v Speaker 2>in the nineties and you know, post Cold War the

969
00:52:42.920 --> 00:52:44.960
<v Speaker 2>two thousands, we got rid of that. We just morphed

970
00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:48.280
<v Speaker 2>it all into one big thing, so that now shuttle

971
00:52:48.280 --> 00:52:50.599
<v Speaker 2>and station ships are all the same thing. We got

972
00:52:50.719 --> 00:52:54.039
<v Speaker 2>rid of the underway, you know, consolidation tankers, where we

973
00:52:54.119 --> 00:52:56.039
<v Speaker 2>used to have a big, huge tanker fleet in MSc

974
00:52:56.840 --> 00:52:59.679
<v Speaker 2>for commercial tankers. We got rid of that. And you

975
00:52:59.679 --> 00:53:02.480
<v Speaker 2>know now we're waking back up today again, especially with

976
00:53:02.480 --> 00:53:05.760
<v Speaker 2>the loss of Redhill. You know, we see MSc relearning

977
00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:08.119
<v Speaker 2>the idea of console tankers. We see the start of

978
00:53:08.119 --> 00:53:12.079
<v Speaker 2>a tanker security program, getting ten tankers commercial tankers out there.

979
00:53:12.119 --> 00:53:14.599
<v Speaker 2>They can do it. There are fundamental flaws. I could

980
00:53:14.599 --> 00:53:16.880
<v Speaker 2>talk to you about the TSP, but I don't want

981
00:53:16.880 --> 00:53:19.239
<v Speaker 2>to eat up the time talking about that. But you

982
00:53:19.280 --> 00:53:21.880
<v Speaker 2>know this means that, you know, we're used to fighting

983
00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:26.159
<v Speaker 2>wars close to supply heads. You know, Korea, we had Japan, Vietnam,

984
00:53:26.199 --> 00:53:29.760
<v Speaker 2>we had the Philippines, Persian Golf, we had Bahrain and Oman.

985
00:53:30.760 --> 00:53:32.880
<v Speaker 2>If you've got to go across the Pacific, and I

986
00:53:32.960 --> 00:53:35.400
<v Speaker 2>know you love to put that out there, so that

987
00:53:35.840 --> 00:53:38.039
<v Speaker 2>the great graphic of the Google Earth showing the Pacific,

988
00:53:38.119 --> 00:53:41.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's seven thousand miles. It's the tyranny of distance.

989
00:53:42.159 --> 00:53:44.760
<v Speaker 2>This is going to be a big problem, and we

990
00:53:44.800 --> 00:53:47.639
<v Speaker 2>are going to need the merchant Marine, We're going to

991
00:53:47.679 --> 00:53:50.679
<v Speaker 2>need military Sealift Command. There is no way we do

992
00:53:50.840 --> 00:53:54.360
<v Speaker 2>this with just what we have out there. If everybody

993
00:53:54.400 --> 00:53:56.880
<v Speaker 2>thinks we're going to fight, you know, the Chinese off

994
00:53:56.920 --> 00:53:59.719
<v Speaker 2>Taiwan with the seven fleet that's out there in westpac

995
00:53:59.800 --> 00:54:01.199
<v Speaker 2>then and you know, you need to read about the

996
00:54:01.199 --> 00:54:03.400
<v Speaker 2>Asiatic Fleet nineteen forty two and see how that went,

997
00:54:03.960 --> 00:54:06.199
<v Speaker 2>you know, when there was nothing coming to back them up,

998
00:54:06.719 --> 00:54:09.519
<v Speaker 2>because that's what they're kind of setting themselves up for

999
00:54:09.559 --> 00:54:10.519
<v Speaker 2>here in this scenario.

1000
00:54:11.000 --> 00:54:14.360
<v Speaker 3>I want to command people, you you to watch your

1001
00:54:16.760 --> 00:54:19.519
<v Speaker 3>three parts so far, three or five part series on

1002
00:54:19.599 --> 00:54:22.920
<v Speaker 3>the history of MSc. And one of the things that

1003
00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:25.760
<v Speaker 3>particularly caught me was I was as I was watching

1004
00:54:25.760 --> 00:54:28.440
<v Speaker 3>that was you have this table that you put up

1005
00:54:28.480 --> 00:54:31.840
<v Speaker 3>about the difference between because you've done it, the history

1006
00:54:31.880 --> 00:54:35.280
<v Speaker 3>of MSc from it like to the Korean War. I

1007
00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:37.000
<v Speaker 3>think that was maybe that was the first or second

1008
00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:40.119
<v Speaker 3>anyway Korean Vietnam you put together, but the difference in

1009
00:54:40.239 --> 00:54:44.320
<v Speaker 3>the amount of shipping between World War Two and the

1010
00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:48.639
<v Speaker 3>Korean War you put you put this this this graphic

1011
00:54:48.679 --> 00:54:51.039
<v Speaker 3>of it. I'm looking at that going that is insane people?

1012
00:54:51.079 --> 00:54:56.559
<v Speaker 3>Did people not know that? It was a huge jump

1013
00:54:56.840 --> 00:54:59.280
<v Speaker 3>from what was required across the Pacific and World War

1014
00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:01.719
<v Speaker 3>two to what was word for the Korean War.

1015
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:05.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh and Vietnam was even more and the Persian gone.

1016
00:55:06.039 --> 00:55:08.360
<v Speaker 2>The next episode I have is on underway replenishment. That's

1017
00:55:08.400 --> 00:55:09.960
<v Speaker 2>one of the reasons why the episodes don't come yet,

1018
00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:13.639
<v Speaker 2>because everything's been changing so much. So I hadn't put it.

1019
00:55:13.719 --> 00:55:15.920
<v Speaker 2>I had I've put it together, and I had taken

1020
00:55:15.960 --> 00:55:18.639
<v Speaker 2>apart and do it again. And then the fifth episode

1021
00:55:18.719 --> 00:55:20.320
<v Speaker 2>is going to be talking about the Persian Gulf War.

1022
00:55:20.800 --> 00:55:25.119
<v Speaker 2>And what becomes clear is is just the amount of gear,

1023
00:55:25.239 --> 00:55:29.440
<v Speaker 2>the mountains of supplies, fuel is just increase. And again,

1024
00:55:29.800 --> 00:55:32.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, this is something and I'm always amazed myself,

1025
00:55:32.920 --> 00:55:35.000
<v Speaker 2>John Conrad and a few others who who follow this

1026
00:55:35.119 --> 00:55:36.920
<v Speaker 2>are always amazed. When someone chimes says like, oh, we'll

1027
00:55:36.960 --> 00:55:39.039
<v Speaker 2>just fly the stuff in, It's like, are you nuts?

1028
00:55:39.079 --> 00:55:41.800
<v Speaker 2>It's like, do you not understand the tonnage we're talking

1029
00:55:41.800 --> 00:55:46.000
<v Speaker 2>about here? The amount of cargo is just mind boddeling

1030
00:55:46.039 --> 00:55:48.239
<v Speaker 2>you're going to need in a conflict, and we should

1031
00:55:48.239 --> 00:55:50.840
<v Speaker 2>be seeing that from what's happening in Ukraine and Russia

1032
00:55:50.920 --> 00:55:55.039
<v Speaker 2>right now in terms of the expenditure of weapons. Everything

1033
00:55:55.159 --> 00:55:58.039
<v Speaker 2>is just demonstrates that to us. And I think the

1034
00:55:58.079 --> 00:56:00.880
<v Speaker 2>Red Sea is another good one. Or that I mean

1035
00:56:01.280 --> 00:56:04.639
<v Speaker 2>it took a full fledged effort. It took the US

1036
00:56:04.639 --> 00:56:08.159
<v Speaker 2>and a supply, the patuxentt the Kanawa, the Airhard, the

1037
00:56:08.199 --> 00:56:11.519
<v Speaker 2>Amelia air Hard, and a console tanker to keep one

1038
00:56:11.639 --> 00:56:16.239
<v Speaker 2>carrier battlegroup operational in what I would argue is probably

1039
00:56:16.360 --> 00:56:19.239
<v Speaker 2>not as intensive an air combat situation as you would

1040
00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:22.360
<v Speaker 2>get off the West with Western Pacific, off the coast

1041
00:56:22.360 --> 00:56:25.039
<v Speaker 2>of China. And so if it took that much to

1042
00:56:25.119 --> 00:56:28.079
<v Speaker 2>keep a carrier battle group supply, what's our battle plan

1043
00:56:28.199 --> 00:56:31.000
<v Speaker 2>going forward? Because I gotta tell you right now, you know,

1044
00:56:31.119 --> 00:56:32.880
<v Speaker 2>you look at some of those images of the ships

1045
00:56:32.880 --> 00:56:35.440
<v Speaker 2>coming in. You know, they're they're warned that they are

1046
00:56:35.559 --> 00:56:39.559
<v Speaker 2>not getting the preventive maintenance they need, The crews are

1047
00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:43.280
<v Speaker 2>getting battered. And again you're relying on those to provide

1048
00:56:43.320 --> 00:56:46.360
<v Speaker 2>a key lynchpin for not just the Navy, but for

1049
00:56:46.440 --> 00:56:50.639
<v Speaker 2>the entire defense strategy of the United States.

1050
00:56:50.880 --> 00:56:54.440
<v Speaker 1>Being that we just can't, unfortunately, because our industrial base

1051
00:56:54.519 --> 00:56:57.400
<v Speaker 1>is so narrow. You made the comment earlier about people

1052
00:56:57.480 --> 00:57:02.679
<v Speaker 1>were talking about the h the job quote, jobs program

1053
00:57:02.800 --> 00:57:06.239
<v Speaker 1>for allso which I don't agree with either, but that's

1054
00:57:06.280 --> 00:57:09.480
<v Speaker 1>okay with me. You know, it takes a while to

1055
00:57:09.519 --> 00:57:12.480
<v Speaker 1>make a welder. Just ask our friends up at if

1056
00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:15.880
<v Speaker 1>in caanty areas they're trying to build the constellation. That's okay.

1057
00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:17.960
<v Speaker 1>We can have jobs programs or we wait for everythings

1058
00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:21.639
<v Speaker 1>come online. But if you look at the Davidson window

1059
00:57:21.960 --> 00:57:25.840
<v Speaker 1>and you're exactly right about and you don't have to

1060
00:57:25.840 --> 00:57:28.320
<v Speaker 1>be a genius to put in your red hat and

1061
00:57:28.440 --> 00:57:34.079
<v Speaker 1>to find how the People's Republic of China have laid

1062
00:57:34.119 --> 00:57:37.199
<v Speaker 1>some splendid little tiger traps in the Pacific, that'll make

1063
00:57:37.199 --> 00:57:40.000
<v Speaker 1>our logistics an even greater challenge it's already going to be.

1064
00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:43.719
<v Speaker 1>But if we got the right people, if we got

1065
00:57:43.719 --> 00:57:47.000
<v Speaker 1>the right money, and we got the right messaging to

1066
00:57:47.079 --> 00:57:49.320
<v Speaker 1>start to slowly turn the bow in the direction we

1067
00:57:49.360 --> 00:57:52.760
<v Speaker 1>wanted to go in to move that up. Is it

1068
00:57:52.840 --> 00:57:56.480
<v Speaker 1>time to look again at something that we just briefly

1069
00:57:56.519 --> 00:57:59.119
<v Speaker 1>mentioned at the start of the show. Is a lot

1070
00:57:59.159 --> 00:58:03.960
<v Speaker 1>of the USNN used to be uss? Is there anything

1071
00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:07.239
<v Speaker 1>to be gained to move the curve in an attractive

1072
00:58:07.280 --> 00:58:12.840
<v Speaker 1>direction by looking at reverting back at least some of

1073
00:58:12.880 --> 00:58:16.360
<v Speaker 1>the ships to USS instead of USNS. I.

1074
00:58:16.480 --> 00:58:18.519
<v Speaker 2>You know, one of the things I've talked about is,

1075
00:58:18.559 --> 00:58:20.760
<v Speaker 2>you know two of the AOEs supply an Arctic are

1076
00:58:20.760 --> 00:58:23.039
<v Speaker 2>over at MSc, but Rain the air and bridge or

1077
00:58:23.079 --> 00:58:25.280
<v Speaker 2>laid up on the West coast. I think they should

1078
00:58:25.320 --> 00:58:27.800
<v Speaker 2>be switched over. I think they should have a USS

1079
00:58:27.920 --> 00:58:29.880
<v Speaker 2>crew on and it let me be clear, the reason

1080
00:58:29.960 --> 00:58:32.719
<v Speaker 2>I want a USS crew on them is because we

1081
00:58:32.760 --> 00:58:36.360
<v Speaker 2>have created a kind of a bipolar relationship. We have,

1082
00:58:36.599 --> 00:58:40.519
<v Speaker 2>you know, bifurcated people's knowledge. You know, Mark had had

1083
00:58:40.639 --> 00:58:42.559
<v Speaker 2>knowledge of what it's like to work on an AE.

1084
00:58:42.719 --> 00:58:45.239
<v Speaker 2>He went on a staff. He had that knowledge. And

1085
00:58:45.280 --> 00:58:47.159
<v Speaker 2>if you look at a lot of the past commanders,

1086
00:58:47.159 --> 00:58:49.239
<v Speaker 2>they had that knowledge. They did their time and tour

1087
00:58:49.480 --> 00:58:53.199
<v Speaker 2>on an underway replenishment vessel, so they came to appreciate

1088
00:58:53.280 --> 00:58:57.639
<v Speaker 2>logistics and what it took. That's not out there right now.

1089
00:58:57.639 --> 00:59:00.000
<v Speaker 2>Everyone's on the receiving end, they're not on the delivery

1090
00:59:00.239 --> 00:59:03.679
<v Speaker 2>end of it. And I think that is really playing

1091
00:59:03.719 --> 00:59:06.679
<v Speaker 2>a factor in a lot of command decisions out there.

1092
00:59:07.039 --> 00:59:10.159
<v Speaker 2>And again, aoees you can put the full defense suite

1093
00:59:10.159 --> 00:59:12.400
<v Speaker 2>back on board. You can put all the sea rams

1094
00:59:12.400 --> 00:59:15.360
<v Speaker 2>and sea whizzes on them and get them out there.

1095
00:59:15.440 --> 00:59:17.480
<v Speaker 2>You know, we can build a new generation of AoE

1096
00:59:17.559 --> 00:59:19.480
<v Speaker 2>s out there. You can mark some of the aos

1097
00:59:19.519 --> 00:59:21.960
<v Speaker 2>for that. I think we can go back to where

1098
00:59:21.960 --> 00:59:24.440
<v Speaker 2>we were kind of in the nineties and two thousands

1099
00:59:24.440 --> 00:59:27.280
<v Speaker 2>with a mix between them. You don't need, you know,

1100
00:59:27.320 --> 00:59:30.000
<v Speaker 2>a US Navy crew probably on an AoE operating off

1101
00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:32.000
<v Speaker 2>the east and west coast, because again, you can do

1102
00:59:32.039 --> 00:59:35.360
<v Speaker 2>that with a civilian crew. They can provide the refresher

1103
00:59:35.400 --> 00:59:37.800
<v Speaker 2>training that's needed, they can surge up, they can provide

1104
00:59:37.840 --> 00:59:41.360
<v Speaker 2>the back fuel that shuttle ship that is really required.

1105
00:59:41.719 --> 00:59:44.000
<v Speaker 2>But most importantly, you know, it'd be great to have

1106
00:59:44.039 --> 00:59:47.760
<v Speaker 2>a senior officer, you know, a captain commanding an AoE

1107
00:59:47.880 --> 00:59:50.519
<v Speaker 2>and then becomes a battlegroup commander, goes on to be

1108
00:59:50.559 --> 00:59:53.599
<v Speaker 2>a fleet commander, goes on to staff. They understand them

1109
00:59:53.639 --> 00:59:56.800
<v Speaker 2>that logistics and I think, you know, this is the

1110
00:59:56.840 --> 00:59:59.079
<v Speaker 2>only area in the Navy where we don't put the

1111
00:59:59.119 --> 01:00:01.840
<v Speaker 2>people who are doing the job in charge of it.

1112
01:00:02.119 --> 01:00:04.159
<v Speaker 2>You know, seals are in charge of seals, some mariners

1113
01:00:04.159 --> 01:00:06.400
<v Speaker 2>in charge of some mariners, aviators in charge of aviors.

1114
01:00:06.400 --> 01:00:10.440
<v Speaker 2>Why why is Chowda Hill the captain of Eisenhower's cluss.

1115
01:00:10.480 --> 01:00:12.840
<v Speaker 2>He was a backseater. He was an he two guy.

1116
01:00:13.239 --> 01:00:15.960
<v Speaker 2>You know, you know he's not a swell, he's an aviator.

1117
01:00:16.000 --> 01:00:17.960
<v Speaker 2>Why do you put an aviator on there? Because aviators

1118
01:00:18.039 --> 01:00:22.639
<v Speaker 2>understand how to run carriers? Well, you know who understands logistics.

1119
01:00:22.679 --> 01:00:25.840
<v Speaker 2>No one's putting supply officers in charge of fleets and

1120
01:00:25.880 --> 01:00:28.199
<v Speaker 2>commands out there. They should, in my opinion, because they

1121
01:00:28.280 --> 01:00:31.519
<v Speaker 2>understand logistics. And so I think it's really we start

1122
01:00:31.559 --> 01:00:35.559
<v Speaker 2>rethinking the way we're doing things out there. And again,

1123
01:00:35.599 --> 01:00:37.360
<v Speaker 2>this is going to take a big discussion. I think

1124
01:00:37.400 --> 01:00:39.400
<v Speaker 2>it's time for us to have one of those big

1125
01:00:39.400 --> 01:00:42.360
<v Speaker 2>discussions about not just the size of the navy we have,

1126
01:00:42.440 --> 01:00:44.199
<v Speaker 2>but what do we want that navy to look like?

1127
01:00:44.519 --> 01:00:47.440
<v Speaker 2>Do we want one fifth of the US fleet to

1128
01:00:47.519 --> 01:00:50.639
<v Speaker 2>be crewed by civilians out there? I'm not trying to short,

1129
01:00:51.039 --> 01:00:53.239
<v Speaker 2>you know, cut MSS jobs. I think there's a lot

1130
01:00:53.239 --> 01:00:56.239
<v Speaker 2>of things that MSc mariners can do and should do,

1131
01:00:57.199 --> 01:01:00.519
<v Speaker 2>But you know is that the main job. Probably one

1132
01:01:00.559 --> 01:01:04.159
<v Speaker 2>that I think we can talk about sharing is something

1133
01:01:04.239 --> 01:01:05.719
<v Speaker 2>like that recruing the aoees.

1134
01:01:06.239 --> 01:01:09.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think that's a great idea, And trust me,

1135
01:01:09.039 --> 01:01:11.960
<v Speaker 3>you don't need as as going on board as a

1136
01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:14.440
<v Speaker 3>young officer, you know, it doesn't take you long to

1137
01:01:14.440 --> 01:01:16.880
<v Speaker 3>get up to speed and the operations of a of

1138
01:01:16.480 --> 01:01:21.519
<v Speaker 3>a of a combat logistics for ship. And the only

1139
01:01:21.559 --> 01:01:24.320
<v Speaker 3>thing you need is somebody with enough nerve to take

1140
01:01:24.400 --> 01:01:28.079
<v Speaker 3>a large ship and put it one hundred and fifty

1141
01:01:28.119 --> 01:01:30.639
<v Speaker 3>feet away from another yard ship and not and not

1142
01:01:30.760 --> 01:01:32.400
<v Speaker 3>lose his nerve. And I will say to you.

1143
01:01:32.480 --> 01:01:34.639
<v Speaker 2>But you appreciate you appreciate it more. And you know

1144
01:01:34.639 --> 01:01:37.079
<v Speaker 2>you put a blue and gold crew on those four vessels,

1145
01:01:37.079 --> 01:01:38.840
<v Speaker 2>you can keep them. They can be the ones deployed

1146
01:01:38.880 --> 01:01:40.360
<v Speaker 2>with the forward carrier groups. I think you get a

1147
01:01:40.400 --> 01:01:40.719
<v Speaker 2>lot out.

1148
01:01:41.159 --> 01:01:42.840
<v Speaker 3>I agree with one hundred percent. That was one of

1149
01:01:42.880 --> 01:01:45.599
<v Speaker 3>the best skippers I had on any ship was a

1150
01:01:46.039 --> 01:01:50.679
<v Speaker 3>King's point grad and he, you know, he taught me

1151
01:01:50.880 --> 01:01:54.360
<v Speaker 3>a lot about ship handling. And you know, and especially

1152
01:01:54.440 --> 01:01:57.480
<v Speaker 3>when you've got there are limitations on those large ships,

1153
01:01:57.679 --> 01:01:59.800
<v Speaker 3>but you have word to deal with that. And once

1154
01:01:59.800 --> 01:02:02.000
<v Speaker 3>you do that, you can you can drive anything anywhere.

1155
01:02:02.719 --> 01:02:04.559
<v Speaker 2>Well, just imagine if you had a fort skylo grid

1156
01:02:04.599 --> 01:02:06.400
<v Speaker 2>on there. You're even more amazed.

1157
01:02:09.960 --> 01:02:13.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, sal we've we've run the hour and plus a

1158
01:02:13.360 --> 01:02:17.400
<v Speaker 1>few more. Really appreciate you again, taking time today to

1159
01:02:17.480 --> 01:02:21.079
<v Speaker 1>talk about a subject that I know everybody here is

1160
01:02:21.119 --> 01:02:23.920
<v Speaker 1>really passionate about, and it was nice to see that,

1161
01:02:24.119 --> 01:02:26.840
<v Speaker 1>at least a little bit, it's broken above the background

1162
01:02:26.840 --> 01:02:30.519
<v Speaker 1>noise and we'll get more attention for the listeners if

1163
01:02:30.519 --> 01:02:32.800
<v Speaker 1>they're if they're slow off the start and they aren't

1164
01:02:32.880 --> 01:02:35.239
<v Speaker 1>already tracking you, where's a good place for them to

1165
01:02:35.679 --> 01:02:38.719
<v Speaker 1>keep an eye out for you? And what can they

1166
01:02:38.719 --> 01:02:41.760
<v Speaker 1>look forward to on your next few episodes over at

1167
01:02:41.760 --> 01:02:43.480
<v Speaker 1>what's going on with shippings on YouTube?

1168
01:02:43.920 --> 01:02:46.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Well, I mean, as you said right there, you know,

1169
01:02:46.079 --> 01:02:48.159
<v Speaker 2>check me out on YouTube what's going on with shipping?

1170
01:02:48.639 --> 01:02:52.719
<v Speaker 2>Posting videos every couple of days here. I follow obviously

1171
01:02:52.719 --> 01:02:57.400
<v Speaker 2>commercial shipping the largest segment, but also cover that intersection

1172
01:02:57.519 --> 01:03:00.559
<v Speaker 2>between commercial shipping and the military. I'm hoping to get

1173
01:03:00.559 --> 01:03:03.440
<v Speaker 2>those last two episodes out again. MSc is celebrating its

1174
01:03:03.440 --> 01:03:07.719
<v Speaker 2>seventy fifth anniversary here on October one, trying to put

1175
01:03:07.760 --> 01:03:10.440
<v Speaker 2>an article together on the history of that to get

1176
01:03:10.440 --> 01:03:14.079
<v Speaker 2>out either in the Proceedings or Naval History here. Also

1177
01:03:14.119 --> 01:03:17.119
<v Speaker 2>doing an article on the role of the Red Sea

1178
01:03:17.320 --> 01:03:20.480
<v Speaker 2>and the impact that has. In between all that, I'm

1179
01:03:20.519 --> 01:03:24.000
<v Speaker 2>working on trying to work on my book on Military

1180
01:03:24.039 --> 01:03:27.159
<v Speaker 2>Sealift during the First World War and the role the

1181
01:03:27.280 --> 01:03:30.159
<v Speaker 2>Navy and the Merchant Marine played, and that my plan

1182
01:03:30.280 --> 01:03:33.440
<v Speaker 2>is to cover that do World War Two and also

1183
01:03:33.760 --> 01:03:35.920
<v Speaker 2>finish up a book on the history of the Military

1184
01:03:35.920 --> 01:03:38.480
<v Speaker 2>Sealift Command, because I think it's an amazing organization. You know,

1185
01:03:38.880 --> 01:03:40.719
<v Speaker 2>I want everyone to be clear. I love that organization.

1186
01:03:40.760 --> 01:03:42.519
<v Speaker 2>It's one of my favorites. I met my wife on

1187
01:03:42.559 --> 01:03:45.679
<v Speaker 2>board the hospital ship Comfort. I think it is far

1188
01:03:45.800 --> 01:03:49.159
<v Speaker 2>none one of the most unheralded organizations that's out there.

1189
01:03:49.320 --> 01:03:52.360
<v Speaker 2>I think it's just so unique and the job it

1190
01:03:52.400 --> 01:03:56.280
<v Speaker 2>does is fantastic, and it really pains me when there's

1191
01:03:56.360 --> 01:03:58.519
<v Speaker 2>issues with it, and I think that's one of the

1192
01:03:58.519 --> 01:04:00.840
<v Speaker 2>reasons I get so high up on my soapbox. Plus

1193
01:04:00.840 --> 01:04:02.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm a little short, so it always helps me. It'll be

1194
01:04:02.360 --> 01:04:02.760
<v Speaker 2>a little bit.

1195
01:04:02.719 --> 01:04:05.519
<v Speaker 1>Taller, would have it any other way. Thanks a lot,

1196
01:04:05.559 --> 01:04:06.639
<v Speaker 1>sal look forward next time.

1197
01:04:06.719 --> 01:04:09.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, thanks a lot. So it's been great talking to you, Ken.

1198
01:04:09.639 --> 01:04:12.119
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for having me, guys, and thank you everybody for

1199
01:04:12.199 --> 01:04:14.440
<v Speaker 1>joining us for another edition of mid Rats. And until

1200
01:04:14.440 --> 01:04:31.280
<v Speaker 1>next time. I hope you have a great Navy day. Cheers.

1201
01:04:32.480 --> 01:04:38.320
<v Speaker 4>Want to marry me and a friend of Cody for

1202
01:04:38.599 --> 01:04:53.400
<v Speaker 4>your being to blame me, sir Folding. It's a long way.

1203
01:04:53.639 --> 01:05:00.880
<v Speaker 4>It's a long way. It's a long way the army

1204
01:05:01.840 --> 01:05:08.719
<v Speaker 4>to the Queen, and gob thick on it.

1205
01:05:10.639 --> 01:05:13.159
<v Speaker 3>Farewell, listen, well.

1206
01:05:14.159 --> 01:05:18.280
<v Speaker 4>It's a long long way to get the ray. But

1207
01:05:18.760 --> 01:05:23.639
<v Speaker 4>my wi, my bloom blo