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Speaker 2: Now, PW Torch and Speaker bring you the Wide Keller
Speaker 2: Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for this week's Interview Classic
Speaker 2: where Wade Keller Interview is one of pro Wrestling's newsmakers.
Speaker 1: Five years ago. This week I brought on as a
Speaker 1: guest ex WWEE Creative Team member Matt McCarthy, a frequent
Speaker 1: guest on the Way Keller prog Wrestling podcast, and we
Speaker 1: always talk about a wide variety of aspects of pro wrestling,
Speaker 1: and in this episode we hit a variety of them,
Speaker 1: including the cinematic style matches that WWE had turned to
Speaker 1: during the pandemic, and Mett McCarthy, who, by the way,
Speaker 1: is a professional stand up comedian. He's been on Conan
Speaker 1: O'Brien and many commercials over the years, but also worked
Speaker 1: behind the scenes of DEBI to be in a big
Speaker 1: progressing fan, provided his insight into WWE's booking approach from
Speaker 1: his experience working there and observing them for a very
Speaker 1: long time for each of the scheduled matches on the
Speaker 1: upcoming Horror Show at Extreme Rules pay per view, I
Speaker 1: had kind of forgotten about that. He also talks about
Speaker 1: the booking strategy going into the Drew mcintarytell Zigler match,
Speaker 1: the I for an I match with Roy Mysterio and
Speaker 1: Seth rollins a Paula Cruise against MVP Oscar against Sasha
Speaker 1: Banks for the Raw title, and also Bailey versus Nicky
Speaker 1: Cross for the SmackDown title. And then in the previously
Speaker 1: VP exclusive after show portion, we talked about the AW
Speaker 1: versus NXT battle to date so far less than a
Speaker 1: year in with a focus on aw's production values in
Speaker 1: grading their presentation of several of their top stars. So
Speaker 1: a wide ranging interview here with Matt McCarthy hope you enjoyed.
Speaker 3: It.
Speaker 1: Originally dropped on July sixteenth, twenty twenty and it is
Speaker 1: today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling podcast Interbey Classic for Thursday,
Speaker 1: July seventeenth, twenty twenty five. Cinematic wrestling is back to
Speaker 1: Sunday at Extreme Rules, Horror Show or Horror Show Extreme Rules,
Speaker 1: take your pick. The swamp match. Matt, Do you have
Speaker 1: high expectations for this and where are you on this
Speaker 1: this decision to do more cinematic wrestling, especially on the
Speaker 1: part of WWE during this pandemic.
Speaker 3: Oh god, well, I love it. I love the cinematic wrestling.
Speaker 3: I mean I loved, you know, the Hardy Compound when
Speaker 3: when that was happening years ago, I loved, you know,
Speaker 3: I well, what was the one it was like it
Speaker 3: was it was gold I mean it wasn't gold dust,
Speaker 3: it was dust. And then somebody at a w CW
Speaker 3: paper Whew, they fought on the back of a flatbed truck. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Even yeah, Roddy and gold dust. Yeah, I guess it's
Speaker 3: funny to think gold dust is kind of the was
Speaker 3: the father of these things with those back to back,
Speaker 3: but at any rate, yeah, I mean, the swamp match.
Speaker 3: I don't know, we'll see it. Put it this way,
Speaker 3: with a j and Undertaker, I didn't know what a
Speaker 3: boonyard match was. And I loved it. I loved it
Speaker 3: up and down and all around. And there really wasn't
Speaker 3: There really wasn't any goof to it at all. When
Speaker 3: when it's Bray and Braun, I worry about there being
Speaker 3: some goofiness to it, just just because Braun, I mean,
Speaker 3: Braun's kind of goofy, and Vince makes him into such
Speaker 3: a you know, superman, that there are going to be
Speaker 3: illogical feats of strength. I would assume, you know that
Speaker 3: that happened just on that would happen on raw like
Speaker 3: on a good day, bron Strowman, you know, can lift
Speaker 3: fifteen tons of steel. But the I don't know. The
Speaker 3: only thing that I don't like the regression of Bray's character.
Speaker 3: You know, he's back in the swamp. They just kind
Speaker 3: of Vince's I don't know, taking his foot. I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't know it's even realize that the you know,
Speaker 3: the Fiend character even happened. I have just completely nobody
Speaker 3: remembers he was the Fiend. He's a guy from the
Speaker 3: slump with a hat, but I I have high hopes
Speaker 3: just because I think they've done a fairly good job.
Speaker 3: My worry is always what kind of goofy sound effects
Speaker 3: they're gonna use, because I assume that there is going
Speaker 3: to be, you know, the sounds of wildlife. I do
Speaker 3: want Braun to wrestle an alligator at some point. I
Speaker 3: think it's a perfect opportunity for Steve Kern to make
Speaker 3: a cameo a skinner. But we'll see, we'll see, we'll
Speaker 3: see what happens. But I don't know the bray element lends,
Speaker 3: you know, just the fact that they're calling it a
Speaker 3: horror show. I already know what Vince McMahon's idea of
Speaker 3: comedy is, and it's for anyone who doesn't know, it's
Speaker 3: it's someone getting their foot stuck in a bucket. That's
Speaker 3: that is high comedy for Vince. But with the horror stuff,
Speaker 3: I mean, look, no, I was never a big fan
Speaker 3: of the Firefly fun House. I think that rained a
Speaker 3: little goofy too, but it was also you know, the
Speaker 3: fiend stuff was scary. So we'll see, we'll see, hopefully
Speaker 3: it is. You know, I don't know, they've always kind
Speaker 3: of done even when Randy showed up at like, you know,
Speaker 3: Bray's house and they had that fight in the kitchen
Speaker 3: and the and all that stuff. I really like that.
Speaker 3: So we'll see what happens with this one. But I'm
Speaker 3: I'm more positive on it than than I am, Like
Speaker 3: you know, die versus eye for an eye think, but
Speaker 3: we'll see, We'll see what happens.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think for like a Midsummer July pay per view,
Speaker 1: You've got Braun as your world champion, wasn't part of
Speaker 1: the master plan, and you want to pay that off,
Speaker 1: probably at SummerSlam and my hunches that's when The Fiend
Speaker 1: comes back, and Summer Slam features broad in the Fiend
Speaker 1: with a title on the line. I'm okay with this
Speaker 1: being you know, kind of a step to get there.
Speaker 1: I mean, to me, I mean, this pay per view
Speaker 1: feels like Vince is just trying to figure out how
Speaker 1: do I get to August and put together a show?
Speaker 1: And oh, well, let's you know you could I can't
Speaker 1: even I mean, I can imagine, but the brainstorming session
Speaker 1: that led to horror Show as a nickname, but this
Speaker 1: seems like, you know, they're they're trying to use gimmick
Speaker 1: agree to get you to pay attention to them right
Speaker 1: now at a time when you know, I think they
Speaker 1: fear your attention might wane and you might cancel your network,
Speaker 1: and so they want to create these curiosities and understandably so,
Speaker 1: you know, like I mean cinematic matches. I don't think
Speaker 1: they're going to work really well if they go on
Speaker 1: when there's people who paid, you know, hundred some dollars
Speaker 1: for their ticket and they're staring at a big screen
Speaker 1: for an extended period of time. But I think during
Speaker 1: this era, even I I should say even I, but
Speaker 1: like I feel like my parameters for what what I
Speaker 1: should even not just accept be grudgingly, but embrace has
Speaker 1: has expanded. You know, desperate times call for desperate measures
Speaker 1: and doing something so outside of the box of this
Speaker 1: Often normally I'd be like, come on, you know, this
Speaker 1: is kind of undercutting the foundation of what makes kind
Speaker 1: of pro wrestling as a you know, structurally kind of work.
Speaker 1: And yet I think they get a good grade so
Speaker 1: far for all they've pulled it off. Actually, I want
Speaker 1: to step back to just a wider lens for a moment.
Speaker 1: And you mentioned the undertake er A J. Stout saying
Speaker 1: is is, does cinematic wrestling appeal to people who otherwise
Speaker 1: wouldn't watch wrestling? And does it turn off people who
Speaker 1: have a certain idea of what wrestling should be? And
Speaker 1: how do you think that is playing out? Putting even
Speaker 1: just kind of your personal enjoyment aside? Do you think
Speaker 1: there's a that it's bringing in new fans on the
Speaker 1: bright side, but it might be turning away some people
Speaker 1: who are like, this is not what I tune in for.
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe I mean, there's no pleasing everybody, that's the
Speaker 3: bottom line. But you know, I don't know as far
Speaker 3: as drawing and new fans, it depends. It depends on what.
Speaker 3: I don't know. There's so many X factors when it
Speaker 3: comes to what's an appeal to either. You know, hardcore
Speaker 3: hardcore fans are going to watch whatever. You know, they
Speaker 3: might they might complain, but they're still going to watch.
Speaker 3: Traditional fans Maybe maybe they don't like it as much.
Speaker 3: Although looking back now, where we're at an age where
Speaker 3: a traditional fan grew up with you know, the horsemen
Speaker 3: jumping Dusty in the parking lot, albeit that wasn't a match,
Speaker 3: but they were we were already getting into the era
Speaker 3: of going outside of the arena. The casual fan, it's
Speaker 3: always a u in the air, or like the non fan,
Speaker 3: it's always up in the air. Because on the one hand,
Speaker 3: I could see them digging. I could see the person
Speaker 3: who thinks that it looks less fake than wrestling in
Speaker 3: the ring, just because some people just conditioned to think
Speaker 3: wrestling in a ring is fake. And probably the other
Speaker 3: end of that, or similar to that, would be it
Speaker 3: looks a little bit more like an action movie. They
Speaker 3: could accept that more. But I think the other end
Speaker 3: of that would be part of it. Part of it
Speaker 3: could look like, you know, a fight seeing on a
Speaker 3: soap opera, you know what I mean, the way that
Speaker 3: it's shot, because it's not shot you know, like I
Speaker 3: don't know. I mean, it's just the way that it
Speaker 3: looks on video although you know things because it's just
Speaker 3: the way that it's shot. You know, it doesn't look
Speaker 3: like an episode of Life Out or something or you
Speaker 3: know whatever, law and order and stuff like that. It
Speaker 3: has a little bit more of a soap opera, you know,
Speaker 3: shot on I don't know if it's the cameras or
Speaker 3: sliding or if it's both or whatever, but so there is
Speaker 3: that aspect to it, like the aesthetic thing, but I
Speaker 3: mean I go off of what my wife would like,
Speaker 3: and my wife does not like wrestling. In fact, your
Speaker 3: catchphrase when it comes to it is always met. I
Speaker 3: have tried, but you know there are certain things like
Speaker 3: you know, put it this way. I showed her Orange
Speaker 3: Cassidy versus Pack, and then she started following Orange Cassidy
Speaker 3: on Instagram because she was like, this is amazing. We
Speaker 3: didn't watch the Boneyard match, but I could see maybe
Speaker 3: that having some appeal. But I could also see it,
Speaker 3: you know, she's she's just such a student of television
Speaker 3: that I could see her picking out the fakeness to
Speaker 3: it because it's strange. There is something the thing that
Speaker 3: makes professional wrestling that I think guys like us and
Speaker 3: people listening appreciate is that the fact that they can
Speaker 3: do it all in one tape to a I don't
Speaker 3: want to say untrained eye, but people who haven't it's
Speaker 3: an acquired taste. I think with pro wrestling compared to
Speaker 3: fight scenes in movies, because it's actually much easier to
Speaker 3: see the trickery watching like an action movie where they
Speaker 3: cut so much and they they shake the camera so
Speaker 3: much where it's like they're trying to hide those things.
Speaker 3: Whereas that I feel like, especially in an American audience,
Speaker 3: not maybe even just worldwide, because we all basically have
Speaker 3: the same movies and shit, have gotten used to this
Speaker 3: is what a fight looks like, you know, this is
Speaker 3: what a punch sounds like, Whereas it's you know, it's
Speaker 3: just it's it's just kind of that cherry candy thing
Speaker 3: like we all we all know what like, ooh, cherry candy,
Speaker 3: this is what but you n an actual cherry You're like, oh,
Speaker 3: this is not what it tastes like at all. I
Speaker 3: don't know, it's just I don't know what. I should
Speaker 3: watch the Boneyard match with her actually, just to get
Speaker 3: her opinion on it. But I mean, it's just for
Speaker 3: me as a fan. I think it's exciting and they're
Speaker 3: doing it well. And you know, because the Hearty Compound
Speaker 3: stuff was fun, it was and it emphasized fun more
Speaker 3: than anything, Whereas I think we've we're getting into a
Speaker 3: place where basically there was no laughs in the Boneyard match,
Speaker 3: and I think that that works too, Like we can
Speaker 3: do and this is interesting that they're you know, I
Speaker 3: mean it's Vince Vince to the promoter, give them something
Speaker 3: to promote, like, Oh, it's gonna be a horror show. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's gonna be like Halloween. What's better?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 3: I could see that. Yeah, but I like that they're
Speaker 3: going in a different direction of not only is this serious,
Speaker 3: this is gonna be scary. That's that's the way it
Speaker 3: comes off to me. So we'll see if if if
Speaker 3: they pull it off.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep. You can support us on Patreon and get
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Speaker 1: more benefits through Patreon. Let's pause, ands at the table
Speaker 1: and introduce ourselves. This is the Wade Keller prog Wrestling Podcast.
Speaker 1: It's a Thursday edition previewing the Backlash Horse Show pay
Speaker 1: per view on Sunday. The voice you hear is Matt McCarthy.
Speaker 1: He is a frequent guest here on the Wadekeller shows
Speaker 1: for years and years now. Can you believe how long
Speaker 1: it's been met since you've worked for Dowe?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, follow, you're what you're You're in a different place
Speaker 1: in life and uh, but what a chapter that was.
Speaker 1: And we've gone in depth on that multiple times in
Speaker 1: past interviews. And it's always you always find there's always
Speaker 1: something happening today where there's something that happened to you
Speaker 1: with your time on the creative team that you can pull,
Speaker 1: pull an anecdote or an example about man in that
Speaker 1: adds some color and layers in a analysis and perspective
Speaker 1: to why things are happening today that might be wildered
Speaker 1: some people. So great to have you on the show, Mat, Oh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I always happy to be here. Yeah. I
Speaker 3: was a writer for WWE there from god November twenty
Speaker 3: eleven until October twenty twelve, when I quit moved out
Speaker 3: to La you know, to get back into comedy. And
Speaker 3: I don't know if we ever even talked about it
Speaker 3: because I kept such a tight lid on it at
Speaker 3: the time. But like they actually reached out to me
Speaker 3: to do consulting in the very beginning of twenty sixteen,
Speaker 3: and I did that for two more years, where they
Speaker 3: would throw me some assignments. I would write things up,
Speaker 3: so you know, not that I can take credit for
Speaker 3: everything that I was involved in, but you know, I
Speaker 3: wrote things like the Daniel Bryan Caane anger management segments
Speaker 3: or you know, leading up to uh MS, and like
Speaker 3: I wrote the Miss Maurice parodies of of of Total
Speaker 3: Bella's stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, yeah.
Speaker 3: I again, it was you know, at the time, I
Speaker 3: was like, you know, because I'm I've been doing the
Speaker 3: Wee Watch Wrestling podcast since I left h w WE
Speaker 3: and and but I couldn't report with those guys, and
Speaker 3: you know, I they would often often say to me,
Speaker 3: you're the only ex writer who still loves wrestling. I
Speaker 3: don't know how true that is. If you follow Gen
Speaker 3: Bloodsworth on Twitter, she's she's she's just the best. I
Speaker 3: didn't work with it directly, but we became we became
Speaker 3: fast friends. Uh Once I was back on the outside
Speaker 3: of the real world in the comedy world. But you know,
Speaker 3: obviously Kevin Ex still loves it too. He's over at
Speaker 3: Ring of Honor. But yeah, you know, lifelong wrestling fans
Speaker 3: and uh, you know comedy actor did a lot of
Speaker 3: stuff with college humor. You know the Batman videos with
Speaker 3: Pete Holmes. I was on a p home show. That's
Speaker 3: really what I left WW to move out here and
Speaker 3: do h He had a short lived talk show after Coning,
Speaker 3: and then I've since gotten, uh the opportunity to performance
Speaker 3: sketches on Coning quite a bit. You know, a lot
Speaker 3: of commercials and you know, stand up and all that stuff,
Speaker 3: and always pop it up somewhere. I always every once
Speaker 3: in a while, the other guys will be on TV
Speaker 3: and I'll get a text from somebody or a tweet
Speaker 3: and they'll be like, oh my god.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 3: So it's just a yeah, I'm a very grateful, grateful guy,
Speaker 3: you know. Uh, And I love pro wrestling. It's the
Speaker 3: greatest time to be a wrestling fan. I can't wait
Speaker 3: to go back again. I guess I got to pack
Speaker 3: up my bag and go to an iw A South
Speaker 3: show or mid South show, or to go find some
Speaker 3: GCW or something. But happy to watch it on TV.
Speaker 1: They won't, you can't, but you know, sneak your way
Speaker 1: into Japan.
Speaker 3: Yeah that's right, Yes, that's right.
Speaker 1: So plug your plug, your two Twitter, plug your projects,
Speaker 1: plug your podcast.
Speaker 3: Met Yeah. Every Wednesday new episodes of the We Watch
Speaker 3: Wrestling Podcast. Me and Vince April, two lifelong fans, comedians,
Speaker 3: best friends, and we just you know, break it down
Speaker 3: and talk about not just the current product, but everything
Speaker 3: that we're watching. We're always dipping our toes into you know,
Speaker 3: wwea w New Japan, but you know, we watch a
Speaker 3: lot of classic stuff and we we always talk about
Speaker 3: you know, it's it's very stream of consciousness, very all
Speaker 3: over the place. It's just two friends, you know, hanging
Speaker 3: out and talking. You know this last time, God, what
Speaker 3: do we get into on Wednesday? We were talking about
Speaker 3: I don't know, We're always just like goofing about like
Speaker 3: brock Lesnie looking for his reading glasses or like whole
Speaker 3: Covid leaving voicemails for vincemick Man, trying to get back
Speaker 3: on TV and stuff. I mean, it's just like it's
Speaker 3: you know, and you know, and you know, I spent
Speaker 3: a lot of time with Vincick man, so I have
Speaker 3: my Vince Oh god, yes, you know. It's just it's
Speaker 3: a lot of fun. So so check that out. I
Speaker 3: highly recommend it. And yeah, we watch wrestling available wherever
Speaker 3: wherever podcasts are sold.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, all right, very good. So from a standpoint
Speaker 1: of more or less or just right, how do you
Speaker 1: rank them at this point in terms of how often
Speaker 1: they're going to the pre taped cinematic matches and uh
Speaker 1: and and how they're balancing that with sort of the
Speaker 1: variety of approaches to doing them it is? Do you
Speaker 1: think they should just do more like go go more
Speaker 1: in or all in if you can't have, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: an an arena full of fans, because this works better
Speaker 1: than what they're doing otherwise, where are you on that?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I would have to see it. I
Speaker 3: don't know if we can do a whole pay per
Speaker 3: view of it, but maybe I don't know. I feel
Speaker 3: like doing it. It feels like they've done it maybe
Speaker 3: at most two matches on a card, and now that
Speaker 3: I think about it, it was one. I was thinking
Speaker 3: of Mania that they had the two, but they were
Speaker 3: on different nights, so it's kind of just the one
Speaker 3: and maybe one is enough because even though it was
Speaker 3: in the performance center, you know, the the Edge and
Speaker 3: Randy Jorton, you could make the argument was a cinematic
Speaker 3: match because of the cuts and the retakes and the
Speaker 3: you know, piped in noise and the Howard Finkle bs.
Speaker 3: But I don't know, like the money in the bank
Speaker 3: was good and bad. Like I ultimately I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 3: But again, when Vince goes for laughs, it's always well
Speaker 3: the fact guys eating food, you know. But I love
Speaker 3: I love going out an adventure, you know, and I
Speaker 3: love when pro wrestling does that for me, like I
Speaker 3: miss world class and the character profiles are just like
Speaker 3: going to the Freebird's house where they're shooting pool and
Speaker 3: making fun of Van Erks, you know, that type of thing.
Speaker 3: So I feel like there's a place for doing an
Speaker 3: entire match like your little mini movie on the pay
Speaker 3: per view, like a boneyard, like a stadium stampede. But
Speaker 3: also I feel like going in the direction of the
Speaker 3: World's Greatest wrestling match was a good direction of going
Speaker 3: not necessarily for the in arena matches. I think I
Speaker 3: still prefer a one take wrestling match, you know, warts
Speaker 3: and all. I'm a deadhead, like I just want to
Speaker 3: listen to something unedited and see did it work, did
Speaker 3: it not work? You know? I like that. That's the
Speaker 3: music of pro wrestling. It's jazz. It's if they go
Speaker 3: out there and they try things and sometimes it works,
Speaker 3: sometimes it doesn't, and that's the art in it. But
Speaker 3: I think the direction that they went in, what I'm
Speaker 3: getting at is I would love to see some more
Speaker 3: utilization of smaller pieces, some smaller than yettes. Not the
Speaker 3: vikings and the and the the what are they? It's
Speaker 3: not private party. They're the street profits. The street profits.
Speaker 3: Thank you. It's just like two teams with the same
Speaker 3: gimmick started at the same time. In my head, I
Speaker 3: don't like, wait, wait, which is a party? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Profit part? Is it profit party? Is it?
Speaker 3: The prof right? And then it's the piece, Yeah, always
Speaker 3: get thrown off.
Speaker 1: It's the private profits, off the books, the.
Speaker 3: Private profits, that's right. The street party, not that, not
Speaker 3: you know, playing flip cup and you know freeze tag.
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't have any room for that, but
Speaker 3: more of a you know, this is who I am,
Speaker 3: This is where I come from. This is uh because
Speaker 3: it's also I feel like they they I mean, Vince
Speaker 3: is getting too hung up on well, this is what
Speaker 3: people have done, and this is what we've done. And
Speaker 3: because I think when as a quick aside, when Vince
Speaker 3: gets hung up on what other people have done, he
Speaker 3: immediately dismisses it and says, well, we'd never do that.
Speaker 3: Oh God, the last thing we do. So thank goodness
Speaker 3: that he has been able to. Thank goodness, somebody convinced
Speaker 3: him that it was his idea, the cinematic matches, that
Speaker 3: it didn't start in W cw ort and A, that
Speaker 3: he's the one who came up with it or a w.
Speaker 1: And that Impact hasn't been doing it. Don't don't watch Impact.
Speaker 1: They haven't been wating it for a couple years.
Speaker 3: But the thing that I think is a complete disconnect
Speaker 3: is how good like above and beyond their documentaries on
Speaker 3: the network are you know, the twenty four's, the up
Speaker 3: close whatever it is that they don't utilize that in
Speaker 3: a very condensed, abbreviated form on the show. I feel
Speaker 3: like and T was getting a little close to doing
Speaker 3: that a couple of years ago, and they still do
Speaker 3: a little bit. But you know, I'm just thinking like
Speaker 3: in terms of like watching like the Our Truth twenty four.
Speaker 3: It's like there is so much depth to that guy
Speaker 3: beyond just you know, the guy who makes mistakes all
Speaker 3: the time all the time. You know that that that
Speaker 3: type of thing there is there is they There's so
Speaker 3: much that they could be doing that they just aren't.
Speaker 3: And that will never make sense to me. Why sometimes
Speaker 3: it's just Vince's Vince's just Vince. You know that's sometimes
Speaker 3: that's the only answer we get. Vince and Vince, you know.
Speaker 6: Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts.
Speaker 6: Will come join me Alan Furrel over in the Progress
Speaker 6: Paradise at Peter botorch VIP as we ask on the
Speaker 6: bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the
Speaker 6: great matches and shows from around the world, be it
Speaker 6: the US, Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's always a place
Speaker 6: for wrestlings past in the Paradise too, and we've done
Speaker 6: fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series
Speaker 6: celebrating the glorious career of Jusian thunder Lighter and Our
Speaker 6: Eye Was There When shows where our guests will join
Speaker 6: me to talk about a classic bout that they were
Speaker 6: in attendance for. We Love variety and you can expect
Speaker 6: lots of it at the Pro Wrest Paradise. Detailed pwof
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Speaker 1: See you in the Paradise. Well before I went back
Speaker 1: to the match previews for Sunday, tell me how you
Speaker 1: think they're doing in these last what are we at
Speaker 1: four months of fan free wrestling, and how it's evolved,
Speaker 1: how it's changed, how they have incorporated you know more
Speaker 1: like aw really went heavy on pre recorded segments when
Speaker 1: they could even record in Florida, and they did the
Speaker 1: Georgia thing and they just you know, the atmosphere wasn't great,
Speaker 1: they weren't here. How long they would need to stretch
Speaker 1: out the footage they had, and they did more, you know,
Speaker 1: memorable things that were pre taped. And now they've moved
Speaker 1: back to you know, on the way to the arena
Speaker 1: right down. Six matches and three promos. Point the camera
Speaker 1: at the ring, and then let's see how it plays out,
Speaker 1: you know, real low elbow grease production. What do you
Speaker 1: think of WWE specifically and how they've how the atmosphere
Speaker 1: has progressed with audience members and the plexiglass and the
Speaker 1: enhanced crowd noise and all of that.
Speaker 3: I mean anytime WWE, I mean, the enhanced crowd noise
Speaker 3: is just brutal. It just comes. I don't know what
Speaker 3: is going on in that truck. But like Kevin Dunn,
Speaker 3: I don't think he's ever heard like It's just like,
Speaker 3: how do you guys spend so much time traveling the
Speaker 3: world with live audiences and then you can't recreate the
Speaker 3: sound of a live audience well, you know, it just
Speaker 3: will never. I don't know, I don't know what it is.
Speaker 3: When they start using sound effects, they are the goofiest,
Speaker 3: fakest sounding thing I have I've ever heard. I mean,
Speaker 3: like when I worked there, we were doing the like
Speaker 3: one one raw I got a signed when Will Sasso
Speaker 3: and the other guys who played the Three Stooges when
Speaker 3: they when they did a Three Stooges remake, I was
Speaker 3: just mortified because I was like, they are going to
Speaker 3: add in like goofy sound effects to this, like I
Speaker 3: knew it going in and then sure enough that's what aired,
Speaker 3: and it was like, I don't even remember. We must have.
Speaker 3: I must have been in the room with with like
Speaker 3: Sasso and then watching it. Now, there's no way I
Speaker 3: would have been a gorilla. But at any rate, I
Speaker 3: don't remember specifically, but like SASO's a really funny guy,
Speaker 3: and he's he's a really meticulous performer, and it's a perfectionist,
Speaker 3: you know. I mean, that's the bottom line. He takes
Speaker 3: what he does very seriously. And I can't remember specifically
Speaker 3: him being like what the hell were those sound effects,
Speaker 3: but I'm pretty sure that that was exactly what happened,
Speaker 3: And I just kind of was like, dude, I'm just
Speaker 3: happy I didn't get yelled at. Thanks for being a
Speaker 3: good sport, But I mean, I don't wwe cannot help
Speaker 3: themselves sometimes in making the product when they try to
Speaker 3: enhance the hurt and when they I was such I
Speaker 3: was so relieved when they finally added in in audience
Speaker 3: members and then very quickly was like, oh, this is
Speaker 3: terrible because it's like it's just so fake. It's just
Speaker 3: it's because they're wrestlers. They're trying to get noticed. They're
Speaker 3: also young in the company and everybody is everybody in
Speaker 3: that place is terrified of making a mistake. It's like
Speaker 3: walking on glass. There's heat everywhere and you don't and
Speaker 3: there's no consistency, and you don't know how you're going
Speaker 3: to screw up next. But sure enough, somebody is going
Speaker 3: to get Like you never know what's the thing that
Speaker 3: Vince is going to fixate on, you know, or orkd
Speaker 3: or whoever whoever. You know, it just a trickles down
Speaker 3: and I can feel it in them trying to act
Speaker 3: excited during the show, and it comes off so phony
Speaker 3: and contrived. There's no reason, like a group of scattered
Speaker 3: people who aren't actually fans would start channing this is awesome,
Speaker 3: Like it makes it so much phonier. Whereas like, aw
Speaker 3: did it so well with like the wrestlers because it
Speaker 3: was just you know, they stayed true to themselves. It's
Speaker 3: like Penelope ford is on her Chaise lounge just hanging out.
Speaker 3: MJF is still MJF. Austin Gunn is a spas. So
Speaker 3: it was great you had the gun Club acting spastic,
Speaker 3: But like when you watch WWE, it feels like the
Speaker 3: entire crowd is Austin guns all just like flipping out
Speaker 3: and going crazy, and it's like, this match isn't that good.
Speaker 3: You're not actually being genuine with me about how you're
Speaker 3: reacting to this match. You know. It feels like it's
Speaker 3: it's the way people act when they know that they're
Speaker 3: being scrutinized, and that's you know, so it's it hurts it.
Speaker 3: I mean, I hope, I hope nobody shows Vince footage
Speaker 3: from your Japan Cup and from UH Dominion because that
Speaker 3: room felt full. It was a quarter capacity and that
Speaker 3: room felt full. And Vince is if he sees anything
Speaker 3: anyone else is doing, he's going to do it too,
Speaker 3: and he's going to do it better. It's like, oh,
Speaker 3: well they had a full arena, we can do a
Speaker 3: full arena. It does give me hope though that Mania
Speaker 3: will be in in LA. But yeah, but we'll see.
Speaker 3: I don't know. If I don't know, i'll be it
Speaker 3: Mania in LA. But we'll see what happens, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's been it's been interesting watching this adjustment.
Speaker 1: It's so unprecedented to have, you know, big budgets but
Speaker 1: be doing udio wrestling like I'm used to low budget
Speaker 1: studio wrestling. I'm used to another era studio wrestling. I'm
Speaker 1: used to retro studio wrestling like WA Power. You know,
Speaker 1: that's a combination of budget and just what they're going
Speaker 1: for artistically. But to see what WWE with, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: say unlimited resources because you know, I think they're rightfully
Speaker 1: so little nervous about things. But but you know, in
Speaker 1: what AW has done with Daily's place in the in
Speaker 1: what they have there versus w B with with the
Speaker 1: PC and the evolution of the setting and what they
Speaker 1: did with the lighting and the staging and the camera angles.
Speaker 1: I mean, it is crazy different now than it was
Speaker 1: those you know, the on the transition in late March
Speaker 1: and early April when everyone was kind of shell shocked
Speaker 1: about this and they didn't have time to adjust. And
Speaker 1: I've gotten pretty used to it, you know, some of
Speaker 1: the critiques of how people respond, I'm with you on
Speaker 1: but when I'm watching a wrestling match in the big
Speaker 1: screen in the stages in the background, and you know,
Speaker 1: whether it's NXT's kind of dark background lighting or WWE
Speaker 1: with the you know, kind of colored high energy lights
Speaker 1: along the border, and then you have crowd noise. Now
Speaker 1: I don't I mean, obviously it would be better with
Speaker 1: a crowd, but I don't get hung up on it
Speaker 1: as i'm watching it if what they're doing is good otherwise.
Speaker 3: I mean, because the fact is, especially with WWE, I
Speaker 3: tend to watch it a little more with the volume down.
Speaker 3: I muted. I kind of always did, just because.
Speaker 1: The commentary, Matt, they've got this guy Byron who you're
Speaker 1: really missing out?
Speaker 3: Oh boy, Hey, they're just very distracted. I'll put it
Speaker 3: that way. And you know, it took me a while.
Speaker 3: I was always torn watching New Japan because whether or
Speaker 3: not I would watch the English commentary because I want
Speaker 3: to be informed and Kevin Kelly is absolute phenomenal at
Speaker 3: what he does. But there was I was so used
Speaker 3: to I just loved listening to the Japanese commentators because
Speaker 3: I didn't know what they were saying, so I was
Speaker 3: not distracted by the match, but their energy came through
Speaker 3: and the excitement would come through, and so it was
Speaker 3: very It was like this perfect it was like this
Speaker 3: perfect marriage of being able to watch and feel.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, well I loved it. To me.
Speaker 1: Do you watch the Japanese commentary on dominion or or
Speaker 1: did you wait for the American English?
Speaker 3: No? I well no, no, no, well no, I think
Speaker 3: which one? Did I watch one of them? I did
Speaker 3: watch in Japanese? Maybe it was maybe it was the finals?
Speaker 1: Actually what because because I loved I loved the Japanese comments, boushie,
Speaker 1: that was so good. That added so much to it,
Speaker 1: compared to the ENGOs anouncers who are like, that's not
Speaker 1: bougie and instead it was like this heartbroken. Could it be?
Speaker 1: I don't think it is? But is it? You know,
Speaker 1: like I don't know.
Speaker 3: If that was fun, that's great. Well. The one thing
Speaker 3: I did love is at the the EMT shows, I
Speaker 3: would listen to Kevin Kelly, but I could hear the
Speaker 3: Japanese guys background. This is perfect, which is like the
Speaker 3: perfect mix.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to the
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Speaker 1: slash go v ip Okay, Well, I don't know where
Speaker 1: we are, but let'steer back to UH to All Horsees show,
Speaker 1: so specifically on Bray and Braun. What kind of shenanigans
Speaker 1: are finish or mission should there be for this match?
Speaker 1: I mean, it could be as simple as a self
Speaker 1: contained let's just have fun with the creative freedom of
Speaker 1: cinematic wrestling, that is, unleashing crazy ideas we could never
Speaker 1: execute without post editing and multiple multiple takes and all that,
Speaker 1: and let's just have fun with it and then go
Speaker 1: from there. Or is there a greater purpose storyline wise
Speaker 1: for the characters? Do you expect Braun to be pulled
Speaker 1: into Bray's web again now that he's you know, with
Speaker 1: the cult leader again? Who you know? Braun said, maybe
Speaker 1: foreshadowing I've been I've been running away from who I
Speaker 1: was then for a long time, almost making its on
Speaker 1: like it's an effort. And you know, he said there's
Speaker 1: things about that brawn that he enjoyed and he misses,
Speaker 1: and you know, does he go heal? Is that a
Speaker 1: big angle or is there some other angle that that
Speaker 1: justifies and amplifies the need and anticipation for a summer
Speaker 1: slim rematch with the Fiend? Does the Fiend show up
Speaker 1: in the swamp? Do we have you know, bray White
Speaker 1: in multiple places with multiple personalities? Does Otis show up
Speaker 1: with the money in the bank and cash in opportunistically? Uh,
Speaker 1: in some form of fashion. I mean, I think there's
Speaker 1: a lot of ways this could go, some more creative
Speaker 1: than we want, others less creative than we want. What
Speaker 1: what do you kind of anticipate in that regard in
Speaker 1: terms of where we are then afterwards with that, with that,
Speaker 1: with those two characters in particular.
Speaker 3: I see, I don't know that I feel like there
Speaker 3: is I mean, maybe they're going because I guess they're
Speaker 3: going to, you know, Randy. It seems like Randy and
Speaker 3: Drew is the place they're going on that side, Because
Speaker 3: I was wondering what bronze involvement could be in those terms.
Speaker 3: I don't know if I feel like there is a
Speaker 3: rematch with him and Bray just because it's it's but again,
Speaker 3: it's this Wwe doesn't think the way that anyone else
Speaker 3: thinks like it wouldn't. It doesn't make sense why you
Speaker 3: go from the swamp match to then, well, the only
Speaker 3: way we can settle this is in a regular match
Speaker 3: in a ring. It's just it's there's no heightening. It's
Speaker 3: like we're going backwards. So, but Bray is also.
Speaker 4: God.
Speaker 3: Even even when he was the Fiends, they he Vince
Speaker 3: just so quickly turned him into just Cannon thought, you know,
Speaker 3: of like all right, we was just going to job
Speaker 3: to Goldberg and then we're gonna forget about him. And
Speaker 3: then I did find the scene of thing at Mania
Speaker 3: entertaining and interesting, but at the same time I was,
Speaker 3: you know, I wanted to see John Ctene and Bray
Speaker 3: Wyatt wrestle. That was the bottom line. So there was
Speaker 3: a disappointment there. So it's it's also it's just I
Speaker 3: don't know, I don't know what you do with with
Speaker 3: the Fiend. It's so I don't know. I didn't even
Speaker 3: consider Otis being involved too. But it's like, I do
Speaker 3: love the idea of Otis on like one of those
Speaker 3: swamp boats with like the giant fan in the back,
Speaker 3: you know, just him like cruising around trying to look
Speaker 3: for somebody, you know him like maybe even maybe even
Speaker 3: like Bray finds an alligator, wrestles it, or bron finds
Speaker 3: an alligator, wrestles it, kills it, and then Otis by
Speaker 3: the end, he just pulls up and finds the alligators
Speaker 3: just like, oh, free meat. And then you just see
Speaker 3: him all week on Instagram cooking alligator by the way week. Yeah,
Speaker 3: if anybody is not following Otis on Instagram, uh, do
Speaker 3: yourself a favor. His his story. It's just him cooking
Speaker 3: meat every day. It's the bed.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: He plays with his dogs and he's cooking meat in
Speaker 3: his garage. It's the greatest. But yeah, I mean as
Speaker 3: far as the mechanics of what happens with you know,
Speaker 3: the belt and all of them, and where it goes
Speaker 3: program wise, I don't know. It is interesting, I don't
Speaker 3: I guess Bray and Brawn is a big match for
Speaker 3: Summer Slam. Maybe that is the reason why it's like, well,
Speaker 3: he's Bray White and the Swamp. You know, it's not
Speaker 3: going to be the Fiend, but it's is. I just
Speaker 3: don't like, it's just such a regression. It feels like
Speaker 3: and it's always like people associated with the Wyatt family,
Speaker 3: who is not Ron Strowman. It's always you know, Luke
Speaker 3: Harper and Eric Groener getting the singles push but we're
Speaker 3: going to put them back together. You know, it's just
Speaker 3: Bray Wyatt. So he's a badass and he's just going
Speaker 3: a job to you know, Undertaker and Goldberg, and you know,
Speaker 3: we're not building for the future. And then the I
Speaker 3: mean the rebuilding and the rebranding of Wyatt as the
Speaker 3: Fiend and how interesting and new and fresh that was
Speaker 3: and how quickly Vince just turned off the gas is
Speaker 3: just I mean, it speaks volumes. It's so it's so
Speaker 3: typical of that place. It's incredible. So I don't know,
Speaker 3: I'm trying to just go one show at a time. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and just I just want to see what what the
Speaker 3: hell they're going to pull out of their their their
Speaker 3: hat with the Swamp Thing. Who knows, maybe Swamp Thing
Speaker 3: will throw up, maybe that'll be that'll be good. Maybe
Speaker 3: maybe yeah, Like Bray White gets you know, lit on
Speaker 3: fire with chemicals and then he jumps into the swamp
Speaker 3: and then that's how he turned into the scene in
Speaker 3: the first place. Who knows I'm in tatnything.
Speaker 7: In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
Speaker 7: ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP
Speaker 7: podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
Speaker 7: look at this page in NXT's early history.
Speaker 4: Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from p WT
Speaker 4: Talks NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back
Speaker 4: to the day to track NXT's rising talents and why
Speaker 4: they did or didn't work out. Exclusively for PW Torch
Speaker 4: vip members.
Speaker 1: Let's turn the paper and talk about eye for an eye?
Speaker 1: Are you cringing at the hype? Do you think this
Speaker 1: is genius to get people to tune in to see
Speaker 1: what the heck they're going to do with the stipulation?
Speaker 1: So over the top and outlandish, and either way, if
Speaker 1: they're gonna do this and your job is to execute
Speaker 1: it well or greade how they're doing it, how do
Speaker 1: you grade them in terms of executing the hype?
Speaker 3: For this so far, well, I just it's no, there's
Speaker 3: I mean, it's on the one hand, it's on one hand,
Speaker 3: on paper, it is logical from where they've come from
Speaker 3: and the story that they've told, But in practice as
Speaker 3: a viewer, as an audience member, as as as as
Speaker 3: a forty year old man who grew up on wrestling,
Speaker 3: this is the goofiest thing I've ever heard of, because
Speaker 3: it's like, what what who? Where is there is there
Speaker 3: a wrestling commission that you know? I mean, I'm just
Speaker 3: it's one of these things where I'm like I can
Speaker 3: even accept you know, ten years ago the ladder match
Speaker 3: for the custody of the kids. But now it's we've
Speaker 3: gone to the place now where it's the only way
Speaker 3: to win is to maim someone, to blind someone, to
Speaker 3: like you like, and you can't. And it's just the
Speaker 3: functionality of it too, of like like, well, the referee
Speaker 3: can only call what he sees. You have to show
Speaker 3: the eye to the rest, he has to examine it
Speaker 3: and be like is this his I let me double
Speaker 3: check make sure that this guy has an empty eye socket,
Speaker 3: you know. And then on top of that, just the
Speaker 3: special effects that they're going to use is the most
Speaker 3: morbid curiosity rubbernecking thing. I cannot wait to see this
Speaker 3: and and also never put it past Vince to have
Speaker 3: that end in a no contest, you know, like Ray
Speaker 3: Wyatt got ah dq'ed from a hell u sl.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 3: The first ever eye for an eye match, and this
Speaker 3: match will not end until someone isn't doesn't have an
Speaker 3: eye very well, it could end in a count out,
Speaker 3: you know. I mean, it's just it's so goofy. But
Speaker 3: I'm very I'm curious, but probably for all the wrong reasons,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm not I'm not compelled. I'm just intrigued,
Speaker 3: if that makes sense. There's no there's nothing, Yeah, there's
Speaker 3: nothing in me that is like, Wow, they're really going
Speaker 3: for it. It is much more of a how are
Speaker 3: they going to pull this ship off? And how goofy
Speaker 3: is it going to look? Because there's no I can
Speaker 3: suspend my disbelief when people get irish whipped into the corner,
Speaker 3: when they bounce off of the ropes, when they just
Speaker 3: stand there wait for somebody to jump on top of them,
Speaker 3: I can. I can. I can do the math in
Speaker 3: my mind of how this fits in this game of
Speaker 3: human chests that we call pro wrestling. You know, I
Speaker 3: can accept those things, but when it's I don't know, man,
Speaker 3: when he's just Brown's is going to reach under the
Speaker 3: mask and pull out a mad ball and he's just
Speaker 3: gonna be like, look I got his eye. I win,
Speaker 3: you know. Then and then what the fake audience is
Speaker 3: going to It reminds me of when at Mania fifteen,
Speaker 3: what Undertaker like hung a boss Man from his neck
Speaker 3: from the hell in a Cell and it's one of
Speaker 3: my favorite transitions ever, Like the man's dead. He's literally
Speaker 3: hanging from a noose from the cage, and Michael Cole
Speaker 3: is like, is this an effigy? Is this a symbol?
Speaker 3: Is this is he symbolically hanging the entire corporation? A beat?
Speaker 3: A beat, a beat? And then Cole's just like, well, fans,
Speaker 3: we've had amazing MENI a week, we had the two
Speaker 3: K run, we did the five and it's just like
Speaker 3: the man is still hanging dead, yeah, and shows up
Speaker 3: on TV like two or three weeks later. I'm just like,
Speaker 3: this is this is beyond And then that's the you know,
Speaker 3: everybody wants the attitude there back. I'm like, guys, come.
Speaker 1: On awkward Nightly news transitions, Yes, very highly. Yes. What
Speaker 1: do you think of the Seth Rollins character so different
Speaker 1: than you know, what he had been doing previously, even
Speaker 1: as heel characters before and especially as babyface characters are
Speaker 1: in the Shield? Is this is this working for you?
Speaker 1: Because Seth the prior versions assessed or to hit a
Speaker 1: ceiling and you know, Vince and the writers got bored
Speaker 1: writing for maybe Seth even got bored with it and
Speaker 1: it wasn't just taking off, so yeah, let's try something different.
Speaker 1: Is he pulling this off well? Or is this just
Speaker 1: kind of boring and and and a little too much
Speaker 1: of a downer watching him do his thing?
Speaker 3: I mean, I am more I'm more inclined to feel
Speaker 3: like it's it's a little boring. It's just I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's also a combination of like the run
Speaker 3: he had as a Babyface with Bray really took the
Speaker 3: wind out of my sales with Seth. And then you know,
Speaker 3: he's such a company man online that it's like I'm
Speaker 3: just like, get out of here, like stop saying things.
Speaker 3: And then then they start this character and I'm just
Speaker 3: like all those things combined with this rather boring character
Speaker 3: have two and it's just it's it's I don't know.
Speaker 3: I also I just ultimately I don't like when Vince
Speaker 3: plays with you know stuff or like you know, religious implications,
Speaker 3: like you know, when Austin was on the you know,
Speaker 3: Undertaker symbol and it looked like he was being crucified
Speaker 3: or like now upset the Messiah. It's just like or
Speaker 3: Vince himself wrestling God. It's just like what what what
Speaker 3: is what is the need? What is what? What is
Speaker 3: what is the statement? What is going on here? Just
Speaker 3: like it's just it's it's uncomfortable and it's confusing, and
Speaker 3: it's just it's one more allins his character is one
Speaker 3: more piece and this you know thing that Vince has
Speaker 3: with you know I maybe it is just purely Vince's
Speaker 3: massive ego. Like he is, he's he's upset that anyone
Speaker 3: else does wrestling, but he's also upset with the idea
Speaker 3: that there might be a higher power. I mean he
Speaker 3: literally he made himself the higher power on Raw one.
Speaker 3: He's just like it was me, I'm the higher power,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm the one. It's just like the idea
Speaker 3: that there might there might be a god out there,
Speaker 3: that there's anything that Vince can't control. You know, how
Speaker 3: long did he pretend there wasn't a coronavirus? And now
Speaker 3: it's just like this, this this theme keeps coming up
Speaker 3: where he's got like he's got a major resentment against God.
Speaker 3: You know. I'm just like, I don't know. So it
Speaker 3: brings up all of that for me as well. But
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't Seth isn't He's just not
Speaker 3: the most compelling character on a good day for me.
Speaker 3: And then all those things that I mentioned leading into this,
Speaker 3: I'm just like, just shut up and wrestle, you know.
Speaker 3: I'm like, I just yeah, I don't know. You know,
Speaker 3: does that make sense?
Speaker 1: You don't have to wait for the Way Killer for
Speaker 1: Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Speaker 1: Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check
Speaker 1: out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
Speaker 1: SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell
Speaker 1: you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show,
Speaker 1: and it will also analyze key segments and give my
Speaker 1: random thoughts quips on what I am watching as it airs.
Speaker 1: So check it out every Monday Night and Tuesday Night
Speaker 1: at pwtorch dot com. That also applies to wwepayperviews. I
Speaker 1: cover those live at pw torch dot com with a
Speaker 1: detailed written report with star ratings, and of course you
Speaker 1: can find other TV reports from other contributors to PW
Speaker 1: torch such as nxt roh, Impact Wrestling and more. Check
Speaker 1: it out pwtorch dot com your first stop for TV
Speaker 1: and pay per view written reports. What's the best use
Speaker 1: of Seth rowlins you've seen or the best use of
Speaker 1: Seth rollins if you were to have influence on transitioning
Speaker 1: him to a long term role and is he a
Speaker 1: top is he a top three heel or top three
Speaker 1: baby face or do you think he's like in the
Speaker 1: next three you know, kind of long term also in
Speaker 1: terms of where you end up placing him, he was a.
Speaker 3: Top three baby face until they like made him into
Speaker 3: such a like blithering coward with the Bray Wyatt run
Speaker 3: and he was so damaged from that and then becomes
Speaker 3: like this mouthpiece for the Vince McMahon, you know, insanity machine,
Speaker 3: like during like like when they laid off all those people,
Speaker 3: and then Rollinds is on Instagram just being like, let's
Speaker 3: not rush to you know, blame or like you know
Speaker 3: a lot of people talking crap about the companies. Just like, dude,
Speaker 3: shut up, like shut up already, like plea, just read
Speaker 3: the scripts that they give you and shut up, you know.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's no better way to put it. It's
Speaker 3: just like this. It's like you company man, like like god,
Speaker 3: get bent. I'm just like but like when his character
Speaker 3: was a company man and he was using the authority
Speaker 3: and it was it felt scripted and was just like
Speaker 3: not who he actually is. Then I found it much
Speaker 3: more enjoyable when he had like the two stooges with him,
Speaker 3: when he was you know, the I never I when
Speaker 3: I when the shield, when I was getting close to
Speaker 3: what you know, it looks like the shield's going to
Speaker 3: break up. He was the guy I was worried about.
Speaker 3: It felt like he was going to be the odd
Speaker 3: man out because it was like Rome's the chosen one
Speaker 3: and Mosley is the most compelling. I thought that Rollins
Speaker 3: was the best in ring worker, but I was worried
Speaker 3: that he was just you know, he's still My concern
Speaker 3: was that he still had the ring of honor Indie
Speaker 3: guys stink on him, and that it was like, he
Speaker 3: wants to work his own way. He's not going to listen,
Speaker 3: He's gonna wind up, like you know, tossed the side
Speaker 3: like they did with Chris Harrow and a million other guys,
Speaker 3: and instead they actually went with him. You know, Dean
Speaker 3: becomes the odd man out essentially, even but he was
Speaker 3: still so compelling, he was able to transcend so much
Speaker 3: of the craft that been shoveled on him. But clearly
Speaker 3: their mistake, they booked him right out of the territory,
Speaker 3: you know. But it was just so I think, I
Speaker 3: don't know, I don't know what Rollins could do to
Speaker 3: recoup himself, like in my mind as a viewer, because
Speaker 3: like I've said, there is a lot of preconceived baggage
Speaker 3: that comes to mind when I see him walk out,
Speaker 3: and there is a there is a certain distaste for it,
Speaker 3: and and ultimately I'm like, you know, I'd rather see
Speaker 3: somebody else in those top positions now, you know, as
Speaker 3: great as his matches are, I'm just like every there's
Speaker 3: just a lot of baggage, you know. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's the bottom line for me. Yeah, No, I don't
Speaker 3: know what, Yeah, I don't know how to rehab that
Speaker 3: because it's it's I'm the one bringing it to the table.
Speaker 1: You know, you turned someone too often and you you
Speaker 1: change their character and you know the core of what
Speaker 1: drives him without I mean, at least in that this
Speaker 1: character came sprung from fans rejecting him, and we can,
Speaker 1: you know, critique why or you know, evaluate why that happened.
Speaker 1: But there's a there's a it didn't. He didn't just
Speaker 1: show up one day going now I'm a new character.
Speaker 1: He was like, oh, you're gonna boom me. You know
Speaker 1: you don't understand. I mean, there's you could write an
Speaker 1: essay explaining for school why Seth Rawlins is who he
Speaker 1: is now compared to who he was a year ago.
Speaker 1: So at least they have that going for them. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure if Lacy Evans is heading back heel if
Speaker 1: being cheated out of a karaoke contest when is has
Speaker 1: the depth that we need compared to maybe the Seth transition.
Speaker 3: So weird. I like, small things can work. I mean
Speaker 3: one of my one of my favorite and it was
Speaker 3: a small, small thing. But it's like you need somebody
Speaker 3: like Christian to pull it off. But like I remember
Speaker 3: God years ago, God, it's like ten years ago now,
Speaker 3: Like he gave Seamus a potato is like a peace offering,
Speaker 3: and I just remember being like that, this is like
Speaker 3: the funniest, most ridiculous thing. Like I was like that worked.
Speaker 3: There is there is that pro wrestling element of but
Speaker 3: you do you need because Seamus was not He's He's
Speaker 3: got a lot of personality, but especially then, you know,
Speaker 3: I mean this is ten years ago. He was you know,
Speaker 3: brand new and probably worried that he was going to
Speaker 3: make a mistakes. You know, anybody who gets brought into
Speaker 3: that place does. But the uh, the thing that worked
Speaker 3: there was something too like that. Who was it? Who
Speaker 3: was it that was in the They were like in
Speaker 3: competition for like a like a Japanese shampoo commercial or something.
Speaker 3: Was it like Booker T and Edge or somebody? Or
Speaker 3: do you remember this? This was like twenty years ago now, No,
Speaker 3: do you remember this? Like I remember Jijii was like
Speaker 3: directing the commercial or running the auditions or something. Somebody
Speaker 3: was I'm sure people listening or screaming it. Yeah, But
Speaker 3: so look forward to a weekend full of tweets of
Speaker 3: people being like it was Booker T and Edge? How
Speaker 3: do you not remember this, but like small things can. It's,
Speaker 3: in my opinion and my experience, wrestling works well when
Speaker 3: the stakes aren't so high. You know, the someone's eyesight
Speaker 3: is maybe too high of a stipulation, the custody of
Speaker 3: a child is too high of stakes. But it's there
Speaker 3: was something that almost worked about it, as goofy and
Speaker 3: nonsensical as it was. But I don't know. I don't
Speaker 3: know if the karaoke thing is is I guess we'll
Speaker 3: have to see where it goes. But there is there
Speaker 3: is precedent for it working. But again, it always depends
Speaker 3: on the performers. And Lacy's not, you know, the greatest,
Speaker 3: let's say, but I don't know, man, I never say never.
Speaker 3: That's the number one rule. That's the number one rule
Speaker 3: Pro wrestling.
Speaker 8: For more great pro wrestling talk, then join me Jason
Speaker 8: Powell host him the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast.
Speaker 8: Each week, he'll hear the latest news and analysis from
Speaker 8: me and my team at pro Wrestling dot Net, along
Speaker 8: with other pro wrestling media members. Plus the Pro Wrestling
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Speaker 8: the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and iTunes, Stitcher, downcast and
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Speaker 8: PW boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom dot com.
Speaker 1: All right, let's uh, let's jump to a few places
Speaker 1: we go. Well, we'll stick with one of the main
Speaker 1: Drew McIntyre defending the WWE title against Delf Zigler. I
Speaker 1: think Dahl's been doing some of his better work. He's
Speaker 1: not yelling at us needlessly to try to emphasize his points.
Speaker 1: He's got a backstory with Drew. He's someone you want
Speaker 1: to see get beat up to me for a July
Speaker 1: you know, Midsummer pay per view. There's a backstory. Dolt's
Speaker 1: being annoying. It gives drough a hopefully solid, clean, decisive
Speaker 1: win over someone who can take great bumps and make
Speaker 1: him look like a million bucks. I'm okay, I'm okay
Speaker 1: with this so far. How about you?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, at first, I was like, when Dolph came
Speaker 3: out as the challenger, it was like, come on, just
Speaker 3: because he's he's the perfect example of somebody that to
Speaker 3: come the gas on and off of so many times,
Speaker 3: and it was like ten years ago, it was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: at ten years ago, it was like, all right, it'll
Speaker 3: be fine because he's going to be the top guy.
Speaker 3: Someday he's going to be the top heel or babyface
Speaker 3: or whatever. And then it just kept not happening, and
Speaker 3: they just kept He was always the example too that
Speaker 3: I would hear Vince like be like, oh, you can
Speaker 3: recoup anyone, you can rehab anybody, you can rebuild anyone.
Speaker 3: And it's like, yeah, but it's the boy who cried Wolf,
Speaker 3: Like You're like, nobody, nobody thinks that Dolf has a
Speaker 3: chance of winning that title. The only thing that's compelling
Speaker 3: to me is it's gonna be a great match. It
Speaker 3: won't have that could he win heat to it? But
Speaker 3: I mean again, anything can happen. But I don't see
Speaker 3: put it this way, I don't see Drew losing the
Speaker 3: belts until you know there's a COVID vaccine, Like, I
Speaker 3: just don't see them. And then by them, I mean
Speaker 3: Vince moving on to somebody else is like, you know,
Speaker 3: the face of things, it's just I just don't. And
Speaker 3: his coronation was I mean, poor Drew. It's just you know,
Speaker 3: he's doing great stuff and and Dolf is doing great
Speaker 3: stuff too, and I and I love the Heath Slater promo.
Speaker 3: But the you know, thet look bell, the bell, that's
Speaker 3: gonna be a great match. I would think I'm expecting
Speaker 3: it to be. I hope that I'm not disappointed, because
Speaker 3: typically expectations can do that sometimes with w W A.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean, it's it's it's it's it's a
Speaker 3: transition pay per view, and who knows, maybe Randy will
Speaker 3: get involved and then it'll be a bunch of you
Speaker 3: know bs leading into that, because it seems it seems
Speaker 3: pretty well agreed upon that that must be the direction
Speaker 3: they're going for SummerSlam. But who knows. We'll see how.
Speaker 1: Good has Randy been lately, by the way, I mean
Speaker 1: really good.
Speaker 3: I mean the the I mean him and Edge had
Speaker 3: such a great match. I feel like they could have
Speaker 3: just I mean, but you know, poor Edge, she came
Speaker 3: back just for this, you know, to get all you know,
Speaker 3: dinged up again. But you know that the thing with
Speaker 3: Randy is he's just he's so good, but he doesn't
Speaker 3: have to work for his spots, and so he can
Speaker 3: go into cruise control sometimes and it doesn't feel like
Speaker 3: it doesn't feel like a Randy Savage where he would
Speaker 3: save things for the big shows, and sometimes he'd be like,
Speaker 3: Randy's got a better match them than that Randy Savage.
Speaker 3: I mean, where you watch Randy Orton and you know
Speaker 3: that he's got a better match in it in him
Speaker 3: than that. But it's it's it makes me wonder is
Speaker 3: it that he's saving it or is he just kind
Speaker 3: of checked out? And there are times when, I mean
Speaker 3: most of the time with Randy, it feels like he's
Speaker 3: a little checked out. But I don't know, maybe just
Speaker 3: the fact that he's another one that's I recommend following
Speaker 3: him on Instagram. He's just and his wife they are
Speaker 3: they really cracked me up. He's Randy is always having
Speaker 3: a good time or he's always like he's always going
Speaker 3: to point out he's like, well, my my private jet whatever.
Speaker 3: He's just like, it's just he's perfect for that. But
Speaker 3: you know, as of late, he has been very compelling.
Speaker 3: You know, I tend to agree with you. So let's
Speaker 3: see hopefully like a big well, I guess what I
Speaker 3: was trying to get up before, is I wonder if
Speaker 3: he is enjoying there not being fans there. You know,
Speaker 3: he seems like the kind of guy who just you know,
Speaker 3: you always see him kind of like turn his shoulder
Speaker 3: to the audience of just like just get it, get
Speaker 3: out of here, just let me do my thing. So
Speaker 3: and then the fact that you know he can kind
Speaker 3: of you know, the that that it is the developmental
Speaker 3: talent is the you know, buy and large the audience.
Speaker 3: Now there is a I don't know, I think that
Speaker 3: I think he gets off on bull bullying. Might be
Speaker 3: too strong award, but then you know, you look at
Speaker 3: that exchange he had with what's his name, you know,
Speaker 3: grabbing him screaming at him that thing. But I don't know,
Speaker 3: I think he gets off on that like yeah, like
Speaker 3: you people have to cheer for me type of thing.
Speaker 3: But like like like like we were talking about with Rollin's,
Speaker 3: I think Randy is somebody who can very quickly turn
Speaker 3: on the audience and be like screw you, like with
Speaker 3: the light, you know, like that thing that happened at
Speaker 3: Mania last year, or it was like people were being blinded,
Speaker 3: and then like he was just furious that It's like
Speaker 3: how dare you stop paying attention to my match type
Speaker 3: of thing. Whatever. I think he's also I don't know
Speaker 3: that he's a perfectionist, but he might be because there is.
Speaker 3: There is that tendency of like people who I either
Speaker 3: want it perfect or I don't want to do anything
Speaker 3: at all.
Speaker 1: His Instagram living room is pretty perfect.
Speaker 3: I mean that's that's the bottom line. I think there is.
Speaker 3: I think there is a lot of that, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 3: but I'm digging it.
Speaker 1: So let's see. We have not talked about Apollo Cruise
Speaker 1: and MVP for the US title. MVP has been a
Speaker 1: pleasant surprise for me, how about you, dude.
Speaker 3: We were just talking about this time we watched wrestling.
Speaker 3: Vince was like, can you believe a year ago, a
Speaker 3: year and a half ago, we were sitting at our
Speaker 3: table at Wrestle kan and MVP was the table next
Speaker 3: to us that in a year he would be having
Speaker 3: like this second run, this like huge revival on WWE.
Speaker 3: And I love it. And he's great, he was always great,
Speaker 3: And I just dig it, man, I I love that
Speaker 3: he's you know, getting this this you know, this kind
Speaker 3: of rebirth, you know's and he's been really good, you know.
Speaker 3: I just I'm very very happy for him in particular. Yeah,
Speaker 3: for sure.
Speaker 1: Anytime you're watching ww E Raw or SmackDown or aw
Speaker 1: Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've got
Speaker 1: thoughts on the show or a topic you want us
Speaker 1: to address or a question for us. Wadekeller Podcast at
Speaker 1: pw torch dot com. Wadkeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com.
Speaker 1: If there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that
Speaker 1: you want us to address on our main podcast during
Speaker 1: our mailbank segments, that same email applies Wade Keller podcast
Speaker 1: at pw torch dot com. We invite that interaction. Let
Speaker 1: us know what you think of what we're saying, and
Speaker 1: let us know what you want us to talk about
Speaker 1: and ask us specific questions. Wadkeller Podcast at pw torch
Speaker 1: dot com. The MVP is that just sort of they're
Speaker 1: setting them up for Paula Cruz to beat him, and
Speaker 1: it's pretty straightforward and they move on.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Or do you think, though, what's the story arc with
Speaker 1: Apollo Cruise and how do you feel about them bringing
Speaker 1: him back to you talk about you know, maybe Randy
Speaker 1: not liking having a crowd. I bet a Polo Cruse
Speaker 1: is a number one guy in line for that, because
Speaker 1: the audiences were not giving him a chance and it
Speaker 1: kept derailing what was otherwise I think good baby Face
Speaker 1: work on his part, not great, but good, and now
Speaker 1: he's having a chance to kind of without the crowd
Speaker 1: not reacting and vinsco and pull the plug, pull the
Speaker 1: plug on this, you know, the bagwell Booker moment. He's
Speaker 1: getting it, actually get some TV time and maybe earn
Speaker 1: through just persistence their respect to the fans that maybe
Speaker 1: deserves us the spot that he has right now.
Speaker 3: No, I haven't even thought about that, but I think
Speaker 3: you just nailed it, because it's like, yeah, he was
Speaker 3: the again the start and stop, and he's somebody that
Speaker 3: I used to see at PWG all the time and
Speaker 3: always really liked that. He just seems when we seen
Speaker 3: him at indie shows, he seems so comfortable and effortless
Speaker 3: in the ring. And it's just that thing at WWE
Speaker 3: when they get inside somebody's head and it's just like,
Speaker 3: you know, I just hate it when it becomes obvious
Speaker 3: that they are in their heads that they've gotten I mean,
Speaker 3: it's kind of that thing that's like it reminds me
Speaker 3: of every time Rick Flair tells the stories about being
Speaker 3: in WCW in the nineties when he went back and
Speaker 3: it was just like they just slowly chipped away at
Speaker 3: his confidence, and all of a sudden he's just like,
Speaker 3: I don't know how to Like, of all people, Rick
Speaker 3: Flair Is just gets to the point where he's like,
Speaker 3: I don't know how to wrestle. I don't know how
Speaker 3: to do this anymore. It's like that is that these
Speaker 3: are artists. They're athletes, but they're also these are very
Speaker 3: sensitive artists who are doing their thing. And I mean
Speaker 3: when I work there, I was blown away at how
Speaker 3: insecure the wrestlers are. And but it made total sense
Speaker 3: once I once I saw it. I was like I
Speaker 3: remember saying to like friends at Stanancho's, I'm like, they're like,
Speaker 3: how are the wrestlers. I'm like, they're more insecure than
Speaker 3: comedians and they couldn't believe it. And I was like, look,
Speaker 3: you don't put on three hundred pounds of muscle because
Speaker 3: you're comfortable with who you are. You know, so on
Speaker 3: top of being a performer, they're also athletes. It's just
Speaker 3: this perfect marriage of of and it's and it's and
Speaker 3: it's it's much like stand up there is that the
Speaker 3: crowd reaction is instant approval. You know, you're living and
Speaker 3: dying on the approval of the audience of the gratification
Speaker 3: of you know, the just it's it's it's a complete
Speaker 3: art form centered on acceptance. You know. It's the same
Speaker 3: thing with with with live comedy, where you're just like,
Speaker 3: you know, give me that laugh, Okay, now give me
Speaker 3: another one. You know. Oh they're not laughing as much.
Speaker 3: Oh God, they hate me. And so I think I
Speaker 3: think he nailed it. I feel like Apollo. God, I hope,
Speaker 3: because it's once you get the old man behind you,
Speaker 3: if if you're not a new toy, and he doesn't
Speaker 3: get bored, you know, like a Damien Sandou he was.
Speaker 3: He's one of the worst tragedies of w W because
Speaker 3: he came in, you know, not to sound like Miley Cyrus,
Speaker 3: but he came in like a wrecking ball and he
Speaker 3: he was he was able to He was the voice
Speaker 3: of Vince. You know, Vince didn't write those promos, but
Speaker 3: that was like Vince loves this because this is how
Speaker 3: Vince views the common man, you know. And then eventually
Speaker 3: he got bored. And then Damien was never the same,
Speaker 3: you know. He he jobbed out to d X on
Speaker 3: RAW one thousand and then never recovered and again with
Speaker 3: somebody that I don't even know. I don't I wouldn't
Speaker 3: even I wouldn't even say that he visibly lost his
Speaker 3: confidence on TV because he didn't everything they gave him
Speaker 3: to do, he excelled at like even like when he
Speaker 3: was Missus Stunt Double. That was one of those things
Speaker 3: where I was just like talk about taking you know,
Speaker 3: chicken shit and turn it into chicken salad, that type
Speaker 3: of thing where it's just like in anyone else's hands.
Speaker 3: It's like it's like the undertaking gimmick. It's like no
Speaker 3: one else could have made that work. And I don't
Speaker 3: think anyone else could have made the Stunt Double work.
Speaker 3: It was just like, you know, and and again it
Speaker 3: was just like that's another one of the tragedy I
Speaker 3: mean whatever. I mean, it's it's a shame that NWA
Speaker 3: Power is is, you know, on permanent hiatus because there
Speaker 3: were so many guys you know, Aaron included, but like
Speaker 3: you know, the Eddie Kingston's or everybody on that roster.
Speaker 3: I was just like so happy that they were getting
Speaker 3: a platform and getting exposure because it's just like like
Speaker 3: when I heard that Aaron was basically he's like, oh,
Speaker 3: I'm done with wrestling I'm just going to go into acting.
Speaker 3: It broke my heart because I'm like, he could have
Speaker 3: been the top, Like he just needs somewhere to perform.
Speaker 3: Just let him be a top guy. I don't know
Speaker 3: if Apollo's Apollo is someone like like I was talking
Speaker 3: about before when they did the NX, you know, kind
Speaker 3: of Vignanza profiles like who is this guy his sit
Speaker 3: down interview talking about his story and his family life
Speaker 3: growing up, and I'm like, this guy is compelling, you know,
Speaker 3: and he's got the look and he's got the moves.
Speaker 3: It's just like, how is he not Vince's guy?
Speaker 8: You know?
Speaker 3: So hopefully hopefully that changes. Hopefully that gets to that point,
Speaker 3: because I feel like he could go it off if
Speaker 3: they don't, you know, start playing pack men inside his
Speaker 3: head and just god, that place man, they just get
Speaker 3: He's not having a miss for years. It was like
Speaker 3: Miss was like a top heel, and then he beats
Speaker 3: scene at Mania. Then he was like he was number
Speaker 3: one on the PWY five hundred, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: it's like then he couldn't get anything right. It was
Speaker 3: just like that place we'll get inside your head and
Speaker 3: turn your brain into Swiss cheese and then blame you
Speaker 3: for not having the confidence that you used to it.
Speaker 3: It's mind boglin, mind boglin.
Speaker 1: What's the upside with Bobby Lashley? And is it with
Speaker 1: MVP long term?
Speaker 3: I feel like it's got a I don't I don't know.
Speaker 3: Bobby's not somebody that I don't know, man, Because it
Speaker 3: was like I was never a regular viewer of Impact. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but when I would see the clips of Lastly, I
Speaker 3: was like, I couldn't believe it was the same guy.
Speaker 3: It did feel like it didn't feel like WWE had
Speaker 3: gotten in his head. It just felt like he got
Speaker 3: to go away and find himself and TNA was a
Speaker 3: was a good place for that. But it was like
Speaker 3: like with Christian, I couldn't believe it when like at
Speaker 3: first I was like, oh God, the top heels Christian,
Speaker 3: And then I would see his work and I was like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, he is a top guy. You know,
Speaker 3: why did I not see it before? And then he
Speaker 3: came back to WWE and just couldn't quite break that
Speaker 3: ceiling and him and Randy had like Orton had like
Speaker 3: the best match of whatever year that was. It was
Speaker 3: twenty ten or twenty eleven I can't remember, but and
Speaker 3: then the one More Match gimmick. It was just like
Speaker 3: Christian was just you know, so when Lastly came back
Speaker 3: and this is an awkward time, and you know, they
Speaker 3: immediately saddled him with you know, the that Lana Russev
Speaker 3: gimmick and it's just like this is weird. Why are
Speaker 3: you doing it this way? I don't know it's it,
Speaker 3: but it reminded me of that guy leaves, becomes something amazing,
Speaker 3: comes back and then they're like, eh, you're just gonna
Speaker 3: be you know. It's like with John Morrison's gedible to me.
Speaker 3: He leaves for years, just like builds this rep and
Speaker 3: he's just you know, he's Johnny everywhere Johnny. And then
Speaker 3: he comes back and just like mmm, I see you
Speaker 3: tagging with mis It's like, oh my god, Vince, this
Speaker 3: this this you know, fixation on, like, let's do what
Speaker 3: we did before. I don't know, I don't care as
Speaker 3: long as you're not working for somebody else, I don't
Speaker 3: care what he does. You know.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I'm Chris Maitland and I'm Justin McClelland we host
Speaker 9: Wrestling Coast to Coast where we scour the wrestling scene
Speaker 9: to find the best wrestling from the smallest places. There
Speaker 9: are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling coast
Speaker 9: to coast is here to discover the men and women
Speaker 9: who could be big time stars in.
Speaker 1: A few years.
Speaker 10: There are plenty of podcasts to voters to w W
Speaker 10: and AW, but what's happening in the armories and gymnasiums
Speaker 10: low We're wrestling hotspots around the country.
Speaker 9: We can't wait to help you find the true hidden
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Speaker 1: No, I mean Beyond Wrestling out of Worcester, Oh right.
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Speaker 1: Okay, how about the women's title match is intrigued me
Speaker 1: in terms of to where the belts end up. I
Speaker 1: could see Nikki Cross becoming do B smack Down Women's
Speaker 1: Champion and Sasha becoming RAB Women's Champion, to flip the
Speaker 1: dynamic between Sasha and Bailey. I could see other scenarios too,
Speaker 1: but that's the one that kind of intrigues me and
Speaker 1: I first of all, let let's focus on what do
Speaker 1: you think of Nikki lately and what do you think
Speaker 1: of that Sasha Bailey dynamic. Do you think that it's
Speaker 1: it's week to week, it's it's an example of a
Speaker 1: master plan or do you think that they're kind of
Speaker 1: shifting as they go a little bit based on that
Speaker 1: just their their take on how things are developing between them.
Speaker 1: So take either first, but cover both.
Speaker 3: I I love the idea of shifting the dynamic. You know,
Speaker 3: Bailey doesn't have the belts and then Sasha does. It's
Speaker 3: I I have no concept and like of when they're
Speaker 3: finally going to pull the trigger on the two of
Speaker 3: them going into a feud. It just it may just
Speaker 3: never happen. It is one of those Vince McMahon's things
Speaker 3: of like, ah, you gotta take him for a ride,
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, like now we're just lost.
Speaker 3: We're laws in the car. I don't feel a master
Speaker 3: plan just because of who we're talking about and how
Speaker 3: long this. I mean the fact that like like years
Speaker 3: ago or however long ago it was when Bailey beat
Speaker 3: up Sasha and it was like, finally they're doing this thing,
Speaker 3: and then it just funnels into you know, doctor Shelby sketches.
Speaker 3: I was just like, man, I did not see this coming.
Speaker 3: It was just like, no, they're not broken up. They
Speaker 3: just got to fight. Women fight. So because that's the
Speaker 3: other element too, It's like Vince does not give Vince
Speaker 3: is a promoter, give him something to promote. He promotes
Speaker 3: a main event. That's it, that's the whole card. And frankly,
Speaker 3: the truth is he promotes the men's wrestling and the
Speaker 3: women's wrestling is is a secondary thought if it's even
Speaker 3: a thought in his head, and the way he will
Speaker 3: change those storylines on a whim speaks to how little
Speaker 3: thought he gives it. That said, I would love to
Speaker 3: see the belt switch for that dynamic in the storytelling.
Speaker 3: Who knows where we'd get a payoff. But then you
Speaker 3: could do the same thing with Nicki and Alexta. And
Speaker 3: I love Nikki and I've loved Nicki since, you know,
Speaker 3: I first saw her on NXC. I was like, this
Speaker 3: is different, interesting, and it works. And then even transitioning
Speaker 3: away from just being like a you know, an NX
Speaker 3: teacher was just like a wet grumlin, like that was,
Speaker 3: you know, and then actually giving her her you know,
Speaker 3: some color in her face and the coffee cup and
Speaker 3: like she can actually have a conversation with people. I
Speaker 3: love it so But again, if we now have two
Speaker 3: different tag teams doing this, you know, one's a singles
Speaker 3: champ and the other one isn't growing the animosity one
Speaker 3: is gonna win out or don't put it past Vince
Speaker 3: to do the exact same angle with two different matches
Speaker 3: and think nobody's gonna notice. So it's interesting, it'll be
Speaker 3: interesting to see how it plays out. But that when
Speaker 3: it comes to the women's wrestling, the the unpredictability factor
Speaker 3: of Vince goes through the roof because it's he gives
Speaker 3: so little thought that the contradictions abound always always, you know.
Speaker 1: Are you if Sasha goes babyface alt in this if
Speaker 1: that is where they end up? Is do you think
Speaker 1: Sasha's shown that she's kind of at a different level
Speaker 1: right now with Bake Becky you know, gone indefinitely, Rondo
Speaker 1: Charlotte gone for a short you know, short amount of time,
Speaker 1: and Rona Rolsey got that they've opened things up and
Speaker 1: there's a spot to be had, and Sasha has a
Speaker 1: passion for this. Sometimes it works against her, you know,
Speaker 1: behind the scenes, but uh, and and even on camera.
Speaker 1: But I wonder if this isn't an opportunity over the
Speaker 1: next year for Sasha to become the alpha of the
Speaker 1: entire WWE women's landscape. I I'm seeing her grow and
Speaker 1: she's still pretty young. I'm seeing her kind of grow
Speaker 1: into this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I think that you're right because Vince has
Speaker 3: never understood Osca. It's she is not his uh you know,
Speaker 3: she's not niage, you know, and hopefully then will hopefully
Speaker 3: they just ease off on Nya being you know, Vince's
Speaker 3: idea of what a woman rustler needs to be. But
Speaker 3: you know that's just Vince's Vince. But Sasha is in
Speaker 3: a great spot because she's she's just so good and
Speaker 3: like you said, there's just I don't know, I mean,
Speaker 3: the Charlotte is always like it just always feels like
Speaker 3: she's kind of the you know, the chosen one. Uh,
Speaker 3: She's she actually, no, I think about it. She feels
Speaker 3: like the at least in the company's view, she's the
Speaker 3: Randy Orton equivalent of just you know, the old reliable,
Speaker 3: will always get it and always be given the golden ticket.
Speaker 3: I can't speak to whether she has the same attitude
Speaker 3: as like a but that being said, she definitely prefers
Speaker 3: to be a heel the same way Randy does. And
Speaker 3: then even when both of those wrestlers have booked his babyfaces,
Speaker 3: they'll go out there and just cut heel promos and
Speaker 3: then I'm left confused at home on my couch. And
Speaker 3: then but they're so you know, they walk on water
Speaker 3: with the people up top, that there's no resolution to it.
Speaker 3: So that is interesting too. But with Sasha, I think
Speaker 3: the sky's the limit because she's got everything. She's got,
Speaker 3: the look, she's got, the she's got the the the passion,
Speaker 3: she's got the mic skills, she's got the ring skills,
Speaker 3: and then it's just give her some opponents, you know,
Speaker 3: and they can do.
Speaker 1: Her.
Speaker 3: And Bailey, you know that's already you know, Steamboat and Flair,
Speaker 3: you know. So it's just like we're just waiting to
Speaker 3: get back there because they their matches, you know, from
Speaker 3: back in the day, but now you know, some of
Speaker 3: the best stuff I've ever seen man or woman. But
Speaker 3: it's I'm just I don't know, I love that. That's
Speaker 3: something that's it's almost like we should get a Bailey
Speaker 3: and Sasha program, you know, once a year, and then
Speaker 3: they become friends again and it goes back into the rivalry.
Speaker 3: It's just like it's I can watch those two rest
Speaker 3: of all day. It's like Punkin' Brian or you know,
Speaker 3: Kurt Angle and Ben Wah. Not watch any Ben wa
Speaker 3: matches anymore. I just can't. But you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: it's that flare Steamboat thing.
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Speaker 1: what's been the journey that you've been on with Bailey
Speaker 1: in this empty arena era? Because you know, she and
Speaker 1: Sasha were sort of, you know, kick things off in
Speaker 1: that eerie, creepy, disconcerting SmackDown without a crowd, and I
Speaker 1: think she's grown a lot, and I think as a heel,
Speaker 1: I'm more interested in her now than I was, you know,
Speaker 1: even before the pandemic. How about you like what's her
Speaker 1: trajectory now is what hasn't been And where do you
Speaker 1: see her going in the next year or two even
Speaker 1: as a as a valuable player in the women's vision.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Yeah, she's like she if they could
Speaker 3: figure out a way, Yes, I think she's doing her
Speaker 3: best stuff. I think that the you know, the hug
Speaker 3: the Hug Girl thing had you know, didn't hadn't translated
Speaker 3: onto the main roster, and she needed something and she
Speaker 3: needed something quick. And as far as like, you know,
Speaker 3: it makes me think of like the Undertaker with It's
Speaker 3: like it's such a rigid character and then he needed
Speaker 3: something to refresh it. I was never a fan of
Speaker 3: the American Badass, but it was like, fine, he needed something.
Speaker 3: And then when he finally went back to you know,
Speaker 3: the dead Man or the Gunslinger or the hybrid type
Speaker 3: thing of it. You know, I always preferred Undertaker when
Speaker 3: he was the Undertaker the dead Man, and not not
Speaker 3: the times where it felt like he was a UFC
Speaker 3: guy whose nickname was Undertaker. You know, with Bailey, I
Speaker 3: feel like this works a lot better than the American Badass,
Speaker 3: if there is a way, And I would never put
Speaker 3: it this way, if I was at WWE. I wouldn't
Speaker 3: pitch this because I would be terrified of them screwing
Speaker 3: it up. But there is with the new haircut and
Speaker 3: the new attitude, and very quickly with the haircut, she
Speaker 3: was you know, Aunt Pam or whatever. She just looks
Speaker 3: like you know, she aged herself like twenty years and
Speaker 3: the fact that she's a heel. There is something they
Speaker 3: could do if they could figure out a way to
Speaker 3: like make her like like on Twitter where just this
Speaker 3: year where it turned into you know, the the the
Speaker 3: angry white woman just became called Karen. If we could
Speaker 3: turn that into Dailey's characters, or she's constantly where she's
Speaker 3: constantly trying to get the baby faces in trouble with
Speaker 3: like she's always calling, for lack of a better term,
Speaker 3: she's she's always calling the cops on the baby faces.
Speaker 3: She's always trying to get everyone else in trouble. She's
Speaker 3: like halfway there. They just need that, you know, she
Speaker 3: needs to be a tattletale.
Speaker 1: Need to do that. We need where she's asking to
Speaker 1: see the manager.
Speaker 3: Exactly, Yeah, I want to speak to the general manager.
Speaker 3: You know that that's she's just constantly complaining, Uh, that
Speaker 3: thing I feel like that's the perfect progression for her character,
Speaker 3: and she's she's she's almost there already, but like, yeah,
Speaker 3: we just need that because there's nothing better than a
Speaker 3: than a heel when they have something to complain about. Yes,
Speaker 3: I always felt that that was the case with Miz
Speaker 3: and I feel like that's the place that like the
Speaker 3: Bailey character can go because she you know, people already
Speaker 3: have that feeling when they look at her of like
Speaker 3: this woman has never bitten into a piece of food
Speaker 3: and not complained, you know that type of thing. Maybe
Speaker 3: you have those vignettes where like they just go out
Speaker 3: to lunch or something. I mean, yeah, if well, you
Speaker 3: know whatever, you can't go out to lunch anymore. But
Speaker 3: they are in Florida, so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but at any rate, Yeah, so what match you're
Speaker 1: looking for to most, now that we've talked about the
Speaker 1: six advertised matches at this.
Speaker 3: Point, I mean the Swamp just because I think the
Speaker 3: cinematic stuff is I've found it very enjoyable. I'm intrigued
Speaker 3: about the eyeball match, but you know, just out of
Speaker 3: you know, I love going to bad movies, and that's
Speaker 3: what it feels like it might turn out to be.
Speaker 3: The probably the best bell. The bell will be Drew
Speaker 3: and Dolph, but it's it's again, you know, who knows
Speaker 3: what will happen? I mean, Sasha and Oscar. It's like,
Speaker 3: come on, like, that's that's my dream match. Give them
Speaker 3: forty five minutes, you know, just just you know, lead.
Speaker 3: Hopefully we don't get inundated with Priest show matches and
Speaker 3: then a like a like alls in the card is
Speaker 3: like three times as long with unadvertised matches. If we
Speaker 3: could leave it with this card and give those matches
Speaker 3: some time, particularly the singles title shots, it could be
Speaker 3: an all time classic. But you know, I'm a dreamer.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 11: Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back,
Speaker 11: relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share
Speaker 11: your passion.
Speaker 5: Do you want to be topped off the ledge after
Speaker 5: a segment that has you wondering what the heck are
Speaker 5: they thinking?
Speaker 11: Do you want to join a discussion on what AW
Speaker 11: is doing right and what they could do to improve?
Speaker 11: Then join me Joel and me Greg for.
Speaker 12: The All Elite Conversation Club every Friday on the PW
Speaker 12: Torch Live cast. Fee search pw Torch in your podcast
Speaker 12: app and subscribe to PW Torchdaily Cast or stream our
Speaker 12: shows directly from pw torch dot com. Find full details
Speaker 12: on the PW Torchdailycast lineup at PW torchdailycast dot com.
Speaker 1: We now move into the VIP exclusive aftershow portion of
Speaker 1: the program with bonus content as I talk with Matt
Speaker 1: about ae W versus NXT, including his thoughts on how
Speaker 1: AW has done so far promoting some of its top stars.
Speaker 1: So here we go this exclusive segment just for VIP members.
Speaker 1: We again just your thoughts off topic on the AW
Speaker 1: NXT battle on Wednesday nights, and just how you're feeling about.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's the greatest time to be a
Speaker 3: wrestling fan. We're so I mean, we can't go, we
Speaker 3: can't and the you know, the the no fans watching
Speaker 3: it was awkward. I feel like I've gotten used to it.
Speaker 3: I feel like put it this way. When New Japan started,
Speaker 3: I was like, God, they rely so little on the crowd,
Speaker 3: and some matches they do, but more times than not,
Speaker 3: I was just like, Ah, this is just such a good,
Speaker 3: solid wrestling. I don't care that there's not an audience.
Speaker 3: In fact, it reminded me of watching old Japanese footage
Speaker 3: where the people would just be quiet the whole time.
Speaker 3: Aew right away, I felt like I loved the heels
Speaker 3: on one side, baby faces on the other side. I
Speaker 3: love that it almost got to the point where I
Speaker 3: was like, God, I'm going to miss this one. Like
Speaker 3: they go back to having fans, Like, I feel like
Speaker 3: there should still be cinematic matches once in a while,
Speaker 3: even when fans come back. I still feel like there
Speaker 3: should be you know, for lack of a better term,
Speaker 3: dojo matches where it's just like heels on one side,
Speaker 3: baby faces on the other. It's just like I love
Speaker 3: they created an atmosphere that was fresh and compelling. I
Speaker 3: think when it comes down to it, I prefer Dynamite
Speaker 3: to NXT because NXT still has that, you know, it
Speaker 3: still has that WWE feel, which is not always a
Speaker 3: bad thing, but there is just something about the plastic
Speaker 3: look of the lighting. Yeah, the you know, the the
Speaker 3: the audience. I I hate the way that WWEE lights
Speaker 3: their shows and going live. It's very frustrating if you
Speaker 3: have like a red or a blue light like flooding
Speaker 3: your vision. I remember we went to something. Was it
Speaker 3: a house show or was it a taping, but like
Speaker 3: it might have been a house show and they had
Speaker 3: like the dumb lighting on and then for the main event,
Speaker 3: they switched off the lighting and they did classic lighting
Speaker 3: where the crowd was dark and it was just spotlight
Speaker 3: on the ring. And dude, let me tell you, this
Speaker 3: is at the Staples Center. As soon as those lights
Speaker 3: shut off and they did it the way that you're
Speaker 3: supposed to light a wrestling show, there was an audible
Speaker 3: sigh of relief from the entire arena. Wow. Like it's
Speaker 3: one of those It's like when there's an annoying sound
Speaker 3: outside and you don't realize what a relief it is
Speaker 3: that it's gone until it's gone, Like you could see again,
Speaker 3: you know. So at any rate, there is the that aspect,
Speaker 3: the phony crowd aspect on NXC. I'm not digging in,
Speaker 3: but there's also this that there's that thing of as
Speaker 3: great as Adam Cole and Keith Lee was, there still
Speaker 3: is that thing of they have to do with the
Speaker 3: WWE way. And I'm constantly worried, like who's going to
Speaker 3: be scooped up, Who's going to be brought up to
Speaker 3: the main roster to be buried next? You know, like
Speaker 3: like somebody on on We Watch Wrestling, we did we
Speaker 3: do a Q and A on our Patreon, Somebody's like,
Speaker 3: what do you think is going to happen to the
Speaker 3: Undisputed era? And I'm like, maybe maybe one of them
Speaker 3: will get a push on the main roster for a
Speaker 3: little while, But I like, I honestly the best case
Speaker 3: scenario with those guys, and those those are like my
Speaker 3: favorite guys. I think everybody feels that way. But it's
Speaker 3: like they're just like I don't need them to be
Speaker 3: some badass action on two of five lives, and that
Speaker 3: feels like the best a scenario for them. So there
Speaker 3: is that there is that feeling of impending doom when
Speaker 3: I watch NXT that I don't have for ADW because
Speaker 3: that's the last stops.
Speaker 1: It's like being a fan of a small market sports
Speaker 1: team when you know your star is gonna sign as
Speaker 1: a free agent with Miami or New York or LA
Speaker 1: or Chicago.
Speaker 3: Yet because when I watch MJF and Jungle Boy and
Speaker 3: I see the potential of like, gosh, they're going to
Speaker 3: be huge someday, when I watch NXT, I'm scared for them,
Speaker 3: you know, And so it holds me back. It's like
Speaker 3: that old thing of like in every Vietnam movie, the
Speaker 3: major's like, I don't learn the names of the new
Speaker 3: guys because eventually, you know, it's just because the turnover
Speaker 3: and the death rate of just like, well, why am
Speaker 3: I gonna why am I going to endear myself to
Speaker 3: this guy if he's just gonna get buried? You know,
Speaker 3: it's one of those things I just don't want to
Speaker 3: get my heart broken constantly. There is that aspect to
Speaker 3: it too, plus a w SIS pressure. You know, it's
Speaker 3: just it's just not an instant man show. Even though
Speaker 3: he's very limited, he's not involved in NXT, but there's
Speaker 3: still is it's still a w w E show, So
Speaker 3: it still has those fingerprints all over it.
Speaker 1: Sports Entertainment Championships Opportunity. Yeah, I mean yes, there's a bird,
Speaker 1: a bird's nest full of baby birds falls out of
Speaker 1: a tree every time Maorrow Ronaldo's Sports Entertainment the Uh,
Speaker 1: how do you grade a few of these aw wrestlers
Speaker 1: compared to your expectations going into it? In last October,
Speaker 1: Kenny Omega, Ah.
Speaker 3: He's cooled off. I mean he's cooled off far to say, I.
Speaker 1: Mean great, some great matches, But who is Ian? He
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like a star now, it doesn't. I don't
Speaker 1: know if he can even become a star now after
Speaker 1: what after him just self indulgence, goofing off and acting
Speaker 1: self entitled to great pops every time he comes out
Speaker 1: not working. He's just he's good. He's you know, he's
Speaker 1: good for some good minutes in the ring, But who
Speaker 1: is he? And he there's nothing about him that said
Speaker 1: I'm a star and I'm hungry to prove it to
Speaker 1: a larger audience of the United States. Nothing.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't give it a nap, yeah, but I do
Speaker 3: give it like a C or C minus because I'm
Speaker 3: still there's I feel like one of two things is happening,
Speaker 3: or maybe both. It's just he's in a holding pattern
Speaker 3: for big matches down the line, or it also feels
Speaker 3: like it reminds me of like kind of a ton
Speaker 3: of Hashi, where I'm just like, is he just so
Speaker 3: beat up and hurt that he's just trying to stay
Speaker 3: on the show when he can and he's just healing
Speaker 3: up most of the time. That's my concern, But my
Speaker 3: hope is that it's just My hope is that we
Speaker 3: are looking at long term storytelling and that this thing
Speaker 3: with him and Hangman is headed somewhere spectacular and it's
Speaker 3: one of these things. I have faith that with a
Speaker 3: w because it is there's a lot of like that
Speaker 3: New Japan thing where you can look back, like I'm
Speaker 3: interested with like Evil now, like looking back like where
Speaker 3: where did this start?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 3: Is there were there pieces that were there that I
Speaker 3: didn't see, right, I don't know. It's always interesting or
Speaker 3: it could have just been a hot shot thing. I
Speaker 3: honestly don't know, Like where he ghetto is in a
Speaker 3: bind and he's like, I got it. We need a topy,
Speaker 3: we need him now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this felt like that famous Bill Watts UWF episode
Speaker 1: where like all the titles changed hands on one show.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like, let's just shake things up with evil.
Speaker 1: But then you know, yeah, it's it's it's New Japan.
Speaker 1: So you figure, you know this, this had to be
Speaker 1: a hand that they at least had considered and set
Speaker 1: the table for.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I'm curious because like those four months or
Speaker 3: whatever where they were off. Yeah, it's like I'm sure
Speaker 3: that there were things in place that we might have
Speaker 3: gotten to the destination without taking all of the urns.
Speaker 1: And you know what, if you have J White, that
Speaker 1: could change everything, you know what I mean, just one
Speaker 1: guy who's not there, how many how many of the
Speaker 1: people who aren't there led to the lay of the
Speaker 1: land and going, yeah, let's I think the card I
Speaker 1: want to play to create a buzz and get back
Speaker 1: in the news and you know, save some other things
Speaker 1: for later. But do this now, you know, I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can imagine the process being or that I can
Speaker 1: imagine this weekend, this past weekend playing ou dramatically differently
Speaker 1: if they had access to just J White or everybody
Speaker 1: who they don't.
Speaker 3: Right now, Yeah, yeah, I think So.
Speaker 1: We're about to go to a commercial break. Why let's
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Speaker 1: to treat yourself to a streamlined, add and plug free
Speaker 1: listening experience with a VIP or Patreon membership. How do
Speaker 1: you great Young Bucks?
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean maybe maybe I don't know, maybe
Speaker 3: an ay, and just because it's still like when they're
Speaker 3: it's just it's one of these things though. Where they are,
Speaker 3: they are doing a great job the company of building
Speaker 3: of new stars. And if it's at the expense of
Speaker 3: the big stars they had coming in, I don't know
Speaker 3: that that's the necessarily the case with like Cody or Jericho,
Speaker 3: who've been consistently positioned in like a top thing. But
Speaker 3: the Bucks once they get in the ring are still
Speaker 3: killing it. But they are. It's just it's interesting again.
Speaker 3: I feel like it's got to be going somewhere because
Speaker 3: it's like, how have they not been you know, how
Speaker 3: are they not the tag champs type of thing? But
Speaker 3: it's like, I don't know, when they finally get to
Speaker 3: them in the FDR, I think that'll be super cool.
Speaker 3: You know. Obviously them Kenny and Hangman had like the
Speaker 3: craziest tag match. I mean, it's just like it's undeniable.
Speaker 3: So it's like they I think that I think that
Speaker 3: the company is doing a good job. I think I
Speaker 3: would give them an a minus because I think that
Speaker 3: it's another piece in this thing where they're not giving
Speaker 3: everything away right away and we are so used to god,
Speaker 3: twenty five years of hot shot booking to the point
Speaker 3: where I've seen it. I've seen the match already. Like
Speaker 3: I remember when I was at WWE, and it was
Speaker 3: like they were trying so hard to keep like it
Speaker 3: was Alberto and somebody. I don't know if it was
Speaker 3: Alberto and Sina or Alberto and Orton, but there was
Speaker 3: or maybe even Alberto and Punk. There was somebody that
Speaker 3: it was like they were trying so hard to keep
Speaker 3: those two apart so that they had a marquee match
Speaker 3: at some point to get to on a big show.
Speaker 3: That it's just because you look at look at WWE
Speaker 3: when when they do the Mania, more times than not
Speaker 3: they are bringing back old talent because the new talent
Speaker 3: isn't over and they've wrestled everybody, and then the only
Speaker 3: way to get a fresh, interesting match is to bring
Speaker 3: someone out of retirement. So there is this thing of
Speaker 3: the way that Dynamite is doing it. They are building
Speaker 3: the new stars, which then builds intrigue to well, god,
Speaker 3: I finally when we finally get to you know, and
Speaker 3: we're not even a year in, but it's just like
Speaker 3: when we finally get to like MJF and Kenny having
Speaker 3: a few, and it's just like that doesn't even seem
Speaker 3: like it's in the cards right now, but it's like
Speaker 3: that'll be a killer thing someday, maybe even in like
Speaker 3: two or three years. It's like there's no rush because
Speaker 3: they're doing such a good job building the rest of it.
Speaker 1: Do you think somebody who started watching dynam I from
Speaker 1: the beginning but hadn't watched the Elite or any of
Speaker 1: the content from the Top Stars before that, and was
Speaker 1: also tempted to watch NXT, do you think the young
Speaker 1: bucks have been established like who they are and given
Speaker 1: somebody knew a reason to become a big fan of theirs,
Speaker 1: Because that's what concerns me about Aw's. I think there's
Speaker 1: this they're surrounded in a bubble by people who worship them,
Speaker 1: and it's this tiny minuscule number relative to where Dynamite
Speaker 1: should be given the talent that they have. And I
Speaker 1: don't feel like with Kenny and the Bucks in particular,
Speaker 1: those two that there's been to me a self awareness
Speaker 1: of having to start from ground zero and rebuild and
Speaker 1: establish who they are with this whole other, vast, potential,
Speaker 1: larger universe. And I feel they both kind of walk
Speaker 1: out there like they're hot shit and just watch us
Speaker 1: and it'll become obvious. It's self apparent because look at
Speaker 1: how much the people who have seen us love us,
Speaker 1: And I just don't see aw putting in the elbow
Speaker 1: grease to establish who they are and frame them as stars.
Speaker 1: And when I do watch some of the glossier content
Speaker 1: that WNNXT put together, I want to see that done.
Speaker 1: It's not about fast forwarding the booking, you know, or
Speaker 1: hot shotting, but it's about framing and presenting some of
Speaker 1: their top guys as big stars. And I don't know
Speaker 1: that Dynamite spent in that game, is even playing that
Speaker 1: game or believes it's important, and that frustrates me a little.
Speaker 3: Well. That was That's kind of how I was introduced
Speaker 3: to the Bucks. I just started going to indie shows
Speaker 3: and they got to Killer Reaction. They would come out
Speaker 3: and recida, you know, a PWG, and I had maybe
Speaker 3: i'd seen them once before at a Ring of Honor,
Speaker 3: like years before and didn't even remember, and it was
Speaker 3: one of those things where they won me over. I
Speaker 3: was like, I was like, I'm not a part of
Speaker 3: this world. I'm not well versed, and you know, I
Speaker 3: just I was just going to shows and then I
Speaker 3: got to know them through their matches. But I think
Speaker 3: ultimately what we're talking about is the difference between a
Speaker 3: promoter and a booker, because they have a booker or
Speaker 3: at least you know a group of them on aew
Speaker 3: whereas WWE has a promoter. So, like Vince put it
Speaker 3: this way, trivile h answers to Vince, no matter how
Speaker 3: much freedom he may have with NXT, He's got to
Speaker 3: do a WWE show, and Vince gives give Vince something
Speaker 3: to promote, and that's what he does. Typically, his approach
Speaker 3: would be building around one star, like a Stone Cold
Speaker 3: or or a Hulk Hogan. That's what he learned from
Speaker 3: his old man, built around Bruno. More so, now Vince
Speaker 3: builds around the WWE is the star. He's getting a
Speaker 3: little but but still there was the John Seen is
Speaker 3: the top guy, Rome's the top guy, Drew's the top guy.
Speaker 3: There's lack. There's less of a like who's the top
Speaker 3: guy in ae W you know, it's it's there's not
Speaker 3: you could say, well, it could be this guy, Well
Speaker 3: it could be that guy. It's like, but there's not.
Speaker 3: There's not one singular, which has its drawbacks too, because
Speaker 3: if you build everything around one guy, it's like, well
Speaker 3: what if that guy fucking leaves? You know that, you
Speaker 3: know that's the bottom line. But with I don't know
Speaker 3: that there's ever been a wrestling promotion that you know,
Speaker 3: had a group of you know, vern ganias who are
Speaker 3: running it because it's You've got Cody the Buck, Kenny
Speaker 3: like that, those are the those are the bookers, and
Speaker 3: you know I got Tony Kahan too. But it's like
Speaker 3: it's there is and and they're they And the fact
Speaker 3: that they're approaching it in a way of we're not
Speaker 3: out of the gate, going to build everything around us.
Speaker 3: I think you're right though that, But they are relying
Speaker 3: on the rep that they've already built. But I can
Speaker 3: speak from my own experience that I didn't I tuned.
Speaker 3: I became a part of their fandom after other people
Speaker 3: and granted when I came in in like a you know,
Speaker 3: two thousand and twelve, twenty thirteen, it was like that's
Speaker 3: when particularly those guys were building steam, and that's around
Speaker 3: the time that you know, maybe a year or two
Speaker 3: after that is when you know, Cody left and went
Speaker 3: on his you know, journey into the desert. But it
Speaker 3: was like, so I've been there from the beginning and
Speaker 3: a little bit before the beginning. But there is also
Speaker 3: just I don't know, they're just doing such a good
Speaker 3: job building younger guys and newer guys or like like
Speaker 3: even just like I don't know, it's just there is
Speaker 3: something that I have more faith.
Speaker 1: What I don't want is because they're EVPs. They like,
Speaker 1: we don't want to be the guys who over push ourselves.
Speaker 1: And if there's any tension or eye rolling about Cody
Speaker 1: and how he carries himself and presents himself, you know,
Speaker 1: talking about Randy Orton's Instagram, you know, only the best
Speaker 1: food for my dog. You know, it's like Cody that
Speaker 1: he projects himself as a big time star. And I'm
Speaker 1: not saying that the Bucks should be that or Kenny
Speaker 1: should be that. They should be you know, men of
Speaker 1: the people, but there I would think you'd be frustrated
Speaker 1: watching the Bucks in what you know that they can
Speaker 1: be sort of shoulder struck their way through these these
Speaker 1: early you know, months of AW just showing up and
Speaker 1: throwing super kicks and not really having any kind of
Speaker 1: I mean, if if the Bucks were hired and we're
Speaker 1: and we're working for a promoter who you didn't think
Speaker 1: believed in them, this is what they would have done
Speaker 1: with them, and we're all sitting or going it's genius
Speaker 1: or well, not all, but you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: people are sitting here going, oh, it's it's part of
Speaker 1: a long term plan, and it's because they don't want
Speaker 1: to show that they have a big ego and oh
Speaker 1: just wait. It's but to me, I'm like, I'm waiting
Speaker 1: for AW to do something that takes some production effort
Speaker 1: and some forethought that takes advantage of what the Bucks
Speaker 1: can be and what Kenny can be, and I I'm
Speaker 1: not I'm seeing a push that to me reflects a
Speaker 1: booker who doesn't believe in them, which of course is
Speaker 1: crazy because they're the bookers.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's well, that's the X factor is because
Speaker 3: it because it is them making that call, it lends
Speaker 3: itself to well, there has to be a bigger plan
Speaker 3: here or there is it's because it's it's it's clearly
Speaker 3: the answer is not the person in charge doesn't have
Speaker 3: faith in them, so then we're left with the other solutions.
Speaker 3: So it's it's I think it only lends itself to
Speaker 3: the idea that you know, there's a there's a method
Speaker 3: to this, and I look, I'm like it has to
Speaker 3: be that they are interested in building up, you know,
Speaker 3: because look at it this way, going into a e
Speaker 3: W when we didn't know what that was, when when
Speaker 3: it was just a T shirt company, you know, it
Speaker 3: was like, well, who the hell are their opponents going
Speaker 3: to be? Are they just going to wrestle each other?
Speaker 3: So now they're spending this time building those opponents, and
Speaker 3: if they come in out of the gate, just well
Speaker 3: we're beating everybody. And and you can make the argument
Speaker 3: about like well what you know, people come bringing in
Speaker 3: people just to lose to like Moss or or Cody
Speaker 3: or whatever. It's just like, I don't know, it's there
Speaker 3: is a certain to a certain extent, it's like, well
Speaker 3: you have to stay I don't know if that's the balance,
Speaker 3: that's that's the tightrope walk of booking wrestling, because it's like,
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, somebody's gotta lose and
Speaker 3: somebody's got to win, and you have to you know.
Speaker 3: That's that's that's the art of it of like what's
Speaker 3: gonna work, what's gonna help, what's gonna hurt, you know,
Speaker 3: and then how do we move on from here? But
Speaker 3: I do love it, but I think for me, I
Speaker 3: think there is also the aspect of I've been watching
Speaker 3: WWE for so long and only WWE for so long
Speaker 3: that seeing somebody on TV doing a different way of
Speaker 3: booking pro wrestling is taking some getting used to because
Speaker 3: I can only see it through that WWE lens and
Speaker 3: it's like, well, if this was Vince doing it, it
Speaker 3: would mean this, whereas now there's new meeting.
Speaker 5: Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn
Speaker 5: some wrestling history, don't miss the nineties Past Cast. Every
Speaker 5: Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed, Alex and
Speaker 5: Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by
Speaker 5: taking you through the Torch issue from that very week.
Speaker 5: Follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the
Speaker 5: happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as
Speaker 5: The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties
Speaker 5: pass cast every Friday or the PW Torch Daily cast feed.
Speaker 1: I think the booking flosph with aw and that that
Speaker 1: approach that's different than WWE is being under Uh. There's
Speaker 1: more potential than they're getting out of it. And I
Speaker 1: think I mean, like, I think if they had done
Speaker 1: things better, they would be at a million viewers right
Speaker 1: now on their live wed sight shows. Like I think
Speaker 1: they're with the talent they have and with all the
Speaker 1: things that you're talking about that are that are assets
Speaker 1: that that differentiate them, I feel like they're sort of
Speaker 1: riding coasting on that and instead of turbocharging it. And
Speaker 1: that's so I'm not saying like refine it and plastic
Speaker 1: eyes it and sports entertain it, but take what you
Speaker 1: have and brand it and not branded in the extreme
Speaker 1: rules horror show way or the pipe bomb throwing superstar,
Speaker 1: but have something that you your fans can look at
Speaker 1: and and identify as, Yeah, this is why I'm wearing
Speaker 1: an a w T shirt when I go out. And
Speaker 1: I think there's a what we do speaks for itself
Speaker 1: is a pervasive attitude right now with too much of
Speaker 1: that company, a complacency of we have arrived and now
Speaker 1: we will unveil who we are and they will come.
Speaker 1: And I don't see this sense of other than you know,
Speaker 1: announcers telling us how great the Bucks and FTR are.
Speaker 1: You know, I just I don't know. I just I
Speaker 1: see more potential in what they're doing. And I see NXT,
Speaker 1: you know, right there neck and neck with them, and
Speaker 1: with all the you know, advantages and disadvantages NXT has
Speaker 1: for the things that we already talked about, I just
Speaker 1: feel like a W has the ability to pull ahead,
Speaker 1: and they aren't doing the things that they could. And
Speaker 1: part of that is maybe maybe in a year it
Speaker 1: all plays out and we're like, okay, all those people
Speaker 1: are saying, no, it's part of a long term master plan.
Speaker 1: Maybe it'll all work out, you know. And I've been
Speaker 1: hearing that since week one and week two, when people
Speaker 1: were like, wait a second, Kenny Omegas part of the company,
Speaker 1: John Boxley's part of this company. Why are we not
Speaker 1: learning about them? You know? After three weeks it was like,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of great things about this show, but
Speaker 1: there's some warning signs too, And I don't know that
Speaker 1: we're pat I don't know that they've there's been some
Speaker 1: long term but obviously with Hangman Page, some of that
Speaker 1: stuff got derailed because of the pandemic and not drop
Speaker 1: not flying everyone into Florida and stuff. So I give
Speaker 1: them slack on that on that front. But I just
Speaker 1: want to see him turn it up, you know. I
Speaker 1: want to see more Evo Grise. I want to see
Speaker 1: about his azz. I want to see I want them
Speaker 1: to take some of the time producing self indulgent goofball
Speaker 1: YouTube videos that just look like amateur ur or for
Speaker 1: guys who are out of work and trying to have fun.
Speaker 1: Take that time and energy and make dynam I don't
Speaker 1: we're a polished product.
Speaker 3: Now. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I
Speaker 3: mean again, but it is it's like we were how
Speaker 3: many weeks away from you know, the War Games match,
Speaker 3: and then everything, you know, It's like reminded me of
Speaker 3: of you know, everything got unplugged, like when there's a
Speaker 3: lightning store my mother running around the house, I'm plugging everything.
Speaker 3: That's what happened to everyone's stort. I know. Yeah, But
Speaker 3: like I did make this point not too long ago
Speaker 3: and we watched wrestling. It's like, with Cody, you've got
Speaker 3: somebody who like it. I'm like, because we were talking
Speaker 3: about like the open invitation and you know, he's booking
Speaker 3: himself to be over and maybe like taking himself out
Speaker 3: of the main event the heavy White title thing. Was
Speaker 3: that virtuous or was it virtue signaling or who knows what?
Speaker 3: And now he's you know, just killing everybody. I'm like, well,
Speaker 3: you know, he learned how to book wrestling from Dusty
Speaker 3: Rhodes and so this is a very dusty way to
Speaker 3: book himself. But it's but it's still it's so But
Speaker 3: that all said, I still love it and I'm still
Speaker 3: such a huge fan of Cody because the promo work
Speaker 3: is phenomenal, the in ring work is phenomenal, and there
Speaker 3: it's again I feel like it's going somewhere. I don't
Speaker 3: know what yet, but it's it's very interesting and still
Speaker 3: just even just the in and of itself, like the
Speaker 3: press conference with the you know, the picture at the
Speaker 3: end with him and Swagger, him and Hagar where it's
Speaker 3: just like it's just like literally that night on NXC
Speaker 3: they were doing a contract siding and it's just like
Speaker 3: that is the most boring played out. Why are we
Speaker 3: like nobody does that? Like they don't they don't sign
Speaker 3: the contract for the Super Bowl on the field and
Speaker 3: then all and the game breaks out every single time.
Speaker 3: It's like, but I love the way that the press
Speaker 3: conference was presented. I'm like, this actually feels real. This
Speaker 3: feels like and because that's one of my favorite things
Speaker 3: with New Japan is that their promos. Once in a while,
Speaker 3: you get somebody after a match grab the mic and
Speaker 3: okada like Evil the other night, that type of thing,
Speaker 3: cut a promo, but it's usually after their match. They
Speaker 3: come in and it's a press conference. They've got a
Speaker 3: backdrop or even better, stitting at a table full of microphones.
Speaker 3: I love that. That feels legit to me, you know.
Speaker 3: So there are those things where it's like, look, I
Speaker 3: don't know where some of the planning storytelling is going.
Speaker 3: It feels like eventually we're going to get that huge
Speaker 3: hangman turn. Who knows what that means for who he's
Speaker 3: gonna align himself with. Eventually? Is Arn't gonna turn on Cody?
Speaker 3: You know? Is he gonna pair back up with Tully?
Speaker 3: Like I don't know. There's so many. I just I'm
Speaker 3: excited because it feels like they're placing pieces on the
Speaker 3: game board and then suddenly something's gonna hit and there's
Speaker 3: going to be some to do. I don't know what
Speaker 3: it is, but I'm excited to be a part of it,
Speaker 3: and I can't wait for it to happen. But the
Speaker 3: small thing like the having you know, like the press
Speaker 3: conference instead of a contract signing, I love that having
Speaker 3: people come out and cut an entering promo and they
Speaker 3: don't get attacked, they don't get interrupted. It's just a
Speaker 3: promo with a beginning, a middle, and an end and
Speaker 3: then we move on to the next segment.
Speaker 1: Which ironically was a problem early because AW had a
Speaker 1: streak of like thirteen or sixteen promos in a row
Speaker 1: that were interrupted and then they like got criticized for it.
Speaker 1: And there's less of that now, you know. So yeah, yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I'm Wednesday. It's our blast. I mean, it is an
Speaker 1: embarrassment of riches in a lot of ways. And I
Speaker 1: don't think either as much as you know, I kind
Speaker 1: of go week by week there Sometimes it depends on
Speaker 1: my mood. But you know, sometimes I like NXT a notch,
Speaker 1: your too better. Sometimes AW a not youre too better.
Speaker 1: Sometimes one frustrates me a little more than the other.
Speaker 1: I think a w is a little more erratic and
Speaker 1: NXT a little more, a little more polished and knows
Speaker 1: what it is. Uh, And that can be good or bad,
Speaker 1: you know, depending on uh you know, the week and
Speaker 1: the and the matches and the show in the particular
Speaker 1: week show. But AW still has a lot of room
Speaker 1: to change them.
Speaker 3: No, that's it. I mean when you're doing when NXT
Speaker 3: is doing a WWE show, there is the flip side
Speaker 3: of that where it's like they know what their voice is,
Speaker 3: you know, whereas AW might still be trying to figure
Speaker 3: out who they who they are.
Speaker 1: And that's fun to watch. And yeah, there's a grit,
Speaker 1: more of a grit and less of a sports entertainment
Speaker 1: corporate polish to it, and and and that that is
Speaker 1: an asset. But I do I think there's a few
Speaker 1: pieces that are resting on their laurels or or not
Speaker 1: aware that there's an extra million people out there who
Speaker 1: they could win over if they if they seem like
Speaker 1: they care enough to try. But anyways, and we quick
Speaker 1: yeah invite you to email the show with feedback or
Speaker 1: questions or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast
Speaker 1: at petwtorch dot com. That's Wade Keller Podcast at PW
Speaker 1: torch dot com. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. Even
Speaker 1: follow us on Twitter at pw torch and follow me
Speaker 1: at the Wade Keller. That's at PW torch and at
Speaker 1: the Wade Keller.
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