WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:02.879 One benefit of VIP membership is access to our back 2 00:00:02.919 --> 00:00:08.519 issue library, contemporaneous in depth insider reporting on pro wrestling 3 00:00:08.919 --> 00:00:11.759 in real time over the past thirty plus years and 4 00:00:11.759 --> 00:00:13.599 throughout the year twenty twenty two. We're going to begin 5 00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:16.000 our march through the year two thousand and two with 6 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:20.839 back issues posted each week in PDF and all text formats. 7 00:00:20.839 --> 00:00:22.440 You can read it in a PDF format with our 8 00:00:22.440 --> 00:00:26.120 original magazine slash newsletter style layout on your screen and 9 00:00:26.160 --> 00:00:29.320 flip through the pages, or you can read a straightforward 10 00:00:29.399 --> 00:00:31.960 all text format on your phone or tablet or laptop. 11 00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:33.960 The back issues early in two thousand and two covered 12 00:00:33.960 --> 00:00:37.200 the arrival of Scott Hall, Kevinash, and Holkogan to WWE 13 00:00:37.479 --> 00:00:40.520 and all the controversy that came with them, plus my 14 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:43.880 cover story that broke the news on the planned launch 15 00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:47.200 by Jerry and Jeff Jarrett of a promotion called TNA. 16 00:00:47.920 --> 00:00:49.920 Also the early two thousand and two features are two 17 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:52.759 thousand and one Year in Review features, including ranking Pro 18 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:57.280 Wrestling's most influential powerbrokers and our Torch year end awards, 19 00:00:57.679 --> 00:01:01.119 the year in Quotes, and the top fifth stories ranked 20 00:01:01.119 --> 00:01:03.960 in order from the year two thousand and one. So 21 00:01:04.079 --> 00:01:06.959 go vip and dive into our back issues. We have 22 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:09.120 most of our back issues available as soon as you 23 00:01:09.159 --> 00:01:11.400 sign up, with new back issues week by week from 24 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:13.439 the year two thousand and two, one at a time 25 00:01:13.640 --> 00:01:16.560 throughout the year twenty twenty two. PW torch dot Com 26 00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:19.920 slash go VIP. PW torch dot Com slash go VIP. 27 00:01:20.200 --> 00:01:24.879 That's pwtorch dot Com slash go vip for full information 28 00:01:25.400 --> 00:01:28.560 and our sign up form. It's more than podcasts, it's 29 00:01:28.920 --> 00:01:32.680 an unmatched library of wrestling history spending more than three decades. 30 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:35.599 As soon as you sign up, with more issues added 31 00:01:35.719 --> 00:01:36.400 throughout the year. 32 00:01:47.799 --> 00:01:51.280 Now, PW Torch and Speaker bring you the Wide Keller 33 00:01:51.319 --> 00:01:55.000 Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for this week's Interview Classic 34 00:01:55.079 --> 00:01:59.079 where Wade Keller Interview is one of pro Wrestling's newsmakers. 35 00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:05.599 Five years ago. This week I brought on as a 36 00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:09.000 guest ex WWEE Creative Team member Matt McCarthy, a frequent 37 00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:11.960 guest on the Way Keller prog Wrestling podcast, and we 38 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:15.039 always talk about a wide variety of aspects of pro wrestling, 39 00:02:15.039 --> 00:02:17.159 and in this episode we hit a variety of them, 40 00:02:17.159 --> 00:02:21.159 including the cinematic style matches that WWE had turned to 41 00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:24.680 during the pandemic, and Mett McCarthy, who, by the way, 42 00:02:24.719 --> 00:02:27.039 is a professional stand up comedian. He's been on Conan 43 00:02:27.159 --> 00:02:30.199 O'Brien and many commercials over the years, but also worked 44 00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:31.360 behind the scenes of DEBI to be in a big 45 00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:35.520 progressing fan, provided his insight into WWE's booking approach from 46 00:02:35.560 --> 00:02:37.960 his experience working there and observing them for a very 47 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:40.800 long time for each of the scheduled matches on the 48 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:45.879 upcoming Horror Show at Extreme Rules pay per view, I 49 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:48.879 had kind of forgotten about that. He also talks about 50 00:02:48.919 --> 00:02:51.639 the booking strategy going into the Drew mcintarytell Zigler match, 51 00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:53.360 the I for an I match with Roy Mysterio and 52 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:56.759 Seth rollins a Paula Cruise against MVP Oscar against Sasha 53 00:02:56.800 --> 00:02:59.560 Banks for the Raw title, and also Bailey versus Nicky 54 00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:01.879 Cross for the SmackDown title. And then in the previously 55 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:05.360 VP exclusive after show portion, we talked about the AW 56 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:08.560 versus NXT battle to date so far less than a 57 00:03:08.599 --> 00:03:11.960 year in with a focus on aw's production values in 58 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:15.000 grading their presentation of several of their top stars. So 59 00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:18.039 a wide ranging interview here with Matt McCarthy hope you enjoyed. 60 00:03:18.039 --> 00:03:18.159 It. 61 00:03:18.159 --> 00:03:22.319 Originally dropped on July sixteenth, twenty twenty and it is 62 00:03:22.360 --> 00:03:25.960 today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling podcast Interbey Classic for Thursday, 63 00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:36.479 July seventeenth, twenty twenty five. Cinematic wrestling is back to 64 00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:41.680 Sunday at Extreme Rules, Horror Show or Horror Show Extreme Rules, 65 00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:46.520 take your pick. The swamp match. Matt, Do you have 66 00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:50.800 high expectations for this and where are you on this 67 00:03:50.800 --> 00:03:53.680 this decision to do more cinematic wrestling, especially on the 68 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:55.439 part of WWE during this pandemic. 69 00:03:56.080 --> 00:03:59.520 Oh god, well, I love it. I love the cinematic wrestling. 70 00:04:01.400 --> 00:04:06.039 I mean I loved, you know, the Hardy Compound when 71 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:08.800 when that was happening years ago, I loved, you know, 72 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:12.520 I well, what was the one it was like it 73 00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:14.400 was it was gold I mean it wasn't gold dust, 74 00:04:14.479 --> 00:04:20.319 it was dust. And then somebody at a w CW 75 00:04:20.439 --> 00:04:26.319 paper Whew, they fought on the back of a flatbed truck. Yeah. 76 00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:29.600 Even yeah, Roddy and gold dust. Yeah, I guess it's 77 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:32.720 funny to think gold dust is kind of the was 78 00:04:32.759 --> 00:04:36.639 the father of these things with those back to back, 79 00:04:36.680 --> 00:04:40.720 but at any rate, yeah, I mean, the swamp match. 80 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:46.480 I don't know, we'll see it. Put it this way, 81 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:50.399 with a j and Undertaker, I didn't know what a 82 00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:53.240 boonyard match was. And I loved it. I loved it 83 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:58.519 up and down and all around. And there really wasn't 84 00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:01.959 There really wasn't any goof to it at all. When 85 00:05:04.040 --> 00:05:11.160 when it's Bray and Braun, I worry about there being 86 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:16.680 some goofiness to it, just just because Braun, I mean, 87 00:05:16.959 --> 00:05:24.879 Braun's kind of goofy, and Vince makes him into such 88 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:30.720 a you know, superman, that there are going to be 89 00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:34.839 illogical feats of strength. I would assume, you know that 90 00:05:34.839 --> 00:05:37.839 that happened just on that would happen on raw like 91 00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:41.839 on a good day, bron Strowman, you know, can lift 92 00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:47.439 fifteen tons of steel. But the I don't know. The 93 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:52.879 only thing that I don't like the regression of Bray's character. 94 00:05:53.279 --> 00:05:55.519 You know, he's back in the swamp. They just kind 95 00:05:55.519 --> 00:05:58.720 of Vince's I don't know, taking his foot. I don't. 96 00:05:59.399 --> 00:06:02.839 I don't know it's even realize that the you know, 97 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:08.720 the Fiend character even happened. I have just completely nobody 98 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:10.879 remembers he was the Fiend. He's a guy from the 99 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:16.600 slump with a hat, but I I have high hopes 100 00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:21.920 just because I think they've done a fairly good job. 101 00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:26.920 My worry is always what kind of goofy sound effects 102 00:06:26.920 --> 00:06:29.800 they're gonna use, because I assume that there is going 103 00:06:29.879 --> 00:06:32.920 to be, you know, the sounds of wildlife. I do 104 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:37.040 want Braun to wrestle an alligator at some point. I 105 00:06:37.079 --> 00:06:40.560 think it's a perfect opportunity for Steve Kern to make 106 00:06:40.600 --> 00:06:44.839 a cameo a skinner. But we'll see, we'll see, we'll 107 00:06:44.839 --> 00:06:52.120 see what happens. But I don't know the bray element lends, 108 00:06:52.360 --> 00:06:53.800 you know, just the fact that they're calling it a 109 00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:59.040 horror show. I already know what Vince McMahon's idea of 110 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:02.279 comedy is, and it's for anyone who doesn't know, it's 111 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:04.879 it's someone getting their foot stuck in a bucket. That's 112 00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:10.240 that is high comedy for Vince. But with the horror stuff, 113 00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:17.360 I mean, look, no, I was never a big fan 114 00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:21.319 of the Firefly fun House. I think that rained a 115 00:07:21.319 --> 00:07:25.560 little goofy too, but it was also you know, the 116 00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:29.560 fiend stuff was scary. So we'll see, we'll see, hopefully 117 00:07:29.560 --> 00:07:32.360 it is. You know, I don't know, they've always kind 118 00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:34.680 of done even when Randy showed up at like, you know, 119 00:07:35.160 --> 00:07:37.279 Bray's house and they had that fight in the kitchen 120 00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:39.639 and the and all that stuff. I really like that. 121 00:07:39.879 --> 00:07:42.879 So we'll see what happens with this one. But I'm 122 00:07:43.079 --> 00:07:46.959 I'm more positive on it than than I am, Like 123 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:49.759 you know, die versus eye for an eye think, but 124 00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:51.279 we'll see, We'll see what happens. 125 00:07:51.480 --> 00:07:55.240 Yeah, I think for like a Midsummer July pay per view, 126 00:07:55.439 --> 00:07:57.839 You've got Braun as your world champion, wasn't part of 127 00:07:57.879 --> 00:08:01.759 the master plan, and you want to pay that off, 128 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:06.040 probably at SummerSlam and my hunches that's when The Fiend 129 00:08:06.079 --> 00:08:09.279 comes back, and Summer Slam features broad in the Fiend 130 00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:11.680 with a title on the line. I'm okay with this 131 00:08:11.800 --> 00:08:15.480 being you know, kind of a step to get there. 132 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:18.519 I mean, to me, I mean, this pay per view 133 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:21.120 feels like Vince is just trying to figure out how 134 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:25.800 do I get to August and put together a show? 135 00:08:25.879 --> 00:08:28.279 And oh, well, let's you know you could I can't 136 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:31.240 even I mean, I can imagine, but the brainstorming session 137 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:33.320 that led to horror Show as a nickname, but this 138 00:08:33.399 --> 00:08:36.639 seems like, you know, they're they're trying to use gimmick 139 00:08:36.639 --> 00:08:39.399 agree to get you to pay attention to them right 140 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:41.320 now at a time when you know, I think they 141 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:44.360 fear your attention might wane and you might cancel your network, 142 00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:48.679 and so they want to create these curiosities and understandably so, 143 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:51.080 you know, like I mean cinematic matches. I don't think 144 00:08:51.080 --> 00:08:52.399 they're going to work really well if they go on 145 00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:55.320 when there's people who paid, you know, hundred some dollars 146 00:08:55.320 --> 00:08:57.159 for their ticket and they're staring at a big screen 147 00:08:57.559 --> 00:08:59.480 for an extended period of time. But I think during 148 00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:03.399 this era, even I I should say even I, but 149 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:07.000 like I feel like my parameters for what what I 150 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:11.159 should even not just accept be grudgingly, but embrace has 151 00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:14.480 has expanded. You know, desperate times call for desperate measures 152 00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:17.080 and doing something so outside of the box of this 153 00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:19.879 Often normally I'd be like, come on, you know, this 154 00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:23.120 is kind of undercutting the foundation of what makes kind 155 00:09:23.120 --> 00:09:26.879 of pro wrestling as a you know, structurally kind of work. 156 00:09:27.519 --> 00:09:30.120 And yet I think they get a good grade so 157 00:09:30.200 --> 00:09:31.759 far for all they've pulled it off. Actually, I want 158 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:34.480 to step back to just a wider lens for a moment. 159 00:09:34.519 --> 00:09:36.480 And you mentioned the undertake er A J. Stout saying 160 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:42.639 is is, does cinematic wrestling appeal to people who otherwise 161 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:45.840 wouldn't watch wrestling? And does it turn off people who 162 00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:49.200 have a certain idea of what wrestling should be? And 163 00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:52.879 how do you think that is playing out? Putting even 164 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:56.559 just kind of your personal enjoyment aside? Do you think 165 00:09:56.559 --> 00:09:59.360 there's a that it's bringing in new fans on the 166 00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:01.399 bright side, but it might be turning away some people 167 00:10:01.399 --> 00:10:03.399 who are like, this is not what I tune in for. 168 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:08.120 Maybe maybe I mean, there's no pleasing everybody, that's the 169 00:10:08.120 --> 00:10:11.639 bottom line. But you know, I don't know as far 170 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:15.000 as drawing and new fans, it depends. It depends on what. 171 00:10:17.200 --> 00:10:19.159 I don't know. There's so many X factors when it 172 00:10:19.200 --> 00:10:25.639 comes to what's an appeal to either. You know, hardcore 173 00:10:25.759 --> 00:10:27.960 hardcore fans are going to watch whatever. You know, they 174 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:30.960 might they might complain, but they're still going to watch. 175 00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:35.519 Traditional fans Maybe maybe they don't like it as much. 176 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:39.960 Although looking back now, where we're at an age where 177 00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:44.399 a traditional fan grew up with you know, the horsemen 178 00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:47.360 jumping Dusty in the parking lot, albeit that wasn't a match, 179 00:10:47.480 --> 00:10:51.159 but they were we were already getting into the era 180 00:10:51.399 --> 00:10:58.440 of going outside of the arena. The casual fan, it's 181 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:01.799 always a u in the air, or like the non fan, 182 00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:03.759 it's always up in the air. Because on the one hand, 183 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:09.759 I could see them digging. I could see the person 184 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:13.080 who thinks that it looks less fake than wrestling in 185 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:16.399 the ring, just because some people just conditioned to think 186 00:11:16.519 --> 00:11:22.279 wrestling in a ring is fake. And probably the other 187 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:25.480 end of that, or similar to that, would be it 188 00:11:25.559 --> 00:11:27.639 looks a little bit more like an action movie. They 189 00:11:27.679 --> 00:11:30.120 could accept that more. But I think the other end 190 00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:35.120 of that would be part of it. Part of it 191 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:38.320 could look like, you know, a fight seeing on a 192 00:11:38.360 --> 00:11:40.120 soap opera, you know what I mean, the way that 193 00:11:40.200 --> 00:11:48.240 it's shot, because it's not shot you know, like I 194 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:50.519 don't know. I mean, it's just the way that it 195 00:11:50.559 --> 00:11:55.639 looks on video although you know things because it's just 196 00:11:55.720 --> 00:11:57.840 the way that it's shot. You know, it doesn't look 197 00:11:57.879 --> 00:12:02.000 like an episode of Life Out or something or you 198 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:09.279 know whatever, law and order and stuff like that. It 199 00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:14.200 has a little bit more of a soap opera, you know, 200 00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:17.039 shot on I don't know if it's the cameras or 201 00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:22.840 sliding or if it's both or whatever, but so there is 202 00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:27.919 that aspect to it, like the aesthetic thing, but I 203 00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:36.879 mean I go off of what my wife would like, 204 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:40.519 and my wife does not like wrestling. In fact, your 205 00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:43.399 catchphrase when it comes to it is always met. I 206 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:47.840 have tried, but you know there are certain things like 207 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:51.200 you know, put it this way. I showed her Orange 208 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:54.240 Cassidy versus Pack, and then she started following Orange Cassidy 209 00:12:54.279 --> 00:12:58.279 on Instagram because she was like, this is amazing. We 210 00:12:58.759 --> 00:13:03.519 didn't watch the Boneyard match, but I could see maybe 211 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:05.720 that having some appeal. But I could also see it, 212 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:08.919 you know, she's she's just such a student of television 213 00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:13.159 that I could see her picking out the fakeness to 214 00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:17.559 it because it's strange. There is something the thing that 215 00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:21.039 makes professional wrestling that I think guys like us and 216 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:26.919 people listening appreciate is that the fact that they can 217 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:34.240 do it all in one tape to a I don't 218 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:37.480 want to say untrained eye, but people who haven't it's 219 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:42.240 an acquired taste. I think with pro wrestling compared to 220 00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:49.440 fight scenes in movies, because it's actually much easier to 221 00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:53.639 see the trickery watching like an action movie where they 222 00:13:53.799 --> 00:13:57.120 cut so much and they they shake the camera so 223 00:13:57.240 --> 00:14:00.000 much where it's like they're trying to hide those things. 224 00:14:00.759 --> 00:14:03.559 Whereas that I feel like, especially in an American audience, 225 00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:06.399 not maybe even just worldwide, because we all basically have 226 00:14:06.440 --> 00:14:12.519 the same movies and shit, have gotten used to this 227 00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:15.159 is what a fight looks like, you know, this is 228 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:20.360 what a punch sounds like, Whereas it's you know, it's 229 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:23.519 just it's it's just kind of that cherry candy thing 230 00:14:23.639 --> 00:14:27.360 like we all we all know what like, ooh, cherry candy, 231 00:14:27.399 --> 00:14:29.559 this is what but you n an actual cherry You're like, oh, 232 00:14:29.559 --> 00:14:34.039 this is not what it tastes like at all. I 233 00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:39.799 don't know, it's just I don't know what. I should 234 00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:41.600 watch the Boneyard match with her actually, just to get 235 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:45.480 her opinion on it. But I mean, it's just for 236 00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:48.960 me as a fan. I think it's exciting and they're 237 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:51.840 doing it well. And you know, because the Hearty Compound 238 00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:57.440 stuff was fun, it was and it emphasized fun more 239 00:14:57.440 --> 00:15:00.919 than anything, Whereas I think we've we're getting into a 240 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:07.600 place where basically there was no laughs in the Boneyard match, 241 00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:09.600 and I think that that works too, Like we can 242 00:15:09.639 --> 00:15:13.720 do and this is interesting that they're you know, I 243 00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:15.600 mean it's Vince Vince to the promoter, give them something 244 00:15:15.639 --> 00:15:18.360 to promote, like, Oh, it's gonna be a horror show. Yeah, 245 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:21.279 it's gonna be like Halloween. What's better? 246 00:15:21.799 --> 00:15:22.000 You know? 247 00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:25.960 I could see that. Yeah, but I like that they're 248 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:29.879 going in a different direction of not only is this serious, 249 00:15:29.960 --> 00:15:32.679 this is gonna be scary. That's that's the way it 250 00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:35.360 comes off to me. So we'll see if if if 251 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:36.120 they pull it off. 252 00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:41.799 Yeah, yep. You can support us on Patreon and get 253 00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:44.559 these shows with ads and plugs removed, The Weight Keller 254 00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:47.600 Prossing Podcast, Weight Keller Prosing post shows and the PW 255 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:51.000 Torch Daily cast throughout the week with ads and plugs removed, 256 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:54.519 plus a few bonus VIP shows throughout the month for 257 00:15:54.679 --> 00:15:56.720 just four dollars and ninety nine cents a month. Check 258 00:15:56.759 --> 00:16:00.559 it out patreon dot com slash PW torch vi ip 259 00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:04.279 that's patreon dot com slash PW toorch vi ip and 260 00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:06.960 you can also upgrade to other tiers and receive even 261 00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:14.559 more benefits through Patreon. Let's pause, ands at the table 262 00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:17.799 and introduce ourselves. This is the Wade Keller prog Wrestling Podcast. 263 00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:23.159 It's a Thursday edition previewing the Backlash Horse Show pay 264 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:26.639 per view on Sunday. The voice you hear is Matt McCarthy. 265 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:31.240 He is a frequent guest here on the Wadekeller shows 266 00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:34.039 for years and years now. Can you believe how long 267 00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:37.159 it's been met since you've worked for Dowe? 268 00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:38.799 Oh my god, it's crazy. 269 00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:43.759 Yeah, follow, you're what you're You're in a different place 270 00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:46.440 in life and uh, but what a chapter that was. 271 00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:48.919 And we've gone in depth on that multiple times in 272 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:51.480 past interviews. And it's always you always find there's always 273 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:54.879 something happening today where there's something that happened to you 274 00:16:54.919 --> 00:16:57.639 with your time on the creative team that you can pull, 275 00:16:58.039 --> 00:17:00.960 pull an anecdote or an example about man in that 276 00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:06.119 adds some color and layers in a analysis and perspective 277 00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:09.000 to why things are happening today that might be wildered 278 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:12.799 some people. So great to have you on the show, Mat, Oh. 279 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:14.519 Yeah, no, I always happy to be here. Yeah. I 280 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:22.799 was a writer for WWE there from god November twenty 281 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:26.000 eleven until October twenty twelve, when I quit moved out 282 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:29.880 to La you know, to get back into comedy. And 283 00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:31.480 I don't know if we ever even talked about it 284 00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:33.079 because I kept such a tight lid on it at 285 00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:36.000 the time. But like they actually reached out to me 286 00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:43.000 to do consulting in the very beginning of twenty sixteen, 287 00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:44.720 and I did that for two more years, where they 288 00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:46.880 would throw me some assignments. I would write things up, 289 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:51.240 so you know, not that I can take credit for 290 00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:54.480 everything that I was involved in, but you know, I 291 00:17:54.519 --> 00:17:58.160 wrote things like the Daniel Bryan Caane anger management segments 292 00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:04.920 or you know, leading up to uh MS, and like 293 00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:09.559 I wrote the Miss Maurice parodies of of of Total 294 00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:17.559 Bella's stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, yeah. 295 00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:19.960 I again, it was you know, at the time, I 296 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:22.440 was like, you know, because I'm I've been doing the 297 00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:25.920 Wee Watch Wrestling podcast since I left h w WE 298 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:30.000 and and but I couldn't report with those guys, and 299 00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:33.680 you know, I they would often often say to me, 300 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:36.359 you're the only ex writer who still loves wrestling. I 301 00:18:36.359 --> 00:18:38.759 don't know how true that is. If you follow Gen 302 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:43.799 Bloodsworth on Twitter, she's she's she's just the best. I 303 00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:45.839 didn't work with it directly, but we became we became 304 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:49.039 fast friends. Uh Once I was back on the outside 305 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:52.440 of the real world in the comedy world. But you know, 306 00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:54.599 obviously Kevin Ex still loves it too. He's over at 307 00:18:54.680 --> 00:18:59.960 Ring of Honor. But yeah, you know, lifelong wrestling fans 308 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:02.039 and uh, you know comedy actor did a lot of 309 00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:04.559 stuff with college humor. You know the Batman videos with 310 00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:06.680 Pete Holmes. I was on a p home show. That's 311 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:09.680 really what I left WW to move out here and 312 00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:13.119 do h He had a short lived talk show after Coning, 313 00:19:13.160 --> 00:19:16.960 and then I've since gotten, uh the opportunity to performance 314 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:18.880 sketches on Coning quite a bit. You know, a lot 315 00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:21.160 of commercials and you know, stand up and all that stuff, 316 00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:23.599 and always pop it up somewhere. I always every once 317 00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:25.240 in a while, the other guys will be on TV 318 00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:27.359 and I'll get a text from somebody or a tweet 319 00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:28.359 and they'll be like, oh my god. 320 00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:29.319 You know. 321 00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:33.799 So it's just a yeah, I'm a very grateful, grateful guy, 322 00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:36.839 you know. Uh, And I love pro wrestling. It's the 323 00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:39.920 greatest time to be a wrestling fan. I can't wait 324 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.240 to go back again. I guess I got to pack 325 00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:44.400 up my bag and go to an iw A South 326 00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:47.880 show or mid South show, or to go find some 327 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:51.640 GCW or something. But happy to watch it on TV. 328 00:19:51.880 --> 00:19:54.319 They won't, you can't, but you know, sneak your way 329 00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:54.799 into Japan. 330 00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:57.559 Yeah that's right, Yes, that's right. 331 00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:01.200 So plug your plug, your two Twitter, plug your projects, 332 00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:02.240 plug your podcast. 333 00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:06.920 Met Yeah. Every Wednesday new episodes of the We Watch 334 00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:13.440 Wrestling Podcast. Me and Vince April, two lifelong fans, comedians, 335 00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:16.039 best friends, and we just you know, break it down 336 00:20:16.119 --> 00:20:19.279 and talk about not just the current product, but everything 337 00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:22.839 that we're watching. We're always dipping our toes into you know, 338 00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:26.200 wwea w New Japan, but you know, we watch a 339 00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:28.559 lot of classic stuff and we we always talk about 340 00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:33.319 you know, it's it's very stream of consciousness, very all 341 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:36.720 over the place. It's just two friends, you know, hanging 342 00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:39.920 out and talking. You know this last time, God, what 343 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:43.039 do we get into on Wednesday? We were talking about 344 00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:46.000 I don't know, We're always just like goofing about like 345 00:20:46.039 --> 00:20:49.400 brock Lesnie looking for his reading glasses or like whole 346 00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:52.359 Covid leaving voicemails for vincemick Man, trying to get back 347 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:56.000 on TV and stuff. I mean, it's just like it's 348 00:20:56.279 --> 00:20:58.680 you know, and you know, and you know, I spent 349 00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:00.440 a lot of time with Vincick man, so I have 350 00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:08.960 my Vince Oh god, yes, you know. It's just it's 351 00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:10.920 a lot of fun. So so check that out. I 352 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:16.240 highly recommend it. And yeah, we watch wrestling available wherever 353 00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:18.359 wherever podcasts are sold. 354 00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:24.640 Yes, yes, all right, very good. So from a standpoint 355 00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:28.079 of more or less or just right, how do you 356 00:21:28.440 --> 00:21:31.480 rank them at this point in terms of how often 357 00:21:31.480 --> 00:21:36.000 they're going to the pre taped cinematic matches and uh 358 00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:38.079 and and how they're balancing that with sort of the 359 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:42.480 variety of approaches to doing them it is? Do you 360 00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:44.759 think they should just do more like go go more 361 00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:48.119 in or all in if you can't have, uh, you know, 362 00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:51.759 an an arena full of fans, because this works better 363 00:21:51.799 --> 00:21:54.119 than what they're doing otherwise, where are you on that? 364 00:21:56.319 --> 00:21:57.839 I don't know. I would have to see it. I 365 00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:01.960 don't know if we can do a whole pay per 366 00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:07.160 view of it, but maybe I don't know. I feel 367 00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:12.559 like doing it. It feels like they've done it maybe 368 00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:16.559 at most two matches on a card, and now that 369 00:22:16.599 --> 00:22:20.079 I think about it, it was one. I was thinking 370 00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:22.200 of Mania that they had the two, but they were 371 00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:24.880 on different nights, so it's kind of just the one 372 00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:31.400 and maybe one is enough because even though it was 373 00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:35.039 in the performance center, you know, the the Edge and 374 00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:40.079 Randy Jorton, you could make the argument was a cinematic 375 00:22:40.119 --> 00:22:42.440 match because of the cuts and the retakes and the 376 00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:47.319 you know, piped in noise and the Howard Finkle bs. 377 00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:50.839 But I don't know, like the money in the bank 378 00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:55.839 was good and bad. Like I ultimately I really enjoyed it. 379 00:22:55.880 --> 00:22:59.359 But again, when Vince goes for laughs, it's always well 380 00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:07.039 the fact guys eating food, you know. But I love 381 00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:09.720 I love going out an adventure, you know, and I 382 00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:13.359 love when pro wrestling does that for me, like I 383 00:23:13.480 --> 00:23:19.920 miss world class and the character profiles are just like 384 00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:22.960 going to the Freebird's house where they're shooting pool and 385 00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:25.359 making fun of Van Erks, you know, that type of thing. 386 00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:32.160 So I feel like there's a place for doing an 387 00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:34.960 entire match like your little mini movie on the pay 388 00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:38.920 per view, like a boneyard, like a stadium stampede. But 389 00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:42.319 also I feel like going in the direction of the 390 00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:47.400 World's Greatest wrestling match was a good direction of going 391 00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:50.519 not necessarily for the in arena matches. I think I 392 00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:53.440 still prefer a one take wrestling match, you know, warts 393 00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:56.200 and all. I'm a deadhead, like I just want to 394 00:23:56.240 --> 00:24:00.720 listen to something unedited and see did it work, did 395 00:24:00.759 --> 00:24:03.720 it not work? You know? I like that. That's the 396 00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:06.440 music of pro wrestling. It's jazz. It's if they go 397 00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:09.599 out there and they try things and sometimes it works, 398 00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:14.920 sometimes it doesn't, and that's the art in it. But 399 00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:20.240 I think the direction that they went in, what I'm 400 00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:23.200 getting at is I would love to see some more 401 00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:28.759 utilization of smaller pieces, some smaller than yettes. Not the 402 00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:33.920 vikings and the and the the what are they? It's 403 00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:38.839 not private party. They're the street profits. The street profits. 404 00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:41.759 Thank you. It's just like two teams with the same 405 00:24:41.799 --> 00:24:43.680 gimmick started at the same time. In my head, I 406 00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:48.319 don't like, wait, wait, which is a party? Yeah? 407 00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:50.279 Profit part? Is it profit party? Is it? 408 00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:53.559 The prof right? And then it's the piece, Yeah, always 409 00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:54.400 get thrown off. 410 00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:57.559 It's the private profits, off the books, the. 411 00:24:57.559 --> 00:25:02.680 Private profits, that's right. The street party, not that, not 412 00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:06.160 you know, playing flip cup and you know freeze tag. 413 00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:08.920 I don't. I don't have any room for that, but 414 00:25:09.559 --> 00:25:12.880 more of a you know, this is who I am, 415 00:25:12.920 --> 00:25:15.440 This is where I come from. This is uh because 416 00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:19.240 it's also I feel like they they I mean, Vince 417 00:25:20.599 --> 00:25:24.640 is getting too hung up on well, this is what 418 00:25:26.119 --> 00:25:29.880 people have done, and this is what we've done. And 419 00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:33.359 because I think when as a quick aside, when Vince 420 00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:35.519 gets hung up on what other people have done, he 421 00:25:35.599 --> 00:25:37.960 immediately dismisses it and says, well, we'd never do that. 422 00:25:38.359 --> 00:25:43.480 Oh God, the last thing we do. So thank goodness 423 00:25:43.480 --> 00:25:48.240 that he has been able to. Thank goodness, somebody convinced 424 00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:53.000 him that it was his idea, the cinematic matches, that 425 00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:55.799 it didn't start in W cw ort and A, that 426 00:25:55.880 --> 00:25:58.799 he's the one who came up with it or a w. 427 00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:01.319 And that Impact hasn't been doing it. Don't don't watch Impact. 428 00:26:01.319 --> 00:26:05.400 They haven't been wating it for a couple years. 429 00:26:05.640 --> 00:26:08.519 But the thing that I think is a complete disconnect 430 00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:15.480 is how good like above and beyond their documentaries on 431 00:26:15.559 --> 00:26:20.599 the network are you know, the twenty four's, the up 432 00:26:20.599 --> 00:26:25.839 close whatever it is that they don't utilize that in 433 00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:31.039 a very condensed, abbreviated form on the show. I feel 434 00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:33.240 like and T was getting a little close to doing 435 00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:37.519 that a couple of years ago, and they still do 436 00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:39.920 a little bit. But you know, I'm just thinking like 437 00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:43.480 in terms of like watching like the Our Truth twenty four. 438 00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:48.839 It's like there is so much depth to that guy 439 00:26:49.160 --> 00:26:53.039 beyond just you know, the guy who makes mistakes all 440 00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:55.000 the time all the time. You know that that that 441 00:26:55.079 --> 00:27:02.960 type of thing there is there is they There's so 442 00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:05.880 much that they could be doing that they just aren't. 443 00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:09.599 And that will never make sense to me. Why sometimes 444 00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:13.640 it's just Vince's Vince's just Vince. You know that's sometimes 445 00:27:13.640 --> 00:27:17.200 that's the only answer we get. Vince and Vince, you know. 446 00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:22.640 Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts. 447 00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:25.920 Will come join me Alan Furrel over in the Progress 448 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:29.559 Paradise at Peter botorch VIP as we ask on the 449 00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:32.279 bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the 450 00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:35.240 great matches and shows from around the world, be it 451 00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:39.759 the US, Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's always a place 452 00:27:39.759 --> 00:27:42.559 for wrestlings past in the Paradise too, and we've done 453 00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:45.640 fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series 454 00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:49.640 celebrating the glorious career of Jusian thunder Lighter and Our 455 00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:51.960 Eye Was There When shows where our guests will join 456 00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:54.400 me to talk about a classic bout that they were 457 00:27:54.400 --> 00:27:57.799 in attendance for. We Love variety and you can expect 458 00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:01.279 lots of it at the Pro Wrest Paradise. 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Well before I went back 465 00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:33.880 to the match previews for Sunday, tell me how you 466 00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:38.200 think they're doing in these last what are we at 467 00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:44.279 four months of fan free wrestling, and how it's evolved, 468 00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:48.920 how it's changed, how they have incorporated you know more 469 00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:52.599 like aw really went heavy on pre recorded segments when 470 00:28:52.640 --> 00:28:54.680 they could even record in Florida, and they did the 471 00:28:54.720 --> 00:28:56.799 Georgia thing and they just you know, the atmosphere wasn't great, 472 00:28:56.799 --> 00:28:58.200 they weren't here. How long they would need to stretch 473 00:28:58.200 --> 00:29:01.519 out the footage they had, and they did more, you know, 474 00:29:01.880 --> 00:29:04.200 memorable things that were pre taped. And now they've moved 475 00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:06.440 back to you know, on the way to the arena 476 00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:08.680 right down. Six matches and three promos. Point the camera 477 00:29:08.680 --> 00:29:10.440 at the ring, and then let's see how it plays out, 478 00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:15.240 you know, real low elbow grease production. What do you 479 00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:20.599 think of WWE specifically and how they've how the atmosphere 480 00:29:20.599 --> 00:29:24.839 has progressed with audience members and the plexiglass and the 481 00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:26.559 enhanced crowd noise and all of that. 482 00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:35.680 I mean anytime WWE, I mean, the enhanced crowd noise 483 00:29:35.799 --> 00:29:40.400 is just brutal. It just comes. I don't know what 484 00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:45.720 is going on in that truck. But like Kevin Dunn, 485 00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:51.480 I don't think he's ever heard like It's just like, 486 00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:56.200 how do you guys spend so much time traveling the 487 00:29:56.240 --> 00:30:00.279 world with live audiences and then you can't recreate the 488 00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:05.440 sound of a live audience well, you know, it just 489 00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:10.640 will never. I don't know, I don't know what it is. 490 00:30:10.839 --> 00:30:14.400 When they start using sound effects, they are the goofiest, 491 00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:18.440 fakest sounding thing I have I've ever heard. I mean, 492 00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:22.480 like when I worked there, we were doing the like 493 00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:25.519 one one raw I got a signed when Will Sasso 494 00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:28.759 and the other guys who played the Three Stooges when 495 00:30:28.759 --> 00:30:34.200 they when they did a Three Stooges remake, I was 496 00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:38.839 just mortified because I was like, they are going to 497 00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:43.200 add in like goofy sound effects to this, like I 498 00:30:43.279 --> 00:30:48.799 knew it going in and then sure enough that's what aired, 499 00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:52.759 and it was like, I don't even remember. We must have. 500 00:30:53.119 --> 00:30:55.480 I must have been in the room with with like 501 00:30:55.640 --> 00:31:00.480 Sasso and then watching it. Now, there's no way I 502 00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:05.640 would have been a gorilla. But at any rate, I 503 00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:10.440 don't remember specifically, but like SASO's a really funny guy, 504 00:31:10.519 --> 00:31:18.160 and he's he's a really meticulous performer, and it's a perfectionist, 505 00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:20.000 you know. I mean, that's the bottom line. He takes 506 00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:23.279 what he does very seriously. And I can't remember specifically 507 00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:26.680 him being like what the hell were those sound effects, 508 00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:31.279 but I'm pretty sure that that was exactly what happened, 509 00:31:31.279 --> 00:31:34.000 And I just kind of was like, dude, I'm just 510 00:31:34.039 --> 00:31:36.599 happy I didn't get yelled at. Thanks for being a 511 00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:47.240 good sport, But I mean, I don't wwe cannot help 512 00:31:47.319 --> 00:31:53.440 themselves sometimes in making the product when they try to 513 00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:58.000 enhance the hurt and when they I was such I 514 00:31:58.039 --> 00:32:01.839 was so relieved when they finally added in in audience 515 00:32:01.880 --> 00:32:04.720 members and then very quickly was like, oh, this is 516 00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:08.680 terrible because it's like it's just so fake. It's just 517 00:32:08.839 --> 00:32:12.160 it's because they're wrestlers. They're trying to get noticed. They're 518 00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:21.160 also young in the company and everybody is everybody in 519 00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:27.000 that place is terrified of making a mistake. It's like 520 00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:31.880 walking on glass. There's heat everywhere and you don't and 521 00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:36.400 there's no consistency, and you don't know how you're going 522 00:32:36.440 --> 00:32:40.000 to screw up next. But sure enough, somebody is going 523 00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:42.480 to get Like you never know what's the thing that 524 00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:46.799 Vince is going to fixate on, you know, or orkd 525 00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:49.920 or whoever whoever. You know, it just a trickles down 526 00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:56.559 and I can feel it in them trying to act 527 00:32:56.720 --> 00:33:02.480 excited during the show, and it comes off so phony 528 00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:07.319 and contrived. There's no reason, like a group of scattered 529 00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:11.920 people who aren't actually fans would start channing this is awesome, 530 00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:19.000 Like it makes it so much phonier. Whereas like, aw 531 00:33:19.160 --> 00:33:21.599 did it so well with like the wrestlers because it 532 00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:25.279 was just you know, they stayed true to themselves. It's 533 00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:29.319 like Penelope ford is on her Chaise lounge just hanging out. 534 00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:33.640 MJF is still MJF. Austin Gunn is a spas. So 535 00:33:33.759 --> 00:33:36.680 it was great you had the gun Club acting spastic, 536 00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:39.559 But like when you watch WWE, it feels like the 537 00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:43.960 entire crowd is Austin guns all just like flipping out 538 00:33:44.039 --> 00:33:47.720 and going crazy, and it's like, this match isn't that good. 539 00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:52.839 You're not actually being genuine with me about how you're 540 00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:57.079 reacting to this match. You know. It feels like it's 541 00:33:57.519 --> 00:33:59.480 it's the way people act when they know that they're 542 00:33:59.559 --> 00:34:07.359 being scrutinized, and that's you know, so it's it hurts it. 543 00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:12.440 I mean, I hope, I hope nobody shows Vince footage 544 00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:17.000 from your Japan Cup and from UH Dominion because that 545 00:34:17.239 --> 00:34:20.239 room felt full. It was a quarter capacity and that 546 00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:24.880 room felt full. And Vince is if he sees anything 547 00:34:24.920 --> 00:34:27.519 anyone else is doing, he's going to do it too, 548 00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:29.480 and he's going to do it better. It's like, oh, 549 00:34:29.559 --> 00:34:32.039 well they had a full arena, we can do a 550 00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:36.440 full arena. It does give me hope though that Mania 551 00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:42.599 will be in in LA. But yeah, but we'll see. 552 00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:45.119 I don't know. If I don't know, i'll be it 553 00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:50.760 Mania in LA. But we'll see what happens, you know. 554 00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:55.480 Yeah. Yeah, it's been it's been interesting watching this adjustment. 555 00:34:55.519 --> 00:34:59.360 It's so unprecedented to have, you know, big budgets but 556 00:34:59.480 --> 00:35:01.559 be doing udio wrestling like I'm used to low budget 557 00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:04.679 studio wrestling. I'm used to another era studio wrestling. I'm 558 00:35:04.760 --> 00:35:07.360 used to retro studio wrestling like WA Power. You know, 559 00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:09.519 that's a combination of budget and just what they're going 560 00:35:09.559 --> 00:35:14.400 for artistically. But to see what WWE with, I wouldn't 561 00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:17.639 say unlimited resources because you know, I think they're rightfully 562 00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:20.519 so little nervous about things. But but you know, in 563 00:35:20.599 --> 00:35:22.960 what AW has done with Daily's place in the in 564 00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:24.920 what they have there versus w B with with the 565 00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:30.239 PC and the evolution of the setting and what they 566 00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:33.440 did with the lighting and the staging and the camera angles. 567 00:35:33.480 --> 00:35:36.519 I mean, it is crazy different now than it was 568 00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:38.719 those you know, the on the transition in late March 569 00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:41.239 and early April when everyone was kind of shell shocked 570 00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:43.800 about this and they didn't have time to adjust. And 571 00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:47.039 I've gotten pretty used to it, you know, some of 572 00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:49.079 the critiques of how people respond, I'm with you on 573 00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:52.760 but when I'm watching a wrestling match in the big 574 00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:55.760 screen in the stages in the background, and you know, 575 00:35:55.800 --> 00:35:59.079 whether it's NXT's kind of dark background lighting or WWE 576 00:35:59.239 --> 00:36:01.599 with the you know, kind of colored high energy lights 577 00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:04.760 along the border, and then you have crowd noise. Now 578 00:36:05.079 --> 00:36:08.320 I don't I mean, obviously it would be better with 579 00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:10.480 a crowd, but I don't get hung up on it 580 00:36:10.519 --> 00:36:13.639 as i'm watching it if what they're doing is good otherwise. 581 00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:19.199 I mean, because the fact is, especially with WWE, I 582 00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:23.239 tend to watch it a little more with the volume down. 583 00:36:23.239 --> 00:36:26.480 I muted. I kind of always did, just because. 584 00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:32.280 The commentary, Matt, they've got this guy Byron who you're 585 00:36:32.320 --> 00:36:33.039 really missing out? 586 00:36:33.039 --> 00:36:39.280 Oh boy, Hey, they're just very distracted. I'll put it 587 00:36:39.320 --> 00:36:44.320 that way. And you know, it took me a while. 588 00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:51.000 I was always torn watching New Japan because whether or 589 00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:55.480 not I would watch the English commentary because I want 590 00:36:55.519 --> 00:37:00.840 to be informed and Kevin Kelly is absolute phenomenal at 591 00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:04.199 what he does. But there was I was so used 592 00:37:04.239 --> 00:37:08.840 to I just loved listening to the Japanese commentators because 593 00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:10.599 I didn't know what they were saying, so I was 594 00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:16.360 not distracted by the match, but their energy came through 595 00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:18.960 and the excitement would come through, and so it was 596 00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:23.280 very It was like this perfect it was like this 597 00:37:23.360 --> 00:37:28.760 perfect marriage of being able to watch and feel. 598 00:37:28.880 --> 00:37:32.440 But yeah, you know, well I loved it. To me. 599 00:37:33.079 --> 00:37:38.199 Do you watch the Japanese commentary on dominion or or 600 00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:40.039 did you wait for the American English? 601 00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:44.840 No? I well no, no, no, well no, I think 602 00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:48.159 which one? Did I watch one of them? I did 603 00:37:48.280 --> 00:37:52.320 watch in Japanese? Maybe it was maybe it was the finals? 604 00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:57.880 Actually what because because I loved I loved the Japanese comments, boushie, 605 00:38:01.239 --> 00:38:04.159 that was so good. That added so much to it, 606 00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:06.480 compared to the ENGOs anouncers who are like, that's not 607 00:38:06.559 --> 00:38:09.119 bougie and instead it was like this heartbroken. Could it be? 608 00:38:09.159 --> 00:38:10.639 I don't think it is? But is it? You know, 609 00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:11.159 like I don't know. 610 00:38:11.159 --> 00:38:14.480 If that was fun, that's great. Well. The one thing 611 00:38:14.480 --> 00:38:18.400 I did love is at the the EMT shows, I 612 00:38:18.440 --> 00:38:20.679 would listen to Kevin Kelly, but I could hear the 613 00:38:20.760 --> 00:38:25.599 Japanese guys background. This is perfect, which is like the 614 00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:26.360 perfect mix. 615 00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:31.360 Yeah, thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to the 616 00:38:31.400 --> 00:38:33.880 next level with a VIP membership, get shows like this, 617 00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:36.760 the Way Killer Prosing Podcast, Way Keller Prosing Post Show, 618 00:38:37.079 --> 00:38:39.800 and the pw Torch daily casts on our pw Torch 619 00:38:40.039 --> 00:38:43.559 VIP podcast feed with ads and plugs removed from the 620 00:38:43.599 --> 00:38:46.840 shows for a streamlined listening experience, and also hear the 621 00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:49.440 VIP exclusive shows that I host with Rich Fan and 622 00:38:49.480 --> 00:38:51.679 Todd Martin, Everything with Rich Fan and The Fix with 623 00:38:51.719 --> 00:38:54.519 Todd Martin's signature VIP series. That you're missing out without 624 00:38:54.559 --> 00:38:57.559 a VIP membership. So go vip here in twenty twenty 625 00:38:57.599 --> 00:39:00.719 two and enjoy all the benefits, all the ONUS content 626 00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:04.199 and the ad free listening experience. PW Torch dot com 627 00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:13.840 slash go v ip Okay, Well, I don't know where 628 00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:16.280 we are, but let'steer back to UH to All Horsees show, 629 00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:21.800 so specifically on Bray and Braun. What kind of shenanigans 630 00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:25.400 are finish or mission should there be for this match? 631 00:39:25.440 --> 00:39:27.280 I mean, it could be as simple as a self 632 00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:30.960 contained let's just have fun with the creative freedom of 633 00:39:31.079 --> 00:39:35.320 cinematic wrestling, that is, unleashing crazy ideas we could never 634 00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:39.400 execute without post editing and multiple multiple takes and all that, 635 00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:41.039 and let's just have fun with it and then go 636 00:39:41.119 --> 00:39:44.639 from there. Or is there a greater purpose storyline wise 637 00:39:44.639 --> 00:39:47.559 for the characters? Do you expect Braun to be pulled 638 00:39:47.559 --> 00:39:50.800 into Bray's web again now that he's you know, with 639 00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:54.440 the cult leader again? Who you know? Braun said, maybe 640 00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:57.119 foreshadowing I've been I've been running away from who I 641 00:39:57.239 --> 00:39:59.679 was then for a long time, almost making its on 642 00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:02.320 like it's an effort. And you know, he said there's 643 00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:05.639 things about that brawn that he enjoyed and he misses, 644 00:40:05.800 --> 00:40:07.960 and you know, does he go heal? Is that a 645 00:40:07.960 --> 00:40:10.719 big angle or is there some other angle that that 646 00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:14.480 justifies and amplifies the need and anticipation for a summer 647 00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:17.480 slim rematch with the Fiend? Does the Fiend show up 648 00:40:17.480 --> 00:40:19.320 in the swamp? Do we have you know, bray White 649 00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:22.320 in multiple places with multiple personalities? Does Otis show up 650 00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:26.719 with the money in the bank and cash in opportunistically? Uh, 651 00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:28.519 in some form of fashion. I mean, I think there's 652 00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:31.480 a lot of ways this could go, some more creative 653 00:40:31.480 --> 00:40:33.960 than we want, others less creative than we want. What 654 00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:37.360 what do you kind of anticipate in that regard in 655 00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:40.760 terms of where we are then afterwards with that, with that, 656 00:40:40.840 --> 00:40:42.880 with those two characters in particular. 657 00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:50.039 I see, I don't know that I feel like there 658 00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:57.320 is I mean, maybe they're going because I guess they're 659 00:40:57.360 --> 00:41:03.239 going to, you know, Randy. It seems like Randy and 660 00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:07.280 Drew is the place they're going on that side, Because 661 00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:12.320 I was wondering what bronze involvement could be in those terms. 662 00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:16.559 I don't know if I feel like there is a 663 00:41:16.599 --> 00:41:24.880 rematch with him and Bray just because it's it's but again, 664 00:41:25.039 --> 00:41:28.719 it's this Wwe doesn't think the way that anyone else 665 00:41:28.840 --> 00:41:31.400 thinks like it wouldn't. It doesn't make sense why you 666 00:41:31.480 --> 00:41:34.599 go from the swamp match to then, well, the only 667 00:41:34.639 --> 00:41:36.880 way we can settle this is in a regular match 668 00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:41.800 in a ring. It's just it's there's no heightening. It's 669 00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:50.719 like we're going backwards. So, but Bray is also. 670 00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:52.639 God. 671 00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:55.920 Even even when he was the Fiends, they he Vince 672 00:41:56.000 --> 00:42:00.760 just so quickly turned him into just Cannon thought, you know, 673 00:42:01.079 --> 00:42:03.000 of like all right, we was just going to job 674 00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:07.360 to Goldberg and then we're gonna forget about him. And 675 00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:11.000 then I did find the scene of thing at Mania 676 00:42:11.519 --> 00:42:15.159 entertaining and interesting, but at the same time I was, 677 00:42:15.559 --> 00:42:18.320 you know, I wanted to see John Ctene and Bray 678 00:42:18.320 --> 00:42:22.159 Wyatt wrestle. That was the bottom line. So there was 679 00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:27.119 a disappointment there. So it's it's also it's just I 680 00:42:27.199 --> 00:42:30.840 don't know, I don't know what you do with with 681 00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:35.079 the Fiend. It's so I don't know. I didn't even 682 00:42:35.079 --> 00:42:38.760 consider Otis being involved too. But it's like, I do 683 00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:41.840 love the idea of Otis on like one of those 684 00:42:41.880 --> 00:42:44.400 swamp boats with like the giant fan in the back, 685 00:42:44.679 --> 00:42:47.000 you know, just him like cruising around trying to look 686 00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:52.639 for somebody, you know him like maybe even maybe even 687 00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:58.119 like Bray finds an alligator, wrestles it, or bron finds 688 00:42:58.159 --> 00:43:01.519 an alligator, wrestles it, kills it, and then Otis by 689 00:43:01.519 --> 00:43:03.719 the end, he just pulls up and finds the alligators 690 00:43:03.719 --> 00:43:05.920 just like, oh, free meat. And then you just see 691 00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:13.079 him all week on Instagram cooking alligator by the way week. Yeah, 692 00:43:13.199 --> 00:43:17.039 if anybody is not following Otis on Instagram, uh, do 693 00:43:17.159 --> 00:43:21.119 yourself a favor. His his story. It's just him cooking 694 00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:23.719 meat every day. It's the bed. 695 00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:24.880 Oh my god. 696 00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:27.360 He plays with his dogs and he's cooking meat in 697 00:43:27.480 --> 00:43:32.840 his garage. It's the greatest. But yeah, I mean as 698 00:43:32.840 --> 00:43:37.559 far as the mechanics of what happens with you know, 699 00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:42.199 the belt and all of them, and where it goes 700 00:43:42.639 --> 00:43:47.280 program wise, I don't know. It is interesting, I don't 701 00:43:48.440 --> 00:43:51.199 I guess Bray and Brawn is a big match for 702 00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:55.400 Summer Slam. Maybe that is the reason why it's like, well, 703 00:43:55.480 --> 00:43:58.400 he's Bray White and the Swamp. You know, it's not 704 00:43:58.440 --> 00:44:01.079 going to be the Fiend, but it's is. I just 705 00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:04.000 don't like, it's just such a regression. It feels like 706 00:44:04.599 --> 00:44:07.119 and it's always like people associated with the Wyatt family, 707 00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:10.400 who is not Ron Strowman. It's always you know, Luke 708 00:44:10.440 --> 00:44:14.000 Harper and Eric Groener getting the singles push but we're 709 00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:16.000 going to put them back together. You know, it's just 710 00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:21.440 Bray Wyatt. So he's a badass and he's just going 711 00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:26.679 a job to you know, Undertaker and Goldberg, and you know, 712 00:44:26.840 --> 00:44:29.719 we're not building for the future. And then the I 713 00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:33.800 mean the rebuilding and the rebranding of Wyatt as the 714 00:44:33.840 --> 00:44:37.920 Fiend and how interesting and new and fresh that was 715 00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:41.519 and how quickly Vince just turned off the gas is 716 00:44:41.800 --> 00:44:45.760 just I mean, it speaks volumes. It's so it's so 717 00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:50.280 typical of that place. It's incredible. So I don't know, 718 00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:54.519 I'm trying to just go one show at a time. Yeah, 719 00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:57.920 and just I just want to see what what the 720 00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:00.639 hell they're going to pull out of their their their 721 00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:05.639 hat with the Swamp Thing. Who knows, maybe Swamp Thing 722 00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:08.719 will throw up, maybe that'll be that'll be good. Maybe 723 00:45:08.719 --> 00:45:11.960 maybe yeah, Like Bray White gets you know, lit on 724 00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:14.719 fire with chemicals and then he jumps into the swamp 725 00:45:14.800 --> 00:45:16.360 and then that's how he turned into the scene in 726 00:45:16.400 --> 00:45:19.800 the first place. Who knows I'm in tatnything. 727 00:45:25.079 --> 00:45:29.280 In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and 728 00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:32.679 ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP 729 00:45:32.920 --> 00:45:37.000 podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly 730 00:45:37.039 --> 00:45:39.559 look at this page in NXT's early history. 731 00:45:40.440 --> 00:45:43.199 Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from p WT 732 00:45:43.400 --> 00:45:46.320 Talks NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back 733 00:45:46.360 --> 00:45:49.079 to the day to track NXT's rising talents and why 734 00:45:49.119 --> 00:45:52.280 they did or didn't work out. Exclusively for PW Torch 735 00:45:52.360 --> 00:46:07.920 vip members. 736 00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:03.280 Let's turn the paper and talk about eye for an eye? 737 00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:08.320 Are you cringing at the hype? Do you think this 738 00:46:08.519 --> 00:46:10.960 is genius to get people to tune in to see 739 00:46:11.000 --> 00:46:12.800 what the heck they're going to do with the stipulation? 740 00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:16.679 So over the top and outlandish, and either way, if 741 00:46:16.679 --> 00:46:20.639 they're gonna do this and your job is to execute 742 00:46:20.679 --> 00:46:23.000 it well or greade how they're doing it, how do 743 00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:24.760 you grade them in terms of executing the hype? 744 00:46:24.760 --> 00:46:28.719 For this so far, well, I just it's no, there's 745 00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:33.519 I mean, it's on the one hand, it's on one hand, 746 00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:41.360 on paper, it is logical from where they've come from 747 00:46:41.440 --> 00:46:46.599 and the story that they've told, But in practice as 748 00:46:46.639 --> 00:46:50.400 a viewer, as an audience member, as as as as 749 00:46:50.440 --> 00:46:53.719 a forty year old man who grew up on wrestling, 750 00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:58.760 this is the goofiest thing I've ever heard of, because 751 00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:05.639 it's like, what what who? Where is there is there 752 00:47:05.679 --> 00:47:08.719 a wrestling commission that you know? I mean, I'm just 753 00:47:08.760 --> 00:47:11.840 it's one of these things where I'm like I can 754 00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:15.119 even accept you know, ten years ago the ladder match 755 00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:20.719 for the custody of the kids. But now it's we've 756 00:47:20.840 --> 00:47:24.639 gone to the place now where it's the only way 757 00:47:24.679 --> 00:47:30.199 to win is to maim someone, to blind someone, to 758 00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:34.719 like you like, and you can't. And it's just the 759 00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:38.400 functionality of it too, of like like, well, the referee 760 00:47:38.519 --> 00:47:40.719 can only call what he sees. You have to show 761 00:47:40.760 --> 00:47:42.880 the eye to the rest, he has to examine it 762 00:47:42.920 --> 00:47:45.000 and be like is this his I let me double 763 00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:47.599 check make sure that this guy has an empty eye socket, 764 00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:51.239 you know. And then on top of that, just the 765 00:47:51.880 --> 00:47:55.320 special effects that they're going to use is the most 766 00:47:55.440 --> 00:48:00.320 morbid curiosity rubbernecking thing. I cannot wait to see this 767 00:48:00.519 --> 00:48:05.199 and and also never put it past Vince to have 768 00:48:05.320 --> 00:48:09.039 that end in a no contest, you know, like Ray 769 00:48:09.039 --> 00:48:14.159 Wyatt got ah dq'ed from a hell u sl. 770 00:48:15.559 --> 00:48:15.599 No. 771 00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:18.280 The first ever eye for an eye match, and this 772 00:48:18.400 --> 00:48:21.360 match will not end until someone isn't doesn't have an 773 00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:23.360 eye very well, it could end in a count out, 774 00:48:24.119 --> 00:48:28.440 you know. I mean, it's just it's so goofy. But 775 00:48:29.159 --> 00:48:34.599 I'm very I'm curious, but probably for all the wrong reasons, 776 00:48:34.840 --> 00:48:41.599 you know, I'm not I'm not compelled. I'm just intrigued, 777 00:48:43.199 --> 00:48:46.719 if that makes sense. There's no there's nothing, Yeah, there's 778 00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:50.559 nothing in me that is like, Wow, they're really going 779 00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:54.599 for it. It is much more of a how are 780 00:48:54.599 --> 00:48:56.880 they going to pull this ship off? And how goofy 781 00:48:56.920 --> 00:49:01.679 is it going to look? Because there's no I can 782 00:49:01.719 --> 00:49:05.800 suspend my disbelief when people get irish whipped into the corner, 783 00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:08.960 when they bounce off of the ropes, when they just 784 00:49:09.239 --> 00:49:12.079 stand there wait for somebody to jump on top of them, 785 00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:16.360 I can. I can. I can do the math in 786 00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:19.239 my mind of how this fits in this game of 787 00:49:19.320 --> 00:49:21.559 human chests that we call pro wrestling. You know, I 788 00:49:21.599 --> 00:49:26.320 can accept those things, but when it's I don't know, man, 789 00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:30.719 when he's just Brown's is going to reach under the 790 00:49:30.760 --> 00:49:32.559 mask and pull out a mad ball and he's just 791 00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:35.199 gonna be like, look I got his eye. I win, 792 00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:38.280 you know. Then and then what the fake audience is 793 00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:42.880 going to It reminds me of when at Mania fifteen, 794 00:49:44.039 --> 00:49:49.159 what Undertaker like hung a boss Man from his neck 795 00:49:49.199 --> 00:49:50.840 from the hell in a Cell and it's one of 796 00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:54.320 my favorite transitions ever, Like the man's dead. He's literally 797 00:49:54.360 --> 00:49:57.639 hanging from a noose from the cage, and Michael Cole 798 00:49:57.760 --> 00:50:00.960 is like, is this an effigy? Is this a symbol? 799 00:50:01.079 --> 00:50:05.840 Is this is he symbolically hanging the entire corporation? A beat? 800 00:50:05.960 --> 00:50:08.639 A beat, a beat? And then Cole's just like, well, fans, 801 00:50:08.679 --> 00:50:11.000 we've had amazing MENI a week, we had the two 802 00:50:11.119 --> 00:50:13.159 K run, we did the five and it's just like 803 00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:17.440 the man is still hanging dead, yeah, and shows up 804 00:50:17.440 --> 00:50:19.840 on TV like two or three weeks later. I'm just like, 805 00:50:19.920 --> 00:50:22.800 this is this is beyond And then that's the you know, 806 00:50:24.119 --> 00:50:27.800 everybody wants the attitude there back. I'm like, guys, come. 807 00:50:27.679 --> 00:50:35.440 On awkward Nightly news transitions, Yes, very highly. Yes. What 808 00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:39.239 do you think of the Seth Rollins character so different 809 00:50:39.360 --> 00:50:42.280 than you know, what he had been doing previously, even 810 00:50:42.320 --> 00:50:45.480 as heel characters before and especially as babyface characters are 811 00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:47.440 in the Shield? Is this is this working for you? 812 00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:50.360 Because Seth the prior versions assessed or to hit a 813 00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:54.039 ceiling and you know, Vince and the writers got bored 814 00:50:54.039 --> 00:50:56.360 writing for maybe Seth even got bored with it and 815 00:50:56.400 --> 00:50:59.239 it wasn't just taking off, so yeah, let's try something different. 816 00:50:59.320 --> 00:51:02.119 Is he pulling this off well? Or is this just 817 00:51:02.559 --> 00:51:05.320 kind of boring and and and a little too much 818 00:51:05.320 --> 00:51:07.000 of a downer watching him do his thing? 819 00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:13.159 I mean, I am more I'm more inclined to feel 820 00:51:13.199 --> 00:51:17.440 like it's it's a little boring. It's just I don't know. 821 00:51:17.800 --> 00:51:22.400 I mean, it's also a combination of like the run 822 00:51:22.519 --> 00:51:26.920 he had as a Babyface with Bray really took the 823 00:51:26.920 --> 00:51:30.519 wind out of my sales with Seth. And then you know, 824 00:51:30.679 --> 00:51:37.000 he's such a company man online that it's like I'm 825 00:51:37.039 --> 00:51:42.800 just like, get out of here, like stop saying things. 826 00:51:43.159 --> 00:51:46.719 And then then they start this character and I'm just 827 00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:51.960 like all those things combined with this rather boring character 828 00:51:53.199 --> 00:51:59.800 have two and it's just it's it's I don't know. 829 00:51:59.840 --> 00:52:02.880 I also I just ultimately I don't like when Vince 830 00:52:02.960 --> 00:52:09.840 plays with you know stuff or like you know, religious implications, 831 00:52:09.880 --> 00:52:13.599 like you know, when Austin was on the you know, 832 00:52:13.719 --> 00:52:16.360 Undertaker symbol and it looked like he was being crucified 833 00:52:16.519 --> 00:52:20.119 or like now upset the Messiah. It's just like or 834 00:52:20.239 --> 00:52:24.239 Vince himself wrestling God. It's just like what what what 835 00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:27.440 is what is the need? What is what? What is 836 00:52:28.880 --> 00:52:30.960 what is the statement? What is going on here? Just 837 00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:34.480 like it's just it's it's uncomfortable and it's confusing, and 838 00:52:34.519 --> 00:52:38.199 it's just it's one more allins his character is one 839 00:52:38.199 --> 00:52:41.519 more piece and this you know thing that Vince has 840 00:52:41.559 --> 00:52:46.559 with you know I maybe it is just purely Vince's 841 00:52:46.559 --> 00:52:50.800 massive ego. Like he is, he's he's upset that anyone 842 00:52:50.800 --> 00:52:54.000 else does wrestling, but he's also upset with the idea 843 00:52:54.079 --> 00:52:57.039 that there might be a higher power. I mean he 844 00:52:57.119 --> 00:52:59.920 literally he made himself the higher power on Raw one. 845 00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:03.159 He's just like it was me, I'm the higher power, 846 00:53:03.199 --> 00:53:05.599 you know, I'm the one. It's just like the idea 847 00:53:05.639 --> 00:53:07.920 that there might there might be a god out there, 848 00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:13.440 that there's anything that Vince can't control. You know, how 849 00:53:13.480 --> 00:53:16.119 long did he pretend there wasn't a coronavirus? And now 850 00:53:16.119 --> 00:53:20.199 it's just like this, this this theme keeps coming up 851 00:53:20.239 --> 00:53:23.880 where he's got like he's got a major resentment against God. 852 00:53:24.920 --> 00:53:27.480 You know. I'm just like, I don't know. So it 853 00:53:27.960 --> 00:53:29.960 brings up all of that for me as well. But 854 00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:34.840 I don't know, I don't Seth isn't He's just not 855 00:53:34.920 --> 00:53:40.239 the most compelling character on a good day for me. 856 00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:42.679 And then all those things that I mentioned leading into this, 857 00:53:42.760 --> 00:53:45.119 I'm just like, just shut up and wrestle, you know. 858 00:53:45.280 --> 00:53:50.039 I'm like, I just yeah, I don't know. You know, 859 00:53:50.960 --> 00:53:51.800 does that make sense? 860 00:53:58.519 --> 00:54:00.159 You don't have to wait for the Way Killer for 861 00:54:00.239 --> 00:54:02.159 Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of 862 00:54:02.239 --> 00:54:04.480 Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check 863 00:54:04.519 --> 00:54:07.360 out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and 864 00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:11.679 SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell 865 00:54:11.719 --> 00:54:14.079 you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show, 866 00:54:14.400 --> 00:54:17.039 and it will also analyze key segments and give my 867 00:54:17.159 --> 00:54:20.960 random thoughts quips on what I am watching as it airs. 868 00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:23.159 So check it out every Monday Night and Tuesday Night 869 00:54:23.239 --> 00:54:28.320 at pwtorch dot com. That also applies to wwepayperviews. I 870 00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:30.679 cover those live at pw torch dot com with a 871 00:54:30.719 --> 00:54:33.400 detailed written report with star ratings, and of course you 872 00:54:33.440 --> 00:54:36.199 can find other TV reports from other contributors to PW 873 00:54:36.239 --> 00:54:40.159 torch such as nxt roh, Impact Wrestling and more. Check 874 00:54:40.199 --> 00:54:43.519 it out pwtorch dot com your first stop for TV 875 00:54:43.719 --> 00:54:59.760 and pay per view written reports. What's the best use 876 00:54:59.800 --> 00:55:02.320 of Seth rowlins you've seen or the best use of 877 00:55:02.400 --> 00:55:06.519 Seth rollins if you were to have influence on transitioning 878 00:55:06.559 --> 00:55:12.039 him to a long term role and is he a 879 00:55:12.079 --> 00:55:13.840 top is he a top three heel or top three 880 00:55:13.840 --> 00:55:15.840 baby face or do you think he's like in the 881 00:55:15.840 --> 00:55:18.159 next three you know, kind of long term also in 882 00:55:18.239 --> 00:55:21.599 terms of where you end up placing him, he was a. 883 00:55:21.639 --> 00:55:25.079 Top three baby face until they like made him into 884 00:55:25.280 --> 00:55:29.199 such a like blithering coward with the Bray Wyatt run 885 00:55:29.320 --> 00:55:33.400 and he was so damaged from that and then becomes 886 00:55:33.480 --> 00:55:38.480 like this mouthpiece for the Vince McMahon, you know, insanity machine, 887 00:55:38.760 --> 00:55:43.159 like during like like when they laid off all those people, 888 00:55:43.280 --> 00:55:45.880 and then Rollinds is on Instagram just being like, let's 889 00:55:45.880 --> 00:55:48.719 not rush to you know, blame or like you know 890 00:55:49.079 --> 00:55:51.880 a lot of people talking crap about the companies. Just like, dude, 891 00:55:52.639 --> 00:55:57.920 shut up, like shut up already, like plea, just read 892 00:55:57.960 --> 00:56:01.000 the scripts that they give you and shut up, you know. 893 00:56:03.960 --> 00:56:06.719 I mean, there's no better way to put it. It's 894 00:56:06.800 --> 00:56:11.480 just like this. It's like you company man, like like god, 895 00:56:11.840 --> 00:56:17.960 get bent. I'm just like but like when his character 896 00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:22.199 was a company man and he was using the authority 897 00:56:22.960 --> 00:56:26.519 and it was it felt scripted and was just like 898 00:56:26.719 --> 00:56:30.639 not who he actually is. Then I found it much 899 00:56:30.679 --> 00:56:33.800 more enjoyable when he had like the two stooges with him, 900 00:56:33.840 --> 00:56:39.719 when he was you know, the I never I when 901 00:56:39.760 --> 00:56:42.119 I when the shield, when I was getting close to 902 00:56:42.199 --> 00:56:44.519 what you know, it looks like the shield's going to 903 00:56:44.599 --> 00:56:46.800 break up. He was the guy I was worried about. 904 00:56:46.880 --> 00:56:48.199 It felt like he was going to be the odd 905 00:56:48.280 --> 00:56:51.079 man out because it was like Rome's the chosen one 906 00:56:51.719 --> 00:56:58.480 and Mosley is the most compelling. I thought that Rollins 907 00:56:58.559 --> 00:57:00.800 was the best in ring worker, but I was worried 908 00:57:00.840 --> 00:57:04.960 that he was just you know, he's still My concern 909 00:57:05.079 --> 00:57:07.119 was that he still had the ring of honor Indie 910 00:57:07.159 --> 00:57:10.119 guys stink on him, and that it was like, he 911 00:57:10.199 --> 00:57:12.360 wants to work his own way. He's not going to listen, 912 00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:15.719 He's gonna wind up, like you know, tossed the side 913 00:57:15.760 --> 00:57:18.039 like they did with Chris Harrow and a million other guys, 914 00:57:18.760 --> 00:57:22.760 and instead they actually went with him. You know, Dean 915 00:57:22.880 --> 00:57:26.519 becomes the odd man out essentially, even but he was 916 00:57:26.559 --> 00:57:29.599 still so compelling, he was able to transcend so much 917 00:57:29.679 --> 00:57:33.639 of the craft that been shoveled on him. But clearly 918 00:57:33.719 --> 00:57:36.119 their mistake, they booked him right out of the territory, 919 00:57:36.559 --> 00:57:43.760 you know. But it was just so I think, I 920 00:57:43.760 --> 00:57:46.760 don't know, I don't know what Rollins could do to 921 00:57:46.840 --> 00:57:50.119 recoup himself, like in my mind as a viewer, because 922 00:57:50.519 --> 00:57:53.880 like I've said, there is a lot of preconceived baggage 923 00:57:53.920 --> 00:57:56.880 that comes to mind when I see him walk out, 924 00:57:56.960 --> 00:58:02.960 and there is a there is a certain distaste for it, 925 00:58:03.079 --> 00:58:06.960 and and ultimately I'm like, you know, I'd rather see 926 00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:11.599 somebody else in those top positions now, you know, as 927 00:58:11.719 --> 00:58:15.400 great as his matches are, I'm just like every there's 928 00:58:15.480 --> 00:58:18.440 just a lot of baggage, you know. I mean, yeah, 929 00:58:18.440 --> 00:58:21.079 that's the bottom line for me. Yeah, No, I don't 930 00:58:21.119 --> 00:58:23.760 know what, Yeah, I don't know how to rehab that 931 00:58:23.920 --> 00:58:26.719 because it's it's I'm the one bringing it to the table. 932 00:58:27.119 --> 00:58:29.760 You know, you turned someone too often and you you 933 00:58:29.880 --> 00:58:32.519 change their character and you know the core of what 934 00:58:32.599 --> 00:58:35.119 drives him without I mean, at least in that this 935 00:58:35.239 --> 00:58:40.360 character came sprung from fans rejecting him, and we can, 936 00:58:40.400 --> 00:58:42.719 you know, critique why or you know, evaluate why that happened. 937 00:58:42.719 --> 00:58:45.039 But there's a there's a it didn't. He didn't just 938 00:58:45.039 --> 00:58:46.559 show up one day going now I'm a new character. 939 00:58:46.639 --> 00:58:49.199 He was like, oh, you're gonna boom me. You know 940 00:58:49.599 --> 00:58:52.239 you don't understand. I mean, there's you could write an 941 00:58:52.360 --> 00:58:55.280 essay explaining for school why Seth Rawlins is who he 942 00:58:55.320 --> 00:58:56.840 is now compared to who he was a year ago. 943 00:58:58.639 --> 00:59:00.639 So at least they have that going for them. I'm 944 00:59:00.639 --> 00:59:03.639 not sure if Lacy Evans is heading back heel if 945 00:59:04.079 --> 00:59:07.239 being cheated out of a karaoke contest when is has 946 00:59:07.559 --> 00:59:11.079 the depth that we need compared to maybe the Seth transition. 947 00:59:13.119 --> 00:59:17.519 So weird. I like, small things can work. I mean 948 00:59:17.880 --> 00:59:20.480 one of my one of my favorite and it was 949 00:59:20.519 --> 00:59:22.960 a small, small thing. But it's like you need somebody 950 00:59:23.039 --> 00:59:25.280 like Christian to pull it off. But like I remember 951 00:59:26.239 --> 00:59:30.400 God years ago, God, it's like ten years ago now, 952 00:59:30.639 --> 00:59:35.239 Like he gave Seamus a potato is like a peace offering, 953 00:59:35.840 --> 00:59:37.679 and I just remember being like that, this is like 954 00:59:37.719 --> 00:59:42.800 the funniest, most ridiculous thing. Like I was like that worked. 955 00:59:42.920 --> 00:59:46.719 There is there is that pro wrestling element of but 956 00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:51.119 you do you need because Seamus was not He's He's 957 00:59:51.119 --> 00:59:53.800 got a lot of personality, but especially then, you know, 958 00:59:53.920 --> 00:59:55.679 I mean this is ten years ago. He was you know, 959 00:59:55.800 --> 00:59:58.880 brand new and probably worried that he was going to 960 00:59:58.960 --> 01:00:01.920 make a mistakes. You know, anybody who gets brought into 961 01:00:01.960 --> 01:00:08.000 that place does. But the uh, the thing that worked 962 01:00:08.480 --> 01:00:12.679 there was something too like that. Who was it? Who 963 01:00:12.760 --> 01:00:14.920 was it that was in the They were like in 964 01:00:15.079 --> 01:00:19.599 competition for like a like a Japanese shampoo commercial or something. 965 01:00:19.960 --> 01:00:23.559 Was it like Booker T and Edge or somebody? Or 966 01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:28.000 do you remember this? This was like twenty years ago now, No, 967 01:00:29.239 --> 01:00:31.920 do you remember this? Like I remember Jijii was like 968 01:00:32.960 --> 01:00:38.840 directing the commercial or running the auditions or something. Somebody 969 01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:44.800 was I'm sure people listening or screaming it. Yeah, But 970 01:00:45.679 --> 01:00:48.280 so look forward to a weekend full of tweets of 971 01:00:48.280 --> 01:00:51.159 people being like it was Booker T and Edge? How 972 01:00:51.159 --> 01:00:57.280 do you not remember this, but like small things can. It's, 973 01:00:58.760 --> 01:01:02.599 in my opinion and my experience, wrestling works well when 974 01:01:02.639 --> 01:01:10.360 the stakes aren't so high. You know, the someone's eyesight 975 01:01:10.599 --> 01:01:14.320 is maybe too high of a stipulation, the custody of 976 01:01:14.360 --> 01:01:19.480 a child is too high of stakes. But it's there 977 01:01:19.559 --> 01:01:23.400 was something that almost worked about it, as goofy and 978 01:01:23.480 --> 01:01:30.880 nonsensical as it was. But I don't know. I don't 979 01:01:30.880 --> 01:01:34.320 know if the karaoke thing is is I guess we'll 980 01:01:34.360 --> 01:01:38.039 have to see where it goes. But there is there 981 01:01:38.079 --> 01:01:42.079 is precedent for it working. But again, it always depends 982 01:01:42.079 --> 01:01:46.920 on the performers. And Lacy's not, you know, the greatest, 983 01:01:48.039 --> 01:01:53.079 let's say, but I don't know, man, I never say never. 984 01:01:53.199 --> 01:01:55.360 That's the number one rule. That's the number one rule 985 01:01:55.440 --> 01:01:56.079 Pro wrestling. 986 01:02:00.119 --> 01:02:03.119 For more great pro wrestling talk, then join me Jason 987 01:02:03.159 --> 01:02:06.360 Powell host him the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast. 988 01:02:06.760 --> 01:02:09.039 Each week, he'll hear the latest news and analysis from 989 01:02:09.079 --> 01:02:11.159 me and my team at pro Wrestling dot Net, along 990 01:02:11.159 --> 01:02:14.159 with other pro wrestling media members. Plus the Pro Wrestling 991 01:02:14.159 --> 01:02:17.480 Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in 992 01:02:17.519 --> 01:02:21.199 the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and iTunes, Stitcher, downcast and 993 01:02:21.280 --> 01:02:24.400 all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at 994 01:02:24.440 --> 01:02:35.599 PW boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom dot com. 995 01:02:35.679 --> 01:02:39.679 All right, let's uh, let's jump to a few places 996 01:02:39.719 --> 01:02:41.000 we go. Well, we'll stick with one of the main 997 01:02:41.599 --> 01:02:47.320 Drew McIntyre defending the WWE title against Delf Zigler. I 998 01:02:47.320 --> 01:02:49.119 think Dahl's been doing some of his better work. He's 999 01:02:49.159 --> 01:02:51.960 not yelling at us needlessly to try to emphasize his points. 1000 01:02:52.280 --> 01:02:55.400 He's got a backstory with Drew. He's someone you want 1001 01:02:55.440 --> 01:02:59.000 to see get beat up to me for a July 1002 01:02:59.360 --> 01:03:03.119 you know, Midsummer pay per view. There's a backstory. Dolt's 1003 01:03:03.159 --> 01:03:07.199 being annoying. It gives drough a hopefully solid, clean, decisive 1004 01:03:07.239 --> 01:03:09.280 win over someone who can take great bumps and make 1005 01:03:09.320 --> 01:03:11.440 him look like a million bucks. I'm okay, I'm okay 1006 01:03:11.440 --> 01:03:12.480 with this so far. How about you? 1007 01:03:14.840 --> 01:03:18.679 Yeah? Well, at first, I was like, when Dolph came 1008 01:03:18.719 --> 01:03:23.760 out as the challenger, it was like, come on, just 1009 01:03:23.800 --> 01:03:29.679 because he's he's the perfect example of somebody that to 1010 01:03:29.800 --> 01:03:35.440 come the gas on and off of so many times, 1011 01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:38.519 and it was like ten years ago, it was like, yeah, 1012 01:03:38.760 --> 01:03:42.000 at ten years ago, it was like, all right, it'll 1013 01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:44.079 be fine because he's going to be the top guy. 1014 01:03:44.159 --> 01:03:47.119 Someday he's going to be the top heel or babyface 1015 01:03:47.280 --> 01:03:51.039 or whatever. And then it just kept not happening, and 1016 01:03:51.079 --> 01:03:54.639 they just kept He was always the example too that 1017 01:03:54.760 --> 01:03:56.840 I would hear Vince like be like, oh, you can 1018 01:03:56.880 --> 01:04:00.480 recoup anyone, you can rehab anybody, you can rebuild anyone. 1019 01:04:01.880 --> 01:04:05.079 And it's like, yeah, but it's the boy who cried Wolf, 1020 01:04:05.199 --> 01:04:09.760 Like You're like, nobody, nobody thinks that Dolf has a 1021 01:04:09.880 --> 01:04:13.239 chance of winning that title. The only thing that's compelling 1022 01:04:13.280 --> 01:04:16.440 to me is it's gonna be a great match. It 1023 01:04:16.519 --> 01:04:22.519 won't have that could he win heat to it? But 1024 01:04:22.639 --> 01:04:27.239 I mean again, anything can happen. But I don't see 1025 01:04:27.559 --> 01:04:29.519 put it this way, I don't see Drew losing the 1026 01:04:29.559 --> 01:04:34.159 belts until you know there's a COVID vaccine, Like, I 1027 01:04:34.559 --> 01:04:38.639 just don't see them. And then by them, I mean 1028 01:04:38.760 --> 01:04:41.199 Vince moving on to somebody else is like, you know, 1029 01:04:41.280 --> 01:04:46.079 the face of things, it's just I just don't. And 1030 01:04:46.239 --> 01:04:52.440 his coronation was I mean, poor Drew. It's just you know, 1031 01:04:52.519 --> 01:04:55.079 he's doing great stuff and and Dolf is doing great 1032 01:04:55.079 --> 01:04:59.639 stuff too, and I and I love the Heath Slater promo. 1033 01:05:00.760 --> 01:05:05.960 But the you know, thet look bell, the bell, that's 1034 01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:08.920 gonna be a great match. I would think I'm expecting 1035 01:05:08.960 --> 01:05:13.320 it to be. I hope that I'm not disappointed, because 1036 01:05:13.679 --> 01:05:18.719 typically expectations can do that sometimes with w W A. 1037 01:05:18.920 --> 01:05:24.519 But yeah, I mean, it's it's it's it's it's a 1038 01:05:24.559 --> 01:05:27.920 transition pay per view, and who knows, maybe Randy will 1039 01:05:27.920 --> 01:05:30.559 get involved and then it'll be a bunch of you 1040 01:05:30.639 --> 01:05:34.960 know bs leading into that, because it seems it seems 1041 01:05:34.960 --> 01:05:40.639 pretty well agreed upon that that must be the direction 1042 01:05:40.679 --> 01:05:45.400 they're going for SummerSlam. But who knows. We'll see how. 1043 01:05:45.320 --> 01:05:52.679 Good has Randy been lately, by the way, I mean 1044 01:05:53.559 --> 01:05:54.159 really good. 1045 01:05:54.199 --> 01:05:56.800 I mean the the I mean him and Edge had 1046 01:05:56.840 --> 01:06:01.480 such a great match. I feel like they could have 1047 01:06:01.679 --> 01:06:03.719 just I mean, but you know, poor Edge, she came 1048 01:06:03.800 --> 01:06:06.199 back just for this, you know, to get all you know, 1049 01:06:06.400 --> 01:06:10.719 dinged up again. But you know that the thing with 1050 01:06:10.800 --> 01:06:16.400 Randy is he's just he's so good, but he doesn't 1051 01:06:16.440 --> 01:06:22.719 have to work for his spots, and so he can 1052 01:06:22.760 --> 01:06:29.320 go into cruise control sometimes and it doesn't feel like 1053 01:06:29.480 --> 01:06:31.599 it doesn't feel like a Randy Savage where he would 1054 01:06:32.119 --> 01:06:35.400 save things for the big shows, and sometimes he'd be like, 1055 01:06:35.760 --> 01:06:39.880 Randy's got a better match them than that Randy Savage. 1056 01:06:39.880 --> 01:06:42.400 I mean, where you watch Randy Orton and you know 1057 01:06:42.440 --> 01:06:44.599 that he's got a better match in it in him 1058 01:06:44.639 --> 01:06:47.719 than that. But it's it's it makes me wonder is 1059 01:06:47.760 --> 01:06:51.000 it that he's saving it or is he just kind 1060 01:06:51.039 --> 01:06:54.360 of checked out? And there are times when, I mean 1061 01:06:54.360 --> 01:06:56.119 most of the time with Randy, it feels like he's 1062 01:06:56.159 --> 01:06:59.119 a little checked out. But I don't know, maybe just 1063 01:06:59.159 --> 01:07:06.400 the fact that he's another one that's I recommend following 1064 01:07:06.480 --> 01:07:11.039 him on Instagram. He's just and his wife they are 1065 01:07:11.119 --> 01:07:15.519 they really cracked me up. He's Randy is always having 1066 01:07:15.559 --> 01:07:17.760 a good time or he's always like he's always going 1067 01:07:17.840 --> 01:07:20.920 to point out he's like, well, my my private jet whatever. 1068 01:07:25.719 --> 01:07:28.480 He's just like, it's just he's perfect for that. But 1069 01:07:29.119 --> 01:07:32.079 you know, as of late, he has been very compelling. 1070 01:07:32.239 --> 01:07:35.199 You know, I tend to agree with you. So let's 1071 01:07:35.199 --> 01:07:38.079 see hopefully like a big well, I guess what I 1072 01:07:38.119 --> 01:07:40.079 was trying to get up before, is I wonder if 1073 01:07:40.159 --> 01:07:44.800 he is enjoying there not being fans there. You know, 1074 01:07:45.119 --> 01:07:48.199 he seems like the kind of guy who just you know, 1075 01:07:48.480 --> 01:07:51.320 you always see him kind of like turn his shoulder 1076 01:07:51.480 --> 01:07:54.440 to the audience of just like just get it, get 1077 01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:57.079 out of here, just let me do my thing. So 1078 01:07:58.559 --> 01:08:00.639 and then the fact that you know he can kind 1079 01:08:00.639 --> 01:08:06.280 of you know, the that that it is the developmental 1080 01:08:06.280 --> 01:08:08.840 talent is the you know, buy and large the audience. 1081 01:08:08.880 --> 01:08:14.000 Now there is a I don't know, I think that 1082 01:08:14.159 --> 01:08:17.239 I think he gets off on bull bullying. Might be 1083 01:08:17.279 --> 01:08:19.319 too strong award, but then you know, you look at 1084 01:08:19.359 --> 01:08:21.600 that exchange he had with what's his name, you know, 1085 01:08:21.640 --> 01:08:26.039 grabbing him screaming at him that thing. But I don't know, 1086 01:08:26.119 --> 01:08:29.000 I think he gets off on that like yeah, like 1087 01:08:29.199 --> 01:08:32.039 you people have to cheer for me type of thing. 1088 01:08:34.039 --> 01:08:36.199 But like like like like we were talking about with Rollin's, 1089 01:08:36.199 --> 01:08:38.399 I think Randy is somebody who can very quickly turn 1090 01:08:38.479 --> 01:08:40.680 on the audience and be like screw you, like with 1091 01:08:40.760 --> 01:08:43.680 the light, you know, like that thing that happened at 1092 01:08:43.720 --> 01:08:46.920 Mania last year, or it was like people were being blinded, 1093 01:08:46.960 --> 01:08:51.680 and then like he was just furious that It's like 1094 01:08:51.720 --> 01:08:54.479 how dare you stop paying attention to my match type 1095 01:08:54.479 --> 01:08:58.039 of thing. Whatever. I think he's also I don't know 1096 01:08:58.079 --> 01:09:03.239 that he's a perfectionist, but he might be because there is. 1097 01:09:03.359 --> 01:09:06.239 There is that tendency of like people who I either 1098 01:09:06.239 --> 01:09:08.000 want it perfect or I don't want to do anything 1099 01:09:08.000 --> 01:09:08.279 at all. 1100 01:09:09.279 --> 01:09:11.520 His Instagram living room is pretty perfect. 1101 01:09:12.760 --> 01:09:15.439 I mean that's that's the bottom line. I think there is. 1102 01:09:16.359 --> 01:09:21.640 I think there is a lot of that, you know, Yeah, 1103 01:09:19.119 --> 01:09:22.439 but I'm digging it. 1104 01:09:23.399 --> 01:09:27.399 So let's see. We have not talked about Apollo Cruise 1105 01:09:27.439 --> 01:09:30.319 and MVP for the US title. MVP has been a 1106 01:09:30.319 --> 01:09:33.119 pleasant surprise for me, how about you, dude. 1107 01:09:33.159 --> 01:09:35.159 We were just talking about this time we watched wrestling. 1108 01:09:35.239 --> 01:09:37.920 Vince was like, can you believe a year ago, a 1109 01:09:38.039 --> 01:09:40.600 year and a half ago, we were sitting at our 1110 01:09:40.640 --> 01:09:43.439 table at Wrestle kan and MVP was the table next 1111 01:09:43.439 --> 01:09:47.680 to us that in a year he would be having 1112 01:09:47.720 --> 01:09:53.039 like this second run, this like huge revival on WWE. 1113 01:09:53.039 --> 01:09:58.159 And I love it. And he's great, he was always great, 1114 01:09:58.479 --> 01:10:00.560 And I just dig it, man, I I love that 1115 01:10:00.640 --> 01:10:05.279 he's you know, getting this this you know, this kind 1116 01:10:05.319 --> 01:10:10.920 of rebirth, you know's and he's been really good, you know. 1117 01:10:11.680 --> 01:10:14.600 I just I'm very very happy for him in particular. Yeah, 1118 01:10:14.640 --> 01:10:15.079 for sure. 1119 01:10:17.640 --> 01:10:20.960 Anytime you're watching ww E Raw or SmackDown or aw 1120 01:10:21.199 --> 01:10:23.760 Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've got 1121 01:10:23.800 --> 01:10:25.600 thoughts on the show or a topic you want us 1122 01:10:25.640 --> 01:10:29.399 to address or a question for us. Wadekeller Podcast at 1123 01:10:29.600 --> 01:10:34.359 pw torch dot com. Wadkeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com. 1124 01:10:34.439 --> 01:10:36.239 If there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that 1125 01:10:36.239 --> 01:10:38.640 you want us to address on our main podcast during 1126 01:10:38.640 --> 01:10:42.319 our mailbank segments, that same email applies Wade Keller podcast 1127 01:10:42.439 --> 01:10:45.840 at pw torch dot com. We invite that interaction. Let 1128 01:10:45.920 --> 01:10:47.680 us know what you think of what we're saying, and 1129 01:10:48.079 --> 01:10:49.840 let us know what you want us to talk about 1130 01:10:50.039 --> 01:10:53.720 and ask us specific questions. Wadkeller Podcast at pw torch 1131 01:10:53.760 --> 01:11:01.920 dot com. The MVP is that just sort of they're 1132 01:11:01.960 --> 01:11:04.479 setting them up for Paula Cruz to beat him, and 1133 01:11:04.520 --> 01:11:06.079 it's pretty straightforward and they move on. 1134 01:11:06.960 --> 01:11:07.239 Yeah. 1135 01:11:07.359 --> 01:11:09.760 Or do you think, though, what's the story arc with 1136 01:11:09.800 --> 01:11:12.039 Apollo Cruise and how do you feel about them bringing 1137 01:11:12.119 --> 01:11:13.960 him back to you talk about you know, maybe Randy 1138 01:11:14.000 --> 01:11:15.760 not liking having a crowd. I bet a Polo Cruse 1139 01:11:15.800 --> 01:11:17.399 is a number one guy in line for that, because 1140 01:11:17.399 --> 01:11:19.359 the audiences were not giving him a chance and it 1141 01:11:19.439 --> 01:11:22.479 kept derailing what was otherwise I think good baby Face 1142 01:11:22.520 --> 01:11:24.960 work on his part, not great, but good, and now 1143 01:11:24.960 --> 01:11:27.600 he's having a chance to kind of without the crowd 1144 01:11:27.680 --> 01:11:29.800 not reacting and vinsco and pull the plug, pull the 1145 01:11:29.800 --> 01:11:33.720 plug on this, you know, the bagwell Booker moment. He's 1146 01:11:33.760 --> 01:11:37.279 getting it, actually get some TV time and maybe earn 1147 01:11:38.199 --> 01:11:41.600 through just persistence their respect to the fans that maybe 1148 01:11:41.720 --> 01:11:44.119 deserves us the spot that he has right now. 1149 01:11:45.479 --> 01:11:47.399 No, I haven't even thought about that, but I think 1150 01:11:47.439 --> 01:11:50.079 you just nailed it, because it's like, yeah, he was 1151 01:11:50.119 --> 01:11:53.359 the again the start and stop, and he's somebody that 1152 01:11:53.399 --> 01:11:57.159 I used to see at PWG all the time and 1153 01:11:57.279 --> 01:12:01.960 always really liked that. He just seems when we seen 1154 01:12:02.000 --> 01:12:05.960 him at indie shows, he seems so comfortable and effortless 1155 01:12:05.960 --> 01:12:09.560 in the ring. And it's just that thing at WWE 1156 01:12:09.680 --> 01:12:13.319 when they get inside somebody's head and it's just like, 1157 01:12:14.199 --> 01:12:19.199 you know, I just hate it when it becomes obvious 1158 01:12:19.840 --> 01:12:24.359 that they are in their heads that they've gotten I mean, 1159 01:12:24.399 --> 01:12:27.920 it's kind of that thing that's like it reminds me 1160 01:12:27.960 --> 01:12:31.399 of every time Rick Flair tells the stories about being 1161 01:12:31.479 --> 01:12:34.159 in WCW in the nineties when he went back and 1162 01:12:34.199 --> 01:12:37.279 it was just like they just slowly chipped away at 1163 01:12:37.279 --> 01:12:39.359 his confidence, and all of a sudden he's just like, 1164 01:12:39.439 --> 01:12:43.239 I don't know how to Like, of all people, Rick 1165 01:12:43.279 --> 01:12:45.439 Flair Is just gets to the point where he's like, 1166 01:12:45.439 --> 01:12:47.119 I don't know how to wrestle. I don't know how 1167 01:12:47.159 --> 01:12:50.520 to do this anymore. It's like that is that these 1168 01:12:50.560 --> 01:12:53.359 are artists. They're athletes, but they're also these are very 1169 01:12:53.399 --> 01:12:59.279 sensitive artists who are doing their thing. And I mean 1170 01:12:59.279 --> 01:13:01.479 when I work there, I was blown away at how 1171 01:13:01.520 --> 01:13:04.399 insecure the wrestlers are. And but it made total sense 1172 01:13:04.439 --> 01:13:06.039 once I once I saw it. I was like I 1173 01:13:06.119 --> 01:13:08.840 remember saying to like friends at Stanancho's, I'm like, they're like, 1174 01:13:08.840 --> 01:13:11.079 how are the wrestlers. I'm like, they're more insecure than 1175 01:13:11.079 --> 01:13:14.079 comedians and they couldn't believe it. And I was like, look, 1176 01:13:14.159 --> 01:13:17.680 you don't put on three hundred pounds of muscle because 1177 01:13:17.720 --> 01:13:20.359 you're comfortable with who you are. You know, so on 1178 01:13:20.399 --> 01:13:23.600 top of being a performer, they're also athletes. It's just 1179 01:13:23.680 --> 01:13:28.760 this perfect marriage of of and it's and it's and 1180 01:13:28.800 --> 01:13:31.680 it's it's much like stand up there is that the 1181 01:13:31.760 --> 01:13:34.760 crowd reaction is instant approval. You know, you're living and 1182 01:13:34.880 --> 01:13:41.239 dying on the approval of the audience of the gratification 1183 01:13:42.039 --> 01:13:47.199 of you know, the just it's it's it's a complete 1184 01:13:48.279 --> 01:13:50.640 art form centered on acceptance. You know. It's the same 1185 01:13:50.680 --> 01:13:53.079 thing with with with live comedy, where you're just like, 1186 01:13:53.920 --> 01:13:55.800 you know, give me that laugh, Okay, now give me 1187 01:13:55.840 --> 01:13:58.000 another one. You know. Oh they're not laughing as much. 1188 01:13:58.039 --> 01:14:03.760 Oh God, they hate me. And so I think I 1189 01:14:03.760 --> 01:14:08.119 think he nailed it. I feel like Apollo. God, I hope, 1190 01:14:08.199 --> 01:14:10.720 because it's once you get the old man behind you, 1191 01:14:11.399 --> 01:14:13.680 if if you're not a new toy, and he doesn't 1192 01:14:13.720 --> 01:14:17.479 get bored, you know, like a Damien Sandou he was. 1193 01:14:17.600 --> 01:14:21.680 He's one of the worst tragedies of w W because 1194 01:14:22.479 --> 01:14:26.359 he came in, you know, not to sound like Miley Cyrus, 1195 01:14:26.399 --> 01:14:30.159 but he came in like a wrecking ball and he 1196 01:14:30.159 --> 01:14:35.159 he was he was able to He was the voice 1197 01:14:35.199 --> 01:14:38.640 of Vince. You know, Vince didn't write those promos, but 1198 01:14:39.760 --> 01:14:42.760 that was like Vince loves this because this is how 1199 01:14:42.840 --> 01:14:46.880 Vince views the common man, you know. And then eventually 1200 01:14:46.880 --> 01:14:49.960 he got bored. And then Damien was never the same, 1201 01:14:50.520 --> 01:14:53.399 you know. He he jobbed out to d X on 1202 01:14:53.600 --> 01:14:58.840 RAW one thousand and then never recovered and again with 1203 01:14:58.960 --> 01:15:02.560 somebody that I don't even know. I don't I wouldn't 1204 01:15:02.560 --> 01:15:06.640 even I wouldn't even say that he visibly lost his 1205 01:15:06.720 --> 01:15:10.239 confidence on TV because he didn't everything they gave him 1206 01:15:10.279 --> 01:15:13.680 to do, he excelled at like even like when he 1207 01:15:13.800 --> 01:15:15.760 was Missus Stunt Double. That was one of those things 1208 01:15:15.800 --> 01:15:20.279 where I was just like talk about taking you know, 1209 01:15:21.680 --> 01:15:24.359 chicken shit and turn it into chicken salad, that type 1210 01:15:24.399 --> 01:15:27.039 of thing where it's just like in anyone else's hands. 1211 01:15:27.079 --> 01:15:30.159 It's like it's like the undertaking gimmick. It's like no 1212 01:15:30.199 --> 01:15:32.319 one else could have made that work. And I don't 1213 01:15:32.319 --> 01:15:35.079 think anyone else could have made the Stunt Double work. 1214 01:15:35.199 --> 01:15:38.520 It was just like, you know, and and again it 1215 01:15:38.560 --> 01:15:40.359 was just like that's another one of the tragedy I 1216 01:15:40.399 --> 01:15:43.720 mean whatever. I mean, it's it's a shame that NWA 1217 01:15:43.840 --> 01:15:49.720 Power is is, you know, on permanent hiatus because there 1218 01:15:49.760 --> 01:15:54.119 were so many guys you know, Aaron included, but like 1219 01:15:55.039 --> 01:15:57.520 you know, the Eddie Kingston's or everybody on that roster. 1220 01:15:57.600 --> 01:15:59.680 I was just like so happy that they were getting 1221 01:16:00.359 --> 01:16:06.680 a platform and getting exposure because it's just like like 1222 01:16:06.720 --> 01:16:09.159 when I heard that Aaron was basically he's like, oh, 1223 01:16:09.199 --> 01:16:11.199 I'm done with wrestling I'm just going to go into acting. 1224 01:16:11.279 --> 01:16:13.359 It broke my heart because I'm like, he could have 1225 01:16:13.439 --> 01:16:17.359 been the top, Like he just needs somewhere to perform. 1226 01:16:17.600 --> 01:16:20.000 Just let him be a top guy. I don't know 1227 01:16:20.039 --> 01:16:24.000 if Apollo's Apollo is someone like like I was talking 1228 01:16:24.000 --> 01:16:26.520 about before when they did the NX, you know, kind 1229 01:16:26.520 --> 01:16:29.680 of Vignanza profiles like who is this guy his sit 1230 01:16:29.760 --> 01:16:32.760 down interview talking about his story and his family life 1231 01:16:32.800 --> 01:16:36.199 growing up, and I'm like, this guy is compelling, you know, 1232 01:16:36.439 --> 01:16:38.239 and he's got the look and he's got the moves. 1233 01:16:38.279 --> 01:16:40.520 It's just like, how is he not Vince's guy? 1234 01:16:41.640 --> 01:16:41.840 You know? 1235 01:16:41.920 --> 01:16:45.399 So hopefully hopefully that changes. Hopefully that gets to that point, 1236 01:16:45.560 --> 01:16:48.279 because I feel like he could go it off if 1237 01:16:48.760 --> 01:16:51.800 they don't, you know, start playing pack men inside his 1238 01:16:51.840 --> 01:16:57.039 head and just god, that place man, they just get 1239 01:16:57.199 --> 01:17:00.359 He's not having a miss for years. It was like 1240 01:17:00.479 --> 01:17:05.399 Miss was like a top heel, and then he beats 1241 01:17:05.479 --> 01:17:08.359 scene at Mania. Then he was like he was number 1242 01:17:08.359 --> 01:17:11.840 one on the PWY five hundred, and all of a sudden, 1243 01:17:11.880 --> 01:17:14.359 it's like then he couldn't get anything right. It was 1244 01:17:14.439 --> 01:17:17.000 just like that place we'll get inside your head and 1245 01:17:17.039 --> 01:17:20.439 turn your brain into Swiss cheese and then blame you 1246 01:17:20.479 --> 01:17:22.560 for not having the confidence that you used to it. 1247 01:17:23.000 --> 01:17:25.479 It's mind boglin, mind boglin. 1248 01:17:26.159 --> 01:17:28.520 What's the upside with Bobby Lashley? And is it with 1249 01:17:28.720 --> 01:17:32.199 MVP long term? 1250 01:17:32.319 --> 01:17:34.720 I feel like it's got a I don't I don't know. 1251 01:17:34.760 --> 01:17:39.000 Bobby's not somebody that I don't know, man, Because it 1252 01:17:39.039 --> 01:17:44.079 was like I was never a regular viewer of Impact. Yeah, 1253 01:17:45.000 --> 01:17:47.199 but when I would see the clips of Lastly, I 1254 01:17:47.239 --> 01:17:48.880 was like, I couldn't believe it was the same guy. 1255 01:17:49.560 --> 01:17:54.239 It did feel like it didn't feel like WWE had 1256 01:17:54.279 --> 01:17:56.560 gotten in his head. It just felt like he got 1257 01:17:56.600 --> 01:18:02.239 to go away and find himself and TNA was a 1258 01:18:02.640 --> 01:18:06.039 was a good place for that. But it was like 1259 01:18:06.039 --> 01:18:08.279 like with Christian, I couldn't believe it when like at 1260 01:18:08.319 --> 01:18:10.920 first I was like, oh God, the top heels Christian, 1261 01:18:10.960 --> 01:18:12.439 And then I would see his work and I was like, 1262 01:18:12.479 --> 01:18:14.680 oh my god, he is a top guy. You know, 1263 01:18:15.279 --> 01:18:17.119 why did I not see it before? And then he 1264 01:18:17.239 --> 01:18:22.239 came back to WWE and just couldn't quite break that 1265 01:18:23.000 --> 01:18:26.000 ceiling and him and Randy had like Orton had like 1266 01:18:26.079 --> 01:18:30.880 the best match of whatever year that was. It was 1267 01:18:30.920 --> 01:18:34.079 twenty ten or twenty eleven I can't remember, but and 1268 01:18:34.119 --> 01:18:36.119 then the one More Match gimmick. It was just like 1269 01:18:37.039 --> 01:18:42.319 Christian was just you know, so when Lastly came back 1270 01:18:42.359 --> 01:18:45.680 and this is an awkward time, and you know, they 1271 01:18:45.760 --> 01:18:49.520 immediately saddled him with you know, the that Lana Russev 1272 01:18:49.960 --> 01:18:52.600 gimmick and it's just like this is weird. Why are 1273 01:18:52.600 --> 01:18:56.920 you doing it this way? I don't know it's it, 1274 01:18:57.199 --> 01:19:01.640 but it reminded me of that guy leaves, becomes something amazing, 1275 01:19:01.800 --> 01:19:04.840 comes back and then they're like, eh, you're just gonna 1276 01:19:04.840 --> 01:19:08.520 be you know. It's like with John Morrison's gedible to me. 1277 01:19:09.239 --> 01:19:12.760 He leaves for years, just like builds this rep and 1278 01:19:12.760 --> 01:19:15.399 he's just you know, he's Johnny everywhere Johnny. And then 1279 01:19:15.479 --> 01:19:19.520 he comes back and just like mmm, I see you 1280 01:19:19.560 --> 01:19:22.399 tagging with mis It's like, oh my god, Vince, this 1281 01:19:22.399 --> 01:19:27.199 this this you know, fixation on, like, let's do what 1282 01:19:27.239 --> 01:19:29.359 we did before. I don't know, I don't care as 1283 01:19:29.359 --> 01:19:31.199 long as you're not working for somebody else, I don't 1284 01:19:31.319 --> 01:19:33.039 care what he does. You know. 1285 01:19:33.439 --> 01:19:41.680 Yeah, I'm Chris Maitland and I'm Justin McClelland we host 1286 01:19:41.680 --> 01:19:44.279 Wrestling Coast to Coast where we scour the wrestling scene 1287 01:19:44.319 --> 01:19:46.840 to find the best wrestling from the smallest places. There 1288 01:19:46.840 --> 01:19:49.840 are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling coast 1289 01:19:49.840 --> 01:19:52.000 to coast is here to discover the men and women 1290 01:19:52.039 --> 01:19:53.600 who could be big time stars in. 1291 01:19:53.560 --> 01:19:54.199 A few years. 1292 01:19:54.520 --> 01:19:56.520 There are plenty of podcasts to voters to w W 1293 01:19:56.720 --> 01:19:59.720 and AW, but what's happening in the armories and gymnasiums 1294 01:19:59.760 --> 01:20:01.840 low We're wrestling hotspots around the country. 1295 01:20:02.159 --> 01:20:04.039 We can't wait to help you find the true hidden 1296 01:20:04.079 --> 01:20:06.359 gems of the wrestling world. Plus, you can hear Chris 1297 01:20:06.359 --> 01:20:08.520 complain about bad referees. 1298 01:20:08.199 --> 01:20:10.119 And justin bemoaning dogpolefins. 1299 01:20:10.279 --> 01:20:12.720 Don't forget my fetal search to see a blue Thunderbomb 1300 01:20:12.760 --> 01:20:13.319 win a match. 1301 01:20:13.720 --> 01:20:14.800 How can I like? 1302 01:20:14.880 --> 01:20:17.520 The name says we cover the hottest independent promotions from 1303 01:20:17.520 --> 01:20:21.640 around the country, such as Prestige Action, West Coast, Pro, Revolver, 1304 01:20:21.960 --> 01:20:22.920 and Beyond Wrestling. 1305 01:20:23.199 --> 01:20:25.640 Actually, Chris, I think we stick pretty much to wrestling. 1306 01:20:25.800 --> 01:20:28.199 No, I mean Beyond Wrestling out of Worcester, Oh right. 1307 01:20:28.319 --> 01:20:30.880 Our show's part of the pw Torch Daily cast lineup 1308 01:20:30.880 --> 01:20:33.920 and typically drops on Thursdays. Search pw Torch in your 1309 01:20:33.920 --> 01:20:36.840 podcast app. As subscribed to the PW Torch Daily Cast 1310 01:20:37.279 --> 01:20:40.399 or stream our shows directly from PW touch dot com. 1311 01:20:40.600 --> 01:20:44.960 Find full details on the PW Torchdailycast lineup at pwtuchdailycast 1312 01:20:45.039 --> 01:20:56.079 dot com. 1313 01:20:56.119 --> 01:20:58.439 Okay, how about the women's title match is intrigued me 1314 01:20:58.520 --> 01:21:02.359 in terms of to where the belts end up. I 1315 01:21:02.359 --> 01:21:04.760 could see Nikki Cross becoming do B smack Down Women's 1316 01:21:04.800 --> 01:21:08.880 Champion and Sasha becoming RAB Women's Champion, to flip the 1317 01:21:08.960 --> 01:21:13.000 dynamic between Sasha and Bailey. I could see other scenarios too, 1318 01:21:13.159 --> 01:21:15.000 but that's the one that kind of intrigues me and 1319 01:21:15.000 --> 01:21:16.920 I first of all, let let's focus on what do 1320 01:21:16.920 --> 01:21:20.800 you think of Nikki lately and what do you think 1321 01:21:20.840 --> 01:21:24.399 of that Sasha Bailey dynamic. Do you think that it's 1322 01:21:24.439 --> 01:21:27.640 it's week to week, it's it's an example of a 1323 01:21:27.680 --> 01:21:30.159 master plan or do you think that they're kind of 1324 01:21:30.199 --> 01:21:32.880 shifting as they go a little bit based on that 1325 01:21:33.359 --> 01:21:36.319 just their their take on how things are developing between them. 1326 01:21:36.359 --> 01:21:37.720 So take either first, but cover both. 1327 01:21:38.720 --> 01:21:45.439 I I love the idea of shifting the dynamic. You know, 1328 01:21:45.600 --> 01:21:49.960 Bailey doesn't have the belts and then Sasha does. It's 1329 01:21:50.079 --> 01:21:59.000 I I have no concept and like of when they're 1330 01:21:59.039 --> 01:22:00.920 finally going to pull the trigger on the two of 1331 01:22:00.960 --> 01:22:05.279 them going into a feud. It just it may just 1332 01:22:05.439 --> 01:22:09.479 never happen. It is one of those Vince McMahon's things 1333 01:22:09.479 --> 01:22:12.119 of like, ah, you gotta take him for a ride, 1334 01:22:12.319 --> 01:22:15.800 and all of a sudden, like now we're just lost. 1335 01:22:16.319 --> 01:22:20.760 We're laws in the car. I don't feel a master 1336 01:22:20.960 --> 01:22:25.600 plan just because of who we're talking about and how 1337 01:22:25.640 --> 01:22:31.359 long this. I mean the fact that like like years 1338 01:22:31.359 --> 01:22:34.199 ago or however long ago it was when Bailey beat 1339 01:22:34.279 --> 01:22:37.399 up Sasha and it was like, finally they're doing this thing, 1340 01:22:38.119 --> 01:22:42.960 and then it just funnels into you know, doctor Shelby sketches. 1341 01:22:43.039 --> 01:22:47.199 I was just like, man, I did not see this coming. 1342 01:22:47.239 --> 01:22:49.119 It was just like, no, they're not broken up. They 1343 01:22:49.199 --> 01:22:51.920 just got to fight. Women fight. So because that's the 1344 01:22:51.960 --> 01:22:56.239 other element too, It's like Vince does not give Vince 1345 01:22:56.319 --> 01:22:59.159 is a promoter, give him something to promote. He promotes 1346 01:22:59.239 --> 01:23:03.399 a main event. That's it, that's the whole card. And frankly, 1347 01:23:03.600 --> 01:23:06.359 the truth is he promotes the men's wrestling and the 1348 01:23:06.399 --> 01:23:10.800 women's wrestling is is a secondary thought if it's even 1349 01:23:10.800 --> 01:23:13.680 a thought in his head, and the way he will 1350 01:23:13.800 --> 01:23:17.920 change those storylines on a whim speaks to how little 1351 01:23:17.960 --> 01:23:24.199 thought he gives it. That said, I would love to 1352 01:23:24.239 --> 01:23:29.520 see the belt switch for that dynamic in the storytelling. 1353 01:23:29.560 --> 01:23:33.920 Who knows where we'd get a payoff. But then you 1354 01:23:34.000 --> 01:23:37.920 could do the same thing with Nicki and Alexta. And 1355 01:23:37.960 --> 01:23:41.239 I love Nikki and I've loved Nicki since, you know, 1356 01:23:41.720 --> 01:23:44.000 I first saw her on NXC. I was like, this 1357 01:23:44.039 --> 01:23:49.399 is different, interesting, and it works. And then even transitioning 1358 01:23:49.479 --> 01:23:54.039 away from just being like a you know, an NX 1359 01:23:54.039 --> 01:23:56.479 teacher was just like a wet grumlin, like that was, 1360 01:23:57.359 --> 01:24:01.239 you know, and then actually giving her her you know, 1361 01:24:01.720 --> 01:24:05.079 some color in her face and the coffee cup and 1362 01:24:05.199 --> 01:24:09.760 like she can actually have a conversation with people. I 1363 01:24:09.840 --> 01:24:15.520 love it so But again, if we now have two 1364 01:24:15.640 --> 01:24:20.399 different tag teams doing this, you know, one's a singles 1365 01:24:20.439 --> 01:24:24.680 champ and the other one isn't growing the animosity one 1366 01:24:24.760 --> 01:24:27.760 is gonna win out or don't put it past Vince 1367 01:24:27.840 --> 01:24:30.800 to do the exact same angle with two different matches 1368 01:24:31.000 --> 01:24:36.439 and think nobody's gonna notice. So it's interesting, it'll be 1369 01:24:36.439 --> 01:24:39.720 interesting to see how it plays out. But that when 1370 01:24:39.720 --> 01:24:43.119 it comes to the women's wrestling, the the unpredictability factor 1371 01:24:43.159 --> 01:24:48.000 of Vince goes through the roof because it's he gives 1372 01:24:48.039 --> 01:24:53.520 so little thought that the contradictions abound always always, you know. 1373 01:24:55.039 --> 01:25:00.720 Are you if Sasha goes babyface alt in this if 1374 01:25:00.760 --> 01:25:04.000 that is where they end up? Is do you think 1375 01:25:04.039 --> 01:25:06.520 Sasha's shown that she's kind of at a different level 1376 01:25:06.600 --> 01:25:11.039 right now with Bake Becky you know, gone indefinitely, Rondo 1377 01:25:11.359 --> 01:25:13.760 Charlotte gone for a short you know, short amount of time, 1378 01:25:14.199 --> 01:25:16.960 and Rona Rolsey got that they've opened things up and 1379 01:25:17.039 --> 01:25:21.119 there's a spot to be had, and Sasha has a 1380 01:25:21.239 --> 01:25:24.800 passion for this. Sometimes it works against her, you know, 1381 01:25:24.840 --> 01:25:27.520 behind the scenes, but uh, and and even on camera. 1382 01:25:27.560 --> 01:25:30.920 But I wonder if this isn't an opportunity over the 1383 01:25:30.960 --> 01:25:36.399 next year for Sasha to become the alpha of the 1384 01:25:36.560 --> 01:25:40.760 entire WWE women's landscape. I I'm seeing her grow and 1385 01:25:40.800 --> 01:25:42.560 she's still pretty young. I'm seeing her kind of grow 1386 01:25:42.560 --> 01:25:42.880 into this. 1387 01:25:43.720 --> 01:25:47.239 Yeah, No, I think that you're right because Vince has 1388 01:25:47.279 --> 01:25:55.000 never understood Osca. It's she is not his uh you know, 1389 01:25:57.079 --> 01:26:02.039 she's not niage, you know, and hopefully then will hopefully 1390 01:26:02.079 --> 01:26:07.720 they just ease off on Nya being you know, Vince's 1391 01:26:07.840 --> 01:26:12.800 idea of what a woman rustler needs to be. But 1392 01:26:13.199 --> 01:26:17.119 you know that's just Vince's Vince. But Sasha is in 1393 01:26:17.159 --> 01:26:24.840 a great spot because she's she's just so good and 1394 01:26:25.520 --> 01:26:28.720 like you said, there's just I don't know, I mean, 1395 01:26:29.760 --> 01:26:32.840 the Charlotte is always like it just always feels like 1396 01:26:32.960 --> 01:26:36.960 she's kind of the you know, the chosen one. Uh, 1397 01:26:37.439 --> 01:26:40.479 She's she actually, no, I think about it. She feels 1398 01:26:40.520 --> 01:26:45.720 like the at least in the company's view, she's the 1399 01:26:45.800 --> 01:26:49.880 Randy Orton equivalent of just you know, the old reliable, 1400 01:26:49.960 --> 01:26:57.039 will always get it and always be given the golden ticket. 1401 01:26:57.279 --> 01:26:59.520 I can't speak to whether she has the same attitude 1402 01:26:59.520 --> 01:27:05.359 as like a but that being said, she definitely prefers 1403 01:27:05.399 --> 01:27:08.239 to be a heel the same way Randy does. And 1404 01:27:08.279 --> 01:27:11.920 then even when both of those wrestlers have booked his babyfaces, 1405 01:27:11.960 --> 01:27:14.560 they'll go out there and just cut heel promos and 1406 01:27:14.560 --> 01:27:18.079 then I'm left confused at home on my couch. And 1407 01:27:18.119 --> 01:27:21.840 then but they're so you know, they walk on water 1408 01:27:21.960 --> 01:27:25.239 with the people up top, that there's no resolution to it. 1409 01:27:26.720 --> 01:27:31.479 So that is interesting too. But with Sasha, I think 1410 01:27:31.520 --> 01:27:35.640 the sky's the limit because she's got everything. She's got, 1411 01:27:35.640 --> 01:27:39.159 the look, she's got, the she's got the the the passion, 1412 01:27:39.239 --> 01:27:45.439 she's got the mic skills, she's got the ring skills, 1413 01:27:45.479 --> 01:27:48.119 and then it's just give her some opponents, you know, 1414 01:27:48.199 --> 01:27:48.920 and they can do. 1415 01:27:50.520 --> 01:27:50.760 Her. 1416 01:27:50.800 --> 01:27:55.840 And Bailey, you know that's already you know, Steamboat and Flair, 1417 01:27:56.199 --> 01:27:58.439 you know. So it's just like we're just waiting to 1418 01:27:58.439 --> 01:28:02.079 get back there because they their matches, you know, from 1419 01:28:02.159 --> 01:28:05.680 back in the day, but now you know, some of 1420 01:28:05.680 --> 01:28:10.640 the best stuff I've ever seen man or woman. But 1421 01:28:10.840 --> 01:28:17.079 it's I'm just I don't know, I love that. That's 1422 01:28:17.119 --> 01:28:20.399 something that's it's almost like we should get a Bailey 1423 01:28:20.439 --> 01:28:24.479 and Sasha program, you know, once a year, and then 1424 01:28:24.520 --> 01:28:27.239 they become friends again and it goes back into the rivalry. 1425 01:28:27.319 --> 01:28:31.279 It's just like it's I can watch those two rest 1426 01:28:31.319 --> 01:28:33.800 of all day. It's like Punkin' Brian or you know, 1427 01:28:33.920 --> 01:28:37.880 Kurt Angle and Ben Wah. Not watch any Ben wa 1428 01:28:37.880 --> 01:28:40.600 matches anymore. I just can't. But you know what I mean, 1429 01:28:41.680 --> 01:28:43.119 it's that flare Steamboat thing. 1430 01:28:45.560 --> 01:28:47.119 Give yourself a reason to look forward to going to 1431 01:28:47.159 --> 01:28:50.680 the mailbox each week with a PW Torch newsletter paper copy. 1432 01:28:50.800 --> 01:28:55.199 Subscription details at PW torch dot com. Slash paper copy. 1433 01:28:55.399 --> 01:28:58.199 It's twelve pages every week packed with my TV reports, 1434 01:28:58.199 --> 01:29:00.760 along with exclusive features such as my cover story on 1435 01:29:00.800 --> 01:29:03.039 the top story of the week, our pay per view 1436 01:29:03.119 --> 01:29:06.800 roundtable reviews from the Torch staff, exclusive feature length columns 1437 01:29:06.800 --> 01:29:10.920 from Greg Parks, Rich Fan, Sean Radikin, Alan Coonahan and 1438 01:29:11.039 --> 01:29:14.800 Zach Haydorn, Torch Talk transcripts, the latest news, and more. 1439 01:29:15.159 --> 01:29:18.800 PW Torch dot Com slash paper Copy take a break 1440 01:29:18.840 --> 01:29:22.039 from screen time and settle in every week with a 1441 01:29:22.039 --> 01:29:25.079 megadosu wrestling news and analysis. With a Pro Wrestling Torch 1442 01:29:25.119 --> 01:29:28.479 newsletter paper copy edition in the year twenty twenty two. 1443 01:29:28.960 --> 01:29:31.439 You can get a full year of home delivery for 1444 01:29:31.600 --> 01:29:34.640 just ninety nine dollars, or try us for an eight 1445 01:29:34.640 --> 01:29:45.159 week trial subscription. PW Torch dot Com Slash Paper Copy's 1446 01:29:45.279 --> 01:29:48.039 what's been the journey that you've been on with Bailey 1447 01:29:48.800 --> 01:29:51.720 in this empty arena era? Because you know, she and 1448 01:29:51.760 --> 01:29:55.439 Sasha were sort of, you know, kick things off in 1449 01:29:55.520 --> 01:30:00.680 that eerie, creepy, disconcerting SmackDown without a crowd, and I 1450 01:30:00.720 --> 01:30:04.800 think she's grown a lot, and I think as a heel, 1451 01:30:04.840 --> 01:30:07.279 I'm more interested in her now than I was, you know, 1452 01:30:08.039 --> 01:30:12.199 even before the pandemic. How about you like what's her 1453 01:30:12.279 --> 01:30:14.800 trajectory now is what hasn't been And where do you 1454 01:30:14.840 --> 01:30:17.279 see her going in the next year or two even 1455 01:30:17.359 --> 01:30:19.560 as a as a valuable player in the women's vision. 1456 01:30:20.199 --> 01:30:24.600 Oh my god. Yeah, she's like she if they could 1457 01:30:24.640 --> 01:30:27.079 figure out a way, Yes, I think she's doing her 1458 01:30:27.079 --> 01:30:33.720 best stuff. I think that the you know, the hug 1459 01:30:34.439 --> 01:30:40.079 the Hug Girl thing had you know, didn't hadn't translated 1460 01:30:40.359 --> 01:30:47.079 onto the main roster, and she needed something and she 1461 01:30:47.119 --> 01:30:52.399 needed something quick. And as far as like, you know, 1462 01:30:52.800 --> 01:30:54.840 it makes me think of like the Undertaker with It's 1463 01:30:54.840 --> 01:30:57.880 like it's such a rigid character and then he needed 1464 01:30:57.920 --> 01:31:00.199 something to refresh it. I was never a fan of 1465 01:31:00.239 --> 01:31:04.680 the American Badass, but it was like, fine, he needed something. 1466 01:31:05.960 --> 01:31:08.560 And then when he finally went back to you know, 1467 01:31:09.000 --> 01:31:12.119 the dead Man or the Gunslinger or the hybrid type 1468 01:31:12.199 --> 01:31:15.319 thing of it. You know, I always preferred Undertaker when 1469 01:31:15.359 --> 01:31:18.399 he was the Undertaker the dead Man, and not not 1470 01:31:18.479 --> 01:31:21.319 the times where it felt like he was a UFC 1471 01:31:21.520 --> 01:31:27.079 guy whose nickname was Undertaker. You know, with Bailey, I 1472 01:31:27.119 --> 01:31:30.439 feel like this works a lot better than the American Badass, 1473 01:31:30.840 --> 01:31:36.840 if there is a way, And I would never put 1474 01:31:36.840 --> 01:31:38.840 it this way, if I was at WWE. I wouldn't 1475 01:31:38.880 --> 01:31:42.600 pitch this because I would be terrified of them screwing 1476 01:31:42.600 --> 01:31:47.000 it up. But there is with the new haircut and 1477 01:31:47.039 --> 01:31:50.000 the new attitude, and very quickly with the haircut, she 1478 01:31:50.359 --> 01:31:52.760 was you know, Aunt Pam or whatever. She just looks 1479 01:31:52.840 --> 01:31:56.159 like you know, she aged herself like twenty years and 1480 01:31:56.199 --> 01:31:58.840 the fact that she's a heel. There is something they 1481 01:31:58.880 --> 01:32:03.039 could do if they could figure out a way to 1482 01:32:03.319 --> 01:32:05.920 like make her like like on Twitter where just this 1483 01:32:06.079 --> 01:32:10.159 year where it turned into you know, the the the 1484 01:32:10.239 --> 01:32:15.239 angry white woman just became called Karen. If we could 1485 01:32:15.279 --> 01:32:20.439 turn that into Dailey's characters, or she's constantly where she's 1486 01:32:20.479 --> 01:32:24.760 constantly trying to get the baby faces in trouble with 1487 01:32:25.000 --> 01:32:28.119 like she's always calling, for lack of a better term, 1488 01:32:28.199 --> 01:32:30.960 she's she's always calling the cops on the baby faces. 1489 01:32:31.000 --> 01:32:36.159 She's always trying to get everyone else in trouble. She's 1490 01:32:36.199 --> 01:32:39.479 like halfway there. They just need that, you know, she 1491 01:32:39.600 --> 01:32:40.800 needs to be a tattletale. 1492 01:32:41.840 --> 01:32:44.439 Need to do that. We need where she's asking to 1493 01:32:44.439 --> 01:32:45.479 see the manager. 1494 01:32:46.319 --> 01:32:50.239 Exactly, Yeah, I want to speak to the general manager. 1495 01:32:50.399 --> 01:32:55.119 You know that that's she's just constantly complaining, Uh, that 1496 01:32:55.399 --> 01:33:00.600 thing I feel like that's the perfect progression for her character, 1497 01:33:00.760 --> 01:33:04.319 and she's she's she's almost there already, but like, yeah, 1498 01:33:04.359 --> 01:33:08.680 we just need that because there's nothing better than a 1499 01:33:08.960 --> 01:33:12.680 than a heel when they have something to complain about. Yes, 1500 01:33:13.720 --> 01:33:15.720 I always felt that that was the case with Miz 1501 01:33:15.760 --> 01:33:18.119 and I feel like that's the place that like the 1502 01:33:18.199 --> 01:33:22.079 Bailey character can go because she you know, people already 1503 01:33:22.119 --> 01:33:24.159 have that feeling when they look at her of like 1504 01:33:25.159 --> 01:33:28.600 this woman has never bitten into a piece of food 1505 01:33:28.840 --> 01:33:32.800 and not complained, you know that type of thing. Maybe 1506 01:33:32.760 --> 01:33:34.720 you have those vignettes where like they just go out 1507 01:33:34.760 --> 01:33:39.079 to lunch or something. I mean, yeah, if well, you 1508 01:33:39.119 --> 01:33:41.880 know whatever, you can't go out to lunch anymore. But 1509 01:33:42.159 --> 01:33:43.119 they are in Florida, so. 1510 01:33:45.560 --> 01:33:48.760 Yeah, but at any rate, Yeah, so what match you're 1511 01:33:48.760 --> 01:33:50.640 looking for to most, now that we've talked about the 1512 01:33:50.720 --> 01:33:52.079 six advertised matches at this. 1513 01:33:52.039 --> 01:33:55.239 Point, I mean the Swamp just because I think the 1514 01:33:55.279 --> 01:34:03.119 cinematic stuff is I've found it very enjoyable. I'm intrigued 1515 01:34:03.319 --> 01:34:07.680 about the eyeball match, but you know, just out of 1516 01:34:07.920 --> 01:34:10.159 you know, I love going to bad movies, and that's 1517 01:34:10.159 --> 01:34:11.600 what it feels like it might turn out to be. 1518 01:34:12.680 --> 01:34:17.960 The probably the best bell. The bell will be Drew 1519 01:34:18.079 --> 01:34:22.720 and Dolph, but it's it's again, you know, who knows 1520 01:34:22.720 --> 01:34:24.640 what will happen? I mean, Sasha and Oscar. It's like, 1521 01:34:24.920 --> 01:34:27.479 come on, like, that's that's my dream match. Give them 1522 01:34:27.479 --> 01:34:31.319 forty five minutes, you know, just just you know, lead. 1523 01:34:32.520 --> 01:34:37.560 Hopefully we don't get inundated with Priest show matches and 1524 01:34:37.600 --> 01:34:40.800 then a like a like alls in the card is 1525 01:34:40.880 --> 01:34:47.119 like three times as long with unadvertised matches. If we 1526 01:34:47.159 --> 01:34:50.520 could leave it with this card and give those matches 1527 01:34:50.560 --> 01:34:57.039 some time, particularly the singles title shots, it could be 1528 01:34:57.079 --> 01:34:59.960 an all time classic. But you know, I'm a dreamer. 1529 01:35:00.840 --> 01:35:01.159 Yes. 1530 01:35:09.680 --> 01:35:12.079 Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back, 1531 01:35:12.239 --> 01:35:15.279 relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share 1532 01:35:15.319 --> 01:35:15.840 your passion. 1533 01:35:16.399 --> 01:35:18.239 Do you want to be topped off the ledge after 1534 01:35:18.239 --> 01:35:20.520 a segment that has you wondering what the heck are 1535 01:35:20.520 --> 01:35:21.000 they thinking? 1536 01:35:21.640 --> 01:35:24.119 Do you want to join a discussion on what AW 1537 01:35:24.199 --> 01:35:26.640 is doing right and what they could do to improve? 1538 01:35:26.960 --> 01:35:29.279 Then join me Joel and me Greg for. 1539 01:35:29.279 --> 01:35:32.199 The All Elite Conversation Club every Friday on the PW 1540 01:35:32.239 --> 01:35:36.119 Torch Live cast. Fee search pw Torch in your podcast 1541 01:35:36.159 --> 01:35:39.439 app and subscribe to PW Torchdaily Cast or stream our 1542 01:35:39.479 --> 01:35:42.880 shows directly from pw torch dot com. Find full details 1543 01:35:42.920 --> 01:35:56.279 on the PW Torchdailycast lineup at PW torchdailycast dot com. 1544 01:35:56.399 --> 01:35:59.560 We now move into the VIP exclusive aftershow portion of 1545 01:35:59.560 --> 01:36:02.520 the program with bonus content as I talk with Matt 1546 01:36:02.560 --> 01:36:07.079 about ae W versus NXT, including his thoughts on how 1547 01:36:07.119 --> 01:36:10.600 AW has done so far promoting some of its top stars. 1548 01:36:10.640 --> 01:36:15.279 So here we go this exclusive segment just for VIP members. 1549 01:36:17.640 --> 01:36:20.279 We again just your thoughts off topic on the AW 1550 01:36:20.560 --> 01:36:23.479 NXT battle on Wednesday nights, and just how you're feeling about. 1551 01:36:24.199 --> 01:36:25.800 Oh my god, it's the greatest time to be a 1552 01:36:25.800 --> 01:36:29.600 wrestling fan. We're so I mean, we can't go, we 1553 01:36:29.720 --> 01:36:36.680 can't and the you know, the the no fans watching 1554 01:36:36.720 --> 01:36:40.600 it was awkward. I feel like I've gotten used to it. 1555 01:36:40.640 --> 01:36:44.960 I feel like put it this way. When New Japan started, 1556 01:36:45.640 --> 01:36:49.680 I was like, God, they rely so little on the crowd, 1557 01:36:50.279 --> 01:36:54.560 and some matches they do, but more times than not, 1558 01:36:54.680 --> 01:36:57.000 I was just like, Ah, this is just such a good, 1559 01:36:57.039 --> 01:36:59.319 solid wrestling. I don't care that there's not an audience. 1560 01:36:59.319 --> 01:37:02.000 In fact, it reminded me of watching old Japanese footage 1561 01:37:02.000 --> 01:37:04.079 where the people would just be quiet the whole time. 1562 01:37:06.039 --> 01:37:10.319 Aew right away, I felt like I loved the heels 1563 01:37:10.359 --> 01:37:12.600 on one side, baby faces on the other side. I 1564 01:37:12.640 --> 01:37:14.960 love that it almost got to the point where I 1565 01:37:14.960 --> 01:37:17.239 was like, God, I'm going to miss this one. Like 1566 01:37:17.720 --> 01:37:19.760 they go back to having fans, Like, I feel like 1567 01:37:20.039 --> 01:37:22.680 there should still be cinematic matches once in a while, 1568 01:37:23.119 --> 01:37:25.399 even when fans come back. I still feel like there 1569 01:37:25.439 --> 01:37:27.840 should be you know, for lack of a better term, 1570 01:37:27.920 --> 01:37:31.000 dojo matches where it's just like heels on one side, 1571 01:37:31.000 --> 01:37:33.960 baby faces on the other. It's just like I love 1572 01:37:34.399 --> 01:37:41.119 they created an atmosphere that was fresh and compelling. I 1573 01:37:41.119 --> 01:37:43.479 think when it comes down to it, I prefer Dynamite 1574 01:37:43.520 --> 01:37:47.920 to NXT because NXT still has that, you know, it 1575 01:37:48.039 --> 01:37:54.119 still has that WWE feel, which is not always a 1576 01:37:54.159 --> 01:37:59.439 bad thing, but there is just something about the plastic 1577 01:37:59.680 --> 01:38:04.760 look of the lighting. Yeah, the you know, the the 1578 01:38:04.760 --> 01:38:09.960 the audience. I I hate the way that WWEE lights 1579 01:38:09.960 --> 01:38:13.560 their shows and going live. It's very frustrating if you 1580 01:38:13.600 --> 01:38:16.840 have like a red or a blue light like flooding 1581 01:38:16.880 --> 01:38:21.239 your vision. I remember we went to something. Was it 1582 01:38:21.279 --> 01:38:23.960 a house show or was it a taping, but like 1583 01:38:24.359 --> 01:38:26.119 it might have been a house show and they had 1584 01:38:26.159 --> 01:38:28.359 like the dumb lighting on and then for the main event, 1585 01:38:29.279 --> 01:38:32.479 they switched off the lighting and they did classic lighting 1586 01:38:32.479 --> 01:38:34.960 where the crowd was dark and it was just spotlight 1587 01:38:35.039 --> 01:38:37.560 on the ring. And dude, let me tell you, this 1588 01:38:37.600 --> 01:38:39.800 is at the Staples Center. As soon as those lights 1589 01:38:40.039 --> 01:38:42.000 shut off and they did it the way that you're 1590 01:38:42.039 --> 01:38:45.640 supposed to light a wrestling show, there was an audible 1591 01:38:45.760 --> 01:38:50.600 sigh of relief from the entire arena. Wow. Like it's 1592 01:38:50.640 --> 01:38:53.399 one of those It's like when there's an annoying sound 1593 01:38:53.439 --> 01:38:56.159 outside and you don't realize what a relief it is 1594 01:38:56.199 --> 01:38:59.920 that it's gone until it's gone, Like you could see again, 1595 01:39:00.199 --> 01:39:06.319 you know. So at any rate, there is the that aspect, 1596 01:39:06.439 --> 01:39:09.000 the phony crowd aspect on NXC. I'm not digging in, 1597 01:39:09.039 --> 01:39:13.319 but there's also this that there's that thing of as 1598 01:39:13.359 --> 01:39:16.960 great as Adam Cole and Keith Lee was, there still 1599 01:39:17.000 --> 01:39:18.960 is that thing of they have to do with the 1600 01:39:19.039 --> 01:39:24.520 WWE way. And I'm constantly worried, like who's going to 1601 01:39:24.600 --> 01:39:26.560 be scooped up, Who's going to be brought up to 1602 01:39:26.600 --> 01:39:28.920 the main roster to be buried next? You know, like 1603 01:39:29.760 --> 01:39:32.439 like somebody on on We Watch Wrestling, we did we 1604 01:39:32.520 --> 01:39:34.399 do a Q and A on our Patreon, Somebody's like, 1605 01:39:34.399 --> 01:39:35.640 what do you think is going to happen to the 1606 01:39:35.760 --> 01:39:40.439 Undisputed era? And I'm like, maybe maybe one of them 1607 01:39:40.479 --> 01:39:42.319 will get a push on the main roster for a 1608 01:39:42.359 --> 01:39:46.279 little while, But I like, I honestly the best case 1609 01:39:46.279 --> 01:39:49.239 scenario with those guys, and those those are like my 1610 01:39:49.319 --> 01:39:52.359 favorite guys. I think everybody feels that way. But it's 1611 01:39:52.399 --> 01:39:54.560 like they're just like I don't need them to be 1612 01:39:54.720 --> 01:39:59.039 some badass action on two of five lives, and that 1613 01:39:59.079 --> 01:40:01.439 feels like the best a scenario for them. So there 1614 01:40:01.520 --> 01:40:05.920 is that there is that feeling of impending doom when 1615 01:40:05.960 --> 01:40:08.840 I watch NXT that I don't have for ADW because 1616 01:40:08.840 --> 01:40:10.399 that's the last stops. 1617 01:40:10.520 --> 01:40:13.319 It's like being a fan of a small market sports 1618 01:40:13.359 --> 01:40:16.359 team when you know your star is gonna sign as 1619 01:40:16.399 --> 01:40:19.039 a free agent with Miami or New York or LA 1620 01:40:19.279 --> 01:40:19.880 or Chicago. 1621 01:40:19.960 --> 01:40:23.479 Yet because when I watch MJF and Jungle Boy and 1622 01:40:23.520 --> 01:40:26.199 I see the potential of like, gosh, they're going to 1623 01:40:26.239 --> 01:40:31.880 be huge someday, when I watch NXT, I'm scared for them, 1624 01:40:33.359 --> 01:40:36.079 you know, And so it holds me back. It's like 1625 01:40:36.159 --> 01:40:39.239 that old thing of like in every Vietnam movie, the 1626 01:40:39.319 --> 01:40:41.239 major's like, I don't learn the names of the new 1627 01:40:41.279 --> 01:40:44.840 guys because eventually, you know, it's just because the turnover 1628 01:40:45.439 --> 01:40:47.880 and the death rate of just like, well, why am 1629 01:40:47.920 --> 01:40:50.399 I gonna why am I going to endear myself to 1630 01:40:50.439 --> 01:40:53.960 this guy if he's just gonna get buried? You know, 1631 01:40:55.159 --> 01:40:56.920 it's one of those things I just don't want to 1632 01:40:56.920 --> 01:41:00.239 get my heart broken constantly. There is that aspect to 1633 01:41:00.319 --> 01:41:02.880 it too, plus a w SIS pressure. You know, it's 1634 01:41:02.920 --> 01:41:05.359 just it's just not an instant man show. Even though 1635 01:41:05.399 --> 01:41:09.680 he's very limited, he's not involved in NXT, but there's 1636 01:41:09.680 --> 01:41:12.199 still is it's still a w w E show, So 1637 01:41:12.279 --> 01:41:15.079 it still has those fingerprints all over it. 1638 01:41:16.039 --> 01:41:24.199 Sports Entertainment Championships Opportunity. Yeah, I mean yes, there's a bird, 1639 01:41:24.439 --> 01:41:26.199 a bird's nest full of baby birds falls out of 1640 01:41:26.199 --> 01:41:32.600 a tree every time Maorrow Ronaldo's Sports Entertainment the Uh, 1641 01:41:33.800 --> 01:41:36.960 how do you grade a few of these aw wrestlers 1642 01:41:36.960 --> 01:41:40.560 compared to your expectations going into it? In last October, 1643 01:41:40.920 --> 01:41:43.359 Kenny Omega, Ah. 1644 01:41:43.960 --> 01:41:50.600 He's cooled off. I mean he's cooled off far to say, I. 1645 01:41:50.600 --> 01:41:53.560 Mean great, some great matches, But who is Ian? He 1646 01:41:53.600 --> 01:41:55.840 doesn't seem like a star now, it doesn't. I don't 1647 01:41:55.840 --> 01:41:57.800 know if he can even become a star now after 1648 01:41:57.840 --> 01:42:01.439 what after him just self indulgence, goofing off and acting 1649 01:42:01.439 --> 01:42:03.479 self entitled to great pops every time he comes out 1650 01:42:03.600 --> 01:42:06.600 not working. He's just he's good. He's you know, he's 1651 01:42:06.600 --> 01:42:09.039 good for some good minutes in the ring, But who 1652 01:42:09.119 --> 01:42:11.479 is he? And he there's nothing about him that said 1653 01:42:11.800 --> 01:42:13.640 I'm a star and I'm hungry to prove it to 1654 01:42:13.680 --> 01:42:15.600 a larger audience of the United States. Nothing. 1655 01:42:17.359 --> 01:42:21.000 I wouldn't give it a nap, yeah, but I do 1656 01:42:21.039 --> 01:42:25.000 give it like a C or C minus because I'm 1657 01:42:25.039 --> 01:42:28.920 still there's I feel like one of two things is happening, 1658 01:42:29.000 --> 01:42:31.880 or maybe both. It's just he's in a holding pattern 1659 01:42:32.479 --> 01:42:37.800 for big matches down the line, or it also feels 1660 01:42:37.840 --> 01:42:41.279 like it reminds me of like kind of a ton 1661 01:42:41.359 --> 01:42:43.319 of Hashi, where I'm just like, is he just so 1662 01:42:43.840 --> 01:42:47.520 beat up and hurt that he's just trying to stay 1663 01:42:48.079 --> 01:42:50.800 on the show when he can and he's just healing 1664 01:42:50.880 --> 01:42:54.880 up most of the time. That's my concern, But my 1665 01:42:55.000 --> 01:42:59.279 hope is that it's just My hope is that we 1666 01:42:59.359 --> 01:43:02.880 are looking at long term storytelling and that this thing 1667 01:43:02.920 --> 01:43:07.720 with him and Hangman is headed somewhere spectacular and it's 1668 01:43:07.800 --> 01:43:09.520 one of these things. I have faith that with a 1669 01:43:09.920 --> 01:43:12.239 w because it is there's a lot of like that 1670 01:43:12.319 --> 01:43:15.520 New Japan thing where you can look back, like I'm 1671 01:43:15.560 --> 01:43:19.960 interested with like Evil now, like looking back like where 1672 01:43:20.880 --> 01:43:22.119 where did this start? 1673 01:43:22.479 --> 01:43:22.720 You know? 1674 01:43:23.000 --> 01:43:25.840 Is there were there pieces that were there that I 1675 01:43:25.840 --> 01:43:31.119 didn't see, right, I don't know. It's always interesting or 1676 01:43:31.159 --> 01:43:32.760 it could have just been a hot shot thing. I 1677 01:43:33.079 --> 01:43:35.359 honestly don't know, Like where he ghetto is in a 1678 01:43:35.399 --> 01:43:37.600 bind and he's like, I got it. We need a topy, 1679 01:43:38.119 --> 01:43:38.840 we need him now. 1680 01:43:39.680 --> 01:43:43.039 Yeah, this felt like that famous Bill Watts UWF episode 1681 01:43:43.039 --> 01:43:46.000 where like all the titles changed hands on one show. 1682 01:43:46.680 --> 01:43:51.039 You know, it's like, let's just shake things up with evil. 1683 01:43:51.039 --> 01:43:53.800 But then you know, yeah, it's it's it's New Japan. 1684 01:43:53.880 --> 01:43:55.960 So you figure, you know this, this had to be 1685 01:43:55.960 --> 01:43:58.359 a hand that they at least had considered and set 1686 01:43:58.359 --> 01:43:58.840 the table for. 1687 01:44:01.159 --> 01:44:04.520 Yeah. Yeah, I'm curious because like those four months or 1688 01:44:04.560 --> 01:44:09.479 whatever where they were off. Yeah, it's like I'm sure 1689 01:44:09.520 --> 01:44:13.239 that there were things in place that we might have 1690 01:44:13.279 --> 01:44:16.359 gotten to the destination without taking all of the urns. 1691 01:44:16.920 --> 01:44:19.720 And you know what, if you have J White, that 1692 01:44:19.800 --> 01:44:21.479 could change everything, you know what I mean, just one 1693 01:44:21.520 --> 01:44:23.920 guy who's not there, how many how many of the 1694 01:44:23.920 --> 01:44:28.199 people who aren't there led to the lay of the 1695 01:44:28.279 --> 01:44:30.800 land and going, yeah, let's I think the card I 1696 01:44:30.840 --> 01:44:33.239 want to play to create a buzz and get back 1697 01:44:33.279 --> 01:44:36.000 in the news and you know, save some other things 1698 01:44:36.039 --> 01:44:38.439 for later. But do this now, you know, I mean, yeah, 1699 01:44:38.479 --> 01:44:41.760 I can imagine the process being or that I can 1700 01:44:41.800 --> 01:44:44.199 imagine this weekend, this past weekend playing ou dramatically differently 1701 01:44:44.239 --> 01:44:46.560 if they had access to just J White or everybody 1702 01:44:46.640 --> 01:44:47.720 who they don't. 1703 01:44:47.520 --> 01:44:50.399 Right now, Yeah, yeah, I think So. 1704 01:44:52.319 --> 01:44:54.119 We're about to go to a commercial break. Why let's 1705 01:44:54.119 --> 01:44:56.279 say of commercial breaks when you can go v ip 1706 01:44:56.520 --> 01:44:58.880 and experience our shows with the ads and plugs removed. 1707 01:44:58.880 --> 01:45:02.800 Pw torch dot com slash go vi ip. That's PW 1708 01:45:02.880 --> 01:45:05.600 torch dot com slash go vip for full details, or 1709 01:45:05.880 --> 01:45:09.359 go to Patreon, Patreon dot com, slash PW Torch. VIP 1710 01:45:09.680 --> 01:45:11.920 rate start as low as four dollars in ninety nine 1711 01:45:11.920 --> 01:45:14.239 cents to remove the ads and plugs For Patreon. Full 1712 01:45:14.319 --> 01:45:17.159 VIP membership starts at nine dollars in ninety nine cents 1713 01:45:17.279 --> 01:45:19.800 to treat yourself to a streamlined, add and plug free 1714 01:45:19.840 --> 01:45:25.600 listening experience with a VIP or Patreon membership. How do 1715 01:45:25.680 --> 01:45:26.720 you great Young Bucks? 1716 01:45:29.760 --> 01:45:38.159 I mean, I mean maybe maybe I don't know, maybe 1717 01:45:38.159 --> 01:45:40.600 an ay, and just because it's still like when they're 1718 01:45:40.640 --> 01:45:43.920 it's just it's one of these things though. Where they are, 1719 01:45:45.960 --> 01:45:50.920 they are doing a great job the company of building 1720 01:45:53.119 --> 01:45:58.199 of new stars. And if it's at the expense of 1721 01:45:58.399 --> 01:46:00.479 the big stars they had coming in, I don't know 1722 01:46:00.479 --> 01:46:04.199 that that's the necessarily the case with like Cody or Jericho, 1723 01:46:06.359 --> 01:46:13.039 who've been consistently positioned in like a top thing. But 1724 01:46:13.199 --> 01:46:17.520 the Bucks once they get in the ring are still 1725 01:46:17.600 --> 01:46:24.680 killing it. But they are. It's just it's interesting again. 1726 01:46:24.800 --> 01:46:28.000 I feel like it's got to be going somewhere because 1727 01:46:28.000 --> 01:46:32.439 it's like, how have they not been you know, how 1728 01:46:32.479 --> 01:46:35.680 are they not the tag champs type of thing? But 1729 01:46:35.760 --> 01:46:41.720 it's like, I don't know, when they finally get to 1730 01:46:41.800 --> 01:46:46.159 them in the FDR, I think that'll be super cool. 1731 01:46:46.520 --> 01:46:52.000 You know. Obviously them Kenny and Hangman had like the 1732 01:46:52.319 --> 01:46:56.319 craziest tag match. I mean, it's just like it's undeniable. 1733 01:46:56.399 --> 01:47:01.159 So it's like they I think that I think that 1734 01:47:01.199 --> 01:47:07.680 the company is doing a good job. I think I 1735 01:47:07.680 --> 01:47:09.600 would give them an a minus because I think that 1736 01:47:09.640 --> 01:47:13.520 it's another piece in this thing where they're not giving 1737 01:47:13.600 --> 01:47:20.560 everything away right away and we are so used to god, 1738 01:47:20.640 --> 01:47:24.840 twenty five years of hot shot booking to the point 1739 01:47:24.840 --> 01:47:28.039 where I've seen it. I've seen the match already. Like 1740 01:47:28.840 --> 01:47:31.359 I remember when I was at WWE, and it was 1741 01:47:31.399 --> 01:47:37.439 like they were trying so hard to keep like it 1742 01:47:37.520 --> 01:47:39.399 was Alberto and somebody. I don't know if it was 1743 01:47:39.439 --> 01:47:44.880 Alberto and Sina or Alberto and Orton, but there was 1744 01:47:45.079 --> 01:47:47.439 or maybe even Alberto and Punk. There was somebody that 1745 01:47:47.520 --> 01:47:52.199 it was like they were trying so hard to keep 1746 01:47:52.239 --> 01:47:56.560 those two apart so that they had a marquee match 1747 01:47:56.720 --> 01:47:59.159 at some point to get to on a big show. 1748 01:48:00.239 --> 01:48:02.600 That it's just because you look at look at WWE 1749 01:48:02.960 --> 01:48:06.880 when when they do the Mania, more times than not 1750 01:48:07.119 --> 01:48:11.119 they are bringing back old talent because the new talent 1751 01:48:11.159 --> 01:48:15.399 isn't over and they've wrestled everybody, and then the only 1752 01:48:15.439 --> 01:48:18.199 way to get a fresh, interesting match is to bring 1753 01:48:18.239 --> 01:48:22.880 someone out of retirement. So there is this thing of 1754 01:48:23.199 --> 01:48:26.159 the way that Dynamite is doing it. They are building 1755 01:48:26.199 --> 01:48:31.600 the new stars, which then builds intrigue to well, god, 1756 01:48:31.680 --> 01:48:35.359 I finally when we finally get to you know, and 1757 01:48:35.399 --> 01:48:37.159 we're not even a year in, but it's just like 1758 01:48:37.359 --> 01:48:41.760 when we finally get to like MJF and Kenny having 1759 01:48:41.760 --> 01:48:44.840 a few, and it's just like that doesn't even seem 1760 01:48:44.880 --> 01:48:46.840 like it's in the cards right now, but it's like 1761 01:48:47.159 --> 01:48:50.560 that'll be a killer thing someday, maybe even in like 1762 01:48:50.680 --> 01:48:53.439 two or three years. It's like there's no rush because 1763 01:48:53.439 --> 01:48:56.000 they're doing such a good job building the rest of it. 1764 01:48:57.520 --> 01:49:00.960 Do you think somebody who started watching dynam I from 1765 01:49:00.960 --> 01:49:05.279 the beginning but hadn't watched the Elite or any of 1766 01:49:05.279 --> 01:49:08.720 the content from the Top Stars before that, and was 1767 01:49:09.119 --> 01:49:11.239 also tempted to watch NXT, do you think the young 1768 01:49:11.319 --> 01:49:18.239 bucks have been established like who they are and given 1769 01:49:18.319 --> 01:49:21.479 somebody knew a reason to become a big fan of theirs, 1770 01:49:22.119 --> 01:49:25.000 Because that's what concerns me about Aw's. I think there's 1771 01:49:25.039 --> 01:49:28.399 this they're surrounded in a bubble by people who worship them, 1772 01:49:28.479 --> 01:49:33.119 and it's this tiny minuscule number relative to where Dynamite 1773 01:49:33.159 --> 01:49:35.720 should be given the talent that they have. And I 1774 01:49:35.720 --> 01:49:38.239 don't feel like with Kenny and the Bucks in particular, 1775 01:49:38.279 --> 01:49:43.680 those two that there's been to me a self awareness 1776 01:49:44.159 --> 01:49:48.760 of having to start from ground zero and rebuild and 1777 01:49:48.920 --> 01:49:51.880 establish who they are with this whole other, vast, potential, 1778 01:49:51.960 --> 01:49:54.720 larger universe. And I feel they both kind of walk 1779 01:49:54.760 --> 01:49:58.159 out there like they're hot shit and just watch us 1780 01:49:58.199 --> 01:50:00.720 and it'll become obvious. It's self apparent because look at 1781 01:50:00.720 --> 01:50:02.319 how much the people who have seen us love us, 1782 01:50:02.680 --> 01:50:04.800 And I just don't see aw putting in the elbow 1783 01:50:04.840 --> 01:50:09.159 grease to establish who they are and frame them as stars. 1784 01:50:09.159 --> 01:50:11.359 And when I do watch some of the glossier content 1785 01:50:11.399 --> 01:50:14.960 that WNNXT put together, I want to see that done. 1786 01:50:15.199 --> 01:50:17.119 It's not about fast forwarding the booking, you know, or 1787 01:50:17.159 --> 01:50:21.319 hot shotting, but it's about framing and presenting some of 1788 01:50:21.359 --> 01:50:24.479 their top guys as big stars. And I don't know 1789 01:50:24.560 --> 01:50:27.119 that Dynamite spent in that game, is even playing that 1790 01:50:27.159 --> 01:50:29.720 game or believes it's important, and that frustrates me a little. 1791 01:50:32.079 --> 01:50:36.439 Well. That was That's kind of how I was introduced 1792 01:50:36.439 --> 01:50:38.840 to the Bucks. I just started going to indie shows 1793 01:50:40.600 --> 01:50:42.800 and they got to Killer Reaction. They would come out 1794 01:50:42.800 --> 01:50:46.960 and recida, you know, a PWG, and I had maybe 1795 01:50:47.039 --> 01:50:49.560 i'd seen them once before at a Ring of Honor, 1796 01:50:49.920 --> 01:50:56.399 like years before and didn't even remember, and it was 1797 01:50:56.439 --> 01:50:58.720 one of those things where they won me over. I 1798 01:50:58.760 --> 01:51:02.079 was like, I was like, I'm not a part of 1799 01:51:02.119 --> 01:51:06.920 this world. I'm not well versed, and you know, I 1800 01:51:07.039 --> 01:51:10.479 just I was just going to shows and then I 1801 01:51:10.520 --> 01:51:17.640 got to know them through their matches. But I think 1802 01:51:17.720 --> 01:51:22.239 ultimately what we're talking about is the difference between a 1803 01:51:22.279 --> 01:51:27.239 promoter and a booker, because they have a booker or 1804 01:51:27.279 --> 01:51:30.920 at least you know a group of them on aew 1805 01:51:31.239 --> 01:51:39.239 whereas WWE has a promoter. So, like Vince put it 1806 01:51:39.239 --> 01:51:43.880 this way, trivile h answers to Vince, no matter how 1807 01:51:43.960 --> 01:51:48.600 much freedom he may have with NXT, He's got to 1808 01:51:48.680 --> 01:51:52.680 do a WWE show, and Vince gives give Vince something 1809 01:51:52.680 --> 01:51:57.880 to promote, and that's what he does. Typically, his approach 1810 01:51:57.920 --> 01:52:00.960 would be building around one star, like a Stone Cold 1811 01:52:01.119 --> 01:52:04.319 or or a Hulk Hogan. That's what he learned from 1812 01:52:04.319 --> 01:52:10.960 his old man, built around Bruno. More so, now Vince 1813 01:52:10.960 --> 01:52:18.159 builds around the WWE is the star. He's getting a 1814 01:52:18.159 --> 01:52:21.840 little but but still there was the John Seen is 1815 01:52:21.880 --> 01:52:25.119 the top guy, Rome's the top guy, Drew's the top guy. 1816 01:52:27.199 --> 01:52:31.079 There's lack. There's less of a like who's the top 1817 01:52:31.119 --> 01:52:34.920 guy in ae W you know, it's it's there's not 1818 01:52:35.560 --> 01:52:37.319 you could say, well, it could be this guy, Well 1819 01:52:37.319 --> 01:52:39.079 it could be that guy. It's like, but there's not. 1820 01:52:39.239 --> 01:52:44.119 There's not one singular, which has its drawbacks too, because 1821 01:52:44.159 --> 01:52:48.199 if you build everything around one guy, it's like, well 1822 01:52:48.199 --> 01:52:52.640 what if that guy fucking leaves? You know that, you 1823 01:52:52.680 --> 01:52:58.800 know that's the bottom line. But with I don't know 1824 01:52:58.800 --> 01:53:02.479 that there's ever been a wrestling promotion that you know, 1825 01:53:02.760 --> 01:53:06.720 had a group of you know, vern ganias who are 1826 01:53:06.760 --> 01:53:10.199 running it because it's You've got Cody the Buck, Kenny 1827 01:53:10.319 --> 01:53:13.199 like that, those are the those are the bookers, and 1828 01:53:13.279 --> 01:53:15.600 you know I got Tony Kahan too. But it's like 1829 01:53:16.399 --> 01:53:19.640 it's there is and and they're they And the fact 1830 01:53:19.640 --> 01:53:23.159 that they're approaching it in a way of we're not 1831 01:53:23.960 --> 01:53:26.439 out of the gate, going to build everything around us. 1832 01:53:26.560 --> 01:53:28.960 I think you're right though that, But they are relying 1833 01:53:29.239 --> 01:53:37.680 on the rep that they've already built. But I can 1834 01:53:38.079 --> 01:53:42.680 speak from my own experience that I didn't I tuned. 1835 01:53:42.760 --> 01:53:50.640 I became a part of their fandom after other people 1836 01:53:50.720 --> 01:53:54.439 and granted when I came in in like a you know, 1837 01:53:55.800 --> 01:54:02.000 two thousand and twelve, twenty thirteen, it was like that's 1838 01:54:02.039 --> 01:54:07.920 when particularly those guys were building steam, and that's around 1839 01:54:07.960 --> 01:54:10.640 the time that you know, maybe a year or two 1840 01:54:10.640 --> 01:54:12.880 after that is when you know, Cody left and went 1841 01:54:12.920 --> 01:54:17.840 on his you know, journey into the desert. But it 1842 01:54:17.920 --> 01:54:22.319 was like, so I've been there from the beginning and 1843 01:54:22.359 --> 01:54:27.119 a little bit before the beginning. But there is also 1844 01:54:27.520 --> 01:54:31.199 just I don't know, they're just doing such a good 1845 01:54:31.319 --> 01:54:35.800 job building younger guys and newer guys or like like 1846 01:54:35.920 --> 01:54:39.680 even just like I don't know, it's just there is 1847 01:54:39.800 --> 01:54:42.840 something that I have more faith. 1848 01:54:43.520 --> 01:54:45.359 What I don't want is because they're EVPs. They like, 1849 01:54:45.399 --> 01:54:47.279 we don't want to be the guys who over push ourselves. 1850 01:54:47.600 --> 01:54:50.199 And if there's any tension or eye rolling about Cody 1851 01:54:50.640 --> 01:54:52.840 and how he carries himself and presents himself, you know, 1852 01:54:52.960 --> 01:54:56.000 talking about Randy Orton's Instagram, you know, only the best 1853 01:54:56.000 --> 01:55:00.399 food for my dog. You know, it's like Cody that 1854 01:55:00.479 --> 01:55:03.239 he projects himself as a big time star. And I'm 1855 01:55:03.279 --> 01:55:05.520 not saying that the Bucks should be that or Kenny 1856 01:55:05.560 --> 01:55:07.239 should be that. They should be you know, men of 1857 01:55:07.279 --> 01:55:11.439 the people, but there I would think you'd be frustrated 1858 01:55:11.600 --> 01:55:15.319 watching the Bucks in what you know that they can 1859 01:55:15.439 --> 01:55:18.560 be sort of shoulder struck their way through these these 1860 01:55:18.640 --> 01:55:22.119 early you know, months of AW just showing up and 1861 01:55:22.119 --> 01:55:26.479 throwing super kicks and not really having any kind of 1862 01:55:26.600 --> 01:55:29.880 I mean, if if the Bucks were hired and we're 1863 01:55:30.039 --> 01:55:32.520 and we're working for a promoter who you didn't think 1864 01:55:32.560 --> 01:55:35.000 believed in them, this is what they would have done 1865 01:55:35.000 --> 01:55:38.520 with them, and we're all sitting or going it's genius 1866 01:55:38.920 --> 01:55:40.159 or well, not all, but you know what I mean, Like 1867 01:55:40.159 --> 01:55:42.079 people are sitting here going, oh, it's it's part of 1868 01:55:42.079 --> 01:55:44.880 a long term plan, and it's because they don't want 1869 01:55:44.880 --> 01:55:46.840 to show that they have a big ego and oh 1870 01:55:46.960 --> 01:55:49.520 just wait. It's but to me, I'm like, I'm waiting 1871 01:55:49.560 --> 01:55:53.680 for AW to do something that takes some production effort 1872 01:55:53.800 --> 01:55:59.039 and some forethought that takes advantage of what the Bucks 1873 01:55:59.199 --> 01:56:02.840 can be and what Kenny can be, and I I'm 1874 01:56:02.880 --> 01:56:05.600 not I'm seeing a push that to me reflects a 1875 01:56:05.600 --> 01:56:07.840 booker who doesn't believe in them, which of course is 1876 01:56:07.960 --> 01:56:09.239 crazy because they're the bookers. 1877 01:56:10.920 --> 01:56:15.119 I mean, that's well, that's the X factor is because 1878 01:56:15.640 --> 01:56:19.680 it because it is them making that call, it lends 1879 01:56:19.720 --> 01:56:22.920 itself to well, there has to be a bigger plan 1880 01:56:23.079 --> 01:56:29.479 here or there is it's because it's it's it's clearly 1881 01:56:29.520 --> 01:56:33.520 the answer is not the person in charge doesn't have 1882 01:56:33.560 --> 01:56:38.520 faith in them, so then we're left with the other solutions. 1883 01:56:39.199 --> 01:56:42.399 So it's it's I think it only lends itself to 1884 01:56:42.439 --> 01:56:47.520 the idea that you know, there's a there's a method 1885 01:56:47.560 --> 01:56:50.880 to this, and I look, I'm like it has to 1886 01:56:50.920 --> 01:56:54.800 be that they are interested in building up, you know, 1887 01:56:55.600 --> 01:57:00.159 because look at it this way, going into a e 1888 01:57:00.359 --> 01:57:02.399 W when we didn't know what that was, when when 1889 01:57:02.439 --> 01:57:06.239 it was just a T shirt company, you know, it 1890 01:57:06.399 --> 01:57:08.760 was like, well, who the hell are their opponents going 1891 01:57:08.800 --> 01:57:10.439 to be? Are they just going to wrestle each other? 1892 01:57:11.039 --> 01:57:16.399 So now they're spending this time building those opponents, and 1893 01:57:16.479 --> 01:57:18.640 if they come in out of the gate, just well 1894 01:57:18.680 --> 01:57:23.680 we're beating everybody. And and you can make the argument 1895 01:57:23.720 --> 01:57:28.079 about like well what you know, people come bringing in 1896 01:57:28.119 --> 01:57:30.720 people just to lose to like Moss or or Cody 1897 01:57:30.800 --> 01:57:33.800 or whatever. It's just like, I don't know, it's there 1898 01:57:33.880 --> 01:57:36.319 is a certain to a certain extent, it's like, well 1899 01:57:38.560 --> 01:57:40.800 you have to stay I don't know if that's the balance, 1900 01:57:40.880 --> 01:57:45.159 that's that's the tightrope walk of booking wrestling, because it's like, 1901 01:57:45.479 --> 01:57:47.079 at the end of the day, somebody's gotta lose and 1902 01:57:47.119 --> 01:57:50.439 somebody's got to win, and you have to you know. 1903 01:57:51.000 --> 01:57:54.840 That's that's that's the art of it of like what's 1904 01:57:54.840 --> 01:57:57.520 gonna work, what's gonna help, what's gonna hurt, you know, 1905 01:57:58.079 --> 01:58:01.840 and then how do we move on from here? But 1906 01:58:01.880 --> 01:58:05.000 I do love it, but I think for me, I 1907 01:58:05.039 --> 01:58:07.720 think there is also the aspect of I've been watching 1908 01:58:07.880 --> 01:58:12.560 WWE for so long and only WWE for so long 1909 01:58:12.720 --> 01:58:18.159 that seeing somebody on TV doing a different way of 1910 01:58:19.359 --> 01:58:25.279 booking pro wrestling is taking some getting used to because 1911 01:58:25.600 --> 01:58:28.079 I can only see it through that WWE lens and 1912 01:58:28.079 --> 01:58:31.880 it's like, well, if this was Vince doing it, it 1913 01:58:31.920 --> 01:58:34.520 would mean this, whereas now there's new meeting. 1914 01:58:40.399 --> 01:58:43.399 Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn 1915 01:58:43.479 --> 01:58:47.359 some wrestling history, don't miss the nineties Past Cast. Every 1916 01:58:47.399 --> 01:58:50.760 Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed, Alex and 1917 01:58:50.800 --> 01:58:54.039 Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by 1918 01:58:54.159 --> 01:58:56.840 taking you through the Torch issue from that very week. 1919 01:58:57.439 --> 01:59:00.560 Follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the 1920 01:59:00.600 --> 01:59:03.800 happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as 1921 01:59:03.840 --> 01:59:07.279 The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties 1922 01:59:07.319 --> 01:59:10.680 pass cast every Friday or the PW Torch Daily cast feed. 1923 01:59:20.279 --> 01:59:22.199 I think the booking flosph with aw and that that 1924 01:59:22.279 --> 01:59:30.119 approach that's different than WWE is being under Uh. There's 1925 01:59:30.159 --> 01:59:32.840 more potential than they're getting out of it. And I 1926 01:59:32.880 --> 01:59:35.199 think I mean, like, I think if they had done 1927 01:59:35.239 --> 01:59:38.319 things better, they would be at a million viewers right 1928 01:59:38.359 --> 01:59:41.159 now on their live wed sight shows. Like I think 1929 01:59:41.159 --> 01:59:43.520 they're with the talent they have and with all the 1930 01:59:43.560 --> 01:59:46.039 things that you're talking about that are that are assets 1931 01:59:46.079 --> 01:59:49.079 that that differentiate them, I feel like they're sort of 1932 01:59:49.399 --> 01:59:55.560 riding coasting on that and instead of turbocharging it. And 1933 01:59:55.600 --> 01:59:59.079 that's so I'm not saying like refine it and plastic 1934 01:59:59.199 --> 02:00:02.159 eyes it and sports entertain it, but take what you 1935 02:00:02.319 --> 02:00:07.479 have and brand it and not branded in the extreme 1936 02:00:07.560 --> 02:00:10.479 rules horror show way or the pipe bomb throwing superstar, 1937 02:00:10.840 --> 02:00:13.600 but have something that you your fans can look at 1938 02:00:13.680 --> 02:00:16.720 and and identify as, Yeah, this is why I'm wearing 1939 02:00:16.720 --> 02:00:19.119 an a w T shirt when I go out. And 1940 02:00:19.359 --> 02:00:22.479 I think there's a what we do speaks for itself 1941 02:00:22.880 --> 02:00:26.399 is a pervasive attitude right now with too much of 1942 02:00:26.399 --> 02:00:29.720 that company, a complacency of we have arrived and now 1943 02:00:29.760 --> 02:00:33.039 we will unveil who we are and they will come. 1944 02:00:33.640 --> 02:00:37.840 And I don't see this sense of other than you know, 1945 02:00:37.840 --> 02:00:40.960 announcers telling us how great the Bucks and FTR are. 1946 02:00:42.359 --> 02:00:44.800 You know, I just I don't know. I just I 1947 02:00:44.840 --> 02:00:47.640 see more potential in what they're doing. And I see NXT, 1948 02:00:48.199 --> 02:00:50.239 you know, right there neck and neck with them, and 1949 02:00:50.680 --> 02:00:53.920 with all the you know, advantages and disadvantages NXT has 1950 02:00:54.960 --> 02:00:56.600 for the things that we already talked about, I just 1951 02:00:56.640 --> 02:00:59.199 feel like a W has the ability to pull ahead, 1952 02:00:59.520 --> 02:01:02.720 and they aren't doing the things that they could. And 1953 02:01:02.760 --> 02:01:05.520 part of that is maybe maybe in a year it 1954 02:01:05.560 --> 02:01:07.479 all plays out and we're like, okay, all those people 1955 02:01:07.479 --> 02:01:09.359 are saying, no, it's part of a long term master plan. 1956 02:01:09.399 --> 02:01:10.720 Maybe it'll all work out, you know. And I've been 1957 02:01:10.720 --> 02:01:13.279 hearing that since week one and week two, when people 1958 02:01:13.279 --> 02:01:15.079 were like, wait a second, Kenny Omegas part of the company, 1959 02:01:15.159 --> 02:01:17.239 John Boxley's part of this company. Why are we not 1960 02:01:17.399 --> 02:01:19.520 learning about them? You know? After three weeks it was like, 1961 02:01:19.640 --> 02:01:21.199 there's a lot of great things about this show, but 1962 02:01:21.399 --> 02:01:24.279 there's some warning signs too, And I don't know that 1963 02:01:24.319 --> 02:01:26.760 we're pat I don't know that they've there's been some 1964 02:01:26.800 --> 02:01:28.720 long term but obviously with Hangman Page, some of that 1965 02:01:28.760 --> 02:01:31.960 stuff got derailed because of the pandemic and not drop 1966 02:01:32.119 --> 02:01:34.039 not flying everyone into Florida and stuff. So I give 1967 02:01:34.079 --> 02:01:35.920 them slack on that on that front. But I just 1968 02:01:35.960 --> 02:01:37.560 want to see him turn it up, you know. I 1969 02:01:37.560 --> 02:01:38.960 want to see more Evo Grise. I want to see 1970 02:01:38.960 --> 02:01:40.800 about his azz. I want to see I want them 1971 02:01:40.840 --> 02:01:44.279 to take some of the time producing self indulgent goofball 1972 02:01:44.319 --> 02:01:46.720 YouTube videos that just look like amateur ur or for 1973 02:01:46.800 --> 02:01:48.279 guys who are out of work and trying to have fun. 1974 02:01:48.640 --> 02:01:50.800 Take that time and energy and make dynam I don't 1975 02:01:50.800 --> 02:01:53.039 we're a polished product. 1976 02:01:53.920 --> 02:01:55.600 Now. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I 1977 02:01:55.640 --> 02:01:58.880 mean again, but it is it's like we were how 1978 02:01:58.880 --> 02:02:01.920 many weeks away from you know, the War Games match, 1979 02:02:02.159 --> 02:02:08.079 and then everything, you know, It's like reminded me of 1980 02:02:09.359 --> 02:02:12.520 of you know, everything got unplugged, like when there's a 1981 02:02:13.479 --> 02:02:16.399 lightning store my mother running around the house, I'm plugging everything. 1982 02:02:17.600 --> 02:02:22.319 That's what happened to everyone's stort. I know. Yeah, But 1983 02:02:25.680 --> 02:02:28.079 like I did make this point not too long ago 1984 02:02:28.079 --> 02:02:32.439 and we watched wrestling. It's like, with Cody, you've got 1985 02:02:32.479 --> 02:02:34.880 somebody who like it. I'm like, because we were talking 1986 02:02:34.880 --> 02:02:39.159 about like the open invitation and you know, he's booking 1987 02:02:39.239 --> 02:02:42.920 himself to be over and maybe like taking himself out 1988 02:02:42.960 --> 02:02:46.640 of the main event the heavy White title thing. Was 1989 02:02:46.680 --> 02:02:51.199 that virtuous or was it virtue signaling or who knows what? 1990 02:02:51.319 --> 02:02:55.199 And now he's you know, just killing everybody. I'm like, well, 1991 02:02:55.399 --> 02:02:58.680 you know, he learned how to book wrestling from Dusty 1992 02:02:58.760 --> 02:03:01.880 Rhodes and so this is a very dusty way to 1993 02:03:01.880 --> 02:03:07.119 book himself. But it's but it's still it's so But 1994 02:03:07.520 --> 02:03:10.319 that all said, I still love it and I'm still 1995 02:03:10.359 --> 02:03:14.840 such a huge fan of Cody because the promo work 1996 02:03:14.920 --> 02:03:19.800 is phenomenal, the in ring work is phenomenal, and there 1997 02:03:20.439 --> 02:03:25.279 it's again I feel like it's going somewhere. I don't 1998 02:03:25.279 --> 02:03:30.960 know what yet, but it's it's very interesting and still 1999 02:03:31.119 --> 02:03:35.000 just even just the in and of itself, like the 2000 02:03:35.039 --> 02:03:38.920 press conference with the you know, the picture at the 2001 02:03:39.000 --> 02:03:41.920 end with him and Swagger, him and Hagar where it's 2002 02:03:41.920 --> 02:03:46.079 just like it's just like literally that night on NXC 2003 02:03:46.199 --> 02:03:48.279 they were doing a contract siding and it's just like 2004 02:03:49.039 --> 02:03:53.159 that is the most boring played out. Why are we 2005 02:03:53.399 --> 02:03:56.560 like nobody does that? Like they don't they don't sign 2006 02:03:56.600 --> 02:03:59.520 the contract for the Super Bowl on the field and 2007 02:03:59.600 --> 02:04:02.199 then all and the game breaks out every single time. 2008 02:04:02.439 --> 02:04:05.880 It's like, but I love the way that the press 2009 02:04:05.880 --> 02:04:09.560 conference was presented. I'm like, this actually feels real. This 2010 02:04:09.640 --> 02:04:12.239 feels like and because that's one of my favorite things 2011 02:04:12.239 --> 02:04:16.039 with New Japan is that their promos. Once in a while, 2012 02:04:16.079 --> 02:04:18.199 you get somebody after a match grab the mic and 2013 02:04:18.239 --> 02:04:21.640 okada like Evil the other night, that type of thing, 2014 02:04:21.960 --> 02:04:25.479 cut a promo, but it's usually after their match. They 2015 02:04:25.520 --> 02:04:27.560 come in and it's a press conference. They've got a 2016 02:04:27.920 --> 02:04:31.920 backdrop or even better, stitting at a table full of microphones. 2017 02:04:32.479 --> 02:04:35.800 I love that. That feels legit to me, you know. 2018 02:04:36.000 --> 02:04:39.319 So there are those things where it's like, look, I 2019 02:04:39.319 --> 02:04:42.439 don't know where some of the planning storytelling is going. 2020 02:04:43.239 --> 02:04:45.760 It feels like eventually we're going to get that huge 2021 02:04:45.840 --> 02:04:49.279 hangman turn. Who knows what that means for who he's 2022 02:04:49.279 --> 02:04:52.960 gonna align himself with. Eventually? Is Arn't gonna turn on Cody? 2023 02:04:53.479 --> 02:04:55.760 You know? Is he gonna pair back up with Tully? 2024 02:04:55.920 --> 02:04:58.760 Like I don't know. There's so many. I just I'm 2025 02:04:58.800 --> 02:05:01.960 excited because it feels like they're placing pieces on the 2026 02:05:02.159 --> 02:05:06.680 game board and then suddenly something's gonna hit and there's 2027 02:05:06.720 --> 02:05:09.319 going to be some to do. I don't know what 2028 02:05:09.319 --> 02:05:11.319 it is, but I'm excited to be a part of it, 2029 02:05:11.359 --> 02:05:14.239 and I can't wait for it to happen. But the 2030 02:05:14.359 --> 02:05:18.840 small thing like the having you know, like the press 2031 02:05:18.880 --> 02:05:22.399 conference instead of a contract signing, I love that having 2032 02:05:23.000 --> 02:05:26.760 people come out and cut an entering promo and they 2033 02:05:26.840 --> 02:05:30.600 don't get attacked, they don't get interrupted. It's just a 2034 02:05:30.640 --> 02:05:33.520 promo with a beginning, a middle, and an end and 2035 02:05:33.560 --> 02:05:35.159 then we move on to the next segment. 2036 02:05:34.880 --> 02:05:37.439 Which ironically was a problem early because AW had a 2037 02:05:37.479 --> 02:05:40.079 streak of like thirteen or sixteen promos in a row 2038 02:05:40.079 --> 02:05:42.880 that were interrupted and then they like got criticized for it. 2039 02:05:42.880 --> 02:05:48.319 And there's less of that now, you know. So yeah, yeah, yeah, no, 2040 02:05:48.800 --> 02:05:51.840 I'm Wednesday. It's our blast. I mean, it is an 2041 02:05:51.880 --> 02:05:54.199 embarrassment of riches in a lot of ways. And I 2042 02:05:54.199 --> 02:05:56.319 don't think either as much as you know, I kind 2043 02:05:56.319 --> 02:05:59.039 of go week by week there Sometimes it depends on 2044 02:05:59.039 --> 02:06:02.520 my mood. But you know, sometimes I like NXT a notch, 2045 02:06:02.520 --> 02:06:04.720 your too better. Sometimes AW a not youre too better. 2046 02:06:04.760 --> 02:06:06.560 Sometimes one frustrates me a little more than the other. 2047 02:06:06.600 --> 02:06:08.600 I think a w is a little more erratic and 2048 02:06:08.760 --> 02:06:12.760 NXT a little more, a little more polished and knows 2049 02:06:12.800 --> 02:06:15.079 what it is. Uh, And that can be good or bad, 2050 02:06:15.199 --> 02:06:18.239 you know, depending on uh you know, the week and 2051 02:06:18.319 --> 02:06:20.880 the and the matches and the show in the particular 2052 02:06:20.920 --> 02:06:23.800 week show. But AW still has a lot of room 2053 02:06:23.800 --> 02:06:24.720 to change them. 2054 02:06:24.800 --> 02:06:27.680 No, that's it. I mean when you're doing when NXT 2055 02:06:27.880 --> 02:06:31.439 is doing a WWE show, there is the flip side 2056 02:06:31.439 --> 02:06:34.680 of that where it's like they know what their voice is, 2057 02:06:35.359 --> 02:06:37.760 you know, whereas AW might still be trying to figure 2058 02:06:37.800 --> 02:06:39.279 out who they who they are. 2059 02:06:39.520 --> 02:06:41.960 And that's fun to watch. And yeah, there's a grit, 2060 02:06:42.560 --> 02:06:44.520 more of a grit and less of a sports entertainment 2061 02:06:44.520 --> 02:06:47.119 corporate polish to it, and and and that that is 2062 02:06:47.439 --> 02:06:50.960 an asset. But I do I think there's a few 2063 02:06:50.960 --> 02:06:53.880 pieces that are resting on their laurels or or not 2064 02:06:54.039 --> 02:06:55.960 aware that there's an extra million people out there who 2065 02:06:55.960 --> 02:06:57.760 they could win over if they if they seem like 2066 02:06:57.800 --> 02:07:03.359 they care enough to try. But anyways, and we quick 2067 02:07:03.640 --> 02:07:23.199 yeah invite you to email the show with feedback or 2068 02:07:23.279 --> 02:07:26.720 questions or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast 2069 02:07:26.880 --> 02:07:30.920 at petwtorch dot com. That's Wade Keller Podcast at PW 2070 02:07:30.960 --> 02:07:33.840 torch dot com. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. Even 2071 02:07:33.880 --> 02:07:36.960 follow us on Twitter at pw torch and follow me 2072 02:07:37.159 --> 02:07:40.800 at the Wade Keller. That's at PW torch and at 2073 02:07:40.960 --> 02:07:41.800 the Wade Keller. 2074 02:07:43.800 --> 02:07:46.800 Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me 2075 02:07:46.920 --> 02:07:50.479 Jason Powell host them the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast. 2076 02:07:50.880 --> 02:07:53.199 Each week, you'll hear the latest news and analysis from 2077 02:07:53.199 --> 02:07:55.279 me and my team at Pro Wrestling dot and along 2078 02:07:55.319 --> 02:07:58.279 with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling 2079 02:07:58.279 --> 02:08:01.640 Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in 2080 02:08:01.640 --> 02:08:05.560 the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and Itunestitcher, Downcast, and all 2081 02:08:05.600 --> 02:08:09.119 your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at PW 2082 02:08:09.159 --> 02:08:14.520 boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom dot com. 2083 02:08:14.720 --> 02:08:16.680 Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know we 2084 02:08:16.680 --> 02:08:21.239 also have a website pwtorch dot com. Daily news updates, editorials, 2085 02:08:21.600 --> 02:08:24.640 and my live TV coverage covering Raw, Dynamite and SmackDown 2086 02:08:24.880 --> 02:08:28.880 and my live pay per view coverage for WWE and AEW. 2087 02:08:29.119 --> 02:08:31.199 Create a tab or bookmark. Make it a daily stop. 2088 02:08:31.319 --> 02:08:33.520 Visit us throughout the day every day to keep up 2089 02:08:33.520 --> 02:08:38.079 on breaking news and more. That's pw torch dot com. 2090 02:08:38.560 --> 02:08:41.720 Meet an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts. 2091 02:08:41.880 --> 02:08:45.039 Will come join me Alan fourrel Over in the Progress 2092 02:08:45.039 --> 02:08:48.640 Paradise at pterrew Torch VIP as we mask on the 2093 02:08:48.680 --> 02:08:51.319 bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the 2094 02:08:51.359 --> 02:08:55.800 great matches and shows from around the world, be it US, Japan, 2095 02:08:56.159 --> 02:08:59.680 Europe or Mexico. 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