WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:02.480 Hello, everyone, Welcome to the nonprofits. 2 00:00:02.600 --> 00:00:05.000 Our first story comes from our friend Heven Meta at 3 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:08.119 the Friendly Atheists, where Oklahoma Christian doctors. 4 00:00:07.719 --> 00:00:09.519 Will be allowed to deny healthcare. 5 00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:15.320 ELI has a story, presumably for the purpose of demonstrating 6 00:00:15.359 --> 00:00:20.320 that they don't actually understand basically anything. Oklahoma Republicans have 7 00:00:20.440 --> 00:00:24.640 introduced House Bill twelve twenty four, sponsored by state Representative 8 00:00:24.719 --> 00:00:28.199 Kevin West. The bill, if approved, would allow any medical 9 00:00:28.239 --> 00:00:31.960 professional to refuse to perform any procedure for any patient 10 00:00:32.079 --> 00:00:36.560 under any circumstances, if performing that procedure violates that medical 11 00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:41.159 professionals This is a quote ethical, moral, or religious beliefs 12 00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:45.000 and principles, and this, of course is only Oklahoma's most 13 00:00:45.079 --> 00:00:47.840 recent attack on the well being of its citizens, but 14 00:00:47.920 --> 00:00:50.039 it does promise to be the most effective, since it 15 00:00:50.079 --> 00:00:54.439 provides a direct mechanism for removing somebody else's autonomy and 16 00:00:54.719 --> 00:00:57.960 literally placing them directly in harm's way, all in the 17 00:00:58.039 --> 00:01:01.240 name of religious freedoms. If you ask me, public servants 18 00:01:01.280 --> 00:01:03.520 serve the whole public, and if you're not willing to 19 00:01:03.719 --> 00:01:07.000 perform medical procedures, you shouldn't be a medical professional. This 20 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:10.200 story is by him and Meta from their Friendly Atheist 21 00:01:10.239 --> 00:01:11.799 on March fifth, twenty twenty five. 22 00:01:12.439 --> 00:01:14.959 Okay, so I'm going to remain this to Tracy first. 23 00:01:16.040 --> 00:01:17.480 I'm good, this is for the whole pianem. I'm going 24 00:01:17.519 --> 00:01:20.200 to ask Tracy, why do you think like these gop 25 00:01:20.480 --> 00:01:22.719 Lawmarckers have such a hard on. 26 00:01:24.359 --> 00:01:27.079 For dismantling sexual health care for people? 27 00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:33.400 So I can only trace it back to a I 28 00:01:33.480 --> 00:01:36.640 want the world to exist only in the way I 29 00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:39.359 want it to exist. I want things to exist for 30 00:01:39.480 --> 00:01:43.280 my comfort and for my happiness, and not for the 31 00:01:43.359 --> 00:01:47.120 happiness and comfort and well being of the society as 32 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:49.560 a whole. It comes from a place of entitlement and 33 00:01:49.599 --> 00:01:53.920 wealth and wealth privilege. These people have been so used 34 00:01:53.959 --> 00:01:56.519 to getting everything they want out of life, to getting 35 00:01:56.879 --> 00:02:00.120 you know, to getting their way for lack of a 36 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:02.920 better term, that now they want to impose their way 37 00:02:02.959 --> 00:02:05.560 on other people. They want to do what they want. 38 00:02:05.560 --> 00:02:07.640 They don't want to do anything else. If you take 39 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:10.520 a job, you are to do the things that are 40 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:13.159 outlined in that job. I'm sorry if i'm a If 41 00:02:13.199 --> 00:02:16.199 i'm a if my religious beliefs don't want me to 42 00:02:16.319 --> 00:02:17.879 be touching a pig, I'm not going to get a 43 00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:21.400 job at an ABATOI where one needs to slaughter pigs. 44 00:02:21.639 --> 00:02:25.919 If my religious beliefs have certain precepts against mixed fabrics, 45 00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:29.199 I'm not gonna go work on a cotton poly blend line. 46 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:31.680 You have to take a certain amount of accountability for 47 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:34.280 yourself and what you are willing to do, not shove 48 00:02:34.319 --> 00:02:35.919 that responsibility on other people. 49 00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:38.879 No, I think that's perfect. Player. 50 00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:41.719 Do you think it's like a lack of empathy or 51 00:02:41.759 --> 00:02:44.039 do you think it's just completely like this is just 52 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:45.879 like a religious conviction kind of thing. 53 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:48.039 I don't think it's either. 54 00:02:48.199 --> 00:02:51.479 I think they're just babies and they want to have 55 00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:54.199 things their way, and they want to not only have 56 00:02:54.319 --> 00:02:56.360 the job that they want, but they want to do 57 00:02:56.400 --> 00:02:59.479 specifically what they want to do at that job. 58 00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:00.960 That's not up to you to decide. 59 00:03:01.120 --> 00:03:06.039 Kelly a lot here, Yeah, I was thinking that's exactly why. 60 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:09.680 You know, this thing doesn't only allow for religious objections, 61 00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:12.759 but for ethical and moral ones as well, So that 62 00:03:12.840 --> 00:03:16.280 opens up a broad array of things that they could 63 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:20.879 just could not give you care for. You know, you 64 00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:23.280 know me, I'm going to take this idea to the absurd. 65 00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:27.000 What if the doctor is a racial purist, I mean, 66 00:03:27.039 --> 00:03:29.879 then they could argue then that seeing anyone that wasn't 67 00:03:29.960 --> 00:03:33.599 blonde haired and blue eyed was against their ethics and morals, 68 00:03:33.639 --> 00:03:37.199 their personal you know, they're personal ones. I I as 69 00:03:37.240 --> 00:03:40.159 I mentioned before the show, I'm only five to five. Now, 70 00:03:40.280 --> 00:03:43.039 if I was a doctor in Oklahoma, I could argue 71 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:46.879 that my ethical and moral standards did not allow me 72 00:03:47.080 --> 00:03:51.960 to work on people over say five nine. You know, sure, 73 00:03:52.280 --> 00:03:54.680 I can sew that hernia up for you, but you 74 00:03:54.719 --> 00:03:56.840 have to let me take three inches off of each 75 00:03:56.879 --> 00:03:58.840 of your shins. And here's some good news for you. 76 00:03:59.120 --> 00:04:02.840 I'm only going to charge you have for the shin surgery. So, 77 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:07.599 I mean, you know, it seems totally fricking ridiculous to me. 78 00:04:07.759 --> 00:04:10.560 I don't know, but I think I think you're right, Tracy, 79 00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:13.960 that this is not about what this is about making 80 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:16.959 things so that only a certain group of people are 81 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:19.720 going to be taken care of. Let's face it. 82 00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:22.600 So, so Eli, sine question to you, like, why do 83 00:04:22.639 --> 00:04:26.000 you think that you know they want to just you know, 84 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:28.399 be able to like pick and choose who gets healthcare, 85 00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:32.839 you know, these especially these Christian doctors. 86 00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:37.759 So and it's I think it's not a secret that 87 00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:39.399 there's a lot of people that want to see a 88 00:04:39.439 --> 00:04:42.199 theocracy in the United States. They may not realize that 89 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:45.720 what they want is a theocracy, but they they don't 90 00:04:45.879 --> 00:04:50.839 recognize the the separation of Christianity and state because Christianity 91 00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:53.439 isn't a religion, it's a relationship with Christ. And also 92 00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:56.199 Christianity is true, so it's not like these other religions. 93 00:04:56.199 --> 00:04:58.279 This is the one that needs to be in the government. 94 00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:01.240 So we need to pret Christians and make sure that 95 00:05:01.319 --> 00:05:03.639 Christians don't have to do non Christian things and this, 96 00:05:03.759 --> 00:05:07.279 and that they believe that they are doing something that 97 00:05:07.399 --> 00:05:10.759 is good for everybody's eternal soul. Because if we prevent 98 00:05:10.839 --> 00:05:13.560 people from being wrong, which is what they think being 99 00:05:13.639 --> 00:05:16.680 trands is or whatever other I think this is a 100 00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:20.759 way to target you know, you know, trans of gender 101 00:05:20.759 --> 00:05:24.600 affirming care specifically, I think too, but an abortion and 102 00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:26.560 like any any of these other things that that like 103 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:30.439 conservatives love to you know, uh, the hills that conservatives 104 00:05:30.439 --> 00:05:33.079 love to die on when it comes to healthcare. This 105 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:36.519 is just a way to be like, Okay, well, if 106 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:38.560 you're not going to make it illegal, then we're going 107 00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:41.279 to make it legal to not have to do it. 108 00:05:41.439 --> 00:05:44.000 And it literally is just like I said, it's turning 109 00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:48.040 healthcare and well being into a privilege in Oklahoma for 110 00:05:48.120 --> 00:05:51.720 and it's and it's appropriage for people who believe the 111 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:53.959 same thing is as as their doctor, or who want 112 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:56.920 care that their doctor believes in. And it's just not 113 00:05:56.959 --> 00:05:59.240 like we see this problem in like in Catholic hospitals 114 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:01.480 already all the time. So it's just not the way 115 00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:02.920 to care for the public. 116 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:04.839 So I saw that, And. 117 00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:06.560 You know, so you mentioned that there's supposed to be 118 00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:08.480 an exclusion for emergency care. 119 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:11.800 Do you want to expand a little bit more on that, So. 120 00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:14.519 Yeah, it does say and I didn't read the bill, 121 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:16.360 but in the article it mentions there is supposed to 122 00:06:16.399 --> 00:06:19.680 be this does exclude emergency care. But since that's not 123 00:06:19.839 --> 00:06:24.040 rigidly defined in the bill itself or like elsewhere, as 124 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:27.319 far as I'm aware, like there are definitions for like 125 00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:29.879 what qualifies as a medical emergency, but I don't think 126 00:06:29.879 --> 00:06:33.600 that that necessarily includes what is emergency care unless you 127 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:37.639 just tie it to like anything associated with this, you know, emergency. 128 00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:41.199 But that's when you understand medicine that can involve so 129 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:43.560 many different things that it's really hard to pin down 130 00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:47.519 what is considered emergency care and what's not so they 131 00:06:47.759 --> 00:06:52.160 they most definitions include some variation of the words like 132 00:06:52.199 --> 00:06:56.040 if there's a reasonable expectation of severe injury or death 133 00:06:56.199 --> 00:07:00.480 in the absence of care, but reasonable expectation and leaves 134 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:03.720 room for interpretation and therefore problems No, And. 135 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:05.959 I agree, And I think a lot of problem with 136 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:08.879 this too is that it's like, as Kelly pointed out, 137 00:07:08.879 --> 00:07:10.680 this is going to leave a lot of wiggle room, like, 138 00:07:10.759 --> 00:07:14.680 you know, like what if you know, someone like I 139 00:07:14.720 --> 00:07:17.160 don't want to treat you know, people over a certain race, 140 00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:19.959 or if I even if you're like a you know, 141 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:23.160 let's just say a gay person. You know, you're coming 142 00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:26.720 in for a symbol medical procedure, you know, they can 143 00:07:26.759 --> 00:07:29.160 deny your because like I don't do gay people icky, 144 00:07:29.240 --> 00:07:31.399 and they don't want to treat, you know, be around 145 00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:36.879 people that are gay. That's a real possibility because people 146 00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:40.920 are prejudiced and terrible and that. And I think, and 147 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:42.360 I'm going to pose this to you guys, like, do 148 00:07:42.399 --> 00:07:46.639 you think this violates a hippocratic oh, hippocratic oath? You know, 149 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:49.639 they make a value to you no harm. Does this 150 00:07:49.800 --> 00:07:50.439 violate that? 151 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:50.959 Tracy? 152 00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:52.040 Well, I don't. 153 00:07:52.240 --> 00:07:55.639 I haven't read the hippocratic oath, not overly familiar with it. 154 00:07:55.720 --> 00:07:56.639 But what I will. 155 00:07:56.439 --> 00:08:00.160 Definitely tell you is that it definitely has the potent. 156 00:08:00.519 --> 00:08:02.920 It definitely has the potential to get there. Because if 157 00:08:02.920 --> 00:08:05.240 I could just piggyback off of what Kelly was saying earlier, 158 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:08.079 what's to stop somebody from just getting a job, or 159 00:08:08.120 --> 00:08:10.600 an incumbent doctor, I don't know if that's the right term, 160 00:08:10.639 --> 00:08:12.879 but a doctor who currently has a job, what's to 161 00:08:12.920 --> 00:08:15.639 stop that doctor from just saying, yeah, I'm not going 162 00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:19.680 to do that. And then the question being why, because 163 00:08:19.720 --> 00:08:23.079 of ethical and moral reasons, why won't you remove this 164 00:08:23.240 --> 00:08:24.680 splinter from this child? 165 00:08:24.759 --> 00:08:26.120 For ethical and moral reason? 166 00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:26.480 I don't. 167 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:30.199 That's too personal a question. I have my reasons. It's faith. 168 00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:31.040 It's faith. 169 00:08:31.160 --> 00:08:33.759 For a reason of faith, I'm not going to help 170 00:08:33.879 --> 00:08:36.919 this child. I'm not going to do whatever surgery. It 171 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:41.120 definitely holds the potential. And I think that we're if 172 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:43.360 I could steal from Eli, I'm just stealing from everybody. 173 00:08:43.879 --> 00:08:45.840 If I could steal a phrase I've heard Eli say 174 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:49.360 a time or two, we're potentiating harm that otherwise would 175 00:08:49.399 --> 00:08:50.480 not be potentiate. 176 00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:52.279 And that's just a problem. 177 00:08:53.240 --> 00:08:55.679 I don't know. I can't really elaborate anymore on it. 178 00:08:56.480 --> 00:09:01.840 No, it's a lot. This whole article was a lot. 179 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:04.799 And one other thing that kind of struck me about 180 00:09:04.799 --> 00:09:08.720 this was, we know, like on the opposite and there 181 00:09:08.759 --> 00:09:12.360 have been court cases where parents had or you know, 182 00:09:12.440 --> 00:09:16.399 brought their child in you know, and they their child 183 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:20.200 need a certain medical procedures, like for like, you know, 184 00:09:20.519 --> 00:09:23.639 blood transfusions for Jeovah's witnesses. Let's just use as for 185 00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:26.080 an example. And things have gone to core where doctors 186 00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:28.960 are bringing going to court and saying like, hey, if 187 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:32.000 we don't do this procedure, this child is going to die. 188 00:09:32.399 --> 00:09:36.240 Now we're dealing with a situation where doctors, let's say 189 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:38.120 you're Jehovah's witness doctor, I'm just going to put this 190 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:38.519 out here. 191 00:09:38.679 --> 00:09:39.840 Does that mean you get to. 192 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:43.559 Deny blood transfusions to children that might need them because 193 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:46.600 it goes against your religious convictions? I'm like, Kelly, does 194 00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:49.879 it open that sort of you know door for those 195 00:09:49.879 --> 00:09:50.799 certain things to happen? 196 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:54.279 No, you just brought up a question in my mind 197 00:09:54.279 --> 00:09:55.879 that I would love it. And can you be a 198 00:09:55.919 --> 00:10:00.399 doctor and be a JW I don't know, I don't 199 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:03.519 even known, but. 200 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:07.679 An interesting concept crazy world that we love in because 201 00:10:08.080 --> 00:10:10.080 every day is Obo saved that fucking. 202 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:16.720 Day here now right, That just totally stopped my whole 203 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:22.960 brain from thinking about it as a result, you please 204 00:10:23.600 --> 00:10:24.639 that question that on. 205 00:10:27.039 --> 00:10:31.240 So let's say you're Joho's when the doctor and and uh, 206 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:34.679 a person needs a blood transf you shouldn't say their life. 207 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:38.759 Your Bible is teaches your particular scripture teaches you that 208 00:10:38.840 --> 00:10:42.840 you cannot mix blood. King is that you. 209 00:10:42.799 --> 00:10:45.480 Canne b let that person die? 210 00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:46.639 Yeah? Sure? Why not? 211 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:49.519 That? See? This is the problem with this law is 212 00:10:49.519 --> 00:10:53.840 that well, actually, because it makes an exception for emergency 213 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:57.360 that you would have to give the blood transfusion at 214 00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:00.480 least until the person was stabilized. And I think that's 215 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:04.240 what emergency procedures would be defined as, until the person 216 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:08.679 becomes stabilized. That's like, they can't deny you in an 217 00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:12.600 emergency room until you are stabilized. Then they can kick 218 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:15.320 you out. So I think that's the main I think 219 00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:18.559 that's the point right there. So probably not they couldn't 220 00:11:18.559 --> 00:11:21.600 deny you the blood transfusion if it was an emergency, 221 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:25.360 but they could surgery. They could. Yeah, well I'm about 222 00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:27.759 to say they could deny uh, they could deny other 223 00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:30.799 procedures though when it was an emergency. And this is 224 00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:35.159 the problem. This law is way overly broad. I don't think, 225 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:37.559 you know, they keep putting these bills in like this, 226 00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:40.159 and I don't think this one, like many of them, 227 00:11:40.200 --> 00:11:42.360 when they get into the courts just don't hold up. 228 00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:44.799 The courts are striking them down, and we can at 229 00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:48.559 least be thankful of that that the US Constitution is 230 00:11:48.679 --> 00:11:52.200 still on our side with these things. So I'm a 231 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:54.919 little worried about the way the courts have been changing 232 00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:58.240 over the last few years, especially the federal courts, and 233 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:02.120 how they the people who have different ideologies than mine 234 00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:05.240 have been being appointed to positions on the on the benches. 235 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:07.360 So I'm a little worried about that. But I think 236 00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:10.200 even still, I mean, we've got Scotus that made some 237 00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:13.360 rulings that were against some of the ideals of our 238 00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:17.480 current administration already, so I think we're the courts will 239 00:12:17.480 --> 00:12:20.960 probably be on our side with most of this stuff. Fortunately. 240 00:12:21.799 --> 00:12:24.840 So Ela, you mentioned that you've had some experience in 241 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:29.159 the medical field. Was your kind of feeling about this, 242 00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:31.600 you know, from the stuff you've seen and what you 243 00:12:31.639 --> 00:12:33.000 think is coming down the pipeline. 244 00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:37.000 So I and just for like clarity, I spent a 245 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:39.879 brief amount of time as a as an EMT or 246 00:12:39.919 --> 00:12:41.759 an ambulance just to not like I don't want to 247 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:47.159 like idal over sell, but I don't have that that 248 00:12:47.240 --> 00:12:50.080 certification anymore, just to be totally clear. But the I 249 00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:54.200 actually I'm not sure that I agree with Kelly's conclusion 250 00:12:54.639 --> 00:12:57.279 because I think that when when you get to the 251 00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:00.320 level of being a doctor, right, there's always there's always 252 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:03.320 protocols in hospitals, in emergency rooms, there's like there's a 253 00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:06.200 medical director that says, like, okay, in these circumstances, and 254 00:13:06.440 --> 00:13:09.039 they're they're pretty exhaustive, and it goes like, these are 255 00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:12.639 the emergencies that we are equipped to handle, and this 256 00:13:12.679 --> 00:13:14.559 is what we're going to do in those circumstances. These 257 00:13:14.559 --> 00:13:16.639 are the drugs we're going to give, These are this 258 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:18.639 is the order in which we're going to like we're 259 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:21.320 going to do this IVY location first, and if we 260 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:23.080 can't get that one, we're going to try this one. 261 00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:26.440 And like that specifically is how this goes. When you 262 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:29.639 get to the level of being a doctor, you are 263 00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:33.240 expected to like you have to justify the decisions that 264 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:37.039 you're making. But if you don't follow that protocol, but 265 00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:40.519 you can justify not following that protocol, like that's not 266 00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:43.279 a bad thing, right, So in the event of like 267 00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:45.600 we have to give a blood transfusion or this person 268 00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:49.399 you know will uh will die, if you can justify 269 00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:51.879 saying like, well, there's a chance that if we give 270 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:55.720 this you know, antibiotic regimen this aggressively, then that could 271 00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:58.320 counteract the infection and then we wouldn't need the blood 272 00:13:58.360 --> 00:14:00.919 transfusion and we could just do the anibi a regimen. 273 00:14:01.480 --> 00:14:03.679 And or if there's some way that you can justify, 274 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:08.159 like there's the medical potential for making for benefiting the 275 00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:12.639 patient otherwise, and if you can you can justify like 276 00:14:12.799 --> 00:14:16.720 a greater benefit than the benefit of doing the transfusion, 277 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:20.360 they can then make another choice and just justify that 278 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:23.320 to their medical director as long as and that is 279 00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:26.360 kind of up to interpretation, like if that's justifiable or not. 280 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:29.919 So I think that I think there are enough good 281 00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:35.240 doctors that will still provide the care to their patients 282 00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:38.360 that is both appropriate based on their professional medical opinion 283 00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:40.879 and in line with the patient's wishes. I think there 284 00:14:40.919 --> 00:14:43.120 are good doctors that will do that but I think 285 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:46.279 that there are also people that have had experiences where 286 00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:51.080 they have wanted, you know, they didn't agree with their 287 00:14:51.080 --> 00:14:54.159 doctor on what their care plan should be, and they 288 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:57.840 were sort of like just bulldozed by the doctor because 289 00:14:57.840 --> 00:15:01.600 they have the education, the experience, and and of the 290 00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:04.000 certification to say like, no, I know better, I know 291 00:15:04.039 --> 00:15:06.600 what I'm talking about and this wouldn't be right for you. 292 00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:08.639 And this, I think just opens the door for more 293 00:15:08.679 --> 00:15:09.679 situations like that. 294 00:15:10.039 --> 00:15:13.159 Well, you may have a good point about that, because 295 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:16.840 we know that, you know, doctors arek is considered a 296 00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:22.519 position of authority and though where people will automatically default 297 00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:26.320 to their doctor's opinion rather than even if it goes 298 00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:28.960 against their own health, like you know, they have a problem. 299 00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:30.840 But if a doctor, like, you know, you're feeling. 300 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:34.080 Chronic symptoms, doctor says, you know, oh it's this or that, 301 00:15:34.759 --> 00:15:37.039 and they kind of just like, okay, well the doctor 302 00:15:37.039 --> 00:15:39.639 doesn't think it's that serious, and then it progresses they 303 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:41.559 go back doctor says like. 304 00:15:41.559 --> 00:15:43.799 Oh, you know, well maybe you should get a second opinion. 305 00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:46.320 But I think it's this there there could be misagnoses, 306 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:50.360 there's misconceptions with we've seen it's still now people having 307 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:54.480 misconcepsions about women people of color, you know about you 308 00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:56.679 know what their bodies can handle and not handle, and 309 00:15:56.679 --> 00:16:00.320 so on and so forth. So this adds another to 310 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:02.759 that as well. So my question is, and I'm going 311 00:16:02.759 --> 00:16:04.960 to bring this back to Tracy, where does the line 312 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:09.720 between your personal connections and beliefs and and the responsibility 313 00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:13.840 to others begin? And should you be compelled to do 314 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:17.320 something against your own morals even if it seems cruel 315 00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:20.799 to others? You know, I'm just asking this. You know, 316 00:16:20.919 --> 00:16:24.759 as you know something, you know people's rules. 317 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:27.759 So I want to hear your opinion on this, Tracy. 318 00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:30.960 Well, this is what I'm going to say in Okay, 319 00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:36.240 you're for a doctor, for a physician specifically, Uh, that 320 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:38.799 doesn't factor as near as I can tell. When you're 321 00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:41.080 a doctor, when you're a medical professional, you are a 322 00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:43.840 public servant. You are there to serve and do your 323 00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:46.080 trade as it has been lined out and as you 324 00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:50.000 are called to do so. If you don't want, if 325 00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:52.879 you have a moral issue with performing a d and 326 00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:58.120 E or any other or prescribing medication to a trans 327 00:16:58.200 --> 00:17:00.600 youth or something about that, you can still be a 328 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:03.080 physician and just put yourself in a situation where you 329 00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:05.200 won't ever have to do that, such as you'll be 330 00:17:05.240 --> 00:17:09.680 a dermatologist or an optometrist or there's several different kinds 331 00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:11.960 of doctors if you desperately want to help people in 332 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:14.519 the medical field, but there's certain things you don't want 333 00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:16.920 to do, like I, for instance, would never be a dentist. 334 00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:19.720 I can't mess around in people's teeth. I find that disgusting. 335 00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:23.519 If you find trans people disgusting, maybe don't. Maybe just 336 00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:24.759 go be an optometrist. 337 00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:25.359 I don't know. 338 00:17:25.880 --> 00:17:28.200 You're still gonna encounter trans people, but you're not gonna 339 00:17:28.200 --> 00:17:29.559 have to deal with the transness. 340 00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:31.039 You're just gonna give them glasses. 341 00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:34.759 It's a pretty basic it's a pretty basic idea of 342 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:36.880 just if you don't want to do something, don't put 343 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:38.960 yourself in a situation where you're gonna have to do it. 344 00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:42.519 But this bill would allow you to even deny the 345 00:17:42.559 --> 00:17:45.480 glasses to a trans person. That's the fucking problem with 346 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:46.279 this thing. 347 00:17:46.119 --> 00:17:47.559 Right, that's the further problem. 348 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:48.839 Yeah, yeah, right. 349 00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:51.799 I would argue that if you think trans people are gross, 350 00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:54.759 you don't understand physiology well enough to be a physician, 351 00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:55.880 so you shouldn't be. 352 00:17:56.480 --> 00:17:57.960 I would agree that I'm just. 353 00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:03.599 Out there, like, I'll never understand people have this sense 354 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:06.759 of entitlement. Like in a library, people get mad about 355 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:09.240 what books are in there. All the books go in 356 00:18:09.319 --> 00:18:12.759 a library, all of them. That's my understanding of a library, 357 00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:16.000 a place where we put all the books. A hospital 358 00:18:16.119 --> 00:18:18.680 is where you go to get medical help, all of it. 359 00:18:21.039 --> 00:18:24.799 Yeah, that's where we tend to go. Like, oh no, 360 00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:28.279 like you know, I you know, I broke my leg. 361 00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:32.720 Oh no, I'm having weird cramps. Oh no, like you know, 362 00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:36.680 I got shot in my arm. Let me shut the 363 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:38.200 damn hospital. 364 00:18:38.599 --> 00:18:40.559 So we should fit into this box. 365 00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:42.359 Yeah, to fit into a box. 366 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:48.920 So so like and I obviously, like all of us 367 00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:52.519 you know, that want to have allow people to have 368 00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:54.279 their beliefs, like not none of us are saying that 369 00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:56.720 people shouldn't have their beliefs. But also the same thing, 370 00:18:56.799 --> 00:18:59.240 we also have the opinion that there should no harm 371 00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:03.119 happen to others, you know, as human as we want 372 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:04.319 to reduce harm. 373 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:07.599 I think this is just my opinion, y'all. 374 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:12.160 I think that this increases harm and that's not what 375 00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:16.920 doctors are supposed to do. So another note, I'm going 376 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:20.400 to get everybody thirty seconds to answer this question. So 377 00:19:20.519 --> 00:19:23.480 in states where like there's abortion bands and limit access 378 00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:29.200 to reproductive care, we are now seeing women die or 379 00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:34.880 survive or suffer real severe health problems because of these 380 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:38.599 laws that are coming through the pipeline. So do what 381 00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:41.200 future do you see for the constituents in these states 382 00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:45.680 who voted for Representative Kevin West that gave him his position, 383 00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:48.680 and even for politicians looking to keep their position, what 384 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:51.079 are the type of things that they should be really 385 00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:54.839 considering to keep their positions? And you each get thirty seconds, 386 00:19:54.839 --> 00:19:55.799 So go, Tracy, go. 387 00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:01.079 If you want this country to continue in any form 388 00:20:01.160 --> 00:20:05.359 that's recognizable as this country, you're gonna need to stop 389 00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:09.759 taking away rights from people and go back to implementing. 390 00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:12.039 That's the end. That's it, that's all. That's all I got. 391 00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:15.240 Yeah, I'm gonna say that's all seconds. They don't give 392 00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:17.559 a shit about your rights, they don't care about your health, 393 00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:20.480 they don't care about your well being. This is Oklahoma. 394 00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:23.440 They also have another billa in there to make it 395 00:20:23.559 --> 00:20:28.359 legal for teachers to beat disabled children. I'm gonna say 396 00:20:28.359 --> 00:20:33.720 that again, to beat disabled children. They don't give a 397 00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:37.279 shit about people's well being. That's my thirty seconds. 398 00:20:37.400 --> 00:20:42.480 Now I think that, Yeah, I think that what we're 399 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:45.559 forgetting to consider is all the harm we're preventing to 400 00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:49.039 the Christian doctors that don't want to do their job, 401 00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:51.839