Speaker 1: Thousands of people have mysteriously vanished in America's wilderness. Join
us as we dive into the deep end of the
unexplainable world and try to piece together what happened. If
you are listening to Locations Unknown.
Speaker 2: What's up, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of
Locations Unknown. I'm your co host with me as always
as a guy who can take an actual big bite
of an archburger. Mike vander Bogart.
Speaker 3: Wow, so I saw that Vie, the CEO of McDonald's,
just like, is so bad, Like, oh yuck, this is gross.
I don't want to eat. It's like, oh wait, I'm
running this company.
Speaker 2: How bad do you have to be at like a
marketing campaign? Yeah, that you can't take one bite out of,
like the even if you thought it was the most
horrendous thing in the whole world. Yeah, you're like, I
make millions of dollars a year.
Speaker 3: Like, I'll just go to the best doctors after I
eat this burger. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like if it's that bad, everything he did seem like
he was gonna regret this for the rest of his life. Yeah,
Like his body's like I don't even know how to
attack this. I was like, what do you mean that's
a bad look. Yeah, they like he should actually be
fired as a result of that. I don't know that's
or whoever green lighted, Like I wonder if he watched
it and was like, Yep, this one's the best.
Speaker 3: Just don't make me fit into this thing. Maybe he
did like ten takes and ate like fifty of them,
and you know what, if they're going to do anything
to say face, that's what they should come out and
be like it was the hundredth take. Yeah, he literally
ate like a hundred of them. Yeah, and he was
just like lie to us at this point. Well, thank
you anyway. Yeah, thank you to all of our loyal
listeners for tuning in just a few updates before we
get going. A lot of Patreon supporters get to this
time around, So thank you to Aurulia Davenport, Emily Stephenson,
Carly Leans, Joshua Schreiber, Lisa Holcombe, Brittany Mandy Millard, Jeremy Evans,
Christy vellsco Dakota Hayes, Rachel Cohen, and Susan Zappi.
Speaker 2: So I like how Stevenson is on the three forle hell,
I'm it's spent a long day. It's so thank you
to all of you first for supporting the show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much. We can't thank you enough.
It's why we have some of the better equipment we have,
and so thank you. If you want to call the
show called two eight three nine one six nine three,
we just did a voicemail episode. There are some good ones.
There are some good ones very much enjoyed, So sign
up for Patreon, listen to them, and then try to
top them and make our next episode. If you'd like
to listen to some of the other shows on our network,
We've got Off the Trails, who runs this Park, Crime,
Off the Grid, Relish, hoping to get a few more
on there that we've been kind of talking with, so
stay tuned for that. If you want to support the show,
you can obviously go to Patreon, YouTube memberships, premium subscriptions
on Apple and Speaker. We have a store where there's
stuff you can buy that always helps. If money's tight,
just leave us alike, subscribe wherever you listen, if that's
on YouTube or whatever podcast, and just tell all your friends,
and tell all your friends untill they get annoyed with
you and drop you as a friend. Yep, So any
updates from you?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: All right, all right, everybody, let's gear up and get
out to explore locations unknown. September sixth two thousand and nine,
a sixty one year old fitness.
Speaker 3: Instructor, black belt and.
Speaker 2: Seasoned bowhunter leaves his campsite near Elk Mountain in New
Mexico's Santa Fe National Forest. He tells his two companions
he won't go far and we'll return by nightfall. When
he doesn't return, the search begins. Helicopters, volunteers and K
nine units scour the rugged terrain and find nothing. No body,
no gear, no trace. Join us this week as we
investigate the strange disappearance of Melvin Nadel. I have this
weird add thing where when the description of the episode
like finishes perfectly when the violin comes in, it makes
me very happy. Oh that is weird. Yeah, it's very
well produced. Yeah, and it doesn't happen all the time.
Sometimes I'm really early, sometimes i'm produced. Yes, that's what
I'm saying. So we are going to give our producer
a raise, I know, yes, absolutely, from nothing per hour
to nothing per hour.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we can.
Speaker 2: Multiplies salary by a thousand yeah, one thousand percent.
Speaker 3: Rays.
Speaker 2: We are going to Santa Fe National Forest in the
Elk Mountain area. This area sees about one million visitors
per year. It was established in nineteen fifteen in the
state of New Mexico and spans one point six million acres.
So we'll do a little bit of the climate in
the area the Elk Mountains where Melvin Dell dis here.
It sits at the intersection of beauty and brutality. The
campsite was located within the Santa Fe National Forest in
the Sangre de Cristo Mountains of North New Mexico.
Speaker 3: Pop quiz uh. Oh what recent case also was in
that mountain range that we covered. I'll take the f.
Speaker 2: Skelinsky Skelensky and Great Sand Dunes, Okay, in the mountain Airy.
What this is only in the mountainous area right near there.
Speaker 3: No, So the that mountain Chaine goes into Colorado a bit.
And when I was researching this case, I remember that
mountain range. I'm like, did we already cover this case?
And then I was going through and it was Skelensky Okay,
so it kind of almost covered it. Yeah, just not
this exact one. Yes, So at an elevation likely between
eight and ten thousand feet, with Elk Mountain summit reaching
at eleven thousand and six and sixty one feet above
sea level. The elevation is the single most important factor
in understanding the climb Melvin walked into on September six,
two thousand and nine. At those heights, the weather does
not behave the way it does in the town of
Picos below or in Santa Fe forty five minutes to
the west. The mountains make their own rules. Early September
in this part of New Mexico is a transitional season,
like a shoulder season or what else would we call it?
Straddle seasons.
Speaker 2: You'll never let that one die, will Yeah, there's a
couple of people I've saw in person that said they
laugh so hard at straddle seasons and they're gonna start
calling them straddle season chan now on, maybe it's a movement.
Speaker 3: It's a It's definitely a movement. If anyone ever goes
hiking and you're talking about something like that, make sure
to you use straddle.
Speaker 2: It's a huge movement among a very small group of people. Yes,
the dail end of the summer warmth giving way to
the first whispers of fall down in the town of
Pecos at roughly seven thousand feet. Average daytime highs in
early September hover around seventy seven to seventy eight degrees,
so pretty nice. The overnight lows, however, dipped to the fifties.
Oh just so are pronunciation. People are happy. It's pekos
pekos like peso's like pay pay kohs okay. So well,
Melvin wasn't in the town on Peso Pekos, so he
was thousands of feet higher, where temperatures dropped roughly three
to five degrees for every thousand feet of elevation gain.
Speaker 3: That's called being good at what you do right there. Yep,
that's the transition. That's amazing. That's straddleediction.
Speaker 2: At nine to ten thousand feet, a comfortable afternoon in
the low sixties can turn into a night in the
mid thirties or even lower, cold enough to induce hypothermia
in someone who isn't prepared, especially someone who is injured
or immobile. Looking at actual recorded weather data for the
Santa Fe area in September two thousand and nine, the
first week of the month saw daytime highs and the
low to mid eighties at Santa Fez elevation at about
seven thousand feet, with overnight lows in the uppers forties
to low fifties, so it got.
Speaker 3: Pretty cold at night. Yeah.
Speaker 2: On September sixth, specifically the day Melvin vanished, Nafe recorded
a high of approximately eighty degrees in a low near
fifty up at Elk Mountain, Those numbers would have been
significantly cooler, likely in the mid sixties during the day
and potentially dipping into the upper thirties or low forties
after dark. By the time his friends Joe and Kevin
were firing signal shots in the night sky, the mountain
air would have been cold, especially for a man hunting
in camouflage without his backpack or overnight gear. September is
also the tail end of the North American monsoon season.
Speaker 3: In New Mexico.
Speaker 2: From roughly late June through mid September, moisture surges up
from the Gulf of Mexico and the Gulf of California,
producing afternoon and evening thunderstorms that can be intense, highly localized,
and dangerously unpredictable. These storms build quickly. A clear blue
sky at noon can turn into a violent thunderstorm by
three o'clock, dropping heavy rain, hail and lightning on a
narrow band of terrain, while the valley a mile away
will stay boned dry. The average precipitation for Pecos area
in September is just over two inches, but that moisture
tends to arrive in sudden, concentrated bursts rather than a gentle,
steady rain. Flash flooding in narrow canyons and arroyos is
real and recurring hazard. The terrain apple flies every weather risk.
The sangraded Cristos are steep, rocky, and heavily forested with
pine fir, spruce, and aspen. At higher elevations, the forest
canopy thickens and visibility drops. The ground is uneven, riddled
with loose rock, down timber, gopher holes and root tangles.
A man with a wrapped injured knee navigating this train
in fading afternoon light was already operating with a narrow
margin of safety. The mountains are all sentorious for sudden
fog and cloud cover that can roll in and erase
landmarks in minutes, leaving even experienced outdoorsmen disorientated.
Speaker 3: That one's for you.
Speaker 2: What makes the September timing particularly treacherous is how quickly
the seasons can turn. The warm season in Peikos officially
ends around September fifteenth, and the first hard freezes at
higher elevation can arrive by mid to late September. In
the Sangrad de Cristo's the southern Colorado, the same mountain
range just slightly farther north, Wildlife management guides warned that
the first snow or freeze can occur in early September
at higher elevations. By the time the family was organizing
their October volunteer search, six weeks after he vanished the
Actually they are acutely aware that winter was approaching and
the snow would soon blak in the mountains, potentially burying
any remaining evidence. So we'll talk about a little bit
about the terrain, which covered it a little bit. But
to understand how a man can vanish without walking distance
within his own camp, you first had to understand the
land itself. Look how it looks around Elk Mountain rises
eleven thousand, six hundred feet in the San Miguel County,
within the Santa Fe National Forest parts of Sango A
sun graded Crystal Mountains, the southernmost extension of the Rocky
Mountains the United States. The Pecos Wilderness encompasses over two
hundred and twenty three thousand acres of protected land, and we
talked about the elevation going up to thirteen thousand feet,
So the train shifts dramatically with altitude. Ponderosa Pine and
Douglas first give ways to the dense subalpine spruce and
aspen as you climb and above timberline, the world opens
to exposed alpine meadows and bare rock ridges. Melvin's campsite
was not high on the ridgeline. It sat in a
large open clearing off Forest Road six forty six, which
is a dirt road branching from State Highway sixty three
past the small town of Terrero. During fall hunting season,
ATVs and trucks are common along the road. Other campers
and hunters are around. This is not the trackless backcountry
that some accounts make it sound like. So there's activity
in the area, yeah, especially if it's a hunting season.
Speaker 3: Yeah. From what I gathered, this is pretty used area
in summer and hunting season, so it's not desolate like
some of the places we've covered.
Speaker 2: You'll see activity, yeah, However, though the train immediately off
the roads is something else entirely step ten feet into
the trees in the forest closes around you. The ground
is treacherous, loose rock, exposed roots, down timber, and animal
burrows that catch a boot and twist a knee. The
Sangrid de Crystals is carved with deep, narrow drainages, steep
sided ravines cut by snow melt and monsoon runoff, sometimes
fifty to one hundred feet deep, with near vertical walls.
A person who stumbles into one, especially with a bad
knee and fading light, may not climb out. A body
at the bottom, covered by seasonal debris, could go undetected
for years. Those drainages feed into creeks, which feed into
the Pecos River, a dynamic waterway that could carry remains
miles downstream. The forest density compounds the problem. At the
elevation surrounding Melvin's campsite, the canopy is thick enough to
severely limit aerial visibility, so someone wearing full camouflage lying
still in a forest was nearly impossible to spot from
a helicopter. The camouflage is meant to hide him from
elk may also have hidden him from rescuers. The wildlife
fills the rest, so Elk Mountain's force is home to elk,
mule deer, black bear, mountain lion, bobcat, coyote, and golden eagles.
Mountain lions are ambush predators that st reich from behind
without warning, so one hundred and thirty five pound man
crouched in hunting blind focused on a tree line ahead
would be vulnerable though a predator attack. It still does
not explain the total absence of physical evidence. I'm not
going to get into the part that makes it confound
because I'm gonna give away too much stuff.
Speaker 3: So tell us about how maybe to hike safely.
Speaker 2: Yes, So one of the things you want to do,
obviously that we say every time, leave a detailed trip
plan or itinerary, so your exact routes, campsite locations, expected
return times, vehicle descriptions, license plate things that people might
need to find to see if you're in an area.
You also want to know the terrain, know the mileage,
elevation gain, where water is. If you're an experienced climber,
you should have an idea of what type of elevation
gain you can handle over what distance and time. You
want to check the weather forecasts, prepare for altitude because
altitude sickness is real, and prepared to come down if
you're starting to feel the effects of it. You do
want to make camp before dark. Most backcountry accidents happen
after nightfall. Learn the terrain around your camp in daylight
so that you can navigate it safely. If you need
to move after dark, you want to set specific check
in times with your group. If someone doesn't show up
at the agreed upon time, start looking immediately. Do not wait,
and stay on established trails whenever possible. The terrain off
trail is riddled with loose rock, hidden ravines, and thick
brush that can disorient you within minutes. We talked a
little bit about the wildlife. Just some things that you
should be carrying if possible, GPS, a physical map and
compass for the GPS fails and you want to know
how to use it. Fully charged phone, emergency signaling device
such as a whistle, mirror or PLB, overpacked food and water, headlamp,
fire starting materials, extra layers of close first aid kits,
and bare spray. If you do get lost, stop moving
the moment you realize you're disoriented. Continuing to walk when
loss is how people end up miles from our searchers
are looking. Unless you're in a hazardous spot, you want
to get to a safe spot. Use the train and
as a guide. In the Pecos area, streams and dranges
flowed downhill to the Pecos River where it leads to civilization.
If falls fills fall water downstream, signal for help using
any of the any three of anything. So three whistleblasts,
three shots fired, three gunshots three three is basically a
universal distrust signal. You can build three fires, and you
can use a mirror to flash aircraft stay visible. So
if you've were wearing camouflage, you might want to take
that off if you or flip it inside out, or
try and get brighter clothing on if you can. Other
than that, Mike, how about you tell us a little
bit about Melvin.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the subject of tonight's case is Melvin at Nadel.
Date of birth was March thirteenth, nineteen forty eight. He
went missing September sixth of two thousand and nine. He
was a male, aged sixty one. He was five foot two,
about one hundred and thirty five pounds, though Some sources
list him at a one hundred and ten pounds. He
had black hair, brown eyes. Other features about him. He
had two full arm sleeves tattoos. One of them had
a dragon, a pentagram, a taekwondozibil, a mouth with vampire fans,
and a guitar. So very interesting set of tattoos on
his arms. Clothing and geary He was last seen in
so he had a cameo print jacket, shirt and pants,
polypropylene underclothes, thermal socks, hiking boots, black watch. He did
have a injured knee, so he had a knee wrap
and a brace. He had a forty four special revolver
on him. He had camo print. He had a cameoprint
Martin compound bow with black and white zebra striped arrows,
and he had a hunting knife. Personalities personality wise, the
sky did sound pretty interesting. So he was described as
discipline focused, resilient. He was a black belt, and he
was a fitness trainer. He was described as a jack
of all trades. He was comfortable with computers, jewelry making,
fitness instruction, and the outdoors. He had a quick wit,
had a quiet intensity about him. He was very loyal
and he was a dedicated hands on father. He homeschooled
his daughter Kristen for most of her life and was
described at it as her best friend. He obviously with
the guitar tattoo, loved rock and roll music, but he
also was not one to wander and take on necessary risks,
so he preferred to sit still in a hunting blind
rather than pursue game on foot, and he was described
as cautious by nature after a previous experience of getting
lost while hunting, so this would not be the first
time he actually got lost. Medical injuries or issues other
than so. He did injure his knee right before his disappearance,
and it was wrapped in a brace, and one source
says he twisted it stepping in a gopher hole while
target practicing, and another actually said he heard it while
he was a teaching a pilates class, so we'll never
know how he heard it, but he had a bad
knee other than that, though his wife said he did
not suffer from any other known health issues, so generally speaking,
a very healthy sixty one year old male occupation hobby.
He owned and operated a pilates fitness plus a popular
gym in the Santa Fe, New Mexico area. He previously
also owned a jewelry store. He was a first degree
black belt in taekwondo. He was also an avid bow
hunter and he preferred a passive, blind based hunting style
where he basically just sat and waited for the game
to come to him. And he was also skilled with
computers and he was frequently the person that people called
when they had a problem with their computer. And he
was obviously a very popular fitness instructor in his hometown.
And he was described as tough but supportive, So he
really is a jack of all trades. Yeah, he owned
a jewelry store, he's a fitness instructor, he's a black
belt in taekwondo, also an expert with computers, so sounds
like a pretty interesting guy. Experienced in the wilderness, so
very experienced outdoorsman, and he's a seasoned bowhunter and he
has done multiple hunting over the years. He also had
been lost once before he had to fire his gun
into the air to be found, and that experience made
him adapt to habits, always carrying a GPS unit and
always stand close to camp. He also was comfortable in
the backcountry, but not reckless. His hunting style was deliberate
and low risk, and he was, like I said, very
physically fit for his age. He was trained in martial arts,
but he was not what you'd consider a long distance
backcountry hiker. So experience at this location. He had visited
Elk Mountain before. The camp site was described as a
place Melvin had visited before on prior hunting trips. He
was familiar enough with the area to know the trail
from camp and to point out exactly where he intended
to set up his blind. It was only a group
of trees about one hundred to one hundred and fifty
yards downtrail, so really not that far from camp. I mean,
one hundred yards is a football field, so that's pretty
darn close. Despite familiarity, his previous experience getting lost demonstrates
that even when you know the terrain, it can provide challenges.
We'll jump right into timeline and for those of you watching,
I don't know if Joe's sharing it yet, but we're
looking at kind of the Elk Mountain area.
Speaker 2: It looks pretty rugged. Yeah, it's pretty rugged. I can
see all the dirt roads are not labeled. Even when
I zoom in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I don't know if they're hiking trails more so.
Speaker 2: Than like ATV. Yeah, but it's pretty remote. They said
it was by Torrero, Like, yeah, there's Carrero.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's like this is Vegos. Uh, there's Santa Fe
right here. Okay, yeah they said his. I mean this
is a large area, but like his campsites, like.
Speaker 3: This, how close? And now I'm curious before I get
in the time, how close is this the Great Sand Dunes?
Might have to type it in find out find out
because I'm there's Vegas okay, so not that close. Yeah,
there's Santa Fe National Forest. I can see how the
mountain chain got three hundred miles south. Okay, interesting maybe more.
Speaker 2: Than I'm like looking down at the bar at the
bottom of the screen and looking at the screen. This
is not scientific at all, not even as the crow
flies No, okay, yeah, it's just interesting since this mountain
range was featured in one of our other cases recently,
and not to plug our Patreon page again, but one
of the voicemails was a lady who believes she was
the last person to see Brian Sklinsky alive. Yeah, which
was pretty crazy. And it was I was very convinced
what she said the timeline. I'm very she's a sociopath
and a liar. And why would you exactly? Yeah, because
it happens so long ago. I mean, what do you
have the game for that?
Speaker 3: But yeah, I really do think based on her description
that she did see him.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's roughly one hundred and fifty miles of
that last story.
Speaker 3: Gotcha, all right? So we will jump right into the time.
So we're gonna start a few days before Sunday, September
sixth of two thousand and nine. So in the days
leading up to the Labor Day week and hunting trip,
Melvin at some point injured his knee, like I said.
One account says he might have twisted it stepping in
a gopher hole while target practicing. Another says it was
an injury during a pilates class. Whatever the cause of
the injury, the knee was hurt badly enough that he
had the rapit, but not bad enough that he couldn't
go hunting in his mind, so some people close to
him actually thought he maybe shouldn't have gone on that
year's trip, but Melvin insisted it wasn't that bad. And honestly,
I get why he did it. He sits in a blind,
it's only one hundred yards from camp. That doesn't sound
like something you couldn't do with a bum knee. Yeah.
It is now Sunday, September sixth, two thousand and nine.
It was Labor Day weekend. Melvin drove his Burgundy two
thousand and one jeep Cherokee to the area to Elk
Mount area of Santa Fe National Forest near Peycos, New Mexican.
He was meeting two hunting companions, Joe Moons, a longtime
friend and Joe's brother in law, identified in some sources
as Kevin and in other sources as Eric so Kevin
or Eric. The three men set up camp near a
clearing deep in the forest off a dirt road not
far from the Pecos River, which is a place that
Melvin had visited many times before. And I should note
that there was some news reports that described his vehicle
a little different than this. Just take that with a
grain of salt. And so the plan was straightforward. Joe
and Kevin would hike further out, heading towards the peak,
with the goal of pushing animals back towards Melvin's position. Melvin,
who was cautious and limited by his injured knee, would
stay close to camp. At approximately four point thirty in
the afternoon, Melvin left the camp site. He told his
friends he would not travel far and that he would
be back before nightfall. He pointed to a group of trees,
like I said, that was only one hundred to two
one hundred and fifty yards down trail, and that's where
he planned to set up his blind. So at the
time he was carrying with him he had his compound
bow with the black and white zebra striped arrows. He
had his forty four Special revolver, and he has hunting
knife and Joe, I'm curious, can you pull up what
a forty four Special revolver looks?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: Yes, I just it's come up in the case a
few times now, and I'm just interested to see. In
my mind, I have a picture of like a cowboy
with the one where you're.
Speaker 2: Like, okay, yeah, it's it's I mean it's I always
looked at those as like the old cop guns. Oh yeah,
like from the eighties and the nineties. Yeah, it's like
what the sheriffs had. Yeah, in like a small town, Yes, exactly. Okay,
So something similar to one of these is what he
was carrying on him, Okay, and it looks like it
packs a pretty good punch based on the bullets.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure. I know a lot of guys
at bowhunt will carry them just for safety. Yeah. So interesting. Okay,
Well I just wanted to see what it looked like. Yep.
So he was dressed like Joe had mentioned and I
had mentioned, in full camouflage. He had a camouflage print jacket,
shirt and pants. And obviously this kind of gear is
not great for search and rescue teams to find somebody,
but it's great for when you're hunting.
Speaker 4: Though.
Speaker 3: The funny thing is when you hunt here in Wisconsin,
like deer hunting season, you have to wear blaze orange.
So if you go missing in Wisconsin, he might be
found easier because you're gonna have just blaze orange all
over you. His blazing blazing orange. Yes, that's the name
of the color. So inside his jeep park near the campsite,
Melvin left behind his backpack, his cell phone, and his
GPS and obviously he normally does carry his GPS with
him while hunting to keep from getting lost, specifically because
he got lost in the past, but for whatever reason,
he decided not to carry it with him this time,
So the fact that he left it behind strongly suggests
he believed the hunt would be brief and very close
to camp. One source also reports that a half eaten
subway sandwich was found inside the vehicle, in that Melvin's
hunting blind had been deconstructed and placed back in the jeep.
So this detail does raise questions that if Melvin had
set up a blind and then took it down, did
he return to camp at some point before heading out again.
And this is the one note I had on the
conflict about his truck. So some sources state it is
a two thousand and one jeep Cherokee with gear locked inside,
but then another the Queue Center for Missing Persons, described
the vehicle as an unlocked Burgundy jeep Wrangler, So he
was in a jeep. It might have been locked, it
might have been unlocked, but the core fact is that
the critical survival and navigation gear was left in the
vehicle at the Bass camp, and that is really consistent
across all the sources. iPhone It's now same day, Sunday,
September ninth, two thousand and nine. It's now evening, so
as the sun began to go down over Elk Mountain,
Joe and Kevin returned to Bass Camp after their hunt.
Melvin's jeep was still parked the camp, but Melvin was
not there. They called out for him, no reply. As
it got darker and darker, there was still no sign
of him. His friends resorted to a time honored wilderness signal.
They fired two shots into the air, hoping Melvin would
hear them and either respond or navigate back to the sound. Strangely,
two shots were returned from somewhere in the distance, off
in the dark forest, but they never were able to
figure out who fired those shots. So Joe and Kevin
immediately jumped into action. They got into their vehicles and
turned down their headlights, their high beams, they laid on
their horns. They drove towards the direction of the return shots,
but they found nothing. No Melvin, no voice calling back. Silence.
So at some point that evening, another hunter in the
area encountered Joe and Kevin, and this hunter had a
satellite phone and they used it to contact search and rescue.
So pretty fortunate for those two guys that they found
someone with the satellite phone, because the searchers were alerted
pretty much right away because he was supposed to be
back by nightfall and he wasn't. So it's now Monday,
September seventh, going into that week, so a search and
rescue operation was launched. It was led by the New
Mexico State Police. Over the course of the week, the
operation grew to include upwards of thirty people on the ground.
They had search dogs and even a Blackhawk helicopter scanning
the terrain from above. Canine units were brought into Melvin's
campsite and put on his scent. The dogs actually immediately
picked up his trail and followed it from camp, heading
down the exact trail he had told his friends he
would take. But the dogs tracked the scent approximate only
fifty yards from the campsite, directly to the area where
everyone expected him to be. But then the scent just
simply stopped. So that was a little bizarre. The dogs
had a strong scent and then it just stopped. There
was no continuation, no cent trail leading further into the forest,
no indication he had wandered off in any direction, no blood,
no signs of a struggle, no dropped arrows, no shell casings, nothing.
His wife, Edna Nadel, later said, they never found the bow.
No did they ever find anything? No, never found anything.
That is the bizarre stuff. How can you get carry
it if you get lost, isn't it going to get
heavy and hold onto all of it? And there's nothing,
no shoes, one of the arrows would have fallen, or
the bow has to drop because those are heavy. But
there was nothing. So when asked if search and rescue
personnel found the circumstances odd, his wife responded, everybody said
it was odd. So she's got a point. Yeah, you've
got the strange fact that the scent went in the
direction where he was going and then just stopped completely.
Speaker 2: Which we've heard about that in another case. Isn't one
o the thing that means we don't have to get
into yet?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Maybe, but yeah, it could mean something. But you
would think that the scent would continue and then it
wouldn't just stop in one position. You would assume you'd
find stuff there. But like she said, the bow is heavy,
like they didn't find his bow and abom knee and
abum knee going far fast he's not going very far,
so very very interesting. So searchers combed the rugged terrain
around Elk Mountain with extraordinary precision. More than fifty volunteers
participate across multiple search efforts, working grid searches and line
movements through the mountainous train. This is an area with cliffs, rocks,
dense forest, but also logging trails, hiking paths, and old roads.
The Pecos River also ran through the area and was
also searched. So unlike some of the like Denali, the
case we didn't Denali, where you're just like out there.
This has a lot of stuff. There's logging roads and trails,
old roads and rivers and which if you're lost you
can find one of those. And this guy's say on
it sounded smart and capable, and he's been out there
a lot. He's even been lost before, like Joe mentioned
in one of your tips, if you're lost, follow the
rivers downstream, just walk the river. They all go down.
So this is all stuff he would probably have known,
which makes it all the more bizarre. It's now Friday,
September eleventh of two thousand and nine, so by nearly
a week after the disappearance, Melvin's wife Edna and daughter
Christen had spent days waiting and wondering. In a news
segment that aired on KRQE around this time, Edna said,
I am hoping. I'm hoping, no sign, no leads as
of yet, We've pretty much thought of every possibility. And
then Kristen told the cameras, I can't even tell you
how many scenarios I've made up in my mind, you know,
just like what if this happened, what if this happened,
But you know, there's really no way of knowing at
this point. And then Elda or Edna, who at this
point was barely holding it together, said, kind of like
thinking that my husband is lying there somewhere. It's unbearable.
He is a very good person. He doesn't deserve this,
so pretty pretty sad stuff. The state police continued to
classify the operation as a search and rescue effort, and
volunteers were asked to call to New Mexico State Police
District one office, which the number at the time was
five O five A two seven nine three zero zero.
It's now Saturday, September twelfth of two thousand and nine.
There was a major volunteer search that was organized, so
volunteers were told to meet at seven am at the
end of State Highway sixty three in Peiko's well Inness area.
The search that day focused on a very mountainous area
with lots of cliffs and rocks, but sadly around September
twelfth to September thirteenth of two thousand and nine and
the search was eventually called off. So this was one
week of intensive searching already, the New Mexico State Police
called off the search operation. Dozens of rescuers had scoured
the Elk Mountain area in surrounding wilderness and didn't find
a single clue, so you can't search forever. It's now Monday,
September fourteenth of two thousand and nine, so two days
after the official search was called off, a local news
station KOBTV reported that Melvin's family was continuing their own search.
They followed the Pekos server south near Val Kilmer's property.
Val Kilmer's property in the Pekos area, hoping to find
some sign of Melvin. Moving forward, now we're into October.
It's October twenty fourth, two thousand and nine, so this
would be six weeks after Melvin vanished. Another local news
station aired a segment where Melvin's wife Edna and daughter
Kristen were still pressing forward organizing another big volunteer search
effort for that coming Sunday. And at this time everyone
was aware that winter was approaching and snow would soon
blank the so that would potentially bury any remaining evidence.
So they had they wanted to get out there and
get one more search in before before that little air
of desperation. Yeah, And in that broadcast, the family expressed
their belief that whatever happened to Melvin was beyond his control,
and they this is when they started raising the possibility
that he may have encountered the wrong people. I put
that in air quotes in the woods. His daughter said,
it's really hard because, you know, I still go to
the school, and I still have all I still go
to school and still have all the things that I
do a normal day to day basis. And sometimes when
I'm just doing those things and I feel kind of happy,
I feel like I shouldn't be happy, because in the
back of my mind it's always there. Then Edna made
a direct appeal to people watching, there's anybody that knows something,
just please come forward. We wanted something. We wanted something,
some closure in this. You know, it's really I'm begging now.
So the family had also put together a dedicated website
for the search effort, and this was accessible at the
time through the local news station's link. It's now approximately
June of twenty ten. This would be when there was
another search effort, so roughly this would be nine months
after Melvin disappeared. Once Winter had thought out, they organized
a second search in the Elk Mount area, and again,
despite extensive efforts, the result was the same. Not a
single clue surface, not a shred of clothing, not his bow,
not his arrows, his knife, not even a footprint. So finally,
by September twenty ten, the family now is just seeking
a death certificate. So about one year after he vanished,
an attorney, acting on behalf of his wife, filed to
obtain a death certificate. It's a painful but necessary legal
step that allows the surviving family members to settle estates,
manage finances, and navigate the bureaucratic realities of someone disappearing
like this. Then, on September of twenty thirteen, four years
after he vanished, another local news station aired a brief
segment noting that his wife was still holding out hope
for answers. Then, in twenty nineteen, our friend David Politis
came out with the documentary Missing four on One The Hunted,
and Melvin's case received significant renewed attention when it was
featured in the documentary Missing four on One The Hunted,
directed by Like I said, David Politis, included interviews with
Edna and local hunting guide named Bob with twenty five
years of experience in the Santa Fe Mountains. When asked
what he thought could have happened, Bob said, here in
New Mexico Roswell Alium duction. Yeah. Really, he had to
have gotten a ride out. He had to have been
picked up or gotten a ride out. I assume politics
placed Melvin's disappearance within a broader geographical cluster of unexplained
vanishings in the Santa Fe area, noting it alongside the
twenty seventeen disappearance of Stanley vigil A near Burrellis Peak,
just ten miles from where Melvin vanished.
Speaker 2: And I don't know how I feel about this anymore,
after all the stuff we've been hearing about him.
Speaker 3: Well, the controversy this documentary had a lot of controversy
because one of the cases he covered, Aaron Hedges. We
actually covered his case too. He left out crucial facts
about the case to make it sound more mysterious. And
I won't go into it. You can go and google it.
It's a cash grab, yes, I mean he left out
facts about the case that no one else covering the
pot covering that case would have left out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you actually want to know, I was trying
to find a SoundBite from the Tim Robinson still of
saying him saying cash grab, because that's why I think
of when I think of Politis now like he's just
trying to sell books and sell stories and not actually
because he started out supposedly wanting to find the link
between all this and now yeah, it's just a cash crab. No,
I don't want to go into it, but oh we
should go into it. Yeah, he'll he'll try suing us. Yeah,
he's been known to do that.
Speaker 3: Yeah he has. But press is good press money. Yeah, right,
anyone with a keyboard can go out there and look
at the discrepancies in this documentary that he produced. Yeah,
just like search Google for David Politis fraud. Surprisingly, his
coverage on Melvin was pretty straightforward, but the Aaron Hedges
case was bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure I'm giving him some crap.
I'm sure most of the stuff has most of the things,
but no, I mean tipping the scales somewhere in some areas.
Speaker 3: I have found a lot of actual errors in his
books because I have a bunch of his books, because
that was kind of my like reading through his books
got me interested in this stuff. Yeah, and when you
start going through the cases and then I was like
cross referencing things he had in his book, and there's
just stuff missing names, spelled wrong, And there's all kinds
of theories online about why this has been done. And
we talked about it on a Patreon episode. So if
you want to hear our true opinions on it, you
got to.
Speaker 2: No, you got a little taste. Now if you want
all the tea. Yeah, so you had to cough up
the big bucks. Yeah, cough up the big bucks. But
so a little tangent there. But either way, like Joe said, no,
it's still good for exposure to the case because this
documentary was big at the time when it came out,
so it got a lot of exposure from Melvin's case
twenty twenty one. Now it's February sixth of twenty twenty one.
So a post appeared on Facebook from what appears to
be his daughter set and it said, my dad went
missing Episodetember six, two thousand and nine, without a trace.
This happened in Pecoast in Mexico. Then in November twenty
twenty five, so pretty recent, his daughter did a Reddit
ama on her dad's disappearance, and she was as specific
When asked what specific evidence letter to believe it was
foul play rather than an accent, she responded, I've always
believed that way because nothing was ever discovered, no trace
of him, no scrap of clothing, no nor any any
of his weapons. He was equipped with a gun, a bow,
all the arrows, and a knife. Another commentary suggested he
may have encountered someone who wanted to steal his weapons,
she replied, And she replied, I'm convinced he encountered the
wrong individual group and his weapons were never located. So
as of present day March twenty twenty six, Melvin has
never been found.
Speaker 3: There's been no remains.
Speaker 2: Okncerry, I do have this up, Okay, I will read
it out in a second No, hold on, I won't
read it, but I just saw someone asked, did your
family receive any compensation or monetary help from David poled
As to aid in his curt recovery. Here's what she wrote, No,
we did not receive any compensation from him. Part of
the reason I didn't want to talk was because I
kind of felt, while it was a way to get
my dad's case out there again, that it was a
cash grab.
Speaker 3: She called it a cash crop.
Speaker 2: And that's her. That's her, Yes, I read it, use
her name. Yeah, so that's like, that's her. And this
is yeah, I have this is the amah God. I
was following along while you're talking about I just thought
it was funny that she just also said that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I just said it was probably cash grab, and she said, yeah,
that was felt like a cash grab.
Speaker 3: Yep. Yeah. I mean, well, gotta go pay to listen
to our thoughts, our deep thoughts on mister politis the third.
Speaker 2: Question, what do you want the public to know about
your dad that may add insight to his disappearance? She wrote,
My dad and I had active plans for the following
few days, as I had just moved into my own
apartment that week, and he was helping me get settled.
He would never be the type to willingly disappear. We
were very close to my entire life. Okay, yeah, all right,
so this is yeah, this is an interesting AMA. I
kind of really get into, you know, the inside baseball
on the disappearance.
Speaker 3: Yeah. It was on the r Missing fow and one forum. Yeah.
Like I said, as of March twenty twenty six, he's
never been found, no remains, no clothing, no weapons, no
personal effects. He's listed in the National Missing and Unidentified
Person System name US. His family does not believe he
left on his own accord. Joe just read the statement
from his daughter. But police have no evidence of foul play.
So you want to hear from the family. Yeah, let's
hear a little clip here? Are you gonna share it?
Speaker 4: Tonight? Sixty one year old hunter who disappeared in the
Pekas wildron this near Santa Fe Sunday. Search crews have
been looking for him all week, and tomorrow they plan
to step up their efforts. News searteen's Jim Winchester has
more from the newsbooks.
Speaker 5: Well Dick State police and volunteers will meet first thing
tomorrow morning for a major search and rescue effort to
find sixty one year old Mel Nadell.
Speaker 6: I am hoping. I am hoping. No sign, no leads.
As of yet, We've pretty much thought.
Speaker 4: Of every possibility what.
Speaker 7: Happened to Mel Nadell, the popular owner of a fitness
facility in Santa Fe, has disappeared without a trace.
Speaker 8: I'm kind of like hoping that, however state he is now,
I just went him home.
Speaker 7: Upwards of thirty people, search dogs and even black Hawk
helicopters have searched the area this week where a friend
last saw him Sunday evening when.
Speaker 3: We followed the trail.
Speaker 6: The dogs tracked the trail all the way down to
where he was last seeing or heard from from that point.
They're continuing to a great search around that area, you know,
from a few miles out, and still no leads.
Speaker 3: At this point.
Speaker 7: Nadelle's wife and daughter have spent the past five days
waiting and wondering.
Speaker 8: I can't even tell you how many scenarios I've made
up in my mind, you know, just like what if
this happened, What if this happened?
Speaker 3: But you know, there's really no way of knowing.
Speaker 8: At this point point he he's alive, I will be very,
very thankful.
Speaker 7: Tomorrow's volunteer search effort. We'll focus on a very mountainous
area with cliffs and rocks. Nadelle's family is holding out hope, kind.
Speaker 8: Of like thinking that my husband is lying there somewhere.
It's unbearable. He is a very good person and he
doesn't deserve this.
Speaker 5: And state police and the family ask anyone who is
interested in volunteering in tomorrow's search effort for mel Nadelle
to call their district office in that area.
Speaker 7: That number is fiveh five eight.
Speaker 3: That's sad.
Speaker 2: That's a week week into it. So they're still kind
of in the throes of everything.
Speaker 3: That's that. That stinks. Yeah, I mean, what is that
sixteen years ago now? Yep, yep, so ten years ago. Yeah,
it's crazy that all is. So we'll get into theories,
jump right into theories. So I'll start with I'm gonna
do the kind of thing I like to do these days.
Most likely maybe likely, not likely, most likely, this is
not all. This is usually not the theory. We go
with it first, So I put most likely foul play. Okay,
I'll explain my reasoning here. Yeah, tell me. The theory goes,
he encountered another person or group in the woods. And
this is obviously a theory that the daughter believes, and
she's consistently held it. She had the right at Ama
just in twenty twenty five and earlier on. She's, like
we said, always believed that something happened to him. That's
why no trace of him, no scrap or anything, was found,
none of his equipment. The reasons why this fits is
it's one of the only theories that coherently explains the
total absence of physical evidence, no body, clothing, weapons, nothing.
If Melvin had died of natural causes exposure, a fall,
or an animal attack in the forest, something would have
surfaced in the sixteen years of searching. Just because of
the general human traffic of the area. This isn't like
an extremely remote place like Denali or some of the
places we've covered. There's a lot more people here, hunters especially,
you know, an area where there's lots of hunters. I
almost think there's better odds of somebody's remains being found
because hunters aren't staying on trail. They're looking for a
blind or you know, they're looking for spots to hunt
and like that ties into. The Elk Mount area is
not a trackless jungle. It's crisscross with trails, logging roads, paths,
streams that flow downhill eventually to civilization. A body or
gear left in this train has a reasonable chance of
being discovered over time, and the area around Pecos has
historically been associated with illegal drug cultivation and trafficking. The
Land of Entrampment blog notes that some theorists think the
victim ran into a drug operation or some south of
the border carte gangster stuff, or into some type of
gun running operation, though the author also notes no reefer
fields were found during the search, but he may have
stumbled across something or someone he wasn't supposed to see,
So the area has a history of this kind of activity.
I think that strengthens the foul play case. Another part
of this is mel was a smaller individual. He was
five 't two, one hundred and thirty five pounds, and
he had an injured knee. Despite being armed and a
black belt, he would have been physically vulnerable if surprised
or outnumbered, especially if it was getting dark. It's getting dark.
He is trained in martial arts and he had a gun,
but he was injured. Yeah, I mean having a bad knee.
I remember, Joe, you hiked with us when you're with
a bad knee, and I mean it was almost completely debilitating. Yeah.
You're like a different person when your knee is messed
up like that. Yeah. Yeah. And then the deconstructed blind
and half eating sandwich suggests he may have returned to
the v vehicle at some point before going missing. This
also creates a window where he was at or near camp,
possibly visible from the road, and potentially encountered someone. And Kristin,
which is the daughter, also criticized the handling of the scene,
so the jeep was never treated as a potential crime scene,
there was no forensic stunt on it, and it sat
accessible to anyone for days before being returned to the family.
Things that go against the foul play theory is there's
really no motive that's been identified by law enforcement. Joe, Kevin, Edna,
and Kristen were all investigated and cleared. There is no
suspects ever emerged, so and there was really no evidence
of any kind of crime happening. Now, they didn't do
a forensic sweep of the vehicle, but there was no blood,
no signs of a struggle anything. Next theory that is
likely would be a medical event followed by the concealment
of his body due to the train. So obviously he
was sixty one with an injurnee. You know those wife
said he had no known health issue. You know, sudden
cardiac events, stroke, our aneurysms can strike without warning. He
could have suffered some type of medical emergency like that
that dropped him quickly and silently. This would explain the
abrupt end of the scent trail and lack of a struggle.
The search strain included cliffs, rocks, dense brush, and water features.
If a body fell into a crevasse, a deep ravine
or in a fast moving water could remain undiscovered for decades.
Though the Pecos River was searched, but it's very dynamic waterway.
A body entering the water could be carried miles downstream.
Now why this doesn't work is fifty volunteers across multiple efforts,
canine units, blackhawk helicopters all searched the area and found
a total absence of any trace, not just a body.
But they didn't find a bow, arrow's revolver knife boots watch,
which would be extremely difficult to explain through natural concealment
alone if he had just suffered a medical emergency and
metal and synthic materials don't decompose, so that stuff would
be out there even sixteen years later. You're going to
find a compound bowl, yeah, if you stumble across it.
Possible theories of what happened animal attacks, so they're barren
mountain lions in the area, So obviously Elk Mountain is
home to black bears, mountain lions by bobcats, coyotes. Mountain
lion ambush is like Joe mentioned, sudden, silent and comes
from behind. Mel might not have had time to react
or even get his gun out. Why this might work
Mountain lion attacks can be swift and lethal, and the
cat can drag prey at a significant distance from the
kill site. Black bears, while rarely predatory towards humans, are
capable of it. Why this obviously falls apart is animal
attacks leave a mess. They're going to see that. The
dogs are going to pick up on that. They didn't
find any of that. Predators don't clean up metal weapons
or arrows or boots, and like I said, the canine
units would have I.
Speaker 2: Would rule that out as just not possible even or
so improbable that it feels impossible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, unless he wasn't in the area where they thought he.
Speaker 2: Was, which again, yeah, his truck's there and he's got
a bum knee.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Another one is got lost, died of exposure, body
never found, you know the official classifications. So Mel wandered
farther than intended, became lost, he didn't have his GPS,
bad knee, fading light, and he just succumbed to exposure
or fell in train that concealed him. You know why
this works. He'd gotten lost in the past, so he's
been lost, he didn't have his GPS, it was night,
and you know that same blog I mentioned earlier notes
that scent dogs are only accurate fifty percent of the
time on average, So the short scent trail may simply
reflect dog limitations rather than anything stranger than that or paranormal.
So I have to say something on this because I've seen, Yeah,
you go into what you were talking about with dog suns.
Speaker 2: I feel like on this show, because we've talked to
people who know about dogs and are somewhat experts on
dogs and We've read lots of things. I feel like
we keep hearing either the dogs are amazing or the
dogs aren't that accurate. Yeah, it seems like a ping
pongs back and forth. But the one thing I was
thinking of why the scent would just end if you
got into a vehicle. Okay, so this is like where
going in to fall play. It could be did he
get into a car with somebody who he thought was safe.
Was he forced into a vehicle?
Speaker 3: So like he walked to that spot then walked the
same spot back. The dogs would know which way he watched,
or did they get picked up at the spot? Well,
the spot was in, Oh was in Okay, so I
mean like fifty yards from his camp. But I could
you know what if you walked that trail in to
your blind Yeah, you're gonna walk the same one back,
same one back. So the scent is going to be
in the spot you walked, and then it's going to
be all over the campsite where you were. And something
happened there and he got snatched up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think that's where That's what I immediately said. Okay,
they had a scent that was gone. That means he
was physically removed in a way where his skin wouldn't
be shedding out to leave scent, which would be in
an automobile. And then I was thinking in my head,
like how they detect that is, they talk about the
dogs that can pick up the scent, but it's because
they're going like the cone pattern, and they'll pick up
when the person got out of the car. So you'd
have to be somewhat relatively in the area, yeah, to still,
or the windows would have to be rolled down or something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel I feel like the effectiveness of scent
dogs ping pongs, and maybe it could just be that
some search and rescue have better scent dogs than others.
Like I assume that could be a thing, right, Like.
Speaker 3: I mean, they're they're trained to do it, So I
assume that there is there's some standard dogs are not
like robots. Yeah that every dog. Probably there's probably like
dogs that are better at it and dogs that are
worse at it.
Speaker 2: And there could be a train or good days smelling
if they're sick or something, and.
Speaker 3: I mean they're just let us. Yeah, I'm I'm assuming
there's a lot of variables in it. Probably, you know,
we should do a whole episode on dogs. We should
and we should get an expert that the shield. We
should get a dog in the studio. Let's get a
local dog we should know.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying she could try and find like a
local guy who does like somebody who does local that
cool search and rescue, and.
Speaker 3: We could like test the dog.
Speaker 2: Yeah, different scenarios just in our like small studio.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, go find this. We'll put like a sausage
in your pocket and have you go hide somewhere and
see if the dog can find you.
Speaker 2: I think, I think if you did that, I could
find you. But I'm I'm leaning towards foul play. But continue.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, so why the getting lost theory doesn't work
was it didn't fit his hunting style, so he wasn't
known to rome. He when he was not injured, he
would sit still. So he also had a bum knee,
so it really doesn't make sense that he would go
stamping around. And you know, the while the terrain is rugged,
it's not featureless. Like I said earlier, there's trails, roads,
you got the river nearby, those are all navigational anchors.
He would have been able to find his way back
to camp, especially if he was only fifty yards away.
And it's been sixteen years without finding a single item
of gear in a very recreationally active area of the forest,
that's a pretty extraordinary thing that nothing has been found. Now,
that doesn't mean someone didn't find a bow and just
kept it.
Speaker 2: I was saying, if you find it and just kept
it and just said like, oh, good find.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean though it's kind of risky just keeping
a firearm that you randomly find because you don't know
what was done with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you definitely, because I think there is protocol to
like bringing it to a station and if no one
claims that you can get it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, or if they run it and it comes back clean.
Because the worst thing it could happen for you if
you pick up a just a random firearm you find
is that firearm was used to commit a serious crime
and then you're found in possession of said firearm. Now
you are the suspect of that crime. Yeah, and the
people who come and get you don't know you. Yeah.
So that's a good piece of device for anyone who
may ever find a random firearm in the woods immediately
turn into the closest law enforcement. Yes, people because you
do not want to. Maybe don't touch it, get your
prints all over it. Do the thing they do in
CSI pick it up.
Speaker 2: With od or something and like put your yeah, pick
it up with a pencil, put it in a bag
or something.
Speaker 3: The worst thing that could happen to you is you
get framed for a crime that you didn't do. But
you yourself have the smoking gun in your possession. So yeah, yeah, no,
And now these are the not likely so voluntary disappearance
the family we Joe read what the daughter said about
making plans for the future. Yeah, he left his money,
id G GPS in his car, he had an injured knee,
but there was no evidence by police that show him
that he would do this, and he hadn't been he
hasn't been cited in sixteen years. So and finally, the
most interesting one that's not likely is the Pekos triangle,
which is a paranormal theory.
Speaker 2: Another triangle. Yes, there's always tryinggle. I think we might
have to do an episode on it. In the paphost triangle.
Speaker 3: Okay. Some attribute the disappearance to energy Vortex's portals, skin walkers,
or even alien abductions fueled by the cluster of disappearances
in the broader Pekost Wilderness and local folklore about strange
lights and electromagnetic anomalies.
Speaker 2: Ooh, I feel like we called them off the deep ends.
Maybe we should call them the politest possibility.
Speaker 3: The politest possibility is all the things that are not likely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's the politest possibility aliens and skin walkers.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, So obviously, why this theory doesn't work is
it you know, an equal or greater number of people
have gone missing and or have been found dead in
the wilderness is just nearby, especially the Black Range and
the Menzano Mountains, So the Pecos Wilderness is certainly not
the leader in disappearances in this area. The clustering effect
is likely a product of media media attention, particularly the
Missing form one, rather than genuine statistical anomalies. And Alan
Parcheco's investigation Elk Mountain reported equipment malfunctions, so Geiger counter camera,
cell phones malfunctioning, which her so this is a guy
who believes in the triangles. So he attributed this to
possible energy fields, but skeptics noted that equipment routinely fails
in rugged, remote mountainous terrain, which is common and not remarkable.
Speaker 2: So yeah, especially like when I go boundary waters with
a real compass, there's so much iron. Yeah, it can
throw off the measurement. Yeah, and you know cell phones,
that's like the whole thing of like close your eyes
and how many things are red in the room. Now
open them and now that now look around and close
your eyes. It's like, if you're looking for it, you're
going to see it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well and okay, and the final theory was then
his hunting friends were involved, and this was dismissed right away.
Both hunters were actually thoroughly investigated and cleared. There was
no motive ever identified for why his friends would want
to kill him, and the family, who obviously thinks it's
foul played, never pointed a finger at his friends, So yeah,
they were cleared pretty early on. That wasn't them. So
so where are you landing? Are you landing? And fall play? Honestly,
for this one, I think based on that the history
of the area and just the fact that he was
so close to camp and he had a bad leg,
so he was not like he was going to wander away,
and his whole style of hunting was he went to
a spot and sat there. He didn't move around a lot,
and that was when he didn't have a bum That
was when he didn't have a bum leg. And yeah,
so he's probably more likely to not move around with
his bad leg. He almost didn't even go on the
hunt because of his.
Speaker 2: And his blind was back in the car and he
ate the sandwich. Yeah, Like so he must like picked
it up, and you're not going to go to your
blind to hunt he has darkness is coming. No, it
sounded more like he was going to clean up his spot. Yeah,
and it for all intents and purposes he did, because
if it was deconstructed back in his jeep with some food, Like,
I feel like he was at the jeep and something happened.
Speaker 3: I do too, because he you know, he had the
half eaten sandwich was still there, So that to me
feels like he got back to his truck, put everything away.
He was hungry, he was having dinner, and then while
he was eating something happened.
Speaker 2: And the other guys weren't at camp, they weren't back.
It wouldn't have seen anything.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And like you said, that's why the scent dogs
didn't keep picking up scent further out because he only
went fifty yards out then came back. Yeah, I feel
like he got picked up. Yeah, and now that's interesting
that whoever picked him up didn't rob him. I guess
they took his guns and his bow, but that's yeah,
they left as I guess his wallet and stuff in
the car. But yeah, that's interesting. They didn't do any
skinwalkers maybe don't care about monetary Yeah, maybe not. They
you know, they didn't forensically sweep the truck, so they
don't know if they're prints on it. That's kind of
the thing there. It's like it's where they might have
blown it. And if it's a highly trafficked area, they're
not going to necessarily be able to pinpoint specific tracks
on a vehicle.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, if there's other people over the mountain. Yeah,
and for what it sounded like during hunting season, it's
heavily traffic.
Speaker 3: But then what is the motive for why they would
take him?
Speaker 2: So this is pure speculation, So please don't get mad,
But that's not possible, Like we're guessing here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I like I don't know, Like maybe like
someone was dawn off and they started you know, some
you can get into it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it could have been a dumb thing maybe
like drug runners or gun runners were driving by and
he said something, yeah, like.
Speaker 2: Maybe they're driving fast to slow down they like are
just a little punks. Yeah, and they got out and yeah,
oh really slowed out. Yeah, just some stupid interaction. That's
kind of like, that's what my gut's telling me. It
was just like some dumb thing where like wrong place,
wrong time. Not saying he's cocky or anything, but like
he's Tae Kwano, so he's probably not going to back
down from an aggressive thing, especially if he's got a firearm.
Like maybe it's if someone's like showing up. He's probably
probably a tough dude and he's not going to back down,
and it might have just went sideways. That's that was
like my gut. The other thing would be in this
because the dogs not finding a scent. I'm like, maybe
he did accidentally wander off when he got too dark
and was going the wrong way, But then it's like
what the dogs?
Speaker 3: Why would the scent stop? Yeah, so that's where I
don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm like think fil play, but I can't think of
a great reason why, Like just a really terrible situation.
Speaker 3: Where they didn't find any illicit drug growing operations in
the area when they were searching, and they didn't find that.
There was no sign of a struggle, So it's not
like he was shot or stabbed or something at his
truck and then taken because they would have found blood.
Speaker 2: They didn't mention any like big life insurance policies or
anything like that. So like that's see, that's where nothing
else fits. And that also kind of doesn't fit, but
it fits the most.
Speaker 3: All I can think of is there was some unsavory
type people coming down the road and there was some
type of altercation off probably off of some just stupid
like hey, slow down or something like that, and they
got out and it escalated to the point where I
don't know, ne'er do wells near doells. But again, if
you're drug running, gun run, and why are you going
to waste your time kidnapping a random dude?
Speaker 2: And then that's where I don't think. I don't think
it's an organized thing. I think it is a passion
spur of the moment, maybe a little out of hand.
Like so here, let me paint a picture. It starts
as something small, Yeah, maybe he can be a hot
head a little bit. You know, some people have their moments.
I've had a hot head moment. I'm a very calm
individual usually, but if someone rubs me the wrong way
and just the wrong time, Like what if he's got
his gun, he flashes his gun. Yeah, like and then
they and they it escalates or they flash their gun
and it's kind of all of a sudden, spirals knew
a thing where maybe they kill him and now they're panicking.
They load him in a car and drive off. I
don't know, like there wasn't blood it found. There wasn't
like signs of a scuffle or anything. But you know,
I don't know, Like that's that's all I can think of,
is just some weird crazy.
Speaker 3: It has to be something weird like that, because I
just don't see him walking very far, like out of
the search area.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why I like, it's stuck in my head
that he was removed from there.
Speaker 3: I mean, it honestly sounds like he went back to camp. Yeah,
like he was out hunting and then he came back,
was eating a sandwich and something happened. Yes, I'm like,
and it's a little shocking that the police didn't lean
into that more right away.
Speaker 2: They probably didn't think of it as like as like
a crime as a crime crime scene. Yeah, they probably went, oh,
he's missing, and they probably took it as that most
of the time. And then but I feel like to
the daughter's point, now it's too late that everything's contaminated.
Speaker 3: Wouldn't you maybe because we talk about these types of
cases every week. I feel like if I was an
investigator showing up and they're like, okay, yeah, this guy
in his sixties, bad leg. He walked fifty yards off trail.
It appears he came back to his truck, was eating,
and then midway through a sandwich is gone, Yeah, Like hmm.
Speaker 2: I think we we do have a bias towards yeah,
because even like the off the deep end stuff, it's like,
because we're doing a show, this is for entertainment, It's
it's like for us, you know, we're gravitating towards the
more pomp and circumstance.
Speaker 3: I feel like we're pretty grounded in our theories.
Speaker 2: Though we are pretty grounded, but I mean like it
is like that's why we we temper it when we
say off the deep end.
Speaker 3: But still like in a case like this. Okham's razor says, it's.
Speaker 2: Probably not an abduction and the thing because like that's
really out there, but like it seems like that makes
the most sense, so I'm leaning that way. But really, maybe.
Speaker 3: He got something like he got an elk, but it
didn't fall and he went after it. Yeah, and that's
where And maybe the scent dog was bad that day. Yeah,
maybe it was bad and he the elk went towards
the river. He got there with his bad leg, he slipped,
fell in and his body got carried miles away. Yeah,
I don't know that. I didn't even think of that
because I mean, if he got an elk, maybe he
was a bad shot that day and didn't it wasn't
a kill shot.
Speaker 2: It is even if it is, you gotta let a
bleed out, it's gonna go down, it's gonna go to ground.
Speaker 3: But a lot of times they will walk a distance
before they go down exactly, and the hunter will follow
after it and wait. So maybe he went in the
woods after it after a kill. But you think that
during the search they would find a massive elk that
was with an arrow in it, especially, Yeah, especially with
all the trails and stuff. Yeah, and if he had
shot an elk, there would be blood and after.
Speaker 2: His friends are shooting warning shots and he's lost and he's.
Speaker 3: So that's an interesting thing. When they shot that did
the two shots? They did? Hear two shots in the distance. Yeah,
and they weren't able to verify who that was or so,
I mean could see that could be him and Melcam's razor.
Is he just he shot an elk, it walked off,
he went after it and something happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and maybe that was him responding, but they couldn't
ascertain his position.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think it's funny because, as we always say, the
show ends the same way, but it's always different.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But thanks again for tuning into our show. We appreciate
you all for listening and sharing locations unknown with your
friends and family. Be sure to like us and follow
us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube, where you can
find the videos of each episode. Also, if you'd like
to support us monetarily, please visit our website or Facebook
store to buy some sweet Sweet swag. Additionally, you can
subscribe to a Patren account on YouTube, on Apple, anywhere
where you have access to subscriptions for additional shows for
paid customers only. And lastly, when enjoying the beauty of nature,
whether backpacking, camping, or simply taking a walk, always remember
to leave no trace. Thanks and we will see you
all next time.