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Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Siko's I am Dan Valley, coming

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at you as always with my certified fantabulous co host,

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mister Grant Hughes. It's the time you have all been

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waiting for. So you're welcome or we're sorry. Maybe you

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haven't been waiting for this, maybe you've been dreading it.

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Overreactions for every NBA team early into the season. We

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are closing out week two as we record this. This episode

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will be dropping on Saturday, November two. It is being

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courted just prior to games on Friday, November one, so

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keep that in mind before we get started. Grant, how

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the heck are you doing?

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Speaker 2: Ready to overreact to some stuff? I'll tell you that

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that's all. Although that's all we can do right now.

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I think, as evidenced by the fact that, like I

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had we put these together like three days ago, how

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many of these overreactions would be like a complete one

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to eighty from what they are now, because that's how

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quick things are changing.

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Speaker 1: Spoiler alert. On one of them, I had the Wizards

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were they were gonna Bobcat and finish last in offense

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and defense. Yeah, when I wrote it, they were twenty

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ninth in offense and thirtieth in defense. I feel very

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confident about where they're gonna end up on defense. Their

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offense is jumped to like sixteenth in points per possession

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over the course of two games. So that's how much

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things are changing. But that's the point. And but I

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get tired of having to couch everything with that's the point.

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I don't know how you approach this, but I view

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overreactions as these aren't necessarily things I believe with absolute conviction.

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But if the season ended right now, would these be true?

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Is kind of how I approached this, And that's kind

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of just the the purpose of this exercise, which will

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include at the end, if you submitted via discord, and

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I did throw it out on YouTube, your own overreaction.

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We picked the fifteen best that we will go through

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in a lightning round, and we had a weed out

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a few. It wasn't just the fifteen best, but we

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had a lot. But a lot of people have some

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nuggets opinions.

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Speaker 2: Grant Shop, Yeah, I kind of I would frame it

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as what's a semi crazy, but let's at least talk

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about it. Conclusion that you could draw from the limited

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games we've seen so far. You know, like maybe it's

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something you suspected before the season starts and you're getting

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like verification of it, or maybe it's like a totally

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out of the blue thing that like, well, look, I mean,

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here's what's happened so far, let's conclude this. So it's yeah,

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there's there's a lot of like it's it's kind of

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butts up against like a bold prediction slash like hot

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take thing where it's like, I'm not saying we're certainly

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not saying that we believe all of these things will hold,

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but like maybe and at least based on what we've

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seen so far, it's this, this is what you would

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believe potentially. That's that's the nature of an overreaction. It's

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like right in the world, it's right the name, like

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we're overreacting to what we've seen.

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Speaker 1: There will still be people who mistake this is How

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could they say that you know that's coming.

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Speaker 2: That's fine.

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Speaker 1: We begin, as the alphabet tends to begin with the

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Atlanta Hawks. You have the Eastern Conference grant this time

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you're gonna take us through I have the West. How

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should we do this? Should I be the one reading

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what you have or should if the East is yours.

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You should read it and throw it to me. I'm

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gonna let you decide that as well.

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Speaker 2: I'll just read it and then I can either expand

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on it or just kind of put it on a

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platter for you to react to. We'll keep it loose

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so for the Hawks, and this is pretty on brand

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for me, So apologies if it's not super based on

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these first five games that this team has played. But

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I think one thing you could overreact to based on

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the Hawks season to this point is there's no point

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in continuing with Trey Young as the centerpiece, and the

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thinking there is he's basically been as good as ever.

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The defense, though in Atlanta, remains terrible. That's just been

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a staple other than the one year I think they

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were sixth in that twenty twenty one season. Defense is bad. Uh,

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You've got all the all the reason in the world

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to see if you can turn Trey Young into those

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San Antonio owned picks or somebody else's first and just

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move forward with Resichet, with Jalen Johnson, with Dyson Daniels,

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who's looked very good. I just don't see a high

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enough ceiling because of the lack of defense in Atlanta

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to continue with the same plan that that's the overreaction. Uh,

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where where do you? Where do you take that?

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Speaker 1: I would I'd probably be more on board with it

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if I saw a pathway to them getting their own

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picks back as part of moving Tray Young. And I

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think actually they would have been more likely to get

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their own picks back. How they never extended Jalen Johnson

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and we're willing to trade him to get maybe san

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Antonio gives you one or two of those back, And

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that's just what I struggle with. I would be I

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understand your sentiment, but it's is there a team out

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there that is going to give you so many picks

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for Trey Young you don't care about your own even

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though you still have to care about your own Or

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can you go the route of we got someone who's

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a different type of all like kind of a challenge trade,

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so to speak, like what the Bucks did with Damian

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Lillard a little bit along those lines, And that's kind

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of what I really struggle with. I would say that

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if you wanted to go this direction, it would have

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to be you need to make a trade, like a

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bigger trade, like you're putting more first round picks on it, say,

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can you get Jimmy Butler out of Miami? So I

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would go, I just not that they're trapped with Trey Young,

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But I don't see the value in trading him when

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you don't have your own picks.

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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, like in my hypothetical, Oh, it's so easy.

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You just trade him to the Spurs, they give you

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back your picks, and everybody walks away like, no, of

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course that's not that simple. But yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's just sorry, you're running the Hawks and the Lakers

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give you their best package, which in terms of picks,

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where it's two draft picks, three swaps and maybe they're

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giving you Dalton Connect plus salary. As a Hawks team

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without your own picks, is that enough to trade Tray Young?

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I think you're running them, not the real life Hawks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think that is that illustrates the

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issue really well, because you know, you probably should just

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do that, except the bottoming out that you might be

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in line for just doesn't have the same payoff because

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you don't have your own picks. I still think I

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think it's there's two things that not having your own

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picks is a huge issue. In any kind of rebuild,

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Like that's why we lauded Brooklyn for getting those picks back,

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and now like everything makes sense again, your incentives are

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all aligned. But also there's a piece of it for me,

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and this might just be me with Trey Young, and

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it's just I I'm still unconvinced that so Trey Young

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has to be your centerpiece. I think that's just like

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that's the type of player he is, and I'm just

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not convinced that unless you have the absolute perfect team

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around him, that your ceiling is very high. Now, the

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twenty one conference finals thing like that that happened, that

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was a real thing, but that's pretty clearly the outlier

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so far. So I just am kind of like, I

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don't know, I do this too much, but I'm ready

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to bail on a situation if if I've got a

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no years of data that says like this is just

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there's no scenario where this is like a conference finals

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again or like championship roster, So like let's just try

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something different. Especially it'd be one thing if you were

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like the Hawks are winning forty nine games a year,

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but it's like they're just in the middle, you know, Like,

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so I probably am too ready to pull the ripcord

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on stuff like this, but that's kind of just that's

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a big factor, I think in my overreaction here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is probably one of our biggest disagreements ever,

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and we tend not to disagree too much, which might

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be a problem with this podcast. I just don't. I

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can't get there. But I think that's the point of

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the overreactions.

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Speaker 2: There you go mixed up.

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Speaker 1: You're a Boston Celtics. That's a good team to take

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ownership of. Not gonna lie easy enough.

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Speaker 2: The twenty five championship race is already over. The Celtics

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look stupid good. They're shooting a million threes. They're on

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pace to set the record. I don't, and I actually

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do think, like, would you be surprised if they didn't

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set the all time record for three point attempts at

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this point? Yes, yeah, I would be too, Like, I

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think that should be the assumption that they're just gonna

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set the record. They don't look like a team that

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has like a hangover championship malaise. Both Tatum and Brown

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seem pretty motivated. Thanks thanks Team USA for a couple

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you know, on both fronts. I guess yeah, like, this

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is obviously an overreaction, but because there are other teams

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and we're going to talk about a couple of them

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that are great, but man like Boston, just with or

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without Porzingis just does not look to have missed a

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beat and like kind of feels like uncommonly dialed in

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and motivated for a team that just came off a title.

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That's not always how it goes. So yeah, they're gonna

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run away.

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Speaker 1: With it there. If you had to even pick a

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concern with them. Aside from the existence, I think Dallas

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for sure, Cleveland, the way they're playing, we'll get to them.

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These are all teams will get to And of course, okay,

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see it's just like, okay, they're rim protection. Teams have

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shot really well at the rim against them. They've had

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some you know, why are you trying to get minutes

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with Luke Cornette and Xavier Tilman at the same time

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have not necessarily gone too well. Porzingis will come back

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at some point, even if he's playing fewer their jut

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this this is hyperbole because I think there are other

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teams that could win at all. But you can't talk

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me out of Boston being the favorites right now. Okay,

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see he probably still comes closest, but it's you have

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to default. This team is just look at you, right.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't know what else we need to say.

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Like the other element is like some of the teams

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in the East that we thought might be extra frisky

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or be a challenger, Like I don't know, Cleveland is

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clearly you know right there, but I don't know how

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seriously a lot of people take the Cavs as a

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playoff team. Won. Oh and then like your Phillies in

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Miami's in Indiana's and some of these other teams that

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you know, oh well, maybe one of them. It's like,

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I don't know. They got as many questions as answers

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to this point.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm l If I get a breaking news item,

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we'll get to down the line with the team we're onto,

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the Brooklyn Netts. In the meantime, what do we got? Grant?

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Speaker 2: We got Cam Thomas is going to average over thirty

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a game. That's a big deal because it doesn't happen often.

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There have been a handful that have done it before

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their age twenty four seasons. So that's Bob McAdoo, Oscar Robertson,

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Kareem Rick Berry, Walt Bellamy, Wilt Chamberlain. So we're still like,

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just write all those guys off because that's a thousand

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years ago and the game was different, so more more modern,

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and Jerry West to also among more modern modern guys imposterous.

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I'm sorry, Michael Jordan, t mak Lebron Durant, Luca So.

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Cam Thomas's name is very much one of those which

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one of these doesn't belong if you throw him on

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the list. But situation in Brooklyn, somebody's got to shoot it.

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Cam Johnson loves to shoot it. Dan. I don't know

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if you knew that about him and frisky Nets team

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so far, by the way, but I think Thomas he's

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not He's under thirty at the moment, but not by much,

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and he's got a lot more room to start gunning

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once the Nets trade people.

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Speaker 1: And you know who they need to trade the most.

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This was not a been my prediction, and maybe it

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should have been based off Olympics. Dennis Shruder needs to

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go right.

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Speaker 2: Now now that value at getting higher. He had like

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fourteen assists the other night, He's had he like thirteen points.

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In the opener, and then it's been over twenty he's

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got a thirty point game already, just like this trade

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him immediately.

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Speaker 1: He's been outrageously good, and so he's gotta go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, made more than half his threes on the air.

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That's yeah, Yeah, that's a cell high situation.

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Speaker 1: I ultimately don't think he Cam Thomas will get here

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because of Dennis Shooter. But if you told me the

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Nets were either going to put Dennis Shooter on a

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minute's cap or he gets traded by let's say, Thanksgiving,

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I might kind of be like, you know what, like

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Cam Thomas might do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, honestly, this is still a good overreaction.

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But like if if we had gotten to this point

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in the season and he was averaging like thirty eight

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points a game right now, nobody would be like, I

248
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can't believe it. It would just be like, yeah, that's

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all right, that's a little more than I would have thought.

250
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But that's about right for what we imagine this NETS

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team doing.

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Speaker 1: The Charlotte Hornets. This one's spicy.

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Speaker 2: This one's spicy. This one though, I mean, I'm just

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glad we're talking about it this way. LaMelo ball is

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totally gonna make an All NBA team overreaction obviously, But

256
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what I would say is this is kind of where

257
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like you would have expected him to be optimistically, I suppose,

258
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But when you go Rookie of the Year, All Star

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in seasons one and two, and then your numbers are

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pretty darn good still in year three, but you get

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hurt and then year four is lost, Like so now

262
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you're you're in the All NBA running That's like, oh yeah, okay,

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that's that's the trajectory that his first two seasons just

264
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like suggested, was coming. So in a weird way, like, yeah,

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he's lost two years basically fifty eight games across two

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seasons because of ankle injuries that he played in. But

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this is like, in a weird way, not shocking that

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he's on pace to average twenty five and seven with

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sixty percent try shooting with like which nobody does. Basically

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like Lebron Harden, Yokich, Dame Luca Jordan Byrd, that's your list.

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Speaker 1: That's and that's that's not one of those, okay, LaMelo

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is the one that doesn't belong. If you even make

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that list once though, that is insane.

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Speaker 2: It is and it's like, and the numbers are there

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team wise too, because you look at the on again,

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take the on off splits with an even bigger grain

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of salt because you're slicing the sample in half in

278
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a lot of cases. But the Hornets offense just like,

279
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it's number four in the league right now, and it's

280
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world's better in terms of effective field goal percentage and

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turnover rate, like one's up, ones down, and it's easy

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to tell which when Lamel is on the floor, and

283
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so it's like he's it's the individual numbers and it's

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the driving success at the thing he's supposed to drive

285
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success at, which is like just good efficient offense. So

286
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I mean, you know, all NBA, especially for a guard,

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is extremely difficult, is it today? Like he's just he's

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he's there, he's playing at that level.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's easier though, because they got rid

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of positions for guards now, I'd say it's probably gotten

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harder for bigs, right and easy?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, not that else stupid. It used to

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be harder for guards. I forgot the positionless thing, which

294
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is nuts because it's been like two years of that,

295
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but still for him to crack that group, that's like

296
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that's something to do it coming off to basically lost

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seasons and.

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Speaker 1: What would you be honest question, what are you more

299
00:14:13,799 --> 00:14:16,639
worried about him not hitting? I would say it's probably

300
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the efficiency, Like seven assists is low for him, right

301
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so they have other ball handlers in there, which helps.

302
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,480
But I don't see him dropping below maybe intermittently, but

303
00:14:26,519 --> 00:14:30,080
he's gonna average over seven assists. He's comfortably over twenty

304
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,759
five points right now. It's the efficiency, and he's taken

305
00:14:32,799 --> 00:14:34,799
so many three's that you could see it pull back.

306
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:36,639
But I think the biggest difference we've seen in his

307
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,440
game last year's rim pressure isn't technically there, and that

308
00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,320
was an abbreviated season because he was dealing with another

309
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:47,440
ankle injury. But like the downhill attacking has stuck. He's

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averaging almost seventeen drives per thirty six minutes, which is

311
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right in line with where he was last year, and

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he just seems he doesn't necessarily look a lot stronger.

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Maybe people who've watched him more closely, but it feels

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like he's playing into through contact better and he shooting

315
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,000
the number of shooting fouls he's drawing is through the

316
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roof and so if you're gonna get easier opportunities at

317
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,639
the foul line, that one, it not only props up

318
00:15:09,639 --> 00:15:13,039
your scoring, it props up your efficiency. And so I

319
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:15,240
think if you had to predict right now, so the

320
00:15:15,279 --> 00:15:17,759
all NBA thing is what spicy, But if those are

321
00:15:17,759 --> 00:15:20,200
the benchmarks, like if he's averaging twenty five and seven

322
00:15:20,639 --> 00:15:24,399
on sixty plus true shooting, Like if if I had

323
00:15:24,399 --> 00:15:26,840
to predict it right now, I think that's going to hold.

324
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Like I think he's gonna end up with that benchmark

325
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stat line.

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Speaker 2: I would say the true shooting is the one I'd

327
00:15:34,039 --> 00:15:36,120
be a little skeptical of. He's he's been in the

328
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,759
like fifty eight to fifty nine range. I think, you know,

329
00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,399
a couple times over his career. So it's not like

330
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,399
a huge spike. It's just like he's shooting twelve three

331
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:45,960
is a game, which is a career high by like

332
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,200
a mile. He's getting to the foul line over six

333
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,440
times a game, which for him, like with his game,

334
00:15:50,519 --> 00:15:53,240
that's maybe the free throw attempts, Maybe the free throw

335
00:15:53,279 --> 00:15:56,360
attempts and the threes, like maybe you lose some accuracy

336
00:15:56,399 --> 00:15:58,639
with that much volume from three, and maybe the free

337
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throw attempts dip and that knocks you down below sixty percent.

338
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,519
But it's like, based on his career numbers, I know

339
00:16:04,519 --> 00:16:08,240
you're adding volume, Like sixty percent isn't way beyond the

340
00:16:08,279 --> 00:16:10,799
realm of like what he could have done in the past. Like,

341
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,519
so it's not a huge leap. I don't think just

342
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,919
to say that he'll hold that twenty five seven and

343
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,000
sixty percent, like that's that's that would be an incredible

344
00:16:21,399 --> 00:16:23,799
but it's not. It's not like beyond him. I don't think.

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Speaker 1: I would still say, and I don't know if this

346
00:16:25,399 --> 00:16:28,320
is kind of baked into just the experience, you would

347
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,120
still like to see the turnovers come down. Right now,

348
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,039
he is posting a career high turnover rate. It's almost

349
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,320
on twenty percent of his possession. Liked, yeah, I would

350
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:38,919
assume that might come down at some point, and even

351
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,000
if it doesn't, this number is definitely coming down. He's

352
00:16:42,039 --> 00:16:44,480
really just been destroying defenses out of the pick and roll.

353
00:16:44,759 --> 00:16:48,039
He's scoring one point one four points per possession out

354
00:16:48,039 --> 00:16:50,120
of the pick and roll. That is in the eighty

355
00:16:50,159 --> 00:16:53,159
second percentile, but like one point one four points as

356
00:16:53,159 --> 00:16:56,480
the scorer out of the pick and roll is just bonkers,

357
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and this is someone who I think is finally I

358
00:16:59,799 --> 00:17:01,879
still worry about his finishing at the rim, Like it

359
00:17:01,879 --> 00:17:04,000
feels like he's getting closer to the basket. And maybe

360
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:05,880
it's some of that's like the short mid range stuff,

361
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,480
but he feels more of like in every level threat

362
00:17:09,759 --> 00:17:13,039
than ever before when you watch him, And I don't

363
00:17:13,039 --> 00:17:15,440
know if it's because it was a different coaching staff

364
00:17:15,519 --> 00:17:16,839
last year, and I think we're seeing a lot of

365
00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:20,480
the same stuff this year, So I don't know. Is

366
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:22,839
it have the Charlotte Hornets unlocked him as he unlocked

367
00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:24,920
something within himself. But when I watch him, if you

368
00:17:25,039 --> 00:17:27,680
rewind to a season and a half ago, it feels

369
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:31,599
like I'm watching a materially different, more lethal player on

370
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,039
the offensive end, and it doesn't feel I know a

371
00:17:34,079 --> 00:17:35,319
lot of people like to think he has a lot

372
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,440
of junk volume. It's almost I'm not comparing the two.

373
00:17:39,319 --> 00:17:42,599
Some of the shots he takes, it's because he makes them.

374
00:17:42,799 --> 00:17:46,519
This is like Steph Curry territory of no most players

375
00:17:46,519 --> 00:17:49,559
shouldn't take those. But when you're looking at Charlotte right now, Okay,

376
00:17:49,559 --> 00:17:52,839
Trey Man going off great, when Brendan Miller's healthy again,

377
00:17:53,079 --> 00:17:55,079
you have him great, Like you're not like, are you

378
00:17:55,319 --> 00:17:58,400
up set because Miles Bridges or Josh Green isn't getting

379
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,680
more certain looks? No, I don't fucking care, So I

380
00:18:01,839 --> 00:18:05,440
just I'm watching him and if the season ended today,

381
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:07,759
it might just be Raacy, but I'm putting him on

382
00:18:07,799 --> 00:18:08,839
All NBA team.

383
00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:11,759
Speaker 2: I think one of the things I really am appreciating

384
00:18:11,799 --> 00:18:15,559
more about him is like you talk about three level scorers,

385
00:18:15,599 --> 00:18:17,400
like he's one of those guys that almost has a

386
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,839
fourth because he will spot up so far beyond the

387
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,559
line when he's off the ball, and it's like we

388
00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:25,920
I don't know, maybe this is just us or just me,

389
00:18:26,079 --> 00:18:27,559
Like I would always think about, like you know what

390
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,440
I love about Eric Gordon is or like Ryan Anderson

391
00:18:30,519 --> 00:18:32,039
used to do this. It's just like they're like three

392
00:18:32,079 --> 00:18:34,839
steps behind the line and you're just like they will

393
00:18:34,839 --> 00:18:37,319
shoot it, so you have to be out that much farther.

394
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,079
And if you're worried about like no, no, not saying

395
00:18:40,079 --> 00:18:41,799
anyone is still doing this in a serious way, but

396
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,680
like I was, is he gonna is Brandon Miller really

397
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,359
gonna like get an opportunity to do Yeah, yeah he will,

398
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,440
and he might even have a better opportunity than with

399
00:18:49,519 --> 00:18:53,519
most other stars, because like LaMelo off, the ball has

400
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,079
immense value standing still because of where he's willing to

401
00:18:57,079 --> 00:19:00,400
shoot it from. So like that that just makes fits

402
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,920
easier with everyone. Not everyone can run around like Steph

403
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,279
Curry to invoke the name you just mentioned, Like there's

404
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,200
so much offensive juice if you just have someone that

405
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,519
will shoot it from thirty feet like with you know,

406
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,000
like like it's a normal shot, not like a oh

407
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,599
it's a desperation thing, which LaMelo really will do. He

408
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:19,519
spots up so far behind the arc.

409
00:19:20,039 --> 00:19:22,359
Speaker 1: I think if I had to pick out what might be,

410
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:24,119
and I don't even know if it's the most unsustainable

411
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,279
because it's already started dropping. Is just the decision making

412
00:19:27,279 --> 00:19:28,880
when it comes to his shots inside the arch, he

413
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,400
is shooting a pretty low percentage again at the rim

414
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,839
after being fairly high, and he's propped up his two

415
00:19:33,839 --> 00:19:36,519
point percentage. If he's hitting fifty percent of his twos,

416
00:19:36,839 --> 00:19:39,359
you're okay with that, Like right now it's propped up.

417
00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:41,799
I think he's ten of eighteen from float range. Yeah,

418
00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:44,480
those if those aren't going to continue to fall at

419
00:19:44,519 --> 00:19:47,880
a ridiculous clip, are you gonna get because the Hornets have.

420
00:19:48,279 --> 00:19:49,960
They're not a finished team, but I think they have

421
00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,319
the pathways. You don't look at them. Yeah, the defenses

422
00:19:53,319 --> 00:19:56,039
are overreacting and they're getting after him, but I haven't

423
00:19:56,039 --> 00:19:58,880
watched him and thought, oh, he can't navigate this, And

424
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:00,920
so I think I'm still that he can be a

425
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,519
better finisher at the rim. But he is wildly inconsistent

426
00:20:03,759 --> 00:20:05,960
when it kind of comes to his takeoff points and

427
00:20:06,039 --> 00:20:09,079
angles around the basket, and that's still something that he

428
00:20:09,319 --> 00:20:12,359
would need to work on. And again, I'm still saying this.

429
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,559
There's been some pullback from where he was at, like

430
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:16,839
in the first couple games of the season, and I

431
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,039
still think this is someone who's all NBA caliber. I

432
00:20:20,079 --> 00:20:21,680
don't know if you have any additional thoughts on that.

433
00:20:21,759 --> 00:20:24,400
My follow up question would also be how much is

434
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,599
he held back by Charlotte's inevitable record to wherever they are,

435
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:30,240
because there, whether you think they're going to go for

436
00:20:30,319 --> 00:20:33,519
it or tear it down or eventually lean into development, whatever,

437
00:20:34,079 --> 00:20:36,680
they're probably going to be a playing team at best.

438
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,839
And when you don't kind of have the cachet of

439
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,920
a Lebron or a step can you still make an

440
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,359
All NBA team? Coming off one of those squads.

441
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:47,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that is a hindrance, But I would

442
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,759
also say, like there's a path towards like sort of

443
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,079
kind of recognition you would need for an All NBA

444
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,960
nod if say Charlotte does stick as a top five offense,

445
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,559
which like, actually it could because it's worth now I

446
00:21:00,559 --> 00:21:02,680
think I already mentioned that, but like they're turning the

447
00:21:02,759 --> 00:21:06,319
part of this is LaMelo. They're turning it over seventeen percent,

448
00:21:06,319 --> 00:21:08,359
almost eighteen percent of the time, which is a bottom

449
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,799
three figure in the league. So like cut that to

450
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,000
a league average turnover rate, and then how good is

451
00:21:13,039 --> 00:21:15,240
this offense? So like, if if he's viewed as the

452
00:21:15,319 --> 00:21:18,039
driver of a top five offense.

453
00:21:17,799 --> 00:21:20,400
Speaker 1: Do you know why he's the driver? Because their offense

454
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,319
drops by sixteen point five point hundred posessions when he's

455
00:21:23,319 --> 00:21:25,359
off the floor, So we absolutely is driving.

456
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, you get a little bit of the Jokic kate.

457
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,240
You know, we love the on off stuff for for like,

458
00:21:30,799 --> 00:21:32,680
awards discussions actually left.

459
00:21:32,599 --> 00:21:35,079
Speaker 1: Them ten games into the season, right, Yeah, it's even better.

460
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,160
Speaker 2: But but yeah, like it'll be harder than it will

461
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,240
be if you're on a top four seed in either conference. Obviously,

462
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,680
but but if he's you know it, like, let's say

463
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:46,960
this is a weird hypothetical, but let's say Tyre's Haliburton

464
00:21:47,039 --> 00:21:50,119
last year had stayed healthy and the Pacers were first

465
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,720
or second in offense, but they won forty two games.

466
00:21:54,039 --> 00:21:55,799
I think he's you know, that would still be like

467
00:21:55,839 --> 00:21:58,960
an All NBA season because it's just like, oh, this

468
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,240
guy is running one of the best attacks in the league,

469
00:22:01,279 --> 00:22:03,440
and he's clearly the reason it works. Like you could

470
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,200
apply some of that same logic to LaMelo.

471
00:22:06,279 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 1: I think I think the only foil to this would

472
00:22:09,279 --> 00:22:11,640
be the claim if you asked me right now to

473
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,440
build my all NBA teams right now, I'm kind of

474
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,720
in the mode of I'm gonna call it's I'm gonna

475
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:20,319
call fifteen players top ten players right now. Maybe it

476
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:21,599
is weird at that time of the year, but I

477
00:22:21,599 --> 00:22:24,039
think I would say it's been way more of an

478
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,279
encouraging start for LaMelo than not, especially if you're a maner,

479
00:22:27,279 --> 00:22:30,599
you or the organization absolutely, are you ready to go

480
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,200
to our next team, which is still yours?

481
00:22:32,279 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 2: I love this On this early East run, Zach Lavine

482
00:22:35,519 --> 00:22:39,480
Dan has is more tradable than ever following his injured

483
00:22:39,599 --> 00:22:40,599
spreen day seed joint.

484
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.

485
00:22:42,519 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 2: Do you know how bad that is? How long we're

486
00:22:44,279 --> 00:22:45,559
talking it was.

487
00:22:45,759 --> 00:22:47,519
Speaker 1: I think two weeks it looked like it was gonna

488
00:22:47,519 --> 00:22:49,119
be ten to fourteen days is what I saw. Maybe

489
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,000
I'm misremembering that. I think that probably makes it a

490
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,640
little bit. Oh he's injured again, but he was just

491
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,160
playing so well. I think I would agree. If you're

492
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,079
a team, especially if you're kind of looking at just

493
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,480
like early season panic, if you're the Pelicans, you got

494
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,680
to at least be thinking a little bit about, Wow,

495
00:23:04,799 --> 00:23:08,200
man Zach Will being looked pretty fucking good here right now.

496
00:23:08,519 --> 00:23:11,440
So I think I would agree, and I would just

497
00:23:11,519 --> 00:23:14,440
say that, Okay, the passing and table setting is down.

498
00:23:14,599 --> 00:23:16,240
That's almost a good thing because I don't think you

499
00:23:16,279 --> 00:23:19,799
want him shouldering that responsibility. And so having Josh Gideon,

500
00:23:19,839 --> 00:23:22,680
addition all these other guards has probably helped him in

501
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,240
that regard as well. And I think what we've seen

502
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,599
from him is that, and he's doing it as kind

503
00:23:27,599 --> 00:23:30,759
of the like the one point five, because he's he

504
00:23:30,839 --> 00:23:32,559
is the number one option, but he's not always going

505
00:23:32,599 --> 00:23:35,799
to be driving the offense the way he's playing one.

506
00:23:35,839 --> 00:23:38,559
It's encouraging because he has the same level to me,

507
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,000
at least of just like pre of injuries last year,

508
00:23:42,079 --> 00:23:43,839
like the same level of pop and thrust if he

509
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,799
wants to get up or attack on the ball. But

510
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,240
also just the jumpers are falling on ball off ball,

511
00:23:49,279 --> 00:23:51,920
they're going in and you look at that and you say, well,

512
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,039
what if we made him a decided number two option,

513
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,759
or in some cases the decided number three option.

514
00:23:58,319 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Yeah, no, I think I kind of

515
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,240
thought this was gonna happen because, like I mean just

516
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,960
talking about you know, where his trade value was last year,

517
00:24:08,079 --> 00:24:09,839
six months ago, whatever. It was just like it was

518
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:11,839
a joke, right, We like we were coming up with

519
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,720
synonyms for like barren and desolate because that was how

520
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,519
the trade market was described for him. This is just

521
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,759
like the ac injury aside, Like this is just Zach

522
00:24:21,839 --> 00:24:24,759
Levine being zach Lavine again and everybody looking at and

523
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,039
be like, yeah, that's not perfect, but man, that guy's

524
00:24:27,079 --> 00:24:30,759
like he's on fifty forty eighty right now, and he's

525
00:24:30,759 --> 00:24:32,759
done that before, by the way, over a full season.

526
00:24:32,839 --> 00:24:37,119
So like he just everybody the downsides are understood, the health,

527
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,839
the defense, the like tunnel vision, like last resort passing

528
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,279
that gets you assists but isn't like a driver of

529
00:24:43,839 --> 00:24:45,960
like oh, this offense is humming because zach Levine is

530
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,519
on the ball, But like elite three point shooter off

531
00:24:49,519 --> 00:24:52,839
the catcher, off movement, good finisher just is gonna get

532
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,680
you twenty three, twenty five a game efficiently, Like that's

533
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,720
that's a commodity, Like that's something you should give up

534
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,079
as to get even if there's one hundred and thirty

535
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,720
eight or whatever a million left over the next three years,

536
00:25:04,759 --> 00:25:07,880
Like that's that's that's like a fair value. I would

537
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,119
say if you're if you need zach Lavine to be

538
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,000
your third best scorer, like that's because who will crush

539
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:13,400
it at that?

540
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: Can I ask you a question? Yes, So I do

541
00:25:17,039 --> 00:25:19,279
think it's gotten a little harder to maybe spot trade

542
00:25:19,319 --> 00:25:22,599
destinations where Orlando following the band Carro injury. I don't

543
00:25:22,599 --> 00:25:24,039
know if it makes them more or less likely to

544
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,359
make a trade, And we'll get into that in a

545
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,519
little bit, but also the salary match, and they could

546
00:25:27,559 --> 00:25:30,359
still get there, but it's a little bit weirder because

547
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,480
looking at their future books, they're probably gonna be less

548
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,680
inclined to want someone with his size on it after

549
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,000
paying Fronds and Sugs what they did, and those deals

550
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,160
were well, the Sugs deal was fine. It would you

551
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,079
rather have? And also the Lakers, by the way, what

552
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,160
I still think? So I have two questions, would you

553
00:25:45,319 --> 00:25:47,640
just if it's not costing you a shit ton of

554
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,119
draft equity or any at all, would you just take

555
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,119
on Zach Lavine knowing that right now your tenth in

556
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,640
offense and lean all the way into like, if d

557
00:25:54,759 --> 00:25:56,640
Lo's going out, we're just gonna upgrade kind of the

558
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,079
de Lo spot there and we're gonna be the fifth

559
00:25:59,079 --> 00:26:01,720
best offense or something. The defense might drop a spot

560
00:26:01,799 --> 00:26:04,119
or two. Does it Does the Lakers start to the

561
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,680
season make them less in need of I don't know

562
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,480
that he was ever in need, but like, does Zach

563
00:26:09,559 --> 00:26:12,440
Lavine become less of an appealing trade target for them

564
00:26:12,519 --> 00:26:13,079
right now.

565
00:26:14,039 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 2: Because they're playing fine on offense or because they're playing their.

566
00:26:17,599 --> 00:26:20,559
Speaker 1: Tenth as we record this? My rationale is no, because

567
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,759
I do think come playoff time, they need to upgrade

568
00:26:23,839 --> 00:26:26,680
over the player that Delo is right now, but also

569
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,240
the player that Delo has been in the postseason.

570
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I still just well, the thing is like,

571
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,440
it can't just be Delo, right, so unless it's gonna

572
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,000
also be you can I think for the Lakers for

573
00:26:39,039 --> 00:26:41,359
it to make sense, if you just go Zach Lavine

574
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,119
takes Delos spot, then like I'm on board. I'm good

575
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,440
with that. But if it's if you have to include someone,

576
00:26:46,559 --> 00:26:48,240
I don't think Austin Reeves would be on the table

577
00:26:48,279 --> 00:26:50,960
anymore just because he's like, arguably.

578
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 1: Ruey can't even be on the table right.

579
00:26:53,079 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 2: Ruey's been good, So like, I think from that perspective,

580
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,480
it makes a trade less likely or less potentially beneficial,

581
00:26:59,559 --> 00:27:02,359
just because unless the Bulls are willing to just take

582
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,799
back your Vanderbilts and Vincent's and whatever. And Reddick still does,

583
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:07,440
by the way, seem to like gave Vincent a lot

584
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,720
even though he hasn't been very good, I think it's

585
00:27:09,759 --> 00:27:12,640
probably less likely. But for Orlando, I mean, we should

586
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,680
just save it for there. But like, I don't know,

587
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,279
there are a lot of teams that I think Levine

588
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:18,680
would make a lot of sense for this.

589
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: This was my actual question. I didn't anticipate talking about

590
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:22,720
the Lakers, and I'm sorry to keep a hung up on

591
00:27:22,759 --> 00:27:26,720
the Bulls. Would you rather right now have Zach Levine

592
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,559
or Jamal Murray.

593
00:27:29,839 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 2: Oh wow, I hate that. That's a good question. And

594
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,359
I'm if I'm the Nuggets.

595
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 1: Or just like a chance honestly, Like you could do

596
00:27:42,279 --> 00:27:45,960
Zeke Naugy, Jamal Murray smaller salary X if you want to,

597
00:27:46,319 --> 00:27:50,039
you know, take back less than you're sending out. Would

598
00:27:50,079 --> 00:27:50,559
you do it?

599
00:27:51,279 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 2: No?

600
00:27:51,519 --> 00:27:54,319
Speaker 1: Picks me if you're in the Bulls, Why would you

601
00:27:54,319 --> 00:27:56,160
do that? Because you've Josh Giddy. But maybe there's a

602
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,319
third team, but in a vacuum.

603
00:27:58,519 --> 00:28:02,599
Speaker 2: Just from Denver, just from Denver's perspective, I don't Well,

604
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,440
I don't First of all, I don't think Denver would

605
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,720
do it because I just think they'll Jamal is gonna

606
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,480
figure it out. He's proven it in the playoffs before

607
00:28:08,839 --> 00:28:11,640
you know, on and on. It's not a ridiculous I

608
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:13,960
don't think I do it if I'm Denver. But I

609
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,119
don't know if that's the right decision. Does that make sense?

610
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,160
Like I think there's a case to be made that

611
00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:23,240
Levine would just be unless Murray finds it again, Levine

612
00:28:23,319 --> 00:28:25,640
might just be like the safer bet, which is crazy

613
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:26,000
to say.

614
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,039
Speaker 1: I'm probably with you. I wouldn't do it. I think

615
00:28:28,079 --> 00:28:30,440
there's a case, but playoffs, we just don't have the

616
00:28:30,519 --> 00:28:32,960
Zack Lavine resume in the playoffs to say we've seen

617
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,799
Jamal Murray do it, and then Zaq Lavine isn't more

618
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,240
likely to make a lineup without NIKOLEA. Jokic better than

619
00:28:39,359 --> 00:28:39,920
Jamal Murray.

620
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 2: I don't think no, But counterpoint, we also have not

621
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,319
seen zach Lavine play with Jokic, Like, who knows what

622
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:47,400
extra level.

623
00:28:47,319 --> 00:28:49,759
Speaker 1: Of the Bulls have him cutting already? Imagine what Joki

624
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:50,640
is going to have him doing.

625
00:28:51,119 --> 00:28:51,559
Speaker 2: Amazing.

626
00:28:51,759 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: Grant this next team, it's still your team.

627
00:28:54,839 --> 00:28:59,319
Speaker 2: I love this one, hey, Dan. The Cleveland Cavaliers familiar

628
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,440
meet the actual second best team in the East, which,

629
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:07,039
by the way, was kind of our thought before the season,

630
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,160
right like why it was more of like a why

631
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,599
isn't it them and the five and oh start? Uh

632
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,680
is kind of the validation of like, oh no, it

633
00:29:15,799 --> 00:29:19,079
actually it just is. The defense is amazing. Evan Mobley

634
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,519
is you know, hasn't had like this crazy statistical eruption,

635
00:29:22,599 --> 00:29:26,240
but is playing very differently in all of the best ways. Uh,

636
00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:29,559
doing more on the ball, aggressive, like finishing with like

637
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,559
much more force, just more of an attack mode. You

638
00:29:32,599 --> 00:29:36,880
know mentality. He I like it's funny, like, when's it

639
00:29:37,039 --> 00:29:39,640
ever gonna be enough in terms of like the Evan

640
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,000
Mobley growth for us that have just been begging for

641
00:29:42,119 --> 00:29:45,039
the leap, I think it's just the incremental improvement just

642
00:29:45,119 --> 00:29:47,279
keeps happening and this is where we are now. So

643
00:29:47,319 --> 00:29:50,400
like Darius Garland looks way better. I like, which, by

644
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,400
the way, another easy one, like the guy broke his

645
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,240
jaw and lost a ton of weight because he couldn't

646
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,400
eat for like of course he wasn't himself.

647
00:29:56,519 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: The roster was just banged up too.

648
00:29:58,359 --> 00:30:01,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you got Dan way back, baby, like everything

649
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,920
everything works? Uh yeah, no, I think did.

650
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,599
Speaker 1: You know I should dd Wade six ' ten? Yeah?

651
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 2: Man, he's he's huge.

652
00:30:09,279 --> 00:30:10,279
Speaker 1: I don't even six eight.

653
00:30:10,559 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 2: No, he's huge. Like it's almost like, uh, you think

654
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,279
of him as a four, but he really can't guard threes,

655
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,799
so like you're so therefore you're a three. Yeah. The

656
00:30:20,839 --> 00:30:23,160
Cavs are really good. I think all the Kenny Atkinson

657
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,599
benefits seem to be manifesting, and their best guys are

658
00:30:26,599 --> 00:30:30,039
healthy and Evan Mobley's better, so like, yeah, there might

659
00:30:30,079 --> 00:30:32,480
be teams with higher playoff ceilings, but just at the moment,

660
00:30:32,519 --> 00:30:34,559
like these guys are these guys are wired tight.

661
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,559
Speaker 1: They I think if you had to say, if I

662
00:30:37,599 --> 00:30:41,000
told you there are only four championship contenders in the

663
00:30:41,079 --> 00:30:45,160
NBA right now, you would go Boston, you would go, Okay, See,

664
00:30:45,759 --> 00:30:47,759
it might be arguable after that, like if you want

665
00:30:47,759 --> 00:30:49,440
to really say the Warriors right now, Grant you can

666
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,240
make it. He would probably be given Eve.

667
00:30:51,119 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 2: And I don't want to say that. Yeah, Dallas would

668
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,559
be up there and then Cleveland. Yeah, I mean, well

669
00:30:57,079 --> 00:30:59,720
that that is another question though, like do you now

670
00:31:00,039 --> 00:31:01,839
we're just trying to overreact, so let's not get too

671
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,480
rational here, but like do you do you still hold

672
00:31:05,599 --> 00:31:08,680
reservations about like, Okay, is this gonna work in the playoffs?

673
00:31:08,759 --> 00:31:10,359
Like is there any of that because we always do

674
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:11,319
that with a team like this.

675
00:31:11,759 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'm curious to see if defense is are

676
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,880
gonna change, Like they have Jared Allen in the corner

677
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:17,559
a lot right now, and I'm just wondering, like their

678
00:31:17,599 --> 00:31:19,799
defense is gonna change a lot more and load up

679
00:31:19,839 --> 00:31:23,039
even more aggressively in the playoffs. But we've also seen

680
00:31:23,119 --> 00:31:26,559
that they can close differently if they have to, And

681
00:31:26,839 --> 00:31:29,599
the other thing I will be watching is just Evan Mobley.

682
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,920
So to your point about him playing differently, I think

683
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:33,839
the biggest difference we've seen it's not like, oh, they're

684
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:35,160
going to slow it down and throw it to him

685
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,839
down low. It's no, he's averaging eleven point one drives

686
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:39,960
per thirty six minutes. Grant he was at like four

687
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:40,559
point seven.

688
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:42,839
Speaker 2: Like he's just taking it to the basket now, and

689
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:44,319
I want.

690
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: To see more playmaking out of those drives from him now,

691
00:31:47,359 --> 00:31:50,200
But like, it's not all gonna happen at once. So

692
00:31:50,799 --> 00:31:52,960
I'm I think you still have to be reserved just

693
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,319
because it's it's new, like this is not that this well,

694
00:31:55,359 --> 00:31:57,720
I mean, they were good their first year, but we've

695
00:31:57,759 --> 00:31:59,359
seen them. They were good their first year, fell a

696
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,200
part in the playoff last year, there was all this

697
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,079
stuff going on. They still weren't great in the playoffs.

698
00:32:03,079 --> 00:32:05,680
But I don't I can't remember where we had them

699
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,640
in our Eastern Conference standings. I could probably look it

700
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,920
up really quick to start the year, but they should

701
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,440
have absolutely positively been talked about more as oh, this

702
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:16,920
team could potentially be the two seed in the East.

703
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:18,680
And I think as a podcast we did a good

704
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,880
job giving them that respect, But there were way too

705
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,960
many people that were just like, okay, Philly, Milwaukee, New

706
00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:26,720
York and Boston and then everybody else.

707
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the upside was just there and it

708
00:32:29,119 --> 00:32:31,480
was easy upside. They'll be healthy, they have a better coach,

709
00:32:32,279 --> 00:32:34,079
some of their young guys might get better. Like, that's

710
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:35,240
just okay, bang bang ba.

711
00:32:35,319 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: What the team very quickly before we move on, and

712
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,880
now it's going to be my turn. That's unfortunate. What's

713
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,079
the team that is okay? Well, this team might just

714
00:32:43,119 --> 00:32:45,480
catch them. You don't get to say, Philly, I'm not

715
00:32:45,559 --> 00:32:47,880
yelling at you, but I'm yelling at everybody. Philly's not

716
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:48,759
an option anymore.

717
00:32:49,119 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 2: No, I guess you'd say the Knicks probably, like Milwaukee,

718
00:32:54,079 --> 00:32:57,519
looks too bad to be a serious consideration. It's just

719
00:32:57,559 --> 00:32:59,000
got to be the Knicks. I don't know who i'd

720
00:32:59,039 --> 00:32:59,640
even think of.

721
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,319
Speaker 1: Besides, even with the Bank Harrow injury in Orlando, if

722
00:33:02,319 --> 00:33:03,839
you wanted to go spicy, but that doesn't look like

723
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,920
the Pacers, that's for sure. We move on to the

724
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,559
Dallas Mavericks, which a little bit of a repeat. Here

725
00:33:09,599 --> 00:33:12,559
meet the actual second best team in the West. I

726
00:33:12,599 --> 00:33:15,119
don't know if this is an overreaction because they were

727
00:33:15,119 --> 00:33:18,519
certainly in that conversation, but a lot of people were

728
00:33:18,559 --> 00:33:22,440
talking about Minnesota and Denver, and Minnesota certainly had their

729
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,559
moments this season. I'm looking at the MAVs and you

730
00:33:25,599 --> 00:33:28,039
could have made a case probably until like the last game,

731
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,519
that Klay Thompson had been their best player. And then

732
00:33:31,559 --> 00:33:33,319
we see like Kyrie Irving kind of start to go off.

733
00:33:33,319 --> 00:33:35,920
They just lost her rockets before we recorded this, and

734
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,279
they came out flat. They almost came back to win it,

735
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,680
though they put up a fight there. I look at

736
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,720
this team and I'm sort of like anyone who was

737
00:33:43,759 --> 00:33:46,160
concerned that their defense would fall off a cliff. Their

738
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,319
tenth like, that's going to be fine right here, and

739
00:33:48,359 --> 00:33:50,640
their offense is below league average right now. Do you

740
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,720
honestly think Lugudancis is gonna make more shots moving forward?

741
00:33:53,759 --> 00:33:55,119
There's a bunch of guys on this team that are

742
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,960
gonna hit more of their threes. I am so optimist.

743
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,400
The Mavericks are three as we record this, and I

744
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,359
don't know that I could be any higher on them

745
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,559
if they were five, and oh sure, but I look

746
00:34:05,559 --> 00:34:08,199
at them and I say, this team just they are

747
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,360
so deep. They're just so and they're great. They're so big,

748
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,960
Like whenever they have like the Naji Marshall PJ washingteam

749
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,480
plus a big and Luca on the court and it's oh,

750
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,840
Luka Dancic is the second shortest player on the court, right,

751
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:21,840
what the hell is going up? They are so big.

752
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:23,159
This team's really good.

753
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 2: They they kind of have everything. And I watched almost

754
00:34:26,519 --> 00:34:29,639
all of that Houston loss as we're recording this last night,

755
00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:32,599
and like it was just it was Dallas. You want

756
00:34:32,599 --> 00:34:35,199
to credit the like Aman Thompson was a did about

757
00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:36,880
as good a job on Luca for like a long

758
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,119
stretch as anyone you could imagine would do, which is like, yeah,

759
00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:42,440
that's what it does. Houston has a lot of maybe

760
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,119
more guys than anybody that can hold up against Luca,

761
00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:47,639
between like Brooks, Thompson and Tarry Easton, Like they got

762
00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:49,480
all these guys that are like the right size and

763
00:34:49,639 --> 00:34:52,880
level of physicality, and then Dallas still almost came back

764
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,800
and won that game. The Maps kind of have everything,

765
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,320
like they you know, between Lively and Gafford, there's always

766
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,039
gonna be someone one that can defend. Shangoon really took

767
00:35:03,079 --> 00:35:04,599
it to both of those guys. I think if there's

768
00:35:04,599 --> 00:35:06,800
a weakness there, it's like a really physical post up

769
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,760
center can neutralize those type those guys specifically because they're

770
00:35:11,159 --> 00:35:13,880
they're pick and roll cat and mouse defenders, shop blockers,

771
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,679
help defenders. If you just back them down and Shangun

772
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,360
is like uniquely good at this, maybe that's where you

773
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,199
can make Dallas seem vulnerable. I don't know who else

774
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,079
can do that, but yeah, they have so much size,

775
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,199
they have the potential to have so much shooting. They

776
00:35:27,199 --> 00:35:30,719
have multiple shot creators. You bring guys like Quentin Grimes

777
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,119
off the bench, who's just like, you know, I have

778
00:35:33,199 --> 00:35:35,840
no I have no concerns about him in a playoff rotation.

779
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,639
I really don't like, so I get I don't know

780
00:35:38,679 --> 00:35:41,079
what the weakness would be. I suppose it's just like

781
00:35:42,679 --> 00:35:46,639
I mean, between Thompson and Nausei Marshall, there's like you're

782
00:35:46,639 --> 00:35:49,000
not sure that that one of those guys is going

783
00:35:49,079 --> 00:35:51,519
to be like one hundred percent playoff caliber all the time.

784
00:35:51,559 --> 00:35:55,920
But like Dallas is just built to make a deep run.

785
00:35:56,039 --> 00:35:58,199
They just they they're so deep, they're so big, they

786
00:35:58,199 --> 00:36:00,360
have the best player in most series that they like.

787
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,280
It's I don't know what the questions even are.

788
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,679
Speaker 1: Really, I think it's and I don't know that this

789
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,239
should be a problem when you are as big as

790
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,039
you are in theory. They've been really bad on the

791
00:36:10,039 --> 00:36:13,360
defensive glass. So again we're talking five games hample side

792
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,880
weird toward this. It's weird. I mean, you could look

793
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:17,559
at some of their put like the rockets can be

794
00:36:17,599 --> 00:36:20,480
pretty big for sure, so like that would be and

795
00:36:20,519 --> 00:36:22,960
I think people could point to, Okay, well, is there

796
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,280
defense going to hold up when you're going to play

797
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,639
Luka Danchs, Kyrie Ing and Klay Thompson together. I think they've

798
00:36:27,639 --> 00:36:31,519
staggered that effectively enough and I'm like the rim protection

799
00:36:31,559 --> 00:36:33,280
of the back line is good enough. Opponents are still

800
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,159
shooting under sixty percent from there. I come away from

801
00:36:36,199 --> 00:36:38,480
what I've seen with I get what you were saying

802
00:36:38,519 --> 00:36:41,199
about Shanggun, but I almost view it as, all right,

803
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,400
how many of these guys are actually gonna rebound and

804
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,960
start making shots for Dallas And it's just kind of like,

805
00:36:47,079 --> 00:36:49,119
right now, No, you're never gonna have a ton of

806
00:36:49,119 --> 00:36:52,280
wide open threes because the most of the people taking

807
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:53,960
your threes are not taking them wide open. When you

808
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,639
look at Luca and then Kyrie to a lesser extent obviously,

809
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,920
and the Mass We're shooting forty percent wide open threes.

810
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,760
That's like probably a little bit above league average. It's

811
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,519
been on the more like the Okay, there's guy coming

812
00:37:06,519 --> 00:37:09,119
on a close out, how are we faring here? They've

813
00:37:09,159 --> 00:37:11,400
not shot too well in those situations. They're at thirty

814
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,480
two point six so on semi open threes. I find

815
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,519
myself when I look at PJ. Washington struggling. I find

816
00:37:17,519 --> 00:37:19,360
myself when you look at Okay. We know Luca is

817
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,119
gonna shoot better, so that's not someone you worry about.

818
00:37:22,159 --> 00:37:25,800
But looking at Naji Marshall, is he you know he

819
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:27,760
kind of had his first good three point shooting last year.

820
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,639
Can Quentin Grimes tick up from thirty three point three percent?

821
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,400
Those are things I'm a little bit more worried about.

822
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,519
But this is we already spent more time in the

823
00:37:35,519 --> 00:37:38,679
Mass I think we needed to. But I think if

824
00:37:38,679 --> 00:37:40,760
there's a team that would challenge this the most, too,

825
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:42,239
is it that's the second best team in the West

826
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:42,639
right now?

827
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 2: I would lean Minnesota. I guess I'm trying to are

828
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:51,239
we in Phoenix? Maybe Phoenix? I like Minnesota a little

829
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:55,559
better than Phoenix. Yeah, that's probably it. Like we were

830
00:37:55,679 --> 00:37:57,559
probably higher on the Lakers than we would have been

831
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,400
a few weeks ago, but I don't know that I

832
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,480
put them at that level yet. And that's yeah, that's

833
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:01,920
really it.

834
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 1: We are sticking with me very sadly. Two teams in

835
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,239
a row is a lot. Grant, you don't know this

836
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:10,840
pain h grant. The Nuggets will be a playing team

837
00:38:11,079 --> 00:38:14,920
if Nicole Jokic does not win the twenty twenty five

838
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,559
scoring title, and by that his career high in points

839
00:38:18,559 --> 00:38:21,079
I think is twenty seven point one and as of

840
00:38:21,159 --> 00:38:23,800
right now, he is averaging thirty one and a half,

841
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,719
which is tied with Tyrese Maxi for the most in

842
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,760
the NBA. Now, I'm gonna lay out my argument to

843
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,760
you Thusly, they have looked at their best when he's

844
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,719
just been fucking aggressive as a scorer. And I think

845
00:38:37,039 --> 00:38:40,000
what's come to bear now is they are more dependent

846
00:38:40,079 --> 00:38:43,800
on him than ever. They are tying more of Jamal

847
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,840
Murray minutes to him than ever. Last year, Jamal Murray

848
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,440
logged seventy seven percent of his minutes next to Jokic.

849
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:51,960
Right now, that's up there, or possessions, I went by

850
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,760
right now that number is up to like eighty eight percent,

851
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,480
and they are getting absolutely destroyed. In the minutes that

852
00:38:58,559 --> 00:39:01,559
Murray plays without yok The offense grant is in the

853
00:39:01,639 --> 00:39:04,239
zero fixth percentile during that Stritch You can't actually get

854
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:04,800
any worse than that.

855
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:06,280
Speaker 2: I didn't know if you knew, I No, it doesn't

856
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:06,760
seem that way.

857
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,199
Speaker 1: And this is kind of a continuation. We're in the

858
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,480
six percentile when Murray played with at him last year. Now,

859
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,840
what I think I'm most curious about is one, whether

860
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,719
you agree, but how much of this is is there

861
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:19,840
a better team? And here in the sense that could,

862
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,679
Michael Malone seems to have leaned more into like if

863
00:39:22,679 --> 00:39:25,199
you start to dig into the lineup data, we haven't

864
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,960
seen like a bunch of three star even three starter units,

865
00:39:29,039 --> 00:39:31,159
let alone. We haven't seen the four starters play without

866
00:39:31,199 --> 00:39:33,880
Jokic yet the other four and like you start digging

867
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,960
into the three man combinations without Jokis, those basically don't exist.

868
00:39:37,199 --> 00:39:42,679
A possession here, possession there. Should Michael Malone not be like, well,

869
00:39:42,679 --> 00:39:44,280
I'm just gonna play all my best players at once,

870
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,480
and we're just when Jamal Murray's alone, there's gonna be

871
00:39:46,519 --> 00:39:49,880
a bunch of bench players around him, or is this

872
00:39:50,159 --> 00:39:55,320
really just the flawed makeup of a team manifesting into Okay,

873
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,000
we are now more dependent on the best player in

874
00:39:58,039 --> 00:40:00,519
the world than we've ever been, which is you're always

875
00:40:00,559 --> 00:40:03,719
going to be inextricably reliant on them. But the fact

876
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,760
that we're more reliant on him is as a score,

877
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:08,800
which is not something that he can do it, but

878
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,119
he's not hardwired to do it. Yeah, where do you

879
00:40:11,119 --> 00:40:13,280
sort of land on this entire discussion.

880
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it's it's it's more than they're just

881
00:40:17,519 --> 00:40:20,800
reliant on Jokic to a degree that they haven't been before.

882
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,920
It's that like they were already the team that was

883
00:40:24,039 --> 00:40:27,320
most singularly reliant on one guy right all of the

884
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,000
like on off splits. He just is at the top

885
00:40:30,039 --> 00:40:32,519
of the league every year, and then it's even more

886
00:40:32,599 --> 00:40:35,079
extreme this year. Like you, I think you I don't

887
00:40:35,119 --> 00:40:36,920
know if you said it, but like the offensive ratings split,

888
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,159
it's like forty two points better with Jokic on the

889
00:40:39,159 --> 00:40:43,159
floor than off. So like it's I mean that number

890
00:40:43,199 --> 00:40:45,920
is too big to sustain, like it will it can't

891
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,440
stay in the high thirties or forties. You know, even

892
00:40:49,519 --> 00:40:51,920
Jokic is like in the twenties typically in terms of

893
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:55,559
you're cleaning the glass on off splits, Like, so can

894
00:40:55,599 --> 00:40:59,679
Malone do something to is there some staggering pattern to

895
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,280
mid gate this? Like I just I guess I'd answer

896
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,079
the question with the question and say, like, Okay, so

897
00:41:04,199 --> 00:41:08,599
who if not Murray is capable of creating enough shots

898
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,840
to like prop up offense without Yokic on the floor,

899
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:13,880
And they're just that guy's not on the team, right,

900
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,880
It's like it's not Russell Westbrook, it's not Julian Strawther.

901
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,000
It's it's like that's it, right, There's there's nobody else

902
00:41:20,039 --> 00:41:21,719
that you would look to as like can you just

903
00:41:22,159 --> 00:41:25,119
run a pick and roll and you know, create some

904
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:26,880
kind of looks for us that that guy isn't on

905
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,800
the So it's just a gradual thinning of the rotation

906
00:41:30,519 --> 00:41:33,760
and it's guys like Murray not looking their best and

907
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,480
the team just the team is built to be insanely

908
00:41:36,519 --> 00:41:40,440
reliant on Jokic, and it's just this is just gotten extreme.

909
00:41:40,559 --> 00:41:44,159
So like, yeah, the floor for this team is like

910
00:41:45,039 --> 00:41:48,719
real low. If Yokic misses time or if yokich is

911
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,679
at any point something other than like spectacular, you know.

912
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,679
Speaker 1: And I think what also hurts is when you have

913
00:41:55,400 --> 00:42:00,800
that limited secondary, self sufficient guy, can you at least

914
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,079
prop things up with better spacing and the Nuggets cannot,

915
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,840
especially when Jamal Murray's a wildcard and more importantly, Michael

916
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,719
Porter Junior. As we record this is sub thirty percent

917
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,199
from three this year, and you look at the personnel, like,

918
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,079
forget about what these players are shooting, look at how

919
00:42:17,159 --> 00:42:20,119
often they're shooting. And we make fun of the Pelicans

920
00:42:20,519 --> 00:42:22,960
all the time for this, but the Nuggets are currently

921
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,440
dead last, by the way, for a second straight scene.

922
00:42:25,519 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 2: Right, that's the story, right, They're exactly where they were

923
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:30,760
last year in three point a temperate.

924
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 1: Well, they're actually taking fewer threes as the percent of

925
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,199
their offense, so they're still thirty so last year grant

926
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:39,400
thirty two point three percent of their shots coming from three.

927
00:42:39,599 --> 00:42:42,000
This year, that's dropped so far by almost four percentage

928
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,760
points to twenty eight point four. That is probably predictable,

929
00:42:46,079 --> 00:42:49,360
but inexcusable, and it's not here. So I don't know

930
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,559
if you saw the ESPN piece that was published, it

931
00:42:51,599 --> 00:42:53,760
was really good, well done by Ramona Shelburne. I don't

932
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,039
think it did anything to make the vibes any better

933
00:42:56,119 --> 00:42:58,519
around Denver. Calvin Booth is probably gonna get an extension,

934
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,000
and I will say they are so lucky in the

935
00:43:02,039 --> 00:43:04,440
same vein at Golden State, and every team is lucky

936
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,400
to have superstar X. I don't know that there has

937
00:43:07,519 --> 00:43:12,840
been a lower maintenance superstar since Steph Curry, then Nikol Jokich,

938
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:14,920
and then before Steph Curry. It was what Tim duncan

939
00:43:15,159 --> 00:43:19,440
when you're looking at the consonant like actual superstar MVP types.

940
00:43:19,559 --> 00:43:21,840
If this was anybody else in the league right now

941
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,519
that ranks in the top fifteen of players, grant, which

942
00:43:24,519 --> 00:43:26,760
one are we looking at and saying they're not gonna

943
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,320
request a trade? Probably Steph Curry. And then that is it,

944
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,719
And they are so fucking lucky they have this guy

945
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:35,960
who doesn't want to meddle. That was part of what

946
00:43:36,079 --> 00:43:39,360
came through in the piece. But I'm almost the sky

947
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,800
isn't falling. They're eleventh in offense, but like their twenty

948
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,519
fifth in effective field goal rate, I still am fairly

949
00:43:44,559 --> 00:43:47,280
optimistic this team will be better than they've shown, but

950
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,400
they just have made It's what I want to throw

951
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,320
out is I don't know if they had Contavious Calbo

952
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:54,400
Pope right now, if they would be worlds better. I

953
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,800
think the spacing would be easier, It would certainly improve

954
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,039
things that there would be a trickle down. Okay, Christian

955
00:43:59,039 --> 00:44:01,000
Brown is still coming off the bench. How does that

956
00:44:01,079 --> 00:44:04,559
help you. My whole thing is they have repeatedly either

957
00:44:04,559 --> 00:44:07,360
decided not to go after bigger swings. They did poke

958
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,400
around the Paul George market, but I guess we're shocked

959
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,320
to find out that the Clippers didn't want salary with

960
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,039
no Brown or Peyton Watson involved.

961
00:44:14,199 --> 00:44:16,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, OK, so you didn't.

962
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 1: Really poke around for Paul George, that is what you're saying.

963
00:44:19,599 --> 00:44:22,400
My whole thing is you've repeatedly missed. The Reggie Jackson

964
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,880
deal was a farce. The Derek Sarage contract grant, despite

965
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,039
Nuggets fans a plenty of them telling the otherwise, that

966
00:44:29,079 --> 00:44:30,960
was a farce too, relative to his markets, even if

967
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,760
he was working out And guess what grant he's not

968
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,360
working out. He shouldn't twenty two like people came in

969
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,960
thinking he was this floor spacer. He's not even taking them.

970
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 2: No this year, he was done last year. I think

971
00:44:41,519 --> 00:44:44,360
if you watched Nuggets fans didn't watch Sarage last year

972
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,320
if they thought that he was gonna be a difference picker. Yet,

973
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,119
Like I mean, I would say in addition to like,

974
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,079
if you took the top fifteen guys and then we can

975
00:44:52,119 --> 00:44:55,800
move on. Jokic is like is right there with Curry

976
00:44:56,119 --> 00:44:59,199
among guys who like wouldn't be agitating for something to happen.

977
00:44:59,519 --> 00:45:02,079
I also think if you put literally any other player

978
00:45:02,119 --> 00:45:05,320
on this team, maybe Luca is the exception. Like, I

979
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,039
don't think you could expect the results that Denver gets

980
00:45:08,079 --> 00:45:10,880
with Jokic as the singular driver, you know what I mean?

981
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,599
Like you couldn't if you put Shay or if you

982
00:45:13,639 --> 00:45:16,559
put Jason Tatum, or if you put Anthony Edwards. Like

983
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,199
this team is so much worse, Like Jokic is so

984
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,599
which is the the guy that can hold up a team?

985
00:45:22,599 --> 00:45:23,559
Nobody else can do this?

986
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:25,639
Speaker 1: Let's really rile up the masses. What if you put

987
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:27,880
and he has to be fully healthy and play as

988
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:29,800
many games Joelle embiide on this team.

989
00:45:29,639 --> 00:45:31,559
Speaker 2: I don't think it has It doesn't have the same effect.

990
00:45:31,559 --> 00:45:32,519
They're worse, Yeah, worse.

991
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,679
Speaker 1: That's it. We didn't really rile up. We didn't rile

992
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:37,840
up us. I don't have any other thoughts on that

993
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:39,920
other than I do think that they are failing there.

994
00:45:40,599 --> 00:45:44,039
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, last thing, we didn't mention them as

995
00:45:44,039 --> 00:45:45,960
who might be the second best team in the West,

996
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,039
like they've earned that just because of Jokic. But it's

997
00:45:49,079 --> 00:45:52,159
a tough case to make right now, Like the play

998
00:45:52,159 --> 00:45:54,559
in seems more realistic than the number two seed I would.

999
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:56,639
Speaker 1: I would get do you think he's gonna stay over

1000
00:45:56,679 --> 00:45:58,840
thirty points per game? Which is kind of Let's bring

1001
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:00,760
it back to the actual overre I.

1002
00:46:02,599 --> 00:46:06,639
Speaker 2: Mean, how can he not does the pathway to that?

1003
00:46:08,639 --> 00:46:10,360
Does it? Yeah? Does it? He have to? I mean

1004
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,360
he really doesn't want to, but he will.

1005
00:46:12,199 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 1: Have to the actual final thing, I'll say, And it's

1006
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,559
not something I would predict. And I'm sure he's earned

1007
00:46:16,639 --> 00:46:18,400
leeway and I'm sure it helps that. I think Nikole

1008
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,960
Jokic would be on board with him. But I think

1009
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,000
Michael Malone has a case of just like the front

1010
00:46:23,039 --> 00:46:24,960
office in him. If they're still not seeing eye to

1011
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:26,519
eye on this, is he want of the coaches just

1012
00:46:26,519 --> 00:46:28,519
to get fired if they really go off the rails?

1013
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 2: Could be let's go back to the east Man, Let's

1014
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,039
do the Detroit Pistons next, and I will I will

1015
00:46:33,079 --> 00:46:37,440
claim ownership over them. I think a solid overreaction based

1016
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:39,400
on the early season and the jade and Ivy, believe

1017
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,920
it or not, actually is the right guy to put

1018
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:45,239
in the backcourt next to Cave Cunningham. And that'll change

1019
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,599
if he stops shooting over forty percent from three, which

1020
00:46:47,639 --> 00:46:50,519
he is right now on more volume than he's ever had.

1021
00:46:51,119 --> 00:46:53,960
But if the three point shot is falling now, like,

1022
00:46:54,159 --> 00:46:57,639
Ivy's not a perfect player otherwise, some of the decision

1023
00:46:57,679 --> 00:47:00,039
making is not where you need it to be. The

1024
00:47:00,039 --> 00:47:02,760
defense comes and goes, he can be real spacey, but

1025
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,280
like if he's going to make threes and bring the

1026
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:09,000
athletic drives and the transition play, and if we also

1027
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,440
just give him a little bit of grace because it

1028
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:15,840
was a very difficult developmental environment under Monty Williams and

1029
00:47:16,079 --> 00:47:19,480
just coming in as a rookie before that, I think

1030
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,320
there's a case now where Ivy like can just be

1031
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,000
the guy based on the early early going here. And

1032
00:47:24,039 --> 00:47:27,400
I do think it's interesting too that the Pistons basically

1033
00:47:27,679 --> 00:47:32,400
are giving him enough opportunities to play without cunning him

1034
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,960
to sort of expand that part of his game, even

1035
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:36,800
though the most important thing is that he can play

1036
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,480
with him. The Pistons have either him or Cunning him

1037
00:47:39,519 --> 00:47:41,639
on the floor almost ninety eight percent of the time.

1038
00:47:41,679 --> 00:47:43,239
Almost one hundred percent of the time one of those

1039
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:46,920
two is out there, which I would argue further suggests

1040
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,480
that Detroit is like, Okay, this is this can be

1041
00:47:49,559 --> 00:47:52,320
our guy next to kid. If they're really entrusting him

1042
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,760
with basically all the minutes that Caid's not on the floor.

1043
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:58,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have to agree with you. We did mention

1044
00:47:58,599 --> 00:48:00,800
this after kind of the first game. We had watched

1045
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:02,320
one game of J and IVY and said, Wow, the

1046
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:05,039
process with him looks better both on or off the ball.

1047
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:06,920
Something I am monitoring, and I don't know how much

1048
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:08,519
of this has to do with one I think it's

1049
00:48:09,199 --> 00:48:11,800
you put actual floor spacers on this roster. Wow, look

1050
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,280
what happens. It opens things up for someone like him,

1051
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,119
but he is not, like you haven't seen a dramatic

1052
00:48:16,159 --> 00:48:19,119
improvement in his two point efficiency. And I'm wondering if

1053
00:48:19,119 --> 00:48:21,760
they lean even more into kind of the Isaiah Stewart

1054
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:23,599
line ups and have him on the court for them,

1055
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:28,239
that could help him. Like he's shot better there's definitely

1056
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:29,679
more room for him to a maneuver mid range. I'm

1057
00:48:29,679 --> 00:48:32,239
talking specifically at the rim. We've seen that frequency drop,

1058
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:33,360
and I do when you watch him he could be

1059
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:35,360
a little bit out of control when he gets around there.

1060
00:48:35,639 --> 00:48:37,039
But yeah, I'm encouraged. I would agree with you. I

1061
00:48:37,079 --> 00:48:39,360
think this is this is the best I've felt about

1062
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:40,599
Jay and Ivy since he entered the IM mean, I

1063
00:48:40,599 --> 00:48:42,039
don't even think it's particularly close.

1064
00:48:42,159 --> 00:48:46,039
Speaker 2: No, one hundred percent like it was. I mean this

1065
00:48:46,079 --> 00:48:48,440
time a year ago, or I mean maybe like this

1066
00:48:48,519 --> 00:48:50,519
time like ten months ago. Is probably about when it

1067
00:48:50,599 --> 00:48:53,119
got real ugly. It was just like, oh this is

1068
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:55,760
this is never gonna work. And now it's completely flipped

1069
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:56,000
for me.

1070
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,280
Speaker 1: God, we're back to me. We're gonna talk about you're

1071
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,639
a Golden State Warriors actually, and we won't spend too

1072
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:03,440
much time on this because we did a deeper dive

1073
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:05,239
into the Golden State Warriors. Go check out that a

1074
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,079
couple of days ago. YouTube channel, podcasts, wherever you get us.

1075
00:49:08,119 --> 00:49:11,760
We're all across across every platform. We'd appreciate it. Jonathan

1076
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:15,079
kaminga grant should not have bet on himself and this

1077
00:49:15,199 --> 00:49:17,639
comes on the heels this is a nice, little happy accident.

1078
00:49:17,679 --> 00:49:21,039
But there was reporting today from Sam Amick. I believe

1079
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:25,119
that the Warriors are more determined and or willing than

1080
00:49:25,159 --> 00:49:27,159
ever to trade Jonathan KAMINGA.

1081
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, if thirty million a year was on the

1082
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:33,280
table or something close to that, he should have taken it.

1083
00:49:34,119 --> 00:49:37,960
And that's because we've talked about this plenty. The market

1084
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,719
out there not great in terms of capspased teams that

1085
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:42,880
you'd actually want to play for that might pay you

1086
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:46,239
more than that in restrictive free agency, and it's pretty

1087
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:47,880
clear that he's not going to have the kind of

1088
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,400
role that allows for the statistical production that you would

1089
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:54,000
just look at after the season and say like, oh

1090
00:49:54,039 --> 00:49:57,119
my god, the guy averaged twenty five seven and four

1091
00:49:57,559 --> 00:49:59,840
and he's twenty three years old, Like, okay, let's maxim

1092
00:50:00,079 --> 00:50:01,599
he's just not going to have that kind of role,

1093
00:50:02,199 --> 00:50:05,039
even if you just rule out the efficiency stuff, like

1094
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:07,920
the opportunity for him to do better than thirty million

1095
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:09,239
a year. Just I don't think it's there.

1096
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:14,039
Speaker 1: I did, and but I really think people have overthought

1097
00:50:14,079 --> 00:50:16,239
this where I was. I've been criticized for maybe being

1098
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:18,239
too low by him, including by you, which I think

1099
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,639
is fine, but we're talking about someone who is so

1100
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,519
predicated on getting downhill and maybe not always being able

1101
00:50:24,559 --> 00:50:26,760
to do so on his own, like he might need

1102
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,639
to catch it with a running start, And we're talking about, oh,

1103
00:50:29,679 --> 00:50:31,599
there's too much traffic for him. And yet he's still

1104
00:50:31,639 --> 00:50:34,039
not a good passer, still not a good rebounder, not

1105
00:50:34,119 --> 00:50:37,199
a reliable jump shooter. Why was it even he should

1106
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:40,679
just get Jalen Johnson money. Why should he even just

1107
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:44,960
get Jalen Suggs money? What is he even? I know

1108
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:46,559
he had a strong clothes to the year, but like,

1109
00:50:46,599 --> 00:50:50,800
this isn't someone who is particularly dynamic? Is what am

1110
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:52,719
I missing before we move on? Cause we didn't want

1111
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:53,880
to spend a ton of time on them since we

1112
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,199
just covered them? Am I missing something that makes him

1113
00:50:56,599 --> 00:50:59,320
so tantalizing other than oh, like he kind of has

1114
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:01,719
like some nasty footwork sometimes on the ball.

1115
00:51:02,159 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 2: It's just the flashes. I think the flashes are so

1116
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:09,639
spectacular and stand out so much, even like just the athleticism,

1117
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:15,079
the physicality when he's right, Like, it's just he has

1118
00:51:15,119 --> 00:51:21,280
like legitimately like top flight A plus athletic qualities that

1119
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:24,079
if you see him a few times, you can't get

1120
00:51:24,119 --> 00:51:26,480
him out of your head, and I think you just

1121
00:51:26,519 --> 00:51:28,760
look at the age and you you also buy in

1122
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:30,360
a little bit to the idea that like, ah, the

1123
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:32,880
Warriors aren't really featuring him. They're holding him back. He's

1124
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:34,960
not being allowed to do X, Y and Z, which

1125
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:36,920
the reason is because he can't do X, Y and

1126
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:39,639
Z consistently. But you kind of combine all that and

1127
00:51:39,639 --> 00:51:43,760
then you can talk yourself into he's he could just

1128
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,840
be a superstar two way combo forward like which is

1129
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,960
everybody wants it and you and you just to get there,

1130
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,199
though you have to ignore. You have to just only

1131
00:51:53,199 --> 00:51:56,119
see the flashes and not pay attention to like all

1132
00:51:56,159 --> 00:51:57,800
of the mistakes and all the other stuff that we

1133
00:51:57,840 --> 00:51:58,840
always talk about.

1134
00:51:59,039 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: I'm team Steve Carr on this one. We can move

1135
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,440
on the Houston Rockets, which our are They are my

1136
00:52:04,559 --> 00:52:07,840
team grant. This team has too many damn good players.

1137
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,880
And yes, this is mostly about Aman Thompson and Reed Shepherd.

1138
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:12,760
And in case anyone's wondering if that was just sort

1139
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,440
of a fun audio anecdote, that is actually what I

1140
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,239
wrote down for the slide on the Houston Rockets that

1141
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:21,559
we have up there. You look at this team and

1142
00:52:21,599 --> 00:52:24,400
I understand, I don't even know who I'm blaming. This

1143
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:27,000
is like why I'm so I'm not even furious, but

1144
00:52:27,079 --> 00:52:29,880
A'man Thompson is averaging fewer minutes per game than he

1145
00:52:30,039 --> 00:52:32,880
was last year. There's always this risk of if you're

1146
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,760
coming off the bench, your minutes are always going to

1147
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,360
be repressed. But to be averaging fewer per game in

1148
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,719
last year, just at how good I think Aman Thompson

1149
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:43,000
is and it feels like, by the way I know,

1150
00:52:43,039 --> 00:52:47,159
the efficiency doesn't always back this up. The jumper looks better,

1151
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,760
like it's smoother, especially launching from the corners. For him,

1152
00:52:51,079 --> 00:52:53,320
it feels like he could just do so much more,

1153
00:52:53,519 --> 00:52:56,119
but the Rockets have way too many good players and

1154
00:52:56,159 --> 00:52:59,360
so it's almost holding him back. And by the way,

1155
00:52:59,639 --> 00:53:02,440
Reach Shepherd is averaging a whopping eight point six minutes

1156
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:04,880
per game through three games. And I don't know that

1157
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:06,920
Reed Shepherd has done anything that said, oh, well, he

1158
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:10,119
needs to be playing these minutes. But if we're talking

1159
00:53:10,199 --> 00:53:13,119
just a few games here, to have the number three

1160
00:53:13,159 --> 00:53:16,159
overall pick and that's what he is playing in year

1161
00:53:16,199 --> 00:53:18,679
one should typically be a red flag. And for this,

1162
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,960
it's my opinion of Reed Shepherd hasn't changed. It's just that,

1163
00:53:22,519 --> 00:53:25,679
my god, the rockets are so loaded. At what point

1164
00:53:26,039 --> 00:53:27,480
And I'm not saying that because I don't know how

1165
00:53:27,519 --> 00:53:29,920
much worse they'd actually be, But at what point do

1166
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,039
you have to start looking at it and say, okay, well,

1167
00:53:32,039 --> 00:53:34,920
maybe Fred van Fleet and Dylan Brooks and even Jalen

1168
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:37,440
Green who's been playing really well, like those guys can't

1169
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:39,840
play thirty plus minutes a game because we need to

1170
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:43,719
start allocating these minutes to these guys who are I think, well,

1171
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:45,920
Jalen Green that would be debatable, but certainly more so

1172
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,639
than Fred van Fleet and Dylan Brooks. These other names

1173
00:53:48,639 --> 00:53:51,039
are way more important to the future. I mean, even

1174
00:53:51,119 --> 00:53:53,920
Cam Whitmore, he is not shot well from three grant

1175
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:57,960
this year and over twelve right, and he did make

1176
00:53:58,000 --> 00:53:59,679
a shot against the Mavericks, though didn't he I think he.

1177
00:53:59,639 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 2: Had much was made of it because it was his

1178
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:03,119
first of the season.

1179
00:54:03,159 --> 00:54:06,199
Speaker 1: Whopping seven point one percent now on the season. So,

1180
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,440
but it's also like he's playing twelve point four minutes

1181
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:11,119
per game. What type of flow are you supposed to

1182
00:54:11,119 --> 00:54:13,239
get into? And so if you're asking me, where are

1183
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:16,199
the minutes supposed to come from? That's not really my job.

1184
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:18,800
But I kind of look at it and say, I

1185
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:21,559
don't like, I get the process of if you're trying

1186
00:54:21,599 --> 00:54:23,920
to win the most games right now. But even if

1187
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:25,440
you are trying to win the most games right now,

1188
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:27,360
I've view Ama and Thompson as someone who just needs

1189
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:29,039
to play more, is basically what I'm getting at. This

1190
00:54:29,119 --> 00:54:31,719
is more about him than it is Reed Shepherd. Even

1191
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:34,599
though taking someone number three and then I know you're

1192
00:54:34,639 --> 00:54:37,440
a better team, but this is not like you were

1193
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:40,159
a playoff team last year and added the number three

1194
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:42,800
overall pick. So it's it's different from well, like, look

1195
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,320
how loaded and good they are. Okay, awesome, you're not

1196
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:49,320
one of the best teams, just like in the Western Conference. Inarguably,

1197
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:50,920
I know that you're three and two.

1198
00:54:51,519 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, they they So I had this thought watching them

1199
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,360
against Dallas, and Thompson was playing great and so and

1200
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:00,440
Green had moments where it was like, oh my, that

1201
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:02,880
guy is the fastest man on earth, like he just

1202
00:55:03,079 --> 00:55:06,639
you know. So I start thinking about the Rockets addressing

1203
00:55:06,679 --> 00:55:11,000
this in terms in through the prism of like, okay,

1204
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:13,920
what combinations do we like? And I really do think

1205
00:55:14,079 --> 00:55:17,960
Green and Thompson as a combo works like that, you

1206
00:55:18,079 --> 00:55:20,840
get so much of one thing, which is like the defense,

1207
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:25,440
the decision making, the transition stuff, the rebounding, the disruption

1208
00:55:25,559 --> 00:55:27,960
from Thompson, and then Green is just like a lights

1209
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,199
out scorer. Like I really, at this point, I just

1210
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:33,760
don't have any question that Jalen Green is gonna be

1211
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:37,159
and is right now just an awesome offensive player. Like

1212
00:55:37,199 --> 00:55:39,920
maybe that means he's Zach Levine, but maybe he's better

1213
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,880
than that, you know, Like I really, I'm getting increasingly

1214
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,960
sold on Green and sold on him and Thompson playing together.

1215
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:48,000
I have no idea what those lineup minutes look like

1216
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,079
so far this season. I don't care because the samples

1217
00:55:51,079 --> 00:55:53,840
are tiny, and that's a two man combo, so noises everywhere.

1218
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:58,119
But then you start and like Shangoun non negotiable, Jabari

1219
00:55:58,159 --> 00:56:00,719
Smith Junior, I think is just kind of not in

1220
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,440
anybody's way, so he's gonna play a lot. So then

1221
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,000
it's just like Whitmore and Shepherd are just gonna get

1222
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:08,440
squeezed because Tarry Eastan's gonna play like that. He's just

1223
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:11,679
gonna get his fifteen to twenty minutes a night, not points,

1224
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:14,119
to be clear. So those two guys. I just don't

1225
00:56:14,159 --> 00:56:16,039
know what the pathway is to playing is for them

1226
00:56:16,119 --> 00:56:19,840
unless you are gonna move Brooks, gonna move Van Vliet,

1227
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:22,960
which I think would so fundamentally change what's one of

1228
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:24,719
the best things about this team, which is just like

1229
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:28,159
the competitive edge and like the physicality and that kind

1230
00:56:28,199 --> 00:56:29,480
of thing. Like, I don't know if you want to

1231
00:56:29,519 --> 00:56:31,480
do that. So I don't have a solution, but your

1232
00:56:31,519 --> 00:56:34,239
your overreaction is correct. They're just and it's there just

1233
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:36,960
are too many guys that need to play, and you

1234
00:56:37,079 --> 00:56:39,639
just don't know enough about the combos that work beyond

1235
00:56:39,679 --> 00:56:40,480
Thompson and Green.

1236
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:42,440
Speaker 1: To my eye, the more I think about it a

1237
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:43,639
little bit. But by the way, to your point, there

1238
00:56:43,639 --> 00:56:45,159
are a plus eleven point eight when I'm in and

1239
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:46,239
Jalen Green played.

1240
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:49,119
Speaker 2: Again, I do value that stat now because it's verifies

1241
00:56:49,199 --> 00:56:49,679
what I said.

1242
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 1: I do partly wonder if it's I think Dylan Brooks

1243
00:56:52,519 --> 00:56:54,440
in theory is the most replaceable and we're talking about

1244
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:56,360
guys whose minutes can come away if you just insert

1245
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:58,920
a Men Thompson in there for Fred van Vliet and

1246
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:00,719
just kind of lean into defense. If you think Jayalen

1247
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:03,440
Green's for reals, It's a tough situation to be in,

1248
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:05,440
So I'm not actually criticizing them, but I will say

1249
00:57:05,519 --> 00:57:08,159
I usink Ahma and Thompson specifically, and I would argue

1250
00:57:08,199 --> 00:57:10,800
read Shepherd too, just need bigger roles and they're gonna

1251
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:12,320
have to figure that out as the season goes on.

1252
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:14,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Shepherd might be hurt by the fact

1253
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:16,760
that there's less urgency to find out about him because

1254
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:19,559
of where his contract is, you know, like you the

1255
00:57:19,599 --> 00:57:22,079
clock's ticking on some of these other guys, you know.

1256
00:57:22,159 --> 00:57:25,559
Tom Thompson certainly even went more like you just reach.

1257
00:57:25,599 --> 00:57:27,719
Shepherd's just too far down the line in terms of

1258
00:57:27,719 --> 00:57:29,559
when we have to decide to pay him to be

1259
00:57:29,679 --> 00:57:30,480
like a high priority.

1260
00:57:30,559 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 1: It's objectively wild that the number three overall picked.

1261
00:57:33,239 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, who we loved and was gonna be super

1262
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:38,760
NBA ready and maybe is, but we just don't. We

1263
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:39,840
haven't seen it yet.

1264
00:57:40,039 --> 00:57:41,719
Speaker 1: These are your Indiana Pacers, Grant.

1265
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 2: So it's so funny, Like I was a couple of

1266
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:50,320
nights ago when they were really in the process of

1267
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:52,960
epically blowing the lead against Boston. That game went to

1268
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:54,920
overtime and Siakam won it with that top of the

1269
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:59,440
key three against against the Celtics. I really sincerely did

1270
00:57:59,519 --> 00:58:01,199
have the thought, now you put this on the sheet

1271
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:03,800
just for transparency. I had the thought of like, oh,

1272
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:06,440
I'm gonna just nominate the Pacers are the twenty one Hawks,

1273
00:58:06,639 --> 00:58:09,960
because I was just watching the Pacers coming off this

1274
00:58:10,039 --> 00:58:13,760
phenomenal offensive season conference finals, tyres Halburtn's great, all the

1275
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:16,079
parallels to Atlanta and Trey Young were there, and as

1276
00:58:16,079 --> 00:58:18,239
they're blowing this lead, I'm like, oh, I'm so in

1277
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:20,320
on this theory, Like they just really don't have it.

1278
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:21,920
That was a flash in the pan. And then they win,

1279
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:25,519
so less convinced than I would have been had they

1280
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:30,519
officially blown that game against the Celtics. But the parallels

1281
00:58:30,559 --> 00:58:35,519
are frightening. I would say, an offensively driven team led

1282
00:58:35,519 --> 00:58:39,440
by a singular offensive star who kills you defensively, reaching

1283
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:43,320
a conference finals in a weak field, Oh, the arrow's

1284
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:46,639
trending up. You've got all these all these positive signs.

1285
00:58:46,679 --> 00:58:48,519
And then it's kind of like, oh, I don't know

1286
00:58:48,519 --> 00:58:50,920
about this team, Like the defense is still an issue.

1287
00:58:51,719 --> 00:58:54,000
They're not getting anything out of Jaris Walker. Maybe it's

1288
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:56,599
a positive. Bennec Mathern has had some real moments this year,

1289
00:58:56,679 --> 00:58:59,480
But yeah, like, I don't know if you're re ranking

1290
00:58:59,559 --> 00:59:02,800
the East, we're not moving the Pacers higher than we

1291
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:05,159
had in preseason right at this point.

1292
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 1: No, I don't how much of it comes down to, Okay,

1293
00:59:08,519 --> 00:59:11,440
Tyre's Haliburton will eventually you know, have games where he's

1294
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:14,239
making shots. He's not even shooting Will Loozy at sixty

1295
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:15,880
he hasn't been to the line a bunch. He's at

1296
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:18,840
a sub sixty seven percent from the foul line, and

1297
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:20,840
so I don't I mean, defense is still like they

1298
00:59:21,079 --> 00:59:23,280
guard him like a five alarm fire because it's Tyre's

1299
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:24,920
Albert and that helps. But I'm even looking at the

1300
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:28,440
Benedick Mathren breakout or progression that they've got, and look,

1301
00:59:28,679 --> 00:59:30,679
Andrew Nemhard hasn't shot too well to start the year,

1302
00:59:30,719 --> 00:59:32,960
so some of this stuff should normalize. But I'm kind

1303
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:35,079
of looking at it and saying, this is great that

1304
00:59:35,079 --> 00:59:38,360
Benanic Mathrin is doing it, but it doesn't necessarily solve

1305
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:41,599
any of their biggest issues what he's doing, and that

1306
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,519
almost complicates what they're doing even more.

1307
00:59:44,639 --> 00:59:44,719
Speaker 2: So.

1308
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 1: I don't have this is one of the teams that

1309
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:49,559
I have the least feel for, But I do think

1310
00:59:49,599 --> 00:59:54,559
the overarching thought of we always knew that they weren't,

1311
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:57,280
not that they weren't Eastern Conference titles material they made

1312
00:59:57,280 --> 00:59:58,960
it that counts for something. You can only play who's

1313
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,719
in front of you. But we know progress isn't linear,

1314
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:04,559
and even by those standard its this team feels like

1315
01:00:04,679 --> 01:00:07,960
it was further away then last season might have showed.

1316
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 2: Do you think, cause I feel like I've fallen victim

1317
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:13,480
to this, Like when we saw the very best version

1318
01:00:13,519 --> 01:00:16,679
of Tyre's Haliburton for a few months last year, I

1319
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:19,079
just I just fell into, oh, this is the base,

1320
01:00:19,199 --> 01:00:21,519
like this is what he is. And the fact is, like,

1321
01:00:21,599 --> 01:00:23,760
if you're just being objective about it, that stretch was

1322
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:26,639
the out in his career, Like he's been great, Like

1323
01:00:26,679 --> 01:00:28,960
he's been super efficient, even you know that, I think

1324
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:31,079
he was a twenty ten and forty percent guy that

1325
01:00:31,199 --> 01:00:34,679
just like never happens. He's done that before independent of

1326
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:38,119
last year's first half. But like, do you think maybe

1327
01:00:38,159 --> 01:00:41,559
we just were too quick to assume that he would

1328
01:00:41,599 --> 01:00:44,400
just Haliburton would just be that first half of twenty

1329
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:47,039
three twenty four guy like all going forward, like that

1330
01:00:47,239 --> 01:00:50,239
was the baseline and not something lower than that, Or

1331
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:53,519
I mean he's been objectively like disappointing for him so far,

1332
01:00:53,679 --> 01:00:55,599
Like do you have some of that going on too?

1333
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wondered if I even wrote when I was

1334
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:00,719
doing the round table for basket All, she wrote that

1335
01:01:01,199 --> 01:01:03,159
it's so good to be in the Pacers position of

1336
01:01:03,239 --> 01:01:06,199
we know that we have both the guy and the

1337
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:09,440
number two guy, and now I'm just like, you just

1338
01:01:09,519 --> 01:01:11,400
have two number two guys, and I'm trying to just

1339
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:13,079
all right, We're only a few games in the season,

1340
01:01:13,079 --> 01:01:17,440
it's still really early, but that is that's a different

1341
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:20,119
conversation that I don't think they need to have yet.

1342
01:01:20,199 --> 01:01:24,039
I just don't like, even if Tyrese Halibert is playing better,

1343
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:26,840
I guess I haven't seen enough from this team defensively,

1344
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:28,639
is where are still most of my concerns are going

1345
01:01:28,679 --> 01:01:31,360
to lie to say, where's that step forward? Because you

1346
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:33,360
can be you could be the second best offense in

1347
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:36,079
the NBA, which we've seen them do, but the fact

1348
01:01:36,079 --> 01:01:38,320
that they're I guess if you're nineteenth in defense like

1349
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:39,840
they are now, you would almost view that as a

1350
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:43,480
plus and so it will organically come. But I don't know,

1351
01:01:43,599 --> 01:01:46,039
Like the turnovers has been all over the place with them.

1352
01:01:46,639 --> 01:01:49,280
They continue to struggle on the defensive glass like we

1353
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:52,000
all actually did not realize they're dead last defensive rebounding

1354
01:01:52,079 --> 01:01:54,199
rate too. I thought they were only bottom five. I

1355
01:01:54,239 --> 01:01:57,480
don't know looking at this roster, I don't know where

1356
01:01:57,519 --> 01:02:00,760
to solve for their biggest issue, Like they'reiggest issue. Let's

1357
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:03,400
be Frank has been Tyreus Haliburton's play to start the year,

1358
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:06,599
and that will normalize. I think it'll If he's not

1359
01:02:06,719 --> 01:02:09,039
a top whatever MVP candidate, he's still going to be

1360
01:02:09,079 --> 01:02:11,880
a superstar. So I don't have real concerns about that.

1361
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:15,119
But when you look at their other concerns, or just

1362
01:02:15,199 --> 01:02:17,760
look at their defensive concerns right now, where is the

1363
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:21,880
in house salve coming from? And I don't see. I

1364
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:24,440
don't know how. Maybe fans people who cover the Pacers

1365
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:25,880
probably do a better job of it than we are,

1366
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:27,880
but they have to be going through the same sort

1367
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:31,039
of existential dilemma here of what is the peak of

1368
01:02:31,079 --> 01:02:35,719
this team as currently constructed. We're onto my Los Angeles Clippers.

1369
01:02:35,719 --> 01:02:37,400
We don't need to spend a ton of time on them,

1370
01:02:37,719 --> 01:02:40,159
other than to say that Avita Zubox is going to

1371
01:02:40,199 --> 01:02:42,159
win motion improved player. He had me feel a little

1372
01:02:42,159 --> 01:02:45,079
bit not okay about this take when he went for

1373
01:02:45,159 --> 01:02:48,360
six points the other night, But then he goes and

1374
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:50,119
he drops what did he drop against the Clippers? Like

1375
01:02:50,119 --> 01:02:52,840
twenty two in the loss? So I feel a little

1376
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:54,840
bit better there, but you lost to the Blazers. As

1377
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:58,400
the Clippers, they've been super frisky this year, especially on defense.

1378
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:00,400
I don't know if this is just a I don't

1379
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:02,599
know how much of this I guess to say is, oh,

1380
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:06,400
Zubots is playing more. But when you're basically you know,

1381
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:08,880
as him, you're playing career high in minutes, and you've

1382
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:13,400
parlayed that into around twenty points, a league leading thirteen boards,

1383
01:03:13,599 --> 01:03:15,840
and your three assists, which those have come off. I

1384
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:17,320
think he was at like four and a half at

1385
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:20,760
one point. He's done some really good center floor playmaking

1386
01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:23,079
for them. He is still a deterrent at the rim.

1387
01:03:23,119 --> 01:03:25,119
It's not even just he's a good rin protector, like

1388
01:03:25,239 --> 01:03:29,440
teams just get there noticeably less when he's on the court.

1389
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:33,400
I don't know if that's when you've watched Zubots, I've

1390
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:35,519
gotten a sense that I really do think he's they've

1391
01:03:35,599 --> 01:03:39,280
used him more like he's making more complicated decisions on

1392
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:42,480
offense specifically, and I think he's very clearly their most

1393
01:03:42,519 --> 01:03:45,079
valuable defender right now. But when you look at most

1394
01:03:45,079 --> 01:03:47,199
improved player, there's the push and pull of is this

1395
01:03:47,559 --> 01:03:49,599
some guy who's already good and is just getting more

1396
01:03:49,599 --> 01:03:51,679
of an opportunity or is it someone who's already good

1397
01:03:52,039 --> 01:03:56,039
and they improved by just absurd amounts. Do you think

1398
01:03:56,079 --> 01:03:58,840
he falls more into the former or the latter category?

1399
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:02,519
Speaker 2: I would say, I think like the first thing you

1400
01:04:02,519 --> 01:04:05,159
would push back against if you were trying to fight

1401
01:04:05,199 --> 01:04:07,159
the case against him, is that like, well, yeah, he

1402
01:04:07,239 --> 01:04:09,079
is just playing more, but all is per hundred per

1403
01:04:09,079 --> 01:04:11,320
one hundred, possession numbers are up, so it's like other

1404
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:14,639
than rebounding, because he's always been just a phenomenal, permanent rebounder,

1405
01:04:14,639 --> 01:04:16,199
but even that, like it's not a career high, but

1406
01:04:16,239 --> 01:04:18,960
he's at eighteen point two boards per hundred. He hasn't

1407
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:23,199
been over eighteen since twenty nineteen twenty, so like it's

1408
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:26,400
it scoring up. Assists of free throw attempts per one hundred,

1409
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:29,360
they're all up, So it's like you might say, oh,

1410
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:31,920
that's not a new skill. I would argue, like in

1411
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:35,599
a lot of cases, if you can play more and

1412
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:38,920
in it even just hold your normal like permanent stats,

1413
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:41,079
like that's a big value add I don't know if

1414
01:04:41,119 --> 01:04:43,639
that means you've improved, but then when you're also upping

1415
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:48,400
your permanent production and playing more, that's that's improvement because

1416
01:04:48,519 --> 01:04:50,880
just like the theory would be, well, if you could

1417
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:53,320
have done that before, you would have just played more before.

1418
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:55,559
Like I get it that the Clippers are just kind

1419
01:04:55,559 --> 01:04:59,119
of searching, but like I do think we undervalue the

1420
01:04:59,159 --> 01:05:02,920
ability of a player to occupy a larger role and

1421
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:05,840
not give back any efficiency like we always do the

1422
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:08,559
volume efficiency trade off. Zubats is like he's just doing

1423
01:05:08,599 --> 01:05:11,119
more and playing more, So that would be the crux

1424
01:05:11,159 --> 01:05:14,000
of the most improved case. And I think it's also

1425
01:05:14,119 --> 01:05:16,840
valuable that like he's just way more important to this

1426
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:19,119
Clippers team than any Clippers team he's ever played for,

1427
01:05:19,519 --> 01:05:23,000
especially defensively. So I don't know, maybe you also credited

1428
01:05:23,079 --> 01:05:26,679
him for like he's in a position now where like

1429
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:29,840
their success and failure depends on him being really good,

1430
01:05:30,199 --> 01:05:33,920
and he's held up under that heavier burden, so you

1431
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:35,679
kind of got to contort a little bit to get there.

1432
01:05:35,719 --> 01:05:37,920
But you definitely can make the case that he's in

1433
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:38,679
that conversation.

1434
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,079
Speaker 1: I think it's also the thing that I think helps

1435
01:05:41,119 --> 01:05:43,000
him on offense too, is that because of the way

1436
01:05:43,039 --> 01:05:46,960
that defenses can now guard them, he's not getting as

1437
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:48,679
many easier looks at the rim, and so we've seen

1438
01:05:48,719 --> 01:05:50,639
him seen him take more shots out of the restricted area,

1439
01:05:50,639 --> 01:05:53,840
and yes, his efficiency has come down because of that.

1440
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:56,360
But when you're still going to be as high as

1441
01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:57,960
he is on twos, which is he still what is

1442
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:00,320
he on like fifty nine percent on twos it is,

1443
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:02,519
or he's still pretty high enough on twos that it's

1444
01:06:02,719 --> 01:06:05,039
sixty point six sixty point six, So there you go.

1445
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:09,000
That's that's a form of improvement. To wrap up here,

1446
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:11,639
would you be more inclined to go with so early

1447
01:06:11,679 --> 01:06:12,960
in the season, But are you more inclined to go

1448
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:14,880
with a candidate like him where he's kind of working

1449
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:17,280
from a I don't even want to say a high baseline,

1450
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:20,360
but a known baseline, or someone like Trey Mann, who

1451
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:22,679
it's okay, he's in Charlotte, he's lighted up. This is

1452
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:27,440
first real, real full season opportunity. But he's he's producing

1453
01:06:27,559 --> 01:06:29,760
certainly enough to be in that I've always grabbed. This

1454
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:32,199
is not even it's more of a conceptual question than

1455
01:06:32,239 --> 01:06:35,039
I think the the two players themselves. I think I've

1456
01:06:35,159 --> 01:06:37,960
been always more pulled to I like to mention the

1457
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:39,880
guys like Trey Man, but I've been always more pulled

1458
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:42,159
to the guys that have these larger track records.

1459
01:06:43,039 --> 01:06:46,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that makes it more. It makes that

1460
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:49,320
makes it easier to point at a guy and say like, oh, no,

1461
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:51,519
he's look at where he's been for a long time,

1462
01:06:51,559 --> 01:06:53,760
and like here's where he is now. That's different, that's better,

1463
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:57,119
that's improvement. Man like man kind of hint. Man feels

1464
01:06:57,119 --> 01:06:59,920
to me, I get, I don't know, more like a

1465
01:07:00,079 --> 01:07:03,079
guy that's just playing more. That's not totally fair. But

1466
01:07:03,199 --> 01:07:06,079
like we saw this a little bit down the stretch

1467
01:07:06,119 --> 01:07:08,239
with Charlotte last year when or nobody saw it because

1468
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:10,519
nobody's paying attention. But Man had a little bit of

1469
01:07:10,519 --> 01:07:11,960
this going on late last year too.

1470
01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:14,719
Speaker 1: Onto the Los Angeles Lakers, the other team we recently

1471
01:07:14,719 --> 01:07:16,920
did a deeper dive into, So feel free to go

1472
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:19,559
check that out YouTube podcast channel if you haven't listened

1473
01:07:19,559 --> 01:07:22,760
to us before. JJ Reddick Grant is totally going to

1474
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:24,360
win Coach of the Year, and I think the one

1475
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:27,519
pushback to this aside from let's play out the rest

1476
01:07:27,559 --> 01:07:29,880
of the season is Kenny Atkinson has to be the

1477
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:33,800
odds on favorite. Yeah right now, but because it's the Lakers,

1478
01:07:34,159 --> 01:07:36,639
and there's probably a chance that voters will have watched

1479
01:07:36,639 --> 01:07:39,960
more Lakers games then, And I think you also, we

1480
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:42,079
were all just there's no way the Lakers are panting out.

1481
01:07:42,119 --> 01:07:44,440
They need this big trade. I think more people left

1482
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:46,519
the door open for the Calves to be really good

1483
01:07:46,559 --> 01:07:48,719
with a new head coach than with the Lakers to

1484
01:07:48,719 --> 01:07:50,360
be really good with a new head coach. But I

1485
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:52,280
think when you just look at the material changes to

1486
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:54,719
the way they're playing, the off ball movement, the way

1487
01:07:54,719 --> 01:07:57,320
that Austin Reeves has played, they have I don't even

1488
01:07:57,320 --> 01:07:59,599
know if it's unleashed Anthony Davis so much as just

1489
01:07:59,679 --> 01:08:02,559
IMpower him. Like the driving from him and the shooting

1490
01:08:02,599 --> 01:08:05,119
files it's resulted has been great, and of course the

1491
01:08:05,199 --> 01:08:08,760
offensive rebounding crashing. They still aren't built to take enough threes.

1492
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:10,239
I mean, he would if they were. Imagine they were

1493
01:08:10,239 --> 01:08:12,199
like top half in the league in three point ten three.

1494
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:15,719
On top of all this, this to me, I'm I'm

1495
01:08:16,399 --> 01:08:21,840
I'm denigrating my own overreaction, But he is going to

1496
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:24,000
I think be in the conversation because the Lakers look

1497
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:26,039
like a team that as constructed, would you and I

1498
01:08:26,079 --> 01:08:28,800
didn't really the door open for too much seemed more

1499
01:08:29,039 --> 01:08:30,399
menacing than we had thought.

1500
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:33,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a lot of I know that a

1501
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:38,079
lot of my thinking about the Lakers was preseason was

1502
01:08:38,119 --> 01:08:41,239
predicated on like, well, here's here are the obvious downsides

1503
01:08:41,239 --> 01:08:43,399
that are probably gonna happen, like Lebron and Ad won't

1504
01:08:43,399 --> 01:08:45,800
be as healthy, and JJ Redick is just being set

1505
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:47,640
up to fail because of the pressure, because of the

1506
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:50,000
fact that they didn't change this roster because of the

1507
01:08:50,079 --> 01:08:53,600
Lebron and Brownie like it just but that was like

1508
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:56,359
a failure to consider like maybe JJ Redick is actually

1509
01:08:56,920 --> 01:09:00,560
gonna be like really organized and thoughtful and like do

1510
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:03,680
all the obvious stuff and just make this whole operation

1511
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:07,479
look like it's just better considered like possession to possession

1512
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:10,279
and then like Macro than it was before. That's a

1513
01:09:10,319 --> 01:09:12,680
little unfair to Darvin Ham and his staff because like,

1514
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:16,800
I'm sure they spent plenty of time, well plenty of calories.

1515
01:09:16,399 --> 01:09:20,560
Speaker 1: Sorting Milwaukee and Darvin Ham is there. Obviously that implies

1516
01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:23,079
both causation and correlation doesn't marse, of course.

1517
01:09:23,159 --> 01:09:25,079
Speaker 2: I just it just seems in the early going like

1518
01:09:25,119 --> 01:09:28,199
Reddick is like he got all the big stuff right,

1519
01:09:28,279 --> 01:09:30,319
which is the Davis needs to touch the ball more,

1520
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:32,760
Austin Reeves needs to be like freed up to do

1521
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:35,880
more on ball stuff, and we we don't need Lebron

1522
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,359
to be super high usage. He's kind of like got

1523
01:09:38,399 --> 01:09:40,720
big stuff handled and then like the small stuff like

1524
01:09:41,119 --> 01:09:44,279
I don't know, single possession subs or like always having

1525
01:09:44,279 --> 01:09:46,720
a good ato, like all all that, all that stuff

1526
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:49,600
he seems to have checked down checked the box for too.

1527
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:52,960
So like it's early, but it does just feel like

1528
01:09:53,239 --> 01:09:56,479
he has and it's again it's a whole staff, and

1529
01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:58,880
it's like there's a team of guys actually playing. So

1530
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:01,840
you can't credit everything the coach, but like everything feels

1531
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:04,279
kind of organized and optimized, like it does feel like

1532
01:10:04,359 --> 01:10:06,279
they're doing all this the best that they can with

1533
01:10:06,319 --> 01:10:08,239
what they got, which is really all you can ask

1534
01:10:08,279 --> 01:10:08,960
for from a coach.

1535
01:10:09,319 --> 01:10:13,119
Speaker 1: Let's go to the Memphis Grizzlies and my overreaction for them,

1536
01:10:13,119 --> 01:10:16,720
mister Grant Hughes is Taylor Jenkins joined a basketball coach's

1537
01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:19,600
cult that mandate you have luscious but not too bushy

1538
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:22,399
beards and also can't play anyone thirty minutes per game,

1539
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:24,319
even when you have some players who definitely need to

1540
01:10:24,359 --> 01:10:25,640
be playing thirty minutes per game.

1541
01:10:26,439 --> 01:10:29,159
Speaker 2: Now, this is the soberest overreaction you've had so far.

1542
01:10:29,199 --> 01:10:30,760
I believe this is one hundred percent.

1543
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:32,319
Speaker 1: Of the fact. I just I don't even want to

1544
01:10:32,319 --> 01:10:35,239
spend too much time on the Grizzlies because I still

1545
01:10:35,319 --> 01:10:37,840
just want to see them get healthier and understand what's happening.

1546
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:40,239
But I think the crux of my issue here with

1547
01:10:40,279 --> 01:10:42,840
I don't think they've been bad. I just grant who

1548
01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:44,239
leads them in minutes per game right now?

1549
01:10:44,319 --> 01:10:45,840
Speaker 2: I was just gonna ask you that because I was

1550
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:47,159
looking at it and I was like, no way, he's

1551
01:10:47,159 --> 01:10:49,279
gonna guess this. It's Sadi Aldama.

1552
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:53,199
Speaker 1: And then I understand that injuries have been a part

1553
01:10:53,239 --> 01:10:55,960
of the equation, but it's getting harder and harder for

1554
01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:57,720
me to descern what the plan will be when or

1555
01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:01,239
if this roster is ever fully healthy. Is the recently

1556
01:11:01,279 --> 01:11:04,920
converted to a standard deal Jay Huff a mainstay, the

1557
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:08,039
product of Zach Edie needing a treadmill, or Jaron Jackson

1558
01:11:08,079 --> 01:11:11,760
Junior's minutes restriction? Does are we witnessing the new normal

1559
01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:14,439
for Marcus Smart the new normal being sub thirty five

1560
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:17,319
percent on twos and sub twenty percent on threes, and

1561
01:11:17,319 --> 01:11:19,960
he's playing fewer minutes per game than Jake Larevia and

1562
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:23,039
Scotty Pippen Jr. Is Jalen Well's gonna be the next

1563
01:11:23,039 --> 01:11:26,039
to leap frog him? What is Santi Aldama in the

1564
01:11:26,119 --> 01:11:29,640
rotation when others return and aren't on a minute cap

1565
01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:32,199
and when Edie isn't in foul trouble? Is he a

1566
01:11:32,239 --> 01:11:35,119
power forward? A five, A three? Is he perhaps a

1567
01:11:35,119 --> 01:11:37,479
three point nine six two five eighty four somewhere in between?

1568
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:40,840
And also, by the way, guys that haven't played, where

1569
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:43,560
do Luke Canard and Vince Williams Junior and GG Jackson

1570
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:46,159
the second fit into this? Doesn't sound like Gig's gonna

1571
01:11:46,159 --> 01:11:48,880
be back, Like even at the start of twenty twenty five,

1572
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:52,039
At this point, I just does this all somehow end

1573
01:11:52,119 --> 01:11:53,880
with John Morant coming off the bench or something. I

1574
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:57,680
honestly just don't. It's not I'm not even this. I'm

1575
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:00,760
more so trolling, man, But like this, I this team

1576
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:03,159
is still going to be really good. But is this

1577
01:12:03,239 --> 01:12:06,640
a matter of they're too injured, too deep, they still

1578
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:09,119
don't know what they're trying to do, Like what is happening?

1579
01:12:09,279 --> 01:12:12,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's weirdly both, right, like you could imagine it,

1580
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:14,760
like just the Warriors are kind of a similar thing

1581
01:12:14,760 --> 01:12:16,840
where I got to play a million guys, so nobody's

1582
01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:19,600
playing thirty minutes. But it's like the Grizzlies came into

1583
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:21,600
this season with a bunch of injuries. This is the

1584
01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:25,439
last situation you would have expected sub thirty minutes for everybody, right,

1585
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:28,159
it's all they're gonna have to lean on X SO

1586
01:12:28,279 --> 01:12:30,600
and so because they don't have Gg Jackson or Vince Williams.

1587
01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:32,159
And Jared Jackson was heard to start the year like

1588
01:12:32,199 --> 01:12:34,720
so Oldama, I guess he is the minutes leader, but like,

1589
01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:37,039
oh Oldama's gonna have to play thirty five a night,

1590
01:12:37,119 --> 01:12:39,079
and Jaw just you can't take Jaw off the floor

1591
01:12:39,199 --> 01:12:41,119
you need it. You can't trust Scotti, Pippen, Junr. And

1592
01:12:41,159 --> 01:12:43,439
it's like, well, you do have a bunch of injuries,

1593
01:12:43,439 --> 01:12:45,239
but it turns out you got several guys that just

1594
01:12:45,359 --> 01:12:48,720
like are closer to rotation players, and maybe you thought

1595
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:51,199
they were gonna be the Marcus Smart of it all,

1596
01:12:51,239 --> 01:12:53,520
Like that's where the minutes can just go away from.

1597
01:12:55,319 --> 01:12:57,880
Speaker 1: Jaellen Wells did leap frog him in minutes per game.

1598
01:12:58,079 --> 01:13:00,239
I dotted this down.

1599
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:02,479
Speaker 2: Smart Smart does not look good. Uh and boy that's

1600
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:07,199
man just just a continuing another entry in the Grizzlies

1601
01:13:07,279 --> 01:13:10,279
just losing every trade like that just.

1602
01:13:10,319 --> 01:13:13,479
Speaker 1: Like also a compliment to the Celtic's ability to strip

1603
01:13:13,479 --> 01:13:15,479
a motion from the equation and trade the hearts and

1604
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:17,479
souls of their team. They did it with Isaiah Thomas

1605
01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:19,800
when he was injured, and then they did it with

1606
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:22,600
I'm not I really the human element of it sucks, but.

1607
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:24,800
Speaker 2: That the Smart trade was like, yeah, no, we know

1608
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:27,039
he's cooked, Like we gotta get off this money.

1609
01:13:27,079 --> 01:13:30,720
Speaker 1: Like that was right and also his day just I

1610
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:32,720
don't know how good the Grizzlies are going to be

1611
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:35,560
if this is just kind of the the state of things,

1612
01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:39,039
is it? Are you more so impressed with what they've done?

1613
01:13:39,119 --> 01:13:41,119
I mean they're seventh in offense and like their defense

1614
01:13:41,159 --> 01:13:43,359
is having around the average jaws looked. I was a

1615
01:13:43,359 --> 01:13:44,840
little bit worried when he had that was it the

1616
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:47,159
thigh injury? But he only yes the game, so that

1617
01:13:47,239 --> 01:13:48,479
at least feel good about Jaw.

1618
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:51,479
Speaker 2: Right now, I feel good about Jaw and I feel

1619
01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:55,000
good about I hate that Desmond Bain's hurt again, But

1620
01:13:55,039 --> 01:13:55,560
why are.

1621
01:13:55,640 --> 01:13:58,079
Speaker 1: Not someone who is like like those are there? I

1622
01:13:58,119 --> 01:14:00,680
get even I think he's the one player I look

1623
01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:03,279
at and say coming into this season, like, why does

1624
01:14:03,279 --> 01:14:05,319
it seem like he was on an artificial minutes cap

1625
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:07,239
dealing with an injury we to know about.

1626
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:09,880
Speaker 2: Maybe they're all just maybe they're just so scared of

1627
01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:13,239
like everybody getting hurt like last year, to where it's like, well,

1628
01:14:13,239 --> 01:14:14,439
we'll just do something else.

1629
01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:17,039
Speaker 1: It's the head coach is called that Taylor Jenkins joint.

1630
01:14:17,159 --> 01:14:18,039
That's what it was, all.

1631
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:21,119
Speaker 2: Right, Dan Tyler Hero is a change man. He has

1632
01:14:21,199 --> 01:14:25,199
undergone an evolution. He maybe also you know, went to

1633
01:14:25,239 --> 01:14:30,520
see a spiritual leader that that scared the like exercise

1634
01:14:30,600 --> 01:14:34,000
the mid range demons from from his soul. His shot

1635
01:14:34,039 --> 01:14:36,039
profile has changed, and this is going to help the

1636
01:14:36,079 --> 01:14:38,880
Miami Heat not be a bottom ten offense forever, which

1637
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:40,960
is what they've been last year, in the year before

1638
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:43,399
and currently are now. So this is a big overreaction

1639
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:46,159
because Hero is gonna have to be better. But so

1640
01:14:46,399 --> 01:14:48,640
he's in the nineties First of all, he's been reclassified

1641
01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:51,000
on cleaning Glass as a wing, so the percentiles are

1642
01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:53,880
a little funky, but ninety second percentile among wings in

1643
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:56,279
non corner three point of temper eight was never a

1644
01:14:56,399 --> 01:14:59,560
high non corner three point of temperate. Guy mid rangers

1645
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:01,439
are just not part of the shot diet anymore to

1646
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:05,119
like a shocking degree for someone who if you just

1647
01:15:05,199 --> 01:15:07,960
picture Tyler Hero in your mind, what you see is

1648
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:09,960
someone coming off a pin down and shooting like a

1649
01:15:10,039 --> 01:15:14,239
nineteen footer, maybe with the dribble Pepperdin there. So he's

1650
01:15:14,279 --> 01:15:15,920
taking more than half his shots from three for the

1651
01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:19,520
first time ever in his career. And if you're looking for, like,

1652
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:23,600
how do the heat construct an offense that can keep

1653
01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:25,960
up with a defense that historically has been very good,

1654
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:30,560
like top ten every single year going back to fourteen

1655
01:15:30,600 --> 01:15:32,239
to fifteen, and then you got a bunch more top

1656
01:15:32,319 --> 01:15:34,600
tens before that, so the defense is always good. Can

1657
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:38,159
you get enough scoring? And if you're not going to

1658
01:15:38,199 --> 01:15:40,439
make a big broster altering trade, one of the ways

1659
01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:42,000
to do that is to fix the shot diet of

1660
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:45,079
someone that you're already really depending on for offense. And

1661
01:15:45,159 --> 01:15:47,840
so so far Hero looks like a very different type

1662
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:48,239
of player.

1663
01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:50,920
Speaker 1: Do you buy into it being sustainable? Because I think

1664
01:15:51,039 --> 01:15:53,199
this might be me sip in the early season coolie,

1665
01:15:53,199 --> 01:15:53,920
I think I buy it.

1666
01:15:54,560 --> 01:15:57,680
Speaker 2: It's so extreme that it feels like it was an

1667
01:15:57,680 --> 01:16:01,199
offseason point of discussion and like yeah, so short answer, yeah,

1668
01:16:01,239 --> 01:16:03,560
because like if it were just ten percent here or there,

1669
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:06,159
maybe not. But like the mid rangers are gone, Like

1670
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:10,960
so that's that's clearly like that's a deliberate thing that

1671
01:16:11,119 --> 01:16:14,119
the Heat and Hero are on, you know, in lockstep on.

1672
01:16:15,039 --> 01:16:18,880
Speaker 1: They're like getting them outside of being a bottom ten offense,

1673
01:16:18,880 --> 01:16:20,520
you only need to climb up three spots, which this

1674
01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:24,039
time of year is nothing. Grant, they're starting lineup right

1675
01:16:24,039 --> 01:16:27,119
now six percentile on offense at ninety six point six

1676
01:16:27,119 --> 01:16:30,239
points per one hundred possessions any small sample size theater

1677
01:16:30,359 --> 01:16:32,640
here at the moment, I don't even know, like what

1678
01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:35,760
would be that you have. You're starting Rosier and Hero

1679
01:16:36,159 --> 01:16:38,079
and so those are your two best floor spacers on

1680
01:16:38,119 --> 01:16:40,159
the team. I guess the only thing you could say is, hey,

1681
01:16:40,239 --> 01:16:43,239
let's throw Duncan Robinson in there for Nikole Jyovich at

1682
01:16:43,279 --> 01:16:44,760
this point, and I don't know what that does to

1683
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:47,640
you defensively, but that lineup hasn't even been good defensively

1684
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:50,399
as it is. I think in part because Jimmy Butler

1685
01:16:50,399 --> 01:16:52,880
and bam Adebayo are like, oh, we're just they're already

1686
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:55,359
kind of you probably get a little bit worse defensively

1687
01:16:55,399 --> 01:16:57,520
going from Yovich to Duncan Robinson, so there's not going

1688
01:16:57,600 --> 01:17:00,760
to be just some monster uptick offense. And this is,

1689
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:03,039
by the way, Duncan Robinson's role, Like he's shooting what

1690
01:17:03,119 --> 01:17:04,840
is he twenty three percent from three for the year.

1691
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:08,319
So I just don't like, I don't know what the

1692
01:17:08,520 --> 01:17:11,840
solve is for this team in house, and I don't like,

1693
01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:14,840
have could you go with him Hawks and lead into

1694
01:17:14,880 --> 01:17:17,039
the defense. I know we're getting kind of far afield

1695
01:17:17,039 --> 01:17:20,079
from Tyler Herro, but what is their pathway out of

1696
01:17:20,159 --> 01:17:22,800
being mediocre at the moment?

1697
01:17:23,239 --> 01:17:25,239
Speaker 2: It's tough. I mean, I think the defense will be

1698
01:17:25,319 --> 01:17:27,159
much better than it is right now. That's that's part

1699
01:17:27,199 --> 01:17:29,119
of it. I do think, having said all that about

1700
01:17:29,159 --> 01:17:30,960
hero like, this will still be a team that if

1701
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:33,000
it is good, it will be because the defense is good,

1702
01:17:33,119 --> 01:17:36,159
like just because that's the heat recipe. I actually thought

1703
01:17:36,159 --> 01:17:38,680
the other day watching them, I wonder if I don't

1704
01:17:38,720 --> 01:17:40,720
know why. This is something I've been thinking about more

1705
01:17:41,079 --> 01:17:43,520
with certain guys, but like, are they starting Yovic to

1706
01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:45,880
showcase him, because it's like I would just rather have

1707
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:48,640
Hawkes out there, right if, like just as a as

1708
01:17:48,680 --> 01:17:51,439
a total floor game player, Like you know, you're not

1709
01:17:51,479 --> 01:17:53,359
getting the shooting, but you get more of kind of

1710
01:17:53,399 --> 01:17:56,279
everything else with Hawkes. And I think Hawkes is clearly

1711
01:17:56,279 --> 01:17:59,319
more important to the Heat long term than Yovic. So

1712
01:17:59,479 --> 01:18:02,399
like it just I think that would be my move,

1713
01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:04,279
even though like on on its face you'd say, well,

1714
01:18:04,359 --> 01:18:07,159
Yovic is a spacing four, so like you do want

1715
01:18:07,239 --> 01:18:09,000
him out there for offense. I just think Hawkes is

1716
01:18:09,039 --> 01:18:11,640
a better overall player, like some of the passing post

1717
01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:15,000
ups like that kind of stuff might just might counterintuitively

1718
01:18:15,079 --> 01:18:17,039
be better for them offensively than Yovic.

1719
01:18:17,880 --> 01:18:19,840
Speaker 1: I guess that would be a thought. I just don't.

1720
01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:22,520
I don't how much I guess you're what you're saying

1721
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:24,880
is so lean into Hawkys and just go sort of

1722
01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:27,920
like defense there, like let's try and bring back because

1723
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:31,119
they weren't starting Hawkas last year, and they started Yovic too,

1724
01:18:31,159 --> 01:18:33,920
like they played him a ton alongside Bam, So I

1725
01:18:33,920 --> 01:18:35,199
I don't know what the answer.

1726
01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:36,920
Speaker 2: Is no, it's not easy. It's not obvious.

1727
01:18:37,079 --> 01:18:38,880
Speaker 1: There's been a little I would say they've been a

1728
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:41,239
little bit burned by three pointers. I think opponents a

1729
01:18:41,239 --> 01:18:44,560
stree like forty five percent unopen threes and forty three

1730
01:18:44,600 --> 01:18:46,239
percent and three overall. So I agree with you that

1731
01:18:46,279 --> 01:18:49,159
the defense will like tick down and Jimmy Butler will

1732
01:18:49,199 --> 01:18:52,600
probably be better. But like, I just don't know. I

1733
01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:54,239
don't know how to feel them and the pacers, like

1734
01:18:54,239 --> 01:18:55,359
two of the teams is like I don't really know

1735
01:18:55,399 --> 01:18:56,000
how to feel.

1736
01:18:55,760 --> 01:18:56,239
Speaker 2: About you guys.

1737
01:18:56,279 --> 01:18:59,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, early, Still we move on to the moll.

1738
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:04,079
Speaker 2: This is uh, this is it's hard to avoid the

1739
01:19:04,640 --> 01:19:07,720
hyperboleon hot takes with this one. The Milwaukee Bucks are

1740
01:19:07,800 --> 01:19:11,319
up next, and the overreaction is this guy is falling

1741
01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:15,159
this team. It's time to blow it up. Jannis, we've

1742
01:19:15,199 --> 01:19:18,560
got we got our first first. Jannis might have wandering

1743
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:22,159
eyes or might be movable with the nets in the heat.

1744
01:19:22,359 --> 01:19:24,159
I think it was Bill Ryder of CBS Sports had

1745
01:19:24,199 --> 01:19:28,279
this the other day. Uh, not a shock, just given

1746
01:19:28,279 --> 01:19:31,439
the circumstances and the team's trajectory, and like what the

1747
01:19:31,479 --> 01:19:35,319
next five ish years might look like. Bucks, as we're

1748
01:19:35,319 --> 01:19:38,079
recording are one and four. They've got some bad losses

1749
01:19:38,199 --> 01:19:41,199
against some teams that they shouldn't be losing to and

1750
01:19:41,279 --> 01:19:45,159
that aren't even healthy. That Memphis loss on I guess

1751
01:19:45,199 --> 01:19:49,760
as yes, last night being one of those. It's just rough,

1752
01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:51,920
like in you know, Middleton's supposed to come back as

1753
01:19:51,960 --> 01:19:56,399
we're recording this today November first, that just doesn't seem

1754
01:19:56,520 --> 01:19:58,359
like the cure all that it would need to be.

1755
01:19:59,439 --> 01:20:03,119
It's a it's it's rough. Like Giannis has been super productive,

1756
01:20:03,159 --> 01:20:05,279
but he's playing differently. Maybe you can touch on that.

1757
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:10,239
Lopez is looking older, Dame has been you know, good enough,

1758
01:20:10,359 --> 01:20:12,720
I guess. But then you've got a bunch of minimum

1759
01:20:12,720 --> 01:20:15,840
guys that are playing huge roles and as valuable as

1760
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:18,880
Gary Trent is for like what he's being paid, it's

1761
01:20:18,920 --> 01:20:22,920
still the case that like he's too important. The doc

1762
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:25,119
rivers of it all, like that's just I think, I

1763
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:27,920
don't know, it's hard to be enthused right now. I

1764
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:31,279
know we're doing overreactions, but like it's it's not good

1765
01:20:31,319 --> 01:20:32,760
for the Bucks at the moment in a way that

1766
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:33,640
feels kind of real.

1767
01:20:34,359 --> 01:20:36,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and we did. I did a deeper

1768
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:38,720
dive on this response to report. So you can go

1769
01:20:38,800 --> 01:20:41,600
check out that on one of the previous episodes. But Giannis,

1770
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:43,960
I think he was he was not the problem against

1771
01:20:43,960 --> 01:20:47,000
the Grizzlies when they just got absolutely trucked PROA the problem.

1772
01:20:47,039 --> 01:20:49,680
Speaker 2: It's not him, right, It's like he's.

1773
01:20:49,479 --> 01:20:51,600
Speaker 1: Culpable in the sense like he's playing too differently. And

1774
01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:54,079
I wondered how much that was. Is this an active

1775
01:20:54,079 --> 01:20:55,960
decision by him or the coaching staff. Is it a

1776
01:20:55,960 --> 01:20:58,760
response to Chris Middleton being out, but like he shouldn't

1777
01:20:58,760 --> 01:21:01,039
be dribbling or initiating as much. The number of his

1778
01:21:01,079 --> 01:21:04,119
baskets that were self created were way up from last year.

1779
01:21:04,399 --> 01:21:06,560
More of them are coming off of just like three

1780
01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:09,319
to six plus dribbles at that point, and you don't

1781
01:21:09,319 --> 01:21:11,439
want that from Giannis, especially if you're operating in the

1782
01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:14,119
half quarter majority of the time. I think what that

1783
01:21:14,359 --> 01:21:17,279
was somewhat troubling to me. I think what was is

1784
01:21:17,479 --> 01:21:20,840
a bigger deal still is just they look old. They

1785
01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:23,159
can look slow, especially like because you could talk yourself

1786
01:21:23,159 --> 01:21:25,039
and say, okay, you know what, Gary trans Junior is

1787
01:21:25,079 --> 01:21:27,159
going to shoot better from three, He's not going to

1788
01:21:27,159 --> 01:21:29,960
be sub thirty percent forever. Same with Brook Lopez, A,

1789
01:21:29,960 --> 01:21:32,560
Bobby Portos has been bad. Can you could talk like

1790
01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:34,680
his value is on offense though, so if he's not

1791
01:21:34,720 --> 01:21:37,680
really playing well on there, what is he giving you elsewhere?

1792
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:40,880
Not a ton? So I guess you could talk yourself

1793
01:21:40,920 --> 01:21:42,800
and saying, you know what, the offense is just going

1794
01:21:42,800 --> 01:21:45,159
to be fine it eventually. Can it be at the

1795
01:21:45,199 --> 01:21:46,760
peak of what it should be when you look at

1796
01:21:46,800 --> 01:21:47,279
the personnel?

1797
01:21:47,279 --> 01:21:47,319
Speaker 2: No?

1798
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:49,079
Speaker 1: Is it going to be twenty fourth? Also?

1799
01:21:49,119 --> 01:21:49,199
Speaker 2: No?

1800
01:21:49,279 --> 01:21:50,960
Speaker 1: Could it be tenth still by the end of the year.

1801
01:21:51,079 --> 01:21:51,960
Middleton coming back?

1802
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:52,239
Speaker 2: Sure?

1803
01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:57,520
Speaker 1: Defensively, man, though this team they are getting like blitzed

1804
01:21:57,560 --> 01:22:01,000
at points in transition again, and it's a lot of

1805
01:22:01,039 --> 01:22:02,720
it is kind of the Okay, they're doing a better

1806
01:22:02,840 --> 01:22:06,079
job of getting back, but like sometimes they're just learning

1807
01:22:06,119 --> 01:22:08,600
teams operate and semi transition after their making shots, and

1808
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:10,199
so it's like, oh, they're not getting back or they're

1809
01:22:10,239 --> 01:22:13,479
not as locked in. I still the team. You look

1810
01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:16,840
at them, and their defensive rebounding rate has been eighth

1811
01:22:17,039 --> 01:22:19,479
this year, so that's fine, But like they're not forcing

1812
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:22,359
turnovers on defense at all. I guess they're not fouling

1813
01:22:22,359 --> 01:22:24,640
a ton particularly, but the ball containment when you watch

1814
01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:27,039
them at least feels like it's been kind of sort

1815
01:22:27,039 --> 01:22:31,039
of a major issue once again. So I don't you

1816
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:34,640
look at them and it's okay, they have NBA players,

1817
01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:38,000
but the depth on defense clearly isn't there. And when

1818
01:22:38,039 --> 01:22:42,479
you combine that with what is happening to them on offense,

1819
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:44,119
because you look at a lot of these guys who

1820
01:22:44,159 --> 01:22:46,199
are just not playing up to snuff, or they're they're

1821
01:22:46,199 --> 01:22:49,000
missing shots or how hard it looks like, you know, Yiannis,

1822
01:22:49,319 --> 01:22:51,439
that's even if we remove the blame from him, he

1823
01:22:51,479 --> 01:22:53,399
should not have to be working as hard as he

1824
01:22:53,560 --> 01:22:55,520
is for the shots that he's been taking. So whether

1825
01:22:55,600 --> 01:22:57,880
that's by choice or by design out of what they

1826
01:22:58,000 --> 01:23:00,760
views necessity, I don't know, but just having Dame on

1827
01:23:00,800 --> 01:23:04,319
this team, that should not be the case in general either.

1828
01:23:04,359 --> 01:23:08,000
And so you're dealing with this offensive awkwardness and you

1829
01:23:08,039 --> 01:23:11,840
don't have margins for error there because your defense, I guess,

1830
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:13,840
was not built to be good in the first place.

1831
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:16,159
Is how you would frame it, which is fair because

1832
01:23:16,199 --> 01:23:18,319
they struggled there last year. They got a little bit better,

1833
01:23:18,720 --> 01:23:21,680
but you just added Gary Trent Junior and Delon Wright

1834
01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:23,800
and Torrey in Prince. It's not like you overhauled your

1835
01:23:23,840 --> 01:23:26,039
defense and Brook Lopez. I still think its valuable there,

1836
01:23:26,079 --> 01:23:28,520
but he's a year older, Giannis is a year older,

1837
01:23:28,760 --> 01:23:30,640
Dame is a year older, which is gonna hurt your

1838
01:23:30,680 --> 01:23:34,800
ball containment. So it's really just sort of all over

1839
01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:37,840
the place. For me. I think I buy into this idea,

1840
01:23:37,960 --> 01:23:41,560
though I don't think Giannis will crush a trade mid season.

1841
01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:43,680
That would honestly shock me. So I don't know that

1842
01:23:43,680 --> 01:23:46,800
we've reached that level of dire just yet. But I

1843
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:48,359
think you look at this and the fact that their

1844
01:23:48,399 --> 01:23:51,439
set defense is I think their set defense is twenty

1845
01:23:51,439 --> 01:23:55,199
seventh in points lat per possession, which is inexcusable. I

1846
01:23:55,279 --> 01:23:57,560
look at it and I say, the sky is falling.

1847
01:23:57,640 --> 01:24:00,800
Feels like a proper response to their body language, the struggles,

1848
01:24:00,840 --> 01:24:03,239
and just knowing that, do you think Chris Middleton comes

1849
01:24:03,239 --> 01:24:05,439
in and even if they wind up having the seventh

1850
01:24:05,479 --> 01:24:07,600
best offense in the league, is that better to offset

1851
01:24:07,640 --> 01:24:09,880
and say some of these players shoot better. How much

1852
01:24:09,880 --> 01:24:11,760
of their struggles do you look at right now to

1853
01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:14,720
tribute to? Oh, the offense just really hasn't been good enough.

1854
01:24:15,119 --> 01:24:18,079
Speaker 2: No, not many. I do think if you look at

1855
01:24:18,079 --> 01:24:21,479
the statistical profile, it is that of an old slow team.

1856
01:24:21,880 --> 01:24:24,479
And like they're there and that's contributing to them losing

1857
01:24:24,479 --> 01:24:26,640
the possession battle like pretty badly. They're dead last and

1858
01:24:26,720 --> 01:24:30,039
offensive rebounding. Now that's schematic one, but like, also you

1859
01:24:30,079 --> 01:24:33,159
can't be dead last and offensive rebounding and also be

1860
01:24:33,199 --> 01:24:35,640
a bad transition defense like you got like one or

1861
01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:38,319
the other has to be at least okay, right, And

1862
01:24:38,399 --> 01:24:40,600
they don't ever force turnovers, So it just tells me

1863
01:24:40,640 --> 01:24:45,199
that they're not they're not like out physicality ing or

1864
01:24:45,239 --> 01:24:47,520
like they're not beating teams or competing even like with

1865
01:24:47,680 --> 01:24:51,840
athleticism or physical play. And that's just they're older, they're slower,

1866
01:24:52,399 --> 01:24:55,680
they're you know, like Dame isn't like moving anybody other

1867
01:24:55,800 --> 01:24:57,800
than Yannis. It's just everybody's kind of out there. And

1868
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:01,039
then to move on from the like analytical side of it,

1869
01:25:01,840 --> 01:25:03,720
like do you I don't have any faith that Doc

1870
01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:06,119
Rivers is like the guy to fix this. I just

1871
01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:09,000
you know it just what have we seen from him

1872
01:25:09,079 --> 01:25:12,239
in the last decade that suggests like this is the

1873
01:25:12,279 --> 01:25:15,119
guy that writes ships. I feel like the opposite is

1874
01:25:15,199 --> 01:25:16,880
kind of the case with him lately.

1875
01:25:17,359 --> 01:25:20,319
Speaker 1: Right, And I would also say too that I think

1876
01:25:20,319 --> 01:25:22,239
people might point out that the Bucks are not playing

1877
01:25:22,319 --> 01:25:25,159
like too slower relative to the league average. They're eleventh,

1878
01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:28,000
that's still slower than last year, and like when that's

1879
01:25:28,039 --> 01:25:30,439
supposed to be part of your identity. But I was

1880
01:25:30,439 --> 01:25:32,079
going to ask you, did you see an apologies if

1881
01:25:32,119 --> 01:25:33,720
you mentioned this? Did you see him a report from

1882
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:37,479
Bill Ryder that apparently Doc Rivers has become like assuming

1883
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:40,159
more power in the decision. Did you mention that? I apologize?

1884
01:25:40,239 --> 01:25:42,119
Speaker 2: No, no, no, but I saw that. I didn't mention it. I mean,

1885
01:25:42,159 --> 01:25:46,239
that's that's a that's an emergency, like that's a problem.

1886
01:25:46,439 --> 01:25:49,119
Speaker 1: They the report kind of said that he will make

1887
01:25:49,159 --> 01:25:51,439
the decision of what happens with the team after twenty games.

1888
01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:53,800
I do know if he is in power to decide

1889
01:25:53,800 --> 01:25:58,319
whether Gianni stays or goes, just the Bucks franchise should

1890
01:25:58,319 --> 01:26:00,560
be deleted from existence at that point or owners should

1891
01:26:00,560 --> 01:26:03,720
at least be forced to sell because that is mind

1892
01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:06,039
mouthingly fucking stupid there.

1893
01:26:06,359 --> 01:26:08,720
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a gross over simplification. But their

1894
01:26:08,720 --> 01:26:11,239
record is worse with him than with Adrian Griffin, like

1895
01:26:11,279 --> 01:26:13,920
by a lot, and Adrian Griffin was not doing a

1896
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:15,960
good job, Like, so what do we call this?

1897
01:26:16,279 --> 01:26:20,720
Speaker 1: I mean the and I just again, I'm not do

1898
01:26:20,720 --> 01:26:25,239
you immediately the concern level for this team is high

1899
01:26:25,319 --> 01:26:27,239
when you're looking at the performance on the court, looking

1900
01:26:27,239 --> 01:26:29,479
at the off court, the rumors, and I think it's

1901
01:26:29,479 --> 01:26:33,079
more so the vultures and the lusting that's happening outside Milwaukee.

1902
01:26:33,359 --> 01:26:35,760
Do you assign any urgency or concern to actually that

1903
01:26:36,239 --> 01:26:38,520
or do you just think it's more likely if anything

1904
01:26:38,520 --> 01:26:42,159
along those lines happens. It's so it's so much more

1905
01:26:42,199 --> 01:26:43,079
of an offseason thing.

1906
01:26:44,319 --> 01:26:47,319
Speaker 2: I mean, if you just erase the particulars, and I

1907
01:26:48,840 --> 01:26:52,279
presented you with the following situation of this team wanted.

1908
01:26:52,319 --> 01:26:54,239
There's a team that won a title a few years ago,

1909
01:26:54,399 --> 01:26:57,119
has a great player who's getting older. It's a small

1910
01:26:57,159 --> 01:26:59,680
market team. The core around him has gotten old. There's

1911
01:26:59,680 --> 01:27:02,399
no flexibility. The coach is doing a bad job. Nobody

1912
01:27:02,399 --> 01:27:06,159
thinks he's the answer. There's a possibility this star might

1913
01:27:06,239 --> 01:27:08,960
ask out sooner than later. What do you think the

1914
01:27:09,039 --> 01:27:11,399
right thing to do? Is you would say start looking

1915
01:27:11,399 --> 01:27:14,119
at trades, right, like you That's just that's what you

1916
01:27:14,159 --> 01:27:16,640
would do if you didn't know it was Yiannis and

1917
01:27:16,680 --> 01:27:19,720
the Bucks and whatever else. So, like, I think you're

1918
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:23,760
right that the offseason is probably more likely. But like

1919
01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:26,680
these things can accelerate real fast, and like it could

1920
01:27:26,720 --> 01:27:28,720
get to a point where it is, in fact, like

1921
01:27:29,399 --> 01:27:33,399
the objectively correct decision to start shopping Yannis, like that,

1922
01:27:33,680 --> 01:27:35,680
I don't you don't do that after you know, one

1923
01:27:35,720 --> 01:27:38,520
win in your first five games. But the longer this

1924
01:27:38,640 --> 01:27:40,359
goes and the less light there is at the end

1925
01:27:40,399 --> 01:27:42,600
of the tunnel, the more it's just like the responsible

1926
01:27:42,720 --> 01:27:45,199
choice to start being proactive about it.

1927
01:27:45,680 --> 01:27:49,119
Speaker 1: Again, this is the Trey Young situation. Gianness will get

1928
01:27:49,199 --> 01:27:51,239
you more than Trey Young if you're not getting your

1929
01:27:51,279 --> 01:27:52,880
own picks back. That's why when I when I was

1930
01:27:52,880 --> 01:27:55,119
recording solo, I named New Orleans is kind of a

1931
01:27:55,199 --> 01:27:58,079
nice dark course because if they offered you control of

1932
01:27:58,159 --> 01:28:01,640
twenty six and twenty seven back mm hmm and then

1933
01:28:01,720 --> 01:28:03,640
other stuff, they have other first to give they have

1934
01:28:04,039 --> 01:28:05,640
I mean maybe and if the Bucks still want to

1935
01:28:05,680 --> 01:28:07,880
be good you brandon Ingram is probably a key salary

1936
01:28:07,880 --> 01:28:10,800
in that deal. But like, if you're not getting control

1937
01:28:10,840 --> 01:28:12,239
of your own picks back, what is the value you

1938
01:28:12,239 --> 01:28:14,840
would have to still want to be good? Yeah, I

1939
01:28:14,880 --> 01:28:17,840
do think there are teams with Tree Young. I would

1940
01:28:17,840 --> 01:28:19,800
be shocked if a team gave up a current All

1941
01:28:19,840 --> 01:28:24,159
Star or someone on that trajectory with Giannis. Let's use

1942
01:28:24,159 --> 01:28:25,960
okayse as an example. I don't think I would be

1943
01:28:25,960 --> 01:28:28,560
able to pull the trigger here, but you could envision

1944
01:28:28,680 --> 01:28:30,760
Okay See talking themselves into yeah, we'll give you j

1945
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:32,439
Dubb if it means getting y honest.

1946
01:28:32,560 --> 01:28:34,680
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, yeah, no, I yeah, I think that's right.

1947
01:28:34,720 --> 01:28:37,079
I just like you zoom all the way out, and

1948
01:28:37,119 --> 01:28:39,800
like you know, Giannis has been there for his whole career.

1949
01:28:39,960 --> 01:28:42,039
He's he's not going to finish his career there like

1950
01:28:42,079 --> 01:28:44,880
almost nobody does. And so like this is happening. Eventually,

1951
01:28:45,000 --> 01:28:47,920
it just becomes a question of, like when's the smartest

1952
01:28:47,960 --> 01:28:51,279
time for Milwaukee to to just lean into what has

1953
01:28:51,359 --> 01:28:53,479
to happen. You know, I don't know if that's this year.

1954
01:28:54,039 --> 01:28:56,800
Speaker 1: I am up next with the Minnesota Timberwolves. My take

1955
01:28:56,920 --> 01:29:00,920
is overreaction. If you put two, I've Anthony Edwards on

1956
01:29:00,960 --> 01:29:03,960
the twenty fifteen Rockets, those Houston Rockets win the championship.

1957
01:29:04,239 --> 01:29:07,800
So Anthony Edwards over James Harden on that Rockets team.

1958
01:29:07,920 --> 01:29:10,760
This is just he's taken fifty three percent of his

1959
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:14,479
shots from three point range. Right now, James Harden I

1960
01:29:14,520 --> 01:29:16,520
think has done that once in his career, and I

1961
01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:18,920
don't even know if it was ever on the Houston Rockets.

1962
01:29:19,720 --> 01:29:22,439
But like this is a wholesale shift in the way

1963
01:29:22,439 --> 01:29:24,600
that Anthony Edwards is playing. I still think his life

1964
01:29:24,720 --> 01:29:27,680
is made too difficult. That points for the Timberwolves, who's

1965
01:29:27,640 --> 01:29:30,800
They're another team where I don't have a feel, like

1966
01:29:30,840 --> 01:29:32,840
a decided feel for them because I feel like I'm

1967
01:29:32,920 --> 01:29:35,319
kind of changing my opinion and outlook for them by

1968
01:29:35,359 --> 01:29:39,920
the possession. But this version of Anthony Edwards is absolutely terrifying.

1969
01:29:41,079 --> 01:29:44,960
Speaker 2: Thirteen point three three point attempts per game. That's a

1970
01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:48,640
lot for a guy that is still most dangerous going downhill.

1971
01:29:49,359 --> 01:29:51,159
You'd like to see the free throws up. I guess

1972
01:29:51,199 --> 01:29:52,920
that's the trade off, right. It's like, oh, we love it.

1973
01:29:52,920 --> 01:29:56,119
He's getting threes up. That's awesome. Someone that athletic needs

1974
01:29:56,159 --> 01:29:58,000
to get more than six free throw attempts a game,

1975
01:29:58,039 --> 01:29:59,840
which is basically where he's at now and where he

1976
01:29:59,880 --> 01:30:03,640
was was last year. I just I still I still like,

1977
01:30:03,840 --> 01:30:06,039
I still like it. Still like it's like you might

1978
01:30:06,119 --> 01:30:09,960
as well get those threes up. Uh, he's been awesome. Uh,

1979
01:30:10,720 --> 01:30:14,479
I just like do do you does the shot diet

1980
01:30:14,600 --> 01:30:18,399
change for him, like ease any of the concerns you

1981
01:30:18,520 --> 01:30:21,800
have about Minnesota's offense as a whole, and like the

1982
01:30:22,640 --> 01:30:26,840
I mean, I let just the lack of playmaking besides him.

1983
01:30:26,840 --> 01:30:28,840
I mean this this is a team that, like the

1984
01:30:28,880 --> 01:30:30,720
defense will be fine. It sort of has to be

1985
01:30:30,760 --> 01:30:32,319
based on how good it was last year, and it's

1986
01:30:32,359 --> 01:30:35,119
just an offensive question. How does how does his change

1987
01:30:35,600 --> 01:30:37,399
like make you feel one way or the other about

1988
01:30:37,399 --> 01:30:37,960
the offense.

1989
01:30:38,399 --> 01:30:40,560
Speaker 1: I do wonder if it's so you don't because he

1990
01:30:40,680 --> 01:30:43,479
was taking like some of the three point volume was

1991
01:30:43,520 --> 01:30:45,960
going to come from the rim volume, but the fact

1992
01:30:46,000 --> 01:30:48,560
that it's also come like you're looking at the the

1993
01:30:48,640 --> 01:30:51,399
overall change where it's okay, he's down to what is

1994
01:30:51,439 --> 01:30:53,439
he down on his mid range frequency? He dropped that

1995
01:30:53,479 --> 01:30:56,239
by eleven percentage points to share his shots. I think

1996
01:30:56,239 --> 01:30:58,239
I feel comfortable with it because I also view it

1997
01:30:58,239 --> 01:30:59,840
as like when you go dig into you, Okay, well,

1998
01:30:59,840 --> 01:31:03,720
how he playing independent of when there's not like Julius

1999
01:31:03,760 --> 01:31:06,239
Randall Engelbart on the court at the same time, like

2000
01:31:06,279 --> 01:31:08,439
that's an opportunity for him then be more aggressive, get

2001
01:31:08,439 --> 01:31:10,960
downhill and there should be more room to operate and

2002
01:31:10,960 --> 01:31:14,479
I don't think Julius Randall has played particularly terribly, but

2003
01:31:14,680 --> 01:31:16,199
I think that they're trying to. And a lot of

2004
01:31:16,199 --> 01:31:18,560
this too is Dante DiVincenzo is still shooting sub thirty

2005
01:31:18,600 --> 01:31:21,520
percent from three. I doubt that hole Jane McDaniels, by

2006
01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:24,880
the way, doing his best sub twenty percent impression. Again,

2007
01:31:25,359 --> 01:31:28,159
I almost feel like this overreaction, well, I've kind of

2008
01:31:28,279 --> 01:31:30,720
enjoyed it from Edwards, or at least I think it

2009
01:31:30,760 --> 01:31:34,079
shows an understanding of what they need, the lineup circumstances,

2010
01:31:34,079 --> 01:31:38,680
the personnel circumstances, excuse me, around him, it's almost doesn't

2011
01:31:38,680 --> 01:31:41,560
it kind of suck that this uptick needs to come

2012
01:31:41,600 --> 01:31:44,439
from him, of all people. And it also still feels like,

2013
01:31:44,880 --> 01:31:47,920
do you think it's simplified? I don't know the best

2014
01:31:47,920 --> 01:31:49,479
way to frame this. When you watch him, do you

2015
01:31:49,560 --> 01:31:52,880
feel like it's simplified the work he needs to do

2016
01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:55,720
to get his shots off enough to where then okay,

2017
01:31:55,720 --> 01:31:58,560
this is definitely worth the tradeoff a little bit.

2018
01:31:58,600 --> 01:32:00,800
Speaker 2: I still can't escape. I used to feel this way

2019
01:32:01,159 --> 01:32:03,960
as is, going back a long time with like maybe

2020
01:32:04,960 --> 01:32:08,600
maybe like the early twenty tens Lebron where it was

2021
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:11,199
like every time he took a jump shot. It was like, ah,

2022
01:32:11,439 --> 01:32:15,520
missed opportunity, and Edwards isn't the same in that, like,

2023
01:32:16,560 --> 01:32:18,520
you know, every time he goes to the basketing, I

2024
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:21,479
just want I just feel like Edward's going downhill to

2025
01:32:21,479 --> 01:32:23,399
the basket is like, Okay, that's what should happen on

2026
01:32:23,399 --> 01:32:26,359
every possession if we can, you know, make that a possibility.

2027
01:32:26,439 --> 01:32:27,720
Speaker 1: I mean, I still don't think the Wolves have the

2028
01:32:27,760 --> 01:32:28,560
spacing for.

2029
01:32:28,560 --> 01:32:30,960
Speaker 2: That, right. That's the thing. It's like, you, I just

2030
01:32:31,000 --> 01:32:33,119
want him to attack because it's like, who knows what

2031
01:32:33,199 --> 01:32:35,960
might happen. And I do think to be the kind

2032
01:32:36,000 --> 01:32:39,079
of like singular offensive star that we think he can be,

2033
01:32:39,119 --> 01:32:41,119
you just you gotta be up towards nine or ten

2034
01:32:41,159 --> 01:32:43,319
free throw attempts of a game. I think that's that's that's

2035
01:32:43,319 --> 01:32:45,479
something that like should develop.

2036
01:32:46,039 --> 01:32:48,600
Speaker 1: But yeah, like I think I think it's right now.

2037
01:32:48,640 --> 01:32:49,920
I guess what I was getting at is I view

2038
01:32:50,000 --> 01:32:52,760
this as a necessary change, and it's been him where

2039
01:32:52,800 --> 01:32:55,159
more of his buckets overall are coming off assists because

2040
01:32:55,159 --> 01:32:57,479
I think that tends to happen with I guess unless

2041
01:32:57,520 --> 01:33:00,760
you actually Luca or Harden that or tra that's what

2042
01:33:00,840 --> 01:33:04,239
tends to happen. It just almost is why is he

2043
01:33:04,560 --> 01:33:07,199
the only one or the one making this shift? And

2044
01:33:07,239 --> 01:33:09,640
it's okay, you dig into it. Well, Dante Devincenzo's not shooting.

2045
01:33:09,640 --> 01:33:12,920
RealD Jade McDaniels is. He hit them during last year's playoffs,

2046
01:33:12,920 --> 01:33:15,359
but he's in terms of volume and efficiency, he's a

2047
01:33:15,399 --> 01:33:17,880
relative non threat from beyond the arc. You almost need

2048
01:33:18,000 --> 01:33:20,760
him now, Anthony Edwards to space the floor so that

2049
01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:23,159
Julius Randall and who's been by the way, I think,

2050
01:33:23,199 --> 01:33:25,880
what's Julius Randall shooting? Like fifty on three?

2051
01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:26,159
Speaker 2: Still?

2052
01:33:26,199 --> 01:33:26,920
Speaker 1: Is he in the sixties?

2053
01:33:26,960 --> 01:33:27,119
Speaker 2: Now?

2054
01:33:27,119 --> 01:33:28,920
Speaker 1: He was hitting them sixty two and a half percent

2055
01:33:28,920 --> 01:33:32,439
from three on four times per game, So like to

2056
01:33:32,479 --> 01:33:34,720
open up room for everybody else, Anthony Edwards is needed

2057
01:33:34,720 --> 01:33:37,039
to become the floor spacer. I think the adaptability he

2058
01:33:37,079 --> 01:33:40,279
has shown is a good thing. I just question is

2059
01:33:40,319 --> 01:33:43,119
it to this degree? Is it the greatest thing for

2060
01:33:43,199 --> 01:33:44,119
Minnesota's offense?

2061
01:33:44,520 --> 01:33:46,199
Speaker 2: Yeah? Probably probably not.

2062
01:33:46,479 --> 01:33:51,800
Speaker 1: We're onto the this is rough New Orleans Pelicans grant

2063
01:33:52,199 --> 01:33:55,119
this offense is cooked. Is that I've got I've got

2064
01:33:55,159 --> 01:33:58,359
thoughts and opinions, but just off off rip? Would you do?

2065
01:33:58,880 --> 01:33:59,760
Where are you at?

2066
01:34:00,800 --> 01:34:03,279
Speaker 2: My response would be like, it doesn't need to be

2067
01:34:03,399 --> 01:34:06,840
this way, like why how did this happen? But yeah,

2068
01:34:06,960 --> 01:34:08,680
I mean you can get into the deeper numbers, but

2069
01:34:08,680 --> 01:34:11,680
they're twenty eighth in scoring efficiency, they're twenty fourth in

2070
01:34:11,680 --> 01:34:13,880
effective field goal percentage, and they turn the ball over

2071
01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:17,079
a ton. So and look that's pretty cooked.

2072
01:34:17,479 --> 01:34:20,279
Speaker 1: Pretend that they're gonna shoot more threes at your own

2073
01:34:20,479 --> 01:34:22,359
I won't even say risk at this point. I think

2074
01:34:22,399 --> 01:34:25,159
it's just a delusion. They're twenty seventh and three point

2075
01:34:25,199 --> 01:34:26,960
of tenth, right, they're taking fewer threes than they were

2076
01:34:27,039 --> 01:34:29,720
last year. I was they were the team though, grant

2077
01:34:29,760 --> 01:34:31,560
that I was saying, we had some breaking news on

2078
01:34:31,600 --> 01:34:34,039
that we would need to tackle during this podcast. So

2079
01:34:34,439 --> 01:34:37,560
here's did you see the bad news? No, well here's

2080
01:34:37,600 --> 01:34:39,720
the bad news. Herb Jron is gonna be out two

2081
01:34:39,760 --> 01:34:41,720
to four weeks with a right shoulder strain and a

2082
01:34:41,720 --> 01:34:44,560
partial tear in his rotator cuff. He thinks that's gonna

2083
01:34:44,560 --> 01:34:45,520
be at least closer.

2084
01:34:45,279 --> 01:34:47,159
Speaker 2: To four weeks. Yes, yeah, CJ.

2085
01:34:47,239 --> 01:34:48,840
Speaker 1: Mccoum is gonna be out two to three weeks with

2086
01:34:48,880 --> 01:34:55,479
a right adductor strain. So they're fucked. You lost Trey

2087
01:34:55,560 --> 01:34:57,880
Murphy or Trey Murphy has yet to play this season

2088
01:34:58,439 --> 01:35:02,680
and CJ McCollum, Now those are your am I missing anyone?

2089
01:35:03,119 --> 01:35:04,920
Let me look at their roster like, those are your

2090
01:35:05,000 --> 01:35:10,159
single two most important three point shooters and now they're unavailable.

2091
01:35:10,479 --> 01:35:14,479
Where are the threes coming from? I just Brent, you can't.

2092
01:35:14,520 --> 01:35:17,119
And now you're in a position where schmid Duha had

2093
01:35:17,119 --> 01:35:19,680
pointing this out on Twitter. Even if you use Zion.

2094
01:35:19,680 --> 01:35:22,079
We we had called for more Zion as a screener,

2095
01:35:22,760 --> 01:35:25,279
and we've seen it a little bit more of the season.

2096
01:35:25,319 --> 01:35:28,119
I thought. I think with Brandon Ingram doesn't fucking matter

2097
01:35:28,159 --> 01:35:30,359
because you're just getting contested twos out of that. Because

2098
01:35:30,359 --> 01:35:32,800
Branding doesn't want to take pull up threes, Zion isn't

2099
01:35:32,800 --> 01:35:36,000
gonna pop. He's gonna need to roll. And Dejantay Murray's

2100
01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:37,600
injured as well, and I think he's at least more

2101
01:35:37,640 --> 01:35:40,119
willing to take those shots than brand Ingram. But even

2102
01:35:40,199 --> 01:35:41,920
he is, I wonder was I too high on his

2103
01:35:41,960 --> 01:35:43,800
addition in the sense of, well, is he gonna take

2104
01:35:43,880 --> 01:35:45,560
enough of them for that to work? But I think

2105
01:35:45,560 --> 01:35:48,000
there's a better chance of that all working. We have

2106
01:35:48,159 --> 01:35:50,960
seen them, you know, they've they've played the Oh Jordan

2107
01:35:51,000 --> 01:35:53,399
Hawkins is on this roster card. Like we've seen that,

2108
01:35:54,560 --> 01:35:56,840
we've seen it more, have we seen it enough? Over

2109
01:35:56,880 --> 01:35:58,720
thirty minutes per game. I never would have predicted that

2110
01:35:58,760 --> 01:36:01,119
for him, but he's been that important to them, so

2111
01:36:01,520 --> 01:36:03,399
maybe you view him as a more important four spaceer

2112
01:36:03,439 --> 01:36:06,279
thin CG. McCollum. That's fine, but you're talking about three

2113
01:36:06,279 --> 01:36:10,000
of your four most important like perimeter shooters right now

2114
01:36:10,119 --> 01:36:13,399
or out of the lineup, and there's just no excuse

2115
01:36:13,479 --> 01:36:19,199
then for them to also be grant so god damn slow.

2116
01:36:19,640 --> 01:36:22,640
This is a team that still gets out in transition.

2117
01:36:22,960 --> 01:36:24,920
But when you kind of look at the overall speed

2118
01:36:25,319 --> 01:36:29,079
of their offense, you can't be fourteenth in average possession time.

2119
01:36:29,199 --> 01:36:32,000
You are twenty fifth in average possession or excuse me,

2120
01:36:32,079 --> 01:36:35,199
you're twenty seventh in offensive efficiency after an opponent makes

2121
01:36:35,199 --> 01:36:38,359
a shot, because you can't go against these set defenses,

2122
01:36:38,760 --> 01:36:43,119
especially with this personnel. Why are you also fifteenth in

2123
01:36:43,279 --> 01:36:47,079
offensive speed speed, not even efficiency after a defensive rebound

2124
01:36:47,119 --> 01:36:50,439
you're in the you're fast after you force a turnover. Okay, great,

2125
01:36:50,479 --> 01:36:54,720
grand wonderful. Those are not the vast majority of your possessions.

2126
01:36:54,800 --> 01:36:57,439
And by the way, like can you you can't even

2127
01:36:57,479 --> 01:37:00,199
force more to your your top ten opponent turn over

2128
01:37:00,199 --> 01:37:03,520
eight already, and you watch them, this is you can

2129
01:37:03,560 --> 01:37:06,840
say the three point volume is a symptom of their personnel.

2130
01:37:07,119 --> 01:37:09,760
Their offensive process right now is not because this is

2131
01:37:09,760 --> 01:37:12,520
a team that the and I'm not saying it always works.

2132
01:37:12,560 --> 01:37:14,159
I don't know how efficient they would be. I'd argue

2133
01:37:14,199 --> 01:37:17,039
they'd probably be hella efficient because Zion Williams. By the way,

2134
01:37:17,279 --> 01:37:19,479
Zion's not blameless in all this. He has not been

2135
01:37:19,520 --> 01:37:22,079
great to start the year. No, I have confidence that

2136
01:37:22,159 --> 01:37:24,680
he will be better. But you can't be a team

2137
01:37:24,960 --> 01:37:29,439
that lacks offensive creation in the half court with the

2138
01:37:29,479 --> 01:37:32,960
right shot profile, with up with talent that is I

2139
01:37:32,960 --> 01:37:36,159
don't even know if it's redundant or just it's a

2140
01:37:36,439 --> 01:37:38,880
like it's not complimentary to one another, especially with who

2141
01:37:38,880 --> 01:37:41,239
you have available right now, and the decision is like, well,

2142
01:37:41,279 --> 01:37:43,760
we're just gonna play I can't say slow at shit,

2143
01:37:43,800 --> 01:37:45,479
but relative to what you need to play at, you're

2144
01:37:45,479 --> 01:37:49,319
playing slow at shit. So this is really disappointing, and

2145
01:37:49,560 --> 01:37:51,359
I don't know who to blame. Is that the front

2146
01:37:51,359 --> 01:37:54,119
office or the roster construction? Is it really green at

2147
01:37:54,119 --> 01:37:56,720
this point because he's not instilling more urgency in his players.

2148
01:37:56,960 --> 01:38:00,840
How much can we actually play and lean injuries for them.

2149
01:38:01,239 --> 01:38:03,880
It's just wildly disappointing to kind of see even be like,

2150
01:38:04,439 --> 01:38:06,760
we know we're inefficient when we're you know, going up

2151
01:38:06,760 --> 01:38:10,760
against set defenses, and yet we're just gonna play way

2152
01:38:10,800 --> 01:38:13,319
slower than we should be anyway, because that's and this

2153
01:38:13,479 --> 01:38:15,760
was my point before I rambled on it's not always

2154
01:38:15,760 --> 01:38:19,119
going to work, but playing at more chaotic speeds and

2155
01:38:19,159 --> 01:38:22,359
not letting defenses get fully set is a way to

2156
01:38:22,680 --> 01:38:25,159
equipse at least some of the deficit of well, now

2157
01:38:25,159 --> 01:38:27,920
you're dealing with a creation deficit, but of the floor spacing,

2158
01:38:28,199 --> 01:38:29,960
the half court dynamism.

2159
01:38:30,359 --> 01:38:33,359
Speaker 2: I think, Uh, I don't disagree with any of that.

2160
01:38:33,399 --> 01:38:36,079
I think I think to close it on a lighter note,

2161
01:38:36,159 --> 01:38:39,800
for the Pelicans, I would I would bank on multiple

2162
01:38:40,239 --> 01:38:45,239
twenty five point games from Jordan Hawkins while McCollum is out.

2163
01:38:45,479 --> 01:38:48,279
I think it was trending this way a little bit. Uh.

2164
01:38:48,720 --> 01:38:52,239
He just flat out needs to be a featured part

2165
01:38:52,279 --> 01:38:55,640
of this offense. He's definitely he is wired to like

2166
01:38:55,720 --> 01:38:59,479
get shots up like he definitely is hunting shots. He

2167
01:38:59,520 --> 01:39:02,079
moves great off the ball, He's over forty percent from

2168
01:39:02,079 --> 01:39:04,680
three and he does not take like exclusively easy shots,

2169
01:39:05,079 --> 01:39:07,079
So I think that efficiency's coming down, but he's going

2170
01:39:07,119 --> 01:39:09,840
to be forced like this thirty one minutes he's averaging

2171
01:39:09,840 --> 01:39:12,560
like that's going up, like just because you you must

2172
01:39:12,600 --> 01:39:14,279
have him on the floor if you want any kind

2173
01:39:14,319 --> 01:39:17,159
of perimeter threat to give your other guys, give your

2174
01:39:17,279 --> 01:39:20,319
ingrams and zions, like real opportunities to do anything. So

2175
01:39:20,680 --> 01:39:22,840
I don't know, this isn't a fantasy podcast, but Jordan

2176
01:39:22,880 --> 01:39:25,479
Hawkins is about to start getting some crazy numbers because

2177
01:39:25,520 --> 01:39:28,680
he's critically important suddenly, and I do think like he

2178
01:39:28,840 --> 01:39:31,560
just is capable of being a high vaulty like twenty

2179
01:39:31,600 --> 01:39:34,439
plus points scorer. I really do think he has that in.

2180
01:39:34,439 --> 01:39:36,720
Speaker 1: Him, by the way, and I think what's also is

2181
01:39:36,800 --> 01:39:38,600
just at what point do they run out of time here?

2182
01:39:38,640 --> 01:39:41,000
Because how much longer can you have? I've actually been

2183
01:39:41,000 --> 01:39:43,079
impressed with the defensive returns. I think guys are at

2184
01:39:43,119 --> 01:39:44,399
least trying more than I would have thought.

2185
01:39:44,479 --> 01:39:45,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, but.

2186
01:39:45,439 --> 01:39:47,640
Speaker 1: You're not good at ending possessions on the glass. Your

2187
01:39:47,640 --> 01:39:50,800
bottom ten of defensive rebounding, your opponents are getting to

2188
01:39:50,800 --> 01:39:52,760
the rim a bunch. You've done a good job they're

2189
01:39:52,760 --> 01:39:54,720
not shooting too well there, but they're also not shooting

2190
01:39:54,720 --> 01:39:56,960
exceptionally well from three. How much of that is the

2191
01:39:57,000 --> 01:39:59,079
Pelicans and a lot of it if it is a

2192
01:39:59,119 --> 01:40:01,600
lot on the Pelican, well, a big chunk of that

2193
01:40:01,800 --> 01:40:05,359
is gone for a month because of Herb Jones being out. Yeah,

2194
01:40:05,479 --> 01:40:08,000
and now you I think what I'm saying is I

2195
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:09,840
don't know that they had a huge margin for error

2196
01:40:09,880 --> 01:40:12,079
on defense anyway, just kind of looking at the vitals.

2197
01:40:12,279 --> 01:40:14,079
But now it's gone with Herb Jones.

2198
01:40:14,560 --> 01:40:17,560
Speaker 2: And as all the nice things I just said about

2199
01:40:17,640 --> 01:40:21,399
Jordan Hawkins, he's going to get targeted every possession on defense,

2200
01:40:21,439 --> 01:40:24,279
Like he just is too thin, doesn't have the size,

2201
01:40:24,319 --> 01:40:26,760
like he's he's a like he's a go at that

2202
01:40:26,800 --> 01:40:30,079
guy guy right now. And that's gonna like contrast that

2203
01:40:30,079 --> 01:40:32,119
with Herb Jones, who is like the last guy you

2204
01:40:32,159 --> 01:40:35,279
ever go at. That's gonna be rough. Basically swapping those minutes.

2205
01:40:35,439 --> 01:40:37,560
Speaker 1: What do you think is more likely? I guess statistically

2206
01:40:37,560 --> 01:40:39,720
it's always what the second option here will be. But

2207
01:40:39,880 --> 01:40:42,960
they make a trade or Willy Green gets fired mid season.

2208
01:40:43,920 --> 01:40:46,560
Speaker 2: Uh well, I mean that's that's pretty close. Like I

2209
01:40:46,640 --> 01:40:48,239
was going to ask you earlier, is like, do we

2210
01:40:48,399 --> 01:40:51,159
just is the lever they pull Willy Green. I don't

2211
01:40:51,159 --> 01:40:53,079
think that'll be fair. I think it's probably a trade

2212
01:40:53,079 --> 01:40:56,119
because like even if Willy Green has had some heat before,

2213
01:40:56,880 --> 01:41:00,000
you just like it's injuries right now, Like injuries are

2214
01:41:00,199 --> 01:41:03,720
the cover for the entire team. Though, yeah, that's true.

2215
01:41:03,920 --> 01:41:07,479
Speaker 1: Our next team not exactly healthy either, kause anybody cares

2216
01:41:07,520 --> 01:41:09,760
New York Knicks, they are your New York Knicks this time, though,

2217
01:41:09,760 --> 01:41:10,680
Grant make me proud.

2218
01:41:11,159 --> 01:41:13,640
Speaker 2: Damn they've already lost the cat trade already.

2219
01:41:13,760 --> 01:41:14,680
Speaker 1: That's fun.

2220
01:41:14,800 --> 01:41:19,159
Speaker 2: Adjudicated he had the forty four point night.

2221
01:41:19,439 --> 01:41:21,479
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I appreciate your boldness sticking with

2222
01:41:21,520 --> 01:41:23,800
this after he dropped the forty burger.

2223
01:41:24,239 --> 01:41:27,479
Speaker 2: Well, we are overreacting, but we can't overreact to the

2224
01:41:27,560 --> 01:41:30,319
other way to one game. I mean it's a it's

2225
01:41:30,359 --> 01:41:33,560
a standard case, like the forty four counts Like that

2226
01:41:33,680 --> 01:41:35,520
was a you know, that's what you need, that's what

2227
01:41:35,560 --> 01:41:37,640
you want. I think he was seventeen to twenty five. Like,

2228
01:41:37,760 --> 01:41:40,640
just getting that kind of shot volume is huge for

2229
01:41:40,720 --> 01:41:43,119
the Knicks offense because it just can't be bruntsing all

2230
01:41:43,119 --> 01:41:46,960
the time every night. But you look at the financial

2231
01:41:47,000 --> 01:41:49,039
components you look at the lack of depth. You look

2232
01:41:49,039 --> 01:41:51,800
at like just the weirdness of like how hard it

2233
01:41:51,920 --> 01:41:54,880
was to get him enough shots in the in the

2234
01:41:54,920 --> 01:41:56,800
first few games. We talked about this a fair amount,

2235
01:41:56,840 --> 01:42:00,279
but like, I don't know it. You know, we knew

2236
01:42:00,319 --> 01:42:04,039
that there would be like some fit issues or like

2237
01:42:04,119 --> 01:42:06,399
just some feeling out stuff, but like I never imagined

2238
01:42:06,399 --> 01:42:07,960
that one. I thought maybe it would be like, wow,

2239
01:42:08,000 --> 01:42:09,960
they really got a rain cat in, Like he's really

2240
01:42:10,079 --> 01:42:13,479
like good, Like I get how many picking pop threes.

2241
01:42:13,880 --> 01:42:16,760
It's been the opposite where it finally they got some volume.

2242
01:42:16,760 --> 01:42:18,279
But like before that, I was just like, what what

2243
01:42:18,439 --> 01:42:20,560
is he doing out there? Like how how is this

2244
01:42:20,680 --> 01:42:23,840
not turning into you know, twelve three point attempts per game.

2245
01:42:23,880 --> 01:42:27,840
I I hope that still happens. But the you know,

2246
01:42:27,920 --> 01:42:30,239
the other sides of it, we are overreacting, like lots

2247
01:42:30,279 --> 01:42:32,439
to be seen, but like hasn't been great so far.

2248
01:42:32,600 --> 01:42:34,800
We got to concede that it's.

2249
01:42:34,600 --> 01:42:37,039
Speaker 1: So bizarre because like the if you dig into the vitals,

2250
01:42:37,079 --> 01:42:38,319
it's this time of the year where any of the

2251
01:42:38,319 --> 01:42:40,199
stats were saying they could change overnight, but like that,

2252
01:42:40,359 --> 01:42:43,079
you look at the Knicks vitals and it's well relatives,

2253
01:42:43,239 --> 01:42:45,680
just like we're talking about Towns hasn't necessarily been great

2254
01:42:45,720 --> 01:42:47,640
at either end of the floor for them, And you

2255
01:42:47,680 --> 01:42:50,479
could say, okay, like and they look, they played the Celtics,

2256
01:42:50,479 --> 01:42:52,119
they played the Caves, they lost to both of them.

2257
01:42:52,119 --> 01:42:55,279
But you're at five hundred positive point different positive net

2258
01:42:55,359 --> 01:42:57,199
rating despite playing that Celtics game.

2259
01:42:57,199 --> 01:43:00,680
Speaker 2: By right, it's gonna ruin their numbers for like another month. Still,

2260
01:43:00,840 --> 01:43:01,880
it's gonna wreck everything.

2261
01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:04,000
Speaker 1: It might ruin their numbers to the entire season. Yeah,

2262
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:05,960
and like, because even if you filter out like that

2263
01:43:06,079 --> 01:43:08,880
Celtics game, they've been really like they're twenty ninth in

2264
01:43:09,000 --> 01:43:11,680
defense overall. I can't remember what the number was exactly,

2265
01:43:11,720 --> 01:43:13,520
but I think they were sixth when you take out

2266
01:43:13,560 --> 01:43:16,960
the Celtics game. So you look at it and say, okay, yes,

2267
01:43:17,039 --> 01:43:20,239
this is clearly an overreaction. I will say, the thing

2268
01:43:20,279 --> 01:43:23,680
I'm watching is definitely what he's doing defensively. And then

2269
01:43:23,880 --> 01:43:25,640
I think the place to wrap up here because we

2270
01:43:25,680 --> 01:43:27,039
just did a deep dive on them. Everyone can go

2271
01:43:27,119 --> 01:43:28,520
check it out and I don't think much has changed

2272
01:43:28,560 --> 01:43:31,239
other than Karl Anthony Town's took more shots. Is the

2273
01:43:31,319 --> 01:43:34,800
way to empower him to continue along this where it

2274
01:43:34,800 --> 01:43:38,079
seems like Tibbs wants one of him and Brunton on

2275
01:43:38,079 --> 01:43:41,199
the court at all times, which logistically makes sense, or

2276
01:43:41,279 --> 01:43:44,159
is it, well, we need him to get easier shots,

2277
01:43:44,479 --> 01:43:46,920
so we should play him with bruntson even more than

2278
01:43:47,359 --> 01:43:49,640
we already are. I'm not I honestly don't know the answer.

2279
01:43:49,640 --> 01:43:52,039
I'm not criticizing TIBs for his approach, even because I

2280
01:43:52,039 --> 01:43:55,600
think intuitively like Karlthon Town's has paid like a megastar

2281
01:43:55,640 --> 01:43:57,520
because it's yeah, like that should be a guy who's

2282
01:43:57,560 --> 01:43:59,600
in some lineups without Jee Brunson.

2283
01:44:00,359 --> 01:44:02,199
Speaker 2: I mean that that sort of is the problem with

2284
01:44:02,319 --> 01:44:06,000
him though, right, Like that is why that comte's that

2285
01:44:06,079 --> 01:44:08,680
is that that's why that contract is viewed as like, oh,

2286
01:44:08,760 --> 01:44:10,760
I don't know about that one, because he just hasn't

2287
01:44:10,760 --> 01:44:14,239
been that guy. I think the usage would depend on

2288
01:44:14,359 --> 01:44:19,119
like because like in the playoffs, it's just like you're

2289
01:44:19,159 --> 01:44:21,960
gonna play them together as much as humanly possible, and

2290
01:44:22,000 --> 01:44:24,239
so like the the Cat, but no Brunson minutes are

2291
01:44:24,279 --> 01:44:26,319
gonna be There'll be like two of them maybe in

2292
01:44:26,399 --> 01:44:28,640
like the games that really matter. So I think then

2293
01:44:29,399 --> 01:44:32,159
from from Tim's perspective, and he's just like a win

2294
01:44:32,199 --> 01:44:35,279
the game tonight. Guy, I think you just like you

2295
01:44:35,319 --> 01:44:38,640
can't really worry about like, oh they gotta we gotta

2296
01:44:38,720 --> 01:44:41,079
like build up cat to to be able to handle

2297
01:44:41,119 --> 01:44:43,920
these playoff minutes. Like I think everything he does with

2298
01:44:44,520 --> 01:44:46,880
staggering or not staggering, those two will just depend on

2299
01:44:46,920 --> 01:44:49,039
like what is called for that night to win the game.

2300
01:44:49,399 --> 01:44:51,560
There won't be like long term planning involved.

2301
01:44:51,960 --> 01:44:53,319
Speaker 1: I have a question for you. I want it to

2302
01:44:53,319 --> 01:44:55,119
be a quick one and it's not really a serious one,

2303
01:44:55,119 --> 01:44:57,079
and there'd have to be like eight teams involved because

2304
01:44:57,079 --> 01:45:00,800
of the salary cap situations. I feel a true right now,

2305
01:45:01,000 --> 01:45:05,000
all you're giving up all McHale bridges and Karl Anthony

2306
01:45:05,039 --> 01:45:08,680
towns and you're getting back Joannis attend to Kombo, and

2307
01:45:08,720 --> 01:45:11,880
there's some other rotation players sprinkled. I'm not talking another star,

2308
01:45:13,000 --> 01:45:14,640
are you? If you're the Knicks and you could change

2309
01:45:14,640 --> 01:45:17,399
out those two players like basically undo like these two

2310
01:45:17,399 --> 01:45:21,319
mega transactions man for Jannis, what would you do?

2311
01:45:22,239 --> 01:45:24,319
Speaker 2: So I so I'm just like I know you said

2312
01:45:24,359 --> 01:45:29,760
a short answer, so I still have Brunson og Jannis

2313
01:45:30,319 --> 01:45:30,800
five outs.

2314
01:45:30,840 --> 01:45:32,039
Speaker 1: Basing has gone out the window with this.

2315
01:45:32,239 --> 01:45:35,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're a really different team, Mitchell Robinson still here.

2316
01:45:35,359 --> 01:45:38,840
I guess, uh, I fuck it, I do it? Why

2317
01:45:38,880 --> 01:45:40,279
not do you do? You do it?

2318
01:45:41,800 --> 01:45:44,960
Speaker 1: I have I'd probably do it. I just at this point,

2319
01:45:44,960 --> 01:45:47,720
I'm just sort of like, I don't know, because I

2320
01:45:47,800 --> 01:45:49,760
tend to be higher on Karl Anthony towns than most,

2321
01:45:49,800 --> 01:45:51,920
so I think I would naturally go to Now if

2322
01:45:51,960 --> 01:45:55,199
you could do McHale, Bridges and Mitchell Robinson and every

2323
01:45:55,239 --> 01:45:57,560
and other teams are involved, maybe they're sending Milwaukee first,

2324
01:45:57,640 --> 01:46:00,119
ors Milwaukee's still trying to be good and wants mcale. Well,

2325
01:46:00,520 --> 01:46:03,720
I would preferably go like, pardon me, wonders would be

2326
01:46:03,720 --> 01:46:06,880
better to go McAllen og and then keep Cat. But

2327
01:46:06,960 --> 01:46:10,079
it's just Giannis isn't that type of guy on defense?

2328
01:46:10,600 --> 01:46:14,239
I don't know, but interesting thought exercise rights. I love

2329
01:46:14,279 --> 01:46:16,039
like if you could. If the question is basically you

2330
01:46:16,039 --> 01:46:19,560
could undo two of their past three mega transactions and

2331
01:46:19,600 --> 01:46:22,760
just folded into Giannis and Tentha Koumbo, that's the forget

2332
01:46:22,760 --> 01:46:25,520
the math. We're salary cap doorcs around here. We know

2333
01:46:25,600 --> 01:46:28,000
that's not how it would need to work. I think

2334
01:46:28,000 --> 01:46:29,600
it's an interesting discussion to have.

2335
01:46:30,000 --> 01:46:31,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't say that one.

2336
01:46:31,119 --> 01:46:33,039
Speaker 1: I would absolutely say no to because I don't think

2337
01:46:33,039 --> 01:46:35,720
you'd be good enough. Is McAllen og like one of

2338
01:46:35,720 --> 01:46:37,119
those guys would still need to be on this.

2339
01:46:37,079 --> 01:46:38,840
Speaker 2: Team at the end, I think so, yeah, I think

2340
01:46:38,840 --> 01:46:39,279
that's right.

2341
01:46:39,399 --> 01:46:41,560
Speaker 1: We're on too. V Oh, this is gonna be fun.

2342
01:46:41,600 --> 01:46:45,960
Grant the Oklahoma City Thunder. Grant, this is the best

2343
01:46:46,000 --> 01:46:47,720
defense of all time? True or false?

2344
01:46:48,920 --> 01:46:51,560
Speaker 2: Uh, I'm gonna say false. That can't be right.

2345
01:46:52,479 --> 01:46:56,119
Speaker 1: So, I mean the season still hasn't ended, but it's

2346
01:46:56,119 --> 01:46:58,600
actually true. As of right now, they would be tied

2347
01:46:59,039 --> 01:47:01,600
to the lowest defensive rating in NBA history with the

2348
01:47:01,680 --> 01:47:05,079
Washington Bullets. However, the best way to actually do this,

2349
01:47:05,159 --> 01:47:06,720
and I don't think this is going too far into

2350
01:47:06,760 --> 01:47:08,239
the weeds, but if you want to see who's been

2351
01:47:08,319 --> 01:47:10,840
the best defense or offensive all time, or worse for

2352
01:47:10,840 --> 01:47:13,479
that matter, you should look at how they compare relative

2353
01:47:13,520 --> 01:47:16,119
to the league average at that time, because pacing is

2354
01:47:16,119 --> 01:47:19,359
so different across eras, and so we call that adjusted

2355
01:47:19,680 --> 01:47:23,199
defensive rating, which is just basically you're going to take

2356
01:47:23,479 --> 01:47:27,079
the league average defensive rating, divide it by the actual

2357
01:47:27,079 --> 01:47:30,319
teams like the team's actual defensive rating, and then multiply

2358
01:47:30,359 --> 01:47:32,640
it by one hundred so when you do that with

2359
01:47:32,680 --> 01:47:34,880
the Oklahoma City. So by the way, in this in

2360
01:47:34,920 --> 01:47:39,079
this course, the higher defensive number is better. They're adjusted

2361
01:47:39,119 --> 01:47:42,520
defensive rating the Okahma City Thunder right now one twenty

2362
01:47:42,600 --> 01:47:45,880
three point five to four. The best defense of all time,

2363
01:47:45,920 --> 01:47:49,159
mister Grant Hughes adjusted defensive rating of all time comes

2364
01:47:49,199 --> 01:47:52,800
from the nineteen sixty three to nineteen sixty four Boston Celtics.

2365
01:47:53,199 --> 01:47:56,840
They had an adjusted defensive rating of one twelve point

2366
01:47:56,920 --> 01:47:59,560
eight nine. So let's just round one twenty three point

2367
01:47:59,600 --> 01:48:04,000
five to one twelve point nine. That's not even close

2368
01:48:04,079 --> 01:48:07,479
right now. Again, so few games into the season, I

2369
01:48:07,680 --> 01:48:11,279
just wouldn't rule out the possibility that they wind up

2370
01:48:11,319 --> 01:48:14,520
having the statistically the best defense of all time. They

2371
01:48:14,520 --> 01:48:17,560
are forcing they you know how good they are on defense, Grant.

2372
01:48:17,800 --> 01:48:20,600
They're getting hurt because they're playing too many garbage time

2373
01:48:20,640 --> 01:48:23,319
minutes at the moment, because they're forcing turnovers when all

2374
01:48:23,359 --> 01:48:25,880
their best players are on the court like crazy. But

2375
01:48:25,920 --> 01:48:27,960
you look at their overall turnover rate, it's only top

2376
01:48:27,960 --> 01:48:30,439
thirty five of all time, but it's so much lower

2377
01:48:30,479 --> 01:48:32,640
than their non garbage time turnover rate, which is they're

2378
01:48:32,680 --> 01:48:35,520
forcing turnovers on more than twenty percent of their possessions.

2379
01:48:35,880 --> 01:48:41,600
They are all versatility and aggressiveness and smarts and limbs,

2380
01:48:41,880 --> 01:48:45,720
and they don't even have good like their best defensive

2381
01:48:45,760 --> 01:48:47,880
rebound around the team, who is Isaiah Harrierstein has yet

2382
01:48:47,920 --> 01:48:50,279
to play and so they're still susceptible too if you're

2383
01:48:50,279 --> 01:48:52,560
gonna go up against kind of earlier bigs. They are

2384
01:48:52,600 --> 01:48:55,000
missing I don't know where you would put him in

2385
01:48:55,079 --> 01:48:57,520
the ranking of their most important defenders. But if I

2386
01:48:57,560 --> 01:48:59,119
just put him smack dab in the middle and said, well,

2387
01:48:59,159 --> 01:49:03,119
they're missing their third or fourth most important defender and

2388
01:49:03,199 --> 01:49:06,039
are still just and it's not even close, by the way, relive, Like,

2389
01:49:06,079 --> 01:49:07,720
you can't say this is the best defense in the

2390
01:49:07,760 --> 01:49:10,239
league and have that be bold. That's that's an understatement.

2391
01:49:10,279 --> 01:49:13,760
At this point, this team has the chance to be

2392
01:49:13,880 --> 01:49:17,159
so statistically dominant relative to the field, relative to the

2393
01:49:17,279 --> 01:49:19,960
error that we're in. I don't think we have fully

2394
01:49:20,000 --> 01:49:21,000
appreciated it yet.

2395
01:49:21,600 --> 01:49:24,680
Speaker 2: And like the numbers are super persuasive. It's just like

2396
01:49:24,720 --> 01:49:26,479
and even if you just look at the raw numbers,

2397
01:49:26,479 --> 01:49:28,920
a defensive rating and non garbage time of ninety two

2398
01:49:28,960 --> 01:49:29,960
point five is like.

2399
01:49:29,880 --> 01:49:31,520
Speaker 1: What's the next what's the next best word good.

2400
01:49:31,640 --> 01:49:34,399
Speaker 2: Well, it's it's yours and my Golden State Warriors at

2401
01:49:34,439 --> 01:49:36,439
ninety seven point nine, which would which would have led

2402
01:49:36,439 --> 01:49:38,399
the league last year by like a trillion points, by

2403
01:49:38,439 --> 01:49:41,520
the way, way better than Minnesota. But yeah, the raw

2404
01:49:41,600 --> 01:49:45,399
numbers insane. And then just like they I don't you know,

2405
01:49:45,439 --> 01:49:47,720
whatever catch all you want to use, let's I always

2406
01:49:47,840 --> 01:49:52,800
kind of default to EPM. I think Hartenstein and Caruso

2407
01:49:52,880 --> 01:49:55,720
were both in the top five, and the Thunder defense

2408
01:49:55,840 --> 01:49:58,000
was fourth in the league last year, and you just

2409
01:49:58,079 --> 01:50:01,800
throw those two guys into it, and it's like, well yeah,

2410
01:50:02,039 --> 01:50:08,439
like but just like an anecdotally, there's nowhere to pick at,

2411
01:50:08,680 --> 01:50:10,840
like if they have if they have anything close, like

2412
01:50:10,880 --> 01:50:12,960
you know, if you put Isaiah Joe or like what

2413
01:50:13,119 --> 01:50:15,039
you know, there's guys that can they will play that

2414
01:50:15,119 --> 01:50:17,039
you could like, oh good, there's someone we could sort

2415
01:50:17,079 --> 01:50:19,840
of go at. But when this team is even close

2416
01:50:19,880 --> 01:50:22,680
to fully healthy, I just don't know, Like, who are

2417
01:50:22,680 --> 01:50:26,239
you attacking? Like it's really the like the predatory stuff

2418
01:50:26,239 --> 01:50:28,159
goes the other way. It's like Alex Caruso is like

2419
01:50:28,199 --> 01:50:30,479
attacking his matchup, and like lou Dort is like a

2420
01:50:30,520 --> 01:50:33,439
tep physically attacking the guy that has the ball. Like

2421
01:50:33,479 --> 01:50:36,920
the dynamic this defense is like flips the dynamic of

2422
01:50:36,960 --> 01:50:38,840
like who's actually trying to attack the other?

2423
01:50:39,119 --> 01:50:40,760
Speaker 1: They're like, you can be cause I don't know. This

2424
01:50:40,800 --> 01:50:42,479
isn't the easiest thing to do. But like, if you're

2425
01:50:42,479 --> 01:50:44,399
an offensive player, no matter how good yards, let me

2426
01:50:44,439 --> 01:50:46,279
just get off the ball and then someone else can

2427
01:50:46,279 --> 01:50:48,680
go after someone you can't even there's nowhere to go

2428
01:50:48,760 --> 01:50:51,079
finding that matchup. It's about can I even get rid

2429
01:50:51,119 --> 01:50:54,399
of the ball for any sort of advantage and you can't.

2430
01:50:54,439 --> 01:50:57,239
Now we do have to play the Devil's advocate front here.

2431
01:50:57,600 --> 01:50:59,920
Opponents are shooting fifty percent at the rim. They're shooting

2432
01:51:00,000 --> 01:51:02,960
twenty nine percent from three. That's like the best mark

2433
01:51:03,000 --> 01:51:05,239
in the league. And both uh no, excuse me, they're

2434
01:51:05,239 --> 01:51:07,680
only second and three point defense, so they saw me.

2435
01:51:07,960 --> 01:51:11,199
Let's move on. But what I will say is the

2436
01:51:11,319 --> 01:51:14,720
fact that like they're there, I will say there was

2437
01:51:14,760 --> 01:51:18,119
probably noise in the three point there's always I'm sure

2438
01:51:18,119 --> 01:51:20,279
there'll be a thunderfan or twenty and the well, no

2439
01:51:20,359 --> 01:51:21,079
like they actually do.

2440
01:51:21,479 --> 01:51:22,399
Speaker 2: There's always noise.

2441
01:51:22,520 --> 01:51:24,920
Speaker 1: There's always noise in three point defense, the rim defense.

2442
01:51:25,159 --> 01:51:27,199
Do I expect it to be a fifty percent all season.

2443
01:51:27,800 --> 01:51:31,039
Holy hell no, but I think you could that they

2444
01:51:31,079 --> 01:51:34,119
don't have what could maybe be their best Like we're

2445
01:51:34,119 --> 01:51:37,880
talking stand still verticality, like chet Holmgren is more of

2446
01:51:37,960 --> 01:51:41,039
a dynamic rim protector. Yes he's better, but if Isaiah

2447
01:51:41,039 --> 01:51:43,399
Hart and stut like he's your second best rim protector,

2448
01:51:43,600 --> 01:51:45,720
like you're just and you're playing without really another big

2449
01:51:45,760 --> 01:51:47,640
at this point when you look at the injury to

2450
01:51:48,039 --> 01:51:51,199
j Will, So I just I want to leave the

2451
01:51:51,239 --> 01:51:53,119
door open that even if you don't think if you're

2452
01:51:53,159 --> 01:51:55,720
gonna say no, I'm not comfortable with too many of

2453
01:51:55,720 --> 01:51:57,680
these guys don't play enough, or they're not stars or

2454
01:51:57,680 --> 01:51:59,640
I'm not gonna remember they're not gonna be Hall of famers.

2455
01:52:00,039 --> 01:52:02,079
If you want to go that route, that's fine. I

2456
01:52:02,199 --> 01:52:05,119
believe that this is my oreation. I believe this team

2457
01:52:05,159 --> 01:52:08,399
has a case to finish the season with Statistically, what

2458
01:52:08,520 --> 01:52:11,520
is the best defense relative to the league average in

2459
01:52:11,640 --> 01:52:12,279
NBA history?

2460
01:52:12,800 --> 01:52:15,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is an overreaction because that's what

2461
01:52:15,159 --> 01:52:19,079
we're doing. But that so far is the one that's like,

2462
01:52:19,159 --> 01:52:22,600
actually the hardest to like Cam Johnson is or Cam

2463
01:52:22,680 --> 01:52:25,119
Thomas is less likely to average thirty. How about that

2464
01:52:25,279 --> 01:52:26,920
than the thunder ard to finish with the best.

2465
01:52:27,239 --> 01:52:29,880
Speaker 1: I wonder where this would rank when we're all we're

2466
01:52:29,920 --> 01:52:32,720
done here shortly, Wait, where this would rank against all

2467
01:52:32,760 --> 01:52:35,399
our other overreactions. It's not going to be I don't

2468
01:52:35,439 --> 01:52:38,239
think it's going to be the spiciest or least likeliest by.

2469
01:52:37,800 --> 01:52:39,520
Speaker 2: Oh no, it's I mean, it might be the least

2470
01:52:39,760 --> 01:52:41,920
I mean, which is crazy because it's the most hyperbolic.

2471
01:52:41,960 --> 01:52:44,359
You're saying the best thing of all time of anything.

2472
01:52:44,479 --> 01:52:46,640
That shouldn't be a safe prediction, but it feels that way.

2473
01:52:47,119 --> 01:52:49,520
Speaker 1: Oh man, all right, it is your turn and we're

2474
01:52:49,560 --> 01:52:52,279
on too. You had to pivot here, yep, with the

2475
01:52:52,279 --> 01:52:54,520
news this is rough the Orlando Magic.

2476
01:52:54,760 --> 01:52:58,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, so prior to prior to the news that Palla

2477
01:52:58,479 --> 01:53:01,359
Bankera has a torn obleak, which is like, I didn't

2478
01:53:01,399 --> 01:53:04,760
know he was like hitting fifth for the Tampa Bay Rays,

2479
01:53:04,760 --> 01:53:08,600
because that's a baseball injury generally speaking, it was gonna

2480
01:53:08,600 --> 01:53:10,800
be that the Magic. We're gonna bust out of this

2481
01:53:11,000 --> 01:53:16,119
ridiculous trend of having a crappy offense. They haven't had

2482
01:53:16,119 --> 01:53:19,399
a league average offensive ratings since twenty eleven, twelve, uh

2483
01:53:19,720 --> 01:53:21,239
and they had been looking a lot better and Poalo

2484
01:53:21,319 --> 01:53:23,279
obviously had the fifty pointer and just looked like he'd

2485
01:53:23,319 --> 01:53:26,439
taken another step after making the All Star team last year.

2486
01:53:26,680 --> 01:53:29,880
Now that he's out, I think the overreaction is that

2487
01:53:30,000 --> 01:53:33,319
Orlando's got to make a trade that focuses on holding

2488
01:53:33,399 --> 01:53:36,439
up the offense one while Palo's out in two to

2489
01:53:36,479 --> 01:53:40,000
get it up to the level that like, I don't know, Honors,

2490
01:53:40,000 --> 01:53:42,079
how good this defense can be. So you know, so

2491
01:53:42,199 --> 01:53:45,960
the defense actually isn't just you know, kicking ass. And

2492
01:53:45,960 --> 01:53:48,600
then oh man, they they couldn't you know, they they

2493
01:53:48,640 --> 01:53:50,920
scored one hundred and six points tonight like that that

2494
01:53:51,079 --> 01:53:53,239
just can't they can't continue if the if the Magic

2495
01:53:53,279 --> 01:53:55,319
want to get where they you know, their talent suggests

2496
01:53:55,359 --> 01:53:58,119
they can. So I would just throw out all the

2497
01:53:58,199 --> 01:54:00,279
usual suspects, like you got to take a look Zach

2498
01:54:00,359 --> 01:54:02,199
Lavine and Anthony Simons, and if you don't want to

2499
01:54:02,199 --> 01:54:03,920
think quite that big, I don't know you could you

2500
01:54:03,960 --> 01:54:06,760
could downgrade from there, but like it's just got to

2501
01:54:06,800 --> 01:54:10,560
be You've got to find a way because Paolo, you know,

2502
01:54:10,640 --> 01:54:14,159
is on the short list of guys who just matters

2503
01:54:14,199 --> 01:54:17,720
more to his team's offense than most. So unless you

2504
01:54:17,760 --> 01:54:20,319
want to go through this stretch where maybe you're five hundred,

2505
01:54:20,560 --> 01:54:23,199
maybe you're worse than that. Without him, you just have

2506
01:54:23,239 --> 01:54:25,399
to find some scoring. So I mean that's been an

2507
01:54:25,399 --> 01:54:27,880
issue like before the injury, but I just think it's

2508
01:54:28,000 --> 01:54:29,880
it's like now it's non negotiable.

2509
01:54:30,479 --> 01:54:33,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's I there could be pushback, but you

2510
01:54:33,199 --> 01:54:35,279
just want to look at Palabankarol on the floor this

2511
01:54:35,359 --> 01:54:38,199
year grant the magic one hundred and seventeen point seven

2512
01:54:38,199 --> 01:54:41,279
points per one hundred possessions. That's in the seventy eighth percentile.

2513
01:54:42,039 --> 01:54:44,760
Without Palabank Carrol on the court, grant that drops to

2514
01:54:44,840 --> 01:54:47,960
ninety seven point nine, which is in the first percent tile.

2515
01:54:47,840 --> 01:54:50,079
Speaker 2: Like they're being defended by the Warriors number two defense

2516
01:54:50,119 --> 01:54:50,840
all the time.

2517
01:54:51,199 --> 01:54:53,000
Speaker 1: Not the okayseed defense though, because they would be in

2518
01:54:53,039 --> 01:54:56,279
the zero with pre I just and I don't know,

2519
01:54:57,159 --> 01:54:59,520
you look at this roster and I think, look, they've

2520
01:54:59,520 --> 01:55:03,000
impressed when you look at their shot diet overall, and

2521
01:55:03,399 --> 01:55:06,279
like this this is with I mean k KCP will

2522
01:55:06,279 --> 01:55:09,720
shoot better than sixteen point seven percent on three, and

2523
01:55:09,760 --> 01:55:12,640
I'm assuming Wendell Carter Junior will eventually shoot at least

2524
01:55:12,680 --> 01:55:16,760
over fifteen percent from three, Like is are Franz. My

2525
01:55:16,960 --> 01:55:19,119
point here is, are your best shooters right now? When

2526
01:55:19,119 --> 01:55:21,720
you look at a jail And Suggs or Franz Wagner

2527
01:55:21,880 --> 01:55:23,560
when Palo isn't gonna be on the court for the

2528
01:55:23,680 --> 01:55:26,840
entire game, are they going to continue to shoot as

2529
01:55:26,880 --> 01:55:29,359
well from three? And so where are you going to

2530
01:55:29,439 --> 01:55:31,479
make up some of these made three pointers? Maybe it

2531
01:55:31,560 --> 01:55:35,159
normalizes to where it's just at right now because Kentavius

2532
01:55:35,199 --> 01:55:38,319
caledwell Pope makes more of his his shots, But that's

2533
01:55:38,319 --> 01:55:40,119
going to be a concern. I think even more than

2534
01:55:40,159 --> 01:55:42,680
that is, even if you think Jalen Sugs and Franz

2535
01:55:42,760 --> 01:55:45,279
Vagner are ready to shoulder more of the creation, Like

2536
01:55:45,399 --> 01:55:48,199
are Anthony Black, who's impressed this year hit a game

2537
01:55:48,239 --> 01:55:51,880
winning three? Shoutout Amy Black and Cole Anthony? Like is

2538
01:55:51,920 --> 01:55:55,760
that enough? Just second? Like just those four players are

2539
01:55:55,800 --> 01:55:57,840
now you're I don't even want to say your best?

2540
01:55:57,840 --> 01:56:00,000
Are they your only initiators whom whom I missed?

2541
01:56:00,840 --> 01:56:03,199
Speaker 2: No, I was gonna say, like the shooting is an issue,

2542
01:56:03,199 --> 01:56:06,439
but the shot creation and playmaking was was a bigger

2543
01:56:06,479 --> 01:56:09,479
issue before Pollow got hurt. Right, Like, I think you're

2544
01:56:09,479 --> 01:56:10,960
focused on exactly the right thing.

2545
01:56:11,119 --> 01:56:13,479
Speaker 1: More junior at the elbows. Now is that what?

2546
01:56:13,920 --> 01:56:17,159
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe this is just Anthony Black now, like you know,

2547
01:56:17,159 --> 01:56:20,960
because he's looked impressive so far, certainly relatives to last year,

2548
01:56:21,439 --> 01:56:24,119
and what is the averaging he's second behind Palow and

2549
01:56:24,159 --> 01:56:26,119
assists per game and he's not he's playing twenty five

2550
01:56:26,159 --> 01:56:28,840
minutes like he's not you know, out there a ton

2551
01:56:28,960 --> 01:56:31,960
Like maybe this is just where I don't know, we

2552
01:56:32,000 --> 01:56:33,920
get an answer or we get like a pretty a

2553
01:56:34,000 --> 01:56:36,399
much clearer indicator of like how big of a role

2554
01:56:36,439 --> 01:56:39,279
can Anthony Black have in this offense than we've had

2555
01:56:39,319 --> 01:56:41,640
to this point. I'm not saying it's like, well, we're

2556
01:56:41,640 --> 01:56:43,760
going to find out for sure if he's like if

2557
01:56:43,760 --> 01:56:46,800
he justifies the pick that he that they used on him,

2558
01:56:46,840 --> 01:56:48,960
But it's like, I think we're gonna get a lot

2559
01:56:49,000 --> 01:56:50,720
of information. I hope we get a lot of information

2560
01:56:50,760 --> 01:56:53,680
because I'm very curious to see is Anthony Black more

2561
01:56:53,680 --> 01:56:56,840
than like you know, got length, good defender maybe down

2562
01:56:56,920 --> 01:56:58,640
the line, connective passer.

2563
01:56:58,600 --> 01:57:01,800
Speaker 1: Shots definitely better that like Stan still jumpers down.

2564
01:57:02,000 --> 01:57:04,720
Speaker 2: Can we see if like, okay, let's maybe stretch some

2565
01:57:04,800 --> 01:57:06,520
of that and see what else might be there. I

2566
01:57:06,560 --> 01:57:08,640
don't know, if you're looking for like the glass half full,

2567
01:57:08,680 --> 01:57:09,319
that's it.

2568
01:57:09,600 --> 01:57:11,920
Speaker 1: Well, I'm also hoping and by the way, he's not

2569
01:57:11,960 --> 01:57:14,279
benefficient as a pick and role scorer this year point

2570
01:57:14,319 --> 01:57:17,399
seven possessions and that's accounted. Wow, that's kind of for

2571
01:57:17,399 --> 01:57:19,039
a larger share. When I'm watching the Magic, I didn't

2572
01:57:19,079 --> 01:57:20,840
feel that that he was doing that as much as

2573
01:57:20,840 --> 01:57:23,039
he is. I'm hoping we will see because a way

2574
01:57:23,079 --> 01:57:25,680
to maybe alleviate some of the pressure would be, let's

2575
01:57:25,720 --> 01:57:28,640
on court Jet Howard Moore and really try and like

2576
01:57:28,880 --> 01:57:30,960
put pressure on defenses away from the ball might be

2577
01:57:31,000 --> 01:57:31,439
the way to go.

2578
01:57:31,680 --> 01:57:32,520
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah.

2579
01:57:32,640 --> 01:57:34,840
Speaker 1: We can't even spend much time on because, like, what

2580
01:57:34,960 --> 01:57:36,880
is the opinion of the Sixers other than things suck,

2581
01:57:37,159 --> 01:57:39,840
The world sucks. It's ending. The overreaction to what we

2582
01:57:39,960 --> 01:57:42,880
see thus far is Kayla Martin and Andre Drummond will

2583
01:57:42,920 --> 01:57:46,279
start in more games than Joel Embiid and Paul George.

2584
01:57:47,039 --> 01:57:50,560
And look, we have another little breaking news tidbits. Joel

2585
01:57:50,560 --> 01:57:52,560
Bid wants to be one hundred percent game ready with

2586
01:57:52,600 --> 01:57:56,319
that left knee, and he's almost there, per Shamsherania on

2587
01:57:56,479 --> 01:57:59,840
Joel Embiid and his left knee injury. Now, okay, fun

2588
01:58:00,079 --> 01:58:02,439
we still have no timetable for what the fuck is

2589
01:58:02,439 --> 01:58:07,279
going on here? I just it's sad. In six Ers Land,

2590
01:58:07,319 --> 01:58:10,319
they are bank rolling a three star operation and what

2591
01:58:10,319 --> 01:58:13,039
they're getting in return for that bank roll as a

2592
01:58:13,039 --> 01:58:16,359
one star operation. They are twenty seventh in offense, they're

2593
01:58:16,359 --> 01:58:20,119
eighteenth in defense. Nick Nurse is grumpy. I don't know

2594
01:58:20,399 --> 01:58:22,760
how you could be. Okay, yes, Paul George and Joel

2595
01:58:22,800 --> 01:58:26,720
Embiid are gonna play for how long? Like what you're

2596
01:58:26,760 --> 01:58:30,520
just constantly waiting for the I predicted in part at

2597
01:58:30,520 --> 01:58:32,600
the start of the season or before it started. Excuse

2598
01:58:32,600 --> 01:58:34,840
me because I wanted to manifest good vibes that the

2599
01:58:34,840 --> 01:58:37,279
big three would play a thousand minutes together this year.

2600
01:58:37,319 --> 01:58:40,119
Grant you much of an idiot, I look like right now?

2601
01:58:40,920 --> 01:58:42,600
Speaker 2: Well, I was just kind of trying to think, like,

2602
01:58:42,880 --> 01:58:45,560
because it's an overreaction, I know, but okay, so how

2603
01:58:45,600 --> 01:58:47,720
many games do I think we'll just confine it to

2604
01:58:47,840 --> 01:58:51,279
Himbiid to keep it simple, Like is it actually possible

2605
01:58:51,279 --> 01:58:53,640
that Andre Drummonds gonna start more games than him? And

2606
01:58:53,680 --> 01:58:55,640
like you get a little ways into the you know,

2607
01:58:55,720 --> 01:58:57,640
let's really break it down. It's like, oh, he might

2608
01:58:57,920 --> 01:59:01,039
like that really it's like, cause, so let's say embiad

2609
01:59:01,079 --> 01:59:04,039
his back, he misses the first what ten games, Let's

2610
01:59:04,079 --> 01:59:07,000
say he comes back in game eleven. Maybe that's conservative.

2611
01:59:07,000 --> 01:59:09,199
I don't know. He's not gonna play back to back,

2612
01:59:09,279 --> 01:59:10,800
so that's I don't know how many back to back

2613
01:59:10,840 --> 01:59:13,800
teams have. Let's knock off like six or seven more there.

2614
01:59:14,199 --> 01:59:17,159
So we're approaching twenty missed games as it is. And

2615
01:59:17,199 --> 01:59:20,840
then okay, so is he gonna be just fully healthy

2616
01:59:20,880 --> 01:59:23,079
available for every single other game that's not a back

2617
01:59:23,119 --> 01:59:24,920
to back the rest of you, of course not. So

2618
01:59:25,000 --> 01:59:27,640
now it's like, well, Drummond needs to start like fifty games?

2619
01:59:28,359 --> 01:59:33,920
Actually does Drummond just need to start forty forty games?

2620
01:59:33,960 --> 01:59:36,640
And he will start more than embiid like not out

2621
01:59:36,640 --> 01:59:39,119
of the question. So yeah, it's an overreaction, but like you,

2622
01:59:39,159 --> 01:59:41,479
actually it's based on what's happened so far. You actually

2623
01:59:41,520 --> 01:59:43,279
do have to start thinking about it and wondering if, like,

2624
01:59:43,319 --> 01:59:44,600
oh my god, is that going to be right?

2625
01:59:44,880 --> 01:59:46,479
Speaker 1: And I do have to amend comments I said when

2626
01:59:46,479 --> 01:59:48,279
we were doing the news thing. It does seem like

2627
01:59:48,760 --> 01:59:51,279
the Sixers were fine publicly for saying that Joelbie wasn't

2628
01:59:51,279 --> 01:59:53,560
gonna play in back to backs, and so in a way,

2629
01:59:53,800 --> 01:59:55,920
they were almost giving fans a heads up when he

2630
01:59:55,960 --> 01:59:57,880
wouldn't be playing, and I took it the other way.

2631
01:59:57,880 --> 01:59:59,920
But yeah, this is Can we move on? I'm saying yes,

2632
02:00:00,319 --> 02:00:03,279
The Orlando and Philly back to back is super tough.

2633
02:00:03,479 --> 02:00:06,760
I seized that from you. I'm really sorry. Phoenix is

2634
02:00:06,800 --> 02:00:10,399
technically mine, even though I stole the sixers from you, Mike. Buttenholzer,

2635
02:00:10,600 --> 02:00:13,399
like Frank Vogel before him, is potentially probably going to

2636
02:00:13,399 --> 02:00:16,920
play Kevin Durant to literal, actual, likely irreversible death.

2637
02:00:17,119 --> 02:00:20,079
Speaker 2: Grant thoughts, seems pretty rational to me.

2638
02:00:21,119 --> 02:00:25,479
Speaker 1: It's an overreaction, but there's just what here's my thing,

2639
02:00:25,560 --> 02:00:29,039
and it's I get it. It's still early, but I

2640
02:00:29,039 --> 02:00:32,560
don't want to hear. Let's actually break it down this way.

2641
02:00:33,119 --> 02:00:35,920
What's the best way to manage Kevin Durant's workload? Efter

2642
02:00:35,960 --> 02:00:39,560
he placed sixth in total minutes in last year Grant

2643
02:00:39,600 --> 02:00:42,239
his age thirty five season. I'm not a doctor. I'm

2644
02:00:42,239 --> 02:00:45,159
also not particularly smart, but I'm pretty sure it's not

2645
02:00:45,199 --> 02:00:47,520
having him lead the league in total minutes during his

2646
02:00:47,600 --> 02:00:50,960
age thirty six season. I also don't want to hear,

2647
02:00:51,000 --> 02:00:54,720
and I was actually watching Kenny Beacham reacted to my

2648
02:00:55,640 --> 02:00:58,960
overreactions for Bleacher Report and his commenters got mad, and

2649
02:00:59,000 --> 02:01:01,720
he kind of dismissed it. Kd's a hooper, he wants

2650
02:01:01,760 --> 02:01:04,800
to play. I don't care, and look Kenny's he seems

2651
02:01:04,840 --> 02:01:06,960
like the nicest guy. Even when he criticizes my stuff,

2652
02:01:06,960 --> 02:01:10,680
He's super nice about it. Fuck that sentiment. It's awesome

2653
02:01:10,680 --> 02:01:12,880
that Kevin Durant wants to hoop, but it sucks that

2654
02:01:13,239 --> 02:01:15,680
you're so small in the front court that you're still

2655
02:01:15,720 --> 02:01:17,920
relying on him. And then also kind of the subplot

2656
02:01:17,960 --> 02:01:20,000
of this year, and I don't know if it's a subplot,

2657
02:01:20,039 --> 02:01:23,239
because I'm sure that Suns fans are just like enraged

2658
02:01:23,600 --> 02:01:28,760
Yusuf Nurkic is not good and he has the minutes

2659
02:01:29,039 --> 02:01:33,039
to back it up this year. So that's now, it's okay,

2660
02:01:33,159 --> 02:01:36,600
So we're super reliant on Mason Plumbley, and this is

2661
02:01:36,760 --> 02:01:38,399
we're at a point now where it's all right, well

2662
02:01:38,399 --> 02:01:40,520
what do we do after that? The Sons feel like

2663
02:01:40,840 --> 02:01:42,840
and this is a really tall order to say for

2664
02:01:42,920 --> 02:01:45,479
a team that's in the second apron and with just

2665
02:01:46,000 --> 02:01:48,119
standalone assets, then at that point when you don't have

2666
02:01:48,119 --> 02:01:51,479
first round picks to trade. What is the desirable contract here, No,

2667
02:01:51,560 --> 02:01:54,520
you're trading anyone, whether it's a Nurkic, whether it's a Kogi.

2668
02:01:55,000 --> 02:01:58,279
Maybe Grace and Allen would have some standalone value, but

2669
02:01:58,359 --> 02:02:00,720
he hasn't even played that well to start the year.

2670
02:02:00,760 --> 02:02:03,239
Nor is he playing like a ton. By the way,

2671
02:02:03,319 --> 02:02:05,000
Monte Morris has to be just really pissed that he

2672
02:02:05,079 --> 02:02:07,000
signed with his team. By the way, that's a nice

2673
02:02:07,000 --> 02:02:10,880
another little side here, So like, what is the you know,

2674
02:02:11,000 --> 02:02:14,319
what is to solve for of getting Kevin Reant fewer minutes?

2675
02:02:14,359 --> 02:02:16,960
I understand that that's still not a good position to

2676
02:02:17,000 --> 02:02:19,560
be in. He's averaging almost forty minutes per game. That's

2677
02:02:19,600 --> 02:02:21,319
too I don't care that we're five six games in

2678
02:02:21,399 --> 02:02:24,239
the season. That's too many minutes. Yeah, I don't care

2679
02:02:24,279 --> 02:02:27,039
that he's immortal. It seems like he is one of

2680
02:02:27,039 --> 02:02:30,239
the best basketball players of all time. He is literally

2681
02:02:30,319 --> 02:02:32,920
unstoppable most of the time. And I think the offensive

2682
02:02:32,920 --> 02:02:36,159
process for Phoenix has gotten way better. But he does

2683
02:02:36,199 --> 02:02:39,800
feel like we're sort of playing with fire here. The answer, though,

2684
02:02:40,000 --> 02:02:42,680
I just don't think is on the roster because what

2685
02:02:42,800 --> 02:02:45,560
is the everything I just said, what is the alternative?

2686
02:02:45,880 --> 02:02:51,159
Speaker 2: Well, that that is the exact problem, because what seems

2687
02:02:51,239 --> 02:02:54,319
likely to happen is because so I one of my

2688
02:02:54,359 --> 02:02:56,079
takes on this team is that, like there's two guys

2689
02:02:56,079 --> 02:02:57,680
in the starting lineup you're not sure going to be

2690
02:02:57,720 --> 02:02:59,359
able to be on the floor to close games that

2691
02:02:59,359 --> 02:03:02,479
you care about. And that's Nurkitchen Jones just because like

2692
02:03:02,560 --> 02:03:06,039
one defensive targets like you know, size, speed, all that stuff.

2693
02:03:07,039 --> 02:03:09,560
The problem is, like Kevin Durant just becomes more important

2694
02:03:09,920 --> 02:03:12,119
with this lineup construction the deeper into the season you

2695
02:03:12,119 --> 02:03:13,520
go and into the playoffs, because he might just have

2696
02:03:13,520 --> 02:03:15,439
to play a lot of center, like in those they

2697
02:03:15,680 --> 02:03:17,680
messed around with that last year. So like you're not

2698
02:03:17,720 --> 02:03:19,920
only wearing him down just in raw minute totals, now

2699
02:03:20,479 --> 02:03:22,640
you're doing it in advance of what is probably going

2700
02:03:22,680 --> 02:03:26,159
to be tougher demands on like physically what he's being

2701
02:03:26,199 --> 02:03:29,760
asked to do. Uh. So, like it's you're just you're

2702
02:03:30,159 --> 02:03:32,800
you're playing with firelike in both ways, I guess, like

2703
02:03:32,880 --> 02:03:35,279
I just I don't. Yeah, it's it's a huge problem,

2704
02:03:35,319 --> 02:03:37,119
but there is no solve for this, Like this is

2705
02:03:37,399 --> 02:03:39,319
this is what happens when you build a team this way.

2706
02:03:39,680 --> 02:03:42,680
There just isn't like you just don't have the ability

2707
02:03:43,159 --> 02:03:45,840
to reach down the depth chart and find someone they

2708
02:03:45,840 --> 02:03:48,680
can like, oh, let's give this guy ten of Katie's

2709
02:03:48,680 --> 02:03:49,880
minutes every night, Like.

2710
02:03:49,920 --> 02:03:52,880
Speaker 1: Right now, you don't give him credit for so he

2711
02:03:52,920 --> 02:03:56,159
played what he played forty four in the OT game

2712
02:03:56,520 --> 02:03:59,680
against the Clippers. That's not skewing the thirty nine point

2713
02:03:59,720 --> 02:04:02,239
seven and it's PERI, here's the game logging the not

2714
02:04:02,399 --> 02:04:05,960
OT games Grant thirty nine, thirty eight, thirty nine.

2715
02:04:06,279 --> 02:04:10,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and here's the thing, like you I can

2716
02:04:10,239 --> 02:04:14,239
understand why you would do that, as as Budenholzer, because

2717
02:04:14,319 --> 02:04:18,880
he's playing great, Like he's shooting fifty three percent from

2718
02:04:18,880 --> 02:04:21,800
the field, forty six percent from three, like twenty seven

2719
02:04:22,119 --> 02:04:24,880
three and seven, blocking one point eight shots a game.

2720
02:04:24,920 --> 02:04:26,760
Like he's clearly their center if we're gonna look at that.

2721
02:04:27,119 --> 02:04:30,079
So like the production is not hurting from from the

2722
02:04:30,079 --> 02:04:31,920
minute total. So it's like you probably feel like you're

2723
02:04:31,920 --> 02:04:34,199
getting you're doing more than getting away with it at

2724
02:04:34,239 --> 02:04:35,880
some point that's just not gonna work like that.

2725
02:04:35,960 --> 02:04:38,680
Speaker 1: Just any way, it's it's weird to see bo and Booker,

2726
02:04:39,119 --> 02:04:41,479
especially Booker, logging fewer minutes and that just because they're

2727
02:04:41,520 --> 02:04:42,000
so deep.

2728
02:04:42,319 --> 02:04:45,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, even the spots. Yeah, like there's now.

2729
02:04:45,199 --> 02:04:47,319
Speaker 1: But the answer, the only actual answer that we haven't

2730
02:04:47,359 --> 02:04:50,399
mentioned is Bullboll still exists. And unless he's dealing with

2731
02:04:50,439 --> 02:04:52,359
an injury that I haven't seen or heard about, do

2732
02:04:52,359 --> 02:04:54,159
you just dust him off? It's oight here, take five

2733
02:04:54,159 --> 02:04:56,079
of Kdi's minutes per game. We're gonna lose those minutes

2734
02:04:56,079 --> 02:04:57,319
and we'll like, we'll figure.

2735
02:04:57,159 --> 02:04:58,920
Speaker 2: Like I don't know what to do, I mean more

2736
02:04:58,960 --> 02:05:01,840
Grayson Allen, more, Ryan Dunn. I guess like you know

2737
02:05:01,920 --> 02:05:05,439
they still though I think the bigger issue is just

2738
02:05:05,479 --> 02:05:10,359
like they don't they they can't trust Nurkic to play

2739
02:05:10,399 --> 02:05:13,000
playoff games, like a big big minutes in playoff games,

2740
02:05:13,039 --> 02:05:15,039
and so like what it ain't gonna be plumbing, So

2741
02:05:15,079 --> 02:05:17,479
I just it might just be Durant playing small ball five,

2742
02:05:17,640 --> 02:05:19,439
and like you can't just beat the crap out of

2743
02:05:19,479 --> 02:05:21,279
him for six months and then expect them to do that.

2744
02:05:21,720 --> 02:05:25,720
Speaker 1: Can you get uh Isaiah Stewart for use of Nurkic

2745
02:05:25,800 --> 02:05:27,560
if you include your twenty thirty one pick. I haven't

2746
02:05:27,560 --> 02:05:29,239
even looked. I need to look at the salaries, but

2747
02:05:29,359 --> 02:05:30,640
I think Nurkic makes more.

2748
02:05:32,600 --> 02:05:35,279
Speaker 2: I think he makes more I think Stuart's in like

2749
02:05:35,319 --> 02:05:37,119
the fifteen to seventeen range.

2750
02:05:36,960 --> 02:05:39,880
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, oh yeah, Nurkic is higher than I thought.

2751
02:05:39,880 --> 02:05:42,800
He's at eighteen point one this season. Do Stuart make

2752
02:05:42,880 --> 02:05:44,520
low enough where it could be what's like a cheap

2753
02:05:44,520 --> 02:05:46,479
player on the Pistons that they could also give you

2754
02:05:46,920 --> 02:05:49,359
for because Isaiah Stewart's at if he's in the fifteen

2755
02:05:49,439 --> 02:05:52,039
range like you said, which you are right, he's fifteen

2756
02:05:52,079 --> 02:05:55,279
on the button, So give me another Detroit Pistons player

2757
02:05:55,319 --> 02:05:58,279
that's like can make three million dollars or something, and

2758
02:05:59,039 --> 02:06:01,239
that would I hear they're just throwing guys like Quinton

2759
02:06:01,279 --> 02:06:04,079
Grimes into deals, so maybe oh no, he's gone already

2760
02:06:04,199 --> 02:06:06,680
too late. You could Oh, they don't have I mean

2761
02:06:06,720 --> 02:06:10,199
it would be Marcus Sasser and uh, it would have

2762
02:06:10,239 --> 02:06:13,359
to be Marcus Sasser and Isaiah Stewart, which the sass

2763
02:06:13,359 --> 02:06:16,800
A is so redundant on this. You could get Bobie Clintman.

2764
02:06:16,960 --> 02:06:18,720
I'm intrigued as him as like kind of a stretch

2765
02:06:18,760 --> 02:06:20,600
big So but would you are you at the point

2766
02:06:20,640 --> 02:06:22,920
where you're pulling that like if Isaiah Stewart, if you

2767
02:06:23,000 --> 02:06:24,880
have to get off Nurkis and Isaiah Stewart's maybe the

2768
02:06:24,880 --> 02:06:26,479
best player you can get for that, or you doing

2769
02:06:26,520 --> 02:06:27,840
it with the twenty thirty one pick.

2770
02:06:28,159 --> 02:06:30,600
Speaker 2: Hmmm, I mean you're all in as it is, you

2771
02:06:30,680 --> 02:06:32,960
might as well. I like Stuart better than Nurkic. I

2772
02:06:33,079 --> 02:06:35,279
think just the energy, the shoot this fathing. Maybe like

2773
02:06:35,319 --> 02:06:37,239
you could actually play some five. Yeah, I don't know

2774
02:06:37,239 --> 02:06:37,520
why not.

2775
02:06:37,560 --> 02:06:39,840
Speaker 1: I just I don't think it's enough to twenty thirty one.

2776
02:06:39,880 --> 02:06:42,119
I like Stu, but we move on. Is it's still me?

2777
02:06:42,199 --> 02:06:44,439
It's still me again? Why did I seize the sixers

2778
02:06:44,439 --> 02:06:44,800
from you?

2779
02:06:44,800 --> 02:06:47,000
Speaker 2: You just wanted to talk about the sixers really badly.

2780
02:06:47,439 --> 02:06:49,520
Speaker 1: I'm going low hanging fruit here, but it's gonna lead

2781
02:06:49,520 --> 02:06:52,039
into a discussion about what the actual overreaction is. Why

2782
02:06:52,079 --> 02:06:54,399
are avery signs of Jeremy Grant both still on this team?

2783
02:06:54,479 --> 02:06:58,479
Damn it. My thought process here is all right. You

2784
02:06:58,560 --> 02:07:01,359
got Scoot coming off the bench. Fine, he's looked way better,

2785
02:07:01,560 --> 02:07:03,199
which is part of this. The fact that he looks

2786
02:07:03,199 --> 02:07:07,760
way better is okay. Shadon Sharp is out and we're

2787
02:07:07,800 --> 02:07:11,319
still not putting Scoot with the starters. He didn't start

2788
02:07:11,319 --> 02:07:13,119
his last game. I didn't watch the last Blazers game,

2789
02:07:13,159 --> 02:07:15,279
so I don't think he started, did he? Anyway, he's

2790
02:07:15,279 --> 02:07:17,520
looked better, and I'm so glad that you gave up

2791
02:07:17,560 --> 02:07:19,680
two first round picks and Malcolm Brogden just to make

2792
02:07:19,760 --> 02:07:23,319
Denny Avdia a smaller part of your offense. Which is

2793
02:07:23,520 --> 02:07:25,720
if you're not gonna just not play, and that's with

2794
02:07:25,880 --> 02:07:28,279
Matis Stibel injured by the way, So if you're not

2795
02:07:28,359 --> 02:07:31,279
if you're just not going to play, like unless you

2796
02:07:31,279 --> 02:07:33,000
don't want to play too, Monti Kamara, who I think

2797
02:07:33,000 --> 02:07:35,560
has lot more long term value to you than Jeremy

2798
02:07:35,560 --> 02:07:39,039
Grant at this point, just because he's twenty four years old. Uh, Like,

2799
02:07:39,039 --> 02:07:41,479
what are we doing here? So I just I mean,

2800
02:07:41,479 --> 02:07:43,880
you could even make the case that I guess because

2801
02:07:43,880 --> 02:07:46,039
they're so injured up front, but like, why isn't Donovan

2802
02:07:46,079 --> 02:07:48,960
Clinton playing more? I know he's a rookie, but isn't

2803
02:07:48,960 --> 02:07:51,279
this a team that you know you're like, you have

2804
02:07:51,359 --> 02:07:54,399
the timeline to play a rookie and I think, look,

2805
02:07:54,439 --> 02:07:57,399
Sharp is injured, but you are now in this is

2806
02:07:57,680 --> 02:08:00,600
year two of your complete just like start over. But

2807
02:08:00,640 --> 02:08:02,680
we're talking about you have three of the past top

2808
02:08:02,720 --> 02:08:07,399
seven overall picks, none of them are starting for you,

2809
02:08:08,079 --> 02:08:10,760
and none of them are averaging more than Only one

2810
02:08:10,800 --> 02:08:12,880
of them is averaging more than twenty five minutes per game.

2811
02:08:13,039 --> 02:08:14,600
Only one of them is averaging more than fifteen minutes

2812
02:08:14,600 --> 02:08:16,560
per game. For you, right now, christ Shane Sharp hasn't played.

2813
02:08:16,800 --> 02:08:19,720
That's too like, oh, we can't dismiss the Shane and

2814
02:08:19,720 --> 02:08:23,479
Sharp injury, but like, what's going on here? And I

2815
02:08:23,520 --> 02:08:27,920
don't I understand the theory of the Deniavia trade. I

2816
02:08:28,000 --> 02:08:30,279
understood it and now I'm understanding it even less. And

2817
02:08:30,279 --> 02:08:31,880
I think it was debatable. Is what I'm getting at

2818
02:08:31,880 --> 02:08:33,760
is that there was not an Iron Clan logic to

2819
02:08:33,840 --> 02:08:36,640
the Deniavida trade. And that's why I come back to

2820
02:08:37,239 --> 02:08:40,159
I think both Jeremy Grant and Affrey Simons are good players.

2821
02:08:40,199 --> 02:08:43,680
I think Simon's holds kind of an outsized importance because

2822
02:08:43,680 --> 02:08:45,680
of he's not hitting his threes right now, but just

2823
02:08:45,720 --> 02:08:47,880
the volume he takes them and his ability to take them,

2824
02:08:48,199 --> 02:08:50,439
although Grant is getting them up this year too, they

2825
02:08:50,479 --> 02:08:53,920
hold outsize importance if you're trying to streamline the development

2826
02:08:54,000 --> 02:08:56,640
of others. But I think the Blazers have gone too

2827
02:08:56,640 --> 02:08:59,159
far in the direction of let's have these proven players

2828
02:08:59,199 --> 02:09:02,800
here and give them minutes and just the way Danny

2829
02:09:02,800 --> 02:09:05,800
Aviya has looked this season offensively inside what they've assembled.

2830
02:09:05,840 --> 02:09:06,840
I just don't. I don't get it.

2831
02:09:07,720 --> 02:09:09,399
Speaker 2: This was always going to be the push and pull

2832
02:09:09,439 --> 02:09:11,600
with this team, right. We knew, we knew this was

2833
02:09:11,640 --> 02:09:13,720
the dynamic. We knew that they had sort of two

2834
02:09:13,760 --> 02:09:18,840
different teams on the same roster, and that like I

2835
02:09:18,840 --> 02:09:21,680
get but I guess the thought would have been, well,

2836
02:09:22,239 --> 02:09:25,039
they'll just well, actually, we had a fun conversation about

2837
02:09:25,039 --> 02:09:27,319
like what if what if the veterans on this team

2838
02:09:27,359 --> 02:09:29,000
are good enough to where they are just pushing for

2839
02:09:29,039 --> 02:09:32,159
a playing spot, which, like I don't know, maybe, but

2840
02:09:32,159 --> 02:09:36,159
but I think we are correct to typically just air

2841
02:09:36,279 --> 02:09:38,520
on the side of like, when you have these two

2842
02:09:38,560 --> 02:09:41,880
different timelines operating simultaneously, you just got to trade the

2843
02:09:41,880 --> 02:09:45,680
older one. And just because like you you just get like,

2844
02:09:46,000 --> 02:09:49,600
what's the scenario where you sort of maintain the status

2845
02:09:49,680 --> 02:09:52,279
quo and end up in a good place, right, Like,

2846
02:09:52,319 --> 02:09:55,600
I just don't. I guess the argument is you keep

2847
02:09:55,600 --> 02:09:58,039
the veterans around so it is easier for Scoot to

2848
02:09:58,560 --> 02:10:01,880
like maximize his potential, and same with kling In, although

2849
02:10:01,880 --> 02:10:03,720
it's a harder case to make with kling In because

2850
02:10:03,880 --> 02:10:05,880
just get guys out of his way and let him learn.

2851
02:10:06,880 --> 02:10:08,880
But like, I just that's not appealing to me. I

2852
02:10:08,920 --> 02:10:10,399
don't think. I think you're kind of in the same

2853
02:10:10,399 --> 02:10:13,800
boat where it's just like the second you have, you know,

2854
02:10:13,840 --> 02:10:15,560
as good of an offer as you think you're gonna

2855
02:10:15,600 --> 02:10:18,159
get on grant On, Simons on tyble On, like go

2856
02:10:18,239 --> 02:10:20,520
down the list, just pull the trigger and like get

2857
02:10:20,520 --> 02:10:23,680
this team more sensibly organized around like a like a

2858
02:10:23,720 --> 02:10:28,159
common age range. I guess. But yeah, I just I

2859
02:10:28,199 --> 02:10:30,560
don't have an answer to your overreaction question. I don't

2860
02:10:30,560 --> 02:10:31,680
know why they're still on the roster.

2861
02:10:31,760 --> 02:10:34,039
Speaker 1: It's honestly probably not a big enough overreaction. And too,

2862
02:10:34,239 --> 02:10:37,000
I didn't see I actually saw the clothes of Clippers Blazers.

2863
02:10:37,439 --> 02:10:39,199
Uh that the Blazers won, by the way, so maybe

2864
02:10:39,239 --> 02:10:40,920
weird to record this after that. But Scoot did not

2865
02:10:40,920 --> 02:10:42,119
start that. I didn't see the beginning of that.

2866
02:10:42,319 --> 02:10:44,159
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, they've started the same five guys every game.

2867
02:10:44,199 --> 02:10:47,479
It's it's I mean, Avdya, Kamara eight and Grant and

2868
02:10:47,520 --> 02:10:50,640
Simon's Kamara. Like Kamara is like in the middle of

2869
02:10:50,680 --> 02:10:52,800
the two timeline because he's good now and is a

2870
02:10:52,880 --> 02:10:55,319
role player, but like he's still young enough to where

2871
02:10:55,319 --> 02:10:58,079
it makes sense as like a major complimentary piece of

2872
02:10:58,439 --> 02:11:00,720
a team built around Scoot and sharp and clinging. So

2873
02:11:00,840 --> 02:11:03,319
I don't know, don't treat him, is what I would say.

2874
02:11:03,520 --> 02:11:06,760
Speaker 1: I guess when you look at that lineup, do you

2875
02:11:06,800 --> 02:11:08,920
think that it's been good enough or insulated like what

2876
02:11:09,119 --> 02:11:12,000
bringing scooed off the but like as scoop and maximize

2877
02:11:12,039 --> 02:11:13,359
coming off the bench enough to say like, hey, we

2878
02:11:13,399 --> 02:11:15,600
need to stick with his lineup that's getting blitzed by

2879
02:11:16,039 --> 02:11:19,279
nine points per one hundred possessions and can't score, Like

2880
02:11:19,319 --> 02:11:20,199
they just can't score.

2881
02:11:20,399 --> 02:11:24,039
Speaker 2: It's hard because like we always we like devalue guys

2882
02:11:24,119 --> 02:11:26,359
that produce off the bench because it's like, oh, they're

2883
02:11:26,359 --> 02:11:31,680
going against backups. But at the same time, you want

2884
02:11:31,720 --> 02:11:34,119
Scoot to have like a I don't know, it depends

2885
02:11:34,119 --> 02:11:35,880
on like how much how much do you want to

2886
02:11:35,920 --> 02:11:38,439
have Scoot develop in like a trial by fire scenario

2887
02:11:38,479 --> 02:11:40,159
because that kind of was what happened last year. It

2888
02:11:40,159 --> 02:11:42,760
didn't go great. So like I understand the bench, you know,

2889
02:11:42,840 --> 02:11:45,199
coming off the bench and like just getting a rhythm

2890
02:11:45,239 --> 02:11:48,560
and going against easier competition, But like I don't think

2891
02:11:48,560 --> 02:11:50,560
you can go through the whole season doing that right,

2892
02:11:51,439 --> 02:11:54,720
like shitty starting lineup metrics. Notwithstanding, like, I don't think,

2893
02:11:54,840 --> 02:11:57,359
I don't think that's a that's like that seems like

2894
02:11:57,399 --> 02:11:59,760
an irrational way to approach his development. You can't just

2895
02:11:59,800 --> 02:12:02,680
be like, oh, he's a reserve guard, like you decided that.

2896
02:12:02,840 --> 02:12:04,479
Speaker 1: I also don't think can you make the argument that

2897
02:12:04,520 --> 02:12:07,079
they're trying to showcase let's say three of the guys

2898
02:12:07,079 --> 02:12:08,279
that are in the sunning line right now?

2899
02:12:08,359 --> 02:12:10,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they ought to be right, like that's

2900
02:12:11,000 --> 02:12:14,039
that that would be what you should do. But who knows.

2901
02:12:14,359 --> 02:12:16,159
Speaker 1: We're still with me? Is this the run where there's

2902
02:12:16,159 --> 02:12:16,960
too many West teams?

2903
02:12:17,239 --> 02:12:18,239
Speaker 2: You got a couple more here.

2904
02:12:18,520 --> 02:12:20,319
Speaker 1: You didn't have to do any of this at the beginning.

2905
02:12:20,359 --> 02:12:24,039
You're so lucky. Sacramento Kings Kean Ellis slept with a

2906
02:12:24,039 --> 02:12:26,159
close personal friend of head coach Mike Brown and then

2907
02:12:26,199 --> 02:12:28,319
never called them. Am I overreacting?

2908
02:12:28,359 --> 02:12:31,800
Speaker 2: Do you think? I think in the search for explanations,

2909
02:12:31,840 --> 02:12:33,640
that's not the craziest one you could come up with.

2910
02:12:34,000 --> 02:12:36,880
Speaker 1: Mike Brown did come out, and I appreciate the candor said,

2911
02:12:36,960 --> 02:12:40,560
ke On Ellis's role is going to be situational, which, look,

2912
02:12:41,039 --> 02:12:43,079
Kevin Herder has played well this season, I think is

2913
02:12:43,359 --> 02:12:45,359
not only has he shot the ball better, I think

2914
02:12:45,359 --> 02:12:47,880
that his defense overall has been better. And so if

2915
02:12:47,880 --> 02:12:49,760
he's going to be the more dangerous shot maker and

2916
02:12:49,800 --> 02:12:52,439
not kill you on defense, which by the way, through

2917
02:12:52,439 --> 02:12:54,920
their first few games they are ninth in defense and

2918
02:12:54,960 --> 02:12:57,840
sixth in offense. It's resulted in a five hundred record, though,

2919
02:12:57,880 --> 02:12:59,520
so I don't like, we don't need to celebrate it.

2920
02:12:59,560 --> 02:13:02,880
I just when you look at how much their top

2921
02:13:02,960 --> 02:13:06,199
guys have played, something kind of has to give here

2922
02:13:06,279 --> 02:13:09,079
to why as Keon Ellis yet to even top He

2923
02:13:09,119 --> 02:13:12,119
played a little bit more in their blowout win over Utah.

2924
02:13:12,199 --> 02:13:14,479
But you have Kegan Murray at thirty seven point one,

2925
02:13:14,560 --> 02:13:17,119
Damar at thirty six point nine, do Mas at thirty

2926
02:13:17,119 --> 02:13:18,920
six point two. That's not a ke On Ellis thing.

2927
02:13:19,039 --> 02:13:21,119
That's a lot of Okay, we have Trey Lyles and

2928
02:13:21,399 --> 02:13:23,760
not we have Alex Lenne after that, and then Dearon

2929
02:13:23,800 --> 02:13:26,079
Fox at thirty six point one. You have Kevin Hurder

2930
02:13:26,079 --> 02:13:28,920
at twenty six point five, Malik Munk at twenty four

2931
02:13:28,920 --> 02:13:31,840
point seven. I understand there's a lot of bodies here,

2932
02:13:31,840 --> 02:13:33,880
but Kean Ellis had sub fifteen minutes per game with

2933
02:13:33,960 --> 02:13:37,439
by the way one DNP coach's decision sprinkled in. I

2934
02:13:37,479 --> 02:13:39,760
don't love it because I think they need the defense

2935
02:13:39,800 --> 02:13:42,600
of playmaking and peskiness he brings, and they're probably gonna

2936
02:13:42,600 --> 02:13:45,760
offset a little bit of their offense by doing that.

2937
02:13:45,800 --> 02:13:48,600
And he has not looked like I thought he had

2938
02:13:48,640 --> 02:13:51,000
a little bit more on ball wiggle and shake to him,

2939
02:13:51,000 --> 02:13:54,000
He's never gonna explore that on this team. But he's

2940
02:13:54,479 --> 02:13:56,239
he isn't shooting the three ball well. He hasn't taken

2941
02:13:56,239 --> 02:13:59,399
a ton of them because he's barely played, So I understand.

2942
02:13:59,439 --> 02:14:01,199
But I'm almost just kind of looking at this and saying,

2943
02:14:01,600 --> 02:14:03,239
you of the Kings of all teams, kind of knowing

2944
02:14:03,319 --> 02:14:05,199
how banged up even when your guys are gonna play

2945
02:14:05,239 --> 02:14:07,760
they can be by year's end. This doesn't feel like

2946
02:14:07,800 --> 02:14:11,039
the best allocation of minutes to me when you're looking

2947
02:14:11,079 --> 02:14:15,560
at the top eight of your rotation, and I'm just like,

2948
02:14:15,680 --> 02:14:17,239
if we move forward, this is the one I was

2949
02:14:17,319 --> 02:14:19,359
iffiist on. I thought about changing it, just because the

2950
02:14:19,439 --> 02:14:21,039
Kings are, like I said, top ten and off as

2951
02:14:21,079 --> 02:14:23,800
a defense so far, I just think at the top

2952
02:14:23,880 --> 02:14:26,680
like there's room to shave minutes off of Fox of

2953
02:14:26,760 --> 02:14:29,239
the Rosen, maybe not so much of Monk, but I

2954
02:14:29,239 --> 02:14:30,920
would say maybe even I herd her because this is

2955
02:14:30,960 --> 02:14:32,600
a guy who's had a lot of shoulder issues the

2956
02:14:32,600 --> 02:14:35,000
past like year and a half, and let's get Kean

2957
02:14:35,079 --> 02:14:37,800
Ellis just some more minutes in there, and yeah, changes

2958
02:14:37,840 --> 02:14:40,319
the dynamics of your team, but I think it could

2959
02:14:40,359 --> 02:14:42,399
maybe like let's try to limit the wear and there

2960
02:14:42,399 --> 02:14:43,840
on our best players right here.

2961
02:14:44,319 --> 02:14:47,159
Speaker 2: So I was It's funny. I was talking to a

2962
02:14:47,399 --> 02:14:50,720
King's season ticket holder, multi year season ticket holder this

2963
02:14:50,800 --> 02:14:55,600
morning and I specifically ask your wife, yeah, right, yeah,

2964
02:14:55,640 --> 02:15:00,479
the marriage would be over. H I asked him, like, so, like,

2965
02:15:00,760 --> 02:15:03,720
what's why is Herder playing so much? Like are are

2966
02:15:03,760 --> 02:15:05,840
you Like I'm fishing for him to be like yeah,

2967
02:15:05,840 --> 02:15:08,680
I can't believe it. I thought Ellis would. I stupidly

2968
02:15:08,840 --> 02:15:12,520
and uh conceitedly thought like what we had been saying

2969
02:15:12,560 --> 02:15:14,640
about Ellis and how important he is to balance out

2970
02:15:14,680 --> 02:15:18,239
an offense leaning team, like I thought everybody would think that, like, well, yeah,

2971
02:15:18,279 --> 02:15:20,760
Ellis should be playing more. But he was like no,

2972
02:15:21,119 --> 02:15:24,800
I mean like Herder moves great off the ball. The

2973
02:15:24,840 --> 02:15:27,680
defense is afraid of him, like he he can do

2974
02:15:27,800 --> 02:15:30,000
something with it if he gets closed out on and

2975
02:15:30,079 --> 02:15:32,880
like he's just a better, more versatile shooter paraphrasing, but

2976
02:15:32,920 --> 02:15:34,800
that was the gist of it, and I was like,

2977
02:15:34,840 --> 02:15:37,760
and he's like Ellis makes stand still threes and that's

2978
02:15:37,840 --> 02:15:40,520
kind of it. And I was like, wow, I you know,

2979
02:15:40,720 --> 02:15:44,680
I guess like if Herder is just a better overall player,

2980
02:15:45,000 --> 02:15:48,199
which is debatable, I think still given the needs that

2981
02:15:48,279 --> 02:15:51,079
this team we thought would have now the offense of

2982
02:15:51,119 --> 02:15:54,399
the defensive ratings suggests maybe we were like exaggerating that,

2983
02:15:54,439 --> 02:15:56,680
but like, I still think if you zoom all the

2984
02:15:56,680 --> 02:15:58,600
way out, this is a team that's gonna need more

2985
02:15:58,680 --> 02:16:01,239
than one good perimeter to Fender on the floor, and

2986
02:16:01,359 --> 02:16:05,000
Keithan Murray is the one. So this has got a

2987
02:16:05,119 --> 02:16:07,760
change still, even though Herder has been good and I

2988
02:16:07,800 --> 02:16:11,960
am receptive to like one more like really dangerous offensive

2989
02:16:11,960 --> 02:16:15,119
player in a lineup that already has several Like that's

2990
02:16:15,199 --> 02:16:19,600
kind of interesting in like a playing tier strengths kind

2991
02:16:19,600 --> 02:16:23,600
of framework. But I still I righte like Ellis just

2992
02:16:23,720 --> 02:16:25,960
has to get one minutes eventually, don't Maybe if this

2993
02:16:26,000 --> 02:16:27,720
is coincidentally keep bringing it up. Maybe this is a

2994
02:16:27,800 --> 02:16:30,479
Herder showcase. Maybe you're trying to prop up his value

2995
02:16:30,479 --> 02:16:31,680
because you know you're a inter thing.

2996
02:16:32,399 --> 02:16:34,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, look at he has been good. I

2997
02:16:34,280 --> 02:16:36,040
just don't know that this is sustainable and it just

2998
02:16:36,079 --> 02:16:38,920
feels weird. I guess I'm not a big believer in

2999
02:16:39,000 --> 02:16:41,840
kind of the defensive returns so far. I mean when

3000
02:16:41,840 --> 02:16:43,760
you see like kind of what happened at points during

3001
02:16:43,760 --> 02:16:46,319
the I mean the Lakers game specifically. I also just

3002
02:16:46,719 --> 02:16:48,680
I guess, my big I don't even know if this

3003
02:16:48,719 --> 02:16:50,959
is an issue, but it's okay, Well, what needs to

3004
02:16:50,959 --> 02:16:52,920
happen for him to get real minutes because you didn't

3005
02:16:52,920 --> 02:16:55,840
play him a ton against Utah where you like blue

3006
02:16:55,920 --> 02:16:58,079
doors off of them, So what kind of needs to

3007
02:16:58,159 --> 02:17:00,520
happen there for him? Like, what is what is the situation?

3008
02:17:00,600 --> 02:17:02,319
Will mean? I guess I want to know explain to

3009
02:17:02,360 --> 02:17:04,520
me the situation in which Kean Els is gonna get minutes,

3010
02:17:04,559 --> 02:17:07,639
because it doesn't seem like he's even guaranteed minutes in

3011
02:17:07,680 --> 02:17:10,319
a game that you're going to win rather comfortably.

3012
02:17:10,760 --> 02:17:14,000
Speaker 2: I think the situation is one, you've just traded her

3013
02:17:14,040 --> 02:17:16,559
her because you pumped his value up deliberately. Or two

3014
02:17:17,159 --> 02:17:19,639
they give up like one forty five, you know, three

3015
02:17:19,680 --> 02:17:22,079
times in a week, and then they realize this, this

3016
02:17:22,159 --> 02:17:23,879
starting lineup cannot continue.

3017
02:17:24,479 --> 02:17:26,520
Speaker 1: Let's move on to the Spurs. I have them as well.

3018
02:17:26,680 --> 02:17:29,040
I did steer clear Victor women Yaba for the most

3019
02:17:29,040 --> 02:17:30,639
part here do you think we should have leaned into

3020
02:17:30,680 --> 02:17:32,159
He's not going to figure it out on offense at

3021
02:17:32,159 --> 02:17:35,680
all because of the way defenses are just they've decided, well,

3022
02:17:35,719 --> 02:17:37,479
he's gonna do this to us on defense, like they're

3023
02:17:37,520 --> 02:17:39,840
loading up against Wemby. It's not like, yeah, really.

3024
02:17:39,920 --> 02:17:42,680
Speaker 2: Real quickly before, because we talk about Wemby plenty. I

3025
02:17:42,719 --> 02:17:45,239
do think what we've seen so far this season reinforces

3026
02:17:45,319 --> 02:17:48,079
the fact that, like there's no question about his defense,

3027
02:17:48,559 --> 02:17:50,600
it's still really hard to figure out, like how you

3028
02:17:50,600 --> 02:17:53,799
should use this guy offensively. Like I really still am

3029
02:17:53,879 --> 02:17:55,840
less sure about that than I've ever been. And part

3030
02:17:55,879 --> 02:17:57,440
of that's how defenses are playing him. But part of

3031
02:17:57,440 --> 02:17:59,399
that's just like the size and skill set and like

3032
02:17:59,760 --> 02:18:01,879
the types of players that teams are guarding him with.

3033
02:18:01,959 --> 02:18:03,360
I just like I don't know what to do with

3034
02:18:03,399 --> 02:18:04,120
him on offense.

3035
02:18:04,680 --> 02:18:07,840
Speaker 1: So my actual overreaction is the turnovers are here to stay.

3036
02:18:08,239 --> 02:18:10,680
I know Trey Jones has been banged up to start

3037
02:18:10,719 --> 02:18:13,280
the year, and I know Chris Paul's thirty nine, but

3038
02:18:13,319 --> 02:18:15,840
like he was brought on in part to solve this issue.

3039
02:18:16,440 --> 02:18:18,719
They are turning the ball over in eighteen percent of

3040
02:18:18,719 --> 02:18:21,600
their possessions basically, which ranks twenty seventh in the league.

3041
02:18:21,760 --> 02:18:24,799
That mark is not much better when Chris Paul is

3042
02:18:25,000 --> 02:18:27,000
on the floor, and I think you look at this

3043
02:18:27,079 --> 02:18:31,120
team and you say, okay, well this can be. It'll normalize.

3044
02:18:31,120 --> 02:18:33,159
For CP three in particular, he's turned the ball over

3045
02:18:33,200 --> 02:18:35,360
a bunch relative too. I mean if if the season

3046
02:18:35,399 --> 02:18:38,040
ended today, which luckily for them it doesn't, but his

3047
02:18:38,120 --> 02:18:40,920
career high turnover rate, what would you have guessed his

3048
02:18:40,920 --> 02:18:43,399
career high turnover rate was grant before this year?

3049
02:18:44,040 --> 02:18:46,520
Speaker 2: What is it this year? Just for point of reference, twenty.

3050
02:18:46,399 --> 02:18:48,000
Speaker 1: One point nine. And that's, by the way, that's like

3051
02:18:48,000 --> 02:18:48,799
a six point.

3052
02:18:48,719 --> 02:18:52,000
Speaker 2: Drop of what it. It can't be well, he's on

3053
02:18:52,079 --> 02:18:54,520
the ball all the time, I don't know, like fourteen percent.

3054
02:18:54,959 --> 02:18:58,559
Speaker 1: It's fifteen point eight and he's only been above fourteen twice. Okay,

3055
02:18:58,680 --> 02:19:02,079
So again, that's definitely a symptom of the personnel, of

3056
02:19:02,159 --> 02:19:05,440
poor spacing, of having to experiment. I've seen some people

3057
02:19:05,440 --> 02:19:07,239
were getting mad at like points where it looks like

3058
02:19:07,239 --> 02:19:10,360
Wemby and CP three are off the court together and

3059
02:19:10,399 --> 02:19:13,120
they're not going to love that. I understand it, And

3060
02:19:13,120 --> 02:19:14,959
I also understand that Chris Paul wasn't going to come

3061
02:19:14,959 --> 02:19:16,559
in as a thirty nine year old and have this,

3062
02:19:17,440 --> 02:19:21,479
you know, comprehensive change over everyone and experimenting with Stefan Cassell.

3063
02:19:21,520 --> 02:19:24,239
Of course that's going to add to it, but it's

3064
02:19:24,319 --> 02:19:28,319
super discouraging. And I don't like Devin Masel just by

3065
02:19:28,360 --> 02:19:30,239
coming in in virtue of opening up the floor, does

3066
02:19:30,280 --> 02:19:32,600
he change this it all? It kind of just feels

3067
02:19:32,639 --> 02:19:35,399
like the Spurs are This might be a more route

3068
02:19:35,479 --> 02:19:37,559
or a more subtle way of saying, I'm focusing on

3069
02:19:37,600 --> 02:19:39,879
the turnovers, but we were way too much on the

3070
02:19:39,879 --> 02:19:42,200
spurs and skis everybody, even us too. I think we're

3071
02:19:42,200 --> 02:19:44,520
more measured. Was just like, oh, this team is ready

3072
02:19:44,520 --> 02:19:47,559
to pop, and it's okay, let's let's kind of slow

3073
02:19:47,600 --> 02:19:49,920
our role here on this team because they're still going

3074
02:19:49,959 --> 02:19:53,360
through the typical growing pains despite having what we believe

3075
02:19:53,399 --> 02:19:54,559
to be is going to be one of the best

3076
02:19:54,559 --> 02:19:57,760
players of all time, Like they're twenty offense right now.

3077
02:19:57,840 --> 02:19:59,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think like there's a chance that this

3078
02:20:00,120 --> 02:20:02,239
actually you're saying it's here to stay. This could just

3079
02:20:02,280 --> 02:20:04,559
get worse because one of the one of the one

3080
02:20:04,600 --> 02:20:06,680
of the things that that could happen this year is

3081
02:20:06,680 --> 02:20:08,520
they just like as they decide, like we just got

3082
02:20:08,520 --> 02:20:11,120
to get Wenby more touches. However that needs to happen,

3083
02:20:11,479 --> 02:20:14,399
and he's just gonna be a higher turnover guy because

3084
02:20:14,399 --> 02:20:16,840
of the hygh dribble, because of the like he tries

3085
02:20:16,840 --> 02:20:18,959
shit like which I think is a feature and not

3086
02:20:19,079 --> 02:20:20,760
a bug, Like he really will try to make some

3087
02:20:20,840 --> 02:20:22,879
passes that are just not there because he sees him

3088
02:20:23,159 --> 02:20:25,079
but it's just you know, so I think I think

3089
02:20:25,079 --> 02:20:27,079
that's actually a mark of a player that you know,

3090
02:20:27,479 --> 02:20:31,600
has a news splash. Wemby has like pretty high offensive potential,

3091
02:20:32,879 --> 02:20:36,680
but like I could just see especially Paul gets hurt,

3092
02:20:36,760 --> 02:20:38,920
that's gonna happen. And then you do just try to

3093
02:20:38,959 --> 02:20:41,319
force feed Wemby to try and just try different things

3094
02:20:41,319 --> 02:20:43,559
to figure out like how do we maximize what he

3095
02:20:43,600 --> 02:20:45,280
can give us? And I think that's just going to

3096
02:20:45,319 --> 02:20:48,239
produce more turnovers. So I think it could get worse.

3097
02:20:48,840 --> 02:20:51,399
Speaker 1: And they're not and I think people should not expect

3098
02:20:51,479 --> 02:20:53,639
them to try and make a trade and an attempt

3099
02:20:53,680 --> 02:20:56,040
to get better. I mean the defense is I mean,

3100
02:20:56,319 --> 02:20:58,760
how much of the Utah game is doing any heavy

3101
02:20:58,799 --> 02:21:02,440
lifting here? But like their fifth in defense, So like

3102
02:21:02,520 --> 02:21:05,159
that's you know, that's that's something. What were they If

3103
02:21:05,200 --> 02:21:07,079
you had to guess what were they before the Utah game?

3104
02:21:09,079 --> 02:21:12,200
Probably you think, oh, you think the jump was that big?

3105
02:21:12,360 --> 02:21:14,000
Speaker 2: I have I don't know. I just think every jump

3106
02:21:14,040 --> 02:21:16,159
is bigger than we get. We assume it's gonna.

3107
02:21:15,920 --> 02:21:18,159
Speaker 1: Be off the filter that out, but we we could

3108
02:21:18,239 --> 02:21:21,959
we could move on to message your team again, sucking grant.

3109
02:21:23,040 --> 02:21:26,120
Speaker 2: But it's your guy. Uh, the Toronto Raptors h R J.

3110
02:21:26,239 --> 02:21:30,000
Barrett is the second most important player to the Toronto

3111
02:21:30,079 --> 02:21:34,159
Raptors future. Uh, that's that's pretty hot, taky. Here's the

3112
02:21:34,280 --> 02:21:37,520
here's the gist of it. Uh. Scotty Barnes is one. Obviously,

3113
02:21:37,559 --> 02:21:39,520
even though his his uh he got his he got

3114
02:21:39,520 --> 02:21:42,319
his face broke recently, so that's gonna cost him what

3115
02:21:42,399 --> 02:21:44,040
three to four weeks I think? Or is that the

3116
02:21:44,079 --> 02:21:47,799
three to four weeks and then evalue reevaluated anyway, he's

3117
02:21:47,799 --> 02:21:51,000
out fractured orbital not great. This is just an argument

3118
02:21:51,040 --> 02:21:53,280
that Barrett at least has a case to be more valuable,

3119
02:21:53,319 --> 02:21:56,799
more important, big picture than Emmanuel Quickly, which might not

3120
02:21:57,159 --> 02:21:59,680
be something Raptors fans love because Quickly is the guy

3121
02:21:59,719 --> 02:22:03,280
that just paid. But I mean the way Barrett has

3122
02:22:03,319 --> 02:22:06,040
played so now, it's he's played a couple games this season,

3123
02:22:06,319 --> 02:22:08,280
but he looked like a different guy down the stretch

3124
02:22:08,319 --> 02:22:10,200
last year after coming over from the Knicks. The average

3125
02:22:10,200 --> 02:22:14,520
of twenty five, five and five is shooting threes at

3126
02:22:14,639 --> 02:22:18,079
a fifty percent clip, which is just like okay, but

3127
02:22:18,120 --> 02:22:20,879
like he still just seems like the guy that man

3128
02:22:20,879 --> 02:22:23,559
he gets going downhill and good things happen. He's got

3129
02:22:23,559 --> 02:22:26,399
the draft pedigree, Like there's a case here right that

3130
02:22:26,399 --> 02:22:30,360
that Quickly just is like a a really really great

3131
02:22:30,399 --> 02:22:32,719
backup or like a mid tier starting point guard, and

3132
02:22:32,719 --> 02:22:35,200
Barrett's just better than that at a wing position that

3133
02:22:35,280 --> 02:22:36,079
might matter more.

3134
02:22:37,120 --> 02:22:40,760
Speaker 1: I don't think he's an overreaction, maybe because I came

3135
02:22:40,840 --> 02:22:43,600
up with it. I actually the Raptors fan seem to

3136
02:22:43,639 --> 02:22:45,639
think that it might just be Graaty Dick is the

3137
02:22:45,680 --> 02:22:46,600
second most what.

3138
02:22:47,040 --> 02:22:48,280
Speaker 2: We're really going for it.

3139
02:22:48,399 --> 02:22:53,719
Speaker 1: Huh. Look, he's definitely got more on the ball, and

3140
02:22:53,760 --> 02:22:55,520
for someone who I think has moved a lot better

3141
02:22:55,600 --> 02:22:59,120
defensively this year, I could see it but I would

3142
02:22:59,280 --> 02:23:02,879
I still think think everything you said holds truer. I

3143
02:23:02,920 --> 02:23:06,520
do think because of maybe the facilitation potential, that's what

3144
02:23:06,520 --> 02:23:08,159
this might come down. I think the two things that

3145
02:23:08,239 --> 02:23:11,520
comes down to is you trust the manual Quickly's outside

3146
02:23:11,520 --> 02:23:14,719
shop making more both on and off the ball, right yeah, yeah, yeah,

3147
02:23:14,719 --> 02:23:16,520
but you're gonna try. I think you trust R. J.

3148
02:23:16,639 --> 02:23:20,959
Barrett's dynamics getting downhill, whether he's on off the ball more. Right,

3149
02:23:21,360 --> 02:23:24,319
So who winds up being the better facilitator slash defender

3150
02:23:24,360 --> 02:23:26,120
for this team? And as I talked about with Samson Folk,

3151
02:23:26,479 --> 02:23:29,239
Quickly hasn't been that good with the Raptors. I think

3152
02:23:29,239 --> 02:23:31,600
as he gets more familiar, you'll see him navigate the

3153
02:23:31,639 --> 02:23:35,319
Florence Greens better. But I think it's a discussion between

3154
02:23:35,319 --> 02:23:37,360
the two, right, just what they paid Quickly like he's

3155
02:23:37,399 --> 02:23:39,440
the answer, just because it's so long term and so

3156
02:23:39,559 --> 02:23:40,079
much money.

3157
02:23:40,159 --> 02:23:43,120
Speaker 2: And I would I would frame it too positively because

3158
02:23:43,159 --> 02:23:45,840
like I do think Quickly is gonna be a good

3159
02:23:45,879 --> 02:23:48,959
starter and can be better than that potentially. I think

3160
02:23:48,959 --> 02:23:51,159
this is just an acknowledgement that Barrett is like better

3161
02:23:51,280 --> 02:23:53,680
than than we thought. I think, I think I think

3162
02:23:53,719 --> 02:23:55,600
it's it's a good. It's a good issue if we're

3163
02:23:55,600 --> 02:23:58,239
having this discussion for the Raptors, not a like, oh quickly,

3164
02:23:58,239 --> 02:23:59,920
ain't it like that's not that's not the point of it.

3165
02:24:00,440 --> 02:24:02,399
Speaker 1: Let's go to the Utah Jazz. I'm curious whether you

3166
02:24:02,399 --> 02:24:06,040
think this is an overreaction. The rebuild is more behind

3167
02:24:06,040 --> 02:24:10,000
schedule than we actually think. And here's the thing. What

3168
02:24:10,040 --> 02:24:12,639
I mean by this is not looking at this season

3169
02:24:12,719 --> 02:24:16,319
and saying, oh, this team is supposed to be better,

3170
02:24:16,520 --> 02:24:18,520
by the way, if you care. San Antonio was fifteenth

3171
02:24:18,559 --> 02:24:21,319
in defense before that the Jazz game, by the way,

3172
02:24:21,520 --> 02:24:23,239
so it was a pretty big jump ten spots. But

3173
02:24:23,239 --> 02:24:24,680
you were still wrong, and I like to point that out.

3174
02:24:24,760 --> 02:24:25,600
Speaker 2: That's the important part.

3175
02:24:26,440 --> 02:24:29,639
Speaker 1: So the Jazz are kind of doing now. They're thirtieth

3176
02:24:29,639 --> 02:24:32,479
in offense, twentieth in defense. They have yet to win

3177
02:24:32,520 --> 02:24:36,040
a game. I get what they're doing now, and it's

3178
02:24:36,079 --> 02:24:37,639
the right thing to do. I want to make that clear.

3179
02:24:37,760 --> 02:24:39,799
But you look at it and you say you at

3180
02:24:39,879 --> 02:24:43,799
least wanted to have this idea or hope that oh,

3181
02:24:43,959 --> 02:24:47,399
maybe the best player of the next good iteration of

3182
02:24:47,440 --> 02:24:50,559
the Jazz is on this team, or maybe even the

3183
02:24:50,840 --> 02:24:53,200
like the second best player, And you can default to

3184
02:24:53,280 --> 02:24:55,799
Larry market In there, but is he really going to

3185
02:24:55,840 --> 02:24:57,879
be on the long term iteration of the Jazz If

3186
02:24:57,920 --> 02:25:00,040
I had to pick the non Larry Marketing division, I

3187
02:25:00,079 --> 02:25:02,680
don't see anyone right now who looks like they can

3188
02:25:02,680 --> 02:25:04,959
even be the second best player on the really good

3189
02:25:04,959 --> 02:25:08,639
iteration of the Jazz. And Cody Williams is not played

3190
02:25:08,719 --> 02:25:10,920
enough for us to go there. Taylor Hendricks the devastating

3191
02:25:10,920 --> 02:25:14,479
injury that just fucking sucks, Walker Kessler, even peak Walker

3192
02:25:14,559 --> 02:25:18,360
Kessler is not going to be that guy. Kiante George is.

3193
02:25:18,600 --> 02:25:20,399
I don't know you ever have these players you feel

3194
02:25:20,399 --> 02:25:22,520
a certain type of way about. But the aesthetics of

3195
02:25:22,559 --> 02:25:25,559
his game they look so good at like not the

3196
02:25:25,600 --> 02:25:28,239
turnovers obviously, but getting to his spots, how smooth he

3197
02:25:28,280 --> 02:25:31,559
can look like shooting the ball, making passes, and then

3198
02:25:31,559 --> 02:25:33,440
you just go look at the numbers or just watch

3199
02:25:33,520 --> 02:25:35,600
him miss all these shots, and it's all right, is

3200
02:25:35,639 --> 02:25:38,079
this are these two things ever gonna kind of overlap

3201
02:25:38,120 --> 02:25:41,280
the aesthetics with the numbers And the answer feels like, no,

3202
02:25:41,639 --> 02:25:44,079
I know, We're a season and change into his career.

3203
02:25:44,680 --> 02:25:46,360
That's where I'm kind of at on the Jazz is

3204
02:25:46,360 --> 02:25:48,879
they're not in a terrible spot because of these young

3205
02:25:48,920 --> 02:25:51,280
players still might be good, and they have all these

3206
02:25:51,319 --> 02:25:55,159
other picks and they have all this flexibility moving forward. However,

3207
02:25:56,600 --> 02:26:00,159
to not have like even someone who resembles a tent pole, well,

3208
02:26:00,840 --> 02:26:02,879
now we're what this is year three of the rebuild.

3209
02:26:03,200 --> 02:26:04,639
Yeah that's concerning.

3210
02:26:05,040 --> 02:26:07,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, the extra picks and the flexibility and all that

3211
02:26:07,799 --> 02:26:11,559
stuff helps, but yeah, it's just I mean, the Hendrick's injury,

3212
02:26:11,639 --> 02:26:13,760
what are you gonna do? But that removes one guy

3213
02:26:13,760 --> 02:26:15,399
at least for now that we can sort of like

3214
02:26:15,520 --> 02:26:17,520
start looking at like, oh, is he maybe gonna be

3215
02:26:18,120 --> 02:26:20,000
like he didn't look like it before the injury, and

3216
02:26:20,040 --> 02:26:22,319
now we're just gonna have to wait. I mean, Walker

3217
02:26:22,399 --> 02:26:25,000
Kesseler is someone they keep, I guess trying to trade

3218
02:26:25,040 --> 02:26:27,840
or at least are open to. I mean like yeah,

3219
02:26:27,879 --> 02:26:30,559
and I feel actually you asked, like do I have

3220
02:26:30,639 --> 02:26:33,360
those guys that I feel George is that is one

3221
02:26:33,399 --> 02:26:35,959
of those guys for me where it's like the aesthetics

3222
02:26:35,959 --> 02:26:38,079
are there, like you could see the flashes of like

3223
02:26:38,120 --> 02:26:42,760
that guy looks like a good, like exciting starting point guard,

3224
02:26:43,159 --> 02:26:45,319
and then the production just is what it is, Like

3225
02:26:45,520 --> 02:26:48,239
it's all eye test, you know, in the positive sense

3226
02:26:48,239 --> 02:26:50,680
for him. Yeah, I mean, and you'd love to blame

3227
02:26:50,719 --> 02:26:53,719
it on the like you know, half assed tanks of

3228
02:26:53,719 --> 02:26:55,959
the last couple of years, but like, yeah, you didn't

3229
02:26:55,959 --> 02:26:58,680
get Wimby that was a mistake or you didn't you know,

3230
02:26:58,719 --> 02:27:01,079
you could have done better in that draft positioning yourself.

3231
02:27:01,280 --> 02:27:03,680
But like they came out of this one with Cody Williams,

3232
02:27:03,719 --> 02:27:05,799
and like in this draft, like who knows, Cody Williams

3233
02:27:05,879 --> 02:27:08,399
might just be the best guy. That's that's not totally

3234
02:27:08,399 --> 02:27:09,440
off the table at this point.

3235
02:27:09,719 --> 02:27:12,200
Speaker 1: My even by this year's rookie class standards, my Cody

3236
02:27:12,200 --> 02:27:14,639
Williams will make top finished, top three Rookie of the

3237
02:27:14,680 --> 02:27:16,079
year voting predictions not looking So.

3238
02:27:16,200 --> 02:27:18,559
Speaker 2: It's so early. It's so early, Like I I mean,

3239
02:27:18,639 --> 02:27:19,120
do you think.

3240
02:27:18,959 --> 02:27:21,799
Speaker 1: This as an appropriate overreaction that or is it not overreaction?

3241
02:27:21,920 --> 02:27:24,760
Speaker 2: No? This is this is well, this is like the

3242
02:27:24,840 --> 02:27:28,120
correct take. I feel like unfortunately, so maybe it's not

3243
02:27:28,159 --> 02:27:30,760
a good overreaction. It's a correct reaction.

3244
02:27:30,760 --> 02:27:37,000
Speaker 1: Onto your Yeah, Washington Wizards and my large adult son.

3245
02:27:40,200 --> 02:27:42,280
Speaker 2: Dan billall coolbal is a future All Star.

3246
02:27:42,799 --> 02:27:43,879
Speaker 1: H wow.

3247
02:27:44,040 --> 02:27:47,920
Speaker 2: A fair amount of tape on this fella. A couple

3248
02:27:47,920 --> 02:27:51,120
of days ago, unrelated to this, there was a really

3249
02:27:51,159 --> 02:27:53,280
good write up with a lot of scouts takes in

3250
02:27:53,760 --> 02:27:56,799
Josh Robbins for the Athletic has been doing that for

3251
02:27:56,799 --> 02:28:01,000
for some I think just Wizards players, but coolally like

3252
02:28:01,399 --> 02:28:06,360
makes one showed up different than we thought as a rookie,

3253
02:28:07,319 --> 02:28:10,799
had better feel, just was more of like a basketball

3254
02:28:10,799 --> 02:28:13,600
player than anybody, like always raw, like he's just a

3255
02:28:13,600 --> 02:28:15,639
bunch of tools, Like he was more than that from

3256
02:28:15,639 --> 02:28:18,639
the jump. And now I do think you can just

3257
02:28:18,719 --> 02:28:21,159
bank on this guy's going to be a defensive monster

3258
02:28:21,200 --> 02:28:23,559
at a premium position because he can just guard your

3259
02:28:23,600 --> 02:28:26,239
six seven sixty eight guys and anything smaller than that

3260
02:28:26,319 --> 02:28:28,440
I'm he's fine with because he just has length and

3261
02:28:28,479 --> 02:28:31,200
foot speed. So the defense I think is gonna be there.

3262
02:28:31,680 --> 02:28:33,440
And then some of the on ball stuff, like some

3263
02:28:33,479 --> 02:28:36,319
of the finishing, some of the three point shooting flashes

3264
02:28:36,360 --> 02:28:39,280
you get like and you just you marry that just

3265
02:28:39,319 --> 02:28:41,799
with the frame, like just I know, I feel like

3266
02:28:41,840 --> 02:28:44,239
this partly got me into trouble with Kaminga and a

3267
02:28:44,280 --> 02:28:47,040
lot of other guys where it's like he's this size,

3268
02:28:47,079 --> 02:28:50,799
he's this athletic, and he could he's showing signs of

3269
02:28:50,840 --> 02:28:52,479
stuff on both ends of the court. I'm just like,

3270
02:28:52,520 --> 02:28:54,559
I'm in I just want to buy stock in that

3271
02:28:54,600 --> 02:28:57,239
guy and Koli Bally. I think it sells him short

3272
02:28:57,319 --> 02:28:59,479
to just say, oh, it's about the like physicals, it's

3273
02:28:59,520 --> 02:29:02,440
about the that's a factor because he does have like

3274
02:29:02,559 --> 02:29:05,360
real game on both ends. So I know I don't

3275
02:29:05,399 --> 02:29:07,760
have to sell you on this, but but I think

3276
02:29:08,159 --> 02:29:10,799
I think it's legitimate that he has an all star potential.

3277
02:29:11,520 --> 02:29:14,079
Speaker 1: What do we talk about a lot on this podcast,

3278
02:29:14,159 --> 02:29:16,559
And one of my favorite words probably a cliche at

3279
02:29:16,559 --> 02:29:20,639
this point when it comes to stardom or high end

3280
02:29:20,680 --> 02:29:25,920
players scalability. The Atlanta Hawks game, which I that was

3281
02:29:25,920 --> 02:29:27,879
the game of his NBA life, so it's like not

3282
02:29:27,959 --> 02:29:31,120
the greatest example, but he did literally everything, whether it

3283
02:29:31,239 --> 02:29:34,000
was just space the floor, hit threes, there was I

3284
02:29:34,079 --> 02:29:36,440
think my favorite sequence of the game is navigates the

3285
02:29:36,479 --> 02:29:40,440
floor to screen perfectly, is able to like intercept the

3286
02:29:40,479 --> 02:29:43,280
past that's trying to come in over his head, defers

3287
02:29:43,360 --> 02:29:45,559
it goes, they go the length of the floor, someone

3288
02:29:45,600 --> 02:29:47,559
misses a shot and he's there just to put it back.

3289
02:29:47,600 --> 02:29:50,479
Like this guy is just all like he is way smarter.

3290
02:29:50,559 --> 02:29:52,680
It's not just yeah, those physical tools are on display,

3291
02:29:52,680 --> 02:29:57,079
but he's using them so intelligibly more than obviously you

3292
02:29:57,239 --> 02:29:58,760
or I didn't. We don't cover the draft like that,

3293
02:29:58,840 --> 02:30:00,559
so we were going off other opinion. So I'm not

3294
02:30:00,600 --> 02:30:02,079
gonna poo poo other people's takes.

3295
02:30:02,079 --> 02:30:02,200
Speaker 2: Ye.

3296
02:30:02,760 --> 02:30:04,799
Speaker 1: I just look at him, and I'm like, there is

3297
02:30:05,040 --> 02:30:06,840
We said it last year, used the word feel this

3298
02:30:06,920 --> 02:30:08,479
year there is more to the point where from the

3299
02:30:08,520 --> 02:30:09,959
first like one or two games, I was concerned he

3300
02:30:10,000 --> 02:30:12,399
wasn't gonna shoot enough because he was just so focused

3301
02:30:12,440 --> 02:30:15,440
on like developing the handle on the vision rant. He's

3302
02:30:15,479 --> 02:30:17,479
their most efficient scorer out of the pick and roll

3303
02:30:17,879 --> 02:30:18,360
right now.

3304
02:30:18,520 --> 02:30:19,280
Speaker 2: That's terrifying.

3305
02:30:19,600 --> 02:30:22,079
Speaker 1: I mean, and it's not he's I mean, he's averaging

3306
02:30:22,079 --> 02:30:23,559
a point per possession out of the pick and roll.

3307
02:30:23,600 --> 02:30:25,120
So I want to make it clear, it's not he's more.

3308
02:30:25,200 --> 02:30:25,879
He's twenty and.

3309
02:30:25,879 --> 02:30:28,399
Speaker 2: He's not like a point guard. So I mean, that's unbelievable.

3310
02:30:28,840 --> 02:30:31,639
Speaker 1: And look, that's sixty fifth percentile. You you want to

3311
02:30:31,639 --> 02:30:33,760
I'll pick that from black cool BALI right now. Oh yeah,

3312
02:30:33,799 --> 02:30:35,280
you have to talk me out of it, and it

3313
02:30:35,280 --> 02:30:37,799
would be I think the position would still be will

3314
02:30:37,799 --> 02:30:40,079
he be on ball enough? Will he have the numbers enough?

3315
02:30:40,360 --> 02:30:42,840
And the answer is he's averaging over eighteen points per

3316
02:30:42,879 --> 02:30:45,319
game right now. And you would argue is just yes,

3317
02:30:45,600 --> 02:30:48,399
they have featured him more, but this is not like

3318
02:30:48,520 --> 02:30:51,719
his his usage overall is eighteen point three. So this

3319
02:30:51,799 --> 02:30:53,639
is not we don't get into total usage. You can

3320
02:30:53,639 --> 02:30:56,280
get into the like facilitation. This is this is their

3321
02:30:56,319 --> 02:30:58,399
third option who's averaging eighteen points a game. And I

3322
02:30:58,399 --> 02:30:59,840
think he's someone who cold at least be a team's

3323
02:31:00,239 --> 02:31:02,440
second option. And what might you be you want to

3324
02:31:02,520 --> 02:31:04,760
you know, you have Carrington and Pool and Kuzma is

3325
02:31:04,799 --> 02:31:08,600
he probably their fourth on certain possessions. So I just

3326
02:31:08,600 --> 02:31:10,559
look at him and I think he's good. If you

3327
02:31:10,600 --> 02:31:12,280
give me an over under one point five All Stars

3328
02:31:12,360 --> 02:31:14,559
right now, I'm gonna take the over. I think he's

3329
02:31:14,799 --> 02:31:16,040
shown so much.

3330
02:31:16,280 --> 02:31:21,760
Speaker 2: I think I think the the like again, the physical

3331
02:31:21,799 --> 02:31:25,440
tools are just like that alone is a head start,

3332
02:31:25,520 --> 02:31:28,120
and then the fact that like he also has like

3333
02:31:28,159 --> 02:31:30,799
you pointed out, like he's just way further along like

3334
02:31:30,879 --> 02:31:33,799
feel wise and intelligence wise. And then there's like he's

3335
02:31:33,879 --> 02:31:37,440
kind of like whatever weird niche like NBA thing you

3336
02:31:37,520 --> 02:31:39,280
like to fixate on. He kind of gives you some

3337
02:31:39,360 --> 02:31:42,920
of that, Like he's really hard to screen, and he's big.

3338
02:31:43,040 --> 02:31:45,079
Like usually the guys that are hard to screen are

3339
02:31:45,079 --> 02:31:47,760
like real, you know, you're like Marcus Smart was hard

3340
02:31:47,760 --> 02:31:50,399
to screen, Like it's rare for that to be the case.

3341
02:31:50,479 --> 02:31:53,479
Usually it's a little quick guys or whatever. Just he

3342
02:31:53,520 --> 02:31:55,920
has all these weird, little niche things that he flashes

3343
02:31:55,959 --> 02:31:58,559
where you're like, oh, that's like a that's a weird

3344
02:31:58,600 --> 02:32:01,319
premium skill that we could just like add to the

3345
02:32:01,360 --> 02:32:04,319
package of Like also, maybe he's a first option offensive

3346
02:32:04,319 --> 02:32:05,319
creator in three years.

3347
02:32:05,360 --> 02:32:08,440
Speaker 1: And look, that's the That's what we don't know, because

3348
02:32:08,479 --> 02:32:10,840
as good as he is right now, we have to

3349
02:32:10,879 --> 02:32:12,399
see And I think it helps the fact that he

3350
02:32:12,399 --> 02:32:14,440
can get his points in transition, play off the ball

3351
02:32:14,479 --> 02:32:16,799
really well. But look at his drives. I think he's

3352
02:32:16,760 --> 02:32:18,799
shooting fifty percent on drives this year. I believe they're

3353
02:32:18,799 --> 02:32:20,959
a little bit up from last year. Can he facilitate

3354
02:32:21,000 --> 02:32:22,959
out of those when defenses starts to load up against him?

3355
02:32:23,000 --> 02:32:25,200
Can he create for more of these dead stops? I

3356
02:32:25,239 --> 02:32:27,799
think that he's shown like the field intelligence I'd predicted, yes,

3357
02:32:27,799 --> 02:32:29,159
I don't know if I'd go as high as number

3358
02:32:29,159 --> 02:32:32,079
one option, but we haven't seen that response to his

3359
02:32:32,120 --> 02:32:34,399
breakout just yet I think because he was still sort

3360
02:32:34,399 --> 02:32:37,520
of this unknown quantity. The final thing I'll just ask you.

3361
02:32:38,520 --> 02:32:41,959
I've found myself after that Hawks game, torn between trolling

3362
02:32:42,000 --> 02:32:44,399
the Pacers for not just taking this guy who looks

3363
02:32:44,399 --> 02:32:47,239
like everything they need and then kind of deferring to well,

3364
02:32:47,239 --> 02:32:50,239
he wouldn't be playing for them anyway. Is what is

3365
02:32:50,280 --> 02:32:53,040
the more correct course to go here? Because Jared Walker's

3366
02:32:53,079 --> 02:32:55,760
not playing? Yeah, right, he had this opportunity to break

3367
02:32:55,799 --> 02:32:57,360
into the rotation last year and didn't.

3368
02:32:57,799 --> 02:33:00,360
Speaker 2: I think I can you can forgive the Pacers for

3369
02:33:00,520 --> 02:33:03,040
just not seeing it because like a lot of people

3370
02:33:03,079 --> 02:33:06,639
apparently didn't with cool Bally, But like, I think he

3371
02:33:06,680 --> 02:33:09,600
would be playing. I mean, like I think you didn't.

3372
02:33:09,799 --> 02:33:11,600
I like Aaron E. Smith as much as the next guy,

3373
02:33:11,639 --> 02:33:13,280
but I think you could play him over him. I

3374
02:33:13,280 --> 02:33:15,520
think maybe he's just in there instead of m hard

3375
02:33:15,680 --> 02:33:19,639
potentially like that. I yeah, that feels like a missed opportunity.

3376
02:33:19,680 --> 02:33:21,840
So I think trolling is probably the correct way to go.

3377
02:33:22,440 --> 02:33:27,600
Speaker 1: Lightning round time, mister Hughes, we have subscriber overreactions. I

3378
02:33:27,639 --> 02:33:29,399
will take us through them, or will alternate, but I'll

3379
02:33:29,399 --> 02:33:31,520
start first. This one hurts, but when I put it first,

3380
02:33:31,600 --> 02:33:35,079
because of the Palo injury. Rhet Bauer says, Palo Bancaro

3381
02:33:35,559 --> 02:33:38,719
already is what NBA Twitter said Anthony Edwards was going

3382
02:33:38,760 --> 02:33:41,120
to be. And then we had Philip who actually Philip

3383
02:33:41,120 --> 02:33:42,399
I think was the only one to appear in here

3384
02:33:42,479 --> 02:33:44,399
twice because he is a second spicy one I liked.

3385
02:33:44,719 --> 02:33:47,479
Palo won't win MVP, but we'll finish ahead of SGA

3386
02:33:48,000 --> 02:33:51,280
and Luca. Let's work backwards. He's not going to qualify

3387
02:33:51,280 --> 02:33:55,159
for MVP at this point, right that take, But that

3388
02:33:55,200 --> 02:33:58,239
would have been I could have seen it with SGA

3389
02:33:58,399 --> 02:34:00,680
because you could go the whole central force route and

3390
02:34:00,799 --> 02:34:03,360
SGA has all this other Yeah, I would have been

3391
02:34:03,399 --> 02:34:04,639
hard pressed to get there with Luca.

3392
02:34:04,799 --> 02:34:06,440
Speaker 2: Luca would just have to have gotten hurt. That's the

3393
02:34:06,760 --> 02:34:07,680
That's the only way.

3394
02:34:07,760 --> 02:34:09,399
Speaker 1: What do you make of the second one or the

3395
02:34:09,399 --> 02:34:09,799
first one?

3396
02:34:09,840 --> 02:34:13,280
Speaker 2: I guess technically so like face of the League stuff

3397
02:34:13,680 --> 02:34:15,760
or or that kind of thing. I mean, I will say,

3398
02:34:15,799 --> 02:34:18,680
watching that fifty pointer, it was just like, oh my god,

3399
02:34:18,719 --> 02:34:20,600
what do you do with this guy? Which is how

3400
02:34:20,639 --> 02:34:22,799
you do feel about Anthony Edwards when he's on a heater.

3401
02:34:23,239 --> 02:34:28,120
But the Bankero's just like physical, overwhelming style was even

3402
02:34:28,159 --> 02:34:30,399
though that fifty pointer had a lot of jumpers in it.

3403
02:34:30,840 --> 02:34:35,239
Just that was like my one note on that we'll

3404
02:34:35,239 --> 02:34:37,639
never know, or we won't know for four to six weeks,

3405
02:34:37,680 --> 02:34:39,000
I guess, is my reaction.

3406
02:34:38,719 --> 02:34:41,799
Speaker 1: There, I think he's out in definitely was the time table, right.

3407
02:34:41,799 --> 02:34:44,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the shorter one. I think was what they gave.

3408
02:34:44,520 --> 02:34:47,719
Speaker 1: Next up is we have excuse me a some choking.

3409
02:34:47,760 --> 02:34:49,959
Oh boy, this is yours fun dat Oh.

3410
02:34:49,920 --> 02:34:53,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, this from be rich. Steph Curry is holding back

3411
02:34:53,399 --> 02:34:55,479
this new era of the Warriors, and I do He

3412
02:34:55,559 --> 02:34:58,760
did want me to uh let everyone know that he

3413
02:34:58,879 --> 02:35:02,479
delivered this take very shortly after undergoing actual brain surgery,

3414
02:35:02,760 --> 02:35:04,959
but I feel like the take makes that clear, So

3415
02:35:05,200 --> 02:35:07,559
I don't feel like we need to let people people

3416
02:35:07,600 --> 02:35:09,799
know I almost killed Dan. If you're not watching that video,

3417
02:35:11,799 --> 02:35:15,000
it's a it's a half serious take, but I do

3418
02:35:15,079 --> 02:35:19,079
think it to view it charitably, it's just acknowledging how

3419
02:35:19,120 --> 02:35:21,879
deep this Warriors team is and how beautiful their style is.

3420
02:35:21,959 --> 02:35:24,120
With thirteen great players.

3421
02:35:24,159 --> 02:35:26,200
Speaker 1: We haven't even pulled out the fuck it's so deep

3422
02:35:26,280 --> 02:35:28,120
meme for the Warriors. Somebody needs to do that. But

3423
02:35:28,159 --> 02:35:31,120
I will say not to take this overly seriously. It

3424
02:35:31,159 --> 02:35:34,559
does speak further to Steph's low maintenance and scalability that

3425
02:35:34,639 --> 02:35:37,559
he's third of the Warriors in points per game. So

3426
02:35:37,559 --> 02:35:39,280
it's just like we're not hearing in grouse.

3427
02:35:39,440 --> 02:35:42,719
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well and just how there's no question, it's

3428
02:35:42,760 --> 02:35:44,840
like there's never gonna be like, oh, what's what about

3429
02:35:44,840 --> 02:35:47,559
when Steph comes back? Is he gonna disrupt all this? Like? No, no,

3430
02:35:47,600 --> 02:35:49,440
he's he does the opposite of that.

3431
02:35:49,760 --> 02:35:52,799
Speaker 1: My turn. We had this from retro Braiden. The Bucks

3432
02:35:52,840 --> 02:35:54,959
window has truly ended. It could still be a team

3433
02:35:55,000 --> 02:35:57,239
that wins enough games to make the playoffs every year,

3434
02:35:57,520 --> 02:35:59,959
but they will never be in championship contention. Ever, again

3435
02:36:00,520 --> 02:36:03,159
leads to Giannis asking out sooner than we thought. That's

3436
02:36:03,200 --> 02:36:06,479
from retro Brayden. We did cover the Bucks. I don't

3437
02:36:06,520 --> 02:36:08,719
even like this is a proper reaction at this.

3438
02:36:08,920 --> 02:36:13,319
Speaker 2: That's just correct. You're right, you're right, retro Braden accurate.

3439
02:36:13,559 --> 02:36:15,760
Speaker 1: So very quickly, this is the point of the round.

3440
02:36:15,760 --> 02:36:17,840
You don't get to elaborate on this is Giannis on

3441
02:36:17,920 --> 02:36:23,799
the Bucks in twenty six yes or no, Nope, elaborate

3442
02:36:23,840 --> 02:36:25,319
and I'm just kidding, just kidding.

3443
02:36:26,120 --> 02:36:29,200
Speaker 2: Next up, Oh, here we go. The Bucks need to

3444
02:36:29,200 --> 02:36:31,760
be blown up. Trade everyone fire Doc. Also, Willy Green

3445
02:36:31,760 --> 02:36:33,920
from the Pels will be the first coach fired. From Mattiel,

3446
02:36:34,639 --> 02:36:36,639
I mean we're on board with all the Bucks stuff,

3447
02:36:37,719 --> 02:36:38,680
will you? Yeah?

3448
02:36:38,799 --> 02:36:41,319
Speaker 1: Will? I mean we're what what other card do it?

3449
02:36:41,479 --> 02:36:43,200
What's the trade that you want them to make? I

3450
02:36:43,239 --> 02:36:45,680
don't it's a little too early. I guess what we've

3451
02:36:45,680 --> 02:36:47,200
seen a lot of Willy Green as a head coach,

3452
02:36:47,280 --> 02:36:48,680
though we haven't.

3453
02:36:49,319 --> 02:36:50,840
Speaker 2: Those are the two, right, I don't know who what

3454
02:36:50,920 --> 02:36:53,280
other coach? He like, Billy Donovan just seems to keep

3455
02:36:53,280 --> 02:36:55,920
skating by. Uh so those are those are your two?

3456
02:36:57,239 --> 02:36:59,200
Speaker 1: It's I think he is the coach most likely to

3457
02:36:59,239 --> 02:37:01,360
get fired, but I don't know if he I don't

3458
02:37:01,360 --> 02:37:03,639
know how much he deserves it. I would say he's

3459
02:37:03,639 --> 02:37:06,799
not blameless. Oh boy. The Utah Jazz have nothing to

3460
02:37:06,840 --> 02:37:09,440
show for their rebuilds so far. They don't have anyone

3461
02:37:09,479 --> 02:37:11,440
who projects out to be a number one option on

3462
02:37:11,479 --> 02:37:13,639
a decent team, and they are on the path to

3463
02:37:13,840 --> 02:37:18,159
perpetual mediocrity. That's from carroten Hold. I love Flames on

3464
02:37:18,159 --> 02:37:20,200
this take. We kind of just talked about it. I

3465
02:37:20,200 --> 02:37:23,079
would agree. I wouldn't say they have nothing to show

3466
02:37:23,120 --> 02:37:25,319
for their rebuild. The bounty of picks they have, they

3467
02:37:25,319 --> 02:37:27,840
could go out and I'll frame it this way. They

3468
02:37:27,879 --> 02:37:30,719
have the ability to create their own trade market if

3469
02:37:30,760 --> 02:37:33,520
they want to. Next up, Oh, this is for you, Grant,

3470
02:37:33,559 --> 02:37:34,159
this is yours.

3471
02:37:35,360 --> 02:37:38,719
Speaker 2: Oh, Ryan Dunn will at least be the Sun's fourth

3472
02:37:38,719 --> 02:37:40,879
best player, All Rookie First Team and a top five

3473
02:37:40,920 --> 02:37:43,319
defensive wing by the end of the season. From usher,

3474
02:37:43,879 --> 02:37:47,799
I mean fourth best, Okay, So Tyas Jones has got

3475
02:37:47,799 --> 02:37:50,280
to take a seat there. I guess like Royce O'Neill,

3476
02:37:50,360 --> 02:37:52,680
yusef Nurkic, I mean, if you've told me Ryan Dun's

3477
02:37:52,680 --> 02:37:54,959
gonna shoot forty percent from three on decent volume, then

3478
02:37:54,959 --> 02:37:56,639
like there's a real case here just because of the

3479
02:37:56,680 --> 02:38:01,120
defensive versatility, low usage role guy. He's kind of everything

3480
02:38:01,159 --> 02:38:04,920
you'd want from O'Neill, except just younger, more athletic. So

3481
02:38:05,719 --> 02:38:09,000
overreaction a little bit, But like, how else do you

3482
02:38:09,040 --> 02:38:11,159
react to a guy who just could not shoot at

3483
02:38:11,159 --> 02:38:13,399
all becoming like a plus shooter. I don't know, Like

3484
02:38:13,479 --> 02:38:15,360
I think it puts everything else on the table.

3485
02:38:15,719 --> 02:38:17,879
Speaker 1: Here's a list of every member of the Sons who

3486
02:38:17,959 --> 02:38:21,639
has made more threes than Ryan Done. Kevin Durant, Devin Booker,

3487
02:38:22,079 --> 02:38:26,280
that's the list. So I honestly all rookie first team,

3488
02:38:26,639 --> 02:38:28,719
I particularly making all rookie teams. I'll go on board

3489
02:38:28,760 --> 02:38:31,639
first teams. Well, with this draft class, it sucks.

3490
02:38:31,719 --> 02:38:33,840
Speaker 2: You read the whole thing about nobody's getting fifteen No

3491
02:38:33,879 --> 02:38:36,120
one scored fifteen points yet it's just like.

3492
02:38:36,440 --> 02:38:39,440
Speaker 1: So that's okay, that passes this inn if test. So

3493
02:38:39,520 --> 02:38:42,719
does I mean fourth best player? I so honestly, the

3494
02:38:42,719 --> 02:38:44,360
first team All rookie is probably the most like the

3495
02:38:44,399 --> 02:38:48,760
easy like, yeah, okay, fourth best player. I mean a

3496
02:38:48,879 --> 02:38:50,760
fifth best player might be his floor.

3497
02:38:51,479 --> 02:38:53,680
Speaker 2: I mean he might get their fourth best is tough

3498
02:38:53,719 --> 02:38:56,600
because there are like established veteran NBA players on this team,

3499
02:38:57,000 --> 02:39:00,479
but like, couldn't you see you know, the the black

3500
02:39:00,479 --> 02:39:03,440
box that is some of these advanced metrics. He just

3501
02:39:03,479 --> 02:39:06,840
grades out as like an elite defender, like for by

3502
02:39:06,879 --> 02:39:10,319
defensive estimated plus minus or like defensive rap whatever like

3503
02:39:10,520 --> 02:39:14,040
And that's just how he is statistically the fourth best player.

3504
02:39:14,079 --> 02:39:15,760
That's not being their own possibility at all.

3505
02:39:16,440 --> 02:39:18,479
Speaker 1: No. I mean, look, they're seventh in defense right now.

3506
02:39:18,479 --> 02:39:21,799
They've been outperforming their offense. So I favor this one.

3507
02:39:21,840 --> 02:39:24,319
I think he'll get one of these three things in

3508
02:39:24,360 --> 02:39:24,639
the bank.

3509
02:39:24,639 --> 02:39:27,680
Speaker 2: It's a perfect overreaction because it's it involves a rookie

3510
02:39:27,959 --> 02:39:30,159
who's doing a thing we didn't think he could do

3511
02:39:30,360 --> 02:39:33,040
for six games. Like, it's a perfect overreaction.

3512
02:39:33,600 --> 02:39:35,600
Speaker 1: I love that one. That was great. Thank you Usher

3513
02:39:36,120 --> 02:39:40,000
who Andrew Abraham. I miss Julius Randall already? Is there

3514
02:39:40,000 --> 02:39:42,559
a way to trade him back to the Knicks? I mean,

3515
02:39:42,559 --> 02:39:44,239
like we can cook up some trades where.

3516
02:39:44,079 --> 02:39:48,520
Speaker 2: You feel, do you miss Julius Randall? Is that is

3517
02:39:48,520 --> 02:39:50,239
that a common Knick sentiment? Or are they like, ah,

3518
02:39:50,239 --> 02:39:51,959
we could really use that secondary playmaking.

3519
02:39:52,040 --> 02:39:54,559
Speaker 1: Most Knicks fans are probably more optimal there. I think

3520
02:39:54,840 --> 02:39:57,479
Knicks fans are in the stage of you can't count

3521
02:39:57,520 --> 02:40:00,280
the Boston game, and it's just like, yeah, you taking

3522
02:40:00,319 --> 02:40:03,600
count twenty five percent of their schedule. That's my whole

3523
02:40:03,600 --> 02:40:06,200
thing is Boston was the measuring stick. I think this

3524
02:40:06,399 --> 02:40:09,040
proves how far away they probably are from Boston. It'd

3525
02:40:09,040 --> 02:40:11,840
be nice to see them with Mitchell Robinson impressious of

3526
02:40:11,920 --> 02:40:14,000
Chew and what that looks like a little bit. I

3527
02:40:14,000 --> 02:40:16,399
don't know. I'm still open minded on the Cat edition.

3528
02:40:16,440 --> 02:40:19,159
We talked about this already. I will say though, and

3529
02:40:19,200 --> 02:40:21,840
we've now said this, I do feel better about the

3530
02:40:21,840 --> 02:40:25,600
trade from Minnesota's perspective than I do about the Knicks,

3531
02:40:25,600 --> 02:40:28,399
because I think it started to set in the sobering

3532
02:40:28,440 --> 02:40:30,680
reality of what would happen if this doesn't play out

3533
02:40:30,760 --> 02:40:33,719
almost perfectly for New York and how boxed in that

3534
02:40:33,760 --> 02:40:35,920
they would be unless they make the Yannis trade that

3535
02:40:35,920 --> 02:40:36,760
we outlined for them.

3536
02:40:37,479 --> 02:40:40,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a soft landing for the Wolves relatively speaking,

3537
02:40:40,799 --> 02:40:43,079
and there's kind of just not one for the Knicks.

3538
02:40:44,360 --> 02:40:46,479
Speaker 1: Shout out Andrew though. Yeah, Julius Randall, I don't think

3539
02:40:46,479 --> 02:40:48,360
he's been that bad a minutisol. There's definitely awkwardness in

3540
02:40:48,399 --> 02:40:50,479
the starting five and with Gobert, but I think they're

3541
02:40:50,799 --> 02:40:53,520
again I've changed my perception of them by the possession,

3542
02:40:53,559 --> 02:40:56,040
but I think he's been fine for the most part.

3543
02:40:56,319 --> 02:40:57,520
I like these are good ones.

3544
02:40:57,680 --> 02:40:59,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got a two for from Austin here for

3545
02:41:00,440 --> 02:41:03,479
the Pacers will finish sub five hundred. Let's take that one. Uh,

3546
02:41:03,559 --> 02:41:06,239
that feels like an overreaction, but we did just call

3547
02:41:06,319 --> 02:41:09,639
them the twenty one Atlanta Hawks. I don't remember their record.

3548
02:41:09,680 --> 02:41:11,399
I think I probably they would have won like thirty

3549
02:41:11,399 --> 02:41:13,079
six games the next year or something like that.

3550
02:41:13,239 --> 02:41:16,120
Speaker 1: Aren't they contractually obligated to win no more than thirty

3551
02:41:16,159 --> 02:41:19,159
seven at this point, I'll double check that also is

3552
02:41:19,200 --> 02:41:19,959
a Pacers fan.

3553
02:41:20,360 --> 02:41:22,280
Speaker 2: I know, Well, so this is a this could be

3554
02:41:22,280 --> 02:41:25,719
a reverse Jinx attempt, but I don't I don't think

3555
02:41:25,719 --> 02:41:28,159
it is. I mean, sub five hundred is rough. I

3556
02:41:28,159 --> 02:41:31,520
feel like that's a Haliburton injury or a Siakam injury maybe,

3557
02:41:31,559 --> 02:41:34,280
because like they should win even if even if you think,

3558
02:41:34,319 --> 02:41:36,600
like all the offense just can't be second best anymore

3559
02:41:36,680 --> 02:41:39,319
and the defense is going to be a prop like

3560
02:41:39,399 --> 02:41:42,879
I don't know, like, well, they could win forty three.

3561
02:41:43,319 --> 02:41:46,159
Speaker 1: They lost, I mean, they barely beat the Pistons and

3562
02:41:46,200 --> 02:41:48,760
then they got blitzed by the Knicks. They needed overtime

3563
02:41:48,799 --> 02:41:51,520
to beat a Sixers team that doesn't have Embiid or

3564
02:41:51,559 --> 02:41:55,319
Paul George. They lost to what was a good version

3565
02:41:55,360 --> 02:41:57,079
of the Orlando Magics, and they were within for that,

3566
02:41:57,120 --> 02:41:58,920
and then it took them overtime to I mean, they

3567
02:41:58,920 --> 02:42:02,040
beat the Celtics, which which no one else has this season.

3568
02:42:02,120 --> 02:42:06,319
So there's that. It's definitely spicy, but someone's got a

3569
02:42:06,399 --> 02:42:08,239
kind of like who is it good? Like is it

3570
02:42:08,319 --> 02:42:10,239
gonna be the Knicks or the Bucks that are in

3571
02:42:10,360 --> 02:42:12,399
Who's more like go to finish under five hundred? Philly,

3572
02:42:12,600 --> 02:42:16,799
Milwaukee or Indiana. I don't know why I'm yelling at you,

3573
02:42:16,799 --> 02:42:18,559
by the way, I apologize.

3574
02:42:17,879 --> 02:42:19,879
Speaker 2: Man, those are all good. I guess you probably have

3575
02:42:19,920 --> 02:42:22,799
to say Indiana just because we know that the top

3576
02:42:22,959 --> 02:42:25,159
end versions of those other two teams are just better

3577
02:42:25,200 --> 02:42:26,159
than Indiana can be.

3578
02:42:27,280 --> 02:42:29,520
Speaker 1: The vibe Indiana seem a lot better than in Philly

3579
02:42:29,559 --> 02:42:31,040
and Milwaukee, though, if that's how it comes.

3580
02:42:30,799 --> 02:42:33,559
Speaker 2: To, yeah, I hate this is like a I always

3581
02:42:33,600 --> 02:42:36,600
like cringe when I hear this like line of reasoning.

3582
02:42:37,479 --> 02:42:39,159
I just I'll just say, like Bill Simmons does this

3583
02:42:39,239 --> 02:42:42,159
all the time, where he's like, there's always a team

3584
02:42:42,319 --> 02:42:44,760
that you thought was gonna be good that falls out,

3585
02:42:44,840 --> 02:42:46,440
you know that kind of thing. There's always a this

3586
02:42:47,079 --> 02:42:48,719
and we just don't know who it's gonna be yet.

3587
02:42:48,719 --> 02:42:50,840
Because it's like, well, okay, I don't know what actual

3588
02:42:51,000 --> 02:42:54,120
like logical point you're making, but the Pacers are maybe

3589
02:42:54,200 --> 02:42:56,360
just just that team that is like, ah, we kind

3590
02:42:56,360 --> 02:42:58,840
of oversold them. We should have seen this coming. They're

3591
02:42:58,879 --> 02:43:01,120
not quite that good. That that fits to me. The

3592
02:43:01,159 --> 02:43:04,000
second one here from Austin Also, the Lakers will finish

3593
02:43:04,040 --> 02:43:06,799
top four in the West with Ad making First Team

3594
02:43:06,840 --> 02:43:07,360
All NBA.

3595
02:43:07,840 --> 02:43:08,399
Speaker 1: I mean.

3596
02:43:09,680 --> 02:43:11,959
Speaker 2: There's not either there might be one or two guys

3597
02:43:11,959 --> 02:43:14,159
I'd take over eighty for m VP right now, And

3598
02:43:14,200 --> 02:43:16,360
we just spent a lot of time lauding the Lakers.

3599
02:43:16,920 --> 02:43:21,280
Top four is that's hard, But I definitely am on

3600
02:43:21,319 --> 02:43:24,159
board with Ad being a first teamer. I think you're

3601
02:43:24,200 --> 02:43:27,879
gonna need the Nuggets to stay struggling, maybe a couple

3602
02:43:27,920 --> 02:43:30,559
other issues to get them up into the top four though, right.

3603
02:43:31,239 --> 02:43:34,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I mean, but it's also kind of like, oh,

3604
02:43:34,840 --> 02:43:36,920
where the Warriors is gonna stay where they are. There's

3605
02:43:36,959 --> 02:43:38,920
a lot of like fluidity in the West, right.

3606
02:43:38,760 --> 02:43:40,639
Speaker 2: There is more than we would I mean, okay, see

3607
02:43:40,680 --> 02:43:43,920
Minnesota Dallas, you'd probably put ahead of the Lakers, but

3608
02:43:44,159 --> 02:43:48,159
like Minnesota has looked beatable on some nights, I mean haven't.

3609
02:43:47,920 --> 02:43:50,760
Speaker 1: Even peaked offensively yet. So I do this is a

3610
02:43:50,959 --> 02:43:52,959
This is a very good overreaction that both of these

3611
02:43:53,120 --> 02:43:56,319
Nice job Austin. Next one will be for me and

3612
02:43:56,399 --> 02:44:00,559
it comes from Pelicans, Adam. I'm really worried about that

3613
02:44:01,000 --> 02:44:02,760
the Pelicans are going to be bottom five and three

3614
02:44:02,799 --> 02:44:06,399
point attempts and defensive rebounding all year. I would say,

3615
02:44:06,760 --> 02:44:08,840
Adam One, thank you for your contribution. You are not

3616
02:44:08,879 --> 02:44:11,680
worried enough because this is just a fact. There's they're

3617
02:44:11,719 --> 02:44:13,680
gonna be bottom five and three point attempt thre eight

3618
02:44:13,959 --> 02:44:17,559
like that's just pencil that in. And defensive rebounding. You

3619
02:44:17,639 --> 02:44:20,399
let two of your more valuable rebounding bounders go for

3620
02:44:20,479 --> 02:44:24,479
nothing in Yanna talent Uness and Naji Marshall, and you're

3621
02:44:24,479 --> 02:44:27,799
injured to high hell right now. So where's the rebounding

3622
02:44:27,840 --> 02:44:30,120
coming from? Is it like Eve's mec is gonna come

3623
02:44:30,159 --> 02:44:31,799
in there? Is he gonna be like solve this? Zion

3624
02:44:32,159 --> 02:44:35,200
has never historically been that greater rebounder, So I think

3625
02:44:35,239 --> 02:44:38,520
you're appropriately concerned. I have larger concerns for this as

3626
02:44:38,559 --> 02:44:39,920
such as are they even just gonna figure it out

3627
02:44:39,959 --> 02:44:40,760
on offense in general?

3628
02:44:40,879 --> 02:44:44,719
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the problem is that the defensive rebounding

3629
02:44:44,799 --> 02:44:47,479
was foreseeable because they just like you said, they lost

3630
02:44:47,479 --> 02:44:49,319
guys that rebound and they were gonna play small like

3631
02:44:49,399 --> 02:44:52,600
the three point attempt thing. Just if you're gonna play

3632
02:44:52,639 --> 02:44:55,200
smaller more often in five out and have Zion drive

3633
02:44:55,239 --> 02:44:57,360
to kick and suck the defense and like there's no

3634
02:44:57,399 --> 02:44:59,719
excuse for the three point attempts being what they are.

3635
02:44:59,799 --> 02:45:01,879
Even if you're got, if you have guys that you

3636
02:45:01,920 --> 02:45:04,600
want shooting them hurt, like, that's just still still just

3637
02:45:04,639 --> 02:45:07,719
like a stylistic choice. You're just not prioritizing those shots.

3638
02:45:09,159 --> 02:45:10,799
Speaker 1: Next one is gonna be for you, mister Hughes.

3639
02:45:10,879 --> 02:45:13,280
Speaker 2: All right, this is from Thomas Lonzo. Ball will not

3640
02:45:13,319 --> 02:45:15,120
be traded and the Bulls will make it to the

3641
02:45:15,159 --> 02:45:19,799
second round of the playoffs. I mean the trading part.

3642
02:45:20,040 --> 02:45:22,159
So he's out with a wrist injury. It's grade one

3643
02:45:22,239 --> 02:45:25,719
or two ten days. I think was the problem. Disney,

3644
02:45:25,840 --> 02:45:29,360
We're good. I mean, like, is there anybody else that

3645
02:45:29,479 --> 02:45:32,319
just everyone's rooting for like this? Like isn't isn't this

3646
02:45:32,399 --> 02:45:36,000
kind of like well, besides, he has one hundred and

3647
02:45:36,079 --> 02:45:38,440
one percent approval rating. Ball is just at one hundred.

3648
02:45:38,319 --> 02:45:40,360
Speaker 1: Cody, who were some of the podcast fa We've got

3649
02:45:40,360 --> 02:45:42,200
bismock Biambo fans in the discord.

3650
02:45:42,559 --> 02:45:45,280
Speaker 2: A lot of bismack surprising, I would say, a surprising

3651
02:45:45,319 --> 02:45:47,079
amount of bismack Beyombo talk.

3652
02:45:47,040 --> 02:45:49,239
Speaker 1: Which is to say, from one which is a little

3653
02:45:49,239 --> 02:45:50,440
bit shout out b JP.

3654
02:45:50,840 --> 02:45:53,159
Speaker 2: Okay, let's take this one at a time. Will not

3655
02:45:53,239 --> 02:45:56,120
be traded that I'm in on because he expired.

3656
02:45:56,479 --> 02:45:56,959
Speaker 1: Trade him.

3657
02:45:57,000 --> 02:46:00,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's expiring, Like I don't know what doesn't have

3658
02:46:00,120 --> 02:46:02,520
a player option or no, this wasn't a player option year. Yeah,

3659
02:46:02,520 --> 02:46:04,079
I think he's I think this is the last year

3660
02:46:05,799 --> 02:46:10,280
make it to the second round. So unless you're prepared

3661
02:46:10,280 --> 02:46:12,120
to say that they are going to be a top

3662
02:46:12,200 --> 02:46:17,479
four seed, you need them to be one of I

3663
02:46:17,520 --> 02:46:22,959
mean Boston, like Boston, I think first like Boston. We'll

3664
02:46:22,959 --> 02:46:27,719
just say it was Philly, Milwaukee, Cleveland, whatever. Uh, that's

3665
02:46:27,760 --> 02:46:30,440
a tough one. I do hope that Lonzo Ball does

3666
02:46:30,479 --> 02:46:32,520
not get traded and is in fact the reason they

3667
02:46:32,520 --> 02:46:35,440
win a first round series. But that's that's a that's

3668
02:46:35,440 --> 02:46:36,680
a pretty solid overreaction.

3669
02:46:36,959 --> 02:46:38,799
Speaker 1: I will say, if they stay in the top ten

3670
02:46:38,840 --> 02:46:42,959
of defense, after going from Andre Drummond to Jalen Smith

3671
02:46:42,959 --> 02:46:45,159
in the center rotation, going from Alex Caruso to Josh

3672
02:46:45,239 --> 02:46:48,399
Giddy in the guard rotation, having Zach Lavine play more

3673
02:46:48,440 --> 02:46:50,920
minutes this year, I guess the rozen's not there. That'll

3674
02:46:50,920 --> 02:46:53,319
be well, that'll be a feat.

3675
02:46:53,360 --> 02:46:55,879
Speaker 2: There's witchcraft happening. If if that's how it ends up.

3676
02:46:55,879 --> 02:46:58,040
Speaker 1: Billy Donovan for coach of the Year. You heard you first,

3677
02:46:58,879 --> 02:47:00,879
we're getting into some Denver I had cut a lot

3678
02:47:00,879 --> 02:47:02,600
of Denver Nuggets. If we had Denver nugg we had

3679
02:47:02,639 --> 02:47:03,639
so many of them.

3680
02:47:03,799 --> 02:47:03,959
Speaker 2: Uh.

3681
02:47:04,079 --> 02:47:06,280
Speaker 1: Nicole J. Cole says, the Denver Nuggets will be in

3682
02:47:06,319 --> 02:47:08,079
the play in So this is this takes it a

3683
02:47:08,079 --> 02:47:10,959
step further than me talking about the Jokic scoring title grant.

3684
02:47:11,360 --> 02:47:14,000
The Nuggets are a playing team and by the way,

3685
02:47:14,200 --> 02:47:16,559
that just means that they're not top six in the West. Yeah,

3686
02:47:16,600 --> 02:47:20,760
let's go through it. We have I'm prepared to say that, okay,

3687
02:47:20,760 --> 02:47:22,360
See is better than Denver. Is that the hottest take

3688
02:47:22,360 --> 02:47:28,680
you've ever heard? Okay See, Phoenix and Minnesota feel like

3689
02:47:28,719 --> 02:47:31,760
the Locks and Dallas fell lots to be better than Denver.

3690
02:47:31,840 --> 02:47:37,319
At this point, that's four you seed Golden State, the Lakers.

3691
02:47:37,000 --> 02:47:40,399
Speaker 2: Name the Kings, Like the Kings could just be the

3692
02:47:40,440 --> 02:47:43,600
fifth seed? Why not? Like that's that's that's a Houston, Yeah,

3693
02:47:43,639 --> 02:47:49,920
there's I mean Memphis, right, Memphis. This is this is

3694
02:47:49,959 --> 02:47:52,879
not an overreaction. I think this is like this acknowledges

3695
02:47:52,920 --> 02:47:56,799
the downside here and like if Jokic gets hurt, they're

3696
02:47:56,920 --> 02:47:59,520
probably not even a playing team, right, Like they're just

3697
02:47:59,799 --> 02:48:03,159
the you. You're in the lottery and you don't get

3698
02:48:03,159 --> 02:48:03,440
this pick.

3699
02:48:03,479 --> 02:48:08,120
Speaker 1: Probably next up we have this is from philm. This

3700
02:48:08,280 --> 02:48:10,440
was I liked this one. This is for you too.

3701
02:48:10,840 --> 02:48:14,719
Speaker 2: Chet will be the reason SGA doesn't win MVP, so

3702
02:48:14,760 --> 02:48:23,280
they them, I mean, it makes sense. It's just like Ifga,

3703
02:48:23,440 --> 02:48:25,760
SGA like probably played about as well as he could

3704
02:48:25,840 --> 02:48:28,600
last year, didn't win it, and now the talent around

3705
02:48:28,680 --> 02:48:30,959
him is rising, and so the argument that it's not

3706
02:48:31,120 --> 02:48:34,440
just him gets easier to make. So like, and Chet

3707
02:48:34,600 --> 02:48:38,360
just has looked I mean, we we maybe didn't we

3708
02:48:38,399 --> 02:48:42,840
maybe should have transferred over fifteen to twenty five percent

3709
02:48:42,840 --> 02:48:45,840
of our Jada hype onto Chet. I feel like right

3710
02:48:45,959 --> 02:48:48,680
like he's been unbelievable. He's been better than Jadob so far.

3711
02:48:49,000 --> 02:48:51,639
Speaker 1: And this team hasn't started, by the way. Just okaysee Thunder,

3712
02:48:51,680 --> 02:48:54,239
they just haven't started hitting their threes yet. Oh by

3713
02:48:54,239 --> 02:48:55,440
the way, you know who you know who's actually the

3714
02:48:55,440 --> 02:48:58,159
one who's hitting their threes. Lou Dort as he's known

3715
02:48:58,200 --> 02:49:00,719
to do. It's lou Dort just continuing to make those threes.

3716
02:49:01,879 --> 02:49:04,600
Next one we have coming up from Okay, here you go,

3717
02:49:04,639 --> 02:49:08,840
settle a grant from are they good NBA. The Pacers, Kings,

3718
02:49:08,920 --> 02:49:12,239
and Bucks all underperform this year, missing the playoffs, while

3719
02:49:12,239 --> 02:49:15,639
the Warriors, Hornets, and Bulls make the playoffs. The Warriors

3720
02:49:15,639 --> 02:49:18,040
get to the second round, while the Hornets and Bulls

3721
02:49:18,040 --> 02:49:21,200
are first round exits. And yes, this gives the Bulls

3722
02:49:21,280 --> 02:49:24,440
front office just enough hope to probably not trade Levigne

3723
02:49:24,760 --> 02:49:27,440
or Vouch. That's again from are they good NBA? I'll

3724
02:49:27,440 --> 02:49:30,280
start here. I don't think there's a market for Vouch personally.

3725
02:49:30,360 --> 02:49:32,719
Maybe the Pelicans if they just wanted someone who could rebound.

3726
02:49:32,799 --> 02:49:33,280
Speaker 2: I don't.

3727
02:49:33,559 --> 02:49:37,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, But so let's break this. Let's start with the Pacers, Kings,

3728
02:49:37,760 --> 02:49:41,360
and Bucks. While all underperform. I think the spiciest version

3729
02:49:41,399 --> 02:49:41,840
of that is.

3730
02:49:41,760 --> 02:49:45,200
Speaker 2: The Kings, right, yeah, because they're the same, Well yeah,

3731
02:49:45,239 --> 02:49:47,840
because they're like the safest, right, They're the safest regular

3732
02:49:47,840 --> 02:49:48,680
season team in the group.

3733
02:49:48,719 --> 02:49:52,200
Speaker 1: Here, what would underperforming be for them? Just relative to the.

3734
02:49:52,600 --> 02:49:55,360
Speaker 2: I mean, missing the playoffs would be underperforming right because

3735
02:49:55,360 --> 02:49:57,079
he said missing the play Yes, all right, so I'm

3736
02:49:57,079 --> 02:49:57,920
missing the playoffs.

3737
02:49:58,000 --> 02:50:00,639
Speaker 1: What do you make of the Doves may making the playoffs?

3738
02:50:00,639 --> 02:50:02,239
I can get on board with the Hornet and the

3739
02:50:02,239 --> 02:50:05,239
Bulls making the playoffs. Is a different but that's yeah.

3740
02:50:05,399 --> 02:50:07,719
Speaker 2: I mean it's it's hard. But at the same time,

3741
02:50:07,799 --> 02:50:10,200
like we're just sitting here asking a lot of tough

3742
02:50:10,280 --> 02:50:12,680
questions about the Pacers and the Bucks and the Sixers

3743
02:50:12,680 --> 02:50:14,360
and the Heat and Jill go down the line like

3744
02:50:14,360 --> 02:50:17,000
I don't know, somebody's sneaking in. It seems like there's

3745
02:50:17,040 --> 02:50:21,399
gonna be some some unexpected openings there. H So are

3746
02:50:21,440 --> 02:50:23,239
are the Hornets and the Bulls the two teams to

3747
02:50:23,280 --> 02:50:27,120
fill those? I mean, if it's not gonna be Toronto, Brooklyn, Washington, Like,

3748
02:50:27,719 --> 02:50:29,239
I don't know, it's kind of like a process of

3749
02:50:29,280 --> 02:50:30,799
elimination argument here.

3750
02:50:31,440 --> 02:50:33,959
Speaker 1: I so, if you had to pick of the teams,

3751
02:50:34,000 --> 02:50:36,120
most likely it missed the playoffs from Pacers, Kings or Bucks.

3752
02:50:36,120 --> 02:50:40,200
Who are you going with? I'm probably he's concerned with

3753
02:50:40,280 --> 02:50:42,360
the Kings, but at the same time, they play in

3754
02:50:42,399 --> 02:50:44,879
the West, the right simmer.

3755
02:50:45,959 --> 02:50:48,520
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't want to. I know this is overreacting,

3756
02:50:48,559 --> 02:50:51,680
but we I kind of we can't say the Bucks.

3757
02:50:51,719 --> 02:50:53,879
The Bucks have the blow it up potential though, now,

3758
02:50:54,040 --> 02:50:58,040
like that's that's that's that's a factor. I I guess,

3759
02:50:58,399 --> 02:51:02,520
oh man, it's I guess it's the Pacers, But the

3760
02:51:02,559 --> 02:51:04,920
West being what it is. The Kings. I think the

3761
02:51:05,000 --> 02:51:07,559
Kings are again the safest team here, Like as far

3762
02:51:07,639 --> 02:51:10,000
as you've got to bet your life, they're gonna win

3763
02:51:10,040 --> 02:51:13,959
forty five games, Like I feel like that's still the Kings.

3764
02:51:14,520 --> 02:51:17,040
But that might just not be enough in the way

3765
02:51:17,120 --> 02:51:17,399
I think.

3766
02:51:17,719 --> 02:51:19,280
Speaker 1: I think what helps them is that they seem to

3767
02:51:19,319 --> 02:51:21,879
have the highest floor or a higher fluida where so

3768
02:51:21,920 --> 02:51:23,399
you know they'll be in the play in where it's

3769
02:51:23,440 --> 02:51:26,399
could you see the Pacers missing the playing all together

3770
02:51:26,719 --> 02:51:28,520
and like not even having a chance to get into

3771
02:51:28,559 --> 02:51:29,159
the playoffs?

3772
02:51:30,120 --> 02:51:32,280
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe, I mean they're all that's this is a

3773
02:51:32,319 --> 02:51:34,200
tough call. They're all like you can make the case

3774
02:51:34,200 --> 02:51:36,040
for all three of these teams here, which is not great,

3775
02:51:36,159 --> 02:51:36,680
like Thet's.

3776
02:51:36,479 --> 02:51:40,040
Speaker 1: Make the playoffs, Dubs Warriors or Hornets or Dubs Dubs

3777
02:51:40,040 --> 02:51:41,360
Hornets are bulls.

3778
02:51:41,559 --> 02:51:44,639
Speaker 2: Of making them, I mean the Warriors, like even in

3779
02:51:44,680 --> 02:51:48,639
the West, Okay, yeah, I mean Charlotte's tempting. I just

3780
02:51:48,639 --> 02:51:50,520
don't believe in the Bulls despite the start.

3781
02:51:50,840 --> 02:51:53,159
Speaker 1: I think the most likely part of this is that

3782
02:51:53,200 --> 02:51:56,399
both zach Lavine and Nikolovuvic don't get traded. Is probably

3783
02:51:56,399 --> 02:51:58,079
the most sat.

3784
02:51:58,120 --> 02:51:59,959
Speaker 2: RULs fans are like losing their minds right now.

3785
02:52:01,079 --> 02:52:02,600
Speaker 1: Oh here's this is a fun one.

3786
02:52:02,440 --> 02:52:04,360
Speaker 2: All right, I think, isn't me. I'll take it. The

3787
02:52:04,399 --> 02:52:08,959
Calves are firmly in championship contention. Good games only Yep.

3788
02:52:09,959 --> 02:52:11,360
Should we move on? Yeah?

3789
02:52:11,440 --> 02:52:15,760
Speaker 1: Talk, Yeah, I think we're done the Calves. Are we

3790
02:52:15,799 --> 02:52:18,639
over I think even we overthought the Calves with the downside,

3791
02:52:18,719 --> 02:52:20,760
Remember you and I got caught up. We're pretty good

3792
02:52:20,760 --> 02:52:22,879
at not being prisoners of the moment. But after the

3793
02:52:22,959 --> 02:52:25,680
Jared Awn hit piece then the playoffs, you're like, there's no.

3794
02:52:25,600 --> 02:52:28,280
Speaker 2: Way, no way. I was, to your credit, I was

3795
02:52:28,319 --> 02:52:31,000
worse than you about about like there's no chance they

3796
02:52:31,079 --> 02:52:32,879
go forward with this. I was wrong about the Don

3797
02:52:33,079 --> 02:52:33,600
Mitchell thing.

3798
02:52:34,040 --> 02:52:36,280
Speaker 1: We were about the first Jared Allen contract, that we

3799
02:52:36,319 --> 02:52:37,559
were wrong about him southing.

3800
02:52:37,799 --> 02:52:40,959
Speaker 2: We should probably, I'll just take it. I should not

3801
02:52:40,959 --> 02:52:43,079
be allowed to discuss the Calves anymore. I think I

3802
02:52:43,079 --> 02:52:46,000
think my hit rate is too low on Cleveland, which

3803
02:52:46,040 --> 02:52:47,680
is bad news because I think they're great now.

3804
02:52:47,959 --> 02:52:51,200
Speaker 1: So sorry, this is like me being high on the Grizzlies.

3805
02:52:51,239 --> 02:52:54,520
It's the kids of death. I think this. I think

3806
02:52:54,600 --> 02:52:56,200
this might be our final one right here. Yeah, this

3807
02:52:56,239 --> 02:52:59,319
one so jt Ix hitter John Collins will win sixth

3808
02:52:59,360 --> 02:53:00,440
Man of the Year.

3809
02:53:01,520 --> 02:53:03,479
Speaker 2: I mean John Collins had a great dunk the other

3810
02:53:03,559 --> 02:53:07,079
night I saw. That's the best thing I can say

3811
02:53:07,120 --> 02:53:07,479
so far.

3812
02:53:08,600 --> 02:53:10,239
Speaker 1: You know, what helps him is that he will not

3813
02:53:10,319 --> 02:53:13,040
be the one starting. It seems in Taylor Hendrix is absence,

3814
02:53:13,079 --> 02:53:15,280
so he he will continue to come off the bench.

3815
02:53:15,360 --> 02:53:18,600
But I mean he has had what would you say,

3816
02:53:18,639 --> 02:53:20,639
like two above average games.

3817
02:53:20,799 --> 02:53:23,920
Speaker 2: I mean then you you know, trying to help out here.

3818
02:53:24,600 --> 02:53:27,639
I would assume if and when he's traded, he will

3819
02:53:27,680 --> 02:53:31,319
not be a starter. So he's gonna preserving eligibility is key.

3820
02:53:31,559 --> 02:53:35,239
I think he's I think he's safe on that front. Man.

3821
02:53:35,239 --> 02:53:37,280
Speaker 1: When I started hitting threes again, he's had one good

3822
02:53:37,319 --> 02:53:38,319
three point shooting game.

3823
02:53:38,399 --> 02:53:41,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. What a precipitous fall for John Collins. Remember remember,

3824
02:53:41,840 --> 02:53:43,840
like you know, there was real It really felt like

3825
02:53:43,879 --> 02:53:46,040
there was something there in the early years with the Hawks.

3826
02:53:46,040 --> 02:53:48,360
But it's just I don't know what his future in

3827
02:53:48,360 --> 02:53:49,959
the league is as far as being part of a

3828
02:53:50,000 --> 02:53:50,680
winning team.

3829
02:53:51,079 --> 02:53:53,600
Speaker 1: Grant, we made it in under three hours. You're welcome

3830
02:53:53,680 --> 02:53:56,479
to our listeners. Are you ready to take us out

3831
02:53:56,479 --> 02:53:56,760
of here?

3832
02:53:56,959 --> 02:53:59,239
Speaker 2: Happy to every ready. Thanks for listening. Thanks for the

3833
02:53:59,239 --> 02:54:02,719
submissions actually on this one. Always good to get some

3834
02:54:03,559 --> 02:54:07,760
listener and viewer participation. Appreciate that if you haven't already, rate, review, subscribe,

3835
02:54:08,440 --> 02:54:12,120
thumbs up on YouTube, leieve comments on YouTube, join our discord.

3836
02:54:12,200 --> 02:54:14,639
That's how we got most of these submissions. I think

3837
02:54:14,879 --> 02:54:17,440
not too many Twitter submissions. Were they all discord?

3838
02:54:18,159 --> 02:54:21,239
Speaker 1: They were? No, we had to Twitter submissions all right,

3839
02:54:21,360 --> 02:54:24,120
to YouTube submissions or yeah with Twitter, sorry.

3840
02:54:24,000 --> 02:54:26,719
Speaker 2: Anyway, that's how you can participate. We always appreciate that.

3841
02:54:26,719 --> 02:54:29,360
It's good, good discussion discussions going on in there all

3842
02:54:29,360 --> 02:54:32,559
the time. Live game Campfires channel is always very helpful

3843
02:54:32,719 --> 02:54:34,319
if you want to catch up on what's going on

3844
02:54:34,360 --> 02:54:37,159
that night, you're coming to it late. Links for that

3845
02:54:37,200 --> 02:54:39,879
in YouTube and podcast description. How you can get involved there.

3846
02:54:40,719 --> 02:54:42,319
I think that's going to cover it. Tell your friends,

3847
02:54:42,360 --> 02:54:45,159
tell your enemies. Apologies, Jared Allen shouts Frank Milkina