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<v Speaker 1>Hi, It's Ryan Thomas. Please to welcome to the fifty

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<v Speaker 1>five Case Morning Show former House Minority Speaker Bill Sites,

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<v Speaker 1>who now apparently is going to be leading the panel

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<v Speaker 1>with former Congressman Pat Taberry to help maybe resolve the

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<v Speaker 1>property tax issue we have going on in the state

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<v Speaker 1>of Ohio. As my listeners are well aware, we just

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<v Speaker 1>did the budget in the state of Ohio contained three

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<v Speaker 1>provisions which I have been referring to as sort of

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<v Speaker 1>baby steps toward property tax reform to help lessen the

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<v Speaker 1>burden of the property tax that we're all facing. For

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<v Speaker 1>whatever reason, and I don't necessarily know why, maybe Bill

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<v Speaker 1>can address the question. Governor de Wine vetoed all three

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<v Speaker 1>of them, which brought the legislative branch back. They overrode

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<v Speaker 1>one of the three, but tabled the other because it

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<v Speaker 1>looked like they didn't have the votes to override the veto.

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<v Speaker 1>They may revote on that at some point, but in

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<v Speaker 1>the meantime, Governor to Wine formed the Property Tax Reform

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<v Speaker 1>Working Group, which Bill Sites is a member of. Bill.

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<v Speaker 1>Congratulations on the appointment.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess.

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<v Speaker 1>Let me start out by wondering a question that a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of folks have been asking, Is it really necessary.

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<v Speaker 1>My understanding is been working on property tax reform measures

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<v Speaker 1>and ideas, in formulating lists of them for well over

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<v Speaker 1>a year now, and that's where those three that were

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<v Speaker 1>incorporated in the budget came from. So do you know

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<v Speaker 1>why do wane veto them and why we need to

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<v Speaker 1>continue discussing this. Hasn't this work been done already?

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<v Speaker 2>Bill Sites Okay, let's start with the fact that, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>there has been work done by the legislative branch. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>they studied the issue. There were, however, no members of

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<v Speaker 2>local government on the Legislative Study Committee. The Legislative Study

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<v Speaker 2>Committee did come out with recommendations. There are twenty one recommendations,

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<v Speaker 2>many of which contain the kernels of good ideas, but

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<v Speaker 2>they said in their report I'm quoting some proposals may

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<v Speaker 2>contradict others end quote, and they made no effort to

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<v Speaker 2>prioritize among the twenty one recommendations which ones should be pursued.

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<v Speaker 2>So we view our job first as expanding upon those

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<v Speaker 2>twenty one recommendations, putting meat on the bones, and trying

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<v Speaker 2>to deliver as much property tax relief as we can

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<v Speaker 2>without breaking the bank of the state, and not putting

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<v Speaker 2>too much state money behind it. Why did the wind

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<v Speaker 2>detailed the three well number one. You probably have to

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<v Speaker 2>ask him, but to my understanding, the reason was that

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<v Speaker 2>he thought the measures were flawed in their language and

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<v Speaker 2>that they created too much uncertainty and fiscal stress on

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<v Speaker 2>units of local government. I'll give you, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll give you an example that they voted to eliminate.

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<v Speaker 2>They voted to prevent emergency levees and substitute levees from

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<v Speaker 2>being excluded from the twenty mil floor. Okay, that's fine,

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<v Speaker 2>but they want to apply that principle to existing levees.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think we have a problem with us because

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<v Speaker 2>it's tanked them out to changing the rules in the

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<v Speaker 2>middle of the game. If the levee is a five

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<v Speaker 2>year levee and it still has three years to run,

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<v Speaker 2>it should be allowed to run out and expire before

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<v Speaker 2>we go ahead and change the calculation of the twenty

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<v Speaker 2>mil floor. Another example, they voted to totally eliminate emergency levees,

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<v Speaker 2>replacement levees, and substitute levees. I'm for eliminating replacement levees,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm for eliminating substitute levees, but I'm really not for

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<v Speaker 2>eliminating emergency levees because the Property Taxpayer Coalition said, and

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<v Speaker 2>I quote it should be limited, that we should limit

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<v Speaker 2>the definition okay to a true emergency and run limited

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<v Speaker 2>to a certain period of time. I agree with that.

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<v Speaker 2>There could be true emergencies. For example, what if the

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<v Speaker 2>Kerk County floods happened in Ohio? For example? What about

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<v Speaker 2>some natural disaster? For example, what if the levee did

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<v Speaker 2>not pass, the district would be thrown into fiftial emergency

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<v Speaker 2>and subject to state takeover. So I think we can

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<v Speaker 2>do what they wanted, but make a slight change to

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<v Speaker 2>that language. I do. Our job is building upon what

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<v Speaker 2>the legislature has done. We are not trying to undo it.

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<v Speaker 2>We're trying to refine it. Now.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess one of the concerns has got to be

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<v Speaker 1>looming large. Is this repeal all property tax constitutional amendment

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<v Speaker 1>that's they're circulating right now, trying to get it on

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<v Speaker 1>the ballot. Does this work that you are working on,

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<v Speaker 1>and do you anticipate the work getting completed and giving

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<v Speaker 1>us some property tax relief through any whatever measures are

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<v Speaker 1>presented in advance of that, Because that's looming large, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's possible that the voters in Ohio, if nothing's done,

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<v Speaker 1>might very well vote for that. And then you talk

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<v Speaker 1>about chaos. I'm not quite even sure how that would be,

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<v Speaker 1>how it would work in the aftermath.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's an excellent point. The governor has given us

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<v Speaker 2>a headline of September thirtieth to come up with our

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<v Speaker 2>enhanced recommendations. That's a very tight timeframe. So we are

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<v Speaker 2>working very diligently to meet that objective. That's number one.

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<v Speaker 2>The reason why he picked September thirtieth is the legislature

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<v Speaker 2>is coming back into session in early October, and so

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<v Speaker 2>if they care to take up our recommendations, there would

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<v Speaker 2>be plenty of time to do it. The repeal of

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<v Speaker 2>the property tax initiative would not be on the ballot

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<v Speaker 2>until November twenty twenty six at the earliest, and you're right,

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<v Speaker 2>it would cause absolute chaos because the rough property taxes

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<v Speaker 2>in Ohio. I'm out up to twenty three b with

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<v Speaker 2>a billion dollars, all of which goes to local services.

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<v Speaker 2>None of that money goes to the state. It is

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<v Speaker 2>for local police and fire and parks, and senior citizens services,

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<v Speaker 2>and mental health services and developmental disability and schools. Eliminating

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<v Speaker 2>twenty three billion dollars would obviously do great damage to

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<v Speaker 2>all of those local services on which people depend, and

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<v Speaker 2>it would create another problem, what do you replace that revenue? Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>you would need it if we've done great work Brian

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<v Speaker 2>and cutting the income tax I was there twenty four years.

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<v Speaker 2>We took the income tax brackets in Ohio that used

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<v Speaker 2>to be nine brackets and a match tax rate of

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<v Speaker 2>over eight percent. During my tenure, we took it down

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<v Speaker 2>to two brackets, three point five percent and two point

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<v Speaker 2>seven five percent, And so we made tremendous strides there,

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<v Speaker 2>and the legislature just took another great stride forward and

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<v Speaker 2>cutting it to a flat tax of two point seven

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<v Speaker 2>five percent. I don't see the legislature being at all

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<v Speaker 2>interested in raising income taxes again when we were so

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<v Speaker 2>close to having achieved that goal.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, and what a practice. Well, we're quite of the

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<v Speaker 1>problems with income taxes. Only property or income tax only

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<v Speaker 1>people who work are paying them, and property taxes only

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<v Speaker 1>people who own property are are are paying them. But

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<v Speaker 1>yet you have a whole host of people who are

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<v Speaker 1>enjoying the benefits of all these services that are funded

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<v Speaker 1>by property taxes. That aren't paying them. How about I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I've heard this issuon. I've even thrown it out increasing

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<v Speaker 1>the sales tax a little bit. So literally, everyone who

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<v Speaker 1>buys anything in the state of Ohio is participating and

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<v Speaker 1>paying for government services. The problem that that presents for

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<v Speaker 1>me is that's a giant pile of money that ends

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<v Speaker 1>up in Columbus that will be responsible for choosing and

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<v Speaker 1>picking how much money goes to any given entity.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's a very good observation. And let me just

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<v Speaker 2>say this. You would need a statewide sales tax rate.

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<v Speaker 2>It's something approaching twenty percent if you were to replace

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<v Speaker 2>that twenty three billion dollars with an increased sales tax.

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<v Speaker 2>And for those of us who live here in Hamilton

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<v Speaker 2>County on the border to Kentucky, on the border to Indiana,

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<v Speaker 2>people would vote with their feet and buy their goods

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<v Speaker 2>and services in Kentucky. They would not pay twenty percent

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<v Speaker 2>in Ohio. In general, I agree with you consumption taxes

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<v Speaker 2>are preferable to income and property taxes. But frankly, I

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<v Speaker 2>always thought the income tax was the principle evil to

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<v Speaker 2>be avoided because we've had property taxes in Ohio since

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<v Speaker 2>the eighteen thirties. The income tax didn't arise until Governor

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<v Speaker 2>Gilligan brought it to us in the early seventies. And

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we've viewed that as the principal target. Now

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<v Speaker 2>there's a lot we can do, a lot we can recommend.

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<v Speaker 2>For example, why don't we let folks who are senior

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<v Speaker 2>citizens and disabled homeowners, why don't we give them some

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<v Speaker 2>tax relief, either in the form of an enhanced homestead

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<v Speaker 2>exemption or in the form of some sort of a

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<v Speaker 2>deal where you pay up to x percent of their

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<v Speaker 2>income and anything on top of that the state will

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<v Speaker 2>pick up, perhaps with the obligation on the part of

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<v Speaker 2>the homeowner that when they die or move out of

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<v Speaker 2>the house, they have to pay it back. So that

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<v Speaker 2>would be kind of a no cost option to the

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<v Speaker 2>state while providing relief to the homeowner during the homeowner's

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<v Speaker 2>occupancy of that house. There's an idea for you. How

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<v Speaker 2>about letting people instead of paying their taxes in big

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<v Speaker 2>chunks twice a year January in June, how about saying

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to give you a monthly payment plan. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>there might have to be some interest factor applied to that,

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<v Speaker 2>because you're not getting all the money up front. But

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<v Speaker 2>I think one of the reasons people hate property taxes

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<v Speaker 2>is you get this job smackingly large bill twice a year.

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<v Speaker 2>If it was spread out into more manageable payments, you

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<v Speaker 2>would probably have fewer delinquencies and less outrage over property taxes.

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<v Speaker 2>So there's a whole lot of great ideas like that.

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<v Speaker 2>And our group contains school superintendents, county commissioners, county auditors,

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<v Speaker 2>county treasure mayors, business people like Congressman te Berry, and

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<v Speaker 2>me as a former legislator and taxpayer and property owner

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<v Speaker 2>for twenty four years in the state legislature. So we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to do our best to build on what the

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<v Speaker 2>legislature has done, to suggest refinement of some of what

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<v Speaker 2>they have done, and to agree with them that more

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<v Speaker 2>needs to be done. We totally agree with that. There's

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<v Speaker 2>a great bill that's pending up there called House Bill

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<v Speaker 2>one eighty six. I heard one of the leaders in

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<v Speaker 2>the House say that bill has to pass. I completely

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<v Speaker 2>agree that bill has to pass. So there's not as

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<v Speaker 2>much division between the legislature and at least me as

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<v Speaker 2>might be perceived, I agree with much of what they

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<v Speaker 2>want to do.

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<v Speaker 1>So fair enough, bill sides. Appreciate your insight on this.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll very much look forward with bated breath the reforms

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<v Speaker 1>that you recommend and how quickly the legislative branch acts

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<v Speaker 1>on them. Of course, you know it, I know it.

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<v Speaker 1>Everybody in Ohio knows that our property tax bills just

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<v Speaker 1>keep going up and up and up, and we're all

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<v Speaker 1>demanding some form of relief. I wish you all the

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<v Speaker 1>best in the world getting that relief to the property

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<v Speaker 1>taxpayer bill.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks, Brian, appreciate it. It'll be a large task, but

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<v Speaker 2>we're willing to try to get that done.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm certain you are. Bill. Look forward to talking with

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<v Speaker 1>you again when you get something out on paper.