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We're prohibited by laws, 46 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:02.959 terms and conditions the black see website for details. 47 00:02:03.239 --> 00:02:15.800 Maybe you are now listening to True Murder The most 48 00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:19.199 shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that 49 00:02:19.240 --> 00:02:25.479 have written about them. Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK 50 00:02:26.360 --> 00:02:30.199 Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 51 00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:34.400 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 52 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:37.879 your host, journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 53 00:02:48.199 --> 00:02:51.680 Good evening. On a cold winter's night in early nineteen 54 00:02:51.800 --> 00:02:56.199 sixty three, mob enforcer Rocco Anthony Ballero and a pair 55 00:02:56.240 --> 00:02:59.400 of associates stormed a darkened apartment on the outskirts of 56 00:02:59.439 --> 00:03:03.080 Boston and engaged in a fierce gun battle with several assailants. 57 00:03:03.199 --> 00:03:06.240 Police officers had turned out waiting in ambush for the 58 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:10.120 ex convict in recent prison escapee. In the aftermath, a 59 00:03:10.159 --> 00:03:13.240 young woman and her toddler's son lay dead. The story 60 00:03:13.240 --> 00:03:16.759 of Rocco Berlero, a petty criminal enforcer for New England 61 00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:21.080 crime boss Raymond Patriarca, played out in glaring headlines across 62 00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:24.599 the country. Following the shootout with the Boston police, had 63 00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:26.759 he heeded the commands of the cops to drop his 64 00:03:26.800 --> 00:03:29.680 weapon Rocco would not have spent the next fifty years 65 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:32.759 behind bars, and his girlfriend and her son might still 66 00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:36.400 be alive today. Instead, he fired the gun, erupting death 67 00:03:36.439 --> 00:03:39.319 and mayhem in the apartment. In the aftermath of the shootings, 68 00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:42.520 all fingers pointed at Rocco, but he would maintain his 69 00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:44.520 innocence in the death of his girlfriend and her son 70 00:03:44.599 --> 00:03:48.080 for the rest of his life, though plague with lingering questions. 71 00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:50.719 Did he fire the deadly bullets or did they come 72 00:03:50.800 --> 00:03:54.039 from another source? Did he unlowingly kill the pair? Or 73 00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:57.000 was he simply guilty of an ill advised home invasion? 74 00:03:57.879 --> 00:04:01.719 What was the police's true involvement? Balero agreed to meet 75 00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:03.800 with the author. Over the span of a couple of years. 76 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:07.680 Along with countless tales of criminal escapades, Balero handed over 77 00:04:08.199 --> 00:04:11.879 raims of documents, correspondence, and clippings related to his life 78 00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:14.879 and the alleged crime that put him behind bars, while 79 00:04:14.919 --> 00:04:17.839 Balero arranged for meetings with many of his family members 80 00:04:17.879 --> 00:04:21.560 and associates. This is Rocco's own story of his life, 81 00:04:21.639 --> 00:04:25.120 but more importantly, it is his version of the events 82 00:04:25.160 --> 00:04:27.600 from the night of February second, nineteen sixty three. In 83 00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:32.720 a Boston suburb and his profession of innocence and until 84 00:04:32.759 --> 00:04:35.639 his dying breath. The book they were featuring this evening 85 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:38.639 is Shots in the Dark, The Saga of Rocco Balero, 86 00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:43.040 with my special guest author Zimmerman. Welcome to the program, 87 00:04:43.079 --> 00:04:45.879 and thank you very much for agreeing to this program, 88 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:46.800 Daniel Zimmern. 89 00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:52.079 Well, thank you for having me. Dan much appreciated. I 90 00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:54.759 spent quite a bit of time putting together this story, 91 00:04:54.759 --> 00:04:58.759 writing the story about Rocco Blero, and now I much 92 00:04:58.759 --> 00:05:02.439 appreciate any opportunity I can have such as this to 93 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:06.240 share that story with others. 94 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:08.759 Tell us how you came to be in a position 95 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:12.120 or why this was important to you. Tell us a 96 00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:16.240 little bit about your journalism background as a stringer for 97 00:05:16.279 --> 00:05:19.680 many years, and tell us a little bit about how 98 00:05:19.720 --> 00:05:22.120 you came to be in a position to be able 99 00:05:22.199 --> 00:05:23.959 to want for the. 100 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:27.399 Last For the last two decades nineteen years, to be exact, 101 00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:32.800 I've been a stringer for an assortment of newspapers, mostly weekly, 102 00:05:32.920 --> 00:05:39.759 some dailies, and mostly in a sports capacity. And that's 103 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:43.079 really where I cut my teeth with writing. I'm not 104 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:46.879 a formal journalist. I did not go to college for 105 00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:51.360 this I'm self taught, and a lot of people find 106 00:05:51.360 --> 00:05:53.480 it had to believe that as they read some of 107 00:05:53.759 --> 00:05:59.240 my material. But again, through those years, I as I 108 00:05:59.319 --> 00:06:02.079 learned the trade, so to speak, I decided I wanted 109 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:04.639 to write a story. And I had this story about 110 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:10.680 Rocco Blero since very early years, very early age, because 111 00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:13.920 I grew up with it. The victims, the two victims, 112 00:06:14.920 --> 00:06:18.680 Toby Wagner and Mock Wagner, were my aunt and my cousin, 113 00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:22.600 and I grew up through the sixties and seventies fully 114 00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:24.920 aware of the story. My family shared it with me. 115 00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:27.439 But what they shared with me was a story of 116 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:33.720 Rocco Balero, cold blooded killer, cold blooded murderer. And that's 117 00:06:33.720 --> 00:06:36.480 what That's what I believed, because that's what I was told. 118 00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:41.680 So when I decided to write this book, I went 119 00:06:41.720 --> 00:06:45.839 into the prison for the first visit with Rocco, and 120 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:48.360 it didn't take very long for him to convince me 121 00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:52.120 that I was wrong, and so were my family members, 122 00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:55.279 that in fact, he hadn't killed my aunt and my cousin. 123 00:06:56.160 --> 00:07:02.399 They were killed by police bullets. Allegedly, Rocco was actually 124 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:06.360 in love with my aunt. He wanted to make a 125 00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:10.680 family with her and her two children, Mark and Bernice. 126 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:15.560 It was just one of those situations where he he 127 00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:18.959 was living with her. Uh. They had fallen in love 128 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:22.600 over a span of seven months after they met. Her 129 00:07:22.680 --> 00:07:25.680 husband was in jail, she was married, her husband was 130 00:07:25.720 --> 00:07:31.959 in jail, and true, probably not the best set of circumstances. Uh, 131 00:07:32.040 --> 00:07:36.000 her seeing Rocco while her husband's locked away, and that 132 00:07:36.079 --> 00:07:39.160 came to light when her husband was due to be 133 00:07:39.279 --> 00:07:45.319 released on February first, nineteen sixty three. You know, obviously 134 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:48.839 bad things were gonna happen as a result of that 135 00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:54.160 release from jail. But again I grew up with the 136 00:07:54.199 --> 00:07:58.560 story and I went into the prison. My first visit 137 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:00.600 was Roco. After reaching out to him be a letter, 138 00:08:01.959 --> 00:08:04.560 he couldn't get me in there fast enough. He actually 139 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:08.800 reached out to one of his relatives as sister and 140 00:08:08.920 --> 00:08:12.480 asked her to track me down so that he could 141 00:08:12.759 --> 00:08:15.040 he could arrange for that first that first meeting, that 142 00:08:15.079 --> 00:08:18.160 first visit to the prison, and once I was there, 143 00:08:19.759 --> 00:08:23.279 very interesting. I went through the processing, I walked into 144 00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:25.920 the visiting area, I sat down and waited. Obviously I 145 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:29.160 knew what Ruckabullero looked like. I had photos I had, 146 00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:31.879 you know, seen photos throughout the years. He didn't know 147 00:08:31.959 --> 00:08:35.480 me or what I looked like, obviously, But when he 148 00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:39.559 came through the entryway and checked in, he's looking around 149 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:42.240 the room and I stood up and kind of raised 150 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:45.279 a hand, and he came over, and I expected I 151 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:49.240 reached out to shake his hand, and he actually put 152 00:08:49.279 --> 00:08:52.120 his arms around me and embraced me, and then stepped 153 00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:54.279 back and he said, I can't believe it, standing in 154 00:08:54.279 --> 00:08:59.080 front of me, Toby's DNA. And it kind of struck 155 00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:02.720 me that fifty years later, fifty years after her death, 156 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:06.399 this man I could sense that there was something not 157 00:09:06.519 --> 00:09:08.679 right about the story I've been told. I could sense 158 00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:13.879 that he truly loved my aunt Toby. And over the 159 00:09:13.879 --> 00:09:16.679 course of the next three weeks, three or four weeks, 160 00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:22.519 between communications with Rocco, between twice weekly visits and him 161 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:27.240 providing a documentation, as I said in my intro or 162 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:36.039 correspondence Affi David's testimony, Major Major Documents, that it was 163 00:09:36.159 --> 00:09:38.879 just a stack of material. Every day I'd get something 164 00:09:38.919 --> 00:09:41.039 in the mail from him, and I'd go through it, 165 00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:44.960 and then I'd take the time, obviously as a researcher 166 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:51.240 of researching into this crime, I would corroborate a lot 167 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:53.799 of the material that he gave me. I'd reach out 168 00:09:53.799 --> 00:09:56.399 to attorneys, I'd reach out to police officers, I'd gather 169 00:09:57.480 --> 00:10:00.559 other materials to ensure that what he was giving me 170 00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:04.200 was accurate. And one hundred percent of the time, anything 171 00:10:04.440 --> 00:10:07.960 that he told me, or gave me, or provided towards 172 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:13.159 my research, it was accurate. I seldom found anything, and 173 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:15.840 if anything was not accurate, it was only because of 174 00:10:15.879 --> 00:10:18.080 the passage of time. So many years had gone by 175 00:10:18.200 --> 00:10:22.879 that even the best memories stayed somewhat and I came 176 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:26.679 to understand in a very short period of time that 177 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:29.559 I had it all wrong. I wasn't about to write 178 00:10:29.559 --> 00:10:32.919 a book about a cold blooded murder Rocco Balro. I 179 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:35.080 was about to write a book about an innocent man 180 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:38.440 who was sent to prison for a crime he did 181 00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:38.879 not commit. 182 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:44.919 As you'd write in the book, tell us how Rocco 183 00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:47.600 Ballero meets Toby. 184 00:10:49.480 --> 00:10:51.759 Toby was a young woman. She was only twenty one 185 00:10:51.799 --> 00:10:55.039 at the time. Again, as I mentioned her, her husband 186 00:10:55.080 --> 00:10:58.080 was in prison, she had two young children, and she 187 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:00.559 she just she liked this. She liked be out. She 188 00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:02.480 liked to go out and see friends. She liked to 189 00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:07.519 kind of hang out at lounges and socialize, and she 190 00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:13.039 was lonely, so one night in July of nineteen sixty two, 191 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:16.600 she arranged for a babysitter and went to a place 192 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:20.919 in Boston. It was called the Combat Zone. Locals around 193 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:23.799 here would know exactly what that is, but it's a 194 00:11:23.879 --> 00:11:27.200 red it's the Red Lake District, and it's loaded with 195 00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:37.120 assorted peep shows, bookstores, but also many many lounges kind 196 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:40.200 of dotted the landscape in the combat Zone, and most 197 00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:45.399 of them were run by mob figures, they were owned 198 00:11:45.399 --> 00:11:48.840 by most most of them are owned by the underworld, 199 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:53.960 and she she frequented one called the New Yorker, where 200 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:56.600 in the in the basement, the downstairs area, as Roco 201 00:11:56.720 --> 00:11:59.600 described it, it was kind of the movers and movers 202 00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:02.240 and shaker of the underworld. A lot of a lot 203 00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:05.360 of mob figures would would kind of apply their trade there. 204 00:12:05.799 --> 00:12:08.840 And she met Rocco there. She was with another out 205 00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:13.519 with another gentleman, but Rocco kind of worked his way 206 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:18.799 into her graces, and before long they were sharing, sharing 207 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:21.799 stories and drinks, and they they fell for each other, 208 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:26.080 uh so quickly, in fact, that Rocco literally moved in 209 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:30.159 with her into her apartment and they they basically were 210 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:32.919 I guess you could call a family against you had 211 00:12:32.919 --> 00:12:35.639 two young children, a two year old boy and a 212 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:40.519 six month old girl, and Rocco Rocco made them his family. 213 00:12:40.600 --> 00:12:44.480 He treated them as his family. He'd fill the refrigerator 214 00:12:44.519 --> 00:12:48.360 with groceries. He he'd buy her new things. She was 215 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:51.399 kind of a little bit downtrodden financially because of her 216 00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:55.399 her husband being locked away, so she struggled to get 217 00:12:55.399 --> 00:12:58.279 by and and Rocco would help her with that in 218 00:12:58.279 --> 00:13:01.679 that respect, he would buy her things and and UH 219 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:06.039 and it was a it was a good situation for him. Unfortunately, 220 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:10.960 Rocco also was a was a c was a criminal. 221 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:13.159 I mean honestly, UH. He would admit. He would admit 222 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:16.279 that every every time he talked his career. His work 223 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:23.519 was to UH burgalarize UH local businesses, jewelry stores, anything 224 00:13:23.559 --> 00:13:25.799 that UH that he could that he could fence off 225 00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:28.960 to to more or less make a living. And that 226 00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:32.000 was all as UH. As part of the organization, he 227 00:13:32.039 --> 00:13:37.440 was an enforcer UH for the UH patriarchic family. His 228 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:44.159 family was one level of U tiers of mafia involvement. 229 00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:47.200 In the in the Boston area, they uh the Ballero 230 00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:51.159 family worked directly for the Andulo family, and then turn 231 00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:53.799 the Angulo family work for the patriarchate family. So it 232 00:13:53.879 --> 00:13:58.000 was uh several levels away. But Rocco was still officially 233 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:02.360 a uh uh. He could use the title mob enforcer, 234 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:07.840 and he again committed crimes to to supplement his income. 235 00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:13.840 How was it that? Explain how it wasn't in this 236 00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:18.000 situation that they were in a they were mobsters, but 237 00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:22.399 he was able to go out with this person's girlfriend 238 00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:26.519 while he was in prison. Tell us how the brothers 239 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:29.519 reacted to this, his own brothers reacted to this, and 240 00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:32.720 how you explained in the book how this is possible 241 00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:36.279 even though people might think this weren't possible in the 242 00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:38.320 confines of the mafia. 243 00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:42.279 Well, at the time, Boston's got a very sordid history 244 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:49.799 of mob activities, and at the time the Italian Mob ruled, 245 00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:55.720 They ruled the city. The Angela family was very powerful. 246 00:14:56.399 --> 00:14:59.840 They you didn't you didn't sneeze in the organization without 247 00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:07.919 the permission. Her husband, Barney Wagner, was a distant, distant 248 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:15.679 member of the Irish faction, the Irish Mob, who at 249 00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:19.200 the time didn't have much much power, much sway in 250 00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:25.799 the city, and Rocco basically he was you know, he 251 00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:27.919 felt that he could do pretty much anything he wanted, 252 00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:30.440 and his brothers really didn't stand in his way. They 253 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:33.759 would they would give him advice, but he was twenty 254 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:36.000 sixth at the time, and he'd uh, he'd already been 255 00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:38.879 in prison a couple of times for different crimes, and 256 00:15:38.919 --> 00:15:41.679 they felt that, you know, he had the right and 257 00:15:41.720 --> 00:15:43.759 the maturity to make his own decisions about what he 258 00:15:43.759 --> 00:15:47.120 would do. And there really is nobody to stand in 259 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:51.559 his way as far as getting into a relationship with 260 00:15:51.559 --> 00:15:55.440 with Toby, and that he did, and that persisted for 261 00:15:55.480 --> 00:16:01.879 about seven months until the till February of sixty three. 262 00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:05.279 Of the stories in the book, I'm sorry, sure, yah. 263 00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:06.759 That's why I was going to get to some of 264 00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:09.440 the some of the fascinating stories that you have here 265 00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:13.759 that really demonstrate that he's I guess, much different than 266 00:16:13.960 --> 00:16:17.440 anybody we've read before. Tell us a couple of stories 267 00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:20.720 that you include that illustrate sort of his unique character. 268 00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:24.919 Well, one of the things that was during the editing 269 00:16:24.919 --> 00:16:27.919 phase of this book, one of my editors I had 270 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:31.600 used a description of Rocco as a having a heart 271 00:16:31.639 --> 00:16:34.200 of gold. And she reached back to me and kind 272 00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:37.320 of questioned that that terminology, that description of Rocco, that 273 00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:41.759 how could a criminal of this nature have a heart 274 00:16:41.799 --> 00:16:47.120 of gold? And I explained to her that other than 275 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:52.639 first responders and maybe a physician in an emergency room, 276 00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:54.759 there are very few people that walk this planet that 277 00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:58.759 can claim to have saved three lives, and Rocco was 278 00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:02.240 one who could. During the course of his life, he 279 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:05.559 saved three people, and there are families there that exist 280 00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:11.960 today because of his actions. For instance, he during during 281 00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:14.599 one of his stays in prison, there was an uprising, 282 00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:17.000 a riot and m m c. I. Wallpole, it's one 283 00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:20.319 of the most notorious prisons in on the East Coast, 284 00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:24.480 and there was a riot in nineteen sixty seven where 285 00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:27.440 Rocco risked his own life to step in front of 286 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:32.200 a guard and hold off some of the rampaging inmates 287 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:35.119 who wanted a piece of that guard, and that guard 288 00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:37.440 managed to survive. He got he got away as a 289 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:42.599 result of Rocco's delaying, delaying the the attack. And later 290 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:45.200 on in his life when he was on he had 291 00:17:45.319 --> 00:17:47.440 he had made one of his several escapes. As you 292 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:51.880 as you read, he was pretty good at escaping from prisons. 293 00:17:52.599 --> 00:17:55.440 Several times he he managed to find his way out. 294 00:17:55.480 --> 00:17:59.319 But during one of his escapes, he was living in 295 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:03.119 San Francisco with a former associate and they were at 296 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:06.680 the uh San Francisco Pier was on July fourth, nineteen 297 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:10.799 eighty and the associate had a two year old daughter 298 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:13.519 who they lost track of her for a few seconds. 299 00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:17.319 She stumbled and fell into the San Francisco Bay and 300 00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:21.319 most people just froze. According to the description in the newspaper, 301 00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:26.480 people froze. No nobody reacted except for Rocco. He didn't hesitate. 302 00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:29.039 He dove into the water, he fished her out, he 303 00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:32.440 rescued her. And you know, it was just one of 304 00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:35.799 those things where yes he was a criminal. Yes he 305 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:38.759 robbed stores, Yes he broke into businesses in the in 306 00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:42.559 the dark of night. But he also, as I described, 307 00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:44.839 had a heart of gold. He would he would risk 308 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:47.200 his own life to save others. 309 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:53.440 Right, you you include some of these the these hijinks 310 00:18:53.440 --> 00:18:57.559 where you have incredible access and you take us right 311 00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:03.079 into the vehicles as they're escaping from these robberies. Tell 312 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:05.799 us a little bit about the fur coat robbery because 313 00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:08.319 it's an important story. 314 00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:12.279 Yes, it was an important robbery. Him and his partner 315 00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:16.599 Gianni Seroni went to a first store in the town 316 00:19:16.759 --> 00:19:21.000 just outside of Boston Colprook line, and they robbed the 317 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:24.559 store of pretty much all their fur coats. In nineteen 318 00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:29.319 sixty two dollars, it was seventy five thousand, but nowadays 319 00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:31.960 that would be quite quite a bit more. And the 320 00:19:31.960 --> 00:19:35.160 purpose of that was to give them his gifts to 321 00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:38.680 some of his some of the mob associates, some of 322 00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:43.559 the higher ups in the organization, as well as fencing 323 00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:48.839 some of them for income. So they robbed the store, 324 00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:52.200 and then they got a hold of a panel truck 325 00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:54.960 and set it all up and hung the coats there, 326 00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:57.160 so that it was actually a store on wheels, as 327 00:19:57.160 --> 00:19:59.680 he described it, where people would come and look at 328 00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:02.119 the coat, and they take one for their wives and girlfriends, 329 00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:04.720 and and then then came the time to uh to 330 00:20:04.759 --> 00:20:07.599 transport them to Providence to hand them off to the 331 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:11.559 patriarchate family. And that night turned turned out to be 332 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:16.720 very pivotal in Rocco's life. During the the transportation phase, 333 00:20:16.759 --> 00:20:20.720 they were pulled over by a police cruiser with a 334 00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:23.079 number of officers in the in the in the cruiser, 335 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:29.079 and they were subsequently UH subsequently arrested, and Rocco soon 336 00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:32.079 landed in a uh in jail, the UH the best 337 00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:35.119 house of corrections, and he knew with his with his 338 00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:38.240 history he had, he had been released from prison for 339 00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:41.720 other crimes not too in the not too distant pass, 340 00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:44.960 and he understood that he was facing a long stretch 341 00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:50.039 as a result. So like like Rocco ballero Is, he 342 00:20:50.119 --> 00:20:54.480 decided he wanted to escape and he enlisted. He enlisted 343 00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:59.400 my aunt Toby UH to assist him in that. He 344 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:02.519 he figured out at this prison was in excess of 345 00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:05.400 one hundred years years old. The UH cast iron bars 346 00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:10.960 that fronted the cells were very porous, very UH basically 347 00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:13.000 easy to cut if he could get his hands on 348 00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:16.400 a cutting tool. And that's exactly where Toby came in. 349 00:21:16.519 --> 00:21:21.240 She ended up smuggling in hacks all blades and getting 350 00:21:21.319 --> 00:21:24.480 them to to Rocco. Prisons were different in those days. 351 00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:29.000 They didn't have metal detectors, the guards, the the officers 352 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:33.880 were less apt to pat down a woman. It was 353 00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:36.799 just a whole different time. And she managed to get 354 00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:40.000 the hacksaw blades and it took Rocco forty days to 355 00:21:40.039 --> 00:21:42.880 cut through these bars, but he managed to do so 356 00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:47.319 and escape. He went out a window and managed to 357 00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:51.480 get back to Boston and his family and Toby. They 358 00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:56.480 they got together soon after the escape. He he was 359 00:21:56.480 --> 00:21:58.599 pretty adept at using an axe all blade, let me 360 00:21:58.640 --> 00:22:01.880 just put it that way. He did it a couple 361 00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:03.920 of times in a very short span of time. 362 00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:07.960 Tell us a little bit more about your aunt, Toby 363 00:22:08.119 --> 00:22:13.200 and Mark and the daughter named Bernice, but oddly they 364 00:22:13.240 --> 00:22:15.599 called her Wendy. Tell us a little bit more about 365 00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:17.640 their life that they had even though he was on 366 00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:22.519 the run. Tell us the state of affairs with this 367 00:22:22.599 --> 00:22:24.519 couple and the children. 368 00:22:25.480 --> 00:22:29.519 Well, we're Toby. I was two at the time. My 369 00:22:29.720 --> 00:22:35.279 mother and Toby were schoolmates. They both went to Brookline 370 00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:37.960 High School, and that's how they got to know each other, 371 00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:44.079 and that's how my mother eventually met my father through Toby. 372 00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:49.519 They lived kind of a tough existence. Toby was into 373 00:22:49.559 --> 00:22:53.519 some things that she probably shouldn't have been. Her husband, Barney, 374 00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:56.720 wasn't the best character. They kind of ran with a 375 00:22:56.759 --> 00:23:00.400 gang of people who just were on the lived on 376 00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:03.440 the wrong side of the fence, so to speak, and 377 00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:08.559 they eventually got married, had had the two kids. Toby 378 00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:14.160 absolutely adored Mark. My mother would describe it. I believe 379 00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:16.640 I used it in the book that he was attached 380 00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:20.759 to her hip. Wherever she was, Mark was. But for 381 00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:28.839 some reason, Bernice wasn't quite the love child that that 382 00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:33.880 Mark was. And oddly enough, after as I was doing 383 00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:37.680 my research, I didn't have to talk to Bernice. It 384 00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:40.160 wasn't necessary because she was a six month old infant 385 00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:42.440 and I had the story as it was given to 386 00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:46.599 me and written. But curiosity, obviously, and most authors are 387 00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:50.240 curious about characters and people they're writing about, so I 388 00:23:50.319 --> 00:23:56.079 sought her out and she had ended up being adopted 389 00:23:57.480 --> 00:23:59.799 by a family very close to where I lived at 390 00:23:59.799 --> 00:24:02.640 the It was one of those strange coincidences where I 391 00:24:02.680 --> 00:24:06.559 discovered where she grew up after adoption. She was literally 392 00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:09.880 just four miles away from where I lived the entire time. 393 00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:17.440 And this is a blood cousin, first cousin. She she's 394 00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:20.920 she's got a good life for herself now she's runs 395 00:24:20.920 --> 00:24:24.200 a business on Cape Cod and she's doing very well. 396 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:29.680 My memories of Mark are basically triggered by photos that 397 00:24:29.720 --> 00:24:33.119 I have that were provided to me by by relatives 398 00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:36.960 of us together. There were oftentimes my mother and Toby 399 00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:40.440 would go out on shopping missions and take the two 400 00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:42.759 of us in the same carriage and kind of kind 401 00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:47.000