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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Great Attack of the Old Time Radio

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from Boise, Idaho. This is your host, Adam Graham. In

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a moment, we're going to bring in this week's episode.

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I'm dragging it, but first I do want to encourage you.

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If you're enjoying the podcast, please follow us using your

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favorite podcast software. And today's program is brought to you

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in part by the financial support of our listeners. You

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can support the show on a one time basis by

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mail a donation to Adam Graham Pillbox one HOB nine

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one three. That's pill box one HOB nine thirteen Boise

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idahol eight three seven one five. In addition, you can

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become one of our ongoing Patreon supporters for his little

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last two dollars per month. Just go to Patreon dot

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Great Detectives dot net. Now from May twenty fourth, nineteen

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fifty one, here is the Big Mailman.

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Speaker 2: The story you were about to hear is true, only

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the names have been changed to protect the innocent. You're

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a detective sergeant. You're assigned to forgery detail. Now United

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States Postal Inspector comes to your office. You'll receive the

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same complaints he has. Somebody is stealing mail in your city.

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Your job help get.

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Speaker 3: Him drag Net The document a drama of an actual crime.

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Well the next thirty minutes, in cooperation with the Los

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Angeles Police Department, you will travel step by step on

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the side of the law through an actual case transcribed

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from official police files, from beginning to end, from crime

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to punishment, Dragnet is the story of your police force

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and action.

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Speaker 4: It was Monday, March third, was reigning in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 5: We were working the day Watch out of forgery detail.

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My partner's Ben Romero. The boss is Captain Harry Elliott.

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My name's Friday was seven forty five am when I

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got to Room twenty nine forgery detail.

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Speaker 4: Marten Jill Hi Ben Sure coming down out there? Yeah?

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Look at this code soken. Is that the same trench

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coat that English one?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Ever since I had it cleaned, it seems to soak

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up the water a little more. Does it leak? Oh no,

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it just seems to take on a little more water,

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keeps me dry. Got something to show you, Joe.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, remember that old raincoat of mine used to leak

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up through the seams over the shoulders.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, they could look at this what you got there?

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Speaker 7: Pretty neat. Huh yeah, what is it? My new raincoat?

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Never know what you're small? Compact?

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Speaker 4: The whole thing's hardly any bigger impact of cigarette?

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Speaker 6: No bad? Huh Yeah?

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Speaker 4: What'd you get it?

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Speaker 7: Wife bought it for me. Amy says it's regged to

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full sized raincoat says forty long.

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Speaker 4: Amy says, so didn't you try it on?

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Speaker 7: I don't know you know how they make something like this.

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It's made out of plastic. Size isn't too important. Just

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plain coat, slipped right on over your suit, just like

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any other raincoat. I know it a fan. You haven't

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worn it, shetow No, it hadn't started rain and I

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left him?

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Speaker 4: Could I see that?

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Speaker 6: Sure?

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Speaker 7: Real compact, isn't it now? Something like this is really practical.

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 7: A little package like that you carried around with you

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all the time every day, company room and tall.

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Speaker 4: Yeah? What's it looked like?

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Speaker 7: Just like that little pouts here, same stuff. It's transparent,

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you know, regular plastic.

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Speaker 4: Could we look at it? Inside it? Okay, let's see

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we're here.

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Speaker 6: You better do it.

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Speaker 7: Okay, well I just done zip it here? You jowish compact,

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didn't it?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 7: There we go? Look there, Joe all folded up nice

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and knee Joy's light weight too, plastic's great in fine,

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you know. Now we go full size rank coat. See, yeah,

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it's fine. Never know if full size coat is going

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anything like that little pouts there would is no bigger

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than tobacco part. Yeah that's pretty good. You know what,

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try it on, Joe. Never know you had anything on

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showys light and nice?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I can see.

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Speaker 7: Now we just put it back into the pouchs till

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I'm ready for it.

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Speaker 4: I say.

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Speaker 7: Now, color goes up, one folds in lock theirs. No, no, no,

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that isn't right. Goes this way. Let's put it down

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on the table.

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Speaker 4: That'll be better.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, that's better. Now here we go. Now we

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fold the arms in here. Now the bottom part comes

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up this way.

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Speaker 6: Now we fold it over and again he's in it.

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Speaker 7: Just follow the crease marks in your home, Joe. Yeah, now,

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if you don't have me that little pouch.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, there you go.

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Speaker 7: Well, thank you. Now, no, I yuess that's too big.

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Well we'll make one more folding guy. Yeah, well it's

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small enough this way, but it's too fat in You.

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Speaker 4: Better watch it there.

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Speaker 6: You're gonna tear that little sack it's funny.

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Speaker 4: I fold it right over the old creases there too,

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fat in Welcomen't you just carry it in your pocket

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like that without the pouch. Sure, that's it. Flip in

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my coat pocket? No, No, that won't do, George boys,

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just right out.

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Speaker 7: It's kind of spring jumps out like a piece of

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pongee self. Yeah it seems to well, it's still light

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weight and easy to hand. I'm sure easy to carry

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you just like that? Yeah, well made little thoughts. Seems

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a shame not to be able to use it.

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Speaker 4: You smoke a pipe? No, you know that, just cigarette.

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I'll find some use for it. Probably one hundred things.

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Speaker 7: A fellow could use a little dogs like for if

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I could just think of them, right all, Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 6: I ain't Romero. You want to step in here from it? Right?

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Speaker 4: Kevin?

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Speaker 6: You fellows?

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Speaker 7: No, inspect the Smith Post Office department.

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Speaker 4: Sure are good to see you.

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Speaker 6: Little How you doing, Jill So, No, thank you, yes

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very much.

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Speaker 7: Inspector Smith's over here on that mail thiep case that

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we've been walking up.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, did you receive those reports we sent over

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to there yesterday?

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Speaker 6: No, I haven't been to the office yet. Came straight

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over here.

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Speaker 5: Burglar returned it over to us yesterday afternoon. Ben and

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I ran it down. Seems to us like it might

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fit in somewhere here.

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Speaker 6: Miller and Ash and I've probably got your reports now.

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I was just going to call in. Do you mind

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filling me on it?

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Speaker 7: Apartment house over and over landlad reported the theft a

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part of a mail box out there.

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Speaker 5: And somebody stole a master panel off the front of

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the community mailbox at the apartment house.

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Speaker 4: Figure it must have happened sometime during the night.

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Speaker 6: Oh yeah, I believe we got something on that too.

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A postman on the route reported.

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Speaker 7: And that's how he's getting into the mailbox and steals

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the front panel, makes the key for himself, and then

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he's in business. Guy like, whereafter could put a key

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like that? The good use for a great many different

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mailboxes round town.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's the same mo. We've been on this guy

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for a long time. He pulled the same thing down

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in San Diego, was knocking down about two thousand dollars

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a month, then he laid out. Now he's at it

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again up here in la.

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Speaker 5: As you know, we've been getting reports of the thefts

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and the passing of the checks about ten days ago.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I know, we've got five checks passed.

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Speaker 5: By this same thief. According to handwriting analysis. We know

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it's the same guy.

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Speaker 7: Talk to the victims and the bank tellers description of

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the guy seems to tell.

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Speaker 4: You with what you people have on him. Yeah, there's

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just one thing we haven't been able to piece out yet.

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Speaker 6: What's that?

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Speaker 1: Yo?

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Speaker 4: But when he steals a check, how does he know

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what bank to pass it on?

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Speaker 6: I think we got the answer to that one.

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Speaker 5: Well, let's say that he steals a letter. We know

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he doesn't only hit the community mailboxes. Sometimes he goes

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to a private residence fishes the letters right out of

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the mail slots.

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Speaker 6: In that case, Yeah, some kind of a gimmick he

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gets down in those slots with it.

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Speaker 4: That's what we figure LEO. But we'll say after he's

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got a letter with a check in it, and now

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it's easy enough for.

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Speaker 5: A good forger to put an endorsement on it, But how.

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Speaker 4: Does he know what branch of the bank to pass

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it on.

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Speaker 6: Well, sometime or other he's stealing bank statements as well.

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Maybe he's just lucky at the time he steals a check.

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There's other mail in the box too, victims' bank statements.

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Speaker 7: Well, as far as that goes, I suppose he's stolen

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more than once from the same party. He could probably

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get away with bank statements easy.

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Speaker 6: That's it. People never seem to report anything missing in

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the mails until weeks after it's happened. It's easy to

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see why.

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Speaker 7: I'm not sure anything's wrong until they wait several days.

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They don't want to bother us in the case of

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anything routine like monthly bank statements, and in the case

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of a check will sometimes it's from a relative or

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someone who owes the money, and they don't want to

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embarrass him by writing or calling to find out about it.

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Speaker 5: And I suppose in the case of anything like a

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dividend check. We've got a couple of those leo, but

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people who lose.

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Speaker 4: Them just don't think it's time for him to arrive yet,

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so they just wait. Huh.

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Speaker 6: That's it, and that's why it's been so successful. Plus

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the fact that it takes about a week for any

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kind of check to be process through center clearing at

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any bank and then to the bank, wouldn't necessarily know

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that anything was wrong at that time.

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Speaker 7: Until the bank receives a complaint from the party who

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missed the check. They couldn't have any way of knowing

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that anything was wrong.

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Speaker 6: That's right.

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Speaker 7: Tell him what you were telling me this morning, Leo. Well,

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you people aren't in it deep enough to know this yet.

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Speaker 6: But this guy's been hitting the same branch bank maybe

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two three times in a row. Not here in La Heading, No,

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not yet. It looks to us like he's just started

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up his operations here in town. That's the way he

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worked it down in San Diego.

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Speaker 5: No, it's easy enough to figure if he got a

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teller in some bank to go along with him, someone

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who didn't suspect him, and since the victims reported so light,

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he could get away with it at least that many

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times at the same bank.

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Speaker 6: And yeah, if people report missing mail immediately, to make

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it a lot tougher for the thief.

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Speaker 7: The last name and I'm still good Hobby Fletcher, that's

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what we're going on. Yeah, you've got bulletins out to

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all the banks carrying that description on him.

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Speaker 6: And he changed alien. The WMA average build hundred and

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fifty hundred and sixty pounds, gray eyes about thirty two

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to thirty five. Well, addressed carryings a briefcase like of personality.

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That's all we got on Oh there's a little something

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we picked up yesterday from a bank teller. She told

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us the man had long sideburns. For what it's worth,

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you might.

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Speaker 5: Add that, Okay, Don Myers and handwriting his check through

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his files.

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Speaker 4: Lee.

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Speaker 5: Oh, they haven't got anything on him, and the stats

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office hasn't been able to make him on his m own.

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Speaker 6: And we know you people are doing everything you can

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for us. We appreciate it.

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Speaker 4: I wish we could do more. Name Harvey Fletcher. Of

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the five checks that we've got on the guy.

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Speaker 5: According to handwriting analysis on him, he's only used that

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name once. Rest of the time he signs the same

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last name as the pay's name on the face of

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the check.

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Speaker 7: He passes himself off as a brother or husband or

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some relation to the rightful pay.

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Speaker 6: That's what's taking in all those bank tellers. Plus a

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smooth personality. It's cool, collected, all the confidence in the world.

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Ye know, figures, and we got one day before yesterday

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with a little different twist. He's going to help us

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any but here's the way he's working it. In some

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cases deposits a large check to the victim's account, then

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he only takes out a small portion in cash, throws

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a tellers off even more.

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Speaker 7: Here's mos fun the stats, Leo. That's his copies of

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the last five checks that we got on the day.

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Oh yeah, thanks, her Maya says, they're all in the

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same handwriting. Is there anything else we can do for you, Leon?

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We've got all the banks in the area covered, got

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bulletins out on them. That's fine. I don't think we've

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overlooked anything. Patrol units have been a learned well.

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Speaker 5: His latest stuff to that mailbox panel. It's too bad

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we can't localize his operations a little, Leo.

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Speaker 7: Didn't you say that if he makes a key, that

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key would fit any number of boxes in the city.

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We couldn't pin him down to one neighborhood, could we.

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Speaker 6: That's right, That key will work on different mail routs.

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He probably knows the neighborhood around Alvarado is hot. Now

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he'll leave it alone anyway.

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Speaker 7: It's impossible to stake him out on the actual thefts

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of the mail. It's too bad we can't get to

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him through one of the banks when he cashes him.

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Speaker 6: Oh your man, par and ours put together couldn't cover

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all the banks in LA at one time, But we've

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been spot checking throughout the city, hoping maybe to tab him.

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Speaker 7: Just by luck, we might get a break from one

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of our bulletins. Maybe some tellos.

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Speaker 6: Well, I'm not sure yet. That's one of the reasons

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I came over here this morning. But maybe we've got

279
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a little something. What's that Well Bank out in Westwood

280
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phoned us yesterday. Teller thought she recognized the guy from

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his description. Didn't dawn on her till after the guy

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left her window. She rushed out in time to get

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the license number of his car.

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Speaker 4: Maybe it's a break.

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Speaker 6: Huh, Yeah, it looks pretty good. The check was drawn

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on the account of a William E. Scott. That's the

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number two victim here in LA. That's right, you've got

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the photos out of his checks right there. Yeah, I know. Well,

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everything seems to fit. This check he passed yesterday out

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and Westwood was probably stolen at the same time as

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the first one, or at least it came from this

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Scott's mailbox that we know.

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Speaker 7: Or didn't this William Scott report the theft of two checks.

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I know he didn't do us. Maybe he did to you, No, he.

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Speaker 6: Didn't, said he couldn't be sure. He gets quite a

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few checks through the mail, owns a lot of stock,

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gets dividends.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and probably doesn't know when they come each month.

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Speaker 6: That's right. He didn't miss the first one until it

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was way overdue. Might even be others missing, he doesn't

301
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know for sure yet.

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Speaker 5: Well, anyway, he's positive on this latest one out in

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Westwood that the bank teller caught h sure.

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Speaker 6: As soon as the bank manager called him, he knew

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he hadn't authorized anybody to cash any of his checks.

306
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The mos. Well, that's what's kind is going on. It

307
00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:06,399
looks real good, smooth operator deposited part of the money,

308
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took the balance in cash. The major switch in his

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operation was the fact that he didn't go to the

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victims regular bank as he did on that first check.

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That sounds good. I mean, we kind of think so.

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That's the reason I came over here this morning, Conway

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are handwriting man thinks it's the same as the guy

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we're after. He asked me to check it through Don

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Myers to be sure.

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Speaker 4: What signature do use on this last one?

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Speaker 6: Now that's another part of the m or the checks out.

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You remember, on the first check, he forged the victim's

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name William Scott, and he made it a second party

320
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check by signing the phony name George Scott, passing himself

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off as a nephew of the victim.

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Speaker 4: Pretty smart.

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Speaker 5: He goes to this victim's regular bank, and he doesn't

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take the chance of being tabbed as the paye. He

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covers by using that nephew gimme yeah.

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Speaker 6: This time he goes to a different branch, not the

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regular branch of the victim deals with us. In the

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first case, he simply forges the victim's name and lets

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it go at that.

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Speaker 4: Are you doing anything in that license number?

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Speaker 6: Ashton and Miller checked it out late yesterday afternoon. They're

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00:13:58,039 --> 00:14:01,519
on it now, need any help so far? I'm interested

333
00:14:01,519 --> 00:14:03,799
in what Don Myers has to say about the handwriting.

334
00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:05,919
You want to be through about now. I'll give him

335
00:14:05,919 --> 00:14:15,200
a call. Thanks, Harry, Oh Don?

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Speaker 7: Who is this is Elliott? You know Don's checked that

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00:14:19,679 --> 00:14:23,480
stuff through for Inspector Smith yet. Okay?

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Speaker 6: Thanks? So no, that's all right, we'll get to.

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Speaker 4: Don was called out of the office for a minute.

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Speaker 6: That was sloan.

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Speaker 7: He says, he's sure Don's finished with it. Oh fine,

342
00:14:32,759 --> 00:14:34,519
you say when he be back, he just duck down

343
00:14:34,519 --> 00:14:36,960
to that Brown's office for a minute. I'll call down

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there for you.

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Speaker 6: That's sorry. I don't walk down there myself. I need

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00:14:39,399 --> 00:14:40,480
the exercise go and.

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Speaker 4: I walk on down with you.

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Speaker 6: Let's go, all right, you fellas will be back there one,

349
00:14:44,799 --> 00:14:46,320
I'm sure as soon as I check with myers.

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Speaker 7: All right?

351
00:14:52,759 --> 00:14:55,679
Speaker 6: Uh? Which way is it from here? Hall looks the

352
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,919
same from one end of the other. Huh, okay, this

353
00:14:59,039 --> 00:15:00,559
affects you'd like to f federal building?

354
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Speaker 4: Does many? I get all turned around the bear?

355
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Speaker 6: Yeah. Well, this fellow's down in San Diego had a

356
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rough going this thing.

357
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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I was talking to McGuire and Ormsby down there just

359
00:15:09,799 --> 00:15:11,480
the other day. They said they were going around circles

360
00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:11,639
on it.

361
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Speaker 6: He broke a lot of ground for us, checked out

362
00:15:13,919 --> 00:15:16,519
a lot of suspects, cleared him, checked out all that

363
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,519
stuff that Breton from CII sent them. Yeah, you know

364
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:20,759
how thorough that guy is.

365
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Speaker 4: It figures they've done a lot of leg where Friday.

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Speaker 6: You say you just talked to him down there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right, Lyn.

368
00:15:26,799 --> 00:15:28,799
Speaker 6: Well, then you know about all those bulletins they got

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on the guy. Description, exemplars of his handwriting set him

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00:15:32,559 --> 00:15:34,240
every police department in the United States.

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Speaker 5: And it's a big job. I'll go get done. It's

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00:15:36,759 --> 00:15:40,919
right here, thanks Joe, right don Yeah, Joe Leo Smith

373
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:42,960
in the post office departments waiting to see you. All right, Joe,

374
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:47,720
just on my way back to the office. Oh don sorry,

375
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:49,000
I had to duck out for a minute.

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Speaker 6: Oh that's all right, said, you get a chance to

377
00:15:51,039 --> 00:15:52,919
look at Scott check over. Yeah, it did. Got a

378
00:15:52,919 --> 00:15:55,559
couple of things to show you back in the office. Okay, fine.

379
00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,799
Was Conway positive on this one. He said he felt

380
00:15:59,799 --> 00:16:01,759
we the right man, but he wanted your opinion to

381
00:16:01,799 --> 00:16:02,720
be absolutely sure.

382
00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,360
Speaker 8: I couldn't be positive, but I think maybe as a man,

383
00:16:05,759 --> 00:16:07,759
there's a great similarity, but too much.

384
00:16:07,639 --> 00:16:12,120
Speaker 6: Pressure on the downstrokes. Yees. The O's just not too sure.

385
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,279
Speaker 8: They're a little different than some of the previous samples

386
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:15,120
of the guy's handwriting.

387
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,679
Speaker 6: Uh huh, I can show you better. Back to the office.

388
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:18,559
Got a few things for you.

389
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:20,080
Speaker 4: I think there's a possibility.

390
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,320
Speaker 8: Don Let me put it this way. I won't say

391
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,480
it is, and I won't say it isn't. Let's pick

392
00:16:24,519 --> 00:16:27,440
him up and find out for sure. Here were Go ahead, fellows,

393
00:16:27,519 --> 00:16:31,360
thank you, I've blown those things up here.

394
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:33,440
Speaker 4: Uh call fee lal, I'm three.

395
00:16:33,679 --> 00:16:41,320
Speaker 6: Oh thanks Harry. Excuse the smith talking.

396
00:16:43,039 --> 00:16:43,399
Speaker 4: You did?

397
00:16:44,799 --> 00:16:49,399
Speaker 6: Uh, we did all right. Look, why don't you bring

398
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,320
him down a forgery detail here at the city hall.

399
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:58,240
We'll talk to him here, write it right, thanks, Well,

400
00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:00,240
it looks like the end of the trail. That was ash.

401
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,360
He and Miller picked him up. He's our man, admitted

402
00:17:02,399 --> 00:17:02,919
the forgery.

403
00:17:03,159 --> 00:17:05,200
Speaker 4: Looks like San Diego did all the work and we

404
00:17:05,279 --> 00:17:05,960
get all the luck.

405
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:17,319
Speaker 9: Anyway, we got him.

406
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,119
Speaker 10: You are in the scientific Investigation division of a metropolitan

407
00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:32,200
police department, the ballistics room.

408
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,240
Speaker 2: You have just heard a test bullet fired from a

409
00:17:34,279 --> 00:17:37,160
thirty eight caliber revolver found in the possession of a suspect.

410
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,680
Speaker 10: The test slug is removed from the ballistics box and

411
00:17:39,839 --> 00:17:42,000
compared with the slug found at the scene of the crime.

412
00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,000
Speaker 2: There they are side by side. They look alike, but

413
00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:49,519
examination will prove a world of difference.

414
00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:58,240
Speaker 4: In the routine solution of the case.

415
00:17:58,279 --> 00:18:00,640
Speaker 5: The police officer has always benefited by the leg work

416
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,240
of his fellow officers. In this case, the men of

417
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,000
the San Diego Police Department, in conjunction with the Post

418
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,440
Office Department had done most of the spade work, and

419
00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,960
the actual apprehension of the suspect appeared to be almost

420
00:18:11,039 --> 00:18:11,839
too easy.

421
00:18:11,519 --> 00:18:14,599
Speaker 4: On our end. Even though Ben and I hadn't participated

422
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:15,839
in the physical arrest of the.

423
00:18:15,799 --> 00:18:19,200
Speaker 5: Suspect, we felt the same gratification for the speedy solution

424
00:18:19,279 --> 00:18:21,079
of the case as did the postal authorities.

425
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:23,160
Speaker 4: Monday, March third.

426
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Speaker 5: Three, twenty seven pm, Miller and Ashton of the Post

427
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Office Department brought the suspect in for questioning. The prisoner

428
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,279
was turned over to inspected Leo Smith. Ben and I

429
00:18:31,319 --> 00:18:32,480
sat in on the interrogation.

430
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Speaker 6: Carver Gleeson. That's your true name, yes, sir it is.

431
00:18:36,279 --> 00:18:38,920
You say you've never been arrested before. No, sir, I

432
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,960
never have. You know. We're going to check that out, yes, sir,

433
00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,160
All right now, let's go over it again the same way.

434
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,160
That's up to you. We want the truth. I've told

435
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,880
you the truth. You asked me questions about stealing mail,

436
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,200
about forging checks. You said I was down in San Diego.

437
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,240
Well it's not true. None of it's true. Have you

438
00:18:58,279 --> 00:18:59,480
ever stolen from the mails?

439
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:00,799
Speaker 4: So? I never have.

440
00:19:01,079 --> 00:19:03,359
Speaker 6: I know. That's pretty serious events. What makes you think

441
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,480
forging isn't what you're trying to say.

442
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:06,559
Speaker 9: No, I'm not.

443
00:19:07,599 --> 00:19:09,640
Speaker 6: I didn't say that, but this was the first time

444
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,119
I've ever done anything like this. I didn't even think

445
00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,599
about the consequences. Should have thought about them. When's the

446
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,440
last time you were in San Diego? I've never been there.

447
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,000
I don't even know for sure where it is. How

448
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,559
long you've been in Los Angeles? About three months?

449
00:19:23,599 --> 00:19:23,759
Speaker 4: Now?

450
00:19:24,039 --> 00:19:28,079
Speaker 6: Where's your home Akron, Ohio? How old you say you were?

451
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,680
Twenty five? And what you been doing since you got

452
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,680
out here? That's just it. Nothing can't find a job,

453
00:19:35,039 --> 00:19:36,799
or how you've been getting by, how you've been living,

454
00:19:37,319 --> 00:19:40,279
been staying down to YMCA Hope Street. I guess it

455
00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,559
is what you been doing for money? Well, my folks

456
00:19:43,559 --> 00:19:46,039
gave me a little when I left Akron. I thought

457
00:19:46,079 --> 00:19:47,720
i'd have a job by now. I didn't want to

458
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,400
write home for anymore. So when I found a check,

459
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,119
I figured I could get away with it. I needed money,

460
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,960
and I cashed it. And where'd you say you found it?

461
00:19:56,519 --> 00:20:01,720
Or on Let's Street out that way singing nagger? Is

462
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:02,400
that how you said?

463
00:20:02,759 --> 00:20:04,200
Speaker 4: L Yeah?

464
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,720
Speaker 6: What were you doing out there? Well? I was answering

465
00:20:06,759 --> 00:20:08,440
an ad in to classify and was trying to find

466
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,400
a job. I had to park the car down the

467
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,759
streets from the place, and on my way back, I

468
00:20:13,799 --> 00:20:15,880
found this check on the sidewalk right near the bank

469
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,119
on the corner. Where'd you get the car? It's my father's.

470
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,680
The car is registered in your name with California plates.

471
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,400
How to explain that? Well, what folks told me when

472
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,039
I got to California to go right to the authorities

473
00:20:27,039 --> 00:20:29,000
and register the car if I was gonna stay so

474
00:20:29,079 --> 00:20:31,799
I wouldn't get in any trouble. That's where part of

475
00:20:31,839 --> 00:20:34,000
my money went. You got anything else you want to

476
00:20:34,039 --> 00:20:38,279
tell us, Well, I did it. I admit that. I

477
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,279
want to make it up somehow. The check was for

478
00:20:41,319 --> 00:20:44,160
fifty seven dollars I gave them in that arrested me

479
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,559
fifty of it and I spent seven dollars. Yeah, that's

480
00:20:46,599 --> 00:20:50,319
all on the record. I did wrong. I'll pay the

481
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,200
seven dollars back, but you can take that up with

482
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,480
the judge. Gleason Friday, MARYL. You want to step outside

483
00:20:55,519 --> 00:20:58,400
with me a minute, Yeah, right, Grease, And you wait

484
00:20:58,440 --> 00:20:59,559
here with that officer.

485
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:06,200
Speaker 7: Yes, sir, what do you think he's telling the truth.

486
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,960
He's not the one we want. How about you, Joe, Yeah,

487
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,720
I'll go along with Ben. It makes three of us.

488
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 5: Monday, March third, five pm, we went in and checked

489
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,400
with Don Myers, and carefully going over exemplars of Carver

490
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,839
Gleason's handwriting, he had definitely eliminated him as our suspect.

491
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:29,119
Carver Gleason remained in custody awaiting trial. Three months went by.

492
00:21:29,599 --> 00:21:33,200
During this time, the burglaries and forgeries continued. Suspects were

493
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,759
picked up, checked out, and released. We got nowhere. Tuesday,

494
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,359
July twelfth, we received a communication from Chief Adam Jensen

495
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,960
of the San Diego Police Department, who stated he was

496
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,319
forwarding a radiogram from Chief John W. Pole Scene of

497
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:50,079
the Milwaukee, Wisconsin Police Department. The radiogram from Chief pole

498
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,880
Scene stated that his handwriting man in Milwaukee had identified

499
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:55,880
the suspects handwriting as listed in one of the San

500
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:57,319
Diego bulletins as.

501
00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:58,160
Speaker 4: Belonging to Philip E.

502
00:21:58,279 --> 00:21:58,799
Speaker 6: Holloway.

503
00:21:59,279 --> 00:22:02,759
Speaker 5: Holloway was acted two years previous on a reckless driving charge.

504
00:22:03,039 --> 00:22:05,319
The physical description of the man matched closely with the

505
00:22:05,319 --> 00:22:07,359
one that we'd received on a suspect known to us

506
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,720
as Harvey Fletcher. They further stated that although he was

507
00:22:10,759 --> 00:22:13,359
at one time a resident of Milwaukee, they had nothing

508
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,160
further on him. It was just an outside chance, but

509
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,279
we decided that in all probability, this could be the

510
00:22:18,279 --> 00:22:22,559
suspect's true name, Philippi Holloway. This information was forwarded to

511
00:22:22,599 --> 00:22:25,039
the postal authorities. Ben and I started to check through

512
00:22:25,039 --> 00:22:27,880
our channels to determine the whereabouts of the suspect, Philippi

513
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,279
Holloway with a possible alias of Harvey Fletcher.

514
00:22:31,759 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 7: That's it, Joe. Nothing in any of the phone books. Yeah,

515
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,680
covered everything I can think of. Our records, Sureiff's records.

516
00:22:37,759 --> 00:22:41,759
Nothing from CII utility companies. Yeah, well, maybe Smith found

517
00:22:41,799 --> 00:22:43,720
something on him. We haven't got anything here, Thank God.

518
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:44,680
Give him a call, aren't you?

519
00:22:44,839 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd like to know. That's extension sixty six four.

520
00:22:52,599 --> 00:22:58,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, I know, yeah, six six four Hello, Inspector Smith.

521
00:22:58,960 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 4: Please?

522
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 6: How's that? Well?

523
00:23:02,039 --> 00:23:05,880
Speaker 7: I see, no, that's all right, thank you. On his

524
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:07,480
way over here. He left five minutes ago.

525
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,319
Speaker 6: I sure hope he's got something, Joe, Ben, I think

526
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:12,279
maybe we ran it down.

527
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 4: Good. How'd you do it to the postal service?

528
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:15,759
Speaker 6: Yeah? Didn't figure did it?

529
00:23:15,759 --> 00:23:15,880
Speaker 4: Well?

530
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 5: We didn't think he'd stay put long enough to have

531
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:18,400
a permanent address.

532
00:23:18,519 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 6: We's been on the move. We got the last known

533
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,640
address on him, received mail there two days ago.

534
00:23:22,759 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 7: You want to check with Don Myers. He's been working

535
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,359
over those exemplars at Milwaukee Center. It just did called

536
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:28,599
him about fifteen minutes ago.

537
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 6: Oh, we just got back from Mary and I what

538
00:23:30,559 --> 00:23:32,200
do you have to say this son? He and Conway

539
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,880
agree all the way to this trip. Yeah, alloways our man.

540
00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:40,599
Speaker 4: Together with a postal authority's been and I helped him.

541
00:23:40,599 --> 00:23:41,400
The twenty four hour.

542
00:23:41,279 --> 00:23:45,119
Speaker 5: Surveillance placed on the suspect, Philippi Holloway Our fightings disclosed

543
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:46,920
that he was living in a modest apartment house and

544
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,160
he was employed by a local vacuum cleaner company as

545
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,160
a door to door salesman. This type of occupation would

546
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,920
enable anyone to have suspicion free access to any and

547
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,279
all types of home mailboxes. The first three days of

548
00:23:58,319 --> 00:24:02,200
the surveillance failed to disclose any the incriminating evidence. Thursday

549
00:24:02,319 --> 00:24:05,359
July seventeenth, fifth day of the twenty four hour surveillance,

550
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,720
two thirty pm, Holloway came out of his apartment building,

551
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,599
got into his car and drove approximately four miles to

552
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,279
the Echo Park residential district.

553
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,279
Speaker 4: He parked his car, got.

554
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 5: Out and went up the steps of a small apartment

555
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,160
house together with Inspector Leo Smith.

556
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 4: Ben and I followed him.

557
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:24,319
Speaker 6: You want to pull up here, Ben?

558
00:24:24,319 --> 00:24:24,799
Speaker 4: This is good?

559
00:24:25,039 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 6: All right?

560
00:24:29,319 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's going for that mailbox, isn't he.

561
00:24:31,319 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, he's got the keys opening the panel.

562
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,599
Speaker 4: Nott a worry in the world.

563
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 6: Broad daylight. Look at that, he's got all the letters

564
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,079
out of the box. Got him in his pocket on

565
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:47,119
his way back to his car.

566
00:24:47,319 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 4: Leover is a bank right up there in sunset.

567
00:24:49,079 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 6: See, okay, let's stay with him. How's it look, Joey?

568
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:53,480
You can see him a head in there? Is he

569
00:24:53,559 --> 00:24:53,960
pulling out?

570
00:24:53,960 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 4: Wait a minute, all right, let's go better pull up here. Huh?

571
00:25:09,519 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 6: Look at that just like it was blueprinted right in

572
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:24,880
the back. Come on, yeah, joe you see him there?

573
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,279
He is second one that just get in line right

574
00:25:27,319 --> 00:25:27,720
behind him?

575
00:25:27,759 --> 00:25:32,079
Speaker 4: Right assume me I help you?

576
00:25:32,319 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 6: Yes, I wonder if you can catch a check for me?

577
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 4: Yes, sir, would you endorse it to you?

578
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 6: Also?

579
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 11: Sure?

580
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 6: Anyway, as you can see this as one of my

581
00:25:41,759 --> 00:25:43,799
mother's checks, I guess I can catch it alright. For us.

582
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,000
Do you have any identification? I'm sorry, I don't. I'll

583
00:25:47,039 --> 00:25:49,279
say I have this envelope to check with mail day and.

584
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:49,759
Speaker 7: The left here.

585
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 4: Yes, I think that's alright.

586
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 6: How would you like this so he doesn't want it anyway?

587
00:25:53,279 --> 00:25:56,200
Miss just hold like check for us please postal inspector. Yes, sir,

588
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,839
I thank your pardon. I believe you're making a mistake here.

589
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,799
Speaker 4: No, there's no mistake. Come on, step over here, shaken down.

590
00:26:02,559 --> 00:26:05,079
Speaker 6: I don't understand all this. That k you used over

591
00:26:05,079 --> 00:26:07,039
there on Baxter Street, that the one you made from

592
00:26:07,039 --> 00:26:09,839
that panel you stole over on Alvarado about four months ago.

593
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,480
Know about that? Yeah, we do. And you know all right?

594
00:26:15,559 --> 00:26:19,599
For wild that king was a pretty good one, isn't they?

595
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,319
They're in the lock in the world. I can't make

596
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,319
it key for we got one in mind. You might

597
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:25,000
have trouble with.

598
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,079
Speaker 2: The story you have just heard was true under The

599
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,079
names were changed to protect the innocent.

600
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,279
Speaker 10: On October fifteenth, trial was held in the United States

601
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,119
District Court state of California. In a moment the results

602
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:55,319
of that trial, the suspect, Philip Elwood Holloway, was found

603
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,039
guilty on all counts. He was sentenced to ten years

604
00:26:58,039 --> 00:27:00,759
in the federal penitentiary. Five years of his sentence was

605
00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:03,319
suspended and he was placed on probation, one of the

606
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,440
conditions being that he make restitution of the stolen money.

607
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen. Accidents of all types kill more persons

608
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,359
from one to thirty five years of age than does

609
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,240
any single disease. America's homes and children can best be

610
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,119
kept safe if every father, mother, and child develops the

611
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:25,119
personal responsibility to know and observe home safety rules. Make

612
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:26,759
home safety a family affair.

613
00:27:27,559 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 4: Be careful.

614
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 2: The life you save may be your own.

615
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,559
Speaker 10: You have just heard Dragnet, a series of authentic cases

616
00:27:40,599 --> 00:27:43,640
from official files. Technical advice comes from the Office of

617
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,720
Chief of Police W. H. Parker, Los Angeles Police Department.

618
00:27:47,519 --> 00:28:07,279
Speaker 11: Stay tuned for Counterspy next over most NBC stations.

619
00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: We'll come back. This is probably one of those episodes

620
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,079
that was more interesting to me, due to my background

621
00:28:08,079 --> 00:28:11,759
in financial services, than it will be to most of you.

622
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:17,680
With Dragnet, there's often this very fine balance between being

623
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:23,200
educational and being entertaining, and this one kind of fails

624
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,920
on the entertainment side, though it should be said the

625
00:28:27,079 --> 00:28:32,720
educational element was important in that time because and for

626
00:28:32,839 --> 00:28:38,640
us listening seventy odd years later, it's an interesting cultural artifact.

627
00:28:39,319 --> 00:28:45,079
It captures the sort of psychological and consumer tendencies that

628
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:50,359
made the thieves job easier in this area, like you know,

629
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:55,640
careless practices and not you know, like not being aware

630
00:28:55,839 --> 00:28:58,960
of when you should be expecting your divid in checks,

631
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:04,839
or having sort of these social psychological things where you're

632
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,799
reluctant to ask people like you said, you sent me

633
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,960
that payment, I don't have it in the mail. And

634
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,920
then you have just a huge systematic problems such as

635
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,119
the length of time it took to process checks and

636
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,119
how people had to wait for their bank statements.

637
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 4: And then of.

638
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:28,119
Speaker 1: Course you have the identification standards that were used at

639
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,000
bank branches. And even though this was recorded half a

640
00:29:32,079 --> 00:29:35,799
century before I got into the industry, there was a

641
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,759
part of me inside screaming when the teller said she

642
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:45,359
could take the envelope for identification. Of course, the consumer

643
00:29:45,519 --> 00:29:49,880
couldn't do anything about the processing issues, but they could

644
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:54,039
do things to protect themselves in terms of being aware

645
00:29:54,359 --> 00:29:58,319
of when you receive your dividend checks and just being

646
00:29:58,319 --> 00:30:01,839
willing to call and say, ah, I'm just checking I

647
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:07,000
know you sent it, but I'm wondering if it might

648
00:30:07,039 --> 00:30:08,960
have been lost in the mail. We might need to

649
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,160
place a stop payment those sort of things. And you

650
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:17,720
can also see why there's been such an embrace of

651
00:30:17,759 --> 00:30:23,519
things like automatic payments, direct depausits, electronic brokerage, you know,

652
00:30:23,759 --> 00:30:28,559
et cetera, because those carry with them some risk of

653
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:34,240
some high tech criminal activity. But in many ways that

654
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,519
may be preferable to dealing with all of these sort

655
00:30:38,559 --> 00:30:43,720
of low tech scams and frauds that are very hard

656
00:30:43,799 --> 00:30:48,000
to track. Now it's a lot easier to deal with

657
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,920
encryption on a financial website than to have a situation

658
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,599
where like, okay, well we kind of need to be

659
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:59,400
able to watch every mailbox in a single portion of

660
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:04,480
Los angel And of course, check processing would be moved

661
00:31:04,519 --> 00:31:10,000
forward after nine to eleven when planes were grounded and

662
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:16,079
it really slowed the entire economy down because you couldn't

663
00:31:16,279 --> 00:31:22,000
process checks. And I think what Dragnet was dealing with

664
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,200
and the police officers at the time was sort of

665
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:29,079
the growing pains of a changing world and the sort

666
00:31:29,119 --> 00:31:33,079
of banking practices that might have worked okay in a

667
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,839
small town where everyone knew each other, We're not going

668
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:42,799
to work as technology advanced, as the ability of people

669
00:31:43,039 --> 00:31:49,839
to take advantage of the sort of shifting population of

670
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,680
Los Angeles, the constant in migration to and you know

671
00:31:54,839 --> 00:31:58,480
this would happen in other cities as well, and this

672
00:31:58,559 --> 00:32:02,160
would be some of the disk for some changes in

673
00:32:02,279 --> 00:32:05,839
the financial service industry. But in this episode of Dragnet,

674
00:32:05,839 --> 00:32:09,039
we just get some of the pain points that began

675
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,559
that movement. The other thing that this highlights is the

676
00:32:13,599 --> 00:32:21,240
idea of entered departmental cooperation, because the focus of Dragnet

677
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,440
is on the work of the Los Angeles Police Department,

678
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:31,960
but there are cases that require coordination with the FEDS

679
00:32:32,079 --> 00:32:37,160
and with other cities, and we saw that here where

680
00:32:37,599 --> 00:32:41,920
you work with the postal inspector with the San Diego

681
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,920
Police Department even got some help from the police department

682
00:32:46,039 --> 00:32:51,640
in Milwaukee and they even let Inspector Smith deliver the

683
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,119
zinger to the suspect. And you can't get much more

684
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,680
cooperative than that on Dragnet. The world has changed a

685
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,720
lot in the last seventy four years, but one thing

686
00:33:02,759 --> 00:33:07,079
that hasn't. You really can't get those coats back into

687
00:33:07,119 --> 00:33:11,160
their little packet. And that's pretty much true of everything

688
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,960
that comes in a nice convenient pouch. You try to

689
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,599
fit it back in and you're either gonna tear it

690
00:33:18,759 --> 00:33:22,240
or it won't look right. But in one way, it's

691
00:33:22,279 --> 00:33:27,200
it's something that an unchanging reality that gives you a

692
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,640
bit of comfort. I guess all right, Well, now it's

693
00:33:30,759 --> 00:33:33,079
time to thank our Patreon supporter of the day, and

694
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,799
I want to thank Mike, Patreon supporter since June twenty fifteen,

695
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,480
currently supporting the podcast at the Shawmus level of four

696
00:33:40,519 --> 00:33:43,519
dollars or more per month. Thanks so much for your support,

697
00:33:43,599 --> 00:33:45,759
mich And that will do it for today. If you're

698
00:33:45,839 --> 00:33:50,359
enjoying the podcast, please follow us using your favorite podcast software.

699
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,680
And if you're enjoying the podcast on YouTube but like

700
00:33:53,759 --> 00:33:57,720
the video, subscribe to the channel and mark the notification bell,

701
00:33:57,839 --> 00:34:00,880
all those great things that help YouTube canials to grow.

702
00:34:01,359 --> 00:34:04,920
We'll be back next Thursday with another episode of Dragnet,

703
00:34:05,079 --> 00:34:08,880
but join us back here tomorrow for yours truly, Johnny'd

704
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,119
all are ware of.

705
00:34:10,079 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 12: A hobby desert, thousands of square miles of sand, sun

706
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,440
bleached gravel and rock of cactus, sage and Jeshua trees,

707
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,960
hi flat maces, towering crags, countless trails leading off from

708
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,199
the highway, long abandoned roads leading up into the harsh

709
00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:29,079
Bleak Mountains, with their promise of infinite wealth to the

710
00:34:29,079 --> 00:34:31,599
prospectors who scratched away in the hungry search for silver

711
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:34,800
and gold. And who knows, perhaps some of these were

712
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,559
trails of the pioneers who beat a tortuous path westward

713
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to the great Pacific, who with their oxenen heavy wagons,

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were lucky if they made six miles a day. Yet

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here I was cruising along on an easy sixty miles

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an hour, and above me a jet plane lazily tearing

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00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:52,079
off six hundred miles an hour. Yeah, it made me

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00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:55,000
think about the men who lived in struggle here, the

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men who died of hunger and thirst, following the same

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path I was taking, never knowing that only a a

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few miles away behind the mountains was the mighty Colorado water,

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food and life for those lucky enough to find it.

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Speaker 1: I hope you'll be with us then in the meantime.

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Send your comments to Box thirteen at Greatdetectives dot net,

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00:35:14,519 --> 00:35:17,559
follow us on Twitter at Radio Detectives, and check us

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00:35:17,559 --> 00:35:22,480
out on Instagram, Instagram, dot com, slash Great Detectives from

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Boise Idaho. This is your host, Adam Graham signing off.