WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:21.079 Steps stop stop sentences in the box in the st 2 00:00:22.600 --> 00:01:15.799 st st st steps stop stop, stop stops, stop stops 3 00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:27.799 to east stopping a step, and stockings stops. 4 00:01:28.159 --> 00:03:13.439 At the Brazenski model, the technic crap model is much 5 00:03:13.479 --> 00:03:15.840 more interested in the incremental. 6 00:03:15.879 --> 00:03:20.599 Slow, killed Fabian approach to bringing the technocracy into being. 7 00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:24.759 So they're not going to send the Homeland security troops 8 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:27.080 to round you up and put you in a FEMA camp. 9 00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:32.000 They'd much rather promote everybody being in national video games, 10 00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:36.319 the Disney Gulog, the virtual reality gulog. 11 00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:39.439 All this kind of stuff is in much better FEMA 12 00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:42.039 camp in your home. They don't need the FEMA camp. 13 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:47.319 It's it's too messy, it's a big ordeal, and it's 14 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:50.919 all the nonsense of all the patriot crap on the radio. 15 00:03:52.039 --> 00:03:56.759 That's not gonna happen. They don't need to the shadow 16 00:03:56.800 --> 00:03:59.919 of the global government is already here. And as you 17 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:03.520 said that, it's in the latter stages of the mopping 18 00:04:03.639 --> 00:04:06.199 up process to move it into the next phase. And 19 00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:09.719 higg between two pages of the next page. 20 00:04:14.199 --> 00:04:24.680 M h. 21 00:04:31.120 --> 00:04:53.240 M hmm, what's up? Welcome? Can you hear me? We 22 00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:54.480 ain't got no sound on you. 23 00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:58.519 How about now we do. I can hear you know, yes, 24 00:05:00.199 --> 00:05:00.959 going on dude? 25 00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:03.319 Not much man? How are you? 26 00:05:05.240 --> 00:05:05.399 You know? 27 00:05:08.079 --> 00:05:08.600 Pandemic? 28 00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:11.360 I feel like I haven't talked to you in a while, 29 00:05:11.399 --> 00:05:13.000 so I'm glad you're back. It's good. 30 00:05:13.399 --> 00:05:15.399 I know, it's always good. I feel like I need 31 00:05:15.720 --> 00:05:17.639 I need one of these one on one with you, 32 00:05:17.879 --> 00:05:23.680 like every two months or something. How you do how 33 00:05:23.800 --> 00:05:24.439 you been doing? 34 00:05:26.040 --> 00:05:28.279 I can go one on one. I can beat you 35 00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:29.800 on horse, I could beat you on one on one. 36 00:05:29.879 --> 00:05:31.040 I could beat you in any game. 37 00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:35.519 Dog, wait till I wait till I get my back drop. 38 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:39.160 Uh, you're gonna have one of those green screens with 39 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:45.160 with the books with nineteen ninety three Windows screen savers 40 00:05:45.199 --> 00:05:48.920 in the background. That'd be sweet, all right? 41 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:49.319 Uh? 42 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:56.120 The crowd, the mob, the mindless mob of nerds that 43 00:05:56.240 --> 00:05:58.439 are also a high Q high IQ at the same time. 44 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:01.240 What's up? Can y'all hear me? Everybody go? Are we good? 45 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:08.199 Scam demit jenga scam jinga with Alex Jones eating oysters? 46 00:06:08.319 --> 00:06:12.519 What's up? I'm just waiting for the nerds to tell 47 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:14.480 me that the sound is good, and then we start talking, 48 00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:24.360 start jawing, you know how it is chat's always a 49 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:25.079 little bit behind. 50 00:06:26.439 --> 00:06:29.879 Yeah, this is like that weird on uh, when talk 51 00:06:29.959 --> 00:06:32.519 shows were a thing where the guests would be on 52 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:35.439 and they just wouldn't talk to each other until the 53 00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:37.720 you know, the commercial came back. 54 00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:43.720 I go on radio shows still and it's like that, 55 00:06:43.879 --> 00:06:46.680 and it's weird when that happens. They're like, all right, 56 00:06:46.759 --> 00:06:48.319 you'll be back in five minutes, and then you just 57 00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:50.639 have to sit there listening to the radio and then 58 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:53.480 some weird ad for they. 59 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:55.040 Just don't want to they don't want to miss a 60 00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:56.519 good sound bite. 61 00:06:56.600 --> 00:06:59.839 I think, yeah, makes sense. That's a good point. Any 62 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:03.040 think about that. All right, everybody says the sound is good. 63 00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:07.879 Hopefully more nerds will roll in here. One hundred and fifty. Yeah, 64 00:07:07.920 --> 00:07:10.399 we will get some nerds in here. Everybody's off doing 65 00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:14.439 homework because they're nerds. Well, hopefully we're gonna have a 66 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:18.040 good show tonight. Because Jimbob has been asking me some 67 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:22.199 some fire questions in my inbox. He was blowing me up. 68 00:07:22.959 --> 00:07:26.000 He's blowing me up in a good way, not in 69 00:07:26.120 --> 00:07:28.519 a in a mean way, not in a terrorist way, 70 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:33.360 philosophy terrorism, blowing me up, asking pretty good questions and 71 00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:35.319 actually a lot of the questions that Jimbob asked are 72 00:07:35.399 --> 00:07:38.879 questions that a lot of people kind of ask in 73 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:42.879 a not in a I mean, Jimbab wasn't asking dumb questions. 74 00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:45.800 I'm saying that he was asking them in an intelligent way. 75 00:07:45.879 --> 00:07:47.959 But a lot of people take the questions that we 76 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:50.720 were chatting about the last couple of weeks and they 77 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:54.399 run off in a dumb way and they come up 78 00:07:54.439 --> 00:07:59.160 with dumb ideas, dumb world views, and ridiculous positions. So 79 00:07:59.279 --> 00:08:02.160 we're gonna hit on some of those, as you can 80 00:08:02.199 --> 00:08:05.680 tell from the clickbaity retitle that I gave this stream. 81 00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:09.120 You know, you see these videos about glitches in the matrix, 82 00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:12.920 you see videos about simulation theory and all kinds of stuff. 83 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:15.959 But also a lot of the philosophical questions that jim 84 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:22.519 Bob brought up are more high minded that are very relevant, 85 00:08:22.639 --> 00:08:24.000 like the one in the many, what is that? What 86 00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:26.000 does that matter? The law of identity, all these kinds 87 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:28.879 of things. But before we do that, let's, uh, Jim, 88 00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:31.240 I'll introduce yourself because we've had a lot of new people. 89 00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:33.120 I think last time you were here we were at 90 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:35.720 fifty thousand, so we're almost at sixty. So it got 91 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:38.320 almost ten thousand new So tell everybody about you and 92 00:08:38.399 --> 00:08:40.080 then what's up? All right? 93 00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:43.519 My name is Jimbob. I'm a satirical cartoonist. I'm a 94 00:08:43.879 --> 00:08:49.679 weekly contributor to The Washington Examiner and author of Savage Means, 95 00:08:49.759 --> 00:08:55.120 Volume one and volume two, which features a Courunka time capsule. 96 00:08:56.399 --> 00:08:59.399 I'm glad that Kurunka happened because it gave me a 97 00:08:59.600 --> 00:09:03.240 delay production time, and it enabled me to include a 98 00:09:03.320 --> 00:09:08.159 lot of ridiculousness that we all shared in the last 99 00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:12.639 couple of months. So yeah, I'm you know, I'm new 100 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:20.840 to back to theism after fifteen year hedonistic, atheistic, relativist 101 00:09:21.679 --> 00:09:28.720 stunt in LA and very new to philosophy and logic, 102 00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:33.000 you know, like properly, you know, just just really getting 103 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:37.120 into it. And I just absolutely love it. And Jay, 104 00:09:38.120 --> 00:09:41.440 You've been a big influence on me in that regard. 105 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:47.559 Hey, man, I'm honored you are a stellar comedian, a 106 00:09:47.720 --> 00:09:50.879 stellar wit. I mean, the memes that you put out. 107 00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:54.080 I'm envious of the skill that you have in memory. 108 00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:56.480 I wish I was as good as you putting all 109 00:09:56.519 --> 00:09:59.120 that stuff out. So you're using your logic in the 110 00:09:59.240 --> 00:10:03.000 right way in terms of affecting the culture. So yes, 111 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:05.320 the last few times we talked, well, last time we 112 00:10:05.399 --> 00:10:08.240 were just clowning around on the fifty k stream. But 113 00:10:08.559 --> 00:10:11.320 now we want to talk about maybe stuff that's a 114 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:13.519 little more serious. And I think the previous two streams 115 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:15.279 that you and I did they were fairly serious. We 116 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:18.039 talked about you know, Darwinism, pan sperm, you know, these 117 00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:23.200 kind of stupid ideas, materialism, metaphysics. Where do you want 118 00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:25.440 to start? I think the last the first thing that 119 00:10:25.480 --> 00:10:29.200 you had brought up was something like the simulation theory 120 00:10:29.399 --> 00:10:32.159 or no multiverse, which we want to start with, and 121 00:10:32.240 --> 00:10:33.559 we can we can launch off into that. 122 00:10:33.639 --> 00:10:37.200 I guess we can start there. I mean multiverse, simulation theory, 123 00:10:38.720 --> 00:10:45.480 why use of logic you know, contrasts or conflicts with 124 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:50.399 the theory itself and why it's a problem, and uh, 125 00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:53.799 you know, I just got into certain not full debates, 126 00:10:53.919 --> 00:10:56.919 just like you know, banter back and forth, and that 127 00:10:57.039 --> 00:11:00.360 came up and it seemed pretty clear to me. But 128 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:03.039 I also just I also ask you these things to 129 00:11:03.159 --> 00:11:08.679 get to the real root philosophically and logically, to see 130 00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:13.440 if I'm on track so far as discerning why it 131 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:15.799 doesn't work well, like why it doesn't work at all. 132 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:19.399 And so as you said it, I think you believe. 133 00:11:19.799 --> 00:11:21.480 I don't know if that was the question you said it, 134 00:11:21.919 --> 00:11:24.879 it violates the law of identity. Was that that question? 135 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:26.039 Was that the case? 136 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:29.519 Yeah? So, and let me remind the audience too that 137 00:11:29.679 --> 00:11:33.080 if you if you see the link that I put 138 00:11:33.159 --> 00:11:35.519 up multiple times. So obviously we don't have super chats 139 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:37.799 here anymore directly on my channel, but if you do 140 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:40.240 want to ask us questions and super chat, you do 141 00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:42.480 it through stream Labs. So there's the stream labs link 142 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:46.360 and that'll all be should come up on the screen, 143 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:48.679 you know, that little gay running dude should pop up. 144 00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:54.679 See that bunch of nonsense. Jennifer. What's up, Jennifer? She 145 00:11:54.919 --> 00:11:57.200 she donated sometimes it works. There we go, she sent 146 00:11:57.279 --> 00:12:00.559 twenty Yes, there we go. So get the super chat 147 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:02.799 turn a minute, and of course you can ask a 148 00:12:02.919 --> 00:12:04.600 question there. You don't have to just donate. You can 149 00:12:04.679 --> 00:12:07.159 type in your question or whatnot. But shout out to 150 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:10.399 Jennifer for that twenty dollars. So, yeah, that's a good 151 00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:13.320 place to start. Let's start with. Okay, so simulation theory 152 00:12:13.320 --> 00:12:15.480 everybody's talking about, or there was a multiverse. I've already 153 00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:16.039 forgotten what we did. 154 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:19.600 It was simulation. And actually I'll just start with also, 155 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:22.279 you know, I just posted that on the on my 156 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:24.759 Instagram account that that was going to be, uh, one 157 00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:29.559 of the the things we're discussing, and someone said, you know, 158 00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:32.639 I they were like, simulation theories real, and I said, no, 159 00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:35.679 it's not. And then he said that's something a simulation 160 00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:38.360 would say, and I said, you wouldn't know what a 161 00:12:38.440 --> 00:12:41.440 simulation would say unless you knew you were standing outside 162 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:43.720 of it. Yeah, because I think that really gets to 163 00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:47.360 the crux of it is that, at least from my perspective, 164 00:12:47.799 --> 00:12:51.720 just using very basic reasoning, is that you could never 165 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:53.960 you'd always have to appeal outside of it, like a 166 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:57.480 lot of things like you know, how would you know, 167 00:12:57.960 --> 00:13:00.120 how would you know you were outside of it? How 168 00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:03.039 do you know the simulation isn't three simulations or a 169 00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:07.440 thousand and so that's just very basic level starting point 170 00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:09.840 for me, where I'm like, you know, it's just endless 171 00:13:09.919 --> 00:13:10.759 regress in a way. 172 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:13.639 Yeah. The easiest way to refute this one, and this 173 00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:16.519 is a common one that you see kind of we 174 00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:18.120 live in the matrix, you know, if you go to 175 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:20.600 philosophy one on one dudes ask this question. If you 176 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:23.360 think about this, we'll break out the whiteboard here. So 177 00:13:23.480 --> 00:13:27.639 let's take this proposition reality is illusory. Right, So it's 178 00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:31.600 a universal claim. It's a claim about all states of affairs. 179 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:34.639 Everything is an illusion. We all live in the matrix. 180 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:38.279 These are what are called universal claims universal statements, and 181 00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:40.960 whenever you put in every or an all in front 182 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:44.240 of something, that's called a universal quantifier and logic, and 183 00:13:44.360 --> 00:13:48.720 that is a really strong, vast claim. It's a claim that, 184 00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:52.840 I mean, there's a lot of weight behind this. This 185 00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:56.159 is not like saying, you know, I think you know, 186 00:13:57.320 --> 00:14:02.639 I think Paul McCarty might be you know, a clone, right, 187 00:14:02.799 --> 00:14:07.399 I think Jennifer Garner was in the CIA. 188 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:07.799 Right. 189 00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:11.200 These are really strong claims because they they are about 190 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:15.159 universal state of affairs. So if we think about reality 191 00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:19.200 is illusory, main, the easiest you've hit on it, You've 192 00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:21.399 said it, right. The easiest way to refute this kind 193 00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:24.320 of basic level mistake is to just point out that 194 00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:28.320 if that's the case, we're going to do a reduct yo, right, 195 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:31.440 reductio ad absurdum. That is one of the strongest ways 196 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:36.720 to refute things is to reduce the position to absurdity 197 00:14:36.919 --> 00:14:42.559 reductio ad absurdum. So the position reduces to pure absurdity. 198 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:46.879 It's self contradictory at a fundamental level. And so we're 199 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:50.200 going to say that this proposition is a reductio adum. 200 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:52.600 Why is that the case. Well, the easiest way to 201 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:54.200 show that is to just point out that if all 202 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:58.039 of reality is illusory, then this truth came to you 203 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:02.399 via your experience of reality. So this truth proposition is 204 00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:05.799 also part of the illusion and therefore self refuting. It's 205 00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:09.000 that easy. So at a fundamental level, it just breaks 206 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:13.759 down to nonsense. And so this is a metaphysical nonsense claim. 207 00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:17.720 And likewise, it also relates to epistemology because it says 208 00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:21.320 reality is, so it's a predicating a state of affairs 209 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:25.240 to something in the world. So it's a pistemology as well. 210 00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:28.480 And we're not directly dealing with ethics, but you could 211 00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:30.960 flesh out ethical implications from this. 212 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:37.320 Right And then, I mean, the simulation could just as 213 00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:40.399 easily be called metaverse in a way. It's just these 214 00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:43.240 kind of wider terms. I was having a conversation with 215 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:47.039 someone who was actually a theist and then returned back 216 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:50.799 to I mean, you know resting on atheism now, and 217 00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:54.480 I was confronting him about logic and how it's not 218 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:57.960 justified under his worldview, and then he went into the 219 00:15:58.279 --> 00:16:01.120 kind of the dilla Honey and many others go down 220 00:16:01.159 --> 00:16:04.759 this route where they start questioning whether logic is even absolute. 221 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:07.919 There could be a universe where it doesn't exist, doesn't 222 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:11.559 apply the same way as well as mathematics and other 223 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:17.360 absolutes that we use today to discern and apprehend truth 224 00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:21.960 and reality. And I thought about that, and because I'm visual, 225 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:25.720 I explained to him that if you draw a circle 226 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:30.480 and the circle is our universe, what we know how 227 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:36.039 we get to know those things logic, reasoning, and you're 228 00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:41.799 able to actually locate this other universe that doesn't operate 229 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:45.440 the same way, you wouldn't be able to actually locate it, 230 00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:51.360 isolate it unless it then suddenly was in pulled inside 231 00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:54.039 that first circle. I just said, So, in other words, 232 00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:57.240 you'd have to use you'd have to appeal to logic 233 00:16:57.360 --> 00:16:59.320 and reasoning and all of the laws we know to 234 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:05.400 even earn another universe that doesn't operate the same way. 235 00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:10.000 But by default you're pulling that universe into our existence. 236 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:10.640 You know what I mean? 237 00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:15.759 And that was a way that visually kind of refuted 238 00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:18.319 him because he couldn't have an answer because the only 239 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:21.640 way to get an answer is to assume what we've 240 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:26.000 been given logic and reasoning, and you just can't. The 241 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:28.319 only way they could be right about a multiverse is 242 00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:33.920 if you could never know it exists at all. That's 243 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:37.119 the only way it could exist. But you could never 244 00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:42.359 get to it because you're pulling it into our paradigm. 245 00:17:43.559 --> 00:17:45.240 And so that kind of made sense to me, and 246 00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:47.039 I was like, oh, that was an eat. That was 247 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:50.039 a pretty easy way to kind of just keep that 248 00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:53.359 theory in its place, like in the here and now, 249 00:17:53.559 --> 00:17:56.200 because a lot of times those arguments and theories go 250 00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:59.039 down to the basement where people are smoking bonds and 251 00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:04.400 they just go they never take a strict logical, you know, 252 00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:08.119 ridicule approach to it, and then because that would be 253 00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:09.799 over and then the party would be over, and then 254 00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:11.680 be like, why are you ruining my high dude? 255 00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:14.839 Exactly right, let's break this down. This is an easy way. 256 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:16.480 This is a good way to go about this is 257 00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:19.519 just look at this ridiculous phrase and claim, and we'll 258 00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:22.759 notice how many, how many, how easy it is to 259 00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:30.480 debunk this. So let's take the proposition reality is illusion reality. Okay, 260 00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:35.799 this is what exactly right? The phrase assumes already some 261 00:18:35.960 --> 00:18:38.839 kind of metaphysics, some kind of statement of existence, that 262 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:41.440 things are out there they have being, or or even 263 00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:43.400 if you think that everything is just a manifestation of 264 00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:48.519 your mind, or maybe everything is a manifestation of my butt. Right, 265 00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:50.519 could all of reality just be a man? Why does 266 00:18:50.559 --> 00:18:53.319 it have to be my mind? Why is mind higher 267 00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:56.039 than butt on the scale of reality? Right on the 268 00:18:56.119 --> 00:19:00.440 scale the totem pole of being. Maybe butts are higher 269 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:02.839 on the totem pole of being and everything's just upside 270 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:05.160 down and we don't realize it yet. But we don't 271 00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:08.160 know because we're just assuming. Right, we're starting with something 272 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:11.480 that we think is an easy place to ground and 273 00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:15.039 start everything. Oh reality, We all know what reality is, really, 274 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:19.480 do we? I mean, philosophers have been debating reality for millennia. 275 00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:23.119 Do we all have a common sense idea of what 276 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:26.319 reality is? I don't think we do, because what reality 277 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:29.920 is is going to be. It's going to be determined 278 00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:31.759 by our worldview as a whole. 279 00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:32.559 Right. 280 00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:36.079 That's why if you're a rank materialist, you have a 281 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:39.119 different worldview from a person who's a theist. Right matter, 282 00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:44.119 reality is different, you think it's two different things. Is 283 00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:46.880 And by the way, if there's a multiverse, then there 284 00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:50.400 actually is a whole dimension that's just butt. I mean, 285 00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:53.359 there's literally everything. There's a whole fart dimension, right, Yeah, 286 00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:55.839 literally the whole dimension is farts. There's also a dimension 287 00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:58.079 where it's just me and a part. There's also a 288 00:19:58.160 --> 00:19:59.759 dimension of me, you and a fart and a butt 289 00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:05.039 on ad infinitum. And then let's look at is is 290 00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:09.799 a statement of predication in terms of you know, sentences, 291 00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:14.000 it's also a statement of being here. So ironically, what 292 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:15.759 the people who say this kind of stuff, they don't 293 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:20.119 realize that this is more than just a sentence. It's 294 00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:22.920 also making a sentence about a state of affairs or 295 00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:25.240 a state of being. It's assuming again that something exists, 296 00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:27.799 even if you think that it's just your mind, it's 297 00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:31.599 still saying that something has this feature, has this property. 298 00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:34.319 It is right. 299 00:20:35.640 --> 00:20:37.359 And then when we come to the question of the 300 00:20:37.400 --> 00:20:41.160 statement illusion, the problem with this is that in our 301 00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:43.839 common understanding, if we were to use that in like 302 00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:47.279 a colloquial sense of illusion, I mean, you could debate 303 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:50.119 what illusions are, but in the colloquial sense. If you're 304 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:52.680 going to try to convey meaning with this sentence, most 305 00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:57.960 people think of illusion as contrasted to the real. Right, Well, now, 306 00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:05.319 wait a minute, reality is contrasted to the real. That 307 00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:10.200 makes no sense, you see it, right, So once again 308 00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:12.519 we see that at a fundamental level, this not only 309 00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:16.480 assumes so many things that it hasn't justified. It's really 310 00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:22.519 just nonsense speak. It's just gibberish. Right, And beyond this, 311 00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:25.799 we could also deconstruct this on a grammar or a 312 00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:30.440 philosophy of language level. Right, we're looking at the statement 313 00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:32.559 as it is here in terms of assuming that it 314 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:35.400 actually is telling us something true about some world or 315 00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:37.920 some existence or some state of affairs. We could also 316 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:41.920 deconstruct this at a linguistic sentence level, right, because this 317 00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:44.440 is some guy in your philosophy class who just watched 318 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:48.039 the matrix and smoke some you know, DMT, Right, he 319 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:52.000 thinks reality is illusion. Wait a minute, bro, if you're 320 00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:55.440 going to make a meaningful statement like that, let's boil 321 00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:58.200 this down and let's do you realize that you're assuming 322 00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:01.960 that words have meaning. That's actually a prior assumption to 323 00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:06.119 the actual statement of metaphysics in the sentence, you see. 324 00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:10.480 So he's assuming that the R and the E and 325 00:22:10.599 --> 00:22:13.680 the A and the L and the subject the predicate right, 326 00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:17.720 that these are meaningful things in sentences, you see. 327 00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:20.599 Right, And if he was, if he was going to 328 00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:24.640 be really consistent with his worldview, he would just say 329 00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:29.880 like exactly, and then it would defend it. 330 00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:32.240 I mean, even Kant I think, made a joke about 331 00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:34.400 this that a lot of this kind of stuff is 332 00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:36.519 just farting upwards, meaning from right. 333 00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:40.440 And then you see how the farting upwards is just 334 00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:45.599 uh rampant in all aspects of culture and life, and like, 335 00:22:46.519 --> 00:22:49.640 you know, it's just borrowed, you know, the same ridiculous 336 00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:52.680 self refuting stuff. You know, one of the things that 337 00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:55.480 pissed me off when usually pisses me off when people 338 00:22:55.559 --> 00:22:58.240 get on Joe Rogan. That's why I'm hoping you eventually 339 00:22:58.279 --> 00:23:02.319 get on there, because you actually combat or use logic 340 00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:06.839 and reasoning in a philosophical way to put a lot 341 00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:09.400 of things just at a halt. You just can't run 342 00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:11.640 away with these things. And and there's a lot of 343 00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:18.640 runaway conversations there. And you know when when when Dawkins 344 00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:19.119 was like. 345 00:23:20.559 --> 00:23:25.000 The teaching little children there going to burn in hell 346 00:23:25.160 --> 00:23:29.200 is absolutely immoral, but of. 347 00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:31.200 Course it's okay to eat the children. There's nothing wrong 348 00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:33.440 with the children. There's nothing wrong with touching the butts 349 00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:34.079 and eating children. 350 00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:38.680 And then I'm just like, you know, Joe is you know, 351 00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:41.880 wherever he is, he's not, he's not present. To just 352 00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:44.119 be like, wait, you just you don't you believe in 353 00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:48.680 a universe that's just not basically non existent, just material matter, 354 00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:55.920 infinite void of nothingness, pitiless now pitiless, And then how 355 00:23:55.960 --> 00:23:58.880 could you why you're using the word moral. It's insane 356 00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:02.319 to me, you know, it's absolutely obsane. But they get 357 00:24:02.359 --> 00:24:05.839 away with it. And it's just the one thing that 358 00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:07.799 gets me mad. It's not that they do it, it's 359 00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:10.400 that they there's no one there to just be like wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, 360 00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:11.640 hold on a second. 361 00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:15.400 Right, I think, yeah, don't forget that other there's quite 362 00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:21.039 a wide concatenation of ridiculous worldviews that have appeared. I mean, 363 00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:24.000 Ben Gertzel was on, We're all just a bunch of 364 00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:27.480 molecules in different formations, man, and it's all just chaos 365 00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:31.359 and meaningful. There's nothing more than molecules in motion man 366 00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:35.480 literally what he says right, which is total incoherence. But 367 00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:38.559 the another thing I wanted to point out about simulation 368 00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:42.000 theory itself is, and I have read some stuff on this, 369 00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:45.880 I've looked at different people's analyzes, and when at first 370 00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:53.720 was kind of getting popular around two thousand thirteen fourteen. 371 00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:55.519 I mean, I know it's existed prior to that, but 372 00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:57.839 you started seeing people talk about it on the line. 373 00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:00.839 I heard Joe Rogan mention it back then, and other 374 00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:03.400 people that would be featured at like Ted talks and 375 00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:06.880 this kind of stuff, right, And one of the things 376 00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:10.559 that they proposed was a, oh, there's a study. Some 377 00:25:10.759 --> 00:25:14.400 universities somewhere did a study Dutch or something I don't 378 00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:20.359 know about how they studied how light, you know, moves 379 00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:22.559 in space or something like that, and it has this 380 00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:26.160 sort of phased array or something to it to where 381 00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:29.319 it has actual kind of like structure to it. So 382 00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:33.400 light has a structure to it. Therefore, if all the 383 00:25:33.519 --> 00:25:36.240 reality is kind of known via light, there must be 384 00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:39.920 some kind of like structure. And they said the structure 385 00:25:40.039 --> 00:25:42.920 was similar to the way computers have you know, bits 386 00:25:43.039 --> 00:25:45.680 or whatever, like you know o'sen ones and o's and 387 00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:48.920 ones and osen ones, right, So they were making this analogy. 388 00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:52.599 Oh look, see the binary aspect of computers is very 389 00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:56.359 similar to the structure of how light diffuses or something 390 00:25:56.440 --> 00:25:58.559 like this. That's this was the argument in this paper, 391 00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:02.480 right anyway, point being the way that I interpret that 392 00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:06.720 data is going to be determined by kind of my 393 00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:11.440 again governing assumptions, and so as a theist, for example, 394 00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:15.880 I might just as well assume that the the universe 395 00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:19.519 was created to have these features that are similar between 396 00:26:20.200 --> 00:26:23.920 the way bites and binary work in a computer and 397 00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:28.680 the way we experience the natural tactile world. Right, So 398 00:26:28.920 --> 00:26:31.960 there's nothing about the natural tactile world having this sort 399 00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:36.000 of ordered structure to it that negates that it was 400 00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:40.799 a creator. Similarly, RNA DNA, there's nothing about that that 401 00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:44.920 doesn't demonstrate that there was a creator of the animals 402 00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:48.279 or humans or life, you know, biological life. 403 00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:48.480 Right. 404 00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:51.599 So, in other words, I can have the same data 405 00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:53.599 put in front of me. This in philosophy it's called 406 00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:57.759 the underdetermination of data. Simply having data is not necessarily 407 00:26:57.839 --> 00:27:00.720 going to give you the correct interpretation of that data. 408 00:27:00.759 --> 00:27:03.720 This is again it's a well known notorious problem in 409 00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:07.880 the history of epistemology, and anyone who studies philosophy science 410 00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:11.480 knows about this. So I can just invoke the underdetermination 411 00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:14.319 of data to point out that sim theory itself does 412 00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:17.599 not actually tell you how the universe was constructed. If 413 00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:21.839 it was constructed, but what do all those people say, aliens? Dude, 414 00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:26.279 we're in like aliens, the matrix that the aliens put together. Man, Look, 415 00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:30.920 well what I thought creator was irrational by the way, Oh, 416 00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:32.400 but not if it's aliens, you see. 417 00:27:32.920 --> 00:27:37.759 Yeah. Similarly, dude, there's you know, there's infinite amount of universes, 418 00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:42.279 and there's an infinite amount of possible universes where we exist. 419 00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:45.119 And you're like, well, is it possible that one of 420 00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:50.440 those universes has a creator? God? No, dude, that's crazy. Man, 421 00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:52.000 you're just ruining my high. 422 00:27:51.920 --> 00:27:52.880 Man, right. 423 00:27:54.519 --> 00:27:55.039 Yeah, So. 424 00:27:58.519 --> 00:28:01.880 I was trying to think of it there under We 425 00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:04.079 had a few streams with Father Deacon and and Ayas 426 00:28:04.119 --> 00:28:07.279 where we and I actually mentioned this one to Stefan. 427 00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:13.720 This was one of the problems of epistemology, that what 428 00:28:13.880 --> 00:28:16.640 happens is that you get a theory or you get 429 00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:20.759 a discovery, and it sounds and I mean entirely it 430 00:28:20.799 --> 00:28:23.440 could be true. I don't know. There's also obviously fakery 431 00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:26.519 and science as well. But let's assume that the study 432 00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:30.839 is correct and you get you know, light has this property. 433 00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:33.799 How do you know that light having that property? That's 434 00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:36.119 not going to tell you anything one way or the 435 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:40.799 other about the grand structure of reality as a whole, 436 00:28:40.839 --> 00:28:45.319 per se, right, or the origin of cosmology or the 437 00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:48.319 origin of man. Right, just like when you look at 438 00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:51.680 an earthworm and when you study biology, it doesn't tell 439 00:28:51.720 --> 00:28:56.039 you about what happened millions of years ago supposedly when 440 00:28:56.200 --> 00:29:00.759 this supposedly just popped into existence. So there's all these leaps. 441 00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:03.279 That's the point here, is that under determination of data 442 00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:09.720 is calling out the non sequitor leaps that the science 443 00:29:09.799 --> 00:29:15.000 quote unquote community often does unknowingly or without any reflection. 444 00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:19.240 Or you know, well, look there's similarity between monkey and chimp. 445 00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:22.240 Excuse me, between man and monkey? Right, what is it? 446 00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:26.079 Ninety ninety percent similarity? Therefore it must all be the 447 00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:27.640 common same common ancestor. 448 00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:30.680 Right, Why can't like. 449 00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:35.359 God create two different species with similar DNA? You see? 450 00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:37.359 So in other words, it's really just depending on the 451 00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:38.759 presupposition At the point. 452 00:29:39.160 --> 00:29:42.279 Right, there seems to be like there's the ought the 453 00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:47.279 is ought fallacy, or more technically that was it, the 454 00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:51.960 naturalistic fallacy. Yeah, like it's cousin or whatever it seems 455 00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:54.480 to be an an aught is is ought, and then 456 00:29:54.559 --> 00:29:58.119 there's like an is was fallacy, Like you just you 457 00:29:58.200 --> 00:30:01.160 look at what is and then you just assume what was, 458 00:30:01.720 --> 00:30:07.480 similarly to assuming what ought, and it's all just assuming 459 00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:11.680 based on nothing, like you know, like bird. You know, 460 00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:17.440 people think certain things have the same ancestors because they 461 00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:22.480 have the same functions in their biology, like wings, and 462 00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:24.920 you're just like, no, they have the same functions because 463 00:30:24.920 --> 00:30:28.799 they provide the same advantage to that thing. It doesn't 464 00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:31.400 mean they're connected just because they're you know what I mean. 465 00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:38.559 So yeah, that that yeah that Speaking of the presupposition, 466 00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:41.960 I was in a debate with someone I think is 467 00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:47.319 I think his account name was debate Me, and we 468 00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:50.559 talked about, you know, logic, and I confronted them on 469 00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:52.960 all that. And then this is another question I asked you, 470 00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:56.960 is that when someone you confront someone and they can't 471 00:30:57.119 --> 00:31:00.920 justify logic, but they presuppose it, and they say, well, 472 00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:05.920 you're just presupposing God. And then you get into you know, whatever, 473 00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:13.039 girdles incompleteness and you justify circularity. Is it just a standstill? 474 00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:17.799 Always like, is there any other move when you both 475 00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:24.039 establish that you're both presupposing Because I was under the 476 00:31:24.079 --> 00:31:28.079 impression from his statements that you don't need to justify 477 00:31:28.160 --> 00:31:32.759 a presupposition, like ideally you you move to and you 478 00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:36.000 want to, but you can just leave it there and 479 00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:38.319 that's it. And I was like, maybe I'm you know, 480 00:31:38.359 --> 00:31:42.400 I'm not studied enough to you know, take him on that, 481 00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:45.680 because I just couldn't, I couldn't get past it. I 482 00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:48.640 was just like, yeah, I guess we're at a standstill. 483 00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:51.920 If you're just gonna presuppose logic without justifying it, and 484 00:31:52.039 --> 00:31:58.519 I'm presupposing God to justify logic, then we're both presupposing something. 485 00:31:58.920 --> 00:32:04.240 I just ended with it. My my pre's up supposition 486 00:32:04.680 --> 00:32:07.720 makes logic coherent, makes meaning coherent, makes all these other 487 00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:12.160 things coherent. Yours is just kind of left in the open, 488 00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:14.359 and that is the best I can do. 489 00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:19.240 Great question. This actually comes up a lot, especially in 490 00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:22.240 our discord. We get this one a lot. One thing 491 00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:25.799 what I mentioned was Ernest Hackel. He's another great example 492 00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:29.960 of this fallacy of like similarity and oh, that looks 493 00:32:30.039 --> 00:32:32.559 kind of like this. Therefore common origin, right, everybody knows 494 00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:36.319 that hopefully you know now that this you know famous. 495 00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:42.359 He was basically the Darwin Darwin's evangelist to Europe is 496 00:32:42.440 --> 00:32:44.519 what he's known about, Ernest Hackel, And he was exposed 497 00:32:44.559 --> 00:32:47.200 as a huge fraud because he actually just made up 498 00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:50.720 the drawings of the zygoats. So he actually doctored the 499 00:32:50.839 --> 00:32:53.759 zygos to make them all look the same, to say, oh, look, 500 00:32:54.319 --> 00:32:58.039 the zygoat of you know, this reptile is the same 501 00:32:58.119 --> 00:33:00.240 as a human and they look the same. And actually 502 00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:02.680 they don't look the same. But so he lied first 503 00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:05.920 of all. But even the similarities that they have, right, 504 00:33:06.039 --> 00:33:09.200 this has actually been debunked. Nobody believes in ontogeny anymore. 505 00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:13.440 It's just a thing he made up, totally debunked, discarded, 506 00:33:13.559 --> 00:33:15.559 and it was all based on his made up drawings. 507 00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:19.200 So I mean, and that's not one. There's many, many 508 00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:23.640 examples amongst the history of the Darwinists that are are 509 00:33:23.720 --> 00:33:26.119 full of fraud, right hilt down there and all that stuff. 510 00:33:26.200 --> 00:33:31.319 But on the question of coherence. Oh, the other thing 511 00:33:31.319 --> 00:33:32.559 I was going to say is that you can think 512 00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:35.000 about like a penny too like if I find a 513 00:33:35.079 --> 00:33:40.319 penny and it has Abraham Lincoln's you know, image stamped 514 00:33:40.359 --> 00:33:43.799 onto it, I wouldn't therefore conclude that pennies in Abraham 515 00:33:43.839 --> 00:33:46.680 Lincoln come from the same ancestor, you see, right, But 516 00:33:46.759 --> 00:33:50.519 that's how silly. This this you know, morphology is between 517 00:33:51.559 --> 00:33:54.240 the assumption of the assumptions of the tree of life, 518 00:33:54.279 --> 00:33:55.960 basically within the Darwinian scheme. 519 00:33:56.839 --> 00:34:00.200 Yeah, it's it's funny the scribbles you mentioned, because that's like, uh, 520 00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:06.680 it reminds me of like, uh, you know, just like 521 00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:09.119 the idea that you can scribble anything and it looks 522 00:34:09.159 --> 00:34:11.480 like a mad genius like you know journal you know, 523 00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:14.719 like you look at like old scribblings from like you know, 524 00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:16.920 Jordan Peterson where you're just like it. 525 00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:19.519 And then there's a dragon and then and then this 526 00:34:19.880 --> 00:34:23.000 has meaning because you know, there's another snake up there 527 00:34:23.079 --> 00:34:24.320 and they're fighting. 528 00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:27.480 And people are just drawn into the child like wonder 529 00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:29.760 that they once had alone. 530 00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:37.039 Seven Miles the West is the best exactly chicken style, right, 531 00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:38.880 like just Jim Morrison's. 532 00:34:38.440 --> 00:34:42.559 Just yeah, exactly, just saying stuff ejaculations of nonsense. That's 533 00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:43.480 how I'm gonna get them. 534 00:34:43.519 --> 00:34:46.320 I'm just gonna make a maps of meaning out of 535 00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:50.000 doodles and then and then I'll sell out stadiums. 536 00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:58.199 Okay, So back to your question, what happens when people say, well, 537 00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:00.360 if you have presuppositions, I have presubsisition as the reread 538 00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:03.599 to standstill because we all have presubositions and we just 539 00:35:03.719 --> 00:35:07.239 chose different ones. Actually, we did not choose different ones, 540 00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:13.039 so we're both choosing presubsitions. You could say, I mean 541 00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:15.960 some of them were forced to. We don't necessarily choose them, 542 00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:19.079 although you could choose theoretically bad presubpositions, I guess. But 543 00:35:19.639 --> 00:35:23.880 for people who are not intentionally being incoherent, we all 544 00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:28.719 kind of are forced to some similar presubositions or approaches 545 00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:29.480 to things. 546 00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:29.920 In the world. 547 00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:33.079 And this is why, for one, you don't actually have 548 00:35:33.239 --> 00:35:37.039 to refute every worldview. This is another common question that 549 00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:38.920 people ask. It's like, well, how do you know that 550 00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:42.639 there's not a worldview out there that you haven't heard 551 00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:45.000 yet that doesn't actually have a coherent answer to the 552 00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:48.000 questions that you bring up. Well, that's because when we 553 00:35:48.079 --> 00:35:52.800 look at philosophy and the three disciplines of philosophy right epistemology, ethics, metaphysics, 554 00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:55.280 there's actually a limited number of places that you can 555 00:35:55.360 --> 00:35:58.159 go in each of those you see, So there's not 556 00:35:58.280 --> 00:36:01.400 actually an infinite number of vas of worldviews, there's actually 557 00:36:01.400 --> 00:36:07.039 a very few. There's actually a very few number of 558 00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:11.159 places that you can go within each domain. So, for example, 559 00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:14.199 in metaphysics, right, I could ask basic questions like we 560 00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:17.000 started this show off with, like how do we know 561 00:36:17.079 --> 00:36:18.320 reality isn't just an illusion? 562 00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:18.599 Right? 563 00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:22.199 So we're asking a question about metaphysics that that we're 564 00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:24.239 actually limited in how many places we could go. Right, 565 00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:26.599 we could say it's either illusory or in some sense 566 00:36:26.679 --> 00:36:29.800 it's real or not illusory. Right, there's two options there. Well, 567 00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:32.519 once we say that it's real, we're again limiting the 568 00:36:32.599 --> 00:36:34.719 number of commitments and places that we can go. In 569 00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:37.119 the next step and we say, well, there's all reality 570 00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:40.760 matter or is it also matter in something else? 571 00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:41.119 Right? 572 00:36:42.159 --> 00:36:45.559 If all reality is matter, then we're reduced again back 573 00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:51.079 to contradictory fundamental presubsitional mistakes. So we can't go with 574 00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:53.599 pure materialism, and the same will go with ethics. Right, 575 00:36:53.679 --> 00:36:55.920 you have to have there's a limited number of steps. 576 00:36:56.239 --> 00:36:59.239 And if you say ethics, all ethics is relative or 577 00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:02.760 it's not relative, right either? Ors here, if all ethics 578 00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:06.079 is relative, then there's again nothing ethical and everything is 579 00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:09.119 just subjective taste that's self reputing. So we know that 580 00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:13.519 there are objective truths or ethics in some sense, therefore 581 00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:16.599 we move in that. So there's again limited numbers of 582 00:37:16.679 --> 00:37:19.280 ways that each of the branches can even go. So 583 00:37:19.480 --> 00:37:22.480 there's actually not an infinite number of world views. Now 584 00:37:22.519 --> 00:37:26.840 there's variations down the line in terms of world views 585 00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:30.880 with crazy stuff like, oh, I believe the Jim Jones 586 00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:34.519 worldview that the universe is literally a fart. That's what 587 00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:36.559 he said. By the way, that's actually the Jim Jones, 588 00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:40.559 this Jim Jones apologetics. It fits in well with our 589 00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:44.400 original drawing that we had that the fart universe. But 590 00:37:44.840 --> 00:37:46.639 even in the Jim Jones world view, that was a 591 00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:48.400 thing that was something that he proposed kind of down 592 00:37:48.440 --> 00:37:50.079 the line, right, So there was all these other things 593 00:37:50.119 --> 00:37:52.039 that like he believed in you had to do this, 594 00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:55.320 you have to do there's objective truth and it's whatever 595 00:37:55.400 --> 00:37:57.039 Jim Jones says this kind of stuff. 596 00:37:57.079 --> 00:37:57.199 Right. 597 00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:00.760 So again, even if it's the craziest cult, there's still 598 00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:04.360 a basic fundamental structure and pattern to that system or 599 00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:06.599 that worldview, and that's going to be the case for anybody. 600 00:38:07.159 --> 00:38:09.440 Every human being is limited in the number of places 601 00:38:09.519 --> 00:38:12.800 that they can go in their worldview. So when we're 602 00:38:12.880 --> 00:38:17.119 engaging with a guy who says, well, whatever, dude, like, 603 00:38:17.599 --> 00:38:19.679 you know, you have your presupposition of God and that's 604 00:38:19.719 --> 00:38:22.039 a circle. I have my presupposition of what did you say, 605 00:38:22.119 --> 00:38:23.559 logic and that's a circle. 606 00:38:23.960 --> 00:38:25.559 Yeah, okay, so logic. 607 00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:29.079 Our presubposition of God is the presubosition of logic. So 608 00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:31.079 so in our system we kind of have if you 609 00:38:31.239 --> 00:38:32.760 if you think of it as a web or it 610 00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:36.400 will say the web, will put God here in the middle, 611 00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:39.480 will put all of the other things that extend out 612 00:38:39.519 --> 00:38:43.440 of the presupposition on the web of beliefs here at 613 00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:48.840 the federal web. Real quick, so we've got we'll say, 614 00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:50.440 at the center of the web, just for the sake 615 00:38:50.480 --> 00:38:52.320 of analogy, here we'll say God. And then we've got 616 00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:55.079 things out here like we've got logic, we've got ethics, 617 00:38:55.159 --> 00:38:59.400 we've got you know, belief in things like mathematics. Uh, 618 00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:03.519 you know they're the external world love, right, I mean 619 00:39:03.559 --> 00:39:05.119 you could you put anything out here that you that 620 00:39:05.239 --> 00:39:08.760 are part of your web of beliefs. Okay, Now, in 621 00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:12.199 this structure. What we're looking at is that this system 622 00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:15.960 will be coherent, not just because we are saying that 623 00:39:16.119 --> 00:39:17.440 God is at the center of it. 624 00:39:17.639 --> 00:39:17.719 Right. 625 00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:20.599 We're not saying, oh, it's true because God and God 626 00:39:20.679 --> 00:39:23.400 says it's true. What we're saying is that all of 627 00:39:23.480 --> 00:39:27.519 this coheres in a sensible way as an entire system. 628 00:39:27.559 --> 00:39:28.800 And by the way, that doesn't mean that we know 629 00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:32.639 everything about the system, because actually no system can tell 630 00:39:32.679 --> 00:39:35.159 you everything about the system. Right, So let's say that 631 00:39:35.599 --> 00:39:38.880 we'll use M here, right, We'll put M at different 632 00:39:38.920 --> 00:39:42.360 places in the system for for mystery. Right, there are 633 00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:45.639 aspects of reality which are mysterious. We might make discoveries, 634 00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:48.360 learn new facts and that becomes no longer a mystery. 635 00:39:48.559 --> 00:39:51.400 But there's always some aspect of mystery within any system. 636 00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:54.159 That doesn't mean that the system as a whole is incoherent, 637 00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:57.079 because we could have a system where mystery is actually 638 00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:00.719 a component in the system. May not be everything, but 639 00:40:00.840 --> 00:40:03.039 it can be a component. And by the way, guess what, 640 00:40:03.280 --> 00:40:06.760 that's a feature of everybody's worldview. Everybody's worldview, because of 641 00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:12.719 human limitations, necessarily has some degree of paradox, limitation, finitude, 642 00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:16.119 and mystery. It's impossible. So that's actually a little game 643 00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:18.800 that atheist will play. Oftentimes we'll try to say, well, 644 00:40:18.800 --> 00:40:22.519 if you can't explain every single thing to me right here, 645 00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:25.679 right now, bro, I don't have to believe your worldview. 646 00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:28.039 Oh really, well, then I don't also have to believe 647 00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:31.159 your worldview because nobody can do that. That's an irrational, 648 00:40:31.239 --> 00:40:35.880 impossible requirement. So what we're looking for is a again, coherence. 649 00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:40.400 What does coherence have? Assumptions? Absolutely it does. But again, 650 00:40:40.480 --> 00:40:43.760 what we're arguing is that it's a thing that's unavoidable. Right, 651 00:40:43.960 --> 00:40:47.400 It's kind of like those other basic things that metaphysics 652 00:40:47.480 --> 00:40:50.320 or ethics. Once we deny those, the whole thing falls apart. 653 00:40:51.159 --> 00:40:55.400 If we deny coherence, which I guess theoretically you could 654 00:40:55.480 --> 00:40:58.320 you could say, well I don't believe in coherence. Well 655 00:40:58.360 --> 00:41:02.280 then you just refuted your own sentence because it requires 656 00:41:02.760 --> 00:41:08.239 different levels of coherence within language, lexicons, definitions, sentenced grammar. Right, 657 00:41:08.280 --> 00:41:10.920 all of those things required coherence. So let's look at 658 00:41:11.119 --> 00:41:13.320 So that's our system. They may not like it, you 659 00:41:13.400 --> 00:41:15.280 may not like it, but that's how it kind of 660 00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:19.719 holds and stands and fits together. But the other system 661 00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:22.760 is going to be different. It's going to have. If 662 00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:27.079 we want to put it as the same model, we'll 663 00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:32.079 put dudebro here at the center of it. And he's 664 00:41:32.159 --> 00:41:33.559 got a web of beliefs. 665 00:41:33.320 --> 00:41:33.800 That he has. 666 00:41:34.360 --> 00:41:36.920 But his web of beliefs are just there, dude, Like, 667 00:41:37.119 --> 00:41:44.679 there's no rational coherence that links logic so called, to 668 00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:51.119 anything else or to him. He might he might try 669 00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:53.320 to say that there's a link between those things, but 670 00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:56.280 he can't actually explain how the two link or relate 671 00:41:56.360 --> 00:41:59.800 together at all. For example, things like causation. Let's take 672 00:41:59.800 --> 00:42:06.039 a us simple thing like causality or ethics or love 673 00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:09.639 or logic. All right, so let's say this was like 674 00:42:09.719 --> 00:42:11.639 a giant cookie with a dude in the middle. It's 675 00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:13.559 not that's a cookie you get at the malls, nasty 676 00:42:13.639 --> 00:42:16.920 mall cookies that are huge. It's a worldview sized cookie 677 00:42:16.960 --> 00:42:19.519 from the mall. Dude. So here's dude bro in the middle. 678 00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:20.800 He's got I. 679 00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:23.960 Believe in logic, Dude, Well, I believe in there's so 680 00:42:24.119 --> 00:42:24.880 caind of ethics. 681 00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:25.039 Bro. 682 00:42:25.559 --> 00:42:27.400 I believe in cause and effect. 683 00:42:27.559 --> 00:42:27.800 Dude. 684 00:42:28.199 --> 00:42:32.239 I believe in numbers. There's like numbers or whatever. Oh, 685 00:42:32.320 --> 00:42:35.440 I believe in the love, dude. Love wounds man right, 686 00:42:35.679 --> 00:42:38.840 So you've got a dude bro and just these things. 687 00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:41.880 He says, Okay, this is his world. So what we're 688 00:42:41.920 --> 00:42:45.880 doing here, we're not just saying that God therefore true. 689 00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:52.760 We're saying, let's compare this worldview to this one. This 690 00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:55.480 one again, we may not like it, but we're not 691 00:42:55.599 --> 00:42:57.559 here to pick out which ones we like. 692 00:42:57.719 --> 00:42:58.960 That has nothing to do with I mean, there's a 693 00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:00.119 lot of things we don't like, but that is mean 694 00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:02.519 that they're not true or that they're not facts. Right, 695 00:43:03.360 --> 00:43:05.599 But this one doesn't even get off the ground. Because 696 00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:08.800 let's say that there is causation. How does this dude 697 00:43:08.840 --> 00:43:11.239 have any connection to or know what causation is in 698 00:43:11.320 --> 00:43:13.840 the external world? How does he know there's an external world? 699 00:43:13.880 --> 00:43:16.599 How does he know who dude bro is? Is dudebro? 700 00:43:16.760 --> 00:43:19.039 Even a self? We don't even know this yet. What 701 00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:21.000 is a self? Where does it come from? 702 00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:21.599 Right? 703 00:43:21.679 --> 00:43:26.119 How does there is there a connection between love and ethics, 704 00:43:26.679 --> 00:43:30.679 or between love and logic, or between causation and math. 705 00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:33.599 We don't know, right, But it's just assumed. It's just 706 00:43:33.639 --> 00:43:36.480 stated to be the case. It's all at hoc. And 707 00:43:36.599 --> 00:43:40.719 what you will notice is that constantly these guys will 708 00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:45.239 just refer to it just is Bro. The whole system 709 00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:48.400 will constantly be at hoc at every level, and that's 710 00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:50.239 why you have to constantly call them out on all 711 00:43:50.280 --> 00:43:54.000 these different assertions, right, because it's like, well, just give 712 00:43:54.039 --> 00:43:56.480 me this, this, this, this, this, and my world free 713 00:43:56.559 --> 00:43:59.840 works no any of those things, because all those things 714 00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:03.159 you want me to give you actually only makes sense 715 00:44:03.800 --> 00:44:04.760 in this world view. 716 00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:07.800 Right, And even how you drew it, the logical end 717 00:44:08.079 --> 00:44:11.639 is solubism, which is accurate to the drawing. But I 718 00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:15.079 also noticed that, not that this is an argument for it, 719 00:44:15.519 --> 00:44:18.679 for it being true, but you could take his circle 720 00:44:19.239 --> 00:44:21.599 and anyone's circle who looks like that and put it 721 00:44:21.719 --> 00:44:24.800 in the upper one and it would make sense, yeah exactly. 722 00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:28.360 But you can't put us Jay or Jimbob in his 723 00:44:28.559 --> 00:44:30.599 circle and it makes sense, you know what I mean, right, 724 00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:31.719 And we can't be placed in that. 725 00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:35.440 The sub positional argument is saying that that bottom circle 726 00:44:35.639 --> 00:44:38.679 is just a copy paste rip off of the top circle, 727 00:44:39.079 --> 00:44:41.400 and it's trying to get rid of the centerpiece of 728 00:44:41.480 --> 00:44:45.000 that circle. Put himself in there in the god position, right, 729 00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:46.320 do Bros? The God? 730 00:44:46.519 --> 00:44:46.639 Right? 731 00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:47.159 Right? 732 00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:50.519 That's why I always uh when I argue I don't 733 00:44:50.679 --> 00:44:53.880 skip right to God. I feel like it's a necessary 734 00:44:54.519 --> 00:44:57.360 step to get to a mind, to connect. 735 00:44:57.400 --> 00:44:59.159 You can have people and go that way. 736 00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:01.920 In terms of the progress, it's a longer it's a 737 00:45:02.039 --> 00:45:04.960 longer move, I guess you would call it. You would say, 738 00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:10.039 but it's like, uh, people general, they just can't refute that. 739 00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:18.800 Concepts and laws and truth, knowledge, reasoning, logic, math, these 740 00:45:18.880 --> 00:45:22.639 things that we can. We can get an atheist to say, no, 741 00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:25.400 we didn't invent these. I admit we didn't invent these. 742 00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:28.920 Some will say they we did invent them. Some say 743 00:45:28.960 --> 00:45:31.599 it's no, it's in our genetics. Man, it's just And 744 00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:34.960 I'm like, where where is truth found in biology? Like 745 00:45:35.119 --> 00:45:39.280 show me truth, Like show me the concept truth, show 746 00:45:39.320 --> 00:45:41.639 me morality in your body. 747 00:45:41.840 --> 00:45:42.000 You know. 748 00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:45.840 But once they admit that their concepts and that their 749 00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:51.480 absolute concepts, they at least, i mean, if they're open 750 00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:53.760 can get to a mind. At least they will go 751 00:45:53.840 --> 00:45:57.400 to aliens, They will go to is it it's ai mind? Maybe? 752 00:45:57.519 --> 00:46:00.519 Then it's like fine, go there, but don't but don't 753 00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:04.400 stay where you're at. Don't stay in that really super 754 00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:08.880 incoherent place without even trying to travel toward coherency or truth, 755 00:46:09.679 --> 00:46:12.599 because that's just the worst place to be in my view, 756 00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:14.800 I feel like that's hell. That's like one of should 757 00:46:14.800 --> 00:46:17.280 have been one of Dante's like layers is where just 758 00:46:17.400 --> 00:46:21.679 like nothing is true, you can't know anything. I mean, 759 00:46:21.760 --> 00:46:24.679 that's that's almost like what we can only imagine, like 760 00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:26.039 dementia is I. 761 00:46:26.079 --> 00:46:29.280 Was gonna say, yeah, something like dementia or madness exactly. Yeah, 762 00:46:29.320 --> 00:46:36.079 it's hilartious, exactly, hilatious fallacious. Boy, Yeah, there was another 763 00:46:36.119 --> 00:46:41.159 way I wanted to kind of present. Uh So the 764 00:46:42.079 --> 00:46:45.119 tag approach. What we're saying with tag, with the transcendent 765 00:46:45.239 --> 00:46:48.920 argument is we're saying that we're not just saying that 766 00:46:49.000 --> 00:46:52.159 there's only circular arguments. We're saying I know you're not 767 00:46:52.239 --> 00:46:55.000 saying this, but what I'm saying to dude brother, uh, 768 00:46:56.159 --> 00:47:00.400 when we say that arguments are ultimately circular, that just 769 00:47:00.519 --> 00:47:04.119 means at a certain level in our systems, it's unavoidable, 770 00:47:04.159 --> 00:47:06.920 that's all it means, right, and that's true for everybody. 771 00:47:07.360 --> 00:47:09.599 So if that's true for everybody, the question, the next 772 00:47:09.719 --> 00:47:12.159 question that arises is, well, how do we reconcile which 773 00:47:12.280 --> 00:47:18.119 systems are real or coherent or meaningful and which ones 774 00:47:18.159 --> 00:47:21.159 aren't that's where the comparison of the systems comes in. 775 00:47:22.159 --> 00:47:24.760 So the only the only way to do it, because 776 00:47:24.760 --> 00:47:27.119 we're not dealing with things that we can compare or 777 00:47:28.159 --> 00:47:32.039 test in a lab. Right, systems belief systems are not 778 00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:35.880 empirical realities. They might encompass empirical realities, but they're not 779 00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:38.679 reducible to empirical reality. So how do we test them. 780 00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:40.440 The only way to do it is what I was 781 00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:43.519 showing you, is to compare the two models. And if 782 00:47:43.599 --> 00:47:49.639 one of those models is fundamentally retarto, then it's not true, right, 783 00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:53.599 because that guy is trying to set forth a system 784 00:47:53.800 --> 00:47:59.880 that's not retarto that is better or refutes our system, right. 785 00:48:01.119 --> 00:48:03.199 And that's what you have to understand is that arguing 786 00:48:03.239 --> 00:48:06.920 at a systems level is not exactly the same as 787 00:48:07.159 --> 00:48:11.599 arguing at a kind of normative factual level. And this 788 00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:13.719 is why this is so difficult for people in the 789 00:48:13.880 --> 00:48:16.960 science sphere, is that they're not used to thinking at 790 00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:18.519 a meta level, right. 791 00:48:18.800 --> 00:48:23.440 Which is which is bizarre because they're borrowing models, kind 792 00:48:23.480 --> 00:48:27.519 of coherency theory to make material claims. They're like taking 793 00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:30.440 those things and they're like, well, we can just draw 794 00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:33.000 a couple of circles and then and then just that 795 00:48:33.199 --> 00:48:35.320 makes sense out there in the universe, and it's like, 796 00:48:35.480 --> 00:48:39.280 well that, you know, that's a tricky thing too, where 797 00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:41.719 you're borrowing. I mean, I don't know if they're aware 798 00:48:41.760 --> 00:48:43.039 that they're doing it now they are. 799 00:48:47.559 --> 00:48:51.880 I mean I'm at like countless for you know PhDs 800 00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:55.360 in my many years of college and grad school that 801 00:48:57.519 --> 00:48:59.199 I mean that part of the reason for that is 802 00:48:59.239 --> 00:49:03.039 the specialization. You know, the guy who studies astronomy, he 803 00:49:03.079 --> 00:49:05.760 doesn't know anything about logic at all, like you not 804 00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:09.159 know one thing or something, but he doesn't mean you mean, 805 00:49:10.039 --> 00:49:12.360 any of them. I'm saying, like, forget the big pop 806 00:49:12.519 --> 00:49:14.079 famous ones. Like if you were to go to your 807 00:49:14.119 --> 00:49:16.440 average university and you were to go and sit down 808 00:49:16.480 --> 00:49:21.320 and interview the you know, biology professor, the you know 809 00:49:21.400 --> 00:49:26.880 astronomy professor, you would find them constantly making basic level 810 00:49:26.920 --> 00:49:30.440 fallacies that they don't they don't know anything about this stuff. Yeah. 811 00:49:30.480 --> 00:49:35.599 And then partly because the education system is intentionally compartmentalized, 812 00:49:35.639 --> 00:49:37.480 that's part of the part of it, right. I mean 813 00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:39.320 you can get a PhD in biology and never have 814 00:49:39.400 --> 00:49:43.199 a logic class. Yeah, so they don't know what you're 815 00:49:43.239 --> 00:49:45.320 talking about. They have no idea why this even. They 816 00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:48.679 just think this is like like they view it like 817 00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:51.000 science fiction, like you're just making up stuff. 818 00:49:51.239 --> 00:49:54.679 That's right, metaphysics they you know, like you once said, 819 00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:57.000 they've purposely put the books next Yeah, like in the 820 00:49:57.079 --> 00:50:00.960 bar like you know, crystal head dress. 821 00:50:01.199 --> 00:50:05.119 Yeah, how to how to use your menstrual cycle? Which magic? 822 00:50:05.239 --> 00:50:06.920 You know that that's what they think metaphysics is. 823 00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:09.360 Yeah, I had to speaking of that. I had a 824 00:50:09.440 --> 00:50:13.599 roommate once in La that uh put her menstrual cycle 825 00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:18.039 in my garden without asking, So I wasn't joking. 826 00:50:18.440 --> 00:50:20.320 I mean you will find books like that in the 827 00:50:20.639 --> 00:50:22.360 in the parts. And by the way, what's up. We 828 00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:24.719 got almost four hundred nerds in the house tonight. Welcome everybody. 829 00:50:25.280 --> 00:50:27.639 This is j DR JS ANDWLS when we're interviewing made 830 00:50:27.679 --> 00:50:29.960 by Jim Bob. I've got his link below if you 831 00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:33.679 want to check out his savage ass memes. And it 832 00:50:33.800 --> 00:50:36.159 was word solid Yeah, thank you exactly. It's always just 833 00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:39.119 words showed brow. Yeah, but it's not words slid when 834 00:50:39.199 --> 00:50:42.000 Darwin has make up all this nonsense like ontogeny, right, 835 00:50:42.280 --> 00:50:44.840 that's a totally made up word from Ernest Takele by 836 00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:48.199 his made up diary where he's making up nonsense doodles. 837 00:50:48.760 --> 00:50:51.079 Oh but that's science, you see, but not what we're 838 00:50:51.119 --> 00:50:55.719 talking about. So yeah, so circular arguments are unavoidable, but 839 00:50:55.840 --> 00:50:59.400 sometimes you do have to kind of like uh, wade 840 00:50:59.440 --> 00:51:02.559 through the dirt or the weeds to get people to, 841 00:51:02.840 --> 00:51:05.880 like you said, kind of think about basic concepts. I 842 00:51:05.960 --> 00:51:10.360 agree with you that in practice in terms of what's 843 00:51:10.480 --> 00:51:14.360 more advantageous out in the field, so to speak, is 844 00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:17.679 not to necessarily immediately jump to like really high falutin 845 00:51:17.719 --> 00:51:20.159 theology concepts. You kind of have to start with more 846 00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:23.679 basic philosophy, things that people don't even realize they recognize, 847 00:51:23.800 --> 00:51:26.159 like you said, like mind, And there's nothing wrong within 848 00:51:26.239 --> 00:51:30.159 the argumentation in terms of the logical order starting with 849 00:51:30.239 --> 00:51:33.320 something like mind, or starting with something like causation or 850 00:51:33.360 --> 00:51:37.119 metaphysics or numbers. You can start with all those things 851 00:51:37.199 --> 00:51:39.599 in your logical order. But that doesn't mean that they 852 00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:43.800 have necessarily metaphysical priority. That's a different issue. That's the 853 00:51:44.159 --> 00:51:48.440 problem with classical so called apologetics or classical argumentation and 854 00:51:48.519 --> 00:51:51.559 Thomas Aquinas is that those positions assume, because of a 855 00:51:52.400 --> 00:51:55.360 logical priority, that therefore there must be some sort of 856 00:51:55.440 --> 00:51:59.119 metaphysical priority. But that's a different issue. But that's why 857 00:51:59.159 --> 00:52:02.239 you don't see me make the causal argument, like everything 858 00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:04.320 has a cause, therefore there was a first cause. Therefore 859 00:52:04.320 --> 00:52:07.519 it was God, the God of the Bible. Totally fallacious argument, 860 00:52:07.639 --> 00:52:10.559 terrible argument. But I will say that I can make 861 00:52:10.599 --> 00:52:14.760 a transcendental version of a causal argument. I can say, dude, 862 00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:17.920 you can't reason or do anything in the world or 863 00:52:17.960 --> 00:52:21.440 have any meaningful experience of the world without causation. That's 864 00:52:21.440 --> 00:52:24.480 two different arguments. Does that make sense what I'm saying? 865 00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:28.199 Yeah, yeah, And then and then you have to I mean, 866 00:52:28.800 --> 00:52:33.199 people generally don't wake up, eat their you know, processed 867 00:52:34.920 --> 00:52:39.679 cereal and think about like the unity between immaterial concepts 868 00:52:39.840 --> 00:52:42.840 the mind and the physical world. They just like are like, 869 00:52:43.320 --> 00:52:47.239 how lucky, we just got really lucky here that there's 870 00:52:47.320 --> 00:52:51.559 immaterial in this great explosion or you know, from a 871 00:52:51.679 --> 00:52:57.239 singular moment in time. Also just laws of logic and 872 00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:04.760 number theory and reasoning and that that entire unified you know, 873 00:53:04.960 --> 00:53:08.199 system of three just you know, we just got lucky 874 00:53:08.280 --> 00:53:10.880 with that. And I'm I'm just blows my mind. But 875 00:53:11.239 --> 00:53:13.639 it makes sense that people aren't thinking of that, and 876 00:53:13.760 --> 00:53:15.440 they don't have to deal with it. I think you 877 00:53:15.559 --> 00:53:19.920 were saying, like, what was it since the the Enlightenment? Peeps, 878 00:53:20.039 --> 00:53:21.519 they kind of like we're like, we don't need to 879 00:53:21.559 --> 00:53:25.559 deal with that anymore. We're we're so past that, Like 880 00:53:25.679 --> 00:53:31.000 we're so like just follow Q, you know, and they 881 00:53:31.079 --> 00:53:33.920 just don't have to deal with, you know, justifying the 882 00:53:34.079 --> 00:53:36.719 things that are just you just take them as freebies. 883 00:53:36.880 --> 00:53:38.719 You know. People just take take them. They don't want 884 00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:41.440 to think about them. Sometimes I don't blame them because 885 00:53:41.440 --> 00:53:44.519 you're just like sometimes you're just like, is this just 886 00:53:44.679 --> 00:53:47.360 like it's not a lost cause for me, but explaining 887 00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:51.119 it or prompting people or like stopping people in their 888 00:53:51.199 --> 00:53:54.039 tracks with their thinking, it's like, are they going to 889 00:53:54.239 --> 00:53:58.440 ever spend more than fifteen minutes just just dealing with 890 00:53:58.679 --> 00:54:00.920 that and what that means? 891 00:54:01.760 --> 00:54:05.360 You know, I don't know, right, Yeah, I mean it's 892 00:54:05.480 --> 00:54:08.840 it's a you know, it's like fishing, right, the analogy 893 00:54:08.920 --> 00:54:12.239 that Jesus uses of throwing the net out and you 894 00:54:12.320 --> 00:54:14.079 know you'll catch some, but you won't catch them all. 895 00:54:14.159 --> 00:54:16.920 And you know there's no telling, you know, you don't 896 00:54:17.079 --> 00:54:19.239 we don't know who will be and won't be caught 897 00:54:19.320 --> 00:54:21.639 in the net. But you know, I think a lot 898 00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:25.480 of times people have a hard time believing that academia 899 00:54:25.719 --> 00:54:28.079 because you know, there's they're big, great buildings and they 900 00:54:28.119 --> 00:54:30.280 have big statues of you know, dudes out there, and 901 00:54:30.360 --> 00:54:34.440 it just looks so impressive, and it's so authoritative, and 902 00:54:34.679 --> 00:54:38.159 universities produced like computers and shit, right, so they must 903 00:54:38.239 --> 00:54:40.719 be knowing what they're doing. They don't realize the the 904 00:54:40.880 --> 00:54:45.559 how hollow and shallow and absurd academia actually is. And 905 00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:47.199 if you've been in that world, you know it, you've 906 00:54:47.239 --> 00:54:49.880 seen it firsthand, you know how fake it is. I mean, 907 00:54:49.920 --> 00:54:52.360 I think we're starting to see these other areas of 908 00:54:52.679 --> 00:54:55.079 like Hollywood, you know, and government people are starting to 909 00:54:55.119 --> 00:54:58.719 see how fake and absurd it really is. And guess what, y'all, 910 00:54:58.800 --> 00:55:03.719 it's not that different academia, Okay, because if you're writing 911 00:55:03.800 --> 00:55:05.960 your thesis, for example, right, I mean, in a lot 912 00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:07.760 of unless you're in like a hard science has been 913 00:55:07.880 --> 00:55:10.239 like maybe engineering or math or something like that. I 914 00:55:10.280 --> 00:55:13.880 don't even know. But most of the time you're trying 915 00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:16.119 to write something that will give you, get you a 916 00:55:16.239 --> 00:55:20.239 claim and get you notoriety for a novel thesis, right, 917 00:55:20.840 --> 00:55:24.559 like that Shakespeare was actually a woman. You know this 918 00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:26.920 kind of thing, right, that's the kind of thing that 919 00:55:27.039 --> 00:55:33.039 people are trying to you know, groundbreak with their research 920 00:55:33.119 --> 00:55:36.320 and with their philosophy, or if you're in the philosophy department, 921 00:55:38.199 --> 00:55:41.440 you just kind of have this assumption that, like you said, 922 00:55:41.519 --> 00:55:44.239 Jim Bob, those kinds of questions are the old ones. 923 00:55:44.320 --> 00:55:47.480 We don't do that anymore. It's like fads. It's like, 924 00:55:47.599 --> 00:55:49.760 well that's not in fashion anymore, we don't do that, 925 00:55:50.519 --> 00:55:53.960 which is absurd because I thought this was the domain 926 00:55:54.079 --> 00:55:57.719 of free thought, right, I thought universities promote free thought, 927 00:55:58.400 --> 00:56:04.599 but it's actually the most dogmatic, like atheist, materialist place imaginable. Yeah. 928 00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:07.159 Well, it's also just like how are they going to 929 00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:09.719 get their funding if they're stopped in their tracks with 930 00:56:09.920 --> 00:56:15.119 like logic and philosophical barriers that just debunk and expose 931 00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:15.800 the nonsense. 932 00:56:15.880 --> 00:56:18.400 It's like, you don't care about funding, Jimbob. They're they're 933 00:56:18.760 --> 00:56:21.960 altruistic and they want the truth. And that's why we 934 00:56:22.039 --> 00:56:24.480 need the state to step in so that private entities 935 00:56:24.519 --> 00:56:28.079 don't control education. And if it's the state running things, 936 00:56:28.519 --> 00:56:34.760 then it'll be objective and truthful, right, yeah, totally, I mean, 937 00:56:34.920 --> 00:56:38.280 which is I mean what if the state is owned 938 00:56:38.320 --> 00:56:42.000 by private institutions. But anyway, I mean, that's just retarded. 939 00:56:42.079 --> 00:56:48.119 But uh yeah, I mean, let's look next at before 940 00:56:48.159 --> 00:56:50.079 we do multiverse, because that one will be fun. But 941 00:56:50.599 --> 00:56:53.000 let's look at one and many because this is a 942 00:56:53.079 --> 00:56:57.559 question that you raised, and it's it's really it's maybe 943 00:56:57.599 --> 00:57:00.280 a little abstract for some people. But if we do 944 00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:02.599 not you, but in the audience, if we do grasp it, 945 00:57:02.760 --> 00:57:08.000 this is actually a really fascinating realm of philosophy in 946 00:57:08.119 --> 00:57:12.039 terms of classic questions. Right, So in the history philosophy 947 00:57:12.079 --> 00:57:14.199 in the West especially, but even beyond the West, you 948 00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:18.800 have kind of recurring problems that pop up that are 949 00:57:18.920 --> 00:57:21.880 always being argued and debated. And when we go back 950 00:57:21.920 --> 00:57:25.440 to Plato and Aerosol, even prior to Plato, with the Presocratics, 951 00:57:26.199 --> 00:57:30.639 they start asking this question of what is one thing 952 00:57:30.880 --> 00:57:34.119 versus the class of things? Right, we have a cat 953 00:57:34.320 --> 00:57:36.400 and then we have many cats. What is it that 954 00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:39.400 they share in common that makes them cats catnus? Right, 955 00:57:39.480 --> 00:57:43.800 this kind of stuff, And the Presocratics asked that prior 956 00:57:43.840 --> 00:57:47.559 to Plato, and they tried to solve this big question 957 00:57:47.800 --> 00:57:53.840 with universal claims about reality, about metaphysics, and so some guys, Oh, 958 00:57:53.880 --> 00:58:00.039 everything's fire right, all is fire right, and that that 959 00:58:00.159 --> 00:58:03.320 might sound a little absurd, but you could see, like 960 00:58:03.480 --> 00:58:07.800 if you thought that energy. Fire is energy, and everything 961 00:58:07.840 --> 00:58:09.880 seems to have kind of some kind of energy making 962 00:58:09.920 --> 00:58:12.559 it be or move, So everything must have some kind 963 00:58:12.559 --> 00:58:16.440 of like fireness in some varying degree. Or everything is 964 00:58:16.559 --> 00:58:20.599 water right. Things come out of water right when humans 965 00:58:20.599 --> 00:58:23.280 are born, water breaks, so maybe everything's just water in 966 00:58:23.360 --> 00:58:27.159 different ways, or everything is little atoms. So the ancient 967 00:58:27.199 --> 00:58:29.800 Greeks came up with these theories and they were trying 968 00:58:29.840 --> 00:58:34.599 to explain what everything is with these all encompassing grand 969 00:58:34.719 --> 00:58:39.159 narratives of everything is this. Now when you get to 970 00:58:39.199 --> 00:58:41.280 Plato and Aristotle, they kind of modify it and they 971 00:58:41.320 --> 00:58:42.920 take it to the next level and they say, now 972 00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:46.159 it's not everything's not like, you know, one thing. Although 973 00:58:46.239 --> 00:58:48.280 Plato kind of said everything is one thing, he said 974 00:58:48.280 --> 00:58:51.679 everything's idea, right, not idea in the sense of all 975 00:58:51.679 --> 00:58:54.800 I had a good thought today, but like ideas themselves 976 00:58:54.880 --> 00:58:58.440 have a higher level of existence than the material plane. 977 00:58:58.559 --> 00:59:02.199 That's the Platonic view. But the reason Plato thought this, 978 00:59:02.519 --> 00:59:04.559 and this will help everybody understand this is like the 979 00:59:04.599 --> 00:59:08.280 seven coconuts dilemit that we had the discussion, right, I mean, 980 00:59:08.400 --> 00:59:11.119 what is it that makes something one thing or one 981 00:59:11.199 --> 00:59:15.119 class of things and not that whole class? What picks 982 00:59:15.199 --> 00:59:18.880 out a single thing a singular particular as opposed to 983 00:59:19.440 --> 00:59:23.639 the universal. So this is the question of universals in particulars, 984 00:59:23.719 --> 00:59:26.159 the one and the many. And in the history of 985 00:59:26.199 --> 00:59:30.000 Western philosophy, this is a dialectic. It's usually a tension 986 00:59:30.079 --> 00:59:35.400 between these two between groups and classes and particulars individuals. 987 00:59:37.039 --> 00:59:42.679 But the easiest way to understand why this question kept 988 00:59:42.719 --> 00:59:45.519 being raised is through grammar itself. I just listened to 989 00:59:45.639 --> 00:59:48.400 I'll give you props to a doctor Branson who just 990 00:59:48.440 --> 00:59:52.239 did a show with interview with our friend Lewis, and 991 00:59:52.360 --> 00:59:54.000 they went into the history of the one in the 992 00:59:54.039 --> 00:59:56.400 many in terms of grammar, and a lot of the 993 00:59:56.440 --> 00:59:59.920 ancient Greek grammarians were looking at language and saying well, 994 01:00:00.039 --> 01:00:02.480 in order to explain and talk about the world, language 995 01:00:02.480 --> 01:00:07.159 itself just has this feature of saying the you know, cat, 996 01:00:07.400 --> 01:00:10.639 or so we're picking out a specific cat amongst the 997 01:00:10.719 --> 01:00:13.679 class of beings that would give the title cat, and 998 01:00:13.840 --> 01:00:16.960 we're saying the cat is on the matt. We'll say 999 01:00:17.039 --> 01:00:24.239 here and so cat picks out one of some class 1000 01:00:24.280 --> 01:00:28.880 of beings that all possess the same features. And in 1001 01:00:29.199 --> 01:00:33.239 the ancient mind, in the medieval mind, the essence of 1002 01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:35.440 a cat, or the essence of that thing is more 1003 01:00:35.519 --> 01:00:39.239 than just the properties. There's actually some kind of higher 1004 01:00:39.400 --> 01:00:44.440 level quality that makes that cat a cat, beyond just 1005 01:00:44.639 --> 01:00:48.400 the external whatever Arista will call accidental quality. So just 1006 01:00:48.519 --> 01:00:51.880 having hair, just having two eyes, just having four legs 1007 01:00:51.920 --> 01:00:55.280 and a tail, and you know, eating mice and you 1008 01:00:55.360 --> 01:00:58.039 know walk it being garfield or whatever, those are not 1009 01:00:58.320 --> 01:01:01.119 the features that are the essence. Those are just the 1010 01:01:01.239 --> 01:01:03.840 characteristics or properties of what it is to be a cat. 1011 01:01:04.639 --> 01:01:07.000 So you can begin to see how we're reasoning, and 1012 01:01:07.079 --> 01:01:11.079 we're asking this question. We're saying, what is it that's 1013 01:01:11.159 --> 01:01:17.440 the universal here that's also instantiated in a particular cat, right, 1014 01:01:17.480 --> 01:01:21.159 because we're saying that this particular cat is on the mat, 1015 01:01:21.239 --> 01:01:24.760 it has a spatio temporal location, but at the same 1016 01:01:24.800 --> 01:01:28.719 time it participates in some higher level reality of catness. 1017 01:01:28.920 --> 01:01:29.039 Right. 1018 01:01:29.559 --> 01:01:32.599 That would be both Plato and Aristotle would agree that 1019 01:01:32.719 --> 01:01:39.360 there is some substance or essence that this being possesses. 1020 01:01:40.639 --> 01:01:43.519 And even when we write a sentence, guess what our 1021 01:01:43.599 --> 01:01:46.800 sentence is assuming that to be the case. So the 1022 01:01:46.840 --> 01:01:52.239 Greeks would have said sentences presupposed metaphysics. Right, these things 1023 01:01:52.320 --> 01:01:55.800 must actually be the case in the world. For our words, 1024 01:01:55.920 --> 01:02:00.559 our logos to have meaning, for logos to work, to 1025 01:02:00.639 --> 01:02:05.719 have meaningful expression in dia, logos and dialogue, this metaphysic 1026 01:02:05.840 --> 01:02:09.000 must be the case in the world out there. So 1027 01:02:09.159 --> 01:02:11.199 this is the question. This is one manifestation of the 1028 01:02:11.280 --> 01:02:15.360 question of one in many throughout history, universals in particulars. 1029 01:02:15.400 --> 01:02:19.239 Aristota will call this primary and secondary substance, Right, primary substances, 1030 01:02:19.320 --> 01:02:23.760 the particular that's picked out, secondary substance being the universal 1031 01:02:23.920 --> 01:02:26.519 quality that it's shared in. Now, Aristotle doesn't believe it 1032 01:02:26.639 --> 01:02:31.440 with Plato that the substances are ultimately ideas. He thinks 1033 01:02:31.519 --> 01:02:34.880 that they're actually in the particular objects. So that cat 1034 01:02:35.000 --> 01:02:37.760 possesses the universal essence of cat just as much as 1035 01:02:37.800 --> 01:02:41.480 the next cat possesses the universal essence, and what distinguishes 1036 01:02:41.559 --> 01:02:46.119 them is their particular characteristics of that particular cat, you see. So, 1037 01:02:46.679 --> 01:02:48.760 I mean, that's a lot of rambling, but I'm just 1038 01:02:48.800 --> 01:02:52.880 trying to say that language itself is asking one in 1039 01:02:53.000 --> 01:02:58.159 many questions, right, is asking universal particular level questions. That's 1040 01:02:58.239 --> 01:03:00.480 what the ancients were obsessed with, and that's why you 1041 01:03:00.519 --> 01:03:03.760 could see why they would like mathematics. I mean, mathematics 1042 01:03:03.880 --> 01:03:07.119 is a really easy way to ask that same kind 1043 01:03:07.159 --> 01:03:10.559 of question. And that's why all you know, sentences can 1044 01:03:10.599 --> 01:03:17.559 be translated into you know, logical formulations or even mathematic formulations, 1045 01:03:17.599 --> 01:03:22.159 like you can put sentences into formal logic or into 1046 01:03:22.639 --> 01:03:25.840 even mathematical equations if you wanted to, you just make 1047 01:03:26.280 --> 01:03:29.239 you just make the words stand for you know, numbers. 1048 01:03:29.000 --> 01:03:32.960 Right, I didn't. Didn't Kurt Girdle do that? He said this, 1049 01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:35.559 what do you say the sentence can't be proven? 1050 01:03:35.679 --> 01:03:39.280 Or well he was illustrating. Yeah, he was illustrating the 1051 01:03:40.039 --> 01:03:47.199 the circularity of sets by just showing a paradoxical Girdel's sentence, 1052 01:03:47.360 --> 01:03:49.400 which even some of the ancient Greeks asked that same 1053 01:03:49.519 --> 01:03:52.320 kind of question, they didn't think about it as in 1054 01:03:53.199 --> 01:03:56.280 the to the depth that Gurdell did. Yeah, And all 1055 01:03:56.320 --> 01:03:58.840 Gurdell did was just look at mathematics and point out 1056 01:03:58.920 --> 01:04:01.960 that you know, sets and set theory have a circular 1057 01:04:03.440 --> 01:04:07.360 self referencing they If you're going to explain all reality 1058 01:04:07.400 --> 01:04:08.920 with set theory, it's not going to work, he said 1059 01:04:08.960 --> 01:04:11.800 to Bert and Russell, because the sets ultimately appeal outside 1060 01:04:11.800 --> 01:04:15.679 of themselves, and so you can't have any perfect system 1061 01:04:16.039 --> 01:04:19.039 that's coherent that doesn't appeal outside of his set his 1062 01:04:19.119 --> 01:04:22.559 self in mathematics, so that's a transcendental type of argument 1063 01:04:22.639 --> 01:04:27.079 in math, and what we're doing in the transfer argument 1064 01:04:27.119 --> 01:04:29.199 for God is just taking that type of argument, and 1065 01:04:29.239 --> 01:04:33.320 we're applying it not just to transcendentals and transcendental categories, 1066 01:04:33.519 --> 01:04:36.159 but to God himself is kind of the ultimate transcendental. 1067 01:04:36.239 --> 01:04:40.000 So it's the same form of argument used in different arenas. 1068 01:04:40.679 --> 01:04:45.440 Is Bertrand and Russell's set? What was it? Is? Paradox 1069 01:04:46.000 --> 01:04:50.000 is that related to the one in the many? Do 1070 01:04:50.079 --> 01:04:51.440 you know the one directly? 1071 01:04:52.559 --> 01:04:57.760 So, yeah, he mentioned multiple logical paradoxes, and typically he 1072 01:04:58.039 --> 01:05:03.639 was just pointing out that that they're like inescapable features 1073 01:05:03.679 --> 01:05:06.039 of language. But Russell still thought that you could have 1074 01:05:06.280 --> 01:05:12.119 a perfect mathematical set that explained reality. He thought you could, 1075 01:05:12.760 --> 01:05:17.519 in a reductionist way, reduce all reality to symbolic mathematical 1076 01:05:17.559 --> 01:05:21.039 representations and you could explain all reality that way. Now, 1077 01:05:21.440 --> 01:05:24.440 what Girdell was showing is that actually you can't because 1078 01:05:25.119 --> 01:05:28.159 the set becomes self referencing or reference. It also references 1079 01:05:28.199 --> 01:05:31.920 outside of itself, which is illogical in that strict way. 1080 01:05:32.519 --> 01:05:34.239 And so therefore he's just showing that you can't do 1081 01:05:34.320 --> 01:05:38.679 a reductionist approach to reality. Any reductionist system will have 1082 01:05:38.880 --> 01:05:44.480 that feature. And so Bertrand Russell, being a classical minded empiricist, 1083 01:05:45.559 --> 01:05:48.519 he could not admit that there were either circular arguments 1084 01:05:48.639 --> 01:05:51.400 or that a set had to appeal outside of himself itself. Right, 1085 01:05:51.480 --> 01:05:54.480 So once he did admit that, he kind of it 1086 01:05:54.559 --> 01:05:58.079 doesn't work in his basic presubpositions. So it means you 1087 01:05:58.159 --> 01:06:03.760 can't you can't consistently be a total empiricist. It's it's impossible. 1088 01:06:04.800 --> 01:06:08.280 So when people come up, you know, it'll never end. 1089 01:06:08.519 --> 01:06:13.840 This theory of everything constantly just rehashed and represented in 1090 01:06:13.920 --> 01:06:22.000 new ways. Isn't that mathematical problem that Girdel exposes. Isn't 1091 01:06:22.039 --> 01:06:26.079 that just crushing to anyone who's trying to propose a 1092 01:06:26.800 --> 01:06:32.639 mathematical or you know, you know, physical you know, metaf 1093 01:06:32.960 --> 01:06:39.280 not metaphysical, quantum physics, all that stuff, to reduce all 1094 01:06:39.360 --> 01:06:44.760 of everything to a singular theory mode or whatever. It 1095 01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:49.239 doesn't doesn't the girdles work just go like, well, no, 1096 01:06:49.440 --> 01:06:51.360 you can't because you have to. 1097 01:06:53.079 --> 01:06:55.199 Yeah, there's a good essay that shows, for example why 1098 01:06:56.119 --> 01:06:59.400 it's it's uh Mind's Machines Girdel, and it argues that 1099 01:06:59.440 --> 01:07:04.199 you'll never have self conscious AI because AI is just algorithms. Right, 1100 01:07:04.320 --> 01:07:09.039 So the argument that Gurdell was proposing also applies to AI. 1101 01:07:09.280 --> 01:07:13.199 That that paper argues because AI will never evolve to 1102 01:07:13.320 --> 01:07:17.480 have consciousness because you can't reduce consciousness to something material. 1103 01:07:17.760 --> 01:07:20.760 So the argument assumes that consciousness is material. Right, Oh, 1104 01:07:20.960 --> 01:07:23.760 our consciousness is just you know, matter in motion or whatever. 1105 01:07:23.760 --> 01:07:25.360 And if we figured out the matter in motion and 1106 01:07:25.440 --> 01:07:27.840 we put it into a computer, then we have consciousness. 1107 01:07:28.199 --> 01:07:30.039 But that begs the question, and it just assumes that 1108 01:07:30.119 --> 01:07:34.800 consciousness is matter, but it's not. And that essay argues 1109 01:07:34.880 --> 01:07:38.320 that what Gurdell showed proved that AI will never be 1110 01:07:38.440 --> 01:07:41.760 self conscious. It's absurd, it's stupid. It's just science fiction LARPing. 1111 01:07:41.880 --> 01:07:45.079 But to be clear, though, I mean not everybody who 1112 01:07:45.239 --> 01:07:49.639 might think all reality is math or just matter in 1113 01:07:49.760 --> 01:07:52.280 motion or can be reduced to that, they wouldn't necessarily 1114 01:07:52.320 --> 01:07:54.840 be physicalist. I mean you might have somebody who thinks 1115 01:07:54.880 --> 01:07:57.360 all reality is math in a platonic way or a 1116 01:07:57.440 --> 01:07:59.880 new you could have anyoplatonists who thought that all reality 1117 01:08:00.079 --> 01:08:04.639 is reducible to higher level logic or thinking. But that 1118 01:08:04.880 --> 01:08:07.119 is also self refuting too. I mean, it's kind of 1119 01:08:07.159 --> 01:08:10.639 a different way of argument. If a lot of times 1120 01:08:10.679 --> 01:08:14.400 people who recognize the problems in materialism and ranked materialism 1121 01:08:14.480 --> 01:08:17.920 and rank not eve empiricism, they'll kind of opt for 1122 01:08:18.199 --> 01:08:21.800 platonism or neoplatonism because it does allow for there to 1123 01:08:21.880 --> 01:08:27.760 be higher level orders of reality, an ideal realm, a psychosphere, 1124 01:08:28.119 --> 01:08:33.159 to use the Matthew McConaughey language, eacho share the mindscape, 1125 01:08:33.279 --> 01:08:38.199 the mental realm, which some of those thinkers like Roger 1126 01:08:38.319 --> 01:08:42.479 Penrose actually think has a real existence. So there kind 1127 01:08:42.520 --> 01:08:44.720 of there are still people a lot of mathematicians kind 1128 01:08:44.760 --> 01:08:48.399 of opt for a neoplatonic or a modern version of Platonism. 1129 01:08:49.119 --> 01:08:51.159 Right if you read that book which is really good, actually, 1130 01:08:52.199 --> 01:08:55.159 Paul Davis' book Mind of God, he kind of argues 1131 01:08:55.199 --> 01:08:57.399 that point. He's like, look, I don't know about exactly 1132 01:08:57.520 --> 01:09:01.119 what the right theism is, but if we look at 1133 01:09:01.840 --> 01:09:05.279 the way math works, the way Girdel's stuff works, if 1134 01:09:05.279 --> 01:09:11.880 we look at the way higher level hypercube geometry works, 1135 01:09:12.479 --> 01:09:15.279 you know, these things are obviously not reducible to matter. 1136 01:09:15.479 --> 01:09:19.640 Mandelbrot sets are not reducible to states of matter. How 1137 01:09:19.680 --> 01:09:22.119 can we explain that? And the best that the strict 1138 01:09:23.039 --> 01:09:25.960 physicalist materialists can say as well, one day we'll know, right, 1139 01:09:26.039 --> 01:09:30.359 So they had this faith that one day moster science, right, 1140 01:09:30.600 --> 01:09:33.880 mister lab coat will just figure it out. Oh, now 1141 01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:36.079 we know that all reality is just. But again you 1142 01:09:36.199 --> 01:09:43.960 can you'll never have a perfect physicalist explanation without assuming 1143 01:09:44.000 --> 01:09:45.039 that everything is physical. 1144 01:09:45.800 --> 01:09:49.319 Yeah, and even if you expressed it, like in the 1145 01:09:49.399 --> 01:09:52.840 same problem with the cat or the seven seven coconuts, 1146 01:09:53.880 --> 01:09:59.399 the concept of consciousness or AI is still not identical 1147 01:09:59.600 --> 01:10:05.239 to whatever the expression or apparatus we create to represent it, 1148 01:10:05.439 --> 01:10:06.760 you know what I mean, So that we have an 1149 01:10:06.800 --> 01:10:09.000 idea and then we're like, I think we got it. 1150 01:10:09.199 --> 01:10:11.520 You know, we're gonna mimic this thing, and all you're 1151 01:10:11.560 --> 01:10:19.199 doing is mimicking some you know, constrained, apprehended version of it. 1152 01:10:19.359 --> 01:10:21.359 You know like that, you're just like, oh, that's AI. 1153 01:10:21.920 --> 01:10:27.279 And you'll never get the direct connection to consciousness because again, 1154 01:10:27.479 --> 01:10:31.800 you can't appeal outside and watch consciousness to know exactly 1155 01:10:32.199 --> 01:10:34.920 what it is to be able to then simulate or 1156 01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:38.399 model it because you're still in it. You know, it's 1157 01:10:38.640 --> 01:10:40.720 you can't. And that's kind of our thing, is that, 1158 01:10:40.880 --> 01:10:45.199 like we can't appeal outside ever, Yeah, I mean can we? 1159 01:10:45.479 --> 01:10:46.159 I mean I don't. 1160 01:10:46.680 --> 01:10:48.359 Well, I mean what would we know that would? Well, 1161 01:10:48.439 --> 01:10:51.439 theoretically you could if you had a mind that was 1162 01:10:51.520 --> 01:10:53.520 outside of it, that revealed it to you. So if 1163 01:10:53.560 --> 01:10:55.800 you're a theist, you have the possibility of that. I'm 1164 01:10:55.840 --> 01:10:57.680 not saying that it's true because you say that. I'm 1165 01:10:57.720 --> 01:11:00.600 just saying that, right, if the theistic worldview is true, 1166 01:11:00.680 --> 01:11:03.800 and the God of you know, the worldview that, for example, 1167 01:11:03.840 --> 01:11:06.399 I have is correct, then it is you could see 1168 01:11:06.439 --> 01:11:09.640 how it's possible because God could reveal from that outside 1169 01:11:09.680 --> 01:11:13.520 perspective as to what universal claims universal truths are grounded in. 1170 01:11:13.720 --> 01:11:16.640 So if you have a universal mind, then yes, you 1171 01:11:16.720 --> 01:11:19.119 do have a basis for that. And now again I'm 1172 01:11:19.159 --> 01:11:22.079 saying that it's coherent, right, I'm not saying because sometimes 1173 01:11:22.119 --> 01:11:24.199 we'll make again, you'll get people says, oh, well, if 1174 01:11:24.239 --> 01:11:27.000 you can't explain to me perfectly how it is the 1175 01:11:27.199 --> 01:11:33.560 case that a universal mind makes claims about universals true, 1176 01:11:33.800 --> 01:11:35.760 then I won't. I don't have to believe it. Well, 1177 01:11:35.800 --> 01:11:39.079 that's but again that's a requirement that no system can 1178 01:11:39.159 --> 01:11:42.600 actually meet. What we're saying is that it is possible. 1179 01:11:42.720 --> 01:11:46.439 It makes sense how you could make universal claims if 1180 01:11:46.560 --> 01:11:49.680 your worldview has a universal being. That is the grounding 1181 01:11:49.760 --> 01:11:53.520 and basis for universals, you see, And that's precisely what 1182 01:11:53.600 --> 01:11:56.600 we're getting out here, is that you know, so in 1183 01:11:58.439 --> 01:12:03.159 philosophical theology, this is called divine conceptualism, right that that 1184 01:12:03.479 --> 01:12:10.000 the grounding of reality is the uh divine The concepts 1185 01:12:10.000 --> 01:12:11.840 in the divine mind for us are called the logi 1186 01:12:12.319 --> 01:12:14.920 l O G o I, which are just the instantiations 1187 01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:19.359 of the logos. Right, So in that in that worldview, 1188 01:12:19.600 --> 01:12:22.840 that's why we say those things. We're giving a why here. 1189 01:12:22.920 --> 01:12:25.479 We're not explaining all the hows that's not possible. But 1190 01:12:27.079 --> 01:12:32.760 that's contrasted with again like so remember so if we 1191 01:12:32.800 --> 01:12:35.399 we're looking at divine conceptualism, the different forms of this 1192 01:12:35.600 --> 01:12:38.239 you could look at, uh, this is this is not 1193 01:12:38.479 --> 01:12:42.319 divine conceptualism. So any system that believes that the world 1194 01:12:42.439 --> 01:12:46.079 is patterned on a creator God would be a form 1195 01:12:46.239 --> 01:12:51.439 of divine conceptualism. So Judaism would have a version of this, 1196 01:12:51.560 --> 01:12:53.119 could have a version of this. Islam could have a 1197 01:12:53.199 --> 01:12:57.239 version of this. Christianity has a version of this, And conceivably, 1198 01:12:57.359 --> 01:13:02.479 I guess if you believed and like the many Aliens 1199 01:13:02.560 --> 01:13:06.000 or many God Creator simulations, I suppose you could come 1200 01:13:06.079 --> 01:13:10.239 up with theoretically a so the ai entities had a 1201 01:13:10.479 --> 01:13:13.000 conception of what they would create. Okay, I mean I 1202 01:13:13.039 --> 01:13:14.720 don't believe that. I think you could refute that in 1203 01:13:14.880 --> 01:13:16.479 another way. We'll get to that when we look at 1204 01:13:16.560 --> 01:13:21.079 like simulation or multi verse theory. But just to some 1205 01:13:21.239 --> 01:13:24.600 of the ideas of oh, everything is math, right. This 1206 01:13:24.800 --> 01:13:28.840 is so Pythagoras, Plato, and Max Tegmark in terms of 1207 01:13:28.960 --> 01:13:33.560 modern mathematicians and theoreticians. He has this view that reality 1208 01:13:33.640 --> 01:13:37.359 quite literally is mathematics at a fundamental level. Right, So 1209 01:13:37.479 --> 01:13:40.399 some of the people who believe the quantum stuff will say, 1210 01:13:40.560 --> 01:13:43.119 when I get down to the you know, smallest levels 1211 01:13:43.119 --> 01:13:45.880 of reality. Again, I don't know if it's if they're correct, 1212 01:13:45.920 --> 01:13:47.560 but let's say that it is. If it is true, 1213 01:13:47.560 --> 01:13:50.680 they'll say, you find geometric structure even at that smallest 1214 01:13:50.720 --> 01:13:53.760 level real. So therefore reality is at a fundamental level 1215 01:13:54.600 --> 01:13:58.960 math or numbers or geometry in some way, And that's 1216 01:13:59.079 --> 01:14:01.479 just another or I mean binary right one and zero 1217 01:14:01.760 --> 01:14:05.279 being non being right. That's another version of like mathematical 1218 01:14:05.680 --> 01:14:10.960 approaches to reality. But again those are reductionists, right, there's 1219 01:14:10.960 --> 01:14:15.039 still systems or positions that try to predicate from a 1220 01:14:15.159 --> 01:14:18.960 limited human vantage point what all of reality is. So 1221 01:14:19.079 --> 01:14:21.439 you actually hit on kind of one of the key 1222 01:14:21.520 --> 01:14:23.920 areas where I would criticize. This is what I would 1223 01:14:24.119 --> 01:14:26.479 is that I would just say simply say, look, how 1224 01:14:26.960 --> 01:14:30.720 can you say what all reality is? If you're a human. 1225 01:14:30.960 --> 01:14:33.680 You can't. I mean you're limited. And again, most people, 1226 01:14:33.800 --> 01:14:37.520 unless they're platonists, which most people aren't. Your ninety nine 1227 01:14:37.600 --> 01:14:40.119 percent of the people that you interact with are going 1228 01:14:40.159 --> 01:14:42.880 to be basic level empiricists. They're going to be like, man, 1229 01:14:42.920 --> 01:14:45.399 we only know what we can see, touch SuDS and 1230 01:14:45.479 --> 01:14:48.279 fuel man as all we know. Dude, Well guess what 1231 01:14:48.560 --> 01:14:51.199 if that's all you know? You can never make a 1232 01:14:51.359 --> 01:14:53.359 universal claim ever at all. 1233 01:14:53.760 --> 01:14:57.000 It's important that including that claim. You couldn't actually show 1234 01:14:57.079 --> 01:15:01.880 me how that's true using those tools. Yeah, it just 1235 01:15:02.279 --> 01:15:04.920 it doesn't work. It's funny you a lot of people, 1236 01:15:05.159 --> 01:15:11.439 uh I'll do streams or you know, talk to strict 1237 01:15:11.560 --> 01:15:16.720 empiricists and materialists and It's funny because the our best 1238 01:15:16.840 --> 01:15:23.000 approach to that worldview is it almost sounds like nihilism 1239 01:15:23.079 --> 01:15:26.119 at first, like we're taking the nihilistic approach to like 1240 01:15:27.119 --> 01:15:30.560 lead them to their logical end. You know, have you 1241 01:15:30.720 --> 01:15:33.000 noticed that, Like you don't just say like no, no, no, 1242 01:15:33.279 --> 01:15:36.960 like it's this, you go, okay, you just keep like 1243 01:15:37.840 --> 01:15:40.720 if that's true, then oh, then you believe this, and 1244 01:15:41.079 --> 01:15:44.960 then like that's that's a I don't know, I don't 1245 01:15:44.960 --> 01:15:49.319 even consider it a technique because I'm literally like asking them, 1246 01:15:49.359 --> 01:15:52.880 I'm just going, how do you know anything's true? You know, 1247 01:15:53.000 --> 01:15:54.840 like and then they're like, you're just a not You're 1248 01:15:54.920 --> 01:15:57.239 just being a nihilist, and I'm like, no, I'm leading. 1249 01:15:57.760 --> 01:16:01.680 I'm leading toward your toward the end of your worldview. 1250 01:16:02.319 --> 01:16:05.760 And once you lead someone there, I mean, it's just 1251 01:16:05.840 --> 01:16:08.560 like you did with Dill Honey, like eventually you the 1252 01:16:08.760 --> 01:16:13.399 only thing you can do is appeal to metaverse logic 1253 01:16:13.520 --> 01:16:17.520 isn't real maybe somewhere like you know, it's just real 1254 01:16:17.600 --> 01:16:20.600 for us now, you know, and and it's just absurdity. 1255 01:16:20.880 --> 01:16:23.680 So I mean it all like you said, there's not 1256 01:16:23.800 --> 01:16:26.800 many places you can go, and I'm seeing that clearer 1257 01:16:26.880 --> 01:16:29.920 and clearer, like, there really isn't that many places to 1258 01:16:30.039 --> 01:16:34.119 go with a with a worldview because one, like you said, 1259 01:16:34.159 --> 01:16:37.800 we're limited. But but that's like sounds like a you know, 1260 01:16:38.000 --> 01:16:42.119 nihilistic approach, but it's not. It's just that's what the 1261 01:16:42.840 --> 01:16:47.159 that's the truth of the matter, and we have to 1262 01:16:47.239 --> 01:16:50.319 appeal outside of ourselves. So we're stuck. But no matter 1263 01:16:50.399 --> 01:16:52.319 your worldview, you're stuck with those two facts. 1264 01:16:52.720 --> 01:16:54.600 Yeah, I think you You also nailed it when you 1265 01:16:54.720 --> 01:16:57.840 said that earlier when we were talking about Dude Bro's worldview, 1266 01:16:58.000 --> 01:17:02.479 that it was it ends in syllipsism, and ironically, the 1267 01:17:02.600 --> 01:17:07.359 history of Western philosophy actually went in that direction. So Descartes, 1268 01:17:07.600 --> 01:17:09.840 you know, when he does his meditations, he's actually trying 1269 01:17:09.920 --> 01:17:13.199 to get down to the most basic thing that can't 1270 01:17:13.239 --> 01:17:16.880 be doubted, right with the cogto, and then he proposes 1271 01:17:16.960 --> 01:17:18.880 what he thinks would be a place to kind of 1272 01:17:18.920 --> 01:17:21.439 start building a philosophy. Oh we all know and can't 1273 01:17:21.520 --> 01:17:25.119 doubt this. Now, that doesn't work, and ultimately for multiple reasons. 1274 01:17:25.159 --> 01:17:29.439 But what's ironic is that even after that, when we 1275 01:17:29.520 --> 01:17:33.680 get up into modern empiricism, which is still the dominant 1276 01:17:33.760 --> 01:17:37.800 kind of philosophy for the most part naive empiricism, because 1277 01:17:37.840 --> 01:17:39.640 people just think, well, there's there's what else can we do? 1278 01:17:39.760 --> 01:17:42.760 There's no other options. We're boxed in here. You look 1279 01:17:42.760 --> 01:17:45.800 at Quin's essay, his famous essay just reasserts the problems 1280 01:17:45.800 --> 01:17:49.680 of Hume. That's where we're stuck. And ironically, if you 1281 01:17:49.720 --> 01:17:52.520 look at Russell, for example, in his scientism books, he 1282 01:17:52.560 --> 01:17:58.840 actually proposes in Scientific Outlook that reality really is just 1283 01:17:59.039 --> 01:18:06.680 a series of phenomena that could entirely just be projected 1284 01:18:06.760 --> 01:18:10.039 onto our senses from who knows what I mean. He 1285 01:18:10.079 --> 01:18:13.359 doesn't believe in simulation theory, but he literally says early 1286 01:18:13.439 --> 01:18:16.039 on in the books that, look, we don't know that 1287 01:18:16.680 --> 01:18:20.520 the data or the impressions that are hitting our five senses, 1288 01:18:20.560 --> 01:18:23.279 that they're actually coherent or meaningful. We don't even know 1289 01:18:23.520 --> 01:18:25.479 that they're from an external world. We could be a 1290 01:18:25.560 --> 01:18:29.119 mind and a app He literally says that. He says, 1291 01:18:29.199 --> 01:18:31.560 we could just be projecting them from our sub conscious. 1292 01:18:33.239 --> 01:18:36.359 He says, now that we because we can't answer those questions, 1293 01:18:36.439 --> 01:18:38.960 we're just going to proceed as if we live in 1294 01:18:39.039 --> 01:18:42.880 a world where we're distinct beings and there's a commonly 1295 01:18:42.960 --> 01:18:46.119 experienced external world and all these things right, because we 1296 01:18:46.199 --> 01:18:49.000 can't answer the just forget it, dude, it's done. It's 1297 01:18:49.079 --> 01:18:53.399 like the unattainable quest. It's like, you know, can you 1298 01:18:53.479 --> 01:18:56.199 beat the final level of Donkey Kong? There isn't one. Right, 1299 01:18:56.920 --> 01:19:01.000 So you might think, well, are we out a nineistic endpoint? 1300 01:19:01.159 --> 01:19:04.439 Are we at a dead end? No, because you would 1301 01:19:04.479 --> 01:19:07.680 only think that's a dead end if you want to 1302 01:19:07.800 --> 01:19:10.800 be an atheist, if you want to shut up all 1303 01:19:10.840 --> 01:19:14.640 of reality into man's mind. But that's where all of it. 1304 01:19:14.720 --> 01:19:17.000 You see, these people, the problem is not knowledge for them, 1305 01:19:17.079 --> 01:19:20.840 the problem is pride. The problem is atheistic arrogance, pride 1306 01:19:21.600 --> 01:19:23.720 and not wanting there to be a god. They have 1307 01:19:23.840 --> 01:19:27.239 an invested interest in not wanting there to be a god. 1308 01:19:27.319 --> 01:19:29.279 That's the issue here. It's not Oh, it's just a 1309 01:19:29.399 --> 01:19:31.079 lack of facts. And if we just give them more 1310 01:19:31.159 --> 01:19:33.560 facts and now you have to repent. You see, that's 1311 01:19:33.600 --> 01:19:37.479 the point here. And again, yes, there's limited ways that 1312 01:19:37.600 --> 01:19:38.000 you can go. 1313 01:19:39.840 --> 01:19:43.920 Also, I wouldn't I would say more specifically, people don't 1314 01:19:44.039 --> 01:19:48.760 want there to be a coherent God because it's way 1315 01:19:48.880 --> 01:19:51.439 easier to you. Notice, it's not just a fad. I 1316 01:19:51.560 --> 01:19:55.359 was thinking about this, like, why does Christianity such a 1317 01:19:55.760 --> 01:19:58.479 strong target. You know, Islam is a target for a 1318 01:19:58.520 --> 01:20:02.279 lot of things, you know, in media or whatever politics. 1319 01:20:02.880 --> 01:20:08.720 But I was thinking about why certain certain worldviews are 1320 01:20:09.279 --> 01:20:13.479 really hard targets, you know, and they're just like out 1321 01:20:13.520 --> 01:20:17.520 in the open, and I was realizing that, like it's coherency. 1322 01:20:17.800 --> 01:20:22.920 It's like if something makes sense, then you don't. If 1323 01:20:22.960 --> 01:20:26.760 you're invested in not having that be the truth, you're 1324 01:20:26.760 --> 01:20:29.680 gonna find the one that's the most threatening. In other words, 1325 01:20:29.800 --> 01:20:32.680 like you know, if you're over the target, you know, 1326 01:20:32.800 --> 01:20:36.600 like any of you guys like Rouche got you know, banned, right, 1327 01:20:36.920 --> 01:20:38.880 you know, he was over the target so to speak. 1328 01:20:39.079 --> 01:20:43.000 He was saying things over a target. And I look 1329 01:20:43.039 --> 01:20:46.199 at it similarly. So it's not like just because a 1330 01:20:46.239 --> 01:20:47.920 lot of other things are easy to write off, like 1331 01:20:47.960 --> 01:20:50.920 an elephant with six arms and blah blah blah, or 1332 01:20:51.119 --> 01:20:57.399 Cali the demon goddess and you know, multiple gods flying 1333 01:20:57.479 --> 01:20:59.880 around and kind of arguing with each other and pagan is. 1334 01:21:00.239 --> 01:21:02.399 It's like it's easy to discard a lot of stuff. 1335 01:21:02.520 --> 01:21:12.359 But because specifically Christianity unifies an immaterial God and that 1336 01:21:12.720 --> 01:21:16.800 God is embodied in a man, I believe that is 1337 01:21:17.560 --> 01:21:22.199 why it's so people are so averse because it kind 1338 01:21:22.239 --> 01:21:25.640 of like gets into the material a little bit, into 1339 01:21:25.680 --> 01:21:29.359 the material world. Yeah, and it's a lot more threatening, 1340 01:21:29.439 --> 01:21:32.239 I think, you know, and I'm not well versed enough 1341 01:21:32.760 --> 01:21:38.119 in theology, you know, just still reading and learning. But 1342 01:21:38.520 --> 01:21:42.239 it seems from a broad perspective that that's the threat. 1343 01:21:42.439 --> 01:21:46.560 If it's coherent, it's a it's a threat. If it's 1344 01:21:46.600 --> 01:21:48.520 not and just silly and it can be written off. 1345 01:21:48.760 --> 01:21:51.600 It's just like, okay, not a threat. Not a threat. 1346 01:21:52.199 --> 01:21:55.600 That's a great question. Let's get to why that is 1347 01:21:55.760 --> 01:22:02.079 also unavoidable for any system how truth in whatever senses 1348 01:22:02.119 --> 01:22:05.319 you can see it to be have to instantiate or 1349 01:22:05.399 --> 01:22:09.319 be in this world as well. That's actually unavoidable for 1350 01:22:09.760 --> 01:22:12.520 their systems too. So even the guys who argue against 1351 01:22:13.199 --> 01:22:18.439 or had this problem with the idea that the universal 1352 01:22:18.520 --> 01:22:21.760 could be instantiated in the particular or could enter into 1353 01:22:21.840 --> 01:22:23.960 the here and the now. That's going to be a 1354 01:22:24.039 --> 01:22:26.239 big problem for any worldviewing. By the way, this has 1355 01:22:26.279 --> 01:22:30.119 been problem for Plato. But this is another reason why 1356 01:22:30.199 --> 01:22:33.399 you can't go to platonic route. But I did want 1357 01:22:33.399 --> 01:22:35.960 to address that question just kind of in a earlier 1358 01:22:36.079 --> 01:22:38.920 about being limited in the ways that we can go 1359 01:22:39.239 --> 01:22:42.600 in terms of our beliefs. If we just took basic 1360 01:22:42.680 --> 01:22:46.920 ideas in epistemology, right, anybody's epistemology will have to answer 1361 01:22:47.119 --> 01:22:50.800 kind of easy questions. Right, We've got two options here. 1362 01:22:51.359 --> 01:22:53.319 Can we know or we can't know? 1363 01:22:53.920 --> 01:22:54.039 Right? 1364 01:22:55.199 --> 01:23:00.479 We can know or we can't know truths, propositions, beliefs, anything, 1365 01:23:00.520 --> 01:23:01.239 It doesn't matter. 1366 01:23:01.079 --> 01:23:03.880 What those are. Both number one though, right in the end, 1367 01:23:05.439 --> 01:23:07.039 if we can't know, right, So if we. 1368 01:23:07.079 --> 01:23:09.039 Went this route, it would be right, it would be 1369 01:23:09.079 --> 01:23:11.600 self refuting. But I'm just going to show you that, right, 1370 01:23:11.680 --> 01:23:13.640 So we know that that that's the one we covered earlier, 1371 01:23:13.680 --> 01:23:15.159 and we know that one self refuting, so we're going 1372 01:23:15.239 --> 01:23:18.479 to cross that out. So the next step I meant 1373 01:23:18.520 --> 01:23:22.920 to I meant to make this number one so we 1374 01:23:23.039 --> 01:23:27.279 know that number one is correct. I can't write upset 1375 01:23:27.359 --> 01:23:30.560 down there we go so we know that we found 1376 01:23:30.600 --> 01:23:32.439 out that Roman one was correct and one was correct. 1377 01:23:32.479 --> 01:23:35.680 That could lead to other questions. Can we know there's 1378 01:23:35.680 --> 01:23:36.560 an external world? 1379 01:23:37.520 --> 01:23:37.680 Right? 1380 01:23:39.119 --> 01:23:42.479 Can we know who we who's that we there? Can 1381 01:23:42.600 --> 01:23:44.760 we know what an eye is? A self an am? 1382 01:23:46.399 --> 01:23:49.359 Can we know what it is to exist in this 1383 01:23:49.520 --> 01:23:52.560 external world? Can we know what a world is can 1384 01:23:52.640 --> 01:23:54.199 we know where it came from? So we just started. 1385 01:23:54.520 --> 01:23:57.600 So what I'm getting at is that once you answer 1386 01:23:57.760 --> 01:24:00.760 yes to one of the easy kind of foundational questions, 1387 01:24:01.560 --> 01:24:04.079 it limits you in where you go from there. And 1388 01:24:04.199 --> 01:24:07.159 if you answer wrong in one of those foundational ones, 1389 01:24:07.800 --> 01:24:11.359 the whole system collapses. It's like, you know, the the 1390 01:24:12.439 --> 01:24:15.399 superstructure of the building collapses. 1391 01:24:15.039 --> 01:24:19.159 Right, right? Is that still within the one and the 1392 01:24:19.239 --> 01:24:19.960 many issue? 1393 01:24:20.479 --> 01:24:24.319 It could be yeah, I mean you could. I mean 1394 01:24:25.399 --> 01:24:27.239 I was just kind of making it even more simple 1395 01:24:27.319 --> 01:24:28.960 than that. But if you wanted to, you could. You 1396 01:24:29.039 --> 01:24:31.039 could apply the one of the many and say well, 1397 01:24:31.039 --> 01:24:34.439 if you don't believe in universals, then you can't actually 1398 01:24:34.520 --> 01:24:37.920 predicate of anything. And you'll get a lot of modern 1399 01:24:37.920 --> 01:24:40.000 philosophers who will try to answer that and say, well, 1400 01:24:40.079 --> 01:24:42.600 we don't actually believe that there have to be universals, 1401 01:24:42.680 --> 01:24:45.680 but we will act like they exist in language so 1402 01:24:45.800 --> 01:24:47.880 that we can have language. But that doesn't tell us 1403 01:24:47.920 --> 01:24:50.840 that there's actually any universal truth. So they just play 1404 01:24:50.920 --> 01:24:54.319 this game in philosophy and academia where they just like 1405 01:24:54.399 --> 01:24:56.399 the Darwin I say well, we don't actually know there's 1406 01:24:56.399 --> 01:24:59.319 an external world. We can never actually know that. But look, dude, 1407 01:24:59.479 --> 01:25:01.319 we're gonna like it is so that we can do 1408 01:25:01.479 --> 01:25:03.840 our science. That's how stupid it is. I'm not kidding. 1409 01:25:03.840 --> 01:25:05.880 That's what they do. And they'll just ask if you 1410 01:25:05.920 --> 01:25:07.680 start bringing these things, that was it? Man? Nobody can 1411 01:25:07.760 --> 01:25:08.680 even answer those questions. 1412 01:25:09.319 --> 01:25:12.680 Yeah, how do you have nothing? Nothing is really? Yeah nothing, 1413 01:25:12.840 --> 01:25:16.199 No truth is accessible. But you had one sixth of 1414 01:25:16.279 --> 01:25:18.479 aw wi for a million years, correct. 1415 01:25:19.520 --> 01:25:22.800 And many of the science crowd still has one six 1416 01:25:23.119 --> 01:25:28.279 we wi for many Uh So the last what was 1417 01:25:28.319 --> 01:25:31.720 your last quese? You went to a different arenas where. 1418 01:25:31.640 --> 01:25:31.880 They go. 1419 01:25:33.439 --> 01:25:36.000 I was talking about the target, you know, easy target, 1420 01:25:36.119 --> 01:25:40.600 like coherency, like not just uh, you know, people don't 1421 01:25:40.960 --> 01:25:44.880 it's not just that they don't want to believe or 1422 01:25:44.960 --> 01:25:49.199 confront the possibility of a god, but it's it filters down, 1423 01:25:49.399 --> 01:25:53.760 It filters down to coherency. Like the closer you get 1424 01:25:53.800 --> 01:25:57.119 to coherency, the more people don't want to deal with it, 1425 01:25:57.359 --> 01:25:59.199 you know. And and they'll even go to you know, 1426 01:25:59.279 --> 01:26:02.520 people like Brett Weinstein will be like, you know, I 1427 01:26:02.640 --> 01:26:05.279 can't deny and similar to Jordan Peterson where they argue 1428 01:26:05.319 --> 01:26:11.039 for the work ability the usefulness of religion, Christianity as 1429 01:26:11.159 --> 01:26:15.079 a heuristic model what I like to call it tech 1430 01:26:15.159 --> 01:26:17.479 and avatar to use in the game of life. You know, 1431 01:26:17.560 --> 01:26:19.840 that was that's good. That that one's good. 1432 01:26:19.920 --> 01:26:20.520 I like that one. 1433 01:26:20.920 --> 01:26:26.119 And uh, they they almost admit the pragmat the pragmatic 1434 01:26:26.800 --> 01:26:29.800 aspect of it, but the pragmatism isn't the basis for 1435 01:26:29.880 --> 01:26:34.000 the argument Nora's usefulness, and that can't be further the 1436 01:26:34.079 --> 01:26:39.359 basis of truth or morality or ethics or anything else. 1437 01:26:39.479 --> 01:26:42.960 So they kind of deal, They're they're swimming in the 1438 01:26:43.039 --> 01:26:46.319 same soup. There's still they're confronting and dealing with it, 1439 01:26:46.439 --> 01:26:50.600 and I actually applaud some of them. I don't necessarily 1440 01:26:50.720 --> 01:26:55.479 respect their ongoing departure from the truth or you know, 1441 01:26:55.920 --> 01:26:59.560 rejection of logic, But even someone like Sam Harris, who's 1442 01:26:59.880 --> 01:27:04.039 just constantly contradicts himself all the time, still at least 1443 01:27:04.079 --> 01:27:05.960 got to a place where he's like, well, no, I 1444 01:27:06.159 --> 01:27:10.600 really think the good exists, like I can't can't avoid it. 1445 01:27:10.720 --> 01:27:12.359 And the same thing with Stefan. You know, when you 1446 01:27:12.439 --> 01:27:14.720 had your conversation, he was already at a point where 1447 01:27:14.760 --> 01:27:18.239 it's like I can't. I'm not gonna pretend I don't 1448 01:27:18.319 --> 01:27:25.760 live consistent with this, with the you know, acknowledgment of 1449 01:27:25.880 --> 01:27:31.079 these metaphysical preconditions, these metaphysical claims, these truths that have 1450 01:27:31.279 --> 01:27:33.239 to be true in order for me to even begin 1451 01:27:33.439 --> 01:27:37.079 to argue about truth at all. And then, you know, 1452 01:27:37.239 --> 01:27:39.640 once you get to that place, I don't I think 1453 01:27:39.680 --> 01:27:42.640 it's either you go toward good and God or you 1454 01:27:42.840 --> 01:27:45.640 live in a version of hell where you're just like, yeah, 1455 01:27:45.960 --> 01:27:49.079 you begin help, yeah, yeah, and you're like, you know, 1456 01:27:49.159 --> 01:27:50.319 it's you know, something's true. 1457 01:27:50.760 --> 01:27:52.640 So let's deal with that question that you raised, like, well, 1458 01:27:52.880 --> 01:27:54.560 what about the people that have a problem with the 1459 01:27:54.640 --> 01:27:58.039 idea of like universal truth entering into the here and 1460 01:27:58.079 --> 01:28:00.199 the now in this world? Right, because we do say 1461 01:28:00.239 --> 01:28:02.319 that about Christ, We say Jesus is the logos, the 1462 01:28:02.399 --> 01:28:04.960 second person of the Godhead, that he became flesh, right, 1463 01:28:05.000 --> 01:28:09.000 he became man fully human, walking around, you know, doing 1464 01:28:09.119 --> 01:28:12.319 things that humans do, yet without sin in our worldview, 1465 01:28:13.960 --> 01:28:16.199 Isn't that problematic? Aren't we? Aren't we kind of like 1466 01:28:16.680 --> 01:28:19.119 diminishing truth by bringing it down into the here and 1467 01:28:19.159 --> 01:28:22.319 the now. That is the platonic issue, That is the 1468 01:28:22.479 --> 01:28:26.119 platonic problem. Now, remember we said before Plato was asking 1469 01:28:26.199 --> 01:28:28.000 one of those great questions about the one of the 1470 01:28:28.039 --> 01:28:30.439 many when he was saying, well, what is one cat 1471 01:28:31.279 --> 01:28:33.520 in relationship to all cats? What do we mean when 1472 01:28:33.560 --> 01:28:35.680 we talk about cats? And we saw it. We said 1473 01:28:35.720 --> 01:28:38.119 earlier that his solution, in his mind, what he thought 1474 01:28:38.239 --> 01:28:42.840 was the best answer, was idealism. And by idealism, we 1475 01:28:42.920 --> 01:28:46.399 don't mean it in a colloquial sense like the Marxist 1476 01:28:46.520 --> 01:28:48.520 on the street is an idealist. We mean it in 1477 01:28:48.600 --> 01:28:53.600 a technical, metaphysical sense that what really exists or has 1478 01:28:53.640 --> 01:28:57.600 a higher level of existence or reality or ideas. Plato 1479 01:28:57.760 --> 01:29:01.399 is a the pre eminence ideal. He thinks that in 1480 01:29:01.520 --> 01:29:04.079 his scheme in the Greek chain of being, you could say, 1481 01:29:04.199 --> 01:29:07.359 at the top of what exists in the chain are ideas, 1482 01:29:08.239 --> 01:29:12.000 and those ideas ultimately actually are fundamentally one. This is 1483 01:29:12.039 --> 01:29:17.399 the monad for Plato. So what exists, truly and properly speaking, 1484 01:29:17.680 --> 01:29:23.439 is though one, the idea, the monad, and all those ideas, 1485 01:29:23.520 --> 01:29:25.800 even the cat. Right, we're saying that the essence of 1486 01:29:25.840 --> 01:29:29.720 the cat is the idea of cat that's in the monad, 1487 01:29:29.800 --> 01:29:33.560 and ultimately it's one. Now, there's problems just to how 1488 01:29:33.800 --> 01:29:35.720 there can be distinctions in the one, because there's not 1489 01:29:36.359 --> 01:29:37.880 what we're going to set that aside for a moment, 1490 01:29:37.920 --> 01:29:39.720 when we look at Plato, just what we just want 1491 01:29:39.760 --> 01:29:42.520 to understand that this answer, and we're going to show 1492 01:29:42.560 --> 01:29:44.760 why this is a problem for Plato. It's also going 1493 01:29:44.840 --> 01:29:46.720 to be a problem for any of the any of 1494 01:29:46.760 --> 01:29:50.439 the persons who might admit abstract truth but don't want 1495 01:29:50.479 --> 01:29:52.439 it to enter into the hearing the now. Like we 1496 01:29:52.560 --> 01:29:55.079 say with Jesus. We're going to point out that they 1497 01:29:55.159 --> 01:29:57.600 have the same problem, and not only that, they actually 1498 01:29:57.720 --> 01:30:01.239 admit that it does enter into the here and the now. 1499 01:30:01.439 --> 01:30:03.199 And guess where it enters into the here and the 1500 01:30:03.319 --> 01:30:08.119 now in the non Jesus believing worldview in their mind 1501 01:30:08.720 --> 01:30:11.319 they make their mind the logos. We'll see it in 1502 01:30:11.359 --> 01:30:14.199 a minute. But what are the features in Plato's idea 1503 01:30:14.359 --> 01:30:17.000 of the one or the higher level ideal reality? Well, 1504 01:30:17.039 --> 01:30:21.880 for him, because it's like math, obviously it's unchanging. The 1505 01:30:22.000 --> 01:30:24.479 number seven doesn't become the number five. It doesn't evolve. 1506 01:30:25.239 --> 01:30:28.159 Those things are eternal. They're not subject to time like 1507 01:30:28.399 --> 01:30:32.279 we see here. They don't. It's invariant. They don't. There doesn't. 1508 01:30:33.159 --> 01:30:36.359 This realm doesn't undergo flux, right, Cat and this will 1509 01:30:36.399 --> 01:30:38.680 always remain Cat andus no matter how many cats come 1510 01:30:38.760 --> 01:30:41.399 and go, even though all the cats in the world 1511 01:30:41.479 --> 01:30:42.960 go to Hell. I'm joking they don't. 1512 01:30:43.039 --> 01:30:46.039 And also just anyone in the chat who went there 1513 01:30:46.520 --> 01:30:49.119 with their brain, that's still the same even if we 1514 01:30:49.239 --> 01:30:53.359 all decided that B is seven, because it doesn't matter 1515 01:30:53.439 --> 01:30:57.439 what you call the cat, that's just the descriptor. 1516 01:30:57.000 --> 01:31:00.199 Yeah, that's the ling whatever. Correct. It could change, right, 1517 01:31:00.319 --> 01:31:03.399 So that's why I Plato would just say to that, well, look, uh, 1518 01:31:03.560 --> 01:31:05.880 you know, I'm a Greek. I use this word for cat. 1519 01:31:06.279 --> 01:31:09.800 You know, the Chinese they use this word for cat, 1520 01:31:09.840 --> 01:31:12.000 the Egyptians use this word for cat. We're all talking 1521 01:31:12.039 --> 01:31:14.239 about the same thing. The linguistic symbols can change, it 1522 01:31:14.279 --> 01:31:16.880 doesn't matter because the reference is the same. That's all 1523 01:31:16.920 --> 01:31:20.039 Plato would say to that. But yes, you're right. And 1524 01:31:20.159 --> 01:31:25.880 then the features of this this metaphysically, this ideal one, 1525 01:31:26.000 --> 01:31:29.399 this moment ad, these ideas, they're metaphysically higher in some sense, 1526 01:31:29.520 --> 01:31:33.960 meaning that they're more real or they're given ontological priority. Uh. 1527 01:31:34.159 --> 01:31:37.359 And they're also immaterial in Plato's philosophy. So this is 1528 01:31:37.520 --> 01:31:40.199 all in his view, contrasted to the here and the 1529 01:31:40.319 --> 01:31:43.720 now in a dialectical tension. Now you're starting to see 1530 01:31:43.800 --> 01:31:47.600 why if you start, if you think that math numbers logic, 1531 01:31:47.800 --> 01:31:52.039 that stuff is more real, and it's higher ontologically, metaphysically, 1532 01:31:52.319 --> 01:31:57.279 it's given a priority. This world is lesser, lower prison dream. 1533 01:31:57.640 --> 01:32:00.920 Oh now it's starting to sound like eustism. We've heard 1534 01:32:00.960 --> 01:32:03.680 this before. So this world is a trap, it's a prison. 1535 01:32:04.399 --> 01:32:07.159 We're in the matrix again, and literally Plato's philosophy is 1536 01:32:07.239 --> 01:32:11.079 the major's philosophy. But forget that. Let's just point out 1537 01:32:11.119 --> 01:32:14.000 this main thing. Look, Plato had this same issue because 1538 01:32:14.039 --> 01:32:16.279 people say, wait a minute, Plato, if that's the real realm, 1539 01:32:17.039 --> 01:32:19.640 how does that realm of the ideas and the real 1540 01:32:20.840 --> 01:32:24.840 relate to this realm, which you say is not really real. 1541 01:32:24.960 --> 01:32:29.079 It's like a dream, it's an illusion. Your whole system 1542 01:32:29.199 --> 01:32:31.399 is built on the one and the mini having a 1543 01:32:31.479 --> 01:32:35.199 real participation and relating to one another. But if that 1544 01:32:35.359 --> 01:32:39.600 realm is invariant and unchanging and this realm is literally 1545 01:32:39.800 --> 01:32:43.359 flux and change constantly, you've got a problem, Plato, How 1546 01:32:43.439 --> 01:32:47.680 can you relate to fundamentally intention things. Do you know 1547 01:32:47.760 --> 01:32:52.800 what Plato's response was, I mean, it's it's utterly retarded, 1548 01:32:52.840 --> 01:32:53.359 but it's. 1549 01:32:53.399 --> 01:32:56.119 He said, it depends on what you mean you're close. 1550 01:32:56.439 --> 01:33:00.880 He actually this might piersonbod act believe this. I don't know, 1551 01:33:01.000 --> 01:33:06.239 but uh, Plato literally said, uh, we had a past life, bro. 1552 01:33:07.039 --> 01:33:09.680 Oh that's that was the best thing you because the 1553 01:33:09.720 --> 01:33:12.039 best I could come up with is, at one time 1554 01:33:12.159 --> 01:33:14.520 we were in a past life in the realm of 1555 01:33:14.600 --> 01:33:17.960 the ideas, and we were part of the realm of ideas. 1556 01:33:18.079 --> 01:33:21.439 We were one with the one, and we at some 1557 01:33:21.560 --> 01:33:24.319 point just kind of like fell down into this bodily prism. 1558 01:33:25.119 --> 01:33:28.560 So he literally relies on myths. He says, uh, myths, 1559 01:33:29.000 --> 01:33:33.720 that's ancient myths, and we are reincarnated, that's what he said. So, uh, 1560 01:33:33.920 --> 01:33:37.760 transmigration of souls, total mythology. So you see the irony 1561 01:33:37.800 --> 01:33:40.520 here is that you thought and in a way it 1562 01:33:40.640 --> 01:33:46.319 is a highly rational, highly systematic, mathematical Pythagorean system. And 1563 01:33:46.439 --> 01:33:48.760 what does it ultimately fall back on mysticism? 1564 01:33:49.439 --> 01:33:49.560 Uh? 1565 01:33:49.960 --> 01:33:51.760 You know, we just had a past life, bro, where 1566 01:33:52.279 --> 01:33:54.560 where we were, we were in we were the one man. 1567 01:33:54.640 --> 01:33:58.159 We were all one dude. So it's even that system 1568 01:33:58.279 --> 01:34:00.960 is based on certain Now, if you if you don't 1569 01:34:01.000 --> 01:34:03.079 want to go this route, you see, let's say, well, 1570 01:34:03.079 --> 01:34:06.359 I don't believe in that reincarnation nonsense. But it doesn't matter, 1571 01:34:06.399 --> 01:34:09.680 because you're going to have the same problem in your 1572 01:34:09.760 --> 01:34:15.640 worldview if you don't have the ability to explain the invariant, 1573 01:34:15.840 --> 01:34:22.720 abstract conceptual things and entities relating to instantiating and being 1574 01:34:22.840 --> 01:34:25.960 able to be in this realm of time and space 1575 01:34:26.000 --> 01:34:28.880 and flux. Now, also we can explain that in the 1576 01:34:28.960 --> 01:34:31.439 Christian system, we can give an account for how that's possible. 1577 01:34:31.439 --> 01:34:34.239 I'm not saying by explain, I don't mean I give 1578 01:34:34.279 --> 01:34:37.640 you the infinite, perfect way of how it all works. 1579 01:34:38.159 --> 01:34:42.399 By explaining, we mean give the possibilities and the preconditions. 1580 01:34:42.439 --> 01:34:43.600 That's how that's possible. 1581 01:34:44.520 --> 01:34:47.079 Or doesn't He he also had a problem because he's 1582 01:34:47.199 --> 01:34:52.560 he only, even through his his mythical explanation, explain the 1583 01:34:52.840 --> 01:34:58.520 unity between the immaterial, the one, the abstract world of 1584 01:34:59.439 --> 01:35:03.239 invariant and the mind and us the mind. But he 1585 01:35:03.359 --> 01:35:05.680 does he's he didn't. I don't know if he did 1586 01:35:05.800 --> 01:35:08.560 or not, But in your summary it didn't sound like 1587 01:35:08.640 --> 01:35:12.319 he included the uh, the unchanging, you know, like the 1588 01:35:12.560 --> 01:35:17.159 uh the what is it called regularity in nature? Like 1589 01:35:17.279 --> 01:35:21.960 that's that's that we actually perceive in similar No, he 1590 01:35:22.000 --> 01:35:22.319 would have. 1591 01:35:22.640 --> 01:35:25.079 A way to explain that you're correct. I mean, that's 1592 01:35:25.119 --> 01:35:28.279 a question that we'll be asked a lot later in philosophy. 1593 01:35:28.680 --> 01:35:31.039 But you could ask that of a Plato or a 1594 01:35:31.039 --> 01:35:33.680 Platonist or anybody who tried to go down that route. 1595 01:35:34.319 --> 01:35:36.520 And I was just giving one easy example of the 1596 01:35:36.640 --> 01:35:41.239 tension between the invariant and the variant of the This 1597 01:35:41.439 --> 01:35:44.319 is in philosophy. It's a problem of UH being in 1598 01:35:44.399 --> 01:35:49.640 stasis like flux and and change versus UH stasis and invariants. 1599 01:35:50.000 --> 01:35:52.600 These are these are problems that come up that these 1600 01:35:52.720 --> 01:35:56.520 kinds of systems can't answer because they're well, they're they're 1601 01:35:56.680 --> 01:36:00.439 they're bad systems. But yes, you're correct, you could that one. 1602 01:36:00.479 --> 01:36:02.640 There's a whole actually a whole list of problems that 1603 01:36:02.680 --> 01:36:04.680 you could ask of Plato. A more fun I mean 1604 01:36:05.039 --> 01:36:09.159 and even more devastating one could just simply be well, Plato, 1605 01:36:09.319 --> 01:36:12.960 if if, if this is the case, why was there 1606 01:36:13.039 --> 01:36:18.800 ever distinction at all? Because remember the one the monad here, right, 1607 01:36:18.920 --> 01:36:22.560 So in the Platonic system, the highest level reality is 1608 01:36:22.600 --> 01:36:25.800 the one the monad. Quite literally, we're saying that numbers 1609 01:36:25.960 --> 01:36:31.600 are a mystical thing, magical mystical lot up for the 1610 01:36:31.720 --> 01:36:36.760 number mystery too, the magical number mystery tour is coming 1611 01:36:37.000 --> 01:36:42.000 to take you away reincarnation type stuff, right, Uh, literal 1612 01:36:42.079 --> 01:36:47.560 Beetles level stuff. Right. If this monad was perfect and 1613 01:36:47.680 --> 01:36:53.119 in a state of unchanging invariants and flux in the primal, 1614 01:36:53.840 --> 01:36:59.479 pre temporal, whatever ideal, why was there ever this split 1615 01:36:59.720 --> 01:37:04.520 into to the diad. You see this, this one at 1616 01:37:04.560 --> 01:37:07.640 some point split into the diad. This is Plato's view. 1617 01:37:08.039 --> 01:37:12.920 This is the the ancient mystic view, right, and this 1618 01:37:13.640 --> 01:37:21.119 diad then produced you got it, a triad. And so 1619 01:37:21.319 --> 01:37:27.119 this diad that split, this caused noose, and this caused 1620 01:37:27.279 --> 01:37:31.880 the two of them together caused world soul. Now we're 1621 01:37:31.880 --> 01:37:35.640 getting now, we're getting into the world soul, right, we're 1622 01:37:35.680 --> 01:37:37.560 getting into this level of I mean, I'm not joking. 1623 01:37:37.680 --> 01:37:40.880 This is the system. This is the ancient esoteric view. 1624 01:37:41.319 --> 01:37:45.199 The monad split into the noose mine, and then the 1625 01:37:45.279 --> 01:37:49.039 monad and mine produced world soul. This is the Platonic triad. 1626 01:37:49.159 --> 01:37:51.800 This is this has nothing to do with the biblical 1627 01:37:51.840 --> 01:37:53.279 t vhe show. 1628 01:37:56.199 --> 01:37:56.319 Uh. 1629 01:37:56.840 --> 01:37:59.000 But all we have to do is just look Plato bro, 1630 01:37:59.520 --> 01:38:03.239 slow down here, dude, Like, why was there this split? 1631 01:38:03.479 --> 01:38:05.920 Come on, what does that even mean that the one 1632 01:38:06.079 --> 01:38:09.960 split to noose. And he's getting this by reading like 1633 01:38:10.159 --> 01:38:16.960 ancient mythology texts. He's taking mythology and he's saying, you know, dude, 1634 01:38:17.000 --> 01:38:19.920 there's like secret coded messages and the you know in 1635 01:38:20.000 --> 01:38:22.720 the ancient myths of you know, Zeus, and the split 1636 01:38:22.840 --> 01:38:25.680 from you know, Athena comes from Zeus. That's like telling 1637 01:38:25.800 --> 01:38:28.800 us of the original schism in the Golden Age. I mean, 1638 01:38:28.920 --> 01:38:31.560 that's what he's doing here. And do you know where 1639 01:38:31.600 --> 01:38:33.199 he says he got all this. I'm not joking, by 1640 01:38:33.239 --> 01:38:35.159 the way, if you don't know this, do you know 1641 01:38:35.199 --> 01:38:37.119 where he says he got all I'm not kidding where 1642 01:38:37.119 --> 01:38:37.920 he says he got this. 1643 01:38:39.439 --> 01:38:41.119 Whatever the Snopes was back then. 1644 01:38:42.079 --> 01:38:47.079 Oh no, it's even better. He says, I was taught 1645 01:38:47.119 --> 01:38:50.439 by a guy who was taught by a guy, right, 1646 01:38:50.439 --> 01:38:53.279 because Plato was taught by Socrates, and Socrates was taught 1647 01:38:53.279 --> 01:38:56.119 by a dude named Solon. And Solon went on this 1648 01:38:56.279 --> 01:38:59.079 journey and he talked to the priests in Egypt, and 1649 01:38:59.159 --> 01:39:04.680 the priests in Egypt told him the ancient mysteries. Literally, 1650 01:39:04.760 --> 01:39:09.159 Platonism is an ancient mystery school philosophy. So's it's a 1651 01:39:09.199 --> 01:39:12.439 hermetic philosophy of ancient ey, so he claims. I mean, 1652 01:39:12.960 --> 01:39:15.479 scholars have debated whether this is all be us anyway. 1653 01:39:15.520 --> 01:39:20.199 Point is that, look, you can't escape this mythology element. 1654 01:39:20.479 --> 01:39:22.560 And I'm using mythology in a loose sense, not in 1655 01:39:22.600 --> 01:39:24.840 the sense of everything being fake, because you could say, 1656 01:39:25.520 --> 01:39:28.399 you could say Christianity is a mythology or just a narrative. 1657 01:39:28.800 --> 01:39:31.039 What I'm getting so this is a narrative. Plato, for 1658 01:39:31.159 --> 01:39:35.840 all of his attempt at mathematizing everything, still has to 1659 01:39:35.960 --> 01:39:41.399 rely on narrative, grand narrative explanation. Darwinism still has to 1660 01:39:41.520 --> 01:39:45.359 rely on grand narrative stories. Even Aristotle, who was way 1661 01:39:45.439 --> 01:39:50.880 more scientific and empirical than Plato, still relied on narrative 1662 01:39:51.319 --> 01:39:55.479 grand stories of the first mover being love man. 1663 01:39:56.079 --> 01:39:57.840 The first mover was love dude. 1664 01:39:58.439 --> 01:40:00.880 So what I'm the point, It's just that none of 1665 01:40:00.960 --> 01:40:06.359 these philosophies can ever escape narrative story. I don't mean 1666 01:40:06.399 --> 01:40:09.119 this in the Jordan Peterson sense. I'm just stating, what's. 1667 01:40:09.000 --> 01:40:11.119 A factor wagons sneaks. 1668 01:40:13.720 --> 01:40:16.600 So therefore, so therefore, what we actually are doing when 1669 01:40:16.640 --> 01:40:19.840 we compare world views is not just comparing. You're correct 1670 01:40:19.960 --> 01:40:22.600 to say that we are comparing logical systems. We're also 1671 01:40:22.680 --> 01:40:28.119 comparing narratives, because every even the most rationalist materialist guy. 1672 01:40:29.319 --> 01:40:31.840 Let's take Birchran Russell. Remember when we did Russell. He's 1673 01:40:31.840 --> 01:40:38.159 probably the pre eminent rationalist materialist empiricists. Loosely speaking, he's 1674 01:40:38.199 --> 01:40:39.920 not rational, but you know what I mean, right, the 1675 01:40:40.000 --> 01:40:43.079 pre eminent logician, the greatest logician of the modern era, 1676 01:40:43.760 --> 01:40:46.000 which is all bullshit, but let's just say that he is. 1677 01:40:47.239 --> 01:40:52.359 He begins his book by saying rational thinkers have forever 1678 01:40:52.560 --> 01:40:57.119 been persecuted by religious dogmatists, and he lists the Hall 1679 01:40:57.239 --> 01:41:01.079 of Science, the heroes of the whole science. What's he 1680 01:41:01.199 --> 01:41:04.119 doing here? Is he doing science? No, he's telling a story. 1681 01:41:06.159 --> 01:41:11.359 And he's saying that the Galileo, Nicholas of Cusa, all 1682 01:41:11.439 --> 01:41:15.560 of these different scientists persecuted by these irrational dogmatics, the 1683 01:41:15.800 --> 01:41:18.039 Puritans burning the witches. And then we come up to 1684 01:41:18.880 --> 01:41:21.560 now we are in the era of free thought and 1685 01:41:21.800 --> 01:41:26.800 science and empirisis. He's telling a story that's not empirical evidence. 1686 01:41:26.840 --> 01:41:31.079 That's a story, right, I mean, what's his name? Hitchens 1687 01:41:31.640 --> 01:41:36.600 as charming and he'd always be like I could do 1688 01:41:36.800 --> 01:41:40.840 the world mean anything. The Andromeda is coming in great 1689 01:41:40.920 --> 01:41:43.920 nothingness is going to hit you, and and and you 1690 01:41:44.039 --> 01:41:46.039 realize you're just you're already you're doing. 1691 01:41:46.600 --> 01:41:50.479 Have you watched Have you watched Carl? Yeah, he's like, 1692 01:41:51.640 --> 01:41:56.359 we are all store were Did you hear that stupid 1693 01:41:56.439 --> 01:42:01.760 song that went viral? Remember a right? Yeah, Lawrence Krause, 1694 01:42:02.199 --> 01:42:06.840 pre eminent physicalist physical right, what does he say? We're 1695 01:42:06.880 --> 01:42:09.960 made as star dust man? Oh yeah, we're destined for 1696 01:42:10.039 --> 01:42:13.840 the stars. Again. So they're always throw in the transhumitist 1697 01:42:13.840 --> 01:42:15.800 bullshit because it's just a story they're telling you. 1698 01:42:16.840 --> 01:42:20.920 I predict Lawrence Krause will have a ponytail in within 1699 01:42:21.000 --> 01:42:21.479 ten years. 1700 01:42:22.800 --> 01:42:27.720 We're made of Uh, let's see simulation, let's talk or 1701 01:42:27.840 --> 01:42:28.920 not multiverse? 1702 01:42:29.359 --> 01:42:29.960 Multiverse? 1703 01:42:31.079 --> 01:42:31.560 Who did it come? 1704 01:42:31.840 --> 01:42:36.199 Was it the the crunched over guy? The is a 1705 01:42:36.520 --> 01:42:40.600 billion years the multi stuff? Yes? 1706 01:42:44.000 --> 01:42:44.159 Yes? 1707 01:42:44.439 --> 01:42:46.840 Is that is that where it started? That's how he 1708 01:42:47.119 --> 01:42:50.640 justified Uh you know they were they found out there 1709 01:42:50.880 --> 01:42:54.600 there wasn't actually enough energy to create the big bangs. 1710 01:42:54.680 --> 01:42:58.359 They were like, well, there's probably more universe something about this, 1711 01:42:58.439 --> 01:42:59.319 but I'll just make. 1712 01:42:59.279 --> 01:43:01.840 Up more of them. I don't remember the details. But 1713 01:43:03.720 --> 01:43:05.920 actually there's like a there is this weird I'm not 1714 01:43:06.000 --> 01:43:09.680 joking about this. By the way, there's a weird sex 1715 01:43:09.800 --> 01:43:13.039 magic component to the Big Bang stuff. Oh yeah, it's 1716 01:43:13.079 --> 01:43:15.880 it's actually evident in some of those people in their philosophy. 1717 01:43:15.960 --> 01:43:22.079 But anyway, uh yeah, I know what. That's what I'm 1718 01:43:22.079 --> 01:43:24.520 saying is that the reason we're all made of star 1719 01:43:24.640 --> 01:43:29.439 stuff and stardust, that's that's Crawley. That's all from Crowley, literally, 1720 01:43:30.439 --> 01:43:33.760 And Crawley was a he was transhumanist, like he I 1721 01:43:33.800 --> 01:43:35.279 don't know if he said the bots will take over, 1722 01:43:35.399 --> 01:43:38.319 but he thought humans would eventually storm heaven. So that's 1723 01:43:38.359 --> 01:43:41.760 what transhumanism actually is. But by the way, you can 1724 01:43:41.840 --> 01:43:45.159 ask your questions via stream labs. That's the replacement for 1725 01:43:45.199 --> 01:43:47.439 super chats. I'll put the link there. We've got a 1726 01:43:47.520 --> 01:43:49.079 lot of super chats. We're gonna get to you here 1727 01:43:49.279 --> 01:43:51.960 in a minute. Thank you all for that we got. 1728 01:43:52.199 --> 01:43:55.239 We've got a lot of generous people tonight, very very 1729 01:43:55.319 --> 01:43:56.039 thankful for all that. 1730 01:43:56.680 --> 01:43:59.920 Hawking Mary and pretty much people think. 1731 01:44:00.319 --> 01:44:03.720 It was just Stephen Hall. Dude. He's like, have you 1732 01:44:03.760 --> 01:44:05.359 ever seen when they opened up the things that the 1733 01:44:05.479 --> 01:44:07.520 little garbage cans of dolls are in. That's what they 1734 01:44:07.560 --> 01:44:09.479 look like. Stephen Hawking. I bet you he was them. 1735 01:44:11.880 --> 01:44:13.960 And when he was on Epstein's Island. By the way, 1736 01:44:14.279 --> 01:44:17.319 he was going up the hill to the little Saint 1737 01:44:17.399 --> 01:44:21.960 James Hill. Did you know his his wheelchair tipped over 1738 01:44:22.960 --> 01:44:23.800 his did it? 1739 01:44:24.119 --> 01:44:26.640 Yeah, he's just a nome. 1740 01:44:26.720 --> 01:44:31.720 What well, all of these like triple A batteries, like 1741 01:44:31.800 --> 01:44:33.960 five hundred triple A batteries fell out because this whole 1742 01:44:34.039 --> 01:44:35.800 thing runs on five A. 1743 01:44:36.800 --> 01:44:37.079 I don't know. 1744 01:44:37.159 --> 01:44:38.560 That was a stupid joke. I came out. 1745 01:44:38.560 --> 01:44:38.920 I don't know. 1746 01:44:39.319 --> 01:44:43.640 Forget that. I'm sorry. But he was actually with Epstein. 1747 01:44:43.680 --> 01:44:45.159 That's well he. 1748 01:44:45.239 --> 01:44:50.399 Got he got U was watching he got submarined into 1749 01:44:50.760 --> 01:44:56.439 epstein Island, so he went and uh, you know, I 1750 01:44:56.520 --> 01:44:58.520 don't know. That's what I actually have idea. 1751 01:44:58.840 --> 01:45:01.079 That was one of your You actually made me cry 1752 01:45:01.279 --> 01:45:06.479 with the that literally made me cry laughing? Which one 1753 01:45:06.760 --> 01:45:09.319 the one with him and oswatch shut Guard? 1754 01:45:10.079 --> 01:45:12.800 Oh yeah yeah, let me actually have this. I'll see 1755 01:45:12.800 --> 01:45:14.720 if I can get it on the screen. 1756 01:45:19.079 --> 01:45:19.880 This made me cry. 1757 01:45:22.520 --> 01:45:25.680 Tell you about my vacation. I took a plane called 1758 01:45:25.800 --> 01:45:28.880 Lowly to Express to a private island owned by a 1759 01:45:29.000 --> 01:45:31.880 man named Jeffree. I had such a good time and 1760 01:45:32.000 --> 01:45:37.039 some drinks and like some entertainment by some tasty snacks, 1761 01:45:38.039 --> 01:45:40.600 would very much like to go back because he puts 1762 01:45:40.640 --> 01:45:41.560 such a good time. 1763 01:45:41.560 --> 01:45:42.319 Ship was lit. 1764 01:45:44.159 --> 01:45:48.239 Yeah, so that's some like footage that showed up later 1765 01:45:48.560 --> 01:45:49.760 that I got ahold of. 1766 01:45:50.439 --> 01:45:52.520 By the way, you'll want I want to see more 1767 01:45:52.560 --> 01:45:57.479 of that hilarious satirical imagery from Jim Bob. You can 1768 01:45:57.600 --> 01:46:05.319 go to his ig, his instagram, and his website is linked. Multiverse. 1769 01:46:05.399 --> 01:46:08.560 One thing, one way that's easy to refute this multiverse 1770 01:46:08.600 --> 01:46:11.760 nonsense is that just as we were showing before with 1771 01:46:11.920 --> 01:46:16.359 like language, assuming a lot of principles of epistemology predication. 1772 01:46:17.039 --> 01:46:22.039 So all of these scientific theorist people and these they're 1773 01:46:22.079 --> 01:46:24.239 more like science fiction writers, is actually what they are. 1774 01:46:25.399 --> 01:46:28.479 They don't realize as we said that they're using a 1775 01:46:28.520 --> 01:46:33.600 lot of assumptions and principles objective truths just to make sentences. 1776 01:46:34.239 --> 01:46:36.359 So one thing that we do when we do philosophy, 1777 01:46:36.359 --> 01:46:39.399 Aristotle pioneered this idea of like the law of identity, 1778 01:46:40.039 --> 01:46:43.239 and in logic it is just a equals a right. 1779 01:46:43.600 --> 01:46:47.760 That's an assumption, a logical assumption that for a thing 1780 01:46:47.880 --> 01:46:51.039 to be identified or picked out or spoken of, or 1781 01:46:51.359 --> 01:46:56.600 explained or perceived or whatever to have meaning, it must 1782 01:46:56.680 --> 01:46:58.920 have identity. It must be able to be picked out 1783 01:46:58.960 --> 01:47:02.760 amongst all of these other things. So whatever that thing's 1784 01:47:02.880 --> 01:47:06.399 essence is or whatever we're doing, it has some identity. 1785 01:47:06.439 --> 01:47:11.439 It has some particular feature that makes it a one, singular, unified, 1786 01:47:11.960 --> 01:47:16.479 particular a thing, that thing as opposed to things that thing. Right, 1787 01:47:17.119 --> 01:47:20.920 So that law of identity is obviously necessary for any 1788 01:47:21.000 --> 01:47:23.920 kind of meaningful predication. For me to talk to Gembob, 1789 01:47:23.960 --> 01:47:26.119 I have to be picking out that dude right there, 1790 01:47:26.279 --> 01:47:29.119 not every single gymbob in the world, right, not every 1791 01:47:29.159 --> 01:47:34.520 single dude. So law of identity is obviously fundamental to 1792 01:47:36.359 --> 01:47:39.880 reasoning in this world, to basic predication, to knowledge. Right, 1793 01:47:41.079 --> 01:47:45.479 I know that fact? Right? That fact is that fact 1794 01:47:45.600 --> 01:47:49.800 because of the law of identity. Now, in really abstract 1795 01:47:49.920 --> 01:47:53.840 philosophy and meta level questions, it's not always going to 1796 01:47:53.920 --> 01:47:56.920 hold in this real easy, simple way, But for most 1797 01:47:56.960 --> 01:48:01.239 of the time, in normative philosophical discourse, argumentation, homology, the 1798 01:48:01.319 --> 01:48:08.079 law of identity holds. And again, that thing must be 1799 01:48:08.199 --> 01:48:10.760 that thing to talk about that thing, right, So it's 1800 01:48:10.840 --> 01:48:15.600 it's a logical assumption that's really simple. Now, we as 1801 01:48:15.680 --> 01:48:18.279 humans are a little more complex because you know, it's 1802 01:48:18.359 --> 01:48:21.119 it's a little bit more difficult to define what a 1803 01:48:21.199 --> 01:48:23.600 human is, or what Jay is, or what Jimbob is, 1804 01:48:23.840 --> 01:48:26.079 or who that person is. Right, that's that's a little 1805 01:48:26.159 --> 01:48:31.159 more difficult, a little more metaphysical, but regardless, even still 1806 01:48:31.439 --> 01:48:34.319 law of identity applies to all of us too, right, 1807 01:48:34.720 --> 01:48:37.439 I mean Jay has to be Ja to be explained 1808 01:48:37.520 --> 01:48:41.039 or known as Jay. I can't also, at the same 1809 01:48:41.119 --> 01:48:46.399 time be Jimbob. That's impossible for the created world for 1810 01:48:46.920 --> 01:48:49.520 us to reason and make sense of it. I can't 1811 01:48:49.560 --> 01:48:53.159 at the same time be not me. Ja is not Jay. 1812 01:48:53.600 --> 01:48:58.359 That's nonsense statement. Right, Jay is popcorn. That's nonsense. 1813 01:48:58.560 --> 01:48:58.680 Right. 1814 01:49:00.119 --> 01:49:06.600 So there's some static feature that something that is in 1815 01:49:06.800 --> 01:49:15.800 stasis that's perpetually true, a law of identity, a continuing 1816 01:49:15.880 --> 01:49:19.640 feature of my existence that doesn't change. I might grow 1817 01:49:19.720 --> 01:49:23.800 gray hair, it might all fall out. I might, you know, 1818 01:49:24.840 --> 01:49:27.560 have a lot of soy and grow some big old titties. 1819 01:49:27.680 --> 01:49:31.000 I mean those things might happen, but I'm still in 1820 01:49:31.159 --> 01:49:34.520 some sense the core me right. I mean, I got 1821 01:49:34.520 --> 01:49:36.800 beautiful titties now, but I might grow some big ones. Right, 1822 01:49:39.840 --> 01:49:42.560 same for you. I mean I haven't seen your titties. 1823 01:49:42.319 --> 01:49:47.199 But probably I've got dad tits now. It's like there 1824 01:49:47.920 --> 01:49:50.079 they grew a little bit from holding the baby a lot, 1825 01:49:50.720 --> 01:49:55.760 and that's just a normal reaction. But I'm keeping them 1826 01:49:55.840 --> 01:49:57.239 at a good size. 1827 01:49:57.319 --> 01:49:58.760 So we could say that the so we'll put the 1828 01:49:58.840 --> 01:50:01.079 law of identity there, But there's all so other features 1829 01:50:01.239 --> 01:50:03.760 that have occurred in time and space, in this war, 1830 01:50:03.840 --> 01:50:06.640 in this world that all kind of also go into 1831 01:50:06.720 --> 01:50:09.680 making us who we are. They might not be essential characteristics, 1832 01:50:09.760 --> 01:50:11.640 but we could say that in a way they're kind 1833 01:50:11.680 --> 01:50:17.239 of secondary necessary qualities. For example, the only me that's 1834 01:50:17.319 --> 01:50:19.880 me is the one that was born in Paris, Tennessee, right, 1835 01:50:20.199 --> 01:50:22.439 I mean I'm from Tennessee. That's where I was born. 1836 01:50:23.039 --> 01:50:25.640 That has to be that. That's in a way a 1837 01:50:25.760 --> 01:50:29.600 kind of secondary necessity about who I am. There's not 1838 01:50:29.720 --> 01:50:33.000 going to be a jay that is me that wasn't 1839 01:50:33.079 --> 01:50:37.000 also born there. You see, So even historical features of 1840 01:50:37.079 --> 01:50:39.319 our life, this is a this is an argument that 1841 01:50:39.399 --> 01:50:43.640 Leven has proposed. They're not strictly necessary in terms of 1842 01:50:43.680 --> 01:50:47.079 our essence per se, but once they've come to pass, 1843 01:50:47.640 --> 01:50:50.359 they kind of have a secondary necessity to us, and 1844 01:50:50.439 --> 01:50:52.359 that that that's not going to change. You're not going 1845 01:50:52.439 --> 01:50:56.760 to be the jimbob who was born on Epstein island, right, 1846 01:50:57.119 --> 01:51:01.239 You're not going to be that dude tomorrow. So when 1847 01:51:01.319 --> 01:51:04.520 we think about it in that way, that's who we are, 1848 01:51:04.760 --> 01:51:08.600 at least to this point in time. And it would 1849 01:51:08.640 --> 01:51:11.159 be absurd to start doubting those things. Right Like you 1850 01:51:11.239 --> 01:51:14.279 could say, well, I don't believe that the past ever occurred. Well, okay, 1851 01:51:14.399 --> 01:51:16.840 but that's gonna be that's gonna lead you into absurdities 1852 01:51:16.920 --> 01:51:18.239 to say that if you want to go that route. 1853 01:51:18.880 --> 01:51:22.800 But since we don't go that route, then those are 1854 01:51:22.840 --> 01:51:25.159 all in a way related to our identities and who 1855 01:51:25.199 --> 01:51:29.000 we are. So if we're going to even talk about me, 1856 01:51:30.199 --> 01:51:35.600 to posit that there's also me in a universe that's 1857 01:51:35.680 --> 01:51:39.840 all butts and farts, not only is that absurd, but 1858 01:51:40.680 --> 01:51:45.359 that's not me because that's violating the law of identity 1859 01:51:45.760 --> 01:51:50.079 because by definition, me is this me. I have no basis, 1860 01:51:50.199 --> 01:51:55.560 no knowledge, no way to even posit the possibility of 1861 01:51:55.680 --> 01:51:59.079 a me that's not this world me that's also over 1862 01:51:59.119 --> 01:52:04.000 there in fart dimension. It's utterly nonsense. But in order 1863 01:52:04.119 --> 01:52:07.680 to argue about that other dimension, I'm still assuming regularity 1864 01:52:07.840 --> 01:52:11.159 and the properties of identity in this world. That's why 1865 01:52:11.159 --> 01:52:12.720 it doesn't work. Right. 1866 01:52:12.880 --> 01:52:18.399 And then even if you somehow acquired even a blip 1867 01:52:18.560 --> 01:52:23.479 or a taste of that other universe. Like I said 1868 01:52:23.520 --> 01:52:26.880 at the beginning, you it would now be in this universe, 1869 01:52:27.119 --> 01:52:29.680 Like how could you separate it if you if you 1870 01:52:29.800 --> 01:52:32.319 obtained it, if you got to it, if you reached in, 1871 01:52:32.920 --> 01:52:36.880 you know, like stranger things through the weird vaginal hole 1872 01:52:37.039 --> 01:52:41.439 in the wall. It's now a part of this universe 1873 01:52:41.479 --> 01:52:44.720 in a way. Like so even even dimensions that theory 1874 01:52:44.840 --> 01:52:47.399 is like if you ever got to the point where 1875 01:52:47.439 --> 01:52:53.159 you proved it, you'd only be showing more of this reality, 1876 01:52:53.399 --> 01:52:55.640 more of this universe, exactly right. 1877 01:52:55.680 --> 01:52:58.239 I mean, yeah, there's an assumption that, yeah, let's say 1878 01:52:58.239 --> 01:53:00.840 I have a d MT trip or uh, let's say 1879 01:53:00.880 --> 01:53:03.119 that Christianity is true and I have a vision of 1880 01:53:03.199 --> 01:53:05.319 this the spirit realm like some of the prophets like 1881 01:53:05.359 --> 01:53:07.039 Ezekiel did or something like that. Let's say, for the 1882 01:53:07.079 --> 01:53:09.840 second argument, that's true. That doesn't necessitate that it's a 1883 01:53:10.199 --> 01:53:14.359 an infinite multiverse of all potentialities. That's a non sequitor. 1884 01:53:14.439 --> 01:53:16.039 I mean that could just be higher dimensions of this 1885 01:53:16.159 --> 01:53:20.439 universe exactly so. But they I mean again keep in mind, 1886 01:53:20.479 --> 01:53:23.800 the people that are believing this are total like you know, 1887 01:53:24.039 --> 01:53:26.199 just bugman type people. They don't even they don't even 1888 01:53:26.279 --> 01:53:29.680 think about the absurdities of it. They're just loving the 1889 01:53:30.199 --> 01:53:33.560 You know, we live in a multi like God doesn't exist, 1890 01:53:33.600 --> 01:53:36.720 that's all absurd. But there are infinite realities where I 1891 01:53:36.880 --> 01:53:39.119 can go be a god right back, and there's some 1892 01:53:39.239 --> 01:53:41.760 reality where I'm a god. Basically I'm lording over my 1893 01:53:42.600 --> 01:53:44.600 and I can turn you all to cheese by touching 1894 01:53:44.680 --> 01:53:47.960 you and haha, you're cheese now, and you just fall 1895 01:53:48.039 --> 01:53:49.399 onto the ground into a big puff. 1896 01:53:49.560 --> 01:53:49.640 Right. 1897 01:53:50.119 --> 01:53:52.520 I mean, that's that's the that's like the ultimate kind 1898 01:53:52.520 --> 01:53:55.880 of story fantasy, right, That's why that appeals to that 1899 01:53:56.199 --> 01:53:59.880 type of person and has do What is the imp 1900 01:54:00.000 --> 01:54:03.199 spirical basis for that nothing? I mean, all of these 1901 01:54:03.199 --> 01:54:07.479 people are science obsessed empiricists. There's no empirical evidence for 1902 01:54:07.560 --> 01:54:13.920 that nonsense dreams really Well again, I mean if that's 1903 01:54:14.000 --> 01:54:18.239 the case, then all absurdities are also real. If all 1904 01:54:18.279 --> 01:54:22.279 assertinities are real, then there is no logic. There is 1905 01:54:22.359 --> 01:54:26.680 no consistency, because how do we know that the logic 1906 01:54:26.760 --> 01:54:29.119 and rational that but that we possess in this world 1907 01:54:29.279 --> 01:54:31.840 is actually the real one or the logical consistent one. 1908 01:54:32.119 --> 01:54:34.359 Maybe there's the fart maybe in the fart dimension that's 1909 01:54:34.399 --> 01:54:37.000 actually more logical or the real one. Right, It's just 1910 01:54:37.159 --> 01:54:39.039 it all reduces to absurdity. 1911 01:54:39.079 --> 01:54:43.479 Right exactly. You'd have to Yeah, who who could Who 1912 01:54:43.520 --> 01:54:47.520 could argue the one reality is the true one to 1913 01:54:47.640 --> 01:54:50.520 measure two? I mean, you just couldn't. It would just 1914 01:54:50.640 --> 01:54:51.119 never end. 1915 01:54:51.359 --> 01:54:53.479 And by the way, I have Brian, I have Lisa 1916 01:54:53.560 --> 01:54:55.880 Randall's books. I have Brian Green's book where he I've read. 1917 01:54:56.039 --> 01:54:58.640 I know what the arguments are, and they're like, oh, well, 1918 01:54:58.880 --> 01:55:01.600 if we think about in infinite space and the fact 1919 01:55:01.640 --> 01:55:04.000 that it's going on forever, which by the way, is 1920 01:55:04.039 --> 01:55:06.239 not an empirical proof, that's just an assumption because you 1921 01:55:06.239 --> 01:55:09.319 can't empirically improve infinity going off in that direction or 1922 01:55:09.359 --> 01:55:13.159 any direction. That's just an assumption because you don't empirically 1923 01:55:13.239 --> 01:55:17.680 see something infinite, Right, you're assuming that it is light 1924 01:55:17.840 --> 01:55:19.840 goes in that direction forevery know, how do you know that? 1925 01:55:19.920 --> 01:55:22.199 You don't know that maybe it appears to it, but 1926 01:55:22.279 --> 01:55:22.840 it doesn't really. 1927 01:55:23.000 --> 01:55:23.119 Right. 1928 01:55:23.920 --> 01:55:25.720 The argument is just that, well, if we think about 1929 01:55:25.720 --> 01:55:28.680 it continuing to go, then it stands to reason that 1930 01:55:28.840 --> 01:55:31.880 at some point you would hit another universe. And if 1931 01:55:31.920 --> 01:55:34.079 you would hit another universe. It stands to reason that 1932 01:55:34.680 --> 01:55:37.479 that universe might have all the characteristics of this universe, 1933 01:55:37.560 --> 01:55:39.640 and therefore it could also be an infinite So the 1934 01:55:39.760 --> 01:55:43.000 argument is just that if things continue in all infinity, 1935 01:55:43.680 --> 01:55:50.960 in all directions, for all infinite reality, then all potentialities 1936 01:55:51.039 --> 01:55:55.159 must therefore become actualities. That's the atity of this, right. 1937 01:55:55.279 --> 01:55:58.520 So what is the basis for this? Their minds. So 1938 01:55:58.640 --> 01:56:03.199 they make their mind the godmind. This is the source 1939 01:56:03.239 --> 01:56:07.119 of logos for them, because remember, there's no logos out 1940 01:56:07.159 --> 01:56:10.319 there in the world. The world doesn't actually possess that feature. 1941 01:56:11.079 --> 01:56:14.960 It's only in here in man's mind. But man's mind 1942 01:56:15.159 --> 01:56:20.039 is not actually a logos. It's just chemical reactions. There's 1943 01:56:20.079 --> 01:56:22.840 no basis to believe. They just they just and they'll say, well, 1944 01:56:22.920 --> 01:56:25.239 let's act as if it is. Yes, we know, it's 1945 01:56:25.279 --> 01:56:28.159 just chemical reactions. We can't improve there's consciousness. Let's just 1946 01:56:28.239 --> 01:56:30.680 act as if let's play it. 1947 01:56:30.760 --> 01:56:33.920 It's funny. That's funny because the starting point doesn't even 1948 01:56:34.359 --> 01:56:40.319 uh affirm that this reality is even believable to even 1949 01:56:40.560 --> 01:56:45.920 start the exploration into other universes, you're already starting from 1950 01:56:46.000 --> 01:56:48.880 a broken, broken place where nothing could be known to 1951 01:56:48.920 --> 01:56:53.239 be true, which even though that's completely absurd, it doesn't 1952 01:56:53.279 --> 01:56:57.720 it it I'm not surprised that they can extrapolate if 1953 01:56:57.800 --> 01:57:00.279 nothing is true, then anything can be true and weird, 1954 01:57:00.479 --> 01:57:03.920 funny dumb way, you know, like you know, why why 1955 01:57:04.000 --> 01:57:06.720 can't be this? Why can't all the books behind J 1956 01:57:07.000 --> 01:57:10.239 be also you know little J, little J dyers and 1957 01:57:10.319 --> 01:57:12.159 they have a being, we just can't access them. 1958 01:57:12.199 --> 01:57:12.359 Man. 1959 01:57:13.079 --> 01:57:15.479 And then and they all found you because you are them, 1960 01:57:15.640 --> 01:57:18.800 and and they they glowed a little bit before you 1961 01:57:19.239 --> 01:57:22.720 you bought them, and like whatever, it's like we're you know, 1962 01:57:23.479 --> 01:57:26.319 we're where nothing is true than anything can be a 1963 01:57:26.479 --> 01:57:30.560 proposed sort of reality because there's no constraint. But it's 1964 01:57:30.640 --> 01:57:36.439 so dumb because you are left appealing to language needing 1965 01:57:36.560 --> 01:57:39.239 to have meaning. The words need to have meaning to 1966 01:57:39.359 --> 01:57:42.560 make the claim of metaverse, the numbers, the. 1967 01:57:42.680 --> 01:57:45.720 Logical universals, any particulars I need. 1968 01:57:45.640 --> 01:57:48.640 All Yeah, everything you said, Yeah you have to be 1969 01:57:48.760 --> 01:57:51.840 you to make to be even you know, talk about it. 1970 01:57:53.600 --> 01:57:56.840 So yeah, then there's then there's the not so you know, 1971 01:57:56.960 --> 01:58:00.640 like you were mentioned the typical like bond smoker stoners 1972 01:58:00.680 --> 01:58:03.319 who they're not really invested in it. They're just kind 1973 01:58:03.359 --> 01:58:06.560 of like like it's fun. But then there's like you know, 1974 01:58:06.760 --> 01:58:09.760 right now, there's you know, the theorists who are you know, 1975 01:58:09.920 --> 01:58:12.560 writing their novels and coming up with the next big 1976 01:58:13.520 --> 01:58:18.439 theory of all of it, and they it always leans 1977 01:58:18.520 --> 01:58:22.880 toward those those theories. Yes, where how inaccessible truth? 1978 01:58:23.319 --> 01:58:23.439 Right? 1979 01:58:24.119 --> 01:58:26.000 Is the leading proposition? 1980 01:58:26.199 --> 01:58:29.079 Basically, so, how do I refute multiverse theory by this? 1981 01:58:29.960 --> 01:58:32.079 This is the This is what the multiverse, dude is doing. 1982 01:58:32.279 --> 01:58:34.720 I use the law of identity to deny identity. That's 1983 01:58:34.880 --> 01:58:38.640 the that you ready for super chats or do you 1984 01:58:38.680 --> 01:58:39.760 want to go in another direction? 1985 01:58:40.159 --> 01:58:40.560 That's good? 1986 01:58:40.800 --> 01:58:47.800 Okay, all right, we got home, mad E t Error. 1987 01:58:48.039 --> 01:58:50.039 I'm not going to read his name because that's a 1988 01:58:51.079 --> 01:58:54.640 violation name. He sends five dollars. Thank you, Tall City 1989 01:58:55.000 --> 01:58:59.399 three five bucks. What's up, dude, Tall City. Well, we 1990 01:58:59.560 --> 01:59:03.600 know that I'm not gonna make a short joke hurt 1991 01:59:03.920 --> 01:59:07.479 people's feelings. Don don one hundred dollars, he says. Keep 1992 01:59:07.520 --> 01:59:09.079 up the good work, brother, Well, I will keep up 1993 01:59:09.079 --> 01:59:10.600 the good work as long as you send me one 1994 01:59:10.640 --> 01:59:11.279 hundred dollars. 1995 01:59:11.399 --> 01:59:11.640 Dude. 1996 01:59:11.800 --> 01:59:16.960 That's gonna feed me for an hour. John three dollars, 1997 01:59:17.039 --> 01:59:20.800 he says. If there was no Satan, but man is 1998 01:59:20.880 --> 01:59:25.079 still falling. I mean, for us, the whole narrative stands 1999 01:59:25.159 --> 01:59:27.279 or falls together, So it wouldn't really make sense to 2000 01:59:28.479 --> 01:59:31.640 speak a man falling without the temptation of Satan. But 2001 01:59:31.760 --> 01:59:33.960 he says, do you think that the world would look 2002 01:59:34.000 --> 01:59:35.520 the same as it is today? Yeah? I just think 2003 01:59:35.560 --> 01:59:38.560 that's a that's an impossible question. That's like, what if 2004 01:59:38.960 --> 01:59:41.199 you know, God created a world where there weren't humans, 2005 01:59:41.319 --> 01:59:41.920 what would. 2006 01:59:41.680 --> 01:59:41.960 It be like? 2007 01:59:42.000 --> 01:59:42.319 I don't know. 2008 01:59:43.039 --> 01:59:46.720 Mac Marco ten dollars. Have you ever heard of the 2009 01:59:47.159 --> 01:59:51.760 mathematicians that deny the existence of infinity? Yes, it makes 2010 01:59:53.960 --> 02:00:01.199 sense from a materialistic worldview. Too bad, materialism itself is flawed. 2011 02:00:01.399 --> 02:00:01.600 Yeah. 2012 02:00:01.720 --> 02:00:04.479 I mean, at a certain point, those people are kind 2013 02:00:04.520 --> 02:00:07.640 of just talking in circles and they're they're using words 2014 02:00:07.680 --> 02:00:09.359 and then turning around saying, well, but we don't Actually 2015 02:00:09.640 --> 02:00:14.359 there's potentially an infinite number of numbers, but they're also 2016 02:00:14.520 --> 02:00:17.640 not really infinite. Or we can divide the number one 2017 02:00:17.840 --> 02:00:19.960 infinite number of times, but infinity is not actually a 2018 02:00:20.000 --> 02:00:25.159 real thing. Okay, well, but all of these other scientism 2019 02:00:25.279 --> 02:00:30.439 proponents proposed that the universe is infinite, So now it's not. 2020 02:00:30.600 --> 02:00:33.319 You see, it's it's just constant, like it's just people 2021 02:00:33.439 --> 02:00:35.319 making Shut up, dude, that's what it is. That's that 2022 02:00:35.439 --> 02:00:36.199 some point. What do you think? 2023 02:00:37.760 --> 02:00:39.239 Yeah, that sounds about right. 2024 02:00:39.359 --> 02:00:42.159 There's a great quote of we need to find this quote. 2025 02:00:42.199 --> 02:00:44.720 It was somewhere on YouTube, but it's William Shatner and 2026 02:00:44.800 --> 02:00:47.119 he was talking about hanging out with like NASA people, 2027 02:00:47.319 --> 02:00:51.079 and then he saw the you know, supposed NASA stuff 2028 02:00:51.159 --> 02:00:53.439 and he went and toured it, like the ships and whatnot. 2029 02:00:53.800 --> 02:00:56.720 Then he met with all these NASA people and heard 2030 02:00:56.840 --> 02:00:59.399 a bunch of their lectures and he said, my god, 2031 02:00:59.600 --> 02:01:03.119 I really it's all just theory, right, he said, He 2032 02:01:03.239 --> 02:01:06.319 literally says, it's a sciences not a theory. 2033 02:01:06.439 --> 02:01:08.239 Look just look at that real footage. 2034 02:01:08.960 --> 02:01:13.760 But but William Shatner says, think about he's Captain Kirk 2035 02:01:13.920 --> 02:01:16.439 and he's working with all these science fiction writers. He 2036 02:01:16.560 --> 02:01:19.680 meets all these science guys and he says, it's not 2037 02:01:19.760 --> 02:01:21.520 a convention. Actually, if you find the video on YouTube, 2038 02:01:21.520 --> 02:01:23.920 it's him at a convention being interviewed and he says, 2039 02:01:23.960 --> 02:01:27.680 I realized the scientists at NASA are no different than 2040 02:01:28.119 --> 02:01:31.840 the science fiction writers that work on the show, because 2041 02:01:31.840 --> 02:01:37.000 they're just making it up. Yeah, annoying questions. Three bucks. 2042 02:01:38.439 --> 02:01:43.640 Why do you need incoherent models to compare your model 2043 02:01:43.680 --> 02:01:46.880 to to justify your model? I don't need them, but 2044 02:01:47.279 --> 02:01:50.000 there are incoherent models, and so it's kind of just 2045 02:01:50.079 --> 02:01:52.399 an unavoidable thing. That's like saying, why do you need 2046 02:01:52.479 --> 02:01:55.199 a bad argument to compare to a good argument? I mean, 2047 02:01:55.600 --> 02:01:58.279 there are bad arguments. So how else are you going 2048 02:01:58.359 --> 02:02:02.079 to compare bad art arguments other than comparing them to 2049 02:02:02.239 --> 02:02:05.279 good arguments? I mean that's kind of like unavoidable, bro, 2050 02:02:05.800 --> 02:02:10.960 But I appreciate that. Three dollars. You're banning your your 2051 02:02:11.279 --> 02:02:15.479 urban moving systems, You're banning movings, your band to six 2052 02:02:15.600 --> 02:02:18.079 seventy eight YouTube? Do you monetize you? 2053 02:02:18.199 --> 02:02:18.399 Yes? 2054 02:02:19.840 --> 02:02:24.359 I love your essential hero video response to mister Guta 2055 02:02:24.439 --> 02:02:27.119 main Hyde. I watched it so many times like a 2056 02:02:27.239 --> 02:02:30.079 sperg Yes, Sam liked it too. I sent it to 2057 02:02:30.159 --> 02:02:31.960 him he got a kick out of it. Thank you 2058 02:02:32.039 --> 02:02:35.439 for that. Shaw'sby thirteen five dollars. Do you think atheists 2059 02:02:35.560 --> 02:02:37.520 are by the way, I'm not trying to leave you out, Jimbob, 2060 02:02:37.560 --> 02:02:42.880 if you want to say anything, super chats. Do you 2061 02:02:42.960 --> 02:02:48.079 think atheists are hesitant to try to justify their presuppositions 2062 02:02:48.159 --> 02:02:52.960 out of bad faith. Yeah, often, what do you think. 2063 02:02:55.640 --> 02:02:59.199 Yeah, I mean I think I think it's also out 2064 02:02:59.239 --> 02:03:03.039 of like I think there's a level I remember, just 2065 02:03:03.239 --> 02:03:06.439 not too long ago, I mean two years ago or 2066 02:03:06.560 --> 02:03:09.720 two and a half years ago, I was pretty staunch atheist, 2067 02:03:09.920 --> 02:03:14.680 and there was a shame factor of like not shame, 2068 02:03:14.880 --> 02:03:17.119 like you don't want to go out on a ledge 2069 02:03:17.399 --> 02:03:24.399 where you look silly or you start, you know, playing 2070 02:03:24.479 --> 02:03:27.760 with ideas that you cannot base in material because your 2071 02:03:27.920 --> 02:03:31.119 whole crew is all like, yes, science man, you know, 2072 02:03:31.319 --> 02:03:34.199 like and so you don't want to explore these things. 2073 02:03:34.319 --> 02:03:37.279 So there's a little bit of like the same phenomenon 2074 02:03:37.359 --> 02:03:40.880 of wearing face mask, you know, it's like but that's 2075 02:03:40.920 --> 02:03:44.560 why I think the conversations are for those people who 2076 02:03:45.399 --> 02:03:47.880 are in that place and they do want to explore 2077 02:03:47.960 --> 02:03:51.720 truth and be challenged. They exist. But like Jay said, 2078 02:03:51.800 --> 02:03:54.560 you know, like casting the net, it's going to be 2079 02:03:54.600 --> 02:03:58.760 a lower percentage yield, but it'll really make a difference 2080 02:04:00.079 --> 02:04:02.720 for the people that are interested, and they won't know 2081 02:04:02.880 --> 02:04:06.840 to be interested unless you're also having the conversation and talking. 2082 02:04:07.239 --> 02:04:11.039 Just like myself, I was interested and I found the 2083 02:04:11.159 --> 02:04:14.079 right people, you know, and I approached them, you know, 2084 02:04:15.119 --> 02:04:18.680 I went on on Jay's show, I went on Owen's show. 2085 02:04:18.800 --> 02:04:23.960 I was prodded, you know what I mean. So, I mean, 2086 02:04:24.000 --> 02:04:28.359 I guess you're right, but also don't discard them, you know, 2087 02:04:28.600 --> 02:04:33.640 don't you know, don't just embarrass an atheists. 2088 02:04:33.319 --> 02:04:33.520 You know. 2089 02:04:34.640 --> 02:04:38.479 Yeah, that's good points. Penny Row five dollars. Thank you 2090 02:04:38.560 --> 02:04:41.840 for this conversation. I'm really in loving it. I love you, Jim, Bob, 2091 02:04:42.000 --> 02:04:47.199 Penny Rou Thanks Pennyrou, dan Man five bucks. What do 2092 02:04:47.239 --> 02:04:50.640 you think about the prophecies of Saint Pizis, Cosmos Elder, 2093 02:04:50.800 --> 02:04:55.720 Joseph Elder, Joseph on Haigio, Sofia, recapturing Constantinople. Yeah, I mean, 2094 02:04:55.720 --> 02:04:58.920 I've seen these for a decade. I'm not totally discounting them. 2095 02:04:58.960 --> 02:05:01.720 But sometimes these things are made up, Sometimes they're forgery, 2096 02:05:01.840 --> 02:05:05.279 sometimes they're used for geopolitical motivations. I don't really have 2097 02:05:05.359 --> 02:05:08.159 any opinion on them, so I hope I didn't hurt 2098 02:05:08.199 --> 02:05:12.159 your feelings there. But I'm more interested in what I 2099 02:05:12.399 --> 02:05:15.640 can argue and confirm, you know, from scripture, that kind 2100 02:05:15.640 --> 02:05:19.600 of stuff. But I'm not discounting that there can be 2101 02:05:19.800 --> 02:05:24.159 real clairvoyance. Absolutely. Lone star twenty bucks. I appreciate y'all's work. 2102 02:05:24.199 --> 02:05:28.119 I can literally feel my brain expanding making new connections 2103 02:05:28.159 --> 02:05:31.520 every time I watch y'all's stuff. Thank you very much. 2104 02:05:31.600 --> 02:05:34.920 And yeah, Jim Bob is also very based and good 2105 02:05:35.000 --> 02:05:37.680 at I see him in the comments. Man, he just 2106 02:05:37.760 --> 02:05:40.520 kind of dissects these people like like a surgeon. Dude. 2107 02:05:40.520 --> 02:05:40.840 He's like. 2108 02:05:42.640 --> 02:05:43.399 Just cutting them up. 2109 02:05:43.439 --> 02:05:48.039 Baby, He's like a ninja with arguments. He's getting really 2110 02:05:48.079 --> 02:05:51.760 good at debate. Rusty Shackle for fifty bucks. The way 2111 02:05:51.800 --> 02:05:53.680 that you two guys chat, by the way, that's a 2112 02:05:53.720 --> 02:05:56.119 fat super chat. I thank you, Rusty. The way YouTube 2113 02:05:56.199 --> 02:06:00.279 chat seems to make philosophical terms easier for or my 2114 02:06:00.479 --> 02:06:03.399 low IQ self. Don't talk about yourself like that, Rusty. 2115 02:06:04.279 --> 02:06:06.560 Thank you and God bless well. Glad that we can 2116 02:06:06.640 --> 02:06:09.560 make these things accessible. That's that's kind of the point. 2117 02:06:10.239 --> 02:06:13.000 That's also why I really enjoyed coming on, as I'm 2118 02:06:13.359 --> 02:06:19.439 a novice still logic, philosophy, theism and uh and uh 2119 02:06:19.800 --> 02:06:23.680 a part of my you know, back and forth with 2120 02:06:23.880 --> 02:06:29.039 Jay it actually forces him out of the higher level terminology, 2121 02:06:29.520 --> 02:06:31.800 you know, because that is used to debating with people 2122 02:06:31.920 --> 02:06:35.600 or talking because it's just like an established level of 2123 02:06:35.880 --> 02:06:41.399 uh you know, words, definitions and things like that, and uh, 2124 02:06:41.840 --> 02:06:45.479 you know it's uh it's helpful. You know, it's helpful 2125 02:06:45.600 --> 02:06:50.039 for for him to, uh Jay, for you to you know, 2126 02:06:50.920 --> 02:06:53.279 dumb it down for someone who's at my level, because 2127 02:06:53.279 --> 02:06:55.079 there's a lot of there's a lot more people at 2128 02:06:55.119 --> 02:06:59.159 my level than at your level. And so, you know, 2129 02:06:59.640 --> 02:07:02.279 I mean even when you went on you know, what's 2130 02:07:02.319 --> 02:07:05.560 his name, he was even lost in some terms Stefan. 2131 02:07:05.720 --> 02:07:08.119 He was like, you just like educate me. I haven't 2132 02:07:08.520 --> 02:07:11.039 heard of any of these things, you know. So that 2133 02:07:11.239 --> 02:07:14.880 just shows like there is a there's a pool of 2134 02:07:15.000 --> 02:07:18.199 people who are really interested in this stuff, but there 2135 02:07:18.279 --> 02:07:21.359 has to be an accessible layer. 2136 02:07:21.239 --> 02:07:24.680 To it, you know, right, Thanks Man, I appreciate that 2137 02:07:24.760 --> 02:07:29.279 those kind of words. Anybody interested in what we talked 2138 02:07:29.319 --> 02:07:32.119 about tonight, I highly recommend doctor Jason Lyles's little book, 2139 02:07:32.199 --> 02:07:35.600 Ultimate Proof. It's a really good introduction to the topics 2140 02:07:35.680 --> 02:07:39.560 that we have been discussing at an accessible level. It's 2141 02:07:39.640 --> 02:07:42.920 not written for the technical philosopher person. It's written at 2142 02:07:43.199 --> 02:07:47.439 a pretty accessible level. Dan Man three dollars. Again, he says, 2143 02:07:47.439 --> 02:07:49.079 do you know about electric universe theory? 2144 02:07:49.199 --> 02:07:49.319 Yes? 2145 02:07:49.439 --> 02:07:49.600 I do. 2146 02:07:49.680 --> 02:07:53.359 I've watched many of those videos eight years ago when 2147 02:07:53.359 --> 02:07:55.239 they first proposed it. I followed it for a while, 2148 02:07:55.319 --> 02:07:59.159 listening to the podcast for a while. I don't I'm 2149 02:07:59.199 --> 02:08:02.279 not saying it's all. I don't know. I love to 2150 02:08:02.359 --> 02:08:06.119 hear different theories. It would be very cool if electric 2151 02:08:06.159 --> 02:08:09.680 universe theory was correct. It sounds pretty I don't know, 2152 02:08:09.880 --> 02:08:13.720 like I mean, lightning and shit, that's just cool, right, 2153 02:08:13.880 --> 02:08:14.279 I don't know. 2154 02:08:14.680 --> 02:08:14.760 But. 2155 02:08:16.479 --> 02:08:18.880 Jimbob, do you have any opinion on it? 2156 02:08:19.479 --> 02:08:22.680 I probably only watched like one video, probably not the 2157 02:08:23.279 --> 02:08:27.439 person you're talking about, But I mean, like you said, 2158 02:08:27.520 --> 02:08:30.760 it sounds cool. It's hard to like really understand it 2159 02:08:30.760 --> 02:08:36.720 because you're actually taking you know, terms and paradigms that 2160 02:08:36.800 --> 02:08:42.439 are in the physical natural physical and trying to, you know, 2161 02:08:42.600 --> 02:08:46.199 create a model out there that we can't access. And 2162 02:08:47.560 --> 02:08:50.479 it kind of forces you to explain, you know, how 2163 02:08:50.520 --> 02:08:53.800 you were saying the things, you know, like the Bonson thing. 2164 02:08:53.960 --> 02:08:56.359 I was just watching your review of the Bonson debate 2165 02:08:56.479 --> 02:08:59.359 or whatever. Oh yeah, Steining or whatever, and like that 2166 02:08:59.520 --> 02:09:02.680 that key point where the things that you know to 2167 02:09:02.760 --> 02:09:06.800 be true aren't accessed or debated or proven the same way. 2168 02:09:07.079 --> 02:09:10.720 You know, and so electric sounds like it, doesn't it 2169 02:09:10.760 --> 02:09:14.960 still doesn't account for the immaterial absolutes we deal with. 2170 02:09:15.920 --> 02:09:18.640 Yeah, necessarily crackers in the pantry fallacies. 2171 02:09:19.079 --> 02:09:20.960 Not that it not that it claims to. It's just 2172 02:09:21.039 --> 02:09:26.960 that my interest is where, you know, the material intersects 2173 02:09:27.039 --> 02:09:31.760 with the mind and the the preconditions for what we're 2174 02:09:31.800 --> 02:09:37.000 doing thinking, talking. But uh, it sounds cool, sounds like 2175 02:09:37.039 --> 02:09:38.680 something I could listen to. I mean, I have a 2176 02:09:38.760 --> 02:09:40.920 lot of time, all what was the what is that 2177 02:09:41.079 --> 02:09:44.600 the name of the YouTube, the Electric Universe is that's 2178 02:09:44.760 --> 02:09:45.720 the actual name of it. 2179 02:09:47.560 --> 02:09:50.720 I think that is their channel. I forget the dude's name. 2180 02:09:51.479 --> 02:09:52.119 I'll look it up. 2181 02:09:52.439 --> 02:09:55.399 But anyway, I'm also recommended to if you're new to 2182 02:09:55.479 --> 02:09:57.079 these topics and you want to kind of get into 2183 02:09:57.159 --> 02:09:59.960 the mindset, I recommend the Quadrnion book. It's really good. 2184 02:10:00.600 --> 02:10:03.479 It kind of ties a lot of these seemingly disparate 2185 02:10:03.560 --> 02:10:07.079 areas of the relationship between math and numbers in the 2186 02:10:07.239 --> 02:10:11.199 in the world together. So anyway, everybody would be sure 2187 02:10:11.279 --> 02:10:14.479 and go follow Jimball, but his sights and his his 2188 02:10:14.840 --> 02:10:15.319 there's another. 2189 02:10:15.439 --> 02:10:20.720 Here's another, really insanely I have. I have complex philosophical book, 2190 02:10:21.239 --> 02:10:26.359 Savage Meanings Volume two with the Corunka and that means. 2191 02:10:26.319 --> 02:10:29.000 Randy Savage means literally every meme is Randy. 2192 02:10:29.119 --> 02:10:32.760 Right, made by Jimbob dot com. 2193 02:10:34.399 --> 02:10:37.800 All right, y'all, thank you very much. God bless everybody good. 2194 02:10:37.960 --> 02:10:40.319 Have a good night. And uh, by the way, I 2195 02:10:40.439 --> 02:10:45.399 have for those that are wondering, I'm I'm halfway through 2196 02:10:45.520 --> 02:10:49.000 Klaus Schwab's World Economic Forum books, so that will be 2197 02:10:49.039 --> 02:10:52.239 the next book. Probably do it maybe tomorrow. Uh So 2198 02:10:52.319 --> 02:10:55.720 I've been eager to do the head of Davos's book 2199 02:10:55.840 --> 02:10:58.079 because guess what, he lays it all out. So I'm 2200 02:10:58.079 --> 02:11:00.239 gonna lay it all out for y'all, uh in the 2201 02:11:00.319 --> 02:11:00.840 next dream. 2202 02:11:01.399 --> 02:11:04.840 Thank you, Jim Bob, thank you, Thanks, thanks everybody. 2203 02:11:04.840 --> 02:11:06.760 It's a pleasure see yep.