1 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: This is Pet Life Radio. 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 2: Let's talk pets. 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,519 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Human Animal Connection Show, where we believe 4 00:00:10,599 --> 00:00:14,439 we can communicate with all animals. Join us as we 5 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,760 explore the thirty three principles and healing methods of the 6 00:00:17,839 --> 00:00:21,519 Human Animal Connection. As animal lovers, we know that you 7 00:00:21,679 --> 00:00:24,800 share our commitment to making the world a kinder place 8 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:29,559 for all creatures. Together, let's embrace the transformative healing power 9 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,759 of the Human Animal Connection. O. 10 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 2: Everyone, welcome to the Human Animal Connection. My name is 11 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,840 Genie Joseph. I'm the founder, and you're a host of 12 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,439 the Human Animal Connection podcast. And I'm delighted to have 13 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:47,039 Shell Graves with me. She is both an animal chaplain 14 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,920 and a dog and cat behavioral specialist, and she does 15 00:00:52,039 --> 00:00:56,759 services virtually and in person in the Seattle area. So Shell, 16 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:57,960 welcome to the show. 17 00:00:58,359 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. 18 00:01:00,439 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 2: It's great to have you. It's great to have you. Now, 19 00:01:03,399 --> 00:01:05,040 just tell the folks a little bit in case they 20 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,200 don't know, you and I are both animal chaplains. But 21 00:01:07,239 --> 00:01:10,159 in case people don't know what that means, give us 22 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,719 a little explanation of what an animal chaplain might do. 23 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:18,239 Speaker 3: Yes, So, an animal chaplain is someone who provides emotional 24 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:23,840 and spiritual care for people who care deeply about animals 25 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:28,799 and often for the animals themselves, so that can be 26 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:34,840 providing cooperative care, emotional support, help at end of life, 27 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,920 help with animals who are grieving. 28 00:01:39,439 --> 00:01:43,439 Speaker 2: The whole range of experience that people and animals who 29 00:01:43,439 --> 00:01:47,719 share their lives go through. Definitely, definitely, Well, let's talk 30 00:01:47,799 --> 00:01:51,599 a little bit about Let's start with how we can 31 00:01:51,599 --> 00:01:54,640 boost the happiness of the animals who share their lives 32 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,200 with us, cats, dogs, or whomever. What are some ideas 33 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:00,640 that you have that can help our audience to make 34 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,359 sure that they're happy their animals are happier living with them. 35 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:08,479 Speaker 3: Yes, So, before I became an animal chaplain and worked 36 00:02:08,599 --> 00:02:11,879 as Shell Graves animal consulting, I worked in shelter and 37 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,360 rescue for seven years and we did a lot of 38 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:20,680 the animals there came from cruelty and neglect situations, so 39 00:02:20,719 --> 00:02:24,879 they were experiencing a lot of fear, stress, anxiety, and frustration. 40 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,159 I learned a lot there and we did a lot 41 00:02:28,199 --> 00:02:31,439 of things there to help reduce their fear, anxiety, and 42 00:02:31,479 --> 00:02:36,080 stress and help them feel more confident, at ease, playful, 43 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,639 and safe. And I realized that while the animals in 44 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,599 our homes. They are fortunate they have us. They still 45 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:50,879 do experience some stress from just you know, being animals 46 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,199 trying to fit into our human world and our huge routines, 47 00:02:54,879 --> 00:02:59,240 and they do experience stress for things like waiting waiting 48 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,560 for us to get home, waiting for us to be 49 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:07,599 done with our work. If we're already at home, you know, 50 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,439 they're often in a little bit of a stress pattern 51 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,360 waiting for us to spend time with them. So there 52 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:15,599 are things that we can do, And I first of all, 53 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,479 I want to say thank you to everyone because you're 54 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,680 already doing the number one thing that can be helpful, 55 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:27,599 which is your thinking about your animal's happiness. So that 56 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,560 really is, you know, maybe a different approach, not just 57 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,000 thinking about, you know, how the animal can benefit you 58 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,840 in the home, but how you can think about making 59 00:03:37,919 --> 00:03:42,680 their life richer and happier. You're already doing that just 60 00:03:42,719 --> 00:03:47,719 by listening to this podcast. So feel reassured you're doing good. 61 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 2: Good you're a good person. 62 00:03:50,719 --> 00:03:54,919 Speaker 3: The other thing that you can do that is really 63 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,800 helpful is to know what it looks like when your 64 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,080 dog or cat or the animal living in your home. 65 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,800 What does it look like when they're happy animals are 66 00:04:03,919 --> 00:04:07,840 always talking to us, but they're using their body language. 67 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,120 They have a different way of expressing. They don't speak 68 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:15,120 our language, but they are always communicating with us. So 69 00:04:15,759 --> 00:04:18,000 really getting to know what it looks like when your 70 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:23,560 individual a dog and cat animal companion, what it looks 71 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,279 like when they're happy, and then you can also if 72 00:04:26,319 --> 00:04:30,959 you're not sure, you can ask them. So I recommend 73 00:04:31,079 --> 00:04:34,240 doing consent tests. So if you're not sure if your 74 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,720 animal is enjoying something, say you're petting your animal if 75 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:41,360 it's a new rescue, pause for a few seconds, watch 76 00:04:41,399 --> 00:04:44,680 their reaction and they just tell you how. 77 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,199 Speaker 2: They actualing about that in the interaction. 78 00:04:47,519 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 3: Also ask their preferences, you know, do they prefer this 79 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,920 treat or that treat? You can ask them if that's 80 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,439 something that they enjoy and they'll tell you. You know, 81 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:02,040 which is their favorite food, what is their favorite game. 82 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,319 Just knowing what their favorite things are is another way 83 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:06,680 to really boost their happiness. 84 00:05:07,199 --> 00:05:09,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's so important. Like you mentioned example, I 85 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,079 also volunteered and shelter for years and years, and it's 86 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,839 really important to pay attention. We talk about in the 87 00:05:15,879 --> 00:05:19,160 human animal connection, the towards and away signal is the 88 00:05:19,199 --> 00:05:21,639 animal giving you a towards meaning yes, I like this, 89 00:05:21,759 --> 00:05:24,920 do more of it, or no, this is making you uncomfortable. 90 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,680 I don't want any more of this. And sometimes it 91 00:05:27,759 --> 00:05:30,720 can be very subtle. It can be a change of eyes. 92 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,160 You know, they're looking away or turning their head away 93 00:05:33,319 --> 00:05:36,800 or moving away. Sometimes it's very obvious, like leaving, you know, 94 00:05:36,879 --> 00:05:40,120 but sometimes it's subtler. And so, as you mentioned, that 95 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,720 pause technique is very powerful to just stop doing what 96 00:05:43,759 --> 00:05:45,600 you're doing, even though you think it might be a 97 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:47,600 great thing, and it might be many times, it may 98 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:52,240 or may not be perfect in this moment, yes, So 99 00:05:52,439 --> 00:05:54,759 just giving yourself the chance to pause and get a 100 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,319 sense of yes or no towards her way is the 101 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,759 animal lean back into you and look at you like 102 00:05:59,759 --> 00:06:02,000 why did you stop petting? Or did the animal get 103 00:06:02,079 --> 00:06:04,000 up and go once they felt they had the choice 104 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,480 to do that. So, yeah, that's so important. That's really good. 105 00:06:06,959 --> 00:06:09,040 All right, what's another way that we can The. 106 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,519 Speaker 3: Third thing that I think is really important is to 107 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:18,160 let your animal have hobbies. So there are so many 108 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:23,319 things that you know, in our homes we may say 109 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,800 that we don't want them to dig or scratch a 110 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,439 lot of times we find ourselves saying no to our animals. 111 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:32,720 So one of the best things you can do is 112 00:06:32,759 --> 00:06:35,879 look for ways to say yes. Imagine if you weren't 113 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,319 able to do your favorite things. What if you couldn't 114 00:06:38,319 --> 00:06:41,720 go see movies or do crafting, or play your favorite 115 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,560 sport or watch your favorite TV show? How would you 116 00:06:44,639 --> 00:06:47,839 feel about that? And a lot of times our animals 117 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,720 are in that situation where the things they want to do, 118 00:06:51,399 --> 00:06:54,480 you know, dogs love to forage, cats want to hunt. 119 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,720 They are not given those opportunities. And we do our 120 00:06:57,759 --> 00:07:02,240 animals a disservice when we make life too boring, too easy, 121 00:07:02,399 --> 00:07:05,439 and we don't let them have hobbies so they can 122 00:07:05,519 --> 00:07:10,399 express their natural behaviors. This is what we love about animals. 123 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:15,199 We love their behavior. We love it when they are playful, 124 00:07:15,399 --> 00:07:20,959 when they are wagging their bodies, doing the things that 125 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:23,879 in the way that they do them that maybe we don't. 126 00:07:23,959 --> 00:07:26,360 Those are what we love about them. So give them 127 00:07:26,399 --> 00:07:31,120 ways to express those natural dog behaviors and cat behaviors 128 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,560 so that they can enjoy those two. 129 00:07:34,639 --> 00:07:37,199 Speaker 2: So what's an example of how we could mimic some 130 00:07:37,319 --> 00:07:40,040 natural behaviors for dogs? And if they're living with us 131 00:07:40,079 --> 00:07:42,600 in a house or apartment or something that's not there. 132 00:07:43,399 --> 00:07:46,600 It's not nature. What can they do that would mimic that. 133 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 3: So one of the things that we do, you know, 134 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:55,480 feeding time is a really important one, and sometimes we 135 00:07:55,639 --> 00:07:59,399 just give them the food in a bowl and so 136 00:07:59,639 --> 00:08:02,000 that it's kind of a boring way to go about it. 137 00:08:03,279 --> 00:08:06,399 Think about it. It's all it's always fast food. Sometimes 138 00:08:06,399 --> 00:08:10,319 you want to have a fine dining approach either. Sometimes 139 00:08:10,319 --> 00:08:13,199 you want to have a picnic, so you can give 140 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:18,399 them those same meals. And again, you you know your 141 00:08:18,439 --> 00:08:23,199 animal best, so you know what their preferences are. So 142 00:08:23,519 --> 00:08:26,040 don't always take my word for it. You will want 143 00:08:26,079 --> 00:08:29,959 to know what your animal prefers. But you might consider 144 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,360 seeing if they would like some different ways to enjoy 145 00:08:33,399 --> 00:08:38,799 their meals. So those could be food puzzles. You can 146 00:08:39,519 --> 00:08:44,360 offer the the you know, treat scatters. You can offer 147 00:08:44,399 --> 00:08:47,279 the kibbles scattered outside if that's in a safe way 148 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,799 for dogs so that they can hunt and forge, or 149 00:08:50,879 --> 00:08:54,440 use a snuffle mat. You can use lick mats for 150 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,480 wet food. So there's lots of different ways that animals 151 00:08:58,519 --> 00:09:01,919 can enjoy the meal. It doesn't have to be In addition, 152 00:09:02,039 --> 00:09:04,480 it can be the same food that you've been feeding them, 153 00:09:04,919 --> 00:09:07,519 but offer them different ways to enjoy it so they 154 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,679 have to work for it. Give dogs ways to forage, 155 00:09:10,799 --> 00:09:14,799 cats ways to hunt, and some of those can be 156 00:09:14,879 --> 00:09:19,919 pretty simple. So my cat Mary Shelley, she uses the 157 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,320 Tricksy activity feeder, so she has an activity board where 158 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,240 she has to put her little paws in and dig 159 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:29,279 out the food. Gives her a different way to get that. 160 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,639 Or even some simple things like you can take your 161 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,759 toilet paper rolls that you have and instead of just 162 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,000 tossing those out, you can put a piece of kibble 163 00:09:39,159 --> 00:09:42,840 or a treat inside and fold the ends and give 164 00:09:42,879 --> 00:09:44,840 that to them as a way that they have to 165 00:09:44,919 --> 00:09:47,519 enjoy it. That's good for both dogs and cats. 166 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:53,279 Speaker 2: That's excellent. So creating some movement, creating some efforts where 167 00:09:53,279 --> 00:09:56,639 they have to use their paws or teeth or something 168 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,399 to get something, so that they're working a little to 169 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:05,000 get the food, and the stimulation of that mentally and 170 00:10:05,039 --> 00:10:09,519 physically makes that whole experience just a little bit more active, 171 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,840 I guess, as opposed to just put the food down 172 00:10:11,879 --> 00:10:14,039 and they get it, which sometimes, you know, hey, that's 173 00:10:14,039 --> 00:10:17,759 fine too, but sometimes to have that variation I think 174 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:22,200 is what you're suggesting. Yeah, perfect, perfect, Yeah, So tell 175 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:23,840 me a little bit. You have a story about Lili 176 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,799 and Tish too rescues. What's the story about them and 177 00:10:27,039 --> 00:10:27,480 the water? 178 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:32,759 Speaker 3: Yes. Another good thing to do is to think about 179 00:10:32,759 --> 00:10:35,919 the ways that animals experience the world. So when we're 180 00:10:35,919 --> 00:10:43,279 trying to give them more hobbies, think about how they see, smell, taste, 181 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:47,320 touch and enjoy the world in different ways. And so 182 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,120 Lilian Tish came to me. I went out on their rescue, 183 00:10:51,279 --> 00:10:54,519 their two little dogs. I was on my way to 184 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,440 a rescue, and this goes back to how I became 185 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:01,759 an animal chaplain. I was working out a sanctuary. We 186 00:11:01,799 --> 00:11:06,480 rescued dogs from dogs, cats, and farmed animals from cruelty 187 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:11,879 and neglect situations. And many of those animals, especially the 188 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:18,000 farmed animals, were not really meant to live long, healthy lives. 189 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,600 You know, their role is usually in the food industry. 190 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,840 So rescuing a cow or pig that's going to live 191 00:11:25,919 --> 00:11:28,679 in a full adult life, it came with a lot 192 00:11:28,759 --> 00:11:32,320 of medical issues and a lot of grief and loss 193 00:11:32,759 --> 00:11:37,360 as the animals died, not living to full long lives. 194 00:11:38,519 --> 00:11:43,279 So I was thinking about animal chaplaincy and learning about that, 195 00:11:43,399 --> 00:11:46,360 and I went on this rescue, driving five hours across 196 00:11:46,399 --> 00:11:48,799 the state. We were going to rescue a bunch of 197 00:11:48,919 --> 00:11:52,879 little dogs, and we'd known that they were in some 198 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:59,120 very rough, difficult conditions for months before we were able 199 00:11:59,159 --> 00:12:02,039 to go out and find only get permission to go 200 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,919 rescue them with the organization. So I thought, it's a 201 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,360 five hour drive. I was driving by myself this little 202 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,519 of the pandemic, so we weren't sitting next to each 203 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:14,679 other in the car. I had to take my van 204 00:12:15,279 --> 00:12:18,679 all by myself, and I thought I'll listen to audio books, 205 00:12:19,279 --> 00:12:23,000 but I found myself really thinking about these dogs, and 206 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:27,960 I ended up not listening to anything and just meditating 207 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:33,600 on these dogs, singing songs to them that we were coming, 208 00:12:34,159 --> 00:12:39,200 uh and and praying that yeah, okay, was it not there? 209 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,960 And I realized that, you know, they didn't know when 210 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,559 we were coming. And it happened a lot of a 211 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:50,679 lot of times and rescues too, that sometimes we could 212 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,240 do a lot for the animals and they would still 213 00:12:53,759 --> 00:12:58,840 not survive. And other times the animals, even with you know, 214 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,480 even with when we weren't able to get there right away, 215 00:13:02,519 --> 00:13:06,120 they would still make it. So there was something there 216 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:10,759 was something within those animals or greater than themselves that 217 00:13:10,919 --> 00:13:13,879 was part of them. It's not just about us. The 218 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,799 animals themselves are also part of their own rescue and part. 219 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 2: Of their own yes, yes, yeah, they have their own destiny. 220 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:22,240 Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. 221 00:13:22,279 --> 00:13:26,759 Speaker 3: So we went out to find these little dogs, and 222 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:31,879 the neighbors cheered when we arrived to rescue that. The 223 00:13:32,039 --> 00:13:34,360 vet said that they were in some of the worst 224 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,720 conditions that he'd ever seen, but they they were able 225 00:13:38,799 --> 00:13:42,039 to make it. But what a couple of things that 226 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,360 I remember from that rescue is we arrived there, there 227 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,759 were a bunch of little dogs, but they were completely 228 00:13:47,799 --> 00:13:54,159 silent and no sounds because they were in such distress 229 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,919 and physical stress, and there was no way to give 230 00:13:58,919 --> 00:14:01,840 them any water. So when got there, you know, we 231 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,480 wanted to give them water, but in the situation, they 232 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:09,159 were in every bowl or plate or thing that we 233 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,279 could find how to crack in it. There was no 234 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,879 way to even give them water if we had wanted to. 235 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,639 So when I give my I ended up taking two 236 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,000 of these little dogs home. We rescued more than thirty 237 00:14:23,279 --> 00:14:27,200 little doll and I ended up bringing two of them 238 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,320 and deciding that these were going to I was going 239 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,320 to give them a forever home. So every morning when 240 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:37,320 I give them fresh water, I am so grateful to 241 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,000 be able to do that. And I think to myself, 242 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:42,840 may you be confident, may you be at ease, May 243 00:14:42,879 --> 00:14:46,759 you be playful, May you be safe, And every time 244 00:14:46,799 --> 00:14:50,960 they drink their water, their tails wag back at Dogs 245 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:56,320 and cats have special taste receptors for fresh water. They 246 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:01,039 can taste the difference between you know, fresh and tasty water. 247 00:15:01,159 --> 00:15:03,919 It has a taste for them that we can't perceive. 248 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,519 You know, it is water for us, but they have 249 00:15:06,759 --> 00:15:10,159 special taste receptors for water. And I think about that 250 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,320 when I give them fresh water and I watch their 251 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,279 tails wag, how much they enjoy that, And it just 252 00:15:16,399 --> 00:15:21,320 helps remind me that their experience of the life with me, 253 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,639 it's different from mine and in some ways really wonderful. 254 00:15:25,759 --> 00:15:30,840 And just giving them opportunities to taste, smell, touch different 255 00:15:30,919 --> 00:15:33,639 things and watching to see what are the things that 256 00:15:33,759 --> 00:15:37,080 make them happy? And can I give them just a 257 00:15:37,159 --> 00:15:41,679 little bit more of what it is that makes them happy? 258 00:15:41,759 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. To just have that focus and that awareness, that intention, 259 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,720 you know, to not just PLoP something down, but to 260 00:15:47,799 --> 00:15:51,120 think about that that's really a beautiful story. And did 261 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,919 you feel that having done that kind of inner work 262 00:15:54,039 --> 00:15:57,440 in preparation to that rescue, that made a difference in 263 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,960 how those dogspond when you got there. Could you feel 264 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,440 the difference, like say a on a rescue where you 265 00:16:04,879 --> 00:16:09,159 hadn't had that opportunity to really let them know, Hey, 266 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,440 we're coming, we're going to help you. 267 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:16,399 Speaker 3: You know, Well that was I was going to say 268 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,600 that was the first rescue I went on, but that's 269 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:24,080 so entirely true. But definitely, I think that preparation was 270 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:29,960 essential to that work. It is emotionally and spiritually difficult work. 271 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:34,840 I mean, it's right, it resonates with you, you remember it. 272 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:39,759 It's not easy to see animals in that condition. I 273 00:16:39,799 --> 00:16:43,159 remember going on a similar rescue about a year later, 274 00:16:43,399 --> 00:16:47,399 and we drove onto the property. It was a different experience, 275 00:16:47,559 --> 00:16:51,519 a different situation, And when we drove onto that property, 276 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:56,559 the dogs were barking and I felt, Oh, thank goodness, 277 00:16:57,639 --> 00:17:00,360 they're not in as bad of shape. They ca how 278 00:17:00,759 --> 00:17:05,680 how they feel? You know, sometimes we don't when our 279 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,480 animals are communicating with us, when they're barking, when they're whining, 280 00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:13,160 Sometimes we don't want that right if my dog was 281 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,559 barking now, I'd be like, hey, I'm on a podcast, 282 00:17:16,279 --> 00:17:20,160 h right, right, that's their way of communicating. And I 283 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,839 remember when you know, I brought my dog's home. At first, 284 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,559 they were so shut down, they were so scared. They 285 00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:30,359 weren't really doing anything because they weren't feeling good enough 286 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,880 and they weren't confident enough to express. Now they will 287 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:38,440 bark for ls. You know, they started off behaviors that 288 00:17:38,519 --> 00:17:41,960 I wanted to help work on, maybe give them some alternates. 289 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,440 But also that's what I love about them. I want 290 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:47,960 them to be playful. I want them to be running, 291 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,279 I want them to be exuberant. You know, it may 292 00:17:51,279 --> 00:17:55,119 be nice sometimes for us to have our animals be 293 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:59,039 calm and our home. And from a training and behavior perspective, 294 00:17:59,079 --> 00:18:03,079 I always recommend people reward that don't or that behavior. 295 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:07,039 If your animal is lying quietly beside you, that's a 296 00:18:07,079 --> 00:18:09,319 good time to go and get a treat or a 297 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:13,079 special reward. And if you want more of that calm behavior, 298 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:17,599 reward the calm. But so are there ways that we 299 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:22,160 can give them opportunities to express their behaviors? Yes, always, 300 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:26,160 we don't really want I don't want my dog to 301 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,640 be just shut down and not made do things. I 302 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,799 want them to express their little behaviors. 303 00:18:33,079 --> 00:18:35,279 Speaker 2: Great, well, we're going to take a short little break. 304 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:37,519 When we come back, along here some of your methods 305 00:18:37,519 --> 00:18:41,680 for reducing stress and fear and anxiety to have that 306 00:18:41,759 --> 00:18:45,119 more happy, healthy home. We'll be back in just a moment. 307 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:53,279 Speaker 4: Take a bite out of your competition. Advertise your business 308 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,640 with an ad in pet Life Radio podcast and radio shows. 309 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,599 There is no other pet related media that is as 310 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,519 large and reach us more pet parents and pet lovers 311 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,680 than Petlife Radio with over seven million monthly listeners. Pet 312 00:19:06,759 --> 00:19:10,880 Life Radio podcasts are available on all major podcast platforms, 313 00:19:11,079 --> 00:19:14,119 and our live radio stream goes out to over two 314 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:18,880 hundred and fifty million subscribers on iHeartRadio, Odyssey, tune In, 315 00:19:19,079 --> 00:19:22,160 and other streaming apps. For more information on how you 316 00:19:22,319 --> 00:19:25,920 can advertise on the number one pet podcast and radio network, 317 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,640 visit Petlifradio dot com slash advertised today. 318 00:19:30,039 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: Hey friends. If you like what you're hearing and want 319 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,279 to learn more, check out doctor Joseph's book The Human 320 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:42,640 Animal Connection, Deepening Relationships with Animals and ourselves, or visit 321 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:48,480 the website The Humananimalconnection dot org to book an online consultation. 322 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,880 Thank you for loving animals. Now back to the show. 323 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:05,559 Speaker 5: Let's Talk pets on Petlifradio dot com. 324 00:20:05,799 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Human Animal Connection. I'm your host, 325 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,400 Genie Joseph, the executive director of the Human Animal Connection, 326 00:20:12,839 --> 00:20:15,920 speaking with Shelle Graves about a wonderful rescue story where 327 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:17,000 they rescued it look. 328 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 6: Sounds like thirty dogs. Did you get all thirty of them? Yeah, okay, 329 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,799 wonderful And of course two of them went home with you, 330 00:20:22,839 --> 00:20:25,720 so and I know they came home, you know, with 331 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,319 a fair amount of stress and anxiety and shut down 332 00:20:29,319 --> 00:20:32,839 this and having not been able to express themselves in 333 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,240 any other normal ways to bark it. So what was 334 00:20:35,279 --> 00:20:38,279 the process like for you to get them from that state? 335 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,519 How did you help them release that fear or heal 336 00:20:41,599 --> 00:20:43,359 that fear and stress and anxiety. 337 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 3: Well, one of the keys is to offer them as 338 00:20:46,759 --> 00:20:51,519 much choice and control as possible. So where it is possible, 339 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,519 let them make decisions. Do they want to approach, do 340 00:20:54,599 --> 00:20:58,000 they not want to approach? So there is the tendency 341 00:20:58,079 --> 00:21:00,799 to want to give them a lot of love and 342 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,160 you know, put them right beside us on our laps. 343 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,400 But they may not be ready for that, so letting 344 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,880 them choose whether they want to come or not and 345 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,440 offering things slowly. So I remember when we first brought 346 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,200 them home, you know, we were having our normal quiet evening. 347 00:21:19,279 --> 00:21:22,759 We turned on a television show and it just turned 348 00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:25,160 out to be too loud and too much. They'd never 349 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,680 been in a home that had a television on, so 350 00:21:27,759 --> 00:21:30,839 we realized, okay, we can't watch a show that has 351 00:21:31,079 --> 00:21:35,759 you know, driving and maybe thunder happening in the background. 352 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,680 We had to turn it onto something quiet like Great 353 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:43,960 British bakeoff, a big, something very relaxing. You know, now 354 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:49,240 they've over time, they've experienced good things when they're with 355 00:21:49,319 --> 00:21:53,599 us on the couch, and they can now listen to noises. 356 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,079 They're not as reactive or worried about them. So now 357 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,599 we can watch you know, more action shows. But it 358 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,279 early days that was making a quiet, calm environment and 359 00:22:03,319 --> 00:22:05,880 then not taking them out. They didn't need to go 360 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,480 out on our usual walk. For them, the exciting thing 361 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,720 was maybe just exploring in the front yard, you know, yes, 362 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,039 the front yard, And then over time we could go 363 00:22:17,799 --> 00:22:20,640 down the street a little ways, and then we worked 364 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,039 up to finally being able to go around the block. 365 00:22:23,079 --> 00:22:25,920 But everything was so new to them. You know, you 366 00:22:26,039 --> 00:22:29,039 want to give them. You know that they haven't had 367 00:22:29,079 --> 00:22:31,440 a lot of experience, so you want to give them more, 368 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,799 but really taking it at their pace. Yes, so you know, 369 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,079 for them, they didn't need to go out for an 370 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,720 exciting walk or on an exciting trip. You know, it 371 00:22:42,799 --> 00:22:45,519 was all very exciting enough for them as it was, 372 00:22:46,279 --> 00:22:48,799 right the little things. Yeah, Well, it's so important when 373 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,079 dogs are making little simple choices like even just should 374 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,119 I go in the yard or not? Should I move 375 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,640 over here? Should I go both? You know, closer or further? 376 00:22:57,079 --> 00:22:59,720 Every little choice they make is a sense of a 377 00:22:59,799 --> 00:23:02,559 time and a healthy state, getting them out of the 378 00:23:02,599 --> 00:23:04,920 hopeless and helpless state that they've been in in the 379 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,519 traumatic situation. So I'm a real big believer when I 380 00:23:08,559 --> 00:23:10,559 would take a dog home for the shelters, just for 381 00:23:10,599 --> 00:23:13,200 the day, sometimes just letting them be in the yard 382 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,880 and choose where how far or close they want to 383 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:17,759 be to me. Do they want to be against the fence, 384 00:23:17,799 --> 00:23:19,720 you know, where they can feel that security. Do they 385 00:23:19,759 --> 00:23:21,759 want to be in the sun or in the shade 386 00:23:21,799 --> 00:23:26,680 or every little choice helps them feel more in their 387 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,799 body and safer and more powerful. 388 00:23:29,839 --> 00:23:32,519 Speaker 2: So it's beautiful to hear you say that. Yeah, how 389 00:23:32,519 --> 00:23:34,799 long have you had them, Lili and Tish? 390 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:39,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, they're having their five year gotcha date is coming 391 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:40,240 up in July. 392 00:23:40,519 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 2: So oh yeay. Wonderful, wonderful. Great, And what are for 393 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,279 some of the cat people out there, what are some 394 00:23:48,319 --> 00:23:49,960 of the things that we can do to help cats 395 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:52,359 deal with this level of stress. 396 00:23:53,319 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 3: It's a very similar that you can offer them safe 397 00:23:57,759 --> 00:24:01,680 places for them, and so for cat it's important that 398 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:07,519 they have access to not only their food and water 399 00:24:07,759 --> 00:24:10,759 and their litter box, but they also really need vertical 400 00:24:10,799 --> 00:24:15,279 spaces and hiding spaces. Those are essential for cats as well. 401 00:24:15,839 --> 00:24:20,599 So offering them lots of extra places, and if you 402 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,759 have more than one cat, making sure that they have 403 00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:27,240 a choice, just multiples for each cat, but an extra 404 00:24:27,319 --> 00:24:31,319 one so that everyone gets a choice of where their 405 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,200 favorite most comfortable place is going to be. That's really 406 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:34,960 going to help them. 407 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 2: That's great, that's great. And tell us about Piper Dog. 408 00:24:39,759 --> 00:24:43,240 How you made a puppuccinos for Hiper Dog. 409 00:24:44,039 --> 00:24:47,839 Speaker 3: So, again, in the shelter environment, dogs feel a lot 410 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,960 of fear, anxiety, stress and frustration, and providing them activities 411 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,279 is a way to help reduce that. So when you 412 00:24:55,319 --> 00:25:01,039 get behaviors like jumping up and jumping on leash, biting 413 00:25:01,079 --> 00:25:04,880 at the leash, those are giving them some more activities 414 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,079 and outlets will help reduce those behaviors. And I definitely 415 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:13,119 saw that in the sheltered environment. So Piper was a 416 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:17,599 adolescent pitbull with a lot of energy, and she happened 417 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:23,039 to be blind as well. So her main thing is 418 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:28,480 that she was very social. So she loved you and 419 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,640 as soon as she heard your voice, she would turn 420 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,559 around and jump at you. Loved to play tugs, so 421 00:25:34,599 --> 00:25:37,480 she would get malthy and she'd grab whatever it could 422 00:25:37,519 --> 00:25:41,039 be your places or your sleeve. And she was a 423 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:46,160 large dog, more than sixty pounds she is, so it 424 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,920 could be very alarming for the person that was working 425 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,400 with her. So we did a lot of things to 426 00:25:52,519 --> 00:25:57,759 help her be more calm and relax over time. But 427 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:02,000 some of those were things like giving her other opportunities 428 00:26:02,039 --> 00:26:07,640 to do fun things. So the pappuccinos, you can make 429 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:14,839 homemade pappaccinos. You can use some coconut cream and offer 430 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,400 that in a little dixie cup. And so she would 431 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:23,440 go on car rides, good practice for her, and we 432 00:26:23,559 --> 00:26:26,279 taught her to walk on leash. But the car rides 433 00:26:26,319 --> 00:26:31,240 were also helpful because she was there for some amount 434 00:26:31,279 --> 00:26:35,079 of time and a lot of the dogs were going 435 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,960 to be eventually going home with someone and it would 436 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:43,279 be in a car. Really good practice at this. Giving 437 00:26:43,319 --> 00:26:46,359 them something nice like the pappaccino helps them make a 438 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:51,640 good association between their place that they're going and the 439 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:56,680 car ride. So not only is that a fun activity 440 00:26:56,799 --> 00:27:00,960 for the dog, but it also helps make great association. 441 00:27:01,319 --> 00:27:05,279 So I recommend it can be a good training thing 442 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,480 as well. So I recommend when you're taking your dog 443 00:27:09,599 --> 00:27:13,039 to the vet sometimes you can just drive to the 444 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:17,519 vet and you can give them a puppuccino, your homemade puppeccino, 445 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,279 and then drive home, so that the dog, you know, 446 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,759 maybe if you've taken your dog to the coffee stand, 447 00:27:23,759 --> 00:27:25,799 they get excited when they go there because they know 448 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,119 that that might predict a treat. The thing with going 449 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,799 to the vet is very often we've created a really 450 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:37,440 strong one on one association that something a little bit 451 00:27:37,519 --> 00:27:41,319 uncomfortable or uncertain happens at the vet. So that's why 452 00:27:41,599 --> 00:27:45,119 dogs tend to be afraid when they go there. But 453 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,599 you can so you can change that up you can. Yeah, 454 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,359 it's a positive association by making them go to the 455 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,119 vet and have something happen. 456 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, So repairing something that they're not so sure about 457 00:27:56,279 --> 00:27:59,039 with something that they feel very good about and building 458 00:27:59,079 --> 00:28:02,759 the connection between them too. That's great, excellent. So what 459 00:28:02,839 --> 00:28:06,000 are some of the benefits of meditating with your dog? 460 00:28:06,039 --> 00:28:08,119 I know I do that, but tell me what you've 461 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:08,880 experienced with that. 462 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:14,799 Speaker 3: Yeah. So you know, the animals in our homes are there. 463 00:28:14,839 --> 00:28:17,720 The bodies can be small, but they take up such 464 00:28:17,759 --> 00:28:20,440 a huge place in our hearts and our lives, and 465 00:28:20,519 --> 00:28:23,599 we are going to their time that we have with 466 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:29,799 them will always be too short. So just spending some 467 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:35,119 time with your animal companion, with your dog and your cat, 468 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,799 just setting it aside, you set aside your phone, set 469 00:28:38,839 --> 00:28:44,240 aside your computer show, and just spend time focusing on 470 00:28:44,839 --> 00:28:49,039 that animal and your connection with them. I call it. 471 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,279 You can call it meditation. I call it doting sometimes 472 00:28:53,319 --> 00:28:58,920 just spending time focused on them, just really feeling that connection. 473 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,880 It helps them be more confident, at ease, playful and safe. 474 00:29:04,359 --> 00:29:09,680 And you'll know, my hope is that at the end 475 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,039 of their life, when you're grieving that loss, you know 476 00:29:13,119 --> 00:29:17,720 it's still going to be difficult, but I'd like you 477 00:29:17,799 --> 00:29:21,160 to take that seed with you and just remember that 478 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,559 you did spend that time with them, building that connection, 479 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,680 that you took that time. You're taking time today to 480 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,519 think about what would make them more happy, and then 481 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,119 you spend that time meditating with your dog or cat, 482 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,759 doting on them, just giving them love and really being 483 00:29:38,799 --> 00:29:42,240 present and intentional about it. You can carry that with 484 00:29:42,319 --> 00:29:46,200 you so at the end of their life you can 485 00:29:46,279 --> 00:29:48,799 remember that you did do that with them. 486 00:29:49,039 --> 00:29:52,799 Speaker 2: Yeah. You gave it your best energy and your best 487 00:29:52,839 --> 00:29:56,359 focus and your best love and your best time and 488 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,400 that will continue. You know that can continue? 489 00:30:00,519 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 4: Yeah? 490 00:30:01,039 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 2: Yeah? And are you somebody that believes that animals have souls, 491 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:09,200 that they have consciousness that continues after they pass visitally 492 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:10,799 or what are your thoughts on that. 493 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 3: I believe that we all we are all connected, and 494 00:30:15,119 --> 00:30:17,960 I believe that well we will all stay connected and 495 00:30:18,079 --> 00:30:24,640 that the energy and spirit is there. So whatever, whatever 496 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,599 you believe, I think it's important to make that connection 497 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,359 in our lives today and we can have that to 498 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:33,079 hold on to. 499 00:30:34,039 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 2: Excellent. Okay, So she'll help. Can people get a hold 500 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,079 of you. I know you also do consultations. You're in Seattle, 501 00:30:40,119 --> 00:30:44,519 but you do consultations online Shell Gravesanimal dot com. Is 502 00:30:44,519 --> 00:30:46,079 that the best way for people to reach you. 503 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 3: Yes, Shellgravesanimal dot com. And if you go on my 504 00:30:52,039 --> 00:30:55,799 website and contact to have a contact form and you 505 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,960 let me know that you heard this podcast, I will 506 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,000 send you ten ten fun activities for dogs, ten fun 507 00:31:03,039 --> 00:31:06,319 activities for cats so that you can continue to work 508 00:31:06,359 --> 00:31:09,440 on having a happier life with your dogs and cats. 509 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,799 Speaker 2: That's great. Yeah, So just putting our intention on making 510 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,880 sure that they're happy and playful can improve the lives 511 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,039 of us and them and make the world a better place. 512 00:31:18,599 --> 00:31:22,079 And when I'm coming from a training and behavior standpoint 513 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,279 as well, one of the first things that I will 514 00:31:25,359 --> 00:31:28,920 usually ask people is what kinds of activities are they doing? 515 00:31:29,039 --> 00:31:32,319 Are they giving opportunities for their dogs and cats to 516 00:31:32,319 --> 00:31:35,519 be dogs and cats? Sometimes those can solve quite a 517 00:31:35,599 --> 00:31:39,160 few of the behavioral issues. Look for ways that you 518 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,960 can say yes to your dogs and cats and let 519 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,160 them do some of those activities in ways that are 520 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:47,640 going to work for everybody. 521 00:31:48,119 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 3: Yes, so makes me cratching, barking, meowing at appropriate times, 522 00:31:54,319 --> 00:31:58,000 It will resolve a lot of the troubling behaviors. And 523 00:31:58,119 --> 00:31:59,960 everyone will have a happier life together. 524 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 2: Oh that's great. I love that. I love that. 525 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,799 Speaker 6: Well, here's to the happiness, happiness with people and your animals, 526 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,519 the animals who share your lives. Shell Graves, thank you 527 00:32:09,599 --> 00:32:12,559 so much for being a guest on The Human Animal Connection. 528 00:32:13,079 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 2: We'll see you next time. By now. 529 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,359 Speaker 1: Thank you for tuning in to The Human Animal Connection Show. 530 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:24,960 Please visit our website, Thehumananimalconnection dot org. There you can 531 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,319 sign up for our free email newsletter, book a consultation, 532 00:32:28,799 --> 00:32:32,440 or check out our blogs and resources. Our best selling book, 533 00:32:32,559 --> 00:32:36,640 The Human Animal Connection is available on Amazon, and your 534 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:41,119 donation of any amount keeps our nonprofit organization providing life 535 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:42,240 changing services. 536 00:32:43,119 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 5: Let's Talk Pats every week on demand only on Patlifradio 537 00:32:48,519 --> 00:33:05,240 dot com.