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<v Speaker 1>Hey, folks, we're recording at Halburne's Access Summit at the

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<v Speaker 1>New York Stock Exchange and joining me, it's Chris de Fontaine,

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<v Speaker 1>who is the co CEO and co founder of Defense. Chris,

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<v Speaker 1>great to have you.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you for having me, Tony.

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<v Speaker 1>Chris. Defense is doing some amazing things and I'm excited

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<v Speaker 1>to go through the details. Let's keep it off with

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<v Speaker 1>your background. Tell us about where you're from and how'd

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<v Speaker 1>you make your way into crypto.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a European. I'm half French, half Swedish, so I

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<v Speaker 2>grew grew up in Paris, lived a bit in South Africa,

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<v Speaker 2>spent a lot of years in Sweden and Stockholm. So

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<v Speaker 2>I had this multicultural background, but mostly European. And yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>studied philosophy in France and then dropped out and just

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<v Speaker 2>built companies. The first companies were in hr tech and

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<v Speaker 2>sports Tech, did social apps around multiple experiments, not all

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<v Speaker 2>of them were were successful, but we did raise money,

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<v Speaker 2>et cetera, et cetera. And then all suddenly I met

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<v Speaker 2>my wife, Clarius, who's my co founder, and she she's

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<v Speaker 2>been in banking for ten years Goldman Bammel, Credit Agricole,

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<v Speaker 2>mostly here in New York and you know, she she

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<v Speaker 2>stumbled upon private key security matters and blockchain while working

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<v Speaker 2>for the bank, and but she had never built a company.

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<v Speaker 2>And so we kind of met, uh somewhere in the

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<v Speaker 2>middle where you know, she would bring the industry expertise

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<v Speaker 2>and I would be, you know, kind of tickled by

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<v Speaker 2>the idea of joining her. Was intimidating at first because

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like cybersecurity and finance and crypto like had

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<v Speaker 2>nothing to do with that whole space. Being in the

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<v Speaker 2>consumer facing product side very deep b to be very

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<v Speaker 2>deep tech. And but you know, I know, I knew

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<v Speaker 2>how to hire, I knew how to fundraise, I knew

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<v Speaker 2>how to build a deck, I knew how to feel

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<v Speaker 2>how an organization should kind of evolve over time. And

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<v Speaker 2>so yeah, my operational expertise mixed with her financial industry

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<v Speaker 2>expertise kind of came together and we built a company.

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<v Speaker 1>It's amazing. So tell us about defenses services and what

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<v Speaker 1>you offer and solutions and things like that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we're in the product category that this industry refers

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<v Speaker 2>to as wallet infrastructure wallet services. What it basically is

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<v Speaker 2>is the combination of a key management service. Traditionally speaking,

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<v Speaker 2>so keys your private keys right that we secure or

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<v Speaker 2>that we help you secure. And the notes the notes

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<v Speaker 2>of a blockchain that we index so you can read

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<v Speaker 2>information from it, you can write information to it. So

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<v Speaker 2>that's like the kind of core objects of a wallet.

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<v Speaker 2>And what we do is provide an interface on top

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<v Speaker 2>of these objects as well, so that the developer experience

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<v Speaker 2>and also the kind of user experience becomes pleasurable and

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<v Speaker 2>safe with authentication and identity and access management and authentication.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's like over time you add all these integrations.

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<v Speaker 2>We've done as well with exchanges so that these wallets

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<v Speaker 2>can buy and sell with compliance data, so that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>these wallets, these same wallets can block transactions when they

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<v Speaker 2>see some frauduenent address with payment service providers when they

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<v Speaker 2>want to send these wallets want to send money to

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<v Speaker 2>Brazil or whatever. It's becoming overtime and orchestration platform. We've

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<v Speaker 2>like evolved into some kind of operating system, a middleware

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<v Speaker 2>that sits within banks, within payment service providers, trading apps,

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<v Speaker 2>all robinhood things like that. And so yeah, we've become

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<v Speaker 2>with now three hundred more customer of three hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>twenty customers, we've become like a a credible platform that

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<v Speaker 2>helps you interact with blockchains and build your workflows.

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<v Speaker 1>That's incredible. And your wallet as a service product is

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<v Speaker 1>that pretty much plug and play any institution or exchange

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<v Speaker 1>what American use your service and build their wallets out.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, historically it was. It still is because if you're

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<v Speaker 2>a startup, very cloud first using the most modern technologies,

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<v Speaker 2>et cetera, that's what you want. You want an SDK,

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<v Speaker 2>you want quick access to everything, self served motions, you

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<v Speaker 2>want all of that. And that's what we have. That's

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<v Speaker 2>what we built to start with. But as we got

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<v Speaker 2>in deeper and deeper into institutional finance, we also realized that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you had a lot of companies out there

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<v Speaker 2>that had custom builds, legacy technologies, old stuff, complex stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>much more regulatory requirements, security risk, compliance requirements than a

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<v Speaker 2>young fintech starting two years ago. And yeah, you have

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<v Speaker 2>to play ball with these guys if you want to

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<v Speaker 2>kind of help them join the unschain world and make

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<v Speaker 2>a buck, right, So you need to. We had to

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<v Speaker 2>over time become this platform that's also good at deploying

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<v Speaker 2>in various we call them heat your genius environments. But

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like quirky environments, not your like just aws autobahn.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's like, let's take an example, a bank

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<v Speaker 2>in Turkey. They don't have any WIST data centure, yet

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<v Speaker 2>the regulator will tell them, you need to have this

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<v Speaker 2>mission critical stuff running in my country under certain like

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<v Speaker 2>parameters and certain things. And you need to be aware

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<v Speaker 2>of these parameters. You need to know what the regulators want,

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<v Speaker 2>et cetera, et cetera. And it's all about sovereignty of

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<v Speaker 2>that country, risk tolerance from their perspective, the Turkish perspective,

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<v Speaker 2>or the South Korean one or whatever. So yeah, we've

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<v Speaker 2>became good at that too.

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<v Speaker 1>And are you seeing a lot of demand now that

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<v Speaker 1>let's say crypto is in a much better place here

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<v Speaker 1>in the United States. A lot of institutions on Wall Street,

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<v Speaker 1>even in New York Stock is launching things that they're

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<v Speaker 1>coming to you saying, hey, Chris, we need to get

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<v Speaker 1>this billed.

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<v Speaker 2>Out one percent. There are still you know, the Clarity Act,

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<v Speaker 2>et cetera. There are still hurdles, there's still a refinement.

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<v Speaker 2>But I'm I mean, I have the luxury to have

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<v Speaker 2>been in this space for six years now, so I've

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<v Speaker 2>gone through you know, uh, the early days where the

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<v Speaker 2>word custody was a devilish, diabolical term than the nft

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<v Speaker 2>D five summer. Then you know FTX the whole thing, right,

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<v Speaker 2>So I remember a year ago before Trump, when like

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<v Speaker 2>no one wanted to even hear about the word crypto anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>One year later, one must admit everything's changed. So from

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<v Speaker 2>that perspective, yes, we see a lot of a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of financial institutions across the board in every single country.

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<v Speaker 2>The use case have matured, they have definitely. Blockchain is

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<v Speaker 2>seen as just now, you know, interesting technology and and

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<v Speaker 2>and the mindset is open, and it's like, what can

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<v Speaker 2>we do with this interesting technology? How can we rewire

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<v Speaker 2>the financial back end? Because at the end of the day,

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<v Speaker 2>blockchain is first and foremost an invitation to revamp rewire

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<v Speaker 2>the back end, the back office of finance. Right people,

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's it's easy to get caught in the shiny

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<v Speaker 2>aspects of consumer facing products and you know, the latest

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<v Speaker 2>ux and whatever. The truth is the biggest value in

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<v Speaker 2>where you have the most work still to be done.

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<v Speaker 2>Much like you know, you look at a country, you

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<v Speaker 2>still want you want to work, You want to build

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<v Speaker 2>the roads and the bridges, before you start working on

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the Louis Vuitton shop, you know, like you

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<v Speaker 2>got to get there. Yeah, exactly. So we're in that

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<v Speaker 2>phase historically where the big kind of groundwork still has

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<v Speaker 2>to be done. And and yeah, I mean IBM is

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<v Speaker 2>like a big, big example of that.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>The fact that we sign this partnership that took six

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<v Speaker 2>months to deliver, which is a fairly short time amount

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<v Speaker 2>of time frame for such a large company that runs

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<v Speaker 2>seventy percent of the Internet and has been around for

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred and fourteen years old, fourteen years for that

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<v Speaker 2>company to sign with us and white label our entire

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<v Speaker 2>platform and sell it as their own is Yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 2>a phenomenal change compared to a year ago.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh absolutely. And that's called the IBM Digital Asset Haven

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<v Speaker 1>if I'm not mistaken, correct, So tell us about that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, what are as much as you can what

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<v Speaker 1>are the moving parts and components of that? How are

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<v Speaker 1>they using your services and how are they pitching that

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<v Speaker 1>to their clients?

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<v Speaker 2>So they have a long standing history uh in bock chain, right,

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<v Speaker 2>like IBM has been at the forefront. They have been

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<v Speaker 2>investing in what we call the hyper Ledger Foundation. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>they built the fabric private chain, so you know, they

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<v Speaker 2>know their their thing, they know their stuff. Now what's

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<v Speaker 2>happened is that they they've been partnering with a bunch

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<v Speaker 2>of classic wallet vendors over the years, fire Blogs and

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<v Speaker 2>Mettaco that got acquired by Ripple, Custody, uh Taurus and others.

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<v Speaker 2>Attaka got acquired by Ripple, and they created some some issues,

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<v Speaker 2>let's say with with you know, how to continue because

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<v Speaker 2>when a when a financial service like Ripple acquires you know,

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<v Speaker 2>credibly neutral technology provider, all suddenly all the other financial

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<v Speaker 2>services on top they you know, they'll start looking at

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<v Speaker 2>that very same piece of tech that is now governed

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<v Speaker 2>by and another financial service with another pair of glasses.

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<v Speaker 2>You know. It's just the risk paradigm shifts that has

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<v Speaker 2>led IBM to look for their new champion. And we

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<v Speaker 2>were one of the names that popped up and we

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<v Speaker 2>started working with them, and and they thought that we

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<v Speaker 2>were the most advanced but also the team that was

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<v Speaker 2>not not a team that was too big, that could

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<v Speaker 2>not consider their requirements. So we we were at we

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<v Speaker 2>had at the right level, I would say, because we

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<v Speaker 2>were willing to put in the legwork and and yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>fast forward the digitalast to haven platform is is our

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<v Speaker 2>platform running inside the IBM infrastructure, which means that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>if you're a bank and you look to start moving

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<v Speaker 2>things on chain, your trades, your flows, your your cash,

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<v Speaker 2>your deposit, you want tokenize them, whatever you want to do,

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<v Speaker 2>you now you know you need to think about multiple things.

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<v Speaker 2>Among these things is vendor onboarding. Vendor on boarding takes time.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, you need to go through a whole list

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<v Speaker 2>of hold a big checklist. The procurement team is very

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<v Speaker 2>strict and if you don't take all these boxes, you

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<v Speaker 2>don't get in and it could take six, nine, twelve

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<v Speaker 2>months to onboard a new vendor. So you know, when

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<v Speaker 2>you're in a rush in these kind of markets, a

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<v Speaker 2>thing like IBM that's already pre onboarded as a certified vendor,

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<v Speaker 2>has been for a long time, takes all the boxes.

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<v Speaker 2>Everyone's very happy because it's just like a new line

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<v Speaker 2>in the contract they've already signed and bingo there off

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<v Speaker 2>to the races. So that's like one of one important

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<v Speaker 2>like go to market distribution adoption aspect to this whole thing,

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<v Speaker 2>the trust because like you know, work startup, we could

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<v Speaker 2>get acquired fireblocks even that eight billion dollar valuation on

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<v Speaker 2>paper could get acquired. So IBM has been the long

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<v Speaker 2>for one hundred and fourteen years old. They're making more

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<v Speaker 2>than sixty billion dollars a year in revenue. They're not

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<v Speaker 2>going anywhere, right, and so I mean to some degree,

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<v Speaker 2>IBM is you know what bitcoin itself would like to

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<v Speaker 2>be in one hundred years, you know. So from in

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<v Speaker 2>some sense, it's like if IBM gets in the mother

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<v Speaker 2>the bedrock is now like on chain, on chain compatible,

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<v Speaker 2>gives gives you access to the on So that trust,

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<v Speaker 2>that level of comfort for an institution like City, JP, Morgan, Swift,

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<v Speaker 2>whatever is like gold right because now it's like all

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<v Speaker 2>lights are green, we can go ahead. From a technical perspective,

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<v Speaker 2>then of course they need to deal with their regulator

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<v Speaker 2>and so forth and so, but you know, it's a

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<v Speaker 2>big percentage of the loading bar that's now all good.

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<v Speaker 2>So so they have They do have a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>products in their catalog HSMs classes like their their well

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<v Speaker 2>known HSMs, their confidential compute called HPVs. They have a

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<v Speaker 2>thing called Offline Signing Orchestrator OZO, which helps you kind

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<v Speaker 2>of keep things offline and if you want to go

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<v Speaker 2>online with data like keys, there's a SaaS kind of

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<v Speaker 2>there are circuit breakers and interesting things that will not

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<v Speaker 2>prevent direct like offline to online movements, but it's going

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<v Speaker 2>to be segregated and it's going to kind of follow

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of security hygiene steps, and we're trying to

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<v Speaker 2>make sure that our platform is completely compatible with their

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<v Speaker 2>the entire product catalog running inside iBIM cloud and IBM environments,

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<v Speaker 2>which is I would say, and I'll stop there. It's

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<v Speaker 2>like the I would say, the it's the you know

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<v Speaker 2>when we met with IBM, I didn't know them that well,

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<v Speaker 2>Like you know, the kind of cliche picture you have

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<v Speaker 2>of them as a startup or is like it's a

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<v Speaker 2>dusty company, it's an old company. You know. The truth

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<v Speaker 2>is I was impressed because especially when you go to

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<v Speaker 2>that in Poukeepsi, you go to that quantum farm they

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<v Speaker 2>have like it's not dusty at all. It's actually the

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<v Speaker 2>thing that's like they invented the computer in the sixties.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, they helped Armstrom go to the Moon with

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<v Speaker 2>their computers and they're still investing as no other company

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<v Speaker 2>on Earth on AI and Quantum and all the stuff

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<v Speaker 2>that's like Frontier and even Google is not like at

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<v Speaker 2>the same level. But the thing is what people don't

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<v Speaker 2>understand is IBM is Ferrari, Google, Aws and all these

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<v Speaker 2>others are mid class cars. It's like Ford, right, so

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<v Speaker 2>of course maybe Ford is making more money than Ferrari,

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<v Speaker 2>probably right, and for people know them more because they're everywhere,

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<v Speaker 2>et cetera. Not everyone has a Ferrari. But the thing

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<v Speaker 2>is like the level of the compute of a mainframe,

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<v Speaker 2>those big machines that you buy, they cost a million plus.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like buying a nice pair of shoes that you'll

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<v Speaker 2>keep for ten years versus like a pair of Nikes

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<v Speaker 2>that you'll kill in two years. That's the difference. Like

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<v Speaker 2>it's when you buy IBM, you buy autonomy, you buy sovereignty.

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<v Speaker 2>You buy the ability for your country, for your government,

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<v Speaker 2>for your bank, for healthcare, for like all the mission

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<v Speaker 2>critical infrastructure pieces in our societies, military, whatever, finance is

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<v Speaker 2>part of those. You buy the ability to be able

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<v Speaker 2>to compute inside your offices, inside your data data centers,

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<v Speaker 2>inside your country with incredible, incredible high speed and compute power.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't remember the rate shows, but like one IBM

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<v Speaker 2>Z can compute as much as like one thousand service

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<v Speaker 2>inside a do lists something like that, right, So it's

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<v Speaker 2>a piece of jewelry. And it makes sense that IBM technology,

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<v Speaker 2>which is one of the biggest, you know, enterprise tech

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<v Speaker 2>firms in the world, gets into this. As we are

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<v Speaker 2>moving from databases to blockchains, they want to be part

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<v Speaker 2>of that transition as well and help right Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh absolutely, And do you feel that's a model kind

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<v Speaker 1>of where they've taken your technology, Like you mentioned, they

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<v Speaker 1>have the brand, they have the relationships, the network already,

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<v Speaker 1>they go out there and then they have their clients

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<v Speaker 1>adopted the technology and that helps to bring in customers

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<v Speaker 1>and retail folks on chain.

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<v Speaker 2>Totally. I'm I am one hundred percent convinced and they

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<v Speaker 2>are too that IBM is not only just a vendor.

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<v Speaker 2>It's an unlocker, it's a it's an enabler, it's a bridge.

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<v Speaker 2>It's really this thing that will have it perfer formative

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<v Speaker 2>effect on the increased adoption of blockchains, for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, so, Chris, what's on your roadmap for this year?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, we have we have a bunch of things. I

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<v Speaker 2>would say, I would say it's it's it's becoming you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we provide a unified experience across fifty plus blockchains, and

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<v Speaker 2>then if you add the third party services like chinelysis

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<v Speaker 2>coin based this and that, it's like one hundred plus

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<v Speaker 2>external sources, the networks of the chains and the third

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<v Speaker 2>party apps. You know, it's becoming increasingly increasingly important for

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<v Speaker 2>our customers to have a great admin experience. Right, we're

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<v Speaker 2>very inspired by what Whiz did for cloud. So Whiz

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<v Speaker 2>is this cloud security company that got acquired a year

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<v Speaker 2>ago by Google Record high evaluation, and they formulated this

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<v Speaker 2>nice like proposition which is to create an orchestration layer

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<v Speaker 2>on top of Google Cloud Aws Azure. Because it's difficult

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<v Speaker 2>when you have when you when you have all these

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<v Speaker 2>users and you have these rules and access controls, et cetera,

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<v Speaker 2>entrenched in all these environments across an organization, with different

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<v Speaker 2>teams in different countries, et cetera, it's very hard to

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<v Speaker 2>manage all of that. So just with sits on top

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<v Speaker 2>as an orchestration layer and they help you troubleshoot in

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<v Speaker 2>real time. They give you like idiot proof, like you know,

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<v Speaker 2>colors and experiences to know that oh, you know, there's

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<v Speaker 2>a bug here, or there's something that needs to get

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<v Speaker 2>checked here, or something has broken in my own automation,

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<v Speaker 2>et cetera. We think that you know the complexity of

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<v Speaker 2>blockchains and where a key sit and where notes it

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<v Speaker 2>and how transactions the status of transactions are they pending, confirmed,

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<v Speaker 2>have they failed, whatever, All of that complexity and more

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<v Speaker 2>needs to be managed, and you need to provide this

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<v Speaker 2>nice developer experience, but also admin experience because the bank

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<v Speaker 2>is not only the devs, right, it's the portfolio manager,

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<v Speaker 2>it's the risk officer, it's the CISO, it's the trader.

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<v Speaker 2>So you have all these teams like sometimes in different

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<v Speaker 2>countries and different subsidiaries of the bank, with the need

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<v Speaker 2>for segregation of like you know, all these these environments,

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<v Speaker 2>all these things, all these objects. So we're we're increasingly

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<v Speaker 2>looking at providing that increase that enhanced admin experience for blockchains, transaction,

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<v Speaker 2>life cycle management, all these things. Security has always been

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<v Speaker 2>a big thing, will continue to be. We love as

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<v Speaker 2>much as we love the idea of deploying on prem

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<v Speaker 2>and as much as it's a regulatory requirement, are our secrets.

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<v Speaker 2>Our little passion is to keep working on the zero

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<v Speaker 2>trust SaaS. So yeah, we'll want to kind of provide

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<v Speaker 2>as much data integrity and security as possible over time.

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<v Speaker 1>That's exciting. Well, Chris, we're gonna have to do around two.

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<v Speaker 1>We talked about it, where we go more adapt into

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<v Speaker 1>all these things. But thank you so much and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>looking forward to the updates.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you much, Thank you.

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