WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:10.599 And we're live with another episode of Adventures and Devlops. Warren, 2 00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:11.400 what's going on? 3 00:00:12.599 --> 00:00:15.640 I wish I had something good to say. Uh, movie 4 00:00:15.759 --> 00:00:18.039 on the spot there. I guess I can lead with 5 00:00:18.079 --> 00:00:19.359 my facts, right. 6 00:00:19.519 --> 00:00:22.039 My fault for asking you how you're doing? My God, 7 00:00:22.120 --> 00:00:23.039 I should have known better. 8 00:00:23.239 --> 00:00:25.000 Yeah, I know, it's it's been quite a number of 9 00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:27.440 episodes already. I feel like, you know, you really got 10 00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:32.159 to spread that away before the I will I will 11 00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:35.520 say I was a little disappointed by this, but I found 12 00:00:35.520 --> 00:00:38.679 out recently that there are companies that leak their data 13 00:00:38.759 --> 00:00:42.439 on purpose. They use it as an advertisement strategy so 14 00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:45.560 people learn about the company, so vcs can learn about 15 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:47.759 them and potentially buy them later, because it's such a 16 00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:50.719 great turnaround to say, hey, we had security problems in 17 00:00:50.719 --> 00:00:53.600 the past, but then we fixed them. So if you 18 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:57.240 see on your LinkedIn stream or social media accounts some 19 00:00:57.280 --> 00:01:01.640 companies saying oh no, this hotel, hell chain, or a 20 00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:04.680 healthcare provider or leaked all their patient records, it may 21 00:01:04.719 --> 00:01:07.159 have been an intentional strategy, just so that you will 22 00:01:07.239 --> 00:01:09.560 learn about them and then maybe start paying the money 23 00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:10.280 in the future. 24 00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:16.560 I can only say that I'm disappointed, but not surprised 25 00:01:18.599 --> 00:01:22.560 but also joining us today. I'm super excited about this 26 00:01:22.680 --> 00:01:27.799 episode because I've been following Today's guests for quite a while, 27 00:01:27.959 --> 00:01:33.840 through on ninety days of DevOps and through all of 28 00:01:33.879 --> 00:01:37.879 your posts on x so Michael Caide, welcome. 29 00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:40.560 Hey, thanks for having me guys. 30 00:01:40.920 --> 00:01:44.680 Yeah, our pleasure and I'm excited. So for those who 31 00:01:45.319 --> 00:01:47.400 maybe have never logged onto Twitter, because I think that's 32 00:01:47.439 --> 00:01:49.879 the requirement to start seeing your post is just actually 33 00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:53.280 log on. So for someone who's never been on there, 34 00:01:54.000 --> 00:01:56.760 give us like the short version of your background. 35 00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:01.040 So yeah, so I'm a The posh title is a 36 00:02:01.079 --> 00:02:03.879 field CTO at VM Software. If you know VM software, 37 00:02:03.959 --> 00:02:07.079 we focus on protecting workloads here, there, and everywhere. And 38 00:02:07.079 --> 00:02:09.240 what I mean by that is we started off with 39 00:02:09.319 --> 00:02:12.319 virtualization back up and then got into cloud based and 40 00:02:12.439 --> 00:02:16.280 SaaS based and even communities based backups. So running state 41 00:02:16.319 --> 00:02:19.639 for workloads, running databases, you name it, will protect it 42 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:22.159 type of thing. And the important part is is back 43 00:02:22.280 --> 00:02:24.879 up is the boring part. The recovery is the the 44 00:02:24.919 --> 00:02:28.759 easy part. But I guess more to the point where 45 00:02:29.159 --> 00:02:32.319 where you came in Will was around the project that 46 00:02:32.360 --> 00:02:34.719 I started kind of as we came out of the 47 00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:39.240 or even the last year of the pandemic was ninety 48 00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:41.520 days of DevOps And if you go to ninety days 49 00:02:41.560 --> 00:02:46.439 at DevOps dot com, it was really about learning in public, 50 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:52.240 like being vulnerable and putting some structured learning out there. 51 00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:54.879 It never was intended to be as big as this 52 00:02:55.039 --> 00:02:57.080 to help as many people. It was there to help me. 53 00:02:57.560 --> 00:03:00.319 It's just it started out as my notes, right, which 54 00:03:00.639 --> 00:03:03.520 my Twitter is a graveyard of notes really that I'm 55 00:03:03.560 --> 00:03:07.840 just shouting in my own little bubble. But yeah, been 56 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:11.000 in the infrastructure world for twenty years. I would say 57 00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:13.840 the last three to five years has been focused around 58 00:03:13.879 --> 00:03:16.560 DevOps and then more recently around cloud and cloud Native. 59 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:21.039 So yeah, definitely listening to the podcast and taking a 60 00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:23.319 lot in so yeah. 61 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:27.199 Right, and so ninety days of DevOps was your like 62 00:03:27.639 --> 00:03:32.000 learning and public thing, but that's been more than ninety 63 00:03:32.120 --> 00:03:34.840 days ago. So what's the current state of that. 64 00:03:36.039 --> 00:03:40.039 Yeah, So we started in twenty twenty two, I think 65 00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:44.159 it was, and that was me going through the weird 66 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:49.759 roads of DevOps, if you will, And I didn't want, 67 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:51.879 like I've seen loads of people do one hundred days 68 00:03:51.879 --> 00:03:53.840 of code or one hundred days of communeties and one 69 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:56.000 hundred days of this and one hundred days of cloud 70 00:03:56.560 --> 00:04:00.000 and I was like, I can't concentrate for one hundred days. 71 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:03.960 I can't do that. And DevOps isn't you can't do it. Look, 72 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:07.360 DevOps isn't just one area right as you as you 73 00:04:07.560 --> 00:04:12.280 all know. So I took that concept of ninety days 74 00:04:12.280 --> 00:04:14.240 of DevOps and this was This was on New Year's 75 00:04:14.280 --> 00:04:16.879 Eve as we were going into twenty twenty two. We're 76 00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:19.920 just in a pandemic and as most of my my 77 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:22.959 friends would be out drinking, I'm sat at home going right, 78 00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:26.600 how do we kickstart this year? And normally it's a 79 00:04:26.600 --> 00:04:30.399 fitness challenge for ninety days or something like that. This 80 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:32.319 year was no. What we're going to do is we're 81 00:04:32.360 --> 00:04:34.600 going to we're going to start a get repository and 82 00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:37.399 we're going to start loads of markdown files and we're 83 00:04:37.399 --> 00:04:40.480 going to go through twelve or thirteen different topics of 84 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:45.000 DevOps and we're going to not deep dive into them, 85 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:46.519 but we're going to get a little bit. We're going 86 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:49.040 to get we're going to get the big picture, we're 87 00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:50.959 going to get some theory around that, and we're going 88 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:53.439 to get some hands on over all of these weird 89 00:04:53.439 --> 00:04:57.240 and wonderful words that we see in the in the industry. 90 00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:01.000 So there's a top pick around go, but go lang 91 00:05:01.079 --> 00:05:03.639 not as a developer. I'm not a developer by any stretch, 92 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:06.120 But what does the programming language look like? From a 93 00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:08.920 DevOps point of view? We need to know Maybe we 94 00:05:08.959 --> 00:05:11.680 need to know how to read the code, just understand it. 95 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:14.879 Maybe we do need to understand how to create a 96 00:05:14.120 --> 00:05:18.519 little a little bit better than a bast script on 97 00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:23.639 how to achieve some automation. There's cumunetties in their containerization, 98 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:26.920 Linux networking, all of that and how it pertains to 99 00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:31.319 the DevOps topic. So that was the first year. It 100 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:34.240 was one hundred and ten thousand words. It was basically 101 00:05:34.279 --> 00:05:37.560 a blogger day for ninety days. We fast forward to 102 00:05:37.600 --> 00:05:41.560 twenty twenty three and instead of me doing that, and 103 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:44.240 I missed out so much around security, and I think 104 00:05:44.279 --> 00:05:46.519 the world missed out on. If you think about twenty 105 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:52.839 twenty two, DevOps was the thing. Dev scops was the 106 00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:56.000 new thing as we went through twenty twenty three or 107 00:05:56.040 --> 00:05:59.160 twenty twenty two into twenty twenty three. So I went 108 00:05:59.199 --> 00:06:06.959 out to some friends and they as SMEs, they subject 109 00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:10.439 matter experts. They came out and they provided the blog 110 00:06:10.519 --> 00:06:14.079 posts for each day of their section for the twenty 111 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:18.279 twenty three edition and then just recently of March the 112 00:06:18.360 --> 00:06:22.040 thirty first, we finished ninety days again. But I wanted 113 00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:26.000 to we couldn't just do let's write a load more things, 114 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:28.319 and I wanted to change up what that was. So 115 00:06:28.839 --> 00:06:30.959 we put out a call for papers and we actually 116 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:34.720 had ninety one sessions from ninety one different people. It 117 00:06:34.759 --> 00:06:36.480 was ninety one for a reason. It was a leap 118 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:41.480 year this year, and so yeah, we had all of those, 119 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:44.879 all of those sessions on YouTube as well. So it 120 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:50.439 was about changing the format of what. 121 00:06:50.439 --> 00:06:56.920 It was, greight Ie. So just taking the different topics 122 00:06:56.959 --> 00:07:02.279 and then dedicating a day to each of those topics 123 00:07:02.279 --> 00:07:04.879 so that you can do, you know, a little bit 124 00:07:04.879 --> 00:07:07.399 deeper than just Hello World on those and kind of 125 00:07:07.399 --> 00:07:12.040 walk away with not like an expert level knowledge, but 126 00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:14.279 like a conversational knowledge of that topic. 127 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:20.079 Yeah, exactly that. It was probably seven days for each 128 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:22.319 of the topics. So we kicked off the first the 129 00:07:22.360 --> 00:07:26.439 first ninety days in twenty twenty two was what is 130 00:07:26.519 --> 00:07:30.360 DevOps Like I've seen your videos, will that that kind 131 00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:34.079 of touches on on this and it was about like, so, 132 00:07:34.199 --> 00:07:36.279 what is DevOps and why DevOps and where did it 133 00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:39.759 even come from? And why are we talking about it 134 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:42.360 in twenty twenty two when it's been around since two 135 00:07:42.360 --> 00:07:45.319 thousand and nine, like that sort of thing, and some 136 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:48.240 of the use cases. And it's always the use cases 137 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:51.560 that we hear about. Oh it's Netflix did this, Aws 138 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:55.000 did that? It's so I wanted to actually, well, what 139 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:58.600 about the company down the road, how are they using DevOps? 140 00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:00.600 So we went into a little bit more of a 141 00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:05.959 DevOps for the normal the normal company, not the fan company, 142 00:08:06.639 --> 00:08:09.480 and then we kick off for seven days of like, so, 143 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:12.519 the first topic is go Lang learning a programming language, 144 00:08:12.519 --> 00:08:16.839 and there was a mixed uh. I got mixed feedback 145 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:20.199 on that because really, I'd be interested in what your 146 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:23.519 programming language or choice would be to learn first. From 147 00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:25.720 a DevOps point of view, I expect I know what 148 00:08:25.759 --> 00:08:29.639 the answer would be, but I'd be interested in your takes. 149 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:35.519 Yeah, for me, my answer is very nuanced, Like my 150 00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:42.399 first answer is what's the team you're working with using? 151 00:08:43.639 --> 00:08:46.960 You know, because if like you're working with a full 152 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:51.440 four stack JavaScript shop, just go with that so that 153 00:08:51.559 --> 00:08:56.120 you have some more connective tissue with the rest of 154 00:08:56.159 --> 00:08:58.799 your team. I think that's going to serve you much 155 00:08:58.879 --> 00:09:05.320 much more long term in helping that team then learning 156 00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:10.000 Go and being like the outsider who's always trying to 157 00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:15.200 sell this, you know. So I approach it from a 158 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:16.879 conversational point of view, where am I going to have 159 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:20.440 the most conversation touch points with the people that I'm supporting, 160 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:23.200 and so whatever their primary stack is would be my 161 00:09:23.279 --> 00:09:28.840 first choice. Assuming that you know they're not using Java. 162 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:32.720 I wouldn't recommend Java the first language, but if you 163 00:09:32.840 --> 00:09:35.679 if the fields wide open, you know, I would. I 164 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:37.559 think I would just stick with I would I would 165 00:09:37.559 --> 00:09:42.440 recommend Go. It's just to me, it feels it feels 166 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:47.600 very manageable to pick up as a first language. 167 00:09:49.919 --> 00:09:52.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. 168 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:54.879 I mean I think, well, well, now the most important 169 00:09:54.879 --> 00:09:56.519 part here, which is really the context. I mean, if 170 00:09:56.519 --> 00:09:59.440 we think about what DevOps is, it's really about merging 171 00:09:59.519 --> 00:10:01.799 of the mind sets and applying it no matter where 172 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:04.279 you are, so meeting the team where they're at, and 173 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:08.919 I don't think i've sort I often will advise companies 174 00:10:09.039 --> 00:10:13.080 and their engineering departments are using all sorts of strange 175 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:16.320 things that I would never personally use. Will mention Java 176 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:19.279 but I've seen Ruby and everything else, and there are 177 00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:22.039 some languages that I prefer to use personally more than 178 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:22.919 more than others. 179 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:24.360 And I see sort of. 180 00:10:25.879 --> 00:10:28.919 Concrete problems that show up because of the language of choice, 181 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:31.919 and you can maybe overcome those by picking something different. 182 00:10:32.200 --> 00:10:34.039 Right the sorts of problems, you'll end up with a 183 00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:38.440 non strong type language versus ones such as Go or 184 00:10:38.600 --> 00:10:41.679 rusts or whatever. You know, there are concrete benefits of 185 00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:43.679 using those. But when you think about here's where the 186 00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:45.639 team is at, what is the problem that we need 187 00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:48.159 to solve, trying to pull in the tools to help 188 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:50.799 you do it and not necessarily going out and changing 189 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:54.639 the language. Although you know, I've seen often there is 190 00:10:54.679 --> 00:10:57.639 this problem where a team may not be able to 191 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:02.120 embody the mindset that comes with because potentially the language 192 00:11:02.159 --> 00:11:04.600 or frameworks that they're using, they're just not conducive to 193 00:11:04.679 --> 00:11:07.519 thinking about those things. There's still a very much built 194 00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:10.399 in you use this language language thinks about throwing stuff 195 00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:12.720 over the wall to another team to go and run it. 196 00:11:14.399 --> 00:11:16.399 You're going to run into a problem there, and sometimes 197 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:19.200 you got to change the tools to match we want. 198 00:11:19.399 --> 00:11:21.480 But you know, if we're looking on the other side. 199 00:11:21.240 --> 00:11:22.039 You know what would I pick. 200 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:25.559 Personally, I've been super successful with Joba's script type script 201 00:11:25.720 --> 00:11:28.399 and RUSS, but I don't think the domain is super 202 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:30.320 critical there No. 203 00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:32.399 And you both you both hit on it right. And 204 00:11:32.519 --> 00:11:35.639 the reason I chose Go because being cast in an 205 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:39.360 acquisition that we'd made in twenty twenty, they were using 206 00:11:39.399 --> 00:11:42.320 Go lang to write their cloud native products. I didn't 207 00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:44.960 know Go and in fact I didn't know any programming language. 208 00:11:45.279 --> 00:11:47.519 So that seemed like a good start. But the amount 209 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:51.759 of people that were like, you should this should be Python, 210 00:11:51.840 --> 00:11:54.320 this should be Python, or this should be something else. 211 00:11:54.360 --> 00:11:57.679 And I get that, but to both of your point, 212 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:01.039 but I chose it for that reason, and I documented 213 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:03.799 and bearing in mind we're on day I think we 214 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:06.679 start this on day seven, the first time I've ever 215 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:10.320 done this, And this is me writing notes like me 216 00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:13.600 and my mum know about this. That's it. So it's 217 00:12:13.799 --> 00:12:16.679 it's it didn't turn out to be the twenty five 218 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:19.399 thousand plus stars that are on gethub for it now. 219 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:24.159 I can understand that then. But but and we covered 220 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:27.840 Python in the second year as well, and there's obviously 221 00:12:27.879 --> 00:12:30.080 so many more, but it's about it was for me. 222 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:32.279 It was so I could actually and it wasn't for 223 00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:34.919 me to have become a Go developer, because I don't. 224 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:38.039 I think the point is is a programming language for 225 00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:42.039 devots is very different to being an app developer in 226 00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:44.480 that I just want to be able to read this language. 227 00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:47.399 I want to be able to potentially make a CLI 228 00:12:47.639 --> 00:12:50.440 or some sort of tool that helps with my day 229 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:53.279 to day job. And the fact is is that Go 230 00:12:53.720 --> 00:12:57.240 is a great language for that sore so are others, 231 00:12:57.639 --> 00:13:00.480 but I chose it for them read So I did 232 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:03.279 point that out in there as well. But basically just 233 00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:07.679 to go back to why, like how how these modules 234 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:11.559 if you will, like set up, is that the first 235 00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:16.639 day we talk about programming languages in DevOps. So I 236 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:20.159 went away and I researched that for generally, I would 237 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:23.559 have spent about an hour two hours watching YouTube videos. 238 00:13:23.559 --> 00:13:27.120 A lot of yours will as well, and and others 239 00:13:28.120 --> 00:13:30.279 the smart people, and they're all referenced at the bottom 240 00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:33.600 of that the days as well. Right, I'm not again, 241 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:37.399 this isn't This wasn't anything for me. This is about 242 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:41.879 providing structured learning that we didn't have, and I still 243 00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:45.200 don't think. I'm not the answer to this is that 244 00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:50.440 oh learn DevOps, but Will's DevOps journey and yours, Warren 245 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:53.039 and mine are all different. And if we work at 246 00:13:53.080 --> 00:13:57.840 three different companies and your DevOps responsibilities are very different 247 00:13:57.879 --> 00:14:01.360 as well, Like we might touch the same similar things, 248 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:04.679 but everything is everything is a little bit different, and 249 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:08.240 it's more of a mindset on how can I learn 250 00:14:08.360 --> 00:14:11.720 quickly to understand the benefit of this, and if it's 251 00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:13.960 not right, throw it in the bin, let's go again, 252 00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:18.159 Like that's the that's the premise. But I didn't. I 253 00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:24.759 couldn't find that one YouTuber that was like, well, fixing 254 00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:29.200 my addiction to YouTube following the pandemic that so many 255 00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:33.200 people had. So I thought, well, I'm going to create 256 00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:36.519 something that at least will help me because I forget everything, 257 00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:37.840 so I want to be able to go back and 258 00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:40.519 reference this. So we go through the big picture, We 259 00:14:40.600 --> 00:14:42.480 go through a bit of theory about what go is, 260 00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:45.519 how it works, how it compiles, blah blah blah. Then 261 00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:47.679 we get hands on and we start interacting with the 262 00:14:47.720 --> 00:14:51.519 Twitter API that's now been changed so that I need 263 00:14:51.559 --> 00:14:54.440 to update that. But it was basically a little Twitter 264 00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:57.159 butt that would that you could write a bit bit 265 00:14:57.200 --> 00:15:02.720 more of that, like two oh one of the Hello world, 266 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:05.399 how can I interact with an API to make it 267 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:10.679 do something as and when something happens. So that long winded, 268 00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:12.720 that was what we started with. But each one of 269 00:15:12.759 --> 00:15:17.360 those sections, those modules takes that big picture, a bit 270 00:15:17.399 --> 00:15:19.679 of theory, and then some hands onto that. 271 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:23.279 I mean, I think really shouldn't undersell this here. I mean, 272 00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:26.159 you've got a repository on GitHub that has over twenty 273 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:29.639 six thousand stars and which really is which I know 274 00:15:29.720 --> 00:15:31.399 for sure, and in such a short period of time 275 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:35.159 it seems, and it's really just you going and learning 276 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:39.759 these individual topics one after another one to a sufficient 277 00:15:39.799 --> 00:15:41.639 degree that other people can go in and see it 278 00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:44.559 and get that same sort of learning. And really it's 279 00:15:44.559 --> 00:15:48.240 not about the maybe physical tool, but the real mindset 280 00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:51.080 that's behind DevOps and having a whole new approach that 281 00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:54.519 they can take to even their own projects or back 282 00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:58.200 to their workplace and share it with others. 283 00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:02.159 Yeah, it's it's been a it's been wild a while 284 00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:05.039 three years, that's for sure. And bringing on all of 285 00:16:05.080 --> 00:16:07.720 the community members to do the talks. Like if you 286 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:10.919 look at some of those sessions, some of those are 287 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:14.720 like gold, They're the sessions that you'd go to if 288 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:17.600 you went, if you went to conferences, they're the ones 289 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:20.120 that you'd actively like, are what I need to see 290 00:16:20.120 --> 00:16:23.559 this and perspective is so important in our in our 291 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:27.399 DevOps world. Is that again, just because I do something 292 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:29.759 my way and that's my responsibility, it won't be the 293 00:16:29.799 --> 00:16:33.559 same as what will does or you weren't. So seeing 294 00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:37.759 these all these different sessions on a w S as 295 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:42.200 your terrorform pollu me like all of the I guess 296 00:16:42.279 --> 00:16:46.440 competing products, but with a bit of an overlap as well, 297 00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:51.360 like it's pick it's about picking your picking, picking your horse, right, 298 00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:54.879 and but you can swap horses halfway through, like the 299 00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:59.440 amount of pollue me and Hashi Corp as well. So yeah, 300 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:02.879 I just I'm in a position as well at being 301 00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:06.319 where they give me the opportunity to do this, which 302 00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:10.680 is incredible. You think three years ago, pre pandemic, I 303 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:15.559 was purely focused on storage and virtualization. I've done a 304 00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:17.960 bit of terror form, I've done a bit of answerable, 305 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:20.720 I've done a bit of cloud, but that was it. 306 00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:24.279 Thrown me into this, gave me the opportunity to then 307 00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:28.359 go and learn a whole new community, a whole new ecosystem, 308 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:31.559 whilst still getting paid for it. I started a new 309 00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:34.680 job without having to start a new job, so it is, 310 00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:38.079 it's incredible, Like all of the community. There's a discord 311 00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:40.160 channel as well, with over a thousand people in there. 312 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:45.799 It's brilliant and like always already being asked what we're 313 00:17:45.799 --> 00:17:49.200 doing next year, Well, we have to take a year 314 00:17:49.240 --> 00:17:50.400 to figure that out. 315 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:55.680 You touched on something I think really important, and that's 316 00:17:57.160 --> 00:18:01.160 especially in the DevOps mindset sort of corner of the 317 00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:04.480 world that we end up finding ourselves in. We don't 318 00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:09.000 usually have experienced mentors that are within the same company 319 00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:12.359 or same organizational areas as us, and it can be 320 00:18:12.440 --> 00:18:14.960 quite the challenge of actually figuring out how to level 321 00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:20.039 up effectively within that scope. And you know, my usual 322 00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:22.480 recommendation is, you know, where are you getting information from 323 00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:25.240 the outside world that that's happening outside your company, and 324 00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:29.039 there's usually silence there. Like obviously there's some amount of 325 00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:33.160 challenge to engage yourself with content or other companies because 326 00:18:33.160 --> 00:18:36.160 not everything is public, So going out and actually finding 327 00:18:36.200 --> 00:18:39.160 good streams of information is for sure actually a challenge, 328 00:18:39.160 --> 00:18:42.200 but it's something that everyone who has a devlop, you know, 329 00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:44.680 is embodying the devofs mindset really needs to do in 330 00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:45.279 some regard. 331 00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:50.519 Interesting, you say that as well, that so the dead 332 00:18:50.599 --> 00:18:54.519 stats that you can get on the repo't I'll let 333 00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:57.440 the audience go and look up the big big companies 334 00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:00.440 that are behind it, and that they're not contacted anything. 335 00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:06.720 But there's some pretty big, big, big big vendors out 336 00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:09.640 there that are using this for what I can only 337 00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:13.799 see as a bit of an onboarding, like an onboarding 338 00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:16.200 kind of course, for their for their people. 339 00:19:16.519 --> 00:19:16.960 Interesting. 340 00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:19.279 To be fair, I don't do any sponsorship or anything 341 00:19:19.359 --> 00:19:22.000 like that on there, so there's no real way for 342 00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:23.680 them to reach out for that. 343 00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:27.680 I could imagine companies reaching out to you though, and 344 00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:31.160 asking you to come and actually speak or you know, 345 00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:34.119 pick some of your favorite modules that are fit for 346 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:40.039 their company and getting to actually talk through or workshop them. 347 00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:42.519 So if it all goes wrong at them, maybe that's 348 00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:46.119 maybe that's the way to go. But I made it, 349 00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:49.559 I made it quite clear earlier on but none of 350 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:52.720 this is sponsored content. So if I chose rg CD 351 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:57.079 is because I wanted to, there was no there was 352 00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:05.440 no influence at all, And I had another how can 353 00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:08.039 I put this without name in names? But everyone will 354 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:12.319 know if I say it, a typical database company that 355 00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:17.119 have a very strong licensing opinion, they reached out about 356 00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:22.359 their cloud infrastructure and they wanted me to cover them 357 00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:24.720 and they pay and that's what And I said, but 358 00:20:24.839 --> 00:20:28.720 that's going to lose the spirit of the of the 359 00:20:28.759 --> 00:20:31.799 whole whole process, like I could do. And I can 360 00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:33.759 say this because I'm a Hashi Corp ambassador and it 361 00:20:33.799 --> 00:20:37.519 wasn't then. But I've suggested I could do seven days 362 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:40.680 of Hashi Corp. We could go through seven products. We 363 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:42.839 could do ten days of Hashi Corp. I think probably, 364 00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:45.440 And that would be a great idea. But it'd have 365 00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:48.359 to be organic content. It wouldn't be you tell me 366 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:51.039 what to write, you pay me to do that, because 367 00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:54.599 you lose the trust with the community a lot of 368 00:20:54.640 --> 00:20:57.759 the time with that element of of why we do 369 00:20:57.799 --> 00:21:02.240 this stuff, and really the whole again, it goes back 370 00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:04.960 to the reason why I did this? Why did I 371 00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:07.720 start this? Because obviously when you start a project, you 372 00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:09.680 start with a logo and you start with a domain. 373 00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:12.559 That's before you even get into any of the hard work. 374 00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:16.799 It was it was all about it was all about learning. 375 00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:20.119 It was all about me just learning in public I've 376 00:21:20.119 --> 00:21:26.440 been around several different communities virtualization, VMware, NETAP from a 377 00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:30.720 storage perspective, Hashi Korp was then there on the edge 378 00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:33.559 before I jumped into the more of the cloud and 379 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:39.960 cloud native world, and there's never been that. I had 380 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:42.559 a conversation about this the other the other week about 381 00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:46.319 it's all about putting down the ladder. Use the ladder 382 00:21:46.359 --> 00:21:49.039 to get up. You might have used some videos, some 383 00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:52.960 content somewhere, and you can there's some people in this 384 00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:55.680 world that will absolutely take that ladder with them and 385 00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:58.119 they're never going to drop it down. If you can 386 00:21:58.200 --> 00:22:00.759 drop that down and help one person, then it's going 387 00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:04.240 to be massively impactful for that person wherever they are 388 00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:09.119 in the world. Right, And I've had that same ethos 389 00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:14.960 from doing blogs about open Stack fifteen years ago, is 390 00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:18.200 that even if you document something, blogs something and it 391 00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:22.400 only helps one person, then it's worth doing again. Same 392 00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:24.480 for this, right. That's why I did it on an 393 00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:28.119 open get hub RePOP was if it helps one person, 394 00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:31.400 then it's worth worth doing. And it helped me as well, 395 00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:34.119 so that was why. 396 00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:38.680 Yeah, And I think it's admirable just to avoid the 397 00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:43.599 sponsorship route because you know, like you're putting in a 398 00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:48.640 ton of time and effort on nursuit, like not only 399 00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:53.400 just to learn your own thing, but because you're you're 400 00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:55.839 trying to do it in public and you're trying to 401 00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:59.440