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Speaker 1: And we're live with another episode of Adventures and Devlops. Warren,

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Speaker 1: what's going on?

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Speaker 2: I wish I had something good to say. Uh, movie

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Speaker 2: on the spot there. I guess I can lead with

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Speaker 2: my facts, right.

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Speaker 1: My fault for asking you how you're doing? My God,

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Speaker 1: I should have known better.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, it's it's been quite a number of

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Speaker 2: episodes already. I feel like, you know, you really got

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Speaker 2: to spread that away before the I will I will

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Speaker 2: say I was a little disappointed by this, but I found

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Speaker 2: out recently that there are companies that leak their data

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Speaker 2: on purpose. They use it as an advertisement strategy so

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Speaker 2: people learn about the company, so vcs can learn about

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Speaker 2: them and potentially buy them later, because it's such a

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Speaker 2: great turnaround to say, hey, we had security problems in

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Speaker 2: the past, but then we fixed them. So if you

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Speaker 2: see on your LinkedIn stream or social media accounts some

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Speaker 2: companies saying oh no, this hotel, hell chain, or a

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Speaker 2: healthcare provider or leaked all their patient records, it may

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Speaker 2: have been an intentional strategy, just so that you will

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Speaker 2: learn about them and then maybe start paying the money

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Speaker 2: in the future.

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Speaker 1: I can only say that I'm disappointed, but not surprised

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Speaker 1: but also joining us today. I'm super excited about this

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Speaker 1: episode because I've been following Today's guests for quite a while,

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Speaker 1: through on ninety days of DevOps and through all of

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Speaker 1: your posts on x so Michael Caide, welcome.

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Speaker 3: Hey, thanks for having me guys.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, our pleasure and I'm excited. So for those who

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Speaker 1: maybe have never logged onto Twitter, because I think that's

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Speaker 1: the requirement to start seeing your post is just actually

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Speaker 1: log on. So for someone who's never been on there,

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Speaker 1: give us like the short version of your background.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, so I'm a The posh title is a

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Speaker 3: field CTO at VM Software. If you know VM software,

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Speaker 3: we focus on protecting workloads here, there, and everywhere. And

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Speaker 3: what I mean by that is we started off with

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Speaker 3: virtualization back up and then got into cloud based and

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Speaker 3: SaaS based and even communities based backups. So running state

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Speaker 3: for workloads, running databases, you name it, will protect it

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Speaker 3: type of thing. And the important part is is back

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Speaker 3: up is the boring part. The recovery is the the

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Speaker 3: easy part. But I guess more to the point where

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Speaker 3: where you came in Will was around the project that

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Speaker 3: I started kind of as we came out of the

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Speaker 3: or even the last year of the pandemic was ninety

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Speaker 3: days of DevOps And if you go to ninety days

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Speaker 3: at DevOps dot com, it was really about learning in public,

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Speaker 3: like being vulnerable and putting some structured learning out there.

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Speaker 3: It never was intended to be as big as this

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Speaker 3: to help as many people. It was there to help me.

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Speaker 3: It's just it started out as my notes, right, which

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Speaker 3: my Twitter is a graveyard of notes really that I'm

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Speaker 3: just shouting in my own little bubble. But yeah, been

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Speaker 3: in the infrastructure world for twenty years. I would say

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Speaker 3: the last three to five years has been focused around

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Speaker 3: DevOps and then more recently around cloud and cloud Native.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, definitely listening to the podcast and taking a

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Speaker 3: lot in so yeah.

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Speaker 1: Right, and so ninety days of DevOps was your like

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Speaker 1: learning and public thing, but that's been more than ninety

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Speaker 1: days ago. So what's the current state of that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So we started in twenty twenty two, I think

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Speaker 3: it was, and that was me going through the weird

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Speaker 3: roads of DevOps, if you will, And I didn't want,

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Speaker 3: like I've seen loads of people do one hundred days

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Speaker 3: of code or one hundred days of communeties and one

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Speaker 3: hundred days of this and one hundred days of cloud

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Speaker 3: and I was like, I can't concentrate for one hundred days.

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Speaker 3: I can't do that. And DevOps isn't you can't do it. Look,

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Speaker 3: DevOps isn't just one area right as you as you

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Speaker 3: all know. So I took that concept of ninety days

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Speaker 3: of DevOps and this was This was on New Year's

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Speaker 3: Eve as we were going into twenty twenty two. We're

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Speaker 3: just in a pandemic and as most of my my

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Speaker 3: friends would be out drinking, I'm sat at home going right,

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Speaker 3: how do we kickstart this year? And normally it's a

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Speaker 3: fitness challenge for ninety days or something like that. This

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Speaker 3: year was no. What we're going to do is we're

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Speaker 3: going to we're going to start a get repository and

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Speaker 3: we're going to start loads of markdown files and we're

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Speaker 3: going to go through twelve or thirteen different topics of

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Speaker 3: DevOps and we're going to not deep dive into them,

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Speaker 3: but we're going to get a little bit. We're going

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Speaker 3: to get we're going to get the big picture, we're

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Speaker 3: going to get some theory around that, and we're going

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Speaker 3: to get some hands on over all of these weird

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Speaker 3: and wonderful words that we see in the in the industry.

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Speaker 3: So there's a top pick around go, but go lang

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Speaker 3: not as a developer. I'm not a developer by any stretch,

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Speaker 3: But what does the programming language look like? From a

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Speaker 3: DevOps point of view? We need to know Maybe we

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Speaker 3: need to know how to read the code, just understand it.

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Speaker 3: Maybe we do need to understand how to create a

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Speaker 3: little a little bit better than a bast script on

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Speaker 3: how to achieve some automation. There's cumunetties in their containerization,

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Speaker 3: Linux networking, all of that and how it pertains to

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Speaker 3: the DevOps topic. So that was the first year. It

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Speaker 3: was one hundred and ten thousand words. It was basically

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Speaker 3: a blogger day for ninety days. We fast forward to

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty three and instead of me doing that, and

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Speaker 3: I missed out so much around security, and I think

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Speaker 3: the world missed out on. If you think about twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty two, DevOps was the thing. Dev scops was the

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Speaker 3: new thing as we went through twenty twenty three or

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty two into twenty twenty three. So I went

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Speaker 3: out to some friends and they as SMEs, they subject

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Speaker 3: matter experts. They came out and they provided the blog

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Speaker 3: posts for each day of their section for the twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty three edition and then just recently of March the

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Speaker 3: thirty first, we finished ninety days again. But I wanted

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Speaker 3: to we couldn't just do let's write a load more things,

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Speaker 3: and I wanted to change up what that was. So

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Speaker 3: we put out a call for papers and we actually

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Speaker 3: had ninety one sessions from ninety one different people. It

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Speaker 3: was ninety one for a reason. It was a leap

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Speaker 3: year this year, and so yeah, we had all of those,

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Speaker 3: all of those sessions on YouTube as well. So it

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Speaker 3: was about changing the format of what.

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Speaker 1: It was, greight Ie. So just taking the different topics

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Speaker 1: and then dedicating a day to each of those topics

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Speaker 1: so that you can do, you know, a little bit

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Speaker 1: deeper than just Hello World on those and kind of

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Speaker 1: walk away with not like an expert level knowledge, but

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Speaker 1: like a conversational knowledge of that topic.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly that. It was probably seven days for each

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Speaker 3: of the topics. So we kicked off the first the

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Speaker 3: first ninety days in twenty twenty two was what is

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Speaker 3: DevOps Like I've seen your videos, will that that kind

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Speaker 3: of touches on on this and it was about like, so,

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Speaker 3: what is DevOps and why DevOps and where did it

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Speaker 3: even come from? And why are we talking about it

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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two when it's been around since two

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Speaker 3: thousand and nine, like that sort of thing, and some

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Speaker 3: of the use cases. And it's always the use cases

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Speaker 3: that we hear about. Oh it's Netflix did this, Aws

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Speaker 3: did that? It's so I wanted to actually, well, what

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Speaker 3: about the company down the road, how are they using DevOps?

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Speaker 3: So we went into a little bit more of a

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Speaker 3: DevOps for the normal the normal company, not the fan company,

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Speaker 3: and then we kick off for seven days of like, so,

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Speaker 3: the first topic is go Lang learning a programming language,

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Speaker 3: and there was a mixed uh. I got mixed feedback

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Speaker 3: on that because really, I'd be interested in what your

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Speaker 3: programming language or choice would be to learn first. From

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Speaker 3: a DevOps point of view, I expect I know what

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Speaker 3: the answer would be, but I'd be interested in your takes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for me, my answer is very nuanced, Like my

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Speaker 1: first answer is what's the team you're working with using?

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Speaker 1: You know, because if like you're working with a full

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Speaker 1: four stack JavaScript shop, just go with that so that

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Speaker 1: you have some more connective tissue with the rest of

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Speaker 1: your team. I think that's going to serve you much

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Speaker 1: much more long term in helping that team then learning

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Speaker 1: Go and being like the outsider who's always trying to

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Speaker 1: sell this, you know. So I approach it from a

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Speaker 1: conversational point of view, where am I going to have

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Speaker 1: the most conversation touch points with the people that I'm supporting,

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Speaker 1: and so whatever their primary stack is would be my

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Speaker 1: first choice. Assuming that you know they're not using Java.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't recommend Java the first language, but if you

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Speaker 1: if the fields wide open, you know, I would. I

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Speaker 1: think I would just stick with I would I would

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Speaker 1: recommend Go. It's just to me, it feels it feels

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Speaker 1: very manageable to pick up as a first language.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 2: I mean I think, well, well, now the most important

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Speaker 2: part here, which is really the context. I mean, if

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Speaker 2: we think about what DevOps is, it's really about merging

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Speaker 2: of the mind sets and applying it no matter where

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Speaker 2: you are, so meeting the team where they're at, and

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Speaker 2: I don't think i've sort I often will advise companies

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Speaker 2: and their engineering departments are using all sorts of strange

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Speaker 2: things that I would never personally use. Will mention Java

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Speaker 2: but I've seen Ruby and everything else, and there are

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Speaker 2: some languages that I prefer to use personally more than

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Speaker 2: more than others.

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Speaker 4: And I see sort of.

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Speaker 2: Concrete problems that show up because of the language of choice,

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Speaker 2: and you can maybe overcome those by picking something different.

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Speaker 2: Right the sorts of problems, you'll end up with a

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Speaker 2: non strong type language versus ones such as Go or

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Speaker 2: rusts or whatever. You know, there are concrete benefits of

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Speaker 2: using those. But when you think about here's where the

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Speaker 2: team is at, what is the problem that we need

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Speaker 2: to solve, trying to pull in the tools to help

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Speaker 2: you do it and not necessarily going out and changing

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Speaker 2: the language. Although you know, I've seen often there is

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Speaker 2: this problem where a team may not be able to

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Speaker 2: embody the mindset that comes with because potentially the language

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Speaker 2: or frameworks that they're using, they're just not conducive to

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Speaker 2: thinking about those things. There's still a very much built

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Speaker 2: in you use this language language thinks about throwing stuff

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Speaker 2: over the wall to another team to go and run it.

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Speaker 2: You're going to run into a problem there, and sometimes

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Speaker 2: you got to change the tools to match we want.

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Speaker 2: But you know, if we're looking on the other side.

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Speaker 4: You know what would I pick.

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Speaker 2: Personally, I've been super successful with Joba's script type script

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Speaker 2: and RUSS, but I don't think the domain is super

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Speaker 2: critical there No.

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Speaker 3: And you both you both hit on it right. And

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Speaker 3: the reason I chose Go because being cast in an

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Speaker 3: acquisition that we'd made in twenty twenty, they were using

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Speaker 3: Go lang to write their cloud native products. I didn't

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Speaker 3: know Go and in fact I didn't know any programming language.

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Speaker 3: So that seemed like a good start. But the amount

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Speaker 3: of people that were like, you should this should be Python,

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Speaker 3: this should be Python, or this should be something else.

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Speaker 3: And I get that, but to both of your point,

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Speaker 3: but I chose it for that reason, and I documented

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Speaker 3: and bearing in mind we're on day I think we

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Speaker 3: start this on day seven, the first time I've ever

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Speaker 3: done this, And this is me writing notes like me

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Speaker 3: and my mum know about this. That's it. So it's

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Speaker 3: it's it didn't turn out to be the twenty five

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Speaker 3: thousand plus stars that are on gethub for it now.

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Speaker 3: I can understand that then. But but and we covered

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Speaker 3: Python in the second year as well, and there's obviously

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Speaker 3: so many more, but it's about it was for me.

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Speaker 3: It was so I could actually and it wasn't for

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Speaker 3: me to have become a Go developer, because I don't.

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Speaker 3: I think the point is is a programming language for

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Speaker 3: devots is very different to being an app developer in

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Speaker 3: that I just want to be able to read this language.

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Speaker 3: I want to be able to potentially make a CLI

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Speaker 3: or some sort of tool that helps with my day

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Speaker 3: to day job. And the fact is is that Go

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Speaker 3: is a great language for that sore so are others,

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Speaker 3: but I chose it for them read So I did

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Speaker 3: point that out in there as well. But basically just

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Speaker 3: to go back to why, like how how these modules

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Speaker 3: if you will, like set up, is that the first

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Speaker 3: day we talk about programming languages in DevOps. So I

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Speaker 3: went away and I researched that for generally, I would

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Speaker 3: have spent about an hour two hours watching YouTube videos.

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Speaker 3: A lot of yours will as well, and and others

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Speaker 3: the smart people, and they're all referenced at the bottom

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Speaker 3: of that the days as well. Right, I'm not again,

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Speaker 3: this isn't This wasn't anything for me. This is about

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Speaker 3: providing structured learning that we didn't have, and I still

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Speaker 3: don't think. I'm not the answer to this is that

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Speaker 3: oh learn DevOps, but Will's DevOps journey and yours, Warren

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Speaker 3: and mine are all different. And if we work at

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Speaker 3: three different companies and your DevOps responsibilities are very different

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Speaker 3: as well, Like we might touch the same similar things,

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Speaker 3: but everything is everything is a little bit different, and

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Speaker 3: it's more of a mindset on how can I learn

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Speaker 3: quickly to understand the benefit of this, and if it's

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Speaker 3: not right, throw it in the bin, let's go again,

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Speaker 3: Like that's the that's the premise. But I didn't. I

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Speaker 3: couldn't find that one YouTuber that was like, well, fixing

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Speaker 3: my addiction to YouTube following the pandemic that so many

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Speaker 3: people had. So I thought, well, I'm going to create

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Speaker 3: something that at least will help me because I forget everything,

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Speaker 3: so I want to be able to go back and

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Speaker 3: reference this. So we go through the big picture, We

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Speaker 3: go through a bit of theory about what go is,

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Speaker 3: how it works, how it compiles, blah blah blah. Then

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Speaker 3: we get hands on and we start interacting with the

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Speaker 3: Twitter API that's now been changed so that I need

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Speaker 3: to update that. But it was basically a little Twitter

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Speaker 3: butt that would that you could write a bit bit

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Speaker 3: more of that, like two oh one of the Hello world,

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Speaker 3: how can I interact with an API to make it

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Speaker 3: do something as and when something happens. So that long winded,

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Speaker 3: that was what we started with. But each one of

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Speaker 3: those sections, those modules takes that big picture, a bit

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Speaker 3: of theory, and then some hands onto that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think really shouldn't undersell this here. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you've got a repository on GitHub that has over twenty

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Speaker 2: six thousand stars and which really is which I know

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Speaker 2: for sure, and in such a short period of time

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Speaker 2: it seems, and it's really just you going and learning

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Speaker 2: these individual topics one after another one to a sufficient

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Speaker 2: degree that other people can go in and see it

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Speaker 2: and get that same sort of learning. And really it's

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Speaker 2: not about the maybe physical tool, but the real mindset

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Speaker 2: that's behind DevOps and having a whole new approach that

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Speaker 2: they can take to even their own projects or back

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Speaker 2: to their workplace and share it with others.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's been a it's been wild a while

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Speaker 3: three years, that's for sure. And bringing on all of

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Speaker 3: the community members to do the talks. Like if you

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Speaker 3: look at some of those sessions, some of those are

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Speaker 3: like gold, They're the sessions that you'd go to if

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Speaker 3: you went, if you went to conferences, they're the ones

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Speaker 3: that you'd actively like, are what I need to see

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Speaker 3: this and perspective is so important in our in our

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Speaker 3: DevOps world. Is that again, just because I do something

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Speaker 3: my way and that's my responsibility, it won't be the

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Speaker 3: same as what will does or you weren't. So seeing

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Speaker 3: these all these different sessions on a w S as

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Speaker 3: your terrorform pollu me like all of the I guess

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Speaker 3: competing products, but with a bit of an overlap as well,

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Speaker 3: like it's pick it's about picking your picking, picking your horse, right,

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Speaker 3: and but you can swap horses halfway through, like the

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Speaker 3: amount of pollue me and Hashi Corp as well. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: I just I'm in a position as well at being

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Speaker 3: where they give me the opportunity to do this, which

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Speaker 3: is incredible. You think three years ago, pre pandemic, I

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Speaker 3: was purely focused on storage and virtualization. I've done a

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Speaker 3: bit of terror form, I've done a bit of answerable,

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Speaker 3: I've done a bit of cloud, but that was it.

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Speaker 3: Thrown me into this, gave me the opportunity to then

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Speaker 3: go and learn a whole new community, a whole new ecosystem,

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Speaker 3: whilst still getting paid for it. I started a new

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Speaker 3: job without having to start a new job, so it is,

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Speaker 3: it's incredible, Like all of the community. There's a discord

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Speaker 3: channel as well, with over a thousand people in there.

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Speaker 3: It's brilliant and like always already being asked what we're

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Speaker 3: doing next year, Well, we have to take a year

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Speaker 3: to figure that out.

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Speaker 2: You touched on something I think really important, and that's

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Speaker 2: especially in the DevOps mindset sort of corner of the

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Speaker 2: world that we end up finding ourselves in. We don't

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Speaker 2: usually have experienced mentors that are within the same company

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Speaker 2: or same organizational areas as us, and it can be

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Speaker 2: quite the challenge of actually figuring out how to level

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Speaker 2: up effectively within that scope. And you know, my usual

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Speaker 2: recommendation is, you know, where are you getting information from

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Speaker 2: the outside world that that's happening outside your company, and

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Speaker 2: there's usually silence there. Like obviously there's some amount of

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Speaker 2: challenge to engage yourself with content or other companies because

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Speaker 2: not everything is public, So going out and actually finding

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Speaker 2: good streams of information is for sure actually a challenge,

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Speaker 2: but it's something that everyone who has a devlop, you know,

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Speaker 2: is embodying the devofs mindset really needs to do in

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Speaker 2: some regard.

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Speaker 3: Interesting, you say that as well, that so the dead

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Speaker 3: stats that you can get on the repo't I'll let

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Speaker 3: the audience go and look up the big big companies

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Speaker 3: that are behind it, and that they're not contacted anything.

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Speaker 3: But there's some pretty big, big, big big vendors out

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Speaker 3: there that are using this for what I can only

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Speaker 3: see as a bit of an onboarding, like an onboarding

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Speaker 3: kind of course, for their for their people.

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Speaker 4: Interesting.

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Speaker 3: To be fair, I don't do any sponsorship or anything

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Speaker 3: like that on there, so there's no real way for

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Speaker 3: them to reach out for that.

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Speaker 2: I could imagine companies reaching out to you though, and

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Speaker 2: asking you to come and actually speak or you know,

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Speaker 2: pick some of your favorite modules that are fit for

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Speaker 2: their company and getting to actually talk through or workshop them.

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Speaker 3: So if it all goes wrong at them, maybe that's

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Speaker 3: maybe that's the way to go. But I made it,

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Speaker 3: I made it quite clear earlier on but none of

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Speaker 3: this is sponsored content. So if I chose rg CD

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Speaker 3: is because I wanted to, there was no there was

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Speaker 3: no influence at all, And I had another how can

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Speaker 3: I put this without name in names? But everyone will

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Speaker 3: know if I say it, a typical database company that

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Speaker 3: have a very strong licensing opinion, they reached out about

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Speaker 3: their cloud infrastructure and they wanted me to cover them

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Speaker 3: and they pay and that's what And I said, but

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Speaker 3: that's going to lose the spirit of the of the

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Speaker 3: whole whole process, like I could do. And I can

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Speaker 3: say this because I'm a Hashi Corp ambassador and it

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Speaker 3: wasn't then. But I've suggested I could do seven days

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Speaker 3: of Hashi Corp. We could go through seven products. We

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Speaker 3: could do ten days of Hashi Corp. I think probably,

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Speaker 3: And that would be a great idea. But it'd have

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Speaker 3: to be organic content. It wouldn't be you tell me

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Speaker 3: what to write, you pay me to do that, because

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Speaker 3: you lose the trust with the community a lot of

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Speaker 3: the time with that element of of why we do

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Speaker 3: this stuff, and really the whole again, it goes back

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Speaker 3: to the reason why I did this? Why did I

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Speaker 3: start this? Because obviously when you start a project, you

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Speaker 3: start with a logo and you start with a domain.

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Speaker 3: That's before you even get into any of the hard work.

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Speaker 3: It was it was all about it was all about learning.

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Speaker 3: It was all about me just learning in public I've

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Speaker 3: been around several different communities virtualization, VMware, NETAP from a

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Speaker 3: storage perspective, Hashi Korp was then there on the edge

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Speaker 3: before I jumped into the more of the cloud and

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Speaker 3: cloud native world, and there's never been that. I had

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Speaker 3: a conversation about this the other the other week about

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Speaker 3: it's all about putting down the ladder. Use the ladder

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Speaker 3: to get up. You might have used some videos, some

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Speaker 3: content somewhere, and you can there's some people in this

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Speaker 3: world that will absolutely take that ladder with them and

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Speaker 3: they're never going to drop it down. If you can

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Speaker 3: drop that down and help one person, then it's going

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Speaker 3: to be massively impactful for that person wherever they are

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Speaker 3: in the world. Right, And I've had that same ethos

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Speaker 3: from doing blogs about open Stack fifteen years ago, is

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Speaker 3: that even if you document something, blogs something and it

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Speaker 3: only helps one person, then it's worth doing again. Same

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Speaker 3: for this, right. That's why I did it on an

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Speaker 3: open get hub RePOP was if it helps one person,

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Speaker 3: then it's worth worth doing. And it helped me as well,

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Speaker 3: so that was why.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it's admirable just to avoid the

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Speaker 1: sponsorship route because you know, like you're putting in a

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Speaker 1: ton of time and effort on nursuit, like not only

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Speaker 1: just to learn your own thing, but because you're you're

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Speaker 1: trying to do it in public and you're trying to

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Speaker 1: share it so that it is helpful for someone else.

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Speaker 1: So that puts a lot of additional steps in achieving

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Speaker 1: a task, you know, because you could have done this

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Speaker 1: yourself in a notepad doc on your desktop and gotten

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Speaker 1: all the benefits there. But choosing to share it, you know,

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Speaker 1: as an extra level of work to it. That's a

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Speaker 1: huge time commitment. And I think that's part of the

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Speaker 1: allure of doing sponsored videos or taking on sponsorships, because

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Speaker 1: it helps you feel like you're justifying some of that time.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, I agree with you whenever

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Speaker 1: you choose to take on the sponsorship, in my mind,

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Speaker 1: that changes the scope of work because now instead of

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Speaker 1: creating something for me to share, I have to create

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Speaker 1: something for the sponsor that represents their brand. And those

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Speaker 1: are in some and sometimes two entirely different pieces of content.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I know, I know that there's a day

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Speaker 3: and I'll let I'll let people go and find the day.

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Speaker 3: But where I'm trying to get not Antimle. I'm trying

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Speaker 3: to get Jenkins up and running a doctor container, which

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Speaker 3: it clearly wasn't built for this situation right now. But

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Speaker 3: we're like even in the comments, I know there's a

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Speaker 3: paragraph there going I couldn't get this to work. Then

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Speaker 3: there's an update. I got this to work, but I

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Speaker 3: had to do this, this, this, and this and that.

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Speaker 3: I left it all in because people will have that

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Speaker 3: same problem. They'll have that same issue. And but if

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Speaker 3: that was if that was Jenkins paying for said said

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Speaker 3: blog or said YouTube video, they wouldn't want me to fail.

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Speaker 3: They'd want it to be clean, crisp cut, like this

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Speaker 3: is how it works. Now. I know that's not that's

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Speaker 3: not fair to all vendors or projects out there. Some

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Speaker 3: will like to see the like warts and all, but

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Speaker 3: the majority would one hundred percent want it to be

434
00:25:02,759 --> 00:25:05,039
Speaker 3: clean cut and look how good our software is.

435
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, I think there's a huge brand component

436
00:25:08,799 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 2: to this. Like when you're going out and you're creating

437
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,039
Speaker 2: content for the world, what does that say about the

438
00:25:14,039 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 2: person who is creating that content realistically? And you take

439
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 2: that with you when you go somewhere else. If you

440
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 2: want to be someone who sells your content. You know

441
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 2: that's your job or that's who you want to be,

442
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,039
Speaker 2: then you know there's something wrong with that. If you

443
00:25:26,039 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 2: want to be someone who creates publicly available content, you

444
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,079
Speaker 2: know that becomes part of your brand. And I feel

445
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 2: like at the upper echelon levels of software engineering, there

446
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,559
Speaker 2: is this expectation that you are positively contributing to the community,

447
00:25:39,599 --> 00:25:42,079
Speaker 2: and I feel like going out and selling your content

448
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,519
Speaker 2: isn't necessarily aligned with that. Being able to provide it

449
00:25:45,559 --> 00:25:48,559
Speaker 2: for free or at conferences or through trainings.

450
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:49,079
Speaker 4: Workshops, et cetera.

451
00:25:49,759 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 2: There's a very different perspective there, and I don't think

452
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 2: we can get as far with just only sponsored content,

453
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 2: as you said, for the obvious reasons of companies paying

454
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 2: for I mean, if you're doing that, then you're likely

455
00:26:02,759 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 2: going to end up competing with llms in the future

456
00:26:06,039 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 2: who are going to optimize for just getting the work

457
00:26:08,519 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 2: done rather than the actual you know, learning experience.

458
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:15,599
Speaker 3: Not an issue.

459
00:26:16,279 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: No, No LLM can butcher the English language as badly

460
00:26:19,759 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: as I can. I've got that market coy.

461
00:26:24,559 --> 00:26:27,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, you wouldn't believe the amount of contributions on the

462
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 3: repo as well for a native English guy making mistakes

463
00:26:34,599 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 3: it's a green it's a green tip, it's a green box, right,

464
00:26:37,559 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 3: you can people have Well, the mind blowing thing is

465
00:26:41,799 --> 00:26:44,599
Speaker 3: not only that, but there is a of a lot

466
00:26:44,599 --> 00:26:49,599
Speaker 3: of spelling and grammar mistakes that have been corrected. But equally,

467
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 3: it's been translated into different languages. If you go if

468
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,599
Speaker 3: you go to the to the repo and you go

469
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,599
Speaker 3: to twenty twenty two at the top there you'll see

470
00:27:00,599 --> 00:27:08,319
Speaker 3: it's been translated into Vietnamese, Chinese, Polish. It's not ridiculous,

471
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 3: it's amazing, but it's ridiculous. That's so cool. I just hope,

472
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,559
Speaker 3: I hope they're not writing anything bad about me.

473
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 1: So what kind of feedback? I mean, obviously with twenty

474
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:29,559
Speaker 1: six thousand stars, you know, there's been You've hit a

475
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:34,799
Speaker 1: chord in the community. It's definitely appreciated content. Have you gotten,

476
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: like any any success stories or like really cool feedback moments,

477
00:27:41,759 --> 00:27:43,839
Speaker 1: because I know, just in the YouTube videos I've done,

478
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 1: there's been a few people who have reached out to

479
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: me over the years and said, hey, I watched your

480
00:27:50,279 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: videos and did the things that you suggested in this

481
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,559
Speaker 1: particular video, and it helped me land my first job,

482
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,839
Speaker 1: you know, and to me like that was just mind blowing.

483
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 1: I don't know what the rest of my life holds,

484
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 1: but to hear something like that, like you had that

485
00:28:06,759 --> 00:28:10,759
Speaker 1: kind of impact on someone's life, Like that's crowning achievement

486
00:28:10,839 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 1: to me. So what what have you gotten back for

487
00:28:13,519 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: feedback from this?

488
00:28:15,079 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 3: So so similar will similar things like people that are

489
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,839
Speaker 3: just starting out of college and they'll use the REPO

490
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 3: and oh, I landed my first job. And also I

491
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,079
Speaker 3: think personal like so personally that's brilliant, like the same

492
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,759
Speaker 3: as you will. Like to think that I would ever

493
00:28:32,799 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 3: have an impact on anyone's life is incredible, Like I

494
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 3: never thought it. Probably the same as you is that

495
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 3: I never thought that that would be a thing. I

496
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 3: didn't think i'd build something that would impact someone, but

497
00:28:45,039 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 3: equally on a on a personal level as well. It's

498
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:54,039
Speaker 3: enabled me to go and speak at events. I've always

499
00:28:54,039 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 3: done public speaking from a again virtualization storage like vm

500
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 3: World before it was VMware Explore all of that. I've

501
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:07,799
Speaker 3: done the yearly conference trips, but I hadn't done the

502
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,839
Speaker 3: DevOps conference trips. I hadn't been to HASHIKM, I hadn't

503
00:29:11,839 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 3: been to other like uh we are developers for example,

504
00:29:18,519 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 3: and I strongly believe that doing this gave me a

505
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 3: little bit more credibility to be able to go and

506
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 3: do that. And I think to your point, Warren, I

507
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,759
Speaker 3: think also the amount of people that I've had reached

508
00:29:33,799 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 3: out to me saying like, if it doesn't if it

509
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 3: doesn't work out, a beam, but just give us a

510
00:29:40,559 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 3: give us a ring. But because that's it's a it's

511
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 3: a community angle that they see that they could they

512
00:29:48,799 --> 00:29:52,599
Speaker 3: could use within their within their efforts in the community

513
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,039
Speaker 3: as well. But yeah, I think I think overall is

514
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 3: it's about helping helping people. That's the that's the biggest thing.

515
00:30:00,319 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 3: And then yeah, the thought leadership or the ability to

516
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:10,319
Speaker 3: be validated to go and speak at these events is

517
00:30:10,759 --> 00:30:15,799
Speaker 3: nice and quite frankly strange as well, but people speak

518
00:30:15,799 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 3: about it. I think the one, the one that really

519
00:30:20,079 --> 00:30:22,759
Speaker 3: hits home for me is the Hashi Hashi comp when

520
00:30:22,759 --> 00:30:26,319
Speaker 3: it was in Amsterdam two years ago. I was speaking

521
00:30:26,359 --> 00:30:29,079
Speaker 3: there and it was they asked me to speak about

522
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 3: ninety days of DeVos. It was like a fifteen to

523
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 3: twenty minute type community session and it was equally quite

524
00:30:36,319 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 3: strange to talk about it then, and bearing in mind

525
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,599
Speaker 3: that's two years ago, we'd only just finished that first one.

526
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,799
Speaker 3: We were probably on ten thousand stars, and then having

527
00:30:45,839 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 3: people come up to you and say, this is amazing,

528
00:30:48,599 --> 00:30:50,839
Speaker 3: I can't believe I haven't seen it. And to your

529
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 3: initial point, will like, you only hear about it on

530
00:30:54,319 --> 00:30:57,319
Speaker 3: Twitter or on x but I need to be better

531
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 3: at sharing this stuff as well elsewhere.

532
00:31:02,039 --> 00:31:04,839
Speaker 1: That's the hard part, you know, I think, because that

533
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:10,759
Speaker 1: requires a completely different set of skills to promote your work,

534
00:31:12,079 --> 00:31:15,359
Speaker 1: and you have to learn those, and it feels very

535
00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: awkward to learn those, you know, especially whenever you take

536
00:31:20,279 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: this from the approach of like, I'm just doing this

537
00:31:22,039 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: to to maintain my own skill set in my chosen

538
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: career path, you know, and then you have you turn

539
00:31:30,279 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: that around, you're like, oh, how do I promote myself

540
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:38,799
Speaker 1: and market my content that was never really meant to

541
00:31:38,839 --> 00:31:42,799
Speaker 1: be content anyway? And I remember, like, the one of

542
00:31:42,799 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: the key moments for me was the first time I

543
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: had to write a bio for a talk I was giving,

544
00:31:49,799 --> 00:31:52,599
Speaker 1: you know, and you're you write, you write your own

545
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,119
Speaker 1: bio in the third person, and you know, to me,

546
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: that was just like blue screen of death in the brain,

547
00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:02,039
Speaker 1: you know, I just couldn't wrap my hair around that.

548
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I get exactly the same anything about myself.

549
00:32:07,119 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 3: Is that to your point worry like whatever this is,

550
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 3: it doesn't It just feels strange of like how how

551
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,799
Speaker 3: big it's become or even And I'm a I'm a

552
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 3: ultimately I'm a pessimist at heart anyway in that you

553
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,759
Speaker 3: look at those those twenty five thousand stars and I

554
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 3: just said, like are they important? Are they just vanity metrics?

555
00:32:29,039 --> 00:32:31,839
Speaker 3: If that was software, you'd be up there with one

556
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,799
Speaker 3: of the biggest And I'm like, that's that's crazy. So

557
00:32:36,799 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 3: so yeah, it's it's it's a it's an interesting and

558
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,279
Speaker 3: I've seen others as well do like follow that into

559
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,599
Speaker 3: like creating content, sharing in public and all of that

560
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 3: good stuff, and and yeah, it's been a yeah, it's

561
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 3: been good, like people cloning the repository and then going

562
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,519
Speaker 3: off and doing their own journey, which was kind of

563
00:33:01,519 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 3: the idea as well, in that if I could, if

564
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 3: you could build a template repo for people to go

565
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 3: and walk and talk the same thing. You go and learn,

566
00:33:10,039 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 3: and then you get a perspective and then we start

567
00:33:12,039 --> 00:33:15,799
Speaker 3: sharing lots lots of different perspectives. That's we're all going

568
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 3: to learn a lot more and Warren, actually, you brought

569
00:33:19,039 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 3: up a good point and someone else said about this.

570
00:33:21,599 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 3: Are you worried about LM's having all of this information?

571
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,759
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, I didn't make it up. This information

572
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 3: is fully available if you go to the bottom of

573
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 3: each day. There's smarter people than me talking about this

574
00:33:34,799 --> 00:33:38,119
Speaker 3: stuff all over the internet, and there's heaps of documentation

575
00:33:38,319 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 3: that touches on all of this. If an LM can

576
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,559
Speaker 3: take ninety days of devop to make things easier, let's

577
00:33:44,559 --> 00:33:51,359
Speaker 3: go like that's only a good thing as well. So yeah,

578
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 3: for sure.

579
00:33:52,279 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 1: So one thing I want to talk about with you

580
00:33:54,079 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: because you've got you know, you're you're all at them

581
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: and then you're creating the US on the side. And

582
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:07,039
Speaker 1: then I know that you're also active physically, So how

583
00:34:07,079 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 1: do you structure your day or what's your thought process

584
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,159
Speaker 1: for balancing those different areas of your life.

585
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:17,679
Speaker 3: No, that's a good one. I don't know if I

586
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 3: balance anything, but and for anyone that follows me on

587
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 3: any social media, you know that I spend more time

588
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 3: on a plane than I do in my own bed,

589
00:34:29,599 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 3: or at least in a different country. And the one

590
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,119
Speaker 3: thing I absolutely love about working for VEMA and I'm

591
00:34:37,119 --> 00:34:40,079
Speaker 3: sure other companies are like it. That my opportunity is,

592
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:45,199
Speaker 3: or my goal or my responsibility at being is to

593
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,280
Speaker 3: raise awareness and drive some sort of adoption to our software.

594
00:34:50,079 --> 00:34:53,679
Speaker 3: Now we have community addition and open source projects that

595
00:34:54,559 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 3: to me is still driving adoption, and then we obviously

596
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:02,039
Speaker 3: have paid for products as well. And raising awareness is

597
00:35:02,079 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 3: what I can do best by talking at events, talking

598
00:35:05,519 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 3: about what we do, some cool use cases that we

599
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,639
Speaker 3: see out there in the field, and that means jumping

600
00:35:10,639 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 3: on a plane generally and being and giving those those

601
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:19,639
Speaker 3: sessions at things like red Hat Summit, Cube Con, Hashi,

602
00:35:19,679 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 3: KOMPF and others. But the other great thing about them

603
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,639
Speaker 3: is that well, every day's every day is different. And

604
00:35:28,679 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 3: you could wake up at eight o'clock on Monday morning

605
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,519
Speaker 3: and you think this is what we're going into and

606
00:35:33,559 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 3: then by nine o'clock is completely different and your day change.

607
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 3: That every day can be different at them, and that's

608
00:35:39,559 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 3: the exciting bit. And because over the last ten years,

609
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 3: I've been at Beam for nine and a half years now.

610
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 3: So I started and we only had virtual machine backup

611
00:35:50,199 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 3: VMware backups, and now we have we can back up everything,

612
00:35:55,199 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 3: so I can I can flip and change, and there's

613
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,599
Speaker 3: all the different communities for each of those different different services,

614
00:36:01,639 --> 00:36:05,159
Speaker 3: and diving into that learning something new, being able to

615
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:10,280
Speaker 3: like just the variety is the wind for me to

616
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 3: keep that now. The one thing I've started this year,

617
00:36:13,079 --> 00:36:16,039
Speaker 3: or actually just before Christmas because I've stopped playing rugby,

618
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 3: is at least moving five k a day. So walking

619
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 3: five k day or running five k a day has

620
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 3: been like, I have to do that because sometimes you

621
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 3: can have. I've just spun off ten of those different

622
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 3: things that we've got that becomes overwhelming when you and

623
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,119
Speaker 3: I don't know what number it is, whether it's twelve

624
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,159
Speaker 3: or fifteen things on my plate, but one of those

625
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,679
Speaker 3: numbers sends me over the edge. And I'm sure you're

626
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 3: the same, right. So being able to go for a

627
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 3: walk somewhere and just out and about somewhere else or

628
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,679
Speaker 3: run it just gives you that level set, that reset.

629
00:36:55,679 --> 00:36:58,599
Speaker 3: But equally, I don't work nine to five. I don't

630
00:36:58,599 --> 00:37:01,079
Speaker 3: think many of us do any more. I think it's

631
00:37:01,119 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 3: a nice like when it's light we work and when

632
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 3: it's dark we sleep. But I don't think that. I

633
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 3: don't think that masses anymore. I think we just get

634
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,079
Speaker 3: stuff done.

635
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 2: I thought, for sure you're gonna say when it's dark

636
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 2: you also work because.

637
00:37:16,679 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 3: It depends on the week right all time zone, for sure?

638
00:37:22,599 --> 00:37:23,039
Speaker 1: For sure.

639
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:24,760
Speaker 4: I mean my numbers too.

640
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,119
Speaker 2: I feel like if I got something critical going on,

641
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 2: something else trying to buy from my attention, I have

642
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 2: to be very careful about pulling that in. I think

643
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 2: I'm in a very unique position though compared to lots

644
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,599
Speaker 2: of people, where I get to push things on other people,

645
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,079
Speaker 2: So I have to be careful about that. But yeah,

646
00:37:41,079 --> 00:37:44,199
Speaker 2: for sure, like things to buy for your attention, it's

647
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,119
Speaker 2: very difficult to even keep track of them all. I

648
00:37:47,119 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 2: was actually talking to Will about this before we started

649
00:37:49,679 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 2: the stream about multitasking is death now, Really, we as

650
00:37:54,079 --> 00:37:57,280
Speaker 2: humans can't really do it that effectively. Your priority list,

651
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,599
Speaker 2: you do one at a time until you're done, but

652
00:38:00,639 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 2: you're never done. There's the next thing on the list.

653
00:38:03,519 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 2: So rigorously prioritizing and pulling out what those things are important.

654
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 2: And I think there's a lot to be said for

655
00:38:09,559 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 2: your subconscious because I'm totally with you. I go on

656
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 2: short little walks to clear my mind, my conscious mind

657
00:38:15,519 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 2: while subconsciously I'm working on some difficult problem that doesn't

658
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 2: require me to write it down or look at visuals

659
00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 2: can be really really helpful, especially when the nature of

660
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,199
Speaker 2: the work we're doing. It's not just write some code

661
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 2: in some ID somewhere, but it's think deeply about a

662
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,519
Speaker 2: problem and how it should look like and what that

663
00:38:32,559 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 2: actually means.

664
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:34,559
Speaker 4: And how to take the next step.

665
00:38:34,599 --> 00:38:37,599
Speaker 2: And so while you say that you don't have anything

666
00:38:37,679 --> 00:38:39,760
Speaker 2: like super original there that you know, you pull the

667
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 2: content from somewhere. I think what is important is how

668
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,760
Speaker 2: you think about the problem, which I do think may

669
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,119
Speaker 2: be unique to you know, everyone involved.

670
00:38:48,159 --> 00:38:50,320
Speaker 4: And I think that's important and worth remembering.

671
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:58,119
Speaker 1: So back to doing a five k every day, I'm

672
00:38:58,159 --> 00:39:02,599
Speaker 1: going to dig on this. Do you listen to music when.

673
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:02,760
Speaker 2: You do that?

674
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 1: Or podcast or.

675
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 3: Running? I'm running, I will listen to music if I'm

676
00:39:11,119 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 3: if i'm walking, it depends depends on where I'm walking.

677
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 3: If I'm walking on a treadmill, in the in the

678
00:39:17,559 --> 00:39:20,280
Speaker 3: in the gym, or in the in the living room,

679
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 3: I will. That's that's YouTube time. But it's it's not.

680
00:39:25,639 --> 00:39:30,519
Speaker 3: It's not DevOps or tech YouTube time. That's although Jeff

681
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 3: Jeff Gilling seems to the sneak in there because he

682
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 3: does some some good good home lab stuff that I

683
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 3: tend to watch, and yeah, maybe a podcast or two.

684
00:39:43,079 --> 00:39:45,559
Speaker 3: But I spend a lot of time in a car

685
00:39:45,639 --> 00:39:48,599
Speaker 3: as well, driving to the airport. I'm about ninety minutes

686
00:39:48,599 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 3: away from the From the airport, it's a great time

687
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 3: to listen to some really good podcasts.

688
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 1: Right, how You've been with with them for nine years,

689
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 1: which I feel like it's pretty unusual in our industry

690
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:07,119
Speaker 1: to be with the same company that long. What's the

691
00:40:07,159 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 1: reason behind that?

692
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:12,039
Speaker 3: So I feel like I've had three, maybe four different

693
00:40:12,119 --> 00:40:14,280
Speaker 3: jobs since I've been at Beam. So I started as

694
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,280
Speaker 3: an se SO systems engineer. I'll go out and keep

695
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:23,199
Speaker 3: our salespeople honest and so show prospect what we do,

696
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,280
Speaker 3: how do we protect this, what do we do? How

697
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 3: do we do it? I was only doing it for

698
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 3: eighteen months, But in that eighteen months, I was still

699
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:37,039
Speaker 3: creating content and I was still almost telling stories. Right

700
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 3: the whole point, I would say, if you had to

701
00:40:39,519 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 3: define what my job is, it's about telling stories. It's

702
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 3: about telling Beam stories that I hear out in the

703
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:49,639
Speaker 3: field where much smarter people than me suffer, so that

704
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:51,639
Speaker 3: they have a story to tell, and then they tell

705
00:40:51,639 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 3: me the story and I simplify that, put it into

706
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:58,119
Speaker 3: a demo some sort of story. After eighteen months, I

707
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,119
Speaker 3: moved into what we call now the Product Stratety Group

708
00:41:01,199 --> 00:41:04,519
Speaker 3: or the office of the CTO, and this was full

709
00:41:04,559 --> 00:41:09,199
Speaker 3: blown go anywhere, make noise, raise awareness, speak to engineering,

710
00:41:10,159 --> 00:41:12,280
Speaker 3: build the product the way it needs to be for

711
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,280
Speaker 3: the field, go and speak to customers. Blah blah blah. Right,

712
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,199
Speaker 3: be part of the community we have. We have a

713
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 3: great community around ving being just works. You've heard that

714
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 3: tagline hopefully and yeah, we have some absolute fanboys who

715
00:41:29,079 --> 00:41:33,079
Speaker 3: who love love being technologies, which is brilliant. So be

716
00:41:33,199 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 3: present there, listen to them. What's their feedback is great

717
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 3: as well, and then feed that back into engineering or

718
00:41:39,039 --> 00:41:46,599
Speaker 3: product management. Then so yeah, that's that's the two jobs.

719
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:53,119
Speaker 3: Then in the same group I was I was, we

720
00:41:53,159 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 3: made an acquisition of a company called Caston. Caston is

721
00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 3: focused on communities backup, so PVC is running applications data

722
00:42:01,679 --> 00:42:05,519
Speaker 3: databases inside of communities or even outside. If you using

723
00:42:05,599 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 3: URDS alongside of your application, we're protecting that. We made

724
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:13,159
Speaker 3: that purchase in October twenty twenty, the parachute got put

725
00:42:13,199 --> 00:42:15,599
Speaker 3: on my back to go, go and make noise, go

726
00:42:15,639 --> 00:42:19,159
Speaker 3: and go and be in that community about everything, all

727
00:42:19,199 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 3: things communities like whoa, I've not even got I don't

728
00:42:24,119 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 3: I've never done containerization yet, So I mean this is

729
00:42:28,079 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 3: and this is the real start of the journey. You'll

730
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 3: see where the devop scene comes in as well as

731
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 3: we go through it. But yeah, parachute comes in, I

732
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,199
Speaker 3: go in. I'm still very wet behind the ears. I

733
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 3: still am today, I feel. And that was my job

734
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,039
Speaker 3: is be all things focused on cloud Native. And I

735
00:42:48,159 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 3: ended up running some collocated events at Cubicon called Cloud

736
00:42:55,559 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 3: Native Data Management Day and we had some really good

737
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 3: speakers talking about databases on Kubnetes, databases outside of communities,

738
00:43:03,039 --> 00:43:08,639
Speaker 3: just data in general around that then probably, well it

739
00:43:08,679 --> 00:43:11,119
Speaker 3: must be two and a bit years ago. I got

740
00:43:11,559 --> 00:43:14,519
Speaker 3: handed some more stuff to look after and talk about.

741
00:43:14,559 --> 00:43:18,079
Speaker 3: And it kind of fit because speaking to all of

742
00:43:18,159 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 3: these kubunettes admins or even developers that were using communities,

743
00:43:24,079 --> 00:43:32,119
Speaker 3: the the trend was they were never exclusively using just cubunettes.

744
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,599
Speaker 3: They were using virtual machines with databases on. Because the

745
00:43:35,679 --> 00:43:39,519
Speaker 3: database is too hard to containerize, it was too important

746
00:43:39,519 --> 00:43:45,159
Speaker 3: for everything else. Because traditionally we took that expensive Oracle

747
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,679
Speaker 3: database and we threw everything on. We threw everything into that.

748
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 3: In the cloud native world, we don't need to do that,

749
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,559
Speaker 3: but that doesn't stop the plane still having to fly right.

750
00:43:58,559 --> 00:44:01,599
Speaker 3: So anyway, so I got given the remit of now

751
00:44:01,639 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 3: go and look after our cloud products are being back

752
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 3: up for a ws as you'r and Google and come

753
00:44:09,039 --> 00:44:12,800
Speaker 3: up with stories to tell around that. So I did,

754
00:44:13,039 --> 00:44:16,119
Speaker 3: and then fast forward is now we're looking at how

755
00:44:16,199 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 3: what is Beam's cloud strategy whilst also still trying to

756
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 3: raise awareness drive adoption of everything that we're doing. So

757
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 3: that's really so I think why nine years or how

758
00:44:29,519 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 3: It's because I've had three to four different jobs within

759
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,559
Speaker 3: it within the company. To be fair, I've only reported

760
00:44:35,559 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 3: into three different people as well, all in the same

761
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:49,599
Speaker 3: structure as well. But yeah, yeah, it's it's strange as well.

762
00:44:49,679 --> 00:44:51,679
Speaker 3: When I was at when I was in my English

763
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 3: class at school, and I'm sure you guys are the

764
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,280
Speaker 3: same in the in the States. You stood up and

765
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:00,280
Speaker 3: you read read like a chapter of the book or

766
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 3: a couple of pages of the book out loud to

767
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:06,119
Speaker 3: the rest of your class. I was so scared I

768
00:45:06,119 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 3: would almost have sick days because of that. And now

769
00:45:09,599 --> 00:45:12,079
Speaker 3: I get to speak to you guys, or speak in

770
00:45:12,119 --> 00:45:16,280
Speaker 3: front of audiences at events. It's a funny, this imposter

771
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,639
Speaker 3: syndrome is such a funny, funny situation.

772
00:45:20,599 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 4: No, I can totally get that.

773
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 2: As long as your career is changing in some way,

774
00:45:25,199 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 2: migrating from one area to another one and having those

775
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 2: different jobs even over a long tenure, the brand of

776
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,039
Speaker 2: the company that you're working for is sort of less

777
00:45:35,079 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 2: relevant in a.

778
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:40,159
Speaker 4: Way because your role is growing with you and me

779
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 4: be on that.

780
00:45:41,159 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 2: I may ask in the context of the ninety days

781
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,679
Speaker 2: of devlops, has there been like some particular area that

782
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,800
Speaker 2: you really enjoyed learning more than others that maybe comes

783
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,079
Speaker 2: out more or as you know, more fleshed out, like

784
00:45:54,119 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 2: you you see people gravitating towards more than some of

785
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,639
Speaker 2: the other areas, or you know, was particularly thing for you.

786
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:06,320
Speaker 3: So so for me personally, it was around databases, learning

787
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 3: more about databases because I was in the traditional shop

788
00:46:10,039 --> 00:46:14,519
Speaker 3: where Microsoft, Sequel, Oracle, and maybe we started to see

789
00:46:14,519 --> 00:46:17,599
Speaker 3: a bit of Mango, but they were the three. They

790
00:46:17,599 --> 00:46:20,679
Speaker 3: were the three de facto databases. Maybe some of my

791
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,760
Speaker 3: squel postgress, but now if you look at the cloud

792
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 3: native ecosystem and the amount of databases that we have

793
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:30,119
Speaker 3: available to us. It's incredible, like you can really pick

794
00:46:30,159 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 3: and choose the right tool for the right job. And

795
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 3: I feel like that that could be the next space

796
00:46:37,159 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 3: for like some huge, big hitter that that really changes

797
00:46:43,599 --> 00:46:46,639
Speaker 3: what we do with data. And I've always been like

798
00:46:46,679 --> 00:46:50,119
Speaker 3: a massive fan around like data visualization and being able

799
00:46:50,119 --> 00:46:55,760
Speaker 3: to use data for for something good. So we're obviously

800
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 3: backing up a lot of stuff. I would a lot

801
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 3: have worked on prototypes where and take that data from

802
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 3: our backup and glean some insight out of that. So

803
00:47:06,199 --> 00:47:09,639
Speaker 3: that those were the two big areas in I guess

804
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:14,079
Speaker 3: they span twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three, two

805
00:47:14,079 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 3: different topics that I think I probably could do a

806
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 3: few more days on on there because I was learning

807
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 3: a lot more about what is aws, neptune and just

808
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,079
Speaker 3: things that you like. I've personally never spoke to a

809
00:47:28,079 --> 00:47:31,119
Speaker 3: customer that uses that and needs to protect it, so

810
00:47:31,159 --> 00:47:36,119
Speaker 3: it's good. It's better that it's not glazed by oh,

811
00:47:36,199 --> 00:47:38,320
Speaker 3: this is a customer meeting, you have to talk about this.

812
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 3: It's actually my interest on data. Yeah, I don't know,

813
00:47:45,039 --> 00:47:48,119
Speaker 3: like I think go lang and if I had a

814
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 3: chance to change if I could go back and change it,

815
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:55,079
Speaker 3: knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have started talking

816
00:47:55,119 --> 00:47:58,599
Speaker 3: about a programming language upfront, like we started talking about

817
00:47:58,639 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 3: it here because it's the first module. I would have

818
00:48:02,119 --> 00:48:07,199
Speaker 3: moved that because I feel like that is a barrier

819
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,199
Speaker 3: to entry, to think that someone, Oh, I'm gonna learn

820
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 3: DevOps today. They come in, they've never learned a programming language. Oh,

821
00:48:14,039 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 3: we've got to go and learn go Lang or Python

822
00:48:16,559 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 3: or something. And you're like, maybe maybe that was just

823
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 3: a little like, maybe I should have moved that down.

824
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,079
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe we should have started with the Linux module,

825
00:48:25,119 --> 00:48:28,679
Speaker 3: which was second, and then the networking, and then we

826
00:48:28,679 --> 00:48:32,039
Speaker 3: should have got onto a like containerization, and then I

827
00:48:32,079 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 3: feel like there's a better, a better flow that I

828
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 3: would have used. But the programming language. Do I really

829
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,280
Speaker 3: need to learn a programming language to be in DevOps? Well, actually,

830
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 3: yeah no, you could probably get away with not until

831
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 3: way down the line. You can you write a bass script?

832
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,119
Speaker 3: Are we classing that as a programming language? Probably not?

833
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,079
Speaker 3: But it gets it gets a job done, and it

834
00:48:56,079 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 3: it might just be enough if you If you can't

835
00:48:58,039 --> 00:49:01,559
Speaker 3: write a basscript, though, then probably don't bother learning Golang.

836
00:49:01,639 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 3: Yet that's that's kind of yeah, So that would be

837
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,159
Speaker 3: that if I had any regrets, that would be that

838
00:49:10,199 --> 00:49:11,159
Speaker 3: would be one to move.

839
00:49:11,599 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 4: It's interesting you bring that up.

840
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 2: Actually, I feel like it's easier to learn a programming

841
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 2: language than it is to try to write a bash

842
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:18,639
Speaker 2: script correctly.

843
00:49:19,159 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 4: And I think there is something to.

844
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:25,199
Speaker 2: Be said about the complexity of understanding what you're deploying

845
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 2: or what you're running or what you're evaluating is can

846
00:49:28,039 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 2: be quite complex, and I get the sense that learning

847
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 2: a programming language is something that has well more complex

848
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 2: to work with, has a much smaller impact, Like I

849
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:40,159
Speaker 2: can write a small little app on my machine and

850
00:49:40,159 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 2: not have to think about what the data layer is

851
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 2: going to be like, or what of the thousands of

852
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,280
Speaker 2: different kinds of databases out there providers you know which

853
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 2: one to pick or even which cloud you go do,

854
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,599
Speaker 2: or how to deploy things, or you know, credit cards

855
00:49:52,679 --> 00:49:55,599
Speaker 2: being involved and money to actually pay for those resources.

856
00:49:55,679 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 2: Where I feel like all of that does come in

857
00:49:57,639 --> 00:50:01,199
Speaker 2: to when you're working more in a DEUBL space, and

858
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:04,119
Speaker 2: so I can totally see the well, if you don't program,

859
00:50:04,639 --> 00:50:06,760
Speaker 2: here may be is an easy way to get into it,

860
00:50:07,079 --> 00:50:09,320
Speaker 2: rather than you know, immediately start trying to think about.

861
00:50:09,079 --> 00:50:12,039
Speaker 4: What you're doing, because I think there is this hesitation or.

862
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,119
Speaker 2: Even maybe a crutch in the world where it's like,

863
00:50:15,159 --> 00:50:18,199
Speaker 2: I want to go learn something infrastructure, What should I do?

864
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:19,840
Speaker 2: You know, what should I go? I was like, well,

865
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 2: what's your business problem? You know, what are you actually

866
00:50:21,519 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 2: trying to do? And then there's this disconnective Well, I

867
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,559
Speaker 2: don't know. I just want to learn how databases fit together.

868
00:50:26,559 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, it's a good start if you have

869
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:31,199
Speaker 2: a need, you know, like I want to build a

870
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 2: recommendation engine or a website or something like that. And

871
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:36,280
Speaker 2: then I feel like you're sort of stuck if you

872
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 2: don't have at least willing to go and take the

873
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 2: step forward of building something out.

874
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, you just made me think about So

875
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:49,320
Speaker 3: I have a lot of ideas. I'm sure you guys

876
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 3: do as well, about little project, little project ideas, and

877
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 3: I know this goes out to fair few people as well. Well.

878
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 3: I'll be interested in what people think about source code,

879
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 3: repository back up. Completely changing the direction, but think about gethub,

880
00:51:07,039 --> 00:51:10,280
Speaker 3: think about get lab. How do we protect that and

881
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,199
Speaker 3: is it is it important just to go on the

882
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 3: business outcomes I had that conversation this morning. I thought,

883
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 3: I know two people that will that will have an

884
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,280
Speaker 3: answer or I have an idea or a theory on that.

885
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,599
Speaker 2: Well, well will want you to just you know, your

886
00:51:24,639 --> 00:51:26,639
Speaker 2: code is backed up directly in production because that's where

887
00:51:26,639 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 2: you're edited it right.

888
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:33,679
Speaker 1: Right right CICD means VIILM on the production server, and it's.

889
00:51:33,519 --> 00:51:35,760
Speaker 2: Already replicated to multiple machines, right because you need to

890
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:37,800
Speaker 2: scale up, so you have you know, all your code

891
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 2: automatically replicated to you know, tens, maybe hundreds, thousands of

892
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:44,039
Speaker 2: machines already.

893
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 1: No, but that's that's actually a problem I've never thought of,

894
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,679
Speaker 1: you know, with get lab, for sure, because when I

895
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:55,679
Speaker 1: think of get lab, I think of running your own

896
00:51:56,119 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: get lab servers on your own infrastructure. So there is

897
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 1: a definite need there for GitHub. Though I'm paying for

898
00:52:05,679 --> 00:52:09,760
Speaker 1: the service, I'm assuming and maybe that's my fault. I'm

899
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:11,639
Speaker 1: assuming that they're backing it up.

900
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:16,760
Speaker 2: You, I mean, realistically, you are paying for that. Then

901
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,320
Speaker 2: there's the second question of whether or not it's happening.

902
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,840
Speaker 2: And I think we know of recent like just recent

903
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:27,079
Speaker 2: incidents involving some companies who we thought would have had a.

904
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:29,320
Speaker 4: Better strategy to avoid a.

905
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:34,159
Speaker 2: Full incident related to individual customers losing all of their data.

906
00:52:34,519 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 2: So I mean, realistically, it's something you could be concerned with,

907
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:42,519
Speaker 2: I think understanding the business continuity strategy that your company

908
00:52:42,599 --> 00:52:45,760
Speaker 2: has or needs to have, and what the risk is

909
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 2: and what the impact is of that. For instance, if

910
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:52,039
Speaker 2: you have lots of engineers who are working across multiple repositories,

911
00:52:52,119 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 2: you have well defined teams with a well defined remit.

912
00:52:55,559 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 2: I bet you've got the source code cloned end times already.

913
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 4: It's unlike you actually do need something stronger than that.

914
00:53:03,599 --> 00:53:06,760
Speaker 2: However, you're going to try to get fed ramp certification

915
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:11,079
Speaker 2: or ISO twenty seven KO one, you may actually need

916
00:53:11,119 --> 00:53:12,800
Speaker 2: to do something else. And so I have seen people

917
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 2: run if they're using GitHub or get lab managed, they'll

918
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 2: run like get tea or something else, or another get

919
00:53:18,519 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 2: provider and run some sort of script to back that up.

920
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 2: Because while it's actually I think a really easy thing

921
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 2: to do to actually achieve backing it up, the thing

922
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:30,280
Speaker 2: that another provider gets you is sort of the insurance.

923
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:32,519
Speaker 2: You want to be able to say, hey, while we

924
00:53:32,599 --> 00:53:35,159
Speaker 2: can do it, we don't want to because you want

925
00:53:35,199 --> 00:53:38,039
Speaker 2: to be able to have someone pay you or compensate

926
00:53:38,079 --> 00:53:40,639
Speaker 2: you when it does go wrong. And if you're in

927
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 2: charge of your own backup strategy, then you're almost you know,

928
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:47,159
Speaker 2: putting more of the eggs in that same basket, and

929
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:49,199
Speaker 2: so you really want to be careful there if you

930
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 2: do decide to take ownership of it.

931
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:53,840
Speaker 1: So I feel like there's a story here, Michael, Like

932
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:55,239
Speaker 1: that didn't just come out of nowhere.

933
00:53:56,079 --> 00:53:59,280
Speaker 3: So I write a blog post so I'll get asked

934
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:03,320
Speaker 3: about it the time, literally more than any other feature request.

935
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,119
Speaker 3: And we as a company have never never gone down

936
00:54:06,119 --> 00:54:09,840
Speaker 3: that road because and I think to your point, Will

937
00:54:10,119 --> 00:54:13,159
Speaker 3: like it's a SaaS and I'm talking about get up here.

938
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 3: But we all trust Microsoft, don't we Microsoft don't get

939
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:19,280
Speaker 3: herb We all trust them. Yeah, they have data.

940
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 1: I'm counting on the on.

941
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,199
Speaker 3: Yeah. And if they turn around and charge you on

942
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:26,320
Speaker 3: a per repo basis, we're going to get rid of

943
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:29,800
Speaker 3: a load of homegrown projects pretty damn quick because that

944
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:35,119
Speaker 3: just like I wrote a blog post where basically I'm

945
00:54:35,199 --> 00:54:39,280
Speaker 3: using I'm using Canister. Canister is an open source project

946
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:45,199
Speaker 3: that we maintain that is more of an application freight

947
00:54:45,599 --> 00:54:50,360
Speaker 3: application specific framework. And you can push this blueprint to

948
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:54,199
Speaker 3: go and put a lot basically interact with any API.

949
00:54:56,119 --> 00:55:00,320
Speaker 3: And there's a great open source project out there, gick

950
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 3: up gick up, and I use that basically to go

951
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:08,800
Speaker 3: and protect it and send it to S three just

952
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 3: to say, look, we can do it, but if you

953
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 3: want to do it, do it this way. Are other possible.

954
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 3: But even then you're going to get hub and you

955
00:55:17,039 --> 00:55:19,039
Speaker 3: go to the marketplace or the app store or whatever

956
00:55:19,079 --> 00:55:22,519
Speaker 3: it's called. I think there's either fifty seven or one

957
00:55:22,599 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty seven back up tools natively in their marketplace.

958
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:31,159
Speaker 3: So to your point, Warren, there's definitely a use case,

959
00:55:31,559 --> 00:55:33,880
Speaker 3: but people just want to offload it to someone else,

960
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 3: like can you just can you just look after that?

961
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:41,199
Speaker 3: But that was really the only I realized I was

962
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 3: talking a lot and needed to need to switch gears

963
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:46,559
Speaker 3: and change it into something else. So I wanted to

964
00:55:46,599 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 3: get your guys view on that as a topic.

965
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 1: You can't do that. We're here to grill you, not

966
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:53,679
Speaker 1: the other way around.

967
00:55:57,599 --> 00:56:01,639
Speaker 3: Now, think about what other services, what other sad because

968
00:56:02,119 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 3: you'd be you'd be wrong in thinking that get hub

969
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:09,199
Speaker 3: back up your data. It's a shared responsibility model. So

970
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:11,719
Speaker 3: the data and the information that you've put in there

971
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:15,840
Speaker 3: is your responsibility. They'll keep the service up and run

972
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:22,320
Speaker 3: in for even free free tier users, but they're not

973
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 3: going to back up your data. The data is your

974
00:56:25,519 --> 00:56:26,280
Speaker 3: response toility.

975
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 2: I mean, I think we have to sort of dive

976
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:31,559
Speaker 2: into what we mean by backup, so you know, we're

977
00:56:31,599 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 2: talking about what is the reliable the durability of the

978
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:37,119
Speaker 2: of the repositories we give to get hub. I mean,

979
00:56:37,639 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 2: I think everyone would believe that that it's as durable

980
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 2: as possible, which is different from if you accidentally believe

981
00:56:44,519 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 2: the data from there, whether or not. Like if you

982
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:51,679
Speaker 2: accidentally go into lead a repository, what's your remediation strategy there?

983
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:53,519
Speaker 4: So you know, if that's the risk, then for sure

984
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:54,719
Speaker 4: you need something else.

985
00:56:55,119 --> 00:56:58,119
Speaker 2: If get hub does go down in some way permanently,

986
00:56:58,159 --> 00:57:01,280
Speaker 2: you know, zero zero, zero one percent or whatever, you know, what's.

987
00:57:01,039 --> 00:57:02,679
Speaker 4: Your business continuity strategy.

988
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:06,280
Speaker 2: But like if if someone came to me today and said, hey,

989
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 2: you know, your data could get.

990
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,199
Speaker 4: Accidentally deleted from GitHub or get lab.

991
00:57:11,119 --> 00:57:13,559
Speaker 2: Or whatever the provider you're using, and they're not going

992
00:57:13,599 --> 00:57:16,239
Speaker 2: to do anything, like they have no strategy to do

993
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:18,760
Speaker 2: with that. That data isn't replicated across at least two

994
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 2: physical drives somewhere. You know, I think they're going to

995
00:57:22,519 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 2: lose a lot of customers, you know, just listening to

996
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:26,119
Speaker 2: this podcast.

997
00:57:26,239 --> 00:57:28,199
Speaker 3: One hundred per right, and they're going to keep that

998
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 3: infrastructure up and running. And the accident of deletion is

999
00:57:33,119 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 3: kind of hard, Like you've all deleted it, we've all

1000
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 3: deleted a repo on there, like you have to go

1001
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,519
Speaker 3: through some boots to make that happen. But what about

1002
00:57:41,519 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 3: this is a sonar like, so hopefully all three of

1003
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 3: us have MFA on our GitHub account as access, but

1004
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,719
Speaker 3: it's a SAS service, right, so anyone could get if

1005
00:57:52,039 --> 00:57:55,719
Speaker 3: someone bad or malicious gained access, or a malicious internal

1006
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:59,239
Speaker 3: user had access to a repo and they decided to

1007
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,239
Speaker 3: delete or not even delete. Let's look at the open

1008
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 3: source issue that happened, is it x Y a couple

1009
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 3: of months ago, the Impression library? Sorry, yes, and and

1010
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 3: that that's not the same scenario. But you you let

1011
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 3: people in in to maintain, they can make changes, blah

1012
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:23,559
Speaker 3: blah blah. Someone makes a change that's malicious to the

1013
00:58:23,639 --> 00:58:29,599
Speaker 3: code or potentially many different malicious activities within that. Do

1014
00:58:29,639 --> 00:58:32,079
Speaker 3: you want to go back to all of your developers

1015
00:58:32,159 --> 00:58:37,119
Speaker 3: laptops and hope that get clones of happened and or

1016
00:58:37,159 --> 00:58:39,519
Speaker 3: do you want a point in time restored? I think

1017
00:58:39,599 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 3: I think we're all onto something. But I think I

1018
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:47,679
Speaker 3: think I think I think it's an interesting topic. That's

1019
00:58:47,679 --> 00:58:48,079
Speaker 3: where I was.

1020
00:58:48,159 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, I think it's one of those things

1021
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:54,920
Speaker 2: that's a long poul Like it's a very long tail responsibility,

1022
00:58:55,039 --> 00:58:57,639
Speaker 2: Like there are tons of companies not even thinking about that,

1023
00:58:57,880 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 2: and then there are but there are things that they

1024
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:02,599
Speaker 2: should be doing first, like they still have passwords as

1025
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 2: the requirement for authentication for their UIs for their users,

1026
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 2: and so like, please do something about that first before

1027
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:11,599
Speaker 2: you even start to think about you know, source code

1028
00:59:11,639 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 2: backup or you know, you mentioned MFA, like companies that

1029
00:59:15,039 --> 00:59:17,559
Speaker 2: don't you know, have passwords but no MFA. Right, It's

1030
00:59:17,559 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 2: like passwords are like eighties, Like if you have passwords

1031
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:23,119
Speaker 2: as any sort of authentication, like eighty six percent chance

1032
00:59:23,199 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 2: it will get popped in the next two years. It's

1033
00:59:25,559 --> 00:59:28,239
Speaker 2: it's like ridiculous. And yet they're, you know, they're thinking

1034
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 2: about these long teraim things. Oh well, what if one

1035
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 2: of our developers like exposes their source code or takes

1036
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 2: it with them.

1037
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:35,480
Speaker 4: I'm like that is not the biggest risk.

1038
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, the CEO right in his or her password on

1039
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:45,199
Speaker 3: the post it note in their office, is that that's

1040
00:59:45,239 --> 00:59:46,119
Speaker 3: the biggest risk.

1041
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:49,239
Speaker 1: But they have to show that their assistant has access

1042
00:59:49,239 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 1: to the password when they don't make it into the office.

1043
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:56,199
Speaker 3: And the calendar. Obviously they need to be able to

1044
00:59:56,239 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 3: get into their Zoom account.

1045
00:59:58,079 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 2: Right absolutely, Yeah, I'm if we're going to go down

1046
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:02,760
Speaker 2: the rest page right now, I think it's the deep

1047
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 2: fakes being sent to your finance or accounting department on

1048
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 2: behalf of the executive team saying that they should pay

1049
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 2: out an invoice to a third party company, and they

1050
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:14,079
Speaker 2: go and do that, and so I think, you know,

1051
01:00:14,119 --> 01:00:16,679
Speaker 2: that's that's the biggest risk to a company right now,

1052
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 2: is a direct attacks on their their wallet more so

1053
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 2: than anything else.

1054
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 3: That was so that made that reminded me of another

1055
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:32,519
Speaker 3: massive knee jerk change of direction on I watched a

1056
01:00:32,599 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 3: YouTube video of Ryan Goslin explaining the one oh one

1057
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:40,440
Speaker 3: of l l M's It wasn't It wasn't And he's

1058
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 3: got a ridiculously huge left arm, but yeah, it like

1059
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 3: he's nailed it. He's really good at explaining because someone

1060
01:00:50,719 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 3: someone has put that data in there, but a huge

1061
01:00:53,039 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 3: deep fake. Yeah, that is the biggest, a bigger risk.

1062
01:00:58,519 --> 01:01:03,199
Speaker 3: So yeah, fully just to get away from structured open

1063
01:01:03,239 --> 01:01:06,519
Speaker 3: source learning as far as possible, source code, repository back

1064
01:01:06,599 --> 01:01:08,599
Speaker 3: up and deep fake.

1065
01:01:08,719 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 4: Ryan Goslin's well, I mean I think it's super relevant, right.

1066
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:14,559
Speaker 2: You have such a good source of knowledge here that

1067
01:01:15,039 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 2: would be a shame to lose in some way. And

1068
01:01:17,559 --> 01:01:19,599
Speaker 2: I think, you know, even Getthub has this idea of

1069
01:01:19,599 --> 01:01:22,800
Speaker 2: the Arctic code backup program where they're locking it in

1070
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 2: some vault hypothetically. I don't know what that actually amounts to,

1071
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 2: so I can imagine you know, I didn't I didn't check.

1072
01:01:29,039 --> 01:01:31,159
Speaker 2: But maybe you've got an award here associated with this

1073
01:01:31,599 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 2: that says it's being saved somewhere important.

1074
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 4: I don't know what they did with their awards.

1075
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:39,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got a badge for contributing to the Arctic

1076
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:42,760
Speaker 1: Vault program, although I have no idea what that program

1077
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 1: is or what I did to contribute to it.

1078
01:01:44,679 --> 01:01:46,719
Speaker 2: You shoud actually should actually tell you, like mine was

1079
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 2: like contributing to some AWS source code and some things

1080
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 2: that were used on like one of the NASSA rovers.

1081
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:54,679
Speaker 1: I just saw a bunch of colorful badges there one

1082
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:57,039
Speaker 1: day and Howard out them for them and then moved

1083
01:01:57,079 --> 01:02:03,519
Speaker 1: on with my life. You know, like in the I

1084
01:02:03,519 --> 01:02:06,039
Speaker 1: try not to get involved in side quests.

1085
01:02:06,679 --> 01:02:08,719
Speaker 4: How do you know what the main quest does?

1086
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 1: So funny story, because at the end of every day,

1087
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 1: the last thing I do at night is I write

1088
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:20,039
Speaker 1: down the five things that I'm want to be focused

1089
01:02:20,079 --> 01:02:23,159
Speaker 1: on for the next day, and anything that's not one

1090
01:02:23,159 --> 01:02:30,280
Speaker 1: of those five I just ignore a barring, you know, like, hey,

1091
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 1: we've got a production outage. You know, I can't really

1092
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 1: go up. Sorry didn't schedule that. I'll see if I

1093
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:36,800
Speaker 1: can get it on tap for tomorrow.

1094
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 3: But I use that.

1095
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 1: I've used that method four years and it's been the

1096
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:44,719
Speaker 1: only way for me to stay focused and on track.

1097
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:46,719
Speaker 4: I think that's a really great idea.

1098
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:52,960
Speaker 1: Actually, I've tried the every electronic version of it I

1099
01:02:53,039 --> 01:02:57,559
Speaker 1: can find. I've even tried like just doing it in notebooks.

1100
01:02:57,559 --> 01:03:00,119
Speaker 1: But for me personally, the only thing that works is

1101
01:03:00,119 --> 01:03:03,039
Speaker 1: is the three by five card, and then it's just

1102
01:03:03,199 --> 01:03:05,039
Speaker 1: either on my desk or when I leave my desk,

1103
01:03:05,079 --> 01:03:06,719
Speaker 1: I put it in my pocket, so no matter where

1104
01:03:06,719 --> 01:03:09,199
Speaker 1: I'm at, I know what I'm supposed to be focused on.

1105
01:03:10,119 --> 01:03:13,119
Speaker 2: That's the legacy units for anyone who doesn't know. He's

1106
01:03:13,119 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 2: saying inches, which not centimeters.

1107
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:22,039
Speaker 1: That's three centimeters by five centimeters.

1108
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:22,920
Speaker 3: Pretty small.

1109
01:03:23,679 --> 01:03:26,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, it keeps me from taking on too.

1110
01:03:26,039 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 3: Much each day.

1111
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 1: By limiting the writing space, my day has gotten so

1112
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 1: much better.

1113
01:03:34,519 --> 01:03:37,440
Speaker 2: There's something that goes you know, when you're actually physically

1114
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:40,679
Speaker 2: writing it out. I do find that has an imprint

1115
01:03:40,719 --> 01:03:43,000
Speaker 2: in you more than say typing it into it. So

1116
01:03:43,039 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 2: like when I'm in my meetings, I tend to have

1117
01:03:45,039 --> 01:03:46,400
Speaker 2: a notebook and I write things down.

1118
01:03:47,199 --> 01:03:48,519
Speaker 4: Actually it's not like saved.

1119
01:03:48,559 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 2: I usually write on a piece of scrapaper and then

1120
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:53,960
Speaker 2: throw it away after the meeting. And it does wonders

1121
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:57,639
Speaker 2: for me realistically to remember what I've gone or what

1122
01:03:57,679 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 2: I've discussed with really has nothing.

1123
01:03:59,119 --> 01:04:01,599
Speaker 4: To do with medium which I've chosen.

1124
01:04:02,719 --> 01:04:08,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed, physical, physically writing something is increases my retention

1125
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:15,440
Speaker 1: and comprehension immensely. What about you, Michael, you're digital or analog, so.

1126
01:04:15,599 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 3: A bit of both. You can probably see there's pa

1127
01:04:21,119 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 3: paper all here. Yeah, so bitter boat. But because I'm

1128
01:04:26,559 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 3: constantly it seems, but at least recently on an aeroplane, there's

1129
01:04:31,039 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 3: a lot of notes and a lot of draft emails

1130
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:37,079
Speaker 3: actually that I seem to use. I use email for

1131
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 3: that that I do actually communicate.

1132
01:04:39,519 --> 01:04:41,960
Speaker 4: Definitely got the emails of my outbox for sure.

1133
01:04:42,599 --> 01:04:46,719
Speaker 2: When I'm traveling, there's there's no ultimate unfortunately excellent.

1134
01:04:47,239 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 1: Well should we move on do some pics? All right,

1135
01:04:52,159 --> 01:04:53,519
Speaker 1: let's do it. What'd you bring? Warren?

1136
01:04:54,159 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm on my book rants. So this week

1137
01:04:59,119 --> 01:05:00,960
Speaker 2: is going to be management three point zero.

1138
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:01,719
Speaker 4: By you're gonna pillow.

1139
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:05,039
Speaker 2: I found that very early on in my career. It

1140
01:05:05,119 --> 01:05:08,599
Speaker 2: was a great way to think about as an aspiring leader,

1141
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:11,920
Speaker 2: to how to build the work around a team and

1142
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:15,719
Speaker 2: even move to an agile perspective. There are still companies

1143
01:05:15,719 --> 01:05:17,679
Speaker 2: out there that aren't doing agile, and whether it's.

1144
01:05:17,559 --> 01:05:20,519
Speaker 4: Not totally married to that aspect, it really does.

1145
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:23,360
Speaker 2: Help you think through what to do in certain situations,

1146
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:27,159
Speaker 2: how to prioritize work effectively at a team level. And

1147
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:30,039
Speaker 2: I just I can't recommend it enough for those that

1148
01:05:30,079 --> 01:05:32,920
Speaker 2: are thinking about not just the code that they should

1149
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:34,639
Speaker 2: write or what they should work on that day, but

1150
01:05:34,719 --> 01:05:37,519
Speaker 2: how to collaborate effectively, how to track that work and

1151
01:05:38,159 --> 01:05:40,760
Speaker 2: prioritize requests that are coming in from either.

1152
01:05:40,599 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 1: Other teams or from the business speaking of collaborating effectively,

1153
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 1: hearing is such a key part of that, and I

1154
01:05:49,519 --> 01:05:54,519
Speaker 1: have terrible hearing like between just like the background roar

1155
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:58,400
Speaker 1: and tonight is with the really loud ringing. It's really

1156
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:00,239
Speaker 1: hard for me to hear. And I've had my hearing

1157
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:03,119
Speaker 1: tested multiple times and they say, oh, there's nothing that

1158
01:06:03,159 --> 01:06:04,920
Speaker 1: here in ads can do for that. Best of luck

1159
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:09,280
Speaker 1: to you. Okay, thanks, But I did get recently a

1160
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:15,159
Speaker 1: pair of AirPod Pro AirPods Pro two and they've got

1161
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:19,760
Speaker 1: like a background noise reduction feature on them and that's

1162
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 1: actually been super cool. So that's my pick for the

1163
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:25,079
Speaker 1: week because it does a great job of like filtering

1164
01:06:25,079 --> 01:06:28,480
Speaker 1: out that roaring background noise, especially when you're in a big,

1165
01:06:28,519 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 1: open environment, so that you can hear the conversation going

1166
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:36,280
Speaker 1: on around you. The downside to it is that everyone

1167
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:39,199
Speaker 1: sees you have AirPods in, so they assume that you're

1168
01:06:39,239 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 1: listening to the Adventures in DevOps podcast and not really

1169
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 1: interested in talking one on one.

1170
01:06:44,559 --> 01:06:45,159
Speaker 3: So that's the.

1171
01:06:45,119 --> 01:06:48,360
Speaker 1: Trade off there. But that's gonna be my pick of

1172
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:50,239
Speaker 1: the week. Michael, what about you.

1173
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:53,960
Speaker 3: I guess mine goes. I know we spoke about the

1174
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 3: five k's a day, I think, but my background is

1175
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:05,119
Speaker 3: rugby knocking seven bells of stuff out of people on

1176
01:07:05,159 --> 01:07:09,000
Speaker 3: a Saturday after a busy week of weird and wonderful things.

1177
01:07:09,519 --> 01:07:11,599
Speaker 3: Obviously that's gone a way you're getting older. I can't

1178
01:07:11,639 --> 01:07:14,519
Speaker 3: really do that anymore for that five k a day.

1179
01:07:14,719 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 3: Just as Warren kind of put it as well, is

1180
01:07:17,639 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 3: it just takes you out of that that busy, busy mode,

1181
01:07:22,079 --> 01:07:26,440
Speaker 3: and I massively encourage it to any Everyone should be

1182
01:07:26,519 --> 01:07:31,760
Speaker 3: moving anyway for health and fitness, but that brain rest

1183
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:34,800
Speaker 3: as well, Like I get some of the best ideas

1184
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:37,880
Speaker 3: when I'm at least two and a half k away

1185
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:43,719
Speaker 3: from my house. So just that mindfulness of escaping from

1186
01:07:43,719 --> 01:07:47,480
Speaker 3: something that you're potentially stuck on trying to fix takes

1187
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:51,519
Speaker 3: you away from it like that. That seems to be

1188
01:07:51,639 --> 01:07:53,280
Speaker 3: working for me at the moment. I'm up to one

1189
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:58,480
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty odd days of continuous, continuous walking or

1190
01:07:58,519 --> 01:08:02,239
Speaker 3: continuous five k in the spirit of Devils nice.

1191
01:08:03,239 --> 01:08:05,119
Speaker 1: You know. That's why I asked you about listening to

1192
01:08:05,239 --> 01:08:08,360
Speaker 1: podcast or music, because I've had a similar experience when

1193
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:13,800
Speaker 1: I'm out on runs. It's number one meditative, but number

1194
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:20,800
Speaker 1: two just so helpful for sorting the mental clutter and reflection.

1195
01:08:22,159 --> 01:08:24,359
Speaker 1: And I've gotten to the point now where I don't

1196
01:08:24,399 --> 01:08:28,920
Speaker 1: take any I don't listen to anything, no music, no podcast, nothing,

1197
01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:34,439
Speaker 1: just out there, just me and my thoughts. And that's

1198
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:35,640
Speaker 1: been pretty wild.

1199
01:08:37,399 --> 01:08:38,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't laugh more.

1200
01:08:47,079 --> 01:08:50,359
Speaker 1: This is the Homer Simpson quote. All right, brain, I

1201
01:08:50,399 --> 01:08:52,359
Speaker 1: don't like you and you don't like me, but it's

1202
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:54,000
Speaker 1: just the two of us. So we got to get

1203
01:08:54,039 --> 01:08:57,119
Speaker 1: through this, or let's get through this so I can

1204
01:08:57,159 --> 01:09:01,840
Speaker 1: get back to killing you with beer. Yeah, so that's

1205
01:09:02,319 --> 01:09:04,960
Speaker 1: I hear you on that. Like, getting out and moving

1206
01:09:05,279 --> 01:09:09,199
Speaker 1: is just great, not only physically, but it's so helpful

1207
01:09:09,359 --> 01:09:13,079
Speaker 1: mentally as well. And I would I would highly recommend

1208
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:16,680
Speaker 1: at least giving it a shot without anything, you know,

1209
01:09:17,239 --> 01:09:19,279
Speaker 1: just you and your thoughts, because it's going to be

1210
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:25,680
Speaker 1: it's going to be wild. But so there we go. Michael,

1211
01:09:25,840 --> 01:09:28,279
Speaker 1: thank you so much. I really enjoyed having you on

1212
01:09:28,319 --> 01:09:28,640
Speaker 1: the show.

1213
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:30,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having me guys.

1214
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:33,039
Speaker 1: I would love to have you back at any point.

1215
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:36,199
Speaker 1: Just hit us up and let us know, and for sure,

1216
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 1: when we're ready for the I got to figure this

1217
01:09:41,319 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 1: is twenty twenty four, so when we're ready for the

1218
01:09:43,039 --> 01:09:46,720
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five edition of ninety Days of dev Ops.

1219
01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:49,359
Speaker 1: I look forward to having you back.

1220
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:53,039
Speaker 3: Awesome. We'll figure out what it needs to be. I'm

1221
01:09:53,039 --> 01:09:57,840
Speaker 3: sure there'll be some llms and AI associated to it

1222
01:09:57,880 --> 01:09:59,279
Speaker 3: as the trend keeps going.

1223
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:02,479
Speaker 1: Right, just ask chat GPT to create it for you.

1224
01:10:03,359 --> 01:10:06,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, there you go, because there won't be any hallucinations

1225
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:08,920
Speaker 3: in that right.

1226
01:10:11,239 --> 01:10:15,680
Speaker 1: Awesome, Warren, thank you for joining me today of course,

1227
01:10:16,399 --> 01:10:18,800
Speaker 1: and for all of our listeners, thank you for listening,

1228
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:22,640
Speaker 1: and we will see y'all next week