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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Surely You Can't

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Be Serious Podcast.

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Speaker 2: It is twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 1: That means it's been forty five years since the original

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Superman with Christopher Reeve was released, and it also means

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it's been ten years since Man of Steel with Henry

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Cavill was released. We are bringing you today a special

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episode on Superman one and two versus Man of Steel.

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We are joined by our friend mister John Reid from

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the thirty something Movie podcast. We have also another podcast

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with John that deals with Superman called Podcast Full of Kryptonite,

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where we talk about the series Superman and Lois and

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we also jumped into the Josh Wheedton Justice League versus

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the Zach Snyder Justice League, so be sure and go

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and check that podcast out as well. And now here

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is Superman one and two versus Man of Steel.

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Speaker 2: All right, everybody, welcome back. This is the Superman one

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and two the Man of Steels.

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Speaker 3: We've got our guest John Read with us from thirty

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s of the podcast.

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Speaker 2: John, How you doing Man? Good have you?

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Speaker 4: Oh? I'm doing great. I'm just I'm excited to be

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here with you guys, and just I'm agonizing I'm agonizing

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over the decisions that we have to make here. It's

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going to change the course of mighty rivers. It may

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reverse the rotation of the Earth. It may cause people

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to forget that they ever spent the night with Superman.

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I mean whatever, it's I'm just I'm ready. Let's go,

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let's make some decisions.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's it. We got to have John as a

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guest on every singles from now. That's right.

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Speaker 4: It's been a day at work, so the fact that

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I knew that we were going to be able to

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get on and talk some Superman and all day while

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I'm supposed to be doing work stuff, I'm just walking

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around now. But I'm so glad to be with you guys.

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I'm having so much fun listening to your show. I

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cannot wait. Every single time your podcast comes up in

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my feed, I'm like, oh, nope, skip all the other ones.

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You gotta find out is it Van Halen or Van Hagar?

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We got to find out.

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Speaker 2: Well, thanks for being with us, Man.

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Speaker 3: Why don't you tell us a little bit about thirty something?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, So we started about close to five years ago.

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Now we are a bunch of teachers, so we're sitting

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around talking about movies. I think it was twenty fourteen.

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We were talking about we're talking about nineteen eighty four,

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and we're like, Wow, there's so many movies that just

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you know, thirty years ago, so many great movies from

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this year, and we just started rattling them off. We're

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just like, oh, and we're like, just think about from

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eighty four. You had Ghostbusters, you had The Nightmare on

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Elm Street, you had all these gremlins, all these different movies,

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and then we started jumping into eighty five and we're like, oh, man,

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then you got back to the future, you guys. So

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as we were doing all this, I had kind of

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wanting to do a podcast for a long time, back

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before like even a lot of people knew what podcasts were.

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I had listened to some different podcasts and I thought,

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you know what, it sounds like those guys have a

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lot of fun, and I would love to find a

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way to do this someday and do it completely for

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free and somehow eventually get paid for it. So you know,

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one out of three ain't bad. So you know, we

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decided at that point we kind of said, hey, you

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know what, let's let's get together and let's talk about movies.

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That'll be our theme is we're going to talk about

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movies that are thirty years old. And then that way

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we don't have an ending point where like, we can

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keep this going as long as we want to, we'll

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be able to keep going, you know, forever and ever

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and ever. And so we started it up. We made

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some mistakes with our first episode. I know there was

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another podcast at the time where the guys used to

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get together and sit in a restaurant or a diner

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and they would record while they were having their dinner.

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And I thought, it's a cool concept. Let's do that.

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So I hauled all of my equipment to our local

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Mexican restaurant completely not not thinking about the fact that, well,

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wait a minute, they're going to have mariachi music going

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the entire time. We're all going to be munching on chips.

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So that's our infamous lost episode. The one we're willing

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to start with is episode number two. Like I said,

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the premise of our show is whatever year we're in,

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we're going back thirty years. One of the benefits and

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I think you guys see this too, one of benefits.

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I mean, we're we're friends in real life, you know,

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we're not just we're not just podcasting with each other

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because somehow we went we met online somewhere and here

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you go go.

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Speaker 2: Jason was the one that turned me under you guys.

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He's probably been listening to you for two or three

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years now. Yeah, that's right, and I've been listening for

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the last year. So the first episode that I listened

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to though, was your two hundredth episode where you just

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you guys were It sounded like you're all in somebody's

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kitchen together and just having a great time, and I

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was like, this sounds I mean, it sounds awesome. It

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totally hooked me in just all the movies that you

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guys were going through now thirty something Movie podcast.

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Speaker 4: Yeahah, we're on Twitter or Facebook, Instagram, all those different places.

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If you just look for three zero podcast you're probably

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gonna find us on most of those different spots. But yeah,

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that's the easiest way to find us. And thirty Podcasts

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dot Com is our website. You can get to all

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the episodes from there.

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Speaker 2: And I just want to say something about your co

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host real quick. It's almost always Pat and Bow that

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I hear. I know you have other guys who come

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in from time to time. But and I can't remember

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what the movie was that you guys were talking talking about,

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but at some point in the podcast, Pat and Bo

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started talking about Deli sandwiches. Maybe it was when the

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Harry met Sally is what I'm doing? I think it was, Yeah,

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and I was I was salivating. I was just like, oh, pot,

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Pat and Bo need to just do their own let's

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talk about food podcasts, and I will. I'll guest host

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every time. All right, well you're here to join us.

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We're doing today.

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Speaker 3: We're going to compare Superman the movie and Superman two

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kind of as one big conglomerate versus men of steel.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and John did an episode it was just you

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on actually two episodes, and if you want to go

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to thirty Somethings podcast, it's episode one, one and two

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where he talks it was the it was the eightieth

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anniversary of the first Superman. He talks about in detail

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the whole origin story of Superman. And so when we

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first started talking about doing this podcast together, I was like,

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oh crap, I so much research that I've got to

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do because Superman is just this I mean it's volumes

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of history. And then I listened to those two podcasts,

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I was like, well, okay, I don't research anymore. I'm

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just gonna tell people's done. Go back to John's one

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eighty one and one eighty two of the thirty something

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podcast and you can get all of the backstory on Superman.

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And today we're just gonna we're going to focus on

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these three movies.

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Speaker 4: You guys have caused me such turmoil since since you

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sent me a message and you were like, hey, would

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you like to be on an episode of the podcast

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in which we pit these movies against each other? You know,

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Superman one and two versus Man of Steel. And my

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initial reaction, I mean, well, I mean it would have

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been my reaction right now too, but my reaction was

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are you kidding? Yes, I would love to. And then

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when that wore off, I actually started thinking about it.

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I was like, okay, all right, let's do this Superman

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one and two versus Man of Steel. I totally know.

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Oh but wait, there's this, okay, but now there's that

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this one better that? Oh, you guys. So there have

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been several times where over the course of the last

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couple of weeks since we've been messaging back and forth.

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My wife will see me like furiously script ling something

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on a piece of paper, iPad or whatever, and she'd

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be like, all right, so which one is it today?

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And I said, Nope, I'm not sharing. I'm going to

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have to listen to the episode. I'm not sharing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all of our listeners, you can have to hold

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out till the end for final judgment on these once

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we've done our comparison. Hello to John's wife though, Yes,

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thank you, Ford, thank you for letting him hang out

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with us today. It's double duty for the podcasting today.

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Superman the movie came out in nineteen seventy eight and

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December fifteenth, nineteen seventy eight. Yeah, there's a big origin

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story behind it.

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Speaker 3: Let's get in that because that really is interesting.

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Speaker 4: I think.

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Speaker 2: Okay, the Salkans were the producers on this movie, and

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they bought the rights for this movie back in nineteen

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seventy four. Ilia Salkan the son went to Alexander Salkan,

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the father and said, hey, I think this is going

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to be a big hit now. Warner Brothers owned the

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rights to the movie at the time, and they said,

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I guess you can have it. But we're not going

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to give you any money for it, right. So it

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was a negative negative production negative pickup deal. Yeah, so

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they had to fund the movie themselves and then get

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reimbursed once it was finished.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 3: This is the part where we defend the Salcans for

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just a second, for a brief moment, we're going to

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defend the Salcans. They had to front all the money

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for two epically expensive movies being filmed at the.

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Speaker 2: Same time, right. Yeah, of course it was their decision

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to film two movies at the same time, because, as

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it turned out, they had had some success with that

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in the past, except for the fact that they got

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sued over Back in the mid seventies, they had produced

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The Three Musketeers, which then, unbeknownst to anybody involved in

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the movie except them, became the Three Musketeers and the

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Four Musketeers. So all of the cast and crew got

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paid for one movie, even though they ultimately ended up

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doing two movies. And so the Salcons got sued by

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all of those guys. And now there is a standard

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provision in all acting contracts called the Salct clause that

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says you've got to tell us how many movies we're

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making right now.

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Speaker 3: Do you know, I don't know, John, if you know

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who the actors that were considered to be super Man originally,

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this is a who's whose list in the seventies.

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Speaker 4: I know that one of the weirder ones that every

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time I hear that, I was like, how really, Dustin Hoffman,

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wasn't he one of them? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Dustin Hoffman.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's always one of the stranger.

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Speaker 3: Is Muhammad Ali. There was an actual consideration.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he I mean, obviously he's physically fit

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enough to be the guy. But has he been in

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anything at all? No?

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Speaker 3: No, But he could look like a butterfly and sting

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like a.

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Speaker 2: Bee, and he was he was. He was in a

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Superman comic book. He was yeah, yeah, right, have you

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seen that, John?

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Speaker 4: I have you know what I've read? I have a

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I don't have the actual comic book. I read a

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reprint of it one time, and it was kind of

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it was meant to be. This a gimmicky thing. Throughout

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the seventies and some of the comics they had, like

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you know, Superman would get matched up with like JFK

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or Bob Hope or you know, all these I don't

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know what Superman and Bob Hope were doing, but you

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know they they had all these different issues where they'd

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have like these special guest stars. Yeah, and I can't

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remember the top of my head a whole bunch of

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the story. But you know, on the front cover, it's

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kind of an iconic cover with the comic books. Is

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you know, Superman and Muhammad Ali in a boxing ring together,

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you know, getting ready to throw down. And I remember

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seeing that as a kid and thinking, I don't know

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who that guy is, but he's about to die.

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Speaker 2: You don't get a boxer in the world. He's about

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to die.

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Speaker 3: All right, Well, here's the list. Okay, I thought this

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was interesting. Now, when when you say these people were considered,

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there was an approved list for Superman. The director can

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take this list and hire according to this list, right,

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So you have al Pacino, You've got Dustin Huff, You've

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got Bruce Jenner, You've got Steve McQueen and Paul Newman.

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You've got Clint Eastwood, Muhammad Ali, James Kahan, Warren Batty,

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Neil Diamond, Neil Diamond. And then finally he wasn't approved.

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But so that's just alone, really, wanted this part.

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Speaker 4: M h. I remember hearing about that.

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Speaker 2: No, statistically speaking, it's still the safest form of trouble.

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Speaker 5: Jo Lewis, Yoh, you know, lo there was like these

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two missiles, you know.

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Speaker 4: There was the one and I had to go get

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the I did it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he fought hard.

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Speaker 3: You know who kept him from doing it Marlon Brando

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at the time. So that's just the Loan was considered

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to be the next Marlon Brando, and Marlon Brando said,

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we went to the producers like, no, this guy's not right.

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Stallan is actually out there and you can find this

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on YouTube and he is trashing Marlon Brando, like I

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have no respect him for him.

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Speaker 2: As an actor, as a man, really put him down. Well,

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let's talk a little bit about that, since we're talking

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about getting the movie together. That was the way that

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they ultimately got them to buy in. So we got

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we got Marlon Brando on board, they got Marlon Brando,

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and then they got Gene Hackman.

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Speaker 3: Well, once they got Marlon Brando on board and Gene Hackman,

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then Donner had some freedom to Okay, let me we

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got the stars in places.

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Speaker 2: Let me get somebody who looks the part and I'll

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back us up for just a second. Before Donner was

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on board, they were, I mean, this is this is

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kind of the infinitive sulkans. They were trying to find

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the cheapest place to make a movie, and so they said, okay, let's.

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Speaker 4: Go to Italy.

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Speaker 2: Italy is cheap. But then Marlon Brando had a warrant

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out for obscenity charges from the last Tango in Paris,

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the rape scene, so they couldn't go there.

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Speaker 3: Guy Hamilton was the director at that moment, right, who.

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Speaker 2: Had done all a bunch of James Bond movies. Right.

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But then their next option was, well, let's go to England.

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But Guy Hamilton would be arrested after thirty days of

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being in England because he was taxing. He was just.

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Speaker 3: So they chose Marlon Brando over Guy Hamilton, right, So

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then they had to find a director.

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Speaker 2: The way Donner tells it is he was sitting in

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his bathroom. Sitting in the bathroom, you can imagine what's

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going on there, And he says, and I was really hungover,

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and I had just woken up, and I get this

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call and it's some guy with a foreign accent saying,

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this is Alexander Salken you know who I am. And

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he's like, no, what the heck do you want? I'm

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a producer and interested in making Superman. Would you like

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to direct? He's like, yeah, you know maybe, and he goes,

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we will pay you a million dollars. He's like, all right,

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You've got my attention. Where can I meet you? Donner

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at that point had only done The Omen and some

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other smaller movie that I can't recall.

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Speaker 3: It, Gillingan's Island. He was a director on some of

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the Gilligan's Island, some TP stuff.

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Speaker 2: And then The Omen was his big one, and they

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had Jerry Goldsmith was the composer and Omen. He was

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at Donner's behest. Was supposed to be the composer for Superman,

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but then he wasn't available, so they got John Williams in.

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Then John Williams wasn't available, and Goldsmith was back in,

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and then Goldsmith was back out and John Williams was

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back in. The settled for John Williams.

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Speaker 3: Yeah poor guys, okay, and Margot Kidder got the part.

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So Donner was in charge of the auditions at this point. Yeah, he's,

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you know, looking for loews Ling and she got the

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I don't really have a list of people that would consider.

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But when she came into the room to audition, she tripped.

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She stumbled, and they thought it was charming. He instantly

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said he fell in love with her.

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Speaker 2: Right then I got to say, and rewatching it, she's

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not as unattractive as I remember her being when I

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was a kid, I just thought Superman could do so

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much better than this lady. But upon the rewatch, especially

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in Superman one, she's not a bad looking lady. No,

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she's not.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 3: By the time nineteen eighty one rolled around, she had

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had some breakdowns.

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Speaker 2: Yeh, los teeth and yeah, it's really rough road hard.

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I hung up.

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Speaker 4: What I think about when and I'd heard that before

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about how she tripped, and they're like, oh, that's so charming.

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I have never been offered a movie part, and I

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feel like I have done that so many times in

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my life. I feel like, by now I should have

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an Oscar.

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Speaker 2: I do think it's interesting.

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Speaker 3: When Chris Reeve was brought in to read for the part,

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he was six foot five, one hundred and seventy pounds,

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and he went to the guys and like, ah, he's

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kind of skinny. You know, I don't know if he

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really could pull off Superman and.

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Speaker 2: He sweat refusels. Like at the end of Superman two,

335
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you know, he lifts up Zod and in that moment

336
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you see a little pit stain on the Superman. Yeah, okay,

337
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And so when I heard, you know, he's okay. So

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he has a pit stain. You know, that's that's something

339
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that happens to guys. You can't help that. But then

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I saw his actual audition tape before they had given

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him the padding and the industrial strength deodorant, and I

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mean it's literally down to his elbows on both both

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arms and down down to his waist. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But when they brought him in, he was skinny, tall

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and skinny. And he went to him and said, listen,

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I was a jock in high school. I can put

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on the muscle. Trust me, I can do it. And

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when Donner said, okay, listen, kid, you got the park

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and you got to make make sure you can do this,

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you know, So he trained with David Prowse, Darth Vader himself.

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Speaker 2: We know you're a big star Wars fan.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, I And and that the first time

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as a kid when I had heard that somewhere. I

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know if I was reading. I was reading a book

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or a magazine article or something as a kid, and

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I found that out, I'm like, whoa Superman was Darth

357
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Vader's apprentice? That outstanding? Outstanding.

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Speaker 2: So then as they're putting things together, they had initially

359
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the Salcans had gotten Marrio Puzo to write the script

360
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in this thing. Incredible. And Mario Puzo, if the listeners

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don't know, was the one who had written Godfather one

362
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and two, which, of course just I mean, were the

363
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record setting in their box office success. I'm not really

364
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sure how you decide to put him in charge of

365
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a Superman movie script, but that's what they did. He

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wrote a five hundred and fifty page script that has

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never seen the light of day. Once Donner got his

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hands on it, he was like, this destroys the biblical

369
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canon of Superman. So he got Tom Makowitz to come

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in and do the serious rewrites on the script. And

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once again, I'm going to defend the Sulkins for a second.

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So they fronted the money to get this done.

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Speaker 3: They had the insight to realize number one, that comic

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book movies were going to be successful in the box office.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's important to realize that in nineteen

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seventy eight, the idea of a comic book movie being

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successful was ridiculous to me.

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Speaker 4: That's what's amazing about this Superman movie. Yes, it was

379
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a hit when it came out, you know, people loved it,

380
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but even still, there were a lot of comic book

381
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fans that did not love this movie at all. It

382
00:17:09,759 --> 00:17:12,480
didn't fit with the Superman at the time. In the comics.

383
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In terms of general audiences, you had Batman sixty six,

384
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you had Wonder Woman, she had the Incredible Hulk TV show.

385
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That's pretty much what you had in terms of superheroes

386
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on TV. Other than cartoons, and other than those you

387
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know three, there's probably other TV series that were out

388
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there at the time. Anything that was superhero, anything that

389
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was comic book related, was automatically also campy. Like for

390
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,519
some reason, they always felt like, oh, well, comic books

391
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are for kids, so we got to make this show

392
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kind of for kids. We got to make it campy,

393
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we got to make it silly. And then the fact

394
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that you bring out a Superman movie and you're like,

395
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you know what, we're actually going to try to do

396
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a semi serious take on what if Superman was real?

397
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And some of the things I think in the early

398
00:17:53,599 --> 00:17:55,880
drafts of the script that I had read was they

399
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,200
had all these crazy cameos for like these other actors

400
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,559
and you know comedians of the time, that we're going

401
00:18:01,599 --> 00:18:03,279
to just like walk in for a scene and say

402
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something silly and then walk off. Yep. And that would

403
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,720
have totally made it, you know, just like the sixties

404
00:18:08,759 --> 00:18:10,720
Batman movie. It would have just made it silly. It

405
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would have made it cartoonish. And that's why I love that.

406
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,599
The tagline I think on the poster for this movie

407
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,799
and maybe in the trailer too, was you know, you'll

408
00:18:18,799 --> 00:18:19,759
believe a man can fly?

409
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Speaker 2: And from what I understand the the salcans Co producer

410
00:18:26,759 --> 00:18:30,799
Preduer sper Spindler, that's it. Yeah. He spent he spent

411
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two solid weeks with the DC executives developing an integrity

412
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,000
of the character clause for the contract. Before they were

413
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,079
willing to let wait them, let's often have it. They

414
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,799
they didn't want it. They didn't want the Batman thing

415
00:18:43,839 --> 00:18:47,920
to happen to Superman because it's too valuable a character.

416
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,480
I mean, it's it's one of the American fables.

417
00:18:51,559 --> 00:18:53,519
Speaker 3: Now, can you imagine the pressure that the Salcans were

418
00:18:53,519 --> 00:18:57,079
actually under, not only fronting this financially, but as soon

419
00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,400
as you get the permission to shoot this thing and

420
00:18:59,519 --> 00:19:01,400
let's go do this, you got to figure out how

421
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:02,759
can I make a guy fly?

422
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,119
Speaker 2: That was a huge part of things. We can talk

423
00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,400
about that the flight thing later on, but that was

424
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,640
that was definitely like the most critical issue of the

425
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,640
filming was we cannot make this look can't We can't

426
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,759
make it look fake. It's got to look real.

427
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,799
Speaker 3: They tyd with lighters and cartoons until they finally got

428
00:19:21,799 --> 00:19:25,039
that complex cable thing, and I still am amazed.

429
00:19:25,319 --> 00:19:29,160
Speaker 2: So that's that's that's our origin story for Superman one

430
00:19:32,279 --> 00:19:35,839
and then for well, yeah, I mean sort of. There's

431
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,480
obviously a story there with Superman two. So as the

432
00:19:39,519 --> 00:19:43,039
filming went on, the Salcans would constantly tell Donner that

433
00:19:43,079 --> 00:19:46,359
he was over budget and over time, and he mainstains

434
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,200
to this day that he was never told what the

435
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,039
budget was and never told how much time he had

436
00:19:51,079 --> 00:19:53,880
to shoot. But it got to the point that he

437
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,960
couldn't handle being in the same room with Eric Spinkler

438
00:19:57,039 --> 00:20:00,000
whatever his name is, and so they had Richard Lester

439
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,000
come in as kind of a go between. Now, Richard

440
00:20:03,079 --> 00:20:06,799
Lester was among those guys from the Three Musketeers and

441
00:20:06,799 --> 00:20:09,359
the Four Musketeers that was in the process of suing

442
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,400
the Salkans at the time, so that you kind of

443
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,359
get this idea that there was a wink, wink, nudge

444
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:16,960
nudge of you'll get your money, but we're going to

445
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,319
get it to you through Superman instead of through this lawsuit.

446
00:20:20,599 --> 00:20:21,599
I think there's no doubt.

447
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,079
Speaker 3: I mean, Richard Lessard may a deal with the devil.

448
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,079
Speaker 2: You guys have been screwing over for all these years.

449
00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:28,680
I'll tell you what.

450
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:30,920
Speaker 3: We'll get you your money, but you've got to help

451
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:31,720
us out with Donner.

452
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so even though you know that we talked

453
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,440
about them filming both Superman one and Superman two at

454
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,960
the same time, at some point they said, hey, this

455
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,000
is getting so much publicity. We've got a chance to

456
00:20:43,039 --> 00:20:47,759
release it on the fortieth anniversary of Superman. Stop working

457
00:20:47,839 --> 00:20:51,759
on part two and finish up part one. And well,

458
00:20:51,759 --> 00:20:54,400
if that's not obvious, what's about to happen to Richard Donner?

459
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,559
I don't know what is. So they they take the

460
00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:02,039
ending from Superman two and put it at the end

461
00:21:02,039 --> 00:21:05,440
of Superman one. The whole spending the Earth backwards to

462
00:21:05,519 --> 00:21:08,359
reverse time was originally supposed to be the end of

463
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,680
Superman two. The ending of Superman one was supposed to

464
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,839
be as he pushes the one of the two missiles

465
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,119
that les Luthers and off out into space, and that

466
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,039
missile is what destroys the Phantom Zone and releases the

467
00:21:22,039 --> 00:21:22,799
three criminals.

468
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Phantom Zone that looks like Queen two, the

469
00:21:26,079 --> 00:21:29,400
album they're all trapped in the Queen album.

470
00:21:29,559 --> 00:21:32,359
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Well, and in the Mario Pousa script there

471
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,519
was actually four guys. They would have really had the

472
00:21:34,519 --> 00:21:35,640
album cover they had.

473
00:21:37,319 --> 00:21:37,960
Speaker 4: So yeah.

474
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,799
Speaker 2: So then they fire after after Superman one is a

475
00:21:42,079 --> 00:21:46,079
huge success, they fire Richard Donner and they make Richard

476
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:50,960
Lester the director of Superman two, and they have to

477
00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:55,079
let enough time go by that Marlon Brando's contract expires

478
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,240
so that they don't have to pay him anymore. Susanna

479
00:21:57,319 --> 00:21:59,880
York comes in in that spot and kind of gives

480
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,720
you know, I'm going to start teaching you, which if

481
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:04,599
you've seen the Richard have you seen the Richard Donner cut?

482
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 4: John, I have, Yeah, only once a few years ago.

483
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,960
I have the DVD, but I've only watched it once.

484
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:10,960
I enjoyed it.

485
00:22:11,039 --> 00:22:13,400
Speaker 2: I liked it, but yeah, I enjoyed it as well.

486
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,759
I mean it's a little rough because they're using scenes

487
00:22:15,839 --> 00:22:19,119
from the test footage that they did and auditions that

488
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,039
they did. But the thing that is compelling about it

489
00:22:22,079 --> 00:22:24,799
is the Marlon Brando part. Richard Donner set out to

490
00:22:24,799 --> 00:22:28,319
make this analogous to the Christ story, and there's really

491
00:22:28,559 --> 00:22:32,559
when he has that moment where he's gone back after

492
00:22:32,599 --> 00:22:35,559
giving up his powers, and he's gone back to try

493
00:22:35,599 --> 00:22:38,240
to get his powers back even though he's been told

494
00:22:38,279 --> 00:22:43,160
it's not possible. It's ultimately Joerell's sacrifice giving him his

495
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,119
power that causes Superman to become super again.

496
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,839
Speaker 3: That whole scene is pretty heavy handed in you cannot

497
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,279
ever give your powers.

498
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,519
Speaker 2: Back, never ever ever see you better think hard about this.

499
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 3: Okay, yet you left the crystal no problem then, Okay.

500
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,079
Speaker 4: I've conditioned my entire family understand that if we're watching

501
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,759
a comic book movie, nobody ever dies, nobody ever, that

502
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,119
nothing's permanent. It's not going to happen. But no one

503
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,279
of the things, like I said, I don't remember much.

504
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,400
You know in terms of some of the differences. It

505
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,480
details the differences between the Richard Lester versus the Richard

506
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,160
Donner cut. But one of the things that really stuck

507
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:17,319
out to me, and I think it was one of

508
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,480
the scenes with Jerrelle. There's a part where he's kind

509
00:23:19,519 --> 00:23:22,200
of explaining some of this stuff to Superman to kal

510
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,960
El and but it's almost like he shoots a look

511
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,079
over at Lois and it's almost like, you know, this

512
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:27,720
is all your fault.

513
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 2: Like there's a.

514
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 4: Moment where he like looks at her and be like,

515
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,440
you know what, if you weren't here, I wouldn't have

516
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,680
to be having this talk with my kid. And I

517
00:23:35,039 --> 00:23:37,359
vividly remember that. Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong scene,

518
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,079
but I vividly remember something like that and thinking, while

519
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:41,839
this movie is a lot darker than it used to be,

520
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:42,920
you know.

521
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 3: In Defensive Love, she never asked him to give up her.

522
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,880
Speaker 2: Powers power, And I mean, come on, she fell in

523
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,839
love with Superman. She treated Clark like crust. Why would

524
00:23:52,839 --> 00:23:54,799
you decide to be the guy that she doesn't like?

525
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 4: Man, if you're ever going to make a large life

526
00:23:57,279 --> 00:24:00,119
changing decision, let me speak with the woman that you

527
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,240
love before you do that, don't buy her a car.

528
00:24:03,319 --> 00:24:05,680
It's talking about my dad's situation. One time he got

529
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:07,160
a really good deal on a car, but it was

530
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,440
a Grandma car and he got a great deal on it.

531
00:24:09,519 --> 00:24:12,200
And we were all visiting family in Missouri and he

532
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,279
was coming from Chicago and he drove up in that car,

533
00:24:15,559 --> 00:24:18,200
got out and looked at my mom and said, check

534
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:22,960
out your new car. You know, I'm not going to

535
00:24:23,039 --> 00:24:25,559
say that. I remember my parents fighting a whole lot,

536
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,480
but I felt like swords were going to be drawn

537
00:24:29,559 --> 00:24:31,960
at that moment. So you know those type of things.

538
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,519
If you're going to buy a Buick Park Avenue that's

539
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,599
awfully ugly for your wife, or if you're going to

540
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,640
give up your Kryptonian heritage and superpowers, please at least

541
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,640
have some kind of conversation with the woman before you

542
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:43,039
do anything.

543
00:24:43,079 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 3: Hopefully your dad found his lost green crystal and regained

544
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:47,119
his powers after that.

545
00:24:47,279 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 2: Man, Yeah, like he was driving a new Viewer.

546
00:24:50,599 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 4: Hey, you know what, Actually, the next time around, when

547
00:24:53,039 --> 00:24:54,680
it was somebody else's turn to get a new car,

548
00:24:54,799 --> 00:24:57,079
that got passed down to the kids, and she got

549
00:24:57,079 --> 00:24:59,759
a very nice new car after that. He did make

550
00:24:59,799 --> 00:25:00,640
up later on.

551
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 2: So then there was some you know, they've got other

552
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,440
people that they're talking about bringing in whenever. Richard Lester

553
00:25:06,519 --> 00:25:09,519
is now directing Superman Too, even though they've filmed seventy

554
00:25:09,519 --> 00:25:12,039
five percent of it with Donner right, and one of

555
00:25:12,079 --> 00:25:14,759
those guys is John Williams.

556
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,799
Speaker 3: So the Ilia saw Kind, John Williams and Richard Lester

557
00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:22,920
are in a room and they're watching kind of the

558
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,680
early cut of Superman two to discuss the score. Ilia

559
00:25:25,759 --> 00:25:27,480
saw Kind has to leave the room to go to

560
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,519
the bathroom, and when he comes back, John Williams and

561
00:25:31,599 --> 00:25:34,480
Richard Lester had gotten in such a fight that John

562
00:25:34,519 --> 00:25:37,599
Williams said, I cannot get along with this man.

563
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,319
Speaker 2: I'm out of here. I'm done. You lose the greatest composer.

564
00:25:41,319 --> 00:25:46,200
How do you do that? It's crazy. Gene Hackman refused

565
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,000
to come back, Valley peren ned Baty. None of those

566
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,960
guys came back. So everything that you see in Superman two,

567
00:25:52,039 --> 00:25:54,599
that's got them, and it was filmed by Richard Donner.

568
00:25:55,039 --> 00:25:59,119
They brought Richard Donner in too to see if you know, hey,

569
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,279
you know, you can have a co directing credit on

570
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:05,279
this or whatever. And apparently they got just at the

571
00:26:05,319 --> 00:26:08,400
beginning of the Eiffel Tower scene before he got up

572
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,720
and said, please do not put my name on this movie.

573
00:26:10,799 --> 00:26:13,319
Speaker 3: Richard Donner is not the Richard Donner we know of today.

574
00:26:13,519 --> 00:26:16,079
At that time, when he was shooting Superman, he was

575
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,279
just the guy who directed The Omen and Gilligan's Island.

576
00:26:18,319 --> 00:26:21,359
Now he's the guy who directed Goonies and the Lethal

577
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,480
Weapon movies. And Richard Lester had done Harday's Night.

578
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,839
Speaker 2: And Three Musketeers and Four Musketeers.

579
00:26:26,839 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 4: But right it seems like there was just a lot

580
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,960
of I mean, there's even some other stuff about how

581
00:26:33,079 --> 00:26:35,440
even like Margot Kidder and several of the other people

582
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:36,960
just did not get along with him at all. So

583
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,200
it just kind of sounds like he is not the

584
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,079
guy to work with, which is probably why most of

585
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,519
them didn't seem to come back for Superman three either.

586
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 3: In order for him to be called the director, he

587
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,359
had to shoot over fifty percent of the movie well,

588
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:48,839
with seventy five percent of it in the can.

589
00:26:48,839 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 2: He had to reshoot scenes to get the credit.

590
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 4: So and his and his style it was very different

591
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:55,759
than Richard Donner's. There were there were a couple of

592
00:26:55,799 --> 00:26:57,960
things that I've read and just in watching the two movies,

593
00:26:58,039 --> 00:27:01,319
Richard Donners, they treated it very cinematically, for lack of

594
00:27:01,319 --> 00:27:03,440
a better word, I mean, it was very much you

595
00:27:03,519 --> 00:27:05,640
have all of these kind of very long shots, I

596
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,160
mean of some of it looks like it could be

597
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,160
a painting. Then you've got Richard Lester, and he was

598
00:27:09,279 --> 00:27:11,319
very much like, I wanted to look like a comic book.

599
00:27:11,519 --> 00:27:13,519
I'm going to cram a bunch of characters in this frame.

600
00:27:13,839 --> 00:27:15,799
We're gonna move quickly, We're going to have this kind

601
00:27:15,799 --> 00:27:17,240
of shot. We're going to do it this way. The

602
00:27:17,279 --> 00:27:19,480
camera is going to pan this direction and this fast.

603
00:27:19,559 --> 00:27:22,559
And so it sounds like he kind of wanted to

604
00:27:22,559 --> 00:27:24,599
make his own mark on it. But also he didn't

605
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:29,000
agree with the very artistic way that Richard Donner had

606
00:27:29,039 --> 00:27:31,200
wanted to shoot this. That it was much more of

607
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:32,880
a all right, well this is an action movie and

608
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:34,160
it's a comic book, so let's make it look like

609
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:34,799
a comic book.

610
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,799
Speaker 2: Well, and I'm gonna blaspheme here because I mean, let

611
00:27:38,799 --> 00:27:42,079
me just say, I grew up obsessed with Superman two.

612
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,599
I literally memorized every line, watched it over and over again.

613
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,759
Then as you grow older, you realize, okay, there's a

614
00:27:49,759 --> 00:27:52,160
difference between these two movies. Stagram one was a movie

615
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,960
made for adults and Superman two was a movie made

616
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,480
for kids. I mean, really, that's kind of the distinction

617
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:03,319
because as a slightly older person, not completely mature, I

618
00:28:03,319 --> 00:28:05,319
watched Superman one again, I was like, this is kind

619
00:28:05,319 --> 00:28:08,880
of long, this is kind of dull insponse, and that's

620
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,359
that kind of epic stuff that you're talking about. So

621
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,759
here's the blasphemy. Richard Donner was still campy. His his

622
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,559
epic noess and his beautiful scenery was all in Smallville.

623
00:28:19,599 --> 00:28:22,480
I mean, it was the great planes and then you

624
00:28:22,519 --> 00:28:25,000
had a little bit up in the Arctic. But when

625
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,759
when Superman comes to Metropolis, the comedy starts and it's

626
00:28:29,799 --> 00:28:34,599
it's that same style of goofy dialogue, puns and stuff

627
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,880
that continues throughout the Superman movie.

628
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,079
Speaker 4: This friends of mine, we've when we've had discussions about

629
00:28:39,079 --> 00:28:40,880
the Star Trek movies, so you got Star Trek fans

630
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:41,240
at all.

631
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 2: I really like the new iteration Chris Pine a whole

632
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,400
lot better than I do the old ones. I like

633
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,799
the old ones to watch the movies, and I watched

634
00:28:48,799 --> 00:28:50,720
the series a little bit, but I'm far from what

635
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,480
you were like Van Hagler over Ben Helen. Oh my gosh,

636
00:28:54,599 --> 00:28:56,799
he brought her audience ahead John.

637
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 4: But yeah, no, And that's that's kind of a comparison

638
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,680
that that I've made in the past two is, you know,

639
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,839
as a kid growing up, I used to really like

640
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,960
the Star Trek movies. And I think some of, you know,

641
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:08,720
some of the stuff with these movies is that the

642
00:29:08,759 --> 00:29:10,960
age that I was when I watched these movies, I

643
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,680
was always watching them with my dad, and so I

644
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,079
always have just these memories of watching him with him

645
00:29:15,839 --> 00:29:17,880
ingrained in my head, and I think a lot of

646
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,160
my reaction came from his reaction, and I always think

647
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,359
of you know, and I love both of these movies too,

648
00:29:23,759 --> 00:29:25,799
but I will fully admit that one is very long

649
00:29:25,839 --> 00:29:29,119
and very boring. Is the first the first two Star

650
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,839
Trek movies. Is I always feel like the Superman movies

651
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,039
are kind of similar to the Star Trek movies in

652
00:29:34,079 --> 00:29:37,079
that Star Trek one even I mean, if you're if

653
00:29:37,119 --> 00:29:39,039
you're a Trek fan listening to this, if you got

654
00:29:39,039 --> 00:29:42,480
to admit, that's a long movie and it's not always

655
00:29:42,519 --> 00:29:45,039
very exciting. Star Trek two that was, you know, my

656
00:29:45,319 --> 00:29:47,359
dad would watch that with us, and and and just

657
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:49,799
to me, and some people think that one's kind of

658
00:29:49,799 --> 00:29:52,200
boring too. It's like it's like watching a submarine battle

659
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,440
in space. But you know, it's to me, that movie

660
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,319
is exciting. And to me, that's kind of like this

661
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,640
NonStop action movie. That's that's a Star Trek movie. And

662
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:01,920
that's kind of how I think about some of the

663
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,799
these two Superman movies too. Is the first one, it's

664
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,519
very heavy on the story. It's the origin story, so

665
00:30:07,559 --> 00:30:09,519
you've got to get that stuff in there. You gotta

666
00:30:09,559 --> 00:30:13,279
pack as much history and mythology and information into this one.

667
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:15,559
A little light on some of the action, you know,

668
00:30:15,559 --> 00:30:17,359
when they get to it, it's awesome, but a little

669
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,759
light on the action. Superman two, it's boom, We're we're

670
00:30:20,799 --> 00:30:23,000
action right away. You know, we're drop kicking people on

671
00:30:23,039 --> 00:30:25,920
the moon, we're walking on water, we're you know, all

672
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:26,440
that stuff.

673
00:30:26,519 --> 00:30:29,799
Speaker 2: And don't forget the montage of everything that was important

674
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,759
that happened in Superman one. I think I think I'm

675
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,559
rewatching Superman one. I thought to myself at one point,

676
00:30:35,599 --> 00:30:37,559
I was like, did I actually watch this movie, or

677
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:39,920
is everything I know about this movie from the beginning

678
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,039
of Superman two. I would say, since we're talking now

679
00:30:43,079 --> 00:30:46,160
about Superman two, let's talk about nineteen eighty one and

680
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,960
what was going on, because you told me what was

681
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,079
what was being released in a theater at this time,

682
00:30:51,119 --> 00:30:53,559
and I was just like, holy smokes, I would have

683
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:54,200
lived there.

684
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 4: Okay.

685
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 3: So Superman two was released in the United States June nineteenth,

686
00:30:59,279 --> 00:31:02,359
nineteen eighty one. In my estimation, this might be the

687
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,920
greatest two weeks of eighties movies released during a week

688
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,279
two week period anytime in the eighties. All right, So

689
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,480
June twelfth, the weekend before Superman two was released, you

690
00:31:13,559 --> 00:31:16,240
had History of the World by mel Brooks, Clash of

691
00:31:16,279 --> 00:31:19,680
the Titans, Awesome, and Raiders of the Lost Arc all

692
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:24,279
in the same weekend. Yeah, okay, next week June nineteenth,

693
00:31:24,519 --> 00:31:25,200
Superman two.

694
00:31:25,279 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 2: As we said, yeh, Cannonball Run, Oh hilarious.

695
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 6: Right the week afterwards June twenty sixth, Okay, we're bookending

696
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:39,079
this Dragon Slayer forty your Eyes Only, great Muppet Caper

697
00:31:39,279 --> 00:31:40,039
and stripes.

698
00:31:40,119 --> 00:31:42,359
Speaker 4: So basically, if you're a kid in nineteen eighty one,

699
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,680
you're broke. You're constantly asking mom and dad, Mammy, can

700
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,279
I have a couple of bucks? To go see a movie. Yes,

701
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:55,880
I would have had no money at all.

702
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,359
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the beginning of Man of Steel. Let's

703
00:31:59,359 --> 00:32:02,119
talk about the Org story there. So this is an

704
00:32:02,279 --> 00:32:06,160
entirely different time in history. Of course, this is two

705
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,000
thousand and eight. Warner Brothers starts to consider doing a

706
00:32:09,039 --> 00:32:13,799
Superman movie again. Two thousand and six had seen Superman Returns,

707
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:18,079
which wasn't a big success. But in two thousand and eight,

708
00:32:18,599 --> 00:32:22,200
you've got the Dark Knight has come out, iron Man

709
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,519
has come out, and so they're like, I think we

710
00:32:24,519 --> 00:32:27,039
can do Superman again. And Iron Man and Dark Knight

711
00:32:27,119 --> 00:32:30,960
proved that superhero movies can be mind blowing successes. So

712
00:32:31,279 --> 00:32:34,039
why not go back to the original superhero a Warner Brothers,

713
00:32:34,079 --> 00:32:37,359
with the success of Dark Knight and it being a

714
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,160
DC comic book movie, they were just waiting for Christopher Nolan.

715
00:32:41,599 --> 00:32:45,000
And of course David Goyer is the one who'd written

716
00:32:45,119 --> 00:32:48,119
the trilogy, the whole Dark Knight trilogy, and he comes

717
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,319
to Christopher Nolan at some point and says, I have

718
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,720
this idea for a Superman movie. And Christopher Nolan reads

719
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,960
his script and says, I want to make this movie.

720
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 4: You know, in terms of comic book movie. There's two

721
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,960
kind of famous threads of the movies that never got made,

722
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,640
and it's either Superman or Spider Man. They always talk

723
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,960
about how Spider Man. They were trying to make a

724
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,480
Spider Man movie all through the eighties, and you would

725
00:33:11,519 --> 00:33:14,359
hear that like every year for a decade. Never happened.

726
00:33:14,559 --> 00:33:16,960
Same thing with Superman. It was always, you know, after

727
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,960
Superman four, but they had plans to make a Superman five.

728
00:33:20,119 --> 00:33:22,640
The rights went back to the Sulcans because they had

729
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,319
lost the rights and Cannon Films they were the ones

730
00:33:25,319 --> 00:33:28,079
that did Superman four, and so after Superman four they

731
00:33:28,119 --> 00:33:30,680
went bankrupt and they always kind of blame you know,

732
00:33:30,759 --> 00:33:32,880
dumping a bunch of money into that movie as the

733
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,880
reason for part of their bankruptcy. But then the rights

734
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,279
reverted back to the Sulcans, and the Sulcans were, you know,

735
00:33:39,359 --> 00:33:41,480
we should we should do a story. You know in

736
00:33:41,519 --> 00:33:43,640
the comic books they had like this bottle City of

737
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,079
Candor that had you know, somehow escaped Rypton's destruction and

738
00:33:47,119 --> 00:33:49,519
it was full of Kryptonians. What if we make a

739
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,119
movie that brings that bottle city back, and it involves

740
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,640
bringing a whole bunch of Kryptonians, and so that was

741
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,720
kind of the the idea behind Superman five and then

742
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,359
it just never got made. Then after that they had

743
00:34:01,799 --> 00:34:05,160
the idea behind you know, there's the Superman Reborn and

744
00:34:05,279 --> 00:34:06,880
that was around about the time that they did the

745
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,440
Death of Superman comic in ninety three, I think it was.

746
00:34:12,039 --> 00:34:14,400
And that was a huge hit at the time, and

747
00:34:14,559 --> 00:34:15,880
I mean you had people that had never read a

748
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,039
comic book were like, whohalla, Superman's dead. I got to

749
00:34:18,079 --> 00:34:19,559
go find out what this is. And so that I

750
00:34:19,599 --> 00:34:22,639
think those guys, yeah, and I think that really kind

751
00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:24,920
of started a comic book boom. I mean, it was

752
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,199
already starting to pick up in the nineties, but I

753
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:29,199
think that's what started a lot of the heavy collecting

754
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,639
of comics and where it where things as a collector,

755
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,840
things got ridiculous. But when that was huge, then they

756
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:36,159
had these other ideas. They're like, well, you know what,

757
00:34:36,199 --> 00:34:39,039
let's do a Death of Superman movie, Like let's do this.

758
00:34:39,119 --> 00:34:40,840
Let's let's kill him in the movie and let's bring

759
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,440
him back, and let's let's have this you know, amazing

760
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,800
movie where he's got the you know, this giant robotics

761
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,400
suit he can fight in because he doesn't have his

762
00:34:49,519 --> 00:34:52,079
powers anymore. That was kind of at the time. They

763
00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:54,239
kind of were going back and forth on the script,

764
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,000
and I think Kevin Smith actually ended up coming in

765
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,039
at some point looking at the script and being like,

766
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,639
you guys are out of minds, Like this is the

767
00:35:01,679 --> 00:35:04,280
stupidest thing I've ever read. This does not fit with

768
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,880
the character of Superman at all, And so they brought

769
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,679
him in and then he started to develop.

770
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:10,760
Speaker 3: The death of Superman lives, the.

771
00:35:10,639 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 4: Death of Superman lives and this just sounds like the

772
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,760
most insane And what's funny to me is, you know

773
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:18,519
that was the one where like Nicholas Cage was going

774
00:35:18,599 --> 00:35:22,559
to be Superman, yeah, and Tim Burton was going to direct,

775
00:35:22,679 --> 00:35:24,400
and I want to say, they were going to have

776
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,000
just crazy stories. And what's funny to me is that

777
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:32,519
John Peters was one of the producers even back then,

778
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,360
and like he had this whole idea of, well, we

779
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,599
got to have like these crazy creatures and we want

780
00:35:38,639 --> 00:35:41,400
Superman fighting, yes, giant spiders. We want Superman fighting like

781
00:35:41,519 --> 00:35:45,000
giant mechanical spiders, and and Brainiac and Christopher Walken is

782
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,719
going to be Brainiac and all this just crazy stuff well,

783
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,480
you know, and and a lot of that got shot down,

784
00:35:50,519 --> 00:35:52,039
it never got made. But if you went to go

785
00:35:52,039 --> 00:35:55,039
see Wild Wild West just a few years later, it

786
00:35:55,119 --> 00:35:57,519
had giant spiders. So he clearly got his you know,

787
00:35:57,599 --> 00:35:59,760
his spider fetish, you know, got worked out through Wild

788
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,000
weefeld West. But so it's funny to me to look

789
00:36:02,039 --> 00:36:05,039
at Man of Steel success. I know, yeah, you know,

790
00:36:05,079 --> 00:36:07,039
if you can go from Superman to Wild Wild West,

791
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:09,559
but it's funny to me to see Man of Steel

792
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,519
and see that list of all, right, who are the

793
00:36:11,559 --> 00:36:12,639
producers from Man of Steel?

794
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 2: John Peters, Okay, so I've got a kind of origin

795
00:36:17,519 --> 00:36:21,239
story on Man of Steel. Now, John, you're from Illinois.

796
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,239
You're in the Illinois area, I mean you're in the

797
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,239
Chicago area, right, yeah, yeah, So did you know that

798
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,079
they were shooting Man of Steel in the various towns

799
00:36:29,119 --> 00:36:30,159
around that they were doing that.

800
00:36:30,639 --> 00:36:33,079
Speaker 4: I did, and actually was I was trying at one

801
00:36:33,079 --> 00:36:37,239
point to make a trip down there because I knew

802
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,119
the town that they were filming it in, and it's

803
00:36:39,159 --> 00:36:41,199
far enough way, it's a few hours away from where

804
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,480
I am, and there were times where I was like,

805
00:36:43,599 --> 00:36:44,679
I just I want to get down there and I

806
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:46,320
want to see it because I actually had a chance

807
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,000
another teacher friend of mine and we were extras in

808
00:36:50,039 --> 00:36:52,559
the dark night, and so we got to be in

809
00:36:52,639 --> 00:36:55,320
downtown Chicago. We spent most of our day in kind

810
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,679
of like one of the upper floors of some building

811
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,360
that was down I think by LaSalle Street to Chicago,

812
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,280
where they were filming one of the scenes, and we

813
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,199
actually were extras. I think all of our scenes where

814
00:37:04,199 --> 00:37:07,800
you could actually see us got cut, but we were extras.

815
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,000
You know, story of my life. They won't hire me

816
00:37:10,039 --> 00:37:12,199
after I trip over stuff, They won't leave me in

817
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,079
the movie. But yeah, we got to be extras in

818
00:37:14,199 --> 00:37:17,800
the kind of funeral procession scene where the Joker is

819
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,480
disguised as one of the police officers that's going to

820
00:37:20,559 --> 00:37:23,000
you know, fire the salute shots, and so we were

821
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:24,960
there for that scene. We were extras on the sides.

822
00:37:25,159 --> 00:37:26,960
We were supposed to be people that were panicking on

823
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,760
the sides as the Joker was running away, and as

824
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,639
he turned and ran away, he ran right in front

825
00:37:31,679 --> 00:37:33,280
of us. So that was a lot of fun and

826
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,400
being able to see, as somebody who loves movies, being

827
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,199
able to be on the set and see how the

828
00:37:38,199 --> 00:37:41,519
whole thing works. I was just as enthralled with that

829
00:37:41,599 --> 00:37:44,199
in between time where they weren't shooting anything, like how

830
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,119
stuff was getting set up, how they were working with

831
00:37:46,159 --> 00:37:48,800
the natural light of a cloud came by, you know,

832
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,880
Christopher Nolan started swearing because he knew that his timetable

833
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,840
was off, but you know, just being able to see

834
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:56,760
that in person. So when I found out that they

835
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,360
were going to be filming, I think it was in Princeton, Illinois.

836
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,039
When I found out out, I was like, you know what,

837
00:38:01,199 --> 00:38:03,480
I want to see this And I don't remember why.

838
00:38:03,599 --> 00:38:05,400
I remember having some plans to do that, and it

839
00:38:05,519 --> 00:38:07,239
just never it never materialized.

840
00:38:10,559 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 2: The story and by the time this episode comes out,

841
00:38:13,039 --> 00:38:17,639
we will have done the Gladiator Versus Brave Heart episodes.

842
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:22,639
And so after Gladiator, Russell Crowe filmed a movie called

843
00:38:22,679 --> 00:38:25,639
Proof of Life and it was also filmed over in

844
00:38:25,679 --> 00:38:28,400
the UK, and he's got a son in the movie,

845
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,280
and part of the movie involves a rugby game. They

846
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,719
go to Stowe Boarding School to film this rugby scene

847
00:38:36,079 --> 00:38:39,360
and they're really playing rugby and there's one player out

848
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,400
there that he sees that it's just lighting up the

849
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,719
field and he's really impressed with him. And then once

850
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,559
they're done with their filming and the game's over, Russell

851
00:38:46,599 --> 00:38:50,079
Crowe is standing by himself and this young rugby player

852
00:38:50,079 --> 00:38:53,400
comes over to him and starts talking to him and

853
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,039
doesn't say anything about rugby, but just says, hey, you know,

854
00:38:56,079 --> 00:38:58,719
I'm considering being an actor and I just wanted to

855
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:03,000
ask you about that. And so once they finish filming

856
00:39:03,039 --> 00:39:05,960
Proof of Life, Russell Crowe is making this kind of

857
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,039
care package for the kid who played his son in

858
00:39:08,079 --> 00:39:12,840
the movie and includes an autographed gladiator poster. And as

859
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,079
he's doing it and he thinks, you know what, I'm

860
00:39:15,079 --> 00:39:16,960
going to do one for that rugby player that came

861
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:18,559
over and talked to me and was a nice guy.

862
00:39:18,679 --> 00:39:22,559
So he sends him something that says a journey of

863
00:39:22,559 --> 00:39:25,000
a thousand miles begins with one step. And so this

864
00:39:25,079 --> 00:39:27,880
rugby player gets this thing and for the next several

865
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:32,920
years will work in London, bartending in London and Jersey,

866
00:39:33,039 --> 00:39:35,559
and then go to LA for a few months to

867
00:39:35,599 --> 00:39:39,559
try to get into movies and not be successful, and

868
00:39:39,679 --> 00:39:42,239
come back and bartend some more until he earns enough

869
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,119
money to go back to LA again. And that's his

870
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:50,559
life until twelve years later, and Russell Crowe is working

871
00:39:50,599 --> 00:39:55,159
out next to this guy in Naperville, Illinois, and he

872
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,199
Russell keeps looking at him and says, do I know you?

873
00:39:59,039 --> 00:40:03,079
And Henry Cavill says, do you remember going to the

874
00:40:03,119 --> 00:40:07,280
Stowboarding School in the UK? And Russell says, yeah, I do,

875
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,400
And he goes, do you remember a kid coming to

876
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:15,079
ask you about acting? He goes, I do. He says,

877
00:40:15,599 --> 00:40:19,679
what did I tell you? Henry says, well, you said

878
00:40:20,039 --> 00:40:22,840
it pays really well, but they treat you like poop

879
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,079
and Russell Crow goes, how are you, Henry? It's good

880
00:40:27,079 --> 00:40:28,039
to see.

881
00:40:29,159 --> 00:40:31,159
Speaker 4: Well. I remember, like one of my one of my

882
00:40:31,199 --> 00:40:34,800
favorite movies is the counter Bandy Cristo, but Henry Cavill

883
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,239
is the Sun in that movie, and I vividly remember

884
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:39,920
at the time two thousand and two looking at that

885
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,079
and going, you know, that kid could play Superboy. That

886
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:44,800
would be a really good you know, if they could

887
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,000
just get he's got the face like it's a very

888
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,239
similar to a Christopher Reeve kind of face. So they

889
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,039
should make a Superboy TV show movie whatever with that kid.

890
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 2: Henry Cavill was in good shape, but wasn't in Superman shape,

891
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,360
and so he trained with the same guys from the

892
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,440
Jim Jones facility that had trained the guys from three hundred,

893
00:41:04,639 --> 00:41:07,320
Zack Snyder's other movie. You know, all of the guys

894
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,800
in three hundred looked like bodybuilder shuff.

895
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,559
Speaker 4: He didn't want any kind of digital touch ups. He

896
00:41:13,559 --> 00:41:16,400
didn't want anything like he was like, you know what

897
00:41:16,599 --> 00:41:19,000
part of yeah, He's like, you know what if this

898
00:41:19,039 --> 00:41:21,679
movie is about me as a character testing my limits

899
00:41:22,039 --> 00:41:25,519
and figuring out, well, how powerful can I become? Like

900
00:41:25,519 --> 00:41:28,199
what do I need to work at this? I thought

901
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:29,599
that was amazing that he just said, you know what,

902
00:41:29,679 --> 00:41:31,320
I'm not going to do any of these other tricks

903
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,119
that some people might do to bulk up for these kinds.

904
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,079
This is going to be o naturelle.

905
00:41:35,639 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 3: I heard about he got ripped up for this movie

906
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,280
obviously really really cut, and they shot all of the

907
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:45,199
shirtless stuff first so that, you know, out of consideration,

908
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,639
and then as soon as that was done, Zack Snyder

909
00:41:47,639 --> 00:41:49,599
bought him a pizza and a gallon of ice.

910
00:41:49,639 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 2: Great, Okay, so this is this is a good say

911
00:42:00,079 --> 00:42:02,679
way I think into the actors, and I think first

912
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:04,920
actors that we got to talk about are Henry Cavill

913
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,400
and Christopher Reeve. So Henry Cavill I think did a

914
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:13,239
good job at being Superman. Christopher Reeve was Superman, Yes

915
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,440
he was and always will be in my heart, Superman.

916
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,320
I don't have anything bad to say about Henry Cavill's performance.

917
00:42:21,679 --> 00:42:23,599
And I think this may largely have to do with

918
00:42:23,639 --> 00:42:26,079
the nostalgia idea that we bring up from time to time,

919
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:30,119
but I think that it probably even goes beyond that,

920
00:42:30,199 --> 00:42:33,400
because as they had looked at Christopher Reeve passed him

921
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:38,079
up and started looking at bigger actors and bigger stars,

922
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,039
and kept coming back to him because there's just something

923
00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:46,840
about Christopher Reeve that makes you love him like, I

924
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,000
don't know what it is, and I can't. It's not

925
00:42:50,119 --> 00:42:54,400
a definable thing. He just okay. So the actor himself

926
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:58,599
put it this way. He says, when Superman says I

927
00:42:58,639 --> 00:43:02,840
fight for truth, justice and the American Way, a normal

928
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,639
person would snicker, but he means it right, And Christopher

929
00:43:06,679 --> 00:43:12,119
Reeve played that perfectly. You were like, yeah, yeah, the

930
00:43:12,159 --> 00:43:14,800
American Way, Yeah, that's right, which I mean you get

931
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,039
to think nineteen seventy eight that, I mean, there was

932
00:43:18,079 --> 00:43:20,320
a there was a lot of upheaval in the in

933
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,519
the years preceding that that the idea of saying, you know,

934
00:43:23,559 --> 00:43:26,320
Superman fights for the American way would have gone south

935
00:43:26,679 --> 00:43:30,400
that but he pulled it off. I mean, he puts

936
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,400
the flag back on the White House in nineteen eighty one.

937
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,880
He made people proud to be American again.

938
00:43:36,519 --> 00:43:38,159
Speaker 3: I think that Chris Reeve is kind of like the

939
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,960
Lgosi in Dracula. It's the first time you get to

940
00:43:42,119 --> 00:43:45,960
taste the Superman character, or at least it was for me, right,

941
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,679
and so that just kind of cemented what my Superman is. Yeah,

942
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:52,840
you know, I don't know, John Ware, you with Chris

943
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:54,039
Reeve and Henry Cavick.

944
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:58,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's I mean, there's a reason why I think

945
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:03,320
the Superman, the Christopher Reeve Superman has been, has shown

946
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,480
up in other places and has influenced so many other things.

947
00:44:06,559 --> 00:44:09,960
Is it's just it's the iconic portrayal of Superman. He

948
00:44:10,039 --> 00:44:12,559
kind of embodies the qualities that you would expect from

949
00:44:12,599 --> 00:44:16,079
a Superman in all the performances I've ever seen him in.

950
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,679
He's always genuine, he's always charming. He is I mean,

951
00:44:19,679 --> 00:44:22,719
he's a tall guy. So you've got someone who is

952
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,880
an imposing physical figure, even if he's not even if

953
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,239
he's not bulked up, he's an imposing physical figure and

954
00:44:30,159 --> 00:44:31,800
he's kind of I don't want to call him a

955
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:33,920
gentle giant, but at the same time, he's kind of

956
00:44:34,599 --> 00:44:37,239
he's he's got all those qualities about him. And I

957
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,199
think when you look at what makes a Superman, if

958
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,639
if you're going to be Superman, and if you're going

959
00:44:42,679 --> 00:44:45,719
to be you know this this character that is supposed

960
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:47,760
to be kind of infallible when it comes to your

961
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:51,840
optimism and your you know, your your generosity and kindness

962
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,639
towards other people, I think you get somebody that embodies

963
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:56,320
all of those things. And I think that's what Christopher

964
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,800
Reef did. I think that's why you have a show

965
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,559
like Smallville. When small did everything that they were doing

966
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:04,920
for the Superman mythology, that's why they brought him in.

967
00:45:05,079 --> 00:45:07,679
I think that's why they tied so much of their

968
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:12,000
mythology to those movies and to you know, to that Krypton.

969
00:45:12,119 --> 00:45:14,559
And you know, you brought in Terrence Stamp as the

970
00:45:14,639 --> 00:45:17,159
voice of Darrell, you brought you actually brought in Christopher Reeve,

971
00:45:17,199 --> 00:45:19,920
you brought in Margot Kidder, you know, all those things

972
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:25,119
because for an entire generation, that was your Superman. I

973
00:45:25,119 --> 00:45:26,880
can look at Henry Cavill and could be like, well, okay,

974
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:28,519
that was the guy that was in Count of Money, Cristo,

975
00:45:28,639 --> 00:45:30,400
and he was in Superman and he was Man of

976
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,559
Steel and he did this, and he was in the

977
00:45:32,559 --> 00:45:34,760
Tutor's TV show, and you know, I know a bunch

978
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:36,559
of things he's been in. But the moment I look

979
00:45:36,599 --> 00:45:39,280
at Christopher Reeve that Superman, you know, in terms of

980
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,199
Henry Cavill, his Superman is good. I really like his

981
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,519
Clark Kent. In fact, I like his Clark Kent better

982
00:45:45,639 --> 00:45:47,719
I think than I liked the Christopher Reeve Clark Kent.

983
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:53,400
Now that's that's right, and that's yeah. And that's me

984
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,360
looking at it from an adult perspective, because as a kid,

985
00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:00,119
I was like, oh, Clark Kent's funny, that's hilarious. Of

986
00:46:00,159 --> 00:46:02,639
the years, as I've read more comic books, as I've

987
00:46:02,679 --> 00:46:05,320
read more stories, and I've seen the TV shows like

988
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:09,480
Smallville and some of the other iterations, is you've got

989
00:46:09,519 --> 00:46:11,639
a Clark Kent that he doesn't have to put on

990
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,000
quite as much of a show. He doesn't have to

991
00:46:14,039 --> 00:46:17,159
be nerdy, he doesn't have to be a bumbling oaf.

992
00:46:17,679 --> 00:46:20,679
Speaker 2: Same guy like Clark Kent is Superman with Henry Cavill,

993
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,920
They're the same. It's it is the Clark Kent story

994
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,960
and Clark Kent's discovery of who he is without any

995
00:46:28,039 --> 00:46:31,840
kind of idea that I need to have an alterna identity.

996
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,400
His whole life has had to keep his power as

997
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,960
a secret, and it just plays into that whole idea.

998
00:46:38,199 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 4: What's interesting is in the last couple of months in

999
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,760
the Superman comics, Superman came out, had a press release

1000
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:44,119
and said, Hey, I just want to let the entire

1001
00:46:44,119 --> 00:46:47,320
world know I'm Clark Kent and I'm married to Lois Lane,

1002
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:49,280
and so in the comics he has revealed that to

1003
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,800
the world because he spent the last couple months in

1004
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:53,800
the comics being like, you know what, I always tell people,

1005
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,920
I'm fighting for truth and justice in the American way,

1006
00:46:57,079 --> 00:46:59,039
but I'm lying to people all the time when I

1007
00:46:59,079 --> 00:47:01,480
have this you know these on and I'm pretending to

1008
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,519
be somebody else. That's not very truthful. So he made

1009
00:47:04,519 --> 00:47:06,119
the decision. He's like, you know what I'm gonna I'm

1010
00:47:06,119 --> 00:47:07,840
gonna I'm gonna do this. We'll see how it goes.

1011
00:47:08,039 --> 00:47:09,920
But I want to embody that truth, and so he

1012
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,199
did that. So that'll be kind of interesting to see

1013
00:47:12,199 --> 00:47:14,639
how that all plays out in the comics, but it

1014
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,119
kind of goes along. You've seen the progression for years

1015
00:47:17,159 --> 00:47:20,280
where there's much less of a difference between that Clark

1016
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,960
and that Superman persona. So yeah, I mean, I really

1017
00:47:23,039 --> 00:47:26,079
like Henry Cavill's Clark Kent. I do still like Christopher

1018
00:47:26,079 --> 00:47:28,880
reeve Clark Kent as well, but I think just comparing

1019
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,880
the two, Christopher Reeve is much more of the Superman

1020
00:47:32,119 --> 00:47:33,559
that I think of when I think of Superman, and

1021
00:47:33,599 --> 00:47:35,880
Henry Cavill maybe did a little bit of a better

1022
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,119
job at the Clark Kent that I want to see.

1023
00:47:39,639 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about Lewis. Okay, So in Superman

1024
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:47,239
movies we had Margot Kidder and in Man of Steel

1025
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,559
we had Amy Adams. I'm gonna go to bat for

1026
00:47:49,639 --> 00:47:50,639
Margot Kidder real quick.

1027
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 3: Okay, before okay, here's the thing with her people kind

1028
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:56,920
of I know how I feel about her sex appeal.

1029
00:47:58,039 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 2: It's not great. I feel weird just saying those two

1030
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,079
words in the same sentence. But you know what, if

1031
00:48:04,119 --> 00:48:06,960
you go back to Superman one she's kind of cute,

1032
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,800
she's she's a pretty lady. She's she's attractive.

1033
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean she had done Playboy.

1034
00:48:12,119 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 2: I mean you know, I mean, they don't put ugly

1035
00:48:14,039 --> 00:48:21,199
people in Playboy. Really. Yeah, good search. But she did

1036
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:23,320
such a good job with the character.

1037
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,199
Speaker 3: Particularly for me, the scene at the end of Superman

1038
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:31,760
two where she's sobbing. Yeah, and she's selling not only

1039
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,199
is she crying, but she's been crying all night. You know,

1040
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:37,920
it's it's the great sadness realization of I can't express

1041
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,599
my feelings. I can't be in this relationship. It's not

1042
00:48:40,679 --> 00:48:43,599
going to work. That whole scene was wonderful.

1043
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,199
Speaker 2: I thought, Right, it's a little weird that it happens

1044
00:48:46,199 --> 00:48:51,840
on like the morning after the first night, but yes, otherwise, yes, I.

1045
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:53,639
Speaker 3: Can't wait to dive into the superkiss here in a

1046
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:57,360
But for me, Margot Kinder did a did a great

1047
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:02,400
job with what she had. Some personal circumstances caused her

1048
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,719
to look less appealing as the series went.

1049
00:49:05,599 --> 00:49:10,360
Speaker 2: On, right, but you know that I liked her. Yeah,

1050
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,920
she she was. She was great because right off the bat,

1051
00:49:14,079 --> 00:49:17,880
she's got this kind of Catherine Hepburn asque tough girl

1052
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:22,800
reporter you know, her interactions with Perry White. She she

1053
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:26,039
knows she's number one in the show. She knows she's

1054
00:49:26,039 --> 00:49:29,360
the bomb, and so yeah, I really dug that about her.

1055
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,320
And then you juxtapose that with how she turns into

1056
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:35,679
this kind of awkward high school girl whenever she meets

1057
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:37,480
Superman on the balcony for the first time.

1058
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 3: I don't know I like her, I don't. Okay, I'm

1059
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:44,360
just gonna say this. There are not many women in

1060
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:46,719
this world that I would give up the ability to

1061
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:51,280
fly to be with. Okay, Margot Kidder is definitely not

1062
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:55,079
on that list. No, Lois Lane is not on that list.

1063
00:49:55,199 --> 00:49:57,519
Speaker 2: No, I don't. Yeah, that's that's tough.

1064
00:49:57,840 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, every man I know would love to the ability

1065
00:50:00,079 --> 00:50:00,400
to fly.

1066
00:50:00,519 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 2: I say, I don't even still to day, I still

1067
00:50:03,519 --> 00:50:05,480
don't know why he gave it up. We still don't know.

1068
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,519
He didn't have to and she didn't ask him to. Yeah, okay,

1069
00:50:09,599 --> 00:50:13,719
So Amy Adams. Amy Adams kind of has the same

1070
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:17,000
type of thing as Christopher Reeve does, where she, to me,

1071
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:22,400
is automatically likable like you just she she comes in

1072
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,239
and she's tough, tough in a different kind of way.

1073
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:29,320
But I mean, we're keeping this radio clean. So I

1074
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,199
can't say my favorite first line. But if we're done

1075
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:36,440
measuring these, then then we can move on. And I

1076
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:40,159
loved her tough attitude and I loved how they played

1077
00:50:40,199 --> 00:50:42,559
off of that of she's got sub gumption, she's got

1078
00:50:42,559 --> 00:50:45,639
some toughness about her. And she has that same attitude

1079
00:50:45,639 --> 00:50:49,039
with Arry White, of hey I'm the number one around

1080
00:50:49,039 --> 00:50:51,760
here and don't mess with me. I like it. But again,

1081
00:50:52,199 --> 00:50:55,360
she can be vulnerable and she's just a very nice

1082
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:56,559
looking waiting Yeah.

1083
00:50:56,639 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 4: I think for me, between the two lowess lanes, it

1084
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:01,880
kind of comes to you. Guys have already kind of

1085
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:04,360
mentioned a little bits. You know, as a kid, I

1086
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:06,000
wasn't thinking about a whole lot of stuff. I just

1087
00:51:06,039 --> 00:51:08,000
you know, this Margot Killer she was the lowest lane

1088
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,880
that was in the movie. I'm like, okay, that's lowest line.

1089
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:14,400
But you know, having seen several iterations of lois now

1090
00:51:14,519 --> 00:51:18,440
in TV shows, comic books, cartoons, whatnot, you know, I

1091
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:21,400
think it comes down to again when I see Margot

1092
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:25,119
Kitterer for a generation, she was lowest lane Amy Adams. Though,

1093
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:26,920
when I look at it in terms of a character,

1094
00:51:27,039 --> 00:51:29,360
Margot Kidder had that kind of that toughness. You know,

1095
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,280
she had some of that tenacity that you would expect

1096
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,840
from a female reporter. But when it really comes down

1097
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:36,559
to it in terms of a character, like you know,

1098
00:51:36,599 --> 00:51:39,360
what if if somebody likes Superman, somebody who's supposed to

1099
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:43,760
have an unflappable sense of character and kindness and all

1100
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:47,119
these different things, I cannot realistically see him falling for

1101
00:51:47,199 --> 00:51:50,519
the personality of the Margot Kidder Lowis Lane. I could

1102
00:51:50,559 --> 00:51:53,000
see him falling for the personality of the Amy Adams

1103
00:51:53,199 --> 00:51:56,800
Lowest Lane. Absolutely no, She's not only is she fiery

1104
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,480
and tenacious and all of those things that you would

1105
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:03,800
have to be, but she's also kind. She's also she's

1106
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:07,440
smart and generous. She's smart, yeah, and I just don't

1107
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,440
and she doesn't treat him like crap.

1108
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 2: The Margot Kidder Lois Lane falls in love with Superman

1109
00:52:14,119 --> 00:52:17,880
and almost in lust with Superman and treats Clark Kent

1110
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,280
like crap and disregards him throughout the movie like there's

1111
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:25,199
no inkling whatsoever that she has any feelings beyond friendship

1112
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:29,039
for Clark Kent. In Man of Steel, Lois Lane falls

1113
00:52:29,079 --> 00:52:31,599
in love with Clark Kent. She doesn't fall in love

1114
00:52:31,599 --> 00:52:34,119
with Superman. I mean, she's met him and has seen

1115
00:52:34,159 --> 00:52:39,119
his powers briefly, but it is his story as Clark

1116
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:43,320
Kent about why he has to remain quiet about his

1117
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:48,199
powers that moves her, and it is and it's his

1118
00:52:48,639 --> 00:52:52,000
sacrifice later on, and that one is Superman that I

1119
00:52:52,039 --> 00:52:54,280
think causes her to fall in love with him. Is

1120
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,400
this understanding of where he is, And to me, that's

1121
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:02,119
a much better romantic story then Oh, I'm enamored by

1122
00:53:02,119 --> 00:53:04,480
a superhero and kind of losing control myself.

1123
00:53:04,559 --> 00:53:06,079
Speaker 4: Well, and I almost don't want to take it to

1124
00:53:06,119 --> 00:53:08,559
this kind of extreme. And I'm going to say this,

1125
00:53:08,599 --> 00:53:10,599
but I'm not really calling her this. It's almost like

1126
00:53:10,639 --> 00:53:12,880
Margot Killer. Lewis Lane is a gold digger, you know,

1127
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:15,480
she sees somebody with power and she's like, oh my god.

1128
00:53:15,639 --> 00:53:17,480
And then even when he says things like yeah, you know,

1129
00:53:17,559 --> 00:53:19,920
I never lie, and she's like, are you kidding? Really,

1130
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:23,400
that's ridiculous. Everybody lies, Whereas Amy Adams one of my

1131
00:53:23,519 --> 00:53:27,280
favorite I think the indication of just how she feels

1132
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,079
about this man is when she's sitting down across the

1133
00:53:30,079 --> 00:53:32,599
table from him and he's got the handcuffs on and

1134
00:53:32,639 --> 00:53:35,639
she's like, why did you let them handcuff you, and

1135
00:53:35,679 --> 00:53:37,719
he's like, well, you know, if it helps him feel better,

1136
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:39,719
And just the little smile that she gives him at

1137
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,719
that point, it's like she loves his humility, Like she

1138
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:45,000
knows what he's capable of, she knows the power that

1139
00:53:45,039 --> 00:53:47,480
he's that he's got. But he's sitting there in handcuffs

1140
00:53:47,679 --> 00:53:49,199
and she I mean like that. You can see the

1141
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,079
look on her face, and just that little hint of

1142
00:53:51,079 --> 00:53:53,559
a smile that she gives. It's like you can tell

1143
00:53:53,599 --> 00:53:56,000
she's falling in love with this guy because he's humble.

1144
00:54:02,079 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 3: All right, Well, let's talk about for me, one of

1145
00:54:05,039 --> 00:54:08,840
the most interesting characters is Zod. So Terrence Stamp is

1146
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:13,159
General Zod in Superman one and two, and you compare

1147
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:15,559
him to Michael Shannon, who is Zodd and Man of Steel.

1148
00:54:15,599 --> 00:54:18,039
Speaker 2: What do you guys think on that one? So Terrence

1149
00:54:18,079 --> 00:54:21,039
Stamp took some recruiting, just like many of the actors

1150
00:54:21,119 --> 00:54:23,639
whenever that first movie was coming out, because the idea

1151
00:54:24,199 --> 00:54:27,599
of being a superhero having a superhero movie was not

1152
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:31,480
exciting to anybody. But as it turned out, Richard Donner

1153
00:54:31,519 --> 00:54:37,440
found out that Stamp had been studying transcendental meditation stamp

1154
00:54:37,599 --> 00:54:40,000
just so that if anybody doesn't know the history, he's

1155
00:54:40,079 --> 00:54:44,199
obviously an incredible actor. But he had he had gotten nominated,

1156
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:46,239
maybe won the Oscar for Billy Bud went back in

1157
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:50,039
the sixties and then what is kind of a I

1158
00:54:50,079 --> 00:54:51,920
don't know that they had People magazine back then, but

1159
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:53,639
he was kind of the guy who was always out

1160
00:54:53,639 --> 00:54:57,920
on the town and doing disco and living the actor life.

1161
00:54:57,960 --> 00:54:58,840
He loved the nightlife.

1162
00:54:59,039 --> 00:55:03,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, he liked a boogey, so he must have. They

1163
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:05,679
must not have needed their wardrobe department to bring his

1164
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:07,480
Zod costume. Maybe he already had that for.

1165
00:55:08,559 --> 00:55:12,840
Speaker 2: He supplied all three of the criminals with their nightlife costume.

1166
00:55:13,119 --> 00:55:16,400
And so anyway they got him on. He said that

1167
00:55:17,119 --> 00:55:19,519
he did not want to give layers to this character,

1168
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:24,239
like he just wanted him to be a straightforward evil,

1169
00:55:25,079 --> 00:55:31,880
you know, no complexity, nothing. This is just a bad guy.

1170
00:55:32,079 --> 00:55:32,360
Speaker 4: I thought.

1171
00:55:32,519 --> 00:55:34,679
Speaker 2: I loved Zod in one and two.

1172
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 3: He has some funny lines, like when the police siren

1173
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:39,480
pulls up or the police car pulls up, and he's like,

1174
00:55:39,519 --> 00:55:41,880
the red light reminds me of the red crypton sun.

1175
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:45,159
I love it, except for the irritating noise, you know.

1176
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:52,760
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, I like him. I do think that Michael

1177
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:53,880
Shannon does a good job.

1178
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 3: In fact, there's one line in Man of Steel when

1179
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:01,320
they're carrying them away and they're on Krypton and he's

1180
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,320
looking at Superman's mom and he's.

1181
00:56:04,199 --> 00:56:08,199
Speaker 2: Like, I will find him. I will find him.

1182
00:56:08,079 --> 00:56:10,920
Speaker 3: And he starts speaking with more and more conviction, and

1183
00:56:11,199 --> 00:56:14,519
that last that last thing where he says I will

1184
00:56:14,679 --> 00:56:18,000
find him, and I'm like, man, that one kind.

1185
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:18,320
Speaker 2: Of shook me.

1186
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:21,880
Speaker 3: That that dude looked intense. So I think they did

1187
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,960
both both did a good job. I'm more partial to

1188
00:56:25,039 --> 00:56:28,159
Terrence Stamp just just because, but I thought Michael Shannon

1189
00:56:28,199 --> 00:56:28,480
was great.

1190
00:56:28,679 --> 00:56:32,639
Speaker 4: Where you were, well, actually the you mentioned that line

1191
00:56:32,679 --> 00:56:35,079
that I will find him. There was a podcast that

1192
00:56:35,119 --> 00:56:36,400
I used to listen to a lot and it was

1193
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:38,199
kind of actually what what got me started and wanting

1194
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:40,599
to do a podcast. It was called Geek out Loud

1195
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:44,519
and the host his name Steve and he lives in

1196
00:56:44,599 --> 00:56:46,800
Georgia and east to have a radio show. He was

1197
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:50,199
actually on like on the air radio and uh, he

1198
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:51,800
would kind of have some of the people that would

1199
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:53,880
listen to him would send in fake commercials sometimes kind

1200
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:55,719
of like what you'd see on Saturday Night Live, where

1201
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:57,880
they come up with a fake ad for something. And

1202
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:00,519
so around about the time that man, Yeah I might run,

1203
00:57:00,519 --> 00:57:03,360
about the time that Man of Steel came out, I

1204
00:57:03,519 --> 00:57:06,679
put together a fake commercial for his radio show, and

1205
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:10,320
it was oh god. It was called like General Zod's

1206
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:12,920
Love Codex, and it was supposed to be like this,

1207
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:16,519
It's supposed to be like this dating service. And you know,

1208
00:57:16,559 --> 00:57:18,960
I had you know, I had my sister like pretend

1209
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:20,480
like she was one of the people calling into the

1210
00:57:20,519 --> 00:57:23,639
dating service and and all this other stuff. But the

1211
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:25,920
final line of the dating service like if there's someone

1212
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:27,920
out there for you, And then we had Zod screaming,

1213
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:28,920
I will find him.

1214
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:32,639
Speaker 2: That's great man.

1215
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 4: Now, I and some of this too. I I can't,

1216
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,719
you know, say what I said before about having watched

1217
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,440
these movies with my dad, you know Superman too. This

1218
00:57:41,559 --> 00:57:44,920
was this was something that just I cannot separate the

1219
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:47,000
experience of watching this with my dad and how much

1220
00:57:47,039 --> 00:57:51,360
my dad loved Superman too. And I think this was

1221
00:57:51,519 --> 00:57:54,039
this became the vocabulary of our house. You know. If

1222
00:57:54,039 --> 00:57:56,920
I did something and it was it was something stupid

1223
00:57:57,079 --> 00:57:58,920
or something my dad had told me not to do.

1224
00:57:59,679 --> 00:58:03,639
His raise was not wrong again, zud You know it

1225
00:58:03,719 --> 00:58:06,519
was that was constant in our house or you know,

1226
00:58:06,559 --> 00:58:08,320
he would you know, he'd be playing around with us.

1227
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:09,960
He'd be like, no, he's like, you got to listen

1228
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:10,440
to me, Neil.

1229
00:58:10,519 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 3: At least he didn't say, why do you say this

1230
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:15,360
to me when you know I will kill you for it.

1231
00:58:18,159 --> 00:58:20,199
Speaker 4: I think he might have the first time I asked

1232
00:58:20,199 --> 00:58:25,199
to borrow the car, you know, So, I mean it's again,

1233
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:29,199
it's like it's like Christopher Reeves Superman. This zod Is

1234
00:58:29,199 --> 00:58:32,119
is larger than life, like he's he's very two dimensional.

1235
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:35,400
So yes, it's not he's your he doesn't you know,

1236
00:58:35,599 --> 00:58:39,440
it's your mustache twirling villain. It's your you know, it's

1237
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:42,199
you mentioned Dracula before. It's like your old school nineteen

1238
00:58:42,239 --> 00:58:45,840
thirties Dracula. Like, there's no complexity to this character. It's

1239
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:47,840
just a bad guy. It's a classic bad guy for

1240
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:50,039
the sake of being a bad guy. And I think

1241
00:58:50,119 --> 00:58:52,800
in a movie of this kind, that's what makes him great. Now.

1242
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:56,800
Having said that, Michael Shannon, that brings, he brings the complexity.

1243
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,280
Like I when I saw that and I saw his

1244
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:01,800
take on zod I'm like, you know what I, oh,

1245
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,239
they're doing Sod is the villain. Why they aren't did

1246
00:59:04,239 --> 00:59:07,239
it right the first time, But now watching watching this one,

1247
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:09,280
actually I might have to take that back a little bit.

1248
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:14,280
He is a phenomenal Sod. Yes, there's no way around this.

1249
00:59:14,639 --> 00:59:18,760
The fact that he brought to this movie a motivation

1250
00:59:19,199 --> 00:59:22,719
that had you almost I mean you were you were conflicted,

1251
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:24,519
and I think that was what was great about it

1252
00:59:24,599 --> 00:59:28,039
was they wanted kal El to be conflicted, like, oh, well,

1253
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:30,440
I've never known any of my people. Well now my

1254
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:33,360
people are here and they don't seem to be such

1255
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:36,760
great people, but you know, I Kryptonian. We got to

1256
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:39,400
keep the Kryptonian thing going. So maybe I should be

1257
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:42,079
Maybe I should be aligning with these people. Maybe I shouldn't.

1258
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:44,239
And there's that, there's that kind of push and pull

1259
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:46,519
in the movie. And I think that just that backstory

1260
00:59:46,559 --> 00:59:49,639
of Zod being like, look, I was raised to defend

1261
00:59:49,679 --> 00:59:53,119
my people and on Krypton. Whatever you're raised to be,

1262
00:59:53,239 --> 00:59:55,559
that's what you are, and you don't deviate. You know,

1263
00:59:55,599 --> 00:59:58,400
that's built into the fabric of our culture and our society.

1264
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:01,960
You don't deviate from that, don't change from that. And

1265
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:06,199
I think his Zod bringing that to such a desperation

1266
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:07,800
when it gets to the point at the end of

1267
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:09,800
the movie where you know a lot of his people

1268
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:12,239
are now gone, and he even says that he's like,

1269
01:00:12,559 --> 01:00:16,440
I am here to defend my people, and now because

1270
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:19,360
of you, I have no people. And then I remember

1271
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:23,159
taking my soul, right, You've taken my reason for being.

1272
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:25,800
And I remember watching that and just thinking as I'm

1273
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:29,079
watching this in the theater, going, oh, dear Lord, you

1274
01:00:29,159 --> 01:00:32,440
have left this man desperate and without anything else to lose.

1275
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:34,760
Now he's going to be like even worse than he

1276
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:36,880
ever was before because you have pushed him to the

1277
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:39,119
edge up until that point. You could almost watch it.

1278
01:00:39,159 --> 01:00:41,000
He's one of those villains where you're like, all right,

1279
01:00:41,039 --> 01:00:44,400
so he's a bad guy, but like, I get why

1280
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:46,199
he's doing it. I wouldn't do it, but I get

1281
01:00:46,199 --> 01:00:48,800
why he's doing it. And I think that was just

1282
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:52,000
that was an amazing take on the character of Zod,

1283
01:00:52,039 --> 01:00:54,840
And so I think part of that it's a little

1284
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:56,760
bit tough because it is it's a little bit of

1285
01:00:56,760 --> 01:00:59,800
an apples and Oranges kind of thing. Is there's always

1286
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:03,039
a place in time for a good two dimensional mustache

1287
01:01:03,079 --> 01:01:06,079
twirling cackling villain, but there's also a good time and

1288
01:01:06,119 --> 01:01:08,920
a place for wow, like this is a villain, like

1289
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:10,840
this is the kind of villain you can sink your

1290
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:11,280
teeth into.

1291
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:15,239
Speaker 2: So the you know, the you look at the motivations

1292
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:18,559
in both of the stories, the Superman one and two story,

1293
01:01:19,079 --> 01:01:23,039
Zod's motivation is tyranny. I mean, he wants to rain

1294
01:01:23,199 --> 01:01:26,039
on high from the beginning. That's what gets him in

1295
01:01:26,039 --> 01:01:29,280
trouble in the first place, is that he's he's trying

1296
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:32,400
to take over control of Krypton. And then ultimately when

1297
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:34,679
he gets to Earth and Scremint two, that's his whole

1298
01:01:34,719 --> 01:01:38,000
goal is to take it over. And then when he finds,

1299
01:01:38,239 --> 01:01:39,920
you know, when he finds out that the son of

1300
01:01:40,039 --> 01:01:43,599
Correaul lives, then he's he's bent on having his revenge.

1301
01:01:43,639 --> 01:01:46,840
But these are all very vice motives. I mean, there's

1302
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:49,920
nothing redeeming about any of the motives that he has.

1303
01:01:50,239 --> 01:01:53,800
But with the way they wrote Zod and Man of Steel,

1304
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:57,920
Krypton has got this kind of brave New World type

1305
01:01:58,119 --> 01:02:02,760
of system where people are no longer birthed naturally but

1306
01:02:03,119 --> 01:02:08,119
created in a big chamber, and each person is created

1307
01:02:08,159 --> 01:02:12,119
with a specific job in mind and Zod's specific job

1308
01:02:12,559 --> 01:02:16,480
is to protect Krypton in the Kryptonian people, and he's

1309
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:21,920
he follows the leadership until such time as he realizes, Hey,

1310
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:26,559
they're now bureaucrats and they're causing the death of the

1311
01:02:26,559 --> 01:02:30,000
people that it is my duty to defend. And to

1312
01:02:30,719 --> 01:02:33,079
see that kind of passion behind it, I had to

1313
01:02:33,239 --> 01:02:35,079
I had to go, well, you know, what if I

1314
01:02:35,119 --> 01:02:38,800
was in this situation, what if I had no familiarity

1315
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:43,320
with this other race of people. My one job was

1316
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:46,599
to protect my people. I mean, you got to think

1317
01:02:46,599 --> 01:02:49,760
of it like your family. You know. If I could

1318
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:53,679
bring back my family from annihilation and what it took

1319
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:55,920
was getting rid of a family that I didn't know,

1320
01:02:56,559 --> 01:02:59,800
could I see myself doing that? Yeah? Maybe?

1321
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:00,039
Speaker 4: So.

1322
01:03:00,199 --> 01:03:02,599
Speaker 3: I read a whole article about how General Zod is

1323
01:03:02,599 --> 01:03:04,199
actually the good guy in Man of Steel.

1324
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:09,199
Speaker 2: All right, everybody that does it? For part one of

1325
01:03:09,239 --> 01:03:11,519
the podcast, please join us. Next week we will have

1326
01:03:11,639 --> 01:03:15,039
John back and we will be discussing the remainder of

1327
01:03:15,119 --> 01:03:18,559
Superman one and Superman two versus Man of Steel. Don't

1328
01:03:18,599 --> 01:03:21,800
forget to go check out the Thirty Somethings podcast, and

1329
01:03:22,039 --> 01:03:25,320
as always, thank you for joining us. All music, images

1330
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:27,719
and movie clips are used for the purposes of commentary

1331
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:28,320
and education.