WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:07.960 Oh he is, folks, it's showtime. 2 00:00:08.679 --> 00:00:10.560 People say, good money to see this movie. 3 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:13.560 When they go out to a theater, they want cold sodas, 4 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:17.199 hot popcorn, and no monsters in the protection booth. 5 00:00:17.359 --> 00:00:19.519 Everyone for tend. Podcasting isn't boring. 6 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:20.879 Don it off. 7 00:00:41.159 --> 00:00:46.960 Hiram Jaffi's world is just like yours, a little unreal. 8 00:00:52.079 --> 00:00:55.119 No, you're listening to that nooise. 9 00:00:56.240 --> 00:01:01.759 Move some people think is about movie. 10 00:01:01.560 --> 00:01:04.239 Like I'm setting something into motion. 11 00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:06.200 Dolly is something I don't understand. 12 00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:11.400 Some people think Moved is about the system breaking down. 13 00:01:15.400 --> 00:01:17.599 Your larger care's no respect for anything. 14 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:22.519 Some people think Move is about today's plastic culture. 15 00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:25.079 What is that? It was? To me? We believe in 16 00:01:25.079 --> 00:01:29.280 a philosophy of joy and laughter, not in self recrimination 17 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:31.079 and rebuke. No shit. 18 00:01:32.879 --> 00:01:36.359 Some people think Moved is about the battle of the sexiest. 19 00:01:40.040 --> 00:01:40.400 Doctor. 20 00:01:40.519 --> 00:01:43.280 I don't think my husband understands me. 21 00:01:43.959 --> 00:01:45.000 Is your wife so nice? 22 00:01:45.079 --> 00:01:45.359 Dream? 23 00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:55.959 Oh Jewish rega, isn't that disgusting? 24 00:01:56.000 --> 00:01:57.079 I don't know what it is. 25 00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:02.120 I haven't made love to Dolly in month's. 26 00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:03.400 God, I think you really are going craggers. 27 00:02:05.040 --> 00:02:11.039 Look and you're better tell me you love me or something. Hey, 28 00:02:11.159 --> 00:02:15.560 look that you've got green paste potsol over your chest. 29 00:02:17.159 --> 00:02:25.599 You've even got it on you. Oh that's kinky. You're 30 00:02:25.599 --> 00:02:26.960 gonna try something funny. 31 00:02:27.319 --> 00:02:31.479 I mt when we start picking up weird balls, I 32 00:02:31.599 --> 00:02:32.879 come for you. 33 00:02:33.039 --> 00:02:35.879 Some people think Move is just an entertaining comedy. 34 00:02:36.319 --> 00:02:37.280 Who is this that? 35 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:39.599 Some people think Move is more than that? 36 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:42.960 Damn it, I don't need this. 37 00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:49.080 In short, some people think, and some people don't, and some. 38 00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:50.800 People just move. 39 00:02:54.680 --> 00:02:56.800 Move the movie with a. 40 00:02:56.759 --> 00:03:09.840 Message, Welcome to the Projection booth. 41 00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:11.840 I'm your host. Mike White joined me once again as 42 00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:13.240 mister mike'sullivant. 43 00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:16.039 Hey, it's great to be back again. The last time 44 00:03:16.719 --> 00:03:18.879 we talked was when we talked about the Finks, and 45 00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:21.400 that was like over four years ago, so it's great 46 00:03:21.439 --> 00:03:22.759 to be back on the podcast. 47 00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:26.800 Got another winner for you, Mike, Always a winner with me. 48 00:03:26.960 --> 00:03:27.599 Yeah yeah. 49 00:03:28.240 --> 00:03:30.639 Also back in the booth is Miss Emily and Travia. 50 00:03:31.479 --> 00:03:32.719 Hey, Hey, good to be best. 51 00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:36.599 Our month of looking at rare, lost or underseen films 52 00:03:36.680 --> 00:03:40.159 continues with one from Stuart Rosenberg nineteen seventies. 53 00:03:40.360 --> 00:03:40.639 Move. 54 00:03:41.080 --> 00:03:44.479 The film stars Elliott Gould as Hiram Jaffy and uptight 55 00:03:44.599 --> 00:03:47.599 Zero Astrian who's about to make him move with his 56 00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:51.120 wife Dally, played by Paul Apprentis, he embarks on White 57 00:03:51.240 --> 00:03:54.120 Might be a fantasy about a girl played by Genevieve 58 00:03:54.199 --> 00:03:58.080 Waite while navigating New York in the late nineteen sixties. 59 00:03:58.639 --> 00:04:01.400 This film was unavailable for decades, so though it can 60 00:04:01.439 --> 00:04:05.000 now be found on the twentieth Century Fox Archive label, 61 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:08.879 I think that it's mostly readily available as a bootleg 62 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:13.560 transfer from a sixteen millimeter archive print which emids some nudity. 63 00:04:13.639 --> 00:04:18.360 I think it might actually be a TV version of it. Ironically, 64 00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:20.279 it's a friend of mine who's been on the show 65 00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:24.199 before who did that transfer, and he will remain nameless, 66 00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:27.000 but that's probably the version that you've seen. So Emily, 67 00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:30.000 was this the first time watch for you? Seeing move? 68 00:04:30.079 --> 00:04:31.000 And what did you think? 69 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:31.319 Ma'am? 70 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:34.560 So one percent of first time watch? And I did 71 00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:36.079 not get any nudity, So I don't know who I 72 00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:38.759 should be mad about it, or that I knew nothing 73 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:41.160 about it going in. And within the first five minutes 74 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:44.079 there was a lot of Oh, this is really relevant 75 00:04:44.120 --> 00:04:46.120 and there are things I connect to here. I am 76 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:49.240 in the middle of moving. I used to live in 77 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:50.959 New York City and I was a dog walker for 78 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:52.959 a period of time back when I was a young 79 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:57.279 woman in my twenties I have, thankfully. That is just 80 00:04:57.279 --> 00:05:00.000 about where the similarities end between me and Elliott Gould. 81 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:03.199 I'm not quite as hairy, and I don't if I 82 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:05.000 was married to Paul the Prentice, I think I would 83 00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:07.120 treat her a little better. But we'll get into all 84 00:05:07.160 --> 00:05:09.959 those details, I'm sure, and might come about yourself. 85 00:05:10.759 --> 00:05:13.319 I found out about Move it was the very first 86 00:05:13.399 --> 00:05:15.319 issue of Shock Cinema I ever picked up, which I 87 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:19.879 think was issue eleven, and that movie is always intertwined 88 00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:26.600 with like Shock Cinema and myself and Steve ripped that 89 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:31.000 movie apart. So it was when did I see that? 90 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:33.720 About ninety seven? So I've been avoiding this movie close 91 00:05:33.759 --> 00:05:37.439 to thirty years. And the only reason I sat down 92 00:05:37.560 --> 00:05:40.480 and watch is because you ask you want to go on? 93 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:42.439 The objection we talk about it is I'm not sure, 94 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:46.720 But that's only way I ever watched it. And it 95 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:50.040 was actually better than I expected, not good, but better 96 00:05:50.079 --> 00:05:50.959 than I expected. 97 00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:54.879 I saw this film years and years ago. I saw 98 00:05:54.879 --> 00:06:00.600 it on that questionable transfer, and I'm like just now 99 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:04.160 seeing the decent print of it, that twenty century fox 100 00:06:04.199 --> 00:06:06.639 but out when I put this on the list. I 101 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:09.879 did not know that this had ever been available, And 102 00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:15.399 I have a search on eBay for Elliott Gould, which 103 00:06:15.439 --> 00:06:18.879 is weird. Flex like, I've been trying to work out 104 00:06:18.920 --> 00:06:21.519 this your Yeah, I've been trying to work on the 105 00:06:21.600 --> 00:06:26.240 book about Ellie Gould since twenty ten, twenty eleven, right 106 00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:29.120 around at the same time that I started up this show. Yeah, 107 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:31.399 just I'm constantly checking for things. And then it was 108 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:36.600 only a month ago that I started to see move 109 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:40.639 On DVD come up on those searches, and I thought, 110 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:44.120 for sure, this is just a bootleg, but no, it's legit. 111 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:46.480 This is a real thing. They actually did put this out. 112 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:51.079 So goes against this month of hard to find films 113 00:06:51.079 --> 00:06:52.639 because now you can buy it. You can get it 114 00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:55.240 right on Amazon, but when you go out and you 115 00:06:55.279 --> 00:06:58.160 look for it, you can still just find tons of 116 00:06:58.160 --> 00:07:01.120 people selling bootlegs of it. It's difficult to even find 117 00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:05.000 the link for the real deal. And then, like I said, 118 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:10.120 I hadn't seen the non sixteen print of it, And 119 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:13.560 so when I read about this movie and was reading 120 00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:16.519 about oh yeah, then Elliott Gould to mention this woman 121 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:19.120 with three breasts, I'm just like, what, what are you 122 00:07:19.160 --> 00:07:22.120 talking about. And then last night when I was rewatching it, 123 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:25.800 and he comes into his apartment and there's his neighbor 124 00:07:25.879 --> 00:07:29.959 lady there Andrey I think her name is, and there's 125 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:33.680 a weird cut, and I was like, Oh, that's probably 126 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:37.920 where the nudity is. He's probably seeing her with three breasts, 127 00:07:37.959 --> 00:07:40.800 but instead it's just her from like the neck up. 128 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:44.040 I'm not sure what all else we're missing. I know 129 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:47.920 somebody talked about some Paul Apprentice boobage as well, but 130 00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:53.680 I'm more concerned about Paul Apprentice's false eyelashes an eye 131 00:07:53.759 --> 00:07:56.120 makeup more than anything else. 132 00:07:56.639 --> 00:08:00.399 In the bath job No last I guess they that 133 00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:02.279 must be some pretty good glue that you put on 134 00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:06.560 for that kind of thing. But it's impressive. Now that 135 00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:10.319 you say that about the editing for nudity, I feel 136 00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:12.800 like that also makes the version I saw it gives 137 00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:14.519 it a little bit of a pass on some things 138 00:08:14.959 --> 00:08:17.040 because the pacing, and I think this is probably the 139 00:08:17.079 --> 00:08:20.720 biggest issue the film has, because there's things I really 140 00:08:20.759 --> 00:08:23.480 like about it. It's different, it's weird. It is a 141 00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:24.959 movie that when it I think when you get to 142 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:27.399 that final scene, it makes you want to go back 143 00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:30.319 and rewatch it with a completely different view of what 144 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:33.960 you're actually seeing. But throughout I think there's this issue 145 00:08:34.039 --> 00:08:40.559 of tone and pace and understanding exactly what you're supposed to. 146 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:43.159 It's not even just oh, what's real? What's fantasy? 147 00:08:44.200 --> 00:08:44.519 Is this fun? 148 00:08:44.600 --> 00:08:47.159 He shouldn't be left figure? Is this going onlong? 149 00:08:47.240 --> 00:08:47.399 Is that? 150 00:08:47.559 --> 00:08:48.320 Is it intentional? 151 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:48.559 Too? 152 00:08:48.840 --> 00:08:50.480 And some of that now I wonder some of it 153 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:52.639 could have just been a lot of editing choices that 154 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:55.639 had to get made because of Mpalea and such. 155 00:08:56.519 --> 00:08:58.919 My issue with the film was I could never tell 156 00:08:59.240 --> 00:09:01.919 if we're supposed to be gold side or we're supposed 157 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:05.360 to consider him an asshole and a joke. It seems 158 00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:07.559 like the film can never like that one scene with 159 00:09:07.639 --> 00:09:11.960 him and Jenevieve Wait where they're having like this, the film, 160 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:14.679 I feel like film thinks it's a deep conversation, but 161 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:20.240 it's just two like insufferable morons born lay deep thoughts, 162 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:24.039 two like college kids just try and impress each other. 163 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:26.559 And actually that's the one part where I'm just like, 164 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:30.360 I think I hate this movie. I was on the 165 00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:34.240 fence and then that scene I was just like, oh, christ. 166 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:37.000 I think that's a really good point. And that was definitely. 167 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:39.320 In the beginning of the film. The problem I had 168 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:42.840 with it was just this very basic and part of 169 00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:45.960 it is knowing, Okay, it's nineteen seventy, so it's these 170 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:48.000 are the movies we're making, right, We're making movies about 171 00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:52.720 like men going through midlife crisis, and that's gonna always happen, 172 00:09:52.759 --> 00:09:54.480 but it's going to evolve a little differently. And it's 173 00:09:54.519 --> 00:09:56.120 something that I know. For me coming to a movie 174 00:09:56.159 --> 00:09:59.600 like this, immediately I'm like, dude, you're married to Paul Apprentice, 175 00:09:59.720 --> 00:10:03.480 who awesome, who is funny, who is sexy, who is gorgeous, 176 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:05.919 who seems to be able to handle you like, you 177 00:10:06.440 --> 00:10:08.799 have a good apartment, you have a dog. There's a 178 00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:11.919 lot about it that you're just like, oh, insufferable in 179 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:15.320 terms of this sort of I don't I'm not gonna 180 00:10:15.320 --> 00:10:17.480 feel bad for you or feel good when you're now 181 00:10:17.519 --> 00:10:20.720 maybe cheating on your wife. But I feel and I 182 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:23.440 don't know that the movie gave it that support or 183 00:10:23.480 --> 00:10:25.799 if it just in my brain. I had to make 184 00:10:25.879 --> 00:10:30.679 the decision that no, we're not supposed to I think 185 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:34.519 I at least for me, it never felt like I'm 186 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:38.480 supposed to feel bad for him, and root for him 187 00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:40.919 to get there. It felt more like, oh, no, we 188 00:10:41.039 --> 00:10:44.279 know he even he knows that he's ridiculous for feeling 189 00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:46.720 all these things that he's He looks at his wife 190 00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:49.200 and he knows, I don't dessert like I don't. I 191 00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:52.039 can't have sex with you. That's my problem, not you know, 192 00:10:52.159 --> 00:10:55.720 I'm not yours. And I think once you, like the 193 00:10:55.759 --> 00:10:58.080 audience member, make the decision that the film isn't on 194 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:00.000 his side necessarily, it's much more enjoyable. 195 00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:02.679 Yeah, yeah, I can see that, and yeah, I can 196 00:11:02.919 --> 00:11:06.000 agree with you that. I think somewhere inside of himself, 197 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:08.639 he does know that he's being ridiculous. He does know 198 00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:12.759 that he's just such a martyr for so much of 199 00:11:12.799 --> 00:11:17.159 this and just going through this midlife crisis. And she 200 00:11:17.320 --> 00:11:19.320 wants to have a baby. I don't want to have 201 00:11:19.360 --> 00:11:21.639 a baby. There's no way that I'm ready to have 202 00:11:21.720 --> 00:11:25.000 a baby. And pry my best to get these plays 203 00:11:25.039 --> 00:11:28.600 sold and no one is buying my work, and instead 204 00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:32.320 I have to write pornography is what his profession is. 205 00:11:32.759 --> 00:11:34.960 It took me a while to figure that one out. 206 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:38.120 Yeah, they don't make that easy. It's a guess no. 207 00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:40.039 And that also gives us one of the big clues 208 00:11:40.039 --> 00:11:41.960 towards the end, when you're talking about the Genevieve Weight 209 00:11:42.039 --> 00:11:47.679 scene where it's Paul Apprentice Dolly reading a story and 210 00:11:47.799 --> 00:11:51.320 reading a line about do you know anything about electricity? 211 00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:54.240 And then in the next scene Genevieve Weight comes up 212 00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:57.200 and says the exact same line. I was like, Oh, okay, 213 00:11:57.240 --> 00:12:01.080 we are in this because yeah, there's no line to 214 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:05.200 tell us when we're moving from reality to fantasy. Sometimes 215 00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:07.679 no line when it comes to moving backwards and forwards 216 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:11.320 in time. Boom, were back at his wedding, and then boom, 217 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:15.559 we're out of that, and there's no real signal, no 218 00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:17.720 change in the way that the film looks. 219 00:12:18.679 --> 00:12:22.279 There's no visual cue, there's no sound cue, and it 220 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:24.799 feels like a mistake on the part of the movie 221 00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:27.360 because I think that also, like the reading through some 222 00:12:27.399 --> 00:12:29.159 of the reviews, it was definitely something that turned a 223 00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:33.159 lot of viewers off. There's an element of that I 224 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:35.639 feel like, had it, I don't know how it could 225 00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:38.879 have been done. I don't think that decision was necessarily 226 00:12:38.919 --> 00:12:41.679 the wrong decision. I think you could have done this 227 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:44.799 entire movie still with you never really know what's real 228 00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:46.840 and what's not but it's done in a way where 229 00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:50.519 it's not so abrupt when it pulls back into I 230 00:12:50.559 --> 00:12:52.320 guess that didn't happen, but we're moving on to the 231 00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:55.720 next scene, keep going. So it's just odd choice. And 232 00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:58.360 I know there was something I guess that Elliott could 233 00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:00.759 talked about both in an interview and then from other 234 00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:02.679 things that you can read on It was that it 235 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:07.399 felt like, as it Stuart Rosenberg as the director, that 236 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:12.480 he didn't fully come to this as a comedy with 237 00:13:12.840 --> 00:13:14.480 his mind made of how he wanted to do it. 238 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:16.879 And I guess what they always say about comedy, it's 239 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:20.039 about choice, right you just you commit to this is 240 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:22.080 our sense of humor. This is how we're conveying it. 241 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:26.919 And it's it's hard to know who understood what the 242 00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:30.399 like the line was for where the comedy was. So 243 00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:34.679 it just makes it strange, which I dig as it 244 00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:37.320 kind of this is unlike anything, but it also means 245 00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:38.399 it doesn't quite. 246 00:13:38.200 --> 00:13:41.879 Work, Mike. I know, as I actually was looking at 247 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:45.120 the Goodreads reviews of this today and I know this 248 00:13:45.279 --> 00:13:49.320 you're you're one of them for the So how different 249 00:13:49.759 --> 00:13:51.799 does I should have read the book? I didn't read 250 00:13:51.840 --> 00:13:53.879 the book? How different is the book from the movie. 251 00:13:53.879 --> 00:13:56.399 Does it have the sort of fantasy sequences in the book? 252 00:13:56.519 --> 00:13:57.759 Is that an element in that. 253 00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:01.639 It has been probably decades since I've read it. I 254 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:06.320 started rereading it the other night, and it just feels 255 00:14:06.519 --> 00:14:09.320 very much like this movie. So much of this opening 256 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:13.279 scene you're like, oh, yeah, not the necessarily him getting 257 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:16.519 run over by the steamroller and every The effect that 258 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:18.960 I really like is right at the beginning, when everyone's 259 00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:22.679 moving backwards but he's moving forwards. That kind of stuff 260 00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:23.320 isn't in there. 261 00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:25.759 Yeah, I love that. That's such a great way to 262 00:14:25.799 --> 00:14:26.519 start a movie. 263 00:14:27.159 --> 00:14:30.679 It is. It's really nice. It's so European. That's the 264 00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:33.840 thing about this film. It's just that, like you, I 265 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:36.559 dig the idea of moving back and forth in time 266 00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:41.000 and the fantasy the reality. We've talked about night Porter 267 00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:45.600 or The Conformist or these movies where you just kind 268 00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:48.000 of don't have this sense of time. I can't remember 269 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:51.960 the Italian editor's name that would do that so well. 270 00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:55.000 I think he even worked on like The Passenger, some 271 00:14:55.080 --> 00:14:58.440 Antonioni stuff. But yeah, as far as going back to 272 00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:02.480 the book, I think it's pretty darn similar to it. 273 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:04.200 But yeah, I didn't have a chance to make my 274 00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:06.360 way all the way through. I tried to dig it 275 00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:08.879 out the other night. I found that I've got it 276 00:15:08.919 --> 00:15:14.600 on hard cover. Tried to grab that, and then I remember, oh, yeah, 277 00:15:14.600 --> 00:15:17.519 you also have it on paperback. So I'm an complete 278 00:15:17.519 --> 00:15:20.600 idiot when it comes to having multiple copies of things. 279 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:23.519 So I started reading that paperback the other day, the 280 00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:27.200 one with Golden Prentice on the cover, So that was nice. 281 00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:31.600 But yeah, the hardcover is definitely different design and everything, 282 00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:34.960 and yeah, real tragic story about the writer. 283 00:15:36.039 --> 00:15:39.759 It's easy, I think, to always read into a If 284 00:15:39.799 --> 00:15:43.720 a man writes a novel about a man having a 285 00:15:43.759 --> 00:15:46.840 mid life crisis, it's very hard not to read into 286 00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:49.639 that as Okay, let's make sense, this is what he 287 00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:52.679 was going through. And I did not get a chance 288 00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:54.200 to read a novel, So I don't know how much 289 00:15:54.200 --> 00:15:57.039 of that comes through. It certainly adds an element of 290 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:00.399 weight to it, because you don't I don't. I never 291 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:06.039 felt Hiram was suicidal or was He was suffering definitely 292 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:10.080 from probably depression, anxiety and other things that are just there, 293 00:16:10.200 --> 00:16:13.480 but in a very kind of common man of his 294 00:16:13.559 --> 00:16:16.360 age in New York kind of way. But then when 295 00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:20.960 you have that added knowledge of the author's very set 296 00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:24.440 bad end, it does reframe it a little bit. 297 00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:29.879 He died. I don't remember how soon after this he 298 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:32.240 committed suicide. I should say, not just died, but. 299 00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:35.120 It was a year after the movie came out. It 300 00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:36.080 was seventy one. 301 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:36.600 Yeah. 302 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:39.200 I don't imagine that the bad reviews in the movie 303 00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:40.799 probably helped them out either. 304 00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:45.279 Because it had to be a very personal thing for 305 00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:48.639 if you're a novelist and you've written a novel that 306 00:16:48.759 --> 00:16:52.039 is maybe close to your life. I don't know, but 307 00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:54.120 it feels like it is such an interior this the 308 00:16:54.159 --> 00:16:57.480 movie is so interior, right. This is a man going 309 00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:04.079 through a whole lot of mental gymnastics and worries of 310 00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:07.640 here's my life and I am unhappy and I am this, 311 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:09.240 and I'm not ready for this, and I'm not ready 312 00:17:09.279 --> 00:17:11.680 to be a father, and I'm not ready to move 313 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:15.240 it three blocks down? So then do you have that then 314 00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:19.559 put on screen and then released? From what I understand, 315 00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:23.519 very bad press can't be a good feeling. 316 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:25.880 No, And it felt a little bit like some of 317 00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:29.039 the critics were lying in wait for this. As far 318 00:17:29.079 --> 00:17:31.759 as we are tired of Elliott Gould and I was like, 319 00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:36.160 get ready, folks, because Gould's only made like a handful 320 00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:39.240 of films at this point is his career. You're going 321 00:17:39.319 --> 00:17:41.880 to get a whole lot more Gould here coming forward, 322 00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:44.279 and some of these are going to be a lot 323 00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:45.759 worse than this movie. 324 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:48.720 So what do you think that is? As far as 325 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:53.319 him just being such a success in a mold that 326 00:17:53.880 --> 00:17:57.240 was not typical that he doesn't look he didn't look 327 00:17:57.279 --> 00:17:58.880 like a leading man of that time, but it's that 328 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:01.720 era where you have him and Dustin Hoffmann and other 329 00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:05.519 guys that were not go would not have been matinee 330 00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:09.200 Idols ten years earlier. Was it just a matter of 331 00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:11.920 the press just waiting for a failure? Was it that 332 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:15.599 kind of thing that happens still today? Certainly feels like. 333 00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:18.160 It because I remember Gene Siskel's review was something like, 334 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:21.599 I'm tired of seeing Elliott Gould. And it wasn't even 335 00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:25.640 I'm tired of seeing Elliott Gould play this type of character. 336 00:18:26.359 --> 00:18:28.880 It was just I'm tired of Elliott Gould. I was like, 337 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:30.119 holy shit, Gean. 338 00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:33.519 It'd be so mean, how because at that point it 339 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:36.079 was what it was first, It was like Knight the 340 00:18:36.200 --> 00:18:38.640 Rayed Minsky is the Free Chin. Then it was like 341 00:18:38.680 --> 00:18:42.400 Bob and cheryld' ed Nallie. Then was Mash before this 342 00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:45.160 was it earlier in the year. So there's just how 343 00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:47.799 could you be tired of someone after just three movies? 344 00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:49.799 Plus there was also Getting Straight. 345 00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:51.920 Oh that's right, yeah, yeah. 346 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:54.559 And so yeah, in nineteen seventy he had four movies 347 00:18:54.599 --> 00:18:57.880 come out. He had I Love My Wife, Move, Getting Straight, 348 00:18:57.920 --> 00:18:59.319 and Mash and in. 349 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:02.119 The opposite or was he still married to Barbra Streisand 350 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:03.039 at this time. 351 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:05.960 No, I think that was over by this point. I 352 00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:09.160 think that was over before Bob and Ted, Bob and 353 00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:12.240 Perrel and Ted Analyis. But I'm not sure I think 354 00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:14.839 that ended in sixty eight because. 355 00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:18.039 I wonder how much and the different era obviously, but 356 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:21.240 there was still Page six and there was still the 357 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:26.519 gossip columns magazine on all those things that it should 358 00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:29.680 come with being a movie star as opposed to being 359 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:33.160 just an actor. And I wonder how much of that 360 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:35.839 fed into it, because that's certainly still true today of 361 00:19:35.920 --> 00:19:39.000 if you don't like a celebrity for the way they 362 00:19:39.079 --> 00:19:41.279 dressed on the red carpet, then you're just waiting for 363 00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:43.759 them to make a flop because it makes gives you 364 00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:47.079 that shiten for it that so many were laying in 365 00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:47.559 wait with. 366 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:50.000 Yeah, like me and Timothy Shallamage one. 367 00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:51.559 Day, just wait for it. 368 00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:55.440 For years, I thought this was like the Matilda era, 369 00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:58.720 like the Whiffs era, when it was like the career 370 00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:01.880 was laying the downswing. A year after this, didn't he 371 00:20:01.960 --> 00:20:04.880 do like a Burger movie. So many times I've said 372 00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:08.880 this guy had like a tribolt to ask taste for projects, 373 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:12.119 like an almost self destructive face for projects. But this 374 00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:14.240 was during a period where it was just like every 375 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:16.440 other pretty much every movie. He was like knocking it 376 00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:17.000 out of the barn. 377 00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:20.200 Yes seventy one, you've got the Touch, which you mentioned, 378 00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:23.240 and then you've got Little Murders seventy three, you've got 379 00:20:23.240 --> 00:20:26.200 the long Goodbye that he still has yet to do, 380 00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:30.799 California Split and Let's Together. Real good one back that 381 00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:34.839 I liked. I like Capricorn one. I really love The 382 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:38.519 Silent Partner. But yeah, there's some uneven stuff in there, 383 00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:40.720 like a Bridge too Far. I'm not real hot on 384 00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:44.240 Harry and Walter go to New York. Not my favorite thing, 385 00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:47.279 but they're all interesting though, And they're interesting also in 386 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:49.000 that way that you were talking about Emily when it 387 00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:52.640 comes to just what an atypical leading man he was, 388 00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:56.519 and especially in this movie where he's stripping down to 389 00:20:56.599 --> 00:21:00.279 the buff and just nothing is hidden and you get 390 00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:02.920 to see all that back air, which I don't know 391 00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:04.720 if that was like a thing back then or not, 392 00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:06.480 but I know now it's just like. 393 00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:10.559 I well, remember right, the bur Reynolds playboys around the 394 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:13.240 real playgirls around this time, and then that was probably 395 00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:16.000 another part of it was And I mean, this was 396 00:21:16.039 --> 00:21:18.000 not my era, so I can't speak to him, but 397 00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:21.160 my understanding is he was like a raging sex symbol 398 00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:21.680 at the time. 399 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:25.400 This happens every couple of years, you know what the 400 00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:29.039 mainstream determined sexy changes. But I think you had this 401 00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:32.319